The Hal Hartley thread

I also like Surviving Desire for the opening bit as his most sharp.

Surviving Desire: Best thing in the world, ever, or just best film?

Flirt and Surviving Desire are perhaps the most inventive of his features, in terms of his staging/framing and the lovely symmetric logic of the plots.

I think Henry Fool was a selfconscious retreat on those terms; it was more novelistic in its approach.

I was first exposed to Hal Hartley via Flirt, which I hated with a passion. It wasn't until about two years ago, just before the aforementioned Hartley retrospective in Boston, that I really warmed to him and then some. I saw Flirt in that retro and my opinion was completely revised. The last third of Flirt, for one thing, is absolutely gorgeous on the big screen.

The earlier stuff had this balance between formalism and storytelling which the good new wave stuff had too, and by henry fool it seemed like it was sublimated into the story -- you could see it if you wanted to but it didn't need to announce its presence.

This is why Rivette got better with age and Godard worse, by the way.

(re the last part: Trilateral symmetry!)

I had the chance to see a few recent shorts--The New Math(s), The Other Also--in Boston last year and they are a far cry from the feature films.

Do you mean the thing at the Harvard Film Center, where Hartley introduced his films? I was at that show too! I liked the one short where he just filmed two people moving in slow motion with the camera out of focus. It was so completely controlled and perfect - I enjoyed seeing his obsessiveness get full play like that.

But the best part of seeing Hartley speak was when the local pinkos harassed him for using violence in his movies. Someone who had only watched one of his films (Amateur) thought it was shocking that he would allow someone to get shot in his movie. Hartley just seemed to think it was really cool how the scene looked.

(And it was the fakest-looking violence in film history, too - they didn't even spring for blood packs.)

My favorite Hartley movies: Trust, Simple Men, Henry Fool. And The Unbelievable Truth isn't as great but it really does it for me. The scene where the two girls are just riding around on the bike is perfect.

If you look at "the new math" on imdb, it says "If you like this film we also recommend "The Best of Borat"", which seems wildly incongruous.

"No such thing" is set in Iceland and that can only be wonderful.

Kurt: Do you resent your position as a woman in the motion picture industry? I'm sorry. I find you very attractive, and I'm interested in commodities.

Sofia: What are you talking about?

Kurt: A commodity is an article of trade. A product in the purest sense.

Sofia: What has this got to do with me?

Kurt: You're a product.

Sofia: I am?

Kurt: You're a commodity. Thomas tendered your body in exchange for money.

Sofia: So I'm an article of trade?

Kurt: Yes. A useful thing, in terms of classic capitalism. I studied economics. I know what I'm talking about.

sorry. been a while.

i'm making dumb snafus all over the place.

huppert was the nun. sofia was the amnisiac.

Sorry...don't mean to be a smart-arse. But I do so love that film.

Let's make lots of money.

My concern nowadays is that many reviewers feel that Hartley has had his day -- the hostile or indifferent reviews to No Such Thing (the Village Voice review was close to both!) suggest as much. I suppose this is only natural. I was always skeptical of the critics that said something like "Hartley's next film will be his breakthrough," whether that meant commercial-breakthrough or artistic-breakthrough; so perhaps what we're witnessing is his settling once and for all into a niche, like Philippe Garrel in France say.

Trust I liked becuz it was all in the dialogue and not in the framing except for the end -- the flat affectless acting had the effect not of schamaticizing the characters -- aka american beauty et al. -- but romanticizing them in a very NON condescending fashion.

I just bought the Surviving Desire DVD. (Everyone should check out http://www.deepdiscountdvd.com. I got the aforementioned DVD plus the double DVD of Lang's Nibelungen for $34 including shipping, and it arrived within 48 hours.)

"What do you want to do?"

"I want to write songs. Love songs. Really beautiful, timeless love songs. But I can't sing and I don't know music."

???

.....

I actually have no idea how old he is, but I imagine him as eternally youthful and bright-eyed.

Also- how good is Martin Donovan in hartley's films?

i think he's only good in hal hartley's films. that said, his limited level of goodness is still high enough to make him one of my favorites.

I also can't stress enough how much joy I still get from hearing the Jesus Lizard (one of my favourite bands) in Amateur.

hartley is at one stage or another on a project called "NOVA"

martin donovan is wonderful

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whew

(haha great xp)

but i like all his stuff to one degree or another really

i haven't made up my mind about it which is fine with me

it was almost universally panned by the critics when it wasn't simply dismissed

Stillman and Hartley aren't remotely comparable, are they?

other than that i think they are very different

When Tracer was staying at Ed and Suzy's, the room did actually spin into a Hal Hartley dimension. Tracer had a migrane and Suzy and I were a little stoned, so that probably provided the stilltedness. Ed was lying silently on the sofa, watching some documentary about ships with this weird slow ragtime as a soundtrack.

"Did you see him then?"
"I don't know, maybe."
"I saw him last night."
"Where?"
"I was sitting over there, quite late."
"We have to get rid of him."
"He ran away."
"We've been trying for weeks."
[silence except for ragtime music}

They were actually talking about a mouse, but I was charmed. I bet none of them remember it.

thank god we agree on something.

How was the Hartley short with PJ Harvey?

Eigeman and Posey were in that film Kicking and Screaming almost 10 years ago.

I made a t-shirt in college of Martin Donovan lying on the sidewalk from Surviving Desire. He was also good in Opposite of Sex, but that may be the only non Hartley film I liked him in.

I hope I never end up dating anyone who thought Last Days of Disco was good. This is one of my biggest fears.

The itching and burning!

are you trying to make me want it back?

www.possiblefilms.com

Resembling the hectic stylization last seen in The Book of Life (1998), Hartley’s newest digital feature invites us to consider a world where citizens are actually proud to be stock options whose market value goes up or down depending on their sexual activity. A world where having sex just because it feels good is against the law. A world where one’s credit rating determines everything.

A funny and thought provoking farce told in the rhythms of a sci-fi thriller, The Girl From Monday stars Sabrina Lloyd, Bill Sage, Leo Fitzpatrick, and Tatiana Abracos.

Release is scheduled for early 2005.

Ahem....

SIMPLE MEN SO PWNZ.
I really wanted to yell out, "YO ROBOCOP......3!"

was rbt burke filming ROBOCOP FOUR perhaps??? i hope not.

Hal's last MOVIE sucked SO HARD.

BIG BUMMER.

-- amateur!!st (-0...), September 27th, 2004. (later)

BECAUSE IT WAS BEYOND RETARDED.

xpost - or what ddb said.

i keep meaning to get S&M on dvd

ok so...was he running to teh plane or away from it?

this question was asked of James Urbaniak at the premiere of Henry Fool.

I see him around NYC fairly often.

BILL SAGE so PWNZ URBANIAK.

its shot so as to be ambiguous! cool huh

(reminds me of a similar last shot, that of mauvais sang--in which the running person is juliette binoche)

Hartley should have directed "Kids."

http://www.16-9.dk/2004-06/side04_bordwell.htm

A funny and thought-provoking farce told in the rhythms of a sci-fi thriller, The Girl From Monday stars Sabrina Lloyd from the hit CBS show Numb3rs, Bill Sage, Leo Fitzpatrick, and Tatiana Abracos.

???

no jody don't do it!!! turn back!!!

giving the finger to nyc for three months.

I still don't think I have seen a good film by him. I revived the ILF thread but no-one likes to post there.

It's holding up okay so far. Martin Donovan is beautiful.

"Are you nearsighted?"
"Yeah."
"Why don't you wear your glasses?"
"They make me look stupid."
"How do you mean?"
"You know, brainy. Like a librarian."
"I like librarians."

FAY GRIM

a new film written and directed by Hal Hartley

Fay Grim is a single Mom from Woodside, Queens, New York, manically preoccupied with raising her 14 year old son, Ned, so he won’t grow up to be like his father.

His father, Henry, is missing.

Seven years earlier, he accidentally killed a vicious neighbor and fled – never to be seen or heard from again.

Fay’s brother, Simon, is a popularly vilified and world famous poet (formerly a garbage man) serving ten years in prison for aiding and abetting Henry’s escape. In the quiet of his cell, Simon has had time to think about the tumultuous years of Henry’s presence amongst them – chronicled earlier in the film Henry Fool (1997).

Simon has come to suspect that Henry was not the ego-maniac garbage man, sex fiend, and failed literary genius he appeared to be. He suspects Henry’s apparently worthless autobiography – his “Confessions” – might just be some sort of coded history of international atrocities committed by various governments throughout the second half of the twentieth century.

Meanwhile, the CIA tell Fay her missing husband is dead – killed in a hotel fire in Sweden days after fleeing America in 1997. They have also discovered the French Government have two of Henry’s notebooks – drafts of his magnum opus, his “Confession” – and they insist the books contain information dangerous to the security of the United States.

The crafty and suspicious CIA agent, Fulbright, convinces Fay to travel to Paris and retrieve her husband’s property. She agrees to do this in exchange for Simon’s release from prison. But it turns out to be an enormous con-game which pitches Fay deep into a world of international espionage where she begins to learn of the astonishing rumors concerning her apparently worthless husband.

He is a tremendously wanted man. And she’s not so sure that’s a bad thing.

From New York City to Paris, from Paris to Istanbul, Fay Grim – a well intentioned but uninformed American – learns more about the world than any one person should know. And with each new turn of the screw, she is led deeper and deeper into the fantastic history of her misunderstood husband – the only man she has ever truly loved – the incorrigible Henry Fool – who is not only alive, but in more trouble than ever – the most wanted man on earth.

Can she get to him before the secret service agencies of four different nations try to kill him?

Can she save the hapless airline stewardess and part-time topless dancer Bebe Konchalovsky who has worked so hard to convince her of Henry’s importance to both their lives?

Will she inadvertently lead the CIA to the Afghan terrorist Jallal Said Khan whom Henry is thought to be advising?

And will she ever be able to go back home to Woodside, Queens?

We hope so.

Wow, that "Henry Fool" sequel... hot dog. I bet it'll be great. The world needs more Parker Posey/Hal Hartley action...

(IMdB says Jeff Goldblum plays "Agent Fulbright." You can just picture Goldblum in Hal Hartley mode... maybe all too well...)

I saw No Such Thing pop up as a weekend mid-day movie on UPN, right after Rush Hour -- shocking.

so, is it good or what?

so sad :(

http://film.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/Guardian/0,,1942286,00.html

Did anyone see Fay Grim. I watched as much as I could on Sunday, about 3/4. Sad to say that it wasn't very good past the initial 20 minutes. The acting seems to drop off too, Parker Posey looks a little shell-shocked in the scenes in the hotel, and the Jeff Goldblum character turns from inspired to despised through the course of a couple of dialogs and hard stares. Nice to see Elina Lowensohn though, even if she plays the same kind of confused stranger even back in Simple Men. And the name of the kid is a nice inside joke...

Anthony Lane panned it.

BUT James Urbaniak is very funny and looks like a geek god.

it's so bad

it's a real mess. just a bad idea that keeps getting worse the longer it goes on... I don't think I can ever watch another Hal Hartley movie again.

I thought it was really, really funny and enjoyable until Istanbul. Everything after that = completely awful.

I have never seen a H. Hartley movie I enjoyed or could even sit through.

parker posey is also basically unbelievably hot the whole time.

getting panned left and right. meanwhile adrienne shelly's "waitress" is supposed to be one of the best films of the year

what happend to him after Henry Fool? i mean,personally

and not in just that indie-with-eyeliner way that some qualify as hot, just like fundamentally smoking whoa-hot. it's probably the hair, with me.

Oh she's most defs hot.

also, parker posey is going to be in a sitcom! created by the woman who created gilmore girls! it could be the greatest thing ever.

so who needs hartley?

Parkey Posey was not hot at all in 'A Mighty Wind' tho.

If Waitress The Movie is anything like Waitress The Trailer, no thanks.

i don't think it is, from what i've read. but I could be wrong

I haven't seen the trailer, but the movie was about what you'd expect from hearing a generic description of the movie. I think the few really good reviews I've read have been overselling it.

waitress is very cute, very sweet, very nice and good-natured.

also kinda tv.

it's always bothered me that on my vhs copy of Trust, the synopsis says that Martin Donovan's character is 17 years old.

long island godard in making half-assed, mannered film non-shocker

parker posey gets hotter as she ages, i'll give you that. also, anyone giving Elina Lowensohn work is not totally beyond redemption

adrienne shelly's "waitress" is supposed to be one of the best films of the year

I suspect this is a sympathy vote, as the reviews lead me to believe it is reheated Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. Or even "Alice" (the only sitcom based on a Scorsese film).

I can't believe everyone hated Fay Grim! I thought it was best since Henry Fool (not that he's made much since then, but yeah.)

In order of me liking them (the one's at the top kind of bunch together and the two at the bottom are pretty much the only bad bad ones):

Trust
Henry Fool
Flirt
Surviving Desire
Amateur
Fay Grim
Simple Men
The Book of Life
The Unbelievable Truth
The Girl From Monday
No Such Thing

saw fay grim last nite and liked it alright you guys

I enjoyed Parker Posey and Jeff Goldblum (and most of the other actors actually) in Fay Grim, but Tombot OTM re: Istanbul. I hate movies where I'm nodding off during the third act and rewind to find out that all I missed was crap. If Hartley ever really gets it together again, I'll be shocked.

Parker Posey was so amazingly dopey in Fay Grim. The scene where she's wandering around the bathroom in Paris with toothpaste all over her face should definitely be in the Hall of Fame.

how does that movie compare to henry fool? henry is one of my favorite movies ever, and fay grim just looked so antithetical to the spirit of henry fool.

I haven't watched Henry Fool since I saw it in the theater. Based purely on tone I would say they're pretty comparable, but the subject matter is different. It's a light parody of espionage films, and seems to be paying homage to The Third Man a bit. But the Hartley movie it reminded me most of was Amateur.

It was occasionally really dumb, but I can watch Parker Posey stumble aimlessly around Europe for hours.

for yuks check out the box office of hartley's films on boxofficemojo.com. his "hit," henry fool, made about $1.3 million. the girl from monday didn't even get a real commercial release. fay grim made about $200,000, tops, worldwide. no such thing made like $60,000. or maybe less.

this guy will probably never get to make a feature film again. frankly, this doesn't bother me as i really hated fay grim and the girl from monday. something just curdled. i feel bad for the guy. i guess he gets to think that americans are stupid while he directs avant-garde opera in berlin.

oh and even the early films, which i really like, never made more than like $700,000. it's amazing he was able to make a feature every year for about a decade.

I think I've liked every Hartley movie I've seen, even the newer ones.

if his films had been rereleased to dvd with higher visibility, and there had been some kind of partnering urban outfitters friendly merch, this guy would totally get a renaissance.

You don't play pool, you shoot pool!

this guy will probably never get to make a feature film again.

Moving the Arts (2010 – In Production)

Directed by
Atom Egoyan
Hal Hartley
Zhang Ke Jia
Laetitia Masson
Julio Medem
Christian Petzold

i don't know if i'm that cynical about him making more though.

yeah, that's an anthology film

none his movies have the charm or perception of waitress

rip

ah, didn't realize
xpost

Hated Waitress so much.

i didn't see it, but i walked out halfway through one of shelley's earlier directorial efforts (was it "sudden manhattan"?). then i walked a mile to get a hamburger, ate it, then walked back just in time to greet my friend emerging from the theater.

the film was obviously influence by hal hartley's films, especially in the milieu it depicted and the clipped, mannered line deliveries. but it was awful.

really horribly horribly sad what happened to her.

this lawsuit seems gratuitous and offensive though:

Suing construction company
Shelly's husband is now suing the contractor, Bradford General Contractors, who had hired Pillco. He argued that Shelly would still be alive if the contracting firm had not hired Pillco. He also seeks to hold the owners and management of the building liable for her murder. The suit reads: "Pillco was an undocumented immigrant..." The newspaper article further added: "as were his co-workers". The story then went on to relate that "it was in Bradford General Contractors' interest not to have "police and immigration officials called to the job site" because that would have ground their work to a halt".

the only other of hers ive seen is bob & zelda. it was okay but tbf dont really remember much abt it.

even the early films, which i really like, never made more than like $700,000. it's amazing he was able to make a feature every year for about a decade

I don't really know enough about the film industry to know what these kinds of numbers imply (or even if they're gross or net), but: weren't the first few films funded for television? I can't remember specifically, but I feel like they were made via some kind of PBS / American Playhouse type thing. (So I'm assuming the economics are totally different and there's some level of grant money in the mix.)

im almost certain that the early stuff was mostly self-financed (i think they cost like $50K to make?) even if it turned up on pbs or wherever later.

surviving desire (a mini-feature) was, i think, made for american playhouse. don't think that one had much of a theatrical release at all. the other ones, as far as i know, were made as indies. some self-financed, others a mix of self- and production-company money. henry fool may even have been miramax? and flirt and several of the subsequent films were largely european-financed, i think.

i presume the earliest films made back their money (or close to it) on home video. i mean, before henry fool i think amateur was the biggest-budget of his movies and i can't imagine it cost more than $1.5 million or something.

but my point was simply that even at his highest-profile, hartley has never had anything like a hit even by indie standards (or what were once indie standards). and now he basically has no audience whatsoever.

you can buy no such thing dvd NEW for $4! in fact that seems to be the list price.

and flirt and several of the subsequent films were largely european-financed, i think.

yah he has some fellowship & is living & working in berlin now. during the last decade he was teaching at harvard i think? so not really making movies. its hard to say how big his audience was for the early 90s movies - didnt they only play @ festivals? like even in the 90s im assuming most ppl who watched his movies didnt see them in theaters.

im not really a big fan but idk - feel like hes got an okay legacy (didnt richard brody or somebody just do a retrospective? shld just look this up) & cld still be making movies if he wanted to. i mean i doubt he cld get the money to shoot a sci-fi epic in 3D or w/e but im sure he cld still be making movies on his old scale if he wanted to

ok production info so far as i can tell

unbelievable truth - self-financed (distributed by miramax)
trust - mix of indie companies (distributed by fine line, new line's "boutique" division)
surviving desire - PBS (no american theatrical distribution) (can you imagine something like this being produced by PBS now?!)
simple men - similar mix of indie companies to "trust" (distributed by fine line)
amateur - mix of american indie and french (sept cinéma/UGC) financing (hence huppert participation) (distribution sony pictures classics)
flirt - pandora (us indie) and NDF (german film group) (distributed in us by cinepix, longtime softcore porn/exploitation/art film distributor mostly of foreign titles; they tried to movie into amerindies e.g. daytrippers, heavy, love and death on long island but folded in 98)
henry fool - shooting gallery (remember them?) (distributed by sony pictures classics)
book of life - this was made for french TV, i think it only saw release in the us as a video although had some repertory screenings
no such thing - co-produced by coppola's american zoetrope and the icelandic nat'l cinema industry (!) (distributed --barely-- by mgm/ua who i believe had a deal w/coppola)
girl from monday - self-financed, not given real commercial run (released on DVD by hartley in collabo with some video company)
fay grim - mix of financing from small indies and HDNet, given day-and-date distribution and DVD release by magnolia

interesting!

he cld still be making movies on his old scale if he wanted to

not sure about that!

he was visiting at harvard for just a year or two

this lawsuit seems gratuitous and offensive though

nothing gratuitous about negligently hiring a murderer

yeah but what could they have done to prevent it? not hire undocumented workers? a documented worker could just as easily reveal himself to be a violent killer.

so after henry fool wins screenplay award at cannes (or was it berlin?), he gets attention of coppola, then three or four years later w/ coppola support (though apparently they did not get along at all and supposedly FFC held up the film's release a bit) makes one of the most poorly-received indie films of recent memory that basically is beyond D.O.A.

he could probably make another unbelievable truth for $75,000 but who would watch it? and would he want to do that? anyway i wouldn't mind seeing his recent shorts which he's putting out on DVD soon.

weird to think that it was 16 years between badlands (a film hartley admires and which was financed in a similar way to unbelievable truth) and unbelievable truth ... and 21 years between the latter film and now. i am old.

i sound like i'm obsessed with box office and stuff, i'm not. there's just something sort of fascinatingly dispiriting about the reception this guy has gotten over the past 15 years.

why do u think its "dispiriting"? i mean it feels like hes reasonably well-regarded & influential u or nrq probably know a lot more abt his 'academic' rep but tbqf his movies arent partic good.

i like his movies a lot. well some of them.

just dispiriting in that he so obviously is sincere and smart and committed to his profession and eager to work but with each attempt he just becomes more and more marginal to the point that i can hardly think of an american director of any note (who isn't aged) that has less of an audience at this point.

sorry for bad grammar

they are "partic" good, albeit "quirky" and a bit uneven

"a bit"

""""

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'

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http://kindercore.com/words/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/white-square.gif
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.

Lunch with Hal Hartley.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Exclusive-Lunch-Two-Hal-Hartley-/120622477650?pt=Tickets_Experiences&hash=item1c15a8f152#ht_2449wt_1137

No bids so far. If I lived in New York I'd probably bid.

Reviving just so that we have Stillman, Van Sant and Hartley all together. Any others?

Also $1,100 for lunch with Hal. Not bad.

tonight some drunk said i looked like james urbaniak : /

The book we know, Angus, will be
a thing of the past in a few years.

Novels, articles, newspapers,
Will all be downloaded onto a PC.

You're telling me to get
out of the publishing business?

We've got to reinvent the publishing
business for the electronic age.

I'm sorry to disturb you, gentlemen.
There's a wound up garbage man...

that seems to have written a poem.
A long poem.

And I recall how in last month's
meeting you stressed the need...

for us to be on the lookout for
more marginalized verse from...

un-established quarters
of the American scene.

-Did I say that?
-You did.

Twice.

Okay, Laura. Make an appointment.
Sometime next month.

Right-o.

So, how is the digital revolution
is going to help me sell books?

Why can't I see him now?

Because he's a very
important man, and...

you're not.

Be reasonable.

Why?

I don't think people are gonna
prefer reading books on televisions.

-It's not television...
-It's interactive.

Angus, look. We have
a number of charts here...

In every home in America, the PC
is gonna be where the TV used to be.

And it'll be a direct connection
to all forms of media.

An unprecedented transformation
in American social life.

We'll become more informed, more
literate, increasingly productive...

and, well, like I said,
we have a number of charts.

Lunch with Hal Hartley.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Exclusive-Lunch-Two-Hal-Hartley-/120622477650?pt=Tickets_Experiences&hash=item1c15a8f152#ht_2449wt_1137

No bids so far. If I lived in New York I'd probably bid.

― Duncan Donuts (Ned Trifle II), Wednesday, September 22, 2010 1:55 AM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i missed this. so depressing.

it's amazing how little people care about this dude now compared to his relatively high profile as a major pre-tarantino amerindie guy. even fewer care about his new films. i saw 'meanwhile'--it is pretty awful.

Only saw The Unbelievable Truth and never gave him a second chance.

I don't think people are gonna
prefer reading books on televisions.

Amateur has HELLA violence and also the best dialogue with isabella huppert ever.
Kurt: Do you resent your position as a woman in the motion picture industry? I'm sorry. I find you very attractive, and I'm interested in commodities.

Sofia: What are you talking about?

Kurt: A commodity is an article of trade. A product in the purest sense.

Sofia: What has this got to do with me?

Kurt: You're a product.

Sofia: I am?

Kurt: You're a commodity. Thomas tendered your body in exchange for money.

Sofia: So I'm an article of trade?

Kurt: Yes. A useful thing, in terms of classic capitalism. I studied economics. I know what I'm talking about.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, January 31, 2003 11:59 AM (9 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

kind of amazing to me that this kind of dialogue was ever in fashion

i mean... i liked it at the time too... and maybe i still would? it just has like NO inheritors at all. hartley at his peak seemed as popular as jarmusch/lynch/other amerindie 80s/90s guys but has had any detectable influence on anyone?

nobody that i can think of! maybe some very maginal indie filmmakers. adrienne shelley made two unwatchable pre-waitress features that were unsurprisingly very hartleyesque.

kind of amazing to me that this kind of dialogue was ever in fashion

― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:39 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feel like a big part of his appeal was that you're all I don't know how this dialog is working but it is

i thought 'girl from monday' would be really dire but it has some fun ideas iirc

still never seen 'fay grim' but might watch it soon

i'm scared to go back to simple men. i really liked it as of 2003 or 2004 or something. it probably still holds up reasonably well.

the thing about hartley is that his stylistic inventiveness is what really does it for me, and his films since no such thing have like no visual interest at all, despite their efforts.

overall thinking about him makes me realize how long ago the 90s were. damn.

He really ahould adapt DeLillo, maybe The Body Artist, because I would imagine the same things I don't like about their work are the same quaities that would appeal to others.

gonna see Simple Men tomorrow for the first time in aaaaaaaages. Thanks, thread!

I suspect this is a sympathy vote, as the reviews lead me to believe it is reheated Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. Or even "Alice" (the only sitcom based on a Scorsese film).

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:34 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how quickly we have all forgotten travis starring tony danza.

overall thinking about him makes me realize how long ago the 90s were. damn.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:44 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah... i remember meeting him after the premiere of simple men at tiff. that must have been... a really long time ago :/

all you have to do is study Martin Donovan's hair.

Donovan gave lovely perfs in The Opposite of Sex and The Portrait of a Lady -- kinda like how Jeremy Irons said Cronenberg taught him how to act onscreen on Dead Ringers.

i don't know, even pre-tarantino hartley was very much an acquired taste and not ever approaching even jarmusch popularity or fashionableness (?) nevermind the big shakers in amerindie at the time like the coens or spike lee. i think what happened is his movies became much harder to even see or hear about (for larger reasons - death of amerindie cinema, miramaxification, and death of film culture and film crit in general), he stopped making good hal hartley movies, and he never really learned to make anything else. somehow he managed to disappear from the radar and remain (ime) completely unknown to younger people even more than whit stillman despite continuing to make movies (genuinely shocked to find there's only two post-henry fool features i haven't seen, and since one of them stars sabrina lloyd i'm actually tempted to watch it). i can't say i really liked any of them or even henry fool that much tbh (not enough to want to watch it again now in any case). god did i love trust in high school though.

xposts galore

overall thinking about him makes me realize how long ago the 90s were. damn.

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist)

I never saw Meanwhile or even knew he had a movie in 2011, anyone like it?

First I've heard about this too. Then again, Fay Grim was bad enough to make me not care all that much about what he did next.

I was amazed to learn that Simple Men was shot in the Houston area (which subs for Long Island?).

i don't know, even pre-tarantino hartley was very much an acquired taste and not ever approaching even jarmusch popularity or fashionableness (?) nevermind the big shakers in amerindie at the time like the coens or spike lee. i think what happened is his movies became much harder to even see or hear about (for larger reasons - death of amerindie cinema, miramaxification, and death of film culture and film crit in general), he stopped making good hal hartley movies, and he never really learned to make anything else. somehow he managed to disappear from the radar and remain (ime) completely unknown to younger people even more than whit stillman despite continuing to make movies (genuinely shocked to find there's only two post-henry fool features i haven't seen, and since one of them stars sabrina lloyd i'm actually tempted to watch it). i can't say i really liked any of them or even henry fool that much tbh (not enough to want to watch it again now in any case). god did i love trust in high school though.

― balls, Sunday, October 28, 2012 11:06 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is reasonably otm, including the last sentence, which applies to me as well. i remember dragging a friend to see it to an otherwise empty, except for a cackling old lady, capitol cinema in toronto in grade 9.

I feel like this guy should be Canadian

thank... you?

The stretch from The Unbelievable Truth through Amateur is wonderful. I regret nothing.

The scene in Fay Grim wherein Parker Posey brushes her teeth is to die for.

i don't know why but i find the wreck that has seemingly become this man's career perversely fascinating or at least hard to look away from. i guess i just wouldn't have figured that this guy would end up releasing 60-min digitally-shot (cheaply) features on his website for download, features that seemingly nobody wants to see (i could barely find any reviews of 'meanwhile'). i mean ed burns, of all people, is doing something similar but actually making something of a living on it. maybe HH has a bigger devoted fanbase than i know.

there's also the way he trades on the same things and same "stars" that he did 15–20 years ago. i mean the "poster" for "meanwhile" boasts "D.J. MENDEL IN A FILM BY HAL HARTLEY" like that's gonna resonate with more than twenty or thirty people at this point. and he sells soundtrack albums for films past and present on his website too.

it's sort of like coming across some former coworker at a law firm working the late shift at a perkin's. you're glad to see them and glad to know they're still around but also thinking "what the hell happened."

maybe i'm being harsh.

Only when you compare him to Ed Burns

i do wonder how indie filmmakers whose successes are few and far between pay the rent. some make commercials, i suppose. but like, how does terence davies keep a flat?

probably from the terence davies convention circuit

he does second unit on the bond films.

yeah i assume a lot of them just scrape by

Hartley works at a Perkins in Orlando.

i liked 'fay grim'! playful espionage is kindof a cool angle & i just think it was really nicely put together. the last 1/3 is def the weakest, hard 2 actually have to resolve all that set up in any meaningful way

From the Home Theater Forum:

Coming in January (from Olive Films)

Hal Hartley's TRUST
REMASTERED IN HD FROM THE FILM’S ORIGINAL NEGATIVE - HD TRANSFER SUPERVISED BY DIRECTOR HAL HARTLEY

Includes
Upon Reflection: The Making of “TRUST”
Interviews with Adrienne Shelly, Martin Donovan, Hal Hartley and Line Producer/Assistant Director Ted Hope
Interviews conducted by DJ Mendel
2005 | 19 Minutes | Not Rated

YESSSS!!!!!!

OMG, that is *great* news. I dig plenty of Hartley's films, but the one all-time, bury-me-with-it joy of his career is Trust.

yes

but like, how does terence davies keep a flat?

think he teaches at the National Film School and other places

I really liked meanwhile. But I apparently have questionable taste.

Some more good news off the back of the lovely Olive Films blu-ray for Trust - The Unbelievable Truth and Amateur are now scheduled for blu-ray release by Artificial Eye on 13 May this year.

good news everybody! http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/260302407/ned-rifle

Anyone see Meanwhile?

yeah, i liked it.

i kickstarted the crap out of this latest btw.

cool to see martin donovan in Homeland

he had a great role on boss, even after they killed off his character. was bummed that show was cancelled.

(3 days left in the kickstarter btw -- hal sez even if they don't hit the target he'll use the pr momentum built up to fund the film another way)

roundup on Ned Rifle

http://www.fandor.com/keyframe/daily-toronto-2014-hal-hartleys-ned-rifle

it's interesting that the only projects he gets more than a few thousand bucks to make are part of his henry fool/ned rifle/fay grim franchise.

i wonder if hartley has actually picked up new fans in the past decade or so, folks who not only like his new films but have been rediscovering the older ones via DVD/Blu-Ray/etc. i discovered hartley pretty early in his career (ca. simple men/surviving desire) and like a lot of other folks sort of got off the bus during his dry spell in the early 00s. i have a grudging respect for no such thing, but the ones he's made since then have mostly lost me -- the particular kinds of formal/visual and verbal play i admired in the early seems to calcified into a few oddball gestures. i'm probably being unfair, and i admit i skipped "meanwhile" which some people i know liked a lot. in any event, my own solipsistic perspective would lead me to think he's a guy who has just flat out lost his audience, but the continued attention paid to him by film blogs/websites hint that maybe he's actually picked up some new fans. anyone here in that camp?

btw i started this thread 11.5 years ago! when i was young!

i mean, his films used to be chock-full of inventive and unexpected bits of staging, framing, etc. whereas some of the more recent ones seem to be content to set the camera on an angle and run through a few permutations of angular compositions. i guess i feel like even though certain aspects of his writing have gotten if anything more refined, his camera style seems to have gotten coarser. and when you're talking hartley you're talking 80% camera style (for me anyway).

actually, i lie: as i state way above, my first encounter w/ hartley was flirt. i didn't like it. i think i also saw trust in the mid-1990s and was a little ho-hum. but i watched them all again in the late 90s/early 00s and was impressed. just about the time his career took a kind of critical nosedive. so i guess i'm actually in the 2nd generation of hal hartley fans.

btw this aspect of a mid-2000s hartley film now seems a little prescient, maybe?:

Resembling the hectic stylization last seen in The Book of Life (1998), Hartley’s newest digital feature invites us to consider a world where citizens are actually proud to be stock options whose market value goes up or down depending on their sexual activity. A world where having sex just because it feels good is against the law. A world where one’s credit rating determines everything.

just farsighted

it's funny that he stuck w/ the same kid to play Ned Rifle

actually now that i think about it, i did see meanwhile! and forgot i saw it! i can't remember a thing about it, but i say it was terrible above. L:(

He should make Simple Men II

Simple Mens

HH and the gang look back at Henry Fool (and earlier) upon the release of Ned Rifle

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/03/hal_hartleys_epic_oral_history_the_henry_fool_trilogy_parker_posey_and_the_real_sage_of_90s_indie_film/

Saw Ned Rifle in the theater today. Only two other people in there. Aubrey Plaza kind of runs away with this every chance she gets. And HH plays up her looks and body every chance he gets. Urbaniak is really funny.

God, I forget this guy is out there still making movies. He's so synonymous with the 90s for me. Henry Fool (which is great ) was the last movie of his I've seen. Ned Rifle worth checking out then?

Mini review:

This is a sequel to a sequel to Hartley's biggest movie, "Henry Fool." Or as he puts it, the third in a trilogy. Regardless, this offers more of the familiar Hartley-isms we've come to expect. Literary monologues, dramatic pauses, sudden turns of the head, musical interludes, attention to the body. Speaking of bodies, Plaza plays up hers and Hartley takes advantage of it. A couple of gratuitous shots but hey, this modest movie has to sell some aspect of itself to someone, right? James Urbaniak is deadpan great reprising his role as Simon Grim, a garbage man turned poet. Even Hartley veterans from his salad days show up: BIll Sage, Robert John Burke, Martin Donovan, and Karen Sillas all put in appearances. No Elina Lowensohn or Adrienne Shelly though : ( Ultimately something about this film seems like a swan song for Hartley, maybe because of the extended cast. The protagonist of the movie's title, a long haired college student, is tolerable, as is the plot, which hinges on the drama inherent in father / son and mother / son relationships when the father is absent.

Ned Rifle is pretty great. There's hartley-being-experimental stuff like girl from monday, meanwhile, etc where he's trying ideas and experimenting with the medium, then there's hartley-doing-hartely, and this is the latter. blocking, dialog, etc. very mannered and very seamless. the plot feels like it has less heft than the first two in the series, and the characters don't carry the same heaviness and emotional weight. partly i just don't think aiken and plaza can handle it, and partly everything in the film moves a bit too quickly and neatly compared to something like amateur, where the lines get room to breathe. this plays more like period farce, nods to his-girl-fridayisms.

i mean... i liked it at the time too... and maybe i still would? it just has like NO inheritors at all. hartley at his peak seemed as popular as jarmusch/lynch/other amerindie 80s/90s guys but has had any detectable influence on anyone?

― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:40 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's the same with Peter Greenaway IMO. Both of them at their peak made truly great work... does it detract from their achievements that their DNA did not get passed down? (Sincere question).

even if he had an influence on someone would we see it as "hartley-like" or would we see it as "godard-like"?

It's the same with Peter Greenaway IMO. Both of them at their peak made truly great work... does it detract from their achievements that their DNA did not get passed down? (Sincere question).

I don't think so. Greenaway, at least, is great regardless. But, it's interesting you bring him up! Because I think a case could be made that both Hartley and Greenaway made their way into Wes Anderson.

both Hartley and Greenaway made their way into Wes Anderson

now that you say it, i see it

Wow... Yeah!

Good thing: Hal Hartley's (@PossibleFilms) Kickstarter for an HD boxed set of the "Henry Fool" trilogy: https://t.co/Uy6dOjoeie

— James Urbaniak (@JamesUrbaniak) June 23, 2017

I was a huge Hal Hartley fan in high school and college, but hadn't watched any of his movies in ages. (I did check out "Ned Rifle" when it premiered, and quickly bailed... more recently, it was nice to see the episodes of "Red Oaks" he directed.)

Realizing that some of his stuff was spread across a hodgepodge of streaming services, I decided to revisit his first few films. I thought they might feel dated to me after such a long time, maybe stilted or "cute," or like old records I loved as a teenager that just sound corny now. But I was very pleasantly surprised.

I didn't have strongly specific memories of "The Unbelievable Truth" -- at the time, I think I regarded it mainly as a warm-up or rough draft for "Trust," given the similarities in plot, setting, characters, etc. Turns out it was an absolute pleasure to watch, and a great film on its own. Contrary to my expectations, its stylistic "moves" still felt fresh and effective (even as I found myself half-remembering how many scenes would play out). This is sort of the "purest" Hartley film, in a way?

I laughed a lot, at all those moments of odd theatricality that I thought may seem stiff and obvious in retrospect, but instead put me right back in the moment. The scene at the diner table with the repeated, circular dialogue... the dejected boyfriend, still standing in the same spot hours later... the borrowed socket wrench pulled from a purse as an improvised weapon... this is all great stuff. Even the slightly overdone final scene -- last lines of dialogue straining a bit for thematic resolution, a final shot that could maybe have been tightened up -- was endearing, like a virtuosic amateur finally hitting a few wobbly notes.

Getting into "Trust" a few weeks later, I didn't have the same positive feeling at first -- I watched this one SO many times back in the day, I thought for sure I wouldn't be able to view it with fresh eyes. It's also a somewhat heavier movie than "The Unbelievable Truth," with a tighter plot... while the debut sort of meanders amicably along, jumping ahead in time every so often, "Trust" is tight and precise, taking place over just a few days. But I was quickly drawn in, and realized why I loved it so much in the first place.

I think "Trust" is even better and more accomplished than "The Unbelievable Truth" -- even though it lacks the first movie's shaggy charm, and takes place mainly indoors, and a somewhat "real"-feeling Long Island; instead of "T.U.T."'s appealingly desolate suburbia, populated by a small group of characters who keep encountering each other, like in a play.

"Trust"'s screenplay is incredibly good -- so well plotted, each scene leading inevitably (and precipitously) to the next, hardly ever feeling forced or "written." Each character wants something, in every scene, and that "motivation" constantly drives the dialogue and action (it feels silly to write that out, but you forget about how it works until you see a movie that really does it). What really carries it over the top, though, is the acting -- by the whole cast, but especially Adrienne Shelly and Edie Falco. They're just so good.

I came away from both these movies, particularly "Trust," feeling like I appreciated them on an even deeper level than I did as a young person -- which was extremely welcome. I wasn't expecting these re-watchings to trigger much more than stale nostalgia, but instead I found these movies are the real deal, their clarity undimmed by the intervening decades.

Sorry to write so much, I got carried away...

I just saw Martin Donovan in an episode of Another Life last night.

I am fearful of watching Trust again because of how much I loved it in college. Also I totally forgot about the Surviving Desire shirt I made once (re-reading through this thread).

I haven't seen any of Hartley's work since Henry Fool -- Amateur/Flirt/Fool all felt like a dropoff from the first films, and then the reviews scared me away from everything after Henry Fool. Presumably it can't all be bad.

He's one of those people where you think, "I'll catch up on his work eventually" and then twenty years pass all of a sudden.

Although I'm excited to rewatch Trust after what you've written, Morris

Bill Sage is in American Psycho as one of Bale’s office buddies comparing business cards,,, great scene

Also I totally forgot about the Surviving Desire shirt I made once

I tried to find a way to watch "Surviving Desire" (it was the first Hartley thing I ever saw, when it aired on TV), but had to settle for some key scenes on YouTube. Without wanting to judge the whole hour by those scenes, I'll just say my reaction was more in line with what I had been expecting. It's cute....

I haven't seen any of Hartley's work since Henry Fool -- Amateur/Flirt/Fool all felt like a dropoff from the first films, and then the reviews scared me away from everything after Henry Fool. Presumably it can't all be bad.

I liked "No Such Thing" when it came out, and tried revisiting it as part of this rewatch, but wasn't feeling it (especially in contrast to those great early films). I still think it's worth checking out, you probably need to stick with it and let it do its whole thing.

Trust was one of my favorite films in my college years as well. I haven't watched it in a long time. I think the last one I watched was Fay Grim, which is worth a watch just for Parker Posey's performance, and the fun of watching a sequel to a movie that most people didn't watch or like (I liked it tbh).

Is Thomas Jay Ryan any more bearable in Fay Grim? His scenes in Henry Fool are up there with Treat Williams in Prince of the City for sheer unwatchability.

Henry Fool was a complete mess from my memory of it.

That... was not my experience

I just rewatched the trailer. Yeah, Thomas Jay Ryan is unwatchable in this. It looks like it was his first role.

Gotta watch that one for Urbaniak though

Interviews! Recent-ish: http://www.filmwaxradio.com/podcasts/episode-522/

Also, I forgot how handsome Bill Sage was, jesus

TJR only has a minor role in Fay Grim.

https://open.spotify.com/track/1PFMTUMiwXEQ2NATFVxhEc?si=mQIXusd6SGqrcIBwdKIvTw

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/260302407/where-to-land-again

I could donate $5 but probably not $90,000
cool to see bill sage and Robert burke though, maybe Hal should make simple men II
I saw Bill walking his dog in the west village a couple years ago

The guy is truly an “independent filmmaker,” respect to that.

I know he’s done TV, but I wonder if he was ever offered the chance to direct a corny RomCom or something, and turned it down…

They reached their goal fyi

Oh cool!

Glad he reached the goal. Seemed like it raced up from 50% funded in just the last week or so, so wondering if people were just delaying their commitment? Looking forward to the 2cd package of his music.

I'm not sure if many people were aware until this week. I didn't even know the campaign was back on until a few days ago.

Wow, he was down $90k 3 days ago! Maybe Turkey was involved