Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs

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i thought this was a done deal already. they've got this new thing called "fellowship adventure group" or something. check that acronym!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:40 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Uhh, you're mostly right.

Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

they've got this new thing called "fellowship adventure group" or something.

Sounds like they're still annoyed with themselves at missing the LOTR gravy train. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i know! they couldn't have missed the connotations there!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

It was done for F9/11.

Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The Weinsteins will retain control of the Dimension label, which has produced a raft of films aimed at teenagers and children, including the Scream franchise = the really really really big money

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

bob has always been the big moneymaker with dimension.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

yeah, dimension is what kept miramax afloat all those years

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

all those lasse hallstrom movies aren't going to pay for themselves!

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:49 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I DID IT

Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, he was on ILX. Weird.

bro dudely (deangulberry), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:56 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I find his state law breaking celebration methods questionable.

Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Wednesday, 30 March 2005 16:58 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

five years pass...

The Weinstein Company and Miramax -- the studio the Weinstein brothers founded and then sold -- announced a gigantic partnership deal on Thursday (via The Hollywood Reporter), agreeing to create sequels of the smash hit films that the Weinsteins produced for the studio before starting their new production company.

A number of big films are set to see second installments added to their canon: 'Shakespeare In Love,' 'Bad Santa,' 'Swingers,' 'Rounders,' 'Bridget Jones's Diary,' are some of the most famous names to be in line for the part two treatment.

buzza, Monday, 20 December 2010 18:43 (eight years ago) Permalink

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317198/

zvookster, Monday, 20 December 2010 18:45 (eight years ago) Permalink

Shakespeare in Love 2? Oh yay

Square-Panted Sponge Robert (VegemiteGrrrl), Monday, 20 December 2010 19:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

Will Hard with a Vengeance

THX THO... (Nicole), Monday, 20 December 2010 19:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

Iambic Boogaloo

THX THO... (Nicole), Monday, 20 December 2010 19:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

there's already a second bridget jones movie

Ward Fowler, Monday, 20 December 2010 19:17 (eight years ago) Permalink

Shakespeare in Love 2: Havana Nights

THX THO... (Nicole), Monday, 20 December 2010 19:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

this time it's versonal

zvookster, Monday, 20 December 2010 19:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

Crying Game 2?

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 20 December 2010 19:32 (eight years ago) Permalink

there's already a second bridget jones movie

Please don't remind me.

State Attorney Foxhart Cubycheck (Billy Dods), Monday, 20 December 2010 19:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

Reindeer Games 2: Blood Sleigh

Matt Armstrong, Monday, 20 December 2010 20:49 (eight years ago) Permalink

Rounders: Legacy

da croupier, Monday, 20 December 2010 20:54 (eight years ago) Permalink

Chocolat 2: The Squeakque

a nan, a bal, an anal ― (abanana), Monday, 20 December 2010 21:55 (eight years ago) Permalink

Good Will Hunting 2: Open Season

Square-Panted Sponge Robert (VegemiteGrrrl), Monday, 20 December 2010 22:15 (eight years ago) Permalink

would watch a bad santa sequel

cereal bad boy (haitch), Monday, 20 December 2010 23:35 (eight years ago) Permalink

Bad Santa 2: The Baddening

Square-Panted Sponge Robert (VegemiteGrrrl), Monday, 20 December 2010 23:36 (eight years ago) Permalink

still lolling at "Iambic Boogaloo"

Square-Panted Sponge Robert (VegemiteGrrrl), Monday, 20 December 2010 23:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

What's next? Henry 5?!

I Am Kurious Assange (polyphonic), Monday, 20 December 2010 23:37 (eight years ago) Permalink

Rounders 2: What Goes A Rounders Comes Back A Rounders Again

zvookster, Monday, 20 December 2010 23:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

Seriously, Dude, Where's My Bard?

zvookster, Monday, 20 December 2010 23:39 (eight years ago) Permalink

Shakespeare In Love 2: Rotten In Denmark

Square-Panted Sponge Robert (VegemiteGrrrl), Tuesday, 21 December 2010 00:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

Just finished Peter Biskind's Down and Dirty Pictures: Miramax, Sundance, and the Rise of Independent Film. (Awful title.) Was actually published only a couple of months before the event that started this thread--he gives no indication that that's around the corner. Anyway, as someone who's mostly ignorant about the business end of things, I now know more about these people than I ever wanted to know, and I'm amazed a single movie ever gets made.

clemenza, Monday, 7 July 2014 22:57 (four years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

This is...something.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/05/us/statement-from-harvey-weinstein.html

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I want to buy the movie rights

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 4, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

that statement really keeps you guessing huh

ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 5 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

how the fuck can his lawyer let him make that statement.

He's always been an asshole of the highest order.

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 5 October 2017 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

the odds of decades worth of actors, actresses, directors, fellow producers, or any number of people not knowing about this stuff seems to me next to nil.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 October 2017 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Lisa Bloom, one of Weinstein’s attorneys who specializes in sexual harassment cases, adds that she has been advising him on “gender and power dynamics” for the past year, calling him “an old dinosaur learning new ways.” She adds that she’s “explained to him that due to the power difference between a major studio head like him and most others in the industry, whatever his motives, some of his words and behaviors can be perceived as inappropriate, even intimidating.”

http://catholicap.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/skd229428sdc.jpg

nomar, Thursday, 5 October 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

so this guy's got presumably top dollar lawyers and crisis management teams working for him and... that's his statement?

"not used to this new day and age when leveraging your power to coerce young women eager to get a foot in the door into sleeping with you isn't cool. i'm workin' on it. also fuck the NRA and Trump, right guys?!"

circa1916, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

oh i forgot about the Jay-Z quote from 4:44

circa1916, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

HEY GUYS LETS SHOW HOW CULTURALLY AWARE I AM

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Weinstein told NYT he "sincerely apologize[s]" for his behavior, is going on leave.
His lawyer tells Hollywood Reporter he is suing us.

— Nick Confessore (@nickconfessore) October 5, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

wow what a total POS

that "apology" reads like a horrendous parody

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Harvey the Hutt

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

surprised it wasn't written in crayon a la tarantino scripts

Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Speaking of, can't wait for the Tarantino statement. Oh wait I can.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Maybe he can direct the movie.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:13 (one year ago) Permalink

I posted on this thread 12 years ago jesus christ

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

lol the I DID IT thread has to do with Harvey's penchant for smoking cigars indoors in CA and not giving a fuck

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:35 (one year ago) Permalink

BREAKING: Weinstein's lawyer gave Manhattan DA 0K after he declined to file sex assault charges against Weinstein https://t.co/LIKNFRWAUv

— David Sirota (@davidsirota) October 5, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:41 (one year ago) Permalink

bad week for Cyrus Vance, jesus christ

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:42 (one year ago) Permalink

also apparently being a DA in NYC is lucrative as fuck!

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 5 October 2017 22:42 (one year ago) Permalink

People are just tripping over themselves to give him money because they like him so much!

jmm, Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, yeah. Straight shooter, that Vance.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 5 October 2017 23:19 (one year ago) Permalink

btw I thought I posted on this thread like 12 years ago noting what an asshole AND misogynist Harvey was and is, but I couldn't find it via search. Because back then I knew someone at Miramar who complained about this exact shit.

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, 6 October 2017 02:00 (one year ago) Permalink

*Miramax

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, 6 October 2017 02:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Goddamn this story is insane. Yeah I'm with Josh, there's no way a huge chunk of the film industry didn't know about this. For decades! So gross

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 02:06 (one year ago) Permalink

so many open secrets just like every other ____________ industrial complex.

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, 6 October 2017 02:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Why don't these guys feel shame that these women have no actual interest in them, and/or are actively turned off by them? Do they just not conceive of the women's thoughts at all? Or is that part of the turn on?

Virginia Plain, Friday, 6 October 2017 02:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Both

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 02:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Probably. I mean it's such a bizarre fetish, dude looks fucking disgusting & he just wants massages & women to see his whole... situation. Getting off on power and humiliation.

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 02:41 (one year ago) Permalink

If I thought a dude was disgusted by me, I would feel so embarrassed to try and coerce that dude to sleep with me.

Even more so if the only things in my favor were power/ money/ ability to further their career.

I think you would just have to get to the point where you don't view the other people as actual humans having any sort of agency. They are just your playthings?

Also thinking of DJT lying in bed naked under a sheet because he's ashamed of his body trying to get some woman to come into his hotel bedroom.

Virginia Plain, Friday, 6 October 2017 03:06 (one year ago) Permalink

It takes all kinds

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 04:58 (one year ago) Permalink

there's a definite possibility he thinks women are attracted to him

qualx, Friday, 6 October 2017 06:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Good follow-up by Rebecca Traister at The Cut: https://www.thecut.com/2017/10/why-the-weinstein-sexual-harassment-allegations-came-out-now.html

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 6 October 2017 12:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Have fun with that, dude.

https://t.co/n0Ty3RiR04

Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 13:18 (one year ago) Permalink

That's an anonymously sourced Daily Mail story though.

jmm, Friday, 6 October 2017 13:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Best kind! (I mean, thing is: at this point, sure seems like the thing he'd eventually claim.)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 6 October 2017 13:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Jeffrey Wells may be the most loathsome blogger in Hollywood, but some of the comments are 'enlightening':

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2017/10/pay-play-massages-payoffs-messy-behavior/

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 October 2017 15:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Someone please check the lead content in whatever Cilizza drinks at lunch.

They weren't major donors to the GOP like Weinstein is to Dems https://t.co/dIjVRzLRAq

— Chris Cillizza (@CillizzaCNN) October 6, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 6 October 2017 16:36 (one year ago) Permalink

lmao constantly pointing out that Weinstein was a major donor to the Dems doesn't seem like a well-thought out line of attack

frogbs, Friday, 6 October 2017 16:39 (one year ago) Permalink

it's no different and also not as bad as that picture of Bill & Hillary with Trump & Melania. and yeah Cilliza = moron

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 16:55 (one year ago) Permalink

http://gothamist.com/2017/10/06/harvey_weinstein_accuses_ny_times_o.php?_ga=2.148250871.19607542.1506960782-484564342.1476232601

what a piece of shit

Judd's memory of their encounter was also false, Weinstein insisted, before saying, "I know Ashley Judd is going through a tough time right now, I read her book [her memoir ‘All That Is Bitter and Sweet’], in which she talks about being the victim of sexual abuse and depression as a child. Her life story was brutal, and I have to respect her. In a year from now, I am going to reach out to her."

nomar, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

"in a year from now"

completely perplexed by his statements & comments yesterday in the wake of the NYT piece. like someone said upthread, doesn't this guy have the best crisis management & team of lawyers available??? hasn't he learned that when this shit happens, you make a milquetoast statement & then GO AWAY for a while? it's just bizarre, you see this same thing happen to so many other huge figures that have been exposed & fallen so quickly.

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:19 (one year ago) Permalink

doesn't this guy have the best crisis management & team of lawyers available???

including Obama WH Communications Director Anita Dunn

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 6 October 2017 17:22 (one year ago) Permalink

easier to sell drones vs sex in America

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 6 October 2017 17:22 (one year ago) Permalink

xp I guess he's just ignoring any advice he gets? kind of like Trump, you can get to a certain level where you are too powerful for anyone to protect you from your own worst instincts?

soref, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:24 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah otm it definitely reminded me of Trump. also Ailes, O'Reilly, Cosby obviously...

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:27 (one year ago) Permalink

a certain pain-feelin' president

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 6 October 2017 17:35 (one year ago) Permalink

ha, this pic belongs in that thread of "faces of people who have to apologize for something in front of their wives"

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/303385/2685363/1287687757153/bill-clinton-404_683090c.jpg

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Seattle's child-rapist ex-mayor's response to the surfacing of accusations earlier this year was to publish a doctor's note confirming that there were no moles on his genitals. Powerful people just want to keep talking.

.oO (silby), Friday, 6 October 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Powerful *old* people. Seems like a trend with so many of these cases. Shit, remember the Sandusky/Costas interview?

flappy bird, Friday, 6 October 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

People with wealth and power who ruthlessly screw whoever they want throughout their entire lives have traditionally made deathbed conversions, so as to clear their path into heaven before they die. Confession is part of the deal. So is building a chapel or paying for masses in perpetuity, although making movies about the NRA probably counts, too.

A is for (Aimless), Friday, 6 October 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

A story so old that the very first tale in Boccaccio's Decameron is a hilarious take on this phenomenon.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 7 October 2017 11:00 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah it's an age old tale. exploitation and the entertainment industry. there is the talent and there are the gatekeepers, leeching off both artists and the public. makes you tempted to say, fuck it, just go DIY, just go local. but these abusive power structures exist pretty much everywhere, whether you are CEO of movies or a local promoter who controls access.

this story in particular certainly explains how most movies are largely morality-free power fantasies and have been for decades. it's all cynical, there is no hope for humanity, just self-referential consumerism. Superman just stands there with a dumb look on his face while a room full of people explodes. when is the last time you left a movie feeling something, anything, that perhaps pointed to a universal truth or insight? look who is making them, amoral privileged power mongers.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 15:19 (one year ago) Permalink

when is the last time you left a movie feeling something, anything, that perhaps pointed to a universal truth or insight?

Last night.

Frederik B, Saturday, 7 October 2017 15:20 (one year ago) Permalink

thanks for sharing, that sounds like a great movie

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 15:25 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah that happens

/when is the last time you left a movie feeling something, anything, that perhaps pointed to a universal truth or insight?/

Last night.


Me too

flappy bird, Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:00 (one year ago) Permalink

weren't you just lolling about an publically elected official twice accused of sexual harassment and using his position to silence his abusers?

see, people are fine with it to a degree, even if it is sick, because the tribal thing is so strong, the consumer aspect of branding to one side or the other. to centrist liberals Bill Clinton's transgressions are a laughing matter, and if you are a leftist and bring it up, you are called a sexist or a Russian plant. "oh no! he has to apologize to his wife!" dismisses the voices of the abused. belittling the shit he did normalizes that behavior.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:24 (one year ago) Permalink

silence his victims

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:24 (one year ago) Permalink

like if there is going to be a moral ground, it needs to apply to everyone, not just "the good guys" or "the bad guys".

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah hollywood's been a cesspit for, what, a century? But it's produced great films anyway. Its hit rate may be worse now than at certain points last century but here's the thing, films are being made outside of that particular system. It's kinda on you if you only watch flying punchman movies. Whether good films still exist is kinda a side issue to the topic at hand tho

good art is orange; great art is teal (wins), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Sorry on train, missed xposts. I'm against bill Clinton

good art is orange; great art is teal (wins), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Dying

passé aggresif (darraghmac), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

lol sorry

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:43 (one year ago) Permalink

man Weinstein made "Velvet Goldmine" and "Princess Mononoke". those are two solid films.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:44 (one year ago) Permalink

"Holy Smoke" is really good.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:44 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah there are sickos in any profession it would be better for people to stand up against this. this is the big tragedy here, that many people knew about this and tolerated it because it was good for their careers. it is a selfish act. the internet is good here because now it is easier to get your story out, and seeing all these people come out after something like this drops, it shows that you are not alone. this must be encouraging, and is relatively a new hing, compared to the isolation of pre-internet social media.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Let me get this straight, you said Weinstein “made” Princess Mononoke.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 7 October 2017 16:55 (one year ago) Permalink

How the hell hasn’t adbru gotten the 51 yet, I wonder to myself daily

El Tomboto, Saturday, 7 October 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

ha, I'd never heard this story

Miyazaki met with Harvey Weinstein, Miramax's chairman; Weinstein demanded that edits should be made to Princess Mononoke.[38] In response, Toshio Suzuki sent Weinstein a katana with a message stating "No cuts."[38]

jmm, Saturday, 7 October 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Miyazaki commented on the incident: "Actually, my producer did that. Although I did go to New York to meet this man, this Harvey Weinstein, and I was bombarded with this aggressive attack, all these demands for cuts. I defeated him."[14] Weinstein has always insisted that such editing was done in the interest of creating the most financially viable film. "I'm not cutting for fun", Harvey Weinstein said in an interview. "I'm cutting for the shit to work. All my life I served one master: the film. I love movies."[9][15]

Harvey Weinstein telling Hayao Miyazaki how to make movies, give me a break.

jmm, Saturday, 7 October 2017 17:13 (one year ago) Permalink

ha, I'd never heard this story

_Miyazaki met with Harvey Weinstein, Miramax's chairman; Weinstein demanded that edits should be made to Princess Mononoke.[38] In response, Toshio Suzuki sent Weinstein a katana with a message stating "No cuts."[38]_


That is fucking awesome

flappy bird, Saturday, 7 October 2017 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Kind of a mixed message, though. Why would you send someone a sword if you DON'T want them to cut things.

JRN, Saturday, 7 October 2017 19:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Fired yesterday. Apparently NYT had expose on him in 2004 but killed it under pressure:

I traveled to Rome and tracked down the man who held the plum position of running Miramax Italy. According to multiple accounts, he had no film experience and his real job was to take care of Weinstein’s women needs, among other things.

As head of Miramax Italy in 2003 and 2004, Fabrizio Lombardo was paid $400,000 for less than a year of employment. He was on the payroll of Miramax and thus the Walt Disney Company, which had bought the indie studio in 1993.

I had people on the record telling me Lombardo knew nothing about film, and others citing evenings he organized with Russian escorts.

flappy bird, Monday, 9 October 2017 17:52 (one year ago) Permalink

After intense pressure from Weinstein, which included having Matt Damon and Russell Crowe call me directly to vouch for Lombardo and unknown discussions well above my head at the Times, the story was gutted.

Those must have been some surreal calls, jesus.

change display name (Jordan), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Who signed off on this headline? pic.twitter.com/213KJQMPzA

— Dan Scary (@djperry1973) October 9, 2017

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 9 October 2017 18:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesus, Ronan Farrow's piece in the New Yorker is nauseating. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/from-aggressive-overtures-to-sexual-assault-harvey-weinsteins-accusers-tell-their-stories

Asia Argento, an Italian film actress and director, told me that she did not speak out until now––Weinstein, she told me, forcibly performed oral sex on her—because she feared that Weinstein would “crush” her. “I know he has crushed a lot of people before,” Argento said. “That’s why this story—in my case, it’s twenty years old, some of them are older—has never come out.”

. . .

Three women––among them Argento and a former aspiring actress named Lucia Evans—told me that Weinstein raped them, allegations that include Weinstein forcibly performing or receiving oral sex and forcing vaginal sex. Four women said that they experienced unwanted touching that could be classified as an assault. In an audio recording captured during a New York Police Department sting operation in 2015 and made public here for the first time, Weinstein admits to groping a Filipina-Italian model named Ambra Battilana Gutierrez, describing it as behavior he is “used to.” Four of the women I interviewed cited encounters in which Weinstein exposed himself or masturbated in front of them.

. . .

Other employees described what was, in essence, a culture of complicity at Weinstein’s places of business, with numerous people throughout the companies fully aware of his behavior but either abetting it or looking the other way. Some employees said that they were enlisted in subterfuge to make the victims feel safe. A female executive with the company described how Weinstein assistants and others served as a “honeypot”—they would initially join a meeting, but then Weinstein would dismiss them, leaving him alone with the woman.

. . .

Multiple sources said that Weinstein frequently bragged about planting items in media outlets about those who spoke against him; these sources feared that they might be similarly targeted. Several pointed to Gutierrez’s case, in 2015: after she went to the police, negative items discussing her sexual history and impugning her credibility began rapidly appearing in New York gossip pages. (In the taped conversation with Gutierrez, Weinstein asks her to join him for “five minutes,” and warns, “Don’t ruin your friendship with me for five minutes.”)

And it goes on and on.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I know, I know, the Weakly Standard, but I liked this piece.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:24 (one year ago) Permalink

wonder if there's any chance of criminal charges against Weinstein

jmm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:25 (one year ago) Permalink

no

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:26 (one year ago) Permalink

2. Audio: Harvey Weinstein admits to assaulting model Ambra Gutierrez. Keep in mind NYC DA Cy Vance had this audio. https://t.co/8W4s5CrLy7 pic.twitter.com/Ft4P70g6Mm

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) October 10, 2017

Good lord

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:40 (one year ago) Permalink

Weinstein had a reputation for insisting on edits when he acquired foreign films, but obv his recently revealed crimes are in a more distressing category.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 15:46 (one year ago) Permalink

it's all just horrific. i choose not to read any comments on these articles, there are so many trashy people in this town who are more than willing to sling mud at those coming forward.

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:00 (one year ago) Permalink

That's the same DA involved in the Ivanka/Don Jr. fraud case -- and who took donations from Trump's lawyer. https://t.co/1sf2NVGd5V https://t.co/Oh20lqTyRo

— Rachel Glickhouse (@Riogringa) October 10, 2017

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:09 (one year ago) Permalink

(Cy Vance, that is)

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Two sources close to the police investigation said that they had no reason to doubt Gutierrez’s account of the incident. One of them, a police source, said that the department had collected more than enough evidence to prosecute Weinstein. But the other source said that Gutierrez’s statements about her past complicated the case for the office of the Manhattan District Attorney, Cyrus Vance, Jr. After two weeks of investigation, the District Attorney’s office decided not to file charges. The D.A.’s office declined to comment on this story but pointed me to their statement at the time: “This case was taken seriously from the outset, with a thorough investigation conducted by our Sex Crimes Unit. After analyzing the available evidence, including multiple interviews with both parties, a criminal charge is not supported.”

“We had the evidence,” the police source involved in the operation told me. “It’s a case that made me angrier than I thought possible, and I have been on the force a long time.”

So it's pure victim blaming. Just the fact that she claimed to have been sexually assaulted before was enough to invalidate recorded evidence.

jmm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:13 (one year ago) Permalink

It sucks that this stuff is coming out so late after the NY primaries, Vance clearly should and could have been primaried.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:21 (one year ago) Permalink

isn't Ronan Farrow ...? Impressed how the writer's personal life did not get inserted into the story at all!

sarahell, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:24 (one year ago) Permalink

I guess Ronan Farrow was investigating this independently of the NYT reporters? I wonder how many simultaneous investigations were going on.

jmm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Ben Affleck clears his throat:

pic.twitter.com/f5AgemRXds

— Ben Affleck (@BenAffleck) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Looking forward to "THE BOURNE APOLOGY" in which Jason fights off attempts to expose a pimp

— Anthony Bourdain (@Bourdain) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:30 (one year ago) Permalink

damn

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:33 (one year ago) Permalink

This in response to Ben also very good/cold:

how's your brother doing https://t.co/KRIjzRtC53

— pilot (@pilotbacon) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:36 (one year ago) Permalink

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLvlgmeVoAA20FB.jpg:small

uh

mookieproof, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Meantime, is this the angriest I've ever seen or heard this man, about anything?

“I will go anywhere I can learn more about myself.” Try prison you fucker. https://t.co/Wy6fQyTqAw

— david sylvian (@davidsylvian58) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:43 (one year ago) Permalink

"fucker" maybe not the best choice of insults there

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I had to check Schrader's FB page to see if this was real *and it was*

buddy. pic.twitter.com/I29HkMT7UN

— Ken Greller (@kengreller) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Good thread

Yet last year Nate Parker, who was acquitted of a rape charge almost 2 decades ago by a jury had to be gotten out of the paint immediately?

— Neo Liberal (@RickyRawls) October 10, 2017

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 16:51 (one year ago) Permalink

someone dig up that Shcrader/Nastassja Kinski excerpt

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

nice time to come up with a stunningly tin-eared take, P.S.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

And the hits just keep on coming: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/gwyneth-paltrow-angelina-jolie-harvey-weinstein.html

What was the last remotely useful thing Schrader did?

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:08 (one year ago) Permalink

his new movie is good

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink

When Gwyneth Paltrow was 22 years old, she got a role that would take her from actress to star: The film producer Harvey Weinstein hired her for the lead in the Jane Austen adaptation “Emma.” Before shooting began, he summoned her to his suite at the Peninsula Beverly Hills hotel for a work meeting that began uneventfully.

It ended with Mr. Weinstein placing his hands on her and suggesting they head to the bedroom for massages, she said.

“I was a kid, I was signed up, I was petrified,” she said in an interview, publicly disclosing that she was sexually harassed by the man who ignited her career and later helped her win an Academy Award.

She refused his advances, she said, and confided in Brad Pitt, her boyfriend at the time. Mr. Pitt confronted Mr. Weinstein, and soon after, the producer threatened her not to tell anyone else about his come-on. “I thought he was going to fire me,” she said.

Rosanna Arquette, a star of “Pulp Fiction,” has a similar account of Mr. Weinstein’s behavior, as does Judith Godrèche, a leading French actress. So does Angelina Jolie, who said that during the release of “Playing by Heart” in the late 1990s, he made unwanted advances on her in a hotel room, which she rejected.

“I had a bad experience with Harvey Weinstein in my youth, and as a result, chose never to work with him again and warn others when they did,” Ms. Jolie said in an email. “This behavior towards women in any field, any country is unacceptable.”

A New York Times investigation last week chronicled a hidden history of sexual harassment allegations against Mr. Weinstein and settlements he paid, often involving former employees, over three decades up to 2015. By Sunday evening, his entertainment company fired him.

On Tuesday, The New Yorker published a report that included multiple allegations of sexual assault, including forced oral and vaginal sex. The article also included accounts of sexual harassment going back to the 1990s, with women describing how intimidating Mr. Weinstein was.

Several days ago, additional actresses began sharing with The Times on-the-record stories of casting-couch abuses. Their accounts hint at the sweep of Mr. Weinstein’s alleged harassment, targeting women on the way to stardom, those who had barely acted and others in between. Fantasies that the public eagerly watched onscreen, the women recounted, sometimes masked the dark experiences of those performing in them.

The encounters they recalled followed a similar narrative: First, they said, Mr. Weinstein lured them to a private place to discuss films, scripts or even Oscar campaigns. Then, the women contend, he variously tried to initiate massages, touched them inappropriately, took off his clothes or offered them explicit work-for-sex deals.

In a statement on Tuesday, his spokeswoman, Sallie Hofmeister, said: “Any allegations of non-consensual sex are unequivocally denied by Mr. Weinstein. Mr. Weinstein has further confirmed that there were never any acts of retaliation against any women for refusing his advances. He will not be available for further comments, as he is taking the time to focus on his family, on getting counseling and rebuilding his life.”

Even in an industry in which sexual harassment has long persisted, Mr. Weinstein stands out, according to the actresses and current and former employees of the film companies he ran, Miramax and the Weinstein Company. He had an elaborate system reliant on the cooperation of others: Assistants often booked the meetings, arranged the hotel rooms and sometimes even delivered the talent, then disappeared, the actresses and employees recounted. They described how some of Mr. Weinstein’s executives and assistants then found them agents and jobs or hushed actresses who were upset.

His alleged behavior became something of a Hollywood open secret: When the comedian Seth MacFarlane announced Oscar nominees in 2013, he joked, “Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein.” The audience laughed. According to a 2015 memo by a former Weinstein Company executive that The Times previously disclosed, the misconduct continued.

More established actresses were fearful of speaking out because they had work; less established ones were scared because they did not. “This is Harvey Weinstein,” Katherine Kendall, who appeared in the film “Swingers” and television roles, remembers telling herself after an encounter in which she said Mr. Weinstein undressed and chased her around a living room. Telling others meant “I’ll never work again and no one is going to care or believe me,” she reasoned at the time, she said in a recent interview.

Ms. Paltrow, 45, is now an entrepreneur, no longer dependent on securing her next acting role. But she emphasized how much more vulnerable she felt at 22, when Mr. Weinstein had just signed her up for a star-making part. On a trip to Los Angeles, she received a schedule from her agents for the hotel meeting with Mr. Weinstein.

There was no reason to suspect anything untoward, because “it’s on the fax, it’s from C.A.A.,” she said, referring to Creative Artists Agency, which represented her.

When Mr. Weinstein tried to massage her and invited her into the bedroom, she immediately left, she said, and remembers feeling stunned as she drove away. “I thought you were my Uncle Harvey,” she recalled thinking, explaining that she had seen him as a mentor.

After she told Mr. Pitt about the episode, he approached Mr. Weinstein at a theater premiere and told him never to touch Ms. Paltrow again. Mr. Pitt confirmed the account to The Times through a representative.

Soon after, Mr. Weinstein called Ms. Paltrow and berated her for discussing the episode, she recalled. (She said she also told a few friends, family members and her agent.) “He screamed at me for a long time,” she said, once again fearing she could lose the role in “Emma.” “It was brutal.” But she stood her ground, she said, and insisted that he put the relationship back on professional footing.

Even as Ms. Paltrow became known as the “first lady of Miramax” and won an Oscar for “Shakespeare in Love” in 1999, very few people knew about Mr. Weinstein’s advances. “I was expected to keep the secret,” she said.

Like several of the other women interviewed for this article, she felt she had to suppress the experience. She praised Mr. Weinstein publicly, posed for pictures with him and played the glowing star to his powerful producer. Yet their work relationship grew rockier over the years, she said, and she distanced herself. “He was alternately generous and supportive and championing, and punitive and bullying,” she said.

Now, with the process of tallying the size and scope of Mr. Weinstein’s abuse allegations underway, Ms. Paltrow and others said they wanted to support women who had already come forward and help those in similar situations feel less alone.

“We’re at a point in time when women need to send a clear message that this is over,” Ms. Paltrow said. “This way of treating women ends now.”

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

fortunately Weinstein didn't give that film the Wong or Bertolucci treatment

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

okay I read Simon H's linked article up there and the last lines don't disappoint

The 2016 election demolished Clinton world once and for all, to be replaced by the cult of Obama, an austere sect designated by their tailored hair shirts with Nehru collars. “That is not who we are as Americans,” they chant, as Harvey Weinstein’s ashes are scattered in the wind.

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:38 (one year ago) Permalink

what's wrong with tailored hair shirts with Nehru collars

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:40 (one year ago) Permalink

xxxp wtf is wrong with Tablet Magazine?! Weirdest fucking media outlet, I really don't get it at all.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:42 (one year ago) Permalink

What wit – I don't even know if those last two sentences are praise.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 17:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Excuses excuses

Manhattan DA’s office on Weinstein: "If we could have prosecuted Harvey Weinstein for the conduct that occurred in 2015, we would have." pic.twitter.com/Y5HslZORN4

— Dan Linden (@DanLinden) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 18:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Why can we not have this man beaten publicly?

It took 5 days for Hillary Clinton to say something on Weinsteinhttps://t.co/D8Gq6l5DOZ

— Chris Cillizza (@CillizzaCNN) October 10, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

stopped clock finally hit upon a valid point

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 18:56 (one year ago) Permalink

LOL no he didn't, but as long as it's dragging a Clinton for something they aren't responsible I expect you to be on board.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 18:58 (one year ago) Permalink

DR MORBIUS AND OTHER DUMMIES: Why can't Clinton just shut up and go away?

ALSO DR MORBIUS AND OTHER DUMMIES: Why isn't Clinton saying anything about Weinstein?

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 18:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm surprised that flies and shit are in proximity.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:12 (one year ago) Permalink

related

Weinstein wasn’t always so pro-Obama. In 2008, he was a staunch Hillary Clinton backer during the acrimonious Democratic primary. During that cycle, the Democratic National Committee docked Michigan and Florida delegates for trying to jump the queue in scheduling primaries—a move that hurt Clinton’s chances against Obama. CNN reported that Weinstein threatened then-Speaker Nancy Pelosi, saying he would not give to congressional Democrats unless Pelosi backed a plan to hold revotes in those two states. Weinstein confirmed his pressure in a statement to Nikki Finke, but Pelosi did not budge and Obama won the primary. Notably, Pelosi does not appear on the list of candidates to whom Weinstein has given, though he did give to the DCCC after the clash.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/weinstein-democratic-bankroller/542202/

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Hillary Clinton should also be fired from the Weinstein Company imo.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:21 (one year ago) Permalink

And probably impeached.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Well public statements about tolerating abhorrent behavior towards women put her in an awkward position

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:25 (one year ago) Permalink

XPS If only for the cuts she demanded be made to Shaolin Soccer.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Erica Garner noted today (with some horror) that Weinstein's was the endorsement the Clinton camp rolled out shortly after she endorsed Bernie.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow @ all of this

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

That's kind of funny in light of Weinstein's emails specifically about the Garner endorsement and how they had to take some attention away from it -- like, having Weinstein himself endorse Clinton is not how I would think of going about trying to achieve that goal.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Why? Was it up to Hilary Clinton to break the Harvey Weinstein story? No, it very obviously was not, any more than it was up to McGowan or Paltrow or Jolie or any of these other women.

What is it that Clinton has not done in regards to this specific situation that you think she should have done or should now do? I'm going to assume that the money Weinstein donated and raised for her two failed Presidential campaigns is spent. It's gone. There's no giving it back. Should she give something back to someone out of her personal wealth now? If so, why? And who?

Should she not have ever taken money from him in the first place? That's about the only reasonable argument to be made here, but unless you, or Morbius, or Chris Cilizza know something that nobody else does, you can't definitively say "Clinton knew about Weinstein and took his money anyway."

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Several xps to man alive

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

No dude, I'm saying she is obviously in an awkward position to make public statements about what kind of treatment of women should be tolerated because of her own husband.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh, yeah, I forgot she's responsible for him and Weinstein both.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:35 (one year ago) Permalink

As for what should have been done, idk, it certainly wasn't any one man or woman's special responsibility, but that's exactly the problem, the culture of tolerating whatever from "powerful people" because they are powerful; and it's not like those people tolerating him were minimum wage workers dependent on him so they could feed their kids; some of them were themselves powerful and sought not to rock the boat with him out of pure self-interest.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh, yeah, I forgot she's responsible for him and Weinstein both.

― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:35 PM (fifty-two seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Totally missing the point. I'm not saying it's her "fault" I'm just saying it sounds a little thin coming from her to say what kind of behavior should be tolerated when she clearly tolerates it.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:37 (one year ago) Permalink

also from the Atlantic

Malia Obama, Obama’s eldest daughter, interned for Weinstein this year.

BHO didn't read Gawker?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Tolerating a philandering husband who at worst took advantage of an eager intern is a lot different from tolerating a serial abuser and rapist. It's apples and snow tires.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Bill Clinton has also been accused of rape.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:43 (one year ago) Permalink

"at worst" ... I think you mighta wanna read up

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:43 (one year ago) Permalink

But since Clinton also tolerated Weinstein, not sure what your "apples and snow tires" point is

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Even the Lewinsky stuff, however, I think if you can imagine the same scenario but just with any gross old man boss instead of the democratic savior of the 90s and it would seem a little worse than you are characterizing it.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:45 (one year ago) Permalink

PROVABLY at worst. Yes, I lived through the Paula Jones era, boys.

But since Clinton also tolerated Weinstein, not sure what your "apples and snow tires" point is

Again, this would be the "What did she know and when did she know it?" question, wouldn't it? Want to share, since obviously you know?

I'm glad the Usual Suspects have managed to identify the primary villain, Hilary Clinton, though.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

is there a rule that every thread on this board must turn into a protracted argument about Hillary Clinton or something

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^^^

by the light of the burning Citroën, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Like, if you find yourself nodding along with Chris Cilizza, take a step back and reassess where you went wrong.

xp Don't make me pull an "I happen to have Marshall McLuhan right here" in re Lewinsky. She's been pretty upfront about her role and neither you nor I are in a position to gainsay her.

Anyway, Morbs still stans for both Allen and Polanski as artists so.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:50 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm sorry, I can't get over the fact that David Sylvian chimed in on this on Twitter with the word 'fucker'. What a weird world this is.

akm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Wagner wrote some pretty fair music.

I've said repeatedly that Allen hasn't made a good film in 20 years, so piss off.

xp

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:53 (one year ago) Permalink

wait till NRO cites David Sylvian – then it's a weird world

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

wow, i've never seen a tweet sweat before https://t.co/3PmQG6FkUS

— Kelly Weill (@KELLYWEILL) October 10, 2017

mookieproof, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

PROVABLY at worst.

Virtually none of what's being discussed here is "provable" in a legal context so that's a bullshit framing

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:01 (one year ago) Permalink

always believe the woman (unless she's talking about Bill Clinton)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:03 (one year ago) Permalink

wonder if there's any chance of criminal charges against Weinstein

imo this is definitely going to happen i wouldn't be shocked if he fled the country

Mordy, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

xp that's fair enough, so I'll also just say that it was hard *at the time* to separate the signal from the noise re: Bill Clinton accusers given the poisonous atmosphere of political hit pieces against him -- drug trafficking, assassinations, and all that garbage. Bill Clinton probably did harass Jones and Willey. Broaddrick appears to have gone bonkers, so who knows with her.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:09 (one year ago) Permalink

🐦[wow, i’ve never seen a tweet sweat before https://t.co/3PmQG6FkUS🕸
— Kelly Weill (@KELLYWEILL) October 10, 2017🕸]🐦


bahahahhaba
Def check out second tweet where he says we’re living in a reverse Handmaid’s Tale world

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Donna Karan checkin' in

"You look at everything all over the world today and how women are dressing and what they are asking by just presenting themselves the way they do. What are they asking for? Trouble."

"I don't think it's only Harvey Weinstein. I don't think we're only looking at him. I think we're looking at a world much deeper than that. Yes, I think he's being looked at right now as a symbol, not necessarily as him. I know his wife, I think they're wonderful people, Harvey has done some amazing things...."

http://gothamist.com/2017/10/10/donna_karan_harvey_weinste.php

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

/wonder if there's any chance of criminal charges against Weinstein/

imo this is definitely going to happen i wouldn't be shocked if he fled the country


No way he flees the country, dude does not have a French passport like Polanski.

re: if he’ll get charged with anything... at this point I say no but story could change tmrw

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:12 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah Karan stepped in that big time. Expect boycotts of her shit.

akm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:15 (one year ago) Permalink

grotesque producer accused of raping beloved starlets & seems like tons of testimonies now. he can't buy his way out of this.

Mordy, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:16 (one year ago) Permalink

grotesque producer accused of raping beloved starlets & seems like tons of testimonies now. he can't buy his way out of this.


if Cosby can make it out...

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

he's already been sacked, I'd be surprised if there are any more formal steps taken. either way, he's just one of scores.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah HW is definitely not the exception to the rule wrt Hollywood producers im guessing

flappy bird, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:21 (one year ago) Permalink

What's Bryan Singer got on his docket lately?

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:21 (one year ago) Permalink

we're getting to the point (or getting to yet another point) where people who put the blinders on when they get to a certain age or position are having to wake the fuck up and realize they're complicit in things

the entire "oh but X did Y in 1990!" argument is bullshit because yeah, people should have been better about things thing, and being complicit then or deeming something socially tolerable nearly thirty years ago doesn't mean rolling on with that in 2017 is still going to fly

the short version is that people have assuming such casting couch arrangements, even when it's rape and not tacit quid pro quo, are just the cost of doing business. and, frankly, no.

mh, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

tbrr the idea that hollywood includes all this shit as a matter of course and it's lurid tabloid material has propped up Weinstein more than hurt him, if you go by the anecdotes about his people dropping leads to the press

mh, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Anyway, Morbs still stans for both Allen and Polanski as artists so.

― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, October 10, 2017 2:50 PM (thirty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm on the record eviscerating Woody Allen fwiw

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

If various celebrities and politicians want to claim they knew nothing about the sexual assault allegations, I guess that's fine, there's a lot coming out about that now that maybe wasn't fully vocalized in the past. But anyone that was pals with Weinstein or happily took his money at least knew that he was a horrible person. I knew this and I know next to nothing about the movie biz.

Moodles, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

From Terry Crews's Twitter -- he didn't thread these, but start here and scroll up:

This whole thing with Harvey Weinstein is giving me PTSD. Why? Because this kind of thing happened to ME. (1/Cont.)

— terrycrews (@terrycrews) October 10, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

kinda hard to work in that sphere while avoiding horrible people entirely. If you worked in nightclubs up through the '50s, you worked for gangsters, period.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I have to imagine if you grab at Terry Crews like that, you are secretly hoping to be flattened.

Moodles, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

or expressing just how much power you perceive yourself to possess

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

tom cruise should have known better than to do that to terry crews. did he think he could get away with that because their names are pronounced the same?

akm, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean, that at least helps put the lie to the entire "if it was me I'd punch the guy or fight back" bullshit

the default human reaction for sexual harassment from someone you've met isn't some "oh shit, better fight back" reaction, especially if it's among a group of your peers and people with power

mh, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

JFC no, it's not
anyone who thinks that is living in a magical imaginary world

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 21:28 (one year ago) Permalink

it's almost like the common denominator is power, which is primarily held in money

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 21:29 (one year ago) Permalink

and men

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

yes

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 21:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Rose McGowan is absolutely fierce on Twitter today. She's called out Affleck as a liar, claiming he absolutely knew about Weinstein, and she's started a petition calling for the entire TWC board to be dissolved.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:15 (one year ago) Permalink

she's fantastic

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Tarantino still hasn't said a word, has he.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:23 (one year ago) Permalink

I am sure he has said many, many words but none publicly

mh, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:26 (one year ago) Permalink

he was talking about how he shivered when he heard the news and wanted to find out more about it

What a great job Andy Muschetti has done in IT. It made me shiver. What other interesting things does Argentina have?

— Quentin Tarantino (@qtarantino) October 9, 2017

sorry i misread that

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Amazing.

Weinstein's wife is splitting

http://people.com/movies/harvey-weinstein-wife-georgina-chapman-separating/

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Fired Weinsteins because they were irresponsible, and Harvey was an incorrigible bully. Had no idea he was capable of these horrible actions

— Michael Eisner (@Michael_Eisner) October 10, 2017

I needed a laugh, thank you https://t.co/qXDWYXZmkU

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Its interesting to read that Brad Pitt got up in Weinsteins face after he harrassed Gwynneth P, and said "touch her again and there'll be trouble" and it seems that worked. Why didnt more men do this?

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:35 (one year ago) Permalink

found this on rose mcgowan's twitter (thank you, i don't follow actors because they blab too much but i like her)

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/damon-affleck-father-of-daughters-excuse-harvey-weinstein.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1

zing!

Having a daughter shouldn’t be a requirement for internalizing the problems of working within a sexist industry. Your wives gave birth to a baby girl, not a moral compass.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:36 (one year ago) Permalink

xp - trayce many of them need to have a daughter first

sadlol

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:37 (one year ago) Permalink

LL - god. Sad but true :(

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:37 (one year ago) Permalink

hate to say it but Pitt was probably one of the few actors who could have done it and a lot of these women were alone in their fight and didn't feel like they had the backup, probably. Jolie decided to not work with him ever again, and looking at IMDb it appears as though Pitt himself worked on only three projects associated w/Weinstein and only on one where he was more than a cameo (Inglorious Basterds, which was likely a film where he wouldn't have had to deal w/Weinstein, since Tarantino has final cut.)

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Its interesting to read that Brad Pitt got up in Weinsteins face after he harrassed Gwynneth P, and said "touch her again and there'll be trouble" and it seems that worked. Why didnt more men do this?

Most of them, if they even knew, didn't have Pitt's juice. And frankly he could have done more. xp

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel like another issue with Hollywood is that SO MANY people in it are motherfuckers who treat people like shit - in a sexual way or otherwise. People don't go out and denounce it because everyone is doing it.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:42 (one year ago) Permalink

well we don't know what he tried to do or didn't do...we also don't know what Paltrow told him at the time, she may have said look let's just drop it, he won't mess with me again.

i have a friend who was recently the victim of unwanted sexual advances from an acquaintance/neighbor of ours (she considered it to have stopped short of anything criminal) and when i told her i was ready to cross the street and have a conversation about it, she asked me not to. we all simply cut him out of our lives and told everyone we knew to steer clear.

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:46 (one year ago) Permalink

You're right, and it's folly to say "x/ally/whoever could have done more" on an individual level but it is galling, if not exactly surprising, that it took this long for the dam to break. As the piece I linked put it, this would not even have happened if HW still had the pull and power he used to.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Why Farrow went to the New Yorker

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nbc-harvey-weinstein-investigation_us_59dd2739e4b04fc4e1e96d08?7d5

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:50 (one year ago) Permalink

'concerns related to the story’s sourcing' lol

mookieproof, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:56 (one year ago) Permalink

jingleberries is also right, weinstein is probably one of the worst offenders but the industry is full of a lot of creeps and cheaters and abusers. this isn't specific to hollywood but it's so unregulated, there are so many people at high levels who can use their influence to get what they want to so many low level people who pretend to have influence to get what they want, or worse yet and more accurately both will TAKE what they want.

nomar, Tuesday, 10 October 2017 23:56 (one year ago) Permalink

and nobody stops them and everyone is taking notes for how theyre going to fuck everyone over when its their turn in charge

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:08 (one year ago) Permalink

The use of NDAs in all of this is scary. They seem like way too powerful a means for a rich abuser to keep individual victims from knowing about each other and building a critical mass of accusations.

jmm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:23 (one year ago) Permalink

How enforceable are NDAs when they cover criminal activity, though?

nickn, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm still flabbergasted that Trump can be recorded admitting to sexual assault, a dozen women can come forward to accuse him of it, and yet nothing happens - in fact worse than nothing happens, and the majority of white women actually vote for him. I guess Weinstein should run for president.

Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:26 (one year ago) Permalink

nomar otm, Terence Howard is on a top rated TV show every week , Casey Affleck has an Oscar, etc.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:33 (one year ago) Permalink

"Hi, Roman? Gotta place to crash?"

Harvey Weinstein Flying to Europe Tonight for Sex Addiction Rehab https://t.co/uxgQPYxTpT

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) October 10, 2017

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Good luck changing any of this on a systemic level as long as extreme wealth exists. Until then it's Whack-an-Asshole.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 00:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Lol @ whack-an-asshole

Otm tho. Shit is systemic in the industry, since its founding.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 01:49 (one year ago) Permalink

It's definitely something that happens in every industry but entertainment has a special combination of huge amounts of money and vulnerable physically attractive young people who are desperate and don't have bargaining power.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 01:52 (one year ago) Permalink

it's tragic how a nothing human like this guy can cut such a swath through a whole generation of talented actors who are left traumatized. i mean clearly some were run completely from the industry or left as a result, and some are still wrecked by it.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 01:55 (one year ago) Permalink

a special combination of huge amounts of money and vulnerable physically attractive young people who are desperate and don't have bargaining power

this is every industry. this particular manifestation is particularly horrible and upsetting but at the end of the day it's just another form of exploitation.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Undeniable, but I don’t think that post was incorrect.

circa1916, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Heather Graham has a story:

In the early 2000s Harvey Weinstein called me into his office. There was a pile of scripts sitting on his desk. “I want to put you in one of my movies,” he said and offered to let me choose which one I liked best. Later in the conversation, he mentioned that he had an agreement with his wife. He could sleep with whomever he wanted when he was out of town. I walked out of the meeting feeling uneasy. There was no explicit mention that to star in one of those films I had to sleep with him, but the subtext was there.

A few weeks later, I was asked to do a follow-up meeting at his hotel. I called one of my actress friends to explain my discomfort with the situation, and she offered to come with me. En route, she called me to say she couldn’t make it. Not wanting to be at the hotel alone with him, I made up an excuse — I had an early morning and would have to postpone. Harvey told me that my actress friend was already at his hotel and that both of them would be very disappointed if I didn’t show. I knew he was lying, so I politely and apologetically reiterated that I could no longer come by.

That was the end of that encounter — I was never hired for one of his films, and I didn’t speak up about my experience. It wasn’t until Ashley Judd heroically shared her story a few days ago that I felt ashamed. If I had spoken up a decade ago, would I have saved countless women from the same experience I had or worse?

The question — and this is not an excuse — is what defines sexual harassment in the workplace? He didn’t explicitly offer a trade — sex for work — even though I knew that was what he was implying. And I hadn’t gone to his hotel. I know this is an inner dialogue many women have — it’s part of what’s holding so many of us back from sharing our stories. We don’t want to be attacked for reading into something that may or may not have been there. We don’t want to be looked at as weak for not being able to handle ourselves in a business run by men. We don’t want to lose work by being defined as a Difficult Woman. We don’t want to be the first or only voice in the room.

My hope is that this moment starts a dialogue on redefining sexual harassment in the workplace and empowers women to speak out when they feel uncomfortable in a situation. I hope that dialogue covers the gray areas where we ask ourselves, “Did what I think happen just happen?” and that we are no longer shamed into feeling that we should grow a thicker skin, or that our story “isn’t good enough to count.” I’m glad the victims are being heard, that powerful voices in the industry are speaking up to say this kind of behavior isn’t acceptable anymore, and that a predator is finally facing the consequences — it means the world is starting to change for the better.

While I still do feel guilty for not speaking up all those years ago, I’m glad for this moment of reckoning. To the countless other women who have experienced the gray areas: I believe you.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Undeniable, but I don’t think that post was incorrect.

Not at all.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:17 (one year ago) Permalink

It happened in a firm in my niche, female friends of mine worked there (and gladly left ASAP). I don't know whether it was well known outside that firm or not but people within certainly knew and looked the other way (not referring to my female friends who didn't have much power).

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Judy Garland was molested by MGM executives in the '30s, I think.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:44 (one year ago) Permalink

this entire podcast is basically about hollywood being built on exploiting women (and its fucking excellent)

http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah i was referring specifically to hollywood, which is actually historically worse than a lot of other industries in this respect imo.

Xp

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 02:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I would guess the modelling industry is similar, but it's that combination of a field that many more want to get into than can, and the fact that they are young and attractive that makes it so prevalent.

nickn, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 03:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Joining the ranks of celebrities chiming in on the Harvey Weinstein scandal, Lindsay Lohan took to her Instagram account to give her two cents — not to speak out against the Hollywood executive, but to defend him.

She made an Instagram story saying, “I feel very bad for Harvey Weinstein right now. I don’t think it’s right what’s going on.” She added, “He’s never harmed me or did anything to me – we’ve done several movies together. I think everyone needs to stop – I think it’s wrong. So stand up.”

She also addressed Georgina Chapman, who recently announced that she is leaving Weinstein, saying that Chapman needed to “take a stand and be there for her husband.” The message was deleted soon after it was posted.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 04:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Applause for Heather Graham there - good to publicly broaden the scope of what this can look like, and the detail of HW lying about her friend being there is especially good/gross to add to the 'nothing SPECIFICALLY stated' assault / masturbation / rape accounts, that already painted a picture of his full awareness vs "the times" he grew up in.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 04:49 (one year ago) Permalink

also:

No way he flees the country, dude does not have a French passport like Polanski.

wonder if Fabrizio Lombardo has booked this rehab for him

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 04:50 (one year ago) Permalink

look, if you're gonna do PR-mandated sex rehab, you gotta do it in europe. it's just not the same in the states. everyone should do it at least once before they die, there's nothing else like it.

qualx, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 05:00 (one year ago) Permalink

personally, i took a gap year before NYU just to do PR-mandated sex rehab in amsterdam

qualx, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 05:01 (one year ago) Permalink

See, I was too poor for that. I had to have American PR-Mandated Sex Rehab.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 05:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I guess Weinstein should run for president.

Perfect way for the Democrats to beat Trump.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 09:46 (one year ago) Permalink

My dad continues to be the coolest 72-year-old Army vet I know. After I posted something on FB about this today, he posted this reply:

When I was in the Army at Ft. Leonard Wood there was a rash of sexual abuse involving female trainees and drill sergeants (DIs). All officers were told to get on top of this problem and provide their NCOs with clear cut guidance on things that were both socially taboo and against Army regulations. I got all of my DIs together for a quick briefing. I kept it simple. I asked them if they would say "good morning PVT. Joe Snuffy, what pretty blue eyes you have." They all laughed and said, "of course not, sir." To which I replied, "good, don't say it to PVT Mary Jones either." Then I went on to explain how easy it is to over reach your position of authority and I wouldn't tolerate it. Although I was the officer in charge, I had been an NCO for 12 years of my career and heard and saw plenty. They didn't know my background.

I suspect that if he ever saw someone either in the military or in his civilian career under his authority who was doing something as rancid as Weinstein, he might have skipped the talk and just beat the ever-loving shit out of them.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I know sex addiction is a real thing, but it's remarkable how many harassers/assaulters suddenly realize they have it only when they are publicly accused of harassment and assault.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

lol @ Pvt. Joe Snuffy

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Hey, don't disrespect our vets.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 16:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Ben Affleck Is Accused of Groping Actress Hilarie Burton

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

And on it goes.

I just received this statement from @Caradelevingne detailing her experience with Harvey Weinstein. Thank you, Cara. pic.twitter.com/SA1D05lYH4

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) October 11, 2017

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Grosser and grosser

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:39 (one year ago) Permalink

i want people to go harder after Page Six, check this hit piece from 2015. Four people used to try to take down the legitimate claim by Ambra Battilana Gutierrez.

https://pagesix.com/2015/03/31/model-who-accused-weinstein-of-molestation-attends-show-with-tickets-he-gave-her/?_ga=2.106979778.134139512.1507701913-1469455140.1432402142

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:41 (one year ago) Permalink

that Delevingne statement is so creepy

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah the assistant saying "you're car won't be here for a while you should go to his room". love to aid and abet sexual assault and harassment for a living.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:46 (one year ago) Permalink

but also like he obviously is so premeditated and carefully planned with his gross schemes. has the staff working on it.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Any idea which film and director she's referring to in that story?

jmm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:50 (one year ago) Permalink

It occurs to me that Weinstein didn't even have the normal idiot excuse of being a complete drunk

which is not at all an excuse, it just makes you look like a well-rounded trainwreck of a douche

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:50 (one year ago) Permalink

i believe she's talking about Tulip Fever directed by Justin Chadwick. Filmed in 2014, released in 2017.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:51 (one year ago) Permalink

and yeah, nomar otm, every fucking jackass gossip columnist who ran rape apologia pieces should get aired out

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Hope this keeps going like dominoes and we can have a Rolling thread for these people every year.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I hope it stops! The harassment, I mean, not the public stories explaining this shit

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Really kinda hope this avalanche gets Corey Feldman to come out and name the former A-listers he's been insinuating about for years now.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

go look at the twitter for two of them, Danika Fears and Mara Siegler, they're retweeting Rose McGowan and stories about how horrible Harvey Weinstein is. And they put there names on that shit I linked.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

honestly idk what to do with any of this information. like, I already knew Hollywood was a cesspool of sexist abuse (as it has been for nearly a century), and playing "whack-an-asshole" w/each one that comes up is I guess helpful in some small way but I'm a little cynical about any systemic change resulting from it.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:56 (one year ago) Permalink

the people who are always loudly claiming that industries should be meritocracies are unsurprisingly doing some victim blaming

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:58 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe if these kinds of revelations destroy enough careers predators will think twice before they harass someone - both bc they'll see the potential consequences and bc their victims will be more emboldened to speak out.

Mordy, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

“kindly remove your tweet about my client “ #rapeculture

— CEDRIC BIXLER ZAVALA (@cedricbixler_) October 11, 2017

He had alluded to the rape charges against Danny Masterson

how's life, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:00 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm not sure where the cynicism would come from, Mordy otm. i'm not sure it's helpful in a small way, i think seeing how Harvey Weinstein of all people is now a complete pariah in Hollywood will make a lot of people rethink their behavior or it will prevent it in the future.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:02 (one year ago) Permalink

lol wait how did Cedric wind up in the Weinstein thread

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Wonder how long it would take to have an effect on Japanese Idol culture.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean, it's kinda the rolling hollywood sexual abuse thread of the moment. I hadn't heard about these allegations against Masterson before.

xp

how's life, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

That Page Six story is nuts.

Her Instagram account is filled with lingerie shots from various modeling gigs, along with preachy aphorisms like “Be real and honest always” and “There is no good sex without love.”

jmm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

they used to throw "troublemakers" in sanitariums to silence them. now with the internet, not even a powerful exec can stop a story once it's gotten out. we've come a long way since the days of Francis Farmer. im a little more on the optimistic side. let's get all these stories out, shed light on this shit.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Rape accuser had had sex before, source claims (xp)

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:24 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe if these kinds of revelations destroy enough careers predators will think twice before they harass someone - both bc they'll see the potential consequences and bc their victims will be more emboldened to speak out.

I would like for men not to rape because they know they should not rape, but I suppose I would settle for men not raping because they are afraid to rape.

.oO (silby), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:30 (one year ago) Permalink

yes i would also like an enlightened state of messianic redemption when people never treat each other cruelly bc all humanity follows even basic rudimentary moral codes but until that point some pragmatic deterrents are also good

Mordy, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Imagine

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:36 (one year ago) Permalink

silby and mordy otm

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:38 (one year ago) Permalink

cedric's feed today has been quite something

imago, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:41 (one year ago) Permalink

I would like a more equal society where the massive power imbalances that breed craven exploitation are no longer even legal but y'know that's me

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:42 (one year ago) Permalink

There was a grisly Mair interview earlier, with a Brit producer who has worked with HW on multiple movies. He turned up at a private work related screening of In The Cut she was at and instructed the projectionist to FF to the "part where Meg Ryan gets her tits out" and then proceeded to jerk off in the seat behind her is the gist of her story. When I say private, she was the only person present apart from the projectionist.

calzino, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:44 (one year ago) Permalink

http://www.scarymommy.com/sexual-harassment-how-not-be-accused/

While navigating professional relationships can often require that dreaded thing known as “any amount of work at all,” there is hope. You see, by following this one simple rule, you, too, can interact with women as people.

It’s as clear-cut as this: Treat all women like you would treat Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson...
...

Oh shoot! She’s pretty! In the face, even. What to do?! I mean, you know it’d be inappropriate to treat the coffee meeting as a date since her clearly stated intentions were professional. But on the other hand, she’s blonde, and so was your last girlfriend! This is so confusing! What a minefield you are in.

But navigating this sticky situation can be made easy by employing The Rock Test. Close your eyes, take a deep breath, and when you open them, pretend Karen looks like this: (picture of The Rock)

Wow! Karen looks pretty tough and strong and sweaty! She looks like a person who is working very hard to achieve her goals, having left behind a situation that clearly wasn’t working, headed for bigger and better things. Maybe ask her about that? But definitely don’t hit on her. It looks like she could kill you with the chair you’re sitting on.

Conic section rebellion 44 (in orbit), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:45 (one year ago) Permalink

thing is, the terry crews stuff obviates that

imago, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

@imago - what is Cedric's connection to all this? his wife?

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't think all harassers are as bold or view themselves as powerful as one that'd harass Terry Crews

mh, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

cedric appears to have recently escaped a certain religious institution/cult

imago, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

wtf

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Producer interviewed by Mair and just now on C4 is Alison Owen, who is Lily Allen’s mum. She said that she never had a firsthand account of HW’s antics, and even though she found him gross at that private screening, nothing he did in her presence was call-the-police actionable, and all the stories people shared were FOFish and basically hearsay.

kim jong deal (suzy), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Whoa I just looked at Cedric's twitter - glad that he's still with his wife, but distressed nonetheless that they're being harassed by Scientologists. Hope he's right about dominoes continuing to fall. LOL'd at this:

Here we have LRH trying to audit the compulsion to rape out of a fucking tomato. Poor tomato must have raped in a past life. Not its fault pic.twitter.com/K2G03sA0Mb

— CEDRIC BIXLER ZAVALA (@cedricbixler_) October 11, 2017

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:00 (one year ago) Permalink

also important:

the lead in this beloved series is a Scientologist who turns a blind eye to the abuses of her own church. She is “of David”. Miscavige. pic.twitter.com/A5aexhyIsD

— CEDRIC BIXLER ZAVALA (@cedricbixler_) October 11, 2017

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:00 (one year ago) Permalink

all the stories people shared were FOFish and basically hearsay.

FOFish as in 'fact or fake'?

soref, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Fertile. Of Fred.

how's life, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Friends of friends.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:07 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck yah cedric

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Can't wait for when Scientology eventually, finally goes down

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

A profile in courage

pic.twitter.com/z8cyxrd693

— Seth MacFarlane (@SethMacFarlane) October 11, 2017

As someone just said in response, "you opened the oscar's that year by forcing a famous gay men's chorus to sing "i saw your boobs""

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

I hate SM so much, way to use this to give yourself a pat on the back you useless unfunny fuck

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

"Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."

Yeah, definitely a hard swing and not any kind of trivialization of the issue.

jmm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Everybody's just rushing to their time machines to condemn Harvey Weinstein

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Except highbrow critics, who have been there since Kiarostami's Through the Olive Trees got buried.

Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 19:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Lmao yeah right some “hard swing”

a hard swing = what rose mcgowan has been doing for years. it’s not a fucking joke. If you want to attack someone or bring them to justice just fucking say it.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

"Congratulations, you five ladies no longer have to pretend to be attracted to Harvey Weinstein."

we can probably assume harvey weinstein found this joke titillating

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Would be incredible if someone made an accusation at an awards ceremony.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

that's the weakest swing at Weinstein imaginable. out of context it also twists it around to where the women are putting themselves out there, rather than having someone force himself upon them.

nomar, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Otm. also, yea it would be incredible & extremely unlikely anyone would make an accusation at the Oscars. I’m saying if he actually wanted to attack HW bc he “loathed” him so much, he could’ve made a statement. like, before the story broke

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

How is that unlikely? Half of all moviewood is infected with this shit. This is bound to come up, despite yr Murican 'Oscars are a show don't ruin it w/ politics or sexual misdemeanor'. It will come up, if only by the 'comic' presenting it. And however bad those comics are, it should come up. It needs to be mentioned. There is no alternative.

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Comic=comedian, soz

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Lol im definitely not in the “keep politics out of the Oscars” camp, I’m just saying it’s highly unlikely, & certainly was in 2013

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:58 (one year ago) Permalink

I agree this has opened the floodgates & there will be much “atoning” in a few months at the globes, Oscars, etc

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 20:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't think he was obligated to make a direct accusation at the Oscars, particularly if Barth wasn't willing. But I don't think his joke did anything to help either.

jmm, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 21:02 (one year ago) Permalink

"Police Respond To 911 Call From Harvey Weinstein's Daughter, Who Reportedly Said Her Father Was Suicidal"

http://laist.com/2017/10/11/weinstein_police_911.php

nickn, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

;_;

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

That's rough. Calling your daughter "Remy" is equally rough though tbh.

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

why?

flappy bird, Wednesday, 11 October 2017 22:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Rose M. bringing receipts re: Bob Weinstein and LiLo

Anonymously sent to me. They all knew. It starts here. pic.twitter.com/24s1LRTDxk

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 11, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Bob was doing it too? Or abetting Harvey? Confused

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:08 (one year ago) Permalink

seems like he may have been abetting

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:11 (one year ago) Permalink

🤢

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:13 (one year ago) Permalink

The context of that email was LiLo's agent contacting her to meet w/Bob in a hotel room regarding a cameo in one of the Scream movies. The response:

Bob Weinstein is a POS. They allllll knew. pic.twitter.com/zWJZf52ywq

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 11, 2017



Then she tweeted this:

Please go easy on Lindsay Lohan. Being a child actor turned sex symbol twists the brain in ways you can’t comprehend.

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 11, 2017

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:15 (one year ago) Permalink

i am so moved by the women coming forward to tell their stories

he is not just a creep he is a powerful, physically intimidating and volatile creep who is using ALL of his available faculties against women

Asia Argento’s story got to me, bc it shows the complexities of abuse and that this kind of abuse in the workplace is not only “one & done”, never again for women. You still have a life, you may still work with or for these creeps. And for those creeps the debasement & humiliation is how they *initiate* relationships. It starts with sexual abuse & harassment and CONTINUES with increased power & overtures and acting as though nothing has happened til these women are just numb and emotionally worn down like stones on the beach because it takes so much energy to be on high alert.

It is oft repeated & bears repeating always that I and millions of women have heard and/or experienced stories like this our whole life.

But to hear a story like Asia’s, or any woman’s and to to judge them as anything *other* than brave is a) mystifying & b) upsetting

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:36 (one year ago) Permalink

just the stories about how they had to literally escape the room, it's horrifying. he's a fucking monster.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:38 (one year ago) Permalink

if he decides to eat a bullet I'll feel for his kids but otherwise won't shed a single tear

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:44 (one year ago) Permalink

co-sign. he's nothing but a symbol for systemic rot but no mourning involved

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:48 (one year ago) Permalink

No way he'll eat a bullet, though, at most he'll move to Europe and live lavishly for a long time.

nickn, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:49 (one year ago) Permalink

yup

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:49 (one year ago) Permalink

he's too much of a pussy to do it

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:50 (one year ago) Permalink

not a great place we're going here

qualx, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:51 (one year ago) Permalink

enh

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:52 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't know that I'd even feel for his kids. Hard to imagine a person like this as any kind of decent father.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

je ne regrette pas rien

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

i don't care about harvey weinstein's mental wellbeing but "too much of a pussy to commit suicide" is... not a thing that needs to be said in any context

qualx, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:57 (one year ago) Permalink

all I can say is that if men ever feel kind of weird or skeevy about their own behavior around women, tell them to *ask a woman*

there were so many weird attitudes that I heard, from my peers and older men, that were just an ongoing generational misogyny

and honestly I feel like hollywood, which should not be like this (and it doesn’t excuse any behavior at all), is exactly that system.

mh, Thursday, 12 October 2017 01:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah can we please stop with the suicide BS.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Thursday, 12 October 2017 02:05 (one year ago) Permalink

The Argento story has been fucking me up.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 12 October 2017 02:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Well guess who decided to say some things.

"I didn’t stand in Georgina’s way when we discussed a separation, I encouraged her to do what was in her heart" https://t.co/ZKLyQRNNis

— Page Six (@PageSix) October 12, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 October 2017 03:24 (one year ago) Permalink

You think you're gonna take her away
with your assault charges and your Rogaine

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 12 October 2017 03:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Is his crisis comms strike squad not telling him to stop talking

.oO (silby), Thursday, 12 October 2017 03:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Emily Smith is garbage

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 03:27 (one year ago) Permalink

lol he literally went to page six

qualx, Thursday, 12 October 2017 03:54 (one year ago) Permalink

There's something so disturbing about him affecting this faux-enlightened "if you love somebody set them free" attitude when he literally forcibly detained women.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:01 (one year ago) Permalink

it'd be helpful if everyone ignored the swine's damage control attempts

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:04 (one year ago) Permalink

It is oft repeated & bears repeating always that I and millions of women have heard and/or experienced stories like this our whole life.
yup, thank you for saying it VG

i'd also like to promote the idea of using the word predator in lieu of creep
creep is mushy, shapeless -- no one wants to be one but it's difficult (impossible) to properly define (unless you define it as "someone who violates consent in objectifying or interacting with people" which is the way I define it)
predator is more accurate, stings harder, sticks longer, and might change the way we think about the way we interact with each other
that's my hope at least

a creep is just a delusional predator
so let's just call them predators

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:12 (one year ago) Permalink

predator it is then

:)

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:23 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck bret stephens forever

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:24 (one year ago) Permalink

NYT really getting the most out of their hate read columnists these days

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:31 (one year ago) Permalink

ok i'll stick to a few particularly stupid sentences from that column

Perhaps it should come as no surprise that an industry built around pretended characters and scenarios could have pretended for so long that nothing was amiss. Perhaps it should be no surprise, either, that its concept of ethics is every bit as ersatz and inconstant as most everything else in Tinseltown.

same thing happened at Fox News, Penn State, BBC, & the Catholic Church.

The outrage over Mr. Weinstein also has a whiff of opportunism. In recent years, notes New York magazine’s Rebecca Traister, Weinstein has “lost power in the movie industry” and is no longer “the indie mogul who could make or break an actor’s Oscar chances.” Lame horses get shot.

??... the paper you write for "shot" Weinstein. he wouldn't have been fired if not for that story and Hollywood wouldn't have abandoned him.

The important truth is that he was just another libidinous cad in a libertine culture that long ago dispensed with most notions of personal restraint and gentlemanly behavior. “I came of age in the ’60s and ’70s, when all the rules about behavior and workplaces were different,” Weinstein wrote in his mea culpa to The Times last week. “That was the culture then.”

That line was roundly mocked, but it contains its truth.

no it doesn't idiot

Hyenas cannot help their own nature. But the work of a morally sentient society is to prevent them from taking over the savannah.

holy shit lmao

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:38 (one year ago) Permalink

they might as well have given Weinstein a guest crack at the op-ed page

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 04:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Weinstein accuser Rose McGowan's Twitter account suspended

fuck you twitter! there is a fucking asshole i see that tweets hate daily, try pulling his fucking account you fucks !

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:07 (one year ago) Permalink

i thought the bar was somewhere above threatening nuclear war with North Korea

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Seriously, that was my first reaction. McGowan gets temp banned for taking a stand against serial abusers, but serial abuser in chief gets a pass? Fuck twitter.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow, are you fucking kidding me? Yeah, Twitter needs to be obliterated.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Twitter needs to be obliterated nationalized.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:27 (one year ago) Permalink

The AV Club OTM here:

“It’s not clear which specific one of the actress’ tweets was targeted and reported to Twitter, and was apparently so offensive that the company decided it’d be a good idea to silence a woman at the heart of an entire scandal based around women being hushed-up and ignored.”

Position Position, Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:28 (one year ago) Permalink

My guess (because I think this is how it works) is that enough people aggressively flagged her that the twitter robot acted. But that is bullshit, anyway. Twitter is a bunch of craven, capricious asshole hypocrites, like the rest.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Goddamn. It happened after she said fuck you to ben Affleck it seems (link

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:29 (one year ago) Permalink

JiC, that's my guess as well. Which is vile.

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 October 2017 13:29 (one year ago) Permalink

If Huff Post's reporting is correct, this is a very serious matter for NBC— and for all NBC journalists. https://t.co/pwc6XSnzKO pic.twitter.com/wZMQo9PptM

— Jay Rosen (@jayrosen_nyu) October 12, 2017

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Lol did he just figure out this was very serious

Also since Twitter is clearly absolute garbage why is literally everyone still using it constantly

El Tomboto, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:14 (one year ago) Permalink

twitter is the worst. you won't find me on there! the world must live without my tweeting.

i really hope harvey goes to jail.

scott seward, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:28 (one year ago) Permalink

twitter has its uses but it's hopelessly managed

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:29 (one year ago) Permalink

though not looking forward to horrible courtroom coverage. with harvey in a wheelchair and a neck brace. gotta have the wheelchair and the neck brace.

scott seward, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:30 (one year ago) Permalink

From that HuffPo piece:

“Saturday Night Live” executive producer Lorne Michaels was criticized for not including any Weinstein jokes

I get the NBC entanglement but this is just silly. SNL now compelled to make specific jokes?

dinnerboat, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:30 (one year ago) Permalink

The fuck? If anything it would be in poor taste to include "Weinstein jokes." "Weinstein jokes" are part of the problem.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Also, this broke last Thursday. Two days isn't a lot of lead time to come up with funny women-being- raped/abused sketches.

President Keyes, Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:36 (one year ago) Permalink

The angle was dumb but LM's "it's a New York thing" was a predictably horrible response

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 14:40 (one year ago) Permalink

Wtf @ twitter banning McGowan. they really do have shit management. It has to be that flag bot, otherwise I don’t get it - rationale for keeping her on is same as keeping Trump on: more clicks/attention

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

If it was a flag bot (was she getting more flags than Trump? idk), they ought to have been able to unsuspend her by now.

jmm, Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:32 (one year ago) Permalink

aside but I've been seeing a lot of people lately posting about being temp-banned from facebook for violating "community standards" for stuff like calling out racism or posting a racist flyer that they received (in order to call it out). We're basically watching AI try to learn what is offensive, and in some cases that AI is people like Mark Zuckerberg.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Probably was a lawsuit threat.

Eazy, Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:35 (one year ago) Permalink

It could have even been her much-quoted tweet about her film being distributed "by my rapist." Especially with Weinstein's legal team.

Eazy, Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah that seems possible.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:40 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm seeing that she tweeted out some phone numbers and then deleted them?

President Keyes, Thursday, 12 October 2017 15:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Kate Beckinsale stepped forward today, said Weinstein was a bit inappropriate w/her when she was 17, then years later actually asked her if he'd done anything w/her at that time, bc he basically forgot whether or not he'd tried to assault her i guess?

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

damn
not surprising at all though

i'm sure most of the people who do this forget that/whether they did it or not. denial etc.
from a personal perspective, i'm pretty sure there aren't a bunch of men out there remembering me, but i sure remember them.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:30 (one year ago) Permalink

the classic Max Ophuls film Letter from an Unknown Woman is relevant on this point

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:32 (one year ago) Permalink

this is maybe going to sound incredibly dumb, i'm not trying to be #notallmen or #reversepence, but these days i just don't like to hang out with a group of dudes for a night out, or a party that's all men, etc...the energy weirds me out a lot of the time. most of my friends these days all are couples and we hang out as such, but i have other male friends who will just socialize with THA BOYS and i find when i join them that the conversations just go places i'm not comfortable with a lot of the time, or the vibe is just weird, the balance is all off, etc. i don't like the "men's club" feeling. i don't know.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:39 (one year ago) Permalink

agree

mookieproof, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I totally feel you. I am generally averse to 'dude hangs', particularly 'white dude hangs'. Speaking as a white dude, no demographic is more likely to creep me out than other white dudes.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:43 (one year ago) Permalink

same

brimstead, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:44 (one year ago) Permalink

I think the only time I'm in that situation is at band rehearsal but we aren't all white and we aren't all male so it's only intermittently when there's just a subset of us there. idk it doesn't bother me, there's no assholes in the band lol

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Just don't hang out with assholes imo.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

the classic Max Ophuls film Letter from an Unknown Woman is relevant on this point

Did you see the cuts Harvey demanded?

Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

"That's locker room."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

men who feel the need to exclude women aren't usually up to anything worthwhile ime

where does the conversation go that makes you uncomfortable? i'll admit to being curious.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:48 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean, IDK I haven't had that experience so much. I don't hang out with anyone that much these days, but I get together with a group of guys to play music and it's mostly just talk about music, being a dad, work sucks, and maybe football in which case I tune out.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Seems like a thread derail anyway.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

men who feel the need to exclude women aren't usually up to anything worthwhile ime

yeah I think this is the real issue

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:50 (one year ago) Permalink

I really hate the idea of stag weekends

good art is orange; great art is teal (wins), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:51 (one year ago) Permalink

in the future they will figure out a way to lower testosterone in unborn male fetuses. or something like that. i'm an optimist! #scifireader

scott seward, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:51 (one year ago) Permalink

the company i work for has a large salesforce of mostly men . they come into the office from all over the country for training and meetings and want to go out in the City while they are here . I only went once and never again , the worst part was that most of them are married but when they come here it's like they are on some fucking weied free for all, it's horrible .

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:52 (one year ago) Permalink

that's disgusting ^^^

it's not the testosterone -- it's the culture
we can change it if we try. y'all have kids. time to destroy the fratriarchy :)

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:54 (one year ago) Permalink

I have a great core of friends, no assholes, but one of them keeps gravitating toward these sort of fratty activities. For example, he had his 40th birthday in Vegas, and my wife and were all, who actually does this? (So we decided not to go, since Vegas sucks - sorry, Vegas). The other week he made this half suggestion that we go back, but he added "and this time it should be just the guys!" And another friend of mine basically looked at him funny and said, "why? I like having my wife around." Which is to say I think some guys, even not assholes, sometimes get it in their head that they should do guy things in the most cliched guy way possible, and when a group of dudes, even good dudes, get that in their head, things can escalate into assholetry.

Or, like a different friend around the backyard fire pit the other night, actually take out his acoustic guitar and start strumming (and singing!) rudimentary classic rock songs. Don't do that either!

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 16:54 (one year ago) Permalink

^^Harvey would have been a lot better off if he'd just done that tho.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah that's my attitude to stag parties, just complete befuddlement. "A pre-wedding party, but no women allowed!" Lol what, no, that sounds fucking terrible and dumb. Where are we going, your treehouse?

good art is orange; great art is teal (wins), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:00 (one year ago) Permalink

The only all-male context I have in my life right now revolves around the alumni group for my all-male college chorus and even there enough of the guys are married to women that it's rare to have a meetup that is actually all male. (We do have an alumni chorus gig every two years, alternating between West Coast US and Japan, where the rehearsals are all-male but we are also in the middle of an activity so there's no real opportunity for things to go super gross.)

I will say that as a straight guy in this context, there is apparently some intragroup harassment that completely bypasses me; one issue that we've had in getting younger alums involved is apparently a core group of guys in their 60s-70s who make a habit of trying to prey on anyone under 30 who shows up. I knew nothing about this until one of my friends told me some stories about rescue missions he and his partner have gone on to keep things above board.

xp: lol, my wife had her 40th in Vegas, as did one of the guys I mentioned who was cockblocking old predators on the last alumni chorus trip.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:00 (one year ago) Permalink

"we can change it if we try. y'all have kids. time to destroy the fratriarchy"

my kids were lucky enough to go to a really kind/loving/progressive school during their formative years and it totally helped form them in a really positive way. they are very quick to cry foul if they see/hear anything unfair/sexist/racist. not everyone gets that opportunity. i wish i'd had that!

scott seward, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

a core group of guys in their 60s-70s who make a habit of trying to prey on anyone under 30 who shows up.

as someone who used to attend an LGBT church (overwhelmingly white men), this is not an unfamiliar phenomenon to me

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:03 (one year ago) Permalink

I wholly reject the notion that ending toxic masculinity requires men not hanging out in groups together, that seems silly. I've had great groups of male friends where no such toxicity existed. But I'm all for ending what-happens-in-vegas style weekends and frat culture and the like. And there is definitely something to the idea that "good" guys will feel pressured to act in a certain guy way when in these situations. I was at an all-guy work dinner recently that got very close to crossing some lines, but thankfully a senior mgmt guy read the situation and was like "Ok, it's time to go."

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

so happy i don't know what a "stag party" is and have to guess

and yeah i have/have had a lot of friends who are extremely "the boys" mentality. i.e. daydrinking & playing Xbox & doing blow. shit is dark. it's so stupid

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:05 (one year ago) Permalink

La Lechera -- i guess it's that the conversations turn towards talking about women a lot or relationships in a way that feels a bit retrograde, there's always going to be a bit of that type of flirting w/servers that makes me feel like i'm with a bunch of embarrassing uncles, and it feels kind of gloomy for some reason in a very existential dude way. i can't really explain that latter part, it's more an overall feeling i have. that's probably not a great answer.

it differs from other friends where the couples will hang out and it's just fun and easy and no one has any hangups about the lack of dude nights in that particular circle. though there are times when i'll go hang out with one of those dudes. we just don't get all together as a group to visit the secret world of men, away from the women!

we have a son, and his two oldest friends are girls. and i think that's been more helpful than any advice i could give him. i think he's weirded out by dude energy too, maybe. it's good to err on the side of caution!

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:06 (one year ago) Permalink

as someone who used to attend an LGBT church (overwhelmingly white men), this is not an unfamiliar phenomenon to me

As someone who used to host trivia in the only gay bar in town that attracted a 55+ clientele, me neither. The difference here, though, is that these men were not in positions of power, comparatively speaking. Not excusing, just observing.

Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Stag party = bachelor party. If they don't have those where you are, hopefully you can guess from "pre-wedding party for men" xp

good art is orange; great art is teal (wins), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

xxxxp yeah man alive otm, ya gotta call em as ya see em. Shit is pretty widespread though. I didn't go to college, but a lot of the friends I was referring to above went to art school. "the boys" / frat mentality extends way beyond actual frats.

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I wholly reject the notion that ending toxic masculinity requires men not hanging out in groups together, that seems silly. I've had great groups of male friends where no such toxicity existed. But I'm all for ending what-happens-in-vegas style weekends and frat culture and the like. And there is definitely something to the idea that "good" guys will feel pressured to act in a certain guy way when in these situations. I was at an all-guy work dinner recently that got very close to crossing some lines, but thankfully a senior mgmt guy read the situation and was like "Ok, it's time to go."

― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, October 12, 2017 6:04 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

for the record i'm not suggesting that but then again if men really never hung out in groups that were exclusively men...hmm

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:08 (one year ago) Permalink

I feel you, man alive, inasmuch as I have male friends (that I've known 15-20 years and who can comfortably hang out with like my mom) I can chill with as a group of just guys, so I don't condemn the practice in and of itself as much as I personally generally avoid it because the majority of my creepiest hangs have been dude-exclusive.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

The difference here, though, is that these men were not in positions of power, comparatively speaking. Not excusing, just observing.

A detail I'm leaving out is that the people I'm talking about are all on the board of our alumni organization.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

There’s also work-related male hangouts before or after meetings where the women who don’t go/aren’t invited are not given career breaks or don’t get bondy face time with superiors.

kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:09 (one year ago) Permalink

This should probably be a separate thread, huh.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

There's no "power" per se as far as other alumni are concerned but we do make decisions that affect the current students' abilities to tour, etc.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah, where can we move this discussion?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

some kind of NO GIRLS clubhouse

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Rolling Tree House Thread 2017

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7uzgOdO0lw

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

?!?!

"the boys" / frat mentality extends way beyond actual frats.
otm
i foolishly thought if i stayed away from broey fratty people, i could escape it. wrong!

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

yea i agree w/ man alive. probably a better thread for all this btw but whatever

i was extremely averse to all-male situations after going to a boys' catholic high school which was frequently toxic, homophobic, misogynist, crude, awful. after that experience, when i went to college i sought out friendships mostly with women, and i now work in a profession that is 80% women.

but eventually i've found great value in cultivating close, intimate friendships with other men and that sometimes that intimacy can be facilitated by male-only environments. they don't have to be toxic.

in the past decade, i've been part of a few all-male things, all of which have been super healthy, positive, and rewarding, and have never gone into that kind of toxic gross shit mentioned itt: 1) a men's group to talk about healthy sexuality in the context of being a man; 2) a regular "dad's night out" for special needs dads (mostly autism parents) organized by a local autism/special needs non-profit; 3) a regular friday night group w/ some of my childhood male friends, mostly we talk about music, politics, food, art, film, sex too but ime some men are able to talk about sex without being fratty creeps.

though i have talked to male friends and family members that work in male-dominated professions and tbh it sounds fucking horrible

marcos, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Rolling No Girls Allowed Treehouse Thread (All Gender Identities Welcome)

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:16 (one year ago) Permalink

that's exactly what bob pollard said
"no girls in the treehouse"

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I could've sworn there was already some "masculinity" thread

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:19 (one year ago) Permalink

i would like to add, perhaps relevant to this thread, that my bad-vibes groups are men who work in the entertainment industry. not all of them are these bad dudes, most are not, but the conversations which wind up occurring are often...not the greatest.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:19 (one year ago) Permalink

there's a few xp

plus like...... most of ilx sadly

marcos, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:19 (one year ago) Permalink

lol, my wife had her 40th in Vegas

Ha! Well, women do their own shit in groups, but defending this from afar, I doubt large groups of women get together and turn into assholes the way men often do. Or at least certainly not the same way.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I doubt large groups of women get together and turn into assholes

lol sometimes I think there is nothing more terrifying than a gang of 10yo girls, the level of real emotional cruelty can just be insane

we're wandering rather far afield here...

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:23 (one year ago) Permalink

(ftr my wife made me go to Vegas with her for her 30th birthday - it was just us though. also I hated almost every second of it apart from the Star Trek experience thing)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Don't get me started on kids.

BTW, per "locker room," back when the Access Hollywood tapes came out, the same friend who was anti-"dudes only!" in Vegas didn't defend Trump but did observe that the shit he was saying wasn't that different from the shit any one of us (guys) might say in private. My first thought was, not me! But my second thought was that I at least understood what he was talking about. One man's ironic quip ...

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:25 (one year ago) Permalink

The last time I was in Vegas, for a wedding (bride was from Vegas), was actually fine, but after that my wife and I basically breathed a sigh that we would never have to go to Vegas again.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Bourdain is ready to kill someone i think, he has been going hard after Weinstein and wants to also nail those who helped him along the way. Meanwhile there are a lot of people on his twitter feed going after him for not speaking up sooner (or speaking up about things like CNN hiring Lewandowski, or because he had Nugent on his show.) I mean i guess?? considering his gf was raped by Harvey Weinstein i'd personally be willing to let all that slide or not even think about it!

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:48 (one year ago) Permalink

wait waht who is Bourdain's gf now? (I know he separated from his wife awhile ago)

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:55 (one year ago) Permalink

I work in teh cyberz, I'm fucked if I can't get along with a room full of white dudes around my age.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Asia Argento xp

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:57 (one year ago) Permalink

enjoyed reading a bunch of ilm posters say how uncomfortable they were in overly-male spaces

ogmor, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:19 (one year ago) Permalink

lol

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:21 (one year ago) Permalink

LOOOOOOOL
me too

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I didn't know Anthony Bourdain is married to Asia Argento! That explains a lot.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:26 (one year ago) Permalink

sorry gf

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink

xposts Yes, I recognize the irony of that discussion, but ILX is as butch as it gets for me. And I wish lots more non-dudes posted here.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Bourdain is ready to kill someone i think, he has been going hard after Weinstein and wants to also nail those who helped him along the way. Meanwhile there are a lot of people on his twitter feed going after him for not speaking up sooner (or speaking up about things like CNN hiring Lewandowski, or because he had Nugent on his show.) I mean i guess?? considering his gf was raped by Harvey Weinstein i'd personally be willing to let all that slide or not even think about it!

― nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 17:48 (forty-three minutes ago) Permalink

Well yeah, and I also think you have to defer to the victim on whether to speak out or not, no?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Like if it happened to someone I know, I don't think they would want me coming forward without their approval?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink

if she is his gf, i'd imagine he has her approval? i agree it's kind of embarrassing but a few short years ago people were still using the term save-a-__ when men stood up against piggish behavior so every bit of progress helps.

i am not a dude fyi for anyone unclear

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:36 (one year ago) Permalink

i've long cherished the black and white blankness of ilx as a place i can exist without having to announce that but i felt it was worth noting under these circumstances

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

No I mean in re the people criticizing him for not speaking out sooner. I assume if his wife said "please speak out about this" sooner he would have?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

oh ok
i don't follow the criticism of the criticism -- that's too much for me to follow. i only have energy to fight the real enemy and that is not "the timing of anthony bourdain".

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Yes, your presence as a non-dude ILXor is def noted and valued, LL.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

And I wish lots more non-dudes posted here.

They did. Oddly enough, a number of them got a lot of shit and felt like they needed to leave.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:41 (one year ago) Permalink

100% agree, i think i mentioned how jessica chastain on twitter said she had known about Weinstein for years and warned other women in the industry to steer clear. someone (of course they did, bc it's twitter) went after her for not coming forward and she said it was up to them to step forward or give permission to talk about it.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:41 (one year ago) Permalink

A spokesperson from Twitter confirms that it put limits on McGowan's account because she tweeted a phone number:

We have been in touch with Ms. McGowan's team. We want to explain that her account was temporarily locked because one of her Tweets included a private phone number, which violates of our Terms of Service. The Tweet was removed and her account has been unlocked. We will be clearer about these policies and decisions in the future.

President Keyes, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:43 (one year ago) Permalink

save-a-__

wait, what is this LL?

flappy bird, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

jessica chastain otm

__ = ho iirc? sometimes replaced with another word but i thought that was the original usage.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

check out E-40 discography

President Keyes, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

smh that the ilx goons haven't done enough to put everyone on game to forty water by now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7vQSPBtwyc

sic And Mordy’s worst fans don’t deserve sic And Mordy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

They did. Oddly enough, a number of them got a lot of shit and felt like they needed to leave.

yah looking back on the noize dude era of the board is something i look back on and regret being apart of regularly

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Meantime, Ms. McGowan to Twitter

when will nuclear war violate your terms of service? https://t.co/72FiiyoZ59

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 12, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

thought is was captain save-a-luna

(•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

i think it's great that behind the scenes in Hollywood you had all these women banding together to help each other out and steer each other clear of a predator, though obviously not as great as the scenario where a predator was never allowed to roam free and enlist all kinds of help to cover up his crimes.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: people should never forget the names of those in the media who helped smear Weinstein's accusers. god knows how many of these women chose not to step forward because of the attacks in the press.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

smh that the ilx goons

ilx goons are an echo chamber

Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

re: the Kate Beckinsale story, this is the full one:

I was called to meet Harvey Weinstein at the Savoy Hotel when I was 17. I assumed it would be in a conference room which was very common.When I arrived ,reception told me to go to his room . He opened the door in his bathrobe . I was incredibly naive and young and it did not cross my mind that this older ,unattractive man would expect me to have any sexual interest in him .After declining alcohol and announcing that I had school in the morning I left ,uneasy but unscathed.A few years later he asked me if he had tried anything with me in that first meeting .I realized he couldn't remember if he had assaulted me or not .I had what I thought were boundaries - I said no to him professionally many times over the years-some of which ended up with him screaming at me calling me a cunt and making threats, some of which made him laughingly tell people oh "Kate lives to say no to me ." It speaks to the status quo in this business that I was aware that standing up for myself and saying no to things,while it did allow me to feel uncompromised in myself,undoubtedly harmed my career and was never something I felt supported by anyone other than my family.I would like to applaud the women who have come forward , and to pledge that we can from this create a new paradigm where producers,managers,executives and assistants and everyone who has in the past shrugged and said " well, that's just Harvey /Mr X/insert name here " will realize that we in numbers can affect real change.For every moment like this there have been thousands where a vulnerable person has confided outrageous unprofessional behavior and found they have no recourse, due to an atmosphere of fear that it seems almost everyone has been living in .I had a male friend who, based on my experience,warned a young actress who said she was going to dinner with Harvey to be careful. He received a phone call the next day saying he would never work in another Miramax film ;the girl was already sleeping with Harvey and had told him that my friend had warned her off.Let's stop allowing our young women to be sexual cannon fodder,and let's remember that Harvey is an emblem of a system that is sick,and that we have work to do.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:25 (one year ago) Permalink

she never did work on a Harvey Weinstein production afaict, with the sole exception of The Aviator (like Brad Pitt w/Tarantino, maybe bc she wouldn't have to deal with him, or inversely maybe because he couldn't tell Scorsese not to hire here?)

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I had a male friend who, based on my experience,warned a young actress who said she was going to dinner with Harvey to be careful. He received a phone call the next day saying he would never work in another Miramax film ;the girl was already sleeping with Harvey and had told him that my friend had warned her off.

JFC, "hey I know I fucked up but those were different times, it was totally normal for people to blacklist anyone who interfered with their habitual rape back then"

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:45 (one year ago) Permalink

like the complete bullshit of his "apology" just becomes more and more disturbing with every detail I read. "Aw shucks I guess I'll talk to a therapist and donate some money for gun control."

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:46 (one year ago) Permalink

his half-assed video apology today (to a camera crew):

Harvey Weinstein, in his first public response since multiple women accused him of sexual misconduct, said “we all make mistakes."

“Guys, I’m not doing OK, but I’m trying,” Weinstein told reporters on Wednesday as he entered an SUV parked outside his daughter’s Los Angeles home.

“I got to get help,” the former film executive said.

“A second chance, I hope,” Weinstein, 65, added.

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

...what

.@PageSixEmily says Weinstein told her he'll be back in a year w/new financial backing & winning Oscars againhttps://t.co/0H4eMlW3Qr

— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) October 12, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

He’s not sorry - he’s just sorry he got caught.

kim jong deal (suzy), Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Otm.

Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 12 October 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Emily Smith, ever so slightly trying to dodge her complicity there

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

my feeling is that it’s not enough to cut at W himself.
it’s good, and the outpouring is incredible...but i want to see someone cut at the support network. name those other names of the ppl who operate solely on the knowledge that they will never be named... get those floodlights into EVERY dark unknowable corner, not just where the ogre lives

it’ll never happen but it should. don’t just chop down the tree. dig up the roots, burn the ground & salt the earth

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Honestly getting sick of people deflecting to Trump in the responses to this. Trump didn't invent sexual assault, and yeah I get the point that it says something that a man like that can become president, but there are a lot of other predators out there.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

VG otmfm. SO MANY MOTHERFUCKERS not only had firsthand knowledge of the shit as it happened, but actively and knowingly facilitated (and ultimately encouraged) it.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:28 (one year ago) Permalink

i'm still in a righteous fury about all of those NY Post hacks who put their names on those hit pieces. name and shame them all, never forget!!

nomar, Thursday, 12 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

this story pisses me off so much. fuck the career hacks. fuck NBC. fuck Batman, what a piece of shit enabler. fuck Twitter too obv but i always felt that way. it was weird as heck when one year every news channel suddenly decided, oh yeah, this is news now, let's ask what HobbitFan420 thinks of the Syrian invasion.

Rose McGowan is my new hero. she deserves to be Batman more than that lying piece of shit.

this whole thing sucks but it's also good to be able to have this stuff out in the open, now it is public knowledge, these scumbags can't hide anymore. predatory misogyny has gone on for a loooong time, shielded by so many systems and power structures, all over the world. we are seeing the cracks in that facade. burn it to the ground.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Affleck has always been bro culture boiled down into single man form.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 12 October 2017 21:55 (one year ago) Permalink

it's part of why he was perfect as Old Asshole Batman

Nhex, Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:01 (one year ago) Permalink

not defending him on this issue, but he did attack Bill maher and that other guy for being anti-Muslim on Maher's show

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:04 (one year ago) Permalink

figured that was a foregone conclusion

akm, Thursday, 12 October 2017 23:31 (one year ago) Permalink

i mean, she basically already said that when she said "my ex sold my movie to my rapist"

akm, Thursday, 12 October 2017 23:31 (one year ago) Permalink

pic.twitter.com/xMdoA8fvDx

— Ryan Gosling (@RyanGosling) October 12, 2017

you could at least do us the courtesy of saying our names https://t.co/IJEBkdopHV

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 12, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 October 2017 23:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah I find a lot of these public "solidarity" statements to read more like preemptive self-exculpations.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 00:13 (one year ago) Permalink

bla bla bla #notallmen and so on basically.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 13 October 2017 00:16 (one year ago) Permalink

The more I'm reading of all this the angrier I'm getting. None of these men said jack shit and they all knew.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 13 October 2017 00:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Eh, Affleck has also done (terrible) comedy Arab terrorist accents on late night shows. And I am convinced a blind item I read about a Hollywood leading man beat his wife was about him and Jennifer Garner. but even if that’s not true, he’s gross.

horseshoe, Friday, 13 October 2017 00:27 (one year ago) Permalink

It just rings really weird also to make a public statement to the effect of "Im sorry that I didn't know. "

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 00:30 (one year ago) Permalink

pic.twitter.com/cgyYTZtpaN

— Tippi Hedren (@Tippi_Hedren) October 11, 2017

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:23 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm confused, is she anonymously quoting another actress who wrote that to her?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 01:44 (one year ago) Permalink

This fool would say this.

Oliver Stone refuses to condemn Harvey Weinstein saying "It's not easy what he's going through." https://t.co/eLs4nPPnPU pic.twitter.com/SwmDPqpCqM

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) October 13, 2017

Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:45 (one year ago) Permalink

Jesus.

Tarantino still hasn't commented, huh?

jmm, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Utterly shocked by the revelations about Harvey. He is a good friend, but if he is guilty, there are issues that are inevitable.

— Quentin Tarantino (@qtarantino) October 11, 2017

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

The guilt of men on the face of the earth must be determined by Justice and ultimately by the possible existence of God.

— Quentin Tarantino (@qtarantino) October 11, 2017

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

We need to stand up and support victims of abuse such as the brave and inspiring women who have spoken out.

— Quentin Tarantino (@qtarantino) October 12, 2017

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 01:56 (one year ago) Permalink

why are these dillweeds all so bad at lying

qualx, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't think that's a real account.

jmm, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:02 (one year ago) Permalink

ok so one person is good at lying

qualx, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:04 (one year ago) Permalink

oh nm

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Can't wait for QT to turn this into a thinly-disguised revenge Western.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 13 October 2017 02:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Filmmaker Robert Rodriguez has spoken out about Harvey Weinstein’s sexual harassment allegations.

Rodriguez has a long history with Weinstein’s company Miramax and was previously in a relationship with Rose McGowan, who said she was assaulted by Weinstein in 1997.

“I find the behavior of Harvey Weinstein truly disgusting, both what he did and how he covered his tracks, and it makes me wonder how many others can’t come forward and tell their full story because of legal and personal intimidation,” Rodriguez said in a statement obtained by Variety. “His repulsive behavior was an abuse of power. Thankfully, he’s now discovering what true power is.”

Rodriguez worked with the Weinstein’s and Miramax on a number of his films, including “The Spy Kids” series, “Roadracers,” “Four Rooms,” “From Dusk Til Dawn,” and “Sin City.”

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:09 (one year ago) Permalink

"And yet I stood by and did nothing and continued to make mad bank via a man who did this to women including one I dated"

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 13 October 2017 02:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Somebody tweeted at Kevin Smith the other day...his response:

He financed the first 14 years of my career - and now I know while I was profiting, others were in terrible pain. It makes me feel ashamed. https://t.co/T0hInW7EqJ

— KevinSmith (@ThatKevinSmith) October 9, 2017

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 13 October 2017 02:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Actress Tara Subkoff has opened up about her experience with Harvey Weinstein, alleging the producer sexually harassed her in the 1990s when she was up for a part in one of his movies.

“That night I was offered the role, and I went out to a premiere after party that Harvey Weinstein was also at,” she told Variety. “He motioned for me to come over to him, and then grabbed me to sit me on his lap. I was so surprised and shocked I couldn’t stop laughing because it was so awkward. But then I could feel that he had an erection. I got quiet, but got off his lap quickly. He then asked me to come outside with him and other things I don’t want to share, but it was implied that if I did not comply with doing what he asked me to do that I would not get the role that I had already been informally offered. I laughed in his face as I was in shock and so uncomfortable. I left the party right after that.”

Subkoff made her film debut in 1994’s thriller “When the Bough Breaks,” and appeared in the 1997 Jack Nicholson comedy “As Good as It Gets,” the 1997 “All Over Me,” and the 1998 Whit Stillman film “The Last Days of Disco.” Subkoff said after denying Weinstein’s advances that night, she was stripped of the informally offered part and blacklisted from acting in Hollywood.

“My reputation was ruined by false gossip, and I was called ‘too difficult to work with,'” she said. “It became impossible for me to get work as an actress after this, so I then had to start a new career path and started Imitation of Christ, a fashion and art label.

In 2015, Subkoff stepped back into entertainment and made her directorial debut with the feature film “#Horror.”

“The Weinstein company executives snuck into a cast and crew screening of my film and told me they loved it,” she recalled. “Then they took it to Harvey, who then refused to watch it but then bad-mouthed it to everyone all over Cannes.”

Still, the movie was picked up for distribution by IFC Midnight. “[IFC was] so supportive of me and the movie, even though Harvey tried to ruin any potential success it could have had,” she said. “It is challenging enough to get work in Hollywood as a female, let alone being a female filmmaker producer/director. And when people attempt to ruin your reputation on top of that, it makes it next to impossible.”

Subkoff said she hopes the growing list of women coming forward with their stories will set a precedent for how women are treated in all places of work. “I have a 17 month old daughter, and I hope she never has a story like this to share.”

Though she has never shared her story before, Subkoff said she opened up about her experience to demonstrate how “powerful men abusing their power can affect not only a few careers, but all of ours,” adding, “I had it affect and ruin my career as an actress. And then almost twenty years later it almost affected my first feature film I wrote directed and produced getting distribution. That refusing to comply with one powerful man’s sexual advances could not only ruin my first career as an actress, but almost twenty years later also had the power to affect my first and only feature film to get distribution is so important to show how the abuse of power by the patriarchy is affecting all female artists everywhere.”

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:16 (one year ago) Permalink

if there are people out there who had the guts to say "I've heard all the stories about this guy and you know what I don't want his money" we've probably never heard their names. That doesn't necessarily mean Kevin Smith knew but come on some of these motherfuckers definitely did.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 02:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Tarantino & Rodriguez obviously did. Probably Gosling. people like Kevin Smith, I'm not sure... I mean when something is such a widespread open secret, how much purchase do you really have if you only know vague rumors & you're three or four steps removed from the people involved?

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:26 (one year ago) Permalink

considering how many projects Weinstein worked on, you can see a pattern w/a lot of his accusers where they never worked with him again. i have no doubt it was an open secret, but i also think a lot of these guys--when they're saying "i didn't know"--are really saying "i didn't believe the accusers or the rumors i heard." or possibly, "i didn't care until i couldn't afford not to care anymore."

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:29 (one year ago) Permalink

That last story is horrifying particularly due to the fact he effectively stalked Subkoff years after she rebuffed him, to go out of his way to damage her reputation! I mean that goes beyond being butthurt and into the realm of fucked up controlling psychopath.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 13 October 2017 02:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Well, his Mallrats star knew.

#HarveyWeinstein #ClaireForlani #MyStory pic.twitter.com/gEVDkbP5ec

— Claire Forlani (@ClaireAForlani) October 12, 2017

Eazy, Friday, 13 October 2017 03:44 (one year ago) Permalink

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/12/media/amazon-studios-roy-price-harvey-weinstein/index.html

Head of Amazon Studios put on leave for telling Philip K Dick's daughter (producer of Man in the HIgh Castle) "you'd love my dick" and yelling "Anal sex!" in her ear.

akm, Friday, 13 October 2017 03:45 (one year ago) Permalink

<3 claire forlani

all this truth is so hard to take on board but so important to be heard, seen

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 13 October 2017 03:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I suspect we're going to hear so many more stories coming out over the next several days, weeks, months, etc. He used his position to be a predator stalking an entire generation of young actresses. And even from my limited scope here, you'd hear stories. When Rose McGowan would drop hints over the past couple years, it didn't take much guessing to know who it was. Everyone knew, but the people who could do something felt powerless or they turned a blind eye or they assisted.

And i think unfortunately producers like him, having to work with people like him, it's considered to be some perverse rite of passage, like "oh there are a lot of assholes in Hollywood ha ha!". the ones i'd always hear about was Scott Rudin, and from the old-school Jon Peters. But those stories were always out there, no coverups. They were just legendarily abusive to their underlings, but you'd never hear about actual crimes.

What's different here was the deep rot that had to set in everywhere for so many people to ignore it, or not investigate further. So I have to give massive respect for life to Rose McGowan, I'm complete in my admiration for her. And also for those others behind the scenes who--though they might have felt like they couldn't go to the authorities or the press with proof--nonetheless warned people away from him. And respect to those who had to deal with the PTSD from having him attack them. and i mean i'll never judge anyone for not coming forward, i do not doubt for a second that a lot of people found themselves in a position where they knew their careers could be ruined by this guy, and they felt stuck. it's horrific.

nomar, Friday, 13 October 2017 05:40 (one year ago) Permalink

xps I like Clerks and Dogma well enough, but Smith strikes me as probably an enabler. Unless someone's got a strong case that his best pal Jason Mewes was unlikely to have been a constant harasser.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 13 October 2017 10:26 (one year ago) Permalink

Hollywood is steeped in disease to varying "open secret" degrees. The whole "casting couch" thing is practically a punchline, which is pretty sick; talk about an open secret. HW seems to be several steps beyond the norm, whatever that may be, but the fact that literally everyone knows what the proverbial casting couch is shows how deep and far back this stuff goes, no doubt in and at every level of every industry but especially where this boys club mentality appears to be encouraged and dismissed (see: Fox News, the President, everywhere, etc.).

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 October 2017 11:40 (one year ago) Permalink

From Quentin Tarantino: pic.twitter.com/jv0VQNrI91

— Amber Tamblyn (@ambertamblyn) October 13, 2017

Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 October 2017 13:33 (one year ago) Permalink

God, seeing these names I haven't seen in forever (Tara Subkoff! Claire Forlani!) and realizing the probable reasons why I haven't seen their names in forever is just the most awful shit. It's not enough that he physically violated these women, he also had to actively snuff out their careers.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Friday, 13 October 2017 13:43 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck Batman, what a piece of shit enabler

I ran through about 5 names in my mind before I realized you were talking about Affleck

President Keyes, Friday, 13 October 2017 13:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Claire Forlani was in a pretty recent Lifetime movie about a sadistic (exercise) trainer/life coach who preyed on exercise-obsessed Forlani until her spirit was broken. Not bad for a Lifetime movie. Not great.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 13 October 2017 14:03 (one year ago) Permalink

xp: ditto.

how's life, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I've been very skeptical about all these Hollywood people claiming ignorance about Weinstein. I think it's possible they weren't aware of the rape and sexual assault details, but they surely knew that he wasn't a good person, it was common knowledge. I even think this extends to Hillary Clinton and other politicians that took money from him and treated him like a friend. It's dumb that there's been this whole side conversation about Clinton, she doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud, nor should this conversation even be about her. But I can't help but feel ambivalent about her and other democrats taking his money. Again, it's completely possible they had no idea about the rape allegations, but they must have known they were dealing with a bad character.

My impressions about Weinstein come primarily from reading Down and Dirty Pictures by Peter Biskind about 10 years ago. I don't remember much about that book. The main thing I do remember about it is that it clearly paints Weinstein as a monster, a horrible person who you should avoid working with at all costs. I don't think the book touches on anything to do with sex, but it is very clear that he is no good.

Interestingly, Biskind was interviewed by Slate regarding these new allegations:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/10/peter_biskind_on_the_harvey_weinstein_abuse_allegations.html

He comes off as weirdly defensive about the whole thing because he didn't include any details of sexual abuse. He's very vague about whether he knew anything or not. I guess I can understand that he wants to cover his own ass, but I don't see how anyone could read his book and end up with anything but a highly negative view about Weinstein.

Moodles, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:23 (one year ago) Permalink

I take it there's been no comment from Trump.

Mark G, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:24 (one year ago) Permalink

He said he knows Weinstein and he's not surprised.

President Keyes, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:25 (one year ago) Permalink

lol @ tarantino "The guilt of men on the face of the earth must be determined by Justice and ultimately by the possible existence of God."

marcos, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:28 (one year ago) Permalink

*farts*

marcos, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:28 (one year ago) Permalink

that was fake tho right?

President Keyes, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:28 (one year ago) Permalink

ok nm i guess it is a fake account lol

marcos, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:29 (one year ago) Permalink

sorry

marcos, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Is it a joke account or some person trying to pretend they are him?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:38 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.thedailybeast.com/prosecutor-threw-away-slam-dunk-cases-against-weinstein-and-trump-kids?source=facebook&via=mobile

(author is a law professor, specialist in prosecutorial misconduct, and former manhattan prosecutor, so he knows what he is talking about)

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 14:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah I think the only real comment from him so far is that one I linked. (That said, it's a lame comment.)

Ned Raggett, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:50 (one year ago) Permalink

.@KellyannePolls: "Any woman who remained silent as the next generation suffered... they have no right [to say] they speak for women." pic.twitter.com/68txoCg03b

— Fox News (@FoxNews) October 13, 2017

Vile.

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 13 October 2017 14:55 (one year ago) Permalink

I really like this piece: https://jezebel.com/dont-make-a-scene-1819360859

If the phrase serves to quickly end a woman’s expression of emotion, then it also serves to define that behavior as performatively unnatural. Almost any allegation can be thus dismissed as yet another crazy, irrational woman making yet another unnecessary scene. Rose McGowan, one of the few of Weinstein’s victims to speak publicly about her abuse, was called “batshit insane,” and her habit of speaking openly about the casual sexism in Hollywood, treated as a questionable spectacle from an unwell woman. McGowan did not act like a victim should. She was angry and messy rather than polite and meek about her allegations. We prefer victims to be “brave,” to articulate their abuse without the messy feelings of anger or regret inflecting the narrative. Anger is for the men who have been accused who, even after mounting evidence of their abusive behavior, still only have to say “these charges are not true,” to provide evidence of their rationality. A victim’s anger is a messy spectacle—a big scene—but the anger of the accused is an objective response to so-called false allegations. McGowan made a scene even as other victims, through threats and media manipulation, were rendered silent, prevented from making a scene.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 13 October 2017 14:56 (one year ago) Permalink

on a side note, Tippi Hedren has a cool signature

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippi_Hedren#/media/File:Tippi_Hedren_signature.jpg

jmm, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:06 (one year ago) Permalink

i believe that phrase comes from the french "faire la comedie" which sometimes means "make a scene" but still often literally means "pretend; make something up"

xpost: omg!!

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 13 October 2017 15:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Dug up this Oliver Stone profile this morning. Shows how "out in the open" all of this was in that era.

@briankoppelman Reminded of Stephen Schiff's '94 @NewYorker profile of Oliver Stone: https://t.co/j7IVSTqZxh pic.twitter.com/k1EaGwcLLq

— Eric Ziegenhagen (@ericzieg) October 13, 2017

Eazy, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:18 (one year ago) Permalink

patricia arquette appears to be going in on oliver stone right now

mookieproof, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Didn't Stone grope Salma Hayek in public a few years ago?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Colin Firth saying "I knew and I'm ashamed I didn't do anything" is at least honest. So far the split seems to be, roughly, something like this:

Woman who has encountered Weinstein makes a statement: "everyone knew about this".
Man who has encountered Weinstein makes a statement: "I didn't know about this".

The latter looking more and more dubious as this continues.

Position Position, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I would be much more sympathetic to someone who just said -- "Yeah, I knew. We all knew. I didn't come forward because I was afraid to rock the boat and I wasn't sure it would do any good, and I was afraid to get sued for defamation and ruin my career."

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 13 October 2017 15:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Other than Hitchcock are there many deceased people who people started telling stories about? Obviously they have families and people interested in protecting their legacies but I'd imagine it's easier for older actors or their families to accuse people who are gone?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink

H'wood is a very gossipy town and stuff tends to circulate while people are alive, going back as far to the days of Fatty Arbuckle and Charlie Chaplin. I'm sure people in H'Wood knew about Htich and Hedren, the crew on the Birds knew it for ex.

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:14 (one year ago) Permalink

While Chaplin seemed to serially seduce his often younger leading ladies (as Gary Cooper did later), he was the Most Famous Man in the World for a long stretch, so while there was certainly a power dynamic at work I haven't read about any assaults per se.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 13 October 2017 16:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Ronald Reagan of course

President Keyes, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Regarding who knew and when, a lot of the men who didn't know didn't know because those who knew deemed it unsafe to tell them.

Frederik B, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:38 (one year ago) Permalink

re: Oliver Stone... he also was lecherous and aggressive with the director of CITIZENFOUR, who scooped Stone's Snowden movie by a couple years. Tried to convince her to delay releasing her film so his could come out first... prick

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 17:21 (one year ago) Permalink

ugh, never knew about any of that

"The" Blink-182 (wins), Friday, 13 October 2017 17:27 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/oliver-stone-snowden-biopic

Speaking of the Snowden documentary, Stone clashed heavily with its director, Laura Poitras. She recalled that when they met for the first time in 2014, Stone asked her to delay the release of her film, because his "would be the real movie."

“To have another filmmaker ask me to delay the release of my film was—well, it was somewhat insulting," she said.

At another point, during dinner, he also “reached over and had his hands around my neck,” she remembered, “sort of in a joking way.”

“I think he was a little bit drunk,” she said. “But it was not a particularly pleasant evening.”

flappy bird, Friday, 13 October 2017 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

I've been very skeptical about all these Hollywood people claiming ignorance about Weinstein. I think it's possible they weren't aware of the rape and sexual assault details, but they surely knew that he wasn't a good person, it was common knowledge. I even think this extends to Hillary Clinton and other politicians that took money from him and treated him like a friend. It's dumb that there's been this whole side conversation about Clinton, she doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud, nor should this conversation even be about her. But I can't help but feel ambivalent about her and other democrats taking his money. Again, it's completely possible they had no idea about the rape allegations, but they must have known they were dealing with a bad character.

How am I, an average consumer of movies with an ordinary life and job, supposed to feel when I read self-indulgent shit like, "gee, I didn't know?" Shows you how out of touch some of these celebrities are. I mean, I've worked in offices where there is a serial harasser or general creep, and EVERYONE KNOWS. And it's difficult enough to get these guys in trouble when you're in a much lower income bracket. Why are they tweeting at us peons? No, we don't understand. I guess they're just trying to save face, but fuck them. Hope this fucks up ALL of their careers.

Fake Sam's Club (I M Losted), Friday, 13 October 2017 17:40 (one year ago) Permalink

there's layers though

I mean not to be captain obvious, I'm more just thinking this through out loud myself but...

there's the sad enraging truth that Hollywood is, and has always historically been, by and large a very self-involved, self-protecting "commmunity" -- or "town of strangers who happen work together", depending on how high the stakes are

and even workplaces in general can be that way too.

if someone has a reputation like Weinstein's not only sexually but the whole magilla of being intimidating and prone to violent outbursts and also holding a lot of power, all of that is likely received in terms of how it affects one's self and one's career. especially in Hollywood. if you are part of the circle that "knows", it may just mean that you conduct yourself in a way that means you don't have to deal with him or you limit your dealings, give him a wide berth so to speak. for dudes this may mean you still shake hands and go out to dinner because you know that *you're* not in danger. that's reductive but still, I think it happens more than we're willing to admit.

And you've seen from the stories the woman have told, being one who 'knows' and shares that knowledge with others can have consequences. the fear that word gets back to Weinstein that the warning came from you is enough to make a lot of people stay mum no matter what, because they don't want to risk their jobs/careers/whatever.

It's like the common stories you hear in workplaces: longtime employees might know amongst themselves who to stay away from at parties or who gets handsy when left alone but no-one's necessarily making a point of telling the new employees. Depending on the environment and the offender in question, it may just be pure luck that the new employee happens to befriend someone is willing to share that knowledge with you. if you don't socialize or you're not thought of as being the offender's 'type', you may be left to learn on your own.

there's so much coded langugage and behaviour around these types of people and so much weird shared understanding of how socially or professionally those people are dealt with that a hundred people could KNOW and still never actually help anyone, especially if that person generally conducts themselves in an intimidating manner; or alternatively if the offender is the 'great guy' who is great to everyone, same thing applies.

again, this is all stuff we all know, but I think it's important for the 'why don't they just' angle to be seen in light of what really goes on

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 13 October 2017 18:30 (one year ago) Permalink

I was reminded this week of Jared Harris's anecdote from his AV Club interview a few years back about working with Oliver Stone.

Natural Born Killers (1994)—“London Boy”

JH: That was wild. I went in to audition for a different part, and clearly, before I got in, the casting director had told Oliver Stone my name, and who I was, and that I was Richard Harris’ son. Oliver was clearly pissed off that he was seeing an English actor to audition for an American role, because I get in there, and Oliver calls me Richard the entire time, and when we start to do the scene, the casting director doesn’t even wait for me to get halfway through my lines before he gives me the cue for the next line. He’s just basically rushing me out of there. I can see that he’s cowering a bit, and that he’s being chewed out, so I’m assuming that’s what happened. It was a fucking disaster. I get out of there thinking that was a fucking waste of time. “What the fuck? He didn’t even get my fucking name right!”

So I’m going home, and a phone call comes through to my agent, and they want me to come back and read for a different part that is an English part. So I go back in there a couple of days later— this time he’s got my name right—and I’m halfway through that, and Oliver Stone cuts me off and went, “Yeah, yeah, you’re a natural. You’ve got this part. It’s yours. Do you want to… do you have a girlfriend?” I say, “Yeah.” “Is she an actress?” Now, she was just thinking about getting into the business, so I immediately go “Yeah, of course she is.” She has that one line at the end of the scene. So he goes, “Bring her along and she can say that line.” I go “Great.” So I go home, and I’m all proud and everything. I’m like “I got you a part in an Oliver Stone movie,” right? So I’m a hero for a couple of days.

We get to the set, and the girl is absolutely gorgeous, and they dress her up in this long wig with this tank top where the pits are out and these tiny hot pants and these long boots, and she looks basically like a tart on any boulevard late at night on a Friday, you know, hustling. Which is kind of strange. But Oliver’s tongue falls out of his mouth like the cartoon wolf as soon as he sees her, and he comes up to her, he goes, “Oh my God, oh my God, you are so beautiful.” He goes “You are so beautiful. Don’t you know that all the men here are in love with you?” I’m looking at him, and it’s kind of embarrassing. I’m standing next to her while he’s doing this, and I say, “Are you speaking for yourself there, Oliver?” And he looks at me like I’m an ant. “What the fuck is this peon doing talking to me? Why is he opening his mouth?” He kind of withers me with his stare, and he turns back to her, and he goes “So, tell me, have you got a boyfriend?” And she takes a little bit too long to answer. There’s this long pause, and she sort of sticks up her hand, points her thumb, and jerks it in my direction.

And he goes “Him?” And she goes “Yeah.” “With him? This guy?” She goes “Yeah.” He goes “Jared?” She goes “Yes.” He says “But… with… where did you meet… I mean, Jared?” And I look at Oliver Stone, and I went “Yes. You knew that. You asked me to bring her.” I said, “On your way, Stone. Turn around and on your way.” And he gets a bit shocked, and he turns around and starts to walk away, but then he remembers that he’s the director. He stops, and he looks back at me, and he goes, “That was a typically English thing to say.” And I look at him, and I go, “I’m sorry, what would the American thing have been? You can have her if I can have a bigger part?” From that point on, he fucked with us all day long. He was furious. That was my Oliver Stone experience.

Chris L, Friday, 13 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

oh man that last exchange is priceless

I have no memory of Jared Harris in that movie

Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 19:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Oliver was clearly pissed off that he was seeing an English actor to audition for an American role,

. . . in the movie where Robert Downey, Jr. plays an Australian.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Friday, 13 October 2017 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Nothing like watching a dude who creeped on my 18yo friend talking about the HW saga as the ‘counter’ to feminists on Newsnight.

kim jong deal (suzy), Friday, 13 October 2017 21:46 (one year ago) Permalink

jared harris is the fuckin man!

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 13 October 2017 21:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Other than Hitchcock are there many deceased people who people started telling stories about? Obviously they have families and people interested in protecting their legacies but I'd imagine it's easier for older actors or their families to accuse people who are gone?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, October 13, 2017 4:05 PM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this kind of reminds me of the 'everyone is a pedo' revelations in the UK

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 13 October 2017 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Emma Thompson - one of the more radical prime-time interviews I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_W6kPqR9U&feature=youtu.be

Eazy, Friday, 13 October 2017 22:25 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV_W6kPqR9U

Eazy, Friday, 13 October 2017 22:25 (one year ago) Permalink

yes - it is pretty fuckin definitive that interview

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 14 October 2017 00:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Wow Emma Thompson is great

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Saturday, 14 October 2017 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

This is odd. I’m not sure what makes this the op-ed to write at this particular juncture.

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/mayim-bialik-reflects-on-hollywood-feminism-after-weinstein.html


“As a ‘nontraditional’-looking woman, I came back to an industry that had me auditioning for the ‘frumpy friend’ or the ‘zaftig secretary,’ though I eventually landed a role that has earned me four Emmy nominations,” Bialik writes in a New York Times Opinion piece about her decision to return to acting after pursuing a doctorate degree in neuroscience. “And yet I have also experienced the upside of not being a ‘perfect ten.’ As a proud feminist with little desire to diet, get plastic surgery or hire a personal trainer, I have almost no personal experience with men asking me to meetings in their hotel rooms. Those of us in Hollywood who don’t represent an impossible standard of beauty have the ‘luxury’ of being overlooked and, in many cases, ignored by men in power unless we can make them money.”

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 14:40 (one year ago) Permalink

on the other side of it, Melissa Sagemiller has come forward with a vv straightforward account of his modus operandi:

Over two dozen women have come forward with accounts of Harvey Weinstein’s sexual misconduct, yielding a clearer sense of the abuse allegedly inflicted by the once-powerful movie producer.

Actress Melissa Sagemiller has now told HuffPost that she experienced Weinstein’s behavior firsthand in the summer of 2000, when she filmed “Get Over It.”

It was Sagemiller’s second movie, a contemporary teen comedy based on “A Midsummer Night’s Dream,” following the thriller “Soul Survivors.” The production, in her own words, was “star-studded.” Her colleagues included Kirsten Dunst, Ben Foster, Sisqó, Zoe Saldana, Mila Kunis, Shane West, Colin Hanks, Martin Short, Ed Begley Jr., Swoosie Kurtz and Carmen Electra.

Miramax, the studio that Weinstein managed at the time, distributed the film, which meant Weinstein floated around the set throughout the two-month shoot. Sagemiller said that Weinstein, who was then married to his onetime assistant, made three separate advances toward her, all uninvited. The first incident allegedly occurred during a lunch meeting arranged by Weinstein’s assistant. At a later date, Sagemiller said he attempted to coax her into his hotel room, supposedly to “discuss the script.” She also described an episode after the movie wrapped, in which Weinstein ordered airport personnel to deliver her to his private plane, despite her protests and separately scheduled flight.

At the time, Sagemiller wasn’t completely silent about the ordeal, though she was encouraged not to formally speak out. (She suspects Weinstein left Dunst and Kunis alone because they were underage at the time.)

“I was definitely talking about it when we would go out with the cast because I was trying to warn the other girls, and I was trying to be tough about it and make a joke about it,” she said. “I will definitely say that the whole atmosphere with my agents there at the time, and with everyone in the business, including his producing partner, who was a woman, was like, ‘Don’t cause any trouble. Don’t say anything. You’re not going to be that girl because it will definitely hurt your career. This is Harvey. Harvey’s Harvey. Just don’t pay attention to him, ignore it, just move on.’ I was never told, ‘Are you OK? Do you want to say anything? Do you want to report this?’ Nothing like that. It was just, ‘That’s Harvey.’”

Weinstein’s licentious activity has been extensively covered over the past week. After The New York Times and The New Yorker published separate investigations into the years-long allegations lodged against the mogul, actresses like Cara Delevingne and Kate Beckinsale have told their own stories via social media.

Below is Sagemiller’s account of Weinstein’s behavior as it progressed throughout filming. She spoke to us by phone on Thursday; we have edited and condensed her quotes slightly to ensure clarity.

“I just think it’s so widespread,” the actress said. “It’s crazy. And it’s not just Harvey. It’s so many people in the industry. You start talking, and then another actress will go, ‘Oh yeah, I had that happen to me.’ I think this is a very important, interesting time.”

1. The lunch

At the time, I was 24. We were shooting in Toronto, and I think right after shooting started, I was called by one of his assistants — a woman, as always — saying, “Harvey wants to have lunch with you” [...] which I was actually even sort of excited about. I thought, “Oh, wow, the head of Miramax wants to take me to lunch ― great!” It was my second big film that I was doing. No one really warned me that much. They might have said, “Oh, he’s a little frisky,” but no one warned me the extent of what I was about to encounter.

So I go to lunch. I will say I was prepped in that I’d heard he likes his leading ladies — that’s sort of the extent. It obviously gives you a little something, like, “OK, I know what I’m walking into.”

The lunch was fine, although he was pretty inappropriate in terms of just being very flirty and asking me what I like to do and what kind of guys I like to date. It did become personal. Then he took me to a bookstore and proceeded to ask me, did I like literature? I was an English major at the University of Virginia. “Great, I’m going to buy you every Fitzgerald book in the bookstore, and I’m going to sign it to you, especially ‘The Last Tycoon’ because I am the last tycoon, and I’m actually about to produce the film, and it’s all about me, and you’re an English major — you’re so smart.”

I’m a city girl — I know how to handle myself. I’m tough. I was like, “OK, Harvey.” I gave him a lot of shit. I was always quick with a response, and I was quick to deflect because I figured out really quickly what kind of guy I thought he was.

2. The hotel room

The next incident that happened was further into the production. I was called by another assistant of his asking me to go to his hotel room. It’s like the Ashley Judd situation. He wanted to discuss the script. I was like, “I really don’t feel comfortable with this. Can we meet on the set tomorrow? In my trailer? Whatever. I just don’t really understand why I have to go to his room.” I was told, “It’s not going to be a long meeting.”

This is the horror of it all: You have another woman orchestrating this, knowing full well what is going to happen.

So then the assistant said, “The script has all these changes that he needs to discuss with you. It’s very important.” I remember talking to my boyfriend at the time on the phone, being like, “I can’t believe I have to do this. I don’t want to do this. I don’t have a good feeling about this, and I know what’s going to happen.” I was trying to be tough about it.

Anyway, I went to his room. Immediately he had drinks. The script was on the kitchen counter. He was in his robe. He’s like, “Would you give me a massage?” The whole thing. I said, “Harvey, I’m here to discuss the script. I’m not going to give you a massage or any of that.” And the banter went back and forth. He’s like, “I love you. You’re so fiery, you’re so smart. No one can give you shit, Sagemiller.” I’m like, “Exactly right.” But he just wouldn’t stop. I said, “I’m going to have to leave — we were supposed to discuss the script.” I just remember him saying, “Ah, I have to take a shower; I just went to the gym.” I don’t even know. It was so gross.

He said, “Well, you’re not going to leave until you kiss me.” I remember that’s when it turned from “Oh, ha ha, I can handle this guy” to “Well, OK, he’s blocking the door, sort of” — he’d walked over and put his hand on the door. It was just one of those things where I was like, “Really?” He just wouldn’t stop. It was relentless. And then he said, “Well, Renée did it and Charlize did it and this other actress did it. Don’t you want your career to be more than just this little teen film?” I said, “No, I’m not interested, thank you very much.” He said, “Well, you can’t leave until you kiss me.” He literally would not let me leave. I said fine and kissed him on the lips. He sort of held my head and made me kiss him, and then he’s like, “OK, you can go now. That’s all I wanted. Just do what I say and you can get your way.”

He finally opened the door so I could leave. I remember sitting in that elevator. He was so disgusting. He was taking Accutane at the time, and his skin was peeling all over this face. His lips were peeling. He was like Jabba the Hutt. He was like a lizard that was molting. It was so disgusting. […] I know that women have had much worse.

3. The airplane

Cut to the wrap party. He’d already gotten some other girl that he had given this small number of lines to and was apparently sleeping with, according to the rumor mill on the movie. So he started to leave me alone and not pursue me as much, until the wrap party comes around.

I had to come over and say, “Thank you for the movie.” He said, “Well, you’re coming back on my plane.” I said, “Harvey, I’m totally cool. I’ve got my own flight. Thank you so much for the offer, but I’m good. I’m good.” He’s like, “No, no, no, you’re taking my plane. It’s fine, I’ll arrange it. It’s all arranged. It’s arranged already.”

So then I ran out the door of the party and called my agent at the time. I said, “Do not take me off the flight I’m on. No matter who calls, do not cancel this flight that I have. It’s my separate flight from Toronto.”

The party ended and I went back to the hotel. I woke up and left the hotel an hour earlier than I was supposed to. My flight was at, like, 10 a.m., and I left the hotel at 7:30 a.m. That way, I wouldn’t see his assistant, I wouldn’t see Harvey, I wouldn’t see anyone.

I checked my bag, I went through security — this is pre-9/11, mind you — and I’m waiting to board at the gate of the flight when, all of a sudden, over the loudspeaker, I hear, “Melissa Sagemiller, please report to the security desk immediately. Melissa Sagemiller, please pick up the white phone at the security desk immediately.”

So I’m like, “Wait, what? Did someone have a heart attack?” You’re just thinking about all of these horrible scenarios. I run to the security desk down the hall, and it’s his assistant again. “Melissa? We’ve gotten your bags off the plane. The car is out front. Get in the car.” It was just so incredible. I started laughing. I said, “What are you talking about? You got my bags?” She’s like, “Yes, Harvey’s insistent. Please get in the car. Just please get in the car.”

They’d kidnapped my bags at this point, so I was just like, “Fine, you win, motherfucker.” So I left the airport, went out to the top level where the car was, got in the car. They raced me to the private-plane runway where there were other actors on the plane. Sisqó was on it, and Shane West was on it. Thank God. If I had walked in there and it was just him, I don’t know. I would have had to run away because that’s horrendous. I think I even asked at the time, “Are there other people on this plane? I’m not going alone.” [The assistant] said, “There are other actors on this plane.”

So I get on the plane, I walk up and I go, “Harvey, you motherfucker.” He’s just sitting there. He pats his hand on the seat next to him, and he’s like, “See, Melissa, you can’t say no to me. I always get what I want.” He wanted me on this plane, and he wanted me somewhere where I couldn’t go anywhere. And he just wanted to eff with me. He just wanted to fuck with my head. [...]

It was a short flight, from Toronto to New York. Shane and I were talking; we were friendly, and I stuck by him. I’m sure I had told him Harvey’s stories. [...]

I don’t think I’ve interacted with [Harvey] that much because none of the other movies I did were Miramax. […] And then I crossed over and did mostly television, so I didn’t have to see him. [...]

If my manager called me tomorrow and said, “Actually, I remember there was this movie you were up for, and now that I’m thinking back on it, maybe [rebuffing Weinstein is] why you didn’t get it,” I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

nomar, Saturday, 14 October 2017 14:45 (one year ago) Permalink

mayim bialik thing is utterly bizarre and wrong. wtf.

assawoman bay (harbl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 14:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Can y'all post shorter excerpts, please?

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:02 (one year ago) Permalink

melissa sagemiller is an excellent storyteller! worth the read.

so many relatable moments in there. the condescension of unrelenting flattery*, the blocking of the door, the call on the white phone. jfc all the work this woman had to do to get away from this dude and he kept pursuing.

*this is not "hey cool skirt" or "dig your hair!" it's "you're so smart, you're so beautiful, etc etc etc" to the degree that it couldn't possibly be genuine, until it feels like paint-by-numbers flattery, which gets scary because it means they think they are buttering you up but they're getting nowhere and you need to develop a safe escape plan :(

now i am going to google her to see who she is, i have no idea.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah nomar, there’s these things called links, man

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:16 (one year ago) Permalink

i remembered her from the film Soul Survivors, which was a not-good film. but i do remember that she and Eliza Dushku were better than the film deserved.

the pattern is so obvious here, i suspect there are so many more and like Melissa Sagemiller, they're trying to get their stories out and getting them down right. so much anger and relief at releasing it in these pieces.

nomar, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:20 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah i kinda thought the whole thing was worth reading i guess idk...

nomar, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh I read the whole thing I just wanted to pile on

Anyway the company’s doomed

http://www.vulture.com/2017/10/the-weinstein-company-may-be-sold-or-shut-down-entirely.html

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

the part about getting to the airport and then getting the call over the intercom that was like straight out of a horror movie holy crap

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

what strikes me again is how many people were involved in setting this up, even in the face of protests and discomfort and people literally trying to escape on airplanes!

nomar, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Hell, he’s almost as bad as Bryan Singer.

rb (soda), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:43 (one year ago) Permalink

My heart started racing at certain points of sagemiller's story

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:48 (one year ago) Permalink

it was an excellent soberly-written (minimal hyperbole/jokes) detailed explanation. i enjoyed reading it and identified with a lot of the details.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I definitely recognize the way organizational culture plays into it. You arrive in your first internship or whatever and you see the people around you behaving in a certain way regarding a boss and it seems off but it's not your place to raise it. Eventually you either play the game and get absorbed into the culture or you leave. Not that I've ever worked somewhere on Weinstein level of bad but I can see how the dynamic plays out with a bad boss.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Is the Singer stuff confirmed? I remember that big lawsuit against him being dismissed when he had proof that the accuser's story didn't line up with a timeline or something, but I saw on Wikipedia there were some other accusations that sounded a bit iffy

Nhex, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:02 (one year ago) Permalink

gives me the Louis B Mayer chills

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Someone mentioned upthread or elsewhere that if there was ever a time for Corey Feldman to name names, it’s now ... same with the Singer stuff
I would hope that seeing all these women share their stories & letting themselves be named might give victims of other abuses some hope idk

There’s so many known secrets that have caused so many people so much pain

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Just do what I say and you can get your way.

jmm, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:12 (one year ago) Permalink

That’s the most interesting thing about this for me as a social science dabbler. I’ve been thinking about how this is fortunately absolutely not part of the corporate culture where I work, never has been, but I’ve certainly heard of other government offices, research shops, and we all know about military units where this kind of shit festers.

At least in most of the public sector, inspectors general and employee ombudsman offices are mandated - so this kind of casting couch shit doesn’t last long, if it’s reported. I realize that’s a big if.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:18 (one year ago) Permalink

That was an xp to man alive

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:19 (one year ago) Permalink

now i am going to google her to see who she is, i have no idea.

In a movie with Mika Kunis and Kirsten Dunst when she resisted...

Eazy, Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:58 (one year ago) Permalink

aye but use other sources plz

angelo irishagreementi (ledge), Saturday, 14 October 2017 17:24 (one year ago) Permalink

In a movie with Mika Kunis and Kirsten Dunst when she resisted...

iirc she mentioned they were underage in the thing posted above?

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 14 October 2017 17:33 (one year ago) Permalink

The guy has principles after all.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 17:34 (one year ago) Permalink

I mean ... what confirmation do you need re: Singer? Same as Weinstein, he’s a powerful. Nothing ever ends up on an official record, there’s just a mounting body of anecdotes that eventually snowball into an irrefutable awareness of behaviors r. And I *know* people who, first hand, report on Singer. Like Weinstein or Cosby or Ailes, nobody saw anything too damning, nothing that can’t be waved away away by a superpowered legal team, and there are always implied to be credibility problems with the people stepping forward.

rb (soda), Saturday, 14 October 2017 17:34 (one year ago) Permalink

there are always implied to be credibility problems with the people stepping forward.

"Today, in a stunning coincidence, fifty women who do not know one another came forward with shockingly similar stories about the predatory sexual behavior of a powerful man. In a statement issued by the man's lawyer, the women were all said to be lying, for reasons that will become apparent once they've had time to study the situation in greater detail."

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 14 October 2017 17:52 (one year ago) Permalink

remy otm

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

The sense I'm getting around town is that people are feeling empowered to come forward about other people now. One example is a friend of a friend whose wife worked at UTA as an assistant and was sexually harassed by the agent she worked for. She went to HR with evidence (lewd and disgusting texts, and so on.) the head of HR there told her, "we're not here for your pity party."

This revelation was in response to the head of UTA releasing a statement talking BS about how shocked and appalled he was etc...

nomar, Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

popbitch does also

http://popbitch.com/2017/10/inches-for-inches/

piscesx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:23 (one year ago) Permalink

“No you’re here to create an illusion that the company is a responsible workplace.”

kim jong deal (suzy), Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:24 (one year ago) Permalink

great op ed from the NYT about how women who get assaulted are asking for it. thanks for furthering discourse https://t.co/HhOkMiBICN

— Ghouls N. Binoculars (@surfbordt) October 14, 2017

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Sorry, missed that it was already discussed.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Emma Thompson - one of the more radical prime-time interviews I've ever seen.

Radical would not have been "we need more women in power," it would be "power differentials this great must be destroyed."

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 18:38 (one year ago) Permalink

a bit fucked up that sagemiller mentioned charlize and zellweger by name, a million times more fucked up that huffpo didn't blank them out

even if harvey was lying, none of the names of women who did or didn't sleep with him should be made public without their permission

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:19 (one year ago) Permalink

i went to the reddit thread on r/movies on this after the NYT story initially came out to see their reactions bc i hate myself, and it immediately turned into a witch hunt over which ones were "harvey's girls"

a lot of people are just as hungry to hate the women he successfully manipulated as they are him

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh good a strong leftist man is here to tell us what the barriers to entry are for radical

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:26 (one year ago) Permalink

are you serious

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:28 (one year ago) Permalink

that huffpo article also includes a fun "representatives for theron and zellweger have not responded to us" disclaimer as if they're both under trial too

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

^^ This is where Clooney’s comments seemed on the mark: that he had heard stories, but they were mostly shared to knock the talent of the actors (“slept her way up”), not to damn Harvey. Certainly heard that about some of the 90s stars in the past.

In a movie with Mika Kunis and Kirsten Dunst when she resisted...

iirc she mentioned they were underage in the thing posted above?

He may not have hit on him then, but the one he did hit on and was rejected by is now the name we’ve never heard of.

Eazy, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

specifically said it was on huffpo to redact the names but if you think names of women accused of sleeping with harvey are good to publish without their consent idk what to tell you, this is pretty basic shit xp

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

ok lol tombot if you were referring to that twitter post and not me i'm sorry i got livid for a second, if you were referring to me fuck off

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:32 (one year ago) Permalink

oh now i see the simon post, forgot you hated each other, ignore me

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

enh "more female studio heads" isn't a *wrong* solution just an insufficient one. I don't hate anyone, just the discourse more generally

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

The solution is forced castration obv

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 14 October 2017 21:40 (one year ago) Permalink

I don’t hate anyone here either tbf, I’m just a dick.

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 22:00 (one year ago) Permalink

same, <3 you all, saving my hate for capitalist hetero-patriarchy

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

i hate all of you

qualx, Saturday, 14 October 2017 22:52 (one year ago) Permalink

i hate myself

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:11 (one year ago) Permalink

I hate the world, and any god that exists

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Good talk

El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Sarah Polley OTM now and always:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/opinion/sunday/harvey-weinstein-sarah-polley.html

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:28 (one year ago) Permalink

I hate myself for thinking of "Withnail and I", wiki you take over...

Early in the film, Withnail reads from an article headlined "Boy Lands Plum Role For Top Italian Director" and then goes on to imply that the director is sexually abusing the boy. This is a reference to the sexual harassment that Robinson alleges he suffered at the hands of Italian director Franco Zeffirelli when, as a young man, he won the role of Benvolio in Romeo and Juliet.[6]

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:32 (one year ago) Permalink

fuck, i didnt know abt that :/

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Withnail: [looking at a newspaper] Look at this little bastard. Boy lands plumb role for top Italian director. Of course he does. Probably on a tenner a day and I know what for: Two pound ten a tit and a fiver for his arse.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Sarah Polley OTM now and always
otm

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:45 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost seen Withnail a million times & never knew the story behind it

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Fuck.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Saturday, 14 October 2017 23:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Funny, I thought that was well known -- I've read at least one interview years back with Robinson where he casually mentions that.

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, I thought everyone knew about that, I'm not sure I buy the theory that Monty is based on Zeffirelli though.

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:40 (one year ago) Permalink

mila kunis popped up in some of the stories - though not as a participant, weinstein using her name a few times in his traps. dude was obsessed with her?

Nhex, Sunday, 15 October 2017 03:04 (one year ago) Permalink

Love her xp

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 October 2017 03:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Bjork on her FB page an hour ago...

i am inspired by the women everywhere who are speaking up online to tell about my experience with a danish director . because i come from a country that is one of the worlds place closest to equality between the sexes and at the time i came from position of strength in the music world with hard earned independence , it was extremely clear to me when i walked into the actresses profession that my humiliation and role as a lesser sexually harassed being was the norm and set in stone with the director and a staff of dozens who enabled it and encouraged it . i became aware of that it is a universal thing that a director can touch and harass his actresses at will and the institution of film allows it . when i turned the director down repeatedly he sulked and punished me and created for his team an impressive net of illusion where i was framed as the difficult one . because of my strength , my great team and because i had nothing to loose having no ambitions in the acting world , i walked away from it and recovered in a years time . i am worried though that other actresses working with the same man did not . the director was fully aware of this game and i am sure of that the film he made after was based on his experiences with me . because i was the first one that stood up to him and didn't let him get away with it

and in my opinion he had a more fair and meaningful relationship with his actresses after my confrontation so there is hope

let's hope this statement supports the actresses and actors all over

let's stop this

there is a wave of change in the world

kindness

björk

MaresNest, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Lars von Trier?

Moodles, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:15 (one year ago) Permalink

Indeed

MaresNest, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:17 (one year ago) Permalink

good for Bjork, though it's a little odd to not name names there when everyone knows who she's talking about.

evol j, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:17 (one year ago) Permalink

It was clear she had a horrible experience with him as soon as that film came out, but sexual harassment wasn't really called out at the time.

Moodles, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Indeed, sadly it's not surprising. Good for her for stepping up to the plate.

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 15 October 2017 14:37 (one year ago) Permalink

so he was kicked out of the Academy with the accompanying statement “We do so not simply to separate ourselves from someone who does not merit the respect of his colleagues but also to send a message that the era of willful ignorance and shameful complicity in sexually predatory behavior and workplace harassment in our industry is over.”

yet Cosby and Polanski are still members. only one other person has been kicked out of the academy, and for the dumbest fucking reason. what could possibly be worse than decades of harassment, intimidation, and rape?

if you guessed "piracy" then you share the Academy's moral code

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:04 (one year ago) Permalink

They kicked gore verbinski out?

"The" Blink-182 (wins), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:06 (one year ago) Permalink

It was clear she had a horrible experience with him as soon as that film came out, but sexual harassment wasn't really called out at the time.

This is my recollection as well. I mean, she pretty much immediately stopped acting entirely.

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:26 (one year ago) Permalink

AMPAS cutting Weinstein loose will end sexual harassment/assault in the industry in much the same way that Obama's election ended racism.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Sunday, 15 October 2017 15:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Polley makes a very good point in her op-ed wrt criticism towards women who knew about this didn't speak up earlier. In a country where Trump was elected and Cosby sailed through legal proceedings unscathed, why would they expect anyone to care about what they'd experienced? The burden of proof and the likely career-destroying fallout was all on their shoulders.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Sad!

It is a situation that is highly sensitive and most would probably want to keep far away from any talk of sexual misconduct. This does not include Woody Allen, who shared his thoughts on Harvey Weinstein with BBC News:

“The whole Harvey Weinstein thing is very sad for everybody involved,” he added. “Tragic for the poor women that were involved, sad for Harvey that [his] life is so messed up.

“There’s no winners in that, it’s just very, very sad and tragic for those poor women that had to go through that.”

Allen said he hoped the revelations, which emerged after an investigation by the New York Times, would lead to “some amelioration”, but said: “You also don’t want it to lead to a witch hunt atmosphere, a Salem atmosphere, where every guy in an office who winks at a woman is suddenly having to call a lawyer to defend himself. That’s not right either.

“But sure, you hope that something like this could be transformed into a benefit for people rather than just a sad or tragic situation.”

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:03 (one year ago) Permalink

He should shut up

.oO (silby), Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:24 (one year ago) Permalink

sad, tragic, tragic, sad

jmm, Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:33 (one year ago) Permalink

sad for Harvey that his life is so messed up.

boo-fuckin-hoo

Tom's Tits Experiment (Tom D.), Sunday, 15 October 2017 16:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I like that bracketed “his,” implying Woody Allen’s assessment of the situation is “sad for Harvey that life is so messed up.”

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 October 2017 17:10 (one year ago) Permalink

But despite working with Weinstein on a number of films - including the Oscar-winning Mighty Aphrodite - Allen said he had never heard any of allegations of rape and sexual assault.

"No one ever came to me or told me horror stories with any real seriousness," Allen told the BBC. "And they wouldn't, because you are not interested in it. You are interested in making your movie.

"But you do hear a million fanciful rumours all the time. And some turn out to be true and some - many - are just stories about this actress, or that actor."

So... he heard stories about Weinstein, but wasn't interested and didn't take them seriously? Is that what he's saying?

jmm, Sunday, 15 October 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

such surprising behavior from woody allen, who still isn't dead somehow

qualx, Sunday, 15 October 2017 17:20 (one year ago) Permalink

“As the husband of a daughter...” https://t.co/Wnka8UxnJc

— Katie Rich (@katiemaryrich) October 15, 2017

sublime

j., Sunday, 15 October 2017 17:35 (one year ago) Permalink

BOOM

Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 15 October 2017 17:37 (one year ago) Permalink

I wouldn’t mind if HW, Polanski, Allen, Affleck and Stone all got the Gary Glitter treatment and had all their “contributions” replaced by some young assholes from Akron

El Tomboto, Sunday, 15 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

It's ridiculous that entire months of Top Of The Pops repeats get skipped in the UK because of one presenter. There are hundreds of ppl who miss out on royalties, and had no connection to the crimes, the perpetrator, or the organisation that paid him. Far more working actors and writers would miss out on residuals that might pay for groceries if you drop any film that Weinstein bought after the fact and marketed, or Affleck played a bit part in, down a memory hole.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

That’s a really good point. Anger has remarkable blinding effects.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 15 October 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

also I don't know if the Black Keys are actually assholes, but chances are

El Tomboto, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Re: TOTP, feels to me like skipping those episodes is willfully ignoring the issue, when we should really be facing up to our complicity in it as a nation.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:20 (one year ago) Permalink

also I don't know if the Black Keys are actually assholes, but chances are

― El Tomboto, Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:13 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i've heard some bad stories about the guitarist from friends in Nashville. just a general asshole, doesn't take care of his kid, etc.

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

we should really be facing up to our complicity in it as a nation.

I'll add it to the list, but it's going to have to wait its turn and seeing how many crimes are nation is complicit in, the chances are I won't live long enough. I'm still working my way through the list of millions of SE Asians we slaughtered.

A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 15 October 2017 20:37 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp given that several of saville's victims have spoken about how awful it was to see him on tv all the time, i think cutting him out is the right move. totp is not the right forum for a serious look at an abuser

ogmor, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

what about the royalties for performers & other ppl involved?

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:16 (one year ago) Permalink

I should say I'm American & only know broad outlines of Savile's career & crimes, and I certainly understand networks here refusing to air Cosby Show reruns.

flappy bird, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

they're less important

ogmor, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

of all the reasons to stop airing reruns and therefore cause performers to lose royalities I think "the host was a pedophile" is a much better one than "the ratings aren't great." Actually I'd imagine the latter might go hand in hand with the former.

nomar, Sunday, 15 October 2017 21:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Think he was enabled not just by institutions, but also by the public's indulgence of celebrities, the same thing is going on now, famous people are given extra leeway for their behaviour because they are good at one specific thing, bad people will take advantage of this culture to do bad things. We really need to address this underlying problem and the BBC strategy is instead to aggressively ignore it.

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:03 (one year ago) Permalink

the public's indulgence of celebrities

this is also why this particular asshole and his enablers are currently all over the teevee being denounced and openly reviled. Hundreds of thousands of other victims of the same kind of assholism in other industries are still trying to figure out how to be heard.

El Tomboto, Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:30 (one year ago) Permalink

the BBC strategy is instead to aggressively ignore it.

What? You mean by not showing old TOTP episodes? The BBC did a major review of sexual harrassment and bullying in the workplace after Saville. You can read about it here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/respect-at-work-review.html

Last year there was an hour and a half doc on BBC One about Savile and his victims, and domestic abuse more broadly in Britain:
https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tvfilm/abused-bbc1-documentary-tells-the-untold-story-of-survivors-of-sexual-abuse-from-jimmy-savile-and-a3223071.html

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:41 (one year ago) Permalink

And, you know, any media organization that fires both Clarkson and Russell Brand has something going for it

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Sunday, 15 October 2017 22:43 (one year ago) Permalink

And gave Stewart Lee four series

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:11 (one year ago) Permalink

But they never gave Alan Partridge a second one :(

Number None, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:47 (one year ago) Permalink

*police bust famous celeb for being two kids in a trenchcoat*

ME: it’s important this does not become a witch hunt

MY BELLY: absolutely

— KRANG 👻 NELSON (@KrangTNelson) October 15, 2017

qualx, Monday, 16 October 2017 01:04 (one year ago) Permalink

What was the James Corben joke?

Mark G, Monday, 16 October 2017 08:30 (one year ago) Permalink

What was the James Corden joke?

typo

Mark G, Monday, 16 October 2017 08:34 (one year ago) Permalink

there were several, sub-Leno style jokes in a row, ostensibly at Weinstein's expense but toothless enough to feel like normalisation

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 16 October 2017 08:55 (one year ago) Permalink

given that several of saville's victims have spoken about how awful it was to see him on tv all the time, i think cutting him out is the right move.

absolutely, cutting him out would be the right move. they don't do that.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Monday, 16 October 2017 09:23 (one year ago) Permalink

"toothless enough to feel like normalisation" otm

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 October 2017 11:14 (one year ago) Permalink

And in 2015, Jordan Sargent wrote in his Gawker article "Tell Us What You Know About Harvey Weinstein's 'Open Secret'"[7] that "rumors of the powerful producer leveraging his industry power for sexual satisfaction—consensual or otherwise—have tended to remain unaired, confined to hushed conversation and seedier gossip-blog comment threads."[4]

johnny crunch, Monday, 16 October 2017 12:06 (one year ago) Permalink

not sure this was posted

Tone-deaf to put it mildly pic.twitter.com/6CsG3Uit1Y

— Vadim Rizov (@vrizov) October 13, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 16:10 (one year ago) Permalink

That Gawker story - combined with this DeRo profile about his R. Kelly pursuit underlines how necessary it is to have someone speaking on the record, either through the media or through the law. Changed everything with Cosby. Didn't, somehow, change things with Terry Richardson, though maybe he can be KO-ed now.

Eazy, Monday, 16 October 2017 16:17 (one year ago) Permalink

My greatest concern throughout this ordeal has been that the projected gross for Paddington 2 might be adversely affected, so I thank the Weinstein Company for taking the time to put my mind at ease.

the scarest move i ever seen is scary move 4 (Old Lunch), Monday, 16 October 2017 16:20 (one year ago) Permalink

“As the husband of a daughter...” https://t.co/Wnka8UxnJc

— Katie Rich (@katiemaryrich) October 15, 2017

sublime

nah, kinda bullshit

(mandatory disclaimer: WA is a creep and i've always said so)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 16:30 (one year ago) Permalink

I flagged T-Richardson at work a couple of years ago - he'd donated some photos for an auction we were doing. I mentioned that he might not be a good choice for a charity that deals with survivors of assault. In the end they took his name off the press release but still exhibited the photos.

Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 16 October 2017 16:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I am still waiting for Trump to tweet about Weinstein that "there are good people on both sides".

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I did see Trumps reaction.

Basically, that he's known Weinstein for years, and the stories that have come out have been no surprise.

As plain as that, I don't think I've added or lost the weight of he said

Mark G, Monday, 16 October 2017 19:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm sure they met at Clinton fundraisers back in the day

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 October 2017 19:05 (one year ago) Permalink

this is reaaaaallllly fucked up

http://nypost.com/2017/10/16/weinstein-co-gets-lifeline-from-real-estate-billionaire/

Weinstein Co. said it has won an “immediate cash infusion” from Colony, which is headed by billionaire Thomas J. Barrack Jr.

Weinstein Co. and Colony said they have also entered talks for “a potential sale of all or a significant portion of the company’s assets,” to the firm run by Barrack, a real-estate tycoon who is one of President Trump’s closest outside advisors in the business world.

. . . i mean . . . we're entering hail, caesar! territory

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/11/trumps-billionaire-friend-tom-barrack-says-hes-better-than-this.html

reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 00:55 (one year ago) Permalink

barrack bought miramax when it burst into flames too.. this isn't new for him.

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 00:57 (one year ago) Permalink

oh boy qualmsley is here now this thread will be nothing but stories about Russia from here on out

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 01:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Going back to the subject of punishing innocent bystanders who worked on films/tv shows etc. for a sec...Here in Texas we've been having a long drawn-out battle to keep our Film Commission funded and open. Surprise Surprise that GOP lawmakers are seizing on the Weinstein scandal to try to shut the agency down and deny many many Texans in the industry a source of income and the state itself revenue and tax dollars.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22492011_10214902824431986_2552834980319831246_n.jpg?oh=873025aa40b8e9cdfbe9fbfe2ca60e2b&oe=5A6D4C2C

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 01:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Also want to point out that Shaheen's final quote is massive rmde given his party's other bugaboo.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 01:40 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.avclub.com/lauren-holly-says-harvey-weinstein-showered-in-front-of-1819601394

She says it was so odd that she began to question herself, wondering if she was “just a prude,” but that changed when he got out of the shower and allegedly approached her while still naked. Holly says she wanted to run at that point, but he just told her she looked stressed and suggested that she give him a massage.

well ok then

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 03:54 (one year ago) Permalink

every one of these stories gives me the fear, deep in my stomach

imagine being her & reading sorvino’s story for the first time after thinking all those years it was just you

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 04:30 (one year ago) Permalink

It is almost laughable, that he used the same fucking technique, over and over and over and over. What the fuck is wrong with him.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 04:35 (one year ago) Permalink

it’s not for them. it’s for him. it’s whatever pattern he’s established ~for himself~ that makes him feel powerful & in control enough to rob them of theirs

pedophiles, serial rapists, serial abusers, serial killers...there’s a whole section of all of these offenders that settle into an established pattern, especially if they are using their own home/office/place of business as their base of operation

if they dont have to travel to find their victims they dont have to be creative

it’s gross but it’s true

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 04:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Never framed it that way in my mind, ugh.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 05:04 (one year ago) Permalink

and that hotel in Cannes, Du Cap, seemed like it was a second home. I wonder if it ever "worked" for him there and he was always trying to recapture it? or if there was just some platonic ideal in his mind of how it would go down? and each attempt with each aspiring actress was like trying to beat a level on some videogame

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 06:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm sure it always "worked" in his mind

Number None, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 12:49 (one year ago) Permalink

there’s a whole section of all of these offenders that settle into an established pattern

Yeah the sameness of the Weinstein accounts reminded me of the same thing in the Bill Cosby accounts -- in each case, there was such a clear m.o., repeated over and over for years.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:25 (one year ago) Permalink

And a...response.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Ugh. Not really worth parsing that, but the obvious thing to say is that he is conflating sexual attraction with sexual objectification. It is possible to be attracted to someone without turning them into an object.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:34 (one year ago) Permalink

not if you're medusa

ATTACK MY RUSTY TOOLBOX (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Or King Midas. But apart from them.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:37 (one year ago) Permalink

oh boy qualmsley is here now this thread will be nothing but stories about Russia from here on out

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 02:30 (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lmao at you accusing someone of being one-note

ultros ultros-ghali, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:51 (one year ago) Permalink

the objectification thing is largely a consequence of the legal dehumanization of women over the centuries. it was less than a hundred years ago they got the right to vote. before that they were legally treated as property. its dehumanization deeply rooted in world society.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:54 (one year ago) Permalink

For sure. And has to be resisted on all fronts. To write a defense of it as the natural order of things is ... well ok it's National Review.

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:56 (one year ago) Permalink

reading that made me feel sick

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:59 (one year ago) Permalink

the link, not the above post

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 13:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Dennis Praeger is among the grossest people ever to have bylines in publications whose names aren't direct references to nazi propaganda.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 14:55 (one year ago) Permalink

THAT guy is still around? they really work til they drop dead, don't they

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:20 (one year ago) Permalink

you cannot kill what does not live

midas / medusa cage match (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Dennis Praeger's reflections on his third marriage:

Many people advised me against marrying again. After all, they argued, I had no plans to have more children. And we live in a society that hardly demands marriage, let alone the remarriage of middle aged individuals. More than a few men additionally argued that I would come to value my “freedom.”

To be honest, I understood these arguments, but I believe that marriage is the greatest of all social institutions; I happen to agree with God who said in Genesis, “It is not good for man to be alone.”

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Through all that I have experienced, I believe I can fairly say that I have learned a great deal about men, women, and marriage. It is one reason I began the “Male-Female Hour” – to help others in relating to the other sex and in their marriages.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:28 (one year ago) Permalink

"Drunk driving is what men do, it's totally normal. And further, by repeatedly getting wasted and crashing my car, I can say that I have learned a lot about driving, and I'd like to share that knowledge with others."

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:29 (one year ago) Permalink

'i've always said you can't be a good bomb disposal expert until you've been atomised by an improvised explosive device, and now, on my new radio show, i enjoy helping other clouds of thin red mist settle into the next phase of their lives'

midas / medusa cage match (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Come on, you can't realistically expect marriage to be different than any other pursuit that you give up on without having made any real effort.

You don't know how bad I hate terrible grammer. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 15:55 (one year ago) Permalink

yesterday i started to read that Rosenberg response and it felt very very "tough guy" in a way that was off-putting.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Funny thing was I was randomly thinking of Beautiful Girls the other day maybe in response to all this. Then I read this garbage tone poem and think "Not once do I see any mention of you actively trying to DO anything in the rest of your life to right the balance."

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Never mind that what he's doing is saying the exact same thing he is criticizing the Hollywood men who have spoken before him has said ("I didn't realize it went as far as rape"), only while angrily waving his finger at them and telling them that they suck.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Christ, what an asshole

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

as per usual DJP makes the pertinent point

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:27 (one year ago) Permalink

"EVERY BODY KNEW

except i didn't really know"

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Agreed. Although I still think his explanation about why no one did anything is probably correct -- what action can you take? You can quietly warn actresses you know (although, as pointed out above, men had their own careers ruined for doing so when discovered), you can decline to work with him. You can't go to the police without someone to press charges. You can't write publicly about it without risking defamation lawsuits (and potentially disrespecting the wishes of victims).

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:32 (one year ago) Permalink

yes but i'm also not sure the point of the piece except a) i'm not a bad guy, and b) please god why won't someone hire me to write a movie

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:34 (one year ago) Permalink

what action can you take? You can quietly warn actresses you know (although, as pointed out above, men had their own careers ruined for doing so when discovered), you can decline to work with him.

exactly, and declining to work being the "right move" means only the morally depraved end up working for him, expanding his circle of power. stay and you may be exploited but you may also be saving someone else who would have to take your place. the less sycophants around scumbags, the better?

imo ultimately it seems to be a personal choice to make and i can't fault anyone who was victimized for continuing to work in these realms. escape if you must or stay and fight if you want to, changing things from the inside.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

it is encouraging to see more and more people coming out in different fields (in videogames there is a big shakeup at Naughty Dog though i dont know the details) people at large are making it clear that predatory behavior is unacceptable.

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 16:47 (one year ago) Permalink

ugh garbage tone-poem is right -xposts

it makes it that much shittier that 3/4 of that screenwriter guy’s post is devoted to underlining how great things were for him & “everyone”

i’m sure it is coming from the right place but it’s so tin-eared. it’s like the he thinks he needs to show how great he had it for us to appreciate how awful Weinstein is ... and that is super, duuuuper not what is needed

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 17:40 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't understand anyone writing defenses or explanations, especially when they're involved in the film industry, even at the most tangential level. Just shut up. Same goes for all actors making poofball nothing statements.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

otm

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 17:45 (one year ago) Permalink

a dude shouldn't be the one stepping up to explain why nobody said anything, and i'm not sure why the hell Rosenberg thought a hard-boiled novella was what was called for. well i mean i *know* why, he's a bro working in Hollywood. not a hero, not brave.

i was talking to my wife about all this last night, she said her thought was this story is causing this outpouring bc it's just women collectively being sick and tired and furious about everything over the past year-plus, especially related to Trump and his administration, and this disgusting piece of shit using his position to assault these iconic, famous women is sort of the tipping point.

she related a story to me about a guy who worked for her company taking her out to lunch years ago, and she felt uncomfortable about it because his vibe was all wrong, but her co-workers were like, oh don't worry, he just wants to get to know you, he takes everyone out to lunch. at lunch he vented that his marriage wasn't great, his wife didn't understand him, and he really liked her and was interested. after lunch she went right to her boss and said, i never want to work with him again and never want to see him again. and she was lucky, her boss understood and made that happen.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

"And do you know how I am sure this is true?
Because I was there."

I can't help hearing this poem in the cadence of "Losing My Edge".

jmm, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:00 (one year ago) Permalink

The more people who say "everyone knew", the better. We need to be reminded over and over again how normalized that kind of behavior is.

I don't dig the vibe--conditional apologies are shit.

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Harvey Weinstein, who was fired from Weinstein Co. on Oct. 8, has now "resigned" from the company's board, according to a source. More TKTK.

— Brian Stelter (@brianstelter) October 17, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:21 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost -- Smith sticks to that commitment for the rest of his days, well, good on him. Now what more can he do?

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Molly Ringwald:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/all-the-other-harveys

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

that's concise and infuriating

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:28 (one year ago) Permalink

and totally relatable. esp the part about dissociating :(

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:31 (one year ago) Permalink

In my twenties, I was blindsided during an audition, when I was asked by the director, in a somewhat rhetorical manner, to let the lead actor put a dog collar around my neck. This was not even remotely in the pages I had studied; I could not even fathom how it made sense in the story. The actor was a friend of mine, and I looked in his eyes with panic. He looked back at me with an “I’m really sorry” expression on his face as his hands reached out toward my neck. I don’t even know if the collar ever made it on me, because that’s the closest I’ve had to an out-of-body experience. I’d like to think that I just walked out, but, more than likely, there’s an old VHS tape, disintegrating in a drawer somewhere, of me trying to remember lines with a dog collar around my neck in front of a young man I once had a crush on. I sobbed in the parking lot, and when I got home and called my agent to tell him what happened, he laughed and said, “Well, I guess that’s one for the memoirs. . . .” I fired him and moved to Paris not long after.

Jesus christ

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Put this on every fkn billboard in the country

I never talked about these things publicly because, as a woman, it has always felt like I may as well have been talking about the weather. Stories like these have never been taken seriously. Women are shamed, told they are uptight, nasty, bitter, can’t take a joke, are too sensitive. And the men? Well, if they’re lucky, they might get elected President.

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

the head of a major studio—and, incidentally, someone who claims himself to be horrified by the Harvey allegations—was quoted as saying, “I wouldn’t know [Molly Ringwald] if she sat on my face.”

this was jeffrey katzenberg

mookieproof, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

yep

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:53 (one year ago) Permalink

jeez what a prick

http://movieline.com/1995/09/01/sixteen-candles-in-the-wind/

piscesx, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:54 (one year ago) Permalink

My lack of surprise.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:54 (one year ago) Permalink

damn

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

My gut reaction here is along the lines of "NOBODY MESSES WITH MOLLY R" tbh

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

It's great how she sued the collective Weinstein ass and got paid, then never had to deal with them again.

piscesx, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:02 (one year ago) Permalink

she also seems on point on his lack of artistic taste... even worse than Tarantino.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:04 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/game-thrones-star-lena-headey-recalls-harvey-weinstein-174429568.html

Lena Headey w/a very unpleasant story too

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:14 (one year ago) Permalink

the shot at Terry Gilliam seems illuminating, i was checking the wiki for The Brothers Grimm and while she obviously still remembers the abusive behavior, it's interesting to see how Matt Damon saw it

"I'm used to riding roughshod over studio executives," Gilliam explained, "but the Weinsteins rode roughshod over me."[4] Gilliam got so upset, filming was shut down for nearly two weeks. Matt Damon reflected on the situation: "I've never been in a situation like that. Terry was spitting rage at the system, at the Weinsteins. You can't try and impose big compromises on a visionary director like him. If you try to force him to do what you want creatively, he'll go nuclear."[4]

vv understanding of the pressures visionary men come under

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Bob could also get a deserved due, it seems.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/bob-weinstein-sexual-harassment-1202592165/

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:22 (one year ago) Permalink

I love this:

How about Robert Downey Jr., opposite whom she did The Pick-up Artist? "Drinking didn't seem to be his drug of choice at the time," she observes, wryly. "That was kind of obvious, not so much in his behavior as in the long times he spent in the trailer and the people that were sort of hanging around the set. When one person's doing drugs and the other person isn't, they can't--well, let's say. I wasn't somebody he could associate with. I talked with him after the movie and he seems like a different person from the guy I was doing that movie with. I really wasn't crazy about Chaplin, though. I mean, for such a fascinating life as Charlie Chaplin's, it's the dullest movie."

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

During the dinner, (Bob) Weinstein asked Segel highly intimate questions and made romantic overtures to her, according to Segel. He wanted to know her age because he told her he didn’t want to date anyone younger than his daughter.

Because that would be creepy.

nickn, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

He wanted to know her age because he told her he didn’t want to date anyone younger than his daughter.

hero

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:35 (one year ago) Permalink

sadly not surprised about Gilliam being a jerk re: Lena Headey. love his earlier movies but pretty sure he's had a bad set reputation for some time

Nhex, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Ringwald::
When I was fourteen, a married film director stuck his tongue in my mouth on set.

Paul Mazursky?

Eazy, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

I thought of that film too, but I suspect she was 13 when that was shot, looking at the dates involved.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

ugh ugh ugh

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:09 (one year ago) Permalink

That dog collar story is very affecting, something about the way she described it really made me feel the horror of it

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

there were only a couple of films where it could have occurred, one of them being a TV film. xp

a friend of a friend on FB discussed being in a film back in 2000 where the hard partying director sent for her, then tried to pressure her into taking her clothes off, implying her part could be cut down (or completely cut) if she didn't. ultimately she didn't, she managed to escape, and he didn't cut the part.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Just confirmed with Amazon that Roy Price has resigned. HT to @brianstelter for getting it first. Or at least I think he got it first.

— Nick Wingfield (@nickwingfield) October 17, 2017

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:40 (one year ago) Permalink

That dog collar story is very affecting, something about the way she described it really made me feel the horror of it

note that in the Movieline interview, closer to the time, she says the director had her male friend / co-star remove his belt, fasten it around her neck, and lead her with it as a leash

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:05 (one year ago) Permalink

the movieline interview creeps me out, written as it is in such a patronizing and objectifying manner. This is not something that I think is specific to that piece either, because whenever I read interviews or profiles of women written by these male journalists the tone is unfortunately commonly just like that.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:12 (one year ago) Permalink

I couldn't make it through the first page.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

the last line about "if Molly Ringwald keeps her head on straight she'll be just fine" or however it was put was infuriating.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:33 (one year ago) Permalink

The Ringwald quotes suggest her intelligence and vivacity; it's the transitions that condescend to her. That headline too!

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Reading that Ringwald interview I experienced this strange sort of consciousness rift, something I've been experiencing in other places too lately, where I recognized a certain way of talking about women as totally familiar from when I was growing up and at the same time felt like I had suddenly woke up to how repugnant it was.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 21:57 (one year ago) Permalink

I recognize now that a lot of the attitudes and behavior and mannerisms described in these types of interviews are also quite commonly a direct reflection of how the male interviewer is behaving, rather than an accurate picture of who the interviewee is. They read as legitimate defense mechanisms.

nomar, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:04 (one year ago) Permalink

I recognized a certain way of talking about women as totally familiar from when I was growing up and at the same time felt like I had suddenly woke up to how repugnant it was.

otm. The style has only recently started to disappear too.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

It's not exactly like suddenly poking your head out of a pool of sewage, it's more like getting a few miles above the sewage, forgetting it, and then suddenly looking down and being like "oh wait, I grew up in that sewage."

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:09 (one year ago) Permalink

The style has only recently started to disappear too

The style is still extremely prevalent, though less ubiquitous.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:33 (one year ago) Permalink

In this very forum we still have that Lohan "hot ready and legal!" headline as a freaking thread title, so.

(evry time that thread would pop to the top I'd feel a bit ill)

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:35 (one year ago) Permalink

it was a headline on the cover of Rolling Stone; i'm p sure the thread title was mocking it (but i agree that seeing it pop up on New Answers is kind of gross regardless)

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 23:10 (one year ago) Permalink

Oh yeah I was aware it was a RS cover but yeah.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 23:11 (one year ago) Permalink

And also just the fact that it was a Rolling Stone cover.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 00:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Your years and my years were very different. https://t.co/8u0BdLaHYQ

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 18, 2017

nomar, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 16:08 (one year ago) Permalink

good thread too

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:21 (one year ago) Permalink

good point on that thread that Rosenberg's piece seems to be more about wistfully reliving his glory days in Hollywood hanging out w/Weinstein more than it seems to be about honest self-examination.

nomar, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:27 (one year ago) Permalink

“and, it should be noted: there were many who actually succumbed to his bulky charms. Willingly. “

This negates every word in his “prose”.

— Jocelyn Stanton (@jocelynmstanton) October 18, 2017

I momentarily cringed when I read that line but initially chose to overlook it, and that's like a microcosm of the way we as men often overlook such things. Looking at it in isolation though it's really awful -- "By the way, even though he raped women, some women also slept with him willingly," What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Let alone "succumbed" and "bulky charms." Disgusting.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Just briefly going back to the LiLo RS thing, imagine all the back patting in their offices when they genderflipped the same headline some years later...

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/691571/thumbs/o-JUSTIN-BIEBER-LINDAY-LOHAN-HOT-READY-LEGAL-570.jpg?6

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Ha! Just noticed that Bieber cover has a headline that inspired another long-running ILX thread.

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Global Warming: Mysteries of Batman.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Global Warming: Hot, Ready, and Legal

jmm, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Two different ILX thread titles on one cover, sort of

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:45 (one year ago) Permalink

i know it doesn't mean anything just felt like it was my civic duty to post that picture....

scott seward, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

good ol' ?oh=2896f78c2b25a85a6d5a9357c1be40fd&oe=5A78 and OJ Simpson

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 18:31 (one year ago) Permalink

?Oh= to his pals

Mark G, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 18:52 (one year ago) Permalink

did that picture not show up? it's a dumb picture anyway. though scorsese-movie-extra harvey isn't a sight you see much.

scott seward, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:16 (one year ago) Permalink

I see it. now I can't unsee it.

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

young harvey clearly taking fashion and grooming tips from ron jeremy

midas / medusa cage match (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:19 (one year ago) Permalink

he looks like mark ruffalo a bit

johnny crunch, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:26 (one year ago) Permalink

jesus don't give ruffalo an epic rise and fall of harvey movie idea. although..........

scott seward, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

he'd have to go the full lamotta.

scott seward, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 19:32 (one year ago) Permalink

looks like Al Lettieri in The Getaway

nomar, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

Jeff Garlin is the obvious pick for a Harvey Weinstein biopic.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 21:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Whoever the fake-Harvey was on Entourage did it well.

Eazy, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

In Quebec today, a major radio/TV personality (Eric Salvail) was put on leave following a major report on his workplace sexual harassment. The Weinstein affair reportedly motivated the main accuser to go public.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/quebec-media-star-eric-salvail-on-leave-following-allegations-of-sexual-harassment/article36641603/

12 hours later, one of the most powerful men in Quebec culture - Gilbert Rozon, founder of the Just For Laughs comedy festival - has stepped down as similar allegations begin to surface:
http://www.lapresse.ca/arts/201710/18/01-5140481-allegations-dinconduite-sexuelle-gilbert-rozon-demissionne-de-ses-fonctions.php

sean gramophone, Thursday, 19 October 2017 01:17 (one year ago) Permalink

I liked that Bloodworth-Thomason piece a lot, but I still don't understand the free pass that is given to Bill Clinton. Does she just not believe the allegations against him from multiple women?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 19 October 2017 01:43 (one year ago) Permalink

However, I will be the first to admit that clearly delineated moral choices can still be painfully complex where friendship is involved. One of the best friends I will ever have and a man I love dearly, former President Bill Clinton, has certainly taxed my feminist conscience, but always without diminishing my affection. I even helped write his apology to the nation for his own sexual misconduct, was sitting next to him when he delivered it, and believe to this day it was based on something that was none of our business. And yes, some may call it hypocritical, but I confess to having had no problem warning at least three top-level Democratic operatives against allowing Harvey Weinstein to host political fundraisers. A warning that evidently (and to the glee of Fox News) fell on deaf ears.

yeah this is unfortunately right-wing fodder for left-wing hypocrisy.

nomar, Thursday, 19 October 2017 01:45 (one year ago) Permalink

painfully phony

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 October 2017 01:51 (one year ago) Permalink

otoh, quebec is outlawing the use of scarves and sunglasses ('while receiving public services') in an attempt to stamp out creeping sharia

mookieproof, Thursday, 19 October 2017 02:04 (one year ago) Permalink

what Morbs said

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Thursday, 19 October 2017 02:32 (one year ago) Permalink

had to wonder if this had always been the case, but the first piece of trivia" that appears when I just watched "Caddyshack" on Amazon was:

"Cindy Morgan did not want to appear topless in the movie. While Harold Ramis was amenable to changing the scene, producer Jon Peters asked to talk to her while Ramis had her on the phone. When the call ended, Peters informed Ramis that Morgan would do the topless scene--because he told her she would never work again in Hollywood if she didn't."

quick search later and

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/jon-peters-sexual-harassment.html

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Thursday, 19 October 2017 04:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Then another major Quebec media personality today:

[DERNIÈRE HEURE] L'animateur vedette @GillesParent visé par des allégations d'inconduites sexuelles #JDQ https://t.co/g9RCAbpUly pic.twitter.com/MY2m2nWSgt

— Le Journal de Québec (@JdeQuebec) October 19, 2017

I mention all this because it occurs to me that one of the possible outcomes of the (snowballing) Ghomeshi/Cosby/Weinstein parade is not a major upset of systemic misogyny and sexual harassment or assault, but just a slaying of some of the (hundreds of) big whales.

sean gramophone, Thursday, 19 October 2017 18:20 (one year ago) Permalink

yep, there is quite a lot of light being shed, it seems.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 October 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Can't help but hope that slaying a bunch of the whales and upsetting systemic misogyny are interrelated

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 19 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

now Ann Coulter of all people is going after the gossip columnists who wrote the hit pieces on Ambra Gutierrez. it must be the "Democratic donor" angle w/Weinstein that got her going.

nomar, Thursday, 19 October 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Tarantino speaks

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/movies/tarantino-weinstein.html

“I knew enough to do more than I did,” he said, citing several episodes involving prominent actresses. “There was more to it than just the normal rumors, the normal gossip. It wasn’t secondhand. I knew he did a couple of these things.”

“I wish I had taken responsibility for what I heard,” he added. “If I had done the work I should have done then, I would have had to not work with him.”

Uh.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

well, that seems like one of the more honest apologies at least, although it's hard to understand why he didn't do anything even with his own girlfriend getting harassed.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:35 (one year ago) Permalink

The anecdotes coming from men are really just stark illustrations of the ludicrous amount of power this shitbag wielded in his corner of the world.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 19 October 2017 21:42 (one year ago) Permalink

also indicative of those men's tolerance of assholes with power

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:26 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm not defending him, but QT's career would've been over (or at the very least radically different/diminished) if he tried to buck his major benefactor. Weinstein's industry power was basically hush money for people like QT.

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:35 (one year ago) Permalink

and yeah obviously people like QT ultimately weighed getting to make their movies the way they wanted to as being worth more than their coworkers/employees/significant others' safety

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

otm

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:38 (one year ago) Permalink

frankly I think Tarantino comes off about as well as he possibly could in that piece, given his own admitted culpability

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:41 (one year ago) Permalink

I dunno. Weinstein was no doubt instrumental in turning Tarantino into a star director, but he became a star pretty early on. Basically, after Pulp Fiction he could have got anyone to produce his films, he was probably just more comfortable continuing with Weinstein. There weren't too many people who could have challenged Weinstein without paying much of a price, but I'd say Tarantino was one of them.

Zelda Zonk, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:49 (one year ago) Permalink

there is so much dodgy shit in Tarantino's films that other studios/producers would have balked at

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:51 (one year ago) Permalink

not to mention ridiculous money-losing schemes like 70mm roadshows and grindhouse double feature tours

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Is it an honest apology though? He really only heard about Weinstein's bad behavior secondhand? They collaborated for over two decades.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:53 (one year ago) Permalink

what would firsthand be? witnessing it? participating in it?

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:54 (one year ago) Permalink

He says "It wasn’t secondhand".

jmm, Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Hateful 8 made 100 million over production budget, 70mm screenings sold well and got the film twice the publicity it would have otherwise

Printing the programmes for each territory probably cut into things, but that's on the local distributors/exhibitors, not Weinstein Co

xpost

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Thursday, 19 October 2017 22:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Past Tarantino interviews and books have suggested he found Harvey's publicly-known behaviour personally disturbing, but that nobody fought harder to get them, which indicates how hard he'd fight to sell them.

(This could back up Shakey's perception of Grindhouse as a boondoggle, being a Bob joint)

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:01 (one year ago) Permalink

there is so much dodgy shit in Tarantino's films that other studios/producers would have balked at


So the fuck what, though? So the fuck what.

El Tomboto, Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:07 (one year ago) Permalink

not to mention ridiculous money-losing schemes like 70mm roadshows and grindhouse double feature tours


Our culture can live without it, I think

El Tomboto, Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:09 (one year ago) Permalink

no argument there

Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:18 (one year ago) Permalink

w/out Weinstein we might've been spared Q's career

o brave new world

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 October 2017 23:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Maybe I'm just old/jaded/grumpy but I've come to think art is overvalued when it's weighed against this level of victimization. I don't even like Tarantino, but even if it was someone I liked I'd trade their whole body of work to end systemic rape and molestation.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 00:59 (one year ago) Permalink

That sounds kind of duh now that I read it back.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Someone's films? Sure. Think the entire system's morally corrupt anyway, predatory men becoming (consciously or unconciously (though the latter's a bit generous, we're not talking paedophilia)) directors/producers due to access to beautiful young (and ever younger, since they control so much casting) women, etc.

albvivertine, Friday, 20 October 2017 01:10 (one year ago) Permalink

in many cases we ARE talking about paedophilia

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:11 (one year ago) Permalink

I dunno. Weinstein was no doubt instrumental in turning Tarantino into a star director, but he became a star pretty early on. Basically, after Pulp Fiction he could have got anyone to produce his films, he was probably just more comfortable continuing with Weinstein. There weren't too many people who could have challenged Weinstein without paying much of a price, but I'd say Tarantino was one of them.

― Zelda Zonk, Thursday, October 19, 2017 6:49 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he could've easily become a flash in the pan after Pulp Fiction. i can totally see him being the Michael Cimino of the 90s in another universe. i mean i think he could've done Jackie Brown with another studio, but probably not Kill Bill. not excusing it of course but the Weinsteins could and did destroy lives and careers over this shit. QT along with many others stayed silent to avoid that personal destruction, moreso than any allegiance to Harvey & Bob.

flappy bird, Friday, 20 October 2017 01:12 (one year ago) Permalink

the USA is built on slavery and genocide

behind every great fortune/nation/industry lies a crime

or as Jerry Lewis said of '50s Vegas, "THOSE GUYS knew how to run this town."

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:14 (one year ago) Permalink

To be honest Tarantino also stayed at Miramax because the entire industry is rife with misogynistic, controlling assholes and at least Harvey was in his corner. There are worse out there and I guess QT was comfortable living with the kind of harassment he alluded to as “chasing the secretary around the desk,” as opposed to options he considered worse (either professionally or ethically).

rb (soda), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:17 (one year ago) Permalink

It’s telling how few A-list male directors/producers have spoken openly and in an enlightened way about this, I think. Lots of skeletons being buried deep in lots of closets, shirts thrown over the top, and the Academy’s general kicking-out saving a lot of top-shelf talent from having to make hypocritical comments that might draw the bead on their own NDAs.

rb (soda), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:22 (one year ago) Permalink

The most telling thing to me in Tarantino's comments was the reference to the "boss chasing the secretary around the desk," which he then immediately acknowledged was not OK as a trope. It speaks to how engrained all of this is in the culture, it's been the stuff of jokes and gags and knowing invocations of the "casting couch" for decades. That doesn't excuse anybody, but there is a whole sense of a bunch of people suddenly going, "Oh, wait ... this thing we're all used to is actually terrible."

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:40 (one year ago) Permalink

similar to Woody Allen's "the guy winking in the office," but he's almost 30 years older

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Tipsy OTM, that's what I was getting at upthread as well.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 01:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Lupita Nyongo’s story...infuriating...hallelujah for these women tho seriously

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/opinion/lupita-nyongo-harvey-weinstein.html

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 October 2017 04:47 (one year ago) Permalink

if there was a tarantino type who did stand up to him, would we know who he is now?

as i recall, kate beckinsale said one of her male friends, an actor, did stand up to him, and was essentially blackballed

i 1000% agree men need to stand up more just across the board, and recognize their complicity when they dont. i also think there's something inherent in the system that makes it so both men and women are discouraged from doing so. It breaks your heart to read an almost *guilty* feeling in Lupita Nyongo's essay, like she's lamenting she didn't do more about it.

but yeah I mean the system is set up so that powerful people can do what they want, capitalism is a ponzi scheme for effectively channeling sociopaths in the hopes theyre at least economically productive while being sociopathic monsters right

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 20 October 2017 05:55 (one year ago) Permalink

all roads lead to the end of the world

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 20 October 2017 05:56 (one year ago) Permalink

I was thinking about what made this takedown of a powerful predator successful, and I think one thing is having a number of women's stories all go public at the same time. That's makes it undeniable. It's sort of unfortunate because you won't always have that, but there's probably a lesson there in going after habitual predators.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 12:12 (one year ago) Permalink

To be honest Tarantino also stayed at Miramax because the entire industry is rife with misogynistic, controlling assholes and at least Harvey was in his corner.

See also: Don Simpson.

Eazy, Friday, 20 October 2017 12:20 (one year ago) Permalink

I thought I liked Miramax more than I do. Aside from a few pretty Oscar-bait films (The English Patient, The Wings of the Dove, Malèna), I could easily live without the catalogue.

prelude to abjection (Sanpaku), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:03 (one year ago) Permalink

the system is set up so that powerful people can do what they want, capitalism is a ponzi scheme for effectively channeling sociopaths in the hopes theyre at least economically productive while being sociopathic monsters right

ding ding ding

a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:07 (one year ago) Permalink

"Oh, wait ... this thing we're all used to is actually terrible."

women have been saying this is terrible and no one has taken them seriously until now
if this is the dawn of a new age in which people believe women, i'll feel like it's a net win for society

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 20 October 2017 13:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Even for me as someone with relatively feminist parents I feel a consciousness shift happening in myself.

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 14:01 (one year ago) Permalink

hot

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Friday, 20 October 2017 15:18 (one year ago) Permalink

women have been saying this is terrible and no one has taken them seriously until now
if this is the dawn of a new age in which people believe women, i'll feel like it's a net win for society

Yes. Let's hope. And by "a bunch of people" I mostly meant a bunch of men, although I think women have been acculturated in a lot of the same ways, to accept that "that's just the way things are." So the awakening there is maybe less "Oh, this is terrible" than "Oh, we can do something about this?"

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Friday, 20 October 2017 16:04 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah -- i recommend men watch out for their usage of "we"
it's frequently unclear who "we" are

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 20 October 2017 16:09 (one year ago) Permalink

"what do you mean we, white man?"

El Tomboto, Friday, 20 October 2017 16:14 (one year ago) Permalink

NY Post's Page Six:

Weinstein is currently in Arizona for sex addiction treatment; a source tells the Post, "In one group therapy session, Harvey arrived 15 minutes late. Then, when it was his turn to speak, he launched into a speech about how this is all a conspiracy against him... Harvey fell asleep in his chair [during others' personal stories]. He was only woken up by the ringing of his smuggled mobile phone [which is banned at the facility] ... Harvey jolted awake, jumped up, immediately took the call and then ran out of the room."

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 October 2017 16:29 (one year ago) Permalink

1) "sex addiction" um yeah no, you're a fucking predator
2) what the fuck is wrong with people spying on therapy groups, fuck this fucking world

brimstead, Friday, 20 October 2017 16:40 (one year ago) Permalink

oh it was probably one of the attendees. fuck people.

brimstead, Friday, 20 October 2017 16:40 (one year ago) Permalink

i guess i probably would've blabbed

brimstead, Friday, 20 October 2017 16:40 (one year ago) Permalink

he does seem pretty special even within the field of multi-millionaire egotist sexual abusers

ogmor, Friday, 20 October 2017 16:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm currently in treatment for my addiction to lighting matches. You're welcome, people whose houses I torched. You're welcome.

I believe I will have another helping of your scrumptious casserole (Old Lunch), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:01 (one year ago) Permalink

is like 'sex addiction' like "addiction to popsicles"

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:04 (one year ago) Permalink

yea wtf i would've blabbed too if dude ruined my group therapy session

flappy bird, Friday, 20 October 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

group therapy with a Famous Person would be the worst ever

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

ppl i know who've sought help for "compulsive sexual behavior" engaged in it (afaik) with consensual partners.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:22 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe that part with a Famous Person would not be the worst ever

Randall Jarrell (dandydonweiner), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:27 (one year ago) Permalink

sex addiction is a real thing but I don't think it has any necessary correlation with predation

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:28 (one year ago) Permalink

Help, I'm addicted to avoiding ownership of my behavior by seeking treatment which fails to address my sociopathic tendencies.

I believe I will have another helping of your scrumptious casserole (Old Lunch), Friday, 20 October 2017 17:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Sociopathy is untreatable.

Mordy, Friday, 20 October 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

ugh wtf Italy

change display name (Jordan), Friday, 20 October 2017 18:03 (one year ago) Permalink

jesus

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 October 2017 18:09 (one year ago) Permalink

I am shocked - SHOCKED - that the country that repeatedly elected Berlusconi and convicted "Foxy Knoxy" is deeply mysognistic

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:17 (one year ago) Permalink

surely we can still express some dismay/empathy for the person tho

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 October 2017 20:20 (one year ago) Permalink

absolutely, my comment was more of a "Italy pvmic" thing

Οὖτις, Friday, 20 October 2017 20:23 (one year ago) Permalink

wait, Italy posts here?

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Friday, 20 October 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

with the tip o' the Boot

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 20 October 2017 20:26 (one year ago) Permalink

LA Times reporting that 38 women have come forward about director James Toback, yet another in the endless line of gross predators

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-mn-james-toback-sexual-harassment-allegations-20171018-story.html

The final story in this piece is so gross & haunting

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 22 October 2017 22:54 (one year ago) Permalink

Writer, The Pick-up Artist (1987). Director, Seduced and Abandoned (2013) and The Private Life of a Modern Woman (2017)

prelude to abjection (Sanpaku), Sunday, 22 October 2017 23:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Study finds 75 percent of workplace harassment victims experienced retaliation when they spoke up https://t.co/tm86j45Ngz

— Vox (@voxdotcom) October 21, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 October 2017 23:53 (one year ago) Permalink

What is wrong with these men. Kneeling in front of women and dry humping them like a dog? I mean that sounds fucking pathological.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Sunday, 22 October 2017 23:58 (one year ago) Permalink

whatever pathetically insufficient social mechanisms exist for regulating that sort of pathology just don't seem to function when the power imbalance is that great, so these guys just get to keep kidding themselves that it's all ok

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 23 October 2017 00:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Good piece

Why the Harvey Weinstein allegations could change our culture https://t.co/KWCoXfTTCT

— Rolling Stone (@RollingStone) October 22, 2017

flappy bird, Monday, 23 October 2017 00:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Over/under on the first Btl comment referencing matt taibbi?

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (Bananaman Begins), Monday, 23 October 2017 00:33 (one year ago) Permalink

the dude who produced the "Open Secret" documentary is either right-wing or is taking what allies he can get, with his constant retweeting of Mike Cernovich regarding the film. i suspect he'd find plenty of sympathizers on the left so i suspect it's more the former.

nomar, Monday, 23 October 2017 17:05 (one year ago) Permalink

This is fun: the 47 METERS DOWN director has Things To Say about Bob Weinstein, shooting in water tanks, etc. https://t.co/PNrpyzOnVQ pic.twitter.com/njsa8cdumh

— Vadim Rizov (@vrizov) October 23, 2017

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 23 October 2017 21:43 (one year ago) Permalink

This is just horrible.

Updating again: Since this story published on Sunday, 193 additional women have contacted me to talk about Toback. https://t.co/beVGHWpdmc

— Glenn Whipp (@GlennWhipp) October 23, 2017

Ned Raggett, Monday, 23 October 2017 23:26 (one year ago) Permalink

the toback thing isn't even news. I guess the extremely gross explicit details are, but this has been on salon, gawker, everything for years. good to hear people are finally caring.

akm, Monday, 23 October 2017 23:58 (one year ago) Permalink

there was a Spy magazine article about it w/ interviews w/ a bunch of women back in like 1989 or something

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 23 October 2017 23:59 (one year ago) Permalink

yes, 1989.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:15 (one year ago) Permalink

wow congratulations you all knew first - the line starts over there for prizes

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 01:28 (one year ago) Permalink

you guys are such dicks sometimes

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 01:29 (one year ago) Permalink

well i don’t think it’s a “prize” thing as much as it is “why the fuck has everyone waited so long to believe women” thing

maura, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:08 (one year ago) Permalink

true

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:13 (one year ago) Permalink

it's gotta be Taibbi's turn soon right

Simon H., Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Man I actually didn’t know that about Toback but his movies are so fucking gross I feel like I should have. Ughhhhhh I need 5000 drinks.

horseshoe, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:16 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah toback is more like cosby where it wasn't even an open secret, it was just... out in the open. i learned he was a sex creep before i knew any of his actual film credits (bugsy included). he doesn't even seem like a remotely powerful person in hollywood but he's acted like he's immortal for decades. when's the last time anyone's given a fuck about james toback's film career? would anyone have wondered where he went if he disappeared 15 years ago? he wasn't being protected by hollywood, he was allowed to be like this for decades for the same reason every unimportant man is allowed to be a sex creep without repercussion

qualx, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:33 (one year ago) Permalink

He doesnt even sound like that big of a bigshot hollywood deal, certainly not a breaker if a maker (like weinstein was able to shut people up). I'm not victim blaming here but I dont get how he fooled so many women into fucking gross shit like HUMPING THEIR LEG TIL HE ORGASMED. Ugh ugh fucking die.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Tragically wearing a fedora in the photo attached to the article

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 03:11 (one year ago) Permalink

https://twitter.com/search?q=terry%20richardson&src=typd

Eazy, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

Er, meant that to be this.

Terry Richardson and woody Allen
What a great picture!!!!! Wait , where is Weinstein ?#terryrichardson #WoodyAllen pic.twitter.com/SshGmsYdOM

— Sovantha (@Sonith9) October 24, 2017

Eazy, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:15 (one year ago) Permalink

where is cuttyhorse

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:38 (one year ago) Permalink

that is an *exceptionally* terrible statement

nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I love all the centrist dem pundits on twitter calling this "slander" when they were pushing that Jeff Stein Vox piece on "misogyny on the left" about a fucking podcast. this is otm:

Weren’t you just trying to call out misogyny on the left? It’s almost as if you don’t really care about female safety just scoring pts 🤔 https://t.co/y7L1UTAusM

— Neo Liberal (@RickyRawls) October 25, 2017

flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Innocent of all sorts of things he innocently did.

Mark G, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:58 (one year ago) Permalink

None of the women who came forward were ever in a position where I could make or break their careers. Sexual Harassment requires that I have such power.

I don't think this is part of the definition of "sexual harassment". This isn't a "bigotry" vs "racism" issue.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 17:59 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/anna-faris-reveals-director-sexually-155003460.html

she's talking about Ivan Reitman here, i'm almost 100% certain

nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Also, as these allegations mount and we tally them, it feels like we are starting to be more interested in keeping a tally on a scorecard than we are in helping the people victimized in these situations. I don't know what to do about that feeling.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Wait till it's the music industry's turn... watch out!

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:13 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp whoa. when this story broke 3 weeks ago, I thought about how many producers (strictly producers - not people like J.J. Abrams) have name recognition. Harvey was #1 with a bullet, and the only other two I could think of were Ivan Reitman and Bob Iger.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:16 (one year ago) Permalink

have you heard of this guy Steve Mnuchin

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:18 (one year ago) Permalink

he's kind of a big deal

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Good call but he definitely did not have name recognition as producer before Trump admin.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Dune Entertainment seems to have strictly been on the financing side, rather than the director/cast supervising side.

prelude to abjection (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 21:43 (one year ago) Permalink

It adds to the scorecard as DJP noted, but:

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/25/media/mark-halperin-sexual-harassment-allegations/index.html

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 26 October 2017 03:54 (one year ago) Permalink

And this is worth noting

This has been another open secret in the media....kudos to @oliverdarcy for nailing down what others couldn't. https://t.co/lsC0n2kAXz

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) October 26, 2017

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 26 October 2017 03:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Let's hear the joke pic.twitter.com/bAvyKeQnES

— Ashley Feinberg (@ashleyfeinberg) October 26, 2017

j., Thursday, 26 October 2017 04:53 (one year ago) Permalink

Add Artforum’s publisher and Leon Wieseltier to the list.

Eazy, Thursday, 26 October 2017 06:09 (one year ago) Permalink

go Corey go

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 26 October 2017 14:06 (one year ago) Permalink

Poppy Bush's joke (and this was straight from my acquaintance whom he 'encountered') was this:

"Guess my favorite magician?

It's David Cop-A-Feel!"

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 26 October 2017 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink

i'd have gone with 'guess my favourite metal lawman? it's robo-cop-a-feel!' myself

proton, neutron, electron and crouton (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 26 October 2017 15:09 (one year ago) Permalink

favorite character from Mr Rogers Neighborhood? Mr McFeely

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 26 October 2017 15:23 (one year ago) Permalink

funny how it never seems to happen with men

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 26 October 2017 16:44 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe it's time to just have a... sigh... rolling sexual assault scandal thread

Nhex, Thursday, 26 October 2017 19:39 (one year ago) Permalink

A spokesman for Bush, who is 93, said then: “President Bush would never – under any circumstance – intentionally cause anyone distress, so any distress you may be feeling is on you, I'm afraid."

Winky Carrothers (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 October 2017 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink

I doubt dragging GHW Bush into this will help the cause of reducing workplace sexual harassment.

Sanpaku, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

are we dragging him into it? or is he slithering into it?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:04 (one year ago) Permalink

doddering into it

Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:04 (one year ago) Permalink

tbh wouldn't be surprised if it's dementia related

nomar, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Possibly, but is the fact that he's at least twice done his "cop-a-feel" joke followed by a grab raise the possibility that it's not?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:10 (one year ago) Permalink

It doesn't seem the persons who's ass was intentionally or inadvertently grabbed by GHW Bush at a public event was in a position where their job was threatened, if they spoke out.

At some point, putting this into the same category as film producers who demand erotic massages or leg-humping directors, belittles the experience of those who face workplace harassment.

Sanpaku, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Possibly, but is the fact that he's at least twice done his "cop-a-feel" joke followed by a grab raise the possibility that it's not?

People with dementia do the same things over and over again, it's a characteristic feature

badg, Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:38 (one year ago) Permalink

as do many people without it. but it's unlikely we're going to provided with clinical evidence...

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

I am having a lot of difficulty getting past "David Cop-A-Feel"

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Thursday, 26 October 2017 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

It doesn't seem the persons who's ass was intentionally or inadvertently grabbed by GHW Bush at a public event was in a position where their job was threatened, if they spoke out.

It seems like all the stories (including my acquaintance's*) were at photo ops at things he was a guest at, so yeah.

*She's admitted the odd look on her face in the photo they took (which she's had up on FB since it was taken and also features other cast members of her show along with Mr. & Mrs. Bush) was because she was thinking "Did George Bush just goose me?"

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 26 October 2017 21:15 (one year ago) Permalink

'david cop-a-feel' sounds like the most stereotypical joke an old rich ruling class creep would make in front of his CIA friends in the seventies while they're all smoking cigars in a golf club lounge

he's probably been doing it for decades

qualx, Thursday, 26 October 2017 23:57 (one year ago) Permalink

or y'know, Skull & Bones

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:28 (one year ago) Permalink

I doubt dragging GHW Bush into this will help the cause of reducing workplace sexual harassment.

― Sanpaku, Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:02 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are we dragging him into it? or is he slithering into it?

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, October 26, 2017 4:04 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

doddering into it

― Οὖτις, Thursday, October 26, 2017

rolled into it

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:33 (one year ago) Permalink

groping his way through

El Tomboto, Friday, 27 October 2017 00:39 (one year ago) Permalink

it seems like calling out this behavior as shitty is key to reducing harassment, no?

lol dragging him into it. nobody made him act like a shithead. fuck this

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:41 (one year ago) Permalink

his wife was standing right there and joked about it. fuck these people

AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 27 October 2017 00:45 (one year ago) Permalink

by the time we're finished they're gonna wonder if david cop-a-feel was bush's running mate

qualx, Friday, 27 October 2017 00:46 (one year ago) Permalink

CBS Diversity Showcase Director Rick Najera Exits Amid Harassment Allegations (EXCLUSIVE) https://t.co/nbVh9NnwME via @variety

— Ted Johnson (@tedstew) October 26, 2017

Today alone, 5 people reached out w/ sexual harassment allegations against 5 different media figures. This isn’t slowing. It’s snowballing.

— Dylan Byers (@DylanByers) October 27, 2017

Ned Raggett, Friday, 27 October 2017 01:42 (one year ago) Permalink

Good. I want these men to all be afraid, afraid for their jobs, their reputations. I want them to fucking quake in their shoes with fear and humiliation the way theyve been meting out to women for centuries.

Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 27 October 2017 02:03 (one year ago) Permalink

Bush probably has done it for centuries...

to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 27 October 2017 02:37 (one year ago) Permalink

jfc

Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., recalled that when she was a young state legislator in her twenties, she asked the speaker of the Missouri House of Representatives for advice on getting her first bill out of committee.

"He looked at me and he paused and he said, 'Well, did you bring your knee pads?'" McCaskill said.

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 October 2017 19:12 (one year ago) Permalink

well that sucks

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Friday, 27 October 2017 20:04 (one year ago) Permalink

also completely predictable

Οὖτις, Friday, 27 October 2017 20:09 (one year ago) Permalink

always be doxxing I say

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 27 October 2017 20:13 (one year ago) Permalink

i was surprised it was taking so long to leak

Mordy, Friday, 27 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

burn book always ends up in the wrong hands

ein Sexmonster (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 27 October 2017 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

pro woman burn book prob should not end up in cernovich's hands yes that is correct

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 27 October 2017 21:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Quinn Cummings:

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13097605/quinn-cummings-child-actress/

The ending is particularly good.

But the whispers don’t stop with these obvious, public examples. The same women who spoke among themselves about Harvey, about Terry, also speak about well-known actors who are not quite the loving family men their publicists would have you believe. Instead of a bathrobe, it’s a private meeting. Instead of a clumsy grope, it’s a “helpful” lingering brush of your breast. Instead of a disgusting proposition, it’s a greasy little implication that a few minutes together could lead to something better down the road.

This is no longer black and white. It’s gray. And people don’t like gray, especially when it comes to sexual assault, which they really don’t want to be thinking about at all. They like their sexual assault clear, recognizable, and not committed by men who are America’s marital hall pass. Should these stories come out, the public’s response to the victims might not be nearly as supportive. But the fact remains, you can like someone very much and they can still be capable of terrible things. Unless Hollywood reconciles itself to the fact that not all sex criminals look like ogres, the question we should ask ourselves is what solidarity hashtag we’ll be using a year from now when nothing has changed.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 28 October 2017 00:13 (one year ago) Permalink

Ronan Farrow's new story has run.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/weighing-the-costs-of-speaking-out-about-harvey-weinstein

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 28 October 2017 02:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Annabella Sciorra's story is a really horrific one

nomar, Saturday, 28 October 2017 02:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Please read my statement below. pic.twitter.com/8ld8k8DC6O

— Mark Halperin (@MarkHalperin) October 27, 2017

j., Saturday, 28 October 2017 05:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Nah

.oO (silby), Saturday, 28 October 2017 05:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Just cried reading the latest Farrow piece - Annabella Sciorra's story is heartbreaking. Rosie Perez though is a national treasure.

Also it can't be said enough but fuck Tarantino. He knew this happened to Mira Sorvino and Daryl Hannah, on separate occasions ten years apart. Yet he didn't think Weinstein had a serious problem.

Roz, Saturday, 28 October 2017 12:52 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah god their stories are just... haunting is too mild of a word but ugh. that line where she decides to speak “oh you want RAPE?” ... fucking devastating

a friend posted this on FB and it dovetails into this area well i think. it’s not THE problem but it’s def a contributing factor

http://verysmartbrothas.com/men-just-dont-trust-women-and-this-is-a-problem/

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 October 2017 17:14 (one year ago) Permalink

annabella sciorra's story brought more realness than i could handle. esp when she talked about the way she thought and felt about it afterward. my god.

men don't trust women is otm though, i doubt i need to read that article

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 28 October 2017 22:01 (one year ago) Permalink

Definitely don't need to read the comments unfortunately (and predictably.)

nomar, Saturday, 28 October 2017 22:02 (one year ago) Permalink

no way, i never read comments

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, 28 October 2017 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Why would you ever read the comments on anything unless you're a hardcore masochist

flappy bird, Saturday, 28 October 2017 22:26 (one year ago) Permalink

In this case I gladly avoided the comments, but I often find comments better than the main piece on a lot of sites.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Sunday, 29 October 2017 01:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Taibbi now?

akm, Monday, 30 October 2017 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

That’s been the last few days, yes. And now there’s this:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/anthony-rapp-kevin-spacey-made-sexual-advance-when-i-was-14?utm_term=.grMV96ry99#.buvANzm7NN

Ned Raggett, Monday, 30 October 2017 01:55 (one year ago) Permalink

“now”

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 02:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Well the story makes clear Rapp’s been talking in various ways with others about this for years. This is the first full on-the-record story without name redaction.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 30 October 2017 02:09 (one year ago) Permalink

ahh

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 30 October 2017 02:19 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey 1) Apologizes 2) Blames it on drunkenness 3) warns there will be more stories and 4) Comes out.

There's a lot happening here. https://t.co/qOJTw3ziPS

— Jessica🎃BOOseman (@JessicaHuseman) October 30, 2017

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 04:23 (one year ago) Permalink

well, there’s living as a private person who has sexual relations, and then there’s whatever Spacey’s been doing for the last 30 years which is...not that

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 04:26 (one year ago) Permalink

What an awful response, holy shit

Simon H., Monday, 30 October 2017 04:28 (one year ago) Permalink

What a transparent, horrible way to try and force a different conversation

Simon H., Monday, 30 October 2017 04:29 (one year ago) Permalink

"i don't remember it because it was 30 years ago but i'm cool just blaming it on being drunk"

qualx, Monday, 30 October 2017 04:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Put more succinctly than I did

Celebrity Frames Horrible Allegations As Start Of Personal Growth Arc

— Pixelated Borat (@pixelatedboat) October 30, 2017

Simon H., Monday, 30 October 2017 04:41 (one year ago) Permalink

this makes me SO angry jesus

monotony, Monday, 30 October 2017 04:54 (one year ago) Permalink

throwing the queer community under the bus to defend yourself against allegations you sexually assaulted a minor. absolutely despicable

monotony, Monday, 30 October 2017 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

For real. It's not like gay men have had to defend themselves against accusations of pederasty for all of time...oh wait, yes they have. Thanks, Kevin!

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 30 October 2017 05:08 (one year ago) Permalink

This is beyond awful.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 30 October 2017 09:06 (one year ago) Permalink

It's evil.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 30 October 2017 09:06 (one year ago) Permalink

(Kevin Spacey beats a man to death with an accordion)

“I’m sure you’ve heard the rumors. They’re true. I am indeed an accordion player.”

— Jason Steele (@FilmCow) October 30, 2017

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 30 October 2017 09:07 (one year ago) Permalink

grim lol.

Ludo, Monday, 30 October 2017 09:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Halperin got the full kibosh.

NBC News has terminated Mark Halperin’s contract, following HBO, Showtime and Penguin in severing ties with him.

— Michael Calderone (@mlcalderone) October 30, 2017

Ned Raggett, Monday, 30 October 2017 13:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey at this point indistinguishable from Frank Underwood

akm, Monday, 30 October 2017 14:11 (one year ago) Permalink

how does Corey Feldman square his current crusade with his past friendship w and support of a certain very very famous accused child molester

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

(I say this as someone who is generally sympathetic to Feldman, but it is weird)

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

selective outrage is one possibility

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 October 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I see no connection at all

Breaking: HOUSE OF CARDS, which stars Kevin Spacey, ending with its 6th season, say @mikeylikestv https://t.co/kRM9SAOhmo

— Borys Kit (@Borys_Kit) October 30, 2017

Ned Raggett, Monday, 30 October 2017 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

how does Corey Feldman square his current crusade with his past friendship w and support of a certain very very famous accused child molester

According to this Matt Lauer interview...

FELDMAN: “I told the police. In fact if anyone wants to go back to 1993, when I was interviewed by the Santa Barbara Police Department. I sat there and gave them the names. They are on record. They have all of this information, but they were scanning Michael Jackson. All they cared about was trying about to find something on Michael Jackson.”
LAUER: “Who you said, by the way, did not abuse you.”
FELDMAN: “Who Michael was innocent. And that was what the interview was about with the pollice in 1993. I told them, he is not that guy. And they said, maybe you don’t understand your friend. And I said, no, I know the difference between pedophiles and somebody that is not a pedophile because I have been molested. Here’s the names, go investigate.

Eazy, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

I figured he was on record there

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:14 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah my feeling is that there’s no way Feldman would proclaim the innocence of a child molester if he was being abused himself or knew MJ was abusing others. it just wouldn’t happen.

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

I can totally imagine Feldman not knowing about MJ abuse though, or just not wanting to believe it.

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Surely House of Cards ending has more to do with the Trump presidency making it redundant.

dinnerboat, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:50 (one year ago) Permalink

did anyone watch more than 1.5 season of it? I watched two and I watch nearly anything

mh, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:50 (one year ago) Permalink

I can totally imagine Feldman not knowing about MJ abuse though, or just not wanting to believe it.

― Οὖτις, Monday, October 30, 2017 3:49 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

gbx, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:52 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey Singer Spacey Singer Spacey Singer Ancier Geffen good afternoon. How are you today? pic.twitter.com/bh49XvN0ea

— rose mcgowan (@rosemcgowan) October 30, 2017

Eazy, Monday, 30 October 2017 20:53 (one year ago) Permalink

I can totally imagine Feldman not knowing about MJ abuse though, or just not wanting to believe it.

― Οὖτις, Monday, October 30, 2017 3:49 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

― gbx, Monday, October 30, 2017 4:52 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In which case... it's not really a mystery how he could reconcile his crusade with his friendship with MJ.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:03 (one year ago) Permalink

I didn't say it was a huge mystery, I just raised it as an interesting point. Humanity's capacity for compartmentalization is always interesting.

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:06 (one year ago) Permalink

if MJ were really the molester he was portrayed to be I would have expected loads more information to have started flowing after his death, and it never did.

akm, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:22 (one year ago) Permalink

fair point

I can't recall any MJ tell-alls coming out either, which is interesting.

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe he was about as interesting as he appeared to be, which was: seemed like a weirdo, was probably just a secret drunk and pill head, liked to ride a little train with a monkey.

akm, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah I mean it is pretty difficult to keep people from spilling your shit once you're dead.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:28 (one year ago) Permalink

and ... who does that not describe, really? (xpost)

akm, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:28 (one year ago) Permalink

heh

Οὖτις, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

south park and kendrick have exonerated mj, good enough for me (kind of)

imago, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

i read something ages ago that he spent so long fucking with the press & not giving a fuck about how he was perveivec that when the first accusations arose he had no good will left with the press to even begin to tell anyone on the outside anything resembling the truth - no one wpuld believe him anyway. his world was so closed off and he burned all his bridges that the accusations were able to take him down without a lot of questioning

anyway, way off topic now - better for the MJ thread than here

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

*perceived

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

MJ seems very much like Tom Cruise: a full-on rich and powerful weirdo, but probably not a criminal. I mean, I wouldn't want my kids hanging out with Cruise, either.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:32 (one year ago) Permalink

when tom cruise shares his bed with kids that aren't his and keeps open bottles of liquor and porno mags in the en suite bathroom i'll worry about his behaviour around children

-_- (jim in vancouver), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

perveivec

I propose we submit this to urbandictionary

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

lol

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Is Rose McGowan pointing a finger at David Geffen? Gonna have to take his name off of a fuck ton of buildings if thats true

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:42 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah his name has been thrown around for a long time along with Spacey & Singer

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 October 2017 21:50 (one year ago) Permalink

Ancier? xpost

StanM, Monday, 30 October 2017 21:59 (one year ago) Permalink

this site goes into a lot of detail re: the Michael Jackson allegations: https://www.mjfacts.com/michael-jacksons-dangerous-liaisons/

soref, Monday, 30 October 2017 22:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I know that when I'm looking for facts about MJ, I go to mjfacts.com. As I understand it*, it would be illegal for them to publish anything else.

* Voiceover: He didn't understand it.

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 30 October 2017 22:18 (one year ago) Permalink

the person behind that site definitely has an agenda (they're upfront that they believe MJ had a sexual interest in boys, and the aim of the site is to provide evidence to that end), but it collects a lot of information in one place and generally seems pretty well researched imo

soref, Monday, 30 October 2017 22:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm guessing Garth Ancier?

xpost

EZ Snappin, Monday, 30 October 2017 22:35 (one year ago) Permalink

the person behind that site definitely has an agenda (they're upfront that they believe MJ had a sexual interest in boys, and the aim of the site is to provide evidence to that end),

Well, everybody needs a hobby...

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Monday, 30 October 2017 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

at least Culkin got a major payout from the Jackson estate after his death, could have been hush money

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 30 October 2017 23:05 (one year ago) Permalink

https://apnews.com/cb57500462dd4286be1817ed81773e82?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

: (

An arrest warrant has been obtained for actress Rose McGowan for felony possession of a controlled substance.

The felony charge stems from a police investigation of personal belongings left behind on a United flight arriving at Washington Dulles International Airport on Jan. 20. Police say the items tested positive for narcotics. The Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority Police Department obtained the warrant on Feb. 1

j., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 03:20 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/nation-now/2017/10/31/rapp-told-me-kevin-spacey-90-s-heres-what-happened-and-what-didnt-bruce-steele-column/814863001/

The Advocate talk about why they didn't name names in 2001, when Anthony Rapp told his story to them.

Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 09:47 (one year ago) Permalink

at least Culkin got a major payout from the Jackson estate after his death, could have been hush money

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 30, 2017 6:05 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

or he could have been in the will? idk

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 14:16 (one year ago) Permalink

I do understand why so many people are certain that Michael Jackson molested children but it's kind of wearying to sit through, particularly when people like R. Kelly blatantly skated by for so long.

Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 14:33 (one year ago) Permalink

that motherfucker is still skating, even with all the press coverage

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 14:38 (one year ago) Permalink

I am not and have never been a fan of r kelly. He should be in jail.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 14:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Alec Baldwin eats his own presumably delicious foot.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-mn-alec-baldwin-james-toback-20171029-story.html

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:29 (one year ago) Permalink

“Seduced and Abandoned,” the 2013 HBO documentary that followed the pair roaming the 2012 Cannes Film Festival pitching a sexually explicit update of “Last Tango in Paris,”

finally the story as it was meant to be told

drejelire, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

god what a shitty set of answers. fuck alec baldwin.

sean gramophone, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:35 (one year ago) Permalink

lol yeah I watching AB's Criterion Closet video and he talked at length about working with his "close friend Jimmy Toback" on that movie and he picked out some movie to give to Toback

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

the ultimate but-what-about-Trump usage

xp

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

wow, house of cards production halted. wonder if they'll just kill him off and reshoot for the last season.

akm, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:43 (one year ago) Permalink

xp there's some truth to it though, stupidly said as it was. but it's like, the one good thing to come out of this Trump shit that these assholes are getting outed

Nhex, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:44 (one year ago) Permalink

House of Cards set is literally two blocks away from me rn. Can you imagine working on that set, dude just got 100s of people their jobs

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

maybe the crew will actually kill Spacey and then film that for the show. would be a good ending.

akm, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:54 (one year ago) Permalink

hell yeah, I'd show up and gawk on set. although fwiw Spacey is not in town for this (now cancelled) shoot

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:57 (one year ago) Permalink

just recast his part like Becky from Roseanne

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 18:58 (one year ago) Permalink

they're already talking spinoff, which is probably the best route for job-saving (and preserving as much of the existing audience as possible)

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:01 (one year ago) Permalink

are there people still watching it, is what I am trying to figure out

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:04 (one year ago) Permalink

sadly yes

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:04 (one year ago) Permalink

i wonder if the likes of American Beauty, LA Confidential etc will become like Birth Of A Nation, never broadcast, nor issued on any upcoming formats, never shown at fests or anniversary screenings, ultimately spoken of in hushed tones and rotting away unloved on a studio shelf.

piscesx, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey's pretty scummy but, uh, then let's do away with every single old MGM film maybe

the [redacted] is getting to be a bit [redacted]

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:14 (one year ago) Permalink

American Beauty should rot away on the merits

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:15 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah I don't think it's going to be that extreme

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:17 (one year ago) Permalink

Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy ugh

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

American Beauty sucks

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:20 (one year ago) Permalink

Yup

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:21 (one year ago) Permalink

is it me or does the way Baldwin insists on referring to Toback as "Jimmy" in that article seems like a passive aggressive asshole thing or what?

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:22 (one year ago) Permalink

also crucially about a middle-aged man trying to foist himself on a teenager

xp

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:23 (one year ago) Permalink

mm yeah.. also his arc in LA Confidential shows a man slowly finding redemption by attempting to free young men from the clutches of sleazy movie producers.

piscesx, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

is it me or does the way Baldwin insists on referring to Toback as "Jimmy" in that article seems like a passive aggressive asshole thing or what?

― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:22 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk, I think he's just on a "Jimmy" basis with Toback based on that CC closet video I mentioned

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:27 (one year ago) Permalink

it undermines whatever concern he expresses

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:43 (one year ago) Permalink

there are some subtle and not-so-subtle reasons why Baldwin was picked for a recurring Trump parody

sometimes there's a misogyny that's not faked

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

has anyone ever been under the illusion that Alec Baldwin is a good person

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

no

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

i used to be under the illusion that he was a good actor. actually he probably *was*, back in the Miami Blues/Red October days. before he turned into a comedy hack.

drejelire, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:52 (one year ago) Permalink

he usually plays some variation of Alec Baldwin

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:54 (one year ago) Permalink

i used to be under the illusion that he was a good actor. actually he probably *was*, back in the Miami Blues/Red October days. before he turned into a comedy hack.

his one scene in GGR too of course, but yes otm

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:55 (one year ago) Permalink

i wonder if the likes of American Beauty, LA Confidential etc will become like Birth Of A Nation, never broadcast, nor issued on any upcoming formats, never shown at fests or anniversary screenings, ultimately spoken of in hushed tones and rotting away unloved on a studio shelf.

― piscesx,

Do you mean last year's crap Birth of a Nation or Griffith? Even in my university's worse than mediocre film program the Griffith film gets shown in class.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Baldwin was a good leading man up til mid-'90s, then other than a couple of decent supporting roles he's been pretty intolerable. the leading man who was unexpectedly good at comedy turned into a guy who thought he was a comic actor and it didn't work.

drejelire, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

He and Wahlberg are the saving grace of The Departed...

I saw Baldwin emcee a screening of a George C Scott film he selected a few months ago, and he was genial and amusing. Didn't make me think he was a good guy. (It was The Savage Is Loose, a desert-island incest drama.)

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

Birth of a Nation's place in film history is secure

xp

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, I can buy the BFI's recently remastered/restored etc etc blu ray of Birth of a Nation for six pounds in my local rec shop.

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah he's good in The Departed!

drejelire, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

I thought he was good in Still Alice and Blue Jasmine.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:02 (one year ago) Permalink

he's probably as underrated as a serious actor as spacey is overrated

but anyway we've uh strayed somewhat off topic

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:04 (one year ago) Permalink

there are some subtle and not-so-subtle reasons why Baldwin was picked for a recurring Trump parody

sometimes there's a misogyny that's not faked

― mh, Tuesday, October 31, 2017 2:47 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this part of the interview makes me think imitating Trump is infecting his speech patterns, this is sooo Trump:

Jimmy is one of the smartest, he’s one of the cleverest. He went to Harvard, super-intellect. Jimmy is one of the greatest conversationalists in the world. My wife and I went over to Cannes with him, and we had the time of our life with him and Michael Mailer. We had a great time. We made a film. We were very happy with the film we made. We sold it to HBO when it was done.

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I think Baldwin always spoke that way.

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

someone once made a comment about self-important middle-aged men with grandiose ways of speech and permanent whiskey bloat-face that's stuck with me

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

the thing that shits me off is that this “I didn’t personally know he was doing this” is some kind of wall to accepting that it IS a thing that is happening in the world

your good business buddy, your intelligent longtime friend can still be a fucking piece of shit to women. and honestly, the fact that youndoesnt have tits is like 70% of why this is a mystery to you Alec

there is an opportunity for empathy. the double doors swung wide to receive some kind of humility, humanity, good will to the women in your industry and instead you fuckin sidestep backpedal MOONWALK away on the back of a long standing friendship that has NOTHING to do with JIMMYS behaviour

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

His whole GGR monologue is like Trump fan fiction. I bet Trump himself knows it by heart.

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Good post, VG.

mick signals, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:29 (one year ago) Permalink

...empathy. the double doors swung wide to receive some kind of humility, humanity, good will to the women in your industry...

nothing AB has ever said or done that I'm aware of would suggest that anyone should have expected any better

Simon H., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Baldwin spent an entire interview saying how he's worked with this guy, has enjoyed this guy's company, has seen the guy be sketchy in a way that didn't cross Baldwin's own boundaries for acceptable behavior, and also this guy ("Jimmy") is pretty broken about about this

there's nothing in there at all about the actual actions or the victims or even whether anything bad happened other than accusations, which are the real bad thing here

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:30 (one year ago) Permalink

does Alec Baldwin think sexual assault is bad? not sure, might have to call him back

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Griffith yeah I forgot there was a remake.

piscesx, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:31 (one year ago) Permalink

xpost EXACTLY

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Didn't someone on here have a story about Piven bringing her into his room?

Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:42 (one year ago) Permalink

hard to believe that piven's a creep

cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Andy Dick

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 20:52 (one year ago) Permalink

hard to believe that piven's a creep

I honestly don't know how to read this

we don't know any of these ppl, gen speaking

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:07 (one year ago) Permalink

he radiates douchebaggery

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:09 (one year ago) Permalink

ok, i prob haven't seen him in anything in 15 years

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:11 (one year ago) Permalink

still, that could've been... acting?

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:11 (one year ago) Permalink

true

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:16 (one year ago) Permalink

huh? dane kinda looks less douchey in a fedora

dynamicinterface, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:25 (one year ago) Permalink

i am unfamiliar with the gentlemen in fedoras there but if that is 'less douchey' then i mean

imago, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:27 (one year ago) Permalink

Jeremy is also wearing a hat

drejelire, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:28 (one year ago) Permalink

fedora on the right = kid rock

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:29 (one year ago) Permalink

Didn't someone on here have a story about Piven bringing her into his room?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Tuesday, October 31, 2017 4:42 PM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was an ilxor relating their friend's encounter on the Christina Ricci appreciation thread.

how's life, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Here's the list of the 93 women who were sexually assaulted by #HarveyWeinstein.14 rapes as of today. We the victims have compiled this list pic.twitter.com/d2ohrgYy9e

— Asia Argento (@AsiaArgento) October 30, 2017

j., Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

Might as well link xp:

The Christina Ricci appreciation thread

how's life, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:31 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah, wasn't going to link that because the tone in the thread and the other anecdotes are really out of place in a sexual violence context

mh, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 21:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Does an Anne Perry reader condone murder?

IF the film itself doesn't espouse horrible views, it will still be watched. *The Pianist* will still be watched for decades, despite Polanski's acts in his personal life.

*American Beauty* is a flawed film, but in its era, it remains a standout for the mainstream. I haven't seen the nature of Spacey's transgressions. If it turns out he was a rapist, then *American Beauty* will be presented as a decent film that depicted the confusing and purposeless lives in its time, in which one of the ensemble cast was a violent sex addict. If he just patted asses and said sexist things, even that caveat won't be mentioned. He'll be a typical "entitled male" of his (and probably, that future) time.

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:04 (one year ago) Permalink

it's a shitty film

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Compared to?

Its an Oscar-bait talky film, with no likeable, but the direction is superb. Compared to the 500 or so theatrical releases that year, it would have merited placing in the top 20 or so.

We live in an era of Transformers IV, in which most mainstream films are made for pre-teens and the Chinese market. I'll take Oscar-bait any day.

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:11 (one year ago) Permalink

^no likeable characters

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:11 (one year ago) Permalink

bleeccch american beauty is so bad

most films are so bad

brimstead, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:12 (one year ago) Permalink

most Oscar-bait films are not well-remembered, in terms of cinema history (see the many Annual Oscar polls for reference/evidence)

it's poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly conceived, everything about it is bad. I think on the original "American Beauty" thread I called it a "crime against humanity". The smug self-satisfaction of the actors, writer, director and art director(s) oozes off the screen with every cliched image, thin caricature, and telegraphed plot twist.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:16 (one year ago) Permalink

Better films released in 1999:

Election (by far the closest analogue to American Beauty, and superior in every way)
Office Space
Ghost Dog
The Straight Story
Dick
Three Kings
The Talented Mr. Ripley
Galaxy Quest

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:20 (one year ago) Permalink

(American films, I guess I should specify)

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:20 (one year ago) Permalink

xxp otm, even when i was susceptible to the most shamelessly schmaltzy Oscar bait (Crash) I hated American Beauty. specifically the ridiculous soaring score. but the whole conceit of the thing is so pretentious and silly, although i love that the movie was inspired by a PLASTIC BAG floating in the wind. I do like one line a lot, though: Spacey's boss comes over, asks if he has a minute. "For you? I have five."

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:22 (one year ago) Permalink

Also "American _____" is the most overused and annoying title template.

jmm, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:24 (one year ago) Permalink

Not too hard to come up with 20 better films from 1999. It was a pretty good year.

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:24 (one year ago) Permalink

It's the third best movie from 1999 that starts with "American" ("Movie," "Pie")

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Election (by far the closest analogue to American Beauty, and superior in every way)

Oh hell yeah, this is a great comparison, and yeah Election is one of my favorite movies, can't wait for the Criterion reissue next month.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:25 (one year ago) Permalink

I haven't revisited Magnolia in a while, have a feeling it could go either way now for me- although most people hate it for the frog scene and the spontaneous singing, which i love love love...

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:26 (one year ago) Permalink

it's poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, poorly conceived, everything about it is bad. I think on the original "American Beauty" thread I called it a "crime against humanity". The smug self-satisfaction of the actors, writer, director and art director(s) oozes off the screen with every cliched image, thin caricature, and telegraphed plot twist.

― Οὖτις, Tuesday, October 31, 2017 5:16 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes. I only saw it once but loathed pretty much every minute of it.

The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I left off some respectable/well-liked things I don't particularly dig (like Magnolia, the South Park movie, American Pie, All About My Mother, Fight Club) but I wouldn't begrudge anyone liking those, they are not as objectively terrible as American Beauty.

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:29 (one year ago) Permalink

I'd agree to Election and The Straight Story from your list. Personally, my canon would include Being John Malkovich, Herod's Law, All About My Mother, Kikujiro, Gloomy Sunday, The Hurricane, and yes, Fight Club.

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:29 (one year ago) Permalink

The Iron Giant obviously the best film released in 1999

Number None, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:30 (one year ago) Permalink

and I almost forgot - AB has the classic gay-panic-murderer plot device! one of the most loathsome tropes in American cinema.

oh shit dunno how I missed BJM, that movie is great would absolutely include it in a year's best of (decade's best of too, probably)

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:30 (one year ago) Permalink

A hell in which I'm condemned to watch Oscar bait like The Danish Girl instead of Transformers would be beyond the scope of human language to describe.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:31 (one year ago) Permalink

guys, surely there is another thread better served for this kind of discussion

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Honestly, how common is the gay panic murder device? I don't get out to see many films, but I do watch politics, and discomfit with homosexual longing oozes from their pores.

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:32 (one year ago) Permalink

oh god alfred that scene when Redmayne's characters turns into a scarf at the end, blowing in the wind

flappy bird, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:33 (one year ago) Permalink

guys, surely there is another thread better served for this kind of discussion

Rather.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:36 (one year ago) Permalink

yep, apologies

Number None, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Honestly, how common is the gay panic murder device? I don't get out to see many films, but I do watch politics, and discomfit with homosexual longing oozes from their pores.

are you serious

Cruising, Hard, Silent Partner, (plus cross-dresser/gender confusion sub-group: Silence of the Lambs, Sleepaway Camp, Dressed to Kill)

this is off the top of my head, there are so many of these

but yes let's take this to another thread

Οὖτις, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:37 (one year ago) Permalink

surely there is another thread

This thread went off those rails long before the discussion of Oscar-bait films of 1999, which is at least tangentally related to Miramax.

If we can have a shooting spree rolling thread, surely we can have a thread on public figures who have been disclosed as sexual predators.

Sanpaku, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:38 (one year ago) Permalink

i wonder if the likes of American Beauty, LA Confidential etc will become like Birth Of A Nation, never broadcast, nor issued on any upcoming formats, never shown at fests or anniversary screenings, ultimately spoken of in hushed tones and rotting away unloved on a studio shelf.

Well, tying in some other relevant names, James Toback's most well-known film (I'd guess, looking at his director credits) is his documentary on Mike Tyson - a convicted rapist who's been completely rehabilitated by the entertainment/sports world.

Unless this stuff is signaling a sea change in public attitudes that stick around (doubtful), sexual assault is the most forgivable crime.

louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:40 (one year ago) Permalink

'99 is probably my favorite movie year from my own lifetime. I liked American Beauty the first time I saw it and then wondered upon seeing it a second time if I'd suffered some kind of two-hour episode the first time I saw it. Still shocked that Alan Ball was subsequently responsible for something as good as Six Feet Under.

Winky Carrothers (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:41 (one year ago) Permalink

We have this thread: 1999 in film

jmm, Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:42 (one year ago) Permalink

i wd assume that spacey's career is basically over now, right? regardless of the status of his past films, it's hard to imagine him getting cast in anything any time soon

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:43 (one year ago) Permalink

Mike Tyson - a convicted rapist

At least he did time unlike the rest of these guys

reggae mike love (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 22:45 (one year ago) Permalink

this thread can be about predators absolutely but right now it’s devolved into overlooked movies from the 90’s and I want it to stop

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 31 October 2017 23:13 (one year ago) Permalink

BREAKING: Six women, including @oliviamunn & @nathenstridge, have accused Brett Ratner of sexual harassment or misconduct. Our story: https://t.co/qwjjQAIuFk

— Amy Kaufman (@AmyKinLA) November 1, 2017

groovypanda, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 13:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Christ not the little big man as well..

piscesx, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:46 (one year ago) Permalink

can revelations about mcg and/or zack snyder be far behind

proton, neutron, electron and crouton (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:54 (one year ago) Permalink

wd assume that spacey's career is basically over now, right? regardless of the status of his past films, it's hard to imagine him getting cast in anything any time soon

The hastiness of House Of Cards' cancellation suggests coworkers know there's more to come out. At the moment there's one story about him, as a youngish closeted former teen theatre kid, making a move on a teen theatre kid that he'd picked as being gay, and stopping when consent wasn't given. There have been loads of past murmurs about modern Spacey being a creep in London theatre, but a less horrendous "apology" to Rapp could have resolved this situation career-wise, if it's all there is.

shackling the masses with plastic-wrapped snack picks (sic), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:37 (one year ago) Permalink

there's this now, though:

https://www.avclub.com/two-more-actors-accuse-kevin-spacey-of-sexual-assault-a-1820037557

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey obliterated any chance at career rehabilitation with his statement throwing the LGBT community under the bus. There will be no Mel Gibson-esque reconsideration in 10 years.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Spacey has three major films in the can right now: he's starring in two of them, and the other one is a pretty big deal, Billionaire Boys Club. I wonder what's going to happen there, they can't exactly CGI him out.

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:11 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah i just saw the trailer for the J Paul Getty one

might go straight to video/stream

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:12 (one year ago) Permalink

the Brett Ratner thing is the least surprising thing on the planet. him going on a radio show and bragging about a sexual relationship with someone, a relationship that never happened, is probably a good indicator of a terrible human being and a red flag of someone capable of exactly what the stories tell.

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:17 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah Ratner is not surprising and iirc there were stories before. I remember Howard Stern going over a clip of Ratner being interviewed by Jimmy Kimmel and him telling a story about hanging with Michael Jackson and throwing water balloons at homeless people from a limo at five in the morning. Howard was horrified- glad the clip is still up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufp006AHlgs

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:21 (one year ago) Permalink

trying to think which hollywood man I'd be surprised to learn such things about. Clooney has a pretty squeaky image I guess. Spielberg. That's probably it.

akm, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:26 (one year ago) Permalink

i'd probably be surprised by Scorsese if only because for all his various wives over the years and earlier drug problems, he just seems like someone whose life is devoted to film. and everything i hear about him suggests he's an extremely decent guy. but you never know what happened in the '70s, and i remember a story or two from that Biskind book that weren't exactly in line w/what i just noted about him.

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:30 (one year ago) Permalink

Always interesting the hear where Stern draws the line.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:30 (one year ago) Permalink

I wouldn't be shocked it Clooney were a shithead. Spielberg, yeah. Tom Hanks, yeah.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:31 (one year ago) Permalink

No one would surprise me, really. When you start thinking people are too innocent-seeming or above behavior, you start drawing lines.

mh, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Clooney's pranking antics are well-known enough that I wouldn't put it past him to not have the best judgment of when to not cross the line

Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:35 (one year ago) Permalink

Nic Cage, be disappointing if he was up to anything as mundane tbh

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:36 (one year ago) Permalink

that's true, cf the responses to the Ratner accusations in the piece from his former assistants...

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Drew Carey
Garry Marshall
Denzel Washington
Will Smith
Daniel Dae Kim
John Cho
Aziz Ansari
Chris Pratt
Mike Schur
Wil Arnett
Clive Owen

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:36 (one year ago) Permalink

you can safely assume the more power and wealth someone accumulates, the more likely it is they've felt entitled to doing awful things

Simon H., Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:36 (one year ago) Permalink

Multiple xps: I'm currently reading that recent biography of George Lucas, and whenever Marcia was off editing a film for Marty, Lucas made it absolutely clear he did not trust Scorsese not to try to make a move on her.

BTW, Dustin Hoffman: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/dustin-hoffman-sexually-harassed-me-i-was-17-guest-column-1053466

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:37 (one year ago) Permalink

like none of the 10 DJP just listed would be at all shocking to me idk xp

Simon H., Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:38 (one year ago) Permalink

Flight of the concords guys

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Mike Schur would be shocking primarily from a friend-of-friends perspective

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:39 (one year ago) Permalink

It would not surprise me to learn that any given man who had ever done anything for attention had committed sexual assault.

.oO (silby), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:42 (one year ago) Permalink

surely our ruffalo would never

mookieproof, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:42 (one year ago) Permalink

this is turning into a tabloid "who's up next" and it's gross

mh, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Also, as these allegations mount and we tally them, it feels like we are starting to be more interested in keeping a tally on a scorecard than we are in helping the people victimized in these situations. I don't know what to do about that feeling.

― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, October 25, 2017 2:01 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:46 (one year ago) Permalink

Tom Cruise is an obvious one. Travolta too. Although they're probably being shielded by Scientology for now.

Clooney is gay, right? That's the only gossip I've heard about him, that all his girlfriends were beards.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

let's ask his wife

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:50 (one year ago) Permalink

well obviously she'd lie

j., Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:51 (one year ago) Permalink

so that's how it works

President Keyes, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:54 (one year ago) Permalink

let's ask his wife

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, November 1, 2017 1:50 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

& wives/ex-wives of Cruise, Travolta...

anyway sorry getting off topic again

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

take it to the toxic masculinity thread

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:09 (one year ago) Permalink

pretty sure clooney is not gay although his wife is gorgeous as fuck

akm, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:45 (one year ago) Permalink

also being gay doesn't disqualify you as spacey has proven

akm, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:46 (one year ago) Permalink

the creepy accusations against Cruise (coming from, for instance, my TV fantasy girlfriend Nazanin Boniadi) have been so public for so long with zero ramifications I wonder if anything will ever come of them. granted I guess they aren't assault, they're just creepy.

akm, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

now's the time if it's ever going to happen. But Cruise, Travolta, + many others are protected by Scientology in addition to their endless NDAs, lawyers, cash reserves, etc.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 18:50 (one year ago) Permalink

that piece re Dustin Hoffman is utterly, believably sad

these 'artists' who allegedly strive for the transcendent and go as low as they can around 'littler' people...

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 19:13 (one year ago) Permalink

morbs otm

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 19:40 (one year ago) Permalink

and thinking about being 17 too ... it hurts my heart for her to have to reconcile his behaviour with this setting where she was so excited to just be a part of it

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 19:42 (one year ago) Permalink

the common thread among all these stories is the sense of celebrity arrogance and the sense that everyone around them is theirs for the taking. sometimes it's a very casual, offhand behavior, and sometimes it's very calculated and predator-like, and sometimes it's this desperate and pathetic use of status to get what they want. sometimes it's two of the three, sometimes all three.

drejelire, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Every secondhand story I've heard about a male celebrity is a variant on the continuum of "that guy is a dog" or "that guy is a groper" or "don't be in a room alone with that guy" - whether they're d-list British celebs or proper famous ones.

...Except for one of the guys mentioned upthread by DJP, who is likewise an acquaintance of an acquaintance and a super low-key nice person.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 20:23 (one year ago) Permalink

Has this been posted?

“I am sorry for all the times I stabbed men, just a little, in my previous workplace. After years of counseling, I stopped stabbing men.”

— Kate Harding (@KateHarding) October 28, 2017

IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 21:34 (one year ago) Permalink

I default believe all people coming forward as victims and the burden of proof in public accusation, unlike the law, is credibility and on the accused to prove innocence, not the court system to prove guilt of accused. But that doesn’t mean unclear things won’t surface, and that we as observers won’t have to tentatively be somewhat neutral

mh, Thursday, 2 November 2017 01:31 (one year ago) Permalink

otoh you have Ratner

mh, Thursday, 2 November 2017 13:59 (one year ago) Permalink

CW: Danny Masterson is accused of 4 counts of violent rape, involving Scientology cover ups. He's hired Cosby and Ratner's attorneys.

Exclusive: Despite ‘Overwhelming’ Evidence Against Actor Danny Masterson, including 4 victims, Rape Case Has Stalled https://t.co/sMBMPfiXKK

— Yashar Ali 🐘 (@yashar) November 2, 2017

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:45 (one year ago) Permalink

He's hired Cosby and Ratner's attorneys.

for when you need help appearing even more obviously guilty

Simon H., Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:47 (one year ago) Permalink

(click tweet to see thread with more info)

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:50 (one year ago) Permalink

some of the details in those stories are sickening

drejelire, Thursday, 2 November 2017 17:52 (one year ago) Permalink

That Spacey story is so foul it makes me want to go home and burn any copies I have of any movie he's in.

Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:27 (one year ago) Permalink

I have some thoughts on the Spacey story, and the source. Aaaaand they will stay in my head.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:32 (one year ago) Permalink

I really hate the way my brain processes traumatic events because after reading that guy's story, I sat staring at my screen thinking, "Jesus, what a terrible story. I'm glad he seems to have come out the other side okay-" and then all of a sudden every other thought was crowded out by "Keyser Sose touches kids / Doo-dah, doo-dah" to the tune of "Camptown Races".

the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:34 (one year ago) Permalink

that most recent accuser of spacey's sounds like one incredibly fucked up person. I'm not victim blaming but my god.

akm, Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:35 (one year ago) Permalink

?
i thought he sounded credible

it takes a lot of work to come out of the other side ok
sometimes people who experience these things at a very young age don't ever realize that they were preyed upon, that it wasn't their fault. at least he has. it's a bitter pill to realize you were preyed upon when you thought you were making a decision.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

seems more like a fucked up period than a fucked up person?

xpost

chinavision!, Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:49 (one year ago) Permalink

"Keyser Sose touches kids / Doo-dah, doo-dah" to the tune of "Camptown Races".


the guiltiest of lols

What's the range of an Iranian frogman dipshit? (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 2 November 2017 18:55 (one year ago) Permalink

I LOLed too, guilt schmilt.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:24 (one year ago) Permalink

that most recent accuser of spacey's sounds like one incredibly fucked up person. I'm not victim blaming but my god.

― akm, Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:35 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i have no idea what you are talking about. this account? http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/kevin-spacey-alleged-sexual-relationship.html

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:46 (one year ago) Permalink

that experience so closely matched my own, it was painful to read

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:47 (one year ago) Permalink

i was stunned by how articulately he was able to speak about it, how conflicted he felt at a later age even when he became certain of how fucked up it was

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

i mean this is ... ugh i don't even know. intense

What he left me with, more than what he took from me, was a sense that I deserved this. And that’s the knot I’m still untangling. Every time I’ve ever told the story, I am compelled to tell people how seductive I was towards these men. I’m compelled to tell people how much I wanted these things because some very deep part of me feels like it’s lying if I don’t say that. If I don’t describe how consensual it was. Some part of me takes a lot of work to understand that I can have been the victim of someone and not be a victim. So that’s all fucked up in my head.

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:48 (one year ago) Permalink

and this. i remember doing the same thing when i started to process what had happened to me.

When did your thinking around what had happened start to change?
When do I start to think of him as a sexual predator?

Yeah. I assume you would call him that now.
I would call him that to his face. I would call him a pedophile and a sexual predator. When I turned 25, I looked at every 14-year-old boy I could see, to try to understand what those men had seen, because I still on some level thought I had been a tiny adult. That whole year I was 25, I tried to just see the ones who were like six-foot-two, and 200 pounds — they all looked like children. They all looked like somebody who was 10 years old four years ago. Nobody looks fuckable. Nobody … I couldn’t conjure it up. I couldn’t conjure up the desire. It was nauseating to think of having sex with them, and that was, I think, certainly when I understood, on a very deep level, these men were fucked up. Up until then, I just thought about him as somebody who had really done me wrong and tried to rape me, but not as somebody who had functioned as a predator. And then, if you’re interested in sexual predation, you start to read about it, and you realize all these patterns and techniques, and it all kind of falls within a set of practices.

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:51 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah - i don't quite see what the criticism of his story is? what do you see that maligns the accuser? if anything, he's terribly honest about his own motivations as a teenager

Nhex, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:57 (one year ago) Permalink

i felt the same way
teenagers think they have it all figured out and really they don't
it can take many years to come to terms with being victimized/preyed upon

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:58 (one year ago) Permalink

that most recent accuser of spacey's sounds like one incredibly fucked up person. I'm not victim blaming but my god.

― akm, Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:35 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hmm interesting wonder what could have possible made him "fucked up"

brimstead, Thursday, 2 November 2017 19:59 (one year ago) Permalink

I have some thoughts on the Spacey story, and the source. Aaaaand they will stay in my head.

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:32 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I really hate the way my brain processes traumatic events because after reading that guy's story, I sat staring at my screen thinking, "Jesus, what a terrible story. I'm glad he seems to have come out the other side okay-" and then all of a sudden every other thought was crowded out by "Keyser Sose touches kids / Doo-dah, doo-dah" to the tune of "Camptown Races".

― the Hannah Montana of the Korean War (DJP), Thursday, November 2, 2017 2:34 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that most recent accuser of spacey's sounds like one incredibly fucked up person. I'm not victim blaming but my god.

<3 you DJP but really you should've done what morbz did here

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 20:17 (one year ago) Permalink

woops meant to leave out akms post in there but whatever

marcos, Thursday, 2 November 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

god theres some dumb shit itt today smh

kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 2 November 2017 20:40 (one year ago) Permalink

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22912/former-grad-student-accuses-neil-de-grasse-tyson-emily-zanotti

― j., Wednesday, November 1, 2017 8:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yep.

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 2 November 2017 21:01 (one year ago) Permalink

is that a "yep" like a John Gruber "yep"

.oO (silby), Thursday, 2 November 2017 21:01 (one year ago) Permalink

that anonymous spacey account tore my heart to shreds

harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 2 November 2017 21:19 (one year ago) Permalink

agree

Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 2 November 2017 21:49 (one year ago) Permalink

yeah I wasn't trying to tarnish him, just that those situations with the cousin and the parents fucked him up.

akm, Thursday, 2 November 2017 22:05 (one year ago) Permalink

well duh

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 2 November 2017 22:07 (one year ago) Permalink

I think it's safe to assume Spacey's career is over now.

akm, Thursday, 2 November 2017 22:09 (one year ago) Permalink

Hell of a strong read

https://www.theroot.com/kevin-spacey-and-the-damage-done-1820052424

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 2 November 2017 22:15 (one year ago) Permalink

like it's completely not cool to casually say "hey wow that tr