North Korea

North Korean state television, radio and newspapers have led the grooming drive, urging people to cut their hair short and to dress tidily, the BBC said in a dispatch citing broadcasts from Pyongyang.

Men were asked to have crew cuts with hair growing up to five centimeters (two inches) in a twice-a-month visit to the barber, it said.

http://secure.designerz.com/news-image.php?i=shared/lifestyle/SGE.AAB65.090105183816.photo00.quicklook.default-185x245.jpg
A North Korean soldier combs his hair at the truce village of Panmunjom

Not only health and hygiene but also intelligence was cited by the North Korean media as reasons for the crackdown on appearance.

Pyongyang television noted long hair "consumes a great deal of nutrition" and could thus rob the brain of energy, according to the BBC.

But another serious reason came from state radio which said tidy attire "is important in repelling the enemies' maneuvers to infiltrate corrupt capitalist ideas and lifestyle" in North Korea, it said.

The ruling communist party newspaper, Rodong Sinmun, even warned inappropriate appearance under foreign influence could lead to national decay.

"People who wear other's style of dress and live in other's style will become fools and that nation will come to ruin," Rodong was cited as saying.

Some North Korean TV broadcasts adopted a hidden-camera style video of longhaired men on various locations throughout Pyongyang in an unprecedented break with their usual approach.

so we're told, but that's bound to be a generalization, and doesn't get at how such a society sustains itself or functions internally - what do people do all day? is everyone starving to death except for some narrow upper-class echelon of rulers? if things are so horrible, why don't the people rebel? is there any resistance at all, any underground, black market? what is holding everything in place, etc.?

umm....the blood of the proletariat? Guns?

But it does have an esperanto section, unlike KFC's.

Oh absolutely. I still think that--unlike the USSR or China--shit is really, really bad in N. Korea. Someone already linked through this article (the nighttime pic), but it's still worth reading.

you only just now found out about this, strongo?!?

i don't think that's *completely* true. a number of journalists have managed to get in and get some information out despite having to be herded around by government "translators."

i sort of imagine there not being any public dissent, at all. as for private dissent, well... i get the sense that the people of north korea have been fed a very strict regimen of limited info for over 50 years and thus don't really have much sense of the outside world, or other ideologies they could counterpose to that of their nation's. so if there is private dissent i'm guessing it takes a weird intra-ideological form that we wouldn't recognize or be very happy with.

He left to Japan. His wife was kidnapped from Japan in the 1970s along with about a dozen others. She came from a town next to the Japan Sea, and she was abducted by North Korean agents and whisked back to North Korea. It's another completely bizarre episode.

The American was in the army serving in South Korea in the 1960s. He claims that he was afraid of being sent to Vietnam, so defected to the North. The U.S. army convicted him of dissertion a few months ago, and he served a very lenient sentence that was like community service.

He did an interview with Japanese TV and described his life in North Korea in general terms. His most memorable quote was saying, "I lived like a dog." He also blasted the North Korean government for all the obvious reasons.

(ok, I'll stop now)

I assume this is the Harper's piece mentioned upthread. It's a pretty hard read.

http://www.jonhs.net/freemovies/welcome_to_north_korea.htm

This is good - it's from 2001 so some may have already seen it.

also good:

http://www.yhchang.com/CUNNILINGUS_IN_NORTH_KOREA.html

N. Korea Says It Is Holding Reporters

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea confirmed Saturday that it had detained two American journalists on charges of “illegally intruding” into the North through its border with China.

The journalists, Laura Ling, a Chinese-American, and Euna Lee, a Korean-American, both working for Current TV, were on a reporting trip along the border when they were detained by North Korean border guards, according to human rights activists and a South Korean news report. Their colleague, Mitch Koss, and their Chinese guide were reported to have been detained by Chinese border guards.

“A competent organ is now investigating the case,” the North’s official news agency, KCNA, said.

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2667/jong.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-koreas-kim-jongil-a-skilled-and-ruthless-ruler-20090405-9t1l.html

Getting less hilarious.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8066615.stm

This used to have many good photos, but they've all gone. Can anyone dig it up?

um this http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82755

Good North Korea pictures here:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/04/peering_into_north_korea.html

Uh oh.

They're going to blow the shit of Seoul, aren't they?

Isnt it Japan and the US they're shaking their fists at more, though? Bit disconcerting either way I gotta say.

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/nkorea_04_24/n25_18563365.jpg

North Korea's military says it considers South Korea's participation in a U.S.-led program to intercept ships suspected of spreading weapons of mass destruction tantamount to a declaration of war against the North.

The communist North's military said in a statement Wednesday that it will respond with "immediate, strong military measures" if the South actually stops and searches any North Korean ships under the Proliferation Security Initiative.

The statement, carried by the North's Korean Central News Agency, said North Korea no longer considers itself bound by the armistice that ended the Korean War, as a protest over the South's participation.

South Korea announced its participation in the anti-proliferation program Tuesday, one day after the North conducted a nuclear test.

ugh.

Did anyone see that lolVice TV travelogue thing through N. Korea? It's pretty interesting: http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1438428757

A colleague of mine went to North Korea last year. He described it as an unpleasant experience.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A war of nerves over North Korea should not be allowed to grow into a military confrontation, a Russian official said on Wednesday in a clear reference to Pyongyang's decision to drop out of an armistice agreement.

"We assume that a dangerous brinkmanship, a war of nerves, is under way, but it will not grow into a hot war," Itar-Tass news agency quoted an unnamed foreign ministry source as saying.

"Restraint is needed," the source added.

The foreign ministry often uses statements sourced to unnamed officials leaked through official news agencies to lay down its position on sensitive issues.

Despite being lambasted by the capitalists for years as a dangerous but undeveloped rogue country, the DPRK's outstanding achievements this year have shown that she certainly does have the technical capability to do whatever she wishes.

http://www.korea-dpr.com/cgi-bin/simpleforum.cgi/simpleforum.cgi?fid=01&topic_id=1243238064

Those pictures are outstanding, thanks for that.

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/nkorea_04_24/n25_18563365.jpg

N. Korea is steampunk!

http://mnftiu.cc/blog/images/war.108.gif

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2008/sep/12/kim-north-korea?picture=337564436

this picture does not look real in any way

NK Ministry of Propaganda needs better shop fu.

kinda amazed the Chinese are so blase about North Korea... if any war breaks out, China's gonna have a flood of refugees to deal with.

No, still hilarious.

"...shifting an entire brewery it bought in Great Britain to North Korea"

I'd like to think Kim Jong Il towed it through the air on cables attached to his presidential jet.

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/08/04/ba-nkorea_journa_0500447422.jpg

yep

Last known photograph.

one looks healthy and happy, one is somber and sullen

both look like they're in a 16-bit videogame

Kim looks like a very large action figure of Kim.

"your wife looks like a primary schoolgirl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping."

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-08/48456549.jpg

the "journalists" have been pardoned and will be released with Bill.

well done bubba!

a friend of mine works for Gore's news agency, was totally freaking out about this

somehow i don't have a lot of sympathy for these "journalists"/"hikers" doing questionable activities whilst straddling the border of some of our most vocal countries of opposition... is this just me?

what are you some kind of police state stan

Happy birthday, Barry. Got you 2 azn hottiez lol

Bill

PS - send video

somehow i don't have a lot of sympathy for these "journalists"/"hikers" doing questionable activities whilst straddling the border of some of our most vocal countries of opposition... is this just me?

― (*ﾟーﾟ)θ L(。･＿･)　　　°~ヾ(･ε･ *) (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:19 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

yep, they were asking for it.

I cannot believe it

Can't wait for the "Rambo 6 Meets Air Force One" movie version.

I heard from somewhere that they WERE aware they were on NK territory, and that they purposefully took their camera crews etc into the restricted area, and then had to hoof it back across the border when they were discovered, and those are the two people who didn't make it across. HOWEVER that doesn't mean that NK isn't completely ridiculous and isn't trying to imprison them for life for "spying" in, say, the middle of a forest where there isn't anything there.

Feel free to correct me if they were captured in a top-secret military encampment.

first statement since their release:
http://current.com/sl/laura_ling.htm

couple of nice photos from the dpr korea website, although they were taken in south korea...

http://www.korea-dpr.com/ocn/wp-content/uploads/NK001-3.JPG

http://www.korea-dpr.com/ocn/wp-content/uploads/NK001-5.JPG

they used that same awesome backdrop of waves for the recent clinton photo op; and for albright's photo op when she went there in there in 99/2000 or whatever. so dope.

north korea's too depressing for me to find anything hilarious about it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63B0US20100412?rpc=60

lynchrabbits.jpg

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/08/04/ba-nkorea_journa_0500447422.jpg

if kim jong-il was actually terry richardson

If we soldiers see beans, we become happy
If we soldiers see beans, we become happy
If we soldiers see beans, we become happy

anyway, this is my favorite kim jong-il piece of trivia:

If the official government media is to be believed, Kim is easily the greatest golfer, the world has ever seeen.

Pyongyang media say Kim enjoys golf, having shot multiple holes-in-one during his first try at the game. He reportedly aced five holes and finished 38 under par on the golf course. The "Dear Leader" routinely shoots three or four holes-in-one per round, the government-controlled media reported.

I could see a Gymkata remake only it's golf instead of gymnastics, Tiger Woods has to restore his honor by challenging Kim to the death...

sooooo...

lol legernd

Hello new peninsular war (had to be careful typing that)

What books should I read about NK? http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jul/01/samuel-johnson-prize-nothing-to-envy sounds OK but any other recs?

Welcome to this one man show
Just take a seat, they're always free
No surprise, no mystery
In this theatre that I call my soul
I always play the starring role, so ronery

"Great Leader, Dear Leader" is v. good; "Under The Loving Care Of The Fatherly Leader" is good as well, if you want to go deeper (900 pages)

thanks! GLDL is sadly out of print (?) or unavailable on amazon uk. 900 pages was a bit more than i had in mind. i will try to track down GLDL, but any other tips?

I caught the North Korean exhibition at Vienna's MAK (Museum of Applied Arts) last month. The art was technically proficient but uniformly awful. And the overall impression of the kind of State that produced it was at least seven different kinds of horrifying.

This was made all the more interesting by the fact that I attended it with my Croatian girlfriend, a resident of Vienna, who has strong memories of seeing very similar State artworks from her childhood in the former Yugoslavia. It was a great big nostalgia fest for her...

lil' typo in North Korea's statement about regarding their intention to retaliate with nuclear war:

"The army and people of the (North) will legitimately counter with their powerful nuclear deterrence the largest-ever nuclear war exercises," the commission said in a statement run on the state-run Korean Central News Agency.

..."The more desperately the US imperialists brandish their nukes and the more zealously their lackeys follow them, the more rapidly the (North's) nuclear deterrence will be bolstered up along the orbit of self-defence and the more remote the prospect for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula will be become," the NDC statement said.

Guardian

It's really fun to read that last sentence slowly, and with a threatening tone of voice rising to shouting and beating of fists on the table with "will be become".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/7918468/North-Korean-football-team-shamed-in-six-hour-public-inquiry-over-World-Cup.html

That's actually quite positive. I was expecting to hear that they were all shot in the head.

North Korea's ruling party is to hold a conference on Sept. 28 for electing its supreme leadership board, North Korea's KCNA news agency said on Monday.

The agency gave no details of the agenda, but the conference is expected to pick a new leadership and likely anoint an heir as Kim Jong-il's health deteriorates.

we're all following north korea on twitter, right?

Maybe we'll finally get a photo of the esteemed party center.

The other point here, though, is what - exactly - did you find out? Seemingly nothing of any consequence whatsoever. Marcus Noland reported markets in the DPRK in the mid-1990s, there's absolutely nothing new in your article - it's a boy's own jaunt in the DPRK.

Do you now have privileged insight into the leadership transition? No. Do you have any greater understanding of the living conditions of ordinary people in the DPRK? Doesn't look like it. Apart from a bit of glossy prose, this article contributes nothing to our understanding of life or politics in the DPRK. Nothing. You're a fool.

And pity your guide. What (and I want an answer to this question) have been / will be the consequences for him? If he loses his job as a result of your stupidity, what are you going to do about it?

I agree with that comment, especially the last sentence - seems they had no regard for what might happen to their guide. obviously as westerners they would have been offered a lot more wiggle room had some bad shit gone down.

Cheap lol in view of the preceding posts but:

Photo:

http://www.latimes.com/media/alternatethumbnails/photo/2010-09/56386430-27101838.jpg

Headline:

N. Koreans prepare for transfer of power

I have just been reading how in the early 1970s when they started grooming Kim Jong Il for the top job, they had to change the official dictionary of political terminology so that "hereditary succession" was no longer a symptom of oppressive and backward societies.

I don't know if it has been mentioned already on this thread, but the book "Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick is an excellent peek into the non-hilarious lives of ordinary North Koreans.

bryan myers' han sǒrya and north korean literature + the cleanest race are both good, readable works on nk (mostly polit ideology type stuff rather than barbara demick common people stuff)

i wonder, how much collective memory of elderly north koreans is there of the period before the war? did most koreans unsympathetic to communism flee to the south before 1953?

I don't know if it has been mentioned already on this thread, but the book "Nothing to Envy" by Barbara Demick is an excellent peek into the non-hilarious lives of ordinary North Koreans.

have been tip-toeing around reading this; i think the first thing i heard about it was the criticism that, focusing as it does solely on disillusioned ex-pats (blanking on the more appropriate term, one that doesn't conjure someone needing a change of scenery) rather than its citizens, but everything i've heard since has been positive.

did most koreans unsympathetic to communism flee to the south before 1953?

I don't think they could have gone south after the Korean War started, so that would give 1949 (or whenever it was) as the cut-off date), though I suppose people could have scarpered south during the war when the ROK and US forces moved north. But at that stage there was not really much to choose between the two Koreas - both dictatorships heavily backed by mysterious external powers.

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/49306000/jpg/_49306637_010301005-1.jpg

Apparent photo of heir apparent.

chip off the old block

But at that stage there was not really much to choose between the two Koreas - both dictatorships heavily backed by mysterious external powers.

― The New Dirty Vicar, Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:01 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark

hmmm. a hell of a lot of people did move from north to south before the war. perhaps there was also south-north migration too, given that there was so little to choose between.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Coat_of_Arms_of_North_Korea.svg/500px-Coat_of_Arms_of_North_Korea.svg.png

coat of arms is curious

Not that hilarious:http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/50106000/jpg/_50106624_010705244-1.jpg

South Korea's west sea island of Yeonpyeong, hit by at least 50 artillery shells abruptly fired by North Korea, remained in a state of chaos on Tuesday, with its mountains and civilian homes ablaze with fire, a local government official said.

A spokesman for Incheon Metropolitan City, to which Yeonpyeong Island belongs, said at least four island residents were wounded by the North Korean artillery attacks that began early Tuesday afternoon.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/9/2010/11/ohitson.jpg

Not good. What do they think they're up to?

PS like the coat of arms - nice to see a country in 2010 still trading on its ability to generate electricity

1023: The BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul says there has been no sense of panic in the capital

Too much to worry about in the world lately...

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Detail.jsp?newsMLId=20101123000840

The firing came as the South was carrying out a live-fire exercise in waters off the Bangnyeong Island and the Yeonpyeong Island as part of the annual nine-day Hoguk Exercise, aimed at enhancing interoperability and defense capabilities against North Korea.

so... South Korea were doing a live-fire exercise off the coast, on the border with North Korea? And then the North Koreans... shot at the same island? So confusing.

http://cl.ly/1B0H3j323N0h1D3f272B

MR IL TEAR DOWN THIS DMZ

tracer that link says 'forbidden'

this is fucking scary

Not that confusing. South Korea fired into disputed (but empty) waters (as in, literally the water, or so I thought). North Korea responded by firing shells into disputed but modestly populated lil island, killing a few Marines and scaring the bejesus out of civilians.

Scary thing about North Korea is not the country going to war, but more or less accidentally/crazily forcing a war. At which point we will all be dazzled by the elaborate and colorful choreography of its military formations.

lol the war is still going on iirc

There is quite a lot of spin happening, apparently most media outlets are not reporting that US troups were accompanying the South Koreans on their "training exercize" conducted as close to the disputed border with North Korea as the South Korean govt would allow.

So what are toy saying? NK's response was justified? I doubt these exercises were that unusual or provocative.

this is fucking scary

― goole, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 10:52 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

why

not being snarky: but srsly, why? is it that NK might loose a nuke at seoul? can they even do that? if so, then, agreed. but otherwise it seems like any escalation between the two would result in a swift decimation of NK's forces. i am prob naive and uninformed (the usual), but i can't see china seriously backing NK in a way that would prove legitimately dangerous to itself and the rest of the world. always thought their relationship was one between a giant and his kooky brother. like they'd flex at ppl planning aggression, but if the kooky brother does something really stupid, they'll let him get what's coming to him.

see? nothing to worry about.

10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, missiles that can easily reach japan, a million man army with heavy armor. I think there is plenty to worry about. That doesn't even include the humanitarian crisis that would come with the sudden collapse of the PRK.

xpost

So what are toy saying? NK's response was justified? I doubt these exercises were that unusual or provocative.

― Super Cub, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:08 AM (1 minute ago)

I'm sure there are plenty of places to conduct "training exercises" that aren't on a disputed border with a rogue state for one. Tagging along nuclear-armed US ships sure doesn't help matters either.

I mean, I'm no fan of NK foreign policies but surely there are more progressive of diplomacy other than "don't cross this line" taunts and bringing along your big brother in case shit gets heated which it did.

prog forms of dipl^^

ok! like i said: uninformed. sorta thought the NK military was emaciated and woefully underequipped (~stereotypes~).

all that said: is THIS RIGHT NOW genuinely scary? i thought little skirmishes were sorta par for the course in that neck of the woods?

but i can't see china seriously backing NK in a way that would prove legitimately dangerous to itself and the rest of the world

lol kingdom of serbia? idk how legit that is but i guess its the fear

via blogs it seems like sk feels they p much ~have~ to shrug this off so its nbd

could use a TOMBOT on this thread

lol kingdom of serbia? idk how legit that is but i guess its the fear

via blogs it seems like sk feels they p much ~have~ to shrug this off so its nbd

― Lamp, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 1:16 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i see that comparison, yeah. but i guess since, as super cub pointed out, the stakes actually ARE so high that that makes it seem ~less~ likely for what seems to me to be a pretty routine flare-up (didn't nk shoot down a fukkin plane at some point recently??). noone knew that WWI would develop, there was simply nothing like that in recorded history (challopy, but bear with me). whereas, we can make some pretty decent assumptions about the human cost of a massive escalation on the korean peninsula, and i don't think anyone wants to go there (except maybe for il cuz he's fourloko)

(didn't nk shoot down a fukkin plane at some point recently??)

they allegedly sank a sk warship

they totally did.

how ilx covered it:

sooooo...

― long time listener, first time balla (history mayne), Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:45 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol legernd

― MPx4A, Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:35 AM (6 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Hello new peninsular war (had to be careful typing that)

― Neil S, Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:51 PM (6 months ago) Bookmark

imho if any serious hostilities actually erupt the country that will have the biggest headaches over it (well aside from NK and SK lol) is China. they will either have to leave their 'kooky brother' to be decimated by foreign forces, which would be a massive loss of face and regional power, or back NK in a conflict that basically can't be won, sapping resources, etc.

obviously it's not in anyone's interest - NK, or China's - to have a nuke hit Seoul so if that happens there will be a complete political realignment in the area to say the least.

my understanding is that with the handover in power between the very sick jong-il and very young jong-un, our ability to understand why things are happening out of NK has become a little darker

as far as US ships accompanying the yearly exercize, this just happened two days ago:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/11/surprise-north-korea-builds-a-huge-new-uranium-plant/

they allegedly sank a sk warship

― fwiw: lol iirc sb'd u tbqh (dan m), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:21 AM (7 minutes ago)

yes and I can only imagine what the spin-less account of what happened with this was, iirc Obama backed away from it saying something "we need to process our intelligence" suggesting that the SK sub was again straddling that border. then you have the korean american idiots trying to run people out (and back over?) the border and it takes Clinton himself to poach their asses back to the states. Yes, NK is guilty of many things but we (US/SK) sure like fucking with them and getting outraged when they do respond.

and NK should be shown respect why exactly

dont tickle the bear

"Our revolutionary forces will continue to mount merciless military strikes without hesitation if the puppets in the South trespass even 0.0001 millimeters into our waters," North Korea's military command said, according to South Korea's Yonap news agency.

BREAKING

http://grab.by/7xYV

might be going to korea in a few months, hope im there when the dmz comes down and millions of bewildered n koreans flood into the capitalist paradise

and NK should be shown respect why exactly

― in a style known as "Early Cleveland" (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:35 AM (4 minutes ago)

i personally know you're not a neo-con hawk but this is the kind of response i'd expect from one!

i think it's pretty clear this will come to not much, because yes SK has no real choice but to suck it up.

though to an american audience this is always about america (and our ships are around, so it partly is about the US in real terms anyway) so, if you couldn't guess how this conversation is going to go:

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/253821/north-korea-and-ripple-effects-obamas-foreign-policy-victor-davis-hanson

man i always forget how close seoul is to the border

also btw going to google maps and looking at nk is eerie. the level of detail is INSANE, except that it doesn't display any demographic data whatsoever (duh). no towns, no roads, no nothing. just high-def pictures of towns that may or may not exist. crrepy

Can't wait for the animated Taiwanese news video of all this.

South Korea can't do anything, and my impression is that South Korea wouldn't want to do anything even if it would be relatively "easy." There just isn't a political will to attack NK, especially among younger generations of Koreans. Most seem to view NK as a dangerous and sad country, not a rival/enemy. The South is all about managing the demise of the PRK with as little chaos and bloodshed possible.

xpost

Most seem to view NK as a dangerous and sad country, not a rival/enemy. The South is all about managing the demise of the PRK with as little chaos and bloodshed possible.

isn't this pretty much what the entire world thinks (at a diplomatic level)? that the end of the PRK will be a relatively quiet one, and that the main thing will be what to do with all the people, not actually blowing stuff up? i mean i really do think of NK as the planet's crazy cat lady---like its kinda hilarious and weird until you remember that its really, really awful to live there, in all likelihood, and the neighborhood will be better off when it goes away

It's scary because it's a heavily armed country with nothing to lose, known for its unpredictability and isolation, not to mention its bellicose saber-rattling, that currently may or may not be in the midst of a transition of power from one notorious despot to his mysterious son. And it's not simply a matter of disputed waters or whatever. NK disputes everything but its own all-powerful authority, which is partly maintained by its irrational military mentality. (Irrational in the sense that it feeds and clothes the army while the people starve, I should say).

The South is all about managing the demise of the PRK with as little chaos and bloodshed possible.

This. But unfortunately, the pantomime of mutual antagonism must continue, which increases the chance of one or both parties being pushed into a war neither really wants, especially when things like this result in loss of life. Like, what if NK had admitted to sinking that ship? Would SK have had any choice but to retaliate? Dunno.

i personally know you're not a neo-con hawk but this is the kind of response i'd expect from one!

I just think humoring lunatics is a fool's game, tbh. you will never win. they will still BE LUNATICS

well right, but i think that goes along with what JIC just said---it's less about "humoring lunatics" like yr patting them on the head oh you, and more about understanding fully that they ARE lunatics and that everyone is better off if let them lunatic themselves into an early grave. nb the everyone in the previous sentence explicitly does not include the people that actually live there, who are getting the short end in pretty much any scenario that doesn't involve the immediate dissolution of the DPRK and a massive influx of supportive services from around the world

I guess the other thing is I just don't see any winning scenarios for the PRK here - I agree obviously the ideal solution is to manage their collapse with the least possible bloodshed but otoh I think they are a bit of a paper tiger. they can't nuke seoul without fucking over themselves as well, and I'm kinda dubious that a starved, oppressed, ignorant populace makes for a dangerous and efficient military. but what do I know...

xp

Shakey, NK should certainly be shown "respect". (NB: This is not the same thing as respect.)

The reasons for this are myriad. NK has a duly constituted government. It may be constituted of shitheels and thugs, but it is a government all the same and international law, such as it is, "respects" such entities. Look how well it worked to decide to impose regime change in Iraq, for no better reason than its government was constituted of shitheels and thugs, and we imputed they had nuclear ambitions.

Beyond this, the practical reasons why a war there would be an utter disaster compared to maintaining the status quo would fill a book.

So, please refrain from knee-jerk reactions that wouold serve you better in a barroom brawl than in diplomatic relations. It's just such instinctive disdain that lets people like neo-cons whip up a nice little war for us with 85% favorable polling -- before the first shot is fired, of course -- that turn into "long slogs" that cost a trillion dollars or more.

Iraq not really the same scenario here, Dubya's "Axis of Evil" nonsense notwithstanding

well it IS in the int'l relations sense. like, the DPRK actually is a country with some semblance of administrative unity. it isn't somalia, you know? so unless you actively want to provoke someone with an army, you should probably toe the literal and figurative line

It's entirely possible that a war would result in the rapid collapse of the PRK, and the North Korean's love of the Great Leader (and willingness to fight) would instantly evaporate. The whole thing could tumble like a house of cards.

On the other hand...

xxxposts

Surely a government that willfully neglects its people in favor of military build-up forfeits some of its claim to international legitimacy.

btw I'm not advocating for invasion or anything here I just thought Shasta was being a bit OTT with his implication that the US/SK deliberately provoked NK here. the DRP is CRAZY, they will and have used ANY LITTLE THING as a provocation. trying to avoid provoking them is like tryign to keep the sun from coming up.

xp

of course i should add that even tho i'm "against killing" and wars and all, i occasionally wonder why the US doesn't just ace ppl like kim jong il. i mean, i KNOW why, but i've been conditioned by movies to assume that the assassination of a despot is a walk in the park, diplomacy be damned.

lol NK probably WOULD use the sun coming up as a pretext for shooting something somewhere

not sure what shasta was thinking, but i think that it's precisely BECAUSE the DPRK is so easily provoked that it seems a little foolish to involve US forces with any provocation (and certainly to encourage it).

The whole thing could tumble like a house of cards.

Echo of the infamous "they will welcome us as liberators" nonsense, pre-Iraq war.

oh come on we have what 50K troops there, we're all over everything

xp

Echo of the infamous "they will welcome us as liberators" nonsense, pre-Iraq war.

I dunno how much I need to emphasize this but Iraq /= NK

Echo of the infamous "they will welcome us as liberators" nonsense, pre-Iraq war.

― Aimless, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:07 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark

ok, now you're pushing it a bit. iraq may have been dysfunctional and bad, but the DPRK is literally a million times worse, if we're going to conjure up a spectrum of Bad To Live In.

1023: The BBC's John Sudworth in Seoul says there has been no sense of panic in the capital

― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 23 November 2010 21:33 (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

After 50+ years of having a billion DPRK rockets pointed at them they're probably inured to the threat of annihilation.

I just think humoring lunatics is a fool's game, tbh. you will never win. they will still BE LUNATICS

― in a style known as "Early Cleveland" (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:56 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

feel like this is a pretty know nothing pov

please to spell out course of action wherein DPRK doesn't see "provocation" in every little goddamned thing

especially because those "provocations" are used for domestic audience and win points in internal power struggles.

I mean it's pretty obvious that NK orchestrates these mini-crisis for whatever reason.

love how you can be all THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ITS JUST NUTJOBS and then demand a detailed policy proposal in response, are you sure youre not the lunatic xp

NK is like a needy, violent kid - if you don't pay attention to it, it will ensure you pay attention to it. This has been the country's negotiation strategy for years. Demand crazy stuff, get mired in determining a compromise, establish a default detente, then do it over again. The relationship between NK and the USA has largely been one of extorter and patient extortion victim - they threaten to go nuke, we offer them food and fuel to not go nuke. Whatever advantage NK has in actually going nuke seems less than what is has threatening to go nuke, but who knows what makes these dudes tick.

Also, the relationship between the US and SK is a weird one as well. S Koreans seem to resent the US presence in their region, but at the same time recognize why we're there. I have no idea what would happen if we just left, though. Would NK consider that a victory? Does it matter?

In some ways NK reminds me a bit of Albania. Crazed despot isolates country, convinced an invasion is imminent. (Hoxha severed ties with ostensible Communist allies China and Russia, I think, because he was so paranoid). Albania is even littered with tens of thousands of bomb shelters, one in virtually every backyard. But of course, Albania didn't even pose a hypothetical threat to its neighbors.

I don't have a shiny uniform and a population to oppress so yeah I'm pretty sure

xp

love how you can be all THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ITS JUST NUTJOBS and then demand a detailed policy proposal in response, are you sure youre not the lunatic

but maybe I am a lunatic because I don't see how these are mutually exclusive positions. I DON'T think there's anything we can do because yes lol nutjobs. You seem to think there IS something we can do. Burden of proof is on you.

this thread: only just now hilarious

point is you make the laziest possible argument, one clearly not based on any particular knowledge of the situation, and then demand that people humor and educate you, in conclusion you must be a crazy person

I think it is so, therefore it is so. A contrary conclusion constitutes an extraordianry claim, which therefore requires extraordinary proof.

^_^

lol clean hit from the ice man

S Koreans seem to resent the US presence in their region

younger S Koreans more than older. people that grew up in the 50s there have a more understanding viewpoint towards US bases on their soil

NK has a duly constituted government. It may be constituted of shitheels and thugs, but it is a government all the same and international law, such as it is, "respects" such entities. Look how well it worked to decide to impose regime change in Iraq, for no better reason than its government was constituted of shitheels and thugs, and we imputed they had nuclear ambitions.

this is a stupid parallel in any case, but the logic of 'they have a duly constituted government' is pretty awful in its implications

not endorsing invasion btw, just saying that the terrible disaster of iraq has made people crazy

only awful in that it might suggest that a "duly constituted government" can do what it wants with its citizenry, right? cf nazis

"only"

iraq may have been dysfunctional and bad, but the DPRK is literally a million times worse

also fucking ridiculous, "literally a million times worse", get a grip, or maybe read some about iraq

point is you make the laziest possible argument, one clearly not based on any particular knowledge of the situation, and then demand that people humor and educate you, in conclusion you must be a crazy person

I make no claims to having any specialized knowledge. If there is some rational basis (as Shasta implies) driving the DPRKs never-ending cries of provocation, by all means please elaborate. As far as I can tell, they use the flimsiest of pretexts to rattle their sabres and bare their teeth - whether or not the US actually DOES anything seems largely immaterial.

xp

also fucking ridiculous, "literally a million times worse", get a grip, or maybe read some about iraq

― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Tuesday, November 23, 2010 2:44 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

also fucking ridiculous: taking something like "literally a million times worse" at face value. my only point is that, from what i've read (clearly not a lot), it seems like the situation in NK for a given NK citizen is likely much worse than that of an average citizen in iraq under saddam.

the logic of 'they have a duly constituted government' is pretty awful in its implications

Agreed. But the logic of "we don't like their government, so we may use military force to whatever extent we desire in order to change it to one more to our liking" is, if anything, worse. The problem is creating clear criteria that will be fairly and universally applied. There's always a loophole, always a disagreement, and always a case to be made on each side.

As for Iraq/NK being a stupid parallel, I can't agree. The details of every conflict in every region will naturally be different, but where the parallel does exist is at the point where arguments are made that an aggressive war is justified by the behavior of the opponent. Those claims and counter-claims always sound hauntingly familiar, whether it is Iran vs. Iraq or the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.

the point where arguments are made that an aggressive war is justified by the behavior of the opponent

FYI no one is making this argument

FYI no one is making this argument

The argument is indeed being made. Calling the opponent "lunatics" is integral to the argument for war. Saying, for instance, "iraq may have been dysfunctional and bad, but the DPRK is literally a million times worse" is also a fundamental part of the argument.

What is lacking here is not the argument but the conclusion the argument leads to. Once the argument is well constructed in the public mind, the final step is a very short one. Many of us seem to be properly primed for taking that step, when called upon to do so.

you are being silly.

and fwiw I didn't mean no one's making that argument just on this thread. I have literally never seen anyone seriously advance the argument that NK should be invaded on grounds similar to those used as a pretext for Iraq.

otoh this entire thread DOES pretty clearly illustrate the lunacy of the DPRK. They are not rational actors.

I really don't understand the POV you're advocating here - that we should treat NK with the attendant dignity and respect that they demand, regardless of their actual behavior, policies, and public demeanor? gtfo

/FYI no one is making this argument/

The argument is indeed being made. Calling the opponent "lunatics" is integral to the argument for war. Saying, for instance, "iraq may have been dysfunctional and bad, but the DPRK is literally a million times worse" is also a fundamental part of the argument.

What is lacking here is not the argument but the conclusion the argument leads to. Once the argument is well constructed in the public mind, the final step is a very short one. Many of us seem to be properly primed for taking that step, when called upon to do so.

wtf dude leave me out of this.

actually wait I've never seen anyone advance the argument that NK should be invaded on ANY grounds now that I think about it

You all are bickering like North and South Korea.

anyway is yr point that concluding that Iraq/DPRK is so bad and hated is a necessary condition for mounting popular support for war? yes duh.

but as shakey said: no one is concluding that war is a good idea. could you? sure go ahead

calling opponent "lunatics" is literally a million times less serious than making an agument for war.

aimless being somewhat hyperbolic but yes concluding that the situation is unworkable because yr adversary is omg crazy wont listen to reason is a fairly universal rational for war

Disrespecting them isn't going to add anything useful to the mix, Shakey.

There do not seem to be any constructive actions available to us at present that we are not already taking. Dehumanizing them, disrespecting them, or demonizing them is not productive of anything but a mindset that makes it easier to demand action, even when that action makes matters worse, and a sense of superiority that clouds one's judgment.

none of us are making any decisions re nk iirc

can't believe shakey mo collier just nuked n korea

the thing abt n koreas serial provocations is that this is how they engage in diplomacy, they just want a lil food and attention, and yeah theyre pretty skilled at putting their negotiating partners in a lesser of two evils type bind

Shit, gbx, I'm pretty sure this will mean little to you, but we are all making decisions about how we regard NK, and those decisions do make a difference in a situation like this. Americans were predisposed to hate commies in 1963, and N. Vietnam was full of commies. We were predisposed to hate Saddam. We're now becoming more and more predisposed to hate on Muslims generally. NK is still in the nasty commies camp. Etc.

It's not like engaging in such thinking is utterly without consequence.

dude why do you insist on being a such smug asshole? you made a pretty facile observation (yes, othering the enemy is a waypoint on the road to war) and seem to be intent on suggesting that if i or anyone else thinks "man the dprk doesn't seem like a very rational actor" then we are already apologists for a war that hasn't even happened, and likely won't. which is a good thing, btw.

Heavens, those facile observations just keep getting in the way of the greater profundities being exchanged here.

ha

haha ok fair

north korea is just going to have to get by with me thinking their ruling clique is a bunch of monsters.

american hawks are going to have to get by likewise.

not that they're the same or anything!!

I'm nuking all of you btw

shocker!

amazing that a thread titled "North Korea: still hilarious" is light on int'l diplomacy seriousness

feel like w/north korea people are confusing awfulness for irrationality, seems like their actions bare their desired fruits as often as any more humane nations, the fact that theyre in process of an unprecedented in modern times for a despotic pariah state third generational transfer of power is testament to the fact that they know what theyre doing

starving your populace not the most rational of political decisions imho. hasn't worked out very well historically.

rational enough for you and your army if there's not much food around

except in china (site of the worst starvation in human history) and north korea, at some point yall hand waving psychologists are gonna have to grapple w/the fact that n korea has been a country for like 60 years, something yr average lunatic would have a hard time managing xp

i think icey is right; the 'irrationality' is thrown out there, sometimes, to say, there's nothing we can do, the whole country is nuts, bombs away already.

but there is a big question as to how deep into the populace and how fanatical the support of the Kims goes. it could be most of the country is very clear-eyed about who is causing their misery. or it could be there really are huge swathes of true believers who'd rather die than join the South. it kinda depends on which other despotism you want to compare it to.

they've extended the Mao/Stalin model farther/longer than either managed. Agree that the real miracle has been the transition of power from one ruler to the next, with no real attendant change in policy. Highly unusual. they're kind of in uncharted territory in that respect

xp

read this interview w/a n korean escapee teen girl who went across a froze river into china and she was clear that at least where she was from in the western part of the country people hate the government pretty much but they just got them so locked down that any sort of uprising feels pretty impossible - they snatch people up and throw them in work camps at the drop of hat, control commerce tightly etc - and as is typical in these situations the leadership is protected by a relatively large favored elite - now obvs that anecdotal but its consistent w/what other refugees say and you makes sense

but also these regimes fall apart from an outsiders pov at seemingly random times - it kind of feels like just looking at it how long can this bizarre anachronism exist in the world today - that may just be lack of imagination speaking tho

maybe un will just say fuck it and hand his problems over to his friends in the south, thatd be nice

but also these regimes fall apart from an outsiders pov at seemingly random times - it kind of feels like just looking at it how long can this bizarre anachronism exist in the world today - that may just be lack of imagination speaking tho

^^^that's definitely how I feel about it. it's kind of some cruel miracle that the regime has lasted this long, they've run with this schtick longer and farther than anyone ever has. it's bizarre.

xp

The schtick is slowly losing its grip internally, if Barbara Demick's recent book is to be believed. The famine seems to have dulled much (but not all obv) of the blind GL/DL adulation.

x-post The country is pretty irrational, isn't it? Unlike, say, Iran, whose wants, needs and desires can be frustrating but are pretty clear, and whose positions are pretty well understood, N. Korea is an enigma. Leave 'em alone? They don't like that. Give them what they want? They like that, as long as you realize they want more. Engage? They break off talks. Suggest talks? They require good faith actions (but don't expect any in return). I mean really, everything we do for N. Korea we essentially do just to keep some semblance of talks going. Meanwhile. N. Korea does whatever it wants. What's unclear about N. Korea is either a) it really thinks it's in danger of invasion or b) it's just cynically using that alleged threat as a pretense for aggressive bargaining. But you've got to figure N. Korea could get a lot more out of cooperation than it does from total obstinence, without losing a bit of autonomy. Again, look at Iran, hardly pushovers. There are any number of despotic regimes that do what they want, yet aren't quite so isolated. How exactly does N. Korea benefit from its behavior? That is, what can it get by behaving the way it does that it probably couldn't get by some other less antagonistic means?

just cause you dont know what theyre doing doesnt mean they dont know what theyre doing

what can it get by behaving the way it does that it probably couldn't get by some other less antagonistic means?

yeah this is the yardstick I'm measuring them by

by that measure most if not all countries are insane

I don't know about that

Most if not all countries don't let their people starve en masse to strengthen a bargaining position.

My point is that N. Korea can still stay plenty inscrutable, unpredictable, mysterious, whatever, toning things down a few notches from where it stands now.

and my point is pretty much every country could stand to tone it down a notch or two, people be aggressive and are hard to reason w/if its working out for them

pretty sure this is all fallout from them not getting out of the group stage in south africa

x-post But again, most countries do not allow their people to starve. Though I'm not sure who is worse on this front, Kim or Mugabe. At least North Koreans gets top-notch security out of the deal!

I feel like Mugabe's as bad as it gets in pretty much every way but I'll cop to knowing a lot less about NK

josh i really have no idea what you are arguing except that n korea has let its people starve and most countries dont do that, if thats all youre saying then yes i agree n korea has let its people starve and most countries dont do that

Most countries also have free public health care.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images/kim-jong-il-smiling.jpg

health care? yeah ill give you some health care

n korea still hilarious^

I liked Hitchens' term about North Korea's government: a necrocracy.

x-post I wasn't making an argument. It's just that every time someone said "North Korea is crazy!" you'd say something like "well, lots of countries are crazy." "North Korea is aggressive!" "Well, lots of countries are aggressive." I was trying to demonstrate one way that North Korea is not like other countries, and how its behavior reflects the mindset of a nation that would willfully let its own people starve. That is to say, irrational to the extent that its extreme purported self-preservation has been perverted into a sow form of self-destruction. Not a lot of countries like that (save Zimbabwe, but Zimbabwe does not make military threats).

(Ha, that should be "slow form of self-destruction." Though I imagine the lack of sows in N. Korea hasn't helped the food issue.)

Part of studying history, and exercising the right judgment, I think, is recognizing when examples don't follow the predicted norms of behavior or patterns. North Korea is one.

josh i really have no idea what you are arguing except that n korea has let its people starve and most countries dont do that, if thats all youre saying then yes i agree n korea has let its people starve and most countries dont do that

― ice cr?m, Tuesday, November 23, 2010 11:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

off the top of my head:

ussr
china
north korea

idk if that sounds neocon, just saying

josh countries are different in lots of ways

but otherwise it seems like any escalation between the two would result in a swift decimation of NK's forces

Srsly? In a North vs. South scenario ppl think these guys, who could (in fact probably have been) eat dirt to stay alive

http://resources0.news.com.au/images/2009/03/13/1225699/420384-north-korean-soldiers.jpg

are going to beaten by these dudes, who look like they're out of a fruity playstation (PS1 at that) game

http://img.hani.co.kr/imgdb/resize/2006/0926/1159250331_03591928_20060926.JPG

Shit, gbx, I'm pretty sure this will mean little to you, but we are all making decisions about how we regard NK, and those decisions do make a difference in a situation like this. Americans were predisposed to hate commies in 1963, and N. Vietnam was full of commies. We were predisposed to hate Saddam. We're now becoming more and more predisposed to hate on Muslims generally. NK is still in the nasty commies camp. Etc.

Like if the West weren't so predisposed to hatin' commies, we'd all be living in fuckin' Stalinist love harems by now. : )

N. Korea is an enigma. Leave 'em alone? They don't like that. Give them what they want? They like that, as long as you realize they want more. Engage? They break off talks. Suggest talks? They require good faith actions (but don't expect any in return). I mean really, everything we do for N. Korea we essentially do just to keep some semblance of talks going. Meanwhile. N. Korea does whatever it wants.

If you replace 'N. Korea' with 'Apple' and 'we' with the name of any other company the entire passage still works.

man you really hate those dudes

fair enough too

Are you suggesting we should invade Apple?

y

If you guys really wanna feel good about this whole situation, take a few minutes to read the comments beneath the CNN article.

NYT:

President Obama and South Korea’s president agreed to hold joint military exercises as they struggled to keep a North Korean provocation from escalating into war.

Hmm... interesting logic.

NYT follow-up article full of all sorts of Dr. Strangelove LOLs:

As diplomatic responses to the incident were being drafted in Washington, Seoul, Beijing and other capitals, the American and South Korean militaries announced Wednesday that an aircraft carrier strike group would lead a four-day exercise in the western sea beginning on Sunday. The strike group is led by the United States carrier George Washington.

Mr. Breen called it “foolishness.”

“The whole idea is just to give them the bird,” he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/25/world/asia/25kim.html?_r=1

can't believe shakey mo collier just nuked n korea

nukey mo collier

guys, this is going to be the funniest world war

oh my aching, irradiated sides

someone drag my knee back over here, I need to slap it

America's Funniest Police Actions

Meanwhile, breaking news from the Central News Agency of the DPRK:

Pyongyang, November 23 (KCNA) -- General Secretary Kim Jong Il provided field guidance to the newly built Soy Sauce Shop at the Ryongsong Foodstuff Factory.

After being briefed on the technical features of the newly built shop, he went round various places including the processes equipped with cutting-edge facilities for producing soy sauce, processed salt, powdered meat and ham to learn in detail about its construction and production there.

It is a great success that the workers of the factory and soldier- builders have successfully built the modern shop as big as a food processing factory in a short span of time, he noted, expressing great satisfaction over the construction of a model shop which can represent the era of Songun.

http://www.hockeydrunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/kim_jong_ok.jpg

we should call north korea's bluff and send kanye in as our new diplomatic envoy

you wanna act all crazy, we'll show you crazy

― tween-justin-bieber-riot-of-09-pandemonium-arrests-terror+tweeting (Edward III), Wednesday, November 24, 2010 6:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I can't find it now coz I is travelling for work but there's a brilliant photo blog of Kim Jong-il posing in warehouses with various food products.

(by 'posing' I mean 'standing awkwardly and detachedly clutching/surveying')

Palin stands with 'our North Korean allies'

PALIN/IL 2012

KIM u racist

HA

oh my fucking god sarah palin

"There was also a new version of the No-dong ballistic missile, with a tri-conic nosecone, on show." - http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/24/north.korea.capability/

If I die because of a no-dong missle ....

I guess Kim gets the Adam & Eve catalog as well…

(that was weak, i know)

It's a new type o' dong: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-13-2003/north-korea-s-taepo-dong

Pretty sure it's a term of the ceasefire that N. Korea stop developing and building all state of the art soy sauce factories. Someone should bomb that shit immediately before they sell it to someone savvy enough to weaponize it.

http://www.5cense.com/10/atomization/soy_bomb.jpg

NYT:

It was unclear whether the arrival of a United States aircraft carrier group off North Korea’s coast would be seen as a provocation.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcgnyif1Mi1qzamioo1_500.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_Metro

#1 천리마선 Line

붉은별 Red Star
전우 Comrade
개선 Triumph
통일 Reunification
승리 Victory
봉화 Torch/Beacon
영광 Glory
부흥 Revitalization

#2 혁신선 Line

광복 Restoration/Independence
건국 National Foundation
황금벌 Golden Soil
건설 Construction
혁신 Innovation
전승 Complete Victory (in Battle)
삼흥 Three Rejuvenations
광명 Shine/Enlightenment
락원 Paradise

http://kimjongillookingatthings.tumblr.com/

those are v helpful geographically relevantly named subway stations, thank you dear leader

전승 Complete Victory (in Battle)

센터 Central
음경 Penis
바보 Idiot

똥차 Midget's Turd (end of line)

Want Kim Jong Il coat

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcdxkgl0i51qewv1lo1_500.jpg

LOL, that dude writing shit down is so totally getting killed for rocking the same coat as Dear Leader.

They are off to catch whales.

Breaking news: LATEST: North Korea ready for 'sacred war' with South using nuclear weapons, says armed forces minister. More details soon ...

Funny guys getting funner.

have some friends touristing in SK, they're not back til monday. :/

They should def. get back before the nuclear sacred war starts.

pretty sure nuclear sacred war will interfere with punctual air travel, they may wanna call ahead and check

No, they just alter the route to fly around the nuclear sacred war. Might even shave a few minutes off the trip, and imagine the view out the left side of the plane!

north korea's sacred war (ft. nuclear weapons)

have yall seen this

if you have 45 mins you should watch it here or netflix it or whatever

deeply unsettling and fucked up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxLBywKrTf4

THIS VIDEO CONTAINS CONTENT FROM NATIONAL
GEOGRAPHIC, WHO HAS BLOCKED IT IN YOUR COUNTRY
ON COPYRIGHT GROUNDS.

Never mind, just stole it. Sorry for you National Geocockscrape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm0hIaVSbWg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqBWSknlWQ

That narrator woman has an axe over her head doesn't she?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13hiAxyonJs

Could have been shot at any time in the past 40 years.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Ryugyeong_Hotel_on_February_2011.jpg/250px-Ryugyeong_Hotel_on_February_2011.jpg

Bigger image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Ryugyeong_Hotel_on_February_2011.jpg

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2011/10/03/2011100300523.html

family politics, feels like a russian novel

An amazing human flesh search.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/8809102/The-unpalatable-appetites-of-Kim-Jong-il.html

not really surprising, still fucking shameful

Someone told called me "Abbott Jong Il" when I was wearing my glasses the other day. ;_;

that was really mean and I'm sorry you had to go through that. next time you see him/her, tell him/her that I called him/her a poopyhead.

are you crazy? kjl is a style icon

lagerfeld of modern despots

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/11/15/north-korea-claim-unofficial-world-champions-title/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBgMeunuviE

pretty heartwarming!

http://i.imgur.com/UHeOd.jpg

so reports of Kim Jong-Un having been assassinated in Beijing are bollocks, right?

and when I say reports, I mean "rumours on Twitter"

Kim Jong was un assassinated?

Twitter rumour, but the rumour is getting some traction
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/02/twitter-weibo-light-kim-jong-un-death-rumors/48565/

UN DEAD

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korean-claims-unicorns-are-real-2012-11

url kinda says it all, really.

that URL leaves out the words "News Agency"! north korean news agency claims unicorns are real! wow. if only north korea was a magical place to live...

"unicorn lair"

sounds like a name for a gay bar in a 70s crime movie tbh

but it fucking doesn't say anything about them claiming unicorns are real.

the one guy quoted in the story even refers to the unicorn thing as "associated with legend."

and i'll guess they're talking about a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin

KNCA reports a "rectangular rock carved with words 'Unicorn Lair' stands in front of the lair.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHauC3GkUkeBzrFKbwYQOVFwV6p2p9edewolzgktagyKyULgPr

i don't want to split hairs here but how is that proof that kcna believes unicorns are real?

here's the original: http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2012/201211/news29/20121129-20ee.html

The discovery of the unicorn lair, associated with legend about King Tongmyong, proves that Pyongyang was a capital city of Ancient Korea as well as Koguryo Kingdom."

i think it would be more interesting to talk about the practice of archeology in north korea, its ideological uses, what it means that nk is using archeological finds to reconfirm that pyongyang is the ancient capital of "Ancient Korea." something instead of playing the headline for the lulz.

http://www.questgreekislands.com/travel/activities/1389-climbing-mount-olympus.html

does this article claim that the gods of the ancient greek pantheon are real?

Mount Olympus is home to the gods of Greek mythology and Greece's highest mountain which is located on the Greek mainland. Mount Olympus is an impressive mountain and principal peak of a still-wild mountain area.

North Korea to launch long-range rocket in December

cue "a big 'dong for Christmas" joeks

They should call the missile the Unicorn Horn.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQhB0ZgBK4Qr34_AZr9pCMXRMum-V3nE2ntOw4UMuDDwXweMeRKlw

http://digg.tumblr.com/post/45262980994/north-korean-propaganda-video-shows-how-americans

"They drink coffee made out snow, live in tents and buy guns to kill each other and children."

lil kim stars in 'this old boat'

http://i.imgur.com/SACseei.jpg

Reminder that the DPRK runs a Cafepress:

http://www.cafepress.com/kfashop.788830791

(want that mousepad)

Too bad the propaganda movie was taken down. It often sucks here, but it would take a hell of a imagination to make living in the US seem worse than what life in NK must be like.

Is it for real? I thought I read somewhere that it was a parody. But then again the fact that it was largely plausible that it did come from the NK gov't (given the bizarre shit they've put out lately) says plenty.

Yeah, this country's rabbit hole is so deep it's hard to tell which way is even up or down.

angry birds comes to north korea

also, nothing new but still fascinating: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/31/behind-the-spectacle-the-ugly-truth-about-north-koreas-mass-games/

We've got Miley, they've got...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10272953/Kim-Jong-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html

(not hilarious btw)

jesus christ!

She was luckier than Kim Chol, vice minister of the army, who was executed with a mortar round in October 2012.

Kim Chol was reportedly executed for drinking and carousing during the official mourning period after Kim Jong-il's death.

On the explicit orders of Kim Jong-un to leave "no trace of him behind, down to his hair," according to South Korean media, Kim Chol was forced to stand on a spot that had been zeroed in for a mortar round and "obliterated."

still hilarious!!!

Hyon's band was responsible for a string of patriotic hits in North Korea, including "Footsteps of Soldiers," "I Love Pyongyang," "She is a Discharged Soldier" and "We are Troops of the Party." Her popularity reportedly peaked in 2005 with the song "Excellent Horse-Like Lady."

the independant:

Among those killed was said to be singer Hyon Song-wol, who reached an international audience when she won a Hungarian competition in 2005 and released the hit single “A Girl In The Saddle Of A Steed” – often mistranslated as “Excellent Horse-Like Lady”.

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_heart_pyongyang_north_korea_trucker_hats-ra9e78b7968de4366bf84c2c7d4eedee8_v9wfy_8byvr_512.jpg

http://rlv.zcache.com/i_heart_pyongyang_aprons-r094f77b2ca0f45519c1df676bd220ae8_v9wh6_8byvr_324.jpg

damn. what a fucked up world.

300 page report from the Rand corporation on preparing for a North Korean collapse

It explains how appropriate preparations now could reduce the negative consequences that could otherwise occur.

i love it. god bless america.

Jang Song-thaek, an uncle of the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un and a man widely considered to be No. 2 in the Pyongyang government, has been dismissed from all posts of influence, the National Intelligence Service of South Korea told Parliament on Tuesday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/world/asia/uncle-of-north-korean-leader-stripped-of-power-according-to-reports.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=all

BBC speculates his removal might be for health reasons, with a continuing behind the scenes role. But really who knows?

Maybe his deputies were executed also for health reasons.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25197281 is the speculation FWIW

The story of the 80-something Korean War vet being held there - they just made him do a hostage video - is pretty weird. I guess an eBook he had said something bad about NK, or at least they claim to have taken offense? And they're sort of charging him with war crimes?

The bizarre and baffling tale of an elderly Palo Alto man who’s been detained by North Korea for more than a month grew even more mysterious Saturday as new details emerged about his role during the Korean War secretly training anti-communist guerrillas fighting behind enemy lines.

New revelations that 85-year-old Merrill Edward Newman had served in a once-top-secret U.S. Army unit nicknamed the “White Tigers’’ explains why the North Koreans detained the retired corporate finance executive last month as Newman was about to leave with a fellow Palo Alto traveler after a 10-day visit.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20131202/new-details-on-california-grandfather-held-hostage-in-north-korea

havent had a good ol' stalinist purge and public executions in a while

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lesliejo/was-an-american-college-student-kidnapped-by-north-korea

the answer to the headline question is probably no. but interesting.

their tv is serious no funny

not funny

http://sinonk.com/2013/12/06/sino-nk-2013-rewind-sepho-and-the-quiet-charisma-of-grassland-reclamation/

the bum's rush
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25295312

drug abusing womaniser executed
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25359939

ice cold

calls for a display name change

There was speculation that the family connection would mean house arrest in the countryside forever but it looks like he's sending a message that he's tougher than his father.

I was dreaming, dreaming different dreams
and double-dealing, involved behind the scenes...

From what I've read, he was an advocate of economic reform. Which I guess will be put on the back burner yet again...

He'd also survived a previous purge, so bad luck second time around...

Not really feeling too hilarious today

every time I spend more than a few minutes reading about north korea (or worse, reading the press releases from the N Korean news agency) part of my brain just cannot wrap itself around the facts. i half expect one of these guys to pop out, smile, say "just kidding!"

i mean:

DPRK People Determined to Remain Loyal Only to Kim Jong Un
Pyongyang, December 12 (KCNA) -- As already reported, the chance and alien elements who had made their ways into the Workers' Party of Korea committed anti-party, counter-revolutionary factional acts. They expanded their forces through factional moves and dared challenge the party while attempting to undermine the unitary leadership of the party.
In this regard, KCNA had an interview with teachers and students of Kim Il Sung University.
Paek Chol, an official of the university, said:
The purge of the Jang Song Thaek group of anti-party and counter-revolutionary elements made our party and revolutionary ranks purer.
It is the height of folly for them, bereft of elementary sense of moral obligation and conscience, to dare undermine the single-minded unity provided by Generalissimos Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il.
A sledgehammer blow should be delivered at anyone who goes against the single-minded unity of our people around supreme leader Kim Jong Un.
The recent case has hardened the people's will to remain loyal only to him.
Pak Kum Sun, a teacher, said:
The group's acts remind me of the past in which some anti-party, counter-revolutionary factionists who had sneaked into the revolutionary ranks challenged the party whenever the Korean revolution was undergoing trials.
The purge of the group represents public mindset to invariably follow the respected Marshal Kim Jong Un.
No one can dampen their strong will to hold him in high esteem as the center of unity and leadership.
Sim Kang Sik, a student, said:
The single-minded unity of the leader, the party and the masses based on the great idea is the most precious treasure that can be bartered with nothing.
No matter how the situation may change, I will follow Kim Jong Un only.

(from http://www.kcna.co.jp/item/2013/201312/news12/20131212-17ee.html)

there is no reason not to believe they are deadly serious about this stuff, esp. given events of the past week. but it's a wonder to think that this mentality could survive even the slightest bit of fresh air.

Uncle Chang Song-thaek executed

13 December 2013 Last updated at 10:01 GMT

North Korea has executed Chang Song-thaek, the once-powerful uncle of the country's leader Kim Jong-Un.

State media said he had been executed after being purged for acts of treachery, and described him as a "wicked political careerist, trickster and traitor".

The White House said it was another example of the regime's extreme brutality.

i figured we covered that already...?

NK looks to me like a place where Stalinism was wildly successful at doing exactly what it was designed to do.

Pyongyang is the most eerie place on earth. There's an extremely sinister atmosphere, made all the more disconcerting by the fact that there was a near-total absence of people altogether. It has a very Stalinist vibe of being designed by some mechanical, non-emotional being and simultaneously devoid of living, breathing individuals.

bad to be a bad uncle

North Korea: still Eerie

don't know if the horrific details of thaek's execution were previously known:

unlike previous executions of political prisoners which were carried out by firing squads with machine guns, Jang was stripped naked and thrown into a cage, along with his five closest aides. Then 120 hounds, starved for three days, were allowed to prey on them until they were completely eaten up. This is called "quan jue", or execution by dogs.

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-story/asia-report/china/story/jangs-execution-bodes-ill-china-20131224

jfc

hoax?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/01/03/no-kim-jong-un-probably-didnt-feed-his-uncle-to-120-hungry-dogs/?hpid=z3

Hilarious that anyone believed it

surely all the cats and dogs (and horses and cows and chickens and pigs and rats and squirrels) have been eaten already

believable considering we live in a world where regimes and drug cartels have done even worse things, but the lack of other reporting and the specific number of dogs should have given it away. : |

anti aircraft guns seem a bit OTT too.

Can't they just use lethal injection like a civilised nation would do? Barbarians.

During one of the previous purges it was reported that the official was tied to a pole in field and a mortar shell was fired at him

I don't recall any news outlet disproving that one

I kind of wonder if the insane execution stories are less about outsiders being all "you crazy for this one Kim" and more posturing by the NK regime to keep people in line.

I remember that story too xp

Like, each story seems so outlandish that it provides more support for the next, even more outlandish one

Like how 100s of people were machine gunned in public sports stadiums for watching South Korean soap operas, while their compatriots were made to watch?

Was that real?

Ravenous dogs seems a bit old hat for a progressive forward thinking Maoist regime to be using.

If I were North Korea, I would be very happy having something this ridiculous hanging out there.

i had an angle on this

it's somewhere around here, i swear

I mean, the Korean language does have a name for this type of execution...

Inside the Tale of North Korea Execution by Ravenous Dog

There is no end to shocking stories from North Korea, many involving the myriad cruelties of the brutal police state as reported by defectors. But the latest tale — a news media report that the young North Korean leader might have had his uncle torn apart by ravenous dogs while he watched — may say less about the North than what outsiders have come to expect of it.

Here’s how it all started. More than three weeks ago, a Hong Kong newspaper, Wen Wei Po, published an article saying the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, had ordered his uncle, Jang Song-thaek, to be stripped naked, then thrown into a cage where he and his five closest aides were set upon by 120 dogs that had been not been fed for days. The men were completely devoured in front of Mr. Kim, the Hong Kong report said, without naming any sources.

The death-by-dog story got more traction online starting Dec. 24, when a commentary published in The Straits Times, based in Singapore, said the fact that Wen Wei Po ran such a lurid article was a sign of the Chinese Communist Party’s “displeasure” at North Korea. It called Wen Wei Po the party’s “official mouthpiece” in Hong Kong. The writer of the commentary, Ching Cheong, was a journalist for Wen Wei Po before joining The Straits Times. In April 2005, while employed by the Singapore newspaper, he was detained by Chinese security officers during a reporting trip in southern China. Despite protests by other journalists and human rights organizations, Chinese officials imprisoned him for three years on charges of spying for Taiwan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ko4VvuObU

The worst part of the whole Rodman/Former NBA stars tour of NKorea is that the US team lets the NKorea team win every time by a significant margin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/world/asia/lets-stop-all-the-insults-north-korea-says.html?hp

Mr. 100%:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/kim-jong-un-wins-100-votes-north-korea-election-n49011

Decreases barber small talk.

http://hayabusa3.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/mnewsplus/1395672976/19

Not new, but related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2XVNFzNlZ8

we called it the 'Chinese smuggler haircut'

Also, for those who find this thread in The Future, another must-read thread concerning ilxor quincie's visit to NK.

https://s3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/xJl7v7lg.7QaPS34T9n2xA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTgwMDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz0xMjc1/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-03-31T052816Z_1512288749_GM1EA3V0XG001_RTRMADP_3_KOREA-NORTH.JPG

that's...beautiful?

you think it's hilarious now, but just wait until the exploding assholes attack the west coast.

Also, for those who find this thread in The Future, another must-read thread concerning ilxor quincie's visit to NK.

― I wear the fucking pin, don't I? (Aimless), Wednesday, March 26, 2014 9:26 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

link doesn't work

It's on 77

I need to update! I have specific things to post about but I want to do them justice so I have put it off.

The thing about visiting NK, for me, was like "Army of 1 million Holy Shit"

But honestly, after being there, this place is no threat to anyone. It just isn't. And they know it, and that makes them scared, puts them on the defensive, and results in a lot of sword-rattling bullshit that is just super sad.

I mean when I talk to people who visited the USSR during the Cold War, so many of them say the same thing: the USSR threat was vastly overplayed in Western politics to achieve specific political ends, i.e. massive defense expenditures that were far in excess of the actual threat.

I mean I'm no NK scholar, and not a betting woman (OH WAIT yes I am). *It* (whatever *it* is) will happen in Kim Jong Un's lifetime. There won't be another Kim dictator, is what I feel in my gut after being there.

I think the fears about NK are a lot less that they'd launch a traditional military attack and more that they'd destabilize things? If they attacked anyone in an effective manner it'd be a dirty bomb/terrorist-style attack and not their ridiculous missiles. If they completely collapsed in a short period, the aid effort needed from China/USA or the world community would be huge. China's afraid of a ton of refugees/immigrants.

Yeah, in a fair situation it would be "FUCK U RUSSIA NOW *YOU* HAVE TO FIX THIS." And god, for South Korea it would be a disaster. Reunification under an actual democracy would be like 10000X worse that East/West Germany.

In the end, it is the North Koreans who will suffer most. I think about this every day.

Barber guys OTM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-27038723

We've got Miley, they've got...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/10272953/Kim-Jong-uns-ex-lover-executed-by-firing-squad.html

― The Bridges of Witchy Woman (Eazy), Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:06 AM (8 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Guess she's back?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/world/asia/north-korean-performer-reported-executed-appears-on-television.html?hp

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/22/us-northkorea-firing-idUSBREA4L09Q20140522

A year in pictures of the tyrant, including him inspecting a biscuit and bollocking the meteorological dept for their "many incorrect forecasts".
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/06/kim-jong-uns-busy-year/100759/

i hate this thread title

those photos are beautiful

Not much hilarity in death camps, starvation and fear I just went for the most active thread without thinking.

"kim jong un gives thread guidance" etc.

i wz born in the rong dictatorship

http://www.usnews.com/news/entertainment/articles/2014/06/25/north-koreas-take-on-new-us-movie-act-of-war

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — North Korea is warning that the release of a new American comedy about a plot to assassinate leader Kim Jong Un would be an "act of war."

If the U.S. government doesn't block the movie's release, it will face "stern" and "merciless" retaliation, an unidentified spokesman for North Korea's Foreign Ministry said in state media Wednesday.

He didn't mention the movie by name but was clearly referring to "The Interview," which stars Seth Rogen and James Franco as a producer and talk-show host who land an exclusive interview with the North Korean dictator and are then asked by the CIA to assassinate him.

The "reckless U.S. provocative insanity" of mobilizing a "gangster filmmaker" to challenge the North's leadership is triggering "a gust of hatred and rage" among North Korean people and soldiers, the spokesman said, in typically heated propaganda language.

The film's release would be considered an "act of war that we will never tolerate," he said.

We didn't stop him when he wrote short stories...we didn't stop him when he opened his art show...and now he's ending Western Civilization as we know it...

He is 5'9".

http://i62.tinypic.com/6to49i.jpg

the one with the nurses and the babies is the most horrifying

Holy shit at the number of movies I consider acts of war. Kim Jong Un clearly has dad's movie buff genes. He should move to LA and exercise some real power.

pic no 23 - winter olympics or bust!

The "reckless U.S. provocative insanity"

for some reason i read that as the "reckless U.S. procreative insanity"

Reckless North Korea proactive insanity.

"reckless... provocative insanity" - North Korean Foreign Ministry could be a good blurb for this movie. not a bad phrase when the ill-placed "U.S" is removed.

North Korea are the trolls of the world. I love it.

north korea: i'm lovin' it

http://img1-azcdn.newser.com/square-image/143736-20120410101109/150k-held-in-secret-north-korea-gulag.jpeg

this one might be the most terrifying of all, from that photo series:

http://i.imgur.com/zlbeQRt.jpg

I found that meteorological dept one quite chilling, it is one of the rare pics where he isn't surrounded by the military or WPK people and they look terrified.

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/kju061714/s_k19_RTR3P4LV.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCUcJQ4jA4

http://i.imgur.com/naB5wai.png

kim jong un more like kim jong ill

suffering from "discomfort"?

read somewhere he's got gout which is pretty lol for a guy so young as he is. though i guess organ meat is probably a pretty reliable source of meat in nk

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2769462/Is-really-Un-Fears-health-North-Korean-dictator-weeks-without-public-appearance.html

It has been claimed that Kim has been putting his health at serious risk due to his dangerously high consumption of Emmental cheese...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29563837

Weird.

In NYC and trying to decide whether to stay feet, blocks, or miles away from Sunshine Cinema on Thursday night.

So the entire nation's internet infrastructure is currently offline, or has been taken down? Hmm.

Also, apparently the reported number of NK IP addresses is a paltry 1024. Total. Not shocking but still wow.

WPLG Local 10 News ‏@WPLGLocal10 -- #BREAKING (AP) -- North Korea suffers massive Internet outages; US official declines to say if it is responsible.

us bein' coy.

should offer joint investigation to uncover the culprit

i nominate james franco to chair the blue-ribbon panel convened to get to the bottom of this fiasco.

i'm confused - how can north korea possibly have hackers w/ better skills than, idk, ur average 2600 subscriber?

Comment from the Guardian..

"Ah, South Korea changed their wifi password."

Back online

If thats the best our govt can do I'm a little disappointed. Can we kill kju w a drone or something

whole thing was kinda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DItgw1mU9Us

You come at the Kim, you best not miss.

xxxxpost

http://i.imgur.com/naB5wai.png

Right: "Blub blub! Hahahahaha! Blub!"
Left: "Those were my kids, man."

http://shawnvanderlugt.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/2005_charlie_and_the_chocolate_factory_014.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Y2HOKvd.jpg

In the lobby after a screening of The Interview.

the only 9 people who watched the interview

Liking that sky-blue smock.

he looks like a wax model of himself

he looks like a wax model of himself after eating a before picture wax model of himself

the photo does make you wonder what cracks a sociopathic stalinist head of state up.

i'm assuming that he just made a joke and then everyone was like "oh dear leader you are so funny aaahahahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAAHHHHAAAAHAHAAAAAAAAHAAAAHAAHA OH FUNNY SUPREME LEADER!!!!!!!ahahahahahaahahaahahaaaahahaahahahahahaha, ahem, ahahaha, ahahahahaha, hahahahah, oh dear leader, good one"

for some reason the supreme leader's jokes always seem to be the funniest

http://news.yahoo.com/n-koreas-kim-jong-un-executed-15-top-090014485.html

still hilarious

I heard national orchestras are hotbeds of sedition

Kim Jong Un personally inspected the plans for this new water park 113 occasions and had his prime officers security check the water slides.

he'd have my vote

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/02/asia/cnn-inside-north-korea/

from this ^^

Would probably be good to have a thread title change.

Following on from the report of top officials being knocked off, the S.Korean intelligence agencies have said that the Defence Minister, Hyon Yong-Chol, was executed "with anti-aircraft guns in front of an audience of hundreds":

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32716749

For falling asleep during a parade, i should add.

anti-aircraft guns holy shit

consistently my least favorite ilx thread title

might any govs be interested in assassinating kim jong un or is it seen as too risky/otherwise not worthwhile?