can we talk about MAD MEN on AMC on this NEW thread ('cause the original one's getting way too long)

That whole exchange was brilliant: Peggy briskly and dismissively saying 'thank you', than Sal rolling his eyes.

Peggy's weird mixture of surprise, shock, and professional resolve was awesome to behold

A great Peggy episode.
Is Roger going to completely self-destruct before this season is through?

I don't think I ever want to see Bye Bye Birdy if the opening sequence is anything to go by.

Good god yes. I couldn't believe this was a real thing for a while, rather than some artfully made up attempt by the Mad Men people to create a truly cringe-worthy bit of retro.

i thought the bar thing was the guys saying "hey don't you live right around the corner?" as a way to bring up the fact that he lives around the corner like "nudge nudge, that's right you can take her home, go for it buddy!"

bye bye birdie is fricken awesome u fags

i thought his buds were giving him an escape route if he wanted to bail

I would def. watch Bye Bye Birdie. There was a thing on PBS last night called something like Hollywood: Singing and Dancing, and it basically made me want to rent all the old movie musicals. Watching the Bye Bye Birdie clip on Mad Men at least made me long to hear "Kids" ("what the fuck is wrong with those kids today, doo-doo-dah-doo-doo-doo").
"

The Bye Bye Birdie sequence's sex appeal is pretty plain even now, but no, it's not a good movie.

Fave line: "I was hoping he'd eaten her."

sorry if this was mentioned already but Don's farm roots + hippie girlfriend Midge + trip to L.A. + the way he fondled the grass = major transition already set in motion, as if Weiner wants him to stand in for the decade itself. As long as the writers don't make him grow his hair out I'm cool with it. Would love to see him drop acid, except he'd probably just have more meaningful flashbacks of his family.

loved that the diet drink could be a substitute for 'coffee, or dexedrine'

Peggy's "yeah but this appeals to men not women" vs Don's "you know how it works" was my favourite moment of the episode. Peggy's ahead of the curve here and at some point there's going to be an awesome face-off between the two of them.

I can never work out what Don is thinking when he's sitting across the table from Roger. Is he actually seeing his future self and thinking "oh fuck"?

i hope not. roger is an aging spoiled rich kid with marginal talent for his job -- if anyone's gonna turn into him it's pete campbell.

When Roger was mouthing off about his marital woes in this episode, Don didn't give anything back at all. He just said "I'm sorry to hear that" and "Well, you said it". I liked it in the gambling den in the last season, when they were drunk enough that Roger could goad some kind of personal response out of him.

The exchange this week was a nice counterpoint to Don cutting down Lane Pryce talking shop at dinner with "The ladies don't want to hear about that". Don has such a firm sense of what should and shouldn't be said.

Further to what's been said above, I'm starting to subscribe to the view expressed by someone in the other thread that there are signs of Don gradually losing his touch when to advertising. Peggy's surprise that he hadn't seen Bye Bye Birdie - "But you see everything!"

Ann-Margret did sound awful in that film clip, but she was sometimes much better...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMkE_2Wyrfs

I was also surprised by the flashes of bitterness on Peggy's part, dropping that "the guy I work for is such a jerk" line for ex

I mean Don IS a jerk, but he's had a weird symbiotic relationship with Peggy up to this point, both of them using each other to advance themselves

I didn't take that line very seriously. I thought that was just part of the easy patter she fed that guy after he assumed he was a typist.

yea i agree

I didn't take it too seriously either but she probably meant it, at least partly ... part of why she went to the bar was to blow off steam after Don cut her down

I watch the first season tonight. I've only barely breathed the mephitic fumes of the first thread.

a whole season in one night?

I wonder how many episodes before Betty's dad does end up in an old folks home. McCain look-alike geezer + new baby is going to spell disaster for Bett's equanimity. Also, I can't believe Joan went ahead and married that creep. (but can also understand completely - I mean, he's a doctor! And, so embarrassing to call of a wedding!) But maybe he'll get drafted.

I am worried that the father is going to do something creepy and horrible to one of the kids or Betty before he ends up at that old folks home.

oh right didn't he grab Betty's boobs in a previous episode or something...?

"now that you've fed me, why don't we go upstairs"

Yeah, there was a moment when Betty's brother was climbing into the top bunk where I thought it was granddad going for an inappropriate snuggle.

oh right didn't he grab Betty's boobs in a previous episode or something...?

yeah I think he had a delusion that Betty was his dead wife

yeah, it was his senility iirc.

also i thought peggy's 'my boss is a jerk' line was mostly to go along with her joan imitation to let a guy think she was some dumb secretary so he'd be interested in her. i liked how that whole thing went from being like 'i'm so sad peggy's selling out to get a guy :(' to 'wow way to take control of your sexuality and use this dumb jerk for what you want out of him!'

yeah that was an interesting turnabout - I love how she walked out on him and he was all "but, where are ya going?"/sad puppy

that guy didn't seem like a dumb jerk at all to me, just a nice dopey kid.

ok yeah but i guess going in you assumed he was gonna be a jerk like his friend. so he probably was dumb, but maybe not a jerk.

Further to what's been said above, I'm starting to subscribe to the view expressed by someone in the other thread that there are signs of Don gradually losing his touch when to advertising. Peggy's surprise that he hadn't seen Bye Bye Birdie - "But you see everything!"

yeah think the seeds have been planted on this since early season 2, he's been slacking off and disinterested for quite a while but his talent kind of carries him through.

And his advice to London Fog was awful.

The Wikipedia article on the company not only mentions the MM episode but says this:

"The company went public in the 1960s. By the 1970s, the company had its own stores, and was manufacturing not only raincoats, but also other types of clothes and accessories. At the time, two-thirds of all raincoats sold in the United States were London Fog.

London Fog expanded internationally during the 1990s, selling in places like the United Kingdom and China."

also i thought peggy's 'my boss is a jerk' line was mostly to go along with her joan imitation to let a guy think she was some dumb secretary so he'd be interested in her.

yeah, i think she was trying the bimbo-secretary hat on for size. it wasn't quite a joan imitation though -- joan's not dumb at all, just vivacious.

well, she did use joan's subway line.

it's not a dumb line! you've been on the subway; it's crowded!

ok i mean like, it was the line joan used to make all the boys laugh and like her... she doesn't even ride the subway; her husband won't let her!

what subway line are y'all referring to...?

that subway thing reminded me a little of ken cosgrove's line from last season about "i live in murray hill... i can walk to work! BUT I DON'T! omglolz"

didn't know there was such commute snobbery in the '60s.

"When I do come, she will speak not, she will stand,
Either hand
On my shoulder, give her eyes the first embrace
Of my face,
Ere we rush, ere we extinguish sight and speech
Each on each."

lol

Scene: The next morning at Sterling Cooper. Peggy walks by as Joan charms three male clients.

Joan: So I said, "It's so crowded in here, I feel like I'm on the subway!"

Joan's bra: My sentiments exactly.

Men: Ha ha ha ha ha! Please have sex with us.

Joan: Sorry, there's only one date rapist in this world for me. Now, if you'll excuse me, my character apparently won't be further developed until the third episode.

Men: We think you developed just fine.

Joan's ample ass: Shake, shake.

tehresa, that's hilarious.

Re Don and Roger--in the past you got the vibe that Don was a bit amused by Roger, and liked spending time with him, even if there wasn't much personal talk between them, but now Don's looking at Roger without any warmth or patience at all.

what subway line are y'all referring to...?

the lexington to grand central! (haw, do you see what i did there?)

<3

but now Don's looking at Roger without any warmth or patience at all.

Yeah, but Roger used to be a rather privileged philandering middle-aged man who, nonetheless, took the work seriously. Now, he quite obviously could not care less. Don does not have this luxury.

c+pd from the other thread:

Don on top of his game at work and then sticking up for Betty.

I don't think this was his sole rationale for getting his father-in-law to stay with them tbh - he's clearly got some sentimental attachment to him as a cranky old father figure, and hard to avoid the conclusion that one of the reasons he wants him around is cuz y'know, Don wants/needs a dad (esp one who will understand living through the Depression - lolz @ liquor dumpin).

I feel somehow that his insistence on keeping the dad's car is a first act introdcution of a gun.

I don't know, recently watched last season and I don't think Don really feels that strongly about father-in-law.

Nothing like picking over the minutiae of a show that's been off the air for five years...I was watching a few minutes of Easy Rider the other night; I won't say that I forgot "If 6 Was 9" was in there--never a favorite film of mine--more like I just had forgotten all about that. Anyway, in addition to the discussion above, its appearance in Mad Men then also becomes an obvious reference to Hopper's film, probably in theatres when the episode takes place. Actually, seeing as that episode is titled "Field Trip"--Don's just returned from a trip to California (and will soon be heading on the road for good), the Hopper reference might be the main reason for using the song. But I'll stand by what I said above.

I'm retired and living in the middle of nowhere and have nothing else to occupy my mind...One thing the show did really well, especially from the mid-'60s onward, was--references and allusions both big and small--pay tribute to most of the key zeitgeist films of the day: Easy Rider, Rosemary's Baby, 2001, Planet of the Apes, Blow-Up, Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice (partially--the retreat in the final episode is of course modeled on Esalen, but there's clear overlap with Mazursky's movie, too), The Graduate, etc. I don't think any of the references seem forced or out of character. (When someone--Peggy, I think--talks about having just seen Rosemary's Baby, and how it's going to be the basis for a new ad campaign, she might just as well be describing Night of the Living Dead for the first 30 seconds, before she gets more specific.)

fwiw I support you on your journey

It's slow going getting through this again. I am only several episodes into the 3rd season now (got distracted by Schitt's Creek). I totally forgot about Duck and Peggy's relationship and am dreaaading.

(xpost) It's the last of Erik Erkson's eight stages of psychosocial development: hope, will, purpose, competence, fidelity, love, care, bizarre Mad Men obsession.

The yuckiness of the Peggy/Duck relationship is mitigated by the sweetness of the Peggie/Freddie friendship.

Peggie, Peggy, Freddie, Freddy, yucky, Duck, whatever.

Add to the list of heartbreaking moments: When Harry Crane tells Joan that he's hired a full-time Director of Broadcast Ops, and that she won't be needed to read scripts anymore. Really great subtle acting by Christina Hendricks here in her crestfallen-but-maintaining-composure reaction.

[extremely Don Draper voice] THAT'S WHAT THE SHOW IS FOR https://t.co/kE4ZR2QN0w

— andi zeisler (@andizeisler) July 1, 2020

I was waiting for something to happen with that episode

waiting for something to happen is what that show is for

I'm not complaining--I understand--but it is pretty clear from Don's embarrassed reaction (not to mention your own) that, as the tweet says, the context is already there. Roger also has cringeworthy moments involving the Japanese guys from Honda and (very first episode) the impending meeting with Rachel's Jewish-owned department store. And lots else...the blackface episode is indeed the worst of that. The world leaving behind a couple of Eisenhower-era guys is one of the show's central themes.

Think it's pretty clear in the ep: after the blackface skit, Don has a little talk with Roger, who bleats, "They're just jealous 'cause I'm happy!" Don: "No one thinks you're happy."
At a family member's behest, I've watched the complete run of The Division on antenna TV. Hamm (token male cop) is very good all through (good ensemble in plain clothes cop show, from early 00s)(with okay writing for a cop show).

it's *crystal* clear in the episode iirc. glad they settled for just an intro card. that should be the standard practice for such moves imo

Pete Campbell is the only person there who looks legit horrified iirc

You're right. I said Don, but his embarrassment was more mild; it was Pete who was mortified.

Pete being both generally the most "liberal" of the bunch (well, the men, anyway) but still a huge prick is one of my favorite things about the show

surely that accolade applies to Kinsey equally!

I guess I considered Kinsey a second-stringer.

I've posted about this before, but my favourite Mad Men moment related to race (like all huge topics of the day--the war, emerging feminist and gay rights consciousness--slowly and obliquely making its way into the antiquated, cloistered world of SC&P) was Roger's reaction to MLK's assassination. He has no conception of what MLK was saying (or at least chooses not to) and can only understand him in terms of advertising: "Man knew how to talk. I don’t know why, but I thought that would save him. I thought it would solve the whole thing." In terms of getting a character exactly right, brilliant.

Haven't checked this against what I remember, but "a list of almost every film that has been mentioned, referenced, quoted, and parodied in Matthew Weiner’s Mad Men."

http://letterboxd.com/ledzeppelin/list/mad-men/

One of the comments does give pause: "Where's Planet of the Apes?" A rather egregious omission.

Another re-watch, and again, will try not to post too much (mostly because I'll inevitably repeat stuff I've already said). Two-and-half seasons in, something I noticed for the first time: how often someone says "That's true," usually with a wry smile on their face--at least six or seven times thus far.

I've been periodically posting these movie-music Zoomcasts I've been doing with a friend. We finally got around to Mad Men for our 70th, which brings things full circle: the Zoomcasts came out of a book which came out of a blog which came out of Mad Men. We have another ~15 to cover and then we're finished.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjvN3j1poK4

https://x.com/seanfennessey/status/1728807255833985397?s=46&t=bJOqpCuQneT7ju08y55VSA

Just needs a WHO SAYS NO to be the most Ringer tweet of all time.