TS: Trader Joe's v Whole Foods

The original Whole Foods was far from Yuppy. It was a little, smelly, hippie store with a bunch of dodgy looking loose food bins and a nice juice bar.

I got a job offer from Whole Foods but got a better one the same day so declined. I hear their not as fun a place to work as they've gotten more corporate. . .

I dig World Market more though, on the basis that I can get Crunchie Bars (well, Violent Crumble, but its the same thing) there.

the $1.99 wines at TJ these days are mostly Chilean and Argentinian with an Australian thrown in there once in a while. What are they going for in WDC?

The frozen shrimp and cereals are also good deals.

This is very true. Eventually my family pulled in enough cash to skip the commissary, though. That or we stopped eating or something.

The Charles Shaw $1.99 wine is apparently mostly a California thing. Shaw himself sold out of his winery business a while back but another company, Bronco, recently bought up the name from him and went to town. There was and is a huge wine glut and so the guy who had bought the rights to the name had the bright idea of making Charles Shaw a more or less semi-official TJ wine sold at cheap as hell prices in order to actually make some money off the glut. It's not a great wine, as you might guess, but it is a very good one that goes well with meals.

There's a couple of urban legends springing up around the Shaw label already -- go to this snopes.com link for a debunking as well as more details about it:

http://www.snopes.com/business/market/shawwine.htm

Big fucking crap pile re New York (and New Jersey): wine can only be sold at licensed liquor stores. That's right, no grocery store wine. (NJ restricts beer sales to package stores, too!) Grocery store wine and booze is, believe it or not, one of the big reasons I want to move to California.

Yeah, when I moved to California I was shocked to see alcohol being sold in grocery stores and drug stores. What a concept!

District of Columbia: Liquor can only be sold at authorized liquor stores. Grocery stores can apply to sell beer and wine, but if a chain has more than one store in DC only one of those stores can sell it. UNLESS (according to a new regulation that was specifically passed to coax Whole Foods to open a third DC store) the store spends $500,000+ in building or renovation costs.

Virginia: Liquor can only be sold at state-run liquor stores. Grocery stores and drugstores can sell beer and wine.

Montgomery County, Maryland: Liquor can only be sold at county-run liquor stores. Supermarkets can apply to sell beer and wine, but are subject to a law similar to the one restricting DC grocers. There are also "delis" that sell wine and beer.

When I went to Annapolis several years ago I did a double take when I saw liquor in a drugstore -- I'm just not used to that degree of liberty in alcohol sales.

Anyway, Whole Foods has nice house brand peppermint tea, but Trader Joes is handier to reach for me, so they win. I'm sure there are lots of yuppies up in the northern part of the U district who like having their WF up there, but it's damned annoying to reach from downtown. Oh, how I love Seattle traffic jams...

But as far as TJ and WF are concerned - here I am stuck with only WF - and that's a 45 minute drive from home. But I do love their cheese and breads - and their selection of that Mountain Sun/Walnut Orchards natural fruit juice. And their salad and soup bar is pretty damn good, too. When I go home to California I usually do a "big trip" to Trader Joe's and Cost Plus, buying dry goods/canned/not fresh - and then I ship them here to Florida (or lug them across the country in my car). Shipping is expensive, but I think it's worth it. When family and friends come to visit I usually send them a "Wish List" of TJ products.

More to the point, TJ wins for the cheap La Brea Bakery bread, their spinach pasta, the amazing cheap selection of cheese and the giant $1.99 tubs of fresh basil.

my favorite (revealing) anecdote from shopping there (on my parents behalf, thanks!): i went in to get some snacks and there were two check-out lines available. the woman in front of me had a tube of pre-made polenta. she kept glancing anxiously around the store, and especially over at the other check-out line, and also at the label of her polenta. the nervous energy contained in this person could have powered the harsh neon lighting that illuminated the store. she finally, after shooting nasty looks around one last time, switched over to the other check-out line in a huff. even though the lines were of equal length, she must have felt that she would save time at the other line. she was wrong, and i got out ahead of her, even though i didnt care one way or the other. i cant help but thinking that the people who go into this particular store are, in general, people who try to hard, and for no good reason.

if trader joe's is like a lobotomy, then whole foods in arlington is the opposite. this is the preserve of the overeducated and hyper-self-aware NOVA and NWDC suburbanites. everyone in there is pushy, their social skills having been eroded by years of suburban living. this is a store for x-hippies who have somehow over-rationalized thier giving up as some sort of personal progress or pragmatism, and, to avoid letting their self-doubt manifest itself, they instead over-compensate by constantly trying to manifest their own sense of self-importance without actually saying anything at all. the store itself is huge, and for all of its pretence, whole foods sells all sorts of stupid shit. for evey cook who goes in there for the high-quality produce, ten people go in and stuff their carts full of craftily named upmarket versions of the same shit that one can buy in a regular supermarket, ya know, the ones frequented by, like, black people and stuff (I am NOT accusing everyone of racism, but the DC area is very segregated...). whole foods uses the "healthy" and "conscious" image it portrays to, for the most part, sell lots of cookies and pre-made food, much of which seems to be fried. Lastly, according to an article in the Washington City Paper, there is only one unionized store in the entire chain. one of the stores in NOVA is trying to unionize, and the management has been distributing "quizzes" which seek the opinions held on unions by employees. this is possibly, or may even be totally, illegal.

I can't hope to afford anything at Whole Foods.

Like Gourmet Garage-- they nicked everything but the hawaiian shirts from TJs, but with double the prices.

Geeta: TJs in the suburbs only. I have driven up to Westchester for the sole purpose of shopping there.

The artsy folk there don't consider themselves to be "yuppie enough", besides the organic food trade is served by the little "mom and pop" grocers.

Oh, but they're SO CLOSE. Its not like I'm comparing a Butterfinger or Clark to a Crunchie. =)

I'll have some friends of mine investigate that finding of authentic Crunchies in LA. Do they have Double Deckers or Lions? If so, then I'm having a case shipped to CT ASAP.

-
Alan

You ever dined at a free standing chinese "restaurant" that serves food from a bullet proof booth? The ambience is unbeatable.

*please refer to TJ as Trader's Joe; it's better that way.

speaking of anti-employee... what's this I hear about a class aciton suit by former workers against Peete's Coffee?

Go Berkeley Bowl!!

Does NYC still have the Gourmet Garage? Man, that place is expensive.

Neither!

I've never actually shopped in a Whole Foods but my wife used to bring me food from there while I was in hospital so I just associate it with pain. Trader Joe's is just seriously grossing me out as of late (Mochis excepted).

Maybe Trader Joe's if Whole Foods internet shenanigans cost him.

Whole Food's CEO's I mean.

I've never seen a Trader Joe's but I don't really like the name.

But you've heard of it now! =) see upthread

Both will be welcome respites from the garbage they sell at Albertsons in my neighborhood.

that's true. I used to go to Albertson's!

Adam, what is grossing you out there???

Their stuff goes bad so quickly!

My mother was in the TJ's in Portland and they asked her if she'd been to the NYC one. "It's huge!" they said. "There are like... dozens of check out counters!"

Well, I finally went to it and the odd thing is that it actually isn't that much bigger than the Portland ones... although yes, they do have far more cashiers. And during the rush hours, they aren't nearly enough for the job.

Still, TJ forever. Whole Foods only if you need certain fancy ingredients (although even then I've been too often disappointed by what they don't have).

TJ's bread does go bad far too quickly.

I have heard of it, thanks to ILx. :)

Wait, who is Whole Foods buying out, Trader Joe's or some other hippie joint?

xxpost

it's the lack of preservatives.

I went on Sunday evening, by this morning milk had gone bad so I went for toast - moldy bread! And it isn't me - this doesn't happen with other places.

xxp!

Also I like the fun novelty items but don't you just grow distrustful of these things after a while?

btw, who has eaten "mangosteen"? was trying to explain this to alex last night! I don't think he fully believed me that it was different to mango!

I prefer Trader Joe's, because I can go there and buy wine, hummus, frozen foods, cereal, soy milk, OJ, baby carrots, bread, salsa, cereal, and other stuff for about as cheap as I'm likely to find it anywhere -- but I do like Whole Foods for a select few items, like Roastaroma tea, vitamins, soap, and the deli section (overpriced, of course, but pretty good for healthy on-the-go meals).

I had some great wine from TJs last night actually - also thanks to alex.

Sam, Whole Foods is buying out Wild Oats.

do you buy those little packs of carrots and celery with the dips? Have you notices how these celery/carrots are always slightly weird and deformed? These packs are where the MUTANTS get sent.

TJ's bread does go bad far too quickly.

Do you not refrigerate bread?

I think that is it for me. Trader Joes is MUTANT food!

xp Yes, I do!

Trader Joe's has always kind of freaked me out. I've bought cheap wine there as specifically suggested by oenophile friends, but the preponderance of pre-packaged foods doesn't fit my cooking style and compared to WF's, their cheese selection is paltry. Now that I have Faletti's/Delessio's nearby, I rarely go to either TJ's or WF.

SHOULD you refrigerate bread? not sure there is a consensus about this.

Wild Oats

Okay, that one I haven't seen/heard of.

I have to say, I don't really like the concept of pre-packaged, sliced produce in bags. It seems wasteful. If I'm at TJ's and I really don't have much at home, I'll buy a few of their free-standing bananas or apples, but by and large, I do my produce shopping at a produce market closer to home.

compared to WF's, their cheese selection is paltry

Also true.

yes, I used to go to farmer's market for produce and supplement with grocery shop, but I haven't had much time to do this lately.

It's not really a farmer's market, it's a grocery store that specializes in produce. I mean, they have other stuff, too, but the produce section takes up most of the store.

try the chicken breakfast sausage!

Spencer is right about this. It's good.

xp thanks for clarifying, jaymc. It's as if I was standing right there, in your grocery store that specializes in produce!

Try this on for size, then: it's called Harvestime. There is a little man outside who sells paletas out of a cart for $1. He wraps them in a paper towel for you.

A "little" man, you say? Yes, that's vivid.

I only go to TJs for the meat/seafood, honestly. It's the nearest/cheapest place I can get organic meat, cuz they don't have any meat products at Rainbow, and Bi-Rite is a) too expensive, and b) makes me sick.

Whole Foods is too far away, and even if it was closer, its still just too expensive.

About your height, actually.

What's that, little man? A paleta? Why yes, I don't mind if I do. I was just hanging out here at Harvestime and you have given me something I didn't even know I needed! Is that a paper towel? How charming!

sorry, i was somewhere else for a second there

I have to say, I don't really like the concept of pre-packaged, sliced produce in bags.

this is OTM and the central reason I don't buy any produce/veggies from TJs. We get plenty of that stuff from a CSA anyway.

x-post

refrigerate bread

*shudder*

I have never heard of refrigerating bread.

A girl I was seeing when I was living in Paris scolded me for refrigerating bread. Then I married a girl who won't let me do anything but. Girls!

What's wrong with refrigerating bread? It lasts longer.

Yes but it loses a lot of special bready quality. It becomes for toasting only.

I haven't noticed. I think the only time I haven't refrigerated bread is when I lived in the UK and I had to keep my bread in a little locked cubby-hole in the dorm's communal kitchen.

Have you been to Bristol Farms? Expensive, but high quality.

Bi-Rite is amazing, but super-expensive. I prefer Whole Foods to TJ's. Too much packaged stuff at TJ's. Plus, at the Whole Foods in downtown SF, you can get Andante Creamery cheeses (yum!). However, TJ's house-brand scotches are amazing deals.

That reminds me of when I was at a friend's apartment, and his girlfriend was all, "*****, you know that we do NOT refrigerate tomatoes in this house!"

I lived in the UK and I had to keep my bread in a little locked cubby-hole in the dorm's communal kitchen.

I did this too! Didn't you have a shared fridge?

I also think refrigerating bread is kinda weird, but I've gotten used to it. I don't do it at home though.

I was housesitting for my friends and they had bananas in the fridge and I wanted to leave them a note saying "THIS MAKES THEM GO BROWN MUCH MUCH FASTER" but it seemed tacky.

yes bananas must not be in fridge

If cost were no object, I'd probably shop at Whole Foods exclusively. As much as I like TJ's, I'm having trouble thinking of something I can get there that I can't get at Whole Foods (or at least a reasonably good equivalent).

I don't really like TJ's, but I'm about to move very close to one so I'll probably end up there a lot.

Andronico's is the best for me, but it is a little expensive.

I did this too! Didn't you have a shared fridge?

I honestly don't remember. I must have, though, because of milk and the like. Maybe there wasn't enough space for controversial items like bread?

bananas belong IN THE FREEZER

adamrl OTM about Andronico's - the only grocery store I will travel across the city specifically to shop at

Maybe there wasn't enough space for controversial items like bread?

I see what you're trying to do here

Oh. I don't.

I'm sorry you didn't have a nice time in Lancashire! =D

massive x-post

Bread should be frozen rather than put in the fridge. Slice it to sizes you think you're going to need then put the paper bag in a sealed plastic bag and freeze the whole thing. Something about the temperature of a refridgerator changing the sugars in bread that doesn't happen when it's frozen.

Nick - OTM. And, unless its fresh out the oven, since when is bread NOT BETTER when toasted?

I use my toaster at least twice a day. And I don't even eat that many carbs.

TJs is good for lunchmeat, too. The Columbus Salame Co. lunchmeats are awesome. But, given no budgetary concerns, I would prolly shop at Bristol Farms forever. Seeing as how there's one like three blocks from my house.

Other than that, I'm pretty much a Pavilions guy. Better quality stuff at Vons prices.

Its an embarassment of riches in South Pasadena - TJs, Pavilions, Vons, Bristol Farms all within a mile. And a kickass farmers market every thursday and some decent carnecerias in Highland Park.

almost all prepackaged bread makes me want to gag these days. there are entirely too many grains in orowheat wheat bread now, and they are invariably chewy and plasticy tasting, and all the bread smells like rubber or some shit. I'd resorted to white bread so I don't get a mouth full of pellets.

and yes, bread from TJ's lasts about two days. and almost everything from there tastes like cardboard. i still shop there because I'm broke (I live behind an andronico's, which is partly why I'm broke)

I've gone to Wild Oats since it came to Pasadena, for anyone not familiar they're like Whole Foods except they at least make an effort not to gouge you at every turn. That one isn't big enough to be a WF anyway, I hope they don't convert it at all. The only place i buy produce other than farmers markets. I go to TJs specifically for prepackaged shit and fish and wine and flowers and dried fruit and other shit that strikes my fancy. I go to Vons for everything else. Bristol Farms if I get a bonus, that's some fine meat.

I have to say, I don't really like the concept of pre-packaged, sliced produce in bags. It seems wasteful.

and so insanely overpriced, even compared to Whole Foods. who makes their margin on fruit? i do get the 3 color grapes sometimes those are bomb.

Whole Foods is the favorite, but for cost reasons we shop at Central Market, which is the chain-ish local analogue. Price pitched right between CM & your standard big chain place.

btw, who has eaten "mangosteen"?

I took a picture of the mangosteen sign once. For obvious reasons.

I have never heard of refrigerating bread.

-- Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:50 PM

My girlfriend refrigerates bread. It freaks me out. She has never heard of not refirgerating bread. The things you learn when you move in with someone...

LIL' HOOS aka the steendriveress

I don't know, I suppose "lil'" probably seems patronizing.

i grew up in a bread-refrigeration household. i leave the artisan olive/garlic whatever bread out now but after a couple days i get skittish. what is bread for if not to toast anyway? i toast everything. I never ever heard of not refrigerating tomatoes until a month ago when some foodie interviewed on npr said it was the worst thing you can do to a tomato.

sandwiches! bread is for sandwiches!

i toast sandwich bread! i get the creepy ezekiel kind that's kind of dense without toasting though

I buy my nuts and dried fruit at Trader Joes. It has the best prices around on those. Also, it sells extra virgin olive oil and balsmic vinegar for cheaper than elsewhere; the quality is so-so, but I am not a gourmet. Their powdered Vitamin C is $10/lb, easily the cheapest way to take it. There are a couple of other decent bargains I am forgetting.

Whole Foods seems egregiously overpriced to me.

TJ is so friggin cheap. yes esp compared to Whole Foods. also everything at TJ tastes delicious, like all of their own brand snacks and stuff? amazing. Whole Foods rocks at fruit and some of their prepared stuff is amazing.

what is bread for if not to toast anyway?

i prefer non-toasted bread most of the time. to me, toasting is only for subpar bread (like cheap white hamburger rolls, which always taste better grilled) and bread that's gone a little stale.

i didn't know anyone refrigerated bread!! sick fucks

i sometimes refrigerate sometimes don't.

excess bread i freeze.

I usually don't fridge my bread but was told that the TJ bread had to be fridged because it lacked something something preservatives.

hahahahaha

fridge as a verb could really take off

i generally freeze sliced bread and thaw/toast as needed (just refrigerating sucks the taste/texture out of it, but not freezing). if i buy a baguette or such, i chomp that sucker down pronto.

what's the rule on fridging baguettes?

i resisited trader joe's for years, stores were too poorly laid out & overcrowded. but i eventually $aw the point. i don't eat much prepared food, where they really shine, and their fruit/veggies section is pretty lame, so whole foods wins on quality points alone.....

shine = trader joe's snacks/frozen stuff

Whole Foods has good samples. I like to linger in the cheese section. I ignore the "one per customer" signs.
Also, my SO is employed by Whole Foods, so I have a 20% discount card. Also, Whole Foods gives domestic partner benefits, so I can go to the doctor and the dentist.
But Trader Joe's is great for certain things.
it's funny how TJ's open at the same alarming rate as WF's, usually across the street.
Whole Foods is opening new stores at some crazy pace like, two a month?

The Whole Foods on Kensington High Street is mind bogglingly expensive -we spotted a tasty looking salad bar and were about to get a box from it until we noticed the pricelist - £1.80 per 100g with the smallest container being 1kg. The free chocolate brownie samples were heavenly though.

haha I haven't been in yet but I was wondering what the london whole foods would be like--they're already very expensive IN THE STATES, so I can only imagine what a uk version would be like (the cost of the salad bar sounds about what I expected).

When I lived in Chelsea (the other one), WF was my local supermarket (ok, there's a pretty nasty d'agostinos further west (9th ave? 10th?). I was forever bitching about paying in excess of $3 for a can of stupid chickpeas. As mentioned above, tho, the salad bar was a good lunch source.

TJ's I like a lot, but, yeah, not for produce at all. My little brother is now working at one in San Fran and, although it closes at 9pm every night, is there until 1am cleaning, restocking, and getting drunk on 'wine tastings' with his fellow employees.

Whole Foods is commonly referred to as Whole Paycheck - that's what you're gonna spend if you shop there.
The Chelsea (NYC) WF's has a guy who directs people to the correct check-out line, i think. He's sort of the stage manager for the drama of standing in line waiting to cough up $800.00 for two cans of chickpeas.

I do enjoy Trader Joe's hawaiian shirt motif, and the bell that they ring when the check-out lines get too long. The store manager is the "captain" and the employees are "first mates". Maybe it's regional; I hope not, because it's very hilarious.

How could this thread have gotten this far with no mention of FAIRWAY? What is wrong with you people?

One of my most favorite places in the world, but it's only in NYC ;_;

I was forever bitching about paying in excess of $3 for a can of stupid chickpeas.

huh? a can of whole foods own brand chickpeas is 79 cents.

Do I remember wrong? It was five years ago, 'tho I'm pretty sure I remember buying cans of beans or chickpeas or similar and they only had a hugely overpriced organic kind (maybe 'cause five years ago organic was rarer and more expensive?).

not sure when the store brand was created, but the prices are very competitive. iirc, the organic store brand canned beans are only $1.69.

I refuse to have my long-held resentments ruined by something as petty as FACTS!

i understand. despite the fact that buying the store brand pantry staples, eggs, and basic dairy products at wf ends up being cheaper than doing so at our gross neighborhood chain store, my bf still rails against the place as a palace of decadence.

I avoided whole foods for major shopping for a long time, then went two years ago and I guess they were having a sale because it was really cheap. I went back two months later and it cost twice as much. their prepared foods for things like thanksgiving and stuff can't be beat though, we've done it twice.

Wild Oats is the only one we have here. I guess it will soon be a Whole Foods? That's sad because as mentioned up-thread, WO tends to be a bit more reasonable than WF prices (but not by much).

I think TJ's would do well... from what I remember they were pretty cheap.

Maybe it's regional; I hope not, because it's very hilarious.

No, it's everywhere. The TJ's I shop at also has a painting of Abe Lincoln and Debra Messing around a pole near the front of the store, since it's located at the corner of Lincoln and Grace, haha.

There are two TJs in the north end, one of which is a couple blocks away from my college. There are no Whole Foods in the north end. Easy enough.

Went to Trader Joe's the other week with a friend... We're wandering around picking up dinner stuff, and while we're in the dairy section this lady starts talking to me, about how her mom lives in California and has a Trader Joe's near her house and loves it and yadayada... and she's going on and on about how she was just down there visiting and they went to the Trader Joe's and they had these frozen pasta things, oh what were they called, and so forth. And she's talking to me about pasta and trying to remember what these things are called, and they're seasoned with such-and-such and look like this and that. And I'm thinking it was kinda odd but this lady seemed friendly and nice enough and all. So we're chatting for a couple minutes about California and her mom and pasta and she's wondering where this frozen pasta stuff might be, and I go "hmm, yeah I don't know. I've never been in here before," and she has this stunned look and goes, "Oh... I'm sorry... I thought you worked here."

Were you wearing a Hawaiian shirt?

I wish. Jeans and a polo.

The music playing in Trader Joe's comes from a radio station located remotely and controlled and programmed by the sinister folk at Trader Joe's HQ. This is a FACT

Do you carry yourself officiously? (xp)

I stand up straight?

these box of noodles things from trader joe's rule

The Thai tuna curry in a pouch things from TJs also rule.

i totally get kerms post because I tend to get mistaken for an employee all the time.

i guess I radiate knowledge about gocery stores.
But it's not really hard to "get" the basic layout of any grocery store.
You are always going to walk into the produce section. The milk will ALWAYS be at the other end of the store.
because milk and eggs are the most popular consumer items, so it makes sense to have customers walk through the entire store to get them.

Stores are generally planned FOR profit, not for the customer. But it really does not take much initiative to read the big signs at the end of the aisles.
"Where is the cereal?"
In the big aisle with the big sign that says cereal.

Whole Foods is constantly working on the design - making short aisles so everyone has to walk through a maze of products.
Many WF stores have an area OUTSIDE the store that welcomes you into the Whole Paycheck experience.

One thing will never change. You will never get milk and eggs without a stroll through the store. That's the grocery store truth.

.

This whole Trader Joe's revisionism is B.S. Trader Joe's is great!!!

I'm not advocating total revisionism, Spence. Just caution. What is that bumper sticker I always see on cars in Berkeley? "QUESTION ASSUMPTIONS"

I'm going to miss kneejerk liberal bumper stickers.

I will continue to shop at Trader Joe's. A couple of weeks of going to Albertsons and I will come running back.

Also I don't really think anyone is bashing Trader Joe's much on this thread. Seems fairly positive to me!

I have a very strong I'll-Find-It-Myself instinct which I've brutally subjugated in this age of Big Box stores. Usually someone asks me what I'm after before I can finish reading the aisle signs anyway.

Overly helpful employees are awful, I mean amazing.

Sometimes I just want a little personal time amongst the cheese samples.

i also NEED to spend time in the HABA's section and spray every single tester on my body.
This is a very personal time for me, and it should not be interrupted with an insinuation that I should buy something.

The Thai tuna curry in a pouch things from TJs also rule.

^^^That.

lolol, i bought TJ's cheap-ass house brand gin today, "Rear Admiral Joseph's" a first for me as I always go top shelf for home consuption. but i'm only using it for g&t's, so it can't be that bad.....i'll report back

There is too much goddamn plastic packaging on everything at Trader Joe's. Why in the world do things like avocadoes and cucumbers need to come in taped-up plastic trays? It's about the only store at which I can afford to buy decent meat, although their salmon prices are so low as to be a bit suspicious.

Whole Foods pricing is just way out of my reach.

We've got a good co-op in town, where most everything can be bought in bulk.

On Sunday, I went to Trader Joe's. I think they remodeled and expanded their produce section. Anyway, they had baskets of local produce, including baskets of heirloom tomatoes -- $6.99 for two of the kind that grow very large (yellow and red) and three other kinds (including one of the kind that is greenish red) -- an excellent value and extremely delicious. I feel like I've never eaten so well in my life.

Whole Foods is the favorite, but for cost reasons we shop at Central Market, which is the chain-ish local analogue. Price pitched right between CM & your standard big chain place.

Hoos, is this HEB? Man, the Central Market in San Antonio smells of fish all the damn time. Whole Foods will totally make you a pizza if you ask and then give them money. There's also Sun Harvest which I never go to for no reason?? I think they are owned by Wild Oats. They are good for bulk bin items, I seem to remember.

I've never lived in a town with either of these businesses. Trader Joe's sounds nice, at least for the cheap wines. After one experiment with a screw top from the Grocery Outlet, I am wary of randomly grabbing cheap wines.

I went in a Whole Foods once and it intimidated me by having no normal candy for sale.

Bulk bins haven't spread to this part of the south. Irritating.

I went to BOTH today. Whole Food's is better than any singles bar.

misused apostrophe!

trader joes = COUPLES
whole foods = singles

A couple of weeks ago we got a fantastic blated wedding gift from a friend - a WF gift card. We went last night and bought a ton of groceries not knowing how much was on it and we pleasantly surprised to find out we still have $80 left on it! :-) WF is our closest store so we go there more often but TJ is still my fav of the two, methinks.

belated - whoops.

I've been to Trader Joe's twice and Whole Foods never, but Trader Joe's impressed me by not being particularly expensive.

WF near my work will open in 2 weeks a megaplex of delicious yuppie foodie goodness, closing the old "supermarket-sized" building across the street. I am especially thrilled about this, since the store is now on the correct side of the street for a visit on the way home, and I might no longer have to trip on slow-moving elder yuppies as I navigate to the $7 bunny wine, salad bar, and veggie dogs.

2-buck chuck has its virtues, but I can't buy a case anymore without my wife ridiculing me.

JW otm re the women @ WF

btw, that TJ's cheapo gin was crap, big surprise.....

tj's new "seedy little currant cookies" are goooooood. they remind me of stuff i've had at middle eastern bakeries in nyc.

a. and i had a scare today because we couldn't find the canned triple-shot iced espresso & cream and a clerk said the chain had discontinued them. we actually went to another tj's and were planning to buy out all the 24-count cases they had, but an employee reassured us that the espressos weren't going anywhere and the other guy was mistaken. we still bought a case of 24 and split it between us. lol coffee addicts.

Heheh.

Between and the Mitsuwa one block away I'm always nicely covered for the basics.

I bought those seedy cookies today too, and get bent is right, they're great.

TJ's totally came through for me this past week... my family did a newspaper interview about gluten-free baking, and we needed some almond meal to make stuff. Whole Foods had almond meal for 12.99 a pound. TJ's had it for 3.99 a pound. Seriously. I also love the salads from Trader Joe's, they are excellent to bring to work.

i read last week that would-be Trader Joe's rival Fresh & Easy is off to a very slow start sales-wise.

i guess people in food deserts don't spend a lot of time reading food/real estate blogs?

i've been to fresh & easy once and i'm not yearning to go back. i don't know why, but it feels cold and unwelcoming and kubrickian. trader joe's has an atmosphere that makes me want to shop there -- that lived-in messiness, stuff handwritten on chalkboards, etc.

I still rarely go into Whole Foods - just can't justify paying their prices. I should probably make a trip to the Union Square Trader Joe's once in a while though, it being near the PATH.

it's weird; i've heard that part of F&E's marketing strategy is to appeal to people who are intimidated by whole foods. apart from the size of the WF stores and the occasional option anxiety re their huge selection, i don't feel intimidated by WF in the slightest. (tho the prices can be intimidating if you don't know that their house-brand stuff is a good deal.)

yeah, the wf brands are decently priced, if you can discipline yourself and avoid the impulse gourmet buys its's not that expensive

you can get their okay bread there for like two bucks

i mean their pre-sliced sandwich stuff, not fancy straight-from the bakery stuff

I was also going to mention WF's trumpeting of big-bidness "organic" that travels long distance over local produce that's actually way more ecologically friendly, but I see on their site that they've started to push more local produce too. I also just have a negative gut reaction to fake morality as a branding tool.

As far as prices on their store brand, I haven't done an item-by-item comparison but I doubt a Whole Foods paying Manhattan rents is going to compete on price with Jersey City stores.

trader joe's discontinued the chocolate, chocolate chip & cinnamon cookies. i am sad.

awww not mah bucket of cookies

i have $25 card for trader joes.

what would you get from trader joes if you had $25?

Couple bottles of wine?

Couple ten bottles of wine?

And the baklava...

yeah big up the baklava

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1884/imageuploadimagehx4.jpg

I got a box of wine (about 4 bottles' worth) at TJ's for about $16 and it was drinkable. In that I drank it.

Two Buck Chuck!

I was probably yelling about this upthread, but...TJ's open pretty much after the WF footprint has been established. The feeding bird on the elephant.

I think it's great - but, Trader Joe's would not exist without its host. The brilliance in the marketing of TJ's is beyond belief - the whole pirate theme, etc.

TJ's open pretty much after the WF footprint has been established.

maybe in some places, but not in california. WF is a pricey market, TJ is a cheap one; I don't even see what the comparison is, really

yeah TJ predates WF by about 20 years around here (Pasadena supported two stores, with two more added after Wild Oats and then Whole Foods came) but those franchises certainly accelerated the maturation of the segment.

it's also worth noting that TJ had a more boutique reputation back then, and being able to position itself as 'the cheap one' (even if they had been all along, I don't think most Albertson's shoppers were going for it) certainly doesn't hurt

It's probably an east coast phenomenom.
I DO think it's good to have rival stores.

WF just bought Wild Oats - so...everything branded with Wild Oats was selling at a deep discount at many WF's here. (Bottled water, etc.)

A wonderful, locally owned produce market opened right at the nexus to become a point on the bermuda shopping triangle between WF and TJ/s. Their shopping carts are all branded as Wild Oats. (Probably purchased at the fire sale - so, yeah, it's hilarious to buy stuff from a market that has an obsolete business brand emblazoned on its shopping carts.)

I am now feeling guilty about all of my shopping choices, especially because I have a 20% discount at WF.

Which I utilize basically for wine ( 20% plus 10% if you buy six bottles!!) and HABA's - GPB is expensive! And diapers for my parenting friends. (Again, a 20% discount with a 10% case discount).

I would basically always go to TJ in New York (TJ and WF are within a couple of blocks of each other on 14th St). WF is just too expensive, and even though the line is painful, TJ just feels nicer - the staff, and the sense that the markup isn't so much due to polishing the fruit and smartly packaging the prepared food. They're both a little fraustrating in that you can't actually buy groceries there (toilet cleaner etc), but then again, I use TJ as an occasional stop for frozen food and wine. Regular supermarkets in my section of Brooklyn are also better for produce etc.

The free range chicken at Trader Joe's is terrific.

People need to get the fuck off Whole Foods's jock already:

http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4890&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=0

This has been going on for more than two years.

i choose whole foods because a lot of TJ's stuff is really awful and if i only had time to shop at one of these two places i would go to WF every time.

WF wants to open a store at Stanyan and Haight, about 4 blocks from my house. The place they want is the old Cala Foods place, which is vacant and the only use it gets is as a parking lot. There's some (small?) amount of community opposition to WF there, which I think is totally off-base. Fuck all those filthy hippie punks selling oregano at that corner. Fuck 'em in the eyehole.

Whole Foods is not my favorite company and I don't generally shop there, but I'm kind of surprised there could be that much opposition to filling that lot with something, hell anything. Unless it's a parking issue. The TJ's at Masonic/Geary is a nightmare of poor design and that lot isn't much bigger, I guess.

The WF plan is (was?) to raze the lot and built a structure with several levels of contained parking (and apartments on top, last I heard).

The TJ's at Masonic and Geary is a right fucking nightmare on the weekends.

Okay I can understand why no one is for that. That sounds like a fucking eyesore.

That Fulton Market Square thing sucks ass. I don't blame the denizens of Upper Haight for not wanting a miniaturized version of that with an over-priced anti-union yuppy grocery store at the bottom.

The lot is too small for anything else besides a seriously vertical structure (at least for WF), and the apartments were added to appease folks who opposed on some kinda idunosomethin basis.

Maybe Rainbow could open up a branch if WF fails. I'll start a petition onnit.

The WF plan is (was?) to raze the lot and built a structure with several levels of contained parking (and apartments on top, last I heard).

whoa, they almost NEVER own their buildings outright.

San Francisco would be the exception though.

The TJ's at Masonic and Geary is a right fucking nightmare on the weekends.

-- libcrypt, Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:43 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

YES IT IS! I work there...and yeah, I see it.

Take my advice...go there on a Wednesday...seems to be the slowest day.

Yesterday, Monday, usually the busiest day besided Sunday, was SLOW!!!!!!!!!!...until 8:30..HALF AN HOUR BEFORE CLOSING...ah...crazy shoppers. Can't you show up earlier so we don't have to rush you out of the store??!!!

*Besides...MY GOD I CAN'T TYPE!! Hahaha...things never change.

Whole Foods = Expensive but organic produce, pretty standard deli, good bakery, lots of weird new-age garbage and expensive but mostly delicious packaged goods.

TJ = Expensive pre-packaged goods that TASTE LIKE SHIT, cheap booze.

the winner here is clear. also, i hate the fucking cuteness of trader joe's and their in-house marketing schemes and whatnot. makes me want to vomit.

Central Market > Whole Foods

whether the prepackaged foods at TJs taste like shit is a matter of opinion (i think there are some good things in there) but expensive? everything costs two dollars!

yeah TJs is cheap, much cheaper than even safeway or albertson's, that's why I shop there

All this talk of WF made me hafta take a trip just now down the street to the local WF and pick up a week's worth of hummus, falafel, and dolmas. Mmmmmmm, dolmas. People were fighting for parking spaces, y'all, even in Cupertino.

"yeah TJs is cheap, much cheaper than even safeway or albertson's, that's why I shop there"

^^^ding ding ding

also it seems like the prepackaged stuff at WF is the same stuff (ie same brands) you can now buy in the organic sections of "regular" grocery stores, at least in chicago. whereas TJs is mostly own-brand stuff you can't get anywhere else. i am a big fan of the deli section at whole foods though.

also it seems like the prepackaged stuff at WF is the same stuff (ie same brands) you can now buy in the organic sections of "regular" grocery stores, at least in chicago

WF realizes this and have pulled out the tac nukes with the OMG so good food bar that's far better than most comparably-priced restaurants.

When I am in LA on business I always go to WF instead of eating out at some (relatively) expensive place 'cause there's just nowhere near LAX as good.

in n out on sepulveda dood

Irony or no, I'm a vegetarian which complicates matters somewhat.

Just get some french fries

I do not negotiate on the TJs issue-- their pre-packaged food tastes like shit, and has made nearly every single person I know sick (like vomiting all night sick) at least once. So fuck Trader Joe's.

the veggie/fruit section at WF is miles better than TJs. They've got better meat, too. All other aspects, TJ wins.

Like, I won't set foot in one. I hate them so much.

all night long

you have had weird TJ's experiences, mr. table. this has never happened to me or anyone I know.

"Irony or no, I'm a vegetarian which complicates matters somewhat."

IN'N'OUT GRILLEDD CHEESE SANDWICH >>>> ANYTHING AT WHOLE FOODS (also at Trader Joe's actually.)

god you people with the in and out

I have seen indications that TJ's "frozen" foods don't always make it to the store thus.

i think that's probably true everywhere

yeah, it might just be me and the people i know. i mean, my grandma has gone to the hospital over food from TJs.

c'mon, grandmas go to the hospital to get mail.

I have heard that Trader Joe's wine storage facilities are less than ideal. I find it hard to believe that people are being widespread poisoned by food from there (ttitt's grannie aside.)

"god you people with the in and out"

You just don't understand.

table your friends suck at eating things

c'mon, grandmas go to the hospital to get mail.

roflz

You people, what is it with the in and the out and the in and the out?! Don't you kids think of anything else all day?

People in my area will not shut the fuck up about wanting a Whole Foods. Like as though we can just wish one into existence - hey, there are a bunch of white people in this neighborhood now! That means it's practically a right!

Meanwhile we're still a relatively low-density, moderate income area with one Whole Foods a PATH train ride away and another one a 20 minute drive away.

I never shop at WF - its too expensive, locations suck, and frankly what they sell I don't really need. Knowing that they're anti-union makes me feel even better about not shopping there.

I'll go to TJ's on occasion cuz its cheap but mostly the only things I'll buy there are organic meats and the odd box of cookies or whatever. Never gotten sick from their food, and loads of my extended family happily shop there. Never buy veggies there, fuck that shrinkwrapped shit. I'd buy all my meat from Bi-Rite if I could but shopping there is not always convenient.

Also IN N OUT FOREVER

I would happily do all my shopping at Rainbow if they had a meat section. :( Rainbow + CSA = all my food needs met, pretty much.

Rainbow is great, but it's also a fucking nightmare on the weekends. Or was. I haven't shopped there in a few years because of it being a giant pita.

tj's and ikea are the same, totally functional and ultimately kind of boring. and i think some of their snacks are made from particle board.

I do Rainbow for bulk and produce, TJ's for alcohol (!!!) and other bulk, CostCo for alcohol (lol? :-\ ) and then safeway for other shit. fuck WF.

Two-buck Steve.

did you know that the vineyard responsible for 2 buck chuck is being investigated in the death of a pregnant migrant worker? sad story.

shasta ontharealz

altho I try to stay away from Safeway unless absolutely necessary (bulk purchases of cheap beer, etc.)

we get our grocery shopping done in the middle of the weekday, so dealing with Rainbow usually isn't so bad. Unless its "coupon day".

this thread makes me realize i really don't want to move to the west coast

Thanks gabbs.

We're doing fine w/o you just btw.

farmer's markets too, wtf was i thinking.

gabbneb that is some great news. the UES wants you firmly in his confines.

can anyone recommend a decent place to buy seafood...? I am always kinda bummed at how hard it is to find good fresh fish in this town

farmer's markets too, wtf was i thinking.

YESSSSS!!!!! the one on daley plaza on thursdays is a treat.

I know I'll catch hell for this but um Ferry Building? (xp)

what town you in shakey?

isn't the oyster place supposed to be good?

now i remember i have a book with good places to shop and feel better about SF

I'm in SF. Ferry Building probably a little out of my price range in terms of regular grocery shopping

wait, actually can you guys help me out: where do I food shop in SF? for the summer I live in the Excelsior, but I am moving to Lower Nob Hill in September. Rainbow's that co-op shit on Folsom, right?

Rainbow has some really good shit dude and they are totally SF-corporate-whore-shopping-at guilt-free.

Just don't drive there.

okay, sounds good. you don't need to be a member or anything, do you?

Nope.

Rainbow is the bomb diggity

but I do wish they would get a meat section

cheese section is fucking awesome

this rainbow place sounds good

The Rainbow cheese buyer likes the cheese I mentioned in another thread that has maggots in it just btw.

This guy --->>> http://www.gordonzola.net/

mm delicious maggots

okay ftr I have never gotten maggoty cheese there. this week we had some fancy shmancy goat cheese that was more like brie, I forget where it was from.

The WF nearest my house seems to be crowded all the time and for that reason I often regret going in there. Too much like a zoo and the parking lot insanity etc. Once around the holidays, I got into a shouting match with a guy about parking and when I calmed down I just thought "what in the hell am I doing here?" and left. That said, every once in awhile if I'm over in that part of town I'll brave it and I usually end up getting something at the (admittedly great) food bar.

Luckily I have a cheaper health-food co-op nearer my house that takes care of my needs, and there are some basics I get at Safeway as well.

I never have been able to understand what makes TJ's so great to so many people. Whenever I've gone in there I haven't really felt the urge to buy much of anything. I went through a phase of really digging their cookies, though, when I was a student.

I think a lot of it has to do with prepackaging, being cheap, and an "alternative" to Albertsons/Safeway/what-have-you. I'm sure that's its appeal to my mom, who cooks for one and doesn't have a ton of money, but likes to feel like she's indulging her inner hippie.

y'know, she goes there and spends $20 and she has meals for the week.

Yeah, that makes sense.

rainbow got 100x better after they were bought out
for that reason, both WF and TJ can promptly eff off

?

Rainbow is a worker-owned cooperative

Central Market > Whole Foods

-- milo z, Tuesday, 15 July 2008 19:20 (Yesterday) Link

Totally.

I go to my barber for 2 reasons: 1. he cuts my hair as I like it, and 2. he has the best Haight St. gossip/politics. Yesterday, I got a cut and he gave me the skinny on the Cala lot: It's been offered to both TJs and Rainbow, and both turned it down! The WF proposal is 300 underground parking spaces and 300 above-store condos sandwiching WF. Poor arithmetic aside, WF is pressing ahead to develop there, and it looks like the opposition is running out of steam: Even the most adamantly opposed folks still want SOME kind of grocery store there.

I don't think this is a good idea at all...

http://690stanyan.com/

I realized that one of the greatest things about Trader Joe's is that I feel like you don't have to play the "Watch for the screw" game, i.e. pricing does not appear to be done in the sleazy, scammy way it's usually done in normal supermarkets (calling something a "special" that's actually more expensive, fudging on the per-unit price, etc.)

WF appears to have won the battle for 690 Stanyan btw.

I'm sorry, make that the CITIZENS OF THE UPPER HAIGHT NEIGHBORHOOD have won.

Meh. I just hope the construction isn't too annoying.

I wonder if Lucky will up their game in response. And the poor little Greek grocery caught in the middle with the owner that has anger management probs? This is going to be HIGH FUCKIN DRAMA.

i'm totally in the trader joe's camp, but if whole foods made their blueberry bagels every day, i'd be there every day. mmmmmmm.

has anyone tried their beer?

2-buck Chuck is great for making large quantities of sangria. TJ gets this for having a great food, beer & wine selection at unbelievable prices.

But I have to extend deep thanks to Whole Foods for getting me through rough times with their copious samples & "try what you like" deli policy.

WF on 14th Street gives me a frackin anxiety attack, just standing in it. Then comes the irrational anger at nabe newbies getting pissy about there not being enough live food or whatever post-hippie con is the rage these days.

TJ's is a freelancer's BFF. Monday around two it's nearly empty and te chocolate yogurt is weirdl amazing and the pork sausages way cheap, though the coffee is beyond gak but then again, that's why God gave NYC Porto Rico's.

I am ADDICTED to Trader Joe's asparagus risotto. That is all

TJ's is a freelancer's BFF

OTM. Burbank TJ's in the late afternoon is a well-stocked ghost town. They actually stock the pumpkin granola and feta/onion pastries that La Brea TJ's doesn't know anything about.

The chicken Gorgonzola (frozen) at TJs is my favorite recent discovery. And it seems the Thai curry tuna is no longer stocked :/

GYOZA

also the trek mix with the tart cherries is really good

as said somewhere else, some of their indian food that comes in pouches is fucking great.

^^^^just had some for dinner

My frozen food purchases at TJ have dropped off to nothing over the past couple of years given my preference to cook from scratch now, but they are still crucial for lots of other things.

Heard today that the Whole Foods my sis works at has seen a boom in business for a very simple reason -- people are eating out less, therefore shopping at Whole Foods (and other spots, obv) a lot more.

i just ate practically a whole container of tj's lacey cookies tonight (bf managed to steal a couple of bites and some crumbs). they are magnificent. actually, in terms of junkfood, tj's is the best - all that gourmet chocolate stuff, and not totally out of my acceptable price range.

Went to Trader Joe's for the first time ever and was not impressed. I don't get what the big deal is. Thinking of all the grocery stores I have ever experienced in my life, Sun Harvest is still up there followed by Central Market and HEB. Here in Maryland there is no HEB (centralmarket or sunharvest)but I am loving the Price Depot Grocery (teehee) across the street.

the big deal is super cheap tasty prepared food

Howard E Butt

omg aja worked at the trader joe's I went to every other day when I lived in sf

mind blown

alex in nyc racked up some crazy frequent flyer miles

Meijer's has all of that health food + hammers and toilet paper and stuff. I guess they discriminate against gays though so you can't have everything you want.

I saw a Meijer's somewhere in our travels but I don't think we actually entered the store and looked around. Indianapolis, maybe.

I like TJ's because

-it's about the same price as big box supermarkets around me. sometimes cheaper!
-they offer novel foods
-I recognize most of the ingredients on the label

I don't buy produce from them but they do some 'basics' really well. like basic dried mangos w/o added sugar or sulphur - or apricots w/o sugar and sulphur - that's hard to find in a normal supermarket.

If I had to choose, I'd have to go with Whole Foods for their wall of wine. But I live in the suburbs which means cooking from scratch. And lord knows we have plenty of liquor in the suburbs. Honestly I don't miss either store.

i watch a lot of those chef blind taste test videos like from epicurious and the like and its remarkable to me how often trader joe's and whole foods foods are criticized. they are never anyone's fave. regular supermarket stuff is always preferred to the TJ or WF dumpling, frozen pizza, french fry, noodles, sauce, etc.

I've been silently boycotting Whole Foods when I saw that you only get certain item discounts if you're a Prime member, fuck that shit and fuck Jeff Bezos

I have both stores available to me within a reasonably short drive. I shop at TJs about once every 10-12 weeks to restock a few pantry items, mainly nuts and dried fruit, olive oil, and a limited selection of other stuff like peanut butter, mustard, or slightly better wine for 'occasions'.

otoh, when a Whole Foods moved into an empty building another grocery store had abandoned, out of curiosity I spent an hour or so scoping out every section, trying to discover if it offered any items I'd want to buy there instead of elsewhere. I found nothing at all that interested me.

Trader Joe's doesn't sell wine in NYC anymore and I am BEYOND excited to stop in Michigan and pick up SO MANY BOTTLES at Christmas. I might stop on the way back too just to make sure I come with a bunch. At this point my regular wine preferences are around a $16-18 bottle, and I can cut that price in half or more at TJ's.

I think a lot of the store brand items are the same products but with different packaging. TJs has a lot of stuff that I don’t actually “need” so even though it’s inexpensive, it’s like impulse buy type stuff and when I focused on saving money and “intentional” spending, I stopped going there. That’s just a me thing though. I will get stuff at Amazon Grocery (aka Whole Foods) if I am in a hurry or if I want a specific thing that only they have.

TJ's prices on pantry basics are lower than other supermarket prices for top quality items iirc. You can get cheaper tuna, but it will be the terrible kind, whereas at TJs I think the store brand is a higher level of quality at the same price as the cheap kind elsewhere. This might only be true in niche categories but they are categories I care about: coffee, tuna, gluten-free pasta, turbinado sugar, eggs, condiments like sesame oil and sauces, spices.

And their cheeses are crazy cheap. Boursin is like $8 anywhere else, including BJs where they're supposed to be all about volume deals, but it's like $4.69 at Trader Joe's?!??!?