I've had people say it's a hardening, actually ~ US presidential election 2016 part 9/11 never forget

still, somehow

TY

No

y'all don't know what bottoms are

Hey, FUCK YOU.

it's hardening's illusions I recall

Oh, sorry...got caught up in the moment there

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-adviser-son-post-image-trump-s-deplorables-featuring-white-n646431

Prominently featured over Trump's right shoulder: popular white nationalist symbol, Pepe the Frog.

"Pepe the Frog is a huge favorite white supremacist meme," Heidi Beirich of the Southern Poverty Law Center told NBC News of the meme.

While Pepe the Frog may not be a household name, the meme is known to members of the alt-right on the internet.

"It's constantly used in those circles," Beirich said. "The white nationalists are gonna love this because they're gonna feel like 'yeah we're in there with Trump, there's Pepe the Frog.'"

that is a weird reading of pepe the frog

It's not really usable as a campaign issue, because no Democrat will be able to say the words "Pepe the Frog" without breaking into hysterical laughter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ASRlzeLg0U

Here is how Trump responded to the question: “You have one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district, 40 Wall Street. Did you have any damage? What’s happening down there?”

“40 Wall Street actually was the second-tallest building in downtown Manhattan, and it was actually, before the World Trade Center, was the tallest. And then, when they built the World Trade Center, it became known as the second-tallest. And now it’s the tallest.”

none of this even seems real

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.52958584.7208/mp%2C550x550%2Cgloss%2Cffffff%2Ct.3u6.jpg

http://igcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t51.2885-15/11430328_998558706845369_1530897226_n.jpg

when reached for comment, paul ryan choked back tears and said "feels bad man"

I feel bad for Matt Furie re: Pepe

xps holy shit that audio is massively fucking offensive

i don't understand how that audio just surfaced yesterday but whatever. it just reaffirms what we already know -- he is a frightening narcissist

the thread title this election deserves

i'd prefer "the economy collapsed eight years ago and look at americans kiss rich ass"

How about: "Seriously, America? Fuck you."

https://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2016/09/12/polarization-written-on-the-body-google/

https://familyinequality.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/trump-margin-searches.jpg?w=500

dorkfish?

xps yeah how did that audio just get discovered? not that it matters

#HillarysBodyDouble is trending on Twitter

lol i was just coming here with this

https://twitter.com/lyz_estrada/status/775138350030139392

how are these people so crazy. why does HRC make people crazy. what is it about her. it's misogyny but not just that. the shit other woman politicians get is not like this.

it's a 90s thing you should be glad you don't understand

re other women politicians : if they had as much power as HRC, they'd get shit like her too

Superpredators 4 Hillary

So this is still a thing: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57d66670e4b0273330ac45d0

Of course it is. Dead-enders carry the label for a reason.

it's called "filling column inches"

(but really, what an awesome candidate HRC has proven to be just since July! great job, Dems!)

the shit other woman politicians get is not like this.

Every Democrat who has run for President since Clinton has received this sort of conspiracy treatment.

yep. Swift Boat Veterans!

saw this making the rounds

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-blackface-photo/

awesome, doesn't look even a little bit like Bill. that rodeo pic is p funny tho

Yeah, anyone who bought that just reeeeally wanted to.

yet her opponent has actually said verifiably racist shit over and over and is facing a real-life rape trial. hmm

Every Democrat who has run for President since Clinton has received this sort of conspiracy treatment.

yeah this treatment works! it sells books, gets the base rabid, helps undermine the candidate regardless of how ridiculous it is. there's no reason for them to stop.

are there identifiable masterminds? i want to read a like 8000 word NYRB piece about the consistent names behind the ginned up conspiracies, how the PACs connect, whodunit basically. it's too consistent to be random.

it's not really a mystery is it?

Related to that HuffPo-piece, saw a depressing 538-piece today. Clinton is down with millennial, the group also fueling Bernie Sanders. But the votes hasn't gone to Jill Stein, as the HuffPo says, but twice as many has gone to Gary Johnson. Which is massively depressing.

what is...aleppo?

everybody calm down, no major voting blocs are moving, Trump has just managed to avoid total faceplants for a couple weeks.

Oh, I don't think Clinton will lose. I just still find the poll numbers for Johnson depressing.

if Hillary is forced to step aside, I wouldn't mind Tim Kaine as POTUS. i think he would have a much better chance against Trump even this late in the game: no baggage, he comes off well in interviews, slightly more conservative than Hillary...

According to Heavy.com, there’s still a chance for Bernie Sanders to become nominee if Clinton drops out

saw this making the rounds

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-blackface-photo/

― Οὖτις, Monday, September 12, 2016 6:18 PM (forty-one minutes ago)

cracking up at that snopes article's painstaking, methodical comparisons of the blackface pic with old photos of Bill and Hillary to establish that no, those two completely dissimilar looking ppl are not in fact the Clintons

it's kind of weird how that guy does look like a young version of 2016 Bill Clinton, but doesn't actually look like Bill Clinton did when he was young.

Kaine wouldn't be the nominee should HRC drop out; he would, though, remain vice presidential nominee no matter whom the DNC would select.

hate this election so much tbh

And Clinton ain't dropping out

are there identifiable masterminds? i want to read a like 8000 word NYRB piece about the consistent names behind the ginned up conspiracies, how the PACs connect, whodunit basically. it's too consistent to be random

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/06/02/the-dirty-trickster

lol at the dropping out talk - these conspiro agitators are pretty effective huh

xpost YES thank you

if anything, i'd rather see her chill out for a week and bounce back and say "yeah i get sick, i'm human."

guys, it was one sodding columnist i've never heard of

Several of Trump's advisers must be taking turns sitting on his head, keeping him from tweeting.

Sounds like something Ailes could have suggested.

hate this election so much tbh

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, September 12, 2016 2:20 PM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yea it is awful

the trump/pence campaign makes me long for the measured civility and intelligence of the mccain/palin campaign.

it does absolutely leave one afeared for 2020

The Washington Post has just discovered that the Trump Foundation hid the illegal contribution to Pam Bondi as a fake gift to a different charity. How the hell can news talk about anything but this?

i'm not looking forward to an HRC presidency and i hope to god she gets elected

xpost Because Shrillary is in the midst of setting up hundreds of illegal servers in Bingazoo while she's dying of advanced leprosy, is why.

It has been known for about two weeks iirc - the new news is that they have found four other donations to charities who say they never received the money.

@tinyrevolution
I assumed the GOP would impeach Clinton the second she took office, but National Review says that's waiting too long

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439715/impeach-hillary-clinton-congress-has-power-do-it

yeah it's amazing, if the Clinton Foundation had 5% of the shadiness going on that the Trump foundation does, that would be the end of her campaign. Trump is literally using his charity money to buy Tim Tebow footballs and giant portraits of himself and nobody seems to care.

Every Democrat who has run for President since Clinton has received this sort of conspiracy treatment.

Right, but Hillary Clinton has been Hillary Clinton all that time - she's been the target of a lot of attempts to damage Bill Clinton (who is probably not the default "Clinton running for president" at this stage?) and there's been a long campaign to paint her as someone the facts about whom are unreliable - she can make inconveniences disappear, either through poli-tical powersss, or just getting some guys to kill you and frame it as a suicide. So if the facts are unreliable you may as well dig in the dark places of your soul to determine what you believe about her, right?

There's also an aspect where she's been fairly clear from very early on that she had no fucking time at all for the wifey aspects of being the First Lady.

Again, news that Trump's "charitable foundation" is a corrupt sham is totally "dog bites man" territory. Jay Rosen's "cult of savviness" idea is useful to understanding why only one guy at the WaPo cares about the Trump Is A Corrupt Scuzbag storyline (and also understanding perhaps why the NYT's Public Editor thought it was even remotely appropriate to suggest that because WaPo is writing about Trump, that means if the NYT were to stop talking about Clinton's shadowy clouds, it would be "false balance" - lolwtfnyt)

Whereas I think that the real — and undeclared — ideology of American journalism is savviness, which is what made the press so vulnerable to the likes of Karl Rove.

Savviness! Deep down, that’s what reporters want to believe in and actually do believe in — their own savviness and the savviness of certain others (including master operators like Karl Rove.) In politics, they believe, it’s better to be savvy than it is to be honest or correct on the facts. It’s better to be savvy than it is to be just, good, fair, decent, strictly lawful, civilized, sincere or humane.

Savviness is what journalists admire in others. Savvy is what they themselves dearly wish to be. (And to be unsavvy is far worse than being wrong.) Savviness — that quality of being shrewd, practical, well-informed, perceptive, ironic, “with it,” and unsentimental in all things political — is, in a sense, their professional religion. They make a cult of it.

It Trump even savvy though? You can make the argument that a lot of sharp operators in the upper echelons of American capital are, but the interesting thing about Trump is how inept his cockamamie scams are and how often he's caught. He has hundreds of millions, if not billions, in the bank and still gets caught scamming charities for $20k portraits of himself.

when Hillary gave that long speech directly tying Trump and his associates to white supremacists and lunatic conspiracy theorists and Trump responded with "oh yeah? well I think she's a BIGOT" and the media reported on it as "BOTH CANDIDATES TRADING JABS TODAY!!", that's when I knew the media was actively trying to throw this to Trump

xp Though i guess there's less journalistic capital in pointing out the obvious.

btw now is a good time to point out that 41% of Trump supporters wanted to bomb the fictional country from Aladdin

Right, it's not about Trump's savviness or lack thereof. It's that by treating Trump's incompetent corruption as material worth writing about you are illustrating un-savviness, because come on who cares that's not news.

And of course for the NYT in particular the most savvy position possible in all political reporting is always that the rest of America hates us, we're wrong, and we deserve it. The NYT loves to be told how disconnected they are from real American life and how real Americans think. It's confirmation bias all the way.

NYT secretly wants nothing more than a good hard spanking from Joe the Plumber.

Can't say I empathize about media "unfairness" to Clinton, i.e. the same candidate that they catapulted into the democratic nomination while nearly ignoring her rival. The reality is that the Clinton Foundation deserves more scrutiny than "a charity" because it is not just "a charity," but a charity tied to an ex-President and, for several years, a sitting Secretary of State expected to run for president. So even if the "corruption" at play ultimately turns out to be minor at best, the reason for concern is much greater.

The "corruption" at play has been examined in exhausting detail by the AP and the NYT and it... doesn't exist

His willingness to blatantly and shamelessly lie about basically every single thing that's happened in his life has got to be a big part of it too, I've never seen anything like it. To me the most alarming part of that old John Oliver bit was the clips of Trump claiming that he'd been asked to appear on LWT even though nobody from the show ever contacted him and the show doesn't really feature guests - to me it's clear that Trump has never seen Last Week Tonight nor has any idea who John Oliver is but has no problem immediately pegging him as another sad person who just wants a piece of Trump. I talk to people about this and they usually say, "so what, all politicians lie" and it's like, no, this is like if one of 'em told you "the moon is made out of cheese, I know because I've been there". And of course the media is too afraid of getting blacklisted or being accused of bias that they just let it all pass. And we're 2 months away. Fuck this election forever.

The selling of access with the Clintons pretty much hides in plain sight. There is no clear "corruption" in the sense of quid pro quos, there's just a modus operandi.

yeah i can't believe the clintons helped poor people

yeah they sure helped a lot of poor people in Haiti

Can't say I empathize about media "unfairness" to Clinton, i.e. the same candidate that they catapulted into the democratic nomination while nearly ignoring her rival.

Hillary's been in the public sphere for three decades while Bernie was basically an unknown who wasn't even a Democrat until very recently, so I don't know what you expected. Besides they spent half their time talking about her email server and Benghazi so it's not like it was very favorable coverage. The problem here is that Trump is routinely getting away with things that Hillary would be raked over the coals for - this email thing is being treated like an unforgivable sin by a large part of the electorate because the media treats it as such, while repeated corruption and scams by Trump are given barely any coverage at all. It's infuriating.

yeah they sure helped a lot of poor people in Haiti

The U.S. Agency for International Development supported the commission’s efforts, and Hillary Clinton led the U.S. response in Haiti as secretary of state. The Clinton Foundation raised more than $30 million for Haiti relief projects.

But there is no evidence that Hillary Clinton, through the Clinton Foundation, raised “hundreds of millions of dollars” for a hospital that was never built. We consulted groups that have been critical of recovery delays in Haiti, but they could not point to a specific Clinton Foundation-funded hospital project, either.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/13/did-the-clinton-foundation-raise-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-for-a-hospital-in-haiti-that-was-never-built/

yeah i can't believe the clintons helped poor people

lol v clearly their priority in abolishing AFDC

versus Trump, who uses charitable donations to buy portraits of himself

And the big scandal in the AP story was Clinton meeting with the guy who got a Nobel prize for doing micro loans to poor people.

thread restart was an attempt to stop it and kudos for the intention but we are slowly becoming the election

and the election is contentious

The real election would have 40% of thread participants huffing paint thinner

I'm doing my part, but few have the courage to join me

@joanwalsh
Why doesn't media dog Trump Foundation like they dog Clinton Foundation?

@DougHenwood
Does the Trump foundation raise hundreds of millions from Boeing and Saudi Arabia?

https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Creepy-Condescending-Wonka.jpg

thread restart was an attempt to stop it and kudos for the intention but we are slowly becoming the election

― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Monday, September 12, 2016 10:06 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Slowly" lol. The US politics threads have reflected the election and the dire state of America for over a year now. A heartfelt "Good look USA" doesn't even cut it any more.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Too soon!

xp

fine, spit on Wonka's grave with yr non sequitur, nomar

‏@tinyrevolution
The funniest thing about Trump's endless grifts is that they're so consistently smarmy and smalltime

In a few cases, Trump seemed to solicit donations only to immediately give them away. But his foundation has also received a handful of bigger donations — including $5 million from professional-wrestling executives Vince and Linda McMahon — that Trump handed out a little at a time.....

But in many other cases, his biggest donors have not wanted to say why they gave their own money, when Trump was giving none of his.

“I don’t have time for this. Thank you,” said Richard Ebers, a ticket broker in New York City who has given the Trump Foundation $1.9 million since 2011.

“No. No. No. I’m not going to comment on anything. I’m not answering any of your questions,” said John Stark, the chief executive of a carpet company that has donated $64,000 over the years.

Vince and Linda McMahon declined to comment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-donald-trump-retooled-his-charity-to-spend-other-peoples-money/2016/09/10/da8cce64-75df-11e6-8149-b8d05321db62_story.html?

Yeah, because clearly Trump has never raised money from suspicious people. I bet Doug Henwood is all up in arms about the ties to Russian investments, right?

Is it too soon to point out that two separate ILXors are both running around with "cumstaun" as their display name

There's literally no area where Trump isn't massively worse than Clinton. None. You think she's too secretive? He won't even release tax records. You think she endangered national security? He called on Russia to hack her email. And so on and so on and so on. Not that Clinton is any good. But come on!

The inside story of Clinton's sick day

headline at politico right now

did she go to Wrigly Field and jump on a float during the Von Steuben Day parade?

Yeah, because clearly Trump has never raised money from suspicious people. I bet Doug Henwood is all up in arms about the ties to Russian investments, right?

― Frederik B, Monday, September 12, 2016 3:20 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do liberals like you every jack off to anything besides "hypocrisy"? There's better porn out there.

The fact that Trump is worse than Clinton is mind-numbingly obvious. Do you have any politics beyond "Trump is worse than Clinton"?

does anyone have any trump porn

in F's defense, it's the only politics Clinton has.

TBF this is the election thread, I'm just starting to lose my shit after more than a year of the trump-is-hitler/everything-bad-about-Clinton-is-false dichotomy. I get that people sincerely don't want Trump to win, and I don't either, but Hillary is almost certainly going to win, so stop hyperventilating. And when she does there will be some new excuse about why now's not the time for criticism. It was already "not the time" when she didn't even have the nomination locked up, because it was too risky to even give another candidate a run at the virtually unelectable Trump.

"She was unwell omg!"
"They say it's pneumonia but obv that can't be right"
"Hey Hillary how are you today?"
"I'm great!"
"Hmm... Great eh? A person recovering from pneumonia wouldn't be feeling GREAT the day after. Lies! What is she hiding?"
"She must be deathly sick"
"Oh I'm sure."
"No she's not deathly sick you fools, she's fit to run for PERSIDETN! Fittest and more open about her medical recs EVER,"

How do you all not get tired from this? I can see the shit show US media making this the most important thing happening on earth right now, but ilx? It's not like she fucked a dead pig now is it?

lobster, pig what's the difference

Fair.

I have no idea what fucking a Bill Clinton is like

Can I be the first to say that man alive is a sexist pos?

;)

First of, 90% of the shit that is dumped on Hillary is untrue - though she's still bad. Secondly, Trump really is Hitler. As in literally. They are the same person.

in F's defense, it's the only politics Clinton has.

she seems to give policy speeches a lot that routinely get ignored. talking about Trump is the only way she can get any visibility. sorry just the way it works

"Secondly, Trump really is Hitler. As in literally. They are the same person."

I guess they really DID save Hitler's brain

Ok guys its ten pm here imma say we can get this one locked by midnight

Can I be the first to say that man alive is a sexist pos?

;)

― schwantz, Monday, September 12, 2016 3:56 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You can say whatever you want, but I literally have no idea which of my post(s) this would have been in response to?

think schwantz was making a sarcastic frederik reference there

Trump really is Hitler. As in literally. They are the same person.

― Frederik B, Monday, September 12, 2016 10:56 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

QED. This is the level of "debate"? As in literally?

Manalivesplainig

man alive, I was responding to a tweet Morbs posted that seemed to say the Clinton foundation was worse than the Trump foundation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orar-V3y5Sk

Sorry man alive - I was referencing what happened in the last thread before we locked it and moved on... Bad joke. I totally agree with you.

"Clinton is down with millennial, the group also fueling Bernie Sanders. But the votes hasn't gone to Jill Stein, as the HuffPo says, but twice as many has gone to Gary Johnson."

Millennials don't know what Aleppo is either

Oh man, punked. I just spent la few minutes sincerely wondering whether I had said something horrible in the midst of my rage spiral.

Ok guys its ten pm here imma say we can get this one locked by midnight

― poor fiddy-less albion (darraghmac), Monday, September 12, 2016 5:01 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

^^^

"Clinton is down with millennial, the group also fueling Bernie Sanders. But the votes hasn't gone to Jill Stein, as the HuffPo says, but twice as many has gone to Gary Johnson."

Millennials don't know what Aleppo is either

― akm, Monday, September 12, 2016 4:09 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://theintercept.com/2016/09/08/what-aleppo-is-and-is-not/

As remarkable as that moment was, it was quickly followed by reports on Johnson’s cluelessness that included basic errors about who was fighting in the city and why the tragedy there matters to the rest of the world.

Taken together, those error-strewn reports suggest that American journalists and pundits have become so completely focused on the horse-race aspect of electoral politics that they are paying almost no attention to the biggest foreign policy crisis that will face the next president.

The tone was set by Christopher Hill, a former United States ambassador to Iraq who is now the dean of international studies at the University of Denver.

Asked by MSNBC for his response, Hill wrongly identified Aleppo as “the capital of ISIS,” apparently confusing it with Raqqa, another city in northern Syria that is held by Islamic State militants. Hill’s error baffled Jenan Moussa, who has reported on the war in Syria for Dubai’s Al Aan TV.

To make matters worse, Hill went on to complain that while there are a lot of “inside baseball” terms familiar to foreign policy experts like himself that he would not expect many people to know, it was remarkable for Johnson to draw a blank on a city that has been “very much in the news, especially in the last two days, but for the last two years.”

The Washington bureau of the New York Times then added to the confusion by rushing to publish a report on the reaction to Johnson’s ignorance that echoed Hill’s error by calling Aleppo “the de facto capital of the Islamic State.”

When that obvious mistake was spotted by readers — and, no doubt, the newspaper’s own foreign correspondents — the Times report was first edited to insert a new but still incorrect description of Aleppo as “the Syrian city that is a stronghold of the Islamic State.” That description was later removed, and a correction appended, but the article still includes a mistaken summary of Barnicle’s explanation to Johnson of why Aleppo matters.

Barnicle told Johnson that Aleppo is “the epicenter of the refugee crisis,” which is correct, since fighting in what was before the war the most heavily populated region of Syria, and its economic heartland, has driven millions of Syrians to seek refuge in neighboring countries and Europe. Barnicle did not, as the Times reports, ask Johnson “how, as president, he would address the refugee crisis in the war-torn Syrian city.”

Rather than deal with the question of how, exactly, the United States might help to bring this conflict to an end — which it has fueled by supporting rebel groups allied with al Qaeda’s proxy — political reporters covered Johnson’s blank stare as a process story, asking how his gaffe might affect his chances of getting into the upcoming presidential debates.

Here's that original quote from Jay Rosen about savviness:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/60411

And related to something he wrote four years ago that shockingly comes up again and again:

http://pressthink.org/2012/08/everything-thats-wrong-with-political-journalism-in-one-washington-post-item/

One camp, represented for the moment by Aaron Blake of The Fix, has drifted into a state of low grade nihilism in which complaining about truth, accuracy, fairness and missing context is beside the point because those very complaints have become another way of doing politics. Both sides pretend to get all worked up about it. Both sides rely on misleading claims when it’s convenient for them. Observing this, a smart reporter like Blake can’t fall for any of it. He stands between warring camps, reminding each side that they too are sinners. Here, “both sides” is a kind of magic phrase, putting partisans in their place and clearing the ground for the journalist to come in and settle matters.

lol Pence refusing to call David Duke "deplorable"

so brave of him

i wonder if in his wildest dreams Duke ever thought 2016 would be his year to shine

does anyone have any trump porn

I think we've been watching it for months, live.

A person recovering from pneumonia wouldn't be feeling GREAT the day after.

The funny thing is, a person recovering from pneumonia might very well feel great the next day. When I had it they gave me this magic horse pill antibiotic and it worked like gangbusters. Like felt better in a day or two. If you don't start feeling better, then that's when you worry.

Chait wrote a worthwhile thing, laughing at the NYT public editor dismissing "false equivalence"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/times-writes-disastrous-defense-of-false-equivalence.html

odd thing, i can't seem to find a lot of footage from within a trump rally shot from the crowd. do they not allow filming that much? basically everything i find is via a media source of some kind and is generally just a reposted version of the official feed

trump going all in on this "deplorables" stuff. doesn't seem like a winner to me.

Well, it might not win the election, but Trump is a massive racist/sexist himself, so of course he's all in on respect for the deplorables.

xpost
not a winner for the election, but highlighting it does position him to be king of the disaffected afterward. not only did hillary defeat trump, but she also insulted them along the way. tune into trumptv for more

It's really weird that everyone just agrees Hillary was bad for insulting 'millions' of Americans. So there's, like, less than a million racists? That's 0,3% of the population. There's no fucking country with less than 0,3% racists.

xpost to self, i should say CONTINUE to be king of the disaffected after the election. that's already his thing. so might as well play it up before he actually loses

It's really weird that everyone just agrees Hillary was bad for insulting 'millions' of Americans. So there's, like, less than a million racists? That's 0,3% of the population. There's no fucking country with less than 0,3% racists.

― Frederik B, Monday, September 12, 2016 11:52 PM (three minutes ago)

"everyone just agrees" except for all the ppl who pointed out that she was right?

Well, in the media. And it's not to defend Clinton. It's fucked up depressing racism is still tabu, after Trump based his entire campaign on it.

How is Trump racist? I never heard a compelling argument.

("Illegal immigrant" isn't a race, btw)

you're right, we've generalized.

How is Trump racist?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html

NEW YORK — When a black woman asked to rent an apartment in a Brooklyn complex managed by Donald Trump’s real estate company, she said she was told that nothing was available. A short time later, a white woman who made the same request was invited to choose between two available apartments.

The two would-be renters on that July 1972 day were actually undercover “testers” for a ­government-sanctioned investigation to determine whether Trump Management Inc. discriminated against minorities seeking housing at properties across Brooklyn and Queens.

Federal investigators also gathered evidence. Trump employees had secretly marked the applications of minorities with codes, such as “No. 9” and “C” for “colored,” according to government interview accounts filed in federal court. The employees allegedly directed blacks and Puerto Ricans away from buildings with mostly white tenants, and steered them toward properties that had many minorities, the government filings alleged.

In October 1973, the Justice Department filed a civil rights case that accused the Trump firm, whose complexes contained 14,000 apartments, of violating the Fair Housing Act of 1968.

but maybe blacks and puerto ricans are also not races

He also said he didn't want "black guys" counting his money but wanted "Jews in little hats."

The only way to not know all this is to either a) have read nothing since last April or b) be pretending not to for reasons of one's own.

He's been punished for housing discrimination against african-americans, he called mexicans rapists, he said a mexican judge couldn't be impartial, he wants to ban muslims from entering the us, he pushed the birther conspiracy, he attacked a muslim woman for being silenced by her husband, he took out an add portraying native americans as drug addicts, he called for the death penalty for the central park five, doubled down after they were relased, he refused to condemn david duke, he called for the bombing of the innocent families of terror suspects, he said that he hated having black accountants...

he wasn't even a Mexican judge!

No, you're absolutely right! My bad.

But OTOH he likes taco salad, so...

in Trump's America "deplorable" will be a protected class

his highlighting the deplorable stuff gins up the people who go to his rallies, which is about the extent of his strategic horizon, because he lives off endorphins and social shares.

but it's also amplifying a charge about him that is perhaps the single one most likely to give the "moderates"/"independents" who supposedly decide elections the vapors.

love how the media is taking trump's bait and reporting on the pneumonia as if it is somehow revelatory of a "tranparency" problem on the part of clinton. great job.

To be fair I don't think trump has said much about the pneumonia. I attribute that to strategic incompetence rather than decency.

he laid the seeds by stoking all this health conspiracy stuff. if that wasn't in the air this wouldn't be seen as a scandal. it would be seen as a 68 year old with pneumonia having a hard time in the heat one day.

no one seriously cares how frail hillary is physically. she is obviously more than mentally tough enough to be president. this is all concern trolling nonsense.

reporting on the pneumonia as if it is somehow revelatory of a "tranparency" problem on the part of clinton.

uhhh David fucking Axelrod's twitter indicated he thought it was such a problem also

btw it was 80 degrees w/ low humidity here on Sunday morning

today not yesterday bro

it was hot yesterday. it was humid.

she was wearing a bulletproof vest under a navy suit.

also the NY Times has run several in-depth pieces on Trump's sordid history -- i've read a few -- so i don't quite get how they're in the tank for him.

not at 9:30a.m. xxp

if that wasn't in the air this wouldn't be seen as a scandal. it would be seen as a 68 year old with pneumonia having a hard time in the heat one day.

idk, Dole in 96 or McCain in 08 weren't much older than Clinton is now - if one of them had been filmed collapsing and then being bundled into a car, and then their campaign had to announce that they had been diagnosed with pneumonia a couple of days earlier it seems like that would have been a story? if not to the same extent as what we're getting now, maybe.

lol ffs Bush temporarily gave control of the government to Cheney while he got a frigging colonoscopy and nobody cared. Reagan had several surgeries for fairly serious health problems -- not to mention getting shot -- and everyone handwaved it away.

they're obviously not "in the tank" for our friend mr. donald trump but they're covering this as a "scandal" because that is the kind of narrative that draws clicks and comments xp

Clinton didn't think illness was 'going to be that big a deal'
Eric Bradner
By Eric Bradner, CNN
Updated 9:09 PM ET, Mon September 12, 2016

like, wtf is this headline.

do the ppl who think hillary's coughing "raises questions" about her ability to be president think FDR and JFK should've been disqualified from office b/c of their physical issues? or eisenhower, who had a heart attack in his first term?

no. of course not.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/abc_archive_WNBB2554A_wg.jpg

eisenhower, who had a heart attack in his first term?

and a stroke!

he also had surgery for chrons disease.

btw it was 80 degrees w/ low humidity here on Sunday morning

― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius),

I forgot you're a 68-year-old woman in an iron vest with possible pneumonia campaigning for hours and shaking dirty hands.

meanwhile Randy Quaid shows up outside new Trump DC hotel:

https://twitter.com/swin24/status/775502656932614144

@davidaxelrod
When the exact same problems crop up in separate campaigns, with different staff, at what point do the principals say, "Hey, maybe it's US?"

btw for those who think, like K-Ham today, that she should've informed the world about her illness on Friday, how would the news have changed? The news over the weekend -- all weekend -- would have been, "What other illnesses is HRC hiding? She should release her medical records!"

i forgot you're a boyband manager in an iron lung.

xxp

It's not the pneumonia, it's the coverup.

it's the Questions Raised.

If that racist Trump is elected, I swear I'll move to another white majority country like Canada or Sweden.

oof. the withering sarcasm cuts deep. good post.

Haha who is this guy

There are plenty of white people Trump and his supporters want to beat up/murder. Being white doesn't really exempt you from it.

some guy on the internet said he'd move to canada if trump was elected i guess trump isn't really racist

hillary covered up having pneumonia bc she's a sneaky terrible person and the moment she got the diagnosis she should've held a press conference bc we expect our politicians update us immediately on every medical development in their lives

i'm so glad ilx's collection of dumbasses is growing it really makes me feel like i'm experiencing all the wonders the american zeitgeist has to offer

I've had people say it's a quickening, actually

I just want to say fuck the media for empowering and normalizing this guy and his follower's hate-driven ideology. It may seem "lol", but it's not, people really are acting out on this stuff. God damn. I'm in Trump country now, suburban NJ only 5 miles outside of NYC, and it's the only place I've ever lived where I'v felt unsafe, and that includes Bed Stuy, Flatbush, Washington Heights, etc, where I was a minority. Being white majority really doesn't make you safe with these types. And I just look like a guy whose lived in NYC for the past decade. I'm getting the fuck out of here ASAP, and I'll do whatever it takes to help quash this shit.

suburban new jersey is not trump country

there is one guy in princeton who sits outside starbucks everyday with a trump sign and everyone makes fun of him

yeah it's strange they called the deplorable comment a 'gaffe' because it was most definitely done on purpose for some very deliberate reasons:

1) it causes the media reporting on it to investigate "are they racists/homophobes/Islamophobes?" for which there is a ton of evidence
2) it makes the most vocal and horrible half of Trump's fans speak out and act offended, thereby making them more visible to the other half of Trump voters
3) it causes that half to try to "own" the nickname which is terrible optics, plus it creates confirmation bias whenever Trump supporters do something horrible
4) it gives the media an easy way to corner the campaign, as they did today with Pence. Pence either has to refuse to disavow the KKK, or admit that Hillary was kinda right

if I were opposite-day Scott Adams I'd be jizzing myself right now

hillary's campaign should shine a light on r/thedonald

eisenhower smoked 4 packs a day!

r/thedonald makes me weep for humanity

Speaking of alt-right theories I'd prefer not to believe:
Facebook's current trending topics are Neil Peart, Vanilla Ice, Dancing with the Stars, and not...

or stuff like this

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/775467362195738624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

suburban new jersey is not trump country

― Treeship, Monday, September 12, 2016 9:50 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah what the fuck, I'm trying to think of any NJ town near NYC that would be "Trump Country."

maybe certain parts of South or Western Jersey? Certainly nothing close to the city.

vernon maybe

morristown area was pretty conservative too when i lived there tho that's starting to get further from the city

Where I'm now is a staunchly working class, blue collar town in Southern Bergen County. I see Trump decals, signs, and mailings pretty regularly. It was sold to me as a nice middle class area, and it does look nice, but it's really not what I expected. More my bad, but still. I'm getting back to NYC ASAP.

Morristown is more like Jeb Bush or Rubio country I think?

bergen county did go obama in 2012 - and looks like the south was more blue than the north. i assume this probably heavily depends on precisely what neighborhood you're in.

xp yes totally

i've started seeing lots more hillary signs in my supposedly contentious philly suburbs neighborhood + still no trump stuff. i guess wealthy educated ppl probably not going trump in big numbers.

I taught a class in Manville once, that was kinda white working class and I guess I could see that being Trump territory.

I'm guessing you might be talking about Carlstadt, a town I really don't know but which is apparently almost entirely white and doesn't have a super high median income.

xp isn't lack of a college degree a much bigger predictor of Trump support than income among whites? Thought I remembered hearing that stat.

I used to go to Morristown for work and it seemed kind of like the idyllic moderate Republican suburb, cafes full of attractive and fit stay-home moms and their strollers, well-kept victorian homes, etc., like if you took an idyllic liberal suburb and just turned the dial one notch right of center. I remember there being an actual omaha steaks brick-and-mortar, which I thought was funny.

The area I'm in had KKK activity up until the 90s, so maybe they did vote for Obama. Recently I saw a truck driving by with neo Nazi decals on it. It's nothing like towns like Morristown, Mendham, or Chester, which I'm a lot more familiar with. I'm just saying, the last thing I want is these guys having more power.

Dude at my work had this one up in his cube!
http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.199828977.1928/flat,1000x1000,075,f.u4.jpg

On one level that's hilarious, but on another level it is deeply unsettling.

the widest gyre, just tremendous

it recalls to mind: trumpflinchingawayfromrealbaldeagle.gif

apologies for yesterday's eruption in the other thread. not an excuse, but I was drunk at the time and going through an emotional breakdown simultaneously and for some reason thought the internet was a good place to have it.

anyways...this Trump Foundation shit better get legs.

You don't know how weird shxx really is until you live in rural KY. I over hear some serious crazy accepted as just the way it is.

r/thedonald isn't the subreddit though - r/the_donald is what you want. Well, "want".

whatever it's called, it's a place that so-called "moderate" republican voters should visit in order to learn what kind of movement they will be endorsing if they vote trump in november.

Man, while listing all the racism I completely forgot all the white supremacist memes Trump has been retweeting.

suburban new jersey is not trump country

― Treeship, Monday, September 12, 2016 9:50 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah what the fuck, I'm trying to think of any NJ town near NYC that would be "Trump Country."

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 13 September 2016 02:55 (eight hours ago) Permalink

I grew up in West Milford... about 45 minutes away from the city in North Jersey and it is 80 square miles of rural suburbia. There are plenty of confederate flags on pick up trucks out there. You really don't have to travel too far to find Trump demos. Even in Boonton where I work right now you see them.

there are definitely some little pockets around here and there. like the time i was out in the field for work around Ramsey,nj and saw an older man jogging while carrying a yuge Trump flag through the middle of a neighborhood.

love how the media is taking trump's bait and reporting on the pneumonia as if it is somehow revelatory of a "tranparency" problem on the part of clinton. great job.

if yr a radiologist then pneumonia really IS a transparency problem

After years of successfully holding off Democratic gains in this rapidly changing state, Republicans are scrambling to pour new resources into North Carolina in the face of unexpectedly close contests in the presidential and Senate races.

Republicans here are increasingly nervous about the prospects in November for both presidential nominee Donald Trump, who held a rally in Asheville on Monday evening, and Sen. Richard Burr, who is in a tight race with a relatively unknown Democratic opponent. The state’s Republican governor, Pat McCrory, also is in danger of losing his reelection bid.

It’s a dramatic change in fortune for a party that had reasserted control of North Carolina after President Obama narrowly won the state in 2008. Republicans enacted a wave of conservative policies, including imposing new voting restrictions and overruling protections for gay and transgender people. The rightward shift was particularly notable in a state that is gaining Hispanics and young white professionals at a rapid pace, following in the wake of its neighbor to the north, Virginia.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/worried-republicans-are-pouring-resources-into-north-carolina/2016/09/12/124c69d6-76da-11e6-b786-19d0cb1ed06c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_northcarolina-730p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

The current shitness of the media might be the only thing Trump and I agree on.

lol gbx

Yeah what the fuck, I'm trying to think of any NJ town near NYC that would be "Trump Country."

That would be Staten Island.

Oh for sure. Parts of southern Brooklyn too if we're talking about the boroughs. Middle class white areas where cops and firefighters live. AM radio listening conservatives who are not evangelical and hate "elites" and mistrust minorities and don't give a flying fuck about "conservative principles" as espoused by the national review but want lower taxes.

yeah, and don't forget about Long Island either

Yeah, also parts of Eastern Queens not too far from me that kind of bleed into Long Island. He also has some support among the Russians in my neighborhood.

whatever it's called, it's a place that so-called "moderate" republican voters should visit in order to learn what kind of movement they will be endorsing if they vote trump in november.

r/EnoughTrumpSpam is as good as the_donald is bad

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p160x160/14344197_10157339365660304_2719185726199452916_n.jpg?oh=64e4e539b7833ce41d54e684d88d269e&oe=5876D6BE

the Wit and Wisdom of Bill Kristol

On the other hand Kristol's a dumbshit motherfucker

Facetiousness aside, Clinton is much closer to the neocon foreign policy agenda than Trump.

TBH I'm not sure there is much separation between her foreign policy agenda and the neocon foreign policy agenda.

Before Frederik B tarzans into the thread again, I'm not saying that makes Trump "better" than her.

what is Trump's foreign policy agenda? nukes? take the oil? bullets dipped in pig's blood? kill the family of enemy combatants?

TBH I'm not sure there is much separation between her foreign policy agenda and the neocon foreign policy agenda.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive),

Let's say that the neocon agenda is closer to hers than Trump's.

since MSM is treating Trump like a normal person and nothing means anything anymore Clinton should just start going ham. WGAF. neither candidate is going to budge any voters at this point.

unless the MSM can scare some wavering idiot into thinking HRC is just so very frail

Though if some very smart, beautiful people start talking about the wisdom of neocon foreign policy that might not be the case anymore.

A president Trump would probably have the foreign policy agenda of whoever butters his ego the best.

we had this discussion on the what is fascism and is trump one thread, I think

Thread of What Is Fascism And Is Donald Trump A Fascist

-ish

I think the "whomever butters his ego the best" is astute, sadly. And it also means he'll walk right into rope-a-dope maneuvers by any regime with a nickel's worth of statecraft knowhow

eisenhower smoked 4 packs a day!

Also said to have slept with his secretary, nbd

roosevelt was banging his secretary the whole time too. he left her in his fucking will.

the "banging" was the wheelchair against the wall iirc

A president Trump would probably have the foreign policy agenda of whoever butters his ego the best.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, September 13, 2016 9:54 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Best but also last and also loudest. Someone may stroke his ego just right and get him to sway in a particular direction but then someone else may do the same later and get him to sway in a whole new direction but then he may walk in front of a crowd baying for blood and get a rush from agreeing that bloodletting is a good idea.

Ok can someone please explain: did Pepe actually become "almost exclusively" a symbol of the alt-right some time in the last year without me noticing or is this just the Clinton campaign not really getting how the internet works?

the latter is true generally but it's the former mostly

That's fucking weird. I thought it was just a general symbol of internet loserdom.

That is not a contradiction

incel uprising innit

it makes sense to me that internet losers and white supremacists have some overlap and might use the same memes. It doesn't make sense to me that white supremacists somehow "co-opted" pepe into an exclusively white supremacist symbol, which is what the Clinton campaign claims.

4chan types just happen to be both loser nerds and white supremacists at the same time

I'm just finding it hard to see any angle from which the Clinton campaign going after pepe the frog does anything other than make them look really silly.

Like this whole "trust us, it may seem like a cartoon but it's actually really disturbing that Donald Trump retweeted an image of pepe the frog" even if that was true it's never going to sound anything but laughable or at best baffling to most people.

most people have never heard of pepe the frog, and trump has spent a year retweeting weird alt-right stuff, so it's possible a lot of people won't look into it much more than that. it's also not likely to make the slightest difference in the outcome of the election.

if anything the fact that fucking milo is on it is more significant and he's an actual awful human being

I keep picturing some retired couple at the kitchen table being like "What, he 're-tweeted' an image of 'Pepe Frog'?! Huh?!"

"Well my question is, how can a bird explain what a pet frog even looks like, much less twice?"

james fallows wrote a pretty good (and long) preview of what to expect in the debates http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/10/who-will-win/497561/

breaking: Dat Boi just endorsed Hillary

oh shit

http://i.imgur.com/sYKkgOz.png

what the fuck does the obama administration think it's doing? don't they know this is extraordinarily inconvenient for a lot of ppl's political beliefs??

sorry big

image posted bigly

only 58% approval rating too . what a loser. sad!

50% iirc

up to 58 percent in the poll I saw yesterday: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/12/barack-obamas-soaring-approval-numbers-are-very-good-news-for-hillary-clinton/

oh, i was going by gallup:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/124922/presidential-job-approval-center.aspx

but yeah, even by gallup (where he topped out at 53% in late July and is now back to hovering around 50%) he's doing better than he has since late 2012/early 2013

+bennies he also helped with bennies

that ppl continue to vote republican despite the economy consistently doing better under democratic presidents is evidence that humans don't even really have functioning pavlovian instincts

(or that economic health is too abstractly related to political power for ppl to learn)

james fallows wrote a pretty good (and long) preview of what to expect in the debates http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/10/who-will-win/497561/

― marcos, Tuesday, September 13, 2016 1:19 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is really good and taps into the reason why the GOP is so broken right now - they worried so much about alienating the Trump base that they accidentally let him win the whole thing.

one of the great mysteries of this election to me is that hrc is distrusted, disliked, dishonored by so many, while obama remains broadly popular, when clinton is, as far as I can see, about as close to a "third term of the incumbent" candidate as we've had in my life. who are the people who would happily vote for obama again but won't pull the lever for clinton?

ultimately i don't think there there are a ton of those people

oh I've got progressive friends who hate him too, don't worry

people loved reagan but bush sr not so much

can't think of a single person who loved Poppy Bush except maybe Barbara.

"that ppl continue to vote republican despite the economy consistently doing better under democratic presidents is evidence that humans don't even really have functioning pavlovian instincts"

I know, but I think there is some truth to the concept that the economy is only doing better for certain demographics, namely, educated, upper middle class people. Those aren't the ones who vote republican. YOu have vast swaths of people in the country for whom the economy is not doing better, beause they worked in jobs that didn't require so much education in the past; they worked for the coal industry; they worked for other things that are becoming obsolete. Those make up a big republican constituency and they think the economy is a mess.

(not that their solutions for that are any good or make any sense)

clinton is, as far as I can see, about as close to a "third term of the incumbent" candidate as we've had in my life

And it is simultaneously a time in which most people say they think the country is on the wrong track and want change. So like maybe there is a clump of people who think Obama has done an okay job, while simultaneously feeling either (A) an inchoate distaste for "business as usual" or (B) an active desire for something different, even if it is a roll of the dice.

For example I like my wife fine. Her approval ratings hover in the mid-60s. But sheesh it's been like 10 years and I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.

nice

Mordy:

- median income still lower than 2007
- highest gains went to highest earners
- "Across the entire bottom 60 percent of the distribution, households are taking home a smaller slice of the pie than they did in the 1960s and 1970s."

these aren't 'beliefs' - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/business/economy/americas-inequality-problem-real-income-gains-are-brief-and-hard-to-find.html

For example I like my wife fine. Her approval ratings hover in the mid-60s. But sheesh it's been like 10 years and I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.

I suspect yr approval ratings just tanked fwiw

one of the great mysteries of this election to me is that hrc is distrusted, disliked, dishonored by so many, while obama remains broadly popular, when clinton is, as far as I can see, about as close to a "third term of the incumbent" candidate as we've had in my life. who are the people who would happily vote for obama again but won't pull the lever for clinton?

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, September 13, 2016 7:00 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

misogyny

For example I like my wife fine. Her approval ratings hover in the mid-60s. But sheesh it's been like 10 years and I wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.

― there is water at the bottom of the ocean (Ye Mad Puffin),

try an intern

Mitt has some binders that might come in handy iirc

one of the great mysteries of this election to me is that hrc is distrusted, disliked, dishonored by so many, while obama remains broadly popular, when clinton is, as far as I can see, about as close to a "third term of the incumbent" candidate as we've had in my life. who are the people who would happily vote for obama again but won't pull the lever for clinton?

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, September 13, 2016 7:00 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

misogyny

― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, September 13, 2016 2:20 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It might have something to do with how hard she worked to distinguish herself from Obama and place herself to the right of him during an election many of us still remember? Or perhaps her record of being more hawkish than Obama as secretary of state?

Or it's misogyny

Michelle Obama wasn't president for 8 years in the 90s

hawkishness ('interventionism' for the sake of accuracy) that ppl really don't seem to care at all about in men they find despicable in hillary which is maybe not entirely disconnected from her gender

i think if bill were running right now instead of hillary he'd be doing very well xp

a country that got its start by rejecting monarchy still feels weird about letting one family control the world for decades at a time, mystery solved

lol get one American history book

like i said, i think bill would not be facing these problems such as they are. and i think he's a much more flawed candidate than hillary not least bc he'd be running against his own record. xp

family dynasties have ruled this country repeatedly since its inception

xp

hawkishness ('interventionism' for the sake of accuracy) that ppl really don't seem to care at all about in men they find despicable in hillary which is maybe not entirely disconnected from her gender

― Mordy, Tuesday, September 13, 2016 2:41 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is kind of an obtuse comment to make in reference to a comment about the *male* president whose administration she was in being *less* hawkish.

a country that got its start by rejecting monarchy still feels weird about letting one family control the world for decades at a time, mystery solved

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, September 13, 2016 2:42 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

john quincy adams was the sixth president

not really - there are other men to compare her against besides obama who seem to have suffered not at all for their hawkishness. like biden, or kaine, both of whom it's not hard to imagine doing better than hillary against trump despite being more right-wing than hillary. you need to believe it's about the right-wingedness bc you want to believe that this country really wants a left-winger and not just dislikes women. xp

No, I was giving an example of one of the myriad ways in which Hillary is not really going to be a "third-term Obama."

like if anything she probably calculated correctly that without seeming gung ho on foreign affairs she couldn't even get her foot in the door. if you asked me if americans prefer more bombing other countries or not bombing other countries i'd bet that a majority would prefer to bomb other countries.

Justice for Agrabah

That seems to be the convenient excuse for absolutely any policy Hillary has that people disagree with "Well she's a woman so she has to be even more ___." The secret leftist who has to pretend to be a foreign policy neocon in order to not get woman-bashed.

well u kno convenience is v important

everything about HRC's entire life says she's a late cold war consensus neoliberal in all the good and bad that inheres to that.

perhaps the sexism is there in how she's treated as some kind of mystery. a lot of people would love to be the one to explain it all to you.

my former congressman, ladies and gents:

Joe Garcia, the former Miami Democratic congressman running for his old seat, told supporters in a candid moment over the weekend that Hillary Clinton “is under no illusions that you want to have sex with her, or that she’s going to seduce you.”

Unknown to Garcia, one of his “supporters” was really a tracker — a political campaign spy — secretly recording him as he spoke informally at a Key West Democratic campaign office opening Saturday. Yes, there’s video.

Late Tuesday, after the Miami Herald obtained the video and he initially tried to explain himself, Garcia apologized for his remarks.

The video — recorded upside down as if a cellphone was in the tracker’s hand — showed Garcia standing in an office hallway with a few other men, apparently before Garcia was scheduled to address the full crowd. Clinton signs decorate some of the walls.

“I believe that we’re going to have — I’ll mention it when I speak — I believe we’re about to see the most consequential presidency that we’ve seen since Lyndon Johnson,” Garcia said on the recording. “This is not because I think Hillary Clinton is the greatest ever. But I do believe she is extremely, exceedingly competent, and she — I know this is going to sound weird to you, but to me, as somebody who studies history, she’s going to be very similar to Lyndon Johnson.

“Lyndon Johnson wasn’t a particularly charming man, wasn’t a particularly nice man: He would ask you nice, and then when you didn’t do it, he made you do it,” Garcia continued. “And Hillary is under no illusions that you want to have sex with her, or that she’s going to seduce you, or out-think you.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article101588597.html#storylink=cpy

Hillary is under no illusions that you want to have sex with her

too late for new thread title?

definitely not. this thread is a mess already. start fresh.

don't confuse Mordy w/ facts, Tracer

lol u dumbass u didn't even read tracer's link which opens with

Working families finally got a raise.

Early on Tuesday, the Census Bureau provided some long-awaited good news for the beleaguered working class: The income of the typical American household perched on the middle rung of the income ladder increased a hearty 5.2 percent in 2015, the first real increase since 2007, the year before the economy sank into recession.

Households all the way down the income scale made more money last year. The average incomes of the poorest fifth of the population increased 6.6 percent after three consecutive years of decline. And the official poverty rate declined to 13.5 percent from 14.8 percent in 2014, the sharpest decline since the late 1960s.

before putting the brakes on unbridled celebration. but this is clearly good news.

“But I do believe she is extremely, exceedingly competent, and she — I know this is going to sound weird to you, but to me, as somebody who studies history, she’s going to be very similar to Lyndon Johnson."

wonder if we'll be getting medicare LBJ or gulf of tonkin LBJ

after Sunday it looks like we're getting "gall bladder scar" LBJ

Get you a president can do both?

odds are good i am going to be an unemployed, unhireable charity case in a year or less, Mordy, so you can resume yr unbridled haves > have-nots party

hawkishness ('interventionism' for the sake of accuracy)

and plz get droned

lol don't let any info penetrate that bubble Morbz

mordy got dronezoned

you can stfu Shakey; I absorb info faster than cancer drugs. I also p much don't give a shit about jobs except mine, as most of them will be obsolete in a decade or two, and then what a marvelous civil war might coincide with the Extinction Event.

Just gonna go put on my happy music now

and by happy music I mean this tweet

https://twitter.com/DanQuayle2016/status/637449562479853568

like if anything she probably calculated correctly that without seeming gung ho on foreign affairs she couldn't even get her foot in the door. if you asked me if americans prefer more bombing other countries or not bombing other countries i'd bet that a majority would prefer to bomb other countries.

Bombing other countries may appeal to the majority's lizard brain (and that's definitely a factor in this election), but I think a majority has become much more wary of intervening in other countries without an understandable resolution in sight, and without certainty of the consequences. I don't think Clinton's tipping vote on Libya was based on appealing to sexists, afaik people weren't even aware of her significance in the final decision until Libya was in chaos. I don't see her as a bloodthirsty warmonger, her reasoning of her more hawkish actions is generally understandable and defensible, but she consistently underestimates the chances of things going to shit.

i was about to ask why Hillary's campaign isn't sending out Biden to talk mad shit on Trump while she's sick, but then I checked and he just challenged Trump to go jogging with him. Amp it up a little, Joe.

lol that is so joe

uhhhh

http://i.imgur.com/RPqdG0Z.jpg

that third tweet has been deleted? to "avoid confusion." don't leave us thirsty kurt

@JimPethokoukis
"This is the first statistically significant annual increase [in real median household income] since 2007" - IHS Global

and man, that one sure led to memorable things

cool, can't wait to introduce stigmas about mental illness to this awesome campaign

we really need to cover the waterfront on stigmatizing illness in general

Andrew Rafferty
‏@AndrewNBCNews
.@davidplouffe just told @chucktodd Trump is the heaviest presidential candidate since William Taft

oh cool

Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin said conservatives may need to turn to physical violence in order to protect the United States against contemporary liberalism.

The Republican governor put forth the controversial suggestion after speaking of the “degradation of society” during an impassioned, 15-minute speech at the Values Voter Summit in Washington, D.C., on Saturday. The provocative comments started to gain national attention at the start of this week.

“America is worth fighting for ideologically. I want us to be able to fight ideologically, mentally, spiritually, economically, so that we don’t have to do it physically. But that may, in fact, be the case,” he told the crowd.

Bevin suggested that if Democrat Hillary Clinton were elected president, she would set the nation on a dangerous course that might require bloodshed to correct. He told the audience that the “candle” of liberty might go out “on our watch.”

To hammer home his point, he paraphrased a famous quote from Founding Father Thomas Jefferson: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

“Whose blood will be shed? It may be that of those in this room. It might be that of our children and grandchildren. I have nine children,” he said. “It breaks my heart to think that it might be their blood that is needed to redeem something, to reclaim something that we, through our apathy and our indifference, have given away. Don’t let it happen.”

XP Only grilled KFC from here on out.

who talks about their fucking kids like this

"hey, junior might need to water the tree of liberty with your blood, can you spare a few pints"

fucking psychos

i think a lot of this bullshit is related to (stupid) people's childish need for excitement all the god damn fucking time. why are these conservatives so averse to being good stewards of the earth and society? even when one gets into a real position of power -- fucking governor -- he fantasizes about being mel gibson in the patriot instead.

He's got nine kids! Who'll miss one or three if it keeps that liberty tree goin'?

think that was a Pat Buchanan go-to quote

just found some important information about watering trees with blood:

http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/2102366.html

i think a lot of this bullshit is related to (stupid) people's childish need for excitement all the god damn fucking time. why are these conservatives so averse to being good stewards of the earth and society? even when one gets into a real position of power -- fucking governor -- he fantasizes about being mel gibson in the patriot instead.

^god, this. is it possible that at least some of these guys ever get embarrassed by this shit? or is business just too good?

i'm sure he's just saying what he actually believes

i'm sure he's just saying what he actually believes

I agree. He's sincere about his anguish over the civil war he imagines is coming. What bears examining is what his beliefs are based on.

It is no accident that Armageddon is envisioned as a literal armed battle. For believers, only massive bloodshed can cleanse away the sins of the world. Very likely he is projecting a similar mindset onto what he thinks of as "God's country" and its sins against God's laws. It is a mistake to discount how powerful an effect this mythology has on millions of Americans. It is totally real to them.

tribalism taken the logical next level - killing each other!

i think a lot of this bullshit is related to (stupid) people's childish need for excitement all the god damn fucking time. why are these conservatives so averse to being good stewards of the earth and society? even when one gets into a real position of power -- fucking governor -- he fantasizes about being mel gibson in the patriot instead.

― Treeship, Tuesday, 13 September 2016 23:08 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There is no doubt that these are the stanzas of a madman the likes of whom it horrifies one to think of as the recipient of high public office, but let's all be clear-eyed and brave in front of any gods or holies we each hold dear and sacred when we declare that the claim that the threat our side is facing today, or this week, year or election cycle is the worst ever faced and will drag all progress with it if given an inch is a claim that the left makes as easily, as untruthfully and as wildly as the right.

yeah no as much as the Left hated Bush or the idea of Palin I honestly don't remember this rhetoric about some sort of civil/ holy war.

Yeah no obv the left will not couch it in the terms of the right so congrats on that

when faced with its latest worst-ever threat, the american left talks about such wild things as moving to canada, not killing the people with which it disagrees

yep exactly the same

Yep. The nascent challop will certainly allow that the left does not react in similar fashion having so declared said threat.

will are u here to defend the castle or what who asked you to defend the castle you don't seem particularly well equipped btw nobody is attacking the castle its just a spectacularly boring hollow echoing thread on us politics i promise u the castle is unthreatened by any post I make here

those namby-pamby liberals trying to escape to Canada will be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution happens.

i didn't say the left wasn't prone to grandiosity and overreaction at times as well

you're just projecting that on my statements in order to make some false equivalency for god knows what reason

(though i've often said if you want to see some gun control in this country real quick like all you need to do is get a bunch of brown and black guys with "Obama 2016 - ∞" t shirts nonchalantly open-carrying in red states/ suburban areas)

and I didn't disagree the right was, nor claim one side was not a damn sight better than the other. but extremism and the kindling for extremism and the baiting and language and thirst and fervour for drama and excitement and insistence that it all gets cured or dies forever on MY WATCH comes from all sides and is probably that much more disappointing and damaging from the side that ought to be the natural enemy of it

that would not result in gun control xp

idk imago, reagan made short work of open carry in california when the panthers marched on sacramento

nah you're right. i just want some t shirt that say "Obama 2016 - ∞"

regardless, it's a bad strategy for achieving gun control.

Cant prove a false equivalency!

God knows what reason = if ilx really has to keep over and die then dear fuckin christ let it now be in the manner of the eight or ten puke election threads so far this year. Oooh dat trump! ooooooooOOOOOOooo DAT TWUMP!

man ppl are bad at this thread

not/now

jclc can we fight pls

I'd ask hoos but he's actually irl

though she denies it to the press, that escalated quickly

I'm going to just keep starting new threads until this stops happening

I'll be there. Waiting.

will are u here to defend the castle or what who asked you to defend the castle you don't seem particularly well equipped btw nobody is attacking the castle its just a spectacularly boring hollow echoing thread on us politics i promise u the castle is unthreatened by any post I make here

no. no i'm not here to defend any castle. nor will i defend the virtue of liberal rhetoric in american politics. but i think it's fair and even worthwhile to point out that democratic pols, for all their faults, haven't (yet!) jumped on this holy/ civil war crazy train.

but i suppose i could do so in a less glib manner. these threads have gotten tense!

I welcome the escalation tho it mirrors something vital from irl

I'd again note, less snippily perhaps, that the lefts dire consequences will naturally not take the same shape as those of the right but do think it's worth considering whether the claimed likely consequences are of a similar magnitude of disaster. Not 'holy war' but idk 'london nightclub closes' or some shit

he tweaks. he tweaks.

http://www.twitter.com/arthousetrump

what left?

Sad! is still considered Funny! ?

Gov. Mike Pence came to Capitol Hill on Tuesday on a mission to promote Republican unity, attacking Hillary Clinton for describing many supporters of the G.O.P. ticket as bigoted “deplorables” and urging Republicans to rally behind their nominee, Donald J. Trump.

But Mr. Pence struggled to press the attack: In separate news conferences, House and Senate Republican leaders declined to join Mr. Pence, the Indiana governor and vice-presidential nominee, in rebuking Mrs. Clinton over her remark.

Mr. Pence wound up raising the subject only when pressed by a reporter — and then gave a halting answer in which he would not call David Duke, a white supremacist and onetime Ku Klux Klan leader, “deplorable.” He insisted instead that Mrs. Clinton did not have “that bad man” in mind when she assailed Mr. Trump’s supporters.

It was a noticeable break in stride for the Trump campaign, which had zeroed in on Mrs. Clinton’s remark at a Manhattan fund-raiser Friday night — one for which she expressed regret the next day — running a new commercial and dispatching surrogates to attack her for what Mr. Trump has termed a “slander” of his “wonderful, amazing” followers.

Congressional Republicans were even blunter in private.

An otherwise friendly morning meeting with House Republicans turned awkward when Mr. Pence was pressed by Representative Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska about Mr. Trump’s difficulties with women, said two House Republicans who relayed the conversation. Mr. Fortenberry told Mr. Pence that his young daughter had come to him and said, “Daddy, Donald Trump hates women,” according to one of the lawmakers, who both insisted on anonymity to recount a private conversation.

“It’s just not true,” Mr. Pence shot back, arguing that Mr. Trump was improving with women, the two House Republicans said.

they ate Chik-Fil-A too

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/republicans-privately-panic-at-terrifying-prospect-of-trump

“I’ve heard a lot of conservatives voicing frustration, like, ‘How fucking hard is this, Hillary?’” said Ben Howe, a conservative ad-maker and an outspoken Trump detractor. “That’s the only reason I’m panicked these days … I’m losing faith in Hillary’s ability to win this easy-ass election.”

At last, a Big Tent!

Is that really a big tent, or you just happy to see it?

*ooooh*

Finally the thread gets around to talk of pitching a big tent

these last two threads have been fucking terrible

@tinyrevolution

The rules of US politics are

1. The GOP could nominate a geoduck and 45%+ of Americans would vote for it
2. Democrats can lose to a geoduck

xp but they're artisanally fucking terrible

I'd vote for a geoduck

I attended The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington and therefore I am a Geoduck, and so is Lynda Barry.

that's my new fav fun fact about Aimless

What does not terrible look like in an election thread?

iatee and legume talkin bout us mail

definitely nonterrible sequence:

pretty sure first thing prez trump will do is shut down ilx

― a (waterface), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:21 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"These people, they're not very nice you know ... They say they Love Everything . They love music, they love football, they love this they love that ..,and you know what? They're confuuused. They don't really know what they love. And they're sick ! Oh I don't even wanna tell you some of the horrible horrible things they say. Don't get me started on Ned Raggett ...what kind of a name is that? But like I said, they're just not very nice people and we're going to close them down and shut them up and we're going to make our country great again"

― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:40 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Wow, you've really perfected his cadence.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:45 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what might Don 'n' Glenn think?

― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:45 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Imus and Beck?

― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:50 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't get me started on Ned Raggett
Aw man.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:53 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

who do these people think they are, trying to tell me what's a classic and what's a dud? Let the American people make up their own minds.

― Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 9:54 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I actually think, I have to make deals with ILX and a lot of these people, they are great people. Terrific people. You know what they say we need to do? You know what they believe in? TAKING SIDES. They take sides. That's what we need to do. That's why we don't win anymore! Everybody says, Donald, you can't say that, you can't take sides, you might offend somebody! Well I'll tell you what, come 2017, that's outta there. We're gonna take the sides, we're gonna take the oil and we're going to win against ISIS, we're gonna win against Radiohead, and we're gonna make America great again.

― shandemonium padawan (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:09 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tick vg!

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:12 AM (six months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Picking only ten! That's for losers."

― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, February 24, 2016 10:18 AM (six months ago)

so apparently kurt eichenwald has been busy

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 33m33 minutes ago
In past years, media consensus would look at recent polls and say "it's a tossup". This year, attitude is still "Clinton's got this".

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 11m11 minutes ago
As others have mentioned, there are echoes of Brexit here. Clinton's narrowing lead over Trump a lot like Remain's over Leave at this point.

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 6m6 minutes ago
That's NOT to predict Trump will finish well (as Leave did). But I see people making excuses to treat a clear possibility as a remote one.

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 4m4 minutes ago
I need to justify my continued existence and hedge against the outside possibility of looking stupid again.

Ed Kilgore is more annoying than Chait. There I said it. I spotted his lazy think piece from the headline alone this morning. He's like TPM's John Judis, but for nymag.

that's an interesting method of psychotherapy

xpost

that comparison is so glib and facile that i'm surprised even nate silver in 2016 would make it

Both things are bad and both things either had or could hypothetically wind up having more voting support than expected, what's facile about it?

Also "WTF happened with Brexit" is a hanging question for polls and those that love them.

Brexit was a straight referendum, decided solely by the ballots cast by voters. This is not that.

"Both things are bad and both things either had or could hypothetically wind up having more voting support than expected"

this is true of every presidential election.

literally the only thing this election and brexit have in common in terms of how the race is polling, the events that have driven it, and what could plausibly happen over the next couple of months, is: there are two sides, and one is currently more likely to win than the other.

of course brexit was box office and the nowcast sells clicks so...

I was being ironical, it is indeed a facile comparison

What do you (as distinct from the punter cloud) think could plausibly happen over the next couple of months, caek?

farage will sail in a boat up the chesapeake bay

when faced with its latest worst-ever threat thread, the american left talks about such wild things as moving to canada, not killing the people with which it disagrees

... FIXED

i would still like the list of Obama '12 states that are voting Trump this year

there'll be a couple, but more?

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 4m4 minutes ago
I need to justify my continued existence and hedge against the outside possibility of looking stupid again.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:58 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

well, yeah...

there'll be a couple, but more?

I see no reason to think there'll be even one. The reason the race is competitive is that a relatively small national move in support towards Trump would move some states into his column, and that might happen -- but it hasn't happened yet. I guess Florida is the most likely. But I think there's at least a 50-50 chance Clinton wins every state Obama won in 2012. (Or more, if things move in the other direction.)

he can justify his continued existence by going back to baseball

xp

Did Obama lose Indiana in 2012? Cause Trump is for sure winning there

Yep.

Obama got crushed by Romney in Indiana, losing by 10 points. Not a ton of polls there but most have Trump doing about as well as Romney.

Trump can have Florida (and Ohio) and still lose. Heck, you can throw in North Carolina and Nevada while we're at it.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#stateorder

This is not to say one should not be worried. Personally I'll pretty much be sticking my fingers in my ears and saying "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" about all election news until November. That said, whenever I do think about this, I'm going to cling to that 538 "winding path" graphic in the hopes that it is at least focusing on the metric that matters.

Is it starting to sink in? Do you still think pneumonia is all she has, no other health problems? Have you seen the polls since she was recorded "fainting"? Why is #DNCleak trending for 2 hours this morning...they usually disappear that shit. Is it because we are in fait accompli territory but you can't see it yet? Or is this just sexism on my part?

Oh my god, fuck off.

Why do niggas push pounds and powder?
Why did Bush knock down the towers?
Why you around them cowards?
Why Aaliyah have to take that flight?
Why my nigga D ain't pull out his Ferrari?
Why he take that bike?
Why they gotta open your package and read your mail?
Why they stop letting niggas get degrees in jail?
Why you gotta do 85% of your time?
And why do niggas lie in 85% of they rhymes?
Why a nigga always want what he can't have?
Why I can't come through in the pecan Jag?
Why did crack have to hit so hard?
Even though it's almost over, why niggas can't get no jobs?
Why they come up with the witness protection?
Why they let the Terminator win the election?
Come on, pay attention!
Why I sell in the stores what you could sell in the streets?
Why I say the hottest shit but be sellin' the least?

hope dmac was able to wake up and get himself to work this morning

Man Trump's speeches have really gotten strange...

xp

lol man alive

Why is the sky blue? Why is water wet? Why did #DNCLeak cover up the emails while Hillary fainted? Or is this just sexism on my part?

Fucking pneumonia, how does it work?

Why are you smirking up your face, making obnoxious facial scenes
Like I supposed to be scared (supposed to be scared) WHY?

Democrats have a secret plan to have Hillary get into the White House and then die.

RIP democrats.

so did Trump cancel his Dr. Oz appearance? what was with Conway suddenly saying the candidates should have "privacy"? (after repeatedly badgering Clinton about her health?) did something happen?

besides their usual disorganized nonsense?

he's taping Oz but will not be releasing his previous health stuff on the show as they'd claimed, but instead will doctor up some bullshit stuff to release later.

Feel like the Oz thing is overshadowing the Newsweek story about how incredibly fucked Trumps financial entanglements are

The eichenwald piece is great but it does go on. I love how every major deal with the Trumps is also tied to corruption and fraud by the foreign developers, though.

i see these dr oz headlines and i've never even heard of dr oz until this week and like what the fuck is happening jfc

this
http://americannewsx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/OZ_ANX.png

I love how every major deal with the Trumps is also tied to corruption and fraud by the foreign developers, though

Of course it is. I mean, if your project was legit, wouldn't you take it to just about anyone on earth other than Donald Trump?

to add to this kafkaesque scenario, here's a creative writing piece the la times published today:

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0914-lopez-trump-longbeach-20160913-snap-story.html

i pinch myself when i've stayed in la too long

wait am i really posting? i don't even know anymore

hello? is there anybody out there?

Dr. Oz is one of the pseudo-quacks who charmed their way into Oprah's coterie. Probably best known as a scaremonger disseminating misleading info re: cyanide levels in apple juice. If you have any stay-at-home parents or grandparents, I guarantee they know who he is.

My mom is 88 and knows a lot about Dr. Oz

I wasn't really impressed with Eichenwald's piece.. I guess I was hoping he had secretive info about Russians financing TrumpCo but its basically a ton of shitty licensing deals with shady developers and alot of hyperventilating about conflicts of interest..

btw the NY Times said on the front page today that DT "stretched the truth" on Clinton not having a childcare plan, which is as close as they ever come to calling any candidate a liar, so you can all decrease yr heart medicine dosage.

they've definitely called Trump a liar fwiw

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/24/opinion/mr-trumps-applause-lies.html?_r=0

i'm talking news stories, not op pieces

Justin Peters mentioned this example: Mr. Trump twice denigrated America’s generals; suggested he would fire the country’s current military leadership; and insinuated—vaguely, unverifiably and without evidence—that the intelligence officials who recently gave him a classified briefing about threats to the United States had said that the president had flouted their advice.”

so trump released medical records.. of his exam last week by that fucking lunatic doctor bornstein

During the hour-long sit-down with Oz airing Thursday, the show said in a press release that Trump discussed his physical performed last week by physician Dr. Harold Bornstein of Lenox Hill Hospital in New York. Bornstein penned Trump's only medical note last December, declaring his test results "astonishingly excellent."

that is a long sentence for such a short reply

adverbs

Bornstein penned Trump's only medical note last December, declaring only that "This guy fucks."

I wonder how many doctors Trump cycled through until he found one that would just write whatever he told him to write. In addition to the whole prescribing him methamphetamines thing, obv.

I would accept that, I think

xp

David Plouffe:

In essence, Plouffe stated flatly that he thinks Clinton is already very close to winning, because (in his view) Virginia, Colorado, and Pennsylvania are already out of reach for Trump. As Plouffe puts it, this would require Trump to pull off a miraculous string of victories in many battlegrounds — including Ohio and Florida, but also in many others — to win. As Plouffe notes, given all of this, Trump would need historically high Republican turnout and historically low Democratic turnout — and to do better than he currently is among moderates — to win. “I don’t see any evidence of that happening,” Plouffe said. “This comes down to, where is Trump going to pick up ground?”

Then Plouffe said:

“The biggest challenge she’s gonna have is turnout. I think they’ll get there. I really do. But if you look at swing voters — there’s a few more than there are normally — Trump’s not offering them much. He’s got to pull a bunch of people who voted for Obama twice. I think there’s going to be very few of those people around the country.”

Asked what Clinton should be doing to energize African Americans and Latinos, Plouffe expanded on the above point this way:

“Polling is very flawed. Obviously the campaign doesn’t have polling. It’s got massive data samples that then you model. When you allocate out 100 percent of the people who are going to vote, what matters is, how’s the whole electorate going to be allocated. Traditionally Democrats break a little bit later. We certainly saw that in our race. So if you allocate the entire African American and Latino and younger vote, as it’s likely to perform, she’s in better shape. She’s got to make a passionate case, and I think she will.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/09/14/is-clinton-in-trouble-the-architect-of-the-obama-coalition-explains-why-its-still-hers-to-lose/?utm_term=.657d60dc7c96

Have there been general turnout/interest polls/estimates? I'd have to think this would be an exceptionally low-turnout election given the level of hate there is for both candidates.

Dem turnout is gonna be p high

Polling is very flawed.

Nice to hear this said by an expert political organizer.

Polling is now a staple of media coverage because it appeals to our curiosity about who's ahead, but it is reported as a set of hard numbers with a margin of error when it ought to be reported as a range. iow, where the media now says "the latest polls show X leads Y with 48% to 45%, with 7% undecided and a margin of error of plus or minus 3%", it would be more accurate to say "the latest polls show support for X falls within the range of 45% to 51%, while support for Y falls in the range of 42% to 48%, with as many as 10% or as few as 4% of voters still undecided". But then people would soon learn to tune it out, so they won't go there.

hillary's analytics/big data team seems really sharp to me.. I think they'll see some results there with GOTV. then again I'm a 30something white guy who likes baseball so Im all about data over 'guts' any day.

it would be more accurate to say "the latest polls show support for X falls within the range of 45% to 51%, while support for Y falls in the range of 42% to 48%, with as many as 10% or as few as 4% of voters still undecided"

the fluctuations between the margin of error is the only thing that makes the horse race narrative work right now

Nate Silver ‏@NateSilver538 4m4 minutes ago
I need to justify my continued existence and hedge against the outside possibility of looking stupid again.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:58 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha it does feel like silver has been doing this constantly

For Obama v. Romney the slick data / microtargeting / organized GOTV stuff was a pretty stark disparity. The result can be read as encouraging, because Obama won comfortably.

On the other hand, you can regard it as discouraging: because Obama's margin of victory was just about precisely in line with the average of public polls, one could reasonably ask whether that stuff made a significant difference.

In any case, rather than concluding they need to bring more ground game or initiate a Nerd Surge, RNC/Trump have apparently concluded that ground game is no longer relevant in the new Age of Orange. Because Twitter; because rallies.

If Clinton's downward slide in national poll averages continues, I don't want to be counting solely on ground game / data to be the decisive factor.

Feel like the Oz thing is overshadowing the Newsweek story about how incredibly fucked Trumps financial entanglements are

The Newsweek story wasn't going to matter anyway, pretty much none of Trump's voters care about this kind of thing

it's amazing, truly nothing matters when it comes to Trump. apparently a few days ago he mentioned he was willing to start a war if someone made a rude gesture towards one of our military ships and the media decided to spend all their time whining that Hillary wasn't completely forthcoming with her health. this country fucking deserves him.

even if the Newsweek story ultimately had no smoking gun we all know that if it was Clinton the media would spent fucking weeks on this

countdown to Trump dissing Powell...

none of Trump's voters care

True. New stories that credibly paint Trump as hip deep in corrupt finances won't change voters who see Trump as 'their guy'. Those stories can affect the undecideds and the highly reluctant moderates whose support is very lukewarm.

even if the Newsweek story ultimately had no smoking gun we all know that if it was Clinton the media would spent fucking weeks on this

― frogbs, Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:01 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And meanwhile in this alternate universe, Trump sees an almost imperceptible dip in his numbers after beheading all of his children onstage and doing a puppet show with their skulls.

I know it's been pointed out in various ways already, but Trump has proven to be a pretty good barometer of a segment of the republican voting population who could give one iota of a fuck about the republican platform. Because they're hateful nihilists who are basically only interested in spectacle and loud noises.

this country fucking deserves him.
yeah i totally give up even stressing about it anymore. Trump is the hero we deserve

'Barometer' is not quite what I mean. 'Radioactive marker' maybe.

Geiger counter.

he did some interview with Pence (CNN?) where he straight up said it was okay for Pence to support the Iraq war since everyone makes mistakes, just that it wasn't okay for Hillary. it's straight up hypocrisy and the media's willingness to let it slide is maddening. practically every time he brings up Clinton he straight up projects his own weaknesses onto her. he's saying "Hillary doesn't have a plan for maternity leave and she never will!" even though her plan has been on her website for months. it's just so strange. I've been convinced for weeks that Hillary would mop the floor with him in a debate, but now I realize, how the hell do you beat this guy?

but Trump has proven to be a pretty good barometer of a segment of the republican voting population who could give one iota of a fuck about the republican platform.

yea it's been funny to see all the people mocking Bernie nonstop cuz "Who's gonna pay for all that??" are now supporting a candidate who wants to spend billions and billions on dumb projects with no benefit. they truly don't give a shit about any of it.

it's even more mind boggling since Trump has a history of dicking over basically everyone who ever trusted in him. he is a proven grifter and scam artist who has somehow been given a pass to say he's donating "tens of millions" to charity despite absolutely zero evidence to back him up. he won't even release the audit letter that he claims is preventing him from showing his returns.

I guess if you're a deeply unhappy person who takes comfort in expressing rage, it makes sense to vote for the candidate whose presidency is most likely to stoke that rage.

how the hell do you beat this guy?

by revealing him as a weak, petulant man-baby

probably yeah. that Atlantic article about it was really good and I'm sure her debate team is doing the best they can. she'll probably do well I'm just afraid she's gonna start coughing and the MSM talks about nothing but that for the rest of the week

the handwringing on this thread is outta control

"If you're elected president, how would you solve X??"

"X wouldn't be an issue anymore if I win, believe me"

"Okay, moving on..."

that's not how the debates are structured

Trump has never been in a one-on-one debate where he has to speak for large chunks of time, he's going to get destroyed

so that will be what sinks him?

Just among voters who don't actively wish to see the extinction of the human race within their lifetime.

no one thing is going to "sink" Trump

his chances for winning are already super-shitty, the debates will make them shittier

the hands i wring are the best hands, amazing hands

yeah he has no ideas and if she riles him up he's gonna explode

like I get that everyone wants to somehow be reassured that there is absolutely positively no way he can win - but that is not a thing that can happen prior to election day. Until votes are cast there will always be some small chance, some bizarre confluence of circumstances, that could produce a Trump victory, which is apparently panic-inducing.

xxp

pretty much any reasonable projection i've seen gives him about a 1 in 3 shot at winning. that's kind of scary tbh

I have almost no faith that the debates are going to expose him in a way that significantly affects his support, not after that Commander in Chief forum, which unequivocally demonstrated his complete inability to form and express a coherent thought about ANYTHING, and yet it was pretty much spun (and received) as a draw.

the 1 in 3 chance is tot down to

1) terror attacks / other disasters btwn now and Nov 8

2) Clinton's fucking unforced errors / transparent phoniness

not after that Commander in Chief forum

nobody watched this. the debates will have a bigger audience. they won't be a nail-in-the-coffin thing (they never are) but they won't be good for him.

pretty much any reasonable projection i've seen gives him about a 1 in 3 shot at winning. that's kind of scary tbh

lol waht this isn't accurate at all given the electoral map and state polls

as noted upthread - what states is he gonna flip from Obama in '12 (hint: none)

1) terror attacks / other disasters btwn now and Nov 8

can't think of any of these that would break in trump's favour rather than hilary's

^^^

did Trump get a bump after Orlando?

yeah he has no ideas and if she riles him up he's gonna explode

― a (waterface), Wednesday, September 14, 2016 3:39 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

tmi

something absolutely catastrophic has to happen to Hillary for Trump to win - he would have to be viewed as a bitter-but-necessary-pill by a big chunk of the population that currently absolutely hates him and I can't see anything outside of some completely unpredictable apocalyptic event that would make that happen. Dem turnout would have to crater, GOP turnout would have to be maximized. What scenario could conceivably produce that result? Clinton dying I guess? But even then...

i'd amend it to "attacks that are either mishandled, endorsed or planned by Clinton"

well, thanks for cheering me up at least

did Trump get a bump after Orlando?

no but I think a lot of that is because he handled it like a giant idiot

for Trump to win I think a lot of 3rd party support has to break his way and the "shy Trump voter" thing has to turn out to be a real phenomenon. my gut is telling me people voting 3rd party will side with Hillary because most people are terrified of Trump winning but then again I have no fucking idea what is making so many people want to vote for Trump in the first place so who knows

i don't think HRC has especially suffered from unforced errors unless you believe media-stoked "gaffes" like getting sick are included in the category of unforced errors

the media seems convinced that "basket of deplorables" is an unforced error which is strange because it's worked brilliantly for her

no but I think a lot of that is because he handled it like a giant idiot

right, and he did it instantly! There's no reason to think an even bigger crisis would be to his advantage, he would react in the same predictably crass/stupid/inappropriate self-aggrandizing and exploitative way.

I have no fucking idea what is making so many people want to vote for Trump in the first place

we have several thousand posts that might be helpful in this respect

pretty much any reasonable projection i've seen gives him about a 1 in 3 shot at winning. that's kind of scary tbh

lol waht this isn't accurate at all given the electoral map and state polls

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, September 14, 2016 3:45 PM (fourteen minutes ago)

well........sure, i mean if you think you can do a better job than 538 or RCP then maybe make your own projection system? kind of feel like they've accounted for the "electoral map" and the "state polls" but i haven't read the fine print

1 in 3 feels about right for me. it's a 2 horse race and there's 8 weeks to go.

trump's chances go down every day nothing changes though.

/I have no fucking idea what is making so many people want to vote for Trump in the first place/

we have several thousand posts that might be helpful in this respect

538 currently giving Trump 30% is something that's happened just in the last couple of days! For the last few weeks he was mostly in the 10%-20% range, which is more realistic imo.

Trump does not have a 1 in 3 shot. The electoral math is awful for any Republican, much less one whose appeal primarily rests with white nationalists and angry people who don't know they're white nationalists.

He's gotta win Florida AND Pennsylvania AND Ohio and and and to win

the odds of *all* of the necessary states breaking for him are v v low if he can't even bother to field GOTV operations

if the initial "basket" remark was not a tactical error, why did she semi-back off it the next day? Or is this the Vulcan Chess Meme she has inherited from Obama?

right, and he did it instantly! There's no reason to think an even bigger crisis would be to his advantage, he would react in the same predictably crass/stupid/inappropriate self-aggrandizing and exploitative way.

Bannon and Conway seem to have at least partially muzzled him - for example he didn't tweet out anything awful when Hillary fainted

though tbf I'm starting to think there's something behind the campaign's sudden shift from "all health records should be public!" to "the candidates should have some privacy!"