Bloody hell, *I* fancy you!!!

This chap obviously likes you but doesn't *like* you. He is probably looking for ego-stroking and reassurance but that doesn't make him bad. Sounds like you are both experiencing similar emotions that are complicated by the fact that your feelings are for him. I would advise to STEER WELL CLEAR. you'll only end up looking like a fool or getting upset.

Perhaps I am too proud though?

1. Make a serious pass at him?
2. Get on the Internet and ask some people if they think he might fancy you?

He: I have such terrible luck with girls!
She: I really don't understand men!
He: Do I scare them off by being too intimidating?
She: So do I! I scare them off by being too honest!
He: But girls *hate* honesty! They like to play games!
She: I hate playing games. Why can't we just be free from social convention?
He: Why is it so difficult to just say "I *LIKE* you!!!"
::silence as possibly potentially meaningful looks are exchanged::
She: Perfect Prescription is over, shall we put on Playing With Fire next?
He: It's so unfair, girls never fancy me!

However, in the movie, he pounced on her and she beat him off with a stick. I've had this scenario end with disasterous results if I actually attempt to pounce. Sigh. I don't fancy him in a threatening scary way, I just want to make beautiful free jazz with him. I just want him to know how groovy I think he is.

Oh, this is the confusing, sickening, fun, wonderful, nailbiting awful part of the crush. Where it's all wonderful potential and no hurt or disappointment of non-reciprocation, or the awkwardness of actually trying to blossom into A Thing. Why can't we just stay this way forever?

He: Free jazz! jazz is innocent!
She: Do not free jazz. Put jazz back in jail, 'tis evil!

1. Make a serious pass at him?
2. Get on the Internet and ask some people if they think he might fancy you?

3. Knowing that he reads Freaky Trigger and sometimes lurks on ILM, post thinly veiled dilemmas which make reference to his immense shaggability in the hopes that it will boost his self esteem?

Bear in mind that I'm not entirely sure that the desired end result is us getting it on. The last thing I want right now is a relationship. Maybe I just want to let him know that he's lovely in a way he can't discount. :-)

OK, I'll stop being so obvious.

Oh fuck it, who cares? He's lovely! And if he doesn't realise that I think he's amazing, then he's stupid.

That's always the problem, isn't it?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

N.B. I am not sympathising with jot eff pe's weird hyperdefensive post - it just reminded me of reading this drivel today.

I didn't deny this.

I just hate that men always say "Oh, it's so easy for you girls, you can get laid/find a guy any time."

It's not true. The reason guys say this is because they conveniently exclude a large portion of the female population when they think of "women".

I think women are more honest about having standards, whereas guys seem to like to perpetuate the myth that they'll fuck just about anything.

If they do, it's dull because it's a cliche.

If they don't, it's dull because it's sexism.

(Grrr... this would be so much easier if I knew the English word for Schubladendenker.)

I hardly think that what Melissa said was a cliche; pointing out a general weakness that is present in many men or women (more due to social conditioning than due to their gender itself) might alert some of 'em to this weakness and give them the possibility to work on it, so it's useful even if it is dull. Sure, we are all individuals, and what Melissa said doesn't apply to *all* men, but she's hardly putting us all in one schublade (so to speak) by pointing out a weakness that many men might have. There's a difference between saying "men tend to..." and saying "ALL MEN tend to...", you know.

OK, my mistake. Saying "MOST MEN I KNOW OR HEARD OF tend to etc." every time would be really fucking PC but let's try to think it, please. At least once in a while. Thank you.

...it's still not what "men always say", for christ's s... oh wait, I'm getting into a loop here.

(Don't argue, kids, you're both wrong.)

Melissa, I think that most any woman can get laid most any time. Just go into any bar. I am not saying that she would necessarily want to have sex with any of the men there, but it is highly likely that at least some of the men would be more than willing to have sex with her. (After all, why are there so few male prostitutes who serve women? There just isn't that much of a market when it comes to women wanting to get their rocks off. And yes, there are male escort services, but those tend to cater toward women who actually want an escort/companion for some stated reason - sex may be involved, but it's usually after attending some function where he poses as her date.) BUT there is a big difference between someone finding a sexual partner for a one-night stand or for a fuck-friend and finding someone you want to spend your life with.

For either gender, the search for a mate can be a long and tedious and frustrating and lonely process. It is not easier for one gender or the other, I don't imagine, to find someone with whom they are compatible in things other than sexual interests.

I do believe that men can be sexually manipulated easier than women, but that is a generalization and varies depending on age/sex drive at a given time. (I've seen some older women do some really stupid shit because of their sex drive.)

Okay, that's my piece.

Oh, Kate, get over it. Pounce on the boy. If he's an amazing guy but somehow not interested in you, he'll brush you off and it won't destroy the friendship. Worst case scenario, you have a few awkward weeks and then get over it. (Well, OK, the worst case scenario probably involves a white picket fence and the pitterpatter of little feet, but you see what I mean.)

Gah, that was horrible. I mean, god forbid a man actually care about his appearance! That instantly makes him a gurl.

In the past I've told such guys that they're deliberately setting themselves up for failure by swooning over the girls who don't care about them. Sadly, this has never resulted said guy coming to his senses and coming to appreciate my loyal affection, so I don't recommend it.
:^p

It is a bit odd.

because our fragile psyches are being ingrained by gary zukov and oprah winfrey!

This thread hurts me in my heart, and Mel please keep in mind that your saying it's difficult for you to get action has as much to do with you not considering some people worthy as it has to do with men doing that. That's the point, not that it's hard to find someone who'd be willing to get on you but that it can be difficult to find a situation where you actually both appeal to one another. I used to hate hearing women complain about not getting any until I just started mentally adjusting the words coming out of their mouths to what they really meant: not "I wish I could get laid" but "I wish I could meet a person I actually liked and who liked me too so we could have a relationship that would actually be satisfying to me (and as of press time that person is not you)." I would be a lot more open to listening to guys make this complaint, since there's often provable evidence that they've been trying, really hard, relaxing whatever standards or expectations they may once have had, and they're still finding it impossible -- only as it happens these tend not to be the kind of guys I really want to hear about this sort of thing from.

That's my point though, I feel like I've admitted that. I just wish men would admit it too.

Actually a great and defining moment of my younger life was when I decided I was not going to listen sympathetically to such complaints anymore: I was sitting with this very drunk girl I rather liked and she was having a weepy mini-breakdown about guys not liking her because some guy she liked had been going after whatever girl he liked -- and I made that classic "bloody hell" counterargument and got the "that's sweet" and I realized: this is ridiculous and a waste of your time, and next time you see one of these coming on you are not going to stick around in the hopes of ingratiating yourself by being supportive, unless this person is an actual friend you are going to be minimally sympathetic and then move on with your life, not sit around being the empathy machine and then later having to complain yourself about all these girls who find you so comforting not actually liking you. I can't tell you how much better my life has been since that moment.

However I've had more conversations with girls where the complaint is more "Why aren't I interested in anyone?!" rather than the other way 'round. I'm not sure which is more abject.

From the other side, I did something similar to nabisco on more than one occasion, simply saying "This is nutters. I like you and you're fucking tormenting me."

I absolutely love "I'm not interested in anyone" as a complaint, though I don't think I'd be rude enough to really stress this to anyone in person and expect any sympathy. The thing is it's really counterproductive, as I've learned that saying this too often can just make you more appealing.

http://pluto.imagemagician.com/images/nabisco/drinking-nabisco.jpg

(Incidentally, general note to "potential partners": our name is not Gordon Lightfoot. We cannot read your mind. We prefer to be told specifically, either physically or verbally, that it's OK to take things further. Just so that we don't get accused of rape or something like that. You know?).

I'm actually finding this thread enlightening. It's good when you start a thread on the personal and it ends up sparking debate about the Endless Questions.

On the personal, well... I think Douglas has been the most OTM. ;-)

Without getting too personal, it's that rush when you've known someone 24 hours, you have that intense discussion-talk-mind-meld experience of "Oh my god this person is *exactly* like me in every way!" It makes me do silly things like post overly personal threads to ILX. If you feel like a freak your whole life, it's kind of overwhelming to meet a person who shares your experiences, and you don't know to handle it. If I met someone in a bar who was *exactly* like me, I'd fuck them in a heartbeat, they'd be amazing in bed. But I'd *never* date them, or maybe even not be friends with them, cause they'd remind me of my own freakhood. And destroy the sense of uniqueness which at least gives me a reason to go on living.

With regards to "Hilton" - the exchange took place amid a flurry of other personal revelations. We had been talking about our exes, we'd been talking about our social inadequacies, our problems with bandmates, problems of trying to shut up and fit in in the music industry, then back to moaning about the opposite sex. Ten minutes later he told me about some awful groupie girl who tried to rape him. So I wasn't about to pounce for the fear that's what I'd be perceived as.

Tom always says about crushes, that you idealise in the other person what you most wish you had yourself. I can look at Hilton and go "My god, you're a fucking misunderstood genius. You are brilliant, you are *SO* creative, you are talented, you are beautiful, yes, you may be neurotic and insecure and totally crazy and your bipolar moods and your drinking wreck your life and personality, and your dedication to your work destroys your relationships, and you may be beautifully bitter and can't keep your mouth shut but *I* could love you for that honesty and that bitterness and that talent."

Which is something I really need to spend a lot more time telling myself.

As to whether it's easier for men or women to "get laid", the answer is this: it is far, FAR easier for women to Get Laid. I spent the summer proving this. However, it is far, FAR harder to get laid by someone you would actually *want* to sleep with.

It's also easy for men to get laid. Pick up a guitar or laptop and get on a stage. End of story.

The whole thing just reminds me of the mess I got into - god, it's getting on for a year ago now - friendship which I foolishly allowed to escalate into extremely active passion without bothering to check whether there was actually any love or real common ground in existence. I have to be very careful not to do that again, because the pain after it ended just made my existing pain far, far worse.

Yeah, Kate, I know this is nothing to do with anything. I am frustrated too but in different ways. Pay no mind...

This is the one time I actually came out with the "bloody hell I fancy you" response. And, naturally, got the "that's sweet." It was a bad moment for everyone.

Playing bass on stage, incidentally, never did me a whit of good. Drums either. I think it must be a guitar thing.

He had to listen to me complaining about how Pliny spent most of the night chatting up Some Other Girl, so you know what? He probably didn't actually know or care if *he* stood a chance or if I was going to go "fuck off, weirdo, I like *Pliny*!" What we wanted was some mutual ego stroking, and both of us got it. Both with regard to each others' attractiveness and each others' talent. Happiness all around.

I'm writing happy, gooey bubblegum popsongs about him, and that's what I need out of a boy right now. I could see this turning into an awful, torturous Channel 6 situation, cause, well, I just look at him and *know* where it would go if I tried to persue anything more. I'm aware of that, I'm not going there. (At least that's what I'm saying to myself right now.) Just because you're aware of bad patterns doesn't mean that you can stop them.

But anyway. I should concentrate on my job, and concentrate on my music and concentrate on trying to repair my relationships with my friends that I've alienated and estranged during my self obsessed misery with being useless and unemployed for so long.

They're playing Brown Sugar downstairs and that's how I feel right now. Yeah! yeah! yeah! WOO!

"Dirty" = if you have to ask etc.

Anyway blimey the last time I had a boy in my room was... actually I think the last time I had a boy in my room might have been RickyT in an entirely platonic way might I remind you cor blimey, I must start picking up boys and taking them home.

Who was the last boy in YOUR ROOM ilx0rs?!

("schubladendenker" is a grebt word)

I think I am feverish again!

Me (oh ha ha).

Dronerock is music with guitars wot sounds the same for several minutes. Then stops. New track. Does the same again. I think.

damm you SM out out of my head

The t-shirt, that is. My mind gets dirtier as I get older. And unwahsed hair makes me feel icky these days. Thopugh I did once go three years without washing it. But that was university.

"agamemnon august haze
golden hair zovirax raise
purple cathedrals condone
bloodied scarlet travail zone."

Dirty Dronerock Boy = "I am far too busy thinking about free jazz and tonal modality and the future of modern art to be concerned with the care and cleanlines of my hair" There's a thread around here somewhere entitled "Dirty Dronerock Boys: Shag and Destroy" which will explain everything.

The DDB in question is obviously FAR too busy contemplating radio edits of his epic free jazz arkestra adventures to bother returning text messages. No wonder he never gets laid. :-(

Suzy wants her computer back or else I would expound for hours on the DDB.

often, very definitely not always.

i say again - if only.

It doesn't fucking matter anyway, I got a song out of it. Even if I went out to go shopping and sign off the dole and forgot the entire melody and nearly forgot the entire song but then I remembered it's in 6/8 which made the chorus come back.

And tomorrow I will fancy someone else, probably the Ex whose band I will see tomorrow night, and I will moan about him tomorrow. At least I *know* Pliny doesn't do sound at that club...

No points for guessing, neither. I'll just have the moderator change it. Unless that's you, Hilton, posting under an assumed name!

Kate's secret crush is Tony Blair.

...now i really want to know!

I am going to try this the next time this happens to me, for sure.

(Then again, he's actually the sort of nutter that would probably get off on knowing that his friends and other random girls were discussing his shaggability on an internet board. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

But no. Private lives should stay private because until I see evidence of otherwise, he's not here to defend himself and even if *I* choose to advertise my patheticness, he hasn't made that choice.

Choice of soundtrack -- Go-Gos or Fun Boy Three?

Nutter? Surely we would all love this(?) Oh no! Kate thinks I'm a nutter.

What he would not love would be the world knowing that he was lying in my bed moaning for most of Saturday night and Sunday morning. That's the sort of thing that can ruin a boy's reputation. ;-)

(the male attitude in a nutshell)

"zipless fuck" = buttonfly jeans?

What other reason is there to have sex? Cause it feels good? Most of the time, a decent wank is just as good. The only reason to have sex with someone else is to see your own validity reflected in their eyes. I'll be your mirror, reflect what you are, in case you don't know.

Yeah, I'm aware of how sick and fucked up that is. It sure explains a lot of my attitudes, doesn't it? Maybe things would feel different if I was in love. But that's even scarier than being in bed with a near stranger...

So what is bad sex, under those conditions?

Anyway...

Anyway yeah. The other less flattering take is that I wouldn't really care about their feelings, it's just that I wouldn't want myself moaned about as another man who just fucked and went.

And what Dan said.

Which is exactly what I was doing on Saturday night, thank you...

Are you curious or wanting?

uh, no.

there's one by the motorway in glasgow but I've never been inside. there's one at the end of byre's road...earlier this month, as the last resort, we went in there for a drink and it was very expensive and they had on tori amos the whole time. it was nice, though.

[...thinks...]

IT'S NOT A BINARY QUESTION.

Is that better?

001100?

010101?

And why have I only found ONE photo of him on the internet, and that one is totally shite and you can barely see him for psychedelic stuff?

OK, so I just got back from my first tour. What went wrong?

Or rather, what am I doing right? I couldn't get laid in a meat market if I wasn't in a band. But when we're on tour, I have to beat off boys with sticks. I wouldn't stay in a band otherwise!

"And Hilton is a total dick for not noticing how much you fancy him, and not appreciating your loyal affection."

I'm trying to have perspective here, but it's hard when you're bored and manic and can't sleep. I've blown this whole thing way out of proportion. Why? Because it's fun.

OK, last post about Hilton and now I will make an attempt to control my mania and not get this way about some boy. Even though I REMEMBERED THE SONG!!! I REMEMBERED THE SONG!!! I'm so proud. I wrote a song about him yesterday morning, but then in all the excitement about my job, forgot to write it down. And when I went to play it in the evening, it was wiped from my memory. But I woke up with it stuck in my head this morning. Complete. Arranged. Middle 8 and everything. Beautiful! Just like him!

ENOUGH! Slap me if you catch me perving on Hilton. This is to stop.

I originally read this as "Middle 8 Mile", so I thought Kate had started doing rap!