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Who are you voting for? Who's going to win?

― Sym (shmuel), Sunday, 23 May 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Liberals win, its just if they win a majority. Provided Junoir doesn't shoot himelf in the foot they'll hold most of the east, since Reform are still lame ducks east of Winnipeg and the PCs probably lost support for siding with a party run out of Alberta.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the green party shall rule canada with an iron fist¡

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Over the Natural Law Party's dead yogic flying body.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

The Marxist-Leninist Party's victory is historically inevitable, fools!

― Sym (shmuel), Monday, 24 May 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The Green Party shall fist Canada with an iron ruler!

― Skottie, Monday, 24 May 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh good. Finally SOMETHING to look forward to.

― Kim (Kim), Monday, 24 May 2004 02:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Who's taking bets?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 May 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i am voting for scottie¡

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i realized today that i had no interest in the democratic process, it doesnt matter who wins, we'll all get screwed.

― anthony, Monday, 24 May 2004 02:49 (twenty-two years ago)

that's the spirit - change through apathy

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 03:01 (twenty-two years ago)

the thing is im not apathetic, and it pisses me off that people assume i am--i engage poltically, as a writer, as an activist, etc...but none of that involves supporting rich white men from the east (the candidate i love in this riding is a broadcaster and educator by the name of Malcom Azania, ie Minister Faust--and i think he would do better work teaching, writer, and being on the radio--and in fact as done better work)

― anthony, Monday, 24 May 2004 03:03 (twenty-two years ago)

do you see no difference then - between voting for azania over, say, jaffer¿
what you just wrote seems to contradict your 1st statement a little.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

(the candidate i love in this riding is a broadcaster and educator by the name of Malcom Azania, ie Minister Faust--and i think he would do better work teaching, writer, and being on the radio--and in fact as done better work)

Hey, guy!

I'm from that riding as well. Minister Faust's [acceptance/concession] speech should be broadcast clear across the galaxy.

― gazuga (gazuga), Monday, 24 May 2004 03:25 (twenty-two years ago)

see whoever you vote for the government gets in, they let jaffer in because he was proper, doubt they will let malcom in for those reasons.

wow another edmonton ilxor rockfuckingon

― anthony, Monday, 24 May 2004 03:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Are you suggesting an artistocracy?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 24 May 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

im suggesting we have never had a democracy, only various types of oligarchy. so we have to stop playing that game and find new ones.

― anthony, Monday, 24 May 2004 06:55 (twenty-two years ago)

As I recall the Greeks (or, more likely, some famous Greek) believed a democracy could only work with at most 100,000 people. I think I agree, unless maybe that number is too high.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 24 May 2004 07:40 (twenty-two years ago)

But this time you have a choice, rich white men from the east and rich rednecks from the west pulling strings on rich white men from the east.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 24 May 2004 14:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll vote Bloc Québécois, a sovereignist political party, because I came to think the separation of the province I live in from the rest of canada would make it easier for anarchists to manage their businesses with the largest autonomy possible.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Monday, 24 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Some predictions: NDP will take seats away from the Liberals in the maritimes, as will the Conservatives. The Bloc will take a good chunk of Quebec. Ontario is hard to say, but NDP will take a few extras in Toronto, but probably Liberal in much of the rest of the province, and maybe a few Conservative. Manitoba through Alberta will largely be Conservative I fear, with some NDP in Winnipeg and the north. BC is going to go Marijuana party.

I have no clue what the end result is gonna be.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

As I recall the Greeks (or, more likely, some famous Greek) believed a democracy could only work with at most 100,000 people.
The Greeks also believed that everything was made of various combinations of fire, water, air, and earth. They also believed that the planets and stars were perfect unmarked spheres.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:40 (twenty-two years ago)

As for the election, Sean is very much otm. We know who will be PM after the smoke clears, the only question is minority vs majority govt. If I were betting, I'd say the latter.
Some think that the prov. Libs budget will turn people against the feds in this election, but five weeks of the feds constantly mentioning the name of Mike Harris will put a stop to that. Then the NDP can sneak in and grab five or six Ontario seats.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 May 2004 16:47 (twenty-two years ago)

combining the progressive conservative & alliance seats will have a notable effect on this election. while one conservative party will certainly be more powerful - i feel alot of old pc members will feel more comfortable will the policies and leadership of the liberals over the conservatives (following the lead of brison and clark).

the deciding factor for me this election will be the weapons in space issue. personally i'd like to see a party that will dystance ourselves from the u.s. - especially in issues like this. it bothers me, in what i've seen so far, that people seems to be completely ignorant to the fact that a conservative party or possibly even a martin gov't in charge over the last term would have seen is involved in iraq - probably under u.s. command. that's countless dead canadians and possibly even canuk troops mixed up in these prison scandals. with a liberal minority gov't (which it looks like we're going to have) we'll see some degree of cooperation with the ndp - that will give them enough power (hopefully) to steer crucial matters of policy in the right direction.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not too concerned about the next govt distancing itself from the US. Harper was asked about his tax-cutting policies during his press conference yesterday, and he was very quick to emphatically state that he does not want to emulate the US tax system (whether you believe him or not is another story). The point is, even the Conservatives know that most Canadians want nothing to do with the US at this point, so expect Harper to do all he can to make himself distinct in that regard over the next few weeks.
As for the Libs, I highly doubt that even a Martin govt would have sent troops to Iraq. In the end they would have gone with whatever the polls thought, and the polls were very clear about Canada's distaste with an Iraq war.
For me, the deciding factor is, as it has been in every federal election I have voted in, "for which party do I have the least amount of contempt"?

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 May 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

The Greeks also believed that everything was made of various combinations of fire, water, air, and earth.

And they believed that people died. What's your point?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

My point is that one generally needs a better reason to find grevious fault with something because the Greeks believed it 2400 years ago.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I voted Liberal last election. And though I have a some respect for my
Liberal MP, the Liberals are corrupt, the Liberals have become fat and flatulent and fat-catted. I will vote NDP, I think.

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 24 May 2004 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, but my point is that the Greeks might have been onto something there. A democracy demands people to be "popularly elected" -- if you go over a certain number of people doing the electing, then it's very difficult to be popular without a great amount of name recognition, and that generally can only come through money. So yeah, only rich people can win an election in a democracy of a sufficiently large size. And "100,000 people" strikes me as an interesting starting point for figuring out that size.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 24 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'm going to be volunteering for the NDP here in Vancouver, specifically Libby Davies. I'm hoping for a breakthrough, but we'll have to see. I could see the NDP getting to 40 seats, but that'll take a lot.

Martin will likely win, majority or minority, and it's better than Harper, but jesus, Martin is such a fuck.

― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

I really don't know who to vote for. My riding is a close race between liberals and cons, and while I really like Layton, I think I'm going to have to vote or the gutless vacillating libs. But can Harper really do that much damage? Do Martin and Layton make child porn? Will there even be a government standing after this election? Answer me, ILE!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

what i think is this: whoever wins - it will be a minority.
that means another election in about 1 1/2 yrs.
i think whoever the pm is (harpo or martin) will have pissed us off enough to lose the following election to a majority.
basically i'm voting ndp and hoping for the best.

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't think the NDP stands a chance and you think your riding is going to go Conservative, by all means vote Liberal. My own personal opinion: Harper is a scary, scary person who's not telling us everything he's planning to do. Judging by his pedigree, if he does manage to get a majority government, it'll be curtains for us all.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

that's the plan but it looks like the libs will pull through in my riding.

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

but even then - if what i think is correct then i'd rather have a conservative minority for 1-2 years than a majority for 5.

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Which riding are you in, dyson?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

st. paul's

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"But can Harper really do that much damage?"

Yes, yes and yes! This guy has gotten through the whole campaign without revealing what he really has in store should he get elected. He will make Mike Harris and Ralph Klein look like choirboys. Don't for a second underestimate how bad this guy is.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't think the NDP stands a chance and you think your riding is going to go Conservative, by all means vote Liberal.

While this may be true of my riding, I just can't get motivated to vote for 'star candidate' Ken Dryden. I actually really like the current NDP platform. I think it's a major improvement on their past decade or so, modernized by co-opting the Greens' better ideas and recognizing that deficits might not be a good thing. I have no love for the Liberal platform beyond that they're not Conservatives. I'd rather vote for something than vote against something.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 04:14 (twenty-one years ago)

again, what ridings are people in? sundar? Sym?

Strategic voting worries me, because it can't be done on a national basis under an Single Member Plurality system. There are people here in Van East that say they want to vote NDP but might vote Lib to stop the Cons, which is stupid, because the Cons have no change of taking the riding. In '88, the Libs pushed people to vote strategically for them against Mulroney instead of going NDP; well, in Vancouver Centre a bunch of people went to Tex Enemark of the Libs at the last minute, allowing Kim Campbell to beat the NDP's Johanna den Hertog by 200 votes. make sure you pick the right horse for your strategic vote; it's often not going to be the Libs.

I can't expect a Harper gov't at this point. He's got maybe 100+ seats in him, but not 155. Should he take a plurality, say 125, he won't get the support in parliament that he needs, and we'll see a cobbling together of the others behind Martin(or, shock of shocks, Layton). There's to much visceral hatred for Martin, Layton, or Duceppe to prop up a Con gov't.

― derrick (derrick), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

vancouver quadra, with lib incumbent stephen owen

― Symplistic (shmuel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Winnipeg South Centre with Liberal incumbent Anita Neville. Not sure of how I'm going to vote, just that it won't be for the Conservative candidate even if he was a PC guy and not an Alliance guy. We have Green, Action Party and Marijuana Party candidates in this riding as well. I'm predicting a slim Liberal majority next week simply because Ontarians are going to chicken out and vote Liberal. Everyone has to keep in mind that polls are mostly irrelevant here as it always comes down to ridings. The NDP is going to have a better showing than last time but I still doubt they'll have more than 25 seats. I'm way more interested in our mayoral election tomorrow as our old mayor gave up his post to run for the Liberals in Charleswood-St. James (where there's a very good chance he'll lose) next week. We're probably going to go from having a dynamic young gay mayor to having a middle aged baseball team owner as mayor. Great.

― Bryan (Bryan), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

He will make Mike Harris and Ralph Klein look like choirboys.

You say that as if there is anything wrong with Mike Harris.

I thought I was in Eglinton-Lawrence, but with the new boundaries Im in St Pauls which made not voting conservative easier to do.
Maybe I'm giving people too much credit, but I can't see a party that called Maritimers "lazy" winning too many seats after Elsie retired and the PC's best candidate jumped to Liberals instead.
Im still wondering if I'd be happy with a weak Conservative/Bloc government that lasts just long enough that Martin is forced out and someone like Rock or even Copps takes over. But thanks to Turner being a bastard about not resigning I get the feeling Jr won't either.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in Toronto-Danforth myself, so it's made my general tendencies to want to vote NDP very easy, since my candidate is Jack the man Layton himself. Oddly, this riding also has the leader of the Green party, but I can't bring myself to vote for an environmental party with a very conservative fiscal policy (especially when the environmental organizations give the nod to the NDP anyhow).

I understand the distaste for strategic voting, but sometimes the stakes are too high...witness the forthcoming US election, where not voting against Bush may be too much for people who don't necessarily sympathize with the Democrats may be just too much to stomach. I'd generally prefer to vote for the candidate I like best, but if I thought the Conservatives would have any chance of squeaking by with a victory the riding I'm in and the Liberals were close, I'd sure as hell be voting Liberal. Thankfully, most of the ridings in the GTA seem to be horseraces between the Liberals and NDP (ha ha ha)

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I was actually shocked to hear that Glen Murray was running for the Liberals! WTF? I thought he was an NDP guy?! If he'd run for the NDP maybe he'd win the riding a bit more easily...Winnipeg definitely has a wide NDP streak even when the Conservative candidates are strong.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Noodles, if you love Mike Harris so much then why don't you marry him and have millions of his babies? Hmmm? =) Copps as PM is a somewhat terrifying concept. I think it would remind me of my office too much.

arghhhh... I was unsure right up until the last moment but I voted Liberal (St Pauls) in the advance poll last night, and I did it for the same reasons mentioned by Sean up there, (I think it was actually the fucking LICK'S hamburgers poll on a sign out in the Beaches that put the fear into me) but now I just feel dirty. I'm sorry Jack!

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

To make Toronto-Danforth even more interesting, the incumbent Liberal is not too bad.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

kim - you're telling me a lick's sign made you vote liberal¿

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:47 (twenty-one years ago)

It had the Conservatives at 35%, thats scary future land.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

it was a lick's sign.

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

it said 40%. haha and not JUST that... but you know, it's as good as any poll I think. At least I knew that their sample was a good cross section of the moneyed folks in low riding pants that are mostly concerned with the welfare of their dogs. That's a REAL demographic here in TO.

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

But if your doggie biscuits could only smell so good you'd understand.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok that sounds.... wrong.

― Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It's ILX all right.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not going to justify it with a hyperlink www.threedog.com/index.html

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

To make Toronto-Danforth even more interesting, the incumbent Liberal is not too bad.

Yeah, you know, I keep thinking that Dennis Mills actually seems like a pretty nice guy, and he seems to be pretty well respected. But he did make a promise to resign if he wasn't able to do something about that abandoned building and then when he didn't, he didn't. I also found the "save the waterfront" timing a little bit too convenient. So Jack gets it!

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

But he did make a promise to resign if he wasn't able to do something about that abandoned building and then when he didn't, he didn't.

He did get something done, just not in the 30 days he promised.
Has any other politician resigned in recent times for a promise like that other then Shelia Copps? We've seen 2 or 3 leave their parties but Copps by-election over GST is the only one I can recall.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't that just a waste of time and money though?

like the old Reform MP-callback proposals.

Mostly, I can't believe how remarkably indifferent most people are about this election, esp. considering how close it is.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

really? this is the first time in my life anyone i know has had conversations (and arguments, even) about federal canadian politics (which are obv the most boring politics ever).

― Symplistic (shmuel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, paul martin and healthcare are vital parts of federal polittics. very boring.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe I'm circulating in the wrong social circles these days. But even at work, at a minor metropolitan daily, things aren't that abuzz.
I think a big part of it is the way the campaign's being run, esp. Harper's anti-policy stance. Though to be fair, the Conservative Party has yet to hold their first policy convention, so it's not entirely strategy that they don't have a real platform.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

We're probably going to go from having a dynamic young gay mayor to having a middle aged baseball team owner as mayor. Great.

Those who are worried about losing Canada's only gay mayor may be pleased to note that Toronto's David Miller appears to be stepping into the breach (or is that "breech"?):

http://www.fabmagazine.com/special_images/coversmall.jpg

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

He don't forget about the dude with the jewelry:
http://www.cityregina.com/images/prince_rcmp.jpg

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'll be wearing clothes"
David Miller is just a fountian of quotes ain't he?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in York Centre. I'd assumed it was a Conservative riding because it's been so overwhelmingly PC in provincial elections but actually the Liberals have won the last 4 elections here, with the NDP coming in at (a distant) #2 last time. So I have no qualms at all now about my vote. Besides, our NDP candidate actually has, like, something to do with the community unlike Ken Bloody Dryden.

Sean, yeah, like I said, the NDP seem to have finally co-opted the most sensible Green ideas (heavy investment in alternate energy R&D, resource taxation, polluter-pay, establishing a green technology degree).

Despite my numerous reservations about Mike Harris, I do have to concede that it wasn't his PC govt that brought in OHIP premiums. I actually voted Liberal that election too, grr.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

But I admit I actually kind of like the idea of a Sheila Copps-led govt.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, it won't happen (and might not make me many friends to say this), but what do you think of the idea of an NDP/Bloc coalition?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the idea of any liberal other then Paul Martin led government. Though I'd be more comfortable with a Paul Martin lead PC government too. Or even a (still living) Paul Martin Sr government.

I don't think you could scrap together a cabinet out of the NDP/Bloc candidates. Not enough peanut butter in both of those jars to cover the bread.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd prefer a zombie martin sr. gov't¡

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

braaaaaaaaaaaaaaains!

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

heeeeeeeeealth caaaaaaaaaaaare¡

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

gunnnnnnnnnnn reeeeeeegisssstryyyyyyyy

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Though I'd be more comfortable with a Paul Martin lead PC government too.

Why?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

because that's the party he belongs in.

― dyson (dyson), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

What's up with all the 'tactical voting', liberals=kleptocrats, plus the Cons will allow more TV channels, depending on where you are vote for either them or Bloc to really fuck shit up

― dave q, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I love an NDP/Bloc coalition. three cheers for democratic socialism and human rights!

The strategic voting is just a bother for me because people often aren't clever enough about it. It's way easier in the US presidential election, because everyone gets the Kerry vs. Bush ballot. In Canada we've got a westminster parliamentary system, where casting your ballot as a Martin/Harper/Layton choice can be fully counter-productive.

When people are smart, a la EVERYONE voting for Joe Clark in Calgary in 2000, strategic campaigns can be a beauitful thing. On a national scale, though, I'm not so sure.

― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Joe who?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry couldn't help myself.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 02:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do you go from calling an election to having it in such a short time? When do you spend your hundreds of millions of dollars on TV ads and embossed pencils? How can all the babies get kissed? In the U.S., we seem to be moving toward having a sort of permanent campaign, punctuated by periodic elections.

― spittle (spittle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It's kind of a one-party state up here, so they can just bring all the old stuff out of storage from last time, and the ads are rabbit-ears shadow-puppet stuff, although there's a good one where they aim a pistol at the camera and 'shoot' you through the TV set

― dave q, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

dave, are you still in Canada? If so, which area of the country are you in?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Southern BC, nowhere near fucking anything except more god damn pickup trucks than a Joe Don Baker film

― dave q, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 03:44 (twenty-one years ago)

because that's the party he belongs in.

Assuming that your politics are more liberal-leaning (which might not be a safe assumption), I still have trouble seeing why you'd prefer a conservative leading a conservative cabinet to a conservative kept in balance by a more liberal cabinet.

the Cons will allow more TV channels

What do you mean by this? That they'll weaken the CRTC and allow US conglomerates to dominate airwaves even more?

I keep thinking about the NDP/Bloc coalition, ideally even a union of the two parties. More sovereignty for Quebec is compatible with the general principle of decentralizing the state and is kind of a socialist cause anyway.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Your last point makes little sense, Sundar! Unless I'm missing your point the NDP will always be in favour of a strong national government. A Bloc/NDP coalition makes no sense. It's suicide for any national party to align with the Bloc, plus if you recall the Bloc was originally formed by disgruntled Quebec PC MPs, hardly a good fit ideologically with the NDP regardless of any moves to the centre they've made. Or maybe all of this Bloc/NDP coalition talk is just mentalism. I'm sleepy.

― Bryan (Bryan), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:21 (twenty-one years ago)

re NDP/Bloc coaltion: Layton's already stated that he would recognize a unilateral Quebec declaration of sovereignty ... hmmm. Such things tend to weaken the coalition.

(fwiw, I'm in Trinity-Spadina, home of Olivia Chow vs. Tony Ianno).

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Dave Q lives here:

http://www.theminorthirds.com/pix-bc-hope.jpg

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I like this thread title. I was hoping it meant you name your elections, like hurricanes. Other possible election names: Gadzooks! Forthwith! Mos Def!

― spittle (spittle), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:41 (twenty-one years ago)

thanks, i guess

other suggestions: yippee! good riddance! jimjam juice!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

everyone always misunderstand my thread titles :-(

― Symplistic (shmuel), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Hope! The domain of Chuck Strahl until he deigns to relinquish it. My horrid grandpa golfs with him from time to time.

We don't have fixed election dates; they happen anytime between 3-5 years within a mandate, at the Prime Minister's whim. No campaigning is allowed before Parliament is officially dissolved, which is no more than some 36 days before the election date. BC adopted fixed electon dates in 2001, every 4 years, so we know we're back in the saddle for May 15, 2005. It'll be interesting to see what the next year looks like, in terms of camapigning and posturing. I kinda like it, because we can plan like the dickens to destroy Campbell now without worrying about a snap election or a long delay for super-spending announcements.

― derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 06:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Of course, there's a very good chance we'll be doing this all again in 18 months.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Hurrah!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

watching the poles for this election - i'm starting to think proportional representation may deserve a good look.

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

What, we're letting Polish people vote now? First convicts, now Europeans.
See what's happened since Don Cherry got fired from the CBC!

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Assuming that your politics are more liberal-leaning (which might not be a safe assumption),

The point of this assumption escapes me.

I still have trouble seeing why you'd prefer a conservative leading a conservative cabinet to a conservative kept in balance by a more liberal cabinet.

I like my left hand on the end of my left arm and my right hand on the end of my right arm. I fear that Jr is going to attract the more right leanings aspects of the Liberal party to positions of power. This is bad news even if he isn't in government.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

We've been handling senate reform for how many years? Now you wanna change the lower house too? Good lord the universe might implode if we do both at once. That's madness, or just too much faith at the speed of civil servants to carry out change.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

huck - you are like clockwork¡ i thought about posting a follow-up "pole" joke after my post but i remembered that i'm the straight man here.

and i said look at proportional representation. i am taking into account the lightening speed, *ahem*, of our gov't. the "look at" phase should take at least 10 years - so we should get started a' look'n, methinks¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

& huck you may now proceed with the straight man pole/phallus jokes¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't tell me what to do.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Sounds about right. We've been dealing with Senate reform since 88 or so and its still a minor minor election issue.
Maybe we should just focus on getting Quebec to sign the consitution first.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

x post, to huck: don't tell me what to not do.

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

To quote Nardwuar: I don't need my friends to tell me who my friends are!

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

that doesn't really fit, but whatever.
Paul Martin is here today.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

on ile¿¡

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Warren Kinsella was in a punk band.
Without Nardwuar I would have never have known this.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

in Regina.

Warren Kinsella will probably show up on this thread now. He's an avid self-googler.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe we should just focus on getting Quebec to sign the consitution first.

roffle don't try it.

― SÃ©bastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Pipe dream I know, just like seperation.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Thor should run for PM.

― Kim (Kim), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Huh?

Brian, you're right about the strong natl govt part, probably, but the NDP does seem to be favouring some level of decentralization this time and AFAIK have always been a little more amenable to a little more self-determination for Quebec. And, although the Bloc was founded by ex-PCs, they've always been very left-leaning on social issues.

Noodles, are you saying you'd prefer either a firmly conservative or a firmly liberal govt to something that was wishy-washy and in the middle?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I pefer my liberals to be liberal and my conservatives to be a stick used to beat the liberals with.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 24 June 2004 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

sundar - all i think he meant by that was that he'd prefer to have a leader - or mp - or whatever in the party he/she belongs to. it's just preferable to have a liberal mined leader running the liberals & the same for a conservative or communist etc.

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"Hi I... No, I'd like to talk to... Yes, I'm calling about the tobacco. What? No, the tobacco. I... excuse me? I don't think... Is Sir Walter Raleigh there? What? You know, he, uh, he's about so high... No, I don't think he's Bloc Quebecois. No, I... Well, then who is this? Uh-hunh. Yes. Well I don't know. No, I dont' know, I'm sorry. Well how can I...? Oh. Well. NDP, I guess? OK. Well, yes, you have a nice election too."

― B0b Newhart (Chris Piuma), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

what's this whole "riding" thing? I thought only Calgary was the place with the Stampede?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Every sports team in Canada is mandated to be called either the "Rough Riders" or the "Roughriders". So politically Canada is divided up into small units based on their local sports teams -- the "rough ridings" (usually just "ridings"). Some large cities will have several teams, from hockey to curling to junior hockey, and so they have several ridings, whereas Nunavut just has one riding, for the Iqaluit Roughriders, who may not be very good at curling but they've got spirit.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Har har!

Sundar (well, and the rest of you fules maybe): please don't tell me you believe or put any stock in anything any of the party platforms state!

We had our mayoral election yesterday and Sam Katz (pronounced Cates) won. He's a bit right of center but he's very enthusiastic about promoting the city which is very important. He also got up onto a big concrete median at confusion corner on Monday and waved at everyone driving home from work, which I thought was kinda demented since he very easily could've fallen off and been crushed by oncoming traffic.

Sean: Glen Murray is gay but kind of a fiscal conservative (that doesn't sound right but wtf). Maybe 15 years ago he would've ran for the NDP but now that he's a professional politician he's going where the money is. Funny thing is that he might lose.

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

So was I right about ridings?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Or, that is to say, is in an electorate system where each riding sends a reprensentative to the lower house and then they "vote" on who the PM will be?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The PM is the leader of the party with the most seats in parliament. The leader is decided by members of the party at periodic conventions sort of like how American parties decide who the presidential nominees will be. Like in England you only get to directly vote for the Prime Minister if you live in his/her riding. It is a very rare thing that a party leader of one of the four main parties would not win their seat. If they did lose another MP would be expected to resign and a byelection would be held to make sure the leader got in.

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Doesn't that whole "MP" and "PM" terminology seem confusing? What about the Canadian dyslexics, I ask you.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

They're left out in the cold along with those who want an elected Senate and new episodes of "Seeing Things".

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 24 June 2004 06:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget the term MPP which covers some of the provincal governments. Though I think most of the provinces now have MLAs instead.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 24 June 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget how all policy is decided with Canadian-rules football matches between the teams, with the party leaders as quarterbacks.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 24 June 2004 12:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Except when a rogue is scored, in which case the NDP are asked for their opinion before being ignored. The final decision as always lies with The Honourable Senator Mahovlich.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 24 June 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

And since we are on oddities of CFL, why are JPs reffered to as 'Your Worship' and judges are 'Your Honour'?

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 24 June 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

And the PM isn't really the Head of State, that's the Governor-General, who represents the Queen, who performs the coin toss.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

With half time show by the Lt-Generals.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

They always lose to the Hull Globetrotters though.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Thursday, 24 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

heh, Senator Mahovilich and soon MP Dryden.

Don Getty played pro football, too, unlike Bob Stanfield.

― derrick (derrick), Friday, 25 June 2004 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

liberals=kleptocrats

You know, the more I read about how far the sponsorship scandal extended, the more this seems like a relevant point. A third conservative term might prove just too cushy. So, the question is would a hypothetically honest and responsible right-wing govt be better or worse than a corrupt Liberal govt?

BTW do you think what the Liberals did in this scandal was better than what, say, Nixon did at Watergate? Was that just a bigger issue because of the dramatic way he was caught?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 25 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm going a-votin'! Wish me luck!

p.s. I'm still not really sure who to vote for...

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm leaning towards Green, esp. since polls have them not winning any seats, but getting enough popular votes to get big time money for the next election so that they can run a really good campaign.
Think long-term.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

But the Greens have turned libertarian!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude,

http://www.friendsofrpl.ca/assets/logo.gif

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I <3 Bad Graphic Design!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 28 June 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

If tM3 ever comes back through, you should totally adopt & adapt that for your show posters!

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, if you want libraries, vote for the librerals

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:47 (twenty-one years ago)

sorry.

anyways, i voted for the liberals, and it's seriously depressing me. If the NDP come in a close sceond in my riding, I'm gonna be sick. But I don't think that will happen.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

librerals: retards with left-wing political views (as opposed to recons: fundamentalist right-wing retards).

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I just voted for the Greens. If the conservatives win in my riding, I will feel slightly guilty, but the goddamn grits did it to themselves. And I'm not voting tonight (in order to find out how close it's going to be, and vote accordingly, because it'd gonna be crazy busy -- convenience > democracy).

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

hippie

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

That was unclear. What I mean is that I voted for the future. The future is mine. I voted idealisticaly, perhaps not pragmatically. It was a tough call. I really do hope the CONS don't win in my riding. But it will probably will be very close...Maybe I should vote again.

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:57 (twenty-one years ago)

do it! tell them you made a mistake! then ask for your old ballot back!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 20:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, historically Greens have been conservative, socially and enviromentally. The hippied faction, which is currently quite strong, is a problem. But that will probably change when they get money, and become corrupt. Politics are depressing, really. I was happy to see there was Marxist-Leninist Party.

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

What happened to fascism? Is seems so out of vogue these days. People really give up on ideas to quickly. All it needs is a little tweaking.

― Gilles Meloche (Gilles Meloche), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i was going to start the New Fascist Party once! But then I realized it wouldn't actually be that funny!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

what about a progressive fascist party¿

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Does anyone else feel that the media non-blackout is unfair? This is one case where an itsy bitsy morsel of censorship can be a good thing. It just seems unfair that some people get to vote with prior knowledge of how other parts of the country have been voting.
I don't think it'll make much of a difference in this election, but it's more the principle anyway.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

fascist

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, barry has a point - it does give b.c and alberta an unfair advantage. (and the yukon too - ha¡)

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:21 (twenty-one years ago)

nevermind what i just said - there's not really a big window of opportunity for them. the poles close here at 9:30 and at 7:00 on the west coast. so that only leaves them with some of the maritime results & not alot of time.

― dyson (dyson), Monday, 28 June 2004 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, so it's not like it's as cool as the Oscars, but still:

Rolling 2004 Canadian Election Results Thread

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:20 (twenty-one years ago)

New Fascist Party: Because you're sick of waiting for trains

― Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 28 June 2004 22:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Shit, it's only a half hour difference! I didn't realize that. Who cares, then.
Although there's *still* the principle of the thing ... never mind, I will now progress to thread #2.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Monday, 28 June 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

nine months pass...

They haven't called a new election yet, but with the sponsorship scandal raging, all three opposition parties threatening non-confidence motions and the Liberals' tenuous minority government barely hanging on; it's really only a matter of time. What say you fellow Canadians?

Details here

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I read the article, but I wasn't quite sure what the scandal was about -- someone was being paid for something, but it kinda sounded like the sort of thing that would be considered business as usual in the U.S.

This is perhaps more due to my sleepiness right now rather than any lack of reading comprehension...

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 04:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all pretty straightforward - it's the standard kickbacks to secure government contracts routine. The entire affair was actually pretty unsophisticated. In many cases cash was exchanged from person to person by hand in unmarked envelopes. No fancy money laundering or re-routing through dummy corporations or off-shore accounts. The Liberals got arrogant and now it's going to cost them, and maybe the entire country, dearly.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm with Chris -- I think people are making a bigger deal of the kickbacks than is necessary. We know that the govt. partioned $100M to their friends, so the "revelation" that some people took a relatively small kickback in conjunction with these activities is just a small bit of icing on the already formidable cake.

Nobody wants another election now and the Tories would be the biggest benefactors of a new election anyway, so it's in the interest of the other parties to keep things as they are.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, as the days and weeks go by I continue to be astonished with how much I don't give a flying fuck about the sponsorship scandal.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

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