A Christmas Carol - Scrooge is an S.O.B. but the moral of the story is he gets bullied into loving Christmas and being someone he isn't due to psychological torture
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:50 (six years ago) link
Run Fat Boy Run - Simon Pegg is painted as the 'good guy' and Hank Azaria the prickly 'new boyfriend', but Hank's only crime is being a decent human being, whereas Simon left his fiancee at the altar and continued to be a disappointing jackass. his redemption is..finishing a race? fuck him.
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
oh man I feel like I have like twelve of these but can't think of any right now
― Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:55 (six years ago) link
I guess all the Death Wishes probably count
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 13:59 (six years ago) link
A Christmas Carol very clearly tells us that Scrooge didn't used to be a Scrooge and the ghosts recall himself to his original self.
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:04 (six years ago) link
Harry Potter is a right smug dick tho.
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (six years ago) link
I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:05 (six years ago) link
Saruman offered the only credible opposition to Sauron and the Fellowship dudes just got lucky
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (six years ago) link
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:09 (six years ago) link
yeah i prolly need to change it
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:10 (six years ago) link
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:06 (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Something something new labour
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (six years ago) link
Most heroes in movies are awful people tbf is that the premise
Valerian was one of these, for me.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:12 (six years ago) link
Robin Hood trustafarian rabblerousing slacking wanker
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:13 (six years ago) link
arguably the protagonist of ACC is "the spirit of Christmas" and Scrooge is the antagonist
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:17 (six years ago) link
Se7en is the story of how Morgan Freeman's character overcomes his loss of faith in the world thru the cautionary tale of his chucklehead partner
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:18 (six years ago) link
the Alien saga is the ongoing story of a noble race trying to undo the mistake they made by creating the stupidest sentient creatures that ever existed
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:21 (six years ago) link
I've said this before, but I'm convinced all Trump voters would agree Biff is the hero of the Back to the Future series. Is that the kind of thing the thread is getting at? Perhaps not thoughtful enough.
― Evan, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:27 (six years ago) link
what I really meant (and didn't word well) was movies where you disagree w/ who the good guys are. ie, the movie frames someone as the person to root for and it's like they're depicted as a pretty terrible person
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (six years ago) link
so yours fits
I've seen people say Daniel is the bad guy in Karate Kid but I don't see it
this thread would work better imo as actual serious disagreements w the screenwriters about the moral scales of the script, rather than "lol what if the villains are the heroes" gags. (tho i have loved those, as in "Must Love Jaws." ). but yeah sort of the film equivalent of Songs where the singer/protagonist comes off as a serious dick without meaning to
― Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:30 (six years ago) link
death of the author etc etc this thread can be taken there if participants desire....:)
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (six years ago) link
Where is banaka I'm sure it will have thoughts on manys the sf tale
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:35 (six years ago) link
ferris bueller's day off. cameron is just a depressed kid trying to stay home sick and his sociopath friend bullies him into taking his dad's extremely expensive car to joyride and otherwise commit crimez around chicago.
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (six years ago) link
yep
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:36 (six years ago) link
a lot of SF movies involve incurious fascist humans trying to wipe out "alien" creatures that are simply trying to survive, or apex preds that are just apex predding. a lot of Fantasy stuff is just straight racist obv.
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:37 (six years ago) link
gilmore girls is a harrowing journey into the inextricable psychological hold one hateful young woman has over an entire town
― imago, Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:38 (six years ago) link
Jerry maguire is a total cunt, just this childish whiny self-pitting midlife crisis dude who shows up drunk at his only employee's house to sexually harass her and swear at her kidKind of an odd case because the film acknowledges this & has several characters call him on it, but it also seems to want us to see the sister who warns Renee Zellweger away from the guy as some kind of evil man-hating bitch, even tho she's clearly right
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:40 (six years ago) link
A friend of mine has always claimed Eddie Dane is the hero (or at least the moral center) of Miller's Crossing, and watching it the other night I kinda agree. He's the only character who never lies to anybody or does anything he said he wouldn't do; everyone turns on him and betrays him, from Mink to Caspar.
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:47 (six years ago) link
Pilate is the hero of Passion of the Christ
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:48 (six years ago) link
Ferris Bueller needs to be called out as a wrong entry
There is simply no way the screenwriters didn't know he was a cunt
It's the born in the USA of movies
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:53 (six years ago) link
broseph, john hughes wrote that shit. it's a wish fulfillment for him.
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:55 (six years ago) link
Otm I've never watched fb & thought we were "meant" to find him likeable xp
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 14:56 (six years ago) link
movie sells him HARD as a quirky charmer with good life lessons to distribute. only thing that even sort of saves it is him realizing his actual role here is to try and help out his sad sack friend, even if the way he goes about this is pretty much unthinking and dopey.feel like a ton of romance movies, esp. about guys that "charmingly" don't give up after that first "no" would fit the bill here.also in burton's batman, my friend david uzumeri has made the case that the reporter dude friend of vicki vale's is treated as a comic relief/plot complication side story despite being a far more sympathetic protagonist than michael keaton - he's a regular joe putting together the clues of a theory nobody believes in!
― Newb Sybok (Doctor Casino), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:12 (six years ago) link
I've always given John Hughes the benefit of the doubt that he hated every single one of his characters and felt nothing but contempt for the audience his movies found
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:17 (six years ago) link
that is v charitable of you
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:18 (six years ago) link
A reasonable theory - he did get his start at National Lampoon after all.
― grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:19 (six years ago) link
Bilbo Baggins is a fat comfortable home counties middle englander who made his money as a hired mercenary in a war of conquest and if his wet nephew felt vaguely guilty about any of it I hardly think a token faux-native jewel sacrifice ceremony covers it
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:21 (six years ago) link
xps I don't really but Bueller seems so extreme that I have to think somebody somewhere used it an experiment in how far they could push things
I don't understand the thread premise. Is it that Scrooge isn't the protagonist of acc (he is, that's just a fact) or that you disagree with the film about "who Scrooge is" ie what sort of person he is (he's a Scrooge)― Bitcoin Baja (wins)
thread title s/b movies where you disagree with the moral of the story maybe― Bitcoin Baja (wins)
Yeah, this also confused me. I thought it meant "the protagonist is another character" not "the protagonist is meant to be great but is actually a dick".
― emil.y, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:27 (six years ago) link
Both decent thread ideas
But I think that we probably already do the latter in individual threads for most movies ever tbf
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:32 (six years ago) link
I just rewatched Fight Club for the first time in ages. Ugh, no wonder this movie is huge in Russia and with the alt-right.
― Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
I'm trying to work out this Scrooge thing. (I'm most of the way through the original Dickens atm.) If you can accept the premise that ghosts and spirits exist in the way that they do in this book/film, I'm not sure it's fair to say that what they do to Scrooge is bullying. All that the Ghosts of Christmas Past and Present really do is i) remind him of his own memories and ii) expose him to other people's experiences. There might be a point about the Christmas Future ghost idk? (And if Scrooge is an allegory for the Victorian upper class, pleading to his conscience is probably nicer than a lot of other approaches to social change, which the Ghost of Christmas Present reminds him of.)
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
A golden retriever can't be allowed in a basketball league, that's absurd.
― jmm, Sunday, 31 December 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
It's definitely bullying in the scrooged version of acc
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
The hero of Goodfellas is Henry’s father, who beats the shit out of him for dealing with the Mafia. If only Henry had just listened to his dad he would’ve turned out fine.
― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:05 (six years ago) link
yeah I'm not going to call someone a hero for beating their kid
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
and he reacted by getting deeper into it, BIG SHOCKAH
Jerry Maguire one of the most awful inexplicably popular films I ever saw tbh. Boring as shit and hated everyone in it
― Colonel Poo, Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:09 (six years ago) link
still never seen it and something tells me I'm better off.
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
It's a real slog tbh, you think at first it's gonna be dumb fun (show me the money!) but it's really tedious & like 6hr long
― Bitcoin Baja (wins), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:13 (six years ago) link
The bit where he beats zellwegers kid is pretty good tbf
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:16 (six years ago) link
Carol Kane kicking him in the balls would count, I agree.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:19 (six years ago) link
This took a bit of thinking bc main characters (excluding minor/side/supporting characters here) tend to be more complex than purely good or badBut maybe conrad from ordinary people. We’re to assume he is the good guy and mary tyler moore’s character is purely evil, which she is, but conrad comes off as very self centred? Still sounds a bit off though Not a movie but maybe timothy treadwell in grizzly bear only bc herzog seems dumb enough to think he is actually a good guy?I guess I’m not ready to assume the screenwriters’ and/or directors’ intention of creating one-sided main characters
― infinity (∞), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:20 (six years ago) link
Sixth sense is about a cursed kid whose house is invaded by a dumb white man needing redemption.
― rb (soda), Sunday, 31 December 2017 16:21 (six years ago) link
How did we get this far without anyone bringing up Reality Bites?
― Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 17:22 (six years ago) link
never seent it, though I remember the soundtrack well
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 17:29 (six years ago) link
The lead in the Trolls movie is a major asshole
― Chuck_Tatum, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:21 (six years ago) link
was it Momus
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
CHRISTMAS CAROL WAS A BOOK.
― pplains, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:24 (six years ago) link
I mean, I know most movies were books first, but some movies are STILL BOOKS FIRST.
― pplains, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:25 (six years ago) link
Reminds me that one of my terrible thread ideas was a poll of tv shows adapting A Christmas Carol and It's a Wonderful Life for their own purposes.
I feel like the Simon & Simon episode where one Simon imagines what would have happened if he'd never been born and the other Simon drowns in a river because he wasn't there to save him is still peak pre-golden era TV, vv dramatic.
― omar little, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:29 (six years ago) link
Always liked the Married...With Children where Al learns that his family would have been much happier if he'd never been born, so he comes back out of spite
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
in the disney continuity, scrooge mcduck is still a stingy guy -- i thought he was supposed to be reformed?
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, 31 December 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
HIGH FIDELITY
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:15 (six years ago) link
Ah cmon he's totally an asshole
― remember the lmao (darraghmac), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:19 (six years ago) link
Pretty much after this year, most past movies have terrible good guy protagonists. Every 80s movie ever.
― Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:21 (six years ago) link
xxp
file under americans dabble in british humour
― infinity (∞), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:22 (six years ago) link
not sure Nick Hornby is intentionally humorous
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:24 (six years ago) link
Indiana Jones is basically everything the bad guys describe him as, and a cantankerous git to boot
― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
Not a movie but maybe timothy treadwell in grizzly bear only bc herzog seems dumb enough to think he is actually a good guy?
― circa1916, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
High Fidelity the movie is very aware that the protagonist is a cock. The book far less so.
― shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:53 (six years ago) link
The movie takes its time during moments where he's brushing women off or treating them callously to linger on their reaction for an extra beat. Key shot is probably when he says goodbye to Lili Taylor and merrily monologues away while she stands by the door clearly breaking down a bit but he completely ignores it.
― omar little, Sunday, 31 December 2017 20:56 (six years ago) link
Mrs. Robinson is the hero of The Graduate
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
^^Reminds me of this bit from Barcelona:
Fred: You think wedding vows are going to change everything? God, your naivete is astounding! Didn't you see "The Graduate"?Ted: You can remember "The Graduate"?Fred: Yeah, I can remember a few things. Apparently you don't. The end? Katharine Ross has just married this really cool guy - tall, blond, incredibly popular, the make-out king of his fraternity in Berkeley - when this obnoxious Dustin Hoffman character shows up at the back of the church, acting like a total asshole. "Elaine! Elaine!" Does Katharine Ross tell Dustin Hoffman, "Get lost, creep. I'm a married woman"? No. She runs off with him - on a bus. That is the reality.
Ted: You can remember "The Graduate"?
Fred: Yeah, I can remember a few things. Apparently you don't. The end? Katharine Ross has just married this really cool guy - tall, blond, incredibly popular, the make-out king of his fraternity in Berkeley - when this obnoxious Dustin Hoffman character shows up at the back of the church, acting like a total asshole. "Elaine! Elaine!" Does Katharine Ross tell Dustin Hoffman, "Get lost, creep. I'm a married woman"? No. She runs off with him - on a bus. That is the reality.
― Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
I think it's a rite of passage when you're rescreening Fast Times At Ridgemont High, and you go from identifying with one of the kids to identifying with Mr. Hand.
― Never Learn To Mike Love (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:16 (six years ago) link
Lots of 80s movies want you to root for someone who totally doesn't deserve rooting for, obv. Ferris only one of a thousand.
I've always felt this way about Reality Bites - not so much that it needed to be told from a different (Stillerian) perspective, just that it worked hard to lionize bad people.
True challops is: I felt the exact same way about Frances Ha.
Also about Harold and Maude. Gah.
Some terrible movie people are not terrible in the ostensibly-cute-terrible-people way like Rushmore or N. Dynamite or whatever.
― sympathy for the tasmanian devil (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:21 (six years ago) link
Colossus is the hero of The Forbin Project
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:26 (six years ago) link
OK, Paddington Bear's turn...
― Mark G, Sunday, 31 December 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
Revenge of the Nerds, Zapped!, Farmer Ted in 16 Candles, Blaine in Pretty in Pink, Can't Buy Me Love...
― Yerac, Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:00 (six years ago) link
The whole point of the book seemed to be his realization of his dickishness, I thought? How else could you read the meeting with Penny?
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
Revenge of the Nerds
Yeah rape and spycams are HILARE
― sympathy for the tasmanian devil (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 31 December 2017 22:46 (six years ago) link
Are horror and especially giant monster movies too obvious for this?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 1 January 2018 22:47 (six years ago) link
Cliff Curtis' character from Live Free Or Die Hard needs his own franchise.
― Wes Brodicus, Monday, 1 January 2018 23:16 (six years ago) link
― Philip Nunez, Sunday, December 31, 2017 6:39 PM (yesterday)
scrooge mcduck isn't supposed to be the same character as ebenezer scrooge, he's got a whole epic backstory about earning his money from striking gold in the klondike, etc etc, plus he seems to know the origin story of every coin in his money bin so that's why he's so attached to it all
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 1 January 2018 23:22 (six years ago) link
also the junior woodchuck patrol v frequently show him the bounds of his narcissism and venality, he just resets every time(nb I have no idea about "Disney continuity," only stories by his creator)The whole point of the book seemed to be his realization of his dickishness, I thought? How else could you read the meeting with Penny?I said less so, not "not at all"! It's been decades but Hornby seemed to find his protagonist far more adorable than Cusack, Pink and DeVincentis (though it could be argued that theirs was more charming)
― Haribo Hancock (sic), Tuesday, 2 January 2018 00:12 (six years ago) link
Omar, you gotta start that thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaBDE_8DLag
― pplains, Tuesday, 2 January 2018 00:52 (six years ago) link
Chasing Amy
― flappy bird, Sunday, 22 July 2018 06:57 (five years ago) link
What's a Nubian?
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 22 July 2018 10:55 (five years ago) link
Surprised that Simon Pegg’s within the first few replies but that no-one has mentioned How To Lose Friends And Alienate People.
― Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 22 July 2018 10:57 (five years ago) link
If it ended with the TY based SP scrote-agonist getting slowly eaten by a Komodo dragon I'd have watched that!
― calzino, Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:06 (five years ago) link
The Incredilbes is a parable about a revolutionary who wants to redistribute from the powerful to the powerless, and the arrogant aristocrats fighting to keep their elevated status. I hate that film.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:14 (five years ago) link
any movie where someone has to lower themselves briefly into the horror of normal working life before they realise they are superspecial above it and succeed
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:31 (five years ago) link
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal)
Try watching Cobra Kai.
― oder doch?, Sunday, 22 July 2018 11:40 (five years ago) link
― Centipedes? In this economy? (wins), Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:33 (five years ago) link
incredibles prompted it but like this is every movie tbh
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:44 (five years ago) link
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71Y%2BT2wdGWL._SL1126_.jpg
― mark s, Sunday, 22 July 2018 12:45 (five years ago) link
Jack Black deserves severe sanctions and probably some jail time at the conclusion of School of Rock. The more interesting character arc belongs to Joan Cusack’s principal although she definitely should lose her job.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 July 2018 15:50 (five years ago) link
Haha yes otm
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:00 (five years ago) link
Lol
― Isora Clubland (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:22 (five years ago) link
as a teacher I agree 100 pct
― 21st savagery fox (m bison), Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:23 (five years ago) link
Yeah agree on School of Rock. I was part of a live read of the script last year and we all were like “...let’s change some lines”
― flappy bird, Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:29 (five years ago) link
Listening to 2112 for homework = quality education.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:45 (five years ago) link
flappy which role did you take?
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 July 2018 16:58 (five years ago) link
I was given the role of the obnoxious drummer kid. it was fun
― flappy bird, Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:12 (five years ago) link
I assume there has been a court case and a suspended sentence between the concert and the end credits in School Of Rock
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Sunday, 22 July 2018 19:54 (five years ago) link
And the judge is some kind of indiscriminate fan of both Rush AND Led Zep? Not likely
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 July 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
yeah good luck finding an older white man who loves those bands
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 22 July 2018 22:15 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHVjs4aobqs
― Isora Clubland (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 22 July 2018 22:51 (five years ago) link
I found Ferris Bueller more insufferable than anyone else in the film
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 00:57 (five years ago) link
Lost in Translation
― louise ck (milo z), Monday, 23 July 2018 01:13 (five years ago) link
ScarJo's husband wasn't a bad guy, he was just trying to work. That's why you're in Tokyo to start with!
― louise ck (milo z), Monday, 23 July 2018 01:14 (five years ago) link
viewing humperdinck, count rugen and vizzini as the 'good guys' of princess bride is up there with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92yHyxeju1U
― This is a total Jeff Porcaro. (Doctor Casino), Monday, 23 July 2018 01:15 (five years ago) link
There was nothing particularly likeabke or sympathetic about the lead characters in Lost in Translation. Being a bored spouse who moved somewhere for their partner’s high paying job is v 1% problems.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 03:06 (five years ago) link
uh
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 03:11 (five years ago) link
Ok I barely remember the plot of that movie so if that’s not a totally accurate rendering for some reason w/e. It was boring.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 03:13 (five years ago) link
It was a long time ago that I saw it but were we supposed to think that Charlotte's husband was a bad guy or even that she was especially 'good'? I didn't really see it that way.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 23 July 2018 03:24 (five years ago) link
he wasn't outwardly dickish but he was thoughtless and selfish iirc
― call all destroyer, Monday, 23 July 2018 03:25 (five years ago) link
I somehow have never seen Lost in Translation. I remember it coming out, and don't know why I never saw it, 2003 was right when I started going to art houses, it must've passed thru here in a couple of weeks. I remember it came out in August. I've had a copy of it for 2 years, I should watch it this week.
― flappy bird, Monday, 23 July 2018 04:49 (five years ago) link
So little is made of the husband that I think that all the romantic confusion is from whitin Charlotte.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 23 July 2018 04:57 (five years ago) link
Also the shark in Jaws is mostly minding its own business.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 23 July 2018 05:01 (five years ago) link
spielberg's war of the worlds, where an emasculated tom cruise proves his manhood and parenting skills by killing a half-crazy person.
i'm not saying the aliens were the good guys. but it was aliens.
― adam the (abanana), Monday, 23 July 2018 05:11 (five years ago) link
i mean given the situation...
i know he's a failing / deadbeat dad in the beginning but still. end of the world, rules don't apply
― flappy bird, Monday, 23 July 2018 05:25 (five years ago) link
speaking of aliens, the bugs in starship troopers are good not bad
― mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 13:01 (five years ago) link
the screenwriter is 100% of that view!
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 13:03 (five years ago) link
The Thing, as well. Who among us hasn't impersonated Wilfred Brimley in a simple effort to escape the planet earth?
― Hi My father very Rusted Root with me what can I do? (Old Lunch), Monday, 23 July 2018 13:07 (five years ago) link
iirc in pirates of the Caribbean the pirates’ dastardly plan is to... give Orlando bloom a tiny cut on his palm and then immediately die. That doesn’t seem so bad tbh? Kinda cunty of depp et al to put so much effort into preventing that
― Centipedes? In this economy? (wins), Monday, 23 July 2018 13:28 (five years ago) link
i think there was consequences for eg knightley as well as bloom but i mean whod weep for a pair of mannequins like em throw in harry potter and youd have done 2003-present cinema a real fuckin favour
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 13:30 (five years ago) link
hero of potc ii and iii is davy jones this is canon
― mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 13:34 (five years ago) link
the character known as maverick in top gun is in fact a dangerous maverick
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 13:39 (five years ago) link
I have vague memories of having to sit through The Beach in the cinema, with a group for someone's birthday. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I remember it, Leonardo DiCaprio's protagonist character is a terrible guy who cheats on his loved ones, disrupts the status quo not necessarily (intended) in a good way, goes on a drug trip, then offers some holier-than-thou moralising words in the end.
― Valentijn, Monday, 23 July 2018 13:55 (five years ago) link
also rentons curve in trainspotting
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 14:04 (five years ago) link
Almost everyone in Love Actually is pretty horrible; same goes for most Hugh Granty movies like 4 Weddings etc.
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 14:47 (five years ago) link
this is because richard curtis is a fucking monster iirc
― a Stupendous Leg of Granite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 July 2018 15:08 (five years ago) link
I feel the format of the thread demands that you have to indicate who you think the good guys are, and whether they’re played by Bill Nighy.
― Andrew Farrell, Monday, 23 July 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
yes this is key
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 15:21 (five years ago) link
the guy from gattaca who is going to die on his space mission and ruin everything
― adam the (abanana), Monday, 23 July 2018 15:22 (five years ago) link
The good guy in Red Dawn = the gun registration forms
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 15:24 (five years ago) link
the good guy in red dawn is the soviet commander iirc
― a Stupendous Leg of Granite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 23 July 2018 15:25 (five years ago) link
not to be 'hans gruber was right' but hearing the story how the director tricked alan rickman into his death plummet reaction, i feel like the real diabolical villain of die hard was john mctiernan
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 23 July 2018 16:07 (five years ago) link
the real villain is the cop who finally regains his confidence enough to shoot people
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 July 2018 16:10 (five years ago) link
(also fuck that movie)
Was still reassigned later to the Urkel district
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 16:17 (five years ago) link
― Van Horn Street, Monday, July 23, 2018 12:01 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the mayor is definitely the real villain in jaws
― ant banks and wasp (voodoo chili), Monday, 23 July 2018 16:25 (five years ago) link
Starship Troopers and Kiss Me Deadly are more “screenwriter has different ideas about who the bad guys are than the author of the book they’re adapting.”
― JoeStork, Monday, 23 July 2018 16:32 (five years ago) link
feel like a lot of anti-ferris takes don't acknowledge that there's a lot of pathos in that movie due to the heavily implied sense that ferris's life post-high school is gonna be pretty bleak, and that we're witnessing the last happy period of his life.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 18:23 (five years ago) link
or that a lot of his "acting out" is due to his own dawning sense of that future.
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, July 23, 2018 7:04 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
renton isn't meant to be a "good guy" in trainspotting. he's less bad than sick boy and begbie, worse than spud.
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:29 (five years ago) link
Cameron’s got it worse. Another nom for thread: Duckie and/or Harry Dean Stanton are the true heroes of Pretty in Pink. Molly Ringwald is just teening dopily along. Apparently the original ending had Duckie and Andie ending up together, but that’s not necessary. Duckie learns the real lesson ( and it’s the OMD song).
― rb (soda), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:33 (five years ago) link
duckie is an asshole though. in love with his best friend, doesn't tell her how he feels, acts all jealous and shitty when she is interested in another guy
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:36 (five years ago) link
― Valentijn, Monday, July 23, 2018 6:55 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i watched the beach a few years ago and... yeah it's all kinda hazy, though i think the script is aware that leo's character is a dick and the perfect society he found wasn't so perfect
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:37 (five years ago) link
trying to reconstruct the beach from memory reminded me of into the wild, the movie adaptation of which was trying desperately to convince me that the main character wasn't insufferable
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:39 (five years ago) link
It's been aaaaages since I read it (or saw the movie, tbh) but iirc Spud was more the protagonist of the Trainspotting novel than Renton was.
― Hi My father very Rusted Root with me what can I do? (Old Lunch), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:41 (five years ago) link
Huh. I don't get that at all. Je suis Ferris, to an extent, and I did fine. I blew off months' worth of HS classes, smuggled vodka on field trips, forged library passes, may or may not have gotten high with a chemistry teacher. Went to college (of course), where I fucked off for entire semesters and mostly got away with shit by being white, male, straight, cute, reasonably clever, and having a reasonably well-to-do family with good connections.
Where is the evidence that Ferris ends up as badly off as even Lloyd Dobler (who also did fine, I suspect) or Kyle M.'s character?
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:41 (five years ago) link
Molly Ringwald and I think Duckie is gay; Jon Cryer disagrees.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:42 (five years ago) link
been saying for years. Plenty of gay men pined for girls in high school.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:45 (five years ago) link
Willie Wonka is a manipulative, moralising prick who thinks nothing of putting children and their parents through psychological torture and uses his wealth and power to adopt Charlie rather than going through background checks and demonstrating his fitness to be a parent.
― Dan Worsley, Monday, 23 July 2018 18:49 (five years ago) link
Typical entitled Elon Musk type in short.
― Dan Worsley, Monday, 23 July 2018 18:50 (five years ago) link
wait does anyone think willy wonka is the "good guy"?
― mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
he also eats babies
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 18:53 (five years ago) link
I wouldn't say so. It's a collection of short stories refashioned as a novel and it shows, but Renton is still the main focus. As a relative innocent, Spud is the most tragic character though
― Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 18:54 (five years ago) link
Duckie is neither an asshole nor gay. He is a duckman. Duh.
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:07 (five years ago) link
what the sequel did with the characters- and this may all be in welshs work- was shite
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:12 (five years ago) link
obv luke skywalker is a dangerous terrorist
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:13 (five years ago) link
Welsh's sequels were a totally different kind of shite. But shite nonetheless
― Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:15 (five years ago) link
sequels are a general formal problem for the idea of the anti-hero: discuss
― mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:16 (five years ago) link
Agree with YMP that this is a challops. Ferris is about as privileged as someone could be.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
its more that hes a cunt which is separate
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
frodo: was told not to wear the ring
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
lol yeah ferris is definitely a future wall street bro who eventually takes unacceptable risks in the lead-up to the financial crisis
― ant banks and wasp (voodoo chili), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
re: LOTR
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/unused-audio-commentary-by-howard-zinn-and-noam-chomsky-recorded-summer-2002-for-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-one
― Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:24 (five years ago) link
no way it's barely even subtext that Ferris is fucked and his whole motivation is that his charmed existence is about to expire. Rage against the sting of the light. Yes he is privileged (and a cunt) but I dunno I still feel for the privileged cunts of my adolescence who "peaked" in high school. That Ferris is cut and dried the "bad guy" is imo just glib counterintuitive retweet bait passing as insight.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:49 (five years ago) link
sting = dying obv.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:50 (five years ago) link
rage against the death sting
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 19:50 (five years ago) link
his charmed existence is about to expire
present textual evidence for this plz - and Ferris saying "this is all about to be over for me!" doesn't really qualify, cuz what does he know about the future? There's really nothing in the movie that presents an axe dangling over his head, that he'll have to get a shitty job or not get into college or his sister will get revenge on him, there's none of that.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 July 2018 19:53 (five years ago) link
xp re: Ferris. He's been weaseling out of consequences forever; what evidence is that it will stop happening?
He erases his unexcused absences via modem. You don't think he's gonna slide into college / jobs / homeownership with the same oiliness? Shit, I know I would have. And I kind of did!
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:14 (five years ago) link
"ferris is an object of pity" is overthink wish fulfilment
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:18 (five years ago) link
Whose wish is it fulfilling?
Being a quasi-tragic figure isn't the same as being an object of "pity" unless you're Aristotle. Ferris isn't "good" either. His "stop and smell the roses" attitude is precisely what's gonna lead to his destruction. I think he's actually (for the time) a convincing depiction of what self-actualization would look like for a 17 year old--that adults know this comes at some cost seems obvious to me. But that this would also arouse ressentiment also seems obvious!
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:27 (five years ago) link
I haven't seen it in a while--what textual evidence is there that Ferris' charmed/charming lifestyle will come to an end as he becomes an adult?
― Dan I., Monday, 23 July 2018 20:31 (five years ago) link
xp
My basic point is that "Ferris is a generic asshole" is also a hyper-literalist bad-faith reading of the movie fwiw.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:31 (five years ago) link
― Dan I., Monday, July 23, 2018 1:31 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
literally none
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (five years ago) link
Ferris does literally nothing other than smell roses. At no point do you see him actually doing any of the work of being a high school student, let alone the work of being a good person/citizen/son. And there are literally no consequences for it ever. The dude skates.
You may say that "adults know this comes at some cost," but then we also know about the degree to which Martin Shkreli, the Trump boys, Brock Turner, etc. get to skate.
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (five years ago) link
it's true he is not generic, he is a very finely drawn asshole
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:34 (five years ago) link
y'all are all cops
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:37 (five years ago) link
yeah I mean I guess I'd need to rewatch it but I find Ryan's take highly unconvincing. The world is full of rich assholes who were rich assholes in high school and continue to be rich assholes. They fuck up and get away with it throughout their life because they are rich and connected and know how to have the attitude of someone who shit doesn't stick to. This is exactly who goes to work in investment banking.
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:38 (five years ago) link
guys who "peak in high school" are usually working class joes who don't go to college
― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
I've seen the studies
I recommend you all skip school take a pampered ferrari out for a reckless spin sometime.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:41 (five years ago) link
I think it's a perfect comedy film, to be clear!
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:42 (five years ago) link
Ryan
do u identify with ferris
is this a cushy past catching up with u
sympathies man thatll kill ilx cred
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:43 (five years ago) link
everyone on ilx peaked in school
― mark s, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:44 (five years ago) link
show me the lie
no i identify with cameron! hence my affection for him.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:45 (five years ago) link
ur dad had that car
lowest of low ilxors sackcloth thus man
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:51 (five years ago) link
my dad was just about equally protective of our minivan.
― ryan, Monday, 23 July 2018 20:54 (five years ago) link
youre under the microscope now watch out all im sayin
back on topic:
chickens in chicken run. youre chickens, you have a role in society and are pretty well treated for yr part in it no takebacks when the time comes you chickeny fucks
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link
They Live
The glasses were the good guy
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:00 (five years ago) link
uh Birth of a Nation
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
when ryan was in Egypt's land
let my ryan go
― nonsensei (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 23 July 2018 21:17 (five years ago) link
re: avengersthanos was right
― mh, Monday, 23 July 2018 21:25 (five years ago) link
yeah
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:12 (five years ago) link
ET should have stayed
Does Simba demonstrate any qualities during the film that suggest he would be a good leader, or are we simply accepting that because his father was King that he should in turn be King?
― AlanSmithee, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:25 (five years ago) link
that's kind of how monarchies work...
― Number None, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:28 (five years ago) link
I have no patience for you sad sacks who are okay with eliminating sentient life by <100%. Thanos is a schmuck, full stop. He’s trying to save the two-legs category out of a cheesy Malthusian conceit. Go big or go home, chumps; if you think people don’t deserve to exist, just fucking own it.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 23 July 2018 22:34 (five years ago) link
clearly not his point he had environmental concerns but was like totally into ppl too
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:53 (five years ago) link
Lotsa unmanned planes crashed
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:55 (five years ago) link
hmm thats a good point thats gotta have fucked up his 50/50 split right, the collateral damage
thanos u reckless sonofabitch
hes just another ferris
― dele alli my bookmarks (darraghmac), Monday, 23 July 2018 22:56 (five years ago) link
I just finished Toni Erdmann and the villain is not machinery of capitalism but rather it is Toni Erdmann but also maybe we are meant to think so?
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 27 July 2018 18:19 (five years ago) link
Toni Erdmann is Ferris + 50 years.
― home, home and deranged (ledge), Friday, 27 July 2018 18:27 (five years ago) link
Hm... he did steal an expensive vehicle under disguise...
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 27 July 2018 18:33 (five years ago) link
Literally heard someone in an argument with a friend argue that Scrooge was the good guy, that he paid Cratchit a good wage, but Bob was just irresponsible with his money
― Fuck Trump, cops, and the CBP (Neanderthal), Friday, 26 July 2019 22:35 (four years ago) link
What else did Jacob Rees-Mogg say
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 27 July 2019 02:10 (four years ago) link
there's an editorial every christmas about how scrooge is really the good guy. none of the authors have read dickens.
― adam the (abanana), Saturday, 27 July 2019 02:18 (four years ago) link
In A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, Ebenezer Scrooge learns how to be a more paternalistic capitalist.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 27 July 2019 03:37 (four years ago) link
Paris, Texas
― flappy bird, Saturday, 27 July 2019 14:06 (four years ago) link
Point Break would own this thread
― CumuloNIMBY (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 27 July 2019 17:45 (four years ago) link
Nah, what's so awesome about Point Break is that Bigelow 100% knows that both Johnny Utah and Bodhi represent failed, self-deluding versions of masculinity/heroism.
― Good morning, how are you, I'm (Doctor Casino), Saturday, 27 July 2019 17:54 (four years ago) link
Regretted posting that almost immediately, partly because you're right. Point Break isn't a good/bad guy movie. It's not ambivalent or conflicted, it's an indictment of the entire concept of macho conflict.
― CumuloNIMBY (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 27 July 2019 23:19 (four years ago) link
not sure who the good guys are meant to be in Paris, Texas either
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Sunday, 28 July 2019 08:00 (four years ago) link
Armageddon
― 2019OK plus bennu (wins), Sunday, 28 July 2019 08:21 (four years ago) link
lord of the rings is about keeping societal power away from the oiks
― phil neville jacket (darraghmac), Sunday, 28 July 2019 08:32 (four years ago) link
It’s spelt orcs I think
― 2019OK plus bennu (wins), Sunday, 28 July 2019 08:43 (four years ago) link
Polly Toynbee's father Arnold famously wrote a piece about how wretched Tolkien's books were and how he was glad people had finally come to their senses and got bored of all this ridiculous fantasy claptrap, literally weeks before they became a huge international top sellers. Or something like that.
― calzino, Sunday, 28 July 2019 08:49 (four years ago) link
Any US movie with cops, feds or military. Sure it might make me look pro serial killers/hitler/kkk but over time it will balance out just fine!
― calzino, Sunday, 28 July 2019 09:01 (four years ago) link
― flappy bird, Sunday, 28 July 2019 15:17 (four years ago) link
he's meant to be terrible
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Sunday, 28 July 2019 18:59 (four years ago) link
But doesn't the movie try to redeem him ultimately? I've always had a problem with the fact that we never see the Dean Stockwell and Aurore Clement in the second half, after HDS and the kid have left. I'm always thinking about how they're feeling, how they have no idea what is going on or what condition HDS is in. That's such a massive oversight by Sam Shepard, and imo goes a long way in suggesting that HDS can be redeemed via his odyssey.
― flappy bird, Sunday, 28 July 2019 22:08 (four years ago) link
In Natural Born Killers, Oliver Stone is supposed to be the good guy, but he's actually the bad guy.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 28 July 2019 22:15 (four years ago) link
I only saw Paris Texas once, on VHS, but iirc the redemption comes only in HDS realising / remembering / acknowledging (strike according to preference or interpretation) how badly he's damaged those around him. Removing himself from everyone's lives (again) is an act of atonement, not a transformation, and certainly not a recasting of his entire previous history as being a "good guy".
ha ha, Oliver Stone doesn't deal in good guys, but possibly every lead is a Mary Sue, bcz Stone thinks goshdarnit everyone loves a bad boy!
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Monday, 29 July 2019 00:21 (four years ago) link
the Avengers are fascists
― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Monday, 18 July 2022 18:58 (one year ago) link
not really but I still don't get how people were team Stark in Civil War
― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Monday, 18 July 2022 18:59 (one year ago) link
Black Panther
― Left, Monday, 18 July 2022 19:16 (one year ago) link
idk if Killmonger is a villain necessarily but the "good guys" are ultimately on the side of US imperialism against an anticolonial revolution
― Left, Monday, 18 July 2022 19:23 (one year ago) link
I don't remember it very well but I seem to remember not really jibing with 'Thank you for Smoking'
― akm, Monday, 18 July 2022 19:23 (one year ago) link
I seem to remember it being possibly the most facile "satire" on American politics I've ever seen
― Bait Kush (Eric H.), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 14:26 (one year ago) link
i see a lot of comments about marvel movie villains being ideologically correct even if their actions are evil - killmonger is the most common one but i remember similar comments about thanos and now i've seen it about christian bale's character in the new thor as well. which makes me wonder what their game is - are they being intentionally subversive in undercutting the heroism of their heroes or are they countersubversively arguing for colonialism etc? but i know realistically probably they're just trying to come off as "complex" without having any coherent or consistent POV, right?
― na (NA), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 15:22 (one year ago) link
I dont think Nick Naylor was supposed to be a good guy. his whole thing was that he's super charismatic which allows him to get away with a lot of morally grey stuff.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 19 July 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link
they're just trying to come off as "complex" without having any coherent or consistent POV
dingdingdingdingding
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 15:30 (one year ago) link
some sort of emergent POV from hollywood norms + focus groups + insurgent social movements + geopolitical necessities + international markets etcoften comes together as a vague notion of liberal pluralism giving everything a fair shake before being forced to destroy it in self-defence and/or for its own good
it's not that dissimilar from the anticommunist action movies with sympathetic soviet characters/administrations but the politics feel even messier now
― Left, Tuesday, 19 July 2022 16:07 (one year ago) link
xp at NA
That's kind of the Marvel comics shtick, most of the villains have some hook in their character that makes them sympathetic or at least comprehensible. There are few outright evil characters, and in defeating them the protagonists have to confront some issue of moral complexity, etc
― mh, Tuesday, 19 July 2022 16:30 (one year ago) link
With Koyaanisqatsi it's obvious that Godfrey Reggio wanted to portray clouds as the good guys and humanity as the bad guys. But because it's made of stock footage from a particularly interesting time and place, it comes across as a combination of nostalgic shots of life in New York circa the late 1970s plus awesome timelapse shots of cool glass skyscrapers. I kept thinking "what happened to those people" and not "look at those ants ruining nature". It's a good example of a film that's excellent by mistake.
With Powaqqatsi it feels as though he realised his mistake, because it's a lot more concrete. But it still comes across as unintentionally psychotic because the film crew sat there watching people suffering so that they could film them.
I was thinking of Escape from Alcatraz, where the main characters were real-life armed robbers, and there's no suggestion they were framed (or even driven into a life of crime by society), but on the other hand it's one of those post-Watergate/Pentagon Papers 1970s films where all the characters are bastards and heroism is incompatible with the setting. The same goes for the two Sweeney films, because even the good guys are obviously massive dicks.
Manhattan? The writer intended for the lead character to be a quirky wit, but he's a multimillionaire who grooms a 17-year-old girl. Why did that character have to be 17? Why not... 38?
― Ashley Pomeroy, Tuesday, 19 July 2022 18:03 (one year ago) link
I can’t think of specific titles at the moment, but it feels like there’s an entire genre of 1970s films wherein the male lead is a smug asshole to everyone (especially women), yet the film wants us to view him as a righteous countercultural dude thumbing his nose at the polite conventions of straight society, rather than a prick.
― blatherskite, Tuesday, 19 July 2022 22:59 (one year ago) link
That's some of the plot of Hair.
And the Pink Panther.
I don't have much use for Ferris Beuller either.
― your marshmallows may vary (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 23:10 (one year ago) link
O I c we did that years ago
― your marshmallows may vary (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 23:18 (one year ago) link
Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Sunday, December 31, 2017 9:18 AM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink
omg one of my finest hours as a display namer
― terence trent d'ilfer (m bison), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 23:26 (one year ago) link
Five Easy Pieces comes immediately to mind.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 23:26 (one year ago) link
cuckoo's nest, five easy piecesCROSSPOST
― adam t. (abanana), Tuesday, 19 July 2022 23:27 (one year ago) link
watched rear window again recently and Jimmy Stewart's character is such a condescending jackass
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 01:46 (one year ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpSEv2r6hY
Haven’t revisited since the initial viewing but I remember not rooting for the Run Lola Run characters.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 02:10 (one year ago) link
killmonger was right
― no one wants to twerk anymore (will), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 02:27 (one year ago) link
Rewatched the Matrix recently and was totally grossed out by the gun porn and the Enlightened whites with guns shooting everyone because they know the Truth.
Columbine was only a few months after it was released. I don’t know that there’s any correlation, but that movie reads very different now.
― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 02:30 (one year ago) link
dont forget that the enlightened whites also save the day by learning the very ancient, very mysterious, very mystical secrets of KUNG FU. (which ofc is mostly useful for helping them shoot their guns better.)
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 13:16 (one year ago) link
I've seen pushback on that along the lines of "keanu isn't white" but even if he isn't I think it's safe to say neo/thomas anderson is(?). The most interesting parts of the franchise are the parts that undercut the more cliched heroes & villains narrative (so I'll defend the sequels even though they're a mess by any reasonable standard)
i liked the 4th movie more than most but the train scene was horrifying & I'm shocked no one in production flagged it given both anti-asian violence irl & the entire franchise's appropriation problem which had been called out for 20+ years at that point
― Left, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 13:41 (one year ago) link
I can’t think of specific titles at the moment, but it feels like there’s an entire genre of 1970s films wherein the male lead is a smug asshole to everyone (especially women), yet the film wants us to view him as a righteous countercultural dude thumbing his nose at the polite conventions of straight society, rather than a prick.― blatherskite, Tuesday, July 19, 2022 10:59 PM (yesterday)
― blatherskite, Tuesday, July 19, 2022 10:59 PM (yesterday)
I found M*A*S*H (the film, not the TV show) almost unwatchable for this reason.
― Attached by piercing jewelry (bernard snowy), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 13:44 (one year ago) link
ooh good one, yeah thats a pretty tough watch for me these days
re:the matrix, tbh i never gave much thought to appropriation issues but Cow_Art otm abt the gun porn, at least in 1 which is the only one i remember anything about. i just remember being so grossed out by how it was sold as this deeply complex mindbending philosophical sci fi opus, and then whaddya know at the end all of those fascinating existential conflicts are resolved by our brave heroes slipping on sweet Oakley shades and mowing down bunch of people with machine guns.
― nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 13:54 (one year ago) link
if "dickhead male protagonist who we're supposed to like for some reason" qualifies that's 90% of action movies and at least half of the wider canon. like connery's bond is an actual monster and not in a self-aware craig sort of way
I think goodfellas type stuff tries to have it both ways in a way that feels a little disingenuous (that film is one of the better versions of this sort of thing)
― Left, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 13:55 (one year ago) link
matrix is the one film in my top whatever which I have the most issues with, it is a ridiculous blend of brilliance and hackery which really shouldn't work as well as it does
― Left, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 14:01 (one year ago) link
matrix sequels significantly tone down the gunplay
not sure i agree with the enlightened whites stuff at all given how diverse the cast is but ok
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 14:02 (one year ago) link
The part in the Matrix that sticks in my craw is when Neo and Trinity blow away a bunch of ordinary security guards (right before the hallway shootout). It's one thing to have gunfights in a movie like this, but straight-up murder, eh
― jmm, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 14:07 (one year ago) link
there was some point during the Trump presidency that I realized that there is an entire section of the male population that completely missed the point that Walter White and Tony Soprano were bad guys.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 15:00 (one year ago) link
my copy of the DVD has interview with reggio, he claims some people thought he was glorifying technology. disingenuous, the film's thesis is pretty clear. he's trying to make it seem like he isn't clobbering you over the head with the message, hard to believe esp w/ the title reveal at the end. i think there is a more interesting interpretation about the environment and society being almost deterministic processes that are simply unfolding
and yes the 70s vibes rock a lot
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 15:08 (one year ago) link
I had a poster of Alex and his droogs from A Clockwork Orange on my dorm room's wall my freshman year of college and, now that I've gone through the adult arc of cringing at the unconscious motivations that make kids put things like that on their walls, especially in that moment, I think it's just really funny
there's something in dude's brains where they either figure shit out or they're adults with Scarface posters in their man cave who think Walt and Tony Soprano are cool and the protagonist is always good and cool
― mh, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 15:10 (one year ago) link
obviously by a couple years into college I was very enlightened and watching Koyaanisqatsi with my friends and thinking it was deep and good and cool
which is also assigning deeper meaning in a kind of cringe way, but I can look back and laugh at that, too
― mh, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 15:12 (one year ago) link
tbh they kind of wanted you to think "heisenberg" was cool for part of breaking bad (he wasn't) even if they make it clear walter white is a bad man (it is like the ultimate nerd power fantasy at times). they also put you on tony soprano's side for a while by giving him relatable problems and surrounding him with even worse people. both shows turned on the characters eventually but I'm not sure the hero worship is a *total* misreading
― Left, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 15:56 (one year ago) link
What about Sam Spade? I would've included him in the poll of Maltese Falcon villains now.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 16:08 (one year ago) link
Sam Spade is literally described by Hammett as "a blond Satan" in the book.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 16:14 (one year ago) link
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, July 20, 2022 11:00 AM bookmarkflaglink
there are entire Reddit threads about how Walter did nothing wrong, I thin kwe were clowning on a few bad hot takes in the BB thread after the Ozymandias episode. it blows my mind that anybody bought his heroic father story, even in Season 1.
― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 16:33 (one year ago) link
there ain't no good guys. there ain't no bad guys.there's just you and me and we just disagree.
― F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 16:47 (one year ago) link
i'm gonna hurt you for making me think of that song
― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 17:03 (one year ago) link
of course, this is a dorm room stoner staple. i wouldn't say the movie is terribly deep anymore, but i think it's still good and cool. pointed me towards a lot of woo-woo mindfulness/eastern philosophy stuff that i take some comfort in and ponder still today
i haven't seen either sequel, they don't look very good. i was really disappointed by samsara, it was gorgeously shot, but pretty incoherent overall
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:03 (one year ago) link
Even at the time I enjoyed it as basically a lava lamp for the glass jams Breaking bad et al belong itt in as far as those Redditors disagree w/ the screenwriters on who the good guys are I guess
― Wiggum Dorma (wins), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:26 (one year ago) link
Dan Fielding was obviously the hero on Night Court
― F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:27 (one year ago) link
seems like a good thread to drop this conversation starter
These are mostly all good movies, c'mon pic.twitter.com/5JmlACsVhr— Shoegaze Dad 🇵🇭 (@yeoldedad) July 20, 2022
― Sudden Birdnet Thus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:28 (one year ago) link
― F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Wednesday, July 20, 2022 2:27 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
otm
― mh, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:33 (one year ago) link
xp huh, I've seen people make graphics like that for years and that's a new variation
― mh, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:37 (one year ago) link
Thinking back to breaking bad even in the first couple of seasons for every moment of “Heisenberg” being ~badass~ there were a dozen moments of Walt and Jesse being incompetent, ppl who actually were competent berating/clowning them for being fools The moral case against them was made p comprehensibly as well but the things they do are “filmed” to appear “cool” or “dramatically compelling” which can disconcert those who have never encountered fiction before
― Wiggum Dorma (wins), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:41 (one year ago) link
xp there is maybe a good point in there somewhere, but 0/10 on the execution. it is making people furious on twitter and maybe that was the point.
― Sudden Birdnet Thus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:42 (one year ago) link
Needs more John Ford tbh
― Bait Kush (Eric H.), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 19:53 (one year ago) link
A+ trolling effort by whoever put that "aggressively bland" infographic together.
A recent movie that struck me as firmly belonging in this thread is The Northman.
― beard papa, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 22:16 (one year ago) link
I shouldn't bother but
1. The Eastwood characters in the spaghetti westerns are not trying to "bring order to communities," they are trying to enrich themselves personally
2. Those characters with "well-paying office jobs" are not "upper class"
― Josefa, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 22:19 (one year ago) link
‘Aggressively bland” immediately refuted by pic of Rowdy Roddy Piper in shades. Try better.
― F'kin Magnetometers, how do they work? (President Keyes), Wednesday, 20 July 2022 22:31 (one year ago) link
If not already mentioned, Dustin Hoffman's character in Straw Dogs
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 20 July 2022 23:17 (one year ago) link
otm, the house is the villain
― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Thursday, 21 July 2022 01:31 (one year ago) link
If we're doing TV shows, I always thought Philip & Elizabeth in The Americans were the bad guys and spent six seasons waiting for them to get their comeuppance.
― lord of the rongs (anagram), Thursday, 21 July 2022 07:50 (one year ago) link
― beard papa, Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:16 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
lol what? this movie went out of its way to make it REALLY obvious that the main character's motives were overly simplistic and did not map to reality
― karl...arlk...rlka...lkar..., Friday, 22 July 2022 13:24 (one year ago) link