seriously dudez fuck college

I think about dropping out every day. I'm gonna fail at least half, likely all, of my classes this semester. wtf me.

college was retarded and gay but you should finish it imo

http://www.sculpturegallery.com/two/discus_thrower.jpg

^good 1st line of a grad speech^ xp

i have one class to complete to get my useless degree. i have but it off for two years. awesome.

put it off, rather.

I cld get so emo right now it would make you all piss tears.

wish i'd finished college. also wish i'd never gone at all. oh well, lifetime of regreeeeeeeeeeet

i am actually studying right this second precisely how piss is different from tears, abbott, so

They're in different ureas(areas) of the body. OH FUN-EEZ

;)

every one of my friends who "went back" to college totally regrets it

I cld get so emo right now it would make you all piss tears.

― fillibustar superstar! (Abbott), Monday, April 27, 2009 2:24 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I lolz'd

I'm pondering going back to school to become a PILOT!

I miss college. I miss graduate school, actually. Law school: Sort of.

Not having gone to college seems kind of limiting. It was a pretty worthwhile way to spend four years, and that degree has made subsequent worthwhile experiences possible. Perhaps I lack imagination, but the idea of not graduating from college, assuming one has the ability to do so, seems really odd to me.

three-time college dropout!

college might very well be the most overrated thing ever...

what do you mean by overrated? Like the experience? The value of a degree?

um experience probably...i don't know firsthand much about the value of a degree though I hear it is dropping faster than the value of a [see now if I went to college I would know how to end this...]

my only regret is that i went directly to college after high school. wish i'd worked and/or traveled (but mostly worked, b/c i probably would've been way more on the ball when i did enroll). doing so really wouldn't have negatively affected my trajectory since the first two years were basically a bust anyway

i was offered a paltry scholarship to the big State U that i doubt could have been deferred, so the likelihood of me waiting a couple of years to enroll had I been so inclined is pretty slim

I'm not objective here (I'm a professor) but I do have friends in their late thirties/early forties who don't have college degrees and it gets harder and harder for them to get a certain kind of job (mostly, jobs with healthcare). If you're on the bubble, I'd say it's better to have one than not to have one- but it's not as if having one guarantees you much- it just avoids a slightly stigmatized social category, albeit one with deeper consequences later on.

^ otm

also when job market gets competitive applications w/ no degree go in one pile and those with degree go in another pile, sad but true

post 9/11 economic downturn made me rethink my no-degree-having status

End the University as We Know It

i dropped out of college midway through, and i'm the happier for it BUT ultimately have plans to go back and finish up an English degree lol. I figure that my going back is dependent moving out of NYC and being able to live somewhere affordable enough that I could work part time & go to school and not drive myself insane.

my living situation those two years was not ideal. also, i feel that i learned more just by living in new york than i ever did in a classroom, where all people wanted to talk about was marxism, derrida or hannah arendt. now that i have any problems with those things, but filtered through the mouths of obnoxious, lazy teens & post-teens... well, it was like some kind of trap.

College and universities serve two distinct purposes, as refuges of knowlege and as institutions providing credentials for employers. Because there are other refuges for knowlege, most notably libraries, and because pure knowlege is considered suspiciously by most Americans and Brits, the credentialing function has moved to the forefront.

Students who value knowlege and do not value credentials tend to view this aspect of college with well-merited cynicism. My advice to them would be, it's up to you to wring the last drop of value from your courses.

If you find you cannot learn anything you value, in spite of your best efforts otherwise, then drop out. However, the chances are good your university did have some underground rivers of knowlege that you failed to tap into, so don't put all the blame on it. Especially if you just sat back on your haunches and did nothing but carp and whine about your idiotic coursework.

College and universities serve two distinct purposes, as refuges of knowlege and as institutions providing credentials for employers.

Naturally, you are wrong as usual, I can think of a few other distinct purposes (example: $20B stimulus package for science). The NYT op-ed guy basically admits that his religious studies degree is useless, so on that basis alone, every degree is equally useless and the entire university system should be overhauled. Well, at least he proved that his degree *is* useless, at least as it concerns him, because he's a moron.

I knew when college was useless, and I knew when I could wring everything out of it.

I also am a nerd who loves school and doesn't get people who don't love school, mostly because I've always been able to wring something out of it, or change its structure so that it suits me better. (I hardly took class in middle school, for example. I just gave teachers reading lists and wrote papers on them).

As in, on the books. Got the hangover gang over.

I'm not objective here (I'm a professor) but I do have friends in their late thirties/early forties who don't have college degrees and it gets harder and harder for them to get a certain kind of job (mostly, jobs with healthcare). If you're on the bubble, I'd say it's better to have one than not to have one- but it's not as if having one guarantees you much- it just avoids a slightly stigmatized social category, albeit one with deeper consequences later on.

True up to a point. I know people who had a very hard time finding a job (outside the field of their degree) simply because they have a diploma. I don't know how it works in the US or the UK; but here, if you have a degree, you have to be paid more (than someone who doesn't have a diploma). So you're basically fucked if you want to find a job which is lower (say in a callcentre or work as a salesperson). Me, I dropped out. I'm happy I didn't get my degree in psychology but I definitely regret not going back and getting one in English. (Oh my god, I could post on ILX and you would understand what I meant!) But y'know it means fuckall cause I would never have used it as I would have ended up in the shop (of my parents) anyway. If I would need to find a job outside the shop, I doubt a degree would matter as I wouldn't have any relevant experience. But y'know I still feel a fucking moran and failure for not having a degree.

See, Psychology is the most useless bunch of shit ever. I knew that from the first session of Psych 101-- I walked out and said to myself, "Well, I'm going to get a bad grade in that class because it is such a load of shit." Got a C-, and am still sort of proud of that shit.

wow way to go

Dude stevie you are more lucid and clever and skilled at English than like 95% of Americans I know. Don't be so insecure!

And by an English degree do you mean English as in 'literature' like it is commonly used here or English as in the language? I know this question is really dumb.

I know people who had a very hard time finding a job (outside the field of their degree) simply because they have a diploma.

This is the heart of the issue IMO -- unfortunately, the days of earning a degree first and figuring out a career path later are likely over. This is true in all fields -- arts, sciences, you name it. These days, it has to be career first, and the most sensible way to break into that profession might not involve getting a degree (or might not involve getting one in your preferred discipline).

Abbott - you can do it! Just stick it out for the rest of this semester, do your best to pass what you can. Then over the summer maybe reevaluate your options.

I know people who had a very hard time finding a job (outside the field of their degree) simply because they have a diploma.

sure, but there's also a ton of jobs - think nearly any administrative assistant, research assistant, secretarial, etc., that for younger 20ish people are also almost exclusively available to people w/ degrees unless you have years of experience, and a ton of these offer benefits and much better pay. often these jobs are the foundation for the further career advancement, too.

also, college is not a trade school - sure, a philosophy or whatever degree is 'useless' in the sense that there are no jobs for philosophers w/ just a BA, but that's the same for just about any undergraduate major besides business, etc.

i think a liberal arts/sciences undergraduate degree is useful b/c it basically communicates that you have a basic competency in language, problem-solving, organizational and communication skills. whether or not that you really have those skills might vary, but in the job market that's basically what a BA does.

this is why what you major is often irrelevent - w/ one exception, when i applied for jobs no one cared that my degree was in philosophy or what my knowledge was in that field - all they cared about was that i could demonstrate those basic problem-solving, communication, and quick-learning skills that a liberal arts degree can give you

College is an institution and so are most workplace environments, and in a brutally reductive sense, undergraduate college education is basically just a "can you move more or less capably through an institution?" test. it's a pre-requisite not in the sense that it guarantees the knowledge of discipline x or y (though it is partially that)- it is also meant to just show that this person knows how to schedule themselves, meet demands, jump through hoops, be reasonably informed and articulate, not alienate or wildly infuriate others, not get tossed out for plagiarism or harassment or some other malfeasance, etc.- it is a test of one's capacity to function inside an institution, and it is not surprising that other institutions would want to see that you are already capable of being in one. So, again, it's not "sufficient", but many employers it is still "necessary" because it presumably demonstrates a set of personal qualities (ambition, work ethic, focus). The unfair fact is that lots of preparatory tutoring, smaller-class-size high school education, and lots of money and lots of grade inflation have reduced the value of this signifier, but that hasn't actually meant that it's not still necessary-yet-not-sufficient on the other side.

agree with just about everything you said

* reduced its value in the sense that performance in college could be a result of these external factors (i.e. if you have to work a job-or two!- to pay for college it can impact your performance, thus making you look like a 'worse' student when in fact you are a better equipped and more experienced member of a workforce for the very reason that on paper makes you look more 'iffy', etc.)

Agree with the above few posts. I think college has value in a lot of ways, but on the most basic level, going to college increases the chance of getting a desirable job. Having a degree doesn't necessarily open doors, but not having one keeps plenty of doors locked shut. I couldn't have my present job without a degree, full stop, and I'm glad to be doing it. That goes for most jobs that appeal to me.

i didnt go to college but im an unusually difficult and lazy person - sort of fell into doing graphic design and ive made more money than a lot of my college graduate friends - but it def limits yr livelihood possibilities - i dont regret not going but thats mostly because i know my mind and habits were such in my late teens/early 20s that i wouldve just not done the work and eventually quit - i could handle it easily now but have no desire to do so - tho who knows maybe i will someday

doors closed: yes

it is also meant to just show that this person knows how to schedule themselves

:(

i'm always surprised, and a bit relieved, when i discover that university was overall a totally debilitating experience for so many otherwise smart, functioning people, and it always does come down to the logistical aspects drew outlined.

Naturally, you are wrong as usual, I can think of a few other distinct purposes (example: $20B stimulus package for science).

Apparently you do not equate "science" with "knowlege". Odd perspective there. Also, I would love to hear the other distinct purposes you asserted but chose not to name. Here's your time to shine!

See, Psychology is the most useless bunch of shit ever. I knew that from the first session of Psych 101-- I walked out and said to myself, "Well, I'm going to get a bad grade in that class because it is such a load of shit." Got a C-, and am still sort of proud of that shit.

I overheard a couple of economists once shaking their heads in wonder over the uselessness of a discipline in which the merest tweak to any aspect of an experiment resulted in totally different results, and boy have I read some deeply problematic shit along these lines. On the other hand, the best people chipping away at understanding aspects of how people develop, learn and operate consciously = classic.

clarification: I mean the economists couldn't believe the chutzpah of the psychologists

The idea of economists attacking the epistemology of another discipline is pretty rich.

Yeah, I kind of wanted to say that but I'm not sure enough of my ground with either classical or behavioural economics and how it's performed, other than the 'duh missed meltdown' hand-wringing.

college psychology classes I have taken have been helpful

Table, what wound you up about psychology?

My B.A. was in psychology. Yet, somehow, I was never required to read ANY basic psychological text. I did read a decent amount of Jung/James/Freud/Skinner, but it was all on my own time. Way to go Mizzou.

An intro to psychology course was my worst grade in college. I do remember enjoying a book we read about feral children.

I am always astonished at how many people are hostile to university education. There are a lot of people around the world who would love to have this opportunity but can barely dream of it.

i took intro to psych to fulfill a requirement and i can see why that class would make someone think all of psych is useless and stupid. it was one of those "self-study" classes where you do the reading and come to class to take a quiz. if you didn't like your grade on the quiz you had 2 more chances to take it over. i don't know what the point of that class was or why you could get credit for it even.

Apparently you do not equate "science" with "knowlege".

Apparently you equate "knowledge" with "libraries", i.e. something that can be acquired perfectly well on your own without the need to attend university. I guess those dumb scientists will never manage to memorize the Krebs cycle without $20B of your tax dollars.

"Knowledge" and "credentials" don't run orthogonal to each other, rather, they are closely intertwined, albeit to widely varying degrees depending on one's field of study. I think everyone on this thread is pretty much in agreement on this.

College is an institution and so are most workplace environments, and in a brutally reductive sense, undergraduate college education is basically just a "can you move more or less capably through an institution?" test. it's a pre-requisite not in the sense that it guarantees the knowledge of discipline x or y (though it is partially that)- it is also meant to just show that this person knows how to schedule themselves, meet demands, jump through hoops, be reasonably informed and articulate, not alienate or wildly infuriate others, not get tossed out for plagiarism or harassment or some other malfeasance, etc.- it is a test of one's capacity to function inside an institution, and it is not surprising that other institutions would want to see that you are already capable of being in one. So, again, it's not "sufficient", but many employers it is still "necessary" because it presumably demonstrates a set of personal qualities (ambition, work ethic, focus). The unfair fact is that lots of preparatory tutoring, smaller-class-size high school education, and lots of money and lots of grade inflation have reduced the value of this signifier, but that hasn't actually meant that it's not still necessary-yet-not-sufficient on the other side.

I like this statement, but what is up with people who are at college and think it is all about turning your paper in or filling in the blue book? What is up with people who don't show up for class half the time? Then they all get jobs anyway so they aren't really tested. It's like they aren't happy to be there but mom and dad expect them to do it.

i had a totally rad time in college and learned a bunch of shit and who knows if it will help me get a job or whatever but i really loved reading books and talking with smart professors and just generally getting my mind blown with new shit every semester. most of my closest friends from high school didnt go to or didnt finish college; im not sure that any of them are 'dumber' than me in any way except in the sense that theyre 'less-widely read'--about half of them seem to regret not going to school and are back in community colleges or elsewhere trying to get in; the other half dont really seem to give a shit and are happy in their lives.

I made no effort in college and scraped through, then in the years afterwards ended up reading a lot of things I was supposed to read while I was there.

In hindsight I was an idiot, and should have used it for the resource it was rather than thinking "hey I can stay in bed every day or go out every night" etc etc. But I guess I did pass!

^^^ this describes my experience more or less exactly

Especially the word "pass" - it's even printed on my certificate! Four years just to get that. It may as well say "this person is rubbish, but they didn't do anything that we can legitimately kick them out for"

Psychology? What wound me up about it?

The professors and the textbook were reductive. A bunch of kids in the class were obviously closeted or unaware racists who asked the most blindingly misinformed questions all the time, which the professors would just not answer in the proper way. One week, the woman specializing in Alternative Psych and Mental Disorders gave a lecture on THE DANGERS OF SMOKING CIGARETTES AND DRINKING BEER. to a room of 18-20 year olds.

in other words, it was so stupid, it was insulting. yeah, i cut off my nose to spite face, but i don't have time to waste on something that would have been interesting and engaging to a 12-year-old.

maybe u shouldve taken the time to ask about megalomania before u dropped the course, table

lol

A bunch of kids in the class were obviously closeted or unaware racists who asked the most blindingly misinformed questions all the time

i think this describes every liberal arts class i took in college?

n.e.way that op-ed is weird to me because during undergrad my professors were pretty clear about the relationship btw what we were learning and the outside world: a # of my professors were working or had recently worked on wall street or in washington or other policy centers and they often took pains to relate what we did to irl problems lol one of stats profs always used example from factories (!?) on tests - i def had a lot of problem-focused courses

actually i don't mean liberal arts i mean like sociology and some philosophy classes xp

i agree w/you lamp but wasn't the op-ed mostly talking about grad school tho? not really interesting to me because if you do a grad degree anywhere in the humanities and don't have your eyes wide open abt your career potential from there i don't really have any sympathy.

harbl, i didn't take any other soc, psych or philosophy classes. most writing, english, film, architecture and music.

and Lamp, good zing, but really-- any person with intelligence who took that class either dropped it, failed it, or got a horrific grade in it. when you're bored, it is very easy to not care-- that's more the cause of hatred than megalomania.

agreed, destroyer.

i had a totally rad time in college and learned a bunch of shit and who knows if it will help me get a job or whatever but i really loved reading books and talking with smart professors and just generally getting my mind blown with new shit every semester.

Word. I had a similar experience, and I can't help but wonder if it's partly because we both went to schools where the enrollment was less than 2,000. I mean, I can totally understand how college can be an alienating experience when you're one of 75 students in a lecture hall and have no one-on-one contact with your professors. (Although I also recognize that going to a private liberal arts college is a privilege and outside of some people's financial means.)

I made no effort in college and scraped through, then in the years afterwards ended up reading a lot of things I was supposed to read while I was there.

In hindsight I was an idiot, and should have used it for the resource it was rather than thinking "hey I can stay in bed every day or go out every night" etc etc. But I guess I did pass!

― Local Garda, Tuesday, 28 April 2009 09:45 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is in part why I came back and am flying through grad school. Education is wasted on students.

yeah i think it definitely makes it easier to have a awesome time @ college if yr going to a small school where the impt resources are more easily-accessible & you have closer relationships w/ yr prof etc etc BUT i think that those opportunities are available at pretty much every school (especially considering that the glut of humanities phds means that you can go to any school from a big research state university 2 a community college and find srsly amazing profs & mentors) and it has as much 2 do w/ what youre willing to put in/what you expect from the school as anything else... by which i mean like "fuck college" as an attitude is 100% r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d but basically yr not gonna get anything out college but a degree and a couple blowies if yr not in a mindspace where its gonna be helpful

"See, Psychology is the most useless bunch of shit ever."

As I am a college dropout, I can not retort in a lucid way so I'll just say: STFU. I mean, seriously, dude, what the fuck is that for a reply? Psychology might not be your "thing," you may be "above" it, but countless people battle depression and other mental illnesses. I decided to quit because 1 I didn't "get" Freud and 2 I couldn't face up to not being able to heal children.

Abbott, I should have gone for English lit or Interpreter (English, French and German)

i'm glad i went to a large state school. dealing with all the bullshit was the best education i got.

yeah i was gonna say i went to a huge college and it seems to me that big schools can offer all the same stuff small schools can, you just have to be proactive abt it--no one's going to bring it to you.

which is indeed sort of a great lesson

homie thats what i just said

u know whats weird is how everyone on this thread keeps throwing arnd the word 'psychology' as tho its a rigid monolithic discipline

yeah max i was agreein w/you may not have been clear amidst the xposts

yeah just figured since u went to state school i probably had to speak extra slowly

;-)

;-)

to be fair, undergrad psych is kind of useless, at least in my experience. you probably don't really learn anything helpful until grad school. this isn't the same as saying the whole discipline is b.s.

I was a tri delt

lol actually i went to BU so massive private school w/60% acceptance rate-- therefore i would recommend speaking to me at a moderately slow pace

the real deal is basically that evolutionary psychology is 100% ideological bullshit loved by ron paul stans & militant atheists, everything else is a grab bag of cool & useful ideas

i agree w/you lamp but wasn't the op-ed mostly talking about grad school tho?
- see i saw-
Abolish permanent departments, even for undergraduate education, and create problem-focused programs.

when reading that op-ed i was mostly thinking about how x # of yrs ago a religion prof would have a v. tangible link w/ society - training and teaching ministers or vicars or w/e and sending them into the world but now i guess its about "scholarship" and less concrete things most religion majors are probably chicks now i bet not aspiring clerics and this feels like a dude that is just "projecting" (lol) his disciplines lost link 2 the world outside the academy on everyone else

i didnt really love being college but i got a lot out of it and the article pretty much ignores my big problems with universities which is them helping to codify class prejudices and working so hard against social mobility

the real deal is basically that evolutionary psychology is 100% ideological bullshit loved by ron paul stans & militant atheists, everything else is a grab bag of cool & useful ideas

― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:34 PM (3 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fuckin a man

except the last bit.

i mean it's aight but people who try to make everything about that are morons.

The Psych dep at university was so focussed on Freud and Lacan. I was too young to comprehend it. :-(
When someone asked what the "right" theory was, the professor just replied: "Figure it out yourselves." I can understand it now but at that age I just wanted to run away.

the biggest downside to a private school education is that they won't let your butler buy beers for you at the lacrosse matches

laundry service never really gets your whites *sparkling*

The Psych dep at university was so focussed on Freud and Lacan. I was too young to comprehend it. :-(

lacan is a dbag, strictly for eng lit/film/other non-subject undergrads.

I didn't take any psych courses in college, but really wish I had taken Narrative Psychology, which sounded super-interesting from people I knew who had taken it.

Plus, the prof seemed like a bro:
http://www.kzoo.edu/psych/photo_gregg.jpg

xpost yeah. my professor was an obvious disciple. asshole. he said there was no excuse to be late. even when the bus or train was late.

xpst

that ny op-ed about why we should reconstruct the university is pretty 0_o if you think about it. At first you think, hmm, maybe he's onto something because his sense of the injustice of how grad students are chewed up and spat out is absolutely on the money . . . but then you notice the way that, in practice, what he is calling for to replace a bad system would essentially lead to a bunch of trendy topic-driven "thematic" research-cells which would be called into being and annulled based on the whims of administrators who would not be answerable to anyone, and whose own sense of what is important would in all likelihood be cribbed from NYT in the first place. And the gee-whiz nature of his "I make my students create websites" assignments seems really beside the point. Kids can make webpages on their own time- they go to college to experience difficulty and to conquer the difficulty and resistance of texts / ideas / disciplines that are not already available to them, and to work through the encounter with values and cultures and historical periods *other than* our prevailing technological society. They are in college to learn how to do things they can't already do on their own. What he's calling for would be a university that just succumbed and knuckled under to the trendiness (or worse) of a society whose ready-to-hand yardsticks for value are "convenience" and "popularity".

they go to college to experience difficulty and to conquer the difficulty and resistance of texts / ideas / disciplines that are not already available to them, and to work through the encounter with values and cultures and historical periods *other than* our prevailing technological society

this isnt true ime and i dont think it should be true either

I've experienced both the Local Garda style (scraping through just to get a degree, really the def of "lol college" I think) and the Max style (I love learning, score with soaring strings).

Undergrad was Local Garda style, and I chalk it up almost entirely to two things. 1) I wasn't ready to go to college. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I really wanted to just move away from home and work a shit job and meet new people. After my sophomore year I decided to drop out, bought a bus ticket to L.A. (I was in Missouri at the time), made living arrangements with a friend there...and then I told my mom and she cried on the phone everyday for a week until I wimped out and promised to finish school, and 2) I wasn't paying for it. Scholarships covered almost everything, and my dad covered the other $1000 each year.

Graduate school has been Max style, and it's because I was WANTED to go back to school, I was eager to study what I'm studying, I had the shit job for a few years, and I'm definitely paying for it. When you realize that every hour you're in a classroom is costing you hundreds of dollars, it has a way of making you pay close attention.

we were talking about that op-ed piece in one of my classes the other day, and one of the dudes seemed pretty "in the know" about the author. here's his post on our class message board about the author:

One thing I can contribute is a little background on Mark C. T@ylor (I doubt I'm alone in this, since he seems to be a pretty big deal as a scholar). I often think of him when I go to the GSLIS building because his book, Im@gologies, is in the bookshelf in the basement lounge. In this book, and in some of his other work, Taylor shows a penchant for provocative epigraphs and images (like, "Understanding is impossible because nothing stands under. Interstanding has become unavoidable because everything stands between"). He is also the kind of writer who traces long progressive histories that reached their logical conclusion and passed beyond themselves into the post-post-desert behind nothingness at some point before the Reagan administration. Also, he coins neologisms. Often. That said, his writings on modern art from a religious standpoint were a revelation to me. I bring all this up because I suspect Dr. T@ylor is philosophizing with a hammer, so to speak, and intending to provoke discussion with his editorial, rather than lay out a plan he expects people to follow.

By the way, Im@gologies is an account of two classes, at Williams College and the University of Helsinki, that collaborated over email and live feeds in 1994. Emails between the professors are included in the text. It gives an interesting viewpoint on the online educational experience. If LEEP taught postmodern philosophy, we might have similar conversations to his.

...

Actually, reviewing the article, I'm probably wrong when I imply that T@ylor wouldn't like everyone to follow his advice. But I think I can say that T@ylor would not be deterred by the accusation that his statements are too generalizing or extreme. He seems to believe in writing for impact. He would probably say that simply offering counterexamples to his condemnation of higher education doesn't affect the truth of his argument.

I would guess a religion major would be really important with all of today's religious conflicts. If you also learned several languages, you could work in diplomacy. I wish I'd studied religion more in college.

In hindsight I was an idiot, and should have used it for the resource it was rather than thinking "hey I can stay in bed every day or go out every night" etc etc. But I guess I did pass!

this is also a pretty good summary of my early undergrad years. i do think that some students should NOT be pressed to go to college immediately after graduating (i shouldn't have been).

Good rule of thumb: if you don't have to shave more often than once every 2 weeks, you shouldn't be forced to go to undergrad right after high school. That would have saved my ass, that's for sure.

I had the "final in a course I never showed up to" dream last night :/

btw i took a year off btw high school and college and i wish i had take 2 or 3--i had a ton of really amazing experiences & i grew up enough to take college pretty seriously

xpost

they go to college to experience difficulty and to conquer the difficulty and resistance of texts / ideas / disciplines that are not already available to them, and to work through the encounter with values and cultures and historical periods *other than* our prevailing technological society

this isnt true ime and i dont think it should be true either

― Lamp, Tuesday, April 28, 2009 1:48 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark

duly noted

i took college a LOT more seriously after i flunked out and was re-admitted.

in practice, what he is calling for to replace a bad system would essentially lead to a bunch of trendy topic-driven "thematic" research-cells which would be called into being and annulled based on the whims of administrators who would not be answerable to anyone, and whose own sense of what is important would in all likelihood be cribbed from NYT in the first place.

O-T-M. I work in research funding and this is a serious risk. It's not that all topic-driven work inevitably ends up this way, just that it's unfortunately very often an unintended consequence that's extremely hard to control.

As I am a college dropout, I can not retort in a lucid way so I'll just say: STFU. I mean, seriously, dude, what the fuck is that for a reply? Psychology might not be your "thing," you may be "above" it, but countless people battle depression and other mental illnesses. I decided to quit because 1 I didn't "get" Freud and 2 I couldn't face up to not being able to heal children.

1. I had to take leaves from school because of serious depression, so don't you fucking dare pull that card.

2. I'm not above it, and in some ways it is very much my thing, but when it comes down to it, undergrad Psych really is a load of bullshit most of the time. In most places, those who have issues with bizarre rules, multiple-choice tests and being guinea pigs for grad student research do terribly in Psych classes. In other words, like intro Bio classes, intro Psych classes thin the herd of many wildly intelligent people-- such as yourself-- who probably could easily be amazing psychologists, but who don't jive well with the BS ingrained in many Psych departments.

3. A great many of Lacan's patients committed suicide. I've had to read a lot of his writings this semester (from a Visual Studies standpoint), and I find his work fascinating, but the guy was an awful doctor by all accounts. So perhaps not understanding him totally-- because nobody really does-- is for the best?

You are right, though, that I should have clarified my earlier statement: Psychology classes are often total bullshit. Psychology itself is not bullshit.

so don't you fucking dare pull that card.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/assenav_lp3/snapZ.gif?t=1241027232

hey guys
i teach at a small community college and today i informed a student that africa does not have its own government because it is a continent. i also corrected a student when he pronounced "Somali" as "salami"

these are vital pieces of information that life had not taught them to this point. i may be a lowly community college teacher, but i'm doing something i feel is valuable so...step off, haterz.

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m85/assenav_lp3/snapZ.gif?t=1241027232

As a community college alum, I feel that it is probably MORE valuable than most 4-year institutions.

agreed
i wasn't gonna say it, but i'm glad you did

I had small classes, knew all my profs, and went to class with people who wanted to be there. My husband was teaching down the road at the flagship state school and would complain how all this students were just there for their 4-year ski vacation (lol Boulder!). Two years cost me ~$2500 and all my credits transferred.

transferred to what

hardest class i took my entire academic career was calculus at a community college one summer. i was all it'll be cheaper (& maybe easier!) RONG.

also i am lol stupid in math, so...

i mean it WAS cheaper, but def not easier

I took some murderous classes at community college, too. After the entire class bombed a biochem exam, the teacher explained that if we didn't grasp the content and then transferred to a four-year school, the CC would get shit about not properly preparing their students for rigors of bachelor's degree coursework.

transferred to bachelor's program, xpost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Union

right now I'm sort of kind of thinking about dropping out of college or at least ceasing to be a full time undergraduate. i mean, the fact that i'm posting this here kind of attests to that because i can't even imagine discussing this with anyone irl except maybe my dad because he dropped out of high school (but i'm also posting this here because you people are smart and i want to hear your thoughts).

so i'm kind of unusual in that I'm considering dropping out with a 3.85 and heading into my senior year, and i really love going to college (no asher roth). the problem is a go to a very expensive school and only reason i could come here is because when i was a kid i was involved in a fairly serious accident and received a decent-sized insurance settlement. for paying for college, this was obviously a good thing. unfortunately, because i had this large chunk of money no school would offer me much for need-based financial, despite that fact that i come from a family of four with only one income-earner who makes about the equivalent of the starting salaries a lot of kids get out of the business school here. however, the financial aid office implied that as that settlement declined, my financial aid would go up.

shocker: that didn't happen.really the reverse has happened as tuition rose and my aid stagnated. i'm actually typing this from the library as i wait to meet with financial aid for the nth time in recent months. in may i submitted an application for aid reconsideration and i still haven't heard back. right now the woman i need to speak with is apparently at lunch. finally a counselor gave me her business card when he told me that the decision process usually takes a few weeks and i said yeah, i've been waiting a few months. i would not be surprised at all if i went back in there when i finished this post and she offered me either 'ostensible acquittal' or 'indefinite postponement'

either way, i feel like the loans i'll ultimately have to take out will be their own form of indefinite postponement. and as someone seriously considering entering a PhD program in the next few years, how the hell can i do that if i'm substantial debt? or if i want to stay in the city where i go to school (or move to another one) and pursue the things i want to pursue, how will i be able to do anything except go home with job prospects as scattered as they are and rents so high?

to be honest, just typing "i really love going to college" made me realize there's very little chance that i'll leave here but still, ughhhh

haha...and as i'm writing that i get a facebook messages from my friends debating what country to go to during spring break, gtfo

that really sucks.

youre not in debt now, and youve only got 2 semesters left, right? so theoretically youd only be in debt for two semesters worth of college, and probably have a magna cum laude degree? seems worth it to me.

the other thing i should add is that even if i were to walk over to the dean's office or whatever and drop out today, i wouldn't regret coming here at all. i've learned so much academically and socially and--not to sound like someone giving their final confessional on a real world season--changed/grown up as a person so much that itd still be worth it

max otm

college is kind of a bullshit racket but you're getting away pretty clean

if youre worried about the going-into-debt-for-grad-school thing i highly recommend taking some time off first anyway

ya 2 semesters left and my only debt right now is a few stafford loans. so i'm not one of those people who will owe in excess of 100,000.. i cant even imagine

yeah, that's the thing. everyone should take a few years off before taking the grad school plunge, anyway. also depending on what kind of ph.d. you go for, the funding could actually support you adequately.

ya i would definitely take time off regardless

also depending on what you'd be studying in grad school, you may be able to pay for a big chunk of it by working on a professor's grant (xp or what horseshoe said)

also AFAIK your undergrad loans aren't payable until after you finish grad school but that may have changed in the past 7 years

i dont know, i guess its just really scary to think that in a year i'll owe more money than i could imagine, even if in reality its not so bad/part of the game

it is part of the game, but the game totally sucks

and grad school is definitely not something i'm sure about, probably something i want to do in theory more than in actuality

if one of the reasons you want to go to grad school is how much you love college...i would seriously reevaluate wanting to go at some later date if i were you

No, you can defer while seeking higher education. That's still the case.

Dude, finish it. Seriously. I know that this is a giant pain in the ass, and it is making you look at the entire COLLEGE thing as one giant hustle, but you've made it 3/4 of the way with what appears to be a GREAT amount of success ( I graduated with nowhere NEAR a 3.85 ).

I'm all for the other things gained by going to school, like social and cultural reasons, but any prospective employer is going to think fuck all about them if you don't have a degree.

Look at this way: Two semesters worth of loans + MUCH greater possibilities for career vs. Dropping out two semesters shy of graduating + diving into one of the worst job markets in decades.

And, with having done as well as you have, you should be able to kick it and take classes you actually WANT TO during your final two semesters, right?

Do it. FINISH IT.

^^^^^^^^^^ this all makes tons and tons of sense; finishing and finishing well will give you a leg up in any job hunting you do

i think my realization of how fucked up the game is (ok im gonna stop referring to it as the game, i feel like im some clown talking about hip-hop) that frustrates me as much as if not more than the particulars of my situation. that off-hand kafka reference i made earlier feels really otm to me right now

that off-hand kafka reference i made earlier feels really otm to me right now

sort of hate myself for saying this but w/e

FINISH IT.

^^^

I've mentioned this before on other threads, but don't be like the guy I knew who quit one month before the end of his final year, and then practically instantly was kicking himself.

dude, definitely finish school

i've definitely been in the position where i've convinced myself that i could drop out and be okay, that i don't need school etc etc but really it would just be a massive pain in the ass going thru life like that, unless you're, idk, mark zuckerberg

and you only have two semesters!

ya as i said, as soon as i typed that line about how much i enjoy school and thought about it for a second i basically knew what i was doing

that said, this business is way too stressful. i just went back to the aid office and the woman i was waiting for passed along a message telling me to try again next week. the worst part about bureaucracy is how it strips me of the right even to get mad at someone because everyone is at worst doing their jobs or at best trying to help me. so i'm left coming here to complain about 'the game'

oh and thanks for these responses. they're all very appreciated

how much better is this school than your home-state public option?

Learning to deal with the byzantine process of obtaining aide is a precursor for many things in life.

Look at it as a bump on the way to your goal.

Forreals. That, too, will pass - quickly. And then, a year from now, you'll have a degree and looking to move on to the next phase, having completed this one well.

Very glad to read you're intending to stick with it. Holla for support - its what we're here for.

sorry, you're depressed

you know what to do

just pretend your scorpion and your finishing "him" but that "him" is actually higher education

I mean as much life-changing experience as you gained, when it comes down to getting a job, you either have a degree or you don't. Which is bullshit of course but it seems like the reality of it. So while, of course, if you drop out, your years of college won't be wasted in the experience/educational sense, I think you might be shooting yourself in the foot when re: the future of your career.

I mean, all of this is just speculation, since I'm only 2 months out of my undergraduate degree myself, but still.

seriously, the lack of that fucking paper will hold you back. just do it.

yes definitely stick it out. I dropped out when I was in a similar position 5 years ago and have seriously regretted it since. Your options will be restricted. I'm planning on going back next year to finish it off, but I have more responsibilities now, and it's so much harder to fit school in.

try blogging for a year, then go back to college

^^^^ lol/ritual suicide

STAY IN SCHOOL

Seriously, finish up and get that piece of paper. Helps out immensely later on, and if'n you ever come back to learnin', you won't have any unfinished undergrad crap to worry about.

I have failed at a lot of things, but never as badly as I did at being in college. A long string of menial. low-paying jobs was honestly the better option for me. At least I learned how to have a menial job. College doesn't even teach you THAT.

Plus I just plain couldn't get through college, because I was undiagnosed bipolar, and so an insane person half of the time, and the other half of the time an insane person in a different, slightly more mellow fashion. (read: smoking pot.) I can't believe I graduated high school, in retrospect.

Anyway, yeah. I'd love more school now, but the trad 4-year college thing was something I was totally not ready for, especially since I mostly got through high school by having a nice wide smile.

If I were black, I'd be in in jail right now, there's no doubt in my mind.

especially since I mostly got through high school by having a nice wide smile

I need to correct this, because it's, um, false. I remember my 12th grade anatomy teacher asking me if I was going to graduate, after I walked into her classroom reeking of two kinds of smoke. She was trying to hurt my feelings by asking me that, I realize now. Or at least make me realize that I was acting like a delinquent. But still my grade at the end of that class, for the entire year, was a perfect 100. Now, if my English teacher had asked me that, I'd had have been a little more reflective. As it was... relax, old woman, I got this one.

God, I'm a dick.

Um, Kenan, after reading all of those posts that you've made up there...I think you might be my brother. I didn't smoke pot until I was 25 (and never smoked it more than twice a month in any case), but otherwise, your experiences mirror mine.