Proof reading

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How does one become a proof reader? How well paid is it? I need a career and figure I might enjoy this.

― alix (alix), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

(I thought this said "Poof reading")

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if there's any money in that?

― alix (alix), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

DO NOT send off for one of those correspondence courses out of the paper! That is all.

Except: I spent one day as an embryo proofreader and it was rubbish. But I do a little freelance proofreading of student dissertations and stuff which is fine.

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"embryo proofreaders" in contravention of all known labor laws surely??

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Mmm, I'd kinda like to know this too, as proofreading business documents has been my favorite part of my last couple of jobs. I've been applying for lots of jobs in publishing so hopefully I can do more proofreading, but no luck yet.

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I wouldn't do anything by correspondance. I know nothing about how I would get into this.

― alix (alix), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Rate: 30p per programme minute if you work for us and live in Romania. I can't really comment further than that. If it's the sort of thing you find yourself doing automatically to everything you read (I do), it's probably worth trying to get paid for it.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 27 September 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I am a big pedant. I think the problem lies with getting trained properly. Is Peckham in Romania?

― alix (alix), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Peckham is not in Romania. This is the sort of thing you would need to spot.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Shit. I thought the 36 bus went through there?

― alix (alix), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

you can take a proofreading/manuscript editing extension course. get the chicago manual of style (if you're in the usa) and study it very closely.

then advertise at a university to proofread students' papers. do that for a while.

then you can send around a resume to various newspapers etc. and take their proofreading tests.

if you get a job or freelance work with a paper for a while, you can move on to book proofreading (which is almost always freelance).

it doesn't really pay that well. maybe 16 bucks an hour? 18? it depends on how good you are. at the beginning it'll be less than that.

some corporate proofreading is being outsourced to india!

madness.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

It is actually the India just south of Penge. The 227 goes there.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

also: "proof reading"--close up word space. (the correct word is "proofreading.")

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

a 36 bus does. Just not that one.

You'll need to know all the proofreaders' marks.

http://www.m-w.com/mw/table/proofrea.htm

the fact that "proofreaders' marks" returned 1,830 results in google goes some way to explain why the courses Archel mentions are a waste of your time.

― MarkH (MarkH), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

(I actually have a very boring story about property derivatives sitting here waiting to be proofread. I don't understand it AT ALL and was going to post it here but decided that getting ILE to do my job for me would be unprofessional and wrong and I don't want the phrase 'u r all gay' appearing on my website)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Memorize the Chicago Manual of Style. I spent a summer as a proofreader at a publisher and this was the most-used tome in the building.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

The missus swears by Strunk & White (which is a rather more modest book in its scope than the Chicago) but I can't think of the UK equivalent. I'm sure there's something in the office.

(The brand of proofreading I do and I have others do is probably a rather different [and more straightforward] discipline than the sort you'd do as a pro. Generally, Word documents with Track Changes turned on rather than all that fancy marking. As subtitle translation, it has its own set of stylistic requirements which carry as much weight as grammatical concerns.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

How does one become a proof reader? How well paid is it? I need a career and figure I might enjoy this.

Legal and financial proofreading typically pay better than publishing. You might wanna take a quickie course to familiarize yourself with EDGAR, blacklining, formatting of legal documents. Definitely learn all the proofreading marks. Then add the course/your skills to a resume and hit some temp agencies -- there are some that specialize in legal staffing but they get clients in finance and advertising as well.

There isn't that much work to go around, though. That's what they don't tell you.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I *borrowed* one of those course, and I don't think they're a waste of time. Mind you, I didn't finish it because, what with it being borrowed and all, the owner had already put all the funny little squiggles in the right places.

I swear by:

The Oxford Guide to Style
The New Fowler's Modern English Usage
The Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors
The Economist Style Guide
Markelby's Zero Tolerance Guide to Punctuation
The Economist Pocket World in Figures 2004
A Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage
Some Normal Dictionaries
A Load of Bilingual Shit

I found a mistake in '1984' the other day, so even Penguin K-Classic reprints get checked by effing computers these days.

I would be interested in getting some proofreading work. Or even some proofpudding work. So keep tossing out tips.

Matt, remind me to ask you what you do one day.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

When I got a book published, I was sent the proofs to reread and discovered a whole lot of errors that I know that I hadn't made. I finally found out that although I gave them an electronic copy of the MS, they nonetheless had the whole thing retyped for the typeset. I was amazed that they still did this in this day and age, but a friend of mine has also recently had a book published, and he came across exactly the same problem. I don't know how prevalent this is in publishing, all I can say is that I know at least two major publishing houses do it.

― Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Alix, I was once a proofreader... .... I made $6.50 an hour.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that was my wage too. And I spent two weeks researching Pre-WWII spellings of town names in Eastern Europe trying to decide which diacritical marks to use because the author did not specify.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Although the proofreading experience always looks good on my CV.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i did proofreading and copyediting for a while. it wasn't something i intended on getting into, but it was a major component of an editorial job i had so it was easy to slip into freelance. i did a lot of proofing for travel books, which might be a good place to look. apparently a lot of people find it unbearably dull and thus there's more work going. for that staring at xeroxes of maps, i made $14/hr for a large travel book publisher.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I was thinking about trying this, but this thread is kind of depressing.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not a fun job, but if you have a way of getting steady assignments then it's alright. at one point, i found it preferable to squeak by with a bunch of random proofreading jobs that i could do sprawled out on the floor by my stereo than to be trapped in an office for 9 hrs a day.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, that does sound good.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

My standard answer:

Become a librarian!

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

You might also try proofing for translators. I am a Dutch-English translator. When a client asks me to proofread or edit someone else's translation or a document a non-native speaker has written in English, I charge about $50 an hour.

Check www.proz.com -- you could post a profile there as a proofreader.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I was proofreading for a local newspaper in Greeley, Colorado - so, yeah, it's no wonder the wage sucked.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

how do those of you that got steady (or not so steady) assignments actually go about getting them?
It's one thing to post a notice on the bulliten boards of local unis and then there's actually trying to establish contacts/connections/reputation, blah blah blah.
i've had a bunch of editorial jobs before so i don't feel this would be too difficult. especially since I see dumbshit mistakes in the nationals one day and get rejection letters from them the next.

― Catty (Catty), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I am on ProZ. I don't get 50 dollars an hour though.

All threads about jobs are depressing because it's an opportunity for people to 'let it all hang out'. Don't let it put you off.

The only exception is music journalism threads. I don't know why, I don't know why.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

My last proofreading job paid $16 an hour, which is pretty much my standard rate these days -- fuck if I'm gonna set foot inside an office for less than that.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Good for you!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i lucked out in terms of finding steady work. i had a friend of a friend who worked for one of the big travel publishers, and she would always complain that it was hard to find people to do the drudge work of map proofing. when i was looking for stuff to do, my friend mentioned me to her and i got like 800 maps of south america delivered to me in two days.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:21 (twenty-one years ago)

strunk and white does not really help you much

you need the chicago manual, absolutely. it's a cool book actually, if you're a grammar nerd like i am.

i took one of the courses and i think it was worth it

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I might just do this.

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Do proffreaders copy edit as well?

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

ahem proofreaders

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

My wife is an Assistant Editor. We have The Chicago Manual Of Style at home. Maybe I will read it!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, but copyediting pays more and is MUCH more intense and time-consuming.

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i was an assistant editor once upon a time

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

What happened???

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i quit.

proofreading will eventually make you blind and insane, copyediting...well it'll take a little longer anyway

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

copy editing is more fun but you get more people yelling at you for destroying their untouchable prose. with proofing you aren't dealing with style issues so much.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, that's what i meant by copyediting being more intense--you're really collaborating w/the author and not just correcting their mistakes

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Mmm, I'd kinda like to know this too, as proofreading business documents has been my favorite part of my last couple of jobs.

that's not very rock and roll nick

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true about proofreading and make you blind, though. I had 20/20 vision when I started, and by the time I quit I was incredibly nearsighted.

― Towelette Pettatucci (Homosexual II), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

But is it noize?

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

the chicago manual really is indispensable -- anyone who writes anything should keep one around.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i had final say in my last copyediting job, which was totally awesome. occasionally some of the cranky old-guard music journalists we solicited notes from would call to yell at me, and i'd be able to tell them to fuck off and read their contract.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

lauren, you are my hero.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah usually the house has final say but you have to be careful not to alienate authors anyway, if you want them writing for you again and/or not spreading bad gossip about your house to other writers

editing is the art of pretend diplomacy

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

who is cripps pink? i can't see login names

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

actually editing is the art of sucking up to authors on the phone while making obscene hand gestures with your coworkers

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

who is cripps pink?
Jody?

― adam. (nordicskilla), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

correct.

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

ji hody

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

jihady

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 27 September 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Beware venturing into this line of work. Before long, you won't be able to wait for your takeout without silently proofing/c.e.-ing the cheapo calendar hanging on the wall. Your highly conditioned but failing eye will spot extra spaces between words on brochures, unbidden and unwanted.

― Formerly Lee G (Formerly Lee G), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i have that disease already

actually i had it *before* i became an editor, which is why i thought i would try being an editor

― amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

in my experience, when proofing you end up getting sucked into doing copy editing, editing and partial rewrites without having any pay increase and you get shit money to begin with. run away would be my advice.

― H (Heruy), Monday, 27 September 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never actually done just proofreading. I think that the jobs you will see advertised will have an emphasis on copyediting, with the exception of law proofreading. How I became a copy editor: I worked at a university press as an editorial assistant, my boss encouraged me to take the NYU publishing course in copyediting and proofreading, which the company paid for. After I left that job, and while I was in graduate school, I l did freelance copyediting for the same company. This was about 5 years ago; at the time the pay was $18/hr to start, I think.

The big bucks comes from the glossy mags: GQ, Details, etc. I think pay $20-$25/hr and more. I make a pitiful amount at the Voice, but there is that intangible glory of working at Cooper Sq., not. I never made it to the glossies, because, in NYC at least, they are really anal and specify that you must have specific magazine experience. Whatever. For book publishing, Chicago is the Bible, for newspapers it tends to be AP, but it depends, the Voice uses Chicago. Words Into Type is another industry standard.

It's great if you know Quark--the exent of my knowledge I learned in a day, but if you could parlay your interest into layout and production you could get paid more money and have a nicer working environment. Also, it would be helpful, as the employers always want to see that you know Quark. Amateurist is so right about going blind: when I was working semi-regularly at the Voice my eyes really hurt.

Other areas to look into are advertising, medical and legal copyediting; I have applied for jobs in all 3 but never got the gig because I didn't have experience in that specific field. The hardest part (as is usually the case) will be getting the first assignment. If it's something that you really want to do, I would suggest volunteering or working on a small newsletter or similar at first. It's funny that I've done this: I am not remotely the copyediting type--as you can see from my posts here. The people who excel in this field Love Rules and think that there is some moral imbalance in the universe if a conjunction is used incorrectly.

Another thing about copyediting: do you like working with text? At the ideas and meaning level, do you like taking crappy text and making it minimally less crappy? This is important. I like to see the words arranged beautifully on paper from the get-go, I don't get off so much on structuring improvements. I get annoyed, rather than challenged by bad copy. I would love to do freelance book editing again, but I've let my contacts go, and for book editing, it's all about the contacts, these aren't jobs that tend to be advertised. If you'd like to take a look to see the kind of jobs that might be out there, check mediabisto.com, journalismjobs.com and the craigslist.

The positives: you are always learning something, today I read about Braniff & Pucci.

― Mary (Mary), Monday, 27 September 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The people who excel in this field Love Rules and think that there is some moral imbalance in the universe if a conjunction is used incorrectly.

This describes a coworker of mine perfectly. I was in awe of her skill, but even our boss (a resolutely anal editor herself) thought she went overboard sometimes.

Mary's right that you stand to learn a lot, although I worked at an academic publisher that put out a lot of warmed-over dissertations and hyper-obscure philosophy, so I didn't have that experience myself. Although I enjoy fact-checking and keeping things standard. I like the aesthetic qualities of text and language--I like a well-arranged, balanced sentence (even if I don't always use them myself when writing on the fly).

It really is all about the contacts for book editing. My boss didn't even bother looking at resumes from copyeditors that she didn't already know.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

P.S. Mary did you finish grad school?

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i got an almost unhealthy level of satisfaction from turning someone's poorly structured, tossed off, and usually incorrect ramblings about girl groups or son house or dizzy gillespie into a concise and informative text.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I did some of this work too. There is a temp agency (EEI Communications) in Alexandria VA that hires for this - you have to take a proofing or copyediting test - the money is pretty good. I made $17/hr temping there and as usual the place that paid for me to proof their boring newsletters had very little work so I got paid to do nothing for several days. I have to get my act together and return the proofing test for this medical software company (user manual) that pays even better but that is bilingual, proofing an English to French translation..

The thing is I really don't care about language rules qua rules, I just care that things look nice and read well.

― daria g (daria g), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

So, I have a diploma in prof writing and editing in which I did a course in editing and proofing plus I also know a reasonable amount about both Quark and Pagemaker (I can layout quick bash-together mag, that sort of thing); I know them on both Mac and PC.

I'd love to work copyediting on a games or PC mag. I don't think I've a chance though and besides, they are all based in Sydney! :( Not fair. But should I look into it? I am about to lose my job anyway and I need a career change.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

ach. "did a course" = "did a subject", I meant.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

The thing is I really don't care about language rules qua rules, I just care that things look nice and read well.

i agree, and this is where i differed from my super-anal coworker. although to be fair the rules are never completely comprehensive and there comes a point where every editor must make a decision based on what will be most coherent and attractive. the chicago manual pretty explicitly acknowledges that many such points will arrive.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't it usually down to consistency + the house style in any case?

I've been reading "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" lately and it is a fabulous and very funny book.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Amst: I got my M.A. in English (from NYU); I am now considering grad school in something more trade-y that will actually prepare me to enter the workforce, I'm thinking of teaching or librarianship at the moment.

How do people feel about dangling modifiers? I have the fear when I see them bc my last supervisor thought they were the work of the Reich, but I really don't think they are that bad, they rarely confuse the jist of the sentence.

― Mary (Mary), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

My problem as a proofreader/copyeditor(/factchecker) was that I didn't care so much about the "rules", I just wanted the text to make sense and be a good read. I'd usually nip anything too rule-violating in the bud, but then again if it made sense and seemed like an "interesting" mistake my first instinct would be to keep it.

I have, in general, preferred things like proofing for ads and brochures than, say, the magazine I used to work for. I enjoy it more when I'm not doing it all the time.

Adam, you should read the CMS, it's a great book. I haven't read the newest edition, though, maybe it's all gone to shit. But I doubt it.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I was hoping this thread would be a compendium of outrageous errors spotted while proofing copy. Working sports at a paper many years ago I spotted an enormous hammer-head on the front cover reading "DESSERT STORM BEGINS" just as we were going to press. At least three people at the news desk had read that page.

― briania (briania), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

It definitely wasn't pudding-related news?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The rule of thumb is that the larger the type, the harder to see the error. I became something of a specialist in catching problems in extra-large or extra-small type.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

sometimes the work is interesting and fun. today i copy-edited promotional materials for a marketing campaign trying to get retailers interested in stocking german snack foods and gourmet gift tins for oktoberfest. i'm all about the pfeffernuesse this holiday season!

― Cripps Pink (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

A friend of mine's given me details on the Australian Society of Editors who do a freelance register - I'm thinking of looking into what I need to join. Even if I just did small jobs for pin money over summer it would tide me over while I look for a new job, or might eveb become work, who knows? I studied this stuff, I might as well use my pedantry.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

see... my english degree isn't so useless after all. to think, i coulda been a philosophy major!

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

pfeffernuesse are those great little ginger biscuits arent they? I think I have some at home.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

There's an ad in this week's paper for a local job here on Martha's Vineyard, proofreading the paper 2 afternoons a week for $12 an hour.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Friday, 1 October 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I could handle a 2 afternoon a week job on Marthas Vineyard =) *books planeflight and steals green card*

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 1 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Today I will bewcome a PROOFREADER.

Yesterday I had an interview - MARKS AND SPARKS! It was like 'The Office'. I prefer PROOFREADING.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 1 October 2004 06:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The lack of workplace recognition for PJM's talents angers me.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 1 October 2004 07:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The idea that PJM and Lixi are both out of work is abhorrent. I think of them both as national treasures. There should be some sort of government stipend at the very least.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 1 October 2004 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

You should have more work, too. Or more money, or something.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 1 October 2004 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)

More work? Jesus, do me a favour. Three consecutive 65hr weeks do not a happy Steady make. More money? Just what 70% of what I was getting for being a bad 28-y-o software developer in uncomfortable trousers would do.

Alba should just have, more.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 1 October 2004 11:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Extra "what" there. On a proofreading thread. Oh, the ironing.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 1 October 2004 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

A comma might have saved you.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Lixi and I once walked across Waterloo Bridge together, in the evening sun. We must have looked like National Treasures then. As long as there was no sound. She was telling me about when her and Starry Sarah drew a massive cock in the sand.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 1 October 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

How is uncomfortable trousers getting on with his career?

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 1 October 2004 16:04 (twenty-one years ago)

amateurist, you mention taking a proofreading course upthread. Did you do this in Chicago? If you did, what class and where?

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't even know where I should look for something like this.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, anyone have any idea what type of institution I should be looking at for a proofreading class? College? Are these usually listed under the journalism program? I am so confused.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

All I can find is some one-day class at the Discovery Center. I am dumb. Of course it doesn't help that googling for Chicago and proofreading class gets you a million "Chicago Manual of Style" references.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Try the big colleges. That's what I am doing hopefully (at Berkeley). They are expensive!

― My Dinner With Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

being paid to read maps? :-O

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

adam, what kind of course titles are you seeing? What programs are they listed under? I AM HAVING DER NO LUCK. Checked at Northwestern and DePaul but was baffled by huge websites.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:17 (twenty-one years ago)

check the back of yr free weekly. really.

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

JBR, I'm not sure who would be advertising in the free weekly. Are you talking about a one-day course, like the Discovery Center thing I mentioned above? Am I just being snobbish in assuming that wouldn't look particularly impressive on my resume?

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

beware: proofreaders have a professional life expectancy of 2-5 years. after that yr gonna have a very, very hard time a) getting laid b) enjoying any sort of social behavior c) wanting to mark up the world with a red pen.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

it won't look unimpressive if you have any other journo background/education on your resume. it'll just look like a supplement to all that. part of your "skill set."

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, well it's certainly a relatively cheap option and might help solidify whether this is something I want to work with more, so maybe that's a good idea.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

also, rather than just saying on your resume that you've taken a proofreading course, put down all the proofreading stuff you know how to do -- that's what makes you hireable.

― pfeffernuesse (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, honestly, all the proofreading I've done has been in the context of a regular office job, checking business docs and publications for errors and so on, and so I probably need something to add to my resume. Plus I'm not sure if I'm interested in finding a proofreading job, or just another office job with more of an emphasis on proofreading. That latter point might be due to lack of self-confidence though, which might also be helped by further education.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

nick, basically yr gonna want to show that you know both the chicago and ap style manuals (go buy them) and also that you know how to index, that you can work with in-house style guides, etc. if these terms mean nada to you, then take the course! if not, put it on yr resume and apply away!

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha! Well

a)I'm married
b)I'm a recluse
c)I already want to do this anyway!

sounds perfect!

― My Dinner With Little Lord Travolta (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for the advice, all, very helpful.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Some schools, like NYU and Radcliffe, have a certificate, post-graduate publishing course that you can do. This is the class I took at NYU: http://www.scps.nyu.edu/departments/course.jsp;jsessionid=2GYHE55W1T5WDAD0SM5SFEQ?courseId=46403

I'm not sure it's worth it to take this kind of expensive class if you have to pay for it yourself, bc haven taken the class doesn't gurantee work coming your way.

― Mary (Mary), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmm, I could probably get my current job to pay for a class, since my job description includes proofreading materials for the company and they say that they pay for relevant classes, but I'm hesitant to do this, because I'd feel an obligation to work her at least for the entire period the class was running and probably for a little while after, which defeats the whole purpose of making my resume look better to get a better job.

― n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 6 October 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

nick there's a course at the university of chicago's extension school, which is right by the wrigley building. it's expensive (maybe $500?) but i found it useful. i don't know if it would help you get a job, though; i doubt it.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Thursday, 7 October 2004 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Next Tuesday I have an interview for a job as a PROOFREADER at a local newspaper. I need to learn those funny squiggles by then. Any suggestions welcome, the sensibler the better. I hope my prospective employers don't random google this thread, because my name is associated with drawing massive cocks in the sand.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 10:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh good luck! You could have a look at some typical squiggles here but I'm not sure how comprehensive it are...

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 25 November 2004 10:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Er, just giving you some practice there obv.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 25 November 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got a comprehensive list of squiggles, just need to ram them in my brain somehow.

I give myself plenty of practice, bloody useless at typing these days.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 10:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I've been a full-time staff proofreader for nearly 20 years (and I do get laid occasionally and interact socially, when the perverse need arises). About a year after graduating with a BA in English I applied at an accounting firm's Continuing Education office, and it's been path-of-least-resistance ever since (I never wanted to teach or go to grad school -- or copyedit, even).

I make a "decent" wage and am currently adjusting to proofing three monthly medical journals after 9 years at a pair of AD AGENCIES, which are absolutely the most evil fucking whorehouses you can imagine (the last year I was hoping every day would be my last). With ads (mostly print for NY theater, then books) the actual workload was medium but backloaded to the end of the day, "rush"-oriented, and I was always among the first to be blamed whether an error was my fault or not. And creative language or exacting grammar are not major priorities on Grisham or Danielle Steel ads. And the account people (psychos or masochists, if not both) aren't particularly literate.

For lifestyle, the graveyard shift at a law firm was the worst -- I pissed coffee and was never fully awake outside of the office.

My impression is that publishers use mostly temps, which I've always disdained. Had an interview with Atlantic Records maybe 15 years ago; I remember the test had AC/DC album titles on it...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 November 2004 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah -- I learned the symbols (there can't be more than 20-30 of em, and I bet I don't use more than 15) by looking at a table, probably in the back of a style guide!

My current "house style" is AMA, which I certainly haven't mastered. At ad agencies, I mostly got to set the style, since all they really cared about was billing and that there were no typos.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 November 2004 12:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Ugh, I've been trying to get a bunch of academics to proof read my book of abstracts between mid-April and mid-June next year. I need to start asking this early because it'll take about six months of nagging to get a couple of volunteers. Haha, 'volunteers'.

Nagnagnag.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

If the nagging's not successful, I'll email Pudding and ask if he fancies a week in Glasgow and some extra pocket money, obv.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Abstracts? What, paintings?

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Pud, perhaps you should learn the lingo before applying for these jobs...

― He's allergic to lettuce (Mark C), Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't want to look overly keen.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

But point taken.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

abstract: a summary or statement of the contents of a book, article or formal speech: an abstract of her speech.

I still don't know why anyone would want a whole book of them. Perhaps it is a different abstracts.

So far I have learnt verso and recto and frontispiece and tipping-in.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

If a person was going to a conference and had to choose eight sessions to go to from the 160 on offer, they would need some information to help them decide: Book of Abstracts.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 25 November 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh.

That is very clever.

I would never have thought of it.

Never in a month of Sundays.

I don't think it's the kind of lingo I'll need, Markelby. It's the local paper, so I'll need things like 'vandal', 'smash', 'binge drinking' and 'new Sainsbury's'.

I am reading 'The Parts of a Book'. It is also full of things I would never have thought of, despite having spent most of my life with my nose in a book.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 25 November 2004 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

PROOFREADERS! How many words can/do you proofread per day, all things being equal?

My guess is 15,000.

Thanks in advance.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't you just say you read 15 millions words and that it all looked OK?

― KeithW (kmw), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Depends on the quality of what you're proofreading. I think if the changes you have to make are minor, 15,000 in a day is a fair estimate.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Sunday, 28 November 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I work as a freelance proof reader and copy editor. I've worked for journals, magazines, publishers, and individuals who want perfect resumes. The best thing about proofing or editing is that if you can get in with a publisher who publishes stuff you're into (or, in my case, stuff related to my studies) it's fun fun fun.

Substantive editing is not my friend though--I can't stand having to deal directly with authors. I understand why they get upset, but I don't like to argue unless it's about world affairs. Arguing about someone's structure or style is annoying.

― cybele (cybele), Sunday, 28 November 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

re: that proof readers marks thing

i thought the sign for "let stand" was "stet"?

maybe that is old school. but latin subjunctives are way cooler than dotted lines people!

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

A combination of STET and the dotted lines is the norm where I work. That way you know exactly what is to be stet-ed in a given line.

Medical proofreaders seem to make more $$$, I'd say up to 30 bucks an hour in major cities. Of course it helps to have a scientific/medical background, but that is by no means strictly necessary or even the norm. The American Medical Writers Association offers certificate programs--the one-day workshops are offered all over the place through association chapters. They're not too pricey and a good way to get your feet wet (also useful for fluffing up a sparse proofreading resume).

― quincie, Monday, 29 November 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I had my interview this morning. It went OK, I think. Quite a long chit-chat followed by a short test.

In answer to the original question from Lixibell Hotmail, it is better paid than I thought, once all the bonuses are included. Still not a vast amount, but respectable (by my standards).

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 30 November 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I did not get the job. I will get another one instead.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 2 December 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

I recently blagged myself a nice job as a proofreader on a national newspaper. The only problem is that I think they will soon promote me to copy-editor. Half of my evenings in the office just now are spent mucking about doing nothing, reading magazines, listening to music, playing computer games while waiting for the copy-editors to give me something. Those fuckers seem to be always working, and it only takes me a minute to fix their dots and dashes. I am very happy with this situation, but I will be embarrassed to say so, I think, in the end.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 24 December 2004 02:03 (twenty-one years ago)

fourteen years pass...

I am literally paying for this terrible career choice.

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 January 2019 15:07 (seven years ago)

How's it going now compared to fourteen years ago

― Never changed username before (cardamon), Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:08 (seven years ago)

And does anyone know a good course for this in the UK

― Never changed username before (cardamon), Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:08 (seven years ago)

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