Rolling Brexit Links/UK politics in the neo-Weimar era

To avoid cluttering up the discussion threads and because there is so much going on everywhere at once rn.

Angry thread from a NI tweeter, points out how none of Leave are even talking about the impossibility/sheer danger of what they want in NI. Starts here: https://twitter.com/shockproofbeats/status/747362070576898048

@jennyhillBBC: German business institute tell us that Boris claim ( see article ) re single market is not true http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/

https://twitter.com/jennyhillBBC/status/747340633744908288

Germany rules out any negotiations pre-A50
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36637232

LABOUR’S popularity would be boosted significantly if the party dumped Jeremy Corbyn as leader, according to a new poll.

The UK-wide BMG survey for The Herald, carried out before the shock Brexit result, found that just over one-third, 36 per cent, said that they could vote for a Corbyn-led Labour party.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14581225.Dumping_Jeremy_Corbyn_would_give_Labour_s_popularity_12_point_boost__according_to_new_poll/

http://i.imgur.com/GRkvp73.jpg

The pound since Osborne spoke this morning to reassure investors.

Vote Leave wipes website, including all speeches
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org

10 year gilt yield is down to below 1% for the first time on record.

Records go back to the 1700s.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-10-year-gilt-yields-falls-below-1-for-the-first-time-1467023195

The article mentions the FTSE 250 had fallen 3.5% this morning. It's now down 5.5%.

How quickly can I join the Labour party? I want to have a say so the right wing Tories are held at bay. I only voted Tory for David

(Cameron's sister-in-law)

i know the guy who posted those tweets about norn iron

claim 2 fame

John Healey has quit shad cab

Old news (10 mins ago) but Amanda Eagle has gone too

Emergency debate on Brexit under way in NI Assembly http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-36635182

Sweden also says no negotiations before A50

http://i.imgur.com/1h63etK.jpg

The FTSE, 5 min ago

Maria Eagle's out

Juncker spokesperson says he will meet with Scottish representatives

Someone made an Article 50 Clock

Number Ten says Oliver Letwin to take charge of Brexit negotiations

Corbyn spokes: "We are not moving. A coup in the corridors of parliament will not succeed"

I don't think we need to rush this process, during the campaign there was talk about triggering article 50 and its process of leaving the EU right away, literally Friday morning, and I think quite rightly the PM has paused on that which allows the dust to settle, allows people to go away on holiday, have some informal discussions about it, and then think about it come September, October time.

Constitutional Law Assc says parliament must assent to A50
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/06/27/nick-barber-tom-hickman-and-jeff-king-pulling-the-article-50-trigger-parliaments-indispensable-role/

That and this = re-assuring stuff: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

Election of leader of the Conservative party by 2nd September. Nominations close Thursday

Dunno about JC retaining the young vote...

LYL Statement on Jeremy Corbyn

http://londonyounglabour.co.uk/uncategorized/lyl-statement-on-jeremy-corbyn/

Young Labour has next to nothing to do with the vast majority of young Labour members.

Is there any point to this thread? There isn't going to be much going on in he main politics thread for oooh the next two years which won't have something to do with Brexit.

Tory vote expected now to be Johnson v May

xp I was just doing links and updates, leaving the chat elsewhere

Cameron to rule out second referendum in 2.30p statement

Two sources: 1922 ctte pencilling in Oct 13 for general election

Why would they want an election?

I guess they figure they can't lose, and it will give whatever plan they come up with legitimacy?

{wrong polling figs snipped}

Idk, a few Tory MPs who backed leaving have said they explicitly do not want a general election as it has the potential to be run as a proxy second referendum. If the economy tanks even further over the next few months all bets would be off. I'd be interested if the 1922 had another reason in mind.

Also if that poll is right the Lib Dems have lost over a fifth of their support since backing remain which seems unusual.

Poll seems nuts to me. {Edit: was wrong figs}

Corrected figures:
Westminster voting intention:
CON: 36% (+2)
LAB: 32% (+2)
UKIP: 15% (-4) (!)
LDEM: 7% (-1)
GRN: 5% (+1)
(via ICM, online / 24 - 26 Jun)
https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Voting-27thJun16_pv-only-BPC.pdf

Poland wants UK to hold 2nd Brexit referendum, 'foresees efforts aimed at making UK return', ruling party leader says -AFP

@GuardianAnushka: Labour has agreed to no confidence tonight and secret ballot tomorrow.

Scotland should be fast-tracked back into the European Union if it votes for independence, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin has said.

Thanks for starting this thread stet. Jaw dropping quote from Matthew elliott. Let's all just chill have a bit of a holiday and we'll see what's high on the things to do list when the kids go back to school eh?

Incredible.

Cameron talking in the house now. Nothing shattering, but says no Article 50 till successor, he wants to stay in the single market (and hence freedom of movement?), and that the house should shape what Brexit actually means.

Clegg calls for an election. Robertson makes threatening noises about devolution. Everybody talking about race attacks. Corbyn attacks his backbenchers and says country need stability.

Cameron says new PM can decide on general election.

Gove and Johnson not in the house

@lbcbreaking: National Police Chiefs' Council: Reports to online hate crime reporting site have increased 57% compared with four weeks ago.

I know Paul Mason gets some stick around here for his weirdo futurism etc but this seems pretty right to me

Our strategic problem is to reconnect not only with the Labour core voters who backed Brexit but also with those who have drifted to Ukip.

I don’t know whether the present leadership can do that; I do know all the previous leaderships failed to do it

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brexit-labour-rebels-sabotage

I did read recently that UKIP got more support from defecting Lib Dems than Labour voters in 2015 but idk if that's true.

Yvette Cooper demands cross-party ctte, says "dangerous political vacuum" being left by Cameron

Cameron on N. Ireland border: "oh, that's complicated".

So the real nightmare scenario is not Brexit – it is what happens, socially and economically, when Brexit does not work.

What happens when the investment banks move to Frankfurt, the carmakers to Hungary, the offshore finance wizards to Dublin, the tech companies to newly independent Scotland? What happens when, instead of Poles, it is poor white English people herded into the polytunnels of Kent to pick strawberries for union-busting gangmasters?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/global-order-britain-survive-eu-alternative-economic-model

Scottish Lab leader Dugdale rejects case for independence:

I understand why people may move to support independence at this stage, but when you have just removed yourself from your second biggest market, why would you want to leave your first?

(Cameron is a dangerous political vacuum)

Pretty big turnout at the pro-Corbyn rally outside parliament https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/747472894268162049

Tim Harford just posted this, hollow lolz galore http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/22/future-britons-will-find-it-hard-to-believe-that-anyone-voted-to/

Whoops

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/27/sp-cuts-united-kingdom-sovereign-credit-rating-to-aa-from-aaa.html

Greenwald approvingly links to "British journalist Tom Ewing" :D

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/

Curtice says there is a small majority for independence in Scotland, but points out all the polls are shaky at best
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36646789

This thread is interesting, wasn't sure where best to post it:
https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/746765092218277888

Gist of it being that, in the wake of WWII, corporations were seen as saner and safer than nations, and now...

And we're off.

"Juncker says he has imposed a Presidential Ban on all contact between EU officials and UK officials until Art 50."

'I know none of you has ever had a proper job in your lives', Farage tells MEPs to boos. Schulz urges calm: 'Don't act like UKIP'

Farage:

"You all laughed at me. Well, you're not laughing now, are you?"

BBC has cut coverage wtf. Alyn Smith gets a standing ovation for

I speak for Scotland in this house ... Scotland did not let you down, do not let Scotland down now

British fishermen have been warned that, despite the promises made by the leave campaign, they cannot expect to be granted greater catches after the UK leaves the European Union, and they may face increased economic turmoil.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/jun/28/british-fishermen-warned-brexit-will-not-mean-greater-catches

"You all laughed at me. Well, you're not laughing now, are you?"

omg did he actually say this

is that a quote from a serial killer movie?

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/747729114828779521 (Alyn Smith video)

xp Bob Monkhouse: "They laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian. Well, they're not laughing now."

haha yes!

I'm told Boris Johnson has made clear to Tory right he WILL end EU free movement after Telegraph column y'day angered ppl.

The big think-pieces drying up today, huh

Farage:

"You all laughed at me. Well, you're not laughing now, are you?"
― stet, Tuesday, 28 June 2016 10:47

Farage is Walder Frey.

Here's Farage's speech if you can stomach it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36650014

Family rifts over Brexit: ‘I can barely look at my parents’

Jamie, 28, grew up in a council flat with a single mother who worked hard to make their difficult life better for her children. “I’ve always been so proud of her for all the things she sacrificed for us. She’s warm, kind, generous and funny. She has such acute sympathy that she’s been known to cry hearing about the illness of other people’s relatives. Oh, and she also hates immigrants.”

It is not a prejudice that Jamie shares. “My mum voted to leave the EU because she doesn’t want non-British citizens here. Despite the fact that my brother and I have been extremely vocal about our reasons for staying in, she’s chosen to vote out because she doesn’t like the local Asian population. It makes no sense to me.

“When she tells me wildly embellished stories about how disgusting the local peaceful, quiet, mostly elderly immigrant community are, I laugh at her and calmly tell her she’s wrong. Most of the time, I can see past her views. But right now, I’m angry and ashamed.”

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/another-media-setup/

Craig Murray is an unreliable weirdo but this did raise eyebrows. I didn't know the Pride heckler was a PR.

Has farage had a proper job? Wasn't he a trader? Did he have some old productive work I haven't heard about?

Wasn't he a commodity broker for a while?

He worked on the London Metals Exchange, the only open-outcry exchange left in Europe (and the exchange with the highest levels of drunkenness, allegedly).

Stephen Crabb is standing for Tory leader

too ugly

bit of a sideways move?

xp the Corbyn Pride heckler was outed as a PR shill almost the second the footage was made public. Corbyn was at the Orlando vigil with all of the shadow cabinet and has gone to Pride and similar longer than that silly little twink yuppie has been alive.

Why is Farage like he is? When he says "you're not laughing now" he's practically reverberating with emotion. I'm really intrigued by the psychology / identity politics of it.

have you ever heard of egomania

Well yeah, but why is he also a fascist, why does he have this victim thing going on?

Oh, his dad left the family home when Nige was 5.

xp That's basically what fascism is?

And was an alcoholic.

That's what he is but why.

MPs are choosing between Watson and Angela Eagle to be the Corbyn challenger, Sky says

Oh, his dad left the family home when Nige was 5.

someone could find this sort of thing very offensive Hey Bob

cool we've reached the pop psychoanalysis bit of the links thread

Sept 9th for announcement of new Tory leader

Corbyn loses no confidence vote 172 to 40

212 out of 229(?) voted

Corrected figs from @iainjwatson: 176 no confidence, 40 support, 4 abstentions

Passed an old Greek guy in the street earlier, "The English! They've gone crayzy!" Don't think he was too sane himself though.

George Eaton Verified account
‏@georgeeaton

40 MPs back Corbyn. That means he'd need 10 MEPs if not on the ballot automatically.

https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/747816359325761537

That Farage speech is O_O. EU has UK over a barrel and he's just baring his ass and telling them to pucker up. Reminded of Rhodes in Day of the Dead, pointlessly frothing and indignant to the bitter end as he's being pulled to pieces.

Kippers will be lapping up Farage (and Nuttall) behaviour in Euro Parliament. I'm a bit surprised The Sun still aren't cheering him on in public.

The Sun is behaving very oddly. That they've even admitted this is having a "rocky start" is unusual too.

Ben Judah
‏@b_judah
As in the USSR, there is immensely charismatic out of control Boris promising a fraudulent "independence" the elite are unable to check.

Can only be a matter of time before the tanks roll in to shell Parliament.

Any chance of a revolution? Or is this inherently one, just in totally the wrong direction.
Is there any way this won't be negative for way too many.

http://steve-patterson.com/less-than-1000-brits-googled-what-is-the-eu-after-referendum/

https://medium.com/@carlgardner/for-britains-sake-how-we-can-solve-this-crisis-d4b20492b303#.yjz03217k

One of the 40 who voted for Corbyn has now recanted so he's down to 39.

Paul Mason is reporting that if Corbyn wins, he'll devolve more power to the members and put mandatory reselection in place so MPs can be replaced if they don't have the backing of their local party.

https://www.amazon.com/Pounded-Pound-Socioeconomic-Implications-European-ebook/dp/B01HJXVP8G?ie=UTF8&ref_=asap_bc#navbar

Humorous gay erotica writer Chuck Tingle's newest book Pounded By The Pound: Turned Gay By The Socioeconomic Implications Of Britain Leaving The European Union.

George Eaton so take with a massive pinch of salt but he's reporting that the reason nobody has challenged Corbyn officially is that they still think he'll resign, which is optimistic.

It's pretty funny to see part of the anti-Corbyn group stomping their feet, abusing him and the "£3 members" and generally acting like spoiled children and another section saying "Corbyn needs to go immediately but in a leadership election against someone supporting an end to free movement / who voted for Iraq / etc I'd vote for him".

@JenWilliamsMEN: Wow. Farage on Mcr's racist tram thugs: 'I'd say to them that if they had those feelings those feelings should not be as strong this week'

xyzzz was asking in the other thread about what the work on the civil service/whitehall side might look like - think this might be a solid guess:

http://infacts.org/henry-viii-perils-brexit/
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/constitution-unit/research/europe/index/edit/constitution-unit/research/europe/briefing-papers/briefing-paper-1

might be some shortcuts, but this is just digital govt geeks taking a guess:
https://twitter.com/richardjpope/status/747788280192708609

tx looking now.

https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/747682225143984128

TIMES POLL: Should Jeremy Corbyn resign?
Public: 49% Yes, 30% No
Labour voters: 54% No, 35% Yes
(YouGov/Times)

Oh the fannies

There's obligations to be met to be the official opposition in the HofC. Lab now can't meet then. Tomorrow the SNP will seek to replace them
https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/747898026157608965

https://i.imgflip.com/16lg9z.jpg

@tnewtondunn Wow, Merkel wants a #Brexit rethink. Chf of stf Peter Altmaier, UK "should have the possibility to reconsider the consequences of an exit"

The Associated Press ‏@AP 10m10 minutes ago
BREAKING: Germany's Merkel says she sees no way to reverse British EU exit vote.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/brexit-parliament-cameron-merkel-corbyn-1.3655607

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/a-perilous-nationalism-at-brexit?mbid=gnep&intcid=gnep&google_editors_picks=true

Dutch PM Rutte gives delay on Art 50 triggering, because: "England has collapsed politically, monetarily, constitutionally and economically"

^ gets it.

Would be about the only thing he gets tbf

That New Yorker article gets closest to the thread that's been running through my mind - that the thing that has made Britain (or parts of it) a dynamic, exciting, multicultural place are broadly the same factors that have made it a jingoistic, exceptionalist, mistrustful and belligerent place. The twin consequences of the legacy of empire run right through this referendum.

It's amazing how poorly the politicians are coping. For a bunch of scheming power mongers they're exceptionally poor at seizing the moment.

Crabb's trying his best.

Yes. Javid was terrible on Today.

Although maybe he was "good" because he didn't actually say anything other than Crabb's name a lot.

Guys I'm kind of sick of two threads..?

^ me too tbh

Possibly one new consolidated thread needed now that we have moved past the neo-Con era into a period of sustained chaos.

question is who will have the brass balls required to trigger "Article 50: the thread"

John Kerry now making noises about whether Brexit will happen

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/29/john-kerry-brexit-could-be-walked-back-david-cameron

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmGmz05WQAEQVec.jpg

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/29/brexiters-didnt-plan-arsonists-never-carry-water?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Facebook

https://twitter.com/moyeenislam/status/748096432465453057

Not an official Facebook page, is it? It was praising Marine le Pen earlier.

Bleakly comic to imagine reaction of the volksgenossen in left behind by globalization places when they realise their vote has left them with an asian chancellor pursiung yet more punishing austerity... not going to happen though. I expect this is just Crabb and Javed trying to bid up the price of their eventual support for whoever.

Crabb's trying his best.

He needs to come out of his shell more

idk, could be an effective pincer movement with Javid.

I can't see him elevated in a Johnson or May cabinet. Can probably only move sideways.

Pat 'Im never coming back to wherever this is' Glass has resigned after less than 48 hours in the Shadow Cabinet.

ffs!

she wrote to her CLP yesterday to inform them that she was stepping down as an MP at the next election, 24 hours after getting her 'dream job'

dreams that shatter like glass

@ReutersJamie "Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency" - JP Morgan

and another one's gone:

Emma Lewell-Buck has announced she is resigning as a shadow communities minister

He needs to come out of his shell more

Or his closet.

now now

actually no, fuck him

He voted against gay marriage

Oh right

thread shd've been called "UK Politics: Dark, Gritty Reboot"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a6HNXtdvVQ

Cameron telling Corbyn to resign atm. Presumably an attempt at reverse psychology.

to be fair to stephen crabb mp he had to clarify that he doesn't believe in or endorse the "gay cure" only because he has links to an organisaton that financially supported a conference on the subject

lots of labour mps have been very clear about their sympathy with cameron over the years so he's just returning the favour I guess

"That New Yorker article gets closest to the thread that's been running through my mind - that the thing that has made Britain (or parts of it) a dynamic, exciting, multicultural place are broadly the same factors that have made it a jingoistic, exceptionalist, mistrustful and belligerent place. The twin consequences of the legacy of empire run right through this referendum."

always the way. anything challenging the established order will always come with a parallel, nasty reactionary wave waiting to explode.

could just be my own feelings, but does feel like there is a lot of fear and tension in the air right now. cant imagine what its like elsewhere in the country, outside of london.

It might take the queens intervention for this not to end terrible - and that depends on whether leave voters will listen to her.

If you read the Mail you'd think every thing was pretty much fine. No coverage of the financial collapse or nowt.

If the Remain campaign had talked about the consequences for weekly bin collections they'd have won by a landslide.

the plp are still waiting for someone to take their byn away tbh

best possible outcome would be the queen somehow saying in a binding way i decree u must have a do-over thereby also exploding the existence of the monarchy?

Alan Duncan describing Bojo as "Silvio Borisconi" was pretty pointed.

> If you read the Mail you'd think every thing was pretty much fine.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-mail-has-explained-what-brexit-means-and-its-readers-seem-shocked--Z1772TI4aNW

sun equivalent:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/the-sun-has-also-got-around-to-telling-its-readers-what-brexit-will-mean-and-they-are-not-happy--WySvafrAVZ

Miliband Minor and Harman calling for Jezza to GTF

I'd suggest that us yanks might start offering you our hands in marriage but I suppose we still need to wait a few months to see if that would be anything more than a frying pan > fire situation.

Good summary: http://piercepenniless.tumblr.com/post/146651963407/keepcorbyn-corbynism-in-its-crisis

@BBCBreaking: UK access to the EU's single market requires freedom of movement, European Council President Donald Tusk says http://bbc.in/292x3B0

Not much breaking about that, tbh.

braek tory hearts news maybe. Though important because it's Tusk, who is apparently the one who matters most here (Merkel aside)

xp haha yeah its a non-starter. UK have nothing to negotiate with. Seeing a few things around how Paris and Berlin could carve out the London Banking industry for themselves in the coming years.

Look at the news to read how Corbyn has resigned yet the man hangs on - and seems to be unruffled so far.

The road to deselection sounds long but looks like the only one left if Corbyn hangs on for long enough to win the contest. Only the unions can save the Lab right I think something something Clause 4 something something.

'This is f***ing personal': Labour rebel Jess Phillips screams at Corbyn's right-hand man Seumas Milne after left-winger 'threatened to take a blow-torch to her neck'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3665343/This-f-ing-personal-Labour-rebel-Jess-Phillips-screams-Corbyn-s-right-hand-man-Seumas-Milne-left-winger-threatened-blow-torch-neck.html

this has to be a new low in the field of intentionally misleading headlines, right? (IE the alleged left-winger who threatened Phillips is some random on twitter, not Milne)

https://twitter.com/b_judah/status/748097437047332864

Ben Judah ‏@b_judah 2h2 hours ago Hackney, London

It is crucial to understand EU must at all costs stop Le Pen winning in 2017. Best way to do this? Reward France the banks and their taxes.

Yeah, saw that earlier, with screengrabbed headline, and even in today's "all bets are off" times, it seemed worth checking.

xpost

xps
Corbyn probably won't win even if he hangs on. The inevitable moderate/right join-the-labour-party campaign/push is already beginning. Normally it'd stand no chance of getting the numbers to beat the Corbyn membership, but this isn't normal.

there seem to be a fair number of centrist or centre-right journalists and commentators and celebs tweeting about how they are joining Labour specifically to vote against Corbyn, partly because they are disillusioned with the tories after brexit - don't know if that represents a movement bigger thana handful of high profile ppl on twitter though. also, seems like mail and spectator journalists tweeting about joining to axe Corbyn could rally wavering Labour party members behind him if anything.

It's crazy how hated jess Philips is - she's known by assholes all over the world from right wing YouTube videos. It's troubling that all she did was laugh at a Tory who claimed men are underrepresented in parliament and all of a sudden she's on everyone's hit list. I've seen Americans bring her up who can't name the uk prime minister, never mind any other mp.

xp
I think that'll take off once there's a candidate and it'll define the future of Labour - this will be sold as basic civic duty to everyone:

1. join labour
2. kill corbyn
3. provide effective opposition
4. save the nation

If Corbyn (or the other candidate for that matter) loses on member votes but wins after £3 votes are carried then there's a whole new clusterfuck in the making.

I can't really see, from a practical view, how Corbyn can possibly carry on here. Like, what does he actually do if he wins? They can't deselect 3/4 of their MPs.

self xp

sorry, forgot to add

3.5 have an open and honest conversation about people's very real fears concerning immigration

In some ways it's easier to sell the idea of "not Corbyn" than an actual candidate with baggage. People are signing up without any idea who they're supposed to be supporting. There will be a major recruitment drive, and efforts have started already, but getting Spectator columnists or high-profile wet Tories piling in runs a risk of inflaming the left even further.

at the risk of enraging people, http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/article-50

5. disengage from politics again for the foreseeable

Labour rebel publicity junkie Jess Phillips

@janemerrick23
If your opponent is calling on you to resign, the game is up. #pmqs

Really has been a banner week for liberal journalists too.

assuming Corbyn doesn't resign and that he is on the ballot in the leadership election, the plan seems to be to have a single anti-Corbyn candidate run against him (probably Angela Eagle) rather than multiple challengers? but surely a single challenger means that Eagle becomes the candidate of the Blairite right by default, regardless of her soft-left credentials? it would allow Corbyn to run against the new labour establishment again, point to the fact that his opponent is supported by Blair and by Progress and John McTernan and the most hated elements of the right, that seems like a mistake from the anti-Corbyn camps pov?

Doing it a week before Chilcot when you're backing someone who voted for invading Iraq would also seem to be a mistake tbh.

we can only hope

‏@janemerrick23
I don't think some people quite grasp Cameron's comments. Any Tory leader would want a weak Labour leader to stay in place.

haha, she's *almost* there xxxp

oh wait, am I misreading her, and she *does* get that Cameron knows his remarks make it more likely Corbyn will stay? anyway.

Doesn't say who told him this but...

Robert Peston ‏@Peston 2m2 minutes ago

I am told 13,000 people joined Labour last week, with 60% giving the reason they are "supporting Corbyn"

I hope that's true, I'm pretty much at the stage of ignoring any Labour leadership related tweet from a pundit that includes the phrases "I am told", "I understand" "a source tells me" etc

Constant bitter leadership battles gonna leave labour rolling in cash tbf can't knock the hustle

wd also be cool if labour right now starts taking seriously the leader election process they insisted on adopting

lol, PLP is turning into a the most sophisticated ponzi scheme ever

@joncraig
Corbyn backers tell me plotters can't agree because can't find candidate who opposed Iraq war. Claim they need that with Chilcot next week.

That one actually sounds credible.

Yep, only about a third of the MPs left backed Iraq iirc but pretty much all the big names. Would need one of the 2010 / 2015 intake really.

The Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, has said he will oppose any attempts to hold talks with Scotland over its EU membership in the wake of Brexit.

Speaking as Nicola Sturgeon arrived on the second day of an emergency summit in Brussels, Mr Rajoy said that "if the UK goes, Scotland goes too".

Not unexpected.

lol a shortage of people who took a principled stance on iraq among the corbyn-haters eh? Gee wiz, hot dog, etc

Would need one of the 2010 / 2015 intake really

2005 intake would be okay surely?

Possibly but apart from Sadiq, who is there?

Filter MPs who have not alienated Corbyn supporters, voted against Iraq, have extensive experience, have demonstrated some degree willingness towards cross-party collaboration and who aren't full JC acolytes and you are pretty much left with Graham Allen, who i would stick a fiver on if enough people knew who he was for anyone to be offering odds.

Dawn Butler joined in 2005 but is unlikely to appeal to anyone with Very Real Concerns about immigration, Mary Creagh ran a hopeless campaign last time and Jamie Reed...

In his maiden speech, Reed declared himself to be a Jedi

some sites are offering 100/1 on Clive Lewis becoming the next leader, which seems worth a fiver (don't think he's likely to become leader if Corbyn goes this year, but I can see a scenario where Corbyn wins re-election, staggers on for another three or four years and then hands over to Lewis as younger/more telegenic candidate)

remember to filter also for charisma sex appeal and magic

Unions have still to weigh in.

Lewis was born in London but grew up on a council estate in Northampton. He studied economics at the University of Bradford before being elected to various student union roles and then serving as vice president of the National Union of Students. Lewis then worked as a TV reporter for BBC News, becoming BBC Look East's chief political correspondent. He was also one of the Labour government's National Black Role Models. In 2006, he passed out of Sandhurst as an infantry officer with the Territorial Army, and he served a three month tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2009.

Selected as a candidate for Norwich South in 2011, Lewis often broke the party line on issues including nuclear weapons, tuition fees and immigration. Describing himself as a "proud socialist", he was elected by a comfortable margin as a MP for Norwich South. He was subsequently appointed as the Chair of the Humanist APPG. During the 2015 Labour leadership election, he was one of 36 MPs to nominate Jeremy Corbyn, and remains a strong supporter of him. He is currently Labour's shadow defence secretary

That does appear to appeal to a lot of different voting groups.

In April 2015, Lewis made controversial comments when, in an interview for the New Statesman, he said (in jest), in response to a question on whether he was taking his upcoming victory for granted, he would only lose if he was "caught with [his] pants down behind a goat with Ed Miliband at the other end". He subsequently apologised for the remark, saying he was "sincerely sorry" if anyone had been offended by the comment.

Clive Lewis: hotter than Chuka....

He's also a very good public speaker fwiw.

image that the bbc website used to accompany its story about the goat joke:

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/82384000/jpg/_82384899_labour_goat_624-2.jpg

I like how in 2016 discussions about effective opposition don't have to touch on policies

Angela Eagle looks too much like Boris #challengingoptics

yeah Lewis was pretty impressive when I saw him speak - I'd thought about him for that 3 yrs Corbyn + handover hypothetical.

wd look forward to him having an open and honest conversation about people's very real concerns

I can't see how someone who voted for the Iraq war could be trusted to respond to the criticisms. That's assuming it's hard in it's approach (which I think it has to be given the delays). If it's a whitewash we can't trust blairites to object.

xp, part of Lewis' appeal is that he was vocally opposed to the rightward shift in immigration rhetoric underr Brown and Miliband and has continued that as an MP.

http://www.clivelewis.org/ukip_and_immigration_policy

He'd be considerably further to the left than almost any of the Labour rebels on most things.

I'd forgotten about this, make him leader this instant imo:

https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/322624105083985920

(sorry for more non-policy based posting)

(that's from 2013 before either of them became MPs to be clear)

(I didn't mean discussions on here tbf)

and yeah quality tweet

great tweet, primed for pmqs

not sure i like the nudge nudge wink deployment of Open And Honest Discussion About Immigration; it feels like conceding a point

A1 tweet, Clive for leader

more generally, Keir Starmer seems plausible - what's the case against? not around parliament long enough? Bit wooden?

xpost

how so? just a legitimate dig at Dickensian grotesques like Frank Field whose main political point since 2010 has been "Labour needs to seem more racist". I mean, I assume he means "seem".

it's like "hard-working families", Nu Labour deserve some credit for developing some of the best dog whistles of the last decade

There is literally no difference between seeming and being more racist

by the by anyone read anything decent projecting how things on the whole might look in a months time (Spoilers)? This collapse of British politics is taking too long for my liking.

What are you hoping to emerge from the rubble of British politics?

There is no next series

If there is it'll be with a whole new cast, Fargo style

richard dawkins has a hot take for you all...

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/boris-johnson-prime-minister-brexit-second-eu-referendum

I mean, the ghost of Iraq coming back to haunt everyone is such an awesome callback, well done writers, A+

xpost

buck up kids, some of us got thru the whole Thatcher era

Well that's the problem, can't see any way forward for labour as currently constituted and a split party seems just as useless in real terms. Fight for Tory leadership in the midst of Brexit furore could potentially lead to a similar implosion.

Can't really see anything beyond that.

xps

It is impossible to doubt that, if the referendum were to be held again today, the knife-edge “Leave” majority would be reversed and “Remain” would win handsomely.

Dorks brings it right out of the gate

Richard Dawkins: Ignoramuses should have no say on our EU membership—and that includes me

Boris has broken virtually every promise he's ever made so I assume the likelihood of a second referendum is basically 1.

This collapse of British politics is taking too long for my liking.

a sentence that has been highly relatable for at least 200 years

We are a parliamentary democracy, not a mob-rule plebiscite democracy (yob-rule, one might say, in the light of Nigel Farage’s oafish grin).

Picturing the self-satisfied grin as he wrote this. Sick in my mouth.

Yeah but it feels so close! The most devastating eventuality would be things just somehow limping on in a some malformed version of the status-quo

Another highly relatable sentence

that's how it's felt since 1979 tbh

when Dorks says "referendums are bad we need another referendum" I just wanted to phone the relevant social services crisis team tbh

But this time for sure....

xp

Yeah I'll just save you the trouble.

BBC Newsnight ‏@BBCNewsnight 2m2 minutes ago
45 out of 50 constituency Labour party chairs contacted by #newsnight say they still back Jeremy Corbyn - and many are furious at Labour MPs

Labour rebels keen to oust Jeremy Corbyn are investigating whether they would have a legal case for using the party’s name if they formed a breakaway group in parliament, and have set up a website to try to gain support of “moderate” members.

“It comes down to what would be the legalities around retaining the name ‘the Labour party’,” one MP told the Guardian, in the latest evidence that Corbyn’s detractors are ready to use every weapon in their armoury in the escalating war in the party.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/anti-corbyn-labour-mps-plan-breakaway-group-in-parliament

"never mind the principles, just give us the Trademark"

If there was really that much support for a (lol) Moderate Party or whatever then there would easily be enough three quidders to beat Corbyn.

9 Ways In Which The Labour Party Resemble mid-1980s Deep Purple

what would you even call a Labour party that hated working class voters?

the Stipend party?

imagining something like how Bobby G got the rights to the name "Bucks Fizz" so the other three have to tour as " Cheryl Baker, Mike Nolan and Jay Aston, formerly of BUCKS FIZZ"

I don't want to say I'd be happy with the Parliamentary Labour Party and the Labour Party, but if you do want a whatever-the-cost build-things-from-the-ground-up Labour Party, that's one way to do it.

we're now at full "Corbyn = Gandalf, PLP = Balrog"

Continuity Labour Party / Real Labour Party split has a ring to it.

xxxp Bobby Gillespie owns the name rights to Bucks Fizz?

Workers by Hand/Workers by Brain

This is fucking insane. They don't have enough time to form a new party, attract funding, choose a leader and get their act together before any snap election. In the event of Corbyn being annihilated in a snap election he would even now surely stand down. So why destroy a party in order to win an election you wouldn't be able to win in either eventuality?

something something land of make believe amirite?

because they're crazed ideological extremists

xp

Pure spite.

all this reminds me that the rump of the Liberal Party that rejected the merger with the SDP in 1988 still exists and insists that it is the legitimate successor to Gladstone, Asquith et al:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Party_(UK,_1989)

still not over how the anti-corbyn brigade has ensured that political conversation over the last 3 days has been labour's contortions rather than the kicking the tories sorely need

xp
nice! clinging on to 33 councillors

ALso, see SDP councillors since 1999:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_(UK,_1990%E2%80%93present)

what's wrong with "new labour"?

Why Angela Eagle is exactly what Labour needs
by
John McTernan

still not over how the anti-corbyn brigade has ensured that political conversation over the last 3 days has been labour's contortions rather than the kicking the tories sorely need

i admittedly don't know a great deal about parliamentary intrigue, but yeah why is everyone -- even cameron! -- shitting on corbyn now? he didn't call the referendum

Have there been any non-idiotic thought experiments regarding what a net positive exit from the EU could ultimately look like?

This is a terrifyingly batshit vision of Singapore with worse weather: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/28/now-the-vote-is-over-lets-move-on-with-six-steps-to-a-bright-fut/

"Finally, keep immigration at high levels. Many people who voted for Brexit wanted it to come down, but that is a debate for another day."

Yes, i think the idea has always been that if you can combine the culture and corporate / legal security of the UK with ultra-low taxes, loose employment laws and a concerted effort to shift away from reliance on traditional markets you can future-proof the UK against a declining Europe and aim to compete head-to-head with Singapore, Dubai and Shanghai as a tech / financial services hub.

Part of the challenge is that Singapore, Dubai, Shanghai and all effectively cities rather than complex nation states. Some people have suggested it could give a boost to manufacturing as well but nobody really seems to have sketched out how. The general idea is that the West is held back by the social welfare and will get steamrollered by 'ruthless' Asian capital if it doesn't get in the same lane.

And that's just the PLP's stance

thaaaaat's right - it was jeremy hunt who presumably is still seriously considering offering himself as a candidate for conservative leader last year who was banging on about how the british needed to work harder: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/05/hunt-tax-credit-cuts-make-britons-work-like-chinese-or-americans

Future proof it for the fuckers that is, not for us. Increasingly dreading this EEA option, which is essentially "Europe without the employment or consumer protections"

xps
right - that's how the Raab, Britannia Unchained sort of Brexiter wants it to play out right? Fuck it, go all the way, get Nick Land in as a Spad.

LOOOOL that Sarah Vine email. Marina Hyde: 'Claire Blunderwood'.

Dubai, Singapore and China are also military/totalitarian states (actually don't know enough about Dubai but its too small). Doubt the Unchained guys could organise the repression of opposition that would be needed.

Dubai is an absolute monarchy that runs along technocratic lines, more or less. That's the thing - how do you get anyone other than Londoners - who are among the likely to be the most hostile to it anyway - to vote for it. You have to present it as an inevitability and remove any sense that an alternative is viable. It is a pipedream in its pure form but elements will be forced through.

simple "abolish minimum wage/force unemployed loafers into jobs" policy shd carry enough popular support

https://cucrblog.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/photo-1.jpg

hoarding for a building that is actually being built at old st roundabout as we type

such piquant self-awareness

it is actually a factory making white collars though

Other than maybe Sturgeon, do any hyper-effective machine politicians exist in the UK any more or are we reduced to literally everyone running around like headless chickens?

we like our politicians like the Eng football team

suspect Frank Field is not fully organic

Watson not standing against Corbyn according to Sky.

and watson apparently says that corbyn wants to quit but mcdonnell won't let him

That's the thing - how do you get anyone other than Londoners - who are among the likely to be the most hostile to it anyway - to vote for it.

people just have tho

Do what he says! Do what he says!

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfhxI_IxJnhuUWm58_R0qAXw97jGl0fGPqumyrHLRAAiPiHRqbtA:uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/blazing-saddles-640.jpg%3Fquality%3D90

(xp)

I thought it was Seamus Milne who was supposedly preventing Corbyn from resigning?

Two little urchins with thick-ass East London accents just pulled up on some kind of weird go-kart and offered to take away the three sacks of rubble I've had in my front garden for six weeks. How much do you want for it? I said. 'A tenner'. Do you have a truck? I asked, smirking at them. They gestured to their weird go-kart. "Nah we'll use this." OK. What are you going to use it for? "We need to harden up our garden". I keep a straight face. OK go on then. Those strong little boys, one about 8, the other maybe 12, hoisted these incredibly heavy sacks of rubble up into their thingy, balancing one in their laps, and pootled off. I'm telling you it's a sign. It won't be long before the rag and bone man starts coming round.

Where I live you get scrapper vans circulating the estate every day, occasionally some guy shouting "any old iron". When I got a new cooker last year the old one was gone in minutes.

Real England FTW

Entrepreneurial frontiersmen of the new economy.

Leave anything outside in Hackney and it will be gone in ten minutes.

There are people who roam around the streets looking for anything they can conceivably sell or use themselves. It came in pretty handy when i was moving out. There's something enormously grim about people very politely asking if they can sort through black bags of your rubbish to see if they can find a pair of shoes that will fit them.

Angela Eagle has now said she won't stand against Corbyn.

not only do we have scrappers in Hull but they still use a horse and cart

go-kartoneros

Lol! It is probably a few years since I've seen the old trap and cart variety scrapper, but I've seen plenty of them.

Saw the full trap and cart variety in Hounslow a couple of years ago, but none since then

Kevin SchofieldVerified ‏@PolhomeEditor
Angela Eagle will NOT challenge Jeremy Corbyn. She will only stand when/if there is a contest. "It's a Mexican stand-off", says senior MP.

so does this mean someone will stand as a stalking horse? Corbyn's people seem to be pushing for rebels to put up or shut up and start a leadership challenge, would his opponents prefer that we have a few more days/weeks of Corbyn trying to struggle on without support from PLP to emphasise that his position is untenable? or is it just Eagle's reluctance to be seen as disloyal (and the pressure she's under from her local party)? if the latter, it seems pretty hollow/unconvincing given the fact that a contest of some sort now seems inevitable.

Recycling in that manner would be a healthy thing to have come back but it may just reflect how broke some people are right now. Would be good to get back to a paradigm where things were built to last and be repairable rather than throwing everything away all the time.
When the traveller park up was here they had a not very safe method of smelting copper fro various sources which stank the place out.

But there was some comment on people relearning various crafts thanks to recessions etc. Would at least mean they were practising some forms of self reliant activity. Learning to sew, grow your own veg, repair your own car whatever. On the other hand watching Hidden Killers of the Post-war Home talking about how dodgy some people's attempts at d.i.y. when it was first coming to prominence were one hopes that might be something that wouldn't repeat.

Could be some good come of things though or am I pollyannaing?

Fwiw, since everyone's a brexpert or Nostradamus these days, but this is bleak.

@ DPJHodges: Told Angela Eagle will declare tomorrow at 3.00 pm.

corbyn must look a wee bit deranged to the great_british_public at this point

his opponents have been successful in spinning this as "Corbyn vs almost all of his MPs" rather than "almost all Labour MPs vs the Labour membership", unfortunately.

crace (lol) commons sketch for the guardian:

"He rose in almost total silence, his face twisted in anger: the dividing line between stubborn ambition and personal principle has become increasingly opaque."

this idea that his refusal to resign is a sign of his ego or personal ambition: this seems crazy to me, everything I've read leads me to think that, at a personal level, Corbyn would have been much happier continuing to pootle along as a back-bencher, attending to his pet causes, but feels duty bound to fight on now the leadership has fallen into his lap. but his opponents are pushing the arrogant ego-manic angle hard, can see how it might look that way to a lot of people.

must've been hard for the PLP to spin this given the media's adoration of Corbyn

Goes beyond "Corbyn the egomaniac" into "Corbyn the personality cult" when they want to dismiss his supporters. How you can simultaneously accuse someone of cultivating a personality cult and not having a personality, i don't know.

He looked stubborn, wildly overoptimistic and pig-headed but idk if those are values that the British public disdains more than the bullying / cowardice / elitism / incompetence of the plotters. Everyone comes out of this looking terrible.

I think it would leave him heartbroken if the members didn't get to vote.

announcement of an announcement: angela eagle press conference tomorrow at 3

xps I know that being a horrible sneering cunt is part of the job description for a parliamentary sketch writer, but Crace is something else, just vile

sweet, we can have a repeat of "everybody who votes for Corbyn is a misogynist"

oh good, a return to recycling, self-reliance and crafts, using nothing but one's own honest hard-working hands and the copper out of people's phone lines and school roofs

good luck Labour Party, wish I could see a way for you to unfuck yourself, for the media to become something other than a pack of right-wing hyenas, etc

hm that probably read as anti-traveller, but have had both of those happen round here recently and as far as I know neither was done by travellers

...I mean that it probably sounded anti-traveller because Stevo's post which I was replying to mentioned travellers, not just because...

I am digging a p. deep hole here huh

this small gang of irreconcilables

Labour paper The Grauniad on Corbyn's enemies

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/29/12060072/brexit-economic-forecast-economist

economics intelligence unit view on what the brexit will mean for the british economy in next few years told in 7 tweets. grim reading.

worth looking at his twitter feed as he offers additional comments re: rise of radical right after uk makes some concessions to Europe on migration in order to get (somewhat reduced) access to the European economic area

hear, hear
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmJAsBTXIAQ6INS.jpg

that is from when she was standing for deputy leadership and Corbyn was standing for leadership, right? I remember getting that email at the time.

Union statement on Corbyn:

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/748235818758709248

best way to clear the air after a leadership election would be for every MP who supports the loser to resign from the party. maybe take cyanide.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2016/06/uk-map-custom-regions-map1-1024x983.jpg&w=1484

<I>“It’s a great tragedy. He does have a members’ mandate, but those members who join a political party know that you also need a parliamentary mandate if you’re to form a government,” Watson told the BBC.

“You have to have the authority of the members and your members of parliament, and I’m afraid he doesn’t have that with our MPs.”</I>

mmmmonomaniacal dissonance

xp because of the Wangland...

can you take your meme and throttle it please

https://twitter.com/aidankerrpol/status/748249004383801344

is that Alan Johnson the MP for a third of a city that voted to Leave by a margin of 2 to 1?

I never liked that flat-footed wanker Johnson. The Tories lead is not exactly "way ahead" either.

Defiant Tom Watson has warned plotting Labour MPs that Jeremy Corbyn will be their leader for at least a decade.

Speaking to the Mirror, Labour’s new deputy leader slapped down “disrespectful” backbenchers already discussing ways to bring down his new boss.

“We’ve got another decade of Jeremy - at least,” Mr Watson said.

sep 2015

Johnson's right tho, "anti-austerity" is not a policy like "we hate our leader" is

otoh i am prepared to believe basically anything said about Seumas Milne

I am sure Corbyn could have done better than Milne, but probably from a very short shortlist of people he can actually trust.

he should probably choose a moment to step down for his own dignity now. these clowns won't be stopped, we're heading for the logical conclusion of post-Thatcher politics, vote for the face of the free market you find most amenable. the middle England Labour voters can continue to salve their consciences by talking about electability and maybe even winning the occasional election so that they can have 5 years of state charity projects that do fuck all to change the structural misery of the poorest people in this country, and we can slide inexorably into a new Victorian economics

which the EU has been a lightly applied handbrake to for the last few years

Alan Johnson in Sep 2014:

At the beginning of this parliament the Labour party lost precious months conducting an overlong leadership campaign that allowed the coalition government to develop its big fat lie about the global recession, while we in Labour examined our collective navel. The question of the leadership was settled then. It must not be re-opened.

Miliband will lead us into an election that I am convinced we can win.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmJaS7SWkAAkda4.jpg

my mouth is opening and closing and nothing is coming out @ that

So many MPs showing their true colours atm but, tbf to Reed, he has never made any attempt to hide his.

yes he has form:

https://twitter.com/jreedmp/status/642649854624309248

have to admit I had no idea who he was until wikipedia revealed he was the jedi guy

He also helped out his party leader, Ed Miliband, who declared he felt "respect" on seeing a white van, following Emily Thornberry's "White Van Gate" tweet prior to the Rochester and Strood by-election, 2014 result, stating during PMQs: "When I see a white van, I wonder whether it's my father or my brother who is driving".

Photocopy of his arse attached.

imagine being a politician whose hobby-horse is nuclear energy

um i follow paul mason on twitter now. and he actually addresses his followers as "comrades"? unironically? do i have that right?

considering unfollowing him. preferred when he was a journalist journalist

I like him tbh

He's gone a bit feral.

his futurism is bobbins imo

has he been drinking tonight

Paul Mason Retweeted
SANamtab: @jreedmp enjoy deselection, traitor

ooft.

he did a pleasantly mad speech/interview thingy on gravity's rainbow

he's one of us really

start posting to ilx, paul

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/leave-donor-plans-new-party-to-replace-ukip-without-farage

cannot even comprehend the pain i want this cunt to suffer before his death

i'm actually panicking a bit, like panicking, like physically

I've had a few panic attacks this week and terrible acid anxiety in my stomach and migraines like crazy.

I went ti my meditation class tonight and yoga last night. It helped.

He is essentially right that UKIP can't continue as a viable party when it's manned primarily by ex-BNP lumps and a variety of elderly eccentrics. The thought of an organised, well-funded and 'legitimate' far right springing up is pretty scary but Banks is a deeply unpleasant man who can't keep his trap shut so he'll hopefully poison the chances of any new party being taken seriously. Farage isn't giving up without a fight so they can argue amongst themselves for a while.

It was heartening to see that another of Leave's biggest donors lost £330m in the subsequent downturn.

Small crumbs of comfort. Things are looking so fucking bleak now that a hideous right-wing Gove-Johnson-led perpetual Tory government sticking with austerity and trying to appease leave voters with some kind of immigration caps is beginning to look like *the best* we can hope for. Argh.

Joking around with my workmates from EU countries, "You can always go to Scotland! They will welcome you with open arms there!" My heart's not really in it though.

So Theresa May looking good in some polling for the Tory leadership that I just saw and promptly forgot the source and my phone died.

"thatcher 2: electric boogaloo"

3 results (0.47 seconds)

Lots of glowing press, with the FT asking if she was "Britain's Merkel".

She hasn't had that many boosters in the papers for a couple of years but the stop-Boris campaign and need for a perceived calm head has changed that.

Lots of glowing press, with the FT asking if she was "Britain's Merkel".

No way, that's obviously Nicola Sturgeon.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/06/27/de-toxifying-the-uks-eu-exit-process-a-multi-national-compromise-is-possible/

xp was literally just reading a quote from a Labour source describing Angela Eagle as "Britain's Merkel"

though I guess Eagle does project an aura of low-key, non-hectoring even-temperedness that is quite Merkel-esque

Sounds like pre-Bismarck Germany and Austria, in this customs union or that but not in the Holy Roman Empire, being an elector or not, could even be room for freistadt London. Makes for interesting maps in the penguin atlas of world history but sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare.

worth remembering that the BNP had 50 something councillors elected in 2008 and by 2015 were wiped off the map completely? mainly because of what ShariVari is saying about Banks; the then-leader couldn't keep his mouth shut about his true feelings. they rise, they get exposure, they die; that's the British way with these clowns. i mean thus far anyway.

on Singapore:

What about Singapore? This is the one that really gets on my nerves. A lot of right-wing people imagine that Singapore is a libertarian utopia because the public sector share of GDP is quite low. But this is silly. Singapore doesn’t have big spending ministries, but it does have a huge sovereign-wealth fund that owns major industrial and infrastructure projects in the country as well as financial investments worldwide. Rather than pay welfare benefits out of tax money, Singapore made it compulsory to pay into private insurance, through the so-called central provident fund, a little like a much more comprehensive version of Obamacare. Oh, and basically everyone lives in a council flat.

After independence (from Malaysia, and Britain) the Singaporean political and business class took a joint decision to develop the port as the major regional transport hub, and to take advantage of that to build up industry around it, notably chemicals and computer/semiconductor manufacturing. Their thinking was that economic development in Asia would create a huge opportunity for this role. This worked really well, but it’s worth noting that it was very much a succession of joint decisions by government technocrats, political leaders, and investors rather than some sort of idealised libertarian hands-off process. That is supposedly more true of Hong Kong, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a myth too. You’ll note they didn’t start off by creating a new tariff barrier between their massive port facility and the market it serves.

http://www.harrowell.org.uk/blog/2016/05/15/brexit-strategic-incompetence-for-fun-and-profit/

LOOOOL that Sarah Vine email. Marina Hyde: 'Claire Blunderwood'.

― jedi slimane (suzy), Wednesday, 29 June 2016 16:08 (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

First actual laugh out loud moment since last Thursday on the train this morning.

thanks for that LSE link, stet.

Great to see the parliament benches all having such a great laugh though. What a great bunch of lads.

https://twitter.com/ormondroyd/status/747160476870651904

Q: How many Brexiters does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: We never said there was a lightbulb.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmG2SZ0WQAASpAq.jpg

Dan Hodges, who seems to be neck and neck with George Eaton as the plotters' favourite leaking tool, is suggesting that Eagle won't declare but Own Smith will.

Smith didn't vote for Iraq as he wasn't elected until 2010 but was one of the first to come out in favour of 'a progressive case for ending free movement'.

Owen*

I like the bit in jamie reed mp's letter where he's like "now we've exited the eu" and would like him to type another one after someone tells him how far we have to go still

YouGov has May 17 points clear of Johnson in the leadership contest that matters more. Johnson's favourability rating has apparently dropped 18%.

May has form for wanting to obliterate Human Rights legislation and it was only EU law being knit into devolution and the Good Friday Agreement that stopped her from doing it. Boris hasn't attended Parliament since the vote result.

worth remembering that the BNP had 50 something councillors elected in 2008 and by 2015 were wiped off the map completely? mainly because of what ShariVari is saying about Banks; the then-leader couldn't keep his mouth shut about his true feelings. they rise, they get exposure, they die; that's the British way with these clowns. i mean thus far anyway.

It's because all the racists voted UKIP instead.

I'd believe some random fairground psychic before I believe that YouGov poll, but I suspect May will outperform Johnson in the debates because she can slip between authoritarian and touchy-feely with relative ease. Boris only has one register and even that is fundamentally a register for good times and not leading us through the biggest crisis since the war.

They probably need another Leaver to declare if they really want to stop Boris, anyone who can split the Eurosceptic vote.

Talking of questionable YouGov polls, this one on who Labour voters would replace Corbyn with if he stepped down is a treat:

http://i.imgur.com/UlsXCDc.jpg

Eagle and Smith are the least popular of the named options.

Now Gove's throwing his hat into the ring because he's reluctantly come to the conclusion that Boris is evil.

Fuck me, this is getting nuts.

"I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership."

It's no May for certain, unless Johnson drops out, no?

no=now

Sorry, still processing

Just mental.

STAB IN THE BACK!

Leadsome also in!

Eagerly awaiting the Sarah Vine column that makes it all about her.

Yes surely this is May, with Gove as Chanx and Osborne as Foreign.

Gove as chancellor Jesus Christ almighty.

DREAM TEAM

Still can't quite work out how May would square her Remain position with ongoing Brexit.

She'll push for withdrawal from European Convention for Human Rights for sure, which will help get at least some of the brexiteers onside with her..

Can't get that without fucking up devolution and NI even more.

Theresa May: "Boris did a deal with the Germans.....The last time he did, he came back with three nearly new water cannon."

Pitching on civil liberty is an odd look for her.

Also said she will not pull out of ECHR so bad news for fans of hanging.

hey guys 1 of the candidates is called crab

Gove May Crabb Johnson

^ expecting numbers on that

with a side order of Fox Hunt

A confederacy of cockfarmers

Gove has the support of Murdoch right? Boris might not be the sure bet we all thought. Thankfully. Not that I want Gove either.

Boris may not even stand now.

May backtracking on ECHR, but doubling-down on "free market with no free movement" fantasy. Is anybody anywhere going to sit them down and explain this to them?

Gove is a Brexit true believer, right? I'd been consoling myself with the idea that May or Johnson would probably end up compromising on some version of EEA status, but Gove could just blow everything up.

Yes, Gove is true out afaict

Don't think it'll be Gove. In fact, I think there's a decent chance that it may not even get to a membership vote, with May being the sole candidate after the others drop out in return for preferment, a bit like with Michael Howard.

^ my hot political tip 4 the day

Yeah, Boris is smart enough to want to avoid the madness, Gove just .. isn't.

Hunt is out, backing May

https://vine.co/v/hgbab1H2LH7

Giving it to May without a contest would also provide a helpful contrast with the current uh difficulties afflicting Labour. Expect to see this option getting quite a push in the media in forthcoming days.

How is BJ's retreat and silence since the vote being perceived by Tory mp's? Are you there no 'you wanted this, show yourself' questions? Or are they mostly ignoring him? Trying to parse this.

It's difficult to tell as they haven't been very vocal about it, other than the wing that actively wants him to die in a fire. There are certainly some who have questioned his Telegraph stream of consciousness, particularly around the immigration angle, but until he pins his colours to the mast it's not quite clear what people are going to be opposing. His disappearance does feed into a broader trend of 'step back and think about it'.

@jimwaterson
Tory MP Philip Hollobone in the House of Commons formally complaining about Lindsay Lohan's referendum night Twitter attacks on Kettering.

Good luck, Theresa.

can one or more of you please supply a comprehensive bullet-point list of stuff about theresa may pls

* She's bad

Thx SV

i know that, want the deets tho

- * is utterly despicable racist homophobe who is anti-civil liberties, pro-snooping
Fin

she had that rad jacket that gave her the look of someone who would feel at home on the bridge of a star destroyer

it is as i suspected

she blocked Johnson's canon

Here's an example of May in action from 2011, channelling the frustration of the plain people of england at being unable to break-up a foreign family into 'you couldn't make it up' ridicule of the EHCR by, er, making something up: https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/oct/04/theresa-may-wrong-cat-deportation

one to remember when anyone tries to contrast May favourably with dishonest demagogues like Farage or Johnson.

can one or more of you please supply a comprehensive bullet-point list of stuff about theresa may pls

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/votes#welfare

oof

Recently famous for signing off on vans with GO HOME plastered all over them being driven around minority-heavy areas.

She is a die-hard on immigration and has been successful in implementing a lot of bad reform / blocking a lot of positive reform to student visa statuses against strong opposition from Osborne and others. If you were a Little England Leave voter you couldn't really ask for anyone nominally within the remain camp to represent you better.

It's an impressive feat of evil tbh - keeping the Home Office for 6 years in racist paranoid Tory Britain, with the press screaming every time made-up immigration targets are missed, I mean fuck she must have some wolverine indestructible regeneration thing going on.

So who is the lesser of three evils?

boris johnson is improbably the lesser evil i think

however, he probably won't even run

Three heads on the same Hydra TBH

yeah

Still can't quite work out how May would square her Remain position with ongoing Brexit.

That can be spun as "respecting the decision of the British people" without too much trouble. And having not actively campaigned to leave means she'll be better-placed than Gove or Johnson to negotiate with the EU.

It's an impressive feat of evil tbh - keeping the Home Office for 6 years in racist paranoid Tory Britain, with the press screaming every time made-up immigration targets are missed, I mean fuck she must have some wolverine indestructible regeneration thing going on.

I was thinking that, the Home Office tends to chew ministers up and spit them out - how many New Labour Home Secretaries were there? Then I remembered that Cameron kept IDS in a job despite his manifest failings until such point as he knifed him in the front.

I'll bullet point this for you

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/28/who-should-be-the-next-pm-theresa-may-gets-my-vote/

* she definitely deserves snaps for refusing an honorary membership of the Carlton Club, because it doesn’t admit women
* She’s been married to the same man since 1980 (morally sound: check),
* doesn’t have any children (could be a turn-off for some but it does mean she’s less likely to be distracted on the job)
* She cooks a new recipe every week
* she goes to church every Sunday
* she knows there’s more to life than Westminster

:D

That can be spun as "respecting the decision of the British people" without too much trouble.

I get that she can say that (and has done, today), but it seems kind of unprecedented for a government to press ahead year on year with a policy that it doesn't believe in, which it could change, but doesn't. That's the bollocks of referendums and I just have a feeling she'll come unstuck with it. Maybe she'll just be forced to eventually say "actually, I was wrong, and life outside the EU is actually better for Britain."

In her speech she said it just isn't fair how some kids in London speak English only as a second language. FOAD now.

Crime committed on buses rather than by buses.
Such a great set up to not get a single laugh?

I guess I have to do some delving into anti-EEC politicians who became ministers after 1975 handled it.

boris has pulled out

yeah she was pretty quiet during the campaign - 'secret brexiter who acted as moderate remainer out of loyalty' gets support within her party, I think, and works ok with the policy shift.

disappointing 9 minutes in between me saying it and it happening

boris wants to 'stick up for the forgotten*(i think he said forgotten) people in this country' instead.

the legerrnd lives on

Yeah I think Boris knows that a) he won't win and b) the next PM is very likely to be the least popular in British history.

I thought this might be his angle. He has nothing to gain from running and everything from waiting a few years to swoop in to clear up the mess.

May should pull out too, tbh, and let Gove get on with a 7% approval rating in 2018.

boris has pulled out

*snigger*

This is the happiest day since the Referendum. Matt OTM.

I'm sure Boris thinks he will be the PM after the next one, but we'll cross that bridge whenwe come to it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmMV378WMAI3uqU.jpg

^^ from Theresa May this morning. Fuck this shit.

it seems kind of unprecedented for a government to press ahead year on year with a policy that it doesn't believe in, which it could change, but doesn't.

Hence snap GE, which they'll hold if they think Labour can't win it.

if that's the case, at least charisma's not going to be a major deciding factor anymore

Boris phrasing - "that person cannot be me" = "the next PM cannot be as good as me"

wonder who he will back though? not gove obv

eye on the ball...

Corbyn: "Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel than our Muslim friends are for the self-styled Islamic State"

I think he might have just committed seppuku there.

http://reaction.life/boris-undone-newspaper-column/

It seems that the highly confused and implausible Boris version of Leave that emerged in that Daily Telegraph column helped convince Michael Gove that he should challenge Boris for the leadership, or rather it gave those who want to stop Boris the ammunition to persuade Gove that Boris cannot do it. Team Boris is pointing out that Gove read and helped edit the Boris column before it went to press, but that does not preclude him having pushed it through while having doubts.

gove's strategy was not unlike a sprint finish in a bike race - let boris do the work and then nip round him in the last 500 metres

or pushing it through seeing his big chance xp

Boris' strategy looks like convincing your mate to go base jumping with you and having a fag at the top of the building while he plummets to his doom.

I mean if Gove really did push that column through knowing full well it was a turkey then I've got to say I'm impressed.

Theresa May is tacking markedly towards the centre in her campaign launch statement: https://www.facebook.com/TheresaMayForPM/posts/1349767708373332

Jesus.

have tories and labour agreed to alternate rest days and full-on batshit days now

Well Labour anti-semitism report launch leading to charges of anti-semitism and leaving at least one Jewish MP in tears suggests not

lol guess not then

leadsom
gove
may
fox
crabb

our kind of people

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmMOoOCWYAAXJuE.jpg

somebody at work just told me about Boris, I lolled here as fast as I could

look slow down I can't keep up with the comedy

Not a fan of the phrase "Jewish friends", but people getting stoked up about that Corbyn sentence is such disingenuous idiocy - I love people Jewsplaining my needs as a Jew back to me.

On the other hand this Ruth Smeeth thing sounds fucking dark

How on earth do you manage to get yourself reported for antisemitism at the launch of your own antisemitism report? That is genuinely astonishing.

Last night I floated the idea of mandatory reselection of literally everyone in the Commons and that seems like a more and more appealing idea right now.

JUst slightly taken aback that Boris'd bung something as naff as the bus joke into a speech that should be that significant. He wasn't guaging things by whether anybody laughed at it or anything? Like oh yeah got a couple of guffaws i'll stand, no nothing better stand down.
Or is he going to claim he's losing it which is why he's coming out with utter banalities.

sorry did corbyn literally just compare the nation of israel to ISIS on the day the anti-semitism report was launched?

No.

ah ok - his quote sort of looks like that

The point is pretty clearly that a lot of morons on the left expect British Jews to be held accountable for the actions of Israel when they'd be the first to say it's wrong to do the same thing with British Muslims and terrorism.

can't believe some people might be deliberately misinterpreting Corbyn

It wasn't a direct comparison but he really should have thought twice about it under the FFS Don't Mention Hitler rule.

yeah it seems needlessly inflammatory. 'i'd no more expect ordinary Labour voters to be held responsible for the actions of a few Momentum activists than all Italians to be tarnished by what Mussolini did'

'hey it's just a thought experiment'

corbyn making mistake of thinking anyone cares about anti-semitism in labour except as a stick to beat him with lol

I mean, if he'd resigned on Tuesday, release of this report wd be some page 94 shit right now

Not sure why there was a need for the report. You won't keep the morons who go on about this quiet. xp = not sure how much attention its going to get, especially compared to this other report next week.

He does mention Hitler later in fairness - he says FFS Don't Mention Hitler.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/angela-eagle-to-launch-labour-leadership-bid-in-battle-for-the-s/#update-20160630-1136

(scroll down a bit to get the full text)

If you want me I'll be in the Snooker Loopy thread.

@Peston
Am told @angelaeagle may not announce candidacy at 3, so MPs can have "period of reflection" about why they have lost confidence in leader

Has this not been it?

How on earth do you manage to get yourself reported for antisemitism at the launch of your own antisemitism report? That is genuinely astonishing.

Trump has been calling people out on the racism of calling him out on his racism so, y'know.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmJcNx0WkAEIRGo.jpg

Is the PLP just trying to make Corbyn go insane by doing basically nothing and leaking wildly contradictory rumours to idiots like George Eaton in the meantime or wha

Wonder if any of them have a nihilistic desire for Chilcot oblivion to hurry up at this point

corbyn making mistake of thinking anyone cares about anti-semitism in labour except as a stick to beat him with lol

yep.

i dont see it as inflammatory. you cant pretend the two views dont exist, or that they arent frequently intertwined.

left wingers are always held up to near unreachable levels of scrutiny. they have to be absolutely perfect and spotless.

FFS, what is really so wrong about these sentences?

"Our Jewish friends are no more responsible for the actions of Israel or the Netanyahu Government than our Muslim friends are for those of various self-styled Islamic states or organisations.

"Nor should Muslims be regarded as sexist, antisemitic or otherwise suspect, as has become an ugly Islamophobic norm. We judge people on their individual values and actions, not en masse.

“I will continue - as Labour Leader - to pursue the causes of peace and justice in Israel-Palestine, the wider Middle East and all over the world. But those who claim to do so with hateful or inflammatory language do no service to anyone, especially dispossessed and oppressed people in need of better advocacy.

“Of course we as Labour Party members must all be free to criticise and oppose injustice and abuse wherever we find it. But as today's Report recommends, can we please leave Hitler and Nazi metaphors alone (especially in the context of Israel). Why? Because the Shoah is still in people's family experience.

"If every human rights atrocity is described as a Holocaust, Hitler's attempted obliteration of the Jewish people is diminished or de-recognised in our history.

"Other human rights atrocities from African slavery to the killing fields of Cambodia, the Armenian and Rwandan Genocides are all of course to be remembered, but diluting their particularity or comparing degrees of evil does no good.

xp http://youtu.be/7qnd-hdmgfk

jesus christ Corbs nobody's interested in the language of nuance don't you get it?

must admit my first thoughts on Boris were in line with Ewan McGregor's
https://twitter.com/mcgregor_ewan/status/748477453631426560?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
I don't want him anywhere near power, but the lazy cowardly irresponsible twat has helped fuck us all. Get to fucking work on cleaning this shit up and take the fucking blame when the far-right violence ramps up.

why would he do that when cameron isnt going to clean up the shit hes left for everyone either?

That might be the only classy thing Seaumas Milne has written

xp true, Cameron setting the example I guess - he seems to be broadly getting away with walking away from the corpse.

I'm somebody on the 'hard' left who has constantly argued that the left has a problem with anti semitism. And it was rejected within the SSP, the stop the war coalition and the Labour Party. The people of Israel are consistently 'othered' in a way I can't think of other any other people being. And we all tolerate groups that cross into anti-semitism protesting along side us. Whenever I complained about groups or banners which I felt were, if not hateful at least unhelpful, I was just told that this was how people oppose Israel (and apparently the only way to discuss what is happening there). It was never cool. There is, of course, much more anti semitism on the right, but that doesn't excuse the fact that we made a safe space on the left for people who are just antisemitic.

(I should add that I bowed out of politics after the invasion of Iraq, and things might be better now - I just doubt it)

"The people of Israel are consistently 'othered' in a way I can't think of other any other people being."

are you sure about that?

No, I'm not. I'm just having a hard time thinking if a people who are directly associated with the worst actions o their governments in the way Israelis are.

Hold on here did he actually say "self-styled Islamic states"? Not "the self-styled Islamic State"? Then wtf's the problem?

(A rule of thumb I would suggest for the left would be 'if the cause isn't directly related to Israel, don't allow anti-Israel banners etc. People are good at finding reasons why their anti-Israel actions are allowed, but it's basically just the usual conspiracy theories that Israel controls evrything in the Middle East)

Iraq-era was the high-water mark of 'Mossad did it' for the far left IIRC *headdesk*