Do you still masturbate regularly even when you're in a satisfying sexual relationship with someone?

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Yesterday, a propos of nothing in particular, my girlfriend asked me if I'd masturbated since we started going out. I said yes. She acted really, really upset. So I backpedalled furiously and said hardly ever, only when she's away etc. Which is not true, I've continued to do it as I always have done - I guess it serves a different function for me. But my girlfriend's reaction made me wonder whether I'm the freak, hence the question.

― logged off, Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought people masturbated more when getting regular sex.

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Get out clause "yeah, but I was thinking of you..."

Alright, maybe not.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

You're not the freak definitely, but girls tend to be funny about this subject. It's a bit of a cliche, but they can see it as it's them not being enough to fulfil their partner. Or that their partner doesn't find them attractive anymore. I guess it's down to security & how open & honest you are within the relationship.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, if you masturbate as well as sex, that's fine. If you masturbate *instead of* sex, then there's a problem.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Definitely, Ms Fleet is otm

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I see your point Pinkpanther, of course that's what she was upset about. I wonder if this is a bit of a gender divide because I don't think it'd bother me if my girlfriend told me she regularly masturbates. It'd probably turn me on!

I don't masturbate *instead of* sex, for me it's something different, maybe more selfish, just "I want to have an orgasm and that's it". Sex with my girlfriend is about sharing something.

― logged off, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

"Aww, i was thinking of Ned Ragget.."
"Ah well that's okay then love, give us a kiss"

― --------, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

also, it's good for your triceps.

seriously though, it's almost not even sexual, it's like a comfort thing. like eating a whole pizza.

― Luigi Vampa (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it can be different aswell, say if you used p0rn.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I was playing the game Scruples with some friends including my girlfriend at the time a few years ago and a question came up that went something like "Do you prefer sex with your partner or masturbating?" and my girlfriend without hesitation said masturbating, explaining (if I remember correctly) that she always hit the spot and liked not having to worry about me, IN A ROOM FULL OF ALL OUR FRIENDS!!! Anyway, I brought this up with her recently and she was absolutely mortified that she would've said something like that. I don't think I actually said anything to her about being upset but I'm pretty sure she was hitting her spot herself for a few days after.

― wanker, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

This thread is SO WRONG already.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Sex with a partner & masturbation are different definitely.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually take the same view as Logged Off, that it's just different. It's not a substitute for sex, it's just to blow off steam or something. So I guess it's not going to be divided down the gender line - my first proper boyfriend was really upset when I confessed that I still masturbated. I was 19, I had hormones going crazy, of course I masturbated furiously! He was jealous and besides, he thought it was morally wrong or sick or something. Weirdo.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Tell her to look at it as snacking in between eating a main course.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

ie its fine as long as it doesn't ruin your appetite. A bit like Milky Way.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I am always so intrigued when ppl log off to post. I thought I knew who this was, but then maybe not!

Matt is scarily correct! ha!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I just have a problem with the idea of "snacking between meals" because so many people use this as a codeword for casual sex and affairs in the context of a long-term relationship. A person is not a meal.

However, I suppose my analogy is just as bad. I view masturbation the way that I view 4-tracking, or noodling about on the guitar by myself to see what comes up, and sex with a partner is like a jam session, a good rehearsal or a gig.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

hey some of us can't even get a gig

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Awwww *ruffles stevem's hair*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Yep, like a machine.

― Chris V (Chris V), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

A *sexy* machine.

― omg, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, is that what James Brown was on about?

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:27 (twenty-two years ago)

*nods*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

"a gig" would imply that there is an audience.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"I think it can be different as well, say if you used p0rn."

I think that's interesting too. I can't really see why it makes much difference if you wank with the aid of p0rn or not. If not, you're still going to have some fantasy running across your mind's eye, and it's unlikely (yet possible) to be about someone you're currently having sex with, because that's not generally how fantasies work. But I think you're right, if I said to my girlfriend: "not only do I masturbate, but I also use p0rn", she'd be even more upset. Why? (assuming one doesn't have a necessarily anti-porn attitude)

― logged off, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe you should make her a part of it, l/o.

― Luigi Vampa (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:36 (twenty-two years ago)

it could well be a fantasy about someone you're currently having sex with, but not necessarily what you normally would do with this person. like, say, if you fantasise that the partner is actually enjoying the sex, etc.

if you explicitly told your girlfriend you used porn to aid masturbation of course it would be upsetting, it would sound like an insult. she didn't need to know this.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

p0rn opens another kettle of fish, not completely separate from masturbation, but related to it. It really depends on the kind of p0rn being used, to some extent. But mainly I would worry about the conditioning. If you learn to associate being turned on *only* with the kind of imagery in p0rn, you end up like Calum, rather than someone who is able to accept women as sexual equals, or someone who is able to have an actual relationship with a real woman, not an imaginary one.

But again, it's a question of proportion. Occasional p0rn use is not a problem, but reliance on p0rn is a problem.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:39 (twenty-two years ago)

i guess it would come down to the individual's attitudes towards p0rn. But it's prolly to do with the fact that it doesn't invovlve your g/f. You are looking at/thinking about another woman whilst doing what comes naturally, so your g/f isn't part of it. It could feel like cheating. (could!!)

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i agree with ken, if you pointed it out that you're using it, it's kind of rubbing her nose in the fact that you're thinking about someone else while doing something sexual. which is normal and everything, sure. but not nice to hear. i'd rather be an ostrich about this kind of thing. i don't ask, don't tell.

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree Colette, of course it's perfectly natural and all, but you certainly don't want to hear about it. It would only be a short thought process to 'he thinks about lady x whilst having sex with me.' Which let's face it, he prolly does!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

What about going to a strip club while in a relationship? This was a question asked of me by No One In Particular a short while back.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

It's not the "cheating" aspect of it that bothers me. I mean, fantasy is important in a long-term relationship. If it remains fantasy, it wouldn't bother me. I mean, come on, I would be hypocritical to complain about that given my perving on Nigel Spivey, for example.

I looked up this quote in Time Magazine, because I found the whole article very interesting. Now normally, reading Time is like having Middle America in all its conservative right wing glory poured down my throat like cod liver oil, but this quote is interesting:

"(They)... say men who frequently view p0rn may develop unrealistic expectations of women's appearance and behaviour, have difficulty forming and sustaining relationships and feeling sexually satisfied."

Describe anyone we know?

Sex is such a deeply behaviourly thing. Orgasm is such a powerful positive reward response that people very quickly get sexually conditioned. In a way, this is good. Look at the myriad variations of human sexuality and what a wonderful diversity that is! It leads to better sex and a better relationship if you learn to associate your partner with an orgasm response. But if your orgasm response has been conditioned to respond only to a very narrow range of female appearance and submissive behaviour, or even worse, if your orgasm response has been conditioned to respond to demeaning and humiliation of women, or video nasties or the like, you are going to have problems with a *real* woman.

I say like I said about masturbation. If it is an addition to a mutually satisfying sexual relationship with your partner, it's fine. If it supplants it, or distracts from it, it is not fine.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post - strip clubs are just icky. I've been to enough of them to know. (Heck, I was curious. I wanted to know what the appeal was.)

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

tell yr gf that yr staying power would drop significantly if you didn't do yr calisthenics. Cuz that's the fringe benefit she hopefully enjoys.

― Luigi Vampa (Horace Mann), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

i wouldn't overly like it if my boy said he was going to a strip club, but aslong as he wasn't going to sleep with the strippers (or anybody else for that matter) it would be ok. I think! I wouldn't want any private lapdances to occur though!
x-post

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not sure, actually. if it was a one-off or an occasional thing that he 'was dragged off to by the guys', i guess that's ok. regular visits probably not so much.

one of those things that i end up having long feminist debates with myself in my head when i try to make a call either way.

the last couple guys i've dated seem to be of the 'i find strip clubs weird and a little scary' school. which keeps me happy. even if they're exagerating a little, that's ok. (if they're saying this and going once a week, yeah, there's issues)
x-post

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

To answer the question: Yes. I like to touch myself. It's as goddamn simple as that. Also, they're MY TOYS. I share them with X. But they're mine. Mine mine mine!!!

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

fair point!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(By "toys" I don't mean "sex toys" -- I mean "my body parts")

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy.

It's a tough question to answer. I've had male roommates when I was single, and although they were actively in a sexual relationship, they would jerk off daily. How did I know? If you've even had sex ONCE in your life, there's just 'sex noises' that can't be masked. Both of them jerked off each morning in the shower, so I don't know if they were sooooo happy with washing their willy or they were using Herbal Essense shampoo.

To me, jerking off more than one time a day, if you're over the age of 30 says that you're NOT doing it for sex, you're using it as an excuse. My male friends have said that they wank when bored, killing time, want to feel good about themselves, or meet some stranger on a bus/restaurant, etc.

Like anything, it can be abused. My EX (note: EX!) wanked off every chance he got, even though we had sex multiple times per week. He said that "It just felt good", and he saw no reason to stop. To me, that's like over-eating, saying that even though you're not hungry, the taste of food is too good to pass by.

It came to be a problem because he did it so often, he couldn't perform in bed, because there was nothing left to give to me.

On occasion, if your partner is away/sick/or too tired, then it's okay. If you wank as often as you brush your teeth, then NO!

― Psychokitty, Thursday, 22 January 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Only when I'm having trouble sleeping.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Sex clubs/strip joints: If you're invited to a party, I can understand them. If you visit them every Thursday after Pay Day, BIG problem.

It's voyeristic, demeaning to your partner, and sets up a wall between what is 'normal' and what is not. Unless you have mirrored walls in your bedroom and a dance pole, (which would be COOL!), then how can your partner compete with "Pro's". The girls stay at the same age (under 25 years old) each and every year, while your partner, like YOU, gets older and less nubile each year.

I don't know many men who'd like their women to go to Male Strip clubs each week and then know that they are wanking off to them.

― Psychokitty, Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'know, I've still never been to a strip club. Maybe I'll go to one this weekend.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not much of a p0rn user, and when I do it's vanilla stuff not hardcore. But I remain unconvinced with the argument that p0rn use gives you unreal expectations that you then can't fulfil IRL. Do my non-p0rn stimulated fantasies give me unreal expectations? Because they're not the same as what I do in real life either. I think men can distinguish between fantasy and real life, and p0orn is just another form of fantasy. And besides a glossy photo is never, ever going to be the same as a real life naked woman in your arms. I know a lot of women are unhappy with the idea of men using p0rn, and perhaps they have good reason to be, but I don't think the conditioning argument really stands up.

― logged off, Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:11 (twenty-two years ago)

What would you think/how would you feel if your g/f used video p0rn?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

In what way? You mean watching videos by herself? I don't think I'd mind as long as it wasn't all the time or anything.

― logged off, Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

(this is just reminding me of the potential girl FAP at the strip club...)

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

My ex watched lots of p0rn. Sometimes she watched it even when she wasn't wanking, she just liked to see people sexing. It never made me feel irked, but maybe it's cuz I knew that, if she's sitting there watching p0rn by herself, she's not out having sex with some other dude.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

psychokitty if you can hear people wanking in a shower they must have been PRETTY LOUD!

To me, jerking off more than one time a day, if you're over the age of 30 says that you're NOT doing it for sex, you're using it as an excuse.

i can't figure out what this bit meant at all... wanking gets you sex?? i can't wait til i'm over thirty!

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

WOO HOO! I'd much rather go to a female strip club anyway! Spearmint rhino, here we come!

AHEM!

yes i jst wondered if you felt the same way (being male) as some females feel about it.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

But, but girls don't like porn. It's wrong and it degrades them etc etc

Norm to thread. Bork bork bork.

― C-Man (C-Man), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

what girls do you know?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

But, but girls don't like porn.

For once C-man's right.

GIRLS DON'T LIKE PORN
GIRLS LIKE CARS AND MONEY!

Eveyrone knows that.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

some girls like porn...but that's not what i wanted to write about.

i was in a relationship in which this became a huge (and, along with some other stuff, relationship-ending) issue, specifically because of the whole "Well, if you masturbate as well as sex, that's fine. If you masturbate *instead of* sex, then there's a problem." thing...my guy was an "instead" dude. and whenever i'd ask "hey, what's up with that?" i'd get any of a million different brush-off answers, including "i'm too tired," "i just don't want to," "not right now," lah lah lah. but anyway, that type of thing can really help destroy an ego, if it goes on long enough.

i say just as long as you can talk to her about it, explain your position on the matter, and FOR GODS SAKE, KEEP HAVING REAL-LIFE RELATIONS!, she should be able to get comfy with the whole idea of it. just keep it honest and shit.

― the angry cowboy (dick), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that is U&K here, aslong as you are both honest about it, things should be cool. Oh & aslong as it isn't used as a substitute.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

No, no - I'm using Norm's arguement that porn is degrading.

I've known (from memory) only two girls who openly enjoyed porn. Never known any others, though I'm sure there are many. Only known one girl who got hugely offended by it and she was a nutjob anyway.

― C-Man (C-Man), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:35 (twenty-two years ago)

It's the same as some guys like p0rn, some don't. Everybody's different, innit?!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

More FACTS about girls, please.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

They like kittens & chocolate.

― Pinktwee (Pinkpanther), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha, "facts" hahaha

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:44 (twenty-two years ago)

do any girls not like presents from tiffany's? i don't think i've met any...so that's a fact!

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Any girl who has issues with your wanking habits---so long as they're not disrupting your and hers sex life---can go to the curb as far as I'm concerned. I'd be turned on if she confessed that she was masturbating all the time and ideally it should be that way vice versa. I'd be happy that she had a raging sex drive and she should be happy that I have one as well. It's not like there's a daily orgasm limit. (Believe me, for years I've tried and failed to reach it)

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 22 January 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I do.

― luna (luna.c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I think men can distinguish between fantasy and real life, and p0orn is just another form of fantasy. And besides a glossy photo is never, ever going to be the same as a real life naked woman in your arms.

Logged Off, I think that you sound like a very good example of the kind of guy who *does* know the difference between fantasy and real life. You sound like you have a handle on this, and this sounds healthy to me. However, you have only to look around this very forum, in fact this very thread for examples of men who do NOT have a handle on this. One size does not fit all.

Many girls enjoy p0rn. But girls enjoy a quite different kind of p0rn (reminded of the all girl FAP and the Mills & Boon fest) - which in its turn can lead to unreal expectations! If I had been sexually conditioned by M&B I'd *never* be able to be in a fulfilling relationship!

Calum has already proved multiple times on this forum that he is threatened by the very idea of women expressing their sexuality, so the very idea that girls could have p0rn of their own completely blows his tiny mind!

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 17:31 (twenty-two years ago)

i like goat porn

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

now that is a lie

― anthony kiedis (blueski), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

If you and your partner do it in front of each other and together does that count?

― johnnycumlately (Chris V), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:25 (twenty-two years ago)

No, but it's more fun.

― luna (luna.c), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

seconded

― Chris V (Chris V), Thursday, 22 January 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And you're an idiot. I LOVE women expressing their sexuality. I have no problem with women liking porn - when did I say I had any problem with this?

― C-Man (C-Man), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:08 (twenty-two years ago)

You mean this isn't someone pretending to be him? I thought we had hit parody levels.

"Aww, i was thinking of Ned Ragget.."
"Ah well that's okay then love, give us a kiss"

Oh wait, we had. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

You are aware that therapy is available free of charge on the NHS for your entitlement issues, aren't you?

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Judging by his pic Ned is the ugliest guy alive. I now refuse to acknowledge his presence. I don't acknowledge ugly people.

Thankyou, Ned, it's been fun.

River Fleet - I'm bored of this thread. In fact, once ILX was a fun place I went to entertain myself but now I'm actually quite bored. I think i've exhuasted the potential of the place recently.

― C-Man (C-Man), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Calz not know who the river fleet is? ha ha

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I've got so much to do, really. So many other things going on in my life. I only come here when I need a laugh, and I don't really get one from you sorry lot any more. Sure, if what I'm saying were true, there wouldn't be so many posts by me in the archive. And there'll be more from me on this thread, too! I have left ilx more times than anyone and I usually return within the hour. Paradoxically, this is because I actually have so much going on in my life! And because of how worldly I am with respect to the women-folk! You sad lot! I am the only one here who's ever gotten laid! Why I got myself a little while I was typing this up, I did! F*ck you Blount and Ally and Ned and Pashmina and all my enemies! The silent majority, who love me yet dare not speak their love...who now shall sate their need for pointless posts, now that I am taking my leave for at least twenty minutes?

Who, I ask? Who?

― False Calum (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

False Calum has clearly studied more oratory than Real Calum.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Studied more oratory? Maybe those of you who aren't busy chatting up a wee lass over an 'arf-point or three have time to learn long words like "oratory" - good luck to you, then! As for me & my many, many, many friends - so very many friends! - we are 24 hour party people through and through. We don't study oratory, we study the aviary, if you see my meaning!

Whatever will you do without the C-Man? Lucky for you-all you'll never, ever, ever get to find out!

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:40 (twenty-two years ago)

(dude, you forgot to sign out!)

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah i noticed, damn

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

AWESOME

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"Study the aviary". There's another thing I can't believe I laughed that hard at. I need to eat something.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.castlegreen.com/pics/party.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I do this every damn time I start posting under new identities. one of these days i'm gonna figure out where i put the rest of my BRAIN and then everybody's gonna be in some real trouble

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, WTF?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:49 (twenty-two years ago)

(That was actually in response to Jeanne's post but given you being veg, Casuistry, I suppose it doesn't quite work. ;-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 19:51 (twenty-two years ago)

We both wank, which I think is great. Me more often, I'm sure. We both like pr0n, which I think is great. Partly, I think it's a good solution to the fact that I usually want to have sex much more often than she does, so it takes the edge off.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

ever used a plastic doll?

― paulhw (paulhw), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

do you like gladiator movies?

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:17 (twenty-two years ago)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

River Fleet - I'm bored of this thread. In fact, once ILX was a fun place I went to entertain myself but now I'm actually quite bored. I think i've exhuasted the potential of the place recently.

Dreams come true?

― donut bitch (donut), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm beginning to think I should have logged out for that post.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

For '?!' ?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, Ned. And by yes I mean 'no'.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

― ?!, Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Regarding the shower wanker, you have NO idea how loud he was! My other roommate, female, and I would burst into fits of laughter each time it happened and started timing his grunts and groans to see how long it would take him THIS time.

― Psychokitty, Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Mastrubatiuon seems so pathetic to me. The more I read and hear people talk about this subject the more old fashion I seem. I always thought the ideal journey in a "sex life" is for a male and female to be monogamous where all sexual experience is shared between them. Not being weak with ones own body seems to be a great expression of love. I think it's backwards for the deviants to be the people that have enough will power to, for example, remain virgins until marriage or be monogamous.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe I'm too idealistic

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

It's the same as anything else...even if you live someone, you can't spend every moment and wouldn't want to. You need some time to yourself...do you have all your conversations with your partner, or listen to all the same music together? If you do, it seems a bit selfish or dependent.

(hmmm, I just realized that the above could be read as an argument for polygamy as well, which it isn't)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I would argue that sex is not the same as anything else. It's love put in a physical form. whereas as talking and music aren't.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Never written music or made music with other people, have you? Now that is love in a, erm, musical form!

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I love myself.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:10 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, I totally realized that after I typed that in. talking with someone too could be a loving thing. I still think Sex is different, maybe it has to do more with a two becoming one type of thing.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Making music is a more manifest form of love than having sex.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

And we can all listen in on it. Now that's love.

― pete s, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I've had far deeper, longer-lasting and generally more intense relationships with the people that I've made music with than I've had with almost (not entirely all, but close) everyone I've had sex with.

That really says something, doesn't it?

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Not being weak with ones own body seems to be a great expression of love.

Weak? Masturbation is weak? Like, a failing? I don't understand. How can it be a failing if it's something that (almost) every single male person alive does on a regular basis? I have absolutely zero sympathy for your point of view. It's twisted.

maybe I'm too idealistic

No, you're just really, really fucked up.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I said it was an old fashion view. I mean weak as in "if my body is telling me I want to have an orgasm I should have one." but it would take a person with more will power to abstain then give in.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

if i could find a nice 20 mins spare to have a somewhat leisurely wank i probably would, but my life is too full, and i grab every chance i can to be alone with my partner, so to answer the question no i don't.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean weak as in "if my body is telling me I want to have an orgasm I should have one." but it would take a person with more will power to abstain then give in.

In the same way that it would take a person with more willpower to abstain from eating when hungry, yes.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:28 (twenty-two years ago)

And people become overweight if they eat whenever they are hungry.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:29 (twenty-two years ago)

kate OTM!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Overeating and weight gain is a LOT more complicated than that, Nairn.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

And people become overweight if they eat whenever they are hungry.

rubbish - but they might if they eat all the time just for the sake of it.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

No. People become overweight when they eat despite not being hungry. I eat whenever I'm hungry, and I'm very far from being overweight.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is there such a taboo on mastrubation if is as common a thing as eating to many people? Where does that come from? I'm saying my view of this subject is old fashion and approached cautiously. I'm starting from as conservative position and moving in to see what I think. That's not a twisted approach.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

(beaten by trf and tsn)

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

kate OTM!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes apparently high-protein food suppresses your appetite, according to tonight's 'Horizon'.

x-post

― pete s, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

ESOJ, do you think that's why musicians often have such unsatisfactory love lives? Because the diminishing passion of living with a person rarely lives up to the continuing and ever exciting passion of making music.

― the river fleet, Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha 12 xposts!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is there such a taboo on mastrubation if is as common a thing as eating to many people? Where does that come from?

Religion, pious morality. Religious guilt. There are many non-Christian cultures in which masturbation is not taboo. A parallel can be drawn between the fact that the porn industry is ten times the size of the film industry, and yet nobody really ever discusses it in public.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

kate: yeah it's possible! it would explain a lot.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, really, Nairn. Are you seriously this naive?

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Does it even say anywhere in the Bible that Mastrubation is bad?

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:38 (twenty-two years ago)

You either have to make music with the person you love, or make music for them. Well, maybe.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"seriously though, it's almost not even sexual, it's like a comfort thing. like eating a whole pizza. "
if i had been drinking milk when i read that, my nose would still be stinging.

― Felcher (Felcher), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not seriously this naive, I am still fairly young. But I have just recently realized what you said: that nobody really discusses this in public, and I was wondering why.

― A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is there such a taboo on mastrubation if is as common a thing as eating to many people?

but eating is taboo! just look at this board's attitude towards it. ilxors get much more freaked out when food is discussed than when sex is.

― aleksandr supertramp (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

imagine if we mixed the two!!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Does it even say anywhere in the Bible that Mastrubation is bad?

Read Leviticus, masturbation is just the beginning.

I'm not seriously this naive, I am still fairly young.

Just out of interest, how old are you?

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 22 January 2004 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Onan's been seriously misrepresented.

― pete s, Thursday, 22 January 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

People don't really discuss taking shits in public either, but they're completely natural and everyone does it.

I would argue that sex is not the same as anything else. It's love put in a physical form.

It CAN be that. Sometimes it's just fucking, y'know? Pure pleasure.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 22 January 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

You either have to make music with the person you love, or make music for them

And here I thought being in a band with your significant other was #1 on the "What Not to Do If You Want a Happy Life" list!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 22 January 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, there are enough insecurities in any relationship without bring music into it!

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

"seriously though, it's almost not even sexual, it's like a comfort thing. like eating a whole pizza. "

This is my favorite sentence of the day.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 00:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i could really go a whole pizza right now

― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 23 January 2004 00:02 (twenty-two years ago)

What A Nairn said isnt all that twisted really, Andrew. Not if you look at ancient taoist and buddhist beliefs, where it was regarded that for men, their sperm was part of their chi energy, and to waste it was a bad thing, holding out gave them strength. Even during sex, it was regarded better to hold off on orgasm as often as possible to become more virile, etc.

Just another POV :)

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 23 January 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Bah.

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 23 January 2004 00:25 (twenty-two years ago)

This thinking was also present in Ancient Greece, and is, frankly, wide of the mark. We know a lot more about the human body now than we ever have before. Firstly, partaking in masturbating regularly will lower the quantity of testosterone in a man’s body, and hence make him less competitive, unfocused, and aggressive. Secondly, it may provide great health benefits to the prostate gland. If one wants to abstain from sex, feel free, but don’t assume that you’re healthier morally, sexually or even physically.

Here are several links of note:

Flesh
and the Devil.

BBC
Health on Masturbation.

Masturbation
and How It May Prevent Cancer.

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Hooray for science!

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.achewood.com/rsrc/img/sq_science_lg.gif

― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 23 January 2004 01:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Just to clarify about the chi energy thing, it wasn't about 'holding out' as such, the philosophy was/is that sexual energy is a mixture of personal + god-given/spititual and material power, and pure will.
Kundalini and other disciplines are meant to teach you how to channel this in order to increase awareness which you makes you more open to the energies you are recieving (from above and below) and giving out to the world, hence making you less selfish and unfocused.
It also balances the two main life-forces within a person those of contraction and relaxation.
In other words the same effect as an orgasm, but supposedly much greater in effect because the energies are controlled and channelled towards goals based on love and awareness rather than desire, which blocks spiritual growth.

That's the outline of it anyway.

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 01:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks Pete you put it somewhat better than I.

I should point out I wasn't necesarily suggesting the ancients had the right idea - just that such concepts have been around.

I guess its a bit hard for me to know how troublesome it is for guys - even for a female, I'm really quite err... undersexed for want of a better word. I could possibly go much of the rest of my life without any.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

alternate thread:

Do you regularly masturbate someone that you're still in a satisfying sexual relationship with?

― Kim (Kim), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

fuck yeah

― the surface noise (electricsound), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

awww yeah.

― Andrew (enneff), Friday, 23 January 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

"I'm really quite err... undersexed for want of a better word."

This discribes me too. I don't nessicarly think it's bad thing, but when I see all these other people off playing in the sand box it gets me wondering what kind of holes there are digging.

(good links charles)

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:05 (twenty-two years ago)

but the BBC is so unscientific. I'd like to see the Graham Giles research paper though.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:14 (twenty-two years ago)

That particular BBC site is a little… lewd, to say the least, but they can be scientific enough if they want to. Look at BBC Radio 4, for instance (the greatest thing on the web, in my opinion!).

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:24 (twenty-two years ago)

For me they're two different things - masturbation is merely a physical release. Making love is about the intimacy, in my experience.

I'm actually more curious about frequency of masturbation.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Friday, 23 January 2004 06:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Absolutely.

(Xpost - you have to work out which Q I'm answering...)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 23 January 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

This thinking was also present in Ancient Greece, and is, frankly, wide of the mark.

Ah, yes, the ancient Greeks, responsible for such scientifically correct theories as "The sun goes round the earth" and "the earth is the centre of the universe" and "spontaneous generation of maggots from rotting meat".

I just don't want to know about any religion that denies the flesh, or tries to focus your attentions on some kind of otherworldly gain. Classic misdirection.

― the river fleet, Friday, 23 January 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

My whole life is about masturbation--physical, mental, social, artistic, spiritual...wankety-wank, wankety-wank, Easter's on it's wankity-way!

See, I just proved my own wankety-statement! wank-wank!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

You too can get a wankety-wank wankbook & pen!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

i had a go at 4am this morning.

― Chris V (Chris V), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

*applauds*

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

No. People become overweight when they eat despite not being hungry. I eat whenever I'm hungry, and I'm very far from being overweight

I sometimes masturbate even when my body isn't telling me i need an orgasm. that make me feel like my mind has full control over my body.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:34 (twenty-two years ago)

erm, river fleet, i'm not going to let you get away with that shoddy calling-out of the Greeks (i have some greek blood), not when without them we'd be worshipping nameless deities and toiling under the subjugation of a god-king (i'm sure you know your stuff all about them, just objecting mildly)

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

If you were to draw a graph of my s/o's libido, against time, it wd probably look like a 28-day-long sinewave, with the downward bits coinciding w/PMT. if you were to superimpose my libido-graph over it, it wd probably also look like a sine wave, but offset from the other one a bit. Where both are high = the happiest time. That mine sometimes = higher that her's = the reason why my answer to the thread question = "yes".

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Nairn is indeed fucked up. Being undersexed may make you wonder what all the fuss is about, but you surely have enough of a comprehension of sensual pleasures (fucking, eating, drinking, that feeling you get when you slip into a cool bed) to understand why it is both normal and great for most people?

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 23 January 2004 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, the Greeks were all about the flesh. Especially the young boy-flesh.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

euw greek style lovin'!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

not when without them we'd be worshipping nameless deities and toiling under the subjugation of a god-king

Without the Greeks, we wouldn't have The Roman Empire. Or the Gnostification (is that even a word?) of Christianity. So I'd be living in a Celtic British Isles, under a Queen like Boudiccea (heck, I might even BE a Queen like Boudicea) and worshipping a lovely wonderful all-encompassing mother goddess and drinking mead and having orgies, so there, nyeah nyeah nyeah, evil greeks, feh.

― the river fleet, Friday, 23 January 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

euw greek style lovin'!

kebab shop owner: "hey lady you like mint sauce on your doner kebab?"

― loggedout, Friday, 23 January 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

river fleet in 'i hate civillization' shockah

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sure I know who you are Mr Out!
x-post

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Civilisation killed my dog.

― the river fleet, Friday, 23 January 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

awww!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 23 January 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Appropriate or inappropriate that an impromptu discussion of the ancient greeks is happening on a masturbation thread

(then again a quarter of threads are masturbation threads so the chances are increased)

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

the ancient greek masturbated too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

(i'm sure)

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 15:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Bjork once said something to this effect. Something like writing a song with someone is more intimate than having sex with them.

― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 23 January 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

they masturbated each other dude

x-post

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

but some of them surely must masturbate on their own regularly even when they're in a satisfying mutual masturbatory relationship with someone!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Bjork once said something to this effect. Something like writing a song with someone is more intimate than having sex with them.

Evelyn Waugh went one step further in Vile Bodies, didn’t he? I believe Nina Blount said,

All this fuss about sleeping together. For physical pleasure I'd sooner go to my dentist any day.

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Uh, no, that's not it at all. The Vile Bodies quote is about a woman who is disinterested in sex. I'm not disinterested in sex, sex is great. Just that there are more intimate and powerful connections in life. Going to the dentist is not one of them.

It's the difference between "Sex is so boring I'd rather go to the dentist" and "ohmigod, making music is so amazing, it might actually be better than sex!"

― the river fleet, Friday, 23 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but you’re missing the point of the quote. She wasn’t disinterested in sex, per se, the sex she had simply wasn’t very good (presumably a lack of orgasm was implied -- isn’t it always?).

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 17:17 (twenty-two years ago)

and she finds intimacy in going to the dentist?

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 17:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, at least she’s getting something out of the experience.

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

"Let me scrape your teeth."
"Soulmate."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 23 January 2004 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Regardless, it's still not the same as what I (and ESOJ and Bjork) are describing.

― the river fleet, Friday, 23 January 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.imi.org.uk/mar2002/Hand.jpg

Talk to the hand.

― Charles Hatcher (musenheddo), Friday, 23 January 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Mmmm. We clearly know your answer to the thread question now.

― pete s, Friday, 23 January 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

is that dead skin peeling off or dried up bits of protein?

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 23 January 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

"surely have enough of a comprehension of sensual pleasures (fucking, eating, drinking, that feeling you get when you slip into a cool bed) to understand why it is both normal and great for most people?"

You are assuming sensual pleasure is better than a nonsensual pleasure. I feel that sensual pleasure is very temporary and therefore not as good as something more spiritual or mental which is much less temporary. I would even think that too much sensual pleasure takes away from other pleasure.

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 23 January 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

You aren't American, are you, Nairn.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 23 January 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

well, I am. But I do see how what I'm saying is very unAmerican. I'm just basing what I'm saying from personal experience instead of from what I'm told or what I hear. I like it much better when my pleasure level is steady and fairly high (when it's just how I approach life) more then having it fluctuate so much. (when it's dependent on my senses)

― A Nairn (moretap), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Why can't you have and appreciate both types of pleasure? You seem to be operating under the 'what goes up must come down' assumption. You can have a base level of happiness ('steady and fairly high') AND then occasionally have bursts of sensual pleasure. It's not an either/or type thing.

― oops (Oops), Friday, 23 January 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

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