my fellow liberal cucktards and white-genocide lesbians! the deplorables have risen, and what are we gonna do about it?
cf men's rights thread, that's racist thread, batshit cartoons thread, donald trump thread etc
fwiw https://www.rt.com/viral/361510-alt-right-cheat-sheet-racist/
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:13 (seven years ago) link
feel free to use 'hitlers' and 'deplorables' interchangeably itt
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:17 (seven years ago) link
"Hitlers" gives them the power they want. We don't want any of these people to start the Siege of Leningrad.
― how's life, Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:23 (seven years ago) link
what can they really besiege though, it'll be shit like Green Room from here on out, unless they seize power of a whole country (ahem)
actually Green Room feels like the first film of the resistance to this shit
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:41 (seven years ago) link
Ressentiment can tear a society apart. Absurd as these cuckmasters seem, I don't feel sanguine about the threat they pose.Con
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 October 2016 12:52 (seven years ago) link
how are they alt though?
― nashwan, Thursday, 6 October 2016 13:00 (seven years ago) link
They have the courage to actually say what everyone's thinking, unlike what-used-to-be-mainstream PC cuckservatives?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 13:13 (seven years ago) link
They use new forms of dehumanizing slang -- not just old fashioned slurs -- which is pretty alt.
― Treeship, Thursday, 6 October 2016 13:38 (seven years ago) link
what gets me is - what is their culture? what is their art? what do they even like?
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 13:49 (seven years ago) link
They're an alternative to US right wing consensus - instead of being pro free markets, pro Christian morality or pro strong defense they are just pro white nationalism. This obviously isn't /new/ but it is untraditional in the US and has (and continues?) to be a marginal movement. Their culture is on /b/ and maybe idk theredpill. It's memes, vidya, anime, gore pics, creepypasta, cruel lolz, cringe, and tons and tons of pr0n.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 13:57 (seven years ago) link
a marginal movement
Um, isn't their candidate the Republican nominee for President?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:02 (seven years ago) link
do they not like music, to paraphrase achewood
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:05 (seven years ago) link
I mean, it does feel like the logical endpoint of 4chan, but warped to such a putridity of feeling that I fail to see how these creatures can function in anything approaching society
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:07 (seven years ago) link
also, have Anonymous declared war on them yet, or is there overlap?
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:09 (seven years ago) link
you're so warped by being a cucked sjw that you can't see that their vision of society is the right one, maaaaan
― spongeboy bigpants (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:09 (seven years ago) link
They have a music board you can check out. They like vaporwave. Re Trump he is their candidate but not exclusively idk it's hard to gauge.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:10 (seven years ago) link
i think there is some overlap
xp
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:10 (seven years ago) link
there's an alt right sketch comedy show on Adult Swim now, Million Dollar Extreme, created by this guy:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca5Sg3NUsAENTlG.png
― larry appleton, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:12 (seven years ago) link
their legitimation on adult swim is deeply unsurprising
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:13 (seven years ago) link
their liking of vaporwave makes a weird sort of sense. they are the death eaters
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:14 (seven years ago) link
i'd like to take this opportunity to big up my favourite alt-right dipshit davis aurini: ostentatious whisky drinker, skull enthusiast, publicly-funded kung-fu movie auteur, and three-time winner of the international skeleton from superted lookalike contest
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ix1Xr8QHpRw/maxresdefault.jpg
just look at his lil' face!
― spongeboy bigpants (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:15 (seven years ago) link
These guys are just adorable
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:17 (seven years ago) link
I forgot to cf rolling fedora
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:18 (seven years ago) link
i've been watching million dollar extreme. sometimes it is really really funny, and sometimes it is ideologically okay (like the sketch about our shitty drinking water) and then they just say something openly misogynistic or racist or the sketch is just brutally uncomfortable. idk i'd like to discuss it but i don't have much to say. it's clearly unique, and sam is clearly v smart + funny, and also i'm disappointed in adult swim for giving them a platform.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:19 (seven years ago) link
i don't think fedora is entirely linked. there may be associations/links between fedora/brony culture and the alt-right but generally speaking i think fedoras are more likely to show up in cringe threads than be worn by hardcore white supremacists.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
where is the alt-right music board?
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
I forgot to cf rolling fedora― imago, Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:18 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― imago, Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:18 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And Why is casual racism/sexism more accepted in video games than other forms of media (these days)?
― how's life, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:21 (seven years ago) link
xxp counterpoint:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t4AcWFogD60/maxresdefault.jpg
― spongeboy bigpants (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:21 (seven years ago) link
http://boards.4chan.org/mu/
nb that i don't think 4chan is 100% alt-right but i think broadly speaking a lot of the aesthetic comes from there and there's lots of crossover. i wouldn't consider st0rmfr4nt alt-right - that seems more traditionally racist to me.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:22 (seven years ago) link
some of these shitheads are throwing a pro-trump art festival in my borough, i read on the hardening thread.
― look at the morning people (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:28 (seven years ago) link
I looked at that /mu/ for one minute and some poor schmuck started a thread about how Esperanza Spalding, a black female artist, is really good (which she is) - devoured in seconds
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:34 (seven years ago) link
I don't think Million Dollar Extreme is really a part of this
― frogbs, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:37 (seven years ago) link
sam for sure is and mde board on reddit certainly believes it is
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:47 (seven years ago) link
MDE absolutely is
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:48 (seven years ago) link
They're an alternative to US right wing consensus - instead of being pro free markets, pro Christian morality or pro strong defense they are just pro white nationalism. This obviously isn't /new/ but it is untraditional in the US and has (and continues?) to be a marginal movement.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:51 (seven years ago) link
i would just like to point out that i wrote about these guys 4 years ago
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:52 (seven years ago) link
Milo isn't alt-right. He's an alt-right wannabe / fellow traveller.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:53 (seven years ago) link
Oh, I thought he was a quasi-leader. I'm probably on way the wrong page, then.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
my impression of MDE is that it's an elaborate troll on anything and everything, I'm guessing the alt-right probably has claimed him but I dunno if Sam has any real political views besides "lol"
― frogbs, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
politics for various alt-righters probably differ but on those topics i'd guess the majority are pro-protectionism anti-immigration agnostic on Christian morality (and in many cases ideologically opposed to religious faith) isolationist or in some cases extreme hawkism (drop nukes on the middle east). and of course the central component is defending the race against #whitegenocide. also jew-hating.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:55 (seven years ago) link
frogbs you've seen this? https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-alt-right-has-its-own-comedy-tv-show-on-a-time-warner-ne
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:56 (seven years ago) link
Wait hold on, Breitbart is core alt-right.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:57 (seven years ago) link
i think the key attribute marking the "alt" (a p fraught and dumb prefix imo) is determinism.
I dunno if Sam has any real political views besides "lol"
― frogbs, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:54 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
god knows if i can or want to find it again but there are forum posts out there by him that are the now-standard post-libertarian line, like: "i used to be apolitical and in favor of freedom, but now i see that america has been ruined since the civil rights movement and feminism, it needs to be purged" etc
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:58 (seven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:57 AM (twenty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
they are johnny come latelies
it's really not. it jumped on the alt-right bandwagon thru Milo but he started as just an observer and tho the alt-right will pretty much accept any celebrity legitimacy they can get, he remains a controversial figure in the movement (bc he's gay and jewish). he wrote this around the time breitbart began embracing the alt-right: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/ - where you can see that he's interacting w/ them more as an anthropologist than a participant. xxp
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 14:59 (seven years ago) link
didn't realise that Yiannopoulos had jewish heritage
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/203888/donald-trumps-little-boy
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:05 (seven years ago) link
frogbs you've seen this? https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-alt-right-has-its-own-comedy-tv-show-on-a-time-warner-ne― Mordy, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:56 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:56 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I guess I never really followed the persona behind it too closely. I read a lot of that stuff as a parody of the alt-right, though I suppose at this point, what's the difference
― frogbs, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:06 (seven years ago) link
goole you always amaze/scare me with your knowledge of this stuff
― k3vin k., Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:12 (seven years ago) link
Dark Enlightenment feeds into this, right?
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:13 (seven years ago) link
i guess my knowledge of this stuff is just unsurprising :p
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:15 (seven years ago) link
dark enlightenment seems v tenuously related i don't think alt-righters are reading yudowsky or less wrong
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:16 (seven years ago) link
k3v: yeah i still don't know what to think of it all
weirdly i can trace how i found this shit back to ilx! sort of. to simon reynolds, to marxist anglo music bloggers like k-punk, to the weird end of critical theory -- some of those people 'switched sides' politically, drove what ended up being called the "dark enlightenment"
xp it's bigger now that it used to be, lots of factions and true scotsman stuff, but i think "DE" is def part of it
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:18 (seven years ago) link
this is the first ive heard of dark enlightenment
― look at the morning people (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:21 (seven years ago) link
i want to know more but i aint googling it
cybernazis
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:22 (seven years ago) link
Does Dark Enlightenment = neo-Reactionaries, i.e. people who are 'conservatives' in the 18th century sense (oppose democracy and egalitarianism, want to return to monarchy and aristocracy and explicit patriarchy)?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:24 (seven years ago) link
Because if so, that's actually kind of cool (as long as they don't gain any real power).
to the weird end of critical theory -- some of those people 'switched sides' politically, drove what ended up being called the "dark enlightenment"
who are these people?
― ogmor, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:25 (seven years ago) link
yup
like i said about determinism, the 'enlightenment' part i guess is their justifications are scientific, not solely (or blended with) tradition and religion
xp ogmor: key guy is nick land
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:26 (seven years ago) link
it's just a couple of angry media studies lecturers trying to blow minds with their edgy racism
― don't even see how this was a duck (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:26 (seven years ago) link
Do any of them go so far as to fully embrace feudalism or do they still want to somehow preserve capitalism and the market?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:28 (seven years ago) link
re DE/NrX people
xxp the Spiked crew are part of that side of things, right?
― Neil S, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:29 (seven years ago) link
this is a good thing from moldbug that goes into the DE ideology:http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives.html
we discussed it a bit on the political philosophy thread maybe a year or so ago?
also these Slatestarcodex pieces are good:(apparently the website is down but when it comes back up)
slatestarcodex.com/2013/10/20/the-anti-reactionary-faq/http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:30 (seven years ago) link
i feel like with a lot of the dark enlightenment stuff there are good critiques of contemporary liberal society but rather than follow them to a reasonable place of like participatory dissent they move into this insane territory of 'well if things aren't perfect today that means we should all become monarchists' which is pretty dumb. i also don't think it's v related to the alt-right i don't think your average white supremacist alt-right 4-chan do-it-for-the-lolz poster is thinking very deeply about the philosophical underpinnings of his ideas. like you might think that DE is giving intellectual cover for bigots but i don't think those bigots want or need that cover.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
Goddamn, that Unqualified Reservations thing is long and I haven't got to an interesting point yet.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
oh god *deep breath* yeah there are still some (how many?) throne and altar european right wingers out there. or weirdo catholic sedevecantist types. that all precedes and doesn't really relate to what we're talking about here, but their basic beliefs about the world look identical to me. because of the internet there's a ton of crossover now i guess. the energy of an election season has run a lot of it together too.
an uhh illustrative example (and god forgive me, as many whacko blog posts i may have read, i don't know all the details) is a dude name mike anissimov, who worked for a transhumanist/AI think tank, then had some kind of scheme to set up a settlement in idaho to reestablish feudal hierachy after the US collapses, i think? so you have the tech nerd economy and D&D fantasy royalist stuff tied together with white power and antisemitism
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:38 (seven years ago) link
At what point does he stop making dumbass red-state/blue-state stereotypes and generalizations and get to DE ideology?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:38 (seven years ago) link
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:39 (seven years ago) link
it's like 8 or 9 articles. i like when he talks about colonialism and the third world and the meaning of liberation/nationalism etc. there are productive contradictions embedded in left-wing post-cold war ideologies (like third world nationalism v. globalization secularism) of course you don't need moldbug to tell you that but he imo makes some provocative points. xxp
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:39 (seven years ago) link
um - end of first letter beginning of second iirc? he spends a lot of time making spurious conclusions about crime in victorian england which is a bummer that scott addresses in his anti-reactionary faq.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:40 (seven years ago) link
goole: Wow
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:40 (seven years ago) link
oh god *deep breath* yeah there are still some (how many?) throne and altar european right wingers out there. or weirdo catholic sedevecantist types. that all precedes and doesn't really relate to what we're talking about here,
i think like current poland + russia are aspirational models for some of these white americans
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:41 (seven years ago) link
been a while since i went through nick land / moldbug and may have this wrong but there seems to be a strain in deep techbro dark enlightenment where we literally rebuild god (as inhuman synthetic intelligence born of global capitalism itself) so we can kneel properly? (to god, but also to his deserving priests?)
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:53 (seven years ago) link
i haven't heard anything like that - seems crazy (not like mainstream DE isn't)
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:54 (seven years ago) link
have u noticed a pattern wrt this claim
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:55 (seven years ago) link
That moldbug guy makes a pretty terrible argument.
― larry appleton, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:55 (seven years ago) link
could swear that's in nick land somewhere but maybe it's just my own cult-of-moloch fanfic xxp
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:56 (seven years ago) link
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, October 6, 2016 10:53 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
tbh i would read the shit out of a novel about this
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:05 (seven years ago) link
it sounds close to the concept of this Dilbert cartoon from 1996:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQqnskzW8AAfFzo.jpg
― soref, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:09 (seven years ago) link
It is a terrible article, in a terrible tone - intentionally rather than accidentally Donald Sutherland when he's just playing with you, before he turns steely.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:11 (seven years ago) link
weird soap opera detail: nick land is jeremy greenspan's (junior boys) brother in law
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:12 (seven years ago) link
i am wrong in notable ways. from this thing about him by robin mackay:
Digital technology, according to Land, unveiled a side of numbers that subtracted them completely from the power-structures of meaning and signification that made language a prison-house for thought; it even removed numbers from the stratified realms of mathematics, into a pure, flat plane of immanent materiality inhabited only by ‘tics.’ Accelerating ‘in-silico’ Capital’s planetary experiment of ‘tacking’ human culture onto these tic-numbers so as to tear it apart, Land believed, would allow him to complete what deconstruction could only gesture at in its endless cycles of philosophical titillation: It would dismantle the power institutionalized in language and sense, and open up a reliable communication line with something unknown – a pure material dispersion not preprocessed by models derived from the past....For Land, such theoretical propositions were also machines for excitation, devices to meld with and accelerate the planetary intensification that would finally allow the ‘body without organs’ to shed its human skin. If Philosophy thereby becomes a species of hype (or ‘hyperstition,’ according to the CCRU’s neologism) then are Land’s detractors (now, as then) right to say that his outlook is ultimately indistinguishable from a passive acceptance of a ‘neoconservative’ agenda – that his theoretical advocacy of the ‘acceleration’ of the capitalist process, in practice, simply endorses the maintenance of capitalist power structures rather than their dismantling (whether revolutionary or ameliorative)?
...
For Land, such theoretical propositions were also machines for excitation, devices to meld with and accelerate the planetary intensification that would finally allow the ‘body without organs’ to shed its human skin. If Philosophy thereby becomes a species of hype (or ‘hyperstition,’ according to the CCRU’s neologism) then are Land’s detractors (now, as then) right to say that his outlook is ultimately indistinguishable from a passive acceptance of a ‘neoconservative’ agenda – that his theoretical advocacy of the ‘acceleration’ of the capitalist process, in practice, simply endorses the maintenance of capitalist power structures rather than their dismantling (whether revolutionary or ameliorative)?
Nothing human makes it out of the near-future.[...]Garbage time is running out.Can what is playing you make it to level 2?
[...]
Garbage time is running out.
Can what is playing you make it to level 2?
so the way i described the human hierarchy in such a world is tres old-world. humans and humanity are shed. in this piece land's potential "neoconservativism" afaict relies on this divine birth/radical deconstruction not happening -- or at least not happening yet? i might think that chasing such an apotheosis of capital is going to create a prison-world even if it's successful tho? idk?
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:19 (seven years ago) link
(second quote block there -- "nothing human makes it out" etc -- is land not mackay)
yeah afaict land's thing is we (or 'intelligence') have to escape this planet, and we can't do that if democracy doesn't fall, because it makes people stupid and gives power to the wrong ones. basically the singularity and a return to 19th century heroic/intellectual/colonial values are by nature the same. or something
funny he was such a cheney-ist pro war kind of guy when bush was in office. which makes his turn away from neoconservatism and towards austrian economics, the old right and racism look pretty cynical after all that fell apart -- after obama, after the housing crash.
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:28 (seven years ago) link
xp and if you wanna read land tie the capitalist-genetic singularity fetish thing in with just reams and reams of hot takes on trayvon martin and john darbyshire (+ with moldbug's aesthetic stroke of subbing in the evocative word Cathedral anyplace nixon would have said Establishment) here u go
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:30 (seven years ago) link
hah i didn't know that website existed
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:31 (seven years ago) link
Probably not a good idea to stare directly at the Moldbug
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:32 (seven years ago) link
ilx policy is actually to ban anyone who talks about moldbug in order to prevent the possibility of bringing him into being
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:35 (seven years ago) link
hey so goole/dlh --- since you guys seem to make the occasional foray onto these guys' home turf: do you ever get the sense that they're out there reading the equivalent lefty literature/writing? maybe this is just too much time on ilx, but i do get the sense that a lot of ppl here actually go out there and read the horrible primary sources of the right, whereas i've never really thought that the right does likewise
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:35 (seven years ago) link
Probably some of them are reading left-accelerationist material so they can argue against it?
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:36 (seven years ago) link
I don't get the impression that they're reading left wing media like counterpunch or jacobin but yes NYT WPost as emblematic of "liberalism" - they are opposed to mainstream liberalism not to far left radicalism which is only on their radar insofar as they conflate it w the mainstream.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:40 (seven years ago) link
well we are all totally immersed in the ridiculous lie that is the progressive worldview, the virus that ate america when jefferson's continent-of-monticellos didn't happen, so they would prob say that they are exposed to the equivalent just by going to school/talking to anyone. but no they prob don't read jacobin or whatever? xp hah yeah what mordy said.
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:41 (seven years ago) link
This is a little off topic but I've noticed a big talking point on the right is that BLM has endorsed Hillary. They have trouble distinguishing between moderate liberalism and further left groups and get confused when you explain that such orgs are freq opposed to Dem "neoliberalism" and will likely vote 3rd party.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:42 (seven years ago) link
(otoh land as a philosophy prof in the 90s was presumably better-acquainted w the state-of-the-art than i am xp)
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:43 (seven years ago) link
the jewish right-wing has a similar issue. like they keep conflating the anti-israel flag burners outside the DNC with the DNC itself - missing the point that they were outside the convention hall bc they are not a part of the Dem coalition.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link
gotcha, that makes sense
mostly curious because it seems like lefties here (myself included) have a certain grotesque fascination with the alt-right (hence this thread), and i've never seen the equivalent (unless it's someone who abandoned the radical left and made an about face)
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link
They have trouble distinguishing between moderate liberalism and further left groups
yeah this as you say is a problem all over the right -- from now-squishy old-guard stuff like NRO to hardcore trump fans/demon-summoners. feels weird to keep mentioning nixon as he wasn't a "political philosopher" or anything but he more than anyone else is who i think of when i read this stuff. the perception that everyone to your left, from the wapo to mao, is smooshed into a big malevolent world-dominating ball of wrongness and perversity.
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:54 (seven years ago) link
idk at least in a social media sense there's some contact between the irony rude left and the bizarro right, at least the more self-aware people in it (not clowns like milo or the hapless pickup guys).
anti-hillary and anti-centrist writers, vice's michael tracey as an example, get a lot of traction over there. that said i'm not certain what mtracey's politics are...
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:54 (seven years ago) link
Isn't Glenn Beck obsessed with Marxism and Fabian socialism? He had the leader of a minor socialist third party on his show once.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link
He preferred him to Obama because at least he was honest about his socialism.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:56 (seven years ago) link
Holy shit, the Dave Aurini dude wrote a book! It is naturally set in post-apoc Ontario
http://www.castaliahouse.com/review-as-i-walk-these-broken-roads-by-d-m-j-aurini/
And this is a stolen joke, but somebody elsewhere pointed out that post-apoc = SKULLZ
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNn-M8TUAAAPg3U.png
https://mobile.twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/637820321526095872
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
idk at least in a social media sense there's some contact between the irony rude left and the bizarro right, at least the more self-aware people in it
this is interesting; my understanding of modern vanguard politics is prob totally crippled by not being on twitter tbh. are anti-neoliberal leftists sometimes considered as fellow critics of the cathedral? or like of parts of it? or
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
when useful i've even seen st0rmfr4nt posters quote the intercept approvingly
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
goole doing quality work here as usual
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 6 October 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
cf https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=theintercept.com+stormfront.com&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#safe=off&q=theintercept+site:stormfront.org (would link to sf direct but idk if this thread is deindexed yet?)
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
gonna take yr word for it
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:02 (seven years ago) link
it's not a difficult thing to google
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:04 (seven years ago) link
a) this is not the best conclusion to draw imob) check those likes
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/783994097912741888
― goole, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:06 (seven years ago) link
a couple rouge billionaires
thought he was orange
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
Split the diff, call him a sickly salmon hue?
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:13 (seven years ago) link
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, October 6, 2016 12:44 PM (thirty-six minutes ago)
might be a bit biased but i tend to think people on the left are a bit more intellectually curious than those on the far right
― k3vin k., Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:23 (seven years ago) link
plus we're cucks
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:24 (seven years ago) link
i tried to read that moldbug DE blogpost and it was utterly insane and incomprehensible. i'm an ex-catholic, and he started out making his case by making up completely nonsense gibberish about catholicism. ok, maybe it's dated badly, the "pope" he's talking about is benedict and progressives are MUCH more favorably disposed towards francis than they were towards benedict, but even if i mentally displace francis as "pope" in my head with benedict, it's nonsense. he's trying to convince me that he understands progressivism by failing to understand the catholic church.
my sense is that many in the alt-right - and not exclusively the alt-right - are highly creative lunatics. you know, when i was growing up the lunatics were, well, pretty boring people. they would talk to you about how rock and roll was the devil's music, about fluoridation, about communism.
and the alt-right are not like this in that they can come up with a new bizarre thought pattern every five minutes. this is REWARDED. this is CREATIVITY. reminds me of henry ford and his anti-semitism. a guy like oculus rift guy, he gets rich for "thinking outside the box", and he has no incentive to ever stop doing it.
and i can relate to them because, ok, i say some pretty crazy shit, though i've learned to stop saying most of it on the internet. i think some pretty crazy shit. how do you argue with me when i'm saying crazy shit like that? you can't. it's a weird kind of reactionary ideology in that it's post-rational. once you start believing in the singularity or the matrix or whatever, your little brain can come up with all kinds of fevered delusions, and "talking sense" into them is not an option.
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:29 (seven years ago) link
we're afraid of them, they're afraid of women and non-whites
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
they're also afraid of not being the best ones
― imago, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:35 (seven years ago) link
I don't think I've come across this. Good to know before I accidentally hate-punctuated something, although they really shouldn't be allowed to get away with taking punctuation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_parentheses
"For non-antisemitic punctuation marks, see bracket."
― jmm, Thursday, 6 October 2016 17:57 (seven years ago) link
who uses triple parentheses in the course of normal punctuation?
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
Lisp programmers?
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
SSC website appears to be back up in case anyone wants to check out the links above
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
maybe this is just too much time on ilx, but i do get the sense that a lot of ppl here actually go out there and read the horrible primary sources of the right, whereas i've never really thought that the right does likewise
tumblrinaction
― 1staethyr, Thursday, 6 October 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
SSC's summary of NRx turns out to be more readable than the Moldbug original.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 21:41 (seven years ago) link
i think it's important to keep in mind that the relationship between reactionary philosophy and the alt-right is super tenuous and i'm more inclined to say that they share a similar nouveau right-wing flavor bc they're both emerging in this 21st century western milieu but i don't think 4channers are reading these guys and getting really turned onto neo-reactionarism. if anything i think probably the same things animating the 4chan right-wingers are animating ppl like moldbug but they're smart enough to come up with an intellectual veneer to justify it to themselves. it's not comparable to - for eg in another 'hip' right-wing ideology - libertarians who read ayn rand and that was formative. red pillism is kind of DE lite in that they both are awakening you to the cultural tyranny of liberal mainstream institutions but honestly you don't need either to get there - hating these orgs was the formative bit, not the metaphor used to explain why.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 21:54 (seven years ago) link
also kinda interesting phenomenon is the alt-left. not as it's generally used to - i think - mean the 'regressive left' (or if you google 'alt left' the entire Democratic party bc of the aforementioned ideological compression by the right), but leftists like platypus who probably share a lot of the same values or inclinations of people like moldbug in terms of preserving western culture but where mb sees the enlightenment as the source of corruption they see it as the thing worth protecting against the hordes of anti-enlightenment non-westerners. they both have a lot of the same enemies - post-colonialists, islamists and PC liberals. ultimately you are trying to justify why the west must resist alternative cultural memes, and more practically why you need to oppress 'fifth-columnists' or limit immigration.
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:00 (seven years ago) link
highly creative lunatics
they seem to me like people who were way into d&d in the 80s and matured with the intellectual/social fashions (kind of the way, elsewhere on the social landscape, food became a thing, music stopped being cool, ppl are enthusiastic to the point of value-identification about 'netflixing' i.e. watching tv, grown adults wearing cartoon costumes in public is a thing, etc.) into trying their hand at running ~a far more real kind of campaign~
like, being juiced by the phenomenon of the internet into the belief that social reality is much more alterable than a politico/philosopher-king of yore would have ever wished, they're frenzied into treating the socioeconomic affairs of common life as if they were a matter of creating character sheets and designing maps of dragons' lairs, doing all that 'world-engineering' work via a bizzaro-world version of enlightenment-era 'rational debate', republic of letters, etc.
― j., Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:10 (seven years ago) link
where mb sees the enlightenment as the source of corruption they see it as the thing worth protecting against the hordes of anti-enlightenment non-westerners
Isn't this a more mainstream right-wing view, though? I thought this is basically Yiannopoulos's position.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:11 (seven years ago) link
no mention of gamer gate yet? this was a core moment for the alt-right imo..
I remember reading all the coverage when it started and thought to myself 'if the GOP is smart they would be using this as a route to get to young people'.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:13 (seven years ago) link
at the very least paying lip service to it i think you're right xp
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:13 (seven years ago) link
gamergate is also when milo went from fringe breitbart writer to cult of personality
he turned into "jared leto getting into character for the joker" so gradually we hardly even noticed
― nomar, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
was hardly alone in this but the moment gamergate started i thought "oh god this is it" -- white male nerd culture had been toxic and resentful for ages by then, just a big lock awaiting a big fascist key
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:22 (seven years ago) link
He fears Islam because it is homophobic, anti-freedom, etc.xps
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:24 (seven years ago) link
specifically remember going to a bar in 2007ish w some old high school lan party friends and thinking what is happening to these people
(nb #notalllanpartyfriends and even some of those specific people really pulled out of it with time)
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:24 (seven years ago) link
I mean, "they hate our freedoms" is basically expressing this idea, I would think:
Hard to see what is "alt" or "left" (except maybe in the 18th century sense) about this.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:25 (seven years ago) link
He fears Islam because it is homophobic, anti-freedom, etc.
i think the trouble w/ the right-wing and the enlightenment is that they're prepared to jettison all kinds of essential elements of it to 'save it.'
sorry re alt left i left out some important bits - obv if that alone constituted their political identity they would just be conservatives but they are marxists
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:27 (seven years ago) link
Ah, I get you. So they are, um, nationalist socialists?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
No I wouldn't say so. They're in a clear real Marxist tradition in their writing and there isn't an obvious nationalist or racial component as much as a general pro West one. Also pretty sure they're anti fascist and probably more socially liberal at least when it comes to ppl we shouldn't lock out of the gates
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:41 (seven years ago) link
i think it's important to keep in mind that the relationship between reactionary philosophy and the alt-right is super tenuous and i'm more inclined to say that they share a similar nouveau right-wing flavor bc they're both emerging in this 21st century western milieu but i don't think 4channers are reading these guys and getting really turned onto neo-reactionarism. if anything i think probably the same things animating the 4chan right-wingers are animating ppl like moldbug but they're smart enough to come up with an intellectual veneer to justify it to themselves.
I think this is broadly right but I'd say thin or tenuous rather than super-tenuous - I get the sense there's a chain of reddits mediating between them - also it's early, like you can see Moldbug/Land hardening into Canon as alt-right becomes an accepted position. But yeah, I don't think they're causal. 'same things animating' is true I think - & probably why the aesthetics all fit together if you squint- horror seems like a primary genre for this stuff, above all Lovecraft.
― woof, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
Land's recent fiction seems to be in that vein, w/ a dash of technothriller, but fucked if I'm going to read it.
― woof, Thursday, 6 October 2016 22:49 (seven years ago) link
what gets me is - what is their culture? what is their art? what do they even like?― imago, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― imago, Thursday, October 6, 2016 9:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I've encountered a lot of people like this on the internet, and not only recently - it's the debating style honed on 4chan of course, and I once read a very interesting article about the internal logic behind it, but can't seem to find it now.
Anyway, whenever I've asked "so what do you actually like then?" the response has always been something along the lines of "ha, I'm not fooling for that one, whatever I say you'll just say it's shit" - which is wrong (I am actually interested and wouldn't just say it was shit. of course.) but also very telling about their fear of being seen to sincerely love something.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Thursday, 6 October 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link
which is weird for me because i feel like peak sarcasm was, like, three years ago. maybe with them it never stopped.
― a confederacy of lampreys (rushomancy), Thursday, 6 October 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, Thursday, October 6, 2016 5:00 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'll admit i'm not familiar at all with 'platypus society' -- a quick google shows it's some kind of marxist reading group? -- but the rest of these terms like 'alt-left' and 'regressive left' are so recent and fraught and borne of social media conflicts, that, idk man you lost me
― goole, Friday, 7 October 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link
"alt-left": a non-conservative who doesn't like hillary clinton and isn't above a little twitter trolling"regressive left": what you say when you realize calling someone an SJW makes you sound like a dipshit
i'll look into platypus tho. is it some kind of laschian class/econ left + social right kind of thing?
― goole, Friday, 7 October 2016 17:06 (seven years ago) link
i said this above but didn't really elaborate on it: the tension between enlightenment and hierarchy is p easy to square if you share their determinism -- this is where all that bell curve and (code phrase) "human biodiversity" shit comes in, ie only people who are by their "nature" intelligent and industrious are capable of bearing or enjoying liberty. everyone else gets the whip.
― goole, Friday, 7 October 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link
weirdly i can trace how i found this shit back to ilx! sort of. to simon reynolds, to marxist anglo music bloggers like k-punk, to the weird end of critical theory
holy shit i had no idea until right now that one of old c.c.r.u. dudes was a major alt-right figurehead.
― a basset hound (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, 7 October 2016 17:25 (seven years ago) link
one minute you're reading kodwo eshun, the next you're lamenting that william wilberforce wasn't hanged for treason
― goole, Friday, 7 October 2016 17:29 (seven years ago) link
social right in effect but i do think there's a meaningful difference between 'cultural memes' and 'human biodiversity' even tho i realize most ppl feel the former is just a more acceptable wrapper for the same stuff the latter is doing
― Mordy, Friday, 7 October 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Alt-right now, baby, it's the alt-right now
― salthigh, Friday, 7 October 2016 20:19 (seven years ago) link
Can we label the pricks at Spiked!/LM the alt-left? Because they are still very much around, and use many of the same tactics as the alt-right.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:07 (seven years ago) link
Spiked are left-wing now?
― imago, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
the alt-left is a pretty big movement though - in essence (imo) they're lefties (usually full communists) who hate safe spaces and *hate* gender politics and really don't have time for identity politics of any kind except class. think this has been covered upthread though
― imago, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
Isn't that just the orthodox Marxist left tho
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, 7 October 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
Like paleo-Left
i guess, but willing to believe there's a significant wing of them that loves the internet and all it can be used for
― imago, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:35 (seven years ago) link
read that as "the pricks of Spiked!/ILM". I don't think that anyone outside of that group really thinks of the Furedists as being part of the left anymore, and even when Brendan O'Neill describes himself as a marxist it seems to mainly be for trolling purposes or nostalgia for youthful radicalism afaict?
― soref, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:41 (seven years ago) link
weird thing about them suposedly being marxists is that the Spiked online people generally have little or nothing to say about economics from what I've seen, it's all culture wars stuff
― soref, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:44 (seven years ago) link
Their economic take is supposedly "support extreme version of free market -> encourage hyperinflation -> capitalism collapses -> le socialist revolution", but they're as keen to talk about it as Scientologists are to chat about Xenu, so who knows.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:51 (seven years ago) link
just looked at Spiked for the first time in ages to check if their "ppl who are offended by Trump's 'grab them by the pussy' comments are reactionary misanthropic prudes" thinkpiece has gone live yet, but there seems to be some unaccountable delay.
― soref, Friday, 7 October 2016 22:54 (seven years ago) link
― a basset hound (strongo hulkington's ghost dad), Friday, October 7, 2016 7:25 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Who does this allude to?
― the tightening is plateauing (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 7 October 2016 23:21 (seven years ago) link
Nick Land, presumably?
― soref, Friday, 7 October 2016 23:22 (seven years ago) link
Oh I see, gotcha
― the tightening is plateauing (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 7 October 2016 23:29 (seven years ago) link
The way he presents it, the argument seems riddled with holes, though, even the critique of progressive hegemony part (although I acknowledge that he's not an actual NRx guy himself). The Noam Chomsky example is odd since (unlike e.g. Milton Friedman or Henry Kissinger) Chomsky did not get a professorship or 'get rich' because of his social/political commentary (which is essentially done in his free time) but for his work in linguistics. His influence on actual governments in the world is probably negligible compared to the other two examples, who are not progressives, or are at the least not as progressive. Even Philippe Rushton enjoyed a successful academic career arguing explicitly racist views in the actual academic work he was paid to do. And if we assume that Chomsky is indulged because he says "we need to be more liberal/progressive/democratic", reinforcing the progressive tendencies of post-Enlightenment Western society, surely someone in the Stalinist USSR who published the equivalent, i.e. articles saying "Stalin isn't a real Communist! We need to be much more truly Communist" would not have been indulged. This is more or less what the Plastic People of the Universe did in 70s Czechoslovakia and they were imprisoned and censored. #toomuchtimeonmyhands
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Saturday, 8 October 2016 12:38 (seven years ago) link
Bot for the lolz:
http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/7/13202794/arguetron-twitter-bot-alt-right-internet-bigots-4chan-sarah-nyberg
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 8 October 2016 12:50 (seven years ago) link
I watched some MDE and apart from a bit of liberal baiting, theres nothing obv right wing about it. kind of going for that dark sinister surrealism thats adult swim's stock in trade but MDE isnt all that funny
― Neptune Bingo (Michael B), Saturday, 8 October 2016 13:01 (seven years ago) link
maybe you didn't watch enough if you didn't notice anything right wing about it
― Mordy, Saturday, 8 October 2016 13:02 (seven years ago) link
yeah maybe. its godawful either way
― Neptune Bingo (Michael B), Saturday, 8 October 2016 13:26 (seven years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, October 8, 2016 2:50 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lololol @ "dreamcast was the best console"
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 8 October 2016 19:35 (seven years ago) link
A Facebook friend I met backpacking around a decade ago. He seemed moreorless alright at the time. This is his (cropped) current profile picture. Should I unfriend or do I wait around for insights into the deplorables?
http://i.imgur.com/2t6vZ5I.jpg
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Saturday, 8 October 2016 22:04 (seven years ago) link
That facial hair is unacceptable on its own.
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Saturday, 8 October 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link
you get off facebook forever imo
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 8 October 2016 23:26 (seven years ago) link
I've heard that the alt-right is increasingly turning against Milo for being too Jewish.
I've got a theory that they are actually part of the main audience for cuckold porn, with the racism, the staggering insecurity about their masculinity, women as either cheating ice queen megabitches or vulnerable property to be degraded.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 October 2016 01:27 (seven years ago) link
http://www.inquisitr.com/3572882/milo-yiannopoulos-buying-4chan-alt-right-superstar-plans-to-make-offer-that-could-save-image-sharing-board-from-closing-down/
― how's life, Sunday, 9 October 2016 10:27 (seven years ago) link
surely if 4chan folds it will be because of the will of free markets?
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:12 (seven years ago) link
Unnamed "wealthy financier" = Martin Shkreli? 4chan dream team
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:23 (seven years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/09/call-me-a-racist-but-dont-say-im-a-buddhist-meet-the-alt-right
― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:32 (seven years ago) link
why are the guardian always telling me to meet people
― Har-@-Iago (wins), Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:42 (seven years ago) link
v intolerant of u to not want some alt-right pals
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 9 October 2016 13:03 (seven years ago) link
i have some philosophy pals who are in regular contact with nick land, not about his lovely 'hyperracism' stuff but it's nevertheless an odd and worrying thing when reasonable and nice people still think he's an acceptable person to be engaging with and promoting
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 9 October 2016 13:05 (seven years ago) link
I just assumed this was the case. I need a US map with overlay of cuckold porn popularity stat.
― "raw buttin' these toilet seats" (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:06 (seven years ago) link
Cuckold not featured but it's amazing that the most popular are either incest, cartoons or not involving men.
http://cdn1b.static.pornhub.phncdn.com/insights-static//wp-content/uploads/2016/02/pornhub-insights-us-top-search-terms-map.png
― everything, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:11 (seven years ago) link
― Har-@-Iago (wins), Sunday, 9 October 2016 12:42 (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
They're worried about you, are you eating right
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:12 (seven years ago) link
Xp that is a srsly boring map tbh I mean lesbian porn, rly, entrylev
― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:14 (seven years ago) link
I wonder if Trump has inspired greater interest in incest porn, or if the American taste for incest porn explains Trump. Questions.
― larry appleton, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:14 (seven years ago) link
Maybe to generalize it more, the American ethic of power exploitation wearing the veneer of family and love. America as a country, the mother/father, exploiting its own sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, offering a hand that says love, but wants something else. /trenchant
― larry appleton, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:17 (seven years ago) link
>I've heard that the alt-right is increasingly turning against Milo for being too Jewish.
The alt right never totally accepted Milo, it's the other way around. He's piggybacking on it. The right is gaining countercultural currency (the left = the new soccermoms) and Milo sees a market in that.
But at the end of the day he's principally a cultural libertarian. His politics are really just garden-variety "right on maaaan" level stuff, except unlike most libs he's not a hypocrite and takes it to its logical conclusion and rejects extreme conservative ideologies like Islam (as Islam works in execution anywhere it gains a foothold).
But he's a liberal. The alt-right is at core NOT liberal. Like any loud new movement the alt-right's message is foggy but at its core there's this rejection modernity and egalitarianism that's radical and heretical to contemporary culture way beyond Milo's most "offensive" statements. Milo doesn't wanna go back to pre-Enlightenment thinking, a big chunk of the alt-right does. They'll use each other while it's convenient but one of these days they'll see each other for what they really are, bitter enemies.
― punksishippies, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 02:55 (seven years ago) link
>I've got a theory that they are actually part of the main audience for cuckold porn, with the racism, the staggering insecurity about their masculinity, women as either cheating ice queen megabitches or vulnerable property to be degraded.
I think it's more benign than that. What we're seeing is the first generation of men to try to reclaim masculinity--years ago, DENYING masculinity was an act of rebellion, now it's the other way around--but it's an alien thing to these sheltered young men raised by single parents and they've kinda got sea legs. So they overcompensate, fake it until they make it. The more nauseating/cringey elements of the culture, like the whole MRA/redpill world, are a symptom of that.
― punksishippies, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 03:07 (seven years ago) link
http://inthesetimes.com/images/BreitbartAltRight.jpg
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 03:50 (seven years ago) link
i found that image on in these times but apparently it comes from breitbart. they've been basically "at war" with the GOP for a while so people shouldn't have been surprised at trump's actions today.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:01 (seven years ago) link
Sry punksishippies masculinity is poison and needs to be demolished.
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:05 (seven years ago) link
The Intellectuals These, according to Breitbart, are what separates the alt-right “above all else” from “from old-school racist skinheads (to whom they are often idiotically compared)”: They “are a much smarter group of people … They’re dangerously bright.”First noted among these geniuses is Richard Spencer, whose AlternativeRight.com website is described as hosting “an eclectic mix of renegades who objected to the established political consensus in some form or another.” The hategroup-tracking Southern Poverty Law Center describes him as “one of the country’s most successful young white nationalist leaders,” who’s prone to saying things like, “Our dream is a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans.” He rejects the word “racist” because it’s “pejorative,” but “the notion that these people can be equal is not a scientific way of looking at it.”
First noted among these geniuses is Richard Spencer, whose AlternativeRight.com website is described as hosting “an eclectic mix of renegades who objected to the established political consensus in some form or another.” The hategroup-tracking Southern Poverty Law Center describes him as “one of the country’s most successful young white nationalist leaders,” who’s prone to saying things like, “Our dream is a new society, an ethno-state that would be a gathering point for all Europeans.” He rejects the word “racist” because it’s “pejorative,” but “the notion that these people can be equal is not a scientific way of looking at it.”
holy shit
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:11 (seven years ago) link
yup, old image--the republicans were looking for a chance to disavow Trump and the pussygrab tape was as good of an excuse as any.
Forgot to add this to earlier ramblings:The long and short of it is: the majority of them are just white guys who, in the absence of any socially acceptable way to do the normal teenage thing and dip their toes into self-empowerment (cuz they’re ~fucking white males~ obvs), have latched onto the first one to gain a little bit of traction. I mean it's so fucking inevitable, it blows my mind anyone is surprised. Like most people who play around with edgy ideas early in life, the bulk of them will retain anything healthy they get out of it, discard the rest, grow up and come out more mature (and the small percentage that doesn't will turn into the male equivalent of cat ladies). They'll grow up, maybe less left-leaning than some of you would like, but oh well, the pendulum is swinging back.
― punksishippies, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:13 (seven years ago) link
no one should be allowed on the internet until the age of 21
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:17 (seven years ago) link
like, it's bad that these maladjusted adolescents, experiencing romantic frustrations for the first time etc, can so easily get swept up in the redpill world. there has always been misogyny around -- it's always been a thing teen white males would sometimes indulge in, as a phase -- but this ideological misogyny is like, weaponized and it scares me. i'm scared of a lot of things though.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:20 (seven years ago) link
(cuz they’re ~fucking white males~ obvs)
Are you posting from the dystopian feminazi future? What's the coffee like?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 04:23 (seven years ago) link
didn't realise punksishippies is tyler durden, it makes a lot more sense now
― doo-doo diplomacy (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 08:25 (seven years ago) link
just white guys who, in the absence of any socially acceptable way to do the normal teenage thing and dip their toes into self-empowerment (cuz they’re ~fucking white males~ obvs),
I don't get it, what is it about being a white male that means they can't do the 'normal teenage thing'? Like they can't take drugs because of fussy parents or something?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:01 (seven years ago) link
I am not going to claim any understanding of how to operate in the contemporary world.
But the privileged straight white males in my social circle? Myself included? We got WAY more action by performing SNAGness (wearing flowery shirts, reading Sylvia Plath, listening to the Smiths, giving backrubs) than we would have through machismo.
Is that route no longer open to young men? Or have they considered and rejected it?
― go get your winebox (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:06 (seven years ago) link
Hey, just a heads up. Punksishippies has in a few short months defended Trump from being a racist, along with defences of Varg Vikernes and now Milo, and has complained that nazi music is too difficult to buy. I don't think anyone needs to take him particularly seriously.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 11:21 (seven years ago) link
Says someone I assumed was 16.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 12:30 (seven years ago) link
hey punkishippies what's your take on the whole #cancelbella situation
― goole, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:30 (seven years ago) link
this seems like a valuable moment to interview / chat w/ someone who is clearly sympathetic to the movement if not a member themselves it would suck if ilx did its whole burn the witch thing esp since the poster is being quite polite and laying out their perspective
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:37 (seven years ago) link
but yes i'd also like to hear his take on #cancelbella
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:38 (seven years ago) link
yes you guys are carrying out important anthropology right now
― ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
let's not make fun of the guy who blames the alt-right on contemporary society not allowing white males to live!
― ælərdaɪs (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:47 (seven years ago) link
u can do what you want but he's being polite so why not just ask him questions + not be rude. we all know that alt-right + sympathizers are probably drek of the earth no one needs to convince anyone of that here and he's not a beloved poster so you don't need to convince him to think correctly. just enjoy the ride.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:49 (seven years ago) link
i'd like to know if all alt-right true believers look like nerds in fedoras irl (like that in-and-out pic suggests) bc that seems like a pretty depressing self-clowning version of masculinity and doesn't have any of the tropes of masculinity you'd think they'd want to revive like athleticism or manual labor or casanovaness etc. it's like they've reinvented the male and he's a 14yo pimply gamer who looks at porn on 4chan.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:51 (seven years ago) link
otm, both posts
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy
be my guest, but personally i don't feel like alt-righters have exactly been shrinking violets when it comes to expressing themselves. god knows i've tried in the past but i just don't have a lot of skill in talking to ascians.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
I don't get why some of these guys are so down on exhibitionist Twitch (a game playing streaming service where you see the player on camera) girls when the guys are so into fanservice in animation, comics and games? Is it the whole "fake geek girl" thing they had with cosplayers?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
doesn't have any of the tropes of masculinity you'd think they'd want to revive like athleticism or manual labor or casanovaness etc.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:51
That would require quite a bit more effort.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
i didn't know they were. that's weird. here's another alt-right trope i don't get - when they complain that SJW's are ruining television + video games. television and video games are afaict the best they've ever been in my lifetime so how can anyone claim w/ a straight face that they're being ruined? like even if your own metric was ideological and not gameplay related there are so many indie games atm that there are probably more alt-right friendly games than ever before in history. xp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:02 (seven years ago) link
same reason as a section of "music fans" seem to get more worked up about the existence of stuff they don't like than stuff they do?
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:04 (seven years ago) link
except unlike most libs he's not a hypocrite and takes it to its logical conclusion
They'll use each other while it's convenient but one of these days they'll see each other for what they really are, bitter enemies.
― punksishippies, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 03:55
I think you might be right about that last part. I could see Milo regretting all his bigging up the alt-right. But I don't think he's that liberal. He's said that he wants gays to stay outsiders (just not to the extent of the middle east). I think he's dishonest so it wouldn't surprise me if he's been a hypocrite. He completely changed his tune on gamers and deleted previous tweets when he realised he could use gamergate.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:20 (seven years ago) link
i didn't know they were. that's weird. here's another alt-right trope i don't get - when they complain that SJW's are ruining television + video games. ― Mordy, Wednesday, October 12, 2016 12:02 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
maybe it's because they got older and video games aren't as fun for them anymore and they want to continue being man children
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:30 (seven years ago) link
I thought this run down of some of Yiannopoulos' pre-gamergate exploits was interesting
https://maxdunbar.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/milo-yiannopoulous-and-the-kernel/
― soref, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:41 (seven years ago) link
television and video games are afaict the best they've ever been in my lifetime so how can anyone claim w/ a straight face that they're being ruined?
Because GIRLS are playing them too now. Duh.
"Thanks for ruining shell art!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlGqN3AKOsA
― go get your winebox (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 17:44 (seven years ago) link
I think it's a good thing for games to be for everyone but when people were complaining about Wii and Nintendo DS ruining everything, there was a small part of me saying "PlayStation made games lamestream, if you're not going to play King Of Fighters, Metal Slug, Secret Of Mana and Castlevania with us you can get the fuck out. Take Call Of Duty, Tombraider, Grand Theft Auto and sports series games and shove them up your ass when you're leaving". But the whole core vs mainstream/casual arguments never really held up to scrutiny.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:34 (seven years ago) link
lmao @ this turning into a video game thread, of course
― goole, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:36 (seven years ago) link
I always picture a lot of alt-right guys as a bit jocky. Have the jocks and right wing geeks joined forces?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
watched a prescient daria ep last night where jane was dating a "retro" guy who dressed in meticulously accurate '40s wear (inc fedora) and had a bunch of friends who did the same, and daria didn't like the guy because he never shut up about how much more elegant and classy the postwar era was than the filthy and debased present (jane pretended not to like sick sad world for him -- v sad), and when on a double date (retro guy driving) daria finally dropped the "what about segregation" bomb the guy blew up about how she should just wait in the car for "the p.c. police" and went out to do the lindy hop w his weird closet white nationalist 4chan friends, and daria said to her date "i wish the p.c. police WERE here. i bet THEY'D give us a ride." quality lol imo
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
xp feel like it's specifically not jocks who are probably right-wing in more conventional ways i'm guessing? it seems more like an internet phenomenon
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link
are jocks even a thing any more?
I'm not American but is "jock" only an insult? Can a really nice guy be described as one?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:45 (seven years ago) link
I don't know about jocks, but meatheads are still a thing.
― rap is dad (it's a boy!), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:46 (seven years ago) link
jock is a real high school kinda thing. i think people use "jock" as a way to describe athlete asshole dudes from high school or maybe college. most of them, politically, seem relatively quaint and innocent in their conservatism. based on my rural IL upbringing, at least. the alt-right is a lot different. i don't think jocks are nearly as stunted emotionally as a lot of the alt-right dudes.
― nomar, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:47 (seven years ago) link
w/ the caveat that my entire knowledge of american high schools comes from television + film my impression is that jocks are a caste of athletic male students, particularly in team sports, who have high class status and are v popular. i'm guessing like there are ranks there and being QB is better than being an OL. i think jocks can be nice or jerks.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
i love high school movies but they all seem to be taking place on an entirely different planet. v much liked my handful of football-team friends in high school and they did not seem to enjoy any awesome status. girls maybe tended to prefer them to my computer lab friends but this seemed neither mysterious nor unjust. subsequent political developments have not complicated this view.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
the internet proved nerds are worse than jocks when given a chance
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
^^^^^
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 18:57 (seven years ago) link
Yes and, a key 80s nerd fantasy was that in later life, you would be like a jillionaire running a company or whatever, and you'd have the power to, like, fire the dumb jocks who bullied you.
And you'd finally get the cheerleader.
― go get your winebox (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:00 (seven years ago) link
Looked up "jock" for definition and gay porn and gay dating sites was the main result. Also insulting definitions of the stereotype but I've definitely heard people being called a "nice jock". Like Kevin in Daria I guess.
I despise geek/nerd culture but I really don't think there is a trend of them being nasty in the majority. Most of them are okay.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
i dunno man i'm pretty sure the majority of super-villains are nerds so
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:06 (seven years ago) link
I was going to say something about how teen movie stereotypes can't be mapped onto real-world politics but then realised that the handful of male Trump supporters on my FB friends list are all hyper-athletic gym-dwellers. (One went to uni in the US to play hockey.) So hm.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:27 (seven years ago) link
jock in my neck of the woods meant someone athletic who is not too bright, overly stereotypically masculine, rough/aggressive/boorish/loutish, insensitive, and loud. they definitely existed in my schools. there were always one or two who were the more sensible ones, though
getting your info from high school movies is probably not the best idea, especially if they're hollywood movies. they are caricatures of real people and cliques appear much more divided. characters are one-sided, simplistic and extremist for the most part, because people want to be entertained and love a "good story"
i rarely if ever saw jocks bullying nerds at my schools. nerds were getting picked on by morons who were not jocks. the jock mantra was "pick on someone your own size." the only thing i remember clearly is once a white dude, who was bigger than average but not athletic/jock big, and who had mostly popular jock friends (a few of them dressed like cowboys) pushed a black-looking mexican music nerd, who had a smaller frame, out of his way and told him he would tie him up to the back of his truck and take him for a spin. but white dude carried a cowboy complex and dressed as one a lot. clearly motivated by white cowboy's racism more than anything else, though. he didn't bother the real nerds
also nerds may do bad things on the internet, but it's because it's easier and seemingly more "anonymous." in real life, nerds do bad things by passively resisting any action and just smirking, but i've never seen them physically do something harmful. i'm talking math and science nerds here, though, not weirdo semi-antisocial ilx pop culture nerds
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:28 (seven years ago) link
Then, I might only know that these guys are Trump supporters because they post about it loudly and aggressively. I could have quieter non-jock Trump-loving FB friends. (Actually, I'm pretty sure one guy is, who was a geek in middle school and teaches English in Taiwan.)
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:33 (seven years ago) link
What are we calling geeks who play loads of sport btw
― imago, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
depends what you're calling a geek. someone who is obsessed with a particular thing/hobbie?
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:36 (seven years ago) link
― imago
british
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
(Actually, I'm pretty sure one guy is, who was a geek in middle school and teaches English in Taiwan.)― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 12, 2016 2:33 PM (five seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I taught abroad and this is definitely an archetype of a certain group of expats
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:38 (seven years ago) link
i rarely if ever saw jocks bullying nerds at my schools. nerds were getting picked on by morons who were not jocks.
Bears reposting
― still lists its address as the recently razed home of “Morris” the (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:43 (seven years ago) link
academic nerds who play loads of sport go to stanford, iirc
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:45 (seven years ago) link
geeks (in the obsessive hobbyist sense) who play loads of sport end up on ultimate frisbee teams
never
― imago, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
they just sound like sport nerds to me. i know a couple people who geek out over sports who are harmless and have suppressed their inner jock inclinations, because they can't get away with it in the real world. but they tend to be passive aggressive to non-jocks
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 19:58 (seven years ago) link
'sport nerds' is an unfamiliar concept to me
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:02 (seven years ago) link
To me too. The only thing that brings to mind is maybe people who don't actually play but obsessively study hockey statistics. Not sure anyone calls them "sports nerds' though.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:04 (seven years ago) link
http://www.theonion.com/article/walking-sports-database-scorns-walking-sci-fi-data-1442
― go get your winebox (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:09 (seven years ago) link
that's true
i guess what i'm getting at is people who play lots of sports as a hobby are probably not good at anything so they just like the idea of sport and talking about it on a theoretical level, while pretending that they know about it from practising it, but surely if you play lots of sports, you probably haven't had time to study a single one deeply enough
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:15 (seven years ago) link
I can never stay awake through sports OR most sci-fi. I am obv a failure at relating to my fellow man.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:25 (seven years ago) link
there's totally sports nerds in high school, like dudes who ended up as stat keeper or managers etc, also there's literally a whole industry of analytics built around sports nerds
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:39 (seven years ago) link
A friend posted this the other day, it was put up at a university in my home town where he works:http://i.imgur.com/kFcxtEo.jpg
1. This is at a heavily engineering school in the middle of nowhere in the midwest.
2. It's like 3:1 male to female
3. If you ignore the ~15% who are international students (primarily from China and India), the student body is probably 95% white. There's not really any significant non-white population for at least 4 hours in any direction.
4. The undergrad population is super heavy with LARPer / gamer / neckbeard / fedora types. The kind of place where is almost always at least one guy on campus who goes about his daily business in a Gandalf cloak and staff
5. A good number of the rest are libertarian good old boys who love guns and trucks and such.
6. The logo really looks like a KKK hood
7. The funniest(?) part is that the area is chock-full of descendants of Finnish immigrants and I have never been anywhere with as much (non-racist) pride in people's European heritage. There are stores full of Finnish pride related shirts and hats and bumper stickers and "parking for Finns only" signs and shit like that.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:45 (seven years ago) link
I never really thought of most sports as macho. There's boxing, American football, soccer and maybe basketball but most of the rest don't seem that way to me.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:50 (seven years ago) link
xp sure, but the way it was being used here made me think it was referring to some wider & more archetypal band than just 'dude who reads sabermetrics blogs and gets way too invested in the office fantasy football league'
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link
Hockey dudes can be p damn macho.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 20:59 (seven years ago) link
north american hockey is way more aggressive and faster
european hockey is pretty tame, so i can see the confusion
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:14 (seven years ago) link
can see why rugby wouldn't make the macho sports list over football
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link
I always forget rugby exists, even though people at my school did it.
With all the exposure we have to Japanese culture, it's weird sumo wrestling is never mentioned.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:28 (seven years ago) link
joygoat: MTU?
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:44 (seven years ago) link
yes indeed
― joygoat, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 21:55 (seven years ago) link
How many members of the alt right describe themselves as opposed to the "enlightenment"
― Treeship, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 22:12 (seven years ago) link
I wonder if there's anything to the idea that some geeks watch genre movies (fantasy and sci-fi in the main) / tv/games/comics and get so wrapped up in them that, aside from dressing up as the characters, or doing other traditional geek culture things, they end up thinking the simplified ethics and/or philosophy in these tv shows and movies are substantial, and would/should work in real life? And if this has anything to do with this alt-right movement?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 22:35 (seven years ago) link
A plump, curly-haired woman took a step out from the others. Her round face was red with anger as she screamed. "Stop the hate! No war! Stop the hate! No war!"
"Move or die!" Richard yelled as he picked up speed.
The red-faced woman shook her fleshy fist at Richard and his men, leading an angry chant. "Murderers! Murderers! Murderers!"
On his way past her, gritting his teeth as he screamed with the fury of the attack begun, Richard took a powerful swing, lopping off the woman's head and upraised arm. Strings of blood and gore splashed across the faces behind her even as some still chanted their empty words. The head and loose arm tumbled through the crowd. A man mad the mistake of reaching for Richard's weapon, and took the full weight of a charging thrust.
Men behind Richard hit the line of evil's guardians with unrestrained violence. People armed only with their hatred for moral clarity fell bloodied, terribly injured, and dead.
― difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
^ Terry Goodkind right? Even where the author isn't a Randian, that style is pretty common - mooks being mown down by heroes, etc. Meanwhile the 'proper', 'serious' films and books are boring because they don't have swordfights and spaceships. So the hypothetical geek goes looking for more of the same sugar rush, they end up living on a diet of it, it ends up informing their perceptions of real life, idk? Especially if they don't see any violence in real life to get a reality check.
+ being part of a small core of 'fans' might lead naturally to liking the idea of a small elite who know what's up versus the blinkered masses?
The problem with all this is that last night I watched and enjoyed Predator and Predator 2 and as usual it's the old 'when I enjoy this stuff I know I'm indulging in silly sadistic jouissance but when they watch it ...'
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:35
I don't know if it's much different than regular action, war and cowboy films and games. Barring Kaiju and disaster films I've seen more superhero stories than anything that show cities being wrecked as if it's nothing.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:02 (seven years ago) link
True, although does it matter that action, war and cowboy movies don't have quite the same 'fan club' in-group thing going on that seems to come with sci-fi and fantasy? They strike me as more 'standard issue', common cultural touchstones I guess. No less wacky and prone to shoving right-wing ideas in your face, but they'll do it in a significantly different way?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:14 (seven years ago) link
(The other problem with all this is just how widespread the love for sci fi and games and all the rest of it really is, compared to how narrow it's traditionally assumed to be. That really does seem like a relic now considering the viewer figures for GoT and various genre blockbusters? Just because there's a self-identified geek culture which views itself as a weird minority doesn't mean it actually is.)
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:17 (seven years ago) link
There are a lot of arguments that superheroes are more of a troubling construct and a lot of fantasy and science fiction can have similarly fascistic or entitled worldviews while war and cowboys are based on real situations, but you can probably present them just as badly. There's vigilante films which can be pretty nasty. I heard the newest Mel Gibson film called "dadsploitation", the best genre name I've heard in years.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:28 (seven years ago) link
Cowboy stories do seem more politically self aware for decades though.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
The kind of place where is almost always at least one guy on campus who goes about his daily business in a Gandalf cloak and staff
Going to go out on a limb and say it's not this guy. In fact, I'm bemused by eg Gamergate because these people are just not very good geeks - the usual morals of geek media is co-operation, working together, tolerance - the idea that it's all power fantasies is weird and/or out of date.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 October 2016 06:28 (seven years ago) link
i think RAG is right that these "gamers" aren't real gamers. they're AAA gamers who think they're gamers. real gamers love all the recent indie stuff - even if a particular game isn't their bag no real gamer would complain that games are ruined atm.
― Mordy, Thursday, 13 October 2016 06:31 (seven years ago) link
aren't there like 5 threads about this already? i feel like this isn't a "real thread" about the "real alt-right"
― legitimate concerns about cucks (sarahell), Thursday, 13 October 2016 06:37 (seven years ago) link
no you're right no more gaming talk from me only neo-nazi meme talk from now on
― Mordy, Thursday, 13 October 2016 06:38 (seven years ago) link
oh come on their position is that they're the _only_ real gamers and everybody else are "filthy casuals".
and tbh i think kickstarter is doing some pretty serious damage to games right now
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 09:51 (seven years ago) link
I know this is getting off-topic but I'd like to hear about why kickstarter is damaging.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 09:57 (seven years ago) link
And I think some gamergaters are weeaboos and pretty hardcore into games.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 09:59 (seven years ago) link
pretty easy to make an argument that the bulk of indie games aren't serious/real games
not making that argument, but it's makeable
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:00 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour
used to be you would make a game and then sell it. now you come up with a pitch and then you sell that, and you don't bother to actually finish making the game. i know most players don't get past the first couple hours of a game anyway, but even if i don't finish a game (i usually don't) i like to know that the game in question at least is finishable (if it's that kind of game).
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:45 (seven years ago) link
I kinda like that this mixture of wild over-ambition, hucksterism and genuine craft exists but yeah most of it is not gonna be looked back on fondly
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:49 (seven years ago) link
back towards the topic- one of the things that puzzles me about the alt-right is its hostility towards the existence of games they weren't going to play in the first place.
like, when that twin peaks ripoff game came out a couple weeks ago, a lot of people got super mad about it (or a few people got mad about it super loudly, hard to tell these days) because the pc was a black woman. this is ridiculous. is there anybody outside the margin of error who honestly enjoys playing "walking simulators" but simultaneously insists that their player character only ever be a white male?
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:50 (seven years ago) link
I think they may have a "domino effect" concern, that's the nicest construction you could put on it.
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:53 (seven years ago) link
asking for logic from these guys is a fool's errand tbh, but yeah as nv says their fear is basically that any game which isn't about bald white space marines shooting stuff helps the games industry get one step closer to producing nothing but entirely conflict-and-challenge-free games starring disabled black transgender socialists
― doo-doo diplomacy (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:56 (seven years ago) link
gears of war 5: ceasefire
― doo-doo diplomacy (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 October 2016 10:58 (seven years ago) link
Save the Whales III
― go get your winebox (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:12 (seven years ago) link
dude ecco the dolphin ruled and these dweebs need to stfu
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:16 (seven years ago) link
CuckQuest 8: Trigger Happy
― larry appleton, Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:20 (seven years ago) link
Now that I think about it there aren't many video games that star or feature libhomo characters or have libhomo themes.
― larry appleton, Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:21 (seven years ago) link
though I guess "libfag" would probably be the proper alt right term
― larry appleton, Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:23 (seven years ago) link
The entire concept of "real gamers" IS THE PROBLEM DUMMIES
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:30 (seven years ago) link
There's no such thing
true
― doo-doo diplomacy (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:49 (seven years ago) link
real gamers vote in the 90s pc gaming poll
unless they are not into 90s pc games, that is also of course cool
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 11:54 (seven years ago) link
I think kickstarter has done some good things for games. A lot of developers have their heads up their asses and completely ignore the audience that made them big in the first place. A few of these high profile kickstarter games are basically like "capcom and konami won't pay for this but their old fans will"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:12 (seven years ago) link
Re: Spiked et al., O'Neill did write this recent piece critical of the alt right: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/hounding-leslie-jones-anti-pc-gone-mad/
― Freedom, Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:28 (seven years ago) link
kickstarter talk going a bit off topic yeah but i do think video games are relevant here since gamergate was such a major mobilizing moment for these ppl
― ciderpress, Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:30 (seven years ago) link
i don't know i don't think "mighty no. 9" isn't exactly a vindication of this way of thinking.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:34 (seven years ago) link
and even if igavania turns out to be good, is it really a great triumph for kickstarter to provide funding for cookie-cutter sequels-in-all-but-name to formulaic game franchises? (note that i love the igavania games and if his new game is good i will probably buy it and play it.)
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:39 (seven years ago) link
It's something good. It's better that they exist. There probably are far more innovative games but I don't know about them.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 12:58 (seven years ago) link
Kickstarter usually has to tap into an existing audience so most things will be quite familiar.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 13:00 (seven years ago) link
i also think that the kickstarter model has been very misleading to plenty of people who have pledged, and for a lot of us pledging has been a misleading and disappointing experience. we love terraria and pledged to starbound, because we were suckered by the advertising copy and caught up in the mass excitement the kickstarter generated. theoretically this game has been "successful" in that it's delivered more or less what it's promised, but the game isn't very well balanced and, consequently, isn't very much fun to play.
individual gamers just don't have good enough judgment to determine whether a game is worth funding or not, and by collecting the money directly from gamers before making the game the people who run these kickstarters are actually losing out on quality feedback on how to make the game better. i'm not saying that process always works in big gaming companies - one need only look at the barely mitigated disaster that has been the sonic series for most of the last 25 years - but the process isn't, in most cases, producing better games or more innovative games than the AAA industry, and is making many gamers disillusioned and more selective about what gaming risks they're willing to take. i don't see that as a good thing.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Thursday, 13 October 2016 13:12 (seven years ago) link
It's early days still and there's hundreds of them. I'm sure plenty of them are fine but most are very low budget.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 13 October 2016 14:39 (seven years ago) link
Just explained the meaning of cuckservative to some idiot Orthodox Jew on fb who clearly did not get the memo on who alt righters are referring to when they say the country has been sold out. His brother in law texted me to thank me. Not the first person to text me this election season for sonning their moron relatives.
― Mordy, Thursday, 13 October 2016 19:48 (seven years ago) link
i could not imagine how to carry on such a conversation.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 13 October 2016 19:58 (seven years ago) link
Ha, getting email is certainly a validating reaction.
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 13 October 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link
Also, back to an earlier point, Kickstarter isn't the reason for games not being finished; that shit is entirely due to Early Access*
*excepting whatever Star Citizen is now considered.
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 13 October 2016 20:23 (seven years ago) link
is vaporware still a term in use?
― Mordy, Thursday, 13 October 2016 20:25 (seven years ago) link
Not as much, due to the similar -sounding musical genre gaining popularity
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 13 October 2016 20:48 (seven years ago) link
Do you guys read We Hunted the Mammoth? It's where I get my daily alt-right hatefeed tempered with a bit of levity so I don't actually kill myself.
― emil.y, Thursday, 13 October 2016 20:56 (seven years ago) link
My wife reads it faithfully. She loves to keep tabs on what these pieces of shit are up to l. She first told me about the whole red pill thing like 3 years ago.
― still lists its address as the recently razed home of “Morris” the (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 13 October 2016 21:18 (seven years ago) link
That site also spun-off the similarly amusing Tumblr feed Confused Cats Against Feminism
http://confusedcatsagainstfeminism.tumblr.com
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 13 October 2016 22:00 (seven years ago) link
A few of these high profile kickstarter games are basically like "capcom and konami won't pay for this but their old fans will"
Aye but as rushomancy says, Capcom and Konami are right here.
There's definitely a thread in Gamergate of "Hi there X we understand that you are a professional in your job but as a collection of straight white men we are an unparalleled resource of objectivity and we are concerned that you have overlooked this" - X is usually journalists or police or the FBI investigating Anita Sarkeesian's harassment but "games developers who want to make something other than what we want them to" fits as well.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 14 October 2016 01:22 (seven years ago) link
It's tied up with Real Gamers as well - they don't actually exist except as an idea of who games are made for - some people like to identify with them as a cultural force (larger than Hollywood, you know) and then get massively entitled about their assumed power.
Both these points extend pretty smoothly out from GG to the thread's topic, of course.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 14 October 2016 01:52 (seven years ago) link
do you guys get recommended racist crap when watching completely random videos on youtube? like i was watching some videos about old EM pinball machines and all of a sudden youtube is recommending that i watch videos that will "tell me the truth about the jews". is it just that youtube can't handle recommendations based on videos with low view counts or something?
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Friday, 14 October 2016 02:15 (seven years ago) link
it's based on your past views iirc
― esempiu (crüt), Friday, 14 October 2016 03:10 (seven years ago) link
it's a combination of the video you're watching now and your past views- some are based on that particular video and some are from the "recommended for you" pile. so on a given video i'll get recommended twelve klaus schulze videos and a 1978 burger king ad, you know, only one of those things is based on my viewing history. i think this particular recommendation was based on the video.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Friday, 14 October 2016 03:22 (seven years ago) link
i saw the opening sketch of a MDE World Peace episode that was pretty brilliant, it was like half a dozen people cackling in a generic high rise apartment drinking wine, and then this guy trips sam hyde's wife and she falls into a glass table and is lying there totally mangled, and the guy says he didn't trip her and they replay the shot and the opacity is turned way down. it was this really disturbing thing on gaslighting and a certain type of white ppl in their 30s dinner party(??) i was totally bowled over by it.
then the next sketch is the fucking most unfunny tim and eric weirdo bullshit ripoff of sam hyde drinking milk in a gym and being flamboyant and obnoxious. i really hate how widespread tim and eric's influence is, their aesthetic is lingering everywhere and it's so stale, pretty soon NO ONE is going to remember what the fuck "public access television" was.
― flappy bird, Friday, 14 October 2016 03:48 (seven years ago) link
The new shits ripping on YouTube aesthetic
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, 14 October 2016 04:42 (seven years ago) link
What's this thread ostensibly about again
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, 14 October 2016 04:43 (seven years ago) link
what is youtube aesthetic? vaporwave?
― flappy bird, Friday, 14 October 2016 04:52 (seven years ago) link
There's probably gonna be ASMR roleplay on prime time within two years
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Friday, 14 October 2016 04:53 (seven years ago) link
valuable new poster
― legitimate concerns about ducks (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 October 2016 09:02 (seven years ago) link
Oh joy; Heat St had an exchange/convo between Vix Day and Louise Mensch about Conservative feminism back in May, but I'm not linking to it here
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Friday, 14 October 2016 17:22 (seven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 14 October 2016 02:22
Capcom and Konami are correct in not making these games? Plenty of Japanese developers would like to make them and a substantial amount of gamers want them (very very far from being just white guys or gamergate types) but sometimes they're just risky enough and the resources are harder to find* and the Japanese business is probably hurting right now. I'm not very in the know about their fortunes right now so I don't know what reasonable expectations would be.
Konami is slowly moving away from games and willing to cancel what might have been a hit so maybe they don't need games anymore. Lots of gamers are overly entitled shits** but fan feedback and wishlisting is an important part of how games are made. I think it's better that franchises end and people just make similar games elsewhere (hopefully with more control). Lots of gamers have been waiting for some sort of successor in the Final Fight/Streets Of Rage style and I'm surprised it's never really happened apart from Godhand (which is similar) and a bunch of things that never worked that well. There's dozens of genres that could be revitalized, lots of people who want to make them and play them and keeping up the demand might help them get made. * The Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics guy had a kickstarter and most of the team is American if I recall correctly. I think a lot of fans know now that pretty good 2d graphics, never mind state of the art 2d graphics are extremely expensive and therefore a big risk. Vanillaware is one of the few still plugging away at this and they don't release many games.
** I bet most of the fuckers who kept saying Iga ruined Castlevania are grateful in retrospect how long he kept it going and they probably funded Bloodstained too.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 14 October 2016 18:10 (seven years ago) link
why can't we all just play katamari damacy and be happy
― flappy bird, Friday, 14 October 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
Ever since reading David Brin's Star Wars vs. Star Trek analysis I've been suspicious of anyone identifying as Jedi, cosplaying as a stormtrooper, and so on.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 16 October 2016 21:19 (seven years ago) link
at some point i became the sort of person who mistakenly refers to "star wars" as "star trek" and vice versa. i know the difference, i just can't keep the words straight in my head. you know, it's star... something.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Sunday, 16 October 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/14/nazi-facebook-group-alt-right-execution-jews-black-people-colorado-students-expelled
― GUNSHOW POOPHOLE (Phil D.), Sunday, 16 October 2016 22:45 (seven years ago) link
Of course, then there's this piece of work:
http://furredreichblog.com/2016/08/25/put-your-tolerance-cap-on-furry-fandom-the-alt-right-is-here-to-stay/
"Put Your ‘Tolerance’ Cap on, Furry Fandom. The Alt-Right Is Here To Stay"
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Monday, 17 October 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
Banger's youtube channel, LOCK HORNS: Sexism in Metal Panel Discussion379 thumbs up, 1k thumbs down
I remember people saying metalgate never taken off because metalheads generally didn't give a toss but I wonder if anything has changed.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 17 October 2016 15:27 (seven years ago) link
xp this is quite something and i can't imagine how you found it
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Monday, 17 October 2016 15:43 (seven years ago) link
From here:
http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2016/10/16/the-furred-reich/
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/514sKZZ6u5L.jpg
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Monday, 17 October 2016 15:46 (seven years ago) link
Really missing out on literalizing "Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS" but that's none of my business.
― GUNSHOW POOPHOLE (Phil D.), Monday, 17 October 2016 15:48 (seven years ago) link
This is good, about the defection of the son of the founder of Stormfront to the other side - Iggy & The Stooges - https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/the-white-flight-of-derek-black/2016/10/15/ed5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 17 October 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
Iggy & The Stooges have nothing to do with the alt-right, I pasted two things by accident
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 17 October 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
AFAIK
@Elvis Telecom - yeah, adult Star Wars fandom is probably a key example? The lure of being a manchild that still just thinks things are either boring or awesoooooome + imagery straight from Triumph of the Will + that universe has literal good and bad guys predetermined by supernatural forces or biology = strong possibility of some of these guys getting a bit confused about politics and ending up in some weird places politically
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 17 October 2016 23:46 (seven years ago) link
xp crazy, huh. i wouldn't have believed that story as fiction!
― Nhex, Monday, 17 October 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link
― Never changed username before (cardamon)
i think i saw those movies once, and i don't remember any of the stuff you're talking about. the movie i saw was about some loser farm kid and a space hermit teaming up with a smuggler to fight space nazis. there were goofy supernatural forces but they didn't seem to actually determine anything, some people chose to be good and some people chose to be evil.
― fat fingered algorithm (rushomancy), Monday, 17 October 2016 23:58 (seven years ago) link
Yeah it's probably not that strong a case, and whatever might be in the movie, it's obvs a bit of a giant leap from that to being an alt-right white nationalist
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 18 October 2016 00:03 (seven years ago) link
In a novel bit related to this, the Chapo Trap House has on Matthew Karp, author of The Vast Southern Empire: Slaveholders at the Helm of American Foreign Policy.
They have good fun digging into the weird-ass Antebellum racial science and proto-eugenic justifications of a lot of Confederate culture, and how a lot of travels down and rings thru the online white supremacist shit today, "race realism" and all.
https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-50-akp-50th-episode-ergenekon-extravaganza-101716
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 16:48 (seven years ago) link
remember that in the old days of usenet "alt" used to stand for "anarchists, lunatics, and terrorists"
― maura, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
Is the trans woman Blaire White considered a part of this?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 19:48 (seven years ago) link
alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die
― Mordy, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 19:51 (seven years ago) link
My next-door neighbour is a full-on alt-right person - he blogs, podcasts and endlessly links on social media to Brietbart, Takimag and so on, calls people "cucks" and start sentences like: "By now it should be abundantly clear to everyone except the self-deluded...".
The thing is that he is an English guy who moved to Canada about 6 years ago. His two best pals are also British and hold similar views (but express them less forcefully). They all have a background in slam poetry or stand-up and seem to have moved to this because you get to rant in public without having to think up jokes. Never lived in the USA and rarely even visited as far as I can tell. Yet completely preoccupied with US politics. Never even mentions Canadian politics except to maybe toss a few insults at Trudeau about being too femme. His hero is English alt-right wanker Paul Joseph Watson.
There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement? They have no stake in it, are uninvolved with the real politics in the place they live or come from. I wonder if it's a continuation of the obsession that a lot of Brits have with the US. Except instead of cowboys and Chuck Berry it's cucks and Alex Jones.
Not sure where I'm going with this other than to say that in the three years I've known him, his activities seem almost entirely non-political and more about having a way of publicly expressing a huge bitter chip on his shoulder. Mocking his (almost imaginary) enemies or just by apparently memorizing huge chunks of alt-right rhetoric which he'll spout in what feels like a public performance rather than as part of a conversation. As I said - it's almost like stand-up comedy without any jokes.
― everything, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 20:20 (seven years ago) link
Milo is hilarious but a real one trick pony, i'm bored of him now
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 20:22 (seven years ago) link
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.food.waffle-house
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 20:29 (seven years ago) link
it's not like English expats to be right wing
― nom de grrrrr (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 21:27 (seven years ago) link
Oh yeah, I had forgotten that Google bought Deja/Deja News
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 21:33 (seven years ago) link
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 11:48 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This was a really good episode.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement?
There are at least a few Americans participating in this Russia-centric political movement.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
"There seems to be quit a few if these non-Americans participating in this US-centric political movement? They have no stake in it, are uninvolved with the real politics in the place they live or come from. I wonder if it's a continuation of the obsession that a lot of Brits have with the US. Except instead of cowboys and Chuck Berry it's cucks and Alex Jones."
based on my brief, harrowing forays into The _Donald over at reddit, there does some to be a lot of non-Americans participating (at least based on the lil flag icons they have next to their usernames). doesn't make any sense to me.
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
I know someone a bit like that but instead it's the more old fashioned Christian Republican stuff he gets from watching UK Christian channels, which overwhelmingly shows American content, with lots of American political news.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 23:05 (seven years ago) link
Back in February we had a provincial by-election in our riding and my alt-right neighbour was posting a whole bunch of Donald Trump stuff. I asked him why he is posting about a guy who was not even the nominee yet, for foreign election which is 10 months away and he replies "because it's literally the only thing happening in politics right now". I'm like "dude, there's an election in OUR OWN riding TODAY! Why don't you do something about that?" His reply? "Distractions, just distractions. This is the real story".
― everything, Thursday, 20 October 2016 00:05 (seven years ago) link
They all have a background in slam poetry
wow i didn't know BIG HOOS was several British-Canadian Trump supporters
― esempiu (crüt), Thursday, 20 October 2016 00:09 (seven years ago) link
More Scott Adams/Dilbert adjusting:
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexandraerin/status/788868007560880128
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Thursday, 20 October 2016 00:12 (seven years ago) link
ive noticed the weird thing of brits and canadians being obsessed with alt-right and american right-wing stuff while being disinterested in their local political news. like for a few years now you see idiots on social media or comment threads on the guardian or whatever calling people "liberals" pejoratively despite being from surrey, criticizing black lives matter though they live in rural saskatchewan, tweeting incessantly about Trump though their twitter profile says something like "proud canadian, kelowna b.c.".
otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.
― *-* (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 20 October 2016 02:56 (seven years ago) link
I never really understood Canadians who take more of an interest in US politics and can barely name their MP (or explain what an MP is). I should say "until now" because I've been way more engrossed in the US primaries and election than in what's currently happening in Canadian politics. I give myself something of a pass because i) I'm living in the US and ii) this American election has been pretty, um, exceptional.
Worst is when Canadians talk about their own politics as if we have a Presidential/Congressional system, e.g. I've heard someone talk about 'voting straight-ticket'.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Thursday, 20 October 2016 03:32 (seven years ago) link
lol clemenza to thread
― sleeve, Thursday, 20 October 2016 04:27 (seven years ago) link
it's weird when Europeans get heatedly involved and self-righteous about US politics, luckily i can't think of any examples on ILX
― nom de grrrrr (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 20 October 2016 06:04 (seven years ago) link
Makes sense in the way that they're probably also rooting for their local version of Trump (I can vouch for the Marine Le Pen fans in France being big Trump fans), and a Trump victory would validate their cause and boost their base.
― cookware regression (Dinsdale), Thursday, 20 October 2016 08:24 (seven years ago) link
UK media is saturated with US news and culture, huge amounts of discourse is borrowed from the US (who ofc encourage it) so its hardly surprising that ppl focus on it, the whole arena of modern political coverage and discourse is v strongly american
― Master Ballsmith (ogmor), Thursday, 20 October 2016 09:50 (seven years ago) link
― *-* (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 20 October 2016 03:56
While it is silly for some non-Americans to see everything through the lens of American politics, and people are probably ignoring a lot of important things that directly concern them, I don't think it's that bad to be more interested in what's going on in America right now. It's easier to find all this news and discussion too. Perhaps some people with no heritage from Philippines are mostly posting about there right now?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 20 October 2016 10:39 (seven years ago) link
I agree that citizens of the Empire should take some interest in what's happening in Rome but still
― nom de grrrrr (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 20 October 2016 10:52 (seven years ago) link
the bias is absurd but it's a huge systemic issue & that's what facilitates the particular eccentricities of individuals
― ogmor, Thursday, 20 October 2016 11:26 (seven years ago) link
― nom de grrrrr (Noodle Vague), donderdag 20 oktober 2016 8:04 (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
løl
I think a lot of non-Americans here follow the election very closely because there's enough reason to believe the presidential race is a forebearer of things to come over here. Populists are on the rise all over Europe and most of them embrace not just Trump, but his ways, too. He's breaking ground with a next level fact-free approach, and manages to get away with murder almost. Populist leaders here are full of admiration and you can bet on it they will copy many of his ways.That is mostly why I am invested in the US-race this time around. Not so much because it's about "the new leader of the free world" (sad lol) but because with Brexit, Wilders, the new extreme right on the rise in Europe, Trump and his avant-politics fits in perfectly. And I've no doubt his idiotic ways will be copy-pasted on this side of the ocean very quickly.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 20 October 2016 11:50 (seven years ago) link
Populists are on the rise all over Europe
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 20 October 2016 12:50
Isn't it bigger than that? I've heard that this sort of populism and anti-immigration is gaining momentum in Asia. Maybe an international thing?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 20 October 2016 13:23 (seven years ago) link
I've heard that this sort of populism and anti-immigration is gaining momentum in Asia.
It's probably inappropriate for me to overgeneralize while sitting in the first world. But I think I can tentatively say this: Many Asian nations have less-than-exemplary records on racial integration, ethnic inclusiveness, and social justice.
I would not hold up the way that Dubai (for example) treats foreign workers as a model. Japan, while a very dynamic economy and vibrant society, is not exactly an ethnic melting pot. This is a bit of a can of worms though.
― wingless yurp (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 20 October 2016 13:35 (seven years ago) link
Politically, a lot of right wing and what i'd loosely describe as 'technocratic nationalist' governments have wanted to follow the path of Singapore and Taiwan - central planning and one-party dominance aligned with free market principles.
There's also an underlying fear of Chinese dominance on the UK / US right - the idea that Europe can never compete with China as China refuses to 'play by the normal rules'. Part of Trump's appeal is that idea that he can scam / deregulate his way to parity imo.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Thursday, 20 October 2016 13:53 (seven years ago) link
The socialist in me wants to believe the rising populism is a backlash against austerity, but I know that's only partially true. Especially since the US didn't engage in the same level of austerity as Europe (although certain individual states did, e.g. Kansas).
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, 20 October 2016 14:02 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour, donderdag 20 oktober 2016 15:23 (forty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Probably, but I was only speaking from what I actually know to be the case.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 20 October 2016 14:07 (seven years ago) link
I'm from the UK, but have spent most of the last 15 years living abroad, before moving back at the start of 2016 with an immigrant wife and two mixed-race children. Right now I find it hard to find any angle on UK politics which isn't a variation on despair. I sometimes try to post things on social media about how immigrants are a good thing and how we should be generally much kinder to the disadvantaged, but there's no point - half the people I know agree with me, but have nothing further to say, the other half will say nothing - maybe they agree, maybe they don't, but either way they are not going to be persuaded. With US politics, at least plenty of people are ready to engage with stuff - sometimes in an appalling way, yes, but at least there is an argument to be had instead of this fucking tutting and mumbling about "electability" or "genuine concerns".
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Thursday, 20 October 2016 21:23 (seven years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/31/trolls-for-trump
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 17:08 (seven years ago) link
late to the canadians following us politics more than their own country's discussion but...
surrey, criticizing black lives matter though they live in rural saskatchewan, tweeting incessantly about Trump though their twitter profile says something like "proud canadian, kelowna b.c.".otoh ive noticed the inverse on my facebook feed. canadian and scottish left-wing people who, by their posting habits, seem way more interested in american racism and police brutality, BLM, the presidential election, etc. than they are about brexit, idle no more, truth and reconciliation, the police brutality and racism in their own countries. i have one canadian facebook friend who is indigenous and, naturally, concerned with indigenous issues in canada, yet her facebook links are probably 90% about american racism against black people and 10% indigenous issues.― *-* (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:56 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― *-* (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 7:56 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this isn't too far from the truth though. step outside the lower mainland and go to abby (see racist incident recently), kelowna, or anywhere rural or in the interior, and you'll see far more conservative canadians, real rednecks
your facebook feed is just the people you attract and befriend based on your own opinions and worldview
most of my friends are leftists to centrists. one was a closet conservative until i pressured him into talking about (canadian) politics, because he would always stay quiet or didn't talk about it. he was born and raised in west van. but his core circle of friends votes ndp or liberal
i've met canadians that believe the only way to real change in canada is if the us changes, because canada always follows whatever the states says. i don't agree with that, but there are some key issues that canada will just follow the us's lead on, but that's why chretien was so popular
Worst is when Canadians talk about their own politics as if we have a Presidential/Congressional system, e.g. I've heard someone talk about 'voting straight-ticket'.― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:32 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Wednesday, October 19, 2016 8:32 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is just unacceptable. i'm not permanently in vancouver anymore so i've forgotten a few things and have been following the us election closer, but this is basic information canadians should know! people are spending too much time watching american tv and not enough on interacting with the town/city/people around them
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 17:45 (seven years ago) link
of course that piece of human garbage in the newyorker link above is a PUA almuni
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 17:49 (seven years ago) link
Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself. That's hilarious.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
...and gamergate hanger-on
― goole, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:19 (seven years ago) link
He suggested talking points for his followers to deploy, such as “If the alt-right is racist, is Israel racist, too?”
this is a stupid thought bc engaging w/ these ppl on any level is a waste of time but it's maybe amusing to note that if the US guaranteed immigration to religious compatriots like they do in israel they'd basically be opening the border to mexico. feel like maybe they haven't thought this analogy through.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:22 (seven years ago) link
maybe he meant, "really interested in current developments in antisemitism"
― goole, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:34 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, and as google mentioned, assoc. w/ GamerGate.
All these guys came out of that swill of PUA/Men's Rights/RedPill/GamerGate shit, where their strongest political motivation is borne from their own fucked-up psychosexual pathology.
As much of the Chapo guys & others make fun of these schmucks for only being incel keyboard kommando schmucks(which they are and deserved to be mocked for), the problem is that they also need to be kept an eye on, because of what they can lay the groundwork for. Dave Neiwert's been righting about this stuff for years, about how enough white nationalist shitheads have been moving to parts of Idaho to start having an affect on local politics.
Similarly, you had the militia movement decades ago being just a bunch of guys playing army in the woods and exchanging copies of the Turner Diaries until some of them organized to the point of doing the Oklahoma City bombing. I remember this part clearly since one of their associates(Mike from Michigan, I think) wound up being a janitor in my freshman year dorm in Ann Arbor.
(Ann Arbor being only about 40-50 mins S of Brighton, where the Klan HQ was rumored to have relocated)
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 18:53 (seven years ago) link
Hadn't heard the idea that Hillary had murdered people by herself.
And rolled his body up in a White House carpet and carried it out to a park! People have forgotten just how insane much of the 90s was.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 19:00 (seven years ago) link
Cernovich thinks of himself as a trendsetter - he says, "What they don’t realize is that someone like me is perceived as the new Fourth Estate." - but is he actually doing anything but amplifying back to his audience the beliefs and ideas they already want? he couldn't, for eg, tell them tmmrw something diametrically opposed to their worldview and maintain his credibility. he's not the new walter cronkite - no one's trusts him. they just trust him to tell them what they already want to hear.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 21:42 (seven years ago) link
if cernovich came out tomorrow and said, you know i think i was wrong on this point about women in gaming, he'd be a "cuck" instantly
― nomar, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 21:51 (seven years ago) link
The piece calls the McInnes show alt-right but in a run down of right wing groups McInnes said he felt uncomfortable around the alt-right's racism and he dismissed gamergate. But the few people on the list I knew that he seemed to approve of were no good.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:07 (seven years ago) link
McInnes is an out-and-out white supremacist so i don't know what he dislikes about the alt-right except maybe that they're more vulgar than he'd like
― Mordy, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:11 (seven years ago) link
I think he said something like "I have a mixed race wife and they're too into racial purity for my liking".
Can't believe McInnes is the same guy who hung around with alt-comix guys like Dave Cooper and Pat McEown.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:17 (seven years ago) link
So in other words McInnes is one of these guys distressed by the tone of the discourse
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:18 (seven years ago) link
http://www.zumcomics.info/Archive/zum!10/pqr.html
Can you imagine Julie Doucet and James Kochalka praising him today?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 22:27 (seven years ago) link
Has he always been an out and out white supremacist? If he's the so-called godfather of hipsters and managed to surround himself with lefty cartoonists and comedians it's hard to imagine he hasn't changed a bit.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link
I don't think pat and Dave would have put up with that kind of thing. I remember them sort of talking about him in those days the way you talk about your annoying but beloved buddy. (Knew pat and dave at the time but never met gavin)
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 23:32 (seven years ago) link
i guess he doesn't use the term 'white supremacist' about himself- but he loves talking about the bell curve and black on white violence and all the things self-described white supremacists also like to talk about. but maybe he likes the jews and asians more than your average st0rmfr0nt3r?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 23:34 (seven years ago) link
He definitely blossomed into a full shitbag at some point
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 26 October 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link
apparently he loves amy schumer which surprises me. i guess he's kinda iconoclastic? still a douchebag no doubt but i like him lecturing stupid taki commenters
― Mordy, Wednesday, 26 October 2016 23:39 (seven years ago) link
"The Trump-supporting American alt-right media believes Ed Miliband was a ‘hit-man and fixer’ for Hillary Clinton"
http://evolvepolitics.com/the-trump-media-have-outed-ed-miliband-as-a-fixer-and-hit-man-for-hillary-clinton/
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Thursday, 27 October 2016 23:32 (seven years ago) link
This is so brilliant. I can imagine British guys sympathetic to alt-righters being unable to swallow this.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 27 October 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
loooool
― imago, Thursday, 27 October 2016 23:59 (seven years ago) link
this seems relevant? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/01/the-ruthlessly-effective-rebranding-of-europes-new-far-right
― Mordy, Tuesday, 1 November 2016 22:21 (seven years ago) link
It's a bit more subtle than that article, some of the parties, like the Sweden Democrats, has a neo-nazi past, while others, such as Danish Peoples Party, come from old populist movements, specifically anti-tax movements. Also, I honestly don't believe the populists will transform politics. The article says Nasser Khader was wrong when he said 'influence' would weaken DPP, but that's a quirk. It's not influence that the populists can't deal with, it's responsibility. In Norway, the populists (called Fremskridtspartiet) are on the retreat, after having went into government as one of the first populist parties, and done a shit job of it. At the last election, by all rights, the DPP should have had the post of prime minister, they were the biggest party on the right, but they didn't even want to get into government. They wanted to stand aside, get anti-immigration measures passed, and basically not have to deal with complex economic questions. That's been impossible, though, as the right-wing coalition now includes some very rabid libertarians, who wants to pass austerity measures and save up for tax cuts for the rich, which the DPP agreed to in the past, back when they were minor partners, but can't agree to now without losing their socialist credentials. So they're already in trouble, and on top of that they've just been caught in a giant EU scandal concerning millions of kroner that has been misspent. The problem is they're lying hypocrites, and that will eventually be exposed.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 1 November 2016 23:40 (seven years ago) link
I'm not sure the alt-right is all that relevant to what's happening in much of Europe. Possibly more so to Raheem Kassam's abortive attempt to take over UKIP - he's closer to the contrarian, young, meninist, @PepeHimmer1488 demographic than most and i have a feeling that he wouldn't have won even if he was white. He is the direction Arron Banks, the main donor to UKIP, wants to go in, but the party is largely made up of weird old conservatives who don't particularly get it.
The FN has quite a lot of the youth vote but, as the article says, has been trying to campaign more to the disaffected on the myth of economic competence than in the past. Like UKIP, it has a weak base and, if the reports of the party being bankrupt and scratching around for loans in the UAE are to be believed, close to no financial backing. As Frederik says, the biggest problem a lot of the parties have is that, beyond one or two vaguely credible figureheads, they're mostly eccentrics and incompetents who can't actually deliver anything when in positions of authority.
The big risk is that more serious libertarian figures - your Peter Thiels rather than Arron Bankses - start piling enough money in to the parties to enable them to pivot away from protest votes and fig-leaf conservatism and towards an ostensibly competent technocratic fascism but i think they're probably happy enough with the status quo for now.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 08:39 (seven years ago) link
https://s11.postimg.org/isojehuw3/Cw_Hwm_Z9_XYAE12_Mk.jpg
lol
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 11:02 (seven years ago) link
This has been brought up a few times but someone here must have an idea. How does the alt right manage to get onto everyone's youtube recommendations? What are they doing that every other group desperate to send a message isn't doing?
Newest such video on my youtube front page is "Varg says it best again: how to deal with muslim terrorists" from a channel called "Alt Right Finland".
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:15 (seven years ago) link
If you watch a Varg video, it's too late to bolt the door; he'll infest your recommendations forever
― imago, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link
I watched some of those men's rights videos with the bald guy and the skulls and my youtube recommendations were littered with that for over a year, no matter how many times I clicked on "not interested" or whatever. Currently nothing in my recommended like that, but it was like a plague for a while.
― how's life, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:23 (seven years ago) link
xxp - I had that, but with Bill Burr videos. I don't remember ever even clicking on a Bill Burr video and no amount of 'I don't want to see this' would stop the recs.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:28 (seven years ago) link
I don't get much Burzum music recommendations somehow but I'm sure I'll get many more alt right videos quoting Varg
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:35 (seven years ago) link
Been watching a lot of Burr videos on youtube recently, enjoying a lot of it. The way some of his fans label his videos you can tell they want (NEED) him to be far more prejudiced and conspiracy crazy than he is. They do this with Chapelle too and probably a lot of other comedians. Like you have a 10 minute video and the title is something like "comedian explains why women are worthless and totally DESTROYS them" and there's just one brief joke about women in the whole thing. Now those fans are calling him a traitor for making fun of conspiracy nuts and racists. I did hear him say he used to be into conspiracy stuff though.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 12:47 (one month ago)
From a stand-up comedy thread.
Burr keeps mocking Trump and calling him a sex offender with bigot supporters yet people are still making videos with titles as if he's a Trump supporter. A new one with a title states Burr supporting Trump but in the video he's doing the opposite.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:46 (seven years ago) link
i wonder if that's an attempt to troll trumpers?
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:49 (seven years ago) link
I don't know but it seems like an awful lot of people somehow feel betrayed and utterly shocked that Joe Rogan, Sam Harris and Bill Burr hate Trump.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 17:54 (seven years ago) link
Sam Harris hates Trump?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
oh wait nm i knew that. i was thinking of sam hyde
jesus actual christ
https://twitter.com/TheRickyVaughn/status/793614382538317824
― goole, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
legit surprised rogan is antitrump
― goole, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:28 (seven years ago) link
ah yes famous alt righer MRA poster child and serial murderer elliot rogers at the bottom
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:31 (seven years ago) link
i'm not sure, but they're definitely gaming the youtube recs system hard. i wish youtube would either fix it or let me turn off their recommendation engine. i watch sam bee, italian film soundtrack videos, and metroid speedruns and from that my recommendations are flooded with alt-right bullshit. (it's probably the metroid speedruns.)
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:36 (seven years ago) link
they also have reddits algorithm found out which is why /r/the_donald is always dominating. that and redditors are into that shit.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
It's weird how some things just don't get recommended at all. I watch loads of old film trailers but never get them recommended.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:39 (seven years ago) link
i watch sam bee, italian film soundtrack videos, and metroid speedruns and from that my recommendations are flooded with alt-right bullshit. (it's probably the metroid speedruns.)
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, November 2, 2016 1:36 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha was gonna say no mystery at all
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:43 (seven years ago) link
youtube can probably live with not fixing their algorithms because there's enough good content on there that i'm not going to flee the site (though if someone wrote a plugin that blocked youtube's recommendation engine in-browser i'd sure as hell install it), but i have pretty much abandoned reddit. if your site doesn't regulate hate speech, it turns into a hate speech site.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:45 (seven years ago) link
reddit, outside of the_donald and the MRA subs (and metacanada – the canadian the_donald) seems p universally appalled by the_donald to me. there's been a few discussions making it to the top about how they must have some up-vote bots rigged and on overdrive for that sub.
i'm now thinking about how tough it might be to build a custom youtube recommendation plugin. i have the same thing happening with anti-liberal stuff during the last election – for some reason if you were watching a liberal party vid, it would start recommending all these nazi/hitler videos. really fucking weird.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:54 (seven years ago) link
when i've cruised through that cesspool i've seen links recommending that the 'centipedes' screw with search results...somehow. like, GIS 'rapist' and it'll come up bill clinton or whatever. i have no idea how this actually works irl
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 18:58 (seven years ago) link
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall)
yes, most of them are more Richard Russell types
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 19:05 (seven years ago) link
ok i figured out how to get it running. it's here:
https://youtube.adblockplus.me/
this is an adblock plus script, but it also works on ublock origin (which you should be using instead of adblock plus anyway). it blocks recommended videos, comments, the whole shebang. whew.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, 2 November 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link
but comments are half the fun
― rip van wanko, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 22:04 (seven years ago) link
^ alt-right
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 2 November 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
Not 100% on-topic but this seems like the better place for it:
Trump fans on my FB feed KEEP posting memes like this that supposedly expose the Clintons or Obamas as hypocrites because they might listen to or have some association with Jay-Z or Beyonce. Like, I'm up for talking about sexism in popular music lyrics but this is the best political argument you can make, guys?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Sunday, 6 November 2016 17:35 (seven years ago) link
They might also pick an example of sexism in popular music lyrics?
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 6 November 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, that particular meme is especially weird that way.
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Sunday, 6 November 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
Like it's an inborne and tribally reinforced inability to differentiate sexism from sexually explicit
― (rocketcat) 🚀🐱 👑🐟 (kingfish), Tuesday, 8 November 2016 07:35 (seven years ago) link
What happened with that Ed Miliband thing? Did they backpedal once they realised who he is/what he's like?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 8 November 2016 10:36 (seven years ago) link
lol like these idiots have any interest in self-reflection or correcting errors
― not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 8 November 2016 10:54 (seven years ago) link
It's just one of my favourite political related things this year and part of me wants them to be humiliated by this, part of me wants them to keep going and insist he's this assassin who keeps getting away with it.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 8 November 2016 11:11 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, it'll live on in a 40-source imgur, the url for which will be pasted into other imgurs unto eternity.
Which reminds me that I haven't heard much about the medical handler with the epipen - I think Clinton being clearly in good health for the first debate probably cleared a certain amount of that out?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 8 November 2016 11:19 (seven years ago) link
Been reading a bunch about these creeps lately, seems like it moved from "new masculinity" to PUA to MRA to Reaction to alt-right in a pretty speedy succession. IMO these guys are dangerous, because they're spreading a dangerous memeplex more than because they're a serious threat in their own right (like, most of them probably don't leave their basements much but their ideas lean so readily to Nazi-like conclusions that I worry about the ideas getting normalized). Like the Slate Star Codex guy, I find the philosophy kind of fascinating if creepy. It's all a bit cult-like & with the US election results & unrest in Europe... I dunno. Just wanted to keep this thread alive.
Was reminded of the Neo-Victorians that featured in some Neal Stephenson book (was it The Diamond Age?) & how at the time I read it, I was like, "yeah, of course there's going to be a generation that gets tired of dressing like slobs and misses strict gender and class roles & formality & tries to bring that back." Hadn't really imagined what that would look like outside of a fashion subculture, though, like bringing back all the race-superiority and sex-normativity of a bygone era so essentially shitty that we spent the whole 20th century trying to escape its shackles.
― hardcore dilettante, Monday, 14 November 2016 03:49 (seven years ago) link
the alt-right enters the white house
WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump on Sunday chose Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee and a loyal campaign adviser, to be his White House chief of staff, turning to a Washington insider whose friendship with the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan, could help secure early legislative victories.In selecting Mr. Priebus, Mr. Trump passed over Stephen K. Bannon, a right-wing media provocateur. But the president-elect named Mr. Bannon his senior counselor and chief West Wing strategist, signaling an embrace of the fringe ideology long advanced by Mr. Bannon and of a continuing disdain for the Republican establishment.The dual appointments — with Mr. Bannon given top billing in the official announcement — instantly created rival centers of power in the Trump White House.Mr. Bannon’s selection demonstrated the power of grass-roots activists who backed Mr. Trump’s candidacy. Some of them have long traded in the conspiracy theories and sometimes racist messages of Breitbart News, the website that Mr. Bannon ran for much of the past decade.The site has accused President Obama of “importing more hating Muslims”; compared Planned Parenthood’s work to the Holocaust; called the conservative commentator Bill Kristol a “renegade Jew”; and advised female victims of online harassment to “just log off” and stop “screwing up the internet for men,” illustrating that point with a picture of a crying child.
In selecting Mr. Priebus, Mr. Trump passed over Stephen K. Bannon, a right-wing media provocateur. But the president-elect named Mr. Bannon his senior counselor and chief West Wing strategist, signaling an embrace of the fringe ideology long advanced by Mr. Bannon and of a continuing disdain for the Republican establishment.
The dual appointments — with Mr. Bannon given top billing in the official announcement — instantly created rival centers of power in the Trump White House.
Mr. Bannon’s selection demonstrated the power of grass-roots activists who backed Mr. Trump’s candidacy. Some of them have long traded in the conspiracy theories and sometimes racist messages of Breitbart News, the website that Mr. Bannon ran for much of the past decade.
The site has accused President Obama of “importing more hating Muslims”; compared Planned Parenthood’s work to the Holocaust; called the conservative commentator Bill Kristol a “renegade Jew”; and advised female victims of online harassment to “just log off” and stop “screwing up the internet for men,” illustrating that point with a picture of a crying child.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/reince-priebus-chief-of-staff-donald-trump.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
― flappy bird, Monday, 14 November 2016 05:21 (seven years ago) link
Someone on another forum I go to was linking to The Daily Sheeple and it says that there's paedophile codewords in Hillary and Podesta's emails, about a satanic sex ring cult. I didn't click on the link but is it a parody site or something?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 14 November 2016 08:24 (seven years ago) link
I was a overcautious because I thought it might be a virus trap or something.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 14 November 2016 08:25 (seven years ago) link
A great local pizza place in DC got harassed over that crazy shit just because Podesta frequents it.
― Chris L, Monday, 14 November 2016 08:41 (seven years ago) link
Hadn't really imagined what that would look like outside of a fashion subculture, though, like bringing back all the race-superiority and sex-normativity of a bygone era so essentially shitty that we spent the whole 20th century trying to escape its shackles.
They don't seem particularly anti-LGBT as far as I can tell, as long as nothing scares the horses - but the Republican party will be happy to pick up the slack.
I am not sure whether the satanic sex cult ring came from the Marina Abramović Spirit Dinner stuff or was knocking around beforehand - /r/the_donald was in a froth about it all in the last few days before the election (I haven't been back since, which is probably doing me some good)
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 14 November 2016 10:53 (seven years ago) link
They're pretty anti-T.
― more like dork enlightenment lol (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 14 November 2016 10:58 (seven years ago) link
xps yeah, Comet Ping Pong, that was so weird
― flappy bird, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:36 (seven years ago) link
Was thinking a lot lately about the convergence of PUA culture, MRA and the alt-right. Sexual access to women, or perceived lack thereof, as fuel for a political force.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
remember the polygamy causes terrorism meme?
― Mordy, Monday, 14 November 2016 16:40 (seven years ago) link
yeah I do vaguely remember that
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 November 2016 16:41 (seven years ago) link
I've seen surprising people pick up some ideas associated with alt-right. It's like Body Snatchers. There must be a huge amount of variety and crossover. How often do leftie conspiracy nuts rub shoulders with them? Are there many feminist conspiracy nuts?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 14 November 2016 19:03 (seven years ago) link
someone in toronto made some posters
https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/toronto-white-person-alt-right-posters?utm_term=.fryb5ZVkv#.avxen6r35
― goole, Monday, 14 November 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
They don't seem particularly anti-LGBT as far as I can tell, as long as nothing scares the horses
Maybe not with homosexual sex (same as it has ever been with the far right) but anything undermining cultural norms - 'acting gay' much less the entire T part - is anathema.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Monday, 14 November 2016 22:33 (seven years ago) link
There's definitely overlap with the "art of manliness"/artisanal knives culture where unreconstructed white bros who're susceptible to whatever's floating around in the culture are gonna pick up on alt-right ideas, where if the culture had just continued its leftward drift they'd be more getting down with genderfuckery and I dunno Syrian cuisine or whatever. Things that militate against that, tho:1) some of the alt-right's power does stem from its "alt"ness, so as naff people pick it up, it loses appeal to real hipsters2) as the emboldened nazi shits go full-on explicitly racist in public, that will actually be a turn-off for a bunch of folks (whereas if they'd turned up the heat slowly, the bros would have found they'd become boiled frogs).
― hardcore dilettante, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 03:09 (seven years ago) link
are there organisations fighting this sort of thing yet? i prob sound v naive/feckless/earnest/dim but i would gladly donate to/volunteer for an org that was trying to counter this stuff. I've started donating to (britisher) amnesty and reprieve but it feels like they're more about countering abuse by states than masses of individuals...
― sktsh, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 09:57 (seven years ago) link
like is there an equivalent to the southern poverty law center operating in the UK? or maybe since this all playing out on the internet the geographic thing is not so important anyway? idk
― sktsh, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 11:18 (seven years ago) link
1) some of the alt-right's power does stem from its "alt"ness, so as naff people pick it up, it loses appeal to real hipsters
this is interesting, I think some of its power does stem from the fact that its like a secret language, and the people that their trolling don't "get" it. From a UK perspective, I've started seeing quite a few UKIP supporting truelad.com types using basic versions of alt-right memes and talking points, and they seem very different from the 4chan/ten-levels-of-irony guys
― soref, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 12:44 (seven years ago) link
Plus there is nowhere for eg /r/the_donald to go but down - the god emperor can't help but disappoint them, it'll probably not be more than a month until the first "have we been tricked?" thread.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:17 (seven years ago) link
See, we think that, and we may be right, but then there's Scott Adams Adamsplaining to us that what their god-emperor does is not shifting but rather "pacing and leading."
Pacing and Leading: Trump always takes the extreme position on matters of safety and security for the country, even if those positions are unconstitutional, impractical, evil, or something that the military would refuse to do. Normal people see this as a dangerous situation. Trained persuaders like me see this as something called pacing and leading. Trump “paces” the public – meaning he matches them in their emotional state, and then some. He does that with his extreme responses on immigration, fighting ISIS, stop-and-frisk, etc. Once Trump has established himself as the biggest bad-ass on the topic, he is free to “lead,” which we see him do by softening his deportation stand, limiting his stop-and-frisk comment to Chicago, reversing his first answer on penalties for abortion, and so on. If you are not trained in persuasion, Trump look scary. If you understand pacing and leading, you might see him as the safest candidate who has ever gotten this close to the presidency.
― marzipandemonium (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:28 (seven years ago) link
I think Scott Adams is, in the end, more interested in the Cult of Scott Adams than he is the alt-right. Like there's a lot of overlap but I don't think the alt right is taking its cues from an office humour cartoonist.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:39 (seven years ago) link
Of course I hate them both and I hate them all, but it might - MIGHT - be a kinda accurate description of the workings of rightwingnut opinion. The Orange One has not disappointed them - yet - because what he's done so far is meet them where they are. Once they glommed onto his hideous visage they've followed whither he went. Whether it's by accident or design doesn't ultimately matter. No they're not taking their cues from an office humour cartoonist, but this may be an accurate description of the dynamic.
Given how demonstrably shitty most of us were at saying what was going to happen only a week ago, I'm not putting a lot of trust in my own powers of prediction. Speaking only for myself there.
From now on, if the topic is political culture, and I begin a sentence with something to the effect of "here's what I think is going to happen," everyone around me is authorized to shoot to kill.
― marzipandemonium (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:49 (seven years ago) link
Haha yeah, same. I just think that a huge part of the post-4chan edgelord alt right shtick is a complete allergy to any kind of compromise, so those dudes have a lot of disappointment in store for them. More "respectable" fringes may very well end up at the same position as Scott Adams, yeah, and I think the actual majority of people who voted Trump will be easily distracted by other cultural wars and spin that Trump comes up with.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:57 (seven years ago) link
For all I know, Trump could come out tomorrow in favor of single-payer health care and open borders, and after a moment's thought the alt-right doodz would be like FUCK YEAH!
I suspect they just want to be on the side that's meeting their juvenile emotional middle-finger-raising needs, and the specifics are secondary. It's tribal rather than ideological.
But as noted, feel free to prepend everything I write about this with an unspoken disclaimer like "Clearly I know nothing about anything, because a week ago, I sincerely thought this whole phenomenon was a last hot flareup of a doomed worldview."
― marzipandemonium (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:02 (seven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 14:17 (forty-five minutes ago) Permalink
Watching these gimps get Ernst Roehm'd is going to be one of the consolations of the next few years
― more like dork enlightenment lol (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:11 (seven years ago) link
believe me when i say - his hardcore supporters are not going to admit to, or reflect on, anything. i lived through 4 years of rob ford in Toronto (i've noticed an endless chain in similarities in the support for both these men), and i saw his supporters make excuses for literally all of his behaviour. his soft support could melt away quick enough – but there will be 25-30% of people that will make excuses for anything. whatever it takes to not have to admit they are wrong. what will be more likely with these people is they will just double down on all their preconceived notions and prejudices. and there will be no shortage of people to blame for whatever goes wrong for trump. liberals, the media, minorities, unions, "elites", bureaucrats, judges, scientists, "SJW" – all people easily and readily thrown under the bus in order to excuse trumps failures and their own.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:42 (seven years ago) link
I think you're right. The alt-right and the parodies of them are almost impossible to tell apart right now. I wonder if you'd be able to make a parody site and have these guys follow any ludicrous thing you say. But there's probably lots of different types of alt-right who believe in very different things.
I heard something a while ago about Elon Musk drinking blood at ceremonies, I couldn't tell if it was a joke. What would they have against him?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:53 (seven years ago) link
Lol @ "pacing and leading" aka "pandering and bullshit".
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 15:55 (seven years ago) link
We are talking about a movement founded to a large extent by dudes whose qualifications are limited to saying "yeah, I fucked her."
― Three Word Username, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:06 (seven years ago) link
least they have a qualifications framework so
― more like dork enlightenment lol (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:07 (seven years ago) link
Someone's been putting up recruitment posters in Toronto: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/11/14/racist-alt-right-posters-toronto-school_n_12963366.html
Probably telling that my first reaction is "These fringe lunatics are never going to get anywhere in Canada." Denial is sooo much more pleasant than accepting that these people are organizing in my area.
― franny glasshole (franny glass), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:13 (seven years ago) link
they did seem to get taken down p fast and the consensus (at least from people speaking up about them) seems to be that they were repulsive.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link
There was another Scott Adams interview a couple days ago where he described Trump's pattern of advancing then backing off from extreme positions as "A/B testing," indicative of a "business approach."
― jmm, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link
He doesn't also criticize Clinton for flip-flopping and having public and private positions, does he?
― Spiritual Hat Minimalism (Sund4r), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:19 (seven years ago) link
has anyone asked scott adams why he thinks a guy who lost a billion dollars in one year and has bankrupted businesses multiple times is a actually good businessman?
― not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:21 (seven years ago) link
the political equivalent of that level of fuckuppery could start wars ffs
― not all those who chunder are sloshed (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:23 (seven years ago) link
xp Because he can recast him as secretly smart in a way that only Scott Adams can see.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:23 (seven years ago) link
xps I mean yeah they're repulsive and they're at least making the news and being described as repulsive, but I truly don't think that would have happened a month ago.
― franny glasshole (franny glass), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
scott adams is not alt-right. he's a gullible knowitall, which is close.
― goole, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:36 (seven years ago) link
if being a gullible knowitall made you alt-right we could just take /r/the_donald's traffic
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:39 (seven years ago) link
Scott Adams has always had shitty MRA-type views so it's not surprising that the alt-right gravitated to him. I don't necessarily think he's a part of that movement but he's definitely pandering to them and telling them what they want to hear.
Do have to laugh at his lessons about "pacing and leading" and "A/B testing" which is a funny way of saying "indecisive and doesn't really know what the president does"
― frogbs, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:41 (seven years ago) link
so my wife went to the high school where current head of breitbart went and someone decided to post on their alumni group about the 'elephant in the room'. his wife posted this response:
As someone who has personal experience with Steve, I can tell you he is a brilliant patriot who has an impressive resume including naval officer, investment banker, Hollywood producer, and media mogul. He helped turn a long-shot candidacy into an electoral victory. Whether or not you agree with him on policy, you must admit he's effective. I'm well aware of the media talking points on why we're all supposed to hate him, but I think a lot of people are getting fooled. The comments regarding his children came from his divorce proceedings! Are you really going to define a man's life over one comment alleged in a bitter divorce?I realize that many news outlets are running with the idea that he is racist, but these are the same media outlets that misled you about the election and the voters. By so casually accusing people of racism and anti-Semitism with little or no evidence, you are cheapening the meaning of these words. The Democrats do this to Republicans every election. Here's what Coretta Scott King said about Reagan in 1980: “I am scared that if Ronald Reagan gets into office, we are going to see more of the Ku Klux Klan and a resurgence of the Nazi Party." Donald Trump has a Jewish daughter and Jewish grandchildren. Do you really think he'd appoint an anti-Semite as his top advisor? The premise is absurd!I challenge you to read Breitbart News for a few weeks and to listen to SiriusXM Patriot 125 6-9am EST. Their headlines are provocative, but the articles themselves are mostly straightforward facts. The media is cherry-picking a few headlines from opinion pieces (many of which are satire!) and suggesting they are representative of the entire website. Read the articles and explain why you disagree, don't just dismiss them because you don't like the opinion stated in the headline.As far as the "alt-right" branding, it's a media buzz word with an unclear definition. Some use it to describe fringe KKK groups and others merely use it to describe constituents who are fed up with the establishment Republican Party. Breitbart is certainly not a platform for white supremacists and in fact, has been BOYCOTTED by far right groups because it has openly gay writers. Not to mention, it has an entire section (Breitbart Jerusalem) that defends Israel, the world's lone Jewish state. Steve is credited with launching this section personally.My husband, Alexander Marlow, was Andrew Breitbart’s first employee and is now editor in chief of Breitbart News, which has 40+ million monthly readers because it reports the news that no other outlets have the courage to report. This election has made it very clear that America is divided and that mainstream media is completely out of touch with at least half of the nation. I humbly suggest that you not repeat old mistakes and seek out diverse points of view!
I realize that many news outlets are running with the idea that he is racist, but these are the same media outlets that misled you about the election and the voters. By so casually accusing people of racism and anti-Semitism with little or no evidence, you are cheapening the meaning of these words. The Democrats do this to Republicans every election. Here's what Coretta Scott King said about Reagan in 1980: “I am scared that if Ronald Reagan gets into office, we are going to see more of the Ku Klux Klan and a resurgence of the Nazi Party." Donald Trump has a Jewish daughter and Jewish grandchildren. Do you really think he'd appoint an anti-Semite as his top advisor? The premise is absurd!
I challenge you to read Breitbart News for a few weeks and to listen to SiriusXM Patriot 125 6-9am EST. Their headlines are provocative, but the articles themselves are mostly straightforward facts. The media is cherry-picking a few headlines from opinion pieces (many of which are satire!) and suggesting they are representative of the entire website. Read the articles and explain why you disagree, don't just dismiss them because you don't like the opinion stated in the headline.As far as the "alt-right" branding, it's a media buzz word with an unclear definition. Some use it to describe fringe KKK groups and others merely use it to describe constituents who are fed up with the establishment Republican Party. Breitbart is certainly not a platform for white supremacists and in fact, has been BOYCOTTED by far right groups because it has openly gay writers. Not to mention, it has an entire section (Breitbart Jerusalem) that defends Israel, the world's lone Jewish state. Steve is credited with launching this section personally.
My husband, Alexander Marlow, was Andrew Breitbart’s first employee and is now editor in chief of Breitbart News, which has 40+ million monthly readers because it reports the news that no other outlets have the courage to report. This election has made it very clear that America is divided and that mainstream media is completely out of touch with at least half of the nation. I humbly suggest that you not repeat old mistakes and seek out diverse points of view!
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:45 (seven years ago) link
she uses milo as a shield!
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:46 (seven years ago) link
explicitly patriarchal gender views are only one leg of the stool, and probably the most popular, it's true
a commitment to racial hierarchy (if not "race science") is the other, but a lot of people have that too -- the alts were open and explicit about it while your average tcot type likes blue lives and tendentious MLK memes. anti-semitism used to be the key dividing between alt and regular-GOP right, but that membrane is breaking down imo.
back when these guys were getting going, hostility to democratic government was the last and most important: celebrate monarchy, oligarchy, theocracy, whatever. lee yuan kew, pinochet and uhh the stuarts were big heroes. now that donald has won and the alt-right is officially A Thing (thanks, hillary) this part has been obscured and forgotten
― goole, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:50 (seven years ago) link
there was a moment when the more highbrow "NRx" type people disdained old-school nazism as just communism for whites. it dovetails with the general tendency of nerds to fetishize 'intelligence' for its own sake and all the resentments carried with it (why can't the smart people just be in charge and be sexy and respected); adam's style certainly overlaps with that
― goole, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
now that donald has won and the alt-right is officially A Thing (thanks, hillary) this part has been obscured and forgotten
has it so quickly? the stuarts are one thing but idk if admiration for authoritarians like pinochet or lee kuan yew is off the table. (putin obviously isn't.) incidentally my mom who grew up in late-colonial/early-post-colonial singapore seems on the balance to greatly admire lee kuan yew despite her fairly public parents having been under frequent threat of lawsuit or delicensing from him for oppositional speech and id rly k how to feel abt it. i think zizek once said the 21c would build statues of him in every country. lky, not zizek.
― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 18:25 (seven years ago) link
Adams' style is also all about explaining things. THIS is what is true and THIS is what is not, and if you believe that other thing you've been hypnotized. I know, because I took a class in hypnotism. In fact I'm hypnotizing you right now. You're going to wake up tomorrow and realize you've been living in a matriarchy all along.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 15 November 2016 18:54 (seven years ago) link
that facebook post about breitbart I copied and pasted upthread made the 'news'
https://www.buzzfeed.com/salvadorhernandez/ties-to-trump-and-breitbart-divide-exclusive-los-angeles-sch
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
marlow's wife not only deleted her post but her entire facebook account
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
Before I knew what the "alt-right" was, I spent some time on a message board that had a strong alt-right contingent, though it had other contingents as well (not 4-chan or reddit). I have to admit that sometimes I found the some of the alt-right posting very funny, because it took the piss out of the intense self-seriousness of some parts of the left. I've found Rush Limbaugh funny at times in the same way without ever agreeing with him on any substance. I think it would be wise to recognize that there's an element of the "backlash" here that's really about oversocialization, about politeness to the point of feeling inauthentic and unable to express darker emotions.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 16 November 2016 19:48 (seven years ago) link
Rush is old news, it's all about Tomi Lahren now
― frogbs, Wednesday, 16 November 2016 19:51 (seven years ago) link
the alt-right is funnier than the uptight-left
http://heatst.com/entertainment/if-ghostbusters-was-just-a-little-better-it-could-have-defeated-donald-trump/
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 17 November 2016 18:44 (seven years ago) link
milo will have been loving all of this
http://www.influxpress.com/blog/2016/11/17/open-letter-objecting-to-the-invitation-of-milo-yiannopolous-to-speak-at-simon-langton
― imago, Monday, 21 November 2016 13:27 (seven years ago) link
it's a nice letter though
the "uptight left" is usually just liberals. The dirtbag left is funny.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 14:48 (seven years ago) link
the sexed-up coverage of the alt-right in a bunch of mainstream outlets lately has been distressing, especially Mother Jones.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
http://www.vice.com/read/heil-trump-this-is-the-alternative-right
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Monday, 21 November 2016 21:41 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, there's something that goes into this like the journo/blogger need to focus on a thing and publicize the hell out of it, feeding in the provocative nature more than any contemplative. It's like Isis or some shit, which the coverage goes hyperbolic and they get built up into being Cobra.
― (rocketcat) (kingfish), Monday, 21 November 2016 21:46 (seven years ago) link
Feel like the generic public still doesn't know about the alt-right. The coverage is justified considering Steve Bannon's new place in the world
― Nhex, Monday, 21 November 2016 22:28 (seven years ago) link
Yeah the particular way it has been done though has been very bad. MJ originally had a headline along the lines of "Meet the dapper new leader of the white nationalist movement" or something, deleted it.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 21 November 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
Milo is speaking at the school I work at next month. I feel a bunch of lefty academics protesting and yelling is exactly what he would thrive so I really want to organize some sort of response where a bunch of people get tickets, show up, and totally ignore him by knitting, doing homework, napping, reading, etc. I also want to avoid racist assholes threatening to firebomb my house so not sure how to go about this.
― joygoat, Monday, 21 November 2016 23:02 (seven years ago) link
would think nobody protesting, nobody getting tickets is probably the best response
― frogbs, Monday, 21 November 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link
is there any reason to call these people "alt-right" when "neo-nazi" would suffice?
― k3vin k., Monday, 21 November 2016 23:09 (seven years ago) link
XP ...or an audience completely made up of women and POCs with fixed death stares.
― a full playlist of presidential apocalypse jams (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 21 November 2016 23:11 (seven years ago) link
Arent a lot of the socalled alt-right people just bascially trolls, anyway? Not so much the big players but the followers. They think the reactions they get are FUNNY. Wouldnt matter what side it was, as long as its women and weak-assed pansy cucks, they'd say anything shitty to get a rise.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 02:28 (seven years ago) link
Things can arise from the lulz - I'm reading a 'biography' of Anyonymous at the moment from 2013 and it's clear that trollishness can definitely exist alongside emerging politicisation (though wow it's an uncomfortable read this year).
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 08:02 (seven years ago) link
Trolling is def an important part of the alt-right's DNA (and not just the followers, Milo always seems to me to be saying and doing things to get a rise out of people as much as furthering any "philosophy") but there's not "just" trolls about it - the temptation to dismiss them as "just" trolls, to conceptualise trolling itself as inherently ignorable or harmless, is where the danger also is.
And it sort of does matter which side it is because, well, they're the ones who picked the nazi side.
― k3vin k., Monday, November 21, 2016 11:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah I've been reading the arguments on this and I can definitely see why some think "alt-right" is a dangerous shiny rebranding that makes them more acceptable - I don't think it should ever be in any doubt that "alt-right" is a subset of "neo-Nazi" and not a brand new thing or a break from it. "Alt-right" seems useful in terms of describing their aesthetic and methods though - the radicalisation of white male frustration online, the very "dapperness" that makes an aesthetic break from unreconstructed skinheads and to me, seems necessary in capturing why their appeal is particularly dangerous now.
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 08:42 (seven years ago) link
the whole "european" thing is some weird semantic thing - have they all agreed to call themselves that or something?
this fucking guy in his nazi colour scheme, what vile creeps:
https://vice-images.vice.com/images/content-images/2016/11/21/heil-trump-this-is-the-alternative-right-body-image-1479752283.jpg
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 08:46 (seven years ago) link
― k3vin k., Monday, November 21, 2016 5:09 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I've personally flipped that switch already. Fuck whatever media-friendly label they prefer.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:30 (seven years ago) link
I really want to organize some sort of response where a bunch of people get tickets, show up, and totally ignore him by knitting, doing homework, napping, reading, etc
Was thinking about something similar when Channel 4 interviewed him last week - by all means, get him on the show, just ask him as inane questions as possible, e.g. "who's your favourite Beatle", "what's yr golf handicap" "have you ever tried homemade cream cheese" etc
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 13:56 (seven years ago) link
Arent a lot of the socalled alt-right people just bascially trolls, anyway? Not so much the big players but the followers. They think the reactions they get are FUNNY. Wouldnt matter what side it was, as long as its women and weak-assed pansy cucks, they'd say anything shitty to get a rise.― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, November 21, 2016 9:28 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, November 21, 2016 9:28 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Partly this; partly keeping "I was just being funny" as a defense if they might face consequences for their words and/or deeds. In which case they then smear their targets for not having a sense of humor and/or not knowing better than to feed the trolls.
― Diana Fire (j.lu), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 14:08 (seven years ago) link
"I was just kidding" is a refrain I'm very familiar with hearing from the people I've known who suffer from personality disorders.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 14:11 (seven years ago) link
There was a Danish news-parody show that once had an interview with a young guy from the populist right, who'd started a group protesting left-wing bias in the media. The first question was 'Can you tell me about your new group, you right-wing asshole?'
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 16:07 (seven years ago) link
Not for nothing are Danes known worldwide as the kings of comedy.
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 16:11 (seven years ago) link
Anyway, ThinkProgress says they won't be using "alt-right" anymore: https://thinkprogress.org/thinkprogress-alt-right-policy-b04fd141d8d4
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 16:12 (seven years ago) link
― Frederik B, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 11:07 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
is the B for Basic?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 16:14 (seven years ago) link
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:30 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I like to think of them as Trunk Club Fascists
I'm not sure what to make of some of the labelling. Many people including myself were using alt-right to refer to a much wider array of modern right wing bigotry, including non-whites who use some of the same ideas as the white nationalists and repurpose them to suit their own prejudices.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:15 (seven years ago) link
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:11 PM (four hours ago)
Er, wtf Old Lunch?
― emil.y, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:24 (seven years ago) link
I think the reason why I've used 'alt-right' as a term rather than neo-nazi is similar to what RAG is saying. It was something that encompassed a lot of online spheres, from PUAs to st0rmerz to channers to whoever else was being a fucking dickhead. Now that the entire real world is crumbling, though, I'm with people who want to call them what they are.
― emil.y, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
afaics, the whole "alt-right" label is just a rebranding of plain old white supremacy and neo-Nazism, for the same reason Comcast is trying to rebrand as Xfinity, because the old brand is hated and reviled. Using this new friendlier brand name just obscures their connection with white supremacy, which benefits the neo-nazis and no one else. The news media should be flayed for playing into the hands of these deplorable people. God, what a world we live in now.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:43 (seven years ago) link
they're mostly just entitled white-terrorist fuckhead dweebs and should be treated like any other terrorism suspects
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
except with more waterboarding
I'm kidding, they should be treated like Breivik their Viking lord, allowed to study for a degree from the comfort of prison
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
I don't even know. Put them and Isis in a big pit then check back forty years on, see if they've forged a new society together
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:52 (seven years ago) link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3954508/The-worrying-rise-Britain-s-modern-day-Hitler-youth-Neo-Nazi-referrals-Government-s-deradicalisation-programme-overtaking-Islamist-extremism-cases-parts-UK.html
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:54 (seven years ago) link
really though what the western world needs is an overhaul of education systems, mental health access, employment law and much, much besides
in the meantime, wage fucking cultural hell upon these cunts until they don't exist as a movement
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
We've got our own little tinpot Breivik here in the UK.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:57 (seven years ago) link
That article's headline should read 'SUCCESS! Our xenophobic hate-campaign reaches YOUR CHILDREN!'
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:58 (seven years ago) link
Of the Mail, I mean
And I don't care how trenchant that is
― imago, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:59 (seven years ago) link
... the Mail and all the others.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 18:59 (seven years ago) link
xps @Aimless, that's a great point, Clear Channel did the same thing - I didn't realize they were iHeartRadio until fairly recently.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 19:06 (seven years ago) link
Thing is though, don't some people who aren't white nationalists refer to themselves as "alt-right"? Like "I'm not white or racist, I just hate political correctness and women.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 19:16 (seven years ago) link
When you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 19:19 (seven years ago) link
Donald Trump knows the word 'disavow'
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 19:24 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 2:16 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nazi-adjacentNazi allies
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:04 (seven years ago) link
― emil.y, Tuesday, November 22, 2016 12:24 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Sorry, I was referring to PARTICULAR (and pointedly not ALL) NPD/BPD suffers I've known who didn't take personal responsibility for their actions or mental health and whose behavior reminded me of what j.lu described. That particular defense just hits a little close to home. It certainly wasn't meant as a blanket assessment, though, so I apologize if I caused offense.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:13 (seven years ago) link
ok deep breath.
there's specific recent history to these terms as well as overlap as well as slippery definitions of each.
the term 'alt-right' is not entirely generic; richard spencer ran (runs?) a website about white nationalist concerns called "alternative right" and has done so since the late bush years iirc? the idea that it was about old-right or explicitly white-right ideas that then-dominant bush-era neocon or theocon politics had kicked out
"white nationalist" is probably the best catch-all term but it doesn't encompass everything and everyone. "nationalist" does etymologically contain "natal" ie questions of birth, lineage and belonging which are the key obsessions that mainstream american conservatism keeps out of sight.
the high-toned term "neoreactionary" was bandied about a few years ago (with catchy web-contraction NRx), largely for people coalescing around blogger 'mencius moldbug.' this scene is much nerdier and less 'nazi'
quite a number of years ago john derbyshire suggested the term 'dissident right' to mean roughly all this stuff but it never took off
― goole, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:23 (seven years ago) link
not sure how it's resonating elsewhere but at least insofar as the_d0nald is concerned at least one thread exists where ppl are either really upset or just certain that it's a long game being played re: trumps announcement not to prosecute Clinton when he comes into office.
i am interested to see how these communities react to some of the more obvious walk-backs trump takes on his variously insane campaign promises
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:25 (seven years ago) link
i like the term fascist, but in an american context a lot of these people are old-right/libertarian descended -- ie it's not the totalized state but the totalized anti-state as utopia
― goole, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:26 (seven years ago) link
I'm sticking with "radical white terrorists"
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:26 (seven years ago) link
Hey, as long as they consort with neo-Nazis, I'm comfortable tagging them all with that label.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:28 (seven years ago) link
as long as actual neo-nazis are using this label to try and buff up their image/play down their murderous race fantasies i think it's probably good to use a label that brings out the real nature of their "ideas", and let the non-nazi alt-rightists work it out for themselves
― brex yourself before you wrex yourself (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:29 (seven years ago) link
sorry for same post as Old Lunch
xps sadly i don't think Trump will get any significant blowback from his most diehard supporters for broken promises. it'll get blamed on someone else.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:29 (seven years ago) link
yeah i agree with that totally.
xp NV i mean
― goole, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:30 (seven years ago) link
Yes, NV's is a perfect unpacking of my perspective.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:33 (seven years ago) link
yes. OTMFM. All those "non-nazi" alt-righters are free to create some other space for themselves and distance themselves from literal nazis.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
i think successful political nicknames are typically loose, simple, ideologically useless and openly derogatory. something like 'wingnut right' but you'd want a specific new coinage. these sensible or technical labels just legitimize, whereas it's better to be dismissive.
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
also the rise of the Hitler state was achieved thru a broad coalition of right wing interests. i'm sure there were scumbags who thought anti-semitism was a meaningless sideshow who were backing him right thru into WWII
― brex yourself before you wrex yourself (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:36 (seven years ago) link
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Richard-B-Spencer/Whitefish-MT/8fqyxgh
just saying.
― ian, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 20:42 (seven years ago) link
lolthx man
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 21:05 (seven years ago) link
postcard campaign.
― ian, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 21:09 (seven years ago) link
6 beds / 7 baths6,630 sqftSingle Family HouseBuilt in 2006Value: $2.43M
― qop (crüt), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 21:11 (seven years ago) link
The other side of that is that you're massively inflating the number of Neo-Nazis, which is not an act without side-effects.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 21:39 (seven years ago) link
yeah how many americans are there that identifies with being alt-right? do we have an estimate?
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
scott alexander made an estimate (ymmv obv):
The alt-right is mostly an online movement, which makes it hard to measure. The three main alt-right hubs I know of are /r/altright, Stormfront, and 4chan’s politics board.The only one that displays clear user statistics is /r/altright, which says that there are about 5,000 registered accounts. The real number is probably less – some people change accounts, some people post once and disappear, and some non-white-nationalists probably go there to argue. But sure, let’s say that community has 5,000 members.Stormfront’s user statistics say it gets about 30,000 visits/day, of which 60% are American. My own blog gets about 8,000 visits/day , and the measurable communities associated with it (the subreddit, people who follow my social media accounts) have between 2000 – 8000 followers. If this kind of thing scales, then it suggests about 10,000 people active in the Stormfront community.4chan boasts about 1 million visits/day. About half seem to be American. Unclear how many go to the politics board and how many are just there for the anime and video games, but Wikipedia says that /b/ is the largest board with 30% of 4Chan’s traffic, so /pol/ must be less than that. If we assume /pol/ gets 20% of 4chan traffic, and that 50% of the people on /pol/ are serious alt-rightists and not dissenters or trolls, the same scaling factors give us about 25,000 – 50,000 American alt-rightists on 4Chan.Taking into account the existence of some kind of long tail of alt-right websites, I still think the population of the online US alt-right is somewhere in the mid five-digits, maybe 50,000 or so.
The only one that displays clear user statistics is /r/altright, which says that there are about 5,000 registered accounts. The real number is probably less – some people change accounts, some people post once and disappear, and some non-white-nationalists probably go there to argue. But sure, let’s say that community has 5,000 members.
Stormfront’s user statistics say it gets about 30,000 visits/day, of which 60% are American. My own blog gets about 8,000 visits/day , and the measurable communities associated with it (the subreddit, people who follow my social media accounts) have between 2000 – 8000 followers. If this kind of thing scales, then it suggests about 10,000 people active in the Stormfront community.
4chan boasts about 1 million visits/day. About half seem to be American. Unclear how many go to the politics board and how many are just there for the anime and video games, but Wikipedia says that /b/ is the largest board with 30% of 4Chan’s traffic, so /pol/ must be less than that. If we assume /pol/ gets 20% of 4chan traffic, and that 50% of the people on /pol/ are serious alt-rightists and not dissenters or trolls, the same scaling factors give us about 25,000 – 50,000 American alt-rightists on 4Chan.
Taking into account the existence of some kind of long tail of alt-right websites, I still think the population of the online US alt-right is somewhere in the mid five-digits, maybe 50,000 or so.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:41 (seven years ago) link
so it is still very marginal.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
That Steve Bannon performative bit of evil reads so much like Davis Aurini:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kprBSlFRCv0/maxresdefault.jpg
― (rocketcat) (kingfish), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:47 (seven years ago) link
bannon obv successful enough that his grandiose notions about power are not just youtube larping
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:48 (seven years ago) link
yeah but his success not fully dependant on being the king of the alt-right or so. might be obvious to people like you who have (rightfully) studied the movement, but reading the news it's hard to really get the scale of the movement.
identifying how racism operates is #1 priority when it comes to finding solutions to fight it, focusing a lot on 4chan seems misguided to me rn (only accusing some media institutions here, no one in the thread).
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 22:58 (seven years ago) link
this twitter is run by, if i've read it correctly and he's not a complete fabulist, old-line republican staffer on the senate foreign relations committee. (i found his blog during the iraq war, written pseudonymously as a rolling horror document of what was happening.)
https://twitter.com/DrLeoStrauss/status/801135190806503424
Well known GOP op/pundit to me- “white genes superior to blacks ala VDARE, Franco USA over dealing with ethnics” Writes w/Bannon @ Breitbart
take it all with a big grain of salt, but he's said shit like this numerous times over the years -- that the staffers and on-the-ground operatives of the conservative movement, even back in the reagan days, had beliefs identical to the alt-right hidden just a scratch below the surface.
i think analyses like scott alexander's (AS USUAL) miss the point totally by adding up numbers online. these ideas are everywhere. that the trump moment, or the internet, or whatever it is we're living through, has shown us a bloc of young men willing to espouse them loudly if semi-anonymously in public should indicate some greater multiple of people who are nodding along.
― goole, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
Any 'alt-right' folks who are uncomfortable with being referred to as neo-Nazis are free and welcome to denounce any white supremacist or antisemitic beliefs they've been wrongly accused of harboring. But I'll just comfortably continue making my assumptions about those who run with that pack and keep shtum.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:06 (seven years ago) link
I suspect most alt-right people don't care what we call them - or if they do care it's because they find it amusing. A big piece of the alt-right is about irreverence for traditional taboos in American civil culture like the Holocaust or slavery. If they felt any kind of disassociation from the term Neo-Nazi it's probably in that they see it as an ironic moniker.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:08 (seven years ago) link
I'm still going with 'Vanilla Isis'.
― jane burkini (suzy), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:15 (seven years ago) link
It is kinda the same as people calling ISIS Daesh. Does anyone think ISIS gives af if you use one over the other?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:16 (seven years ago) link
There's a strong performative wannabe edgelord aspect to much of it, which makes online estimates really off, since you can't tell who really means it and who's just an asshole 14-yr-old tryna rile up scaredypants media types.
Not that teenage nihilism necessarily leads to this shit, but more like you how much of it is mere teenage nihilism. Hell, two decades ago, some of these assholes would be find just acquiring & trying out the Anarchists Cookbook.
― (rocketcat) (kingfish), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:17 (seven years ago) link
I always took this to be a move to deny the idea of them as actual statehood movement, rather than just a regional non-state army. Names have power, obv.
― (rocketcat) (kingfish), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
iirc it's supposedly bc daesh sounds like some other Arab word that means 'crushing underfoot' or something so it's like a pseudo-homophonic critique
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:21 (seven years ago) link
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/amp/paris-attacks-what-does-daesh-mean-why-does-isis-hate-n463551?client=safari
Apparently it also means "bigot," and they hate that part
― (rocketcat) (kingfish), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:24 (seven years ago) link
like i'm sure people who believe in chopping off the heads of infidels yezidi adults and selling their kids into slavery are v concerned about being called bigots
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
I don't know about that, these sorts of wankers tend to be pretty thin skinned.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:31 (seven years ago) link
ok but they don't have diversity and open-mindedness as their purported aspirations
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 November 2016 23:36 (seven years ago) link
What I've been seeing on american friend's facebook walls is that, post-Bannon apointment, the Trump voter's in people's lives are now very invested in a narrative where the media is smearing the alt-right and, yeah, they're very adamant that the alt-right is NOT neo-nazi/racist. Mind you I mostly doubt that the people putting forth that argument are "from" the alt-right; more likely generic Trump supporters who'd never heard of it and now have swallowed the party line on the term.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 10:03 (seven years ago) link
Is the attitude that names are names, but Breitbart is supported by the right people (IE Trump clearly trusts its owner) and attacked by the wrong people?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 10:15 (seven years ago) link
Calling the 'alt-right' neo-Nazis isn't about trying to get their goat but rather stripping the glossy finish off of their media-friendly moniker of choice. Stories about the 'alt-right' grant them an air of legitimacy, like they're just another perspective that's as valid as all the others. Beetbort is just a publication, in the words of our president-elect. Calling them neo-Nazis will hopefully dissuade some people from even dipping a toe in those shit-filled waters.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 13:21 (seven years ago) link
... how?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:12 (seven years ago) link
like when people get called racist and they go "ooooops what was I thinking sorry!!!!"
― conrad, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:17 (seven years ago) link
people who do that kind of stuff have a really, really strong need to justify themselves and get very defensive if you suggest that maybe they aren't good people. you're not talking about a bunch of '82 metallica types going out there saying "Fuck yeah, I'm evil!" ('82 metallica a good example here, actually- changed up the four horsemen of the apocalypse because they didn't want people to think they liked war. Death, plague, and famine, on the other hand...)
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:18 (seven years ago) link
people who do that kind of stuff have a really, really strong need to justify themselves and get very defensive if you suggest that maybe they aren't good people.
tbh
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
xp good people yes but their definition of good ppl isn't our definition and their definition doesn't include tolerance for divergent lifestyles
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:25 (seven years ago) link
we would like the use of the word nazi to emphasize how fucked up the person/idea the label is being applied to is, but in reality it is just a license to ignore the person applying the label
― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:31 (seven years ago) link
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, November 23, 2016 8:12 AM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You don't honestly think that the general populace are less likely to explore news outlets and political movements if they've been branded with the label 'neo-Nazi' as opposed to 'alt-right'? Granted, I'm more cynical about that assertion than I would've been a year ago but I still think it holds water.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:41 (seven years ago) link
Listened to Richard Spencer's speech and its fantastical projections of "unity" among white people, and was thinking that the great irony is that it was liberalism that allowed the creation of a "white" race that included irish people, germans, slavic people, anglo-saxons, etc., basically completely flying in the face of everything that Nazi ideology was about. Maybe Spencer thinks the horse has left the barn on that one, but his absurd concept of a "white empire" in North America struck me as, above all, childish. Diversity is messy and complicated and there are tensions, but that's just reality. There is no unified ethnostate on the planet. Middle Eastern countries are in the midst of civil wars. Israel is divided between religious and secular, mizrahi and ashkenazi. China and India have dozens of ethnic groups and languages. Diversity and tolerance aren't always easy, it's just that the alternatives are always worse.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 14:53 (seven years ago) link
You don't honestly think that the general populace are less likely to explore news outlets and political movements if they've been branded with the label 'neo-Nazi' as opposed to 'alt-right'? Granted, I'm more cynical about that assertion than I would've been a year ago but I still think it holds water.il
Well, the populace have already heard that the alt-right is a thing, so no, I don't think that - I think there's a lot of people who will hear EG "Gamergate are neo-Nazis" and when they investigate and find out that Gamergate are not in fact neo-Nazis, they will be told "See, the media is out to tar us all with the same brush". Speaking purely from the point of view of "There are a lot of people out there with some fucked up views, let's not radicalise any more of them than we have to", I don't think alt-right = neo-Nazi is helpful.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 15:38 (seven years ago) link
The guy who coined the phrase "alt-right" and started a publication with that name is a literal neo-nazi Andrew.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 15:47 (seven years ago) link
He just gave a speech in which he quoted nazi propaganda in german, called for creation of a white empire in North America, referred to whites as a "conquering people," and had an audience full of people doing nazi salutes. What is your criteria for calling someone a neonazi?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 15:48 (seven years ago) link
Those meet my criteria - you're aware that the term has drifted a bit since then?
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 15:55 (seven years ago) link
I was reading something recently where someone in a White Power fan group did one of those hokey genetic background things and found that they were significantly genetically "Eastern European" and someone else was like, "LOL UR NOT EVEN WITE" so................ o_O
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 16:24 (seven years ago) link
Divisions are inevitable. If they actually somehow "cleansed" the United States of everyone not "white" by the arbitrary new standard I'm sure that you'd see an increase in tensions between eastern and western european descent, between catholic and protestant, etc.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 16:50 (seven years ago) link
slate says alt-right still the right term to use:http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/11/22/is_alt_right_still_all_right.html
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:00 (seven years ago) link
'deplorables' might be even better tbh, really brings out the fact they're the enemies of decency
― imago, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:30 (seven years ago) link
nope nope nope
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:32 (seven years ago) link
"deplorables" was one of the biggest disasters of the campaign please never utter it again
Listened to Richard Spencer's speech and its fantastical projections of "unity" among white people, and was thinking that the great irony is that it was liberalism that allowed the creation of a "white" race that included irish people, germans, slavic people, anglo-saxons, etc., basically completely flying in the face of everything that Nazi ideology was about.
Some of those where included with open arms, some less enthusiastically.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
"deplorables" was one of the biggest disasters of the campaign
yeah should've gone harder
― nashwan, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:45 (seven years ago) link
Why not just call them fascists if alt-right is too mealy-mouthed and neo-nazi makes people roll their eyes?
*goes back to lurking*
― ultros ultros-ghali, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
bc they're not all authoritarians. some of them are libertarians.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:58 (seven years ago) link
Okay, okay, I'm willing to surrender 'neo-Nazis' if we can all agree to start calling them 'low-T betas' instead.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:58 (seven years ago) link
Insult them on a level where they actually feel insulted.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 18:59 (seven years ago) link
Re: ThinkProgress vs. Slate.
From long-term perspective, its really the risk of normalizing white supremacists vs. the opportunity of tying the entire conservative movement to this anchor in the minds of an entire generation.
― Surrounded by 61,943,670 fools (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 19:08 (seven years ago) link
One thing about the "alt right" is that they try to soften their rhetoric to bring in more suckers. Like "nationalism" instead of "white nationalism". I lurk on sites like Yahoo and I would estimate, from the language, that more than a quarter of the ideas floating around are really "alt right". Not very many conservative opinions in comment sections are moderately conservative - they're hysterical, paranoid and hateful. And the alt-right generates memes for these people.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 19:10 (seven years ago) link
sadly old lunch otm
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 19:11 (seven years ago) link
They loved deplorables. They probably wouldn't like incompetents, inferiors or impotents but such names would never catch on. But I very much doubt that kind of name calling is going to make things better.
This is science fiction writer Eric Flint on the culture wars within the genre but I think it goes for all this alt-right stuff
What is it about right-wingers, anyway? They keep accusing everyone else of being victim-mongerers obsessed with identity politics but they’re the ones who prattle endlessly about their supposed persecution [“victims are littered across the SFF community”] and nobody generates identity-labels like they do. Start with the term “identitarians” itself—did I mention the clumsy prose?—and move on to “social justice warriors,” “SJWs,” “CHORFs”, oh, it goes on and on.Those lousy social justice warrior identitarian cliquist holier-than-thou obnoxious reactionary liberal fanatics keep trying to reduce people to categories…Ah…yeah. Right.
Those lousy social justice warrior identitarian cliquist holier-than-thou obnoxious reactionary liberal fanatics keep trying to reduce people to categories…
Ah…yeah. Right.
I think that Slate article is right about how "neo-nazi" will backfire.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 20:33 (seven years ago) link
my exp with "chiraq" is that saying "dont call it the alt right" just changes the name from "alt right" to "dont call it the alt right"
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 20:45 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:58 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this distinction flips around on itself pretty quickly in this country
― goole, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 20:47 (seven years ago) link
i guess if Nazi just means someone we don't like then call them Nazis. if it means a particular racially-based authoritarian political ideology that fetishizes the 3rd Reich then there are def Nazis in the alt-right but they do not make up the entire alt-right.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 20:51 (seven years ago) link
ha by my reckoning they have a racially-based authoritarian political ideology with, like, really ~insightful critiques~ about what didn't work about national socialism
― goole, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 21:07 (seven years ago) link
This. Call them cucks or cuckservatives.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 23:56 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/colincampbell/status/801629493345583104
― soref, Thursday, 24 November 2016 04:34 (seven years ago) link
Inceletarians?
― hardcore dilettante, Thursday, 24 November 2016 04:58 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, maybe not
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 24 November 2016 07:53 (seven years ago) link
what's the downside of "white nationalists"? the fear that you legitimize white nationalism? because it's already pretty fucking legitimate. when you have half of a country who thinks it's "racist" to say that black lives matter, i mean... what the hell can you do with that?
for me the important thing is to deny people the delusion of middle ground. to establish that, for instance, mark zuckerberg is a white nationalist sympathizer.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:11 (seven years ago) link
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/new-google-chrome-extension-guarantees-users-will-never-see-phrase-alt-right-again-1048086777
― nashwan, Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:23 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 9 October 2016 02:27
― "raw buttin' these toilet seats" (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 12 October 2016 01:06
Are they embarrassed about fantasizing about being the thing they insult others for? Are they secretive about it? If the porn industry stopped making this stuff to stop being racist, would they get angry and complain about political correctness?
Call them cuckold porn fans?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:44 (seven years ago) link
Where's Wilhelm Reich when you need him?
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:45 (seven years ago) link
Reminds me of that racist guy in Boardwalk Empire who forces Purnsley at gunpoint to have sex with his girlfriend, then Purnsley kills him.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 12:01 (seven years ago) link
If the porn industry stopped making this stuff to stop being racist, would they get angry and complain about political correctness?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 11:44
And if it happens would they make Cucked By The Cucks: SJWs Fucked My Wife?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 12:32 (seven years ago) link
I don't get it 'cos the Trump administration is likely to be anti-porn, anti-civil liberties.
Anyway, I hate read RAMZPAUL. https://twitter.com/ramzpaul It gives you a good idea of where the alt-right are at. Like, he complains about "Hollywood Nazis" and thinks that a lot of them are FBI informants. Then he talks a lot about how great 1930's Germany was.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Thursday, 24 November 2016 13:14 (seven years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/gist/2016/11/ben_shapiro_on_steve_bannon_the_alt_right_and_why_the_left_needs_to_turn.html
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:29 (seven years ago) link
Thx for that Mordy, interesting.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
And that doesn’t mean that Breitbart itself has been anti-Israel—it hasn’t been. It’s a very right-wing site when it comes to Israel.
Yes. Interesting.
― nashwan, Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:51 (seven years ago) link
The danger of equating Israel exclusively with Judaism is that people miss the nuance that one can easily be pro-israel and still anti Jew.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 November 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
idk how easily but yes it's impossible
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:01 (seven years ago) link
but yes it's not* impossible i mean
I don't get this: As soon as Milo was banned from Twitter—by the way, I don’t favor bans on Twitter generally. Twitter’s a private company, and it can do what it wants, but I don’t like people getting banned on Twitter unless there’s active harassment. I think it’s dangerous territory. But I can say this: When Milo was thrown off of Twitter, 70 percent of the anti-Semitism in my feed disappeared immediately. So does he support a ban on Milo or not? Because quite clearly evidence points to Milo being a ringleader in this harassment, which is how it works. The people organizing the harassment never actively harass, they have the followers, they point in a direction, harassment ensues.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link
he's very pro free speech. he thinks milo shouldn't have been banned but he does understand why bannings are attractive since one reduced his own harassment substantially.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:05 (seven years ago) link
It's stupid, imo. Being against harassment, but only if it's active, when cyber harassment isn't active, is completely stupid. It's a willful avoidance of a difficult dillema at this point.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
I think that the left is making a huge mistake by labeling everybody on the right “alt-right.” Because what they’re doing is they’re pushing people into the arms of the alt-right. You call people racist enough, and they begin to think OK, well, who’s not calling me a racist—I’ll side with that guy.
I can only think of one reason that guy's not calling you racist.
― nashwan, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:14 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, Thursday, November 24, 2016 12:01 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
enemy of my enemy is my friend. pretty simple, no?
― k3vin k., Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link
i think if you're in favor a Jewish State it's not simple to completely reconcile that with being classically anti-semitic. the closest thing maybe is if you believe some variation of "we need to separate distinct but equally valid nationalities so jews should live in israel and whites should live in the US" but generally speaking if you hate jews you hate israel too classically despite some flirting with the opposite among nazis the party line became that israel was a base of operations for the worldwide jewish tyranny.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
There's a certain strain of evangelical GOP who wants to see all the Jews go to Israel and hey presto, Armageddon. This is why there was an Israel flag in Sarah Palin's office.
― jane burkini (suzy), Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:27 (seven years ago) link
I just meant that a lot of religious fundamentalists believe the presence of Jews in Israel is a requirement for the second coming of Jesus, which does not make them pro Jew, just pro Israel as a means to an end.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:27 (seven years ago) link
Cost!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:28 (seven years ago) link
Argh, xpost etc
ime studying this it exists alongside a broader sympathy to/with israel as it is currently constituted - as outpost of the west, steward of christian holy sites, what k3v said vis-a-vis enemy of my enemy, and jewishness as reconstituted as foundational alongside christianity for western civilization cf "judeo-christianity" - i think the only pro-israel insofar/exclusively as its a vehicle for armageddon is relatively rare.
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:30 (seven years ago) link
like to believe it's only animated by the Armageddon thing is to believe we should offer israel military aid why? to make it pleasant so that jews are more encouraged to move there?
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 November 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
Is it a sure thing that Milo directed his followers to Leslie Jones? At the time all I knew was that he wrote a negative review of Ghostbusters that was very critical of her and (deliberately?) attributed a fake tweet to her to make her look bad. I heard something about him being banned for additional reasons.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
what % of the jews must be in israel to trigger the armageddon release
― identity politics rooted in tolkienism (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 November 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
first they all have to be in israel, then they all have to jump at the same time, thereby disrupting the earth's gravitational field and kickstarting armageddon. i'm pretty sure irenaeus wrote extensively about this.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 November 2016 19:18 (seven years ago) link
When they land, all the fundamentalism that straight up to heaven.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 November 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link
Bounce straight up to heaven, fuck Trump for screwing up my posts.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 November 2016 19:42 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour, 24. november 2016 19:09 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Depends on what you mean by 'directed'. After he wrote about her, her feed exploded with harassment. There's a 100% chance that she was harassed because of the shitty things he wrote. And there's a 100% chance he was well aware such harassment was more than likely when he wrote what he wrote. Think of it like this, can anyone really be said to have 'murdered' someone, just because they pointed a loaded weapon in the direction of another person and pulled the trigger? Who knows what the intentions are?
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 22:30 (seven years ago) link
This is what Milo said
Patty is a two dimensional racist stereotype by even the most forgiving measure.Patty is the worst of the lot. The actress is spectacularly unappealing, even relative to the rest of the odious cast. But it’s her flat-as-a-pancake black stylings that ought to have irritated the SJWs. I don’t get offended by such things, but they should.Ghostbusters, the film acting as standard bearer for the social justice left, is full of female characters that are simply stand-ins for men plus a black character worthy of a minstrel show.
Patty is the worst of the lot. The actress is spectacularly unappealing, even relative to the rest of the odious cast. But it’s her flat-as-a-pancake black stylings that ought to have irritated the SJWs. I don’t get offended by such things, but they should.
Ghostbusters, the film acting as standard bearer for the social justice left, is full of female characters that are simply stand-ins for men plus a black character worthy of a minstrel show.
I don't like him and what he said is awful but I'm not sure he should have expected what would follow from writing that. Not the same as shooting someone.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:01 (seven years ago) link
No, he got banned from twitter because of what he wrote on twitter.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:28 (seven years ago) link
https://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarzel/twitter-just-permanently-suspended-conservative-writer-milo?utm_term=.bsJGqrEw1a#.teZAjyOPQL
The screenshot of Leslie's tweet seems to be fake.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:29 (seven years ago) link
I hate that he gets firstnamed (ie when your antagonist's surname is just long enough for people to not want to write it). His visible moment of confusion and panic on C4 News last week (when presented with two contradcitory statements he made) was maybe just about worth having him on.
― nashwan, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:43 (seven years ago) link
I was discussing something with ilx-milo earlier today, and felt bad for every time I've let nazi-milo be milo instead of ilx-milo.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:52 (seven years ago) link
I'm sure he posted a faked image of her tweeting nasty stuff. I don't know if he made the fake.
I guess it was that people were already harrassing her and he accused her of playing the victim, then that made it worse?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link
He'd been involved all along, and then he went and blew it up again. And it's not the first time, he is a cyber bully ring leader. He'd done it to Leslie Jones since at least december 2015.
― Frederik B, Friday, 25 November 2016 00:09 (seven years ago) link
Surely he's going to get laid less for all his shit? He's gay and into black guys particularly and he must be pushing both groups away by this point.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 25 November 2016 00:43 (seven years ago) link
xxp - nazi-milo has almost made me change my ILX and instagram names but they tie back to dial-up Internet days when it seemed completely normal to use a singer's name as a screenname...
nostalgia vs. ties to a super creepy neo-nazi
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 25 November 2016 01:19 (seven years ago) link
that last line could be a Fall song
― bernard snowy, Friday, 25 November 2016 01:31 (seven years ago) link
Still my favourite Milo herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnBLiLjBtV4
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 25 November 2016 01:36 (seven years ago) link
best milo = this quarterly journal of "strength sports"
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519K-DonFzL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51%2BWQZSFN3L._AC_UL320_SR248,320_.jpg
― soref, Friday, 25 November 2016 01:39 (seven years ago) link
Was certain someone's fave milo was https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO5A__zrNys&list=PLn6YnJtjeIabbEu762BCAdqy8oy0BQ8f0
― hardcore dilettante, Friday, 25 November 2016 05:27 (seven years ago) link
https://bluenred.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/jon-voight-catch22-1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rbeY8gb.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/0f/ee/db/0feedb52f3ff4b1c673f33260cbc031e.jpg
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 25 November 2016 06:04 (seven years ago) link
Phantom Tollbooth milo FTW.
(sorry, milo Z)
― hardcore dilettante, Friday, 25 November 2016 06:21 (seven years ago) link
might be more than compensated for by the effect of being more famous? Idk.
Couldn't show any working for this, but I've got a weird hunch this fucker's going to try and do a babyface turn in the next year or so.
― more like dork enlightenment lol (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 25 November 2016 09:59 (seven years ago) link
Before this year, I'd have said his previous work fucking over journalists at the Kernel would preclude that..
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 25 November 2016 11:25 (seven years ago) link
Milo from Bloom County for me
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f8/d1/94/f8d194e26c4ac018692e36e7cf3ce4f3.jpg
― marzipandemonium (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 25 November 2016 15:33 (seven years ago) link
^^^ yup
I don't actually know what milo y looks like and so I picture him as this milo
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Friday, 25 November 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Cq4Sau9aE
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 25 November 2016 17:57 (seven years ago) link
which is now leading down the path of watching '80s bootleg videos that appear to have been filmed on the Fisher Price PXL-2000.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 25 November 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em4SItAdd-w
^ my favorite of that genre
― flappy bird, Friday, 25 November 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
that video looks pretty great to me, quality-wise.
― xiphoid beetlebum (rushomancy), Friday, 25 November 2016 22:21 (seven years ago) link
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-alt-right-analysis-20161121-story.html
― maura, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 14:27 (seven years ago) link
White nationalists are alt-right and right-wing sites like Breitbart News and its chairman, the new White House advisor Stephen K. Bannon, are alt-lite, according to Brad Griffin, a white nationalist who blogs under the pen name Hunter Wallace at the site Occidental Dissent.“Steve Bannon is the most important figure in the alt-lite,” Griffin wrote. “We all see Breitbart as the premier alt-lite website which has popularized a diluted version of our beliefs.”
“Steve Bannon is the most important figure in the alt-lite,” Griffin wrote. “We all see Breitbart as the premier alt-lite website which has popularized a diluted version of our beliefs.”
just a little lite hate nbd
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 15:46 (seven years ago) link
homeopathic fascism
― trump le monde (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 15:50 (seven years ago) link
Just like much of the Republican Party. I mean, I'm guessing these far-right people have always privately supported the Republicans ; they're just happy that someone is openly approving of some of their policy goals. The far right is also happy because Trump knowingly sought support from open bigots. So, he's encouraging it. The only difference is that the racism is more overt now.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:13 (seven years ago) link
I've been paying some attention to guys like Steve Sailer for a few years, it's basically thinking man's white supremacy. That's what the "non nazi" wing of the alt right is about.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:28 (seven years ago) link
I thought this tweet by infowars dipshit Paul Joseph Watson, and the angry responses, was kind of interesting
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cx5cswYXcAAxpA-.jpg
https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/801179724768825345
― soref, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:32 (seven years ago) link
https://disenchantedscholar.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/altrightposers.png?w=538&h=466
― soref, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:33 (seven years ago) link
"We're against white supremacy we just think blacks have low IQs and Jews are disproportionately represented in Ivies because of tribalism"
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link
PJW doesn't care if you're alt, right, purple...
― nashwan, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
I'm all good with the infighting though
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
that twitter thread just destroyed several minutes of my life
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
Love the one dude's super-important meme showing that there's less property crime where nobody has anything useful to steal. Important anthropological info there.
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
I wonder, this cheerful rainbow coalition of hat-wearing meme enthusiasts that PJW says is the real alt-right (or "new right") - does he actually believe it? is his rejection the explicitly white-nationalist/nazi stuff just a cynical move because he realises how politically toxic it is, or is the new right thing how he genuinely sees himself? (I mean, if he believes he's not a racist then he's deluded obviously, but I kind of get the impression that some of these folk are genuinely offended at being lumped together with the Hitler fetishists, the one's who see themselves as "libertarians" or whatever?)
― soref, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:26 (seven years ago) link
good to see Stephen Kinnock reaching out to our American cousins
― brex yourself before you wrex yourself (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:31 (seven years ago) link
He can always move there when he loses his seat.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:33 (seven years ago) link
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Wednesday, November 30, 2016 12:07 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yup, property crime targets affluent areas. See e.g. this article, which says the safest Manhattan neighborhood for property crime in 2010 was West Harlem:
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20110927/upper-east-side/east-west-harlem-safer-for-property-crime-than-ues-soho
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 17:48 (seven years ago) link
Next you're going to tell me that L.A. has a higher rate of car theft than Charleston, West Virginia. Liberals!
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:31 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdcBAC6rllQ
― maura, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 18:41 (seven years ago) link
Talking to Ricky Rawls, a black guy who spends his time fucking with these people online, same one who was interviewed on Chapo last week.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 21:57 (seven years ago) link
That is horseshit about their being two "alt rights". The far right came up with the term. They just want something that doesn't involve dressing up in Nazi gear or wearing a Klan hood. What the individual upthread is calling the "other" alt-right is just GamerGate by another name. GamerGate says the same shit about being "inclusive".
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 22:03 (seven years ago) link
The most curious thing about the alt-right has got to be their love of song parodies, especially the hip hop ones.
https://youtu.be/si6VNKfZj6g?list=RDsi6VNKfZj6g
― Andrew Jackson, Wednesday, 30 November 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
Good interview with Ricky Rawls, particularly interesting about the dialectics of black cock.
― more like dork enlightenment lol (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 1 December 2016 10:18 (seven years ago) link
the point about narcissism feels true
― ogmor, Thursday, 1 December 2016 10:48 (seven years ago) link
Skipped all that stuff about Veronica tbh.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Thursday, 1 December 2016 10:57 (seven years ago) link
The Alt-right's Jewish Godfather
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 1 December 2016 13:31 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyncwxnUkAA2JYP.jpg
― mookieproof, Thursday, 1 December 2016 20:09 (seven years ago) link
love the descedents but milo auckerman was a big pioneer in terms of the angry "friendzone" geek guy persona that is a big part of all this
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 1 December 2016 20:14 (seven years ago) link
Never knew Kellogg's owned Pringles, good work Kellogg's.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 1 December 2016 23:26 (seven years ago) link
sometimes i have nightmares about that fucking frog
― Treeship, Sunday, 4 December 2016 16:10 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUGkg_U5HIo
― flappy bird, Monday, 5 December 2016 02:50 (seven years ago) link
http://splitsider.com/2016/12/adult-swim-cancels-its-alt-right-show-million-dollar-extreme/
huh
― frogbs, Monday, 5 December 2016 22:44 (seven years ago) link
good
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 5 December 2016 22:45 (seven years ago) link
What was that discussion upthread about alt-righters and 4chan users watching Star Wars and LOTR and getting all the wrong messages?
http://forward.com/news/356088/is-star-wars-is-a-sinister-jewish-plot-to-promote-diversity-alt-right-says/
“If you’re annoyed by their allegories then don’t watch it. If you’re like me you’ll pirate it at some point and fantasize about being a stormtrooper,” one commenter on Reddit said.The commenter continued: “Am I the only one who thought the Empire in ‘Star Wars’ was really cool? Kids watching ‘Star Wars’ are going to fantasize about the bad guys and buy toys of the bad guys and the narrative embedded in the film will be totally lost on them.”On the same thread, another “alt-right” member weighed in: “We know which side we prefer. Always buy the Empire Legos. Always root for Hitler. Always retell the story your own way.”
The commenter continued: “Am I the only one who thought the Empire in ‘Star Wars’ was really cool? Kids watching ‘Star Wars’ are going to fantasize about the bad guys and buy toys of the bad guys and the narrative embedded in the film will be totally lost on them.”
On the same thread, another “alt-right” member weighed in: “We know which side we prefer. Always buy the Empire Legos. Always root for Hitler. Always retell the story your own way.”
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:33 (seven years ago) link
Didnt know they had a show like that
― Treeship, Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:51 (seven years ago) link
lol "this fictional universe is against our politics, so we will ONLY consume toys and materials from the badguy team. boycott toys from the goodguy team"
― why ruin a good tradition? (Will M.), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:53 (seven years ago) link
i kinda feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with a person who looks at an extra playing a stormtrooper - actual literal cannon fodder! - and thinks 'man i wish i could be that guy'
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:54 (seven years ago) link
i wish they could be that guy too
― why ruin a good tradition? (Will M.), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:54 (seven years ago) link
good point, well made
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:55 (seven years ago) link
really tho the worst part of that quote is the incorrect pluralisation of lefo as 'legos'
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:56 (seven years ago) link
Did not realize Lefo was the singular form of Legos. Learn something new every day!
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
one lefotwo legosthree legumefour legates
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:58 (seven years ago) link
can someone confirm that with a dane? sounds wrong but ok
― why ruin a good tradition? (Will M.), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
phil d otm iirc
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
lego my eggo
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 17:13 (seven years ago) link
this is a pretty logical jump from their boiling rage at john boyega taking such a central role in the previous film + potential for interracial romance therein.
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 19:53 (seven years ago) link
I don't think they had to jump, I'd be amazed if you couldn't find those sentiments before that casting was even announced.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 6 December 2016 21:32 (seven years ago) link
― blonde redheads have more fun (upper mississippi sh@kedown)
i don't think we can afford two people named milo on our Enemies List
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
so you're advocating for the assassination of milo yiannopolous? cuz I'm okay with that
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 22:50 (seven years ago) link
the rapper milo is probably too backpacker to not be an ilx enemy as well tbh
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Tuesday, 6 December 2016 22:52 (seven years ago) link
https://youtu.be/VsoVYStL6gQ
― Andrew Jackson, Thursday, 8 December 2016 16:10 (seven years ago) link
if they don't actually physically attack the guy in that video then they can gtfo
― woke cop, boo! (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 8 December 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link
I'm not going to read through the comments but there'd better be at least 100 "aww, does snowflake need a safe space?" comments. AT LEAST.
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Thursday, 8 December 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara)
jesus bizarro my file in langley is long enough as it is. no, i am NOT advocating the assassination of anybody or any form of violent or illegal action.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 December 2016 18:03 (seven years ago) link
ohhhh, okay i got you you DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT to assassinate milo yiannopoulous *wink*
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 8 December 2016 18:06 (seven years ago) link
oh milo is harmless, he's a wannabe sacha baron cohen. he's a stand-up, but he tours college lecture halls instead of clubs
― flappy bird, Thursday, 8 December 2016 18:26 (seven years ago) link
folks who give toxic ideas a "funny" spin aren't harmless imo
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 8 December 2016 18:30 (seven years ago) link
You'd need a sniper rifle and a time machine there - the loss of him two years ago would had quite a snowball effect, now not so much.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 8 December 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
dear ECHELON, please file the preceding under bizarro's file, not mine, thank you. i don't even know who this guy is.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 December 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
if you don't even know who milo is why are you so eager to assassinate him?
― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 8 December 2016 19:04 (seven years ago) link
seriously this shit is about as "funny" as going up to a tsa agent and telling him your friend has a bomb.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 December 2016 19:17 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, guys, we're living in a 'hey journalist who posted a sarcastic and easily-disproven tweet about voter fraud, you're under investigation by the FBI' world now. Let's exercise discretion.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Thursday, 8 December 2016 19:25 (seven years ago) link
thank you.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 December 2016 20:11 (seven years ago) link
I think violence is v wrong except when it's tactically necessary tbh
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 8 December 2016 20:16 (seven years ago) link
ha what a sniveling coward
http://splitsider.com/2016/12/sam-hyde-lashed-out-at-tim-heidecker-over-million-dollar-extremes-cancellation/
― goole, Thursday, 8 December 2016 21:30 (seven years ago) link
wow really
the brett gelman interview linked from there is pretty good! http://splitsider.com/2016/11/brett-gelman-explains-his-decision-to-cut-ties-with-adult-swim/
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 8 December 2016 21:43 (seven years ago) link
feel like this whole experience is not going to moderate hyde's ideology
― Mordy, Thursday, 8 December 2016 22:29 (seven years ago) link
hyde fretting that he can't afford life insurance after all his rah-rah pro trump stuff is some sad irony
― Mordy, Thursday, 8 December 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
Kinda lol but mostly lmao
― Houston John (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 8 December 2016 22:54 (seven years ago) link
- flappy bird
Fuck milo yiannnnopoloushdhhdhs and sacha baron cohen
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:25 (seven years ago) link
Like for real, we dont need gallows humor coming from a position of extreme privilege, bile, and resentment of downtrodden folks trying to advocate for themselves.
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:30 (seven years ago) link
Goes without saying that milo is infinitely worse than cohen but insofar as they are similar -- snobs trolling the hoi poloi (sp?) -- he sucks too
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:31 (seven years ago) link
googling "tucker carlson adam schiff" basically makes it clear that rational discourse is completely dead
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:45 (seven years ago) link
What has Cohen done wrong? I don't like some of the ways he pranked people but what has he done comparable to a booster of extremists?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:48 (seven years ago) link
like, I watched it, and it's quite clear that Tucker moves the goalposts and then throws a huge tantrum, and Schiff takes it calmly at first, and then points out that Tucker is no better than a Kremlin shill working for RT. Almost all the headlines in search results talk about how Tucker DESTROYED Schiff, which I guess is an accurate depiction for a particular type of person I have no interest in ever talking to, in any context.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:50 (seven years ago) link
xp. he's an upper class christ's college graduate whose comedy has mainly been based on making fun of poors, e.g. borat and bruno were about showing how bigoted and stupid american white poors are, the brothers grimsby is vile, prole-bashing crap.
― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:51 (seven years ago) link
Noting rag xp, just wanted to go after the premises of flappy birds defense of this milo character
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:52 (seven years ago) link
Yeah good summary jim. Not comparable to promoting fascism, but still morally abominable
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:53 (seven years ago) link
borat and bruno were about showing how bigoted and stupid american white poors are
Not poors - he was mocking Trump voters
― Mordy, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:55 (seven years ago) link
But doing it through the medium of racist caricatures -- ali g and borat
― Treeship, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:56 (seven years ago) link
Brothers Grimsby was just out and out horrible no matter how it was viewed.
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 8 December 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link
oh good, ilx is piling on that fucking loathsome cunt baron cohen. continue
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Friday, 9 December 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
cultureless gurning cretin
nobody cares about sbc, jfc
― El Tomboto, Friday, 9 December 2016 00:04 (seven years ago) link
lol do I need to direct you to the Borat thread
ok maybe nobody cares about him ANYMORE but man at the time...
― Οὖτις, Friday, 9 December 2016 00:06 (seven years ago) link
yeah for example
Dan were you previously unaware that fratboys are stupid or something
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Shakey were you aware that shut the fuck up
― HI DERE, Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:49 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Neanderthal, Friday, 9 December 2016 00:14 (seven years ago) link
Tbt yaaaaass
― Treeship, Friday, 9 December 2016 00:14 (seven years ago) link
the thing is that there has been many attempts to control alt-right but everytime it was tried everything just went sideways.
― ^ 諷刺 (ken c), Friday, 9 December 2016 14:40 (seven years ago) link
to the right workspace, lol
control alt-delete much more useful
― El Tomboto, Friday, 9 December 2016 15:42 (seven years ago) link
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/09/adult-swim-fired-me-for-supporting-donald-trump-heres-how-it-went-down/
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Saturday, 10 December 2016 03:33 (seven years ago) link
read most of it, it seems like their feelings got hurt
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Saturday, 10 December 2016 03:36 (seven years ago) link
I guess that piece was meant to be a plea for sympathy? Except in actuality it succeeded in confirming, without requiring any prior knowledge of the man, that Sam Hyde is a megaturd.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Saturday, 10 December 2016 03:48 (seven years ago) link
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gne.tf.game.android
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 10 December 2016 04:10 (seven years ago) link
didn't get past the opening line of the dailycaller thing tbh
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 December 2016 04:17 (seven years ago) link
I watched some clips of this out of curiosity. It uses surrealist dystopian wonder showzen aesthetics to add zaniness to sketches that are just vehicles for MRA influenced "social commentary." Some racism thrown about for good measure as well.
Stupid.
― Treeship, Saturday, 10 December 2016 04:33 (seven years ago) link
I was worried that it was just an irreverent show that had been misinterpreted but nope. Pure poison.
― Treeship, Saturday, 10 December 2016 04:34 (seven years ago) link
The notion of a right-wing Wonder Showzen really creeps me out. I always admired that show's brazen far-left slant (even if some of the ways it manifested were pretty hard to watch)
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 December 2016 04:44 (seven years ago) link
Is anyone who's seen this show familiar with Little Britain, an irritatingly popular sketch show in, er, britain a few years back? Just wondered how it compared, if at all
― Houston John (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 10 December 2016 09:40 (seven years ago) link
Comments on that Daily Caller piece making a strong case that MDE fans aren't psychotic bigots.
― Mordy, Saturday, 10 December 2016 13:35 (seven years ago) link
Fuck this show is terrible and hateful - wish I never checked it out
― Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Saturday, 10 December 2016 17:28 (seven years ago) link
hey maybe Sam Hyde and his cadre of unfunny assholes should you now pull themselves up by their bootstraps and start their own channel. that is if they're not too busy ((()))-ifying everyone or pissing on the graves of dead children at Sandy Hook.
― will, Saturday, 10 December 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
*you know
― will, Saturday, 10 December 2016 17:48 (seven years ago) link
I think the show had a lot of potential to be a conservative counterpoint on adult swim, but the obsession with gay people / them wearing drag is... hmm... lots of lazy racism, as well. I think the bit with the wine where the guy trips the other guy's wife is a brilliant take on gaslighting. the most compelling parts of MDE's work are the satire of leftist / neoliberal groupthink and mob mentality (I'm thinking specifically of the intro to one of their videos where it's a title card that reads "we went to one of the places in America where all the stupid people are and you're not supposed to go - texas!" with a sneering pic of Jon Stewart in the corner).
"Pure poison" is such a stretch. These guys are from suburban MA. Of course they're not going to understand BLM. Of course they're into nationalism. I don't think they're these cunning racist agents, they're just products of their environment... like the underlying tone of most of their YouTube videos (wburg fashion, wburg comedy nite, etc) is resentment and rage at the arrogance of "the beautiful people." That is a necessary counterpoint to our masturbatory pop culture. But if your audience is harassing and threatening people incessantly and you do very little to stop it, I have no sympathy. It's a shame, the show could've been good and I doubt anything like it will air on AS again anytime soon.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
also, Hyde makes a good point in that piece - what is the difference between "Everyone Loves Kikes" (Eric Andre) and "Jews Rock" (MDE)?
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:04 (seven years ago) link
absolutely baffling why there aren't more conservative counterpoint shows not riddled with racism, homophobia and misogyny
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
These guys are from suburban MA. Of course they're not going to understand BLM.
dude just think about this for a minute.
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:08 (seven years ago) link
These guys are from suburban MA. Of course they're not going to understand BLM. Of course they're into nationalism. I don't think they're these cunning racist agents, they're just products of their environment.
jesus fucking christ at which point do you stop doing backflips to give straight white assholes a pass
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:08 (seven years ago) link
I'm from Alabama do I get to be a useless fuckwit and have a teevee show please
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
can only imagine how hard it must be in suburban Massachusetts cut off from all knowledge of what's been happening in the world for the last 200 fucking years
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:10 (seven years ago) link
A pass to what?
/These guys are from suburban MA. Of course they're not going to understand BLM./dude just think about this for a minute.
dude, I did. I posted it. If you're only interfacing with white people all day, chances are you won't understand BLM if your only exposure to it is on CNN or Fox or Drudge or 4chan.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:16 (seven years ago) link
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Saturday, December 10, 2016 6:07 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
dude I'm gonna give you a taste of your own medicine in a second
― banfred bann (wins), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:17 (seven years ago) link
cant believe flappy bird made a terrible stupid post
― banfred bann (wins), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:18 (seven years ago) link
Per sacrosancta humanae reparationis mysteria remittat tibi omnipotens Deus omnes praesentis et futurae vitae paenas, Paradisi portas aperiat, et ad gaudia sempiterna perducat.
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:21 (seven years ago) link
Not excusing it. It's human nature. Seems like people have a really hard time sympathizing with groups of people they never see. Just an observation. I live in a predominantly black city, BLM is necessary and obvious to me, and I've seen how ppl in white suburban enclaves don't get it at all ("why are they destroying their own neighborhood?").
How does this relate to MDE??? Well I think their racism is easily explained, lazy, and of no value. Doesn't really make a difference if it's conscious or not.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:21 (seven years ago) link
what is high-value racism
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:22 (seven years ago) link
Everyone Loves Kikes?
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:23 (seven years ago) link
Personally I don't know any African Americans, that must explain why I hate BLM so much.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:23 (seven years ago) link
Woof, I know this doesn't go for everybody. But I've seen it in relatives and people I know. Fuck me, I didn't mean to wake up and get on the pike for MDE, I just think calling them "pure poison" is a lil out there.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:25 (seven years ago) link
The show wasn't even that good, it was often diluted Tim & Eric / Wonder Showzen bs absurdity. But it was occasionally great (tripping the wife gaslighting bit). Sorry for getting sidetracked
― flappy bird, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
yeah come on guys, they're 80 proof, 90 proof poison at most. it's probably not as bad for you as drinking bleach!
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
Not going to read that Borat thread, I'm sure there are good points, there's a lot of stuff I don't like in Cohen's work but I doubt anything is going to convince me that his best stuff isn't genius and hilarious. I don't think the Ali G film was very good but the dream sequence where his dick falls out nearly broken my ribs.
And as bad a Little Britain could be there was still really good bits and pieces on occasion.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 10 December 2016 18:29 (seven years ago) link
late to the game but hyde apparently retweets pizzagate shit so fuck him eternally he's foul human garbage just like the rest of this entitled racist subculture
― geometry-stabilized craft (art), Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:06 (seven years ago) link
flappy bird, that show was extraordinarily wicked and vile. its "satire" was actively mean spirited, "skewering," for instance, women who have high expectations from relationships. stop being stupid.
― Treeship, Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:21 (seven years ago) link
watched the Wmburg street fashion ep on youtube. sorry guys not trying to be a PC cuck or anything but i honestly don't "get" it. Dice Clay is funnier than this shit
― will, Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:45 (seven years ago) link
Man. I don't want to look shame or whatever but this Hyde guy looks like the type of person I'd go to great lengths to avoid talking to.
― rudy githyanki (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:48 (seven years ago) link
the overall dark, menacing vibe of the show is truly weird
― Treeship, Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:50 (seven years ago) link
i guess it's like a tim and eric thing? maybe racists think uncanny discomfort is the same as humor
― Treeship, Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:51 (seven years ago) link
― flappy bird, Saturday, December 10, 2016 12:04 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Eric Andre is Jewish, would be one difference.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Saturday, 10 December 2016 20:59 (seven years ago) link
I was about to say...
― Mordy, Saturday, 10 December 2016 21:16 (seven years ago) link
Full disclosure I admit I lol'd at some of their sketches and I think there was something genuinely new/interesting about their thing but I'm not going to lose any sleep over racist antisemitic whiners losing their adult swim show.
― Mordy, Saturday, 10 December 2016 21:18 (seven years ago) link
can't believe
― banfred bann (wins), Saturday, 10 December 2016 21:18 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I agree with Treeship all the way (though w the caveat that his "dark, menacing vibe" makes room for how startling and oblique some of the sketches--like the wine party one flappy bird keeps referring to--can be).
But anyone saying the alt-right hype is overblown is full of shit; it's there from the beginning and only gets more apparent as it progresses
― sushi and the banh mis (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 11 December 2016 14:18 (seven years ago) link
Lots of people think this tbf, there's a case for it being humour-adjacent at the very least
― banfred bann (wins), Sunday, 11 December 2016 14:23 (seven years ago) link
Amusing myself with the thought of how this might have gone down were flappy bird still posting as 'spazzmatazz'
Sam Hyde's parody TED talk was actually funny and I don't think it offered any clues as to where he would go next, not least as he seemed to be sending himself the fuck up. Very dispiriting to learn more about what was to come.
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Sunday, 11 December 2016 14:23 (seven years ago) link
http://file770.com/?p=32437
Sciencefictionfantasyland's worst person objects to being called a neo-nazi.
Other unpleasant righty things I saw recently..
Was looking on one of the porntube type sites and saw there was an agressive blowjob clip compilation called Trump For President and a racial humiliation video in which people wave around confederate flags.
Some fantasy fan in a comments section blaming diversity and political correctness for destroying the paperback industry.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 12 December 2016 14:13 (seven years ago) link
do we need to start a new thread for "funny racists"
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 12 December 2016 15:23 (seven years ago) link
I'd like to think we've come some distance since the days when the Truly Tasteless Jokes series was available at every bookstore.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Monday, 12 December 2016 15:58 (seven years ago) link
yeah - there are no bookstores left nowadays
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 December 2016 16:04 (seven years ago) link
I anticipated that precise response, somehow.
― The Pleasure Principal (Old Lunch), Monday, 12 December 2016 16:05 (seven years ago) link
you're welcome!
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 December 2016 16:08 (seven years ago) link
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15400403_10154694087951878_6841503434688764888_n.jpg?oh=359b413fbad42106bd6828a86cc90d92&oe=58B564A4
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Monday, 12 December 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
that is extremely perplexing
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 12 December 2016 18:46 (seven years ago) link
romulus always wins
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Monday, 12 December 2016 19:13 (seven years ago) link
Sam Hyde sucks, e.g. https://youtu.be/EZ0KfHHjyrw
― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 12 December 2016 19:27 (seven years ago) link
“Where are you calling from?”
“Fall River”
― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 12 December 2016 19:28 (seven years ago) link
lmao wt actual f
http://bwog.com/2016/12/12/overseen-fake-book-found-on-stack-12/
someone put a hollowed-out fake "Tess of the d'Urbervilles" in the stacks of the columbia library, inside were "dark enlightenment" recruiting forms
― goole, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 21:02 (seven years ago) link
!!!
That depends if Adult Swim buckles under the wrath of a half million channers
― sushi and the banh mis (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 21:08 (seven years ago) link
trivial but entirely believable facts: richard spencer is shitty at basketball
https://twitter.com/BrendanNyhan/status/809112558863089664
― goole, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 19:22 (seven years ago) link
"fashwave"
https://www.buzzfeed.com/reggieugwu/fashwave?utm_term=.ayklGRxvN#.lcNwBK76R
― soref, Wednesday, 14 December 2016 22:11 (seven years ago) link
The conservative wavemaker is refreshingly candid, musing about eugenics in our booth at the achingly hip Washington hot spot, Mavericks. One senses no filter; Duncan refuses to mince words, police his language, or talk directly with Jews. When discussing racial purity, he is unencumbered by the burden of political correctness, and he makes no apologies for it. Then he proceeds to eat the rest of his fries and tuck into a three-bean salad. (“No black beans — I’m ride-or-die garbanzo.”)
Meet the Fashion-Forward Firebrand Making a Svelte Splash in Washington
― Rush Limbaugh and Lou Reed doing sex with your parents (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 22:31 (seven years ago) link
lol :(
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 14 December 2016 23:06 (seven years ago) link
Echoing what we've been talking about in a couple threads now:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/14/if-we-took-gamergate-harassment-seriously-pizzagate-might-never-have-happened/
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Thursday, 15 December 2016 20:34 (seven years ago) link
Tfuck is "Dark Enlightenment", what do they think this is, the Skyrim Asassins Guild or something!?
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 16 December 2016 00:51 (seven years ago) link
that is what they think, yes
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Friday, 16 December 2016 01:10 (seven years ago) link
Seriously. Look up Dave Aurini.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Friday, 16 December 2016 01:26 (seven years ago) link
dear god.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 16 December 2016 02:09 (seven years ago) link
Milo Y is a scumbag, pt 5745796: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/12/milo-yiannopoulos-harassed-a-trans-student-at-uw-milwaukee.html?mid=facebook_nymag
― Roz, Friday, 16 December 2016 03:15 (seven years ago) link
that guy is the most repugnant looking human i've laid eyes upon in a long, long time. how is he not constantly getting his face punched?
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Friday, 16 December 2016 16:00 (seven years ago) link
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Thursday, 15 December 2016 20:34 (yesterday) Permalink
I feel like I don't have the depth of understanding of 4chan-type harassment, but it seems very tricky to come up with solutions to this sort of thing that don't violate the first amendment or become overbroad. I mean you have this weird hybrid monster that's part defamation, part violent threats, part harassment but is carried out in this diffuse and difficult to nail down way. Many participants have plausible deniability and some are good at hiding. Somewhere in the whole thing there have to be traceable people who are deliberately planning/encouraging the whole thing, but there's also a bit of a hivemind effect at work. I hate to encourage a scenario that resembles those overly sweeping anti-gang and RICO type laws, but it also seems like there needs to be a deterrent.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 16:26 (seven years ago) link
I've never been on it but I wish Twitter would close down. Although there is a lot of sharing of important things, it often seems to bring out the worst in people, even people who I think are very good.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 16 December 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
Never been a member I mean. Of course I look at it.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 16 December 2016 16:58 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I got on relatively recently and have a love-hate thing with it. I've discovered some really amazing writers and journalists that I wouldn't know about otherwise and I find that my feed is a better way to find news and articles I want to read than facebook or just visiting sites. I also kind of hate that it's becoming more relevant again thanks to DJT.
All the alt-right heads are switching over to Gab though, supposedly. I almost want to set up a profile out of morbid curiosity.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 17:11 (seven years ago) link
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, December 16, 2016 4:57 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
There's a lot wrong with Twitter but it's still by far my fave social media. If Twitter goes away people will find a way to behave their worst somewhere else. This isn't just on the platform or twitters specific technology. It's mostly ppl' own doing tbh.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
Maybe people are just as bad or worse on Facebook, but of all the sites I have access to, people seem to be bigger assholes on twitter, and I mean people in general, not counting troll places like the chan sites or the way trolls and morons act on youtube. Twitter just radiates with cliquish aggression.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:57 (seven years ago) link
2016 was a great year for music but you'd never know it from those brainwashed critics who don't ever talk about how great meghan trainor's singles are.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:02 (seven years ago) link
oh wait, wrong thread. you know what, i'll just leave it here :)
If Twitter goes away people will find a way to behave their worst somewhere else.
Having Twitter right at hand when you are at your worst is a bit like having a loaded gun in the house when you're suicidal. There are insufficient obstacles between the urge and the outcome.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:05 (seven years ago) link
By no means I think Twitter is free of problems, and as its my second home, online, I see this stuff. But there's also so so many positives to it still. Is it my ~filter bubble~ ? I don't think so. I don't know, my experience is different.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:39 (seven years ago) link
cowardly 4chan psychos making a list of queer/poc-friendly diy spaces so they can feel like big men
http://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/103101291/diy-right-wing-safety-squads
― Long post, yet important. (crüt), Friday, 16 December 2016 21:41 (seven years ago) link
Twitter is clearly flawed but yes >>>>>>>> FB, by a lot
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 16 December 2016 21:50 (seven years ago) link
^^^ crazy talk - you can actually have a nuanced conversation on Facebook without feeling that you're fighting the medium every step of the way (or giving hostages to context).
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 16 December 2016 22:05 (seven years ago) link
One thing that's pretty bad about Twitter is the way a RT can lead to a pile-on on some rando. A few times I have deleted tweets because it was like "Why did I just randomly insult some middle-aged no-name grant writer for not being left enough?"
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 22:20 (seven years ago) link
twitter would be more like Facebook if people used it as such, i.e. primarily using privacy settings so randos can't see their updates, and primarily following people they know irl
― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Friday, 16 December 2016 22:25 (seven years ago) link
i've never had a nazi with a pepe avatar share important facts about the revised auschwitz death toll with me on fb but i've had it happen on twitter twice!
― Mordy, Friday, 16 December 2016 22:27 (seven years ago) link
Tom Ewing linked to this today and I thought it was really good.
http://reallifemag.com/apocalypse-whatever/
Apocalypse WhateverThe making of a racist, sexist religion of nihilism on 4Chan
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Friday, 16 December 2016 22:27 (seven years ago) link
Excellent essay. This Benjamin quote the author mentions is always worth returning to:
In “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction” (1936), Walter Benjamin characterized Europe as a society whose “self-alienation has reached such a degree that it can experience its own destruction as an aesthetic pleasure of the first order.” But he also warned that “all efforts to render politics aesthetic culminate in one thing: war.
― Treeship, Friday, 16 December 2016 23:16 (seven years ago) link
It's so hard to take any of this Pepe shit seriously, but I guess that makes it effective as an insidious viral meme. Its hard to Condemn something so patently ridiculous. the actual meaning is shrouded in so many layers of sarcastic abstraction as to be indistinguishable from self parody.
― dsb, Saturday, 17 December 2016 13:38 (seven years ago) link
Online harassment and firing rifles in pizza places is easy enough to take seriously.
― aaaaaaaauuuuuuuuu (melting robot) (WilliamC), Saturday, 17 December 2016 14:29 (seven years ago) link
Obviously the 1st amendment is pretty unique in its extent, but our (relatively) liberal western democracy is not radically different from, say, England's or Germany's. And yet, neither of those countries have the same freedom of speech that we have here. For example - and someone correct me if I'm wrong - in England libel laws are nowhere near as generous as they are here, and in both the UK and Germany, hate groups and hate paraphernalia can be or are often outright banned in a way that doesn't (or can't) happen here. The question I have, especially for board Europeans, is have these limitations on speech at all adversely affected life in these countries? Does the press lack the freedom to report, well, freely? Are people unable to speak their mind? Is hate speech punished? How is it punished? If someone marched in full Nazi regalia in Berlin, what would happen to them? And how has the advent of internet anonymity changed things, if at all? I'd love to know what the lack of a protection as extreme as the 1st Amendment means in practice.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 December 2016 15:44 (seven years ago) link
Yes, it was a great piece by Tara Isabella Burton. First time in ages I've admired a piece like that. Probably helps that she writes fiction for the sort of ghost story and science fiction magazines I'd read.
Just discovered Laurie Penny writes science fiction but I'm not sure I'd like her.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 15:58 (seven years ago) link
Well, you could begin by not referring to the UK as England. Libel laws in England, in this case it's appropriate, are set up to make rich people even more richer, that's why oligarchs from every shithole imaginable queue up to use the courts over here.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 17 December 2016 15:59 (seven years ago) link
From the outside looking in, the USA doesn't appear to be appreciably 'freer' than other Western democracies, it might well be, but not so's I've noticed tbh.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:06 (seven years ago) link
xpost Sorry about conflated UK/England. But anyway, you half answer my question. How do libel laws in England make rich people richer, and more pertinently, have they hindered the press?
And we do have freedoms here they lack elsewhere - just this week England banned some neo-Nazi group, which is why it was fore in mind - but I'm not sure how being legally allowed to march with a Nazi flag makes our freedoms any better, which was partly my question.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:12 (seven years ago) link
It certainly can hinder the press. I'm not sure the First Amendment is all that unique in countries with a written constitution - we don't have one.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:16 (seven years ago) link
Libel laws are a pretty terrible way to make yourself richer. Making lawyers richer, yes.
I'm generally in favour of them, though they are open to abuse. On the whole, if the press maliciously or recklessly prints something defamatory about someone that they can not defend in court, there should be a price to pay. The down side is the chilling effect where the cost of defending an action, even if there is a reasonably good chance that you could win, makes journalists more reluctant to print things they may have a reasonable belief are true. That cuts both ways though - most defamatory content is never litigated as it's not worth the risk of bankrupting yourself to fight.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
TS: freedom to march down the street with a Nazi flag vs freedom to drink a beer in public
― Transform All Suffering Into Poo (Colonel Poo), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:26 (seven years ago) link
i think our press seems to be doing just fine printing whatever it wants to tbh
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:29 (seven years ago) link
Just chiming in that the Apocalypse Whatever thing is indeed excellent
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:29 (seven years ago) link
You can't drink a beer in public in Glasgow either fwiw.
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:30 (seven years ago) link
OK erm... freedom to cross a street wherever the hell you want to?
― Transform All Suffering Into Poo (Colonel Poo), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:32 (seven years ago) link
lots of UK places won't allow open carry in the city centre at least
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:33 (seven years ago) link
which is racist really cos Poles seem to need a can of Tyskie on them at all times
pretty sure you'll go to jail in germany for walking down the street in nazi regalia
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:50 (seven years ago) link
yeah, or for putsching in a beerhall
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:51 (seven years ago) link
Na zdrowie!
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:52 (seven years ago) link
so that's how you spell that
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:53 (seven years ago) link
in theory the idea is that if you have the power to ban A there's a slippery slope that gives you the power to ban B or C which are things that maybe we don't want banned. in practice maybe it's not crazy to say that everything should be legal unless there's a specifically good case to ban it. which is why i've never found holocaust denial laws in places like germany particularly unreasonable - it's not like it's confusing why they've banned the topic, even tho as an american i want to be a free speech radical it's not like the historical circumstances of ww2 germany are therefore going to lead them to ban moon landing denial or whatever. tho even then i mean what if they're like "and bc of our history w/ communism we're banning soviet paraphernalia too." and where do the lines of either of these get drawn - i mean maybe you should be allowed to call for fascism as a system of government as long as you don't link it to the aesthetics of the Nazi party, and similarly for Communism (in this theoretical regime) as long as you're not specifically name-checking Stalin. there are just so many problems that maybe the US is right and it's best to just make it all legal.
tho of course it's not all legal here either cf fires in theaters, fighting words, incitement to violence etc
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
fwiw I think the neo-Nazi group banned this week was banned due to incitement to violence.
― Transform All Suffering Into Poo (Colonel Poo), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:00 (seven years ago) link
our freedoms are pretty idiosyncratic in the US and i assume the product of our unique circumstances. speech + religion are radically free both bc of our bill of rights but also bc they were the premise upon which emigration from England was justified. guns are radically free bc we were a colonial settler society and you need guns when you're living on the frontier, and again bc the circumstances of the birth of our country which involved an armed revolt against the monarchy. otoh the founders of this country were looking for religious freedom bc they were pretty religious which is why our abortion laws and drinking laws etc are so fucked up. (obv this is more complicated and there's legacies of stuff like prohibition which wasn't exclusively about religion.)
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:05 (seven years ago) link
It's worth bearing in mind that National Action was proscribed as a terrorist organisation, rather than simply being 'banned', that they provide combat training and that they have been linked to at least one murder.
The laws on walking down the street with a Nazi flag are fairly complex and, to some extent, arbitrary. The far right does stage protests, and is allowed to do so, but can be stopped from, for example, organising marches in Jewish areas. They would also be subject to general and very broad 'public order' laws designed to stop people causing alarm and harassment.
xps
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:05 (seven years ago) link
we famously allowed a group of neo-nazis to stage a march through an area w/ a lot of survivors just to demonstrate how committed we were to the ideal
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:06 (seven years ago) link
Mordy iirc and i can't be arsed to do the research right now but firearms were equally free in the UK before and after the War of Independence, i seem to remember UK firearms controls coming late in the 19th century tho i could be wrong datewise
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:07 (seven years ago) link
hey SV Spiked says National Action isn't a terrorist organization so i don't know man
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86aYou can't display a Daesh flag, either.
― Wes Brodicus, Saturday, 17 December 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
Ben Shapiro was on Dave Rubin's show and said Yiannopoulos chickened out of a debate with him. Also that Yiannopoulos believes all taboos should be broken to fix everything, so Shapiro asked Rubin to dare Yiannopoulos to say the N-word on his show. Rubin said he would do that but I'd be surprised if he did.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 18:22 (seven years ago) link
http://www.ligotti.net/showthread.php?t=11453
The response to me posting that article.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
he seems pretty bright - you should invite him to post on ilx. we could use some ideological diversity.
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:39 (seven years ago) link
He also called Ibrahim R Ineke (a comic artist I'm friends with) less than an ant or a fish because he's a Muslim. Advocated bombing muslims and he's into "racial realism"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:46 (seven years ago) link
He seems to identify as Persian - am I misreading him?
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:57 (seven years ago) link
I asked him now but I have no idea if he'd go for it. He does identify as Persian and he's not white.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 22:59 (seven years ago) link
ppl who identify as 'persian' include some of the world's most committed racial supremacists. they claim to be the 'master race', the 'original western race' etc
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:00 (seven years ago) link
lol @ mordy's first post there
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:01 (seven years ago) link
Yeah it's where the term aryan comes from but I wonder bout his tiepoihS bBB
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:35 (seven years ago) link
Religious beliefs
― Mordy, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:37 (seven years ago) link
It's strange, two years ago he was obsessed with eastern mysticism and now, all that stuff on the thread I linked.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 December 2016 23:41 (seven years ago) link
He said he's not joining here, he's started his anti-Islam stuff against Ibrahim and the thread will doubtless be deleted within a day. I'm amazed he hasn't been banned yet.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:02 (seven years ago) link
I wonder bout his tiepoihS bBBtoo
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:23 (seven years ago) link
ha i wonder if it's better to leave that as is without explanation & allow u to fill it w/ yr own esoteric meaning or admit that i was composing it on Zing in the rain while trying to get my recalcitrant daughter into her carseat and that was the result
― Mordy, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:28 (seven years ago) link
def thought 'tiepoih' was a cool hebrew concept. the rest is just suggest ban, baby
― illbient microtonal poetry Surbiton (imago), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:29 (seven years ago) link
Kids, eh?
― The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:29 (seven years ago) link
better than pets amirite
― Mordy, Sunday, 18 December 2016 00:45 (seven years ago) link
more like the alt-shite
― Everything Moves Towards The Sun (Ross), Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:14 (seven years ago) link
The heck is that messageboard
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:17 (seven years ago) link
It's the Thomas Ligotti forum. Ligotti is one of the biggest figures in modern weird/horror fiction and he got a book in penguin classics recently. He's probably the most famous anti-natalist and he's big on pessimism too. We discuss all that and lots of related stuff. The Persian guy (or a moderator) deleted most of his posts in the thread, so it makes no sense now.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:33 (seven years ago) link
Nick Land is also into all that stuff I think. I think those guys are few and far between but nihilist posturing often goes together with fascistic ideas.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 01:40 (seven years ago) link
Is N1ck L4nd famous for something other than being NRx/fascist?
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:09 (seven years ago) link
I think he takes some stuff from Lovecraft and Ligotti.
Phil Sandifer written a thing tying a lot of this stuff togetherhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2027287602/neoreaction-a-basilisk
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:19 (seven years ago) link
whenever I read something written by/about Land, I think of this comment left by an old collegue of his on Simon Reynolds' blog (under an profile of Land and the ccru that Reynolds wrote in 1999):
One of the last times I saw Nick was in the Coop on Earlsdon high street; in his basket were about six Pot Noodles, and a cabbage ("because I don't want to get scurvy").
http://energyflashbysimonreynolds.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/renegade-academia-cybernetic-culture.html
― soref, Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:31 (seven years ago) link
I bought that Ligotti Penguin book and couldn't make it through half the stories. I'm a big Lovecraft fan, but Ligotti lives deep up his own ass, as far as prose style goes.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 18 December 2016 02:35 (seven years ago) link
I never cared for him, either, but he seemed to be big with the Current 93/DiJ/neofolk people, who've never had any weird or unsavory political connections.
― rudy githyanki (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 18 December 2016 04:59 (seven years ago) link
That's true but Ligotti doesn't have anything approaching fascist views himself.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 12:06 (seven years ago) link
maybe not but the failure of contemporary "pessimist" philosophical voices to address the fascist implications of their conclusions makes their work markedly inferior to that of cioran.
The only remaining anti-humanist ideology is fascism. Of all existing political movements, only a fascist would dare to express the belief that "no lives matter".
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:12 (seven years ago) link
Anti-natalism is about reducing suffering til there is none left. But these people carry no expectation that it's likely to happen. No reason pessimism can't be compassionate.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:22 (seven years ago) link
oh, it's certainly possible to be antinatalist and _not_ be fascist. much antinatalism is apolitical, as politics is inherently a human enterprise. at the same time, antinatalism is a form of nihilism, and nihilism is more closely allied with fascism than it is with any other political form. there's a reason there's so much more nsbm than there is rabm.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:31 (seven years ago) link
Unlike anarchy, communism just isn't considered that cool unless you turn it into the ridiculous fascist supervillain thing. And anarchy is only considered cool when it's about chaos and irresponsibility.
It's not easy linking exciting metal imagery with responsible politics.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 13:48 (seven years ago) link
I think you're selling metalheads short to say that their ideology is based, first and foremost, around "coolness". I would argue that there is a genuine disconnect of values between the essentially pessimist philosophy adopted by metal at large and an economic/political belief system based around the worth and dignity of the working class, and that disconnect can be very clearly heard by attempting to listen to RABM bands.
If someone holds a belief system that assigns human life negative value, as many antinatalists do, they are going to face a strong temptation to implement those beliefs in a political sense. And prescriptive antinatalism is genocide.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:19 (seven years ago) link
always surprising that more antinatalists and misanthropes don't do something about the one part of the accounts sheet they do have a moral right over
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:27 (seven years ago) link
Rushomancy- Fair enough about the first part, who are the best RABM bands?
Don't know about the second part. The anti-natalists I'm familiar with probably wouldn't find that attractive and don't have the energy to get that involved in politics.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:30 (seven years ago) link
I'd want to separate anti-natalism from nihilism. While anti-natalism does assign a negative value to human life, that's compatible with assigning a positive value to human beings. Anti-natalism can proceed from a demand for human wellbeing which the world isn't equipped to satisfy. It values human beings enough not to want to inflict a painful and compromised life on them.
Anyway, it seems to me that the big fascist movements have historically been highly optimistic, not pessimistic - but optimistic towards a perverse set of goals.
― jmm, Sunday, 18 December 2016 14:35 (seven years ago) link
i honestly don't think terms like "best" apply to rabm. here's the list of rabm bands i went through:
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/WeirdoYYY/the_essential_rabm__red_and_anarchist_black_metal_/
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
"always surprising that more antinatalists and misanthropes don't do something about the one part of the accounts sheet they do have a moral right over
― Rock Wokeman (Noodle Vague)"
i suppose it is surprising if you haven't actually read any antinatalist thought. cioran for instance spends a great deal of his writing talking about the deferral of suicide. it wouldn't be correct to say he was "anti-suicide", as he fully intended to kill himself after the alzheimer's diagnosis hit, but the illness progressed too fast.
"I'd want to separate anti-natalism from nihilism. While anti-natalism does assign a negative value to human life, that's compatible with assigning a positive value to human beings. Anti-natalism can proceed from a demand for human wellbeing which the world isn't equipped to satisfy. It values human beings enough not to want to inflict a painful and compromised life on them.
― jmm"
i would agree about differentiating antinatalism from nihilism, but an essential part, i would argue, of philosophical antinatalism (as opposed to practical antinatalism, which is far more widespread and less overtly acknowledged) is that human beings fundamentally lack the capacity to create a world which can give human life positive value - that the negative value to human life is not a temporary, but an intrinsic condition. this philosophy is difficult to differentiate from nihilism.
fascism absolutely presents as an optimistic movement, but fascism, ideologically, is built on lies as well as on perversity. for the true believers, fascism is built on annihilation.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 18 December 2016 20:08 (seven years ago) link
Why would antinatalism have anything to do with fascism?
― Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 21:21 (seven years ago) link
Fascists view lives instrumentally -- that is the nature of their antihumanism. Antinatalists are the opposite of that. They look at the individual's quality of life as an indicator of its worthiness. Their position also usually doesn't involve imposing their views on others iirc. They dont tend to advocate forced sterilization
― Treeship, Sunday, 18 December 2016 21:24 (seven years ago) link
I am weakly antinatalist in that I think it's bad to be alive and I don't want to bring anyone into existence but I don't have like a political program attached to that
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 03:09 (seven years ago) link
Had a look at that RABM list and although I'm sure most of them are nice guys I get the feeling some are probably Stalin worshippers and racist too.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 21 December 2016 14:31 (seven years ago) link
can it be mere coincidence that antinatalist is an anagram of attain stalin?
― the year of diving languorously (ledge), Wednesday, 21 December 2016 14:42 (seven years ago) link
Reading thru Jon Robson's _So You've Been Publicly Shamed_, and came upon a bit in the middle about 4chan and pre-gamergate stuff. You can see where all the seeds lie that would Bloom a couple years later.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Sunday, 25 December 2016 21:34 (seven years ago) link
a friend told me about that book, gotta check it out, thx for the reminder!
― flappy bird, Sunday, 25 December 2016 22:20 (seven years ago) link
Probably worthwhile to also track down his followup interview with Monica Lewinsky
Also, this:
http://nerdist.com/nerdist-podcast-jon-ronson/
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Sunday, 25 December 2016 23:22 (seven years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/milo-yiannopouloss-cynical-book-deal?mbid=social_facebook
― akm, Friday, 30 December 2016 23:17 (seven years ago) link
http://www.avclub.com/article/walking-turd-martin-shkreli-smacked-face-actual-tu-248505
― "I must believe that my charm was not in my ass." (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 16 January 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/16/cat-fight-on-the-alt-right-neo-nazi-podcaster-mike-enoch-quits-after-doxxers-reveal-his-wife-is-jewish/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 16 January 2017 23:41 (seven years ago) link
omg the alt-right reddit thread on that is eye opening. one guy explains that the problem w/ nazis is that they didn't hate jews enough.
― Mordy, Monday, 16 January 2017 23:43 (seven years ago) link
That Salon article is amazing. I mean that's exactly the kind of shit I expect from these people tbh, just like the Tea Party stalwarts who were living on Social Security and disability checks.
― szyslakial moescreancy (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 17 January 2017 01:02 (seven years ago) link
That initial report had an air of credibility, since the identities of Peinovich’s fellow “death panelists” on the podcast had been revealed earlier in the week. That doxxing was done by members of a rival website called 8chan, who attacked TRS for supporting the principle that non-Jewish white nationalists had common interests with extreme right-wing Israelis, which is anathema to hardcore neo-Nazis and anti-Semites.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 19:22 (seven years ago) link
that enoch thing is amazing, what the hell is the motive for that guy and his wife?
― nomar, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 19:54 (seven years ago) link
it makes u wonder how much his wife knows
― Mordy, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 19:54 (seven years ago) link
lol @ all this. wow
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 January 2017 20:19 (seven years ago) link
they were making money off donations and merch sales? but yeah to be a fly in that home
― sciatica, Thursday, 19 January 2017 01:41 (seven years ago) link
https://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/the-alt-rights-meltdown-is-just-like-any-other-message-board?utm_term=.yol1ZeNqKx#.vbbBPMVxmo
At first, this disarray might seem surprising. After all, the alt-right claims to be an unprecedented political phenomenon that memed a president into office. But if you want to understand what’s happening there, it’s helpful to think about it as an internet-first creature. While it’s possible — and necessary — to view it through the lens of political or social thought that it echoes, the other way of making sense of it is to look at it as a digital community, regardless of its politics. And if you view it as an online community rather than a political movement, its trajectory starts to look very, very familiar.What we have here is a classic case of “mod drama.”As someone who has spent a lot of time taxonimizing online communities, from places like Fark to SomethingAwful, 4chan to Facebook groups for moms, I can assure you that one need only look at how other internet groups rise and fall to see what’s happening in the alt-right.
What we have here is a classic case of “mod drama.”
As someone who has spent a lot of time taxonimizing online communities, from places like Fark to SomethingAwful, 4chan to Facebook groups for moms, I can assure you that one need only look at how other internet groups rise and fall to see what’s happening in the alt-right.
― j., Thursday, 19 January 2017 04:05 (seven years ago) link
is altright on reddit always as antisemitic as it is right now or is this special bc of the enoch situation - every other post is just straight-up jew hate
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 January 2017 05:27 (seven years ago) link
also not that it needs to be said but these are some v confused ppl, even within the context of their own ideology. there's about a dozen posts on the theme of "force israel to be multicultural and open borders like the jews want to do to us." on one of the threads a poster asks the obv question uh don't leftists hate israel? the answer: leftists believe whatever the jews tell them to believe. then the guy was like well why then do the jews tell them to hate israel. someone gave him an apparently satisfying answer about how the jew inevitably subverts himself, idk, this seems like a major lacuna if you're an anti-semitic white nationalist.
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 January 2017 05:30 (seven years ago) link
just stupid idle stoner thoughts but i feel like i could cobble together a more coherent WS ideology than all of these morons. it reminds me of the alexander roda-roda quote "Anti-Semitism could really amount to something if the Jews would just take charge of it." maybe that's what enoch and his 'diversity officer' wife were up to.
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 January 2017 05:38 (seven years ago) link
Mordy otm.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Thursday, 19 January 2017 11:41 (seven years ago) link
From the looks of it, the "alt right" may create a lot of memes and pollute social media, but the bulk of Trump fanatics are from the other wing of the far right - the so-called "Patriot" movement, which is a lot bigger and which the media doesn't really cover. Those people can be every bit as racist.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Thursday, 19 January 2017 12:25 (seven years ago) link
Don't know how these guys keep it up, seems like a lot of work being such an asshole and making up crazy theories.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 19 January 2017 12:33 (seven years ago) link
Everybody's gotta have a hobby.
― hardcore dilettante, Thursday, 19 January 2017 13:40 (seven years ago) link
The irony of Buzzfeed highlighting this will not have been missed but:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-media-is-falling-all-over-itself-to-cover-the-deplorabal?utm_term=.kgDLG9epN#.luODodLwm
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Thursday, 19 January 2017 19:35 (seven years ago) link
https://mobile.twitter.com/joeyayoub/status/822597804430426113
― maura, Saturday, 21 January 2017 01:05 (seven years ago) link
A+
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 January 2017 07:58 (seven years ago) link
The one set to "Born in the USA" is quality too
http://twitter.com/prttybadtweeter/status/822620848897069056
― szyslakial moescreancy (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 21 January 2017 19:57 (seven years ago) link
Can someone make a playlist please? I can't find the Lethal Bizzle one somebody mentioned elsewhere, I found The Producers and Slayer though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW2TvVM20zE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6G4wljB4jE
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 21 January 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
Most are gifs i think.
Lethal Bizzle: https://twitter.com/mtthwtknsn/status/822706370554241024
RATM: https://twitter.com/Jacqueimo/status/822644112218353664
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 January 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
This one is quite impressive: https://twitter.com/tristandross/status/822849333141917698
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 January 2017 21:52 (seven years ago) link
unlike what most internet milquetoasts think the problem w/ punching richard spencer isn't that it's violence but that it really isn't violent enough
― Mordy, Saturday, 21 January 2017 21:54 (seven years ago) link
idk crying all over the internet about being cuffed on the ear is pretty bad optics for anyone trying to be taken seriously as the potential leader of a race war.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 January 2017 22:06 (seven years ago) link
Nah, I like the idea of living in a world where the occasional sucker punch captured on video is sufficient to remind us of the cathartic qualities of violence and its futility at the same time preferably always after the punchee begins explaining pepe the frog
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 21 January 2017 22:12 (seven years ago) link
idk crying all over the internet about being cuffed on the ear is [/s]pretty bad optics for anyone trying to be taken seriously as the potential leader of a race war.[/s]
every bully ever.
― The beaver is not the bad guy (El Tomboto), Saturday, 21 January 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link
a personal favorite: https://twitter.com/donswaynos/status/822806687207870464
― rob, Saturday, 21 January 2017 22:15 (seven years ago) link
this video has inspired me and i'm not even joking
i didn't know hitlers were this accessible and it looks like that antifa straight up peeled and got away with it
i read a wikihow article about how to punch better tonight
― why ruin a good tradition? (Will M.), Sunday, 22 January 2017 09:56 (seven years ago) link
lolololol
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/behind-the-internets-dark-anti-democracy-movement/516243/
― goole, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:22 (seven years ago) link
this is "kantbot" ranting in times square about trump and german idealism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOk6HB609po
― goole, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:24 (seven years ago) link
it's kinda wild that a philosophy of govt (authoritarianism/monarchism) that was the predominant one throughout every culture in the world for thousands of years is so marginal now that its adherents are seen as weird kooks [and apparently the most powerful man in the United States]. presumably some of this has to do w/ complete hegemony the cathedral has over the ideological overton window bc i imagine the idea that democracy is a failure and people need a strong leader to make decisions for them is probably much more popular among citizens than it appears. (and an idea so simple and at one time so omnipresent doesn't really need moldbug and nick land to write treatises justifying it in the modern world.)
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:28 (seven years ago) link
I really don't think that idea was ever omnipresent. Took a heck of a lot of violence to stamp out all other ideas all the time.
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:55 (seven years ago) link
how is it arguable that monarchism/authoritarianism has been the most common form of government in human history
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:57 (seven years ago) link
lol @ that tumblr in the article.. what a bunch of boring dinks http://post-anathema.tumblr.com/
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:58 (seven years ago) link
Video was hilarious. Is that really Kantbot?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:59 (seven years ago) link
kurt otm these guys sound as delusional and cloistered as the worst lefty academic
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:01 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις, 10. februar 2017 22:57 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's not what I'm arguing at all. But I'm saying that that was the case, not because most people wanted it to, but through incredible violence. Most Trump voters don't want an authoritarian leader to take care of them as well. They want him to take care of *those people*, you know.
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:08 (seven years ago) link
it's interesting bc during the english civil war by far the predominant revolutionary perspective was monarchist w/ reform and those who were anti-monarchy were the edgy kooks marginalized from the central discourse. even during the french revolution it takes some time to go from constitutional monarchy to no monarchy (and even then they couldn't help but get back in bed w/ an authoritarian almost immediately, and then following him straight back to the monarchy)> and the french revolution is really the genesis in western civ of things like universal emancipation going mainstream! i've been thinking a bit about this recently but it seems pretty evident that there was a political breakthrough in terms of our expectations for the correct organization of society that took a long time to ferment before hitting a critical mass. i always wondered what the deal was with brunelleschi's innovation in perspective - like how could it be that in thousands and thousands of years of human art no one put it together and then suddenly in the 15th century this guy figures it out and boom now a five year old can draw a horizon. (iirc martin jay writes about this kind of breakthrough of human thought in... Songs of Experience i want to say?)
and now we can't go back (or at least not w/out, as Nick Land describes it, the sisyphean task of rolling back democracy) - the switch has been flipped.
---
the atlantic piece is kind of a shit article sadly proving the nrx ppl right - it treats them like a freak show when their ideas, while wrong, are worth engaging w/. i think i understand politics better today for having worked through some of moldbug's provocations and figuring out where they work and where they fail. at the v least i don't understand why ppl are into having their opinions regurgitated back to them - listening to things that agree w/ what you already believe, reading things you already believe, etc. isn't it boring engaging w/ work that you could produce yourself from scratch? i'd always prefer to read something i never could/would have written. (tho tbph nrx turns out to be pretty superficial once you scratch the initial insights about cultural hegemony - there isn't much /there/ there in terms of a real ideology. presumably one reason no one wants to be interviewed is bc v few of these ppl feel confident engaging in discourse that might challenge their beliefs / force them to convince an outsider. nick land seems bright enough tho and incidentally also seems to be the least personally attached to the ideology casting it more as an anticipation of where a segment of our population is heading - he predicted trump long before most ppl did and unlike scott adams he's not a complete moron.)
(nb after i first wrote this last paragraph half an hour ago i went back to the dark enlightenment piece and i want to modify this last bit at least bc i do think Land does identify to a large extent w/ this kind of neo-libertarianism but at the same time he's careful there to create space between what ppl want and what he believes which is left off the page - i think he considers a lot of the nrx project quixotic at best tho clearly he engages w/ it bc there's some kind of empathy/association there)
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:10 (seven years ago) link
yr misreading Mordy Frederik - the idea was omnipresent = everybody knew what it was and understood it (whether they wanted it/consented to it is immaterial)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:19 (seven years ago) link
even during the french revolution it takes some time to go from constitutional monarchy to no monarchy (and even then they couldn't help but get back in bed w/ an authoritarian almost immediately, and then following him straight back to the monarchy)
This is a pretty inaccurate precis of the French Revolution tbh.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Friday, 10 February 2017 22:22 (seven years ago) link
tbph probably most ppl didn't even consider that it was something you could want or not want or consent to etc since most ppl just lived within it like a fish in water. and like i mentioned the ppl who began to roll the boulder of emancipation down the hill took their time to get onboard w/ eliminating authoritarianism altogether. look sometime at all the democracy-skeptic quotes from the US founding fathers.
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:23 (seven years ago) link
xp which part do you take exception to? it for sure started as a constitutional monarchy and from what i've read v few ppl in 1789 were thinking that they were going to abolish the monarchy altogether. or do u take exception to calling the rise of napoleon jumping back into bed w/ an authoritarian?
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:26 (seven years ago) link
like obv this stuff was much more in the air in 1789 bc this is what the revolution radicalizes into (even if it can't sustain it for v long), but for a more dramatic example look at the english revolution where even the break in monarchy ends up being a pseudo-authoritarian regime (complete w/ hereditary rule!) and ppl like the levelers and diggers are def marginalized compared to the ideologies on the minds of most ppl involved in the revolution.
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:27 (seven years ago) link
I wasn't sure which authoritarian you were referring to tbh, I thought that might have been Robespierre, but, in any case it's pretty broad brush stuff to say 'they couldn't help but get back in bed w/ an authoritarian almost immediately'. Of course NOT ending up with Cromwell was what French revolutionaries were obsessed with up until they got shot of Robespierre.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Friday, 10 February 2017 22:30 (seven years ago) link
right i didn't men robespierre i meant napoleon and then of course immediately following him they bring the bourbons back!
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:31 (seven years ago) link
Well, that's France for you, never a dull moment!
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Friday, 10 February 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
But the thing is, the members of parliament in Britain weren't exactly serfs either, they were quite depended on the societal system as well. Go ask the peasants being squeezed by everyone above them whether or not they liked the system. There were republics and democracies in antiquity, who knows what on earth happened in Italy and Germany in the middle ages up through the renaissance. I don't buy the idea of democracy as a 'switch' - and it works both ways: the founding fathers were slaveowners, the French who wrote of the Rights of Man still wanted to keep Haiti as a slave system, and nobody thought women should be included. Distribution of power has been a gradual process, and it does go back and forth.
And I don't get why I'd need to read neo-reactionaries to read something different and provocative. I could read the historical classics for that. Rousseau rubs me the wrong way, as does Nietschze. Celine, d'Annunzio, de Sade. But what little I've read of moldbug has been so riddled with historical mistakes as to be useless.
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link
who knows what on earth happened in Italy and Germany in the middle ages up through the renaissance.
yes who indeed wtf
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:50 (seven years ago) link
"we may simply register strong agreement with the Marxist thesis that a vigorous and independent class of town dwellers has been an indespensable element in the growth of parliamentary democracy. No bourgeois, no democracy"
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Friday, 10 February 2017 22:51 (seven years ago) link
xp. yes, quite, lol
I seriously doubt even the most knowledgeable scholar can keep that shit straight ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:54 (seven years ago) link
as usual, whatever point you are trying to make seems both incoherent and irrelevant
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 22:57 (seven years ago) link
Perhaps it might help if you didn't pull one sentence out from the middle of it?
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:03 (seven years ago) link
But the thing is, the members of parliament in Britain weren't exactly serfs either, they were quite depended on the societal system as well.
why is this relevant
Go ask the peasants being squeezed by everyone above them whether or not they liked the system
We can't, they're all dead and generally didn't leave behind twitter feeds.
There were republics and democracies in antiquity,
all of them involved strong heads of state and severely limited the franchise, and even then they tended to be the exception, not the rule, as forms of government. The French and American Revolutions built on these examples, but were also radical departures. This is fairly conventional wisdom.
who knows what on earth happened in Italy and Germany in the middle ages up through the renaissance
there are p clear (if complex) historical records of what forms of gov't existed in these places during this time. They did not have republics or democracies in any real functional sense.
I don't buy the idea of democracy as a 'switch' - and it works both ways: the founding fathers were slaveowners, the French who wrote of the Rights of Man still wanted to keep Haiti as a slave system, and nobody thought women should be included.
OK sure, in this respect they were v much like the republics/democracies of antiquity that they looked to for inspiration. But they *were* broader in terms of the voting franchise and various other enumerated rights. This is what Mordy was getting at by specifically tying the ideas of the french revolution to the (yes, revolutionary) idea of universal emancipation. Which was definitely not "mainstream" before then.
Distribution of power has been a gradual process, and it does go back and forth.
No one's really arguing this point. But you seem to want to jump on Mordy for positing the French Revolution as a significant turning point, even though it's undeniable that it was just based on how it affected other subsequent developments, how it impacted the US, etc. This stuff is v well documented, it isn't controversial.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:13 (seven years ago) link
Frederik will tear us apart, again ;_;
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:30 (seven years ago) link
― Frederik B, Friday, February 10, 2017 10:54 PM (forty-one minutes ago)
lol at this
who even knows what quantum mechanics is, i seriously doubt even the most knowledgeable physicist can keep that stuff straight
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 10 February 2017 23:40 (seven years ago) link
Shakey, I think you're simplifying history. Massively. What Mordy was talking about wasn't just political history, but history of mentalities - and I have studied that, for years, the Annales shit, Roger Chartier, Carlo Ginzburg, etc. While the Revolutions are massive turning points, it's not as if they just all of a sudden made people think differently. But the people who drove them were, as you say, the ones who left twitter feeds. But what were the thoughts of the people in the many, many peasant revolts, or the millennial movements, or the religious 'fanatics' like the cathars?
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:47 (seven years ago) link
When I've read the testimonies of medieval peasants - and is it really mostly 'testimonies', because they've mostly left written records from when they were dragged into court - it's so often surprising the open mindset they had. Which, of course, was why they got in trouble with the law to begin with.
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:49 (seven years ago) link
I also kinda think most scholars of quantum mechanics would agree they still don't understand what it 'is' as much as what it 'does', btw ;)
― Frederik B, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:50 (seven years ago) link
― Οὖτις
thank christ for small favors
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Friday, 10 February 2017 23:51 (seven years ago) link
ok Frederik so it seems like yr real issue is w this:
the french revolution is really the genesis in western civ of things like universal emancipation going mainstream ... it seems pretty evident that there was a political breakthrough in terms of our expectations for the correct organization of society that took a long time to ferment before hitting a critical mass
and specifically with the "mainstream" and "critical mass" terminology, which is doing the heavy lifting here
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:57 (seven years ago) link
I assume your explanation re: why democracy flowered after the French Revolution has nothing to do with its ideas becoming incredibly popular
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 23:59 (seven years ago) link
See, I don't even know what you're talking about? Where did democracy flower after the French revolution? Did any country become democratic between 1789 and, I don't know, 1848? (Really, I'm asking, I don't know)
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 00:10 (seven years ago) link
The reason I jumped into the discussion was because it seemed to me that Mordy suggested authoritarianism was popular as such today, and had been in the past. When really, feudalism, monarchism, had to use incredible violence to keep the plundered population in check. And probably the main reason that I find the neo-reactionaries to be completely useless is that they either ignore, or lie, about this. At least in what I've read.
It's like with communism: At this point you can't ignore the question of political violence, which is why Slavoj Zizek is worthwhile while JacobinMag is worthless.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 00:21 (seven years ago) link
i think you misunderstood what i was saying.
it's kinda wild that a philosophy of govt (authoritarianism/monarchism) that was the predominant one throughout every culture in the world for thousands of years is so marginal now that its adherents are seen as weird kooks
i was merely noting that for an ideology (authoritarianism) that defined most of human existence, it's interesting that today in the West ppl who advocate for it are considered marginal figures. that is all.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 01:05 (seven years ago) link
i think maybe you're not sure about the meaning of omnipresent?
what does its omnipresence have to do with the violence it inflicted?
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 01:06 (seven years ago) link
mordy, nick land's twitter account is a lot less uh subtle about where he actually stands than his theoretical texts are - https://twitter.com/Outsideness
tho he does seem to have brought in more slipperiness there too lately. some reflective older tweets - https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/498491899016003584 / https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/498147406593028098 / https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/497084751400796161
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 11 February 2017 01:24 (seven years ago) link
the racism/race realism probably the least interesting thing about neoreactionaries and something they share w/ the populist nativists that they despise
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 02:05 (seven years ago) link
Isn't it essential to their program? They want to defeat the idea of universality.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 02:27 (seven years ago) link
I'd want to learn more about what, if anything, Bannon takes from Moldbug. He is really smitten with this idea of a grand clash of civilizations, and I think he sees in this conflict an opportunity for "the West" to assert itself as a particular ideological force. His ideas aren't too far from Houellebecq's -- in "Submission" France dissolves because it doesn't stand for anything, it doesn't offer people some concrete explanation of who they are and what they should do. I think that's how Bannon sees the liberal West, especially America, whose identity is supposed to reside in its very pluralism.
In any case this is all extraordinarily dangerous stuff. We live in a pluralistic world; any political program that tries to turn back the clock on that by inflaming long simmering cultural conflicts is a program of destruction. I don't know how the left will overcome it but I think it should start with affirming universality as a positive value in clearer, starker terms. They need to have a strong narrative if they're going to go up against Bannon.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 02:36 (seven years ago) link
it's certainly an important feature (not sure that it's 100% necessary to the core idea which is anti-democracy and pro-authoritarian - we can all be equal under the caesar) and certainly there are cruder and more sophisticated ways of defeating universality. when they engage in the basest bigotry masquerading as an important part of their ideology then it's the clearest that it's just a sop for their baser instincts. not all cultures are the same and some have more successful memes than others = something that is obviously true to everyone but the most ideologically committed liberal. hurr hurr jews love money = like gmafb i need to read a thousand pages of neoreactionary thought for something i could get from a 4chan meme?
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 02:42 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I think a lot of this is a kind of pseudo-intellectual cover for racism/base tribalism. But that's what reactionary politics very often is. In the Magic Mountain there is a character called Naphta who attacks humanism on the ground that it deals in ideals, not reality, that nothing in its message speaks to people's emotional needs. His actual ideology was all over the place, including some far right ideas, some anarchistic ones, and involving a veneration of the Gothic middle ages, but the main current was just a general resentment of the kind of optimism one would need to believe that a successful society could be built on the basis of freedom and equality.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 02:51 (seven years ago) link
That's how I see Bannon -- I'm not sure he knows what kind of world he wants, just that he is dissatisfied with this one. It's an incredibly childish way to look at the world, but one that is obviously shared by the throngs of people who voted for Trump because they craved "change."
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 03:11 (seven years ago) link
http://jezebel.com/check-out-these-dribbling-nazi-milkboys-1792240299
― j., Saturday, 11 February 2017 03:45 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, 11. februar 2017 02:05 (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Sorry if I read more into it than there is, but this just seems really uninteresting and basic. Authoritarianism as practiced was never popular, and rested on extreme suppression and violence, so it's really not surprising that once people got rid of it, it became marginalized. It's a bit like asking why nazism was marginalized in Germany so quickly after it had been law of the land for years. It's really not surprising at all. It failed, it was marginalized.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:02 (seven years ago) link
Nazism was fairly popular in Germany, wasn't it? and there were polls taken in West Germany in the 1950s still showing a pretty high level of support for Hitler and nazism
― soref, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:25 (seven years ago) link
You're not seriously arguing that nazism wasn't marginalized after the war, are you?
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:31 (seven years ago) link
it was marginalized after the war, but I don't think it's correct to say it "was never popular" or that its maintenance between 1933-45 rested solely on "extreme suppression and violence"
― soref, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:39 (seven years ago) link
Look, not to turn the tables, but a lot of you guys don't really live in former feudalist monarchies. I'm guessing you don't read the same history books in school that for example Danish kids does, don't walk around monuments to the freeing of the serfs as in Copenhagen.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:42 (seven years ago) link
soref, that 'solely' you've inserted into my sentence really does a lot of work there ;)
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 11:43 (seven years ago) link
Authoritarianism has been popular, and welcomed with open arms, in the past and will be again in the future.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 12:35 (seven years ago) link
Sorry if I read more into it than there is, but this just seems really uninteresting and basic.
Ffs dude it was a throwaway line in a larger post I'm not the guy who spent his time trying to disprove it
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:07 (seven years ago) link
Authoritarianism seems attractive to some people when, for whatever reason, they don't feel democracy is working out for them. Likewise demorcracy seems attractive to people when they are being crushed under the yoke of authoritarian rule. It's harder to stir those democratic feelings, however, in people for whom the authoritarian rule seems to be working out just fine.
In America today many people were attracted to the idea of Trump going into the White House, kicking out a bunch of Washington dead weight, and acting unilaterally to close the borders, expel immigrants, and put people to work. He ran as an authoritarian -- his two messages were 1.) everything is a mess because the people in charge are either indecisive idiots or corrupt phonies who don't have the best interests of the nation at heart and 2.) if we don't act now "we won't have a country anymore." This was a popular message. People liked the fact that he wasn't deferential to the norms that sustain democracy, like tolerating the free press or refraining from propagating conspiracy theories.
If Trump weren't incompetent I believe his supporters would still be enthusiastic about his style of governance. Under an authoritarian regime, only *some* are repressed, and the kinds of people who like authoritarians aren't the type to feel concerned about the rights of others.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:09 (seven years ago) link
Fred is right that old forms of repression -- slavery, serfdom -- aren't popular anymore, and people would never consent to be slaves or whatever. But that's not what they think will happen to them under the kinds of authoritarian regimes that attract them.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:15 (seven years ago) link
Fred is right that old forms of repression -- slavery, serfdom -- aren't popular anymore, and people would never consent to be slaves or whatever.
this just seems really uninteresting and basic
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:19 (seven years ago) link
Yeah but thats what he is arguing for whatever reason
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:20 (seven years ago) link
I tried reading part 1 of the Moldbug open letter again. I'm suspecting fairly strongly that he is just not a very intelligent person.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:45 (seven years ago) link
I feel the same way about Bannon. But I think with both of them the tendency to speak of history in broad strokes, identifying general patterns, can be seductive to people who aren't usually exposed to that kind of thing. Like there is no question in my mind that Donald Trump believes Steve Bannon is the smartest person he has ever spoken to.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:48 (seven years ago) link
Hey, sorry guys. My bad. I tried to see interesting opinions where there really were none. It really just was a bunch of Americans trying to say how Europeans feel about our past, based on having listened to the Revolutions podcast. And I shouldn't have engaged with this worthless discussion. Sorry, my bad.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:49 (seven years ago) link
Oh shut up, Fred.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:50 (seven years ago) link
xp i disagree. he says things that i know are wrong but he also says things that are interesting + frames things in provocative ways. tbh i'm surprised when someone reads open letter and comes away thinking it's just the ramblings of some dumb dude. xxp
stfu fred. last night i almost wrote that i don't understand why you can't comprehend a banal one line i wrote but then i felt bad and didn't post it. now i feel less bad. you spent hours arguing that authoritarianism wasn't omnipresent throughout history bc the romans had a senate, we don't know what kind of government medieval europe had, and the french revolution wasn't very revolutionary. you're a fucking moron just take your lumps and gtfo until you have something to contribute.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 13:50 (seven years ago) link
I said I'm sorry. I thought you couldn't seriously just mean that authoritarianism was widespread, because that would be the most pointless, stupid, worthless observation ever made. You must have been trying to say something about the idea of authoritarianism. You weren't. You were just writing absolute rubbish, and I read too much into it. Mea culpa.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:00 (seven years ago) link
wtf why are you so fucking dense
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:03 (seven years ago) link
i said that at one time in history authoritarianism was so omnipresent that even the revolutionaries could only conceive of a constitutional monarchy as the way forward for emancipation and that in contrast today ppl who advocate for authoritarianism are painted as kooks in mainstream magazines. it wasn't a particularly exciting, original, or adventurous remark but it was just one line and i was making a larger point about sea changes in human ideology. somehow from that you got that i was making some point about how everyone used to love authoritarianism bc, and tho you won't admit it, it appears you didn't know what the word omnipresent meant. which is fine, english isn't your first language. but instead of just saying oops you've now doubled down and shit yourself over and over in order to avoid admitting to a very obvious and not v embarrassing truth about yourself.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:05 (seven years ago) link
as usual the coverup is worse than the crime and still instead of coming clean you're trying to turn it around as though i should be embarrassed that my banal point (that authoritarianism was widespread) was in fact banal. that was the fucking pt you tedious dullard.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:07 (seven years ago) link
Mordy, your larger point about 'sea changes in human ideology' is horseshit as well. I misunderstood what you meant by 'omnipresent', sure. But you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about, and you're arguing about European history with a European history major, and clowning him on whether or not he speaks English as well as you do.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:10 (seven years ago) link
i'm not clowning you is the thing. i assumed this was the communication problem. it could've been cleared up simply but noting that but instead you've tried to make it into an argument about something else entirely. i really don't think it's embarrassing that someone with english skills as good as yours doesn't know a particular ten dollar word. i think it's embarrassing that once that became clear instead of just copping to it you've tried to cover up for it. i can't even figure out what new argument you've tried to shift to except that you're an expert in european history and i'm not which okay who the fuck cares? like you say, i've said nothing controversial only banal and uninteresting so why do i need a major in european history to say such things? i think you're in a mode of argumentation but your argument got pulled out from under you but instead of moving dispositions you're still stuck in an argument. the argument, now gone, all that is left is your umbrage but contentless and empty of meaning. just shake hands like a grown-up and move on. god.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:15 (seven years ago) link
by* noting that
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:16 (seven years ago) link
Fred you gave the declaration of the rights of man to a 15th century French person do you think he would find the ideas familiar and logical, the kind of thing people tend to think but don't dare express? Or do you think he would say that this is a really different way of conceptualizing the relation between man and the state and I haven't seen much else like it before?
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:19 (seven years ago) link
* insert "if" bw "Fred" and "you"
This thread turned epic? Why is there - is that poop? How did it get on the wall?
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:20 (seven years ago) link
and btw for an expert in european history you don't have much to offer on the subject and apparently aren't familiar w/ anything within the medieval european history discipline which even an ignoramus like me knows is prolific from studying medieval european jewish history. you're derisive about mike duncan's podcast, a pretty bright and curious guy, but you might benefit from reviewing some of these topics yourself. finally, even though your outrage is completely asinine and misplaced, maybe even this can be a learning experience because now you know how americans feel when you pontificate about american politics despite having only a poor grasp of them.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:20 (seven years ago) link
anyway i've enjoyed this little spar if only bc it has made me feel nostalgic for classic nakh takedowns which i'm clearly only able to mimic in their most superficial ways. u deserve far more acerbic mockery than i'm able to dredge-up.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:23 (seven years ago) link
Any continents you're not an expert on, Fred?
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:29 (seven years ago) link
― Treeship, 11. februar 2017 15:19 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I depends on the person, especially his or her 'class', but most of the peasant population would probably find it extremely complex and convoluted, and not that important to his or her own existence. If you asked him or her whether or not he or she wanted to radically change the system away from it's authoritarian ways, I'd suspect most would say yes. And they quite often did try and change the system, and was struck down with extreme violence.
I've never said I'm an expert, btw. Most of what I've said is things I learned in middle school in Denmark. But I've taken university courses in South American, African and Asian history as well, yeah. As I said, I'm a history major.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:33 (seven years ago) link
I do like Mike Duncan, btw. Listen to him myself. He also does explain that the people he talk about in England and France aren't that representative of the entire populations of those places. Something I think is lost on quite a lot of you. As Shakey said, they're the ones with twitter feeds. But if anybody wants to read what a simple medieval miller thought, go read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms, btw. A masterpiece of history of mentalities.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:36 (seven years ago) link
ffs u're a pompous little shit. i read cheese and the worms in college as well as the night battles and ecstasies. you still have yet to say anything that isn't either a) needlessly pedantic and wrong or b) self-aggrandizing and tedious.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:38 (seven years ago) link
Fred I know most people were illiterate and unversed in political theory in medieval and early modern Europe.
The french revolution was more than a peasant uprising though. A lot of the force behind it was fueled by economic grievances, but the ideology aimed at transforming the entire society according to universalist principles. That's why it was a revolution.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:41 (seven years ago) link
do you even know what you're arguing? you're all over the place. you're surely not arguing that there wasn't a major shift in the conception of human rights over the course of modern european history. even you are not dim enough to think that's the case. instead you're trying to make some case that peasants in authoritarian europe didn't like being ruled by a king. of course if they thought about how much they disliked it at all (for someone who thinks he understands mentalities you sure don't get how ppl become inured to the conditions they're born into) they certainly didn't conceive of how the system would be radically altered years later. but even then - no one said they liked it or was discussing their opinions on the topic at all. i just don't know what to do w/ you. it's like arguing w/ a college freshman who is way too infatuated w/ his own brilliance despite knowing v little. xp
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:41 (seven years ago) link
you still have yet to say anything that isn't either a) needlessly pedantic and wrong or b) self-aggrandizing and tedious.
― Mordy, 11. februar 2017 15:38 (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And neither has anyone else in this thread. And neither has Mencius Moldbug. So the whole thing is fucking stupid.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:42 (seven years ago) link
"do you even know what you're arguing?"
No I don't. And I've admitted to that, repeatedly. The problem is, I have no fucking idea what you're arguing either, and I suspect you don't either.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:43 (seven years ago) link
I thought I knew what you were arguing, turns out I was wrong. But you've substituted my misconception with nothing of interest, instead you're just extremely agressive and seems obsessed with whether or not I understand English correctly.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:44 (seven years ago) link
... ok whatever.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:45 (seven years ago) link
Eventually those ideas became second nature even to everyday people. Ask a Trump supporter whether the president should be beholden to the rule of law. They know that they are supposed to say yes, even if in practice they want Trump to steamroll over people. Authoritarianism is taboo now -- when it emerges it tries to disguise itself by using democratic language -- but before the age of revolutions there was no need for that, authoritarianism was in itself taken to be an acceptable, even obvious way to organize society. People did not believe that sovereignty resided in "the people" in past centuries; now they do. The toothpaste is out of the tube. That was Mordy's point. (If I understand it correctly.)
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:46 (seven years ago) link
Sorry lol xposts to my last post
yes u do. it really was not a v complex or interesting pt as i've said so don't understand why we had to spend so much time on it.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 14:46 (seven years ago) link
Treesh, what you write still don't answers my main question about this whole discussion. I think it boils down to what you mean by "authoritarianism was in itself taken to be an acceptable, even obvious way to organize society". It can mean two things 1) Authoritarianism was called what it was, and wasn't dressed up in democratic language. Which is banal and pointless, but ok. Or, what I thought Mordy meant 2) That the acceptability of authoritarianism was uncontested and natural, which it wasn't. It rested on violent repression and extreme ideological indoctrination through the church.
And I think from where you sit, you see the reason people don't like authoritarianism anymore to be because of the adaptation of the universalist principles from the French revolutionaries, and not the historical memory of the extreme brutality of the former regimes. And I'm telling you, as a European, I didn't learn about the fancy scrolls from US and France in middle school, but the history books were filled with drawings of executions, burnings, torture, etc. It's much more practical than philosophical.
And I might be wrong about what you think.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:04 (seven years ago) link
I think what you're missing Fred is that when you're born into authoritarianism it is all you know; your political imagination is stunted. So even if you hate the government maybe you wish you have a more enlightened ruler but you don't even have a conception of universal suffrage to yearn for. But once such a thing is implemented - slowly and in stages that phased out the authoritarian - the imagination is expanded. The acceptability of authoritarianism /was/ uncontested and natural. You're confusing resisting say a religious hegemony (like say Jews in Catholic Spain or Catholics in Protestant UK) or resisting onerous taxes or resisting some other malady of authoritarianism, with resisting the very concept of a central monarchy itself. The latter took an ideological sea change to happen. It was not, as your suggesting, fermenting on the minds of all peasants laboring under oppression. They bemoaned the oppression but they didn't conceptualize this new way of organizing society. I don't think this is particularly controversial even.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:11 (seven years ago) link
robin hood just wanted a better king
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:14 (seven years ago) link
Now once we've passed through this moment and our imagination has been expanded we see Democracy as the best way to address the crimes that seem endemic to [particularly unenlightened] authoritarian rule. The novelty of the alt-right is that they don't couch their authoritarian inclinations within the language of Democracy but challenge the idea that Democracy itself has actually given us the liberation from the sins of the monarchy that we believe it did. This is where, incidentally, their biggest historical misunderstandings arise - they cherrypick data and fail to account for variables in order to a paint a picture of a monarchical England that had less crime and better education than we do today. Fine, that's why they're wrong. But in challenging the results of Democracy (and imho more successfully challenging the pieties of the liberal/'brahmin'/cathedral hegemony) they open up a space to note that these ideologies are only valuable in-so-far as they mitigate the excesses of these forms of government. Moldbug and Land happen to think libertarianism (or idk whatever libertarian authoritarianism they've tried to flesh out) would do a better job safeguarding human rights and welfare than our current system. I disagree with them. But I think they're often right when they note the places that our liberal democracies fail to do an adequate job. We haven't reached a perfect civilization yet - this is just a stopgap.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:18 (seven years ago) link
xp he definitely did! he was a supporter of richard the lionheart!
I know I've seen all the movies
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:20 (seven years ago) link
I'm still just going by part 1 but: the Brahmins/townies stuff is pretty unconvincing if you don't already buy that view of the world (or at least the US), unsupported with any actual data, and imo just wrong. (I could go point by point but I suspect you might agree with on this part of it.)
His three questions that are supposed to start poking holes in the inflatable flying pigs of progressivism are... not very well-formulated ("what's up with the Third World?")? I'll try to engage with them, though: first, the quote about malaria is taken out of context. The Times author gave other significant reasons why malaria made a comeback, aside from the end of colonialism. It also just seems like a somewhat poorly conceived sentence on the part of a science reporter who does not specialize in politics or history. If Moldbug's point is that violent conflicts, poverty, corruption, and poor medical care were not problems under colonial rule, I think he is being either disingenuous or ignorant. He could start here. The material suffering of the colonized is part of the reason why colonialism was wrong. Moldbug does not exactly say this, though, as much as he is using the quote as evidence that progressives value these nebulous abstract concepts of independence and freedom even when they come along with material suffering (I think...?). I am not sure what he is even trying to prove with the examples of Zimbabwe and Somaliland, other than a pedantic one about the terminology "independent". (Is it his idea that a Rhodesian apartheid state would have been more peaceful and stable if it had been left to continue? Surely, the fact that the governed population was willing to take to violence in opposition to the state problematizes this.) If "progressives" are people like Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, I'm not even sure that Third World postcolonialism is key to their ideology.
As for the nationalism question, he does have a point about the logical inconsistencies in the Wikipedia quote but I don't see him making a particularly interesting point otherwise, certainly not one that anyone has not thought about before if they have a remotely serious interest in world issues. Again, I'm not sure that the people he considers progressives actually believe what he says they believe. One progressive response to the examples he raises could be that nationalism is defensible when it is a response to foreign oppression and does not involve the invasion or oppression of other nations. Another could have to do with the distinction between civic nationalism and ethnic nationalism.
He answers his own question "what was so bad about the Nazis?" immediately. For the point that he seems to want to make, this question is not formulated well at all and just seems like trolling. Yes, the Allied powers did terrible things too and there have been other oppressive totalitarian dictatorships and other genocides - one can agree with all of this without either i) thinking that there was nothing bad about the Nazis or ii) undermining "progressive" convictions in any real way at all. And what is the basis for the assertion that the US treats South Africa with greater hostility than North Korea? Does the ruling class of the US, who fought a Cold War against the Communist world for 45 years, really treat Communist atrocities as a peccadillo?
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:30 (seven years ago) link
Basically, he wouldn't be stealing from the rich and giving to the poor if Richard was on the throne.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:31 (seven years ago) link
I'll never get that hour back.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:33 (seven years ago) link
The acceptability of authoritarianism /was/ uncontested and natural.
And I'm saying this is wrong. Which also isn't very controversial, even. The antique forerunners, the Hanseatic league, free imperial cities, Florence. The Münster Rebellion, the German Peasants War. They might not have thought of universal suffrage as we say - much of it was a sort of Christian communism, kinda? - but there was a lot of constant struggles against authoritarianism.
You overestimate the extent to which the imagination was stunted. You know, Ginzburg! The medieval mind was fertile, hungry and imaginative. That they didn't conceptualize this new way of organizing society doesn't mean they didn't conceptualize others.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:41 (seven years ago) link
and the winner on all three judges scorecards.....
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:44 (seven years ago) link
The material suffering of the colonized is part of the reason why colonialism was wrong. Moldbug does not exactly say this, though, as much as he is using the quote as evidence that progressives value these nebulous abstract concepts of independence and freedom even when they come along with material suffering (I think...?)
I think you're right about this argument. I always read this as a combination of a criticism of dogmatic liberalism that sees abstract concepts as valuable even when they come with material suffering as well as a little bit of the classic /bringing civilization to the savages/ argument. I think there's a way to see both sides - that liberal post-colonialism has valued the end of colonization even when the material conditions that followed their end were far worse than the conditions that preceded them (cf the rise of political Islam in the wake of European withdrawal from the Middle East and Northern Africa - though I'd argue that is just replacing one terrible colonialism with a worse one), even while the crimes committed during colonialism were very real. Or even that it's possible to celebrate the end of colonialism even while understanding the value of the institutions and cultures that colonialism introduced in various places (there's an interesting thing about maintaining the institutions of colonialism in the wake of post-colonialism as being one of the hallmarks of countries that successfully navigated the transition). But like he says in that piece - even if virus X is wrong, that doesn't mean Y is right. I don't know if he thinks neocolonialism is the right approach (um - I really mean post-neocolonialism since I think he's advocating for actual colonialism and is probably not interested in what we consider capitalist neocolonialism - though maybe he thinks it's a good compromise) or just that the narrative that is predominant regarding this is simplistic.
re nationalism I think he's right that there's a lot of confusion on this mark. there's no question that the liberal West has supported ethnic nationalism when it comes to some groups and demonized it when it comes to others - or celebrated native/indigenous control among some groups and demeaned it for others. this could just be a consequence of a simplistic view that glorifies the marginalized and marginalizes the powerful (so that if you're doing okay you should be doing less okay and if you're not doing great you could do better) but i mean i often see regarding issues like immigration, ethnic/racial control + power, nationalism, etc at the very least a willingness to overlook the crimes of nationalism perpetrated by some groups contrasted w/ others. Again, does this mean that we should embrace self-interested nationalism for everyone, or should we be consistent and oppose it for everyone, or some third option? I think neoreactionaries go with the first option when the second two are probably better imo.
iirc and I'd have to reread I think his point about WW2 is that it was more about maintaining/protecting a global hegemony than it was about opposing the humanitarian crimes of the Nazis. i think that's pretty true even if there's nothing wrong with trying to defend against a totalitarian regime bent on world domination (and unlike north korea possibly able to achieve it). if anything i think the US was consistent on this pt - refusing to accept Jewish refugees that would've saved 4-6 million lives and basically ignoring the crimes against the Jews (and other marginalized groups) up until they were forced into the war by an attack on them personally.
Does the ruling class of the US, who fought a Cold War against the Communist world for 45 years, really treat Communist atrocities as a peccadillo?
i think this point is for the truest of the ones you've mentioned - at least for "ruling class" defined as the academy/media class. at least ime in the academy. a peccadillo would probably be a good thing since it was often lionized.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:45 (seven years ago) link
Ok, Fred. You understand what I'm saying and you're dragging this out to save face. So let me help you out. You're 100% right, thank you for showing me the error of my ways, etc.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:46 (seven years ago) link
i must have spent at least an hour arguing with fred - i'd suggest your hour reading moldbug was more worthwhile
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 15:48 (seven years ago) link
Also Fred - one more note for now (I have to go out to lunch soon) - I think maybe another possible confusion here is that you're interpreting authoritarianism exclusively according to its most violent/dictatorial characterization. The term implies a strong central power and limited freedoms. You keep mentioning examples of ppl who had a limited amount of freedom or strove for a limited amount of self-determination as proof that the authoritarian model was itself contested. I'm arguing that this is a confusion. Even among ppl - like the German peasants - who wanted better conditions for themselves, their imagination did not include toppling the monarchy. This is the central pt and only bolsters my initial point. Among those who rebelled violently against their regimes, EVEN they still did not dream of ending the monarchy. One of the twelve principles of the German Peasants War was that "The nobility shall not force more services or dues from the peasant without payment. The peasant should help the lord when it is necessary and at proper times." Does this sound like a radical alteration of the basis of society? You are correct, there are antecedents to universal emancipation. There were attempts to acquire levels of liberty that were in almost every case COMPATIBLE with an authoritarian form of government. Read authoritarian for monarchist (tho not all authoritarian govs are monarchies) and you'll understand better I think. These ppl weren't looking to overturn the monarchy. They were trying to improve the material conditions of their lives. I think you know this.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:01 (seven years ago) link
Like the neoreactionaries are not advocating for a violent dictatorial authoritarian obviously! They are advocating for an enlightened ruler, a philosopher king, etc. What they are advocating would not just be an acceptable belief in almost the entirety of history but would in fact be a leftist reformer position! This is one of the arguments - Democracy has become such an ideological hegemony that even this extremely left-wing authoritarian position is utterly discredited + marginalized.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:06 (seven years ago) link
I'll just quote what I wrote upthread, because it's still kinda the crux of it:
When they're arguing for 'an enlightened ruler, a philosopher king', they're arguing for something that never existed. And never can exist, and history has shown this pretty decisively. Which is why their viewpoint is discredited and marginalized.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:10 (seven years ago) link
They ARE advocating for 'a violent dictatorial authoritarian', they're just lying about it.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:11 (seven years ago) link
Some authoritarians were clearly better than others but I'd agree w/ possibly this point whole-heartedly: the possibility of abuse when there is absolute power is too significant, and the ability to cause damage with such power too extreme, to ever allow it even if this current guy is ok the next guy might not be. which doesn't insulate democracy from the possibility of abuse but from my limited perspective it has done a better job than authoritarianism at mitigating such abuses. or to quote really the most banal cliche we possibly could: "Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:14 (seven years ago) link
Since Plato there have been people who argued that an enlightened despot would be a better guardian of individual freedom/social stability than democracy, which can tend toward mob rule. For Plato, it was democracy which had been proven definitively to lead to tyranny, not authoritarianism. In the first century of the Enlightenment this was the dominant position, as people looked to Catherine the Great and others as examples of "enlightened" monarchs. For most of history it was not seen as obvious or reasonable that democracy would secure individual liberty better than other systems -- the thinking started changing in the late 18th century
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:16 (seven years ago) link
I'm all in for democracy for the record but I don't think it's a good idea to collapse the idea of democracy totally into "good people, good times." It means self-governance. People can be against that idea and not want to live in some gulag state, even if (practically) it is more likely for an authoritarian state to turn that way than a democratic one
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:19 (seven years ago) link
And yes, in our time, any attempt to institute authoritarianism would require widespread, violent repression, which is why these neoreactionaries are so dangerous, especially if they have the ear of Steve Bannon
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:22 (seven years ago) link
Well, it's easy to point out intellectual contradictions within progressivism if you're defining "progressive" to include everyone from Bill Clinton to Noam Chomsky, including anyone who shops at Whole Foods and listens to NPR. I could probably respond better if I had specific examples of what you're talking about wrt nationalism, but pointing out some potential contradictions in how some liberals or progressives approach nationalism in practice doesn't exactly strike me as something that undermines the basic principles of liberal humanism. I agree with everything you said about WW2 below (and think it's fairly obvious) but feel similarly about this point:
I think his point about WW2 is that it was more about maintaining/protecting a global hegemony than it was about opposing the humanitarian crimes of the Nazis. i think that's pretty true even if there's nothing wrong with trying to defend against a totalitarian regime bent on world domination (and unlike north korea possibly able to achieve it). if anything i think the US was consistent on this pt - refusing to accept Jewish refugees that would've saved 4-6 million lives and basically ignoring the crimes against the Jews (and other marginalized groups) up until they were forced into the war by an attack on them personally.
I'd really quibble with that definition of "ruling class". But we're talking about an American academic class that included the University of Chicago School of Economics and Henry Kissinger and Samuel Huntington, right? (If "ruling class" means anything, I have to assume we're focusing on those in the academy and media who have had the greatest influence.) The fact that many academics might find Marxist analysis a useful tool does not equate to whitewashing the gulags imo.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:35 (seven years ago) link
the greatest influence
on the people who, you know, rule
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Saturday, 11 February 2017 16:39 (seven years ago) link
Thanks for that video again, it's an almost beautiful torrent of bugfuck bullshit. I bet whoever caught that on camera couldn't believe their luck.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 11 February 2017 17:41 (seven years ago) link
If he kept up that level of incredible nonsense, I would definitely not want to cut him out my life.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 11 February 2017 17:49 (seven years ago) link
Mordy:
i said that at one time in history authoritarianism was so omnipresent that even the revolutionaries could only conceive of a constitutional monarchy as the way forward for emancipation and that in contrast today ppl who advocate for authoritarianism are painted as kooks in mainstream magazines. it wasn't a particularly exciting, original, or adventurous remark but it was just one line and i was making a larger point about sea changes in human ideology.
Fred:
And I'm saying this is wrong. Which also isn't very controversial, even. The antique forerunners, the Hanseatic league, free imperial cities, Florence. The Münster Rebellion, the German Peasants War. They might not have thought of universal suffrage as we say - much of it was a sort of Christian communism, kinda? - but there was a lot of constant struggles against authoritarianism.You overestimate the extent to which the imagination was stunted. You know, Ginzburg! The medieval mind was fertile, hungry and imaginative. That they didn't conceptualize this new way of organizing society doesn't mean they didn't conceptualize others.
Aren't you both right? Or at least Mordy is right in broad terms, but also Fred is right to mention this long tradition of thought and action, even before the classic 18th century reforms and revolts, some of which even went further.
I dunno. I don't know quite how one would go about getting the numbers, to show exactly how representative things like the Peasant's war were of general thinking at the time ... would probably need numbers and data to decide this one?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Saturday, 11 February 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
The main difference being that Mordy didn't throw a whiny tantrum(p) in the process.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 February 2017 19:39 (seven years ago) link
Man, I don't in any way feel bad about that. Mordy is defending Mencius Moldbug. Check out what he wrote about Anders Breivik. I'm a Scandinavian socialist, that day was one of the worst in my life, I honestly think I've been pretty calm, all things considered.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:20 (seven years ago) link
That is a libelous characterization of Mordy's posts and I wish it was actionable.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:22 (seven years ago) link
Nah, it's pretty clear Mordy is defending Moldbug? I mean, of course not the parts about how it's sorta okay to machinegun people like me and my high school friends, it's the other parts that are 'interesting + frames things in provocative ways'. And I am compartmentalizing, I really am. But sooo sorry if I lose my temper around that piece of shit Moldbug, but I fucking hate that guy.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:37 (seven years ago) link
Mordy does not think Moldbug is "not that bad" or "on the right track." He reads him because he thinks it is valuable to understand one's ideological opponents, as he has pointed out many times.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:39 (seven years ago) link
Like it or not the West is experiencing the rise of racist nationalism. We can either seek to understand these new movements in order to defeat them or we can just scream that they are Nazis and hope they go away on their own. If the left ends up losing definitively to these alt right morons it will be because we were too lazy to fight this kind of thinking head on.
― Treeship, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:44 (seven years ago) link
Sure, and I'm glad if you get something out of it, I just don't feel bad for 'throwing whiny tantrums' when we're discussing people who think I should be gunned down.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
Always hard to tell if Frederik's chronic misreadings are guided by intentional bad faith arguments, ignorance, or misunderstandings. Also hard to care about which it is at this point.
Xp
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link
Yr gonna banned again if you keep this up
I remember that day. I remember calling my Norwegian friends to hear if they were okay. I remember checking facebook, seeing the RIP's for friends who had died. Everyone I knew were safe, but one guy - who works for the Arbejderpartiet - had the windows in his office blown out, while he was there. I remember my Norwegian roommates crying for weeks afterwards. And I remember when I read Moldbug's blogpost on Breivik. And that despair, that rage, that hatred, that sorrow, that is not ever going away. Breivik is the 9/11, or the Orlando Massacre, for people like me, of my age. And Moldbug is a piece of shit, and I just felt blinding rage every time a new post in this thread ticked in. And I'm not going to feel bad about that.
Then I calmed down, and tried to have a real conversation. So sorry if I lost my temper a couple of times. But it's raw.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:54 (seven years ago) link
If there's anything you should feel bad about it's your non-stop character assassination of other posters and poor reading comprehension.
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 11 February 2017 20:56 (seven years ago) link
Everyone otm
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:06 (seven years ago) link
fred, conflating finding someone interesting to read w/ agreeing with what they wrote is imho a sign of a very immature mind - one that can only get value from what reciprocates their own opinions and thoughts. u may get some value in general from disentangling the two - for one it may give you the freedom to have civil conversations on topics w/out assuming yr interlocutors are engaging in bad faith (a sure sign that you yourself are engaging in bad faith). treesh gives the most pragmatic perspective for reading things w/ which you disagree - to know what the enemy is thinking (and to refine your own arguments) - but there can even be a kind of pleasure in reading something coming from a dramatically different perspective from your own; even from a perspective that you find heinous. i've read antisemitic thinkers extensively - to know what and how they think and just for the raw experience of encountering a perspective that is so different from my own that it's alien; i've even in some ways had some pleasure in a horror movie kind of way in reading something that sent chills of discomfort and fear down my spine. i'm maybe unusual in that regard but i don't think it's a totally valueless way to approach life. what i notice about how you argue on ilx is that you present as someone who a) believes they know more than everyone they are talking to and b) makes little effort to understand the ppl they're speaking to. beginning to separate your moral perspectives from your intellectual perspectives (something you (jokingly?) disavowed on a different thread) might be a good way to start that. learn the difference between a logical argument and a moral argument and know when you're arguing one or the other. you mention 9/11. i was living in NYC on 9/11 - experiencing that trauma made me more interested in reading the works of radical islamist thinkers. i wanted to know what kind of ideology could convince ppl to murder thousands of people. and i wanted to really understand it - such that i knew it well enough that i could give over their argument myself in a convincing manner.
anyway, on a personal note i think it's pretty obvious i'm not defending moldbug on any other ground than that i think he is an interesting writer. in this very thread when discussing him w/ sund4r i stopped to insert reasons why i have objections to his philosophy, as if such a thing is necessary on ilx (but there's value in that too - explicitly spelling out where the points of contention are, why you can't follow him into the ideological abyss). moreover, i don't think you think i'm defending him either. none of our arguments above - about whether authoritarianism was ubiquitous throughout history, or whether there was meaningful objection to the idea of a sole ruler sovereign, or however you want to construe it - had anything to do w/ defending moldbug or moldbug's ideology. it was just a tedious nitpicking detour that exposed a lack of reading comprehension. if you really thought i was defending moldbug on ideological grounds presumably we could've spent all this time discussing that - instead of you inserting it in some last minute attempt to tar yr interlocutor after all other arguments were dismantled. it's a pretty embarrassing thing coming from someone w/ such high self-regard. for yr v own sake you should bring yr A-game and not this bullshit.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:13 (seven years ago) link
say this for moldbug - he's a much more innovative and interesting thinker than you are (despite his championing an ideology that has been out of fashion for centuries). your "everyone i knew was safe but i was worried about them so therefore no quarter" perspective is some weak shit that should really be below you bc it's essentially an "i would've been passing the twin towers on 9/11 if i had visited New York a week earlier" type story w/ the minor added exoticism of having to do w/ Breivik and not 9/11. "i almost knew someone who was thinking about visiting the site where a tragedy occurred and therefore i must accuse ppl who disagree w/ me of arguing in bad faith." curious whether you've ever actually had a conversation w/ someone that wasn't just a thinly veiled attempt to either a) prove your own intellectual superiority or b) prove your own moral superiority. the ironic thing is that in trying to do so you end up proving the precise opposite - that you're a sloppy enough thinker to make basic reading comprehension errors, assume the meanings of words, and construct strawmen to argue with, all while demeaning the ppl you're talking to for no reason but to bolster your own moral authority. a shitty stupid person. basically the worst kind of person you can be. i don't think that's really you, but it's far too often the discourse you prefer on ilx.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:21 (seven years ago) link
iow i'm not mad, fred, i'm just disappointed.
"fred, conflating finding someone interesting to read w/ agreeing with what they wrote is imho a sign of a very immature mind"
Aaaand I didn't do this. Talk about bad reading comprehension skills.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:26 (seven years ago) link
you literally just did that when you said that i was defending moldbug
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:27 (seven years ago) link
you literally said "Nah, it's pretty clear Mordy is defending Moldbug? I mean, of course not the parts about how it's sorta okay to machinegun people like me and my high school friends, it's the other parts that are 'interesting + frames things in provocative ways'."
how is that not a conflation between those two things? you excuse yourself doing it while you're doing it.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:28 (seven years ago) link
I literally quote that you find him interesting, and say nothing about whether or not you agree with him?
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:33 (seven years ago) link
dude wtf. what does the word "defending" mean to you? and if you just meant "defending" on grounds that he's interesting then wtf does his support of breivik (& his vile moral transgressions) have to do with it? what you're saying makes no sense unless you are conflating interesting w/ correct.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link
i know that in 2017 it's verboten to ever admit that you were wrong or back off a position but i'd have so much more respect for you if you stopped digging holes and were just like "you're right that was out of line i don't think you're pro-breivik," or "i didn't understand what you were saying about authoritarianism" or whatever but every new attempt to reframe it just makes you look more and more intellectually dishonest.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:37 (seven years ago) link
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), 11. februar 2017 14:45 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i disagree. he says things that i know are wrong but he also says things that are interesting + frames things in provocative ways. tbh i'm surprised when someone reads open letter and comes away thinking it's just the ramblings of some dumb dude.
― Mordy, 11. februar 2017 14:50 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's defending him. I read that and I see red again. And it's because I hate Moldbug so fucking much.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:45 (seven years ago) link
And I've never said you were pro-breivik, wtf?
Ban Fred b
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:46 (seven years ago) link
fred, this is why i said you conflate "interesting" w/ "correct." because you do.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
Ban Mordy too tbh
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:48 (seven years ago) link
But you know what Mordy? Just go fuck yourself. I'm not going to explain again how traumatic Breivik is, so you can shit on it some more.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:48 (seven years ago) link
i've called kevin mcdonald the most interesting contemporary antisemite. i would be very offended if you quoted that and said i was defending him and then justified your anger by recourse to his moral failings as a jew hater. someone can be evil and be interesting. someone can be good and be boring. learn to distinguish between the two.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:49 (seven years ago) link
yeah fred idgaf about your breivik trauma. it's just a way to short circuit how fucking dumb you're being by trying to cop some sympathy. own up to your shittiness please.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:50 (seven years ago) link
Fuck you too.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:54 (seven years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Carlb-sockpuppet-02.jpg/220px-Carlb-sockpuppet-02.jpg
what do u feel about the fact that [one of?] the most famous frederiks in history was the most famous proponent of enlightened authoritarianism?
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 22:59 (seven years ago) link
Mordy, I'm not sure you're well. Weren't you going to take a break until you got over you're own Trump-related trauma?
The name means King of Peace, btw. It's one of two names given to Danish kings as well, so I'm pretty well aware of the connection. Am I supposed to think anything about it?
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:03 (seven years ago) link
i feel pretty well, actually, thank you. but impugning someone's mental health to score a point in an argument is another screaming recommendation for your moral superiority. tell me more about yr seven degrees of breivik.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:05 (seven years ago) link
oh sweet a flamewar! could y'all hold on for a sec tho? i have to feed my tamogotchi and update my aim away message and i don't want to miss this
― sleepingbag, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:07 (seven years ago) link
Fuck your tamogatchi sleepingbag we had a famine once
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:09 (seven years ago) link
lololol <3
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:09 (seven years ago) link
1845: An Gorta Mór 2
tbph i want to know who cast the second vote
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
guys this is what happens when we have a thread that doesn't talk about steely dan
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
Fuck steely Dan an all after what the Brits done on us in 1603
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:11 (seven years ago) link
Mordy, I did not say you were pro-breivik, I did not say you agree with him. I admitted that I misread what you said about authoritarianism - though for the record, it then turned out you meant what I thought you meant. You've admitted you were defending Moldbug, but keeps on shitting on me for having said that you do so. To quote a major asshole who proves you can actually be both evil and boring: "you're a sloppy enough thinker to make basic reading comprehension errors, assume the meanings of words, and construct strawmen to argue with, all while demeaning the ppl you're talking to for no reason but to bolster your own moral authority. a shitty stupid person. basically the worst kind of person you can be. i don't think that's really you, but it's far too often the discourse you prefer on ilx."
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:25 (seven years ago) link
boring enough to quote eh? it'd be higher praise if it wasn't coming from such an oaf. tbph i still like you - you're feisty even if you're not half as clever as you think you are, and this forum can use a little fire now and again. i hope you learn to put your feistiness to good use.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:30 (seven years ago) link
And I fear you're a hopeless piece of shit. tbph I mostly pity you. You're boring, stupid, and quite honestly seem scared and scarred.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:38 (seven years ago) link
i think you've continued to misread the tone and conversation. i feel neither scared nor scarred. i'm mostly amused by sparring w/ you; i think you're pretty transparently full of shit here and have progressively degraded the level of conversation over and over again to cover for each preceding revelation of stupidity. i suspect this is your MO in general - you try to distract ppl from embarrassing arguments that go poorly for you by riling up as much of a clusterfuck as possible. i've been willing to accommodate you bc it's the weekend and it really didn't take much time. but just bc your blood pressure is rising and yr heartbeat rapid does not mean that everyone is feeling the same terror of exposure.
― Mordy, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:42 (seven years ago) link
I don't think you'd ever be brave enough to do anything but feign amusement, so whatever.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:49 (seven years ago) link
Not enough total toilet protection ITT
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:51 (seven years ago) link
Also Fred definitely lost
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 February 2017 23:53 (seven years ago) link
tbph I mostly pity you.
Jesus Christ dude could you be any more of an obnoxious concern troll?
― Treeship, Sunday, 12 February 2017 00:36 (seven years ago) link
hard to find a cluster where everybody's on Mordy's side but
― softie (silby), Sunday, 12 February 2017 01:14 (seven years ago) link
― Frederik B, Saturday, February 11, 2017 3:38 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Fred has never been mad, he thinks it's funny, actually
Mordys being a self infatuated pedantic dick btw.
― wishy washy hippy variety hour (Hunt3r), Sunday, 12 February 2017 03:27 (seven years ago) link
Harsh. In that case I can't even imagine what you think of Frederik.
― Treeship, Sunday, 12 February 2017 03:39 (seven years ago) link
guys we all need to relax and listen to some Kenny Loggins
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 12 February 2017 04:46 (seven years ago) link
You're boring, stupid, and quite honestly seem scared and scarred.
LOL. There may be many ways to criticize Mordy but these are none of them.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Sunday, 12 February 2017 14:43 (seven years ago) link
― El Tomboto
yeah mordy did a great job proving what all of us already knew about fred, good job
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 12 February 2017 15:16 (seven years ago) link
even Glass Joe fights a few tomato cans now and then
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 12 February 2017 15:18 (seven years ago) link
(So far, part 2 of the Moldbug open letter is a lot better than part 1.)
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 February 2017 15:21 (seven years ago) link
What would it take to get you guys to stop saying 'Mencius Moldbug'?
― how's life, Monday, 13 February 2017 12:50 (seven years ago) link
Or to stop reading jk Rowling entirely
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Monday, 13 February 2017 12:57 (seven years ago) link
Mind of Mencius
― Neanderthal, Monday, 13 February 2017 12:59 (seven years ago) link
I'm partway through part 9. Guy has really let me down. Despite all the horseshit, I had a certain respect and admiration for an American tech bro who was willing to take conservatism not just to the point of wanting to undo the New Deal or Civil War but the American Revolution itself, not just liberal democracy but the Protestant Reformation. And his connection of progressivism to Protestantism is interesting. But what does he want to replace all of this decadent liberalism/Americanism with? Restoring the political power of the papacy or the old European aristocracies? No, he just wants to turn everything over to the even more pervasive Americanism of corporate capitalism and make tech CEOs dictators, based on the largely American belief that the private sector handles everything better than the public sector, which he holds to be so self-evident that he never argues it aside from creating a strawman fictional state-owned burger chain and claiming that it would be a disaster compared to the brilliance of McDonald's or Burger King, overlooking the large number of successful publicly owned institutions (Statoil, the BBC, the University of California system, any number of publicly owned health care or health insurance systems). My fiancee (a contract instructor who is not sure yet if she is getting paid to create an online course this semester) and I did have a good laugh about the idea that, as university professors, we're actually running the world though.
From the comments:
As one of the very few people who read this blog on occason and could conceivably be called an open-minded progressive, let me just say that this series is not accomplishing its stated goal. I find the material you dredge up fascinating but entirely unconvincing.I confess that I've given up on reading the postings all the way through, since they exceed my attention span. My random dips into them reveal propositions like:- Noam Chomsky is the power elite (I suppose that explains why he is such a so pervasive presence on the talk shows and op-ed pages).- Some obscure humanities prof is the living embodiment of evil.- Busby Berkely == Leni Riefenstahl. - Present-day governments are omniously oppressive, yet they can be rebooted painlessly in a single operation. The result will be control by a single individual whose powers extend to being able to disable all extant weaponry from a button on his desk. Exactly who this person is, or why the current holders of power are going to sit still while he accumulates such power, I'm not sure. Maybe I missed that part. But whoever he is, he will avoid both being the object of a cult of personality and being a faceless bureaucrat, because those are both bad. The above propositions are entertainingly ludicrous. No progressive is going to take them seriously. That's too bad, because progressivism (like any belief system) could stand to gain from having its suppositions questioned.JUNE 6, 2008 AT 8:21 PM
I confess that I've given up on reading the postings all the way through, since they exceed my attention span. My random dips into them reveal propositions like:
- Noam Chomsky is the power elite (I suppose that explains why he is such a so pervasive presence on the talk shows and op-ed pages).
- Some obscure humanities prof is the living embodiment of evil.
- Busby Berkely == Leni Riefenstahl.
- Present-day governments are omniously oppressive, yet they can be rebooted painlessly in a single operation. The result will be control by a single individual whose powers extend to being able to disable all extant weaponry from a button on his desk.
Exactly who this person is, or why the current holders of power are going to sit still while he accumulates such power, I'm not sure. Maybe I missed that part. But whoever he is, he will avoid both being the object of a cult of personality and being a faceless bureaucrat, because those are both bad.
The above propositions are entertainingly ludicrous. No progressive is going to take them seriously. That's too bad, because progressivism (like any belief system) could stand to gain from having its suppositions questioned.
JUNE 6, 2008 AT 8:21 PM
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 16:46 (seven years ago) link
My fiancee (a contract instructor who is not sure yet if she is getting paid to create an online course this semester) and I did have a good laugh about the idea that, as university professors, we're actually running the world though.
https://mises.org/library/intellectuals-and-socialism
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 16:49 (seven years ago) link
I gave the Hayek a quick read over lunch, and may read more closely after I'm done with my day of world domination, but I don't think it says the same thing that Moldbug was saying. What is your opinion of it, Mordy?
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 17:55 (seven years ago) link
I think Moldbug is clumsily reaching for the same idea - that there's a class of intellectuals who create the ideological conditions that the rest of the country comes to adopt and Moldbug would call this group the Cathedral.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 17:58 (seven years ago) link
in a way, a lot of revanchists have defined themselves by which war they thought was won by the wrong side. your average neonazi: ww2, obv. old euro patrician types: ww1. segregationists: the civil war. colonialists: a bunch, indian independence. royalists: the english civil war. trads and anti-muslim folks: constantinople.
moldbug's bright idea is to roll these all into one thing and say it was a common enemy winning them all.
write about it at great great length with the right tone of snide condescension, bob's your uncle
― goole, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 18:20 (seven years ago) link
"Moldbug is [...] class. [...] Adopt [...] Moldbug." - Mordy
smdh @ another shameless defense of this guy
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 18:26 (seven years ago) link
in a way, a lot of revanchists have defined themselves by which war they thought was won by the wrong side.
i like this
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 19:10 (seven years ago) link
there's a class of intellectuals who create the ideological conditions that the rest of the country comes to adopt
This, the way you write it, does not strike me as especially controversial (ideas have to come from somewhere, after all) but it seems like an extremely mild reading of Moldbug. A lot depends on why these intellectuals are coming up with the ideas they do, the amount of diversity of thought that is present among intellectuals, and whether there are other powerful forces in society who might be able to counter or even influence the intellectuals.
Afaict:Hayek - In 1949, socialists dominate the intellectual class (even though they are a minority among economists) because: left-wing parties are better at targeting them (suggesting, on its own, that politicians can have some influence over intellectuals); because socialists are doing a better job of articulating a large-scale vision of how things should be, which is important for intellectuals; because socialism seems to line up with currently influential ideas in STEM disciplines; and because conservatives have more opportunities (that offer more wealth and short-term influence) outside academia. This can change if right-wingers develop a grander, more visionary theory of society (which Hayek's own career served to demonstrate, let alone the history of the world since the 70s).
Moldbug - The 'Cathedral' of professors and journalists (who are trained by professors) not only wields power indirectly by putting ideas out there and shaping the Overton window but they are literally making and administering the key political decisions since democratic bodies have outsourced all real decision-making to the Cathedral, creating a new (or cosmetically new) aristocracy. They favour progressive ideas not because anyone influences them nor because of any intellectual or ethical principle but because progressivism increases the power of the intellectual class itself. There is no significant dissent within the Cathedral of progressivism and the Cathedral will never move away from progressivism because of this predatory self-interest.
Me - I see the same story at most universities I come across: shrinking budgets, less security and dismal pay for younger professors despite their higher levels of academic qualification, increased corporate involvement, more pressure to pander to students. The Cathedral is either failing at empowering itself or doing a damn good job of painting itself as the underdog.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:42 (seven years ago) link
I have to admit I haven't read the Moldbug piece in quite a while and my takeaway was primarily the way I described it. It's very possible that he has this other stuff going on as well (that they are administering political decisions directly, that progressivism is the reigning ideology only because it increases the power of the intellectual class) and I glossed over it bc, as you point out, it's pretty dumb. Intellectuals of the Cathedral are not making the decisions themselves (though per his schemata Obama is the par excellence representative of the Cathedral and he certainly was) but they're creating the context in which decisions are made. It's hard to imagine that Moldbug believes that academics are all living high on the hog and just using ideology to keep u their decadent lifestyles. Surely he knows that despite some comforts of the professorial life that are unavailable to most of us (like tenure) no one is making as much money as business ppl. Maybe he doesn't though. My argument would be that the intellectual class trades the promise of security + amazing pay for the influence that the position brings, to have the mantle of the "public intellectual." And I don't think that progressive beliefs are uniquely able to sustain the intellectual class - I see no reason why right-wing ideas couldn't do the same as long as they placed the academy at the center of its cosmology. I'm split on the diversity of thought question. From my experience it's not extremely diverse and even at my fairly conservative undergrad institution a professor who was awarded a Templeton grant caused a huge stir from the vast majority of the [left-leaning] faculty who were uncomfortable with that fact.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 22:54 (seven years ago) link
Intellectuals of the Cathedral are not making the decisions themselves (though per his schemata Obama is the par excellence representative of the Cathedral and he certainly was) but they're creating the context in which decisions are made.
Starting here, from "Starting from the usual first principles, we are attempting to understand our system of government. What one word, dear progressives, best describes the modern Western system of government?": http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/05/ol7-ugly-truth-about-government.html
So if politicians should not rule, who - dear progressive - should? If we continue our pattern of two-word answers, the answer is: public policy.To the progressive - rather ironically, considering the history - Lenin's question is completely inappropriate. You reject the idea that government means that "who" must "rule" "whom." Rather, you believe that government, when conducted properly in the public interest, is an objective discipline - like physics, or geology, or mathematics....Public policy, of course, must not contradict physics, geology or mathematics. But these are not its main linchpins. When we look inside the magic box of public policy, we see fields such as law and economics and ethics and sociology and psychology and public health and foreign policy and journalism and education and...And when we look at the history of these fields, we tend to see one of two things. Either (a) the field was more or less invented in the 20th century (sociology, psychology), or (b) its 20th-century principles bear very little relation to those of its 19th-century predecessor (law, economics). ...As a progressive, you regard the fields of public policy as more or less scientific. The 20th century is the century of scientific public policy. And just as there is no German physics or Catholic mathematics, there is no German public policy or Catholic public policy. There is only public policy. There is no "who." There is no rule. There is no world domination. There is only global governance.So we see why it's inappropriate for George W. Bush to "politicize" the Justice Department. It is because the Justice Department is staffed with legal scholars...Thus we see the fate of representative, political democracy, which survives as a sort of vestigial reptile brain or fetal gill-slit in the era of scientific government. In classic Machiavellian style, the form democracy has been redefined. It no longer means that the public's elected representatives control the government. It means that the government implements scientific public policy in the public interest...[Adams on FDR] Adams, with only a mild glaze of sycophancy, reports the results:[FDR] was, in fact, with the help of what he considered the best expert advice, although always making final decision himself, trying experiments, and occasionally he frankly said so. In these experiments he has been motivated by two objects - one the overcoming of the depression, and the other the making over of the economic organization of the nation, the latter being what he called in his campaign speeches "the New Deal." As the latter loomed large in the administration, to a considerable extent displacing the regular Cabinet in public sight, the so-called "brain trust" requires some comment. Of recent years college professors have been more and more frequently called into consultation as "experts." Hoover made frequent application to them when President; Roosevelt did the same as Governor of New York; and foreign governments have done likewise. However, they have never been so in the forefront of affairs as since Roosevelt entered the White House, and this, together with the vagueness of what the "New Deal" might signify, helped to hinder the restoration of confidence...We can read this story in two ways. We can read it as the coming of modern, scientific government in the United States. Or we can read it as the transfer of power from political democracy to the American university system - which, just for the sake of a catchy catchword, I like to call the Cathedral...Either power has passed into the hands of the Cathedral, or it has disappeared and been replaced by mere science. "Public policy." Of course, you know what I think. But what do you think?If we can conceive the Cathedral as an actual, non-divinely-inspired, political machine for a moment, suspending any resentment or reverence we may feel toward it, not assuming that the policies it produces are good or bad or true or false, we can just admire it from an engineering perspective and see how well it works.First: if there is one pattern we see in the public policies the Cathedral produces, it's that they tend to be very good at creating dependency......Second, let's observe the relationship between the Cathedral and our old friend, "democracy." Since 1933, elected politicians have exercised minimal actual control over government policy. Formally, however, they have absolute control. The Cathedral is not mentioned in the Constitution. Power is a juicy caterpillar. Maybe it looks like a twig to most of us birds, but Washington has no shortage of sharp eyes, sharp beaks, and growling bellies...
To the progressive - rather ironically, considering the history - Lenin's question is completely inappropriate. You reject the idea that government means that "who" must "rule" "whom." Rather, you believe that government, when conducted properly in the public interest, is an objective discipline - like physics, or geology, or mathematics.
...Public policy, of course, must not contradict physics, geology or mathematics. But these are not its main linchpins. When we look inside the magic box of public policy, we see fields such as law and economics and ethics and sociology and psychology and public health and foreign policy and journalism and education and...
And when we look at the history of these fields, we tend to see one of two things. Either (a) the field was more or less invented in the 20th century (sociology, psychology), or (b) its 20th-century principles bear very little relation to those of its 19th-century predecessor (law, economics). ...
As a progressive, you regard the fields of public policy as more or less scientific. The 20th century is the century of scientific public policy. And just as there is no German physics or Catholic mathematics, there is no German public policy or Catholic public policy. There is only public policy. There is no "who." There is no rule. There is no world domination. There is only global governance.
So we see why it's inappropriate for George W. Bush to "politicize" the Justice Department. It is because the Justice Department is staffed with legal scholars...
Thus we see the fate of representative, political democracy, which survives as a sort of vestigial reptile brain or fetal gill-slit in the era of scientific government. In classic Machiavellian style, the form democracy has been redefined. It no longer means that the public's elected representatives control the government. It means that the government implements scientific public policy in the public interest...
[Adams on FDR] Adams, with only a mild glaze of sycophancy, reports the results:[FDR] was, in fact, with the help of what he considered the best expert advice, although always making final decision himself, trying experiments, and occasionally he frankly said so. In these experiments he has been motivated by two objects - one the overcoming of the depression, and the other the making over of the economic organization of the nation, the latter being what he called in his campaign speeches "the New Deal."
As the latter loomed large in the administration, to a considerable extent displacing the regular Cabinet in public sight, the so-called "brain trust" requires some comment. Of recent years college professors have been more and more frequently called into consultation as "experts." Hoover made frequent application to them when President; Roosevelt did the same as Governor of New York; and foreign governments have done likewise. However, they have never been so in the forefront of affairs as since Roosevelt entered the White House, and this, together with the vagueness of what the "New Deal" might signify, helped to hinder the restoration of confidence...
We can read this story in two ways. We can read it as the coming of modern, scientific government in the United States. Or we can read it as the transfer of power from political democracy to the American university system - which, just for the sake of a catchy catchword, I like to call the Cathedral...
Either power has passed into the hands of the Cathedral, or it has disappeared and been replaced by mere science. "Public policy." Of course, you know what I think. But what do you think?
If we can conceive the Cathedral as an actual, non-divinely-inspired, political machine for a moment, suspending any resentment or reverence we may feel toward it, not assuming that the policies it produces are good or bad or true or false, we can just admire it from an engineering perspective and see how well it works.
First: if there is one pattern we see in the public policies the Cathedral produces, it's that they tend to be very good at creating dependency...
...Second, let's observe the relationship between the Cathedral and our old friend, "democracy." Since 1933, elected politicians have exercised minimal actual control over government policy. Formally, however, they have absolute control. The Cathedral is not mentioned in the Constitution. Power is a juicy caterpillar. Maybe it looks like a twig to most of us birds, but Washington has no shortage of sharp eyes, sharp beaks, and growling bellies...
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:46 (seven years ago) link
http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/15/media/steve-bannon-breitbart-matt-boyle-reince-priebus/index.html
Lol
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:47 (seven years ago) link
that progressivism is the reigning ideology only because it increases the power of the intellectual class
From here: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/05/ol4-dr-johnsons-hypothesis.html
Without acquiring a central coordinator, the Cathedral can capture the resources and powers of the State. It can devise theories of government which it can incorporate into the Synopsis, and which the State must follow. These theories naturally involve lavish support for the Cathedral, which becomes responsible for the production of "public policy," ie, government decisions. Ie, real power is held by the professors and journalists, ie the Cathedral, not through their purity and righteousness but through their self-sustaining control of public opinion. Lenin's great question, "Who? Whom?", is answered.But why does the Cathedral not break into factions? What keeps Harvard aligned with Yale? Why doesn't one of the two realize that there is no need for a thousand synoptic progressive universities, and a vast unfilled demand for a single top-notch conservative university? Why, in short, is the Synopsis stable?I think the answer is that the Synopsis includes only political propositions whose adoption tends to strengthen the Cathedral, and weaken its enemies. It rejects and opposes all other propositions. Inasmuch as these sets shift over time, the Synopsis will shift as well. It follows a sort of hill-climbing strategy - not in the landscape of truth, but that of power. Thus, by definition, it cannot be opposed from within.To be progressive is simply to support the Cathedral and the Synopsis.
But why does the Cathedral not break into factions? What keeps Harvard aligned with Yale? Why doesn't one of the two realize that there is no need for a thousand synoptic progressive universities, and a vast unfilled demand for a single top-notch conservative university? Why, in short, is the Synopsis stable?
I think the answer is that the Synopsis includes only political propositions whose adoption tends to strengthen the Cathedral, and weaken its enemies. It rejects and opposes all other propositions. Inasmuch as these sets shift over time, the Synopsis will shift as well. It follows a sort of hill-climbing strategy - not in the landscape of truth, but that of power. Thus, by definition, it cannot be opposed from within.
To be progressive is simply to support the Cathedral and the Synopsis.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:48 (seven years ago) link
"The Cathedral is not mentioned in the Constitution."
Well, he got you there! I guess it's all despotism for everyone, then.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:55 (seven years ago) link
He's just playing straw men against each other in his little dollhouse of government. Meanwhile actual research goes on into the way institutions and states work and nobody gives a shit because too many words?
It annoys me to no end that people give any nonzero amount of shits about this drip and I never get to talk to anybody else who's really read Seeing Like A State or Why Nations Fail
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:06 (seven years ago) link
I feel like he is trying to explain to progressives exactly what's on page one of every sociology book ever? And expect it to blow our minds.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:10 (seven years ago) link
Like, what he is saying is that social science isn't actually objective, but an ideological construct meant to mask simple power relations. Right? It's basically Foucault, except even badlyer written.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:12 (seven years ago) link
even badlyer written
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:13 (seven years ago) link
xxxxp It's interesting because I read that and I think of things like "the Cathedral can capture the resources and powers of the State. It can devise theories of government which it can incorporate into the Synopsis, and which the State must follow," as implying this indirect influence of society. "Resources" throws a bit of a monkey wrench into that and implies like you said that the academy comes up with theories of government and those theories inevitably direct resources back to them (which from the foundational pt isn't entirely wrong - this idea that we wrongly treat social sciences as sciences seems like a valid observation to me, and so we fund these humanities programs to figure out how society/government is scientifically supposed to work) but this obviously falls a part on the ground level since plenty of professors are struggling to get resources so if this is in fact the plan they're doing a pretty bad job. If we speak entirely in the realm of thought + influence his points make much more sense but I agree w/ you that he doesn't quite get there and he's ultimately making a materialist argument that then fails on its own merits. If what the Cathedral directs to itself is its own authority and importance (and it's hard to argue that the academy and media are not central facets of American life - now more than ever) then he's right. If it's cash then he's confused.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:16 (seven years ago) link
I don't think it's just about thought and influence. The first long quote is him explaining how the actual decision-making is increasingly done by bureaucrats and advisors who are all academics or otherwise part of the Cathedral, since no one actually trusts politicians to know shit.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:23 (seven years ago) link
But "lavish support for the Cathedral" does seem to imply $.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:24 (seven years ago) link
Anyway, I'm p sure Tombot's right that there's better stuff to read.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:25 (seven years ago) link
foucault is a great stylist, freddy b god damn you
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:31 (seven years ago) link
read that as "even baldlyer written"
― soref, Thursday, 16 February 2017 00:54 (seven years ago) link
Well, Moldbug does write like a skinhead.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 01:07 (seven years ago) link
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), 16. februar 2017 01:31 (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Is he though? I mean, he is much funner to read than most of the Cathedral curriculum, but is it really because of his style, or because his sentences actually tend to make sense?
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 01:09 (seven years ago) link
he was a great stylist. check out how he builds his argument in the opening pages of discipline and punish. https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~felluga/punish199.html
― Treeship, Thursday, 16 February 2017 01:18 (seven years ago) link
he is way better than moldbug at building up to these "aha" moments where the reader is able to experience the disorienting pleasure of having their preconceptions come crashing down around them
― Treeship, Thursday, 16 February 2017 01:19 (seven years ago) link
foucault is better at writing than some punk with a shitty pseudonym? fuck I'm glad that was cleared up
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 16 February 2017 02:02 (seven years ago) link
I kinda hate that thing Foucault does in that example and elsewhere, where he takes two different texts, different types, different times, different contexts, and go: 'See?'. I think it's in chapter 2 where he compares a diary to an instruction manual and through analyzing the language concludes the military went from being ceremonial to disciplinary, right? I really like Foucault, but he wasn't always the most rigorous historian. But he's still one of the best theorists.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 02:10 (seven years ago) link
Isn't that why he drowns you in examples and quotes though, so you can see it's not about connecting causal dots but about revealing a discursive pattern, recurring phrases or ways of characterizing things, etc.? It's methodologically distinct from the kind of rigor you're looking for, I think.
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 16 February 2017 02:22 (seven years ago) link
I want more examples, is the thing. I don't drown at all.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 09:13 (seven years ago) link
fwiw I think this is false or at least misleadingly incomplete. intellectuals are not unmoved movers channelling the world of forms. or to frame it in a different set of jargon: they're not outside the dialectic advancing it all by themselves, but are led and directed by it. any intellectual history or theory of intellectual change that doesn't pay attention to the way material, historical, social contingencies etc. shape the production, form and content of ideas is not worth bothering with imo. the conditions in which intellectuals operate have a political & ideological character which is shaped by other factors outside of their control
― ogmor, Thursday, 16 February 2017 09:21 (seven years ago) link
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.mnxmotyrg
― how's life, Thursday, 16 February 2017 10:38 (seven years ago) link
Can we step back to where Mordy thought that academics were forgoing mad cash from the business sector in order to gain the prestige associated with being a tenured member of the tweed classes
Man ain't nobody in business wants the skillset of furrowing yr brow and saying idk man gimme a year to think about that
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 February 2017 11:09 (seven years ago) link
yeah but that's one reason business sucks
― Treesh-Hurt (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 16 February 2017 11:14 (seven years ago) link
one of my good pals gave up his v well paid job to go do his phd and enter academia, tho for fun/love rather than prestige. pretty sure he could go and get another wacky job and a hefty golden handshake whenever he wanted. not arts tho so mb you won't allow it.
― ogmor, Thursday, 16 February 2017 11:16 (seven years ago) link
basically there's a point at which you're too smart to work in the private sector
― ogmor, Thursday, 16 February 2017 11:17 (seven years ago) link
Exactly!
― Frederik B, Thursday, 16 February 2017 11:34 (seven years ago) link
Yeah but I'm asking did he give up his job to do the same thing in academia or did he give up his job so he could stop doing what he had to do in his job.
Not about smart. About willing.
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 February 2017 12:19 (seven years ago) link
Also there's always the middle ground of public service. Take a year to do the terrible thing.
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 February 2017 12:20 (seven years ago) link
he had a few nuts-sounding jobs which he enjoyed but he had an idea for what he really wanted to do and wanted the bigger challenge
― ogmor, Thursday, 16 February 2017 12:23 (seven years ago) link
My sister-in-law is a successful NYC advertising person and she is taking time away from her business to go to Yale Divinity School. But she is an unusual ad exec.
― scott seward, Thursday, 16 February 2017 15:26 (seven years ago) link
i know an academic who was teaching natural language processing at UofC and then 2 years ago was hired by Amazon to do pretty much the same research but for like 5x the salary.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 15:44 (seven years ago) link
Did u rly just "some of my best friends" me
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 February 2017 15:47 (seven years ago) link
i think you're a bit confused about what "some of my best friends" is and why it's crap. it's not that anecdotes are dumb, it's that ppl are able to have friends from classes they are otherwise bigoted against - i.e. having Jewish friends doesn't mean you're necessarily antisemitic.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 15:49 (seven years ago) link
you're necessarily not*
Well if we two don't prove that already then idk what
― Betsy DeVos Ayes (darraghmac), Thursday, 16 February 2017 15:54 (seven years ago) link
re this
i don't disagree at all. i think figuring out why they've gravitated towards this particularly ideology over the last few decades is an interesting question with a lot of potential answers. the hayek piece is a good place to start there and Sund4r names a few of these elements in this his post above. his entire quibble is that moldbug believes the historical context is an accumulation of power (that these ideas are useful for), whereas hayek (and i'm sure you and i) can think of much more persuasive reasons.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 16:04 (seven years ago) link
What ideology have academics been gravitating towards? Unlike Moldbug, (the Nobel Prize-winning LSE prof) Hayek was writing about something specific: socialism, defined as "a planned and directed economic system". This ideology had a lot of currency in 1949 but hardly anyone believes in this now. I'm not a social scientist as such but I can't believe that this kind of socialism dominates the intellectual class today. (And a lot of currently fashionable ideas in terms of e.g. queer/gender theory are things that Hayek's Marxian socialists wouldn't have especially cared about afaik.) Capitalism is everywhere in the universities of today, as I alluded to above. (Tomorrow, I'm going to indoctrinate the youth in good studio technique when it comes to recording a commercial pop-style vocal overdub.)
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 17:12 (seven years ago) link
I don't think socialism in the academy is as quite out of favor as you're suggesting but yes there are these other intellectual trends that have begun to dominate the modern academy - things like various oppression studies, post-colonialism, queer/gender theory, race theory, etc. In the most important facets these ideological leanings are similar to Socialism in-so-far as they both deal w/ egalitarian ideals, social restructuring, etc. (Open to debate whether they are equally successful at tackling these questions.)
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link
Are race and gender theory dominating the academy more than tech internships and expensive MBA programmes? Idk.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 17:32 (seven years ago) link
But OK, I'll give you that the former are more likely to shape the intellectual direction of the social sciences.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 February 2017 17:35 (seven years ago) link
does MM place football programs anywhere in his schema of university power over american life
― goole, Thursday, 16 February 2017 19:37 (seven years ago) link
iirc no
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 February 2017 19:40 (seven years ago) link
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Thursday, February 16, 2017 9:32 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
not to mention the relative power of gender studies masters degree graduates vs someone who got their MBA from the General Pinochet School of Business at the University of Chicago (the former ends up teaching gender studies the latter is a functionary in the trump government)
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 February 2017 19:44 (seven years ago) link
https://medium.com/@DaleBeran/4chan-the-skeleton-key-to-the-rise-of-trump-624e7cb798cb#.pnnrhs441
These days, 4chan appears in the news almost weekly. This past week, there were riots at Berkeley in the wake of the scheduled lecture by their most prominent supporter, Milo Yiannopoulos. The week before that neo-Nazi Richard Spencer pointed to his 4chan inspired Pepe the Frog pin, about to explain the significance when an anti-fascist protester punched him in the face. The week before that, 4chan claimed (falsely) it had fabricated the so called Trump “Kompromat”. And the week before that, in the wake of the fire at Ghost Ship, 4chan decided to make war on “liberal safe spaces” and DIY venues across the country.How did we get here? What is 4chan exactly? And how did a website about anime become the avant garde of the far right? Mixed up with fascist movements, international intrigue, and Trump iconography? How do we interpret it all?
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 17 February 2017 04:09 (seven years ago) link
Er.... do any of those really count as 4chan being "in the news?" (Also, again with "riots at Berkeley, " come on.)
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Friday, 17 February 2017 04:58 (seven years ago) link
I feel like the nihilism angle among Trump supporters -- maybe just young ones -- has been overlooked in favor of a "desperation" narrative, wherein people still cling to hope even as they vote for some incoherent idea of change by any means. I appreciated this article because it drew attention to the fact that many people voted for Trump because he was a dirtbag and that we have a lot of people in this society who are just totally fucked, bitterer than bitter
― Treeship, Friday, 17 February 2017 13:35 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, some of them are just, like, deplorable or something. If only someone had tried to draw attention to that.
― Frederik B, Friday, 17 February 2017 13:43 (seven years ago) link
Heh @ General Pinochet School of Business.
Anecdotally, I mean, my partner does teach humanities courses, in a dept where she works under senior faculty who include this guy and this guy. Not exactly Fidel and Che.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Friday, 17 February 2017 18:55 (seven years ago) link
Milo lost his book deal?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 20 February 2017 23:22 (seven years ago) link
Yup. Rumors flying he might be dropped from Breitbart as well.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 February 2017 23:23 (seven years ago) link
Sweet.
― Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 20 February 2017 23:24 (seven years ago) link
I guess sex with kids is the free speech demarcation line?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 20 February 2017 23:27 (seven years ago) link
That and he did such a horrendous job on Maher - nobody could stand to watch him for two minutes, because he's such a fake - anybody who put money in and has a sense of smell has to be cutting losses at this point.
Milo! If you got in before Maher, NYT Best Seller. Now, squat. Nothing.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 20 February 2017 23:40 (seven years ago) link
Has Maher taken credit for this yet
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 00:48 (seven years ago) link
this rando tweeter seems fairly otm
https://twitter.com/winter_wk/status/833804488800481281
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 01:09 (seven years ago) link
Yep
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 01:42 (seven years ago) link
my friend FBed p much the same thing this morning. weird-assed lines in the sand but that's Breitbart.
wish we could resurrect Andrew and kill him again with lightning
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 01:55 (seven years ago) link
Breitbart News editor Milo Yiannopoulos resigns in the wake of outrage over his past comments about pedophilia
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 19:58 (seven years ago) link
the milo letterhead is amazing
very 'i designed this for my half-elven thief-illusionist when i was eleven'
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:10 (seven years ago) link
He's doing a press conference right now which is all "Sorry if you were offended by my jokes/you can't silence me/my critics are hypocrits" etc.
― everything, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:11 (seven years ago) link
"This is a cynical media witchhunt by people who don't care about children". uh ok dude.
― everything, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:12 (seven years ago) link
sort of the logical end of all of this shitty edgelord ideology. all criticism of speech, no matter whether it is harassment, or bigotry, or promotion of pederasty, is restriction of freedom of speech and hypocritical virtue signaling. because these fucking ghouls are so lacking with empathy they don't realize that many people find all of these things vile and hateful
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:14 (seven years ago) link
Milo's logo is a person on all fours
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:14 (seven years ago) link
Look closely
it looks like the logo for a post-skrillex edm act that's somewhere fairly far down the tour poster, like right above the acts that just get listed in normal typeface
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:18 (seven years ago) link
"This is a cynical media witchhunt by people who don't care about children".
if you mean breitbart and cpac ghouls then yeah that's p much otm
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:21 (seven years ago) link
He says he's done more for "gays" than all of the "gay charities" in the last 30 years. Fuckin' hell, he's delusional.
― everything, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:21 (seven years ago) link
never forget that Trump threatened to pull federal funding from colleges that wouldn't let him speak
― frogbs, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:21 (seven years ago) link
@BencjacobsMilo Yiannopoulos says in his press conference that he has a US visa designating him "an alien of extraordinary abilities"
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:24 (seven years ago) link
i'm a broken record but if Dems had the balls/ sheer shamelessness of Republicans Trump & GOP whould be synonymous with Dylann Roof and pedophilia
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:24 (seven years ago) link
would
I blocked a gay friend on FB for insisting that Yiannopoulos, while "vile," was valuable for Starting Conversations.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:26 (seven years ago) link
well, they're already the party of "grab 'em by the pussy".....
― frogbs, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:27 (seven years ago) link
it looks like the logo for a post-skrillex edm act that's somewhere fairly far down the tour poster, like right above the acts that just get listed in normal typeface― mh 😏, Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:18 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is perfect, hats off to you
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:28 (seven years ago) link
how lovely, by the way, that it took pedophilia for CPAC to fire him and not anti-semitism and Muslim baiting.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link
Shh, you're giving it away!
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:29 (seven years ago) link
Well, he's on his knees now.
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:30 (seven years ago) link
It's the interweb version of the dead woman/live boy red line!
― jane burkini (suzy), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:31 (seven years ago) link
if the GOP was perceived as being OK with sexualizing (and having sex with) male teens in 2017, someone might bring up the fact their former speaker of the house raped teens, paid them off, and was busted for both very publicly, only for the party to seemingly not give a shit
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:39 (seven years ago) link
Tombot otm re the tv appearance. He was so bad on camera and no one knew it until that appearance.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:43 (seven years ago) link
I mean, Denny Hastert
In the prosecution's filing ahead of sentencing, federal prosecutors made allegations of sexual misconduct against Hastert (the first time they had done so publicly), saying that he had molested at least four boys as young as 14 while he worked as a high school wrestling coach decades earlier.
Sixty letters asking for leniency for Hastert were submitted to the court ahead of sentencing, but nineteen of these letters were withdrawn after Judge Durkin said that he would not consider any letters that were not made public
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:44 (seven years ago) link
xp also yeah, Yiannopolous really could have used an actual stylist and speech coach if he wanted to be a talking head and not boorish columnist
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5K84OoVcAATxpk.jpg
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link
you don't understand, all of Denny's wondrous legislative accomplishments more than make up for all the child rape
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link
Milo's press conference:
http://www.sharegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/9-Dumb-and-Dumber-quotes.gif
(and yes I stole this joke)
― frogbs, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:01 (seven years ago) link
never forget that Trump threatened to pull federal funding from colleges that wouldn't let him speak― frogbs, Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:21 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― frogbs, Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:21 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Something that--like most of the shit he wants to do--he doesn't actually have the authority to do.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:04 (seven years ago) link
Also something he's almost certainly forgotten all about by now.
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:08 (seven years ago) link
Well, yeah.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
u chicago medievalist defends milo
http://fencingbearatprayer.blogspot.com/2017/02/bully-culture.html
this is an astonishing document
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
But the progressive Cathedral...
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:31 (seven years ago) link
Xpost wow nice find
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:39 (seven years ago) link
did anyone link to that twitter rant someone went on about the MRA/red pill people, their weird behavior that only attracts people with cluster B disorders, and how they seem to have had bad childhoods and are hellbent on recreating them?
because I'm getting that vibe from this medievalist dude, this whole second paragraph about "lies" is very much the "these are broad generalizations I'm going to claim people believe and this is why things are broken" narrative
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
"medievalist dude" is actually a lady medievalist, I think?
― soref, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:43 (seven years ago) link
imo it is a great shame that man's bio (the "about me" at the bottom of the blog) couldn't fit in a twitter bio
good find, goole!
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
yeah it's the most dude-ish blog, even if it's a woman posting it
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:46 (seven years ago) link
yeah it's a woman
i guess if your reactionary views are that fundamental, it's just how these things look.
her next post all but compares milo to jesus. at least it's shorter.
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
apologies for any misgendering or insult that implies, but despite being from someone who is older and female, this rant is exactly what I would expect from a 20-something man who reads red pill crap
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
Meanwhile, no honor among thieves:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5OB7deUMAAX4UC.jpg:large
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:49 (seven years ago) link
god please let them all cannibalize each other leaving nothing behind but their hair gel
― maura, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:51 (seven years ago) link
rrrreaally don't know how i feel about that one
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:51 (seven years ago) link
Is she bucking to take whatshername's slot at the NRO?
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:52 (seven years ago) link
does anyone know where spencer came from? it seemed like the media dug this guy up after the election to find a nazi seig heiling trump but i never heard of him before that and without his new media presence it seems like he is a nobody?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:53 (seven years ago) link
worked at the american conservative and taki mag. involved in various far right groups, a think tank etc. no more of a nobody than any of these alt-right internet people. claims he invented the term
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:56 (seven years ago) link
was a ron paul guy back in 2007 or whatevs i think?
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:57 (seven years ago) link
i heard of spencer years ago but i don't remember the context. he was the one young dude involved in NPI at least ten years ago.
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:58 (seven years ago) link
his website called, 'alternative right,' was put up around the time john derbyshire was booted from NRO.
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 21:59 (seven years ago) link
well obv not the one and only young dude but he had some prominence
no doubt it's long gone but i found his weightlifting blog once
― goole, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:00 (seven years ago) link
also, he once threw up on Taki's carpet:
I invited Richard Spencer to visit me in my New York house where I offered him the job of running my website, Takimag. (He had worked at the magazine but been laid off.) Richard was well-read, a bit vague, nice-looking, well-dressed and well-spoken. Things were hunky-dory until he asked me where the bathroom was. When he returned, he looked a bit pale but told me he was fine. After we’d agreed his salary and the ideology Takimag would espouse — all shades of opinions towards the right — we shook hands and off he went.At that point one of the maids came down and informed me that my guest had thrown up all over the carpet and simply left the mess for her to clean up. The mother of my children was outraged, and when I defended him by saying that he hadn’t thrown up on purpose, she pointed out that no member of our staff was expected to clean up such a mess. As she was already Orlando Furioso, I withheld the fact that Spencer hadn’t even bothered to tell me about it.
At that point one of the maids came down and informed me that my guest had thrown up all over the carpet and simply left the mess for her to clean up. The mother of my children was outraged, and when I defended him by saying that he hadn’t thrown up on purpose, she pointed out that no member of our staff was expected to clean up such a mess. As she was already Orlando Furioso, I withheld the fact that Spencer hadn’t even bothered to tell me about it.
― soref, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:02 (seven years ago) link
Thanks to Augustine, among others, I am convinced that there is a profound link between fencing and prayer, our souls like swords to be wielded by God.
― nomar, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:05 (seven years ago) link
seems like a really socially well-adjusted person, pukes on your carpet and doesn't tell you about it, continues on with business conversation
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:06 (seven years ago) link
glad the mother of his children stood up for the staff
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:10 (seven years ago) link
having the money to have a house in new york with staff but having carpet in the bathroom smh
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link
oh jesus I assumed the carpet was outside the bathroom and he just didn't even make it there
if the bathroom was carpeted then that speaks volumes about taki
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:18 (seven years ago) link
oh yes of course excuse my reading it does not seem to suggest that it was in the bathroom
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:22 (seven years ago) link
Virtually the only thing to look forward to over the next few years is this self-inflicted downfall of verminous fucks like Milo so we might as well enjoy it when it happens. Even if there will almost inevitably be someone else to fill the vacuum.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:23 (seven years ago) link
Is it a thing to post the iron cross as your avatar or logo?
― calstars, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link
I've had enough of seeing Milo's stupid rolly eyed open mouthed face everywhere I go
― akm, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 23:16 (seven years ago) link
Open-mouthed, hey now.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a1/Descendents_-_Milo_Goes_to_College_cover.jpg
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 February 2017 23:17 (seven years ago) link
he doesn't wanna smell your muff iirc
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 23:27 (seven years ago) link
I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of Milo. I can imagine he'll be setting up his on Breitbart website--"Club Milo" or some shit--pretty soon to rebuild his brand.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 23:27 (seven years ago) link
Do redpill dudes really describe their opponents as bullies? Seems a bit wussy. Fencing Bear makes me think of the Barbara Kay/Christie Blatchford/Margaret Wente raging granny trio.
― My Body's Made of Crushed Little Evening Stars (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 February 2017 23:52 (seven years ago) link
Since when does Breitbart have standards? Firing Milo is sheer opportunism -- a way for them to clean up their brand without really changing. That's the new thing -- set the bar unfathomably low so that people are pleasantly surprised when you do something that should just be expected.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 22 February 2017 01:52 (seven years ago) link
― mh 😏, Tuesday, February 21, 2017 5:06 PM (three hours ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnOnDatqENo
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 February 2017 01:54 (seven years ago) link
As Taibbi writes, this guy ain't going away
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/matt-taibbi-milo-yiannopoulos-isnt-going-away-w468012
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Wednesday, 22 February 2017 02:55 (seven years ago) link
a person who is such a reactionary American that he's British,
lmao
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 22 February 2017 05:17 (seven years ago) link
I'm about halfway through that 4chan piece and while it's fascinating in its own right, I feel like "skeleton key" is overselling it ludicrously. These dudes are loud on the internet and gleefully took credit for Trump's victory, and it's certainly a worrying cultural trend in its own right, but I feel like as far as support for Trump goes they're a sideshow at best. Young people voted for the dude less than any other age group iirc, and while there's ideological overlap between them and your average Trump voter there's also pretty clear differences - average Trump voter couldn't care less about female Ghostbusters or ethics in gaming journalism and, to the extent they're even aware of these types, probably feel contempt for their basement dwelling, anime hair ways. And they certainly didn't vote Trump because they think he's a loser.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 22 February 2017 13:35 (seven years ago) link
man, even the right's newfound "pedophilia is a bridge too far" stance seems so fake right now. I mean we had this politician who would openly brag about barging into the locker rooms at Miss Teen USA and checking out the women and they elected him President of the United States.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 22 February 2017 14:27 (seven years ago) link
Well, it's pedophilia when it involves boys.
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Wednesday, 22 February 2017 14:29 (seven years ago) link
I think his real crime was impugning the character of Catholic priests
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Wednesday, 22 February 2017 14:37 (seven years ago) link
but the Pope is still an asshole
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 22 February 2017 17:50 (seven years ago) link
I see Mr Spencer fancies himself a music critic
https://twitter.com/Olivianuzzi/status/834799915058470917
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 23 February 2017 16:36 (seven years ago) link
Spencer was at CPAC but apparantly has just been kicked out
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 23 February 2017 16:39 (seven years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/02/23/cpac-organizer-denounces-alt-right-as-left-wing-fascist-group/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.90dc00ee9473
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:02 (seven years ago) link
Over a few confusing minutes, Schneider argued that the “alt-right,” a term coined then popularized by the National Policy Institute’s Richard Spencer, was philosophically left-wing because it departed from his definition of conservatism, in which “the individual” is sovereign.“They hate the Constitution. They hate free markets. They hate pluralism,” Schneider said. “Fascists tend to want big government control.”
“They hate the Constitution. They hate free markets. They hate pluralism,” Schneider said. “Fascists tend to want big government control.”
Well well.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:09 (seven years ago) link
Um.
Wat?
― Hurry Up And Eat Your Face! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:19 (seven years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:36 AM (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugJ8TQh9gaM
― the raindrops and drop tops of lived, earned experience (BradNelson), Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:20 (seven years ago) link
"fascism is a species of leftism" has been an article of faith in american conservatism for a while now.
― goole, Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:22 (seven years ago) link
We're not even on a "I actually mean the opposite of the blatant lies I'm telling" level of attempted reality alteration anymore. This is some "that sandwich is actually a rabbit and rabbits are the antithesis of everything I stand for and also please ignore me as I savor this delicious sandwich that I'm eating" unknitting the very fabric of meaning shit.
― Hurry Up And Eat Your Face! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:23 (seven years ago) link
And it's unnecessary! These people are white supremacists and fascists. Their supporters are white supremacists and fascists. They would love for you to vocally embrace those tenets. And the people who oppose you see right through your shit no matter what garbled nonsense you spew as a smokescreen.
― Hurry Up And Eat Your Face! (Old Lunch), Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:25 (seven years ago) link
relevant
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45uy-TtkD1k
xposts
― Peacock, Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:49 (seven years ago) link
never forget:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41c95cZRicL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
The Politics of Change
― marcos, Thursday, 23 February 2017 17:59 (seven years ago) link
fuck everyone
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Thursday, 23 February 2017 18:01 (seven years ago) link
I've tried
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 23 February 2017 18:02 (seven years ago) link
Isn't this the umpteenth reincarnation of nazis saying 'Hitler was a socialist!1!'?
Neanderthal otm
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 23 February 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
Over a few confusing minutes, Schneider argued that the “alt-right,” a term coined then popularized by the National Policy Institute’s Richard Spencer, was philosophically left-wing because it departed from his definition of conservatism, in which “the individual” is sovereign.
interesting rhetoric from people who can't keep the words "god" and "america" out of their mouths for two seconds
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 23 February 2017 18:52 (seven years ago) link
Ha, click this for the relevant two pics
https://mobile.twitter.com/Slade/status/834802177843527683
Slade Sohmer @SladeLife comes at you really, really, REALLY fast 8:28 AM · Feb 23, 20173,047 RETWEETS4,466 LIKES
Life comes at you really, really, REALLY fast
8:28 AM · Feb 23, 2017
3,047 RETWEETS4,466 LIKES
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
tee hee
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:40 (seven years ago) link
everything involving richard spencer in 2016 made me sick insideeverything involving richard spencer in 2017 makes me feel like dancing a jig
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:41 (seven years ago) link
CPAC trying to front like its not crawling with breitbart and alt right people is some comedy
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 23 February 2017 19:50 (seven years ago) link
I wondered how long it would be before we had to deal with Death in June & Boyd Rice. Their label just got put on an SPLC list:
http://www.wweek.com/news/business/2017/02/21/a-northeast-portland-record-label-lands-on-a-national-hate-group-registry/
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Thursday, 23 February 2017 20:43 (seven years ago) link
"It's just music and it's just money. I just go where the customers need me."
No, this makes you a Nazi collaborator, sorry
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 20:45 (seven years ago) link
"Powne says he's "mystified" by the hate-group listing. "The solution to bad speech is not to shut it down, but to overcome it with more speech," he says."
ok. "you're a hate group". that's speech.
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Thursday, 23 February 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link
got into a mini discussion on this today on fb.
― akm, Thursday, 23 February 2017 20:58 (seven years ago) link
i can't believe death in june is their top selling artist when there are other legitmate things on Soleilmoon
― akm, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:00 (seven years ago) link
The Soleilmoon thing is weird because as a label they've only released one limited edition 7" by Death In June. Sad that they've released so many great records by Daniel Menche, Merzbow, and the Legendary Pink Dots, and yet Doug P's pathetic Nazi cosplay strum-along is apparently vastly outselling all those.
Boyd Rice would probably brag that he's been trying to "Make America Great Again" since the 1970's.
― example (crüt), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:03 (seven years ago) link
No winners in all of this mess :(
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link
the artists in question don't seem to have any products listed on the label's site anymore; dunno if that changed since a couple days ago
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
oh haha man there's no such thing as an ironic totenkopf
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20170107092313/https://www.soleilmoon.com/
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:17 (seven years ago) link
fucker was selling literal SS insignia for this band and says he's "perplexed"
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:19 (seven years ago) link
hope all these legitimate acts take their business elsewhere
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:22 (seven years ago) link
sorry I'm just furious that this guy was selling death's head pins and claims to be motherfucking "mystified"
― softie (silby), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:23 (seven years ago) link
so sad that soleil moon frye has been put on the hate list
― akm, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:26 (seven years ago) link
https://m.facebook.com/notes/richard-spencer/my-ranking-of-30-years-of-depeche-mode-albums/405659696810/
― maura, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:37 (seven years ago) link
excellent find
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:39 (seven years ago) link
obviously spencer isn't a racist, look how highly he rates BLACK celebration!
― akm, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
trying to remember who it was that recently reiterated that the flirtation with fascist imagery in british late 70s/early 80s acts to be "edgy" was immature and that people should grow the fuck up
― mh 😏, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:50 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/ChristinaMcMc/status/834804567544041474
― soref, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:51 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/maura/status/834802503145373697
― mookieproof, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:52 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/goldengateblond/status/834852609798262784
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Thursday, 23 February 2017 21:58 (seven years ago) link
looks like this guy was first:
https://twitter.com/nworbdet/status/1650302183
― soref, Thursday, 23 February 2017 22:09 (seven years ago) link
http://www.avclub.com/article/depeche-mode-tells-lifelong-fan-richard-spencer-fu-250908
...Nevertheless, he maintained that he has been “a lifelong Depeche Mode fan.” It’s a statement borne out by Spencer having done stuff like rank all of the group’s albums on Facebook, his placing of Black Celebration over both Music For The Masses and Violator just one of the many ways in which he is always wrong.[...]While it’s perhaps not on the level of Chris Christie being repeatedly spurned by Bruce Springsteen, or Paul Ryan being forced to delete Rage Against The Machine from his “Getting Pumped” gym playlist and replace it with the death rattles of cancer patients, there is always some small, meaningless sliver of joy in seeing a band telling one of its most devoted fans to get fucked. Now if only someone would forward this to New Order’s Peter Hook.
While it’s perhaps not on the level of Chris Christie being repeatedly spurned by Bruce Springsteen, or Paul Ryan being forced to delete Rage Against The Machine from his “Getting Pumped” gym playlist and replace it with the death rattles of cancer patients, there is always some small, meaningless sliver of joy in seeing a band telling one of its most devoted fans to get fucked. Now if only someone would forward this to New Order’s Peter Hook.
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Thursday, 23 February 2017 22:12 (seven years ago) link
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/02/23/p.c.-culture-vs.-the-big-joke
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Friday, 24 February 2017 00:35 (seven years ago) link
Hasnt the "DIJ are fascists" thing been a thing for a really long time? No one can act suprised about it now, surely.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 24 February 2017 00:45 (seven years ago) link
you know when you know someone and decide to stop hanging out with them because you told them a certain behavior annoys you, and they keep doing it on purpose around you because they think that's funny? that's the DIJ dude and his SS symbols
― mh 😏, Friday, 24 February 2017 01:01 (seven years ago) link
also my freshman year roommate
― mookieproof, Friday, 24 February 2017 01:04 (seven years ago) link
A friend of mine is, so he claims anyway, reasonably good friends with ol Dougie P. And seems proud of it too.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 24 February 2017 02:22 (seven years ago) link
he's in australia, right? seems like a good place for unrepentant nazi imagery fetishists to hide out
― mh 😏, Friday, 24 February 2017 02:44 (seven years ago) link
Ya Adelaide, iirc
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 24 February 2017 03:11 (seven years ago) link
has goole or anyone else been keeping up with this ld50 gallery in london story this week
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 13:17 (seven years ago) link
lucia diego was on bbc london radio this morning getting the you poor thing sob story treatment from vanessa feltz
diego's performance not esp convincing but she does seem too stupid/remote from the other figures connected to it
enquirers are directed to dm kantbot on twitter, the site is screencap trolling lib responses, someone claiming to be anissimov is on tumblr encouraging a counter-demo tomorrow
something doesnt add up
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 13:23 (seven years ago) link
I know the full details of the conference were kept semi-secret at the time but it seems odd for this to have kicked off over six months later. I'm not even sure there have been any events there since.
― Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Friday, 24 February 2017 13:44 (seven years ago) link
sophie jung reposting ld's remarks in a private fb convo two weeks ago is supposedly what got the ball rolling
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 14:29 (seven years ago) link
https://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/2017/02/23/benefactor-ld50-art-gallery-denies-interest-involvement-activities/
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 14:30 (seven years ago) link
lovely I've discovered from that that this Michael Anissimov guy lives in my town and sounds like an altright piece of shit
― akm, Friday, 24 February 2017 16:11 (seven years ago) link
he's altright, ain't nobody worried bout him
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Friday, 24 February 2017 17:22 (seven years ago) link
now I've fallen into a fucking click hole on amazon of 'neoractionary' survivalist white nationalist kindle only horseshit written by this guy and his ilk.
― akm, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:51 (seven years ago) link
I'm worried that a pal of mine from high school is a fan of Milo. Not sure it's worth the potential damage to my mental health to confirm though.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Friday, 24 February 2017 18:46 (seven years ago) link
ha ha nick land banned from twitter
https://twitter.com/RetchinBtchFace/status/835095184161505281
otm
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 18:48 (seven years ago) link
Any clue why he's been banned?
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Friday, 24 February 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
twitter security bot ai singularity
― r|t|c, Friday, 24 February 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
I wasn't aware Nick Land was on twitter, but I am glad he's gone :)
― mh 😏, Friday, 24 February 2017 19:36 (seven years ago) link
Kinda funny. And cool.
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/24/14715774/milo-yiannopoulos-cpac-pedophile-video-canada
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 25 February 2017 01:25 (seven years ago) link
milo-yiannopoulos-cpac-pedophile-video-canada
― example (crüt), Saturday, 25 February 2017 05:02 (seven years ago) link
i clicked it anyway but that juxtaposition made me lol
Fun podcast interview with Angela Nagle and her taxonomy of these assholes in Jacobin: Paleocons for Porn
https://images.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/issue24-illo-nagle.jpg
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Monday, 27 February 2017 05:26 (seven years ago) link
re: ld50, it's a weird fucking situation. Diego's statement that the conferences were widely publicized is contested by both the protestors and evidence from a speaker; but if you just wanna hold secret fash meetings, why bother having them in a public space? I'm really confused by what the endgame is here.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 27 February 2017 10:26 (seven years ago) link
Read that as ''secret fetish meetings'' and then tred to parse ''fash'' as short for ''fashion'' before finally remembering which bookmark I'd actually clicked on.
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Monday, 27 February 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
the Nagle interview was good, looking forward to reading the piece
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 27 February 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
rtc damn i didn't know any of this, never heard of ld50
that tweet about land is pretty funny
kf: nagle has written good things about this zone in the past, i'll have to check that out
― goole, Monday, 27 February 2017 22:50 (seven years ago) link
I read a few well-intentioned tweets about the need for a left accelerationism
which is pretty much ok, but it really really cannot be called "left accelerationism"
― mh 😏, Monday, 27 February 2017 22:53 (seven years ago) link
i'd seen some kind of ban wave was afoot on twitter, here's a sympathetic account. it relies heavily on a post at /pol/, so, lol
http://www.unz.com/akarlin/great-twitter-purge/
the usual best guess is that in both tech and management, everything at twtr is seriously halfassed
― goole, Monday, 27 February 2017 22:53 (seven years ago) link
If it’s good enough for ISIS recruiters, it’s probably a safe enough space for you.
― mh 😏, Monday, 27 February 2017 22:57 (seven years ago) link
^^ Lyrics of the new reunited Dodgy single.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:02 (seven years ago) link
as much as I want twitter to crash and burn in part because of its use as official propaganda mouthpiece of dear leader I'm sure he'd find another medium to pester us/provide his supporters with their daily 2 minutes hate
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 27 February 2017 23:07 (seven years ago) link
The prospect of him taking to 2000-word screeds on Medium seems like it'd have an amusing effect
― International House of Hot Takes (kingfish), Monday, 27 February 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
I dont think he knows 2000 words total
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 27 February 2017 23:14 (seven years ago) link
https://storify.com/weev/duck-enlightenment-s-final-tweet-spree
― Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:22 (seven years ago) link
some v guilty lolz at some of these
― Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:33 (seven years ago) link
ah "satire"
― goole, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:33 (seven years ago) link
which ones?
― goole, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:35 (seven years ago) link
The Duckopoulos@jokeocracydear @NYTFriedman, in an exotic locale, a foreign cabdriver will solemnly opine "president trump is gonna run you over with a steamroller"
― Mordy, Monday, 27 February 2017 23:38 (seven years ago) link
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Monday, February 27, 2017 6:07 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Trump is live on ICQ
― waht, I am true black metal worrior (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 00:10 (seven years ago) link
Mordy, why are you linking to a storify set up by a dude who has a giant swastika tattoo on his chest?
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 02:08 (seven years ago) link
Wait what thread is this
― Mordy, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 02:46 (seven years ago) link
― Mordy, Monday, February 27, 2017 5:22 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"weev" is that dude who tries to pass himself off as a notorious troll but is kind of just a useless shithead
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 02:49 (seven years ago) link
Pity that Angela Nagle is good, because I have "Angela nagl, amirite" ready to go in the locker here.
― Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 10:48 (seven years ago) link
if these tossers are trying to take over duck iconography they've gone too far
― mock you like a Turrican (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 13:46 (seven years ago) link
if they come for toilet duck i'm taking up arms
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 14:48 (seven years ago) link
toilet duck has demonstrated a strong commitment to internationalism
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 14:55 (seven years ago) link
the peoples' duck
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 15:02 (seven years ago) link
they can pry my duck from my cold, germ-free hands
― Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:15 (seven years ago) link
I said duck
― Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:17 (seven years ago) link
wtf at that storify link
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:37 (seven years ago) link
think I'm gonna go back to not reading this thread
― ornate orchestral arrangements (DJP), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 16:39 (seven years ago) link
― Sacked Italian Greyhound (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, February 28, 2017 4:17 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Then I can dig it
― Thank you for your service, wasteman (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link
The Alt-Right is Slandering My Father’s Beautiful Creation, Babar by: Jacques de Brunhoff
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:23 (seven years ago) link
yeah that link is horribly broken
― El Tomboto, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:35 (seven years ago) link
Wow it really is.
Let's try again - https://med✧✧✧.c✧✧✧@cul✧✧✧.crawf✧✧✧/the-alt-right-is-slandering-my-fathers-beautiful-creation-babar-by-jacques-de-brunhoff-345c7f2dd20#.cuvq5ysfc
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:36 (seven years ago) link
Very odd
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:37 (seven years ago) link
That's...even worse.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:37 (seven years ago) link
it's the @ sign
― example (crüt), Monday, 6 March 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
Anyway, here it is, and it's some comedy piece.
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
Try this one? http://boingboing.net/2017/03/06/the-alt-right-is-slandering.html
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
xxpost -- that would make sense!
Good way to kill a joke - fail to post links to it repeatedly. Ah well.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:39 (seven years ago) link
tinyurl should work: https://tinyurl.com/gvv7qs4
― example (crüt), Monday, 6 March 2017 21:39 (seven years ago) link
lol it's pretty funny.
My kids loved Babar and I could never figure it out.
― Brevs Mekis (dandydonweiner), Monday, 6 March 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link
alt-right toilet men
― Neil S, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:42 (seven years ago) link
requesting a thread name change
― Neil S, Monday, 6 March 2017 21:46 (seven years ago) link
well this is darling
http://www.mediaite.com/online/is-that-cute-kid-trump-met-at-the-white-house-today-making-the-pepe-symbol/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 19:51 (seven years ago) link
no, he's not. the pepe is making donald's 'a-ok' gesture. trumpies have been doing that since the beginning of his campaign.
― goole, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:12 (seven years ago) link
well yeah, goole, i read the story
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:25 (seven years ago) link
― j., Saturday, February 11, 2017 3:45 AM (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I checked in on this thread after reading this story but got distracted by the Fred B squabbling, but finally made it through to the end and this story is just ridiculous, isn't it? I watched the video of the dudes drinking milk at Shia TheBeef's installation and they just seem so pitiful. Like, the saddest wretches I could ever imagine. I don't think I could have less respect for anyone like I do these choads.
― Dysphagia Nutrition Solutions (stevie), Thursday, 9 March 2017 12:04 (seven years ago) link
That Persian ethnonationalist I was talking about earlier said he's going to trace his racial origins, that he'd like to form a vigilante group to get rid of muslims to bring back his glorious culture.He also wants people to do experiments on isis members for the research to create virtual utopias.One minute he's saying typical nihilist things about there being no real value in anything and then extreme nationalist stuff.He keeps getting banned, rejoins then deletes most of his statements.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 12 March 2017 00:55 (seven years ago) link
I've found a guy who comments all the time on the FB posts of a reasonably high-profile (non racist, leftist) Portuguese author whining about Europe taking in refugees and such. Went to his profile and he combines a "Christian nationalist" ideology with generic alt right nonsense. Someone was expressing worries over how the Portuguese community will be treated post-brexit and he was stressing very strongly that there is no ill will against Portuguese in the UK, there's "residual anti-Polish feeling" but even that's not strong, it's all about the dreaded muslims. It's all so feeble - I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 11:58 (seven years ago) link
my impression is that white supremacists in 2017 aren't so discriminating about which european nations constitute "white"? obv that hasn't always been true.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 14:50 (seven years ago) link
Wasn't there images of a dating profile of a guy saying which groups of white were okay for him?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 15:01 (seven years ago) link
Circulating recently.
interesting. i'd like to see that. i think part of what happened regarding the whitening of the US (which many writers including Brodkin have noted occurred primarily in a context of a racial dichotomy) is that as these various ethnic groups became acculturated into whiteness they also lost their sense of individuated ethnic heritage. sure you have irish descendants and italian descendants who take their ethnic background somewhat seriously (ime much less so in the case of german descendants) but even then it's within this non-differentiated context of just blanket "european descent" (esp since anything more specific would probably start to exclude the whiteness claims of the only ppl who really take their own ethnic identities even partially serious). historically tho i think their racist forebearers would probably be disappointed to find that they give blanket supremacy to pretty much the entire continent. i was looking at this white supremacist meme twitter feed yesterday (lg&m linked to it) and some of the posts were 'celebrating' white Russia, Ukraine, Serbia, Spain, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria -- alongside more historical choices - Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, etc. i wonder if european white supremacism is still more picky and this is all purely an american phenomenon? we're generally considered among the most historical and geographically illiterate people in the world - maybe our white supremacists would be more bigoted if they even knew what the word Slav meant?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 15:13 (seven years ago) link
greater awareness of ethnicity in europe has the effect of undermining the utility of whiteness and more specific taxonomies are required - linguistic/cultural groups like anglo-saxon, haplotypes, religion, rural/urban, regionalism & ofc class. this is a big generalisation but I still see whiteness as a concept as having colonial origins and don't think it's been imported v comfortably or neatly into domestic life here, in a similar way to how I only feel 'british' abroad. but I know a lot of ppl from varied backgrounds feel similarly about racial identity
― ogmor, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 15:42 (seven years ago) link
This is interesting because the current story on the Gamergate thread is about a prominent gamernerd Youtube duderino (several million followers apparently? never heard of him before this) who has been retweeting Steve King despite being himself the child of Iranian immigrants. There is enormous capacity for cognitive dissonance around race if the narrative of the day suits what you need it to do emotionally and ideologically.
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:06 (seven years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan#In_Iranian_literature
I'm sure you know about this; Iran has a complex relationship with whiteness. A white supremacist child of Iranian immigrants is not as incongruous as other marginalized groups identifying with white supremacy (something that also happens).
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:13 (seven years ago) link
this dipshit?
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17309505_10154929914625638_3393493254470523270_n.jpg?oh=e34dab111fe25aff01e8a36d2db15eec&oe=596C4AF4
― not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:26 (seven years ago) link
ancap is so funny
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:27 (seven years ago) link
There is a nontrivial difference between generalized White Supremacy and tangible policies and attitudes driven by white supremacy that are directly aimed at people not only of your ethnicity, but from your family's specific country of origin. One would think that even if you are on board with white supremacy as an overall ethos, you would balk at the bits specifically designed to keep people like you from existing.
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:28 (seven years ago) link
IOW this dude is like a real-life version of Uncle Ruckus from The Boondocks cartoon and should be clowned for it
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:29 (seven years ago) link
dude seems like a real catch
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:29 (seven years ago) link
suspicious that he didn't include his height but otherwise i'm amazed he's single
― not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:31 (seven years ago) link
he said "under 5'6"" so I think he did indirectly include his height
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:44 (seven years ago) link
"Okay fine, I'm 2 inches tall."
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:46 (seven years ago) link
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/donbluth/images/0/04/Thumbelina_emerging_from_the_rose.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131003011023
the master race
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:48 (seven years ago) link
Related to the whole Iranians-and-Aryanism thing, I recently interviewed an Iranian black metal artist who has some thoughts...
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:49 (seven years ago) link
i mean who actually types out "7.75 inch penis"
― nomar, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:49 (seven years ago) link
three decimal places or gtfo
― not even my mate ross king sniffed out this hot gossip (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:52 (seven years ago) link
Mordy, fair point. I think he was also snared by Trumpist immigration discourse, in addition to King's noxious miscegenation/race-purity garbage but I can't even bring myself to reread the information on this that I skimmed last night because fuck an alt-right gamerlord.
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
have been wanting to make the poll choad vs pencil dick for a while now
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 16:57 (seven years ago) link
― nomar, Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:49 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
more to the point, who has taken a ruler and very carefully measured their penis to two decimals
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:47 (seven years ago) link
maybe use some sort of laser measure
― Pengest Khan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:49 (seven years ago) link
"It's a million angstroms long!"
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:53 (seven years ago) link
in the US whiteness is pretty much a game of exclusion, with people being assumed "white" unless there's something that gives away a difference. skin color, certain stereotyped facial features, accented speech, anything that breaks that code
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 17:58 (seven years ago) link
― Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱)
This was really interesting to read, thanks!
― emil.y, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:08 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/841702887772299264
― Lauren Schumer Donor (Phil D.), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:09 (seven years ago) link
btw i read this yesterday - http://www.skepticink.com/prussian/2014/03/31/the-anti-racialist-q-a/ - and i thought it was pretty excellent. the author is v idiosyncratic and holds a lot of political views ilxors disagree w/* however maybe bc of that he is able to refute specific claims from racialists/alt-rightists w/ deliberate, thoughtful arguments. it's v similar to scott alexander faq's (on anti-nrx among others) and afaik was inspired by those so if you like those styles and want a fairly intelligent fisking of these beliefs i think it's pretty good. (* it seems like he's a climate change denialist?)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.
This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
They're all still Europeans, after all.
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:23 (seven years ago) link
(xxp I should note he has other verboten opinions too - i think it's a valuable piece in spite of them plz don't come back w/ some quote and be like "omgod how could you say this is good," this goes double for you fred)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
thought this was interesting
http://www.npr.org/2017/03/14/520087884/researchers-examine-breitbart-s-influence-on-misleading-information
might get around to mordy's link. skimmed it and i raised a brow a few times
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
Also British fascist dingbats do not care about Christianity.
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:31 (seven years ago) link
Yet here in the real world, you defeat bad ideas through reason.
this guy is a riot
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:34 (seven years ago) link
I wonder how many British white nationalists would even count Portugal as "white", let alone count Catholics as christians.This seems more of an American thing than a British thing, I don't think even white supremacists in the UK would consider the Portuguese non-white, or Spaniards, Italians, Greeks etc. They might not like them much, of course.― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:21 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Return of the Flustered Bootle Native (Tom D.), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:21 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
chuckled at this too
it happens in latin america too. some (maybe a lot of?) south americans tend to think argentina is 'whiter' or more 'european' because of their italian past while other countries of spanish and portuguese descent are indirectly thought of as non-european. you'll get walls of text from some south americans hanging on to their 'european' complex saying how buenos aires looks more 'european' and, by extension, argentina is just more european
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:34 (seven years ago) link
Spain, Greece, Italy, etc are welcomed for having kept up a thriving Fascist subculture. Polish fascists (both resident and visiting) do a lot of work with British far-right groups too.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:45 (seven years ago) link
How widespread is this Persian/Iranian/Zoroastrian return to glory idea? That black metal guy talks a lot like the guy I know but less extreme.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:48 (seven years ago) link
The thing that I remember seeing recently about excluding more and more identities from whiteness was someone disparaging Russians and Slavic ppl like "Shut up, you're not even WITE." So I mean who gets to be wite now? I guess...Swedes and Danes and Englanders but only if you can trace your genetic heritage to a Viking raider?
I mean I get it. This is about wanting to be a Viking since you were 6 years old. No, really, I get it. Everybody has a dream. Mine was to be an Amazon. I didn't grow up to be someone who doxxed Scythians on the internet tho.
― the world's little sunbeam (in orbit), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
How the fuck can you defend a text that has six points called 'preliminaries'? Sometimes I really doubt your mental capabilities, Mordy...
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
― the world's little sunbeam (in orbit), Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:54 AM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this isn't recent. 19th century racial pseudoscience, including the dude who gave us the term caucasian to mean white people, often excluded slavs
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:02 (seven years ago) link
the Nazis considered Italians and Spanish to be less industrious Aryans and Sweden/Norway as the purest Aryan group (the Germans being a southern branch of this race). Slavs and Romani were, like Jews, considered subhuman. I think some of this has to do w/ their conception of Christianity as a Jewish imposition on the Pagan races. Sweden/Norway would therefore not just have the phenotype that Nazis were obsessed w/ (the blond hair, blue eyes) but they would also be [among?] the more recent converts to Christianity in Europe and still have roots to their Pagan past. So it sorta is like wanting to be a Viking. xxp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:03 (seven years ago) link
WWII that's where nazis are vikings
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
"Sleep! That's where I'm a pure white person."
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
new thread title
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
Yes please! Thanks for that LOL, Dan.
― syzygy stardust (suzy), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:36 (seven years ago) link
Dan almost killing me with that comment and the new display name
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 14 March 2017 19:44 (seven years ago) link
― emil.y
Co-sign, this was very good, thanks.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 08:09 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/dogdadbod/status/841626193464037377
Though I'm not sure this is good (I am sure it's just a couple of guys dicking around) - 'everyone' knows that YouTube comments are a vast cesspool, but if you see them as a battleground that you're winning then that can be empowering in not-good ways.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 11:14 (seven years ago) link
it'd be like someone getting clowned on ilx and saying "but I'm really popular on twitter!"
― mh 😏, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:47 (seven years ago) link
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, March 15, 2017 4:09 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes
― marcos, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:48 (seven years ago) link
+1
― an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Wednesday, 15 March 2017 13:56 (seven years ago) link
In re: different variations of what "white" means, I think there's more likely to be defintions that exclude slavic and/or latin peoples in Europe because these are more likely to be immigrant groups working menial jobs - which is what's behind these theories 90% of the time, right? HOWEVER I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc. There's a certain irony to choosing "isolationist racist" as an identity based on foreign sources.
I don't know if it's an American thing at all! My impression was that Portuguese and Spanish are seen as White in the USA - to distinguish them from people from Central and South America, who're latino. I've seen much more of a notion of Southern European countries being seen as lazy, incompetent, etc. in France and Germany (tho this doesn't often take the tack o racial supremacy, I'll grant you), again because in those countries people from Portugal and Spain are more likely to have been "the help" in the recent past. Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.
I agree current white supremacists don't give a fuck about religion, which is partly why I found that dude so pathetic in the first place - modern, flippant alt-right shit just doesn't jive with religion. But my thinking was more that if this guy showed up to a rally of theirs all "yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!" he wouldn't get much traction. Or maybe they'd indulge him, I dunno.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 16 March 2017 10:57 (seven years ago) link
Talking from a UK perspective, Portugal and Spain have both historically been imperial powers and, indeed, rivals to British imperialism, so throw that into the mix. I have no idea about France and Germany but, in the UK, people from Portugal and Spain have never been associated with menial employment or laziness - we had plenty of Commonwealth immigrants, so less need to belittle anyone else. This is absolutely OTM tho:
I think that younger European internet nazis are less likely to indulge in this because their bigotry is mostly learned from US sources - I think a lot of old school far-right people would be quite distraught by how much of the younger fascists take their cues entirely from US media, worship Trump, etc.
A lot of it is shoehorned in and makes much less sense in a European context.
― Ongar Is An Energy (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 March 2017 11:11 (seven years ago) link
"yes my Christian brothers, let us vanquish the muslim threat in the name of our Virgin Mary!"
You do see some of this with UK nazis - crusades/knights templar type of thing.
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 16 March 2017 11:44 (seven years ago) link
Have certainly seen UK racists make arguments that Eastern Europeans aren't white fwiw.
Roma probably. I doubt they would seriously say that about Poles et al.
― Ongar Is An Energy (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 March 2017 11:58 (seven years ago) link
You know how many Poles died at Auschwitz et al.?
― hardcore dilettante, Friday, 17 March 2017 18:45 (seven years ago) link
Lots of anti-Polish sentiment in England for sure.
― hardcore dilettante, Friday, 17 March 2017 18:46 (seven years ago) link
there is a huge amount of anti-polish sentiment but no-one would say they aren't white
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Friday, 17 March 2017 18:49 (seven years ago) link
this boils my blood, not that far right shit would be palatable if it were more authentic and autochthonous, but seeing a person on twitter talking about "libtards" and then clicking on their profile to find that they're in britain just adds an extra-dimension of rage to my reaction
― Islamic State of Mind (jim in vancouver), Friday, 17 March 2017 18:50 (seven years ago) link
Have you seen those Polish guys? With the pasty faces and shaven heads... every single one of them? They're like the whitest people on the planet.
― Ongar Is An Energy (Tom D.), Saturday, 18 March 2017 00:40 (seven years ago) link
They're angry!
http://gizmodo.com/gab-ceo-andrew-torba-is-mad-online-1793502299
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 March 2017 23:26 (seven years ago) link
enjoyed this juxtaposition from this conspiracy dude
https://twitter.com/USlawreview/status/844601707539693568
― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 27 March 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link
good lord but twitter is full of nutcases
― tales of a scorched-earth nothing (Doctor Casino), Monday, 27 March 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
I keep an eye on r/the_donald to see what the shits are up to from time to time, downvote everything, etc.
Their hero, as much as Trump or Milo or whoever, is Paul Joseph Watson. I have never been on there without seeing one of his fucking tweets. Today he came out against the Syria bombings and t_d went into total meltdown - it was a few hours before they managed to get everyone on-message again, and the old confidence still seems shaken even now.
The thing I'm interested in is what they are going to do when the Trump project becomes an undeniable failure in one way or another (you may think this is already the case, but oh boy do they have excuses)
Anyway, if people are interested I can give updates from time to time, or you can follow this link to go there yourself - https://www.reddit.com/r/EaglesTrophyCase+The_Donald/
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Friday, 7 April 2017 20:06 (six years ago) link
Alexander Dugin, the absurdly overhyped 'philosopher' loved by Richard Spencer, Bannon, et al, has just been fired from the hardline conservative Russian TV station he was employed at and, I believe, the Katehon think tank. Not a good day for their heroes.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Friday, 7 April 2017 20:21 (six years ago) link
"You’re going to end up in World War Three over Syria if we listen to Hillary Clinton. You’re not fighting Syria any more, you’re fighting Syria, Russia and Iran, all right?”
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 7 April 2017 22:44 (six years ago) link
"I will not hesitate to deploy military force when there is no alternative. But if America fights, it must fight to win. I will never send our finest into battle unless necessary – and will only do so if we have a plan for victory."
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 7 April 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/03/28/the-darkness-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-artificial-intelligence-and-neoreaction/
this article on nrx, techno-utopianism, techno-dystopianism, etc etc is p good
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Friday, 7 April 2017 23:48 (six years ago) link
o_O at some of the photos on Shane Bauer's twitter right now: https://twitter.com/shane_bauer
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9e5zU5UAAAY0GN.jpg
― soref, Saturday, 15 April 2017 21:28 (six years ago) link
'come and take it' where 'it' is their virginity, presumably
― years of immersion in the seduction community (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 15 April 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/the-duke-lacrosse-scandal-and-the-birth-of-the-alt-right.html
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 15 April 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/04/15/todays-berkeley-beat-down-planned-action-by-the-alt-right/
It's so totally unsurprising these stupid fucks would plan to pose as black bloc and do it all out on the internet
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Sunday, 16 April 2017 12:40 (six years ago) link
I don't really think that's what's happening there - the 'steal antifas look' meme doesn't seem to be serious, unlike the instructions to dress like basedstickman, who has been a thing for a couple of months. Also burn Twitter to the ground.
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 16 April 2017 17:27 (six years ago) link
Ann Coulters speaking at cal on the 19th
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Sunday, 16 April 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
At least Coulter has one identifiable talent; she can put together more coherent sentences than the President of the United States.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Sunday, 16 April 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
some more about the berkeley skirmish: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a54564/the-violent-clashes-in-berkeley-werent-pro-trump-versus-anti-trump/
― Mordy, Monday, 17 April 2017 17:28 (six years ago) link
seems p otm to me. Both sides use Berkeley as a de facto "performance space" to, shall we say, "heighten the contradictions". Obviously I'm sympathetic to one side more than the other, but yeah this isn't so much about Trump as it is both groups taking an advantage of a situation to confront each other.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 April 2017 17:36 (six years ago) link
Yeah but the ones throwing bagels and carrying fake viking shit around deserve to be composted
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Monday, 17 April 2017 17:39 (six years ago) link
The white nationalist figure known as Based Stick Man
― Jolyon + On + On (Mr Andy M), Monday, 17 April 2017 17:48 (six years ago) link
'Proud Boys' feels like it should be the name of an early Wham single.
The new thing to me in Berkeley was that the alt-right won. Trumpkins', neo-nazis, militias, veterans, they came down in force, and they overwhelmed the anti-fa opposition. That's worth remembering the next time anyone uses a nazi demonstration where there's ten nazis and fivehoundred anti-nazis to claim that the alt-right really isn't that dangerous.
― Frederik B, Monday, 17 April 2017 18:09 (six years ago) link
they overwhelmed the anti-fa opposition
I didn't get this impression from eyewitnesses, that's an odd reading
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 April 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
"Shane Bauer ✔@shane_bauerMilitias, alt-right, nazis etc won today in Berkeley. They outnumbered the opposition, pushed it back, and held downtown. Today's America.1:28 AM - 16 Apr 2017"
― Frederik B, Monday, 17 April 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
it is the emerging reading, and the narrative I got both from friend's FB posts as it unfolded and popularly strengthened by the Shane Bauer twitter feed on saturday. all incredibly distressing.
https://twitter.com/shane_bauer?lang=en
― Milton Parker, Monday, 17 April 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
huh. stuff I heard made it seem more like a free-for-all, but I'm not on the facebooks
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 April 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
ugh i hope this shit burns itself out before trump gets replaced, be it at the ballot box in 2020 or before. but i'm probably going to be disappointed. again.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 17 April 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
Violent people won a punch-up? Fuck metro 🚋
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Monday, 17 April 2017 18:27 (six years ago) link
Autocorrect hilarity
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Monday, 17 April 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
That photo of the Nazi putz kneeling with his carton of milk. Gamergate seemed to weaponise all these desocialised Anime obsessives into rightwing churls, and while part of me feels compelled to laugh, it's really unsettling how quickly they were seduced, and I wonder what larger damage they can cause. They're like laughable villains from a bad dystopian Frank Miller Batman comic, which they've probably read. I wonder if these dudes ever realise that, ever have a Mitchell & Webb-esque "Maybe we're the bad guys?" revelation.
― Len's flares (stevie), Monday, 17 April 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
something up in east Londonfrom feb, the ld50 art gallery hosts a lot of far right ish, gets protestshttps://nytimes.com/2017/02/25/arts/design/london-gallery-ld50-alt-right-show-protest.htmlsame group of protesters call for dismissal of Nick Land from the New Centre for Research & Practicehttps://shutdownld50.tumblr.com/post/158928600961/no-platform-for-land-on-nick-lands-racist...according to this post by a Peruvian student of his, it happenedhttps://medium.com/@gcarloms/crapitulation-on-the-new-centres-sacking-of-nick-land-330b1dc0c6f5
― goole, Monday, 17 April 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
xpost
a lot of the left/right narratives shuffle themselves around a bit as you crawl through the interviews of moderate, minority pro-Trump supporters Bauer posted on his feed. I don't know what some of them would say about having chosen to stand on the side of the (numerous) guys throwing sieg heils, I don't know what the guys who brought 2 liter milk cartons to swig from make of having substantial Black / Latino support for Trump & free speech; but it shouldn't be too surprising that they all get on well enough so that by the end, after the militant fascists have chased away antifa, everyone left (the people who came to support the free speech rally) all get on well enough to do a few rounds around MLK park, KPFA & Shattuck BART all chanting USA. that is something you don't see every day.
I am a tiny bit frustrated with some of Bauer's 140-character takeaways summing up the whole struggle as being fascists against anti-fascists. on one level, totally fair, the actual core beatdowns undoubtedly were precisely that, and yes I was not there and I am grateful he was. but too many of the interviews he posted get at something more heartbroken. passionate people who really are trying to navigate patriotism and the ongoing free speech experiment in 2017, who didn't come to fight.
― Milton Parker, Monday, 17 April 2017 19:21 (six years ago) link
after having rewatched the entirety of the videos on Bauer's feed though... it would be extremely naive not to admit that the core of that crowd did explicitly show for a fight, and got exactly the fight they wanted.
― Milton Parker, Monday, 17 April 2017 20:38 (six years ago) link
If US politics ever comes down to whichever group can win a street brawl, I'm not going to be of any further political use.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Monday, 17 April 2017 20:42 (six years ago) link
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless)
when politics comes down to who can win a street brawl- which, multiple times in the past, it has- the prognosis for governance is generally not good.
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Monday, 17 April 2017 20:46 (six years ago) link
That's pretty much the history of the South until the 1960's...
― Frederik B, Monday, 17 April 2017 20:47 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Monday, 17 April 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
Please don't bother enlightening us anymore on that, Fred.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Monday, 17 April 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9fKdvhXUAAjNyZ.jpg
― soref, Monday, 17 April 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
At age 62 my street brawling skills have pretty much faded away. That's more of a young person's game. Ditto for my smartphone video recoding skills.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Monday, 17 April 2017 23:03 (six years ago) link
have spent the better part of the day so far fighting with two or three dimwits on a friend's FB timeline who kept declaring that Antifa was in the wrong in Berkeley and how the left are all violent free speech suppressors, while giving a pass to Identity Evropa et all who actually planned the fight ("I don't know that that group was there; I don't know that they actually did 'seig heil' signs, those pictures are fake; BLM and Antifa are equal to the KKK and these are all terrorist groups, etc"). Got nowhere, wound up just blocking some shitheads.
― akm, Tuesday, 18 April 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
2017: blockin shitheads
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 18 April 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2017/04/18/the-man-behind-the-neo-nazi-daily-stormer-website-is-being-sued-by-one-of-his-troll-storm-targets/
― Len's flares (stevie), Wednesday, 19 April 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
had a similar experience with someone like that, they were completely unable to engage with me in good faith so i gave up and ya blocked them xxp
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 19 April 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
Had a chat yesterday with a friend who's not big on internet culture and it's still a challenge to explain any of this shit.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 20 April 2017 09:22 (six years ago) link
i saw a link to something recently that advertised the journalist as something like "she visits 4chan so you don't have to" but i don't remember who wrote it (laurie penny maybe?) or where it was published. this is such a shot in the dark but does anyone know what article i'm talking about?
― Mordy, Sunday, 30 April 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
You might be thinking of Angela Nagle--could be this one ("The New Man of 4chan") or this one ("Paleocons for Porn").
― JRN, Sunday, 30 April 2017 19:42 (six years ago) link
kill all normies
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Sunday, 30 April 2017 19:49 (six years ago) link
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/04/beyond-alt-understanding-the-new-far-right.html
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 1 May 2017 14:07 (six years ago) link
looking fwd to maureen o'connor's contribs especially
― goole, Monday, 1 May 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
a lengthy and drier version of much of this same info was put together here:
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2017/01/20/ctrl-alt-delete-report-on-the-alternative-right/
― goole, Monday, 1 May 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
https://soundcloud.com/deadpundits/ep-9-exiting-the-culture-warrior-clusterfck-w-angela-nagle
hesitate to recommend this bc i find the interviewer/host kind of an unbearable prick but the interview itself is really good- in-depth and thought-provoking even when i didn't find myself entirely agreeing.
― oiocha, Monday, 1 May 2017 18:04 (six years ago) link
lol i listened to his interview with freddie deboer a few weeks ago and it was truly next level douchebaggery
― Mordy, Monday, 1 May 2017 18:07 (six years ago) link
his interview subjects are generally good but he's definitely doing a lot of damage by being a walking brocialist stereotype.
― oiocha, Monday, 1 May 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link
Do we think... Angela Nagle isn't doing herself any favours being interviewed by a brocialist douche? Almost like... Angela Nagl lol thanks I;m here all weak
― why labour 'foot problems' since 2015? (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 11:09 (six years ago) link
https://thesportsavenue.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/refyellowcard.jpg
― adolf hitler, the moses hightower of national socialism (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 11:13 (six years ago) link
Does that mean I'm suspended for the next alt-right thread
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gazza+tears&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi42Iv-itHTAhUPb1AKHaw2A1IQ_AUICigB&biw=1409&bih=770#imgrc=ZFzhtY42FoscVM:
― why labour 'foot problems' since 2015? (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 11:18 (six years ago) link
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/564459/thumbs/r-GAZZA-large570.jpg?4
― why labour 'foot problems' since 2015? (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 11:19 (six years ago) link
i don't make the rules, i only enforce them
― adolf hitler, the moses hightower of national socialism (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 11:21 (six years ago) link
Been thinking about how up until recent years the crank philosophy versions of misogyny were completely unfamiliar to me. My first awareness of masculinist/MRA stuff was Tom Cruise in Magnolia. Nearest thing I'd seen in Britain was a romantic comedy I can't remember the name of and Jim Davidson going on a rant about properly hating women, which were shockingly weird but it didn't seem to have all that crank ideology behind it.
Before the internet was this a familiar type of person in America? I still find a lot of this stuff deeply alien and all the bizarre fetishism that comes with it seems like an elaborate hoax.
Everybody knows about crazy evangelical Christians and conspiracy theorists in America but the only type of cranks that seem familiar around me are stoner conspiracy theorists, George Galloway types, hari krishna people, freeman (is that what they're called?) people and some varieties of spiritualists and occultists. Don't really know how what our conspiracy theorists were like before the internet and I don't know if British nationalists really got that far into the really wacky stuff.
I know some people who're into conspiracy theories, haven't really spoke to them recently but I'm kind of worried they could have been sucked into right wing stuff online. I know someone who's been sort of radicalized by American Christian television.
Has Paul Joseph Watson always pandered to the American right wing side of conspiracy theorists?
It's probably a bad sign but I get excited when American right wing science fiction authors get up to their shenanigans. There's something really fascinating about this stuff, like studying and cataloguing a rare species.
Summed up question to people from anywhere: what were your cranks, hardcore misogynists and racists like before and after the internet and is there a big American influence?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 May 2017 13:28 (six years ago) link
Don't really know how what our conspiracy theorists were like before the internet
i suppose it depends on how far back you want to go "before the internet". i've been reading primary documentation from the witch hunts. for hundreds of years it was seen as a globalist conspiracy to destroy civilization. pre-medieval era the common practice was to throw the accused to wild animals. once the Inquisition came down in earnest they had to change that to burning at the stake because so many witches were women. this is where western civilization comes from.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 5 May 2017 13:46 (six years ago) link
Everybody knows about crazy evangelical Christians and conspiracy theorists in America but the only type of cranks that seem familiar around me are stoner conspiracy theorists, George Galloway types, hari krishna people, freeman (is that what they're called?) people and some varieties of spiritualists and occultists.
I used to be friends on FB with a 40something rave promoter, don't even remember how I got there. Anyway his posts were mostly of the innocous pics of the family/Bob Marley quotes variety but as brexit dawned there was a big discussion on his profile where he and his mates agreed that Leave would never win because the illuminati would never allow it to happen. Felt tempted to post something like "looks like yer worldwide conspiracy fucked this one up proper eh?" after the vote but unfriended instead.
I guess that counts as "stoner conspiracy theorist" but with an unexpected right-wing bent.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 6 May 2017 10:32 (six years ago) link
Aren't there a lot of lefties who were leavers and talk about illuminati stuff?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 6 May 2017 10:44 (six years ago) link
I mean there's leftie leavers and leftie illuminati crazies, I dunno if there's much of a crossover between them. But that certainly didn't seem to be the tone there.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 6 May 2017 11:20 (six years ago) link
Huge crossover there, some of which is very anti-Semitic.
― syzygy stardust (suzy), Saturday, 6 May 2017 13:30 (six years ago) link
So, alt-right watchers: did they break out the bud light after the vote this week too?
― your cognitive privilege (El Tomboto), Saturday, 6 May 2017 14:31 (six years ago) link
milk and bud lite cocktails all around
― sexualing healing (crüt), Saturday, 6 May 2017 14:45 (six years ago) link
RIP Pepe
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 7 May 2017 22:17 (six years ago) link
anti-semites for bernie, that's kind of a weird thing
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Sunday, 7 May 2017 22:47 (six years ago) link
death of pepe long overdue
― your cognitive privilege (El Tomboto), Monday, 8 May 2017 00:12 (six years ago) link
Well the alt-right version will certainly live on and the original is definitely preferable.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 8 May 2017 00:41 (six years ago) link
what a supreme headfuck for Matt Furie
― flappy bird, Monday, 8 May 2017 03:30 (six years ago) link
article about alt-right talking points cropping up on Chinese social media
https://www.opendemocracy.net/digitaliberties/chenchen-zhang/curious-rise-of-white-left-as-chinese-internet-insult
Seen from the perspective of international relations, the anti-baizuo discourse can be understood as part of what William A. Callahan calls ‘negative soft power’, that is, constructing the Chinese self through ‘the deliberate creation and then exclusion’ of Others as ‘barbarians’ or otherwise inferior. Criticisms of the ‘white left’ against the background of the European refugee crisis fit especially well with the ‘rising China’ versus ‘Europe in decline’ narrative. According to Baidu Trends, one of the most related keywords to baizuo was huimie: “to destroy”. Articles with titles such as ‘the white left are destroying Europe’ were widely circulated.
― soref, Sunday, 14 May 2017 02:32 (six years ago) link
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/torch-wielding-protesters-gather-at-lee-park/article_201dc390-384d-11e7-bf16-fb43de0f5d38.html
― pickety third (stevie), Sunday, 14 May 2017 10:50 (six years ago) link
I kinda love how the various non-Spencer statue supporters are all 'we reject hate and white supremacy, no really'
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 14 May 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
Not really that surprising that ethnic nationalist ideas would find a home in the PRC
― your cognitive privilege (El Tomboto), Sunday, 14 May 2017 15:11 (six years ago) link
i want to say something about baizuo.
nationalistic far left (far left in the chinese context = chinese identity, territorial integrity, love the party, reform has ruined the country) thinking isn't rare on the chinese internet.and this fits with much of pretty mainstream chinese political thought ie. - reforms from the left are the road to disaster (whether it's prague in 1968 or shenzhen in 1992 or washington in 2016), - maybe william a. callahan is right but the west is decadent has been a frequent theme in crackdowns like the anti-spiritual pollution campaign that began in 1982 (there was criticism then too of focusing on "human rights" as something that could be disconnected from marxist-leninist economic thought, anti-baizuo is 2016 zhao ziyang) + the most recent party line banning textbooks and teaching that promotes “western values."
in 1982 and 2016-17 getting the people to get out against foreign decadence and reforms of capitalism from the left were related to political games/factions within the party fighting it out.
i think something like anti-baizuo is mostly the above with the added influence of online gaming shit talk and weaponized memes from alt right from the u.s.a./netto uyoku from japan. but nothing new really, i don't think. also kind of the same as frederick b.'s love of talking shit about american politics from northern europe, it's just a bit of internet fun.
― dylannn, Sunday, 14 May 2017 16:25 (six years ago) link
that baizuo article was fascinating, glad to see it popped up here
― goole, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
In an academic-style essay that was retweeted more than 7000 times on Weibo, a user named ‘fantasy lover Mr. Liu’ ‘reviewed’ European philosophy from Voltaire and Marx to Adorno and Foucault, concluding that the ‘white left’ as a 'spiritual epidemic' is on its way to self-destruction. He then stated that Trump’s win was only “a small victory over this spiritual epidemic of humankind”, but “western civilization is still far from its self-redemption”. However ridiculous it may appear, the post is illustrative of how a demonized Other is projected onto seemingly objective or academic criticisms of the ‘white left’. Ultimately, the more the ‘white left’ – whatever it means – represent the fatal weakness of democracy, the more institutional and normative security the Chinese regime enjoys. The grassroots campaign against the ‘white left’ thus echoes the officially-sanctioned campaign against ‘universal values’, providing a negative evidence for the superiority of the Chinese self.
if this interp is correct, it's pretty fashy to me
― goole, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:17 (six years ago) link
grotesque or just seamless trolling?
Rhododendron • 2 days agoI don't think you go far enough. I'm a Chinese-American, born and raised in the west, well versed in western culture and free from China's cultural climate. I despise liberal democracy, equality, and other retrograde values that the west seems to love.
The "white left" describes a phenomenon that goes beyond cultural barriers. People around the world have noticed that whites, at least northern/western Europeans, have a problematic level of compassion that overcomes rationality. This is why they believe that equality is a good thing, or that empathy is a substitute for actual politics.
One does not need to actually live in western society to realize that hierarchy and social inequity are the hallmarks of higher civilization, and that undue sympathy for the "little guy" is inherently damaging to the core (i.e. privileged) demographics that make up a nation.
Your criticism of the anti-baizuo movement is therefore lacking in global and historical context. Your assumption that racism or bigotry is a bad thing without further examination is surreal, and indicative of your own disconnect from the rest of humanity. The Chinese critics are right. The west is not a legitimate standard. It is not at all superior, morally or intellectually. The idea that people are/should be equals is a profound form of ignorance. Their ideas need to be challenged, undermined, and replaced.
Liberal democracy, and its accompanying values represent a small bubble created by the minds of white men. It is not normal, and rightly criticized by non-whites as the dangerous, backwards, emotionally incontinent ideology that it is. Its critics in China simply articulate it better than others.
As Chinese, you and I have a responsibility to change western countries from within so that they match the experiences of humanity in general. We should be pushing for moral and cultural reforms to normalize their countries, not buying into their failed ideas just because they "sound nice".
― goole, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:21 (six years ago) link
People around the world have noticed that whites, at least northern/western Europeans, have a problematic level of compassion that overcomes rationality.
Yup, that's our international reputation all right!
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 15 May 2017 16:23 (six years ago) link
xp lol and that guy still can't catch a break from the nazi in the next column, who tells him to fuck off back to China.
― The Adventures Of Whiteman (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 15 May 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
some more investigation and i'm convinced that i mischaracterized anti-baizuo but this is... even less of a thing. the single english language source takes it more seriously than the few chinese language mentions outside of a small online community. 幻想狂劉先生 who also goes by der letzte kämpfer, the author of the essay quoted in the piece is representative: super into european fascism, posts a lot of pictures of swords and lists his relationship status as single. the essay is here: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4907084254
― dylannn, Monday, 15 May 2017 18:33 (six years ago) link
super into european fascism, posts a lot of pictures of swords and lists his relationship status as single.
so some things are globally universal, the irony
― goole, Monday, 15 May 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
juicy!
https://twitter.com/TheNotoriousPAX
― goole, Tuesday, 16 May 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
alt-right experiencing massive psychosis re seth rich atm
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
Yeah. But apparently a lot of bots involved as well. It's been trending like crazy since yesterday. Probably coordinated.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:55 (six years ago) link
such a horrific situation.
― goole, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:32 (six years ago) link
r/the_d----d is going absolutely bonkers over it
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 16:48 (six years ago) link
What's happening?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
super short version: a DNC staffer was murdered and some crackpot released a statement saying he was in contact with wikileaks before it happened. family denies it, fbi denies it, 4chan types are going down insane conspiracy theory paths because thats what they do.
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:16 (six years ago) link
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/16/media/seth-rich-family-response-claims-of-wikileaks-contact/
― PJD PDJ DPJ (DJP), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
Vince Foster did it
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:20 (six years ago) link
Fox News was all over that as well. Sigh.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:26 (six years ago) link
The extremely dark thing is that they don't even care about the murder. I thought the story was big because the implication was that Hillary had some guy murdered, but they don't give a shit about that, the point is that it potentially absolves Russia for the hacking and leaking. It's so extremely ghoulish.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:31 (six years ago) link
exactly - these are the same people who fantasize about murdering black people in the streets. I guess it's notable because what should have just been a Breitbart/Infowars level thing is now becoming a FOX News thing, which seems uh...significant
― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
u just want to shake these morons but it's best just to observe and not intervene. prime directive.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
Well, as long as they stay on their own little planet I kinda don't even want to observe. I spent a week in March writing an exposé of a 'researcher' who was making the rounds in the Danish film debate circles, without anybody looking at where he came from. So utterly exhausting just scrolling through pages and pages of hate and misogyny.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
was it the same dude who did an 'study' that was essentially mining every okc user and publishing their sexual interests? that guy was danish.
― goole, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:04 (six years ago) link
emil kirkegaard
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:11 (six years ago) link
Didn't the dam separating Breitbart/Infowars from Fox News break some time ago? Genuinely asking.
― gospodin simmel, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
Oh God, I'd forgotten about him. No, Emil doesn't care about culture. This guy wrote about frogs in the seventies, then got rejected by a woman and decided to use statistics to prove that women are evil. Old guy, PUAhater, all that stuff. Claims he can't be misogynistic because his a dancer.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
the_donald is going full-on about this seth rich thing, still. Most recent thing is claiming there's a conspiracy to keep it out of the news, when, as you might be aware, Hilary isn't president, it's still a conspiracy theory, and oh yeah some other news is going on with this guy your subreddit is supposed to be about, how about that eh?
Meanwhile their mates have decided to do this to the transgender webcomic 'Assigned Male' for some reason;
http://i.imgur.com/iJkh2gl.jpg
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 21:45 (six years ago) link
From what I can tell the entire scenario is a Fox News closed loop: FNC contributor encouraged the Rich family to hire Wheeler, another FNC contributor, who was the source for the bombshell report that they ran, except that he now says that all his Wikileaks-related info came from the Fox reporter who interviewed him.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 22:03 (six years ago) link
Wikileaks also retweeted the story without comment, but Wikileaks's retweets have been pretty trolly for oh about six months
The Podestas' "Spirit Cooking" dinner?It's not what you think.It's blood, sperm and breastmilk.But mostly blood.https://t.co/gGPWFS3B2H pic.twitter.com/I43KiiraDh— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 4, 2016
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 18 May 2017 09:35 (six years ago) link
Wikileaks twitter now saying that Mueller sold uranium to the Russians, conveniently forgets to mention it was a sting operation
― frogbs, Thursday, 18 May 2017 16:56 (six years ago) link
sorry guys i know it seems weird to bring it up after hilary murdered a dude but i translated the academic-style essay in chenchen zhang's white left thing and you can read my hot take on it too: https://medium.com/@dylanleviking/a-translation-and-a-few-brief-notes-on-the-anti-white-left-c75012fafbe0
― dylannn, Friday, 19 May 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
oh wow - thanks! that looks awesome. will def read after work.
― Mordy, Friday, 19 May 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
I really enjoyed reading that Dylan. I don't know the Chinese version but I think you managed to "preserve the overblown tone" alright ;)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 20 May 2017 12:30 (six years ago) link
thanks, dudes! the opendemocracy piece is getting HEAT on alt right sites, tremendous shares, huge, with nobody really getting that these chinese anti-white left guys are not people that hate refugees and gays (some of them do!) but are offering a mirror world version of far left criticisms of identity politics with more vitriol and authoritarianism. trump's win is a victory only because it drives a stake through the heart of the old left and should point the way toward true revolution.
― dylannn, Saturday, 20 May 2017 13:24 (six years ago) link
thanks for this dylann. this dude's extremely condensed, profane run-down of european intellectual history is hilarious.
― Treeship, Saturday, 20 May 2017 13:59 (six years ago) link
it's... weird how he takes a bunch of artists and writers like oscar wilde, van gogh, and maupussant and lumps them all in together as part of a decadent "white left," as if these people formed some sort of movement that was self-consciously opposed to radical marxism.
― Treeship, Saturday, 20 May 2017 14:04 (six years ago) link
i guess they are just avatars of "decadent" liberalism but still. this is a problem i have had with some western marxists too btw -- they minimize everyone to a specific role in a game of toy soldiers that exists only in their head.
― Treeship, Saturday, 20 May 2017 14:05 (six years ago) link
usually they know better than to make fascist sounding claims about modernist art being a spiritual plague tho.
i'll finish reading the piece before i post again.
― Treeship, Saturday, 20 May 2017 14:08 (six years ago) link
this week i was listening to a shitty thrash metal band from wuhan named "skullcrusher". they cover "orgasmatron", "die by the sword", "we are 138"... and "guilty of being white". fuck knows what that song means to them.
― Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 May 2017 14:20 (six years ago) link
http://p.weibo.com/show/channerWbH5/1034:dddb6896993ee9fa6e231d147edfcc52
tucker on baizuo
― dylannn, Sunday, 21 May 2017 07:42 (six years ago) link
http://youtu.be/LjzWwM9Y9zg
― dylannn, Saturday, 27 May 2017 21:48 (six years ago) link
really breaks it down
Just thinking about a similarity with British lads magazines and 4chan style cruel humour.
Always found it confusing how much lads magazines featured violent injuries/death and extreme deformity. I was never quite sure what to make of it but it did seem partially like you were supposed to laugh at horrible misfortune.
It seemed even more out of place in Bizarre magazine (kind of a goth/emo/punk Suicide Girls style magazine), even considering how the readership would be into more morbid stuff generally.
Always found those freak book scenes in Curb Your Enthusiasm quite disturbing for this. Maybe Larry intended to make himself look awful or maybe he really finds things like that funny?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 1 June 2017 02:22 (six years ago) link
dylannn sucks
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 1 June 2017 02:24 (six years ago) link
are you unironically posting these vids dylannn? lol gtfo
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 1 June 2017 03:17 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAQh11flgL4
― dylannn, Thursday, 1 June 2017 03:24 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wyh87MS4LPs
― dylannn, Thursday, 1 June 2017 03:29 (six years ago) link
pretty sad when anthony cumia is smarter than everyone on the entire left
Pay what? I offered 000 to the first person who tweets me evidence of Trump having committed treason against the US. Still stands. https://t.co/AdbpxbNXrY— Anthony Cumia (@AnthonyCumia) May 13, 2017
― dylannn, Thursday, 1 June 2017 03:34 (six years ago) link
I am assuming that dylannn is not being serious when he links a YouTube where someone stands in front of a whiteboard with the main headings "Trump's Trip" / "Seth Rich" / "Alien Space Threat" and captions it "really breaks it down" - but I might be too generous.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 1 June 2017 08:42 (six years ago) link
anything that pisses off Globalists and Dimms is legal under the stigginit clause of the Constitution
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 3 June 2017 02:53 (six years ago) link
I saw 'social justice warrior' translated to Danish for the first time today. They translated it wrongly, though, as if it's about warriors for justice, who are actually quite social.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 3 June 2017 11:05 (six years ago) link
― sexualing healing (crüt), Saturday, 3 June 2017 12:09 (six years ago) link
gregarious equality mercenaries
― President Keyes, Tuesday, 6 June 2017 12:51 (six years ago) link
Review of Angela Nagle's relevant new book:
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/kill-all-normies-the-alt-right-s-new-turn-1.3104338
― Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Tuesday, 6 June 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
arch-catholic koch/mercatus functionary writes up the LD50 right-wing internet art show, in some new reactionary journal
http://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/26/life-and-death-on-the-content-farm/
Unfazed, LD50 Gallery re-opened on May Day with a new participatory show, CORPOREALITY, put together by several of the subjects of the first controversial exhibit. Twitter users @Kantbot10K and @Logo_Daedalus—both of “Donald Trump will Complete the System of German Idealism” (Google it) fame—pitched in, along with satirist @Menaquinone4 and YouTube surrealist TV KWA.
CORPOREALITY casts the viewer as the latest hire of an “exciting new business venture” known as KWALY. This revolutionary new social media start-up promises to professionalize (and monetize) the nasty business of sanitizing synthetic spaces by ceding control of ideas to “a morally superior enclave of progressive thought leaders.”
fyi "kwa" is short for "amerikwa" which comes from a white nationalist/antisemitic essay about atlantic city from 15 years ago.
― goole, Thursday, 8 June 2017 15:04 (six years ago) link
Still really confused about what LD50's "thing" is. Feels like blatant publicity stunts to prepare for an actual product that never comes?
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 8 June 2017 16:25 (six years ago) link
idk seems like the gallery management really like fashy stuff
― goole, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 21:44 (six years ago) link
this essay, by (some kind of) leftist poli sci prof, was making the rounds a while back
http://jmrphy.net/blog/2017/03/27/is-it-dangerous-to-engage-seriously-with-radical-right-wing-thinkers/
seems both credulous and self-regarding if u ask me
I should like to become a worthy opponent of the smart wings of the new reaction, rather than merely pretend they are stupid
ok buddy! i bet he goes full right within 12mo
― goole, Wednesday, 14 June 2017 21:46 (six years ago) link
just fyi in case anyone was wondering what LD50 means
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_lethal_dose
― gbx, Thursday, 15 June 2017 00:27 (six years ago) link
ah
― goole, Thursday, 15 June 2017 17:04 (six years ago) link
just cracked nagle's book and obama's first name is spelled 'barak' in the opening sentence of the introduction, good work everyone
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 June 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
i promise i'm not gonna liveblog my pedantry but 25 pages or so in and there's been a bunch of really obvious typos that make me wonder if anyone proofread this thing at all
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 June 2017 19:44 (six years ago) link
I noticed that too. Shoddy work considering the years of horseshit AN had to wade through to write it!
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 16 June 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
This is worth preserving here, for a quick 'n' easy laugh:
🚨 Breaking: Leaked email: Milo Yiannopoulos begging liberal Samantha Bee to interview him. pic.twitter.com/scfma3J8Z0— The Reagan Battalion (@ReaganBattalion) June 16, 2017
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 16 June 2017 20:00 (six years ago) link
hahaha oh that is perfect
― Οὖτις, Friday, 16 June 2017 20:01 (six years ago) link
lol what a loser
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 June 2017 20:07 (six years ago) link
Loving the ppl in the replies going "that's not begging". People unable to look past this kind of PR twaddle falling for Milo makes sense.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 17 June 2017 09:12 (six years ago) link
A spelling mistake in the first sentence of the book? Angela nagl imo
― The Adventures Of Whiteman (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 17 June 2017 11:15 (six years ago) link
this is one of the funniest things i've seen in awhile
BREAKING: Julius Ceasar Gets SHUTDOWN pic.twitter.com/ITgfMR0tHE— Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) June 17, 2017
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 17 June 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 17 June 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
you are all gerbles
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Saturday, 17 June 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
did someone say gerbils?
https://media.giphy.com/media/2HAbDP9Lc4TDO/giphy.gif
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 17 June 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
Knew ud post a pic of ur man dick
― i n f i n i t y (∞), Saturday, 17 June 2017 17:36 (six years ago) link
luv2dick
― cast your vote for fully automated gay space luxury communism (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 17 June 2017 17:47 (six years ago) link
been under twitter assault by wave after wave of pepe chodes this afternoon after engaging on this topic this afternoon. They are so BAD at it. One of em accused me of "hiding behind a fake profile pic" because my profile pic is of Norm Peterson covered in kittens. Then another googled and found a v flattering pic of me DJing 10 years ago and he and all these other reddit troll-lets started harping on about how skinny I was. Honey, I *wish I was still that skinny. They reminded me of the dudes in that Kids In The Hall sketch about the guys with the shortest tubes in North York.
― Who's puttin' sponge in the zings I once zung (stevie), Saturday, 17 June 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
Like, them and that Nazi who got punch and this Goebbels-screaming motherfucker, they're so sad and pathetic and inept. They are full sideshow.
yep- crucially, they're not funny in the slightest and that's how you know they're wrong
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 17 June 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
(well, intentionally funny)
One day this new forum member joins and says absolutely everything is worthless, pointless and meaningless, then next day he cites a heap of far right philosophers who talk about the importance and purpose of strict social divisions.
Then he asked me "what's wrong with racism?"
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 17 June 2017 19:40 (six years ago) link
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/06/21/competing-alt-right-free-speech-rallies-reveal-infighting-over-white-nationalism
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 25 June 2017 17:18 (six years ago) link
Gawd
― softie (silby), Monday, 26 June 2017 01:20 (six years ago) link
http://www.newsweek.com/protests-over-celebrity-jokes-about-trump-assassination-draws-just-100-people-628893
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 26 June 2017 01:22 (six years ago) link
https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2017/06/27/2190408/a-weekend-in-texas-with-zerohedge-readers-part-1/
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 09:58 (six years ago) link
can u c&p?
― goole, Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
You know what it's not even a very good article.
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 27 June 2017 21:58 (six years ago) link
http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/07/angela-nagles-kill-all-normies-the-alt-right-and-4chan.html
Nagle, of course, is herself on the political left, and Kill All Normies reflects her frustrations with intra-left political disputes of the last five years, which have tended to pit identitarians against a more explicitly socialist left. At one level, Nagle suggests that there was a symbiosis between the social-justice left and the alt-right: The left’s tendency to focus on racial and sexual identity while explicitly demonizing privileged groups — notably straight white men — may have pushed members of these groups into the arms of the alt-right, while the stronger the alt-right became, the more it confirmed the social-justice left in the belief that its critics, even those on the left, were either Nazis or Nazis’ useful idiots. But aside from such direct symbiosis, Nagle suspects — rightly in my view — that the real damage of the “Tumblrization of left-politics” may have been to spur a “brain drain from the left,” as people fled from a political brand increasingly associated with hysteria, witch-hunting, and intolerance of dissent. She writes in her conclusion that the left’s “embarrassing and toxic online politics” have made it “a laughing stock for a whole new generation” — a dynamic typified by the recent student protests at Evergreen State, which, to outsiders at least, look totally insane.
― Treeship, Friday, 14 July 2017 04:49 (six years ago) link
this quote is actually more interesting
Building on Joy Press and Simon Reynolds’s work in The Sex Revolts, Nagle traces this sensibility from its roots in the Marquis de Sade and Nietzsche to its explosion in the youth movements of the 1960s, noting how the basic form of revolt — transgression against the dominant morality for its own sake — stays the same even as the nominally “left” or “right” political content changes depending on the morality it rebels against. When the dominant morality was that of the white Christian America of the 1950s or even the moral majority of the 1970s, transgression assumed a progressive air. Yet in the last two decades or so, the moral code preached by the commanding heights of American culture has been a sort of neutered Baby Boomer liberalism, one that champions multicultural tolerance, a soft, health-conscious hedonism, and the entrepreneurial spirit — a marriage between ‘60s social progressivism and the conservative economic turn of the ‘70s and ‘80s. Many of the values of the alt-right, including its ethno-nationalism, slacker shitposting ethic, and antipathy to the sexual revolution are best understood as negations of this progressive status quo.
― Treeship, Friday, 14 July 2017 04:51 (six years ago) link
may have been to spur a “brain drain from the left,” as people fled from a political brand increasingly associated with hysteria, witch-hunting, and intolerance of dissent.
So is the argument that today's brainboxes are apolitical? 'Cause they sure aren't on the alt-right.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 14 July 2017 08:55 (six years ago) link
She writes in her conclusion that the left’s “embarrassing and toxic online politics” have made it “a laughing stock for a whole new generation”
Nothing of the left can be as laughable as this conclusion.
― nashwan, Friday, 14 July 2017 09:29 (six years ago) link
embarrassing and toxic hyperbole
― ramen play on 10 (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 July 2017 09:33 (six years ago) link
i do support her "kill all normies" stance tho
― ramen play on 10 (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 July 2017 09:34 (six years ago) link
Never thought of either the reactionary right or the left as a natural home for the especially thoughtful or intelligent
― El Tomboto, Friday, 14 July 2017 10:18 (six years ago) link
If the guy in the Che shirt with the fucking acoustic guitar at the march didn't cause some brain drain I don't know what would
― El Tomboto, Friday, 14 July 2017 10:19 (six years ago) link
if normies has become an alt-right thing that's sadder than Pepe :(
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 14 July 2017 10:23 (six years ago) link
I'm not sure Nagle's book can be quite as bad as all the glowing reviews make it sound but will defer to someone who had read it.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Friday, 14 July 2017 10:29 (six years ago) link
so: would ignatius j. reilly qualify as "alt-right"?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Friday, 14 July 2017 12:36 (six years ago) link
i was just on Facebook and was wondering what happened to this guy i knew from college who moved to L.A. a bit after i did and tried to make it as a musician. anyway, he flamed out and once he started blaming L.A. for his problems and lack of success (rather than the fact that he was trying to peddle an image of either a Marlon Brandon-type biker or a vampire who i think was supposed to be eerie but came off like Count Chocula), I blocked him and hadn't followed him since. i checked in on him and he's turned into a complete infowars/milo minion and his bitterness about his failures is transparently driving him. lots of "liberal tears" type cackling. i wonder how many alt-right types are exactly like this. anyway, kind of depressing to see.
― nomar, Friday, 14 July 2017 16:49 (six years ago) link
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Friday, July 14, 2017 5:36 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he's a trad cath
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 14 July 2017 17:05 (six years ago) link
you guys are the worst
― Treeship, Sunday, 16 July 2017 03:16 (six years ago) link
nagle is at least trying to situate the alt right in some kind of context. these people are flirting with incredibly dangerous ideologies so providing an account of them seems like a pretty necessary task.
her main claims are not even controversial. of course people are attracted to the alt right because of the thrill of transgression. of course the internet created a situation where norms were continually reinforced, even policed, creating conditions for backlash. and of course there is real pain and feelings of marginalization behind the hatred we are seeing. it doesn't excuse any of it, of course. the tumblr left isn't "to blame" for the alt right. but all online political movements exist in dialectic with one another, not in their own little vacuums. the alt right is a product of our society and it has to be understood as such to be confronted and defeated.
― Treeship, Sunday, 16 July 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link
of course the internet created a situation where norms were continually reinforced, even policed, creating conditions for backlash.
This really isn't a description of the internet that I recognise - there are subcultures where that happens because, well, because a shared set of norms is part of the definition of a subculture. But it isn't even "this is Tumblr", more "this is the bit of Tumblr that gets a lot of press because it's a demographic that people who write opinion pieces consider exotic" - and there's lot of other bits of the internet.
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:20 (six years ago) link
internet-focused racists and the far right
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-chronicle-of-predation-appetites-and-power
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 17 July 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
once he started blaming L.A. for his problems and lack of success (rather than the fact that he was trying to peddle an image of either a Marlon Brandon-type biker or a vampire who i think was supposed to be eerie but came off like Count Chocula)
I am HOWLING
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 17 July 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
he claims he was now doing grad school at Harvard but his photos felt suspiciously generic.
in college, he was pretty much an Elliott Rodgers type of guy, minus a bit of the bitterness but with a lot of received wisdom about women. he was always trying for this manly self improvement shit, trying to conquer the female question, etc via lifting and being a real bro and not really achieving his goals in whatsoever. my most key memory of him was how he did me the solid of borrowing my copy of "Sublime" by Sublime and playing it so much, handling so frequently, that he ended up scratching it so that it wouldn't play anymore.
― nomar, Monday, 17 July 2017 20:00 (six years ago) link
this guy just photographed the fired google kid
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/magazine/the-annie-leibovitz-of-the-alt-right.html
― goole, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
is the NYT clear on what's "coded" and what isn't anymore
But he had recently gotten himself into trouble over a series of coded anti-Semitic tweets. (“Jews control the News,” he wrote in one; in another he referenced the “JQ,” or “Jewish question.”)
― goole, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
lol no they seem very confused
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
Rmde
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:22 (six years ago) link
next up: he's going to photograph the jogger who randomly pushed a woman in front of a bus in London
― nomar, Thursday, 10 August 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
i agree w the key point of this generally bad article that south park set the stage for this shit somewhat
https://theestablishment.co/how-south-park-helped-empower-the-alt-right-a65abcc88c9b
― ogmor, Friday, 11 August 2017 09:40 (six years ago) link
sometimes i think my biggest beef with SP, besides not being nearly as funny as even its apologists on the Left insist, might be giving two generations of morons space to shit on climate science they don't understand, waving it all away as "lol ManBearPig"
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 11 August 2017 13:06 (six years ago) link
South Park probably helped greasing the slide but the majority of the points aren't totally convincing. They certainly use Cartman to be gleefully sadistic but they also use him as a punching bag and a representation of the worst people, then there's odd things like using him to say that Family Guy is too cruel. Stan and Kyle clearly represent Parker and Stone.
There's a similar problem with gangster films in no matter how awful and pathetic they make the gangsters look, some people are still going to think they're awesome.
They did ManBearPig but there was also "We didn't listen".
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 11 August 2017 13:11 (six years ago) link
i mean, i'm a moron who doesn't necessarily understand it all, either, but i'm not relying on a cartoon by two libertarian d-bags as my sociopolitical bible
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 11 August 2017 13:13 (six years ago) link
fair, but i'm not sure that's the general takeaway. kinda like how ppl w/ really identified with/ cheered Archie Bunker, but more EXTREME
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 11 August 2017 13:18 (six years ago) link
I think it's more fair to say South Park is an earlier manifestation of some of the same impulses. Correlation not causation, etc.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 11 August 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
weren't they both "lol global warming panic, the weather hasn't changed" episodes
I kind of enjoy SP's dedication towards taking the dumbest possible stance on political and social issues, though I do wonder if nowadays they've changed their "actually both sides are equally bad when you think about it" attitude
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2017 14:54 (six years ago) link
I might be wrong but I taken "we didn't listen" as a jab at climate change deniers.
As indefensible, boring and dumb I find a lot of stuff in South Park, occasionally they had something to say that was more interesting than I think Simpsons would have done.
They seemed quite explicit about Trump being way worse than Clinton.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:06 (six years ago) link
haven't seen the episode in a decade but I thought that one was poking fun at the hysteria
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:30 (six years ago) link
What hysteria?
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Friday, 11 August 2017 15:41 (six years ago) link
the whole "global warming is going to kill us all" thing
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:44 (six years ago) link
Huh? I have seen almost nobody publically take Climate Change as seriously as it has to be taken.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Friday, 11 August 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
The problem is not a cartoon but rather damaged people constructing a worldview around a cartoon.
― Say, I Heard You Had a Quarrel With Your Best Girl (Old Lunch), Friday, 11 August 2017 15:53 (six years ago) link
well yeah. its just what the cartoon appeared to be mocking. it's idiotic.
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
http://www.salon.com/2017/08/11/alt-right-shindig-neo-fascists-plan-giant-rally-to-support-confederate-flag-what-could-go-wrong/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 11 August 2017 16:28 (six years ago) link
when you say this, yes, of course, nobody would do that. but when you consider that a show has been on tv for 20 years, that some people who weren't even born when it started are now voting age, that now there is an entire generation raised by it, that it has achieved Walmart-level of cultural ubiquity (yes, Wal-Mart, who they "eviscerated" sells their DVDs, plushies, t-shirts, keychains, etc.) , clearly it has had some wide-reaching impact. even if it isn't specifically on issues themselves it has promoted nihilism, cynicism and other toxic ideas and attitudes.
whenever the SP debate crops up a lot of the criticism is that people are missing the jokes or too stupid to get the satire. this is beside the point. if they are selling a product that is so mass marketed that ironic racism can be taken the wrong way, they need to address it. now that they have made their careers off the public, they have a responsibility towards that same public.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 August 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
fwiw also their attack on Trump was very weak, they just ran w the "he doesn't really want to run!" thing the whole story, and the Canadian Trump thing was only for one show. PC Police was a far more involved storyline.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 August 2017 20:38 (six years ago) link
I hear they're totally avoiding politics for their next season
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Friday, 11 August 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
of course, nobody would do that.
oh i think that idiot Stephen miller (the other one) and his "SouthPark Repubs" kind of do do that.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 11 August 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
would prefer they just avoided making a tv show altogether
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
so much to answer for
like, there's a direct line ime between SP's ridiculous libertarian shitbag politics and that recent Google manifesto, techbro culture was weaned on SP
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
It's the "we mock both sides!" crap that skewers the idea you should care at all about institutions or politics and makes people assume there are small differences or things are all, if not equally bad, just bad.
I have a friend who is relatively level-headed but if I made some point about the debates pre-election or a specific issue he'd mention "oh it's like X and Y, always complaining about.." where X and Y were whatever caricature of the candidates South Park had created. Yeah, no, you can't laugh off particular issues when depending on how votes go, it could mean survival or death for people that don't live they way you do. If you're white and straight and not in poverty and you're laughing off racial or sexual politics, fuck off
― mh, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
i think it is smarter to focus on the characters more and this is their strength. storytelling focus more on the town itself and these characters we love. back to the heart music.
whenever they used a political topic, say BLM, school shootings, or Syrian refugees/Whole Foods(?), it felt exploitative. and not just of the fictional refugees living in a Whole Foods parking lot (makes you think!). it felt like an act of creative desperation. like Homer becoming a Hip Hop producer it feels like a contrivance to seem relevant.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 August 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
why change now, they've been doing that for 20+ years
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
trump's presidency basically turning america into a real life SP ep and oh NOW you want to "avoid politics"
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 11 August 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
haha yup
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:14 (six years ago) link
Anyway, fat Nazis
The Daily Stormer ran a story complaining that American neo-Nazis are too large to be taken seriously pic.twitter.com/FFwcgnTEjA— Will Sommer (@willsommer) August 11, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
you have it the other way around. America has been acting like Trump for over two hundred years. Hillary lost cos she was a bad candidate and ran a bad campaign. the overall election was so negative that most people didn't vote, so only hardcore fans voted for their candidates, and the media wants you to believe that there has been a crazy paradigm shift to sell your eyeballs.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 11 August 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
xp before & after
http://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/16/f98e9cb498fb1bf4fcbd979ebff90a960964ea_lq/goering.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e8/a7/41/e8a741956832b95d24aeffde0f416442--historie-world-war.jpg
― soref, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:47 (six years ago) link
I recommend this dietary regime for all american nazis
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 August 2017 21:53 (six years ago) link
I'm with Οὖτις and Adam on the South Park thing
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Friday, 11 August 2017 21:58 (six years ago) link
It might be 'smart' but it's smart as in smart-arse libertarian 13 year old boy smart
With a definite hard-edged elitism going on - there's a small group in the know, who are smart, and everyone else in the village is dumb
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Friday, 11 August 2017 22:04 (six years ago) link
So there is nothing we could possibly gain from talking to the angry, dumb, adults - angry people/dumb people (the same) have nothing worthwhile to tell us
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Friday, 11 August 2017 22:08 (six years ago) link
i think the thing w/south park is it's a show that makes me feel kinda bad for some reason, like how i felt reading the Gavin Mc1nnes era of Vice Magazine. which it bears a similarity to in how it kinda alt-ed all kinds of bigotry and seemed to think empathy was for suckers or i guess now cuckers.
― nomar, Friday, 11 August 2017 22:35 (six years ago) link
though i think it was more part of the shifting landscape than one of the main causes of it.
― nomar, Friday, 11 August 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
angry people/dumb people (the same)
I call them 'anger dummies'.
― how's life, Saturday, 12 August 2017 00:57 (six years ago) link
I call the big one "fighty"
― seven mambas (m bison), Saturday, 12 August 2017 01:04 (six years ago) link
my South Park anecdote -
one grad school summer i interned in Boulder, CO. i found a random craigslist place and thought everyone would be cool...actually i remember i already blogged about all this shit years ago on another thread. but to cut to the chase, they were all climate hoaxers, one of them told me that his biggest dream was to own a yacht, and south park was on 24/7. ever since then i associate SP with total dipshits
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 01:05 (six years ago) link
You guys watching this march on UVA?
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 03:12 (six years ago) link
Massive brawl breaks out, tiki torches thrown as #UniteTheRight reaches Jefferson monument in #Charlottesville. Chemicals dispersed pic.twitter.com/NsepwZC0Te— Alex Rubinstein (@RealAlexRubi) August 12, 2017
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link
My hometown :(http://wvtf.org/post/alt-right-rally-sparks-positive-action
― sleeve, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:06 (six years ago) link
― sleeve, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:09 (six years ago) link
Oops, sorry horseshoe, did not realize that was the same link
― sleeve, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:10 (six years ago) link
pretty sure i saw a nazi salute in the midst of that video
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:14 (six years ago) link
There are def Nazi salutes, chants of "blood and soil" and a woman tells a counter-protestor he "sounds like a n-----"
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:20 (six years ago) link
a wapo reporter tweeted that the Nazi/Klan protestors pepper sprayed the counter protestors
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:21 (six years ago) link
Hope the judge who reinstated their permit is pleased about this.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:23 (six years ago) link
White nationalist alt-right torchlit march going through UVA grounds: "you will not replace us" pic.twitter.com/QS8ebI9XOW— Tim Dodson (@Tim_Dodson) August 12, 2017
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:25 (six years ago) link
creepy as fuck
anyone who knows any of these people should cut them out of their lives immediately and warn everyone they know about what terrible fucking people they are
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:26 (six years ago) link
i don't think i know any alt right people. i don't really know hardly anyone anymore tbh. but if i did, i would write a letter to wherever they worked and tell their business owners that they're employing neo-nazis and that i would boycott the business until they were fired
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:27 (six years ago) link
that'll show them, in my hypothetical universe
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 04:28 (six years ago) link
i think you're right and i'm not sure if it would "work" in all cases but i'd say it's our responsibility to do it
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 05:09 (six years ago) link
I've been advised by my security that #Charlottesville is too dangerous for me to speak at #UniteTheRight so I'll leave the war to the men— Wife With A Purpose (@apurposefulwife) August 12, 2017
jfc the alt-right is fucked up
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 05:49 (six years ago) link
i guess i cannot judge, as a husband without a purpose
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 05:52 (six years ago) link
Always good to see anonymous fash accounts with a blue tick.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 12 August 2017 06:21 (six years ago) link
I can't believe I clicked on this thread tonight of all nights and saw a heated discussion about South Park smh
― billstevejim, Saturday, 12 August 2017 06:31 (six years ago) link
Twitter feed is filled with lots of photos of these asshole. I hope leads to real life consequences for them, loss of jobs, public disgrace, etc.
― Moodles, Saturday, 12 August 2017 06:34 (six years ago) link
The big rally is today. There are crazy pictures and videos on Twitter already.
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
i was surprised there weren't 100 new posts when i woke up today
apparently protesters and clergy have already been attacked with brass knuckles and bats??
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link
i'm watching a live shot on MSNBC of a group of people beating a protester with signs, and zero police around
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:41 (six years ago) link
Wtf
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:44 (six years ago) link
Is there a good roundup of Tweets from this yet?
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
trump has said nothing
ctrl+F for "Charlottesville" on breitbart and drudge report, nothing
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:46 (six years ago) link
https://twitter.com/hashtag/Charlottesville
also disturbing to see guns everywhere. virginia is an open carry state.
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:52 (six years ago) link
Charlottesville just declared it an "Unlawful gathering", so perhaps that means the police will actually start doing something
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 15:55 (six years ago) link
Wapo has a piece
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
Gov McCauliffe declares state of emergency
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
i haven't been watching the footage - how many of these people are fat?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:30 (six years ago) link
From the videos above, most of them seem to have gotten the memo. This gathering was primarily made up of people who had recently played on a lacrosse or football team, probably.
― how's life, Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:34 (six years ago) link
tbf all the SP discussion was before the nazi rally so
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:55 (six years ago) link
Has the KKK ever officially/formally been branded a terrorist organization?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:56 (six years ago) link
David Duke today in #Charlottesville talking how how the hate rally "fulfills the promises of Donald Trump." pic.twitter.com/nvldJpykvA— Joanna Robinson (@jowrotethis) August 12, 2017
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
Melanie Trump tweeted a tepid condemnation of...something the Nazis (of course she didn't call them that). Still no word from Trump.
Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let's communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence. #Charlottesville— Melania Trump (@FLOTUS) August 12, 2017
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:01 (six years ago) link
Reports on Twitter that Richard Spencer's been arrested?
― horseshoe, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:02 (six years ago) link
he was just live on twitter
― Mordy, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:04 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHC8xr_WAAMm3bz.jpg
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:33 (six years ago) link
yeah could just be a similarly looking white dude w/ a part in his hair. he really was live on twitter half hour ago after the rumors started. and inside and talking about how no one should be outside protesting bc it's too dangerous.
― Mordy, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:40 (six years ago) link
Hope that's some dogshit his face is on.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:42 (six years ago) link
you know, just some other Hitler youth looking dude, nothing to see here.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
the uniformity is part of the political program
― Mordy, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:47 (six years ago) link
apparently Baked Alaska is having a rough day
― JoeStork, Saturday, 12 August 2017 17:55 (six years ago) link
ugh at all of this
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
Vehicle plows into counter protestors a la isis?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
Alex RubinsteinVerified account @RealAlexRubi 20m20 minutes agoMoreReplying to @RealAlexRubi#BREAKING: I just watched a car plow through dozens of protesters. Extremely heavy injuries #Charlottesville
(there's a video, and it's graphic)
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
oh christ
― JoeStork, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:14 (six years ago) link
here's raw footage of it happening, for those who want to see it.
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
you can see a couple cars slowly making their way through a large group of counter-protesters, and then suddenly another car slams into the back of the cars, then immediately goes into reverse and leaves the scene.
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:19 (six years ago) link
I didn't want to watch it, but I watched because I feel like I needed to.
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
Not confirmed yet but hoping the police got them
I saw the driver of this car get arrested https://t.co/vX4nepobaf— bad soda (@doctordangatang) August 12, 2017
― devvvine, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
i don't know what that is, other than the blatant attempted murder of dozens of people
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
Yeah, there's no escaping from that.
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:24 (six years ago) link
i wonder if the police will brutalize them
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
This is still happening?
― Treeship, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:30 (six years ago) link
i fucking hate the usa
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:31 (six years ago) link
I hope there's a crowd sourced effort to document faces and identifying info for every fucking tiki-torch neo-Nazi. Let them regret this for the rest of their lives.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
msnbc still reporting that they don't know if it was intentional or not. another graphic video, but this shows beyond a shadow of doubt that it was. it's a video from behind the car that did it, and you can hear the tires squeal as they slam on the gas toward the protesters. you can hear screaming, and then a few seconds the car flies backward through the same alley at a crazy speed.
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
I want to know who they are and where they came from. It looks like they are straight up self declared white suprematists, not just dickface provocateurs like Trump or Bannon who court this stuff but avoid directly fulminating against the Jews or whatever.
Very scary.
― Treeship, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
Is someone can get away with doing something like that in broad daylight in a crowd of self-documenting protestors, then nothing works any more.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
jfc MSNBC is a garbage news organization
they STILL can't report this straight. they're still confused about what happened
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
I'm sure they'll catch this guy and book him for attempted mass murder.
― Treeship, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
i don't think they'll get away, they're driving a totaled Dodge Charger around
He was already arrested.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
Confirmed, or they just found the car?
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
illinois license plate "BDR 529"
fuck these racist sexist nazis
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
now msnbc has finally obtained a video of the actual crash, and they're showing it on a loop, just over and over. i haven't watched msnbc report live news in a long time, i didn't realize they were this fucking terrible
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
@Josh, a redditor claimed to witness the arrest.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
GODKPME
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 12 August 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
why does everyone keep calling it an accident??????
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
it totally wasn't an accident. video shows a dodge charger plowing into GODKPME and BDR 529 and then slamming into reverse and speeding out of there. arrest these nazi fucks already
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:08 (six years ago) link
Wow:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHDTYf7XUAAww0M.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link
BTW, confirmation via this reporter's feed:
https://twitter.com/TaylorLorenz
...that car and driver are being held, and witness statements being taken.
Sadly, it appears (via the mayor and other statements) that there has been at least one fatality.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:30 (six years ago) link
What does BDR 529 and GODKPME means?
Also, xpost photo could be triggering to some people.
― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:36 (six years ago) link
re that picture : fuck.
no way am i watching any videos of that.
― mark e, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
God keep me? First one's probably just state-issued.
― JoeStork, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
GODKPME: GodKockPunchMe.
You do the best you can with the letters and numbers you have.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:43 (six years ago) link
I really wish people on my feed weren't RT'ing the video. I wish I hadn't seen it.
― billstevejim, Saturday, 12 August 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
ohio plates
GVF 1111
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 12 August 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
Nothing reasonable or measured about my thoughts at times like these.
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 12 August 2017 21:43 (six years ago) link
4chan anon types identified the owner of Ohio GVF1111 as Jer0me Vanghe1uwe, a Trump donor. Google proofed because we just don't know...
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:00 (six years ago) link
also we don't know if someone stole that car, or if a friend borrowed the car, etc
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:03 (six years ago) link
This is the car that plowed through a crowd at the #UniteTheRight rally. Stopped along Monticello Ave. pic.twitter.com/7Uf4lHfAf9— Dean Seal (@JDeanSeal) August 12, 2017
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:05 (six years ago) link
It's freaking me out that 9 out of 10 responses to this fairly tepid Chuck Schumer tweet is angrily demanding he condemn BLM and Antifa. WTF?
Of course we condemn ALL that hate stands for. Until @POTUS specifically condemns alt-right action in Charlottesville, he hasnt done his job— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) August 12, 2017
― Moodles, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:21 (six years ago) link
i would guess that 9 out of 10 of those responses are from people who either identify with the alt-right or have condoned them through silence over the last year and are too far in to back out without ostracizing them from their shitty friends
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:23 (six years ago) link
I'm sure they are, but it's fucked up that they appear to represent the vast majority of responses.
― Moodles, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:25 (six years ago) link
Like most people are looking at this shitshow today and their first response is democrats aren't doing enough to stand up to BLM?
― Moodles, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:26 (six years ago) link
i guess it's because people on the left don't really follow chuck schumer that closely, whereas people on the right probably view him as one of the left's supreme leaders that we all look to for guidance and direction, so they attack his every word? i don't know, i could be off on that. but i don't know too many people on the left who pay that much attention to schumer or retweet him, etc
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link
like, i follow various liberals on twitter and it's never occurred to me to follow chuck schumer
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:31 (six years ago) link
I've commented on this in vociferous anti-racist terms on other forums, and been downvoted into oblivion. There's a lot (or at least appears to be a lot) of them, they want their race war and ethnic Bantustans, they think they're winning, they think "It's Happening", and they're happy.
As with the election of Trump, the response to this has made me deeply ashamed of the country of my birth.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link
it is quite alarming to see but you have to remind yourself that if 90% of americans thought BLM was worse than these alt right fools trump wouldn't have a 35% approval rating
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:40 (six years ago) link
It's so galling. If there was not rampant police violence against black people, there would be no BLM. If there were no fascists, there would be no Antifa. But the only things that would make fascism vanish would be no blacks, no Jews, no gay people ...
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:41 (six years ago) link
― Moodles
possibly twitter is an irredeemable shithole and people whose first response is to respond to chuck schumer's tweet on the attack do not represent the cream of humanity?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:43 (six years ago) link
...no immigrants, no uppity women, no Muslims, no atheists, no environmentalists, no scientists...
Going back too few generations no Catholics, no Irish-Americans, no Italian-Americans.
IMO, any president who doesn't single out white nationalists and condemn them in the most uncertain terms doesn't understand America, and its role in the world.
Fuck him. Mississippi Goddamn.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:49 (six years ago) link
Fuck.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:52 (six years ago) link
Trump has offered his support for...a police officer who died today?
Deepest condolences to the families & fellow officers of the VA State Police who died today. You're all among the best this nation produces.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 12, 2017
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:56 (six years ago) link
Police helicopter crashed, two fatalities
― devvvine, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:57 (six years ago) link
i mean, that's good i guess. i didn't realize a police officer died today. but, it'd be cool if he also offered his condolences to the family of the woman who died today at the hands of a neo-nazi attending a rally that he refused to specifically condemn
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:58 (six years ago) link
helicopter crash? wtf is going on?
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 22:58 (six years ago) link
rushomancy, I'm sure you are at least partially correct, but seeing their numbers and the events of the past day really clarifies the mind. US nazis can't just be laughed off or ignored, they need to be confronted head on.
― Moodles, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:01 (six years ago) link
jesus christ, in the second video Karl posted, you can see a shoe either falling off the car or out of the car’s front grill.
― mh, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:01 (six years ago) link
Still hasn't condemned the bombing of a Minnesota mosque this week. Seb Gorka says is a "false flag".
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:02 (six years ago) link
This is the guy wrongly accused by 4chan fwiw
https://www.facebook.com/joel.notavailable/posts/10208922637693890
― global tetrahedron, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:04 (six years ago) link
ok, but how the hell does one "confront" people whose response to confrontation is to drive a fucking car at you?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:12 (six years ago) link
Murder them first imo
― softie (silby), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:17 (six years ago) link
Tired of ppl calling themselves "the resistance" w/o seeking to put guns in ppl's hands
🙄
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:19 (six years ago) link
these assholes are better at killing and are quicker to resort to violence. they will _always_ be better at killing and quicker to resort to violence. i'm not going to shoot anybody or run over richard spencer with a car.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
I don't want to win, I just want to murder a Nazi, any Nazi
― softie (silby), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
then you need to listen to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCgtCGMHhzM
you can't listen to novelty moog pop and maintain a state of murderous rage
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:24 (six years ago) link
I only have two moods, anxiety-driven quietism and violent fantasies
― softie (silby), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
There should be more leftist terrorism in this country though, can't abide the terror gap
Sorry I deleted twitter off my phone so this is the text box I'm spewing bullshit into today
― softie (silby), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:26 (six years ago) link
Very understandable, but please do not go out and attack the nearest local nazi - they'll be a nasty, tooled up piece of work, and whether they attack you back or you get arrested, you'd be wasting what power you do have to effect change for the better
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:29 (six years ago) link
i thought we were all old people here. don't spew your violent fantasies onto a public discussion board? is kind of rule one here?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:31 (six years ago) link
xp i feel you silby i have violent fantasies too (cf are you considering buying a gun thread) when i see this stuff but i feel like it's more corrosive to the spirit than cathartic to put them out there
― the late great, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:34 (six years ago) link
it'd be cool if he also offered his condolences to the family of the woman who died today
He did that too, with his usual eloquence and wisdom.
Condolences to the family of the young woman killed today, and best regards to all of those injured, in Charlottesville, Virginia. So sad!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 12, 2017
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:36 (six years ago) link
I feel uplifted. Like I've just farted.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
eh, i'm glad he eventually got around to it. honestly i thought he'd just never acknowledge what happened.
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:40 (six years ago) link
my bar is set very, very low for donald trump
A number of liberal gun owners have been more vocal of late.
I'm not adverse to documenting names addresses etc of confirmed neo-Nazis. In the event they get their civil war and the FBI doesn't take care of them.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:41 (six years ago) link
it would be nice to know where they work so i can make sure i never give any money to their employer
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:42 (six years ago) link
If done as a public archive, they may never find employment.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:44 (six years ago) link
Though I think the sponsors of any such archive should make provisions for sincere apologies and personal growth.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:45 (six years ago) link
best regards to all who were injured, hope this tweet finds you well, injured, but well
― j., Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:57 (six years ago) link
so sad! in the crying sense! not the pathetic one!
― j., Saturday, 12 August 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
Agree all the nazis should be doxxed and publicly shamed get on it 4chan og wai
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:03 (six years ago) link
A respectful email signoff to all of those injured
― jmm, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:07 (six years ago) link
when i think back to the trump years and twitter i'll just think
Great! Sad! Great! Sad! So Great! So Sad! Great! Sad!
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:13 (six years ago) link
alt-right before alt-right was alt!
https://www.thenation.com/article/exclusive-lee-atwaters-infamous-1981-interview-southern-strategy/
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:14 (six years ago) link
Gofundme for medical costs for the injured victims
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:27 (six years ago) link
I have no theoretical problem with violence against nazis, it's more of a strategic and tactical issue for me - what are you trying to accomplish and how does whatever tactic you use further your goals? Punching Spencer on camera was great. It made him look weak. It made a perfect viral meme. Nazi violence works differently. The goal of driving a car into protesters is to intimidate, to make people think twice about showing up. Same with open carry. Same with carrying torches and yelling. Only a handful of actual violent incidents, only one fatal, but the goal is to terrorize. The question is can anti-nazis effectively intimidate nazis and is that the best approach? I think it's much better, if possible, to just be present in absolutely overwhelmingly greater numbers. That's intimidating too. But they can provoke and use asymmetric tactics (like driving a car into a crowd). I'm not really sure what the answer is, just this is how I'm trying to think about it. How do you win the ground battle? How do you win the media battle?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:33 (six years ago) link
But randomly lashing out and punching nazis scattershot is not necessarily effective. These alt right groups are more disciplined than that.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:34 (six years ago) link
Out on FB folks are already blowing up photos of these fools, isolating faces in squares, and writing "do you know me, are you my employer, I was at a nazi rally in charlottesville va on 8/12/17"
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:36 (six years ago) link
xp i think you're right about numbers. i think large groups of people using nonviolent tactics for a just cause can and will eventually win
― the late great, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:36 (six years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Saturday, August 12, 2017
late to this, but I think there are a lot of bots/multiple online identities at work here
as I mentioned, this is my hometown. A high school friend's son was among those injured by the car, thankfully not seriously.
http://www.mkgandhi.org/speeches/dandi_march.htm
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:44 (six years ago) link
(I can only hope that this is a national moment similar to the Salt March incidents)
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:46 (six years ago) link
Driver identified as James Alex Fields Jr.
A man with the same name and age was booked Saturday on suspicion of second-degree murder, malicious wounding, failure to stop for an accident involving a death, and hit and run
Elsewhere, he's identified as former US Army and registered Republican.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:49 (six years ago) link
These alt right groups are more disciplined than that.
Lol r u serious these ppl are clowns playing dress up and should be ridiculed (and punched, when necessary) as such. The dude driving the car was sime 19 yo panicky jackass from toledo.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
man alive otm. Violent fantasies are unhelpful. We don't need am antifa vs fascist ground war that makes the right and left look like a moral wash to the disengaged
Despite trump's win, most people are not sympathetic to swastika tattooed people or people who attack people with their car. Perfect situation for nonviolent tactics
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:52 (six years ago) link
xposted from Trump thread:
https://www.gofundme.com/medical-fund-for-comrades-in-cville
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:53 (six years ago) link
Where was this thing organized? r/thedonald? More subterranean parts of the web?
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:55 (six years ago) link
Lol r u serious these ppl are clowns playing dress up and should be ridiculed (and punched, when necessary) as such.
http://i.imgur.com/NOAJ6gK.jpg
― The Man Who Saw The Midwife (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Sunday, 13 August 2017 00:57 (six years ago) link
!
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:00 (six years ago) link
Captain America would be so proud
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:02 (six years ago) link
I'm 100% serious. They're dumb, conformist foot soldiers and the people organizing them are smart.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:03 (six years ago) link
Who are they?
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:04 (six years ago) link
The organizers
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:07 (six years ago) link
Is it not in part Spencer? I thought the torch thing was his hallmark.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:08 (six years ago) link
If I read that WaPo story correctly, this James Alex Fields Jr. who owns the car that killed the antifa counter-protestor was being held without bail at the time of the fatal attack. This points to perhaps a 'friend' or acquaintance of his taking advantage of Fields having an airtight alibi and cloaking his identity by borrowing the car. That's what I understood from it at least.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:09 (six years ago) link
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:12 (six years ago) link
the_donald are fairly hands-off on this, calling it a George Soros operation.
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:39 (six years ago) link
i have nothing useful to add to the discussion of the horrible events in charlottesville. but as far as violent fantasies go I would just add that given the society we live in, going out and committing violent acts, or even many nonviolent ones, needs to be weighed against the reality of who will bear the consequences and reprisals. lotta times the shit-starters, however righteously they may be fired up, are not the ones who are going to face police violence or deportation or worse later on. also I think violence is wrong. that is all.
― yellow is the color of some raisins (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:40 (six years ago) link
Nazis starting to be IDed
when the main dude in this photo is in most of your history classes and always spouts fascist and racist comments pic.twitter.com/PIH3uXbqaZ— Bailey M. Gamberg (@bayymontana) August 12, 2017
― Moodles, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:49 (six years ago) link
Also, in case the identity of the driver was still in question
NBC News: James Alex Fields Jr., age 20, has been charged with second degree murder in connection with the car ramming in Charlottesvile. pic.twitter.com/XW6oIXcC6r— Tom Winter (@Tom_Winter) August 13, 2017
― Moodles, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:54 (six years ago) link
thanks for that, sincerely
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
if one of these dudes tries to act physically intimidating in a one-on-one confrontation I fully support jacking them in the groin as hard as you can
― mh, Sunday, 13 August 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
then steal their car keys
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/opinion/charlottesville-and-the-bigotocracy.html?mwrsm=Facebook
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:01 (six years ago) link
https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20768212_10155678053549744_5889283837034084343_n.jpg?oh=1d8d78729fdc10d37626333f4aa029b0&oe=5A2694E0
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:05 (six years ago) link
Then use the keys to gouge their eyes out, lay them on the ground in front of their car, and use the keys to start the car and drive back and forth over their neck and waist. Hack their phone and send pictures of the results to their family.
There should be no oxygen for white nationalists in my country. They should be beaten and starved to death, every one. Oubliettes, and shame for their parents.
I'm pissed.
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:16 (six years ago) link
The more I read about it, the more I'm very happy about how hard the counterprotestors fought back against the fascists, especially after reading that Richard Spencer was tweeting to followers to leave Charlottesville.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:20 (six years ago) link
xp/tom on this we agree
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:24 (six years ago) link
shame for their parents
Shame, but maybe a bit of sympathy.
Mr. Fields’ mother, expressed disbelief upon learning Saturday of the accusations against her son. She said he told her last week he was going to an “alt-right” rally in Virginia, but didn't know what it was about."I try to stay out of his political views. I don't get too involved,” she told The Blade. "I told him to be careful ... if they are going to rally, to make sure he is doing it peacefully," she said, before breaking down in tears.
"I try to stay out of his political views. I don't get too involved,” she told The Blade.
"I told him to be careful ... if they are going to rally, to make sure he is doing it peacefully," she said, before breaking down in tears.
― #IMPOTUS (Sanpaku), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:26 (six years ago) link
fuuuuuck i hate having to sound like Internet Police but can we please please please not have the violent fantasies, thanks. yes i want these fuckstains dead, no i am not going to kill them, no i am not going to describe in exquisite detail in public how i would like them to die.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:26 (six years ago) link
NAME EVERY FACE. https://t.co/G35eNOu7AO— Queen Dylizabeth (@kosherDYL) August 12, 2017
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:28 (six years ago) link
The far right has been totally driven out. Militia evacuated, traditionalists flee. Anti-racists cry in victory. Watch all of this video. pic.twitter.com/0WZ9Ji5g1v— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) August 12, 2017
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:28 (six years ago) link
Col. Martin Kumer, the superintendent of the Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail, confirmed Saturday evening that an Ohio man, James Alex Fields Jr., 20, of Maumee, had been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death.
i don't get this. that's it? he only gets charged for the people he actually hit? he was trying to kill as many people as possible! there isn't some sort of charge for attempting to murder people? there were way more than 4 people involved. send this fucker away for life
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:29 (six years ago) link
rushomancy otm
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:30 (six years ago) link
I accidentally flagged Doctor Casino's post, but totally didn't mean to.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:31 (six years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Saturday, August 12, 2017 7:29 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I assume that's just for starters
― softie (silby), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:35 (six years ago) link
I could watch a loop of those last few camo jackasses backing out of the crowd like they're doing some kind of military maneuver
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:36 (six years ago) link
I don't know if it's helpful to share this, but I very very rarely fantasize about violence. There was a video clip on twitter last night where a white woman marcher yelled at an antifa protestor, "you sound like a n-----"Ever since I saw that clip, I've been imagining punching her out. Which I likely couldn't successfully do; I've never punched anyone, and I have no upper body strength. I think my point is, there's a kind of rage that is social; you don't have it, it has you. It's part of why marches like this are so volatile--they unleash that thing in people who've been marginalized.
I guess I'm saying, while I think Doctor Casino is right and what he says is valuable, situations like this that dramatize social inequality breed violence, at the very least in people's hearts. It's part of why today's events made me so sad. I feel like worse is coming.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:40 (six years ago) link
yeah that's probably what they could cobble together in the few hours so they could lock him up. when they figure out names of the other victims they can charge him with more assaults/att. murders.
― assawoman bay (harbl), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:42 (six years ago) link
Many more IDs in this thread
If you recognize any of the Nazis marching in #Charlottesville, send me their names/profiles and I'll make them famous #GoodNightAltRight pic.twitter.com/2tA9xliFVU— Yes, You're Racist (@YesYoureRacist) August 12, 2017
― Moodles, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:42 (six years ago) link
Agreed, horseshoe. We're supposed to be having an anti-racist solidarity protest in my town tomorrow, I want to participate but I'm nervous about what may come out of me if racists approach us. We're all on some frightening ground right now.
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:43 (six years ago) link
My grandfather used to tell me stories about going to fascist marches in chicago when he was a kid and throwing rocks and bricks at them. He was from a neighborhood where streetfights were pretty common and someone had slashed him with a knife at school, and this was way pre-King so I don't think he had the kinds of dilemmas about violence that we do at that time. I hadn't thought about this in years but after reading the news today I definitely started fantasizing about doing the same.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:43 (six years ago) link
I feel like worse is coming.
this is why considering violence isn't totally out of bounds imo
― call all destroyer, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:44 (six years ago) link
The fact that they had an armed militia with them makes me think the next time they'll feel empowered to open fire on counter-protesters.
― Moodles, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:46 (six years ago) link
I don't know about *next time*, but that's definitely the idea they want to plant in your head.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:48 (six years ago) link
Here's a photo of @Millennial_Matt with Trump and carrying a burning torch in Charlottesville. This isn't complicated. pic.twitter.com/NXh4Rvyf0v— Raf Sanchez (@rafsanchez) August 12, 2017
― Moodles, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:49 (six years ago) link
I mean, I do find them terrifying! Terrorism works.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:50 (six years ago) link
I hope these guys are found by the police, arrested or watched when necessary and hope people will help the police do it but I'm wary about increased usage of doxxing as a tactic. All sorts of shitheads would do it more than they already do and its easy to smear someone with all kinds of things. Some of these alt-right guys are desperate to find ways of smearing their opponents as sex offenders. I'm glad these Nazis are being identified but I hope people are careful with what information they release, I don't want people going after their families and stuff like that.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:00 (six years ago) link
doxxing is horseshit but we have an administration which has clearly signalled its unwillingness to enforce the law against white nationalists. given that there's an obvious need to confront white nationalism, it's not much of a surprise that vigilantes are taking a more active role.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:18 (six years ago) link
I don't know if it's helpful to share this, but I very very rarely fantasize about violence. There was a video clip on twitter last night where a white woman marcher yelled at an antifa protestor, "you sound like a n-----"Ever since I saw that clip, I've been imagining punching her out. Which I likely couldn't successfully do; I've never punched anyone, and I have no upper body strength.
u got to work the body
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/08/10/berkeley-teacher-filmed-punching-neo-nazi-arraigned-sacramento/
― j., Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:27 (six years ago) link
it distresses me to see people here openly considering violence. not because i don't sympathize - i definitely do. i too entertain disturbingly elaborate and detailed fantasies about exactly how i would beat the shit out of a neo-nazi. only fantasies, of course, because irl i think i would get about one punch in before getting pummeled myself. but the main reason it distresses me is that if you all are considering it, and if i'm thinking more and more about it, than others must be as well, including other people who might not be as lucky as i take many ilxors to be in living beyond the reach of daily physical and psychic intimidation from the alt-right and violent racists in general. or more to the point, people who aren't typically the target of such intimidation. i think about what i might have done today if i were in a different situation, how i might have snapped, and i'm not even a target, generally. it frightens me to think of how it must affect those who are.
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:27 (six years ago) link
i also think that strategically, taking the "fight" to a physical level only works to the alt-right's advantage. if nothing else, they have all the guns, whereas the left not only don't have guns, generally, but is full of people like me who think it's an awful idea to even own a gun much less contemplate using one.
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:30 (six years ago) link
i prefer to try to outsmart them in other ways, in no small part because i think they're really, really really fucking dumb
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:31 (six years ago) link
After reading a shit-ton about the civil rights movement over the past year, it seems like one of the most constructive courses of action would be for people who know their shit to start organizing anti-violence workshops en masse. Like the kind where you learn firsthand how to take a beating and how to shield people who are taking a beating and how to not react the way our lizard brains want us to react. Not that it does much in a situation where psychos are plowing into people with cars, but there are lots of other situations where it's a preferable option to engaging on the level of the hate mongers (who definitely need to die except from incredibly painful and prolonged bowel cancer).
― Say, I Heard You Had a Quarrel With Your Best Girl (Old Lunch), Sunday, 13 August 2017 03:36 (six years ago) link
dude is 20. owns one of these
https://www.dodge.com/challenger.html
maybe it was used? life sure is hard for these alt-righters :(
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:23 (six years ago) link
trying to reconcile this tweet
Fact check: true. https://t.co/94ti7BwFLJ— Richard ☝🏻Spencer (@RichardBSpencer) August 12, 2017
with this one, about 12 hours later
We came in peace. It was the government and antifa that used force against peaceful, lawful demonstrators. https://t.co/6oDkncSFna— Richard ☝🏻Spencer (@RichardBSpencer) August 12, 2017
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:47 (six years ago) link
oh, the embedded tweet in that first one didn't show up. but it was someone saying "They surrounded us at the statue
They wouldn't let us out" after friday night's disturbing tiki torch shit at the jefferson statue.
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 04:48 (six years ago) link
I think I found the one tweet that sums it all up about this whole crew
Liberals, this is from a SOCIAL EXPERIMENT by @JoeySalads showing Trump supporters VEHEMENTLY rejecting Nazism & Bigotry. #Charlottesville pic.twitter.com/VGucwxWqqO— Democrats for Trump (@YoungDems4Trump) August 13, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 August 2017 05:07 (six years ago) link
maybe he should have gone to the Nazi-friendly Trump rally and not the relatively normal people one where they’re just regular racists
it’s as if there are different groups politicians cater to, with language that implies association in speech and action. hmm.
― mh, Sunday, 13 August 2017 06:06 (six years ago) link
With all the IDs coming out it's interesting how many of these dudes are "outside agitators" from other parts of the country and how few seem to be from VA let alone the area.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 12:43 (six years ago) link
Vaguely appalled that people dare to suggest Joey fucking Salads as in some way a neutral source.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:11 (six years ago) link
Some of them are turning on the Paul Jpseph Watson guy - "controlled opposition" accusations. For something called Unite the Right it may have done the opposite. The comfy niches some of them have may be coming difficult to maintain (they'd have been pushing false flag narratives a lot harder not so long ago)
― anvil, Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:31 (six years ago) link
Okay THIS takes the cake.
Peter Cvjetanovic says, "I’m not the angry racist they see in that photo"https://t.co/TpZDsRQPX4 pic.twitter.com/coW26QHXOv— emptywheel (@emptywheel) August 13, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
'i'm usually a pretty chill racist, they just caught me at an unfortunate moment during this otherwise totally normal torchlit celebration of white supremacy'
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:45 (six years ago) link
This weird distinction white nationalists make between white nationalism and racism ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:48 (six years ago) link
I
I am not a racist, I just believe the heritage of Robert E Lee and what he stood for should be preserved that's all. You're welcome to your own beliefs.
How dare you say I lost my temper.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:51 (six years ago) link
Mods, please rename thread.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
there were white women at that march too -- where are the pictures of them screaming?in some ways they are the most insidious racistsi've had to fight back the urge to call my friends' Trump-voting parents and give them a Sunday morning sermon about their racism
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:01 (six years ago) link
best day to do it
― j., Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:23 (six years ago) link
i offered my services
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:33 (six years ago) link
I've slept on it, sobered up and still considering signing up to be a black bloc antifa if it means I get to light Richard Spencer on fire.
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
yeah given the opportunity and after carefully weighing my chances in a given scenario i've got no prob fucking one of these dudes up
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:58 (six years ago) link
Just want to clarify, in response to Z S, I wasn't exactly endorsing violence against white supremacists. I was claiming that bigoted speech contains the seed of social violence within it, and violence seems inevitable to me at an event like that in Charlottesville.
Social violence meaning bigger than any one individual's rage or will to act.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:04 (six years ago) link
In an unequal society, bigoted speech always has that potential.
It's why we don't condemn the black kid who punches the white kid who calls him "n-----" for example. Social violence.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:06 (six years ago) link
I dont have any problem w punching nazis but dont do the crime if u cant do the time.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:08 (six years ago) link
By "we" I mean reasonable people, not US law enforcement.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:09 (six years ago) link
Also disappointed at leftists going after the ACLU for defending Nazis right to march cuz duh this is what the ACLU has always done and they are correct "hate speech" short of specific incitement to violence is 100% legal
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:12 (six years ago) link
White supremacists pleased with Trump's comments on Charlottesville:
Daily Stormer: "We are now at war" & "Trump comments were good...no condemnation at all" https://t.co/Avl6RSvOR1 pic.twitter.com/A0LpGZEHTE— Garance Franke-Ruta (@thegarance) August 13, 2017
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:14 (six years ago) link
“Non-violence doesn’t work for everything,” Cobb says. “You use self-defense with the Klan." Even while noting her respect for King, playwright and activist Lorraine Hansberry wrote too about embracing “every single means of struggle,” arguing that the Movement had to “harass, debate, petition, give money to court struggles, sit-in, lie-down, strike, boycott, sing hymns, pray on steps, and shoot from their windows when the racists come cruising through their communities.” It’s a good description of a diversity of tactics, and of the Movement in practice."
https://psmag.com/news/tactical-lessons-from-the-civil-rights-movement
― scott seward, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:16 (six years ago) link
Non-violence only works when you're appealing to a populace/power base that is capable of shame (ie the British, Rockefeller Republicans etc)
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:17 (six years ago) link
Even under the terms of the first amendment/free speech, I still don't get why hate groups are allowed to march/assemble. I mean, they're innately violent, aren't they? Aren't they the human equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre? I just don't see how even an argument can be made that they are peaceful, or even *can* be peaceful, especially since they attract counter-protestors, which inevitably leads to violence. Public safety concerns alone should put the kibosh on them.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:22 (six years ago) link
so what is the political application of violence? i see two possible ends to violence: one, to compel people to sit down at the table and talk with you on mutually agreeable terms, or two, to compel acquiescence to your beliefs. any form of political violence that doesn't further those ends is stupid and counterproductive.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
Well, not for political groups who consider violence an end unto itself, like white supremacists do. For those who want fewer types of other people, violence is totally productive.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
Aren't they the human equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre?
FYI, this phrase comes from a Supreme Court case that criminalized putting anti-draft leaflets in people's mailboxes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
so what is the political application of violence
Lol u left out self-defense.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 15:53 (six years ago) link
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/346360-lexington-mayor-announces-removal-of-confederate-statues-in
^ What u all make of this - seems like a fitting punishment
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
Well like - obviously not punishment enough for the ones who kill people by driving into them, but I mean as a civic response
i don't think when you hit back somebody who hits you that's primarily a political act.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
That's an odd take. Black Panthers would disagree.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
well there are a lot of things i don't necessarily agree with the black panthers about.
but ok, i'll modify my initial statement to refer specifically to the _strategic_ political application of violence. even if one views all violence as primarily political in nature, we can classify some forms of political violence as tactical and some forms of political violence as strategic, no?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:27 (six years ago) link
Some violence is primarily situational anger, infused with all kind of political motivations, real or bullshitted.
― popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:30 (six years ago) link
Ok sureXp
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:34 (six years ago) link
Already seeing shit on FB about how the driver was "really a lefty" and how "Liberals are the really violent ones".
Come Nuclear Bomb, Come.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:41 (six years ago) link
the narrative that we ran over one of our own originated w/ in the Nazi group organizing the protest, but even they recently backed away from it when the person was IDed
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
something i've never understood is how these assholes rationalize that the daughter of their god emperor is jewish
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
These militia people are freaks. I don't think the left needs to use violence against them to defeat them. Their ideology holds little mass appeal and their aesthetic even less. I know people mock the "go high" rhetoric but in their case that's the thing to do.
They are a minority of Trump supporters who are a minority of the country. History is not on their side.
If they attack you or whatever fight back but no one should seek out a fight with degenerates.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:57 (six years ago) link
Antifa stunts will just draw more of them out and strengthen them. They thrive on hatred.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
a minority of the country whose population still is in the millions, sure
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link
they don't thrive on hatred, they thrive on any incident they can spin into proving the other side is just as bad, if not worse. they also thrive on "not being resisted"
Protest them nonviolently in overwhelming numbers. Also focus not on them but on defeating Republicans and pushing Demorats left.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link
i don't remember who it was back in January (oh, more innocent times) that said alt-right/nazi groups might fear organizing more if they felt like they might get clocked in the face, and while I am generally a pacifist there is some truth to that.
neo-nazi groups are not going to starve for members regardless of what antifa do or don't do.
xpost sure, then alt-righters when frustrated that nobody is taking their bait then run down one of the protesters with a car and say an antifa did it
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
Oh, bullshit. We've had Klan rallies and Neo-Nazi rallies for a century - they don't need counter-protesters to be themselves.
― louie mensch (milo z), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
I disagree. I think they want to brawl in the streets because they are barbarians. The left wants something else -- a better world.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
They want to kill black people.
― horseshoe, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:08 (six years ago) link
realize I'm incapable of thinking of this rationally atm but it's just depressing that after 8 years of moderately progressive gains, we're having to deal w/ the predictable consequences when those who feel "slighted" by those gains inexplicably get the biggest Breitbart puppet in modern history in the White House as their mascot.
xpost horseshoe otm
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:08 (six years ago) link
recent White supremacist/separatist groups have become non-violent, not because they necessarily have evolved, but because they know recruiting becomes easier as it's easier to get on-the-fence racists who have resisted due to the violence/terrorist actions of the movement's past.
that doesn't mean if law enforcement was to regress 50-60 years and turn a blind eye to some of their activities that they wouldn't revert to past barbarities. their move away from violence has little to do w/ their innate desires
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:53 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
contradictions/cognitive dissonance isn't a thing for Trumpers. they start with conclusions and work backwards to make everything else fit, and the puzzle pieces that don't fit just get left out.
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:12 (six years ago) link
The avowed white nationalists probably see Trump more as a useful tool to advance their agenda than an actual guru or whatever too.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:15 (six years ago) link
I think Bannon said that once. Trump was a "blunt instrument"
yeah he's not a 'leader', but a guy that symbolizes "hey, it's ok for us to be ourselves again now"
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:16 (six years ago) link
― Treeship
oh god, here i am being tone police again, but look, if we're going to use dehumanizing rhetoric can we at least come up with our own dehumanizing rhetoric and not borrow it from the nazis?
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
What would you call them?
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
I wasn't using that term in a literal sense obviously. There is nothing "wrong" with them except their hearts and minds are filled with poison.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
And they are beneath contempt and tender minded music nerds shouldn't be seeking out fights with them.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
It just seems weird to me that the use of violence is the question of the hour. I'll sign out now.
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:25 (six years ago) link
The use of violence is the question of the next four to eight years. And your answer is wrong.
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:27 (six years ago) link
i don't remember who it was back in January (oh, more innocent times) that said alt-right/nazi groups might fear organizing more if they felt like they might get clocked in the face, and while I am generally a pacifist there is some truth to that.neo-nazi groups are not going to starve for members regardless of what antifa do or don't do.
seems obvious to me that any violence (other than pure self-defense) from "the Left" weakens "our" position. it's frustrating to give those who are all too eager to play the "many sides" card (which is major BS of course) any fodder.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:28 (six years ago) link
obv if white supremacists escalate and become more and more organized and violent, something needs to be done. by the State. if the State is unwilling or fails to quash, then...
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:30 (six years ago) link
^^^^
― Treeship, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:32 (six years ago) link
Fired
UPDATE: Cole White, the first person I exposed, no longer has a job 💁♂️ #GoodNightColeWhite #ExposeTheAltRight #Charlottesville pic.twitter.com/sqxSXboKw6— Yes, You're Racist (@YesYoureRacist) August 13, 2017
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:38 (six years ago) link
State failed to stop vehicular murder yesterday fyi
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:39 (six years ago) link
It can't possibly be expected to stop everything. That doesn't mean a good response is to immediately resort to vigilante justice.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:48 (six years ago) link
Just pointing it out for the record. White supremacist violence is on the rise and the federal govt is actively ignoring it.
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 17:58 (six years ago) link
Then I will point out that vehicular murderer will be arraigned by the State Monday.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link
As he should be
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:07 (six years ago) link
not vigilante justice
― the late great, Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link
just natural social repercussions of being a shit head
they'll live
― the late great, Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:09 (six years ago) link
seeing speculation from my local Cville friends (based on the footage) that the helicopter pilot was shot
― sleeve, Sunday, 13 August 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
I've been having an occasional look at r/thedonald (downvoteable link here) and they are really not handling the current situation well. Not that they have a coherent angle at any point (the last week has been anti-google memes and self-congratulatory back-patting about the "reclaiming" of the Trump chicken cartoon, something which absolutely nobody outside their bubble cares about) but they can't even sing from the same songsheet today. There are defenses of Trump's tweets, allegations that the whole thing was a false-flag maneuver, calling MSM hypocritical for whatever whataboutery they can think of, and a few scattered attempts to distance themselves from the far-right - obviously the last one way to go here, but it's being hampered somewhat by the fact that many of them are actually the far-right. Sure they will have calmed down and gone back to the usual state of things later in the week, but it's interesting to get a glimpse of what they'll look like when their inevitable downfall happens.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 13 August 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
the behavior of the white fascists uses victimhood as a frame, but the underlying attitude is that they're speaking for a quiet majority. that's why they persist even when the majority of these events have more counter-protestors than white nationalists. to their minds, they think they see overwhelming support everywhere in the complacency of the majority, and counter-protests are the handful of people they can brush off. the Trump fan reddits of the world are that complacent majority, and it sounds like they're incredibly bad at coming to terms
― mh, Sunday, 13 August 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
mfktz, obnoxious trolls on other sites i read, i'm more than half-convinced are paid in rubles to shit-post and hijack discussions, have been eerily quiet this weekend
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
underlying attitude is that they're speaking for a quiet majority.
well tbf 58% of white voters and 81% of evangelicals are ceratinly sympathetic
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:05 (six years ago) link
just got this targeted ad on facebook
http://i.imgur.com/dOmN8zS.png
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
Early last year Farrakhan said something like “Trump is peeling back the onion of white civility”
this kind of will towards violence from typically pacifist leftists would have been easily placated with someone like the homie Barack in office making all the right noises and singing the right songs
instead you get dog whistle “many sides” bullshit from the most powerful man in the country and suddenly belief in an inexorable social progress doesn’t quite feel equal to an emboldened far right
I mean it wouldn’t occur to me that white nationalism is any less abhorrent and deleterious if somebody hadn’t driven a challenger through a crowd. by that same token I think the vast majority of people are fully aware of which side they fall on before they read the news.
the definitive lightning rod in American political and social life has always been race. Ain’t nobody out here waiting to hear who was more violent before forming an opinion
― tsrobodo, Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:29 (six years ago) link
xp Does it happen to have a flag painted on the roof?
― Zings Can Only Get Better (snoball), Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
so . . . guess where trump winery is!
http://www.trumpwinery.com/contact/
surely this is a coincidence, right? right?
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
"seems obvious to me that any violence (other than pure self-defense) from "the Left" weakens "our" position."
how can you weaken your position against racist nazis? being able to legally punch a nazi should be in the constitution.
― scott seward, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
going high has gone so well in the battle against fascism/white supremacy
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:25 (six years ago) link
like I remember that one KKK gathering where all of the counterprotesters shouted "YOU SAY HORRIBLE THINGS, BUT WE DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO SAY THEM!" and whole Nazis realized hateful incitement was bad and abandoned their hoods and held hands with the protesters.
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:27 (six years ago) link
Not using violence, while absorbing violence, isn't about converting the people who are doing you violence, but about turning bystanders in your favor and against those who are doing you violence. This should not be hard to grasp. The difficulty comes when the vast majority of the bystanders have only a heavily-mediated experience those events.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:39 (six years ago) link
yes but as your last sentence correctly states, the "bystanders" tend to hold the protesters to a higher standard than the people they're protesting
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:47 (six years ago) link
the shooting against Scalise turned into a narrative of "see, it's leftist encouragement of violence that led to this" even as those on the left immediately condemned the shooting, whereas yesterday's act of violence gets called an "accident" for hours on a major tv network even after others had correctly identified what it *really* was.
― Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 August 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vsXyOTelJo
― scott seward, Sunday, 13 August 2017 23:19 (six years ago) link
The creator of Godwin's Law says it all
By all means, compare these shitheads to Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.— Mike Godwin (@sfmnemonic) August 14, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 August 2017 00:48 (six years ago) link
I wound up on the news, and I look ridiculous
http://wnep.com/2017/08/13/peace-rally-in-lewisburg-in-response-to-violence-in-virginia/
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 14 August 2017 00:58 (six years ago) link
you totally didn't look ridiculous and you were totally OTM.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 August 2017 01:23 (six years ago) link
Defriended an old Jewish high school friend for his tu quoque "BLM is just as bad" shit.
What year is this fuuuck
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 01:29 (six years ago) link
yeah ray your grimace of disgust = otm
― j., Monday, 14 August 2017 01:38 (six years ago) link
thanks guys. i'm just weird about seeing myself on camera or hearing my recorded voice.
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Monday, 14 August 2017 01:42 (six years ago) link
Awesome raymond, good,on ya
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:03 (six years ago) link
Stupid phone argh
FWIW I'm antidefriending in all but the most extreme cases. The echo chamber needs to be disrupted.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 02:34 (six years ago) link
The thing I'm having the hardest time with right now is the unbridled rage that I feel. I've never so badly wanted to put my own body out there on the front line, but I'm a 37-year-old dad and I owe it to my family not to risk street brawls. I'd probably be a lot less effective in one than my rage trip is telling me I would be too.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 02:37 (six years ago) link
This song in my head all dayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tlEK2SvXqw
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 02:40 (six years ago) link
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:34 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I read outside the echo chamber all the time. I don't need to read someone who I haven't seen but once in the last 18 years say something that, if he was to say it to me in public, would lead me to walk away from this person....out of some misguided sense of loyalty. it's fucking FACEBOOK.
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:44 (six years ago) link
like we stop talking to friends for things much more benign than neo-nazi apologia
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:46 (six years ago) link
No I more mean that people like him need to have people disrupt their echo chambers. But W/E, you have every right to unfriend whoever you want. I already live in such an echo chamber that the only political arguments in my feed are left vs liberal. And it's not like I try to curate my friends that way, I've just always lived in unconservative places.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 02:47 (six years ago) link
oh I feel you, I misread what you meant - and yeah, I agree with you on that. this was someone who I tried and failed w/ many times in recent years.
re: the last sentence, yeah there are maybe two Trump voters on my wall, and it's not like I've deliberately sussed out people's beliefs before I ever talk to them, it's just that conservatives and me never tend to have convos that end well IRL so we don't become friends
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:50 (six years ago) link
Pence can say what he wants about his aspersions in 2020, but this isn't the first time he hasn't felt Trumpolini's message was too diluted and broke with him to deliver a more pointed message.
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:51 (six years ago) link
my wife relieves stress by getting people banned from twitter. she looks for hate speech and reports it. it works for her.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:52 (six years ago) link
alt-right people in particular.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:53 (six years ago) link
getting violent has gone so well in the battle to win over people to liberal causes and beliefs
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 August 2017 02:56 (six years ago) link
well this as there's no detente then *flies to Mars*
― Neanderthal, Monday, 14 August 2017 02:57 (six years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Sunday, August 13, 2017 9:56 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
worked pretty well in WWII
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:01 (six years ago) link
facism/white supremacy had been an extreme fringe belief system leading up to WWII and even more so after. even most of white society finds it abhorrent. going around "punching nazis" or whatver does what exactly to destroy it? this rally was billed as the largest gathering of these shitheads in, what, 20 yrs? Scum from 1000 miles away came. Yet there was still only, what, 1000 of them there? Demand that authorities break up these groups. persecute them, out them, arrest them if at all possible. If that doesn't work, then sure squash them like bugs. I am for non-violence if at all possible, and obv any deaths/injuries are tragic but I am not willing to discard my beliefs so easily. Plus yeah seems somewhat counterproductive.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:06 (six years ago) link
you think the violence against Nazis is what got people to oppose them?? these ARE nazis but this is not WWII. yes, we don't want things to progress further and lament that we didn't nip it in the bud while we had a chance. but getting pre-emptively violent with them at this point is neither smart tactics or morally laudable imo.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:10 (six years ago) link
Violence against Nazis is what ended Nazism and made most of Europe a liberal society for the last 70 years.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:11 (six years ago) link
I mean I'm willing to debate strategy/tactics. As I said upthread, I don't think violence should be the automatic, knee-jerk response, and I don't think it poorly-thought-out, random lashing out type of violence is necessarily effective. But let's face it, the people who descended on Charlottesville were there to start a riot. Once they start it, what do you do? Tell people not to fight back?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:14 (six years ago) link
No I more mean that people like him need to have people disrupt their echo chambers.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive)
this tends not to work out in practice. nobody is going to reconsider their beliefs because one of their 153 friends is outspokenly anti-racist.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:15 (six years ago) link
none of us are fucking eisenhower here, we're rosa luxemburg.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:16 (six years ago) link
I don't think it changes people's beliefs but I do actually think it weakens people's confidence and makes them more circumspect.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:16 (six years ago) link
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:16 PM (forty-seven seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm just saying that battles are never won by morality. They are won by power. There are lots of forms of power, and many of them are non-violent, but some of them are violent. And sometimes the violent kind is effective, and sometimes it's the only kind that's effective.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:18 (six years ago) link
self defense is not "violence", man alive otm
as the memes say, we literally fought a war over this. these people literally want to kill us, and are doing so. I totally agree that non-violent demonstrations are ideal and more effective, but I also side with the neighborhood folks who physically prevented these assholes from doing home invasions in a nearby housing project. sometimes you have to fight back.
― sleeve, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:19 (six years ago) link
why would my hypothetical fascist ass be more "circumspect" around an anti-fascist casual acquaintance when i can (1) unfriend them myself (2) set up my friends list so that i don't share with my anti-fascist "friend" (3) ignore everything they have to say while remaining "friends" with them or (4) all of the above? this shit isn't "disruption" except in the meaningless silicon valley buzzword sense, and internet "confrontation" is a fucking joke.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:20 (six years ago) link
Once they start it, what do you do? Tell people not to fight back?
Thought I've been pretty clear in saying I'm against pre-emptive violence against neo-Nazis, in 2017. I am pro violence against WW2 nazis (ie the ones who invaded countries, rounded up Jews etc) and am pro self-defense against neo-Nazis. This isn't WW2. The 70 yrs since has dealt with nazism by shunning and legal justice. This is the strategy I support now.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:21 (six years ago) link
xp http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/conversion-via-twitter-westboro-baptist-church-megan-phelps-roper
― sleeve, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:21 (six years ago) link
i'm not making the moral argument for non-violence nor am i going to waste my time wagging my finger at someone who punches back when they get hit. i simply have yet to see any persuasive evidence that vigilante anti-fascist violence is a strategically effective use of "power".
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:25 (six years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/EqgvG8n.gif
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:26 (six years ago) link
^^ a strategically effective use of power
― sleeve, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:27 (six years ago) link
emotionally effective, sure
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:28 (six years ago) link
i bet james hodgkinson wanted to be that guy pretty bad.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:30 (six years ago) link
btw, unrelated FYIhttp://5newsonline.com/2017/08/12/university-of-arkansas-responds-to-rally-photo/ (the prof ID'd by the internet is not the dude in the photo)
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:34 (six years ago) link
thanks for that link, was hearing some rumors that doxxing had gone askew
― sleeve, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:35 (six years ago) link
We informed The Daily Stormer that they have 24 hours to move the domain to another provider, as they have violated our terms of service.— GoDaddy (@GoDaddy) August 14, 2017
wow, the daily stormer has finally pushed things too far!
i mean, glad they're doing this but maybe they should have thought about doing it years and years ago
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:44 (six years ago) link
xpost This all is why a lack of moral authority at the highest levels of government matters. Even if it is mostly symbolic it matters to have the president calling this shit out. Currently there is a vacuum, and without any sort of moral compass or direction all roads lead to chaos and conflict. Non violence seems most appealing when law enforcement and government does its job. Right now it is not entirely clear that either can or will do what needs to be done.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:45 (six years ago) link
The fact that it took so long for a host of a white supremacist website to claim they violated the terms of service also seems endemic of this strange moral vacuum.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:46 (six years ago) link
This flyer is so obviously fake but does anyone have any info on the source?
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20729288_10214398284696672_3450299999332434098_n.jpg?oh=eaebf762b79ba3eb82e6a17abda074b4&oe=5A1F6579
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 03:49 (six years ago) link
there are uh a lot of dynamics here but for tonight i elect to lol at the tiki torch-bearing internet nazis and the fact that the actual guys with guns are choosing to steer clear of them
Three Percenters (a very large, loose-knit militia org) has finally decided to distance themselves from the white supremacy crowd. pic.twitter.com/Vab3EZr1Hn— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) August 14, 2017
― call all destroyer, Monday, 14 August 2017 03:59 (six years ago) link
I guess to put my sentiments another way, I'm always open to arguments for non-violence and I always think non-violence is preferable where effective. I just think that some of the anti-violence arguments amount to delicate sensibilities politics disguised as strategy.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 04:31 (six years ago) link
E.g.
2. The hard left seemed as hate-filled as alt-right. I saw club-wielding "antifa" beating white nationalists being led out of the park 2/2— Sheryl Gay Stolberg (@SherylNYT) August 13, 2017
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 04:32 (six years ago) link
Vanilla Isis! Is what someone on my Facebook called these dudes. I laughed.
― scott seward, Monday, 14 August 2017 05:29 (six years ago) link
Demand that authorities break up these groups.
Ahh yes ... the authorities, like Jeff sessions
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 14 August 2017 07:50 (six years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cable_Street
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 08:35 (six years ago) link
There is no particular strategy that works best for fighting fascism or bigotry and to argue about one way or another being the right way is ridiculous - sometimes you have to have the Soviet Union expend 20 million lives rolling it back, sometimes you need damn near 100 years of mostly non-violent action until demographics change.
― louie mensch (milo z), Monday, 14 August 2017 08:57 (six years ago) link
it's more useful to discuss tactics, not strategy, imo
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 August 2017 10:14 (six years ago) link
https://twitter.com/slpng_giants
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 14 August 2017 11:34 (six years ago) link
Kind of a scary interview with Terry McAuliffe I just heard that brought up several of the issues I've wondered about. The interviewer asked him why the state did not do more, and he, very frustrated, said he did the best he could, given the crowd was heavily armed and their intel was that they had violent intentions. So wait, asked the interviewer, you allowed an armed and dangerous crowd, many of whom came in from out of state to cause trouble, to march through the city? McAuliffe was clearly frustrated, first defending the police by rightly pointing out that despite all the guns not a single shot was fired, not a single window broken, but then also reminding that the ACLU (your friend and mine) helped sue the city, which wanted to relocate the gathering to a better controlled open park, and the city lost. Which goes back to what I've been asking: when does free speech butt up against public safety? Because an armed and dangerous mob of white nationalists, while protected by free speech in terms of expression (and the 2nd amendment for guns), is innately dangerous to others. Their viewpoint is dangerous, their history is violent, they are a menace. But how can they be singled out and told they can't assemble? Can you even have a peaceful assembly with guns? If so many weapons prevented the police from getting involved earlier, doesn't that again go back to the issue of whether they should have been there at all? It's a constitutional catch-22 (which the gun-happy right has made great progress with exploiting).
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 11:35 (six years ago) link
https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontgomery/heres-what-really-happened-in-charlottesville?utm_term=.xtQzxYqZ#.knkZrGOE
The right-wingers were more prepared for violence. Most white supremacist and Nazi groups arrived armed like a paramilitary force — carrying shields, protective gear, rods, and yes, lots of guns, utilizing Virginia’s loose firearm laws. They used militarized defensive maneuvers, shouting commands at one another to “move forward” or “retreat,” and would form a line of shields or a phalanx — it’s like they watched 300 a few times — to gain ground or shepherd someone through projectiles. It seemed that they had practiced for this. Virginia’s governor said that the right’s weaponry was better than that of the state police.
If this is the case, it's worth it to consider whether ACLU really did due diligence. Yeah, free speech rights, but if their clients are planning for violence, and they don't check for it, that's their fault, imo. This isn't a mistake, this wasn't unforeseeable, this is a violent ideology that is being planned and funded somewhere. It's bullshit when Greenwald is writing about Milo Literally nothing has helped Yiannopoulos become a national cult figure more than the well-intentioned (but failed) efforts to deny him a platform while actual journalists are digging into the large funding he is clearly receiving from somewhere, probably the Mercers.
― Frederik B, Monday, 14 August 2017 12:12 (six years ago) link
I've had a couple friends-of-friends post "BUT BLM IS JUST AS RACIST!!!" shit and I've posted photos of BLM marches full of white faces and asked them to counter with photos of black people marching with the alt-right/kkk/nazis. So far nobody has taken me up on this. Or replied. Or anything.
Also the president of the college republicans at my alma mater/former employer was carrying a torch in Charlottesville on Friday (which is absolutely unsurprising as he's a horrible right wing troll who obviously aspires to be a racist media hero) and there seems to be a huge mass of people arguing for his expulsion and denouncing the new president's wishy-washy statement. Not sure how this ends up but he's backtracking like a motherfucker right now.
― joygoat, Monday, 14 August 2017 12:15 (six years ago) link
hee hee
Blood and soil(ed himself) pic.twitter.com/TzGbVv1Chz— Jesse Fernandez (@JesseFernandez) August 13, 2017
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 August 2017 12:55 (six years ago) link
I've had a couple friends-of-friends post "BUT BLM IS JUST AS RACIST!!!"
Question: are the people saying this mixing up the Charlottesville KKK people with "mainstream" Trump supporters? Or do they really think that Black Lives Matter is equivalent to people who carry swastika flags and AR-15s?
Either way it's an idiotic false equivalence but still. To what extent are everyday Fox News watchers willing to go to bat for something like white nationalism?
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:02 (six years ago) link
my perusal of social media suggests they are very much committed to the idea that BLM is literally the black KKK
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:05 (six years ago) link
Yes, they think of BLM as a violent extremist group that rampages across American cities committing atrocities.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:10 (six years ago) link
which i'm quite certain, as the heat from this incident dissipates, mainstream conservative outlets will happily amplify
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:12 (six years ago) link
if this asshole (trump) doesn't get his fat ass off his golf course and go give a speech denunciating white supremacy down in charlottesville (where he has a goddamn winery, for fuck's sake) today or tomorrow at the latest, then fuck the entire GOP
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:13 (six years ago) link
every cop killed anywhere, every window broken in civil unrest is a directive straight BLM leaders
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:14 (six years ago) link
*straight from
Fuck them anyway
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:14 (six years ago) link
― yellow is the color of some raisins (Doctor Casino), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:16 (six years ago) link
A begrudging denunciation under pressure doesn't mean a lot.
― jmm, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:18 (six years ago) link
It seems... not in his interest to avoid denouncing them. Like, what is the national approval rating for the KKK? For vehicular homicide?
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:20 (six years ago) link
idk i do think his playing footsie with these clowns is what actually got him elected.
if he denounces i don't see how the Miller/ Bannon element doesn't convince him to make some dumbass equivalencies. and it's p clear those equivalencies (up to this point, anyway) play in Peoria
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:31 (six years ago) link
He won by appealing to some of the ideas the militia people represent -- which appeal to conservative voters -- but I think it's a bit different now that there are images of people carrying swastikas and shit. And because a person has died.
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
Or maybe I am just wrong and everyone's elderly aunt is down with white power prison gang stuff.
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
I just want him to become radioactive to the Republicans so we can start the process of that party's disintegration.
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 13:48 (six years ago) link
i don't think they're supportive of the explicit white power stuff. they just want someone to say that BLM/ Muslims/ liberals/ gay agenda/ atheists/ Democrats are EXACTLY THE SAME, just on the other side.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:50 (six years ago) link
like Nancy Pelosi and David Duke are that dual spiderman meme
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
the french lit theory moral equivalence / russian 'whataboutism' practiced by Koch and ALEC minions is resilient
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
it's a terrible impression, but they sure are committed to their kayfabe deplorable WWE pantomime
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 14 August 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
Meanwhile, fight the real enemy, etc
went to a vigil for Heather tonight and with more certainty than ever I can say: fuck liberals. line em up against a goddamn wall.— Barbarossa ☭ (@copcemetery) August 14, 2017
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:16 (six years ago) link
what a delightful tweet
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:22 (six years ago) link
Oh, read the whole thread. It's invigorating.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:25 (six years ago) link
not sure how I feel about that tweetthread tbh
― imago, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:26 (six years ago) link
This, on the other hand, is amazing: http://www.inforum.com/opinion/letters/4311880-letter-family-denounces-teffts-racist-rhetoric-and-actions
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:27 (six years ago) link
This person is saying that Heather's radical politics weren't acknowledged in the vigil, which was dominated by liberals and their talking points. I don't know how accurate that is but it seems like grounds to be upset.
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:27 (six years ago) link
I'm not sure that the thread isn't itself an example of radical posturing and preening. I'm more offended that the poster has contempt for people running for office.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:28 (six years ago) link
presumably the tweeter knew her personally, which mitigates much of the hyperbole
― imago, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:29 (six years ago) link
xxp And that's fine, but I find it absurd to then carry it into "if only liberals would get out of the way of our class-free, racism-free Marxist paradide" garbage.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:31 (six years ago) link
also the vigil does sound a bit nauseating
― imago, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:31 (six years ago) link
but who gets the tone exactly right at a time of stress?
― imago, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:32 (six years ago) link
truly a quandary
https://saboteur365.wordpress.com/2017/01/05/is-richards-spencers-estranged-wife-mixed-race/
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:35 (six years ago) link
xxp And that's fine, but I find it absurd to then carry it into "if only liberals would get out of the way of our class-free, racism-free Marxist paradide" garbage.― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, August 14, 2017 10:31 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, August 14, 2017 10:31 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You can think it's garbage but it seems like the woman who died was a socialist who did not see liberals as her comrades. If true, then it was bad for liberal orgs like Indivsible to swoop in and dominate her vigil.
― Treeship, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:36 (six years ago) link
True enough. Actually I'm sorry I posted that here, this isn't the place for it.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:39 (six years ago) link
(xxxp) Mixed race, what races? Maybe she literally is Caucasian.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:48 (six years ago) link
by the way, these bullshit Civil War statues and monuments, once the decision is made to take them down, why does it take so long? Why can't they just do it in the middle of the night some night and get it over with?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
You know what's cool? Agitprop on a grave, garbage everywhere.
I read a few articles, and her dad, mom, an associate and a friend all failed to mention the BK paralegal's dedication to socialism. Fuckin lie-beral press- I know her fam had talking points for this. Wasted opportunities.
― popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Monday, 14 August 2017 14:53 (six years ago) link
xp Josh, the experience in New Orleans was legal suits which held up removal for 2 years, new state laws attempting to override local jurisdiction, and white supremacist protests for weeks against the removals, and they still had to remove them in the dead of night, under heavy police guard, with masks on the (de)construction workers.
https://mgtvwric.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/jeff-davis.jpg
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Monday, 14 August 2017 15:13 (six years ago) link
There are so many threads going on right now that I can't keep up. Have we touched on Jerry Drake Varnell, the 3%er who was arrested on Saturday for a bomb plot?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/oklahoma-man-charged-in-anti-government-bomb-plot/2017/08/14/97816686-80f9-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.9c1480f392c4
― how's life, Monday, 14 August 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
If I were the governor of a state I would not be saying "Gee gosh you know those guys were better armed than our police, whaddya gonna do?" on national TV, even if it were true. I found his "please go home" pretty tepid too.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
there are solutions to a militarized populace that local police cannot control, it's called the National Guard
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
Seriously.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
This is an interesting tidbit:
A man accused of ramming his car into a crowd of counter-protesters at a white nationalist rally in Virginia was denied bond Monday after the public defender's office said it couldn't represent him and the judge was forced to find a local attorney to fill in . . .[Judge Robert] Downer said the public defenders' office informed him it could not represent Fields because a relative of someone in the office was injured in Saturday's protest. He appointed local attorney Charles Weber to represent him. Weber couldn't immediately be reached by The Associated Press.
[Judge Robert] Downer said the public defenders' office informed him it could not represent Fields because a relative of someone in the office was injured in Saturday's protest. He appointed local attorney Charles Weber to represent him. Weber couldn't immediately be reached by The Associated Press.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
yeah I saw that and wondered what the deal was
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/american-nazi-tourist-beaten-germany_us_59904f9ee4b09071f69a47a8
An American tourist suffered minor injuries in the German city of Dresden on Saturday morning after he was punched and beaten for repeatedly giving Nazi salutes. German police are investigating the man for violating the country’s post-1945 laws that ban the use of Nazi symbols.Authorities are also looking for the assailant, who apparently was passing by a cafe in the eastern Neustadt district of Dresden when he witnessed the American man’s gestures and attacked him. The incident took place at 8:15 a.m. local time, police said.
Authorities are also looking for the assailant, who apparently was passing by a cafe in the eastern Neustadt district of Dresden when he witnessed the American man’s gestures and attacked him. The incident took place at 8:15 a.m. local time, police said.
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, 14 August 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
I doff my cap to the good citizens of Dresden.
― Say, I Heard You Had a Quarrel With Your Best Girl (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 August 2017 18:45 (six years ago) link
JUST IN: Hours after moving domain to Google from GoDaddy, Google says it is canceling Daily Stormer's registration https://t.co/xhELT2YQJS— CNBC (@CNBC) August 14, 2017
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:31 (six years ago) link
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 14 August 2017 19:33 (six years ago) link
man those daily stormer guys just can't catch a break huh
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 August 2017 19:34 (six years ago) link
every day, it's another storm
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 14 August 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
Why did it take so fucking long?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:36 (six years ago) link
― how's life, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:36 (six years ago) link
did anonymous actually take over their website last night?
apparently it was a false flag by the daily stormer so that they could blame their takedown on "leftists" instead of acknowledging what actually happened
Please Retweet The Following:DAILY STORMER HACK IS A FALSE FLAG OP BY OWNER ANDREW ANGLIN TO IMPLICATE ANONYMOUS IN HIS WEBSITE'S SHUTDOWN— TheAnonJournal (@TheAnonJournal) August 14, 2017
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
i buy that, sorta hate how "false flag" has become so loaded & toxic by Infowars
― flappy bird, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
it's the original fake news
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
yeah i too wish we could back to the good old days when 'false flag' was an acceptable, rational response to a tragedy
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 August 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
always safe to assume Anonymous' inability to actually successfully accomplish anything
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:51 (six years ago) link
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Monday, August 14, 2017 3:50 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
not what I mean, same could be said for "conspiracy theory" - there are proven conspiracy theories (agent provocateurs at WTO protests in 2000). this is also isn't in response to tragedy, quite the opposite - a white supremacist site getting pulled. Anyone responding to a terrorist attack or death in the immediate aftermath as a false flag is a fucking monster.
― flappy bird, Monday, 14 August 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, August 14, 2017 2:11 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Οὖτις, Monday, August 14, 2017 2:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
if you'll forgive a link to Reason, this is an easily disprovable lie: http://reason.com/blog/2017/08/14/no-virginia-state-police-werent-outgunne
― rob, Monday, 14 August 2017 20:30 (six years ago) link
lol these clowns always end up saying the exact same tripe every time
"If you look on facebook and anyone commenting who have known me in person know that I am a good person, but they have also known my beliefs I am very open about them. Even people from park circle and the Mill knew that," he said in a Facebook message to a Post and Courier reporter.
http://www.postandcourier.com/news/ridgeville-man-out-of-a-job-following-photo-next-to/article_d780c622-811d-11e7-888e-7723428033b4.html
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 14 August 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
i found this guy's FB and he was posting Chris Hedges links in 2014?
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 14 August 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
I suspected McAuliffe was engaging in some ass-covering given how heavily militarized police departments are these days (lolz did the Nazis bring their own anti-aircraft guns and tanks too?) but thx I can't say I'm surprised
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 20:54 (six years ago) link
Choices, choices.
pic.twitter.com/LyGcqTl0qc— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) August 14, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 August 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
'The notion that police are outgunned by heavily armed private citizens is a common trope among gun-control advocates, but it bears little resemblance to reality.' lol just as common if not more coming from police armification jerkhards. xp
― popcorn michael awaits trumptweet (Hunt3r), Monday, 14 August 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
This Richard Spencer press conference was supposed to take place at the Willard Hotel, but an organizer told me the Willard canceled on them— Olivia Nuzzi (@Olivianuzzi) August 14, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 August 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
WFUV just played The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. o_O
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Monday, 14 August 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
http://www.statesman.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/white-nationalist-rally-canceled-texas-lawmaker-says/MSek1IBzK2O54c2G0Yg0xM/
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 14 August 2017 23:15 (six years ago) link
Coming soon:
Some of the same mob from #Charlotteville are apparently coming to San Francisco and Berkeley in two weeks - Aug 26/27 https://t.co/1tfvASwjaD— Cool Grey 🌉☕️ (@coolgrey) August 12, 2017
― Eazy, Monday, 14 August 2017 23:16 (six years ago) link
I was thinking of working a Swing Left phone bank on the 26th, now I'm genuinely torn.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 August 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Monday, August 14, 2017 1:39 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
As I said on FB earlier: "I like to imagine the local police chief (or whatever) taking the officers responsible for investigating the assault - finding the attacker - aside and saying, basically, "don't wear yourselves out.""
― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 00:48 (six years ago) link
UnderArmour CEO also has left council
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 01:16 (six years ago) link
Poor boy.
New: Trump privately raged against media coverage of first Virginia statement, was reluctant to amend https://t.co/YXZK60Iaim— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) August 14, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 01:18 (six years ago) link
I mean...denunciation of KKK violence is one of the easiest slam dunks as a politician, Donnie - maybe if you weren't afraid of stepping on your newfound Third Reich friends you wouldn't have fucked it up *shrug*
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 01:23 (six years ago) link
I imagine he realises that the cushion his approval rating is sitting on is...ambiguous about white supremacists.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 02:31 (six years ago) link
donnie three-Ks
― The Man Who Saw The Midwife (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 03:40 (six years ago) link
wicked dumb...
https://scontent.fbos1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20800357_1816162318401571_6908976776914557013_n.jpg?oh=331459e29f43c34fdf101f187acb5686&oe=59EF8C2E
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:42 (six years ago) link
donald trump: kkk. racist, sexist, anti-gay.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:43 (six years ago) link
oh the goat blood drinker will be there, gee sign me up
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:45 (six years ago) link
oh wait i guess its not happening now or something. things move fast...
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:46 (six years ago) link
well, according to this guy it isn't happening. infowars joe biggs.
https://yt3.ggpht.com/-TjXv_kg-tuQ/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/va1JoAPgXMA/s900-c-k-no-mo-rj-c0xffffff/photo.jpg
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:48 (six years ago) link
he covers the bases...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbgHQTc1q6w
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:54 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G8YL2A80oc
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:57 (six years ago) link
okay, it is happening in boston, they just don't have a permit.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 05:59 (six years ago) link
this is a comprehensive report of public confederate symbols (monuments, schools, parks, etc) in the united states, and also includes a handy index at the end with a state-by-state breakdown:
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/whoseheritage_splc.pdf
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 06:44 (six years ago) link
how did it become possible to take clowns styling themselves as "BasedStickMan" and "Augustus Invictus" half-way seriously?
― André Ryu (Neil S), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 10:21 (six years ago) link
When rich Twitter troll "BasedApprenticeMan" took over the Republican party and then became President.
― Chris L, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 10:45 (six years ago) link
haha
― Eazy, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 12:38 (six years ago) link
The whole "Based Stickman" thing reminds me of the conversations we had years ago about whether white kids were flipping out over Lil B genuinely or ironically.
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 13:59 (six years ago) link
Yeah...
― maura, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 14:46 (six years ago) link
I've heard of at least one Boston show that's been moved from downtown because of "other events" in the area on Saturday. Blech.
― maura, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 14:47 (six years ago) link
But, as my Lyft driver pointed out yesterday, at least MA is not an open-carry state. The silver linings of 2017, man...
― maura, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 14:48 (six years ago) link
damn, dude
http://www.inforum.com/opinion/letters/4311880-letter-family-denounces-teffts-racist-rhetoric-and-actions
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
chase these fuckers off the internet
Thank you @GoDaddy. Let's all please contact Cloudfare https://t.co/9yujQhY8a4 https://t.co/rGoIr9lSvm— Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) August 14, 2017
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
We Did It! The Internet Just Got Robert E. Lee Fired From Hell’s Only Baskin-Robbins
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:05 (six years ago) link
I can't tell if Cloudflare has already taken them down or not - I tried to fill out the complaint form but I guess I didn't have a valid url (I'll be fucked if I'm actually going to that site)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:08 (six years ago) link
That letter from the dad has me weeping at work
― softie (silby), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
yeah I mean that last line
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:17 (six years ago) link
hi-res version for public use from designer:http://imgur.com/a/lLP9x
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
This is the final boss of confederate monuments. We're not stopping unless we replace these scumbags with Outkast. pic.twitter.com/HdqepIDTwe— Metro Atlanta DSA 🌹 (@MetroATLDSA) August 15, 2017
― The Man Who Saw The Midwife (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:02 (six years ago) link
where do republicans end and nazis begin?
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:10 (six years ago) link
the buffet line at a Presbyterian church
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:13 (six years ago) link
ok lol
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
I don't think most Republians are neo-nazis. Trump seems like a fellow traveller though!
― Treeship, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
Watching the Vice footage for the first time now. These people are so young wtf
― Treeship, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
The nazis that is
― Treeship, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:20 (six years ago) link
Just got accused of virtue signaling by someone on Facebook, I feel like I've really arrived now.
― louie mensch (milo z), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link
the alt-left??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a57036/trump-charlottesville-press-conference/
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:49 (six years ago) link
These people are so young wtf
I keep flashing on this thing that happened to a younger friend of mine a few years ago. He was dating this college student who was a little younger than him (iirc, she was 19 or 20), and who was mixed race (Polish-Hispanic). She had to read Mein Kampf for a class. She got really into it, and starting having arguments with him and others about how--Holocaust aside--Hitler was really progressive.
Needless to say, he dumped her pretty quickly after that. Also pretty sure she's a red-hatter now.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 22:59 (six years ago) link
We should allow abortion until the fetus reaches the age of 25.
― louie mensch (milo z), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:05 (six years ago) link
A lot of those dudes looked like average college students.. not meathead brawlers OR 4chan shut ins. This shouldn't be shocking to me but it was.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:11 (six years ago) link
now now let's not judge nazis by their appearance
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:16 (six years ago) link
can't judge a Reich by its Furher
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:18 (six years ago) link
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
self-selection. the meathead brawlers all got stuck at a Hooters on the way to C'ville and the shut ins never made it out the door.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
the cover story in the September issue of Harper's by Seyward Darby is really good. she interviews a bunch of prominent women on the alt-right. everyone she talks to makes no sense, contradicts themselves, and are easily flustered. good story!
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/events/266804640483421/
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:23 (six years ago) link
america is racist as fuc and i'm sure there are a lot of people who don't want to see confederate 'heritage' discarded, but . . . nazis? i mean straight up people carrying nazi flags and chanting about jews and blood and soil?
i'd like to think that's fucking finally a step too far, but maybe i'm wrong. apparently it's not too much for paul ryan
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:27 (six years ago) link
hey come on now Ryan said some *very* strong words
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:28 (six years ago) link
before putting Trump's dick back in his mouth
The Rise of the Valkyries: In the alt-right, women are the future, and the problem, by Seyward Darby.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:47 (six years ago) link
This guy is very smart
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2017/06/29/skin-in-the-game-how-antisemitism-animates-white-nationalism/#sthash.GEZGMCWg.dpbs
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 23:48 (six years ago) link
all you libtards are just sensitive flowers
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/daily-caller-compilation-cars-plowing-into-protesters
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:07 (six years ago) link
the anti-trump logo thing is stupid tbh, plain old swastika is more impactful and it's not like the problem is limited to one powerful dumbass
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:18 (six years ago) link
what you have to understand is that college students almost never have ideas when they get to college and they are very emotional and typically kind of dumb
― j., Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:36 (six years ago) link
idk, i feel like 'nazis are bad' is an idea that's been pretty strong and well-distributed for the last 80 years or so
i don't doubt that they're dumb/emotional, but it takes a little extra to chant 'jews will not replace us'
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:43 (six years ago) link
it gets passed down generation to generation a lot too, esp in the South. doesn't matter if the racist beliefs are more benign when presented to kids, there's always someone who can take that seed and push them where their parents/grandparents resisted going. esp in college.
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:47 (six years ago) link
for example, the older dude who oversaw the horrific beating in the Charlottesvile parking lot - 2 or 3 of these dudes have been ID'd as well as him, he got kicked out of the military for stealing guns and giving them to the KKK (see Shaun King tweets)
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 00:56 (six years ago) link
the way King patiently and persistently cascaded those pictures across the internet was fantastic. it's 2017, wait long enough and you'll be IDed for shit like this.
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 01:00 (six years ago) link
Dan thx for the article - good stuff
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 01:04 (six years ago) link
you tweet CNN reporter getting hit by a train, i say "Trump's dad was arrested at a KKK riot in 1927"
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 01:29 (six years ago) link
this is pretty good. shows car attack and aftermath though so *warning*. but just as a document its pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P54sP0Nlngg
― scott seward, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 06:30 (six years ago) link
'
huh so we got to the "Brandon dates a racist" arc in season 3 and I was actually kind of struck by how well it was handled/depicted (in contrast to the S1 "Brandon meets a black neighbor" episode). His girlfriend drops a number of snide comments - no n-words or overt slurs but plenty of subtle shade-throwing at Brandon's black boss, homeless people, etc. The last straw for Brandon is (of course) when she says some snarky anti-semitic shit about Andrea behind her back. Brandon actually references the Rodney King riots (and not even for the first time!), calls himself "a liberal kind of person", and, after initially trying to say he's willing to set aside their political differences, tells her to get lost and that it doesn't matter how well they get along, how attracted they are to each other. I had totally forgotten this storyline, was kind of surprising that it wasn't as super-clumsy as some of the other contemporary references.
― breastcrawl, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 11:52 (six years ago) link
plz ignore above post, self-generated by Zing
― breastcrawl, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 11:56 (six years ago) link
http://www.kare11.com/news/fargo-man-pro-white-activist-disowned-from-father-speaks-out/464509393
I am not usually a person who advocates watching videos associated with news stories but this one is low-key amazing. Just a man on camera, slowly and methodically saying really, really dumb things
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 17:52 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHUypPuVwAANoaY.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
barf at that^fake news->no YOU'RE fake newsalt-right->what about the alt-left??civil rights movement for blacks, LGBT et->ok what about civil rights movement for whites???
no real thoughts or ideas. just simplistic reactionary childish bullshit.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:07 (six years ago) link
was barfing at DJP's link but applies to Josh's too
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link
I think this quote sums up everything I find sad and pathetic about these people:
"As far as the term white supremacist goes, in my view anybody that thinks white people don't need advocacy, they're the white supremacists," Tefft said.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:10 (six years ago) link
I was about to post that quote. And then he sort of gives a "so there"! shrug at the end.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
no YOU'RE sad and pathetic!
j/k
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
when he's finally impeached or rage quits or whatever's gonna happen i hope people can resist the temptation to call 3Ks "alt-pres"
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:11 (six years ago) link
is it wrong that my first thought about this was "What would Aldo the Apache do"
https://t.co/qd5XHrS4GC
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:12 (six years ago) link
i wish everyone would just calm down about all this. erik had some friends over at the family winery and okay maybe things got a little out of hand, nobody's perfect
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:18 (six years ago) link
Have some joy.
Too good, Christopher Cantwell, one of the #Charlottesville neo-nazis cries his eyes out at threat of arrest https://t.co/XteAzcofSa— Henry Langston (@Henry_Langston) August 16, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
is that one of the murderous parking lot guys?
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
lol @ we spout violence and act tough online but we're actually pussies and we're just funs-ing around online
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
no he's the subject of the Vice documentary making the rounds
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:30 (six years ago) link
luv2see crying nazis, more tears pls
― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
bottle em up and sell them at Wawa
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
I'd totally buy a Nazi tears 12 pack
Max Bialystock: There, there. Franz Liebkind: Where? Where?
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
that vice coverage is so weird. from the channel that brought us gavin mcinnes and american apparel ads.
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
These guys looked very Brooklyn 2010
― Treeship, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
yeah really, and actually i would love for nu-Vice to go hard at Gavin, considering i think they bear some responsibility for the alt-right. unless they surprise me, it's never gonna happen though.
― nomar, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
vice nazi crybaby is like timothy treadwell's evil cousin
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
It's a very different media company than it was
― Treeship, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
man we need some progressive brewery to get on this ASAP
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
The thing about the rebranding of Vice is a) it was less than 10 years ago, b) they wouldn't have had the luxury of doing it had they not ridden Gavin's outlook into a giant pile of VC money, and c) there are more than 2 media companies out there, meaning I can get information from sources where it isn't a confirmed fact that one of the cofounders is now giving talks promoting white supremacy.
If Vice is still around 50 years from now fighting the good fight, I may give them another chance as I lay in my bed in the nursing home.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
Cantwell: "If I was a violent guy, you would have heard about it by now"
30 seconds earlier...
"I've been engaged in violence, I have"
― jmm, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:52 (six years ago) link
they made their money on a platform of cloaking bigotry in hipster disguise and actual racism in the disguise of ironic racism. they continue to profit on the purported "edginess" of their early days. those early mags which were piled up for free strategically in certain neighborhoods in L.A., you start to wonder if Gavin wasn't trying to insert racist ideology at a just-above-subconscious level. you start to wonder if it worked on particularly impressionable types.
― nomar, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
lmao that gavin is "catholic" now
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
wonder if Gavin wasn't trying to insert racist ideology at a just-above-subconscious level. you start to wonder if it worked on particularly impressionable types.
^^ive enjoyed some of Vice's work since Gavin left but nomar def otm here.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
space nursing home. it'll be a space nursing home
― j., Wednesday, 16 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
local angle on this crap: an experienced litigator turns out to be head of racist metal label
http://www.citypages.com/music/one-minneapolis-lawyers-neo-nazi-record-label-and-the-fight-to-shut-it-down/440595353
(checking his firm's website, his presence has already been removed hmmm)
― goole, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
xp: damn skippy it will be a space nursing home
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
hey who'da thunk it
Netanyahu's son says Black Lives Matter are 'thugs,' worse than Neo-Nazis https://t.co/aVLUQ5W35z— (((YousefMunayyer))) (@YousefMunayyer) August 16, 2017
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:02 (six years ago) link
Nazis are in the past week
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:05 (six years ago) link
i can just see that photo getting turned into a Facebook meme for assholes with that quote sitting there in the empty space
― nomar, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:05 (six years ago) link
hahahhaahhaha pic.twitter.com/QAWxUZm02l— Will 🐋 Menaker (@willmenaker) August 16, 2017
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:10 (six years ago) link
I mentioned the nazi rally death to the israeli doctor giving me a weed recommendation on saturday (lol california) and the motherfucker's response is 'well they shouldnt be in the street.'
DID YOU HEAR WHAT I JUST FUCKING SAID???
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:18 (six years ago) link
yeah what kind of weed did he recommend?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
Prussian Blue
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:26 (six years ago) link
xxp AAAAARGH
they had a fucking permit!
I've seen unbelievable hostility from otherwise normal people re: protestors in street for at least 20 years now, bums me out so hard
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
where do republicans end and nazis begin?― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:10 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkthe buffet line at a Presbyterian church― Neanderthal, Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:10 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
still laughing at this
― sciatica, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
"blocking traffic" is the right wing coded talking point that has most successfully penetrated my liberal bubble
― sciatica, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:51 (six years ago) link
The VICE video that everyone is linking to really is worth the time to watch:
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link
Also disappointed at leftists going after the ACLU for defending Nazis right to march cuz duh this is what the ACLU has always done and they are correct "hate speech" short of specific incitement to violence is 100% legal― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 13 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
LOL this garbage.
This is good on the free speech junkies.
Point: genocide is good we should do itCounterpoint: this very format makes genocide a conceivable policy option, which is fascists goal pic.twitter.com/gUfWQJkwtB— Joseph (@JosephKay76) August 16, 2017
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link
maybe blame the C'ville police for standing back and letting chaos reign
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:57 (six years ago) link
(guilty free speech junkie here.)
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
although this sort of thing doesn't come up much in NY demonstrations because we have RELATIVELY SANE GUN LAWS
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
I will not be moved on this point. They had a right to march and chant their garbage. They did not have a right to threaten, assault and murder people, and the city/cops/permitting agencies were wrong not to foresee and deal with them as a threat to public safety, which they are.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
it's almost like the laws on this are different here than in the UK
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:01 (six years ago) link
(outic otm)
also it is so bizarre to see people on the left wanting to have the gov't to take a heavier hand on limiting free speech, cuz historically it's not right-wing speech that the gov't has been eager to limit. COINTELPRO didn't target the KKK.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:02 (six years ago) link
Shakey and I being in agreement is incontrovertible proof of truth
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:02 (six years ago) link
Yeah my thing is I don't want to debate them, just want to see them at the end of a rope.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:03 (six years ago) link
and I don't want to move you LOL, just scanned through and saw your turd of a post.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:04 (six years ago) link
the_donald watch:
FLASHBACK: Before the "Trump-Russia" conspiracy, the DNC e-mails were widely reported as a LEAK and NOT a hack!!!VERY FAKE NEWS (archive.is)Hope Hicks, 28, to be named new White House communications director. SHES 28! (dailymail.co.uk)My daughter was banned from Facebook today for saying "What if I told you that you can support the president and not be a Nazi?" (self.The_Donald)The reason "NAZIS" are being thrown around in every sentence is this...Even rag news "Salon" is reporting the DNC hack was actually a leak. 7 months of work is crashing down. Push this. (twitter.com)BREAKING: After being caught in a lie, the FBI has decided to reopen our case into the secret Clinton-Lynch meeting.IMPORTANT (twitter.com)WHAT JUST HAPPENED: Report is published PROVING DNC emails were LEAKED from somebody on the inside 5 days before Seth Rich was murdered. Even lefty magazines The Nation and Salon are writing articles. Left fires "white supremacist" nuke at Trump - and misses. They're desperate now. (self.The_Donald)
Hope Hicks, 28, to be named new White House communications director. SHES 28! (dailymail.co.uk)
My daughter was banned from Facebook today for saying "What if I told you that you can support the president and not be a Nazi?" (self.The_Donald)
The reason "NAZIS" are being thrown around in every sentence is this...Even rag news "Salon" is reporting the DNC hack was actually a leak. 7 months of work is crashing down. Push this. (twitter.com)
BREAKING: After being caught in a lie, the FBI has decided to reopen our case into the secret Clinton-Lynch meeting.IMPORTANT (twitter.com)
WHAT JUST HAPPENED: Report is published PROVING DNC emails were LEAKED from somebody on the inside 5 days before Seth Rich was murdered. Even lefty magazines The Nation and Salon are writing articles. Left fires "white supremacist" nuke at Trump - and misses. They're desperate now. (self.The_Donald)
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:06 (six years ago) link
If only the police - whose large section sympathise with these Nazis and kill black people - would only stop these Nazis.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:09 (six years ago) link
Just like your boy Stalin
― softie (silby), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:10 (six years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:11 (six years ago) link
fire em and hire more black police
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:23 (six years ago) link
not gonna watch the vice thing. i've seen photos. i've seen videos. i dont want to support yet another group who has made a career profiting off the imagery of violent extremism.
imo boycott the nazi rallies. nobody shows up but news reporters. let them duke it out.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
just been thinking of all the 100k+ anti-war demonstrations the media completely slept on during the Iraq war. they choose to cover things for certain reasons, mostly to stoke fear. people have accepted the lie that there isn't an anti-war left. now 350 assholes are proof that half the country wants to kill us.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:36 (six years ago) link
shut the fuck up
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
my current "friends of friends" count is one dead, two injured by Nazis
"friends of friends of friends" is one dead, many injured by Nazis
just shut up
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
fire em and hire more black police― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's easier said than done. xps
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:42 (six years ago) link
They did not have a right to threaten
I've asked this rhetorically a few times now, and maybe one of you has the constitutional law backing to help me out, but how is an armed, angry mob whose stated goals and extensive history are violent and intimidating, not innately a public safety threat? Because the right to hate speech is one thing, but an actually seditious and dangerous hate group, with a stated platform of death and destruction or at least close associations with the same, why is that not as dangerous as someone walking down the street juggling chainsaws, let alone shouting fire in a crowded theatre?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:44 (six years ago) link
Like, if they were marching through Virginia shouting "Jews should be shot," is that covered by the 1st amendment? Because that's what you stand for if you fly a Nazi flag.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:46 (six years ago) link
I believe it would be covered, you have to single out a person and call to action.
good overview here:
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/16/16153248/free-speech-nazi-first-amendment-democracy-hate-speech
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:47 (six years ago) link
i thought the law was that anyone can assemble and say anything so long as it isn't directly threatening to a person. admittedly using charged symbols is threatening but "X should be shot" is different than "we will shoot X".
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
I'll have to spend some time with that Vox article. I just don't understand how innately violent groups with a history of violence, armed, can show up and inevitably provoke violence. If it happens everywhere they go, again and again, eventually don't you have to stop permitting it? Or force people to stand in one cordoned off place and shout from there?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:53 (six years ago) link
allowed: "all people with long hair should die"
not allowed: "let's kill that guy with the long hair, the one over there"
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:57 (six years ago) link
Shakey OTM. the insane & racist double standard of the cops not being aggressive & shooting rubber bullets at the neo-Nazis was disgusting. if 100s of black people marched ANYWHERE with torches, they would be shot, gassed, assaulted, etc. the police are responsible for allowing this to get out of hand. the KKK marched in Skokie, IL and they still have a right to march today.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
Perfect illustration of this here in Baltimore 2 years ago: in Sandtown-Winchester, near where Freddie Gray was arrested, protestors (majority black) breaking curfew were gassed, beaten, and arrested. on the same night in Hampden, a candle-light vigil was allowed to continue half an hour past curfew, with the cops very politely asking the mostly white residents to go home. just abhorrent and plain as day.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
(& just to clarify, i'm not advocating ott violence against any protestors like what we saw here in Baltimore and in Ferguson, but those cops in Charlottesville were hands off in a way that was sickeningly familiar).
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
I just don't understand how innately violent groups with a history of violence, armed, can show up and inevitably provoke violence
Except it's not always "inevitable." There was no violence in Skokie in '78 (?).
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
they def fucked up by allowing that car in. was the road not closed off?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
xp Skokie march was proposed in '77 but happened in '78, yeah. no violence
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
The argument I have heard made, which is half-legit, is that a shit ton of the protestors were open carrying, and often better armed than the police. The defense made by the police is, hey, no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it. And yet, that does not make this a success. If they felt too threatened to do their job, they should have called in the national guard. But then, if the national guard was called in and had to use force against an armed mob, I'm sure there would be many more dead or injured.
Guns, really, are what fucks up this free speech situation. The asshole gun right has done a sneaky job connecting the first and second amendments, allowing aggressive groups with first amendment rights to also claim to be defensive groups carrying guns not to intimidate but as self defense. It seems pretty circular and in some ways over-protects, constitutionally, people who are innately dangerous. Then again, the guy who hurt the most people used a car.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
was the road not closed off?
there are a lot of questions around that and I haven't seen any good answers yet
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:11 (six years ago) link
no shots were fired, nothing was destroyed. Which is really remarkable, if you think about it
it really is. two days of armed rioting, not a single shot fired. i saw lots of people wearing helmets, bringing bats, clubs, mace, etc. people had come to cause some shit.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:15 (six years ago) link
The reason people (including me) are pissed at the ACLU in this instance is not because the march happened, but because the ACLU sued to allow it to happen where it happened, and not at some more controllable park the city wanted it to happen at.
OK, so this was in the Atlantic a couple of days ago:
For decades, plans by groups like the Klan and neo-Nazis to march have been the subject of pitched battles, as towns try to bar them from coming, often to be rebuked by courts. In 1978, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that Nazis could march in Skokie, Illinois, saying that flying the swastika did not constitute fighting words. Arrests at Klan-related rallies—both of Klansmen and of their critics—are not uncommon. But in recent decades, bloodshed like what occurred in Charlottesville is rarer. (Of course, Klan members and other extremists have committed incredible acts of violence, including countless lynchings of black people, away from their marches.)
Key item is the notion of "fighting words." The article also claims that bloodshed is "rarer" than arrests at these rallies, but cites nothing.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
there's going to be a mass shooting at a protest of some kind eventually and it's going to be extremely grim and horrific
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
Hi DJP, just want to tell you how much I appreciate your presence on ILX, and also your Spotify post-election mixtape has been helping me get through these last few days, especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?" so thanks for that, too.
― horseshoe, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
<3
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
I appreciate all of you guys, tbh, at least to some degree. This is the worst I've felt on a daily basis since the days after the election.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
"at least to some degree" was not meant to be qualifying, btw, just that I know it would ultimately be healthier for me to just stay off the screen for a while, period.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:21 (six years ago) link
btw if anyone wants to see the playlist horseshoe is talking about:
https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/3kVB1Spf8xuXgfHSqcv4vr
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
I did a very similar one for Inauguration Day:
https://open.spotify.com/user/djperry1973/playlist/0UzUIhTNXuKCma2qML5R7U
very very otm, my sentiments exactly
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:24 (six years ago) link
I don't know enough law to have an opinion on that "controllable" stuff, but don't we wail when protestors at the GOP convention, for example, are confined to yelling in a pen 3 blocks away?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:27 (six years ago) link
especially Ice Cube's "When Will They Shoot?"
such a monster, this track
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
xp fair point but this was another public park afaik
― sleeve, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
this seems inevitable and tbf I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened already. ditto for sporting events.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:35 (six years ago) link
Well, maybe congressional sporting events.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:38 (six years ago) link
The guy who shot five police in Dallas did so at the end of a protest.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:45 (six years ago) link
targeted police killings kind of different imo
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
(or, at least, I don't think that's what global tetra was thinking of)
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/equality-justice-and-first-amendment
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 16 August 2017 22:05 (six years ago) link
oh great
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHYB0RDVoAAlFyN.jpg:large
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 22:51 (six years ago) link
It's all we'll and good that no shots were fired over the weekend, but if these militias did open fire, what the heck would the cops have done being so out gunned?
― Moodles, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
They would have rolled in their armored personnel carriers. The idea that "the police are outgunned" is a bunch of bullshit. Go read some articles about the militarization of US police departments. The shit police departments have spent their money on this century is fucking terrifying.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 17 August 2017 00:14 (six years ago) link
Nazis coming to town? Here's a positive and creative response. #Resist pic.twitter.com/gcrHagYtJW— Cleve Jones (@CleveJones1) August 16, 2017
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 17 August 2017 00:20 (six years ago) link
this imgur gallery and its popularity (front page, 2,874 upvotes, only 274 downs) is telling. yes, imgur/reddit are populated by a bunch of severe assholes, but i think a lot more people in the U.S. think about the world in this way than we'd like to admit
http://imgur.com/gallery/GLVXs
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 17 August 2017 05:22 (six years ago) link
Very interesting, I just learned that apparently there is a relatively well known Civil War monument somewhere in Chicago, but it's dedicated to confederates who died in a POW camp here, and was ordered erected in the late 1800s by Pres. Cleveland in an effort to heal divisions. I saw it called "the largest mass grave in the Western Hemisphere." (4000 dead). It's in a private cemetery with some famous neighbors:
Oak Woods Cemetery is the final resting place for Harold Washington, Chicago's first black mayor; Jesse Owens, the runner who upstaged Adolf Hitler and Nazis by winning four gold medals at the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin; and civil rights leader Ida B. Wells, among many others.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 17 August 2017 11:47 (six years ago) link
juggalos are our comrades now, sorry
commie juggalo internet is cooler than anything ive ever done ever pic.twitter.com/enDuSTXUzN— a (@AeTBench) November 30, 2016
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:06 (six years ago) link
"I'm prepared for civil war, civil unrest, EMP (electro-magnetic pulse) attack from North Korea, Russia, invasion from a foreign government, my own government turning its guns against the people in an effort to disarm," says Hill, a 42-year-old paralegal who prefers the moniker "General Bloodagent" when leading the group he founded in 2008.
His is one of an estimated 165 armed anti-government militias currently operating in the United States. Their exact goals vary, but they are largely united by a distrust of government, a strong belief in individual liberties such as the right to bear arms, and, since last year's presidential campaign, an affinity with Donald Trump.
https://repubhub.icopyright.net/freePost.act?tag=3.14122?icx_id=20170817.doc-rm4pg
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:38 (six years ago) link
Still weird to me that the casino huckster guy captured the imaginations of all these kinds of people.
― Treeship, Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:48 (six years ago) link
JFC @ General Bloodanus
― Say, I Heard You Had a Quarrel With Your Best Girl (Old Lunch), Thursday, 17 August 2017 12:55 (six years ago) link
jfc my girlfriend's from jackson, ga and her folks live there. that place suuuucks
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 13:58 (six years ago) link
my best friend from college is from Jackson and he always talks about what a backwards hellhole it is. the downtown area is really pretty, though; that's where they film the Stranger Things in-town scenes
― crüt, Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:17 (six years ago) link
i picture General Bloodagent as Henry Gibson in The Blues Brothers
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:21 (six years ago) link
yeah it definitely has its quaint parts. just lotsa bumper stickers feat. cartoon zombie confederate soldiers waving the flag
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
like her younger brother who's kind of stuck there is an arty kid who went to scad and smokes weed but is like one bad muni govt experience from being "fergit, hell"
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:45 (six years ago) link
many xposts but yeah i'm terrified of some ar15 toting manaiac coming to the next big protest and unloading. something like that almost happened in mpls, some 4chan morons drove to town specifically to shoot up a BLM encampment. thankfully nobody died
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 17 August 2017 15:05 (six years ago) link
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Permit-for-right-wing-Crissy-Field-rally-to-get-11825139.php
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 17 August 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
God bless the family and the memory of Johnny Cash pic.twitter.com/y2pfGXZleJ— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) August 17, 2017
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
Recommend the interview with Terry McAuliffe from Pod Save the People. He says the protestors had 'better armor' than state police, not that they were 'better armed', btw, which doesn't really matter, but his information about how early they called in the National Guard and why.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:09 (six years ago) link
Also, at one point he says 'white supremacy? I don't even know what that is!' which is a stupid thing to say to DeRay Mckesson
― Frederik B, Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
You see CPD's APCs present in a few videos from Charlottesville and most of the Nazis had homemade shields.
― louie mensch (milo z), Thursday, 17 August 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
http://68.media.tumblr.com/667d5334af74c787bdcdb7dcfef87102/tumblr_ouu6vxq2G81r9wa2qo1_1280.png
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
lmao Dylan
― nomar, Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:29 (six years ago) link
Typical Dylan shit
― The Man Who Saw The Midwife (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 17 August 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
they must have an RSS feed set up to respond to this shit so quickly
― Neanderthal, Friday, 18 August 2017 00:01 (six years ago) link
Spencer's organization requested space for a speaker at the university where I work and they pondered it for a day and told him to fuck off. The college republicans just followed up with a statement that basically said "yeah we're cool with that, those guys are violent assholes".
Compare this to the university I used to work at where the president of the CR was actually carrying a torch in Charlottesville last Friday and stepped down under pressure this week.
― joygoat, Friday, 18 August 2017 01:01 (six years ago) link
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:18 (yesterday) Permalink
― nomar, Thursday, 17 August 2017 20:29 (yesterday) Permalink
Sympathizing with the empire instead of the rebels is actually a bit of an alt-right meme, so this isn't a surprising response.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 18 August 2017 02:16 (six years ago) link
ACLU announces they will no longer defend free speech claims from groups that insist on being armed
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 03:35 (six years ago) link
Will they defend gun-toting NRA members who claim they are being discriminated against by people who see their weapons of self-protection as threats?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 03:50 (six years ago) link
I've been reading to much Robert Caro recently, but is there any possibility that the Senate Judiciary Committee establishes a subcommittee to investigate White Nationalist Terrorism? I note both Jeff Flake and Lindsay Graham are on the committee, and they want somewhere to retaliate against Trump...
Questions like who founds Jason Kessler? The Proud Boys? Vanguard America? Did James Fields just drive to Virginia from Ohio on his own, paying for everything out of his own pocket?
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 August 2017 10:48 (six years ago) link
How much of a crossover is there between the very public stuff like this and the more traditional, less media-savvy, organised white nationalist / militia threat (Elohim City, etc)?
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Friday, 18 August 2017 11:13 (six years ago) link
All I know is that the III percenters have provided security for events like the one in Charlottesville. They claim to reject white supremacist ideology, but they have a history of violence.
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2016/01/05/profiles-on-the-right-three-percenters/#sthash.B4kwnFiA.dpbs
Numerous arrests of Three Percenters and those who have shown affinity with them have been documented. Allen “Lance” Scarsella, who was arrested in connection with the shooting of five people at a Black Lives Matter demonstration in Minneapolis in November 2015, showed an affinity for the Three Percenters.10 So did Jerad Miller, who was at the Bundy Ranch before he and his wife, Amanda, were involved in a June 2014 ambush of police officers and subsequent shootout that left five dead, including the Millers.11 Three Percenter Brad Bartelt threatened to detonate a homemade explosive on Arkansas State University’s campus in December 201512. Brandon D. Gibbs, who was heavily armed and armored when police arrested him in December 2014 for threatening a city official, also had shown an affinity for the Three Percenters.13 And in 2011, Frederick Thomas was arrested in Georgia as a member of a militia group, which “planned to attack cities including Atlanta with deadly ricin, bomb federal buildings and murder law enforcement officials and others.”14 Thomas was allegedly inspired by Vanderboegh’s online novel Absolved; it describes a future confrontation where activists with Patriot movement views have a shootout with law enforcement and plan to murder government officials.
Also, the guy arrested in the recent OKC bomb plot was a 3%er, and Minneapolis shooter Allen Scarsella expressed admiration for the III percenters.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Friday, 18 August 2017 12:43 (six years ago) link
Short of the FBI outright abdicating its duties, I think they're likely on this stuff, as always. Probably just not making as public thing of it as they should.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:01 (six years ago) link
Yeah, Terry McAuliffe said he activated the National Guard last thursday, because of information from the FBI.
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:06 (six years ago) link
Now the DOJ, otoh, Sessions is a shit, I don't trust him to get results.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:09 (six years ago) link
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/politics/heather-heyer-susan-bro-donald-trump/index.html
how long before Trump publicly criticizes the victim's mother? p much lights out if he does, but it could be Khan part 2
― Neanderthal, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:15 (six years ago) link
He was elected President after Khan Part 1.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Friday, 18 August 2017 13:32 (six years ago) link
yeah but there's a diff between it occurring early in an election cycle when facing an unpopular opponent or in the midst of being President while already historically unpopular and being investigated for Russia collusion.
― Neanderthal, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:35 (six years ago) link
From a rally a couple years ago, I endorse this mode of trolling:
Trying some comedy. Tuba player ridicules KKK with a trolling serenade of slow, lumbering cartoon music then onto Ride of the Valkyries pic.twitter.com/2iWfGnCmyB— RiotWomenn (@riotwomennn) August 18, 2017
― Moodles, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
Mingus did that really good back in the day, when his record company wouldn't let him include the vocal version of Fables of Faubus.
― calzino, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:48 (six years ago) link
too much time on ilx alert: for a split-second there your mention of mingus made me think 'stevie's cat???'
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
that would have escaped my attention as I'm vehemently against the furry serial killers, and totally a dog person.
― calzino, Friday, 18 August 2017 13:58 (six years ago) link
fp'd u
with a heavy heart, admittedly, but it had to be done
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 14:03 (six years ago) link
that tuba shit makes me laugh
― marcos, Friday, 18 August 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
An EDL march in Liverpool was dispersed by people with a sound system following the bigots around, playing the Benny Hill theme.
― kim jong deal (suzy), Friday, 18 August 2017 14:44 (six years ago) link
also a big fan of the tactic of sponsoring right-wing marches against their will so that for every 100 metres they walk $10 or whatever is donated to progressive causes
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 14:46 (six years ago) link
xp Then there's the English Disco Lovers - "Don't hate, gyrate"
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 18 August 2017 14:51 (six years ago) link
omg that tuba clip looool
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:20 (six years ago) link
for Bay Area peeps:
IndivisibleSF is asking folks to urge the Natl Park Service to REVOKE the permit for the planned white supremacist rally at Crissy Field (scheduled for 8/26). Public safety issue. The NPS has not yet made a final determination as of tonight. The decision is apparently being made locally.
Email: goga_1st_amendm✧✧✧@n✧✧.g✧✧. Or call GGNRA Superintendent Cicely Muldoon: 415.561.4720
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:25 (six years ago) link
i def support anti-nazi protest rallies becoming trolling circuses that also involve raising money in some way anchored to nazi attendance
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:25 (six years ago) link
wtf happened to the e-mail address
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:26 (six years ago) link
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/346979-pro-trump-rally-set-to-take-place-the-same-day-as-juggalo-march-in-dc
A pro-President Trump rally that has declared itself the “Woodstock for the silent majority” and "Mother of All Rallies (M.O.A.R)" will take place on the same day as the Juggalo March on Washington.
https://www.gq.com/story/juggalos-trump-march
We live in the universe where a reality star is allowing the rise of Nazis and white supremacists, and where face-painted rappers the Insane Clown Posse might end up being an important part of the resistance against encroaching fascism.
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:26 (six years ago) link
humiliation is a powerful weapon, especially against those who carry themselves with the righteous self-importance these dickheads do
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:28 (six years ago) link
I STAND WITH THE JUGGALOS
whoop whoop
― gbx, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
*involve raising money for anti-nazi causes in some way anchored to nazi attendance
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:35 (six years ago) link
KKK about to march in Durham
http://www.heraldsun.com/latest-news/article167934812.html
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link
not sure if this was a rhetorical question but the short answer is (afaict) no
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 15:42 (six years ago) link
this guy looks familiar
pic.twitter.com/HLIoW43jdo— The Mountain Goats (@mountain_goats) August 18, 2017
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 16:31 (six years ago) link
get 'em, my man
― nomar, Friday, 18 August 2017 16:33 (six years ago) link
Dred Scott statue removed from Maryland courthouse overnight.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 16:54 (six years ago) link
Statehouse, rather.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 16:55 (six years ago) link
uh that statue was not of Dred Scott
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
Sorry, just how I saw it reported.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
it was judge dredd iirc
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:07 (six years ago) link
Racist statue watch 2017
― committee on mindset metastructure (Hunt3r), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
where do they go? cause im
they took all the racist generalsput em in a racist museumwe tried to melt em downbut some white people still had to see em.
― committee on mindset metastructure (Hunt3r), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:16 (six years ago) link
don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone?
― Mordy, Friday, 18 August 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
lol writes self
we paved racist crapput up a bikeshare spotwith a dirtbag barand a paid phone-recharge slot
don't it always seem to go that some just talk shit- others get shit doneso we paved nazi crapput up a bikeshare spot
― committee on mindset metastructure (Hunt3r), Friday, 18 August 2017 17:21 (six years ago) link
http://68.media.tumblr.com/2b69cef1abe78fc75ac10a0ba8536ebb/tumblr_ouuakynzJa1wp0cmeo1_400.jpg
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
http://www.clickhole.com/article/next-level-gaming-new-call-duty-will-penalize-play-6513?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing
― nomar, Friday, 18 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/9XDpBv5acy— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) August 18, 2017
― Karl Malone, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:12 (six years ago) link
that kid's got a real bad case of nazi-face
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 20:13 (six years ago) link
that is straight up amazing
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 18 August 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
one could almost say... der fuhrer's face
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 August 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
Only 15?
An 18-year-old who participated in the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., said he has chosen to leave Boston University after receiving threats because of his beliefs.
"Massachusetts, and Boston in particular, are among the most left wing states and cities,” Nicholas Fuentes told the Boston Globe on Tuesday, describing the campus and city as "very dangerous." Fuentes said that he has received 15 death threats via email and social media in the past week.
"Probably anywhere I would go would be safer than Boston," said Fuentes, a supporter of President Donald Trump who runs his own political YouTube channel.
One woman was killed and many were injured when a man believed to be a white supremacist drove a car into a crowd of counter-protesters in Charlottesville on Saturday. Fuentes told the Globe he had attended the rally to protest immigration and multiculturalism, but said he was not a white nationalist or racist. "The rally was about not replacing white people,” he said.
Boston University President Robert Brown on Thursday condemned the Charlottesville violence ahead of a "free speech" rally set to take place in Boston on Saturday. Some right-wing extremists are slated to speak at the rally, and Boston leaders have spoken out against hate and violence in advance.
"Palpably evil acts, such as occurred in Charlottesville, invite the challenging question about what is and is not tolerable or morally acceptable in speech and accompanying deeds," Brown said in a letter to the university community. "It is clear to me, and I believe it a view that is broadly shared in our community, that a claim of inherent racial or ethnic superiority is abhorrent. We must, I believe, explicitly denounce white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups that make such claims."
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:46 (six years ago) link
Fuentes told the Globe he had attended the rally to protest immigration and multiculturalism, but said he was not a white nationalist or racist. "The rally was about not replacing white people,” he said.
― nomar, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
i have a question for Mr. Fuentes about immigration and multiculturalism
This person is 18.... he sounds like a Reagan-era conservative or something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTXsq6iqJUY
― jmm, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
He doesn't look quite as old for a teenager as some of his compatriots but if you watch the video clip he already has the voice of a 50-year old.
― louie mensch (milo z), Friday, 18 August 2017 20:53 (six years ago) link
i mean that is a seriously weird voice for an 18 year old
― nomar, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
hitler youth is a helluva drug
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 18 August 2017 20:57 (six years ago) link
death threats are a liability to his brand
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
being a Nazi, not so much
white nationalist called fuentes. got to love it
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 18 August 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
"my brand"
can we just stop with this, white supremacist or not
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 18 August 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
I have a good idea for a brand we could give him
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Frepresentationsofantiquity.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F03%2Fvlcsnap-2012-03-22-22h05m47s210.png&f=1
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 August 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
In the multiplied objects of the external world I had no thoughts but for the teeth.
― how's life, Friday, 18 August 2017 22:18 (six years ago) link
Alex Jones is losing his mind. pic.twitter.com/UorRXjzUSD— jordan 🌹🌹 (@JordanUhl) August 18, 2017
"Fuck off""No you fuck off!""I AM fucking off!"
― nashwan, Friday, 18 August 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEMygEiSdc
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Saturday, 19 August 2017 00:21 (six years ago) link
― how's life
can't tell if that's a reference to poe or mr. bungle.
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 19 August 2017 03:43 (six years ago) link
Xp So nerdy blue blazered Alex Keatonesque teens becoming white nationalists now?
― Treeship, Saturday, 19 August 2017 04:52 (six years ago) link
Is sadistic Randianism not enough for them anymore?
― Treeship, Saturday, 19 August 2017 04:56 (six years ago) link
That's always been a blurry line.
cf "From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: “To a gas chamber–go!”"
― louie mensch (milo z), Saturday, 19 August 2017 06:12 (six years ago) link
It's more of a surprise that people are surprised at the libertarian-white nationalist crossover. Ron Paul was peddling white nationalism and the gold standard 30 years ago.
― louie mensch (milo z), Saturday, 19 August 2017 06:13 (six years ago) link
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Friday, August 18, 2017 2:52 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Mingus is totally antifa
― not not not not yr academy (stevie), Saturday, 19 August 2017 08:01 (six years ago) link
proud to have mingus as a comrade
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 19 August 2017 08:13 (six years ago) link
https://68.media.tumblr.com/9e41bb78c92cec9bc5e1e8d869af2cff/tumblr_o3fno0voVd1qi8u94o4_250.pngPaulie G knows the score!
― calzino, Saturday, 19 August 2017 08:34 (six years ago) link
calzino: not a fan of anti-antifa felines
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 19 August 2017 08:54 (six years ago) link
Since a sadistic murder was committed near my bird-feeding station last summer, I have a water blaster full of dirty dishwater at the ready. And this time it's personal!
― calzino, Saturday, 19 August 2017 09:01 (six years ago) link
if this was the plot of the death wish remake i'd be into it tbh
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 19 August 2017 09:15 (six years ago) link
omg
This #Antifa manual stolen from #Charlottesville proves they are calculated frauds. Racist against #Whites. Call those who disagree #Hitler. pic.twitter.com/HIcYBAtuDX— Joyreaper™🔥 (@joyreaper) August 18, 2017
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 19 August 2017 12:32 (six years ago) link
can't believe someone in antifa would be stupid enough to leave their top-secret white genocide manual just lying around
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 19 August 2017 12:33 (six years ago) link
If I know anything about secret documents it's that they're always crumpled and have a big coffee stain on the cover. Looks legit.
― jmm, Saturday, 19 August 2017 12:40 (six years ago) link
It's very important to control the media
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Saturday, 19 August 2017 12:41 (six years ago) link
"I have to write this order to kill all white men, but my pen won't work - I know, I'll scribble on my top secret antifa manual. Now, where is it...oh no! I've put my coffee on it!"
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Saturday, 19 August 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
Definitely no cis white guys in black bloc that's for sure
PS you forgot "het"
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Saturday, 19 August 2017 13:47 (six years ago) link
the protocols of the elders of antifa
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 August 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
Elders of Antifa = dope board game
― Neanderthal, Saturday, 19 August 2017 13:54 (six years ago) link
Some people are saying that the manual was found at Evergreen. It must have been stolen back by Antifa prior to Charlottesville. Everyone wants the manual.
― jmm, Saturday, 19 August 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
this will end well!
https://www.propublica.org/article/spurned-by-major-companies-the-daily-stormer-returns-to-the-web
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Saturday, 19 August 2017 17:33 (six years ago) link
“People should be given the right to express their ideas,” he said, adding: “I thought it would really get my service out there.”
This young man shows enterprise and entrepreneurial spirit! Ayn would approve.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 19 August 2017 17:38 (six years ago) link
xp I give that arrangement about 2 weeks
― May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Saturday, 19 August 2017 19:07 (six years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/ueCx5tdbjC— Adam Rawnsley (@arawnsley) August 19, 2017
And ppl say the left can't meme
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Sunday, 20 August 2017 00:00 (six years ago) link
Pareene on College Republicans and the alt-right
http://splinternews.com/charlottesville-was-a-preview-of-the-future-of-the-repu-1797988745
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 20 August 2017 04:25 (six years ago) link
Seems a little ahistorical not to mention Birchers, YAF, etc. this is not that different than what has come before. Dumber, maybe.
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Sunday, 20 August 2017 12:48 (six years ago) link
Cast your mind back to the time when the greatest threat to free speech in American civic life was liberal students attempting to shut down conservative celebrities on college campuses. What was the actual cause of that spate of stories?
Is the guy that wrote this really young or just stupid, because this has been going on for the past 20 years.
― sansa riff (sarahell), Sunday, 20 August 2017 13:39 (six years ago) link
it's a joke; he's talking about like 5 months ago
― assawoman bay (harbl), Sunday, 20 August 2017 13:58 (six years ago) link
This is bonkers. Israel's government says don't overreact to neo-Nazis in the US because it could hurt relations with Trump. Totally insane. pic.twitter.com/wqiXwOLDMj— Brian Klaas (@brianklaas) August 20, 2017
go easy on the nazis, says netanyahu
― k3vin k., Sunday, 20 August 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
That seems like a good candidate for Israel to World: "Suck It."
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Sunday, 20 August 2017 17:08 (six years ago) link
top 2 corrupt heads of state suffering from dementia tbh
― softie (silby), Sunday, 20 August 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
http://www.statesman.com/news/local/removing-confederate-statues-from-south-mall/g4yylLQXmHni95DraX1vGM/
go longhorns
― Clay, Monday, 21 August 2017 06:15 (six years ago) link
xref ilf, Photoshop arshavin threads
http://www.football365.com/news/podolski-to-sue-breitbart-after-migrant-jet-ski-story
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Monday, 21 August 2017 14:41 (six years ago) link
"There is no evidence Mr Podolski is either a migrant gang member, nor being human trafficked"
― softie (silby), Monday, 21 August 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
looooooooool
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 15:17 (six years ago) link
If Mehmet Ozil had been human trafficked that might just explain his level of performance for Arsenal.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Monday, 21 August 2017 15:20 (six years ago) link
Ex-Arsenal and Germany striker considers legal action over photo error
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Monday, 21 August 2017 17:42 (six years ago) link
good luck trying to prove to the court you're not a migrant gang member, mr podolski - if that is even your real name
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 August 2017 17:58 (six years ago) link
"He was a migrant actually, emigrating to West-Germany from Poland two years before the wall came down."
^^ breitbart defence
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 21 August 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
Commie bastard.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 21 August 2017 18:02 (six years ago) link
Confederate flip-off kid kicked out of Pensacola Christian College.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 21 August 2017 19:15 (six years ago) link
He told the paper that he wanted to make the trip to Virginia because he wanted to take back the history of his ancestors he felt the KKK and Nazis were misinterpreting. He said he hoped to share “the true history” of the South and push back against Neo-Nazis he feels have wrongly “latched on” to Confederate history.“I went up there to represent what I believe is right,” he told the News Journal.In an Associated Press video, Armentrout said “they need to know what they fought for wasn’t slavery or oppression.”
“I went up there to represent what I believe is right,” he told the News Journal.
In an Associated Press video, Armentrout said “they need to know what they fought for wasn’t slavery or oppression.”
I think maybe you should take a do-over on high school history before you head back to college.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 21 August 2017 19:20 (six years ago) link
yeah, sure is hard to imagine any ideological overlap between the confederacy, nazis and the kkk
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 August 2017 19:22 (six years ago) link
redundant post alert, zing to blame
― licking the yellow Toad next to the teleporter (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 21 August 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link
For all I know this made the rounds, but I had never seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=140&v=gnXBeQwmmrc
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 August 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnXBeQwmmrc
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 August 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
he just likes to be offensive, no biggie
― Οὖτις, Monday, 21 August 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
that is an amazing video
― Karl Malone, Monday, 21 August 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
Doffcoat
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
To be fair to breitbart, and let's not be but anyway, that is an amazing picture of podolski for the purposes of the article. If he looked any more like the caricature requested Jason Statham would have to enter stage right to take the pair of them out
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Monday, 21 August 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
https://www.twitter.com/E_JonesFi/status/897506553141620737
― Jackson Galactic Brain Meme (kingfish), Monday, 21 August 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
Never thought I'd see the day. FP brings on Cernovich & describes him as a "National Security" reporter.https://t.co/iAnyXftTSq— Eric Jones (@E_JonesFi) August 15, 2017
FP FP
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Monday, 21 August 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
Great news:
BREAKING: After alt-right organizers saw huge counter-protests in Boston, they've canceled 67 "America First Rallies" scheduled in 36 states— Jon Cooper (@joncoopertweets) August 22, 2017
None of this "let them chant their garbage" nonsense. Violence works, and long may it continue.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
hey asshole, the counter-protests in Boston were PEACEFUL
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:30 (six years ago) link
yeah exactly, wtf. Boston was amazing because the counter-protestors dwarfed the actual protestors. why would you advocate unprompted violence?
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
Because they want to deny non-white ppl their right to live?
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
Peaceful because of numbers, and on that occasion.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
^^^^internet hardman
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
You wouldn't have had those numbers out without the events in Charlottesville. Sad but true.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
*goes elsewhere on the internet to find pictures of Mussolini's hanged, smashed body - will use if necessary* xp
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
People have the right to gather, march, and demonstrate peacefully. Retaliatory violence/self-defense is obviously acceptable, but initiating violence on otherwise peaceful/non-violent demonstrators is not.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
glad that's cleared up!
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:49 (six years ago) link
They are peaceful...about denying others their right to live.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
statement is an oxymoron
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
Yes, anti-racist demonstrators are noted worldwide for initiating physical violence.
Like, I'm sure it's happened somewhere at some point but I've never, ever seen that happen
xxp
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
I think as far as public demonstrations go, this is correct. (Military conflicts, political assassinations, etc. are a different story)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
um really
I mean
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2017/07/19/berkeley-middle-school-teacher-yvette-felarca-arrested-charges-inciting-riot/
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/YcQT4OI.gif
― nomar, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
this is p blatant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tt0lYQCTxA
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
there was that video of a woman wearing a red hat that said "Make Bitcoin Great Again" being interviewed by the local news and someone comes up and hits her in the face with a bike lock.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
punching Richard Spencer I approve of because it was more like a media stunt than inciting a riot or whatever. Felarca's actions were just kind of stupid and counterproductive, even tho I totally support and understand her motivations.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
I meant at events I've personally attended over the years
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
oh, well yeah that's different
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
if it isn't clear my stance is that different situations and different contexts call for different tactics. I don't get xyzzz's bloodthirst, which seems like the kind of thing stupid kids like to indulge in while cosplaying previous conflicts (hmm who does that remind you of)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
Have we solved it yet
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
I'm sure we're very close
and while I do think that instances of antifa/black bloc/etc striking first are mostly aberrations (or, in some cases, specifically instigated by undercover cops), I'm not about to cry over people who advocate genocide getting a whack or seven
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
yeah me neither
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
dwarf the fash with vastly superior numbers and violence is unneccesary
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:03 (six years ago) link
Point is advocating initiating violence against peaceful demonstrators is fucked and morally indefensible. Organizations like the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church affirm our right to free speech. Silencing & intimidating people with violence is a fascist tactic. Charlottesville was a different situation - they got violent.
xp jim OTM
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:03 (six years ago) link
Organizations like the KKK and the Westboro Baptist Church affirm our right to free speech.
Affording organizations like the KKK and Westboro Baptist Church platforms normalized their messaging and gave us President Trump. "Free speech" means you are free to criticize the government, not that you are entitled to a platform to disseminate hateful rhetoric.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:07 (six years ago) link
And, even you do gain a platform to spew bigoted garbage, that doesn't mean that others are disallowed from violently contradicting you or shutting you down.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:08 (six years ago) link
Can we all agree that the absolute most effective counterprotest tactic was bringing a camera, and documenting the individuals present?
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:09 (six years ago) link
the notion that people who advocate mass murder can express that "peacefully" is...a sketchy idea at best. what they are doing is not peaceful.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:09 (six years ago) link
Charlottesville was a different situation - they got violent.
They will get violent again. Its pretty naive to think they will not target and kill others and are just around to spread hate as a verbal message and chant.
They must be denied their right to march in the first place. When they march, they deny non-white ppl their space, they make the town where they march unsafe. They must be stopped by whatever means necessary. So yeah, violence against these ppl = good. xps
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:10 (six years ago) link
Can we all agree that the absolute most effective counterprotest tactic was bringing a camera, and documenting the individuals present?― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No agreement from me.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:11 (six years ago) link
Those individuals belong in a shut coffin, not in the unemployment queue.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
Hate speech is protected under the First Amendment. Initiating violence against peaceful protestors, no matter how loathsome and vile their views may be, is not acceptable. Denying their right to march is a very slippery slope.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
Change the 1st amendment. By whatever means necessary.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:13 (six years ago) link
lol Americans are obsessed with that amendment just amend it to add "except nazis" and it's still good
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:13 (six years ago) link
xp!
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:13 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
cuckoo cuckoo
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:15 (six years ago) link
great idea let's give Donald Trump a big old present to legally shut down anything he wants
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:17 (six years ago) link
I think that it's important to remind the xyz that, as of yet, we're not actually in the midst of a civil war and that killing people for what they believe is bad, no matter how vile their beliefs are.
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:18 (six years ago) link
There are plenty of ways to counter extremist rhetoric, and aggressive counter-protesting is oen, but advocating for deadly violence is not ok just because you're angry online
*is one
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
but its so easy and look at the attention you get for it
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:07 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:08 PM (seven minutes ago)
1) saying trump resulted from affording the KKK and WBC seems like a stretch. these sorts of organizations have always existed. in fact in the past they've been more popular and influential2) free speech also means (from the government's POV) you get to march and assemble just like everyone else. it doesn't refer only to criticizing the government. i know you know this but if we're going to debate constitutional rights let's at least keep basic things straight3) actually violently responding to a peaceful march is illegal, even if it's by the good guys. like what?? lol.
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link
in other words, flappy bird....otm?
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:25 (six years ago) link
who gives a fuck about legal
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:26 (six years ago) link
i mean we can have a (probably dumb) conversation about whether it's good tactics to rough up right-wing marchers, that's fine. but it's probably helpful that we not confuse morality and legality
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
Noam Chomsky: Antifa is a 'major gift to the right'
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:32 (six years ago) link
Chomsky's also pro-US-intervention in Syria at the moment sooooo
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
you are a ridiculous person
regardless of this silly statement, I do think there's a legit legal argument to be made (and the ACLU would appear to agree on this point) that armed, marching groups chanting hateful rhetoric is an explicit threat of violence that should not be protected by the 1st Amendment.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:36 (six years ago) link
jim otm about numbers, which is in its way a warning of potential violence. 'If you choose to get violent again, we will overwhelm' you is a pretty effective tactic.
― louie mensch (milo z), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
I do think there's a legit legal argument to be made (and the ACLU would appear to agree on this point) that armed, marching groups chanting hateful rhetoric is an explicit threat of violence
solitary posts that sum up America
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:39 (six years ago) link
stfu, Noam. next he's going to disavow Food Not Bombs.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:40 (six years ago) link
Chomsky has been copying and pasting that exact sentiment for months (I've seen it in the same words as what the Examiner quoted as new) - I do think it's taken out of context a bit, though. He's not saying don't show up, don't counter-protest, he's saying that letting an undisciplined, tiny group run wild is tactically poor. Hard to disagree with that. 20 years on, all anyone remembers about late '90s opposition to globalization are broken Starbucks windows.
― louie mensch (milo z), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:41 (six years ago) link
Oh, they don't even remember that.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
The anti-globalization movement was much less in the mainstream consciousness iirc. Comparatively speaking it was fairly esoteric to most people
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
And that they were wearing Adidas trainers when they smashed the window!
Isn't the missing piece of this puzzle, about whether racists should be allowed to march, that for their part they would aggressively clamp down on expression by their enemies the minute they were able to? That they would use violence as soon as they could? They aren't just showing up to give their contribution to a discussion, but the idealistic language about freedom of expression, worthy though it is, seems to lead us into a fog on this point.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
shakey, genuinely curious to read the ACLU position on that if you have a link
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:00 (six years ago) link
god I have always hated this line of attack
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:00 (six years ago) link
Cf similar ones about how all these protesters go in to chain coffee bars to buy coffee.
xp to self - to be clear what I'm saying is that freedom of expression is clearly v important but that armed racists need to be thought of in terms of threat management rather than as if they were ppl who lie within the accepted spectrum of intent.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:03 (six years ago) link
well yeah that ACLU statement was important. I agree that armed marches should not be protected
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:05 (six years ago) link
http://thehill.com/homenews/347053-aclu-revises-policy-to-avoid-supporting-hate-groups-protesting-with-firearms
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:07 (six years ago) link
a major difference between Charlottesville and Boston is that the former is in an open-carry state while the latter isn't. the presence of arms makes all these moral calculations a lot more complicated. they embolden the extremists and dramatically increase the chance of violence.
it was smart of the ACLU to draw that line
― rock and roll tucci coo (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:07 (six years ago) link
oh yeah, scanned over the crucial modifier "armed". definitely an important distinction, good for the ACLU
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:14 (six years ago) link
voodoo chili is correct about the presence of weapons. it might or might not be wrong to strike first at people who advocate genocide but when they are all packing very deadly heat, and raising them in front of crowds while advocating for a platform of ethnic cleansing, their behavior verges into assault IMO. they pose an active danger of real harm to the most vulnerable people in the communities they descend upon.
i am still processing all this ethically tbh and i'm not quite ready to say that i'm 100% okay with beating them up before they do something even worse. but yknow i mean we're talking about screaming "you will not replace us!" to black churches while brandishing firearms. it's never simply a matter of speech with these guys - there were cases in charlottesville of nazis going after people - chases, intimidation, bullying, battery. they're trying out their program while they're speaking about it and are always on the verge of being more straightforwardly a lynch mob. might be that without violent antifa we would have seen much worse violence against local queers, PoC, etc. i don't know. i've been thinking myself in circles about this a lot this week. it's fucked.
― yellow is the color of some raisins (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
might be that without violent antifa we would have seen much worse violence against local queers, PoC, etc. i don't know
http://religiondispatches.org/dispatch-from-charlottesville-it-was-a-war-zone-it-felt-like-there-were-a-million-nazis/"Also, let me make clear that without antifa and anarchists being present in the streets, I may have been killed at the hands of fascists and white supremacists. This is important."
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
Cornel West (full disclosure: I think he is kind of nuts) said the same thing re: himself and the non-violent clergy he was there with
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:41 (six years ago) link
*Reads this dreck in a grown-up tone of voice*
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:44 (six years ago) link
I read all your posts in the voice of a 3 yo tbh
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
Chomsky manages to sound even worse than you - which is saying something.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
chomsky is bad now
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
You guys don't really need to argue with the resident tankie that much
― .oO (silby), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
Dammit
― .oO (silby), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
the resident BF Skinner more like
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
chomsky is bad now― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
On this occasion, yeah. I expect better from him, but its perhaps the one occasion where you feel there is a thing to the 'ivory tower' crit - too far away from the immediate dangers.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
We're cooking now lads were cookin
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
Does this cook of what?
You guys don't really need to argue with the resident tankie that much― .oO (silby), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― .oO (silby), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
"Tonight, I, uh, had to kill a lot of comrades"
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EBupU2CiEQ0/maxresdefault.jpg
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:13 (six years ago) link
life sure comes at u fast these days pic.twitter.com/ClCcSmActa— KRANG T. NELSON (@KrangTNelson) August 21, 2017
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:31 (six years ago) link
what's a tankie
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
Why should any private citizen initiate violence with a bunch of armed maniacs?
― Treeship, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
Organise ppl.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
apologist for communist violence particularly stalin/mao xxp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
tankie = stalinist basically
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:40 (six years ago) link
iirc it originated in britain and was a pejorative term for hardline cpgb members who supported the russian invasions (tanks rolling in hence the name) of hungary and czechoslovakia
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
wait, so has bethune finally come back to us then?
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
iirc Silby got to know some of my mannerisms through the Castro thread
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
Its pretty desperate I just want Nazis dead. Although Stalin, by killing them in the end, would do a far better job than many of you.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:44 (six years ago) link
surprised you aren't disappointed in Stalin for not pre-emptively invading Nazi Germany instead of being a totally deluded pussy and then getting caught flatfooted when they started to slaughter millions of his citizens
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:46 (six years ago) link
'in the end'
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:47 (six years ago) link
you would just go on a hoo-hah about the 1st amendment as they kill us.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:48 (six years ago) link
is this larry?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
Is this?
https://www.gq.com/story/dylann-roof-making-of-an-american-terrorist/amp
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:52 (six years ago) link
nah it's
http://taskandpurpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Screen-Shot-2016-06-07-at-5.05.12-PM.jpg
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:52 (six years ago) link
larry's not British
(neither is Aldo Raines btw)
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:54 (six years ago) link
brb going on a hoo-hah
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
I raised the First Amendment question in the free speech thread and Beria, Stalin, Zinoniev, et. al were not consulted.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 21:59 (six years ago) link
Scent of a truman xp
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 August 2017 22:00 (six years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/NjnuKFG.jpg
― As an ilxor, I am uncompromising (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 00:25 (six years ago) link
it's julio
― not not not not yr academy (stevie), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 07:14 (six years ago) link
in that krang t nelson tweet above, btw, millennial matt wasn't sent scarpering by violence and guns but because someone brought a camera and documented the rally on the internet
― not not not not yr academy (stevie), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 07:20 (six years ago) link
That person could go to another place, rebuild and organise with others.
And why wouldn't many learn from this and put masks in future?
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:10 (six years ago) link
Has anyone itt ever taken part in an act of political violence
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:11 (six years ago) link
i voted lib dem once
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:15 (six years ago) link
Damn, step back
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:18 (six years ago) link
No. It doesn't matter either way.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:23 (six years ago) link
Just checking
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:25 (six years ago) link
But now that Stevie has given away my not so secret actual name (lol) I could be lying.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:28 (six years ago) link
Ah don't worry I'd say we all believe you tbh
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 August 2017 09:31 (six years ago) link
welp, here we go
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 20:15 (six years ago) link
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Federal-permit-approved-for-far-right-rally-in-11953450.php
I've seen plans for a counter-rally at the downtown civic center but idk that seems like weak sauce to me. these people should be surrounded and shouted down by 10s of thousands just like in Boston.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 20:16 (six years ago) link
you should go then!
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 23 August 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
I gave it a lot of thought, but I had already signed up to do a phone bank for Swing Left that afternoon, and I don't think my wife wants to take the kids to an event where there could be potential violence. I understand that my temple is going to be involved with the counter-protests at least.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 20:19 (six years ago) link
From the sound of it there are a lot of people going to Crissy Field. There were ~150 people just at the security training hosted by SURJ last night.
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 23 August 2017 23:13 (six years ago) link
Why in the world was the 'progressive'/leftist reaction to the Charlottesville violence the EXACT SAME THING they admonish conservatives for -- a sneering "talk to the white people in your life and chastise them about white terrorism"?? -- this is precisely how ppl like, say, Milo Yiannopolis react to islamic terrorism. it's completely idiotic.
it's also a kind of noblesse oblige on behalf of fake white progressives - 'we would never, ever expect you all to take the high road when it comes to dealing with terrorists within your own identity clique... but we will' fucking phony and disgusting.
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 24 August 2017 03:37 (six years ago) link
I actually haven't heard that particular reaction anywhere; just some people pointing out the hypocrisy there, "imagine people actually saying this...?"
the thing that I wish got acknowledged more in all these idiot debates about whether or not the "Antifa" are "just as bad" or somewhat as bad or whatever is the hypothetical, "what if it was an ISIS rally?" ISIS shows up on the streets, armed to the teeth, chanting their ISIS slogans, and literally murders someone. now imagine there are counter-protestors, some of whom *do* start shit a bit prematurely, but ultimately outnumber and cause the ISIS folk to retreat. doesn't every single one of those people get hailed as an American hero, first and foremost by the President himself?
― frogbs, Thursday, 24 August 2017 03:52 (six years ago) link
that's a really strange way to characterize it. "chastise" them about white terrorism? "dealing with terrorists within your own identity clique"? are you saying a common reaction was for people on the left to advise everyone to tell their neo-nazi friends to fuck off? and that's the same as Milo fucking Milo talking about islamic terrorism? what? i guess i'm just like milo then, but yeah if you have a friend that's a neo-nazi you should probably tell them to fuck off and never talk to them again. sounds good to me. there's no high road there, there's just a big wide road and the being friends with a neo-nazi road.
does milo advise people to chastise the terrorists in their life? i only hate read him once but i guess i wouldn't put it past him.
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:04 (six years ago) link
firmly chastise a terrorist today
― I Love You, Fancybear (symsymsym), Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:07 (six years ago) link
facebook status update: i have had it up to HERE with my friends who are terrorists. if you're not a terrorist, like this message so i know who to NOT unfollow.
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:15 (six years ago) link
but yeah if you have a friend that's a neo-nazi you should probably tell them to fuck off and never talk to them again. sounds good to me. there's no high road there, there's just a big wide road and the being friends with a neo-nazi road.
NO ONE has a friend who's a neo nazi. these are several hundred or maybe thousand people in a country of hundreds of millions, probably about the same % as muslims who are terrorists. do you feel similarly compelled to remind all muslims to talk to their terrorist friends and tell them it's not cool?
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:16 (six years ago) link
i was being sarcastic because it's silly to imagine masses of people on the left calling out their neo-nazi friends. but that's what you characterized as the 'progressive'/leftist reaction.
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:23 (six years ago) link
milo yiannopolis is not a muslim, last i checked. the kinds of comments that i think sleepingbag is caricaturing are of the "hey other white liberals, i know we're used to being noncommittal or changing the subject when our family members or friends say racist or reactionary things but we need to stand up" or whatever, which we've basically been hearing endless variations on since the election especially.
― yellow is the color of some raisins (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 August 2017 04:28 (six years ago) link
Yeah, that's a really dumb equivalency. We live in a white supremacist democratic republic. If ISIS ran their territories as a democratic republic and hardcore jihadists were gaining traction I would consider it a duty of any Islamic Isis-ian to speak out against them and challenge their friends and family to confront their own biases to try to ensure there wouldn't be any more beheadings.
Even that is an incredibly weak parallel but it's a lot closer to reality than sleepingbag's comparison.
― Fetchboy, Thursday, 24 August 2017 05:07 (six years ago) link
I think the idea was to get white people to talk about white supremacy, not white terrorism?
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 August 2017 08:35 (six years ago) link
Who is sleepingbag
I cannot translate their post
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 August 2017 08:38 (six years ago) link
my preferred pronoun when you don't know who i am is 'his or her', fyi
― Frederik B, Thursday, August 24, 2017 2:35 AM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ok... to what end?
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 24 August 2017 08:56 (six years ago) link
I like how you're trying to elide the fact that your last post was incomprehensible bullshit by asking Fred B for clarification of his post
― Tarly Noise (El Tomboto), Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:19 (six years ago) link
― sleepingbag, 24. august 2017 10:56 (thirty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
To practice pronunciation. 'white supremacy, white supremacy, white su-PRE-macy, white su-PREE-macy'. Good for the mouth.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36 (six years ago) link
You know what else is good for the mouth
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:18 (six years ago) link
these are several hundred or maybe thousand people in a country of hundreds of millions
otm but the media amplification bubble is so strong people are convinced half the country is a hatemonger
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:52 (six years ago) link
that and the election of a hatemonger as president
― Neves Say Neves Again (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:56 (six years ago) link
That's a wee bit of a giveaway.
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 August 2017 10:58 (six years ago) link
maybe I don't understand the US electoral system and it only took a few hundred or maybe thousand votes to put a Nazi sympathiser in the White House
― Neves Say Neves Again (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:02 (six years ago) link
Yeah, the problem lies with the US electoral two-party system, rather than with the people. Half the American people don't like nazi sympathisers, they just prefer nazi sympathisers to women.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:09 (six years ago) link
"Their" is a much more elegant choice, and as an added attraction avoids gender binary issues x-post
― albvivertine, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:27 (six years ago) link
Are you sure? Hillary Clinton was an absolutely god awful candidate, regardless of her sex. I voted for her, but that walk to the voting booth was one of the longest in memory.
The problem is we have a two-party system, and both parties represent an oligarchy who's making a huge mess of people's lives. So we have a lot of disempowered, angry people who are also misled by the same amoral, unethical corporations (via the media) that have been doing this to them.
People seem to forget that stunning Princeton study that showed voters have a 0% influence on legislation passed.
Democrats only pass bandaid shit like the ACA to keep their legitimacy, but that doesn't have to last forever, and I very much doubt it's a long-term plan on their part, considering the resources they pour into fighting single payer or the burgeoning labor movement.
We are on our own out here. You morons, snap out of it.
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:35 (six years ago) link
WAKE UP SHEEPLE
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:47 (six years ago) link
What? You're a fucking sociopath, dude. You have no place to complain about Trump.
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:48 (six years ago) link
senisbile, proportionate response from ilx's most woke poster
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:49 (six years ago) link
senisbile? sorry, meant to write penisbile obv
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:50 (six years ago) link
"loooool epidemic political corruption, the dead lives caused by it, and our worsening lives is FUCKING FUNNy AS SHIT DUDES"
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:50 (six years ago) link
you're right, i should be making hostile posts on a board broadly sympathetic to my diagnosis of the western world's ills instead of... anything else
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:51 (six years ago) link
I don't think this board is sympathetic to it at all
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:52 (six years ago) link
Are you sure?
― carpet_kaiser, 24. august 2017 13:35 (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm 100% sure, serious, sane and sertain.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:52 (six years ago) link
people aren't sympathetic to you because you're a tiresome, performative irritant
that's not the same thing as thinking 'epidemic political corruption' or 'worsening lives' aren't a real thing
now fuck off you cunt
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 24 August 2017 11:57 (six years ago) link
We know who carpet_kaiser is
Are they different people tho
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:19 (six years ago) link
http://www.ilovebarbra.com/uploads/2/4/7/7/24773060/s133162934126535664_p31_i1_w2560.jpeg
― Gulley Jimson (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:23 (six years ago) link
a quick search shows sleepingbag writing posts since back in 2006
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:24 (six years ago) link
Guys what was that short lived 1979 sitcom starring Maclean Stevenson called? It's on the tip of my tongue...
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:29 (six years ago) link
Ulcer?
― not not not not yr academy (stevie), Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:49 (six years ago) link
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Hello_Larry_tv_show.jpg
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
http://s44.radikal.ru/i104/1003/08/52942312035b.jpg
― May contain peanuts, tree nuts, soy, wheat, pits or pit fragments. (WilliamC), Thursday, 24 August 2017 13:59 (six years ago) link
it's important to keep your sock drawer locked
― flappy bird, Thursday, 24 August 2017 14:47 (six years ago) link
lol how did sleepingbag revive a thread to complain about how he can't say "retard" anymore and not get banned from this site
― marcos, Thursday, 24 August 2017 14:52 (six years ago) link
Pobrecito
Just In: Virginia judge denies bail to crying neo-Nazi Christopher Cantwell https://t.co/KsbHY1FGVM pic.twitter.com/fXt9u17MHS— Raw Story (@RawStory) August 24, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 24 August 2017 14:57 (six years ago) link
when the fuck are they gonna arrest the parking lot dudes
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 August 2017 14:59 (six years ago) link
I assume we're not claiming that when people say 'Nazi' they mean actual members of the Nazi Party? Any more than 'Commie' refers to members of the Communist Party.
(lots of x-posts)
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
the alt-right is soft on nazis and russians :(
― reggie (qualmsley), Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:18 (six years ago) link
I was kinda wondering if it was worth at any stage differentiating between the government of a world power nazis vs the scatter of redneck unwashed belligerents nazis
Decided that tbh no it wasn't and fuck them
― jk rowling obituary thread (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:19 (six years ago) link
― .oO (silby), Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:22 (six years ago) link
The Right insisting that there's no problem because there's only a few thousand 'Nazis' is part of the problem.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:24 (six years ago) link
i thought sleeping bag was one of the milquetoast hillary supporters
― k3vin k., Thursday, 24 August 2017 17:47 (six years ago) link
oh huh I've been assuming sleepingbag was gabbneb, an extension of the "benbbag" variation
― yellow is the color of some raisins (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 August 2017 18:47 (six years ago) link
as a test, ask sleepingbag if he or she attended a top-rated university and see what kind of answer you get.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 24 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
They
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 August 2017 19:09 (six years ago) link
I got my valuable posters criss-crossed, sorry! McLean Stevenson sitcom was w/r/t carpet kaiser, idk sleepingbag
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 24 August 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
literally every time sleepingbag appears in a thread it is to articulate the worst possible opinion so i've been just automatically flagging their posts
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 24 August 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
this guy thinks he's so fucking funny
Russell Walker filed a lawsuit in York SC, demanding confederate flags be returned to the main courtroom @SpecNewsCLT pic.twitter.com/MVDYSEBIEe— Yoojin Cho (@Yoojin_Cho) August 24, 2017
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 August 2017 20:40 (six years ago) link
I hope he is charged for court costs for his little antic.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 24 August 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
I hope he is charged by bulls
― Neanderthal, Thursday, 24 August 2017 22:17 (six years ago) link
Fantastic drawing on Twitter by Kyle Baker:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIBr7rWWsAAJ683.jpg
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 24 August 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 August 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/24/san-francisco-dog-poo-protest-patriot-prayer-rally?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 August 2017 23:10 (six years ago) link
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, August 24, 2017 12:58 PM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'll have you know i attended finishing school in geneva and came out in new york winter of 85 you chode
― sleepingbag, Friday, 25 August 2017 05:49 (six years ago) link
That's some tunnel
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Friday, 25 August 2017 07:02 (six years ago) link
― Neanderthal, Friday, 25 August 2017 13:14 (six years ago) link
My sister-in-law was fostering 4 kittens until they were big enough to be spayed or neutered. They finally were ready, so we visited them one last time until they hopefully find a new home.
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/f7a4qiv6a1unf0b/20170823_202521.jpg?dl=0
― Moodles, Friday, 25 August 2017 13:38 (six years ago) link
heil kitler!
― imago, Friday, 25 August 2017 13:38 (six years ago) link
Kittler youth?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 August 2017 13:46 (six years ago) link
I was scratching my head over LJ's comment, seemed a little extreme. Took nearly an hour for me to realize this isn't the cute kitten thread.
― Moodles, Friday, 25 August 2017 14:27 (six years ago) link
thread vastly improved by cute kitten
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:05 (six years ago) link
There needs to be anti-fascist puppy/kitten parades.
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
there are kittens on many sides, many sides
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:48 (six years ago) link
No! There are no fascist kittens!
― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigmiaow.pl
― Old Lynch's Sex Paragraph (Phil D.), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
then explain this pls
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/a0/b5/08a0b5e94057703bc670d4a85b096215.jpg
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 25 August 2017 15:53 (six years ago) link
Is that cat wearing a wig?
― carpet_kaiser, Friday, 25 August 2017 15:55 (six years ago) link
a cat is never on the side of power
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 25 August 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
Nah I love the little bastards but cats are clearly authoritarian tyrants
― ultros ultros-ghali, Friday, 25 August 2017 18:18 (six years ago) link
otm the only thing stopping them from killing us all is size
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 25 August 2017 18:18 (six years ago) link
― ultros ultros-ghali, Friday, August 25, 2017 11:18 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, August 25, 2017 11:18 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
y'all need to familiarize yourself with the work of chris marker
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Friday, 25 August 2017 18:24 (six years ago) link
Cats are anarchists, dogs are bootlickers who'd be easily swayed by threats of external dangers.
― louie mensch (milo z), Friday, 25 August 2017 18:25 (six years ago) link
well at least this fuck's in jail and won't be at either rally this weekend: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Trump-booster-arrested-in-Berkeley-says-he-ll-11958240.php
― Οὖτις, Friday, 25 August 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
#BREAKING Organizers cancel Saturday’s far-right rally in San Francisco, will hold "press conference" instead. pic.twitter.com/2KiV8QKenI— SFChronicle (@sfchronicle) August 25, 2017
― Karl Malone, Friday, 25 August 2017 23:06 (six years ago) link
yup and lol
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Organizers-cancel-Saturday-s-far-right-rally-in-11961550.php
my friend who lives on Alamo Square is PISSED
― Οὖτις, Friday, 25 August 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-spencer-stayed-at-trump-dc-hotel-while-planning-charlottesville-rally02017-8
but her emails
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 25 August 2017 23:40 (six years ago) link
the organizer's email warning people to not go to the rally is some insane shit.. basically predicting her own death at the hands of antifa and warns people to not avenge her.
dont need to worry about that, girlfriend
Rotated: pic.twitter.com/gavzxGgKfi— mac (@macjaeh) August 25, 2017
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Saturday, 26 August 2017 00:01 (six years ago) link
"It's the same old cesspool," Richard Painter, the former ethics counsel in George W. Bush's administration told The Times. "It's just that now the president is getting a cut of the revenue."
― committee on mindset metastructure (Hunt3r), Saturday, 26 August 2017 00:01 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJUKix2t09Q
― tactical piñata (Sanpaku), Saturday, 26 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
"Based Stickman" not allowed to have sticks anymore
http://eastbayexpress.com/SevenDays/archives/2017/08/25/kyle-based-stickman-chapman-jailed-barred-from-possessing-sticks-and-other-weapons
― Wichita prepares for totality (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 26 August 2017 19:54 (six years ago) link
Based man
― The Adventures Of Whiteman (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 27 August 2017 08:21 (six years ago) link
Gas face to the basehead
― Jackson Galactic Brain Meme (kingfish), Sunday, 27 August 2017 09:46 (six years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/08/27/stormfront_has_been_kicked_offline.html
― Mordy, Monday, 28 August 2017 00:38 (six years ago) link
wow!!!!!!
― crüt, Monday, 28 August 2017 00:42 (six years ago) link
Sweet
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 00:55 (six years ago) link
Anarchists "overwhelm" Berkeley police: http://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Masked-anarchists-violently-rout-right-wing-12041287.php
In SF we basically chased them out of town non-violently but Berkeley does things differently. I dont really blame them tbh.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 01:07 (six years ago) link
To be fair, in SF the fascists used diversion tactics and didn't show their faces until later when most people had left Chrissy Field. If they had shown up at Alamo Square when multiple counter-protest marches were converging it most likely would've gotten violent. Less room to play hide and seek in Berkeley.
― Fetchboy, Monday, 28 August 2017 01:54 (six years ago) link
Yeah that's true
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 03:10 (six years ago) link
https://www.revealnews.org/blog/reveal-host-al-letson-shields-man-from-beating-at-anti-hate-rally/
― k3vin k., Monday, 28 August 2017 04:10 (six years ago) link
http://fortune.com/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/
― Frederik B, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:41 (six years ago) link
This fucking idiot
Dem Party thought they could control Occupy Wall Street & Black LIES Matter. They were wrong on that & will be wrong on controlling Antifa. pic.twitter.com/XNknY2pl7u— David A. Clarke, Jr. (@SheriffClarke) August 29, 2017
― Wichita prepares for totality (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 30 August 2017 01:25 (six years ago) link
this is really good:
https://thebaffler.com/latest/the-pizzagate-polity-grant
― goole, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 20:22 (six years ago) link
Aw, so sad
EXCLUSIVE: Crying Nazi Chris Cantwell is just "a goddamn human being," he tells @thedailybeast from jail. https://t.co/UGweIiyEup pic.twitter.com/JCaPrWtVWb— Katie Zavadski (@katiezavadski) August 30, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
How to help your case!
Cantwell declines to tone down his rhetoric, claiming that Gorcenski isn't qualified to testify in court because she's a "fucking tranny" and blames "kikes" for for orchestrating the counter-protesters."All of these people [statue removers] are taking their talking points from Jews," he said.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 20:52 (six years ago) link
Holy shit, best part:
In a break from conversation, Cantwell was overheard telling a jail staffer that he's not responsible for the deluge of correspondence he's begun receiving which include something by Ian Fleming and a book on Adolf Hitler."I'm a public figure," he yelled. "People just send me shit through the mail."
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 30 August 2017 20:53 (six years ago) link
same
― frankfurters take on new glamour in this gleaming aspic (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 30 August 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
Ahahahaha. PewTube, a "censorship-free alternative to YouTube", removed its 5 most watched video, because they were communist. Ironic. pic.twitter.com/BJo0ou8kag— ticki (@ticki_) August 31, 2017
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
i learned from the NYT Mag that there's an alt-Patreon called Hatreon
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:39 (six years ago) link
the free market at work
― pizzarro gizzarda (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
does it steal money from people you hate?
― flappy bird, Friday, 1 September 2017 02:10 (six years ago) link
Truly a skilled individual at work here
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/cantwell-denied-bond-argues-that-he-s-a-shock-jock/article_fe984c46-8e72-11e7-9aa6-d34fb61df2fb.html
On cross-examination, Tracci asked Cantwell to clarify what kind of topics he spoke on in his capacity as a “shock jock.” Cantwell stated that his platform focused on “race relations” before eventually stating that he “do(es) a racist podcast.”This prompted Tracci to ask if Cantwell was in fact a white supremacist, but Higgins sustained Woodard’s objection of the question, calling it irrelevant to the hearing at hand.During further questioning, Cantwell said that if he was released, he would be able to stay in Virginia with someone he met during the rally but did not know very well.The need to view the video was negated when Tracci then asked Cantwell to verify comments he’d been seen making in the video, which included claims that white nationalist groups had “shown restraint,” that Heyer’s killing was “justified,” that “more people are going to die before we are done here,” and that he and his cohorts had “gassed up those k---- and t-------.” Cantwell admitted to each comment, with slight revisions on some.Asked whether he meant those comments, Cantwell again chalked them up to his “radio personality,” saying that his radio program was intentionally shocking and that “the purpose is to make money.”
This prompted Tracci to ask if Cantwell was in fact a white supremacist, but Higgins sustained Woodard’s objection of the question, calling it irrelevant to the hearing at hand.
During further questioning, Cantwell said that if he was released, he would be able to stay in Virginia with someone he met during the rally but did not know very well.
The need to view the video was negated when Tracci then asked Cantwell to verify comments he’d been seen making in the video, which included claims that white nationalist groups had “shown restraint,” that Heyer’s killing was “justified,” that “more people are going to die before we are done here,” and that he and his cohorts had “gassed up those k---- and t-------.” Cantwell admitted to each comment, with slight revisions on some.
Asked whether he meant those comments, Cantwell again chalked them up to his “radio personality,” saying that his radio program was intentionally shocking and that “the purpose is to make money.”
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 1 September 2017 13:15 (six years ago) link
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/dailyprogress.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/d7/2d76961a-88d5-11e7-9565-af65c110b221/599edd6ab702f.image.jpg
Popeye let himself go
― I am a paying customer, who is very cordial and pleasant to talk to (stevie), Friday, 1 September 2017 16:47 (six years ago) link
That is a very Irish head
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Friday, 1 September 2017 16:51 (six years ago) link
http://thatyellowbastard.weebly.com/uploads/2/0/8/5/20852596/2285279.jpg?239
― pizzarro gizzarda (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 1 September 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link
Cantwell's attorney is a treat:https://m.facebook.com/elmer.woodard.1
― how's life, Friday, 1 September 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
"See All Photos" is kinda a must.
― how's life, Friday, 1 September 2017 17:08 (six years ago) link
racist will forte
― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 1 September 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
You missed a "triumph of the" joke there m8
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Friday, 1 September 2017 18:45 (six years ago) link
coulda been somebody
― you are juror number 144 and we will excuse you (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 1 September 2017 19:03 (six years ago) link
http://www.thedailybeast.com/crying-nazi-christopher-cantwells-lawyer-says-hes-just-kidding-about-killing-jews
― how's life, Saturday, 2 September 2017 01:33 (six years ago) link
That article is something else.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 2 September 2017 02:47 (six years ago) link
His lawyer tried to dismiss a video of his client speaking to a reporter on the grounds that it was "hearsay"!
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 2 September 2017 02:49 (six years ago) link
Holy shit
Cantwell's attorney is Elmer Woodard, who appeared in court wearing an early-1800s-style red waistcoat with gold buttons, bowtie, white muttonchop whiskers, black velcro shoes, and a a 1910s-style straw boater hat. Cantwell said Woodard was his fourth choice for legal counsel after three other lawyers declined to take his case. (Woodard previously attempted to defend a client accused of sexual assault by a 15-year-old girl by claiming that the man’s sleepwalking caused him to rape her.)
― louie mensch (milo z), Saturday, 2 September 2017 03:08 (six years ago) link
Can a judge dismiss a defendant's counsel on their own initiative?
― .oO (silby), Saturday, 2 September 2017 03:10 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIqQ9iAXcAEksnH.jpg
supposedly him
― louie mensch (milo z), Saturday, 2 September 2017 03:10 (six years ago) link
it takes all kinds
― flappy bird, Saturday, 2 September 2017 05:04 (six years ago) link
Man, hiring a lawyer who looks like that is some god tier trolling.
― Wichita prepares for totality (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 2 September 2017 09:06 (six years ago) link
*self trolling
― kurt schwitterz, Saturday, 2 September 2017 12:03 (six years ago) link
Hearkening back to a time when a white man was a man ... and everyone else was property.
― bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 2 September 2017 13:24 (six years ago) link
I saw someone in an Infowars t-shirt on the bus in Keighley today. It was some time after the EDL march and it was a local bus so i think unconnected but who knows!
― anvil, Saturday, 2 September 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link
On the back it said 'Deport George Soros'
― anvil, Saturday, 2 September 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
Joke's on you, can deport a globalist lizzard, he is a citizen of everywhere.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 2 September 2017 22:42 (six years ago) link
Insert a '12ft' somewhere in there.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 2 September 2017 22:43 (six years ago) link
I went to a Cock Sparrer gig tonight and fully expected some kind of right wing presence but am glad to report it didn't happen. I saw one cunt with an England love it or leave it tshirt but that was it. Mind you I left before the encore England Belongs To Me singalong. This was in Brighton mind which is perhaps not a hotbed of racist skinheads these days
― Colonel Poo, Saturday, 2 September 2017 22:46 (six years ago) link
https://arcdigital.media/how-russian-alt-right-twitter-accounts-worked-together-to-skew-the-narrative-about-berkeley-f03a3d04ac5d
I've been using youtube a lot to find sources for the protests of the last eight months, and if the youtube recommendations I've been getting since then are any indication, the alt-right is winning the information war on the narrative for these 'Free Speech' protests. anyone doing their own research (as they say) are getting a barrage of recruitment videos
type 'charlottesville hoax' into youtube if you dare. each individual one is ridiculous, but that's not the point; there are dozens of them, they go on for hours. if you wanted to believe, you would quickly be surrounded.
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 2 September 2017 23:03 (six years ago) link
Whoa, Cock Sparrer exists again?!
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Sunday, 3 September 2017 09:12 (six years ago) link
He's obviously been drifting this way for a while, but I'm honestly surprised that Assange has gone full culture war:
https://www.twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/904006478616551425
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 September 2017 08:48 (six years ago) link
He's a full-on cretin, for sure. Is he aware of the fact that May and Merkel are both the daughters of clergymen?
― Wewlay Bewlay (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 September 2017 09:28 (six years ago) link
I'm only surprised in that you'd think he'd be savvier but it fits his worldview perfectly and makes a lot of sense about his political commitments.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:30 (six years ago) link
having clergy for parents can make you a hyper atheist cf nietzsche
― ogmor, Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:44 (six years ago) link
further clues in merkel's well publicised anti gay marriage stance.
― angelo irishagreementi (ledge), Tuesday, 5 September 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
noted sex abuser julian assange and his perspective on the breakdown of the traditional family
― j., Tuesday, 5 September 2017 14:12 (six years ago) link
I N FR A ST R UC T UR E !
― Wichita prepares for totality (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Wednesday, 6 September 2017 04:27 (six years ago) link
oops wrong thread!
this is a thing nowhttp://www.wweek.com/news/2017/09/10/police-in-vancouver-arrest-man-for-nearly-running-down-antifa-protesters-with-his-truck/
― Οὖτις, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
(a surprise to no one, I'm sure)
I was the Portland March yesterday. A cop tossed a flash bang grenade at a masked photographer:
Cop set off flash-bang grenade like 4 feet from me. pic.twitter.com/AY04u1637c— doug brown (@dougbrown8) September 10, 2017
My vid of chaos downtown. arrest @ :12. pepper spraying throughout. Water bottle hitting cop @ 1:22. Grenade at 1:57 https://t.co/lM0ygxo9QU— doug brown (@dougbrown8) September 11, 2017
https://vimeo.com/233243453
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Monday, 11 September 2017 17:15 (six years ago) link
Sorta surprised that Vancouver incident isn't getting more press, but at the same time everything is just clogged with hurricane news.
― flappy bird, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
After the man was handcuffed, a group called the "Proud Boys" drove down Columbia Avenue and sprayed pepper spray out their windows at protesters in the street. The counter-protesters lobbed rocks at their truck.
Police stopped the Proud Boys, but did not detain them. Fifteen minutes later they drove away.
But they didn't get far: Reporters nearby say the Proud Boys crashed into a police vehicle.
― nomar, Monday, 11 September 2017 17:28 (six years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/11/washington-vancouver-portland-rally-protest
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Monday, 11 September 2017 17:41 (six years ago) link
would never have guessed that getting pepper-sprayed by persons unknown is the gateway to getting #woke but here we are
I used to think nazi lingo was funny. I didn't realize people took it so seriously- for that I want to say sorry to @LauraLoomer & my fans. https://t.co/12SBbaFI4T— Baked Alaska™ (@bakedalaska) September 11, 2017
― here's how **takes sip of duck urine** economics works (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 10:57 (six years ago) link
Took a minute before I realized there's a Vancouver, WA.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 11:35 (six years ago) link
AKA alt-vancouver.
― bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 11:46 (six years ago) link
swish
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 15:08 (six years ago) link
Apparently the portland NPR station is having the rightwing shithead organizer on today's noontime call-in show, that's gunna go well
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 18:15 (six years ago) link
who is it, Joey Gibson?
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
Yup
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
dude is a publicity hound of the worst kind, they should stop encouraging him
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:11 (six years ago) link
he's like a profoundly unintelligent man that can barely make out a sentence. it's more than bizarre that he ended up being such a mouthpiece for a movement.
― Shart Dressed Man (kurt schwitterz), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:13 (six years ago) link
he's an archetypal "useful idiot" for nazis
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:17 (six years ago) link
Bannon himself is joining the alt right provocation parade at the end of the month at Berkeley with his gay son Milo
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
so ridiculous how they keep going back to Berkeley. if they just keep trying again and again maybe one day they will get their "race war"!
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:42 (six years ago) link
so his house will be empty?
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
wonder if bannon thinks hes better off personally agitating the black bloc at cal instead of working in the fucking white house
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link
did you see his 60 Minutes interview? he keeps using the words "fight" and "agenda"
― Shart Dressed Man (kurt schwitterz), Tuesday, 12 September 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
I watched half of it last night, main takeaway is his voice is hilarious & he almost has a Baltimore accent. "You know, uh duh sussessfull peopoll, uh, dare duh swamp. Dare duh swamp."
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 September 2017 21:13 (six years ago) link
can't stop staring at his gills pulsing as he seethes while Charlie Rose tells him Trump should have denounced white supremacists
― crüt, Wednesday, 13 September 2017 01:17 (six years ago) link
Here's the portland talk show bit with the shitlord:
http://www.opb.org/radio/programs/thinkoutloud/segment/talking-business-gang-designations-joey-gibson-patriot-prayer/
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Wednesday, 13 September 2017 17:09 (six years ago) link
How's everyone feel about the apparent creeping of militia types from anti-government "extremists" to guys who hang out with cops at their special events and occasionally get to help out (oh boy!) with arrests?
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/SevenDays/archives/2017/09/15/right-wing-extremist-group-had-booth-at-urban-shield-to-explain-who-they-are
― Wichita prepares for totality (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Saturday, 16 September 2017 05:35 (six years ago) link
ah, my favorite song pic.twitter.com/edNOudRsKO— CITIZEN KRANG (@KrangTNelson) September 18, 2017
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 18 September 2017 15:32 (six years ago) link
The moment of truth:
thank you antifa 💪🏿 pic.twitter.com/iaEIGneOkC— jewels ☭ (@BlackBlocBoi) September 18, 2017
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 18 September 2017 16:18 (six years ago) link
thank you for sharing i literally just went around my office and showed it to everyone. nothing brings ppl together like gifs of nazis getting punched in the face.
― Mordy, Monday, 18 September 2017 16:22 (six years ago) link
http://www.mahonkin.com/~milktree/giffs/eating-popcorn/MIKE-TYSON-POPCORN.gif
― nomar, Monday, 18 September 2017 16:28 (six years ago) link
that come at me bro / no no we're cool transition is animation-perfect
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 18 September 2017 16:29 (six years ago) link
so was nazi dude just going around looking for a fight?
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 18 September 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link
see, you don't have to own an iPhone X to "pay with your face"
― frogbs, Monday, 18 September 2017 17:43 (six years ago) link
It was a hectic day today but every time I felt overwhelmed I just watched that clip a few times and everything felt better.
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 01:42 (six years ago) link
this looks good https://alternativeright.hopenothate.com/my-year-inside-the-international-alt-right
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:10 (six years ago) link
can we not use a gif (ugh gifs) of a spousal abuser to celebrate the beatdown of someone who quite obviously *does* deserve to get punched? ty
― maura, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:25 (six years ago) link
yeah I did think
― imago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:26 (six years ago) link
it's really good xxp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 19:26 (six years ago) link
have seen some tweets that the principal guy has some of his own problems (transphobia first among them) :/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
https://imgur.com/rt7nIZ5.jpg
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
Argh I think said tweets may have been referring to Jesse Singal who wrote about Hermansson in the NYT
Keeping track of who to be skeptical of is such a chore
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 20:13 (six years ago) link
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/19/opinion/alt-right-white-supremacy-undercover.html?referer=https://t.co/KJeFglUnW6?amp=1
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 20:13 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Left world problems
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 20:16 (six years ago) link
Gotta love shitshows
https://www.mediaite.com/online/milos-berkeley-free-speech-week-has-completely-fallen-apart-and-he-refuses-to-admit-it/
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 22 September 2017 13:08 (six years ago) link
"Wintrich told Mediaite that Yiannopoulos knew as early as last week that the event was falling apart, but misled the media, UC-Berkeley and his fans — many of whom bought flights and accommodation for the week — by claiming it was still on."awww the poor things
― Doctor Casino, Friday, 22 September 2017 13:16 (six years ago) link
if you can't trust a professional faux Nazi troll who can you trust?
― be the cringe you want to see in the world (Noodle Vague), Friday, 22 September 2017 13:25 (six years ago) link
A "faux Nazi" is just a Nazi
― .oO (silby), Friday, 22 September 2017 14:29 (six years ago) link
he doesn't have the conviction to be a full-on Nazi, he's an opportunist shyster. that doesn't make him better than a Nazi, but still
― be the cringe you want to see in the world (Noodle Vague), Friday, 22 September 2017 14:42 (six years ago) link
c'mon guys milo's house was just destroyed by a hurricane, can't we stop picking on him for *srnkkk* naw i can't keep a straight face, sorry
― Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 September 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
c'mon guys milo's house was just destroyed by a hurricane
I thought that turned out to be bullshit too.
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 22 September 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
I don't want to think about Milo enough to be disappointed about terrible things *not* happening to him.
― nomar, Friday, 22 September 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
lol clowns
http://www.npr.org/2017/09/22/552427627/why-a-potential-free-speech-week-at-berkeley-is-causing-a-stir?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20170922
― Οὖτις, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:47 (six years ago) link
http://www.dailycal.org/2017/09/22/right-wing-student-groups-invite-bigoted-trolls-invade-campus-guise-free-speech/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 22 September 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
i love that 'free speech week' was going to be four days long
― Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 September 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
stand up for the freedom to say that a week is however fucking long i say it is, motherfucker
― Mr. Eulon Mask, urging the UN to ban the "homicide robot" (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 September 2017 20:34 (six years ago) link
i listened to this TAL episode on saturday and idk if it was the content or the extreme heat but i barfed shortly after i heard ithttps://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/626/white-haze
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 25 September 2017 22:31 (six years ago) link
Who could have guessed?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/business/reddit-limits-noxious-content-by-giving-trolls-fewer-places-to-gather.html
A chunk:
A new study by researchers at Emory University, Georgia Institute of Technology and the University of Michigan suggests that the most effective anti-hate tactic may be what amounts to a nuclear option: identifying and shutting down the spaces where hateful speech occurs, rather than targeting bad actors individually or in groups.The researchers analyzed 100 million posts originating on two forums on Reddit, the hugely popular online message board. The forums, r/fatpeoplehate and r/CoonTown, were among several that Reddit administrators banned in 2015 as part of a sitewide crackdown on poisonous behavior. (In case the names weren’t a tipoff, fatpeoplehate was devoted to photos that mocked overweight people, and CoonTown was filled with racist bile.)Researchers generated a list of hateful terms used on the two forums, and tracked the use of those terms across Reddit. They also compared the activity of users who posted hateful terms before the bans with those users’ activity after, to determine whether they had infiltrated other Reddit forums.The goal was to figure out what happened when these toxic communities were shut down. Did the amount of hateful language on Reddit decrease? Did users of hateful forums migrate to other parts of the site? Did any of them change their behavior as a result of the bans?The study found that, to a large extent, the bans worked. Some users who had posted offensive material on the forums that were shut down stopped using Reddit entirely. Of those who continued to use the site, many migrated to other forums, but they did not bring significant amounts of toxic speech with them, and the forums they moved to did not become more hateful as a result of their presence. Over all, the users who stayed on Reddit after the bans took effect decreased their use of hate speech by more than 80 percent.
The researchers analyzed 100 million posts originating on two forums on Reddit, the hugely popular online message board. The forums, r/fatpeoplehate and r/CoonTown, were among several that Reddit administrators banned in 2015 as part of a sitewide crackdown on poisonous behavior. (In case the names weren’t a tipoff, fatpeoplehate was devoted to photos that mocked overweight people, and CoonTown was filled with racist bile.)
Researchers generated a list of hateful terms used on the two forums, and tracked the use of those terms across Reddit. They also compared the activity of users who posted hateful terms before the bans with those users’ activity after, to determine whether they had infiltrated other Reddit forums.
The goal was to figure out what happened when these toxic communities were shut down. Did the amount of hateful language on Reddit decrease? Did users of hateful forums migrate to other parts of the site? Did any of them change their behavior as a result of the bans?
The study found that, to a large extent, the bans worked. Some users who had posted offensive material on the forums that were shut down stopped using Reddit entirely. Of those who continued to use the site, many migrated to other forums, but they did not bring significant amounts of toxic speech with them, and the forums they moved to did not become more hateful as a result of their presence. Over all, the users who stayed on Reddit after the bans took effect decreased their use of hate speech by more than 80 percent.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 25 September 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
pretty rad to see my tax money at work studying reddit bans
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 25 September 2017 23:57 (six years ago) link
so you don't think that studying how to curb hate speech is useful, great thread for that opinion
― sleeve, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:03 (six years ago) link
AdBru seems to be having a crappy few days
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 00:25 (six years ago) link
it's good all the rest of your tax money is being used really well then
― I Love You, Fancybear (symsymsym), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 02:22 (six years ago) link
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:57 AM (fifteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is a shitty post fyi
― Dr Keith Assblow (stevie), Tuesday, 26 September 2017 15:52 (six years ago) link
guys Bruneau is like Pennywise, he feeds on these criticisms
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
its not that bad of a post
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:02 (six years ago) link
it's part of a series nobody subscribed to but nonetheless had delivered
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 26 September 2017 20:04 (six years ago) link
k i'll bite. so what's the real world implementation of this?
reddit is, like, society, man.
bans are removal from society. we already have that in place, jails.
mods enact the bans, they have the power to ban users. so in the real world they would be cops and/or judges.
control + f doesn't work in the real world but we have something called profiling. i guess the idea is to grant the police the legal right to seek out speech they deem threatening. tbf they already do this with what's in place now.
so let's look at this solution. we are going to fight hate speech by empowering an already racist and abusive justice system with the legal right to lock people away for saying things it declares hate speech.
combine this with our wonderful Patriot Act anti-terror ways and the current administration and this would be like giving a loaded gun to a toddler.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 27 September 2017 00:02 (six years ago) link
a bar. a bar is a play where people are free to gather and talk. if a group in the corner starts chanting nazi slogans, they hopefully get banned from the bar.
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 00:44 (six years ago) link
life is a play, too. we just haven't been told our lines yet.
*takes the deepest toke*
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 00:45 (six years ago) link
All the world's a stageand all the men and women merely nazis
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 00:53 (six years ago) link
fuckin cropdust this thread
― Neanderthal, Wednesday, 27 September 2017 05:37 (six years ago) link
this is good h/t to chaki
https://youtu.be/Sx4BVGPkdzk
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 4 October 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
Yeah, Contra’s stuff is fun.
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:27 (six years ago) link
Quite a day!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart-and-milo-smuggled-white-nationalism?utm_term=.vp3pxOLLB#.dxmOZjBB6
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
He added that during his karaoke performance, his "severe myopia" made it impossible for him to see the Hitler salutes a few feet away.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
All kinds of fun!
In addition to tech and entertainment, Yiannopoulos had hidden helpers in the liberal media against which he and Bannon fought so uncompromisingly. A long-running email group devoted to mocking stories about the social justice internet included, predictably, Yiannopoulos’s friend Ann Coulter, but also Mitchell Sunderland, a senior staff writer at Broadly, Vice’s women’s channel. According to its “About” page, Broadly “is devoted to representing the multiplicity of women's experiences. … we provide a sustained focus on the issues that matter most to women.”“Please mock this fat feminist,” Sunderland wrote to Yiannopoulos in May 2016, along with a link to an article by the New York Times columnist Lindy West, who frequently writes about fat acceptance. And while Sunderland was Broadly’s managing editor, he sent a Broadly video about the Satanic Temple and abortion rights to Tim Gionet with instructions to “do whatever with this on Breitbart. It’s insane.” The next day, Breitbart published an article titled “‘Satanic Temple’ Joins Planned Parenthood in Pro-Abortion Crusade.”In a statement to BuzzFeed News, a Vice spokesperson wrote, "We are shocked and disappointed by this highly inappropriate and unprofessional conduct. We just learned about this and have begun a formal review into the matter."
“Please mock this fat feminist,” Sunderland wrote to Yiannopoulos in May 2016, along with a link to an article by the New York Times columnist Lindy West, who frequently writes about fat acceptance. And while Sunderland was Broadly’s managing editor, he sent a Broadly video about the Satanic Temple and abortion rights to Tim Gionet with instructions to “do whatever with this on Breitbart. It’s insane.” The next day, Breitbart published an article titled “‘Satanic Temple’ Joins Planned Parenthood in Pro-Abortion Crusade.”
In a statement to BuzzFeed News, a Vice spokesperson wrote, "We are shocked and disappointed by this highly inappropriate and unprofessional conduct. We just learned about this and have begun a formal review into the matter."
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:22 (six years ago) link
The previous November, Yiannopoulos emailed Bannon with a bone to pick. Breitbart London reported that a London college student behind a popular social justice hashtag had threatened the anti-Islam activist Pamela Geller.“The story is horseshit and we should never have published it,” Yiannopoulos wrote. “Reckless and stupid. … Strongly recommend we pull. it’s insanely defamatory. I spoke to pamela geller and even she said it was rubbish. We’re outright lying about this girl and surely we’re better than that. We can and should win by telling the truth.”Six minutes later, Bannon wrote back to his tech editor in a fury. “Your (sic) full of shit. When I need your advice on anything I will ask. ... The tech site is a total clusterfuck---meaningless stories written by juveniles. You don’t have a clue how to build a company or what real content is. And you don’t have long to figure it out or your (sic) gone. … You are magenalia (sic).”
“The story is horseshit and we should never have published it,” Yiannopoulos wrote. “Reckless and stupid. … Strongly recommend we pull. it’s insanely defamatory. I spoke to pamela geller and even she said it was rubbish. We’re outright lying about this girl and surely we’re better than that. We can and should win by telling the truth.”
Six minutes later, Bannon wrote back to his tech editor in a fury. “Your (sic) full of shit. When I need your advice on anything I will ask. ... The tech site is a total clusterfuck---meaningless stories written by juveniles. You don’t have a clue how to build a company or what real content is. And you don’t have long to figure it out or your (sic) gone. … You are magenalia (sic).”
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
How did buzzfeed get those docs? Like emails I get but how did they get Milo's texts to Rebekah Mercer? Milo himself?
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:28 (six years ago) link
need a shower after reading that
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
there's so much information in that article it's difficult to process - what could the possible repercussions be of this information leaking?
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
I doubt there will be any, it's too labyrinthine, too inside baseball
one more reason to hate Vice, I suppose (not that I needed any more)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
bummer :/
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
the outing of some of the breitbart fellow travelers is interesting and sad
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:05 (six years ago) link
are the actual emails linked anywhere?
― Mordy, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:08 (six years ago) link
a lot of people in my office right now confused and pissed about their journo friends being outed it seems
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:08 (six years ago) link
if these leads to fewer people working with/cooperating with Breitbart that's great
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:12 (six years ago) link
Oh joy!
Favorite detail from this incredibly comprehensive story: that Fake Steve Jobs dipshit was pen pals with Milo https://t.co/c02YGZXJp6 pic.twitter.com/Um6M9AEpmI— Patrick Monahan (@pattymo) October 5, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
Lyons deleted his twitter today
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:50 (six years ago) link
It's a start.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:55 (six years ago) link
Baked Alaska Public Humiliation Fetish Compilation Volume Onehttps://t.co/yPGqyaJ6Uc #MilkLeaks pic.twitter.com/XC6DclrXon— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) October 5, 2017
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
Maybe I'm being naive but those emails really don't sound like David Auerbach to me. I only follow him on Facebook but it seems so out of character for him!
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:55 (six years ago) link
you're being naïve
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:55 (six years ago) link
he's also tacitly admitted it on twitter
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:57 (six years ago) link
he's disputing it afaict
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:57 (six years ago) link
Doesn't the story say he says 'that wasn't me' after being emailed at the address in the emails?
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:59 (six years ago) link
major bummer if true
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Friday, 6 October 2017 00:05 (six years ago) link
everyone is bad, you shouldn't actually like anything
― global tetrahedron, Friday, 6 October 2017 00:07 (six years ago) link
wow @ moldbug watching the election at thiel's house
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 6 October 2017 00:26 (six years ago) link
Not surprised but still hilarious that Bannon misuses "your" in those emails. Also lmao @ "You are magenalia."
― flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 01:26 (six years ago) link
magenalia = d&d supplement title
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 6 October 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
yeah it's a lars von trier/pta collab
― flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
The Land of Magenalia
― flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 01:58 (six years ago) link
Stealing that one, sorry Babo
No you didn't. https://t.co/xi7XYwTqMg— 💀zombië queen💀 (@UnburntWitch) October 6, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 6 October 2017 02:06 (six years ago) link
who would have thought that an industry based on building personality cults would be rife with sociopaths. i'm just glad i have a new reason to give my mom when she asks why i just don't get a job in media—"you raised me too well and i'm not a sociopath"
― maura, Friday, 6 October 2017 08:46 (six years ago) link
Huh, turns out the leftist feminists were correct all along.
Again.
Still, I'm sure lessons will be learned.
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 6 October 2017 08:57 (six years ago) link
the Baked Alaska dude is a pretty amusing sidelight to this story, this "alpha male" constantly posting videos of himself getting brutally owned over and over again feels like some kind of performance art
― frogbs, Friday, 6 October 2017 12:47 (six years ago) link
A friend of mine knew him in high school and was not surprised at his general life arc.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 13:16 (six years ago) link
was it widely known before this article that milo's stuff is often ghostwritten? don't think i'd heard that before
imagine being so dumb and/or lazy that you don't even write your own shitty copy
― ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 6 October 2017 14:15 (six years ago) link
less than two hours. dude pioneered an entirely new non-canon way of being mad online pic.twitter.com/LuWFzt4Wdn— chris hooks (@cd_hooks) October 6, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 14:21 (six years ago) link
It's so awful in a boring way that anyone coudl have written it, including Milo if he wasn't a lazy coked-up monster.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 October 2017 14:25 (six years ago) link
xp man yall are vultures
― j., Friday, 6 October 2017 14:33 (six years ago) link
there was a piece sometime last year about his 44 interns
― maura, Friday, 6 October 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
halfway to 88
― ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 6 October 2017 14:48 (six years ago) link
In an April 6 email, Allum Bokhari mentioned having had access to an account of Yiannopoulos’s with “a password that began with the word Kristall.” Kristallnacht, an infamous 1938 riot against German Jews carried out by the SA — the paramilitary organization that helped Hitler rise to power — is sometimes considered the beginning of the Holocaust. In a June 2016 email to an assistant, Yiannopoulos shared the password to his email, which began “LongKnives1290.” The Night of the Long Knives was the Nazi purge of the leadership of the SA. The purge famously included Ernst Röhm, the SA’s gay leader. 1290 is the year King Edward I expelled the Jews from England.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 October 2017 14:50 (six years ago) link
lol, he just had to share his edgy private passwords
― jmm, Friday, 6 October 2017 14:53 (six years ago) link
those passwords don't look v secure imo, milo is bad at online security
― ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 6 October 2017 15:01 (six years ago) link
password creation tips: make your password your deepest, darkest secret. this will ensure that nobody will ever be able to guess it.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Friday, 6 October 2017 15:12 (six years ago) link
iluvgooodhair6969
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 October 2017 15:15 (six years ago) link
Lots of gamers getting pissed that the marketing for the new Wolfenstein game is blatantly anti-Nazi.
― ian, Friday, 6 October 2017 15:17 (six years ago) link
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/10/05/wolfenstein-2-teaser-angers-alt-right-twitter-make-america-nazi-free-slogan/
― ian, Friday, 6 October 2017 15:18 (six years ago) link
yeah, we're talking about that a bit over on the videogame racism/sexism thread
― ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 6 October 2017 15:20 (six years ago) link
milo is bad at everything except getting attention. remember his first foray into media world fame?
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/mar/01/the-kernel
― maura, Friday, 6 October 2017 15:32 (six years ago) link
I see one of the intellectual godfathers of this whole mess is finding an elusive next level
Hitler was NOT anti-gay. He refused to purge gay Brownshirts from Nazi ranks saying he had no problem as long as they were good fighters— Dinesh D'Souza (@DineshDSouza) October 6, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
how dare you smear the name of Adolph Hitler
― frogbs, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
i could have posted this to any number of current threads right now but might as well stick it here. what's really creepy about the alt-right, about the revelations in recent days, about the movement in general, is the self-satisfied gleefulness of the hatred and the manner in which these people thrive on making others feel subhuman, which by itself has always been around but now people are more willing to put their names and faces out there and not hide behind online personas as much. the alt-right figureheads are throwing chum into the water and seeing who flocks to them and organizing from there.
― nomar, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:34 (six years ago) link
― frogbs
and about the lying fake news claiming he "only has one ball"...
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Friday, 6 October 2017 18:45 (six years ago) link
Fucking weird tweet. I can't tell if Dinesh is just randomly praising Hitler or if that's part of his current campaign to associate the left with fascism, i.e. being not anti-gay is a left-wing thing and Hitler wasn't anti-gay, therefore Hitler was left-wing.
― jmm, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:49 (six years ago) link
(obviously Hitler was in fact anti-gay)
― jmm, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
When it suited him.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
i mean really:
The beginning of the Nazi terror against homosexuals was marked by the murder of Ernst Rohm on June 30, 1934: "the Night of the Long Knives. "Rohm was the man who, in 1919, first made Hitler aware of his own political potential, and the two were close friends for fifteen years. During that time, Rohm rose to SA Chief of Staff, transforming the Brownshirt militia from a handful of hardened goons and embittered ex-soldiers into an effective fighting force five hundred thousand strong the instrument of Nazi terror. Hitler needed Rohm's military skill and could rely on his personal loyalty, but he was ultimately a pragmatist. As part of a compromise with the Reichwehr (regular army) leadership, whose support he needed to become Fuhrer, Hitler allowed Goering and Himmler to murder Rohm along with dozens of Rohm's loyal officers.For public relations purposes, and especially to quell the outrage felt throughout the ranks of the SA, Hitler justified his blatant power play by pointing to Rohm's homosexuality. Hitler, of course, had known of Rohm's homosexuality since 1919, and it became public knowledge in 1925, when Rohm appeared in court to charge a hustler with theft. All this while the Nazi Party had a virulently antigay policy, and many Nazis protested that Rohm was discrediting the entire Party and should be purged. Hitler, however, was quite willing to cover up for him for years until he stood in the way of larger plans.* * *The Nazi Party came to power in 1933, and a year later Rohm was dead. While Rohm and his men were being rounded up for the massacre (offered a gun and the opportunity to shoot himself, Rohm retorted angrily: “Let Hitler do his own dirty work”), the new Chief of Staff received his first order from the Fuhrer: “I expect all SA leaders to help preserve and strengthen the SA in its capacity as a pure and cleanly institution. In particular, I should like every mother to be able to allow her son to join the SA, Party, and Hitler Youth without fear that he may become morally corrupted in their ranks. I therefore request all SA commanders to take the utmost pains to ensure that offences under Paragraph 175 are met by immediate expulsion of the culprit from the SA and the Party.”Hitler had good reason to be concerned about the reputation of Nazi organizations, most of which were based on strict segregation of the sexes. Hitler Youth, for example, was disparagingly referred to as Homo Youth throughout the Third Reich, a characterization which the Nazi leadership vainly struggled to eliminate. Indeed, most of the handful of publications on homosexuality which appeared during the Fascist regime were devoted to new and rather bizarre methods of “detection” and “prevention.”Rudolf Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler’s personal thoughts on the subject: “He lectured me on the role of homosexuality in history and politics. It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, eliminating from the reproductive process precisely those men on whose offspring a nation depended. The immediate result of the vice was, however, that unnatural passion swiftly became dominant in public affairs if it were allowed to spread unchecked.”* * *The tone had been set by the Rohm putsch, and on its first anniversary-June 28, 1935, the campaign against homosexuality was escalated by the introduction of the “Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour.” Until 1935, the only punishable offence had been anal intercourse; under the new Paragraph 175a, ten possible “acts” were punishable, including a kiss, an embrace, even homosexual fantasies! One man, for instance, was successfully prosecuted on the grounds that he had observed a couple making love in a park and watched only the man.Under the Nazi system, criminal acts were less important in determining guilt than criminal intent. The “phenomenological” theory of justice claimed to evaluate a person's character rather than his deeds. The “healthy sensibility of the people” (gesundes Volksempfinden) was elevated to the highest normative legal concept, and the Nazis were in a position to prosecute an individual solely on the grounds of his sexual orientation. (After World War II, incidentally, this law was immediately struck from the books in East Germany as a product of Fascist thinking, while it remained on the books in West Germany.)Once Paragraph 175a was in effect, the annual number of convictions on charges of homosexuality leaped to about ten times the number in the pre-Nazi period. The law was so loosely formulated that it could be and was applied against heterosexuals whom the Nazis wanted to eliminate. The most notorious example of an individual convicted on trumped-up charges was General Werner von Fritsch, Army Chief of Staff; and the law was also used repeatedly against members of the Catholic clergy. But the law was undoubtedly used primarily against gay people, and the court system was aided in the witch-hunt by the entire German populace, which was encouraged to scrutinize the behaviour of neighbours and to denounce suspects to the Gestapo. The number of men convicted of homosexuality during the Nazi period totaled around fifty thousand:1933 — 8531934 — 9481935 — 2,1061936 — 5,3201937 — 8,2711938 — 8,5621939 — 7,6141940 — 3,7731941 — 3,7351942 — 3,9631943 (first quarter) — 9661944-45 — ?The Gestapo was the agent of the next escalation of the campaign against homosexuality. Ex-chicken farmer Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS and head of the Gestapo, richly deserves a reputation as the most fanatically homophobic member of the Nazi leadership. In 1936, he gave a speech on the subject of homosexuality and described the murder of Ernst Rohm (which he had engineered) in these terms: “Two years ago...when it became necessary, we did not scruple to strike this plague with death, even within our own ranks.” Himmler closed with these words: “Just as we today have gone back to the ancient Germanic view on the question of marriage mixing different races, so too in our judgment of homosexuality a symptom of degeneracy which could destroy our race we must return to the guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates.”
For public relations purposes, and especially to quell the outrage felt throughout the ranks of the SA, Hitler justified his blatant power play by pointing to Rohm's homosexuality. Hitler, of course, had known of Rohm's homosexuality since 1919, and it became public knowledge in 1925, when Rohm appeared in court to charge a hustler with theft. All this while the Nazi Party had a virulently antigay policy, and many Nazis protested that Rohm was discrediting the entire Party and should be purged. Hitler, however, was quite willing to cover up for him for years until he stood in the way of larger plans.
* * *
The Nazi Party came to power in 1933, and a year later Rohm was dead. While Rohm and his men were being rounded up for the massacre (offered a gun and the opportunity to shoot himself, Rohm retorted angrily: “Let Hitler do his own dirty work”), the new Chief of Staff received his first order from the Fuhrer: “I expect all SA leaders to help preserve and strengthen the SA in its capacity as a pure and cleanly institution. In particular, I should like every mother to be able to allow her son to join the SA, Party, and Hitler Youth without fear that he may become morally corrupted in their ranks. I therefore request all SA commanders to take the utmost pains to ensure that offences under Paragraph 175 are met by immediate expulsion of the culprit from the SA and the Party.”
Hitler had good reason to be concerned about the reputation of Nazi organizations, most of which were based on strict segregation of the sexes. Hitler Youth, for example, was disparagingly referred to as Homo Youth throughout the Third Reich, a characterization which the Nazi leadership vainly struggled to eliminate. Indeed, most of the handful of publications on homosexuality which appeared during the Fascist regime were devoted to new and rather bizarre methods of “detection” and “prevention.”
Rudolf Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler’s personal thoughts on the subject: “He lectured me on the role of homosexuality in history and politics. It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said. Once rife, it extended its contagious effects like an ineluctable law of nature to the best and most manly of characters, eliminating from the reproductive process precisely those men on whose offspring a nation depended. The immediate result of the vice was, however, that unnatural passion swiftly became dominant in public affairs if it were allowed to spread unchecked.”
The tone had been set by the Rohm putsch, and on its first anniversary-June 28, 1935, the campaign against homosexuality was escalated by the introduction of the “Law for the Protection of German Blood and German Honour.” Until 1935, the only punishable offence had been anal intercourse; under the new Paragraph 175a, ten possible “acts” were punishable, including a kiss, an embrace, even homosexual fantasies! One man, for instance, was successfully prosecuted on the grounds that he had observed a couple making love in a park and watched only the man.
Under the Nazi system, criminal acts were less important in determining guilt than criminal intent. The “phenomenological” theory of justice claimed to evaluate a person's character rather than his deeds. The “healthy sensibility of the people” (gesundes Volksempfinden) was elevated to the highest normative legal concept, and the Nazis were in a position to prosecute an individual solely on the grounds of his sexual orientation. (After World War II, incidentally, this law was immediately struck from the books in East Germany as a product of Fascist thinking, while it remained on the books in West Germany.)
Once Paragraph 175a was in effect, the annual number of convictions on charges of homosexuality leaped to about ten times the number in the pre-Nazi period. The law was so loosely formulated that it could be and was applied against heterosexuals whom the Nazis wanted to eliminate. The most notorious example of an individual convicted on trumped-up charges was General Werner von Fritsch, Army Chief of Staff; and the law was also used repeatedly against members of the Catholic clergy. But the law was undoubtedly used primarily against gay people, and the court system was aided in the witch-hunt by the entire German populace, which was encouraged to scrutinize the behaviour of neighbours and to denounce suspects to the Gestapo. The number of men convicted of homosexuality during the Nazi period totaled around fifty thousand:
1933 — 853
1934 — 948
1935 — 2,106
1936 — 5,320
1937 — 8,271
1938 — 8,562
1939 — 7,614
1940 — 3,773
1941 — 3,735
1942 — 3,963
1943 (first quarter) — 966
1944-45 — ?
The Gestapo was the agent of the next escalation of the campaign against homosexuality. Ex-chicken farmer Heinrich Himmler, Reichsfuhrer SS and head of the Gestapo, richly deserves a reputation as the most fanatically homophobic member of the Nazi leadership. In 1936, he gave a speech on the subject of homosexuality and described the murder of Ernst Rohm (which he had engineered) in these terms: “Two years ago...when it became necessary, we did not scruple to strike this plague with death, even within our own ranks.” Himmler closed with these words: “Just as we today have gone back to the ancient Germanic view on the question of marriage mixing different races, so too in our judgment of homosexuality a symptom of degeneracy which could destroy our race we must return to the guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates.”
― nomar, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
It begins.
VICE tells BuzzFeed company has fired @mitchsunderland after emails to MILO were made public in @Bernstein report https://t.co/qGd4a6Gkmw pic.twitter.com/fv7Cl1W8a8— Oliver Darcy (@oliverdarcy) October 6, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:12 (six years ago) link
Separately, nice little followup
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/interview-with-bartender-who-kicked-milo-yiannopoulos-out-of-karaoke-9948271
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:20 (six years ago) link
Rudolf Diels, the founder of the Gestapo, recorded some of Hitler’s personal thoughts on the subject: “He lectured me on the role of homosexuality in history and politics. It had destroyed ancient Greece, he said
Nixon agreed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMfVnBmpMm8
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 6 October 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
Only someone abysmally ignorant of ancient Greece would think such nonsense.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 6 October 2017 19:28 (six years ago) link
of course they wave money around and don't tip
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
Not that its needed but here is a nice response to Hitler was not anti gay nonsense:
Inaccurate. Whilst some homosexuals within S.A. ranks were briefly tolerated, the Night of Long Knives purge was justified on moral grounds https://t.co/Jp5L5rYTe0— Huw Lemmey (@huwlemmey) October 6, 2017
This was quite nice in terms of some of the language in the buzzfeed piece (and others too):
I want to encourage people to consider the work that the words "snuck into" + "smuggled" are doing in these two recent articles.— JessieNYC (@JessieNYC) October 6, 2017
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
lol Alfred first thing I thought of too
(fwiw just to be clear when I said "when it suited him" I was specifically referring to Hitler's overlooking Rohm's and the SA's homosexuality when it was in his interests)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
Hunh, I didn’t know Ernst Röhm was gay.
Also, if these fucks start doing that at your bar, how did the staff resist the temptation to either bottle them or go for the fire extinguishers?
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Friday, 6 October 2017 19:47 (six years ago) link
Rohm didn't make a secret of it
SA intimidation contributed to the rise of the Nazis and the violent suppression of right-wing parties during electoral campaigns, but its reputation for street violence and heavy drinking was a hindrance, as was the open homosexuality of Röhm and other SA leaders such as his deputy Edmund Heines. One American journalist later wrote, "[Röhm's] chiefs, men of the rank of Gruppenfuehrer or Obergruppenfuehrer, commanding units of several hundred thousand Storm Troopers, were almost without exception homosexuals."[6] In 1931, the Münchener Post, a Social Democratic newspaper, obtained and published Röhm's letters to a friend discussing his homosexual affairs.
Hitler was aware of Röhm's homosexuality. At this point they were so close that they addressed each other as du (the German familiar form of "you"). No other top Nazi leader enjoyed that privilege, and their close association led to rumors that Hitler himself was homosexual. Röhm was the only Nazi leader who dared to address Hitler by his first name "Adolf" or his nickname "Adi" rather than "mein Führer."
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
I'm still dying to know how buzzfeed got all their source material for that piece. its amazing.
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 6 October 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
i'm dying to read the full yarvin emails
― Mordy, Friday, 6 October 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
you have a sort of weird grudging respect for him iirc?
― imago, Friday, 6 October 2017 21:41 (six years ago) link
idk respect but i enjoy reading him he has unique perspectives. particularly i'm curious what he's been saying over the last couple years tho particularly re trump and rise of the alt-right. all his writing more or less came before the current zeitgeist.
― Mordy, Friday, 6 October 2017 21:42 (six years ago) link
Buzzfeed reporter on Chris Hayes' show.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 7 October 2017 00:04 (six years ago) link
I found Dan Lyons' apology that he sent today after I called him out for saying he'd apologized (he hadn't) and wowie zowie oofa doofa pic.twitter.com/cG7rONZQws— 💀zombië queen💀 (@UnburntWitch) October 7, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 7 October 2017 04:36 (six years ago) link
no longer sure how to respond to my friend's political beliefs. He says he does not support the alt-right, but he thinks they have a legitimate reason for being an advocacy group. Obviously I disagree with this and think it's laughable, but he's always trying to forge a middleground while clearly sticking to his conservative line beliefs. I don't think the middleground exists. By not denouncing their intentions he's kinda enabling them
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Sunday, 8 October 2017 16:28 (six years ago) link
maybe re-characterize alt-right as driven by hippie leftist "free thinking" canadians and see if that doesn't inspire some denouncing?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 8 October 2017 16:38 (six years ago) link
http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/10/07/19373764/patriot-prayer-group-planning-surprise-rally-sunday-during-portland-marathon
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Sunday, 8 October 2017 17:32 (six years ago) link
Q: Why do current fascists tend to accuse social justice movements of a "cultural marxism" that they draw back to the Frankfurt school? I'm not very educated on those guys, but from everything I've heard of Marcuse, Adorno, etc. it doesn't feel to me like they'd be the biggest standard bearer of current leftist concerns?
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 9 October 2017 14:56 (six years ago) link
because it is more trv kvlt that way
― los blue jeans, Monday, 9 October 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
Q: Why do current fascists tend to accuse social justice movements of a "cultural marxism" that they draw back to the Frankfurt school?
First off, it makes them feel educated and intellectual, even if they are only parroting talking points and have no clue what they are talking about the moment they stray from those talking points. Next, this argument impresses many of their listeners, who are almost certain not to know the first thing about the Frankfurt school and will marvel that the speaker knows so much about it. Lastly, it places the 'debate' on unfamiliar ground, so that the person armed with rote talking points adapted to that ground can 'win' more easily against a less-prepared opponent.
To these you can add the advantage that average American instinctively scorns European leftist intellectuals, just on account of widespread prejudice against foreigners, intellectuals and socialists.
iow, it works in their favor, even if it is arrant nonsense.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
arendt nonsense
― Mordy, Monday, 9 October 2017 18:03 (six years ago) link
(tips hat to Mordy)
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:05 (six years ago) link
hey im being doxxed by the proud boys
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 9 October 2017 18:16 (six years ago) link
badge of honor
― Οὖτις, Monday, 9 October 2017 18:17 (six years ago) link
On the appearance of Cultural Marxism in a WH doc from this summer, and how it connects to the John Birch Society and even John Wayne complaining about Marcuse from 1971
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:20 (six years ago) link
Also, like with many/the majority of Bircher conspiracies, the ethnic makeup of the Frankfurt School has something to do with it
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
the main flaw with the cultural marxism argument afaict is that derrida + foucault have been far more influential on critical theory imo than adorno or benjamin. the primary argument - that politics are downstream from culture and that the academy has exerted influence on the culture - has some relationship to reality. but the obsession w/ the frankfurt school feels like more of a consequence of wanting to link communism to the academy as its primary influence. there's some truth to the idea that major leftist ideologies (post-colonialism particularly) are closely related to communism but unless you're in the weeds on these things and can see how sometimes these connections were tenuous, or relationships of convenience, (or the USSR piggybacking on convenient ideologies), or can see that communism itself is a changing/malleable concept and not monolithic, it's too convenient to just be like - "oh communism did this" and these guys were the communists of the modern academy.
― Mordy, Monday, 9 October 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I just feel like all the supposed sins the alt right throws at what they call cultural marxism - basically boiling down to identity politics and intersectionality, issues of race, feminism, etc. - have much more obvious antecedents on the left. As I said, I'm not well read on the Frankfurt school, so might be totally wrong, but I haven't known those guys to talk about race and gender much? Like even the existentialists fit much more closely, as far as right-wing talking points go.
But yeah I'm probably overthinking and it's all just down to "marxism" having a sinister ring in the US.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 9 October 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
also has something to do w/ The Authoritarian Personality which despite adorno's participation strikes me as a break from the frankfurt school and not a continuation
― Mordy, Monday, 9 October 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
The last few eps of the Philosophize This! podcast have been about the Frankfurt School
― Hit to Death in the "Galactic Head" (kingfish), Monday, 9 October 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
none of them know anything about adorno. "cultural marxism" is the equivalent of "cultural bolshevism" ---- lump all the changes in culture that enrage your target audience together, and insist that they have something to do with a vanguardist conspiracy which is consciously pushing an agenda, now in our Elite Liberal Colleges.
― Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
Adorno probably knew more about and had a greater love and desire to preserve Eurocentric Western high culture than anyone in the current alt-right.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 02:12 (six years ago) link
he absolutely did
― Treeship, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 02:14 (six years ago) link
adorno said the revolution should have been the moment of "philosophy's realization" and he lamented that this moment was "missed." his marxism was about fulfilling the highest promises of modernity/the enlightenment while overcoming its violent aspects. the frankfurt school was absolutely not against "the west" as such. if people on the alt right believe that it is because they are morons.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 02:18 (six years ago) link
i think if you read around you will find ppl on the alt-right (eg mcdonald) who do lodge specific critiques at adorno's writing tho as i said above ime it's almost exclusively from authoritarian personality w/ maybe some out of context quotes from other works. of course when km discusses frankfurt school he makes the antisemitism implicit in the conspiracy theory explicit and surely the "jewishness" of frankfurt plays a role in its popularity.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 02:26 (six years ago) link
Mentioned in the New Republic article, but I think recent alt-right prominence of the Frankfurt School bogeyman comes via the Breivik manifesto. Breivik cites Michael Minnicino's 'New Dark Age: the Frankfurt School and Political Correctness', a '92 essay published in Fidelio and available online. Fidelio is the journal of the Schiller Institute, whose wiki page I am enjoying now.
― woof, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 09:48 (six years ago) link
Good call. (Graun article about why Breivik feared the Frankfurter Schule)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 09:52 (six years ago) link
"hey im being doxxed by the proud boys"
where is this happening, chaki? Fuck those guys to hell and back
― akm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
the use of the term cultural marxism is basically meaningless nonsense, completely uncoupled to what the frankfurt school actually was about. i almost never see it used to denote anything other than social liberalism. it just adds the insinuation that the terrible movements for racial justice, lgbt rights, migrant rights etc. are caused by a cabal of jewish academics
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:44 (six years ago) link
'cultural marxism' = 'culture industry' imo
― Mordy, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
yeah since there's nothing discernably "marxist" about that phenomenon, it seems like the term is only used to connote that it is (1) left and (2) jewish
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
I think it's bandied around, yeah, to paint social justice as radical left. There's a very real sense even on the moderate right that social justice movements are a juggernaut aiming at the Harrison Bergeron-ification of the world.
― bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 21:26 (six years ago) link
chaki sayin that the DFA 1979 dude is a Proud Boi
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:11 (six years ago) link
quick internetting on a Proud Boi tumblr
http://78.media.tumblr.com/c6aed4a511529529fea10d4306320105/tumblr_inline_oix6h4Bzdh1tfpjwx_500.jpg
in this photo w/Gavin I., i think the dude with his hat pulled half over his face is in DFA 1979
― nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:20 (six years ago) link
^^^based on my detective work this is from election night
1. the dude is on the gavin show constantly https://www.compoundmedia.com/shows/?search=Jesse+F.+Keeler
2. the proud boys call him one of their own in this article https://www.proudboymag.com/proud-boys-white-pride-new-york-magazine/
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
wholly unsurprised by this if it's true, given the band's profile
― maura, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:41 (six years ago) link
*if* it's true, i said
(as a way of covering my ass)
― maura, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:42 (six years ago) link
yeah I feel like there was some ugly thing involving them recently
― akm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:44 (six years ago) link
https://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/sxsw-music-the-riot-at-death-from-above-1979
― maura, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:53 (six years ago) link
that is the worse designed UX I've run across recently so I checked out. was there anything other than a giant slidshow of shitty pictures?
― akm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 23:54 (six years ago) link
hey while y'all were splitting hairs about the Frankfurt school there were Nazis marching in Charlottesville again:
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/charlottesville-s-top-prosecutor-declines-to-press-charges-over-saturday/article_3374b594-adc2-11e7-93c1-f38457661523.html
― sleeve, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:16 (six years ago) link
and this latest outrage regarding the parking garage assault:
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/deandre-harris-attorney-says-assault-charge-based-on-misleading-evidence/article_0915ce1c-ae05-11e7-a775-9fa5f8e50aaf.html
― sleeve, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:17 (six years ago) link
tbf our splitting hairs about the frankfurt school might have a larger impact on the world than the few hundred nazis marching around charlottesville
― Mordy, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:18 (six years ago) link
haha, yes
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
brb making a video game about the frankfurt school to piss off nazis
lol point taken, it's just my hometown so I take it all personal, plus the Harris assault charge is such BS
― sleeve, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:56 (six years ago) link
I would play that game
take over the minds of college students by stealthily deploying texts in the curriculum
― sleeve, Thursday, 12 October 2017 00:57 (six years ago) link
BArK? a karl sent me over from the samantha bee thread where I was posting this:
Hello! First post from a random mutt wandering by. Last week a Samantha Bee show producer spent an hour with me scoping out a story...
Speaking of patchy, that's my byline where I write about furries. Lately there's a bit of a nazi problem in that community, yes that's a word for it lately too...
There's a new book about them out yesterday from Cleis Press. And speaking of the nazi thing here's tags for it (one) (two) if you care.
The news site is a silly hobby thing, but interesting stuff has happened with it. The nazi thing is yet another push into geek groups (along with gaming, sci fi, comics) so we had some infiltrators document them from the inside, which synched with the Charlottesville nazi marching. I documented a couple of them on the scene of violence. We had them do "swatting" against a furry convention with a 5-figure security cost. And there's been more in the news like another convention getting ruined by them, I broke a story about it that Rolling Stone picked up. With all this going on I would be into stepping up the game by learning from peers in indie reporting.
Bark!
― Sparkledog, Thursday, 12 October 2017 05:29 (six years ago) link
There is only one side. #NoMoreNazis #Wolf2 pic.twitter.com/7Ctu265Mus— Wolfenstein (@wolfenstein) October 15, 2017
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:46 (six years ago) link
Gov. Rick Scott on Monday declared a state of emergency in Alachua County three days ahead of a scheduled speech at the University of Florida campus in Gainesville by the white nationalist Richard Spencer.
“I find that the threat of a potential emergency is imminent,” Scott said in a seven-page executive order.
The governor’s order, Number 17-264, gives all state agencies the power to suspend rules and regulations, including for purchasing, travel and personnel actions. Scott also activated his authority as governor to spend surplus money as he deems necessary.
http://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2017/10/16/gov-scott-declares-emergency-in-alachua-before-spencers-speech/
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:09 (six years ago) link
Never let a good crisis go to waste, even when there is no crisis, yet.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
Nixon, right?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:15 (six years ago) link
hitler is coming, need to grant myself dictatorial powers to stop him.. wait.. what?
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
I am trying very hard not to fixate on the concept of "Nazi furries" and failing spectacularly.
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
Do they call themselves Hairyans? Is their leader Der Furrer?
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 16 October 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
Der Furrier
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 October 2017 18:33 (six years ago) link
You guys have not heard of foxler have you
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, 16 October 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
I have not and am scurred
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 16 October 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
Richard Spencer getting triggered by the crowd at Univ. of Florida.
Spencer is pacing the stage alone, yelling into the mic, telling crowd they are immature, saying reaction shows his own power. #SpencerAtUF pic.twitter.com/dALPuP3VqU— Claire McNeill (@clairemcneill) October 19, 2017
Follow her whole feed for lots of reporting from this.
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 October 2017 19:26 (six years ago) link
This is what it sounds like during the Q&A. Spencer trying to explain white ethno-state. Audience keeping up the noise. #SpencerAtUF pic.twitter.com/W0umTCmIuv— Claire McNeill (@clairemcneill) October 19, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 October 2017 19:27 (six years ago) link
excellent
― sleeve, Thursday, 19 October 2017 19:33 (six years ago) link
Audience member asks #RichardSpencer: "Given how ugly you are, how can you say you're part of a superior race?" 🔥#SpencerAtUF— Caroline O. (@RVAwonk) October 19, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 October 2017 20:01 (six years ago) link
https://www.propublica.org/article/white-hate-group-campaign-of-menace-rise-above-movement
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
All of those people deserve to be murdered
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:48 (six years ago) link
Can’t finish the article
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:49 (six years ago) link
xp that's a little hard on ProPublica
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:21 (six years ago) link
nobody hurt, but
http://www.gainesville.com/news/20171020/three-charged-in-shooting-after-spencer-talk
― sleeve, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:24 (six years ago) link
nice juxtaposition in those last two paragraphs
“It’s always been socially acceptable to punch a Nazi, to attack people if they have right-wing political leanings,” Fears said. “Us coming in and saying we’re taking over your town, we’re starting to push back, we’re starting to want to intimidate back. We want to show our teeth a little bit because, you know, we’re not to be taken lightly. We don’t want violence; we don’t want harm. But at the end of the day, we’re not opposed to defending ourselves.”
Fears was arrested in 2009 on an aggravated kidnapping charge after abducting a female acquaintance in Texas, media reports show.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 15:33 (six years ago) link
seems v punchable tbqh
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 21 October 2017 00:44 (six years ago) link
It’s always been socially acceptable to punch a Nazi
Operation Anthropoid proved that, for sure
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 21 October 2017 00:48 (six years ago) link
“It’s always been socially acceptable to punch a Nazi, to attack people if they have right-wing political leanings,”
MILO (or more correctly, that guy that actually writes MILO's shit) says you can be one, but not both!
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 21 October 2017 07:28 (six years ago) link
Lauren Southern is coming to my uni's campus tomorrow.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 01:53 (six years ago) link
We don’t want violence; we don’t want harm. But at the end of the day, we’re not opposed to defending ourselves.This was the same thing one of those angry bald whiteys said in the Vice doco about the original Charlottesville protests. And then he went on to say he'd happily shoot and kill anyone if he had to. While he fussed over his huge stash of guns on his hotel bed.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 02:51 (six years ago) link
is she the psycho that blocked refugee boats in the mediterranean?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 05:19 (six years ago) link
Holy fuck this is a chilling read: https://www.thedailybeast.com/youtube-trumpkin-and-former-milo-intern-kills-his-own-dad-for-calling-him-a-nazi
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 13:45 (six years ago) link
Lane Davis told detectives that the fight had started over “whether toddlers could consent to sex or not,”
"Nazi" is too precise a term for these wrong-side-of-everything fuckheads.
― stet, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
He was probably not arguing that they could, if he was also into Pizzagate.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 13:56 (six years ago) link
Somewhat reinforces my suspicions about contributors to /r/The_Donald - it would be nice if reddit could somehow sticky this story on there
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:03 (six years ago) link
― stet, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:29 (six years ago) link
nah, probably the dad was arguing that the pizzagate scandal was an insane conspiracy theory and the kid was arguing that toddlers can't consent.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:31 (six years ago) link
you're assuming that the crazy trump supporter who stabbed him dad to death was having a comprehensible argument
his*
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:32 (six years ago) link
tru
― stet, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:57 (six years ago) link
it all sounds like the guy is clearly mentally unwell, big time. that's a really sad story. the moral seems to be if your adult child is living at home and spending too much time on the internet and having episodes, get them help. it's not "a phase."
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 14:57 (six years ago) link
is she the psycho that blocked refugee boats in the mediterranean?― flappy bird, Wednesday, October 25, 2017 12:19 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flappy bird, Wednesday, October 25, 2017 12:19 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yes. She's here to speak about "the Evils of Socialist Authoritarianism and Necessity of Free Speech". http://www.citypages.com/news/alt-right-darling-lauren-southern-to-bring-troll-act-to-university-of-minnesota/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
Nothing like utilizing the campus of a huge state school to decry socialism…
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
Yeah I love seeing RONPAUL/Gary Johnson stickers on cars parked in the lots at the giant land-grant public universities I've worked at.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
it all sounds like the guy is clearly mentally unwell, big time.
No, it doesn't. It sounds like this guy is a rage-filled asshole who finally crossed a line he couldn't walk back over.
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
Mordy OTM, "why are you defending paedophiles" is "why are you pointing out that all I have to argue with is a thick slurry of conspiracy theory, homophobia and anti-semitism" when translated through the crazy wall.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:17 (six years ago) link
Always suspicious of anyone who kicks up that much of a performative hooha about paedophilia tbh.
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:47 (six years ago) link
the far/fringe right has always preyed on/chewed up the mentally ill in this way, it's fucking disgusting.
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 21:32 (six years ago) link
Many XPs but i doubt this was a convo with a pro "toddlers can consent" position. it was probably more like:"the Democrats are raping toddlers at this pizza place.""I highly doubt that""oh so you're saying the toddlers are consenting?"etc.
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 21:38 (six years ago) link
nomar - can you link to the tumlr page you found this image? http://78.media.tumblr.com/c6aed4a511529529fea10d4306320105/tumblr_inline_oix6h4Bzdh1tfpjwx_500.jpg
thank you!
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:14 (six years ago) link
hey lemme dig it up
― nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:18 (six years ago) link
here!
http://napalmchef.tumblr.com/post/155091934561/2016-year-in-review
― nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
according to this tumblr it was a Proud Boi election night party
― nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:23 (six years ago) link
oh i've already noted that upthread...anyway
― nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
Whirlwind year for that Tumblr guy! So fn weird
― badg, Thursday, 26 October 2017 19:26 (six years ago) link
"WHITE Star is a casual neighborhood American restaurant and craft cocktail bar in Jersey City. We PRIDE ourselves on serving Jersey City's Best burger."
― dan selzer, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:31 (six years ago) link
https://medium.com/@stevemanimalhershman/death-from-above-1979-the-proud-boys-and-the-alt-right-44885a0dfb62
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
oh yeah chaki tweeted about that a while ago -- and apparently at the drive-in know and don't really care?
― gbx, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:42 (six years ago) link
I linked that on FB and although the link works if you right-click, it displays as "not found" fwiw
― sleeve, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:43 (six years ago) link
nice work, chaki!
the more light shined on people like that the better.
― nomar, Thursday, 26 October 2017 21:15 (six years ago) link
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1597541903618265&id=179280658777737&hc_location=ufi
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Friday, 27 October 2017 09:58 (six years ago) link
Reasonable response, imo?
― how's life, Friday, 27 October 2017 11:38 (six years ago) link
I'm aware this is a little glib, but seriously - CTRL-F 'condemn'
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 27 October 2017 11:55 (six years ago) link
At best he sounds like a chump who was oblivious to how shitty a human being McInnes is.
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Friday, 27 October 2017 11:58 (six years ago) link
He doesn't see people, man, he sees glittering glowy clouds that he's naturally curious about.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 27 October 2017 12:03 (six years ago) link
Okay that's a bit harsh, he's not Wayne Coyne.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 27 October 2017 12:04 (six years ago) link
'im against violence' .... [thinker emoji]
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 27 October 2017 12:17 (six years ago) link
Lord have mercy on my soul, but i'm still lolling and Phil D's hypothesised marx brothers style dialogue there.
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 27 October 2017 12:37 (six years ago) link
Lolling at
― Andrew Farrell
worse than glib imo. i mean do we want to just start writing people's apologies for them? as far as i can tell literally all dfa guy has against him is guilt by association. somebody willing to end his association with the proud boys? yeah i'll kill the fatted calf for him.
for the record, i don't know the band, have never heard any of their songs, honestly don't give a shit about this guy one way or another.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Friday, 27 October 2017 12:42 (six years ago) link
i believe jfk and dont think hes a racist pb. he just seems like a giant dumb dumb, but when the founder of the pbs calls you out as one of their own and you're a famous rock star, i think it's ok to ask "wtf?"
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 27 October 2017 13:07 (six years ago) link
I don't want to write it for him, I do think McInnes as a "Oh he's a friend, his stuff is so un-PC" is a bad look.
The closest he gets to "I fucked up" is "he invited me and regrettably I attended" - or possibly "Unfortunately, my actions have brought me here, and I am deeply heartbroken about it."
Though it might all be a bit moot: http://www.upsetmagazine.com/news/apparently-jesse-f-keeler-death-regular-guest-alt-right-podcast/
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 27 October 2017 13:08 (six years ago) link
Gavin has weighed in on the issue https://www.facebook.com/DeathFromAbove1979/posts/1597541903618265?comment_id=1597760913596364&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R9%22%7D
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 27 October 2017 13:12 (six years ago) link
That Upset piece is confusing. Is it Jesse who said the following?
“I’m excited about Tommy Robinson,” Jesse says in episode 133, in which the former English Defence League leader is also a guest, before going on to discuss Britain’s multiculturalism.“You’re in Britain by name, anyway,” he says of inexplicably not being able to find a pub in Tommy’s hometown, Luton.“I have a new theory that maybe these people, is it that social justice warriors have no kids and so they’re not interested in the future? Is that part of it, maybe?“They’re just thinking that it doesn’t matter if our cultures or our country doesn’t exist anymore because we’re not going to have anyone there? You’re not as concerned?“Is that why Angela Merkel is such a ‘great person’?”
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Friday, 27 October 2017 13:20 (six years ago) link
there's definitely a touch of "I can't be racist I have [x race] (grandfather/father/kids/wife)" in the DFA statement but imho it takes some measure of fortitude to speak out against someone who's been instrumental in your career
― Simon H., Friday, 27 October 2017 13:23 (six years ago) link
In 2010, Lane published a very long paper, “Quantum Cold-Case Mysteries Revisited,” in The General Science Journal, a non-peer-reviewed electronic journal that allows literally anyone to contribute and includes a warning against assuming claims made therein are true or fit “for any purpose or use.”
― j., Friday, 27 October 2017 13:28 (six years ago) link
"I am now saying that I gave this guy the benefit of the doubt but it turned out that was a mistake and he is a scumbag - I hope people will be willing to extend that sentiment to me"
― conrad, Friday, 27 October 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
lmao kurt u did it
"The reality is that I am not 'Alt-Right,' nor a White Supremacist"—Jesse F. Keeler https://t.co/5xtwuPHs7z— Pitchfork (@pitchfork) October 27, 2017
― "the fgti incident?" (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 27 October 2017 14:10 (six years ago) link
o fuk
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 27 October 2017 14:30 (six years ago) link
gee election night w/Gavin McInnes, i'm sure it was just a few beers with the fellas and warm friendly conversation.
nice try at hiding his face in the photo though.
― nomar, Friday, 27 October 2017 15:13 (six years ago) link
Well this is damning when you see what MacInnes was writing for Taki in 2011. https://t.co/ILNKU0QNE7— Dorian Lynskey (@Dorianlynskey) October 27, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 27 October 2017 15:16 (six years ago) link
hearty and genuine lols at that deftones shirt though.
― how's life, Friday, 27 October 2017 15:17 (six years ago) link
well done chaki respec knuckles
― Οὖτις, Friday, 27 October 2017 15:24 (six years ago) link
icymi, the Daily Stormer is being hosted...
https://theintercept.com/2017/10/27/daily-stormer-anguilla-web-domain/
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 28 October 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
Is it just white parents because, while childless, I also request beheading— BranDIE Jensen (@BrandyLJensen) October 30, 2017
How do I get in touch with Mr. Bloke— BranDIE Jensen (@BrandyLJensen) October 30, 2017
Nov 4th just scant shopping days away!
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 22:39 (six years ago) link
idgi
― El Tomboto, Monday, 30 October 2017 23:02 (six years ago) link
theres a RW meme going around about how nov 4th there will be mass beheadings by antifa
― ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:10 (six years ago) link
Viralpost going round last week that Antifa were planning riots in various exurbs on the 4th. The obviously real Post mentioned how they would behead white patents
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:11 (six years ago) link
sounds cool let's line em up
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:16 (six years ago) link
ANTIFA Leader: "November 4th [...] millions of antifa supersoldiers will behead all white parents" https://t.co/utJU8wslod— Bill Mitchell (@mitchellvii) October 30, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
this would be funny if it weren't for the fact that some pro-Trump idiot will inevitably shoot the first person who looks "antifa" to him on november 4th
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
He's actually called Tom Bloke?
― Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
There is no tick next to his Twitter icon so I am not able to confirm that he is actually called Tom Bloke.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 30 October 2017 23:42 (six years ago) link
Verrit number needed
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:47 (six years ago) link
I’m curious if they’ll get a repeat of the last mass fake meeting, and dude wound up shooting himself
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:49 (six years ago) link
howdy folks i'm sherrif antifa and i'm here to say we're gonna have a rootin tootin good time on nov 4 when we burn down scott baio's house— boo-gene dabs 👻 (@serfing_usa) October 30, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:57 (six years ago) link
SCREAMING pic.twitter.com/j99CcVxm31— undead boo!ver (@vs_cointelpro) October 30, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 01:49 (six years ago) link
Antifascist Action LLC
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 01:53 (six years ago) link
Note the media contact
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 04:41 (six years ago) link
I was also impressed antifa had managed to hire a jewish Moslem.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 08:01 (six years ago) link
who works for HP's Investor Relations?
― dan selzer, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 11:20 (six years ago) link
I proudly buy HP stock to show my support of white genocide
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 13:18 (six years ago) link
North Jersey Coast Line: 15 Minute Service Delays Possible - Saturday, November 4, 2017 https://t.co/eV2xFUHN5c— NJ TRANSIT - NJCL (@NJTRANSIT_NJCL) October 31, 2017
I guess that's when they'll be doing all the killings.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 13:27 (six years ago) link
― proton, neutron, electron and crouton (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 13:36 (six years ago) link
wow antifa plz rethink this banner pic.twitter.com/8i59fF7NJ8— KRANG 👻 NELSON (@KrangTNelson) October 31, 2017
― frogbs, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 15:39 (six years ago) link
hey does anyone know why Krang got suspended from twitter the other day?
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:30 (six years ago) link
i think it was for tweeting the november 4 beheading meme
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:56 (six years ago) link
meanwhile Richard Spencer still has a verified account, w2g Twitter
― frogbs, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:57 (six years ago) link
The what now? I don't want to google that, do I?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:59 (six years ago) link
it's ten posts back in this thread and it's a joke
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
oic, ta
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:02 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:30 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he wrote it up for vice
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/evbpkn/twitter-suspended-me-for-trolling-white-supremacists
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:45 (six years ago) link
he couldn't get that up in a non-white supremacist outlet?
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:27 (six years ago) link
https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/11/01/4chan-troll-movement-hits-rocky-river-with-its-ok-to-be-white-signs
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:27 (six years ago) link
Did you read the comments on that?
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link
There weren't any when I first read, and knowing what West Side Clevelanders are like I'm inclined not to!
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:29 (six years ago) link
Actually I don't even need to qualify that -- white Clevelanders generally are pretty shitty. West Siders = white flight, East Siders = meatheads. (I just looked at the comments and pretty much what I expected.)
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:33 (six years ago) link
I think it's mostly channers - must be linked somewhere.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
I mean, the country elected Donald Trump to be President; I think we should stop knee-jerk characterizing comment assholes as messageboard refugees.
― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:48 (six years ago) link
why would you ever, ever read the comments on anything?
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:48 (six years ago) link
Because, when you don't you get blindsided by things like the country electing Donald Trump President (he says, doing a fantastic impression of a broken record)
― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:49 (six years ago) link
The only reason I suggested they might be from 4chan is the slang used.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Thursday, 2 November 2017 00:37 (six years ago) link
So @NBCNews did a dangerously naive piece on Proud Boys, made them out to be a drinking club w a few un-PC opinions https://t.co/eifDgZeOFy— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 2, 2017
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 2 November 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
Following thread shows just how terrible the NBC piece is.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 2 November 2017 16:28 (six years ago) link
is "Left Field" NBC's with-it dad attempt at Vice-style journalism?
― drejelire, Thursday, 2 November 2017 16:40 (six years ago) link
On the plus side, human skidmark Laura Loomer lost her little checkmark on Twitter yesterday.
hi @twitter this clearly constitutes hate speech. why does @LauraLoomer have an account, much less a verified one? pic.twitter.com/KVUFzNUW9a— Anthony Oliveira (@meakoopa) November 1, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
Oh nm that's a fake account. :\
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
the person who responded was fake; the real Laura Loomer did actually tweet all that stuff which is (sadly) not surprising
there was a video that popped up of her drunkenly hitting on a guy, citing his "great Aryan features", it is cringey as hell
― frogbs, Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:41 (six years ago) link
Oh, I know, I tweeted back that I hoped someone who noticed her taking their picture punched her lights out.
She also tweeted that she was 30 minutes late to an NYPD press conference because she "couldn't find a single Uber, Lyft or can driver who wasn't Muslim." How she could tell remains a mystery, since certainly she wasn't assuming based on name or skin color.
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
well this is fun
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2017/11/02/propublica-white-supremacists-share-bombmaking-materials-in-online-chats
― global tetrahedron, Friday, 3 November 2017 00:42 (six years ago) link
everyone involved in that nbc piece is scum
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 3 November 2017 02:05 (six years ago) link
On reddit, I called out the possibility of “pro trump/republican” people pretending to be outraged liberals over the news article about ‘It’s Okay To Be White’ printouts being hung on the doors of a high-school. I got tons of downvotes in one ten minute span and a bunch of replies that included one person declaring how outraged BLM people acted over this - giving examples of black people spazzing out, ripping down these signs, confronting white people and telling them “fuck you, go to hell” (none of which was mentioned in any news article).
Blarg. Fake propagandists are still in full force nearly a year after Trump has been elected. I ran into them on reddit of all places. This was the first time I posted politics on reddit. There has got to be thousands and thousands of propaganda accounts abusing upvotes/downvotes on the web in order to control what information gets heard - particularly disinformation.
― Woon... Doopee Time (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 4 November 2017 15:34 (six years ago) link
I ran into them on reddit of all places.
if you assign a terribleness score and a popularity multiplier to internet hangouts, and then multiply them together, reddit is actually the worst place on the entire internet, scientifically
― Karl Malone, Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:00 (six years ago) link
There are probably private subreddits that are a rallying points for “go here and upvote/downvote this. Reply to this”.
― Woon... Doopee Time (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
Yeah, reddit surely one of the main places you should expect this.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
On reddit, I called out the possibility of “pro trump/republican” people pretending to be outraged liberals over the news article about ‘It’s Okay To Be White’ printouts being hung on the doors of a high-school.
you don't think anyone is legitimately outraged by "it's okay to be white" printouts?
― Mordy, Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
btw i'm thinking it's pretty irresponsible that wapost, slate and other mainstream media outlets have amplified the voices of a marginal group of online conspiracists to create the impression that there's a civil war about to start today.
― Mordy, Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:12 (six years ago) link
I just picked up my soros check now I’m headed to the antifa armory in downtown LA for my beheading axe. Good luck to all...
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Saturday, 4 November 2017 16:52 (six years ago) link
Chop chop
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 4 November 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
I am pleased to report no fascists at today's TO demo
― Simon H., Saturday, 4 November 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
after ONE day, milo was SO fired from daily caller that they fired his boss for being dumb enough to hire an open pedophile in the 1st place pic.twitter.com/O8hMhiQ6vM— KRANG T. NELSON (@KrangTNelson) November 4, 2017
― j., Sunday, 5 November 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
pretty irresponsible of a marginal group of online conspiracists to attempt their revolution on the fourth of november and not the fifth. i know they already own the masks.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Sunday, 5 November 2017 00:55 (six years ago) link
Haha i had that thought too - the 4th instead of the 5th?! Wtf
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 5 November 2017 03:31 (six years ago) link
what -- why is that alt-right guy into leftist American punk
― Nhex, Sunday, 5 November 2017 08:02 (six years ago) link
because their political ideology is little more than inchoate male rage?
― maura, Sunday, 5 November 2017 13:16 (six years ago) link
just spitballing here
anyway i wasn’t really sure where to put this buthttps://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-troll-princess-duped-the-mainstream-media-and-the-world
anyway i wasn’t really sure where to put this buthttps://www.thedailybeast.com/jenna-abrams-russias-clown-troll-princess-duped-the-mainstream-media-and-the-world🕸
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 5 November 2017 14:18 (six years ago) link
need a CARCOSA wall
― j., Sunday, 5 November 2017 14:36 (six years ago) link
Good news, everyone: the Antifa menace has been successfully scared into submission!
The only way Antifa Day was ever going to end: Conservatives bragging that the fake enemy of their conspiracy theory was too afraid to show. pic.twitter.com/wi8mZdY7Fe— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) November 5, 2017
― Moodles, Sunday, 5 November 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
"Can't make this up"
― drejelire, Sunday, 5 November 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
just checked both my closet and under the bed, and the Boogeyman was too chicken to show up in either! 😂😂😂 ROTFLOL
― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 5 November 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
those are probably all russians anyway
― j., Sunday, 5 November 2017 22:06 (six years ago) link
Meanwhile these fuckheads are making shit up as usual
Antifa discuss attacking churches pic.twitter.com/qeFFCjgEwo— Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) November 3, 2017
Mass shooting at The First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, which has a largely white denomination. Antifa terrorist attack?— Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 (@Cernovich) November 5, 2017
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Sunday, 5 November 2017 23:26 (six years ago) link
The far right is determined to pin the #SutherlandSprings shooting on Antifa pic.twitter.com/KjJht32E16— Christopher Mathias (@letsgomathias) November 6, 2017
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 6 November 2017 01:47 (six years ago) link
I feel like a future mass shooter is going to come from their ranks. If you search "Sutherland Springs" on Twitter, you'll see all kinds of crazy claims. One says the government and their MKULTRA programs are behind it ; another says that the shooter brought a copy of Das Kapital to the service and declared a communist revolution. Never mind that antifa tend to be anarchists and not communists, and certainly not Soros-funded Democrats. If these people aren't trolls and bots, they're frightening.
― Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Monday, 6 November 2017 01:58 (six years ago) link
Gary Younge schooling R1chard Sp3enc3er
On a personal journey across white America, writer Gary Younge came face to face with alt-right leader Richard Spencer @Channel4 Thurs 10pm pic.twitter.com/25f0gHWmjO— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) November 7, 2017
― Neil S, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
not an easy watch, but the look of incomprehension when Younge introduces himself is priceless
― Neil S, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
I needed to watch the video of him being punched straight afterwards
It's good to get him on camera being a straightforward dimbulb racist, rather than his usual slick dog whistle approach
Even the way he was holding his drink was insufferable
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
credit to Younge for restraining his anger while still absolutely pwning the greasy little fucker
― Neil S, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 13:54 (six years ago) link
more footage from that interview here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJ-arJgkZU
― jmm, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:19 (six years ago) link
"ancient egypt doesn't count as africa"
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:29 (six years ago) link
The "you'll never be an Englishman" line is just so shocking
it's like the daily mail comment section went to finishing school
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:35 (six years ago) link
comment section derp is the most powerful poetry of our time apparently
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
Spencer's transparent shock that the interviewer was a black man was pretty telling
― frogbs, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:41 (six years ago) link
it's true, up to that point I wasn't sure if Spencer was a Nazi or not
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 16:56 (six years ago) link
FAP for marching
― Estar Dan do (ORANGUTANS 13), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
We could start a band
― Estar Dan do (ORANGUTANS 13), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 17:01 (six years ago) link
Charles Pierce has the right idea regarding the Page transcript:
I found that the best way to read it was to dim all the lights and play all my Hawkwind albums really loud.
― Moodles, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
oops, wrong thread...
― Moodles, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
Texas shooter was member of violent far-right Atomwaffen(tentative) and/or lots of money changed hands among neo-nazi groups just prior to the attack -> right media claiming antifa/leftist involvement -
dark shit here, cw violent racism, homophobia etchttps://medium.com/@EugeneVDebian/sutherland-springs-shooter-member-of-far-right-neo-nazi-group-atomwaffen-a358b920fc86
― ian, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
thx ian
― sleeve, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
obviously this is unproven at this point but the evidence as described is pretty compelling.
― ian, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
i cannot believe that spencer piece.
― correlated noise of conformity (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
this
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:09 (six years ago) link
Also, Spencer's "You'll never be an Englishman" line... Spencer will never be a Native American!
The videos designed to terrify kids on YT thing (see excrable kids programming thread) could be linked to gamergate apparently
Translation: I think the alt-right underground involved in the worst of G*g*te is responsible for the YouTube child abuse video phenomenon.— Corey Pein (@coreypein) November 7, 2017
― stet, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:19 (six years ago) link
I needed to watch the video of him being punched straight afterwardsthis
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Tuesday, November 7, 2017 3:09 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ha that is what i did
― marcos, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:21 (six years ago) link
xp i cannot really understand that tweet thread. what is he talking about???
― marcos, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:23 (six years ago) link
And he's not English either!! Obv he still wouldn't get to tell him anything if he was, but the fact that this entitled prick thinks it's his call to make...
i cannot really understand that tweet thread. what is he talking about???
https://medium.com/@jamesbridle/something-is-wrong-on-the-internet-c39c471271d2
(fwiw I kinda think that might be missing the point of that article tho: the real terror is not the trolls making these videos - it doesn't take a big conspiracy, there were anti-Barney the Dinosaur sites in the late 90's - but the bots and algorithms hoovering those up and spitting them back out in 5 Hours Of Peppa The Pig videos)
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:31 (six years ago) link
The freak family stuff in that article is majorly effed. Interesting stuff but I wish manplainy guys who want to write 5000 word Medium posts could learn to, you know, edit.
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:38 (six years ago) link
that article seems to be going viral, which I think is good
― sleeve, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:43 (six years ago) link
xp to daniel yea i did read the medium piece yesterday but yea i agree it seems like a stretch (based on that tweet thread) that alt-right gamergate dudes are responsible for this phenomena.....
― marcos, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 20:43 (six years ago) link
He’s writing it really poorly but I think he’s saying they’re taking advantage of/expanding on something already there, not totally responsible for it.
― stet, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:35 (six years ago) link
we need a separate thread for that Kids YouTube article. it's long because, unlike the button-pushing NYT article, he's trying to map out in detail the entire phenomenon so that it doesn't instantly snowball into hysterical descriptions like 'YouTube Child Abuse Phenomenon' but it doesn't take much for someone to already be tying it directly to gamergate
(says the fully grown adult who's just lost another 20 minutes to skimming through the highlights of 'Spiderman Frozen Elsa PREGNANT Hulk Vs Joker Venom Scream Face Killer Clown Fun SuperHeroes Prank', 2.5 million views)
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 21:57 (six years ago) link
it would be a good idea for a separate thread, but for now it's been discussed here:
execrable children's programming pox
― frogbs, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:06 (six years ago) link
the medium article is fascinating. Whether or not you think the author is hyping it all a little too much you can't say he's not thinking through how all of it works.
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:17 (six years ago) link
yes I think it needs to be that long. the NYT article is punchy, but leads to panicked conclusions about 'child abuse' when the true issue is more akin to market failure.
friend has a executive pal at Nickelodeon who is obsessing about finding out who's behind Animals For Kids, I imagine they will get a show out of this. it's definitely not appropriate for unsupervised infants or babies or children but it is admittedly some kind of brilliant. it would be nice to at least know who the hell they are and what they're thinking. countless millions of combined views.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:23 (six years ago) link
way off the alt-right topic now but just to show how all these issues overlap, here are my two favorite pulls from each of the articles, look how easily they also apply to alt-right quandaries
NYT: Google has largely defended its errors by pointing to the enormous amount of content it hosts, including more than 400 hours of content uploaded to YouTube every minute.
Bridle: I have no idea how they can respond without shutting down the service itself, and most systems which resemble it. We have built a world which operates at scale, where human oversight is simply impossible, and no manner of inhuman oversight will counter most of the examples I’ve used in this essay.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:24 (six years ago) link
I reckon it is rare to find someone as well read as Richard Spencer and with his high level of education bringing in all sorts of ideas. He spoke no lies in that video. But there is no doubt in my mind it was done to spread more left wing lies. There ain't no arguments in that video. No siree Bob. Just running their yappers. It is a real shame he is driven by hate though.
― The Sniper, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:26 (six years ago) link
lol, oh you
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link
No sireeee Bob!
xpost to myself, it is definitely the case that Bridle did not link to the worst stuff. The worst stuff is easily found and is utterly, utterly nightmarish. I didn't even post this to the People-Making thread because I respect wanting to keep it positive there; the Animals For Kids stuff is demented / goony & still has a discernable moral center -- the second you go to something like 'Mickey Mouse Peeking Girlfriends Bathing Full Episodes! Minnie Mouse, Donald Duck New Cartoon', your youtube auto-cue will become a living nightmare and you don't want to do that on a shared family computer
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
the h3h3 channel (not a fan) exposed SOME of the "toy" channels being created by the dudes that were doing the viral "it's just a prank bro" videos and then stopped making money on the monetization so they jumped over to where the $$$ is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBWf6Zvn0jQ
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 7 November 2017 22:43 (six years ago) link
Those seem to be very different things though, that's basically a public access cable as-was mentality applied to the genre of the autogenerated stuff. If there's recognisable humans making it, it's in a different category.
― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 00:17 (six years ago) link
want to rescind my earlier comments about how this is more market failure than child abuse. I've seen some more Animals For Kids videos that can only be described as intentionally created to harm young children. the sections with guns. these people aren't getting a Nickelodeon show, hopefully they'll be exposed and held to account.
evidently on youtube kids until recently, millions of hits. profoundly upsetting. there's a very, very good reason Bridle didn't link. I'd unwatch if I could.
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:09 (six years ago) link
Whenever I think we’re not living in the future dystopia I imagined as a teen things like this remind me I just didn’t imagine it fully.
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:13 (six years ago) link
I realize this is a legit digression but it bums me out that it is buried in this thread instead of on "execrable chlidren's programming" or perhaps a new thread for this new phenomenon as Milton suggested
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:17 (six years ago) link
I would start it but I don't know what to call it
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:18 (six years ago) link
Kideodrome
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:34 (six years ago) link
that's pretty damn good
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:37 (six years ago) link
KIDEODROME: scary "Kid's Youtube" algorithms, fringe programming, insert conspiracy theory here
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 02:43 (six years ago) link
holy shit that's good.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 03:50 (six years ago) link
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/11/richard-spencer-bounced-a-10000-check-to-rent-out-the-university-of-floridas-auditorium-report/
― j., Thursday, 9 November 2017 06:20 (six years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/technology/incels-reddit-banned.html
― j., Friday, 10 November 2017 03:14 (six years ago) link
There was a small Nazi demo in Vancouver, WA today. Antifa showed up, some yelling was done, but that’s it apparently.
Tomorrow there’s an “It’s ok to be white” rally that I’ll be dropping into. Stay tuned. pic.twitter.com/YEay6C101u— Mike Bivins (@itsmikebivins) November 13, 2017
Pic of the swastika on raul’s knife pic.twitter.com/UbLvbsVBUz— Mike Bivins (@itsmikebivins) November 13, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 00:03 (six years ago) link
Wear a belt and get your gig line sorted, nazi pig
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 14 November 2017 00:10 (six years ago) link
This whole brief thread is the best.
Baked Alaska got banned permanently from Twitter and now he's ranting outside a McDonald's that "Twitter cannot get away with this" pic.twitter.com/YXJ0vinzxI— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 15, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 15 November 2017 23:23 (six years ago) link
"First they came for the Alt-Right, and I asked them if they needed help - because fuck the Alt-Right." - Sir Farts-a-Lot— Sir Farts-a-Lot™ 🏴 (@NopeNotThisTime) September 12, 2017
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 16 November 2017 02:43 (six years ago) link
Vic Berger offering up a nice summation of an onscreen breakdown
Are You There God? It's Me, Baked.Former Twitter user @bakedalaska's In-N-Out Burger parking lot breakdown pic.twitter.com/BkIo9q3tK3— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) November 16, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Thursday, 16 November 2017 19:43 (six years ago) link
how the hell is Baked Alaska a real person
― frogbs, Thursday, 16 November 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
loooool, that berger clip is amazing
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 16 November 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
I think in other times he’d just be some weird dude going on about timecube online or some shit. He just came along at the wrong time and gravitated to the wrong people
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Thursday, 16 November 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
the stream the berger clip is editing from is something like 8 hours and 50 minutes long.
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 November 2017 21:05 (six years ago) link
America is so fucking doomed.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 16 November 2017 21:50 (six years ago) link
How do any of these choads have the balls to believe they are the "master race"?
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Friday, 17 November 2017 12:50 (six years ago) link
I do wonder.
― kim jong deal (suzy), Friday, 17 November 2017 13:02 (six years ago) link
mainly i’m just confused as to how a bearded maniac with a selfie stick yelling about twitter and harassing passersby about the same for longer than an entire working day didn’t get the cops called on him
― wow. that was truly the minecraft of sex. (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 17 November 2017 13:35 (six years ago) link
― wow. that was truly the minecraft of sex. (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 17 November 2017 13:37 (six years ago) link
ahahaha
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 17 November 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
The irony being that in fact...he not only went to high school, a friend of mine was his classmate.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 November 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
(Said friend has deeply enjoyed dude's implosion this week.)
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 17 November 2017 13:43 (six years ago) link
the plot - quite literally - thickens
― wow. that was truly the minecraft of sex. (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 17 November 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
they are breathtakingly dumb
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 17 November 2017 14:12 (six years ago) link
idk I can get my head around the idiocy of someone like Laura Looner or Cernovich but Baked just seems so unreal to me
― frogbs, Friday, 17 November 2017 14:42 (six years ago) link
baked is mr laura loomer iirc - a real meeting of minds
― wow. that was truly the minecraft of sex. (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 17 November 2017 14:44 (six years ago) link
a match made in heil
― frogbs, Friday, 17 November 2017 14:44 (six years ago) link
That tweet exchange is all-time
― een, Friday, 17 November 2017 14:44 (six years ago) link
A cultural moment
― een, Friday, 17 November 2017 14:45 (six years ago) link
Time capsule shit
even if baked was joking it’s still such a colossal self-own
― wow. that was truly the minecraft of sex. (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 17 November 2017 14:46 (six years ago) link
I assume this wasn't posted yet, it seems terrible
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/12/brotherhood-of-losers/544158/
It is often said that the left won the culture war and the right won the economic war. From the point of view of angry young white men, however, neither side has scored any victories. A generation ago, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher championed the individual and the market, while liberals abandoned institutions like religion, national pride, even the nuclear family in favor of individual freedom. Together, right and left created a world in which a young person could invent his own identity and curate his own personal brand online, but also had dimmed hopes for enjoying what used to be considered the most basic elements of a decent life—marriage, a job, a house, a community. (Liberalism claimed that a village could raise a child, but never got around to building the village.)
actually it kinda did but there's just too many brown people in it for the subjects of your article with whom your fascination would be worrisome if it weren't so sad
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 01:19 (six years ago) link
a generation ago, ronald reagan championed the individual, while liberals abandoned institutions in favor of the individual
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 19 November 2017 01:34 (six years ago) link
I ffwd'd to the last paragraph after that one and it's such bad undergraduate essay form, ugh
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 01:39 (six years ago) link
Angela Nagle is “fascinated” with the alt right because they are symtomatic of a greater plague of anomie. She isb’t sympathetic to them at all; there’s nothing sad about trying to understand something.
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 04:47 (six years ago) link
the article is terrible
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 04:47 (six years ago) link
People just don’t like her because she pointed out something obvious— that the online left and the online right have a symbiotic relationship, feeding off one another’s provocations for clicks. This doesn’t mean there is a moral equivalence between them, it just means that there’s a viral dimension to our current culture war that can only be understood by looking at particular aspects of the attentjon economy and how people form communities on the internet.
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 04:50 (six years ago) link
You might not like her for other reasons but that’s her great sin in the eyes of the people who have been harassing her online
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 04:51 (six years ago) link
counterpoint: the paragraph tombot pasted here is godawful nonsense
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 19 November 2017 04:52 (six years ago) link
The alt right are definitely trying to recruit lost, depressed young men with weak social ties. Cults do this too. It doesn’t seem too far fetched to me.
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 05:04 (six years ago) link
http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/
quality lols here
― faked potato (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 19 November 2017 10:52 (six years ago) link
Angela Nagle is not very good
What nastier ppl say to her online doesn't rly change that treezy
― fake pato is kind of racist, dude (darraghmac), Sunday, 19 November 2017 10:59 (six years ago) link
painting nagle as impassively narrating a destructive feedback loop the online left and right have gotten themselves into would be all well and good, if it wasn't the case that for every comment she has rendering the 'lost boys' of the alt-right understandable she has one snarkily dismissing and mocking the tumblr left
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 19 November 2017 11:35 (six years ago) link
Lol @ expeecting anything better from a Spiked contributor tbh.
Most charitable thing you can say about nagl is, word to nietzsche, the abyss has done some looking into her.
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 19 November 2017 13:56 (six years ago) link
Also, the 'lost boys' schtick is recycled wholesale from laurie penny isn't it? (Who herself, etc)
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Sunday, 19 November 2017 13:58 (six years ago) link
It’s not a schtick it’s an analysis.
There are a lot of things she says that I agree with. First off, her insistence that this new right is qualitatively different than the conservatism of the past, because of its fundamentally anti-establishment, “transgressive” character. They’re more against liberal society — and its keystone virtues of equality and tolerance — than they are for any other regime, which is why their rhetoric is so nihikistic and flamboyantly offensive. Racism isn’t new — it’s embedded in the fabric of American society — but this movement is, and it doesn’t make sense to try to understand it as just another flowering of older hate movements. These people aren’t protecting an old order, they’re like cornered rats lashing out violently. Obviously they are despicable but they must also be seen as symptomatic of a deeper dysfunction in society — the idea that such an ugly, antisocial philosophy could hold any appeal at all. I think that’s what she is trying to understand in her work and people just react by turning around and saying she is being too easy on the alt right or too hard on the left or whatever
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 15:35 (six years ago) link
that just makes it sound like she's been reading this thread tho
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 19 November 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
Bananaman I was skeptical at first but you deserve a thanks/'you were right' for highlighting how much Nagle is mixed-up with Spiked/LM Network shenanigans. She's now been on not 1 but 2 Battle Of Ideas panels! Time to stop feeding and move on I think - there's plenty of others out there doing a better job of analyzing the alt-right (including on this thread/board).
― Unbreakable Kim Jong-Un (Mr Andy M), Sunday, 19 November 2017 16:02 (six years ago) link
wtf, treeship has gotten even dumber
― sleeve, Sunday, 19 November 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
the right being transgressive isnt new—the radical right has always been more willing to use indecency/puerility in their discourse than the left, fascism *was* a form of vanguard politics, 'accelerating' paleoconservatism just like communism accelerated social democracy, and you could see that in avant-garde art too, with futurism and vorticism tilting right more often than left.
They’re more against liberal society — and its keystone virtues of equality and tolerance — than they are for any other regime, + These people aren’t protecting an old order,
this is the premise I really disagree with bc "being against everything and for nothing" is also true of the student left since 1968, and basically a feature of youth politics in general. young ppl arent good at positive proposals.
but also these alt-right guys seemed pretty satisfied with Trump's ideas—a glance at /pol/ during the election would suggest they really liked the idea of protectionism + bashing mexicans and muslims, for example. and thats the thing. these guys are basically edgy racist republicans, and not really a proto-fascist menace threatening to overturn politics as we know it. the american left, bumbling as it is, has more dynamic ideas than the young right does. they also have the disadvantage of their politics being based around excluding anyone who isnt white (or at a stretch, asian) while the left wants to win over as many ppl as possible
also I like the idea of a dispassionate, fact-based account of internet politics, but Nagle does a shit job at it. it's not the feedback loop theory I'm against—for example, I noticed that before 2013, the /pol/ board on 4chan had so little traffic that the admin suggested that it should be deleted, but from 2013 as the "campus SJWs" and "crazy tumblr" clickbait stories began, /pol/ grew immensely with threads mocking these ppl and posting conspiracy theories about 'cultural marxism'. Nagle doesnt do much beyond recycling the same article 10 times though, and there is way better scholarship on culture wars out there. also I dont really care but this whole genre of tweet is so tired and insidious:
Socialist men to cute girls with insane tumblr opinions pic.twitter.com/Mm4oU37SRH— Angela Nagle (@AngNagle) November 9, 2017
― epigone, Sunday, 19 November 2017 16:27 (six years ago) link
idk I think her project is very limited but I also think that tweet is funny
― Simon H., Sunday, 19 November 2017 16:29 (six years ago) link
booming post
― imago, Sunday, 19 November 2017 16:30 (six years ago) link
You’ve done a better job explaining your point than she did explaining hers. I don’t know if I buy that there is really anything new under the sun here, though. There are echoes here in every right wing ethnic nationalist movement ever. Those have never been for or by the establishment - they don’t need all that ruckus.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 17:02 (six years ago) link
Lol wtf so many xposts
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
I don’t understand that tweet. What do I win
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 19 November 2017 17:06 (six years ago) link
these guys are basically edgy racist republicans, and not really a proto-fascist menace threatening to overturn politics as we know it. the american left, bumbling as it is, has more dynamic ideas than the young right does. they also have the disadvantage of their politics being based around excluding anyone who isnt white (or at a stretch, asian) while the left wants to win over as many ppl as possible
I think this is mostly true so far — these are not people with actionable ideas — but i will say that i think there is a serious danger in the way they have polluted the discourse. In mainstream spaces online now (reddit, twitter), you can find people calling for things like a “white ethnostate” or, on the gender side, propagating extremist views that already seem to have contributed to two mass shootings. The normalization of these kinds of ideas as “one side of the argument” strikes me as a tragedy. Young men online becoming politically conscious for the first time are going to stumble across this stuff, which is designed to appeal to their insecurities. I’m not sure if I can really measure the potential harm this could cause but it concerns me a lot. Fascism isn’t compatible with liberal democracy the way conservativism or libertarianism are (in theory... as a ideology—i recognize the republican party has been undermining our democracy for decades)
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 18:31 (six years ago) link
Then again, the fact that many of these people are nihilistic in outlook and seem to have picked up their racism from virtual communities might be their ultimate weakness. It’s hard to know how many of them seem committed to this cause, which is comprised of shapeless, angry people.
― treeship 2, Sunday, 19 November 2017 18:34 (six years ago) link
I think you have to be way more Twitter/Tumblr-involved to get that tweet (I don't).
― louise ck (milo z), Sunday, 19 November 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
I think she's saying that socialist men will profess to believe whatever they think will get them into a pretty girl's bed, isn't that obvious?
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Sunday, 19 November 2017 19:43 (six years ago) link
Thanks for pointing out Angela Nagle is a spikeder - I'd added her book to my wishlist under the impression that it was basically a timely 2017 update of The Rebel Sell, but reading her Twitter feed it's pretty much non-stop trolling challops. A shame as I do want to read the book that I imagined this would be.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 19 November 2017 20:22 (six years ago) link
^ Same here, thanks ILX
― Gavin, Leeds, Sunday, 19 November 2017 21:38 (six years ago) link
a spikedera what? i googled and found no satisfying answer
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Sunday, 19 November 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
http://www.spiked-online.com/
― Number None, Sunday, 19 November 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
online came a spikeder
― fake pato is kind of racist, dude (darraghmac), Sunday, 19 November 2017 22:40 (six years ago) link
Yes, but I don't know the context - like, where is this actually happening on Twitter/Tumblr. Without that it's just a "men drive like THIS" joke.
― louise ck (milo z), Sunday, 19 November 2017 22:43 (six years ago) link
Meanwhile, a new development appears
4Chan /pol/ users are eating onions in an effort to increase their testosterone, and it's not going well pic.twitter.com/jSX9MD4Oyo— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 20, 2017
(Several pics)
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Monday, 20 November 2017 05:16 (six years ago) link
Is this a global right wing nutter thing - Tony Abbot is famous for eating onions like apples.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 20 November 2017 06:00 (six years ago) link
also fred west
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1507773.stm
West, an uncouth man whose personal habits included munching raw onions as if they were apples, recounted in grim detail how he ...
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 20 November 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/cvIC2vRu42— Ken Klippenstein (@kenklippenstein) November 20, 2017
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:44 (six years ago) link
Mocking the Gorka loadout special:
http://taskandpurpose.com/gorka-edc-guns-pocket-constitution-lol/
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Tuesday, 28 November 2017 19:59 (six years ago) link
fuck me look at that waistcoat
http://49m47r1ce5b927clot3yajgk.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/GorkaLede-840x420.jpg
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 28 November 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
dad jeans / skinny belt is chefkiss.jpg
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 28 November 2017 20:26 (six years ago) link
(Via @ericswerdlin) pic.twitter.com/Osp2mPZnOh— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) November 25, 2017
― Moodles, Tuesday, 28 November 2017 20:36 (six years ago) link
genuine lol
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 28 November 2017 21:14 (six years ago) link
All foreign revenue is untaxed after one year.
― reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 04:40 (six years ago) link
Who remembers “Liberality for All?” (Key quote: “Is that my man Hannity?”)
Milo Yiannopoulos sells an extensive line of comic book-themed T-shirts about himself pic.twitter.com/OLHgKLkzih— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 29, 2017
(There’s at least 6 here. One wonders how Steranko would react.)
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 18:18 (six years ago) link
Steranko is a MAGA chud, sadly.
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
xpostSteranko is a Trump supporter fwiw
― Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 29 November 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
Ah rats, now I’m depressed
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 21:51 (six years ago) link
He triggered the libs...but at what cost? pic.twitter.com/drhaZSTsZe— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 29, 2017
The Gateway Pundit updates on Lucian Wintrich's arrest are incredible pic.twitter.com/6B2o6kXrb5— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 29, 2017
Other noteworthy thing about the Lucian Wintrich brawl video is that the guy in red wading in on his behalf is Sal Cipolla, a former top Proud Boy who left the group because he went to Charlottesville / was too alt right for them— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 29, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Wednesday, 29 November 2017 21:52 (six years ago) link
Nevermind Steranko, can't Marvel and DC force a cease & desist? Where are giant evil corporations when you need them?
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 30 November 2017 10:45 (six years ago) link
Am guessing they can't for the same reason Mad can parody things. But yes, I wish they would.
What is wrong with all these fucking choads that they see people like Milo and this Lucien shitrag and don't see horribly broken, failed human beings, but heroic figures instead?
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, 30 November 2017 11:18 (six years ago) link
Sort of answers itself
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 30 November 2017 12:38 (six years ago) link
My god this story is pathetic http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-news-lucian-wintrich-uconn-national-reax-20171129-story.html
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 30 November 2017 12:43 (six years ago) link
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 13:10 (six years ago) link
it never occurred to me before, but Steranko looks kind of like an elderly version of Milo
https://cache.wizardworld.com/files/guests/_350x350_crop_center-center_100/Screen-Shot-2017-08-18-at-11.34.05-AM.png https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/41dc1601a35d0f5c8e892b73a2db0b722f17ca41/0_186_6016_3608/master/6016.jpg?w=300&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=2fb8e255a61b03dce17b5fce0aab656c
― soref, Thursday, 30 November 2017 13:51 (six years ago) link
gahhh
― hi i’m darren and i’m a bouncer from bendigo (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 30 November 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
Steranko looks like a character from Dan Pussey, which makes sense, because he is.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 30 November 2017 14:04 (six years ago) link
woah, if you'd asked me five minutes ago i'd have sworn jim steranko was dead.
― 'cause there's always been an it i can't truss (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 30 November 2017 14:26 (six years ago) link
Making my way through the rest of this piece on the normalization of H!tler. But no, sorry, I'm told its just a meme or somesuch.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 30 November 2017 15:38 (six years ago) link
tag yourself. i'm this guy pic.twitter.com/2jDykw5rLG— Stefan Heck (@boring_as_heck) November 30, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Friday, 1 December 2017 02:16 (six years ago) link
lol white ppl going to college! how fucking white can you be!
― sleepingbag, Friday, 1 December 2017 02:21 (six years ago) link
find other hobbies
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Friday, 1 December 2017 02:32 (six years ago) link
Wait are ppl actually surprised re steranko cuz um
― Οὖτις, Friday, 1 December 2017 02:42 (six years ago) link
Sorry fi MAGA chud
― bumbling my way toward the light or wahtever (hardcore dilettante), Saturday, 2 December 2017 07:10 (six years ago) link
Sonned in a MAGA chud beef
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 2 December 2017 10:53 (six years ago) link
This Sam Seder shit is fucking pathetic.
― JoeStork, Tuesday, 5 December 2017 00:50 (six years ago) link
daily stormer style/content guide leaked, horrifying stuff that's not that surprising really
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/daily-stormer-nazi-style-guide_us_5a2ece19e4b0ce3b344492f2?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:05 (six years ago) link
also of note, Cernovich trying to frame a prominent Democratic Senator for sexual assault, which I think is kind of a big crime
― frogbs, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:12 (six years ago) link
Dude's really having a stellar week, his appearance on On The Media was hilarious.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:15 (six years ago) link
the one where he said "I DISAVOW YOUR INTERPRETATION" and then hung up? that was so brutal.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:17 (six years ago) link
ya i lost it
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:20 (six years ago) link
Charlottesville's #1 alt-right asshole Jason Kessler has been denied a permit for a planned 2018 rally (a repeat of last summer's)
http://www.newsplex.com/content/news/Permits-for-events-in-August-2018-denied-463474093.html
the Paradox Of Intolerance in action!
― sleeve, Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:25 (six years ago) link
huh yeah steranko is nothing more than yr typical egg avatar twitter dipshit you see replying to every trump tweek :/
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/11/08/jim-steranko-wants-vote-trump/
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 13 December 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
I saw on Twitter the Chuck Johnson, the floor-shitting ginger bear, aided and abetted Cernovich in trying to frame Schumer, is that true?
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, 14 December 2017 10:19 (six years ago) link
That's what frogbs was talking about above, I think:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-cernovich-chuck-johnson-alt-right-hyped-anti-schumer-forgery-that-plagiarized-conyers-complaint
“The claims in this document are completely false, my signature is forged, and even basic facts about me are wrong,” the former staffer said in a statement. “I have contacted law enforcement to determine who is responsible. I parted with Senator Schumer’s office on good terms and have nothing but the fondest memories of my time there.”
Indeed, elements of the fake complaint against Schumer appear to have been lifted verbatim from a real sexual harassment lawsuit against Conyers. That complaint was unearthed by BuzzFeed—after Cernovich, a right-wing media personality, provided them with documents from a second, similar complaint against Conyers.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 14 December 2017 11:10 (six years ago) link
these guys are doing a great job of showing the journalistic diligence of the media outlets they hate
that the diligence which keeps tripping them up is literally the least a decent journalist should so when someone brings them a story really demonstrates what fucking idiots they are
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 December 2017 12:19 (six years ago) link
fucking hell at this tho:
Cernovich is emblematic of the media's challenge: Though he sometimes pushes baseless conspiracy theories, Cernovich occasionally produces real scoops.
'yeah he might be a nazi, a rapist and a liar but sometimes he accidentally stumbles across a story!'
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 December 2017 12:26 (six years ago) link
It's a fair point - if he was always a clown, he'd be easier to dismiss.
(where's the line from though - it doesn't seem to be in the article I linked?)
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 14 December 2017 12:33 (six years ago) link
sorry, it's from the wapo article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/13/false-accusations-against-schumer-are-the-latest-attempt-to-trick-the-media/?utm_term=.f4900730da67
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 December 2017 12:35 (six years ago) link
(i got my open tabs mixed up)
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 December 2017 12:36 (six years ago) link
https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-fields-jrs-murder-charges-upgraded-to-first-degree-in-heather-heyers-death
― sleeve, Thursday, 14 December 2017 22:51 (six years ago) link
So has anyone actually read the angela nagle book? and is it any good? It looks super interesting but the whole "the-tumblr-left-is-dangerous" thesis attached to it is kinda concerning (though maybe she actually has a good argument? i guess i'd need to read it to find out)
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Monday, 18 December 2017 06:31 (six years ago) link
that angle is so overblown itt and in criticism of the book. the book is just unsubstantial, far too short to do any of its subjects justice, it's littered with typos, and it has the depth of a wikipedia article. no insight from nagle, really.
― flappy bird, Monday, 18 December 2017 06:50 (six years ago) link
flappy bird otm. the central thesis of the book, that transgression isn't inherently leftist but can be made sexy and appealing against a dominant liberal order too, is strong but unfortunately it's got a bunch of other bad writing and questionable comparisons. she's pretty sharp in interviews and explains her points a bit better i think, maybe just listen to one of the many podcasts she's been on. don't think she's as evil as everyone says she is but she can be a bit needlessly cruel.
― oiocha, Monday, 18 December 2017 07:02 (six years ago) link
Write so much as a horoscope column for Spiked and you're on WTO Rules for benefit of the doubt afaic
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 18 December 2017 11:42 (six years ago) link
yeah, I wd not treat any of them as acting in good faith without extensive evidence
― all this youthless booty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 December 2017 11:46 (six years ago) link
Trying to imagine what a horoscope column for Spiked would consist of: "Stop looking to the stars for guidance, take responsibility for your own actions, are you some sort of weak-willed victim or something?"
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Monday, 18 December 2017 11:59 (six years ago) link
"You will be accused of genocide by a sinister cabal of anti-Stalinists"
― all this youthless booty (Noodle Vague), Monday, 18 December 2017 12:01 (six years ago) link
sort of amazing how Godfrey Bloom has chosen today of all days to start posting anti-semitic conspiracy theories on Twitter
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Monday, 18 December 2017 14:57 (six years ago) link
shocking I know
― Simon H., Monday, 18 December 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
Twitter purge looks to have expanded beyond far-right white groups. Several accounts associated with New Black Panther Party, including main acct @newblackpanthr1, are now suspended.— Will Sommer (@willsommer) December 18, 2017
Cernovich still active? god, Twitter, you suck so much
― frogbs, Monday, 18 December 2017 21:02 (six years ago) link
I read a thing that posited that those who don't get their accounts shut down will incur scrutiny and criticism from the farther-right over being "acceptable" or otherwise somehow compromised by the mainstream.
I can see it, I guess, but fuck them forever anyway.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 18 December 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
I think it was linked in that Sommer thread, actually.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 18 December 2017 21:56 (six years ago) link
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-conservative-nonprofit-that-seeks-to-transform-college-campuses-faces-allegations-of-racial-bias-and-illegal-campaign-activity/amp?__twitter_impression=true
Screenshots provided to me by a source show that Crystal Clanton, who served until last summer as the group’s national field director, sent a text message to another Turning Point employee saying, “I HATE BLACK PEOPLE. Like fuck them all . . . I hate blacks. End of story.”
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 22 December 2017 17:20 (six years ago) link
this looks like a hoot
Imagine paying 500 bucks to see Weird Mike, Milk N Cooks and millennial comedian Dan Nainan. 🤣👌 pic.twitter.com/ZKm64I9una— Victor Bergermeister Meisterberger IV (@VicBergerIV) December 22, 2017
god how much I wanna watch a bunch of alt-right shitheads suffer through an hourlong performance by Dan Nainan
― frogbs, Friday, 22 December 2017 17:32 (six years ago) link
wow Reddit is incredibly good sometimes
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/7liww8/im_mike_cernovich_journalist_author_and_filmmaker/
― frogbs, Friday, 22 December 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
Has anyone here actually been to /r/politics? There's absolutely nothing surprising about this.
― pomenitul, Friday, 22 December 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
Scum:
this is the worst, most heart-rending thing i've ever seen on social media. heather heyer's mom ain't just aware of the bullshit lies spread about her daughter, she's read them herself. https://t.co/LFKlZTZNqx— Asinus Pervicax (@Cato_of_Utica) December 22, 2017
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 22 December 2017 19:45 (six years ago) link
tbh her mom seems like a very centered and focused human, also badass.
― sleeve, Friday, 22 December 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
True.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:04 (six years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRrKYlGV4AAugSa.jpg:small
― mookieproof, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:47 (six years ago) link
[–]PeteIRL 693 points 3 hours ago Hey Mike. You named your book and lifestyle Gorilla Mindset. Why did you choose the only great ape that can't recognise its reflection as itself? And as such, do you attack the man staring back at you when you look in the mirror?
this AMA is so great
― frogbs, Friday, 22 December 2017 20:58 (six years ago) link
man this is the most i've laughed in days. thank u.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 22 December 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
lmaoooo
KonySandusky 605 points 2 hours ago Hi Mike,I first wanted to thank you for your book Gorilla Mindset. It really helped me be a better man and take control of my life in a way that I badly needed. I also wanted to thank you for leading by example regarding how to fight back against people who are trying to put you down.I was wondering if I could ask you a personal question regarding some issues in my life to get some advice from someone who has helped me so much already:I currently am married with a baby and am living in my wife's parents' basement. Our marriage has at times been tense because I tend to be too much of an alpha for her. I feel like there's a chance she's going to leave me in the next year or so, and though I luckily have some alimony money from a previous divorce, I'm afraid that a lot of the unhinged things I've written on the internet will make it difficult to get custody of our baby. Any advice? And if you were me, how would you change my living situation, which is admittedly a bit emasculating?Thanks again for everything!gorillamindset -287 points 2 hours ago Live a good life, starting TODAY. In America, a Christian nation, people will forgive and forget if you give them good reason to. Make a commitment to change the perception people have of you by spreading love and living the Gorilla Mindset way.BackOff_ImAScientist 193 points 2 hours ago Man, you are too dumb to even recognize when someone is obviously making fun of your corny ass and your ridiculous monkey book.
I first wanted to thank you for your book Gorilla Mindset. It really helped me be a better man and take control of my life in a way that I badly needed. I also wanted to thank you for leading by example regarding how to fight back against people who are trying to put you down.
I was wondering if I could ask you a personal question regarding some issues in my life to get some advice from someone who has helped me so much already:
I currently am married with a baby and am living in my wife's parents' basement. Our marriage has at times been tense because I tend to be too much of an alpha for her. I feel like there's a chance she's going to leave me in the next year or so, and though I luckily have some alimony money from a previous divorce, I'm afraid that a lot of the unhinged things I've written on the internet will make it difficult to get custody of our baby. Any advice? And if you were me, how would you change my living situation, which is admittedly a bit emasculating?
Thanks again for everything!
gorillamindset -287 points 2 hours ago Live a good life, starting TODAY. In America, a Christian nation, people will forgive and forget if you give them good reason to. Make a commitment to change the perception people have of you by spreading love and living the Gorilla Mindset way.
BackOff_ImAScientist 193 points 2 hours ago Man, you are too dumb to even recognize when someone is obviously making fun of your corny ass and your ridiculous monkey book.
― frogbs, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
KonySandusky
― mookieproof, Friday, 22 December 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
don't think she's as evil as everyone says she is but she can be a bit needlessly cruel.― oiocha, Monday, December 18, 2017 2:02 AM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― oiocha, Monday, December 18, 2017 2:02 AM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I know we’re having fun making fun of this gorilla man right now but i need to come back to this. Who has been saying angela nagle is “evil” or “ needlessly cruel”?
― treeship 2, Friday, 22 December 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
That book had all kinds of limitations but it’s still the most serious account yet written of the rise of the alt right. I think it’s a serious topic too given that these people are recruiting a new generation of bigots to scorn the basic precepts of democratic society.
― treeship 2, Friday, 22 December 2017 22:54 (six years ago) link
that cernovich ama is the best xmas gift ever
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 December 2017 22:55 (six years ago) link
That was seriously fantastic.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 23 December 2017 00:05 (six years ago) link
i don’t think i can embed the video here but this clip of cernovich insisting he didn’t get owned on reddit before refusing to cry over spilled milk is fucking hilarious
― dipso inferno (bizarro gazzara), Saturday, 23 December 2017 13:25 (six years ago) link
THREAD: Inside the fascinating world of the Far-Right dorks who call themselves “Groypers.” pic.twitter.com/sqOLvdkKfi— Respectable Lawyer (@RespectableLaw) December 27, 2017
― Google Murray Blockchain (kingfish), Thursday, 28 December 2017 11:39 (six years ago) link
Editor's comments on Milo's book
I went to the New York county clerk’s website and found this filing. It includes the entire manuscript with allllllll the editor’s comments as exhibit B. https://t.co/fb9yptldbO— Sarah Mei (@sarahmei) December 28, 2017
― Frederik B, Thursday, 28 December 2017 13:18 (six years ago) link
I still think I want to fall on the 'not reading it' side, even if I miss out on milo getting humiliated.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Thursday, 28 December 2017 14:02 (six years ago) link
those comments are great but also apply to everything he's ever said or done so the shame is still on them for ever even preparing to give him a book deal, imo
― Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 28 December 2017 14:09 (six years ago) link
that Groypers thread
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 28 December 2017 15:25 (six years ago) link
Exactly. Shame on S&S for commissioning it in the first place.
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, 28 December 2017 15:30 (six years ago) link
Feel like this frog stuff could get pretty recursive, with an even fatter frog cartoon coming along in a few months for the even more insanely racist shut-in fringe of this groper lot, and so on ad infinitumy
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 28 December 2017 15:32 (six years ago) link
Yummy yummy yummyI got love in my infinitumy
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 28 December 2017 15:33 (six years ago) link
i hate that these people like vaporwave
― treeship 2, Thursday, 28 December 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
Exactly. Shame on S&S for commissioning it in the first place.― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:30 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:30 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
that's my take away.. 'let us help you cloak your vile racist bullshit so we can sell some books'
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 28 December 2017 16:30 (six years ago) link
^though at the same time kinda clueless about its appeal? Like no Milo fan wants him to dial back the insults and egomania.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 28 December 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
Might be time for milo to launder his img by doing a few avuncular documentaries about classic railway journeys for bbc4
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 28 December 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link
(lolbritain deep cut)
stephen fry: the o.g. milo
― imago, Thursday, 28 December 2017 17:23 (six years ago) link
Really smart thread on the Milo manuscript shows how mainstream gatekeepers are laundering fascist and white supremacist ideas to the masses. Also, Jonathan Chait got two positive shout-outs in Milo's book! Congrats Jon! https://t.co/UJGY0uZDwW— sean. 🎅🏽 (@SeanMcElwee) December 28, 2017
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 28 December 2017 17:30 (six years ago) link
He has just been invited as a keynote speaker to the next Visegrad Group conference on the “future of Europe “ fwiw, so there is still someone willing to pay for his insight.
http://europajovojev4.eu/en/#koszonto
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Thursday, 28 December 2017 17:58 (six years ago) link
the thread linked in caek's link is a very effective expose imho
― Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 28 December 2017 20:08 (six years ago) link
Hell, it turns out I even have my own groyper follower, with the totally not-creepy name of “SleepParalysis Groyper”… pic.twitter.com/lMD9CIcUrT— Respectable Lawyer (@RespectableLaw) December 28, 2017
― flappy bird, Friday, 29 December 2017 05:53 (six years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/yeWakc0.jpg
― pplains, Sunday, 7 January 2018 00:16 (six years ago) link
oh my god, i forgot about those kids. jfc
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 7 January 2018 00:57 (six years ago) link
The only thing I see in this photo is how terribly the hem on the big kid's jacket was sewn up. His mom must have really been in a rush!
― fields of salmon, Sunday, 7 January 2018 01:48 (six years ago) link
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Maryland-Catholic-Girls-High-School-Fires-Alt-Right-Teacher-468152783.html
https://twitter.com/Real_Greg_Conte
― how's life, Sunday, 7 January 2018 23:10 (six years ago) link
he looks like a douche these people are so sad
― maura, Monday, 8 January 2018 00:09 (six years ago) link
^^^This is what I feel most of the time. Like, these guys are such sad sack losers, but then I am pretty much fueling why they are so angry. Still, fuck them.
― Yerac, Monday, 8 January 2018 11:08 (six years ago) link
This clown's going to be forced into Hannibal Lecter-style restraints before the end of the first day
UPDATE: A representative for Milo Yiannopoulos confirms that he will now be representing himself in his lawsuit against Simon & Schuster pic.twitter.com/APGJ8opQMy— Ellie Hall (@ellievhall) January 8, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 8 January 2018 19:29 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egz-qV17gtc
― (the blues version in his Broadway show) (crüt), Monday, 8 January 2018 19:32 (six years ago) link
lol, that is spot on
― Karl Malone, Monday, 8 January 2018 22:09 (six years ago) link
this fuckin guy
Controversial far-right commentator Milo Yiannopoulos has used a spoof story published by a satirical website to slam feminism and the NHS on his YouTube channel.The former Simon Langton Grammar pupil laughed as he read verbatim the story which jokingly describes a man suing the NHS for not being offered a smear test on grounds of discrimination. He told his followers, who hail mainly from America, "I am going to read a news story – I have checked this out, I promise this is real, I have not just made this up.”The story features the entirely fictional character Nathan Grange-Vulva - a fairtrade coffee shop owner and men’s rights activist from Leigh-On-Sea who was awarded £150,000 in compensation and legal costs after being denied the routine exam.Yiannopoulos, 33, ranted: “It makes me feel furious as a British taxpayer.”
The former Simon Langton Grammar pupil laughed as he read verbatim the story which jokingly describes a man suing the NHS for not being offered a smear test on grounds of discrimination.
He told his followers, who hail mainly from America, "I am going to read a news story – I have checked this out, I promise this is real, I have not just made this up.”
The story features the entirely fictional character Nathan Grange-Vulva - a fairtrade coffee shop owner and men’s rights activist from Leigh-On-Sea who was awarded £150,000 in compensation and legal costs after being denied the routine exam.
Yiannopoulos, 33, ranted: “It makes me feel furious as a British taxpayer.”
― grim-n-gritty hooty reboot (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 21:41 (six years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/19/channel-4-calls-in-security-experts-after-cathy-newman-suffers-online-abuse
Cathy Newman of Channel 4 is apparently being targeted by a bunch of alt-right dorks after her 30-minute interview with Jordan Peterson.
De Pear said on Twitter on Friday: “Our Channel 4 News on-screen journalists expect to be held to account for their journalism but the level of vicious misogynistic abuse, nastiness, and threat to Cathy Newman is an unacceptable response to a robust and engaging debate with Jordan Peterson.“Such is the scale of threat, we are having to get security specialists in to carry out an analysis. I will not hesitate to get the police involved if necessary. What a terrible indictment of the times we live in.”
“Such is the scale of threat, we are having to get security specialists in to carry out an analysis. I will not hesitate to get the police involved if necessary. What a terrible indictment of the times we live in.”
All of which begs the question as to why they’re giving Peterson such a huge platform in the first place. There is next to no chance that anyone aligned with his views is going to watch a robust interview and change their mind (the article references James Delingpole and Douglas Murray crowing about how he ran rings around her) and has just ended up ostensibly endangering the journalist. It seems massively irresponsible either way to continue to give them the oxygen of publicity.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Saturday, 20 January 2018 07:41 (six years ago) link
Peterson is showing himself to be an opportunist with no principles willing to cater to whatever crowd or denominator will pledge money to his Patreon. He's not an ideologue, but when your audience is sending death threats to your 'enemies' and you turn your head, what's the difference? I think maybe a year ago, the average Peterson follower had a much more open mind. Now it's just a joke.
― flappy bird, Saturday, 20 January 2018 23:33 (six years ago) link
It's a small world after all.
By far the most surprising guest here at the @Cernovich event: Chelsea Manning!— Charlie Warzel (@cwarzel) January 21, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 21 January 2018 04:12 (six years ago) link
“I was standing outside MERGE looking through the photos I’d taken, when a young woman in a blue hoodie came up to me,” Sarsfield said. “She asked if I’d taken photos of her boyfriend. I asked her if her boyfriend was the one putting up the white supremacist stickers.”“She said, ‘Yes,’ and that he’d called her saying he was in MERGE. She said she wanted me to delete the photos, because this whole thing was traumatic for them,” Sarsfield recalled. “She said he’s not a racist, he just likes to do these things to get a rise out of people.”Sure. The Pepe hoodie is a nice touch. http://littlevillagemag.com/man-puts-up-pro-white-stickers-on-the-ped-mall-during-the-womens-march-then-tries-to-hide-in-merge/
― maura, Sunday, 21 January 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link
spending money to own the libs!!!!
― maura, Sunday, 21 January 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
My first thought was why are Channel 4 running a half hour interview with some American dickhead I've never heard of?
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 January 2018 15:46 (six years ago) link
he’s canadian
― maura, Sunday, 21 January 2018 15:59 (six years ago) link
Well, there you go.
― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Sunday, 21 January 2018 16:16 (six years ago) link
I'd never heard of peterson before but I'm sure he will get more coverage in the uk on the back of that interview, ppl were pretty angry at how badly newman handled him
― ogmor, Sunday, 21 January 2018 19:37 (six years ago) link
Speaking of, here’s Shuja Haider trying to figure WTF is up with Peterson and why he’s banging on about postmodernism alla time.
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 23:16 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Saturday, January 20, 2018 3:33 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he literally started his media appearances, public events, and patreon as a result of becoming widely known for a video of him telling trans students that he wouldn't use gender neutral pronouns. he has only ever had one very specific, very white, very male, and very young crowd
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 23:20 (six years ago) link
This seems to be his response to the attacks on Newman:
Peterson, who is interviewed in today’s Observer magazine, said that when he became aware of the abuse allegations he “immediately tweeted ‘if you’re one of those people doing that, back off’, there’s no excuse for that, no utility’.”He said the experience had left him trying to put himself in Newman’s position. “There is no doubt that Cathy has been subjected to a withering barrage of criticism online. One of the things I’ve been trying to do is to try to imagine what I’d do if I found myself in her situation and how I would react to it and understand how it was happening. But they’ve provided no evidence that the criticisms constituted threats. There are some nasty cracks online but the idea that this is somehow reflective of a fundamental misogyny and that’s what’s driving this is ridiculous.”
He said the experience had left him trying to put himself in Newman’s position. “There is no doubt that Cathy has been subjected to a withering barrage of criticism online. One of the things I’ve been trying to do is to try to imagine what I’d do if I found myself in her situation and how I would react to it and understand how it was happening. But they’ve provided no evidence that the criticisms constituted threats. There are some nasty cracks online but the idea that this is somehow reflective of a fundamental misogyny and that’s what’s driving this is ridiculous.”
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jan/21/no-excuse-for-online-abuse-says-professor-in-tv-misogyny-row
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 23:33 (six years ago) link
Peterson is a bigot, a con artist, and a clown but that Viewpoint magazine article is basicslly gaslighting him about Derrida. Deconstruction was most certainly not based on some neutral phenomenological observation about how meaning is generated. By positing marginalization at the center of his model of language Derrida was making a political statement. Not a Marxist one or even a progressive one, but definitely casting his lot on the side of the marginalized, and claiming marginalization was necessary to all semantic and/or sociopolitical strucutres, and trying to enact through his critical pracis a return of the repressed (cf. “Archive Fever” his book on Freud). This kind of logic totally lies at the root of contemporary social justice discourse, whatever you tjink of it.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:27 (six years ago) link
*think
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:28 (six years ago) link
*praxis
So many typos
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:29 (six years ago) link
I think Derrida is an extremely interesting theorist but in studying him I did come to think his work pointed ultimately to a kind of nihilism — albeit one that has an egalitarian core. People who want to defend lofty ideals like democracy or liberalism are right to be wary of him. Chait and Chomsky are not unconsciously repeating some ignorant trope about “cultural marxism” or whatever when they complain about the impact of french theory in the academy. It’s not a misunderstanding.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:34 (six years ago) link
In actual fact, Derrida’s work was rooted in constant dialogue with the history of Western philosophy. He was a classical philosophical scholar, often presenting detailed and rigorous research on figures like Plato, Hegel, and Rousseau. His conversance with European thought extended into the 20th century as well.
This makes Derrida sound like a 7th grader.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:47 (six years ago) link
Some of us went to shitty schools but I get yr point
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 00:50 (six years ago) link
"Derrida drew on a wide range of influences, especially Friedrich Nietzsche and Sigmund Freud, both thinkers Peterson deems acceptable, as well as Martin Heidegger. Applying their skeptical outlook to the phenomenology and structuralism in which he had achieved mastery, Derrida was able to interrogate these methods from within."
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 09:23 (six years ago) link
Yeah, he “interrogated” the canon the way Nietzsche did—pointing his crtical guns as what he saw as its most vulnerable points. And no one would write an article claiming that people who have a serious problem with Nietzsche are just crazy and reading dark implications into texts that are really quite reasonable and not trying to fuck with your deepest convictions at all actually.
Besides, it’s inaccurate to say that Derrida “engaged” with all the texts he deconstructed. His critical method was more oblique. He’d focus on seemingly incidental features of the text to demonstrate that their rhetoric was really quite fragile—that even the most complex philosophical argument hinged on a series of prejudices. This is why he was so maddening to argue with. (Foucualt’s “obscurantism terrorism” line.)
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 12:25 (six years ago) link
I don’t think Derrida is evil and I don’t agree with Peterson but I do think he was a radical thinker and that his influence has been considerable and that his work invites/demands a atrong counteratgument and these are things the article seemed to want to sidestep. Instead of mounting a defense of the critical tradition represented by Derrida they try to defend Derrida’s respectability.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 12:36 (six years ago) link
I've liked what I read of Derrida, in part because of it's radicality, and I would quite honestly love to revive the Derrida-thread and have that discussion with you in more detail. I just don't think it has that much to do with the article and Jordan Peterson. I'm not sure how respectable Derrida looks in that article, or if it's even the aim, the aim is to show he was not a cultural marxist, and not even really a postmodernist either. Derrida himself said it was born to a large extent out of 68. And the thing with Petersons bullshit is that it mixes all the radicalness into a scary whole - with an antisemitic past - without bothering to search for the historical situation he wrote against. And that kinda goes for Chait and Chomsky as well, though not to the same extent. It's easy to say it goes against 'democracy' and 'liberalism', but it is to a large extent born from very real failures of those two ideals.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 13:06 (six years ago) link
I know this is reductive but I take vague complaints about "postmodernism" to just be the new "corrupting the youth of Athens" and leave it at that.
― ryan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 18:48 (six years ago) link
― treeship 2, Wednesday, January 24, 2018 4:36 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think you're nitpicking a little, the salient point is that derrida is not an anti-western philosophy guy, he's actually more engaged with and more well-versed in the western canon than just about anyone you might care to claim, including peterson himself, or any of the pseudo intellectuals of the alt-right!
also while he's influential in academia, more literature than philosophy no? the idea that his ideas are literally the motivating factor behind the chaos of the world, as peterson sees it, i.e. transgenderism, feminism, socialism, is ludicrous. just ime most of the woke social justice warrior types i know personally are generally against "postmodernist" thought or completely ignorant of it.
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 19:28 (six years ago) link
(more likely to be marxists, anarchists, etc.)
Yeah, the dumbest bits of this is just his received conspiracy theory conflating “post-modernism” and “(((Cultural Marxism)))” together
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:17 (six years ago) link
just ime most of the woke social justice warrior types i know personally are generally against "postmodernist" thought or completely ignorant of it.(more likely to be marxists, anarchists, etc.)
I'm not a humanities or social science scholar but it does seem to me that the people who are really into things like contemporary critical race theory, post-colonial cultural criticism, or queer musicology are working from a pov that's fairly different from (and in some ways opposed to) a classical Marxist analysis, right?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:44 (six years ago) link
I'm not a humanities or social science scholar
Unless music theory counts as "humanities or social sciences". It probably does.
Derrida wasn't really interesting in founding a prescriptive political program so much as describing the sort of "abyssal decision" that goes into the founding of such political (or ethical) programs. He wants to hold them open, accountable. Kinda of Weberian insistence on the fundamental irrationality of all value judgements--not in the service of nihilism but a kind futurity or fundamental openness.
Foucault fits better with the SJW ethos, particularly his late work on subjectivity (I think?), but he'd be resistant to any consistent political program as well due to the aforementioned insistence on radical subjectivity.
― ryan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:54 (six years ago) link
If I had to try to give maximum generosity to Peterson here, the idea of "intersectionality" might seem to inherently require a quasi-postmodern rejection of the Marxist metanarrative focused on economic class struggle as the chief determinant of historical development, treating it instead as one micronarrative of oppression and liberation, alongside race, oppression of women, gender identity, disability, etc., and re-centring subjective experience. xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 21:59 (six years ago) link
(Just brainstorming; again, not an expert with this)
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:01 (six years ago) link
(I sometimes think one useful way to think about Derrida is that he accomplished a final split between Reason as foundational or as a grounding of value judgments as and Reason as a endless critical process. Foucault points out something similar in his "What is Enlightenment?" essay. If postmodernism means anything with these two it might refer to their acceptance of that split.)
― ryan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:01 (six years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, January 24, 2018 1:44 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes, this is true, they are often also epistemologically indebted to post-structuralism. but if i were to take e.g. post-colonial studies (the only one of these you've mentioned that I've read much of) there's a lot of ink been shed from that field distancing itself from these other, prior post-isms
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:03 (six years ago) link
this is something i'm interested in bc when i was reading foucault back in the day i thought that his points were generally that power is bidirectional and that power is many things (knowledge, sex, discipline), but it seems like he has become somehow metonymic for a critique that often unidirectional and i wonder to what extent does he truly resist that description or is that the inevitable conclusion from his work. i just don't know his entire oeuvre well enough to say but i suspect he's mostly being misused?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:10 (six years ago) link
I don't know what it is but I've always had a hard time getting a handle on Foucault's overall project. Lee Braver's "A Thing of This World" I remember being very enlightening but I've forgotten it mostly lol.
― ryan, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link
in my experience on the ground the use of any of these philosophers tends to be ad hoc and used as shorthand background authority rather than explicit engagement w/ whatever political project is claiming the thinker. so figuring out whether foucault's ideas are truly buttressing the cause is maybe a waste of time from the get go and anyway if you've read enough derrida hopefully you can simultaneously aver the thesis + antithesis in the text.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:28 (six years ago) link
Trolling r/philosophy for replies:
my work here is done pic.twitter.com/tzqxL50DFc— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) January 24, 2018
less flattering reddit comment that does accurately summarize my feelings on jung pic.twitter.com/Rat75uvp4j— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) January 24, 2018
I'm also enjoying that pretty much the whole thread for it on the philosophy subreddit looks like this pic.twitter.com/mfdi7cNDWI— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) January 24, 2018
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:30 (six years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), 24. januar 2018 22:59 (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I mean, as the article says, the foundational text about 'The Postmodern Condition' is all about the lack of metanarratives, so yeah.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:32 (six years ago) link
I did know that; I was just trying to see a way in which "postmodern neo-Marxism" could make some kind of sense as a description for what I think JP is trying to describe.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:38 (six years ago) link
Jack Posobiec tells me the Bumble account purporting to be him that got some attention today is fake: "Everyone knows I have a hot Eastern European wife and we just got married."— Will Sommer (@willsommer) January 24, 2018
yesssssssss
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:42 (six years ago) link
i.e. the contemporary intersectional/identity-oriented left, esp in academia, which applies a sort of 'class struggle' model but thinks it is wrong to look one single type of class, or apply a single overarching objective analytical pov, to the exclusion of others. (That said, Peterson still casts his net far too wide.)
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
it's really not these thinker's fault if activists decide their work is useful to their project. it's like political claims on the bible - you see what you want to see esp when writers are intentionally layering meaning, obscuring, contradicting, etc.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:49 (six years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), 24. januar 2018 23:38 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And you're otm :) A lot again has to do with 68, imo. The idea that this narrative of French Revolutions, from 1789 onwards, has been thwarted, and everyone needs to figure out what to do next. Seven different types of maoists shouting at each other at the exact same time Mao was at his most murderous. A need to look elsewhere all of a sudden, be it to the third world or back in the past, or to marginalized groups.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:56 (six years ago) link
this Twitter thread confirms what I kinda figured was true - these guys and gals are massive shitheads but they're more driven by fame than dreams of a white ethnostate
Thread on the @xychelsea shitstorm. First, read this: https://t.co/noDse7rPU3— Contra 🌸 (@ContraPoints) January 24, 2018
― frogbs, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
Peterson doesn't appear to be very well read. His entire shtick consists of strawmanning the shit out of the left from the vantage point of his media-fueled position as a learnèd, heroic scholar who dares shake academia's ivory foundations by telling it like it is, thus submitting his ideas to the democratic court of populist opinion rather than that of his elitist peers. This is not a bad thing in and of itself, but it requires an acute sense of responsibility, one that is conspicuously lacking in his case, since he systematically paints his adversaries as dangerous obfuscators – an easy charge in a playing field defined by its carnivalesque 'gotcha' moments and worship of 'common sense'. Steven Pinker tends to do this as well so it may just be a common trait among so-called 'public' intellectuals.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
Derrida does have a lot to do with contemporary social justice discourse though. Way more than Marx does. Derrida’s “big idea,” putting it as crudely as possible, is that identity is constituted in difference, that the process of differing/deferring proceeds by acts of violence and exclusion as one term becomes dominant and the other subordinate, and that therefore the critical examination of any concept should begin with an attempt to uncover this originaty moment of violence. This seems really similar to, say, microaggression theory—this hyperattentiveness to language that carried within itself the stain of history, which it reproduces unconsciously as it continually remakes the world. I can’t say for sure but I think Derrida’s work probably had a lot to do with the way progressives think about language and history today even if they don’t know it.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:33 (six years ago) link
There are typos and tense errors in there but still. Derrida’s work is as powerful as Nietzsche’s or Marx’s in that it demands a kind of reckoning — once you “see things” as he saw them it’s hard for a while to unsee it. As a meme I think the kind of structure of his thought had a big impact. And he’s an unnerving writer to read too because if you think like he does you can never “affirm” anything, because concepts are in flux, and they are always already in the process of becoming their opposite. (I can’t really describe how this works, but it is one of his big ideas. Martin Hagglund is good on this — the co-implication of opposites, death is constitutive of life, etc.) All of this presents challenges to the western project of trying to ground beliefs in something solid, human freedom or reason or earlier on God or whatever.
He deserves a better class of critic than Peterson thouh.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:41 (six years ago) link
I guess my main issue is like, duh, the idea of a postmodern neo-marxist cabal is conspiratorial and idiotic. But I also think ideas matter and when people say that the radical skepticism of Derrida can be corrosive to institutions, even if only humanities departments, I don’t think they’re necessarily being “crazy.” I don’t think Derrida would find them crazy either. As Frederik said, Derrida’s thought came out of a crisis.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:47 (six years ago) link
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:50 (six years ago) link
Also the alt right thread is the perfect forum for this discussion. The left should try to understand its own intellectual genealogy if they want to refute the fake versions the alt right proffers.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:53 (six years ago) link
Undecidability, aporia, the pharmakon: all of these 'concepts' (barely concepts, if we go by his philosophy) are frankly disquieting when taken seriously (which they should be). This undermines both Peterson and his nemeses, which is why very few are willing to take up Derrida's mantle today.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:53 (six years ago) link
There's nothing angelically ethical about his take on difference, either, which is shot through with strangeness and uncanniness (see his beef with Levinas, re: violence). And yet, in spite of that, he advocates hospitality. Ethics for with the acknowledgment that it is grounded on groundlessness, that if there is no risk gestures of welcome are meaningless.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:57 (six years ago) link
*Ethics starts with
It's typo night.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:58 (six years ago) link
Fun with Tucker Carlson:
Tucker Carlson wishes someone would let him know what a “white nationalist” is and how he qualifies. I gave it a shot: pic.twitter.com/BzW7iYBiBp— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) January 24, 2018
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Thursday, 25 January 2018 00:37 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhdEbOzcN1U
― flappy bird, Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:14 (six years ago) link
It’s kinda funny seeing these high falutin criticisms of Peterson when his core audience is like 15 year old boys
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 25 January 2018 03:56 (six years ago) link
Schadenfreude today: prominent alt-righter with a pregnant wife tries to use feminist dating app, gets dunked onhttps://www.fastcompany.com/40521433/bumble-bans-alt-right-darling-jack-pobosiec-in-a-very-public-way
― Millennial Whoop, wanna fight about it? (Phil D.), Thursday, 25 January 2018 04:13 (six years ago) link
looool
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 25 January 2018 05:44 (six years ago) link
white supremacists are always the best argument against their own ideologies
― maura, Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:22 (six years ago) link
just tremendous opsec from a guy with 'veteran navy intel officer' in his twitter bio
― your skeleton is ready to hatch (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 25 January 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
'incel officer' more like amirite
Peterson is posting on twitter in barely concealed accounts again:
https://www.twitter.com/WeeEgalitarian/status/957873627311038465
https://www.twitter.com/shujaxhaider/status/957949776129155072
https://www.twitter.com/ETZithrow/status/958052099752939520
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Monday, 29 January 2018 21:25 (six years ago) link
corny. these people are all so fuckin corny before you even consider their ass opinions
― maura, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 03:27 (six years ago) link
https://alternativeright.hopenothate.com/my-year-inside-the-international-alt-right
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 17:20 (six years ago) link
In march, spencer is coming to speak at the university where I work. He either threatened or actually pursued legal action and they capitulated. Since they had to give him a venue, he will speak in what is essentially the ag school cow barn at the ass-end of campus, on the Monday of Spring Break week when nobody will be around.
I'm already seeing tons of flyers, ranging from "we should meet at the library to talk about the impact of this" to a number rather large posters about attacking a group of nazi marchers in 2006 and running them out of town and how they can't wait to do it again.
This should be fun. I'm kind of glad I'll be out of town.
― joygoat, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
There was still a local ARA chapter when I was there, of course that was almost 20 years ago. Here's hoping they're still around.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 19:08 (six years ago) link
lmao @ "Hope Not Hate" and the "alternative right" (didn't read the actual piece tbf)
― Simon H., Tuesday, 30 January 2018 19:11 (six years ago) link
many xps. I'm reading derrida and foucault again because of this thread <3 thank you, jordan peterson. you kermit-voiced sack of albertan shit
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link
wtf i love jordan peterson now
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 19:44 (six years ago) link
its been over a week since ive let everyone who helped me out of prison down, so many of you have helped me thru tough times, i tried too hard to do too much, im sorry im a human being and not a symbol, i have hit rock bottom— Chelsea E. Manning (@xychelsea) January 30, 2018
Chelsea Manning not feeling too great about hanging with the fash
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 19:51 (six years ago) link
In all seriousness, though, everyone should check out Derrida's seminars. Due to their self-evidently pedagogical and oral nature, they're more idea-oriented and hence more approachable (as well as more easily translatable into English). They're also more explicitly 'political' than many might expect, giving the lie to the all-too widespread, quasi indestructible notion according to which he never seriously engaged with anything beyond philosophy and, at best, literature.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 20:01 (six years ago) link
sorta tangent to peterson's fame i really fuckin hate the centrist anti-left crew and their wounded/smug act: the weinstein brothers, sam harris, quillette mag.
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 20:56 (six years ago) link
haidt, maher, chait, ~sullivan fit that description too.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:11 (six years ago) link
yup. chait didn't used to, i didn't think! but maybe he did.
there's the feminist-not-feminist annex too: paglia, sommers, roiphe
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:23 (six years ago) link
paglia is too weird to be in this group imo
― Mordy, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:24 (six years ago) link
yea camille paglia does not fit but sommers & roiphe are def in there
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:26 (six years ago) link
what's infuriating is how content-free their politics are. it's all meta concepts like open discourse and closed mindedness and group thinking and hard reason but... there's no meat.
like, what do you want the world to be? what do you want to say that (you say) you can't say now? make a list of 25 live issues at work in this country, or any country, and none of these people will have said anything about them. voting? climate change? war? (ok we know what harris thinks about war...) financialization? (one of the weinsteins works for peter thiel lol) worker rights? abortion rights? there's n o t h i n g
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:27 (six years ago) link
these are the only people left who care about paglia!
there's an essay to be written about the fetishization of live debate across the right wing: this set ^ of people, the alt-lite youtube scene, ben shapiro
shuja haider wrote that great piece of JP, most of the angry replies were "you couldn't take him on live, i dare you" or that like, writing everything down in a essay was... cheating somehow? against the rules? oddly authoritarian impulse. it has to be a match with rules and if you lose you have to stay down! or something
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:31 (six years ago) link
wrong, also fans do not condemn the person. camille paglia talks about her views all the time, she's written thousands of pages about art and literature and history
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:44 (six years ago) link
i know, it's a shame
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:45 (six years ago) link
just replace paglia in yr annex w/ caitlin flanagan
is jon stewart somehow culpable for the "reasonable moderate"?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:47 (six years ago) link
Nah
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:54 (six years ago) link
maybe a bit. can we blame capitalism? i feel like we should blame capitalism
― goole, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 21:58 (six years ago) link
no lets blame the daily show
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 22:14 (six years ago) link
"lets"... ugh. sorry #groupthink
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 22:15 (six years ago) link
About the diaper-clad shitheads in TPUSA
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 2 February 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link
https://thebaffler.com/the-poverty-of-theory/no-re-turning-point-u-s-a
a chilling must-read; thanks.
― Righteous wax chaperone, rotating Wingdings (Doctor Casino), Friday, 2 February 2018 00:41 (six years ago) link
I keep waiting to encounter these guys on campus
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 2 February 2018 04:13 (six years ago) link
They hit the northeast and Big Ten schools, right? So it’s just a matter of time
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 2 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/02/jordan-peterson-enlightenment-nietzsche-alt-right
This is a much, much better/more incisive takedown of Peterson than the other two pieces that have been shared here.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:13 (six years ago) link
Everyone who writes these JP takedown pieces gets absolutely pilloried with death threats and insults online and I thank them for their service
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
This is the only good one. It gets to the heart of why he is wrong and doesn’t go for a cheap caricature.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:17 (six years ago) link
After Stalinism crumbled, the old Marxism continued in the guise of what Peterson calls “neo-Marxist postmodernism.” Like Nietzsche before him, Peterson sees the metaphysics of reason, as embodied in the Enlightenment project and modern socialism, leading inexorably toward relativistic nihilism. Nietzsche called this condition “passive nihilism” and argued that it could only be overcome with an “active nihilism” that would create a new system of values based on new modes of slavery and mastery. When Peterson criticizes “neo-Marxist postmodernism,” he is merely repeating Nietzsche’s diagnosis of passive nihilism — that is, the slavish revolt of the masses.Peterson’s positivism — the dualism between descriptive facts and values — makes his Nietzscheanism possible. If the world is an atomized chaos of facts, it needs a strong will to define it and impose order. In Peterson’s need for something that transcends this chaotic reality, he subjectively imposes a mystical solution for the alienation and suffering of humanity, grounded in a Nietzschean version of Christianity and original sin. The strong will inherit the kingdom of heaven, while the weak are destined to fail.When we theoretically confront Peterson, we need to do more than refute his pseudo-scientific claims, his bad pop psychology, and his Cold War–inflected version of history. The real challenge is overcoming his fundamental irrationalism.
Peterson’s positivism — the dualism between descriptive facts and values — makes his Nietzscheanism possible. If the world is an atomized chaos of facts, it needs a strong will to define it and impose order. In Peterson’s need for something that transcends this chaotic reality, he subjectively imposes a mystical solution for the alienation and suffering of humanity, grounded in a Nietzschean version of Christianity and original sin. The strong will inherit the kingdom of heaven, while the weak are destined to fail.
When we theoretically confront Peterson, we need to do more than refute his pseudo-scientific claims, his bad pop psychology, and his Cold War–inflected version of history. The real challenge is overcoming his fundamental irrationalism.
I don't know. I don't think you need to deploy hifalutin academic language to explain why his ideas are bad and wrong.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link
I'd like to read that, but I've recently come to the conclusion that spending too much time reading/debunking bad ideas actually makes you stupider in the long run. It's like a virus that can infect your own thinking.
― ryan, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
(I'm using "bad" in distinction from just simply "wrong," there.)
― ryan, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:25 (six years ago) link
There is, like, a neo-reaction movement going on. If the ideas are never seriously refuted they’ll get stronger and more popular — the intellectual “forbidden fruit” the left won’t touch even to critique.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:28 (six years ago) link
I'm glad there's an intellectual critique, I just don't imagine JP's chud squad engaging with it.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:31 (six years ago) link
They already think the postmodern neo-marxists (lol) are out to drain them of their vital essence, so why should they listen to some Jacobin pinko?
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:32 (six years ago) link
Maybe, but that's a very optimistic conception of intellectual discourse!
But yes people are welcome to it.
― ryan, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:32 (six years ago) link
Idk these ppl are theoretically reading carl jung and solzhenitsyn now that jp has turned them onto them
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
I would like to see JP get absolutely bodied in an interview the way spencer was a couple months ago. (I wouldn't mind a literal bodying either, but that would be purely for self-satisfaction.)
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:34 (six years ago) link
"theoretically" is doing a lot of work there, and you're assuming they're capable of good-faith argumentation. the important thing to them is that JP is their dad. the only solution is public humiliation and/or convincing advocacy for a more humane and compassionate alternative.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:35 (six years ago) link
Somehow Jordan Peterson shouts about Derrida without ever having read a single line of his, and it seems to work anyway?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:39 (six years ago) link
Plus ça change…
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
A lot of bullshit rhetorical moves “work” but I like to have my own independent standards.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
Yet apparently you were fine with Cornel West's bullshit takedown of Ta-Nehisi Coates. It's striking the difference in incisiveness you demand in how people attack Jordan Peterson and Coates.
I agree that we should try and understand the new alt-right, I'm in a study-group in Copenhagen to try and do so myself, but some of it is quite simply fraudsters, and there's no need to treat them on their own terms. The important texts about them are created just as much by their victims, or in all honesty by the old philosophers who described the exact same kind of right-wing fraudster in their day - Lyotard is splendid on Holocaust denial in The Differend - and who the new fraudsters are of course now trying to discredit. The almost mystic 'challenge' described in that Jacobin-essay rubs me the wrong way.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:54 (six years ago) link
It’s probably a mistake to conflate doing philosophy with doing politics
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:55 (six years ago) link
cool now i know whats 'bullshit' and 'bad' and who to body-check. gr8 website
― am0n, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:59 (six years ago) link
I don’t like the implication of this at all. In the West situation I was defending him from the attack that he was an opportunist shouting down young voices for attention rather than an activist and scholar who had serious reservations about the work and influence of a younger colleague. I only defended part of the substance of the critique and never said it was an appropriate or effective intervention. You’re the worst.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:08 (six years ago) link
"Jacobin Pinko" is the name of my Decemberists cover band btw
― I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:17 (six years ago) link
x-post: West clearly didn't read the work he had 'serious reservations about', and the whole point of his piece was to label Coates a neoliberal. It's as clear an example of 'cheap caricature' as could be imagined, and it's almost charitable to imply that the difference in the way you react to this and to caricatures of Peterson has to do with some sort of implicit bias. Otherwise you're a complete moron...
No disrespect.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
Otherwise you're a complete moron...No disrespect.
don't do that, or you look like a total asshole
disrespect intended
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:22 (six years ago) link
TS: Judean People's Front vs. People's Front of Judea.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:25 (six years ago) link
I admitted my potential bias on that thread, which is that I’ve met and interacted with West a bunch of times and didn’t think he was the opportunist people were describing him as, even if the piece was sloppy and looked bad. itt you ads trying to imply I am soft on reactionary guru jordan peterson because I want to see his ideas refuted thoroughly and effectively and it’s not fair and fuck off
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:26 (six years ago) link
Well, yes, I do think seeing the racism and sexism of the alt-right as 'ideas' to be refuted rather than as politics to be fought is being weak on them, no doubt about that. And I'll admit even further, as I've admitted plenty of times recently, that I think this view is mostly found among white men - especially Americans - due to implicit bias. That racism and sexism is something one has to actively believe in, rather than the water we swim in, as Coates writes at one point.
That is, once again, what rubs me the wrong way about the Jacobin piece, the metaphysical nature of Petersons 'irrationalism' and how we have to fight it. The alt-right is really not an interesting new philosophy, there's no there there. It's reheated racism. And it's quite simply not going to be defeated by agreeing with it on it's own terms. Peterson is a shitty academic, who wrote a book about Derrida without reading Derrida. He should be discredited on that level. And that will undoubtedly lead to a bunch of assholes claiming that he is a martyr of political correctness, but that's beside the point. No need to preemptively give him more significance than he has, so that other dudes can't attack us.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:49 (six years ago) link
I think the essential thing about Jordan Petersons 'ideas', much more than any criticism of Derrida or Nietszche, is this:
― Simon H., 6. februar 2018 16:16 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
And yeah, for that I do thank the Jacobin.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:56 (six years ago) link
Wait is am0n a Peterson fan? Lol
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 16:58 (six years ago) link
West is not a hack and deserves a refutation (if you disagree with him) whereas a hack like Peterson just draws you into a game with no real rules. Admittedly, the distinction isn't a precise one but I think everyone has to decide who/what is worth taking seriously. (Nietzsche? Yes! Derrida? Absolutely! Peterson? Nah.) We should start a thread on the general problem of attention but it seems to increasingly be the case that what you decide to pay attention to is almost as important as the kind of attention you pay it.
― ryan, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:06 (six years ago) link
Even creating a framework where Peterson is in some kind of dialogue with the likes of Derrida is ridiculous on its face. And just because it gives you a chance to put that philosophy MA to use doesn't mean it's actually a good use of it.
― ryan, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:13 (six years ago) link
This motherfucker is just an academic Baked Alaska
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:16 (six years ago) link
I think you guys are wrong. This guy has a huge following and he frames his ideas in ways that can seduce people who would be put off by Richard Spencer or whatever. There needs to be high quality refutations of him out there.
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:19 (six years ago) link
Even creating a framework where Peterson is in some kind of dialogue with the likes of Derrida is ridiculous on its face.
― ryan, 6. februar 2018 18:13 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ryan, I wish it wasn't so, but for anyone who has read We Were Eight Years in Power, the same kind of framework is just as ridiculous with West. He got stuff wrong that was literally explained on the first page...
The rest of your posts I agree with.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:21 (six years ago) link
"But his ideas!" Oh fuck off. All this philosophical name dropping and 4chan /p/ circle jerking just so you can excuse your aversion to changing the way you think of pronouns. I hate 2018.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:16 (five minutes ago) Permalink
― The times they are a changing, perhaps (map), Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:31 (six years ago) link
There needs to be high quality refutations of him out there.
I don't disagree, I just don't think alt-right goons are going to be receptive to them.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:35 (six years ago) link
he's just another huckster looking to profit off of disenfranchisement.
i love that Fox News has Jordan Peterson on and just refers to him as "Professor," as if that alone confers legitimacy. it's like that Mr. Show sketch with "Dr. Retarded." pic.twitter.com/dWUjHG5Izf— your friend john (@johnsemley3000) February 6, 2018
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:39 (six years ago) link
i disagree w/ trés. the left needs to do much better intellectual work incl examining the flaws in their own canonical list of philo, but not by combating jp personally but rather by engaging the real philosophers who have and continue to undergird his ideology. jp himself doesn't have much to say but nietzsche still does. schmitt still does. land + moldbug do.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:38 (six years ago) link
saying, "this is nothing new he's just cribbing FN" is missing the pt.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link
again do these philosophers *really* undergird his work or does he just namecheck them to appear intelligent
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:40 (six years ago) link
it doesn't really matter. they have something to say. i'm not talking about political pragmatism - just intellectual integrity. fwiw i'm doing my part reading (and taking notes on) GM. fyi if anyone ever expresses surprise that the nazis liked FN u can tell them that there's no reason to be surprised. nb this prob belongs on a separate thread.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:41 (six years ago) link
oh yeah I think that's worthwhile work on its own, just not trying to weaponize it against JP
― Simon H., Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:43 (six years ago) link
re JP weaponization the current efforts of demonstrating how he doesn't understand the thinkers that oppose or buttress his claims seems sufficient.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 19:46 (six years ago) link
Had to think really hard who FN was, thought it was a FaNcy way of writing FaurrisoN. But FaurrisoN liked nazis, not the other way around. Get it now, but what is GM?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 21:53 (six years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodnight_Moon
― treeship 2, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:10 (six years ago) link
Oh, right. Mordy, if it's tough to get through, they did readings from it on The Wire, fyi.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
Genealogy of Morals, I assume
― rob, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 22:42 (six years ago) link
how do you fight the chaos sex dragon man
― ogmor, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 10:23 (six years ago) link
How's Milo Yiannopoulos's attempt to represent himself in a lawsuit going? Oh... pic.twitter.com/00ZdYwWl1Q— Will Sommer (@willsommer) February 7, 2018
― "Taste's very strange!" (stevie), Thursday, 8 February 2018 08:21 (six years ago) link
― Frederik B
i haven't been able to successfully watch the wire myself
being able to frame toxic ideas in a manner which is superficially appealing and seems to "make sense" is certainly extremely dangerous, as we've seen and continue to see. though it's important to objectively point out the flaws in reasoning and false premises of such people, to nakedly expose the toxic assumptions of the discourse, i don't think this is sufficient to counter such arguments. most people who support peterson aren't thinking logically, they're borrowing the appearance of sophistication to support their prejudices (no wonder david brooks loves him). of course it doesn't matter that peterson hasn't read derrida. the best way of undermining peterson's arguments is to undermine peterson himself. i recommend ad hominem attacks.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 February 2018 13:03 (six years ago) link
flippant thought: consistently refer to it as "it" rather that "he"/"him", with the reasoning that you see no obligation to refer to it by its preferred pronoun :-p
― anatol_merklich, Thursday, 8 February 2018 14:04 (six years ago) link
Do you want to see Jordan Peterson's penis.
Is that what you want.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 8 February 2018 15:12 (six years ago) link
awpretracted
― anatol_merklich, Thursday, 8 February 2018 16:03 (six years ago) link
itshappening.gif
Running for Congress this year.....It's looking like a real possibility.— Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 (@Cernovich) February 8, 2018
― he facked his death (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 9 February 2018 09:46 (six years ago) link
The Baffler takedown of Peterson is dope too.
The strange paradox we face today is that the Enlightenment is being invoked like a talismanic object to thwart the very questioning of political hierarchies and norms that, for Enlightenment thinkers, was necessary for humanity’s emergence from tradition and subordination. But even if the forces of Counter-Enlightenment may have now adapted the language of rationality to their own purposes, authentic Enlightenment thought has never been about building up the bulwark of tradition. As that other British liberal John Stuart Mill wrote, “The despotism of custom is everywhere the standing hindrance to human advancement.” The great figures of the Enlightenment knew that the social and political revolutions of their day were aligned with their thought; there’s a reason that mild-mannered Kant toasted the anniversary of storming of the Bastille every year, earning him the not-so-friendly nickname of the “Old Jacobin.” For all their Millian, free-speech high-mindedness, intellectuals like Peterson, and writers for outlets like Quillette, which has ridden the back of figures like Peterson to style itself a great defender of Enlightenment values against the totalitarian left, are remarkably pessimistic about our human ability to alter our customs through rational critique.
― treeship 2, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:23 (six years ago) link
This is my stuff
In the twentieth century, Theodor Adorno and Max Horkheimer—“postmodern neo-Marxists,” as Peterson would call them—thought that modern technology and scientific reason had outstripped humanity’s moral and political enlightenment. The powerful abstractions that allowed for scientific calculation and measurement levelled and liquidated when applied to humanity. They were appalled by the barbarity carried out in the name of progress and saw ancient myths replicated in the cult of reason. Yet for them, the recognition of Enlightenment’s failure led to a doubling-down on the project, an attempt to make rational criticism more aware of its own deficiencies.
What Frederik was talking about before — critical theory, beit adorno or derrida or foucault needs to be understood in its historical context. One advantage, i think, of engaging with reactionaries —hopefully smarter ones than peterson, but he seems to have a lot of influence — is that it’s an opportunity to defend and even renew the emancipatory enlightenment tradition, which as adorno saw needs to be understood dialectically because it’s not just a static set of values and if it becomes that can be easily appropriated. Seeing Peterson as an avatar of “irrationalism” isn’t metaphysical — that’s why reaction is, a longing for stability and tradition against the frightening uncertainty of freedom 😎
― treeship 2, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:37 (six years ago) link
Like the issue isn’t that Peterson has “ideas” that are “worth engaging”; the principle is that the forces of reaction should be confronted when they pop up and amass millions of followers
― treeship 2, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
Do you think your ex-wife can afford to finance an entire unsuccessful political campaign?— Dan, a very stable genius (@everybodyshirts) February 8, 2018
please run, Mike
― frogbs, Friday, 9 February 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
I agree with treeship. Too many examples of idiots & hucksters not being taken seriously or critiqued in any real way in the past. @ Simon - I agree that many on the far right are immovable, but what I think and what I think treeship believe is that Peterson is very much a gateway to that world or something close to it. I mean, the "PROFESSOR" chyron on Fox is a perfect example.
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 07:09 (six years ago) link
relevant to our interests I thinkhttps://medium.com/@shujaxhaider/what-makes-life-shitty-e739902b2529
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 10:10 (six years ago) link
there will be no angry and lost young ppl in socialist utopia
― ogmor, Monday, 12 February 2018 11:37 (six years ago) link
no one actually believes or argues that but thx anyway
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 11:39 (six years ago) link
he's says capitalism is why ppl have shitty lives
― ogmor, Monday, 12 February 2018 11:44 (six years ago) link
which is correct, and also not the same thing as saying no one's life would be shitty under a different economic arrangement
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 12:26 (six years ago) link
anyway whether or not you agree with that aspect, haider's broader point in that it's not enough to belittle peterson fans etc, you have to lay out a vision at some point. if you think you can address those concerns win a capitalist framework, go for it.
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 12:29 (six years ago) link
I sometimes wish all those writers of 'you have to lay out a vision' pieces would spend some more time working on that vision of theirs.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 12:33 (six years ago) link
fred that was me trying to make sure this doesn't become another socialism thread lol
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 12:40 (six years ago) link
I'm a socialist, feminist white young man (sorta, might not be that young anymore), and I've never felt attacked in the identity groups that I've been a part of. The thing about that piece is that it takes a self-evidently good point - it would be great if young men joined the DSA instead of the alt-right - and somehow puts the responsibility of that happening not on the DSA wing, but on the 'liberals' and in some ways on feminist and anti-racist groups. Who have better thing to do.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 12:40 (six years ago) link
I think almost literally any leftist has *better* / more productive things to do tbh
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 12:46 (six years ago) link
I’m not saying our primary task should be converting alt-righters. I don’t think we should do that at all. I’m not saying white men are the most important people to recruit. Quite the opposite; I want a more diverse left. I think we should dedicate all our strategic resources to making that happen.
I simply believe that these precepts are not incompatible with acknowledging that capitalism harms everyone whose labor is exploited for profit. I believe that we have an explanation for why white men sometimes have shitty lives too. And it’s completely compatible with the multifarious explanations for the oppression of others. I’m not calling for us to compromise one bit. I myself am a person of color who wants and needs white supremacy to be defeated. I think if we express our real beliefs, we’ll win people over, and we have a chance of taking power.But if we operate on an ethic of neoliberal bootstrapping, that those born with the privilege of being white men have only themselves to blame if capitalism exploits them, we’ve not only consigned ourselves to defeat, we’ve betrayed our most crucial values. And we’re letting down the marginalized people who deserve to have all of us, including white men, fighting for them, and for us, together.
I don't see how Haider is arguing what you say he's arguing at all
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 12:47 (six years ago) link
I (predictably) think this is extremely otm. The point of the left for me is reducing exploitation and inequality and creating a society that allows for the flourishing of human freedom, not just for some but for all. I don’t think that — given current messaging, especially the decentralized hell pit of twitter — everyone knows this is what the left stands for.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 12:51 (six years ago) link
Lol sorry for repeating the same quote.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 12:52 (six years ago) link
We live in a really fucked up time though and it’s hard to know how to best fight the rising tide of hate groups. Having MRA’s and Daily Stormer types operate on Reddit and Twitter is practically the same as allowing them to set up recruitment tables in local high schools, which no one would ever allow. Someone needs to feel like it’s important to win the hearts and minds of young white men before they fall into that resentment trap, which is really a bottomless hole. I guess this might be the role of educators or community leaders? I have no idea, but I’m not cool with the continued expansion of this trend of racists, homophobes and misogynists being able to position themselves as “anti-pc” truth tellers. It’s very dangerous.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:04 (six years ago) link
I would actually love to see DSA (or more specifically YDSA) establish a counter-alt-right task force or caucus or something.
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 13:05 (six years ago) link
I don’t care if they become socialists or even liberals but there needs to be less of them going down the alt right path.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:06 (six years ago) link
I would like that Simon. I’d even volunteer.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:07 (six years ago) link
I think Antifa groups are doing that? They definitely are in Europe. I've studied a bit with them.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:15 (six years ago) link
do they actually have positions to communicate beyond "fascism is bad"? (which I agree with, incidentally)
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 13:21 (six years ago) link
But it's the framing of that article. There's another possible way to say pretty much the same thing, which is that the socialist vision needs to be deeply, completely intersectional, to both entice identity politics into a socialist framework and white men into intersectional work. But instead it's filled with bad strawmen mixing 'liberals' with identity groups.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:21 (six years ago) link
x-post: Most of them are among the most committed socialists I know. But it's organizational work, educating, observing, connecting dots as to which groups are receiving funding from where, and which writers are presenting themselves as moderates in one place, and extremists in others.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:22 (six years ago) link
Someone needs to feel like it’s important to win the hearts and minds of young white men before they fall into that resentment trap, which is really a bottomless hole.
― treeship 2, Monday, February 12, 2018 5:04 AM (one hour ago)
young white men with either hearts or minds aren't going to go alt-right
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Monday, 12 February 2018 14:23 (six years ago) link
discarding potential future alt-righters (aka disenfranchised young white men, a growing demographic) as irredeemable inhuman scum is not going to help defeat the alt right. lots of young people manage to grow into and out of dumb beliefs all the time. (you can cue up one of my bad takes now)
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 14:48 (six years ago) link
like sorry but as long as people are growing up knowing they're going to grow up significantly worse off than their parents' generation there is going to be a reactionary layer. we can choose to at least try to redirect that or we can ignore/dismiss it but only one approach is definitely doomed
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 14:59 (six years ago) link
Not being concerned about young, miserable men being drawn to the reactionary propaganda designed to appeal to their damged egos, which is coming through their social media feeds with the speed and intensity of a fire hose, is “completely insane.”
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
The alt-right is self-defeating; I’m not remotely worried about “defeating” them.As far as alt-right conversion therapy goes, it reeks of more high road nonsense than I personally have time for; I’d much rather progressives, liberals and affiliates spend our precious calories on GOTV and enfranchisement work than worrying about the souls of disaffected white boys stranded in a shitty social network of their own making.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
Something needs to be done about alt-righters, but it's not as if there wasn't a reactionary layer back when young generations routinely had better lifes than there parents...
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:50 (six years ago) link
Having MRA’s and Daily Stormer types operate on Reddit and Twitter is practically the same as allowing them to set up recruitment tables in local high schools, which no one would ever allow.1. No it isn’t 2. Yes they would
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:51 (six years ago) link
I’d much rather progressives, liberals and affiliates spend our precious calories on GOTV and enfranchisement work
I agree with this. I suspect a significant number of "alt-right" saddos will magically turn liberal once that's perceived to be the "winning team."
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 12 February 2018 15:51 (six years ago) link
Tombot where are these daily stormer school booths at
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 15:53 (six years ago) link
fwiw, it's also true that there are voices speaking back to the alt-right within the spheres where these disaffected white boys are getting indoctrinated. gamergate was terrifying but the reaction against it probably made a lot of gamers cognizant of and willing to speak about a version of gaming culture that embodies other values and rejects both the rabid white-nationalist/aggrieved-male culture and the "anti-PC" leading edge that first draws in the 13-year-old misfit who wants to seem cool and badass online. obv that's a long way from articulating a gamer socialism that would fully answer to all the structural realities that lie behind misfitism but maybe that work is beginning, idk.
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:54 (six years ago) link
Again, go for that vision-thing, if you believe it is a clear and simple way to defeat resentment. But there's sometimes a layer of 'white innocence' about it all, where the poor white men can't help becoming racists due to the economic fallout from policies that were as a matter of fact mostly put in place by other racist white men. I don't think that strategy is more useful than what Antifa is doing, but that's my opinion.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 15:55 (six years ago) link
you forgot "rich"I say there's no harm in pursuing both approaches
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:01 (six years ago) link
but there is definitely harm in thinking this problem goes away on its own
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:02 (six years ago) link
I don't think anyone here is doing that. And the rich white men got the votes of the poor white men to do their bullshit. So there's kinda no need to add that qualifier.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:08 (six years ago) link
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=recruiting+teenagers+white+nationalism
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:09 (six years ago) link
I don't think anyone here is doing that.I pretty much am.
lol I was gonna say
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:12 (six years ago) link
lol, fair point. But even rushomancy seems to me to advocate more for a confrontational approach.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:16 (six years ago) link
For example, most bullies stop being bullies past a certain age when it stops being “fun” and they realize it means they’ll be shunned by peers if they don’t tamp it down. The ones who continue to bully others into middle age and beyond are incorrigible sociopaths. And as for the ones with hearts and minds, to allude to rushomancy’s post above, they sort themselves out more often than not. Any approach to “doing something” about these people should be the same as doing something about any other population of angry, violent, depressed people. More behavioral health professionals, more social workers, etc.There’s no need, and no excuse, for perpetuating the privilege of white guys by extending a special olive branch to alt-right dumbasses and their potential converts.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:17 (six years ago) link
guess who ends up suffering if that effort isn't made
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:26 (six years ago) link
Tombot otm tbh
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:27 (six years ago) link
I also keep thinking we should just start terrorisming them
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:28 (six years ago) link
cool answer
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:28 (six years ago) link
I’m also angry and white
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:29 (six years ago) link
I keep hoping one of these socialist organizers I hear about will organize me into a militia but nobody has come a knockin
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:30 (six years ago) link
Have you tried Antifa?
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:34 (six years ago) link
I'd like to hear more about what yr antifa ppl do Fred, ime most antifa ppl I encounter are anarchists not socialists
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 16:42 (six years ago) link
i think there's a way that the majority of alt-righters could end up "outgrowing" it while the movement as a whole still grows in power. even if the the majority of them end up dropping out of it fairly soon, if the rate of new arrivals outpaces the rate of exits, the group continues to get larger.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 12 February 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
I can’t be an anarchist bc I love rules so much
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 16:55 (six years ago) link
― Simon H., 12. februar 2018 17:42 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The ones I know are from the Redox program, they do research into far righters who try to stay anonymous, figure out who is organizing, who is a member of which group and which other groups they are collaborating with. I've met them since I've written about MRAs and alt-righters in the Danish film industry. They pretty routinely support the Unity List, the far-left party that got 18% of the vote in the municipal election in Copenhagen last fall. The existence of that coalition means a lot of far-left distinctions doesn't mean as much as I guess it does in other countries.
― Frederik B, Monday, 12 February 2018 17:03 (six years ago) link
I think we're slowly seeing that elsewhere too, I mean DSA is openly trying to be "multi tendency"
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 17:11 (six years ago) link
alt-righters could end up "outgrowing" it while the movement as a whole still grows in power.
yep. they'll stop posting wacky little frog cartoons on the internet and start running for office. and yes, a lot of these guys are disaffected and have no economic agency. but LOTS of them are just middle and upper middle class fratty bros who just like to troll. they'll "grow up" and get with jobs in finance or GOP politics.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:13 (six years ago) link
That makes them no different than their forebears
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:27 (six years ago) link
I mean if the problem here is that alt-right boys grow up to be garden variety Republican men, uh
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:28 (six years ago) link
https://www.splcenter.org/20180205/alt-right-killing-peopleKill ‘em back
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 18:32 (six years ago) link
I mean, not really, maybe, but goddamn
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Monday, 12 February 2018 18:35 (six years ago) link
100 victims over 4 years is less worrisome than stinging insectshttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/16/chart-the-animals-that-are-most-likely-to-kill-you-this-summer/
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
idk if I would describe them as "fratty bros" -- part of their whole thing (the "alt" part) is defining themselves in part as opposition to fratty bros, "chads" if you will
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 12 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
Like all those Young Tories in the 80s and 90s with their Hang Mandela badges and t-shirts who turned into Old Tories who'd rather not talk about when they were Young Tories.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 18:42 (six years ago) link
Whites still have quite a ways to catch up, 7000+ dead by Islamic terrorists in the same time period (if this is how we're choosing to look at things) (obviously I find silbys post reprehensible)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
― sleepingbag, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:13 (six years ago) link
in an American context, the majority of mass shootings are done by white folks and right-wing nationalist goons.
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 19:16 (six years ago) link
Yeah I wouldn't really go down that road SB. But I'll see your Wikipedia (sigh) link and raise you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States
― maura, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:56 (six years ago) link
Mass shootings are just one of the dangers of far right ideology. For every one mass shooter there are probably 10,000 me who share that kind of extremely antisocial, grievance driven way of looking at the world. And now the alt right is giving these tendencies in American life — this disease — a more political shape, and the shape is an ideology of white supremacy and male supremacy. It’s poisonous to the whole society. Of course it’s *their* moral failure for turning to hate but the costs of are borne by all of us, especially the most vulnerable groups.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:19 (six years ago) link
*10,000 men
I don’t have the answers to this but I find it really troubling.
― treeship 2, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:21 (six years ago) link
Meanwhile, Kent State TPUSA organizer quits publicly:
http://libertyhangout.org/2018/02/im-turning-point-usas-top-activist-in-the-country-im-quitting-this-shitty-organization/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 12 February 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link
.@charliekirk11 you should’ve been the one in the diaper— TPUSA at Kent State (@TPUSAatKent) February 12, 2018
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 21:17 (six years ago) link
sadly we are all the ones in the diaper now
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 12 February 2018 21:29 (six years ago) link
The answer to mass shootings in the USA is strong gun control, which will require work on GOTV and enfranchisement efforts to win elections. The answer to depressed, angry, disaffected populations is a strong commitment to investing in domestic mental health and social work programs at every level of government, which requires the same thing. But let’s keep wringing our hands over where these asshole saddos are coming from like this shit is in any way new or unique.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 00:57 (six years ago) link
the sort of lost mb resentful young ppl chaos sex dragon man is appealing to exist in all manner of societies including ones which are much more socialist than the US cld conceivably get in our lifetimes so I'm not convinced leftist groups have much to offer them. saying its 'capitalism' is the source of their ills is as useless as saying it's society, or america, or the patriarchy. the psychological lens (& mythic dragons) gives ppl a sense of individual control which is not really what the left deals in
― ogmor, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 14:06 (six years ago) link
The ravages of late capitalism as a totalising lens through which to read the grievances of angry young men is an unsurprisingly short-sighted way of looking at it. A yearning for community and social recognition in response to slights real and/or perceived, a desire to enter the proving grounds and emerge a seemingly capable, strong male adult, strike me as the driving forces behind aspirant Jordan Petersons and their ilk. The question of masculinity is the fulcrum here imho. As a side note, I highly doubt public shaming is the proper corrective, barring a few cases.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
a desire to enter the proving grounds and emerge a seemingly capable, strong male adult
I wonder what could be helping convince young men they won't grow up to be capable adults? definitely not their (and everyone else's) dwindling career prospects
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:07 (six years ago) link
A yearning for community
sorry to sound reductionist again but yknow our economic system is *fantastic* at creating a hyper-atomized and alienated population
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:12 (six years ago) link
That is undoubtedly a factor, it's just not the be-all and end-all. A man in his late twenties who works in IT, to take a particularly glaring cliché, but who is ultimately viewed as a neckbeard loser virgin by his peers due to his poor grasp of normative social cues and unattractive appearance is also a prime candidate for MRA-ship and the like. I am simply wary of the tendency to systematically pin the blame on capitalism – it is a culprit, yes, but not the only one, and hardly to such an extent.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:13 (six years ago) link
A man in his late twenties who works in IT, to take a particularly glaring cliché, but who is ultimately viewed as a neckbeard loser virgin by his peers due to his poor grasp of normative social cues and unattractive appearance
I'm sure this was just as much of a thing in the 80s/90s, but they didn't tend to calcify that resentment into something resembling an ideology before (at least not at the levels we're seeing, to my knowledge). What's changed between then and now, besides the appearance of Reddit?
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
Reddit, 4chan and others are game-changers. They've provided an outlet for their tacit suffering, giving them a modicum of twisted hope.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
If you really think Reddit and 4chan are more consequential (or equally consequential) catalysts for brewing resentment than capitalism then I don't know what to tell you
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
Are we talking about root causes or catalysts?
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
I'm more concerned with the former
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:25 (six years ago) link
shutting down reddit and 4chan would accomplish nothing (though it would be satisfying, lol); offering a robust and convincing counternarrative for the malaise and alienation people experience might not accomplish nothing
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:28 (six years ago) link
I certainly don't think of social media as a root cause, for what it's worth. Like I said, it's a primarily cultural, even psychological problem that is in some ways aggravated by capitalism, though possibly alleviated it by it as well. If you believe these types didn't exist at all in the Eastern bloc throughout the communist era, for instance, trust me, it's a lot more complicated than that. The fact that they've channelled that resentment into something resembling an ideology in the past decade or so is a slightly different matter as far as I'm concerned.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:29 (six years ago) link
What's changed between then and now, besides the appearance of Reddit?
The rise of everyone else - a black president, nearly a female one.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:32 (six years ago) link
Dude, the internet is absolutely an accelerant for this shit. It's never been so easy to find and communicate with people across the globe who will buttress whatever worldview you hold or are susceptible to buying into.
― You dishonor your ancestors with your emoji abstention (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
Not to mention that the distribution of alt-righters varies quite a bit among capitalist countries, with the US reigning supreme due to other factors (the association of masculinity with phallic gun violence being one of them).
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
No oen is dumb enough to argue, and no one is arguing, that the internet is not *an accelerant*
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
reddit is practically a left-wing institution you guys or at the very least center left.
"sorry to sound reductionist again but yknow our economic system is *fantastic* at creating a hyper-atomized and alienated population"
this is by design. in communitarian economies families + communities are developed inherently through the structure of the economic system (through things such as inheritance laws). although egalitarian communitarian societies do exist, it seems to me like capitalism has been much better at generating equality. societies that have not moved to a market economy are generally stunted (by nepotism/corruption). i personally think we've become too atomized but it's good to talk about why this has come about. capitalism isn't a magic demon -- when you move towards an individualized economy (aka no forced inheritance) you gain economic growth, you create opportunities for people who might otherwise grow up and die on the same family homestead, etc. But then you also lose the family and consequently the community.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link
tldr the market economy has upsides and downsides for the very things we claim to be interested in (equality, egalitarianism, individualism, liberalism, and then on the other side, tradition, family, community, etc).
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:41 (six years ago) link
I even like to think, perhaps naively, that if Canada weren't right next to the US we would probably be less prone to copying even the most harmful of our neighbours' ideological trends, though you could conversely argue that this proximity has partially inoculated us against their excesses. If memory serves, Canada is the country whose opinion of the US was most negatively affected in the wake of Trump's election. Do degrees of capitalism alone explain this difference? Some of it, I'll wager, but not all.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:41 (six years ago) link
Canada was mostly shielded from the '08 crisis, for starters.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:42 (six years ago) link
Mordy otm re: reddit. Not so sure about 'capitalism has been much better at generating equality', though it's a perfectly defensible point. It also depends on the instance of capitalism under discussion.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:43 (six years ago) link
ultimately western capitalism has been an engine for exacerbating *in*equality
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:45 (six years ago) link
like on a massive scale
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:46 (six years ago) link
compared to what? feudal europe?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:46 (six years ago) link
things are not more unequal now than when 80-90% of the population were literally serfs.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:47 (six years ago) link
compared to a few decades ago, aka within living memory
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:47 (six years ago) link
a few decades ago we had a market capitalist economy
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
Income inequality is at an all-time high, but there are other types of inequality that need to be taken into account (gendered, coloured, sexual, etc.). Not to mention that extreme poverty has been halved since 1990.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:49 (six years ago) link
i'm familiar with parfit et al but i don't know that i buy that. at previous times in history some people owned everything and 90% of the population owned nothing. nothing can compare to that level of inequality. if we're comparing this moment of market capitalism to a previous moment of market capitalism then what we really need to discuss are the unique features that have increased inequality but it doesn't really make sense to say capitalism is to blame for inequality bc it's more unequal now than other times we've had capitalism.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:54 (six years ago) link
I would like to go on record in case I was unclear and say feudalism was bad
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:56 (six years ago) link
Is that extreme poverty reduction figure global or US?
Global.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 15:57 (six years ago) link
that makes more sense.
capitalism isn't a magic demon -- when you move towards an individualized economy (aka no forced inheritance) you gain economic growth, you create opportunities for people who might otherwise grow up and die on the same family homestead, etc.
yes, capitalism has inarguably done a wonderful job of accelerating productive forces and raising living standards both in the US and abroad, but I don't see how it can offer a believably hopeful vision for more of this growth in the future to the average american as we stare down climate change, automation, and (yes) skyrocketing inequality
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:05 (six years ago) link
you'd hope that we could restrain those negative impulses but we have a different problem which is that democracies have a very difficult time getting anything done at all and esp our democracy in the US. if one guy owned everything and made all the decisions he could just be like "no more coal, everyone gets fed" etc. alternatively he could be like, "let's kill a ton of people for fun." so there are trade offs.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:09 (six years ago) link
Andrew Farrell is extremely otm, btw
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:10 (six years ago) link
I don't think you need to think capitalism is a "magic demon" to think it doesn't allow for great strategies to deal with our most pressing problems.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:11 (six years ago) link
the problem w/ capitalism is that it's all about rewarding acquisition and particularly vis-a-vis inequality the ownership of capital tends to generate more and more capital until everything is owned by the same few people. but the only path out of that afaict is gov intervention / redistribution etc. but those are things that assume you're going to keep capitalism bc if you're planning on moving forward you don't need to redistribute you just nationalize the whole thing and then deal with those sets of problems - how do you handle power being concentrated in the hands of the few? is there a meaningful difference between a few people owning everything for themselves or a few people owning everything as representatives of the populace? ideally you'd want to combine some kind of feedback mechanism along with nationalization so that you can force those representatives to exercise their power responsibly but the problem w/ giving all the assets to a small group of people is that now any kind of democratic check is undermined. i feel like democracy can only work if the ppl participating in it not only have skin in the game but have skin at all. otherwise you're depending on the largesse of the guy in charge and this is ultimately different from an enlightened despot how? i've looked into actual worker run enterprises but successes tend to be extremely limited, i'm not sure you can run an entire country using that kind of collectivism - someone is going to be making decisions, etc. so assume we stick with capitalism bc that allows all kinds of things - what we need to figure out is how to put meaningful breaks on the excesses that are produced. democracy has so far been vulnerable - both bc ppl w/ all the capital can (and do) take steps to undermine true democratic participation (a. undermining democracy) and bc democracy itself is weak, we have trouble generating consensus, people are not perfect voters/actors so they have trouble executing their will in a productive manner (b. democracy itself). idk i hope for some kind of new noblesse oblige where the ppl w/ capital realize they're gonna be murdered by the peasantry if they don't clean things up. however w/ transnational corporations, easy global travel, global finance, etc, the kochs or thiel or whoever can just book it if the peasants come to the gate w/ the pitchforks. so i don't know what the solution is and tbh i'm v pessimistic about the future. i just don't think that capitalism is quite the boogyman here since a lot of the issues we're dealing w/ are not limited to a free market economy and could even be exacerbated by some of the alternatives.
tldr who cares i have work to do sorry for wasting everyone's time
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:29 (six years ago) link
I'm not sure I like measuring suffering in percentages. Surely it's the total number that is important?
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:32 (six years ago) link
I think those are very reasonable fears mordy. my hope is that we see some real-world models start to emerge and provide new strategies. (this is why I think every leftist, including me, is going to be completely insufferable whenever the next UK election gets triggered)
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:35 (six years ago) link
Great post, Mordy – mostly mirrors my own worries and scepticism.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:38 (six years ago) link
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:32 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:42 (six years ago) link
I'm not a utilitarian, never mind a negative one.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
I just mean that I don't see the good of 45% of people starving vs 50% (say) if it's a greater number of people starving.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 16:46 (six years ago) link
Are they ours or theirs starving
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 17:33 (six years ago) link
Mordy otm obv
Also inequality is a strange thing to measure on even if everyone agreed what we meant by inequality
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 17:34 (six years ago) link
Oh boy, guess who got printed in the Independent for writing about this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jordan-peterson-clinical-psychologist-canada-popularity-convincing-why-left-wing-alt-right-cathy-a8208301.html
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 23:00 (six years ago) link
(Hint: Lacan isn’t mentioned till the 4th paragraph in)
make it stop
With Russell Brand for tomorrow's podcast https://t.co/H7GLekceJz pic.twitter.com/ukXAdQXeov— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) February 13, 2018
― soref, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 23:29 (six years ago) link
smh @ both of these developments
― Simon H., Tuesday, 13 February 2018 23:37 (six years ago) link
pwease save us youtube daddy
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Tuesday, 13 February 2018 23:38 (six years ago) link
oh god
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 00:03 (six years ago) link
Russell Brand isn’t that bad
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:32 (six years ago) link
politically he seems mostly fine? I just find him incredibly annoying lmao
― Simon H., Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:33 (six years ago) link
Hes a vapid slapped with good vocabular momentum
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:35 (six years ago) link
slapper
Yeah. I kinda can’t help but empathize with his whole working-out-his-ideas in public thing though. Also he turned away like 20 million dollars he could have claimed after his divorce from Katy Perry.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:36 (six years ago) link
Big fucking kudos for shagging Katy Perry for free that guy
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:37 (six years ago) link
I have a fairly low threshold for praising people
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:40 (six years ago) link
We may not have that in common
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:41 (six years ago) link
slapped with good vocabular momentum
I love this btw. Joycean.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:48 (six years ago) link
Yes, that's clear.
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:57 (six years ago) link
Ok, you can’t just second my own self-deprecating comment like it’s your own insult. It’s in the FAQ.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:16 (six years ago) link
eh, brand is an idiot forever for that "you shouldn't vote" stuff from a few years back
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:19 (six years ago) link
xp treeship otm that shit is lower than sarcasm
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:21 (six years ago) link
I like Brand's podcast (despite him being occasionally annoying--which is really only when he tries to be funny) and think he's pretty sharp but doing this right after Sam Harris means I'm gonna have to take a pass on listening to it.
― ryan, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 02:29 (six years ago) link
i liked brand's amy winehouse eulogy
― maura, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 03:21 (six years ago) link
I think peterson just tweeted to a zizek parody account... calling for a duel. He pinned it. Unreal.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 04:58 (six years ago) link
Tbf mistaking a zizek parody for zizek is extremely relatable
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 09:29 (six years ago) link
I'm not a fan of Brand but he has quite an audience and I dunno why you would use that to introduce ppl to Peterson.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 09:43 (six years ago) link
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:32 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You deserve to be FP'd to death for this.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 09:57 (six years ago) link
Love how Mordy looked into worker run enterprises and inferred a whole little dystopia out of it. Are you writing this shit up as a novel Mordy where can I buy it?
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 10:11 (six years ago) link
Cut him some slack, the lad's feeling pessimistic :(
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 10:22 (six years ago) link
I'll try but I can't make any promises.
I didn't know Russell speaks big words fast = Joycean, but it's just another day on ilxor dot com.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 10:30 (six years ago) link
Can't quite parse the man-bun plus what looks like it might be an Alcoholics Anonymous hoodie.
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 10:34 (six years ago) link
Russell BRAND amirite
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 11:47 (six years ago) link
he was pretty much the only person in the public eye trying to articulate this despite how common a view it is & I've yet to see a good counter argument. if miliband hadn't made the changes to the labour party that allowed for corbynism i wld still agree w him. ppl who are much less politically active or effective feel unselfconscious chiding him for his irresponsibility. this is often the case w brand, who more than most ppl just gets dismissed wholesale for a few moral failings or just bc he irks (& obv you can wonder what it says about the culture that a handsome, optimistic, peacocking, working class autodidact annoys so many)
― ogmor, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:11 (six years ago) link
I wasn't aware Mark E. Smith annoyed that many people tbf.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:15 (six years ago) link
oh you
― But doctor, I am Camille Paglia (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:18 (six years ago) link
ogmor otm
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:22 (six years ago) link
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:30 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I was saying that Dag’s post was Joycean, in its phrasing, because. The typos seemed like neologisms. “slapped with good vocabular momentum.”
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:26 (six years ago) link
I’m going to make Genius annotation pages for each of my posts from now on.
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:29 (six years ago) link
He's completely fallen off my radar since the Miliband era tbh, now we've got Corbyn after all, so maybe he's really great now ...
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:31 (six years ago) link
i dunno he seems to be posing approvingly with an actual fascist dick upthread so maybe not
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:32 (six years ago) link
'slapped' was a typo but 'good vocabular momentum' was excellent
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:35 (six years ago) link
agenbrand of inwit
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:35 (six years ago) link
darragh can turn a phrase
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:40 (six years ago) link
ogmor makes a good case for Brand - its hard not to feel cynical about his motives at the same time though
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:43 (six years ago) link
my feelings on Brand kind of vacillate wildly but I'm not against him going tete-a-tete with a walking alt-right meme so long as he bodies him
that C4 interview with Peterson was an absolute disaster on account of the dreadful interviewer who wasn't interested in calmly picking off the giant holes in Peterson's arguments. how many times: show, don't tell
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:51 (six years ago) link
Whoever commissioned that interview should be shot.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:54 (six years ago) link
yep. C4 knew what it was doing and knew what would happen
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:54 (six years ago) link
Whatever you think of Brand's "don't vote" position surely it's hard to take seriously when after one interview with Miliband he decided "oh no actually vote labour" after the deadline to register had already expired?
Like I understand that there's something to learning and growing in public but that was just taking the piss.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:55 (six years ago) link
Brand appeared with Ed before the election despite saying don't vote. I just wouldn't trust a thing he says. Xps Too erratic.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:59 (six years ago) link
Who could we trust to interview Jordan Peterson in this damned country? Paul Mason? No. Marina Hyde? Yeah maybe, but she doesn't really do TV work
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:02 (six years ago) link
Maybe that Chakrabortty dude
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:03 (six years ago) link
Are there any homegrown comedians that UK ilxors can stand
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:05 (six years ago) link
Or maybe interviewing him in the first place is a lose-lose game, as SV has said before
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:06 (six years ago) link
We only like Stewart Lee and there's a guy called Kitson too but none of his stuff's online. Everyone else is awful (or something)
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:07 (six years ago) link
Does he even have a cult here? It's one thing to confront someone who's already popular, another to introduce new opponents to yr audience.
xpost imago otm afaict. As an immigrant I can never summon the hatred that only true Brits can feel for pretty much all of their celebrities but I will say seeing all these ppl appear on panel shows constantly and have their own dumb history shows on BBC4 has made me understand that rage a bit more
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:10 (six years ago) link
I like Sean Lock but I'm not a Brit
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:13 (six years ago) link
that Gary Younge guy made pretty short work of Spencer.
― Simon H., Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:14 (six years ago) link
yeah because he actually examined what he said and showed it up for being bullshit - rather than most interviewers who encounter him by going OH NO YOU DIDNT
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:16 (six years ago) link
If you lived here you'd be the same. Does Russell Brand still consider himself a comedian?
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:17 (six years ago) link
Love how Mordy looked into worker run enterprises and inferred a whole little dystopia out of it. Are you writing this shit up as a novel Mordy where can I buy it?Wtf are you talking about I said I didn’t think it could be a model for running an entire country where in your fevered idiot brain did that become a dystopia?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:20 (six years ago) link
Guess I shouldn’t expect more from a tankie.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:22 (six years ago) link
Tom D, it wasn’t a judgement. I’m sure I would be, or at least if I was native. I do think there’s something cultural to the general dislike of people who think they’re funny, that we aren’t brought up with over here. I’m not sure who counts as a comedian these days. There are plenty of people who are generally famous for and make living by joking and clowning but don’t do stand up or act much.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:24 (six years ago) link
I do think there’s something cultural to the general dislike of people who think they’re funny, that we aren’t brought up with over here.
Maybe you have funnier comedians.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:29 (six years ago) link
i think they do
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:29 (six years ago) link
Maria Bamford and Gregg Turkington alone push them over the UK
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:31 (six years ago) link
None of the "big laughers" who risk serious hilarity induced self-harm by attending the Edinburgh Festival on ILX?
― calzino, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:33 (six years ago) link
Comedians of a certain age (as most cultural journos) of a certain age have the usual garbage politics
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:38 (six years ago) link
Yeah practically none of them think Stalin was a pretty cool bro.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
Calm down Mordy, lock yourself up in your room. Stay safe.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
I don't think this is a comedian thing, really, Brit ILX opinions on British actors, directors, "cultural commentators" equally hostile. Not saying they're wrong mind.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 13:50 (six years ago) link
Joanna Hogg is s good Brit director. ILX generally likes her.
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:03 (six years ago) link
I think it's the excess of ghastly comedy panel shows which really puts ILXors off British comedians, especially when they seem happy to share a laugh and a joke w/ despicable pols like Boris Johnson or Ruth Davidson - I'm right in thinking that these shows don't really exist in America?
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:11 (six years ago) link
Loads of good ILX-approved Brit directors
― imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:11 (six years ago) link
(xp) OTM, and these shitty, cheap to produce, panel shows need more and more of these talentless cunts to keep going.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:33 (six years ago) link
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 12:40 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
If I'd only Russell's (any Russell's) looks
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:37 (six years ago) link
tbh I have it when good ilxors fight about stuff as meaningless as leftist politics
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:42 (six years ago) link
http://www.motivatorcoach.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/bertrand-russell.jpg
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 14:52 (six years ago) link
ws russell morelike
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 15:07 (six years ago) link
Jack Russell you mean.
― Video reach stereo bog (Tom D.), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 15:19 (six years ago) link
Rosalind Russell
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
As alluded to above, multiple pics here:
I can't even handle this, Jordan Peterson got upset by Zizek's recent article about him so he's trying to pick a fight with a Zizek quotes account pic.twitter.com/ul8e45d3fi— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) February 14, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 19:34 (six years ago) link
that is amazing
is it gauche to say that i know haider IRL? i have always though of him as a smart guy and good musician and he hooked me up with some crossword books one time; i find it totally delightful that he's becoming this big of an internet voice.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 20:11 (six years ago) link
*so* gauche, strewth
― ogmor, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
He got targeted for some twitter bullshit a couple days ago, too
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:26 (six years ago) link
How does someone not know to look for the checkmark
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:28 (six years ago) link
his response to the incident was linked here a couple days ago
― Simon H., Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:30 (six years ago) link
― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:28 (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
How do u fail to work in a 'check' pun there treezy
How
― Alderweireld Horses (darraghmac), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:37 (six years ago) link
https://t.co/Getu7acjd5 pic.twitter.com/Szgju4Bknq— Jordan Peterson or Islamist Cleric? (@JBPorCleric) February 15, 2018
pic.twitter.com/41Y8nWLhqY— Jordan Peterson or Islamist Cleric? (@JBPorCleric) February 15, 2018
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:12 (six years ago) link
Peterson is a mirror image of a conservative Islamic clerics—selling a vision of tradition and order to disaffected young men who’ve become disillusioned with liberalism. And as in that case, it really only becomes a serious problem if going down this road leads ones to more dangerous reactionaries—groups who see themselves not as critics, but as enemies of modern society. (Sub in “multicultural” for “western.”)
― treeship 2, Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:24 (six years ago) link
Were they ever illusioned with it
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:25 (six years ago) link
Probably as kids they liked their marilyn manson cassettes and JNCO jeans and tamagatchis and all the other treasures of our permissive society but then as adults they feel lost and so they decide to blame it on the Jezebel articles they used to read every so often in 2007. Tale as old as time.
― treeship 2, Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:29 (six years ago) link
Basically, fundamentalism doesn’t happen without men.
― kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
can't spell fundamentalism without men iirc
or, tbf, fun
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:40 (six years ago) link
or mental
boy i could do this all day
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:41 (six years ago) link
or mentalism
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:41 (six years ago) link
d'oh, snap
fundament
or dame. we're all implicated
― imago, Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
or amen
back in your box, Peterson
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
Kind of miss the days when the idiot's smart person was Stephen Fry
― imago, Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
yeah feel bad for being mean about him now
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 13:45 (six years ago) link
Why do you guys hate Stephen Fry
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:24 (six years ago) link
anti-semitism iirc
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
I have nothing against stephen fry that I can recall
― Simon H., Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
Wait, isn't he Jewish?
― pomenitul, Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:36 (six years ago) link
Who could we trust to interview Jordan Peterson in this damned country? Paul Mason? No.
ahhh! the french... champagne
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:38 (six years ago) link
Xp I think bg was joking that ppl don't like him because they are antisemitic
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:42 (six years ago) link
I think ppl dislike fry for smugness, overexposure & not being funny (this last arguably unfair as it hasn't been his job to be funny for decades), also he has said dumb shit things about women iirc
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
I don't think ppl dislike fry
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
and for being the darling of the centrist chattering class for like ever
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:46 (six years ago) link
Deems you don't think anybody dislikes fry?
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
history has vindicated the lex tbh
― Number None, Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:48 (six years ago) link
A COMEDIAN IS SOMEONE WHO TALKS IN EXCHANGE FOR APPROVING NOISES— Bernie Thoughts (@berniethoughts) February 14, 2018
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:50 (six years ago) link
the lex was UK ILX’s favorite comedian until he tried out that routine about children in front of a bunch of uncles
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:54 (six years ago) link
lol don't those uncles are still sore & fragile
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 14:56 (six years ago) link
I don't think everybody dislikes fry and I don't think everybody likes fry I don't think that the tendency in any one relevant subgroup is strong enough to be remarkable
UK ilxors prob hate him the same way lj was outraged about cheap orange juice being available to the lower orders that time
― rum dmc (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:02 (six years ago) link
Lisa McGee, Sharon Horgan, Graham Linehan..
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:04 (six years ago) link
Who, maybe, not much
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:05 (six years ago) link
Josie Long?
― kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:06 (six years ago) link
stewart lee obv
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:06 (six years ago) link
NV expertly cosplaying a begrudger there, foreigners take notes.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:09 (six years ago) link
Linehan famously insufferable on twitter but I mean, twitter - can't front fr ted is classic
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
those three comedians all have something in common. Can't quite put my finger on it though...
― Number None, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:14 (six years ago) link
channel 4 iirc
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
Linehan is way past his sell by date.
Stewart Lee is too Guardian for my liking. No trust there.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
Josie Long is good at twitter. Never seen her stand up tho'.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:22 (six years ago) link
Does Linehan perform comedy as well as write it?
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
He hasn't written it forever
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
Josie Long is still the most famous alumnus (alumna?) (oh you problematic Romans!) of the gifted and talented course I not only attended but now help to run - well, it's either her or a kid who ended up being one of the world's best beatboxers. I will outmatch them both one day obv when I write the text that defeats the entire alt-right
― imago, Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:06 (six years ago) link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeps_One
here he is
incredibly lovely kid btw
― imago, Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:09 (six years ago) link
fundamentalism doesn’t happen without men.
I like this.
And this.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:35 (six years ago) link
Father Ted is great but Linehan's sitcom work has been steadily declining since then and yeah, bad and terfy on twitter. I still love Seinfeld too but wouldn't list the dude as amongst my fav comedians.
Stewart Lee isn't really Guardian, he had Guardiandom thrust upon him. His entirely sensible reaction has been to record a Free Jazz album and announce his retirement.
Josie Long is a an angel and a hero, I miss her Camden comedy nights something fierce. But she is also perky and optimistic, so it shouldn't surprise anyone you can find lots of hate for her in the ILX archives.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:40 (six years ago) link
Frankie Boyle? Particularly after he got too woke to compare Becky Alsington’s face to a spoon any more.
― kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
The proverbial stopped clock iirc
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:45 (six years ago) link
Didn't know lee had announced his retirement!
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 16:57 (six years ago) link
He calls it a break not a retirement - but I'm still guessin' those Southbank tickets will seel out fast. Can totally understand it tho - someone who's made a living of being contrarian and abrasive gets to the stage where they're almost universally acclaimed, it's gotta fuck up the shtick to some extent.
http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2018/01/31/39027/stewart_lee_to_take_a_break_from_stand-up
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 15 February 2018 21:00 (six years ago) link
Well also he can maybe afford not to do it, and who wants to be doing standup in their 50s
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 21:15 (six years ago) link
Also run out of material about kids' TV and driving on the motorway
― "oh no my cheds" man had dark to black packet (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 February 2018 21:21 (six years ago) link
the alt-right
― scrüt (wins), Thursday, 15 February 2018 21:23 (six years ago) link
shocking, I know
So Jordan Peterson admits that he has been accused "three times during (his) career of sexual impropriety."That explains a lot of his views & behaviour. pic.twitter.com/l9IsYHgAyg— Sacha Saeen (@_Saeen_) February 17, 2018
― Simon H., Sunday, 18 February 2018 00:43 (six years ago) link
Good news everyone
Slavoj Žižek says that Jordan Peterson is a conspiracy theorist and accepts his invitation to debate, choosing New York City in October. https://t.co/pDhg1c7Ec0— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) February 19, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 19 February 2018 19:29 (six years ago) link
Hell yes
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:30 (six years ago) link
stoked for the madness(what are the chances peterson is gonna end up disgraced and abandoned by october tho)
― NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 19:31 (six years ago) link
Totally disagree with ppl itt saying that Peterson isn't worth serious critique or debate. that kind of intellectual/cultural elitism only emboldens Peterson and makes his audience grow. glad that Zizek is going to debate him. I thought his column about the lack of critique from the left and the lack of a defense beyond a patronizing "it's self evident" from the left was otm.
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link
peterson isn't worth of debate and it's not due to elitism - he's a tenured professor at U of T and now best-selling author, he is the elite - it's that his ideas aren't worth engaging with and it's best not to give him the oxygen of publicity
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Monday, 19 February 2018 19:38 (six years ago) link
zizek is an entertainer and troll as much as a thinker so it makes sense for his brand
whatever you think of his ideas, he needs to be engaged because of the audience he's garnering: very impressionable and seemingly more open-minded to criticism than fans of other explicitly alt right figures. Zizek is the perfect person to do it precisely for the reasons you stated
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:41 (six years ago) link
if they debate and zizek hands his ass to him, it will do nothing to dissuade or deter peterson's fans who will maintain that he crushed zizek with logic
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Monday, 19 February 2018 19:43 (six years ago) link
flappy bird otm.
― pomenitul, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:48 (six years ago) link
this is gonna be awesome but anyone who thinks zizek is going to debunk jp or whatever doesn't understand zizek
― Mordy, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:48 (six years ago) link
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Monday, February 19, 2018 2:43 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
some, maybe. but this is fatalistic and again, dangerously dismissive. he needs to be interrogated, even if it starts with Zizek. certainly an improvement over some hapless cable tv host or sam fuckin harris
― flappy bird, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:50 (six years ago) link
nah, flappy, you're wrong on this. Peterson is the intellectual equivalent of a toddler throwing spaghetti at the wall, or a Rorschach test for bigoted assholes. He introduces so much bullshit so quickly and his audiences are so gullible and so filled with unearned intellectual confidence that any critique is gonna be useless.
Peterson looked like an idiot in that vice interview, but do you see fans of his saying, "Oh, man, the emperor has no clothes after all. What was I thinking?"?
― bamcquern, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:57 (six years ago) link
like I'd love to see Peterson get flustered because Zizek asks him questions on subjects he always suggests he has expertise in, like "Can you name two self-avowed postmodernists and give a brief summary of what they believe?" or something about Marxist bugbears like secular stagnation and financialization, but his audience doesn't admire Peterson for his erudition or his intellectual integrity, and they're gonna enthusiastically slurp up whatever dodge he offers them.
― bamcquern, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:10 (six years ago) link
again zizek is not going to debunk him. if anything i think zizek may be able to draw interesting ideas out of him or at least locate grounds for debate that are productive. i very seriously doubt he's going in to do a fisking of JP and i expect at least a few occasions where they are able to "find common ground." it'll be entertaining af but be prepared don't be disappointed.
― Mordy, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:11 (six years ago) link
ps my roommate has been mainlining this dude's lectures and proselytizing about him and I hate him so much
― bamcquern, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:11 (six years ago) link
ugh my condolences
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Monday, 19 February 2018 20:22 (six years ago) link
I'm sorry (not sorry) but any of you who think a "debate" between two self-fellating white men on the moot topic of white male supremacy is worthwhile, necessary, or might "draw some interesting ideas out," or all of the above, are on some very, very heavy and bad drugs that are affecting your ability to think your way out of a paper bag that's had the bottom cut out. You also seem grossly ignorant of what period of history we're living in. If you want to appreciate it like some kind of noize actionist art show, fine, but please please please don't act like either of these dudes has any merit other than challopsing at saddos with the full force of their solitaire scrabble scores.
Trying to think of something less relevant to human existence that's planned for eight months from now and can't come up with one.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:34 (six years ago) link
if you don't see how zizek debating jp will be entertaining you should just pull your head out of your ass and stop worrying about being the wokest white guy in the room
― Mordy, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:35 (six years ago) link
Agree with Tombot 1000%. Both these men should be fired naked out of a space shuttle hatch; the video of them exploding into frozen meat-shards would be infinitely more illuminating than anything either of them has ever thought, said, or written.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 19 February 2018 20:36 (six years ago) link
I find it entertaining to say "fuck you, clown" to people who pay so little attention to the world that they think this is going to be worth anyone's time
― El Tomboto, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:37 (six years ago) link
sure but
challopsing at saddos
new board description
― persona non gratin (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 19 February 2018 20:37 (six years ago) link
el tomboto otm
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:41 (six years ago) link
"You also seem grossly ignorant of what period of history we're living in." sorry but this is dumb af
― Mordy, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:48 (six years ago) link
If you want to appreciate it like some kind of noize actionist art show, fine
― El Tomboto, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:50 (six years ago) link
saddo as an insult all the time lately, why. seems a little kick-someone-while-they're-down-y. fuck the happyos imo.
― sleepingbag, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:52 (six years ago) link
lol at the thread that got bumped while i was typing that
― sleepingbag, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:54 (six years ago) link
http://thephilosophicalsalon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/big_cd4fdd4b37-120x150.jpg
― F# A# (∞), Monday, 19 February 2018 20:58 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, lundi 19 février 2018 14:50 (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Dunno if it crossed the border but he has been endlessly interrogated here in Canada. However, the fans of The Great Jordan Alpha will keep claiming he has Logic™ and Science™ on his side so no one will be effectively convinced, and the fact that he managed to deftly monetize so much of these debates or these columns is exactly how his mini-empire is growing. A video can be edited on so many ways and we all know which parts the fans will keep for posterity, which parts they will ignore (who now even branded themselves as lobsters for some reason), and all of that matters little, because he is not an intellectual but a preacher. And the choir has him as some father figure, a bunch of lost boys who felt betrayed by women by whatever method and who are generally aimless (a friend of mine is exactly of this kind and finds him very interesting/likes him). What I'm trying to say, and parroting what El Tomboto explained, is that there is absolutely nothing to gain from a debate with this guy, and if it is in your heart to engage with the problem Peterson represents, engage with the individuals that love him so much instead of the Grand Master zhimself.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:03 (six years ago) link
Peterson should just debate a scarecrow since he's usually only arguing strawmen anyway
― Algerian Goalkeeper (Odysseus), Monday, 19 February 2018 21:10 (six years ago) link
w/r/t lobsters: https://theconversation.com/psychologist-jordan-peterson-says-lobsters-help-to-explain-why-human-hierarchies-exist-do-they-90489
― rob, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link
interrogations and arguments change people's minds almost as infrequently as condemnation
― ogmor, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:31 (six years ago) link
so the only way to depopularise jordy p is to...
― imago, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:34 (six years ago) link
wait till they realize the snake oil has changed nothing in their lives.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
@jordanbpeterson I have admired your work for years, sir, and am thrilled at your sudden success. You changed my life years ago and I want to say thank you. Thank you.— Norm Macdonald (@normmacdonald) February 15, 2018
― Clay, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
What's the danger of ignoring how other ppl listen to Jordan peterson
― DUMPKINS! (darraghmac), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:55 (six years ago) link
might miss the odd lazy zing idk
― Big Ched aka The Cheesedriver (Noodle Vague), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
Fuck ya
You know just where to aim
― DUMPKINS! (darraghmac), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
xp the same way you change your thinking about anything, by getting more expansive, either by going deeper in & teasing it out or, if you have ppl's attention, by elucidating a more convincing view attractively
― ogmor, Monday, 19 February 2018 23:20 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 06:25 (six years ago) link
convince the world that he was the guy who did "dur dur d'etre bebe"
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 07:46 (six years ago) link
News nobody everybody saw coming: Milo dropping lawsuit against former publisher
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
aww but he was doing such a good job of defending himself
― NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
lol I didn't even know his garbage book came out
― omar little, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
And all it cost him was $$$s and the chance for us all to learn that even the clueless editors at S&S who commissioned the book thought he was a risible, terrible, moronic writer.
― too notch (stevie), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link
man, FUCK norm macdonald
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:55 (six years ago) link
milol
― maura, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 16:33 (six years ago) link
Milo is selling supplements on Infowars. This is not a drill. pic.twitter.com/zieQXOqtRi— Ross McCafferty (@RossMcCaff) February 21, 2018
― i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 21 February 2018 16:52 (six years ago) link
Milo's entire purpose to the right wing condensed into a 16 sec clip pic.twitter.com/qWvvdpxgbm— PeterNorway (@classiclib3ral) February 22, 2018
― too notch (stevie), Thursday, 22 February 2018 10:21 (six years ago) link
talking about this today in my new job which i started last week
MIlo worked here for a couple of months (2013ish need to check). CEO went on holiday with him in Nassau
― anvil, Thursday, 22 February 2018 22:02 (six years ago) link
NOBODY is talking about how the online depression community has been infiltrated by alt-right recruiters deliberately preying on the vulnerable. There NEED to be public warnings about this. 'Online pals' have attempted to groom me multiple times when at my absolute lowest.— Mister Happy Die Happy (@MrHappyDieHappy) February 23, 2018
― Milton Parker, Monday, 26 February 2018 09:47 (six years ago) link
long thread in there
― Milton Parker, Monday, 26 February 2018 09:48 (six years ago) link
Is there a way to try to get this young man help? At the end of the thread he keeps saying he is going to kill himself.
― treeship 2, Monday, 26 February 2018 12:32 (six years ago) link
at least arm him and get him to take out a few alt right recruiters before he goes
― smashong pumpgong (Noodle Vague), Monday, 26 February 2018 12:36 (six years ago) link
not funny imo
― Doctor Casino, Monday, 26 February 2018 13:17 (six years ago) link
I’m guessing the popularity of the thread will lead ppl to reach out to him. still, it’s jarring in our online age to have ppl make red flag statements like that and the vast majority of the responses breeze past them
― treeship 2, Monday, 26 February 2018 14:43 (six years ago) link
twitter is blocked on my computer - what's the nature of this infiltration? message boards? i know alt right people have infiltrated all sorts of communities, typically older communities with lax moderation - i think they've completely taken over, for instance, gamefaqs. i don't know what the online depression community is like, because i've never wanted to actively seek the company of other depressed people (it just works out like that in practice)
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Monday, 26 February 2018 15:06 (six years ago) link
2018 is crazy
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 17:31 (six years ago) link
a couple commenters mention that it's similar to scientology; another parallel that's not mentioned is the general disdain for therapists and psychologists among this crowd, to the point of discouraging people from seeing them ("go see a therapist" may be a cliche in certain communities and advice sites, but it's way better a cliche than the opposite)
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 26 February 2018 18:36 (six years ago) link
might align with masculine attitudes toward talk therapy, that it's a waste of time & money, something that only women do, being unable to open up to someone.
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 18:46 (six years ago) link
that's definitely a big part of it - "you're not the problem, snowflake society is the problem, so you don't need to be cured you need to get angry"
― smashong pumpgong (Noodle Vague), Monday, 26 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link
it's pretty obvious why a politics based on bigotry and blame wouldn't be too interested in self-analysis
― smashong pumpgong (Noodle Vague), Monday, 26 February 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link
this bullshit bias against talk therapy extends outside rightwing worlds, it's really depressing. only logical argument against it is prohibitive cost for some
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 18:56 (six years ago) link
oh sure they're not the only naysayers and there's all kinds of nuanced arguments to be had about the value of therapy and its structure as in industry but it's clear why the redpill crowd are agin it
― smashong pumpgong (Noodle Vague), Monday, 26 February 2018 18:59 (six years ago) link
yeah there's sometimes a kernel of that (a lot of people in these communities self identify as "NEETs") but it isn't the entire story or even the biggest factor
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 26 February 2018 18:59 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 February 2018 19:01 (six years ago) link
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/chuck-johnson-survivor-audition-tape_us_5a952956e4b02cb368c568be
― maura, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 21:48 (six years ago) link
The clash of titans. The great debate of our age.Who is the real enemy - postmodern neo-marxists, or neo-marxist postmodernists? pic.twitter.com/OTo6SoKIRx— Rocko's Modern Basilisk 🏴 (@InnerPartisan) February 26, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 22:09 (six years ago) link
gotcha! the real enemy is white men
― maura, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 22:10 (six years ago) link
Oh my god. The Orpheum?
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 22:22 (six years ago) link
"philosophy", I may never stop vomiting
― Dan I., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 02:48 (six years ago) link
barf
re: "postmodern neo-marxists", I consider this the final word on that
hi i'm a postmodern marxist. that means i believe in the deconstruction of the master narrative and the proliferation of perspectives, but also, somehow, simultaneously, believe only in marxism.— your friend john (@johnsemley3000) January 25, 2018
― Simon H., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 02:55 (six years ago) link
Your friend John is otm. And anyone who has a problem with that position should read Sloterdijks Critique of Cynical Reason.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 10:12 (six years ago) link
whinging about postmodernism is like whinging about oxygen tbh
― https://cdn1.umg3.net/95/files/2018/01/BANNER.jpg (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 10:22 (six years ago) link
Again, otm. Fuck the metamodernists, though...
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 10:24 (six years ago) link
cute story from the Bay Area
Ten times in the last six month, Revolution Books, the far left bookstore in the Telegraph Channing Mall, has found itself under attack from far-right activists.
The latest skirmish was Sat. March 4, the one-year anniversary of the pro-Trump rally in Martin Luther King Jr. Park that saw people on the right and Antifa and BAMN activists duking it out for control. A group of people who called themselves “Berkeley Warriors” on a live Facebook feed came from Sacramento and stormed the store.
“Fucking Commie scum,” one demonstrator, Rob Cantrall, said on a video taken by bookstore staff while Reiko Redmonde, a volunteer manager at the store, tried to prevent him and others from entering. “You are commie scum. We are going to burn down your bookstore. You know that, right?”
https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/03/07/right-wing-activists-target-berkeleys-revolution-books
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 March 2018 17:13 (six years ago) link
This headline from the LA Review of Books is so great I'm almost afraid to read the piece for fear of almost certainly being let down.
A Messiah-cum-Surrogate-Dad for Gormless Dimwits: On Jordan B. Peterson’s “12 Rules for Life”
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 9 March 2018 02:52 (six years ago) link
Real life feels like The Screwfly Solution. Mass delusion and violent hysteria
― Dan I., Friday, 9 March 2018 04:01 (six years ago) link
“The intellectual heirs to the obnoxious right-wing shock-jocks of yesteryear” is a good line from that LARB piece
― maura, Friday, 9 March 2018 08:31 (six years ago) link
How are teenage boys even hearing about Jordan Peterson in the first place? Does he show up as a suggestion in a youtube Overwatch playlist or something? Twitch advertising? It's terrifying that young men are apparently such fertile ground for that kind of shit right now.
― Dan I., Monday, 12 March 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
It has to be mostly Youtube. All kinds of stuff on Youtube leads towards Jordan Peterson. Pew Die Pie was holding up a copy of his book last month.
― jmm, Monday, 12 March 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link
At least in Canada, he has been getting a ridiculous amount of mainstream media coverage for years at this point. The National Post opinion pages were practically functioning as his cheerleading squad for a while. P sure it would be easier than it was for teenage boys to hear about Chomsky in the 90s. xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 12 March 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link
last night I was in a coffee shop and the girl next to me was watching many Jordan Peterson videos. I was confused
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 12 March 2018 15:44 (six years ago) link
Adverts for his book are all over the fucking London Underground
― imago, Monday, 12 March 2018 15:48 (six years ago) link
Prepping for a blind date?
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 12 March 2018 15:50 (six years ago) link
The apparently authentic enthusiasm for JP among young people--as well as its magnitude and reach--might be the most distressing thing for me since Trump was elected. If the kids aren't alright, I'm running out of things to feel optimistic about
― Dan I., Monday, 12 March 2018 16:07 (six years ago) link
My preferred response when encountering such: https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ab9df7b8-db3b-4772-982f-bdf8e9e5c90e
― Moo Vaughn, Monday, 12 March 2018 16:07 (six years ago) link
gonna hope coffee shop girl was watching jp vids as part of a 'know your enemy' manouevre
― I’m 16 and a member of UKIP’s youth wing, young independence (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 March 2018 16:10 (six years ago) link
quick survey of the youth in my experience is that v v few are paying attention to JP but every one of them will start a band
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 12 March 2018 16:14 (six years ago) link
i just pray every day that none of my students tries to drop some jp ~noledge~ on me
― j., Monday, 12 March 2018 16:14 (six years ago) link
jp's stupid fucking voice has ruined 'the rainbow connection' forevermore and for that along he should be dropped down a well
― I’m 16 and a member of UKIP’s youth wing, young independence (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 12 March 2018 16:15 (six years ago) link
er, that alone
Wait, that's truly the same guy?? I just thought it was some self-help guru with the same name! The quotes they excerpt are more feel good facebook meme than alt right screed.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 March 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
xxp don't let him ruin kermit (a prince)
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 March 2018 16:26 (six years ago) link
the title of the video I saw was something like "Why Men Are Going Their Own Way" (it wasn't worded that way but it definitely had the same sentiment) so I sure hope so
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 12 March 2018 16:58 (six years ago) link
oh good that's just a fleetwood mac cover and lyric video, JP sitting in his bedroom studio behind a pop shield crying about someone he met on match.com that called him a dildo while he was eating noodles
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:07 (six years ago) link
dildos are more useful than jordan peterson
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:13 (six years ago) link
The quotes they excerpt are more feel good facebook meme than alt right screed.
I think combining these different sides is part of the reason for his popularity. He has credibility for many young men as a source of life advice because they see him as being on the right side of the culture war against feminists and trans people.
Meanwhile, some who are leery of the alt-right see at least something compelling in what he says about psychology, mythology, archetypes, etc., and so they go to bat for him in trying to disentangle it all.
― jmm, Monday, 12 March 2018 17:17 (six years ago) link
otm esp on that second point
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 March 2018 17:23 (six years ago) link
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, March 12, 2018 12:13 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
facts
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:31 (six years ago) link
xxp so he's like rupi kaur
― j., Monday, 12 March 2018 17:38 (six years ago) link
rupi kaur for edgelord shitposters
this kind of ties back into the whole anti-psychiatry and anti-medication element of it: therapists may be bad, but jordan peterson isn't
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 12 March 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
yikes.
― Nhex, Monday, 12 March 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/10/opinion/sunday/youtube-politics-radical.html
this sorta seems relevant
― gbx, Monday, 12 March 2018 20:05 (six years ago) link
White does mention a fondness for the controversial author and YouTube philosopher Jordan Peterson, though he's apparently only seen him talking about religion. "He's got more intelligence in his brain than his body can handle," he says. Later, I mention the anti-feminist, anti-political-correctness screeds for which Peterson is also known. "I didn't know about that," White says. "Maybe we should drop that whole thing now!"
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/jack-white-cover-story-new-album-white-stripes-w517705
― maura, Monday, 12 March 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link
rmde
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Monday, 12 March 2018 22:40 (six years ago) link
thats the funniest shit ive seen in a minute
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 12 March 2018 22:49 (six years ago) link
jesus goddamn christ
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 12 March 2018 23:10 (six years ago) link
tomato, tomato, potato, fascism, let's call the whole thing off
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 12 March 2018 23:16 (six years ago) link
Here’s something:
https://m.mic.com/articles/188397/richard-spencer-suspending-the-rest-of-his-college-tour-because-antifa-is-winning#.PGriurKlx
He been r-u-n-n-o-f-t!
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 12 March 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
That’s where I live and work; I was out of town last week but followed along on Twitter. Some small number of nazis met up with 500+ protestors, only about 10 people made it into his talk and like half of those were journalists. And all this happened on the first day of spring break in a cow barn in the middle of nowhere. His meeting / conference scheduled for the previous day in the Detroit burbs never happened as the venues cancelled when they figured out who had made the reservations, antifa folks were tailing them around and hassling them while they were awaiting directions and one Nazi got arrested for pulling a gun on someone. Was kind of bummed about moving back to Michigan last year but pleased if this is the thing that shuts down this aspect of his bullshit.
― joygoat, Monday, 12 March 2018 23:51 (six years ago) link
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/white-nationalist-matt-heimbach-arrested-domestic-violence-charges
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 13 March 2018 23:49 (six years ago) link
God, Jordan Peterson has come to Denmark. His podcast is apparently popular.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 01:06 (six years ago) link
The Heimbach story is something else.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 02:25 (six years ago) link
ohohoho what that TPM story doesn't say is
Matt Heimbach, leader of the neo-nazi Traditionalist Worker Party, was arrested after police say he assaulted his wife, Brooke. Brooke's father-in-law, Matt Parrott, discovered Heimbach having an affair with his wife, Jessica Parrott, before the incident. https://t.co/88UBEh2FXg— Unicorn Riot (@UR_Ninja) March 14, 2018
Matt Parrott was also Heimbach's second-in-command in the Traditionalist Worker Party, acting as a media spokesman and systems administrator. He has since taken the neo-nazi group's website, which he had been running, offline. https://t.co/88UBEh2FXg pic.twitter.com/kAh8YWWRbh— Unicorn Riot (@UR_Ninja) March 14, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 03:34 (six years ago) link
Cucks, all?
― YouTube_-_funy_cats.flv (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 04:08 (six years ago) link
Whomst is the check?
Wasn't this the guy who got a tongue-bath profile in the New York Times earlier this year?
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 11:49 (six years ago) link
heimbach actually has a lot of times mentions! https://www.google.com/search?q=heimbach+nyt&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS692US692&oq=heimbach+nyt&aqs=chrome..69i57.5166j0j9&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
― maura, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 13:55 (six years ago) link
who supremes the supremacists
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:04 (six years ago) link
ok how the fuck is Jessica Parrot a real name?
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:07 (six years ago) link
https://s1.thcdn.com/productimg/960/960/11539264-7294512067807017.jpg
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:09 (six years ago) link
The arrest followed a bizarre sequence of events stemming from an extramarital affair Heimbach was conducting with his wife’s step-mother-in-law, according to the police report.
The white nationalist leader is married to the step-daughter of Matt Parrott, the Traditionalist Worker Party’s chief spokesman. Per the police report, Heimbach attacked both Parrott and his own wife, Brooke Heimbach, after the pair confronted Matthew Heimbach about an affair he was carrying out with Matt Parrott’s wife, Jessica.
The group all live in the same trailer park compound in rural Paoli, Indiana, where the Traditionalist Worker Party is based. In statements to the police, all four listed their professions as “white nationalists.”
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/matthew-heimbach-police-report-domestic-battery-affair
― maura, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
better days https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/10/us/alt-right-national-socialist-movement-white-supremacy.html
that poor kid
― maura, Wednesday, 14 March 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
Thread on the possible evolution of alt-right/fash groups in the wake of recent failures:
I hope I’m not boring anyone with this Generation Identity nonsense, I believe it’s coming our way, and regardless of its impact we should study the games crypto-fascist movements play. https://t.co/cVoR1ewIJY— zerf 🐑🐑🐑 herder (@hfricken) March 12, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 15 March 2018 00:09 (six years ago) link
― gbx
i installed a plugin to keep youtube from recommending videos to me years ago. it kept recommending me white supremacist videos whenever i would watch classical music videos or video game speedruns.
i think the world would be well-served if governments would install a plugin to keep youtube from recommending videos to their citizens.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 15 March 2018 00:18 (six years ago) link
i know that's proto-fascist of me but i am just so fed up today with human beings' utter inability to think critically that i'm trying to have all ideas banned. (yesterday i was trying to have time outlawed.)
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 15 March 2018 00:20 (six years ago) link
it kept recommending me white supremacist videos whenever i would watch classical music videos or video game speedruns.
lmao what else were you watching
― flappy bird, Thursday, 15 March 2018 04:30 (six years ago) link
trenchant commentary bait if ever there was
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 15 March 2018 04:34 (six years ago) link
One way to get those into your recommended feed is to watch videos debunking/calling to action against white nationalism. This happened to me with MRAs - watch a couple of videos by feminist YouTubers and suddenly your recommendation feed is nothing but "this man DEMOLISHES feminism with flawless logic".
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 15 March 2018 09:09 (six years ago) link
they all started popping up in mine after i google "toilet seat"
― the clodding of the american mind (darraghmac), Thursday, 15 March 2018 09:56 (six years ago) link
Zeynep Tufekci wrote about this in the Times last week.
― maura, Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:26 (six years ago) link
Whoops sorry about the double post.
But yeah YouTube recommendations are a tire fire. I nix any that aren't hard rock or R&B videos because I get enough crazy conspiracy mongering from the comments section of the one gossip blog I read. (Those people are still banging on about The St*rm—they think that Trump's bungling is actually a front to take down a worldwide network of sexual predators. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so fucking depressingly frightening.)
― maura, Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:28 (six years ago) link
Thousands of sealed indictments! Millions of them!
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:36 (six years ago) link
maura's last sentence covers the whole state of "ideas" on the internet in 2018
― as the crows around me grows (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:37 (six years ago) link
"Wagner, Max, Wagner - so I know what he's really tryin' to tell me very significantly. Wagner."
^^^^ this
― papa don't take no meth (stevie), Thursday, 15 March 2018 11:41 (six years ago) link
Any clip from a mafia movie or tv show of any reasonable quality has alt-right creeps j'ing each other off in the comments as well.
― Three Word Username, Thursday, 15 March 2018 12:01 (six years ago) link
Surprise, these guys are all horrible creeps
https://www.thedailybeast.com/alt-right-youtuber-accused-of-luring-autistic-teen-in-pregnancy-plot?ref=home
― Simon H., Thursday, 15 March 2018 13:13 (six years ago) link
Will Sommer’s been doing good work tracking these guys. Things got weirder when Reddit banned the Qanon subreddit.
The QAnon voice chat is all middle-aged people trying to figure out "how to use memes." Says one: "I STILL can't find the memes."— Will Sommer (@willsommer) March 14, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 16 March 2018 14:35 (six years ago) link
oh god a qanon-themed voice chat? that sounds like literal hell
― in conclusion, it is good to peel the sheeps (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 March 2018 14:36 (six years ago) link
I, too, STILL can't find the memes.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 16 March 2018 14:59 (six years ago) link
Will Sommer is a hero, that's for sure.
― maura, Friday, 16 March 2018 15:00 (six years ago) link
thats v good
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 16 March 2018 19:01 (six years ago) link
Nathan Robinson wrote a mocking the guy pretty hard so Jordan P naturally posted a freakout thread about it:
Very critical article by @NathanJRobinson of my work (including Maps of Meaning) in Current Affairs (https://t.co/AVpRVDs43A) is accompanied most hilariously by this ad... pic.twitter.com/4Ly0pdW25S— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) March 16, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 16 March 2018 23:34 (six years ago) link
A mocking post, rather
Nathan J Robinson presumably ready and waiting for the attack dogs
― imago, Friday, 16 March 2018 23:36 (six years ago) link
maybe he becomes a cult figure too, the Adversary
Paoli, Indiana is the middle of nowhere. It's a nice little farm town that has a town center out of Mayberry, mostly known for a place where you can ski (believe it or not). It's about 1/2 way between Bloomington and Louisville. I'd figure it has to be pretty tore up by heroin probably like much of this area of the country.
― earlnash, Friday, 16 March 2018 23:50 (six years ago) link
Says one: "I STILL can't find the memes."
— Will Sommer (@willsommer) March 14, 2018
thereby instantly transforming himself into a meme
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 16 March 2018 23:52 (six years ago) link
― earlnash
however, it's hard to confirm this because of the difficulty of finding anybody who would willingly travel to small-town indiana
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 16 March 2018 23:54 (six years ago) link
I frikkin love Nathan Robinson
― gbx, Saturday, 17 March 2018 00:47 (six years ago) link
Yeah, the tweet from JP is hilarious in context. He clearly doesn't know what the book is.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 17 March 2018 00:49 (six years ago) link
my fav part of the article is the list of JP quotes he just starts riffing on
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Saturday, 17 March 2018 01:28 (six years ago) link
“There is no being without imperfection.” No shit.
“The future is the place of all potential monsters.” The future is the place for all potential everything.
“People do not care whether or not they succeed; they care about whether or not they fail.” Which is apparently different.
“People aren’t after happiness, they’re after not hurting.” I’m actually after happiness, thanks.
“You cannot be protected from the things that frighten you and hurt you, but if you identify with the part of your being that is responsible for transformation, then you are always the equal, or more than the equal of the things that frighten you.” Unless you are frightened of leopards, and are subsequently eaten by leopards.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Saturday, 17 March 2018 01:31 (six years ago) link
i totally havent been paying attention to JP, i forgot he was the toronto guy who was acting all shitty over trans ppl wanting to be called by their actual pronouns, hahaahaaaaa of course the alt right loves him
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Saturday, 17 March 2018 01:39 (six years ago) link
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, March 16, 2018 7:54 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i like indiana...
― flappy bird, Saturday, 17 March 2018 05:18 (six years ago) link
But here I am already giving Peterson’s work a more coherent summary than it actually deserves. And after all, if “many human stories have common moral lessons” was his point, he would have been saying something so obvious that nobody would think to credit it as a novel insight.
This was my takeaway from trying to read Nassim Taleb's book - who is not quite as deeply connected to the alt-right as Peterson but definitely adjacent
― louise ck (milo z), Saturday, 17 March 2018 05:40 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird
sorry, i'm an ex-hoosier as of last year, for a while i'll have the same opinions on indiana as a recent ex-catholic has on catholicism
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Saturday, 17 March 2018 14:04 (six years ago) link
exterminate! fake news! MAGA! exterminate! exterminate!
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 17 March 2018 18:18 (six years ago) link
That Robinson article, good stuff
― Nhex, Saturday, 17 March 2018 22:00 (six years ago) link
There's always a fatal flaw when "white supremacist" and "intellectual leader" comes together. It's like saying you're the lead particle physicist for the local sewage treatment plant. https://t.co/bjWyhI5C1O— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) March 18, 2018
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 18 March 2018 16:12 (six years ago) link
Lol truth. There are no clever racists
― as the crows around me grows (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 18 March 2018 16:16 (six years ago) link
This is a decent article (warning: link takes you to The Intercept)
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 18 March 2018 18:03 (six years ago) link
A fun review of JP’s book, with an assist from Shuja Haider:
https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-194-fck-12-feat-shuja-haider-and-elon-musk-31818
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 19 March 2018 22:34 (six years ago) link
― tsrobodo, Monday, 19 March 2018 22:43 (six years ago) link
yeah i find that so dumb. some really smart people are racist.
― Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Monday, 19 March 2018 23:17 (six years ago) link
william d hamilton was a smart guy.
he wrote this
"it seems to me one of the most paradoxical of all the many impacts Judaism has had on the present world that it is the cousins (at least in a broad ethnic sense) of the very people who claim, on the authority of ancient writings, a right to deprive other Middle Easterners of their land and freedom, who generate from among their intellectuals the arguments that convince the rest of us that panhumanism is a worthy ideal and that the course that follows from it is Homo's best hope for the future. A long list of examples could easily be given: I could start, for example, with Karl Popper and his book The Open Society and Its Enemies and I could end with books of Richard Lewontin and Stephen Jay Gould. It seems to be particularly these men of Jewish origin (not, however, orthodox followers of the faith as a rule) who seek to persuade us that race differences are non-existent and everyone can mate with everyone in confidence of equally capable children."
some really smart people are racist.
This is true. But professional racists (people who have made their racism the core of their public identity—Richard Spencer, David Duke, et al.) are all dumb as shit.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 19 March 2018 23:23 (six years ago) link
racism is inherently stupid therefore
not that smart/stupid is a binary proposition anyway, but sincerely holding racist beliefs is way up there on the stupidometer
― as the crows around me grows (Noodle Vague), Monday, 19 March 2018 23:39 (six years ago) link
racism religion is inherently stupid therefore
not that smart/stupid is a binary proposition anyway, but sincerely holding racist religious beliefs is way up there on the stupidometer
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 19 March 2018 23:51 (six years ago) link
Wait what’s happening now
― valorous wokelord (silby), Monday, 19 March 2018 23:52 (six years ago) link
Intelligence has no bearing on how dumb a belief you can hold, b/c beliefs don’t always form that way.
Also being hella intelligent + hella racist = early 20th C support for eugenics and sterilization
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 00:02 (six years ago) link
http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 06:32 (six years ago) link
it's a good article, but I found Peterson's response fairly persuasive:
And you call me a fascist? You sanctimonious prick. If you were in my room at the moment, I'd slap you happily. https://t.co/sC3Lc9Hhlu— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) March 20, 2018
― while my dirk gently weeps (symsymsym), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 06:54 (six years ago) link
In Peterson's own words, “Toughen up, you weasel.”
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 09:13 (six years ago) link
snowflake triggered
Lobster Boy Is Not Owned pic.twitter.com/PGkMhy0Enp— Dawn Foster (@DawnHFoster) March 20, 2018
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 09:49 (six years ago) link
it’s always the real men who feel the most pain
― maura, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 11:54 (six years ago) link
if only
― ogmor, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 11:58 (six years ago) link
"I will hit U" is what someone says who knows they've lost the debate.
― zchyrs, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:38 (six years ago) link
I don't know what's more incredible: this guy's overall level of gooniness, or that he has the following that he does.
― zchyrs, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
He's not going away, either. The CBC just brought him on last night to weigh in (poorly) on the Ontario provincial election, for some goddamn reason.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:41 (six years ago) link
Meantime
lmao Paul Nehlen's campaign is now too anti-Semitic for white supremacists Jared Taylor and American Renaissance pic.twitter.com/bGra5uznoQ— Lachlan Markay (@lachlan) March 20, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
Jared Taylor and the American Renaissance: worst bar band ever
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:47 (six years ago) link
Sounds like a tribute band that is doomed to failure tbh.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 13:49 (six years ago) link
their decision to focus exclusively on material from the mccarty-relf era is what really doomed them
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:09 (six years ago) link
getting a lot of enjoyment out of perpetually-weeping, kermit-voiced scarecrow jordan peterson threatening physical violence on social media
what a time to be alive
― in conclusion, it is good to peel the sheeps (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:12 (six years ago) link
a shame pankaj mishra isn't on twitter to tweet back PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE CAR AND PREPARE TO DIE
― ogmor, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
Great article by Mishra. The historical reflections are especially good.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:20 (six years ago) link
lol Grauniad and all, but this from the weekend by Mishra covers a lot of similar ground in entertaining fashionhttps://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/mar/17/the-crisis-in-modern-masculinity
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
its not easy, being greenhaving to spend each day the colour of the leavesand ppl tend to pass you overcos you're not standing out like flashy sparkles in the wateror stars in the sky
― (robot gives Mum a hot dirty slap) (Bananaman Begins), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
the other day, the motherfucking kindle store showed me a J Peterson book in the Recommended For You bar across the bottom of the home page on my paperwhitei'm still mad
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 15:05 (six years ago) link
A very good point about Jordan Peterson's whole "people want to blame the world for their problems" nonsense. pic.twitter.com/7LYxVMnRaU— Bhaskar Sunkara (@sunraysunray) March 19, 2018
perhaps
― j., Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:36 (six years ago) link
yeah idk about that ime ppl will do anything to avoid blaming themselves for anything
― Mordy, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:39 (six years ago) link
― zchyrs, Tuesday, March 20, 2018 1:38 PM (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:43 (six years ago) link
Though it's more like what someone who lacks the capability to engage on the same level says.
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:44 (six years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, March 20, 2018 9:39 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yup. Total bullshit.
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:46 (six years ago) link
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest neither you nor Mordy have actually done the reading
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:52 (six years ago) link
what reading do i need to do i read the entire tweet
― Mordy, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 21:58 (six years ago) link
You were so post to read the screenshot...
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:00 (six years ago) link
Nevermind, I fucked that up.
People do avoid blaming themselves but they also cling to their own agency something fierce - the idea that you're limited only by yourself, that if you work hard enough you can achieve anything, is super comforting and super popular. So that tweet isn't entirely off-base.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:06 (six years ago) link
I just watched the video of his comments to the Sun. They almost fully convinced me to vote Liberal.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:08 (six years ago) link
No, it is entirely off-base, and it's doing the exact same thing that Jordan Peterson apparently does, only substituting 'late capitalism' or whatever for women and minorities and pointy-heads.
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:09 (six years ago) link
Hence, the BernieTrumpBro continuum
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:10 (six years ago) link
Wtf?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
lol ok
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:19 (six years ago) link
moo you do know that the vast majority of bernie people voted for hillary right? barring insane outliers the phenomenon you're describing isn't one
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:40 (six years ago) link
fuck I have to fp myself for taking the bait there. sorry everyone
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:42 (six years ago) link
Oh, I should've made clear: I was talking to Mordy, not you.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
Of course there are other ways to run away from being wrong besides "I'll fight you."
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
And to drill down, you're talking about peoples' proclivity for *crediting* themselves, while the tweeter is talking about their proclivity for *blaming* themselves.
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:02 (six years ago) link
that's your projection of "all people ever" which ignores gigantic swathes of modern science about the brain and how humans think of themselves and others
so pvmic, really
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:05 (six years ago) link
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, March 20, 2018 3:10 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
how has this cunt not made it to 51 yet?
― Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
BernieBro uses the c word, film at 11.
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, March 20, 2018 5:09 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:07 (six years ago) link
― Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, March 20, 2018 4:06 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm scottish and i don't care about bernie sanders
― Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:09 (six years ago) link
bernie sanders would be a centrist gun nut where i come from
jp's comment is equally trite i think but not bc he has it precisely backwards (like that tweet suggests) but more bc ppl blame themselves and others on multiple levels (something as a jungian you'd think he'd know) and sometimes cover for each other. we blame ourselves bc we fear that we're powerless (the corollary to the assertion that we cling to the idea that we can make a positive intervention in our own lives) and we blame others bc we fear that we are personally deficient. but the idea that jp has some nietzchean ubermensch alternative he's offering to these cycle of recriminations seems belied by the fact that he just has other specious recriminations (like against the ppl who blame 'capitalism' instead of themselves). i don't buy tho that blaming others is somehow difficult for the human being just listen the next time someone has a list of excuses for why something happened and who is to blame.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 20 March 2018 23:10 (six years ago) link
let's check in and see how the @jordanbpeterson subreddit is taking his twitter meltdown pic.twitter.com/OYcBqMBpb0— JD-800 💽 (@thejd800) March 20, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 00:50 (six years ago) link
yikes
― maura, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 01:12 (six years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/lobbyist-says-he-was-nearly-killed-by-man-he-hired-to-investigate-seth-richs-death/2018/03/19/a4261e48-2baa-11e8-8688-e053ba58f1e4_story.html
― Moo Vaughn, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 01:25 (six years ago) link
that's some amazing can't-even shit
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 01:29 (six years ago) link
Lol:
asked about what to do about climate change if activism is a terrible idea that leads to the end of Western civilization, Jordan Peterson replies: "how did you get to this event? Did you drive here?"the interviewer says: "uh, no, public transport"which stumps Peterson pic.twitter.com/165hz0iWGY— ☀️👀 (@zei_nabq) March 15, 2018
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:10 (six years ago) link
goddamned shame the "investigator" couldn't finish the job, and i'm not talking about finding Seth Rich's killer.
these fucking clowns.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:19 (six years ago) link
"I thought I had the story of the decade,” Burkman recalled. His wife, Susan, was more skeptical. She warned him that she didn’t think he was dealing with the FBI. But, he said, the emails “looked super real,"
how in the actual fuck is this person not living in a box under a bridge
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:21 (six years ago) link
I urge his wife to not, in fact, stand by her man.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:53 (six years ago) link
Burkman said he is now traveling with security. But the experience has not soured him on conspiracy theories. His profiling project concluded that Rich was shot by a hired killer, and he wonders if Doherty was working for someone else.
You know, seems to me you can pull a realllll long con on this guy.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:55 (six years ago) link
"Now I know the fourth guy you hired was put up the shadowy forces behind the third guy but the FIFTH guy, trust me."
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 03:56 (six years ago) link
we blame ourselves bc we fear that we're powerless (the corollary to the assertion that we cling to the idea that we can make a positive intervention in our own lives) and we blame others bc we fear that we are personally deficient.
yes it seems weird to debate whether it's easier for ppl to "imagine they could have succeeded if they did something different" or easier to believe that they failed due to external factors beyond their control, when surely what most ppl are afraid of is the third option, that you failed because you personally are inherently and irremediably inadequate, defective - the first two options both give you the comfort that you *could* have succeeded under the right circumstances
― soref, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 07:22 (six years ago) link
as Daniel said upthread, blame or no blame, i think most people believe in their own agency and believe that other people's lives reflect their personal worth at a deep, barely examined level
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 07:59 (six years ago) link
I know this is maybe too obvious to be worth saying, but when JP and his acolytes push back against this supposed SJW worldview where 'people blame the world for their problems', it's more about pushing back against an acknowledgement that inequalities of outcome between different genders/ethnicities/classes etc are a result of structural inequalities rather than anything that happens at the individual level, whether effort or inherent aptitude?
so the question of whether or not it's comforting to accept these structural inequalities depends on who you are - if you are from a marginalised group then seeing the world this way absolves you of responsibility for failures, if you are from a privileged group it does the opposite, if you couldn't succeed even with these structural inequalities working in your favour then that's an indictment of you at a personal level?
imo lot of the time internet social justice discourse is big on moralising individual responsibility for success or failure and personal excellence, identifying mediocre white men etc. and there's this idea that the straight white men who are hostile to social justice are the one's whose personal inadequacies mean they couldn't succeed without unfair structural advantages, contrasted with adept straight white men who would be able to succeed regardless
― soref, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 08:03 (six years ago) link
Yeah, that popular line of SJ discourse does strike me as a little strange and even wilfully cruel.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 12:37 (six years ago) link
Oh yes. So popular that line is. I also can't remember how many hours I've spent in the secret SJW meetings identifying mediocre white men.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 12:41 (six years ago) link
https://www.google.com/search?q=mediocre+white+men&client=safari&rls=en&ei=cFOyWs2PN5KK5wLf77Qg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1168&bih=609
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 12:44 (six years ago) link
let's not be beastly to the white men
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:00 (six years ago) link
Wouldn't have expected you to defend such a meritocratic pov
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:03 (six years ago) link
I mean, it's not beastly at all to (the presumably easily identifiable) excellent white men.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:07 (six years ago) link
It's beginning to fall out of fashion (I think), but the "you're losing at life on the easiest difficulty setting" and its variants were pretty popular in certain circles for a while
― Simon H., Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:13 (six years ago) link
why shouldn't they be. why is it always these little turds' feelings that are paramount
― Dan I., Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:14 (six years ago) link
It's a meme. A joke. And, btw, quite a lot at the insecure women's expense as well. It's not something that people spend a lot of time on. It doesn't need your concern trolling.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:15 (six years ago) link
Simon, when were you in those circles? Because I've literally never spent any times in the feminist groups I've been in on that. I've seen women being annoyed at being passed over by less accomplished men. A lot. But that's not quite the same thing.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:16 (six years ago) link
It's possible to dislike a meme or joke. I'm not sure you know what concern trolling is.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:23 (six years ago) link
It's a meme. A joke.
lmao from what other corners have I heard the "we're just having a laugh" argument
Idc about chuds' feelings and I don't think it's "concern trolling" to say that some arguments (or jokes) are not going to be v effective in bringing people onside. I get that's not always the point.
― Simon H., Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:30 (six years ago) link
feels a bit like we're missing the forest for the trees. the bigger-picture contribution of so-called SJWs has surely been to highlight the "difficulty settings" themselves, not the "losers." i mean essentially we're looking at a popularization and memeification of understanding structural racism, structural sexism, etc., known to countless humanities undergrads for generations. so many little comics explaining privilege, new variations on the "invisible knapsack," and so on. individuals reaching for zings at members of privileged groups surely exist but that seems idk super minor.
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:33 (six years ago) link
depends which groups you belong to obv
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:34 (six years ago) link
I wasn't really saying that this meme is the primary focus of race and gender activists, or that it discounts the whole project, just that it's a popular meme that I don't think really works.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:36 (six years ago) link
I don't think it's "concern trolling" to say that some arguments (or jokes) are not going to be v effective in bringing people onside. I get that's not always the point.
― Simon H., 21. marts 2018 14:30 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You get it :)
it's a popular meme that I don't think really works.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), 21. marts 2018 14:36 (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You don't
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
i think it's wrong to be needlessly mean to people but on the other hand i don't have much faith in the idea that people in positions of power/privilege will voluntarily give it up en masse thru a process of enlightened persuasion
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
If we want to talk about things working or not, I don't think spending an inordinate amount of time policing womens jokes will do much in the creation of a progressive political coalition.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:44 (six years ago) link
politely discussing on a msg board is my fave form of policing
― Simon H., Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:47 (six years ago) link
Mine as well
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:48 (six years ago) link
Lol @ an hour on a message board while waiting on hold = "policing for an inordinate amount of time". The reasons why I don't think it works don't have to do with strategy or coalition-building btw. 2xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 13:49 (six years ago) link
I’ve always figured that MWM snark was helpful in reminding me to check myself and as a series of illustrative examples. Also I’m definitely sympathetic because I’ve always worked around and for pretty powerful white dudes whose crowning qualification for anything was being morning people.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 14:01 (six years ago) link
It def makes me remember how many breaks I got back when I was a mediocre film critic.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 14:03 (six years ago) link
Well, I'm going to shut up and listen to white men, then. They mostly seem OK with this (although they might not be mediocre enough). xp I defer to your mediocrity.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 14:05 (six years ago) link
Anyway, stupid white people!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/satanism-drama-is-tearing-apart-the-murderous-neo-nazi-group-atomwaffen
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 14:35 (six years ago) link
Oh my god
Another Atomwaffen-affiliated person created a Gab account aimed at “exposing” the group’s satanic ties, and started leaking Atomwaffen chat logs, alongside Harry Potter memes. That person linked to audio of a call, purportedly between Atomwaffen members arguing about satanism.“In your opinion, Satanism contradicts the ideals of national socialism, right?” one Atomwaffen member asked another during the debate.“Yeah,” the second man answered.“Okay, I’m not gonna try to get mad and say you’re a fuckin idiot,” the first said. “Like, I want to know legitimately what part of it contradicts the ideals of national socialism.”“Uh, every part. I’ve literally read both those books. Nothing in it stood out to me as—”“Have you read the Satanic Principles?” the first Atomwaffen member interrupted. “The fucking baseline ideas of what Satanism stands for? You cannot honestly read that and tell me it reflects none of what national socialism teaches.”
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 14:56 (six years ago) link
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J41iFYO0NQA/hqdefault.jpg
say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, dude, but at least it's compatible with satanism
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:03 (six years ago) link
“Harry Potter memes” and “literally read both those books,” it’s too much
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
satanists are usually a great bunch of lads ime, kinda sucks that nazis are dragging their good name through the mud like this
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
god i wish i could see those harry potter memes, bet they're dank as fuck
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
i remember when ppl used the term "speech policing" and idpol folks went bananas, "you consider chiding and mockery on the internet to be equivalent of pigs shooting black men in the street???" but i guess that was just a rhetorical tactic and not real moral outrage in hindsight.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 15:53 (six years ago) link
wasn't it 'tone policing' get it right u monster
― imago, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 16:10 (six years ago) link
i can't believe you'd use the term monster what am i walking around w/ bolts in my skull brought to life by lightning? sucking the blood of innocents on the streets of london? some hideous deformed green thing that has emerged from the local swamp???
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 16:12 (six years ago) link
the monster was actually named 'doctor'
― j., Wednesday, 21 March 2018 16:17 (six years ago) link
Some of like the swamp so much we moved here and started families. So what.
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 21 March 2018 16:18 (six years ago) link
Yeah wait I thought Satanists were cool :( are they cancelled?
― flappy bird, Thursday, 22 March 2018 02:45 (six years ago) link
there are two major groups that call themselves Satanists, one of which is cool and the other not so much
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-Anton-LaVeys-Church-of-Satan-and-the-Satanic-Temple
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 22 March 2018 05:41 (six years ago) link
it's more satanic that way
― j., Thursday, 22 March 2018 13:31 (six years ago) link
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world one of him was cool
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:06 (six years ago) link
Good friend of mine was telling me her 10th grade son is getting into this stuff and I didn't know what to tell her, nor do I have any idea what I'd do if my own son got into it when he was older.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:24 (six years ago) link
what, satanism?
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
the internet
― j., Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
I think I was in 9th or 10th grade when I was told about/shown Anton LeVey in the Hoel California gatefold, it made no lasting impresYOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL
― motorpsycho nightmare winningham (Hadrian VIII), Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
Play him the Dollop episode about the rocket scientist satanist guy. The ending should convince him it's actually, uh, not that cool in the final analysis.
― Simon H., Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:30 (six years ago) link
I'm grateful that my youthful ideological indiscretions were only being a dogmatic atheist who read Richard Dawnkins' The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker ostentatiously at school. It's a weird time to grow up.
― ryan, Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:32 (six years ago) link
blowing yourself up in your garage while doing homebrew rocketry after stealing l ron hubbard's money and his girlfriend isn't cool to you?
wtf simon i thought i knew you
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:32 (six years ago) link
(the jack parsons story is incredible tbh, i think we have a thread for him somewhere)
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 14:33 (six years ago) link
sorry i meant my friend's son is getting into alt-right stuff
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:05 (six years ago) link
i'd far prefer a satanist son than an alt-right one
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
that's not really the bit I had in mind lol
― Simon H., Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:13 (six years ago) link
https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/marvel_spotlight_13-600x874.jpg
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:14 (six years ago) link
also, didn't L Ron Hubbard steal HIS wife?
― Simon H., Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:15 (six years ago) link
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:05 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
have you tried calling him a racist sexist bigot homophobe transphobe asshole?
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
maybe see if he has any tweets that will get him kicked out of school
― sleepingbag, Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:17 (six years ago) link
there was a parenting thread on this theme recently (child getting into the alt-right) w/ some varied advice. i think it helps to get where the kid is coming from and what is motivating them. if they're just into the edginess and transgressiveness you'd need to have a different conversation (and steer them differently) then if they're having anxiety about their future, and totally different from if they just hate hypocritical progressives, etc. hopefully parents have been engaging their kids on these kinds of topics for years tho and aren't just getting started when they find /pol/ bookmarked in safari.
― Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:18 (six years ago) link
actually yeah you're right xxp
but either way i'm still not convinced that pointing to the example of the dashingly handsome founder of jpl who lived a life of wild abandon is gonna do much to dissuade young people from exploring satanism
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link
A close friend of mine's 15yo son with autism (mild, but more than aspie) is into this stuff too (alt-right, not satanism). Youtube was definitely the main vector, which is why I brought it up up-thread.
For him, it's obviously not at all about edginess or the shock value or masculinity or the appeal of violence. He's earnest, without that sly disingenuousness (yes, "bad faith") that's the stock-in-trade of every Republican voter.
I think it has to do with a warped sense of fairness, of not understanding the fundamental asymmetries between, for example, the left and the right. The modern world, I guess, is understood only through a narrative lens, where every force is met with another that is understood to be by definition equal and opposite. Things like "good" and "evil" are just tags, just hats that different teams wear. So he gets righteously indignant when a nazi gets punched in the face or not allowed to speak on a campus, because that's not "fair". He can't understand that antifa and nazis aren't just the same guys with different uniforms. His world is so safe that he doesn't understand the stakes. I think that's a big part of why Trump got elected: people wanting to "shake things up" have no conception of how bad things can be. The worst thing they can imagine is a really bad recession; they can't begin to conceive that genocide could happen here, or what totalitarianism actually entails.
― Dan I., Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 15:25 (six years ago) link
time for a visit to the holocaust museum
― j., Thursday, 22 March 2018 16:24 (six years ago) link
― valorous wokelord (silby), Thursday, 22 March 2018 16:26 (six years ago) link
Have a newly (yet unhappily) married friend who's been gushing about how great Peterson has been for him as a self-help guru. After discussing with him it turns out he has never even heard the term alt-right and has no interest in or knowledge of the ideology/politics behind Peterson's material.
Trying to get him to look deeper but can't find any critiques of Peterson that are both concise and not full of vitriol. Anyone know of anything (preferably in video format) that might be helpful?
― tsrobodo, Thursday, 22 March 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
why not ask him to show you some passages JP has written that he finds particularly meaningful and then read them yourself and discuss them with him?
― Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2018 17:58 (six years ago) link
if you just want a one stop fisking then the current affairs piece is the best thing i've read and really exposes the void at the heart of JP's intellectual project. but nothing beats discussing the actual texts that your friend is responding to.
― Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:01 (six years ago) link
it looks like the self-helpy parts are kinda like a dime store Marcus Aurelius minus the gratitude, empathy, and humility
― Dan I., Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:02 (six years ago) link
Just point to the fact that this man got famous for shouting down a group of trans folks.
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:05 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I'd show him what Peterson actually says on ideological issues first and see what he thinks of it.
There's this, from fall 2016, which is when I think he first started becoming prominent in Canada.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiijS_9hPkM
― jmm, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:11 (six years ago) link
fwiw i think that's a bad approach. his friend isn't going to abandon someone he's getting perceived value out of bc he isn't politically correct. he'll either explain away the improper political position, or he'll say that "well i still like him despite this" or he'll agree with it (which is what ppl do when they are challenged with an inconsistency)! you need to dig into precisely what he is getting out of JP and help him see that JP is entirely full of shit and he's either accepting platitudes as great meaning, or he's reading content into vague assertions, or maybe you'll admit that in some particular writings JP has something to say, but those options will engage your friend in a deeper way than sending him links of how bad JP is.
― Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:14 (six years ago) link
If it's someone you care about, I think Mordy's approach is best. I think an adult--particularly a male adult--even just taking enough of an interest to discuss big ideas and most importantly *listen* in a non-prescriptive context to a teenager in their life describe what he's thinking and feeling would make a huge difference. They feel *seen* by JP (though it is a con).
― ryan, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
I think Mordy's approach is a good second step, but it seems like tsrobodo's friend doesn't even have a complete picture yet. Lots of recent followers of Peterson have probably never heard anything about the Bill C-16 controversy. If the response is "I still like him despite this," then that at least serves to complicate the picture.
― jmm, Thursday, 22 March 2018 18:50 (six years ago) link
The last couple of posts are very interesting. I'm getting more curious about JP recently, because a colleague of mine who is a really kind and thoughtful person mentioned him in a positive light recently in conversation. I asked him if he was aware of JP's alt-right connections, and he just kind of smirked, shrugged, and rolled his eyes giving me the impression that he was and possibly didn't believe it. This guy is older, definitely seems to have mostly liberal politics, yet is also single (and has been for a long time), has definitely mentioned some MRA stuff in the past, and seems to view life in absolutes (not just politically, but his whole approach to dealing with job-related issues as well). He's a huge Jung personality type guy - has more or less written an unpublished book about it - and generally prefers solitude. I've wondered before if he might be somewhere on the autism spectrum. I guess I mention this as a way to profile someone who might be more susceptible to someone like JP. He also likes J*e R*gan's podcast and I think became aware of JP from that, so I've been sort of procrastinating watching that to try to get a better idea of what might be appealing to someone like my colleague about JP.
― beard papa, Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:19 (six years ago) link
a co-worker brought JP up on Slack in a public channel a couple months back and had no idea about the transphobic shit. I went off on him a bit. (He left the company a little later. I'm assuming that was unrelated.)
― Simon H., Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:25 (six years ago) link
just show him this meme
https://i.imgur.com/RtYEoiL.jpg
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:26 (six years ago) link
― toblerone rasa (how's life), Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:26 (six years ago) link
my posts are free y'all
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:40 (six years ago) link
just show him this memehttps://i.imgur.com/RtYEoiL.jpg― kurt schwitterz
― kurt schwitterz
i laughed
― beard papa, Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:45 (six years ago) link
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 22 March 2018 19:45 (six years ago) link
pretty good
https://twitter.com/JPetersonReview
― Simon H., Thursday, 22 March 2018 20:09 (six years ago) link
― Mordy, Thursday, March 22, 2018 5:58 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This would be ideal if there were any passages he could point to to begin with.
I'm pretty certain he exclusively watches youtube clips and listens to podcasts, which is why I had hoped one of those summarise stuff youtube people (vox, nerdwriter etc.) had done like a primer or something I could use as a starting point. Surprised how hard it is to find stuff like that.
Really though the idea of having to personally listen to hours of Jordan Peterson just to be able to make a case to my friend gives me hives. I know its potentially counterproductive to look for shortcuts with things like this but life's too short
Doesn't help that he himself is hazy on the appeal. Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses".
― tsrobodo, Thursday, 22 March 2018 21:15 (six years ago) link
i hate watching youtube lectures really from anyone and from JP in particular i imagine it's a nightmare but maybe you could say to him "hey i really want to understand the appeal is there a particular 5 minute segment somewhere that you think is just the best thing you've heard from him so i can get an idea of what you like?"
― Mordy, Thursday, 22 March 2018 21:35 (six years ago) link
I mean the latest Chapo is a pretty sober conversation pointing out JP's snake oil bullshit, even though the ep starts with a bad Elon Musk improv bit - but why is does a Joe Rogan fan need a non-jokey, intellectual discussion of JP?
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 22 March 2018 21:56 (six years ago) link
Nathan Robinson was on Majority Report on Monday to go over his Peterson piece and is really good:
http://majorityfm.libsyn.com/1798-jordan-peterson-the-intellectual-we-deserve-w-nathan-j-robinson
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 22 March 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
tell em grown ass men shouldn't need a YouTube Daddy.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 22 March 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link
oh man im going to steal that
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 22 March 2018 22:22 (six years ago) link
You guys joke but his rules are being widely applied in crucial situations.
https://instagram.com/p/Benm0eZFxTl/
― omar little, Thursday, 22 March 2018 22:26 (six years ago) link
thanks for the pod xps some pretty useful segments I can clip. and thanks Mordy will give it a go
Trying really hard not to be condescending here cause that seems like the easiest way to make sure he has no time for anything I say.
Don't really know the average profile of the young guys consuming this stuff but here I'm talking about someone who sent to London as a 9 year old, first gen immigrant with no fixed parental figure of any kind. A guy who escaped the juvenile offender trap, got a degree, started a career but fought uphill all the way.
Or in other words someone who could reasonably argue a youtube daddy is better than none.
If he feels the absence of kind of mentor figure in his life who am I to tell him otherwise?
― tsrobodo, Thursday, 22 March 2018 23:10 (six years ago) link
It feels not good the way this fucker’s name is just everywhere now
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 22 March 2018 23:19 (six years ago) link
That he might as well be watching a cartoon or a televangelist
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 22 March 2018 23:20 (six years ago) link
Milo’s name was all over the place, what, a year ago?
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 22 March 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
Did you miss the part where I was trying not to condescend?
― tsrobodo, Thursday, 22 March 2018 23:23 (six years ago) link
Hang fire that instagram pic a few posts up is 2 months old and i've no idea who that 'author' is but he's only got 940 followers!
― piscesx, Friday, 23 March 2018 00:02 (six years ago) link
Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses"
these are the words of a person for whom things must be made more difficult
― j., Friday, 23 March 2018 01:00 (six years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Friday, 23 March 2018 01:05 (six years ago) link
Doug Lain at Zero Books has put out several vids responding to and debunking JP
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFad02vA5AOE1H54uQgJbJxBDonm-Gmpw
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 23 March 2018 02:30 (six years ago) link
ugh
i have scanned through MAPS OF MEANING and i am both chagrined and gratified to report that max is right
irritatingly, it seems ideally suited to bolstering the credibility of a charlatan
― j., Friday, 23 March 2018 02:31 (six years ago) link
Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses"these are the words of a person for whom things must be made more difficult
Then I guess the question is how do you get somebody to actually want that? Cause I don't think you get anywhere unless they do.
I guess I did, and then thought about it, and I think the ref is going to call this wrestling match a draw at this point. That (points at screen) is not a good mentor. Somebody he knows is just as wise and cares a lot more about him. JP clearly only cares himself.
Because bolded aside (cause how would this even be an issue if that were true? and even if it were what's to say that person is free to be talking into his ear during his morning commute?) I don't struggle to see that. But the fact that its obvious to you and me has no bearing on why he see's things differently.
― tsrobodo, Friday, 23 March 2018 02:31 (six years ago) link
lol i dunno, ask kierkegaard, or socrates
― j., Friday, 23 March 2018 02:34 (six years ago) link
JP's individual focus let's him offer a lot of inspirational Take Charge advice but he just doesn't seem to understand any wider structural pressures. if I were trying to get someone to rethink I'd try to find a case of someone who they were sympathetic to who suffered bc of systemic unfairness and point out how unsympathetic JP would be and try to chip away at the Tough Dad Telling It Like It Is to reveal the ignorance underneath. or just be lazy and do extremely enthusiastic and bad JP-like takes on everything (kermit voice optional) until they get fed up
― ogmor, Friday, 23 March 2018 08:55 (six years ago) link
he's such a silly figure you can have a lot of gentle fun with his views without acting like a blowhard
― ogmor, Friday, 23 March 2018 08:57 (six years ago) link
this is the banner from the JP reddit
https://i.imgur.com/2VkqooM.jpg
I think ppl should be able to be more convincingly straight and less bullshitty than this
― ogmor, Friday, 23 March 2018 09:10 (six years ago) link
It’s missing some key elements of Nintendo and Disney IP
― El Tomboto, Friday, 23 March 2018 10:36 (six years ago) link
this is the banner from the JP redditPoll
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Friday, 23 March 2018 12:46 (six years ago) link
gotta be honest i keep think y'all are talking about Jurassic Park itt
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 12:54 (six years ago) link
other JP less culturally important than that
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 12:59 (six years ago) link
I dunno if pointing out Peterson's shallowness as a philosopher is going to get fans on your side any more than pointing out his reprehensible politics because what ppl are using Peterson for is self-help, and "accepting platitudes as great meaning" and "reading content into vague assertions" is what most of that stuff boils down to even when it's not weighed down w/ dodgy ideology. People enjoy thinking that he's a deep philosopher for the cred but I doubt many are reading him as an alternative to Derrida (or whoever).
Otoh while I certainly have a knee-jerk dislike of self-help it can and has been helpful to ppl in my life, so pointing ppl to others who provide those services would maybe work - can't help at all re: who that could be tho.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:03 (six years ago) link
Therapists
― El Tomboto, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:05 (six years ago) link
I don't think ppl who opt for Peterson because they view him as more manly and credible than other self-help gurus are likely to be open to therapy, at least not unless you put in a *lot* of work to acclimatize them first.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:08 (six years ago) link
lol was just gonna suggest "real men"
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:09 (six years ago) link
just realised there might be a gap in the market here, could charge people £60 an hour to shout "PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER" at them in a quiet room
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:10 (six years ago) link
yeah this would be like trying to convince neil degrasse tyson fans that his scientific work has been dogged by accusations of improperly isolated samples and potentially misleading statistical regression or something. it's not what they're there for.
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:17 (six years ago) link
really what this comes down to is that youtube is a fucking curse and it should be blasted from existence immediately
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:24 (six years ago) link
These last few takedowns - and the meltdown - seems to have shifted the discourse around JP quite a lot, though. Perhaps not among his fans, but I'll assume most commentators will think twice before they praise him again. I don't think many of those people had read him either.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:30 (six years ago) link
yeah I thought it was overkill at first but I think it's actually been somewhat helpful
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 13:31 (six years ago) link
Which parts did you think were overkill?
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:32 (six years ago) link
oh just the sheer number of long pieces on him - Nathan J Robinson in Current Affairs, Shuja Haider in Viewpoint (and again on Chapo), John Semley in the Globe, Pankaj Mishra in NYRB, probably more I'm forgetting about, all with somewhat different approaches
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 13:35 (six years ago) link
any degree of attention is overkill tbh
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:37 (six years ago) link
I mean, the attention was happening anyway. he has a bestseller and a massive following.
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 13:38 (six years ago) link
Oh, ok. Personally, I would have been fine with just Robinson and Mishra, and Mishra is really trying to get at something else and broader. I'd really love for JP to fuck off at this point, he seems profoundly exposed, but oh well. I'm also thinking of writing an essay on the recent mythological turn in a lot of underground cinema, and I should probably read JP for that :(
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
all those pieces appearing at once is of course evidence that jp's unassailable logic has leftists shook to their cores and they have been coordinating against him behind the scenes
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:42 (six years ago) link
i figure there must be lots better Jungians and mythology profs than JP to turn to, kind of doubt his academic chops. would faaaaar rather read James Hillman on Jung, for one thing
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:47 (six years ago) link
yeah but they won't tell readers to wipe thoroughly or w/ever
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 13:48 (six years ago) link
all the jung and mythology stuff just seem like props to hold up peterson's ridiculous opinions, i v much doubt he actually has anything novel or interesting to say about either topic
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:49 (six years ago) link
it's like dear old Dick Dawks, once you set yourself up as a Twitter defender of truth it actually undermines any good academic work you might've previously done
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:51 (six years ago) link
at least dawkins had contributed something to his academic field before he succumbed to the brain worms, i dunno if i've ever heard anyone stan for peterson's academic work
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:54 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I'm definitely not reading him in the hopes of getting any insight into mythology, but as an example of Mishras fascist mysticism.
I'm just getting allergic to all this bullshit about 'ancient' ideas. Saw a new documentary called Becoming Animal, based on the thoughts of David Abram, and just sat there the whole time thinking it was pseudo-fascist claptrap. Probably an overreaction, but anyway. It's bullshit.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:55 (six years ago) link
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 23 March 2018 13:56 (six years ago) link
It's also to get dudes who are really into Disney movies onboard.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 13:57 (six years ago) link
If people are getting into Peterson strictly as a self-help guru, and don't even know about his political activism (which seems funny from my perspective but w/e), what exactly is the harm that we are concerned about?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:00 (six years ago) link
that the self-help shit well help to sneak in the more awful ideas, I assume
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:04 (six years ago) link
fwiw I don't think they're entirely separate - not that I've read anything but excerpts but there is a lot of stuff in there about personal responsibility, owing up to your own failures, etc. that dovetails nicely w/ a political pov that rejects any kind of structural critique. Unlikely to turn anyone into a fascist or transphobe, tho.
I guess also if you accept someone as your self-help god you're quite likely to agree w/ his politics once you find out about them
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:05 (six years ago) link
^^^
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:09 (six years ago) link
i'm not actually concerned about harm at all i just like lolling at the last defenders of christendom
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:10 (six years ago) link
there is a lot of stuff in there about personal responsibility, owing up to your own failures, etc. that dovetails nicely w/ a political pov that rejects any kind of structural critique
Btw, I know what you mean, but it seems to me that someone who believes that postmodern neo-Marxists have corrupted academia and media and by extension the minds of people in the West - to the point where JP being turned down for a six-figure government grant can be blamed on a PC conspiracy and not his personal failure - is in fact a strong believer in structural critique.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:13 (six years ago) link
Serious question: why is the left unable to reach out to the types of dudes who fall for JP's drivel?
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:14 (six years ago) link
that's an interesting thought actually, "conspiracy" isn't thought of in the same terms as structural critique by these guys - the system is natural and inevitable but constantly at threat of being systematically corrupted?
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:15 (six years ago) link
Blaming said dudes for it is not a valid answer as it partly vindicates JP's strategy btw.
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:15 (six years ago) link
crypto-racists don't much cotton to the "left" from what i gather when i read the internet
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:16 (six years ago) link
bc structural critiques do not create a lot of room for making individual improvements in your life. the only route to action is activism which is its own wishful thinking (that it will make any difference, and any immediate difference in your life). but individuals do have a lot of input into how their lives turn out. you can get yourself educated, you can work on your grit, you can grow yourself as a person and achieve actual results. but none of those things really resonate with a structural critique of society. knowing that it's capitalism's fault won't help your life one iota. xxp
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:16 (six years ago) link
Because if we do, we call them Berniebros and blame them for giving elections away to Russia or something? 4xp
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:17 (six years ago) link
it's possible that describing complex structural narratives which place the individual within a mesh of competing forces over which they never have full control is less appealing than shouting "PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER" for an hour
that'll be £60, cheers.
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:17 (six years ago) link
basically if you want to improve the conditions of your personal and immediate life the left has very little to say to you
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:18 (six years ago) link
and those that do have something to say might be very very wrong...but i agree that we're almost compelled to behave as if personally improvement is always possible and effective
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
"compelled" not by The Bad Guys but by our cognitive processes whether they're innate or learned
idk personally I found being able to identify structural forces behind the dismal and depressing events and forces in life to be quite liberating but I guess that's not what everyone experiences
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:20 (six years ago) link
having said that, people have often improved the conditions of their personal and immediate lives through collective action and struggle, just not at the macro levels so much
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:21 (six years ago) link
Perhaps the left out to eschew non-compatibilism (absolute determinism) for compatibilism (free will and determinism's uneasy truce).
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:21 (six years ago) link
liberating in what sense? like it lets you off the hook or helps you stop blaming yourself okay, but it doesn't help you figure out how to get a better job, negotiate a better wage, meet an appealing significant other, etc. xxp
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:21 (six years ago) link
I don't really see how right-wing politics helps you do those things, either, Mordy.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:22 (six years ago) link
it's a bit much imo to ask ppl who want to earn a higher income to dedicate themselves to collective action and struggle maybe for many years without any results with the hope that maybe one day material conditions will improve. it may be the only way to actually *fix* things but on a personal individualized atomistic level it seems v unsatisfying to me.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:22 (six years ago) link
i thought we're talking about self-help gurus? xp
take initiative. have confidence. work on your mind. work on your body. smooth out the rough edges of your personality. stop blaming yourself. etc. i mean these are trite but ppl use these kinds of banalities to make material improvements (sometimes). or at least they promise as much. "you are being held down by capitalism" doesn't lend itself obviously to many courses of action, i mean maybe throwing rocks through Starbucks windows but idk if that helps anyone very much.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:24 (six years ago) link
what i'm thinking about Mordy is union-type actions against specific employers, or community activist groups taking on local issues - far easier to achieve an outcome than to imagine overthrowing the machinery of capitalism
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:24 (six years ago) link
Long history of 'the left' being all about personal self-improvement, self-education, as well as strong links to temperance movements and such. Alongside structural critique.
― Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:25 (six years ago) link
you can improve your min wage through a union-type action (tho less and less likely in 2018 that such a thing will succeed) but even that has a cap on what you can do. if you aspire to more - like becoming management yourself, or accumulating capital, aka the American dream, collective action is not sufficient.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
and it's as likely that this kind of local engagement might lead you to other benefits - friendship groups, significant others, education etc - as an atomistic will to self-improvement.
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:26 (six years ago) link
if you aspire to becoming management or accumulating capital i agree, i personally don't have much to say to you or offer you :D
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:27 (six years ago) link
Oh, well, then I'm very confused about what we're discussing. I thought pomenitul was saying that the political left doesn't reach the kinds of guys who are being motivated by Peterson's political activism (which I'm not sure is entirely true). if we're talking about self-help gurus, I don't think they're necessarily left-wing or right-wing. I should probably take personal responsibility and focus on work.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:27 (six years ago) link
if you aspire to more - like becoming management yourself, or accumulating capital, aka the American dream
...then yeah the left was never going to appeal to you!
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:27 (six years ago) link
Haha yeah I guess there's some cultural crosstalk here on what we view as "improving your conditions".
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
Yeah, none of these things are essentially left-wing or right-wing.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
But I don't think yr average confused Peterson acolyte is super angling for that place in the corporate boardroom. xpost
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
yeah, a lot of my leftie friends growing up were consummate fuck-ups who couldn't get their own shit together who just happened to have brilliant political minds.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
i think for most ppl in the world improving your material conditions means increasing your assets, thereby increasing your autonomy and security. it's true that in an idealized leftist world there would be sufficient safety nets that you could do anything and have your material needs met. but in our world you need to make more money, accumulate assets, 'be your own boss,' etc. these things are as i think you guys agree incompatible with left-wing econ. (not inherently - i know wealthy leftists - but at least in a phenomenological sense.)
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:30 (six years ago) link
People know what the academic job market is like? You don't become a tenured postmodern neo-Marxist without being ambitious, driven, self-motivated, hard-working, etc!
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:30 (six years ago) link
not the corporate boardroom but owning their own company? absolutely imo.
somewhere along this line of "what is self-improvement?" or "what is the good life?" is the fault-line i think where the impossibilty of persuading the other side that they are wrong and you are right thru rational discourse is situated and other forms of conflict begin
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:30 (six years ago) link
yeah the "personal responsibility" concept has very different meanings across the political spectrum, for one
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:31 (six years ago) link
"you are being held down by capitalism" doesn't lend itself obviously to many courses of action, i mean maybe throwing rocks through Starbucks windows but idk if that helps anyone very much.
it helps whatever news outlet is reporting on said aimless looting. it also helps the performative activist look cool to his friends. of course the most promoted ways to "fight back" are the least effective, most sensational, most marketable.
aside from that there are many courses of action. re-using products instead of throwing them out after one use. mending clothes instead of buying new ones. holding oneself accountable for consumption habits. all of this makes a difference and all of it can be personal day-to-day actions.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:34 (six years ago) link
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51Afeq40qJL._SY450_.jpg
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:35 (six years ago) link
I dunno, I think the ills that Peterson claims to have solutions for are as much or more spiritual and psychological as material - I mean you yourself included meeting a significant other in a list of objectives our hypothetical person may aspire to, reducing it all to "they want a better job" seems reductive.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:36 (six years ago) link
iow it's true that certain individual characteristics (ambition, hustle, hunger, intelligence, determination) do make an actual difference in one's personal success. and i think it's true that you can work on these attributes in yourself (tho i doubt that most "self-help" can help you do it, even tho what it requires is helping yourself - or being helped by a mentor). i just don't see that the left has an interest in this beyond improving yourself for the sake of making more successful political interventions and making a more egalitarian society. but ppl are mostly selfish and where they aren't selfish it is still in an immediate/direct sense - they want to help ppl they know and like not the whole population of people (generally speaking). and this is also where i think self-help stuff does intersect w/ right-wing politics in that right-wing politics emphasize the importance of the individual in outcomes. such a perspective might not be as ideologically coherent ultimately (and lacks compassion on an individual level) but it offers an actual route to improving your material conditions and i think that's appealing. and once you accept that you can improve your life then what is with all those people who can't or don't? obviously they're lazy, or stupid, or etc. again it doesn't have to be this way you can be ambitious and hungry and work hard and take responsibility and also have compassion for those with material conditions and background and neural dispositions don't allow them to make similar changes.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:37 (six years ago) link
Idk I get the sense a lot of self-help material is designed to make you think you were fine all along.
― valorous wokelord (silby), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:39 (six years ago) link
ultimately you're talking about which is the more appealing narrative rather than arguing for which is objectively the best route to feeling happier or more secure or more fulfilled as a person, is that right?
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:40 (six years ago) link
because if that's true i agree, appeals to our own personal efficacy are more inspiring. i don't think i believe in those narratives's underpinning assumptions so much.
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:42 (six years ago) link
no i'm saying that the only way to improve your quality of life in a capitalist society (where the human body is the commodity) is by improving the condition of the commodity. learn a new skill, improve your physical appearance, smooth out the rough bits of your personality. idk if it's the route to making yourself happy but it's the route towards succeeding in this world we've built. and that the "personal responsibility" narrative is more likely to lead to these improvements whereas the structural arguments might ultimately lead to material improvements but it's not really meant to slot into the cravings of capitalism. nb what i'm not saying is that any of this is a /good/ thing or something we should celebrate. just that it's a rational thing if you're living in the US.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
The symptoms may be spiritual/psychological but the causes are mostly material imo. They know they're not going to get to grow up to be alpha breadwinners.
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:44 (six years ago) link
lol the left is absolutely occupied with ensuring people's metarial needs are met.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
obviously the best way to succeed is to be born into a lot of money but you can't really self-help your way into that. but maybe you can self-help your kids into that condition.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:45 (six years ago) link
i think maybe you're not tracking this discussion
what we're saying is that if you have a lot of assumptions that a socialist would reject, it doesn't leave a lot of room for socialism
― ogmor, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:46 (six years ago) link
Yes, but via collective struggle, not individual self-improvement. It's definitely not as easy a sell. xps yeah we're all in agreement on this I think
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 14:46 (six years ago) link
― pomenitul, 23. marts 2018 15:14 (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Because bigotry is one hell of a drug. Let's not kid ourselves it's any more complicated than that, really.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
I 100% think that this is what's behind most of the disaffected young men that we think of when we have these discussions, I just feel like Peterson fans are a variant on that model for whom it doesn't hold true as much. The obsession with Jung and Disney is telling in this regard.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
That just begs the question, though.
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
fred you really believe that bigotry is itself the impetus and has nothing to do w/ other material conditions? like "antisemitism is the socialism of fools" doesn't resonate with your experience at all? you think the two things are totally unrelated? i get the impression you do but that seems v simplistic to me (and also extremely pessimistic about what any kind of left-wing politics can achieve).
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
Mordy - No I read the last 50 posts and I'm happy with what I've just posted
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
no i'm saying that the only way to improve your quality of life in a capitalist society...
ok i have qualms about "only way" - maybe would replace it with "way over which you have the most personal influence" (assuming some kind of free will etc.) and of course it doesn't guarantee quality of life improvements, even materially, never mind mentally or spiritually. even without explicitly espousing a leftist critique of our societies as they exist today i think a structural analysis would have to allow for the huge influence of uncontrollable forces, from luck and "the economy" to who knows what else?
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
The left is definitely able to reach out to a ton of disaffected youth these days. See a billion think pieces about how identity politics are ruining academia. Or your local Bernie Sanders rally.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
of course it doesn't guarantee quality of life improvements, even materially, never mind mentally or spiritually.
nothing is guaranteed but even the left today concedes that self-help like going to college should be made available to everyone so obv we think that it matters
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:51 (six years ago) link
you can improve your min wage through a union-type action (tho less and less likely in 2018 that such a thing will succeed) but even that has a cap on what you can do. if you aspire to more - like becoming management yourself, or accumulating capital, aka the American dream, collective action is not sufficient.― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Many could take part in collective action, gain confidence through that and gain new skills in organising etc.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:51 (six years ago) link
i don't really believe you read the last 50 posts bc i've addressed that exact argument
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:52 (six years ago) link
Basically what I was alluding to earlier, with more snark.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:53 (six years ago) link
Different things in different posts clash with in your other posts - its a pretty incoherent worldview you have. xp
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:54 (six years ago) link
If we're asking why the left can't reach the type of ppl who're reached by Peterson's self-help stuff saying it's down to bigotry makes little sense because as mentioned in this thread tons of ppl who fall for it aren't aware of Peterson's personal bigotries at all.
It's also pretty insane to think "think pieces about how identity politics are ruining academia" are a young person thing but that's a different discussion.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:54 (six years ago) link
even the left today concedes that self-help like going to college should be made available to everyone so obv we think that it matters
admittedly i find myself frequently at odds with what "the left" broadly speaking thinks is worth using or salvaging from the current infrastructure. that might be privileged daydreaming. in terms of this society now i agree.
i do think there's a useful distinction between structuralist critique and leftist critique
― Cambridge Metallica (Noodle Vague), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:55 (six years ago) link
lol ok thumbs up be well bro
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:55 (six years ago) link
I think the point is that those pieces are written by old people who are complaining about young people who ARE being reached by the left, as a sign that, yes, the left is reaching disaffected youth.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:55 (six years ago) link
Edit for grammar as you like
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 14:56 (six years ago) link
Mordy, Pankaj Mishra has been really good at connecting JPs fascist mysticism to the historical materialist context, and I definitely agree that of course it has to do with the economic crises we've been in for a decade at this point. I just react to the constant search for any and all explanation beyond the bigotry. As if bigotry isn't both a powerful personal force, and in many cases a rational response to the ongoing loss of privilege.
I just think this idea that there must be some idea, some potion, that will turn their hearts to a better way, is wrong. The left can't do that. And I don't consider that pessimistic. Because what we can do, though, is creating coalitions and fight them. But that takes looking the problem in the eye.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:56 (six years ago) link
otoh aren't you often arguing that those think pieces are overstating their cases all the time? both things can't be true. xp
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:56 (six years ago) link
Ah ok, I misunderstood then, sorry Fred. xposts
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:57 (six years ago) link
If the problem is that they fall for the self-help without knowing about the bigotry, then point out the bigotry, and that should do the trick, no?
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:57 (six years ago) link
Mordy, I just don't think identity politics are ruining academia. I definitely think a lot of students are into identity politics, that was the case when I studied at UCSD, and I have no reason to think it would be different now.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:58 (six years ago) link
Btw I wasn't suggesting that the left is incapable of reaching disaffected young men (I was primarily thinking of them and no so much of women in this one instance). I'm more curious about why its discourse is so repulsive to the JP crowd. Granted, some of them are no doubt in positions of privilege and hence self-consistent in their egotism, but others could conceivably have gone the other way were it not for [insert answer here]. The latter is what I'm curious about, not least because their ideological adherence to alt-right snake oil is potentially reversible. What is it about the left that fails to speak to that particular subset? (Trying to further clarify my question here.)
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:59 (six years ago) link
i was speaking more to sund4r who i think has made the case before that these think pieces are overstating their cases and most ppl in the academy are not into idpol.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 14:59 (six years ago) link
I just react to the constant search for any and all explanation beyond the bigotry. As if bigotry isn't both a powerful personal force, and in many cases a rational response to the ongoing loss of privilege.
hatred of the Other is a constant in human history but i think that if we don't acknowledge what motivates different bigotries you end up with a weird ahistorical almost metaphysical picture of the human condition (i get the impression Coates agrees w/ that fwiw so maybe i shouldn't be surprised). i.e. you have more in common w/ orthodox jews who say that the Holocaust happened bc Eisav soneh et Yaakov (Eisav/Rome hates Yaakov/Israel) than with historians who blame the rapid collapse of the German economy during the Weimer Republic. i'm not anti-metaphysical explanations for bigotry but i don't think they do much in terms of dictating strategy. you think that the conclusion is that we shouldn't waste our time convincing bigots but everyone hates the Other a little bit - no one is free of racism (i thought this was also like a foundational idpol belief???) so we don't really have the luxury of rejecting all bigots.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:03 (six years ago) link
fwiw I interact with students a lot and some of them definitely take idpol to ludicrous extremes - not at all convinced it's happening at any institutional level tho
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 15:04 (six years ago) link
theres definitely a subset of people who get off on say believing the exact opposite of everything Lena Dunham says
― frogbs, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:05 (six years ago) link
No one is free of racism isn't to me to idpol is about (its not about any one specific thing to me) - if you are going to be a bigot then you must be rejected. There isn't any place for acting like that in public and it should not be tolerated. xps
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:08 (six years ago) link
no i'm saying that the only way to improve your quality of life in a capitalist society (where the human body is the commodity) is by improving the condition of the commodity. learn a new skill, improve your physical appearance, smooth out the rough bits of your personality
huh? even within your own assumptions here, wouldn't you improve your quality of life by getting that commodity valuated higher? that is, by getting paid more? like by agitating for wage improvements? or demanding other quality-of-life things out of your employer, like health care?
"(tho less and less likely in 2018 that such a thing will succeed) " - er? the fight for 15 comes readily to mind. labor organizing is, if hardly ascendant, certainly active and scrappy and innovative and winning gains in particular workplaces and particular sectors of the economy in ways i don't think it was a decade ago. not to mention active grassroots organizing for things like medicare for all, or even just the huge wave of activity last year to preserve the ACA. these are fights to improve one's quality of life within capitalism. and the thing is that whether they have succeeded yet or not, and as far as self-esteem and sense of control over one's life and so on (the things that self-help gurus presumably step in to provide), i think being involved in these campaigns, having consciousness-raising conversations, realizing it's not just you and you're helping in a a larger fight... this all gives people a sense of meaning, purpose, agency. this is observable i think and not speculative, this is a thing that happens in real life right now.
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:10 (six years ago) link
I literally acknowledged what could motivate bigotry in the two sentences you quoted, Mordy.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:13 (six years ago) link
ok enough argue w/ fred + xyzzz this is not a good use of my time. you blokes seem like good ppl but this isn't v productive. re casino:
this all gives people a sense of meaning, purpose, agency.
$15/hr is a great idea but it also is not going to make anyone wealthy. it'll help patch the gaps in society but ppl aspire to more ime. (we pay our lowest level labor employees $15/hr and i'm very happy that we do it but i can also see the lives they live and they aren't getting wealthy off that rate.) if you want an upper middle or upper class lifestyle you need more than just a higher minimum wage.
ok i have to actually work ttyl
― Mordy, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:15 (six years ago) link
i think being involved in these campaigns, having consciousness-raising conversations, realizing it's not just you and you're helping in a a larger fight... this all gives people a sense of meaning, purpose, agency
Such calls for collective involvement can be quite off-putting for certain personality types (assuming this notion is at all meaningful here).
― pomenitul, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link
That's not incorrect, even on lefty subreddits and stuff I read a lot about people having a hard time making it to meetings, canvassing, etc due to extreme social anxiety
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 15:17 (six years ago) link
ok enough argue w/ fred + xyzzz this is not a good use of my time.
Not arguing I am just shouting at your posts when I'm bored instead, not a problem.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:18 (six years ago) link
$15/hr is a great idea but it also is not going to make anyone wealthy.
It will fulfill their spirits though.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:19 (six years ago) link
Peterson makes his audience feel powerful, whereas if you're a young man, the left critique of racism and sexism isn't necessarily an inspiring moment of self-empowerment. Often it's a chore to hear about, and it takes some rational effort to bracket your own interests and biases. It's super easy to spot the annoying aspects of left discourse and fixate on them instead.
― jmm, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:19 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I was mostly explaining Fred's point there. I do think that David Brooks thinkpieces are less persuasive as evidence of anything than the measurable number of young people who turn out for things like Occupy, Sanders, DSA, which I don't think is driven primarily by neo-Marxist (or w/e) domination of academic faculty.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:23 (six years ago) link
I'm not against those acknowledgements, but they have a tendency to drown out everything else. And I'm sorry, Mordy, but you writing 150 words to explain why I should acknowledge something I've already acknowledged is a pretty good example.
Another: The idea in the basic income thread, that Democrats could run on a federal jobs guarantee everywhere in the US. One quick thought about American history should be enough to realize that that idea is completely absurd, of course it won't be popular in the South without compromises.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 15:24 (six years ago) link
Who would want to feel empowered, sounds awful
― valorous wokelord (silby), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:28 (six years ago) link
a factor in this, I think, is the near-constant stream of bland "self-help"-adjacent glurge that gets pumped into schools via health textbooks, posters, etc. this hypothetical perfect high school kid, who does not exist, who sleeps 8 hours a day and thinks out loud to himself when reading and celebrates tolerance in small ways that can be illustrated via clipart. it's well-intentioned -- who doesn't want people to have integrity or compassion? -- but it is also prescriptive and free of actual virtuous substance. in other words, it's bullshit, and kids can smell bullshit, particularly when they're immersed in it 40 hours a week. so they go online looking for people to confirm it is bullshit, and along comes this Internet-famous man to tell them so! plus a thousand other horrifying things, and so their slide continues.
and while said glurge is neither conservative nor progressive -- it's bland, offend-no-one centrism -- it's usually positioned against whatever conservative Republican culture exists in the area. sometimes it's explicitly positioned against it -- think of all the evangelicals complaining about "God being taken out of the schools" -- sometimes it's just implicit. thus, by comparison, it becomes "liberal," and thus the thing to rebel against.
there's also the perennial teenage fixation on the idea of the popular vs. unpopular kids -- the constant references to "Chad," etc. -- and those kids *also* get coded as liberal and people to rebel against. despite that often being the opposite of their political views!
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:35 (six years ago) link
(a fun sidebar to this is that this same process also happens for girls, frequently. just with them, it often results in their YouTube idols or whomever grooming them or worse.)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:37 (six years ago) link
booming posts from katherine and doc casino
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Friday, 23 March 2018 15:51 (six years ago) link
Mordy, I don't quite follow where "become wealthy" arrived in the discussion. Lots of or even most people would like to become wealthy, sure, but is promising "wealth" (as opposed to comfort/stability/control/sense of "improvement") the key criterion for a successful appeal (by a guru or those who would displace said guru)? Obvs there are tons of self-help schticks with wealth as a major theme (e.g. " Rich Dad, Poor Dad") but is Peterson even promising "follow my advice and you'll be rich?" If not, why do alternatives to him have to be about becoming wealthy in order to be relevant here?
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:01 (six years ago) link
probably that goes back to the idea that money gets you girls
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:02 (six years ago) link
(there might be elements of new money envious of old money, or middle class envious of them both, but I think it's more simple than that)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:03 (six years ago) link
As bananaman says, the American left is and has long been associated with all sorts of individual self-help movements and practices: psychotherapy, yoga, ostensibly natural foods & lifestyles, new age spirituality, etc. These aren't based in a structural view of social inequality (which motivates collective self-help, e.g. organized labor, feminism, and the civil rights movement), but instead seem to derive from a "progressive" interest in finding new solutions to old problems.
Nevertheless, Mordy has a point. Individual responsibility for individual outcomes is a cornerstone of right-wing philosophy in America. All power, all agency, all possibility to effect change is located within the desiring and autonomous individual. Therefore, no matter what a person's situation in life might be (and no matter what structural critiques might apply to that situation), their individual outcomes remain wholly self-determined. Motivational self-help shares that philosophy, so I can see how the two might support and reinforce one another.
This the perverse allure of capitalism, which tells the struggling individual that they are alone in an uncaring world and solely responsible for their own problems (you are damned), but also that they can change things for the better if they only "apply themselves" to the proper levers (salvation lies within reach). Each end of that equation arguably leads to the other.
― will work for cultural capital (contenderizer), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:08 (six years ago) link
Deeming all of this "capitalism" is a bit reductive. These are the products of social cultures that intersect with religious traditions.
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, 23 March 2018 16:10 (six years ago) link
hey contendo is back, thread finally delivers
― Algerian Goalkeeper (Odysseus), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:10 (six years ago) link
the proud boys are just a group of guys that like to get together to drink beer.
the self help, "get confident stupid!" market has been poisoned by the red pill pua scene for quite some time now which leads directly to pepe memes and "rheeee are you assuming my gender" insults.
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 23 March 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
Deeming all of this "capitalism" is a bit reductive. These are the products of social cultures that intersect with religious traditions.― Moo Vaughn, Friday, March 23, 2018 9:10 AM (six minutes ago)
― Moo Vaughn, Friday, March 23, 2018 9:10 AM (six minutes ago)
― will work for cultural capital (contenderizer), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:20 (six years ago) link
― jmm, Friday, March 23, 2018 3:19 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I think this is a simple summation--I'm not uninterested in the other unpacking going on here but it's good not to lose sight of the basics: people will avoid doing emotional work and avoid feeling at fault and avoid guilt and shame pretty much every time without some powerful motivation to do otherwise. Maybe it would be productive to talk/think about how to cultivate sources for that motivation?
― Conic section rebellion 44 (in orbit), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:24 (six years ago) link
More pod of Nathan J Robinson bagging on JP
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:27 (six years ago) link
oh yeah i listened to that yesterday - robinson's pretty good but matt binder is a pretty terrible interviewer
― playing in his high school band “The Velvet Pickle” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 23 March 2018 16:27 (six years ago) link
People are stubborn. It's a lot easier to point to a professor "well actually"-ing everyone rather than doing actual work to change the way you think about using pronouns.
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 23 March 2018 16:30 (six years ago) link
give every disaffected youth a copy of the new Andrew W.K. album. not only does it kick ass but he's 10x the philosopher that Jordan Peterson is
― frogbs, Friday, 23 March 2018 16:36 (six years ago) link
the only think i REALLY hate about him is that he always ruins jim jarmusch movies but thats jim's fault
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 23 March 2018 16:49 (six years ago) link
ha whoops
who's got the stomach to read this?
http://quillette.com/2018/03/22/jordan-b-peterson-appeals-left/
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:05 (six years ago) link
(I don't, at this time)
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:06 (six years ago) link
that is too long
― j., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:10 (six years ago) link
Tried earlier. Love the 3rd para which starts with "argument is simple" and ends with "It is an ambitious project that no other public intellectual has dared to provide". Loved it so much I stopped it there - his fans won't ever buy it on that level, which is why I can't see more than 15 mins for this guy. xxp
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:11 (six years ago) link
Yeah, here's the whole paragraph:
Peterson’s argument is simple: repeated cultural symbols, in large part, represent aspects of our psychobiological nature, and many of these symbols have been expressed universally across cultures through myths, legends and archetypes. Such symbols may include the snake swallowing its own tail (chaos) and the heroic individual (the Self emerging out of chaos). This Jungian work may be difficult to read, and to validate empirically, but it is not subjective mist. Its basic assumptions derive from neuroscience, evolutionary biology and developmental psychology. Unlike postmodern thought, Peterson’s work is built on synthesising what we know from the behavioural sciences with the vast accumulated record of mythological story-telling and what these stories tell us about human nature. It is an ambitious project that no other public intellectual has dared to provide in an age that is exhausted and cynical of grand narratives.
The problem in a nutshell is that this is bullshit. When literally the second great idea you locate as being 'universal' is 'the heroic individual' the whole thing just reeks of banality.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:15 (six years ago) link
I figured it was gonna be cack but nice to have it confirmed so swiftly
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:22 (six years ago) link
Also, of course the idea of a 'psychobiological nature' that is unchanging throughout time and space is connected to Petersons transphobia.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
the first sentence of the writer's previous piece in the archives is:
There is no more quintessential a model of the failed hero than Elliot Rodger.
All you need to know.
― omar little, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
lmao jesus fuck what
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:30 (six years ago) link
the "failed" part is right at least
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:33 (six years ago) link
When literally the second great idea you locate as being 'universal' is 'the heroic individual' the whole thing just reeks of banality.
― will work for cultural capital (contenderizer), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:34 (six years ago) link
Much more reassuring to nod along with the smart, handsome & successful father figure saying "toughen up, you weasel" while sneering at feminists and transpeople.
Wait, are we still talking about JP?
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:36 (six years ago) link
The whole thing is bullshit. At one point he decries that the left doesn't take credentials seriously and that Jordan Peterson is a trained psychologist and clinician. The next he is explaining that a lecture is actually really about the history of the Soviet Union. The idea that other scholars might take JP for a charlatan exactly because he takes scientific tools into areas where they don't work, and have been repeatedly shown to not work, doesn't seem to worry the writer.
― Frederik B, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:40 (six years ago) link
someone mentioned James Hillman above--that's actually a very good place to send kids who are interested in JP's derivative shtick.
― ryan, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:41 (six years ago) link
when y'all call Peterson 'transphobic' is that only because of his opposition to the canadian pronoun/language bill, or is there more to it than that?
― sleepingbag, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:42 (six years ago) link
frogbs OTM
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:43 (six years ago) link
not acknowledging chosen pronouns is inherently transphobic
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
yeah wait what more do you need sleepingbag?
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
― sleepingbag, Friday, March 23, 2018 10:42 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sorry, that bill doesn't exist
― Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
ok human rights bill that he hysterically/opportunistically chose to interpret as "maybe someday i'll be forced to use trans ppl's pronouns because political correctness has GONE MAD"
― lol dis stance dunk (Doctor Casino), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
relatedly re: JP and identity, if this got linked earlier I didn't spot it
Jordan Peterson has claimed on several occasions to be a member of the Kwakwaka’wakw First Nation in BC. That appears not to be true. https://t.co/sW6BMAjJ1D— ishmael n. daro (@iD4RO) March 22, 2018
― Simon H., Friday, 23 March 2018 17:49 (six years ago) link
It's a whole other question whether that bill even does what Peterson thinks it does. In any case, Peterson is weaselly about whether he refuses to use preferred pronouns only because it's 'compulsory' or because he doesn't believe they map onto reality.
― jmm, Friday, 23 March 2018 17:52 (six years ago) link
xp. quite hilarious that he self-identifies as indigenous when he isn't and gets upset if he gets called on it.
― Louis Jägermeister (jim in vancouver), Friday, 23 March 2018 17:52 (six years ago) link
pizzagate guy's sci-fi novel sounds hilarious, via @willsommer's kick-ass newsletter pic.twitter.com/m9ObO8dKLW— Tom Kludt (@TomKludt) March 23, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 March 2018 22:49 (six years ago) link
― pomenitul, Friday, March 23, 2018 10:14 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Well, they're p much all white men, and the left/liberals haven't been too keen on them lately.
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 01:21 (six years ago) link
#KillAllWhiteMen, white male (x), patriarchy, white male privilege, blah blah blah. it's obvious why a lot of white men who weren't actively racist/transphobic would cotton to JP. there's a huge number of social/cultural changes happening very quickly and the dialogue on the left is consistently very anti-white male. if you're not smart enough to separate you as an individual white man from the structural advantages of the white male patriarchy you are a part of and at some level implicitly endorse and encourage then JP is a godsend. you can feel good about yourself again without any of that extreme alt-right stuff.
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 01:25 (six years ago) link
it blows my mind when white men take stuff like this so personally, how fucking dumb can you be
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 01:26 (six years ago) link
"why isn't there a white panther" it's basically just that sublimated
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 01:27 (six years ago) link
The problem is partly in the limitations of that sort of privilege discourse. Most people will never want to live on their knees. Becoming aware of privilege is necessary but it's not sufficient to be an ethos. People want some sort of heroic narrative to define their lives. Liberal culture is a bit schizophrenic on this when it comes to gender right now, where on one hand any association of positive traits with maleness or manliness is dismissed as "gender essentialism" and implicitly negating women, yet there is all kinds of deliberate association of women and femininity with positive traits (girl power, strong women, etc.), including traditionally "male" traits, which is an understandable impulse but the resulting message is "women = good, men = ?". I mean basically you have pressure from one side to be hypermasculine, and the other side just says you need to engage in a lot of reflection and self-flagellation but doesn't offer much of a positive vision.
Chapo pointed out that a lot of JP's success just comes from identifying discontent and offering a purported solution. And some of that "solution," when you strip away the toxic politics and pseudo-jungian bullshit, is just basic self-help, self-respect, etc. We've done a really good job of improving the way we teach women self-respect, but there's just kind of a hole left in terms of how men should be taught it.
You can continue to browbeat anyone who feels the way I described but they will continue to turn to JP rather than the left most of the time.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 26 March 2018 02:33 (six years ago) link
it also doesn't help that if you're a 14-year-old boy on the Internet 18 hours a day including during school, you probably don't interact with any actual progressives, so whatever bullshit gets screenshotted on 4chan seems as much like a representative sample as anything
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 26 March 2018 03:23 (six years ago) link
yeah for sure
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 26 March 2018 03:49 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 04:27 (six years ago) link
both of u
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 04:28 (six years ago) link
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Sunday, March 25, 2018 10:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
this is why i always talk to my students who make "i identify as a toaster" kinds of jokes about gender/sex or think feminists are annoying or have gone too far (ive heard this from cis boys AND girls). and generally they get the concept once we've talked for like 5 minutes because there isnt enough real talk about it trickling into their timelines but there is a "ben sharpir0 owns a lib college student on transgenderism" video coming up often.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 26 March 2018 04:43 (six years ago) link
like we scoff at JP (and shapir0, who i think is as close as the american counterpart as we have now, the educated "smart" conservative) because theyre charlatans, but the high schoolers i teach dont have enough background knowledge on what theyre talking about to know that. they just seem no-nonsense and confirm some of their biases so they dont really have to engage with this counterintuitive challenge from the left because this smart guy just laid out why theyre dumb.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 26 March 2018 04:46 (six years ago) link
yea Shapiro is already a marginalized clown tho, JP is burning brighter faster
― flappy bird, Monday, 26 March 2018 05:00 (six years ago) link
he def doesnt have the crossover appeal into mainstream audiences, thats for sure
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 26 March 2018 10:53 (six years ago) link
m bison your script for talking to the young people about this would probably be handy for most of the general population tbf
― El Tomboto, Monday, 26 March 2018 14:00 (six years ago) link
In the experience of this college professor, Jordan Peterson has had a discernibly negative influence on intellectual curiosity and open mindedness in the classroom https://t.co/K3GVbY4gCx pic.twitter.com/FlvBT6EDiD— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) March 26, 2018
― Simon H., Monday, 26 March 2018 17:10 (six years ago) link
'neurological addiction to anger and belief vindication'
i like that
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Monday, 26 March 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link
Yeah, that's otm. And to be fair, it's not exclusively the province of the alt-right.
― pomenitul, Monday, 26 March 2018 21:17 (six years ago) link
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Monday, 26 March 2018 22:22 (six years ago) link
Anybody hear this one that On the Media did earlier this month trying to point out how (white, mainly) reporters continually fail to cover these assholes properly?
http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/on-the-media-2018-03-02/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 26 March 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
Yup, a classic "no shit" NPR moment there
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 26 March 2018 23:20 (six years ago) link
"neurological" and "addiction" are getting at something imo. i know this is #trenchantsocialcommentary but i feel like in general everyone's dopamine cycle is fucked up from the internet and video games and twitter and facebook and politics and primo weed and craft booze and nicotine inhalers and fast food. i know mine is.
― had (crüt), Monday, 26 March 2018 23:41 (six years ago) link
A good followup On the Media ep:
http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/on-the-media-2018-03-07/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 26 March 2018 23:56 (six years ago) link
Haven't listened yet, but one of the tics I hate most when media cover the alt-right is that their idea of "confronting" them is entirely based on the assumption that everyone thinks racism is wrong, so they just say stuff to the effect of "But don't you realize that's racist?" They tend to be nice liberals who have received the right views but have no theoretical framework so they can't really get beyond "what you said is wrong and outside of the scope of what I normally deal with"
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:22 (six years ago) link
And it's like, they know they are racist. They are deliberately making a case for racism. They won't admit it directly, but they're not even that coy about it. So you have to come up with something a little more hard-edged than that.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:24 (six years ago) link
I do think there needs to be more education not just on racism being a bad thing but the reasons that it is wrong and the problems it creates. Also an acceptance that everyone is racist to some extent and we all need to face up to it, not just "the racists" But seems like this is part of a wider problem, of course.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:38 (six years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Monday, March 26, 2018 9:00 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
actually had a good convo at the end of the day with a kid who made some "there are only two genders" crack. i don't know that i hae a script per se, i think it depends on the kid. and i dont know how helpful that any script i could come up with would be for the general population bc i have a preexisting positive relationship with my students and they see me as an authority on intellectual matters bc im smart af and use hella big words. but i usually start by asking about how they understand gender and sex. kid today explained it was the presence or absence of a penis. i pressed if there was anything else we might consider as part of a person's biology and he was stumped at the moment, so i offered chromosomes. so we went over xx and xy, so i asked well, what happens when someone is xxy? what happens when someone has male parts outside but a uterus inside? what about when they have male and female eternal sex organs? so i taught him the word intersex to describe people who fall outside the biological sex binary. and then his partner commented that that might explain why people might be attracted to ppl of the same sex. and i added that that's not always the case! that what your body looks like or has inside doesn't determine your sexuality or your gender. i explained gender as who you got bed as and sexuality as who you want to go to bed with. i think i mentioned how gender is not thought of the same way across the world, brought up 2 spirits and how native american languages have multiple signifiers for gender outside of man and woman. by the end of it, he seemed to get it and seemed kinda shocked tbh.
i think the thing to take away from it is to be patient, ask questions, correct gently, and be someone that they trust. most of my kids saying this stuff are picking it up from like gamer shit and memes so they really have not heard an educated presentation on the alternatives in most cases.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:51 (six years ago) link
I do think there needs to be more education not just on racism being a bad thing but the reasons that it is wrong and the problems it creates. Also an acceptance that everyone is racist to some extent and we all need to face up to it, not just "the racists"
But seems like this is part of a wider problem, of course.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, March 26, 2018 7:38 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I mean the whole point of the alt-right is to normalize racism among people who have been taught that it's taboo. So even MORE messaging that "racism is bad" is not going to be sufficient unless you can provide some kind of framework for why it's bad. The alt-right gets part of its fuel from the "thrill" people get out of breaking a taboo.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:56 (six years ago) link
m bison from the sound of it you are putting in the good work that pays dividends and I really appreciate that, good on you
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 00:59 (six years ago) link
thanks! i kinda feel like as the lgbt student club sponsor i have to be extra vigilant about it or else i'd be pretty worthless.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:10 (six years ago) link
many thanks to you bise for reals
― Clay, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:18 (six years ago) link
They tend to be nice liberals who have received the right views but have no theoretical framework so they can't really get beyond "what you said is wrong and outside of the scope of what I normally deal with"
They get into this, but never actually mention the word “liberal”
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:27 (six years ago) link
"neurological" and "addiction" are getting at something imo. i know this is #trenchantsocialcommentary but i feel like in general everyone's dopamine cycle is fucked up from the internet and video games and twitter and facebook and politics and primo weed and craft booze and nicotine inhalers and fast food. i know mine is.― had (crüt), Monday, March 26, 2018 7:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― had (crüt), Monday, March 26, 2018 7:41 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
OTM
Good advice in general
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:44 (six years ago) link
m bison that sounds an ideal approach. i recently had a v rough seminar discussion myself with a bunch of young men who evidently got all of their opinions on gender from daily mail headlines and reddit memes, and one of the ways of getting through to them (maybe, a bit) was just pointing out to them that whatever yr position is, there are serious issues here that deserve attention and respect and generally a whole lot more nuance than the "you can't say anything about gender without being called sexist", "if you don't know 68 different genders you'll get yelled at" kind of positions they were trying to start the discussion with.
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 01:59 (six years ago) link
i shd say that its usually a productive conversation tho i did have one kid last year who was pretty deep in the alt right woods who was reading breitbart and was into g4v1n mac1nn3s and i think wore some Islamophobic sign on his back one time iirc? kinda scared to see what kind of adult he's turned out to be. again, common thread with him was gaming. it's really the ground zero for a lot of this shit.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 02:10 (six years ago) link
Is it that gaming is ground zero or that finding relatively little social satisfaction or success outside of gaming is ground zero? From what I understand all the kids are gaming now all the time.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 03:14 (six years ago) link
Oh look some hairs let me split them
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 03:16 (six years ago) link
true, gaming too broad a target here. sweeps in the gentle nerds who i play super smash bros with on thursdays after school who are dope.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 04:20 (six years ago) link
maybe its first person shooter fanatics.
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Monday, March 26, 2018 8:59 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
man that sounds rough, its definitely easier in a one on one or two situation than one on a bunch.
also they sound like they are in a hurry to paint themselves as victims of the mob.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 04:29 (six years ago) link
if schools have abstinence-only education, that also definitely doesn't help, because if your sex ed program consists of "don't do it" then it definitely isn't going to encompass "what your body looks like or has inside doesn't determine your sexuality or your gender."
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 07:42 (six years ago) link
From what I understand all the kids are gaming now all the time.
I think that's right, and that also includes tumblr social justice kids - though of course their tastes in games are gonna be different from alt-right kid's.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 08:19 (six years ago) link
(citation needed)
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 08:22 (six years ago) link
That tumblr kids play video games or that the games they play are different from the ones the alt-right plays?
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 08:25 (six years ago) link
they all just play fortnite
― ogmor, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 08:31 (six years ago) link
^^ the games people play don't map up with their political beliefs that much, kids just play games.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 10:25 (six years ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game)
I don't think this was a runaway hit.
― ken hom ad attack (calzino), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 10:28 (six years ago) link
I mean https://medium.com/mammon-machine-zeal/ultraviolent-flash-games-after-9-11-b416b836f28e
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 10:32 (six years ago) link
Eh, I think there's definitley games that have a stronger following amongst kids who're right on than amongst those worried about white genocide - this doesn't preclude that there aren't a bunch of super-mainstream things the two overlap on.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:27 (six years ago) link
Yeah, but that's the wrong way around, there's definitely games, such as those on katherine's list, but those would be played by about 0.1% of kids, or even of 'Gamers'. I'm definitely not saying there's not a toxic culture in places, but it's not actually coming from the games as cultural objects.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:29 (six years ago) link
it's not coming from the games as cultural objects but there is a significant overlap between games communities/forums/etc and alt-right spaces. just like if you get really into certain fandoms you are probably going to encounter Tumblr/former Livejournal users at some point, the further you become a "fan" of games the more likely you are to come into contact with these people
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:36 (six years ago) link
(plus, with AAA games at least, there are so many people involved in so many often tiny roles that "coming from the games as cultural objects" is a steep ask)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:49 (six years ago) link
yeah the emergence of the gamer identity is the most suspect thing imo, it's inherently defensive and ofc there has been proliferation of anti-SJW type memes and discourse among this crowd, but the overall percentage of gamers involved in these communities is small bc gaming is so fkn huge (>40% of americans, 17% globally, only going to go up (I'm sure you cld make a case for the popularisation of gaming as being one of the drivers of the gamer identity as a reactionary purist subgroup))
― ogmor, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:54 (six years ago) link
with the caveat that I haven't read all that much about it, the discourse around this game seems to stink more than the game itself: http://robertwguthrie.com/whats-racist-about-telling-the-truth-when-historical-accuracy-is-used-to-deny-agency/
― ogmor, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:55 (six years ago) link
Aye, I'm agreeing that it's a steep ask. But not entirely with the previous post - the 'certain fandoms' definitely includes games fandoms too.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 11:59 (six years ago) link
in my experience it's different games. there's some overlap, but the overlap tends to be the games that are so big they're practically monolithic -- something like overwatch or pubg for instance
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 12:03 (six years ago) link
Oh yeah, kingdom come is disgusting. I’ll try to find another good article I read about it.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 12:09 (six years ago) link
semi-related
This map of where fights start on Reddit (via @PulsarPlatform) reminds me, appropriately, of a large angry rash. pic.twitter.com/7azcxqokeI— Tom Ewing (@tomewing) March 27, 2018
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 12:12 (six years ago) link
(oh duh it was on the casual racism / sexism thread on ILG)
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 12:14 (six years ago) link
i wanted to finally see what all the fuss was about so i listened to about 45 minutes of a joe rogan podcast w/ jordan peterson and i was struck by 1) how profoundly stupid and intellectually lazy peterson can be; 2) how ignorant dudes like rogan are about what college and universities are actually like; 3) how there is nothing remotely novel about peterson's ideas, they are the same conservative anti-PC trash that has been spouted for decades
― marcos, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:03 (six years ago) link
with a splash of warmed-over Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance I guess?
― valorous wokelord (silby), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:04 (six years ago) link
i'm assuming that when that map is extended to more dimensions the movies/pornography loop gets closed
― had (crüt), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:07 (six years ago) link
like i've been feeling a little frustrated myself by the twitter environments i'm in and the extremism and mob culture of some identity politics stuff so i thought hey maybe this person has something intelligent to say but nope it is the same fucking garbage and ignorance
i've worked at five different colleges and universities over the past twelve years, and have attended two others at a student. how rogan and peterson were talking about them in terms of angry mobs pounding on faculty doors w/ demands to acknowledge 70 different gender pronouns and shit is so far from any reality i've seen. that reddit post from a philosophy professor mentioned how his colleagues' "research is generally very boring and unobjectionable" and that is so otm, universities really are these pretty calm and boring places with lots of boring administrative shit happening, faculty meetings w/ information from the sponsored research office, grant applications, bla bla bla it is not that salacious or violent. rogan hasn't been involved w/ any institute of higher ed since he attended college but jfc christ peterson as a professor has no excuse
― marcos, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:11 (six years ago) link
btw salacious is the wrong word there i think i meant something like sensational lol
― marcos, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:21 (six years ago) link
m bison's post upthread is just so heartening, thank you
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 16:27 (six years ago) link
what do you teach? (or was that during extracurricular stuff?)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 18:09 (six years ago) link
angry mobs pounding on faculty doors
this did literally happen at the evergreen state college last year, I assume he’s still harping on/extrapolating from that
(not trying to contradict yr larger point, just noting)
― sciatica, Tuesday, 27 March 2018 18:31 (six years ago) link
Re: video games and angry young men shooters, Dylan Roof was reportedly obsessed with Dance Dance Revolution and the dude from Virgina Tech was remarkable for _not_ playing games
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 21:24 (six years ago) link
On a very related note, the review embargo on Far Cry 5, a game seemingly to deal with alt-right militia types is up, and the reviews aren’t pretty.
'Far Cry 5' tried to avoid being a game about politics and far right extremism. Instead, it became a perfect celebration of American nationalist violence. My latest: https://t.co/o572bgT1k0— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) March 27, 2018
It looked at first as though the game would be a referendum on far right extremism. Instead, the writing waffles, politically. @austin_walker has the most clearly articulated article about this over at Waypoint: pic.twitter.com/PTk743GJgs— Jack Smith IV (@JackSmithIV) March 27, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 27 March 2018 22:11 (six years ago) link
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, March 27, 2018 2:09 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i teach government/economics, US history (that's when this most recent convo took place), and academic decathlon/speech and debate.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 00:10 (six years ago) link
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Tuesday, March 27, 2018 12:27 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ah, ok. wonder how possible it would be to have that conversation in, say, a math course. probably not sadly :/
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 02:00 (six years ago) link
i had that conversation when i taught math, too. im not up at the front lecturing all day, so i circulate while they're working on stuff and we chat.
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 02:13 (six years ago) link
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/03/27/alt-right-erupts-after-crying-nazi-christopher-cantwell-admits-hes-a-federal-informant/
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link
work wont let me click thru on that -- salient deets?
― gbx, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 16:32 (six years ago) link
Cantwell claims he's helping the Feds to hunt down the *real* criminals (ie, the left), Weev has strenously said otherwise on Gab, and generally horrible people continue to act horribly.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 16:43 (six years ago) link
they're all still enormous assholes xp
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 16:59 (six years ago) link
i.e. another example of literally everything they say being projection, in this case "the left is full of infighting!"
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 17:00 (six years ago) link
katherine otm
― maura, Wednesday, 28 March 2018 17:03 (six years ago) link
I guess I'm not seeing the problem here.
Women: if you usurp men they will rebel and fail and you will have to jail or enslave them.— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) December 17, 2016
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 March 2018 00:57 (five years ago) link
Sounds fine
― valorous wokelord (silby), Thursday, 29 March 2018 00:58 (five years ago) link
That “we’re taking our toys and going home” theme is central to redpill. I just recently learned what the acronym “MGTOW” stands for and it’s both hilarious and sad.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 29 March 2018 01:01 (five years ago) link
Yeah that particular sub movement is p fascinating
― when worlds collide I'll see you again (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 29 March 2018 01:29 (five years ago) link
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive)
makes me think of buckingham/nicks every time i hear it
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 29 March 2018 01:58 (five years ago) link
What does that stand for
― flappy bird, Thursday, 29 March 2018 02:12 (five years ago) link
The acronym
men (can) go their own wayyyyyyyGO THEIR OWN WAYYYYYYyou can call it another lonely guyyy
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Thursday, 29 March 2018 02:14 (five years ago) link
It’s supposed to be some kind of male rebellion against the horror show of modern marriage and divorce but it’s largely just “I’m wounded so I’m not going to play” under the surface.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Thursday, 29 March 2018 02:43 (five years ago) link
Is it like some volcel offshoot or are they men going their own way who would also like women to go that way with them
― valorous wokelord (silby), Thursday, 29 March 2018 02:47 (five years ago) link
Sounds horrible
― flappy bird, Thursday, 29 March 2018 02:54 (five years ago) link
the ironic(?) thing is that MGOTW types are the most tolerable of the alt-right generally, since "going their own way" generally means leaving you the fuck alone
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 29 March 2018 03:09 (five years ago) link
― valorous wokelord (silby)
you motherfucker now i have lenny kravitz stuck in my head
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 29 March 2018 03:13 (five years ago) link
Looks like it hasn’t been updated in a while but I remember laughing at this: https://sadmgtowapartments.tumblr.com/
― joygoat, Thursday, 29 March 2018 03:37 (five years ago) link
basically Peterson is the two ronnies circa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcMd1F1acSo
― papa don't take no meth (stevie), Thursday, 29 March 2018 06:48 (five years ago) link
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/380821-milo-yiannopoulos-charity-for-white-men-closes-with-questions#.Wr0Vuqa51VI.twitter
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 29 March 2018 16:48 (five years ago) link
https://splinternews.com/the-fascist-right-is-bloodied-and-soiled-1824093337/amp?__twitter_impression=true
― Simon H., Friday, 30 March 2018 02:08 (five years ago) link
Looks like Wikileaks has tweeted out a DM by accident. pic.twitter.com/MVsTgqAdVY— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) March 30, 2018
― Frederik B, Saturday, 31 March 2018 14:26 (five years ago) link
jordon peterson
<contorted spongebob.img>
― Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 31 March 2018 14:41 (five years ago) link
I've been not online and not in Toronto for the last few days and it's been awesome to not see or hear about him at all
― Simon H., Saturday, 31 March 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
Was reading someone I know talk about the way the alt-right target depression communities for recruitment and that those communities don't warn about this stuff nearly enough.
It doesn't surprise me but also news to me is that the folk music community has become particularly poisoned. Anyone witnessed this?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 31 March 2018 20:15 (five years ago) link
I haven't noticed, but I'm peripheral at best to the folk scene these days.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 31 March 2018 20:51 (five years ago) link
more like volk scene amirite?
― bad left terf nut (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 31 March 2018 20:53 (five years ago) link
lol wait there's alt right folk music? Link please
― flappy bird, Sunday, 1 April 2018 00:38 (five years ago) link
It's probably just lots of these people hanging around the folk scene, not a separate thing.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 1 April 2018 00:46 (five years ago) link
so like different from the Death In June neofolk stuff that was alt right before there was an alt right?
― had (crüt), Sunday, 1 April 2018 00:49 (five years ago) link
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/irony- new-white-supremacy/
Twitter and Facebook have unquestionably failed the left. The conviction that these companies are supposed to operate in the service of some ultimate humanitarian good reminds me now of the way certain techies fetishize Elon Musk’s plan to save humanity by moving to Mars. There, rather than succumbing to the planet’s toxic atmosphere and lack of natural resources, humans will somehow build a lasting, utopian society where we don’t repeat any of the same mistakes we’ve made here. It also calls to mind the reverence of futurist Ray Kurzweil, and his theory of an eventual human merger with machines that may make us all knowing and immortal. This future, which he calls the Singularity, is (much like the Rapture) always approaching but never quite here.I wonder if rather than looking to technology to fix us at some point in the future, it might not make sense to look at where it has brought us. I also wonder whether it might not be the work unlikely to make any kind of splash online — odd non-denominational chapels featuring priceless works of art, huge, un-Instagrammable protest murals, new classical music performances, and other work viewers have to engage with sincerely and in real life to experience — that we need most right now.In that same vein, what might it mean to gaze clear-eyed at the far-right agenda, admit that we are both frightened by it and ashamed of the role liberal complacency played in its rise, and start by building our weapons from there? Rather than denying what can’t be denied and minimizing what can’t be minimized, thus forfeiting the fight altogether? I’m not suggesting the left abandon cynicism, only that we stop affording it a weight it can’t carry under the current administration. Leaving kneejerk irony and the rewards it offers behind might be difficult at first. But it might also be worth it, if it means we get to take back the actual world, and build in it something new.
I wonder if rather than looking to technology to fix us at some point in the future, it might not make sense to look at where it has brought us. I also wonder whether it might not be the work unlikely to make any kind of splash online — odd non-denominational chapels featuring priceless works of art, huge, un-Instagrammable protest murals, new classical music performances, and other work viewers have to engage with sincerely and in real life to experience — that we need most right now.
In that same vein, what might it mean to gaze clear-eyed at the far-right agenda, admit that we are both frightened by it and ashamed of the role liberal complacency played in its rise, and start by building our weapons from there? Rather than denying what can’t be denied and minimizing what can’t be minimized, thus forfeiting the fight altogether? I’m not suggesting the left abandon cynicism, only that we stop affording it a weight it can’t carry under the current administration. Leaving kneejerk irony and the rewards it offers behind might be difficult at first. But it might also be worth it, if it means we get to take back the actual world, and build in it something new.
― j., Sunday, 1 April 2018 01:26 (five years ago) link
trying to fix that link: https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/irony-%e2%80%a8new-white-supremacy/
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 1 April 2018 03:19 (five years ago) link
Aw:
If a group’s only MO is destruction, it stands to reason that eventually it will destroy itself. What The New York Times calls the “alt-right” isn’t a monolith, but a swarm of tribes with different agendas, some of which radically oppose one another. Ultimately, it’s not difficult to imagine them all simply tearing each other apart as the entire movement implodes. Until that point, I wonder if we shouldn’t broaden our perspective. We should not only work on undermining the white supremacist agenda, but also the cultural environment that helped it thrive and grow in the first place. Irony was an integral part of that cultural environment. I wonder then if sincerity is the last radical act left. Perhaps it is time to say what we mean.
I like that essay. It's a bit rambling, and a bit self-serving in it's idea that Rothko Chapel and New Music will save us all, but it's nice.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:10 (five years ago) link
finally somebody calls for the end of irony
― bad left terf nut (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
The new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new new sincerity
― scotti pruitti (wins), Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:18 (five years ago) link
the alt-right: alanis to blame?
― someone’s burgling my miscellanea (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:43 (five years ago) link
What folk music community? And where?
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:52 (five years ago) link
Rod, Jane and Freddy seem quite sinister now when I think about it.
― calzino, Sunday, 1 April 2018 11:54 (five years ago) link
Rod, Jane and Friedrich morelike.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:09 (five years ago) link
stunned to hear that the famously diverse and forward-looking folk music scene has been infiltrated by the alt-right
― someone’s burgling my miscellanea (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:39 (five years ago) link
there will be Morris Dancers dancing on yr grave for such a vile slur!
― calzino, Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:44 (five years ago) link
Neofolk obvs has hard-right adherents but idk if that crosses over to mainstream folk music much.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Sunday, 1 April 2018 12:56 (five years ago) link
Tends to be full of lefties in my experience.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:18 (five years ago) link
I don't know much about this folk thing, I should ask the person who was talking about it. Yes, this has always been going around the neo-folk scene but I imagine there's always been some of it in any genre that shows the past so lovingly or in various gothic genres (I love all this stuff. Unfortunately a lot of things I like have this fringe to them but maybe there's an extremist/toxic fringe to most things?). I was loving some neo-classical darkwave recently and realized that a lot of racists would probably love it too, hoping the band themselves aren't like that.
I was reading a book compilation of the Esoterra fanzine a few years ago, there was interviews with a lot of neo-folk, black metal, dark ambient, industrial etc, and the interviewer was regularly asking "are.....you racist?" in different words and the answers weren't always very reassuring.
A lot of people on the alt-right spectrum utterly loathe irony and are totally into sincerity.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:20 (five years ago) link
It certainly doesn't fit with my experience of the trad folk scene.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:26 (five years ago) link
Though that was before Shirley Collins et al started getting written about by the David Keenan/Wire cru.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:30 (five years ago) link
There's nothing the alt-right loves more than a stridently sincere lefty they can troll, really.
Aside from that, irony is less a conscious stance and more sort've the historical dead-end that we've arrived at. A way out of it needs to be found but it can't be as simple as a "return to sincerity", that just ends up as cosplay imo.
― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:31 (five years ago) link
Tom, I'm guessing the "Folk" talk in here is probably more amongst the lines of Black Metal and/or semi-Indie types picking the genre up rather than anything traditional. There's a lot of obsession with Celtic roots amongst US white nationalists iirc, might tie into it.
― Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 1 April 2018 13:33 (five years ago) link
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-white-nationalist-troll-ricky-vaughn_us_5ac53167e4b09ef3b2432627?gr
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 5 April 2018 21:40 (five years ago) link
Opening line of this review, which continues in entertaining fashion:
This is just the fucking worst.
https://johannesburgreviewofbooks.com/2018/04/04/richard-poplak-sets-jordan-b-petersons-house-in-order-a-scorching-review-of-12-rules-for-life/
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 6 April 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
man dunking on peterson really never gets old huh
― star wars ep viii: the bay of porgs (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 6 April 2018 11:18 (five years ago) link
a proper and necessary dunking IMO
― Thomas NAGL (Neil S), Friday, 6 April 2018 11:21 (five years ago) link
I've been trying to avoid stuff about JP but I think that article told me everything I need to know, enjoyed reading that.
― obnoxious pun (ultros ultros-ghali), Friday, 6 April 2018 13:32 (five years ago) link
That's a well-written and highly entertaining take-down (definitely my favourite so far) but, as usual, it preaches to the choir. A friend of mine has been slowly sinking into JP-style archetypal clichés (regarding men and women in particular) over the past few years and I'm frankly at a loss as to how to get him to question his beliefs, especially since he is, at base, a highly intelligent and critical individual whose thinking skills are now wholly in the service of confirmation bias. I thought of sending him that link but am afraid that it would merely validate his worldview.
― pomenitul, Friday, 6 April 2018 15:26 (five years ago) link
I'm not sure how much it's worth to try and change someone actively rather than passively, leading by example and not via links.
i have a friend who has turned into a meme cartoonist who's probably a JP fan (or would immediately become one if he was made aware of his existence) and whose nouveau libertarianism certainly has started to quickly lean a bit right (especially w/r/t gun violence and the #metoo movement.) he's had some of his shit shared by alt-right types on social media. it's frustrating to see but i won't try to change his opinions, it's a pointless waste of energy afaict.
― omar little, Friday, 6 April 2018 16:36 (five years ago) link
The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi Nazi who has blown himself up in his kitchenhttps://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/national/warrants-bomb-maker-killed-apartment-explosion-had-white-supremacist-bent/y6Y8rfDEIv5SC9zCbbkloL/
― valorous wokelord (silby), Saturday, 7 April 2018 01:39 (five years ago) link
https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/the-fall-of-milo-yiannopoulos/
― Number None, Saturday, 7 April 2018 13:55 (five years ago) link
Brilliant that Spectator piece, a classic of the 'Give em enough rope' genre. That bit about going back to traditional media at the end.. oh man.
― piscesx, Saturday, 7 April 2018 16:52 (five years ago) link
ugh. The part where he went on those radio shows - I had forgotten Anthony Cumia existed - was especially nauseating.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 7 April 2018 17:21 (five years ago) link
cumia is such a scumbag. and his podcast network hosts gavin mcinn3s’ garbage too. game recognize game i guess
― maura, Sunday, 8 April 2018 12:03 (five years ago) link
This article reads like it was written by an intern - and surprise, it was!
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 8 April 2018 17:25 (five years ago) link
― maura, Monday, 9 April 2018 13:48 (five years ago) link
Anti-Abortion Leader Emerges As White Nationalist
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kristen-hatten-white-nationalist_us_5acd0d5be4b0259339de14f8?xi
― goole, Tuesday, 17 April 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
shocked, shocked etc.
― valorous wokelord (silby), Tuesday, 17 April 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
FRIDAY: @BillMaher welcomes @MichaelAvenatti @JayInslee @alexwagner @FrankBruni + @jordanbpeterson to #RealTime @HBO! pic.twitter.com/oRCkeY9LOq— Real Time (@RealTimers) April 18, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 18 April 2018 23:54 (five years ago) link
Anti-Abortion Leader Emerges As White Nationalisthttps://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kristen-hatten-white-nationalist_us_5acd0d5be4b0259339de14f8?xi9
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kristen-hatten-white-nationalist_us_5acd0d5be4b0259339de14f8?xi9
A Twitter account called 'Byzantium' rails against 'the multiracial hellholes of western Europe and deep state America'. Where to begin...
― pomenitul, Thursday, 19 April 2018 00:06 (five years ago) link
Hatten and her friends bleating "she's not a racist" "she's not a racist".
She's a racist.
― Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV (stevie), Thursday, 19 April 2018 09:52 (five years ago) link
fter I reached out to Hatten last week, she deleted her Facebook and Twitter accounts
this writer should reach out to more white supremacists.
She said she is having a high-risk pregnancy and that the negative attention to her views would cause her more stress
is this the set-up for the it was just a hormonal phase, excuse?
― Ludo, Thursday, 19 April 2018 10:56 (five years ago) link
is she one of those sacred duty to birth more wite children
― Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 19 April 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
assholes
― Google lobster hierarchies (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 19 April 2018 11:34 (five years ago) link
couple of young, highly smart engineering undergrads talking absolute alt-right shit irl & I just had to give up stoicism and counter it & it ended as you expect. ending political arguments by insulting (yr lack of) manhood or appearance is 100% cogent in their worldview.
none of this mattered, but right-wing ideology feels very intuitive, I guess (bro, all this inequality/hierarchy is just natural), while leftism is counter-intuitive—it complicates, questions, makes the world's problems more complex, takes many variables at once, assigns guilt and blame.
sometimes it seems like hating/mocking leftism and adopting the opposite of all leftist stances is their whole fuel, or how they persecute leftists for not being 100% saintly virtuous people. which, in a weird way, means they have internalized our framework in a warped way
idk. trying to understand our right-wing world.
― epigone, Friday, 20 April 2018 11:08 (five years ago) link
This is not confined to either the alt-right or even the right tbh.
― (Henry) Green container bin with face (Tom D.), Friday, 20 April 2018 11:13 (five years ago) link
I think it’s fairly standard where hypocrisy is one of the few things that both sides agree is bad.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 20 April 2018 11:54 (five years ago) link
rightism is not intuitive and leftism is not counter-intuitive. both are learned responses
― imago, Friday, 20 April 2018 12:27 (five years ago) link
i feel the big thing is that right-wing ideology is intrinsically hateful and, especially, vengeful, and these aspects of that ideology do resonate with me. most forms of leftism tend to point out that vengeance isn't really workable. that's true, but lord i surely do want to see my enemies suffer.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 20 April 2018 12:37 (five years ago) link
Right-wingers like to characterise left-wing ideologies as being hateful and vengeful as well though. Hating people who are better off because of their obvious superiority and wanting revenge by stripping those people of their hard-earned assets. Or even just "liberals hate our country".
― Colonel Poo, Friday, 20 April 2018 12:49 (five years ago) link
sure but i'm not talking about how these ideologies describe themselves, i'm talking about how they operate in practice. they can talk about how "hitler was a liberal" all day long but they'll still be wrong.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 20 April 2018 13:05 (five years ago) link
Seems hard to deny that 20th century Communists could be p vengeful.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, 20 April 2018 13:10 (five years ago) link
What's at the root of most conservative right-wing thinking (if you want to take it in good faith) is the idea that suffering, inequality, etc. are inevitable and that attempts to eliminate these will inevitably backfire and suffering, inequality, etc. will be heightened as a result. That isn't in and of itself hateful or vengeful, but the certainty that leftists will lead to a worse world is what makes right-wingers feel it's ok to hate us - the reverse also usually true, leading to what sund4r mentions.
alt-right a different kettle of fish because they're not really conservative in the "intuitive" way epigone describes - they want radical change as much as any part of the left does, except they harken back to a fictional Paradise Lost of well defined gender roles, racial hierarchies, etc.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 20 April 2018 15:46 (five years ago) link
https://www.splcenter.org/20180419/mcinnes-molyneux-and-4chan-investigating-pathways-alt-right
Respondents recount a transformation that takes place almost entirely online. Led either by their own curiosity or an algorithm, the content they consumed became increasingly extreme, fostering their radicalization and guiding them eventually to TRS. Their responses reveal a pipeline between the alt-lite and racist “alt-right,” with many users explaining that alt-lite figures like Gavin McInnes were the first to introduce them to hardcore, veteran white nationalists.The two threads, titled “WHAT BROUGHT YOU INTO THE MOVEMENT?” and “Path here beginning from Gavin,” asked posters to reflect on their own “red pill” narratives and provide tips for converting others. “Here’s the challenge,” a user identified as The Somalisher wrote. “Create a list of succession from the Alt-Light to us. I have friends who like Gavin…But I can’t exactly throw Andrew Anglin at them.”
The two threads, titled “WHAT BROUGHT YOU INTO THE MOVEMENT?” and “Path here beginning from Gavin,” asked posters to reflect on their own “red pill” narratives and provide tips for converting others. “Here’s the challenge,” a user identified as The Somalisher wrote. “Create a list of succession from the Alt-Light to us. I have friends who like Gavin…But I can’t exactly throw Andrew Anglin at them.”
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 20 April 2018 23:45 (five years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r)
i don't know a lot of robespierres or stalins. even antifa, the unhinged radical left, don't ever seem to go beyond misdemeanor property damage, and most of "the left" is tripping all over themselves to denounce them whenever they do. maybe i lack imagination, but i feel like we're a far longer way from Red Terror than we are from armed right-wing insurrection.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 20 April 2018 23:49 (five years ago) link
Yeah, totally. I was thinking of "most forms of leftisms" in a broader historical sense.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, 21 April 2018 17:02 (five years ago) link
lmao @ Milo's pathetic Facebook whining"It’s now impossible for me to safely go out for lunch in most major cities in America" pic.twitter.com/FG6V0wprHp— Eoin Higgins (@EoinHiggins_) April 22, 2018
does someone need a...safe space ???
― frogbs, Monday, 23 April 2018 15:47 (five years ago) link
"my black husband"
― Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV (stevie), Monday, 23 April 2018 22:43 (five years ago) link
some of his best husbands are black
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 April 2018 22:44 (five years ago) link
lmaooo
― maura, Monday, 23 April 2018 23:04 (five years ago) link
A Facebook employee confirmed to me on background that the Alek Minassian Facebook post referencing 4chan and "The Incel Rebellion" is real: pic.twitter.com/gdydMBOE0l— Jane Lytvynenko 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️ (@JaneLytv) April 24, 2018
― maura, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:22 (five years ago) link
that case is being discussed a bit on the terrorist attacks thread. I'm fucking livid that vile incel garbage knows no borders.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:29 (five years ago) link
lol did you think canada was immune, cmon man
― gbx, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:03 (five years ago) link
most of canada is just like outstate minnesota
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:06 (five years ago) link
Montreal Polytechnique today seems like a major precursor to all of this.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:07 (five years ago) link
obv not gbx I'm just angry
― Simon H., Tuesday, 24 April 2018 17:10 (five years ago) link
ahahaha pwned
Proud Boy gets beat by sign. May Day in Seattle. #jimmykimmel #jimmykimmellive #jimmyfallon #thetonightshow #colbert #thelateshow #fullfrontal #trevornoah #thedailyshow #sethmeyers #latenight #theopposition https://t.co/7sPvHOmXfO— Nate Gowdy (@nategowdy) May 2, 2018
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:12 (five years ago) link
is that........real
― imago, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:18 (five years ago) link
it's as real as anything is real is at this point
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:19 (five years ago) link
having seen more than enough IRL chuds in action for one lifetime that certainly scanned as real to me
― Simon H., Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:26 (five years ago) link
'action'
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:35 (five years ago) link
Lol at that video, real or not.
On a different note, I saw the French film 'Workshop' this morning, and it's a very earnest attempt at getting into the head of a boy on the road to turning alt-right. Worth seeing.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 13:58 (five years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/white-supremacist-is-guilty-in-charlottesville-parking-garage-beating-of-black-man/2018/05/01/033396b4-4af9-11e8-8b5a-3b1697adcc2a_story.html
― sleeve, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:13 (five years ago) link
For those who don't remember, here is a picture of that man's attorney, Elmer Woodard:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25348447_2018968401722204_4610189001188206645_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fe9286d564f9000ef5d4d0e2af76b6c8&oe=5B63DCDC
― how's life, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:17 (five years ago) link
Or here:
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/25289475_2018968378388873_5555674363352059649_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=66b4e75b0961973c83685c080e01bff3&oe=5B5B1AE5
He has been representing all these alt-right fools from Charlottesville.
http://www.dailyprogress.com/news/local/three-white-nationalists-found-guilty-of-failing-to-leave-rally/article_a81a72e2-b071-11e7-a3f1-db8bf4503c1b.htmlhttp://www.c-ville.com/watching-backs-cantwells-request-change-venue-special-prosecutor-denied/#.WunI3KQvxhE
― how's life, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:19 (five years ago) link
here's a little-seen image of elmer in court
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTmXBo9X4AEjNYs.jpg
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:19 (five years ago) link
xp thank you, did not know that detail
― sleeve, Wednesday, 2 May 2018 14:22 (five years ago) link
more charges
Ku Klux Klan leader found guilty for firing gun at Charlottesville rally
― sleeve, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 19:23 (five years ago) link
https://patch.com/maryland/bowie/umd-hate-crime-defendant-wants-offensive-images-barred-report?utm_campaign=blasts&utm_content=maryland&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social
― how's life, Wednesday, 9 May 2018 12:03 (five years ago) link
White supremacist who murdered a black man at UMD last year does not want his Facebook ties to white supremacist groups to be admissible in court.
― how's life, Wednesday, 9 May 2018 12:04 (five years ago) link
link?
― goole, Wednesday, 9 May 2018 17:52 (five years ago) link
oh shit sorry! scrolling too fast...
Did someone already post this https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/05/pretty-loud-for-being-so-silenced
― Dan I., Wednesday, 9 May 2018 18:32 (five years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1737430889680788/
― dan selzer, Thursday, 10 May 2018 14:37 (five years ago) link
Their cover photo reminds me of Donald Fagen in this Achewood comic.
https://achewood.myshopify.com/products/comic-steely-dan-06-11-2004
― how's life, Thursday, 10 May 2018 15:14 (five years ago) link
For fun!
WATCH: Policy Advisor For Trump-Tied 'America First' Group Praises Nazis: They Should've Kept 'Going' https://t.co/v3IAkw5GxN (Exclusive by @calebecarma) pic.twitter.com/tPR6whOVXz— Mediaite (@Mediaite) May 10, 2018
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 10 May 2018 16:45 (five years ago) link
latino nazis smdh
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 May 2018 16:52 (five years ago) link
Alex Jones and Milo "stormed" the Google Fiber office in Austin today. Before they got kicked out, the Google employee sent to deal with them said he recognized Jones but said he had no idea who Milo was. https://t.co/44kQOSlOS8 pic.twitter.com/rteC5l4Rth— Will Sommer (@willsommer) May 14, 2018
Also: Milo has entered his bolo phase pic.twitter.com/UodRzNC4qT— Will Sommer (@willsommer) May 14, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 14 May 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
― martin short's interiors (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 May 2018 22:49 (five years ago) link
lmfao at the bolo tie!!
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 04:19 (five years ago) link
dont let milo ruin a bolo
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:17 (five years ago) link
he can't now
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:28 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5c4vrXKtiI
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:32 (five years ago) link
Laurie was right, language is a virus
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 May 2018 05:45 (five years ago) link
David Duke Ordered to Turn Over Charlottesville Messages
― sleeve, Saturday, 19 May 2018 04:18 (five years ago) link
IT IS HAPPENING AGAIN
The Seattle Proud Boy defeated by an anti-fascist sign earlier this month is back for revenge, but fails badly. pic.twitter.com/II8ASMrDAG— Nathan Bernard (@nathanTbernard) May 23, 2018
― i am fast and full of teeth. i willl die in a barn fire (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:16 (five years ago) link
the master race, ladies and gentlemen
― Lou Grant, the Iranian cinema of late '70s TV (stevie), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:23 (five years ago) link
i think at this point this proud boy has forfeited the right to pride of any kind
― i am fast and full of teeth. i willl die in a barn fire (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:27 (five years ago) link
Then of course they do shit like this
I was recently made aware that Gavin McInnes sent this message to his followers, The Proud Boys. Today, a Proud Boy drove to my home, rang my doorbell and threatened me and my family. All because I posted edited videos Gavin didn't like. Got his plate # and filed a police report. pic.twitter.com/dsys9Wl6ry— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) May 22, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:29 (five years ago) link
what a world
― i am fast and full of teeth. i willl die in a barn fire (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:32 (five years ago) link
defend Vic at all costs
― Simon H., Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:33 (five years ago) link
i mean let's recap: the racist founder of a magazine for assholes has carved out a new niche as the leader of a bunch of witless rightwingers whose brotherhood is bound together by maintaining strict control over their precious bodily fluids and who, from time to time, like to physically menace people who disagree with them
― i am fast and full of teeth. i willl die in a barn fire (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:35 (five years ago) link
yes vic is good and pure and must be treasured
― i am fast and full of teeth. i willl die in a barn fire (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 14:36 (five years ago) link
Wow. Scary
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 16:12 (five years ago) link
don't forget their ability to name cereal brands xxp
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 16:14 (five years ago) link
There is no "good guy" defense for guys who consistently say and do bad things. https://medium.com/@lucybrown_85483/the-crucifixion-of-andrew-dodson-1a3c2c8b9f56
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 16:27 (five years ago) link
That medium post is brutal.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 19:56 (five years ago) link
Why would you stand on the side with the neo-nazis on it if you were a decent human being
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 22:10 (five years ago) link
Is fear of death, or at the very least your life being torn apart by strangers, something we should warn our children about when it comes to engaging in politics?
this writer is a fucking idiot
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 22:19 (five years ago) link
Have you ever really looked at a white man, man?
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
won't someone feel sorry for the nonviolent, non-hateful, non-nazi, non-alt-right guy who for reasons unexplained made it his project to go stand with a bunch of nazis and alt-right guys as they preached hatred and carried out violence? clearly the real villains here are the "violent counterprotestors" and anyone trying to hold fascists accountable. you'd never see white supremacists and nazis trying to identify or out the people who showed up to disagree with them, nosiree. where oh where has society gone.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 23 May 2018 22:39 (five years ago) link
I fully support alt-right nazis right to say whatever shit they want. I also fully support them having to deal with the legal and broader social consequences of expressing those views.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 22:59 (five years ago) link
that "fear of death" thing really galls me though, it signifies so much white privilege bullshit, blithely (and possibly not even deliberately) oblivious to the fact that political activism has *always* been a life-threatening endeavor, esp for those traditionally shut out of power.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 23:01 (five years ago) link
I feel like maybe I’m an inhuman monster but that article honestly made me happy to think that maybe other racist (or racist-tolerating) dicks might face enough public shaming that they end up ODing. I just don’t see any downside, other than maybe missing out on some clean energy breakthrough but this was a unique case in that regard.
― joygoat, Wednesday, 23 May 2018 23:51 (five years ago) link
i'm sorry the guy killed himself. i'm disinclined to look at anybody who killed themselves and say "fuck you, you deserve it".
i also dislike suicide being used as a political cudgel to try and shame people you disagree with. i've known a number of people who've killed themselves, and in some cases there are political reasons contributing to that suicide. not anything as dramatic as them participating in a fascist rally. just the way of the world - somebody mentally ill being looked at as less than, as not worth helping. somebody who wasn't cared about, wasn't cared for, and should have been. seeing those suicides, seeing people whose deaths could have, should have been avoidable (well, _delayable_, nobody's death is _avoidable_), that's shaped my political beliefs. but their deaths are always going to be personal to me. lucy's article strikes me as strangely impersonal, strangely callous. did she know dodson? or is she just invoking his death in an attempt at emotionally blackmailing people into banning a twitter account?
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 May 2018 00:23 (five years ago) link
btw the author of that medium piece is a real piece of work from what i can tell and is definitely in the tank for some constellation of alt-right/MRA/antifeminism, mainly under the banner of being just oh so worried about the suppression of free speech. her schtick/credibility bid is to say that she had some brief period of being seduced by feminists and BLM before realizing it was all a sham and coming to her senses thanks to obsessively watching youtube videos of trump, milo, and the english defense league. presumably this is also where bases her pretense that she and the alt-right figures she trucks with "banter sometimes about (her) liberal-leaning views." but just to be clear, she has another article on there all about highlighting murders committed by migrants from the middle east. so the posture of being a liberal interested in a calmer, moderated conversation is disingenuous; the goal of the article is just what it looks like, to treat fascists and antifascists as both-sidesy whatabouts. if the use of the phrase "alt-left" wasn't a giveaway of that by itself, note the weird focus on the idea that the mayor and the cops in charlottesville were insufficiently protecting the Unite The Right demonstrators. in reality there is considerable reason to believe that they were inadequately protecting charlottesville residents and the counter-protestors from the heavily-armed white supremacists who had shown up to threaten everybody. at the very least, considering who attempted to murder whom during those events, and who was actually killed and hospitalized, her aim here can only be a deliberate muddling of the issue and rewriting of the narrative. her article is not "brutal," it's garbage. don't give her clicks.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 May 2018 01:05 (five years ago) link
I have friends in Charlottesville ( I lived there for several years) so this medium article has been appearing on their feeds. That terrible weekend is still an intruding presence in their lives every single day. They are still appearing on dox lists and having people like K3ssler show up at their work.
I dunno, with the numbing amount of death that occurs, it's human not to shed tears over this guy overdosing.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 01:15 (five years ago) link
Gah and i should say that medium blog post not article. I don't want to automatically assign important to medium.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 01:20 (five years ago) link
The writer's Twitter (@lucyfrown) is enlightening.
Protesting is incredibly psychologically and emotionally draining. It is made so by those that police it a matter of course to dissuade it. This is routinely done to inhibit the act. You are presenting yrself to assert a view. Don't do it lightly.
― lilcraigyboi (Craigo Boingo), Thursday, 24 May 2018 06:23 (five years ago) link
to treat fascists and antifascists as both-sidesy whatabouts
the reflex reaction against this which uses some notional morality as a way of feeling good/performatively not-bad about someone dying is dangerous & dehumanising
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 May 2018 08:21 (five years ago) link
Yeah Lucy Brown was one of the organisers of the 'day for freedom' far-right rally in London the other week, it's pretty clear where she really stands.
https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2018/05/08/day-freedom-new-threat-emerges/
― Gavin, Leeds, Thursday, 24 May 2018 08:24 (five years ago) link
Lol, 1-1
― Spiderman pointing at himself.img (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 24 May 2018 10:38 (five years ago) link
― maura, Thursday, 24 May 2018 12:39 (five years ago) link
i think there is a meaningful enough difference between white supremacists advocating violence and people showing up to oppose them that my suspicion of "both sides" tropes in an article by a white supremacist is not just a "reflex reaction" or a way to make myself feel good. sorry. "feeling performatively not-bad"? i didn't get out of bed planning to have feelings on the death of this guy i'd never heard of one way or the other, but i'm sure not going to be shamed, by someone who organizes right-wing rallies herself, into giving a shit about a guy who marched with a torch at charlottesville. i wonder if he felt performatively not-bad about the death of heather heyer, or the nineteen other people injured in the car attack which he imho helped precipitate.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 May 2018 13:23 (five years ago) link
I can assure anyone who’s wondering that when I feel not-bad about dead people it is in no way performative. Five people died while I was writing that! I probably DGAF about any of them!
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 May 2018 13:34 (five years ago) link
And any amount of performativity by people who can’t get with this lady’s manipulative shtick is an order of magnitude less ridiculous and scenery-chewing than the act she’s putting on
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 May 2018 13:39 (five years ago) link
apology accepted DC. the sun is shining so I will try to be patient in the face of yr indignantly bad reading comprehension. I share the suspicion of 'both sides' tropes, I just don't think it justifies a move to "it's less bad when these people die/suffer" which is such a common sentiment on the righteous left. if you don't care about someone's death, stay quiet.
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 May 2018 13:49 (five years ago) link
i don't think lucy brown, given what's been posted about her on the thread, is trying to "shame people into caring". i think her writing shows classic troll-style disingenuousness and is more oriented towards goading people into reacting. i'm not saying "don't feed the trolls", that's not a good tactic to adopt, but i don't think it's beneficial to argue with them on _their terms_. by arguing about whether the guy who killed himself is a "good person" or not you've committed yourself to an argument that one, you can't possibly win, and two, is going to make _you_ look like the asshole.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 May 2018 13:49 (five years ago) link
I posted it because this was just one piece of a lot of news that has been happening recently (with all of the sentencings from the rally) and that they are actively trying to make this guy a martyr.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:12 (five years ago) link
Horst Incel
― Spiderman pointing at himself.img (Bananaman Begins), Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:19 (five years ago) link
yes. and specifically, to make this guy a martyr as a way of canceling out that other news, to "what about the terrible crimes of the alt-left, such as, i heard a nazi killed himself?"it's not a matter of it being "it's less bad when these people die/suffer," as that this guy's death is not relevant, important, newsworthy or interesting, except to his family and friends i assume, and to cynical fascists wielding it to try and either establish a both-sides narrative or just troll the internet. not every person who dies gets a moment of silence on ilx or anywhere else - why should he, exactly? except to balance some imagined scales between him and people that his nazi buddies assaulted in order to "perform" a belief that all life is sacred? that's the both-sides-ism at work.obviously i am much more sympathetic to those responding in terms of the epidemic of unaddressed mental health struggles and suicide generally. in that sense every death is an avoidable tragedy and i am not interested in making light of suicide. i just ask that you forgive me not being able to extend my emotional energies as far as "performatively" weeping for torch-carrying nazis/sympathizers. i have personal reasons for this with charlottesville particularly but again vis-a-vis this thread, the nazi sympathizer troll author of this blog post is specifically trying to exploit our ethical commitment to people suffering as a way to martyr this guy. the argument would need a total bottom-up rewrite to become something i'd be obliged to take seriously as a moral dilemma that prompts me to challenge my conflicting values etc etc.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:32 (five years ago) link
~300 more deaths in the US since my last post in the thread btw
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:39 (five years ago) link
Dr. C otm, the narrative being created around the death does not just deserve pushback, it requires it.
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:40 (five years ago) link
I really didn't want to turn this into a suicide/overdose or performative grieving thread, I think people should feel however they feel about death. Sorry! I think there is still another rally planned in Cville for this August despite the city's attempts to prevent it.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:41 (five years ago) link
Yerac I am from C-ville and was just there, they've changed a lot of the rules about public gatherings (unsurprisingly) so I hope that helps.
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
Oh really? I was there from the mid 90s to 2000s (at pl4n 9, UT$, 'TJyou). I've been keeping up to date on everything from the people associated with <<< those who were directly affected. There is still a lot of ptsd.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 14:46 (five years ago) link
whoa
have not lived there since the mid-80's but I may have bought records from you at that store on a visit home
yeah a friend's kid got hit by the car (is OK but...), people are still freaked out
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 May 2018 15:07 (five years ago) link
DC you've construed a distaste for ppl publicly making a point of their lack of empathy for a recent suicide as a demand that ppl do the opposite
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 May 2018 15:17 (five years ago) link
which "ppl" are you talking about? i think i have construed right-wing activist and mythmaker lucy brown pretty accurately.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 May 2018 15:36 (five years ago) link
anyone
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 May 2018 15:42 (five years ago) link
DC I was getting confused about what you were trying to express too (and I went back through the thread), so I left it alone.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 15:44 (five years ago) link
now I feel bad that I even read that stupid Medium article, various things about it (referring to nuclear energy as "clean and renewable", stuff about Mayor/cops not adequately protecting the nazis, the handwringing about antifa weapons but not y'know nazis carrying assault rifles) raised my suspicions but know I feel stupid I gave her a click.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 May 2018 16:03 (five years ago) link
I don't think medium really generates much money, if at all, for writers. So, there's that.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 16:14 (five years ago) link
― j., Thursday, 24 May 2018 16:19 (five years ago) link
if she commits suicide because we hound her off of medium.com should we feel guilty
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 24 May 2018 16:49 (five years ago) link
No. Also, keep us updated.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 16:50 (five years ago) link
medium pays on claps
― maura, Thursday, 24 May 2018 17:51 (five years ago) link
Thanks, for some reason I thought it was based on clicks by members.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 May 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
deleted a post above at user request (sorryI didn't see it for two days). worth noting that the author has indeed been hounding off medium.com
That's curious - my @Medium account has been shut down. pic.twitter.com/zFuQZWUOEq— Lucy Brown (@lucyfrown) May 24, 2018
― mod, Saturday, 26 May 2018 14:44 (five years ago) link
hounded
― how's life, Saturday, 26 May 2018 14:44 (five years ago) link
Lol that was fast
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 26 May 2018 14:45 (five years ago) link
― Elonio Grimesci (wins), Saturday, 26 May 2018 16:35 (five years ago) link
YEAH! (on medium kickout)
― Yerac, Saturday, 26 May 2018 16:43 (five years ago) link
nice.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 26 May 2018 17:18 (five years ago) link
Also want to remind that this thread is deindexed.
― mod, Saturday, 26 May 2018 17:30 (five years ago) link
here in portland the question of the moment is whether the guy who ran over three women at portland state yesterday is alt-right or not. in the meantime some anonymous people are making vague threats demanding that jordan peterson's upcoming appearance here be cancelled. this is hugely annoying because now of course the argument is going to be whether anonymous threats are ok instead of whether or not jordan peterson's upcoming appearance should be cancelled.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Saturday, 26 May 2018 17:52 (five years ago) link
Was at a 3 year old's birthday party this weekend and one of the dads was wearing a KEK t shirt and it bummed me out the whole time.
― DPRK Nowitzki (EMEL), Tuesday, 29 May 2018 17:00 (five years ago) link
oh god :(
― maura, Tuesday, 29 May 2018 17:11 (five years ago) link
discovered one of the students from my lgbt group who graduated a couple years back has gone alt right, she is dating a cop who has a kn1ghts t3mpl4r pic as his cover page
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Tuesday, 29 May 2018 23:17 (five years ago) link
It’s a phase
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 29 May 2018 23:20 (five years ago) link
im hoping so.
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Tuesday, 29 May 2018 23:27 (five years ago) link
The Proud Boys/Patrot Prayer shitheads were in Portland this weekend, too
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 4 June 2018 22:37 (five years ago) link
one of the dads was wearing a KEK t shirt
fuckin hell. did anyone else know what it was and/or make mention of it?
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 4 June 2018 22:42 (five years ago) link
No, and I was too pissed off and embarrassed to ask anyone else if they knew.
― DPRK Nowitzki (EMEL), Monday, 4 June 2018 23:08 (five years ago) link
prob for the best. i doubt i would have said anything unless someone around me remarked upon it. just sat there and silently raged. super healthy.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Monday, 4 June 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link
I wouldn't have been able to help myself saying something like "well, you're a bigoted internet nerd, eh?"
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 4 June 2018 23:42 (five years ago) link
I kinda wouldn't want a child of mine to be in contact w/ a kid whose dad thinks that's ok to wear at a kid's party but I also 100% get that it's not the kid's fault and if you did something you'd end up the asshole. :(
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 5 June 2018 10:04 (five years ago) link
If it shows up again, why not accidentally spill something on it, rendering it unwearable? That’s gotta be what mustard is for.
― suzy, Tuesday, 5 June 2018 11:32 (five years ago) link
'oh noes i spilled my glass of bleach, i'm so sorry'
― and TOWERS MONACO as 'seaman' (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 5 June 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
Anything with turmeric in would work brilliantly, especially if it was a 25¢-sized dollop somewhere around the midriff.
― suzy, Tuesday, 5 June 2018 11:38 (five years ago) link
the potential problem here i suppose is that the type of asshole who happily wears a 'kek' tshirt to a kids' party could easily also be the type of asshole who would happily wear a horribly-stained 'kek' tshirt to a kids' party
― and TOWERS MONACO as 'seaman' (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 5 June 2018 11:42 (five years ago) link
http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/21/america-wont-see-go-without-epic-fight/
These dudes are really dialing it up a notch, huh. This apocalyptic violence fantasy seems reflected in the Trump chumps I'm encountering on Twitter.
― funzone76, Thursday, 21 June 2018 17:55 (five years ago) link
Jesse is a Marine Corps combat veteran, former congressional candidate in Arizona, and host of "Jesse Kelly Brief." Jesse resides in the Houston area with his wife and two sons.Photo Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Bradley C. Church
Photo Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Bradley C. Church
Stupid cunts.
― womp womp that sucker (Tom D.), Thursday, 21 June 2018 18:02 (five years ago) link
Jesse sucks
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 21 June 2018 18:29 (five years ago) link
So, barring some unforeseen awakening, America is heading for an eventual socialist abyss. It is really only a matter of dates. Will we all die in the inevitable communist purges within ten years? Of course not. Will it happen within the next century or two? Almost certainly.
― omar little, Thursday, 21 June 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
I know I ought not ask but in what fucking alternate reality do dipshits like this think they're living in?
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 21 June 2018 18:49 (five years ago) link
former congressional candidate in Arizona
Strange idea, boasting that you are a loser. I mean, any of us could be a congressional candidate, too. All we need is to pay a relatively small filing fee to appear on the ballot and then sink without a trace.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 21 June 2018 18:55 (five years ago) link
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, June 21, 2018 6:49 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i mean i share the sense (Global Warming's Terrifying New Math + global migration to thread) that we're heading for a nasty confrontation between the socialist/radical left and the white nationalist radical right. The migration patterns won't ease, the climate/climate-adjacent refugee crisis won't slow, and I think within our lifetimes that old chestnut about humanity's need to choose between socialism or barbarism is gonna cleave ever sharper.
But I don't particularly enjoy these thoughts the way this guy seems to.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 21 June 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
Re that final paragraph of Jesse's there, why is is that these dudes keep referring to their ultimate nightmare, literally the worst thing they can imagine, as being '57 genders' (or sometimes fewer)? I mean it's a bit.. weedy. Doesn't it show a real lack of creative thinking..like, THAT is your apocalyptic vision of the death of America?
― piscesx, Thursday, 21 June 2018 20:02 (five years ago) link
there's never a good answer to how it actually affects any of them.
― omar little, Thursday, 21 June 2018 20:06 (five years ago) link
just, you know, having to SEE them. being. existing, being different from them. blood-boiling. there's occasionally the boogieman of being compelled to recognize and correctly use the "57 pronouns" and it's like, dude, we know you still use the f-word talking about gay people so why would i assume you would ever feel the slightest pressure to get this shit right? and if it was mandatory at a job or something you know they would either (a) JUMP at the chance to defy these rules and make themselves snitty little martyrs or (b) comply with it and then JUMP at the chance to complain about it online and on talk radio until the end of time. their forefathers have gotten decades of testosterone-pumping ego-boosts and hate-stoking whining about not being able to use the n-word. as apocalyptic visions of the death of america go, one imagines it would look remarkably like the present, in practice.
― noel gallaghah's high flying burbbhrbhbbhbburbbb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 21 June 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
hoos otm
― goole, Friday, 22 June 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
also worth noting that this jesse fuckwad and the whole FDRLST whine machine is not really alt-right by any of its classic definitions. if those even hold anymore.
weirdo coup and final reckoning fantasies are kind of a perennial thing on the right
― goole, Friday, 22 June 2018 20:43 (five years ago) link
A millenarian fantasy really.
― valorous wokelord (silby), Friday, 22 June 2018 20:45 (five years ago) link
tbf I'd be all for purging them
― Kostic negotiator (Noodle Vague), Friday, 22 June 2018 20:46 (five years ago) link
two lads on train near Knaresborough, probably around 17, arguing about gun control.
Not specifically alt-right but the one arguing for less gun control sounded exactly like Paul Joseph Watson, obviously similar accent was a lot to do with it but same delivery. Kind of talked down at the other lad, though they were both kind of doing it.
'more guns means more chance of them being USED TO HURT PEOPLE"'you dont KNOW THAT until you TRY IT''statistics show...'
Clearly neither of these lada have any intention of ever owning a gun themselves
― anvil, Saturday, 23 June 2018 05:35 (five years ago) link
putting this here as it seems to fit- it's quite somethinghttps://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/264627/the-story-of-q
― Neil S, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
thought the revive would be about this
Yiannopoulos is now apparently advocating "for the vigilante squads to start gunning journalists down on sight,” and sending anti-Semitic messages to Jewish journalists. https://t.co/y4rEsV8WdP— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) June 26, 2018
wonder if the left is gonna respond to this by gently chiding Maxine Waters some more
― frogbs, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:38 (five years ago) link
why are ppl still covering his schmuck, he has no power
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:40 (five years ago) link
He's in his Bolo Phase.
― Making Plans For Sturgill (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 26 June 2018 21:42 (five years ago) link
he sent a $14.88 paypal donation to the new yorker fact checker who ice harassed into quitting her job. i wish it was possible to block someone from the world
― maura, Wednesday, 27 June 2018 13:48 (five years ago) link
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/evkeza/neo-nazi-who-killed-heather-heyer-in-charlottesville-was-just-charged-with-29-hate-crimes?utm_source=dmfb
― Making Plans For Sturgill (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 18:14 (five years ago) link
While I am against the death penalty I won’t say I don’t hope he fries.
― devops mom (silby), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 18:16 (five years ago) link
Milo and Paul Joseph Planet have joined UKIP.
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 19:27 (five years ago) link
In a case of two sinking boats climbing on board a sinking boat.
https://theconversation.com/schools-must-equip-students-to-navigate-alt-right-websites-that-push-fake-news-97166
meanwhile, this is not necessarily a rigorous study but very plausible -- the way digital literacy is taught is an obsolete joke, advice from decades ago (often literally pulled from old teaching materials) barely updated with the phrase "fake news," and the way persuasive essay writing is taught is often just "here's your assigned viewpoint, now find 3 sources that agree with it." I'm not a history teacher and don't plan to teach anything that involves essay-writing but I'd honestly rather accept Wikipedia than an alt-right media source, despite that going against most tenets of "what not to cite."
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 20:59 (five years ago) link
like, this handout from a New Jersey school district (I just googled around until I found something from a school district media center, the above link does include NJ teachers) is representative of the "how to spot reliable sources" content I've read, and my day job is such that I read a lot of this. and it's complete garbage in 2018, written for an internet where 5th grade classes still make easily-googleable Angelfire sites about the carbon cycle or some shit. who in this millennium has used the word "webmaster"? http://www.clifton.k12.nj.us/schools/ms.mediactr/pdf/carrds_defined.pdf
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 27 June 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
Responding to our story @Mediaite about his encouragement of violence against reporters, Milo Yiannopoulos sent me an ominous message: pic.twitter.com/PhRd9Dv39J— Amy Russo (@amymrusso) June 26, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
yeah but please tell me we shouldn't continue to worry about Milo et al jfc
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
leaving his bolo tie phase, entering his y’all gonna die phase
― Fox News' Chad Pergram contributed to this report (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:14 (five years ago) link
Fuck that deflated Macy's balloon in his puckered ugly ass mouth.
― maura, Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:19 (five years ago) link
I shouldn’t be surprised but I’ll never understand why the alt-right isn’t worthy of a moral panic at least on par with video games or heavy metal
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:31 (five years ago) link
because they're on the right wing's side, duh
― maura, Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:34 (five years ago) link
think about how much panty-twisting has gone on over antifa
yeah I know :-/
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Thursday, 28 June 2018 21:36 (five years ago) link
quelle surprise
https://www.salon.com/2018/06/30/exclusive-accused-annapolis-shooter-had-deep-dark-links-to-the-alt-right/
― Simon H., Saturday, 30 June 2018 13:44 (five years ago) link
have they changed the headline from 'deep, dark links to the alt-right' to just 'dark links to the alt-right'? the article doesn't really seem to contain much evidence of *any* links, tbh
― soref, Saturday, 30 June 2018 18:48 (five years ago) link
^ and there again silly question but like Peterson isn't Milo meant to be a martyr for free speech so why's he saying journalists should be shot, eh
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Saturday, 30 June 2018 22:40 (five years ago) link
I do think it's interesting to see this position articulated in plain sight now - a strong valorisation of offense, combined with strong animosity toward people who criticise actual power. This position has been beloved of idiots for a long time obviously but it's not always put so clearly as here.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Saturday, 30 June 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link
can we talk about this photohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/local/he-once-defended-the-poor-in-court-now-he-defends-white-supremacists/2018/07/01/0c7bfa6a-6901-11e8-9e38-24e693b38637_story.html?utm_term=.8f7bfc241995
what is it with right-wing lawyers and their anachronistic facial hair/stylings
― Οὖτις, Monday, 2 July 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/mgN7wyqCiRvSv7az_CnU4Nkq72U=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/FYQ73HC6AUI6RNSWENWGEFHPAE.jpg
You know what it is
― devops mom (silby), Monday, 2 July 2018 19:29 (five years ago) link
a desire to live in the 1840s?
― Οὖτις, Monday, 2 July 2018 19:30 (five years ago) link
was gonna post "confederate cosplay", but then i was like eh that's glib, i'll click through instead:
The mutton-chopped Virginia defense lawyer, a one-time Civil War reenactor
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 2 July 2018 19:32 (five years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/ibdKevM.jpg
― Neil S, Monday, 2 July 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/fan/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhiddenremote.com%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F02%2FIts-Always-Sunny-in-Philadelphia-Episodic-Images-1-23.jpg&c=sc&w=850&h=560
― devops mom (silby), Monday, 2 July 2018 19:37 (five years ago) link
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/EId0oEIDwqo/hqdefault.jpg
― devops mom (silby), Monday, 2 July 2018 19:38 (five years ago) link
anytime Charlie goes to court is A+ lolz
― Οὖτις, Monday, 2 July 2018 19:42 (five years ago) link
It's not just an American phenomenon, this arsehole's been trolling people in Scotland for more years than the Scottish nation cares to remember or admit:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/01/1414837410121_wps_10_Donald_Findlay_QC_outside.jpg
― Alan Alba (Tom D.), Monday, 2 July 2018 20:20 (five years ago) link
After all, Scottish Protestant bigots are what made the USA what it is today.
― Alan Alba (Tom D.), Monday, 2 July 2018 20:21 (five years ago) link
I see he's doing an 'audience with' thing at the Edinburgh Festival.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Monday, 2 July 2018 20:29 (five years ago) link
For real I thought that lawyer was this dude who wrote an extremely thoughtful piece about Jay-Z a few months ago: https://www.city-journal.org/contributor/myron-magnet_123
― JoeStork, Monday, 2 July 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
myron... magnet?
― Fox News' Chad Pergram contributed to this report (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 2 July 2018 22:14 (five years ago) link
no relation to penelope magnet I assume
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 15:04 (five years ago) link
If he becomes a big deal in magnetic metals he could be 'Magnet Magnate, Magnet'.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 15:06 (five years ago) link
damn think my buddy might be alt-right but not copping to it. he's defended every decision trump's made - he's cool otherwise, but god this shit's gonna bungle our friendship. no idea how to deal with it
― Ross, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
That’s not “cool otherwise” that’s just a guy who sucks
― devops mom (silby), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 15:49 (five years ago) link
reporting him to the Elders of Zion fyi
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 15:51 (five years ago) link
what kind of superheroic extracurricular deeds does a relentless trump supporter doing to qualify as "cool otherwise"?
― This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 3 July 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
release 5 shitty albums in 5 weeks, presumably
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 July 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
Are there any gaps in his life that this stuff - Trumpism or alt right or whatever piece of this vibe it is that he's snorting - is filling? That might be the way.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 4 July 2018 20:30 (five years ago) link
everything is fine
https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-roe-v-wade-a-disturbing-anti-abortion-film-featuring-milo-yiannopoulos-and-tomi-lahren
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 6 July 2018 16:34 (five years ago) link
At the Seth Rich conspiracy theory press conference, where a masked witness is supposed to appear. pic.twitter.com/GlgmCYLEdt— Will Sommer (@willsommer) July 10, 2018
― Simon H., Tuesday, 10 July 2018 18:21 (five years ago) link
so weird that none of these seth rich conspiracies ever unearth anything consequential
just shows u how powerful the deep state really is, i guess
― there’s gonna be a hot time in the ol’ tub machine tonight (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 10 July 2018 20:28 (five years ago) link
so long, assholehttps://www.sfgate.com/local/article/Far-right-Bay-Area-figure-Kyle-Based-Stickman-13063731.php
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 20:07 (five years ago) link
In August 2017, a judge barred him from carrying any weapons, but in November, he posted a video on Facebook telling viewers that he carries a kubotan — a small, high-impact plastic weapon — because of the conditions of his bail."This is what I carry on my key chain, guys," he said in the video, which has since been taken down. "I will peel your scalp with this thing ... very, very effective weapon."
"This is what I carry on my key chain, guys," he said in the video, which has since been taken down. "I will peel your scalp with this thing ... very, very effective weapon."
love too brag about my crimes on facebook
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 21:36 (five years ago) link
Shortly thereafter, he was again arrested in December 2017 for operating a vehicle off designated roads (while loudly playing Christmas music) near Fort Funston in San Francisco
;)
― burzum buddies (brownie), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 23:03 (five years ago) link
Based Shithead
― Making Plans For Sturgill (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 11 July 2018 23:04 (five years ago) link
“Chapman was identified by a witness at the bar who recognized him from the previous day's protest footage. Officers also observed surveillance footage of Chapman buying a drink at the bar using his wife's credit card.”what a beta
― maura, Wednesday, 11 July 2018 23:33 (five years ago) link
maxed all his out on a cash advance to pay his bail, I really hope
― mh, Thursday, 12 July 2018 00:20 (five years ago) link
white supremacists shocked that white supremacists are terrible
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/jason-kessler-tells-alt-right-activists-to-stay-away-from-neo-nazis-at-unite-the-right-2/
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 13 July 2018 16:48 (five years ago) link
eh not really, that's dogwhistle to his nazi compatriots to not be so overt about it (while also explicitly arguing that anyone that *is* overt about it is probably not an actual nazi but is instead an agent provocateur). This has been the standard line from people like Milo and Richard Spencer for years - you can *nudge nudge*/*wink wink* with the Nazi shit, but don't go goose-stepping in yr Nazi LARP gear. It's a PR decision.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 July 2018 16:53 (five years ago) link
if they really thought the other group was so terrible they wouldn't be attending the same events!
― mh, Friday, 13 July 2018 17:13 (five years ago) link
exactly
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 July 2018 17:16 (five years ago) link
that's basically what I was getting at, yes
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 13 July 2018 17:53 (five years ago) link
fascist whiners hounded out of LA bar
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/397177-proud-boys-group-run-out-of-la-bar-by-democratic-socialists-calling
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 July 2018 15:01 (five years ago) link
Well done
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 July 2018 15:17 (five years ago) link
Right on. This is pretty much my favorite thing DSA does at this point.
― Simon H., Monday, 16 July 2018 15:26 (five years ago) link
TIL there's a black metal band called Neckbeard Deathcamp and they have an album out called White Nationalism Is For Basement Dwelling Losers and I just pic.twitter.com/8soWhX63eK— Noam Folfsky (@edgedestroys) July 25, 2018
― Dan I., Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:46 (five years ago) link
IF ANYTHING I'LL BE THE ONE IN THE KITCHEN
― frogbs, Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:48 (five years ago) link
I managed to snag one of the shirts
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:49 (five years ago) link
incel warfare!!!! not even human!!!!
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:50 (five years ago) link
black metal vs white supremacy
― a Stupendous Leg of Granite (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:51 (five years ago) link
hahahaa this is great
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:58 (five years ago) link
it's actually pretty good as metal
― imago, Thursday, 26 July 2018 18:59 (five years ago) link
"zyklon /b/" song title of the year
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
lmao @ the "please respond" lyrics, holy shit
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:03 (five years ago) link
well done to this band, looking forward to hearing how it's not big or clever
― the Joao looked at Jonny (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:09 (five years ago) link
it's good
― mh, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
already considering offering up the shirt as the 2018 metal poll contest prize
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
"Send as gift" YESSSSSSS
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:24 (five years ago) link
it has the Anthony Fantano seal of approval
already heard it. it's hilarious.— thee anthony fantano (@theneedledrop) July 25, 2018
― soref, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
THANKS FOR RUINING IT
― the Joao looked at Jonny (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
fantano's ilx rehabilitation begins here
― imago, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:27 (five years ago) link
i feel like you should be autobanned if you post a fantano tweet
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
^^^^^^
― the Joao looked at Jonny (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:29 (five years ago) link
look, it's not my fault that you all have the exact same musical tastes as Anthony Fantano
― soref, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:30 (five years ago) link
ok *that's* where i reach for my fp
― the Joao looked at Jonny (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:31 (five years ago) link
going to launch a range of t-shirts that have the phrase I SHARE THE CULTURAL SENSIBILITIES OF A MAN WHO DESCRIBES HIMSELF AS 'THE INTERNET'S BUSIEST MUSIC NERD' printed on the front
― soref, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:38 (five years ago) link
double fp
― mh, Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:40 (five years ago) link
― soref, Thursday, July 26, 2018 3:30 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
actual lol
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:42 (five years ago) link
wasn't he co signing the alt right like a year ago
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:55 (five years ago) link
FPing myself for even indulging this
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, 26 July 2018 19:59 (five years ago) link
I need for all my friends to leave me alone about this fucking record
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 26 July 2018 20:33 (five years ago) link
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, July 26, 2018 6:49 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
!!
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 26 July 2018 20:44 (five years ago) link
oic
https://www.theroot.com/diversity-of-thought-is-just-a-euphemism-for-white-supr-1825191839
insane motherfucker
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2018 15:32 (five years ago) link
You think he's wrong?
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Friday, 3 August 2018 16:00 (five years ago) link
I think Morbs is referring to the college professor as the insane motherfucker
and otm
― mh, Friday, 3 August 2018 16:01 (five years ago) link
Ah, I see.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Friday, 3 August 2018 16:37 (five years ago) link
howbout the professor and the author
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2018 16:44 (five years ago) link
I suppose you could defend the headline by arguing it refers to "diversity of thought" rather than diversity of thought
still the slope slipperiness factor is high
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 3 August 2018 16:45 (five years ago) link
It's referring to it as a rhetorical trick, so yeah, it's "diversity of thought".
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Friday, 3 August 2018 17:23 (five years ago) link
yeah the people who came up with "diversity of thought" are the weird racist fucks, not the writer of the article
― mh, Friday, 3 August 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
These fucks will be in Portland tomorrow, holding their rally in an area where you can concealed-carry:
http://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2018/08/03/portland-police-will-establish-weapons-checks-at-saturday-patriot-prayer-rally-but-will-not-take-guns-from-licensed-owners/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 3 August 2018 23:25 (five years ago) link
i was going to do a volunteer orientation tomorrow but i guess now that there's a riot scheduled in the area i'll have to put it off.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Friday, 3 August 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
ARMED RACISTS: Less than an hour before the protest in #Portland and Patriot Prayer along with other alt-right members are getting tooled up! They don't see this as a Protest, they see it as a war.#DefendPDX #AllOutPDX pic.twitter.com/HIE6fAGrPc— Anti-Fascist Intel (@AntifaIntel) August 4, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Saturday, 4 August 2018 18:00 (five years ago) link
The honest truth is that the category of dumb fuckers those dumb fucks belong to makes them vastly more likely to harm themselves and/or each other than anyone else. This is why I’m not especially intimidated by people like that.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 4 August 2018 18:07 (five years ago) link
funny, that's not how it worked out in Charlottesville
― sleeve, Saturday, 4 August 2018 18:20 (five years ago) link
The military thinking demonstrated by the occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge was rather low grade, but they did show some tactical thinking and some discipline. Most white supremacists may look and talk like bozos, but there are enough vets mixed in you shouldn't discount them as entirely clueless about weaponry and tactical violence.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 4 August 2018 18:21 (five years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/upshot/gun-deaths-are-mostly-suicides.htmlhttps://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use/http://johnrlott.tripod.com/whitney.pdfQED
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
maybe when neo-Nazi types are hanging out at home with their buddies they are prone to shooting themselves or one another accidentally, but that would not seem especially relevant to street fighting, especially against unarmed counter-protestors.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
El TombotoPosted: August 4, 2018 at 14:07:39The honest truth is that the category of dumb fuckers those dumb fucks belong to makes them vastly more likely to harm themselves and/or each other than anyone else. This is why I’m not especially intimidated by people like that.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:30 (five years ago) link
Has there ever been a militant group that would be so easy to infiltrate?
― Roomba with an attitude (Sanpaku), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:36 (five years ago) link
That would require anyone responsible was at all interested in infiltrating these groups.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:39 (five years ago) link
fwiw I think that the more "serious" WP groups are much closer in kind to paramilitary/criminal organizations and a lot harder to infiltrate than, like, 4chan
― gbx, Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:42 (five years ago) link
I'm sure a good 5-10% are FBI and other law enforcement, keeping an eye. But even in the event of some insurrection, I suspect they'd fall apart as their leaders were fragged.
― Roomba with an attitude (Sanpaku), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:45 (five years ago) link
I'm sure a good 5-10% are FBI and other law enforcement, keeping an eye.
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 4 August 2018 19:59 (five years ago) link
maybe not fbi necessarily, but
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 4 August 2018 20:02 (five years ago) link
If they're anything like the UK law enforcement responsible for such things they're too busy 'infiltrating' (i.e. knocking up) hippies to worry about people firebombing mosques and attacking/killing leftists etc.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 4 August 2018 20:12 (five years ago) link
https://www.unicornriot.ninja/2018/patriot-prayer-and-anti-fascists-face-off-in-portland/
Live video feed
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, 4 August 2018 20:57 (five years ago) link
Hmm. I hope everyone's being safe.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 4 August 2018 21:04 (five years ago) link
I’m not scared of ths current crop of alt right losers, who are generally more incompetent and cowardly than their forebears
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 4 August 2018 21:07 (five years ago) link
I'm more worried about the police getting flustered and cracking some heads.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Saturday, 4 August 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
Crying about being arrested in their youtubes, conspiring to bone their stepmoms, getting punched in the face during interviews etc. these guys are clowns.
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 4 August 2018 21:09 (five years ago) link
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd)
we have a good police commissioner in portland. the head of the police union is a fucking moron, but our police commissioner is ok.
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Saturday, 4 August 2018 23:18 (five years ago) link
Minneapolis's police union head BOB KKKroll is such a racist piece of shit and seems to be able to basically de facto overrule or severely undermine attempts by commissioners or mayors to change anything
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 4 August 2018 23:27 (five years ago) link
As someone on twitter pointed out, cops are much more likely to try to disperse antifa than the fash (as has apparently been the case today), which makes it easier for the latter to swarm the former a little later on. I've seen this dynamic play out firsthand.
Fuck cops.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Saturday, 4 August 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
Yeah fuck PPD in particular, frienda mine who used to live there regularly had to deal with getting Less Lethal’d by those shits
― devops mom (silby), Saturday, 4 August 2018 23:38 (five years ago) link
report from Portland lending credence to TOmbot's pov:
This is extra hilarious: so the Proud Boys (what a dipshit Peter Pan name for your gang of dickless clowns) and Patriot Prayer (stop it) decided that a Fred Meyer parking lot in the Vancouver was the right place to load up their out-of-towers and bus them into Portland for shit-stirring. Fred Meyer has responded to this poor organizational decision with a fleet of tow trucks, which promptly took their cars to the $1000 impound lot. It is illegal to park in their lot and leave, after all. This is a fitting clapback to the uninvited bad publicity they got with the weird decision to use that lot in the first place.
― sleeve, Sunday, 5 August 2018 04:04 (five years ago) link
A Portland anti-fascist protestor was hit in the head with a flash bang grenade; it basically seems like he survives because he wore a helmet.In the third photograph, you can see Portland police officers grinning after firing the grenade. https://t.co/YYRg5MFj5W— Zoé (@ztsamudzi) August 5, 2018
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 04:05 (five years ago) link
That’s PPD! They love violently suppressing protests, except for fascist ones.
― devops mom (silby), Sunday, 5 August 2018 04:10 (five years ago) link
The media coverage of today’s event from national outlets was fuckin’ terrible.
Kinda weird headline when a police projectile appears to have shot clean through a protester's helmet and injured him, and when one of your paper's reporters was photographed bleeding from the head. Also, plenty of fighting on side streets. https://t.co/DD2f27T1lX— Corey Pein 😃🤑😐😩💀 (@coreypein) August 5, 2018
Protests converge in Portland, but remain mostly peaceful https://t.co/wwagRodrL9 pic.twitter.com/10tsLv8tSs— The Oregonian (@Oregonian) August 5, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 5 August 2018 05:02 (five years ago) link
(And that’s even the local paper, owned by republicans from Orange County)
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 5 August 2018 05:03 (five years ago) link
The Portland police are also on record saying that Patriot Prayer is "more mainstream" (guess Kek flags, people who attended Unite the Right, and shirts celebrating mass murderers are mainstream now) despite the ongoing links between far-Right violence and out right killers. pic.twitter.com/0h6bWdSA6U— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) August 5, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 5 August 2018 05:07 (five years ago) link
so, er
@jordanbpeterson I am so gutted by the treatment The Guardian -and some of the well to do media- has given you this week. You have all my support and many thanks for your clarity and -oh too rare- courage to speak the truth!— Lætitia Sadier (@SadierLae) February 12, 2018
― Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:22 (five years ago) link
we've been over that on some other threads, but yeah, shit sucks.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:29 (five years ago) link
Right how many threads has that been posted on now? Four or five?
― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
There's a couple of threads on I LOVE CRICKET: THE CHINATOWN OF ILX which that hasn't been posted on yet, but one of the mods said that should be rolled out board-wide by the end of the week
― anvil, Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
I have no idea why the authorities changed "I LOVE CRICKET: THE CHINATOWN OF ILX" to 'I LOVE CRICKET: THE CHINATOWN OF ILX: THE CHINATOWN OF ILX'!
― anvil, Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
blimey
Also I just noticed the original tweet is from 6 months ago.
― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:33 (five years ago) link
So she was probably on the march yesterday.
― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Sunday, 5 August 2018 11:34 (five years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/05/far-right-protesters-ransack-socialist-bookshop-bookmarks-in-london
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 5 August 2018 12:37 (five years ago) link
number of fascist police p. much structurally guaranteed to always exceed number of antifa police
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Sunday, 5 August 2018 13:45 (five years ago) link
apologies dudes, not been on any of the other threads where this was shared and this thread sometimes becomes ILX's jordan peterson hub
― Arthur Funzonerelli (stevie), Sunday, 5 August 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
But seriously, the answer to Infowars is not begging gigantic monopolistic corporations to police speech but instead breaking up gigantic monopolistic corporations. This is the only true path to our goal of #whitegenocide https://t.co/XJj1Qm8K6Z— Jon Schwarz (@schwarz) August 6, 2018
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 August 2018 16:18 (five years ago) link
A lot of criticism rightly put on Portland’s police chief today, apparently she’s a doing a streaming conference now.
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 6 August 2018 21:42 (five years ago) link
the head of the police union is a fucking moron
pro-tip: the head of a police union is ALWAYS a fucking moron
― Οὖτις, Monday, 6 August 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link
it's a position that pretty much requires a moron
― devops mom (silby), Monday, 6 August 2018 22:04 (five years ago) link
Usually a moron, always an asshole.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 6 August 2018 22:32 (five years ago) link
never a bridesmaid
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 6 August 2018 22:51 (five years ago) link
wait
― Οὖτις, Monday, 6 August 2018 23:01 (five years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkOUIVnWwAE1OaN.jpg
― soref, Saturday, 11 August 2018 13:24 (five years ago) link
can someone explain why alt right ppl are so into anime?
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Saturday, 11 August 2018 17:39 (five years ago) link
lol is that a joke about how Otakon is also here this weekend
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 11 August 2018 17:41 (five years ago) link
because the alt right is 50% channer dipshits
― mh, Saturday, 11 August 2018 19:38 (five years ago) link
Love my swamp https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/08/10/dc-restaurants-to-white-supremacists-yes-we-will-kick-you-out/
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 12 August 2018 18:50 (five years ago) link
they did end up getting a separate subway care apparently
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Sunday, 12 August 2018 19:32 (five years ago) link
absolutely disgusting
― gbx, Sunday, 12 August 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
So you’re saying every local news source is lying?
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 12 August 2018 20:47 (five years ago) link
I only see tweets but fuck Fairfax PD if this is true. Also, lol getting rained on
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 12 August 2018 20:54 (five years ago) link
I read that they were going to get their own Metro car, but the Metro union, largely people of color, refused to cooperate and the plans were cancelled.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:22 (five years ago) link
There's extensive video of them being put on a separate train car.
In other news:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DkbY5YNU8AAQAt1.jpg
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:36 (five years ago) link
Game recognize game
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:38 (five years ago) link
yeah, I don't understand. It was reported that they would not get a separate train, and they are still claiming it is not a separate train, just a private train, that keeps them separated.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:40 (five years ago) link
Good coverage and photos here:
Lots of anti-racist + anti-fascist groups here at Freedom Plaza. Cardi B blaring from one end. pic.twitter.com/Tq11p2ATcZ— tanvi (@Tanvim) August 12, 2018
pic.twitter.com/MSkEGLA8Cj— tanvi (@Tanvim) August 12, 2018
Of course the Avakian fans are there
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:41 (five years ago) link
This guy is trying to convince a cop that an Antifa protester assaulted him. “No he did not, I witnessed it,” the cop said “He did not assault you” pic.twitter.com/1qM7HtsECM— Carol Schaeffer (@thencarolsaid) August 12, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:50 (five years ago) link
JUST IN - @wmata CLOSES Vienna station north gates to the public. A guard says Fairfax police will ONLY open these gates for #UniteTheRight2 protesters @WUSA9 pic.twitter.com/1E8fXN58x0— Mike Valerio (@MikevWUSA) August 12, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 12 August 2018 21:57 (five years ago) link
DC, now you see who was telling the truth about the racist marchers being escorted onto Metro and who lied. Wiedefeld lied to riders and public when the truth was more convenient. The fallout of today will be on him.— ATU Local 689 (@ATULocal689) August 12, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:00 (five years ago) link
Why was their request to hold a rally even approved? They murdered someone last year
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
Is that my boy treeship?!?
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:12 (five years ago) link
🤗
my neighbor has hoisted a peculiar flag today
it is a stars and stripes but the stars are in a ring around a weird shape what looks like a white masonic symbol. and i’m pretty sure there aren’t 50 stars
any ideas?
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:13 (five years ago) link
not the scouts i checked
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:14 (five years ago) link
If he put it up specifically today that doesn’t look good. Do you live in an area where someone would consider it a “safe space” to fly a white supremacist banner? Can’t imagine someone doing that out here in williamsburg
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:18 (five years ago) link
oh cool was it this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Official_Three_Percent_Flag.svg/1200px-Official_Three_Percent_Flag.svg.png
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:23 (five years ago) link
o wait you said masonic symbol
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
no but there is an exmilitary guy on the block with a big pickup truck who has that III on the back windshield (as well as various other 2A stuff and pictures of assault rifles)
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:26 (five years ago) link
i live in a very diverse area where coexist stickers outnumber nra stickers by 3 or 4 to 1
however i am in one of the few neighborhoods in the city proper where you actually see nra stickers with any regularity and it is the only one where i have seen any pro trump graffiti
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:29 (five years ago) link
it is also one of the only places in the county where you *might* see blatant symbols of hate (swastikas, kkk shit) but i haven’t personally seen that in this neighborhood since i was a little kid
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:31 (five years ago) link
I noticed the other day outside the subway some swastikas carved in the cement. I have no idea how old it is but i am thinking of contacting the city about it
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:31 (five years ago) link
Anyway i hope your neighbor is not a white supremacist. That would be an unsettling thing to live next to.
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link
i saw on my way to work the other day that somebody had put up a STOP KISSING ILLEGAL ASS sticker on the back of a stop sign and i made a note to tear it down but it had alreay been torn down by the time i got back from work
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link
they are not my immediate neighbor. my immediate neighbors are a black and latino mixed race couple (they are military and into martial arts and shooting, they have a WE DON’T CALL 911 sign w a picture of a 45 on it on the front door that i wish they’d take down)
i live in a condo complex so i actually have seven neighbors and they’re all cool. gay, straight, white, black, asian, latino, young, old etc etc
it’s the people in detached housing down the street you got to look out for /iatee
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:39 (five years ago) link
but yeah they look like nice people, white and probably xian but who knows. i assume it’s some sort of community service organization? they also had a tent on the lawn nezt to the flagpole which is why i thought of scouting first
you just never know these days
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:41 (five years ago) link
That’s true. If they seem nice and normal I’d reckon they’re not bonafide ideological nazis but who the fuck knows anymore
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:42 (five years ago) link
to summarize guns are a big thing but not sure about racism, must say that if i had to choose between having guns in the nbhd and having racists in the nbhd i might actually pick racists
― the late great, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:44 (five years ago) link
Can’t stress enough how underwhelming the #UniteTheRight2 #unitetheright group is. Twenty MAGA dudes walking inside of 100s of cops, 100s of media, and 1000s of counter demonstrators down F street pic.twitter.com/BQZBpn9oME— Scott Heins (@scottheins) August 12, 2018
it really does look more like a police parade than a rally
funny thing that
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:47 (five years ago) link
Yeah i mean even most maga people i assume aren’t down with this crowd. Which makes trump’s inability to condemn them even creepier
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:51 (five years ago) link
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Saturday, August 11, 2018 1:39 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
so are a lot of tankies ime
― No organ. (crüt), Sunday, 12 August 2018 22:58 (five years ago) link
Most maga people not into this because of course they are not racist. I mean, they'll support racists and racist policy and policy that people call racist, but march with racists? Heaven forbid, they love all kinds of people! White people, brown people, black people yellow people ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link
I am not saying they are not racist jesus fucking christ
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:06 (five years ago) link
If you want to live in a mental world where 40% of the country are equivalent to neo nazis who chanted “jews will not replace us” before running over a woman with a car, fine
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
But as milton parker pointed out, barely anyone showed up to this thing today. Which is good. It means they are not widely supported.
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link
Chill out dude, I don't like these racists or the racist maga people.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:32 (five years ago) link
cool, so we're agreed
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:32 (five years ago) link
― Trϵϵship
couldn't get across the country from the racist rally in portland last weekend in time, i gather
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
xpost not widely supported anywhere, except by the police
between this and portland/berkeley last week, fascinating to watch the police strategy for these rallies tack towards escorts & barricades & shutting down public transit services (and lying about doing so) as the best way to prevent violence
I was at Berkeley last week, it was the same thing; micro-gathering in MLK park, with police barricades roping off all public access one block off in all directions. It's a united decision.
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:37 (five years ago) link
hm, yeah it is quite fucked especially because the white supremacist groups have been the perpetrators of the violence not the victims.
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:38 (five years ago) link
you'd think someone might have alerted them to the possible optics of starting to do this nationwide, all in the same week. I suspect it didn't occur to whomever it was handing down the orders that those optics would be bad
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:48 (five years ago) link
i have this weird feeling that the ones who get "optics" on that front... maybe is ok with the way this looks /paranoid
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 12 August 2018 23:59 (five years ago) link
*maybe are ok
Police chiefs, police union leaders and their subordinate honchos mostly just want to have an excuse to fuck up antifa and BLM folks; barricading KKK wannabes is a great opportunity to get to do that
― El Tomboto, Monday, 13 August 2018 00:08 (five years ago) link
DCPD isn’t like that but I assume Fairfax totally is
― El Tomboto, Monday, 13 August 2018 00:09 (five years ago) link
Some depts are more blatant/overt than others, but given the chance, cops will side with the fash every damn time. Can't imagine why, tho
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Monday, 13 August 2018 00:44 (five years ago) link
― flappy bird, Monday, 13 August 2018 01:14 (five years ago) link
on that note...
"Map Ref. 42°N 94°W"
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Monday, 13 August 2018 01:21 (five years ago) link
ooooops wrong thread
Coordinates of the neo-Nazi stronghold.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 13 August 2018 01:23 (five years ago) link
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/us/unite-the-right-charlottesville-anniversary/index.html
apparently the white supremacists only had around two dozen people show up on their side today
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 13 August 2018 03:15 (five years ago) link
kind of freaked out that I'm apparently a 45 minute drive from the neo-nazi stronghold
― mh, Monday, 13 August 2018 13:33 (five years ago) link
think of it as on opportunity. how long do you think it will take you to paint their building pink over night?
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 August 2018 15:59 (five years ago) link
lol sorry that was a joke referencing m bison's mispost
there is no stronghold at "Map Ref. 42°N 94°W"
― mh, Monday, 13 August 2018 16:00 (five years ago) link
well, we gotta do something with all this pink paint...
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 August 2018 16:32 (five years ago) link
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/us/unite-the-right-charlottesville-anniversary/index.htmlapparently the white supremacists only had around two dozen people show up on their side today― Trϵϵship, Monday, August 13, 2018 3:15 AM (thirteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Trϵϵship, Monday, August 13, 2018 3:15 AM (thirteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Was nice of DC Metro to give two dozen assholes their private subway ride to the protest
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 13 August 2018 16:34 (five years ago) link
maybe next time they could just seal the subway car doors and drop it off on a side track that's no longer in use
― mh, Monday, 13 August 2018 16:59 (five years ago) link
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, August 12, 2018 9:36 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ATU friend tells me they were loaded en masse to their own car w/their metro pd escort, but that the car hadn't been cleared of all others -- so basically they got a "shared" car that they shared with their police escort and whichever unlucky tourists were boarding at Vienna that morning
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 20:57 (five years ago) link
new Contrapoints, on the language and outlook of incels, is awesome and disturbing. She goes to some truly insightful places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Saturday, 18 August 2018 15:53 (five years ago) link
halfway through. this is pretty informative
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 16:10 (five years ago) link
She’s a genius.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 18 August 2018 17:51 (five years ago) link
wow yeah, that ends up ending up really interesting and powerful in drawing connections to a specific experience to reach out in a way that's empathetic. "the solution to that has to be therapeutic, not logical."
― Doctor Casϵϵno (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:01 (five years ago) link
She balances empathy and scorn so wonderfully.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
i think she does a good job analyzing what is happening with the people who visit these forums--looking for confirmations of their hopelessness/basically engaging in "digital self harm"--and she is totally right that this is a "death cult."
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link
the creepy thing to me about these people is that it's like a closed worldview with its own vocabulary that makes no sense to outsiders. we are all familiar with what sexism looks like, but these people are way more extreme--they have a completely brutal and unrelenting theory of human behavior/hierarchy
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:23 (five years ago) link
one of the problems is ascribing humanity to non-humans
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
i think they're humans. many of them probably don't *fully* believe in this stuff but are participating in order to vent or explore some unsavory parts of their own character and psychology. (not an excuse -- by posting this stuff, they're spreading evil in the world).
but you're right, there is certainly an element here that is truly antisocial and dangerous and it's hard to know what to do about it. more stigma isn't gonna work bc these people aren't looking to be accepted by the normies.
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:31 (five years ago) link
i support unplugging the internet for a period of five years in which the whole of humanity explores their consciousness in silent meditation
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:33 (five years ago) link
yes that. of course i don't believe that you "win an argument" by adopting the rhetoric of your enemy. i'm certain that fascism is a refusal to recognize humanism and that using the latter to contest the former is silly. this is not about logic and conviction.
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:35 (five years ago) link
and you know damn well Treesh that the internet isn't getting unplugged so as a proposal...come on.
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 19:36 (five years ago) link
Really liked her coinage of "dogmatic hopelessness," which better gets at what I've tried to write about these guys here (on another thread maybe): that it's linked to psychological theories of "embeddedness"-- a fear of and resistence to change, growing up, etc (perhaps also linked to being left behind by your peer group and a larger social disinclination to socialize young men). It's an ideological deliberately designed to forestall taking any form of action other than resentment and self-criticism. Plus, it's clear their feelings of rejection are largely fantasized projections. As anyone who's been rejected repeatedly can tell you: it's not that bad.
― ryan, Saturday, 18 August 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
bingo
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 21:13 (five years ago) link
They can’t react normally to anything. Even, like, deciding to take a break from the dating game—which i feel like most people do from time to time—becomes an ideological thinv rooted in resentment of women they call “mgtow”
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 21:56 (five years ago) link
So you’re right—they’re reaching for a dogma that will justify their comfortable misery
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 18 August 2018 21:58 (five years ago) link
I just don't see why these guys don't get into Cioran and Schopenhauer like I did at 20. At least I learned some stuff!
It is interesting to see many people (men, usually) make fun of their own teenage fascination with Nietzsche or whatever...they forget I think the intense terror and vulnerability you can feel when leaving one secure part of life for another, less certain one. That kind of thinking provides a sort of encouragement for living a life of risk, not fearful of pain, that we forget we need as we become comfortable adults again. These kids needs a Zarathustra, is what I'm saying.
― ryan, Saturday, 18 August 2018 22:04 (five years ago) link
First sentence - because they're not bright enough
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 22:05 (five years ago) link
I looked at the /r/Braincels forum, and the general reaction to Contrapoints's video seems to be "stop posting that video." :/ Hopefully it helps one person.
― jmm, Saturday, 18 August 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
There's a longer answer that I'm too lazy to make on a Saturday night but this is the bottom line - fascism isn't an ideology for kids that are looking for answers, it's an ideology for kids that know everything
― Noodle Vague, Saturday, 18 August 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
― No organ. (crüt), Saturday, 18 August 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
overshadowed by other news today, but more charges were handed down related to the August 2017 Charlottesville rally:
http://www.nbc29.com/story/38931219/richard-wilson-preston-court-08-21-2018
my takeaway from this is that prosecutors couldn't prove intent, so they used the "within 1000 feet of a school" law instead. I'm fine w/that, bye asshole.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 00:38 (five years ago) link
whatever happened to that guy who was on that Vice documentary with all the guns on his bed who ended up filming youtube vids where he was sibbing about the feds coming to kill him?
if i need to be more specific about which alt_right chud I'm referencing I'm afraid I can't
― Bog Dole (stevie), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 08:21 (five years ago) link
Chris Cantwell, the Crying Nazi?
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 12:49 (five years ago) link
i think there was something on twitter about moving back in with his parents
― devvvine, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 13:11 (five years ago) link
must have imagined that
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/wjk7bn/a-year-after-charlottesville-the-alt-right-is-in-shambles?utm_medium=vicenewstwitter
― devvvine, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 13:14 (five years ago) link
kinda wish this thread title was just "Crying Nazis"
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:03 (five years ago) link
Today, Cantwell lives alone, in an apartment with very dark curtains. His shelves are filled with protein powder and nutritional supplements, he has a room full of exercise equipment, and he’s taped up signs reminding him to “STOP SAYING FUCK” on the fridge and in the bathroom. His sole source of income is his racist content business, including a podcast he says has an audience of 10,000.
What a pathetic pud.
― Bog Dole (stevie), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
James Alex Fields, Jr. allegedly drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing Heather Heyer.
I'm seeing this wording a lot and it is very confusing to me. what exactly is "alleged" at this point? Heather Heyer is, in fact, dead; there is a video of a car being driven into a crowd of counter-protesters. what the fuck is the other option here? surprise, the car was actually elon musk's self-driving car he never told anybody about?
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:48 (five years ago) link
he hasn't been convicted in court
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:49 (five years ago) link
article written by legal requirement stickler. don't sweat it
― imago, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:50 (five years ago) link
I’m not sure but I think it’s just a standard when reporting on people who haven’t yet been convicted/pled not guilty - maybe a way to avoid the possibility of lawsuits just in case.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:53 (five years ago) link
lol xp sorry to join the crowd. Anyway the most recent alt-right thing in Seattle on Sunday was uneventful, kinda wish they’d have had to deal with the extremely unhealthy smoke that rolled in later.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:55 (five years ago) link
Yeah that’s standard practice (at least here in the uk), to say “allegedly” or “accused of” even when it’s recorded fact they did it As many ppl have pointed out tho a lot of places seem to be going further than this practice demands & obfuscating the nature of the crime completely with passive-voice phrases like “was killed by a car”
― jeremy cmbyn (wins), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:55 (five years ago) link
I know "alleged" is a standard when reporting, but this wording (and it's in almost everything I read about Charlottesville) seems odd to me because it's not "alleged manslaughter" or "alleged murder," i.e. verdicts, or even "allegedly purposefully drove his car into a crowd," i.e. malice; it is "alleged fact that demonstrably happened." put another way, if the allegations were false, then how exactly did a car get driven through a crowd and kill heather heyer?
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 15:59 (five years ago) link
That's to be established in court.
― Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 16:00 (five years ago) link
Better to say "Fields is accused by police of driving his car into" etc. etc. and avoid the mealy-mouthedness of "allegedly."
― Eliza D., Wednesday, 22 August 2018 18:35 (five years ago) link
even that is silly -- he was driving the car, correct? and that car was driven into the crowd, correct? so either someone jumped into his car, removed him from the wheel and did it, one of the protesters turned into the Incredible Hulk and shoved the car into the protesters at driving speed, the car glitched out in a manner that someone probably would have mentioned by now, or he drove the damn car
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 18:43 (five years ago) link
he was driving the car, correct? and that car was driven into the crowd, correct?
we know these things to be true but have they yet been proven in court?
― Bog Dole (stevie), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
think there was something on twitter about moving back in with his parents― devvvine, Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:11 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― devvvine, Wednesday, August 22, 2018 9:11 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
There was definitely something about an alt-right youtuber moving back in with his parents in the past few weeks.
― incarcerated moonfaces (how's life), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:04 (five years ago) link
and it is lawyer-ordered mealy-mouthedness, yes, out of a fear of being sued
― Bog Dole (stevie), Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:05 (five years ago) link
I am not gonna get upset that someone - even someone who is manifestly, obviously guilty - is being technically given the deference (in the press, as well as the courtroom) of being "innocent until proven guilty", which is a bedrock assumption of the rule of law.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 22 August 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
Uh oh:
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/08/23/oath-keepers-announce-national-‘spartan’-training-program-aimed-‘violent-left’
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 24 August 2018 19:05 (five years ago) link
Wtf would you allow single quotes in a URL
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 24 August 2018 19:08 (five years ago) link
training sessions around the United States aimed at helping militiamen and “Patriots” prepare for “lethal force” at far-right events in cities targeted for right-wing protests.
p sure holding anything resembling this is a felony
― Οὖτις, Friday, 24 August 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
ahahahahahaaaaaaaaa
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DleLAfXXsAA36-l?format=jpg
― my dream is to never be a champion (bizarro gazzara), Sunday, 26 August 2018 14:19 (five years ago) link
https://media.giphy.com/media/10hfegXGKVRVNm/giphy.gif
― Noodle Vague, Sunday, 26 August 2018 14:32 (five years ago) link
but where did he Facebook that from, then
― Doctor Casϵϵno (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 26 August 2018 14:43 (five years ago) link
The Front Lines, obviously.
― Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 26 August 2018 14:55 (five years ago) link
his sushi security bill would probably be way lower if he just stopped ordering the blowfish. I guess rich people don't realize that most of us don't employ an official food taster. However, he is absolutely correct that his money would be better spent on getting rid of his crabs.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 26 August 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
Fake Yankee Go Home
― Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 August 2018 15:25 (five years ago) link
I'm so rich and I've blown my fortune trying to destroy your suck-ass country, why won't you respect me?
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Sunday, 26 August 2018 15:31 (five years ago) link
oh milo, milo you got mewhinin' from the front line
― Doctor Casϵϵno (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 26 August 2018 15:31 (five years ago) link
Wait now there are TWO Crying Nazis? So hard to keep track
― Οὖτις, Sunday, 26 August 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
womp womp
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Sunday, 26 August 2018 17:03 (five years ago) link
https://giphy.com/gifs/5jYbBSHwMBJwZ06U40
― omar little, Sunday, 26 August 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link
https://media.giphy.com/media/5jYbBSHwMBJwZ06U40/giphy.gif ?
― ▫◌▫ (sic), Sunday, 26 August 2018 17:50 (five years ago) link
even the prospect of schadenfreude can't get me to read something one of these fucking bozos writes
― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Sunday, 26 August 2018 17:57 (five years ago) link
thx sic
― omar little, Sunday, 26 August 2018 18:00 (five years ago) link
meanwhile, at my fucking shitty alma mater: https://triad-city-beat.com/climate-violence-students-set-stage-clashes-unc/
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 27 August 2018 16:35 (five years ago) link
christ
― faculty w1fe (silby), Monday, 27 August 2018 16:37 (five years ago) link
I tweeted this but Chapel Hill is sure fine with keeping people from out of town away from campus/Franklin Street (not technically part of campus but) when it's people who want to celebrate Halloween, but if it's white nationalists with SS tattoos from out of town and in some cases out of the state? sure, come on onto campus
also that the police are freaking the fuck out about setting confederate flags on fire yet every year during basketball season there are large-ass bonfires and property destruction on Franklin Street but that's A-OK
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, 27 August 2018 16:40 (five years ago) link
(there are some issues involved with what's university property and what's Chapel Hill property and who has jurisdiction where, but both UNC and Chapel Hill police officers were mentioned as being there)
Potentially interesting paper on the alt-right’s use of a certain phrase:
https://www.academia.edu/37240375/The_Alt-Rights_Discourse_of_Cultural_Marxism_A_Political_Instrument_of_Intersectional_Hate
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 28 August 2018 17:21 (five years ago) link
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Monday, August 27, 2018 12:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i can't remember if this board has yet properly basked in the glory of this, the world's stupidest tweet:
Idea: Any school in America named for a Confederate be named for John McCain. And UNC, instead of putting up Silent Sam commission, a McCain statue
― evol j, Tuesday, 28 August 2018 17:24 (five years ago) link
can't think of anyone who'd have a problem with that
― the bhagwanadook (symsymsym), Tuesday, 28 August 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link
this is legitimately weird. I think i'm having a psychotic break
4chan nerds are photoshopping David Hogg to look female, calling him Daisy, and then having sexual fantasies about their Daisy Hogg memes. I feel like this is some... new, uncharted form of self-own pic.twitter.com/UkbYERuhan— Michael Edison Hayden (@MichaelEHayden) August 28, 2018
― frogbs, Tuesday, 28 August 2018 17:54 (five years ago) link
o_O
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 28 August 2018 17:54 (five years ago) link
it's a shitty transphobic joke that doesn't need amplifying
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 28 August 2018 18:19 (five years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DltzFnEWwAAV6UK.jpg
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 28 August 2018 21:38 (five years ago) link
good fucking god:
https://spectator.us/2018/09/fbi-questioned-kantbot/
― goole, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:59 (five years ago) link
?
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 20:20 (five years ago) link
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/a38eva/theres-an-international-manhunt-underway-for-3d-printed-gun-activist-cody-wilson
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:13 (five years ago) link
Oof, wish I could say I was surprised
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:33 (five years ago) link
BREAKING: Cody Wilson, the Austin man behind 3D-printed guns who has been accused of sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl, has been arrested in Taiwan, according to media outlet Taiwan News. https://t.co/Z3Opaa2E1m pic.twitter.com/Bv8eY4UNF8— Austin Statesman (@statesman) September 21, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 21 September 2018 13:40 (five years ago) link
In other news, penniless loser to address conference of Morrissey's favourite political party.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/23/katie-hopkins-speak-far-right-for-britain-islamophobe-holocaust-denier
― Zach Same (Tom D.), Monday, 24 September 2018 17:05 (five years ago) link
xp can any among us name a single guy named Cody who is not a complete oxygen thief?
― suzy, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:10 (five years ago) link
I'd say Cody from popular science YouTube channel Cody's Lab but he's constantly combusting things so
― imago, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHDHnxYjs4
― Zach Same (Tom D.), Monday, 24 September 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
IdkThere is a fuckhead named Cody currently sucking the life out of a dozen of my friends via nuisance lawsuits Delete em all imo
― cheese is the teacher, ham is the preacher (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 13:29 (five years ago) link
https://www.fightersgeneration.com/characters/codyportrait.jpg
― milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 13:54 (five years ago) link
something like 8 out of the top 100 world ranked bullriders are named cody
the only cody i can think of who seems alright is the earwolf engineer but i don't know ihm maybe he's got some dark secrets
― vote no on ilxit (Will M.), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 13:57 (five years ago) link
When was Anne-Marie Waters banned from Twitter?
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:00 (five years ago) link
for the pro wrestling nerds out there
https://i0.wp.com/rohworld.com/images/cody-rhodes-middle-finger-2017.jpg?zoom=2&resize=748%2C421
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:36 (five years ago) link
all in
― maura, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 18:34 (five years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/federal-officials-to-announce-additional-charges-in-2017-unite-the-right-rally-in-charlottesville/2018/10/02/60881262-c651-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html?utm_term=.d50a249253b4
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 2 October 2018 20:27 (five years ago) link
that's sort of encouraging?
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Tuesday, 2 October 2018 23:07 (five years ago) link
ha, didn't notice that one of the guys arrested was the dude who was fired from Top Dog in Berkeley earlier in the yearhttps://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Berkeley-hot-dog-cook-fired-after-Charlottesville-13275976.php
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 00:03 (five years ago) link
Alt right in the wild : smartly dressed young hipster (skinny jeans, pointy Italian shoes, blue on white paisley-ish button-up shirt) reading a hardcover of Dinesh D’Souza The Big Lie on the E train from Queens into Manhattan this morning
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 14:02 (five years ago) link
gross
― shrek and han solo kinda dress the same (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 14:14 (five years ago) link
I only noticed the book because the title is in big third reich letters
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 14:15 (five years ago) link
If only the fact that he titled his own book The Big Lie were a sign of self-awareness.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 14:44 (five years ago) link
Didn’t d’souza found a college in midtown?
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 3 October 2018 14:46 (five years ago) link
ooh good point
dude got off at a station that would support that
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 15:02 (five years ago) link
I'd say Cody from popular science YouTube channel Cody's Lab but he's constantly combusting things so― imago, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:12 (one week ago) Permalink
― imago, Monday, 24 September 2018 17:12 (one week ago) Permalink
Cody's Lab rules!
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 15:20 (five years ago) link
Breaking news: https://www.thedailybeast.com/qanoners-cheer-trumps-text-alert-test-see-it-as-a-step-towards-martial-law
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 3 October 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
It's not all bad news ...
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/12/drag-queen-punching-nazi-breaks-hand-face/
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/08/milo-yiannopolis-epic-meltdown-facebook-tears-delicious/
― Zach Same (Tom D.), Saturday, 13 October 2018 09:25 (five years ago) link
more like white supremi-sissy-ist, amirite?
― calzino, Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:27 (five years ago) link
Milo now looks like an unflattering Ben Garrison cartoon of a 'triggered SJW', not sure this will play well with, um, anyone.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:35 (five years ago) link
Mind you, rapist judge Kavanaugh seems to have shown that you can have an incoherent bawling tantrum in public and still have the support of the army of twats, so maybe it doesn't matter now.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:39 (five years ago) link
Howard Jacobson did a comprehensive denouncement of Kavanaugh/Trump etc on R4 last night, and then finished the broadcast by saying woman should be banned from using the word "patriarchy" because it makes them sound like students!
― calzino, Saturday, 13 October 2018 10:45 (five years ago) link
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 13 October 2018
Main differences for me, are
1) Kavanaugh doing it on the way up, not down. Anything is excused if it deployed in the service of winning2) Kavanaugh doing it on someone elses media, not his own social media page.3) Kavanaugh mixing it up with anger, and at 'them'. Just enough of "whos the real victim here anyway?" before switching the play back onto attack. Supporters recognize game
― anvil, Saturday, 13 October 2018 11:10 (five years ago) link
Don't get caught being yesterdays man
― anvil, Saturday, 13 October 2018 11:11 (five years ago) link
Having sad tantrums is totally on brand for the alt-right
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 13 October 2018 14:38 (five years ago) link
Gavin McInnes gave a talk last night in Manhattan and then some Proud Boys beat up some people, made video, and took group photos.http://gothamist.com/2018/10/13/proud_boys_beating_video.php
― ian, Saturday, 13 October 2018 16:53 (five years ago) link
Multiple disturbing videos taken at the scene appear to show dozens of Proud Boys swarming two people on the ground, shouting "you're dead, motherfucker" and "faggot" as they take turns attacking them. Three people were arrested following the event, according to police, though a public defender with the Legal Aid Society says she's confirmed that the arrests were of anti-racist protesters.
Nice
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 13 October 2018 17:17 (five years ago) link
The dude with the sword? That’s Gavin McInnes, founder of the far-right fascist gang the Proud Boys. The vandalism? No evidence that it’s “antifa.” The violence? Videos from last night show abt 20 Proud Boys beating 3 people while they’re on the ground. This is so infuriating https://t.co/AaIM5gpmqL— Christopher Mathias (@letsgomathias) October 13, 2018
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 13 October 2018 17:31 (five years ago) link
That was in response to a fox news story claiming this was an incident of “antifa” violence
― Trϵϵship, Saturday, 13 October 2018 17:32 (five years ago) link
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45851665
― piscesx, Saturday, 13 October 2018 23:17 (five years ago) link
gavin m makes me wish that fentanyl cut heroin was more of a thing in the 90s and 00s
― maura, Monday, 15 October 2018 16:31 (five years ago) link
(i was on a panel with him once and all he talked about was his smack shooting past. how glamorous. he’s a fucking idiot.)
― maura, Monday, 15 October 2018 16:32 (five years ago) link
Vice Magazine was the trojan horse for so much of this back in the day, it's pretty disgusting to go back and think about early issues which were scattered for free strategically around hipster hoods in L.A. (and i'm sure even moreso in NYC and the like.)
― omar little, Monday, 15 October 2018 16:35 (five years ago) link
oh yeah they were all over new york
― maura, Monday, 15 October 2018 16:36 (five years ago) link
the only "antifa violence" I can seem to find anything about in the incident is someone pulling a MAGA hat off a guy's head.
Proud Boys seems like a vehicle for basement-dwelling softies to run with a few actual skinhead gang members and feel tough as they get their one kick in on a defenseless guy getting jumped by 20 people.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 15 October 2018 17:07 (five years ago) link
I used to work for a publisher that put out two issues of the Vice "Dos and Don'ts" photos, which often amounted to photographic sexual assault of unconsenting young women in various compromising positions. So I'm glad Vice "grew up" or whatever but spare me.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Monday, 15 October 2018 18:24 (five years ago) link
everyone i ever met that regularly read Vice was either an idiot or an asshole. and yes those early issues were all over Manhattan in the early 00s.
― flappy bird, Monday, 15 October 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link
I definitely know a few former "Vice hipster" types who have gone alt right.
A strange memory that just came back to me: in the late 90s when I became acquainted with that crew of people in college and didn't really know anything whatsoever about that scene/milieux, I remember observing that there was this set of them who were huge record nerds but listened to almost no black music whatsoever, as far as I could tell, and I just found that really odd, like how could you be a music nerd and have so little interest in black music. At the time I just kind of dismissed the thought, but now it makes sense to me.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 15 October 2018 18:32 (five years ago) link
Cernovich is going back to jail lol
― frogbs, Monday, 15 October 2018 20:34 (five years ago) link
9 members to be charged (it seems)
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/411508-nypd-pursuing-charges-against-9-more-individuals-in-right-wing-proud
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 October 2018 21:44 (five years ago) link
lol, what a turd
Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes goes on Newsmax TV to distance himself from members of his group who attacked protestors Saturday night in NYC. He says he doesn't "control these guys," and "I'm the founder, not the leader." https://t.co/8PWoRqwUfA— Nick Martin (@nickmartin) October 15, 2018
― maura, Monday, 15 October 2018 23:41 (five years ago) link
god what an utter piece of shit he is, was, and forever will be
― maura, Monday, 15 October 2018 23:42 (five years ago) link
Cernovich is going back to jail lolWait is this real, I hope?
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, 16 October 2018 02:50 (five years ago) link
this falling down look is obv intentional right
https://res.cloudinary.com/jpress/image/fetch/w_1200,h_630,c_fill,f_auto,q_auto:eco,g_face/l_i-red-square_chw4fj,w_100,h_100,g_south_east/https://inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Falling-Down-3.jpg
― gbx, Tuesday, 16 October 2018 04:27 (five years ago) link
Please share this video. People need to understand how dangerous Gavin McInnes and his gang the Proud Boys are.Notify his employers @CRTV and @FoxNews. Maybe we can prevent him from getting someone else killed. pic.twitter.com/zp0VBrmciR— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) October 17, 2018
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 20 October 2018 19:58 (five years ago) link
connecting some important dots IMO
https://medium.com/s/story/why-are-the-proud-boys-so-obsessed-with-masturbation-c9932364ebe2
― portugal. the bland (sleeve), Tuesday, 23 October 2018 19:56 (five years ago) link
In the same way that Jews are bonded by a shared rejection of shellfish and pork
stopped reading here
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:07 (five years ago) link
that’s an uh interesting perspective on judaism alright
― i’ll hufflepuff i’ll blow you away (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
comparing Jews to a white supremacist organization, what could go wrong
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:17 (five years ago) link
also implying that kashrut is a method of social control rather than a survival mechanism for avoiding trichinosis in a tribal desert environment is just stupid
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:19 (five years ago) link
thank you, missed that :(
― portugal. the bland (sleeve), Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:22 (five years ago) link
tbf I had no idea about this #nowanks thing so I guess I learned something else I didn't know about these hateful idiots at least
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:24 (five years ago) link
This essay is not so bad.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
I agree with her overall analysis. And prohibitions definitely seeve a group bonding function for all sorts of groups—it’s not necessarily a bad thing.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:41 (five years ago) link
def makes me think if Wilhelm Reich's theories/writing, suppression of sexuality in the service of fascism
― portugal. the bland (sleeve), Tuesday, 23 October 2018 20:42 (five years ago) link
if of
iirc the writer is jewish
― maura, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:22 (five years ago) link
still stupid
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
well there's as much proof for it as the trichinosis thing i.e. none
― Number None, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:43 (five years ago) link
idk it makes more sense than Jews being a bunch of people who just happened to not like pork and shellfish
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:50 (five years ago) link
you're being facetious
Do we know why those laws came into practice? No. Do they as function as a set of behaviours that sets Jews apart as a distinct group? Absolutely
― Number None, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:54 (five years ago) link
Not sure she claimed that. Seemed more like dietary restrictions were one kind of social practice that helped bind the Jewish community through the years. Not the only one.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 23 October 2018 22:55 (five years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/23/white-supremacist-richard-spencer-physical-abuse-divorce-filings
― Alma Kirby (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 16:38 (five years ago) link
FBI bagged another onehttps://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FBI-Arrests-White-Nationalist-Who-Fled-the-Country-13332908.php
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 24 October 2018 20:53 (five years ago) link
A worthwhile Twitter thread from David Neiwert.
1) For some reason, folks on the right have extremely short memories when it comes to acts of right-wing political violence. This is especially the case when they are in the middle of a propaganda campaign to make "the left" look violent. A long thread with lots of pix follows. pic.twitter.com/D6MtFP4k65— David Neiwert (@DavidNeiwert) October 15, 2018
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 21:10 (five years ago) link
xp great, he'll go back to prison and grow his personal brand
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 21:15 (five years ago) link
An embarrassing day for those on the right claiming the Left is violent.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
if they were capable of admitting to embarrassment, sure
― i’ll hufflepuff i’ll blow you away (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 22:19 (five years ago) link
billionaire financial speculators, former US presidents, and cable news organizations - all of whom are complicit in if not directly responsible for multiple imperial genocides - are now "figures on the left" pic.twitter.com/7ViigkygJp— BrundlePsyPal (@YouSeemFine) October 24, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 24 October 2018 22:30 (five years ago) link
woah was convinced that tweet was gonna be shared by Simon H or Morbs
― Defund Phil Collins (stevie), Thursday, 25 October 2018 09:18 (five years ago) link
this is good: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/25/tommy-robinson-and-the-far-rights-new-playbook
― Neil S, Thursday, 25 October 2018 09:20 (five years ago) link
https://communemag.com/alt-right-new-york/
During my three months inside New York’s alt-right, The Daily Stormer Book Club never got around to reading any books. Instead, they plotted their move off the internet and onto the streets, drank beer, and shot the shit. Through the Book Club I entered a network of far-right activists integrating the old guard of white nationalism with millennial internet trolls while drawing new recruits from the websites and podcasts of online youth culture. Much of their shadowy organizing happens openly in New York City bars, sometimes within earshot of the normies.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 26 October 2018 19:49 (five years ago) link
When "the Left" comes to mean "anybody who isn't a violent sociopathic bigot" this shit is easy and negligible
― the Warnock of Clodhop Mountain (Noodle Vague), Friday, 26 October 2018 20:53 (five years ago) link
aw, poor babies
https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/27/18032930/paypal-banned-gab-following-pittsburgh-shooting
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 28 October 2018 13:41 (five years ago) link
stevie, restrain your fingerwagging bullshit
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 28 October 2018 13:54 (five years ago) link
physician heal thyself
― Defund Phil Collins (stevie), Sunday, 28 October 2018 17:59 (five years ago) link
The Portland paper controlled by Orange County conservative types ran this lovely op-ed today by a Scaife/Devos-funded rightwing thinktank alum:
We will be announcing actions and responses to the recent decisions by @Oregonian shortly. Freedom of the press is something we should all cherish but that does not mean their speech should be free of criticism. Stay tuned. pic.twitter.com/eGqbseWVEe— PDX Resistance ✊ (@Pdx_resistance) October 29, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 29 October 2018 06:06 (five years ago) link
am interested in hearing what their actions and responses might entail - there's a lot of knee-jerk "but freedom of the press" response to any criticism of anything that passes (as the oregonian unfortunately does) for "mainstream media".
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Monday, 29 October 2018 12:17 (five years ago) link
shouting 'not fascist' in a crowded fascism
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 29 October 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
Oregonian Editorial page Editor Laura Gunderson admitted fault today in choosing the headline to Sunday's column—and also over its timing. (It was printed the morning after an anti-Semitic gunman killed 11 people in a Pittsburgh synagogue.)"It would have benefited, in hindsight, with more context from Gibson's Portland protests," she wrote in a statement to local media. "We wrote the headline, not Hovde, and it missed the mark. We also regret the timing of the column, which was edited on the Friday before the shootings in Pittsburgh."
"It would have benefited, in hindsight, with more context from Gibson's Portland protests," she wrote in a statement to local media. "We wrote the headline, not Hovde, and it missed the mark. We also regret the timing of the column, which was edited on the Friday before the shootings in Pittsburgh."
https://www.wweek.com/news/city/2018/10/29/portland-activists-call-for-a-boycott-of-the-oregonians-local-advertisers-after-opinion-column-hails-joey-gibson/
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 29 October 2018 23:34 (five years ago) link
lol what the hell
today I learned that alt-right pizzagater Jack Posobiec wrote Game of Thrones fan fiction about Donald Trump and a teen aged Sansa Stark falling in love pic.twitter.com/PqtD8977BV— Brandt (@UrbanAchievr) November 15, 2018
― the Stanley Kubrick of testicular torsion (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 15 November 2018 16:55 (five years ago) link
god they’re all such fucking gross dorks
― maura, Thursday, 15 November 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link
haha otm
there's this dichotomy of them believing they are the last stand of normal regular americans and also being insane weirdos
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2018 18:38 (five years ago) link
No talk of Deeyah Khan's White Right: Meeting The Enemy? I saw it a few months ago and it's good. If I recall correctly it's 6 Nazis and 2 former Nazis interviewed. A lot of them look visibly uncomfortable and a couple definitely soften (but they're still extremists for sure) but Richard Spencer acts like a cartoon villain throughout (but he was never interviewed alone, always with his guys).
It's on Netflix along with her earlier film, Jihad.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 16 November 2018 18:35 (five years ago) link
I think their desire to identify as protectors of normal America very much flows from their insecurities and weirdnesses.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 16 November 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
philly fash gathering tomorrow
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:54 (five years ago) link
gritty is going to dine on flesh tomorrow
― Mordy, Friday, 16 November 2018 20:57 (five years ago) link
I hope the city pelted Santa with batteries has a commensurate response in store for fucking nazis
― joygoat, Friday, 16 November 2018 22:46 (five years ago) link
very little about today's world gives me more pleasure than gritty instantly becoming the face of the left
― gbx, Friday, 16 November 2018 22:53 (five years ago) link
my pal who spends his time keeping up with the right says we shouldn't expect much showing tomorrow, another UTR 2-style wild outnumbering
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 16 November 2018 23:04 (five years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/radixmedia/photos/a.950183278327026/2572683009410370/?type=3&theater
― dan selzer, Saturday, 17 November 2018 00:40 (five years ago) link
the cherry on top of this excellent news day:https://splinternews.com/proud-boys-failed-to-redact-their-new-dumb-bylaws-and-a-1830700905
― sleeve, Thursday, 29 November 2018 00:55 (five years ago) link
"Heath Hair"??
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Thursday, 29 November 2018 10:07 (five years ago) link
the publishing event of the century
Vox Day (Theodore Beale) is so mad that Jordan Peterson outshone him that he wrote a whole book about it.Milo, who is also mad he's irrelevant now, wrote the foreword. pic.twitter.com/UutWcQ89uH— Jared Holt (@jaredlholt) November 29, 2018
― The Fox in the Fedora (Neil S), Thursday, 29 November 2018 15:15 (five years ago) link
He lies ... described me as "an amazing person"
― Colonel Poo, Thursday, 29 November 2018 15:23 (five years ago) link
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 29 November 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link
my high school best friend/freshman college roommate was and probably is a huge vox day fan and my god that depresses me
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 November 2018 17:06 (five years ago) link
ha I also had a college radio friendquaintance who discovered vox day in like senior year and became* completely awful and insufferable
*became is inaccurate, he was always a shithead
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 29 November 2018 17:17 (five years ago) link
my old EiC used to play Doom w/Vox Day when he was just some random nerd from MN, he mentioned it to me years ago when he was just a sorta typical video game gadfly dick type, i will try to get more info next time i run into him
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 29 November 2018 18:14 (five years ago) link
laura loomer handcuffed herself to the front door of the Twitter officesno fucking way pic.twitter.com/nYLe8L3zg1— Jared Holt (@jaredlholt) November 29, 2018
how are she and Baked Alaska not a couple yet
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 20:51 (five years ago) link
why is she wearing a Nazi Star of David
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
because she got banned from twitter i assume and she's somehow, as a jewish person, making that analogy
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:04 (five years ago) link
like laura loomer roughly three times a day, twitter is publicly owned https://t.co/HmodtQ9biU— Yuletide Honey-Glazed Sam (@samthielman) November 29, 2018
― The Greta Van Gerwig (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
she thought it was a Sheriff's star
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:10 (five years ago) link
you can watch it live lmao lmao
https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BdGYOmrVNQxX
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:11 (five years ago) link
ok I legit think she expected to get escorted away sooner, she had like 5 minutes of material now she's just standing there and complaining about how cold it is
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:42 (five years ago) link
Should have chained herself to both doors.
― The Greta Van Gerwig (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:47 (five years ago) link
is she still there? maybe I can go down there and heckle her
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:53 (five years ago) link
― The Greta Van Gerwig (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:47 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
she said she didn't because its a fire hazard
this is also precisely why she's not been carted away yet
what a genius
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 November 2018 21:55 (five years ago) link
did she throw away the key or what
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:07 (five years ago) link
lol police inform Laura Loomer that Twitter isn't pressing charges and she can stay chained to their door as long as she wants— Joe Perticone (@JoePerticone) November 29, 2018
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
hahaa
― Spottie, Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:26 (five years ago) link
ahahahahahahaaaaaaa
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
fucking pwned
will stop by on my way home from work
what should I shout at her
not exactly shocked to hear that twitters door is always open to nazis
― Pierrot with a thousand farces (wins), Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:41 (five years ago) link
(this is in nyc)
― mookieproof, Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:41 (five years ago) link
oh dang, thought this was at the SF HQ
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:43 (five years ago) link
You'll have to shout pretty loudly then.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:53 (five years ago) link
― dude the new bond girl’s gonna be named ‘firehose o’piss’ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 29 November 2018 22:59 (five years ago) link
https://forward.com/fast-forward/382452/laura-loomer-is-dating-neo-nazi-who-once-trolled-her-with-gas-chamber-meme/
― dude the new bond girl’s gonna be named ‘firehose o’piss’ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:00 (five years ago) link
that link indicates they actually were not a couple
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:01 (five years ago) link
but they IM'd each other etc so idk
fuck, love is a lie
― dude the new bond girl’s gonna be named ‘firehose o’piss’ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:02 (five years ago) link
imagine being this woman's parents.
"hey, nice to see you guys. what's your daughter laura been up to?"
"uh...."
of course, there's a not-insignificant chance her parents are loons as well.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:02 (five years ago) link
zp
morrissey warnd u remember
― F# A# (∞), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:03 (five years ago) link
loomer eclipsed
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:03 (five years ago) link
i just had the thought "hit that long loomer note and let it float" and now i'm listening to beefheart so thanks.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:16 (five years ago) link
who the fuck is scraeming "LOG OFF" at my house. show yourself, coward. i will never log off— wint (@dril) September 16, 2012
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:16 (five years ago) link
Incredible response
― flappy bird, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:16 (five years ago) link
when the trolls have my internet access removed i will not allow that to end the content flow. i will nail my insipid "Tweets" to my car— wint (@dril) July 14, 2014
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:20 (five years ago) link
Laura Loomer ended her Twitter protest, got cut out of the handcuffs. But she did not get her Twitter account back. pic.twitter.com/VNKO1uIxJK— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 29, 2018
― flappy bird, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:20 (five years ago) link
this woman is only 25 years old, holy christ
― frogbs, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:35 (five years ago) link
alex jones syndrome
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:40 (five years ago) link
she's 47 in infowars years
― sleeve, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:40 (five years ago) link
by the same metric alex jones himself is 83 years old fwiw
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:42 (five years ago) link
― frogbs, Thursday, November 29, 2018 11:35 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i legitimately feel like we're in a unique era of people feeling capable of and entitled to the broadcast of their bad early 20s politics and the idiot friends that help create them, like, the flipside of 25 year old laura loomer is the (feels like) thousands of 19 year olds with hammer & sickles in their twitter dns whose bios are like "ariana stan. ML. stalin did nothing wrong."
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:47 (five years ago) link
there's a lot of em, they worry me
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Thursday, 29 November 2018 23:59 (five years ago) link
there's a lot of those kids, they worry me a little
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Friday, 30 November 2018 00:00 (five years ago) link
On Twitter, so probably not that many.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Friday, 30 November 2018 00:06 (five years ago) link
Hoos very otm
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 30 November 2018 00:52 (five years ago) link
And like, there's a robust Venn overlap of Stalinist teens (who maybe once were 4chan style trolling by occupying the most caricatured version of their actual politics but like the chans have transitioned to just actually appearing to celebrate a politics of revenge gulags) and people who just slapped a political decal onto their alienation and simmering sociopathy
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 30 November 2018 01:10 (five years ago) link
I just remembered the time Laura Loomer interrupted a congressional hearing and one of the *congressmen* started doing an auction call to drown her out. pic.twitter.com/42wTWhnw6q— Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) November 29, 2018
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 30 November 2018 07:48 (five years ago) link
That time Vox Day tried to convince people he wasn't obsessed with John Scalzi was hilarious. Also the time he tried to flood goodreads with negative reviews of writers he didn't like politically and goodreads caught on quickly.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 30 November 2018 21:46 (five years ago) link
Lmao a ton of Milo Yiannopoulos docs dropped as part of his Australian lawsuit and honey, this grift is on its last legs pic.twitter.com/lBjYzNGCnE— K. Thor Jensen (@kthorjensen) December 2, 2018
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Sunday, 2 December 2018 15:45 (five years ago) link
Who’d agree to joint and several liability to a law firm with their own company?! Better to not hire a lawyer.
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Sunday, 2 December 2018 16:11 (five years ago) link
so good....
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/dec/03/milo-yiannopoulos-more-than-2m-in-debt-australian-promoters-documents-show?fbclid=IwAR3yBrZaLuvUKu4T4B18yAZtp7jTlPSsG3LoSVb4TSkD60dXZ-_8v8TEiL8
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 December 2018 18:41 (five years ago) link
I'd wondered why he wasn't all in on the youtube game, but apparently he is. He's not posting anywhere near Paul Jospeh Watso numbers but he's not totally dead in the water
― anvil, Monday, 3 December 2018 19:36 (five years ago) link
i legitimately feel like we're in a unique era of people feeling capable of and entitled to the broadcast of their bad early 20s politics and the idiot friends that help create them
idk being a "young conservative" really does seem like a lucrative grift - even someone as braindead as Charlie Kirk can carve out a decent living doing it. which makes the Loomers of the world that much more pathetic.
― frogbs, Monday, 3 December 2018 19:40 (five years ago) link
never seen a leftist feel entitled to the fundamental right to a platform sorry
― dyl, Monday, 3 December 2018 20:27 (five years ago) link
i legitimately can't tell if you're kidding or not
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 3 December 2018 22:03 (five years ago) link
idk why i am 2 legit to quit now
Imagine being owned by the flat earth society pic.twitter.com/eMtLAUu3Zm— David Sherratt (@discordspies) December 3, 2018
― resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 3 December 2018 22:07 (five years ago) link
LOL
any movement that doesn't react Ian Miles Wrong with anything other than derision and bronx cheers is worthless imo
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 13:13 (five years ago) link
what motivates someone to get up in the morning, log on, get mercilessly owned from all corners of the internet for like 10-12 hours, then go to bed, get up and do it all over again in perpetuity
truly the human mind is a fathomless mystery
― We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 13:18 (five years ago) link
If you have any better suggestions for how to spend my day, I'm all ears.
― all lite up and very romatic (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 4 December 2018 13:30 (five years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 4 December 2018 17:02 (five years ago) link
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/gy7wyw/thotaudit-databases-of-sex-workers-and-reporting-them-to-paypal
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 01:16 (five years ago) link
jesus that's awful
― sleeve, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 03:27 (five years ago) link
v ominous
― ogmor, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 09:09 (five years ago) link
It is fucking awful. I’m struggling to see why sex work is left wing and what do these nutter get out of it. Is this some more pr@ud b@ys mar nonsense?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:12 (five years ago) link
I don't think they're targeting sex work because it's supposedly 'left wing'. It bespeaks envy more than anything: they're not rich enough to be the alpha playboys they believe their God-Emperor Trump to be, nor can they stand seeing sexually active young women get paid for doing 'nothing'. It's 'easy money', right? Totally the easiest thing in the world, not even a 'real' job… Anyway, it's all part of the MRA continuum.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:25 (five years ago) link
(Disclaimer: I haven't read the article yet.)
They're misogynists, they're attacking women. It's not rocket science.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:35 (five years ago) link
It's not that sex work is left-wing (it's libertarian, in my opinion) more that sex workers should not be punished or placed in a legal situation where their health or safety is at the mercy of johns, pimps or traffickers.
― suzy, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 11:50 (five years ago) link
emil.y otm
― crüt, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 12:43 (five years ago) link
Yeah nowt to do with being left wing, it's just the usual r00sh v/Incel shit. You're 'whoring yourself' and you 'ruin every platform with your tits hanging out', that sort of thing. Particularly lousy that this Tumblr shit should happen a few days later, basically a big-tech version of the same thing more or less.
― piscesx, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 14:09 (five years ago) link
A pal with a thread
https://www.twitter.com/GoddessNixon/status/1066492573987061760
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 15:40 (five years ago) link
Hey there, thanks for the tweet. Quick update for you— Milo Yiannopoulos was removed from Patreon as we don't allow association with or supporting hate groups on Patreon. For more info, please see our Community Guidelines. https://t.co/L7737I1ENi— Patreon (@Patreon) December 5, 2018
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 5 December 2018 22:59 (five years ago) link
Oh poor Milo... That's cheered me up no end.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 23:01 (five years ago) link
how will he pay off his colossal debts now :(
― We're in 2009—it's time to take risks, (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 23:08 (five years ago) link
could totally see like Thiel or one of those dark web dorks saving a hoe, but maybe his 'brand' is too poisoned at this point even for those lunatics
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 23:21 (five years ago) link
Hey, he got a couple of years living the high life having money chucked at him by right-wing millionaires; its more than he's worth.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 5 December 2018 23:26 (five years ago) link
SO LONG, FUCKERhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/jury-set-to-begin-deliberations-in-james-a-fields-jr-car-ramming-trial/2018/12/06/65d38748-f9b3-11e8-8c9a-860ce2a8148f_story.html?utm_term=.e5da44341585
― Οὖτις, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:21 (five years ago) link
RIP
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 December 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
― maura, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
― sleeve, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
Nice.
― pomenitul, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:33 (five years ago) link
aside from being a murderer that motherfucker hit my friend's kid with that car (thankfully the kid was basically OK), it takes a lot for me to wish retributive justice on someone but here we are.
― sleeve, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:33 (five years ago) link
he hit 35 fucking people!
― Οὖτις, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:35 (five years ago) link
jeez I did not know it was that high, insane
― sleeve, Friday, 7 December 2018 22:37 (five years ago) link
Hope you don't mind this tweet thread, a fascinating and hilarious look at the fears and fantasies of presumably right wing (?) men of the past. Make sure you read the features on the covers.
Many readers have asked me "why do so many pulp covers feature women in ripped red blouses standing in swamps while a man fights off an unusual animal attack?"The answer is artist Will Hulsey... pic.twitter.com/2xY60yqiDD— Pulp Librarian (@PulpLibrarian) November 10, 2018
I often wonder about how much self-awareness far right wing people have about their sexual fantasies. It's very easy to see fetishes that disturb you and make your mind up too quickly as to why they occur or what type of person has these fantasies and probably get it wrong (some fixations that look very similar can be actually very different and some fixations may be unique to a persons own mental associations that nobody else might make sense of); but sometimes the parallels between general right wing fixations and their fantasies are just so strong it's difficult not to come to certain conclusions.
I always thought people with extremely racist sexual fantasies wouldn't have any awareness of why they have them but I recently read a dominatrix saying that some men specifically asked them to roleplay the end of the white race.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 8 December 2018 16:33 (five years ago) link
I read a whole book about this stuff a couple of years ago and wrote about it.
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 8 December 2018 17:04 (five years ago) link
Where Zappa got the album title "Weasels Ripped My Flesh" from, of course.
― Monica Kindle (Tom D.), Saturday, 8 December 2018 18:31 (five years ago) link
These covers are a goldmine of album titles.
― jmm, Saturday, 8 December 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
These QAnon/Pizzagate folks seem like a reasonable group of people. pic.twitter.com/tVmXEsdrbK— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) December 9, 2018
― resident hack (Simon H.), Sunday, 9 December 2018 19:43 (five years ago) link
They all watch Taken twice a week
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 9 December 2018 19:55 (five years ago) link
That r0b0t interi0rs chick seems like a lot
New to #Qanon + waking up? Welcome! It’s tough but it gets better. This is a copy of an email I sent last night. This tells you, in a nutshell (not even, it’s like a sliver of the nutshell) what’s been going on and what’s about to happen and what we need from you. #WWG1WGA ✌🏻✌🏽✌🏿 pic.twitter.com/u4W267dHXk— Robot Interiors (@RobotInteriors) October 7, 2018
― maura, Sunday, 9 December 2018 21:15 (five years ago) link
The media image of your average Anon/MAGA/Q person is a frumpy loser with no mates, whose existence is trolling in form and function. But all the ones I've met are sexy, sexy people — and smart too. I suspect good in bed as well, but I haven't conducted any research on that. Yet.— Martin Geddes (@martingeddes) December 9, 2018
Uh
― maura, Sunday, 9 December 2018 21:17 (five years ago) link
jfc
― gbx, Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
They seem great.
― resident hack (Simon H.), Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:22 (five years ago) link
That "Yet." really reads like a threat
― The Poppy Bush AutoZone (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
How can Trump dismantle the DEEP STATE© when he can't even collapse an umbrella?
― The Greta Van Gerwig (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
Wasn't "Humanistic Technophilosopher" a Voivod album?
― I Accept the Word of Santa (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 9 December 2018 22:42 (five years ago) link
it was a rank in the subterranean matrix army, crucial to the story, never used in the movie but set out in one of the appendices
― puppy bash (darraghmac), Sunday, 9 December 2018 23:27 (five years ago) link
gotta say the most irritating phrase these conspiracy idiots constantly use is "Look it up".
― frogbs, Sunday, 9 December 2018 23:42 (five years ago) link
James Fields Jr. gets life
James A. Fields Jr., the avowed neo-Nazi who rammed his car into a group of counterprotesters at a white-supremacists rally, was sentenced to life in prison by a jury Tuesday after a trial that offered an unsparing view of the physical and emotional ruin he caused in this city with a burst of vehicular rage 16 month ago.As he had throughout his two-week trial, Fields, 21, sat impassively at the defendant’s table, clad in a powder blue sweater, as the jury delivered its punishment at 12:20 p.m. after about four hours of deliberations that began Monday: life for first-degree murder; 70 years for each of five counts of aggravated malicious wounding; 20 years for each of three counts of malicious wounding; and nine years for leaving the scene of a fatal crash.His overall sentence: life plus 419 years and $480,000 in fines.
As he had throughout his two-week trial, Fields, 21, sat impassively at the defendant’s table, clad in a powder blue sweater, as the jury delivered its punishment at 12:20 p.m. after about four hours of deliberations that began Monday: life for first-degree murder; 70 years for each of five counts of aggravated malicious wounding; 20 years for each of three counts of malicious wounding; and nine years for leaving the scene of a fatal crash.
His overall sentence: life plus 419 years and $480,000 in fines.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:52 (five years ago) link
Good.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:53 (five years ago) link
justice
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:54 (five years ago) link
May he live a long life
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 11 December 2018 17:58 (five years ago) link
not long enough tho to see civilization collapse, the prisons liberated, and his reunion with the white supremacist raiders collective
― Mordy, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 18:06 (five years ago) link
got real close to some revenge gulag posting just now phew
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 11 December 2018 21:22 (five years ago) link
daydreaming of remorse is the most fruitless daydream, sadly
― I Accept the Word of Santa (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 11 December 2018 22:23 (five years ago) link
― I Accept the Word of Santa (Noodle Vague)
daydreaming of justice is just as futile
― dub pilates (rushomancy), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 03:25 (five years ago) link
i learned two things today: mish way, singer of white lung, is the exec editor of penthouse, which has now gone "alt-lite".
― goole, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 21:48 (five years ago) link
Barf,singer in shit Vancouver band and alt lite too,what a nightmare of a person
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 12 December 2018 21:52 (five years ago) link
ha i kind of liked that band for a minute, stopped following her twitter for one too many dim centrist takes. i had no idea of all this until like 10 mins ago
― goole, Wednesday, 12 December 2018 22:02 (five years ago) link
i can never remember the actual last name of that joey guy from patriot prayer and always think of him in my mind as "joey stiles". who i think was the announcer for ECW in the '90s?
― errang (rushomancy), Sunday, 16 December 2018 21:09 (five years ago) link
Gibson
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 17 December 2018 00:49 (five years ago) link
The heel turn was always right there in their name!
― louise ck (milo z), Monday, 17 December 2018 04:15 (five years ago) link
There was an entirely too short podcast ep of The Daily about why the US govt stopped monitoring/investigating right-wing domestic terrorism and white supremacist groups.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/13/podcasts/the-daily/far-right-extremism-united-states.html
My question is, couldn't they have just asked the SPLC?
https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Monday, 17 December 2018 15:47 (five years ago) link
vg thread on alt right and adjacent scum during the past year
1/ Off the top of my head?Five things, really, but I may come back and add more, lol.The media ecosystem is big enough that we've seen *some* coverage of these issues, but not nearly enough. https://t.co/Tm5K6tfABY— AntiFash Gordon (@AntiFashGordon) December 17, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 17 December 2018 23:58 (five years ago) link
this thread is ~amazing`
New, up-and-coming CNN anchor, who seeks to bring a witty side to entertainment news pic.twitter.com/bYChnj7PyO— Herbalis (@_Herbalis_) December 18, 2018
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 15:48 (five years ago) link
Last one is the best lol
He has kind of a corey haim thing goin tbh
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 15:58 (five years ago) link
wow that is a work of art twitter thread
― No Smockin' (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 16:19 (five years ago) link
lolz all around, ty for sharing
the "Polish center forward" reply is amazing too
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 16:33 (five years ago) link
Oregon neo-Nazi Jimmy Marr hospitalized after street fight
Oregon neo-Nazi Jimmy Marr, well known to locals for driving around in a truck painted with swastikas and various white supremacist slogans, was hospitalized Monday following what police described as a “large fight involving multiple people.”The Corvallis, Oregon, Police Department said in a statement Tuesday afternoon that Marr was taken to the hospital “suffering from a medical event” but that it was “not yet known if the medical event was directly related to the fight.”Police released few other details, saying that the incident was still under investigation.
The Corvallis, Oregon, Police Department said in a statement Tuesday afternoon that Marr was taken to the hospital “suffering from a medical event” but that it was “not yet known if the medical event was directly related to the fight.”
Police released few other details, saying that the incident was still under investigation.
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 01:19 (five years ago) link
he lives in my town, just the worst scumbag imaginable, here's how to support if you want:
https://fundrazr.com/71REHc
― sleeve, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 01:56 (five years ago) link
Well, I support his hospitalization...
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 01:59 (five years ago) link
was just typing:
(support a defense fund for the people who were arrested, that is)
more details here:
https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2018/12/18/white-nationalist-hospitalized-after-street-fight-in-corvallis/
― sleeve, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 01:59 (five years ago) link
and yeah fuck this guy for real
Why is this shit so popular in the Pacific Northwest? Besides the high amount of white people (unless that's it).
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:05 (five years ago) link
That is it
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:10 (five years ago) link
https://www.politicalresearch.org/report/up-in-arms-a-guide-to-oregons-patriot-movement/up-in-arms-section-i/oregons-hard-right-history/
― sleeve, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 03:30 (five years ago) link
Ken White, the attorney behind @Popehat has been revealed as a longtime associate of and attorney for Marc Randazza who represents Alex Jones, neo-Nazis Andrew Anglin, Jared Taylor, Paul Nehlen, Chuck Johnson, Mike Cernovich, pro-rape misogynist “Roosh” Valizadeh, 8chan & the Gab https://t.co/6CsEqWZmgg— Heresy Labs (@heresysquad) December 28, 2018
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 28 December 2018 02:34 (five years ago) link
He’s probably a prick but being a lawyer for a guy who is a lawyer for Nazis doesn’t necessarily make you a Nazi, just makes you a lawyer
Probably
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Friday, 28 December 2018 03:17 (five years ago) link
https://external-preview.redd.it/TKfrVEbuIr6WjyiDual4QaJo0lkETlM8p6FTT6be_DQ.jpg?width=996&auto=webp&s=a4b105d8bd8e2b61b2c38babc3316cbb28ec4977
― tacticool spank bank material (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 13:42 (five years ago) link
hope they all get gut-shot
― Neil S, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 13:50 (five years ago) link
who's the poodle-haired fuck between Peterson & Shapiro
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 15:20 (five years ago) link
i think it's bret weinstein?
― tacticool spank bank material (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 15:23 (five years ago) link
I endorse JP as Mr Blonde
― rob, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
given his diet, mr brown might be more appropriate
― more ham for me myself and i (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
is that fuckin joe rogan in the back
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:24 (five years ago) link
good lord
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:27 (five years ago) link
l-r: jordan peterson, eric weinstein, ben shapiro, joe rogan, sam harris, dave rubin
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:28 (five years ago) link
truly the intellectual titans of our times
― Neil S, Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:31 (five years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/183983583/weinstein200-1_400x400.jpg
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:37 (five years ago) link
cool decision to invoke a film in which all of the protagonists are killed
― Love is Scarface (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:45 (five years ago) link
shapiro way too tall there
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 9 January 2019 17:50 (five years ago) link
Richard Spencer is getting a divorcehttps://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/richard-spencer-nina-kouprianova-divorce-abuse_us_5c2fc90ee4b0d75a9830ab69
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 January 2019 19:51 (five years ago) link
https://www.gofundme.com/help-me-divorce-quotalt-right-leaderquot-richard-spencer
― sleeve, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 05:59 (five years ago) link
These guys's ability to monetize douchery may be their most significant achievement
― moaty, boaty, big and bloaty (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 09:04 (five years ago) link
described himself as a Libertarian, and had even previously dated an operative in the Ron Paul movement. [...] His name was Richard Spencer. To assume that this man would become politically radicalized in the public eye just a few years down the road was beyond my wildest imagination.
Not much of an imagination, then.
― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 09:07 (five years ago) link
who could've predicted someone who admired ron paul would turn out to be a white supremacist
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 09:20 (five years ago) link
Yiannopolous is broke/heavily in debt iirc
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
Yeah but what a run that was.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 17:03 (five years ago) link
ehh in 2007/2008 Ron Paul wasn't really that fringe iirc
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 17:11 (five years ago) link
― sleeve, Tuesday, January 15, 2019 12:59 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I hadn't followed the previous Spencer abuse stuff. It really shouldn't be surprising at all, yet there is still something sort of striking about how he really is exactly what you'd expect him to be.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 17:18 (five years ago) link
There's a direct pipeline between Paul stans and open white nationalism.
Which isn't too shocking, given https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/12/the-story-behind-ron-pauls-racist-newsletters/250338/
― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 18:12 (five years ago) link
I know that now, but over a decade ago it wasn't what he was widely known for (at least among the libertarian set - one friend - at my high school). but obviously if you're someone like RS the pipeline was there. I think for most people he was the legalize it dude, plus anti-war & taxation. I do remember getting into an argument with this friend about RP being pro-life, though.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 18:33 (five years ago) link
the sentence being mocked was written in the present though
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link
sorry my reading comprehension is severely compromised today i have like 3 colds and my hands are covered in gauze
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 19:23 (five years ago) link
do tell
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 15 January 2019 19:51 (five years ago) link
the buried lede is that Spencer's wife was more knowledgeable on historical stuff and had the horrible views before meeting him, and likely did ghostwriting for him
― mh, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 19:59 (five years ago) link
my knuckles are all fucked up and cracked and dry and bleeding and i have no idea why. i also had food poisoning this weekend. ama
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 15 January 2019 20:07 (five years ago) link
sick sh*t
https://www.thedailybeast.com/laura-loomer-tricks-undocumented-men-for-her-latest-stunt
― brownie, Wednesday, 16 January 2019 14:49 (five years ago) link
there just isn't an end to her 15 minutes ignominious enough
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 15:08 (five years ago) link
pretty cool that she can hop a wall into nancy pelosi's property and try opening her front door and not get shot to death right there on the lawn
― Effectively Big Jim with a beard. (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 16 January 2019 15:11 (five years ago) link
also good:
Last week, prosecutors in Corvallis, OR decided they would not pursue charges against four activists who were protesting the presence of Oregon neo-Nazi Jimmy Marr and his associates in Corvallis. In December of last year, Marr parked his swastika-emblazoned truck in downtown Corvallis. Shortly after arriving near the truck, the activists were brutally attacked by neo-Nazis. The Nazis fled, while the activists who were subject to the beating were arrested for Disorderly Conduct II. The arrests, quite literally, added insult to injury. CLDC attorneys Lauren Regan and Cooper Brinson, along with National Lawyer's Guild Vice President, Cameron Green (Green Law LLC) represented the protestors.
― sleeve, Thursday, 17 January 2019 00:31 (five years ago) link
here's a podcast by a guy who listens to all the alt right podcasts. the first two cover richard spencer and david duke.http://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com
― adam the (abanana), Thursday, 17 January 2019 14:43 (five years ago) link
welp found out how i end up in prison
This MAGA loser gleefully bothering a Native American protestor at the Indigenous Peoples March. pic.twitter.com/jIb5K68vIs— Talia (@2020fight) January 19, 2019
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 19 January 2019 18:08 (five years ago) link
"Write the principal, Robert Brown, of Covington Catholic High in Kentucky and tell them what you think of this display of "Catholic graces". Phone system is full, fb page down. Email still works! Browe AT covcath DOT org"
― sleeve, Saturday, 19 January 2019 18:32 (five years ago) link
David Klion@DavidKlion
David Klion Retweeted Simar
One of these kids is gonna be confirmed to the Supreme Court some day
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 19 January 2019 19:13 (five years ago) link
Pretty depressing
― jmm, Saturday, 19 January 2019 19:21 (five years ago) link
can't wait for the school's official response. i'm expecting not too much different from Baraboo and their clutch of budding nazis
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 19 January 2019 19:31 (five years ago) link
Yeah, I thought of the Baraboo photo as well. But am I wrong in getting the impression that this is getting more attention than that?
― jmm, Saturday, 19 January 2019 20:27 (five years ago) link
There's also a particular identifiable victim in this case, the man being harassed. I don't know if that could make a difference.
― jmm, Saturday, 19 January 2019 20:46 (five years ago) link
There seems to be absolute outrage left right and centre about this all over my socials, by comparison i don't remember much about the chucklehounds doing the nazi salutes. There's something especially eerie about being stared at silently while you try and go about your business. Anyone who's done long periods of performing in public places or whatever knows exactly the feeling. It speaks of a very specifically disturbed kind of mind to do that type of shit. What a toerag. He's probably just ruined his whole life.
― piscesx, Saturday, 19 January 2019 21:15 (five years ago) link
nah i suspect he'll be just fine.
the only suitable remedy i can see is to take his family's home and make them walk to Oklahoma.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 19 January 2019 21:19 (five years ago) link
Prez will still manage to "both-sides" this somehow
― Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Saturday, 19 January 2019 21:20 (five years ago) link
I can't get over that there was minimum one adult around who was watching this and not removing psychochild from the premises
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 20 January 2019 00:20 (five years ago) link
They were there for an anti-abortion rally.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 20 January 2019 00:53 (five years ago) link
I refuse to follow politics anymore this shit is too exhausting see y'all in 2020
― flappy bird, Sunday, 20 January 2019 00:55 (five years ago) link
― brownie, Sunday, 20 January 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
man what are you supposed to do when it's kids who are chuds
have some fuckin self-respect, kids
― j., Sunday, 20 January 2019 01:54 (five years ago) link
All teenagers are chuds.
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 20 January 2019 02:30 (five years ago) link
maybe, but it takes a certain kind of chud to behave like that.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 January 2019 02:35 (five years ago) link
may have been said elsewhere, but this generation of young conservatives is smaller than previous eras, but its preoccupations are almost entirely white/male ID politics
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 20 January 2019 02:45 (five years ago) link
nice to see pretty much everyone on the internet is having the same reaction to that kid as I am
― frogbs, Sunday, 20 January 2019 03:13 (five years ago) link
He's now facing expulsion from his Catholic high school so there's that, at least.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 20 January 2019 10:29 (five years ago) link
i don't think this is even remotely true?
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Sunday, 20 January 2019 10:35 (five years ago) link
He's now facing expulsion from his Catholic high school
for getting caught
I thought that, on average, US Catholics were less racist than members of other denominations.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 20 January 2019 10:50 (five years ago) link
― Bênoit Balls (stevie), Sunday, January 20, 2019 2:35 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah c.f. parkland kids
― Clay, Sunday, 20 January 2019 11:38 (five years ago) link
unless unperson is 12 years old in which case fair dos
― nashwan, Sunday, 20 January 2019 13:07 (five years ago) link
If this was meant affectionately then aye, I agree. If not, well.
― Good cop, Babcock (Chinaski), Sunday, 20 January 2019 13:35 (five years ago) link
― pomenitul
i believe us catholicism is going through a significant amount of, uh, demographic change.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Sunday, 20 January 2019 14:01 (five years ago) link
I feel like there are definitely some vaguely liberal dioceses in the (urban) US but you’re talking about religious white ppl in Kentucky. it’s essentially a white ID movement at this point whether you’re taking about evangelicals or conservative Catholics.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Sunday, 20 January 2019 14:06 (five years ago) link
A few people posting that kids and parents at this school would be better Trump-voter profile subjects than the usual diner denizens, seeing as they are well-off and educated yet, hmm, still resentful, vindictive, entitled ignorant racist assholes.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 January 2019 14:26 (five years ago) link
There’s educated and ‘educated’ though: the college-educated Trump voter probably didn’t leave their home state for tertiary education and could best be described as petit bourgeois.
― suzy, Sunday, 20 January 2019 14:29 (five years ago) link
i dislike the implication that not traveling equates to ignorance.
― adam the (abanana), Sunday, 20 January 2019 14:53 (five years ago) link
Conversely, I've met people who've been to every continent and visited at least half of the world's countries and it hasn't made them any less jingoistic and xenophobic.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:00 (five years ago) link
it reminds me of the rapist roosh v being interviewed by angela washko, where he assumes she hasn't traveled and is therefore not as experienced as he.
― adam the (abanana), Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:15 (five years ago) link
― suzy, Sunday, January 20, 2019 8:29 AM (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lol or or or prob college educated trump voters are usually christian white dudes
signed, the petit bourgeois (tx)
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:19 (five years ago) link
Oh, the people I’m thinking of have the cash and inclination to travel, but it’s about their social groupings and values at home that make them Republicans/bigots/conservative.
― suzy, Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:20 (five years ago) link
I don't know what travel has to do with anything. These particular Catholic school kids ($10K a year in tuition) are simply the opposite of the "whoa is me, the coal plant closed down and Mexicans took my job so I'm going to vote for Trump to make things right" class. These folks are well-off and secure, which gives them no place to hide their racist, reactionary intent.
Then again, who knows. There was a stupid-ass kid here in my consciously (and self-consciously, and self-righteously) progressive community who got busted last year for scribbling swastikas and other hate speech on bathroom walls. As far as I can tell, his parents are tolerant, even welcoming upstanding members of the community. Sometimes kids are just shits who make bad decisions, and god help us, historically, when those kinds of kids gather in a group.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 January 2019 15:26 (five years ago) link
hahaha wowowow chuds on social media are really going all in that the native american veteran was the agressor
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Sunday, 20 January 2019 17:54 (five years ago) link
Hah I saw a guy sincerely try to use “kid was just entranced and fascinated by the music”
― frogbs, Sunday, 20 January 2019 18:03 (five years ago) link
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/maga-hat-donald-trump-native-american-covington-catholic-nathan-phillips-black-muslims-a8737186.html
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 January 2019 20:43 (five years ago) link
Apple, tree, etc.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 20 January 2019 20:46 (five years ago) link
on the other hand, black Muslims, what can you do?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 January 2019 21:32 (five years ago) link
shocking, I thought he'd be empathizing with them from the start
Turns out that the Covington Catholic kids were the good guys in the story. Consider this my public apology for assuming otherwise in my Periscope yesterday. I got fooled by @CNN fake news. That's 100% on me. https://t.co/GhkWigsDQQ— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) January 20, 2019
― frogbs, Sunday, 20 January 2019 21:42 (five years ago) link
What, Scott Adams ends up taking the Right on an issue? Phew...
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Sunday, 20 January 2019 21:44 (five years ago) link
aw damn Scotty blocked me :-(
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Sunday, 20 January 2019 22:41 (five years ago) link
Alt-right is like alternative facts. There’s the right way people should act; and then there’s the alternative right way people should act.
― ٩༼ º෴º ༽۶ (FlopsyDuck), Sunday, 20 January 2019 22:44 (five years ago) link
Just in: Statement of Nick Sandmann, Covington Catholic High School junior, about the event at the Lincoln Memorial: pic.twitter.com/PkuMh2cVZM— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) January 20, 2019
what are the odds that 'incest kids' was really 'incel kids' lol
― j., Monday, 21 January 2019 00:12 (five years ago) link
i watched a lot of the og video. the hecklers were def going the "incest" route. tbf, lil maga man does a Hapsburg ass chin.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 00:43 (five years ago) link
NY Times’ new conclusion; ‘It’s complicated’ https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur
― piscesx, Monday, 21 January 2019 01:33 (five years ago) link
how could it be anything other than what you snap-perceived it to be. lol nytimes
― (ADVANCE) (320k vbr) (--V2) (aps) (diVX) (2CD) OST - SB (2019) (esby), Monday, 21 January 2019 01:53 (five years ago) link
is there really no-one else here who thinks there's something creepy about large numbers of adults singling out one individual child, putting his face and name all over the internet, fantasizing about beating him up, writing articles about how he's a symbol of everything wrong with America etc?
lots of ppl sharing this take - the fact this kid doesn't seem to have actually done anything in particular is just evidence of how wicked and hateful he really is
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxYVBlNWoAAu6UO.jpg
― soref, Monday, 21 January 2019 10:28 (five years ago) link
Nothing arouses America more than Manichaean symbolism.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 10:33 (five years ago) link
Kid had a MAGA hat on, in a country where the police routinely kills black teenagers and the media then starts demonizing the teenagers. Stop defending him.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 10:37 (five years ago) link
I don't think anyone's defending his actions but the outrage has been disproportionate given his age. Then again, it's never been about him per se but about what he stands for – he's an image, not a person.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 10:42 (five years ago) link
ppl can momentarily embody wider social tensions and processes for which they ofc aren't individually responsible. you don't have to think this kid is an irredeemable demon to agree w that marlon james post
― ogmor, Monday, 21 January 2019 10:55 (five years ago) link
maybe, but a lot of the ppl sharing that post do seem to think the kid is an irredeemable demon, and are explicitly not seeing this in terms of him 'momentarily' embodying wider social tensions
look, maybe I'm taking all of this too personally - I'm autistic and frequently get into situations where I'm stood somewhere with what turns out to be an 'inappropriate' facial expression that people take offence to, and infer from that expression all kinds of things about what I'm thinking, feeling etc. I've seen loads of stuff like this, which is like some kind of anxiety dream version of that happening on a massively larger scale:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxYIX_zWwAEBay_.jpg
the crowd of schoolkids as a whole were being rowdy and obnoxious, this particular kid who ppl are enthusiastically turning into an emblem of everything bad in Trump's America is almost certainly an asshole, but I no-one deserves this
― soref, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:01 (five years ago) link
His age never made it ok, and his behaviour is still really racist - the irony here is that the Native American veteran literally went over there as a peace offering, and the kid thought he was provoking him and stared him down, and the reaction now is that we shouldn't have been so quick to think bad of white people. But of course it was always about what they represented.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:02 (five years ago) link
It was always the hat, as much as the smile.
there will always be ppl out there willing to judge you to be an irredeemable demon, you have to either disconnect or be prepared to not give every opinion serious consideration
― ogmor, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:15 (five years ago) link
Or not go to a March for Life demonstration wearing a MAGA hat. I know, people are so cruel.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:22 (five years ago) link
The kid obviously sucks but the principle of “making an example” of someone is gross. I’m proud of ilx for seeing nuance here.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:31 (five years ago) link
I remain unconvinced that age isn't a factor here. Doubly so in light of his family's statements, which betray some heavy-duty ideological reproduction. Scapegoating a teenager is never ok, no matter how just your cause. And the act of dissociating the 'man' himself from his viral likeness is fraught with ambiguity.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:34 (five years ago) link
That full video is kind of dreamlike. The black israelite preaching while one of his associates (i think) circles around them on a hover-skateboard. The guy switches between saying really provocative, awful things to the native protesters and then calling out real injustice—the rage isncoming from somewhere real even if the theology is exclusionary. Then suddenly the MAGA kids gather on the top of the steps and begin chanting incoherently in response to the street preacher. At one point a kid takes off his shirt and jumps in front of the crowd to lead them in some kind of chant, leading the guy with the camera (a black israelite) to turn it to himself and say “look who the real cavemen are.” This is around the point when Philips comes in and confronts the kids with the peace offering. The kids are by this point already super riled up.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:39 (five years ago) link
Who is talking about scapegoating? Thinking a young guy in a MAGA-hat is a piece of shit / budding sociopath is not scapegoating or lacking nuance. It's realistic. And for many people quite necessary.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:39 (five years ago) link
This is around the point when Philips comes in and confronts the kids with the peace offering.
Oh shut the fuck up
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:40 (five years ago) link
That is what happened
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:41 (five years ago) link
Philips is the native protester. He said he was trying to de-escalate the situation. I believe him.
'confronts'?
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:42 (five years ago) link
Approaches?
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:43 (five years ago) link
If you want to make me seem i’m pro-MAGA or something knock yourself out.
To 'confront' can also simply mean 'to encounter, to come face to face with'.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:43 (five years ago) link
Yeah, and it can mean other stuff. So say it a less shitty way if you don't want to be judged.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link
yes it can and of course that is what i meant.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:45 (five years ago) link
Fuck
You
Fred
Anyway, I think everyone itt agrees that the kid's behaviour was bigoted and idiotic, Frederik, I'm just questioning whether he's old enough to fully deserve and bear the brunt of the accusations cast against him (or his ephemeral effigy, as it were).
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:46 (five years ago) link
The idea that somehow it was confrontational of Philips to sing the peace song the way he did is so fucking stupid, and borderline racist. These kids show up at an Indigenous Peoples March wearing MAGA hats, the same week their glorious leader went off on another racist diatribe against Elizabeth Warren, and somehow the Native American activist is not even meant to de-escalate and be understanding, he is meant to do so in a specific comforting and non-threatening way, because otherwise this 'pumped up' kid will have no choice but to think he is attacking him and try to stare him down.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:47 (five years ago) link
A lot of people are more deserving of scorn than this kid, I don't think anyone disagrees. But the list of people who are more deserving of pity and protection is a hundred times as long, so it seems to me a stupid thing to waste time arguing about.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:49 (five years ago) link
Are you seriously reading into what i said that i think phikips should have been more accomodating of the racist mob? What the hell is the matter with you?
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:50 (five years ago) link
*philips
In any case, confronting a group of rowdy teenagers to try to stop a potentially violent situation is admirable behavior no matter how you do it. That dude is the only actor in the scene who is wholly sympathetic. The kid was part of a mob of racist douchebags and the shittiness people have read into his smile is probably not too far off the mark—his friends were mocking philips. I just wonder if it’s a good idea to single out specific adolescents on a national stage ad symbols of evil—there is a clear element of mob mentality at play here too.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:56 (five years ago) link
Fred OTM here, except for the weird misreading of the Treeship post.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 21 January 2019 11:58 (five years ago) link
I never mentioned Treeship in that post and you should stop jumping to conclusions and give me the very most generous interpretation of what I wrote because it could clearly be interpreted in a way where it all made perfect sense, and if you aren't willing to do that then what the fuck is wrong with you all?
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:00 (five years ago) link
Sorry, I'm just so fucking tired of this shit. I honestly do apologize if it seemed like I was aiming at you when I was mixing much broader attacks in there.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:01 (five years ago) link
It’s fine dude, i don’t hold grudges
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:02 (five years ago) link
But to clarify, Treeship, I don't think the problem is mob-mentality in general. There's racism, and there's the protection of numbers. Both are 'mobs' but they're very different mobs.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:04 (five years ago) link
What age is this little prick anyway?
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 12:05 (five years ago) link
Apparently a high school junior so 16 or 17 most likely
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:06 (five years ago) link
We've already established that age is just a number and that mob mentality isn't a problem when it echoes our own beliefs.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:09 (five years ago) link
Talk about shitty interpretations.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:11 (five years ago) link
Showing off in front of your mates is something men are stupid enough to do at any age.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 12:11 (five years ago) link
Well you're basically espousing a zero-sum game approach: who gives a fuck about this shitty kid, there are so many other more important things to worry about, nuance is a waste of time in this instance. It's a legitimate point of view, but one I can't get behind it, sorry.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:13 (five years ago) link
Scratch that last 'it'.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:14 (five years ago) link
The impasse that keeps coming up is that the right wing in america in 2019 is so hateful, so radical, so irresponsible and so dishonest, that at any point critiquing the shortcomings of the left feels bizarre, like complaining about a broken window when the house is on fire. I get this position. But i also think it’s important to keep ourselves to a higher standard of conduct. So my critique of the excesses of call out culture and other things come from that standpoint.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:24 (five years ago) link
There's nothing nuanced about a MAGA-cap, and attempting to get a nuanced reading of MAGA-cap-wearing people is nonsensical. It's completely breathtaking to read the statement from the kid, who not once mentions the fact that they were wearing caps swearing allegiance to a racist, sexist piece of shit. The gall to constantly wonder why on earth anyone would choose to attack us poor white Trump'ers, when we clearly have no hate in our hearts and our little heads wearing hateful hats.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:41 (five years ago) link
I don't know about you, but a 16 or 17 year old wearing a MAGA cap doesn't elicit the same reaction from me as an adult doing the same. That's what I mean by 'nuance'.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:44 (five years ago) link
16 year old in a MAGA cap makes me angrier because they're young enough to know better
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:52 (five years ago) link
Yeah, except this is Covington Catholic High School in Park Hills, KY we're talking about. All-male to boot.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:54 (five years ago) link
You should be old enough at 16-17 not to wear a MAGA cap. It's not hard. Gillette explained it recently.
― Frederik B, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:56 (five years ago) link
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 12:58 (five years ago) link
Look, it's really pretty simple: You show up at the March For Life wearing a MAGA hat, you've already revealed yourself as human garbage. You don't have to have any kind of interaction with a member of a minority group to further prove your human garbage status.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 21 January 2019 14:43 (five years ago) link
Why single out this kid who's not even old enough to vote, then, out of everyone who goes to pro-life rallies or wears MAGA hats?
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 14:56 (five years ago) link
think it all boils down to the dude's smug and exquisitely punchable face honestly
― frogbs, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:01 (five years ago) link
yeah but it is a kid and he's fucking blowing up all over the internet. idk.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:19 (five years ago) link
NO QUARTER FOR THE CHILDREN OF OUR ENEMIES!
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:21 (five years ago) link
i would honestly rather be burned alive than be subject to the ire of a nation. i would never wear a MAGA hat so i am not at risk of *this* kind of anger, but people are getting called out all the time and sometimes there is gratuitousness to it and cruelty
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:21 (five years ago) link
I thought the guy being called out and getting death threats was the wrong guy and it was another guy.
― anvil, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:38 (five years ago) link
the thing is, death threats should just in no case be happening
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:38 (five years ago) link
who are the death threat senders? it's usually not MAGA teens getting death threats, it's like feminist bloggers and things.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:39 (five years ago) link
I think this is part of what creeps me out: he's targeted for not being photogenic enough.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 15:41 (five years ago) link
he's a meme, he captures a certain feeling too well
― ogmor, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
is that justifiable though?
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:46 (five years ago) link
the way the media singles out, pours attention onto & judges individuals generally is very bad, this case is not exceptional though imo
― ogmor, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:52 (five years ago) link
That hat represents a million jobs taken hostage in the name of white supremacy, thousands of brown kids separated from their families, "Pocahontas" being thrown around as a slur, the 'right' to commit any criminal action you see fit so long as you're rich and white - his face just perfectly captures everything reprehensible about the MAGA movement, "what are you going to do about it??" Like, I don't think the kid 'deserves' this, but then I think about Christine Ford and just go, "whatever, fuck him"
― frogbs, Monday, 21 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
I don't think the kid 'deserves' this
U&K
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
lol the only thing that scans as to me is "Undertaker and Kane"
― frogbs, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
I assume it's because he's a kid that this has captured so much attention. The whole image is more conflicted and painful this way.
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
Same! :) xp
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 21 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
I can maybe give middle aged dudes in red hats some benefit of the doubt - they may really hope or think that trump will make their lives better, which of course means that they aren’t all that smart or are terribly desperate or deluded (especially in 2019). Whereas I imagine a teenager with one is guaranteed to be a smug trolling asshole at best and a virulent racist at worst.
― joygoat, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
i agree jmm. it raises the specter of a new generation of right wing nationalists, which is more upsetting than seeing trump as the last gasp of a fading generation.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:04 (five years ago) link
just sitting here imagining a group of black or hispanic male teens shucking their shirts, hopping around chanting, mugging for the camera outside of the Lincoln monument.
i'm sure the MSM would be bending over backwards to see some "nuance"
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 16:23 (five years ago) link
Tit-for-tat, always the best strategy, amirite.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:25 (five years ago) link
i don't know what the media would do, but i wouldn't want a 16 year old individual from that hypothetical group singled out for special condemnation xp
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 16:27 (five years ago) link
ftr i'm not singling out the main twerp; the whole group is deplorable. particularly any adults from Convington who were there to "chaperone".
and yeah, the BHI dudes are total assholes. all what, 4 of them?
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
I don't even know what the argument is at this point. "The original narrative we were righteously outraged about was probably wrong but, eh, fuck him anyway"?
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
This is a long but interesting Twitter thread. (TL;DR: the school that produced these MAGA-hat fucks should be burned to the ground, as it's a breeding ground for racists and rapists.)
The MAGA kids’ school seems extremely and consistently horrible pic.twitter.com/fSsPpOigvn— pizza roll heiress (@christapeterso) January 20, 2019
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 21 January 2019 17:35 (five years ago) link
"The original narrative" was just the 2-minute clip. I don't think people were particularly interested in what "started it"
― frogbs, Monday, 21 January 2019 17:42 (five years ago) link
yeah there isn't really any nuance here? this kid sucks.
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 January 2019 17:45 (five years ago) link
The original narrative was that a mob of white students were harassing and intimidating an elderly vet during the Indigenous People's March, which context doesn't really support. No one was calling for expulsions over a hat or attendance at the March for Life. xp
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 17:47 (five years ago) link
or over other bad things that happened at their school involving other people
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 17:48 (five years ago) link
Like, the update tells a different story from the original post here: https://splinternews.com/white-students-in-maga-hats-taunt-harass-native-americ-1831894825?fbclid=IwAR2r30uuXRw5tAboWNY2m2VNEkjB2MGbMfqdAf306aXxR9343KRVByBX9-A
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 17:50 (five years ago) link
the most highly voted commend on that article advocates letting kids beat each other up in school so that racist kids would get beat up
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:06 (five years ago) link
a classic publication of the left that splinter news
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:07 (five years ago) link
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, January 21, 2019 9:47 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
are they not harassing and intimidating an indigenous vet?
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:08 (five years ago) link
I don't think it's at all clear that they are, no.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:10 (five years ago) link
he doesn't look intimidated to me? he looks purposeful; why turn him into a victim?
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:10 (five years ago) link
Their attempts at intimidation failed - so that's fine then, nothing to see here.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:12 (five years ago) link
Phillips approached them. They didn't approach him at the Indigenous Peoples' March The one kid is literally doing nothing - standing and awkwardly smiling after Phillips went up to him. The others are chanting along, which might or might not be mockery. I don't see an obvious reason to regard their explanations here as less credible than the narrative that they were harassing him.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:15 (five years ago) link
It matters how the thing started. If Phillips walked up to the kid (which is how it looks from the video) then that's a different situation from the kid going out of his way to plant himself in someone's face. Not that I buy the idea that the kid was trying to defuse the situation either. It looks much more like he's unwilling to back down, and being goaded on.
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
kind of think busing a bunch of belligerent high school students to support your school religion's political stances is a less than effective idea to begin with
of the people I've met who have experienced that type of thing, half of it was going along with what their school encouraged or a way to fuck around on a trip, maybe even miss a day of class and clown around on a bus (and maybe a hotel, if it was an affluent school)
they probably were briefed on their right-to-life nonsense, if they even paid attention in that school assembly, and defaulted to being confused asshole teens
all evidence points to them being assholes, though
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link
at this point, i have to say i don't think it matters if this kid was being a smug bigoted bully or not, because if he was: a) taking him down via social media or w/e feels like a waste of time, because it wouldn't destroy him or lead to an awakening, he'd be "just fine" b) it's a waste of energy that could and should be used for more positive things, i mean who cares about this kid and studying the tape like it's the zapruder film, c) there's an endless supply of low-level bigots out there and we can shame every single one to death but it would be useless, it will never work, and the reasons for a backlash against the left sometimes comes from the overuse of energy on issues like this.
it feels like clickbait news, just turning a single moment perhaps out of context into a massive national issue, because people want to see others immediately as a villain or a hero. which is not to say that Phillips didn't feel a certain way at that moment, i mean i don't doubt that the crowd he waded into had let's generously say a "weird energy" at the moment, or this kid has *opinions* which are not cool.
I mean every other day there's a new "moment" and energy is evaporated away on these moments and then the next one comes along and everyone is miserable again. my FB feed is filled up with this kind of thing multiple times per week and it's just misery as fuel for action and i think it does not particularly help as much as people think it should.
― omar little, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:33 (five years ago) link
i already regret posting anything but since u mentioned it and i don't think what you're saying is totally unreasonable (that how the person reacted is unrelated to the intention): in the absence of compelling evidence about the intention looking to see its result is worthwhile esp when evaluating harm claims.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:35 (five years ago) link
xp the best case afaict is that this stuff is trivial and a waste of time and not just actively destructive to everyone involved. i think sometimes ppl do get the most heated over the most trivial things bc it's a fake symbolic space to project other more complicated or upsetting emotions. raging on ilx or twitter is basically a zero-cost rant. if it is encouraging social fractures, or hurting the ppl doing the venting, or whatever bad psychological backlash one can imagine, that might just be an unfortunate secondary effect.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link
― soref, Monday, January 21, 2019 12:01 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's because this particular kid is an emblem of everything bad in Trump's America.
Should his life be destroyed? No. Should we see what he is a product of or what he signifies? Mos def.
Sucks to be you, MAGA-hat kid, but Fred otm.
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:41 (five years ago) link
it's a striking still image (kid standing with a weird look) and you could subject it to all kinds of interpretation, but regardless of intent in the moment it's definitely a kid way the fuck out of his element, and he's wearing a hat that is pretty much the symbol of defining an in-crowd specifically by belittling anyone who doesn't fit a narrow definition. not exactly a way to provide kids with constructive ways of dealing with the world
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:41 (five years ago) link
omar otm
― gbx, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:43 (five years ago) link
and he's wearing a hat that is pretty much the symbol of defining an in-crowd
MAGA is "in-crowd"?
Good luck USA.
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:44 (five years ago) link
honestly I don't know if I'd share this opinion "publicly" but them wearing MAGA hats en masse is practically enough for me; at this point that in itself is an act of hostility and intimidation. I think even, or especially, Trump supporters know this. which is why, even here in what's mostly Trump country, I don't really see that many MAGA hats, because it's sort of an aggressive move that most beautiful aren't comfortable with in their daily lives.
in this case you have dozens of students purposely wearing them in coordination (do we think that they all chose to wear them separately, just by coincidence? no, they coordinated it, knowing it might cause a stir. i used to live in DC and would see this sometimes from tourists—they'd wear a bunch of "right-wing" gear, often by families in coordination--probably orchestrated by the dad, i'd guess-- I guess hoping to get noticed and maybe get a rise out of people.)
as for the one kid, i recognize that invasion of personal space and that smug "test me, c'mon, test me" expression. I don't actually think it's generally an expression of "white privilege" as many on social media are saying — though it may be undergirded by white privilege in this case. it's just the expression of a bully, which I recognize from plenty of encounters in middle and high school.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:45 (five years ago) link
er, i don't know how i typed "most beautiful" instead of "most people"
i must be very very tired
(and FWIW the "kid's" statement, as plainly written by a lawyer as any piece of prose ever, can be thoroughly discounted.)
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:48 (five years ago) link
his explanation for his expression since totally reasonable to me. he was approached by this guy there was a hostile crowd around (two in fact, his own and the black israelites), he was uncomfortable and made a fake smile to try to disarm the situation without having to say or do anything. ppl online who think they can read ppl's minds by their facial expressions are afaict not criminal profilers in their day jobs and should likely have a bit more humility about their ability to read the human soul.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:48 (five years ago) link
seems*
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:49 (five years ago) link
in-crowd doesn't mean country-wide, or even being in a majority. it's a term I'm applying to a *group* and the student populace at that school, according to a lot of people who *didn't* fit that definition, encountered a lot of bullying and belittling
I get the impression you're not a social outcast for wearing a maga hat at that particular kentucky catholic school
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:49 (five years ago) link
mordy, i wouldn't sit as an expert witness in a courtroom, but i don't think that's a "disarming" smile. it's an exaggerated smile meant to express machismo. that the kid pointedly doesn't step back out of the older man's personal space is another clue as to the intent behind it.
whatever it is, it's certainly not the "silent prayer" (lol) suggested in the kid's lawyer's statement.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:52 (five years ago) link
did we notice the part where the priest from the same diocese (who says he wasn't an official chaperone of these young men but /was/ among their group at various points during/after the march) retweeted stuff from alt-right accounts minimizing or endorsing slavery?
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
in my life ppl often think i am thinking things or feeling things bc they misread an expression on my face so maybe that has primed me to be more generous about ppl's accounting for how their facial expressions look
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link
that the kid pointedly doesn't step back out of the older man's personal space is another clue as to the intent behind it.
also it has been mentioned but the guy engaged the kid not vice-versa. why do you think the older man wanted him to duck away if he approached him? it looked to me like they were having an exchange.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 18:56 (five years ago) link
that is completely understandable, and like i said, i wouldn't swear on anything in court. it's just an expression and a context i recognize, or think i recognize.
and i think the decision of the teens to wear those hats en masse is itself suggestive of their "intent." that provides a key context for their behavior. if not the only context.
the older man wandered into the crowd. the kid made a pointed decision to stand right in front of him and not move an inch. in some angles it looks as though the kid steps forward-- i didn't get the sense the native american man moved up into the kid's personal space that aggressively. but that's the kind of stuff that's hard to judge unless you are applying zapruder-like analysis and i just don't have the time.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 18:57 (five years ago) link
also i really don't think this context called for a "disarming" smile at all or that this explanation even makes much sense. (also again, lol, "silent prayer.") i sometimes smile when i'm in uncomfortable situations, but it's a very different sort of smile. that rimbus grin is something i do when i'm being sarcastic or trying to signal my contempt. i used to wear that smile when i'd pass, say, anti-abortion protestors holding up pictures of fetuses, or dumb frat boys yelling shit from bars, or whatever. it's a "fuck you" smile.
but again, eyes/beholder/etc.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:00 (five years ago) link
er, rictus grin
again, i am so very tired
I see a lot of liberal handwringing on my social media feeds over the Covington kids being dragged unfairly, and all I can think is like an Onion headline: Teenagers at Anti-Woman March Surprised at Being Called Racist
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:01 (five years ago) link
Sorry for not giving a bunch of private school white dudes in MAGA hats at an anti-abortion rally the benefit of the doubt, my bad.
Teenagers Wearing MAGA Hats at Anti-Woman March Surprised at Being Called Racist
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:02 (five years ago) link
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIm3HKIwUk0iNvSMn832Bqkq0GP1SuTYIPvtx_Z8NObwB5GBTQPw
"oh, this old thing? i don't mean anything by it. my best sweater was in the wash."
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:03 (five years ago) link
no one cares what u think of them tbh. it's just interesting how these events occur and spiral on social media and to me it does seem pathological for the participants in the event itself as well as all its participants online - what they get out of it, what it means about political discourse, whether it's good or bad. but the more i think on it the less those questions seem to reveal either and the whole thing just becomes a toxic sludge of idiocy and anger so what can u do. completely withdraw i guess which is what i've been doing more and more of over the last decade. oue culture is just dumb there's nothing to be gotten out of it.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:03 (five years ago) link
like being angry at a kid on a video you say on the internet on ilx idk maybe the optimistic reading is that the affects you're inserting into the social media atmosphere are building up and creating a new climate where blah blah but more likely you're doing it bc you're scared of our politics and where our country is going and it's a way to let off some steam but again that's to no one's credit really. righteous anger isn't really righteous or angry it turns out.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link
The others are chanting along, which might or might not be mockery
I mean, I'll grant that they probably don't speak Phillilps's language and don't share the spiritual beliefs the chant probably expressed, so it was unlikely that this was "solidarity", as Reason suggests. The context of who approached whom still does make a difference imo.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link
the "solidarity" thing was laughable
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:06 (five years ago) link
Idgi. The emergence of what the Israelites said to the white kids shouldn't be moving the needle that much. It was always stipulated that there was a dispute between the two groups but the focus was on Elder Phillips.
Think people keep forgetting this was an Indigenous People's March. This was Phillips's event. The Israelites were being assholes but I think they'd tuned them out. But now you have a group of white kids wearing hats known to provoke a reaction gathered en masse. True, they were only at the Lincoln Memorial to meet their chaperones, but when I went on field trips as a kid, if any outside element was coming into conflict with us, and it posed no eminent danger, I would round them up and pull them away from it. Perhaps talk about it after.
Instead, the kids remained gathered, and were an easy target for the Israelites with their matching hats. And the chaperones just let them stay, even gave them permission to do a counter chant. This might have been acceptable if this was purely an Israelite rally, but this confrontation was actually disrupting the Indigenous People's march with negative energy. The kids even went back to bring more people who weren't initially involved into the fray.
It seems a bit like a "they started it" defense. It was like two guests getting into a fight at someone's house, with the host wanting them to knock it off.
When Phillips first begins banging his drum, his voice and demeanor are calm. He doesn't go right up to Sandmann, either. He is at first off to the side, several feet away and laughing. His facial expression only becomes a fixed stare when Phillips steps forward, in front of him. Why did Sandmann keep standing there, staring him down?
The argument is that Phillips did first, but I don't buy it. The video is shot from an awkward angle which, I think gives the illusion that the two are looking at each other. Similar to the "Kobe didn't flinch!" optical illusion.
But Phillips's eyes seem to meandering and shifting, almost as if he's trying to look away from Sandmann, whose gaze seems lazer focused on Phillips, his smile gradually fading.
Surrounding kids are mocking the song with faux-tomahawk chants and FSU Seminoles war crying. Several kids to Phillips's right are yelling things but due to the noise, it all meshes together. So who knows what they were saying. It doesn't prove "Build the Wall" wasn't shouted. Cell phone videos aren't going to pick up pristine audio from a group of kids at a fixed distance while the camera is inches away from a group of indigenous singers and several kids "singing along". It's not like this thing is the Zapruder film. It's incomplete as it's zoomed in.
I mean, is it worth the energy we've spent on it? In hindsight, probably not. But this new vid hardly exonerates the boys or casts the indigenous in a bad light. It was their damn rally, frankly who could blame them even if they were pissed that two feuding parties loudly let their beef spill over into the middle of it.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:09 (five years ago) link
The lib handwringing that tipsy alludes to has indeed been aggravating. As if they are just trying to once again be mediators that nobody adked them to be.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:11 (five years ago) link
Mordy otm throughout
― Οὖτις, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:12 (five years ago) link
it's not the worth energy spent on it except that ppl view this as a prism to project all the other culture wars stuff they've been fighting - it's a symbolic flash point. so ppl are confusing all these other commitments they have for this event as tho by fighting this they can work out all the other stuff bothering them. and this keeps happening over and over. and if you're not exhausted by it it's probably bc you are getting something psychologically out of it. even if they send this kid to jail for life or he can't get a job or get into the college he wants or whatever consequence you're hoping for it won't fix or change anything in this country or in your life. it's not true that by holding this kid accountable trump or brett kavanaugh will be held accountable. humanity is full of bad ppl getting away with bad things. there's an entire branch of theology dedicated to resolving that friction. we're not going to solve it by deciding whether it's really a choad of the corn or just a facsimile.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:13 (five years ago) link
it's not the worth energy spent on it except that ppl view this as a prism to project all the other culture wars stuff they've been fighting - it's a symbolic flash point. so ppl are confusing all these other commitments they have for this event as tho by fighting this they can work out all the other stuff bothering them
all of this is absolutely correct. the teens are still assholes imo.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:14 (five years ago) link
also i do think that these sort of "flashpoints" or spectacles do have a way of steering discourse and affecting minds--and not just in the age of social media. activism itself often recognizes the usefulness of certain kinds of spectacle which aren't themselves the concrete stuff of policy or social change, but have symbolic value. so i'm not entirely sure what the advantage of running away from discussing this stuff is. that said, i'm not sure what the advantage of dwelling on it is, either.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:16 (five years ago) link
Ftr i don't believe in ruining anybody's life over it. I have problems with some (repeat, some) aspects of callout culture, typically when it seeks a punishment greatly in excess of the crime.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:17 (five years ago) link
it's not the worth energy spent on it except that ppl view this as a prism to project all the other culture wars stuff they've been fighting - it's a symbolic flash point
This is otm through and through. People view things as a prism for projection. It's never not been thus, it's how humanity rolls.
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:17 (five years ago) link
ime with this event ppl on the left are inclined to view it one way, people on the right the opposite, and everyone else is splitting the difference and shrugging their shoulders. similarly with gillette commercial. ppl who were primed to love it loved it, ppl primed to hate it hated it. ppl not primed one way or the other had a more complicated take (some good, some bad, or just agnosticism). i don't see that these things move the needle and when they do it's just as likely to create opposite and equal reactions.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:18 (five years ago) link
well it's that and copout ego trips xp
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:18 (five years ago) link
It is kinda funny though that as soon as the student sympathizers find a video they feel paints them in a better light, it's now the COMPLETE IREFFUTABLE VIDEO, and not a vid that leaves many of the students offscreen, inaudible, and us rife with awkward camera angles.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:19 (five years ago) link
i don't see that these things move the needle
which things? some do, some don't. maybe not this one.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:20 (five years ago) link
otm, ego trips underrated imo xxp
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:22 (five years ago) link
Fair points, Neanderthal.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Monday, 21 January 2019 19:24 (five years ago) link
If we are taking votes, I am in the fuck that kid camp.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:54 (five years ago) link
phrasing
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:55 (five years ago) link
well, he is going to catholic school.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:56 (five years ago) link
If we are taking votes, I am in the fuck that kid camp.― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:54 (ten minutes ago) Permalink
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 19:54 (ten minutes ago) Permalink
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:20 (five years ago) link
electoral college means that kid wins
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
At least this kid is getting an early lesson that he shouldn't dress so provocatively or hang out with people taking their tops off or stand directly in someone's personal space where it might be misinterpreted a certain way.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:25 (five years ago) link
lol that is a v good take
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:29 (five years ago) link
it's not the worth energy spent on it
Mordy otm on this but not much else tbh.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:31 (five years ago) link
imo the lesson should be that pro-life field trips are a lot less about active engagement and a lot more about rote expression of received values
in this case, the actual values came out when they started chanting at a completely different event than they were there for. save your energy for the march! this isn't your fight
i'd give the students a very small portion of blame for the whole thing compared to the school chaperones and their parents, who think having teens (who likely don't give a shit) chanting at a pro-life event does anything useful at reinforcing their beliefs or convincing others
what are the odds the kids smuggled a bunch of booze and more than a few of them are buzzed in the pics? having known some kids who went to a similar, but overall less conservative private catholic school, i'd say... pretty good
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:31 (five years ago) link
teens old enough to decide to face up/down to old dudes are old enough to be blamed for being dickheads mh
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:33 (five years ago) link
They were high off of listening to Ben Shapiro and his baby hitler fanfic.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:34 (five years ago) link
you're just underestimating how much blame i'm pouring on their parents and school
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:35 (five years ago) link
Yes. But are they old enough to be publicly blamed for being dickheads by millions of anonymous adults?
2xp
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:36 (five years ago) link
yeah
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:36 (five years ago) link
we'll say one thousand blame points for school, 750 for parents, 500 or so for the kids
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:37 (five years ago) link
teenagers nowadays are living in warhol squared best they get used to the concept
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:37 (five years ago) link
They were waiting for the bus to go home. They should've removed themselves (+ adults) from the situation completely.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:37 (five years ago) link
I mean Covington is getting dragged at this point (with the rape and the blackface) so they are getting their blame points.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:38 (five years ago) link
I blame society.
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:40 (five years ago) link
the parents
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:42 (five years ago) link
it takes a village
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:46 (five years ago) link
I gotta say, "Won't someone think of the pro-life, MAGA-hatted, teen dickholes" was not a take I expected on ILX.
Let's try to stay positive people: maybe their bus will crash on the way to their next rally.
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:47 (five years ago) link
People really love the good guy exception. People will break their backs trying to hand it out.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:48 (five years ago) link
We'll send over Prince Philip to drive it.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:50 (five years ago) link
L.O.L
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:51 (five years ago) link
Damn, crazy that there's so many people worrying about whether Nicholas Sandmann, whose mother Julie Sandmann is the vice president of Relationship Management at Fidelity Investments and father Ted Sandmann is a sales manager for a VT Hackney "deserves to have his life ruined" over this
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 20:52 (five years ago) link
Good thing you're here to cut through the crap and set us on the right moral track whenever we begin to exhibit signs of concern trolling.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:54 (five years ago) link
wow shocking the mob is taking the "mobs are good" position
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:54 (five years ago) link
my take: medium-sized groups with meetings and discussion, mobs, and individuals can all be horrible but in different, dynamically awful ways
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:56 (five years ago) link
worry not he'll be sailing though his senate confirmation for a federal judgeship in 2040.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 20:57 (five years ago) link
I really wanted to join the mob when I read the Lucky Santangelo series in jr high. But soon realized I would never be accepted.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:57 (five years ago) link
to raise a chud?
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 20:59 (five years ago) link
mob mentality is what those teen boys were displaying while waiting for their bus.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 21:00 (five years ago) link
xp at Yerac : I grew up with a number of post-Godfather movie italian kids (well, the ones who did not go to private catholic school) and the kids who affected the "hey, my family totally has cool mob ties" shtick kind of ruined the whole thing for me
― mh, Monday, 21 January 2019 21:00 (five years ago) link
I was young and those books were such great trash reads.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 21:02 (five years ago) link
Only if he's been keeping his calendars!
― Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 21 January 2019 21:04 (five years ago) link
he probably won't face permanent consequences for being caught on camera in a MAGA hat smirking at a native american maybe in a more enlightened society
― Mordy, Monday, 21 January 2019 21:06 (five years ago) link
Feel like in a more enlightened society Nicholas Sandmann, whose mother Julie Sandmann is the vice president of Relationship Management at Fidelity Investments and father Ted Sandmann is a sales manager for a VT Hackney, should probably be ostracized for confronting minorities while wearing what's essentially a klan hood
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 21:10 (five years ago) link
There's some weird takes in this thread. If you think, even for a second, that they were dancing in chanting in solidarity, give your head a shake.
― husked, tonal wails (irrational), Monday, 21 January 2019 21:22 (five years ago) link
Wait, are you talking about the group of kids who were nearly all wearing MAGA hats and who included Nicholas Sandmann, whose mother Julie Sandmann is the vice president of Relationship Management at Fidelity Investments and father Ted Sandmann is a sales manager for a VT Hackney?
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 21:30 (five years ago) link
I feel like for the libs handwringing on my feed, most of it was performative, to demonstrate "look, we're not all stodgy partisans".
Also the same people that called Bush "a remnant of a kinder era" and say nice things about Reagan
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 21:31 (five years ago) link
struggling with how Phillips walking over to the students justifies the students mocking him and Native Am culture... (not saying anyone here did exactly that, but I have seen it elsewhere)
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2019 21:32 (five years ago) link
Yea it's the whole collateral damage piece. If a woman came up to me and criticized me, does that now gove me carte blanche to start throwing around gendered insults and yell "get back in the kitchen?
Like it really means you feel that way anyway and are just looking for justification to show your ass.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:03 (five years ago) link
Was this in here yet? Covington Catholic basketball game, 2015
https://mltshp-cdn.com/r/1FDWQ
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 22:09 (five years ago) link
idk about klan hat equivalent but
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:20 (five years ago) link
What the fuck kind of high school puts a blackface video on their own Youtube channel?
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 22:24 (five years ago) link
wait thats an actual shitbrix koment for me wtf
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:28 (five years ago) link
The fig leaf is that this is a "blackout game", which is a real thing, but fuck that, these shits know what they're doing. In fact, it kind of makes me wonder how often a "blackout game" is used as an excuse for predominantly white schools to wear blackface when playing predominantly black schools.
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 22:33 (five years ago) link
they're from fucking kentucky, they know what blackface is
― Dan I., Monday, 21 January 2019 22:34 (five years ago) link
"no it wasn't blackface, they painted their WHOLE BODY black and called themselves 'the Crazies' during school games"
Oh ok!
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:35 (five years ago) link
googling blackout game gets me a list of call of duty hits but im struggling to see a context that could rly even pretend to work here tbh
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:35 (five years ago) link
anyone painting their face (or whole body) black is either racist or a clueless moron about the implications**claims of innocent "BLACKOUT" night school spirit shit are obv negated anyway by them painting white around their eyes and mouth
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:37 (five years ago) link
Major bummer here is the convenient appearance for FOX et al of Black Israelites, like they're representative of anything. Ppl who don't live in big cities don't get that it's always just three or four deranged assholes doing bible cosplay.
― Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:38 (five years ago) link
Add in a star athlete recent Covington grad is recently sitting in jail on rape and sodomy charges. His second offense. At least his scholarship just got taken away.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 22:39 (five years ago) link
you could really stretch and say kids are not aware of the history of blackface...but last I checked there's parents and faculty policing student's attire and behavior. girl wearing shorts above mid thigh=GO HOME AND CHANGE IMMEDIATELY YOU HARLOT. guys wearing blackface=I see no problem here!
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 21 January 2019 22:41 (five years ago) link
i think the thing that so many of us forget is that the parents and faculty in schools like these think this kind of stuff is "cool" and "funny"
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:09 (five years ago) link
like my parents are your garden variety racist asshats from mississippi and i don't even think they'd let this shit slide if i'd been so inclined
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:11 (five years ago) link
Is this when he was scared and saying his silent prayer ? 🤷♀️ pic.twitter.com/miz86vgN0B— BobbieLenhoff (@BobbieLenhoff) January 21, 2019
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:12 (five years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxbNKipWwAEp5bK.jpg
― piscesx, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:27 (five years ago) link
saving babbys
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:29 (five years ago) link
i'm much more comfortable putting the onus of responsibility on the faculty chaperones rather than one kid
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:30 (five years ago) link
Likewise. Social determinism goes both ways.
― pomenitul, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:32 (five years ago) link
I'm sure the chaperones are also lovely people.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:37 (five years ago) link
They really need to start taxing churches.
― Yerac, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:44 (five years ago) link
*students are discarding their clothes at the Lincoln memorial*
Chaperone: This is fine.
― jmm, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:45 (five years ago) link
Aye, and there's yer man on the right hand side of that photo obviously traumatized by the abuse from the Black Israelites.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:51 (five years ago) link
i mean, the "statement" was drafted by a lawyer. i've taught high school and that wasn't written in the voice of a teen.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 21 January 2019 23:53 (five years ago) link
Nobody should ever put out a multipage public statement. Especially if they are denying something. A paragraph will do! Or nothing! Why make a statement?
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Monday, 21 January 2019 23:57 (five years ago) link
hey, are you guys still talking about the group that includes internationally notorious racist and women's rights opponent Nicholas Sandmann, whose mother Julie Sandmann is the vice president of Relationship Management at Fidelity Investments and father Ted Sandmann is a sales manager for a VT Hackney?
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:00 (five years ago) link
what is this is weird shtick none of us are going to have any professional leverage over any members of the sandmann family so the only potential consequences from this is ilx maybe having to deal w/ unnecessary legal trouble
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:04 (five years ago) link
ilx could?
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:05 (five years ago) link
i mean it's unlikely but maybe if someone sent a cease and desist or something? i can't imagine any other possible consequences tho.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:06 (five years ago) link
You know, I'm not sure Nicholas Sandmann, who opposes women's rights and was part of a mob who surrounded and mocked a native american man, and whose mother Julie Sandmann is the vice president of Relationship Management at Fidelity Investments and father Ted Sandmann is a sales manager for a VT Hackney, really has a legal case against ILX
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:06 (five years ago) link
A c&d isn’t really “legal trouble”
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:06 (five years ago) link
this is so stupid it's making my head explode i'm going to bed
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
However your shtick, while no doubt righteous, seems frivolous.
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
The statement he put out was really terrible. Every teenager knows what 'harvesting his organs' means. FFS they were at a pro-life/anti-choice rally, this is their wank material.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
Good night you fucking "centrist" quisling!
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
this thread is deindexed
― omar little, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
so it literally serves no purpose at all
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:08 (five years ago) link
I think we can all agree that if one is photographed appearing racist one certainly should’ve and could’ve made at least a few different decisions to avoid such an incident.
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:09 (five years ago) link
so invigorating to read concern trolls defend nazi youth itt
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:10 (five years ago) link
get a life
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:17 (five years ago) link
I like this word quisling; I had to look it up.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:18 (five years ago) link
dan come on
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:18 (five years ago) link
the defense of this kid in this thread is extremely confusing to me. feel like ilx maybe would have had less defenders if the dude him and his friends were mocking wasn't native
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:19 (five years ago) link
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:20 (five years ago) link
It's also confusing to me, I was assuming it's because they have never experienced that face/smirk/stare at that distance before. For some of us, it's been a lifetime of it.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:21 (five years ago) link
you think mordy, pomenitul, sund4r and i have a bias have a bias against native americans and that's why we are uncomfortable with the dox lyfe?
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:21 (five years ago) link
i think bigotry against native american people engenders a surprisingly small amount of attention or care from people in general, compared with other visible minorities
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:22 (five years ago) link
there's quite open attempts to explain-away his behaviour in this thread. I'm not talking about criticisms of call-out culture or doxing which i am in complete agreement with
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:23 (five years ago) link
ah ok. got it. yeah, i agree that native americans in general are too often pushed to the margins of our awareness.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:24 (five years ago) link
they have never experienced that face/smirk/stare at that distance before
*You mean from wee nyaff who thinks he's gallus and is lucky he's no' gettin' chibbed?
(*jim in vancouver can translate that for you)
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:29 (five years ago) link
that's vancouveran?
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:30 (five years ago) link
The first time I saw the video I did actually say to my partner "oh this kid has never been punched in the face before."
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:30 (five years ago) link
(xp) from the time before jim was in vancouver
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:33 (five years ago) link
how many people have been punched in the face, like percentage?
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:34 (five years ago) link
i def haven't
Who would punch you in the face?
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:35 (five years ago) link
i can think of a few ilxors through the years
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:35 (five years ago) link
irl i am pretty beloved though
i have been, although i dodged a bit so never got the full brunt of it. majority of my friends growing up - in lanarkshire, scotland - were either beaten up or stabbed before they turned 20
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:36 (five years ago) link
xpost Do you get that look on your face, especially after saying something rude or grabbing them and invade their space to make them even more uncomfortable.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:37 (five years ago) link
that sentence was jumbly ^^^
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:38 (five years ago) link
i followed it. yeah, the way that kid was acting is not how i act.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:39 (five years ago) link
still, i didn't learn not to do that from getting punched in the face.
my brother, who runs a restaurant in the area, is spending his day off doing the family "angry crank" thing at the cardinal (something along the lines of "the entire point of sending kids to catholic schools is to INCULCATE THEM WITH MORAL VALUES, these children are your responsibility")
god bless him, because the only people these types ever listen to are angry white men
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 00:45 (five years ago) link
is there a reason
at all
why dan i would in two swipes in a row at
mordy
utilise two very explicitly
nazi
references
is there
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:20 (five years ago) link
cos heres the thing
you want to be very fucking innocent looking yourself if thats an innocent mistake imo
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:21 (five years ago) link
I'm not sure what you're on about, but two very explicit Nazi refs are because these little fucking CHUDs are very explicitly Nazis, so it's fucking annoying to see folks absolving them because they happen to be slightly below the age of 18.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:37 (five years ago) link
hey, here's some more from the same kids that day. I'm sure the nation of islam or whatever forced them to look up from their rosaries and harass these women, too
The Covington Catholic boys harrassed my friends and I before the incident with Nathan Phillips even happened. I'm tired of reading things saying they were provoked by anyone else other than their own egos and ignorance 🤦🏼♀️ pic.twitter.com/utdPFii92D— linds (@roflinds) January 21, 2019
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:42 (five years ago) link
*takes massive shit on social media*
― buzza, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:43 (five years ago) link
notwithstanding you being annoyed
i dont think anyone on ilx is that stupid-
and i think weve had some real fuckin bozos like-
that they would not be sure what im on about
so yeah
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:44 (five years ago) link
Dmac otm
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 03:59 (five years ago) link
your haikus aren't as subtle as you think. you're right, we've had some real fuckin bozos
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:11 (five years ago) link
attempts to explain-away his behaviour
there's a world of difference between an explanation and an excuse.
just from looking at his expression in the videos, I'd say he was riding an emotional wave that was partway between the visceral fear that he was going to get into a fist fight for acting like a fuckhead and exhilaration that he was getting away with that shit in front of his howling and admiring peers.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:26 (five years ago) link
xp sorry for my poetic subtlety obscuring my point
your jew-baiting of mordy makes you look a total cunt itt
let me know if thats too floral for you
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:29 (five years ago) link
baiting mordy on ilx is how some people stand up against harassment, give him a break
― the late great, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:37 (five years ago) link
I see I should've read further in the quisling definition.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:37 (five years ago) link
your jew-baiting of mordy
seriously, fuck you
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:40 (five years ago) link
Ahh, the Discourse
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:41 (five years ago) link
when I am perturbed at something on ilx, I always ask myself "what would a total cunt do?"
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:44 (five years ago) link
hmm either the penny or the mask has dropped anyways
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:44 (five years ago) link
The word of today is "overcorrection".
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:47 (five years ago) link
Thanks for the catcall vid btw. Not shocked
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:49 (five years ago) link
xpost I misread that as "we've had some real fuckin bezos."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:50 (five years ago) link
So glad some MAGA dudes tore us apart.
On the plus side we'll die someday
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 04:52 (five years ago) link
Lot of posts so I may well have missed it upthread but isnt"
"Initially the wrong guy got identified and attacked online"
way more important than
"actually i saw it from a different angle and now i have a different viewpoint"
― anvil, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 07:15 (five years ago) link
I think I was overcorrecting a bit because of how much I dislike dox/call-out culture; the kids were definitely mocking Phillips in a group when he was there for the Indigenous Peoples' March. How was the wrong person identified and attacked, though? Hadn't heard of that.
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 09:31 (five years ago) link
So i only actually really noticed because when it popped up on twitter the kid was identified as a "Michael Hodge" (which is a familiar name to me for completely unrelated reasons). Then when i read the quote from the kid it was a completely different name. Might not have noticed otherwise
https://twitter.com/search?q=michael%20hodge&src=typd
1) Yesterday was supposed to be a day of celebration for my middle brother Alex, who got married last night. Instead my family had to deal with the fallout of my youngest brother #MichaelHodge being falsely accused for standing & smiling in front of an indigenous man with a drum— Andrew Hodge (@PikePlaceTechie) January 20, 2019
This stuff has me second guessing too - also didn;t something similar happen with the Charlottesville murderer (another kid was misidentified first who was in another state at the time)
― anvil, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:37 (five years ago) link
Collateral damage is to be expected and totally acceptable as long as the vigilante mob has its heart in the right place.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:40 (five years ago) link
Anyway, can we get a Levinasian in here to better parse that bottomless face?
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:42 (five years ago) link
Damage? They'll be dining out on that story for years to come.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:44 (five years ago) link
x-post: You spent yesterday complaining about people jumping to conclusions based on you reading a lawyer-written press release that's basically been completely debunked, and yet you just keep on as if nothing has happened, and you don't see the hypocrisy?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:46 (five years ago) link
Was that one meant for me? Because the only thing I've been complaining about is the disproportionate response to a dumb kid doing exactly what's expected of him within the context of his toxic community. I'm not interested in the angles or whatever, and I don't even remotely condone that kid's behaviour. I'm just appalled at some people's complacency towards call-out culture, especially when it involves a fucking 16 year old. YMMV.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:50 (five years ago) link
I think there should be consequences for his low-key white supremacist school and (I assume) at least 95% of the adult population of Park Hills, Kentucky. But making an example out of the kid based on a viral video is beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:53 (five years ago) link
doing exactly what's expected of him within the context of his toxic community
Not loving this tbh.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:57 (five years ago) link
I can assure you, it's not complacency. Kids like that beat me up when I was younger. They harassed my girlfriend. They still cheer as people send me threats, or write about how I should go to a mental institution, or that I am a white knight psycho rapist, for writing about women in film. I know kids like that, and I know those kind of toxic communities, and I assure you once again, it's not complacency. I've thought about it a lot. I've had to. It's not a passtime for me, it's been forced into my life. And I assure you as well, that for 90% of people who went off on that kid, it was not complacency, it was a reaction to something they've never ever asked for, and never wanted in their lives. And it kinda pisses me off that you call it complacency, as if it's just an abstract thing for us.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 10:59 (five years ago) link
I, too, have been on the receiving end of a sociopathic gang of teenagers not unlike those depicted in that video. I bumped into my would-be tormentors a few years after we graduated from high school and – lo and behold! – they'd cleaned up their act and started behaving like decent human beings, even without the benefit of mass online shaming. I wasn't exactly blameless throughout those years either, and I am glad that my (our) hormone-fuelled idiocy wasn't broadcast to the whole world, be it 'merely' as a symbol or a meme.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:20 (five years ago) link
Good for you, but I can't use that for anything. As late as this summer I saw people on facebook asking if anyone knew where I lived, so that they could... discuss... something I'd written with me. Not everybody grows out of this, I'll figure out how to handle it on my own, thank you very much. And you might disagree, but don't you dare call it 'complacency.'
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:25 (five years ago) link
I at least grew up in a context where this kind of behaviour would have been deemed repugnant, and when kids crossed the (racist, sexist) line, they were taken to task for it. So if you're given the chance to know better and don't jump on it (sounds like this applies to those people you describe), tough luck, I've no qualms about others calling you out on your shit. But how are those kids in Park Hills, KY supposed to learn anything when burdened with such 'educators' as theirs? Who is primarily responsible for their aggressive conceitedness?
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:30 (five years ago) link
Seriously, though, I'm sorry you've had to go through that shit, Fred. Those guys can go fuck themselves.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:32 (five years ago) link
― anvil, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 7:15 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I honestly don't get people who take the position that this other CovCath student being misidentified as the kid in the video and being attacked = a bad thing, but the actual kid in the video being correctly identified and attacked = a good thing? Given that the ire is more about how he looks and what he represents than anything he as an individual actually did, what difference does it make? Presumably if the wrongly identified kid had happened to have been at the march rather than at a family wedding then these same people would be calling for him to be doxxed along with the other kids, would think that he bears collective responsibility along with the rest of the students etc?
― soref, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:36 (five years ago) link
i have no idea , but a necessary consequence of doxxing and misidentifying is that it is not possible to get 'the right guy' when there is a rush to get "a guy"
― anvil, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link
I’d have clipped the wee nyaff’s lug. As far as what should happen, I would suspend the kids involved, and make them sit through some detention speeches about native Americans. I’d maybe fire the chaperones. The social media blowout? Yeah, it’s kind of strong, and maybe counter productive. But I understand each individuals reaction - but there is an emergent punishment which is harsher than most individuals support. Still, fuck these kids, and especially fuck their teachers.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:04 (five years ago) link
Alt-right is bad. This kid is bad. His teachers are bad. Online hate mobs shaming people are bad. Twitter is bad. 2019 is bad.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:10 (five years ago) link
I don't think anyone on here has supported doxxing anyone?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:15 (five years ago) link
can't believe we're not discussing charlie kirk getting benched at cedars sinai
― whoa is me (stevie), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:16 (five years ago) link
It depends on what people mean by doxxing. I’d support identifying him for his school to deal with, but not with the total unveiling on social media.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:51 (five years ago) link
I guess I mainly mean, is this stuff likely to move the kid back towards humanity, or cement his position on the far right. Given that moving towards the centre would involve admitting fault (which people don’t like) it seems. Likely to harden his heart.
Of course, it may still be worthwhile if it discourages others who would be coal supporters of the far right. I don’t know.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
Doxxing and call out/cancelation culture could be an entirely other thread. Every single time there is a horrible event they always misidentify people (on purpose). I don't get it but I also don't do anything in my life for clicks.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 12:58 (five years ago) link
*insert promising swim career trope*
Doxxing and calling out/cancelling is two very different things to me. There's putting pressure on Covington to deal with this - they must know who he is - and then there's trying to figure out/publicize his information on your own. Don't doxx, don't ever doxx, no matter what anyone does. Just don't doxx.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:06 (five years ago) link
I think there may be hypothetical situations where doxxing is okay. But that’s another discussion, I guess.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:09 (five years ago) link
Btw, sad lol:
Glenn Greenwald went on Laura Ingraham's Fox News show last night to run interference for Trump-loving kids who harassed a Native American elder pic.twitter.com/i7W1ersK3O— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) January 22, 2019
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:10 (five years ago) link
identifying a fella misbehaving himself in public is not, to my understanding, doxxing
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:11 (five years ago) link
Discussing hypothetical situations where it's okay to doxx is like discussing the trolley problem imo. Sure, hypothetically, but it's so hypothetical that discussing it is a waste of time.
Anything that is digging up more information than is in the video is doxxing to me. Putting his face out there, sure, he did it himself. Saying it's Covington, already known, they're chanting their songs. Figuring out his name, nope.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:14 (five years ago) link
xpost, yeah they are completely different things, people keep bringing up two and then I added in cancelation culture because I remember people also getting antsy about it a little bit ago. I don't really have interest in discussing them because they are pretty black and white.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:16 (five years ago) link
Also, and I don't know if I even have to make this clear, but identifying Charlottesville protestors was ok. They were explicitly making a statement about what they were personally for, so at that point they'd given up their right to anonymity. So if the story had been that Nathan Silvermann is in the March for Life, sure, he was there to show he supported March for Life. Nathan Silvermann did something stupid on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, nope, that's doxxing.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:24 (five years ago) link
― Frederik B, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 1:14 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
any neat distinction between doxxing and 'putting his face out there' seems dubious to me? if big media outlets are doing pieces like this:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/maga-teenager-native-american-veteran-harassment-smile.html
then of course that's going to lead to his name and personal details being spread around, of course it going to lead to him an his family getting harrassed, even if slate or whoever doesn't actually print his name
― soref, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:25 (five years ago) link
identifying Charlottesville protestors was ok
Ah, we agree then. For some reason I thought you were making an absolute statement about doxxing...
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
It's so crazy to me that there are kids that willingly wear MAGA hats.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:33 (five years ago) link
The point is, identifying Charlottesville protestors wasn't doxxing.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:35 (five years ago) link
Don't ever push more information than you've been given. But the whole point of marching is to show that real people support what you're marching for. So by marching you've given up your right to anonymity. After that, connecting the dots between who the marchers were, and all public information available, became okay. Figuring out private information was still not okay.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:38 (five years ago) link
how do you distinguish between 'public' and 'private' information, though? e.g. how would you categorise the twitter and facebook accounts of the students in the video, or pictures and captions from the school website etc?
― soref, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:43 (five years ago) link
I made this, don't fp me thx - Public Shaming C/D?
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:48 (five years ago) link
It's really not that hard to figure out if a facebook account is on private or public, and most other cases are about as easy.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 13:48 (five years ago) link
I don't think the public/private distinction holds a lot of the time, or that the idea of 'public' stands up to much scrutiny, just different degrees of privacy and control. ppl share a lot more when they don't think they're going to be under enormous scrutiny from strangers, it's not all fair game. saying you give up your anonymity/privacy by marching is only attractive when you're against the ppl protesting. the police in the UK were recently found to have reported disabled protestors to the department of work and pensions to see if mb they should have their benefits cut. just checking everything's in order with ppl who have voluntarily entered the public sphere, what's the big deal?
― ogmor, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 14:21 (five years ago) link
The problem here is putting pressure on work and pensions. That's never a right thing to do.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 14:34 (five years ago) link
there's no reason to trust authorities with information abt protestors
― ogmor, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 14:37 (five years ago) link
Always some muthafucka on the internet tellin me I ain’t seein what I’m seein. Little white bitches in red hats symbolizing the lowest impulses there are. Fuck em!!! https://t.co/68uZXrdvTz— Ron Perlman (@perlmutations) January 22, 2019
― j., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
How no? It seems like you're splitting things into 'good' doxxing an 'bad' doxxing, just so you can say you don't think doxxing is okay. It seems like the same kind of thing - people searching through facebook pages etc. to find and publish someone's identity. (To be clear, I support doxxing fascists).
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:21 (five years ago) link
I am confused, Charlottesville protestors, we are talking about the identifying of people who committed crimes/hate crimes?
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:24 (five years ago) link
dude, I already explained it. I'm not going to repeat myself. It's not the same thing, for reasons I've already outlined.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:26 (five years ago) link
Doxxing is a good when done to people I don’t like and bad when done to people I do like, just like anything else, ppl act like this is an inconsistent stance to have but I don’t see why
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:27 (five years ago) link
it makes perfect sense.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:29 (five years ago) link
You're allowed to connect the dots between freely given information. A facebook-page is freely given information. If you go to a demonstration, that's freely given information. Someone snaps a video of you doing something shitty on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, that is not freely given information. And there must be a better term than 'freely given information', but I don't know it.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:36 (five years ago) link
It’s a kid
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:38 (five years ago) link
This is like when a fellow teacher alerted me that some kids tweeted that they hated me because my pop quiz was too hard. It felt 1.) dumb and 2.) kind of like a violation, because the kids didn’t intend for me to see their angry cactus emojis
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:39 (five years ago) link
Can we move this to the thread that was just created for it
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:42 (five years ago) link
I think I hate the word 'kid'.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
Fine
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
He was not an adult. He is not allowed legally to buy cigarettes.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:44 (five years ago) link
You can't do anything in the US until you're 28 or sumthin '.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
^ great John Mellencamp song
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:49 (five years ago) link
Someone bought him that hat with someone's money, though. And he put it on on purpose.
If you go to a public demonstration where the point is to be aggressively present and visible, then wear a Trump hat, whose point is to be aggressively present and visible, then get in someone's face (whatever the context), which is very aggressively present and visible, then do it in front of dozens of cameras, then no one can be surprised when your identity is revealed. (This goes for this choad and Charlottesville MAGA people alike.) Further, when you hire a PR firm to try to spin things your way, that is the opposite of seeking privacy and anonymity, let alone playing the "innocent" card. That is bringing *more* attention to yourself and trying to control the narrative to your benefit.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:49 (five years ago) link
You can't buy hats in Kentucky until you're 21
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:50 (five years ago) link
Pretty sure you get a trucker had in the hospital, along with those cute newborn blankets.
I was struck by a Britney Spears show I had to review years ago. She was going through her "I'm not a girl, yet not a woman" shtick, and I remember writing, at the time, come on, there are people younger than you dying in Iraq, your coy act is stupid.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
Trucker *hat*, ugh. And I love Kentucky, btw.
These kids/kidults/whatever are SO not going to have their lives ruined.
― resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:57 (five years ago) link
He's old enough to grasp the evil that lies at the heart of his community and hence old enough to rebel against his family, his teachers and his neighbours, having understood within himself – for these things spontaneously occur once you hit a certain age, especially when you're a millennial, i.e. wired to be woke – that his surroundings are all founded on heinous lies. Never mind that he lacks any firsthand experience of diversity, having been raised within a xenophobic bubble of white American mediocrity, he is privy to the same universal human consciousness as the rest of us. Indeed, we can all instinctively agree that his actions were wrong – our environment, the values we are taught to uphold, the ethical experience we've acquired over the years, all of these incidental details are swept away by our shared natural understanding of what is right and meet, which transcends both time and place.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:59 (five years ago) link
publicly acting the fucker is not a protected act
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
board description
― whoa is me (stevie), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:08 (five years ago) link
cogent point tho stevie!
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:09 (five years ago) link
Further, when you hire a PR firm to try to spin things your way, that is the opposite of seeking privacy and anonymity, let alone playing the "innocent" card. That is bringing *more* attention to yourself and trying to control the narrative to your benefit.
the PR thing seems totally counterproductive tbh, but I guess I can understand why you'd react that way if you had the money and your teenage son had suddenly become this weeks official internet hate figure. I feel like some people are underestimating how terrifying it would be in the moment if something like this happened to you, even if it did't have a significant long term impact on the course of your life?
(lots of ppl have been comparing the kid to Kavanaugh, and one area where this seems accurate is the bizarre overegging in the defence, if Kavanaugh had said "I admit I was sometimes a fratty asshole as a teen, but I never sexually assaulted anyone" more people would have bought that than him trying to present himself as a choirboy, the 'silent prayer' thing seemed similar?)
― soref, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:13 (five years ago) link
I didn't know who the dummy was until he hired a PR firm and revealed himself. The fact that his parents had the wherewithal to immediately hire and pay for a PR firm in the first place I think is part of the story. It's not about what's right or wrong, or owning up to that, it's about making sure your side of the story is the one that people believe, or believe enough to counter the prevailing narrative. Which is to say, using your money and privilege to change the discussion in your favor. Buying a big bouquet of "both sides do it."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:21 (five years ago) link
This thread is so weird. My fb, with a lot of oldschool ilxors, is firmly on the 'these kids were all terrible and stop apologizing for maga hat wearing anti-choice assholes' side.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:27 (five years ago) link
if only all life could be as homogeneous and acceptable as our curated echo chamber fb feeds
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
it could be if you wish hard enough.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
You mean like the fact that we tend to associate with people we like and not people we find terrible?
If that's an echo chamber so be it
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
Xpost
if every thread was a poll we wouldn't have to type as much and could find out who was on what side
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
Tribalism ftw.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
Jfc it isn't tribalism
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:30 (five years ago) link
i mean that if you find everyone agrees on contentious issues maybe you've just done an excellent job weeding out alternative opinions from your life. on ilx unless you employ a killfile that's harder to do. twitter and fb make it easy.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:30 (five years ago) link
Mordy is ilx’s #1 republican socializer
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:30 (five years ago) link
Not to mention contrarian opinions are still quite mild here – in the grand scheme of things, our disagreements are risible.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link
i don't think it's weird that you're carefully curated opinion factories are more in line with what you like to see than a place where you exert less control over the responses. i'm sure if we were fb friends yerac would've unfriended or unfollowed me a long time ago to preserve the cultivated garden.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link
I mean it is true, I did a very good job at weeding out benghazi torture porn memes on my fb.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:32 (five years ago) link
i probably do socialize with more republicans now than any other ilxor i'd guess since i live in a community where politics are a secondary identification at best and there aren't enough of us to splinter into even smaller groups. whereas if you don't belong to a tiny ancient religious sect you have the luxury of picking and choosing associates by who they voted for.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:32 (five years ago) link
that should probably be an xpost
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:33 (five years ago) link
I’m probably the least left of most of the people I know, they are all humoring me so far but it’s only a matter of time I’m sure
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:33 (five years ago) link
it is a discussion board afterall. if we abandon the value of people discussing things with some level of mutual trust and benefit of the doubt, and maybe the possibility of changing our minds we might as well not bother.
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
I think there's a fair point in not inviting total assholes into your consciousness or giving assholeishness more attention than you can avoid which is not necessarily the same as creating your own echo chamber
Obviously what constitutes assholeishness is up for debate
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:35 (five years ago) link
Idk about you but I don’t want to convince anyone I just type my opinions into the box for the dopamine rush
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:35 (five years ago) link
as a side note i'll never understand ppl who prefer a garden of agreement to dissent just bc it seems so boring to me. i already know what i think, what do i gain from seeing it replicated and echoed back to me? i'd prefer a thousand offensive opinions should bloom but at least i'm stimulated by a thought i haven't already had before than i'm trapped in some solipsistic political being john malkovichism ideological construct.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
I didn't mind seeing the thing hashed out on here. I wasn't sure whether to trust my initial reaction and it was useful to see some opposing takes.
― jmm, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
Hell yesterday some media sites started their "y'know, maybe these videos don't exonerate the kids" pivots. No majors, but Slate, Medium.
The whole rollout was essentially...
News: Reports from witnesses that a bunch of MAGA kids taunted Native Americans. Seems there was a dispute between boys and handful of Black men...not sure what about.
*new video*
Public: OMG LYING MEDIA! New context completely exonerates the kids.
"Uhh wait the vids don't disprove certain things, just don't confirm them all, and are largely zoomed in and missing lots of the action"
Public: nope, case closed! No new videos or testimony will be considered
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
yea I've definitely got some friends who are Republicans and most of 'em haven't deleted me from FB yet, but there's no interaction there because they either just don't comment about politics b/c they're sick of getting shouted down or they've gone full-blown into QAnon and share links from literal white supremacist blogs
― frogbs, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
you'd think it would diminish after 20k posts or so but every time it feels euphoric
xpost to silby
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
xxp to NV tbc the complaint or observation is surprise there's any dissent at all here on this thread. if the contention is that this dissent is "total assholes" well okay but i mean ppl are pretty polite here generally or at least i try to be.
no Mordy I didn't mean that I just think there is a level of "opinion" for any given individual that is so repugnant or dumb that one shouldn't feel obliged to seek it out
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:39 (five years ago) link
ok but that's a little off topic no? we're talking about fairly rational discourse here not just some odious degenerate explaining why blacks are dumb and jews control all the money.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
I think most people don't know how someone votes or what religion they follow, I know I don't. But somehow it all falls neatly a certain way these days (less so religion because I absolutely don't care what religion someone follows).
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:41 (five years ago) link
Yeah but "echo chamber" arguments veer in that direction sometimes I think. They're not the best critique of a failure to analyse your own core beliefs? Really I'm not sure that "debate" is the strongest method of self-critique at all
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:43 (five years ago) link
Have ya maybe considered that someone's environment dictates who they're friends with, dictates their social media feed?
I'm a 38 year old kid who spent most of his late teens and 20s around the Theatre Community. That's where most of my friends come from. So obviously they slant liberal and LGBTQ friendly. We argue about things all the time. I'm further left than most of them.
I also have a lot of friends outside of that community. I don't screen for political beliefs before I'll allow a friendship. But I won't just add randos on social media either. Usually people i know IRL. This includes conservative friends. But it stands to reason that I'm friends with more left leaners, y'know. Cos those are the people i see the most in my daily life.
I can't remember the last time I saw a knockdown drag out battle on someone's wall that didn't begin "who the fuck are you, anyway? I don't remember adding you"
I have had two Trumpers on my wall show their asses. One posted a huge, idiotic post defending the Charlottesville Unite the Righters and bashing Antifa. He was a high school friend, I said "k maybe I didn't know you after all" and defriended him and he has spent the last two years whining to my IRL pals that I blocked him over a disagreement (you say potato, I say "hate speech").
The other shows his ass and is rude to friends all the time but I didn't dare defriend him cos i know him IRL and ohhh the whining.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:48 (five years ago) link
My original weird thread statement was really more about how they turned this into a total rashomon event when it was pretty clear from the beginning.The word gaslit is being thrown around so much but it was starting to feel like that here. And it's fine to get all debate clubby but ilx is pretty male dominated these days so whatever opinion I have I am going to amplify it more.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:48 (five years ago) link
Xxxposts
mordy, if you want to be my fb friend all you had to do was ask.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
well tell me - do u do that thing where you post some daily outrage link to slate or salon and just like one word "THIS" (this is the ilxor fb house style) bc we could become friends but i'd have to unfollow u immediately.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:52 (five years ago) link
someone can support feminism without supporting a carceral state or shaming. saying 'oh some men are here' doesn't make you automatically more left-leaning than them. a true discussion of our relative privileges in relation to each other would require a deeper analysis of our actual lives than most can be bothered with - ideally we should probably avoid assumptions from that sphere.
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:53 (five years ago) link
And it's fine to get all debate clubby but ilx is pretty male dominated these days so whatever opinion I have I am going to amplify it more.
w/ affection i say this, u strike me as the kind of person who is happy to share their opinion no matter what the gender makeup of the crowd
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
i very rarely post on my own wall but when i do start shit once a year or so i get a little thrill watching my "friend" count go down.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
xpost I post twice a year and I am over a year behind. I actually do unfriending maintenance quarterly but mostly because I don't know them in real life and they never post/comment and I like to keep my friend count low.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
Yeah I am opinionated but mostly because I am usually right. Ha!
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
I didn't know who the dummy was until he hired a PR firm and revealed himself. The fact that his parents had the wherewithal to immediately hire and pay for a PR firm in the first place I think is part of the story. It's not about what's right or wrong, or owning up to that, it's about making sure your side of the story is the one that people believe, or believe enough to counter the prevailing narrative. Which is to say, using your money and privilege to change the discussion in your favor. Buying a big bouquet of "both sides do it."― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:21 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:21 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Was thinking about this last night and this morning, that part of what "that look" on the student's face is communicating is that his actions have never had consequences for him (though they may for others). And his family being able to hire a Republican/GOP-related PR firm to protect him from consequences this time around is perfectly in line with his privilege. If nothing else, he probably has a job already lined up for him at the Federalist Society in about 10 years.
So yes, his arrogance is itself offensive, on top of his actions, and it probably does trigger a lot of people who have been oppressed by little princes of the world with that confidence of immunity. It's a shitty system. We should dismantle it and build a better one.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
tbc his actions in this case are standing still and smirking afai/wk he did not say or do anything else
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:59 (five years ago) link
i may not agree with your smirk but i will defend to the death half-heartedly online your right to make it
make a smirker great again
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
could be the shape of his skull
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
What we really should be talking about is L'il Ben Shapiro delivering his March for Life speech as a podcast episode and reading live advertisements to the attending crowd. And then losing advertisers.
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:28 (five years ago) link
yes IO is otm -- the kid needs work, but the society that produced him needs an overhaul
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:28 (five years ago) link
At the time, Nintendo of America had strict censorship policies concerning what sort of content could be depicted or referenced in any game published for a Nintendo system. In the original Japanese version, the DREK "empire" is actually the resurrected Nazi regime, but this was changed so as to fit the prohibition against political advocacy, racial and or ethnic stereotyping.
Yet, some of the changes were more complete than others. The final boss, Smirk, is clearly a cyborg version of Adolf Hitler and a file retrieved by Togo during a base infiltration in Greece retains a swastika on it, which is visible in the player's inventory area. Nintendo required that Golgo had his profession changed to spy rather than assassin, per its prohibition on graphic violence and gore.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 17:32 (five years ago) link
NOA's smirk
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:16 (five years ago) link
just sharing the Light of the Lord
Newest video to surface of the Covington kids shows one of them yelling to a group of girls “IT’S NOT RAPE IF YOU ENJOY IT!” Fuck anyone who is still defending them. Catholic Schools in the south like Covington are incubators for vile racism and misogyny.pic.twitter.com/j65KhqWeaG— Andrew Wortman (@AmoneyResists) January 22, 2019
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:21 (five years ago) link
I hope no-one is planning to single out the poor child who shouted “IT’S NOT RAPE IF YOU ENJOY IT!” for any special attention - that would be disgraceful.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link
One thing after another
― jmm, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:24 (five years ago) link
please single out that child so you can demonstrate you understand the difference between a smirk and verbal abuse
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:24 (five years ago) link
this has been one of the most pointless ilx clusterfucks in quite some time
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:25 (five years ago) link
We could spend the rest of our lives watching footage of stupid teenagers saying and doing stupid things tbh.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:25 (five years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:25 (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ah cmon theres been fuck all competition!
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:27 (five years ago) link
Make ILX Clusterfuck Again
― Infidels, Like Dylan In The Eighties (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:29 (five years ago) link
― soref, Monday, January 21, 2019 11:01 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
For Sandmann and his colleagues, their actual intentions and motivations seem vital to any account of what took place. But not only can we never really know what those were, they also don’t matter once the original video has been shot and shared. That short clip shows a young man with a smirk, wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat, appearing to stare down a Native elder: Simply describing the scene, at this political and cultural moment, suggests a racist threat.That’s not just because the internet makes it easy to come to simple and quick conclusions, and to spread those answers as truth before verification. It’s also because such an edit almost seems purpose-built to service that conclusion. It juxtaposes an almost perfect avatar for apparent white nationalism, maga hat and all, with the apparent cultural frailty of a brown-skinned victim carrying out an act of indigenous humility. Whether Sandmann and Phillips are telling the truth or not matters only marginally—the image and the clip take on a life of their own, reproducing a conflict that viewers have already been primed to seek out by the overall political situation and their place in it.
That’s not just because the internet makes it easy to come to simple and quick conclusions, and to spread those answers as truth before verification. It’s also because such an edit almost seems purpose-built to service that conclusion. It juxtaposes an almost perfect avatar for apparent white nationalism, maga hat and all, with the apparent cultural frailty of a brown-skinned victim carrying out an act of indigenous humility. Whether Sandmann and Phillips are telling the truth or not matters only marginally—the image and the clip take on a life of their own, reproducing a conflict that viewers have already been primed to seek out by the overall political situation and their place in it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/viral-clash-students-and-native-americans-explained/580906/
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:42 (five years ago) link
― gray say nah to me (wins), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:42 (five years ago) link
they're going to WH to meet with Trump
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:52 (five years ago) link
Trump loves a pointless distraction that outrages the libtards
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
amazing how the internet always takes the bait
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link
EXCLUSIVE on the new #LauraIngrahamPodcast — the Covington Catholic students threatened by the leftist internet mob will be meeting with @realDonaldTrump at the White House as early as tomorrow. @iTunes @PodcastOne— Laura Ingraham (@IngrahamAngle) January 22, 2019
― resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:58 (five years ago) link
keep that outrage about some totally insignificant bullshit going everybody! not like there are any more important things to worry about or anything
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:00 (five years ago) link
I think I referenced this on the other thread, but twitter and using anonymous avatars as a newssource/barometer of sentiment is just bad bad bad.
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2019/01/17/takedown-gillette-advert-backlash-fascinating-take-media-works/?fbclid=IwAR24OyZygP7lZlTSJBY0TkNkToUzLduTLQv_OYBsWB92-OrQwsO30cqAEps
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:01 (five years ago) link
Jesus Christ. One more strike and you’re out deems― gray say nah to me (wins), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 18:42 (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the fuck are u to judge me maannnnn
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/22/why-trump-is-overjoyed-covington-student-controversy/?utm_term=.8776c88832ea
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:10 (five years ago) link
let that be a lesson to all the young people out there, if you wanna meet the President of the United States all you gotta do is bully an elderly Native American man
― frogbs, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:14 (five years ago) link
thats p consistent with yr historical ideals tbf
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:14 (five years ago) link
look at him, so destroyed
Sitting down with Nicholas Sandmann - the student at the center of the protest controversy at the Lincoln Memorial. Airs tomorrow on @TODAYshow pic.twitter.com/oSb8ljunQN— Savannah Guthrie (@SavannahGuthrie) January 22, 2019
― resident hack (Simon H.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:14 (five years ago) link
this constant bickering about what it's appropriate to be outraged about is one of the main reasons i don't go near the big us politics threads
the other reason being, oddly enough, a constant focus on insignificant minutae
seriously i can't even remember the last time i cared about how trump and his supporters think or feel
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:15 (five years ago) link
The smirk works.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:15 (five years ago) link
JFC @ the today show thing
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:23 (five years ago) link
🎶 Hello, darkness, my old friend 🎶 pic.twitter.com/QHq3TFfRB6— Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) January 22, 2019
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:25 (five years ago) link
― gray say nah to me (wins), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:27 (five years ago) link
the young smirks
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:32 (five years ago) link
Shakey, I'd say if we collectively only had the capacity to focus on any one thing at a time (which may be true on a case-by-case basis) that this nonsense is an inconsequential distraction compared to bigger and more impactful issues. But, well...it's massively fucked up and gross and I hope everyone involved in venerating abject villainy like its some kind of all-American aspiration just like fucking spontaneously melts into a protoplasmic ooze and runs down a storm drain.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:32 (five years ago) link
this is an inconsequential distraction compared to almost anything else one could care to mention including other extremely trivial distractions!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:33 (five years ago) link
Smirkers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chins.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:35 (five years ago) link
why focus on this culture war bullshit when we can focus on every minute tidbit of information - real and imagined - from the mueller investigation?
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:36 (five years ago) link
xxpost I disagree inasmuch as being a shitbag and having Daddy pull out his checkbook to fix your shitbaggery is completely pedestrian and inconsequential but then subsequently getting to go on the Today Show and win a free trip to the WH just seems to be a hard nudge towards widespread acceptance of sociopathy as a way of life.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:39 (five years ago) link
does anyone here want a visit to this WH
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:40 (five years ago) link
If someone has insider knowledge on the precise moment that Trump chokes to death on a wingbone, then yes.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:41 (five years ago) link
Seriously, fuck that kid. Need anymore proof that he's an asshole?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 19:57 (five years ago) link
what's insanely maddening about this to me is that every day the government remains closed trump's base support erodes. the left has important agendas (climate, economic) that it could easily win broad popular support for but instead it engages in these trivial worthless battles that can accomplish nothing but galvanize the opposition. this culture wars bullshit has been going on since i was a child. ok obv there's only so much you can do bc the right can generate outrage over anything even without a dance party but to willingly become a dance partner in this suggests total psychosis. it's almost as if (could it be) that the left is equally about tribal politics as the right and instituting an agenda with broad consensus is not as excited or worthwhile as trying to win online victories over your cultural opponents. i would not be surprised if the twitter account that initially leaked this story was a pro-right wing op meant to change the conversation. and of course us bunch of idiots couldn't help but bite bc we see a catholic white male smirking at a native american and we lose our fucking minds. nb that i don't expect fred to understand this so plz don't reply with whatever you're revving up - i know you think prosecuting identity politics is the most important part of a society. but if you have other major issues the attention paid to this bullshit can't help but be frustrating.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 20:56 (five years ago) link
I don't think this has "changed the narrative" at all. The news is still focused on the shutdown and (vaguely) the SOTU speech. It's social media that's freaked out about this.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:02 (five years ago) link
i hope you're right. i almost but forgot to include a caveat that i hope this is all overblown and the real issues (the shutdown, the fundamental issues facing our economy, environment, etc) would continue to take centerstage. otoh the right has been using bullshit culture war wedges to peel off support for their other regressive agendas for so long and it always works. it's hard to pitch ppl your ideas that are meant to help them if they don't believe you have their best interests in mind and the culture wars stuff is designed to poison that well.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:04 (five years ago) link
... and ILX. (xp) By the way, over here, I've seen absolutely no sign of this story on FB.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:05 (five years ago) link
xp...idk about TV but the lead story on cnn.com this morning was basically bragging about having tipped off Twitter to the account where an abbreviated clip of the incident initially spread like wildfire and how Twitter subsequently suspended the account, which was totally insane.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:05 (five years ago) link
the left has important agendas (climate, economic) that it could easily win broad popular support for but instead it engages in these trivial worthless battles that can accomplish nothing but galvanize the opposition.
this x 10000
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:06 (five years ago) link
xxp Wow, really? My feed is packed with it, like every post.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:08 (five years ago) link
A writer that I like has been sorting through what the actual goal is with this incident/battle. And what are people achieving when they defend or minimize it. We don't want this kid, kids like this on the Supreme Court, in Congress, in power. But generally, we can't win any battle when people are still telling us we don't know what racial intimidation that white supremacy created looks like. It gives me pause because saying it's 'just a smirk' is in sharp contrast to intuition that tells people not to accept that drink, not to follow them himstairs, not to get into that car...
But whatever, we only have 2 more days of it until it's a 2025 jeopardy question.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:08 (five years ago) link
I take a look at the_donald from time to time, they have been almost silent for the shutdown so far, just trump tweets and generic maga memes, but in the last couple of days they have been loving this story. You can draw your own conclusions from that.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:12 (five years ago) link
I'm sure they are jerking off to it. Who cares.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:14 (five years ago) link
i think the "unconscious bias" / institutionalized white supremacy conversations are losers tbh. when you can point to violence and hate ppl can't ignore it. when it's hidden and you demand ppl mea culpa and recognize their own privileges benefiting from the invisible oppression system etc - ppl won't listen. mcwhorter was writing about this recently - how a lot fo these battles are just unwinnable. he argued that we should work on positive programs to improve parity (in income disparity, in education, in home ownership, etc) and stop with the privilege / unconscious bias / microaggression arguments.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:16 (five years ago) link
ppl can't ignore it
yes obv some ppl can. but for overt acts enough cannot.
I was thinking about that while reading, of all things, a francise genre fiction book the other day. The political approach was not to point out bad things and ascribe them to a particular party, but to say "this isn't us, is it?" in solidarity. As soon as you say "this is right-wing hate" you lose the ability to say "this is hate in our society, we're not allowing that, right?"
but the problem is that we're projecting this shit on to a situation that probably made even less sense to the people there, and we have those damn hats that clearly align with the leader of a political party that stands with him
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:21 (five years ago) link
I'm fine with people fighting whatever battles they want with their own souls and for the souls of others over social media, but in the meantime policy has to be used as a tool to make material improvements in people's lives.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:21 (five years ago) link
I am just very against people telling more marginalized groups of people how they should feel or what they should focus on. Like when people say culture wars, or identity politics or supporting feminism I don't even think of it in those terms, I think of it as "stop being trash people".
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:24 (five years ago) link
I'm probably asking something that is going to result in more complexity, but regarding the incident at hand: - the kentucky catholic kids were in DC for the pro-life march - the indigenous people were there for their march - do we know what the black israelite group was there for?
I will plead total ignorance about the latter group and read up on their history/stances a little but I still haven't figured that one out
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:25 (five years ago) link
black israelites just randomly show up at stuff in major cities all the time. Presumably they were just there to promote their weird ideology and troll people.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:26 (five years ago) link
here is the mcwhorter article fwiw. i don't think he's someone ilxors generally like / agree with however he's imo a v bright guy (esp in his field which is linguistics not politics, he has a great slate podcast on the former that is imho worth checking out): https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/why-third-wave-anti-racism-dead-end/578764/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:26 (five years ago) link
xp thanks, I kind of figured but wasn't going to make any suppositions
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:27 (five years ago) link
Black Israelites show up in lots of urban centers to harangue and troll people. it's what they do and they've been doing it for decades.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:27 (five years ago) link
yeah there are always 3-4 black israelites randomly in NYC. You ignore, sidestep, walk faster.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:27 (five years ago) link
re black israelites i guess i shouldn't be surprised ppl don't know who they are but if you're a overt jew who lives in a big city you've probably been harassed by them before. i have on 3 separate occasions (they yelled things like "fake jew" and "white devil" at me).
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:27 (five years ago) link
ftr my own take here (or some other thread?? idk) was along the lines of not bothering with these minor symbolic battles. at present this minor symbolic battle has taken up a lot more social media oxygen than the latest SCOTUS decision on transgender troops has, for example.
i do think elevating these kids to villain status gives them a bit more added clout on the right, vs the positive changes that could be made by focusing on what is needed to get done. my suggestion here isn't the same as "this isn't a big problem" it's more like "fix the problem with solutions and pushing forward with positive energy." i think so much time is wasted on hating the right wing*, sure fuck em but don't spend time fucking with them. they do not give a single shit and the scales will not fall from their eyes.
*if you're a member of a group actively fucked with by the right wing, i think a lot of the movements have been extremely positive. i think the social media battles are often just counterproductive.
― omar little, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:28 (five years ago) link
yerac, "stop being trash people" is def not a persuasion you learnt in rhetoric class
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:29 (five years ago) link
- do we know what the black israelite group was there for?
they don't believe native americans are native to america. they think they are on the lost tribes of israel, the tribe of gad
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:30 (five years ago) link
"one of"
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:31 (five years ago) link
like "the left" is some monolithic entity and our responses are determined by a central committee somewhere
for me coalition politics is that people have different priorities and different things that are important to them and i support the priorities of other people when i can. or at least refrain from openly browbeating people who aren't listening to me anyway about how they're doing things all wrong and the BAD GUYS are going to WIN
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:31 (five years ago) link
I don't believe in persuasion anymore; bullying bigots until they shut up has a track record of success
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:32 (five years ago) link
bullied this bigot right into the national spotlight, a major television appearance and a visit to the white house. maybe the strategy is that if we give him all the platforms he'll eventually get bored?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:33 (five years ago) link
Not this one but you play the odds with these things
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:34 (five years ago) link
look i know it's unpopular to tell marginalized ppl that you disagree with their strategy - even if they aren't all marginalized people but some and even if other marginalized people agree with you. however, there are positive programs that would have huge impact on marginalized communities that don't include picking fights with alt-righters or waging cultural wars. they do include things like prison reform, or measures to increase household wealth in their communities, or raising the minimum wage, or legislation that could reduce police violence (like mandatory cams). there are lots of policy options for every member of our coalition that are positive worthwhile steps. i'm not saying their pain and suffering is unimportant. i'm saying that this particular way of addressing it is unproductive esp compared to the alternatives.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:35 (five years ago) link
I think that perceiving this overblown clickbait crap as "the left" isn't useful when there are so many people who are working with solid stances on particular issues and out there trying to get things done
the two things I concentrate on are how to elevate particular issues I care about and the ways we can convince politicians at a local, regional, and national level to advance those positions without diluting them in the name of compromise or outright ignoring them due to other issues
the rest is mostly noise
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:37 (five years ago) link
Por qué no los dos
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:37 (five years ago) link
you're right mordy i'm sorry i booked this asshole on the today show, i'll cancel his booking right now
man the hell with playing the odds, if someone behaves badly i'm not going to politely ignore it on the off chance that bringing it up might embolden them, god knows i've spent enough of my life doing that shit and i am done with it.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:37 (five years ago) link
do it irl. don't join the online mob. you didn't shame this kid. you just temporarily made yourself feel better. you know when you'll know bullying a bigot made a difference? bc it was hard and scary to do and you forced yourself to do it because it was right.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:39 (five years ago) link
some of y'alls closest encounters with "the left" seem to in fact be encounters with a norms superego that only exists in cherry picked tweets and whatever tut tutting cultural marxist is in your head
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:39 (five years ago) link
xxp yeah kind of glued the two together: it's 1. finding issues to care about and advance 2. making sure those issues are brought up, undiluted
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:40 (five years ago) link
Thank u for dn hoos
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:40 (five years ago) link
xpost Yeah, I am confused about this. I assume that social media/ilx life is very different than what people may do in real life? Opining about maga teens is still part of the larger picture but it's an easy online amuse bouche topic.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:42 (five years ago) link
so you wish human beings behaved more like wonks and less like human beings?
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:42 (five years ago) link
"it's human nature" is normally a reactionary argument
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:42 (five years ago) link
I'd like to know who on ilx is actually "the online mob" because as far as I can tell we're trying to break down this particular thing in our somewhat insular community and no one is cheering on anyone calling for overt action *on the internet* against people we have no personal association with
Yerac otm, nobody is retweeting this thread and saying "go get them"
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:43 (five years ago) link
culture produces politics xp
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:43 (five years ago) link
Glad I read that McWhorter piece.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:45 (five years ago) link
i try not to join online mobs, this was a nice little pleasant thread for low-key schadenfreude until the morality police suddenly broke in and got on their high horse about how schadenfreude is wrong and how dare we etc etc
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:45 (five years ago) link
when people say 'the left' as a stand-in for whatever they're mad about today i call it a chait & switch
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:46 (five years ago) link
maybe. or maybe the opposite. often the political structure generates the culture, esp when NOP breaks down.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:46 (five years ago) link
I am not on twitter at all so I need to know specifically where these mobs are located. If they are virtual, regional, irish...
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:47 (five years ago) link
oh god, is steve porcaro alt-right too?!?
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:47 (five years ago) link
i can think of lots of cases where the political circumstances forced the range of cultural possibilities that were available.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:47 (five years ago) link
i'm pretty sure i did clarify who i meant and not the left as a whole so don't worry i wasn't talking about a h00s
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:48 (five years ago) link
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:45 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
respectfully, this is fucking dumb. the only reason this story was interesting to talk about was because it completely captivated the attention of the entire nation and led to the kid receiving death threats etc. national publications ran thinkpieces that posited the kid was a symbol of toxic privilge, "we've seen this face before," etc., it wasn't low leven schadenfreude
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:49 (five years ago) link
and obviously the kid is a disrespectful shit but it's still a weird norm, as a nation, to turn things like this into national stories.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:50 (five years ago) link
Like I said upthread, he should’ve avoided being photographed at the news
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:51 (five years ago) link
the morality police! do u remember when ppl would talk about being policed in their speech and like silby would bust in kool-aid man style and be like derisively "the police eh? did they cuff you and force you to jail poor thing?"
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:51 (five years ago) link
(sorry i don't remember if it was exactly you silby or just someone who sounded an awful lot like you)
lmao I only pull the kool-aid man shtick on here, it’s a release
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:52 (five years ago) link
In real life I don’t know anybody
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:53 (five years ago) link
idealism/principles vs effective strategy/optics is a v old split between the left and the centre, this argt will rage long after we're all dead
― ogmor, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:54 (five years ago) link
Results for politicians, principles for the people, imo
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:55 (five years ago) link
fwiw i disagree that this is a left/centrist split. i think that you can be a leftist and support openly and radically leftist solutions and still think that there are more and less effective ways to pursue them. the division between the left and center should be policy + goals not necessarily tone or strategy.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:55 (five years ago) link
u don't see AOC opining on this smirking shit (i hope i hope i hope)
i don't think it's idealistic or principled to join a pile on like this
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:58 (five years ago) link
the center (in our society at least) generally wants hawkish foreign policy, neoliberalism at home, austerity, capitalism, the status quo, etc, and uses tone policing to keep legitimate critiques of those things from progressing. but that doesn't mean that worrying about rhetoric and strategy is therefore centrist.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:00 (five years ago) link
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 21:47 (twenty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ey lady dont pin this shit on us
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:00 (five years ago) link
this thread existed before two days ago, if people want to have a discussion about toxic discourse online i guess that's their right but it seems to me rather like fighting fire with fuel
i guess i should stop posting here and let the rest of you work yourselves into a lather over the latest example of america being bullshit but i'm bored
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:01 (five years ago) link
People can bitch and actively do stuff at the same time. This is not new. (i read the article, he seems fine).
darra, I need you to tell us that we are being too american.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:01 (five years ago) link
couldn't tell xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:01 (five years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 9:46 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
its ourobouric, right, normative culture produces the bounds of political possibility but subcultures can introduce new political horizons built on refreshed norms ("the world is on fire and everything we love is going to burn unless we do something? we're not taking action fast enough, it doesn't matter what the old rules are, we've got to move big and fast") -- in a period of historic polarization it doesn't make any sense to worry about winning over the opposition, you mobilize your people and a segment of the persuadables to win on paper and as the change cements itself over time it becomes the new norm. all this is to say that
there are positive programs that would have huge impact on marginalized communities that don't include picking fights with alt-righters or waging cultural wars.
battles over norms matter, but the fact that people engage in them oughtn't be misunderstood as organized political activity when there are plenty of people actually doing political work while a thousand nobodies flood the phone line of the catholic school's principal
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:02 (five years ago) link
He does that every day and it makes no difference tbf.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:03 (five years ago) link
i don't think we disagree fwiw xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:04 (five years ago) link
if it were up to me we'd all be talking about rupa biswas's 1982 record "disco jazz" instead right now
but hoos otm, as usual
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:04 (five years ago) link
i'm not looking to discount the important work done by many tireless individuals - some of which seems like the most transformative political work from the left in the US i've seen in *my* lifetime.
well mordy complaining about people complaining about a topic he doesn't like was reminding me of darraghmac complaining about the america-centric view.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:05 (five years ago) link
i bet you were smirking when you wrote that ;)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:05 (five years ago) link
the split is a structural feature: it's the tension between those who are primarily motivated by what is right/moral etc. and those who are motivated by what is possible/practical. the conversation space/discourse is not determined by what's possible or practical, so the tension is inevitable; there will always be ppl saying "i agree with your goals but i think yr methods are counterproductive"
― ogmor, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:06 (five years ago) link
I was rolling my eyes. I wouldn't do that two feet from your face though. I'm not that kind of asshole. xpost
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:07 (five years ago) link
shit like this is perfect fodder for social media, and that drives trad media coverage. wailing against having it get attention is putting finger in a dyke.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:07 (five years ago) link
i think you're talking about a real split but not the one i'm talking about. when h00s says "battles over norms matter, but the fact that people engage in them oughtn't be misunderstood as organized political activity when there are plenty of people actually doing political work while a thousand nobodies flood the phone line of the catholic school's principal" he's talking about two groups of leftists, but one is doing actual political work and a thousand nobodies are flooding the phone line of the principal. if you criticize the latter you're not a centrist - maybe you just find the former more important. xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:08 (five years ago) link
If indigenous people are pissed about this, that is all I need to know.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:08 (five years ago) link
practical political action is obviously superior to transient moral outrage, but it's also brutally difficult and frequently demoralizing work, work that not everybody is cut out for. i tend to assume that people whose political engagement is rooted in transient moral outrage are not cut out for that kind of work. maybe i'm wrong, but even if i am i don't see hectoring as an effective mechanism for transforming people driven by transient moral outrage into people capable of practical political action.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:10 (five years ago) link
great thats all i need another wacky gimmick to play up to
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:11 (five years ago) link
idealism-realism is a spectrum and you will see arguments all the way along it. i think the argt really is that these acts are more like outbursts that are not part of any coherent political project, but the whole idea of 'real politics' or w/e is part of the ideology of practicality.
― ogmor, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:14 (five years ago) link
just by the by most of the topics being bandied about as being "ignored" (?) by "the left" (?) already have broad popular support. Medicare for All, action on climate change, higher marginal tax rates, all of it polls well among both Democrats and Republicans. Unfortunately, having just whipped the GOPs ass in historic fashion, and raring to get to work, the President purposefully shut down the government so they can't do anything.
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:32 (five years ago) link
well said
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:35 (five years ago) link
eliza, you put the word "ignored" in quotation marks but no one itt said it. what i said was that i was upset that the oxygen in the room was being consumed by this whereas there are these important projects that the left is working on and succeeding at and i worry that fighting these garbage battles will hurt those battles.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:37 (five years ago) link
practical political action is obviously superior to transient moral outrage, but it's also brutally difficult and frequently demoralizing work
I don't do much/any political organizing any more and I do miss it but I'm so burned out by the community-level service provision to front-line groups that I'm all used up. People are doing all kinds of things at all different levels to make change or even just ameliorate the harms/deliver the benefits of the system we're already working within.
People who have the energy for moral outrage can be directed to use that energy for something practical too--they can be/get organized. How can more of that happen?
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:43 (five years ago) link
I'm pretty sure nobody has ever come around to try to organize me which, like, I know I could figure out my own ways of helping, but I'd love to be organized.
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:49 (five years ago) link
fair enough, Mordy. I don't want to mischaracterize you but I also don't want people thinking the left has not already done the work to sell these ideas.
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:53 (five years ago) link
Never Been Canvassed, Starring Silby (would watch)
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 22:54 (five years ago) link
I’m an ingenue
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:05 (five years ago) link
Mordy, you consumed A LOT of that oxygen over several threads, and now you're upset about it all of a sudden?
Btw, the reason this backlashed was because at the first sign of trouble half of the media bend over backwards to apologize to the MAGA wearing psychos yelling rape threats at women, because it turned out some black men had said something as well, so of course the white boys were innocent. And yeah, that's a strategic mistake, plain and simple, whoever was trying to make something out of this should have considered whether cowards would stab them in the back. American media does this all the time, so it should have been foreseen.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:19 (five years ago) link
But nah. You can't win any political battle in the right way until you can win these types of battles. If you want Medicare4All to include funding for women's health you will have to fight every last participant in the March for Life, and how the fuck are you going to do that unless you're willing to fight them?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:21 (five years ago) link
If you want Medicare4All to include funding for women's health you will have to fight every last participant in the March for Life
not really, those kids can't vote
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:25 (five years ago) link
This tweet is so spot-on today. Not specifically towards anyone on this thread, but the whole debacle in general:
one of my favorite observations from ta-nehisi is this, written in the context of obama but very applicable in the present moment“Racism is not merely a simplistic hatred. It is, more often, broad sympathy toward some and broader skepticism toward others.”— b-boy bouiebaisse (@jbouie) January 22, 2019
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 23:25 (five years ago) link
I'm often annoyed by the 'anti-sjw' or 'anti-liberal' left, because we did that, the 20th century workers movements ended up ignoring or excluding women and people of colour; if there's one thing to learn from the left's failures in the past century, it's the necessity of (social) liberalism as an aim of the left. And I don't encounter it in real life - none of the activists or parties I've been involved in were 'anti-identitarian' - i.e. most of them support moves like all-women candidate lists, or seek to get representation from minority groups etc. It's just the online types who have no sense of the history of the movement that think they can ditch the (so-called) liberalism in favour of pure (naive)class politics.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 00:32 (five years ago) link
ever meet any voters
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 00:35 (five years ago) link
Sure, but their failure to understand the history of the labour movement is uderstandable.
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 00:40 (five years ago) link
and theres no risk supporting prison reform or raising the minimum wage might get turned into a culture war football by the right?
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:04 (five years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:08 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and some are ... the same people doing both
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
anyway weve been over this but my feeling is the culture war football isn't deflated by trying to pretend it doesn't exist or by playing whack-a-mole with i.e. racism just bc one racist kid goes viral, but that anti racism (again for example) clearly has to be an explicit part of any platform in which for example the figurehead of the republican party is an unapologetic racist
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:10 (five years ago) link
Wondering if some percentage of the population, same that can't tell a fake smile from a real one, is also incapable of telling a smug smirk from a friendly smile, said percentage also being heavily concentrated among reactionary conservatives
― Bnad, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:47 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZcVi5BA4
― j., Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:51 (five years ago) link
If you want Medicare4All to include funding for women's health you will have to fight every last participant in the March for Life, and how the fuck are you going to do that unless you're willing to fight them?
I also want Medicare4All to be available for this kid
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:03 (five years ago) link
pretty sure most all of us want the benefits of a more socialist society to benefit everybody, even the people we don't like
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:30 (five years ago) link
the MAGA wearing psychos yelling rape threats at women
Was there a source reporting this? I saw a video on Twitter where I can hear them yelling "MAGA" at a woman and she added that she could hear them yelling "build the wall".
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:53 (five years ago) link
telling people they’re racist isn’t really anti racism though if they’re not willing to listen
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:06 (five years ago) link
thats pretty much the history of racism in a nutshell though isnt it, people experiencing it describing something happening to them & everyone who isn't doing the racism basically saying they can't hear it
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:09 (five years ago) link
*everyone else who isn't
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:10 (five years ago) link
yes you don’t have to tell me
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:13 (five years ago) link
anyway i think people will find in the long run that “anti racism” tactics that make racists look like victims will turn off more persuadables than you manage to sweep up while mobilizing the faithful
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:16 (five years ago) link
“while” should say “by”
^
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:21 (five years ago) link
So this "Vietnam Vet" served as an electrician in....Kansas and Nebraska?
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:47 (five years ago) link
I guess in the CNN interview he does say "Vietnam times vet" and not Vietnam vet
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:48 (five years ago) link
xxp dont get me wrong i don't think this was a great day for anti racism or something (or great... three days).
but also like ... this wasnt an event controlled by political strategists or something. it was a media clusterfuck and most ppl i see aren't concerned w/ properly prosecuting the teen for racism as they are annoyed by media framing & exploitation of his racism for ratings
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:59 (five years ago) link
I'm reminded of the thread on smuggest album covers on ILM, where hardly any of the covers are smug.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:06 (five years ago) link
and give racists the platform they need. people are building entire careers in media and politics on the the outraged online reactions of their enemies. it would appear that is a p key component in how fascism works today.
― FernandoHierro, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:12 (five years ago) link
for that matter ... how much can we rely on 'persuadables' if they're perpetually vulnerable to racial appeals? it seems to me anti-racisms focus is abt compelling strategies that undermine the effectiveness of right wing racial appeals, which isn't the same as trying to step lightly around race, albeit also probably not abt falling totally for the bait during these flashpoint moments
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:38 (five years ago) link
idk, i would say i'm pretty ... pessimistic abt how one goes about doing that at this point. but anything less than that feels like a trap
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:39 (five years ago) link
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit)
i don't know how that happens without people who are already committed putting in a lot of work. people have to be taught the skills involved, often mentored.
-
i would like to again express my displeasure with any strategy that involves conscious avoidance of _provoking_ racist demagogues. this seems to me like an implicitly or explicitly victim-blaming strategy.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:44 (five years ago) link
did someone use the word 'provoking'
― FernandoHierro, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:51 (five years ago) link
is that how de-platforming works fernando?
because last i checked not only was this kid not deplatformed, he ended up on the today show
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Wednesday, January 23, 2019 2:44 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
just to bolster this point, demos just did a fresh study that i presented on yesterday indicating that frames that alienate the firm opposition track with increased support from our base (as distinct from ourselves, advocates) & the mixed-views persuadables.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 16:38 (five years ago) link
what
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:38 (five years ago) link
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:48 (five years ago) link
messages that alienate our opponents are not a bad thing but a good thing xp
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
i think what's good is that sort of wide-ranging policy-based message, vs the singling-out of people or small groups of people who do something that offends the left's sensibilities. i think the former leads to the base galvanizing and becoming stronger, and the latter leads to people rushing to someone's defense and a bullshit redemption arc that winds up being more of a validation.
― omar little, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:07 (five years ago) link
xp you know i wasnt zinging you i just literally could not parse that f
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link
haha yeah i read it again and i couldn't parse it either
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link
i would agree but the relationship is not causal or direct, i.e. the things that most outrage "our" "enemies" are not necessarily best at galvanizing "our" "base"
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:19 (five years ago) link
Different things with different messengers appeal to different people.
I was just thinking that a big grievance towards most politicians, parties, people with any sort of power, your friends and neighbors, is that they have distinctly been avoiding even acknowledging racism/sexism for our entire lives. This is why I often hear that white people will never, ever truly be an ally, forget them, look after your own.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link
the things that most outrage "our" "enemies" are not necessarily best at galvanizing "our" "base"
― the late great, Wednesday, January 23, 2019 6:19 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i agree, but what i'm getting at by highlighting the point is that i don't think we should let alienating the opposition stop us from using messaging that galvanizes the left base -- and, separately, it seems to me that making them howl marginalizes them further from the general public.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:46 (five years ago) link
I recommend ash sarkar's interview with hbomberguy on novara abt his recent marathon donkey kong 64 twitch fundraiser and one of the things he talks abt is how part of what helped such a large group of ppl suggest was having graham linehan as a hate figure. i think ppl often underestimate how effective a negative focus like that can be in helping a group rally
― ogmor, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 23:49 (five years ago) link
hbomberguy on novara abt his recent marathon donkey kong 64 twitch fundraiser a
damn i must be old -- is this english?
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 23:55 (five years ago) link
it's ok to have bad people angry at you
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 00:57 (five years ago) link
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy)
does this mean i'm young for understanding it? (i'm not young)
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 00:58 (five years ago) link
i think you should take it! :)
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 01:03 (five years ago) link
c'mon Gummy I'm 52 and have never used Twitch and am not a gamer and even I know what all that means
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 January 2019 01:04 (five years ago) link
donkey kong 64 is 20 years old
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 January 2019 08:58 (five years ago) link
donkey kong 84
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 14:44 (five years ago) link
Imagine a prehensile foot stamping on Mario's face...forever
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
Native American activist Nathan Phillips has a criminal record https://t.co/EOUOoeu1Mb pic.twitter.com/2Efl6qWjMY— New York Post (@nypost) January 24, 2019
holy shit that chud PR firm is good
― frogbs, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
Have we discussed anywhere this guy taking a guilty plea to a terrorism charge? Hope this clears the way for more accurate labeling of white supremacist terrorists as they are charged in our justice system.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/nyregion/timothy-caughman-white-supremacist-guilty.html
― peace, man, Thursday, 24 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
this week's ep on Covington
https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538775/on-the-media
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 January 2019 07:29 (five years ago) link
i sense a great disturbance in the force
https://preview.redd.it/e4ganyea02d21.jpg?width=720&auto=webp&s=b44cb54f37db50f0f6fe43a52f7356122bf3d763
― maxwell’s silver hang suite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 28 January 2019 11:32 (five years ago) link
Sounds like the plot to Michel Houellebecq's Submission.
― pomenitul, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link
The fuck is he talking about 11 year olds dancing? I missed this particular piece of propaganda.
― peace, man, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:51 (five years ago) link
A supposedly autistic 11 year old boy in drag danced at a gay bar in NYC, patrons threw money at him, deplorables are losing their minds on Twitter, Infowars, the Daily Wire, Breitbart, LifeSite, etc.
― pomenitul, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:58 (five years ago) link
A supposedly autistic 11 year old boy in drag danced at a gay bar in NYC, patrons threw money at him???Sharia law!
― Neil S, Monday, 28 January 2019 12:09 (five years ago) link
i for one am looking forward to weird mike's blockbuster new book sharia mindset
― maxwell’s silver hang suite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 28 January 2019 12:16 (five years ago) link
Tbf there's always been a horseshoe effect between the Western far-right and rigourist Islam.
― pomenitul, Monday, 28 January 2019 12:19 (five years ago) link
Someone should tell them about the dancing boys in Afghanistan
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 28 January 2019 12:25 (five years ago) link
The way that was written I thought this boy was randomly put on stage and dressed up, he's a legit drag performer.
― Yerac, Monday, 28 January 2019 12:26 (five years ago) link
Tbf there's always been a horseshoe effect between the Western far-right and rigourist Islam.― pomenitul, Monday, January 28, 2019 12:19 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― pomenitul, Monday, January 28, 2019 12:19 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's not really a horseshoe though.
― peace, man, Monday, 28 January 2019 12:28 (five years ago) link
Sounds like the plot to Michel Houellebecq's Submission.― pomenitul, Monday, January 28, 2019 6:44 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― pomenitul, Monday, January 28, 2019 6:44 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
sure does. it's also not totally new for the far right.
In his recent book, "The Enemy at Home: The Cultural Left and Its Responsibility for 9/11," conservative commentator Dinesh D'Souza maintains that the political left has helped make the United States the target of Islamic extremists. "A decadent American culture" and "an aggressive global campaign to undermine the traditional patriarchal family and to promote secular values," D'Souza writes, has made Muslims feel that "their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault."
According to D'Souza, the best way to resist radical Islam is to make common cause with Muslim traditionalists who reject Western decadence and secularism but also shun violence and extremism.[/q]
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 28 January 2019 13:27 (five years ago) link
sorry i messed up the whatever html whatever
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 28 January 2019 13:28 (five years ago) link
get this off my screen, it's too spicy
Who is worse?The drug dealer? Or the drug user?When it came to slavery, blacks were the dealers.Whites were the users.— Stefan Molyneux (@StefanMolyneux) February 12, 2019
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:44 (five years ago) link
wow
― gbx, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:45 (five years ago) link
that is one spicy fucking take
― ian, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:46 (five years ago) link
Well then.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:53 (five years ago) link
Kanye solemnly nodding
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:56 (five years ago) link
Dftt ffs
― Stephen Yakkety-Yaxley-Rosbif (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 February 2019 19:56 (five years ago) link
he is referring to the slaves in africa being supplied by african slavers (then conflating those slavers and slaves into "blacks"). he is a real piece of work. i've seen some of his stuff through the youtube channel "Shaun" that examines some popular far right figures.
― adam the (abanana), Thursday, 14 February 2019 02:48 (five years ago) link
Never in doubt
Portland, Oregon, official says report that a police commander exchanged friendly text messages with a leader of far-right protests that have rocked the city confirms collusion exists between some police and right-wing extremists. https://t.co/Xkk4iaD318— AP West Region (@APWestRegion) February 15, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 15 February 2019 04:16 (five years ago) link
Whites were the users.
No. It was a free market and there was an exchange of commodities. Black slavers exchanged captives for various valuable western-made goods. White slavers bought human beings to be ruthlessly exploited until they died of illness, overwork, or malnutrition. Pretending human slaves are the same as an addictive substance is bollocks, unless you are citing white slave owners's greedy addiction to the huge profits they could make from sugar and cotton plantations.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 15 February 2019 04:35 (five years ago) link
why are y'all trying to stare into the abyss that is that take? there is like zero way to read it that isn't the dumbest shit ever written so why try to determine which stupid intention he had lol
― they're not booing you, sir, they're shouting "Boo'd Up" (Will M.), Friday, 15 February 2019 19:04 (five years ago) link
there is like zero way to read it that isn't the dumbest shit ever written
you greatly overestimate the average person's knowledge of history and ability to see through this sort of bullshit. it should not go unchallenged, wherever and whenever it shows up. even on ilx, where it was quoted only in order to mock it.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 15 February 2019 19:11 (five years ago) link
xxp update:
https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/02/portland-police-lieutenant-removed-from-rapid-response-team-as-bureau-investigates-his-texts-with-patriot-prayers-joey-gibson.html
― sleeve, Friday, 15 February 2019 22:29 (five years ago) link
today in self-ownage
Terrible. Heart-breaking. And truly a sign of Trump’s America. I’m with you. https://t.co/fJFtge8S8f— Candace Owens (@RealCandaceO) February 18, 2019
Lmao @JacobAWohl pic.twitter.com/yFgIAC164I— Otto von Shidposd (@ottovonshitpost) February 17, 2019
― frogbs, Monday, 18 February 2019 16:09 (five years ago) link
I can't follow wtf is happening there but I'm going to assume that these people are all ghoulish morons.
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 18 February 2019 16:26 (five years ago) link
the second one is Jacob Wohl posting 'anonymously' to 4Chan to ask why people are criticizing Jacob Wohl
― frogbs, Monday, 18 February 2019 16:31 (five years ago) link
i'm forever amazed at the capacity of such people's own self regard
― Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 18 February 2019 17:43 (five years ago) link
Jacob Wohl makes a good case for an updated version of eugenics.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 18 February 2019 18:08 (five years ago) link
His ability to double down after savage public humiliation is truly astounding.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 18 February 2019 18:36 (five years ago) link
there's clearly something... missing there. it's actually cruel of his parents to let him flail around in public like that, but i guess we live in a brave new world where even the mentally challenged get to be political pundits.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 18 February 2019 18:43 (five years ago) link
or president, for that matter.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 18 February 2019 18:44 (five years ago) link
yea even given the nonstop stupidity and constant grifting that follows every aspect of the right these days, Wohl stands out as something....special. it's like bizarre performance art at this point.
― frogbs, Monday, 18 February 2019 18:47 (five years ago) link
Jacob Wohl makes a good case for an updated version of eugenics.― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, February 18, 2019 1:08 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, February 18, 2019 1:08 PM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Very cool thing to joke about
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 18 February 2019 19:06 (five years ago) link
sorry, am i "cancelled"?
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 00:26 (five years ago) link
... or just returned due to insufficient postage?
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 00:28 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rrOdcnFbAY
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Tuesday, 19 February 2019 00:45 (five years ago) link
Exactly 80 years ago today, almost 20,000 people attended a Nazi rally at New York City’s old Madison Square Garden. “A Night at the Garden,” the @fieldofvision documentary about the gathering, is a film of “true horror,” writes @schwarz. https://t.co/OsSDFUnHjw pic.twitter.com/ETi2LqVtbM— The Intercept (@theintercept) February 20, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 20 February 2019 20:54 (five years ago) link
Er.
A @gwupoe scoop: A LT in the US Coast Guard was arrested this week for drug and gun charges. It looked like a run of the mill case until the detention memo filed yesterday. He had a hit list, contacts with white supremacists, guns, and, again, was an Coastie assigned to HQ.— Seamus Hughes (@SeamusHughes) February 20, 2019
There's a lot more in this thread.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 21:15 (five years ago) link
Joe Scarborough made the list? Who gives a shit about Joe Scarborough? I mean, I can think of one guy....
― frogbs, Wednesday, 20 February 2019 22:53 (five years ago) link
There has to be room for this type of lolz it
I altered this image to make Shapiro look shorter. The tell is in the top two buttons in Peterson's shirt: I extended his torso using content aware scale and added a button but the spacing isn't right. Shapiros ghastly website used it by accident (?) 😂 pic.twitter.com/PloZ8zwc3T— Alex Jay Brady (@AlexJayBrady) February 20, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 21 February 2019 04:39 (five years ago) link
*itt
Shit going down tonight at a Portland police listening session that local Proud Boys assholes showed up to. Thread here:
im here at the church for the Portland Police’s listening session. so is Steve, whose last name i dont know. took me about five minutes to realise that he was the guy in that video who grabbed and held a person while Joey Gibson grabbed that person’s mask. pic.twitter.com/YSFFaeKvKK— Mike Bivins (@itsmikebivins) February 22, 2019
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Friday, 22 February 2019 03:45 (five years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0B2th1WoAEgw8N.jpg:small
― mookieproof, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:52 (five years ago) link
Not horizontal lines!
― jmm, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link
Is that guy supposed to be "the left" or a guy who is mad about the left?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 22 February 2019 18:54 (five years ago) link
that guy is definitely supposed to be the left
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 22 February 2019 18:55 (five years ago) link
and/or a concentration camp prisoner
― mookieproof, Friday, 22 February 2019 18:56 (five years ago) link
‘runined’?
― “Emotional Interest Underwear” (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 February 2019 21:18 (five years ago) link
― Choose Your Own Disaster (Old Lunch), Saturday, 23 February 2019 00:15 (five years ago) link
Turnining Point USA
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Saturday, 23 February 2019 00:19 (five years ago) link
snake eating its own tail usa
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Saturday, 23 February 2019 00:46 (five years ago) link
Started reading Alt America: The Rise of the Radical Right in the Age of Trump. Starts off with a harrowing account of Dylann Roof; didn't realize he'd spent an hour talking religion with the people he was about to kill. ("Roof later told the police that he nearly called off his plan because everyone 'was so nice to him.'")
Very circumspect when reading this in public because of the cover.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51h2SaX%2BJWL.jpg
― clemenza, Saturday, 23 February 2019 22:12 (five years ago) link
wasn't sure where to post this, but this is a (by internet standards) deep-ish dive into a particular manifestation of the horseshoe theory that i thought was interesting
https://hummusforthought.com/2018/03/16/the-multipolar-spin-how-fascists-operationalize-left-wing-resentment/
"The Multipolar Spin: How Fascists Operationalize Left-wing Resentment"
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 February 2019 03:58 (five years ago) link
Rogan giving Alex Jones air time again today.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 February 2019 04:18 (five years ago) link
The "I Don't Speak German" podcast is still going strong. I highly recommend the Cantwell and Southern Nationalist episodes.
http://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/website
― adam the (abanana), Friday, 1 March 2019 17:43 (five years ago) link
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/03/owner-of-maga-friendly-yelp-knockoff-threatens-to-call-fbi-after-researcher-exposes-security-holes/
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 07:22 (five years ago) link
A friend of mine who teaches English informs me that one of his colleagues systematically assigns 12 Rules for Life. Are any of its pieces of advice even remotely useful aside perhaps from 'clean your room' (and even that one is debatable)?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:15 (five years ago) link
no
― kiss me dadly (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:17 (five years ago) link
Not even 'Do not bother children when they are skateboarding'?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:20 (five years ago) link
I think the rules themselves are unobjectionable self-help stuff - maybe too vague to carry any meaning.
It's everything around them that's toxic and terrible.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 13:30 (five years ago) link
though tbf not every cat you meet on the street is pettable and you might very well be in for a well deserved scratching injury if you ignore that
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 13:32 (five years ago) link
I was just about to say. But yeah, the 12 rules themselves come off as fairly innocuous. I have no interest in finding out about their supposed corollaries, though.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 13:33 (five years ago) link
what kind of english class is this? 12 rules is not well-written nor is it remotely engaging but yeah i assume people can read it and not come away with the impression that jp is a stalking horse for fascism. i thought it was like bart simpson's guide to life, compiled by a hired writing staff, a crass tie-in for completist fans / given as a gift to adolescent sons by distant fathers, .
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 15:57 (five years ago) link
rule #69: don't have a cow man!!!!!rule #70: eat nothing but cowsrule #71: you should be able to marry that cow even if she hasnt reached age of majority
― you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-wohl-faked-death-threats-against-himself
would be cool to see this get 0.001% of the attention that Jussie Smollett got
― frogbs, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:41 (five years ago) link
"clean your room" is code for "don't complain about how the world works unless your track record is spiffy clean" and is used to justify ad hominem attacks on the left
― adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:47 (five years ago) link
Turns out the exact rule is 'Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world' (I assume the 'clean your room' line is featured in this most august of sections). Anyway, that's obviously quite rich coming from him.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:55 (five years ago) link
Your house isn't in perfect order until you've stuffed your fridge to the brim with ribs and sirloins.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:57 (five years ago) link
xpi think it's more about... personal responsibility? how can you complain about the prevailing social order that has you working a zero hour contract job and struggling to pay the minimum on your student loan when you haven't even wrung the best possible performance out of yourself, when you haven't done jack shit except complain. use your time ironing your shirts and putting your magic the gathering cards in a binder and brushing up your resume to apply for a retail management trainee job instead of trying to change a system that you have no hope of changing.
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 16:59 (five years ago) link
Must the two be mutually exclusive? (They are for him, I know.) Leaving personality responsibility to the right has always seemed a losing move to me.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
*personal responsibility, although we're also responsible for our personalities.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:02 (five years ago) link
sure. i rarely see "personal responsibility" used to mean anything but self-reliance and stop whining.let's take back personal responsibility and cleaning our rooms in 2019.
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:54 (five years ago) link
friends, can i promote here a piece i wrote on reactionary chinese internet celebritieshttps://supchina.com/2019/03/13/chinas-intellectual-dark-web-and-its-most-active-fanatic/
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 17:56 (five years ago) link
That is a great piece. Reminding me first of all to read SupChina more often, I’ve fallen out of the Sino sphere somewhat.
That map! I’m surprised the Chinese government let him get away with this nonsense for so long.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 21:37 (five years ago) link
Also had never heard about those 80s coup movements, where can I go to find out more (in English)? Calling yourself the heavenly kingdom, even without going the whole hog and appending 太平, seems like some next level crazy branding for a rebellion.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 21:43 (five years ago) link
when i worked shelving books at a library, i was very bad at my job, because i took time out and browsed through all the books in the self-help section, 158.1. and i found that every self help book is bad for one of two reasons: either the advice it gives is obvious to the extent that it is banal and pointless, or the advice it gives is flatly wrong. the only book in that entire section that did not fall into one of those two categories (or both at once) was a book called "crip zen", which was a self help book which advised the reader to move to mexico and smoke copious amounts of marijuana. i have yet to do this but you can bet your ass that i bought a copy of that book.
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 00:05 (five years ago) link
John Galton otm
― brownie, Thursday, 14 March 2019 00:07 (five years ago) link
thanks ed. those 80s coup groups, the stories are unbelievable, have lengthy baidu articles about them, and those two i named are two of six or seven plots that came out in the 80s with local cults and regional gangsters trying to split away, but the only english language source i could find for those was a book called china wakes: struggle for the soul of a rising power which is out of print, nicholas kristof going on to fame for writing about things other than china.
most of these reactionary chinese guys now, like liu zhongjing, were mostly posting about how much they hated leftists and feminists, which is fair game, and waited to get overseas before getting on the separatism stuff.
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 05:45 (five years ago) link
a self help book which advised the reader to move to mexico and smoke copious amounts of marijuana
That does indeed sound like better advice than the usual fare, although I've never been able to thoroughly enjoy getting high, alas. The only self-help book I've read (and tbf I haven't read many) that I didn't flat-out hate was The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, maybe because it does a slightly better job of speaking to the anxiety-ridden, nihilistic shambles in me than its sugarcoating competitors. I'd rather just reread Cioran, though.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 13:34 (five years ago) link
I wonder if some alt righters might find cioran a bit of a revelation
― ogmor, Thursday, 14 March 2019 13:44 (five years ago) link
They'd skip his mature output altogether and cut straight to the fash juvenilia.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 13:48 (five years ago) link
That said, his later works are hardly free from reactionary elements, as regards women in particular.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 13:49 (five years ago) link
i feel like "intellectual dark web" and particularly "black pill" types would love cioran. i also don't think they would necessarily understand how _funny_ cioran is.
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 14:53 (five years ago) link
not that /lit/ is uniformly alt-right men but they have definitely discovered cioranhope this image auto resizes
http://imgur.com/eGyzjT2.jpg
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:01 (five years ago) link
That's a rather… broad definition of 'right-wing literature'.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:02 (five years ago) link
for my legionaries, a hayek book, evola, pat buchanan, the unabomber, spengler... an intellectual buffet
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:04 (five years ago) link
As a side note, I do find it amusing how Cioran's self-styled 'E. M.', which he fabricated to imitate writers such as E. M. Forster or T. S. Eliot, still graces the covers of his English translations to this day. Emil had no middle name.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
I love that they include Kurt Vonnegut but have a little asterisk "just read the one that flatters your anti-egalitarian stance, don't accidentally read anything about how war is stupid and evil and western civilization is kind of a joke"
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:07 (five years ago) link
a more general /lit/ nonfic recommendations listhttps://4chanlit.fandom.com/wiki/Recommended_Reading/Non-fictioncioran gets in there too but a different and obscure? book
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:08 (five years ago) link
A "Nietzschean" tag and no actual Nietzsche
― jmm, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:15 (five years ago) link
That list isn't half bad tbh. Lyn Hejinian is on it!
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:15 (five years ago) link
A&A is a collection of essays and stories, which could serve ok as a general introduction to Cioran I suppose xxp
― Uptown VONC (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:18 (five years ago) link
They're referring to Elisabeth Nietzsche iirc.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:19 (five years ago) link
also isnt "harrison bergeron" supposed to be a satire of rand?
― you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:23 (five years ago) link
they included emet ve-emunah (principles of conservative judaism) but if they wanted reactionary religious jewish works i could've hooked them up with stuff that made a lot more sense!
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:34 (five years ago) link
there are a lot of great / interesting books on that list tho if this is what they're reading (i'm sure they're mostly not) it seems pretty formidable
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 15:35 (five years ago) link
why would a reactionary want to read something that "made sense"
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
none of these people have fucking read the magic mountain
i'm fucking livid it's included
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
i meant made more sense for a bunch of reactionaries looking for religious traditionalist works. not something that necessarily made internal logical sense.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
i'm guessing they don't know what "conservative" in "conservative Judaism" means
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
that seems like a safe bet
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 14 March 2019 16:50 (five years ago) link
― jolene club remix (BradNelson)
no, but they pretended to read it, and ultimately isn't that what's really important?
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Thursday, 14 March 2019 17:54 (five years ago) link
maybe they just think all germans are on their side automatically
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 March 2019 17:57 (five years ago) link
xp fascinating work, dylannn. Thanks for sharing here.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:05 (five years ago) link
I don’t know very much about the internal dynamics of china.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:06 (five years ago) link
And many americans i assume are in a similar boat
I wanna get you on a dunno boat re: china
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
Our class read "the Chosen" when I was in fifth grade
― Bnad, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:18 (five years ago) link
took this pic in the library the other day
http://i63.tinypic.com/22ixk6.jpg
hope this list doesn't get him cancelled :(
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 14 March 2019 18:41 (five years ago) link
this is /lit/ not exactly representative of the alt-right as a whole or even 4chan, also has a large faction of non-alt-right people toobut good place to get turned on to obscure-to-me books (i'd never heard of julian jaynes the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind until browsing /lit/ today)
also thanks treezo!
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Friday, 15 March 2019 04:36 (five years ago) link
Magic Mountain is super centrist-liberal if it's anything. Settembrini is an airy-fairy idealist with vague notions of Brotherhood Amongst Peoples, Naphta a harsh doctrinaire extremist. Iirc Mann originally planned to have these two serve as equally valid/flawed points of view but as historical events mounted up he sided with Settembrini. I guess from a conservative pov you can suggest the book is Owning The Marxists but their counterpoint is basically a EU stan avant la lettre, which doesn't really reconcile with modern conservatism (well, within the EU it sometimes does).
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 15 March 2019 11:19 (five years ago) link
the magic mountain is not a reactionary text in any form or fashion. i think mann thought there was a problem with liberalism in that it didn't integrate the darker impulses of human nature -- something like the death drive -- in its account of reality. but naphta, who gives himself over to human irrationality, is clearly depicted as more than a villain. if the novel has a "message" it's that the enlightenment needs to be more dialectical if it is going to avoid getting bulldozed by evil.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:19 (five years ago) link
mann thought there was a problem with liberalism
Sounds like he deserves to get posthumously cancelled.
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:21 (five years ago) link
I mean, he wasn’t someone I’d want to be friends with, given the things he wrote in his diary about his young son klaus. But the magic mountain is an incredibly complex book that doesn’t flatter any particular ideology.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:27 (five years ago) link
Mann expressed his belief in the collection of letters written in exile, Listen, Germany! (Deutsche Hörer!), that equating Russian communism with Nazi-fascism on the basis that both are totalitarian systems was either superficial or insincere in showing a preference for fascism.[32] He clarified this view during a German press interview in July 1949, declaring that he was not a communist, but that communism at least had some relation to ideals of humanity and of a better future. He said that the transition of the communist revolution into an autocratic regime was a tragedy while Nazism was only "devilish nihilism".[33][34]
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
I was being facetious btw. That reading list deserves praise for including complex, ambiguous writers, assuming whoever put it together grasps those nuances in the first place and doesn't use polysemy as an excuse to further spread their own dumb ideology ('let me tell you what Mann really meant…').
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:35 (five years ago) link
I knew you were. I just wanted to further emphasize how much that book doesn’t fit into a “right wing” list.
― Trϵϵship, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:37 (five years ago) link
ime these dark cathedral / intellectual alt-right guys can be extraordinarily fascinating to talk with partially bc many of them read lots of weird shit. moldbug always had a corpus of alt-canon he was plugging (a lot of which is on that list)
― Mordy, Friday, 15 March 2019 13:41 (five years ago) link
anybody who takes their display name from mencius is obviously going to be fairly well-read
which mostly serves as an object lesson on the limitations of being well-read, sadly
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Friday, 15 March 2019 19:19 (five years ago) link
All too true, sadly. Renaud Camus, who coined the phrase 'the great replacement' is an excellent prose stylist and a 'learned' man. He's also partly, albeit indirectly responsible for the Christchurch mosque shooting.
― pomenitul, Friday, 15 March 2019 19:28 (five years ago) link
on first read-through this seems like a good analysis of the manifesto, touching on some of the "absurd" points made above
https://medium.com/@emilypothast/what-the-christchurch-killers-manifesto-tells-us-about-the-radicalization-of-white-men-c55857149b33
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:16 (five years ago) link
sorry by "above" I mean in the "fucking spree shooting" thread but I think this is better here
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:17 (five years ago) link
sleeve do you know emily who wrote that piece? she's a friend of mine and writes very singularly about this subject
― Clay, Saturday, 16 March 2019 01:58 (five years ago) link
no but I noticed that the person who pointed me to that article has numerous FB friends in common w/me
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Saturday, 16 March 2019 02:12 (five years ago) link
I had a few friends in common w her and liked her writing enough I added her on Facebook. Always good stuff.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 16 March 2019 02:38 (five years ago) link
The works continues to get progressively stranger by the minute.
lol the guy who murdered the Gambino mob boss repped QAnon in court pic.twitter.com/MtYE6vRJGA— egg boy (@lib_crusher) March 18, 2019
― ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 21:02 (five years ago) link
That's like the murder equivalent of beginner's luck or something. Only someone completely stupid and detached from reality would attempt and succeed at that kind of thing.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 18 March 2019 21:43 (five years ago) link
Do you get the impression they're reading much stuff that has case studies in it or are they more into, I suppose, dark aesthetics?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 18 March 2019 21:57 (five years ago) link
They tend to mistake the latter for the former.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 08:51 (five years ago) link
“I want his mother and his father dead! I want his house burnt to the ground”“Says here his father already got whacked at Deely Plaza in 1963, boss”— Wyatt Chet Failson III esq. (@TheFanciestLad) March 19, 2019
― maura, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:48 (five years ago) link
As far as the reading lists are concerned i think there's a ton of play between pleasure of text and discourse as rational structure that people - quite rightly! - blur and lose themselves within
i.e. I don't believe in "not getting it", the possibilities for what you get from something as a reader are the heart of reading
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
the worst solecism is thinking that you understand your pet writers in ways that yr ideological foes don't
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:57 (five years ago) link
Does that cover nazi readings of Nietzsche?
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 12:58 (five years ago) link
I think so but i was also thinking of non-nazis insisting that those readings are definitively wrong
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:00 (five years ago) link
I mostly agree with you, unless you exacerbate your relativism to such a degree that all readings become equally valid for the sake of an omnipotent hermeneutics, in which case I'd argue that texts are entities in and of themselves and as such they allow for a limited set of interpretive possibilities, i.e. you can't draw just any conclusion from them (cf. legal texts) although the field remains quite open in the grand scheme of thins.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:06 (five years ago) link
*things
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:07 (five years ago) link
I guess my take on that, such as it is, is that i'm open to a limitless hermeneutics but in practice the argument is fundamentally unimportant, any value a specific reading has is far more tied into the value (including aesthetic pleasure) of the reading itself. Outlandish interpretations probably tend to uselessness but probably not because of their disconnect from a true reading.
Struggling to be clear there but hopefully you get my gist
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:12 (five years ago) link
i'd argue that, just like with people, if you torture any text enough it will tell you what you want to hear
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:13 (five years ago) link
And that's aside from arguing that claims to understand a text from people far removed from the cultural context of the author are flawed as fuck
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:14 (five years ago) link
But i don't believe a reading is torture - again, you're implying a fundamental correct reading of something which doesn't lend itself to a transparent rendering of truth
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:16 (five years ago) link
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague)
well, as one example, the current legal doctrine on the meaning of the second amendment is the result of not just a tortuous reading, but one that does actual malice to the text
i don't know about "fundamentally correct" reading but damn if there aren't fundamentally incorrect readings
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:21 (five years ago) link
I do get what you're saying, NV, and concur. My position, which is that reading is a two-way street (the reader is free to read the text as s/he sees fit but his/her reading is also shaped by what the text has to offer, which tends towards limitlessness but can never quite achieve it) doesn't contradict yours as I understand it.
To go back to Nietzsche for a second (or the Bible or Heidegger or Cioran, etc.), extracting a white supremacist übermensch out of his work requires that you disregard major swathes of it (almost of all it tbh), so while nothing prevents a given reader from doing that in practice, it's still pretty fucking dumb and lazy in my book.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:22 (five years ago) link
Put differently, I can read whatever I want into absolutely anything. But some texts make it more difficult for me to do that, for better or for worse.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:23 (five years ago) link
I think my underlying belief is that the wrongness lies in the white supremacy so any reading that wants to argue for that is fuckwd at that point, language games aside
xp rush, i get what you're saying there. there's something about legislation as text that wants to treat legal text as different - more concrete? - than other kinds of writing. I don't have a pat answer to that, but i think intentionality arguments hit similar difficulties
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:28 (five years ago) link
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:57 AM (thirty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
idk is this in fact the worst solecism
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
it's dumb and lazy to be sure but it's also, i find, how humans tend to read by default. confirmation bias, right?
i do think you can read cioran as a fascist, but only his works from that period where he actually was a fascist.
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:31 (five years ago) link
I think i've thought for a long time that trying to prove your enemies are *wrong* is a fool's errand, so just pick a side and fuck trying to debate the undebatable
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:33 (five years ago) link
lol Brad just let me wave my empty rhetoric around k?
― Helel Cool J (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:34 (five years ago) link
look, if someone's a flat-earther, one can pretty easily prove they're wrong, you're just not going to convince them of the fact. i don't expect everybody to always be rational, but i'd hope we'd live in a world that gives people access to the truth and the ability to differentiate it from lies. right now i don't really believe we do.
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:38 (five years ago) link
not keen on any sort of transcendent truth or values but coherence is useful as a criteria imo
― ogmor, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:43 (five years ago) link
It's not like, as a matter of principle, interpreting Nietzsche as a white supremacist is necessarily part of an argument for white supremacy. We may read him that way in the process of denouncing white supremacy. The validity of the reading and the validity of the philosophy we ascribe to the text come apart in that case.
― jmm, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 13:47 (five years ago) link
if only we were so sure we were the ppl reading the texts right and they're the ones misusing it as tho a great contribution to philosophy or literature has never been made by a [sometimes literal] nazi
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:00 (five years ago) link
oh, the norwegians know better than that, but even still they struggle with knut hamsun
i'm not one for "exculpatory" readings myself nor would i consider myself an apologist
― the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 March 2019 14:02 (five years ago) link
https://elink.thedailybeast.com/view/5bae99853f92a46ecbcf5b739rlr3.15s/0f27da77
Remember Baked Alaska, the alt-right memelord who got pepper-sprayed in Charlottesville and memorably cried out for milk? Now he tells me he’s ditching the alt-right, which he says has ruined his life.Alaska — real name Timothy Gionet — called me last week from Phoenix, where he’s living after watching his internet fameball career crash and burn along with the rest of his racist movement.“It’s been a pretty big disaster, to be honest,” Gionet said. “It’s been terrible for my employment opportunities, my reputation. It’s ruined lifelong friendships, it’s ruined relationships with family. It’s hurt my soul.”Now Gionet is trying to pivot away from the alt-right, making a video about how the New Zealand shooter was radicalized by right-wing internet memes. And he’s reinventing himself as a fan of Andrew Yang, the Democratic presidential hopeful beloved by 4Chan. He’s even made a rap about it.
Alaska — real name Timothy Gionet — called me last week from Phoenix, where he’s living after watching his internet fameball career crash and burn along with the rest of his racist movement.
“It’s been a pretty big disaster, to be honest,” Gionet said. “It’s been terrible for my employment opportunities, my reputation. It’s ruined lifelong friendships, it’s ruined relationships with family. It’s hurt my soul.”
Now Gionet is trying to pivot away from the alt-right, making a video about how the New Zealand shooter was radicalized by right-wing internet memes. And he’s reinventing himself as a fan of Andrew Yang, the Democratic presidential hopeful beloved by 4Chan. He’s even made a rap about it.
― j., Thursday, 28 March 2019 02:56 (five years ago) link
that's...almost good?
― you know who deserves sitewide mod privileges? (m bison), Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:00 (five years ago) link
A friend of mine went to high school with this clown. Suffice to say she is not impressed. (He apparently has always been a trend-chasing asshole among other things.)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:02 (five years ago) link
fuck that asshole
― brimstead, Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:09 (five years ago) link
Gionet, who claims that he sees “normie-tier conservatives” being radicalized to the far-right on social media, says he wants to warn other people away from being recruited to white supremacist groups through memes and “ironic” racism.“I really thought this was just fun memes and jokes and edgy 4Chan posting and all this stuff, and then you get to the end of this rabbit hole and you realize these guys are serious,” Gionet said.
“I really thought this was just fun memes and jokes and edgy 4Chan posting and all this stuff, and then you get to the end of this rabbit hole and you realize these guys are serious,” Gionet said.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:10 (five years ago) link
Burn with the rest of them, fuckface
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 28 March 2019 03:34 (five years ago) link
he'll be back w/ the nazis once he can figure out how to monetize it
see also: glenn beck
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 04:33 (five years ago) link
i have no idea who andrew yang is and i don't follow this stuff very well but the quoted statements have this sort of self-aggrandizing victimhood vibe to them to them that gives me a certain amount of pause
people want to turn over a new leaf, i think that's great, but he has every reason to be insincere and i have no reason to trust him or give him the time of day
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 06:14 (five years ago) link
i get a ron paul-like cult vibe from him and his followers
like, he repeats simple ideas and people are attracted to that
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 06:15 (five years ago) link
i did see a yang bumper sticker a few days ago, in fact it's perhaps the only 2020 race sticker i've seen so far
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 06:16 (five years ago) link
do you work in a tech corridor
― j., Thursday, 28 March 2019 06:23 (five years ago) link
haven't paid too much attn to yang so could be simplifying this but the vibe i get is: less engagement, less worry, the crisis is past, the smart people are in charge now, some of them are computers, here's a little allowance, come back in four years. call that what you want.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 28 March 2019 08:13 (five years ago) link
not hugely eager to discover what such an administration's sensible engineer's approach to, say, climate refugees would be; but maybe he's talked about it.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 28 March 2019 08:19 (five years ago) link
so one of these dudes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_movement
no offense but i wish those types would stick with folks like ron paul, it's easier to govern when all the obviously wrong people are on one side
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
like i'm frustrated that the republican party has become the anti-vaxxer party because there should be no anti-vaxxers, but if anybody is going to be an anti-vaxxer it might as well be a republican because at least then people aren't going to push you to accommodate them, you know?
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 12:57 (five years ago) link
yeah not until they gain clout in the party but then lookout
― j., Thursday, 28 March 2019 13:04 (five years ago) link
Yang's platform seemed alright to me. Maybe someone itt can explain to me what's wrong with him.
― frogbs, Thursday, 28 March 2019 13:26 (five years ago) link
i feel like the very nature of the republican party in 2019 is going to naturally be attractive to lysenkoists and other pseudoscientists of all stripes - they are fundamentally the "alternative facts" party
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 13:29 (five years ago) link
I like booker’s idea for savings accounts for children
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 March 2019 13:32 (five years ago) link
Wait i thought this was the 2020 thread bc ppl were talking abt yang
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 28 March 2019 13:34 (five years ago) link
Cory Booker is not alt right—for all his faults
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Wednesday, March 27, 2019 11:14 PM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― gbx, Thursday, 28 March 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
don't trust a purportedly reformed Nazi doing a press tour
― moose; squirrel (silby), Thursday, 28 March 2019 16:51 (five years ago) link
ike i'm frustrated that the republican party has become the anti-vaxxer party because there should be no anti-vaxxers, but if anybody is going to be an anti-vaxxer it might as well be a republican because at least then people aren't going to push you to accommodate them, you know?
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, March 28, 2019 8:57 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
don’t think anti-vaxxers being primarily republicans is remotely true tbh
― k3vin k., Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:46 (five years ago) link
No, they’re libertarians and/or claim ‘independence’
All the ones I know are weird selfish arseholes.
― suzy, Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:50 (five years ago) link
lotta hippies in there as well
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:51 (five years ago) link
― k3vin k., Thursday, March 28, 2019 10:46 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah the venn diagram of people who are hippy dippy liberals/leftists into weed, healing crystals, and alternative medicine and anti-vaxxers has a huuuuuuge overlap
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:54 (five years ago) link
The loudest are split pretty evenly between granola libs and homeschool reactionaries IME. Essential oils being another commonality between those two groups.
From what I remember, though, a significant number of anti-vaxxers are poor and POC, people who may not have the strongest, most positive relationship to our healthcare system.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:56 (five years ago) link
don't bring weed into this. the third thing you're looking for is pressed vegetable juice xp
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:57 (five years ago) link
Scratch a hippie, find a libertarian - or worse. I sometimes work with a hippie who did not vaccinate her daughter and has a Twitter timeline full of YouTube likes for CT videos about Trump saving us all from secret pedo cults in DC. Also voted for Brexit even though she has three French holidays a year.
― suzy, Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:59 (five years ago) link
xp I saw a video about hippies who were juicing cannabis leaves so they've got that covered too.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:59 (five years ago) link
xps. hey, i have a weed oil vape sitting on my coffee table but there's a correlation for sure
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 28 March 2019 17:59 (five years ago) link
Essential oils being another commonality between those two groups.
wtf are these. the only encounters i have w/ "essential oils" is that half of the people in line at the post office seem to be mailing them.
what's so essential about them anyhow?
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 18:37 (five years ago) link
They are the very essence of Nature, from before our Fall into Artifice.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 28 March 2019 18:39 (five years ago) link
They're like potpourri that cures cancer.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 March 2019 18:43 (five years ago) link
Uggggh I have a couple of really earnest essential oils people in my soc media feed. I figure people's gullibility comes from a few places. 1. Lack of access to medical care/lack of trust in the medical system (milo otm). 2. Lack of trust in commercial cleaning and home and personal products because frankly those industries AREN'T regulated enough to be able to trust them not to put harmful shit in our stuff. 3. The MLM aspect and women who want/need to work from home or need a 2nd job due to declining wages, un/under-employment and all that. Basically society is sick and people are searching for whatever.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Thursday, 28 March 2019 18:59 (five years ago) link
I slot nootropics and keto and all the Roganverse supplement shit alongside essential oils (and some anti-vaxxers) as a response to our healthcare system and generally broken society.
For depressed or anxious people who don't have the first clue how to navigate insurance for therapy (if they even have insurance) or can't afford it anyway, getting some magic beans delivered from the Internet is much easier.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:27 (five years ago) link
And they all feel like exercising agency where they have none (with the depression, or their economic situation or insurance/healthcare).
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:28 (five years ago) link
These people exist in countries with solid free health care systems as well.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:38 (five years ago) link
Australians are mad for keto & there's a significant anti-vax movement there too but they have a functional healthcare system so I don't think it's just that, I would bet it's more the internet magic bean syndrome. My understanding is that anti-vaxxers tend to skew high income & white but there could easily also be demographic groups that don't fit that
― badg, Thursday, 28 March 2019 19:40 (five years ago) link
Definitely high income and white in Australia, I can’t be long before Byron bay gets wiped off the map by a measles epidemic.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 28 March 2019 22:33 (five years ago) link
rich people getting wiped out of Byron is a plague I can get behind
― steven, soda jerk (sic), Thursday, 28 March 2019 22:46 (five years ago) link
― k3vin k.
not historically, but the republican party are making a concerted play for them, whether it be in kentucky or in oregon. give it a couple decades!
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Thursday, 28 March 2019 23:23 (five years ago) link
Everyone loves keto because it seems cooler/manlier than saying you are dieting or on atkins.
― Yerac, Thursday, 28 March 2019 23:41 (five years ago) link
A lot of those anti-vaxxer / anti-medicine natural remedy / supplement /self-reliant types are the descendents of the "survivalist" movement of the late 70s / early 80s. Which in turn begot the "patriot" / anti-government movement. Like the paranoid people who used to be on the old Donahue show.
It's just another example of paranoid / reactionary politics that repeats old anti-Semitic tropes but they people espousing those views don't realize the ideology's lineage.
― i don't read novels. i prefer good literary criticism. (I M Losted), Thursday, 28 March 2019 23:49 (five years ago) link
Amusingly enough, the biggest keto advocate I know is doggedly anti-anti-vaxxer
― Simon H., Friday, 29 March 2019 02:43 (four years ago) link
i drop droplets of lavendar oil in my shower because it smells good, like showering in a produce market, smells are nice
― brimstead, Friday, 29 March 2019 03:51 (four years ago) link
Qanon is becoming an ominous version of The Chive.
I've been covering Qanon for a year, and the amount of pro-Q people in this video from yesterday's Trump rally line in Grand Rapids is absolutely shocking. This is just a portion of it. pic.twitter.com/hTDGEnPsEi— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) March 29, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:35 (four years ago) link
Bob's Burgers had a great essential oils episode recently. My sister sells them; she definitely fits into #3 on in orbit's rubric, as far as I can tell it's just another MLM hustle to her, having already cycled in and out of Rodan + Fields, Norwex, Mary Kay, and seemingly a million other empires in the last several years.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 29 March 2019 12:59 (four years ago) link
xp wtf
if only George Soros would take his evil heeb fortune and finance the comparably abstruse fiction w/ even shittier aesthetic that would peel off some of these idiots
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:02 (four years ago) link
Z'ANON, with, like, a parrot with headband on or something who exposes the cabal that doesn't want ppl to have reasonable gun laws or coverage for preexisting conditions
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:07 (four years ago) link
i mean it's a big topic and my sweeping generalizations are just that, but boy there's definitely a sense, for a certain set of people, in which "alternative health" is "alternative facts" avant la lettre.
i don't think there's any one driver of people's love of quackery, and i don't think it's a specifically american thing. some of the factors, in addition to many of those already mentioned, that seem to influence it to me are:
1. people who have experienced perceived or real indifference when dealing with medical doctors. i don't think it's too shocking to say that medical doctors can sometimes be arrogant and/or lacking in empathy. i kind of assume that everyone here has at least once gone to a doctor who hasn't even listened to them at all and that's definitely a frustrating experience. the alternative care providers i've known all put a high premium on empathy and listening to the patient.
2. stigmatization of mental health. there are still plenty of people who have this internalized idea of mental health issues as not being "real" or being "all in their head" and they need some external diagnosis to validate why they feel bad.
3. just the way our damn brains work! i mean it's pretty well established at this point that we are not always rational actors and just because we know about the "placebo effect" doesn't mean we aren't going to fall prey to it. if something appears to make sense, especially if it's through analogy, we're more likely to accept that. so the idea of taking trace amounts of a substance to inoculate one against that substance seems sensible enough, particularly for anybody who learned in school about smallpox. there's a tendency, apparently simply because of how the human brain works, to want to take a superficial approximation of a thing for the thing itself. that people can go so far as to embrace homeopathy while rejecting vaccines (which involves another endemic human fallacy: overestimating risks with low probability, like having a negative reaction to a vaccine, underestimating risks with higher probability, like getting a disease as a result of not being vaccinated for it) is weird and perverse and very, very human.
i know i'm being really tangential to the supposed purpose of the thread. sorry!
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII)
again, these are not people i would want or trust to "support" the things i believe in. i don't think we need to be sensible or rational all the time, but man, we have fully automated luxury queer space communism, i don't see the benefit from having a shadowy billionaire trumpeting shadowy conspiracy theories as the basis of our politics
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:38 (four years ago) link
i'll need to suffer a smattering of idiots in the bleachers this year but they are helping pay for baseball's best bullpen abt which I am v excited
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:52 (four years ago) link
(but nah I don't really want this either just smdh)
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 29 March 2019 13:53 (four years ago) link
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/55485973_10161478709150304_7080727240744370176_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=2e7fa911cee4db95f75271bd180e8d95&oe=5D0266FE
This might have been posted upthread, but I find it fascinating that the biggest "defenders" of "western civilization" are such fucking noobs about it.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 29 March 2019 14:00 (four years ago) link
"I'm reading this guy William Shakespeare you probably haven't heard of him"
― I am message board pro and respond when talked to (stevie), Friday, 29 March 2019 14:03 (four years ago) link
He should moonlight as an alt-lite rapper called Yupi Saidit
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 29 March 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
He should moonlight as the cool substitute teacher where he just shows Amadeus in class and rehabilitates all the urban youth.
― Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 14:08 (four years ago) link
like i hate to keep harping on this but it seems like there's a lot of skepticism and cynicism about what i'm about to say: facts exist and have material consequences. if worst comes to worst and there's a war on, i'd rather be on the side that doesn't mandate their field medics only treat wounds with homeopathy.
i am fucking sick of fascists who love classical music, it's the goddamn worst thing about liking classical music
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Friday, 29 March 2019 14:09 (four years ago) link
It's because they are mad they didn't have asian parents that made them play the piano or violin and are stuck being sad weeaboos.
― Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 14:11 (four years ago) link
Vaaaaargner, Max
― I am message board pro and respond when talked to (stevie), Friday, 29 March 2019 14:18 (four years ago) link
Reading the Odyssey. That some people read my tweets rather than Homer is objective proof that my followers are stupid.
― rob, Friday, 29 March 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
In other words, if you label me alt-right, f*** you and f*** the horse you rode in on.— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) March 28, 2019
sorry Ben, I label you the way you are, not as what you identify as
― frogbs, Friday, 29 March 2019 14:28 (four years ago) link
facts don't care about your feelings, ben
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 29 March 2019 15:04 (four years ago) link
the gulf b/t how smart shapiro thinks he is and how abjectly boringly stupid he is, is so remarkably wide, you could pass a solar system through it.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link
in other words he'll probably be the GOP nominee for president in 2028
as a very smart and wise person I know I'm a catastrophic idiot
― moose; squirrel (silby), Friday, 29 March 2019 16:44 (four years ago) link
it pains me that shapiro will never realize what a tedious idiot he is. he will go to his grave thinking he is a brain genious.
how old is he anyway? 30? i've never seen or heard an "adult" who sounded so much like the most miserably dull and close-minded rising freshman.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 16:59 (four years ago) link
jesus christ he's 35.
he gave a talk at my university last year (and is now suing them lol), it was held at a building roughly 100 yards away from my office so I passed through the crowd lined up outside on my way home that night (I didn't find out what was going on until a little later—they had the street barricaded and cops around etc). the people lined up were indeed (at least visually) some of the more miserably dull and closed minded folks on our campus.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:03 (four years ago) link
i mean i mention college b/c shapiro definitely seems like someone who has got certain undergrad poses down and also like someone whose actual college education, in terms of critical thinking and understanding how to make an argument etc., left absolutely no impression on him whatsoever.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:05 (four years ago) link
it's also possible he knows all this stuff and just perfected a grift that has now taken over his mind.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:06 (four years ago) link
he also reminds me of some of the jews who thought the nazis would except them b/c of their obseqiousness and enthusiasm in toadying the fascist line but the nazis were only too pleased to send them to the death camps. but shapiro is not alone in this.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:07 (four years ago) link
a good demonstration of the very limited utility of a term like “alt-right” is it DOESN’T encompass people whose public output is littered with openly racist and white supremacist ideas and tropes— b-boy bouiebaisse (@jbouie) March 28, 2019
― JoeStork, Friday, 29 March 2019 17:15 (four years ago) link
I just read on wiki B Shapiro actually played the violin and piano. Ha!
― Yerac, Friday, 29 March 2019 17:17 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I guess he's not the best example of the "noob" phenomenon I'm talking about, but there are all these alt-right dudes who will talk about "the greatness of western civilization" and then just list off all the classical music and paintings referenced in bugs bunny cartoons.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:21 (four years ago) link
jbouie otm
― gbx, Friday, 29 March 2019 17:32 (four years ago) link
steve king fits into that. he's a dunce who can barely form a sentence and he spews endlessly about the superiority of western culture.
i'm pretty sure ben shapiro is a philistine too.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:34 (four years ago) link
i mean this is all textbook irony i guess.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Friday, 29 March 2019 17:35 (four years ago) link
the followup tweet about his insanely racist novel is worth a look too.
― JoeStork, Friday, 29 March 2019 17:43 (four years ago) link
all the classical music and paintings referenced in bugs bunny cartoons.
― Una Palooka Dronka (hardcore dilettante), Friday, 29 March 2019 18:20 (four years ago) link
― JoeStork, Friday, March 29, 2019 10:43 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
true allegiance!
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 29 March 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
he is an absolutely shit writer, speaking of western civ. Don't know about his violin playing.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 29 March 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
I mean none of this is any surprise, since smart people with smart ideas do not tend to gravitate to the right. Being "the thinking man's conservative" is akin to being the funniest guy on MadTV.
― frogbs, Friday, 29 March 2019 19:08 (four years ago) link
i dunno, there's been some funny folks on madtv
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:11 (four years ago) link
lol isn't madtv beloved on ilx?
― gbx, Friday, 29 March 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link
Alex Jones' video deposition from the Sandy Hook case:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7siWJ86g40
― grawlix (unperson), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link
xpKey and Peele were both on MadTV iirc
― rob, Friday, 29 March 2019 19:19 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyM09DhoLeQ
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 29 March 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link
oof
Who do you miss the most?— Bill Mitchell (@mitchellvii) March 29, 2019
― frogbs, Friday, 29 March 2019 20:20 (four years ago) link
Key and Peele and Andy Daly were all on MadTV
― steven, soda jerk (sic), Friday, 29 March 2019 21:15 (four years ago) link
If a person likes all these... classical, black metal, neo-folk, goth, classical drawing/painting/sculpture, pessimistic horror, Gaspar Noe, Lars Von Trier and reads books in the vein of Apocalypse Culture... then there's a 30% chance they are racist.
I love most of these things, and have a degree of respect for the rest, but I've seen quite a bunch of racists in these communities.
If Cartoon Network is the main bedrock of your culture, and anime is a large part of your diet, there is 80% chance you are horrible and a 100% chance you need a more varied diet.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 29 March 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
and a 100% chance they're a sexist man
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 29 March 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
alright I take it back. MadTV had some funny people on it. I will workshop this metaphor.
― frogbs, Friday, 29 March 2019 21:51 (four years ago) link
thank you, frogbs
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 29 March 2019 21:58 (four years ago) link
Some of these guys seem very fond of the idea the anime, manga and Japanese videogames had a large influence on "right wing thought" (I heard some guy actually say this, sounding very pleased with himself).
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 29 March 2019 22:14 (four years ago) link
Xps - a layman ask: in that Jones deposition his lawyer keeps saying, basically every time Jones knows he's screwed, "objection is the form". What's that mean?
― Ned Trifle X, Friday, 29 March 2019 22:54 (four years ago) link
He's saying "objection as to form."
OBJECTION! FORM:You can object to the form of a question in deposition.
For certain form questions, if you do not objection at the deposition, it is waived at future hearings. So speak now, or forever hold your objection.
An Attorney objecting to the form of a question is asking the other attorney to clarify a specific point. Common examples of objections as to form include: lack of authentication, compound, asked and answered, ambiguous then object to the form of the question.
Leading is also an objection to form, but this does not apply to hostile witnesses. In most jurisdictions, you simply say the following: “Objection. Form”.
Other jurisdictions will want you to clarify the type of form objection, so you would say, “Objection. Form. Compound”. In any case, don’t be a goon and ramble speaking objections (see below).
― 16 Historic English ILXors You Must Explore Soon (WmC), Friday, 29 March 2019 23:06 (four years ago) link
i know we want to be able to dismiss all racists and fascists as fundamentally dilettantes and philistines but i'm not sure it actually works like that, and that's the real cause of the frustration for me
i don't know if i'm a philistine or not but i do know that a lot of great artists who were around in the '30s were nazis or at least willing to play nice with the nazis. i have neither the inclination nor the authority to mitigate or make excuses for anybody's actions, and i also have the inability to pretend someone's political beliefs make them an artistically inferior musician or composer. to me, bronislaw huberman is numbered among the righteous as a human being and was also an amazing first-class violinist, alfred cortot is most definitely not numbered among the righteous as a human being and was an amazing first-class pianist.
honestly, on some level i do think it's valid to dismiss large swathes of the classical canon on the grounds that the people who did those parts were racist and fascist assholes, but for me at least the music, in most cases, outlives the assholes who made it.
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 00:01 (four years ago) link
Just came across this on twitterhttps://antifascistneofolk.com/2019/03/27/announcing-a-blaze-ansuz-a-chronicle-and-playlist-of-antifascist-neofolk/
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 30 March 2019 01:08 (four years ago) link
https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/great-movie-mephisto-1981/homepage_EB20080821REVIEWS08323AR.jpg
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 30 March 2019 01:12 (four years ago) link
If a person likes all these... classical, black metal, neo-folk, goth, classical drawing/painting/sculpture, pessimistic horror, Gaspar Noe, Lars Von Trier and reads books in the vein of Apocalypse Culture... then there's a 30% chance they are racist.and a 100% chance they're a sexist man
phew good thing I don't like Noe!! (idk what that book is)
― Simon H., Saturday, 30 March 2019 01:33 (four years ago) link
we should do an optimistic horror poll
― difficult listening hour, Saturday, 30 March 2019 02:08 (four years ago) link
Hmm...like classical musichate black metalhate folk (neo- or otherwise)like Sisters of Mercy but have no use for anything else "goth"prefer abstract art to representational artdon't know what "pessimistic horror" is (I like horror generally but think Thomas Ligotti's terrible) hate Noereally hate Von Trierliked Apocalypse Culture and love books on cults, hoaxes, and similar subjects in generalabout 80% of the music I listen to in a typical day is jazz
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 30 March 2019 02:13 (four years ago) link
and yet you're 100% an asshole!
the only rule is there are no rules man
― cheese canopy (map), Saturday, 30 March 2019 05:03 (four years ago) link
i feel like one of the things that suffers most from the frequently reactionary nature of classical culture is classical music as a living tradition, there's so much great classical music being made today, especially now that women aren't being systematically excluded from composition and performance, but nobody gets to hear most of it. this isn't the fault of the orchestras, most of which go out of their way to program works by living composers, it's more of a wider problem with the culture imo
i'm not saying we should just throw out beethoven, but it does seem like there's just not much room in a lot of people's heads for new classical music
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 06:36 (four years ago) link
xps Thanks WmC!
― Ned Trifle X, Saturday, 30 March 2019 08:28 (four years ago) link
Heh, your exceptions converge with mine. We're safe.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 March 2019 09:31 (four years ago) link
Rushomancy- I'm not an expert on either but doesn't theatre suffer from this too?
Lars Von Trier is the only thing I listed that I actually kind of dislike but I have enjoyed some of his work.
I don't know if modern Nazis dislike abstract art (I wasn't really thinking of that, I like most kinds of drawing/painting/sculpture) but that seems like a general conservative thing to me, though obviously some conservatives love it.
I find Apocalypse Culture and its ilk interesting but cant really be bothered anymore. I heard it once described as "the book that launched a thousand fanzines".
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 30 March 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
i know nothing about theatre. i also know little about classical music - can't read, don't play, and i'm certain there are still problems that exist there, i don't want to say all the old problems have been solved - but there's at least enough for me to be encouraged!
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 14:18 (four years ago) link
I'm only wary of classical enthusiasts who poo-poo contemporary composers. (That's most of them, I guess.)
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 March 2019 14:34 (four years ago) link
dislike noe but his new one looks great :\
― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:07 (four years ago) link
i'm not sure how "ben shapiro is an idiot and a philistine" was taken to mean "there are no great artists who were or are fascists".
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:08 (four years ago) link
obviously ben shapiro is not wagner or hamsun.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:09 (four years ago) link
He's Daffy Duck in the era when Daffy just existed to be pissed off by Bugs Bunny. I miss the old loony Daffy.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:17 (four years ago) link
ben shapiro is clearly an idiot, i don't know him or care to know him enough to judge whether or not he is a philistine.
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:26 (four years ago) link
He can't be a philistine - he's too stupid to have tastes, whether good or bad.
― grawlix (unperson), Saturday, 30 March 2019 15:37 (four years ago) link
What a sad shame this shitbird couldn't eat his fried chicken in peace and quiet. Guess there are consequences for those that incite the harassment of parents of murdered children. Glad he is being sued and I hope the Sandy Hook parents take everything. pic.twitter.com/PkkmhKPB1a— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) March 30, 2019
― gbx, Saturday, 30 March 2019 16:02 (four years ago) link
Ben Shapiro is instagram influencer adjacent.
― Yerac, Saturday, 30 March 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
Ben is obsessed with AOC because seeing someone nearly 6 years younger than him (who didn’t even go to Harvard) have such a massive effect on the political discourse reminds him that all his past precociousness has fizzled out and he’s basically a 35 year old youtuber. pic.twitter.com/0z3XkZmStr— Insincere Hemingway (@theatlasofworld) March 30, 2019
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 1 April 2019 06:35 (four years ago) link
tbh, i can kind of relate.
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Monday, 1 April 2019 06:36 (four years ago) link
that tweet fair point, but let's not overlook the occam's razor explanation: that aoc makes ben incredibly horny and he's v mad and confused about it
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 09:47 (four years ago) link
bg otm, she confuses a lot of the fash like that
― gyac, Monday, 1 April 2019 09:54 (four years ago) link
Fascism means never having to say you're horny
― The Xylems of the Limes (Noodle Vague), Monday, 1 April 2019 09:56 (four years ago) link
Seems degrading to say that the reason right wingers are obsessed with AOC isn’t bc she’s a dynamic young political figure championing causes diametrically opposed to their own but bc she’s so sexy and maybe says more about you than whoever you’re claiming is blinded by her hotness.
― Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:05 (four years ago) link
https://preview.redd.it/5uby0cbq2wo21.png?width=807&auto=webp&s=02f49257124f2cee1b18e8615c40a30b75a606cc
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:06 (four years ago) link
I don’t think that’s quite the smoking gun you think it is.
― Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:09 (four years ago) link
i don't think 'no it is YOU who is the horny one!' is quite the comeback you think it is either
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:11 (four years ago) link
I admire Ben Shapiro's stance on boiling down complex issues
― The Xylems of the Limes (Noodle Vague), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:13 (four years ago) link
Conservatism means being furious, scared, and horny all at the same time pic.twitter.com/4ozTbtPphI— Ryan Boyd (@ryanaboyd) March 14, 2019
― Frederik B, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:15 (four years ago) link
a bold stance from mr ben 'facts don't care about your feelings' shapiro xp
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:16 (four years ago) link
I agree with Mordy that arguments intended to expose the libidinous frailty of yr enemy are, at best, double-edged
― The Xylems of the Limes (Noodle Vague), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:17 (four years ago) link
claiming that her opponents find her hot is degrading to her even if you think you're safely imputing those beliefs to the opposition and not touting them yourself if you can't see that idk even if it's true (maybe especially if it's true) maybe they are obsessed with her bc she's v charismatic (aka appealing) and is promoting policies that they hate something that wouldn't reduce her to a sex object but make her like any other politician someone who is hated bc of what they stand for not bc of how they look. obama was a v handsome man but u didn't see ppl continually claiming that he was hated bc they just found him too sexy + it confused them (which is such a fucking stupid claim on its face - ben garrison is using her "sex appeal" to degrade her not bc his loins are so on fire he cannot but daydream over her visage).
― Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:19 (four years ago) link
like give her the minimum credit that they hate her bc she is a political threat and not bc they want to fuck her
― Mordy, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
Mordy OTM
― Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:21 (four years ago) link
whynotboth.jpg
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
yeah, weird that a bunch of straight white conservative men weren't claiming that obama was too sexy, good point
aoc is a very charismatic personality who has been a tireless, and very effective, advocate for a lot of leftwing policies that have been kept out of mainstream american political thought for too long
she's also an attractive young woman who has been just as effective in rebutting a bunch of shit thrown her way by those same straight white conservative men, and i don't think it's too much of a stretch to imagine that those people, who by and large expect suberservient treatment from women, have found it confusing in their bathing suit area
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:24 (four years ago) link
There's nothing wrong with making men horny, I do it all the time. And when the attacks on AOC has consisted of stuff like her dancing to Lisztomania, with the accompanying tweets claiming this showed she was completely incapable of being a politician, it's quite straightforward to think they drew that conclusion because they thought sexy = unpolitical. Which is basically saying their horniness confused them.
― Frederik B, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:28 (four years ago) link
i can't find it within myself to take umbrage at the implication that ben shapiro is a hypocrite of low moral character
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link
it's not about giving _her_ credit, it's about giving _them_ credit for being motivated by anything beyond personal feelings, and truthfully i don't think they deserve that credit
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:53 (four years ago) link
I...agree with Fred
― Simon H., Monday, 1 April 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
otm xp
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link
xp about making men horny all the time?
― Neil S, Monday, 1 April 2019 12:56 (four years ago) link
keeping men horny and confused is just good praxis
― Simon H., Monday, 1 April 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
right-wing memes consistently portray AOC as a ditz (90% of them are just recycled "dumb blonde" jokes), I think Fredrik is right here
― frogbs, Monday, 1 April 2019 13:14 (four years ago) link
They’re monsters. I think it’s inappropriate to talk about who might find her attractive and whatever though—even from the standpoint of being critical of the alt right. She isn’t inviting this kind of attention. She is just trying to be a member of congress and advocate for her constituents.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 1 April 2019 13:16 (four years ago) link
She’s facing gender based attacks from the right. Period. Their psychological motivations aren’t worth discussifn.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 1 April 2019 13:17 (four years ago) link
It’s gross to think about and irrelevant.
i just assume that we're affirming fred's statement that he is constantly making men horny.
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Monday, 1 April 2019 13:36 (four years ago) link
posted without comment
I'm at a point in my online life where my mind is so broken I genuinely can't tell if the artist believes this is a good or bad thing pic.twitter.com/tuCfRsoSzY— please @ me for access to my powerful brain (@ChrisCaesar) March 31, 2019
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 13:43 (four years ago) link
There might be a bit of projection at work here too, given how the conservative movement has deployed/manipulated the sexual attractiveness of women on their side
― rob, Monday, 1 April 2019 16:59 (four years ago) link
― Simon H., Monday, April 1, 2019 6:11 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― moose; squirrel (silby), Monday, 1 April 2019 17:07 (four years ago) link
updating my entry for fred on my xls with this new info
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:14 (four years ago) link
Is Alessandra Mussolini alt-right?
― pomenitul, Monday, 1 April 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link
i think being a direct descendant, and fanatical admirer of, benito mussolini makes you about as trad-right as it’s possible to be
― mr greta t. gremlin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
There's nothing wrong with making men horny, I do it all the time.
ILX politics threads being exhibit A of this most unlikely phenomenon.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 1 April 2019 18:46 (four years ago) link
I actually think the horniness is really caused by their sublimated attraction to left-wing political ideas.
I am serious about this--a lot of conservatism boils down to a kind of Protestant disciplinary project (both disciplining others and oneself). Resisting AOC's "hotness" as a principle of how serious (ie, Elected and not Damned) they are is very important.
― ryan, Monday, 1 April 2019 19:33 (four years ago) link
― Frederik B, Monday, April 1, 2019 8:28 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i love this so much
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 1 April 2019 23:14 (four years ago) link
i didn't catch it before when i swooped in to scold everyone
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/white-power-symbol-found-after-fire-destroys-social-justice-center-n990271
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 13:08 (four years ago) link
checking out a later period Steven Stapleton record on Youtube and hey look there's fawning videos about how Peterson and Shapiro DESTROY their critics right there in the recommendations for no fucking reason at all
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-02/youtube-executives-ignored-warnings-letting-toxic-videos-run-rampant
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Thursday, 4 April 2019 23:56 (four years ago) link
I use youtube exclusively for watching footage of vintage jazz performances on dutch TV and I get the exact same thing. I don't even know who the fuck Peterson is, and I barely know Shapiro except to know that they're both pricks.
― pippin drives a lambo through the gates of isengard (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 5 April 2019 00:00 (four years ago) link
i live in hope that at some point somebody will enforce some accountability on google for their extremely broken site. it's a farfetched hope, but still important to have.
i guess i might theoretically at some point quit using youtube the way i quit using facebook, but i don't see it happening anytime soon. it's unlikely enough that i am unwilling to even pretend it's a practical option.
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Friday, 5 April 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
when i go to youtube logged out in a private browsing window the #1 thing it invariably suggests i might enjoy is videos of black men receiving large prison sentences
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 5 April 2019 03:42 (four years ago) link
obama was a v handsome man but u didn't see ppl continually claiming that he was hated bc they just found him too sexy + it confused them (which is such a fucking stupid claim on its face
― Mordy, Monday, April 1, 2019 1:19 PM (four days ago
4 years ago I would have thought it was crazy, but now the idea of lots of right wing straight white men finding him kinda sexy and being infuriated about that doesn't seem so far fetched. Oftentimes in right wing paranoid sex fantasies about wives being stolen, the man is the centre of obsessively particular attention, the woman matters a lot less.
Take advice from someone who has endless morbid curiousity, never type into a search engine Rule 34 followed by Trump, Obama or Nicki Minaj.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 April 2019 19:24 (four years ago) link
there was a right-wing thing that obama was a gay sex worker and michelle obama was a trans woman so i think we can assume that a lot of republicans are psychosexual nightmares
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Friday, 5 April 2019 19:26 (four years ago) link
See also: I believe dominatrixes that look like stereotypical "SJWs" are popular because some men find them scary.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 April 2019 19:29 (four years ago) link
Also, just read Robert E. Howard's story "The Hyena" last week. Full of racist/masochist fantasy.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 April 2019 21:07 (four years ago) link
I guess he needed an outlet from his usual work
― Boles to the Wolds (Noodle Vague), Friday, 5 April 2019 21:10 (four years ago) link
"Cannibal!" I ejaculated, involuntarily.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 5 April 2019 21:15 (four years ago) link
It's possibly more pronounced in "the Hyena" than anything else. I haven't read all his stories (just scratched the surface really) but some REH scholar listed a bunch of his sorta s&m stories and this one stood out.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 5 April 2019 21:19 (four years ago) link
i have no idea which paranoid right-wingers are queer (though i have my suspicions about milo)
but there is, for the record, a long historical tradition of not considering women to be people
― Jaki Liebowitz (rushomancy), Friday, 5 April 2019 23:55 (four years ago) link
in DC
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/White-Nationalists-Interrupt-Author-Chant-This-Land-Is-Our-Land-at-Politics-and-Prose-509170021.html
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 28 April 2019 15:00 (four years ago) link
New Zealand: alt right terrorist attacks house of worship of religious minority -- country immediately changes gun laws.
USA: alt right terrorist attacks house of worship of religious minority -- meh.
― viborg, Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:45 (four years ago) link
B-b-but maybe this time Trump will actually backpedal on his equivocating over alt right terrorism. Or was it really just about a statue all along?
― viborg, Sunday, 28 April 2019 23:46 (four years ago) link
I think i was a bit set off by the Guardian's fawning interview with Bret Easton Ellis:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/apr/28/bret-easton-ellis-millennials-white-interview
Stfu old dude, your ideas are 30 years out of date. "I TRIGGER millennials. Out there sticking it to the man. Or the woman of color. Whatever, they're TRIGGERED."
― viborg, Monday, 29 April 2019 00:02 (four years ago) link
nice gammon reference though:
His manner is warm, and his face – pinker and heavier now than at the height of his literary fame, and topped with hair that is silver – bears a near-permanent smile.
― breastcrawl, Monday, 29 April 2019 14:37 (four years ago) link
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/04/28/ignore-the-poway-synagogue-shooters-manifesto-pay-attention-to-8chans-pol-board/
― El Tomboto, Monday, 29 April 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rosiegray/katie-mchugh
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 2 May 2019 06:17 (four years ago) link
Most interesting for the view into the conservative media pipeline
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 2 May 2019 06:19 (four years ago) link
It's fascinating. But I'm struggling to feel any sympathy for her, not that I should and not that the piece really asks us to.
― Tiltin' My Lens Photography (stevie), Thursday, 2 May 2019 10:35 (four years ago) link
I not only struggle with sympathy for people like her, but I honestly struggle with the idea that there should even be any sympathy, or redemption, rehabilitation or forgiveness.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:00 (four years ago) link
It sounds like she's shafted her chances of getting much meaningful work for the moment. As with that ex-Nazi poet, if you don't believe in redemption then there's something seriously fucking wrong with you
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
...not that she's redeemed yet - for a start, it's unclear what her current political beliefs actually are
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:22 (four years ago) link
The fact that she burned her "journalism" career to the ground is an unambiguously good thing, and it's just a shame she didn't take more people down with her.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:26 (four years ago) link
The one thing I know is that it's not up to me, or any other white person, to decide whether or not a racist or a nazi has redeemed themselves.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:37 (four years ago) link
Not quite.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:42 (four years ago) link
of course not, it's a committee decision
― j., Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:55 (four years ago) link
What do we mean by 'redeemed'? Is this different from forgiveness? I do think she should take accountability and forgive herself, but I'm not sure how anyone is in a position to proclaim redemption.
― jmm, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:10 (four years ago) link
would you tell the prodigal son to get to fuck, is what this boils down to
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:12 (four years ago) link
https://www.history.com/.image/ar_16:9%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cg_faces:center%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_768/MTU3ODc5MDgzNzUxNjQ2OTQz/diorite-stela-with-the-code-of-hammurabi-2.jpg
― pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:16 (four years ago) link
If he showed up wearing a swastika armband? Yeah.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:23 (four years ago) link
But the point is, he has renounced the armband
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:26 (four years ago) link
Perhaps he was just getting it cleaned because it had egg on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvuNBssXG8
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:34 (four years ago) link
Which article did you read? She hasn't renounced anything - she's just realized open racism isn't the rocket ride to riches and glory she thought it was. At no point does she say that her core beliefs have changed. She's still a right-wing hack, just one no one will hire because she was photographed standing next to literal Nazis.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link
Oh, the fun starts at about 6:45
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 12:22 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:38 (four years ago) link
it's unclear what her current political beliefs actually are
this was what mattered to me, to the extent that anything about her did. as she never breathed a word of them or even really described what she thought was wrong w her old ones i suspect she's gone back to being a "conservative" and pretending the rest of it came out of nowhere. as milo said tho the view into the mechanism was interesting
as for forgiveness and redemption, one is a thing you can only decide yourself whether to offer or not and the other is screenwriting jargon
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:38 (four years ago) link
Wake me when one of these bigots does their 180 and reforms when they’re on the ascent or at their career peak or haven’t suffered repercussions.
― omar little, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:42 (four years ago) link
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:43 (four years ago) link
Let the cancelled bury the cancelled.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:44 (four years ago) link
hate to get biblical again but saul needed the blinding light to give him that little kick
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:45 (four years ago) link
anyway all of this is very utopian and in all probability this person is still horrible. but the principle should be that forgiveness is always possible imo - with the possibility varying according to the crime
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:50 (four years ago) link
I want to add that this is “better” than if she remained a rabid alt-righter and it’s cool she shared emails, but this is also predictable and she wasn’t brainwashed and a lot of it feels like getting back at her old bosses, albeit with the juicy context that these old bosses are right wing extremists.
― omar little, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:52 (four years ago) link
The son of the Strmfrnt guy comes close to some sort of redemption, cutting ties with his whole family, renouncing his former racist ideology, working iirc to pull people out of that world. People who sort of say sorry after they've been fired and blacklisted, fuck them until they put their money where their mouth is. Forgiveness is always possible, but it's not necessary.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:56 (four years ago) link
imago otm
― pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 13:57 (four years ago) link
That McHugh piece...I am confused by the amount of pics of her. And the first big close up where you can't help but notice a wig? and the eyebrows? but both go unmentioned in the piece even though it talks about her appearance a lot. It's a weird choice.
― Yerac, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:01 (four years ago) link
Yeah, the eyebrows were ... notable.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:01 (four years ago) link
forgiveness has to be earnt of course, it doesn't automatically happen if you lie low
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:03 (four years ago) link
I am confused by the amount of pics of her.
otm this was ridiculous.
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:04 (four years ago) link
just came here to post exactly what yerac did, wtf
― michael keaton IS jim thirlwell IN ‘foetaljuice’ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:04 (four years ago) link
we've been through this, the kid is not my son, if some ex-nazi shows up at my door i'm not going to kill the fatted calf for them. the best they'll get is "oh, well, good for you, have a nice life". what do they want from me, a personal reference to put on their job application at k-mart? no, i don't know them, it's not my place to "forgive" them nor is my "forgiveness" meaningful or relevant, because their personal conversion does basically nothing to address any of the systemic problems that are of most concern to me. if they want to help address those problems, i'm fine with that, but "i'm not a nazi anymore lol please give me a job" isn't going to drive me to donate to their gofundme.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:05 (four years ago) link
She was going broke and could barely afford the expenses incurred by her Type 1 diabetes.
Her “redemption” can be summarized in this one quote.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:08 (four years ago) link
I was kinda confused (as a diabetic myself) how she'd gone so long without being diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes - which typically starts in childhood - without dying.
Also, yeah, the wig and paste-on eyebrows were very strange. I guess she's trying to disguise her appearance because she's running from her ex-Nazi pals, or wants to be able to tell a potential future employer "No, that's not me, that's someone else with the same name as me"?
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:09 (four years ago) link
my brother developed type 1 diabetes aged like 17/18
― imago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
Maybe she has no body hair.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
yeah, alopecia was my first thought - as yerac says tho, it seems weird not to mention it in the piece if it's going to be accompanied with a series of photos which really highlight the fakeness of her hair and eyebrows
― michael keaton IS jim thirlwell IN ‘foetaljuice’ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:12 (four years ago) link
I was curious about he diabetes, too, and found this:
Millions of people around the world live with diabetes or know someone living with diabetes. The majority have type 2 diabetes, but an important minority have type 1 diabetes (~5%). Contrary to popular belief, type 1 diabetes is not a childhood disease. It occurs at every age, in people of every race, and of every shape and size. In fact, there are more adults who have type 1 diabetes than children, although it was previously known as juvenile diabetes.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:14 (four years ago) link
And fuck this prodigal son biblical shit. The prodigal son was selfish, greedy, and wasteful. Young and dumb at worst. I don’t recall the prodigal son attacking the poor/immigrants and spouting racist ideas. You do that kind of stuff, you have to do more than show up back at the house to be forgiven.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:16 (four years ago) link
There seems to be a misunderstanding here. imago was positing a general principle, not saying that it currently applies to Katie McHugh.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:19 (four years ago) link
That's interesting, Josh. I'm Type 2, but my dad was Type 1 and was diagnosed when he was 3, so I've always known of it as something that shows up when you're a kid. He died about 15 years ago, when he was 56.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:33 (four years ago) link
― goole, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
xpost Sorry to hear that. I know multiple middle school or older kids with type 1, one with crazy number swings that are hard to manage; his parents get alerts and more or less have to wake up several times a night, as needed, to get him juice boxes or things to help regulate his sugar. And at the other end, my wife works with someone who has been type 1 who is now a body builder that more or less subsists, for the sake of convenience, on an all-meat diet. It all sounds really tough and scary.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:46 (four years ago) link
the important parts of this story (still reading thru it) are the looks into the pipeline that puts these people in the public eye. ie the back-of-house people doing the hiring, who are ensconced in well-funded institutions like GMU/Mercatus or have long careers in RW media going back to the 70s
the fate and future career of this particular individual is of absolutely no concern to me, and i have no standing to 'redeem' her regardless. there is an unlimited supply of dead-eyed white women saying racist shit on twitter, should ownership & management need another 'star' to churn up and burn out, which they will, and already have since this one flamed out
― goole, Thursday, 2 May 2019 14:50 (four years ago) link
breitbart not offering health insurance leaps out at me on an ideological level
― maura, Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:09 (four years ago) link
The more alt-right people that become ex alt-right, the better. I prefer them when they are ex alt-right
― anvil, Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:09 (four years ago) link
xpotm, I wonder where they turned to for insurance...
― rob, Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:10 (four years ago) link
The thing is, every time I read a descriptor of any of the characters in this story, and it reads like
Taylor calls himself a “white advocate” and has written that “When blacks are left entirely to their own devices, Western civilization — any kind of civilization — disappears."
I just want to take baseball bats to these people. They aren't "prodigal sons", they are white supremacists shielded by white privilege. They regret nothing except they got caught. They are a huge part of the reason why this world is so sick and wrong, and I won't shed a tear of sadness for anything they suffer until, at least, every POC in prison on non-violent drugs charges is free.
― Tiltin' My Lens Photography (stevie), Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:40 (four years ago) link
i get absolutely zero indication (from anything in this article) that she truly gives af about her associations and actions beyond how it's affected her bottom line monetarily and psychologically.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:47 (four years ago) link
anyhow, kudos to Gray for really digging into these networks, how weirdly incestuous and unconventional they are while having such outsized impact.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 2 May 2019 15:54 (four years ago) link
she can burn for all I care, how about fewer profiles on these pieces of shit once they realize they've ruined their lives and more pieces outing them for the disgusting wastes of flesh that they are
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
baseball bats otm, in other words
why was she fired from breitbart for the tweet about muslims and not that mcdonald's tweet? the latter made me feel more enraged
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:12 (four years ago) link
probably timing
― the late great, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:14 (four years ago) link
it's probably boring "narratively" to cover people who have been quietly being decent and operating from a baseline of empathy and fighting the good fight vs profiling those who were "once" gleeful monsters and sociopaths and who have now returned to the light, so i guess i'm not surprised that she's getting this piece with nicely fashioned photos of her looking contrite and prim. but obv i don't trust that this is genuine beyond a fear at being unemployable in the future and having a strong dislike for those she feels betrayed her. it seems like a quick turn from
― omar little, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:20 (four years ago) link
the article is kind of interesting in revealing how someone ends up going down that path.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
This tweet comes in the middle of an interesting thread which is worth reading in full, but it stands out:
I tweeted a few months ago that every GOP politician is at most three handshakes away from a Nazi. I wasn't joking. It wasn't hyperbole.— Angus Johnston (@studentactivism) May 2, 2019
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:24 (four years ago) link
"I am very concerned with your racially-tinged tweets, the fact that most of the American Nazi Party members follow you and commune with you, and the fact that most of the Ku Klux Klan accounts follow you and do the same. What is going on here?”“WTF,” Bannon wrote back within minutes. “Katie call me ASAP.”“I think you are a white supremacist. Am I correct?” Darby wrote. “He is not a parody account at all and you know it.”“Brandon stop,” Bannon responded.
“WTF,” Bannon wrote back within minutes. “Katie call me ASAP.”
“I think you are a white supremacist. Am I correct?” Darby wrote. “He is not a parody account at all and you know it.”
“Brandon stop,” Bannon responded.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:39 (four years ago) link
As McHugh recalls it, Bannon looked at Saucier, sizing him up. He asked, “Who do you work for? Peter?” referring to Brimelow. Saucier, smiling, said no. Bannon said, “Far to the right, right?” Saucier responded in the affirmative. “AmRen? American Renaissance?” Saucier said, “Yes, sir,” and Bannon put his hand on his shoulder and said, “Well, we’re all fighting the same fight.”
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 16:43 (four years ago) link
Darby fucking sucks too
this is otm
The notion that the alt-right is some kind of foreign body infecting the mainstream conservative movement rather than a natural outgrowth from it implies a large substantive difference between the ideas quoted here and the ideas above. I can't find one. https://t.co/h6JYAVXkAJ— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) May 2, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:00 (four years ago) link
I didn't even notice the eyebrows when I first read that...I wish I hadn't gone back to look.
― WmC, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:05 (four years ago) link
god that is so weird
― omar little, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:08 (four years ago) link
Just want to point out re diabetes chat - Theresa May was (weirdly) misdiagnosed as 2, but was actually 1 and was nearly 60 at that point.https://www.diabetes.co.uk/celebrities/theresa-may.html
― gyac, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:15 (four years ago) link
It's like she skinned another human for their eyebrows:https://i.imgur.com/TLAH92e.png
― joygoat, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:28 (four years ago) link
She felt herself on the wrong side of a class divide. Allegheny’s students seemed wealthy; she wasn’t. She couldn’t join a sorority because she couldn’t afford the dues, she said. Her sense of outsiderness gave her a bold pen, and she was already going to extremes. She published reactionary opinion pieces for the campus newspaper, such as one arguing that the “homosexual movement, a liberal sub–faction, proliferates like melanoma.” “I could have tempered my message, things like that,” she told me. But she didn’t.
lol @ the idea that there's a tempered, acceptable version of that statement
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:37 (four years ago) link
I assume it would be some variation on 'what you do in the comfort of your own bedroom is none of my business BUT DON'T YOU DARE DRAG THE CHILDREN INTO THIS!'
― pomenitul, Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link
“I could have tempered my message, things like that,”
yeah this kinda gives the game away. wonder if Gray just didn't press her much on where she currently stands on the standard issue hate-mongering in mainstream conservatism, or just chose not to include it in the piece.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 2 May 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
i don't know why it needed to be framed as a redemption piece. it could have just been an article about someone's journey into the alt right.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:01 (four years ago) link
there was a ton in there that was interesting/revelatory as to the closeness between these different right wing orgs
the redemption angle doesn't play, there's vague overtures towards owning what she's said in the past and taking responsibility for it, but what's she really doing except...saying vague things? they can photograph her like a wide-eyed innocent but trying to push it slightly towards the "a corrupted person comes to their senses" is fitting a square peg into a round hole. with her right-wing shit she escalated herself, she wasn't escalated by others.
― omar little, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:07 (four years ago) link
i know dick all about Allegheny College but man just imagine feeling aggrieved & inferior to wealthy greek assholes in college and deciding to saddle up w the likes of... tucker carlson and richard spencer.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:14 (four years ago) link
The video of Tommy Robinson getting milkshaked in Bury. So. Good. pic.twitter.com/3HpxtxtZH2— Henry Langston (@Henry_Langston) May 2, 2019
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
That Union Square egging was great too.
― jmm, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:18 (four years ago) link
yeah he must be furious and embarrassed to have millions of his enemies talking about him
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
Milkshakes only make him stronger, more powerful
― milkshake chuk (wins), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
That's actually the milkshaking in Warrington - the one in Bury was yesterday.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
He absorbs eggs and uses the albumen as fuel to make his hate burn ever brighter
― milkshake chuk (wins), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:25 (four years ago) link
So he can run away even faster from Lancastrians shouting "Are you a ponce?" at him.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:26 (four years ago) link
social media has been a non-stop disaster for the right - thank god we have it, otherwise how would we fight them?
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:27 (four years ago) link
And your point is, caller?
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:29 (four years ago) link
The left is platforming the otherwise obscure Yaxley-Lennon by noting that he keeps getting publicly owned
― milkshake chuk (wins), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
fernando hierro with another hot take
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
aye it should be a half-brick instead of a milkshake, it's still good but
Hot Takes and Milkshakes
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:34 (four years ago) link
I just can't really see how this kind of attention is bad for a figure like TR. He doesn't even have to make his own viral videos etc.
That doesn't equate to condemning the act IRL - just I think he gets a net gain from any publicity.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
Call me a hapless boob but I'll take this over Newsnight spending 20 minutes trying to explain or understand the concerns of his followers.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:37 (four years ago) link
every response to a fascist brings attention to them though? i would agree with "just ignore him" as a policy if we were talking about the halcyon days of EDL demos in provincial cities with like 6 eejits turning up, but ol' yaxley-lennon the west brit has a sizable following
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:40 (four years ago) link
Yeah that’s a bolted horse
― milkshake chuk (wins), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
it's a bit chicken and egg but i find it hard to see how this strategy of mass sharing isn't beneficial ultimately. i mean, his rise is quite tied to social media and it's hard not to say that reaction to him is part of the cycle.
i mean, i'm not going to go to whatever underbelly and find out, but if i ask myself is he (a) desperate for this milkshake video to be taken down or (b) already using it or planning to use it for further promo, the answer seems fairly obvious.
he's top trending on twitter right now - the independent story comes up first with his electoral poster as the main pic. if lolling at this type of person on twitter stops them, why are they becoming more popular?
i'm not saying 'just ignore him' but it does seem like we maybe need to properly be selective about our behaviour, which seems almost impossible.
― FernandoHierro, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
some good news!
Facebook just banned Laura Loomer, Infowars, Paul Joseph Watson, and many more https://t.co/nKJwRbT4V7— Will Sommer (@willsommer) May 2, 2019
― Neil S, Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:45 (four years ago) link
"Milo" banned too, pour one out etc.
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, May 2, 2019 2:33 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
No half measures.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Thursday, 2 May 2019 18:50 (four years ago) link
The idea that throwing milkshakes at Tommy Robinson will just ignite his own followers misses that political violence is rooted in the far-right. They aren't retaliating when they assault minorities. They do so as thugs. Heavy street presence is what beats them back.— R.A.S | رابّيل (@abrownrabbit95) May 2, 2019
― Tiltin' My Lens Photography (stevie), Thursday, 2 May 2019 19:38 (four years ago) link
got a Washington Post alert that said "FB bans far-right figures like Milo, Farrakhan, etc," before getting a correction that changed "far-right" to "extremist," probably because a lot of people on the right complained about Farrakhan being called "far-right."
― i think ur a controp (voodoo chili), Thursday, 2 May 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
He’s so old. Is he still active on twitter?
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 2 May 2019 20:35 (four years ago) link
Alt-Right-adjacent ghouls freaked out that Farrakhan was finally correctly labeled as a figure on the right, and Wapo caved, shameful. pic.twitter.com/EFGQVMWzEP— Eli Valley (@elivalley) May 2, 2019
― i think ur a controp (voodoo chili), Thursday, 2 May 2019 22:45 (four years ago) link
So when will the WaPo correctly label Neil Gorsuch and Clarence Thomas as "extremists"?
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 2 May 2019 22:53 (four years ago) link
so i know the thread has moved on but i haven't, i want to talk a little more about forgiveness
i can't speak for anyone else but in my case when i don't forgive ex-nazis it's not because i'm cruel or vindictive or don't believe in giving people a second chance. i want to forgive people, particularly, for some odd reason, people who happen to look like me. forgiveness feels good to me. choosing not to be kind to someone who's down on their luck feels bad.
to not forgive is a struggle, it's something i have to remind myself to do, an unpleasant thing i've had to learn not to do over time. i remember when obama was elected and there were plenty of people who wanted to hold gwb and his administration accountable for all the things they did, and i was right there with the people dismissing them for being vindictive, saying his presidency was over, we can't be stuck in the past like the republicans were/are about clinton, no point in cadaver synods
that attitude didn't really work out, i don't think, in practice. in 2016, yeah, i wanted to forgive trump voters, wanted to heal. i've cut people out of my life who i love and didn't want to cut out of my life. i wanted to forgive them, but i couldn't, because there was no acknowledgment of wrongdoing, just a series of excuses accompanied by a dogged belief that they should be released from the consequences of their words and deeds. as of 2019, this has become a continuing decision which is painful on a continuing basis, an open wound i'm not allowing to heal.
because without contrition, i can't forgive, only excuse. with contrition things are different. the painful lesson i've had to learn is that white people apparently _do_ have the practical ability to "forgive" people for being nazis despite not the fact that white nationalism doesn't actually pose any sort of a threat to them. white people also, apparently, have the ability to absolve nazis of the consequences of their words and deeds. these are terrible things which need to stop. which means, again in practical terms, that i as a white person need to quit doing that.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Friday, 3 May 2019 07:06 (four years ago) link
rusho otm
― Tiltin' My Lens Photography (stevie), Friday, 3 May 2019 07:57 (four years ago) link
Good post, rush.
In my experience, it's the other way around: forgiveness does not come easily to most, even when contrition is involved. And it is indeed a necessary condition – unless you're, say, a practicing Christian, there's no reason to even attempt forgiveness without it. I doubt anyone itt believes otherwise.
― pomenitul, Friday, 3 May 2019 08:24 (four years ago) link
if you can't trust ppl not be nazis I don't know how you can trust ppl to have a sensible working idea of accountability
― ogmor, Friday, 3 May 2019 08:30 (four years ago) link
"Forgiveness" (more or less) of the Confederacy is what started the slow unravelling of the American experiment, with the greatest expansion of human rights in our history soon followed by decades of contraction, with the ideological divide increasingly codified.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 May 2019 12:03 (four years ago) link
truth
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 3 May 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago
i'm more cynical and would argue that the american experiment was a ticking time bomb from the start. reconstruction failed to heal the wounds caused by founding a nation with race-based chattel slavery encoded into its constitution but i'm not sure the damage was actually reparable
white northerners' abandonment of black lives - almost always justified on grounds other than racial grounds - accompanied by the acceptance of the "lost cause" propaganda lie (and its accompanying lies, like the whopper of "the civil war wasn't about slavery") - did serve to give the south victory in defeat.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Friday, 3 May 2019 12:41 (four years ago) link
even when i was a practicing christian (which experience taught me a lot about the power of forgiveness) i found it meaningless to forgive someone who didn't believe they'd done anything wrong. i typically outsourced that work to god, who i took to be more equipped for that sort of thing.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Friday, 3 May 2019 12:45 (four years ago) link
I don't know what "forgiveness" is, short of an abrogation of the call for revenge, our surest sense of justice. To forgive is to concede our role in realizing justice, to let someone else worry about making things right. Whether the person is contrite is only psychologically relevant.
I don't know what the context of this discussion is, though---whether one should forgive racists who seek forgiveness, particularly if one is of the same race as the racist? We wonder: how to make things right? And are we well-disposed to do so, or are we likely to remain complicit in injustice despite our best intentions? The making things right is what matters; forgiveness comforts the wrongdoer, but does that confort contribute to making things right?
― L'assie (Euler), Friday, 3 May 2019 13:56 (four years ago) link
Forgiveness can comfort the wronged, too. It enables the letting go of corrosive resentments.
― d'ILM for Murder (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 3 May 2019 14:13 (four years ago) link
Booming post, rusho.
The legitimate transition from an embrace of Nazi ideals to genuine contrition wrt someone who's already well into adulthood would involve such a level of sustained work and honest reflection that, while I wouldn't say it's impossible, it seems unlikely to happen terribly often. People generally do not change unless they really really want to, unless they see genuine value in becoming a whole other person. Far too often, the attitude of these ex-Nazis seems to be more like 'oops, I might have gone a little bit too far with or been a little too vocal about my extremist views, my bad' rather than a wholesale repudiation of who they were (and likely, to some extent, still are). So, yeah, my own forgiveness is going to be pretty hard-won in those circumstances.
― Ce Ce Penistongs (Old Lunch), Friday, 3 May 2019 14:53 (four years ago) link
whether one should forgive racists who seek forgivenes
My problem with foregiving these racists is that, when they suffer slight consequences for their racist beliefs, such as a loss of job (rather than loss of teeth/jaw/ability to eat solid food like they deserve), what they invariably are seeking is not forgiveness, but another job.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 3 May 2019 15:19 (four years ago) link
Eye for an eye in the sense of proportional justice is also encouraged as a practicing Christian, no?Even under a secular context, "tit-for-tat then forgive" is a game theoretic solid strategy.I feel like the emboldening of alt-right sensibilities is the result of broader civilized culture's forgetting the tit-for-tat part and skipping directly to forgive.
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link
I feel perfectly comfortable with not forgiving any of these people, actually. By the time they go on their journey of mistakes and regrets they’ve likely already contributed in some way to making another innocent person’s life worse. I don’t feel bad about this at all - they don’t know I exist and I don’t owe forgiveness to anyone who’s spent time spreading hate and bigotry which, as I think we all know by now, goes way beyond words.
― gyac, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:14 (four years ago) link
acc to jewish tradition you can't forgive someone for something they did to someone else
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link
(even god cannot. if you harm another person you need forgiveness from them - no matter how much you repent to god he cannot grant it.)
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:17 (four years ago) link
I guess it’s arguable someone in a white nationalist/racist/ Neo-Nazi movement agitating publicly for their aims is affecting all of us?
― gyac, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:18 (four years ago) link
that's true but obviously some people are affected a lot more than others
― silverfish, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
if you can demonstrate real harm maybe but i don't really recall atm whether a category call "crimes against the community" really exist in the sense that you're talking about xp and nb that even "real harm" has to be an actual real thing. not liking what they're agitating for (even if it's pure evil) doesn't rise to the level of a sin against you. it would have to be an actual damage (it could be an emotional damage but it would have to be direct + personal).
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:26 (four years ago) link
iirc in one of Wiesel's books he talks about a Nazi who begs him for forgiveness and Wiesel rejects him on the basis that the Nazi never harmed him personally and he can't forgive the Nazi for the harm he did to other Jews - i think this is consistent with the laws of forgiveness as i remember them (disclaimer that i haven't read Wiesel or seriously studied said laws since high school).
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
as for how we treat ex-nazis as a society, I feel like there should be some path to redemption no matter how far you've gone, if only because it might encourage some racists to actually change their beliefs rather than digging in even deeper
― silverfish, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:31 (four years ago) link
i think there is a path to redemption. keep your head down, take a low profile job, maybe change your name if it was particularly egregious. idk that we need a route to redemption for former nazis who still want to be public figures tho.
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:32 (four years ago) link
maybe if the kind of public figure they want to transition into is explicitly doing anti-nazi work for the rest of their life
― Mordy, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
if you can demonstrate real harm maybe but i don't really recall atm whether a category call "crimes against the community" really exist in the sense that you're talking about xp and nb that even "real harm" has to be an actual real thing.
― gyac, Friday, 3 May 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link
This is the only path to forgiveness for them imo.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 3 May 2019 18:50 (four years ago) link
I do believe that everyone should have the opportunity for redemption/rehabilitation. I don't believe most people in need of redemption truly possess the patience/honesty/humility to see it through to fruition (and I don't think those on the path can safely declare they've reached its terminus until there's some general agreement from the world-at-large).
― Ce Ce Penistongs (Old Lunch), Friday, 3 May 2019 18:52 (four years ago) link
This TPM piece on the McHugh story is funny and somewhat interesting.
At least half of my time reading the piece I was thinking, why does this person merit a profile? As you probably know, I have little truck with the idea that we shouldn’t focus attention on horrible people. The whole idea that you accomplish anything by ignoring this stuff is something I’ve never bought into. But even in that world, she’s like a 4th tier generally ridiculous player. Really just a frivolous racist idiot. Reading the piece I wasn’t quite clear in what sense McHugh was even a journalist as opposed to someone who had a job for a far right publication and had a lot of racist tweets. And here I mean ‘journalist’ in the very thin sense in which I can accord the term to quite a few racists and habitual liars. Why am I reading this? There’s an element of coming of age narrative the story is presented with. But really it seems much more like she was another callow racist who zigged when she should have zagged and is not out of a job and broke and wants to change her story. In fairness, this version of the story doesn’t seem lost on the author of the article, Rosie Gray.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 4 May 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
Maybe not alt right exactly but close enough for me. A well done graphic breakdown of the Punisher skull aesthetic.
https://popula.com/2019/02/24/about-face/
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 7 May 2019 14:54 (four years ago) link
i complained about its failure to so much as mention don pendleton's "executioner" series last time it was posted, which got me an eye-roll, but i still think it's a pretty fucking critical oversight and will still complain about it
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 00:04 (four years ago) link
Wow at Laura Loomer having a meltdown on Alex jones show, and Alex Jones muted reaction is...."uh who is the crazy person on my show"
― anvil, Friday, 10 May 2019 21:22 (four years ago) link
Get yr Ben Shapiro self-own lulz here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VixqvOcK8E
― pomenitul, Saturday, 11 May 2019 15:58 (four years ago) link
i...i dont understand why he has a following. he's just a deeply unpleasant person to listen to.
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Saturday, 11 May 2019 16:18 (four years ago) link
Would love to hear more about these "the conservative halls of intelligentsia" where they're thrashing out new policies on healthcare.
― Ned Trifle X, Saturday, 11 May 2019 16:58 (four years ago) link
(xxp) The lesson is never get into slanging match with a guy from Paisley.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Saturday, 11 May 2019 17:01 (four years ago) link
Shapiro trying the classic motte and bailey approach, doesn't seem to work against tory disdain
Neil should have been better on the 'Ben Shapiro DESTROYS' better videos though, as they appear on his own website and Neil didn't seem aware of that
― anvil, Saturday, 11 May 2019 17:16 (four years ago) link
ben shapiro has ted cruz levels of anti-charisma
― adam the (abanana), Saturday, 11 May 2019 19:12 (four years ago) link
who is doing the violation
― j., Saturday, 11 May 2019 20:16 (four years ago) link
https://scontent.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60011454_576156412873747_2844152649358508032_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-4.fna&oh=6246d76ec9e16d8fde9e757c05bf7775&oe=5D70AAD1
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Saturday, 11 May 2019 20:57 (four years ago) link
Majority Report had great fun with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72kAibX4dJU
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, 11 May 2019 21:04 (four years ago) link
I was just scrolling through Facebook and saw an article that a relative posted. It was a USA Today article about Baltimore, MD being the most dangerous city in America. I clicked away from Facebook, but then wanted to go back and check out the article anyway. So I google up baltimore most dangerous city 2019 USA today. What was the first search result? Not USA Today, but amren.com!
Fuck Google.
― ☮ (peace, man), Monday, 13 May 2019 17:30 (four years ago) link
This is some really, really scary shit.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/josephbernstein/youtubes-newest-far-right-foul-mouthed-red-pilling-star-is
― Simon H., Monday, 13 May 2019 21:46 (four years ago) link
You weren't overstating it…
― pomenitul, Monday, 13 May 2019 21:52 (four years ago) link
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 13 May 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link
if you're looking for a conservative who can occasionally sound smart it's either him or Scott Adams
the other thing is despite this guy's constant whining about "media bias" you're apparently only 2 clicks away from a Ben Shapiro video no matter what you're searching for
― frogbs, Monday, 13 May 2019 22:01 (four years ago) link
D. M.1 month ago
This Soph kid is the physical manifestation of the Youtube algorithm after you accidentally click on one Joe Rogan interview
― frogbs, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
Wait, wait, this is just a kid. Let’s not go overboard with call out culture.
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:21 (four years ago) link
lol she definitely seems like she gives a shit about being called out
― Mordy, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:28 (four years ago) link
So from ~2014 until now her rich parents are just enabling this. Good to know!
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 14 May 2019 16:30 (four years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/15/tommy-robinson-sued-by-syrian-schoolboy-he-accused-of-assault
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 14:15 (four years ago) link
christchurch shooter and generation identity leader had more extensive contact than he let on:
Whew whew whew. Sellner was lying thru his teeth about only having sent the Christchurch shooter a thank-you note. Offered Tarrant a mtg, should he ever end up in Vienna. https://t.co/v2bkNaJbO4— Kate B. (@katebitz) May 14, 2019
― goole, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 19:10 (four years ago) link
might get in the way of his wedding plans to an american youtuber
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/apr/27/kootenai-county-gop-urges-feds-to-let-austrian-nat/
― goole, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 19:12 (four years ago) link
where are you guys on wearing new balance shoes? do people still associate them with the alt right?
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 15 May 2019 19:59 (four years ago) link
I wouldn't assume for the briefest moment someone wearing NB was trying to make a statement
― don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 20:10 (four years ago) link
There are a lot of clearer tells anyway imo
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 15 May 2019 21:31 (four years ago) link
i know it's useless and nearly completely unhelpful to even mention but i sometimes get terrified over this shit
― dyl, Thursday, 16 May 2019 03:05 (four years ago) link
some young homeless tweaker dudes once fucked with me downtown late at night, waving a knife around, saying only cops wore NB's. the more you know!
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Thursday, 16 May 2019 03:40 (four years ago) link
Soph uploaded a 12-minute video in which she seemed to be daring the platform to suspend her, knowing full well that it wouldn’t.“Susan, I’ve known your address since last summer,” Soph said, directly addressing YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. “I’ve got a Luger and a mitochondrial disease. I don’t care if I live. Why should I care if you live or your children? I just called an Uber. You’ve got about seven minutes to draft up a will. ... I’m coming for you, and it ain’t gonna be pretty.”
“Susan, I’ve known your address since last summer,” Soph said, directly addressing YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki. “I’ve got a Luger and a mitochondrial disease. I don’t care if I live. Why should I care if you live or your children? I just called an Uber. You’ve got about seven minutes to draft up a will. ... I’m coming for you, and it ain’t gonna be pretty.”
I wonder if Soph is serious about having a mitochondrial disease. (While the rest of the threat seems obv facetious, this seems like a pretty specific thing to make up.) Mito is a brutal thing to deal with for an adult; I can only imagine that knowing you have this as a young teenager could make you ... angry enough to spew hate speech on Youtube.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 May 2019 03:52 (four years ago) link
― Simon H., Monday, 13 May 2019 21:46 (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the comments are the scariest part tbh
― imago, Thursday, 16 May 2019 06:58 (four years ago) link
Yeah those comments are something. People posting white nationalist ideas seemingly under their public facebook profiles.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:20 (four years ago) link
But also this kid is pretty scary. A mind completely formed by memes.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
maybe the forces of light need to make it so that their tone is cool, pointed and erudite rather than hectoring? or am i turning into angela nagle here
― imago, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
these fuckers need to be taken apart, not moaned at
― imago, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:24 (four years ago) link
as for the kid...well we need other youtubers bringing the anti-establishment light, who are cooler and funnier than her, is the bottom line
― imago, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:25 (four years ago) link
we need Young Contrapoints
― imago, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:26 (four years ago) link
Is this irony fascism stuff the worst youth subculture in america history?
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:34 (four years ago) link
we need fewer people telling us what "we need"
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:42 (four years ago) link
Watched a couple of her videos and she is clearly performing a script someone else has written, and it basically states as much in the buzzfeed article. So would file this as a shitty new strategy rather than a generational crisis.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 16 May 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
For the online right, Soph is hailed as a child prodigy. She debates adults on the left with eloquence and she laughs nonchalantly at systems of power. When I asked Soph why she relies so heavily on irony, her reply was typically curt: “the current paradigm does not deserve to be taken seriously.”
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:00 (four years ago) link
Idk why i posted that. The role of “irony” with these people is weird. It’s really just contrarianism and shock value. It seems like it would burn itself out but it’s one of the most viral kinds of content seemingly
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:12 (four years ago) link
like, ok, sorry, rant time
we need, individually, collectively, to stay alive to the greatest extent possible. a lot of shit is fucked up right now, a lot of things are broken, and we're not going to be able to fix them now, or in 2020. it's going to take time, every day there's a new outrage, something sickening, depressing, something bad enough to make people question their will to live.
i had a lot of trouble when i started meditating and the advice was to "live in the moment", because the moment is, really, uniquely terrible. i'd rather be anywhere but here, politically speaking. but it still, in some weird way, gives me a sense of perspective. the world is a catastrophe, but that doesn't mean i have to catastrophize, or benefit from catastrophizing.
the best i can do is try and be myself, try and be kind, and take care of myself and those i care most about, and let others bear responsibility for whatever they choose to do. however that winds up playing out is outside my control.
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:19 (four years ago) link
mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length)Posted: May 16, 2019 at 12:57:27 PMWatched a couple of her videos and she is clearly performing a script someone else has written, and it basically states as much in the buzzfeed article. So would file this as a shitty new strategy rather than a generational crisis.Think ppl would be less scandalized by her and less likely to suggest she’s reading off someone else’s work if she were a young man and not a young woman but guess what young women can be fascists too.
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:23 (four years ago) link
she could be diana mitford or she could be a victim of child abuse (or, you know, both)
youtube opens up a whole new wealth of opportunities for people who want to abuse their children for vicarious fame
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:33 (four years ago) link
I'm sure she can be a fascist, but I can also tell when someone is reading from a script they didn't write.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:36 (four years ago) link
how?
― the late great, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:40 (four years ago) link
that seems like a cool talent to have, not one i possess
isn’t the right’s standard of eloquence ben shapiro? like...
― maura, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link
Is it their XX chromosomes that give it away
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:42 (four years ago) link
i dunno, intimating that a child fascist youtuber might be being directed by adults is not necessarily sexist to me? i would presume the same if we were talking about a boy also?
― findom haddie (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:44 (four years ago) link
the fact that she sounds like she is saying a lot of these words for the first time in her life is sort of a giveaway
― frogbs, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
the way there's an edit after every flowery, overstuffed line
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
i get it and maybe, perhaps probably, it's true. but i can assume if there are precocious kids who can craft compelling arguments about global warming and tolerance and what not then the opposite side must have those types as well, and these MAGA ppl sometimes start early and the virulence doesn't necessarily first emerge when they hit driver's license age.
― omar little, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:47 (four years ago) link
has anybody here ever heard kids reading from the bible at church
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
I mean, just listen to her. This is a child reading from a script. Who even bought her the prison clothes? https://youtu.be/iqw_Zo49IPY
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:55 (four years ago) link
Some people even think this girl is scripted too...
https://youtu.be/ulf82uRT3bA
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:58 (four years ago) link
Could be her own script tbf.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 16 May 2019 17:59 (four years ago) link
lol she’s obviously reading from a script but there’s no indication someone wrote it for her and she speaks w/ clarity, fluency and intent that suggests that she understands it entirely
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:02 (four years ago) link
says right there on the video
Written by SophCo-written by Vaporub Boy
― the late great, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:03 (four years ago) link
this was not my impression but i suppose impressions are subjective
Sometimes ppl know words from reading that they’ve never heard spoken aloud
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:07 (four years ago) link
Especially at that age.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:08 (four years ago) link
even at my age (40s)
― the late great, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:09 (four years ago) link
At any age tbh.
― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:10 (four years ago) link
Can confirm (30s). Just likelier at such a young age, is all.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:10 (four years ago) link
It seems like she understands what she is saying and I bet she shares those views and—maybe more significantly—that weird meme sensibility
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:11 (four years ago) link
14 is maybe old enough to form and articulate hot takes such as these, but she looks 10
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:13 (four years ago) link
Yeah but she is 14
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
just sayin
― husserl gang (rip van wanko), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:16 (four years ago) link
The 'imprisoned' girl strikes me as genuine, in that she seems like a bright kid who felt totally estranged from her peers in school, probably was teased, bullied and ostracized, with too little support from teachers or counselors. Chances are good her parents encouraged her to respond combatively and righteously, because this was their own method of coping with opposition, thus escalating the whole dynamic until it reached the place seen in her video. btw, she looks 14 to me.
Not sure how all this bitter socialization will play out for her in adulthood, but the odds are, not well. She's all primed to go down with her guns blazing. Figuratively, let's hope.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:24 (four years ago) link
― A is for (Aimless)
but one never really knows, does one? all this talk of "owning" and "destroying" by people who don't seem to have a firm grasp on the difference between fantasy and reality at the best of times...
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:35 (four years ago) link
The bile, black and white thinking, and the way that e.g. the "women are cool" video weirdly drifts between grand evolutionary psych pronouncements and bitter references to high school relationships and social dynamics do seem pretty credibly adolescent to me. Will admit that I would probably be less scandalized (and also less sympathetic) if she were a boy bc boys are obv monsters.
― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:39 (four years ago) link
that article was pretty terrible. I'm not sure what a lone example like this is really supposed to tell us
― rob, Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
alex jones seems pretty credibly adolescent to me!
― Flood-Resistant Mirror-Drilling Machine (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
I'm not sure what a lone example like this is really supposed to tell us
She didn't pick up this shtick in a vacuum and I guarantee you she'll inspire more heinous content (and worse) in the near future if she keeps or expands her audience base over time.
― Simon H., Thursday, 16 May 2019 18:51 (four years ago) link
There's been lots of good reporting on YouTube's complete fucked-upness (like the Bloomberg piece that's linked in the article), but this one doesn't tell us anything new. I probably wouldn't care if it weren't being presented as news, but since it is, this is borderline malpractice imo:
"Indeed, one of Soph’s messages seems to be that in a world where the adults who have grown rich through technology took the implications of that technology seriously, she wouldn’t exist. She’s a problem, she seems to be saying, of YouTube’s own making."
I get that the existence of this person is disturbing, but that doesn't make this a good article nor does it excuse sending what I assume is a shitload of traffic her way.
― rob, Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:03 (four years ago) link
I mean I def agree that the direct linking and "no, seriously, watch it" demand was not helpful
― Simon H., Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:08 (four years ago) link
The framing was the way a liberal media org can use compelling content that is politically off brand without owning it themselves
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:09 (four years ago) link
She debates adults on the left with eloquence and she laughs nonchalantly at systems of power. When I asked Soph why she relies so heavily on irony, her reply was typically curt: “the current paradigm does not deserve to be taken seriously.”
Curt. Also, facile and without content. This is just the usual adolescent scorn and hubris, but attached to a larger vocabulary and a more accomplished mimicry of maturity. All those youtube views are going to reinforce her like crazy and tend to freeze her into this persona far into adulthood. I would not want to be her, no matter how many followers she gathers or how much money she harvests off this notoriety.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
Hate to see someone frozen in adulthood with merely a high vocabulary and facile opinions
― Mordy, Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:15 (four years ago) link
Kind of like seeing the small town high school quarterback who led his team to the state 4A championship, never leaves town, and rests on his laurels.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 16 May 2019 19:21 (four years ago) link
she’s pretty much lil tay with extra fascism
― maura, Thursday, 16 May 2019 23:46 (four years ago) link
Where did this Imam Tawhidi grifter pop up from?
"the left is more violent than even Isis" lol
― anvil, Saturday, 25 May 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
odds are high that "the left" being referenced in that quote is some shit like Mao's Revolutionary Guard from 50 years ago, before almost every member of ISIS was born.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 25 May 2019 17:54 (four years ago) link
Off-topic, I made this, not sure what do do with it (Dankula has blocked me already) so I'm putting it here.
https://i.imgur.com/a4PXAMU.jpg
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 25 May 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
Given that he was telling his interviewer he was worried for her safety because "the left is more violent than even Isis" this seems unlikely!
― anvil, Saturday, 25 May 2019 18:54 (four years ago) link
Ah, then he must be referring to the imaginary "left" that lives in his mind alongside the dancing elves.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 25 May 2019 19:23 (four years ago) link
careful now, some of them have heavy milkshakery
― anvil, Saturday, 25 May 2019 19:35 (four years ago) link
A group of Mennonites showing up to protest the Klan is the most Ohio shit in the entire world and I'm loving it https://t.co/fb336pnNhH— Neverwinter DSA Co-Chair (@thepoeticgopher) May 25, 2019
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Saturday, 25 May 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link
Breitbart, Ben Shapiro "bridged the gap" between Fox News and Stormfront for this pair of white supremacist terrorists.That's the purpose the alt-right was created to serve, y'all. It's literally the reason they exist. pic.twitter.com/NjXY0ZSRKP— Gwen Snyder is uncivil (@gwensnyderPHL) May 27, 2019
Twitter thread charting the radicalization of a white nationalist via Facebook likes
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 07:08 (four years ago) link
I hear that Ben Shapiro isn't considered alt-right by people in the alt-right because he's Jewish.
― adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 09:57 (four years ago) link
he may not consider himself alt-right, but he is alt-right adjacent
― be the 2 chainz you want 2 see in the world (m bison), Tuesday, 28 May 2019 11:43 (four years ago) link
It's good that alt right types are engaging in sectarianism and authenticity arguments, but I don't think the rest of us need bother to distinguish.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 12:13 (four years ago) link
These stupid labels. He may not be their boyfriend but they sure are seeing a lot of each other.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 13:31 (four years ago) link
at least he says he is a Conservative, which is preferable to these 'classical liberal / the left left me' balloons.
― anvil, Tuesday, 28 May 2019 14:19 (four years ago) link
A federal judge has dropped all charges against three men who were indicted on conspiracy charges for inciting riots across California. The members of RAM were ordered to be released today in an LA courtroom. Reporting for @CourthouseNews— Nathan Solis (@CNSNathan) June 3, 2019
I know better than to expect courts to protect us from these shithead but goddamn this is infuriating
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
Jordan Peterson bringing us the real deal, an elite message board slated to render ILX obsolete:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/13/jordan-peterson-launches-anti-censorship-site-thinkspot
― pomenitul, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:19 (four years ago) link
That'll inevitably be a hub for coordinating harassment, so hope that people will be ready to contact whatever payment company they decide to use.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:32 (four years ago) link
Besides, I thought voat was already a '1st amendment alternative to reddit' or some such.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:39 (four years ago) link
I think the idea here is to replace Patreon. They're creating a structure for monetizing hatred and harassment.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:59 (four years ago) link
Hatreon
― dan selzer, Thursday, 13 June 2019 15:23 (four years ago) link
was a real site for neonazishttps://techcrunch.com/2017/12/12/how-hate-speech-crowdfunding-outfit-hatreon-crept-back-online/
― adam the (abanana), Friday, 14 June 2019 00:47 (four years ago) link
Dylan Roof used a Nazi go-between to send a 12-page letter to Tucker Carlson.
https://hatetrackers.blogspot.com/2019/06/mass-murderer-dylann-roof-using-outside.html?m=1
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 14 June 2019 02:30 (four years ago) link
Ben Shapiro is a complete fraud.What truly "pro-life" person would get mad over Trump not slaughtering hundreds of people to avenge a flying robot?Unfollow @benshapiro en masse.— Paul Joseph Watson (@PrisonPlanet) June 21, 2019
alt-right on alt-right crime
― anvil, Saturday, 22 June 2019 20:29 (four years ago) link
you hate to see it
― the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Saturday, 22 June 2019 20:59 (four years ago) link
let me wearily sigh and say that ben shapiro isn't really "alt-right" he's just a republican
― goole, Sunday, 23 June 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
Jordan Peterson bringing us the real deal, an elite message board slated to render ILX obsolete:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/13/jordan-peterson-launches-anti-censorship-site-thinkspot― pomenitul, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:19 (one week ago) Permalink
― pomenitul, Thursday, 13 June 2019 14:19 (one week ago) Permalink
this site will exclusively be used by neo-nazis and white supremacists and also like fred said be used as a site to coordinate harrassment.
good work, jordan peterson!
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 23 June 2019 21:50 (four years ago) link
truly restoring the integrity of the public sphere, just as in ancient athens. what a moron.
― Trϵϵship, Sunday, 23 June 2019 21:54 (four years ago) link
Once the integrity of the public sphere has been restored, a true marketplace of ideas can be launched. As logic prevails, uncluttered by onerous regulation and regressive suppression, the ideas will break their chains and inexorably rise to the top, like a meritocratic cream!
― anvil, Sunday, 23 June 2019 22:34 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyDuqQ-Obcs
cursed boomer memes not alt right sorry needed to put this somewhere
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Monday, 24 June 2019 23:55 (four years ago) link
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/43jmdj/the-charlottesville-neo-nazi-who-killed-heather-heyer-just-got-life-in-prison
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Saturday, 29 June 2019 16:23 (four years ago) link
it's a start
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 29 June 2019 23:23 (four years ago) link
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48887440
― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Friday, 5 July 2019 16:05 (four years ago) link
So there was some kind of knuckle-walkers' convention in DC this weekend, and one of the speakers used his time to hoarsely shout about how he'd been banned from Tinder for posting a picture of himself with Ted Cruz (which admittedly is a pretty disgusting thing to do on a site where people are trying to hook up for sex). Anyway, someone took his speech and gave it the perfect musical accompaniment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXYO1wGHvc
For those who don't get the joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYItTxqTc38
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:43 (four years ago) link
god that is so perfect
― boobie, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:46 (four years ago) link
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 21:49 (four years ago) link
Man I love the internet sometimes
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
hahahahaha that's so good
― frogbs, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:05 (four years ago) link
I'm not racist / you're the one who's racist
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:41 (four years ago) link
All I wanted was a Pepe
― Logy Psycho (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 22:50 (four years ago) link
this made my day thx
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 23:10 (four years ago) link
lol OL
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link
this is the best thing
― maura, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:15 (four years ago) link
alt-right teenage serial killers in western canada
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/teens-manhunt-homicides-mcleod-schmegelsky-1.5222515
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:05 (four years ago) link
Goddamn Pewdiepie lookin' motherfucker.
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:09 (four years ago) link
Surprise, surprise.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:09 (four years ago) link
Further proof that we need to secure our borders by rejecting all Muslim applicants, amirite?
― pomenitul, Thursday, 25 July 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
i couldnt finish this fucking article. its basically a hagiography of their inherent goodness. fuck this nazi apologia.
― Carisis LaVerted (m bison), Thursday, 25 July 2019 20:55 (four years ago) link
"They're non-violent, they're good people. Never got in trouble or anything."what the fuck
― maura, Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:42 (four years ago) link
(thinking face emoji)
― Vape Store (crüt), Thursday, 25 July 2019 21:43 (four years ago) link
jesus that's awful.
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, 25 July 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
They were totally normal nice people until video games turned them into serial killers.
― beard papa, Friday, 26 July 2019 17:16 (four years ago) link
it’s only the first 3 times they murdered someone
― Vape Store (crüt), Friday, 26 July 2019 17:27 (four years ago) link
$250 million Sandmann lawsuit against Washington Post dismissed by federal judge50 million Sandmann lawsuit against Washington Post dismissed by federal judge
Dismissed with prejudice, so he can't re-file.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 26 July 2019 21:20 (four years ago) link
oh man
BitMitigate is owned by another company, Epik, a firm based outside Redmond, Wash., that bought the service earlier this year. Epik, a hosting and domain-name firm that gained notoriety after backing the far-right site Gab, has loudly criticized what it calls “digital censorship” and “organized efforts to de-platform and incapacitate practitioners of lawful free speech.”
Epik chief Rob Monster wrote Monday that the company had not solicited 8chan’s business but was now helping manage some of the site’s technical needs and was further evaluating whether to offer it other services, including a defense against cyberattacks."We enter into a slippery slope when we start to limit speech that makes us uncomfortable,” Monster wrote.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 August 2019 23:10 (four years ago) link
the guy keeping 8chan online is named ROB MONSTER
― Οὖτις, Monday, 5 August 2019 23:11 (four years ago) link
Good news is that at least temporarily it also fucked BitMitigate, who got shut down by the people they were using for servers.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Monday, 5 August 2019 23:27 (four years ago) link
If I married that dude we would both be named Rob Monster-Hunt
― rob, Tuesday, 6 August 2019 00:45 (four years ago) link
I wonder what country Andrew Anglin has fled tohttps://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/457270-neo-nazi-website-operator-ordered-to-pay-725k-in-harassment
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 18:33 (four years ago) link
I've read somewhere that he's probably still in the US.
― adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 14 August 2019 07:03 (four years ago) link
that seems like a risky thing to have your lawyer lie about in court
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
Black writer in Seattle who writes about racism being targeted with false reports intended to get cops to kill her and/or her family.
I just got a phone call from the King County Sheriff's Office saying that there was a report of gunshots at my home.My older son is there alone. I called him and woke him up. There were no gunshots.These hateful white supremacists are trying to get my family killed.— Ijeoma Oluo (@IjeomaOluo) August 14, 2019
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 23:30 (four years ago) link
posting this excellent summary of the Portland rally yesterday, I am so proud of that city and my state.
"Today’s white nationalist rally in Portland, Oregon was a complete rout.
The largely non-Portland (white nationalist) crowd was mostly abandoned by its leadership the night before. People arrived with no places to sleep and calls to cell phones went unreturned. This morning found hate group members without places to eat, water and access to restrooms. An increasing number of businesses (like the one pictured) were denying service.
The promised five hour hate rally lasted about 45 minutes; participants were forced to rally underneath a bridge and then had to beg police to escort them out (a very long walk) over (yet) another bridge. Rally leaders then quickly took to their cars to allegedly attend a BBQ that just happened to not be in Portland.
Other remnants of the rally were forced to walk around downtown Portland for nearly two hours as they searched for their cars. I heard at least two Portlanders give them wrong directions. Tired, thirst and walked out; people started to drift away in droves, leaving a dejected looking Joey Gibson (leader of Patriot Prayer) with an increasingly smaller and smaller crowd around him. Not getting the physical confrontation he sought and contemplating his growing civil and criminal legal woes, Joey was very subdued today.
After analysis?
The social pressure and evolving diverse and incredibly fun tactics of PopMob; the seriousness of the Portland Police; and the number of city, civic and business leaders mobilized seems to have taken serious steam out of the white nationalist/alt right protest.
It’s clear from the speeches and comments today that White nationalist/alt right leaders are wary of the increasing civil suits led by the Oregon Justice Resource Center and criminal liabilities they are facing from disrupting communities.
Really proud of Portland today. Super impressed, from the leadership in the streets to city hall. Folks will be back to political positioning and eating each other alive tomorrow, but hope everyone gives each other a small nod of respect tonight
You are an amazing community Portand and you showed up this month and it mattered. Community and leadership made this happen and you showed up with a lot of both. Goodnight from the Rose City. #OurCityOurHome"
― sleeve, Monday, 19 August 2019 02:41 (four years ago) link
also a bunch of them parked in a Fred Meyer (Kroger) store lot and got towed, lol
― sleeve, Monday, 19 August 2019 02:55 (four years ago) link
<raises hand>
Are the demographics of the pacific north west conspicuously 'whiter' than elsewhere in the US and is that likely part of reason for the fascist obsession with Portland?
― Aston "Family Court" Barrett (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:09 (four years ago) link
"<raises hand>
Er, fuck, I mean, not like *that*
― Aston "Family Court" Barrett (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:10 (four years ago) link
xp yes to the first, not sure about the second, I think it has to do more with Portland's "radical hotbed" reputation that makes it an inviting target. but the demographics definitely play a role. I mean, they once wanted to kick all the Catholics out of Oregon (along with every other non-WASP group of course).
― sleeve, Monday, 19 August 2019 14:14 (four years ago) link
"they" being Oregon legislature, a long time ago
it's kinda funny one of my best friends moved up to portland a couple of years ago and we were exchanging texts saturday night about how these dorks would never try something on this scale in nyc or philly or chicago etc
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:22 (four years ago) link
this is from the Intercept, so grain of salt, but it makes the case that yes, Portland's demographics appeal to white supremacist orgs for recruiting purposes: https://theintercept.com/2019/08/16/portland-far-right-rally/
― rob, Monday, 19 August 2019 14:24 (four years ago) link
I would assume the point of going to Portland is that they want the story to be "leftist terrorists punched us" so they have to go where there's a large population of single young men with left politics and hope somebody takes the bait.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:26 (four years ago) link
these dorks would never try something on this scale in nyc or philly or chicago etc
They did it in DC a month ago! I think they'll go wherever they think they can gin up a fight and get on Fox News and thence to Trump's twitter feed. That's the goal.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:28 (four years ago) link
ah that's right! was it this big a deal though? i was thinking it was kind of poorly attended but might be misremembering.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 19 August 2019 14:32 (four years ago) link
they want the story to be "leftist terrorists punched us"
they'll go wherever they think they can gin up a fight and get on Fox News and thence to Trump's twitter feed
both otm
― sleeve, Monday, 19 August 2019 14:34 (four years ago) link
the straight pride parade in boston is coming up :/
― maura, Monday, 19 August 2019 15:57 (four years ago) link
do these people know about Gay Shame parades? There should def be a Straight Shame parade...
― Οὖτις, Monday, 19 August 2019 15:58 (four years ago) link
pride was here a couple weeks ago and i had just stopped drinking for a bit and wasn't quite ready to go out and be around other people partying, so i didn't go to a thing my gf and her friends were going to and stayed home and vaped weed and watched tarantino films. when i saw a couple of my buddies the next day and told them what i was doing the night before they said that was my "straight pride" night
― bookmarkflaglink (jim in vancouver), Monday, 19 August 2019 16:13 (four years ago) link
relevant podcast episode
http://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/episode-27-a-history-of-white-nationalism-in-the-pacific-northwest
― adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 06:57 (four years ago) link
enjoy living in prison w yr aryan brotherhood buddies:https://www.yahoo.com/news/neo-nazi-james-fields-life-181119153.html
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 20:41 (four years ago) link
victim impact statements are probably bad not good but I'm also glad someone got to call him scum from the stand
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:03 (four years ago) link
dude probably wishes he were a cop when he ran those people over right now tho
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:04 (four years ago) link
why do you think victim impact statements are bad?
― ☮ (peace, man), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:09 (four years ago) link
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/21/the-rise-of-the-victims-rights-movement
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 20 August 2019 23:17 (four years ago) link
The Bryan Stevenson book 'Just Mercy' has a section on victims' rights. They've led to a disparity of sentencing between races and classes. I haven't read the NYer article yet but it seems to go into that.
― adam the (abanana), Wednesday, 21 August 2019 15:48 (four years ago) link
see also: mandatory minimum sentencing, largely pushed by these groups iirc
― sleeve, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 16:00 (four years ago) link
Kind of related - mistrial was declared last week in the case of the alt-right shitheads who shot a protester outside a Milo appearance in Seattle, apparently a minority on the jury were of similar mind to the defendants. However a big factor was that the victim refused to testify due to not believing in a punitive justice system, afaik he just wanted to meet with the defendants but I don’t think they agreed.
― JoeStork, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 16:15 (four years ago) link
I bought a copy of Hasbro's mean-spirited and woefully ill-informed "MONOPOLY: SOCIALISM" board game so you don't have to - a thread 1/ pic.twitter.com/YhZWDjkAnj— Nick Kapur (@nick_kapur) August 21, 2019
― gyac, Thursday, 22 August 2019 13:26 (four years ago) link
https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/08/26/27039560/undercover-in-patriot-prayer-insights-from-a-vancouver-democrat-whos-been-working-against-the-far-right-group-from-the-inside
This is great. If you haven't watched the video it's fucking surreal.
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 26 August 2019 18:48 (four years ago) link
that Monopoly thing is even more ironic considering the game was originally designed to satirize landlords & capitalism, then was stolen by someone else and turned into a highly profitable board game, none of which made its way to the original creator. capitalism at its finest.
― frogbs, Monday, 26 August 2019 18:50 (four years ago) link
That Portland Mercury article is actually getting results: Andy Ngo has apparently been disowned by phrenologist site Quillette, where he was on the masthead until a couple of hours ago.
Andy Ngo just removed Quillette from his bio...... the same day it was revealed that Ngo and the violent far-right group Patriot Prayer had an "understanding" that he would protect them and they'd protect him.(h/t @Avi_Bueno) pic.twitter.com/WDJRST8EYJ— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) August 27, 2019
All traces of far-right provoceateur Andy Ngo have been wiped from the far-right phrenology website, Quillette. He doesn’t even have Quillette in his bio anymore. Rumor has it that Andy was fired for paling around with the white nationalist group Patriot Prayer. pic.twitter.com/lo1yC34WfA— Nathan Bernard (@nathanTbernard) August 27, 2019
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 01:57 (four years ago) link
Glorious
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
Monopoly is also much like capitalism in that it sucks
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 02:27 (four years ago) link
great news
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 03:49 (four years ago) link
Do the phrenologists think patriot prayer are too extreme or not extreme enough? Not enough head bearings or head beating getting the lumps to appear in the wrong places?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 07:53 (four years ago) link
Quillette's editor is claiming that he actually dropped out of service because of his oh-so-traumatic brain injury, but she would.
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 August 2019 08:04 (four years ago) link
she was the one that published the fake DSA takedown piece a couple of weeks ago right?
― the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 27 August 2019 14:46 (four years ago) link
he only did about 15 live interviews after that brain injury, let the man rest
― frogbs, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 14:48 (four years ago) link
Re: that Ijeoma Oluo about her house getting swatted she wrote something on it, link below. (she wrote one of my favorite pieces from 2018)
https://medium.com/@IjeomaOluo/the-thing-about-safety-a3e4cac767c2
― Yerac, Friday, 30 August 2019 15:43 (four years ago) link
argh that Ijeoma Oluo tweet from above about her house getting swatted... that should've said.
There's saying the quiet part out loud, and then there's this fucknut (Modesto, CA):
white supremacist tryna form a straight pride parade accidentally lets truth slip at city council meeting pic.twitter.com/c8fWtOwORT— bhad phag (@hebaddie) September 1, 2019
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 2 September 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
old video, but still refreshingly honest.
― ☮ (peace, man), Monday, 2 September 2019 21:28 (four years ago) link
Milo reveals just how much the far right are struggling after being deplatformed from the main social media sites. pic.twitter.com/oB3T94J89B— Roanna 🧙♀️ (@witchofpeace) September 9, 2019
― gyac, Monday, 9 September 2019 13:44 (four years ago) link
pic.twitter.com/7CGV3qxfMH— Fintan Hennessy (@FintanHennessy) September 9, 2019
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 9 September 2019 13:46 (four years ago) link
rip big man, heaven needed another small businessman crushed by the free market
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 9 September 2019 13:48 (four years ago) link
honestly i don't get their beef w Gab. too many "teen racists", you say? yeah no shit homeboy. it's operating exactly as an online FREEEZZE PEACH zone should be expected to.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 9 September 2019 14:40 (four years ago) link
Similar thing with Rave Dubin, going to The Blaze(?) whatever that is, so he can have free speech and also remove the trolls and their right to free speech
― anvil, Monday, 9 September 2019 14:42 (four years ago) link
going to brag a little here and divulge that I Was Banned from Gab last year for (probably) relentlessly trolling Torba, his mother, and Ben Garrison. so much for the tolerant 'free speech warrior' right i guess.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 9 September 2019 14:43 (four years ago) link
thank u for yr service
― don’t bore us, get to the aeon of horus (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:35 (four years ago) link
it was my honor to serve. telling Andrew Torba I was going to call the cops if he didn't wash his dick was my viet nam.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 9 September 2019 15:42 (four years ago) link
A really good article on Andy Ngo.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 16:57 (four years ago) link
Have you been waiting for a 1500 word treatise from the Claremont Institute making the intellectual case for calling David French a cuck? pic.twitter.com/tqM9HuJNkm— Adrenochrome Harvester (@ClenchedFisk) September 13, 2019
― j., Saturday, 14 September 2019 04:37 (four years ago) link
Downtown Portland in the rain, some fun is happening against the Patriot Prayer types. Thread here:
A satanic ritual (?!) is happening in the square now. I think this is a strategy to distract from Patriot Prayer’s march, in which case: mission accomplished. pic.twitter.com/OIsVxmdDxG— Blair Stenvick (@BlairStenvick) September 15, 2019
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 16 September 2019 02:15 (four years ago) link
Milo in a crowd of fully disguised and anonymous people sounds like a bad combo.
Milo Yiannopoulos is a disgraced right wing troll who thrives on attention. This warning will be the only mention of him here. Do not allow him into MFF. Do not give him attention. Do not talk about him. Do not spread anything he says. He turns kids into Nazis. Stay away. pic.twitter.com/F87DU3YLls— Furry Takes (@SpicyFurryTakes) September 15, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 16 September 2019 03:05 (four years ago) link
Aaaand he’s out
I just want everyone to understand that the furry community kicked Milo Yiannopoulos to the curb a million times faster that the mainstream GOP pundit class ever dreamed of doinghttps://t.co/cX4BAggul7— Jared Holt (@jaredlholt) September 16, 2019
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 16 September 2019 22:15 (four years ago) link
The FBI has arrested a member of U.S. Army who allegedly discussed plans to bomb a major U.S. news network, discussed traveling to Ukraine to fight with violent far-right group, and allegedly distributed info online on how to build bombs. He also allegedly mentioned @BetoORourke.— Mike Levine (@MLevineReports) September 23, 2019
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Monday, 23 September 2019 17:04 (four years ago) link
A new career highlight for both of them
"What the fuck is Milo doing here, cornboy?" someone yelled.Milo took the podium and said he's "fallen so hard and so far I've now been reduced to my previous career before I was a journalist and I am Mr. Wohl's personal stylist."He then plugged some new show and went inside. pic.twitter.com/g5dyGsqs4R— Ford Fischer (@FordFischer) October 21, 2019
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 21 October 2019 22:02 (four years ago) link
https://www.yahoo.com/news/proud-boys-sentenced-new-york.html
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 22 October 2019 22:16 (four years ago) link
glad to see them described as an "extremist street gang" in a mainstream pub tbh
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 22:37 (four years ago) link
oh that's syndicated from HuffPost lol whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
yeah i was like - this is surprisingly antifascist for yahoo.com
― Seany's too Dyche to mention (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 22 October 2019 22:38 (four years ago) link
there are some things in here I'm not sure I'd agree with (primarily involving who is classified as what), but the overarching hypothesis seems reasonable
https://www.wired.com/story/not-youtubes-algorithm-radicalizes-people/
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, 24 October 2019 00:10 (four years ago) link
The thing is, we had a sort of rebranded nazi party which became so big on YouTube that they could run for parliament, and after they were at long last banned from the algorithm for racism, the viewership of their videos fell 87%.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 24 October 2019 07:51 (four years ago) link
Interesting one for me listed there is Red Ice TV, I'm familiar with them from around 2007 when they were a conspiracy theory interview podcast called Red Ice Creations with my flatmate used to listen to all the time. The host was a very softly spoken Swedish guy, the show was interesting to listen to as I got the impression that he shared my opinion that the interviewees were people with fascinating delusions who he respected for their power to create and live in alternative realities. But looks like I may have been wrong about this.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 24 October 2019 08:42 (four years ago) link
full paper, by the way, is here https://osf.io/73jys/
again, there are some things I'm not sure about, for instance this: It can take days or weeks to produce one hour's worth of text content on Facebook or Twitter, but in some cases, creating one hour's worth of video content takes exactly one hour.
I mean... sure? if you're already someone established enough to livestream, live, with zero production values whatsoever, and have people care. but if you're not, this is not really going to get you any traction (as anyone who's stumbled upon, like, low-production-value let's plays with 40 views knows). the stuff that goes viral is either by a person who is known, or at least known in fringe circles (or tenacious/gonzo enough at self promoting that they can become so), and/or has surprisingly high production values
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, 24 October 2019 13:03 (four years ago) link
(which seems like a nitpick, but half the framework of the study is that there is a greater supply of videos largely for this reason)
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, 24 October 2019 13:04 (four years ago) link
i haven't read the whole paper but i don't really like what i'm getting from the wired story, it's got this "well, ACTUALLY..." vibe to it, the idea that people are fundamentally "moderates" who are "radicalized" is certainly a questionable assumption but a lot of it comes across like an apologia for youtube, which i don't think is necessary?
― Spironolactone T. Agnew (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 October 2019 13:40 (four years ago) link
My main takeaway was that the audience already existed, it was just underserved. That certainly feels correct to me.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:12 (four years ago) link
I also didn’t understand the way they compared viewership numbers between cable and youtube? It seemed like they just made up an arbitrary ratio to represent “globalness” and assumed a can opener
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 24 October 2019 14:14 (four years ago) link
to be fair "making up an arbitrary ______" describes more viewership numbers than you'd think
as far as the "well actually," that's kind of to be expected when presenting any sort of counter-argument; it did not come off as an apologia for youtube so much as "it's not as simple as unplugging the third reich feeding tube"
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine), Thursday, 24 October 2019 16:14 (four years ago) link
― like, I’m eating an elephant head (katherine)
but is anybody arguing that it _is_ as simple as unplugging the third reich feeding tube, or are people just arguing that, you know, unplugging the third reich feeding tube might be a good thing, all things considered? the whole "counter-argument" aspect of it just strikes me as questionable framing
― Spironolactone T. Agnew (rushomancy), Friday, 25 October 2019 01:04 (four years ago) link
Not sure what the full story is here, but looks like popcorn time to me
Milo just uploaded leaked audio of Richard Spencer reacting to the death of Heather Heyer and the negative press it did to his movement.Just in case there was any question of the so-called "dapper white nationalist" being a raged fuelled hateful monster.Explicit warning. pic.twitter.com/KpVk2fLYSu— BAILEY, THE LIBTARDTARIAN 🃏 (@atheist_cvnt) November 4, 2019
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 4 November 2019 04:34 (four years ago) link
What a sad pathetic human
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 4 November 2019 04:52 (four years ago) link
remember when people wrung their hands bc he got punched? remember that? you remember when people said that it was bad? people said that.
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Monday, 4 November 2019 05:06 (four years ago) link
i just sitting here remembering his nice little chat on NPR
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Monday, 4 November 2019 05:18 (four years ago) link
"Octaroons"? Wtf. I imagine that Trump's ranting in private is similar in tone if a little less ideologically ornate. (I do by the way know what an octaroon is but I kind of doubt Spencer would know one if he saw one.)
― viborg, Monday, 4 November 2019 05:21 (four years ago) link
But when it comes to spending time on the internet talking about how great punching people is, well...I'd posit that if you're such a fan of punching, it's best to just get out there and do it, and limit the amount of energy you devote to talking about it.
― viborg, Monday, 4 November 2019 05:23 (four years ago) link
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Monday, 4 November 2019 11:47 (four years ago) link
it’s very good that people perform open heart surgery but ya don’t see me slicing up people’s torsos!!! i leave that to the pros, just like i leave nazi-punchin to antifa.
― i'm not a government man; i'm a government, man. (m bison), Monday, 4 November 2019 11:49 (four years ago) link
guys i think richard spencer is cancelled now
― non-euclidean lenin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 4 November 2019 11:51 (four years ago) link
i have to wonder where milo uploaded that given that he's banned from every social platform except for maybe planet penguin iirc
― non-euclidean lenin (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 4 November 2019 11:52 (four years ago) link
Point:
― viborg, Monday, November 4, 2019 12:23 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
Counterpoint:
Richard Spencer vs Rage Against the Machine pic.twitter.com/jzGLS4eNtM
― Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 4 November 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
More story itt
In an attempt to push back on attacks on followers of white nationalist Nick Fuentes, who represent a pro-Trump wing of the Alt-Right, Milo Yiannopoulos has published a damning audio clip of Richard Spencer following Unite the Right. Don't lose site of the big picture, a thread. pic.twitter.com/j1zqstvPst— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) November 4, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 4 November 2019 13:08 (four years ago) link
https://gizmodo.com/8chan-is-back-and-calling-itself-8kun-now-1839592841
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 4 November 2019 13:10 (four years ago) link
lmao, rip in peace this huge-headed oaf's youtube channel
YouTube banned Sebastian Gorka because he won't stop playing Imagine Dragons on his channel. https://t.co/7Jiuvd0Jda— Will Sommer (@willsommer) November 5, 2019
Gorka, who didn’t respond to requests for comment, didn’t appear to realize on Monday afternoon that his channel had been deleted. After one Twitter user complained that Gorka’s links were going to his now-deleted channel, Gorka mocked the poster, tweeting “you really should try harder” and ending the message with a laughing-crying emoji.
You really should try harder. Try searching for my YouTube channel again. You and your 13 followers!😂😂😂 https://t.co/k2VPX1fvxS— Sebastian Gorka DrG (@SebGorka) November 4, 2019
― non-euclidean lenin (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 13:40 (four years ago) link
I wish it were because they're cracking down hard on fascism but cracking down on Imagine Dragons is nearly as good
― esempio (crüt), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
Proud Boys lawyer Jason Lee Van Dyke, a violent racist with a penchant for murder threats, boldly accepts the fascist label he's always had, claiming that he's more of a Mussolini than a Hitler.Big day for fascists telling on themselves!(h/t @popehat) pic.twitter.com/pY2hLgYp0q— Andy Campbell (@AndyBCampbell) November 4, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 21:12 (four years ago) link
Is it really telling on yourself if you are proud to be a fascist? The fact these guys try so hard to hide their beliefs and cultivate an air of respectability is the most pathetic aspect of their whole schtick. They know it's unacceptable and that they aren't going to convince most people otherwise, so they dance around the truth.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 21:16 (four years ago) link
why is Gorka's twitter name "Sebastian Gorka DrG" and his handle "@SebGorka"
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 21:24 (four years ago) link
where is his branding consultant
also lol at him trying to appearance-shame other right-wing commentariat
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 21:26 (four years ago) link
gotta emphasize that he has a doctorate. which he got from a diploma mill.
― wasdnuos (abanana), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 21:57 (four years ago) link
I'm a bit late on the Spencer tape thing -- but from reading "Everything you love will burn", the punching actually gave Spencer some street cred within the movement. Prior to it he was seen as a 'suit' not involved in the 'real' movement.
― wasdnuos (abanana), Tuesday, 5 November 2019 22:06 (four years ago) link
sad https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/paypal-moves-to-terminate-far-right-youtube-personality-stefan-molyneuxs-account/
― Captain ACAB (Neil S), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 10:52 (four years ago) link
rip big man, heaven needed an extremely stupid white nationalist 'philosopher'
― Titanic was cliched Marxist crap. (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 10:53 (four years ago) link
― esempio (crüt), Tuesday, November 5, 2019 1:23 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 13:55 (four years ago) link
in case anyone wants to do some digging, this is horrifyingly unsurprising
Apparently the entire SQL database of the international neo-fascist Iron March forum (where Atomwaffen first properly organised). Contains info on all users, including user emails, IP address, and private messages, as well as all posts and comments. Enjoy. https://t.co/iq8D7IRorU pic.twitter.com/GTzz31HxGs— Jake Hanrahan (@Jake_Hanrahan) November 6, 2019
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 18:15 (four years ago) link
oops sorry meant to link to a different tweet discussing how many active duty US military are included in this dump… "a lot"
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
haha awesome, the more exposure the better
yeah plz link to that as well!
― Book Doula (sleeve), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 18:19 (four years ago) link
more info in follow up tweets
Going through this, there are a *lot* of active duty U.S. soldiers on this forum. https://t.co/PmwvS6uNin— Aric Toler (@AricToler) November 6, 2019
also use a VPN if you're gonna try downloading that archive
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Wednesday, 6 November 2019 18:23 (four years ago) link
NYC Psychology Professor Secretly Moonlights As White Nationalist Co-Host Of Richard Spencer's Podcast
For years, Joshua Dietz has taught psychology at New York City’s public and private universities. Students at Kingsborough Community College describe him as a “modern professor,” easygoing and informal. He plays guitar in his spare time, and maintains a hypnosis practice in Downtown Brooklyn, providing emotional counseling and “assertiveness training.” He was an adjunct at St. Francis College, just a few blocks away, as recently as last fall.But when he’s not teaching undergrads or hypnotizing passive men, Dietz is lecturing under another name: Josh Neal, avowed white nationalist and co-host of Richard Spencer’s podcast.Operating under that thinly-veiled moniker, Dietz hosts the McSpencer Group alongside Spencer, perhaps the best known American neo-Nazi and a founding member of the so-called alt-right. For hours at a time, Dietz and a rotating selection of guests help plot the future of the white identity movement, touching on subjects from eugenics to Kurt Cobain (“a symbol of white displacement”) to the “negrofication” of American culture.
But when he’s not teaching undergrads or hypnotizing passive men, Dietz is lecturing under another name: Josh Neal, avowed white nationalist and co-host of Richard Spencer’s podcast.
Operating under that thinly-veiled moniker, Dietz hosts the McSpencer Group alongside Spencer, perhaps the best known American neo-Nazi and a founding member of the so-called alt-right. For hours at a time, Dietz and a rotating selection of guests help plot the future of the white identity movement, touching on subjects from eugenics to Kurt Cobain (“a symbol of white displacement”) to the “negrofication” of American culture.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 8 November 2019 19:34 (four years ago) link
interesting thread
Thread: The booing of Charlie Kirk, Don Jr, and Kimberly Guilfoyle by alt-right activists was the culmination of a month-long campaign that received no press attention.— Matthew Sheffield (@mattsheffield) November 11, 2019
― piscesx, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 19:27 (four years ago) link
This debate between Destiny and Nick Fuentes shows how shallow Fuentes's arguments are
Here's a podcast episode that covers Fuentes
― wasdnuos (abanana), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 19:45 (four years ago) link
Q: Why should this deserve any press attention?
it seems pretty meaningless
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 19:53 (four years ago) link
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
i think anytime you see that people on the far-right who have realized that being extremely online and posting about esoteric-hitlerism on their gab account "basedevola" isn't that productive, and that they can appeal to a wide-swathe of white folks with just social conservatism, white nationalism and anti-elite discourse a la steve bannon it's a bit worrying. though it's funny to see toilet paper usa being targeted from the right
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 12 November 2019 20:01 (four years ago) link
Fascinating!
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 12 November 2019 20:03 (four years ago) link
UF student president faces impeachment after “smoking gun” email shows he worked with Trump campaign to pay Trump Jr. and Kimberly Guilfoyle $50,000 for on campus speeches despite law against using public funds on political campaigns #BecauseFlorida https://t.co/eJcQAuirV9— Billy Corben (@BillyCorben) November 13, 2019
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 13 November 2019 03:07 (four years ago) link
IMPEACH
― grebbmoolb (crüt), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 03:26 (four years ago) link
The office of UF student president has been shockingly compromised! I say, forget impeachment, but make the fucker pay it all back.
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 05:04 (four years ago) link
making a mockery of the dignity of office the student body presidency
― Jeff Bathos (symsymsym), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 05:07 (four years ago) link
Imagine helping Don Jr make a buck.
― the public eating of beans (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 13 November 2019 05:14 (four years ago) link
Here is Charlie Kirk getting chased off scene by Trump supporters after trying to convince his audience that neo-Nazi Nicholas Fuentes is a bad guy pic.twitter.com/FDlClt9iSJ— Wild Geerters (@classiclib3ral) November 15, 2019
Charlie Kirk and TPUSA running into more trouble over this Fuentes thing
― anvil, Friday, 15 November 2019 03:19 (four years ago) link
Cool, raging hordes of nazis
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 15 November 2019 03:48 (four years ago) link
i don't understand, who is the bad guy, is it all of them?
― SHANTY the golden fish portion (stevie), Friday, 15 November 2019 07:45 (four years ago) link
its all of them
― anvil, Friday, 15 November 2019 07:52 (four years ago) link
corporatist/grifter right being attacked from the right. turns out not so keen on free speech after all
― anvil, Friday, 15 November 2019 07:55 (four years ago) link
America farts!
― ☮ (peace, man), Friday, 15 November 2019 11:33 (four years ago) link
re Charlie Kirk, he described this particular fissure best himself
"People who openly identify as white supremacists came to my event tonight
They have no place in the conservative movement"
Trying to walk that tightrope with the "Openly Identify",
― anvil, Sunday, 17 November 2019 07:05 (four years ago) link
https://i.ibb.co/Zz4G5L2/3gx23z.jpg
― Jordan Pickford LOLverdrive (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 20 November 2019 03:08 (four years ago) link
https://medium.com/@mrdancohen/an-alt-right-racist-is-in-the-houston-city-council-runoff-the-media-is-ignoring-it-e296c7199cc9
― a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 5 December 2019 18:57 (four years ago) link
Don't know exactly where this person stands politically, but this is some amount of hate.https://www.imdb.com/user/ur110312399/?ref_=_usr
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 24 December 2019 23:23 (four years ago) link
exceptional long form article/interviews
https://www.limestonepostmagazine.com/bloomington-2019-year-of-farmers-market-controversy
― subway Stalinist (sleeve), Tuesday, 31 December 2019 03:48 (four years ago) link
http://idavox.com/index.php/2020/01/01/next-on-the-white-power-chopping-block-augustus-invictus/
Augustus Invictus on kidnapping charges
― anvil, Wednesday, 1 January 2020 18:38 (four years ago) link
Apologies for the a****** f****** tag in this tweet, content otherwise a joy all round
Help these guys find members @theneedledrop pic.twitter.com/D1IcmaTS9W— Cody (@CodyB978) January 3, 2020
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 3 January 2020 17:48 (four years ago) link
lol reno
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 3 January 2020 17:53 (four years ago) link
We're gonna build a wall againPaid for by the people of the sun
― looking for Mon in Alderaan places (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 January 2020 18:06 (four years ago) link
They rally round the familyWith controlling stock in Shell
The work forces / burn crosses lyric stays but with an upbeat inflection
― joygoat, Friday, 3 January 2020 18:09 (four years ago) link
Fuck you, you will do what we tell you!
― looking for Mon in Alderaan places (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 January 2020 18:11 (four years ago) link
Who got 'em? Yo, smell the airAll you libtards know the trial was fairAn army of SJWs triggered by my styleOff 'em all out that box, I got spreadsheets to compile!
― looking for Mon in Alderaan places (Neanderthal), Friday, 3 January 2020 18:22 (four years ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/11/trum-and-farage-supporter-flies-flag-for-qanon-rar-right-conspiracy
― pomenitul, Saturday, 11 January 2020 17:39 (four years ago) link
The Rar Right?
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:48 (four years ago) link
Better switch to zip files.
― jmm, Saturday, 11 January 2020 19:58 (four years ago) link
xp ugh, there are a lot of pickled-brain posh fuckwits who are into Q bollocks, but this guy is the most prominent.
― santa clause four (suzy), Saturday, 11 January 2020 20:11 (four years ago) link
interesting post about the bloomington farmers' market. i do have a general thesis, which the recent takeover (attempted or completed) of a portland area american legion post which briefly gained notoriety for espousing "progressive" values by a well-known alt-right chucklehead who in his day job tries very hard to get fired from the local parks and rec department tracks fairly well with. (ok, diagram that monstrosity of a sentence.)
overall the institutions that stand to suffer most from the recent administration are liberal institutions, which are fundamentally ill-equipped to handle the ideology being openly practiced by those in power. the next few years will see the death of a lot of liberal institutions, i think, and what seems to be replacing them are radical institutions.
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Monday, 13 January 2020 02:17 (four years ago) link
there are a lot of pickled-brain posh fuckwits who are into Q bollocks, but this guy is the most prominent.
FP'd you for racism
― don't care didn't ask still clappin (sic), Monday, 13 January 2020 02:30 (four years ago) link
Rapper Kanye West announced that he and his Sunday Service choir will take part in Awaken 2020, a prayer rally featuring dominionists Lou Engle, Ché Ahn, Cindy Jacobs and other evangelists that will be held Saturday, Jan. 18 at Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe, Arizona. According to one report, West’s announcement sparked such a flood of people registering for free tickets that the event website crashed.
Engle teaches that “the church’s vocation is to rule history with God.” He has used his prayer events to call for an end to abortion in America, to mobilize resistance to LGBTQ equality, and to ask God to “remove” pro-choice Supreme Court justices so that President Donald Trump can replace them with justices who will eliminate a right to abortion.
https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/kanye-west-joins-dominionist-pro-trump-prophets-for-stadium-prayer-rally/
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 17:02 (four years ago) link
https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2020/01/14/27811330/proud-boy-tiny-toese-pleads-guilty-to-2018-assault
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Wednesday, 15 January 2020 17:17 (four years ago) link
An interesting Twitter thread (could also be filed in the Screaming Into the Void thread, but whatever).
Tips for journalists: 1) Don't simply quote what an extremist tells you. Find an expert or second source to provide a counter view. Otherwise, you're spreading extremist propaganda. An expert can help you identify code words and undercurrents that might not be obvious.— JJ MacNab (@jjmacnab) December 13, 2019
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 17 January 2020 16:01 (four years ago) link
Experts are anti-democratic and anti-First Amendment tho.
― pomenitul, Friday, 17 January 2020 16:08 (four years ago) link
Nazis organizing in Richmond VA today? Lee Carter in some kind of safe house after threats to his life. Can't tell size of it, are we looking at Charlottesville II?
― anvil, Monday, 20 January 2020 08:05 (four years ago) link
Pretty lively over here. Extraodrinary that this stuff isn't even in a private group
https://www.facebook.com/Constitutionlaststand/
― piscesx, Monday, 20 January 2020 10:02 (four years ago) link
It is 7 AM in the city of Richmond, Virginia on the day of what I will be calling the Big Gun Clusterfuck.Initially a rally by self-admitted 2nd Amendment extremist group VCDL, it has become a lightning rod for militias across the country. pic.twitter.com/olFhpHsEQU— Robert Evans (The Only Robert Evans) (@IwriteOK) January 20, 2020
Robert Evans will be updating from the ground throughout the day.
― ☮️ (peace, man), Monday, 20 January 2020 13:50 (four years ago) link
Somehow that doesn't link to his entire twitter thread, so just go check out his timeline.
― ☮️ (peace, man), Monday, 20 January 2020 13:52 (four years ago) link
Anyone calling themself a "militia" should really be in jail without any guns, but guess because of a dumb sentence in yr constitution this is considered acceptable.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, 20 January 2020 13:55 (four years ago) link
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length)
it's less about what the constitution says and more about what the country is and always has been in practice
― revenge of the jawn (rushomancy), Monday, 20 January 2020 14:39 (four years ago) link
A large gun-rights rally in Virginia's state capital unfolded peacefully Monday despite earlier fears of the kind of violence that took place in nearby Charlottesville three years ago.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/politics/virginia-gun-rights-rally-richmond/index.html
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Monday, 20 January 2020 18:56 (four years ago) link
That is really, really good news.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 20 January 2020 18:57 (four years ago) link
Otm
― papa stank (Neanderthal), Monday, 20 January 2020 19:00 (four years ago) link
see, guns are good!
― uncrut gems (crüt), Monday, 20 January 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
They're not, but fuck it, this could have been really horrible and it wasn't (or at least was much less horrible than it well could have been) and I'm just glad about that in an uncomplicated way.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 20 January 2020 19:51 (four years ago) link
Elsewhere in the crowd, Justin Burns, 19, and his friend Spencer George, 30, flaunted their own arsenals: Both had strapped assault-style rifles across their chests, with bullets visible in the clips. Spanning the men’s bulletproof vests were more ammo clips.The duo, both welders, had driven 10 hours to attend the rally. They brought the rifles, Burns said, in case anything goes wrong.“All it takes is one person to make a bad decision and fire off a round for things to go sideways,” Burns said.Clutching his AR-15-style rifle, George said it felt “awesome” to see so many gun-toting gun rights activists gathered in one place. The sea of weaponry, he said, made him feel less alone.
The duo, both welders, had driven 10 hours to attend the rally. They brought the rifles, Burns said, in case anything goes wrong.
“All it takes is one person to make a bad decision and fire off a round for things to go sideways,” Burns said.
Clutching his AR-15-style rifle, George said it felt “awesome” to see so many gun-toting gun rights activists gathered in one place. The sea of weaponry, he said, made him feel less alone.
― JoeStork, Monday, 20 January 2020 21:08 (four years ago) link
I'm always a bit amazed even now by Americans, used to the relatively very high levels of security and stability American citizens enjoy compared with e.g. Syrians, who like to play 'militia' with real military surplus equipment.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 20 January 2020 21:17 (four years ago) link
the only reason it was nonviolent is because the city went out of their way to make sure these assholes weren't given a target
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 January 2020 21:19 (four years ago) link
I'm relieved these assholes didn't murder or hurt anyone, but Lithwick has it right here, calling this march of heavily armed protestors intimidating the majority political position they oppose "peaceful" is deranged: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/richmond-to-impeachment-senate-minority-rule-rules.html
― rob, Wednesday, 22 January 2020 14:54 (four years ago) link
Elections only have consequences when Republicans win; when progressives win and try to do policy they will be met with violence.
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 15:32 (four years ago) link
i'm just glad my friends in Richmond are ok. i give the armed protesters zero credit for the lack of violent attacks.
― Rhoda from Steubenville (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 22 January 2020 16:00 (four years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP3lGgTWkAEqWGz.jpg
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 3 February 2020 21:52 (four years ago) link
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Monday, 3 February 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
Pull the trigger dude
― I want to change my display name (dan m), Monday, 3 February 2020 23:19 (four years ago) link
drake no meme: daily stormer using watermarked stock photos to save moneydrake yes meme: andrew anglin taking a selfie of himself holding a gun directly to his head to save money
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 00:59 (four years ago) link
The guy sounds kinda triggered.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 01:09 (four years ago) link
The trigger was pulled by the invisible hand
― ... that's Traore! (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 4 February 2020 01:18 (four years ago) link
that's clickhole, come on
― symsymsym, Tuesday, 4 February 2020 03:31 (four years ago) link
Story here of alt-right guy being charged with swatting a US govt official, ProPublica, and various others, and maximum charges are 5 years. If this dude were muslim, he'd be facing seriously more time.
― Har Mar Klobuchar (PBKR), Wednesday, 26 February 2020 20:53 (four years ago) link
Michelle Malkin claims “questioning the numbers of the Holocaust” isn’t antisemitic and neither is questioning the ״dual loyalties״ of “foreign agents”🧐 You read that right...pic.twitter.com/kHmIMQsZ0T— Adam Milstein (@AdamMilstein) March 2, 2020
Bush era cons either have to go full Nazi or join the #resistance
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 00:10 (four years ago) link
h
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 00:18 (four years ago) link
to the gallows for her. no penance
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 01:13 (four years ago) link
In further hurting the delicate feelings of fascist snowflakes news
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/mar/02/liberal-senator-tells-asio-chief-his-use-of-term-rightwing-can-offend-conservatives
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 3 March 2020 05:17 (four years ago) link
On the memeified aesthetics of contemporary fascism https://t.co/EW9PSv5pBq— Duncan Bell (@DrDuncanBell) May 28, 2020
an educational (well for me it was!) contemporary US fascism thread featuring breakdance 2, 4chan and Hawaiian shirts
― calzino, Thursday, 28 May 2020 10:41 (three years ago) link
can't believe they've even ruined electric boogaloo jokes now.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 28 May 2020 10:47 (three years ago) link
seriously? they're taking hawaiian shirts too? a few years ago it was new balance sneakers
― treeship., Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:20 (three years ago) link
ok, just read the thread. lol
― treeship., Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:22 (three years ago) link
they have a habit of never letting memes die
― wasdnous (abanana), Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:29 (three years ago) link
i have some short sleeve shirts with subtle floral patterns, not quite "aloha" shirts. will still be wearing them.
― treeship., Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:37 (three years ago) link
There’s a lot more about the boogaloo phenomenon at Bellingcat: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/05/27/the-boogaloo-movement-is-not-what-you-think/
― dip to dup (rob), Thursday, 28 May 2020 12:58 (three years ago) link
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 28 May 2020 14:40 (three years ago) link
new balance did themselves no favors when they basically came out in favor of Trump’s trade talk during 2016 (tbc people who were aghast at Trump’s ostensible trade stances are scarcely better in the Big Scheme, but maybe don’t say positive things about the guy running a presidential campaign on explicit racism)
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Thursday, 28 May 2020 14:46 (three years ago) link
my takeaway is that now is the perfect time to resurrect Sid and Marty Kroft's show The Bugaloos with a new theme song adapted from "Bugaboo" by Destiny's Child
― (so serious) (DJP), Thursday, 28 May 2020 17:24 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXg1AxBXN5g
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Thursday, 28 May 2020 17:27 (three years ago) link
Nice!
Also,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4hjyjdOHj0
― peace, man, Thursday, 28 May 2020 17:38 (three years ago) link
i have a friend in NY who plays boogaloo music (as in, latin dance music) and he was furious when he found out about this.
― akm, Friday, 29 May 2020 03:32 (three years ago) link
here's a medium article he wrote about it
https://medium.com/@jonnysemicolon/the-far-right-cannot-erase-the-legacy-of-boogaloo-955d624524f3
― akm, Friday, 29 May 2020 03:34 (three years ago) link
Carrying over from recent discussion in the brain worms thread:
https://newsone.com/3848636/candace-owens-receipts-con-artist/
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 5 June 2020 20:32 (three years ago) link
― beard papa, Monday, 8 June 2020 02:48 (three years ago) link
'independent journalist' Pim Tool has been playing the "Im actually on the left but the left have gone insane" game for years now, cosplaying this weird space. His response to recent events has been to say he's buying a gun and considering voting for Trump. He didn't look happy about it, its a risky move - if he drops the "im on the left actually" schtick he takes the risk of his value declining.
"the left have gone so insane they've even lost Tim Pool" loses its value if he drops that pretence. Owens retains hers, but if he comes just another conservative there are ones better at it, unless his role is to make ones leaning that way feel better about themselves
― anvil, Monday, 8 June 2020 06:42 (three years ago) link
This leaves a space for professional contrarian Michael Tracey. He just likes riling people up but hasn't managed to structure it into a more streamlined grift yet. He seems a little low energy so he might not have it in him
― anvil, Monday, 8 June 2020 09:57 (three years ago) link
There are people who don't think Tool is a grifter?
― Boring, Maryland, Monday, 8 June 2020 13:54 (three years ago) link
Lil' Dickie Spencer is going broke
https://boingboing.net/2020/06/15/noted-white-nationalist-and-gu.html
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 15 June 2020 23:20 (three years ago) link
Wearing a barrel round your waist - C/D/but most of all - why?
― Subverted by buggery (Tom D.), Monday, 15 June 2020 23:25 (three years ago) link
I don't know if he could find a barrel racist enough to meet his standards.
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 15 June 2020 23:40 (three years ago) link
Tim Pool seems to be doing really good numbers and spews out crap all day long, he has to be the worst one!
― anvil, Thursday, 6 August 2020 17:54 (three years ago) link
but Tim Pool isn't alt-right, he was actually a leftist who was shocked to find how extreme the left became...
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:20 (three years ago) link
hate it when that happens
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:31 (three years ago) link
This raised a smile
https://www.vice.com/amp/en_uk/article/qj4egp/far-right-hearts-of-oak-protest-london
― piscesx, Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:36 (three years ago) link
Hearts of Oak, Brains of Shit
― The Scampos of Young Werther (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:37 (three years ago) link
They've not won the Ghanian premier league since 2009 but I hadn't realized they had fallen on quite such hard times
― anvil, Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:39 (three years ago) link
As annoying as this guy is, there is at least the silver lining of seeing Michael Tracey struggling to pull the same schtick off.
― anvil, Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:42 (three years ago) link
pictured: lemmy cosplayer, random fascist goth lady (presumed morrissey fan)
(and honestly, if you're going to cosplay lemmy that much at a do like this, why _not_ accessorize with overt nazi paraphernalia?
― Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 6 August 2020 18:42 (three years ago) link
Proud Boy Kyle Basedstickman Chapman: Look, let's just come out and say it.
White nationalist Kyle Chapman says he is assuming control of the Proud Boys and renaming it to Proud Goys after he uses racial slurs to describe Enrique Tarrio on Telegram pic.twitter.com/5zt6ufIFR7— Berkeley Antifa (@berkeleyantifa) November 10, 2020
― peace, man, Wednesday, 11 November 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
The safest spaces:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/11/11/parler-mewe-gab-social-media-trump-election-facebook-twitter/6232351002/
― pomenitul, Thursday, 12 November 2020 15:11 (three years ago) link
Alt-right, alt-right, alt-right ...
#BREAKING: Kyle Rittenhouse, teenager who shot two people during a protest in Kenosha (Wisconsin), released from jail on $2 million bail https://t.co/d0zPYUizH7— Matthew Keys (@MatthewKeysLive) November 20, 2020
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 20 November 2020 21:36 (three years ago) link
How could arresting Tarrio for destruction of property get better, you ask????Tarrio was in illegal possession of firearm magazines when he was arrested... and the DC police promptly charged him with that, too. https://t.co/EwYw46sR8Q— Pé (@4everNeverTrump) January 4, 2021
― Change Display Name: (stevie), Monday, 4 January 2021 23:36 (three years ago) link
How many of those cops are PBs too, I wonder.
― underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Tuesday, 5 January 2021 00:00 (three years ago) link
today's "daily deal" on audible.ca was originally a gavin mcinnes book. they changed it after a few hours.
― wasdnuos (abanana), Tuesday, 5 January 2021 02:28 (three years ago) link
The Proud Boys are self-destructing tonight. It’s like a snake eating its own tail as these fascists turn on each other. pic.twitter.com/eJqHgg4Ieu— Chad Loder (@chadloder) January 6, 2021
― Change Display Name: (stevie), Wednesday, 6 January 2021 13:01 (three years ago) link
It only takes one asshole with a weapon, a grudge and bad aim, but for now that thread delivers lots of fun(ny) stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 6 January 2021 13:19 (three years ago) link
Lmao pic.twitter.com/fYFtOTQg0e— worldstar occupied government (@thelateempire) January 8, 2021
― ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 8 January 2021 12:29 (three years ago) link
i saw this white pickup truck with a q sticker and some weird brand sticker on it that said "dirty hands clean money". i look this shit up and of course it's this jd-vance-with-piercings-and-tattoos instagram clothing company. w even tf is "clean money." these people are so idiotic.
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 19:01 (three years ago) link
The ones who have been in this industry for long enough do know that, “DIRTY HANDS CLEAN MONEY” holds very true. There is something truly rewarding about a hard day’s work, knowing that you are building something that will stand tall for years to come. That feeling of sweat dripping down your face on a hot summer’s day, feeling burnt out but be able to look up and say, “I built that”. Yes, the work is not easy, yes you got to get on your hands and knees and get dirty. And it isn’t for everyone. But the rewarding feeling you get cannot be replaced by no other job.That is why the motto, “DIRTY HANDS CLEAN MONEY” has caught the attention of many who truly live the blue collar life. It’s a way of showing our pride in what we do, day in and day out. It’s letting the world know that, we are blue collar as F*ck and we are proud of it! So let’s support the community, let’s support each other and be proud of what we do!
That is why the motto, “DIRTY HANDS CLEAN MONEY” has caught the attention of many who truly live the blue collar life. It’s a way of showing our pride in what we do, day in and day out. It’s letting the world know that, we are blue collar as F*ck and we are proud of it! So let’s support the community, let’s support each other and be proud of what we do!
https://northernboots.ca/blogs/news/what-dirty-hands-clean-money-really-means
― pomenitul, Monday, 8 February 2021 19:04 (three years ago) link
Did they think there was a monopoly on invocations of bootstraps or what
― Vladislav Bibidonurtmi (Old Lunch), Monday, 8 February 2021 19:07 (three years ago) link
xp so it's a fascist thing of course
like what exactly is it you're building and why are you building it? don't ask too many questions lol. but yes hard work feels good and you are very special and loved.
― Joses Chrust (map), Monday, 8 February 2021 19:20 (three years ago) link
The inverse of the Clipse classic “Dirty Money.”
― Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Monday, 8 February 2021 19:25 (three years ago) link
Is clean money real though?
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 8 February 2021 19:46 (three years ago) link
As real as clean coal.
― pomenitul, Monday, 8 February 2021 19:46 (three years ago) link
like what exactly is it you're building and why are you building it
Confederate monuments and Racism
― "what are you DOING to fleetwood mac??" (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 8 February 2021 22:33 (three years ago) link
i get a lot of ads for “lions not sheep apparel”, p sure it’s what you’d think it is
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 8 February 2021 23:32 (three years ago) link
So Milo Yiannopoulos is now an 'ex-gay'? ffs
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:13 (three years ago) link
he's just trying a new angle
― Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:16 (three years ago) link
also on the alt-right bandwagon today, apparently, Lauren Harries.
Benjamin do you know that George Soros funds the BLM although he is a white supremacist who has say's he wants to destroy U.S. https://t.co/6roe4B93YJ https://t.co/8zMHcE8RlJ— Lauren Harries (@LaurenHarries) March 8, 2021
― Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:19 (three years ago) link
I... I've got nothin.
― incredible pant century (stevie), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:21 (three years ago) link
This caravan of broken people seems endless
best thing to do is point and laugh
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:22 (three years ago) link
John Oliver goes after Tucker Carlson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMGxxRRtmHc
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 15 March 2021 16:11 (three years ago) link
https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-me-divorce-oath-keeper-leader-stewart-rhodes
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 27 March 2021 17:08 (three years ago) link
Jesus, hate really ages a MF
"I got into one little fight and my mom got scared, she said 'You gonna live with your aunty and uncle in Bel Air'..." pic.twitter.com/exaYPWcUwN— Rapid Onset Wooloo (@MockWooloo) March 24, 2021
― piscesx, Saturday, 27 March 2021 19:18 (three years ago) link
From gay and British to straight and Australian. Quite a transformation.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 27 March 2021 19:29 (three years ago) link
Far-right provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos stated on Telegram this morning that hate group leader Gavin McInnes' "Censored TV" platform is "laying off all its staff." No comment yet from the site, which currently employs both Laura Loomer and Jacob Wohl. pic.twitter.com/WkcfRl85qL— Zachary Petrizzo (@ZTPetrizzo) May 12, 2021
― blue whales on ambient (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 12 May 2021 16:13 (two years ago) link
Candace Owens and other pro-Trump media figures have told their fans to pay $500 for the Freedom Phone, billed as the "best phone in the world." In reality, it's a budget Chinese phone that sells elsewhere for a fraction of that price. https://t.co/P4OSmQDMSu— Will Sommer (@willsommer) July 15, 2021
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 15 July 2021 23:34 (two years ago) link
Just ordered mine! Promo code was 761-DONJR
― Andy the Grasshopper, Friday, 16 July 2021 00:15 (two years ago) link
Computer, enhance pic.twitter.com/Trjy91LGqY— DJ Judd (@DJJudd) July 16, 2021
Not tracking down her video, but wouldn't be surprised if in it Owens claims that if George Floyd had been in possession of a Freedom Phone, he wouldn't have deserved to die.
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 17 July 2021 00:06 (two years ago) link
soooo much money just sitting there on the table
― Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Saturday, 17 July 2021 00:09 (two years ago) link
I know, Vice, but Aaron Lewis and Big Machine and LEFSETZ and oh my...
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dxgg/staind-aaron-lewis-scott-borchetta-alt-right-controversy-am-i-the-only-one
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 21 July 2021 00:41 (two years ago) link
Investigative journalist went undercover amongst the Portuguese chapter of the Proud Boys. Lots of pictures of them hanging out with the UK chapter, too. In case you were wondering if this particular brand of deranged nonsense is getting exported.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 08:43 (two years ago) link
Europe has had these kind of groups forever, they might just be rebranding and wearing yellow kilts now... thinking of Golden Dawn in Greece, the old National Front in the UK, etc.
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 16:30 (two years ago) link
Yeah I wasn't under the assumption that Europe is somehow lacking in neo fascist movements - I'm well aware it's not, I live here! :) Which is why I categorized the Proud Boys as a particular brand of deranged nonsense, as opposed to the other brands like the EDL, Golden Dawn, etc.
Tbh tho there is a sociologically interesting thing that happens where you have alt right types here who are terminally online, follow US politics obsessively, absorb talking points from the US alt right no matter how ill suited they are for the places they actually live in, etc. This overlaps with but is distinct from the more trad blood and soil fash. Probably an international development, that guy from Malaysia seems emblematic of that tendency.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 17:40 (two years ago) link
Yeah it's weird that there's Trump supporters outside of the U.S. as well, who even appear to have a vested interest in the big election lie.. but I guess part of that is QAnon which is definitely an international movement at this point
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 18:05 (two years ago) link
More Freedom Phone info: The phone has so many red flags that it's difficult to know where to start. The website lists almost no information about the device itself. There's the name, a picture, and a price, but there's no spec sheet of any kind. This is a $500 phone, and its website gives you no indication of what you're actually buying. The front page of the website looks normal, but every button that should say something like "learn more" and link to more information instead says, "Buy it now." There are 10 "buy it now" links placed all over the front of the website—and almost no important information about the phone...
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 21 July 2021 22:31 (two years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/eJIhKUe.jpg
🤔
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 27 July 2021 09:21 (two years ago) link
I guess after the Tucker incident lil Ben is getting nervous that the next time he makes a stunt trip to Home Depot in Nashville to own the libs someone might pop off at him
― Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Tuesday, 27 July 2021 12:36 (two years ago) link
ben's followers prefer shooting at people in public :/
― criminally negligible (harbl), Tuesday, 27 July 2021 12:38 (two years ago) link
Mad about adhering to strict gender roles for a blue alien puppet named Gonzo. pic.twitter.com/xX7ghjIJRH— Mx. D. E. Anderson (@diannaeanderson) August 3, 2021
― “Heroin” (ft. Bobby Gillespie) (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 20:25 (two years ago) link
Maybe the distinction doesn’t matter any more, but aren’t the past few bumps of this thread just typical conservative antics? Feel like these kind of stories long predate the “alt right” which was more of neo nazi thing.
― beard papa, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 22:09 (two years ago) link
Well, they may be classic righty moves but they're being pulled by people who came up during the alt era. So think of it as like when punk bands record classic rock-sounding albums.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 22:11 (two years ago) link
the neo-nazis are laying low rn while the FBI is still arresting Jan 6 insurrectionists. they'll crawl out of their holes later.
― it is to laugh, like so, ha! (Aimless), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 22:12 (two years ago) link
Trans Agenda = shelved Kraftwork album
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 22:27 (two years ago) link
I wish Candace would clarify which manly puppets we should resurrect
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 22:30 (two years ago) link
Allegations in a court filing that the main publishing outlet for Atomwaffen, O9A, etc, books has been effectively bankrolled by the FBI for years:
There's more in this filing, including the original FBI affidavit for the search of the AWD TX house, which has never been made public before. Bottom line is this: Martinet Press has been essentially bankrolled by the feds, pumping out a steady stream of extremist lit— Ali Winston (@awinston) August 21, 2021
― Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Saturday, 21 August 2021 18:20 (two years ago) link
remembering the time a bunch of blue checks decided to celebrate the FBI for some imagined resistance to trumpism. there was even a hashtag
this is the tip of a massive iceberg, if we're lucky more stuff will come out after several years or decades
― Left, Saturday, 21 August 2021 23:10 (two years ago) link
ILX doesn't have blue checks, what are you talking about
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 21 August 2021 23:11 (two years ago) link
was reading some stuff earlier this year about informants in the groups timothy mcveigh hung out in before the OKC bombing. unfortunately when it does come out this stuff gets buried and relegated to the conspiracy theory bin. there is abundant information about highly paid informants doing crimes and encouraging others to do the same. it doesn't do anything to change the narrative that the FBI is heroic and effective at stopping these people, they do get a sprinkle of cases they closed in the news and it's definitely good when they stop a guy with a house full of bombs, but they never look at what it took to get there and what they're letting pass under their noses in the process. see also the numerous entrapments of muslim men since 9/11. and https://www.wbur.org/radioboston/2017/06/15/tsarnaev-mcphee-fbi
― criminally negligible (harbl), Saturday, 21 August 2021 23:53 (two years ago) link
harbl otm
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 22 August 2021 00:19 (two years ago) link
(per usual)
― caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 22 August 2021 00:20 (two years ago) link
There was a Twitter thread recently that said something like, "If a new guy joins your organization and immediately starts advocating for more radical and violent action than you've ever even discussed before, your new member is an FBI agent."
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 22 August 2021 01:39 (two years ago) link
That was a popehat thred iirc
― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Sunday, 22 August 2021 05:33 (two years ago) link
Punching bag Richard Spencer broke and shunned by his townhttps://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/05/us/politics/nazi-whitefish-charlottesville.html
― adam t. (abanana), Monday, 6 September 2021 00:07 (two years ago) link
― "the fancy things" being his nads, etc (stevie), Monday, 6 September 2021 05:08 (two years ago) link
SOUL BROTHER #88 BEN SHAPIRO
This is an actual screenshot from Newsmax. I did not edit this. pic.twitter.com/zTevhmwMAH— Jason Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) April 20, 2022
― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 20 April 2022 20:27 (one year ago) link
Funny, they could have filled that fourth 'black conservative' slot with Justice Clarence Thomas and not looked like idiots.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 20 April 2022 20:56 (one year ago) link
And one of the three actually black conservatives there is fuckin' dead.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 20 April 2022 20:58 (one year ago) link
thought the bump would be about this article
https://vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets
― Bongo Jongus, Wednesday, 20 April 2022 21:53 (one year ago) link
Turns out Peter Thiel is actually the source of Red Scare's entire $60k a month Patreon.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 20 April 2022 22:04 (one year ago) link
jesus fucking christm, Mencius Moldbug
― made entirely of styrofoam (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Friday, 22 April 2022 14:28 (one year ago) link
That VF article really shook me
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 22 April 2022 16:26 (one year ago) link
this kind of shit will never not fuck me up after reading it, what a bunch of monstrous losers
― terence trent d'ilfer (m bison), Friday, 22 April 2022 17:16 (one year ago) link
one funny thing about the yarvin thing was a few months to a year ago I remember reading stuff online of dissatisfied substack subscribers or whatever fan payment service he was using saying he stopped posting on his promised schedule and instead was just sporadically sending them dating advice
― Bongo Jongus, Friday, 22 April 2022 17:20 (one year ago) link
this piece is just a further reiteration that the whole Red Scare, neo-right vibe is just "please don't tell anyone I was lame in high school" https://t.co/5kr2PdO2q0— sigh (@simonruff) April 21, 2022
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 22 April 2022 17:22 (one year ago) link
I suppose being a grifter and a being a true believer are not completely incompatible.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 22 April 2022 17:34 (one year ago) link
vomit
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Friday, 22 April 2022 18:20 (one year ago) link
(re subjects of that VF piece)
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Friday, 22 April 2022 18:22 (one year ago) link
I liked max's piece on this: https://maxread.substack.com/p/four-questions-about-the-new-right?s=r
― rob, Friday, 22 April 2022 18:53 (one year ago) link
def sounds like an alt-right rebrand to me, lots of throughlines from the pre-alt-right to the alt-right to whatever this is.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 22 April 2022 20:02 (one year ago) link
I thought "Red Scare" was more dirtbag left? I've never heard it, but after doing some digging around about that pod, it kind of sounds like some of the new right and dirtbag left pods share from a common guest pool. All of these "thinkers" that seem to float around, go to conferences, do articles on each other, guest on each others podcasts, just seem like attention-seeking borderline grifters to me.
― beard papa, Friday, 22 April 2022 22:52 (one year ago) link
I think that speaks to why “grifter” isn’t the best term, as it suggests the person proffering the shit doesn’t truly believe it, but you can’t know that. Hell, plenty of people like start believing their own schtick if they indulge in it long enough, and it’s not really a grift if you have a true believes hawking slop to other true believers.
I think “hustle” is a better descriptor.
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, 23 April 2022 00:08 (one year ago) link
I’ve never listened but RS’s vibe always coded to me as try hard “transgressive” kill Whitey type hipsters, updated for the politics & soc media-sick postTrump era. like if they were 10 (15?) years older they’d have been posting dumb drug pics and talking abt giving herpes to Carlos D
― OG Bob Sacamano (will), Saturday, 23 April 2022 01:31 (one year ago) link
Aren't they transgressives, or 'anti-establishment'?
I think the thing about 'grifting' is sort of misleading, if the aesthetic is what matters
― anvil, Saturday, 23 April 2022 09:34 (one year ago) link
Red Scare was never left in any way I can think of, the first and last ep I listened to was just about how Israel Does Nothing Wrong. They do run in some of the same circles as some of the leftist podcasters, and their original cause celebre was telling an Infowars reporter she has brain worms; of course they ended up posing for a photo op with Alex Jones.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 23 April 2022 10:33 (one year ago) link
Anyway yeah as others have said this "the right wing is cool now!" type of article has been doing the rounds since the alt right first started making headlines and its ability to shock me has faded somewhat, seems like the same niche of dorks every time.
― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 23 April 2022 10:38 (one year ago) link
Gavin McInnes’s allies are turning on him as it becomes increasingly clear the Proud Boys founder faked his “arrest.” https://t.co/kxNR5lEKpn— Will Sommer (@willsommer) August 31, 2022
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 31 August 2022 18:44 (one year ago) link
Guess this would go here?
I've been covering bad parts of the internet for long time now.For years, there was one site extremist researchers warned me not to cover because publicizing it would be dangerous.But it's time people know KiwiFarms—and how they're chasing political enemies around the world.— Ben Collins (@oneunderscore__) September 2, 2022
― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 2 September 2022 22:56 (one year ago) link
"Heil Josh the Cornlord"? What the fuck is the matter with these people?
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Friday, 2 September 2022 22:58 (one year ago) link
he had to change his epithet from Josh the Cumlord
― papal hotwife (milo z), Friday, 2 September 2022 23:13 (one year ago) link
God that is horrible. How do you change these people? My day was going find until being reminded that this side of the world exists
― hrep (H.P), Saturday, 3 September 2022 04:05 (one year ago) link
My god what a nightmare. I heard of kiwifarms for the first time last year when one of the people they harassed got arrested and it was in the news. I’m no lawyer but I don’t understand why this can’t be shut down—it seems to exist only to facilitate harassment, which is a crime.
― treeship., Saturday, 3 September 2022 14:27 (one year ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FbrhOpJWYAAS-_o.jpg
― but also fuck you (unperson), Saturday, 3 September 2022 15:53 (one year ago) link
Fascinating to read what repugnant pond scum Graham Glinner Linehan thinks about KF
So basically Glinner wants to promote a largely Nazi website because it hates trans people as much as he does, but wishes it were a bit less obviously Nazi.So I guess he has picked his side. pic.twitter.com/0L4uyIzfJ7— Roz Kaveney (@RozKaveney) August 9, 2021
What the fuck is happening in that guy’s long ridiculous head..
― piscesx, Sunday, 4 September 2022 11:26 (one year ago) link
he fucked up his life for this so it's all he has now
terfs have these moments of cognitive dissonance when they notice the people they're doing fashy shit with are fascists but it basically never* causes them to rethink their fascism... if anything they tend to become more comfortable expressing any formerly latent far right sympathies more generally (which is how terf shit has become one of the most effective right wing recruitment tools in recent years esp in britain)
*the few cases I've known of weren't celebrities and hadn't got to the point of making terf shit their entire lives yet- they just had too much trust in their peers and/or the media until something or someone changed their minds
― Left, Sunday, 4 September 2022 13:44 (one year ago) link
I didn't know this but it explains *a lot* about my experience with the platform and a lot of other things too
I'm now reading an article about extremism on Twitter. Evidently, they do identify nazis on here, but it seems like there was an internal plan for attempting to deradicalize extremists through algorithmic content rather than banning them, which is...a deeply naive approach.— Elizabeth May/Katrina Kendrick (@_ElizabethMay) September 4, 2022
― Left, Sunday, 4 September 2022 14:02 (one year ago) link
"Very dangerous people"
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Sunday, 4 September 2022 14:36 (one year ago) link
The Penn State admin “bosiding” the mess created by having Proud Boys invited to speak at the school, in which by most credible accounts masked alt right thugs attacked non-violent (if vocal) protestors. NYT helpfully picks up the official narrative.
Why is NYT just regurgitating the university's lacking recount? Why did NYT ignore video of McInnes supporters showing up and pepper spraying peaceful but loud students and members of media?How are we supposed to confront the far-right when power holds the door open for it? https://t.co/FFPkxw8VIg— Jared Holt (@jaredlholt) October 25, 2022
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:00 (one year ago) link
That is galling, especially because up here the PBs are an officially designated terrorist group: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-proud-boys-terrorists-1.5899186
― rob, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:09 (one year ago) link
they've been pulling this shit constantly, a large part of the creepy liberalism thread consists of people credulously repeating these liberal media laundered far right narratives
it shouldn't be a requirement for the students to have been "peaceful" but i guess highlighting it makes the nyt's mendacity more obvious in this case
― your original display name is still visible (Left), Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:23 (one year ago) link
yeah that thread is embarrassing. I thought about starting a "free speech and creeping fascism" thread to replace it a few years ago but realized I didn't actually feel like talking about it much
― rob, Tuesday, 25 October 2022 17:27 (one year ago) link
NEW YORK — An ex-FBI official who allegedly urged rioters to "kill" officers during the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was previously the supervisory special agent in charge of Homegrown Violent Extremism for the FBI New York Field Office's Joint Terrorism Task Force, a senior law enforcement official told NBC Newshttps://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/ex-fbi-agent-feds-say-urged-jan-6-rioters-kill-police-worked-terrorism-rcna82775
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 4 May 2023 00:13 (ten months ago) link
(Couldn’t remember if there was a more appropriate thread for this.)
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 4 May 2023 00:14 (ten months ago) link
A guy in charge of catfishing Muslim teenagers was a white nationalist? Color me surprised.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Thursday, 4 May 2023 00:37 (ten months ago) link
Yeah when I saw “homegrown violent extremism” my mind jumped to the Proud Boys but of course you’re right.Where’s that Thread of Institutional Rot?
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 4 May 2023 03:00 (ten months ago) link
Speaking of those creeps…After a trial that stretched nearly four months, four Proud Boys have been found guilty of seditious conspiracy in connection to the insurrection of Jan. 6.https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/proud-boys-verdict-seditious-conspiracy-jan6-1234723171/
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 4 May 2023 15:29 (ten months ago) link
I was very shocked to see nazis at my high school this weekend. Brookline has a large jewish population, I'm a little surprised these idiots were not confronted more aggressively.
Patriot Fronts cars are in BROOKLINE if anyone can get there. pic.twitter.com/61CjG4q5jX— Lauren “Dumpster Fire” Pespisa (@SplendidSpoon) April 29, 2023
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 4 May 2023 16:43 (ten months ago) link
Wtf? At a high school no less?
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Thursday, 4 May 2023 23:54 (ten months ago) link
Lmao someone posted the Proud Boys story thirty minutes after me in the US Politics thread as “Breaking news”. Why do I even bother. Anyway I appreciate you, Moodles.
― recovering internet addict/shitposter (viborg), Friday, 5 May 2023 05:27 (ten months ago) link
🐦[Get a real job, Jagger … pic.twitter.com/qB6CLQ4wGt🕸— Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) March 15, 2023🕸]🐦
Nick Fuentes got in a fight after being called a “cum hunter” for attempting to locate remnants his roommates ejaculate after discovering he had sex pic.twitter.com/STGWiXKvBw— Right Wing Cope (@RightWingCope) May 11, 2023
― dicbo=v2-ubswizzb&hrt (stevie), Thursday, 11 May 2023 17:27 (ten months ago) link
Don’t know why zing put that first tweet in there
― dicbo=v2-ubswizzb&hrt (stevie), Thursday, 11 May 2023 17:28 (ten months ago) link
Got the moves like jaggerGot the cum like hunter Got the jizz like fuentes
― coolgnoscenti (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 11 May 2023 17:44 (ten months ago) link
wait wut?
― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 11 May 2023 17:55 (ten months ago) link
Fights like Joe Besser
― Every post of mine is an expression of eternity (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 11 May 2023 18:02 (ten months ago) link
Screw Musk on Twitter or Trump on CNN, that asshole clearly needs a weekly reality show/sitcom. Sitcon?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 May 2023 18:04 (ten months ago) link
NEW @RichardHanania is a right-wing star. A @UTAustin scholar, his fans include JD Vance, Thiel, Musk, Sacks, Rufo. @HarperCollins will publish his book "The Origins of Woke" HuffPost found he used a pseudonym for yrs to write for white supremacist sites https://t.co/NOPSmIc0vH— Christopher Mathias (@letsgomathias) August 4, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 August 2023 21:26 (seven months ago) link
That pseudonym? John Barron.
― Steely Duran (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 5 August 2023 01:32 (seven months ago) link
In his own way he's just trying to emulate the journey from mafioso to licensed casino owner.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 5 August 2023 03:32 (seven months ago) link
Oh, so that's why he was always wearing a hat
Seeking leniency at sentencing in seditious conspiracy case, defense asks judge to consider Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio's detention.. arguing the "isolation has impacted his mental health.. he has seemed very anxious during recent jail visits or telephone conversations" pic.twitter.com/GO2OBKp4Yx— Scott MacFarlane (@MacFarlaneNews) August 18, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 August 2023 13:22 (seven months ago) link
David Cross noooooooooo
― Chevy Chase drumming mystery (Boring, Maryland), Saturday, 19 August 2023 14:17 (seven months ago) link
I love how these tin soldiers go to pieces while incarcerated.
― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Saturday, 19 August 2023 20:53 (seven months ago) link
This fuckin country
“We have got 360 security right now, so we’re just covering all angles” Mike Dunn explained of the various positions taken up by militia members outside the education center, where ‘Boogaloo Boys’ gathered today in response to four individuals being charged with carrying a… pic.twitter.com/AdM5x7GpHI— Brendan Gutenschwager (@BGOnTheScene) August 20, 2023
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 August 2023 13:39 (seven months ago) link
something really disturbing is happening in this country, I genuinely feel government has broken down and we are near Mad Max conditions--why aren't these fuckin' guys disarmed and declared terrorist groups? The government can't even assert its own monopoly on violence. One bright spot is the vigorous prosecution of Jan 6 people, I have to admit.
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 21 August 2023 15:01 (seven months ago) link
the foundation of the monopoly on violence is white supremacy
― rob, Monday, 21 August 2023 15:05 (seven months ago) link
Meanwhile, and, unfortunately, probably not totally unrelated, a bomb threat was called in to (checks notes) “all over Cook county’s highways and librarys." I don't know what to make of the highway part, but there are 73 libraries in Cook County. They closed all of our libraries today out of an abundance of caution, but clearly all it takes are a few seconds of assholery to essentially cause state-wide chaos.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 August 2023 15:19 (seven months ago) link
yeah they've been pretty serious about the J6 stuff, which actually gives me hope that Trump might actually see jail time, for despite their built in political advantages and the fact that the police tend to be on their side it does seem like the criminal justice system takes this shit seriously
― frogbs, Monday, 21 August 2023 15:22 (seven months ago) link
xp Josh - yeah, that's a scary threat, especially coming a day after threats to specific libraries in other northern suburbs. didn't realize the threat you mention was an entirely different one, wtf is wrong with people?
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 21 August 2023 15:26 (seven months ago) link
Our local paper reported:
A threat of explosions across Cook County highways and libraries caused the Oak Park Public Library to close Monday. Library officials promptly called the Oak Park Police Department after the threat was received at 7 p.m., Sunday night through the contact page on the OPPL website. A police report has been filed.“There will be a big explosion all over Cook county’s highways and librarys including Chicago gurnee and oak park. It will explode sometime tomorrow 8/21/2023,” the threat reads.Gurnee was not the only northern suburb to receive such a threat, but Oak Park appears to be the only western suburb at this time. Several libraries across the northern suburbs received similar threats on Aug. 17, including in Morton Grove, Park Ridge and Wilmette. No explosives were ever found or detonated, according to Dan Yopchick, spokesperson of the Village of Oak Park.
“There will be a big explosion all over Cook county’s highways and librarys including Chicago gurnee and oak park. It will explode sometime tomorrow 8/21/2023,” the threat reads.
Gurnee was not the only northern suburb to receive such a threat, but Oak Park appears to be the only western suburb at this time. Several libraries across the northern suburbs received similar threats on Aug. 17, including in Morton Grove, Park Ridge and Wilmette. No explosives were ever found or detonated, according to Dan Yopchick, spokesperson of the Village of Oak Park.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 21 August 2023 15:30 (seven months ago) link
instead we get the heckler's veto on civic life and public goods
― deep wubs and tribral rhythms (Boring, Maryland), Monday, 21 August 2023 16:37 (seven months ago) link
Not sure this is the best thread for it, but since we had some discussions about this upthread... another round of bomb threats against local libraries, including the one in my city:
https://www.wbez.org/stories/libraries-in-chicago-suburbs-receive-bomb-threats/96196768-b467-4e75-bf13-dda8eee99ba8
Libraries in Chicago and surrounding suburbs were closed Tuesday after receiving bomb threats.An employee at the Harold Washington Library Center, 400 S. State St., received an anonymous email saying that there was a bomb inside the building, Chicago police said. A bomb squad and canine units were sent to do a sweep of the building at about 3:50 p.m. but did not find any sign of a threat.
An employee at the Harold Washington Library Center, 400 S. State St., received an anonymous email saying that there was a bomb inside the building, Chicago police said. A bomb squad and canine units were sent to do a sweep of the building at about 3:50 p.m. but did not find any sign of a threat.
― Maxmillion D. Boosted (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 13 September 2023 14:43 (six months ago) link