shaving (products): c/d, s/d

I used to get a lot of spots on the right hand side of my chin. I changed my shaving angle and it totally made a difference! However, I seem to have started getting spots on the *left* side of my chin now instead, despite, as far as I can tell, using exactly the same motion. I guess the sebum has to get out somehow...

As far as I remember I was never taught to shave. That's why this thread is so urgent+key.

Search (for sentimental reasons): my ancient philishave tracer, who cares if it don't work so well anymore?

also soap dries out your face so = bad.

oh, and aftershave = alcohol which is painful and dries yr skin up - wtf?

I heard it was better to use cold water on your blade and face so that the stub. would be clenched by your contracting skin and more uprighted. this seems to work OK.

what do you mean you can't see what ur doing! if u can see flesh instead of white you've been there already move on

aftershave sux go 4 creams, lotions etc

Then copious cold water afterwards.

I find that a decent soap does not particularly dry my face, and I have quite oily skin anyway so face drying = good thing.

Shaving daily: Dud. It makes my skin feel weird and constantly irritated, and when I was younger it made me more prone to breaking out. I shave every other day; I don't work in an office, so I could have a floor-length beard with a flag hanging out of it and be perfectly all right.

Expensive, quality razors (like the Mach 3, etc.): Dud, just cause they cost so damn much. I can never use one more than twice, and even twice is sometimes pushing it. I have better luck using disposable Bics, a fresh razor every time I shave, than trying to squeeze a third use out of the quality blades.

I wouldn't have thought it poncey N. - just insurance for the future.

(I wish that wasn't a true story)

I found out. Ouch. OMG. Ouch. I bruised *so* badly.

"After I shower I apply some aftershave balm, usually a Clinique product (Happy! for men these days, though I also have some Hugo Boss stuff that stings a lot more that I use when I'm feeling down on myself)"

Bryan, I want to sniff you....

Me: electric Braun razor. Yay.

Just like the time I put chewing gum in my boyfriend's hair for a *joke*...

(Also: Lara's related to The Hairy Man!)

I've heard good things about pre-shaving oil but have no experience.

Burt's Bees sells a great shaving mug and brush and a great-smelling bay rum soap that fits in the bottom of the mug.

My BF is part German and part middle Eastern, and he got stuck with fair sensitive skin but coarse curly facial hair. He uses a Mach 3 (as do I when I can be arsed to shave) and gillette shaving gel, which I hate, so I bought him Kiehl's alcohol-free aftershave and close shavers white eagle, both of which he used up. Then I got him two Philosophy Common Man, which he likes, and Razor Sharp, which he says shaves too close and so I use it and like it.

It's a bit gross now that I think that my razor is, eh, 8 years old! Eww... maybe it's time to buy a new one?

You're kidding. The Venus is the only blade I can use. It's the only one that 1: Doesn't give me a rash; and 2: Shaves close enough so that I only have to shave once a day.

And no scars, yet.

(I've tried waxing. Doesn't work on me, for some reason.)

Mach 3 Razor.

Being shave by a barber though, now thats the way to go.

I had a friend who waxed his head. It bled very badly.

I just want to update everybody on my disposable razor sharpener. I know this has been a long time coming, but I had some stuff to do. I haven't found anything on the web about it (although I haven't looked very hard). The only writing on the damn thing is "Razor $aver - US Pat No. 5036731" Pick it up at Big Lots or something, I don't know, but I've been using the same Sensor cartridge since Christmas, it's starting to get ridiculous. I'm surprised there's even any metal left!

i use a merkur safety razor, keihls screaming eagle shaving cream or taylor of old bond street, aftershave i use Pashana or Kiehls multi purpose facial formula. Im a shaving snob. Since i switched to the safety razor, no more ingrowns or bumps.

I think my safety razor is merkur as well and I've found their blades to be much better than the wilkinson swords -- pricier but still cheaper than shaving cartridges by far. I haven't really used any fancy creams or soaps, but have instead just been doing neutrogena shave cream. I did do the brush and soap thing for a while - not sure if it was actually better. I don't use an after-shave, only cold water followed by regular moisturizer.

yeah those wilkinson swords made me get serious razor burn, not an issue with the merkur blades.

Destroy (for practical reasons): my ancient philishave tracer, it's kinda on its last legs.

Search (for sentimental reasons): my ancient philishave tracer, who cares if it don't work so well anymore?

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:04 (7 years ago)

Had one of those, it wasn't too good and ate through shaving heads pretty quickly.
Currently I'm using Gillette Eucalyptus Oil gel and Sensor Excel razors. Also I've been doing the "run the razor backwards up your arm as an improvised strop" trick and it really works. I shave every morning and this current blade still has that "first shave with a brand new blade feel" even after a couple of months.

I'm very impressed with Somersets' shaving oils and I even order them online.

oh man, i spend far too much money on shaving products.

'total shaving solution' is still the best oil i've found, by some distance.

the arm-strop doesn't work for me, dunno why.

growing a beard anyway tbh.

i use this. works great, smells nice.
http://www.anthony.com/uploaded_files/images/products/f_c9af14105a6a1f8c7414b9358b4e0fce.jpg

I'm almost afraid to ask the price, but I'm guessing expensive? (based on the usual "the smaller the bottle, the more expensive the contents" rule)

that is a desirable receptacle

http://www.pamex.com/uploads/images/products/total.jpg

not a desirable receptacle, but as it's available online at €20 no P&P for a year's supply, i can't recommend enough.

My mom special-orders this German stuff and gives it to all the guys in my fam -- would work for the girls too, I guess, but I can't afford to go through it that fast.

http://www.apotheke-online-internet.de/images/product_images/info_images/1331147.jpg

its around $20, but it lasts forever. I've had mine going on two years.

this is also fantastic shaving cream.
http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2009/07/proraso-shaving-cream.jpg

i use the art of shaving sandalwood hard soap. mas macho but... sensitive, you see. would consider doing a true safety razor shave but im too chickenshit

i also have no idea how people can shave with an electric razor. Shaving is meant to take time and to be a pleasurable experience.

safety or straight? I was scared of my safety at first, but haven't cut myself once in three years. You get a nice shave and i have never gotten an ingrown since.

my merkur 178

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313WWX90oLL.jpg

safety. i use a mach 3 and am pretty happy w it tbh. i dont know hot demonstrably different a safety shave wd be for me

its truly a beautiful piece of equipment, the weight is fantastic. thats another reason why you shouldn't cut yourself with a safety razor...the weight.

3 blades = bad for skin

try a safety and you won't go back to the Mach.

plus COST!

i want one of those

i also have no idea how people can shave with an electric razor

when i was young and foolish i used to flit between. i had to go to a doctor with persistent skin rash nightmares before i learnt that you pick one and stick with it. my dad switched to electric years ago and swears it's closer and less irritating. find the opposite myself

mach 3- i dunno how it compares to a safety, but compared to anything else i've ever tried it's a miracle

i tried with an electric once as well, my neck was as red as hell itself afterwards.

Best $60 i spent in my life.

well according to dr that time, your skin will take minimum 3 weeks to adjust (i guess that's if you're prone to irritation to begin with)

The mach 3 style razors feel smooth to me, but I don't like how much surface area the cartidges take up. I feel like I lose precision with such a large flat blade. I prefer to use the Sensor 3 blades because they are much smaller. Gillete stopped selling the Sensor 3 cartridges on their own, so now I pluck them off of the Custom Plus 3 Soothing disposables.

These products are a little pricey, but they have worked wonders for me:

Lush - Ambrosia Shaving Cream
Anthony Logistics - After Shave Balm

lush cream was too thick for me, i had the anti-stubble one. it clogged up my razor something rotten.

but extremely pleasant to use, true

I just use a tiny bit each time and I'm good to go. Never had razor clogging issues.

http://www.oldspiceshaving.com/images/OS_10Pack_home.jpg

i did realize that my keihls screaming eagle shaving cream was basically noxema, for three times the price.

I'm excited. I just got my first proper safety razor as an early Christmas gift I've been using a Tweezerman badger shaving brush and various shaving soaps for a couple of years now, and it was long past time to get a real razor. Anyway, this is the razor, a Parker 90R:

http://www.momentumgrooming.com/site_assets/www.momentumgrooming.com/images/dynamic/parker_90r_lg.jpg

I can't wait to have a long hot shower and a slow, careful, single-blade shave. Will report back.

am growing a bit of a bush atm, wd appreciate exfoliation tips tbh.

guys, what should we talk about while kenan's in the shower?

the last bunch of times i shaved i just used cheap (as opposed to the pricey models of!) disposable razors and water on a couple of weeks' beard growth. i used to use a brush, proper shaving soap, etc., but those days are fading. i guess i am becoming a man or something. less cuts with this lumberjack speed makeover technnique, i don't understand

not seeing blood anymore in the sink while shaving or flossing has to represent some sort of transformation-hood i'm thinking, anyway

Someone stole my dopp kit from a hotel room in September. Had my grandfather's ~'60s Old Spice shave soap mug in it. Have a beard now.

am growing a bit of a bush atm

Really now.

he saw whatshername on entourage

Someone stole my dopp kit from a hotel room in September. Had my grandfather's ~'60s Old Spice shave soap mug in it. Have a beard now.

dude that sucks, but at least btwn the leathery skin and whiskers there is currently ample enough obstacle course for the tears to mackanoodle themselves down your face in a newly poetic way

just sayin'

It's like an even sadder Plinko.

well, we should all aspire to have ersatz putting greens on our faces (or crotches, if u are euro)

http://img.loccitane.com/P.aspx?l=en-GB&s=265&e=jpg&id=20SB003LH

I have this goat's milk stuff that I like a lot.

Anyway, good shave. Very very close. Very few nicks, even though I'm not used to the razor yet. Nothing a little rubbing alcohol and lotion can't take care of, anyway.

I'll get better with the razor in the next couple of weeks, I'm sure. I have a Problem Chin -- it's heavy with beard, plus it juts out at an unusual angle.

Also, no stinging or any of that post-shave redness, which is surprising. My face feels all mellow and chill.

cheers, i am envious!

I think for about $100, you can pick up a decent badger brush, some nice soap, a well-made safety razor and some good blades.

less cuts with this lumberjack speed makeover technnique, i don't understand

Slow down.

if i could print off your unhelpful suggestions and exfoliate with them i would so do. But alas they remain utterly unhelpful.

Well, I don't know what to say -- I am not aiming to get bushy, so the shave brush takes care of all my exfoliating.

Maybe try a sugar scrub?

lol u twee ass safety razor bitches, are you gonna drink some tea and gaze wistfully out the window later, fusion is super dope, hi-tek 4 lyfe

you may hate safety razors if you like, but "twee" just doesn't apply.

there are surely other words for precious romantic attachments to objects of yore, but that one works

Shaving is meant to take time and to be a pleasurable experience.

― Mark Chmuras Hot Tub Crime Machine (chrisv2010), Thursday, November 18, 2010 4:48 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i mean srsly yall, get a grip

tom-ford-edited esquire readers or something similar, iirc from cormac mccarthy thread

FFS do you guys like razor burn? Maybe you're faces are made of marble or something, but from over here, there are good shaves and bad shaves, and seeing as it's something I have to do almost every day anyway, I'd much rather it didn't damage my skin or make me uncomfortable. There is a trade-off between convenience and quality here, I'll grant that. But it's not fetishizing objects of yore, or feeling fancy, or anything like that. If it were just that, I wouldn't care about shaving, I'd get a subscription to Cigar Aficionado and listen to Rush. Fact is, cold canned shaving creams and multi-blade razors were a step backward in shaving technology, not forward. It's not just an affectation, I promise you it isn't.

promise?

Same weekend my dopp kit vanished, I got a shave at the Grooming Lounge in Tysons Corner (groom's present to the groomsmen)... The girl took her time, massaging my face with fragrant moisturizing oils, applying hot towels... shaving and massaging and applying. It was a very relaxing, long, pleasurable experience... she applied some aftershave cream thing and told me not to touch my face for an hour... and when I got back to the hotel room, I shaved with my face with a wet Sensor Excel because she'd left all the wiskers on it! Shaving is meant to get the hair off yo face, dawg.

promise?

Yeah. It's a hard sell, I know, but not an empty guarantee. It just takes more time and attention.

The brush is more important than the razor, imo, if you have to OPO.

i have insanely thick manly tough guy beard and i guess my face is not all super sensitive or whatever girls get - so after trying lots of stuff i came to the conclusion that hot water shave no cream is best for me - however the most fantastic shaving cream ive found by far is kiss my face - srsly besto

http://grab.by/7ARY

Is there a product that will stop me from cutting my goddamned face?

xp It's true, the most important thing of all is simple heat, liquid, and time for it to soak in. For instance, I ONLY shave after a hot shower, except in emergencies. Otherwise I'm really asking for a world of red stinging welts. No fancy razor or soap can stop this.

Is there a product that will stop me from cutting my goddamned face?

As my psychiatrist says, there's not a pill for everything. Some things, you have to learn.

I pretty much only shave IN the shower.

Oh, I do that, too, sometimes, depending on the whiskers. It's not a bad way to go, for sure.

I should get a mirror for the shower. I've been going blind before now.

I got a shave at the Grooming Lounge in Tysons Corner (groom's present to the groomsmen)... The girl took her time, massaging my face with fragrant moisturizing oils, applying hot towels... shaving and massaging and applying. It was a very relaxing, long, pleasurable experience... she applied some aftershave cream thing and told me not to touch my face for an hour... and when I got back to the hotel room, I shaved with my face with a wet Sensor Excel because she'd left all the wiskers on it!

had a hot towel shave before graduating from school- similar experience except when the hot towels came off, barber produced a mach three. he then proceed to scour me as if he hated me, going three and four times over the same patch at speed, against the growth, with the growth, sideways to the fucking growth. shaved me as if he were scrubbing a floor. worse shaving rash of my life, took a week to go down.

ps multi blade razors may or may not be a step backwards from safety razors, but as i've said the jump in quality from say an old two blade gillette or wilkinson sword to a mach3 made a huge difference imo.

I actually think that Mach 3 is a litle too dear for what it actually brings and have gone back to the Sensor since it's better shaped for my upper lip. What's u&k for me is hot water and using the brush to raise the stubble up a little.

my shaving brush tends to lose hairs in the battle with my stubble. i just scrub with a hot facecloth beforehand, if i bother doing anything

My other problem with the Mach 3 is that it's not calibrated for the number of passes my razor is making. I shave with the grain at least once and against the grain at least once in most areas and when I did that with three-bladed Mach 3s, I either had to stop after the first pass (not enough) or risk irritating my skin.

since i started shaving every day i've just shaved once, slowly, with the grain. never a perfect shave, but good enough. and yeah, anything more is asking for the pain.

The premise of multi-blade razors is based on yanking your hair out a bit with the first blade, then chopping it with the next, thereby cutting off the hair slightly below the skin. Maybe this could work, in theory, if engineered properly. In practice, it only allows the people who make the cartridges to fill them with cheap, dull blades and charge you slapstick hilarious amounts of money for them.

The only thing that makes them possible to use at all is the "lubrication strip," which slimes you like Bill Murray, and yeah that helps, but once the strip is used up the razor is useless, regardless of how sharp it is. Not that it was ever properly sharp to begin with.

The L'Occitane shaving soap referenced by M. White is really fantastic.

can vouch for some l'occitane general soap bar that is the best for face or other parts probubly

Well noted; in fact, bookmarked.

Whoa, holy hell. I can't spend $16 on a cake of soap!

Who am I, Mr. Burns?

The shaving soap lasts a long time! I can't even remember when I bought the cake we're still using.

Then again, I don't shave very often in the winter so ymmv.

xpost
it lasts forever, like measured in years, no joke. your biggest worry will be centered around the soapdish that it comes packaged in rusting

I like the tubs of soft stuff the Julia has found on Etsy. I know, laugh it up, but there are people making great soap out there.

THAT julia has found. I do not usually call her "the Julia".

You can get the L'Occitane soap without a dish. A long ass time ago, I bought cheaper soap in a little wooden bowl and I just continue to use that, even though the L'O soap doesn't quite fit, because who cares.

jojoba gray market is getting ugly as of late, though

Then again, I don't shave very often in the winter so ymmv.

I don't shave as often either, because I don't take full steamy showers as often, because I don't need to, because there's less opportunity to get all sweaty. BUT on the upside, I find that letting it go for a couple of days results in a better shave when I do get around to it.

Doing it every morning would be the kind of exfoliating that you don't want.

once the strip is used up the razor is useless, regardless of how sharp it is

not ime, clean btwn the blades with an old toothbrush, use soap/foam as normal, you'd not know the strip wasn't there at all

I've been using my old fashioned safety razor for years now. Love it. I have a full beard, so I don't share all over, just cleaning up in places. Works great, and I can pretty much use it with my eyes closed now.

My regimen is simple: A three-edge cartridge razor, ordinary liquid soap, and an empty pimiento jar with a finger of baby laxative mineral oil to store the razor (head-down) between uses.

Every supposed improvement in razors since the original Mach 3 has been underwhelming. 4+ blades, swivel heads, lubricating and tension strips all have negligible returns IMO. More important than these is an "open back" to the cartridge, so whiskers can be flushed out under the faucet stream.

The intent of the mineral oil bath is to retard corrosion, the main cause of razors becoming dull. This helps with costs, but also makes the blades prone to clogging, so ymmv.

I'm not entirely sold on the Shave Secret almond/nut oils as a radical improvement over oiled blade and soap. I do keep a 1 oz jar with my travel kit, where its main merit is portability.

with a finger of baby laxative

lol whut

Haha I think it's just plain old mineral oil. I have a little bottle of it myself to oil my clippers. I imagine if I gave it a good chug, it would be a laxative for me, too.

agree with rest of what sanpaku says tho. must try the mineral oil thing

For which purpose?

Never mind. Don't answer that.

making a baby shit more.

^ when is this ever a problem that needs solving, i wonder?^

Even if it were a problem, baby would have a hard time communicating it.

well babies basically communicate by pooping or not pooping, so

There's screaming, too. Don't underestimate screaming.

Puking and peeing are also solid indicators.

Puking and peeing are also solid indicators.

Liquid indicators, you mean.

Ok let's please not talk about baby shit anymore. I'm just a little bit icked out by this, not to mention far outside my area of expertise.

I've never used castor oil/mineral oil to store the blade. Always just rinsed it under the tap and dried it off.

I'm still not awfully good with my neck. Seems I never developed any habits,much less muscle memories, for shaving with the grain anywhere below my jaw. So my first downward pass is always much too much, and nicks me a few times, and my second upward pass just makes that worse. Cheeks, lip, chin, and jawline, I've all got pretty down pat.

I used to have neck problems as well, but then I gave up and just used with-the-grain passes. It doesn't feel smooth, but it looks smooth, and that's much better than it feeling smooth but looking like a slice of corned beef.

A fine point well made.

I never go against the grain. It just feels wrong. I dont need a shave that close.

I suppose it's nice if your skin can afford it. I'm identifying the areas that it can't.

kenan, your not pushing down are you? let the weight of the razor do the work.

on the neck, with the grain, one pass, no pressure on the razor. Area around adam's apple most likely to react as if grated.

whoah, yeah. i've tried shaving against the grain (up) on my neck a few times and it was a nightmare. i actually ~only~ shave with the grain, period. am i doing it wrong? also, i don't fuck with y'alls fancy stuff, just a mach3 and a can of walgreens w/e foam

i go with the grain for one pass and then usually against the grain where it needs a little more.

i need a shave, didn't have time this morning.

with the grain, if i need closer i'll shower first and go with then against i guess.

Today's shave was much better, and it's all about the blade. I'd been using the Shark blades that came with the razor, and though I understand that they're not terrible blades overall, I should know better than to use the accessories that "come-with." (See: iPhone earphones.) The Merkur Super Platinum blades that I got in the mail this morning did an astoundingly better job, and I doubt that I have gained that much skill with the razor in two days. I hear that Derby is the gold standard, but I'm totally good with these for a while. At any rate, no more Shark.

i havent shaved in 2 weeks, look like a bum, and its great. except for how it looks, i guess.

When my whiskers or hair or fingernails start to get out of control, I start having anxiety dreams about them, the way other people do about their teeth falling out.

I would like to announce that that about a week ago I had completely shaven every hair on my legs & bum and now enjoy the itchiest existence I'll ever know.

For Halloween, I shaved my arm hair. Thereafter followed a not very fun or attractive two weeks.

I tend not to notice (ever) the amount of hair on one's arm...??

It's inconspicuous enough now (though at least to me, noticeably less hair than my usual sasquatch arms), but for a while there it was dark, heavy stubble. I didn't want to roll up my sleeves. Plus, itchy.

I'm an old hand at shaving or closely buzzing my legs by now. I do it every three or four months just for maintenance purposes. Reduces goat-like appearances and leg dandruff, which is exactly as disgusting as it sounds.

beard now needs exfoliating badly. Any special 'beard only' product i should be looking into? Shampoo in the shower? Anyone?

because of flaking? Just use dandruff/dry scalp shampoo, but wash your whole face with it.

nah, the bristles are digging in a bit.

those merkur blades are top notch. wilkinson swords are shit.

We always buy the generic blades from Walgreens. Is this wrong?

VERY.

Damn and blast! Macy's had a fancy shaving section. I will check for better blades on my lunch break.

What type of blade?

These Merkur things, I guess?

for a safety razor yes? merkurs are the way to go. if you can find them at macys, i order mine from amazon.

The ones at walgreens are , no need to go to fancy shaving store to pick them up.

Are merkurs that is.

really merkurs at walgreens? hmm, never seen them around here.

They are just Walgreens brand.

Wal-kurs!

lies. that aint a merkur. those things are like shaving with a tin can. when i really want to be a man i shave with cold water and a k-bar.

Wal-kurs!

LOL

I am going to solve this mystery at lunch. I need something to break up the monotony of my day.

[Removed Illegal Image]y.com/images/conk219_razorbladesmerkur.jpg[/img]

http://badgerandblade.com/gallery/displayimage.php?imageid=1723

so i ran out of safety blades and used an old excel...today I have the worst razor burn. I feel like an asshole brushing on a fine shaving cream only to shave with such a shit razor.

I got a safety razor for x-mas, after reading this thread, but butchered my face the one time I tried to use it. Guessing it might be the blade that came with it, but I haven't gotten around to buying new ones yet. Still using Nivea and applying by hand... possibly this is the reason?

Fuck the Art of Shaving imo.

I'm going back to crude, unartful shaving where I don't bleed.

I'm a devoted brush n soap man myself!

I never investigated better blades.

I've stopped shaving entirely

I finally had to buy a new beard trimmer. Probably have saved a bunch of cash on razors and soap, though.

aftershave is for drinking

― geeta (geeta), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 15:40 (8 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=shave+kit&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6831823893296358894&sa=X&ei=NCEbTv75Da7DsQKt47HCBw&ved=0CGMQ8gIwAQ

Jack Black makes nice stuff.

I'm going back to crude, unartful shaving where I don't bleed.

Yeah, I really wanted to do the whole fancy shaving w/ brush & safety razor thing. ordered some nice stuff and straight butchered my neck the first two times I tried it, then went right back to the Mach 3. I hate how wasteful and expensive the Mach 3 stuff is, so I'm psyching myself to try again soon. Going to invest in some nicer razors this time around.

Proraso shaving creams are excellent but absurdly expensive in London.

ordered some nice stuff and straight butchered my neck the first two times I tried it, then went right back to the Mach 3.

I mean I got a lot better at it over time, but it's been a couple of years and I STILL give myself a nasty slice every few weeks or so. People say "slow down," which I do, but it's the one shave or even one split second during a shave that you don't slow down that always creates the problem, and that's usually the time when you're on your way to a job interview or getting ready to go to a nice dinner. And the gravity of the mistake with an old fashioned razor is just way worse than with a newfangled razor. I do hate the expense of the cartridges, especially since I already have my chrome safety and the blades are so cheap -- maybe I'll just try to always shave on the lowest guard setting from now on. Can anyone recommend a good product for nicks?

You can find a styptic pencil at most pharmacies and department stores next to the shaving supplies. They run about $2 and last forever. Very good for small nicks.

I mentioned this on a different thread, but re: Mach 3 and beyond, it helps to a) fully dry the blade after use and b) sharpen it on your arm like a leather strap (basically, rub it across your arm in a reverse-shaving motion, with the blades rather than against them). I've literally gotten months of use out of a single cartridge where once I needed to change out every week and a half or so.

no patchoulio but this stuff is pretty great

http://finercut.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/burts-bees-shave-cream.jpg

huh *makes mental note*