First time in San Francisco, What Should I Do?

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I'm going to SF for the first time in my life and i'm very excited. I've wanted to go for ages but finally found the time/money. My girlfriend is running the marathon and i plan on a record shopping marathon of my own at Amoeba. Where should i eat (sandwiches, salads, sushi, mexican), where should i get coffee and what sights should i see. No Alcatraz, no Golden Gate bridge etc. Looking for interesting spots to check out. What electronic music focused record shops I should check out? WIll be in SF friday night - monday night.

thanks!

― biz, Friday, 21 October 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

My wife is running the marathon! She just went to pick up her pack.

Hi!

Alcatraz IS interesting.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

I don't know where you go for "salads". Anywhere.

Sushi - Sushi Zone or even better go over to the East Bay and go to Kirala

Burritos - weel, we don't know anymore. I'd probably still say El Farolito but watch them all disagree with me.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

What electronic music focused record shops I should check out?

Depends. There's a few places along the Lower Haight. Or Aquarius, I guess. Are you talking vinyl?

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:48 (twenty years ago)

Where are you staying, biz, and for how long?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

Actually, if anyone else wants to recommend a sandwich place in SF proper I'm all ears.

I would tell you Gregoire's in Berkeley but that's because I live there.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

we're staying at some Hostel, not sure where it is exactly since i didn't make those reservations.

vinyl good but used CD's even better

salads are the least important food item on the list!

keep em coming!

I'm so excited!!!

― biz, Friday, 21 October 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

you are probably staying at the Green Tortoise in North Beah or the HI hostel on Mason. If you are staying at the latter, you can get a decent but expensive breakfast/brunch next door at cafe Mason. And they have red vinyl booths.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

You should really be cheering on your lady though d00d! I'll be waiting for mine most of Sunday around Mile 16.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

used cds = Amoeba

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

The Golden Gate Bridge is pretty fucking impressive. They didn't just build it for tourists, cars actually drive on it as well.

I think there's a big electronic record shop on like Valencia & 13th or something? What's it called?

Golden Gate Park is great, and it's like 100 yards from Ameoba. Otherwise, most of SF's appeal is just in wandering the neighborhoods... the Mission, North Beach, Noe Valley, Polk Street.. more than any particular sites. Avoid Fisherman's Wharf, although I understand there's a Hooters now.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

and In-N-Out!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

sushi - Tsunami on fulton at divisidero

for tacos at least, El Farolito is just eh. the BEST tacqueria is La Tacqueria on mission at 25th.

sandwich and salad fare - i have my own favorites but it's silly to lead someone to a random one when they're everywhere and usually pretty good.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

I think SF is a rare bird in that most of the "big" tourist attractions are actually well worth visiting. But I'm from a place where you pay almost $40 and wait over an hour to see wax effigies of minor celebrities.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

ok yeah, the tacos at La Tacqueria ARE great.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

There's ALOT of great restaurant... SF's got just about every city beat for ingredients, we're in California after all.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

fisherman's wharf is awesome if you know the right places to go - like the musee mechanique and the best crab leg vendor.

there's also the bush man..

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Open Mind Records on Divisadero is great. Lots of used vinyl, eclectic selection, listening stations. If the smell of burning herbs wafting from the back of the shop offends you, beware. Actually, I think there might be a cannabis club next door, so maybe that's where the smell comes from. Tweekin Records in the Lower Haight is another good spot, especially for newer House, but also some eclectic stuff. I don't know if BPM on Hayes is still open- they also specialized in House- kind of smaller, but very friendly.

I can also recommend checking out Golden Gate Park on a Sunday. Lots of people out, especially if the weather's nice. Look for the disco rollerskaters. Also, the new de Young Museum just opened in the park, and a couple of weeks ago I made my first trip to the recently moved Asian Art Museum, which is well worth seeing.

For Mexican food, obviously, the Mission is the best. I'm a big fan of Pancho Villa's burritos. What neighborhood will you be in? And what are your other interests?

― viborgu, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

I think BPM just moved.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

The best coffee in North Beach, in my opinion, is Cafe Grecco. If you feel like a quick bite while in North Beach, try Mario's Bohemian: I usually get the marinara breaded eggplant, but they have some meat sandwiches that are beloved by my friends.

If you're going to Amoeba SF, my food suggestion is Citrus Club.

While you're in town, make sure to go to the SF Museum of Modern Art, which is awesome. The De Young and the Asian Art Museum are also great.

It might seem touristy or whatever, but the bike ride from the Ferry Building at Pier 1, around the Embarcadero to the Golden Gate Bridge is really quite lovely and a fun ride.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:03 (twenty years ago)

Rent one of those little yellow three-wheel cars in the Tenderloin.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

My favorite vegetarian burrito in the Mission is Taqueria Cancun (2288 Mission St.).

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

can you do that? great!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Vesuvio and City Lights Books on Broadway are fun if you want to catch a little beatnik sunburn.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, that was an xpost. For sandwiches, Molinari in North Beach is choice. Also a great neighborhood for wandering around, as is Chinatown (very close by)...if you want dim sum, I recommend the City View Restaurant on Commercial St, off Kearny, in Chinatown.

― viborgu, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

I'll second Citrus Club. Try the pizza at Tommasso's on Kearny if you're in North Beach. Molinari's is great.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

The burrito wars begin: I never could stand La Tacqueria (and I lived a block away from it for about 10 years). But it might have changed into something better since I've been gone.

Best burrito: Panch Villa's. 16th and Valencia. Great red sauce. Ambiance of a cafeteria, though.

I recommend any restaurant that claims to be Salvadoran or Nicaraguan. There is (or at least was) a Nicaraguan on Mission at 26th. Gut-busting portions.

Best hot and sour soup ever is (or was) at a Vietnamese restaurant on Clement; northern side of street; I don't remember the cross street, but somewhere near 4th or 5th Ave. The soup featured pineapples. And live shrimp! (Er, no. Not alive, just vibrant.)

Also, somewhere a little farther along Clement, on the south side of the street, was, or is, the greatest weird gift store, seemed to specialize in garish postage stamps of Bruce Lee and Michael Jackson put out by the Central African Empire or such like. Upstreet is a good used bookstore, Turtle Books (?), something like that.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

Panch = Pancho

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

I didn't realize you lived in SF, Frank.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

you had lived

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

I suggest not spending much time in the tenderloin at all unless you're going to Pakwan, Golden Era or Tu Lan or are getting post-show eats at It's Tops.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

mayflower on geary at (26th?) is the best dim sum and clement street is more authentic than chinatown.

you must walk across the golden gate bridge.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

http://www.froggybloggy.com/pictures/2003_02_05_17_22_05.jpg

― Jimmy Mod wants you to tighten the strings on your corset (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

And basically just walking up and down Mission from 16th to about 29th on a sunny day is a knockout, awash with color and bustle. There's absolutely nothing like it in Denver, or anywhere else I've lived, including Rome.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

hahaha, I love Big AL

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

And basically just walking up and down Mission from 16th to about 29th on a sunny day is a knockout, awash with color and bustle.

This is a fact.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Oh, hey, while in the Mission, don't forget to get a beer and some food at Zeitgeist.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

I didn't realize you lived in SF, Frank.

'86 through '98. First couple of years on Ashbery near Haight, the next three on 26th and Capp, the rest on Valencia between 25th and 26th, near a Salvation Army store, a western boot store, a Latino evangelical protestant church, a funeral home, and a flower shop. Talk about a full-service neighborhood.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:17 (twenty years ago)

Go to the Glide Church!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

have a cocktail at Top of the Mark. it's the highest point in sf and has a bit-o-history to it...
you can do this en lieu of walking across the golden gate bridge if pressed to choose due to time restraints.

honestly, you cannot pass up the jawdropping view from the golden gate bridge. even the bridge itself is inspiring. it's an exhilarating and memorable experience. just walk it. no one has to know you did something you feel is "touristy". i cross it almost every day and it never ceases to amaze me.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

i will definitely check out the Golden Gate bridge without a doubt. having watched some Modern Marvels show about it's history/building process, i wouldn't miss checking it out for anything. these suggestions are awesome, thanks for the tips!!

Kurt, I will be supporting her during the race. We've gone to plenty marathons together and it's still a joy for me to see her finish. Being extremely out of shape, the determination and stamina of the marathon runners is quite inspiring.

― biz, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

Joe's Ice Cream on Geary....

San Miguel's (Guatemalan restaurant): 3520 20th St. (near Mission Street); (415) 826-0173. It's really good and cute inside.

Sandwiches I recommend Estela's on Fillmore near Haight (used to be Big Sherm's). It's right across the street from Indian Oven (also worth visiting)

If you go to Alactraz, I recommend taking the tour that ends around sunset. It's really cool to get out there in the daylight, take the tour, and when you come out you're facing the city and you see it light up. It's awesome.

― rocknrolldetox (rocknrolldetox), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

That marathon is a fucking monster... so many steep hills, and even the downhill by the Cliff House will suck... I wish her luck.

An alternative to the Top of the Mark... the TONGA ROOM which rains indoors! And a filipino band floating on a raft playing Romantics covers.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

http://image.pegs.com/images/FA/17925/17925_e2.jpg

BEHOLD... the Tonga Room! At the Fairmont Hotel.

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

throw your children into the bay! kill a defense attorney's wife and carve "Gothic" symbols into her corpse!

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

(these suggestions brought to you by the news media. thank you).

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

why you gotta be like that

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Here are some places that I would take a friend visiting town: Golden Gate Bay Cruise, Iroha, if you like good Chinese food, try Henry's Hunan.

If you're in Chinatown, be sure to stop by the Golden Gate Bakery and get some egg tarts.

Zeitgeist also makes a Bloody Mary to die for.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and for Zeitgeist and the Golden Gate Bay Cruise: bundle up!

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

it's the highest point in sf and has a bit-o-history to it...

Not to quibble, but I can see it from my desk and it's a couple floors below me.

Bakeries - Tartine on 18th and Guerrero is excellent. Any of Pascal Rigo's bakeries/cafes are good too. As good as almost anything you find in France.

The Tonga Room also has a great happy hour, if I recall correctly.

Out of left field - St. Francis Fountain on 24th is a classic old time soda fountain.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

Michael is THE KING OF ALL HE SURVEYS

why you gotta be like that

meet kyle

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

If you're downtown and you pass by a Specialties, get a black & white cookie or whatever has just come out of the oven.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

clement street is more authentic than chinatown.

Whoa, now. Sure, Grant St. is about as authentic as Disneyland, but you don't have to wander too far off to get into the "real" Chinatown. Stockton St. is about as authentic as it gets. My impression is that Chinatown is the jumping-off point for the FOBs, and as the immigrants move up the ladder, they move further out. I presumed he'd be staying in or near North Beach, which makes Chinatown really convenient. If you don't mind dropping a few bucks, I'd highly recommend picking up a copy of Lonely Planet, with it's great recommendations for walking tours. I used mine for years after I moved here just to check out new things.

― viborgui, Friday, 21 October 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

You should go to Swan's for clam chowder (Polk & California). It's dee-lish!

― Lloyd Bonecutter (Lloyd Bonecutter), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

the other girl going with us bought the Lonely Planet so we'll take some rec's from there. all these suggestions make me wish i had a whole week!

― biz, Friday, 21 October 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

oh, you should go to cafe sport. it's this sicilian place on green, just off columbus. good food, and everything there was made by the owner. and by everything, i mean out of control decor. lunch is cheap, but i hear dinner can be pricey.

― amanda r, Friday, 21 October 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

adam wants to know who all you people are

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

ssshhhhhhhh!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

shout out to puerto allegre on valencia at 16th
best grilled chicken burrito in the city. they also have mango margaritas

best burrito i've had in sf came from an unlikely contender tucked away among the shoe boutiques and olive oil stores in noe valley-

la casa mexicana on 24th (at sanchez?) - it was a mole chicken burrito. they also do nopales. great, great food.

in my earlier post i wasn't speaking specifically about grant street but the whole of chinatown. while i agree that the streets in chinatown are neat to look at, especially if you're staying in the vicinity, clement street has a contemporary and historic authenticity that's much more interesting and engaging, with a greater asian diversity. just my opinion.

i hope you have a great time in sf, biz!
i hope the weather is nice to you :\

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

amanda, don't throw anything at me for saying this, but I wouldn't send anyone to Caffe Sport. It's overpriced and, go figure, but for an Italian place they don't know how to cook garlic without burning it. La Felce (Union & Stockton)is expensive but good Tuscan style food, Antica Trattoria (at Union & Polk) is easily the best Northern Italian that I know of. Also the pizza at Niebaum Coppola is excellent.

Swan's is excellent. I go there for oysters fairly regularly.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Actually, Cafe Venue on Market does a great salad.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Now, for adult entertainment: Hungry i has a full bar; Lusty Lady is strictly no-touch aquariums (and since they went union... well...); Market Street Cinema and Mitchell Bros. have open prostitution; nobody goes to the Garden of Eden except for lonely salemen; and the girls at "Divas" right off Polk are not what you think. Enjoy!

― andy --, Friday, 21 October 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

Or, like, go into any bar in the Castro with your shirt off.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:01 (twenty years ago)

yah watch out for those gays!

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

I liked Caffe Sport. I was only there once, but everything tasted great. The garlic wasn't burned (but I've only been there once and maybe got lucky) and the atmosphere was perfect. Go for lunch though, if you do go. It's much much cheaper.

― Lloyd Bonecutter (Lloyd Bonecutter), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

Couples Tour of North Beach Strip Clubs

Come peek into the world of fantasy and glamour with the safety of a fun group. Created especially for couples who have been intrigued or inquisitive about the world of strip clubs and exotic dancers. An Insiders Tour of Strip Clubs! We will safely guide you through North Beach's famous and not so famous adult entertainment clubs. You will learn a little about North Beach's rich history as we visit 4 adult entertainment establishments. The tour ends with a full course dinner in Chinatown.

Best of the Bay 2005 winner!
(Best Way to Learn About North Beach's Sexy History)

When: Friday October 21st
Where: North Beach SF
How much: $85 (includes entry to all clubs, drinks and dinner)

The tour is open to couples and a limited number of singles.
You must be pre-registered to attend. No drop-ins.

Contact Catherine to register
510-291-9779

or visit www.SlinkyProductions.com

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

haha

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:26 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sfgate.com/offbeat/whome.html

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

woahJim Jones - of all people - leads Anti-Suicide Demonstration
The Golden Gate Bridge - Memorial Day 1977
A year and a half before he led the biggest mass suicide of modern times, Jim Jones and six hundred of his followers participated in a massive anti-suicide demostration on the Golden Gate Bridge. Each protester wore an armband bearing the name of a suicide who had gone off the bridge; the object was to convince the bridge authority to install suicide barriers to prevent people from climbing the low railing and leaping to their deaths. The media showed up and Jones delivered a speech which, in retrospect seemed chillingly ironic. Some excerpts :
'Suicide is a symptom of an uncaring society ... The suicide is the victim of conditions we cannot tolerate and ... (pause) ... I guess that was Freudian because I meant to say which he cannot tolerate, which overwhelm him, for which there is no recourse ... I have been in a suicidal mood myself today for perhaps the first time in my life, so I have personal empathy for what we are doing here today. Thank you.'
(Another weirde demonstration occured here in 1965 when topless dancer Yvonne D'Angers chained herself to the Bridge to protest her impending deportation to Persia.)
Suicides from the Bridge

The drop from the bridge is 222 feet at low tide - the eqvalent of a fall from a 19 storey building. At least 12 people people have jumped off the bridge and survived. Bridge officials say that most suicides drive their cars tothe middle of the bridge and stop, blocking traffic while they get out and leap. Almost all jump from the east side, presumably so they can face the City skyline as they fall.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:29 (twenty years ago)

I recently went to Andrew Jaeger's House of Seafood and Jazz on the corner of Broadway and Columbus based solely on the recent SF Weekly review and I gotta say - tourist-y location, terrible name aside, and questionable video projections(!) aside - the food was really fucking good, and MAN have I missed decent New Orleans food in this town. I guess there isn't anything uniquely San Franciscan about it, I just wanted to put their name out there... crawfish etouffe was great, as was the catfish, shrimp, apple galettes...mmmmmm

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Ooooh I'd never heard of that place. I will check it out now. Thanks Shakey.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

like all the other North Beach bistros, it ain't cheap, but I'll take what I can get. The adjoining bar area is actually pretty swank, in an old-school-SF-mafia-strip-club kinda way.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Where are you from originally, biz?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

Oh for sandwiches, I got to Jay's Cheesesteak on Divis and Hayes (there is also one in the Mission, I think) East Coast West deli on polk for NY style deli and Memphis Minnies if I want bbq sandwiches. Memphis Minnies also has the best brunch in the city IMO and unlike Boogaloos (which is good too) they hardly ever have a line. No Name Sushi and Sushi Zone are the two sushi places I go to most often. I recommend Pancho Villa if you are a bbq pork or garlic prawn fan. It's the best (and probably cleanest) burrito place, but it's also the most expensive. Cancun is good for veggie burritos, but I won't touch the meat there.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

Jay's Cheesesteaks is great - the original one is at 21st and Valencia. Around the corner from Aquarius and Los Weekend. My favorite burrito place is actually Tonayense near Mission and Van Ness, but obviously opinions vary widely on this stuff...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 18:58 (twenty years ago)

we are bereft of *great* pizza.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

I thought there was some new upscale pizza place everyone was wetting their pants over...? I'll have to check with Schwantz...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

pizza orgasmica is "supposed" to be the best. i've never had it.

oooh i know what you're talking about DELFINA pizza on 18th

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

Tommasso's and Niebaum-Coppola are great thin-crust Napolitanian style pizzas.

Delfina has great pizzas as does RNM on Haight.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

i hope you're not being careless with "great"

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

we are bereft of *great* pizza.

I don't know about SF, but Berkeley has some very very good pizza places, Gioia I would feel VERY comfortable about deeming "*great*". I think about it every day.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Please to be reading.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

I don't believe I am. Different people have different tastes with regrads to pizza. As a full disclosure I should say that the best pizza I have ever had was in Grasse in the south of France and the worst was in Milan. Both Tommasso's and BC have wood burning ovens which makes all the difference, IMHO. There used to be (and may well still be) a place called Vai Via or Via Vai on Union that made quite decent pizza as well.

Orgasmica, btw, is merely OK.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

I had a pizza at RNM! We went there for Alex's birthday.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

i read that pizza article in the chronicle. i forgot about little start and i've been there like 6 times.

this is also insightful, excerpt from http://foodmusings.typepad.com/food_musings/san_francisco_eateries/:

August 19, 2005
Pizzeria Delfina

Lately, I have become quite the pizza fan. Used to be whenever Mr. Food Musings suggested ordering in or going out, all he'd get in reply was a groan (and, if I thought I could get away with it, a roll of the eyes). But then A16 came to town and life changed.

These days, great pizza is getting easier and easier to find in San Francisco. Tommaso's and Giorgio's, two traditional all-time favorites, have been joined by Little Star, and for Neapolitan-style pies (don't forget that pizza was invented in Naples) there's A16, Pizzaiolo and, as of July 19th, Pizzeria Delfina.

i'm feeling encouraged. i'm going to try new pizza this weekend. i'll report back on pizza in addition to the couples tour of north beach strip clubs.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

btw - I've been to Grasse, Michael. Lots of parfumeries. Do you know Beaulieu? My parents are thinking about buying a place there.

xp please do!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

There is tons of great pizza in SF (although it's not Chicago or NY or anything.) I like Pauline's a lot, Pizzetta in the outer Richmond is good. Supposedly both A16 (down in the Marina) and Delfina (near Dolores Park) are both good.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

Not off hand. My ex-gf's family has some property in St. Cezaire.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

I guess I will admit that most of those places are not great *great* though. Still I'm never at a loss for where to get pie. Lots of good choices.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

I hear that it is popular to place flowers in one's hair

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

We know what YOU think of SF.

SF - I imagine it as a mutt of a city, combining characteristics of several on the East and West coasts. So I wonder why it would hold much interest, when there are more defined places around. But maybe I'm just threatened by the fact that it's one of the major centers of urbanity in the nation and I know next to nothing about it.

-- gabbneb

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)

San Francisco = sui generis

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Considering that SF was founded in 1776, its a good fucking deal older than many cities on the west coast, hardly "a mutt".

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

yah but it got burnt down and stuff.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

and "Manhattanized".

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

How did people discuss pizza in Berkeley and not discuss Cheese Board in North Berkeley or Pizzaiolo in Temescal. Total weirdosity.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

I don't know your earth "Pizzaiolo". Cheeseboard is great but not *great* like Gioia, in my opinion.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)

do you think biz has bothered to read down this far? haha

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

well jees if we're gona talk about berkeley then we can talk salads at intermezzo

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

intermezzo sucks.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

it's marginal at least?

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

haha!

I've never been there. This is the place on Telegraph, right?

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Well, they have big salads. I used to work across the street and usually fled up the street to Smart Alec's or Coffee Source, but Coffee Source went under and Smart Alec's went way, way downhill. Anyway, I'd rather settle for a slightly smaller and/or expensive salad somewhere else that actually tastes good instead of the behemoth slop they produce at CI.

Their marinated tofu is good, though.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

i eat at Smart Alec's occasionally. I *never* go to Telegraph really, despite living about a five-ten minute walk from it.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I try to avoid Telegraph too. That's another big reason why Intermezzo is a no-go.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

i'd rather eat glass than hang out with cal students

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:20 (twenty years ago)

I am going to try to imagine that all Berkeley students are Franch faux-gypsy Manu Chao fans the next time I am there.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:27 (twenty years ago)

They're not, they're all preppy dudes with fancy cellphones in khaki pants!

I was talking about the people who actually, like, LIVE in Berkeley!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

HEY I AM IMAGININ' HERE! Take your negative somewhere else.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

Raleigh's has a good Cobb salad.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha! I imagine Alex standing in the middle of Market Street, blocking traffic both ways and shouting down the sound of angry horns with "HEY I'M IMAGINING HERE!!".

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

It happens all the time.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

"Best hot and sour soup ever is (or was) at a Vietnamese restaurant on Clement; northern side of street; I don't remember the cross street, but somewhere near 4th or 5th Ave. The soup featured pineapples. And live shrimp! (Er, no. Not alive, just vibrant.)"

I'm pretty sure you are talking about Mai's Vietnamese Restaurant which is quite good.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

xpost bonanza:

YUM! I love Vietnamese food.

kurt, i'm certainly reading this far but i'm also taking notes! trying to figure out how i can have pizza 7 times in 3 days. will these places deliver to Amoeba, cuz i may have to merge lunch with record shopping if Amoeba turns out to be as awesome as everyone says.

thank you so much for all the suggestions. i'll report back on our highlights and lowlights on Tuesday.

― biz, Friday, 21 October 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

it might behoove you to run around the corner (somewhat but not really) from amoeba to GORDO'S for a burrito.

mmm gordo's... one of my favorites.

9th and lincoln

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

there were just half a dozen articles in the past two months about great pizza in SF (retorts, I think, to something published somewhere that said there wasn't any). I can't remember what any of them were though. I still get Cheeseboard pizza twice a week (not SF, I know). Other people seem to swear by Little Star near Fell; haven't eaten it.

Intermezzo doesn't suck, it's really good, but the lines and students do suck. But the place that was down the block had better salads, and it closed. Oh well.

Smart Alec's is fucking disgusting, and I'm a vegetarian.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

Smart Alec's is fucking disgusting, and I'm a vegetarian.

It didn't suck in 1996.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

oh wait polyphonic said exactly what I said. yeah coffee source was better and the people who worked there were nicer.

(xpost)

it did too suck in 1996, that was the last time I ate there. I can't imagine how much worse it could have gotten

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

Smart Alec's is fine.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

i like how EVERY SINGLE SF THREAD here turns into the same discussion

adam you are wrong

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

Intermezzo doesn't suck, it's really good

They take all the ingredients and make one big ubersalad in the back, and that ubersalad sits in these huge bags all day. The elements of that salad are better than, say, McDonalds, but the lettuce is usually a little wilted, which is a huge turn off for me. Plus, in that I worked on that street for a few years, I am well acquainted with their various health code violations.

Also, the kids who work there are to salads as Corky used to be to McDonalds.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

also el farolito burritos are gross

balazo has the best in SF that I've eaten. which is admittedly not everywhere. Pancho Villa is good but the last time I was there was after some park festival and people had decided to trash the place and dump salsa and beans all over the floor and it grossed me out so I never went there again.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)

I am well acquainted with their various health code violations.

A LITTLE DIRT NEVER HURT ANYONE

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

Looking at these threads one might be forgiven for assuming that everyone in SF is a bitchy 500-lb food critic.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

it did too suck in 1996, that was the last time I ate there. I can't imagine how much worse it could have gotten

I don't know, I used to get their super huge salad thing and the salad was prepared fresh, the ingredients were solid, and it had lots of yummy garbanzos and kidney beans and a big egg and the dressings were better and their bread was better...

If you didn't like it in 1996, definitely don't go there now.

Also, I'd say that the sandwiches at Sufficient Grounds were pretty good in like 1998 but are terrible now. Yet, still better than CI.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

Looking at these threads one might be forgiven for assuming that everyone in SF is a bitchy 500-lb food critic.

Well, aren't we?

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

I've never tried farolito. I should one of these days.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

Shakey OTM!

also el farolito burritos are gross
NO

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

Also - I like all of those Central American cowboys. What are they called/what is their story? Or are they from Argentina?

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

I'm a 98-lb weakling.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

I can't believe sufficient grounds is still around.

what is the name of the sandwich shop in the alley across the street from there? I used to eat there all the time...my memory is shot. Anyway those are good.

But I hate talking about berkeley!

I'll put a word in for the Atlas Cafe in the Mission; their yam sandwich is awesome. I ate one this weekend.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

maybe you were at el farolito on a fluke day? (and it was good?)

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

But I hate talking about berkeley!

shameful

no I eat at El Farolito often. I have gone from liking Cancun to liking Pancho Villa to liking El Farolito.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

Adam we are going to Balazo next week for lunch so you can shut the fuck up and realize how wrong you are about everything.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

I gotta side with the anti-Farolito camp here. I lived around the corner from the one on 24th St for five years and quickly burned out on it. For one thing, a mashed avocado is not "guacamole". And when I say "no sour cream" that means NO SOUR CREAM. Also, no grilled chicken, just that weird boiled shit. Blech.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

can you describe the central american cowboys?

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

wow that was argumentative! all those places are fine. except farolito. meh. (xpost)

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

kyle - sure, IF YOU PAY

can you describe the central american cowboys?

you know, the dudes in ten gallon hats and spurs walking around the Mission!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

they are called "mexican guys"

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

Balazo's pretty good actually. Their plate specials are the shit. I wouldn't call it "authentic" or anything like that, but no need to be rockist burrito eater...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

phew, that's a bit bold Shakey.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

Balazo is great.

Has anybody here eaten sandwiches from Birley's?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I believe those guys are called Nortenos. Be sure to flag them down with a red handkerchief.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

why would I do that?

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I ate at Birley's all the time until they got rid of the bonus stampy card. What a way to kill customer loyalty! Their sandwiches are good though when you're in the area and sick to death of Specialty's (who just changed their menu for the fifth time in two years for no reason)

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

Norteño emblems and clothing are based on the color red; a typical norteño outfit might include red belts, red shoes, and red shoelaces. They also favor brand-name clothing such as Tommy Hilfiger, Polo, Eckō, Nautica, Dickies, Ben Davis, and the University of Nebraska's sports team apparel (especially baseball hats with the letter "N"), in red, white, and black. The use of red by Norteños and blue by Sureños supposedly derives from the standard-issue bandanas (or, according to some rumors, shoes) in California prisons, which were only available in those colors. In areas where Norteños are allied with the Crips, the use of colors is less straightforward since the Crips use the color blue.

No, these are not the people I'm talking about.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

what is the name of the sandwich shop in the alley across the street from there? I used to eat there all the time...my memory is shot. Anyway those are good.

Their vegetarian is really kinda bland, but that's all I can judge them on. Can't remember the name. I know the one you're talking about, it's across from what used to be a decent turkish coffee joint and now is who-knows-what.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

are you talking about the mariachi bands? they're called "mariachi guys"

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

not them either

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

what used to be a decent turkish coffee joint and now is who-knows-what

the guy that ran that place was great (Istanbul Express)! it's now a crappy convenience store

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

Mexican cowboys are also gang members?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

Don't you live in L.A. nordicskilla?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

sorry Adam I was just joking about the gang thing... I dunno, I always figure those guys are actual cowboys/rancheros, there's a lot of that culture in the central valley.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

How about May's, the sandwich shop on 14th & Market across from Safeway?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

Don't you live in L.A. nordicskilla?

No, Berkeley!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

Oops, never mind. I guess there aren't so many cowboys in Berkeley.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, San Francisco is wonderful.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

I'm pretty sure you are talking about Mai's Vietnamese Restaurant which is quite good.

That's it!

(As long as we're locating Biz in Amoeba, what's good near there? I remember a Cuban place where my friend Patty used to work; was OK, but didn't compare to the Latino joints in the Mission. Btw, is Chavas still open, speaking of the Mission?)

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

Cha cha cha is kind of boring, IMO, Frank.

I'm pretty sure Chavas is still open.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

There's def. not any good Cuban place near Amoeba anymore (nor in the Mission, as far as I know). Which is too bad, cuz cuban food R0XX0Rs.
Dining on Haight Street is no great shakes, but there's some passable stuff near Amoeba - the aforementioned Balazo (for good burritos, tamales, chile rellenos, etc.), for one. The Pork Store is also an old fave of mine, but often too crowded (and requires an appreciation for greasy diner food).

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

What's the place where Zare used to be called?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

hahaha - if Cha Cha Cha's is what he's referring to... man, I don't even consider that Cuban food, much less GOOD cuban food...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Zare is gone? I liked that place. Is the one downtown still there?

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

I don't know about the one on Sacramento but the one on Haight is gone. I used to really like the one downtown.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

What do you guys think of Citrus Club? That's the only place I eat when I go to Haight/Ash.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

never eaten there. If I'm eatin on Haight St its usually breakfast on the weekends followed by a visit to Amoeba.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

proposed itinerary for sunday for the two of you (assuming you'll spend most of her marathon at amoeba and haight-related doings):

(bart to 16th street)
- coffee and pastry at tartine (read paper whilst in line)
- short walking tour of the mission dist* including the actual mission dolores, maybe the mini-mall of 14th street (record store, zine shop, galleries) mission street from 16th to 24th including the de la raza, cruise down 24th eastward for a bit and stop off for a taco at tonayense. then head back over to and back up valencia street (stop at aquarius records) to 19th to dolores park and chill for a bit, drink a bottle of wine.
- pizza at delfina right down the street (nextish to tartine in fact)
bart back to downtown (or wherever it is you're staying)

*be watching for murals and interesting graffiti the entire time

i might squeeze a jaunt up twin peaks in this day too (33 bus from the corner of dolores park?) i enjoy views immensely.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

biz are you walking/driving/busing while you're here...? I'd say exploring the City on foot is def. the way to go, but it kinda restricts how much you can see. But there's no other way to appreciate stuff like the Filbert stairs or the murals on Balmy Street or GG Park... there is stuff to do in SF besides eat, I swear...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

The Citrus Club is okay. I hardly ever eat on Upper Haight. Fuck that place.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

haha

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

Seriously though I just walk down to Lower Haight and go to Rosamundes or India Oven or Memphis Minnies. I used to occassionally go to Askew Grill, but even that exhausted me too much. Upper Haight just annoys me.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

Nein's itinerary is pretty good, if a little Mission-heavy. (If you are venturing down 24th St mural-hunting, Balmy Street between 24th and 25th is a block-long oasis). The 33 does indeed go from Dolores to Twin Peaks (and also down to Haight St) and is one of the more scenic busrides in town. Plus you cruise by all the gay bars in the Castro, which have many hilarious names (The Men's Room, Daddy's, Moby Dick's, the Midnight Sun, the Pendulum, Uncle Bert's Place, etc.)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:50 (twenty years ago)

Just curious - if we had an SF thread where we were not allowed to discuss food - what would happen?

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

Alex is OTM re: Upper Haight dining vs. Lower Haight. I have yet to try Memphis Minnie's (argh that horrible gaudy sign!)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

Memphis Minnie's = *great*

I like the sign!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

The idea of SF restaurant recommendations is kind of crazy to me because you can pretty much just go outside, enter the first restaurant you see and it will be great.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

It is actually quite true. Only problem would be overpricing. I have had only one recognizably bad meal in the two and a half years I have lived here.

Thai place on Piedmont Ave - avoid!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

-- Just curious - if we had an SF thread where we were not allowed to discuss food - what would happen?

we would discuss which neighborhoods rule and which suck?

oooh - donia tomas on telegraph!

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

we would discuss which neighborhoods rule and which suck?

Potrero Hill

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

throwing it out there, because I'm hardly ever there, but I was the other day.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

Adam, have you been to Ruen Pair on San Pablo? Best Thai in the east bay.

Dona Tomas is awesome.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

We drive past Ruen Pair a lot but never go in. Once we tried and couldn't park...and we ended up going to The Macaroni Grill in El Cerrito Plaza instead. But "thing" from rancid was there and I suppose that was sort of exciting or something.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

The Macaroni Grill...now there's three words you probably didn't expect to read on this thread.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

I wonder what Michael White thinks of it!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Potrero Hill totally sucks. What is there is bland and boring, and its all spread out with no parking and very little transit access. Sunset also sucks pretty hard, esp once yr past 19th Street.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

speaking of macaroni grill, the best salad i've had in sf is at cheesecake factory :| sorry

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)

Anthony Bourdain wrote once that while he thought there was more world class good eating in Manhattan, he thought that you had a better than 50/50 chance of being able to simply walk around in SF and find a really good place to eat.

I haven't been to The Macaroni Grill. I don't get over to the East Bay as often as I should. What's it like?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)

wait, when is the marathon?

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

we would discuss which neighborhoods rule and which suck?

Potrero Hill

but chez papa and chez mama are there. and lingba. and Goat Hill Pizza, speaking of great pizza. but the parking is fucking stupid.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

all this talk about great food and i'm stuck eating fucking candy corn all day!

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

Macaroni Grill is like Applebee's or Chili's, but more pasta-centered. It's a chain.

Potrero also contains Bottom of the Hill and Thee Parkside, so that's a major redeemer.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

I love candy corn.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

What was the name of the little Korean (or was it Filipino?) BBQ across the street from Tom's, next to the bar?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)

does anyone know of any Indonesian places in SF? I had some Indonesian food in Amsterdam and couldn't remember ever having anything quite like it...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

Clement Street, no?

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

I like Potrero Hill fine. There's plenty of places to eat there too. And good bars. And lots of pretty houses.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

nice views as well

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

there's Java (?) by BURMA SUPERSTAR but i've never eaten there.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

Outer Sunset, on the other hand, unless if you aren't right on Taraval or Irving and near-ish to 19th is wank. I wouldn't live out there if I could avoid it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

I've been meaning to fo to BURMA SUPERSTAR for ages.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:34 (twenty years ago)

i might need to go to BURMA SUPERSTAR in 27 mins. i can't believe this day is not over yet.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)

outer outer outer sunset is at least by the beach which is great. but only if you never have to go anywhere but the beach or the park

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

apropos of nothing, I would like to express my love for that new sausage grill place on Market across from the Safeway. mmmm sausages

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

WORLD SAUSAGE

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

What was the name of the little Korean (or was it Filipino?) BBQ across the street from Tom's, next to the bar?

First off it's Farley's not Tom's. The BBQ is Thai and called San Francisco BBQ. It's pretty good and dirt cheap.

Search brought up:

Jakarta Indonesian Cuisine
615 Balboa St
San Francisco, CA 94118-3724
(415) 387-5225

Borobudur Restaurant
700 Post St
San Francisco, CA 94109
(415) 775-1512

You mean where Cafe Cuvee was, Shakey? I got a bratwurst there the other day that was terrific.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

World Sausage is good but SO SO SO expensive. Fuck over $5 for a sausage.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

Yeah but even their vegetarian sausages are good! Plus I enjoy the bizarre-o super-wide beer selection.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

I have a friend who used to badmouth Rosamundes cuz it was nearly $4, but he swears it's a freaking bargain compared to World Sausage. And their package deal that you can't get after 5pm or whatever really pisses me off too.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

hmm, both of those Indonesian places are pretty far away from me, sadly. thx for the lookup tho M. maybe worth a trek for a special occasion...

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

no trek too far for a new adventurous dining experience?

how far could you possibly be? get your ass on the bus??

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

Rosamunde quite simply kick's World Sausage's ass, though the later is good.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:46 (twenty years ago)

Borobudur is on Post at Jones. You do this and go to GAMH or Hemlock afterwards.

― M. White (Miguelito), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

i've barted from glen park to macarthur and walked to temescal plaza JUST for a genova deli sandwich.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

(xpost)Or the Lush Lounge where I once saw Crispin Glover kissing a GIRL!!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)

oh i just had an idea to look at what bands are playing this weekend for biz.

battle of the venues ensues

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Friday, 21 October 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

alex in sf otfm on the upper haight sucking ass.
as someone who lives in the lower and works in the upper, i spend a large part of my life in these places.
memphis minnie's is awesome.
the toronado has one of the best selections/bartenders/bar vibe in town
indian oven is good, but so is raja and it's slightly less expensive. if you want indian/pakistani, go to the tandoor-loin. but avoid naan & curry, it's gone downhill. (my recommendation: lahore karahi, o'farrell & leavenworth)
ali baba's is decent for a cheap quick falafel
plus the upper playground gallery is on fillmore
and the future primitive store/gallery is right there on steiner/haight.

but i just wanted to join in and profess my utter hate of the upper haight.

― heywood jablomi (heywood), Friday, 21 October 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

Thai place on Piedmont Ave - avoid!

Lotus? Their Pad Thai sucked, but I had some good Yellow chicken curry there once. Could be those are hard dishes to fuck up. Way overpriced, though.

My favorite restaurant right now is Breads of India in Berkeley. They print a new menu (with different stuff on it) daily, and their chicken is incredible. I've always had Tikka Masala there, but I've tasted quite a few things off of my gf's plate.

― recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Saturday, 22 October 2005 00:09 (twenty years ago)

Woah, this thread blew up!

My favorite restaurant right now is Breads of India in Berkeley.

Yes! It is one of my favorite restaurants in the Bay Area, plus it is only 4 blocks from my house!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:01 (twenty years ago)

Actually I could KILL for Breads Of India right now...

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

i thought you were going to the cheesecake factory with your inlaws?

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

No, we went to some Italian place round the corner from their hotel and I just had a salad. They are stubbornly staying on Indiana time so we ate at like five and now we're already back home.

Thanks for asking!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:09 (twenty years ago)

go to breads of india. i dare you

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

i tried new sushi. it's hardly worth mentioning but the nigiri was good. i might now have chips and salsa.

breads of inida tandoori salmon is the bomb

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Saturday, 22 October 2005 02:38 (twenty years ago)

i ate a grilled cheese sandwich in my kitchen. highly recommended

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 22 October 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

Kyle, where do you live? I'm craving a grilled cheese this morning.

we're staying at the luxurious Hostel International on Mason downtown.

if you can come pick us up and make us some grilled cheese sandies, you'd be the best ILX poster ever!

free wi-fi at Hostel Int. even though it isn't publicized and it's $2 for 30mins on their computers here! score!

going for coffee and Amoeba, in that order.

my first taste of SF? Crossdresser on the BART who wasn't wearing underwear. She was dressed nicely but when she uncrossed her legs, BLAM! the twig and berries were just flying free! Bless diversity, right?

― biz, Saturday, 22 October 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

I think it's worth the trip across the bay to go to both Amoebas, whenever I'm there.

― I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 22 October 2005 15:20 (twenty years ago)

Shakey, I went several times to an Indonesian restaurant downtown but in range of the Tenderloin, may well be the one on Post. I remember I had one dish that was supremely fabulous. But I can't remember what it was. Something like kidneys in chili sauce, maybe. Just go there and order the weirdest thing on the menu.

They had a TV going with nonstop videos of sweetly chintzy Indonesian pop.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 October 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

The tour of Mission Street must include a stop at the Foxy Lady Boutique.

― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 23 October 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

we're staying at the luxurious Hostel International on Mason downtown.

Told you!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Sunday, 23 October 2005 02:13 (twenty years ago)

my legs are killing me! i walked for miles today.

amoeba score:

Ultramarine - Companion (LTM) 15.99
Space Time Continuum - Emit Recaps (Astalwerks Promo CD) 1.99
Kaptain Kaliber - LP! (Telle CD) 9.99
Happy Mondays - Step On Remix 91 CD single (Elektra) 2.99
The Beloved - Ease the Pressure CD Single (East West) 1.99
Idjut Boys - U-Star Daze (Ustar/Jaded) 4.99 still sealed!
Ralph Lawson with Dubble D - Stars on 33 present (Fat City) 4.99

Had a good lunch at Citrus Club (lemon/coconut chicken with noodles) and bought a few goodies from Giant Robot. Walked down to Mission and Valencia area then had dinner at Cafe Gratitude on Harrison St. Back to our Hostel area hitting up Puma, Virgin Megastore and some terrible cafe where we wanted carrot cake but settled for nasty hot chocolate.

debating going to the Giant Robot party tonight to get some free Ninja Tune dvd's but don't have anyone to go with...anyone planning on going tonight? 500 Divisidero.

― biz, Sunday, 23 October 2005 02:32 (twenty years ago)

hey biz how did your girlfriend do in the marathon?

Hey SF people there is a movie shooting at the bridge on stockton/sutter. I saw an actor and stunt double make to jump off of the bridge onto a truck filled with mattresses parked on Stockton. This was from the bus, so I couldn't get a good look at the guy. Is the Fincher Zodiac movie still shooting? cause it looked sorta Fincher-ish (i.e. LIKE SE7EN) and it COULD have Been Jake Gyllenhaal...

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

Apparently it WAS the Zodiac movie but it was Robert Downey, Jr.!!!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

Will Smith has been shooting some stupid fucking movie in the Mission for the last three weeks (there's a break in shooting right now), and I wouldn't be surprised if this other shoot was related.

I fucking hate movie crews. Will Smith too.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

no it was teh Zodiac movie.

I also saw this guy there
http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/68/65/12m.jpg

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

well as long as they don't block off my street, build a fake BART station, or put up anymore fake building facades in my neighborhood Fincher's crew is okay with me.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

The Will Smith movie is "The Art Of Happyness" - a true story about a Tenderloin homeless guy who becomes a stockbroker!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

Isn't that Michael White's story?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

hahahahahaha!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

I thought Michael White's story was the story of TOULOUSE-LATREC grows to six foot and builds a time machine.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

comedy gold

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

die Will smith die. and take your goddamn gigantic light crane and GE generator and crowds of lickspittles with you.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

I don't think that light crane actually BELONGS to Will smith.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

That doesn't sound like the Michael White story afterall. I knew Hollywood would screw it up.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

gygax said they were filming THE HULK on his street, which I think is pretty apt.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

Hey HOLLYWOOD - Michael White is not a black man.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

Yeah but Will is doing this role in white-face. It's gonna win him an Oscar.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

I heard for the whole second half of teh movie, Will Smith sits at his desk in his white-face with his glasses on, posting to ILX in French about smoking and cats.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

Haha actually that's really the whole movie. The homeless Tenderloin thing is told entirely in flashbacks non-chronologically.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

Ahem...

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

Quand est-ce que ça m’arrive de écrire quoi que ce soit sur le tabagisme?

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://fe.lea.lycos.fr/html.ng/grp=build_a_site&country=fr&affiliate=frtripod&svc=hosting&adpos=1&ch=art_culture&sch=bd&ee=0¶ms.styles=tripod,tripod-im&btype=90&btype=1&btype=27&ts=1609521121?

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

http://www.20six.fr/pub/lacigale/chat-fume.jpg

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/Hereward/boolasbrother.jpg

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:39 (twenty years ago)

http://www.basista.eu.org/fun/reszta_2004/hendrix_in_heaven.gif

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

I fucking hate movie crews.

Between 'Pursuit of Happiness', 'Zodiac' and the pilot for which they're shooting exteriors here, some of my old buddies in the industry are finally making a living again.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

It's "HAPPYNESS" not "happiness"!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0454921/

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

That's how they spell in the "Loin", Michael, but really you should know that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

I note with pride that "...HAPPYNESS" also stars Dan Castellaneta AKA HOMER SIMPSON!!!!!!!!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

The Aluminum Group has/have titled albums Happyness and More Happyness.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

I admit I was fairly neutral about Will Smith's whole "Operation: Total Disruption of Shakey Mo's Neighborhood" until they put up a fake, plain, grey facade up over this really beautiful red and blue mural (which had just been completed) on the corner of 24th and York for no apparent reason. That and the giant klieg light shining into my house from 7pm - 1 in the morning several days a week.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

CAFE GRATITUDE?! ACK. HIPPY GO HOME!

― jaxon (jaxon), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

Unlikely it was a klieg (probably a 20K), but for them to be on the street after 10 pm means they had to get permission? Was your block ever canvassed/asked? They probably put up the facade because they couldn't obtain permission to film it. There's a mural on the side of a liquor store at the corner of Haight and Cole that drove a director nuts (good for him, the fcuknut) 'cause they COULDN'T FIND THE ARTIST to get permission. How I laughed. I hated that shit production.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

But not their paychecks.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

Maybe this is a GUERILLA Will Smith production.

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I assume they got permission from the block the actual light and crane were on, cuz that block and a couple others were taped off (coincidentally making parking totally shitty on the two days I happened to rent a car). But since the crane was positioned well above the rooftop line, the light shone for blocks in every direction (including right into my window a couple hundred feet away). And that was several blocks away from where the actors + cameras were - they were mostly by St. Francis and Pop's, tho they shot some other stuff at my corner liquor store really late at night (12am +) a couple times.

Anyway, my block was def. never canvassed. How I found out about it was from some PA in a yellow jacket telling me I couldn't walk down my street to get to my house. To which I said "fuck you" and walked right on by.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

HIPPY GO HOME!

the irony!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

okay, I'm never filming in Shakey's neighborhood

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

No. No. No. Adam. Just canvas the area well. Offer parking, if possible. Make a suitable donation to the neighborhood (in addition to compensating the merchants) and NEVER tell someone they can't walk down their street. Ask them nicely. Even if Shakey still tells you to gargle the contents of a colostomy bag, most people like to be helpful. They just don't like outsiders coming to their neighborhood and telling them what to do.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha good for you Shakey. Fuck film people keeping you from going home.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

I think gygax said fuck off to PAs on his street, too. They're pretty used to it, it's sort of their job!

When I made a student film in NYC, we got neighborhood kids to move off to one side by telling them that ARNIE was in the building we were shooting in front of!

― Kurt Russell in the Chinese Quarter (nordicskilla), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

I do hope that all the local businesses involved were paid well, and I can totally understand why they would be eager to participate/cooperate - and I like Pops and St. Francis and Samy's Liquors and I want them all to do well.

But yeah, don't just show up one day and start acting like you own the place.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

Most PAs are underpaid young relatives of the the ADs/Director/Producer, etc... on their way to a DGA card, or starry eyed little peons too stupid to realize they are being egregiously exploited. They generally have the social skills of day old shit and, as someone who worked in locations, where liaising with the neighborhood was precisely what I did for weeks before a shoot, I usually wished them a slow, mangled, and publically humiliating death after about the first week of shooting.

I would have suggested an additional donation to the neighborhood collectively - money for a park, or for BRAVA, or something that adds value to the hood and I would have mentioned it on the filming notice that I put out in the neighborhood. You can politely tell PAs, btw, that they have exactly zero legal authority to stop people on the street. They can only ask. OTOH, screwing w/ a film crew can lead to them having to come back if they don't get all their coverage and clusterfcuk your neighborhood for an additional day.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

The best films are the ones where you can see random pedestrians staring at the camera anyway.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

Or the guy wearing an Adidas tracksuit in a Merchant/Ivory production.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

the best films have a guy in a gorilla suit and a monkey

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

The best films are the ones where you can see random pedestrians staring at the camera anyway.

Especially if it's porno.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 24 October 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

i hear cafe gratitude is owned by woody harrelson.

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Monday, 24 October 2005 23:20 (twenty years ago)

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