Mini English Road Trip

Also, I had a great time. It helps if you have a navigator with the Michelin guide, then it becomes like a Rally race! "hard left" "soft right" "ROUNDABOUT" "AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!".

-Spencer

Try and get to the Yorkshire coast too, whitby and Robin Hood's bay.

Saltaire is cool too, if a little yuppified.

Sights I'd recommend (in addition to those recommended up thread): The Ribble Head Viaduct, Sheffield (Site Gallery, Kelham Island Steel Mueum, the fat cat pub, friends), Chesterfield (the twisty spire), Crich (Tramways Museum), Matlock Bath (tween victorian spa town), Harrogate (Betty's Tea rooms, another spa town), Pickering (Castle), Scarborough (castle, sea), Whitby (Dracula, goths, sea, fish), Mexborough (Castle), Edale (Cheshire Cheese Pub), Goathland (Very pretty bit of the moores some lovely waterfalls on the Eller Beck, The Mallion spout hotel (used to do the heartiest of hearty meals and the biggest breakfast I ever saw)), York (Minster, City Walls, Yorvik Viking centre, Old Town, National Railways Museum), Liverpool (Tate, Walker Art Gallery, The Docks/Graces, My Gran)

The North York Moors Railway - Pickering to Grosmont (sometimes to Whitby)
Peak Rail - Matlock to Rowsley
East Lancs Rly. - Heywood - Bury -Rawtenstall

(Also there's the GCR in the north midlands)

MCR is weird: huge expansion of Shopportunities in the city centre means there are a lot of Mancs attempting to bling in the general vicinity of Selfridges. It's pretty malled up. The best Chinese restaurant in the UK is in the Chinatown there (we tried to go during Xmas shopping season but it was full and more than that, doorwhored by bruisers in tuxes and Britney headsets who get all ''ave you booked, love?'). The Oldham Street corridor still looks good and Affleck's Palace and Dry and Pop are there (except the coffee at Pop is rubbish). Oh and there are TRAMS.

You also probably want to eat your way through the Indian food in Bradford. That's Gareth's manor, so...

Really, don't bother, look at it on the net or summat, my home town is nit the most picturesque)

Matlock bath is nice yes, but not on a Sunday, then it is a portal to hell, full of screaming kids and a hella lot of bikers.

If you're going to the Peak district then go to Crich (town that stopped the plague from spreading by quarantining themselves), Chatsworth house (and the farm shop)

The tramway museum at Crich (pronounced cry-ch) is OK, but it's very isolated and it won't take up more than a half day (doubt if you'd manage that, mind you I went there so many times on school trips that I could probably give you a guided tour without actually being there)

I am a nitwit I meant of course ... oh jesus ... mental blank.... should be preparing for a meeting..... the vicars name was Mompesson..... pretty village.... couple of good pubs.... one does Stones... the other Robinsons... Jeez, someone help me out here

right, back to meeting preparation

There used to be quite a good record shop in Hebden Bridge, and one or two cracking ordinary little pubs which gave some respite from the sound of brown rice being munched.

Manchester City Art Gallery is pretty good (they've a decent enough permanent collection, incl a couple of CRW Nevinson bits which I love love love, especially the football one). Also tremendous is the Whitworth Gallery, who have a sound collection of 20th century stuff and a trivvic collection of artists textiles. I saw a show of Bawden / Aldridge wallpaper there a few motnhs ago which completely slayed me but (a) that's my problem and (b) it's finished anyway.

The Henry Moore place in Leeds is good (they've a fine & unsettling show of Italian sculptue made under the Fascists right now).

Leeds is all about the Victoriana though: the gin palaces (go to the Adelphi) and the arcades. I think you might enjoy the Corn Exchange, Mary, but I was more about the fleamarkets out the back of the glorious City Markets. Park Square's worth a look, but nothing interesting happens there. Have a gander at the stage / organ bit of the Town Hall if you can get in: I saw the Bridewell Taxis there.

Or you could go drink in the Fforde greene now the Gaiety's closed down. I realise I'm dating myself there.

I forgot Hebden Bridge, very nice, just don't buty any of the ethnic jewellery or wacky pottery.

lots of good.....wait fot it....lowry pictures though, if you like that.
the building kinda sucks. also salford-deserted-tumbleweed-docks area freak the shit of of you. this may have changed tho.

Hull is gritty.

There are lots of pretty places round there. Where they did the cycling at the olympic games is very pretty and from the top of Rivington Pike you get a great view all the way to Blackpool tower if the weather's right, and a garden at the top, of Lord Lever's house, which burnt down, but you can see the floor plan, and the black and white tiled flooring. It's very cool, and has great sunsets.

(Also there's the GCR in the north midlands)

Not to mention the Worth Valley line, which is easier to get to than the NYMR and Peak Rail if you're travelling by train to start with.

If you go to Rowsley though you have to go to Birchover and see Rowtor rocks, they're ace

Also... Surprise view!!

Curbar edge too, and Stanton Moor and the Nine ladies.

well, there are a few more but I'm keeping them just for me.

York is nice it has city walls and a good old town. Liverpool is great, contrary to what someone might say. Definately worth seeing. Did I mention my dad's from there.

Sheffield is interesting in that it is not much but some good clubbing type fun can be had there. Its full of lovely people.

It is a bleak district with hills.

Is the Brontes thing any good or just a tourist trap?

Tourist traps are good. It is both. Also very hilly. Hills suck.

What happens in Victorian Spa towns?

Nothing whatsoever. Any green shoots of life are stamped out swiftly. Tea shops can be good though.

Can you still take the healing waters?

Tetley's only.

What is York like?

Well-preserved medieval centre surrounded by nondescription. Excellent for an afternoon. York Minster = world classic. The odd decent pub.

And Liverpool?

24 carat classic: great pubs good art galleries decent shopping.

What is Sheffield like?

Horrible and miserable. No fun at all. Some claim it has good pubs but they'd need to be very good indeed to justify setting foot in Sheff. the nice people are to be found in the nearby towns like Rotherham and Donny in my experience.

So Hull is gritty?

Yes, yes it is. Hard to make a day trip to Hull fiun, though: the fun is to be had hanging around. Some good chip shops. Some risk of Beautiful South encounters.

Is there a particularly good or bad time to visit this area?

Autumn is good, it makes the North feel craggy but it has yet to freeze. Leeds can be strangeely windy in the Autumn and it suits.

How is Brighton?

Terrible and horrible.

Any chance of you answering my NYC to Nashville question here: Nashville and Memphis ?

Horrible and miserable"

????????????

this is sheffield, s yorks, youre talking about?

dude, sheffield is the shit!

The Peak District Mary, is my manor, and it's wonderful.

Liverpool's got a fantastic atmosphere, is great for art, and you've got the two very different cathedrals. You've got to go to paddy's wigwam (the catholic one) as it's so different.

http://www.cathchap.org.uk/images/cathedral2.jpg

Frankly Gareth's advice is terrible. All human life is here in London. Why spread yrself so thin.

How long are you planning to spend? Much better to decide that, then plan your itinerary, then you can decide what's achievable.

Tim to thread of lancaster...

That's just crazy talk.

There's much to see in Lancashire too. The Forest of Bowland is a nicely untouristified bit between Lancaster and err...somewhere else. Everyone seems to head for the Dales or the Lakes and misses that bit out. But I like it a lot.

Sorry, but I'd never dream of telling anyone to go to Leeds and Bradford before Manchester. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

The Holy Name Church
Rusholme
Strangeways
Salford Lads Club
The Iron Bridge
Southern Cemetery
Whalley Range
Hulme

Blind Beggar = blando everypub. Stand back there's nothing to see here (not offensive though). Grave Maurice: since refit a couple of years back, hasn't quite regained the charm it had. Still decent enough but not one ot go out of your way for. Still some opportunity to drink near real actual East End Gangster types from time to time.

Estate pub is the way to go and if you're in Whitechapel you're just around the corner from Estate Pub Central.

I heard the Pride of Spitalfields burned down and if that's true it's a shame because I liked it in there.

but there is always the food option round there...

Mummy, I'm frightened.

(When I'm in Leeds I like to go to the Adelphi and pop in to the Cardigan Arms and the Rising Sun and you should have a look at the Whitelocks because that's amazing... in London I'm in love with the Lord Clyde and the Harlequin at the moment for very different reasons plus you should do the Town of Ramsgate / Prospect of Whitby thing or the Angel / Mayflower thing, either way is fine and you should think about the Windsor Castle (yes that one) but don't eat the food because it's not very good ... Manchester is as a closed book to me though Tag took me up the Peverill the other week and that was good (yes that is rhyming slang))

Chris that fellow in the Bull is classic. He doesn't give a monkey's!

The Angel is the one that does really nice roast potatoes and yorkshire puddings on the bar on a Sunday afternoon. mmmmmm PF will remember that one ;o)

I've been in the Peverill I think - good boozer from what I remember.

Acton, Ealing, Hanwell, Southall.

Forget the rest of it.

Getting back to Yorkshire, Haworth is only really worth a visit if you are a Bronte fan. If you're not, there are prettier villages around without the tourist traps. The Bronte Parsonage is a great museum and the pub where Branwell used to get wankered is also lovely. You tend to be surrounded by literary pilgrims which can be a bit rough, but at least they are not Smiths fans.

Which is the seafaring-themed pub near Peckham/New Cross in the one-way system (I think) that looks rubbish but compelling in a kitsch sort of way? Is that the Montague Arms?

I haven't had pie and mash in ages, and now I'm really craving it cheers Tim.

"Coach Parties Welcome" = quite literally a very bad sign.

Vicky black pud you say? Hm perhaps I m reconsidering.

It has a stuffed zebra, ergo there is no way it is the worst pub in London.

I wonder if the stagecoach is still there.

Kew Gardens is worth a look if you like pagodas (who doesn't?)..but then i think Battersea Park has one as well.

Perhaps we should have a series of Four Corners FAPS - instigated by myself, Tim, Mark C, SteveM, and anyone who lives in NE London.

Anyway, how is Arndale Shopping Center in MCR?

Unpleasant. I don't set foot in the place unless it's absolutely necessary, which, thankfully, it rarely is.

Other answer that splits the difference = Ferryboat inn at Tottenham Hale.

have you seen rita sue and bob too?

Very interesting, like a French quotodian thrillerama, but all the characters are speaking in English. 1985, David Hare.

http://www.blockbuster.com/bb/movie/details/0,7286,VID-V++++53975,00.html

http://www.methuen.co.uk/images/0413686108.jpg

I think there's a lot to be said for the Cotswolds, mooching about the countryside in the Western end of Oxfordshire and on into Glos. Then, I love Gloucestershire, it's home for me in a not very real sense.

Salisbury! The Cathedral precinct is maybe the second best anywhere (after Exeter, obv, but that's perhaps a bit far for you). Pick the correct pub and you have a winner.

If you want the South Coast (and don't want to interfere with the old folks hanging around the bus stops in Sidmouth) then that glorious International Style pavillion in Bexhill-on-Sea is better than anything Brighton has to offer. Just over the road there is a strange record shop with cassettes by the Tubes in the window.

I took the train from London to Exeter and back on Saturday and was reminded how tremendously beautiful the South of England is, high summer suits it very well.

http://pod-135.positive-internet.com/~gareth/manchester.jpg

Fri: London > Bradford & Leeds
Sat: Morrissey's Manchester
Sun: Brontes' Haworth
Mon: Blackpool, possibly > London

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/leeds5.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/bradford3.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/bradford4.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/bingojesus.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/map.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/saltaire.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/shipleysky.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/carousel.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/brighton.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/thames.jpg

http://www.norfolkwindmills.com/images/highgate.jpg

This time maybe to Manchester & Blackpool & . . .?

Where in the Lake District is good to go?

Blackpool is a must.

I wouldn't endorse it

The pretty areas are Shaftesbury (Gold Hill - Dvorak - Hovis etc), the Piddle villages, Cranborne Chase (ideal if you're into bronze age archaeology, the western coast (Gold Cap etc), Sherborne, Lulworth Cove and the 'Jurassic' coast, the coastal path in general come to think of it and for oddness, Portland. Incidentally, Bournmouth has more night...

If you are really interested, then say and I'll waffle on for several more hours. I lived in Dorset for about six years and travelled around a lot.

So should I do Birminghan/and/or Sheffield/and/or Nottingham instead of the Lakes? Please tell me about things to do in the above.

If corrupt governments are your thing (and let's hope not because it makes dull tourism), Old Sarem near Salisbury is an eerie place and a traditional corrupt ward to boot.

Wessex is awash with Hardy pilgrims. If you're a Hardy fan, you can follow the book trails. If you can take or leave the novels, go for the scenery alone.

in a nutshell, sheffield !=shite

If go to sheffield walk calmly through the Botanical gardens, or get a bike and swoop through the woods of the Rivelin Valley. And have cream of Cauliflower soup in the cafe at the Forum.

and get run over by a horse at the Abbeydale industrial hamlet

Mary, when exactly are you in Manchester?

No thoughts on Beechmount Estate?

I think I would be most interested in seeing the British equivalent of big American mountains. Hills and lakes might well be a good substitute, but they should be interesting ones. I had thought the Lake District would be the most likely candidate. But the Peak District certainly sounds promising. Are there mountains with snow? In what seasons? I would also be interested in seeing rugged coast with green (?) and castles (?), and if I could do both that would be great, but I think the mountain imperative comes first.

I would envision, say, leaving London on a Friday late afternoon/evening and returning Sunday afternoon/evening. Perhaps an extra day could be tacked on. I would want to go somewhere that would be a good base for an interesting hike, or if necessary/more scenic perhaps some sort of third-party train/bus/auto-tour.

And what would be the best route there? If the destination were far more interesting than the route, I guess speed would be the primary interest. But are there interesting routes? I guess I would want to see more interesting countryside/farmland on the way, though Pittsburgh-type-places might also be interesting. What would be most British?

dont bother with a bus, for this kind of timescale, you need to get the train

the only thing is, for snowdonia and lake district, the trains arent amazingly great (up the west side of the country isnt so good for trains), peak district might be a bit better, but even then trains arent brilliant up the middle. GNER trains up the east are great, there are hardly any stops, but thats not going to get you where you want to go

still better than the bus though, whichll take forever

most of the decent landscape AND cities are in the north, or, at least, nowhere near london. the south of england, london aside, is really rather nothingy

if you go to the lakes, kendal is probably the safest bet as a base, its also the easiest to reach.

countryside on the way up is going to be flat suburbia and nothing towns, for a long time after you leave london. the places you would go through would probably be oxford, coventry, birmingham, stoke, preston, lancaster. if you went to snowdonia, youd probably veer off at birmingham.

pittsburgh type cities? well, sheffield is the obvious choice here, and is also right next to the peak district, were you to take that choice

Aviemore has the cairngorms and is best for snow and being pretty wild. The town is not as nice. There is a good pub with rooms on the the eastern side of the town on the road up to Corrie Cas.

Fort William has the sea, Mallaig being just up the coast and beautiful, and of course the highest mountain in the UK. Fort William the town is a little grim though.

Crianlarich is a little victorian mountain resort. Loch Lomond is just to the south, Good craggy granite mountains and the line to Oban branches there if you wan the sea.

Bridge or Orchy is just to the north and much wilder. And is jsut to the South of Glen coe with has one of Scotlans most entertaining Scrambes (The Anoch Eagach) and it's most aethetically pleasing mountains Buchail Etive Mor. Plus a good climbers pub with a bunk house and good beer.

The West Highland bit of the Sleeper journey (not to Aviemore) is probably the most spectacular going and it's done in daylight on the way out.

Closer in You could get to Betws y Coed in Wales which gives you Snowdonia, but it's not the quickest to train journeys to get there.

for anything

Easyjet and BMI both now offer reasonable flights to Inverness from Gatwick-or-Luton and Heathrow respectively. I know you said train or bus, but if you're going overnight on the train, you aren't going to see much anyway, so cut out the travelling time and spend more time in one of the loveliest parts of Britain.

It sound like Inverness might be best-suited to this sort of touristy greatest-hits travel, with the Lake District and the other recommended destinations left for later, more extended/familiar trips? And yes, I could certainly fly, assuming EasyJet runs 737s or such (I don't like small planes). If I left on a Friday morn and returned Sun night, would it be reasonable to attempt to do the loch and/or canal Friday afternoon, take a tour to Orkney (!!) all day Saturday, and hike at Cairngorm Mountain most of the day on Sunday?

Get one sense of geography! The trip from Scrabster to Stromness takes an hour and a half!!! (takes about two hours to drive to Scrabster from Inverness - just over three hours on the bus I think). You can book a day trip round Orkney, this is what we did the one time I went there. OK, it's only Mainland (the main island) you'll get round, but most of the stuff worth seeing is there.

Your timeframe sounds totally reasonable, as long as you book your Orkney trip in advance.

And Easyjet use 737s on the London - Inverness routes. Sorted.