Steven Spielberg's LINCOLN

xpost they just haven't given him a chance.

But it ain't gonna happen on our watch, as God is on our side! God Bless America!

DANIEL DAY LEWIS
THE GUY WHO PLAYED JETHRO IN THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES MOVIE
STRONGO HULKINGTON

BAD PRESIDENT

THE WHEELS ON THE BUS

So you're saying Abe WASN'T tall and well-hung?

cf Charlize T uglying up for Aileen Wuornos

1. Deep Meaningful World War II Epics
2. Deep Meaningful US 19th Century History Epics
3. Sci-Fi Things With Tom Cruise
4. 'Wacky' Things With Tom Hanks

I think a Jon Williams score might be more appropriate!

Maybe he'll stick in some "raptors" and Indy Jones to redeem himself.

HEAVY FLOW

...scored by New Kingdom?

You evil wonderful man.

Abraham Lincoln and Jack the Ripper: One and the Same?

also would be cool if it foregrounded Lincoln's depression....

Nope. See... 9/11 movies: Three-Way Tie For Last

Also, Schrader & Scorsese admit a lot of it was made up by them.

What about Lincoln mythology movies? John Ford's starring Henry Fonda.

http://www.deadline.com/2010/11/daniel-day-lewis-to-star-in-lincoln-for-director-steven-spielberg-and-dreamworks/

Los Angeles, CA (November 19, 2010) – Two-time Academy Award winner Daniel Day-Lewis will star as the 16th President of the United States in DreamWorks Studios’ Lincoln to be directed by Steven Spielberg. The announcement was made today by Spielberg and Stacey Snider, Co-Chairman and CEO of DreamWorks Studios.

can't believe the guy from hawaii 5-o remake is gonna play LINCOLN

http://media.al.com/sports_impact/photo/4926110665-fa1ae6afb8jpg-845035ddd32f7f33_large.jpg

really hope it starts modern-day with this cloud pic of lincoln on a personal watercraft and then a classy dissolve back to the 1800s

should spend whole movie flying around on his throne like the one he's got at the Lincoln Memorial

also he should talk with a Jersey accent

that photo is awesome~

i have a competition in me, mary. i don't want the south to succeed.

if i say im a commander in chief, you will agree

I PROCLAIM YOUR EMANICPATION! I PROCLAIM IT UP!

He gets shot, turns around, rips Booth's head off...

soundtrack by the proclaimers??

azizansari Just spoke w/my agent, looking VERY likely that I'll get the role of Abe Lincoln in Spielberg's LINCOLN. Fingers crossed!
about 1 hour ago via web

azizansari UPDATE: FUCKKKKK!!!! DANIEL DAY LEWIS!!?!!? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? #DidntGethePartofAbeLincolninSpielbergsLincoln
about 1 hour ago via web

who's right for Mary Todd?

wrong kind of bananas for Courtney Love

Meryl Streep as William Seward.

brendan gleeson as mary todd

John Malkovich as John Wilkes Booth

I just really, really hope Morgan Freeman doesn't play Freddy Douglass

Of course he will. Or Oprah.

this is based on Doris Kearns Goodwin, correct? so he'll steal a few shots from John Ford.

If Douglass is in it, Jeffrey Wright seems obvious. (F.D. was in his early 40s when the war started, not very Freemanesque.)

Two actors needed to play Gideon Welles, one of whom just for the mutton chops:

http://www.cedarhillcemetery.org/Website%20monuments%20and%20portraits/WELLES.jpg

If Douglass is in it, Jeffrey Wright seems obvious. (F.D. was in his early 40s when the war started, not very Freemanesque.

they'll just CGI-in a young Freeman

also, you know, Tony Kushner

The Better Angels in America of Our Nature

so Morbz how excited for this are you

Not particularly. I don't get excited about remote things.

Seven score and 7 years ago today

http://www.truthaboutnursing.org/images/films/2002-08/angels_in_america/angels_288.gif

(l-r) Lincoln, Douglass

Tommy Lee Jones as Jefferson Davis

Zach Galifiniakis as Ulysses S. Grant

Jason Robards as Robert E. Lee …. wait what do you mean he's dead?

Shia LeDouche as Young Lincoln

should have been adam scott

gree hee hee

reports of Sally Field as Mary

Nice. Haven't seen her go full Sybil in awhile.

first trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL68NyCSi8o

brendan gleeson as mary todd

― omar little, Friday, November 19, 2010

For Mary Lincoln, the death of her son Thomas (Tad), in July 1871, added on top of the death of two of her other sons and her husband, led to an overpowering sense of grief augmented by her previous history of mental instability.[26] Mrs. Lincoln's sole surviving son, Robert Lincoln, a rising young Chicago lawyer, was alarmed as his mother's behavior became increasingly erratic. In March 1875, during a visit to Jacksonville, Florida, Mary Lincoln became unshakably convinced that Robert was deathly ill. She traveled to Chicago to find him in fine health. On her arrival, she told her son that someone had tried to poison her on the train and that a "wandering Jew" had taken her pocketbook but would return it later.

Tony Kushner writing Mary's visions has potential

And that wandering Jew's name was … Erik Onassis.

http://www.iwise.com/authorIcons/537/Paul%20Harvey_128x128.png

this dude was a harbinger of doom:

Robert Lincoln was coincidentally either present or nearby when three presidential assassinations occurred.[7]

Lincoln was invited to accompany his parents to the Ford's Theatre the night his father was shot by John Wilkes Booth on April 14, 1865. Citing fatigue from riding in a covered wagon for an extended period of time, he declined, and remained behind at the White House, where he immediately went to bed. He was informed of his father's being shot just before midnight. He was at his father's bedside when he died.

At President James A. Garfield's invitation, Lincoln was at the Sixth Street Train Station in Washington, D.C., where the President was shot by Charles J. Guiteau on July 2, 1881, and was an eyewitness to the event. Lincoln was serving as Garfield's Secretary of War at the time.

At President William McKinley's invitation, Lincoln was at the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo, New York, where the President was shot by Leon F. Czolgosz on September 6, 1901, though he was not an eyewitness to the event.

Lincoln himself recognized the frequency of these coincidences. He is said to have refused a later presidential invitation with the comment "No, I'm not going, and they'd better not ask me, because there is a certain fatality about presidential functions when I am present."

which kennedy was present at these as well, is the question

Citing fatigue from riding in a covered wagon for an extended period of time

i've skipped out on some lame events before but this is weak

There's some weird story about Robert Lincoln saving the life of John Wilkes Booth's brother from getting crushed by a train.

Some info on that via snopes (answer: true):

http://message.snopes.com/showpost.php?s=ce5990d7169c6ebe13be36f7e77b9246&p=152493&postcount=13

And here he is on the right with two presidents.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c3/Taft-Harding-Lincoln.jpg

And of course, Warren Harding would die in office the next year, thank you.

xpost -- Though it's the reverse, Booth saved Lincoln there.

any pix of him w/a young LBJ, asking him to pass along the legacy?

Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Robert Lincoln
Tommy Lee Jones as Thaddeus Stevens

Not bad!

i.e. TLJ can play this sententious windbag in his sleep.

http://www.deadline.com/2011/07/walton-goggins-joins-cast-of-lincoln/

I guess someone was making friends on the Cowboys and Aliens set. Good news for him, the interview posted on the Justified thread confirmed that he is awesome.

about a million times more excited for this then Tintin and War Horse combined

i have a very specific set of emancipation skills... Emancipation skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let the slaves go now, that'll be the end of it

Did we ever post this?

David Straithairn as Seward. Not, uh, my first choice.

Good Night and Holy Shit That's a Lot of Ice

phaps mod could change title to STEVEN SPIELBERG'S LINCOLN

sure to be less bloody than JFK's Lincoln.

Waiting for his inevitable sequel about our 38th president, STEVEN SPIELBERG'S FORD. (Thanks, you're a lovely audience etc.)

November 9

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/lincoln-movie-release-date-november-9-2012-steven-spielberg-disney/

Liam Neeson should do Takoln.

http://i.imgur.com/PDi6W.jpg

Was just coming to post that.

psyched

There are dinosaurs in this, right?

In front of the camera, that is?

Yes, Hal Holbrook plays Francis Preston Blair.

would you like to go to the theatre tonight with Mrs Lincoln? xp

btw I had no idea Abe's deathbed was in the Chicago History Museum when I went last month.

I can't look at that image without getting the creepy Twin Peaks chills

good thing they didn't wrap the Stars & Stripes around him like in Gangs of New York

btw I had no idea Abe's deathbed was in the Chicago History Museum when I went last month.

Yeah, on the second floor, with all the, um, Lincoln stuff. How did you miss it? Spend all your time lying in the giant hot dog bun covering yourself with condiment pillows?

I was just at the Henry Ford Museum last weekend so I had to go back and take another look at Lincoln's chair from the Ford Theatre. It has disturbed me since the first time I saw it back in grade school.

I didn't miss it, JiC; I mean I came upon it without expecting to. Since he, y'know, died in D.C.

Admittedly I was happier about seeing Gabby Hartnett's 1938 homer-in-the-gloamin' bat and ball.

I am excited for this

I didn't miss it, JiC; I mean I came upon it without expecting to. Since he, y'know, died in D.C.

Yeah, and he was born and raised in Kentucky. But this is the Land of Lincoln, respect!!!!

Is the stretcher JFK died on in Boston? It's not a no-brainer that they would have carted the bed to Chicago.

kudos

"Mommy, why does the RFK Museum have a kitchen set up right before the gift shop?"

oh no

The Big Exit (through the gift shop)

Sirhan's Sirhouvenirs!

presidents are dumb

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/2012/08/lincoln_daniel_day_lewis.jpg

damn, that's uncanny.

I heard that DDL spent several months as president, oversaw the Civil War and ultimately got shot in preparation for the role.

BTW, anyone else been to the Lincoln birthplace in Kentucky? It's actually a quite beautiful site and impressive monument.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/abraham-lincoln-birthplace-national-historic-site-1.jpg

Looks nothing like a log cabin.

heating that place must've been a nightmare

Cabin is inside, actually.

cautiously optimistic about this movie!

mostly scared of this movie

i understand day lewis really brings the lols when he says to sherman "we're gonna need a bigger country!"

Trailer for the Trailer

Plus a GOOGLE HANGOUT with Spielberg and JGL.

that was the best trailer for a trailer i have ever watched

Be awesome if the entire movie were behind the ear POV shots from Lincoln's perspective.

That last scene would be something else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSAbAuLhqs

nice

He absolutely nails Lincoln's voice.

Yeah that's really something

Just as I remember it.

Actually, I couldn't make it through the smug trailer, to be honest. Felt less Spielberg and more HBO movie. And even a la Spielberg, I just kept thinking of the portentous, ultra-smug "Amistad."

you guys have heard Lincoln speak?

He spoke at our high school graduation.

Wait, are we talking about the same Lincoln?

raymond massey -- who played the big L in 'abe lincoln in illinois' -- was told by robert todd lincoln that his voice sounded almost exactly like his dad's.

like a Canadian?

Amistad might be S.S.'s best film of the '90s, so smug you.

I dunno, I'll always imagine Lincoln having more of the voice that he did in Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure

"Amistad" certainly had the most light streaming through the window.

every historian and Gore Vidal said Lincoln had a high-pitched whinny so.

David Straithairn as Seward!

it's kinda like how the first time i heard david beckham speak and he sounded like an agitated newsreel VO reporting on the blitz of london.

pg-13 i reckon?

LOU
What about the mob, Dave? How do
they figure in this?

FERRIE
They're Agency, too. Don't you get
it? CIA and Mafia together. Trying
to whack out the Beard. Mutual
interests. They been doing it for
years. There's more to this than
you dream. FBI fucking hates the
CIA. Navy Intelligence got something
to do with it too. Check out "Alan
Pope" in Miami. Jack Youngblood.
Bill Harvey. Colonel Roselli. The
shooter, I hear, was a Dallas cop -
the bagman at Ruby's club. I heard
he shot his own partner. Got that?
Check out the rich fucks in Dallas.
H.L. Hunt. He's dirty. That's all
I know. But the Agency always runs
the show. Check out something called
"Mongoose" Operation Mongoose.
Government, Pentagon stuff, they're
in charge, but who the fuck pulls
whose chain who the fuck knows, fun
'n' games man - check out Southeast
Asia - that's the next big number -
the heroin trail. "Oh, what a deadly
web we weave when we practice to
deceive."

Yeah I think DDL is going for historical accuracy--not sure that makes it any less odd to actually hear it!

He kinda sounds like the Bad Lip Synch guy.

damn, looks tight

its cool how the trailer was built around our anticipation of hearing DDL's lincolnvoice... everybody else is talkin and you're like, c'mon, get to it already

i like how his voice is a little unexpectedly clear tbh, i was thinking it might be like the pepperidge farm dude.

lol

peperidge farm remembers owning slaves

this movie is like catnip to me

otm

Amistad might be S.S.'s best film of the '90s, so smug you.

― kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Thursday, September 13, 2012 8:36 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

cmon, schindly's was better

did i see rip torn and the boyfriend from girls in that trailer?

yeah adam driver

Hal Holbrook!

could not BE more amped for this

if u dont see this opening day you are literally a fucking terrorist

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Mlr5jvUNURA/TsW6uD1JYYI/AAAAAAAAAP4/TWurrBaIXa8/s1600/Lincoln+Lenin.jpg

Amistad was not even Djimon Hounsou's best movie of the 90s.

i got through exactly 1 min 20 seconds of that trailer. this movie is going to be worse than war horse.

if djimon honsou played lincoln you might be able to drag me to the theater.

also this just seems like the most redundant movie ever.

yes, every line of dialogue in the trailer seems like self-serving patriotic mush, a travesty of history and politics, never mind 'good cinema' - the kind of guff that would have morbs throwing his hands up in horror if michelle obama had spoken them. def makes me get all cahiers/young mr lincoln.

really, WF? Do you know who Tony Kushner is? Many things, possibly including a patriot, but not a pimp.

i know a little bit abt tony kushner - angels in america - tho' i'm not that familiar w/ his work. do we know how much 'creative freedom' screenwriters for spielberg generally enjoy?

judging by how much identifiable TK was in Munich, a fair amount. And he's got lone credit on this one.

but maybe you just hate the Second Inaugural Address.

hate the idea more that history is made by a few great white men doing great things

I wish Kushner had adapted the Vidal novel.

Trailer doesn't do much for me, but neither did the trailer for Munich. This should be good.

also this just seems like the most redundant movie ever.

This movie will reveal the real Lincoln.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_LqNEzuPH9qIUwggEOzsrWQ6pFdbwKivy__S9Elb1kye5mPcF

http://www.figarospeech.com/storage/baberaham.jpg

The trailer is pretty lame but it's just portentous dialogue strung together. Don't think you can really infer much about the movie from it (to state the obvious).

Flash: trailers are commercials.

hate the idea more that history is made by a few great white men doing great things

Funny thing is they were pretty much running stuff in 19th-century USA, much as the disempowered people are part of history too. (And again since you know fuck-all about Kushner, that attitude is 180 deg away from his inclinations.)

crazy that a movie about lincoln would feature a bunch of old white guys talking in rooms!

xposting I dunno, I'm a fan of Spielberg, but the trailer plus his name plus the general capital P Prestige of the movie makes me feel I can infer a lot from the trailer. The only question is how long the battle scenes will be, and how much portent and sentimentality the John Williams score will attach to a story and speeches we're all pretty familiar with. Not a lot of mystery to the Lincoln tale, alas, other than whether his assassination will be depicted in poetic silence while a mournful aria seeps out from the speakers in ironic contrast to the piffle of a play being watched.

BTW, watching "Empire of the Sun." What a great movie! Amazing that something this well put together can be considered an underdog minor film in 'Berg's catalog.

x-post: yeah i can agree with that. it's not promising. but who knows, there's often a few interesting wrinkles in spielberg movies (for my money anyway).

my bad morbs, i agree it's bad form to slag off a film one hasn't seen yet

I actually saw Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter and it was probably the most torturous cinema experience of my life. I expect this will be better than that at least

At least it told the truth!

There was a tattooed hipster dude working behind the butcher counter of Whole Foods a few weeks back. He had a Lincoln-style beard, wore a tall stovepipe hat, and his body language announced that he knew quite well how silly he looked and how much he regretted going full-on Abe.

other than whether his assassination will be depicted in poetic silence while a mournful aria seeps out from the speakers in ironic contrast to the piffle of a play being watched.

Can't wait for the YouTube mash-up of John Wilkes Booth creeping through the theater cut with sweaty Eric Bana fucking his balls off.

the main guy did look uncannily like Liam Neeson though. They should use him in any Neeson movie that requires a flashback from now on (Christopher Nolan missed a trick)

my bad morbs, i agree it's bad form to slag off a film one hasn't seen yet

― Ward Fowler, Friday, September 14, 2012 11:58 AM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hahahahaha a++++

Empire of the Sun is likely one of his 3 greatest films, maybe you shouldn't listen to "the cw" that automatically dismisses what flops at the box office.

ie, it's an "underdog" cuz it undergrossed the Jurassic Park piffle

Huh, what are you talking about, doofus? I saw the movie when it was in theaters, seen in plenty of times since, have read the Ballard book, etc. Maybe you should not assume what I have or have not dismissed, especially because you're one of the most dismissive dudes on this board.

I don't even know what the fucking movie grossed. Maybe you shouldn't pay attention to numbers.

Amazing that something this well put together can be considered an underdog minor film in 'Berg's catalog

I guess what I'm asking is 'who considers it minor'?

and if you don't, why care who does?

I guess what I'm asking is 'who considers it minor'?

The people who gauge films by box office and Oscars? And I don't care what they think any more than I care what you think.

I wish Kushner had adapted the Vidal novel.

― a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 14, 2012 5:38 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

christ if everyone gets this heated over a trailer, this movie's gonna be a treat

then your amazement at their dismissal baffles me. xxp

a story and speeches we're all pretty familiar with.

Are we? Haven't read the DKG book, and probably little about the Cabinet politics of his administration since I left college.

what a surprise, VG, the kneejerk haters are hating.

also no mention of Booth or "Ford's Theatre Usher" on iMdB, so that line of snark looks irrelevant.

Tom Cruise cameo as John Wilkes Booth.

All joking aside, very excited for this movie.

(Re: Empire of the Sun, I need to rewatch it, but I generally like The Color Purple better despite its flaws. It just hits me in a place that Empire doesn't.)

P FIFTY ONE MUSTANG CADILLAC OF THE SKY

Empire of the Sun is great except for the score, which is an abomination

this looks terrible

also lol @ WF zing

"historical biopics" probably one of my least favorite genres, but wth, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

except as this isn't cradle-to-grave Abe, but the last 2 years or so of the Civil War, IT IS NOT A GODDAMN BIOPIC.

Are we going to see him chop down the goddamned cherry tree or not, is all I want to know?

He doesn't even have wooden teeth in this. Unrealistic imo

no Abe-Joshua Speed mandates either

As long as they show him sew the first American flag I'm fine with it, tbh.

I can't wait to see the part where the mechanism overheats and smoke starts pouring out of his ears

You're thinking of the Hall of Presidents.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbhvqfs2D11qeecrxo1_500.jpg

if I'm not mistaken Lincoln is a president

and much of the movie takes place in halls of one kind or the other

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF0j69pAM7g

I DEMAND ROBOT LINCOLN MALFUCNTIONS

http://www.rossford.k12.oh.us/pages/uploaded_images/tumblr_lhr6d6JCih1qbnukno1_400.jpg

btw Eric

Schindler's List: NOT A GODDAMN BIOPIC
Amistad: NOT A GODDAMN BIOPIC
Hook: NOT A GODDAMN BIOPIC

They should remake "Westworld" where the entire Hall of Presidents goes haywire and runs amuck.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IBmku1-HI8Q/RkuIon9DB5I/AAAAAAAAAS0/qhOrrxtXEv8/s400/1860_4_222.jpg

there's already a film version of the vidal novel.

TV, yes? Did Gore adapt it?

i believe so -- haven't seen it.

hate the idea more that history is made by a few great white men doing great things

the film is about the passage of the 13th amendment, so that's kind of hard to avoid.

Ladies and Gentleman. MC's and sucker amateurs alike. The Notorious... L.I.N.C.O.L.N!

i like tony kushner (he gave a speech at my college graduation!) but no fucking way that everything he touches turns to gold.

i saw his musical and it was only ok

also there's such an amazing complex historiographic debate over the emanc. proclamation and the 13th amendment that i just don't know what streamlining and dramatizing one of the positions would really add to it. but that's just my POV.

I never said everything he touches turns to gold; I saw Homebody/ Kabul.

oh god: Sam Waterston in the Vidal adaptation

anyone seen that? waterston also did lincoln's voice in that ken burns joint.

I only mention the Vidal novel because it boasts a couple of excellent set pieces in which the Lincoln cabinet debates the subtleties of the Emancipation Proclamation (when to release it, which states are covered, etc) and the new amendments in ways that satisfy amateurist's worries.

Waterston as Lincoln

*shouting* FOUR SCORE! AND SEVEN YEARS AGO!...

I remember that Waterston version. Mary Tyler Moore as Mary Todd! The guy from Empty Next as William Seward!

david leisure as john wilkes booth!

omg it sounds like a fever dream

except as this isn't cradle-to-grave Abe, but the last 2 years or so of the Civil War, IT IS NOT A GODDAMN BIOPIC.

― kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Friday, September 14, 2012 12:09 PM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i wouldn't define a biopic so narrowly. one can write a biography of a certain phase of somebody's life. it's possible this is still not a biopic, and really does disperse its attentions among various characters in the drama over ending slavery.

(would you call "gods and monsters" a biopic, out of curiosity?)

not sure why i'm engaging with you b/c this will surely devolve into some insult about michelle obama, but i think you raise a vaguely interesting question.

flub-a-war dinkin

The American Civil War -- what's widely misunderstood about it?

a biopic is one that follows the Walk Hard formula

or The Jerk

The American Civil War -- why is it so bad and hated?

i can't believe how old this thread is. i started and finished college, moved four times, and got married and divorced in the time it took spielberg to get around to finishing this.

I prefer the term "birth to deather" to "biopic." Less confusion.

How dope would it be if the movie literally opened with a closeup of Abe emerging from his mother's vagina and ended with him riding an escalator to heaven

A little doper than opening with a closeup of Abe emerging from an escalator and ending with him riding into his mother's vagina.

D.W. Griffith made that one.

http://axecop.com/index.php/acask/read/ask_axe_cop_24/

Gaspar Noe's "Lincoln"

"(would you call "gods and monsters" a biopic, out of curiosity?)"

Not remotely. It's based on a NOVEL (ie the whole gardener story is fiction), and it covers what, the last month of James Whale's life?

Noe version: entirely shot over Lincoln's shoulder.

Or from the tip of a .44 bullet w/ trippy journey through President's brain

bela tarr's lincoln: six shots depicting young abe trudging six miles through frozen mud and whipping wind from his log cabin home to the closest single-room schoolhouse.

actually it would be hilarious if he made that film and just called it young mr. lincoln.

The music in this trailer is kind of suffocating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_PfTl63qQQ

this played after the debate

The more lines we get to hear Daniel Day Lincoln deliver the more I want to see this.

Something about how Abe points at member of his staff/Cabinet and talks about the Constitution reminded me of this.

idiot Spielberg-hater Jeff Wells rants about DDL's voice every week, needs to stfu

http://f.cl.ly/items/2U3v183S0q1d0t2r2X44/harrisulysses.jpg

damn

ulanesses s grant

who's that Grant?

jared harris

Layne Price IS Ulysses S Grant

Lincoln sounds like my grandpa, downstate Illinois farmer.

Looks like Jared Harris, yeah?

xp

ah, I don't watch Mad Men so I haven't seen him in anything post-Happiness cept Benjamin Button.

xxxxp

He was in that latest horrible John Carpenter POS and was completely wasted. Actually the stupidity of that whole movie could be an entire thread.

TV spot suggests that Field may not be a disaster as Mary.

i always used to get him mixed up with toby jones

hes gonna be a perfect Grant

yeah I'm feeling Sally as Mary Todd

this looks exciting!

someone on the Wells blog suggested he sounds like middle-aged Walter Brennan, which is probly what Abe sounded like.

haha

i'm not going to be able to get that out of my head now

Jared Harris is the first thing about this movie that makes me want to watch it tbh... lol @ TLJ wig

damn I still wish Kushner had adapted the Vidal novel. In Grant's intro scene he tries to check into a hotel and is ignored until he says his name; then he eats soup clumsily with an officious congressman.

reading the Vidal novel now btw

I swear I think I remember that scene from the miniseries.

My aunt gave me the Kearns book a few months ago but I haven't read it yet. I wonder if I can plow through it before this opens.

it's only "partly" based on that book, which is kind of an unusual official credit.

then he eats soup clumsily with an officious congressman.

be a lot less clumsy if he used a spoon, am i rite?

does not seem a likely scene for a prestige Hollywood historical drama. Unless it was about Grant.

It's been, what, 25 years since I watched it. But I've never read the book and that scenario sticks out in my mind for some reason.

I mean, it was followed by the hotel guy or whoever bending backwards afterward, "Oh my! Please, accept my apologies General Grant! Come right this way!" etc.

YES

The front desk clerk's tone of voice never changes either.

has anyone seen the mini-series?

This is the 'surprise' Monday night screening at NYFF. Can't go for medical reasons...

hope your [amusing old man malady] gets better

is that what they calling it instead of The Big C

wait waht

Hemorrhoids do not require meds that cost $7000/mo, iirc.

gotta read more threads, SMC. (I'll probably be sorta fine, btw.)

I am super-sorry to hear about this and wish you the best fwiw

morbs, you're the gravel in ile's gizzard. we need you. so, do what you need to do and I wish you a full recovery.

all the best, dr m -- i go 'damn right!' re: your posts more than you'd prob assume.

Waiting until after the first treatment before I post "Other than that, Dr. Morbius, how was the play?"

I've already hesitated posting to any weight-loss threads

damn Morbs. All the best.

yeah, stick it to the man Morbs

hideous trailer, didn't expect this to look more unappetizing than J. Edgar

kick the c's ass, dr. m

so "clothed in immense power" is a fucking meme, already?

sometimes i kind of wish things would stop becoming memes

and the memes like mayflies die in their multitudes day after day, littering the earth, only to see new swarms appear

Why you hurt feelings of meme bro, broheem?

i like how the immense power line + booming batman music makes him look villainous

i can't wait for thomas dilorenzo's review

i just saw this trailer and for a second thought it was ben stiller as lincoln and the whole thing was a sketch on some show

NYFF reactions pretty encouraging (ck out casting of 'trio of hooligans')

http://www.fandor.com/blog/daily-nyff-2012-steven-spielbergs-lincoln

James Spader! really looking forward to this

Thanks for that link! I am really pumped for this now.

*whines* but I want to see it nooooooooooowwww

A critic friend's FB status is more than encouraging: "Spielberg's LINCOLN is the best film Roberto Rosselliini never made. A detailed, dense historical procedural that's unlike anything he's ever made -- a huge, huge directorial challenge. Avoids epic gestures, but is still absolutely enthralling. Holy f*ck."

Seeing it next Wednesday. Fingers crossed he's right.

actually an "1860s West Wing" written by KUSHNER is pref to all other variations.

yeah they quoted Bilge in that Fandor post

Trying to avoid most of the coverage on this one.

oh mama

even from trailer clips i gotta say DDL looks to be pretty enthralling in the role.

also i feel like for some reason robert todd lincoln was the role joseph gordon-levitt was born to play.

I expect presence of JoGo AND Hot Fugly Shirtless Guy From "Girls" as Union soldiers in this film will inspire at least one piece of gay slashfic.

It seems to have done so already, in your head at least.

i really like when HFSGFG says "you maybe"

silby, I do have thing(s) for cute sinewy Jewish guys and baseball players.

Hoping for a few lean, deaf, tattooed Mediterraneans among Grant's ranks.

try some spaghetti Civil War movies.

"We used Lincoln's own watch in the movie," said Spielberg. "The watch ticking in the movie is Lincoln's own watch. It was wound for the first time in 50 years. There was a high bar to reach and we brought that to Richmond where we shot the movie."

http://movieline.com/2012/10/09/lincoln-sneak-offers-19th-century-intrigue-and-21st-century-oscar-contender/

Why was it wound 50 years ago?

probably a sesquicentennial watch-winding party.

and all this time, I thought a watch party was something different.

"Every 50 years, they wind Lincoln's watch. And for 24 hours, the 16th president returns ... to feed."

This is not a biopic.

The only question is how long the battle scenes will be, and how much portent and sentimentality the John Williams score will attach to a story and speeches we're all pretty familiar with.

Nix and nix. "Avoids epic gestures" ain't the half of it.

Congressional trash talking aside.

I just want long dialogue scenes between Lincoln and Seward. Did we get them?

You get long dialogue scenes between almost every character. Perhaps not as long as you're hoping for. There's a great bit, though, where one of Lincoln's cabinet members too slowly realizes he's been drawn into listening to yet another story from Linc and leaves in a huff.

so is this worth watching

obv especially with Kushner there was going to be lots of talk, and storytelling/jokes.

I was totally engrossed in it, but I'm not a presidential scholar. It's definitely a far more patient, methodical film than the last Spielberg-Kushner movie (espousing patience is the movie's chief political portent), but doesn't have as much of an immediate impact.

(Also, that was James Spader?!)

would have been neat if it was constructed just of five to ten long dialogue scenes. filmmakers don't do that anymore.

Not when DreamWorks is paying, c'mon. That'd be a play.

I picked the Goodwin book up at the library, but i don't figure to get real far in the 3 weeks i'll have it cuz it's too heavy to carry on the subway.

xpost It almost is!

LOL, oh, I thought you meant 5 to 10 minute long dialogue scenes.

The Goodwin book is a brisk read.

Not when DreamWorks is paying, c'mon. That'd be a play.

I picked the Goodwin book up at the library, but i don't figure to get real far in the 3 weeks i'll have it cuz it's too heavy to carry on the subway.

― cancer, kizz my hairy irish azz (Dr Morbius), Thursday, October 18, 2012 9:34 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sure, spielberg wouldn't be the one to make that film. but it's no less cinematic than anything else.

no one has noted that Sec'y of War Stanton is played by D-Day from Animal House

^^that was the first thing I said when a friend looked up the cast list on Wikipedia!

Amazing that D-day has had a better, more consistent career than pretty much anyone else in that movie including Oscar nominee Tom Hulce.

Yeah, D-Day has one of the standout scenes in "The Insider."

shame that there's not a role in this movie for someone like John C Reilly: someone who'd seem to fit perfectly and is a good actor but his recent comedy past would throw you every time he tried to act serious in this serious movie.

I guess he was still safe for period films in Gangs of New York. (which admittedly was funnier than it tried to be)

reilly's basically ruined for dramatic roles for me at this point

So this looks awesome

there are extended adverts for this fucking dogshit all over the uk election coverage

Condolences

The dogshit was under the ads, you Tory jerk.

Hoping we get at least a couple scenes of Abe in his nightshirt, and Andrew Johnson's drunken veep speech. (Eric, plz no spoilers!)

btw, 13th Amendment passage in Goodwin's book: 4 pages.

how are you enjoying it btw?

I am. Just left the assassination for tonight.

Abe spends the entire first 50 minutes stark raving naked, furiously bouncing his page up and down on his knee.

work JoGo in there

The movie's not-entirely-veiled subtext just got a bit more prophetic for the next four years.

ok, we can fight about that after I see it

I knew Gore Vidal was losing it when he devoted one of his last NYT Review reviews to that terrible Abe-is-queer book.

has Tony Kushner said who he voted for btw?

Just sayin', you might want to walk out before the last 2 minutes, Morbs.

Pretty sure I know who his Oscar-blogging partner voted for, at any rate.

haha, is it worse than Obama being in the trailer? xp

...or maybe that was just MLK and Gandhi. So used to seeing them on t shirts w/ the prez.

November surprise: Obama is the movie's narrator.

well, any friend of suspending habeas corpus is a friend of his.

That will complicate the sequel to Amistad.

Cinque Unchained

DDL on finding the voice etc.

Even after accepting the part, “I thought this is a very, very bad idea,” he added. “But by that time it was too late. I had already been drawn into Lincoln’s orbit. He has a very powerful orbit, which is interesting because we tend to hold him at such a distance. He’s been mythologized almost to the point of dehumanization. But when you begin to approach him, he almost instantly becomes welcoming and accessible, the way he was in life.”

All told he spent about a year studying and thinking about Lincoln. “There are always practical decisions to be made about any character you’re playing,” he explained. “But I always try to find my way toward, and into, a life in a manner that allows me to think those decisions make themselves.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/04/movies/daniel-day-lewis-on-playing-abraham-lincoln.html

A.O. Scott:

William Seward (David Strathairn), his secretary of state and wartime consigliere, engages three shady characters — high-spirited hucksters (played by Tim Blake Nelson, John Hawkes and James Spader) who could have stumbled out of the pages of Mark Twain — to lure a few susceptible candidates with promises of patronage jobs once they leave the Congress. With others, Stevens’s arm-twisting proves more effective. The better angels of our nature sometimes need earthly inducements to emerge.

And the genius of “Lincoln,” finally, lies in its vision of politics as a noble, sometimes clumsy dialectic of the exalted and the mundane. Our habit of argument, someone said recently, is a mark of our liberty, and Mr. Kushner, whose love of passionate, exhaustive disputation is unmatched in the modern theater, fills nearly every scene with wonderful, maddening talk. Mr. Spielberg’s best art often emerges in passages of wordlessness, when the images speak for themselves, and the way he composes his pictures and cuts between them endow the speeches and debates with emotional force, and remind us of what is at stake.

http://movies.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/movies/lincoln-by-steven-spielberg-stars-daniel-day-lewis.html?src=dayp&pagewanted=2

Dana Stevens: http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/movies/2012/11/lincoln_directed_by_steven_spielberg_starring_daniel_day_lewis_reviewed.html

By the way, I just finished this terrific new Seward bio.

fact, fiction, etc

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/11/09/lincoln_historical_accuracy_sorting_fact_from_fiction_in_the_steven_spielberg.html

http://i.imgur.com/pKs9N.jpg

oh ffs

Kelly of course is the Onion's political cartoonist

that guy is a national treasure.

ok I feel better now

things that look like the onion and are

lol @ "admit one"

yeah that's choice

is that 'cartoonist snarking in the corner' thing a tom toles reference? i don't think i've seen any other editorial cartoons do that.

I'm a hometown Tom Toles stan but I kind of doubt even the Onion is dorky enough to be making Tom Toles references.

it almost assuredly is

J.Ro not impressed.

http://forward.com/articles/165443/spielbergs-portrait-of-lincoln-is-a-bust/

The review goes in odd tangents.

I agree with most reviewers that this should've ended a couple scenes earlier. Liked it otherwise

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2012/11/13/surprise-surprise-youd-never-know-from-spielbergs-movie-that-lincoln-was-gay/

In related news, Larry Kramer's book outing famous American heroes is going to be ... 4,000 pages?

just a big phone book type list i hope

Actually just Who's Who in American History with a new cover.

I hope he waves it around like Joe McCarthy.

rosenbaum as usual appears to be reviewing everything but the movie

This was more pious than I expected from reviews but never dull except when Lincoln turns into an Audio Animatronic. Sally Field hasn't gotten enough praise for suggesting Mary Todd's guile and cunning.

I liked Tommy Lee Jones in this.

I can't think of many American actors who can say "mephitic" without stumbling and with the right menace.

can't think of many actors period who can get away with Stevens' wig.

Jared Harris (better known to most Americans as Lane Pryce in “Mad Men”) plays Ulysses S. Grant in the movie.

yes, NYT, most Americans know that character well

but they may not know that Jared Harris plays him.

My favorite bit was when one of Lincoln's cabinet reacted to the realization that Lincoln was gearing up for an anecdote and fled the room like a Maury Povich cuckold.

Bruce McGill!

alfred i was being sarcastic, the majority of 300 million americans have not seen mad men

It's been so long since I watched it, I sort of feel like catching it again this weekend.

also: Day-Lewis was...the most innocuous person in it? I would have preferred a whole movie of House chicanery.

He nails the best Kushner line though: "I'll get used to you."

alfred i was being sarcastic, the majority of 300 million americans have not seen mad men

and I attempted a terrible joke

oh k

don't U.S. Grant has been the subject of a joke since a Lincoln Cabinet meeting.

*don't think

Love how out of the way the movie seems to be going to avoid doing almost anything a movie called Lincoln would be expected to do. Civil War battle is limited to roughly 23 seconds of screen time (i.e. the first shots + one nighttime panorama of flames that's been desperately featured in every trailer I've seen), that's not Ford's Theater, does he even wear the stovepipe more than once?, et al.

"trying to get my hands on some grants like horace," alfred!

haha

Makeup, costumes, and Deakins' lighting were terrific -- to a fault. JGL acted like a daguerreotype.

JGL was the movie's most immediately disposable element.

This really reminded me of Barry Lyndon in that the art direction/costumes/etc. were all impeccable without being ostentatious about it. It just felt true and lived-in.

Kaminski really made you smell that red horsehair

wow i had no idea this film was in the works so long.

147 years in the making.

longer than that, actually, but it originally had a different ending

you wanna make something that doesn't have teen vampires or blaxploitation cowboys, u gotta plan ahead.

Here I was ready to praise the movie for being so doggedly not-a-biopic, and then the last half-hour happened.

Also, why were Jim Beaver and/or Titus Welliver not in this?

really really liked this. eric otm. i liked that Tlj played stevens like a 19th century insult comic

well he was!

The only scene I found hokey was when Schuyler Colfax cast a vote: "This is highly unusual!" "But gentlemen, this is history!"

Colfax did ask to cast a vote, tho, so who knows, maybe that's actually how it went down.

Also, anyone know much about Stevens' relationship with Lydia Hamilton Smith? I've read conflicting accounts about whether their relationship was an open secret or if it was all just rumored.

I know Colfax for his involvement in the Credit Mobilier scandal.

Probably the best collection of hairstyles in the history of cinema.

kinda loved this

DDL was so great. it was a real "ah, of course" kind of performance. like i never pictured lincoln quite like that, but it seemed so right

this movie is fuckin hilarious

Spotting all the various dudes from television shows in this was so fun. Adam Driver from Girls! Lee Pace from Pushing Daisies! James Spader from Boston Legal! That kid from Third Rock!

James spader was a riot in this, I don't know what I was expecting coming into this but it was not ENDLESS ZING: CIVIL WAR EDISH

lol at joey g-l being "that kid from third rock" in 2012

;_; at james spader being "from boston legal"

ha i skimmed over that

i thought about saying "from the american office" but thought b.l. had more punch.

was nice to see a clean-shaven Adam Driver.

almost unrecognizable with his shirt on

xp Sadly shirted.

nice to see a clean-shaven Sally Field

Gloria Reuben from ER! Bruce McGill from Rizzoli & Isles! Gidget!

also Hal Holbrook!

from Gemma Taylor's dad on Sons of Anarchy!

oh my god -- that WAS Gloria Reuben.

s. epatha merkerson!!

Zach Braff!

Hal Holbrook, better known as Abraham Lincoln in the made-for-tv miniseries

the scene with her was weirdly appropriately placed in the movie, it reminded me of the L&O wrap-up scenes where she'd comment pithily on the case

(xxp)

s. epatha merkerson!!

― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, November 19, 2012 3:54 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh fucking awesome

the scene with her was weirdly appropriately placed in the movie, it reminded me of the L&O wrap-up scenes where she'd comment pithily on the case

Yeah I was waiting for the Dick Wolf title card to pop up

Jared Harris from Mad Men! David Costabile from Breaking Bad and Damages! Walton Goggins from The Shield and Justified!

I think you mean Jared Harris from Fringe.

Whatevs.

Apologies for infecting you guys with my nonsense.

No, there were a lot of TV dudes in this. I checked IMDB afterwards and like half the cast had been in at least one L&O ep.

I assume it's mostly just about which actors are primarily based in New York, right?

I think the movie shot in Virginia.

is it weird that there are lots of tv dudes in this when everyone is on tv now?

Hal Holbrook, better known as Abraham Lincoln in the made-for-tv miniseries

― pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Monday, November 19, 2012 4:55 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hal Holbrook, better known as a man whose gotta know his limitations.

Hal Holbrook, looking more and more like an old lesbian.

I think the movie shot in Virginia.

Right but probably a lot cheaper than flying in a bunch of LA cats.

Yeah, I guess so -- wouldn't have thought that would be a concern for a big Spielberg movie, tho.

Michael Stuhlbarg, y'all. From a schlub in A Serious Man to a stone-cold crime lord in Boardwalk Empire to a schlub in Lincoln.

is it weird that there are lots of tv dudes in this when everyone is on tv now?

― congratulations (n/a), Monday, November 19, 2012 5:17 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh please, enough with the truman show style conspiracy theorizing dude

Really, really liked the lighting,

Really really liked this a lot. Nice of Spielberg to give a little nod to Morbs with that guy shouting at Tommy Lee Jones for compromising his principles on the floor of the House.

LINCOLN SHORTLIST:

DANIEL DAY LEWIS
THE GUY WHO PLAYED JETHRO IN THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES MOVIE
STRONGO HULKINGTON

― this is sicilian medieval thuggery (dubplatestyle), Thursday, October 20, 2005

i would just like to point out that i was otm in this thread

diedrich bader lincoln... damn

strongo the emancipator

1) Somewhere, J.K. Simmons is says "What the fuck: did they not have my new number?"

2) Thread needs more Strathairn.

is saying (tablet type)

And Oliver Platt is calling up Simmons saying: "Fuuuuck."

Some darn good crossfades in that film.

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/nov/21/lincoln-authentic-wonderment/

this was dooooope

yeah it enlarges in my imagination

i do wonder tho why fernando wood was cast as someone 20 yrs younger than irl 1865 f wood

and who sounded faintly british

The best hold of the weekend belongs to Disney’s $65 million Oscar contender Lincoln, which actually increased 19 percent over the three-day weekend to $25 million and took in a whopping $34.1 million over the five-day Thanksgiving frame.The Steven Spielberg-directed drama did boost its theater count from 1,775 to 2,018 this weekend, but that can’t completely account for the major box office bump — only glowing word-of-mouth can create that sort of groundswell

Everyone I know wants to see this.

Also noticed that it was the only movie in the top 6 this weekend that didn't have a nine-figure budget.

It's the rare good movie that everybody wants to watch.

It's a feather in the cap of this election year.

:D

im glad everyone else liked this

im steven spielberg lurking btw

its a cool movie for cool bros

DDL was so great. it was a real "ah, of course" kind of performance. like i never pictured lincoln quite like that, but it seemed so right

― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, November 19, 2012 4:15 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

this is otm. i loved the way he would somewhat dorkily laugh to himself

He's everygrandpa.

Liam Neeson was the first choice for the role.

It would've been disappointing to see him electrocuting members of Congress using potatoes and fighting wolves in the Oval office.

dying to see this

DYING

this week, hopefully

neeson's such a natural choice for the role, i'm sure i would've dug his version too. apparently he turned it down because he felt too old, which c'mon liam. you can skip Battleship 2 to make this, in my opinion.

scene between Lincoln and X (Donald Sutherland) on the Mall will appear in DVD director's cut.

Fundamentally, people are suckers for the truth. And the truth is on your side, bubba!

http://jacobinmag.com/2012/11/lincoln-against-the-radicals-2/

Jacobin is a magazine of culture and polemic

Hmm, didn't like the generic score, didn't like Sally Field or Gordon-Levitt, and in fact found a lot of the over-casting distracting (Goggins!), and ending on Lincoln's death was, if you pardon the phrase, overkill, but that was a perfectly solid movie. I really look forward to what Spielberg does over the course of what one imagines will be another 20 years of filmmaking. I wonder what kind of old man director he'll make?

Everyone I know wants to see this.

It's the rare good movie that everybody wants to watch.

im glad everyone else liked this

Finally had someone (at work) tell me they didn't like this movie. They said they were hoping for a standard-issue biopic, and wondered how come everyone else seemed satisfied with something so limited in scope, which made me wonder if one of the reasons I love this is because it is so very not a biopic.

It's the rare good movie that everybody wants to watch.

I...don't? And honestly that's down to Spielberg and probably everyone else in the cast who isn't Day-Lewis. Which leads me to think I just want to see Day-Lewis do the role as a one-man theater piece.

Feel like a significant chunk of the people who want to see it are in it for DDL's read.

Jeez, tho, "probably everyone else in the cast who isn't Day-Lewis" is a TON of people to be essentially uninterested in.

I just double checked the cast list and nobody is a 'well that's a reason to see a film' actor for me, sorry. Then again I honestly don't know of any actor or for that matter director who is! I mean aside from s1ocki of course.

Even DDL is not a 'I must see EVERYTHING' actor for me, never has been.

Pretty sure there aren't ANY actors that I would ever say that about, but there are plenty whom I like and would be excited about seeing in individual circumstances.

Ned, I don't blame you for being skeptical of Spielberg in general, but IMO, Kushner's script minimizes the things people usually dislike about Spielberg.

Not to discount Spielberg's contributions entirely, tho: his technical skills and crowd-pleasing instincts serve Kushner's material well.

I blame Ned for being skeptical of Spielberg in general.

(Actually, if anything, it's DDL that would've dissuaded me from seeing this if Team Munich wasn't involved.)

Actually, DDL was the one actor I WASN'T interested in; I'm not impressed with his stoking the flames of Great Actor (I can see the guy turning into George Arliss or Paul Muni).

(I can see the guy turning into George Arliss or Paul Muni)

Feel like that's happened already.

basically the guy needs to be an actor slut and whore around projects instead of waiting around for NYT Sunday think pieces about he waiting for the right part while cobbling shoes.

naw that's the fun about DDL, not many other actors for whom every role is like a genuine Event

u really wanna see him meeting cute with jennifer garner in a starbucks

yes!

I rewatched The Boxer a few months ago and was so relieved to see him playing a modern part and flirting with Emily Watson.

An actor slut does Lincoln:

http://www.figarospeech.com/storage/baberaham.jpg

Streep's too profligate with her material for every role to be an Event, but more often than not the results would certainly qualify (last year being the annoying exception).

DDL and Kevin Kline as Nelson and Winnie Mandela.

Meryl Streep as DDL.

Somewhere, Kevin Kline (with Phoebe Cates snuggling next to him) must've thought re Lincolnin a parallel world...

There Will Be Statuettes

This all vindicates my theory that Denzel Washington plays every role he takes as himself hoping to win an award.

Sad that he had to crash so many passenger jets last year.

DDL's take is totally worth the price of admission. His performance is honestly one of the few in this film not tainted by the camp of playing dress-up.

i think some others in the film suffer as a consequence of his seemingly casual naturalism, though - the good night good luck guy, whose name i forget, seems to have dialed up the theatrics, to be animating each thought and gesture, when set aside such a well-inhabited and legible lincoln. ddl's performance in this is really fascinating; it feels like it could only exist as the confluence of his skills, his approach, but also the specific context surrounding lincoln - what the information we have about him is, how he's become commonly remembered, seen in this many photographs and painted in a certain light. he had the air of a photograph, and didn't even have to lean too heavily on those occasional stares ruminatively into the distance shots to hint at an interior. the silhouette of ddl could have been jarring, uncanny valley, and the idea that he would have been bathed in light or afforded space in each scene (like the first, talking to the soldiers) was worrisome. but he really made it work, found the right proportions. i think my favourite thing about this movie was his sleeve lengths. just too short, the slight hunch and frailty of having to reach, of needing to clutch the arm of a chair strongly to lift up his boy and take him to bed.

i liked this pretty well, anyway. some of the dramatic notes were a little pat, the score was just needless (i think we could take a hunk of the second inaugural without requiring the bugel-blower from the west wing to show up with his maudlin cornet), but as a procedural and a portrait it worked very well.

tommy lee jones is a reason to see a film (particularly this one).

yes

enjoyed this plenty just like everyone else; ddl managed to be human from underneath not just lincoln's myth but his own; tlj was endless joy; but it's been a little weird to see how intensely it's been praised for Showing The Incredible Details Of Politics. ddl says "get me those votes", james spader gets a few and says he can't get the rest, ddl says "I AM THE PRESIDENT GET ME THOSE VOTES!", james spader gets the rest. like i get that the bar of politics-on-film was pretty low (was it? i'm sure there's good stuff) but this wasn't exactly master of the senate: the movie.

James Spader, you guys.

Also, John Hawkes was about as low-key as I've ever seen him here. Tim Blake Nelson, too. I guess with Spader that broad, they kinda had to be.

the good night good luck guy, whose name i forget, seems to have dialed up the theatrics, to be animating each thought and gesture, when set aside such a well-inhabited and legible lincoln

Interesting: I had the opposite reaction. In fact, I wish Straithairn had played it this way cuz that's how Seward was.

basically the guy needs to be an actor slut and whore around projects

You missed his Stars and Bars / Eversmile, New Jersey period?

ha, that's interesting. yeah. idk, i am a little sensitive maybe, i just saw him in a play & was kinda distracted by the sorta pace at which he operates, it feels slightly too measured; he can be really great when he's low-key, i think, but to give him some room to operate in diminishes the returns for me. really happy to defer to your reading of the source material though!, so.

I'll defend him in S&B.

For a second, I thought those were extra abstruse nicknames for Gangs of New York.

well, for instance, one minor flaw (only noted b/c I'm a Lincoln nerd): I didn't get a sense of the complexity of the Seward-Lincoln relationship. By 1865 the formal rivals were total bros; from watching the movie Seward was more nervous and fluttery than he would have been.

it's only a movie, Ingrid

but it's been a little weird to see how intensely it's been praised for Showing The Incredible Details Of Politics. ddl says "get me those votes", james spader gets a few and says he can't get the rest, ddl says "I AM THE PRESIDENT GET ME THOSE VOTES!", james spader gets the rest. like i get that the bar of politics-on-film was pretty low (was it? i'm sure there's good stuff) but this wasn't exactly master of the senate: the movie.

― difficult listening hour, Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:21 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark

heh, yeah. 1776 did a way better job at that kind of thing tbh

i'd never heard of stars & bars before but the boxcover is cracking me up

there appear to be multiple boxes.

this one http://i.imgur.com/yghTi.jpg

god, if only ddl did more movies like that

lol

Thought this was mostly "pretty good" but DDL's Lincoln was pretty mind-blowing. He and Tommy Lee Jones made the movie.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/opinion/in-spielbergs-lincoln-passive-black-characters.html?_r=1&

http://www.thenation.com/blog/171461/trouble-steven-spielbergs-lincoln

god, if only ddl did more movies like that

clearly you haven't seen it?

never stopped u

rmde at these editorials, but whatever keeps the conversation going, I guess

I think that was sarcasm.

Foner's book is marvelous. The movie's conflict – the Race Against Time – doesn't match my recollection of what I've read of the period either. Wiener's right too about the powerlessness of Confederate states to stop what Congress deemed inevitable:

The film makes another false argument, that once the Southern states were back in the union, they would have the power to block the amendment’s ratification, which required the vote of three-quarters of the states. Lincoln and the rest of the Republicans were not going to allow the Confederate state governments to remain in power after surrender—that was what “Reconstruction” was all about. Louisiana, Tennessee and Virginia had already formed new governments that abolished slavery. There was no “race against time”—and thus the central drama of the film is bogus.

but Movies Aren't History etc

Rolling my motherfucking eyes at these piece of shit articles.

huh I read the nytimes piece posted and thought it rang true, and sorta had the same thoughts in the theater. am I missing something that makes it reprehensible?

Foner's book is marvelous. The movie's conflict – the Race Against Time – doesn't match my recollection of what I've read of the period either. Wiener's right too about the powerlessness of Confederate states to stop what Congress deemed inevitable:

The film makes another false argument, that once the Southern states were back in the union, they would have the power to block the amendment’s ratification, which required the vote of three-quarters of the states. Lincoln and the rest of the Republicans were not going to allow the Confederate state governments to remain in power after surrender—that was what “Reconstruction” was all about. Louisiana, Tennessee and Virginia had already formed new governments that abolished slavery. There was no “race against time”—and thus the central drama of the film is bogus.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, November 28, 2012 12:27 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, Bady's piece I linked above gets into that by way of Foner as well.

god, if only ddl did more movies like that

People wish these things and God gives them Fockers.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Bad+Luck+Lincoln.+Historical+Humor...brilliant_b57624_4241370.jpg

The NYT piece means well and all, but it's ignoring one forest for another.

Kushner's husband's tweet probably tangentially related: https://twitter.com/MarkHarrisNYC/status/273699812786987009

There is no movie criticism sillier than the kind that suggests a movie would have been better if it had followed the critic's instructions.

many of kael's reviews did just that

http://global3.memecdn.com/hipster-lincoln_o_610395.jpg

nice.

There is no movie criticism sillier than the kind that suggests a movie would have been better if it had followed the critic's instructions.

no surprise that a critic doesn't understand criticism.

I think it's hard to argue that criticism at it's very best doesn't usually do that.

Pointing out what the film doesn't do implicitly instructs the filmmakers, no?

Yeah, I'd say criticism at its best puts art into contexts for the viewers' benefit, not the artists'.

god this movie sucked. i walked out an hour in and came back ~30 min before the end. what a boring piece of garbage. spielberg should be excommunicated

from what

man ain't catholic

Excojewnicated

I do think the film had at least one too many wistful looks of appreciation from grateful black people. Totally gratuitous, given sort of underscores that subject in the first five minutes. I was so worried during that one scene that a character would actually sputter out "...if we do that, then what's next? A black PRESIDENT!?!?!"

Also, really, the less Sally Field in this movie the better. When her character spits out "all I'll ever be known for is for being crazy," I was, like, yeah, that's pretty much it, and pretty much why there should be less of you in the movie.

I liked the scene of her going all Game of Thrones on some legislators at the party tho

When Lincoln was all "dear, you are holding up the line," I thought, dear, you are holding up the movie.

Haven't fit this in yet. Mary Todd was not just crazy.

Goodwin records that blacks in Richmond actually started kneeling to Abe when he arrived in conquered Richmond; he was very disturbed by it and asked them not to.

the film had at least one too many wistful looks of appreciation from grateful black people

there were all of 2 or 3 of these

white people looked appreciatively at him at least 7 dozen times

I do think the film had at least one too many wistful looks of appreciation from grateful black people. Totally gratuitous, given sort of underscores that subject in the first five minutes. I was so worried during that one scene that a character would actually sputter out "...if we do that, then what's next? A black PRESIDENT!?!?!"

otm; sorta in concert with the score, like the piano-jaded, terse presence of elizabeth on the balcony was too clunky a note, too linear a connection between the closeminded bigotry of segregationists & the consequences of their mindset

http://blackactors.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/lincoln-2.jpg

Mary Todd's bits were not Kushner's strongest moments, but Field was damn fine holding this rickety character together.

there were all of 2 or 3 of these

― Bobby Ken Doll (Eric H.), Wednesday, 28 November 2012 15:02 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i don't think it was nec the frequency of those glances, more just the occasional vibey cutaways meant to remind us that black citizens were worried

I wonder why that could've been.

Again, all underscored in the first five minutes of the film. I don't think a film about the passage of an amendment to free the slaves need remind you in so on-the-nosey manner about the plight of black folk in this era, free or otherwise.

In fact, I think the "reveal" at the end with Tommy Lee Jones and his wife would have been more effective had the rest of the movie, save the start, take place in a similarly surreal vacuum of people debating the rights of folks literally marginalized right out of the movie.

That would've been a great movie as well.

Something about Spielberg's clean, direct understanding of film language always makes people feel like they're being condescended to.

Stevens and his concubine looked like:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqb0xv9rcY1qlw12eo1_500.png

I'm not sure Spielberg is condescending, just a tad obvious sometimes. Though I admit it's a tough balance to strike: how do you, as a 21st century liberal, make a film about a group of people denied rights, denied a place in society, and then exclude them from said film, especially since Hollywood was as guilty of this as anyone, up to much more recently as well? But how then do you create roles for people whose historic role at this time was largely to be excluded? I thought the start with the black soldiers handled this creative conundrum this very well. The subsequent teary-eyed servent stuff, less so.

That's why I thought the ending with TLJ would have worked better had there been less previous foreground of any black characters: you'd reach the end of the film, after the amendment is passed, and then bam, you're in someone's home, with an interracial relationship, sharing the same bed. Sort of a subtle flash-forward glimpse of the future.

But it was fine as it was. In fact, had the invisible Williams score been any more noteworthy, any flaws could have been magnified and made much, much worse.

a film about a group of people denied rights

Because Lincoln isn't solely about a group of people denied rights, though it is about a certain political preoccupation with said people's rights. I'll grant you, though, that this is a "problem film" to that extent.

you're the first guy i've heard argue for fewer black faces in this movie

I also agree that Gloria Reuben's big scene was one of the clumsiest or at least most obviously shoehorned-in scene in the whole movie.

I wouldn't have minded a scene between Frederick Douglass and Lincoln showing their professional friendship.

ppl asking for... Amistad

Not this person.

(A "rescreen" of that one is long overdue, tho.)

yeah, I would not rank it below The Color Purple as you did. It's also the last time I found Anthony Hopkins tolerable.

one of the original ideas they had for the movie was one that was about linc & doug's friendship over the years. that could've been cool

The first half of his term, Douglass didn't much like Lincoln's actions.

I'm not sure I want fewer black people in my hypothetical film, just think it would be more subtle/effective if they were strictly background. It might have attention to itself without calling attention to itself. "Hey, all these black people have been marginalized! Oh, wait ..." What's in here is >>> people bowing to Lincoln, though.

even tho it happened, right?

Even though it apparently happened. That just seems like one historical fact whose presence in this film would have been too distracting, even unnecessarily controversial.