Your Retirement Savings

This will sound like gloating but in Australia 9.5% of every paycheck you ever earn goes into a superannuation fund. This seems like a good system.

This will sound like gloating but in Australia 9.5% of every paycheck you ever earn goes into a superannuation fund. This seems like a good system.

i won't be retiring

my retirement plan is death

something to look forward to

My current job has a pension scheme so I assume by now it's over $1000. Banking on an early death tbh

a big tent and a one-way ticket to Uzbekistan should do me

pretty sure all tickets to uzbekistan are one-way iirc

Same as Ed, about 10% goes into a lol retiring fund. Thousands there I have a way better destination for rn tbh

Throughout the years of my working like I’ve done 10-12% or several years of nothing when I was too dumb to sign up for a 401k in my early jobs. For my new job I started last year I upped my savings per payday to 16%. 38 years old, seems prudent?

and get you showing off about buying a big tent, you’re clearly better-prepared for retirement than i am

I really need to get around to consolidating the last few retirement accounts from old jobs into my federal TSP

Defined benefit scheme so no cash value but it's a good un, presuming I don't get promoted and work til 66 I think it would be valued at that stage at something over a million

Actuarially speaking im quarter paid up so 250k I guess

I'm public sector btw but cant afford a house tbf

Yeah, my retirement account is doing pretty well through no fault of my own. Paycheck to paycheck I'm tripping over my own dick.

I’ve been contributing 10 to 15% of each paycheck for the last ten years to all stock funds. Company matches to a certain point and I’m full vested

Much like deems, defined benefit, public sector, fully vested, etc. I’d hit 40 years service when I’m 63, another 16 years off, and if I fully cashed out then and there it would approach a million at current levels but that would also remove my medical insurance payments so no thanks — will stick with monthly payouts instead whenever I do retire.

I have no idea. Nowhere near enough. Will be very disappointed if my plan to die on the job falls through.

The last time I checked my account at Fidelity, it was gratifyingly robust. Then the market gyrations hit.

I've been doing well with plugging 10% of my salary into a 401k for the past decade+. Don't yet know how any savings I've established is going to look once I send my son to college in a few years.

Fully vested public sector employee, bolstered by Roth IRAs and my own savings.

I've considered a Roth because why not. (Also suits my temper to just have the taxes paid already.) There's some supplementary money from the UC I have invested in a 401-ish setup that I treat rather casually; among other plans the UC offers a typical stocks/bonds mix that grows more conservative with time so it's sitting in that for the most part, and it'll tick over. My separate personal savings is for emergencies or some possible big purchase down the road, though with housing being what it is here, that's kinda unlikely.

suicide I guess?

I sure hope plasma clinics still exist by the time I'm in my sixties.

I have low risk Roth IRAs (a redundant phrase, I guess), so the fluctuations of the market don't significantly affect it. Obviously it's done better in the last 15 months but not substantially so.

I do think about it. Basically I have great credit, I really try to maintain that, I think when I get old I will apply for shit loads of credit cards....legally emancipate my daughter, then filter whatever I can give to her in cash form, then sell her the house for $1 while I continue to live there. Then just use one credit card to keep paying the other minimum payments and keep that shell game going for as long as possible, then whatever declare bankruptcy or die or whatever and hopefully leave the credit card companies eating it

Retirement in the 21st century is:

https://www.touchofart.eu/photos/Dariusz_Kaleta/big/Sokrates_i_Cykuta_dkal55.jpg

oh yeah and also I figure while running up the credit cards if there still is social security I'll take those payments, withdraw the cash and put those in an offshore account or even safety deposit box under a different name and just go grab cash for stuff after the credit card game is up

ums, how much do you charge for a retirement plan consultation, and can I pay you in pogs?

Step 1: storage unit full of Beanie Babies
Step 2: ???
Step 3: retirement!

I really like UMS's plan - $1 sale of the house is clever, but I think you should also budget for a good lawyer for your daughter. Legally emancipating her doesn't mean your creditors won't still try to lean on her to settle your estate.

For extra righteousness I might also say that your orgy of credit-card-fueled spending should probably shift away from local small businesses.ethically sourced whatsits, and more toward eeevil megacorps, as you get closer to financial self-immolation. Make sure all the people who get screwed over are the ones who deserve it.

considering how much you need to retire shouldn't there either be a few more options or consolidate a bunch of these into one? is there a practical difference between having saved $3,000 or $9,000 or $15,000 or $30,000? or is that the pt? that whatever we've most likely done so far is hopelessly inadequate?

does anyone else worry about putting money aside for the future when maybe there will be no gov backing the dollar in the future?

a big tent and a one-way ticket to Uzbekistan should do me

i'd love to visit bukhara one day

Ripple guys ripple

i have a meager IRA from a previous job that matched contributions, however, as i'm under 30 i wonder if i should just take that $ and use it to travel and whatnot before we go full waterworld

Invest in sunscreen and swimwear.

i have quite a bit but not as much as i should have; I withdrew a lot to buy a house six years ago, which was actually a good investment (so far). my company doesn't match unfortunately.

"does anyone else worry about putting money aside for the future when maybe there will be no gov backing the dollar in the future?"

all the time

I really like UMS's plan - $1 sale of the house is clever, but I think you should also budget for a good lawyer for your daughter. Legally emancipating her doesn't mean your creditors won't still try to lean on her to settle your estate.

For extra righteousness I might also say that your orgy of credit-card-fueled spending should probably shift away from local small businesses.ethically sourced whatsits, and more toward eeevil megacorps, as you get closer to financial self-immolation. Make sure all the people who get screwed over are the ones who deserve it.

― I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 9, 2018 9:16 AM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thanks, that's good advice and also good point on screwing the big companies.

Old Lunch - sign up for my webinar "Dirtbag Retirement Planning"

Trump has been sort of...inspirational is the wrong word...but eye opening, like reading about him, it's like rich people act like crooks all the time why should I approach things like ooh save my pennies one at a time like a good little boy

Also inspired a couple of things...a friend's brother was getting divorced and they were broke as hell but his soon to be ex stayed in the house and just kept bullshitting and making payment agreements and sending them payments here and there as much as she could and it was FOUR years before she was evicted

also, my cousin does crop insurance and one of his adjusters is this older guy who went down post-Katrina with his wife in an RV to do freelance adjusting (there was obviously just shit tons of work down there)...anyway, he goes to check out this trailer park that had been destroyed, gets there and there's NOTHING left, like maybe a piece of sheet metal here and there or piece of wood, but like the things was erased...like it never existed...so like good luck trying to assess anything, he was just gonna write it up as a total loss for every person that could be shown to own a trailer there...

anyway, he's walking along the beach and he sees this sock...picks it up and it's full of cash. a lot. so he's like how the fuck would I ever trace who's money this was? so he takes it back, and him and his wife hang it up to dry like in a fuckin movie..anyway, it turns out to be more than $50,000....so he's real careful about it but it like fuck it, it's just gonna sit in some government office or something and they'll never get it to whose it was anyway...so they just keep the cash, don't buy anything crazy but just say hey this is food, groceries and clothing money...he got more than a decade out of it, just using it for those basics and paying in cash keeping the money in a safe

but eye opening, like reading about him, it's like rich people act like crooks all the time why should I approach things like ooh save my pennies one at a time like a good little boy

on one hand yeah but otoh you want to be a better human than djt. not saying you can't bend the rules and be a good person (and sometimes maybe bending the rules is required to be a good person) but the way djt acts like a crook he leaves a lot of damage in his wake.

who am i damaging in my scenarios? (if you say banks or credit card companies i don't give a shit)

back when i had a steady job i put 5% of every paycheck into retirement, which was matched by my employer. it is weird, now, outside of that job, to have ~$0 in my bank account but to have a decent amount stored away for "retirement" 35 years from now. hopefully i won't have to withdraw it early in order to make it through the next few decades

one of the many reasons I left the usa was that here I'm a civil servant with a nice pension plan. since I came here late it'll only be like 80% of my highest salary but that'll be plenty, especially since there'll be no health care costs. no college costs either (my older daughter will start higher ed this fall, if we were still in the usa I have no idea how we'd have handled that, I guess the usual loan thing)

https://i.imgur.com/kV3v7oZ.png

this is good presumably. anyway, i play along to an extent with the conceit that in 30y time the world financial markets will still be intact. but i am p close to converting my retirement plan contribution into a canned goods and ammunition stockpile fund

considering how much you need to retire shouldn't there either be a few more options or consolidate a bunch of these into one?

I worry that my savings are inadequate and I'm in the highest category (albeit barely)

I have a 401k, but have not been able to contribute more than a couple % of my income to it for many years. I've also borrowed from it twice, once to buy a home (stupid, I know) so I'm paying that back rather than accumulating new retirement savings. The recent fluctuations didn't hit me too badly because with the help of our company's advisor my portfolio is VERY conservative.

Although last year I was getting like an 11-12% return, now I'm getting 2.66% YTD. Thanks, Trump!

I am retired now. My answer will no doubt ruin the curve.

I contribute the max 18,500 every year and currently have $140K total. At 36 with a good twenty years to go I think I’m sitting pretty. Thank you Thrift Savings Plan. And I guess thank you Ohio for having such a low cost-of-living.

i have $1000 saved dollars and i am so fucked forever.

You have saved dollars?! So jealous right now.

P.S. I am powerfucked times infinity.

I do have a change jar at home that's like a quarter full atm, so it isn't technically true to say I have NO savings.

$0 but the only person in my family who's ever "retired" was my grandmother who worked for the post office and even then she worked 30 hours a week as a Wal-Mart greeter until she died, so the concept is fundamentally foreign to me.

the $1000 i have saved is because i tried to save some money while i was working a bit extra, and then i gave it to my wife for safekeeping.
i 100% live paycheck to paycheck, and my 2 days/week regular work doesn't cover my rent.

I think my mom is the first person in my family to retire and stay retired (so far, it's only been a couple of years). Thoroughly expect to still be working as a brittle nonagenarian.

We were pretty rich when my daughter was born. Her college account balance is twice (twice!) my IRA balance. She's 10.

Some folks say it should be the other way round, because you can borrow for college but you can't borrow for retirement. Welp, too late now.

I may have to ask my daughter if I can crash in her dorm for a while.

a big tent and a one-way ticket to Uzbekistan should do me

i'd love to visit bukhara one day

I've been to Uzbekistan, some cool stuff, madrasas, Samarkand, Bukhara, Tashkent, etc., but it's pretty hardcore there right now. Great bread, great plov!

'Zero student loan debt' is second only to 'life' in the list of greatest gifts you can give to a child.

ie I have no savings largely thanks to student loan debt. Thanks, college (and, tbf, my complete absence of financial acumen).

i live paycheck to paycheck. i currently have about $800 credit card debt, that's the extent of my worldly debts. i have no savings, and while i do have a decent enough pension in my current job - where I've only been 18 months - i am extremely unlikely to stay here long-term as i don't want to live where i am longer than perhaps a year or two more.

oh i have student debt in scotland of about 1500 pounds but a: they don't collect it from me since i left the country, b: it's interest are,. c: they take it directly out of my paycheck when I'm in scotland in very reasonable (i.e. small) installments so i basically don't even think about it as being a thing that exists

yeah, my retirement savings pretty much == my student loan debt. i'm hoping that the savings appreciate at a faster rate than the debt, but who knows.

I may have to ask my daughter if I can crash in her dorm for a while.

― I will finish what I (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 9, 2018 1:58 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

throw keggers to fund your retirement!

it's probably been addressed in the uncool conservative beliefs thread, but the student loan debt problem is related to a higher education bubble, which could be helped in the future by reducing the number of people going into debt to go to college, and reducing the number of people going to college, period. Many of them get little professional or financial benefit from higher education. If they are going to be Wal-Mart greeters or Uber drivers or Amazon warehouse workers, or even many computer programmers, the only real role of college is to prolong childhood/youth, postpone the meaningless drudgery of adulthood, and to give a basic overview of social justice issues.

I have a lot of money saved. This is due to me being cheap as shit, saving a majority of every paycheck since I was 16 and never having student loans or any serious health issues yet.

also living somewhere cheap i suppose?

I took out a few grand in student loans to finish my master's thesis without having to have a day job, (after failing at that for 3 1/2 years) then I paid $60 a month for 10 years on autopay, and my credit is now "excellent"

Yeah. The student loan debt crisis is very real and it needs to be addressed asap.

By a strange coincidence that there is ~$1.4 trillion in outstanding student debt, and the recent tax bill is estimated to increase the national debt by ~$1.4 trillion, while it does nothing whatsoever to address student loan debt but pours most of its largesse into the pockets of the ultra-wealthy. We are so fucked.

making notes for my ILXor plundering spree 25 years from now

xpost Hard emphasis on the 'we'.

xpost. No, I lived in NYC for 13 years. Now I kind of live everywhere.

you entered the matrix

must have a hell of a job!

Even though I have a lot of money saved in cash and I paid for my last apartment in Astoria in cash, I still won't take taxis/ubers, haven't had cable since 2003, my MotoG has been cracked for over a year, I am using a second hand laptop, I cut and dye my own hair...but I do drink expensive bottles of wine regularly. My mom was a waitress and dad military. I am just super good with saving money, making investments and being flexible with jobs.

less than it was at the beginning of the past two weeks

xpost -- Can't claim to be on Yerac's level but the importance of some kind of consistent frugality is key. Let the indulgences be just that, and sparingly rather than constants. (Obvious points but.)

voted 0

the student loan debt problem is related to a higher education bubble, which could be helped in the future by reducing the number of people going into debt to go to college, and reducing the number of people going to college, period. Many of them get little professional or financial benefit from higher education.

I'm super wary of this line of thinking. People with degrees still earn way more over a lifetime than people without, and that's not reversing itself any time soon.

As someone without a degree, there's a security to having that piece of paper that I don't have. If my business fails, I can go make $11/hr at an Amazon warehouse until I die of heat exhaustion.

i have a considerable amount in my 401k thanks to starting to contribute when i was 22, a nice employer match and profit-sharing contribution, and some cool portfolio management stuff we get (~20% return in the last year even with the recent dip). but i'm 30 years from needing that money so it's pretty uh conceptual at this time.

i have none which is dumb of me as I've been financially stable for a couple years and still haven't gotten around to setting something up

college is for networking

I kind of think everyone should be able to start a 401k at birth

I really wonder about US social security and will it be there or not when I retire

or shall I say "when I can no longer work"

I kind of think everyone should be able to start a 401k at birth

Hell yes they should.

are y'all who are putting 10%+ of income into a 401(k)/Roth/etc including employer match in that number?

I feel insanely privileged and jerkish for even asking that, I'm here thinking "am I way behind?!" when half my peers here are measuring savings in sandwiches :/

hahahah employer with a retirement plan??? riiigggght

carey, can i get a loan?

I'm going to lose some shit at some point from leaving this place or them finally restructuring the corporate crap long before I retire but I shit you not, I have some 401(k) matching _and_ a pension plan because I work for a dinosaur

the pension plan's going to disappear any moment

I don't loan money, ever. But I will invest with or just buy someone the essential thing they need. I am always happy to buy drinks.

always essential to buy drinks

I guess if we want to consider a record collection as savings, then I'm doing better.

I had to finally get rid of almost all hardcopy music besides what fit into two boxes two years go. Moving really makes you put what you own and keep in perspective. I had all my stuff in a 8x10 storage unit for a year and when I opened the boxes in another country it was amazing what I had forgotten about and what I was annoyed I hadn't already sold.

are y'all who are putting 10%+ of income into a 401(k)/Roth/etc including employer match in that number?

i put in 9% on my own and our match is 7% i think. i should bump to 10% this year prob.

is your company’s pension plan still open? like if i got hired there today would i get in w/some unvested status? when it goes away (and it will) you’ll still end up with a chunk to put in an IRA or something.

The only time I put money into 401ks is for the employer match. I feel like I can do better with the money outside of the preselected mutual funds the 401k holds. I like flexibility.

I had to finally get rid of almost all hardcopy music besides what fit into two boxes two years go. Moving really makes you put what you own and keep in perspective.

It does -- glad I grew up moving (like Yerac, military dad) as it's gotten me used to the idea, and to welcome both moves if needed and reducing what I have as necessary. Of the many books and CDs I've sold or given away or donated over time, I can't say I miss a single one. (Honestly the only exception would be The Alienist, and I've only thought about that recently given the TV version.)

yerac will you manage my money for me

About 15 years ago I worked for a company that contributed 3% of my salary to a 401K as a profit-sharing arrangement.

In my current job, I heard they matched 3%, and I was like, "cool, just like my old place." Then I realized they meant 3% of my contribution, which is a decidedly different amount.

college is for networking

lmao just one more thing I did wrong

is your company’s pension plan still open? like if i got hired there today would i get in w/some unvested status? when it goes away (and it will) you’ll still end up with a chunk to put in an IRA or something.

nope, nope, no clue

I also did a poor job of networking in college but networked well around town after college... just nothing related to job prospects. I just met some nice people.

I have £13,000 in my pension pot including employer contributions. I have debts that amount to about half that, which I hope to have paid off in about 5 years' time, and nothing in the bank. Apparently the projected value of my pension plan when I retire is £112k and my estimated income will be £11k a year. That might not seem like much now but I'm sure it'll be worth a lot more in 2053!

xp my list bit is more of a statement, they’ll prob cash it out to you eventually.

My mom asked me to manage her money but I would not be able to deal with that stress of managing someone else's money.

The last two years I realized I have everything that I need. Things I see that I want, I look at them and am happy that they exist and I got to enjoy them but I don't need to own them. I suddenly became really buddhist/hippie about owning things. I just want freedom to not have to do shit for someone else because of money. If people struggle with saving, Mr Money Moustache's website is pretty good. My overhead was already low, but after I read his site I probably cut down 15% more. It's neverending calculus of what things and experiences are worth to you and where you would rather put that money.

i am super frugal but really the only way for me to be able to save money would be to move to a cheaper city or have multiple roommates. i think the former is probably the way to go as I'm never having roommates ever again

I just want freedom to not have to do shit for someone else because of money.

For me it's slightly different, in that public sector means I'm not making someone *else* money. Therefore I don't mind the work on that level -- and on a more concrete one, the work I'm doing can and has benefitted others. That itself is enough.

As others have said moving overseas 3 times really focusses the mind on what’s important. I don’t think we are especially frugal but we don’t have a big house full of stuff, own a car, but we do travel a lot and spend a lot on food. We’ve both got good jobs and don’t have kids. Which is another way of saying hat I’m lucky enough to be able to max out my super contributions and max out my tax free company share purchase scheme plus do some saving and investing on the side. This goes some way to making up for not really starting any of this till I came to Australia,

I still freak out a bit that I should be doing more, whilst the retirement savings are building I don’t think I’ve got enough liquid savings in case of emergencies

I’m trying to imagine this thread on ILX in 2006

I think I’m basically in favour of any kind of savings scheme where money is garnished from my pay cheque before I even see it. I’m not the most disciplined of person about this. I like the Australian system in that it has very little optionality on employees or employers. I know some people have been able to operate their set-managed funds like their own private carribean tax shelters and people not in not for profit funds get somewhat rorted.

It’s interesting how contributions are characterised. Called compulsory employer contributions but always included in gross pay, always there so it doesn’t really matter.

When will you retire?

Saving for retirement thread, jesus christ is this shit really as complicated as it sounds (talking as a U.S.er)

Few others

Even if it weren't complicated. most of us would still be fucked. It's not that the options are confusing, merely that the amount of money it will take to retire is simply not an amount I will have.

I think I’m basically in favour of any kind of savings scheme where money is garnished from my pay cheque before I even see it. I’m not the most disciplined of person about this.

This times infinity. I'm terrible with money and welcome these schemes. Don't have to deal with any of it, plus my employer coughs up nearly half in extras.

I really do not realize enough how fortunate I am with this. But that's also because it's so vexing: all that money being parked somewhere way out of reach. I can't even imagine turning 50, let alone turning 67 and needing money. The idea of having a pension is completely otherworldly to me. And I'm closer to it than to when I started working, more or less.

I think I'll join ums on his righteous path and blow it all and screw over the capitalist death machine. It would be the most satisfying way to go down and turn to dust.

Just don't f/w Irish state current funds ye cunts

i'm pretty damn frugal apart from a) not having a roommate and b) dropping my laundry off

sometimes to the point of stupidity -- enough with trying to take public transport to laguardia, just get a fucking cab

Funny to see others itt who grew up in a military family and learned to keep things sleek and thrifty. I, on the other hand, have opted to nest like a m-f-er now that I am grown and blessedly no longer darting about the country every six months. I take great comfort in my abundance of stuff and hope I will continue to do so when I'm old and participating in medical experiments to make ends meet.

I mean I wouldn't call my setup sleek and thrifty per se, but sleeker for sure -- and I've always tried over the last twenty years to get rid of things during each move.

I don't think I am thrifty in my belongings but am cheap in getting them. Like I shop around and time it. If I am going to have a couch it's going to be a 10 ft chesterfield that I always wanted, a bed..a foam california king, a dining table...a custom made 8 footer on iron legs. But i am happy to give up daily trips to starbucks for it. I would also work in a record store again for cash under the table because that is a job that I loved. (mookie, I still take public transport to the airport where I can. I was in London last week and yesterday we walked a mile to London Bridge to catch the cheaper train to Gatwick).

sometimes to the point of stupidity -- enough with trying to take public transport to laguardia, just get a fucking cab

― mookieproof, Friday, February 9, 2018 6:09 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

relatable

the thing that makes no sense to me is I do this on vacation, like I might even go shopping because hey, vacation! buy some new shoes since I'm walking all over a different city. then I end up walking around a bunch carrying a bag, and transfer buses twice to get back to where I'm staying

public transport to laguardia kind of blows btw

I've done it once myself. Took a while.

I'm still not sure if that was a free bus or if I was supposed to pay at some point

it's super easy from Astoria to get to Laguardia. I literally just travel around all the time now, somewhat retired, and I rarely buy anything that's a non-food product or postcard. I literally could die without buying another pair of shoes or bag or piece of clothing and be fine and super well dressed. I am sometimes astonished by all the beautiful clothes I have that I rarely wear.

I would probably drop off my laundry more except it always comes back too fragrant and I am half asian so it goes against my ethos.

I am privileged in many regards so the main money-saving practices I feel like I can praise myself for are not driving, not drinking, not smoking, and not reproducing, all of which I recommend.

i have pension, in which i am vested, and i only started 401k a couple years ago (too late for someone as "smart" as i am imo). it's going very slowly. with the pension i am closer to the top of this poll but it's not enough. i wish i didn't have so much student loans. i plan to get a job making a lot more money in about 5 years and never have children. maybe that will help. but i want farm animals and those are expensive. lol.

not driving, not drinking, not smoking, and not reproducing

I just know I'm going to go off the rails and end up doing all of these at the same time some day

the main money-saving practices I feel like I can praise myself for are not driving, not drinking, not smoking, and not reproducing

Same here (we do own a car, but we only use it about once a week). Also not owning a house.

I can co-sign all that, including the no-house thing, with one exception, in that I never mind a drink. But usually just one a day, and usually just a beer. Otherwise, I can’t say I planned such a life, but it’s suited me.

owning a house can be a retirement investment in itself.

and you can mortgage it to buy retirement ripple

Having lived through 2008, I have concluded it’s much riskier to take on a house’s worth of debt and hope that my particular house outperforms the S&P 500 over the next 40 years than it is to rent forever and be able to move if my means ever change.

as Ed pointed out (btw dude we live nearby - must meet up!) Aus has enforced super via garnishing salary, so you get told you earn 70k but it’s actually only 65 or whatever cos super. you never see or miss it. does the US have pensions? As in like if you have no money and you retire do you get a meager pension like we do?

i am in the high bracket for my 401k - i was pretty agressive with my contributions, plus the job before my last one had a gr8 matching program.
mr veg is also high bracket from his last job, though he’s no longer contributing.

Veg you know our system, whats the US one? If one hasnt saved up do they have pensions?

Having lived through 2008, I have concluded it’s much riskier to take on a house’s worth of debt and hope that my particular house outperforms the S&P 500 over the next 40 years than it is to rent forever and be able to move if my means ever change.

― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Saturday, 10 February 2018 06:11 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yep. Tho herself feels differently I am waf vis a vis the Irish property addiction.

tbqh the thought of renting as a pensioner is terrifying to me, irrespective of how much of an income I’d have. Ideally, I’d get my mortgage paid off by 50 and save hard for the remaining years of work.

Pensioners eligible for rent supplement here depending on income.

Off down the country and bobs yer granduncle

Veg you know our system, whats the US one? If one hasnt saved up do they have pensions?

my mom still receives pension payments from her father and mother's accounts---her father's been dead for over 40 years, and her mother for almost 10 (her mother had received her father's payments until her death and then they passed on to her parents). It's remarkable how much American workers have lost over the years---the professions in question here were baker for a supermarket chain and cashier for another supermarket chain, and yet those pensions continue to a grandchild, and not insignificant amounts, either.

er "then they (her father's pension payments) passed to my mom"

I want to say my dad "made" more after his death (!) than he did when he was alive, once you add up all the pensions and whatnot, which fortunately went to my mom.

yeah, I mean, it sounds absurd, but those were the promises in order to get people to work as the bosses wanted. and now workers think they have no leverage, and maybe they don't. is this what maga means?

If you retire with no savings in the USA, then the minimum Social Security combined with Medicare are just adequate to let you starve slowly in a cold house for many years, provided you own the house, can care for yourself, and live within walking distance of groceries and some basic services. Hurray for the USA!

Oh, I almost forgot: the house must never need a new roof or major repairs!

Also in the US there is a maximum earnings that you have to pay into social security on, that is now about a little over $100k -- so someone earning $250k, is only paying into the national retirement fund on less than half of their earned income. Is this the same in other places, or do you pay the same % no matter how much you make?

If you retire with no savings in the USA, then the minimum Social Security combined with Medicare are just adequate to let you starve slowly in a cold house for many years, provided you own the house, can care for yourself, and live within walking distance of groceries and some basic services. Hurray for the USA!

― A is for (Aimless)

hahahaha don't be ridiculous aimless i knew by the age of 20 that social security was going to be bankrupt by my "retirement" age that and i'm never going to see a dime of the money i put into social security

so, are you 25 now?

i started saving and investing in index funds pretty aggressively at 19 (right before dot.com bubble) after watching my parents struggle with money my entire life. so right now, on paper, things are looking ok for me. i have absolutely no faith that this will be the case 5, 10, 20 years from now. i suspect there's going to be some kind paradigm shifting global convulsion and all this 'being responsible' bullshit will have been for naught.

If that’s the case though there’ll be entirely different problems tho, is what I reassure myself with

I have concluded it’s much riskier to take on a house’s worth of debt and hope that my particular house outperforms the S&P 500 over the next 40 years than it is to rent forever and be able to move if my means ever change.

You know you can sell the house though, right? And it's not like a car that automatically loses value? ... I feel like I have less potential mobility as a renter than if I owned a house, but that's largely because everything is super expensive, and I've been in the same place for 20 years and have rent control.

houses are kind of a weird one because, as an investment, you're banking on the idea that appreciation will be higher than the combination of (upkeep + taxes + the difference between mortgage payment and rent payment)

if you buy a new or recently completely remodeled house you're paying for a lot of the upkeep up front, but I'm not that wise

feel like rent vs. buy decisions are hugely influenced by where you live. i’m not too worried about the value of my house where i live but i can see it in other parts of the country.

Anything I have to take care of myself is not a good investment. It’s all I can do to keep myself up and running.

on the other hand, if you're not committed to it being an investment, you can do whatever the hell you want

I talked to a dude who bought a house on the cheap because the previous owner decided, fuck it, I don't need a living room -- I need a hot tub!
the house had a hot tub right in the middle of the living room, and there was some humidity damage and the room reeked like cigar smoke, because the previous dude literally just sat around in the hot tub smoking cigars when he was at home

there's some life lesson in here somewhere

xp - having to maintain property (building, equipment, plants, livestock) teaches you valuable skills imo - I feel marginally better about my chances of surviving an economic collapse because I have basic carpentry skills and understand properties of adhesives

xpost -- the previous dude was Rush Limbaugh?

The purely economic comparison between paying down a mortgage or renting is net cost of occupancy, and a dwelling's appreciation (or depreciation) only matters insofar as it figures into that cost. But a house isn't an investment, it's a place to live, too.

No two places to live are precisely equal in the quality of life they offer you, so you also have to factor in a lot of non-monetary imponderables when comparing them as a Prospective Place to Live Your Life. You try to figure out the best value in terms of net happiness, both short term and long term. Net cost of occupancy may be a big part of that equation, especially the poorer you are, but isn't ever the whole equation.

Also in the US there is a maximum earnings that you have to pay into social security on, that is now about a little over $100k -- so someone earning $250k, is only paying into the national retirement fund on less than half of their earned income. Is this the same in other places, or do you pay the same % no matter how much you make?

― sarahell, Sunday, 11 February 2018 6:28 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is similar in the UK, national insurance drops down to1% at some ridiculously low salary, £45k I want to say. NI is effectivenely just a tax, though and pensions are funded from general taxation rather than a specific government fund.

In Aus there is the age pension for low income people who never built up much of a super balance and that’s funded from taxation as well.

Anything I have to take care of myself is not a good investment. It’s all I can do to keep myself up and running.

lol otm

Why do I get the feeling that the "difference between mortgage and rent payment" equation above presumes that the rent is a lower figure

hey it was in a list, if a mortgage is cheaper it offsets some of the other pieces

my mom's mortgage is less than half my rent

my mortgage payment (mortgage + escrow for rent/insurance) is cheaper than my friend's rent downtown in.. Des Moines, Iowa

they have a pool, though

My brother was going to rent when he went back to school recently but then he just went ahead and bought a house instead because it was cheaper than renting.

(NB, he has already owned and sold a house and understands like financial stuff or whatever and makes good money and is an adult.)

Living in SF, believe you me, I know what the cheaper option is. (And I'm very, very lucky to have it.)

Yeah but the phrase "cheaper option" when it comes to living in SF, is like the phrase "safer option" when given a choice between shooting yourself in the head or having someone else shoot you in the head.

feel like rent vs. buy decisions are hugely influenced by where you live. i’m not too worried about the value of my house where i live but i can see it in other parts of the country.

― call all destroyer

my wife's grandparents bought a nice house on a river bank in west virginia after the war. when they died there they didn't have a backyard, it was all river.

on the other hand after living in indiana for a decade without buying, we bought a house within the first year of moving to portland. making a commitment to living in indiana wasn't something either of us wanted to do, and building equity was less important to us than the ability to get the hell out when the time came. also, every single goddamn west coast city is going the way of sf, and we figured we needed to buy while we could.

here's a good guideline about buying a house: if it's worth buying, you probably can't afford it.

I'll buy a house when I feel like it but I get sick of the smug attitudes of how i'm throwing money away. my parents had my childhood house for 31 years, and as a reward for their great investment....they got upside down, foreclosed and have filed for bankruptcy twice in a decade.

Obv context matters but to me doesn't seem like a slam dunk investment (at least not here). also I would probably burn the place down trying to make my first repair. my father's son I am not in that regard.

Social security is fine and is not on the verge of collapsing and sucking all our salary deductions into a babyboomer-shaped black hole by the time we're 35, btw. At least not unless the government steals all the money out of it, which is a political decision, not some kind of inevitable truth of financial instruments.

buying a house for us was a great investment tradeoff for the money it took out of my 401k. It's more the doubled in value in the past 7 years and it's never, I don't think, going to go down below what we owe on it. I mean maybe it could, but there would have to be like, a nuclear strike on the bay area, I think, to really shift housing prices that much here.

In orbit otm

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/03/05/rocky-road-taking-it-easy/

on the other hand after living in indiana for a decade without buying, we bought a house within the first year of moving to portland. making a commitment to living in indiana wasn't something either of us wanted to do,

you know that if you own a house, you don't have to live in it, you can rent it out? That's the one aspect of "mobility" that is often overlooked in the own vs. rent comparison. In expensive areas, it's often more expensive for a tenant to move than a homeowner to move and keep their house as a rental property.

One expense of becoming a landlord is the extra work involved in managing a rental property. If you farm most of it out to a management company, then you have to pay them for that and even then it isn't work-free for the owner. And if the house sits vacant for a time, it still generates costs with no income. So, there's that to consider.

You still own a house in indiana

And a mortgage to an indianese bank

I would never be a landlord much less of a property further away than next door or downstairs

tbh that's what property management companies are for, although that definitely puts a dent in your rent income

if i ever buy a house again it will definitely have a garage or basement apt/ MIL suite of some kind.

i will, of course, live in the basement apt and rent out the house

I would never be a landlord much less of a property further away than next door or downstairs

Gah, no thank you. A rented property that I could see from my window would be anxiety times ten.

Not sure which would be worse, being lessor or lessee.

If my landlord's a big company way across town, I can relax. However, if my landlord lived upstairs or next door, I'd feel watched (no matter how chill the arrangement or how friendly the handshake. Was last weekend's party too loud? Am I doing the right thing with the recycling? Can I have the band over? If so, what time do we need to turn down the amps? Can I paint everything purple? Can I nail up my extensive collection of Scandinavian death metal paraphernalia?

Contrariwise, are the tenants barbecuing an endangered species in the firepit? Are they having a party where they have satanic ritual sex while swinging from the chandeliers? Are they sawing into the floorboards to anti-vampire stakes? What was that noise in the basement just now? Did someone just say "it puts the lotion in the basket"? No matter how many times I told myself to not look into their affairs, it would be hard to just never even cast a passing glance at how they were behaving inside my investment.

you know that if you own a house, you don't have to live in it, you can rent it out? That's the one aspect of "mobility" that is often overlooked in the own vs. rent comparison. In expensive areas, it's often more expensive for a tenant to move than a homeowner to move and keep their house as a rental property.

― sarahell

oh god, yeah, so i could deal with my tenants not making their payments on time and then saying "oh by the way i need my sink replaced, i dropped a toothbrush in it and it broke", fuck you you didn't drop a toothbrush in it you had a drunken party and somebody SAT ON my fucking sink and it collapsed and now i have to spend six months' rent to replace it, no thank you

anywhere that it's attractive to buy a house, you have no idea what that place will look like in 30 years because climate change

anywhere that it's attractive to buy a house, you have no idea what that place will look like in 30 years because climate change

― 龜

having said that most models that don't involve total human extinction have portland coming out fairly well.

Until the cascadia fault slips

the one that's on a presumed 400 to 600 year recurrence cycle and had its last recurrence 300 years ago? compared to new madrid i'm not terribly concerned

hey can we predict nuclear annihilation too & really make this thread a party

jeez guys

Tbh I think climate change is good news for my retirement planning considering it makes it more likely I’ll die prematurely

Lots of unlikely people will suddenly have oceanfront property,

Looking forward to living in the beach, if only for a while

http://www.fantasticalandrewfox.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/On-the-Beach-cover2.jpg

Lots of unlikely people will suddenly have oceanfront property,

Looking forward to living in the beach, if only for a while

― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:07 PM (yesterday)

I looked at maps a while back, and if I stay in my current place ... total beach!

Some advice: don't look too closely at what's floating in the water.

Based on the smell of what is currently a lake, this is already my standard practice.

Fortunate to be about the last age group at my company with a guaranteed pension. Subsequent union contracts have eliminated the company-provided pension, while promoting personal responsibility for retirement. Didn't start my IRA until early 30s, against much advice, so am behind the curve to some of my peers, but still ahead of the national curve, I think.

Knock on wood, between personal savings, pension, retirement account w/ company match, and possibly Social Security, I should have enough to keep a SINK with a modest lifestyle set. Health is the big question mark.

certainly moving will make you re-evaluate how much vinyl you want to own

remember, even if you have a pension they can evaporate! Nothing is certain. Especially if the pension is not well funded

I hope to retire selling my valuable CD collection

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Idk more interested in these poll results than most

Poll options not high enough

otrm

Sorry. Guess I assumed most of you were in terrible positions in regards to retirement savings.

i think the people that are in great positions want to distinguish themselves from those who are in merely ok positions ...

Centrists Vs upper middles

I have no idea what position I'm in (not bad? but maybe not good) and figure out what qualifies as good for someone with my income and interests

age is a key factor in "good" -- if i was in my 20s and had what I have saved up, I'd feel pretty good about it, but I'm in my 40s, and so ... not so good.

I'll definitely say that if I hadn't've got in and stuck with my UC position all this time since 1997, it might be looking a little dicier for me to an extent. Knowing I've had an actual pension as a backstop -- and that I'm three years away from being able to claim it if needed, though obviously the longer I stay in the system the more it will be -- takes a load off one's mind. (Also, compared to other pension situations that are indeed looking pretty dicey in general, the UC's is on stabler ground overall -- it's certainly nice to hear that the CalPERS system is on better ground now too, though UC's setup is separate from that.)

I'm kind of hoping, perversely, that the pension plan gets killed and rolled into my 401k or something as a lump sum? Because I think I have to retire from this place to get the pension (or get laid off) and I'd like to quit before then.

Are you fully vested at all?

oh wait, I am behind on reading up on the changes to the plan

ignore previous post, I guess I don't care about that particular thing anymore

just reading this thread title alone gave me anxiety . im out

just reading this thread title alone gave me anxiety . im out

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:19 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

same. don't be a music writer unless you want to completely destroy your future, defined as the span of time after you expire, defined as being older than 25

even pensions can get wiped out if they are not well managed.

the best retirement strategy is probably to go live in a different country - its the new retirement immigration plan!

Dont have to live like a 401k refugee

the best retirement strategy is probably to go live in a different country - its the new retirement immigration plan!

― Rabbit Control (Latham Green), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 6:05 AM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Grand old tradition in this, at least from the UK, soon to be halted by brexit.

I’m planning on retiring to japan as the will have the best aged care robots.

Good point man, the bots will be our bedpans!

until they unionize

yes I have emigrated from my home country in part for retirement reasons (& other social safety network reasons), I recommend it warmly to others

I know people who saved, on their own, hundreds of thousands of dollars, through having a good job, cheap rent and no kids. I am not them. Thank god for 401k (and pension too, tho not really sure what I need to do to get it)

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/081016/5-reasons-retire-canada.asp

read that as: 5-reasons-retire-canada.asap

Canada is now KNown as NATION FORMERLY KNOWN AS CANADA

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Srsly poll the 47 and pls be srs this time with the numbers

10k to 50k here. i'm gonna live on twigs and berries

Ur young man you'll be sound

Srsly poll the 47 and pls be srs this time with the numbers
― Simpson L. (darraghmac), Wednesday, February 28, 2018 12:09 AM (fifteen hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not bragging, more of a reflection on growing up lower income, and tilting the other way as a single, no kids guy (I save vs. spend, maybe to a fault). Have been with same company since 23, saving for retirement since 31 or so (starting at 8%, now at 20%), so at $450K in IRA alone. Above water in house, annual pension is secure, and have good emergency savings set aside. Not accounting for Social Security, feels like with my standard of living, I can still retire early.

All comes down to health, really. Could save like crazy, and keel over with it unused. Or could retire, everything crashes or inflates, and I'm penniless. At which point, the Bacon Retirement Plan comes in: one pound of fried pepper bacon per day, until the heart seizes.

Nicely done, no lie. (Except for that final backup plan.)

unless he or she makes it a hit youtube show to annoy a retired whiney

I just plan to die when I run out of money.

I have about 300k in a 401k I was able to save when I worked like a slave at a law firm (I turn 40 next year). But Im a. worried about the hyper stock market bubble exploding and slashing that number in half and b. the rest of my savings/net worth lol dipped below 25k recently after a move and my budgeting didn't include health insurance that I'm not eligible for until mid March.. not in an insane bind but its making me anxious as hell working with less and less of a safety net and being unable to save.

it seems the DINK lifestyle is the only solvent one these days

Kids are a luxury

otm

xpost If you are super worried about a stock market bubble (although it only matters what your account is worth when you actually withdraw the money) you could just transfer the 401k to an IRA and redistribute the funds or hold them in cash/savings until a time that you feel things are cheaper.

everything crashes or inflates, and I'm penniless

...as would be everyone whose net worth could be written without at least a generous handful of zeroes. A general financial catastrophe can't be planned around. You just have to gut it out with whatever resources you can salvage from the fire. But it's always a good idea to have some tangible assets that aren't just 'paper' or digits on a bank's balance sheet, because those are the first to immolate.

There was a time when I thought I'd be able to get away with just selling my CD collection if I was skint.

My plan B is "Well, I can always move to Lincolnshire".

My story is similar to officer sonny bonds', but I had it in the bank where it all got eaten by rent during long-term unemployment