Offical NBA Offseason 2004 Thread

Magic get the #1, trade it and Grant Hill for 'Toine. Mavs take Okafor.
Nets trade Kenyon Martin for 'Tawn.

Nash
Finley
Dirk playing SF
Martin
Okafor

Not a bad lineup.

This is said about 10 or 15 teams every year.

That's wrong. They've been written off completely since they lost Mourning, especially this year. There was no talk of finals by anyone this year until Indiana started showering them with respect. Even at the start of that series, every columnist and sportscaster save Kenny Smith said "sweep". I'm just saying that if Dwayne Wade shows up better next year than this year, they may not even need a center. And I'm not even from Miami, I'm just calling it how it is, because the East has maybe two other teams, both of which are still playing right now. If Dwayne Wade continues to develop, he can carry that team to the finals....

But yeah, true centers really aren't around much these days....

Dirk+Walker+junk for Shaq - yea or nay?

Dallas fans don't seem to excited, I suspect because of this reason and Dirk-love. The team was so bad for so long, fans are torn between "yay, win a championship by putting it all on the line" vs. "play it safe, just don't go back to 9-72 even if you never win a championship"

Exactly.

Also, using the Grant Hill thing as a comparison point is specious, as GH's ankle troubles were a total fluke, IIRC.

You know, the Magic didn't want to give Hill a physical before he signed that ginormous contract because they thought it would "offend him" and scare him off. The injury happened when he was in the playoffs the last year with the Pistons and didn't want to be thought of as soft. Tragedy upon tragedy.

I think Howard would start over Daniels just because of the positions they play. Daniels is great coming off the bench.

So, the Bobcats are now Larry Baxter, J.R. Bremer, Primoz Brezec, Maurice Carter, Predrag Drobnjak, Desmond Ferguson, Marcus Fizer, Richie Frahm, Brandon Hunter, Jason Kapono, Zaza Pachulia, Aleksandar Pavlovic, Jamal Sampson, Tamar Slay, Theron Smith, Jeff Trepagnier, Gerald Wallace, Jahidi White and Loren Woods.

I'm a big basketball fan, and have heard of maybe 6 or 7 of these.

NBATV is showing the 1986 NBA Draft. Kind of sad knowing that Len Bias is about to get picked.

again, i am hilarious.

I think it's a forgone conclusion that he resigns with the Lakers though. Most money, and stupid Buss and Kupchak are giving him the keys to the proverbial minivan. Still not convinced that Shaq is really a goner though.

and i definitely agree with milo upthread that shaq would work his ass off in a new city. on the right team he really could go on another championship run or two, which ought to be enough incentive to drop a few pounds and bang. the legendary big men (kareem et al) were able to be effective long past the age where shaq is being called old (32?!) and i think he's serious about getting a new city, new teammates and going to work.

Heard some talk on the radio this morning that Derek Fisher might be headed to the Rockets now with Payton staying in L.A.

So anyone think that the McGrady trade could fall apart if Francis keeps karping? It doesn't seem to me like Francis has an awful lot of leverage here, but stranger things have been known to happen in the NBA. Maybe Orlando trades for Francis et al, keeps Mobley, drafts Okafor and tries to spin Francis somewhere else on draft day? Orlando seems dead set on somehow landing Shawn Marion, so who knows? But as it is I think Francis probably ends up in a Magic uniform next season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1827125

The Jamison trade would make more sense if the Shaq deal was a definite impossibility. As long as O'Neal's taking up most of your cap space, you might as well keep a good player with a big contract on the books, since flexibility isn't an issue at all.

(What on Earth would convince Don Nelson to draft a really tall, skinny white dude? Hasn't Shawn Bradley taught him anything?)

Someone on the ESPN Mavericks board just floated a Walker/Stackhouse/5 for JERMAINE O'NEAL trade. WTF? Yeah, man, a couple of overrated, overpaid guys and a bad draft pick for Larry Bird's franchise player.

Steve Nash in a Lakers uni?? Weird.

Harris
Finley
Howard/Daniels (assuming one or both don't go to LA)
Dirk
Shaq

If you're going for Shaq and a championship, having a rookie PG is a mighty big risk. Part of me suspects Harris is trade-bait for the Lakers, if they're going to lose Fisher.

Poor Pavel blahblahblah - two days of "he's going number 5!" talk now he's looking at the mid-teens.

That footage of the high school player that the Sonics took. It seriously looked like he was playing against 7th graders.

They had to pay money (in addition to Jamison) to get Harris and two overpaid chumps?

Wow, Telfair is a REACH at 13.

Probably because of Jamison's crappy contract.

I think it's also been proven that these HS or early draftees have a MUCH bigger percentage of becoming impact players than experienced college players. Called "upside."

Stackhouse makes 7-8 mil over the next 3 years, Laettner 6.2 but is a free agent next summer.

Jamison is 12-16 mil till 2008.

where is this proven?
i want stats and names right now,
or else i say NAY

but come on dudes: shaq,
jordan, iverson, duncan,
that's who fills the seats

(haiku, i was joking.)

meanwhile they just said
that beltran's been traded to
the houston astros

I think the Russian might actually be good. Sloan is a good coach for him.

I'm beginning to suspect that the only players left on the Mavericks from last year will be Najera, Finley (since no one will take his contract) and Howard.

The NBA is really losing out not developing a true AAA system. It would give them a place to rehab players, have players ready to fill in on rosters knowing a teams system if called up for a couple of games and the level of play would probably be as good or perhaps better than NCAA ball. I think they are morans for not giving it a go. They could also use those mid market connections to play preseason games and help build up support for the parent clubs.

(Not like he was really there to begin with.)

Also what's this about Mullin?!? I must know every Mully content.

I was just thinking, though... Why not change the rule that you can't draft a player and let him stay in college? My understanding is that they made the rule after the Celtics drafted Bird and let him stay at Indiana State another year. The thing is, European players can stay in Europe. So, like a Sebastian Telfair... He's going to be guaranteed X number of dollars when he wants to come to the NBA. Let him go to college a year instead of ride the pine.

I guess the downside would be that the draft would be ALL freshmen and HS players... Just a thought though.

If the player was still eligible to play in college before he was drafted, the team retains the player's draft rights until the draft the player would have entered had he not left college early.  For example, if a team drafts a college sophomore in 2001, they retain his draft rights until the date of the 2003 draft.  Note that the current NCAA rules state that players lose their NCAA eligibility if they are drafted, so the player could not return or go on to play college ball.

That isn't how it happens in baseball, there are still quite a few big players taken out of the NCAA and it has become more the case in the last twenty years or so. The thing that the colleges will have for some players is that they can get an education in case the pros don't work out and at big schools will get excellent focused coaching on how to play the game.

Do you think someone like Tayshun Prince would have had a chance to go straight to the pros? Probably not at all, as he was so slight, but four years at playing at a top level school like UK and playing in such a spotlight probably provided a whole lot of experience that he wouldn't have gotten playing minor league hoops. Mateen Cleaves will never be a big player in the pros, but that experience he had at MSU will pay a dividend over a lifetime that no minor league playing experience will ever provide.

I don't think a well put together minor league bball system will hurt college ball at all. People will still care about NC/Duke or college hoop at that level no matter who is in the jerseys.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/040625

so true! what the hell were those suits?

Hilarious.

Man. If Shaq stays in the West this is going to be a crazy year.

Houston in a year or two - once they assemble a few more supporting pieces to the team and Yao and McGrady get on the same page - should be a favorite in the West.

Gonna be an interesting season.

This was pretty funny:

O'Neal, wary of being questioned about his desire to be traded from the Los Angeles Lakers, declined to comment during a break in Monday's meeting.

People who were in the meeting said O'Neal raised his hand twice during a team-by-team roll call, jokingly claiming to represent the Dallas Mavericks and Sacramento Kings. He did not raise his hand when the Lakers were called.

I'm coming to grips with the idea of a Nash-less Mavs. If he's really looking for a long-term big/max money deal, given his age and fragility, I dunno if I'd pay it. $10-12mln/yr+ for a guy who Nellie only wants to play 30-32 minutes a game and can run cold is a lot of money.

Kidd
Pierce
Stojakovic
Ray Allen
Marion
Abdur-Rahim
Sczerbiak
Jason Richardson
Jason Terry
Al Harrington
Caron Butler
Matt Harpring
Walker & Stackhouse (duh)
Mashburn
Chandler

Me too. Van Gundy will make him pass a lot more and play defense a lot harder, two things that McGrady can use in his game. He won't have the go-ahead to shoot everytime he touches the ball and we'll see if he gets used to that. I can't wait.

So who's going to run the point in Houston? I suspect it's going to end up being Derek Fisher; any other rumors out there?

I don't know, that's a good question. Hell, McGrady could carry the ball down court.

Knicks rumor is Stackhouse for Kurt Thomas. Ugh.

Anyway, I'm hella excited about this. The Rockets are literally the only professional sports team I have any loyalty to.

Duke schedules news conference for 5:45 edt.

Even with the Pistons, Pacers and (maybe) Heat, next year might be even more embarassing for the Eastern Conference.

"even more" embarrassing? how was it embarrassing to have the best team in the eastern conference beat the shit out of the lakers in the finals? I mean, the regular season may have indicated one thing, but the post-season proved who the best team in the league was, and it wasn't the lakers, spurs, t'wolves, kings, mavericks or anyone else from the west.

The Mavs are so screwed if they can't/don't land Shaq now.

Mavs are going to have a REALLY tough time landing Shaq without giving up Nowitski now that Nash is out of the equation. Ray Allen is on the block and VC wants out of Toronto. And Mike K would be an idiot to take that job in LA... Seriously, since successful college coaches have done SO WELL in the NBA.

Anyway, see y'all in 2 weeks. I figure half the teams in the NBA will look totally different!

Barring some major shakeups (always poss with Cuban), the Mavs might be lucky to finish third in the Midwest.

One major upside - it's always entertaining to watch the Dallas media and fans turn on an owner/GM in no time flat.

So you've got

Harris
Daniels
Finley
Laettner?!
Shaq

There's no way that team is better than the Lakers were last year, or McGrady-Yao, Duncan's Spurs, etc. Shaq and one superstar+outside shooter was one thing, Shaq, no superstar and losing most of the outside game? Not pretty.

Plus, if you want Shaq to play, you've got to give him $30mln+ for two more years on top of his current two. If you're unwilling to give a slightly younger, smaller player half of that for cap/financial reasons, that's a mighty big risk.

I'm sure Cuban and the Nelsons know way more about basketball than I ever could, but I don't get what they're doing. The only realistic options (to me) were either to sign Nash, not worry about trouble on the back end of that deal, go hard for Shaq and try to win one or two in the next couple of years, then rebuild. Or, let Nash go, forget about Shaq, and figure out a way to go back into rebuilding mode (ie no championships, no home-court playoffs) right now. But Cuban isn't into delayed gratification.

Teams that could be pretty easily be better than the Mavericks:
Suns
Jazz
Grizzlies

Team that doesn't deserve to better than the Mavericks, but might be:
Lakers

Hello, lottery!

Carlos Boozer going to Utah, C/D?

http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gund_boozer_040714.html

I wonder what the conversations with Lebron on the Olympic team are going to be like.

Can't wait to see that Nuggest frontcourt next year.

Devin Harris
Brokedown Fin
Marquis Daniels (better pray that the end of last season wasn't a fluke)
'Toine
Dirk

with Laettner, Stackhouse, Howard, Bradley Avery Johnson and Najera on the bench. The Tall White Guy doesn't count, he won't see the floor this year.

I hope that pick they traded for Tall White Guy is lottery protected or Devin Harris is the second coming in his rookie year.

Dampier's all but gone, simply biding time for the right sign+trade deal to crop up.

The Mavs can still trade for Vince Carter and add another underacheiving whiny SF who needs 90 shots a game to be effective.

I love Cuban but his analysis of why the Pistons won the Championship (because they made shots and the Lakers didn't, as if defense or team chemistry had nothing to do with it) shows why the Mavs will continue to be also-rans in this league.

So, Pistons are actually going to be better this year than last - adding Delfino and McDyess (who should be able to give them 20 min a game) plus keeping Rasheed with only giving up Okur who wasn't going anywhere in a Pistons uni. Not really scared of Miami because that team has like 4 players (even though one is Shaq and the other is D Wade) and 1.5 mil to try to sign 8 more. Pacers upgrade with Stephen Jackson who I swear is a totally overrated player. Nets are imploding. Hornets are in the West now. None of the other teams have really improved.... I'm guessing they win 64 next year with the usual "if everyone stays healthy" caveat.

T-Wolves looking mighty nice in the West right now.

No one knows for sure except this handsome guy.

Marc Stein floats some great ones.

I have no idea, actually.

Anybody else excited about Olympic basketball? Lebron / Melo alley-oops in the summer - it doesn't get any better, right?

Uh ... anyway, didn't a lot of Serbs just cancel out? Divac, Milic, Peja?

I can't remember the name of the Italian that drained 7 threes, but I bet there are some NBA clubs that are going to be making some calls.

I like

Terry
Finley
Daniels
Dirk
Shawn FUCKING Bradley
w/ Josh Howard and Devin Harris off the bench

better than
Harris
Finley
Daniels
'Toine
Dirk
w/ Howard and the Tall White Guy Center Rotation coming off the bench

also, this probably means no trade for Kidd which I see as a franchise-dooming move. Older than Nash, way more money than Nash, bigger injury problems than Nash. Anyone who trades for his 5yrs/90mln without see him play half a season or a full season is nuts.

Ouch! I guess the US is going to have to get with it and actually have a true national team, not just a pickup squad put together a month before the Olympics.

ERICK DAMPIER IS GETTING THE SAME MONEY AS KENYON MARTIN.

This is going to bite the Mavericks in the ass in a major, major way.

What's Dampier gonna be like in 2011 when he's 38 and making $13mln?

They've traded away the next three years of first-round picks, maybe more (didn't Washington get a first somewhere along the line?). That's a huge gamble if Dirk goes down or something comparably bad happens.

It was probably smart to go into breakdown and rebuild mode after missing out on Shaq, but this switches that completely.

If they were getting Dampier to make a run for the next two or three years (when he's definitely going to drop off the face of the Earth) Cuban definitely should have re-signed Nash, he can't claim cap flexibility or anything else was in the way.

But he didn't want to pay luxury tax, etc. Cut back on the personal DVD players and maybe it won't hurt so bad, dude.

Well, I feel vindicated for the way I've been watching the Olympics, yelling at American Olympians for letting me down PERSONALLY when they fail to attain gold.

But seriously, last I checked the starting 5 of the Pistons were all black, and they played a style which is pretty close to Intl game with it's tough interior defense, ball movement, team play, etc.

Anyway, in my daily "Chad Ford said this and thus it is true".... $1 billion was spent of free agents this summer.... Funny how Cuban argued that 65 million was too much for a 30 year old PG who's had a lot of injuries but 75 million for a 29 year old C who's had even more injuries (and lacks heart) is okay. Dampier will be nice for a couple years but BOY are Mavs fans gunna be angry in 3-4 years when there's a new collective bargaining agreement and he's sitting on the bench resting his sore knees pulling down 20% of the team's salary... and the owners have basically proven exactly why the league needs a salary cap.

Cuban's analysis of the future of digital media: A+
http://blogmaverick.com/entry/7706137582525561/

Cuban's ability to GM a successful basketball team: C-

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/040826