Americans dislike of Britain

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be sure to loop! loop! loop! and hstencil, among others, have expressed an antipathy to britain (well, in jons case, the whole of europe). they have been dotted around on different threads though

here they can have a home, alongside any other anti-britain/europe information from ilxors.

this is the thread where you, as an american, can criticize british people and britain, and also, if you have time, the rest of europe..

tell me, what do you hate the most?

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:15 (twenty-two years ago)

The way they are so open to, and even invite criticism as if it is a good thing.

― Pete (Pete), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I hate their puerile obsession with alcohol and football. Grow up.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Is that because you can't hold your drink & don't understand football?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Men kicking a ball about... what's there to understand? As for holding my drink, it's not really a problem because I don't feel somehow morally obliged to drink 12 pints at a single sitting. You wacky brits!

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hahahahahahahahahaha!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I bet 'hata' is a brit

― Michael B, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i am from australia and - despite tony blair - have no antipathy to ye olde country.

i just don't want your queen on our stanmps

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never yet met an American who has expressed a dislike of Britain. France and Canada is a different matter of course.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Gaz, I don't want the Queen on our stamps either.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I am a man with extensive experience of British life and culture, but I am not British. Football bores me, endless bragging about how much you've drunk or how bad your hangover is bores me, all manifestations of British moronic yob culture disgust me, your weather depresses me, your pessimism makes me pessimistic, your licensing laws make life less pleasurable, your rents and restaurant prices bankrupt me, your low water pressure exasperates me, your Martin Amis, Salman Rushdie and Julian Barnes stupefy me... the rest of the UK is OK though.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Yankee Go Home

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i'd say that's fair enough (xpost)

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

how considerate of gareth in the current ilx climate to start a thread inviting people to be racist.

― Marcello Carlin, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:52 (twenty-two years ago)

The British aren't a race.

(actually I like the UK, but all countries have their detestable things)

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 08:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, once again, it's not really racism (particularly in tight-white Jon W's case) - it's more like kicking your senile old grandmother's shins as she sleeps after dinner.

xpost.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Friday, 28 May 2004 08:55 (twenty-two years ago)

The food is bland!!! The worst food in the world.

― Frances Schultz, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:02 (twenty-two years ago)

except for the Indian which you have when you eat out or the stuff you cook for yourself when you stay in.

In the US of course you have TAco Bell and MacDonalds for eating out.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:05 (twenty-two years ago)

British high streets all have exactly the same stores and cafés -it's boring!

The food is not necessarily bland, but you have to pay through the nose to get good food.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:06 (twenty-two years ago)

hata - you are soooo wrong, but I ain't getting into an arguement about it.

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:08 (twenty-two years ago)

who invented economies of scale again?

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe not Britain, but every high street in London looks the same - one FCUK, one Caffe Nero, one Pret-a-manger, one Waterstones, etc., etc.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Whereas strip malls are the pinnacle of cultural variety and aesthetic appeal, of course.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

at least they're not on the high street!

― mullygrubber (gaz), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Really I think the British people are on a loser here if we try to argue. We should just take this thread on the chin, try and enjoy the abuse if we can, or try not to click here if we can't.

Most of what's been said above is what I'd feel as a visitor here, I think. The best stuff anywhere is usually difficult to locate.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I think US strip malls and UK high street homogeny are equally dire.

I also think that Britains who dislike America >>> Americans who dislike Britian

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

but you only go to the high street to shop! And in most towns in the uk the high street = banks, butchers, florists, bakers,etc. as well as the ubiquitous clothes, shoes, electrical good retailers, etc. As for there being fcuks, caffe neros, pret, waterstones - have you been to any town outside the M25, or anywhere non-touristy?

x-post, and Tim otm re. how vistors perceive things.

― Vicky (Vicky), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"We should just take this thread on the chin"

Brits have no backbone either.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, rubbish aren't we?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:25 (twenty-two years ago)

at least we use our real names hata

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I dislike the high taxes but I like the NHS, so I guess I don't dislike hte high taxes too much. No I just hate council tax. That's because I live in Haringey.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I also think that Britains who dislike America >>> Americans who dislike Britian

True. Marianna go and tip some teabags in the Thames that might help!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:30 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost)

Pink Panther is someone's real name? And how exactly do you pronounce stevem?

I think you can take this thread as friendly joshing rather than venomous hate. As I said upthread, I do actually like the UK, but every country has its annoyances.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:31 (twenty-two years ago)

In Edinburgh we have decent water pressure and enlightened licensing laws.

― leigh (leigh), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that Merkin dislike of Britain is possibly less than it was seven or so years ago, coz when I shared a house with Merkins the things they complained about largely centred on how inconvenient it was that they couldn't get cash when they wanted, they couldn't get food when they wanted coz the supermarkets were not open 24-7 ect ect. Since then, the number of ATMs has increased and more shops *are* open 24-7, so it is presumably more to Merkins liking. Also, the range of US chains over here continues to increase (when did Starbucks arrive? there are certainly *far more of them* than there used to be). Improve the weather, bring over Jack in the Box and Dairy Queen and a few more Taco Bells and I think the majority of Merkins would be quite happy with 2004 UK.

Oh, and Liz OTM and Marcello misguided.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Marianna go and tip some teabags in the Thames that might help

I do not think that will endear my countrymen to the British. But, it might attract more wayward seals to the Thames! I love the wayward seals.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I could actually be very happy living in the UK, if it weren't for the weather. Those endless winters when it never really gets light and what light there is disappears by 4, they really are depressing.

― hata, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Really I think the British people are on a loser here if we try to argue

for some reason i think this is a subject that will be more interesting if it provokes angry debate. we brits are too used to assuming we are utterly charming to the americans.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Does anyone remember the wayward porpoise frolicking in the Thames a few summers ago? That was great.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm utterly charming all the time to everybody though

― C J (C J), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Taco Bell is awful tho, there used to be one in Uxbridge

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:36 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX Merkins currently living in Britain - 6 at least
ILX Brits currently living in America - 0

Britain proved better by science.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX Brits currently living in America - 0

i think Paul K and Simon R should count

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:37 (twenty-two years ago)

and Adam of course

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

In Edinburgh we have decent water pressure and enlightened licensing laws.

Yes, but what about the people who live there? Gumph!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

No-one "dislikes America". It would be like holding a grudge against the color green, or the letter 'H'.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Okay, Steve. We still win though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Dadaismus do you like ANY city's people??

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Also I'd like to be the first to welcome Dave Q back. We missed you!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Look, I'm an American and I like Britain. Too bad if you don't like it fuxxors.

xpost

― Bimble (bimble), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone but Edinburgh stevie

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:39 (twenty-two years ago)

MarkH, I think is the having to adjust to a new culture that is annoying. I suspect that it's just as hard (and annoying) to adjust to move to America if you are from UK - but maybe the Britians are a little less arrogant (or ignorant) and expect the adjustment, rather than get so annoyed.

However I find British people in general to be a bit more presumptious that they know a lot about America, and are very arrogant about their preconceptions of American behavior. I come across that attitude frequently and I hate it.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

http://altmed.creighton.edu/preg/images/letter%20H.gif

CLASSIC!

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that would be as bad or worse elsewhere.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

i think we often use the merkins' enthusiasm for our airs and graces to help fuel a false self-image. we need to embrace our vulgarity, and mediocrity in order to transcend them.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:43 (twenty-two years ago)

hahaha stevem I kiss you.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Marianna otm.

― sgs (sgs), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I must now shape this thread so that it ends up with a torches-and-pitchforks mob heading up to the castle to kill Richard Curtis.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i am an american and i have issues with britain. on the other hand these issues are similar to - but on a much smaller scale than - my problems with americans from the east and northeastern seaboard so i won't get into it. it's mainly a vague sense of being condescended to.

this is all x-post with marianna and pretty much the same thing.

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Marianna, give examples.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:45 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that would be as bad or worse elsewhere.

I think that is true - and I'm not denying that Americans have dumb misconceptions about the British - it's just with the Brits, they seem so much more haughty and certain about them being correct.

I mean, come on people, not all American beer is crap! :)

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Most British beer is crap too

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

all American beer that I've drunk in Britain has been crap which I think is where the confusion lies.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:48 (twenty-two years ago)

My theory is that because British people are exposed to 10x or more American culture though TV/NEWS etc, they really feel that they know the place without having set foot in it.

Mark, examples of Brit preconceptions about Americans?

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

yes.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Just things that annoy me for example - when Brits make fun of Americans for not knowing how to pronouce place names (like Leicester Sq) - when I have rarely heard a British person pronouce Michigan eg correctly. The misconception that American people pronounce things wrong is correct but hypocritical. :. I don't like how many Brits delight in making fun of my countrymen for not knowing how to say quays or worchester.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Mitchagen?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

That's how most people wrongly say it.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 09:57 (twenty-two years ago)

mishy gun?

anyway, we do that kinda thing amongst ourselves Marianna, not that i'm condoning it, as anyone from Yorkshire who has ever asked someone in London for a glass of water will tell you.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

including Americans based on what i've heard.

x-post

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

mmmm, american beer. Sierra nevada, red hook esb, brooklyn larger....

― Vicky (Vicky), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh i liked it, perhaps not the bacon beer again tho eh

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

That's cause we have stupid spellings that bear no resemblance to how the place name is actually pronounced unlike say, Poughkeepsie.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i recommend a visit to Whycombee, just off the A40 - they have a THX cinema

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah it's more like Mish-eh-gen.

There is a sort of sneering contempt that goes along with all the preconceptions, which doesn't exist in the other direction, and although I now know all the correct retorts (as all americans learn after 2 years living here) it still bothers me.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:03 (twenty-two years ago)

The beer thing is quite interesting coz to some extent its the kind of example I gave about convenience upthread in reverse - just as things have improved in convenience terms in the uk, so the range of beers which is available in the US has improved as laws against micorbreweries have been lifted in many states.

I was rather hoping for an example which was specific to British attitudes to America and Americans anyway. Not trying to triivialise the example Marianna gave, I appreciate it must be annoying, but it is a generic "Let's have a laugh at Johnny Foreigner's expense" type of thing.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:04 (twenty-two years ago)

*It doesn't really bother me that much anymore - but for the sake of the thread!*

Well, I think the British act more condesceding with their "have a laugh at Johnny Foreigner's expense" thing than most cultures - and I think there is more vitriol directed towards American stereotypes than towards the French. There is a lot of anger directed at ginger people though, and that perplexes me.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:07 (twenty-two years ago)

some british attitudes to americans (for mark who has apparently been living in a cave): they all voted for bush, they are all extremely right wing and expansionist, they all own suvs, they have the ethics, greed and refusal to accept personal responsibility of spoiled toddlers, they are all brash, overfriendly and loud, they expect all countries to supply them with specifically american products and foodstuffs, that's if they bother travelling at all, they are endlessly and pettily litigious, they are vulgarly obsessed with money and profit, they are fat, they have a uniquely strident sense of entitlement, they are racist.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:10 (twenty-two years ago)

http://userpic.livejournal.com/11533260/707006

― Sarah (starry), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

(Dadaismus do you like ANY city's people?? -- stevem

Everyone but Edinburgh stevie -- Dadaismus

Dada having a mellow mood day shokkah! ;)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Can at this point interject that a lot of attitudes commonly attributed to the "British" are actually English - e.g. Francophobia, I have NEVER encountered this in Scotland

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

and after the stitch up of the auld alliance, you would be entitled to, as well!

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:12 (twenty-two years ago)

also; they are corrupt, ignorant, cruel, spinelessly anglophilic, arrogant and phillistinical.

come on americans, fight back!!!

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I had a pleasant couple of years living in London, a city I very much like despite the crap weather, expensive rents and all those other usual complaints. But I definitely felt the condescension though, sometimes unconscious, sometimes utterly deliberate: "You colonials don't have any culture, do you" and other memes that are about 40 years out of date. I suppose all countries do that "foreigners aren't they weird" thing to some degree, but the English do it with a touch more arrogance than most.

― random australian, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The American attitudes towards Brits seem a bit less snide:
All Brits know the Queen. All Brits have bad teeth. British people are very polite, and they are prudish.

The only really crappy one I've ever heard is when people say that Britan were handling WW2 poorly and that Americans saved their butts.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm thinking that you shouldn't really have brought up WW2 marianna!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Hang on, the Americans think the Brits are prudish????

All Brits *do* have bad teeth. But that's coz you can scour the country from John O'Groats to Lands End without encountering a dentist for love or money.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i apologise for starting this at the wrong time, i should have waited till jon and joel woke up

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Uh oh! That's the only really negative american attitude towards brits that I can think of now.

Here's my sweeping generalization though: people here are totally obsessed with WW2 - there has freqently been a hitler or ww2 documentary on bbc1/2, itv and ch4 at the same time! i'm surpised by some of the latent anti-german stuff that still exists.

Hang on, the Americans think the Brits are prudish????

This is one of the weirdiest misconceptions that Americans have. I think it comes from seeing dowdy people on TV.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm surpised by some of the latent anti-german stuff that still exists.

Again, I think this is much more of an English thing than a British thing and, pathetically, it's also connected with football.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Football. We have come full circle. The thread must not go on.

― marianna, Friday, 28 May 2004 10:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Pink Panther is someone's real name?

I can't help it if my parents weren't conventional. Oh & it's Steve M.

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I am obviously kidding in my hatred of Britain! They just don't have any good recent music!

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Although I think that warm beer is bad.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

there's no FCUK, or Caffe Nero, or Pret-a-manger, or Waterstones in Highgate village afaik.

there's a cafe rouge though, which rocks.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

fair point Dadaismus, i think Dave Amos was otm regarding the stereotypical negative perception of Americans by the British (or English if you prefer). Perhaps another thing to point out is the different ways/levels this sort of thing is reflected in our sense of humour in the UK. for some reason I recall an old episode of the highly amusing KYTV which focussed on Europe and deliberately made light of all the usual stereotypes including an American one via the use of quiz show contestants - obvious ironic stance, akin to the playful tho often grating stereotyping we see on The Simpsons (esp. towards the French) - done in a more 'isn't this attitude stupid hence funny' way rather than 'ha ha, all Germans really ARE Nazis' or whatever

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I had my eyes opened to merkin berr while over there, but it seemed to be a few gems in a pool of same tasting brews, very hoppy too.

but, as Vic said, the sierra nevada pale ale, the red hook esb and the brooklyn lager were very good.

bacon beer? one sniff made me nauseous.

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:54 (twenty-two years ago)

BACON BEER???? i must try this.

do they have kebab beer too? a whole night out in a pint

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

What about pizza beer?

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

tandoori beer!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

omg the BEERYANI!!!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:58 (twenty-two years ago)

ken on to a winner there

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

No ken is the winner with that one!

― Pinkpanther (Pinkpanther), Friday, 28 May 2004 10:59 (twenty-two years ago)

America has great beers.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 11:21 (twenty-two years ago)

we need cinniblount on this thread to tell us about the questions he has asked himself since seeing Love Actually.

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 11:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Empire, empire, empire, empire. Britain used to be one, and the US is now one.
Britain still acts like its an empire, and the US goes bumbling around in an imperialist fashion and ends up looking foolish.
I LOVE England and Scotland. I spent part of my formative years in Scotland, with my Scottish dad (now deceased).
To me, the history that I was surrounded by at all times, in Scotland (and England - many relations there too)was paramount to my experience. Walking across the auld brig in Ayr was amazing- and something that was taken for granted by the residents of Ayr. I returned to the US seeking history.
There is a complex and wonderful history in the U.S.A., but it is often ignored. That's because a nation this huge and unwieldy is neccesarily a beast without a head - in terms of cultural identity, noone admits they're American. Everyone gives a long, complicated story about their lineage - Irish-American, Italian - American. The best part is- ask an American where they come from. 'I'm English and French on my moms side, and Irish and Italian on my dads side."
I live in Massachusetts - whew! it took me a while to spell it! Seriously! - that's a Native American name. common history says the pilgrims came over and settled everything. But look at the place names! There's a Scotland, Ma. and a Paris, Ma. and Leicester and Worcester. There's also a Chicopee, Agawam, and Mashpee.
If every American would settle down and study their own place - Michigan, Wyoming, Connecticut - and try to understand how there state got its name, we might be able to have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world. Until we know and appreciate our own history we really don't have the right to try to impose our version of democracy on anyone.
But we did kick butt in WWII. When we're good we're very very good - and when we are bad, we are awful.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 11:33 (twenty-two years ago)

So you're Scots American are you?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 11:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Scots through my dad and Yankee through my mom - all the way back to William Bradford. I'm a spendy person who can't control my money - you would think some of the thriftiness would drip down. But NO.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 11:50 (twenty-two years ago)

american girls are pretty.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I could contradict that last statement but have decided not to go there

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:04 (twenty-two years ago)

coz you don't want to be a liar.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:06 (twenty-two years ago)

That doesn't usually worry me

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I enjoyed a lot of stuff about the UK. It was a lot more fun this time around than a decade ago (for about a million different reasons the main one being of course Ally) but I have to say I was really relieved to get back home and brush my teeth and wash myself with REAL water and not the London mineral solution which splutters out of your pipes over there. I don't think either of us ever actually felt completely clean the whole time we were over there, it also doesn't help that London also is apparently blanketed in some kind of atmospheric filth which manifests itself doubly during the downpours.

One thing I really miss about being over there is the ready availability of Original Source products and Lucozade everywhere. Also all of your candy is better and the bars and clubs generally seem to play much, much better music to my ears. But the prices, yeah, how the fuck do you people live?

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Yea, god the air was so fucking dirty in London, I remember feeling like I had grit all over me there.

Norwich was nice.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

By not living in London. It's not all nasty in the UK, you know. (xpost)

― ailsa (ailsa), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

London water is fucking horrible, aye.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Americans are so anal about cleanliness.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I am immune to this water and air stuff having been drinking and inhaling it for about 25 years.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.completelybonkers.com/images-teeth/austin-powers.jpg

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

A little bit of dirt never hurt anyone, ya big girl's blouses

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:20 (twenty-two years ago)

new york beer was the same, if not more expensive than london beer though, unless you go for generic p!sswater

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:21 (twenty-two years ago)

"New York Beer"? What the fuck is that?

ALSO, OUR BEER COSTS MORE BECAUSE IT HAS THE SWEET TASTE OF FREEDOM IN IT, YOU BUNCH OF SOCIALIST TWITS.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris speaks the truth, especially if you factor in the CRAZY TIPPING BUSINESS and the TOY PINTS.

OK I gave in.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

WTF?!? I don't hate Britain! well, not anymore than Momus hates America. I want to visit and I have friends there and every British ILXor I've met has been "top, mate."

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

London water is about the worst in the country. It is literally undrinkable.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm not literally Pash.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:24 (twenty-two years ago)

this loop loop person has been at the lopp lopp methinks

new york beer = the beer in new york you useless tosser.
I liked the US much more than I thought I would tbh

x-posts galore

I drink London water all the time, tastes fine to me

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and to all you Brits who think I hate British people, Keith Rowe says "hi." He was fucking awesome last night, "blokes."

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Oxford water is far, far worse than London water.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Stick it in a bottle, bung it in the fridge for a while and it tastes fine

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:26 (twenty-two years ago)

again, what do you mean by New York beer? I can get any beer i fucking want in new york, you flaming british dunce

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Kinda sorta funny for an American to complain and LONG for the big shower that's available back in America, where a huge percentage of the population doesn't have access to health care, housing or food.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:28 (twenty-two years ago)

New York beer? = Brooklyn Lager? Even that's made in Utica, mostly.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah but they can get any beer they fucking want in New York

xpost LITERALIST RUINED MY JOKE

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Americans who talk in the first person plural are getting it wrong. That's a politician's gimmick to force some really appalling ideas down everyone's throat. "We Americans are a Christian nation" sort of thing: what about the tens of millions who aren't Christians, and what about the multiple of that figure, including Christians, who, say, don't want abortion banned? Which goes for "we might have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world." Well, "we" aren't capable as individuals of electing a government that would be inclined to adopt a given style of comportment, so pardon me if I'm not gonna agree with the notion that me and nearly every person I know isn't inclined to have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world.

Anyhow, my main problem with British people (really, this applies almost exclusively to English people) is that there's a fraction who live in NYC who nearly to a man (and it's nearly all men) the most unpleasant folks I have ever met. They're deliberately rude to nearly everyone they meet, putting on a show of earnestness to ridicule anything they come across, and then they claim that, for ignoring the constant spew of nastiness, "Americans have no sense of humor." "Sense of humor"? No, "mate," we're just MORE POLITE THAN YOU.

There's a little of this when you meet strangers in the UK sometimes (as if we don't know what "septic" means, you fucking drip), but it's negligible. I hope the asshole Brit in America was exiled for his repellent personality, and probably has a nice, but not too nice, job, where he despises everyone.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-two years ago)

ok not literally, but it is fucking horrible!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

OK, seriously now, this has got to be the worst review ever

British music journalism

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:33 (twenty-two years ago)

(Hey Ben did you get my email?)

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

jesus, the decent beers we were getting on draught in the "cheats" pints that weren't actually pints that were about 5 dollar a pop (e.g. sierra nevada, or Brooklyn etc) with dollar tip on top that takes them over the three quid a pint mark.

The only cheap stuff was the P1ss that budweiser try and pass off as drinkable

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

dude Tombot Jon beat you to it.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"We Americans are a Christian nation" sort of thing

ISN'T THAT THIRD PERSON NOT FIRST?!? Cripes, who invented your language?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, the thing with the water being so hard it's a calcium supplement, I thought I explained. If you're used to 'softened' water London is awful.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

oh I guess you're right, "first person plural," whatever.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:35 (twenty-two years ago)

anyway, I can't wait for the day when all Americans speak Spanish.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

also yeah why are there so many expat Brits in NYC? And how do they get such great jobs, usually?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Dude, NYC is expensive, big shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

haha ts: london water vs http://www.vietgrove.com/images/hatorade.gif

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Lopp lopp, I was responding to you saying how expensive the UK is, for sobbing out loud

and Florida was similar price btw

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Canterbury tap water is the absolute worst. Its a kind of dull translucent grey colour for about five minutes after leaving the tap.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait, when did I post that?

Florida was a pricey as NYC? Where were you, Epcot Center?

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Canterbury tap water is the absolute worst.

yeah but there's something about it that helped produce the best psychedelia, d00d.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

when i was a kid i was scared straight of Britian. it was all the BBC programs i watched, no joke. everything seemed familiar enough, but at the same time everything was a bit off.

― kephm, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:40 (twenty-two years ago)

'Well, "we" aren't capable as individuals of electing a government that would be inclined to adopt a given style of comportment, so pardon me if I'm not gonna agree with the notion that me and nearly every person I know isn't inclined to have a decent dialogue with the rest of the world.'

maybe we (sorry) should split up into smaller countries. Vermont could be a nation. The South could unite again. Massachusetts and CConnecticut and New York would be an awesome country. New Hampshire and Maine would probably get along. California is already its own country.

If this happened, we could debate endlessly about regional differences - but it would be INTERNATIONAL! Just like hating the french, but better!

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:43 (twenty-two years ago)

that would suck, d00d, I'd need like 5 different passports.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:44 (twenty-two years ago)

London water must be pure, how can something that has passed through so many kidneys not be pure as the driven snow.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim, no, I didn't! But coincidentally I just e-mailed you five minutes ago.

Chris, the best cheap beer in America is Mexican. At Pedro's: $2 bottles til 7 ($3 afterwards). Next time!

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

aimurchie, in neglecting RI shocka!

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Mexican beer is kinda more watery than American beer, tho I like it (had two Coronas at Tonic last night).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

My only problems with the UK is that I can never wash all the shampoo out of my hair and the washing machines are not ideal. And the whole thing about the water in London having trace amounts of estrogen and fish in it. I hate carbonation and cold liquids so the beer there is perfect for me and I could live off ready made food at M&S and Sainsbury.

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Corona is so much better with citrus....

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:48 (twenty-two years ago)

nope, never went anywhere near Epcot. Miami, and then down the keys.

and Sorry loop loop it was Tom saying how pricey it was in London, which is odd as it's comparable to NYC pretty much

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I can never wash all the shampoo out of my hair and the washing machines are not ideal.

That's right. You should never attempt to wash yr hair in one.

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Mexican beer, it's good, especially that dark dos equis.

Ben, when you over here then? and yes, next time.

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Carey, do not start the washing machine argument again

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

At least we have washing machines in out flats, eh Carey? (x-post)

Ben: did you use my work address? I used "inch" for you, is that so wrong?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Aimurchie, yeah regional differences here are ignored by outsiders (and hell, loads of Americans themselves, unless they grew up in places where they're a part of life, like N.E., the south, parts of the west). And while maybe it would have all been easier if each colony went its own way, that's crackpot stuff now. I just don't want to be held accountable to some ignoramus's stereotype of Americans based on my stereotype of, say, small town midwesterners.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Oops Oops Oops. How could I forget the "biggest little state in the union"? Little Rhody has always been a rebel - therefore, RI should go with NH and ME.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Tim, Inch is no more. The linked one here works fine. I'll resend to your work address.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Pedro's remains #1 on my nice little boozers chart for 2004, despite strong competition. You missed a treat, Cabbage.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

No it's quite true that the beer/drink prices are quite different especially after tipping. When we were at cargo stevem mentioned that it was a bit pricey and I was standing there looking at the bottle of Erdinger Hefeweisse in my hand that came out to about $6 equivalent and thinking "how in the world is this pricey, maybe I should not invite stevem to come visit DC after all, yikes"

The prices for other items, especially transport, food and any beverage involving liquor were what kind of blew my mind.

The funny thing is that after trying the Original Source Mint stuff out in London and barely getting any lather at all I brought it home and realized that WHOOOO that shit tingles like a motherfucker with soft water. WHOOOO. WHOOOOOO.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

People have washing machines AND dryers in their flats here.

I still love the UK more than the US though. Maybe I should just start rinsing my hair with bottled water so I can just move.

Why do we not have Jelly Babies in the U.S.????

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Because you're too HARD.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:53 (twenty-two years ago)

At least we have washing machines in out flats, eh Carey?

got a washer/dryer in my flat, er apartment.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris, I need a job! So not soon, and the London/Ghana possibility with that NGO thing didn't work out. Oh well.

I've said this to the point of cliche but I can't stand not having a dry towel. That's my biggest beef with the UK.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I was referring to the thread Matt linked, perhaps the first in a long and proud line of which this is another.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:57 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Non-Americans thinking they know all about America when they don't vs. Americans knowing nothing about non-America and not caring

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 28 May 2004 12:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, Tim, I think Defend the Indefensible: British People Not Rinsing Soap Off the Dishes came first.

Now of course we have assimilated your Tracer Hand and we are not giving him back.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

"and hell, loads of Americans themselves, unless they grew up in places where they're a part of life, like N.E., the south, parts of the west"

Um - isn't that the entire U.S.? It is a crackpot notion to split the nation up into smalller bits - but a crackpot notion that has a lot of historical precedent. My initial post was about cultural identity - we (sorry) have none. Regional identity might be our (sorry) cultural identity. in which case - celebrate! And if it means a war between the states, so be it.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Ben, get one!! (I know I know)

We need to take you to crap little pubs with great beer

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:01 (twenty-two years ago)

And if it means a war between the states, so be it.

we already had one o' those, don'tchaknow?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but the South's gonna rise again

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

in our dreams, only.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

'sides the South won the culture war a long time ago, isn't that enough?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Were you tipping taxis, Tom?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Tombot, £3.20 for a standard size bottle of beer, even if it's Erdinger wheat beer, is still kinda expensive...

London water is awful but I've been drinking it all my life...

Complaints like 'warm beer' and 'dry towel absence' are funny in both senses of the word

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:06 (twenty-two years ago)

what, you mean warm beer contributes to the absence of dry towels?

― MarkH (MarkH), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

i've never had a warm beer in the UK. dry towels CAN be had if you know where to get them tho.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:09 (twenty-two years ago)

on the raadiator, obv

― Ed (dali), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Here is a restaurant in DC which serves lots and lots and lots of different kinds of beer. Their price for a real pint bottle of Erdinger is $5.75 and yeah you're going to have to tip.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's have more UK hate. You'll be on a pretty, tree-lined street in a British city, with low row houses and no litter in sight, a couple little shops and maybe a pub open nearby, and your British companion will be in abject terror of the sketchiness of the neighborhood. Whereas here, you know when you're in the wrong damn place.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Meanwhile, I am always several posts behind for some reason - probably because I am not very quick with the computer thing. My point being -
let's have a war between the states again! I mean - with all the sniping and backbiting - never mind the economic isolation between states - it is already happening.
Plus, a big fat civil war in the US would probably unite the entire Middle East - which is the goal of our big fat Iraq war, right?
It could have long reaching beneficial consequences - like world peace. So grab your pitchforks and close your state borders.

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Based on my run-in on the way home from the Dun-A-Ri I would have to agree that Ben is probably right. That's still kind of fucking with my head.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Whereas here, you know when you're in the wrong damn place.

like in, say, Riverside Park?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:18 (twenty-two years ago)

where were you when you got messed with Tom?

― chris (chris), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh sorry my washing machine thing was supposed to point to this thread, which was the cause of much consternment in the pub all those years ago. Little trip down memory lane anyone?

Doing the laundry: Classic or Dud?

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Pretty trees = all the better for murderers and rapists to hide behind.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Well we were inebriated and it was dark but we were somewhere on the way from the Dun-A-Ri headed to Russell Square. We eventually got unsure of our directions after the punch-up and took a cab all of about 3 blocks to get home because a bladder was about to explode, but I remember we were actually very close to the hotel at that point.

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose that area's NYC equivalent would be maybe Gramercy Park...

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Jesus Matt why did you bring that up, we have that too

― TOMBOT, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:27 (twenty-two years ago)

ordering a "sub" in the UK would seem to be on the level of removing one's intestines via ballpoint pen
-- strongo hulkington (dubplatestyl... <webmail.php?msgid=4674536>), May 28th, 2004.

the real hatas are elsewhere

― Dave Amos, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

don't fuck wit grammercy

― bnw (bnw), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I know I'm probably just being Captain Obvious here, but I believe most of the British/American dislike is based on stereotype, esp. what's presented in the media, rather than the truth. I lived in the UK for two years (and am married to an Essex boy), and I put the major beef more with situation/city (Aberdeen) than the normal little dislikes that most people mention. Living there definately prompted me to re-evaluate life in the US at the moment. I think the scariest thing for me was the everyday racism and banality and Pee-do-philes perpetrated by The Sun and other tabloids. (Curse you people, now I crave beer that never struck me as warm and Dairy Milk.)

― Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

On the other hand if Brits in New York=Zoe Heller no wonder everyone is scared of them.

― Jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 28 May 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I love everywhere I've been in the UK (not many places, mind). I only have a few qualms. 1) London is too expensive 2)'bottomless beverages' are unheard of 3)no fountain soda and 3)grey days. I need sunshine and refills.

― mandee, Friday, 28 May 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I love iron bru - made from girders! AArgh!

― aimurchie, Friday, 28 May 2004 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

All Brits *do* have bad teeth. But that's coz you can scour the country from John O'Groats to Lands End without encountering a dentist for love or money.

Our hotel on our visit last week was about 4 blocks away from the "International Centre For Excellence in Dentistry" though!! Ah yes, the amusement that caused me for quite a few minutes after I saw that etc.

But yes, the whole neighborhood thing, we always had quite a good laugh about it, discussing various Americans' trip to the UK, that their companions would be freaking out about the most benign-looking of neighborhoods, "Oh this is so sketchy" and it'd be the cleanest, quietest street in the world, but now I am thinking perhaps it is not so funny after having to tear apart a fist fight and threatening to burn a man about 5 blocks off Russell Square. The funny thing is, and I spoke to Tracer Hand about this, Brixton is a "bad neighborhood" yet never anything like this! I imagine it's cos perhaps in the "bad neighborhoods" there everyone else is convinced the other person is dead hard and psycho so they don't start shit? It is refreshing to not have to worry that your random assaulter isn't carrrying a gun though, as the last major altercation I can recall being involved with in a NYC club involved 4 or 5 people who were all strapping.

― Allyzay, Friday, 28 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-two years ago)

You can find dentists but they have waiting lists just to get registered with them.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ally my suspicion is that you & Tom were just unlucky, I'm afraid. I've never seen any hint of bother even in Bloomsbury's baddest bits, but idiots can pop up anywhere.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha the idea of Bloomsbury having a baddest bit is quite hysterical to me.

― Allyzay, Friday, 28 May 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah me too.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:45 (twenty-two years ago)

(It's pretty much badd-free, so it can't really be used as an example of the "sketchy neighbourhood which looks serene and pleasant to Americans" idea, is the point)

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah no, I mean I'm pretty sure we just ran into a jackass who was celebrating the footy a bit prematurely. I mean honestly we got a minor bloody nose and a really huge hassle out of the deal but when it comes down to it he's the one with the welt on his face, the cigarette in his ear and the torn shirt so he got the worst of it. Plus I think his friend pissed his pants.

― Allyzay, Friday, 28 May 2004 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Oooh the aural cig move! Ouchie!

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Madam, I implore thee not to try it

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:51 (twenty-two years ago)

i think one of the things about london (and to a certain extent, other cities in the uk), is that the 'bad bits' and the not bad bits are intermingled. you can be in some leafy pretty street and it backs onto an estate which is partially derelict and partially filled with crackheads, then on the other side some more pretty streets.

so, it kind of spills into one.

clapham can be kind of bad for crime, its a middle class and leafy area, after dark there are lots of pretty streets with trees giving almost complete darkness, and no people around. it backs onto brixton.

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF, BITCHES?!?!?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

she lived in fitzrovia

― Ed (dali), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Tracer's neighbourhood is sketchy because of the streetwalkers and kerb-crawlers and the notices everywhere saying that because of the hookers and johns it's wise to keep an eye on your surroundings.

There is, however, a small knot of junkie activity near Tavistock Place between Russell Square and King's Cross - which might be where you guys were - although I've never had any trouble ever in London so I'd have to say yours was a random thing.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The whole fight is a lot funnier when you also know that the two guys kind of slightly resembled gareth (the fighter) and stevem (the confused friend) with less hair. INDIE DANCE STREET TOUGHS RUMBLE.

xpost PERHAPS IT WAS CHARLTON LIDO, GARETH'S ALTER EGO YEAH???

― Allyzay, Friday, 28 May 2004 14:54 (twenty-two years ago)

yeh the lido is correct, this is true of places like Ladbroke Grove, De Beauvoir and Islington, Camden, even West Kensington (bit between Shepherds Bush and Olympia)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 14:56 (twenty-two years ago)

ILX Merkins currently living in Britain - 6 at least
ILX Brits currently living in America - 0

SOBS THE SOB OF A FORGOTTEN MAN

Although thanks to stevem, Simon Reynolds and I both share a "demographic". Which is nice.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:18 (twenty-two years ago)

I love it that Jon has been to Norwich. Gygax has been to Uxbridge!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

To be honest, England has started to look very funny from the outside in. I've been watching BBC News and the occasional football match and it suddenly seems very far away and different. If I make it back this summer for a visit, I'll probably freak out.

Although I've been to America several times and lived here for short periods before this one, some people's attitude towards me has been quite striking, more curiosity than anything else, especially some people who may have never left the US. Coming from London, I am so used to hearing different accents that it never occurred to me that even some big cities in the US can be quite homogenous and unused to outsiders. Most people in the Bay Area seem surprised that a "foreigner" would choose to live here of all places.

Someone mentioned British attitudes towards America upthread and I have to agree that some of these are just as contemptible. My brother sent me one of those middlebrow Bryson-esque travel books on America, presumably because he thought I could relate to it, but reading the back cover made me sick, all of it's descriptions of a "fast food nation", Quayle/Bush anecdotes (yeah, we get it already), and references to a country that has "daytime parking 24hrs". Some of my (more distant) friends are even too afraid to visit because they think there are "a lot of murders" in America. And yeah, Schwarzenegger is my governor, how wacky and American.

That said, I actually think a SF indie-hipster crowd somehow trumps a London indie-hipster crown in terms of forced ennui and cliquey-ness, which is quite an achievement. ;)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to hear more about Jon's adventure in Norwich.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I like London water!!!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Today it is foggy here. Aaaaaaah, fog.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:33 (twenty-two years ago)

US Gives Up Trying To Impress England

― Allyzay, Friday, 28 May 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i used to stay in shepherd's bush, and i had no idea that some of it is considered a rough area as it doesn't look particularly threatening. i brought some food back to the house from a roti shop on uxbridge rd., and my friend started screaming that several people had been shot there recently. oops.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Brits wouldn't last a minute in my hood (and it's way better than it was before I moved my white yuppie honquistador ass in).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I would last a minute there.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:52 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: Tupac's old hood reclaimed by faggy Britisher vs. Biggie's old hood reclaimed by faggy Kentuckian

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Lauren there was a shooting in the Nando's on Uxbridge Road last year, tho that could've happened in any Nando's (not that Nando's is the kind of place you expect people to get shot in anyway), but that Western part of the Bush always struck me as the least savoury, esp. north of Uxbridge Road towards QPR's stadium - just lots of old project housing etc. I was actually thinking of that weird never never land between the Green and Olympia (Brook Green etc.) which is mostly lush and populated by toffs but turn a corner and there's an odd estate with the odd pikey ambling around (I did stumble across a fantastic street party for the local community round this way once tho), v odd.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:56 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.tomas-katz.com/images/HappyEater.jpg

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/pop/kfc1.jpg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Why is everyone so interested/fascinated by my Norwich trip.

I was there visiting a friend at UEA. We got drunk a lot and a Finnish student kept on trying to fuck my friend. The single dorm rooms in their suite were small, but they had a private lav which is fuckin' weird as fuck.

We went on a boat trip on some inland waterway with all these pubs along the side. Fun! A German exchange student told me that he likes Americans better than Brits and that Americans/Krauts are more similar. He was big into Robotech.

Lots of the British kids I met were kinda mental. I met a nice adult student type from South Africa who lived with my friend.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I was there visiting a friend at UEA.

Hahaha! When were you there, Jon? That's where I went to college. Finnish students practically run that place. And Americans.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

"odd pikey ambling around" makes the threat of violence sound quaint.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 28 May 2004 15:59 (twenty-two years ago)

sounds like British chippie shops need to invest in some bulletproof glass, and soon.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:00 (twenty-two years ago)

pikeys vs ruffians

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Hope he doesn't mind me re-posting this, but I like it:

"my least favorite london story... staying out in the burbs for a week with a friend's uncle in uxbridge... went out with his cousins to the pub then a club and we're getting our pints on and out talking and some bird accused of faking my american accent

her- oh, it's almost convincing
me- cheers, have another love

granted, my accent is kinda forqued when i'm imbibing (half-southern drawl, half-californian ), but get off it deary!

other than that: classic. esp: the garage for my 24th bday. ah, good times.

-- gygax! (gygax0...), December 12th, 2002."

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"getting our pints on" = classic!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the Uxbridge Road, especially going west.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:04 (twenty-two years ago)

we know dude

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Jel, do you like Perivale?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you know that nice tapas place just off of Ealing high street? I like it there.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

my Mum grew up around there actually (west of SB Green just off Uxbridge Road). but yeh wrt to 'odd pikeys' i can't remember why exactly but i felt kinda apprehensive wandering around some of those streets just because of the randomness of it all.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:10 (twenty-two years ago)

perivale is okay, it's a strangely empty kind of place.

I always sort of want to take visting americans on a trip down the Uxbridge Road, coz you know central and north London don't represent.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I think it was spring 2002.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Aaah, well after my time.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

When I was visiting London to stay with my old girlfriend (as you can see on a couple of threads if you dig up the archives), I was at her flat in New Cross, which allegedly was sketchy -- and indeed one time she told me about the murder right around the corner from her place on the street, which did have me worried. But honestly I never felt unsafe or worried while I was there, seemed pretty casual and low key. Similarly Martin's old place was in East Ham and supposedly that has a reputation of some sort, but that seems to be motivated by racism more than anything else due to the large Indian population there. So I dunno.

Yeah, the water in London is a bit off, I recall. The candy is definitely great, though, and all y'all are grand folks. I'll be back again for a visit soonish, hopefully next year as part of a trip to Italy and maybe Russia.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I know the Tapas place you mean, on the same street as that old fashioned electronics shop.

(big Ealing news, the cinema is going to go from 3 screens to 16!!!!)

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i like Perivale tube station's nice curvy entrance - the line is elevated too so you get a nice view of Horsenden Hill, Heathrow planes and Giant Nick Faldo

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I like to think that the roughest Brit neighborhoods are like Powis Square in this movie, complete with poofster rockstars and boyish French girls:

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:16 (twenty-two years ago)

look, i'll kick your ass, alright

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned has just signed him self up for Jel's Grand Uxbridge Road Tour!

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Woo!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hanger Lane = fear.

Let's take him, Steve.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Hstencil should come on the tour soon, we'll go the Redback.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:19 (twenty-two years ago)

as usual, I have no idea what you're talking about (or what I'm talking about too).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 28 May 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Where is Napoli?

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 28 May 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 17:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Do you mean Naples or am I missing something?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Friday, 28 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I picked up Absolute Beginners in an Oxfam, and the main character lived in Napoli, which seemed to be near Bayswater.

― Carey (Carey), Friday, 28 May 2004 17:59 (twenty-two years ago)

veda Napoli e muoia

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 28 May 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Fremme neppa vennette.

― NA (Nick A.), Friday, 28 May 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's the condensed version of a conversation I had in a Portsmouth pub some long time ago:

"The thing I don't understand about America is the terrible racism over there ...... OUR main problem is the Pakis!"

― briania (briania), Friday, 28 May 2004 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

two weeks pass...

because jons thread, where he was addressing dislike of england, got locked. possibly because there was this thread that addresses the same concenrns.

jon, the floor is yours

― charltonlido (gareth), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Interesting reason why Brit music suxxxxx here: http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0348/031126_music_punk.php (as linked to from here: Dave Q on the Rhino punk box)

In England, the walls are made out of paper, which is why its singers are lacking in projection skills and presence (i.e., wusses). The oft-told story of Morrissey whispering his demo vocals under a bedsheet before presenting them to Johnny Marr indicates one reason for the Smiths' enormous identification-related popularity in their home country: You can't actually "practice" singing?let alone screeching or hollering?anywhere. As for drumming, forget it; nobody has a garage, and the neighborhood noise fascists in London bear out everything Kurt Cobain said about the English. That's why English youth so unanimously took to techno. Even the "bangin'" sounds of the Prodigy could easily be developed with the volume set low?or better yet, on headphones.

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Gygax! on these dudes watching the Bolt:
ihttp://www.meirion.lewis.btinternet.co.uk/pics/lb2.jpg

that audience looks like they're watching sigur ros or something.
-- gygax! (gygax0...) (webmail), June 5th, 2004 6:33 PM. (gygax!) (link)

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

err these dudes

http://www.meirion.lewis.btinternet.co.uk/pics/lb2.jpg

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

why its singers are lacking in projection skills and presence (i.e., wusses)

i assume this just means 'these days' cos i mean wot abaht yer Lemmy, Brucie and the like? but remember that Embrace song where he tried to shout? yargh

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

"Embrace UK", please.

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Why can't England produce competent drummers?

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

If current US bands were any more interesting or competent at this point this argument would hold more weight.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Embrace UK", please.

Fuck U(K)

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

England has better rappers.

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:11 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.yoitsren.com/noisenomads3.jpg

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

McLusky

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Rhode Island have gangs?

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I went to high school with member of Asian Gangs.

― Jon in R'lyeh (ex machina), Monday, 14 June 2004 19:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Rhode Island have gangs?

RI has mobs. (watch your family guy)

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I only have season 1!

― AdamL :') (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 June 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...

do you use 'european' to denote british, like is there a conflation of brits with other european nations, when this happens? or is it 2 separate things?

do you think the november elections will change anti-european feeling in america either way?

― charlton lido (gareth), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

do you think the november elections will change anti-european feeling in america either way?

If Bush wins, I suspect that he'll continue to promote his "who cares what the rest of the world thinks" view.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

the possibility (happened before) that not even the majority of the people he governs may agree being the real sickener

― the neurotic awakening of s (blueski), Tuesday, 27 July 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

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