lewd and lascivious battery: Teacher charged with having sex with 14-year-old student

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http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/US/South/06/29/teacher.sex.ap/vert.teacher.ap.jpg

TAMPA, Florida (AP) -- A 23-year-old middle-school teacher was charged with having sex with a 14-year-old student in a classroom, at her apartment and, once, in a vehicle while the teen's 15-year-old cousin drove.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/06/29/teacher.sex.ap/index.html

I realize it's a double standard, but I don't get as outraged when the "victim" is a boy and the perp looks like this teacher. I suppose I should. Obv., the woman is unhinged and a nut. If she'd do this, what else would she do. But I don't think the boy will be scarred for life.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

the young lad - got an education ! with extra lessons

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Unless she bit his cock off.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

And why is that? Is it the perceived notion being "wor you lucky lad" ?

(xpost, guess so)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

His ego might be so big he's scarred for a few years.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, I never knew Miss MacKenzie was so hott!

― My New Identity (kate), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

im not sure how i feel about this.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Dan Savage to thread.

― Vic Fluro, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I imagine that having people find out about this did more harm than the actual act. Still, she's a nut.

― ¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿ (ex , Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Florida further solidifies its grip on the title of Capital of Weird.

― rasheed wallace (rasheed wallace), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

i wonder if she offered to buy him a he-man figure he got anal.

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

What you mean like saying "it's called Masters of the Universe you bitch! He-Man's the main protagonist - duhh!"

― de, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

This boy was almost certainly the happiest person in the world for quite some time.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:28 (twenty-one years ago)

.. and then?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Look, it's the same if it had been a girl, can't you see? A 14 year old girl having sex with her teacher, the happiest girl in the school. Until the shit hits the fan. Then?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Nice to see the double standard in full effect there chaps. Keep up the good work etc.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Then he was told by the police that he couldn't have sex with her any more.

In what possible context is the 14 year old pissed off by this? Has he been expelled? Perhaps he's being forced to have counselling or something.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe this sort of thing isn't always the end of the world. 14-year-olds want sex w/ each other after all.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

perhaps he's been forced to be the kid that had sex with his teacher. OK so he's probably been protected off CNN, but the news will be public domain in his school/town etc.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The double standard is acknowledged in the original question. The question is, why is there a double standard. Is it actually different when the genders are switched?

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Because girls don't like sex so therefore if a girl ever has sex she must either be a slut or a virgin and either way she has been taken advantage of by wicked evil men.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahahahaha

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, and most of the blokes on here are going "wor she's hot" and all that.

The basic scenario is that the teacher is abusing her position to do this with a child of her choosing. My opinion is that there is actually no difference. But people are more likely to think that a girl has had her innocence removed while a boy has been made a man.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think it IS actually different, at core. When it comes down to it, someone in a position of responsibility has abused that position, and a 14 year old has shagged a teacher. It might not be the end of the world, but it's not a good thing either. The only reason the it's seen as different when the genders are reversed is because we live in a patriarchy, natch.

Or what Nick says.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, is it a case of, when a man pressures a girl for sex, she has limited power based on her minority and the unequal powerdistribution--so it's (statutory) rape.(?) As it should be, I think. But with a boy and a woman, does the law say, boys and girls must be treated equally under the law, therefore, it's statutory rape when the minor is a boy, or is it because it's equally damaging in reality?

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

She looks a lot like my high school history teacher. The one that my friend's brother was sleeping with when I was in her class.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get you, surely the limited power applies in both situations?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there's an unspoken understanding that a 14 year old boy is more liekly to be able to physically defend himself from a predatory female attacker than a 14 year old girl from a male attacker. Therefore the spectre of force comes into it when a girl is involved in a way that it simply doesn't when it's a boy.

Also, it's a truism that EVERY 14 YEAR OLD BOY IN THE WORLD is perpetually horny. There is quite literally nothing they would want more than sex with a hott teacher. I'm not in a position to say if the same's true for girls.

(xx-post)

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

She is sort of hot in a Sweet Valley Twins sort of way (she does have a twin, right?).

And yeah, it is equally damaging, though not in the same way. It's still an authority figure taking advantage. What about same-sex student-teacher liaisons?

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, the person with the position of responsibilty has abused it, no doubt about it. But the sexual nature of the abuse is the real question here. If they had been hanging out drinking beer together, that would have been both illegal and an abuse of the position, but it wouldn't have been rape. My question is about the admittedly double standard of the sexual relationships.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Gays are gross therefore if gays have sex it must be gross.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Only have sex if u r married.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Mark, the law has nothing to do with physical defence, it's there to prevent emotional coercion.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

lewd & lascivious question: do you think the kid was popular or wierd?

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Popular.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Presumably it comes down the the individual. A mature and confident 14-year-old, exposed to sex and everything about it through friends, media, family, whatever, may be perfectly able to cope with this kind of sexual encounter. And vice versa.

x-post to Ricky - yes, I agree, but I was trying to demonstrate why there are double standards. On an absolute level, force or the threat of it is a far bigger issue in the man/girl pairing than the other way round, which obv affects the emotional coercion aspect too.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

As it's statutory rape, the position regarding 'consent' doesn't arise. Which is misleading in a way, as the idea that a child (perjorative term I know, but as opposed to the teacher) might 'fancy it a bit' could well apply either sex way around.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

if you shake hands with a gay, you get teh hiv!!!!!

― ¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿ (ex , Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The teen told investigators that he and Lafave got to know each other during a class trip last month

= unpopular

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Taking his age out of the equation for a sec, a teacher shagging a student is totally against the rules, full stop.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

A kid I was at school w/ had a pretty intense same sex liason w/a physics teacher. He even admitted such in his "friends reunited" spiel, but he changed it pretty quickly, dang. In retrospec, I feel pretty jealous, but jealous of the phys teacher b/c my ex school friend was hawt & somewhat closteted at the time. If only I'd known!!

― P*s*m*n* (Pashmina), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

There is quite literally nothing they would want more than sex with a hott teacher.

Dude I'm in high school and I'm weirded out by the thought of having sex with any of my teachers, even the "hott" ones.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I was totally not ready for sex at 14.

Jon will u shake my hand plz k thx bye.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

As it's statutory rape, the position regarding 'consent' doesn't arise. True. But in practical terms, it's more difficult to force a boy or a man to have (heterosexual) sex when he doesn't want to than it is a girl or a woman.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Not if he's a horny 13 year old.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Fair dos, Curtis. There's also the question of how one would react if the fantasy ever became a possibility. I certainly never got there.

x-post, again - RickyT and Skottie have just summed up what I'm trying to say.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

A teacher at my high school was allowed to quit, quietly, for sleeping with an 11th grader

― ¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿ (ex , Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

In Marion County, authorities say
Lafave had sex with the student in the
back of her sport utility vehicle while
the cousin drove them around the
Ocala area.

ewwwwww

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

we were talking about this, once.

crossposts

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but what if they *want* it? It's still illegal/wrong.

A 14 year old horny boy = world to be protected from him
A 14 year old horny girl = girl needs to be protected from world.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't agree with that, mark.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Not really Mark. I was trying to point out that your average pubertal boy could be totally not into having sex with the teacher emotionally, yet still be physically capable of doing so.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Taking his age out of the equation for a sec, a teacher shagging a student is totally against the rules, full stop.
-- Madchen Well, I happen to agree with you. This is the basis of most sexual harrassment law. Unequal distribution of power means that an informed consent can never occur. Also it creates an atmosphere of abuse that is destructive for everyone. In this case, however, I was just musing about the different emotional reaction I'd have had to this story if the genders were reversed.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, 13/14 yr-old boys = random, spontaneous, horribly embarrassing boners.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

If you are talking about the equation, no I don't agree with it either (It was somewhat unclear).

I was more meaning, that's the perception.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

difference.

if girl did it all kids in her school will tease her and call her slut

if boy did it omg he becomes the hero of the school

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but then suddenly the boy finds none of the girls want to know.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't agree with that either. the boy will be a pariah (if he wasn't already) without even the saintliness of victimhood about him. this is shitty all around.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

and conversely, girl finds out *all* the boys want to know. For one time, each.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Again, age out of it, you could get all kinds of yuck going on - grades being hiked up for the shagging student, or hiked down if the student decides he/she decides they don't want it any more and pisses off teacher, or potential for other blackmail by/against either individual.

― Madchen (Madchen), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i bet the boy was a right twat as well - probably the school bully or something. can you imagine if she'd gone for the nerdlinger? unlikely!

when i was 14 all i ever thought about was sex with female classmates and Jet out of Gladiators - i guess cos i never had any hot teachers.

― A.D.I.D.A.S.W.H.T. (blueski), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that if the boy weren't a pariah already--sounds like he might have been a geek--his status will definitely change for the worse. For better or worse, this is a kind of right of passage that removes him from his peers. Holding hands with a girl at the dance is going to be pretty dull after his experiences with that teacher (unless the girl is a chearleader, of course). His expectations will have been changed.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

This issue has been dealt with on several episodes of "Law and Order" - which is my personal barometer of all legal issues.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Well that's what I meant above. (xpost Scotti) He's going to be perceived to be wanting sex. "You are not going out with that boy" all around town mothers of girls say...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"You are not going out with that boy" all around town mothers of girls say...

exactly i.e. all girls will now want to have sex with you to rebel against mother

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

omg i wish i shagged my teacher

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What is it with English teachers? I only had a few attractive teachers in school, but every last one taught English.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

////throwing away decorum//// The guy pictured next to the offending teacher SO WANTS TO HIT THAT STUFF

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

you mean the guy in the middle or the "escort"?

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I meant the escort, but that guy in the middle is totally shouting out "look, there she is! She's one!"

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops, "she's the one!"

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Would you date a woman who had an affair with a 14 yr old?

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

only if I was 12

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i might not tell my friends about it

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

No, she's an unhinged psycho.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe if it's a 14 yr old girl

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:24 (twenty-one years ago)

omg i'm crass today.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"So, uh, not that it matters, but, uh, was I as good as that little kid you went to jail for fucking?"

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

The only way the boy will lose face is through jealousy. Seriously, he will have THE best rep for this. She's hott!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

if only the kid had bought her a dress as well...

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

she's way hot, but no way! fuck a adult ethics, this violates all the feudal sex laws of junior high. step outside the game and you're done. this kid will never be right again, unless he moves.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

This happened with a good friend of mine, age 15, when we were in junior high. He had a sexual relationship with one of the female teachers, and it was primarily at his instigation. The affair never became public knowledge, somehow, and neither party seemed the worse for it. As far as I know.

― briania (briania), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post to g---f - That's baffling. Pure envy. Boy who did what every single other boy wanted to do.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

who wants to be the reality paled in comparison to the fantasy though? and such will become all too clear during the trial.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't there another woman a few years back who did this?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

there was Letourneau and also a Canadian in England.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1813575.stm

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Right: Mary Kay LeTourneau

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

that BBC link is an interview with the Cdn teacher (who was acquitted, mind you) and very revealing of her own frame of mind.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

pure envy!!

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

My teachers were all extras from the Dark Crystal! I would have been stoked to be in here class... but alas, I doubt she would have jumped my nerdy, pimply, joy-division-shirt-wearing bones.

― andy, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

What's weird about the CNN piece is how ambiguous the lead paragraph is gender-wise; you could totally read the "her apartment" as being the STUDENT'S apartment -- in fact, when I first read it, that's what I thought:

" A 23-year-old middle-school teacher was charged with having sex with a 14-year-old student in a classroom, at her apartment and, once, in a vehicle while the teen's 15-year-old cousin drove."

― chuck, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

one of my high school english teachers (who was really quite a cool lady) took out this ad in our senior yearbook. Teacher is on the left, student on the right.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

the cousin is the secret hero of the story. a year older and still all he gets is the chauffer role while cuz rails the hot teacher in the backseat. poor fucker.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

He probably had to wipe down the seat afterward too.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

But in practical terms, it's more difficult to force a boy or a man to have (heterosexual) sex when he doesn't want to than it is a girl or a woman.

Yes, but the issue of force is not why statutory rape is rape.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Based on what she's wearing, I'd say she's GUILTY! Always wear a suit when you have anything to do with courts.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

she's an english teacher spencer!

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

that uh quite a sweater ahem.

― c-l-m (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

The gender ambiguity of the first paragraph is really striking - my first assumption, too, was that it was a male teacher and female student, until I got further into the article. Even though I've seen at least one of those statutory-rape-by-woman episodes of Law&Order. Don't know whether it's because I generally assume that in a large-age-gap relationship the man will be the elder, or that I subconsciously believe men more likely to be inappropriately lecherous.

There's few things that I think are more unpleasant than statutory rape in a school context, though: as far as abuses of power go, it's up there with the worst.

― cis (cis), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, but the issue of force is not why statutory rape is rape. True, as I've been saying, I agree with you. And still, I don't think the hundreds of juries over the last 1,000 years or so who were ruling on statutory rape cases were worried about a boy/woman combination. I'm speaking from total ignorance here, but I bet stat-rape cases with a teenaged boy and an adult woman weren't actually prosecuted until the last 50 years maybe. If that. Just based on this double standard--we'd call it now--or different standard. I'm not arguing against it, she's a loony and potentially dangerous--just observing.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

How is the law considering "statutory rape" defined? In Finland, I think, such a case wouldn't be brought into court unless the kid's parents pressed charges, and I'm pretty sure many parents wouldn't do that if the sex was consentual. It's still an abuse of power, obviously, and the teacher should be reprimanded by the school, but I'm not certain the court is the best place to deal with such cases. Perhaps some sort of private conciliation would be better?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe private conciliation is the root of this problem.

― Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

haha private reconciliation?!? tuomas your finn reasonableness has no power on these frothy shores

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, I don't know the English term for it, but what I meant is sort of procedure where the parties concerned, with the proper authorities, try to privately arbitrate a settlement, instead of going to court. It can be used, in Finland at least, if the crime is considered a minor one, and/or if going to court isn't considered the best solution.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

X-post.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

in the usa going to court is always the best solution 'cause you might get MONEY

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Statutory rape exists when one of the parties is under the legal age of consent, which varies from state to state. As has been pointed out above, in these cases, the law presumes that the minor doesn't have the "ability" to consent, therefore stat rape exists. The penalties are nowhere as severe as for aggravated rape, etc. when there is violence, non-consent, etc.

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

A handy chart to make sure you're okay... the Maltese are precocious!

― andy, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

explain me that ad, teeny

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The Finnish law has been revised since that chart was last updated. The age of consent is 15 now, and I think it's 15 for gay sex too.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't remember Paul saying, "You'll be great!" in Philippians, but maybe she's quoting the Revised Standard version.

― Ernest P. (ernestp), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

slocki: oh, just my friend there and my teacher were having an affair, and my teacher put a mushy best wishes ad in the yearbook for her.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

(it was just a total wtf moment in my life, it's not like we were in a city or something, it was this weird hyper-mormon/catholic ranching outpost/truckstop town I lived in, it was so not cool to be gay, yet somehow everyone overlooked this little thing they had.)

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The Malta data is interesting, although I suspect it's out of date too. With EU membership, there would have been some harmonization with the other member states on the issue. But notice the distinction in re: the original question. If the age of consent for males is 12, they're basically saying that (nearly) any sexually functioning male is old enough to (1) want it, (2) know what it means to want it (3) not be seriously damaged by it if it's consensual. For women, on the other hand, 18 yrs. old is the first time they're able to satisfy these conditions. So again the question, not is there a double standard, but is there any justification for these different standards?

― Skottie, Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

that was the impression i got teeny. wow, that is crazy.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I've said on many threads how I feel about this. double standards (or perception thereof) be damned, I hope she gets locked up with the maximum sentence possible.

As far as being forced, many of my male colleagues have told me of sexual advances female students have made at them which then scared the shit out of them. They are very careful about touching kids. Even when a kid comes up to hug them they'll stand side-to-side for a shoulder-pat thing to avoid breast-contact. obv. this is a big area of concern for educators. the concern being an innocent person might do or say something that can be misperceived. this woman must be completely nuts if she even thought she could get away with this.

I had several male students who constantly flirted and made sexual comments to me. A couple would claim openly and frequently they were in love with me, stop by my room to yell that in, and say when they were 18 they were coming back to date me. One of those students, the first year I had him, I had removed from my room due to "sexual harrassment". His comments were completely out of line and made it hard for me to teach his class.

I always tried to dress a little dumpy so as not to encourage any of this. Still creepy.

goddammit, my self-banishment from ILX is not working. I've been having my roommate watch my soap for me and just fill me in so I could get other stuff done in the afternoons. Maybe I should ask her to do the same here?

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Wednesday, 30 June 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

HOLY SHIT. THAT IS MY JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL!!!!!

― Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Thursday, 1 July 2004 01:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, now you'll have something to tell the grandkids

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 1 July 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't believe some of you think this woman is hot. Okay, nice rack and blonde and all, but come on: she looks like Skeletor. Secondly, anyone with their hair pulled back that tight has *got* to have a constant headache, and how insane do you have to be to want a constant headache? I'm not particularly happy about the "you can't trust them tattooed women" backlash that might accompany a story like this, but still....

As far as the statutory rape of a horny 14 year-old boy goes, all I can say is that there's a *BIG* difference between masturbating to fantasies about your teacher and actually getting fucked by your teacher.

― Evanston Wade (EWW), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Fucking his teacher had no ill effects on the future relationships of one Pacey Witter, and that's all I have to know.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry, I have a hard time seeing this as some huge horrible thing. Yes, the teacher should obviously be fired, because she broke a clear and explicit rule and probably needs therapy and at the very least should be in a career where she's not dealing with adolescents. But for christ's sake, this woman doesn't need to be in prison. And yes, I would feel the same way if the genders were reversed, provided it was a similarly consensual situation. I know the statutory rape laws are there for a reason, and you have to set the age of consent somewhere, and 14 is certainly under what we're currently comfortable with as an age of consent (although it's moved around a lot historically and culturally), but there's a huge qualitative difference between having consensual sex with a 14-year-old and, say, pedophilia or rape.

I knew a 16-year-old girl in my high school whose boyfriend was 25, which is the same age range we're talking about here. He wasn't a teacher at the school, but he still was technically guilty of statutory rape if anyone had bothered to press the issue. Fortunately, no one did, they were together for a year and broke and have both gone on to live much happier lives than they would have if somehow their relationship had turned into a huge legal proceeding. I also had a friend in college who lost her virginity on a cruise ship when she was 14 to a 23-year-old man she met on board. She thought it was fun, a romantic adolescent fling. I don't see how anybody would have been helped by the guy going to prison or being labeled a sex offender.

I agree there's a problem when it's a teacher, and she shouldn't have that job. But that's as far as I'm willing to go with the condemnation. Our jails are plenty crowded enough.

― spittle (spittle), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

latest few savage love columns to thread.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Van Halen are probably feeling pretty sheepish right now.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

did anyone read that judith levine book?

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 1 July 2004 03:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, what spittle said.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 1 July 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't understand why it's clear that this woman is 'unhinged' or crazy. We know next-to-nothing about her or her situation.

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 1 July 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Positions of power can be abused. If the 14-year-old boy in question went to some sort of authority over this issue, then there is probably an instance of abuse of power here.

If, as some people have suggested, this kid was the happiest guy in town, why are charges being pressed? If he really was so happy with the situation, then surely he'd keep it to himself (the ramifications of exposure being completely obvious).

― Andrew (enneff), Thursday, 1 July 2004 08:16 (twenty-one years ago)

True. She's probably just a nympho.

xpost You can't keep something like that to yourself! If he was happy with the situation, he'd be DYING to tell his friends and this desire to boast would outweigh the fear of being found out.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 1 July 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Spittle OTM.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 1 July 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

andrew have you heard the story about the guy who was shipwrecked on an island with the most beautiful girl in the world?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

No, carry on.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 1 July 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe it isn't necessary for her to be in prison for what has happened, but - this is more than a case of statutory rape. It's more than just her breaking a "clear and explicit rule", too: if she is guilty, and if the statement that "she was attracted to him because having sex with him was not allowed" and then acted upon this attraction is true, then she was knowingly and wilfully breaking a law designed for the protection of the children she teaches and is responsible for. It doesn't matter if neither of them are emotionally harmed by the relationship, if the teacher doesn't show overt favouritism (or, if the relationship were broken off, doesn't artificially harm the learning environment of the pupil). It still cannot and must not happen.

Being attracted? Fine. Being attracted because the pupil is forbidden? Perfectly fine. Acting on that attraction while the pupil is under your care? Wrong.

(but, then, I think teacher-student relationships at any age are highly, highly dubious. as are lecturer-TA relationships. and CO-subordinate relationships in a chain-of-command situation.)

xpost: do tell, Ken.

― cis (cis), Thursday, 1 July 2004 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

A young single guy on a cruise ship is having the time
of his life. On the second day of the cruise, the ship
slams into an iceberg and begins to sink. Passengers
around him are screaming, flailing, and drowning, but
our guy manages to grab on to a piece of driftwood and,
using every last ounce of strength, swims a few miles
through the shark-infested sea to a remote island.

Sprawled on the shore nearly passed out from exhaustion,
he turns his head and sees a woman lying near him, who
had also managed to survive this far, but she was
unconscious and barely breathing. He makes his way to
her, and with some mouth-to-mouth assistance he manages
to get her breathing and conscious again. She looks up
at him, wide-eyed and grateful and says, "My God, you
saved my life!" He suddenly realizes the woman is
Natalie Porter!

Days and weeks go by. Natalie and our guy are living on
the island together. They've set up a hut, there's
fruit on the trees, and they're in heaven. Natalie's
fallen madly in love with our man, and they're making
passionate love morning, noon and night. True Heaven
on earth in the man's eyes. Alas, one day she notices
he's looking kind of glum.

"What's the matter, sweetheart?" she asks. "We have a
wonderful life together and I'm in love with you."
"Is there something wrong? Is there anything I can do?"

He says, "Actually, Natalie, there is. Would you mind,
putting on my shirt?"
"Sure," she says," if it'll help."
He takes off his shirt and she puts it on. "Now would
you put on my pants?" he asks. "Sure, honey, if it's
really going to make you feel better," she says. "Okay,
would you put on my hat now, and draw a little
mustache on your face?" he asks. "Whatever you want,
sweetie," she says, and does.

Then he says, "Now, would you start walking around the
edge of the island?" She starts walking around the
perimeter of the island. He sets off in the other
direction.

They meet up half way around the island a few minutes
later. He rushes up to her, grabs her by the shoulders,
and says, "Dude! You'll never believe who I'm
sleeping with!"

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

BWAHAHAHA!!!

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 1 July 2004 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Not heared that one before (was expecting other than this)... ray!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 1 July 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

first person to find a picture of a lewd and lascivious AA battery wins a prize.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Your search - sexy duracell - did not match any documents.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Sploogebob Carpants

― Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:22 (twenty-one years ago)

er is natalie porter natalie portman? if not, who is natalie porter, besides being the most beautiful girl in the world?

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

haha that's who i meant.. i had to quickly change it cos it was Cindy Crawford before. erk.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

natalie porter is the testtube cloning blah blah daughter of natalie portman and gail porter

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

weird. i thought was the most beautiful girl in the world

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

hahah i thought

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

bollocks! well, there goes my diane kruger joke

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, you need to do the new ihttp thingie.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 12:37 (twenty-one years ago)

but there's a huge qualitative difference between having consensual sex with a 14-year-old and, say, pedophilia or rape.

I disagree with you spittle. and as for the 16girl 25man relationship you describe, I think that's highly questionable as well. If I knew a student of mine was involved in such a relationship I would certainly report it to authorties.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

In Britain sex with 16 year olds is legal.

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

At that age, kids aren't mature. Not as mature as the adults getting involved in such hypothetical situations. (of course I realize a generalization but it is one that's true more often than not) Most adults wouldnot think of getting involved with teenagers so I belive those that do have suspect motives.

― Ask For Samantha (thatgirl), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

but there's a huge qualitative difference between having consensual sex with a 14-year-old and, say, pedophilia or rape.

I get what you're trying to say here, but the point is that legally there is no such thing as consensual sex with a 14-year-old.

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Legally.

― ¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿¥¤±²£¢Ð¼æ®ª«¶Þ÷³¹ß½Ø×©§¾¿ (ex , Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I said "legally."

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG THIS IS SO FUNNY YOU GUYS ARE SUCH JOKERS THIS IS THE HILARIOUS OMG CRIMES ARE HILARIOUS

― Be Sure To Roop, Roop, Roop !!!! (deangulberry), Thursday, 1 July 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

When did I make a joke?

― martin m. (mushrush), Thursday, 1 July 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought age of concent was 16 mark?

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

martin you have to remember be sure to roop roop roop doesn't really know how humour works

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 1 July 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

AP A middle school teacher was arrested after police said he showed up at school drunk, asked one of his students to fetch cognac, then fondled a student and made a sexual remark to another.
The teacher, Sterling Johnson, was charged with misdemeanor assault and a misdemeanor count of disturbing the peace. The school system will seek to have him fired, said Creg Williams, superintendent of public schools in St. Louis.
Johnson, 55, is an industrial arts teacher at the Pruitt Military Academy, a magnet school in the district.
After arriving at school Monday morning, police said Johnson asked a student to retrieve a bag containing a bottle of cognac from his car. Police then said Johnson rubbed the buttocks and thigh of a 13-year-old girl and directed a sexual remark at another 13-year-old girl.

The principal ordered the teacher, who has been teaching for 22 years, to leave after becoming aware of his behavior, police said. Johnson complied but returned a short time later and was arrested. Williams said a hidden bottle of liquor was found in Johnson's classroom.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 10:41 (twenty years ago)

One of those students, the first year I had him

WHY HAS NOONE PICKED UP ON THIS BEFORE!

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 13:12 (twenty years ago)

Noone did, but sadly no-one listens to the Hermann's Hermits any more, so the message didn't get very far.

― JTS (JTS), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:16 (twenty years ago)

asked one of his students to fetch cognac

Where was a middle school student going to get this?

― JW (ex machina), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:18 (twenty years ago)

I kept mine in my thermos.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:19 (twenty years ago)

hi dere st louis city public schools.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:19 (twenty years ago)

the cognac was in the teacher's car, btw.

― teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:21 (twenty years ago)

STERLING JOHNSON

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:25 (twenty years ago)

STERLING JOHNSON

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:34 (twenty years ago)

i think probably the boy is likely to be far less damaged by this than the adult teacher.

― danny invincible (michael w.), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:37 (twenty years ago)

What are industrial arts?

― Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:40 (twenty years ago)

shop class

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

woodwork?

― Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:51 (twenty years ago)

when I was at school actually we called woodwork "resistant materials" which is even more bizarre.

― Cathy (Cathy), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Hmmm woodwork is involved I think but there's also some basic metal-involved stuff too, I think.

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 18:55 (twenty years ago)

OH, it sounds like wood AND metal were involved.
STERLING JOHNSON

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:04 (twenty years ago)

YES WE SEE

― Allyzay Rofflesbot (allyzay), Wednesday, 24 May 2006 19:06 (twenty years ago)

three years pass...

apparently this kid died

― gfunkboy (history mayne), Thursday, 11 March 2010 15:22 (sixteen years ago)

of high-fiving

― paul shart: mall plop (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 March 2010 15:25 (sixteen years ago)

(that joke was on SNL, btw)

― paul shart: mall plop (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 March 2010 15:25 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

several teacher "sex scandals" breaking in la recently, this one involving female teacher/teen boys. predictable reactions when this happens "i'd hit it" and "these dudes aren't victims" to be found in comment section (and in this thread even).

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/teacher-roosevelt-high-school-arrested.html

― buzza, Thursday, 23 February 2012 23:54 (fourteen years ago)

Disappointed "niiiiiice" isn't among the reactions tbh

― HO WBEAUTIFUL IS THE GENTLYFALLINGBLOOD? (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 23 February 2012 23:57 (fourteen years ago)

two years pass...

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Delaware-English-Teacher-Sex-257004511.html

find this sad more than anything else. i have it on good authority (ok, my gf, who's met her) that the accused was an unconfident, quiet, fairly childlike young lady, unable to establish mutual emotional bonds with adults. i.e. a fucked-up childhood led to a projection of her need for physical affection onto a child. people in this situation need proper mental healthcare and (on the same authority) a friend transplant, not prison.

a 22 year-old paedophile is a weird thing to think about really

like i say, sad. especially for the kid. buzza otm just there

― imago, Tuesday, 29 April 2014 00:02 (twelve years ago)

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