Verdict Reached in Jackson Case

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sould be revealed soon, according to fox news. any bets?

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:36 (twenty years ago)

Not guilty.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

That's my guess, not the official verdict.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

i bet guilty on all charges but conspiricy

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

they're not going to release it for another hour.

― teeny (teeny), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

getting in here early, cause this story will be like the tsunami.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

i'm gonna guess wildly not guilty (sorta like an oj thing, where he's guiltay as fuck but they can't get him on it) because the jury took so damn long.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

I vote not guilty. Also: Eisbär OTM about beating the rush.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)

i think he did it but the verdict will probably be not guilty

― fcuss3n, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

There hasn't been this kind of excitement in the office since the Scott Peterson verdict.

I wanna work from home now.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

As long I can get a nice hotdog afterward, what do I care?

― Matlock-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Verdict will be a tax cut for the wealthy GUILTY! .. or NOT GUILTY!, Fox news reports.

― geyser muffler and a quarter (Dave225), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:50 (twenty years ago)

Not guilty.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

not guilty due to diminished responsibility or some other such conceit.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

The length of the deliberations probably means not guilty. But if there's one accusation where I'd imagine the jury resists playing by the rules of convicting upon the prosecution's ability to "prove" "beyond reasonable doubt" more than other accusations, it's pedo-crimes. So, even taking into account the widely condemned case by the DA, it's still a toss up I guess.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

i cant decide what is gonna be better to see on TV: The jacko fans going ballistic on a guilty verdict, or the sickly jacko dancing on top of his car for the screaming morons with a not guilty verdict

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:52 (twenty years ago)

Definitely the former.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Will Jackson make it to the courthouse in time?

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

Does he know anyone who drives a white Bronco?

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Not guilty.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

he'll walk

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

i'm guessing not guilty, too. just like OJ.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

If he's found guilty, do you think he'll be immediately rushed to the hospital with back problems?

― geyser muffler and a quarter (Dave225), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:57 (twenty years ago)

hahaha no zack, he'll MOONWALK

HE SHOOTS HE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

I believe he's guilty, but I'm betting he'll be found not guilty.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

ditto what alex said.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

I'm predicting not guilty on all counts. And while I'm sure there will be some outrage, the fact is that the state prosecuted him with a very weak case, so if you think he's guilty and you're looking for someone to blame....

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

my guess is the verdict will be guilty.. drama drama :)

― Ludo (Ludo), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

It's a hard thing to prove beyond a resonable doubt.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

How many charges are there?

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)

10 I think.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

I just finished being on a jury friday, so it feels like the world is all in sync. If I were on the jury, I think I'd say not guilty, but I have a skeptical nature.

― Chris H. (chrisherbert), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

my guess is not guilty on all charges except the jesus juice one.

― metal assembly (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

i want to see his nose peel and melt off in a haze of unbearable agony if it's guilty; its like his pseudo-body parts will consciously rebel against his perceived injustice of it all. they need to keep re-touching da nose every 30 mins regularly anyway, did u guys know that?

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0002M3VAM.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

If there's a guitly verdict I think it'll turn out more like the ending to Team America - with an alien hatching out of his head and flying off to its home planet.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

I think the rest of his life is going to be very sad, no matter what the outcome of the trial is.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

he's gonna walk.

I think his career's pretty much finished no matter what though. He may attempt a few other "comeback specials"/shows but he's just gonna be an embarassment to most of the music industry.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

i'm w/ larcole here -- if this doesn't get him, then his looming bankruptcy will.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

He's gonna walk right into the poor house.

― Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

I think most of his life has already been rather sad. Hm, just thinking about everything kinda feels really sad. What a strange human being - so much talent/tragedy wrapped up in one ever-increasingly grotesque figure. He's like a conflicted beast-like villain in a fairty tale, in a way

Still wanna see the nose melt

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

they can't get him just on the intoxication charges though, right? i mean, it's not just a giving booze to a minor charge, but it's use of an intoxication agent for the purposes of committing a felony, right? i find it hard that they'd find him guilty of that but not guilty of the felony.

i'm going to say he walks or he's guilty on the last nine counts (not the conspiracy one.)

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

The CNN.com graphic is so great and ripe for parody.

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

what is this on the news? a jackson convoy heading to the courthouse?

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

NBC news are really straining to maintin their credibility. They just interrupted programming for "Breaking News" (after have the words "Verdict in in Michael Jackson case" on crawl for about five minutes) and then had the nerve to lead with the story of a small plane crash in Florida before adding "we're also covering another story in California..." (your not fooling anyone Brian Williams)

― Tim Smoot, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

Oh, NBC!

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

what is this on the news? a jackson convoy heading to the courthouse?

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_nov2003/JacksonOnRun.jpg

(hides)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/top.jackson.wed.ap.jpg

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:20 (twenty years ago)

I think the nose is attached to the glasses.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/top.jackson.wed.ap.jpg

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

i can't wait for everyone to ignore the verdict and continue talking about jackson as if he's an actual child molester. (if he is found not guilty, of course.) we all know so much better than those judges, do we not?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

well, better than the jury ;)

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

It's a jury, Trace.

xpost

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

so let's skip ahead a few years - who's going to play him in the postmortem biopic?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

THE JURY IS ALL WHITE PPL REMEMBER. SO IF ITS NOT-GUILTY, AMERICA WILL HAVE FINISHED ATONING 4 RODNEY KING

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

There's going to be a pea-soup fueled riot at Andersen's tonight.

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

A delicious riot.

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

He's a pretty lady.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

OMG ANDERSEN'S IS THE BEST

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

i can't believe they interrupted dr. phil to announce that they're going to announce this

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

There's a whole mess of folks outside the courthouse. Might there be violence if the verdict is guilty?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Would MJ fans know how to riot?

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

so let's skip ahead a few years - who's going to play him in the postmortem biopic?

Jack White! Or Andy Serkis.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

it would be funny if the MJ fans attempt some Angela Davis/Black Panther style courtroom liberation stunt...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:31 (twenty years ago)

GOD I LOVE GOING TO THE CIRCUS! (honestly, i love this tabloid shit)

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

No riot. Just lots of angry dancing, crotch grabbing and window breaking. Some of them may turn into panthers.

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

I'd rather see him pull a Charlie Manson and come out with a swastika carved into his forehead.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

Peter Pan, Seven Dwarves "Liberate" Michael Jackson from Courtroom. Film at 11.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

i'm excited about this. i can't do my work. i don't know why, i didn't care until i was watching dr. phil. i didn't even know he was on trial! only 10 more minutes guys! i'm turning into american housewife!

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

10 minutes!!!!

Here's the real question: if he's found guilty, where's he going to go to jail? Would they throw him in a 'normal' prison with the killers and rapists or will he get special treatment because he's a 'high-risk' inmate?

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

it'll be not guilty on all counts, but then they'll get him in some sorta civil case later on, just like OJ.

oh the fun the Daily Show will have with this one.

― kingfish, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

michael jackson found not guilty, walks out of courtroom, on top of SUV, ascends to heaven like mohammed.

hey, it could happen.

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

No riot. Just lots of angry dancing, crotch grabbing and window breaking. Some of them may turn into panthers.

Bahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahayhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

Would they throw him in a 'normal' prison with the killers

Dare to dream!

"Here's your new cellmate, Mr. Flowers."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

Would they throw him in a 'normal' prison with the killers and rapists or will he get special treatment because he's a 'high-risk' inmate?

this is my theory -- he got friendly w/ farrakhan and the NOI precisely in case he went to jail -- so that they'd protect him.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

newsweek said he'll probably go to the protective custody unit that housed manson and sirhan sirhan.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

"Here's your new cellmate, Mr. Flowers."

You know, I used to beg for the revival of men wearing eyeliner. Then the Killers came along. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:40 (twenty years ago)

is sirhan sirhan still alive?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

Gotta watch out with those monkey's paws, Leon.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

We the jury find the defendant...

incredibly fucking weird.

― Rufus 3000 (Mr Noodles), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

Would they throw him in a 'normal' prison with the killers and rapists or will he get special treatment because he's a 'high-risk' inmate?

I assume he'll go to the California Prison Tailor Made For "Celebrity" Criminals. So not normal at all.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

even if he is guilty, won't there be endless appeals, delays, etc.? Guilty or no, it doesn't seem like to me that MJ will ever see the inside of a jail cell, under any circumstances.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

he should go to camp cupcake!!

― metal assembly (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

his motorcade is on the way...

― metal assembly (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

Good grief, imagine a Jackson lp w/Ol' Charlie M. on guitar.

― Marxism Goes Better With Coke (Charles McCain), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

just for the hell of it, i'm guessing he'll be found guilty.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:47 (twenty years ago)

is sirhan sirhan still alive?

SAN FRANCISCO -- If the child molestation case against Michael Jackson ends with a prison sentence, the pop star's likely new home would be almost as exclusive as his Neverland ranch.

It's far from glamorous, but the protective housing unit within Corcoran State Prison is considered a highly desirable refuge for inmates who need extraordinary protection from other prisoners.

It's also home to a handful of California's most notorious criminals.

Occupants of its 8-by-12-foot cells include Charles Manson and Juan Corona, who killed 25 migrant farmworkers in the 1970s. The unit housed Sirhan Sirhan, who assassinated Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, until he was moved to a harsher lockdown in 2003.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:50 (twenty years ago)

hey j.d., you going to the gang gang dance show tonight?

― metal assembly (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

La Toya and Michael have switched clothes. He'll escape while she goes to the slammer.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050613/mdf581469.jpg

― kf, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

Actually, Onimo, it will be liz taylor.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

thx lovebug

i remember hearing the rfk assassination live on radio on holiday in wales (which must be a false memory - why wd it be live?)

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

It could have been live if they were covering RFK's concluding acceptance speech after winning the California primary and thus wrapping up the nomination.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

b/c he'd just finished speaking, and was leaving thru the hotel kitchen. the bbc commentators were probably wrapping up when it happened, assuming they were there.

xpost

― kf, Monday, 13 June 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050613/mdf581469.jpg

Hard times for Corey.

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

i guess ned but i still think it's unlikely

esp.as in my head it is happening at the same time as the moon landing

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

There's going to be a pea-soup fueled riot at Andersen's tonight.

Ha ha! Hap-pea sez not guilty but Sweet-pea knows firsthand what goes on at Neverland.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

God I love Andersen's. The Traveler's Special...

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

I give this trial - 8 bowls of pea soup on my soup-o-meter.

― something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

I think they'll put him away for something, but probably not everything.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Hedging my bets, there.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Mmm, Andersen's.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

"we find him guilty of ebony and ivory m'lud"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

My god, then the verdict would never end.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

OMG HURRY UP AND ANNOUNCE IT ALREADY

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/top.1653.mj.arr.pool.jpg

Look at that face... is that the face of a guilty man?

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

is that the face of a man?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

guilty of being white

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

Therefore, not guilty.

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

here it comes

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Charles Gibson just said, "Michael Jackson was literally on top of the world."

― jergins (jergins), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

ooo baby

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

...about twenty years ago, maybe.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

No audio feed so far

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

Oh man, I'm gonna miss my bus. FOR THIS?
I need to get my priorities straight.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

OMG I can't beleive it!

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

Wulf Blitzer....YOU MUST SHUT UP NOW!!!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

uk newsreader: "there are jackson fan here from all over the world. many from great britain, interestingly enough."

YES THAT'S INTERESTING!!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

bbc woman says "audio feed imminent" then my live feed goes tits up :-/

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/06/09/jackson.homepage.main.1.gif

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

can we please have some proper news, the 10 o'clock news has been filled with rubbish. there is anynumber of interseting and important things going on in the world.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

It was 95 minutes ago that we received the news that we would receive the verdict...96...96 and a half...This is CNN, providing you with round-the-clock coverage...97.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

Michael must have turned into a pile of gold dust just like in the video for "Remember the Time".

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

FUCK!

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

*taps fingers*

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Jesus, let's land this goddamn plane already.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

the judge has the decision in his hand, apparently.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

there is anynumber of interseting and important things going on in the world.

Who invited you?

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

ed otm

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Bob Shapiro, what can you tell us?

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Did you hear that?!?!

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

I expect it's taking so long because he's collapsed with an emergency sore back.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Aye yai yai

This is worse than the 2000 election.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

The judge has a Right Hand Woman

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

"of jailed, he will have his hair cut to just an inch in corcoran, according to the rules, but like other inmates he will be allowed to wear make-up"

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

There was one buzz.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

apparently if he does to prison he has to get a crew-cut of under 1/2 inch in length. yowza!

xp!

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

"but false noses *are* make up! I love you all."

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

the verdict according to california's new diebold touch-screen jury is...

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

I think I just saw Elian Gonzales in a crowd shot.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:11 (twenty years ago)

TELL ME NOW GODDAMNIT

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

This is worse than the 2000 election.

that's our alex, prone to hyperbole.

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

We could be seeing highlight of England's 20-20 trouncing of Australia.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

cmon people i want to know before i go to bed & i'm tired!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

hey j.d., you going to the gang gang dance show tonight?

hmmm, where is it?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

all of the sudden i don't really care anymore! i want this trial to just go on forever

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

The Tragedie thread is going to amend an interesting new chapter, in any case.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

I wish I was down there selling sno-cones. I'd make a killing!

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

i wonder if there's still any chance of a hung jury?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

something is definitely about to happen!...

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

I'm flip flopping to a guilty prediction, I think.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

the mic is on

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

i'm surprised to realize i haven't heard anyone calling this the trial of the century!!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

here we go...

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

WORST CLIFFHANGER EVER

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

i wonder if there's still any chance of a hung jury?

Advance report has it the jury was unanimous on each count.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

Not guilty of conspiracy.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY AGAIN

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

in no cent

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY 3

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

not guilty of counts 1-3

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Dammit I have things to do today. Verdict please news reporters!

― You fondle my trigger then you blame my gun / Kate (papa november), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS! (projection)

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

fuck. Not guilty.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

gODDAMNIT

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

what a waste!

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

fuck

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY Y'ALL GOTS TA FEEL ME

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

LET'S KILL HIM ANYWAY

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

these people just don't know how to jury

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha! Take that, ex-employers!

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Shit!

OSAMA BIN LADEN CAPTURED!

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

awwwww....the website doesn't have anything yet! Not even ONE guilty?

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

THERE'S A WOMAN OUTSIDE RELEASING A DOVE FOR EACH NOT GUILTY VERDICT.

fucking hell.

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

The jury all gets record deals!

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

In the eyes of society, he needs to be in jail

― Maxwell von Bismarck (maxwell von bismarck), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

he's gonna go 10/10

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

society needs to be in jail

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Not guilty of giving out Jesus Juice.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

NOT GUILTY. NOT GUILTY. NOT GUILTY.

― Roz (Roz), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

THERE'S A WOMAN OUTSIDE RELEASING A DOVE FOR EACH NOT GUILTY VERDICT.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

Suprise suprise

― You fondle my trigger then you blame my gun / Kate (papa november), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

I swear I can hear him sniffling in the background.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

She's going to bite the head off of a dove for each guilty verdict right?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

I hope he pledges the rest of his life to finding the real Jesus Juicer.

― Huk-L, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

THERE'S A WOMAN OUTSIDE RELEASING A DOVE FOR EACH NOT GUILTY VERDICT

I wonder what she would have done with the doves if they'd found him guilty.

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

10/10

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

i was going to ask if these weird dove releasers have some place better to be but then i realized how many times i've reloaded this stupid thread. we're all idiots.

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

10 out of 10 ain't bad.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

Now for some proper news

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

well that was an anticlimax.

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

Not even the alcohol provision ones?
WTF

― Abby (abby mcdonald), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

http://www.obeythepurebreed.com/images/jesus_front_sm.gif

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

nope we're gong to get some comment now

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

I hope he starts a Micahel Jackson Fund For Kids That Be Molestedin'

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

ed what's a 20-20 trouncing?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

hmmm, where is it?

solar culture. only six bucks!

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

I thought it was exciting.

I am sad.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

the comments will go on for days, weeks even

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Ed, why do you hate celebrities?

― the D Double signal (nordicskilla), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Celebratory pea soup for everyone!

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Right, well, I'm off to watch Big Brother.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2005/images/06/13/jackson.homepage.main.2.gif

― Jimmy Mod Is Great At Getting Us Into Trouble (ModJ), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Smooth Criminal shoulda been played in the courtroom as the verdict was read. Also, Bad, Beat It, etc.

― Aramyr, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

the disappointment in the not-guilty verdicts on this thread.. very telling.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Obviously if you're rich and famous paedophilia is a-ok with everyone.

― You fondle my trigger then you blame my gun / Kate (papa november), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

*turns tv off*

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

Oh god, now we'll have Jackson reading a statement. Can't wait.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

REVIVE THE TRAGEDIE THREAD!

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

i hate celebrities!

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

...cigarette, anyone?

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Aaargh! On Radio 5 right now a 'friend of Michael' saying "I hope he doesn't change, I hope he continues loving children..."

― Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

I look on 'celebrities' as the same as anyone else. Peter Mandelson's views on the EU budget smokescreen are far more interesting.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

"if you have a shred of reasonable doubt, you cannot convict michael jackson" (bbc news 24)

crikey. what, ever? what if he's not involved? seems a bit general...

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

very telling of what, donut?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Great. Now I have to back to work.

― giboyeux (skowly), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

jail bashir now

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

donut otm

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Robert Shapiro on the verdict : I didn't think Michael Jackson would be singing "Beat It", but now he's going to be doing the moonwalk.

ahahahababdbajdaddfa

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

wow, i just dont know. is any of this good?

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

http://a5.cpimg.com/image/23/2A/6707235-9c88-02000154-.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Yr less cynical than me about bbc news "values" than i am, ed. I'd wager they'll have a reporter at the scene harping on about what it's like there long aftere everyone else has gone home.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

xpost to jaymc.. telling of how everyone was just wishing he'd be guilty... assuming each had no more evidence of the case than I did, or anyone else well outside of it, for that matter.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

the disappointment in the not-guilty verdicts on this thread.. very telling.

Actually, I'm rather glad because I thought from the get-go that he needs to dispose of himself in some spectacular acting out way. I'd rather he jump off a building or put a gun to his head as he becomes more and more irrelevant.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

Wedding DJs everywhere rejoice - "Billie Jean" saved from paedogeddon.

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:24 (twenty years ago)

the little green dots in that cnn graphic look like a tot

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

Madonna is becoming less and less relevant too. Why does MJ deserve to off himself in public anymore so than other acceleratingly irrelevant celebrities?

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

yeah jody i think i'll probably check it out. i'll see you there?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

crap.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

yeah jody i think i'll probably check it out. i'll see you there?

yeah, i'll most likely go.

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

It sounded like they had a pretty shitty case against him. Nutty mom, unbelievable kid, no physical evidence.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

"hmmm" is all I got to say abt this, anyway.

Off to bed, see you all tomorrow.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

plus ca change

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

telling of how everyone was just wishing he'd be guilty... assuming each had no more evidence of the case than I did, or anyone else well outside of it, for that matter.

Yes, OTM.

― L'Histoire d'Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

unfriggin believable

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

Pash, I'm more hopeful, although less so now that the NJ verdict is lead item on Newsnight.

Mark, 20-20 is a devalued version of cricket where first class teams play schoolboy matches with contrived rules (20 overs each side, time limits, odd no ball rules), nonetheless England racked up 179-8 and Australia were all out for 79 after less than 15 overs.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

i thought it wz the score!

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt http://www.geocities.com/emurphy23/mj.txt

― cha'mone, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

yeah I thought it was the score as well.

Will jackson's accusers get prosecuted?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

Since when are alleged victims prosecuted in a criminal court? I suppose he could persue a civil case.

― Miss Misery (thatgirl), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

im sure the reason Jacko gave no speech is because he is high as a fucking kite right now. hes been in and out of rehab since the early 90s.

that said, who knows if he did it or not, you know? i find the entire jackson family despicable, but i have no strong hunch either way with this case as to what actually happened, unlike most people i suspect. But i was somewhat sure he'd be guilty.

― JD from CDepot, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Contrast between celebrities and normal people: one of my co-workers was recently accused - by staff at a local photo-developing store - of having sex in the presence of a minor, after his stepdaughter took a film to be developed which had shots of him having sex on it. On Friday, him and his wife were both sentenced to one year in prison.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Contrast physical evidence vs no physical evidence

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Well it sounds like there was photographic evidence there.

― Miss Misery (thatgirl), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

There was no *physical* evidence that they committed the crime on the charge sheet, though; the child wasn't visible in the photos.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

caitlin's post does not say there was photographic evidence of the parents having sex in front of the child.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

(x-post don't mind me)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

yes i agree with caitlin that the less famous/wealthy should receive benefit of the doubt on par with celebrities. That is your point, right?

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

yes!

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

I guess it's not surprising to me that so many people assume that Michael Jackson is guilty of molesting some kid at some point, but it is suprising to me that anyone following this trial could really and truly believe that he had committed the crimes he was accused of here.

― Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

I suppose he could persue a civil case.

That's kind of what I meant, sorry.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

Donut rules this thread!

― Remy (x Jeremy), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

He does speak sense.

― Leon C. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Thirding. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:53 (twenty years ago)

sixthing or seventhing at this point. Put down the haterade yall

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 13 June 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

This is the first step towards normalizing pedophilia. MJ must be destroyed.

― mjfan, Monday, 13 June 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

Once they reach a certain age, he loses interest in little boys. Why is that?

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

Um yeah cmon....you all wanted him to be bound in chains and everything, and sure we know it's very likely he did some naughty things, but

a) the prosecution argued this case poorly w/ the first count / conspiracy thing
b) the extremely arrogant DA who was gloating from the first day that he's gonna have MJ arrested suffered from his own hubris which didnt help things and
c) the mother was a proven liar / basket-case / monster-of-a-mom who's changed her stories zillions of times and has a history of getting her kids to lie on the witness stand for the sake of exploiting the famous

...so it was the wrong family, the wrong case to prove him guilty. im glad the jury could see past the Freak Factor and just do their job, for the most part

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

also this was taking place in a relatively conservative white-bread part of the country

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

I guess it helps when you live in a city where a lesser-but-still-somewhat celebrity (*s**c Br*ck of M*d**t M****) has been suffering the "rape rock" accusation well after the very fuzzy resolution of that case... (which never went to court, from what I remember. Both were intoxicated, and no one was a witness.) I'm not an *s**c Br*ck apologist by any means (although he introduced himself to me once at a show and he was very friendly, but anyway), but does he deserve the "rape rock" accusations to this day? Maybe. Maybe not. I just hate the whole "I KNOW he did it. You can tell" vs. "I can't believe people would even THINK he did it" mentalities.

People just don't like fuzzy resolutions, period.. especially in celebrity cases. And.. well.. guess what? That happens a lot, people! Deal.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone think he's gonna stop having kids stay over now, even though it's completely innocent, but "doesn't look good?"

― nickn (nickn), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

"who knows if he did it or not" - well that's what courts are for, innit

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

jesse jackson gave him a talk on that, so im sure its all good now

besides his own kids are only 4-5 years until they reach his favorite age anyway

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

Does he get his porn back now?

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

"who knows if he did it or not" - well that's what courts are for, innit

no, courts are for deciding whether he can be proven guilty or not.

― metal detective (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

That said.. yes, people with more money tend to be better off in the legal system. I don't like that. But if there's a much better system in the world.. let me know.

*insert all OJ Simpson trail threads had ILX existed in 1994 to 1998 here*

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

"who knows if he did it or not" - well that's what courts are for, innit
no, courts are for deciding whether he can be proven guilty or not.

-- metal detective (theundergroundhom...), June 13th, 2005.

OTM

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

All of this soapbox time aside..

I don't care what MJ does now... he'll probably be playing golf with OJ or something for a while.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

and cmon ppl u know theres a big difference in this case and the OJ / Blake cases...namely, ahem, the COMPLETELY CREDIBILITY-LACKING wack-as-hell mom.

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

sorry Jody and Vichitravirya, i don't see the distinction.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

and yet people were still gleefully wanting MJ to fry...

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

(xpost to vic)

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

I thought they'd get him on one of the small ones.

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

SOW HATS THE VERDICIT? IS HE GUILTY OR NONGUULLTY???

― Amon (eman), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

YAY MJ IS INNOCENT! MEANWHILE 45+ MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY (INCLUDING YOURS TRULY) DON'T HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE!!!!! AMERICAN CASUALTIES IN IRAQ ARE NOW ABOVE 1700!!!!!

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

tut tut

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

stence and ed both otm, overall.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

reasonable doubt. tracer dude. when the mom + kid went to two different attorneys BEFORE EVEN APPROACHING THE POLICE yes i'd say thats reasonable doubt

again im not saying the MJ didnt touch wittle boys, just that this prosecution couldnt prove that he touched THIS little boy when their credibility has been shot to hell.

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

tracer, the difference is innocent people get declared guilty in courts all of the time. in illinois, 13 people convicted of murder and sentenced to the death penalty by a court of law were later set free thanks to dna testing and evidence of prosecutorial misconduct. if you're arguing that the american justice system is one that actually determines whether events happen and not on a more subjective innocent/guilty determination, then there's a bridge not too far away from our neighborhood i'd like to sell to you.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

i mean c'mon tracer, you're a white guy living in america. how could you POSSIBLY think that the american system of justice actually determines fact? oh yeah, because you're the recipient of its biases, just like me. i mean, shit how many illegal drugs have we illegally bought and ingested, and we're never going to jail, much less in front of a judge, right?

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

...which is not to say that i don't accept this jury's verdict. honestly i don't give a fuck whether mj did anything or not. i don't care. his last good fucking record is thriller.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

to which I'll earnestly ask.. is there a much better system in place in the world? One that is immune to the wealth or celebrity or race of the parties in a case, for example?

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

the jurors + alternates are on CNN / FOX now - all crackas except for four latino/AZN

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

i'm all for a renewal of the napoleonic code, donut. GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

fuck that it's all about salem. that bitch is a witch until she's dead.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

i'd like to point out i got no joy from that

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

NEVER MIND ALL THIS WHAT IS HIS COMEBACK ALBUM GOING TO BE NAMED!?

"Return to the Neverland Chambers: The Dirty Version"

― Hari A$hur$t (Toaster), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

so you don't know of one then.

If you don't, that's fine! It's just a sad state of affairs in the world if the best system the world has to offer is a jury picked amongst those who generally do it because they HAVE to and don't want to.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

"she turned me into a newt! ... i got better."

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

fuck donut i read this really great quote about the use of the american justice system over the weekend (by like mencken or somebody like that) but can't remember what it was or where i read it. fuck fuck fuck!

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

Comeback Albm: STILL BAD

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

http://www.myfonts.com/images/family/coolfonts/newt-juice.gif

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

i think juice newton has a better chance at a "comeback."

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.homestead.com/deeopus/files/sweestestJuiceNewton.jpg

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

prosecution's job to find the "right family" to back up a case they knew sooner than most was weak (ie witnesses w/terrible credibility) from the get-go: "right family" never materialised = no such family to be found?

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

comeback album: FILLER
(lets be real)

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

thats a question for the gung-ho DA, no?

― Vichitravirya XI, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

God, when i had that noise show on kuci in 1993 or so(?), a similar MJ case/scandal occurred... i clearly remembered the two maids in question tell the press "Eeez gay. Eeez confehrmed." That was also when MJ did the press release where he went on about how the police "touched his penis... his buttocks", etc.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

anyway, i dedicated a noise shoe episode to that scandal, so I'll have to dig the tape out. (Negativland sampled that on Dispepsi though...)

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

"right family" never materialised = right family signed settlements

in which case, i'm fine with him being not guilty.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

a noise show too!

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

tonight we have a rilly good noize shoe.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

that was when wolf eyes were on ed sullivan. they rocked (but were filmed only below the waist).

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

man some of the people who post here are such fuckwits

― enonymous, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

Mark S OTM

― Penelope_111 (Penelope_111), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

Do Dr. Scholl's make good woofers?

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

yes: the non-emergence of back-up families is the dog that didn't bark, and i think the evidence that broke this case

other victims - if they exist - had every reason to come forward and no reason not to: that they didn't...

well i said before - one of the few moments shakey and me fully agreed abt this whole thing - that WHATEVER the outcome of the trial, everyone wd go on believing what they believed before

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

I cling to my admittedly very naive belief that in response to the verdict MJ will hit the recording studio and very quickly record a totally kick-ass album that will be ready for release by September and will shock the whole world with its ass-kickingness

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

people who like witchhunts never leaving that mentality even when courts of law contradict shocker.

i guess I just have to get big enough clogs, buy enough padding, and a transmitter, and I could make a really classy noise shoe.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

yeah i agree, mark. i was being a bit snarky since settlements don't imply guilt.

xpost - banana, only if r. kelly is available to collaborate.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

That could be Jackson's new thing... he can make music FROM his shoes! Probably not noise shoes though.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

I don't think even R. Kelly would urinate on MJ at this point.

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

OTM. Is there something in the ILX water that makes people antsy if they don't vocally declare themselves to be part of an irrational lynch mob?

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

"WHATEVER the outcome of the trial, everyone wd go on believing what they believed before"

a conclusion borne out by the reactions on this very thread, I might add.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I do find the general acceptance of an "oh you just know he's guilty!" mentality disturbing, especially here - one expects that sort of thing from talk-news pundits & the general public, but expects better from people known to be thoughtful smart folks. I mean, look: Michael Jackson's fucked up, of course he is. It's also the case that his fucked-uppedness makes him an easy target. Where there's smoke there's fire? Sure maybe; certainly, if one sees smoke several times from the same place but never locates fire, one might conclude that in this case the source of the smoke is something other than fire.

Also, you totally know that R Kelly would already be in the studio by now if this were his case, which is why Kelly is the superior artist: he is in love with his muse & its thirst for the public

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

other victims - if they exist - had every reason to come forward and no reason not to: that they didn't...

no reason other than the shame & trauma of being sexually molested, the pressure of testimony and cross-examination, the publicity circus etc. seems obvious that his accusers could be hustling MJ for money, the mother lying and conniving and the child contradiciting himself, the presecution zealous and overreaching yet nevertheless SOME molestation still occurred. as JBR put it above "courts are for deciding whether people are proven guilty" (my italics)

prediction: MJ will get religion and re-emerge as a musical minister for children, the reverend peter pan. or he will slowly fade into decadent obscurity, indulging his bent in Bangkok alongside Gary Glitter.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

xpost - thirst is a really bad choice of words.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

one expects that sort of thing from talk-news pundits & the general public, but expects better from people known to be thoughtful smart folks.

wha?!?

― ???, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

smart as opposed to snarky and inconsistently anonymous, I guess

― donut e-goo (donut), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:08 (twenty years ago)

I like how each side of this debate ("he's a pedo!"/"he's just weird! leave him alone!") take turns trying to claim the moral high ground.

I frame the moral weight of the issue this way: which is worse, the destruction of an innocent rich man's life, or the the destruction of numerous children's sexuality/psyches? I say the latter is worse, and insofar as Michael Jackson talks, acts, lives, and behaves like many convicted pedophiles I err on the side of his being guilty. I have no legal power to enforce this pronouncement, and what's more, don't even think I *should* have that power - so my thoughts on the matter are by and large purely abstract. I like to think that this does not make me any less of one of the "thoughtful, smart folks" on ILM, nor does it make me part of some bloodthirsty mob.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:11 (twenty years ago)

there is no moral high ground. this is america.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)

touche.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

One of the great myths of our time is that you can't legislate the moral high ground.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

Shakey OTM!

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)

what I mean: I'd expect ilx to not get all "no matter what the dumb ol' jury (people who actually were at the trial and are better informed about all this than any of us) concludes based on a preponderance of the evidence, we know he's guilty! I mean it's obvious, we all watched the same BBC documentary and have been following the news for years, right? Obviously the jury was starstruck & is stupid!" etc. ILX has always struck me as the smart kids, and the "no matter what a jury said, we know the truth" position strikes me as the moronic position.

Moreover, ilx is full of people who've spent loads of time thinking about pop music. The case of Michael Jackson is so ripe with ambiguous, odd lessons about success & American culture: exactly such lessons as aren't exactly news to pop music obsessives, or shouldn't be, anyhow.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

Does anyone think he's gonna stop having kids stay over now, even though it's completely innocent, but "doesn't look good?"

Hell no. Whether the guy is a molester or not, he obviously doesn't have a lick of common sense.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

THERE'S A WOMAN OUTSIDE RELEASING A DOVE FOR EACH NOT GUILTY VERDICT.

It would have been awesome if she had bit the head off of one dove per guilty verdict!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

"based on a preponderance of the evidence, we know he's guilty! I mean it's obvious, we all watched the same BBC documentary and have been following the news for years, right? Obviously the jury was starstruck & is stupid!"

I don't think anybody here's actually said this or drawn conclusions that way. Many that think he's a pedophile, myself included, have noted that the particular case they were prosecuting here was weak and that he probably wasn't guilty of these particular acts that he was accused of.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

as I said several months ago on some other thread, the prosecution being a bunch of conmen and liars and Michael Jackson being a pedophile are not mutually exclusive.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

...and as to MJ's acting like a pedophile: well, yes, twenty years of describing a guy in those terms tends to make him look that way. Obviously Shakey's right: we have to err on the side of children who might be in peril, so it's a good thing he was brought to trial. But the tendency to decry jurors, judges, et al as stupid when they don't agree with one's (less informed, gathered-from-media-sources-and-supposition) take is depressing.

nb: no, I'm not saying "every jury verdict rules, deal with it!" just: doesn't a jury verdict give one immediate pause, and a chance to examine how one came to one's conclusions about the case? Having worked with molested children & perps many, many times in a therapeutic setting, I have no idea what you're talking about when you say MJ "behaves like one." Most perps keep a real low profile and do their best to appear as normal as possible; the secretive eccentric is a shitty beard to wear if you've got dirty work to do.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

"which is worse, the destruction of an innocent rich man's life, or the the destruction of numerous children's sexuality/psyches"

well the former has demonstrably occurred

as for the second, dude you should alert the media, they would be very interested in these numerous children's tales

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:38 (twenty years ago)

If MJ acts like one paedophiles must be fucking easy to spot

― Andrewlaptop (Livvie), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

"as to MJ's acting like a pedophile: well, yes, twenty years of describing a guy in those terms tends to make him look that way."

I went *way* into this on another thread, but I'm talking about things that are a little more academic than his media portrayal. Shunning adult company for the company of children, the pattern of an initial interest in a child followed by abandonment as they grow older, inability to distinguish childrens' wants/needs from adults' wants/needs, maintaining an environment exclusively designed to attract children, engineering situations to remove children from parents'/guardians care or oversight, inability to discern any moral impropriety involving children (either on their part or on the part of himself), fixation on an idealized youth, etc. Do even a little bit of reading on the psychological make-up and trademark behaviors of pedophiles and you come across these things. Oddly, read up on the life of Michael Jackson and you come across these things as well.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

i think it's reasonable to infer from the failure to strengthen the case that it couldn't actually be strengthened, though this isn't cast-iron obviously

i take lovebug's point abt reasons not to want to take the stand, but by "come forward" i meant "come forward and speak to the DA" really: at which point (once again) it's his job to persuade them to stand

i'm very wary of this "profile"-type stuff: there's a classic recent british case of a v.weird and highly unsavory and plausible loner who "acted, lived, and behaved" like the kind of person experts were convinced WOULD commit a particularly nasty murder they were investigating (ie all the "psychological evdience" pointed to him), and the police loved him for it and attempted an elaborate entrapment designed by one of the uk's top "psychological profilers"

anyway it turns out now very likely the the actual murderer was not only overlooked, but went on to commit a fairly similar murder not long after - while the original suspect, a creepy and unlikeable man for sure, was hounded for years for something he didn't do (the case was thrown out bcz of the entrapment, so he wasn't "properly cleared")

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

(my own uninformed, gathered-from-media-sources-and-suppostion take: MJ was raised in an abusive, bizarre household under very unusual conditions. His sexuality is doubtless completely messed up; when the subject arises in interviews, he doesn't even know how to say "that's private" and spins incredible yarns about artificial insemination, etc. To say nothing of his obvious contempt for his own face. It's obvious that he really enjoys being around young men, and all behavior has meaning: there's certainly a possibility that he gets a sexual thrill out of their company. That he talks about boobs & jacking off with them, as has been alleged, seems probable; that Jehovah's-Witnesses, reportedly-abusive, famous-by-the-age-of-five, living-on-tour-and-in-the-studio childhood he had probably left him wondering what it was like to have somebody to talk to about his sexual urges & so on. His boundaries are obviously bizarre (witness the baby-dangling incident).

Would this profile produce a potential perp? Sure; might the perping be limited to talking inappropriately with the young men whose company gives him a thrill? Absolutely. There are as many or more fucked-up people who take care of their issues without harming anybody as there are acting-out perps. I suspect that the celebrities who've declined to join in piling-in on him know the sad truth: that MJ's a creepy guy who wants to ask young men about their sex drives & habits, because his own sex drive is broken. And that's sad, and it's also sad that the only broken sex drive we can imagine is one in which the Evil Dude Went Nuts!! etc.

But again, I'm 100% for prosecuting anybody accused of molestation, I don't think MJ's in any way "persecuted.")

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

(well again, I thought I'd made it clear that I didn't think any of my armchair psychologizing was grounds for legal action by any means, nor should it be. I'm just explaining why I've drawn the conclusion I have. I do not think a legal case could or should be built around my amateur diagnosis.)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

i'm not sure how mj's life has been "destroyed" by anybody except his own father.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

Do even a little bit of reading on the psychological make-up and trademark behaviors of pedophiles and you come across these things.

I've done more than a little bit of reading, Mo; read my preceding post: I worked in the field for ten-plus fucking years. I'm not shooting from the hip here.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

the "profiler" is always on brit TV explaining why "it's obvious" that such-and-such a (convicted) serial killer is a killer, by the way they talk and stuff

his name is paul br!tton: he is a complete twat

i realise that his very specific annoying uselessness and complete lack of insight does not in fact mean that all psychological evidence is worthless: one should never generalise

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 June 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

YOO HOO HOO, STILL BETTER THAN YOU

― TEH GHOST OF CINNIBITCH, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

"which is worse, the destruction of an innocent rich man's life, or the the destruction of numerous children's sexuality/psyches"
well the former has demonstrably occurred
as for the second, dude you should alert the media, they would be very interested in these numerous children's tales

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhan...), June 13th, 2005.

i think my point is being borne out

― ???, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

(sorry bn, I didn't mean to imply that you weren't up on the subject, just that those things are commonplace in the literature - bad wording on my part)

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:53 (twenty years ago)

"Most perps keep a real low profile and do their best to appear as normal as possible;"

absolutely - however, obviously this isn't possible for Jackson, and his concept of what constitutes a "low profile" is permanently damaged (ie, "no one will know it's me and my kids if I wear a surgical mask and drape them in black veils!")

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 13 June 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

well sure I can see that, no doubt & a good point - I'm not saying "he's no way guilty of these things" but that there are many, many scenarios that're as/more probable; our culture doesn't leave us room to describe complex human beings even as it creates painfully complex neuroses like those plainly in evidence in the case of MJ.

― Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Monday, 13 June 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2005270362,00.jpg

― Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 07:31 (twenty years ago)

"free two-pound bet!" ?

some days i feel like they went and changed the meanings of ALL WORDS while i wz asleep

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 07:35 (twenty years ago)

Didn't you get the memo, Mark?

― Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 07:55 (twenty years ago)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/top.jackson.wed.ap.jpg

http://www.lunacynet.com/league/images/s1_pauline.jpg

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 10:39 (twenty years ago)

"Jury retrospective" :

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/14/jackson.trial/index.html

― StanM, Tuesday, 14 June 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

OMG he's Pauline!!!

― JTS, Tuesday, 14 June 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah i messed up there, he is not demonstrably innocent of all charges with all theoretical boys, ever, which would require infinite trials over infinite time. but he is innocent of this one. recall that sneddon has been after him for a decade or more and has yet to prove one shred of illegal behavior.

i agree with people who say the US justice system, like all justice systems, is not from infallible. especially if you got the loot. there's something complicated lurking here, something very complicated. it's the can of worms the supreme court is afraid of opening if they outlaw capital punishment on the grounds that there is always a certain percentage of people who are wrongly convicted: it calls into question the very ontology of the courts.

however, i think we owe more generosity towards' the court's opinion when it finds a defendant "not guilty" than we do when the court is meting out punishments, at least in the case of individual people-persons. because one is irrevocable - i.e. 20 years in prison - while the other is not.

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

I think I'm fairly conviced that he was not, in fact, guilty. But to paraphrase an old Chappelle sketch, I wouldn't let my children anywhere near him, and I doubt his defenders on this thread would either.

― Sym Sym (sym), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

Did anyone else see the quote from one of the jurors that said that, yes, he thought MJ was probably a molester, but that he just wasn't guilty of the specific charges brought against him?

From Billboard.com:

Jurors may have acquitted Jackson of all charges of molesting a 13-year-old cancer survivor, but not all of them were convinced the King of Pop had never molested a child.

"He's just not guilty of the crimes he's been charged with," said Ray Hultman, who told the Associated Press he was one of three people on the 12-person panel who voted to acquit only after the other nine persuaded them there was reasonable doubt about the entertainer's guilt in this particular case.

Prosecutors presented testimony about Jackson's allegedly improper relationships with several boys in the early 1990s, including the son of a maid who testified that Jackson molested him during tickling session between 1987 and 1990. Another, Brett Barnes, took the stand to deny that he was molested during sleepovers at Neverland.

But Hultman said he believed it was likely that both boys had been molested. He said he voted to acquit Jackson in the current case because he had doubts about his current accuser's credibility. "That's not to say he's an innocent man," Hultman, 62, said of Jackson.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Sym Sym, you've succinctly stated the position of every "defender" on this thread as if you're accusing us of being hypocritical.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

Mesereau ~~aka Ned Raggett 2099~~ stated that MJ would be changing his behaviour and will be foregoing boys in the bed from here on out.

I'm guessing MJ's "thinking tree" will be coming in reeeaaall handy over the next few years

― Negativa, True Believer (Sheryl Crow in a Britney costume) (Barima), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

http://zumamusic.com/db2/00189/zumamusic.com/_uimages/BillyJoelAnInnocentMan7.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 20:21 (twenty years ago)

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