What in God's Green Goodness Are We Up To In Afghanistan?

I'm not going to worry about what David Broder and Newt Gingrich tell Cokie at the Sunday brunch.

that way of thinking is the trap they've set for the democrats of course. if the war on terror is indefinite, and actually infinite, then anything less than maximum bristling hostility can be connected with any perceived success of terrorist tactics, from now until forever. the only way out is to replace that framework. but it will take hard work and discipline among democrats and their kin and frankly on the basis of the last few months - no, the last few decades - i'm not sure they have it in them.

i mean, it's so much more pleasing to talk about "birthers" 24/7 isn't it??

Hey guys remember how well Tom DeLay and the rest of the Republican Congress supported Bill Clinton in Kosovo?

It is, after all, His War now, and since He Owns It, you watch the criticism start to mount through 2010.

yeah i think we're on a short countdown to hearing about supporting afghan civil society and gov't as a fuzzy-headed liberal nation building adventure (which might even be true)

I don't think so - Republicans are gung ho for this war, domestic support for it is almost entirely on the Republican side.

Also the War on Terror meme is dead. That particular propagandistic blight was owned by the Bush admin, and you'll note that Obama has foregone the phrase entirely.

Catching Osama and the upper Al Qaeda leadership is the only practical goal in sight here, and is probably foremost on Obama's mind (a little nation-building in Afghanistan is a prerequisite for accomplishing this though, and you can't do that unless the country is secured militarily... so he's kind of between a rock and a hard place. An open ended military commitment in Afghanistan is doomed, just as it was with the Russians, so that's not really a feasible strategy).

Republican support for the war in Afghanistan is at like 70% or something, are you guys not aware of this

i don't want to say you're not right Tracer -- the current media/political environment means that any action by the president necessitates a not-equal but furiously opposite reaction -- i just don't think afghanistan is a hill anyone wants to die on. where's the real constituency for it?

xps 70% really? you always have to correct for the GOP's atrophied share. ONLY 70% of the people still willing to call themselves republicans? feh, you couldn't go to war on that. can you stay at war on that?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/15/afghan.war.poll/index.html

The poll suggests that 23 percent of Democrats support the war. That number rises to 39 percent for independents and 62 percent for Republicans.

Support will drop the longer Obama's president.

probably, but I think we're talking years not weeks there

Kosovo's a bad analogy - there were not terrorists who killed American civilians on American soil hiding out in Kosovo, it was an easy war for Republicans to oppose. To support withdrawing from Afghanistan, Republicans have to willingly and publicly admit that catching Bin Laden isn't worth it.

also they won't be able to say that Obama's made less of an effort there than Bush, because that simply isn't possible

so Karzai promised "change" in his re-inaugural address; sounds hauntingly familiar.

and hooray for David Obey:

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=9126805

so how do we get rid of this warmongering fuck in 3 years?

self-therapy:

http://pol.moveon.org/afghan_timeline/?id=18131-1293854-VAebEWx&t=4

http://rethinkafghanistan.com/?utm_source=credopetition

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/what-congress-should-ask-mcchrystal/

(in addition to What in God's Green Goodness ...)

so how do we get rid of this warmongering fuck in 3 years?

Palin/Beck '12!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU0DxJVWhGw

http://i49.tinypic.com/2nb7vv8.jpg

hisssssssssssssssssssssss!!

huh

I dunno how much to trust polling in such a country but still

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8464763.stm

Militants attack Afghan capital Kabul

is there a better afghanistan thread? anyway greenwald has been really enlightening lately imo - http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/05/afghanistan/index.html

damn cold

that is the all-purpose reaction to any greenwald piece

my brother's being shipped out there next month :-/

dude. i am sorry to hear that.

How to End the War in Afghanistan
By David Miliband
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23870

New information not good:

U.S. Admits Role in February Killing of Afghan Women

KABUL, Afghanistan — After initially denying involvement or any cover-up in the deaths of three Afghan women during a badly bungled American Special Operations assault in February, the American-led military command in Kabul admitted late on Sunday that its forces had, in fact, killed the women during the nighttime raid.
...
Three women also died that night at the same home: One was a pregnant mother of 10 and another was a pregnant mother of six. NATO military officials had suggested that the women were actually stabbed to death — or had died by some other means — hours before the raid, an explanation that implied that family members or others at the home might have killed them.

Survivors of the raid called that explanation a cover-up and insisted that American forces killed the women. Relatives and family friends said the bloody raid followed a party in honor of the birth of a grandson of the owner of the house.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/world/asia/05afghan.html

There's also that crazy video that leaked today (via gov't enemy Wikileaks) about US forces gunning down civilians in Iraq, including some Reuters journalists...

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshowpics/5766554.cms

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/world/asia/07convoys.html?ref=global-home

For months, reports have abounded here that the Afghan mercenaries who escort American and other NATO convoys through the badlands have been bribing Taliban insurgents to let them pass.

Then came a series of events last month that suggested all-out collusion with the insurgents.

...

“We’re funding both sides of the war,” a NATO official in Kabul said. The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was incomplete, said he believed millions of dollars were making their way to the Taliban.

Dammit, when we buy people, we expect them to stay bought!

that was just posted a few minutes ago i think, there was a related terrifying story i read in print this morning, lemme find it

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/world/asia/06warlords.html?ref=todayspaper

by golly we're gonna fix that place just you wait and see

i feel like there should be a different thread to put this in, but as this story unravels it's becoming one of the more heartbreaking things i've read this year. these people are honest to god heroes in every sense of the word

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/10/world/asia/10aidworkers.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

(has this been brought up elsewhere?)

Information is delivered as PowerPoint slides in e-mail at the flow rate of a fire hose. Standard operating procedure is to send everything that you have. Volume is considered the equivalent of quality.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/27/afghan_powerpoint_rangers/

Nine Afghan Boys Collecting Firewood Killed by NATO Helicopters

gruesome, horrifying, heartbreaking story. hearts and minds, we're winnin' em

I'M
SO
SORRY

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-07/u-s-defense-chief-gates-meets-afghans-amid-protests-over-civilian-deaths.html

analysis of taliban chant music

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/section?content=a934337516&fulltext=713240928

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football [soccer], and cricket. Take the Rocket-Propelled Grenade launcher [RPG] on your shoulders. Oh youth, quit volleyball, football [soccer], and cricket. Take the Rocket-Propelled Grenade launcher [RPG] on your shoulders. Play with human heads instead of playing with balls. Play with human heads instead of playing with balls.

* Quit kids' games; take the RPG on your shoulders. Quit kids' games; take the rocket on your shoulders.

* Oh youth, quit playing volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders. Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* You look good with the weapon and Moswak [herbal toothbrush] but not chewing gum and chocolate. Oh youth, Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* Purchase every worthless human for free (Kill the enemies.) Purchase every worthless human for free (Kill the enemies.) Take the RPG for on your shoulders.

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders. You will soon defeat the enemies. You will soon defeat the enemies. You only need to put some more efforts defeating them. Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* Behead by using the sword those people who open the country gate to the strangers. Behead by using the sword, those people who open the gate to strangers.

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders. Walk beside Ayubi [poet]. Don't be even late for a minute! Take the RPG on your shoulders. Don't be even late for a minute! Take the RPG on your shoulders.

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football (soccer), and cricket. Oh youth, take the RPG on your shoulders. Oh youth, take the RPG on your shoulders.

* The enemies have come in the shape of friends. They look like human beings but they are wild animals. The act of disuniting people stays in their blood and their messages are look like flowers but they are full of poison. They have come under the banner of the friends but they are murderers.

* The enemies have come in the shape of friends. They look like human beings but they are wild animals. I have always made the destiny of this country. I have brought happiness and beauty to my country. They have come under the name of sympathy but they are muggers. They have come under the name of sympathy but they are muggers.

* The enemies have come in a shape of friend. They look like human beings but they are wild animals. They are Jewish but half of them are idolaters. They are fire worshippers who came from East and West.

Thanks!

so this oughta be wrapped up pretty soon eh

Ask the Taliban

* Oh youth, quit volleyball, football, and cricket. Take the RPG on your shoulders. You will soon defeat the enemies. You will soon defeat the enemies. You only need to put some more efforts defeating them. Take the RPG on your shoulders.