― JasonD (JasonD), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 01:53 (twenty years ago) link
thanks for these threads jason. plenty to check out.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 10:16 (twenty years ago) link
'brown rice' might be my don cherry OPO, and i'm a big fan. the blue note trilogy is fantastic (esp. "symphony for improvisers"), and yeah, i'll second the "escalator over the hill" nod.
'eternal now' hasn't been mentioned yet, so i'll throw it out. it's cherry and the swedes in smaller ensembles, with some piano work and wooden wind instruments. it's a strong step towards the less identifiably "jazz", more uniquely "don cherry" music.
― j fail (cenotaph), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 14:02 (twenty years ago) link
― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 14:06 (twenty years ago) link
You do owe it to yourself to listen to him with Ornette. I have a special fondness for his work on the Complete Science Fiction Sessions, there's some fire on that shit.
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 14:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Brian Turner (btwfmu), Thursday, 10 July 2003 12:20 (twenty years ago) link
― j fail (cenotaph), Thursday, 10 July 2003 13:38 (twenty years ago) link
http://users.northroute.net/~rpepper/celebs/doncherry2.jpg
wait, he plays music too, you say? THIS i gotta hear!
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:47 (twenty years ago) link
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 10 July 2003 14:59 (twenty years ago) link
― Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 10 July 2003 15:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 10 July 2003 15:17 (twenty years ago) link
thee t
― steve duda, Thursday, 10 July 2003 16:04 (twenty years ago) link
― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 10 July 2003 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
― T. Weiss (Timmy), Friday, 11 July 2003 00:36 (twenty years ago) link
the two sets are trios. one is cherry, his wife mocqui on tamboura (ouch) and bennik. the other is cherry, johnny diani and okay tamiz (don't ask, i don't know).
the pieces seem compositionally similar to the "eternal rhythm" and "w/ penderecki" albums but they lack the power of those big groups and also ramble on more. can you imagine mu pts. 1+2 played w/ the E.R.O. (i can't). it doesn't help that the sound uniformly sucks and the percussion is generally pretty flat.
the one bright spot is a 20 minute improv on the "si ta ra ma" vocal chant that's mostly unaccompanied cherry. well, there's a bongo, but damned if i register anything but cherry. sounds dubious, i know, though i love it love it love it.
― vahid (vahid), Friday, 11 July 2003 07:26 (twenty years ago) link
― j fail (cenotaph), Friday, 11 July 2003 13:43 (twenty years ago) link
― rw, Monday, 17 May 2004 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link
― rw, Thursday, 10 June 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link
the albums most similar to humus are "eternal rhythm" and "eternal now" because they feature large ensembles. "orient" is similar in aim but it has a much smaller group of players. because it is a live album though it has similar energy. "mu 1+2" are also similar but it's a duo, and a studio recording, so it's much more meditative and less kinetic than "humus".
"humus" is very similar to pharoah sanders late 60s and early 70s work: "tauhid", "izipho zam", "karma" and "summun bukmun umyun" are definite must-haves. they are more focused and polished than cherry's work but similar in the blend of eastern and western motifs, and the energy playing, and the wild percussion, etc. also check out early alice coltrane (ptah the el daoud, world galaxy, universal consciousness) and maybe late john coltrane (crescent might be a good starting point). possibly even clifford thornton or archie shepp in morocco or even the jazzactuel 3cd reissue sampler box, that may be a good start.
these are similar to "humus" in overall sound but not in the way "humus" uses several different forms over the course of a composition - free playing giving way to funky stuff giving way to an eastern section or a ragtime or whatever. if i remember correctly, that is unique to "humus" in cherry's recordings. so for that angle, maybe check out the early 70s work of the art ensemble of chicago, sun ra, and charlie haden (particularly the liberation music orchestra recording mentioned above).
― vahid (vahid), Friday, 11 June 2004 09:03 (nineteen years ago) link
― vahid (vahid), Friday, 11 June 2004 09:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― rw, Friday, 11 June 2004 14:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 11 June 2004 23:19 (nineteen years ago) link
― nickn (nickn), Friday, 11 June 2004 23:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― JaXoN (JasonD), Saturday, 12 June 2004 06:57 (nineteen years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Saturday, 12 June 2004 06:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― JaXoN (JasonD), Saturday, 12 June 2004 06:58 (nineteen years ago) link
― JaXoN (JasonD), Saturday, 12 June 2004 06:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― Another Allnighter (sexyDancer), Friday, 1 July 2005 14:21 (eighteen years ago) link
Seeing him and his battered pocket trumpet really got me into Ornette and then Jazz in general.
― timberlog (timberlog), Friday, 1 July 2005 19:34 (eighteen years ago) link
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 1 July 2005 21:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Another Allnighter (sexyDancer), Friday, 1 July 2005 21:35 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.mingeringmike.com/images/lps09_20.jpg
http://www.mingeringmike.com/images/lps03_20.jpg
― The Amazing Jaxon! (jaxon), Friday, 1 July 2005 21:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Justin Farrar (Justin Farrar), Saturday, 2 July 2005 00:13 (eighteen years ago) link
Another good'un not mentioned yet: Vibrations, possibly my favourite Albert Ayler record.
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 2 July 2005 10:42 (eighteen years ago) link
More?
― admrl, Friday, 20 July 2007 17:42 (sixteen years ago) link
i may have mentioned this on another Don Cherry thread (or a terry riley thread), but there's a tape of the two of them playing sometime in the mid-70s that is one of the greatest things I've ever heard. it's reallyreallyreally beautiful.
― tylerw, Friday, 20 July 2007 17:55 (sixteen years ago) link
I want that
― admrl, Friday, 20 July 2007 17:58 (sixteen years ago) link
http://davecook.blog-city.com/don_cherry.htm
― jaxon, Friday, 20 July 2007 18:01 (sixteen years ago) link
^ terry riley / don cherry
I love you
― admrl, Friday, 20 July 2007 18:01 (sixteen years ago) link
Is there anything more from that session?
cos it's fucking great.
I've been told to listen to rip rig & panic by a lot of people but haven't got round to it yet.
― admrl, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:54 (sixteen years ago) link
Have you heard the album he did with Jon Appleton?
― Tom D., Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:57 (sixteen years ago) link
No
― admrl, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:58 (sixteen years ago) link
is it like the terry riley thing?
Ooh, this has a good handful of things that I'd always felt trepidation about searching. I only own Brown Rice, Mu, CC and LibMus, and had always worried that his '80s stuff was gonna be butt (wasn't that when he was drying out?)
― I eat cannibals, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I haven't listened to it in a while: Cherry + electronics, late 60s I think, I must dig it out. You got to admire his willingness to tkae chances. I haven't heard that Terry Riley thing. (xp)
― Tom D., Tuesday, 23 October 2007 17:00 (sixteen years ago) link
I Love Music!
― admrl, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 17:02 (sixteen years ago) link
anyone heard his album with Latif Khan? http://www.soundsoftheuniverse.com/releases/?id=15787
they claim it's a companion piece to Brown Rice.
― (jaxon) ( .) ( .) (jaxon), Wednesday, 1 April 2009 18:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Hey Jaxon, thanks for the heads-up--just gave this a listen, and there's a great short track that I'll TOTD...
― Craig D., Wednesday, 1 April 2009 18:40 (fifteen years ago) link
Thanks folks! That Terry Riley and Don Cherry one is my favourite of those
― paolo, Saturday, 22 May 2021 12:48 (two years ago) link
if you haven't already there's also the complete discography of alice coltrane. 70s stuff is more "jazz" if that matters
― Left, Saturday, 22 May 2021 15:32 (two years ago) link
I have heard some Alice Coltrane, I like her less jazzy material the best
― paolo, Saturday, 22 May 2021 17:45 (two years ago) link
you might also like pharoah sanders (try Pharoah 1977) or the Codona Albums that Cherry recorded with Colin Walcott and Nana Vasconcelos
― plax (ico), Saturday, 22 May 2021 17:51 (two years ago) link
Malinye is my favourite track by them (off '2')
― plax (ico), Saturday, 22 May 2021 17:52 (two years ago) link
anyway i am no expert
Yes to the Codona lps, my faves are 1 and 3.Of course, Brown RiceAlso: https://www.discogs.com/Don-Cherry-Latif-Khan-Music-Sangam/release/1670148
― nerve_pylon, Saturday, 22 May 2021 22:38 (two years ago) link
the Bengt Berger album Bitter Funeral Beer w/ Don Cherry is a essential, too
― Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Saturday, 22 May 2021 22:43 (two years ago) link
YES
― nerve_pylon, Saturday, 22 May 2021 23:00 (two years ago) link
Good calls! Those Codona albums are my fave. I'm basically looking for jazz that's actually more world music than actual jazz.
― paolo, Monday, 24 May 2021 12:56 (two years ago) link
(I don't like the term 'world music' but can't think of a better one, maybe fourth world?)
― paolo, Monday, 24 May 2021 12:57 (two years ago) link
I really liked the first track on Pharaoh 1977
― paolo, Monday, 24 May 2021 12:58 (two years ago) link
If you know Codona, then you may already know Oregon? I'm only know their debut album Music of Another Present Era, but it seems to fit your description.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 24 May 2021 13:50 (two years ago) link
I'd suggest checking out Sanders' albums Village of the Pharoahs and Wisdom through Music too.
Other ideas: The Art Ensemble of Chicago's Bap-Tizum and Phil Cohran's On the Beach
― rob, Monday, 24 May 2021 13:53 (two years ago) link
This might sound weird, but coming at Om Shanti Om from another angle: Baden Powell & Vinícius De Moraes Os Afro Sambas and this compilation: https://analogafrica.bandcamp.com/album/jamb-e-os-m-ticos-sons-da-amaz-nia/
― rob, Monday, 24 May 2021 13:57 (two years ago) link
I'm basically looking for jazz that's actually more world music than actual jazz.
It's a different soundworld insofar as it specifically draws upon Middle Eastern folk music, but you may also enjoy Anouar Brahem. Barzakh and Astrakan Café are very much worth everyone's time.
― pomenitul, Monday, 24 May 2021 14:06 (two years ago) link
In the appendix to his jazz book But Beautiful, Geoff Dyer identifies this sub-genre as one of the most promising routes for jazz to take, and he mentions numerous records that could qualify in his discography.
― Halfway there but for you, Monday, 24 May 2021 17:01 (two years ago) link
Some late 60s Art Ensemble of Chicago stuff might do it for you, like People in Sorrow and Reese and the Smooth Ones. Also try Sunny Murray's Homage to Africa.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 24 May 2021 17:02 (two years ago) link
Arooj Aftab
― dow, Monday, 24 May 2021 17:22 (two years ago) link
Listening to James Brandon Lewis's The Jesup Wagon before reading unperson's Stereogum review,(which is here: https://www.stereogum.com/2148394/the-month-in-jazz-may-2021/columns/ugly-beauty/), I was thinking, as he did, of Cherry-Coleman re the Red Lily Quartet's interactivity: the cornet/sax conversations there reminding me of these, generating a track that's been playing my head for quite a while https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2n6e0FMWUE
― dow, Monday, 24 May 2021 17:47 (two years ago) link
Thanks for all the recommendations folks! I've only just got round to listening to all of these
― paolo, Tuesday, 1 June 2021 12:35 (two years ago) link
So, I finally thought of looking for ESP-Disk on bandcamp, and yep they've got a big ol' page of releases from the the past 50-60s years, incl. three linked sep volumes of DC's Live at Cafe Montmarte, from 1966---think I might start w Vol. 3, based on what it says here:
Live At Café Montmartre, Vol. 3by Don Cherry
1.Complete Communion 26:10 2.Remembrance 24:45 After he left Ornette Coleman's quartet, trumpeter Don Cherry worked with a variety of collaborators and traveled more widely. He met Leandro "Gato" Barbieri in Italy years before the Argentinian saxophonist became a superstar; back then he was still heavily influenced by Albert Ayler. Cherry and Barbieri quickly bonded and began working together, with Cherry's Blue Note album Complete Communion, recorded with Barbieri (using a different rhythm section) on Christmas Eve of 1965, their first studio collaboration. They worked together in Europe so often that they had a regular quintet with German vibraphonist Karl Berger, French bassist Jean Francois Jenny Clark, and Italian drummer Aldo Romano. Clark, however, could not make the band's month-long residency at Copenhagen's most famous jazz club, so young American bassist Cameron Brown was called to replace him -- but he's not the bassist here. These performances were recorded for radio broadcast, and Danish radio rules said at least one native had to be in the band. Thus Bo Steif slid into the group for these recordings -- and stayed after Brown's musical commitments took him elsewhere.All three volumes of ESP-Disk's series of concert recordings from this group's 1966 feature performances of Cherry's suite Complete Communion from the album of the same name, none more thoroughly than this one (actually the first concert by this group), because "Remembrance" is actually the closing movement of the suite on the Blue Note album. Thematically, they range much more widely than the studio recording, making this volume an especially interesting insight into Cherry's approach.
Personnel:Don Cherry: trumpetGato Barbieri: tenor saxophoneKarl Berger: vibraphoneBo Steif: bassAldo Romano: drums
Recorded on March 3rd, 1966https://doncherry.bandcamp.com/
― dow, Monday, 21 June 2021 20:35 (two years ago) link
Currently on a bit of Steve Lacy kick and the other day I was listening to 'Evidence' (1961) [Steve Lacy, Don Cherry, Carl Brown, Billy Higgins] - a selection of Monk and Duke tunes - reading around I didn't realise they were tight and it was Don that really introduced Lacy to a more improv/free way of playing:
Cherry's arrival in New York with Ornette in 1959 bowled [Steve Lacy] over."To me, he was the vanguard of the vanguard - the freest edge of the free thing they had going then. We got to be fast friends and sort of brothers, and we spent a lot of time playing together in my house in New York."He'd say 'Well - let's play', and I'd say 'OK - what do you want to play?' - and he'd say, 'No, let's just play'. This was revolutionary to me at the time because I was into Monk tunes, and thought you had to have a tune, a structure and chord changes, the whole thing. He didn't have any problem that way. He'd just play, and when he played it was really alive."This started me thinking a lot, and it took me over five years before I reached that point myself, and a lot of hard work and struggle to break the shackles. His way of going into the beyond and just taking off - to not worry about where you were coming from, but just to go - I wanted to be able to do that myself. It had something to do with my own concepts of life and death and music."
"To me, he was the vanguard of the vanguard - the freest edge of the free thing they had going then. We got to be fast friends and sort of brothers, and we spent a lot of time playing together in my house in New York.
"He'd say 'Well - let's play', and I'd say 'OK - what do you want to play?' - and he'd say, 'No, let's just play'. This was revolutionary to me at the time because I was into Monk tunes, and thought you had to have a tune, a structure and chord changes, the whole thing. He didn't have any problem that way. He'd just play, and when he played it was really alive.
"This started me thinking a lot, and it took me over five years before I reached that point myself, and a lot of hard work and struggle to break the shackles. His way of going into the beyond and just taking off - to not worry about where you were coming from, but just to go - I wanted to be able to do that myself. It had something to do with my own concepts of life and death and music."
I can only see a couple more recordings with the two of them together - the recently released 'New York Total Music Co Frankfurt 1968' [Steve Lacy, Don Cherry, Kent Carter, Karl Berger, Jacques Thollot] and Masahiko Togashi's 'Bura Bura' (1986) [Masahiko Togashi, Dave Holland, Steve Lacy, Don Cherry]. Need to check both out.
― They do the Shug a loo, do the Shy Tuna, do the Kemba Walker (fionnland), Monday, 21 June 2021 21:49 (two years ago) link
Brian Case interview extract from 1979 btw
― They do the Shug a loo, do the Shy Tuna, do the Kemba Walker (fionnland), Monday, 21 June 2021 21:50 (two years ago) link
Thanks,I did not know about that! Always assumed that Lacy was always free. Reminds me of another one via the ESP-Disk bandcamp (if you've heard the original !967 release, and thought the sound was off, Bernard Stollman says here that he subnitted it for remastering in '92, whereupon the engineer observed that it was "out of phase," and corrected that--did Stollman not ever listen to it? Claimed Lacy's price for the master was "exorbitant," but maybe Stollman didn't actually pay enough to listen, or maybe he couldn't tell the diff)
"Broken into two thematic extrapolations, the work functions in a similar manner as Don Cherry's Complete Communion (Blue Note, 1965) effort from a year earlier..."(Henry Smith, All Abot Jazz)eleased January 2, 1967
Enrico Rava: trumpetSteve Lacy: soprano saxophoneJohnny Dyani: bassLouis T. Moholo: drums
Recorded in concert, October 8, 1966 at Institute di Tella, Buenos Aires, Argentina.
― dow, Monday, 21 June 2021 22:58 (two years ago) link
Nobody had told me about death metal drumming on Malkauns !It's probably high time I get into his discography past Eternal rhythm / Mu
― Nabozo, Tuesday, 5 October 2021 09:15 (two years ago) link
And since I see the name of Enrico Rava just up from my post, I'll say that I really enjoyed The Pilgrim and the Stars, and was wondering if any other ECM jazz is in that vein.
― Nabozo, Tuesday, 5 October 2021 09:17 (two years ago) link
The Pilgrim and the Stars doesn't seem too different from some of the Terje Rypdal records from the same period, of course Rypdal plays guitar on the Rava album.
― Halfway there but for you, Tuesday, 5 October 2021 17:59 (two years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95yHWVVwBJg
― budo jeru, Sunday, 25 December 2022 05:11 (one year ago) link
https://i.discogs.com/uHjJPpuj9kui121Q7o0ORioQ-zqrip7iXozwdsL1l5g/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:600/w:592/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTI1OTM0/OTY4LTE2NzYwNjE3/NTYtNTYwMC5qcGVn.jpeg
Here's a new disc from Transversales featuring synth from French sound collage guy Jean Schwarz. Recorded in 1977. Roughly in the same universe as other recent archival releases like 2014's MODERN ART, 2020's OM SHANTI OM, and 2021's ORGANIC MUSIC THEATRE. The biggest difference being that I would describe this as being more on the sparse / arty end of things, as opposed to deep and groovy. But it does have plenty of literal bells and includes Don's tunes BROWN RICE and HOPE (aka ORIENT). I think the real star here is double bassist J-F Jenny-Clark (who of course was on one of Don's earliest records as leader back in '66). His bass really comes through on this recording and sounds so very rich and full. My feeling upon first listen is that the music feels exploratory and hesitant and unfortunately they never really seem to get down to business. Maybe that'll change with repeated listening.
― budo jeru, Sunday, 26 February 2023 01:37 (one year ago) link
^ this is my blurb, in case it wasn't clear. an ILM exclusive!
― budo jeru, Sunday, 26 February 2023 01:39 (one year ago) link
here's a profile of don i found in an old issue of DOWNBEAT (oct. 1975):
https://i.imgur.com/iiuPDmN.png
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 16 May 2023 03:34 (eleven months ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/GRrduJx.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/AjCQN7K.png
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 16 May 2023 03:35 (eleven months ago) link
Thanks to the death of Swedish saxophonist Bernt Rosengren, who worked a lot with Cherry in the early 70s, I've been revisiting Eternal Rhythm today and checking out two other albums I wasn't that familiar with, Brotherhood Suite (recordings from 1968-74, released in 1997) and The Summer House Sessions (recordings from 1972-74, released in 2021).
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 16 May 2023 04:22 (eleven months ago) link
RIP Bernt!
i have always intended to track down a copy of BROTHERHOOD SUITE! will report back.
― budo jeru, Tuesday, 16 May 2023 15:09 (eleven months ago) link
that article is awesome, thank you for sharing it ...
― tylerw, Tuesday, 16 May 2023 15:18 (eleven months ago) link
It doesn't look like Don ever recorded with the Mellotron that he wanted, although Eagle-Eye used a Chamberlin once.
The mention of heroin in that article, as a youthful "phase" outgrown after a few years, reminds me of something I read, probably in one of the books about Ornette Coleman. It said something about how Ornette despaired of Don Cherry ever escaping from addiction in the last decades of his life. I haven't read anywhere else of his addiction being an ongoing struggle or problem, though, so I wonder where the truth lies.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 18 May 2023 01:18 (eleven months ago) link
In one of her memoirs Viv Albertine talks about touring with Don Cherry in the 1970s and upsetting him by saying "I hate junkies", not knowing that Cherry was himself an addict (Cherry apparently replied, "I hate hate"). So I certainly think his addiction was more than a youthful phase, sadly.
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 18 May 2023 08:03 (eleven months ago) link
this right here's the stuff, featuring the cherry/dyani/temiz line-up:
https://www.strandedrecords.com/cdn/shop/files/don-cherry-trio-the-ortf-recordings-paris-1971-lp_1024x1024.jpgDon Cherry Trio - The ORTF Recordings Paris 1971 LP
https://www.strandedrecords.com/collections/newsletter/products/don-cherry-trio-the-ortf-recordings-paris-1971-lp
― budo jeru, Friday, 8 September 2023 01:13 (eight months ago) link
don cherry at sandy bull's wedding
https://i.imgur.com/yDj15NG.png
― budo jeru, Thursday, 7 December 2023 05:09 (five months ago) link
In one of her memoirs Viv Albertine talks about touring with Don Cherry in the 1970s…Slight derail: with the first memoir I really liked or admired who I thought she was, the second memoir I cooled on that considerably.
― Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Thursday, 7 December 2023 09:10 (five months ago) link
nice roundup from last year over at the free jazz blog, focusing on don cherry reissues and related material:
https://www.freejazzblog.org/2023/09/don-cherry-archives-tributes-and-re.html
― budo jeru, Sunday, 3 March 2024 21:23 (two months ago) link