thread for Eng-NZ series

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1st morning, 1st test.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

* dashes home to put the telly on

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I can't do that.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:15 (twenty-two years ago)

If only I could watch the cricket and post to ILE at the same time.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm - 47/0 NZ. They've left out Bond, which is interesting. And Jones got the nod ahead of Anderson, which is odd since the ball ought to swing a bit.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Except it isn't noticeably as yet, and the lines they're bowling just aren't doing anything.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't really thinking of today - but it's gonna be a bit more overcast Fri/Sat. I suppose Hoggard moves the ball in the air too, but with Harmison, Jones and Flintoff you've got three bowlers of the 'bang it into the pitch' variety and that may be one too many.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 20 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Shane Bond is injured Dr C!

― jel, Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Am expecting NZ to win this

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:08 (twenty-two years ago)

didn't kent beat them earlier in the week?

so is michael vaughan jel!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

New Zealand will have a batting collapse, 156-8 by close, I reckon.

― jel, Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Why are they still picking Nasser Hussain? Boring git.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Because his dad, Saddam, has influence at the ECB.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I love how the former England captain is named after two of leading anti-Western Arab leaders of the 20th century

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark Butcher of Baghdad.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 20 May 2004 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

hooray for ESPN, boo for really boring pitch so far

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:45 (twenty-two years ago)

grauniad are doing dead composers today apparently...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh is Bond injured again? When did this happen - he played in at least one of the warm-up games.

NZ looking good - and they bat down to 9. Could be a long day for us.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 20 May 2004 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Think he got injured about a week ago.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 20 May 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

OMG WTF chris cairns blasted 82 off 47!!! but NZ have been bowled out now.

really wish I was at home.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Heh, working from home has its benefits.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

There is a player called Chris Martin, I notice, poor sod

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ricardo- urge to kill...its NOT fading

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

will apples be thrown at the fella?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:34 (twenty-two years ago)

We need to bat well. I don't think we bowled badly - Cairns has done this to us before. A pity we don't have a spinner.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 21 May 2004 11:10 (twenty-two years ago)

204-1!! Strauss almost out!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:07 (twenty-two years ago)

yay!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I hope Strauss is the real deal and Nasser can finally be retired

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I was thinking that this is pretty much it for Nasser, and this will give Duncan a headache for the second test if Vaughan can get back. Nasser is (or was) a great player and captain, but I don't know why are eng insist on playing him if he's not gonna play against the aussies.

295-4, Butcher played a silly shot but hoggard did well to stay on for so long.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 22 May 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

so eng bowled out, lead of 55, NZ so far 25-1. really good game, enjoyed the flintoff-jones partnership and a shame that they've cut bits of that by putting the damn racing on.

(also geoff boycott is back, anyone know what's the story behind this?)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 22 May 2004 13:58 (twenty-two years ago)

hi! i like cricket but this isn't on tv here :-( it would be if we got SKYTV :-( fuck you skytv

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

when eng were beating the west indies, it was on skytv. but I didn't have sky. so fuck you, sky.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

New Zealand are edging ahead now, but I think it'll be a draw. I think Nasser will survive, but Ashley Giles probably won't be playing at Headingly. It'd be good if England gave Anderson another chance.

― jel -- (jel), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Boycott had throat cancer last year and was apparently very close to death. I know this cos Ceefax Sport had an obituary for Boycs ready in the 'scratch' section, about to go live on telly at any moment, when I was working there.

― darren (darren), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Thankfully though he got his throat to the pitch of the ball, and didn't try and hit it too hard, etc, and the great man survived.

― darren (darren), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I think there will be a result, based on the amount of time left. Could go either way.

Boycott is fantastic as a summariser.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Channel 4's package as a whole is really quite something, though Nicholas can be far too smarmy for my particular liking, as can Reeve. Boycott reminds me of my granddad in a way, the whole "now lad, don't be doing that" thing. He is very good though.

I really like the virtual scoreboard they bring up too. It's so... classy.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 22 May 2004 18:52 (twenty-two years ago)

There will be a result. I knew Boycott had throat cancer but he was sacked after that court case and the surrounding media circus and I was just wondering why he was bought back.

Nasser's position is shaky, really. We need to see where we can use Strauss (middle order or opening with vaughan), and give him a run in the team, so unless nasser makes a matchwinning score I can't see him playing in the second test.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 22 May 2004 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I liked it when Boyc was talking about Matthew Hoggard coming over to his house for tea to talk about his bowling, but Boyc made him talk about Hoggy's batting instead.

Mark Nicholas is great.

It'd be tres and strauss opening I think, Vaughan would be good at number 4. Though, I fully expect Nasser to make a match winning score.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 08:40 (twenty-two years ago)

jel- I see what you're saying but I don't see Vaughan being shifted down. He's got his fantastic average and has scored most of his runs at the top of the order.

A fanstatic session. We bowled tight but until Simon Jones came in, we weren't menacing enough. He really worked for that wicket and we were in, and Giles got a couple. Surprisingly nice spell from him, too.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 23 May 2004 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

This is shaping up for a great Test Match finish, this... and yep, I really like Mark Nicholas as a presenter, too. He's self-satisfied in an actually very likeable way!

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 23 May 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

It's possibly been the most average test match I've seen in every sense. Which possibly makes it the best.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 23 May 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

A representative test match, eh? Ashley Giles taking three wickets in an innings *in England* rules that out surely!? :)

And I would actually place England and New Zealand above the average, in terms of Test sides at the moment. Possibly even contesting for third place after South Africa.

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 23 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Bob bloody Nobody could've bowled spin out there and got 3 wickets. The God of Mundane was at work.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 23 May 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"Ma' mum coulda taikun un 'at treek on t' dat wikit!" Has Boycott not said such like yet? ;)

Admittedly, I've not been able to *watch* it; having to make do with TMS, as I'm at uni. and without TV (and ought anyway to be getting down with some serious revision... ;)). But yep, they have been saying it's turning a fair bit... Vettori may be dangerous tomorrow. If Thorpe gets in and plays well, I'd bet England to win it. Otherwise, a draw should be possible...

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Nicholas is ok. And it was a good spell from giles, we know he isn't like warne or murali (who is?) but we need a spinner for balance in the side and until we can get somebody better he will do.

County cricket's ultimate failure. Also the 'my mum could have done better' arg is lame lynskey.

250+ is psychological barrier for ANY team to overcome so I'd say new zealand to win (if eng had only 240 to get then they would've been favourites). But yeah its tight, and a great match, I really enjoyed it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Bob Bloody Nobody - Test Career

Matches 20
Wickets 16
Runs Conceaded 1,289
Average: 80.56
Catches 2
Runs 450
Average: 11.84
Highest Score: 23* vs Australia 1936 at Headingly
Best Bowling: 3-87 vs India 1937 at The Oval

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

England will win, I think.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Vettori is less dangerous than Ashley Giles.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

That's another thing about Channel 4's coverage, the speed at which they can call up the statistics - Simon Hughes and the analysis team are very possibly the best thing about it. If one of the commentators brings up something about a particular player - for instance, they mentioned Vettori's lengthy injury lay-off following a back injury - then they can very quickly get up some relevant statistics for discussion.

Those statistics about Vettori were very interesting - before his back injury his test bowling average was about 23, but after it it was nearer 40 or thereabouts.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Simon Hughes is great, it's kinda mean that he is always made to sit outside in his van.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I like to think they keep him in a basement and occasionally Benaud pops down with some sandwiches and brandy he's half-inched off Reeve.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 23 May 2004 17:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's all the cricket fans at?

England creepin' towards what would be a great victory but are they scoring too slowly? Having slagged Hussain off upthread the contrary old git is playing one of his "I'll be damned if these buggers get me out" innings.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

at work dada.

nasser did fucking well in the field yesterday, 3-4 catches and that run out. he's not gonna go quietly, eng appear to be scoring far too slowly so its loking like a draw. I'll be interested to see the strauss run out when i get home.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Victory is definitely on but it might need Flintoff to do some biffing

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 24 May 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Flintoff biffing urgent and key, I think. At current run rate England are going to fall a little short.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh I wonder if this is on Sky

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Fuck, it is! They seem to be discussing the pitch in some detail

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

62 TO WIN??? Just fucking BAT you DORKS

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:34 (twenty-two years ago)

test match special has been beautiful all day, a shame Strauss didn't get his double ton.

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh it's a BALL issue, right. Still, my last comment stands. I'm a little disappointed in the NZ team, actually.

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Vettori seems to be bowling well, he's the second youngest player in the match yet he's played 53 tests!!

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:38 (twenty-two years ago)

where the hell was this thread?? Been oohing and aahing at the bbc scoreboard at work all day.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Vettori's been playing since he was 17 or so. He's popular w/the ladies

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

and the boys too so I hear.

"new zealand's chin has, rather collectively dropped to it's breast"

"we've seen a plethora of choppers today haven't we aggers?"

thankyou Henry Blofeld, you genius

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Good God Jacob Oram looks suicidal

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway bed, this one's done obv. 3 tests overall?

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:47 (twenty-two years ago)

am enjoying the guardian updates, surely they can do this now?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

it's looking like it, unless maybe they bowl daisy cutters for the rest of the match. I may not be able to leave work til this finishes nmow

246-3

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha me and Boss' boss had a meeting in the tv room - great stuff, the three fours off the last three balls were amazing.

Possibly the perfect test match, it had everything, and went down right to the wire.

― chris (chris), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:29 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, Good Old Nasser! I told ya he'd win it!

Man, I'm so depressed that I couldn't go :( :(

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

yup. being watching it since 3:45pm and nasser smacked it round the park. glorius couple of shots to get it to 100.

jel was right.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

at least I'm going to SA vs West Indies in Septemeber, and then there are the tests against the Windies at Lords and the Oval.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

It'll definetely be 7 batsmen at Headingly, with at least 4 of them playing for a place over the summer. I guess it's Butcher who is under most pressure now, but I'd never consider leaving him out.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

get in!

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

will they drop butcher fr strauss?

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Nah, that wouldn't happen, it'd be bang out-of-order.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they should.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

There's talk of Nasser falling on his sword and retiring thus saving the selectors from making some potentially difficult selection decisions

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

For once, the selectors are having to make difficult decisions but it feels good.

Its the right time for nasser to retire. Alternatively, he could be allowed to reach 100 tests and then strauss to come in.

Butcher averages 40, has a great record against the aussies and he's our no3, he won't be retiring at the end of the summer (which I think is what nasser will be doing).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought nasser had already announced his retirement?

if so they can't really drop him (he may step down?) fr headingley?

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Butcher is class. In spite of what I said earlier and to contradict myself entirely (which is something I never do of course, ha ha), I think Nasser should struggle on to his 100 tests. Next test's OK, ditch Giles.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Nasser has said he will do some thinking on the retirement question in the next 24-48 hours.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

o, they were speaking yesterday (on the radio? on the telly?) as if he'd already announced his retirement. OK.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Nasser has said he won't be going to Australia whatever, which does not equal retirement but is an admission that he won't be around f'rever.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Selection decisions should revolve entirely around what is the best chance of winning/not losing at Headingley. Nasser played v.well and should clearly play if available. The only decision to make is whether to play 7 batsmen or 6. If 6, then Butcher steps aside for a while, if 7, then Giles goes, assuming that we'll want all pace on a traditional seamer's wicket. Butcher's a good player, a great team man and would be unlucky to miss out if he does get dropped, but he has not been in great form this season. This is exactly what the England team wants - competition for places. We need a couple more middle order batsmen (Bell? Key? Not Collingwood!) and a couple of good quality spinners (Giles has done OK overseas, but clearly isn't a match winner under all conditions). I think we may have the batsmen, but we obv haven't got the spinners. I'd like to see a young spinner tried out (Swann, Brown, Tredwell???) at some point this summer, but it's a gamble.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I'd say strauss/vaughan opening with tresothick down at4 instead of Hussain for headingley. Butcher did v well in the windies and we can't just drop ppl if they have one bad game!

then thorpe/flintoff/jones (the jones vs read thing is such a non-issue, read just can't fucking bat fer chrissakes!) and yeah we've got to find a spinner so lets try anyone instead of Giles, who has been a passenger for too long (though he had a good game).

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan's more likely to drop down the order than Trescothick, I think it might be better in the long run for Vaughan to bat further down the order. Giles is still the best spinner in England but not bowling the negative rubbish he's bowling now, he's a useful bat tho. Not convinced of Jones' qualities as a wicket keeper but, these days, the fact that wicket keepers can bat seems almost more important than whether they can keep wicket - but then, wicket keepers can and do improve: check Rod Marsh and Alec Stewart for that matter.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 11:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Bowlers have figured Trescothick out and I'd prefer right-left combination from the openers.

Giles will not make a run against McGrath-warne and he's not there to bat. The guy doesn't do much with the ball so we have to try other people between now and the ashes.

Jones is pretty good keeper, excellent batsmen and has the temperament.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

**Butcher did v well in the windies and we can't just drop ppl if they have one bad game!**

But if everyone else had a *good* game and you need to bring the skipper back what else do you do? It wouldn't be for ever.

Vaughan should bat 3 or 4 - maybe the change will help him to get back to the standards of a couple of years ago.

G. Jones - too early to say. Looked ragged at times, but this may not matter vs runs.

Giles - I don't buy the argument that he's the best we have. He's not good enough, therefore we need to try others.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

But if a player (butcher, in this case) gets chopped for having one bad game it just puts far too much pressure on him to perform whenever he comes back. Like I said, if Nasser is not gonna play against the aussies then what's the point of having him around (and ultimately, we are building a team that will have a chance of beating them).

I think leaving Vaughan at the top of the order would be fine. He has class and he'll eventually get into it, just need to give it time.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan is an excellent opening bat but I'd be happier to see him bat further down the order because being captain AND opening the innings is difficult - Vaughan can certainly do it tho - also I don't think Trescothick has sufficient technique to bat in the middle order and I think he'd be a fish out of water

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

why not just leave Vaughan out? he's not in great form, surely he could direct play form the pavillion < /kidding>

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I think Hussein's comments today about how might retire are quite touching -

"I want to see it out and beat the New Zealanders but I don't want to see a young lad who got 200 [runs] in a game left out for me - and without pre-empting the selection process, I doubt very much that he will be. The last thing I want to is to hold anyone back. I would hate that to happen to me.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Nasser's always had an emotinal side, like when he gave up the captaincy.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

And the whole Zimbabwe thing, he was blubbing over that, bless 'im

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad ILE has cricket talk!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

**But if a player (butcher, in this case) gets chopped for having one bad game it just puts far too much pressure on him to perform whenever he comes back**

One of the reasons why Australia has been so strong.

But, look I wouldn't even think of chopping Butcher on the basis of one poor game, except *if* they play 5 batsmen + Flintoff, one has to go. And it shouldn't be Strauss or Hussain.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

The next test being Headingley makes the selectors lives a lot easier, Vaughan could easily provide whatever spin is needed, with Butcher bowling a few as well if the attack gets too samey. So, Vaughan in for Giles, and prob Anderson in for Hoggard, who seems to have lost half a yard or so. But what would they do if it was Old Trafford? Where is the next spinner coming from? The only englishman who can turn the ball at all off the square is Jason Brown and you'd want another batsman in if you were playing him, as he makes Tufnell look like Sehwag with the bat.

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I hopelessly old fashioned or does it not matter whether a spinner can bat as long as he can spin the ball? Yes, I know it would make the tail longer but swings 'n' roundabouts and all that.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I think we're too paranoid about our tail these days. The top order is a little more dependable than in the 90's, the middle order even more so.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree entirely, but if you have an out and out rabbit at eleven I would imagine the selectors would prefer to bat down to eight rather than seven. Remember the dark days of Mullally, Giddins and Tufnell at nine ten jack?

x-post, btw, handily

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Butcher should not be dropped; he's been probably England's most *reliable* player of the last 3 years, probably averaging mid-40s...

Yesterday's innings would be a great way for Nasser to end his career, yet so would a series victosy after the third test... and then two tests later his 100th test... ;)

― Tom May (Tom May), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

No way Hoggard must play at Headingley, home pitch and all that, I'd leave Jones out and bring in Anderson (if any bowling changes are to be made)

I think we'll have to except that it's going to be a while until we get a quality spinner, ie someone who can get wickets regardless of pitch conditions.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

What! Leave Jones out? He was ace in the 1st Test!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Leaving Jones out would be sheer mentalism. He was england's best bowler with the old ball by far, just without the figures to show for it.

x-post, again

― Matt (Matt), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(hehe) yeah, Jonesy was good, I'm just a fan of Hoggy and Anderson, coz I think they're good too.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Never one for half measures, old Nasser

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll miss him.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah just heard it: he did the right thing.

''One of the reasons why Australia has been so strong.''

Australians don't drop ppl after one bad game.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 27 May 2004 11:54 (twenty-two years ago)

**I'd leave Jones out and bring in Anderson**

Yes, I was thinking about that jel, on the basis that he'll move it around more at Headingly. But it would be tough on Jones - he was actually getting reverse swing at Lords.

So Nasser's gone. Butcher stays then.

**Australians don't drop ppl after one bad game**

Jeez Julio! If Nasser was, in fact, going to be around who would you drop to make room for Vaughan? Or would you have played 7 batsmen? Why? Would you still play 7 batsmen now? Who would be the other one?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like nasser but I would have dropped him anyway because he is not going to stick around long enough to play australia.

Six batsmen plus jones as a keeper is fine (move trescothick down the order). If we were to play seven then we could have a look at robert key (since playing giles, or any other spinner might not be sensible, and as matt says, we can use vaughan for this test).

andreson for hoggard is something we could try.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

This constant blathering on about current decisions in terms of how they affect the next Ashes series is one of my biggest issues with cricket discourse in this country. Planning for the future is obviously a good thing, but so is winning against teams who are actually on our level (ie New Zealand, Windies etc) who we are playing at the time. It would maybe be just about excusable if we had any chance of winning a series against them, but we don't; sacrificing the best chance of winning now for nothing is stupid.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I respect his decision, and his reasoning to a certain extent but (from Cricinfo)

but not to fight against youth, in the form of Andrew Strauss and others like [Robert] Key, [Ian] Bell, [Ian] Ward and [Scott] Newman. They warrant consideration for selection."

Ward? Key? Hell, why not Aftab Habib whilst we're at it?

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, Ricardo OTM. As I said upthread you pick the team that will win your next game. We stand the best chance of beating the Aussies if we beat NZ and beat WI again. And the best chance of doing that is to pick the strongest team each time.

Ward looked crap wehen he played a couple of years ago - he was constantly playing across the line with a closed bat and obv gor found out. Key- I think could be good in a David Boon mould. He didn't disgrace himself when he played, except for some dodgy fielding. His technique looks solid enough.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

''It would maybe be just about excusable if we had any chance of winning a series against them, but we don't''

I think england have a strong team, it can get stronger and selection policy should have an eye on the future as well as the next test. We should be looking to strenghten the team all the time. Bringing a new player into a team that's winning is a way to do this.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 27 May 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Keeping an eye on the future is a good thing, yes, but there is more to the future than the next Ashes series!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Thursday, 27 May 2004 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

NASSER HUSSAIN I salute you, but you shoulda stayed around.

I think it'll be interesting to see how fit England's bowlers can remain over the next couple of series. A few injuries and Andy Caddick and Dominic Cork will be back.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 27 May 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Andy Caddick back would be no bad thing.

― Matt (Matt), Thursday, 27 May 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

How is Andy Caddick's back these days?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:45 (twenty-two years ago)

He's taking wickets again. But do we NEED him now? How old is he? 34-ish?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't need him but as jel points out, if the injuries start piling up - fingers crossed they don't

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Its impressive how there weren't any injuries to the bowling attack throughout the windies tour.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Astonishing when you consider past injury lists

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Rain delays start. Jones is out injured, Martin Saggers is in for some reason ahead of Anderson. Vaughan at 4. He hasn't lost the toss yet but that's to come.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Anderson = injured too, heel-knack apparently

― chris (chris), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Its impressive how there weren't any injuries to the bowling attack throughout the windies tour.
-- Julio Desouza (juli...), May 28th, 2004.

Julio has put the voodoo on them

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 3 June 2004 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

bah.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 June 2004 10:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Caddick's 35. If he's on form, I might have played him at Headingley... in 2000, the match at Headingley v.s. West Indies; we went for the first two days and thus ended up seeing the entire Test! Caddick bowled superbly in the second innings; four wickets in an over at one stage I think...

― Tom May (Tom May), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Vaughan won the toss! What a turn up for the books.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

As i recall caddick is excellent taker of wickets in the 2nd innings, much more so than in the 1st. But so is harminson.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 June 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, Andy Caddick is one of my favourite players, but I think his injury has really put an end to his test career. It'd be great if England could get a couple more years of 2000-era Caddy.

36-1 or something innit? HAHA, I'm glad Sky is getting the rain affected match.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 3 June 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

3 quick wickets for eng 215-4.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-two years ago)

New ball's doing a bit....

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah hopefully eng can get a couple more tonight.

Apparently butcher held a great catch for the 4th wicket.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 4 June 2004 14:57 (twenty-two years ago)

NZ 263-5.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 4 June 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

eng 507-7. flintoff missed his hundred, jones is on 91 not out. we're getting a lead of over 100.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 June 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

100 for Jones!

Looks like a draw.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 6 June 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, you said that then... NZ 102-5 at the close, with a long day ahead and only four more batsmen to come after Oram and Styris; two of whom are injured - Papps and Vettori. The current pair and Cairns are really their only hope, and I don't think any of them are the sorts to hang around like an Athers or Richardson... England will, weather-permitting, clearly win this one. Should be an interesting day; either some long resistance and quite a few runs from the Kiwis which tees it up fascinatingly, or a comfortable England win.

A great day for England, wasn't it? And disastrous for the battered New Zealand team; as TMS were saying, they're going to have to ring up local league sides to draft in various replacements. Don't forget Astle, McMillan, Tuffey and Bond all have injuries of sorts, too.

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 6 June 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah there's injuries but eng are coming along, great to see that Jones has that killer instinct, his hundred prob what killed them off.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 6 June 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Geraint Jones seems to be quite a find; his batting is so significantly greater than Chris Read's that there's no doubt he's in for years now. And he's got time on his side to improve as a 'keeper. The new Stewart? Possibly... though does anyone know what his first class record is; does he manage a prolific amount of runs at county level?

― Tom May (Tom May), Sunday, 6 June 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

FIRST-CLASS
(2001 - 2004; last updated 05/06/2004)
M I NO Runs HS Ave 100 50 Ct St
Batting & Fielding 31 41 8 1439 108* 43.60 3 9 81 8

not three bad

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 7 June 2004 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I was watching the highlights, great catch of hoggard's 'impossible' delivery to richardson, also wonderful six to bring up his 50, big on celebrations for his 100. This man knows how to enjoy his cricket.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Crikey

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I think we may win this.

Kiwi colleague just told me how an Auckland player was in the crowd and got brought on as a sub as they've been so badly hit by injuries!!

― chris (chris), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:40 (twenty-two years ago)

It's their own daft fault for only bringing fourteen players for a three test series.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

45 to win? even england cant fook that up.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:49 (twenty-two years ago)

45 to win the series. Fair play to Oram though, sounds like he did some quality lower order twatting.

― Jonnie, Monday, 7 June 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

41 to win...

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 7 June 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

we've won by 9 wickets!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 7 June 2004 10:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Wow Australianesque charge to victoy with those attacking fields.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 7 June 2004 10:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Fly slips!

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 7 June 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

silly wasp off!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 7 June 2004 15:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Pretty fly for a slip fielder.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 7 June 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Has anyone been watching today? I followed a bit on the Guardian - sounds like it's very much a batsman's pitch. But I haven't seen a ball of it on the telly.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 10 June 2004 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

135-0 off 43 overs. Trent bridge is a pretty good wicket as I recall, and it takes some turn towards later on.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 10 June 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

horrible slow pitch good for batting, hours of toil for the bowlers, personally I'm much more into unpredictable pitches and gritty batting.

296-4 at the end, NZ will make a big score, but England will probably too. Might get interesting late Saturday.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 10 June 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Toufel is having a bit of a 'mare.

Going to be a very tense afternoon, NZ are back in control. Cairn's slow ball is brilliant, and Franklin has been great. I'm concerned.

Haha, good old Ashley Giles.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

who will win this?

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:48 (twenty-two years ago)

At the moment, I'm thinking NZ.

If Butcher and Vaughan can get a good partnership going then England can win it, but England's batsman have an end of term look about them.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 10:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Well I think it's going to be close and as the first 2 wickets fell I had little hope for England, but I dunno now they seem to have dug in a bit.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:11 (twenty-two years ago)

and just as I posted, oh crumbs

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

crumbs indeed!

Still 150 short, conceading a first innings lead is going to cost England.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe freddy can rescue england with a lucky slogging frenzy.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe, but one thing that this pitch has proven: if you get too over confident, you get out. Freddie definetely needs to bat out of the crease.

Also, what did Hawkeye say about Butcher's LB? It looked like it was going down leg side to me.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

also, I don't like that tea no londer co-ordinates with actual proper tea time!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

it looked good on the replays to me.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

ah well, that's okay then!

better get back to it, later dudes!

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Talk about a vital session.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

ha ha why did channel4 just show slow motion footage of a cute girl walking with a tray of drinks? It was like a cheesy beer commercial.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

mmmm cheesy beer

Only been watching since tea but very entertaining

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

YES! 3-0!

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Bloody hell.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

HOORAH!

Bring on the Aussies!!!!

Feel kinda sorry for NZ, terrible luck with the injuries and they never really played that badly. Still, great series victory and hopefully Ashely Giles will get man of the match and stick one to the haters ;)

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Ashley was robbed!

Anyway, well done Thorpey.

Man of series NZ, has got to be Mark Richardson, and it is!

Dunno who it'll be for England...

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

It's Steve Harmison, which is well deserved I think.

― jel -- (jel), Sunday, 13 June 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Fantastic result! Knew Butcher would come good in the end, shame abt Cairns really but he almost pulled it off on his own, especially after jones was out. Giles did well, NZ got tired very quickly.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 13 June 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

ahem, well done England.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Sunday, 13 June 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

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