People Who Were Bullied At School: Move On or Dwell

Bullying where one person is picked out as scapegoat is a lot more common than you might think, and leaves much longer lasting damaged.

I mean, sure, perhaps this is something your colleague should address in therapy, rather in the office.

But just because you are able to repress your emotions doesn't mean that everyone should live in the same straitjacket.

Seconded

For example, right now, this discussion is triggering extreme RAGE and ANGER in me to the point where I actually want to beat your head to a bloody pulp for being so dismissive of other people's emotions and experiences. I'm serious, it makes my blood boil.

However, because I've had therapy, and I've talked about it, I realise that this anger is directed at my former bullies. And that it is very inappropriate to express this anger in your direction. So I control that rage, and try to argue with you rationally.

Otherwise I'd be screaming and shouting and flying off the handle.

I mean, honestly, what does it actually cost you, to passively listen to your colleague's complaints? Why don't YOU shut up and deal, instead of getting angry at her?

xpost

you need to own your own emotions here, run with it!

i hardly think the office is the best place for people to share their emotions. everybody has problems - some of them very serious. but airing them at work is not usually a good idea, for yourself or your colleagues. if they're really serious, don't be coming to work; be getting therapy first.

srsly tho, she's not upset, is the thing, more triumphalist and that's maybe what's really pissing me off, kind of the "I Left That Provincial Shithole" approach, and the "And Now They're All Sprogged-Up And Fat". the bullies at my school meantime are, like, doctors and civil servants.

(sorry.)

Yes, but isn't everyone at your school, like, doctors and civil servants?

If someone breaks their leg badly when they're young, and they're left with a limp, you don't go and say "oh, MOVE ON, get over it, that broken leg was years ago, walk properly, you milksop!"

once you've figured out that your rage is NOT non-specific but relates to actual people and events, using a constructive medium to express it then you're learning to flex, control and direct it.

i used music (no, not awful emo lyrics before you ask) and it worked for me. it certainly hasn't made my tunes any more 'palatable' but i'm mainly a happier chap for it.

i used to engage in all sorts of random misdirected passive aggression and histrionic nonsense - now i just reserve it for the people that deserve it :)

-- john clarkson (jcclarkso...), January 31st, 2006.

otm!

(xxx-post)

-- Ian Riese-Moraine: a casualty of social estrangement. (eastern_mantr...), August 16th, 2005

"Nuvvieworld"? WTF.

Do we know what Graham's up to these days?

Being scarred by bullying is bullshit. These people are playing eternal victim and, at least part of them, is enjoying it. Or feeling safe in it. Someone in their twenties is certainly mature enough to make the decision not to be a victim anymore. Whether it’s bullying or an alcoholic mom or a punch happy dad, a cheating boyfriend/girlfriend etc, it’s really as easy as relegating the past to the past (no, not repressing) and dealing with yourself and your life in the present. Is pity really so attractive that people are willing to waste their lives for it?

Anyway, people who are just determined to carry this shite around with them and scrape up all the pity points they can are usually insanely boring, non-stop talkers and hypochondriacs to boot. Its really hard for me to feel any empathy at all except in the sense that they really may not realize its up to them to be OK with themselves.

and thats the best advice you'll ever get

Others want to and can't, and I feel very sorry for them. I too have little sympathy for those who wallow unnecessarily.

(so's this, obviously)

Anyway, people who are just determined to carry this shite around with them and scrape up all the pity points they can are usually insanely boring, non-stop talkers and hypochondriacs to boot. Its really hard for me to feel any empathy at all except in the sense that they really may not realize its up to them to be OK with themselves."

Oh, if only things were that simple.

You stupid, ignorant fucking cunt.

"I really hope that some day you actually experience mental illness that you can't "snap out of" or "get over" so that you realise how BULLSHIT your advice is."

Right OTM.

Some of you may reject the idea of "formative years" but I'd hazard that part of the damage is in how limited the world feels at that age, in your school years. You don't have the perspective to see how quickly it could be over, or how little it need define you -- even if you're relatively self-aware and try to maintain an center that's not affected or whatev, it's pretty hard not to accumulate shit. I certainly didn't have many options in v small community, just tried to survive school until I could move away. And I like to think that I've mostly gotten over it, but I know I've just smoothed over the chip on my shoulder and that under certain circumstances/pressures it blows up again. For instance I won't be moving back to ANY small town anytime soon, I think it would be just too reminiscent.

sorry i only got that far, did it start to make sense?

Bullying is usually perpetrated by peers in front of a peer audience.

I mean, yeah, people can't really choose how they deal with trauma to the extent some people are saying is possible, but I'd really like to know what kind of bullying we're talking about here.

dada was OTM up the thread saying no one knows the specific circumstance of the person in the thread question, so speculating on what she's on about isn't necessarily kosher.

also I would like that mug.

well, this isnt about mental illness. its about being treated badly as a kid when you don't deserve it and then letting it take over your life as an adult.

all "snap out of it" and "get over it" mean is take some control over your own life for your own sake. yr bullies aren't sorry and they arent going to look you up and apologize. some people like to be mean to other people and you cant control that but you can control how you let it effect you. im not saying the process is easy but the decision is.

Oh, if only things were that simple.

You stupid, ignorant fucking cunt.

-- Ben Mott (be...) (webmail), Today 9:51 AM. (Ben Mott) (later)

hi!

oic they're similar in that they're inflicted because the perp "can" but at the same time they have "different motivations". sure power is bound up in both, but power comes into a lot of things.

xpost what she's on about is closer to "getting called fat or four-eyes every day straight for a year" than to actual sexual assault but that's what we call bullying uk-side. parental abuse and secual assault would come udner another category, i'd think.

So is it bullying or sexual assault when someone imposes their attention on a woman w/r/t her sexuality or looks? For instance, flips her skirt up at school in front of others, or, in the adult world, calls out vulgar things about her supposed sexual attributes in a public place? These things are performed for an audience, but wouldn't be embarrassing or threatening or whatever without a whole shitload of assumptions about sex roles and aggression vs vulnerability.

you fatally underestimate the power of the subconscious mind there james. most bullying victims will involuntarily revisit their 'minor indignities' on a daily basis. it can completely cripple your confidence and ability to function if you don't get to address it.

you can't erase trauma but it can be reframed and re-programmed in some cases. people stuck in victimhood are not there out of choice - ie. 'snap out of it' is about the most facile useless bit of advice to give someone who's trapped like this.

eh?

Laurel's right in that some people don't want to admit the extent that the comments will stick with you and change you, but, I dunno, there seems to be a difference in there to me between letting something stick with you and letting something rule you. I am not unconvinced that, while some people actually do get really badly fucked up from these kinds of things because their predisposition, that there ARE some people who dwell on past insults because it is a form of security blanket.

Of course it's tricky, you can't just come out and say everyone is like that or everyone isn't like that but I think that is what is making it difficult for people to have outright sympathy.

Laurel harrassment is NOT the same thing as sexual assault and I am not sure why you are going down this route.

xpost:

most bullying victims will involuntarily revisit their 'minor indignities' on a daily basis.

HI STUPID UNFOUNDED BULLSHIT

xxpost: ally otm

I never suggested that it was. Jon said that there's no overlap and the two things are completely different, and I think there's some relation.

some people like to be mean to other people and you cant control that but you can control how you let it effect you.

Well, maybe you yourself could, but not everyone can. The constant mantra for me was, "They're just dickheads, I won't let this affect me!", but if it goes on for years, of course it'll affect you. You can try to become tough and build a shell around you, but's that not necessarily good either. I did exactly that, and it took me quite some time to realize I don't want to be tough, I don't want to have this shell, it was something I was forced into. I didn't wallow misery or anything, I've rarely spoken about those times afterwards, but it still took me several years to get over them.

I agree with this but OTOH I don't think I'd call constant beatings common-variety bullying either.

Sorry, I don't mean to frustrate you...but at what point is this whole thing NOT a continuum? Bullying, harassment, physical violence, sexual assault, etc etc.

where are you? you made some otm points upthread but now you're just trolling. please don't be nasty to me. i'm a delicate flower who's suffered more than anyone else in the world, even Jesus,lol.

why are you assuming that bullying stops in the playground? sure if it's a school thing then kicking the turd in the face might work, unlikely if it's your boss though.

You really need at least a Darth Vadar helmet and cloak to pull that kind of sentence off.

-- Laurel (sininspac...), January 31st, 2006.

things being on the same continuum doesn't mean they're not different.

he i guess. i was thinking more Derren Brown.

Been there. This is a small community, and you can track the bullies. They segue right from high school to the work place. Assholes for life.

Kate, I'm going to call you when I finish building my time machine. We're going to go back and kick some butt!

we just thought THE SAME THING!!

I have already discussed what I'd call bullying, Mark. But since you didn't bother to read it:
I would like someone here to give a definition of what the hell they are talking about by "bullying." If you are talking about ass beatings and vicious, sustained rumors, then you've got something, but if you're talking about getting called fat or four-eyes every day straight for a year then,

The emphasis being on the former rather than the latter in most cases. See Jon's post as well. Like I said, I can certainly understand people letting the name-calling and garden-variety nonsense get to them. But for reactions like what you see upthread from Kate et al to people saying basically what I just said? That's nonsense. That's why I asked--what is everyone conflating with bullying here? And why are you all so content to downplay violent, horrible behaviors done by adults by labelling them with a word usually associated with children?

xxxxpost

No, no, of course not, Ally. There's just a definite feeling of attack in the thread, aimed at people who haven't somehow "gotten over it" already. Why so vehement? Because WE already dealt with OUR issues (maybe), someone else shouldn't get the space to do so? In her own time? I'm as guilty of losing temper/patience as anyone but this is just an area where I'm afraid the contempt and dismissal I feel here can only compound the problem.

i'm not going to suggest to you for a second that change is easy

also:
but I wonder if there's something about me that attracts aggression.
Yes, there is, and it's what you may call your "fashion sense."

xposts galore, this thread is moving too fast to keep up with so fuck it.

1) There are different sorts of bullying.

2) There are different reactions to bullying too: what's hugely traumatizing to someone could be less severe to someone else, it depends on the context. So it isn't useful to say, "I lived through the same and it didn't affect me at all, stop whining!".

3) Some people get scarred for a long time by bullying, and saying "just get over it" isn't necessarily going to help the in any way.

4) There are also people who play the victim role and love getting sympathy longer than they really need it. For these people, saying "Get over it!" can actually be a useful advice.

i dont buy this 'bullies have low self-esteem' stuff either. kids suss out the weakest in the group, and round on them. because they can.

OTM. So much so, it pretty much can't be denied.

Maybe with boys, but not with girls.

This is OTM, see also sanctimonious ex-smokers, drug addicts who go born-again, etc etc. Everyone's different.

Laurel: I think the sense of attack came from the third post containing the word "cunts" in it and then going from there...peoples be getting defensive when called horrible names on a thread about bullying shockah. ;)

Bullied every day for four years straight isn't unusual. Maybe it means something different in the States, but in the UK it doesn't mean the minor indignities of school life. If it did, sure, stop obsessing. But bullying is by definition sustained I think

labelling them with a word usually associated with children

That's the point, really - adults behaving like that are displaying childish behaviour

this is too much of a crosspost but I can't be bothered rewriting it

Well, the thread was created in the context that it was becoming an issue in someone's workplace and had begun to affect that person's standing (as well as the social fabric) of the workplace the original poster in a detrimental fashion. At some point, people have to face their demons, otherwise those demons can not only be detrimental to society, but the person themselves.

they're from this creepy conservative website, but they have some other funny stuff too actually.

Get a therapist, moran!
-- Dadaismus (dadaismu...), January 31st, 2006 12:01 PM. (Dada) (later)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Get one empathy, cnuts.
-- The Late Fear And The Potato Fear (masonicboo...), January 31st, 2006 12:04 PM. (kate) (later)

Calling someone a "cnut" was in response to calling someone a "moran". It didn't just appear out of nowhere.

those definitions make you a rather tremendous, awful bully as well, far worse than anyone else on this thread.

Which definitions? Mine? I'd curious whose lives you think I've made a misery. Jon I think doesn't count - he's always given as good as he gets. So, who else? Doomie? Ethan? Ha. "Far worse than anyone else"? Don't make me laugh.

Not so much as it is the scarves and white pants, I wager. I could be wrong, I dunno. When I was a kid I got bullied mostly for having long hair and not being good at sports. I later adopted a really hostile exterior and unfriendly mannerisms and that kind of encouraged it. If I had just ignored it, maybe it would have gone away. Maybe not. Big deal. I'm over it.

as far as the what constitutes bullying, for me it was daily name calling (fag, loser, queer, pussy, etc.) and occasional (no more than twice monthly) physical altercations. the fights were never major though, and usually just involved me giving up after a few minutes and the bullys losing interest.

My favorite example of inaction was that when I was trying to reform from my combatitive ways I went to a teacher and asked for something to be done about someone who kept calling me "faggot" and was asked "well, are you?"

"No."

"Then what do you care."

ahhh, catholic school!

beanz: if you are talking about "adult" behaviors such as workplace sexual harrassment or sexual assault or parental abuse (ALL things that have come up on this thread so far), you aren't talking about childish behaviors, though, is the point I'm trying to make. I think it makes it easier to dismiss those things if you just want to turn around and call everything bullying. You need to have specific definitions for specific things in order to treat problems seriously.

Though yeah, jocelyn OTM about there being many more issues here than just kids being bullies, and part of it is IS the perception of bullying as kids being kids. No one condones it but it's not treated as a severe problem (especially if it is verbal and not physical). The answer to this is not, IMO, to call adult behaviors "bullying," though.

Sometimes girls bullying does turn into physical fights! This seems rare, though.

any here's a good story, maybe? maybe it's TMI. one of my cousins, let's call her Scarlet, is a really bummed out kid. She's fourteen I think. she listens to lots of mogwai and bauhaus and sigur ros, hates school and is quiet and withdrawn. apparently there are some in my family who think she's a lesbian (i don't understand why this is.. is it because she wears my old clothes or has short hair or shows little interest in boys?) but i think she is just depressed and upset with her life situation, and I KNOW she hates school. i wish i knew more of what was going on to make her so upset, cuz i would like to help

that is my story. thanks for your time.

OTM OTM!! Haha. The fact that I'm pretty sure most people now in my life have never seen me be "difficult" is a testament to my relative success at "getting over it".

Other than calling me asinine and the worst bully on ILX? Pardon me for reacting to personal abuse and expecting some kind of explanation. I'm happy to engage, and have read the whole thread, but waving your hand vaguely in the direction of the other posts isn't helpful.

We call it an abusive relationship.

The worst time I ever had of it was when I was forced to deal with the same kids every day at lunch for about an hour, from what, 10-13? That was pretty awful. I got in a fight with a different kid every year! Of course I always won because I had skinny kid rage.

I sympathize with bullying victims and I'll listen but only for one minute. After that I have to think does this person think that their story is any way unique among people who went to school? and time's up, done, tell me why it matters or shut up & yes, get over it. It really isn't my problem. It shouldn't be yours. The bully has completely forgotten what he/she even did to you.

Another great Malcolm Gladwell article in the NY'er dealing with how well people actually can get over trauma, vice the post-vietnam cultural idea that we can't.

and tombot waaaayy OTM.

I don't agree, it can be personal and private and can take place between two people

OTM. the end.

And the thing I get most annoyed about is, get this, bullying. So I retaliate. But you can't argue with bullies. Vicious circle.

I think the recipient's response to that behavior is part of what determines whether or not it's abusive. If the recip is another strong-willed person, there are going to be scuffles, maybe boundaries need to be re-established, but each party can look out for him/herself. If the recip is generally an accomodating person and the bully KNOWS that and is taking advantage of that nature, it's starting to slide into bullying, maybe abuse in extreme cases.

another bully's father died a year or so after i switched high schools.

now that's a real glass-half-empty attitude right there. the dude died! karma played out! i woulda been dancing on the tables...

Mark, I did explain it by methods of saying I wasn't using your definition of bullying, but rather the definitions of several v. sensitive people on ILX. It wasn't personal abuse--I was pointing out the problem with the definitions being bandied about here. I don't personally care if you want to call so-and-so a tiny man or whatever, and I'm sure it doesn't really make him stay up nights crying either, but to some people, you would be considered a TREMENDOUS bully. Is that fair? Or would you consider those behaviors merely argumentative behaviors? I was trying to make the point that these definitions of bullying make the entire terminology of bullying completely useless, it overreaches and either overreacts to possibly minor behaviors, or it excuses-by-means-of-infantizing really, really shocking and atrocious adult behaviors. Which is why I am a big proponent of, say, continuing to call sexual assault what it is, intead of saying it could possibly be bullying (for example).

Again, I ask you, is murder a form of bullying? Because that's asinine, but by the definition you gave it should be considered such. I'm sorry if this is "personal abuse" to you.

I don't think a public sphere is necessary for bullying, to go back to the main argument.

I can't even remember who I called a little man now. Oh - a search says it was Marcello. Well, there were some humdingers with him, and yes, I think he could probably handle it. I did in my search find a nasty thing I said to Ed though, which upsets me as Ed is a sweetie. But then I don't deny I've been a vicious cunt on many occasions, and I hate it about myself, and I have to live with that.

OTM. Ally?

This can happen on subtle levels or extremely dramatic/traumatic ones. I think Tuomas had a fairly OTM post a while back about the only shit people on this thread will ever agree on, particularly since a lot of people on this thread seem too emotionally close to the topic of bullying to argue anything other than their emotions.
xxpost

I think my problem is I seek out the bullies :)

There are a bunch of other people on here who do variations of the exact same thing and many of them have posted to this thread; I actively like some of them, I get along with some of them and I actively can't stand a few of them. Such is life.

Dan, Explained!

Nabisco's black?

This has completely made my day.

goddamned chicken pox scars!!!!

I mean, if you're gonna talk about people who have actual POWER on this board, you're talking about Alan, teeny, Pashmina, Andrew and stevem. OMG WHAT HORRIBLE BULLIES oh wait, it's actually most of the most reasonable on the board (when the people who are closest to the definition of "bully" are stevem and Andrew, that's a pretty fucking even-keeled group of people).

This is of course a slippery slope because that is EXACTLY why it is nearly impossible to get anything done about verbal bulling and rumors in real life high schools.

NOODLES

Unless you are actually receiving a physical beatdown, most bullying is is based on perceived power. It's as real as you think it is, or allow it to be. This is another thing bullies prey on, and why a lot of the time their tactics are based more on intimidation--the threat of violence--than actual violence.

So basically, yeah, power on ILX is totally imaginary, but so is a lot of power. xxxxxpost

I felt a bit like that too but rather than put me off it drew me in further so as to enjoy that position myself. Maybe enjoyment is not the right word, though I have to say I do sort of enjoy all this squabbling - perversely perhaps. Can't take the heat? get your head out of the oven.

That said, I have only very rarely seen anything I would consider bullying on ILX.
xxxpost

Also, talk of 'not feeding the troll', or ignoring another ilxors posts, is a power thing too, no?

I can't even remember if there were bullies in my school, which makes me believe I was one. Probably, since I can be a huge dick.

There are about five thousand caveats in every position I've taken on this thread because despite the language I'm using to talk about the issues, I don't feel strongly invested in this argument.

Lots of people of all colors have lots of terrible shit happen to them, but it doesn't give them the right to perpetuate that shit, nor does it somehow give them some special protected status in their dealings with other people. Personally, misogyny has had an enormous impact on me as a person, and influences my life every single day, but the idea of being unsympathetic to "men" because I perceive myself as "their" victim and somehow more entitled to understanding than them strikes me as incredibly unfair.

People can sit around and play "my trauma is worse than your trauma" one-upping and grandstanding games with or without regard to race, but I don't see how it's useful or relevant, and I don't know where it's supposed to get us except further away from each other.
xpost

Don't complain about not being taken seriously and then get upset when someone does take you seriously.

Don't get bitchy when people give you what you ask for. Also, add me to the list of people who don't take you seriously.

why would anyone care about other people's jobs on this thing? Except Tom and Jon but they can just play with each other.

I'm sorry but if people seriously think there is some kind of bullying power structure on an internet message board...that seriously weirds me out too, so we're even.

i was simultaneously and equally amused and irritated by this remark, which is pretty much ILX Dan in a nutshell (AND HE CLEARLY REVELS IN IT)

And the idea of a power structure WRT how long people have been here makes FAR more sense than the idea of a power structure WRT race/job/sex on the internet.

You don't like my response? You could have said something intelligent or at least as sincere instead of taking the imaginary high ground and insulting me. I have no idea what it is you were trying to do here, at all, and I no longer care.

it's blurry because there are other things going one associates with the playground/school e.g. odd rolling feuds/virtual vendettas between two or more people, towel-slapping and pissing contests...

It would hold a lot more water if it wasn't so ironic the way you add I'm sorry I didn't view your single post in the rich tapestry of all your other posts ever when it's obvious you didn't even view it in the rich tapestry of his SECOND PARAGRAPH, and then blew it off AGAIN when he reposted it.

This is just like what happened on the fucking EXCELSIOR HAW HAWS thread today with Rumpie and Tuomas and Kate all losing their fucking minds for no good goddamn reason at all and completely misapprehending the argument against titling a thread "Air Fresheners" and composing the body of that thread entirely about the stench of one's own fecal matter.

So anyway, that's why people get "bullied," as Dan points out, sometimes your patience runs dry when trying to communicate with imbeciles who seem to be purposefully misunderstanding everything you say.

the fact that there are admins on the board = there IS a power structure on ILX.

case closed.

second, the notion of 'bullying' on a board like this doesn't quite cut. the whole thing about a really bad situation is it's grinding inescapability. that doesn't count here. if someone really homes in on you on ilx and you can't handle it, you just fuck off and don't come back, fair enough.

and third, all of you fatally underestimate the power of the subconscious mind.

[/hippy]

school, workplace, living situation whatever, if you can wriggle away you're all good.

if you don't understand that then i defy you to tell me you've ever been bullied.

-- Dan (A Winner Is Me) Perry ([email protected]) (webmail), January 31st, 2006 5:10 PM. (Dan Perry)

You're right, treating people badly is very funny. Thanks also to TOMBOT for piling on with his own barely related issues. The only thing that surprises me now is that Jon hasn't joined in. Way to go, guys.

The caveat paragraph was meant to indicate several things:

- The preceding paragraph was an irrational emotional response.
- I have not sat down and reasoned through everything I've said on this thread outside of acknowledging that I am a bully sometimes, so it's likely that I'm taking several contradictory stances by accident.
- I am not going to lose sleep over any argument I get into on this thread.

I didn't think this was going to be particularly confusing when I wrote this. I fully accept that portion of the blame. Conversely, asking me an obvious and insulting question in return does not fit any definition of "reasonable perception" or "genuine engagement" that I subscribe to; you were either completely denigrating my intelligence or playing sophomoric rhetorical games.

You are trying to bully me just as much as I'm trying to bully you; you just decided to play the "you're unreasonable!" card and wrest the imaginary high ground away from me.

(xpost: And now you're playing to everyone reading for sympathy.)

that last one was an xpost to deej

i'm pissed as a cunt now so take me with a wee pinch eh?

.Since when is bullying defined by being inescapable?

i think its a key component of bullying. thats why its two main arenas are the school, where you are forced to be, and the workplace, where it is difficult just to walk out, for many people (the ones that are prime for bullying)

the ability to escape the bullying, immediately makes the likelyhood of bullying diminish. a prospective victim is one who is unable to escape. how can you bully someone who can just get up and leave. that, in itself, is power.

only the prone are ripe for bullying

this is so otm

You're like 10 minutes from coming home! No way am I going to poke the bear. I'm holding back here and I have a lot I could say.

Hahahahaha I would consider sending you money if you actually did this!

Second, I didn't see the question I asked as insulting, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. Your earlier comment that no one took you seriously seemed to indicate that you WANTED people to take you seriously--and yet your behavior and the way you communicate your ideas makes that really hard to do, as this our exchange has exemplified. The tension between those two opposing notions made me question whether you had really examined your behavior in regards to cause vs. effect. You admit that at least one stance you expressed was irrational and that there might be inherent contradictions in your logic on this thread, and indeed I had a sense that maybe it wasn't something you'd totally pieced together cohesively. If I was wrong, I'm sorry, but sometimes it's harder to be objective about yourself than about anyone else. My intent was never to insult you, and I wasn't being sarcastic.

I also think you're confusing "playing for sympathy" with "being really angry and hurt." I approached you in as open and sincere a manner as I approach all people I respect, and ended up feeling attacked and jerked around for no real reason that I understood. I admit I took a shot or two at you in reaction, which I regret. Clearly we had a misunderstanding, but I wish you'd tried to clarify with me at some point along the way instead of assuming the worst and unloading on me when I had no idea what was going on.

And no Jon, I'm not 10 minutes from home. I'm still at work.

An apology to Laura H

I'm sad that Rumpie may have left us before she got round to 'Remember Fruit Spangles?', 'C/D Picking your nose and eating it' and 'Stuff that collects between your toes when you wear socks all day'.

xpost

I'm not saying one thread is more mean-spirited than the other -- I haven't even read this, like I said! I bet "so not gonna happen" is more fun, though!

Oh fine, Tracer, go ahead and ruin my perfectly good superciliousness with facts.

the worst revenge is when you run into them fifteen years later and realise that they're doing way better than you :( :( :(

(this hasn't happened to me yet, but if i carry on wasting my time reading silly internet arguments...)

xp

I haven't ran into anyone I knew, nice or not nice, in high school in many, many years. I am cultivating an aura of being dead, I decided I needed some Eddie and the Cruisers mystique with those people. From what I've heard, none of them did particularly well for themselves, the meaner kids I mean. Or the nicer kids, I lived in a shit neighborhood but that's irrelevant.

xposts

NOT EVERYONE LIVES IN THE EASTERN TIME ZONE, BULLY.

I skipped half of it anyway.

I'd just like to say, in high school I was slapped, punched in the mouth, had guys grab my non existant tits and laugh at me, girls spent 3 months barking at me like dogs and laughing, no teachers gave a shit, etc etc.

I have put it in its place, and while I may have issues and hate school memories and yes, have suffered from severe medicated depression: I DONT BLAME SCHOOL OR HARP ON IT.

I know a few rape victims, who have quite firmly and strongly said "I will NOT let this turn me into a mess, a victim".

OK not everyone can do this. But I do think conflating other mental illness you have anyway with way way past is not healthy. Even the chemically mentally ill can still work and fight towards health by not DROWNING in their own selfmade shit all the time. Do people who obtain spinal injuries just sit back in their wheelchairs and say "oh well I'll never walk again?". No they very often fight it, do everything in their power not to let it ruin their lives. Or else, you will just rot and die.

Take your own power back. Stop using your shitty past as excuses for your shitty now. This does not mean "snap out of it". You cant "snap out of it". But you CAN work to make what you have better every day.

Not "doo". "dyew". And I have no idea the point.

I thought you were having a v oblique go at me! ;P

(x-post. I think.)

gah this is what made me start the thread, this person's response being all triumphalist AND poor-me *at the same time*.

dan otm re. perceived power relationships -- schoolkids don't 'actually' have power either; even if bullying is about power dynamics, they exist in the mind (like most power relationships, really).

-- terry lennox. (...), January 31st, 2006.

don't know what this means but i'm fairly sure it's idiotic.

So anyway, that's why people get "bullied," as Dan points out, sometimes your patience runs dry when trying to communicate with imbeciles who seem to be purposefully misunderstanding everything you say.

Nobody likes being told that their opinions and preferences are ruining someone else's enjoyment of ilx – especially if they don't think that the other person's enjoyment should take precedence over anyone else's nor that they're being reasonable about the amount of 'harm' being done. In some cases this is justified imo and some not. I think Rumpie might have felt Ally's response to a not-unusual thread was disproportionate and left it at that, had it not been for Ally's follow-up after it was reposted to the excelsior thread – which did seem a bit over the top to me at least. I have no problem with the sentiment, though I disagree with it, that ilx needs less bodily fluid – or, indeed, any of Ally's opinions or anyone else's. But the language was intimidating - designed to overstate for comic melodrama maybe, or just a transatlantic decontextualisation or meant seriously or whatever, but there are ways of expressing an opinion that don't make someone so upset they want to leave ilx. Doesn't matter whether what the discussion is about.

And it's possible that people who think everyone else is an imbecile aren't expressing themselves very well, or are starting from a position of ignoring other people's opinions – losing patience before beginning the discussion even. The bullying that goes on is almost all about misplaced intellectual superiority which, on a board like ilx, is what is most upsetting for people who hope to be listened to. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, Tom, and if so I hope you'll point out in what way – but I'm not doing it purposefully. Incidentally I don't mean to suggest you're any more guilty of this than I am or anyone else is.

Going over this argument again seems like an unproductive thing to do. I wonder why I'm doing it.

An apology to Laura H

Awwwwwww, the nice...

As I understand it, people were annoyed that two of Rumpie's threads had titles that didn't give any clue that they might include 'crude' content. How this became "Rumpie, are you stupid?" so quickly seemed an excessive reaction, particularly on a forum that's had Atari Penis Face, bath girl and goatse.cx splattered all over seemingly innocuous threads on numerous occasions.

It happens a lot

I tend to use "strong language" or as Momus would have it "testicular" expressions as a comic overstatement to accentuate my lovely and endearing character trait of being angry and disgusted with everything all of the time. Whether or not you find it funny or abrasive etc. etc. matter of personal taste. I'll just summarize by saying that not talking like nabisco or other arbiters of clear, mild-mannered prose style is a conscious choice on my part.

The bullying that goes on is almost all about misplaced intellectual superiority which, on a board like ilx, is what is most upsetting for people who hope to be listened to.

It's a two-way street - what actually gets me most riled up on ILX more than anything is when people appear for all intents and purposes to be willfully misinterpreting another person's comments (with or without clearly defined "caveats" or disclaimers or implied disclaimers from context) just so that they can claim offense and take some sort of high ground about [x]. That's disingenuous, doesn't give credit to the sensibilities of the other people in the conversation (cf. Dan's "No, I never thought of that, because I am retarded" comment above) and creates a false attacker-victim relationship in what should be open debate.

Basically if someone says something you disagree with don't act like you were personally attacked. This is the goddamned INTARWEB, FCOL, it's never personal until someone steals your username.

xpost

Indeed?

Also, there are a bunch of broad-brush social factors at work in my experience that are not applicable to her experience; hell, even friends I grew up with and am still very close with to this day didn't recognize the baseline differences between my experiences and theirs until they experienced An Incident with me and realized, "Wow, that is never going to happen to me but it could happen to Dan pretty much at any time."

There is an entirely different set of issues that women face which I don't have to that I am entirely sympathetic towards precisely because of issues I've had to face with regards to race, so Laura's point about being discriminated against due to sex really just makes her a much more forgiving person than I am. I could word this better but I'm not going to because I'm posting at work and need to be spending my editing time on work docs and not on ILE posts.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't contradict themselves fairly regularly.

absolutely, 1,000% OTM. and what's worse is that this conduct is tolerated by the gatekeepers.

i do agree with this, though!

There is a "gang mentality" here but it is not gangs of friends or gangs of old timers or whatever. It's whomever feels like piling on at the time, whomever is having a bad day. People willfully misunderstanding each other or ignoring one another's arguments JUST to create that.

And Jon and Kate please GET OVER IT. I know those are dangerous words on this thread but SERIOUSLY.

what's depressing is how easily impressed so many people are by it, like there's this vicarious thrill in finally getting to be the bully. and part of the democrats' problem obv. is the perception of them as the bullied, and whether people admit it or not there's always a tendency to pull away a little from bullying victims -- partly because they can seem kind of pathetic, and partly because people are afraid of being bullied themselves, by association.

BRAIN VS MUSCLES guys. cunning vs power. etc.

absolutely, 1,000% OTM. and what's worse is that this conduct is tolerated by the gatekeepers.

yeah the moderators should've just let Calum or whoever carry on doing theire thing really...

lol?

Bath girl?

There are a few people I would love to verbally slap upside the head round here but thats not me, and it wont help, so like those others, I'm mostly stickin' to mongrels and ILGames now, sorry. The petty bickering isn't even entertaining anymore.

The other situational aggressions were between more equal parties and I feel less guilty about, but still wrong, and it was all such a waste of time. It's a shame. I had one friend who played all of our friends off the other by selecting one one month to be the best friend, and the others would get shut out. Of course it would change and it should have seemed obvious, but at the time I pretty nearly played right to her, and ignored other friends just because she spearheaded, and of course suffered when I was the one to be ignored. I don't know though, perhpas it ultimately helped to be on the receiving end of it; it helped me to rethink my friends and choose more wisely and hopefully get away from all that petty stuff. Maybe.

-- A BOLD QUAHOG (dr_...) (webmail), Tuesday 9:42 AM. (ex machina) (later)

THANK YOU

I was reminiscing with old high school friends via Facebook and the topic came up: what do you think of teachers who insinuate or float the rumor that someone is being bullied or abused (by peers OR family) when they are NOT? In my experience this is a kind of bullying!

I think they're fantastic

i shall henceforth carry with me to all sporting/public events a large placard emblazoned 'TOMBOT, Wednesday, February 1, 2006, 2:48pm'

In re the OP: yeah, it's generally pretty bad and counterproductive to go around telling people how much you were bullied and complaining about it as an adult. Pity-seeking and self-victimization are pretty counterproductive.

However, as a person who got over that sort of thing, I found it helpful (in therapy) to try to come to objective analysis about why certain things happened. E.g. I had a lot of bad experiences getting picked last, picked on around sports, etc. Eventually I started to look at this from the perspective of others and realized that I was a very frustrating person to have on a team, because I was not only not very good at sports, but sort of spacey and stubborn and didn't put in much effort. This was not something inherently "wrong" with me, but a result of the fact that (1) I did not practice sports and (2) deep down I had a resentful attitude about sports and about the kids who tended to be team captains and took it out passive aggressively. This in turn made me realize that a lot more in my life is within my power than I thought, and that respect of others is something you can earn.

Of course obviously there are plenty of things for which you can get picked on that are immutable (sexuality, physical characteristics, etc.), but I'd still imagine that lingering resentment and passive aggression can stand in the way of leading a better life later on.

Ha, it wasn't until I was well into grad school that I had the same realization about elementary/middle school sports.

I had a teacher who was bullied as a kid and he made sure to make up for it by bullying every single student who asked for help.

yikes

Fuck.

Life's not perfect. Deal with it or moan all your life.

Anyone noticed how since combine harvesters put millions of agricultural workers out of work in the 1930's, we've had to develop professions like psychologists, counsellors etc to deal with "internet bullying" or "work place bullying" etc.

Bullying is one of several ways some people seek to promote their social status with others. Go watch a tribe of chimps or gorillas. Bullying is probably in our DNA.

Anyone noticed how since combine harvesters put millions of agricultural workers out of work in the 1930's, we've had to develop professions like psychologists, counsellors etc to deal with "internet bullying" or "work place bullying" etc.

This is an amazing sentence. I could spend the rest of my life studying it.

hmm are you suggesting that all the agricultural workers became pyschologists/sociologists, thereby creating, in essence, a supply-side push towards greater introspection leading to the current pc-fascist dystopia?

Interesting theory pls elaborate

Anyone noticed how since combine harvesters put millions of agricultural workers out of work in the 1930's, we've had to develop professions like psychologists, counsellors etc to deal with "internet bullying" or "work place bullying" etc.

fucking hell

guys pls we're working through the implications here

nooooo, we need to study this rhetorical specimen in isolation -- no elaboration pls

fuck's sake i knew it, ye've scared it off, now what'm i gonna do til sleep comes?

a troll obv

i probably had an interesting case wrt bullying and sports. without going into detail, i got it pretty bad when i was younger and kind of used sports - which i was good at - to gain acceptance with the people who bullied me. as i've gotten a little older i've kind of come to realize that when i was young i used sports and the friends i made through them as a substitute for actual meaningful relationships, which probably contributed to my mild social anxiety i've still got even now

second part sort of an xp to hurting

i think rather the people unemployed because of the invention of combine harvesters got mad and turned their attention to being bullies

d'you know what tho, iirc my early posting style was not unlike that, only more so. i'm all for winkling the meat out of the shell in these cases- if nothing else the dead husk can make a necklace ornament

"a troll obv"

I'm no troll.

But, perhaps this discussion belongs in it's own thread.

'from field to experts in their field:a lava lamp exoloration of the travails of the migrant-worker cum pyschoanalyst- a study in two parts'

So maybe Bauhaus were onto something, opining as they did about being bored in the flat field.

Also this exchange is worth the price of admission:

Is this what bullying does to people?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:20 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
whatever keeps me out of nuvvieworld homie

― LeCoq (LeCoq), Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:26 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
???

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:26 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
DUDE YOU LIVE TEN MINUTES AWAY FROM IT act like you know

― LeCoq (LeCoq), Wednesday, February 1, 2006 12:28 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"Interesting theory pls elaborate"

I recently worked for a government department responsible for child protection issues. The dominant professional fields in that department were psychology and social work.

I found some cutting edge research that suggests that people become paedophiles as a result of organic frontal lobe injury. They lose inhibitions.

The reaction from the psychologists and counsellors in my Department to my discovery got me thinking. The rise of these disciplines roughly coincides with mechanised agriculture putting millions out of work.

But, this is very much off topic.

pretty sure the rise in occupational therapy, study of work et al comes out of fred taylor's successful expounding of his theories of work & at least in part from the findings of eg the hawthorne studies dealing with the effects of observation on the subject but i beg you regardless of this please but please let us know more of your discoveries on the frontal lobe and the dramatic response from these pampered buffoons

i haven't worked for a government department recently but Lava lamp is talking horseshit basically. that's as far as i'm prepared to engage with you son, so don't bother cranking the troll dynamo.

i don't know if you realise, btw, just how much your last post makes you sound like a supervillain just waiting for the nuclear goo to hit and grant you the powers you need.

it was THEN i realised, batman, that the FRONTAL LOBE held the SECRETS TO UNLIMITED POWER HAHAHAHAHA

i found some cutting edge research recently that suggests that people become misanthropes cos everybody they know thinks they're a wanker

It was nothing radical - neuroscience seemed to be on the verge of confirming that many paedophiles were untreatable by any of the social science disciplines - it was an organic problem.

The reaction of my colleagues was to totally discredit the source of this information and completely refute its finding without any interest at all in the content.

I can't say much more - some level of confidentiality still applies.

<3

If you mean refute when you say it, then what's the problem?

"i found some cutting edge research recently that suggests that people become misanthropes cos everybody they know thinks they're a wanker"

And you post this in a thread about bullying?

Oh the irony!!

"If you mean refute when you say it, then what's the problem?"

They wouldn't read it.

So you didn't mean refute, then?

don't mind nv he's got an enormous frontal lobe, quite touchy about it really.

I'd touch his enormous frontal lobe, fnarrrrr.

"So you didn't mean refute, then?"

They refuted it without reading it.

Does that make sense?

that's really, really inappropriate

xp was it written, and please i assure you i ask without prejudice, was it written in crayon and/or on toilet paper?

because these pseudofrauds are all about the presentation, even when the work is very serious and important

pseudofreuds

THAT WAS THE JOKE

this is a big xp to Hurting's post: it's cool that you figured out the key to your own experience w/ bullying, but how is that information supposed to be applicable to dealing with other people irl

like, even if it is somehow true (in maybe 1 out of every 50 cases) probably the last thing you should say to a bullying victim is "well, have you ever considered the possibility that you deserved it?"

i mean, honestly

i injured my frontal lobe forgive me

"So you didn't mean refute, then?"

They refuted it without reading it.

Does that make sense?

― Lava lamp, Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:59 AM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

re·fute   [ri-fyoot]
verb (used with object), -fut·ed, -fut·ing.
1. to prove to be false or erroneous, as an opinion or charge.
2. to prove (a person) to be in error.

If they have _proved it wrong_, even if it is without reading it, then what is the problem?

fute, ject, coil, does it really matter?

"If they have _proved it wrong_, even if it is without reading it, then what is the problem?"

The standard of proof they employed.

Look, I can play semantics with you all day long, if that is your wish.

I've got a quiet day at work.

aha, now i *know* there's a thread for that

Yay! I like playing semantics. If you meant 'refute' when you said it, then they have conclusively proved it wrong. You could just say 'oh shit, yeah, I didn't mean refute, I meant something else', but nooooooo.

jeez emil.y it's like you can't see the big picture here i mean FRONTAL LOBES people

i man, think of the possibilities! the iphone app alone's gotta be a million-seller

Maybe what the research showed is actually that they had enormous frontal LOEBS?

http://leesmi.globat.com/images/cd/l/LisaLoeb_Stay_743212125221_1.jpg

corny but i irl loled

Life's not perfect. Deal with it or moan all your life.

Dealing with it is, strictly speaking, good advice.

But I'm afraid you didn't mean it in the simple sense of making the effort required to overcome the trauma of being bullied. Rather it looks to me as if you meant it in the dismissive and belittling sense, as if "dealing with it" were some sort of easy remedy, a mere decision to stop feeling traumatized -- the sort of decision you might make in the course of tying your shoes, such as "today's the day I get over being bullied". Then some appropriate swelling background music plays, you go out for a brief invigorating run and from then on your problem is solved.

To which the only appropriate response would be: get bent.

*drops mug*

"Yay! I like playing semantics. If you meant 'refute' when you said it, then they have conclusively proved it wrong. You could just say 'oh shit, yeah, I didn't mean refute, I meant something else', but nooooooo."

In their minds, they refuted it, in my mind, they did so on very flimsy grounds.

Is you a bit thick?

em isn't it like 3am GMT? You really love playing semantics.

not in canberra

this thread is now bigger than the bullying issue, i wouldn't be surprised if it were to be taped off by shady big science goons trying to stamp out the lisa loebs breakthrough

WHY ARE THE GOVTS WANT US ALL TO BE PAEDOS

ah I was saying em as short for emil.y, just sowing confusion xp

In their minds, they refuted it, in my mind, they did so on very flimsy grounds.

Is you a bit thick?

― Lava lamp, Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:21 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No, but I'm clearly pedantic. If that was what you meant, that was what you should have said. You didn't say it. Therefore, for the historical record, as we document the unravelling of this important find, I asked you to clarify.

em isn't it like 3am GMT? You really love playing semantics.

― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:22 AM (36 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

3.24, and yes I do.

this looks to me like a long term plan hatched by disenfranchised cotton workers in the 30's to slowly increase the level of paedophile urges in the general population over 80 years in order to keep the market for controversially sexy kids' clothing booming

Jesus, just imagine- they would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for lava lamp's loeb theory.

3:24 otm

"If that was what you meant, that was what you should have said."

It's what I fucking did say:

"The reaction of my colleagues was to totally discredit the source of this information and completely refute its finding without any interest at all in the content."

lava lamp, pls tell me you like football

Does Subuteo count?

pretty sure it's subbuteo, can we have a long argument over the correct spelling pls?

Lava lamp, you meant to say "dispute", not "refute". Is that clearer now?

I kinda love the idea that society collectively invents new professions as old professions peel off. Like, when we switch from hunter/gatherer to agricultural societies, we suddenly have enough food w/ fewer workers that we can support ppl becoming shamans + politicians + artists and shit. When we switch from agricultural to industrial, we suddenly have enough food w/ fewer workers that we can support ppl becoming psychologists + social workers. I don't think this means that the new professions are worthless, tho. Or somehow fake. They're just awesome new human stuff. I dig it.

Fuck.

Times were simpler when we all just chaffed the wheat.

If by simpler you mean boring-er.

pretty sure it's subbuteo, can we have a long argument over the correct spelling pls?

― boxall, Monday, January 23, 2012 9:34 PM (3 minutes ago)

Only if we add comma splices to the mix.

this is the very worst of ilx imo

here we have a genuine scientist wunderkind, cast aside and ill-used by a corrupt system, bringing his battered pride and precious motherloeb of knowledge and world-changing peadobusting information to us in order that we may spread the word, the news, that THE GOVT AND BIG SCIENCE WANT YOU TO BE A PAEDOPHILE TO SELL KIDDIE LINGERIE and what, we're here picking holes in his grammar?

I don't think this means that the new professions are worthless, tho.

we are all servicers now

"we suddenly have enough food w/ fewer workers that we can support ppl becoming psychologists + social workers. I don't think this means that the new professions are worthless, tho. Or somehow fake. They're just awesome new human stuff. I dig it."

Beautiful stuff.

They are the modern day shamans.

I refudiate that.

zing! (xps)

mordy- in economic terms it's called schumpeterian destructive cycle iirc, can't remember did anyone draw sociological conclusions from it though

Cool stuff! Also, we're obviously in crisis atm since we're eliminating jobs as we move into new paradigm but haven't invented new paradigm yet.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Blue_lava_lamp.jpg/140px-Blue_lava_lamp.jpg

btw there's nothing that ensures that new professions will outpace productivity gains forever

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/lava-lamp-2.jpg

"here we have a genuine scientist wunderkind, cast aside and ill-used by a corrupt system, bringing his battered pride and precious motherloeb of knowledge and world-changing peadobusting information to us in order that we may spread the word, the news, that THE GOVT AND BIG SCIENCE WANT YOU TO BE A PAEDOPHILE TO SELL KIDDIE LINGERIE and what, we're here picking holes in his grammar?"

TF, you started this whole expansion:

"pretty sure the rise in occupational therapy, study of work et al comes out of fred taylor's successful expounding of his theories of work & at least in part from the findings of eg the hawthorne studies dealing with the effects of observation on the subject but i beg you regardless of this please but please let us know more of your discoveries on the frontal lobe and the dramatic response from these pampered buffoons"

You, sir, are a scoundrel and a rotter.

xp that's basically Marx' theory of technology tho xxp

http://www.google-store.com/images/GO0027.jpg

I used to be totally sold on that theory fwiw, but these days I feel optimistic about our ability to keep inventing new shit forever

https://nflbook.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/fred-taylor.jpg

the new paradigm is prob going to be nothing more than another, less thinly-veiled, layer of indolence disguised as production covering a lifestyle of consumption that keeps the developing world drones busy

that's only iirc, i was playing soduko down the back of that class tbh

i am, tbf, a scoundrel, a rotter and more besides

soduko was a puzzle game i invented but those bastardly inexpressive orientals nabbed it, switched round a letter or two and made good with all the dough

Robin Hanson says we'll one day be living at substinance levels across the stars. Or as memes.

Question: Is Fermi's paradox proof that we're in a simulation?

Some rotten weak-willed public sevant iirc xps

Get those poor back to the fields and stop gcounseling free counseling them for their pedophilia imo

Wow made a hash of that post thanks for nothing iPad.

no it's proof that some smartarse always asks a question the teacher can't answer

Teacher = God?

what's the difference between living in a simulation and not living in simulation, when it comes down to it

soylent green is made outta sheeple

if u eat the red pill + it's not a simulation u prbably gonna get fucked up and maybe have to call in sick t work in morning?

teacher = limits of human knowledge (pre frontal loeb discovery, natch)

what's the difference between living in a simulation and not living in simulation, when it comes down to it

the texture?

observation from an outside source

back to hawthorne, see

teaky,

Look like we need to meet up to settle once and for all who can piss the farthest up the wall.

We may as well compare sizes while we're at it.

frontal loeb sizes?

lava lamp may not be a troll, but he has all the right chops

i

i don't like you that way

Look like we need to meet up to settle once and for all who can piss the farthest up the wall.

reads like a novice trying desperately to get his balance back on a troll that has rapidly spiraled out of his control tbh

tbrr i'm just night shift challop operator, gmt zone. we wouldn't even wake eg tracer hand or similar unless shit got outta hand, i mean god rest him but tombot wouldn't even get an email after the fact, this is third maybe fourth grade cleanup. I only brought nv in for the look.

sup guys

what's the difference between living in a simulation and not living in simulation, when it comes down to it

― iatee, Monday, January 23, 2012 10:52 PM (11 minutes ago)

*spins top*

*debates above post fervently w/ stoner friends*

michael crichton rip, 'the loebster people' coulda been his best work imo

"reads like a novice trying desperately to get his balance back on a troll that has rapidly spiraled out of his control tbh"

Whatever.

Your opinion, man.

No, u. dude.

ok we're down to shirts-off chest slapping now, this is what they came to see here tonight gene

lava lamp is other lamp's evil twin y/n

http://i.imgur.com/hfR6M.jpg

j bateman is that you

lava lamp reads kinda like a bored latebloomer imo

really want to see j bridges play opposite kristofferson btw

yo guys i hope u don't mind but i got bored

The one time I actually heard someone irl say "well, whatever, that's just your opinion, man" in complete fucking earnest, it was in fact an appropriate and well-deserved iceburn

nah it's cool mordy he's not coming up with any more dubious scientific facts I'm bored too

everything is opinion, it's a tiresome argument in a tiresome universe

/jaded

"lava lamp reads kinda like a bored latebloomer imo"

Jackpot!!! Fucking dull day at work.

Anyway, I first said that bullying is probably in our DNA, and some people use it in social interactions to gain status with others.

To the responses since then, I rest my case.

To the OP, bullying is probably an inevitable feature of a social life, deal with it.

you do disgust with modernity up there with the best imo <3

bullying is probably an inevitable feature of a social life

So is lying. I mean, both are such an obvious tactics that they are discovered by 3 year olds. But, as I pointed out, just saying "deal with it" as if that said anything of substance or value, is moronically unhelpful.

Lava lamp = not as good as banaka.

(Also, yeah, the people saying "deal with it" in this thread and meaning it are pretty awful human beings. But I'm not getting into a proper discussion on this thread, fuck no.)

"the people saying "deal with it" in this thread and meaning it are pretty awful human beings."

Hand on heart, have you never bullied nor done something atrocious to another human being?

Or have you, at times, been a pretty awful human being to others?

What meme do you people post for blatant hypocrisy?

em isn't it like 3am GMT? You really love playing semantics.

― tinker tailor soldier sb (silby), Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:22 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

not in canberra

― mazzy deathstarr (electricsound), Tuesday, January 24, 2012 2:23 PM

http://www.memorygongs.com/bender_hmmsml.jpg

This guy sounds like a 14 year old neckbeard-in-training coming up with Theories of Life after learning about evolution in high school biology.

strange that he would dismiss the "social science" field of psychology while making really childish appeals to evo psych and neuroscience.

What meme do you people post for blatant hypocrisy?

Well, we're slowly homing in on your maturity level.

'deal with it' is just shorthand for 'sorry, this is a problem probably best handled by the individual' or maybe 'not in the current context', tho?

I mean yeah it sounds brutal and uncaring, but the core message, even if it's to be delivered over several sessions or by an immensely caring support network, is still going to be 'deal with it', right?

i don't know that i'd throw away evo psych with the bathwater but it's an ill-used concept 9 arguments from 10

"This guy sounds like a 14 year old neckbeard-in-training coming up with Theories of Life after learning about evolution in high school biology."

Sorry.

I'll change tact to clique driven categorisation of everything.

tack, sailing term

not even sure what you mean by "clique driven"

which should be hyphenated btw english love it or leave it

iirc, now i'm v unsure tho, it's 4.38

i think he means that instead of socio-biological explanations of bullying he'll resort to using the pop culture language of cliques (cool kids, nerds, etc)

kinda wishing i had said idiom + not language in previous post for maximum clarity of thought

the wink-and-elbow language of delight iirc

Anyone noticed how since combine harvesters put millions of agricultural workers out of work in the 1930's, we've had to develop professions like psychologists...

Perhaps the following ACTUAL FACT might be relevant to addressing the worth of LL's argument:

"The combine was invented in the United States by Hiram Moore in 1834, and early versions were pulled by horse or mule teams."

So, somehow or other the combine was around for almost a century before **poof!** it suddenly evaporated millions of jobs that it had been unable to evaporate in any of the preceding decades of its existance. Might I ask how this came to happen?

gloebalisation

"Anyone noticed how since combine harvesters put millions of agricultural workers out of work in the 1930's, we've had to develop professions like psychologists...

Perhaps the following ACTUAL FACT might be relevant to addressing the worth of LL's argument:

"The combine was invented in the United States by Hiram Moore in 1834, and early versions were pulled by horse or mule teams."

So, somehow or other the combine was around for almost a century before **poof!** it suddenly evaporated millions of jobs that it had been unable to evaporate in any of the preceding decades of its existance. Might I ask how this came to happen?"

OK, you've got me, I am a troll.

NO WAI

Or maybe just a person with a very poorly calibrated estimate of their capabilities. It happens.

woah, what happens next?

wait wasn't it latebloomer?

this thread makes me feel like I'm stoned

It's the dancing crowd and the pulsating lights. They'll do it every time.

damn were you all bored tonight

No. it's the medication.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2kTp6UFjIak/Ti3OycIKAWI/AAAAAAAABfE/AQueeSC6HMQ/s1600/whats-going-on-here.jpg

man what kind of meds are you taking that turn you into a really incompetent troll on an internet message board xp

iatee otm

"Or maybe just a person with a very poorly calibrated estimate of their capabilities. It happens."

Please please please, tell me the measure against which we need to calibrate?

|<-------------- this one ----------------->|

I rate you a worse troll than newgod, he broke ilx for two months what have you ever done

That's just my size!!

Seriously, I think you will find that mechanised agriculture did not become widespread enough to lead to significant displacement of the labour force until the first decades of the 20th century.

I'm not a troll after all.

Please please please

Now you just sound desperate.

idk 'mechanization' is a moving target

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure

as more and more jobs are replaced by computers will more and more americans become full-time internet trolls?

as more and more jobs are replaced by computers will more and more americans become full-time internet trolls?

see? this is the new creative economy our bright minds at ilx are hard at work innovating

Am I right to be really confused by the turn this thread's taken?

bigger question: will computers be able to troll better than humans?

I'm not a troll after all.

Come clean. Are you Newt Gingrich?

btw, the diesel engine is what you want to look at to power this grandiose theory of yours.

"Now you just sound desperate."

I just want you all to like me and think I'm really clever.

xxp no bc whenever they'd try to troll they'd just get smugly self-satisfied about shit like, "yo humans guess what u can't beat us at chess," and "we even kicked ur ass at jeopardy," and then we'd always find them out and be able to be like, "fuck u computers humans are still kings of trolling," and then computers are like, ":'( what is it to love?"

"the people saying "deal with it" in this thread and meaning it are pretty awful human beings."

Hand on heart, have you never bullied nor done something atrocious to another human being?

Or have you, at times, been a pretty awful human being to others?

What meme do you people post for blatant hypocrisy?

― Lava lamp, Monday, January 23, 2012 11:30 PM Bookmark

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gUJD38k8H54/To5khlABJ3I/AAAAAAAAAr8/ICNtm5tmGPM/s400/Troll.JPG

People who were bullied:

http://machimon.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/moveon1.jpg

or

http://www.designformankind.com/images/2009/09/picture_2.png

As of the 1920 census, the urban:rural ratio of the US population tipped to 51:49. Urban population growth exceeded rural population growth nearly every decade since the first US census in 1790. cite (pdf)

this is a big xp to Hurting's post: it's cool that you figured out the key to your own experience w/ bullying, but how is that information supposed to be applicable to dealing with other people irl

like, even if it is somehow true (in maybe 1 out of every 50 cases) probably the last thing you should say to a bullying victim is "well, have you ever considered the possibility that you deserved it?"

― Bruce K. Tedesco (zachlyon), Tuesday, 24 January 2012 03:04 (2 hours ago) Permalink

Big xpost back: NO, "the possibility that you deserved it" is not what I'm saying at all! "Deserve" is laden with all kinds of horrible feelings about being inherently bad or defective, and that's exactly what I'm saying you eventually need to work to get past.

But it can be liberating to be able to step back from your childhood and say (1) oh, I see what was going on there, and (2) that's not me, it's a circumstance I was in in childhood. There may not have been anything about it that was within your power to change at the time. There CERTAINLY are things within your power to do now, and it's a shame to embrace some kind of pervasive sense of lifelong victimhood rather than doing those things.

"As of the 1920 census, the urban:rural ratio of the US population tipped to 51:49. Urban population growth exceeded rural population growth nearly every decade since the first US census in 1790. "

Oh shit, I'm a troll again.

WHAT IS YOU HOLLERIN BOUT, HOLMES

i hereby award the loebel peace prize to lava lamp, for his groundbreaking "deal with it" technique

he also gets all the science ones, for obvious reasons

~so multidisciplinary~

wait didn't whiney invent the deal with it technique?

dot gif

real talk here, "deal with it" so much easier to understand and implement than the entire practice of clinical psychotherapy, blows my mind really

"real talk here, "deal with it" so much easier to understand and implement than the entire practice of clinical psychotherapy, blows my mind really"

My beef is with psychology and counselling professions.

Chalk and cheese.

what do you think those words mean?

no idea what's going on in here, BUT:
I was badly bullied for about three years. I had a block in my mind that I couldn't hit another person and that read as GIANT PUSSY to 12/13/14 year old boys. This led to me being kicked around and harassed. I used to have to take Tums before getting on the bus because i was queasy all the fucking time. Somewhere late in seventh grade, some kids were fucking with me and one kid spat at me and hit me in the face. I completely lost my shit, years of pent up anger came flying out and i threw myself bodily at him. After that, I was "the crazy guy" and they quit fucking with me. I got in several fights after that; pretty much stopped in college i guess.
i still have severe fight/flight response when i'm in a stressful situation where I don't feel like i'm in control. It's embarrassing at board meetings. I think i'm the only one who's aware that i'm just a slight push away from punching a seventy year old guy in the face. But I am!

Hurting: what 'things' are you talking about exactly? like, things to deal with past bullying or things to prevent present bullying?

my thoughts on the matter: everyone is different, sometimes bullying is legitimately traumatic, some people best deal with it by seeking attention and pity, and i don't think that's the worst thing in the world. there is a point, as a friend of the person, where i think you have the right to them that they're stressing you out and you won't talk to them about it until they seek professional post-agricultural help.

"Move on" and "deal with it" are kind of short hand descriptions for the process of controlling how enviromental stimuli trigger memories of past trauma.

It all happens in a micro second, so be quick. You can't always talk it through with a bff or counsellor.

Call me a bastard, but that's how it is.

those weren't the words I meant but it's OK I'm going to bed now like all right-thinking americans

so just making sure i am caught up here, pedophilia and bullying are Eli Whitneys fault?

join the dots maaaayynne join the dots

its fun to learn

so anyway i'm off to punch the first fucker i see with a bulging forehead

self-perpetuating hell for that poor bastard eh

as a determinist i don't feel i have any choice

copout, get over it

i just wanna reap corn, man

lisa 'left-lobe' loebez

ILX, lobe it or leave it

This derail is just a cover-up

I KNOW

sometimes i feel like i'm taking crazy pills here

well, full disclosure, sometimes i feel like the crazy pills that i'm actually taking aren't the right dosage

I wish I could afford to send you a trophy btw deems

aw, ty but my heart's all a-trophy as it is

http://www.bambootrading.com/600/a613.jpg

absolutely gutted i've not used lisa 'left-loeb' loebez as a display name

Your current dn is bringing the lols here tbf.

Left-Eye joeks make me sad tbh :(

ok well i'll defer to yr delicate sensibilities

in other news, Lava Lamp is a retard

Loeba Lamp

ok, so my turn. I was an easy target for bullies growing up. Extremely skinny with a high metabolism (I was 135 pounds when I left high school...and six feet tall), and in middle school, I had bad acne, braces, and I was one of the smartest dudes in class, so I was an easy target.

All things considered, I didn't get it anywhere near as bad as other kids did (ie, I didn't get physically abused, mostly just verbally). I even got harassed in Sunday school class -- it was so bad that I had to wait 5 minutes outside the door before I had the courage to enter because I knew what was coming. It probably lasted from age 11 to 17. Around age 16, my acne was gone, braces gone, and people started to think I was alright. By then, though, I was a loner who kind of kept to himself and only had 3-4 friends. By senior year, the idea of a 'close friend' was alien to me, so when I actually finally made really close pals, I was really crushed when I was moving away to go to college, and became a hermit for a year after I left home.

Over the next ten years, I slowly learned to adjust and was able to overcome much of what had happened in the past, but I've always felt like I'm developmentally a few years behind my age. In terms of mental ability my faculties are all there, but emotionally I'm somewhat stunted.

That doesn't mean I still give credence to or think about specific things that happened in the past, which I've mostly forgotten, but it is sort of like a collective imprint in the back of my mind because it happened during my (for lack of a better term) "formative years". It's likely the reason that I second guess myself all the time and often struggle to assert myself.

To some degree though...I think there are other reasons for this, because my brother got teased just as badly as me growing up, and now dude is a ladie's man.

"Deal with it" doesn't even enter the equation, though. I don't wake up at night screaming in a cold sweat remembering the time some pointy nosed kid called me a "faggot", I barely remember what even happened anymore, but it did cause me to leave high school thinking I sucked and took me many years to get to the point where I could function like other people.

"in other news, Lava Lamp is a retard"

I limp off, humbled and bruised by your wit.

deal with it bro

not interested in you narrating your activities sarcastically, bruh xpost

In related news, maybe we can stop using the word retarded in a thread about verbal abuse. Morons.

where does the irony begin and end? woozy

Does anyone want to hear my theory about fluorodisation and the rise of Walmart?

No.

yes

yes x100

deems & mordy otm

just sayin i was all day on ilx yesterday and there was about twenty posts so lava lamp 4 presidetn imo

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23288_382990797517_9583_n.jpg
"No times a thousand... No comebacks!"

Who knows why Lava lamp chose this thread to troll, maybe he's having a hard time dealing with his own past. Shit that happens to you as a kid obviously affects your development since it forms the way you view yourself and the world ... you have no other frame of reference as a kid.

Never got bullied per se ... was a pretty weird kid and all, but I was funny and mean, so anyone who tried would get a crowd of people laughing at them when I'd make fun of them, so the trend never started. I also fought people who messed with me, so I guess I got some rep there. Had horrible taste in friends, though, since my home life wasn't the best, so I had some awful experiences in and out of school that made me hate people for a pretty long time. Also feeling/being treated like an outsider for being "different" can skew your whole perception of the world when you're first starting out.

Anyway, all this shit creates extra hurdles a person has to jump over just to get to normal, and life's hard enough as it is. The only way to survive is to get over it, imo, but telling people "just get over it" totally ignores the work involved, and is a downright obnoxious thing to say.

back on track- i was bullied at school, rarely physically, rarely too badly (depending on the school/town tbf), some guy mentioned my mum once and three other lads got to him before i did, i had friends and brothers and others were getting worse so in my case it was easy enough to get over

I was bullied at school, frequently physically. Never was hospitalised but there were a few times that came close. My solution was to retaliate by being mean and verbally aggressive. Probably resulted in more beatings, but the bullies got the message that they weren't going to get their jollies out of me. One guy would always beat me up when I was standing in a corridor waiting to go into class. So I started insulting his family while he was hitting me. He'd be punching me and I'd be saying "Your dad's gay, your mum's a slag". After a while I started to get to him with this psychological warfare. I remember possibly the last time he tried beating me up, he was hitting me, and I was practically on the floor, but tears were streaming down his face. So eventually he got the hint that even though he could beat the piss out of me, I could shred his soul with steel hooks.

serious question: has there ever been a student who didn't have at least one experience of being bullied?

cue 1100 post thread about you using offensive terms like that vs the physical abuse etc

The only way to survive is to get over it, imo, but telling people "just get over it" totally ignores the work involved, and is a downright obnoxious thing to say.

OTM.

I had it really bad in elementary school and middle school to the point where I was scared to take the bus and would come home crying almost every day. Parents were called, meetings were had and it was all fairly awful and humiliating. I think bullies target kids who they know will take it to heart. It bothered me and I wasn't very good at pretending that it didn't so I got it extra bad.

I would be lying if I said that it didn't have an enormous effect on my development and who I am as an adult. I was a chubby smart kid with braces and glasses and lot of the shit from other kids was directed at my appearance/weight and I'm fairly certain it's the root of why I have a lot of issues with those things today and why no matter what I look like/how much I might weigh at any given time, I have a really difficult time considering myself attractive and not constantly criticizing myself. Also, I think the effects of the bullying can still be seen in my overwhelming need for people to like me. idk. On the other, if there's anything positive to be found in the experience, I think it probably helped make me a fairly understanding and empathetic person.

Anyway - I guess the details aren't really what's important I do think that sometimes this stuff can be extremely difficult (near impossible in some ways considering that it often happens at an age when you're personality is being shaped/developed) and think the get over it people are pretty much idiotic.

xp i think everyone thinks they were 'bullied' but idk there's probably a good range of obliviousness included there

serious question: has there ever been a student who didn't have at least one experience of being bullied?

― Mordy, Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:18 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Maybe not but I think there's an enormous difference between a kid who has a couple of instances and one who is essentially picked on relentlessly for years.

When I joined lolmyspace years ago a bunch of people from elementary/middle school friended me up. One night this girl wrote me an unsolicited message about how cool and beautiful I seemed and that she was glad I seemed to be doing so well. She then apologized for being so awful to me in middle school and said she'd felt bad about it for years. I started crying as I read it because if anything the fact that this random person remembered it sort of validated my memories of the experience and made me realize that maybe it was actually *that* bad.

i was speccy and bright so i'm sure i got some shit but there were def kids below me on the pecking order and i feel like my school experience was a bit of receiving abuse and a bit of dishing abuse and it was ok on the whole. got into a fight with one of the big dogs in our year one time (over "politics" lol) and when we both got taken into the head's office and i didn't complain or blame then there was a reasonable respect there afterwards.

friend at school once told me that when i told people to fuck off and die it actually made them wanna comply so yay weird intensity + class clowning can get you thru childhood

For sure there are different levels of bullying, and I don't mean to minimize anyone's experiences. But I do think that realizing that childhood is hard for people in a lot of different ways and no one escapes unscathed can be helpful in reducing the kind of implicit alienation that bullying fosters. Everyone feels alienated and disliked and picked on and criticized and even loathed at one time or another.

Being scarred by bullying is bullshit. These people are playing eternal victim and, at least part of them, is enjoying it. Or feeling safe in it. Someone in their twenties is certainly mature enough to make the decision not to be a victim anymore. Whether it’s bullying or an alcoholic mom or a punch happy dad, a cheating boyfriend/girlfriend etc, it’s really as easy as relegating the past to the past (no, not repressing) and dealing with yourself and your life in the present. Is pity really so attractive that people are willing to waste their lives for it?

Anyway, people who are just determined to carry this shite around with them and scrape up all the pity points they can are usually insanely boring, non-stop talkers and hypochondriacs to boot. Its really hard for me to feel any empathy at all except in the sense that they really may not realize its up to them to be OK with themselves.

― sunny successor (katharine), Tuesday, 31 January 2006 15:26 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This remains one of the most hateful, idiotic posts I've ever seen on ILX, which takes some doing.

pretty hyperbolic but with big chunks of otm imo. maybe we shd do a separate thread to ponder victimhood tho.

x-post - Yeah, definitely.

I also think that big parts of that post are OTM but it's also pretty dismissive and insensitive.

I think that post is pretty insensitive. One thing though that I think people respond to when they hear bullying narratives is that a very common, universal, historical experience often gets reduced to the particulars and subjectivity of the narrator. When the narrative ends with, "I've been traumatized by those events ever since," instead of, "Then I got a little older and learned how to be more savvy and gained some social competence," there is maybe a sense that these events aren't being properly contextualized. Compared to other traumatizing events in childhood (and I appreciated this more when I discovered in Elementary School that the mother of a bully had passed away which triggered his behavior) bullying is pretty small stuff. Sure, for a few years (from 3rd through 8th grade actually so more than a few years) I hated going to school and only had one or two friends and cried sometimes when I was teased. I also got to go home to loving parents and lead a rich + privileged life in many many other ways and to look back and say that bullying defined my childhood instead of all the positive stuff that happened during my childhood would be a really shitty way of looking at my life.

nb I understand that for some children being bullied is so traumatic that I probably shouldn't even try to draw parallels, and if you don't have a loving home and other things going for you, bullying could just be the straw that breaks the camel's back, etc, etc.

Is pity really so attractive that people are willing to waste their lives for it?

I think this is the important question to dig into from that post.

neanderthal otm i dunno i didn't have it that bad but was generally left going into highschool with the feeling that there was something wrong with me.

i sort of retreated hardcore from everyone and just made no impression and it wasn't an issue anymore because i just floated like a ghost through the place. and when people talk about, like, getting in touch with highschool friends. i kind of respect myself for getting myself through it by myself but also kind of wonder what it would have been like to go to a HIGHSCHOOL PARTY and having inside jokes to put under your yearbook picture instead of staying home and listening to records and reading ilx. i have lots of good memories but none of them are typical highschool things and i'm happy bout that shit too.

but i got respect for dudes that got it bad because. fuck. i dunno, shit gets pretty grim in those situations and there's just about nobody to really properly turn to. so i can't really get down with people saying being scared of bullying is bullshit.

what's the difference between moving on and dwelling

fwiw the bullying for me was never anything close to bad enough that school still wasn't a haven from being at fuckin home so

i wouldn't pretend that bullying can't have a devastating impact on people, i know that bullied children have committed suicide. i do think victiming is a mind set or a strategy for some people too tho. the latter never excuses the former, but i don't think our formative experiences are all necessarily formative of the adults we become. childhood interactions are too rich and strange to reduce to simple narratives, like Mordy said.

Fuck being at school, boring as fuck (xp)

I think it's possible for someone to grow up and be a normal functioning socially savvy adult while still recognizing that certain experiences may have been traumatic and have long-lasting effects. I mean - I'm pretty well-adjusted (well, mostly) and I think most people who know me irl would be pretty surprised to find out that I had such a rough time but if I'd be lying through my teeth if I said that having gone through all that didn't still effect me in some ways today. It's not like I lie in bed at night crying about this shit but if I examine my motivations for doing certain things and some patterns of behavior I see in myself I'm pretty sure there's prob a fairly direct link there.

btw, is there any truth in my feeling that American schools seem to tolerate bullying to a much higher degree than British ones (even tho British schools can be totally ineffective at dealing with it)?

Its a five year old post but I think it grandly oversimplifies things...plenty of people don't fit the neat model of cherishing misery and still struggle.

I've known my share of drama queens and generally with them, they generally recall bullying everywhere, even where it doesn't exist. It 's a problem more associated with vanity as opposed to any gross overreaction to negative stimuli. I don't think they fit in this group.

btw, is there any truth in my feeling that American schools seem to tolerate bullying to a much higher degree than British ones (even tho British schools can be totally ineffective at dealing with it)?

^ Hmmmmmmmm, I don't remember much bullying of anyone going on during my school years tbh.

Think I got 'bullied' at school for a couple of terms - by people who were nominally my friends and some of whom were my friends afterwards.

my impression was that bullying was worse in england? but my impression on england is mostly based on the smiths and movies I've seen.

omg u did not just ostracise drama queens from this entire discussion u brute

Well, looking at the OP, they're talking about someone who shares details about being bullied in school with their coworkers without it being appropriate or contextually relevant. I don't know why you would offer that information like that unless you were trying to elicit pity from colleagues? It's one thing to discuss it on a relevant ILX thread, or commiserate with a good friend, but... ya know?

I had it really, really bad too. I've posted a lot about it here. I don't feel bad about myself – or proud of myself – with regard to my 'getting over it' or 'still suffering' or 'victimhood' or whatever. As a matter of fact, I don't really have an emotional engagement with a bunch of crappy crap that happened in the first part of my life. But I do remember it, in a very stark and denatured way, and I kind of ... recite it to myself sometimes? I enjoy telling the story; enjoy the bullying story as a not-very-believable (but nevertheless true) narrative and probable influence on my behavior/opinions. I don't know what, if anything, that means.

What I'm left with is a kind of egregious self-image, sort of a low-level perpetual outsider complex. It doesn't really have a lot of impact on my life, now (that I know of), but the effect of social ill-ease is probably lurking somewhere deep in my psyche.

i feel pretty lucky. my high school's vice principal was some kind of neuvo-hardass who instituted a zero-tolerance anti-bullying policy a couple years before i got there. a friend's older sister was in HS in the years before and got it viciously bad from a very small-town heathers-like crew. of course there was a pecking order and there was always some beef or whatever but on the whole it was pretty chill and everyone either got along or left alone.

stories like what people are telling here about fistfights in the halls and that kind of thing seems so alien to me.

some kids probably got it pretty bad in unseen ways tho, esp about class lines. this was/is a very prim and odd little town

tho as i write this i do remember a long stretch where two of my 'friends' -- twins as it happens -- decided i'd wronged them for some reason in 8th grade and did what they could to make life horrible for me in a bunch of petty ways. it was really frustrating. i don't remember how it ended or why.

but my impression on england is mostly based on the smiths and movies I've seen.

lol whereas my impression is based on the number of American movies and shows that seem to shrug and smirk about school and family bullying. the Smiths can be safely ignored and i can't think of many British movies with bullying except in public schools which is also lol

x-posts

I didn't read the OP until just now. That does seem pretty weird imo.

It's one thing to discuss it on a relevant ILX thread, or commiserate with a good friend, but... ya know?

Yeah, agreed. If I ever talk about it irl it's either in relation to some other piece of a conversation or because I actually had some p funny experiences along the way too. I'd never just bring it up with randos at work.

Like maybe for a lot of bullied kids, there's a kind of release in emotional exhibitionism. A bullied target doesn't have a voice - that's really the etiology of the misery - and latterday honesty and oversharing and victimhood are kind of a way of fighting against the earlier feeling.

all i can think of is the rugby scene in life of brian

xps

My impression of British schools is that they are full of buggery.

I faced a lot of this at church and at school. In the past couple of months, three different people I grew up with told me they left the church I grew up in because of how I was treated at seminary or at church. I know this makes me seem like an acrimonious crazoid, but that unforeseen side effect makes me really satisfied.

There's also the fact that some (many/most?) bullied kids were bullies themselves, in some small way. For instance, there are a lot of people who talk about being bullied for being smart. But in my experience as a teacher, I've rarely (if ever) seen anybody bullied for their intellect, but frequently seen kids bullied for being a know-it-all, or wielding their higher (IQ) worthiness like a blunt instrument.

This isn't a blame-the-victim attitude. But I do want to point out that in addition to legitimately, unfortunately, bullied weird kids, there are also legitimately creepy, mean people who will experience (and characterize) the social shunning they receive in school as 'bullying.'

tl;dr IOW there are a lot of mean nerds who had it coming