Big Ron does a Kilroy...

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but ALL all races are united in lamenting the loss of a commentating legend

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3648051.stm

schoolboy error?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

Gosh. It's a bit hard to know how to react when I don't know what he said. Ananova seem to have removed the story.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:00 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, OK it seems to be there now, but like the BBC, doesn't give details.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:02 (twenty years ago) link

"I was one of the first managers in the game to give black players a chance"

Is it me or does this read really badly?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Ron's from the old school. Yes, it reads badly.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:07 (twenty years ago) link

That is true, but Ron did refer to Cyrille Regis, Laurie Cunningham and Brendan Batson as "The Three Degrees", which does undo a lot of that good work.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:11 (twenty years ago) link

Ok, this from This Is Lincolnshire, of all places:

The comments were understood to have been directed at Chelsea's Marcel Desailly, who is black. Atkinson is believed to have called the defender a "f***ing lazy nigger".

http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=116154&command=displayContent&sourceNode=116153&contentPK=9672009

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:12 (twenty years ago) link

!!!

Ron this is totally unacceptable!!!

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:15 (twenty years ago) link

I'm ashamed to say I am actually laughing out loud. Jesus Christ.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

Oh dear oh dear, he's ruined it now.

― Barry Davies (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

Good old Lincolnshire Echo, starring out all the right words.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

I can't believe even Ron would do this.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

that starring it top nothc.

I can't believe it, either. I thought it would be slightly less offensive even if it was still really offensive.

nick has me thinking like 'kim possible': 'ron acceptable'.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:21 (twenty years ago) link

I wonder if he will get a good drink out of his retirement package?

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

This does not compare with the time he was heard to say "are there any sandwiches"

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:28 (twenty years ago) link

I was about to post about how the formatting of the offending phrase had me in stitches but of course N beat me to it.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago) link

"any fucking sandwiches," ronan.
you know i honestly think with ron, saying "lazy nigger" would be like caling scholes a "lazy ginga." which is not to say he should say it, but... there are some battles worth fighting, and some not.

this really is a pity. i hope he can make some donation to charity or something and get back on tv, it's the whole world's loss. i cannot think of anyone in the media world today who has quite the same way with the neologism.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link

As I recall, he was one of the big outspoken supporters of black players when many people were still making cretinous racist generalisations about them, so this is particularly disappointing. I suppose what Matthew means might be that he's of a generation that probably grasps a little less well how horrible that is, but even that only reduces the offence by a few percent, say - it's still way beyond the line where some donation to charity gets him his job back, for me. It's a shame, as I've always enjoyed him as a commentator, and never spotted any sign of racism, any difference in the way he discussed black and white players.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago) link

Does calling someone a racial epithet automatically make you a racist?

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not sure he shouldn't be allowed to make an apology and return. I guess it's just hard to believe he's maliciously racist.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:51 (twenty years ago) link

(minute's silence)

Now all that's over, what's a Kilroy? Is it the same as a Matthew Kelly. If so, what's a Matthew Kelly? Sorry, I've been in France with all the fucking Frogs. Oops.

― Will McKenzie, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:52 (twenty years ago) link

that is pretty much what i'm saying, martin. i don't think he should use the word, but i can't be convinced from that usage that he's a racist.
i've always had a problem with this sort of thing. i do'nt want innocuous but striking statements like i believe ron made to be censured. on the other hand, one man like ron might influence another like (gulp) lee bowyer, and we really don't want any more fucking bowyers about.
i think, much like the discipline we should have with children, if they say sorry and they appear to mean it, then we ought to forgive.

(this really happened - a pakistani friend of mine was out with a chinese friend of his, will. will saw martin, also chinese, across the road, but martin didn't notice will. will said to my pakistani friend, "i can't believe martin didn't see me!" my pakistanie friend said, "oh don't worry, you all look alike to him.
obviously that's not a racist joke, that's a joke about racism.)

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 19:55 (twenty years ago) link

Matthew, if the quote is accurate, what Big Ron said is a bit more than just a "innocuous(sic) but striking statement"

I imagine that after a while, most football managers begin to develop a kind of master-slave relationship w/ players: Ron perhaps has simply laid open an institutional sporting attitude toward the ownership+control of bodies that is often, but not always or exclusively, racist. Ron's rhetoric, of course, sadly feeds into the foul old myth that black football players are skillful but greedy/lazy/moody/afraid of the cold, and all that shit

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

i understand that as a possibility but it seems particularly unlikely to me, especially given modern football where you have the industrious sorts of viera and campbell and desailly leading the defences of the top teams in the country. it basically comes down to the fact that i don't believe ron is a bad man, only that he said a bad word because he isn't as fully schooled in its badness as us younger sorts.

an institutional sporting attitude toward the ownership+control of bodies
i'm not sure of this - most managers want "charachter" as much as they want obedience.

granted though, innocuous was not the right word to use there. i meant that he didn't use it with the full baggage of wanting to employ those stereotypes.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:13 (twenty years ago) link

My friendster profile is named Big Ron, yet this thread is not about me. :O(

― |OBEY|EYE|BO| (deangulberry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago) link

the foul old myth that black football players are skillful but greedy/lazy/moody/afraid of the cold, and all that shit

Surely that myth concerns foreign players, not specifically black players. For whatever that's worth.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:24 (twenty years ago) link

It probably does nowadays. Back in the late 70's and 80's, any black player who was getting grief from racist fans/players etc and complained about it would be accused of having a chip on their shoulder. Shorthand for greedy/lazy/moody/black.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

But I think Ron was a real opponent of that attitude back then - that's why this has surprised me.

Nigger hasn't become an unacceptable word recently. It was a loathsome insult 'even' in the '60s, which is as far back as I can confidently remember. That's why I said Ron's different generation makes only a small difference.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 20:47 (twenty years ago) link

Ron's favourite player ever is Dalian Atkinson. Look at his jewellery, too - he's a 'brother'! Or something.

Oh Ron. A fool in every direction.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:16 (twenty years ago) link

Radio Five Live is riddled with people using the (ridiculous) phrase "the 'N' word".

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:37 (twenty years ago) link

what should they say?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:38 (twenty years ago) link

Clearly they should say "NIGGER! NIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGERNIGGER! HA HA!" and then hang up.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago) link

That's TalkSport.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:42 (twenty years ago) link

Hmmmmm, I wonder what ill-thought out statement by a famous football pundit will win this competition:

http://www.thinkclear.co.uk/Expressions/

― Jim paper-jam, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

PWN£D!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:16 (twenty years ago) link

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1200319,00.html

i may have to rescind some of my earlier comments

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

What made the difference?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:26 (twenty years ago) link

because he called him thick?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

(Thanks to my previous post, I now have a particularly virulent variation of "Born Slippy" running through my head.)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

(I think that the fact that he chose to hand in his resignation and is so publicly penitent without qualification speaks as many volumes as the fact that he made the statement.)

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:36 (twenty years ago) link

"lazy fucking nigger" sounds off hand (not acceptable) and i've heard people use words like that who i know aren't hateful people.
the "some schools" thing is a stiletto in the eye. it sounds like he thought about what he said.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:38 (twenty years ago) link

you're accusing ron of being a transvestite as well as a racist? maybe you could get him to apologise about that, too.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:41 (twenty years ago) link

no, no, the lesson we must all learn from this dreadful incident which shames us all is that we must respect one anothers differences.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:44 (twenty years ago) link

I just wish he hadn't said it, regardless of his real thoughts on race.

Now loads of people will be like "Ahh, poor Ron, hounded out by the poncey liberal elite", which will only fuel racism. But if he hadn't gone, then there would be an uproar at it being condoned, and fair enough - it would have sent a horrible message.

His apologising unreservedly makes the best of a bad job, really.

*sigh*

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:46 (twenty years ago) link

i think we should try to remember happier times by going over classic ron quotes.

"ooh, he's circumnavigated him there..."

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:53 (twenty years ago) link

On another forum, it's being pointed out that a recent interview in Observer Sport Monthly said Ron held 'forthright views on asylum seekers'. He is also apparently got a rep for being free and easy with racial epithets; he once 'had a good laugh' with cyrille Regis by saying that Cyril, in his wolves kit, looked like a bruised banana.

Bigot Ron has also said that he apologises for what is 'purported to be a racist remark'. Purported? Samuel L Jackson could say the original remark and it not be racist. Big Ron's not a pimp in the hood, thought he is blinged up to the max.

The sad thing is that I never thought this of him - this isn't a moment of madness which tarnishes a career (Big Ron laid low by off-the cuff remark and the PC brigade) , but something that makes you reevaluate that career as you reevaluate the man. He had to go. No question.

x-post with N.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

I didn't want to disagree with the folk upthread without facts to hand, but this 'purported' thing has made me change my mind. I'm sure I've heard him make dodgy commentary remarks before. Not like this, obviously, but just weird little jokes, grouping black players together with a kind of 'one of the black lads' remark. Maybe it was Motson or someone, but I don't think so. Anyway.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

I wish 'bigot ron' had been less inevitable or that I had realised that it was before it happened.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:01 (twenty years ago) link

where does it say the purported thing? because it's loking increasingly like i am absolutely wrong, which i will accept with good grace.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:03 (twenty years ago) link

Perhaps the Guardian could re-employ this soon-to-be-notorious 'Bigot Ron' in a new, hilariously ironic capacity, like they've done with Ann Widdecombe and the problem page.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:05 (twenty years ago) link

To be fair to the big fella, 'purportedly' sounds like one of those words with which he'd pepper a sentence without really thinking what it means.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:06 (twenty years ago) link

they could call the column 'Don't Worry Mate, I'm Just Having a Laugh.'

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:07 (twenty years ago) link

Thing is, if he's been caught this one time by Middle Eastern TV not turning down the audio feed, it would suggest that he's said this kind of thing to his studio colleagues. I suppose you can't really blame them for not reporting him, but it does leave a rather nasty taste in the mouth. Maybe they're all at it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:09 (twenty years ago) link

none of you think he ever knows what he's saying. why do you value his commentary?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:09 (twenty years ago) link

Supposed to be a 'before' at the end of my first sentence.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:10 (twenty years ago) link

RJG, the greatest art has elusive and fluid meaning.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago) link

ah, it is an art, to you. racism is an art. you really disgust me. please resign.

you don't have to be racist, to enjoy his commentary, it just helps.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:13 (twenty years ago) link

It is sad. We all treasure the old stalwarts, the Atkinsons, the Jimmy Hills, the Harry Redknapps etc. because they'rec an authentic link to football's past in this country. Some of them, like Redknapp, still have something to offer. But we like to imagine they've buried the olde worlde baggage they come with. I usually assume they haven't myself, they're just too experienced to let anything slip on tv.
Redknapp's said some dodgy things. David Pleat's racist, but too stupid to understand that he is.

― de, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:13 (twenty years ago) link

I do not treasure Jimmy Hill.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:14 (twenty years ago) link

OK, I do. What does he do these days, anyway?

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:15 (twenty years ago) link

Doesn't he still do his Sky show, set 'chez Jimmy', on Sundays?
I haven't watched it in a while, no access to Sky.

― de, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:17 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, bloody Sky.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:19 (twenty years ago) link

ah, it is an art, to you. racism is an art. you really disgust me. please resign.

you shouldn't be flippant with those sorts of accusations, it doesn't help anyone.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

Purported - taken from another board.

However, Guardian is reported he said of Desailly 'He's what is known in some schools as a fucking lazy thick nigger.'*

He also was caught out calling Tottie a 'little twat' on air 18 mkonths ago.

* - That'd be those fee-paying schools. Runs for cover

x-post what does Redknapp have to offer apart from [removed due to better judgement]?

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:24 (twenty years ago) link

Beating Man Yoo is something we can all appreciate.
Except Swygart obviously.

― de, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:27 (twenty years ago) link

'arry did get pompey promoted, too. and has a nice line in looking completely stoned all the time.

oh which subject, it would be great if english managers smoked fags all the time like italian ones.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:29 (twenty years ago) link

Only because it'd mean most of them died before they hit 60.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:30 (twenty years ago) link

it still seems strange to see big sam without a pint of tetleys, even though i've never seen him with one.

― matthew james (matthew james), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:31 (twenty years ago) link

He's got two milky pints under his jumper

― I hate myself, Wednesday, 21 April 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago) link

If it had been David Crosby, you'd be calling for him to be lynched by now.

The amount for slack that is cut in the UK for anything football related in pretty amazing.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Thursday, 22 April 2004 05:46 (twenty years ago) link

David Crosby from The Byrds? I've been calling for him to be lynched ever since he wore a smock on the cover of Fifth Dimension. Although obviously I haven't, because it came out 14 years before I was born.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 07:37 (twenty years ago) link

I was thinking earlier that it might have been a studio tech who'd got pissed off with commentary such as the above, who could then have left the mike open. If this kind of thing is endemic amongst commentators, I'd certainly be well hacked off if I was lowly scum who couldn't complain for fear of my job. But I dunno, it might just be a mistake.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Thursday, 22 April 2004 07:49 (twenty years ago) link

"I never comment on black players and I'm not going to break the habit of a lifetime for that lazy thick nigger".

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 07:56 (twenty years ago) link

Ron was always the co-commentator who studied the game off-screen. By that I mean he was looking at formation, shape etc which wasn't being captured by the camera. You need that.

It's a shame. But no question, he had to go.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 07:58 (twenty years ago) link

Hahaha whilst watching Room 101 we realised that Gareth had actually nicked his brown "thing" from style guru BIG RON.

HOW WE LARFFED.

― Sarah (starry), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:06 (twenty years ago) link

He was also saying during the commentary that Lampard, terry, Parker and Bridge looked up for it. But Desailly, Crespo, Veron, Hasselbaink didn't.

See what he's doing there?

On a related note, my Turkish taxi driver last night said to me 'I'm not racist, but Jews and blacks can't drive.'

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:15 (twenty years ago) link

Bigot Ron Cars is already up and running? He's a resourceful man.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:25 (twenty years ago) link

I noticed that thing with the English players... (but with the exception of Crespo he was actually right, annoyingly)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:27 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not convinced Crespo was an exception apart from for about 20 minutes.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:34 (twenty years ago) link

Actually Gudjohnsson looked pretty sharp until the formation change as well.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:38 (twenty years ago) link

They all looked shite when the formation changed.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:40 (twenty years ago) link

Taxi drivers in Istanbul can drive. God, can they drive! (If you have ever been in one there, or about to, you'd better pray they all can. Suffice to say, our party of people always made for the back seats rather than the fron one)...

That's got nothing to do with ron, but thereyergo

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:44 (twenty years ago) link

Perhaps Ron was drunk. I've always equated his face with that of a drinker.

Not that this excuses what he said, but I know I've done some stupid things when drunk, like go to the Borderline.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:48 (twenty years ago) link

well, being from the north of england i know people of atkinson's generation, many of them lifelong socialists and extremely political who still use words like p/-\k1 and n1gger routinely. it's frustrating and ludicrous that they can't see how wrong it is. interestingly atkinson was on a repeat of room 101 last night talking about housework and how it was "one of the reasons - oh no, one of the many reasons women are put on this earth". this is pretty indicative of what a belligerent old dinosaur he is. i don't necessarily think he's right up there with the aryan nation or anything, and he's always seemed quite affable and funny, but there's no excuse for this at all. sometimes people need to say this stuff, though, just to show that no matter how much we like to think we live in a happy racially integrated world and all the big battles have been won, we don't and they haven't. this stuff is still pretty entrenched in some minds. also it shows silly old sods like atkinson that it's not acceptable.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:48 (twenty years ago) link

see back of my mind i still wish that ron may have been just trying to be hip with the kids and he was in fact just doing ghetto-speak. (yo don't be a lazy nigger y'all etc)

but somehow i doubt it :(

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:48 (twenty years ago) link

Stelfox OTM regarding northern men of a certain age.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:51 (twenty years ago) link

Yo, whassup, we're gonna go get crunk with Big Ron - holla back at me!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:52 (twenty years ago) link

Fuck's sake, you get all that shit down South too, you know. Maybe not in London, so much, but elsewhere.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:54 (twenty years ago) link

stelfox otm. it's sad that with a lot of (esp older) folks it's hard to change the old ways of thinking when it's basically what you've grown up learning all those years. but i'm happy that at least as a society i think most people are now conscious (at least) that this kind of things just ain't fair game.

(also ron was a pretty shit commentator really.. ronnisms excepted)

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:54 (twenty years ago) link

I seem to remember Corentin Martins being brought on for Inter in the Champions League last year and Ron was utterly enthused, like "THEY'RE GONNA THROW HIGH BALLS AT THE TWO BIG LADS ETC ETC, THIS IS GONNA BE SOMETHING". It was slightly odd, I forget if the other striker was black, that's just what sprung to mind when N said he remembered Ron making iffy comments.

He was full of vaguely unsavoury stuff on that Room 101, his comments about physios were particularly wrongheaded, but they were amusing when I saw it. I can't help but feel this incident will change all his quirks from "quaint and funny" to "prehistoric and useless", as his popularity bombs.

X-post, "ATLANTA GEORGIA, BIG RON, LITTLE JON, ELEPHANT MAN, 2004," god that would be amazing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:55 (twenty years ago) link

N. OTM too - you get it in Devon for sure, however down here, because of the lack of racial and ethnic groups, it's a very different thing. I can only really comment on Yorkshire and Devon.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:56 (twenty years ago) link

i only know about my family and where i'm from nick it's more prevalent than anywhere else i know - i guess that's because of class mobility etc. in the north most of my family and older family friends are working-class, whereas in the south most of the people of ron's generation that i know are fairly middle-class parents of friends etc. that's not to say that it doesn't exist across classes, it's just that in some circles it's vocalized in others it's not.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 08:58 (twenty years ago) link

oh i thought his stuff about physios and moaning footballers was great. fuck's sake, if i could earn £100,000 for just one week i'd be positively thankful for any arthritis i may get.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:01 (twenty years ago) link

Well that's it exactly - you move in different kinds of circles to your old family life. Sorry - I know you're the Northerner and I shouldn't be getting on a high horse, but I don't like propagating the notion that the North is substantially worse on this score than anywhere else.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:03 (twenty years ago) link

"the ideal physio, FOR ME, leans out the door of the treatment room with a fag on, so noone can get in"

with a FAG ON. I had too many spliffs ON the other night and my lungs are killing me.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:05 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, there are a lot of factors at play, but i do generally think that the vocalization aspect is a bit worse in the north than the south. just a culture thing, not to say the attitudes are much different, just that i don't *hear* them as much.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:09 (twenty years ago) link

On a related note, my Turkish taxi driver last night said to me 'I'm not racist, but Jews and blacks can't drive.'

How can he tell they're Jewish?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:13 (twenty years ago) link

Honk if you're Jewish.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:14 (twenty years ago) link

they're driving badly??

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:14 (twenty years ago) link

They're driving Volvos, obviously.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:17 (twenty years ago) link

He never sees them driving Friday night perhaps.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:19 (twenty years ago) link

I am of the considered opinion that no matter what race you are, getting behind the wheel of a cab immediately turns you into a bigot. Eastern European drivers are, especially amongst themselves, among the most racist people I've ever come across. After one particular journey with Slavic cabbie in New York my head was spinning with sheer hate overload. It's happened a few times in East London, too. The worst I ever heard, though, was an East African driver referring Nigerians as "fucking monkeys". That narrowly beat the white black-cab driver who picked me up in Dalston and opened up with talk of the local council elections. He said: "Well, guess who I'm voting for?" I put my head in my hands and told him I didn't want to talk poltics but before I put my headphones on he'd piped up and said "BNP, mate." I couldn't let this go and said: "Well that makes you a fucking ignorant cunt, then." He threw me out of the cab and i was late.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:28 (twenty years ago) link

Dave Stelfox otm but I happened to hear a Glasgow cabbie on the radio today - a White Muslim convert married to a black woman, I kid you not!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:31 (twenty years ago) link

I heard him too - he was great. My most racist cab driver incident was in my parents' local village in Oxfordshire. A propos of nothing he said "So, bet you get a real problem with blacks in London". I'm afraid I needed to catch my train and so murmured disapproval rather than calling him a cunt. He was apparently very good to my grandfather too, blah blah.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:32 (twenty years ago) link

but the thing is, you're only going to notice the cabbies who are saying these things. There are probably thousands of normal, not bigoted Eastern European/east african/whereever cabbies who have taken you home but you hadn't noticed because they didn't say anything controversal.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:33 (twenty years ago) link

Ghanaian cab drivers are my fave - they're ace, especially late at night when you're a bit drunk. They're usually dead friendly and tuned into wicked highlife pirate stations that I can never, ever find on my tuner at home.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:34 (twenty years ago) link

This thread actually reminded me of the last time I heard such a thing said, in a cab on the way to the airport last time I was in London. I was small-talking football with the guy and then out of the blue he goes "ah but of course Heskey isn't delivering the goods, black players can't get the idea of being in a team or following a gameplan"

I can't understand how anyone could even think such nonsense! I mean it's not as if there's a shortage of brilliant footballers who are black.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:34 (twenty years ago) link

what was they glasgow guy on the radio for?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:46 (twenty years ago) link

Talking about Big(ot) Ron of course

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:48 (twenty years ago) link

oh right, do you reckon they chose him specifically because he was such an anomaly to the usual cab-driver rule!?

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:51 (twenty years ago) link

He phoned in - probably because he was such an anomaly to the usual cab-driver rule

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:53 (twenty years ago) link

anyway, i'd like to make it clear i "give cab drivers a chance" on an almost daily basis.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:54 (twenty years ago) link

but they're lazy fuckers

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 09:59 (twenty years ago) link

... who pretend they don't know where they're going

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:00 (twenty years ago) link

well, being from the north of england i know people of atkinson's generation
that's exactly where i'm drawing my thoughts from, being a yorkshireman. my dad's made racist jokes but, he makes curries and things and takes bits of them to the pakistani ownned shop round the other end of town to see whether he's getting it right. which doesn't mean i like some of the stuff he's said, but it means i do know that he does not have any bad feeling at all toward pakistani people because i've seen how he's interacted with them.

there's another article at the guardian now - http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1200646,00.html - where he does sound like the confused old guy i'm thinking of. but i still quite square it with the full harshness of the phrase.

the cab drivers are astonishing. ocne i'd had to cal the train comany for fucking up on connections and making me miss the last train, so they put on a cab from guildford to waterloo. there's was meant to be a guy with my name on a bit of paper but i didn't spot him, i go outside and find the cab, but the cabbie needed the bit of paper, so he calls and asks. a minute or two later turns up a black guy in uniform and one of those huge flourescent safety jackets and it's all squared up. as we set off i say, sorry mate, i didn't spot him. cabbie says "nah mate, you wouldn't unless he's smiling. and that's not being mean, that's not being mean.."

― matthew james (matthew james), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:20 (twenty years ago) link

...I had that Big Ron in the back of me cab once.

I got a dodgy cab back home the other night. I live right by the River Lea in London and he was amazed. He got out and went and stood on the towpath. "A river? Here?"

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:22 (twenty years ago) link

"A river of blood? Here?"

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:37 (twenty years ago) link

but, he makes curries and things and takes bits of them to the pakistani ownned shop round the other end of town to see whether he's getting it right

i love that.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:43 (twenty years ago) link

That is great, aye.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:43 (twenty years ago) link

and he does this in a part of town where it's not usually clever for white people to go, too.

― matthew james (matthew james), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:45 (twenty years ago) link

Ron's defence was naive

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:52 (twenty years ago) link

I think you can put that down to cynicism.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:53 (twenty years ago) link

Can we also mention that Makelele dived to get that bloke sent off, hit the bloke as much as the bloke hit him, and that Desailly did properly elbow that other chap in the face?

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:55 (twenty years ago) link

The big lad Atko has let ITV down, he's let ITV viewers down but most of all he's let himslef down.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:55 (twenty years ago) link

We used to have a National Front ambulanceman in our village. I once saw his National Front newspaper. On the front page was a scathing exposé of limbo dancing. I suppose if we'd had taxis he'd have been a taxi driver, but there's not much call for them except to transport the cows from one trough to another.

When I started reading this thread I was surprised how much I like Big Ron, but it's starting to wear off a bit.

Who will replace him? I vote for Tommy Docherty.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:58 (twenty years ago) link

Oh no, not Docherty, that lying toerag

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 10:59 (twenty years ago) link

Mary! Come back to me!

― Laurie Brown (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:04 (twenty years ago) link

What does this whole thing say about Clive Tyldesley? Do he and the rest of ITV "lads" just sit around sniggering when Big Ron starts up his lovable racist banter?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:05 (twenty years ago) link

Andy Townsend!

"So Andy, 3-1 down against ten men - did Ranieri get his tactics wrong?"
"No Clive, not at all"

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:06 (twenty years ago) link

That's what I was saying, Dadaismus. You do start to wonder.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:11 (twenty years ago) link

You'd assume the loveable racist banter wasn't a regular occurrance, unless someone leaked this particular instance to the media to force Atkinson's resignation.

Will the Guardian sack him as well? He does Big Ron's Chalkboard for the sports section.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:17 (twenty years ago) link

It wasn't leaked, it was actually broadcast to some viewers in the Middle East - apparently

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:18 (twenty years ago) link

he can go write for the daily mail instead

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

Isn't Big Ron the only decent thing about the Guardian's footie coverage?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

I'm sure they will. They implied as much in their statement last night.

You'd assume the loveable racist banter wasn't a regular occurrance, unless someone leaked this particular instance to the media to force Atkinson's resignation.

I don't follow this.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago) link

What I mean is if this isn't an isolated incident, and he's spouting racist nonsense off-camera all the time why wait so long to sack him?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:21 (twenty years ago) link

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1200707,00.html

― matthew james (matthew james), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:22 (twenty years ago) link

Because it was never broadcast before.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:23 (twenty years ago) link

Ah, didn't realise it had actually gone out live in the Middle East.

"It was a great time. I think there's more racial prejudice now than there was then, though we used to make them sit on the back of the bus going to away games. We all used to laugh and joke about it. Cyrille [Regis] would say, 'If you don't stop giving me stick I'm going to buy a house next door to you'," he said in a recent interview.

And so Big Ron really does prove himself not to have a fucking clue.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:29 (twenty years ago) link

we used to make them sit on the back of the bus going to away games

WTF?!?!?!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:32 (twenty years ago) link

We used to have a National Front ambulanceman in our village. I once saw his National Front newspaper. On the front page was a scathing exposé of limbo dancing.

Limbo dancing! That great threat to the English way of life. No wonder they attract pig thick scumbags with investigative reporting of that calibre.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:35 (twenty years ago) link

I want to know what was scathingly exposed.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:37 (twenty years ago) link

well the nf is hardly a great threat to english life now either - i think it has a bout 4 members. not as much of a prob as it used to be.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:40 (twenty years ago) link

Something along the lines of "They intend to limbo under our doors and impregnate our women" perhaps?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:41 (twenty years ago) link

nicking our limboing jobs

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:41 (twenty years ago) link

www.ronglish.com has remained strangely quite on the issue so far.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

Curse those lewd rythyms.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:44 (twenty years ago) link

A white person has just moved in next door to me in Hackney. It's awful. He's up all night listening to indie music and eating fish & chips. What is this country coming to?

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:48 (twenty years ago) link

that's me - minus the indie rock and the fish and chips. side issue: if you can tell me where there's a good chippie in hackney apart from faulkners in dalston i'll hug you

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 11:51 (twenty years ago) link

He's a loose cannon. Do you remember about three months agon on The Premier when he said that Walker was quite entitled to "chin" the Leicester fan who ran on. After the break Gaby Yorath said she'd just like to point out that The Premier did not condone violence.

― Baravelli. (Jake Proudlock), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:09 (twenty years ago) link

They're all much of a muchness from my experience, although the one at the top of Southwold Road in Upper Clapton does fat boy portions.

Alternatively, get a 38 to Victoria. Take the train to Wareham in Dorset and then a bus to Swanage, there is a fine one called Da Plaice which does great chips and veggie sausages in batter.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:14 (twenty years ago) link

Racism is evidenced by his comment; if he'd have said 'Desailly's a fucking stupid lazy cunt', I'd have thought - bang on. Don't know about thick, but take your word for it. It's the needlessness of the racist epithet that makes it racist. Obv. point I know, but there you go.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:16 (twenty years ago) link

Would there be an equivalent outcry if he'd used the words "lazy Frenchie"?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, make that "lazy frog".

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

No.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:19 (twenty years ago) link

Remember, on his "that Totti's a little twat" outburst last year, he also made reference to "the fucking krauts".

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:21 (twenty years ago) link

I wonder what Desailly makes of all this? Probably hasn't got up yet, the lazy sod.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:21 (twenty years ago) link

it wouldn't be good, but it wouldn't be *as bad*....the lareger the grouping of ppl your epithet describes, the worst the abuse seems. So one based on nationality is a bad thing, but not as bad as one based on race.

― MarkH (MarkH), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:21 (twenty years ago) link

Casual racism towards Germans seem pretty de rigeur amongst English football pundits

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:23 (twenty years ago) link

2 world wars and 1 world cup innit.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:33 (twenty years ago) link

You can never get a seat in German football stadiums because the Germans get up early and reserve them with beach towels.

Such is the stereotype.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:35 (twenty years ago) link

personally, i find inter-european bitching perfectly acceptable. it's based on cultural differences etc, not race and calling someone a frog is an entirely different matter to describing someone as a n1gger. in any case, the english are pretty similar to the germans, really, and not too different from the french. plus there's something about a war or something a few years ago, so i'm led to believe...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:45 (twenty years ago) link

Does that mean it's OK for me to dislike Welsh people because they're smelly and rude? That GLC song hasn't helped.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

the english are pretty similar to the germans

That's what the rest of us have been telling you for years! Ha ha

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

well, it's not acceptable, it's daft but it's more stupid ribbing than virulent racial prejudice.

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 22 April 2004 12:47 (twenty years ago) link

Germans are like the English, only better. Though not at football for one glorious night in Sept 01 etc

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:22 (twenty years ago) link

"I was one of the first managers in the game to give black players a chance"

Is it me or does this read really badly?

Not as bad as his restatement in that Guardian article:

"I have worked with more black players, I would think, than any other manager in the country and I bet none of them has ever heard me say it to them."

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:27 (twenty years ago) link

I wonder how far you would have to go back in time for Ron to say what he did and get away with it.

Viv Anderson played for England in when? 1979? 1980?

THAT IS ONLY 24 YEARS AGO!

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:31 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, but things were better then. Fewer blacks, for one thing.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:35 (twenty years ago) link

Viv Anderson stands proud and tall knowing he is the first black man to play for England. Then goes and blows it by having a girl's name.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:39 (twenty years ago) link

Like Viv Richards? You fancy telling Viv Richards he's got a girl's name.... I don't

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

And Vivian off The Young Ones!

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:44 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe it's just me, but Bigot Ron sounds like a spectacularly low-selling Transformer.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:51 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, Optimus Prime, you really have gambled all your eggs THIS TIME *manaical laughter*

― Bigotron (Matt DC), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:52 (twenty years ago) link

Voice over by Sir John Gielgud

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 22 April 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago) link

The NF objected to the teaching of limbo dancing to white kids because it was diluting their Englishness or whatever. Sorry I can't be more specific, it was a very long time ago. Before the BNP existed, I think, so there were more than four members at the time, although only one card-carrier in our village, as far as I know. His kids were very proud of him. That song 'Racist Friend' is a bit unnecessary, it should go, 'if you have a racist friend, don't worry, 'cos they'll stop talking to you if you stop on at school, you big ponce.'

Apparently Big Ron said, 'he's what's known in some schools as a lazy...blah blah' which is technically different to saying, 'he is a lazy... blah blah', although not all that different, I suppose.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 22 April 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

So Bigotron was merely being a good journalist and reporting how Desailly might be described in "some schools" and not expressing an opinion of his own.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 14:27 (twenty years ago) link

I didn't say that.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 22 April 2004 14:34 (twenty years ago) link

I know, I was being facetious, have I come to the right place?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 22 April 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago) link

OK, sorry.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 22 April 2004 14:36 (twenty years ago) link

Wot Ron said:

Ron: "What in heaven's name was f***ing Ranieri thinking in bringing Veron on?"

Second, unidentified voice: "He'll get savaged by the press.."

Ron [in an increasingly animated voice]: "Oh and f***ing rightly so. And I'm sorry, but I f***ing think that f***ing Desailly is a cheating f***. That was wrong."

[Noise from crowd and interference momentarily obscures Ron's voice...]

"He's f***ing been gone for two and a half years! And instead of playing like an old man and saying 'alright I'll f***ing stay where I can't get exploited'...I've always thought that he has no awareness of danger. He is what is known in some schools as a f***ing lazy thick ni**er."

[Still Ron, but now shouting]

"That is a f***ing disgusting performance. Full marks to them though. They were f***ing different class."

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 23 April 2004 08:12 (twenty years ago) link

One of our picture desk staff has been under the impression until 5 mins ago that it was Rowan Atkinson who had had to resign.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:39 (twenty years ago) link

Well he should.

― de, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:41 (twenty years ago) link

Wait till they hear about the involvement of the Three Degrees.

I saw in the Daily Star that Ian Wright says Big Ron 'taunted' him. I didn't bother opening it to get the full story 'cos I knew I'd never get past the tits.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:42 (twenty years ago) link

Rowan !!

N, do you remember my article where I said we should treasure Jimmy Hill?

Garth Crooks to thread, surely.

― the beebfox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:47 (twenty years ago) link

Big Ron on Mp3

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 25 April 2004 13:16 (twenty years ago) link

Doesn't sound like a man talking to himself at all.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 25 April 2004 14:18 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, sounds like a guy talking to the producer or somesuch on his headset.

Hmm. Institutional, anyone?

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 25 April 2004 14:59 (twenty years ago) link

You've got to question Clive Tyldsley's commitment here....

― de, Sunday, 25 April 2004 15:11 (twenty years ago) link

He's what's known in some schools as a Drac-faced, Pecky McBeak Birdman.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 25 April 2004 15:13 (twenty years ago) link

(Incidentally these schools Ron is referring to; does he mean Eton, Harrow etc.)

― de, Sunday, 25 April 2004 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

i think what he said is totally unacceptable,but if were talking about unenlightened views in football,the fact that the likes of woodgate and bowyer are still employed is a million times worse...

― robin (robin), Monday, 26 April 2004 04:28 (twenty years ago) link

interesting piece in the Observer yesterday where they sent Michael Eboda, editor of New Nation, the leading newspaper for the black community to talk to him:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1202686,00.html

― koogs (koogs), Monday, 26 April 2004 07:48 (twenty years ago) link

hmmm when Eboda attempts to explain to RA the "nigger vs nigga"/"queer vs gay" deal, he doesn't seem (to me) to be very much less at sea than Ron himself: viz "I explain that some young black people have, in an attempt to lessen the effectiveness of the word, used the term nigger, or nigga, as they spell it, as a term of endearment. I also tell him that most African Caribbeans see such people as misguided imbeciles." The second sentence may be correct, but as a version of the (American) history of the word's usage and how this changed (and how it didn't), the first sentence is simply not true.

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 26 April 2004 14:50 (twenty years ago) link

But Bowyer and Woodgate are not employed to offer us their views. I don't find them acceptable people, obviously, but their offences (wasn't one of them found not guilty anyway, in fact?) are less directly related to what they are paid for.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:01 (twenty years ago) link

Excellent point in today's Graun (or was it yesterday's Observer?) that saying one word stopped Ron writing for a newspaper but Richard Desmond's tirade has no impact on his ownership of one.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 26 April 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Jimmy Hill wades in...

"What about jokes about my long chin? I mean, nigger is black - so we have jokes where we call them niggers because they're black. Why should that be any more of an offence than someone calling me chinny?"

Gosh.

― Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

umm, cause you never had ancestors put to work as slaves because they had long chins, yeah?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:54 (twenty years ago) link

jesus WADES IN really is the correct description

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:54 (twenty years ago) link

Hill seemingly oblivious to the baggage of racial slurs. It's not the term, it's the associations. Even if the protagonist is not an aggressive racist (which Atkinson clearly isn't).

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago) link

the logic of the argument is akin to 'Paki's just an abbreviation, like Brit' - but nobody says 'Brit' in a spiteful tone like that

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 13:58 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, but e's done well for a chinny, aint e?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:00 (twenty years ago) link

i dont think atkinson will be as pleased about this 'support' as hill might imagine he would be

― gareth (gareth), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:00 (twenty years ago) link

i wonder what that noble bastion of the beautiful game (read pompous reactionary buffoon) Jeff Powell makes of it all...

okay i've stopped wondering now.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:02 (twenty years ago) link

Let us not forget that this comes from a man who famously, in a live FA Cup tie between Leeds and Man Utd, pondered whether Leeds' poor defending at corners came from their use of two African footballers - reasoning that they probably weren't as clever as the other footballers. No, really.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:11 (twenty years ago) link

Also Alan Green of Five Live referring to Sun Ji Hi as "Number 27 - chicken chow mein".

Aaah, loveable racist banter.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link

Exactly why don't you people rise up and cover morons like this in creosote? I mean, it's the least to be done.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

I'm shocked at Alan Green. Not Jimmy Hill, mind.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:31 (twenty years ago) link

Scotland to thread: We hate Jimmy Hill, he's a pouf...

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:32 (twenty years ago) link

Why can't Andy Townsend say something like this? I'd love to see him hounded out of a job. Also, Robbie Earle's face would be a picture.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:37 (twenty years ago) link

Des Lynam: "Andy, Shaun Wright-Phillips is having a good season, should he be looking for a England place?"
Andy Townsend "No Des. He's black".

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:48 (twenty years ago) link

Unfortunately for you Townsend is as racist as he is Irish

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 14:49 (twenty years ago) link

i imagine he'll be sacked by sky pretty soon?

― toby (tsg20), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:09 (twenty years ago) link

i don't think sky would sack him just for *defending* ron's remarks. he would have to use the n-word himself (or something similar), rather than defend the use of it, to be fired. hill's remarks are supremely ignorant, but i don't see him losing his job for this.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:25 (twenty years ago) link

i'm inclined to think of Hill as naive rather than ignorant but i could be wrong.

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:50 (twenty years ago) link

What's the difference?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 13 May 2004 18:57 (twenty years ago) link

Wow. Is it too late to withdraw my 'we treasure Hill' remark?
Actually I remember an emphasis on his 'patriotism' in a channel 4 profile about him; I chastised myself at the time for seeing anything wrong in that. But there was definitely a touch of little Englander about it.
He's ignorant and witless not naive. He's an experienced guy. For some reason he thinks it still the 1950s. (or 60s or 70s...).

― de, Thursday, 13 May 2004 19:21 (twenty years ago) link

That strikes me as far worse than Big Ron's comments, to be honest. I hope Jimmy Hill finds himself out of work for this.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 13 May 2004 21:05 (twenty years ago) link

exactly martin - it seems to be an order of magnitude worse to me. at least ron didn't offer (much) defence and apologised.

― toby (tsg20), Friday, 14 May 2004 05:01 (nineteen years ago) link

hill is always v "pro-england", that twattish st george's bow-tie he used to wear on the BBC, and loads of innuendo abt black players...

...but yes, i'd say this was worse than ron, at least he KNEW he'd done something wrong, not that that excuses saying it, of course...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:19 (nineteen years ago) link

the thing is that both of them are not exhibiting an actual hatred of black people, they're just saying stupid things about/towards them

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

The irony of it all is that Jimmy Hill is black.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:33 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos4/Hill,Jimmy1.jpg

Tis true, tis true

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:38 (nineteen years ago) link

is that Ryan Giggs's dad?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 14 May 2004 08:39 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...

He was interviewed on The Frank Skinner show this evening. An mp3 of his infamous commentary was mentioned - Google delivered the goods.

Pretty bleak viewing at points I thought. Can he relaunch his career?

― bert (bert), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Let's hope not.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 12 November 2004 07:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Do you think anyone misses him? I don't.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 12 November 2004 10:08 (nineteen years ago) link

a little

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Friday, 12 November 2004 10:10 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

Oh dear

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 23 January 2005 11:02 (nineteen years ago) link

this is genius!!!!
But Mr Atkinson defended himself today. He said: "I cannot believe anyone has complained about anything I said. I went there to help them out and to raise money. I stayed for ages and did photographs.

!!!!hahaha

― ken c (ken c), Sunday, 23 January 2005 11:28 (nineteen years ago) link

It's the second blunder made by Mr Atkinson, who made off-air racist comments last April which were accidently broadcast on a Middle East sports channel following a match between Chelsea and Monaco.

they keep mentioning the 'broadcast on Middle East TV' thing every bloody time. this is almost racism itself in the way that it implies people in the Middle East would actually be PERSONALLY offended by what Ron said ffs.

― Stevem On X (blueski), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:17 (nineteen years ago) link

i had imagined that it was just trying to describe how the off-air comments ended up getting broadcasted. but there may well be the implication as you'd described i guess.

― ken c (ken c), Sunday, 23 January 2005 13:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Is Ron having his life scripted by Linehan and Matthews?

― Masked Gazza, Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:15 (nineteen years ago) link

The Chinese - a great bunch of lads.

― Ally C (Ally C), Sunday, 23 January 2005 15:15 (nineteen years ago) link

shame about the lassies though

― ken c (ken c), Sunday, 23 January 2005 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.stuii.co.uk/images/sitesupport/roger-mellie.gif

"Bloocks"

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...

If it wasn't fot those pesky kids, he'd have gotten away with it...

Also, 'Sunday Sport columnist'. Sheesh.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 4 April 2005 06:37 (nineteen years ago) link

My conscience is not in my heart.

I did not know about this. Well done, Dwight Yorke and Co.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 4 April 2005 10:01 (nineteen years ago) link

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