Classic Don Cherry

NED MUST DIE.

Forsberg? He's no Borje Salming. But then again who is?

Yeah. To him the Euro players are either wimps who like to take dives or dirty fighters. So the swedes usually go into the latter category.

Im just trying to remeber who the first big three or so were who defected from the Red Army team. Its funny to call them defectors now days.

(Ulf.)

So what did he do now?

he's cheerleading for TO's new evil overlord.

fuck this fucking asshole. as antexit just said to me, tomorrow is becoming the town in back to the future 2 when biff takes over.

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/1207ford.jpg

“Put that in your pipe you left-wing kooks,” hockey commentator Don Cherry told a shocked inaugural meeting of the new city council, blasting “left-wing pinkos.”

Cherry was Mayor Rob Ford’s pick for a “special guest” for the pomp-filled ceremony. Cherry turned up in a pink-and-white silk jacket and patterned tie that was eye-popping even for the famously flamboyant TV star.

The co-host of Hockey Night in Canada’s Coach’s Corner put the chain of office around Ford’s neck — something normally done by the city clerk — and then sat stoically, clapping as each of the 44 councillors got their ceremonial oaths of offices and posed for photos with Ford.

While Cherry is famously outspoken few, it seemed, were ready for the three-minute blast he delivered after being asked to make some remarks.

“I’m wearing pinko for all the pinkos out there that ride bicycles and everything, I thought I’d get it in,” Cherry said to a sharp intake of breath, then laughs and some claps.

“What’d ya expect, Ron MacLean here, to come here?,” he said, referring to his buttoned-down foil on Coach’s Corner.

Cherry, a Ford supporter who had not met the new mayor until Tuesday’s event, said he was “befuddled” by criticism of Ford’s choice of him.

“I’m being ripped to shreds by the left-wing pinko newspapers out there — it’s unbelievable. One guy called me a jerk in a pink suit so I thought I’d wear that for him too today,” Cherry said.

He said he was made fun of for going to church and called “maudlin” for honouring Canadian troops.

“This is what you’ll be facing, Rob, with these left-wing pinkos — they scrape the bottom of the barrel.”

After the ceremony, a nonchalant Ford said didn’t know that his special guest was going to use his airtime to attack political opponents.

“I didn’t know,” he said. “I’ve been a huge fan. Don is exactly what you see is what you get.”

http://www.ibiketo.ca/blog/open-letter-mez-don-cherry-stop-being-asshole-cyclists

Having taught hundreds and hundreds of you-peoples over the years, I can confirm they participate fully in all Remembrance Day observances.

http://globalnews.ca/video/6151701/you-love-our-way-of-life-don-cherry-criticized-for-comments-on-immigrants-poppies

(I love watching the people in close proximity to these kinds of train wrecks--you can see Ron McLean die a little when his eyes cast downward on the words "you people.")

Oops--MacLean. Who is evidently dealing with not confronting him.

I have worked with Don for 30 years, and we both love hockey. But last night, I know we failed you. I see hockey as part of what unites us. I have the honour of travelling across our country to celebrate Canada's game, and our diversity is one of our country's greatest strengths.

— Ron MacLean (@RonMacLeanHTH) November 10, 2019

PSA to my people: when "Don Cherry" is trending on Twitter, it's not what you think/hope it is.

— Nate Chinen (@natechinen) November 10, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWsRz3TJDEY

promising thread titles that turn out NOT to be on ILM

... be back in a minute

Don, let me introduce you to “#youpeople”

My great grandfather, Hira Singh, who served in WW1 & WW2 under the British.

We honour all who served. #RemembranceSunday pic.twitter.com/pNeBlJMC4R

— Jagmeet Singh (@theJagmeetSingh) November 10, 2019

I feel like McLean should have said something in the moment on air tbh.

*MacLean

Poppy racism, that's a new one

(xpost) MacLean does too--I posted the wrong part of that tweet.

"I want to sincerely apologize to our viewers and Canadians. During last night's broadcast, Don made comments that were hurtful and prejudiced and I wish I had handled myself differently. It was a divisive moment and I am truly upset with myself for allowing it."

That's a tough spot. I don't watch hockey broadcasts, so I don't have any sense of MacLean, but he seems uncomfortable in the clip. You want to think you'd do the right thing and confront him; in same place, I can't say for sure that I just wouldn't stare blankly and wait for the moment to pass.

staring blankly and waiting for the moment to pass is his entire gig

If I, with the life I have now, were for some random reason on Hockey Night in Canada and Cherry started spewing this shit, I would almost definitely stare blankly and wait for the moment to pass. If I had been co-hosting a national TV segment with the guy for decades, I think I would either make it my gig to confront him when he spews this shit or find another gig.

But whatever. I don't watch Coach's Corner with anything resembling regularity but I expect this is probably worse than your usual Cherry moment so maybe MacLean really was in shock.

Either way, it's Cherry who was being an ass on a few levels so.

That's the main thing--I'd hate to see it turn into a Ron MacLean story (can't see that happening).

The amazing thing, that non-Canadians may not know, is that he does this on the CBC. The analogy's not perfect, but it would be like him doing it on PBS.

I can't emphasize enough his specific sitting and staring role. There was a public outcry when Ron's CBC contract renewal negotiations fell through in 2002. We had to pay up. There is no one else who can sit there and stare blankly this convincingly.

(I don't watch this crap either and only catch it at some family gatherings... any big hockey fans I know are long sick of it. Can't believe it is still on the air.)

I don't know how much public funds go into all this now that Rogers has the NHL contract (and some sort of arrangement with CBC for a Saturday night airing).

CBC does not remind me of PBS. More NBC or one of those. There's loads of ads for one thing.

BBC is probably the closest analogue?

I saw that #blackface is trending again on Twitter. Afaict, it's entirely because of tweets displaying the impeccable logic below. There may be something to that "Rethinking Polarization" article.

Everyone thinks @CoachsCornerDC should lose his job, just weeks after Canadians re-hired Trudeau following American media breaking his disturbing obsession with #blackface. Strange days indeed.

— Blaise (@boehmerB) November 10, 2019

oh shit let's get them both gone!

i suspect the cbc has been waiting patiently at least 15 years for him to die. i mean he'll be 86 in a few months

On December 7, 2010, Cherry attended the inaugural meeting of Toronto City Council, where he placed the chain of office around incoming Mayor Rob Ford's neck.[45] Cherry was asked to say a few remarks and he opened by stating "I'm wearing pink for all the pinkos out there that ride bicycles and everything, I thought I’d get it in." He then went on to state that he had "been ripped to shreds by the left-wing pinko newspapers out there" and ended saying "And that's why I say he's gonna be the greatest mayor this city has ever, ever seen, as far as I'm concerned! And put that in your pipe, you left-wing kooks."

i suspect the cbc has been waiting patiently at least 15 years for him to die.

I think that's true, and the situation also reminds me of Trump insofar as I'm sure the CBC is deathly afraid of viewer backlash if they fired him--cf. 99% of Republicans in Congress.

How did he get to number 7 in the official national hierarchy? Embarrassing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Canadian

and then CBC went on to make two three-hour movies about his life. Yeah they sure hate him. Just an embarrassment of a public broadcaster.

I'm not sure if love or hate enters into it. He brings in dollars, he has a fanatically loyal following they don't want to stir up, and--again, I think that's right--they'd probably be very relieved if he just disappeared.

What is the basis for thinking the latter thing, though?

I'm not even that big of a hockey fan but lol that he beat Gretzky in that poll.

https://d1c4rk9le5opln.cloudfront.net/1645583fc424ef1b443a7362fb5730fe.jpg

huh no classic Don Cherry on here yet .. so

What is the basis for thinking the latter thing, though?

You mean that they'd be glad to get rid of him? Seems obvious to me--he's a public relations nightmare. In the context of Fox, his antics would be encouraged. But--conceding I'm hardly an expert on the CBC, and pretty much never watch them--they are a left-leaning network, no? His popularity resides with viewers who probably despise the CBC, and to anyone who supports the network, he's an embarrassment.

Maybe I'm living in a Barbara Frum universe that no longer exists.

they are a left-leaning network, no?

Maybe? Right-wingers seem to say so. I don't know that I've been convinced of it. They give air time to David Suzuki but also to Kevin O'Leary and, well, Cherry. You could make a case that public broadcasting is an inherently left-leaning enterprise but I don't think the Ceeb is like something like NPR (or even, say, TVO or the local campus radio stations). The argument about Cherry's base seems circular: his popularity obviously resides with viewers who are viewing him on the CBC so do they really despise the network that is bringing them the personality they love? The people who support the network are obv supporting a network that gives Cherry a platform.

Speaking as a first generation Canadian immigrant, the poppy remains exotic as anything other than a source of delicious seeds, even though one of my great grandfathers fought in WW1. I also get the sense that it's a considerably less ubiquitous symbol in Quebec.

do they really despise the network that is bringing them the personality they love?

they'd watch HNIC/coach's corner no matter who broadcasts it (and a different network might well spare them the pinko apology stuff)

My own guess--no evidence--is that Cherry lovers put up with the CBC as a venue because they have no choice, but that given one, they'd much rather be watching him elsewhere. Don't xenophobic right-wingers hate any government-subsidized enterprise, even if, in this instance, it's serving their own interests?

How did he get to number 7 in the official national hierarchy? Embarrassing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Greatest_Canadian

― jmm, Monday, 11 November 2019 14:03 (one hour ago) link

This X 1000. Imagine if PBS ran a Great Americans series and John Madden made the top 10, ahead of Thomas Edison.

This is confusing.

The Hockey Night in Canada brand is owned by the CBC[1] and was exclusively used by CBC Sports through the end of the 2013–14 NHL season. Beginning in the 2014–15 NHL season, the brand is being licensed to Rogers Communications for Sportsnet-produced Saturday NHL broadcasts airing on CBC Television as well as the Rogers-owned City and Sportsnet networks. Rogers had secured exclusive national multimedia rights to NHL games beginning in 2014–15, and sublicensed Saturday night and playoff games to CBC.[2] This sub-license agreement runs through the end of the Rogers deal with the NHL.

So CBC owns the HNIC brand and is licensing it to Rogers; Rogers has the rights to NHL broadcasts and is licensing Saturday night games to CBC. I'm just wondering how much leverage CBC still has over Don Cherry. Can CBC elect not to air Coach's Corner but still show the rest of the broadcast?

xp tbf, john madden was actually a successful coach

Well, sure, but it is CBC that is broadcasting him.

xps Again, I don't really see CBC as an equivalent to PBS. For the analogy to work, Madden's show would need to be on PBS in the first place. If anything, ranking him so highly seems a bit self-congratulatory.

(Poppies are also worn in the UK/Aus/NZ, I thought? Plath wrote about them when she was in London.)

I can't vouch for Australia & NZ, but they're definitely a thing in the UK. Seems to be a white anglo Commonwealth custom.

That CBC poll was voted on, it wasn't a self-generated ranking. There was some nobody DJ who got onto the list because he organized his listeners to vote for him en masse.

They’re v proud of the Great War

I mean, I think I get what you guys are saying, insofar as conservative voters are generally more likely to want to defund the CBC and may also be more likely to agree with Cherry's sentiments. I'm just hesitant to want to group all these things together, esp since I'm not sure that the reality of CBC programming actually backs it up. xps

https://o.canada.com/news/majority-of-conservative-voters-like-the-cbc-poll

(I used to use that list in grade 6; the students would pick one person and prepare a slide-show presentation. I always made sure to point out that the DJ was a phony pick--which I didn't know at first--and that Cherry was despised by lots of Canadians.)

I'm just hesitant to want to group all these things together

Agree with that. I'm thinking that Cherry's base, or whatever you want to call it, might have the same relationship to self-identified conservatives that Trump's does to more old-fashioned, Bush-type Republicans.

I think the fact that government funding amounts to a comparatively minor percentage of PBS's revenue compared to CBC's might actually mean that they feel less obliged to 'cater to all sides'? xps

There closest American analogues I think aren't on TV: NPR and New York Times. Hopeless centrism that only looks "pinko" to reactionary conservatives. What American TV is closest to that? Certainly you can draw a smaller scale parallel of CBC/Cherry to CNN/Trump. They have to act outraged, but they like the ratings.

They do maintain a consistent voice across TV, radio, and web journalism. My comparisons aren't totally apples to oranges.

There is no US equivalent to a dominant nationwide network - virtually the only terrestrial radio option in some locations - that receives most of its funding from the govt and the rest from commercial advertising, with a public interest mission that also includes entertainment and sports.

Cherry is definitely a kind of Trump analogue in that he represents a certain cartoonish Canadian-ness (hockey, pugnacious, provincial) the way Trump does the carny-barker capitalist version of an American.

You have to hope they know BBC. xp

The duality of Canadian-ness:

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5355164.1573431806!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/coach-s-corner-don-cherry-ron-maclean-nov-9.jpg

A source within the CBC newsroom is saying Don Cherry has been fired.

— Ken Campbell (@THNKenCampbell) November 11, 2019

His removal from Sportsnet idms being widely reported: https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2019/11/11/1_4679550.html

Incidentally, I'm puzzled as to why this report leaves out his words "you people that come here", which seems key to making his meaning plain.

*is

good. I didn't really follow this story much since this didn't really seem worse than many other things he's said over the years and assumed it would blow over just like everything else.

I kind of wonder if he would have been fired if this was CBC's decision to make rather than Sportsnet's.

Bravo. Maybe the military can become a paid sponsor!

Speculation has been that Brian Burke, the former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Anaheim Ducks, may follow Cherry in "Hockey Night In Canada's" spotlight segment.

insult to injury; burke is american

and hasn't coached a day in his life!

guess there won't be any more of the detailed analysis of coaching strategy the segment is so known for

If Coach's Corner was still the CBC's he would have been fired with his in women journalist fiasco a few years ago.

Also I think Coach's Corner was popular because... it happened during the freakin Saturday night local hockey game.

I still daydream of meeting him and saying 'hey here's the guy who never won the cup'.

bye bitch

Did the CBC not still have the rights to HNIC when Cherry made the dressing room comments in 2013? Or is this about something else?

I think they didn't want to mess anything up prior to the sale.

always been surprised he lasted on air as long as he did

Hey, Don Cherry @CoachsCornerDC. We heard that you were fired. It’s not good!

Come to Russia, we need an analyst for Dynamo TV who could talk whatever he thinks. We love old soldiers. And we will make a nice suit!

We hope you agree. #WeAreDynamo pic.twitter.com/5WiwikHZgQ

— HC Dynamo Moscow (@dynamo_ru) November 12, 2019

This is how I choose to remember him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tOjXSnpPk

guessing that he'd have survived if he'd been willing to apologize

Incidentally, I'm puzzled as to why this report leaves out his words "you people that come here", which seems key to making his meaning plain.

This report also does the same thing:
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/don-cherry-fired-coaches-corner-1.5355764

His defence is a little puzzling, though:

"I did not say minorities, I did not say immigrants. If you watch Coach's Corner, I did not say that. I said 'everybody.' And I said 'you people,"' Cherry said.

"Irish, Scotch, anybody that's newcomers to Canada, and they should wear a poppy to honour our dead from the past, whether they're Scotch or Irish or English, or where they come from."

He did say "you people that come here" and did single out Mississauga and downtown Toronto vs "the smaller cities" (and "you people" is by definition distinct from an "everybody" that includes the speaker) so... he could have been talking about Anglo-Saxon and Celtic immigrants but how would he know from looking at non-poppy wearers in Toronto whether they were immigrants or not, unless he was just going by race?

"You love our way of life, you love our milk and honey"... how often in the 21st century are white immigrants from England talked about in those terms?

yeah, never.

im an immigrant to canada and I'm obviously not addressed by don cherry's rant because i come from the uk and my skin is pasty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sExSTLqpNoU

He did specifically say 'Scotch', though. All bases covered.

if only he could be fired again!

Point taken, sorry, let me withdraw that. I was trying to account for the sense that he was specifically targeting racial minorities, but yeah, his comment definitely does cover immigrants in general.

I don't think you were wrong.

Also the obvious point that Don is missing is that saying immigrants are greedy people who hate veterans isnt less offensive if it includes "everyobdy"

I've once been asked, as a test of my commitment to the federation, whether I'd be willing to DIE for Canada if a major war were to break out. Because every Canadian who wasn't born abroad would surely give their life up for it, by default.

(It does need to be said that this 'serious concern' was raised by a Frenchman who is 'uncomfortable' with the notion of dual citizenship.)

lol

i don't really fancy dying for the nation state i was born in so I'm not sure it'll be incumbent on me to die for canada when i bother to get my citizenship sorted

I die for Canada every winter day.

It's about as sound as the 19th century French doctor Prosper Lucas's Theory of Impregnation, which posits that a woman's first lover is bound to leave an indelible, biological mark upon her. So much so, in fact, that if she goes on to have children with another man, her offspring will ultimately resemble her first lover.

Also I never have a loonie for a poppy and where do you buy them nowadays? I always got mine at the hospital.

Do you wear a poopy?

Immigrants are opening dollar stores en masse to hoard loonies away from the reach of old stock Canadians that poppies may remain unpurchased and unworn forever.

It's about as sound as the 19th century French doctor Prosper Lucas's Theory of Impregnation, which posits that a woman's first lover is bound to leave an indelible, biological mark upon her. So much so, in fact, that if she goes on to have children with another man, her offspring will ultimately resemble her first lover.

― pomenitul, Tuesday, November 12, 2019 9:47 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Posts vmic :)

as an american the whole poppy thing has always seemed so weird and fraught and ive always been really glad we dont have it in the states

lol you can blame Zola for that one.

xp

The poppy might be strange but certainly Americans are on a whole other level with their celebration of the warrior class.

as someone from the uk who has only lived in canada for 7 years I'm not sure if the whole poppy thing here has followed the trajectory of the uk poppy thing, which was:

until the iraq war - remembrance day is a thing. some people wear a poppy

which then turned into:

which politician can wear the biggest poppy?, buy a poppy shaped pizza, a man in a giant poppy costume, where's your fucking poppy?, no one gets served in the pub this weekend if they're not wearing a poppy, every football team better have a poppy emblazoned on their shirt on the nearest weekend to remembrance day, etc.

Yeah, it's a case of once a year vs. every few milliseconds.

xp

Can't say I've witnessed that kind of one-upmanship (dare I call it… virtue signalling?), jim. But like I said upthread, I think it's demonstrably less of a big deal in Quebec.

In England last week, it's been a wondrous joy again watching who does and doesn't wear a poppy, who wears it with gusto or visibly against their will etc etc. Then there's the sellers on the street, in Oxfam, the bogus sellers and frauds. And commerce doing a 'who is the holiest' measuring contest while trying to not be too on the nose (yet still being too much on the nose) about it. It's an atrocious spectacle.

americans didn't fight at vimy ridge or (for the most part) get buried in flanders fields, so the wwi/armistice day stuff isn't quite as resonant. plus we already had memorial day, which seems to have arisen after the civil war

Pure anecdotal and possibly speculative, but what struck me most was when we were waiting in between trains, we got some grub at a pub near St. Pancras in London. Three guys walk in, all in suits, and while sitting down they all removed their poppies; like civil servants finally done working for the man after a long day and removing it just to be able to breathe again, before ordering a pint.

The poppy as a symbol for what it is supposed to stand for just doesn't cut it anymore. It creates whole new divides imho.

several xp:: yes obv not comparing the respective levels of war lust between these great nations, just thankful to not have to deal with the specific social phenomenon of the poppy & poppy-adjacent controversies.

honestly pretty surprised that a similar thing never caught on in the states, we are very psychologically primed for it, for sure. closest usa equivalents i can think of might be the iraq war era fad of displaying yellow 'support our troops' magnets on our beloved giant automobiles, and a post-9/11 media obsession with politicans wearing or not wearing little american flag lapel pins, but neither of those got that intense and eventually faded away as americans' interest in the war waned.

You've 'Support our troops' and 'Never forget' and the star spangled banner covering a lot of that ground though, right? It's not the same though, I agree. It's probably to do with your last sentence, "as americans' interest in the war waned", which is... kind of a thing.

there's a minor trend in the usa of troops 'secretly' returning from deployment and 'surprising' their families at sporting events. i don't even have words for how disgusting i find it

I thought that stopped after one too many videos of 'soldier makes surprise return and has his dog jump on him' videos from before the youtube era :(

Some notable moments in the Tucker Carlson interview. For one, Carlson makes no attempt to deny that Cherry was talking about immigrants (and nor does Cherry) when he celebrates and defends his words. Secondly, Cherry himself seems a bit dumbstruck when Carlson says that Cherry's critics are fascists with no feelings. (I saw a comment on Twitter that Cherry got to feel what it's like to be Ron MacLean). Lastly, lol @ this San Fran-born, New England private school-educated scion of privilege's ostensible affinity for the traditionalism of the people in northern Quebec and rural Ontario.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6103177588001/#sp=show-clips

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJN7fpmX0AEFgse?format=jpg&name=large

Cherry got to feel what it's like to be Ron MacLean

lol

Oh wow, the CBSC has now been overwhelmed with complaints about another TV host (that I've never heard of before now tbh) responding to Cherry because she insulted white people and hockey players, apparently: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019/11/14/broadcast-council-overwhelmed-by-complaints-over-ctv-correspondents-comments-on-don-cherry-hockey-culture.html

(#BoycottCTV is trending on Twitter and I'm thinking I should either stop reading Twitter or get better at ignoring whatever is trending.)

The feeling when you are happy people are boycotting CTV but you also don't agree with their reasons.

It seems like the guy has, if anything, become more guarded over time, although the most striking part of this exchange might be realizing that there was a time when CBC journalists were willing to actively confront an interview subject when he shoots off:

Don Cherry with Eric Holling, 1990 pic.twitter.com/s4qKbGcrTZ

— Nathan Caranci (@NathanCaranci) November 14, 2019

Yeah I remember when he mocked lgbt culture and LA for not being ‘tough enough’ before a Kings game in the early 90s I believe by posing a super effeminate hockey fan. They had replayed as one of those good ole Don clips.

https://blankforms.org/events/the-great-trip-rare-and-unheard-music-from-don-cherry/

Homonymy strikes again.

every update i'm hoping for a RIP.

Failing that, I'd actually be cool with turning this into a thread about the Other, Good Don Cherry and drowning out the existence of our national fuckface altogether.

oh lol, wrong thread

It's the Canadian shibboleth we wish we didn't have.