Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

Halfway through. This should take us to the bittersweet end.

SOILER

BOB is a cylon

That you can only see if you're high on the drugs.

What are you talking about, there are no drugs in this season, just a couple of alcoholics

Few can see him: the gifted... and the daaaaamn dude how much did you take?

wow you guys are hilarious remind me to never write a post in 1 minute without thinking it through before a bunch of know it alls jump down my throat

fuck me for writing a few sentences about a tv show at lunch time and not being consistent. what a horrible, stupid person i am

Time for a new thread guys

We did our best.

nobody called you horrible or stupid Adam, ppl are just goofin

anyway this show is awesome

really wish there were some animated gifs from ep 8 that I could use as a screensaver or something

I made this thread to get off that subject!

I love how much Briggs there was in the last episode. You can feel how much both lynch and frost really love the character. Charlotte Stewart, although she had v little to do in the original series, is part of Lynch's Eraserhead family along with the much-missed nance & coulson, and I remember Dana ashbrook saying in interviews that he always looked upon Stewart and Davis as surrogate parents; this all comes through v strongly in the chair scene. It's also interesting to think that the Briggses are very devout Catholics (this is emphasised again in the missing pieces although it's played somewhat for laughs which is a slight return to the s1 characterisation of garland as the pompous, oblivious parent) - their faith feels key to understanding garland's message, given just before he "died", and Betty's just accepting what she had to have known was a farewell & subsequently keeping the secret till the right time.

huh I must've missed/forgotten the Catholic stuff

I only know the denomination because the frost book makes a big point of it but their Christianity was in the first season & in the missing pieces he's reading aloud to Betty from the book of revelations at the dinner table(!)

I didn't realize until embarrassingly recently that that was Charlotte Stewart in Eraserhead (which I've seen at least as many times as I've seen any of the Twin Peaks episodes she was in).

he reads from the book of revelation. that's all i remember regarding him and religiosity.

xp. are we considering the frost book as canon? i wouldn't personally

I think of Frost's book as another facet of the TP jewel. Its perspective (not to mention some of the pertinent details) doesn't quite jibe with that of the show but it's an intersting alternate take.

Which is basically Lynch's stated perspective on it, as well, iirc.

Lynch and frost are both like "canon schmanon" which is kinda my attitude too but I think we can get an idea of his conception of the character from the book

In general tho I feel like the log lady introductions and palmer family interview are more relevant than the book even though they can't logically exist in the world of the show

thanks to the allure of the ridiculous amazon prime day, I have given in and will be reading the Secret History book this weekend

what have you people done to me

I think of Frost's book as another facet of the TP jewel. Its perspective (not to mention some of the pertinent details) doesn't quite jibe with that of the show but it's an intersting alternate take.

Yeah this basically. All the books are like different approaches to the same story. Even with fwwm I remember reading that lynch told a member of the crew re discontinuity (hairstyles, locations, weather, you name it) "think of it as a parallel universe"

I'd just got used to where the tp link was in my list of bookmarks, damn it!

important erratum: in the previous thread where we were discussing that Crossroads film which seems like an important influence on the nuke sequence in episode 8, i said that the Terry Riley album that was very similar to his score to Crossroads was Persian Surgery Dervishes, but it's not, I meant to say Descending Moonshine Dervishes. I don't even own Persian Surgery Dervishes. As you were!

sorry mr. lynch pic.twitter.com/ZICATyxBwP

— Chris Person (@Papapishu) July 12, 2017

Showtime says the show is averaging around 2 million viewers across all platforms.
http://www.indiewire.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-ratings-2017-season-4-game-of-thrones-1201853930/

is that good or bad

I think that's very good in terms of the viewership of today.

I'm picturing Gordon yelling, "These are some good numbers, Tammy!"

it's not bad from what I know, but I also could not give less of a shit either way, can't imagine there'll be more episodes after this in any case

don't really see this as competition with GoT which I would think has a totally different (and stupider) audience

just gettin some ad homs in for laffs there

I'm picturing Gordon yelling, "These are some good numbers, Tammy!"

― mh, Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:47 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

haha

Seems like Showtime is genuinely pleased, so good enough.

I mean on the off chance they greenlight On the Air: The Return.

oh yeah game of thrones that reminds me

sky atlantic is gonna simulcast it which means they're not gonna simulcast twin peaks any more, it's gonna be on at 3am instead of 2am :-(

(still gonna watch it then obv)

I'm on the hook for a GoT viewing at my neighbors' sunday night which means I have to ask my Twin Peaks team to postpone to Monday night

I do not prefer this, needless to say

I did not realize GoT was going to be airing at the same time as TP. That seems unnecessarily prickish of HBO.

Andy and Lucy are really reminiscent of something about the French clowning tradition. On the Air had a lot of the same feel to it, too. Can't put my finger on it--the way they're "funny" instead of actually being funny.

shrug, nobody watches tp live anyway as documented above so whatever

xp

Was struck by how much they are literally clowns. Andy's paunch is part of the costume, but if you slapped the make up on them you wouldn't have to change their behavior one bit. xpost

why would Showtime's competition be concerned anyway? GoT is a juggernaut, i doubt HBO's much concerned about what else happens to be airing at the time.

xpsss

I did not realize GoT was going to be airing at the same time as TP. That seems unnecessarily prickish of HBO.

pretty sure they're airing it at the same time as the last 6 seasons.

my plan is to watch GoT and then TP, in that order, on sunday nights. it's really hard to do the other way around.

What shows before TP Sundays on Showtime?

the previous week's tp, by the look of it

also looks like they're changing the time - starting in august it'll be on an hour earlier. 8pm there, 1am here

TP is the first show in ages that I've made the effort to watch as its airing.

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Johnny2.jpg

kinda haunted by this shot. happened so quickly i barely noticed the photo.

oops

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Johnny2.jpg

Andy and Lucy are really reminiscent of something about the French clowning tradition. On the Air had a lot of the same feel to it, too. Can't put my finger on it--the way they're "funny" instead of actually being funny.

― Dan I., Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:15 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Was struck by how much they are literally clowns. Andy's paunch is part of the costume, but if you slapped the make up on them you wouldn't have to change their behavior one bit. xpost

― Dan I., Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:16 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is a great observation. I was trying to think of what was so weird and creepy about goaz's performance here, I think you nailed it. I normally love the a&l scenes in the return but where I think it loses something in this mode is when they go for tenderness. the way he like air-nuzzles her gives me the willies

I kind of assume my watching doesn't count as "live" even though I usually sit down within 20 minutes of airtime and watch it on demand. I think I've watched the live broadcast once.

i have found Andy's body to be really unheimlich this season tbh

the proportion of the arms to the whole is unright

do we have any off-the-set pictures of how he has his hair normally? it seems a little exaggerated, too

https://whitehotmagazine.com//UserFiles/image/%23b20/goaz%20image%209.jpg

omg amazing

Starting to think this show is going to end with Cooper deciding whether he wants to return to his old life or keep Dougie's

I'm wondering if at some point we're gonna get Booper and Dougie in the same scene together tbh

Dougie's gone, man

Mr. C and empty Cooper would be interesting, I kind of want Cooper to attack the doppelganger and squeeze his... head off?

yeah we've seen the last of dougie :-(

I think the two coops will meet and then something weird will happen

Sorry for stupid q, but is the thread title a pun on the way Cooper speaks as Dougie?

I'm gonna keep calling him Dougie as long as characters in the show do

it's the start of "drink full and descend" from the poem, I was trying to stick with the established thread title format

Ahh yeah, thanks. I just feel I can't keep up with all the references and quotes to remember, but console myself that my few fellow friends who are also watching are more or less the same. It's the ilx thread that puts so much (back) into place after every episode.

if you guys can't accept me calling him Dougie I could also go with Gooper

Dooper

although I think you should see which irritates NA more and we can run with that :)

booper is unquestionably a horrible coinage tbfttl

"...but ya doesn't has ta call me Cooper!"

I think gordon cole is channeling mr jackpots in that awkward bit of dialogue where denise says "you're on the trail of something big" and he dumbly echoes "big"

& speaking of awkward, I really wanna see more of this guy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBLc7dAWsAACl7w.jpg

I loved the bit where chad is arguing with the dispatcher and then it just pans to this deputy and just holds on his dreamy expression for several seconds

cool interview with Lillard re his scene in EP 9 http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/07/twin-peaks-matthew-lillard-interview

so the shooting scripts are definitely not episode-specific, not that they would be

I kind of wonder if a lot of the different pieces and how they fit together were pieced together in editing. I get the impression Lynch does that, just has different story elements, shoots them all, and then puts them together into his films.

Ha ha, wow, so that particular scene was Chrysta Bell's first ever acting experience. That David, I tell ya...

What are you refering to?

The Lillard interview linked above. His hysterical weeping scene this week was Bell's first scene in anything ever, apparently.

Ahhh thanks

Lillard is really good in this. I can't say I've ever noted him particularly.

mh OTM

Get the feeling after Inland (one of his most improvised works) that there's no way Lynch would go back to linear shooting

It was his first scene of the day—and the first scene in which Chrysta Bell, who plays F.B.I. Agent Tammy Preston, had performed, outside of short films and TV movies. “She’d never been on set before,” Lillard said. “So you have an actress that’s like, ‘Hi, this is my first day of acting. . . This is my first scene that I’ve ever done.’”

Astonishing that it was Bell's first day on set, because watching the series - for me as a viewer - it really felt like they deliberately handed the interrogation to her, seeing she's been doing well, growing, earned Gordon's trust etc. I had these thoughts watching it, and convinced myself she upped her game, became a bigger factor in the show handling it as well as she did.
Knowing now this was her first day, only affirms how good her acting has been. Because the second or third or fourth or whatever day came after that first shoot she had to act in "past tense", less knowledgeable or sure. That's good stuff.

I love Bell's body language. Her walking itself has so much character

tbf very few movies and shows are shot linearly, but the breakdown of what is going to appear in which episode (or where in the film a scene appears) can vary quite a bit depending on the directing/editing style. I don't think a lot of directors adhere completely to the original script, especially after viewing finished footage

tbf very few movies and shows are shot linearly

yeah wtf this is not at all unusual

the scheduling of shoots is dictated by a whole host of factors, none of which have anything to do with the narrative - location, availability of personnel, complexity of the shot, tech/crew/gear involved etc.

ah i love being corrected on ILX

I think where Lynch may differ from some other directors is that he clearly didn't give cast members entire, complete scripts. With films that's pretty normal, and with TV often there's complete episode scripts because episodes may be shot discretely - but this isn't structured like a normal tv show. Lynch (and Frost) obviously had a bunch of scenes written and a general structure in mind, but then they shot it piecemeal as inspiration and necessity dictated, then took all the assembled footage and cut it together into the sequence we're seeing now.

(that's my guess anyway)

tbf very few movies and shows are shot linearly

yeah wtf this is not at all unusual

― Οὖτις, Thursday, July 13, 2017 10:58 PM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well yeah, of course I know this. Yeez guys. That wasn't my point. Point was that Bell acted really well making it seem she 'grabbed her chance' with the interrogation after what we've seen of her before, and us viewers now learning this was her first day on set.

i actually find her acting really bad and am not surprised that she's basically a non-professional actor. real "actor in a post-war italian movie" vibes

Post-war Italian movies underrated imho :)

You really think she's "bad"?

I don't think she's been given much to work with yet, but she is being deployed in an entertaining way imo

Yeah, same. It's very "in character", but not "bad" imo.

xp. i find her body language awkward, her facial expressions affected, etc. i feel the performance is not really aligned with the qualities we usually look for in "good" acting imo. although many of the scenes have similar qualities in general and I'm sure lynch's direction is deliberate

i love that "drink full" being in the thread title is technically a spoiler but nobody knows what it fucking means anyway

call for help

Post-war Italian movies underrated imho :)

You really think she's "bad"?

― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:14 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh yeah and post-war italian movies are some of the best movies! i just found, when first watching them, that the non-professional acting combined with dubbed dialogue has a Verfremdungseffekt

xp. i find her body language awkward, her facial expressions affected, etc. i feel the performance is not really aligned with the qualities we usually look for in "good" acting imo. although many of the scenes have similar qualities in general and I'm sure lynch's direction is deliberate

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, July 13, 2017 11:17 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I get that. Lots of people not necessarily "good" acting wise on this show, but it's been that way with many other - Andy and Lucy - so it feels wholly deliberate from Lynch to me.

Bonus points for using "Verfremdungseffekt" :) I love that, and wouldn't be surprised if Lynch watched a lot of fifties/sixties Italian movies (I am binging on that particular era of Italian films right now)

8pm is an extremely bad time for this show to air if they are moving it to that slot.

Having said that the show is going to be lucrative in terms of syndication and DVD, future streaming sales.

cb sux

I did not realize GoT was going to be airing at the same time as TP. That seems unnecessarily prickish of HBO.

― Dippin' Sauce on my Nice New Slacks (Old Lunch), Friday, 14 July 2017 05:14 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anyone who's hooked on twin peaks by now will probably stay there, especially after switching to GoT and realising most prestige tv is… not that good. shakey otm re stupider audience (disclaimer: not all GoT viewers are etc etc).

why would Showtime's competition be concerned anyway? GoT is a juggernaut, i doubt HBO's much concerned about what else happens to be airing at the time.

― circa1916, Friday, 14 July 2017 05:17 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah showtime seems to be on the twin peaks wagon for reputation/brand reasons more than anything. giving lynch money for 18 hours of television is self-evidently a risk.

I'm wondering if at some point we're gonna get Booper and Dougie in the same scene together tbh

― Οὖτις, Friday, 14 July 2017 06:13 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in a show where nothing is predictable and anything could (and does) happen, good & bad cooper sharing at least one shot is the only thing i would put money on.

booper is unquestionably a horrible coinage tbfttl

― blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Friday, 14 July 2017 06:23 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otfm, it sounds like somebody should be tapping him gently on the nose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LinXXmy2Hno

i really love how gordon (twice so far) has said "APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR ALBERT" after albert has said something terrible

Wait, was was Lil's hand in the pocket and making a fist meant to mean? From FWWM.

You notice she had one hand in her pocket, which means they're hiding something; and the other hand made into a fist, which means they're gonna be belligerent.

"they" being the local authorities

Ty AA

Is "entered the zone" a reference to Stalker? Apologies if this has already been covered.

That's what Albert says in the morgue scene.

okayyyy just a couple quick things

the notion that HBO are being aggressive or whatever by airing GOT in that slot is bizarre. They've used that same timeslot for the last six years.

and no for a movie, it's totally normal to film stuff out of order. is IS weird for TV, though, and hammers home that Lynch really did plan and conceive it as an 18-hour movie.

Okay, is the fact that Matthew Lillard's wife got shot through the eye in her home just a major plot hole or what?

I didn't realize that was GoT's usual timeslot. But that still doesn't account for those new promos which just feature one GoT performer after another saying 'fuck you, Twin Peaks' to the camera. Seems aggressive to me but what do I know.

Okay, is the fact that Matthew Lillard's wife got shot through the eye in her home just a major plot hole or what?

― I'm make-believe. (jed_), Friday, 14 July 2017 13:31 (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

in what respect?

It's just never been mentioned.

it was mentioned before the interrogation.

or are you talking about the recurrence of the eye specifically?

perhaps it's just because this whole show is chekhov's regional distribution warehouse

Yeah Macklin mentioned it during the buckhorn csi season 1 recap along with the new details that George the lawyer was arrested and the secretary was murdered with a car bomb (admittedly we saw the setup to both of these things so neither is exactly surprising). It seems like the most significant parts of the buckhorn investigation were happening offscreen for us to be told-not-shown them later. It's funny, I called Westworld "a show where mystery means exposition that hasn't happened yet" but then the way this show handles eg the fact that Hastings is an occultist who went to another dimension then published a blog about it is like that in the extreme, but I'm like "yeah that's why it's good OBVIOUSLY"

I mean this last episode had an honest to god irl "as you know"!

heaps of part 9 was "as you know" in effect, which is the mean reason it's my least favourite episode to date.

I called Westworld "a show where mystery means exposition that hasn't happened yet"

i fully agree that it's happening in twin peaks. "remember that guy? who was crying seven episodes ago? and his wife died? that one? here's a billion crucial things we didn't tell you about him" isn't necessarily lazy, but i don't like being drawn out of the show by the showrunners going "wait, hi, oh hey here's some fish food, carry on, pretend i wasn't here"

The fact that they waited 7 episodes before just telling us makes me like it better I think

https://www.thekindland.com/culture/did-david-lynch-rip-off-neil-young-to-create-twin-1440

Obviously a hyperbolic statement, but having never seen Human Highway I'm curious whether there are any more than superficial similaritites.

Yeah I'd like to see it but even my friends who are also big trans & devo fans don't seem to be that into it so I was never in a hurry to check it out

still obsessed with 'shadow'

I've seen HH and uh yeah, no

Total wishful thinking from some Neil Young fan. Neil also edited down the best part of HH in the recent director's cut: the insane 9-minute jam w/ Devo on "Hey Hey My My (Into the Black)"

My brother is a huge Neil fan, so I trust his opinion that HH is a 'Piece of Crap'.

I don't know what's wrong with just saying "this reminded me of that" without making these weird claims tbh. As singular as this show is, it doesn't exist in a vacuum & is riffing on all kinds of film sub-genres. Speaking of which, I was saying a few weeks ago about watching starman & it reminding me of the mr jackpots stuff, I thought it might just be me having twin peaks on the brain but in a recent interview Kyle M said he took inspiration from Bridges's performance so that was a nice bit of vindication

I kept thinking yesterday about the facial expression when he's drinking coffee, and the lip movement when he doesn't quite smack his lips really reminds me of elderly people sitting around at a retirement home

He's doing amazing work for sure. That shot of his face as he sat in the vegas police dept was so great

not sure why people are thinking HBO has given one thought to TP S3 at all given that GOT is a global phenomenon (was compared to being as big as Star Wars on 'The Watch' pod the other day)

I love Bell's body language. Her walking itself has so much character

ha yeah I think she's comprised of equal parts catwalk and vamp. I found her inability to stop gyrating in place during the smoking scene hilarious

Jumpin Joseph. pic.twitter.com/WpE6HX2OnB

— frozen reeds (@frozenreeds) July 12, 2017

Nice! @frozenreeds is an esteemed former ilxor who I miss seeing on the classical threads, btw

Ha, that makes sense! Love his tweets.

Love seeing Bernard Shakey hanging out with Dr. Jacoby and Betty Briggs (and Cameron Crowe and Gerald Casale) tbh. Shovel yrselves out of the ditch and into the truth!
http://www.trbimg.com/img-56d5c730/turbine/la-et-ms-neil-young-film-human-highway-screeni-001/950/950x534

I forgot to ask earlier: was Miguel ferrer able to film all of his stuff for the season before he passed away?

this is good

http://filmmakermagazine.com/102922-like-sand-through-the-hourglass-twin-peaks-the-return/#.WWkeSITyuUk

IIRC, none of the staggeringly-large number of TP actors who've died recently died while filming was still underway. Maybe Catherine Coulson?

But Miguel Ferrer died fairly recently, so he was at least alive throughout filming (how well he was is a different question, I suppose).

this is good

http://filmmakermagazine.com/102922-like-sand-through-the-hourglass-twin-peaks-the-return/#.WWkeSITyuUk🕸

Thanks for this, it is indeed

Harry Dean turned 91 today

will smoke a pack today in his honor

I think coulson died *before* principal filming started, which is why it was such a surprise when she was on the cast list. Don't think anyone died during filming - maybe the guy who plays toad

the log lady scenes to me feel almost like he just gave her a bunch of lines to read and then wrote the script around those lines later

The script was apparently finished before they took it to showtime so I imagine she's reading a very pared-down version of the part they'd originally written for her & they tweaked the rest of the script appropriately

here's something that popped into my head today: what the hell happened to that state cop who was accompanying the buckhorn investigators? He just disappeared from the narrative entirely. I know that happens in this but unlike any of the other characters we've only seen once I can't see what function he serves if he doesn't come back - he'll have been a literally pointless character. Maybe he'll be the one to investigate the warden's death?

I also want to hear an update about the state trooper who got radiation poisoning or whatever from the garmonbozia.

I'm kinda feeling that we'll never get those people back and I think it's a shame. In some cases it's a hanging thread but in many others it feels like they forgot about things.

I met up with a friend, who's a massive Lynch fan, and we felt the same way: that the humour falls flat in this. I have found very little of this funny even, or especially, the things that are meant to be funny. He agreed with me also that the Dougie thing was incredibly drawn out and not funny. My objection to the Dougie thread is not that pace or the slowness but that it's not interesting, not funny and, in some sense utterly superfluous (so far! I'd love to be proven wrong)

Playing devils advocate here, I just feel like the Dougie thing is completely pointless and that's the programme would have been better without it and that a lot mor bad cooper in its place would have been better. I was just incredibly excited when KM came in as bad cooper and there's not a single thing about Dougie that interests me. My friend was raving about how good Naomi Watts was but I don't see it. I just think he fancies her (as he should) and thinks that = an amazing performance. I think her performance is shrill and lacks nuance or skill but what's she going to do with the material she has to work with?

Im still liking it, on the whole.

To be clear, I'm deliberately hedging my bets here because I want this to become awesome but I'm also sick of people telling me how amazing this whole thing is whereas, to me it's like 25% amazing and 50% good and the rest is waste, as Mark E Smith said.

I find the different register between nuclear explosion + aftermath and possible huge repercussions and Andy and Lucy talking about armchair colours to be not very satisfying.

Disliking the Dougie stuff is fair, honestly seems designed to frustrate and disrupt. But I guess that's part of what's appealing about it to me? It's aggressive, strange, alien and something you would never fucking see anyone else dare to do.

Also there are 9 hours left, so pretty early to complain about loose threads. Though sure, there will likely be plenty.

Jed, maybe this show isn't for you.

The decision to essentially give Dougie dementia does seem arbitrary; I don't think we've ever seen anyone come out of the Black Lodge before or have it established in any way that that's what happens when you do. I'm guessing Frost helped guide that decision, considering Warren Frost's condition. I find it very moving for personal reasons, as I've said before, and I think MacLachlan's performance is brilliant. But how willing you are to accept that initial aesthetic decision probably goes a long way towards how engaged you are with the execution--for me it works because that's life with a dementia sufferer, it just goes on, drags on, in a mixture of bewilderment and frustration.

The initial reveal of Bad Coop as greasy and Bob-like was cool but the character is really thin for me, and low lifes and thugs are characters Lynch doesn't have a good feel for imo, they're generally only redeemed by the lamp karaoke, baby voices, odd technology, magic tricks etc.

I was hoping for more Dougie this episode. But I was very happy with all that Tammy.

Can't remember who was unhappy with Tim Roth, but can I ask why?

Je55e, it's totally for me.

I didn't express any unhappiness with Roth but I will now. He was lame. The brief shot of the passed out (drugged? dead?) farmers and the cheeto hand off made the scene though.

My friend was raving about how good Naomi Watts was but I don't see it. I just think he fancies her (as he should) and thinks that = an amazing performance.

:|

Tim Roth was lame in what way?

At least give him time to be lame.

xps yeah i feel like giving even the frustrating stuff a free pass because the whole is so good.

the comedy is landing for me, but not the super-obvious stuff (e.g. lucy & andy), more the gordon moments, tammy vamping insecurely, the black comedy that is diane

He looked like he didn't know what to do with his body and just slouched. He didn't make any impression beyond an actor acting, for me. Would've been better to grab an interesting looking nobody off the street, as Lynch has often done in the past.

I honestly can't see the frustration that the Dougie storyline is unfunny. Of COURSE it's unfunny, it's a person with the outward appearance of someone we love, unable to engage with or process the interactions of everyday life, against which the flashes of personality or character evoke deep twinges of affection, and joy which is swiftly dashed when the curtain closes again. If it's funny, it's funny in the whistling-past-the-graveyard, pitch-black absurdist, Grand Guignol sense. As is all the stilted humour and human-comedy of this series. It's both deeply sad and powerfully connecting, I can't take my eyes off it.

Good post M.

I don't see how the Grand Guignol extends to Andy & Lucy, unless they're setting us up for something...

I think the show would benefit from some variation in the pace & rhythm of the dialogue, let the actors breathe a bit

I think a lot of the Dougie stuff is just straightforwardly funny.

jed_, your post seems super foreign to me because this last episode is probably the most that TP (and maybe even the entirety of Lynch's output) has made me laugh.

me too, it was consistently hilarious.

aimed at no one in particular: whether or not you find mr jackpots hilarious (i don't), does it matter? as matthewk said, he's not really a comedy vehicle, but people get what they get from it, opinions is opinions etc. if you laugh, you laugh. it's twin peaks.

"It's twin peaks" otm; ppl have always struggled with this idea that a lot of what we're shown is "arbitrary" or "superfluous" - why are we seeing this thing that isn't an investigation or a criminal conspiracy or whatever when we have investigations and conspiracies to check in on? It's been a thing in this show since forever. I'd have trouble applying either of those adjectives to cooper's story tho because it feels like a lot of thought has gone into how and where he would come out and what he'd be like when he did (annie was catatonic after 1 night in the lodge, multiply that by 9125) and also because, you know, it's cooper's story. But yeah if I didn't find the vegas stuff funny or interesting (I do, a lot, obv) I'd be less keen on the show too!

What if he doesn't and it's a giant tease tho, that thought keeps coming to me (esp in the shower every morning, no idea why) and it'd really piss me off. Not that there hasn't been enough to enjoy (or love, James' smile, Bobby's tears, Ben apparently becoming a good man, so many other little moments), but REALLY. It's David Lynch, last thing I trust him with is fulfilling viewers' hopes.

I mean, what if this is it for Cooper. Kinda read yr post as "when will he come out of Dougie" not "when will he come out of the Lodge".

I didn't know people were so anxious about things unfolding and becoming a disappointment, like you and Jed up here. That thought has not crossed my mind once since The Return. I'm way more in a 'sit back and enjoy the crazy ride' mode instead of fretting about how it could go haywire. I've not seen anything that indicates that this will end a disappointment tbh. And indeed, still 9 hours to go people!

I mean, what if this is it for Cooper. Kinda read yr post as "when will he come out of Dougie" not "when will he come out of the Lodge".

Oh no I meant the latter, I was talking about what we've seen so far. For the record though Cooper will recover his identity, Leland told him to find Laura and he will, there is a 0% chance it won't go that way. This story isn't confounding in that way, it's prob Lynch's most linear since the straight story

Watts asked Lynch, later, when they became friends, “Why did you pick me? Why my headshot?” She got a kick out of the director’s answer, and she straightens on the sofa to give a full-bodied impression of what Lynch told her. She squints as if through cigarette smoke, and yaps: “I don’t know, Naomi! It was just the look in yer eye!”

Can not hear Lynch saying this in any other way than Gordon right now. Great long interview with Watts in the Guardian, not about Twin Peaks but worthwhile all the same.

(I'd not heard of that series but it sounds intriguing, is it any good?)

(Gypsy that is)

Haha watts is always good value

A gun id kinda love to go unfired is the room key; I think Audrey seeing it is still a strong possibility, but it'd be funny if its only purpose was to remind Ben of Laura Palmer - or better yet if Bellina Logan's character sees it several episodes from now, picks it up and stares curiously at it for several minutes before enthusiastically throwing it in the trash

There's a shot that's been in Showtime's promos from day one, of post-Dougie Cooper driving and glancing in his rear view mirror at something behind him -- a shot that hasn't happened yet in the series. If Coop doesn't snap out of it, that'll be a pretty amazing bait & switch.

It's David Lynch, last thing I trust him with is fulfilling viewers' hopes.

it's also mark frost, who has most likely filled a disused stadium with well-described, thoroughly plotted secrets and mysteries.

btw gypsy is being slammed according to the metacritic aggregate.

Did Johnny Horne knock a hole in the wall? If so, there could be a bunch of things hidden behind it. If not, I guess he's a means to draw Audrey into the story.

There could be candy in that wall!

The promos have shown Cooper driving and also looking around concerned, although who knows what his personality will be like. That bag of jackpot money is waiting for him to hit the road.

He's looking for Jade so that he can give her two rides.

that hole in the wall is the first step toward building a magic box to summon lodge spirits.

oh shit candy, yeah it's probably candy.

Could be full of frog/locust things. :(

I forgot about the money! The screenwriters' equivalent of a lucky 7 insurance payout for the widow jones?

I'm kinda steeling myself for graphic torture & murder of the warden in the next episode

followed by some snacking

Gar-mon-bo-zi-a

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/2f/62/f82f62a8910480cb33b7133d020c3caa--puffs-pretty-things.jpg

Update: I didn't get to it last week, but switched out my Sunday cortado for a green tea latte this morning and, having finally tried one, can now assume its appearance in this is a callback to the time there was a fish in the percolator 🤢

https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/3kz4x9/the-zelda-twin-peaks-connection-is-real

one of the many reasons why Link's Awakening is the best Zelda game

awesome link Karl

i haven't even played link's awakening! i have to grab a rom

i sold my snes recently :-/ life regrets

You all saw this, right?

http://thesearchforthezone.com/

yep, there was some discussion about it upthread. i was especially curious about the hidden lat/long. i think somehow i fucked up when i c+p'd into google maps, because it led to an intersection a mile or two away from my house, but everyone else got a location somewhere in south dakota iirc

What's weird to me is that one of the links is to the Rapid City Journal, which is a real newspaper, and the most read story there right now is about DUNE (plus the story they're leading on is about prison escapees)

hey now take it to the tv shows within tv shows: an ocd thread for jaymc and nabisco thread

actually watching live tonight beginning with the end of last episode and Bobby saying, "Well, that's my dad" nearly made me weepy

I kind of wonder if Lynch and Frost's image of the Tammy character was "precocious, trying to act sexy and mature but not quite nailing it"

having now read about half of the "Secret History" book, the character's notations seem intelligent but the personal interjections are kind of lol

omfg dougie's arms flopping

Douggie horny

...he said some beautiful things

lol Jesus Christ this series

Also we was cheated! 6 minutes left in the hour!

The scenes in/surrounding Gordon's hotel room were so intense

Maybe my favorite so far. Except #8, which is a co-favorite.

Lots of long shots with missing action or dialogue. Loved Candie's going off on some tangent. And lol, why send her when she you know she's not good at stuff?

The women in pink in the office are fantastic.

Also loved the music during Richard Horne's violent scene at the Horne home.

Also loved the blatant expository dialogue.

Candie is my new favorite Twin Peaks character.

This EP hopefully should put to rest the "TP isn't funny" notion

Also loved the blatant expository dialogue.

mr todd basically stepping out of frame and giving the audience a quick cliffs notes was… interesting

Way back in 2014 when this was first announced, the only spoiler mark frost would give was "at some point, you will see a coffee cup fly through a window"

haha wow

Guys. Run Silent Run Drapes. I mean...wow.

that was marvellous. nadine makes a full recovery and becomes an entrepreneur.

weird having two episodes of straight exposition in a row, with some sweet moments (albert!) and some of the most deeply harrowing images i've seen in a while.

dale's clearly not waking up for a while now that there's a new hitmen subplot. anyone who's waiting for The Big Awakening might want to reassess what they're getting from the world of mr jackpots (they called him that!!).

btw it's looking solidly like richard is audrey's daughter. can't see that going well for audrey fans.

btw when janey-e was getting her rocks off it sounded like she was screaming "DOUG-E" more than just "DOUGIE"

This episode was fantastic I thought, & yeah really disturbing and funny. Love the outcome of the long-awaited trip to the doctor

late-50s kyle is fit as fuck

also the sylvia/johnny horne scene reminded me heavily of this for some reason

http://idyllopuspress.com/idyllopus/film/images/co/co_writeronfloor.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE58c49XUAA0C5O.jpg:large

that was an excellent ...part

i didn't really like candy

candie was great. now I feel bad for talking shit about amy shiels.

although my favorite part of this episode was rebekah del rio's song, that was fucking staggering. she is so good.

MOBY

candie is my favorite character on this show

but this show also has gordon cole

Candie rules, i love space cadets

everyone who has theories about time fuckery in this season: i think lucy shares your theory

the question that keeps me coming back is, when will richard horne get supermurdered

I know this is weird but I thought Rebekah del Rio was Sherilyn Fenn

That certainly is weird.

AA, you are OTM re: Clockwork Orange parallels in Richard's home invasion. I was thinking the same thing. Can't wait until he's ultramegahellamurdered.

Rebekah Del Rio!!!! That song was really beautiful, written by Lynch and Neff. I was hLf expecting her to collapse and for the song to continue playing nonetheless.

This was great. Mr. C in the penthouse!

yay, it wasn't just me! more than a couple of kubrick nods in this show then xp

I know this is weird but I thought Rebekah del Rio was Sherilyn Fenn

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 17 July 2017 14:04 (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

her zig-zag dress in front of the curtains was incredibly waiting-roomy

is everyone just pretending moby wasn't playing in that band

all bald white men with glasses look the same

I did not realize that Moby was playing in that band. Just...what.

So! What the eff was up with Gordon seeing Laura when Albert showed up?!?!

This one was the biggest bummer so far. Richard and his Satanic evil amplify the already extreme brute, pulp violence that Lynch favors but that is one of my least favorite aspects of his work.

The other musicians weren't credited? I take it one was John Neff?

A+ episode. I felt like this one really nailed the old Twin Peaks vibe of combining dark brutality with lots of oddly humorous scenes.

i got clockwork vibes as well but Lynch referencing Kubrick seems unintentional to me

"is everyone just pretending moby wasn't playing in that band"

yeah I wasn't really looking at the band here

Also that Laura clip was kind of weird

So Richard Horne has to be Audrey's son, right?

Also I'm very curious as to whom EvilCoop was talking to in that photo.

moby

So Richard Horne has to be Audrey's son, right?

― The Marmadook (latebloomer), Monday, 17 July 2017 15:17 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

unless johnny somehow had a kid there's no other explanation. pretty sure the secret history mentions something about there only being johnny and audrey in the horne family. together with doc hayward's comment about bad coop "visiting" audrey in hospital 25 years ago, it's all pointing to richard being the demon spawn of bad coop (most likely BOB) and audrey.

the show is slowly but firmly moving from series-of-mysteries to series-of-facts, even with new mysteries being thrown on the pile ever so often (e.g. the log lady's brand new stream of riddles)

*every so often

This was one of the more succinct and straightforward episodes so far.

log lady scenes hit me hard

I thought this episode was spectacular and quite relentless; it also felt the most like the old Twin Peaks so far (with dread arising both from the various instances of violence and from Laura appearing outside Gordon's room and then Tammy arriving in portentous slow motion). It also struck me as one of the more ~problematic~ ones in its depiction of women so far.

Good episode but...

#1: I heard a few moments of Auto-Tune on Rebekah Del Rio, was there someone in the band live processing (or using a vocoder)?

#2: Not sure I buy into Dr. Jacoby morphing from a chill aloha-bro who loves golf to this piss and vinegar Howard Beale... without some sort of back-story or prompting at least.

There was def autotune, I think she was just miming in classic twin peaks/mulholland dr fashion

Although voices & instruments being processed as if by magic is an established thing in this world, if you think back to one of the greatest scenes in the original (James singing in the living room)

Dancing OTM with the problematic depiction of women in this ep

I heard directly from David Lynch that the final episode of Twin Peaks will be all Moby

i always think "i bet that's the last time i'll ever think about moby", and then about a year later, there he is again

I clocked all the dudes in her band but they just looked like dudes in a band, then I saw the moby credit as "musician" and I was like I bet he was one of those dudes but I couldn't tell you which one

the bald white guy with the glasses, or maybe the other bald white guy with the glasses

the one playing guitar

(sussed by a bald dude who has worn glasses)

the question that keeps me coming back is, when will richard horne get supermurdered

Only one woman for the job imo - filicide, baby!

Killing Miriam, choking his grandma & then calling her a cunt, threatening to rape his mentally ill uncle: hate to say it but this guy was more sympathetic when he was flattening that kid. Conversely belushi's menace dissipated as soon as he had more than a few lines.

As fun as Albert on a date & other light relief is, once again what saves this from being just oppressively bleak is Carl & Margaret's rueful empathy; that roadhouse performance was only missing an ancient waiter saying "I'm so sorry" to a crying Bobby

Maybe i was just feeling cranky by then because this episode was a big let down for me, but man I did not enjoy that rebekah del rio song at all. It was way too oversung with nothing interesting going on there. I kept waiting for sky ferreira's character to come back but i was disappointed.

In contrast, that little bit with carl singing on his guitar was such a charming offhand moment.

Loved the R. Del Rio song. She also sang the song in Mulholland Dr., the one where the performer falls down and the singing continues.

I know that technically wouldn't have been his grandma if so, but...what if Richard is Donna's son?

Not my fave episode by a long shot. The stuff with the mobsters and Candie went on too long and was unfunny. Dug the Gordon hotel scene. Dougie stuff was mainly ehh but Naomi Watts really gorg when she plays "flirty". Overall though way too choppy and all over the place.

Besides Audrey, is Big Ed the only original series regular who hasn't made an appearance yet? It occurred to me that Margaret's conversation with Hawk presages the return of the Bookhouse Boys, which would mean we're likely to see him soon, not to mention more James.

Sadly, the actor who played Joey Paulson does not appear to be in the new series.

Yeah the autotune in that Del Rio song was off-putting. I keep expecting Lana Del Rey to appear in an episode but maybe that's too obvious.

Speaking of characters who deserve to get supermurdered - CHAD

chad is perfect

rewatching bits, noticed constance and albert are at a sort of dinner table and the conversation is sort of lively. probably nothing but fuck knows what counts as not-nothing in this show.

this was a great episode imo, and also oddly v straightforward and focused

oh, and are we now to believe that Diane is in cahoots with bad cooper? and so was her reaction to him at the prison a charade?

i got the impression she's been roped into something she doesn't want a part of, so maybe historical involvement? maybe she was coerced into something? who knows

Props to Kyle and Naomi for a sex scene that managed to be both funny and sweet. Definitely a sense of gathering dread here tho. The Log Lady's warnings to Hawk had the vibe of getting ready for some nasty stuff, and then the song is "No Stars." I think we can anticipate hellishness ahead.

Maybe that's DoppelDiane instead of Real Diane.

We still don't know who Linda is, do we?

i guess RUN SILENT RUN DRAPES is nadine's business? or was that a vision? why would she have a shovel in the window

to shovel herself out of the shit

hell yeah

I liked how Candie went down to the casino floor and gave Sizemore the weather report, like Lynch used to do on his website.

I was trying to figure out if that's really what she was saying, but then I remember the fly-swatting scene. Yeah, that was probably it.

oh, and are we now to believe that Diane is in cahoots with bad cooper? and so was her reaction to him at the prison a charade?

― akm, Monday, July 17, 2017 5:58 AM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i sorta feel like gordon, albert, and tammy don't have all the information here

it looked like she was down there talking about the mr jackpots day, pointing around the casino etc xp

I'm sure in the grand scheme of things this episode is not much different from most of the others, but it seemed a lot more pulpy and the dialogue more ham-fisted (on purpose) for large stretches.

Sizemore's extended riff on Dougie ending with him making, for absolute sure, that they know they "have an enemy in Douglas Jones" was leaving me guessing about which party thought the other one was dumber

AA, that'd make sense, it'd be big news but she would know the brothers are pissed

Brad otm about the Diane situation. We're only getting bits and pieces of the last couple decades. We know she's been in contact with him at some point, but whether it was continuing to work together until she skipped out because he's evil, or if he's somehow blackmailing her with the promise the real Dale is out there, it's unclear

The other possibility, that she's still willingly working for him, seems really unlikely giving her visceral reaction back at the prison

Is Janey-E wearing the same thing every day? I feel like another shoe will drop w/ that character (Naomi has been fantastic).

Sizemore doing Ed Sullivan with the hand gestures and hairstyle?

before bed i just want to state the obvious about bad coop, which is that the two photos of him that we've seen (one stood in the nyc glass box room, one stood outside the big-arse mansion in the tropics) point to him being the billionaire and/or working for a billionaire

nm about Janey-E's outfits, not sure why I thought that.

i paused and tried to see who bad cooper was talking to by the big glass box in the photo, but i couldn't tell who it was. it looked like a bald (?) guy with glasses (?) in a trenchcoat (?) in the foreground and someone else behind him

It looked like either Tobias Funke or a Doppelfunke.

another brilliant Catherine disguise

Whoever it was, he was definitely wearing jorts.

I've gotta say, if he's an actual criminal billionaire, he is living a lot dirtier than any other billionaire

He doesn't have to be an actual billionaire, that's just something the NY kid heard secondhand. Seems to me you could afford the same setup with drug lord money.

seems possible

we still have no idea what the Philip Jeffries connection is to any of the South American shenanigans, other than the fact it's unlikely he'll have any screen time

rather, we don't know anything about how that'll play out other than Bowie likely not showing up

It was implied during Dooper's conversation with him that it may not have been the real Phillip Jeffries, for whatever that's worth.

The supposed story is the bad Cooper was "working undercover" with Jeffries, but whether that's in any way true is yet to be seen. If Jeffries didn't go rogue, then maybe Mr. C snuffed him years ago. I'm wondering if the bullshit about working undercover was a way he lured Diane into things, only for her to realize too late that it wasn't real.

When Evil Cooper thinks he's speaking to Jeffries their conversation goes something like:
NOT JEFFRIES: I missed you in New York, you're still in South Dakota?
EC: Yes, and you're still nowhere, is that correct?

"nowehere" could mean a lot of things up to and including not resembling Bowie anymore. The New York things seems to confirm EC is involved w/ the glass box and the Experiment might be the thing on the playing card that he says he's after.

I'm reasonably sure that was the real Jeffries right up until David Bowie died, then they threw in the line hinting that it might be an imposter and made him/not him more of a phantom presence. How they'll resolve it I've no idea, though.

We still don't know who Linda is, do we?

We know she is a wounded veteran who just finally got her wheelchair, but she still hasn't appeared onscreen.

A month ago I'd have been like "that's a Linda, not necessarily the Linda", but that sort of wrongfooting the audience isn't really happening, perhaps surprisingly (still think the Diane thing might be an exception)

there was some good stuff in this episode but it was the first time an episode felt like it was treading water imo - explicitly connecting a few dots, reiterating certain character beats/traits, but not much else

Here's something I could be completely wrong about: the actor Scott Coffey who was in Mulholland Dr and Inland Empire as the voice of one of the rabbits is in the announced cast list but hasn't appeared yet. The voice Cooper's talking to in the motel room sorta sounds like his in the scene in IE where the audio gets a little distorted and he says "It was the man in the green coat..." (I've seen IE 4 times and just rewatched it earlier this year lol). Whoever or whatever Jeffries is now, that guy could be portraying him/it.

Have any voices been credited so far (arm, not-foot, "hello Johnny, how are you today)?

i paused and tried to see who bad cooper was talking to by the big glass box in the photo, but i couldn't tell who it was. it looked like a bald (?) guy with glasses (?) in a trenchcoat (?) in the foreground and someone else behind him

moby

I thought he looked a little bigger than Moby, but then I think Moby was weirdly in the cast list and not just in the usual musicians' credits so maybe.

Twin peaks but moby instead of coffee

TP fans: a character impregnating someone in a coma is a step too far even for this show
Also TP fans: lol dougie fuckin

Have any voices been credited so far (arm, not-foot, "hello Johnny, how are you today)?

― blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Monday, July 17, 2017 10:27 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't know how I forgot that nightmarish teddy bear robot. I think overexposure to that thing would be enough to keep anyone in a sustained state of Johhny Horne-dom.

The fly swatting scene was a master class in telegraphing a punchline and then dragging it out to a ridiculous length before finally delivering.

I read on the twin peaks wiki that Lynch actually voices jerry's foot!

There's something about Richard's character that's been bothering me (beyond the obvious). Assuming this theory about his being Cooper's illegitimate son pans out, I wonder if his more extreme behavior only started to manifest recently, say around the time the good Dale left the Lodge? Because I find it hard to believe that he could've been operating at such a level of overt psychopathy for long without being dead or in jail. Or maybe it is just the drugs making everyone nuts.

I mean, like, even Leo Johnson was able to avoid behaving like a complete maniac when among the general public.

He wasn't rich

yeah young scion of a rich white family w corrupt cops on the payroll buys a lot of leeway

his grandma seemed to know what he wanted immediately so he apparently has some sort of reputation as an asshole

How quickly we forget Augustus and Ruth Johnson of the Johnson Tuna dynasty, who summered in Twin Peaks with their wayward son Leonard and perished under mysterious circumstances.

i wonder how close jerry is to jack rabbit's palace?

Yeah, no doubt Richard's been a d-bag for a while but I have a hard time believing he could even set foot in public if his average week includes the public molestation and casual slaughter of the town's residents.

I feel like Cole seeing Laura was foreshadowing his death :/

That's certainly what I thought was happening for a moment until his vision cleared.

Oh man if mr c murders gordon

stop fucking with my emotions, wins!

dynamicinterface, that occurred to me too.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DE86e3WXoAEn9Tn.jpg:large

the repetition of "douglas" made me think of lynch's speech at the premiere in may

“I like trees and I love wood. I like to cut wood. Tonight, we’re going to a place where the trees are primarily Douglas firs.

Douglas firs are a beautiful tree and if we’re very quiet, we can hear the wind rustling the needles as we move through the forest, getting closer and closer. And now, we’re here.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the world of Twin Peaks!”

My take on Richard is that he was always a bad seed, but the Balthazar Getty super drugs turned him into a rampaging psycho.

That is probably an accurate take.

paused and tried to see who bad cooper was talking to by the big glass box in the photo, but i couldn't tell who it was. it looked like a bald (?) guy with glasses (?) in a trenchcoat (?) in the foreground and someone else behind him

It looked like Dr Bunsen Honeydew.

I don't buy that Red is manufacturing super drugs. Seems like Richard is just a psycho high on coke.

This episode felt like a regression. Agree that it was treading water and reiterating a lot of things we know. The Richard Horne stuff just makes me not to watch anymore. I actually appreciated the trailer scene, where his killing is done off camera and you are left to imagine. The scene with his grandmother just felt unnecessary and cruel/sadistic. Kind of felt it deserved a trigger warning for the language too.

it def turned my wife off.

imo they cut whatever the drugs are supposed to be with garmonbozia

also:

pic.twitter.com/Fqpof2NSuw

— david binch (@apepsibath) July 16, 2017

I thought this episode had lots of great stuff in it and I love the series but I totally understand that reaction to the Richard scene. Particularly with Johnny tied up, very brutal.

unfortunately unrelated https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/16/poundland-delays-launch-of-twin-peaks-chocolate-bar-amid-legal-row

i wish there was a injunction against the breastaurant

Visceral, raging brutality is often present throughout Lynch's work. Why would this surprise anyone?

there's a difference between surprise and disgust

It was a tad fucked that Richard was strangling his grandmother's throat as she was giving him the combo for the safe. I suppose that's Lynch establishing he's full out psycho, but I dunno, felt forced?

(xpost) I get that. But you don't sit and watch a Lynch feature not expecting to be occasionally disgusted. Except for maybe "The Straight Story".

felt...forced

By that token Frank Booth's extended apartment attack on Dorothy Valens is forced as well. This is a Lynch trademark and doesn't feel out of the norm for me as a viewer.

Yeah, I agree with you Jay Vee. That's his shtick

It's horrible to watch that's for sure.

Did Johnny's nightmare bear continue to speak through that entire scene?

But it does reinforce how pathetic Richard is - he's not so much a bad ass as a real piss-ant who takes advantage of those who can't defend themselves.

Yeah the bear continued to speak, which makes the scene way more intense

In re the violence, it is disturbing and has always left Lynch open to fair criticism, particularly his portrayals of violence against women. I think the defense of it is that his violence is shocking the way real violence in the world is shocking. It disrupts all the surfaces of social contracts and norms and reveals rawer instincts below. (Lynch of course very into revealing things that lurk below.) So I think there's more to its persistence in his work than exploitation, it's one of the facets of nature -- human and otherwise -- that he is drawn to.

Both

1) the shot of Richard Horne reflected in the glass door, so his face is embedded in Miriam's chest; and
2) "you have an enemy IN Douglas Jones"

seem references to Bob lodged in (and dug out of?) BadCoop's chest or just more generally the fact that one being can inhabit another

I wouldn't say it wasn't artistically unjustifiable, given the dichotomy/polarities of decency and evil he's setting up but the prolonged assault with the mentally disabled adult she cares for watching and afraid...I think we can understand why some viewers even familiar w and fans of Lynch's aesthetics would be hopeful not to see something like that again.

yeah tipsy OTM

and again, it's normal to like a director like Lynch and also find fault or dislike some of his storytelling (and even hold out hope his approach changes)

meeting complaints with "well it's David Lynch, what'd you expect?" is kind of useless when someone does expect the violence but holds out hope it's approached differently

it's not by any means a deal breaker for me and there are a million things in his work that appeal versus the handful I wish were different but not to the extent I walk away

It felt a bit more like this was about violence against women, rather than being exploitative (i do think the criticisms he faces on that front are generally justified)

i paused and tried to see who bad cooper was talking to by the big glass box in the photo, but i couldn't tell who it was. it looked like a bald (?) guy with glasses (?) in a trenchcoat (?) in the foreground and someone else behind him

― na (NA), Monday, July 17, 2017 3:13 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/wpid-article-1317296589811-0e24b9d000000578-503975_636x338.jpg

I wasn't particularly shocked or repulsed by it. I was, however, pretty repulsed and disappointed in the hit and run on the child a few episodes ago.

I was more shocked when he called her a cunt as le left.

I have some half-formed thought in my head about the intensity of that scene feeling more oppressive than it might've because Johnny was essentially a proxy for the viewer, watching it all unfold and incapable of doing anything to prevent it.

I had the same thought, Old Lunch. It kind of makes it even worse that I just kept willing Johnny to somehow break free and assault Richard -- really, it should have been about protecting his mom, not being violent to Richard in return

making viewers want something horrible and violent to happen to this horrible fictional man is a conscious thing

Imagine if that scene were actually filmed with the camera on its side, as one unbroken shot from his perspective. Like that horrific scene from Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. Eeesh.

xpost way upthread to mh -- Must be a generatiional thing (I'm in my late '40s) but I kind of let creative folks I deeply admire "do their thing", even if I am disappointed by approaches they may eventually take in their art, and never hope they will change those approaches in order to meet my needs. That would be worse in my eyes.

I think the man sitting opposite bad Cooper is wearing a lab coat rather than a trench coat.

Richard Horne's face seems kind of distorted and weird, like a Picasso face -- did they somehow distort or prosthetize him or is that just what the actor actually looks like?

interesting point from an online commenter"

"Big takeaway: Chad pocketed the letter from Miriam Hodges, yet Miriam's last name is actually Sullivan as seen in the credits. So he got the wrong letter and the real one will still make it to the TPSD."

Yeah, i wonder how Richard expects to flee with such a face? Surely he'd be identified in no time.

xxp "creative folks" change their approaches all the time, during their lives, not just responding to critical reviews but the changing social climate, their own maturity, and their own experiences

I don't want my needs met. I just think certain changes would be nice. Also, I'm not one to hold Lynch to this, and I'm personally relatively fine with the level of violence. I'm articulating why criticizing reviewers for having their opinions is a slippery slope

xpost I have a feeling Lynch just picked some weird looking folks for this. Amanda Seyfried's bf (can't remember the character name) is one inbred, devilish looking mf'er.

xpost way upthread to mh -- Must be a generatiional thing (I'm in my late '40s) but I kind of let creative folks I deeply admire "do their thing", even if I am disappointed by approaches they may eventually take in their art, and never hope they will change those approaches in order to meet my needs. That would be worse in my eyes.

― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, July 17, 2017 2:10 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can agree with that. I may enjoy the work of an artist who always gives me exactly what I want and whose work always mirrors my own view of the world but they aren't going to be an artist that I engage with particularly deeply.

Can't decide if I like the official Twin Peaks twitter account (which is pretty deep spoiler-y) or not. Their latest tweet spells out a lot that most of us probably missed.

xposts

Suspect description: looks evil

I mean, David Lynch is a grown human being and not a fucking bonsai tree, criticism isn't personally shaping him, it's feedback that he can take how he likes! If he repeatedly gets the same criticism and it rolls off him, then he's intentional

this whole "can't hurt the artist's process" thing is insulting to both artists and viewers

xxpost do tell! (heading to Twitter)

xxp Albert, which tweet? I'm scrolling through and it doesn't seem to spoilery (unless you missed the pointed Log Lady comment)

I find some of Lynch's monsters more sophisticated and chilling in their conception than others, and therefore even when their actions are extremely disturbing I feel like I'm not just watching cheap pulp exploitation. Richard and Ike the Spike to me are more in line with the dumb brute, gross-out psychos like the hit men in Wild at Heart, and not necessarily what some people who prefer Twin Peaks to Lynch's other work had been waiting for.

"Except for maybe "The Straight Story"."

so glad he cut the dog raping scene from that movie

Richard Horne actually has the nose that classical statues have where there is no break, or indentation between the slope of the forehead and the slope of the nose. This was the aesthetic ideal in Ancient Greece but it looks weird when you see it in the flesh.

http://www.stickpng.com/assets/thumbs/585693984f6ae202fedf2724.png

wow you're totally right

i feel like somehow he looks the way vamps on buffy look except no fangs

Apparently he was hand picked for the role after starring in a film by Jennifer Lynch
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1989475/

couldn't find anything spoilery in the twin peaks twitter, unless you haven't watched the latest episode.

x-posts

Leonine, in a bad way. (I'm sure I've seen it in a good way...)

herman cain where is he now? posting articles with out-of-context stills of twin peaks pic.twitter.com/93rRRDde51

— POST MAN (@MatthewPWells) July 17, 2017

maybe they deleted it? let me go find it...

Or is this not the official TP twitter?

Two Miriams?

Via https://t.co/qe4ETRHKGE #TwinPeaks pic.twitter.com/AfpwW05QWE

— Twin Peaks ✉️ (@ThatsOurWaldo) July 17, 2017

It's followed by Mark Frost but not David Lynch...

no, that's 'welcome to twin peaks' twitter. they're a fan website. but an astute one.

from their website:

WELCOME TO TWIN PEAKS IS NOT AFFILIATED WITH RANCHO ROSA, SHOWTIME, OR TWIN PEAKS PRODUCTIONS.

fwiw (not fwim) the only "official" one is the showtime-affiliated one at https://twitter.com/sho_twinpeaks

unless you count mark frost and david lynch at

https://twitter.com/mfrost11
and
https://twitter.com/DAVID_LYNCH

also it's called @ThatsOurWaldo

Okay, sorry about that. Anyways, my point still stands that that account is perhaps borderline too deep in the well for me at the moment.

candie's affections not a million miles away from those of dougie imo. my bold / incredibly stupid prediction: candie is inhabited by laura palmer, who's had a little more time to spend adapting to the normal world than cooper has

wins:

TP fans: a character impregnating someone in a coma is a step too far even for this show

25 years ago it depicted (first through suggestion then through filmed scenes) a father repeatedly raping and then killing his daughter. the likelihood that bad cooper fathered richard through rape feels well within the vibe of the show to me.

dowd:

It felt a bit more like this was about violence against women, rather than being exploitative

otm, it's women in trouble. apart from candie (who is apparently not the empty vessel she appears to be), imo every woman who was attacked in part 10 was a sympathetic portrayal, not an opportunistic one.

breaking this off into a separate post:

I find some of Lynch's monsters more sophisticated and chilling in their conception than others, and therefore even when their actions are extremely disturbing I feel like I'm not just watching cheap pulp exploitation. Richard and Ike the Spike to me are more in line with the dumb brute, gross-out psychos like the hit men in Wild at Heart, and not necessarily what some people who prefer Twin Peaks to Lynch's other work had been waiting for.

― Chris L, Tuesday, 18 July 2017 05:18 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

there seem to be two distinct categories of bad guys in this show:

• high status: bad cooper/BOB
• low status: richard, chad, ike, mr todd &c.

as far as i can tell, bad cooper/BOB is the only solidly high-status bad guy. he kills and attacks people without so much as blinking (in a lot of his scenes he's almost completely still), and everyone is deferential to him. this sets him well apart from even the worst bad guys in other subplots, and imo makes him the most terrifying. (red might also fall into the high-status category, not sure yet though.)

i'm mentioning all this because low-status characters are usually undone by the qualities which make them low-status, but the high-status bad guys are usually the ones who last until the end and are present for the big showdown. we can guess bad cooper/BOB will be in act 3, sure, but we can also assume the other bad guys will fuck up in various ways and not be in control of the final scenes.

Just saw this, still digesting, love reading all your comments yet nothing to add to it. Except that I'm amazed that no-one has mentioned Johnny Jewel's 'Windswept' album, that came out in May this year. 'Slow Dreams' was on tonight's episode, Chromatics were on it already earlier. The album was announced on forehand as an album with 'Twin Peaks' music on it. And listen to it now: 'Slow Dreams', 'Television Snow', 'Saturday - Desire'.. well the whole album oozes Twin Peaks, uncanilly so (it's on spotify). In any case this seems way more significant than fucking moby.

http://media.pitchfork.com/photos/592f565b14bc83430bf25918/master/pass/file

yeah it's a great compilation.

important update: watched last night's episode eating jalapeño creamed corn

Audrey has to make an appearance in next episode right? I mean she has to, regardless of her possible offspring right? The atomic bomb (literally and figuratively) dropped in episode eight was followed by two very (for TP) straight forward 'show and tell' episodes. Time for the next mind fucking reshuffle. For those crazy bugs to re-appear, looming in the shadows of the woodsmen. And for Audrey to finally enter the stage. Right?

xp whoa

the trick to enjoying twin peaks: the return is to never hope for anything

i demand an atomic bomb every two episodes sorry

that's what the janey-e and dougie scene was imo

expectation is a prison, etc

I feel like that was one of the horniest scenes in film history

my bold / incredibly stupid prediction: candie is inhabited by laura palmer, who's had a little more time to spend adapting to the normal world than cooper has

I'm pretty stupid when it comes to this show so I'm on board with this.

I felt well chuffed when Dougie's blood pressure was the same as mine was last checkup and the doctor said it was very good

also I am completely weirded
out by them casting the doctor from Star Trek: Enterprise as the doctor

my bold / incredibly stupid prediction: candie is inhabited by laura palmer, who's had a little more time to spend adapting to the normal world than cooper has

I'm pretty stupid when it comes to this show so I'm on board with this.

― sciatica, Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:37 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I'm totally down with that.

re: Cole's doodle; Is "'the arm' reaching for the Hornes" a bit too straightforward for lynchian symbolism/

There will be a sneak peek of the next episode at ComicCon this Friday. I would guess that all the cast members on panel earlier that day will feature in that ep (unless they just figured nerd demand for Don Murray is high), but who knows.

This is huge! #TwinPeaks #SDCC2017 pic.twitter.com/WZ7cpOLU7n

— Twin Peaks (@TwinPeaksArchve) July 6, 2017

re: Cole's doodle; Is "'the arm' reaching for the Hornes" a bit too straightforward for lynchian symbolism/

― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Tuesday, 18 July 2017 11:18 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i saw something about it being a buck and the hand stopping the buck here (truman reference). sounds like a massive reach tbh.

candie's affections not a million miles away from those of dougie imo. my bold / incredibly stupid prediction: candie is inhabited by laura palmer, who's had a little more time to spend adapting to the normal world than cooper has

I don't agree with the Laura Palmer aspect of this but I agree that Candie is a Dougie-like entity who has come back from the Lodge.

Take back negative things I said about that character.

I think Candie is just kind of distracted

Thrilled to hear Penderecki

agree with mh - Candie is just distracted. She's very much a spacy character

I might be in the minority but I love Richard Horne. He's unhinged and wild, and believably so. Also, he had got a FACE. It's impossible not to look at him.

The performance and look are great, the character is appealing and a disgusting villain

My wife says that he's perfectly cast in this, but it's hard to imagine him cast him in anything else, and also described him as handsome but alien. OTM on both counts

(Also I hate saying "my wife" but I don't know how else to do it)

https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0024/11/1431993239064.jpg, iirc.

test

^ it's a clue!

Richard's great. Steve sucks though

My podner

Richard really reminds me of a more twisted Robert Pattinson

Agree that the violence felt more pointed and purposeful in this than previous hours*, also that it was way more consistent than this show normally likes to be outside of part 8. I'm not surprised people are split on it given the content but I am surprised at the number of people who are just ambivalent about it or think it's filler. I think the previous ep was way more of a "moving the pieces into place" episode than this one (although I think the expository nature of both is being way overstated)

*btw it makes sense to refer to one of these as "an hour of television" for simplicity's sake and I think so far 1 part actually does clock in at 60 minutes but if the average running time is 55 minutes then we need to stop calling it an "18-hour film", it's an 18-part film that'll end up being about 16.5 hours long

and if they remove all the indiepop it'll be 11.5 hours long

That would be a terrible thing to do, this has exactly the right amount of music in it. Speaking of which, does the vegas setting have the most old-school twin peaks music cues, more than the town itself? The jazzy drums have been used there since the very first establishing shot, we had deer meadow shuffle last week, this week the Mitchum bros had that ominous cue I associate with ben horne

two miriams is probably just a goof but it would be classic chad if he picked out the wrong letter

My wife says that he's perfectly cast in this, but it's hard to imagine him cast him in anything else, and also described him as handsome but alien. OTM on both counts

― Karl Malone, dinsdag 18 juli 2017 3:52 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Your wife otm. He reminds me of (a young) Christopher Walken, handsome but alien.

Is he Irish?

australian

http://s3.birthmoviesdeath.com/images/made/Twin-Peaks-Covers-2_1200_1599_81_s.jpg

SHerilyn Fenn did a great amount of promo work for someone that wouldn't be in it for three months.

otm, and that whole cover is a massive red herring

a reminder that we've still only had that one shot of James lol

since his motorcycle accent he doesn't act talk any more

the fact that Bobby's gotten a bunch to do in comparison is extremely vindicating

Lynch and Frost are fucking with us and James is going to be in a band playing at the roadhouse

James Marshall will play all roles for the remaining episodes.

I think someone might have mentioned here before how kind of unflattering those EW photos were.

I'm imagining an interviewer asking a smiling Lynch when we can expect to see Audrey, and Lynch's smile kinda falters for a moment and his eyes kinda drift to the middle distance as he thinks, oh shit oh shit oh shit, did I cut all of Sherilynn's scenes?, surely I remembered to leave at least one in, oh shit oh shit, what have I done...

"I think someone might have mentioned here before how kind of unflattering those EW photos were."

they're just realistic. I quite like the fact the both Sheryl Lee and Sherilyn Fenn have not had shitloads of plastic surgery. Madchen Amick obv looks amazing and hot but she's also had a fair amount of work done. Of note sadly is that she's also the only one who has had a steadily rising career since TP.

she's also a bit younger than Lee and Fenn tbf

Peggy Lipton is however a freak of nature

It's not the best photo but everyone looks great in it?

these damn actors and their good looks!!

how the hell Harry Dean Stanton has seemed to have aged insanely gradually and is over 90 years old is a mystery, though

I was kinda amazed at how good his voice sounded in the last ep (maybe my favorite moment of the whole ep). It is just insane that a 94 yo man can still do that with his voice, Ralph Stanley is the only point of comparison I can think of

The secret is cigarettes

(He's only 91 tho)

I am going to pedantically say he is 91, but once you get to that age, I am not sure the difference matters

lol yes

my grandfather died early this year at 92 and it's amazing the difference

grandpa should have kept smoking

You guys, Herman Cain has been posting TP screenshots and stuff all over his Twitter and web site.

yes he is insane

Get ready for Herman Cain/Michael J. Anderson 2020.

that's gotta be an intern's doing

the fucks are at it again

Too lazy to search for the fwwm thread but it's getting a criterion release. I won't be buying it as I don't need a third copy of that film, but I'm glad to see it because it's final proof that its critical turnaround is complete and also because it means that more people will be able to see the missing pieces and between two worlds without having to buy a whole twin peaks bluray set

Also, that blu-ray set apparently just went out of print; all the more reason for them to release it.

Too lazy to search for the fwwm thread but it's getting a criterion release. I won't be buying it as I don't need a third copy of that film, but I'm glad to see it because it's final proof that its critical turnaround is complete and also because it means that more people will be able to see the missing pieces and between two worlds without having to buy a whole twin peaks bluray set

― blog haus aka the scene raver (wins), Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:09 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah personally i'm thrilled, i never pulled the trigger on the box

I own the Hong Kong bootleg of the pilot, the original 1st season DVD without the pilot (but with commentaries and beautiful menu screens), the 2nd season DVD, the 30 ep gold set, and the original FWWM DVD without the Missing Pieces, so yes, this is great news.

Never felt I needed to own a network series from 1990 on blu ray, as beautiful as it looks compared to most other series of the time. Maybe that's a wrong assumption.

And I still have the terrible looking VHS set too.

I can confirm that it looks gorgeous on bluray. Not really comparable to how other series from that era would probably look in HD, imo.

yeah the HD transfer is good. I stole it from the internet but it looks great.

I realized this morning in the shower what I'm sure has already been mentioned throughout parts of the internet that I don't frequent: Cole's drawing almost certainly references Buckhorn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmI5iG0qakU

:)

anyone have a gif of Cole's drawing?

Someone animated it

What shall we call Cole's deer doodle?

Animation by @scrub_lover. #TwinPeaks pic.twitter.com/qSvW8ws5gI

— Twin Peaks ✉️ (@ThatsOurWaldo) July 18, 2017

Interesting, although I didn't think of that castle as the White Lodge. Seems like it would just as shitty to be there as the Black Lodge.

Uh-oh. Anyone else notice that Richard Horne is driving a beat up...Saturn in Part 10? #TwinPeaks https://t.co/Pc6KR8EnrV

— Twin Peaks (@TwinPeaksArchve) July 19, 2017

Thinking about Moby's appearance again, probably a lot of people don't know that his first (major?) single was built upon "Laura Palmer's Theme":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Qwo8sT9U0

I've been making horrible jokes about that on facebook this whole season. Stopping now that he's appeared.

I would say almost every person on this thread knows that at least

having never knowingly listened to Moby before I was mercifully ignorant of it

The "twin peaks archive" twitter account is tweeting out some interesting rumours atm (very spoilery if at all true - stuff I'd rather not know about for sure, but I can't unsee it)

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/theories/lynch-frost-productions-secret-message/

Episode 7 Easter egg related to the airplane windows

Lol @ that nonsense

"drink your garmonbozia"

Two songs that sync beautifully:

laura palmer's theme with damn, i wish i was your lover...it's that opening synth

http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/theories/lynch-frost-productions-secret-message/

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT9NvsTyTF5NLzWy0U/giphy.gif

Notice how the spaces within the letters R and O in “Frost,” and the P, R, O, D, and O in “productions” are sometimes filled with white, similar to the masking of the airplane windows.

Here’s a quick transcription of the pattern in the Lynch/Frost Productions outro:

O, PR, O, ROO, O, PRO, R, D, R, OD, PR, PRO, PRO, RO, PROD, D, R, ROD, O, PR, RO, ROO, PR, O, RO, RO, D, PR, PR, RO, PROD, D, O

UPDATE: Seven letters are used, so we can also sequence it like this:

0100000, 0011000, 0100000, 1100001, 0100000, 0011100, 10000000, 0000010, 1000000, and so on…

nope

What if you run it backwards

Dorp dorp dorp

Just finally got to this week's episode. Do I have a hearing problem or did the Mitchum brothers decide to arrange a meeting with "that Brando guy"???

i think he says, "now i know how brando felt"

Here are the results of an audience poll asking who killed Laura Palmer pic.twitter.com/QxAGaEdw2J

— Evan Kindley (@evankindley) July 20, 2017

Suicide!! That's talent!

Still alive...

(MOTORCYCLIST)

He prefers 'motorcycle enthusiast'.

I've been trying to dig up contemporaneous newspaper and magazine articles about OG TP online. I was rather impressed (since most people seemed completely in the dark) by one newspaper article I found where the writer laid out the case for Leland as the killer in much the same way that Cooper did some time before the truth was finally revealed.

I don't think "Still alive" is so crazy - I could see being suspicious about the "identical twin cousin", and hey that's what happens in the movie "Laura"...

The thing about 1990 twin peaks is you can go back and laugh at the insanely dumb usenet theories and garbage contemporaneous takes bit now we are living through it

*but

My trawl through old TP-related articles has been a little disappointing inasmuch as I've been looking for takes that were completely clueless and wildly off the mark but haven't found many. Although I did find an article from a college paper that suggested to readers who were looking for other challenging shows of high quality that they should check out Head of the Class.

that was a typo, it was supposed to say Parker Lewis Can't Lose

https://instagram.com/p/BWwc9w4hfJJ/

Ha. While I don't think there's clues in there, Twin Peaks surely must have a special social media crew right? To coordinate the clues being sent out, maybe even infiltrating in fan forums or whatever? There must be a lot of wacky theories out there to make them laugh. But, I can also imagine a scenario where a big clue/easter egg they carefully crsfted into an episode does not get noticed, so someone of the show will put it out there on a forum or twitter incognito, right?

nah

't Was an honest question, but I'll gladly believe you.

It's just that part of Lynch's schtick is resisting interpretation, so I can't really see him being okay with promoting any specific angle in public

Yeah that's probably true.

Coordinating social media usage by cast members probably not even necessary when most of them don't even know themselves where the fuck this is going

haha yes.

tbh this is also why I find some of the "look at THIS hidden clue! What does it MEAN?!" sort of stuff ridiculous, these kinds of takes seem to ignore Lynch's general M.O., which has never really involved burying "hidden" clues using complex cryptographic methods. He trafficks in imagery and synchronicities and parallels and encourages drawing connections that work on this kind of dream-logic level, but he is not Vince Gilligan, his stuff is generally not designed like some mechanistic, clockwork puzzle that buries easter eggs to reward the obsessive viewer (a good ex. here is the acrostic Gus Fring clue in the show titles of a recent season of Breaking Bad - Lynch would never do that shit)

You know who would, though?

I feel like the closest he's come to that is the Bad Cooper "yrev"/fingerprint thing but even that (associating a reversed word in a ten word phrase with a reversed fingerprint) comes across like a leap of intuition from Gordon rather than some more straightforward Sherlock Holmes sort of sleuthing.

xp