World Cup Germany 2006

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As requested, another new thread. The knock-out phase begins today:

Germany Sweden 16:00 BST - 24 Jun, 2006
Argentina Mexico 20:00 BST - 24 Jun, 2006
England Ecuador 16:00 BST - 25 Jun, 2006
Portugal Netherlands 20:00 BST - 25 Jun, 2006
Italy Australia 16:00 BST - 26 Jun, 2006
Switzerland Ukraine 20:00 BST - 26 Jun, 2006
Brazil Ghana 16:00 BST - 27 Jun, 2006
Spain France 20:00 BST - 27 Jun, 2006

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:31 (nineteen years ago)

getting incredibly good odds on Sweden beating Germany.... of course it's an outside bet but I'd say it's worth a punt

― Porkpie (porkpie), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:44 (nineteen years ago)

I would say Germany, Argentina, Brazil and maybe England must be strong favourites to win their games. You'd expect Italy and Spain to win theirs too, but they'll be trickier. Portugal v Holland is a tricky one, probably slightly in favour of the Dutch, and Switzerland v Ukraine is a mystery.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:51 (nineteen years ago)

rex the dog is rooting for holland

― jergins (jergins), Saturday, 24 June 2006 07:57 (nineteen years ago)

I'd go for Switzerland to beat Ukraine. Ukraine have totally underwhelmed in the group stages, only beating Tunisia yesterday through a soft penalty. Schevchekeno doesn't look 100% fit at the moment. Switzerland, not very exicting to watch but well organised and seem to have a good team spirit about them.

I think Ghana will beat Brazil.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Saturday, 24 June 2006 08:03 (nineteen years ago)

w/out Essein? probably not..agreed on Swiss possibly beating Ukraine in a nervous encounter.

Will have a better idea of how the Germans are defeding by the end of their match. Wouldn't de surprised if they'd scrape through in extra-time..

outside outside chance but if the Aussies get the Italians to show their dark side could they possibly force penalties? The Italians have a great chance to get to a semi-final, could that work against them?

Also an ok chance of Ecuador beating England - no-one (pundits etc) is expecting it, but Sven and Eng have had enough of each other and if Rooney hasn't inflicted permanent damage by the time he goes off (say after 70 mins?), we'll see how England copes..wouldn't be surprised at an extra-time and a possible shoot-out.

The Dutch will beat Portugal unless Scolari works out some magic for 'em and Spain will surely beat France.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Saturday, 24 June 2006 08:06 (nineteen years ago)

Spain should beat France, but, you know...

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 08:08 (nineteen years ago)

poll un-count

― ken c (ken c), Saturday, 24 June 2006 08:44 (nineteen years ago)

Top marks for the Sun's splash headline today:

FOOL POLL'S COMING HOME

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Saturday, 24 June 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

Bookie offering 7/1 for Ecuador. That's rather generous.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Saturday, 24 June 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

Switzerland are this years Greece

― mason storm (mason storm), Saturday, 24 June 2006 09:48 (nineteen years ago)

Greece went into Euro 2004 written off as no-hopers though. The Swiss have been praised for a while.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 24 June 2006 10:23 (nineteen years ago)

I thought Equador were this year's Greece? This is all very confusing.

Portugal to beat Holland, I reckon.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 24 June 2006 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

I'm feeling pleased with myself at the moment, cause I predicted 27 out of the 36 group positions right in our office sweepstake.

― Alba (Alba), Saturday, 24 June 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

So, whatever happened to Justin Hawkins' World Cup single then?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

1-0 Germany - Klose beats his man and busts the Swedish defence wide open, Isaksson comes out and blocks the shot, bounces out to Podolski who thumps it home from just outside the area.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

That was quick.

So, whatever happened to Justin Hawkins' World Cup single then?

Buried in soft peat.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:07 (nineteen years ago)

Continually getting nudged back in the release schedules - think it's currently down for the 3rd of July, which seems a bit... cocky.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

Is the camerawork on this game (on the BBC) making anyone else feel a bit queasy? It's like the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan it's that bloody shaky!

― yer mam! (yer mam!), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

And another! Podolski again, Klose again picked out by Schweinsteiger, runs at the defence, brings the centre-backs with him, then lays it off beautifully for Podolski to bang home from just outside the area. Klose is starting to look like a proper world-beating striker. Blimey.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Torsten Frings in handball shocker.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

has klose REALLY scored five hat-tricks for germany?

teddy lucic gets a second yellow and takes the long walk. poor sweden!

― indie disco dancer, sweet romancer (haitch), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

And Lucic sent off :-(

― Ranking Rupert (Ranking Rupert), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

getting incredibly good odds on Sweden beating Germany.... of course it's an outside bet but I'd say it's worth a punt

I wonder what those odds are now

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

200/1

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

35 minutes, and Sweden look to be heading home. I think the German fans may be chanting "EA-SY!"

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

And now, Gary angles for Adam Hart-Davis' job.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

Anyone who asks the referee to give an opponent a caution should receive a red card and a punch in the mouth.

― caek (caek), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

Lineker: "Ibrahimovic was once arrested for impersonating a policeman - today he might be arrested for impersonating a footballer."

Pearce and Bright seem to be hell-bent on insisting that that's a really good joke. It isn't, really.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

PENALTY FOR SWEDEN

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

oh no :-(

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Over the bar. Oh dear.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

A cool-headed finish from the Celtic legend.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

There ws a substitution in between the foul and penalty, wonder if that delay made a difference..

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

My cable got disconnected, anyone know where i can watch/hear this online?

― Jena (JenaP), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

BBC
Click on "Watch Live Coverage.."

― gooblar (gooblar), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

Those little 'DOC' bibs the medics get to wear are so cute.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

On being subbed and going to the bench, Podolski shakes hands with everyone and looks for a seat anywhere but next to Kahn, realises that is the only free seat, and reluctantly sits down.

― Ranking Rupert (Ranking Rupert), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

BECKER SIGHTING

― Jimmy Mod: NOIZE BOARD GRIL COMPARISON ANALYST (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:45 (nineteen years ago)

bit of an anticlimax but i'm actually glad germany are through, they seem less arrogant lately and they're good hosts.

― michael wells (michael w.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

That German attacking set of Podolski, Klose, Ballack and Schweinsteiger looks really useful. Against (presumably) Argentina, though...

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Saturday, 24 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

The hirsuite referee was a bit of a homer in the first half, giving plenty to GER and nowt much to SWE. And that red card was harsh, but the grinning and the gloating from the GER players was less than endearing.

Alan Hansen's remark about Ballack having more unsuccesful shots on goal than even Lampard

― David Orton (scarlet), Saturday, 24 June 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

The red card, and Germany's role in it, was a disgrace, but I somehow find myself quite liking them. They just look so wide-eyed and crazy and naive and enthusiastic. Like a shit Brazil.

Should England be worried by how shit Germany made Sweden look, or were Sweden a worse team today?

― caek (caek), Saturday, 24 June 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

If Germany learn to capitalise on their chances, they'll be awesome.

The barman I watched the match in said, as I was getting my final pint, that he was shit scared as an England fan watching Germany, who didn't look that comfortable in their group, destroy a side England couldn't beat.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Saturday, 24 June 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

that game had a lot of comedy, even though i was cheering for sweden: the smiling ref with the red card, the swedish kicking of the shoe, the ball to the german player's face that sent him down IMMEDIATELY, plus all the on-the-ball camerapeople getting close-ups (and in slow-motion!) of players with shirts half off. okay, that last one was more hot than comedy, but still. i was tired this morning.

i am going to drink coffee and get my gameface on for argentina. and by gameface, i mean, my normal face but in front of a big-screen tv in a cafe.

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Saturday, 24 June 2006 16:56 (nineteen years ago)

There was a close up of Ibrahimovic's tattoo on his stomach, which quite clearly says "Only God can judge me", but the "Only God can" bit was obscured by his arm. Mark Bright and whoever the commentator was thought it just said "judge me", and said Martin O'Neill would be happy to do so. How I laughed.

― caek (caek), Saturday, 24 June 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

The barman I watched the match in

Tell us more...

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

i think i just whistled. okay, i can't wolf-whistle, i just whoooed.
i am a bit of a dirtbag today.
xpost

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Saturday, 24 June 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

loved the grinning, sarcastic ref truly embracing his role as villain. the slowmo of him raising the red card was priceless.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 24 June 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

The barman I watched the match in
Tell us more...

-- Teh HoBBercraft (j__...), June 24th, 2006 7:00 PM.

Typical Bristle barman, no story.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Saturday, 24 June 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

Mexico!

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

mexico are superb! 1-0 marquez

― michael wells (michael w.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

1-0 MEXICO! Rafael Marquez with an absolutely gifted slide-in after a freekick.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:06 (nineteen years ago)

Mexican Bandits ambush the Argies with a GOAL

Mexico add spice to match !

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:07 (nineteen years ago)

It says something that even in running, 1-0 up, Mexico are still 7/2 to win this game.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

1-1. That lasted.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:09 (nineteen years ago)

aw that's shit.

― michael wells (michael w.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

Jared Borgetti OG, Big Sam wouldn't approve.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

Talk:Jared Borgetti
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Jared Borgetti is the top scorer in the history of mexico. he is now the best mexican player there is. he is the first mexican to play in the FA premiere legue. VIVA MEXICO CABRONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRIBA MEXICO!!!!!!!! MEXICAN FOR LIFE!!!!! Mexico is goin to win the next world cup!!!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:10 (nineteen years ago)

did mexico just give argentina a goal or was I hallucinating?

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Borgetti backfires

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:11 (nineteen years ago)

Fun fact: Gabriel Heinze is fluent in Welsh.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

Best part of yesterday = watching my first bit of UKTV G2 coverage (Spain v Saudi). Half-time pundit = BRIAN BLESSED!!!

(sadly the sound was down and we were subjected to Ian Wright/Lee Dixon & MON on teh beeb, but still, BRIAN BLESSED!)

― ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

I love that the ref is smirking after every foul.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:16 (nineteen years ago)

Aww, this is a great match. Skill, invention, pace, passion, brutality, tempestuousness. And Lionel Scaloni.

― Ranking Rupert (Ranking Rupert), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

Salcido's been having a helluva half-hour. If he's off, Mexico is in some trouble.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

Couple of total dives there from Argentina, both called as fouls.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, it's strange to see a side that makes Mexico look Corinthian.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

I started off wanting Argentina to win (for the sake of my fantasy football team), but I'm now rooting for the Mexicans after the blatant diving, and Heinze somehow not getting sent off.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:50 (nineteen years ago)

Did an entire half pass by without Maradona and his entourage onscreen?

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

how come marquez isn't a midfield playmaker?

― michael wells (michael w.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:53 (nineteen years ago)

There was only one Maradonna shot in the first half, so fairly restrained.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

c'mon Mexiko!

― gbx (skowly), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

ooh, bad sides call.

― gbx (skowly), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

Has this ref been bribed? He's been giving free-kicks for imaginary fouls to Argentina all night, booking Mexicans for next to nothing, but letting Argetinians off for far worse, and..... oh, disallowing a last-minute Argentina winner. Maybe not then.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

If it wasn't for Borgetti being possibly the whingiest, most diving player in the world ever, I'd want to be Mexican right now, even if they end up losing.

Marquez = Colossus

― Porkpie (porkpie), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

It's a brilliant game so far. Maybe the best of the tournament?

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

Why didn't they refer that last offside to the video ref, Argentina would be through. Oh...forgot.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Saturday, 24 June 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

In terms of skill, yeah, but I think Australia/Croatia has it in terms of pure adrenaline and incident.

(xp)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

oh come on! (re:overtime goal)

GO MEXICO!

― ai lien (kold_krush), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

oh wow

― gbx (skowly), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Maxi's Welt Klass Goal

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Fiddlesticks. I catch most of the game, get back here due to something else being scheduled and I miss Maxi's goal!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

The best goal in the tournament so far.
statistics shows that Argentina nevr lost a world cup game, if it continued more than 90 minutes.

― emekars (emekars), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

The Argentinian passing game is truly awe-inspiring.

― Border crossing (Sans Sushi), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

mexico's unis are better tho.

― gbx (skowly), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

― ai lien (kold_krush), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

oh well.

― gbx (skowly), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

go klose!

― ai lien (kold_krush), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

Astonishing game. From an English perspective, what's remarkable is how technically good all the moves and passes were, even deep into extra time. Makes you realise how shoddy the supposedly world-class English midfield is. Thankfully decided by the goal of the tournament so far.

One good thing to take away is that the Germans will hopefully be spanked by the Argentines.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:40 (nineteen years ago)

By far the match of the tourney so far (even though Mexico didn't do much offensively in the second half and extra time.) I don't see Argentina beating Germany though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

That goal was amazing, I shouted out loud in amazement, "oh!" I said, though I was watching alone. That match actually improved my mood tenfold. Messi being deployed in the last 20 minutes is a pretty lethal weapon.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

I don't see Argentina beating Germany though.

I predict a rout.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 24 June 2006 20:51 (nineteen years ago)

wtf ws that slap on Marquez at the end all about? really the argies do 'the best and the worst' better than any other team. Wonder if (and surely when) Eng go out they'll do it on the kind of performance Mexico gave tonight.

Germany simply don't look solid enough at the back - the penalty given earlier in the day ws silly. the home crowd will be in for a rude awakening.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Saturday, 24 June 2006 21:04 (nineteen years ago)

maybe i'm drunk but that slap on marquez didn't really look like much of anything at all. also, yeah that gets my vote for goal of the tournament, like ronan i sort of did an "oh" on my own and spilt beer down my t shirt watching the telly. argentina are building a hell of a portfolio.

― michael wells (michael w.), Saturday, 24 June 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

"I predict a rout."

I don't see it. Germany's way better than Mexico and will have the not-so-insignificant-home field advantage. If there is a rout I think it's likely to in the other direction.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 24 June 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

brackets, tourneys, home fields...

i'm kinda hoping germany can breeze past a disbelieving argentina now - they've a delightful, almost i dunno, keeganesque simplicity in their 4-4-2ness, their super direct makeshift wingers and two powerful strikers knocking them in for fun. it's a bit like the rest of the world, all busy handwringing over tactics and patterns and technique, is playing pro evo while germany are going bosh bosh goal wahey playing sensible soccer

― rtccc (mwah), Saturday, 24 June 2006 22:48 (nineteen years ago)

they arent "building a portfolio" for a start

― rtccc (mwah), Saturday, 24 June 2006 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

i think this game hurt my circulatory system.

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Saturday, 24 June 2006 23:09 (nineteen years ago)

What a gut-wrenchingly brilliant match!!! i wanted Mexico to win, but if you're going to lose by a goal, you can't do any worse than that one.

Borgetti seemed off and a bit petulant. I hate saying it, as I'm a Bolton fan, but och well. Fine performance from Mexico though.

― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Saturday, 24 June 2006 23:13 (nineteen years ago)

That was astonishing. Game of the tournament, goal of the tournament, right there. The entire pub was rooting for Mexico but I can't deny Argentina deserved to go through for that one moment of magic/jamminess.

OTOH - Heinze made THE MOST CYNICAL FOUL I HAVE EVER SEEN. Which says a lot considering what Argentina got away with in that game. Literally throwing bodies in the way of the Mexicans half the time and getting away with it.

But frankly, when you can bring Tevez and Messi off the bench, who cares? And who, apart from his mum, tipped Maxi Rodrigues to be player of the tournament beforeahand? Magic.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 00:05 (nineteen years ago)

Finally saw a clip of That Goal. Jeez Louise.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 25 June 2006 03:48 (nineteen years ago)

they arent "building a portfolio" for a start

well i sort of meant it in a jokey way because they've scored a few class goals now but i suppose it does sound a little wanky. thanks for picking up on it.

― michael wells (michael w.), Sunday, 25 June 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

England Ecuador 16:00 BST - 25 Jun, 2006

I have a really bad feeling about this.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 09:48 (nineteen years ago)

you are most definitely not on your own

― Porkpie (porkpie), Sunday, 25 June 2006 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

"that slap on marquez didn't really look like much of anything at all."

looked at a replay and it didn't look as bad...still, ref might've given a penalty if he wsn't looking in the direction of the corner flag. Not sure disallowing the second argentinian goal ws enough to even things out.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Sunday, 25 June 2006 10:15 (nineteen years ago)

Sven-Goran Eriksson may need striker Peter Crouch to perform a rain dance rather his usual robot moves, with temperatures set to hit 35C.

I predict extra time, with someone vomiting on the touchline due to sun stroke at the change of ends (probably Joe Cole).

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

according to the news the england players were drinking lots of water yesterday to make sure they were properly hydrated for today's game, but surely this just means they would be up all night weeing?!!??!?!?!

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Sunday, 25 June 2006 11:19 (nineteen years ago)

Stan Collymore is amongst the fans in Stuttgart !

At last England have an ex footballer as a real fan.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

According to Radio 5, Fat Frank has had the most shots (18) without scoring of anyone in this World Cup.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

I have for some reason been promising everyone I know a ridiculous 40 yard Lampard goal since the start of the tournament. He seems to be taking a while to find his sight though.

Shame Mexico played Teh Hated Argies so early on really, I don't want Raf Marquez to go home. Last goal provoked that excellent hatred-mixed-with-grudging-respect cry of "oh for FUCK'S SAKE" from most of the people in the pub.

There is a weird sort of gloom hanging over England's impending exit to Ulises "Hey" De La Cruz and the boyz, ain't there? There's always a certain sort of wild-eyed optimism before we play a proper Big Team and then go out on penalties, but today...hm.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Well, going out in the first knockout round to such an outsider is a mch more scary prospect.

― Alba (Alba), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

William Hill are offering 13-1 on England winning the match on penalities, which seems worth a punt.

― Alba (Alba), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I was going to say the sort of thing Alba just said. Certainly I like watching Scotland v Brazil/Italy etc a whole lot more than I like watching them against Costa Rica/Faroes/Hungary etc. Lose the first one, it's a heroic effort against a much better team. Lose the second, it's pointing-and-laughing time.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

If this doesn't instill patriotism in you, nothing will:

http://www.noblepr.co.uk/Press_Releases/gut/images/tony_england/ss3.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

Bookie offering 7/1 for Ecuador. That's rather generous.

-- Onimo (gerry.wat...), June 24th, 2006 11:29 AM. (GerryNemo) (later)

Seems I wasn't the only one who thought so. 7/1 now in to 9/2 - that's a load of cash on Ecuador in one day.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

xpost
OMG that's scary.

I heard a bit of the rewrite of Amarillo on Friday night. It's crap, but at least it's stupidly triumphant crap as opposed to the "inspiring" and "uplifting" crap Embrace released.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

Dom's punt of the day is Ashley Cole to be first player booked at 16/1.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

What are the odds on Lampard to score?

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

We met a couple yesterday who invited us to theirs to watch the Germany game. At half time they played us the World Cup song that THEY HAD WRITTEN. The chorus contained an impression of Sven.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

Lampard 7/1 to score first, 9/4 to score at all.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 13:19 (nineteen years ago)

John Terry 5/1 to score in 90 mins might be worth a flutter.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

If Germany comes out all brave like Mexico did, actually attacking instead of 'oh we have to hold off the Holy Argentine Empire', they have a fine chance.

Great game, I'm re-watching the 2nd half and the overtimes again today.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 25 June 2006 13:28 (nineteen years ago)

Ecuador not following the script shocker.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

WTF? Was Lawro about to break into a Sven impression?

― Ranking Rupert (Ranking Rupert), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:34 (nineteen years ago)

Hargreaves is fucked.(?)

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

nah, looks fine.

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

Dear oh dear oh dear...
Ecuador's defence has blocked England's every turn. No goal in first half = not good.

Ecuador not exactly thrilling either.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

what should happen next:

Beckham OFF
Lennon ON

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

what a boring game! stands to reason that this is the game that gets network broadcast in the US, while exciting stuff like argentina/mexico gets stuck on univision. no wonder everyone thinks soccer is boring.

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

ESPN, ESPN2 and ABC are showing every game.

but yeah, this has not been the most exciting match.

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

what should happen next:
Beckham OFF
Lennon ON

DJ Martian otm, though there's more chance of Sven pulling me off than Beckham.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

what should happen next:

Beckham OFF
Lennon ON

DJ Martian OTM. Game needs a winger.

Both teams poor so far.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

haha xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

It's not really boring for me, it's tense as fuck.

Rooney needs a fwend, should he last much longer.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

Even my son - who is siting draped in an england flag - is bored. England look the more dangerous (in the same way as cod are more dangerous than haddock).

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Ref in 'not a friend of England' shocka.

Kids decked out in full England regalia are never interested in the actual games.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:04 (nineteen years ago)

Turnip Taylor took off Lineker in 1992 Euro, does Sven have the guts to sub Beckham

The only scenario: Beckham gets clattered by an Ecuador player

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

BECKHAM YOU BEAUTY!!!!

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

Beckham OFF
Lennon ON

O RLY

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

SVENsational Beckham special

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

what should happen next:
Beckham OFF
Lennon ON

What a stupid, shortsighted idea.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:18 (nineteen years ago)

jesus the English fans are loud, holy shit.

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

Initially thought it was a goalkeeping clanger but the free kick was beautifully placed. I nearly missed cos I was changing a nappy. Hopefully Ava (who is sitting on my knee, in full Ghana kit) will need to go again around 85min.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

he hasn't done it for 3 years? and then strikes lucky - but what a time, what a moment

SVEN:
WELL, i knew beckham can score a special goal

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:21 (nineteen years ago)

re: jesus the English fans are loud,

nowt compared to Fratton Park, shout

SCUMMER DELGADO

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

Ugh, I don't want to watch Beckham puking!

― I will commence to drop a knowledge bomb. (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

SHANK

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

FFS Lampard, score once will you??

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

Most of England crowded around the centre circle, and then playing deep again.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

Robinson's Barely Walking.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Job Done. As the saying goes for England.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Portugal and Holland must be shitting themselves.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

We're shit, and we know we are.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Indeed.

England: slightly less pants than Ecuador.

― Ranking Rupert (Ranking Rupert), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Alexei Lalas wtf??

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

England did good. Where was the supposed 'dark horse' South Americans that demolished Poland and Costa Rica that everyone was talking up? Getting run off the park, that's where.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

Getting run off the park, that's where.

No David, that's called a video and shows things that happened in the past. The rest of us were watching England struggle to beat Ecuador today.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 25 June 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

It was Ecuador who were struggling and you know it.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 16:01 (nineteen years ago)

I predict extra time, with someone vomiting on the touchline due to sun stroke at the change of ends (probably Joe Cole).

-- caek (ung...), Today 12:12 PM. (caek) (later) (link)

I got the vomit right.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

I'm really proud that we sent out a team capable of stopping second rate opposition playing. Not creating anything ourselves, like, but stopping second rate opposition. Nice.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

Ecuador were the tournament's rank outsiders (150/1 as opposed to England's 7/1). That England resorted to timewasting (Carragher, Robinson both booked for it) and cheating (Robinson's 'clever injury') tells you everything you need to know about how much running off the park was being done. More like running down the clock.

It was a game of few chances and poor passing and England shaded it. Nothing to shout about but if I was an England fan my joy at reaching the 1/4 final would be tempered by how difficult England have found it against 4 not exactly world class teams.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Sunday, 25 June 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

Ecuador were the tournament's rank outsiders

Funny how all the hullabloo sounding Ecuador ("this year's Greece!") up to now has vanished, replaced by 'yeah but they were never any competition anyway'.

England never excelled, but in the heat - that was supposed to favour the ~~fast, exciting, underestimte them at your peril~~ er rubbish, actually, and we never thought different, Ecuador - they controlled the entire game. Only Tenorio in the first half had a sniff of goal - a chance which even Lampard would have scored from - but otherwise were left chasing the ball.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 16:57 (nineteen years ago)

To be fair, I thought the second half was England's best football of the tournament - although that's not saying much. They had most of the possession, Rooney got better as the game went on, Carrick looked composed and comfortable, Hargreaves okay at right back. Gerrard and Lampard both had a stinker though.

Not sure about the formation - it didn't really get the best out of Rooney. Still, there's an argument for playing a five-man midfield against the better teams. More use needs to be made of bringing Lennon on as a late weapon, though. And if there was ever a game to bring Walcott on, this was it.

Weirdest moment of the match - Mark Lawrenson's totally random Sven impression. "Welll...". And then shouting "GO AWAY!" at an Ecuador player having a go at the ref.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

Also did anyone else notice Steve McClaren scratching his knackers as he jumped off the bench after the goal?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:11 (nineteen years ago)

Steve McLaren really needs to get some longer shorts.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

I was in the middle of some very tricky cuddly toy crowd control (on a hobby horse!) when the goal went in, but I did see Beckham throwing up afterwards. I didn´t know he was throwing up though. I thought he was just being a spazz as usual. Romeo had a choc-ice on the go. Or was it Brooklyn? I liked the Ecuador coach's little game of one potato, two potato just before kick-off.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:42 (nineteen years ago)

Did anyone spot the celebrating crowd shot of two girlsw with a guy with his jogging bottoms round his knees (but underpants still pulled up) stood behind them?

Also, which England player do we think clearly said "fuck" in the tunnel just before they went out. Terry? Walcott?

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Brooklyn. It was a Magnum.

It was funny how Motson started talking to try and cover over that swearing.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

are the dutch wearing an old crystal palace kit?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

xpost, he did make reference to it a few minutes in. Something like, "I understand there was some strong language used in the tunnel. That tells you something about how much this game means to England."

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

That was SEXY.

― Crimea River (Mark C), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:22 (nineteen years ago)

This game is much more entertaining than the E v E match this morning.

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

cristiano ronaldo is CRYING on TELEVISION.

latins are so emotional!

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

Costinha red card. Should be an interesting second half.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

OH, ESPNpaws:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/Juror8/lolespn.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

The karate kick on Robben by Nuno Valente was kind of awesome.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

Let's hear it for plucky England. Against all the odds we've overcome the mighty Ecuador, the auld enemy. At times our performances have been sublime, and our unique brand of all-out attacking football has surely won over the hearts and minds of the world. Having dispensed with the big guns of Trinidad, Paraguay and Ecuador there is no one left in this tournament to trouble us. Sven's glamour boys are marching inevitably towards the trophy with the whole world willing us on. Football's coming home.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

You are Steve Ryder AICM£5.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

Holland: it's just like watching England!
(actually, I think England might be slightly better) But I hope the Dutch do better second half - I've drawn them in the works sweep and I hoped this might be their year and expected them to get through to the final. With Portugal down to 10 men and with Ronaldo off, they still might. But POR look very good.

I thought Miniche was going to do a small lap of honour on the running track after the goal.

(that's exactly what I've been saying, Teh Hob. Exactly)

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

the Dutch [...] - I've drawn them in the works sweep

Ditto, though all I feel is torn as I kind of don't want them to win. Ah well.

― Crimea River (Mark C), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:15 (nineteen years ago)

The Univision broadcaster, who seems very biased to Portugal, must be on amphetamines or something - he's been speaking as fast as he possibly can this half.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:20 (nineteen years ago)

wtf.

― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

jesus fuck what an ugly game

― fez (fez), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

The fuck is David Pleat talking about, at any point ever?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

indeed (xpost)

― ai lien (kold_krush), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

FUCK!
Poor Figo getting a hand in the face, moments after harmlessly nutting someone. It's getting nasty now.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

Figo head-butt was pretty amazing.

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

"no it's definitely not a head injury"

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

OMG FITE!

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:31 (nineteen years ago)

its a brawl!! :0

― fez (fez), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

― fez (fez), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

SLOBBERKNOCKER

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:32 (nineteen years ago)

It's now all down to who's going to self-destruct the least.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:33 (nineteen years ago)

You don't get a red card for gratuitously pushing over an opponent after the whistle has blown? wtf?

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

I'm liking this a lot. Ref blows up for 'injured' players with Portugal on the attack. Portugal justifiably expect Holland to give the ball back when play is restarted, instead they try to run unopposed through on goal. Hack him down, I say.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

THE FIX IS IN!

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:36 (nineteen years ago)

no wai!

― ai lien (kold_krush), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

This Portugeuse guy who got the red card didn't go to acting class like the rest of the team.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

The ref has lost it

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

There's gonna be like 20 minutes of stoppage time..

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:38 (nineteen years ago)

why isn't VAN NISTELROOIJ playing today?

― ai lien (kold_krush), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

Make that 30 minutes..

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink is coming on!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Extra time will be played 5-a-side at this rate.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:42 (nineteen years ago)

All cards aside, Netherland are constantly failing to finish on offense.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

For those of us only reading the updates, can someone just clarify: are we watching the last ever game referreed by this Ivanov, or is the game really that rough today.

(I am so bummed that the Dutch are going down.)

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

Van Bronckhorst is your FOURTH red card!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

xpost It's really been that rough.
but:
SIXTEEN yellow cards!

― gooblar (gooblar), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

the ESPN commentators are convinced Invanov is done for

― W i l l (common_person), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

Come on, let's have a penalty to finish things off!

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:55 (nineteen years ago)

merde

― ai lien (kold_krush), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

hahah the univision just broke into english and said "welcome to the jungle"

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha! insanest world cup game ever.
as a neutral i hope england don't go much further purely cos their games are so dull to watch.

― zappi (joni), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

eng have a chance now thanks to a Russian ref.

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

Balls.
Oh well, that had everything. Apart from goals, really.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

Pleat berates the referee for booking players for obviously bookable offences. Dick.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

(insert curb crawling gag here)

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

eng have a chance now thanks to a Russian ref.

Abramabovich is mixed up in this somehow!

Tough luck for Portugal, though. England wouldn't be looking particularly tough, if they would've been able to field a full-strength team. Now...

― pleased to mitya (mitya), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:01 (nineteen years ago)

That was just bizarre.

as a neutral i hope england don't go much further purely cos their games are so dull to watch

We are charmed, though. Drawn into a ridiculously easy group (which we won without playing well at any stage). Then drawn against Ecuador (instead of Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland, Portugal, Spain, France, etc.) who we narrowly defeated without playing well. And now with a week to rest before facing a team that's had half its players injured or suspended.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

Well we might be charmed if not for the huge Swedish albatross hanging around our necks.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

It would be really funny if England won the World Cup without playing well at any point, and scraping out dull 1-0 victories.

That way the whole country could still be a little bit unsatisfied about it.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

Portugal go through to the QFs. Sven v Scolari : the rematch.

England must be shitting themselves - in fear for their personal safety.
Actually it'll be interesting to see what England do against a side that comes out to actually play attacking football rather than with a cautious approach. Portugal are much the better team but are so bat-shit crazy they may just fall apart.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

A little unsatisfied? It's getting to the point where I don't want us to win.

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

I loved watching Gabby, Ruud and Terry earnestly trying to pretend that this isn't how we like to see football played, while grinning ear to ear.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

I want Ronaldo to cry again, regardless of who else is playing.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:11 (nineteen years ago)

It would be really funny if England won the World Cup without playing well at any point, and scraping out dull 1-0 victories.

Like Germany in Japan '02! (aside from the final winning thing).

That way the whole country could still be a little bit unsatisfied about it.

We'll always find a way.

― David Orton (scarlet), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:11 (nineteen years ago)

It's getting to the point where I don't want us to win

I've heard that from several people. At times in this World Cup I've been willing the other team to go ahead - just to make it interesting. I can't quite believe how unsatisfying it's been so far.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

No, they are striking the perfect balance! Winning while pleasing nobody is the WAY FORWARD!

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah I am amazed at how bad England are. Did they have more than 3 shots on goal today?

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

BBC match stats:

ENGLAND ECUADOR
Possession
51% 49%
Shots on target
4 4
Shots off target
4 8
Corners
5 7
Fouls
13 22

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:44 (nineteen years ago)

still pretty grim. plus you could count England "moves" on one hand in the entire tournament.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:45 (nineteen years ago)

Considering there were 16 bookings, the last line of this is amazing:

PORTUGAL HOLLAND
Possession
51% 49%
Shots on target
6 8
Shots off target
4 14
Corners
3 5
Fouls
9 12

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:47 (nineteen years ago)

As my father is very fond of saying, in the sort of way that only fathers do, "you're better being lucky than good".

Easiest opposition of this round, a week to rest before taking on a Portugal team decimated by suspension with yellow cards hanging over most of the rest of them, and still the possibility that Figo may get a suspension once video evidence is taken into account. They may be poor ("may"), but they have luck on their side.

That game tonight was the most entertainingly bonkers match ever.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:49 (nineteen years ago)

That's the ref branded "a wally" by Mick McCarthy in the France-Switzerland game. Mick otm.

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

Fifa's attempt to stamp out tackling is getting a bit silly.

Thought England were a lot better today, but still pretty hopeless. Lamps has lost it. Between him, Ballack and Essien, Chelsea fans will have a lot of ducking to do next season.

― Pete W (peterw), Sunday, 25 June 2006 20:53 (nineteen years ago)

The official report claims there were 25 fouls, but either way it's insane that ~80% of them resulted a card of one colour or another. Players clearly picked up that the referee would give a caution for sneezing without covering your mouth, and started looking for fouls.

xpost to ailsa, Australia and Ghana are up there for "easiest" opposition in the second round too. Fact is, all of them deserve to be in the second round.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

I just remembered, when England were still at 0-0, the subs that Sven had warming up were Crouch and Wayne Bridge.

Am I the only one wondering why in the name of god he'd be bringing on Wayne Bridge in that scenario?

― Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

was this the scenario

Joe Cole OFF: Bridge ON ?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

Presumably. Cole was gash today.

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, the Wayne Bridge thing had me totally confused as well.

Tonight's game though... wow! Totally bonkers. Figo was retrospectively yellow-carded for that headbutt, I think? He couldn't have been sent off because the ref didn't see it, but the other officials called him out on it. That probably means he won't be suspended on Saturday, right? Still, no Deco and (hopefully) no Ronaldo is great for England. When Ricardo went down I actually shouted "we're going to win the World Cup!" and, for a second, meant it.

Considering the sheer number of fouls on Ronaldo in an average away game at Fulham, he might possibly have been murdered had he stayed on much longer. Still, it's always entertaining to see Cristy Ron crying.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:33 (nineteen years ago)

Also, you know how Deco went and sat with Barca teammate Van Bronckhorst after being sent off? Van Nistelrooy actually did a similar thing with Ronaldo. Shouting "Ha! You're out of the World Cup and your dad's dead. Go crying to Big Phil Scolari, he's your mum!" Hence Ronaldo's tears.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:35 (nineteen years ago)

I'm now convinced that England are destined to be this tournaments Greece. Poor, unattractive football but scraping through with a mixture of luck and determination.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:36 (nineteen years ago)

"Considering there were 16 bookings, the last line of this is amazing:"

Except a goodly bunch of the yellow cards were for time-wasting and general insanity after play was already stopped. I felt bad for the ref. The game was seriously bonkers and you could tell he was desperately trying to get it under control, but to no avail. And fact is almost every one of those yellow cards (although the last Holland red was silly) were totally deserved in my eyes.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 25 June 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

I think I'd go with Venables' line that the players smelt the ref's willingness to card very early on. I don't think I've ever seen a team sulk anywhere near as much as the Dutch, more or less from the word go - yes, Arjen Robben is quite good at the footballs, but he's such a whiny get! Every time he so much as wobbled slightly he'd start yelling for a free kick, and Kuyt appeared to be doing the same in order to disguise the fact he couldn't seem to get a shot or do much of any use at all, really. Then there was the headbutt business - yeah, snide and all, but Van Bommel actually waited 10 or 15 seconds before making his mind up as to whether or not it hurt, and THEN crumpled to the ground cos he'd realised the ref hadn't turned round yet, and... uhhh. The high point was the bit where Van Persie shot across the face of goal, and Wesley Sneijder Cantona-kicked the post, presumably due to them failing to win a corner or something.

The high point of the entire game, though, was Pleat giving his opinion on Costinha - "He's a poor man's Makelele - not being disrespectful to the lad, I just think that Makelele is marvellous." He's useless, but he's still better than Gareth Southgate.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:20 (nineteen years ago)

Matt DC, please set up a Paypal account so I can give you £££.

I loved watching Gabby, Ruud and Terry earnestly trying to pretend that this isn't how we like to see football played, while grinning ear to ear.

One of the Lots Of Annoying Things about ITV's coverage is how Gabby spends most of her time pretending to be trying really hard to recover from the spasms of laughter Ally And The Boys' Hilarious Antics have sent her into.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:23 (nineteen years ago)

Robben is edging above C. Ronaldo in the More Brilliant But Fucking Annoying stakes, f'sure.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:24 (nineteen years ago)

He did get a good karate kick to the shoulder that was promptly ignored, athough I do agree.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:38 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, but that's because he started rolling around holding his shin instead.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:40 (nineteen years ago)

Lol teh boy who cried amiretc

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:48 (nineteen years ago)

van basten's (initially sound) plan of ridding the dutch camp of big egos and in-fighting came unstuck in a big way - i didn't quibble with his decision to leave horseface on the bench, but it was silly not to give him a run-out: you need a goal, you play your natural goalscorer - especially as kuyt had been labouring badly throughout. going out to portugal in the last 16 would not have been a disgrace, but the manner of their exit was a little disappointing for a manager/team who seemed so promising a while ago.

i enjoyed the game, though. i like a bloodbath every now and then.

england's game was crap, of course. i think they have contributed four of the five least entertaining games of the tournament so far. the positive news for them is that portugal may be depleted by suspensions and injuries - could figo be retrospectively banned for violent conduct after that headbutt?

i almost feel sorry for eriksson, despite his obvious silliness - the tournament seems to have confirmed everyone's suspicions about him, sure, but it's also trashed the notion that england have a golden crop of players. lampard contributes little beyond 20-yard strikes, none of which are flying in at the moment. beckham is doing nothing from open play. terry is slow, and makes far more cock-ups than some are wiling to acknowledge. gerrard seems to have reverted to his form from a few years back - launching too many aimless balls, drifting, giving possession away easily - shame, as he looked to have become a more complete player this season. joe cole has been overpraised - one good performance out of four, by my count. robinson is a mediocre goalie, who can't deal with crosses, and is still england's best by a distance.

the winner of argentina - germany will win the tournament. i think it will be argentina.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 June 2006 22:50 (nineteen years ago)

Seems Figo might be in trouble.

Telegraph:

Fifa may look at the second-half incident when Ivanov cautioned Luis Figo, even though the Portugal captain appeared to butt Mark van Bommel. As the referee took action, Figo may be safe, but it would be wrong to underestimate Fifa's disciplinary powers and their campaign against foul play.

Guardian:

Eventually, after 33 minutes, Ronaldo hobbled off and there is a doubt as to whether he will recover for the match against England.

That would be a blow in itself to Portuguese hopes but it will be multiplied because of Deco and Costinha being unavailable. Extra sweat will therefore be produced by Scolari as he awaits Fifa's response to Figo's butt on Van Bommel on the hour.

Scolari:

Scolari unsurprisingly saw it differently, praising the performance of his players and defending the conduct of his captain. “Figo was much more correct than the Dutch players,” he said. “Jesus Christ said that we should turn the other cheek, but Figo is not Jesus Christ. All I can think of today is this heroic victory.”

― caek (caek), Sunday, 25 June 2006 23:17 (nineteen years ago)

Bollocks will Fifa do anything. This perhaps belongs on that Say Things You Hope Won't Happen thread.

. Extra sweat will therefore be produced by Scolari as he awaits Fifa's response to Figo's butt on Van Bommel on the hour.

Is this the worst sentence ever?

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Sunday, 25 June 2006 23:36 (nineteen years ago)

Fascists or not, I am sad Big Phil is not going to be England manager. He is so very very entertaining.

My favourite bit was when Deco and von Brockenhurst were sitting having a friendly chat after having both been sent off. I wonder if they were speaking Catalan.

I wacthed the second half with the sound down, listening to psychedelic music. It was great.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:21 (nineteen years ago)

"Except a goodly bunch of the yellow cards were for time-wasting and general insanity after play was already stopped. I felt bad for the ref. The game was seriously bonkers and you could tell he was desperately trying to get it under control, but to no avail. And fact is almost every one of those yellow cards (although the last Holland red was silly) were totally deserved in my eyes."

OTM, Alex.

But knobheads like Tyldesley tend not to understand the rules of football and see 16 cards as evidence of a bad ref rather than dirty players. It drives me mad when they trot out lines like "oh, he booked too many people early on" from the same pundits who then complain later in the game that the ref is being inconsistent. Either it's a yellow card offence or it's not.

And why did the Netherlands wear the 1970s Crystal Palace kit?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:47 (nineteen years ago)

Indeed if anything the ref was being lenient. You can't blame him for the high tackles, trips from behind, play acting, time wasting, handbaggery and other cockfarming.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 26 June 2006 06:54 (nineteen years ago)

You can blame him for his inability to assert his authority though. You think Collina would've let that happen?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:15 (nineteen years ago)

Incidentally, as of this weekend, my housemate now has A YELLOW CARD SIGNED BY PIERLUIGI COLLINA! Serious. If it was a red it would be the best thing in the world.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:16 (nineteen years ago)

You can get a " Let's Kick Tydesley Out Of Football" t-shirt. A bit strong, if you ask me.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

Do they do one in Motson?

― Half loaf, half pompadour (noodle vague), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:23 (nineteen years ago)

I think a 1-0 win with a Beckham freekick is the worst sort of England victory cos it means DB will remain immune to the threat of tactical substitution much less actually being dropped from starting XI. Who knows what England might've conjured from open play with Lennon on for most of the the second half.

Portugal should take England apart but last night's comic capers (plus the fact that Lampard must surely blast one in soon) suggests that England will get lucky again. 2-1, Croxteth Traitor & Phat Phrank; Spain to finally put us out of our misery in the semis (though, who knows, they'll probably have eight players suspended by then).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:47 (nineteen years ago)

Call me a hopelessly naive idealist, but I was shocked - shocked! - that the Dutch tactics for the first 10 minutes were so blatantly to kick Ronaldo off the park. Less brilliant than blood orange.

I have a phunny pheeling England are going to phluke it all the way to the phinal.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:53 (nineteen years ago)

itv caption box last night read 'POR-NED' ('poor ned')

commentators did point out that people started diving when they realised the ref had yellow fever and i think that, and the desperation later on, contributed to the number of bookings. england had a couple for timewasting as well iirc. not that that stopped the goalkeeper going on to feign injury...

"Well..."

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

The worse England play, the more likely it seems to me that they will win the sodding thing.

Beckham joins Paula Radcliffe in the hallowed ranks of national heroes "doing their business" in front of millions of spectators.

Excellent analysis, Koogy. The Holte End years certainly paid off.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:57 (nineteen years ago)

Despite the 'drop Beckham' clanger growing, if anyone should make way for 4-4-2 and a holding midfielder it's Lampard. He seems to have completely lost the plot.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 07:58 (nineteen years ago)

Terry looked
out of sorts i.e piss-poor, too. Maybe Mourinho's nobbled them to help his country beat England.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 26 June 2006 08:04 (nineteen years ago)

matt dc otm.

beckham so far has contributions to 3 of the 6 goals england scored.

lampard's contrib = loads of shots off target and misplaced passes.

lol maybe they should play that 3 5 1 thing again with becks in central midfield lols????

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 26 June 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

Christ, England are a dull football team.

― Lamphardly (Sans Sushi), Monday, 26 June 2006 08:55 (nineteen years ago)

acutlaly 3 5 1 would involve one player getting sent off as well (prolly gerrard)

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 26 June 2006 09:03 (nineteen years ago)

After tomorrow, there is a rest until Friday. Will the National Grid be able to cope with all the kettles being switched on for all that time? And what are we going to do?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 26 June 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

Netherlands away kit, 2006
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/07/02/image561494x.jpg

USA home kit, 1950
http://www.soccer.com/Images/Catalog/ProductImages/600/119325.JPG

― caek (caek), Monday, 26 June 2006 09:42 (nineteen years ago)

I loved watching Gabby, Ruud and Terry earnestly trying to pretend that this isn't how we like to see football played, while grinning ear to ear.

i thought that Ruud had been passing round the funny cigarettes, they were either stoned or pissed by the end anyway...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

I just find it funny that before every game, England's opponents are always being underestimated and will surely tear England apart... until England beat them, then it becomes that they were never any great thing anyway. I suppose otherwise it gets in the way of the orgy of gloom that the supporters revel in.

So far ENG have only faced teams that have played defensive and cautious/nervous football - which suggests they had somewhat different ideas about ENG that their supporters do - so going against an attacking side should be a quite different test. Providing they don't collapse into negativity and defeatism as they often do when things aren't going their way - and even when they are - England may just hold Portugal off, if they're lucky.

After tomorrow, there is a rest until Friday. And what are we going to do?

Wimbledon.

― David Orton (scarlet), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

The "England are bad" chants seem to be changing subtly into "England are boring". I think if they play more unattractive football and do just enough to win against Portugal there will be a big debate about whether we want to win the World Cup that way and then if we get into the prize will seem so close everyone will stop caring.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

"then if we get into the final, the prize will seem so close"

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:46 (nineteen years ago)

The only period of play in this World Cup when England have come under any kind of pressure at all was in the first 15 or 20 mins of the second half against Sweden and they nearly crumbled to dust. They could just be lucky enough to fluke this though - last minute long range winner from Lampard against Portugal (after 6,000 attempts have found row Z) will ensure that everyone conveniently forgets that he has stunk the place out in every game so far.

― Venga (Venga), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

I just find it funny that before every game, England's opponents are always being underestimated and will surely tear England apart...

Where are you getting that from?

Oh, and that cautious, nervous, defensive thing: I'll give you T&T in terms of domination of possession and chances but have a wee look at the stats for the other three games.

ENGLAND ECUADOR
Possession
51% 49%
Shots on target
4 4
Shots off target
4 8
Corners
5 7

SWEDEN ENGLAND
Possession
46% 54%
Shots on target
6 7
Shots off target
7 11
Corners
13 6

ENGLAND PARAGUAY
Possession
56% 44%
Shots on target
6 5
Shots off target
7 11
Corners
6 1

Totals for three games:
England SweParEcu
Shots on target
17 15
Lampards
22 26
Corners
17 21

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

If we beat Portugal, that makes this our best performance since Italia 90 which seems faintly ridiculous considering the poor quality of the football on offer. Which is the worst team we could feasibly meet in the semis - France maybe? But then if they get past Spain and Brazil...

I've just realised. England aren't Greece 2004. We're Germany 2002.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:00 (nineteen years ago)

EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING THAT, MATT.

(I have been listening to the radio too much)

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

Anyway, I am firmly of the belief that I, and most other people, are rubbish at noticing the things that go towards winning a football match. Also that it's hard to distinguish when opposition is bad and when they are made to look bad.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

Seems Figo might be in trouble.

-- caek (ung...), Today 12:17 AM. (caek) (later) (link)

Curses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/portugal/5116722.stm

― caek (caek), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

Considering how cautious Sven was re: the largely ineffectual Ecuadorian wingers (to the extent of being about to sub Bridge for Joey Cole before DB scored), I wonder what he plans against the Portuguese?

If I were Simao/Ronaldo, the prospect of running at a right side of Beckham and Hargreaves would have me giddy with glee. At the risk of sounding like a bore on the matter, I would play Stevie G on the right of midfield.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:22 (nineteen years ago)

We are gonna get so whooped by Portugal. They've been great, and even without Deco (and possibly Ronaldo?) they've still got enough attacking nounce to batter our shoddy defending back to Blighty. I would be surprised by anything other than a Portugese rout.

Which means England gets a lucky win, the ball bouncing off Crouch's arse and into the goal in the 88th.

― Johnny B Was Quizzical (Johnney B), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:46 (nineteen years ago)

If we beat Portugal, that makes this our best performance since Italia 90 which seems faintly ridiculous considering the poor quality of the football on offer.

But we were rubbish in 1990 as well! OK, good performance in the 0-0 vs Holland, but the displays against Eire and Egypt were dire, the 119th-min Platt volley vs Belgium is the only memorable thing about that match and we were seven minutes from elimination vs Cameroon (I never saw that q-f, I was wandering lovestruck around Worcester). We reached the q-f having scored three goals!

The semifinal was glorious, however, and is probably the source of the whole "play better against better opposition" thing which always gets trotted out when decent opponents loom into view.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

"Wandering lovestruck around Worcester" should be a title of a chapter in the Steady Mike autobiography. Which itself should be titled "Speke, Memory".

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

Crystal Palace, 1978-1982
http://www.toffs.com/content/ebiz/toffs/invt/1355/1355_m.jpg

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

Can we have a moratorium on balls bouncing off mediocre striker's arses please? I'm going for a 3-0 England win, with a Theo Walcott hattrick.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

Well it would be nice for the lad to at least get a kick of the ball. Who else in the squad hasn't played yet? Bridge, Jenas and the keepers. Is that it?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, has anyone ever scored at this level with their arse? If it was that common an occurrence, I'm sure there'd be a Danny Baker video compilation.

"Wandering lovestruck around Worcester" should be a title of a chapter in the Steady Mike autobiography.

"2-2" someone said in a pub. Only five weeks later did I realise they'd taken a sneaky peak at my degree result.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

William Hill give 101/1 for that!

xpost

― Johnny B Was Quizzical (Johnney B), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

Who else in the squad hasn't played yet? Bridge, Jenas and the keepers. Is that it?

Lampard?

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:22 (nineteen years ago)

post of the week.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:30 (nineteen years ago)

the ball bouncing off Crouch's arse

He'll have to grow one first.

― StanM (StanM), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

Totti dropped.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:07 (nineteen years ago)

England will fancy their chances against depleted Portugal, and it's a chance for REVENGE after Euro 2004 exit...this aspect should not be discounted as a means of firing them up and making them raise their game. I bloody hope so anyway.

It will be strange seeing so many of the same players playing each other again two years on. But no Owen, no Rui Costa, no Costinha or Deco. Maybe we can have Rooney play against them for the whole game this time. Maybe that can make the difference. Maybe there will be another disputed goal ala Sol's header. Another appearance from HELDER COXING POSTIGA. It's very exciting because of the deja-vu combined with, er, newness.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

kewell most likely out for australia. :(

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

It's likely to be much for exciting for the neutral (or even the jealous Scot) than any of England's previous efforts. I think there'll be less of an "England expects" aura around it and the England players will know they're up against it and have to raise their game accordingly.

All that remains to be seen is whether they can do it. With the midfielders they have at their disposal I'd have thought England would have bossed some of their previous games (like scarlet thinks they did). If Gerrard and Lampard suddenly decide to play as we know they can on a good day then I think it'll be a cracker.

It's a shame for Portugal that Deco is missing out, but I can't feel too sorry for him because he's a diving cheating moaning cheating cynical wee cheating bastard.

xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

much *more* exciting, even

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

Dutch were gutted after losing to Portugal two years ago so must feel even worse now. England must not allow themselves to succumb to same. It's been difficult so far to see how the team have improved since 2004. Really it seems that they have not - only specific individual players have. So must look to them to engineer the victory. Or it will be Rio or somebody missing the sixth penalty again.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

omg camera fuck-up! this is fantastic

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

it's like playing Actua Soccer on a Sega Dreamcast, in slow mo

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

ah no they've fixed it already.

i think i preferred the other view.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

ah no they've fixed it already.

Those Italians don't mess about.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41810000/jpg/_41810844_scolarihalf416.jpg

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

slightly off topic, what happened to that ginormous england flag i saw on the news, the one that was the size of a double bed when folded up?

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

sort of amazing to me that scott chipperfield is playing in the back three, he was an out-and-out winger or someone who played off a centre-forward when he left australia five years ago!

great try from gilardino just then.

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

"You can blame him for his inability to assert his authority though. You think Collina would've let that happen?"

You don't think he was trying to assert his authority?!?!? What else exactly was he supposed to do?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:24 (nineteen years ago)

what happened to that ginormous england flag i saw on the news, the one that was the size of a double bed when folded up?

Flying from the world's largest Ford Transit?

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

I really don't think the ref had that bad a game last night. The Dutch went out to dive, and then got frustrated when he wouldn't give any penalties. The Portuguese got frustrated that the Dutch were diving and suddenly everyone started kicking each other. Perhaps it was a pity that sendings off came after accumulations of two yellows, but deliberate hand-balls etc gave him no choice. The Ducth went out with the wrong attitude and got what they deserved.

But fair play England will fox the Portugese giving us plenty of opportunities to whip 'em. We won't take them but...

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

the five live commentators are refering to a big banner the australians have which "says, in no uncertain terms, what the australian fans think of players who dive/don't get up after a tackle" unfortunately they haven't said exactly what it says, i am assuming it sa: "get up yer poof" or similar, confirmation of this banner appearing on tv would be delightful ;)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

Hey Ben!

I'm half working, half watching the game. It seems pretty even so far, would you say?

NERVES NERVES NERVES

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

i am officially anti-england now. sorry, fellas. i just can't stand rooney's fugly face.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

Oh come on he's a handsome chap. The kinda boy you'd love to take home to meet your ma.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:56 (nineteen years ago)

Netherlands home kit for their first international against Belgium in 1905:

http://us.macbay.de/oranjehemden/photo/1905.jpg

― caek (caek), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

"Oi..Reberto...passda Pringelz"

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

I am sure there a many a ma's eyes which would go KERCHING if someone brought home Wayne Rooney. "He has to buy all his own pies mind".

Surprisingly even game so far. I thought the Aussies would walk it!

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

As Graham Taylor once famously said, "I do not like lack of Oranje".

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 14:59 (nineteen years ago)

on the spanish channel they called beckham "el spiceman"

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:03 (nineteen years ago)

Materazzi just sent off!

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

Hooray, the first red. I thought something was missing from this game.

― David Orton (scarlet), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

Mark, I missed the last twenty minutes of the first half putting new innards into a toilet. Not MY innards, plumbing innards. Not MY plumbing, the kind you buy at Home Depot. That's a job a ought to have done doing a USA game.

Oh my. Another insane red card.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

He wasn't the last man, and it wasn't a clear goal-scoring opportunity. Two defenders getting in what Scottish football commentators like to call "a fankle".

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:08 (nineteen years ago)

i can't remember the last time i saw a team play significantly worse after having a player sent off. it's still assumed that it will result in cave-in but rarely seems to.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

So he just got a straight red card??!?! What the hell did he do?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Besides a goal? Maybe Italy do need North Jersey boy Giuseppe Rossi more than the USA do.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Materazzi is:

A - an Italian pizza
B - an Italian motorcycle
C - a stupid clogger of a defender

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

I'm just waiting to see how reality-based the inevitable make-up red card will be.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

I'm feeling Extra time penalties all over this game now we've had the sending off. Italy will defend more, but the Aussies don't look like scoring. Here come the grind.

(And Italy will win on Pens).

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

chris waddle's pronunciation of pirlo: p-y-ear-l-urgh. also he just made a totti/totty joke...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

(And Italy will win on Pens).

That'll be a first.

― David Orton (scarlet), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

does ANYONE except the germans consistently win on pens?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:36 (nineteen years ago)

Brazil

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:37 (nineteen years ago)

I am watching this via BBC online which still managed to piss me off by interrupting the ebb and flow of updates by printing Chris Waddle's banal soundbites from 5 Live.

― Pete W (peterw), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, that game last night was magnificent!

Tyldesley sounded mournful when he said 'It's going to be a *fourth* dismissal!...' - there was a lament in his voice that was engaging for a change.

Because of suspensions, I think England will win. I note that England, unlike Holland last night, do not dive - the one good thing about them, apart from the fact that they occasionally play players who will shortly depart White Hart Lane.

Speke, Memory: I must have heard this before - but it was worth hearing again!

U&K: tomorrow's Latin Quarter pre-quarter-final.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

Argentina have never lost a World Cup penalty shoot out neither not no.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:44 (nineteen years ago)

in contast to Tyldesley there was much cheering at the 4th red card in the bar i watched the game in. value for money entertainment, suggesting the man's out of touch. but then again, he's in a difficult position.

this World Cup is far too cagey. Will there be a 3-2 or 4-3 at all?

I note that England, unlike Holland last night, do not dive

well Owen's gone but i fear Gerrard may still fancy his chances.

i hope Ghana beat Brazil and i REALLY hope Spain finally beat France again (how long has it been?). and somehow Ukraine and Switzerland BOTH go out.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:46 (nineteen years ago)

Will there be a 3-2 or 4-3 at all?

forgot Ivory Coast v Serbinegro already

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

After watching Switzerland in Geneva on Friday, I so want them to go though and put out Ukraine and their nasty tiger stripes.

Last minute something happens - ITS A PENALTY ITALY

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

Fuck's sake, Italian penalty in the 93rd minute for the diviest dive ever!

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

oh this is bloody ridiculous ref

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

FUCKS SAKE.

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

Gutted. Poor POOR Australia :-(

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

And Italy are through!

It wasn't really a dive Ailsa.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

Italy = JAMMY COONTS

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:51 (nineteen years ago)

well it certainly wasn't a challenge to bring him down. so what was it?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

I prefer Italy to Australia.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

it was a fall, i guess.

stupid ref.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

He was looking for the penalty. And it made me cross. And that makes me exaggerate. It seemed about as much a penalty as the sending off was at the other end (i.e. not really that clear-cut). That better?

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Where's Matt DC when you need him?

A player looking to get past the defender could have jumped over him. Any player in the world is going down there, though - the defender was literally lying in front of both his feet. Clear-cut spot kick.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:54 (nineteen years ago)

Chinaglia in the studio couldn't even manage to gloat through his shit-eating grin.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

Flukey diving bastards.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:55 (nineteen years ago)

agree there. this ref should be sent home along with Poll. not that this ref and Poll actually live in the same home. although, perhaps...

Clear-cut spot kick.

bollocks!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

It was obstruction, it is the game.

Admittedly the ref was a bit ropey, the sending off was wrong, but the Aussies did not capitalise on it. But yet again, all these teams seem beatable. Its coming down to the psychology.

Yes, kiss and make-up. Strangely the games seem to be going to some sort of if not moral victors but the teams who seem to be playing the game aggressively, and to win (even England) - the teams who take their chance, however they are set up.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

dear five live

please find a pundit who, unlike chris waddle, can at least pronounce PENALTY, rather than saying PELANTY...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not saying the Italin dived tho. i think he fell over (not necess. obstruction). i suppose ultimately you can't blame the ref for thinking otherwise tho, depending on his position. it's just one of those stupid things.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

This has been the worst officiating I have ever seen at a World Cup. After the comedy of errors that was Holland-Portugal, I figured it couldn't get any worse. WRONG! Australia deserved better than that. I hope that FIFA reviews some tape, and takes appropriate action against some of these refs. What a fucking joke. I'm not even close to Australian, and I'm so angry that I don't know what to do with myself. An absolute insult to the Aussies.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Any player in the world is going down there, though - the defender was literally lying in front of both his feet.

So cheating's OK when it's your team is it, Mark?

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

but it wasn't cheating, he just fell! it shouldn't have been a penalty but what can be done?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:02 (nineteen years ago)

Strangely the games seem to be going to some sort of if not moral victors but the teams who seem to be playing the game aggressively, and to win (even England) - the teams who take their chance, however they are set up.

I think you could make a case for Portugal being moral victors, just about. I wouldn't say the Italians were moral victors, or even that they were playing to win (I think they were playing for 0-0 and hoping the Australians would die of old age), they were just being Italian footballers: cynical fouling, a touch of diving, excellent defending and rapid breaks. It's effective, but not really exciting.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

> I hope that FIFA reviews some tape, and takes appropriate action against some of these refs.

not forgetting the diving players.

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

hiddink cocked up his tactics for once. aloisi should've been on 20 minutes earlier and we really didn't stretch the italian defense enough.

but, we've copped shit refs in each game, simple as that. that 'penalty' was pathetic.

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:05 (nineteen years ago)

Another terrible refereeing decision in this World Cup Shockah!

― Aussie (Sans Sushi), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

On the plus side, no more close-ups of Viduka's smug, punchable face!

― edward o (edwardo), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, he was looking for the penalty. He *was*. As most players would, yes, if you had 30 seconds to get through to the quarter-finals of the World Cup. It's what players do. Doesn't mean it's defensible.

(xpost)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

but yet more of Totti's alas.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

Hypothetically, if an Austrlian lay down on the edge of the six-yard box and fell asleep, and an Italian striker walked towards him from the half-way line, very, very slowly for about a minute until he finally reached the player who he had had in his sights for quite some time, and then tumbled over him in slow motion, would that be a penalty?

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

fuck you, italy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

Any player in the world is going down there, though - the defender was literally lying in front of both his feet.

So cheating's OK when it's your team is it, Mark?

It wasn't cheating! The defender was LYING ON THE GROUND BETWEEN THE ATTACKER AND THE GOAL. Which part of the word "obstruction" is giving you trouble? Although he didn't need to fall over, you can't deny that his path was blocked thereby preventing or lessening a goalscoring chance. And there's zero partisanship involved here, thank you for the inference.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

I think it was a penalty. The Aussie defender deliberately leans backwards and tries to stop the Italian. Sure, the Italian fell down easilly and could have jumped over him, but that's besides the point.

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:10 (nineteen years ago)

Harsh but not really unfair. To go sprawling on the ground in the box like that - in the dying seconds! - is going to send anyone flying.
Sad though, the Aussies were more entertaining than Italy but this World Cup is all about The Old Guard, not plucky underdogs.

― David Orton (scarlet), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

last 2 posts OTM.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

No way that was a penalty. It was a dirty dive, the type for which the Italians are famous. The thing is that for most of the game, the Italians appeared to have abandoned their traditional dive and flop approach to the beautiful game. In the end, some habits are just too deeply ingrained. Absolutely ridiculous.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

Although he didn't need to fall over, you can't deny that his path was blocked thereby preventing or lessening a goalscoring chance

but if it can be ascertained that he didn't 'need' to fall over, how does the ref then go ahead with penalty decision? he does so simply because the player did fall over. if the player had managed to jump over the downed defender, which seems quite conceivable in this instance, there would presumably be no foul given.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:15 (nineteen years ago)

the ball seemed to get past OK, do you think your players are stupider than the ball mark??

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

i'm basically saying you'd need a better ref - one who was able to judge, correctly imo, that it was just a fall. how the ref would manage to do this tho i have no idea! but it would've been nice!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:17 (nineteen years ago)

In that situation, the player would be asleep = can't move out of the way = no penalty. xpost

Any striker in the world would have gone down in that position. Is it diving? It's more looking for the penalty - there's a subtle difference in there.

If anything is to blame, it's Australian inexperience and nieve defending. You don't go to ground inside the penalty area in extra time when you're drawing with a ten-men Italy. There was no need for him to dive in (it was a pretty shit challenge anyway) and he really shouldn't have given the Italian the opportunity to fall over him.

― Johnny B Was Quizzical (Johnney B), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:18 (nineteen years ago)

Advantage could be given. Though of course jumping, with studs involved, could be dangerous play?

I wouldn't say the Italians were moral victors, rather that the Aussies didn't really press home their advantage (hello England Brazil 2002) and therefore didn't have the "right stuff". Italians defended very well mind you, and showed their class in a different way.

I imagine Switzerland will put them out though.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:20 (nineteen years ago)

In that situation, the player would be asleep = can't move out of the way = no penalty. xpost

Still hypothetically - would it be a free-kick to Australia, as the Italian had basically chosen to walk into the sleeping defender?

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

why? Switzerland are gawdawful rubbish.

well now we've managed to point blame at the Italian, the ref and the Australian perhaps it's now time to move on to Peter Drury, or perhaps the machinations of capitalism generally.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:21 (nineteen years ago)

Mark, you're the one who's saying that a player looking to get past the defender could have done so but he chose not to, i.e. he looked for the penalty. In fact, he *chose* to. And, come on, you really saying if Viduka had done it at the other end you wouldn't be crying all manner of unfairness? (apologies obviously, though, for suggesting that people be partisan towards their own team)

(I realise other people have made this point about obstruction too, but I was skimming the thread due to xposting, poxy-fuling and having real-life stuff to attend to, so you got the short straw. Can I make it clear that I think the ref had a shitty decision to make, he got it wrong, but he wasn't helped at ALL by the Italian bloke's dive/fall/stumble/being-recklessly-scythed-down. I *know* players do it all the time, I just don't agree with defending it on those grounds)

mega xpost, obviously

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

Still hypothetically - would it be a free-kick to Australia, as the Italian had basically chosen to walk into the sleeping defender?

A proper ref would already have sent off the Italian for sleeping on the job.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:22 (nineteen years ago)

Australian I mean.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:23 (nineteen years ago)

The Olive Garden defeats the Outback Steakhouse 1-0 with a thrilling stoppage time penalty kick

― INSANE CLOWN FOSSE (Adrian Langston), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:25 (nineteen years ago)

A proper ref would already have sent off the Italian for sleeping on the job

Surely it merits only a stern talking to. Perhaps a finger wag.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:26 (nineteen years ago)

BOTTOMLESS SALAD BOWL TOPS BLOOMIN' ONION

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

Mark, you're the one who's saying that a player looking to get past the defender could have done so but he chose not to, i.e. he looked for the penalty.

No, I said he could have got past the player but his momentum, timing etc would have been compromised, hecne the penalty being justifiable.

And, come on, you really saying if Viduka had done it at the other end you wouldn't be crying all manner of unfairness?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

Well the sleeping player would not see the finger wag. (xpost2)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:28 (nineteen years ago)

No, what you said was "A player looking to get past the defender could have jumped over him." I'm not arguing semantics on this. I do admire your coolly indifferent shoulder-shrugging attitude to possibly seeing your team dumped out on a dubious decision. I want to start being the sort of football fan that inhabits your world.

(hugglez!)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

Well the sleeping player would not see the finger wag.

He would if he had been roused (or even aroused) by the Italian strolling into him.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

I was hoping Australia would win, Ailsa, but I've got to agree with the penalty. Grosso's cut-back made Neill miss the ball entirely with that lunge. Grosso probably could have jumped over Neill, but that really doesn't matter-- Neill, after failing to play the ball, left himself tightly between the ball and the attacker, and it's not the attacker's problem to play through a blown tackle. That's a direct free kick anywhere on the field, so it's a penalty.

Grosso's decision not to try to avoid getting tripped up by Neill seems ignoble to me, too, but that's not the way the laws are written.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:51 (nineteen years ago)

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5448/1003221326597988fi.jpg

― INSANE CLOWN FOSSE (Adrian Langston), Monday, 26 June 2006 16:54 (nineteen years ago)

It wasn't cheating! The defender was LYING ON THE GROUND BETWEEN THE ATTACKER AND THE GOAL. Which part of the word "obstruction" is giving you trouble?

Can I just point out that "obstruction" is an indirect free-kick, not a penalty?

Having said that, when I saw it live in real time I did immediately think "penalty", so I wasn't surprised it was given, we all have the benefit of replays.

― Si.C@rter (SiC@rter), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:03 (nineteen years ago)

Grosso probably could have jumped over Neill, but that really doesn't matter

I think it does/should because had he jumped, the ref would surely not have blown and this highlights the flimsiness of such situations. To me it's more that Neill's lunge is unimportant as he doesn't even make contact with the player until Grosso tumbles over him.

Grosso's decision not to try to avoid getting tripped up by Neill seems ignoble to me, too, but that's not the way the laws are written.

True maybe but if no foul had been given, would there have been this same level of outrage/controversy/questioning from anyone bar Italians? Less, I feel.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:07 (nineteen years ago)

In other news, I am so glad that in the cut and thrust world of international news and politics, ITV's evening news is getting its priorities right by leading (for the first seven minutes of their evening bulletin) with an exclusive interview with Michael Owen in which he bleats a bit about letting everyone down.

You ain't letting me down, mate, FWIW, now piss off and get your leg fixed so you can be average for Newcastle against next season.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:10 (nineteen years ago)

Direct free kicks are awarded when a defending player tackles with the intention of winning the ball, but makes contact with the attacking player first.

In this case, Neill never touched the ball, but he certainly made contact with Grosso. "Obstruction" tends to be called when an attacking player is trying to get to a pass from another player, and a defender prevents that attacker from playing the ball without attempting to play the ball himself. It was the tackle, and Neill's play after, that was penalized.

― Dickerson Pike (Dickerson Pike), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:20 (nineteen years ago)

I think it was David who said that the defender kind of leaned in towards Grosso looking to stop him, he's OTM. On first sight I thought dive but on the replay - he most certainly did not do his upmost to get out of the way, in fact quite the opposite.

Nobody noted above that the fiurst thing Aloisi did as soon as he got on the pitch was to go down like a cheap whore, lookimg for a free kick on the edhge of the area.

I thought Totti's penalty was tremendous, doesn't make me like him at all, but it was very very good indeed.

I'm taking tonight's game off, not sure how that'll work..

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:48 (nineteen years ago)

they were just reshowing bits of the Italy-S.Korea game in '02 and the decisions that went against Italy then. just out of interest, where is that Mauritian ref now?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:52 (nineteen years ago)

"The two least fancied teams in the second round, competing to be the least fancied team in the quarter finals." Thank you Gary.

I thought that ref was Colombian? Byron Moreno, wasn't it?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:53 (nineteen years ago)

Back to the "sleeping defender" hypothesis for a second. I believe a player who is asleep on the field of play would be removed - and usually before anyone had the chance to run into him. After all the symptoms of "sleep" and "unconsciousness" can only be determined by attempting to rouse said player. If roused, player will not be asleep. If not rousable due to head injury/very deep sleep one should call an ambulance post haste.

Now admitted in a game as dull as Italy / Australia a case could be made for the defender just falling asleep on the spot. If an eagle eyed ref had spotted it in advance then the game should have been stopped at that moment - perhaps resulting in a drop ball (which neither team would attack cos they never do - except in the Holland Portugal game where the Portugays kicked the Dutch up in the air for it).

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

what happens if a player faints? i imagine the same procedure would follow.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

nice bit of cheek kissing from the two captains there

because Shevchenko needs to look MORE effeminate...

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

My comment on tonight's game, as a foreigner living in Switzerland:

Nati punks
Nati punks
Nati punks
Fuck OFF!!!!

Thank you.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:05 (nineteen years ago)

Returning to the sleeping defender hypothesis: what if the advancing Italian was himself sleepwalking?

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:36 (nineteen years ago)

WTF BBC

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:52 (nineteen years ago)

Erm, that was the most cringeworthy thirty seconds of punditry I have ever seen. WTF SHEARER?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

Highlights sufficiently sparse that the halftime coverage includes a segment devoted to some people kissing. And highlights of... yesterday's games.

Lawro's been relegated to the studio this evening, primarily to talk over Leonardo. During a replay of Shevchenko's header against the bar, Leo must have tried to say "He's very dangerous in the box" at least three or four times. Either that, or he was muttering a lot.

McClaren's being interrogated by Garth Crooks, and appears to be responding in the manner of the missing 15th Apprentice candidate.

Too many whistles in the crowd. Bloody annoying.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

fantastic new sport opportunity presents itself re snoozeball - more exciting than it sounds

i like McClaren's voice, i have decided.

too many cards not enough goals in this crap second round.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:59 (nineteen years ago)

ALAN SHEARER IS NOT A HOMOSEXUAL HAVE YOU ALL GOT THAT?!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

Shearer attempts to become less uninteresting...with some sort of results. this is not quite as bad as Motson's "Homer" joke re Greece two years ago.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:19 (nineteen years ago)

Mick McCarthy's Yorkshire voice is snoring boring. He's like a dullard bloke in a Yorkshire Working Man's Club rambling on and on.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:23 (nineteen years ago)

What is the break down on the Swiss squad? How many are Swiss-German, Swiss-French or Swiss-Italian?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:28 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, I'm glad you caught that Matt DC, it was becoming one of those moments where I was thinking, "Did I just imagine that?"

IDIOCY ALL TOO REAL

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:34 (nineteen years ago)

McCarthy shares his wisdom: if you commit people forwards in attack you can get caught on the break. This is the kind of penetrating insight that made him so successful at Sunderland, and earns him his place at the pinnacle of punditry.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:35 (nineteen years ago)

a cure for insomnia has been found, listening to mick mccarthy's voice

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:43 (nineteen years ago)

Breakdown of Swiss team is pretty close to that of Switzerland itself, with a few more Swiss German (and some people who would NEVER have gotten citizenship if they couldn't play football).

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

every time someone mentions Hakan Yakin all I can hear is Muttley giggling away

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

the Swiss haven't really played a half-decent team in a 'competetitive game' since Euro 2004. this would explain their clean sheet streak. their qualifying group with France and Ireland was a real dearth for the most part.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

God, the BBC coverage of this is so fucking.... GRAAAH. YES, THIS IS NOT THE GREATEST GAME OF FOOTBALL EVER. WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY. The one sensible comment made was when Leonardo said they'd been overtaken by the fear of losing, all the while Shearer and Lawrenson were trying to make out like Switzerland are in some way consciously attempting to "destroy the game of football" or something. not even a single stepover! Heavens a-fucking-bove! Why not pick out some particularly boring bits, comment on why they are boring, try and perhaps fucking illuminate the game slightly, eh? Take your fucking years of experience and expertise at the highest level and DO SOMETHING WITH IT FOR ONCE, YOU SMIRKING BUNCH OF CUNTS!

Also: word to Guy Mowbray. Stop acting like this match is in some way beneath you. It ain't a classic, but fuck knows you aren't either.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

In these situations I remain more annoyed with the players than the commentators and pundits I must say.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

The sarcastic commentary/punditry is the only reason to keep watching.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

And to think they're delaying the BBC News at 10 for this. At least the news has tanks, explosions etc.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

ohhhhhhhh ! has WBS switched uni courses again? to BA Media Production ?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

At least the news has tanks, explosions etc.

Not the ITV news. They've got Michael Owen's rampant egotism.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

how does this game compare to Bulgaria v Mexico in '94 btw? that was probably relatively exciting for a 0-0 but i can't be sure.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I know, but it's the attitude of the pundits, as though Ukraine and Switzerland are unworthy of the summarising talents of Alan Shearer. Yes, it's a dull game, there's not many shots or anything, but talk of them "killing the game of football"? It's like they're sulking because this doesn't feature any players that are in the Nike adverts. They don't seem to have any interest in trying to sell the game, and they don't seem to have done from the start of the programme, really. It's not a great game, but surely the role of a punditry and commentary team is to try and enhance the viewing experience somewhat. Shearer whining that there's not been any offside calls in the game - how does that help, really?

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:17 (nineteen years ago)

i like switzerland a lot. i dont see whats so bad about them, people just angry with a team that shows a bit of patience.

― duff (duff), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:19 (nineteen years ago)

they're just annoyed they dont get to say "naive defending" and "they'll be dancing on the streets of berne tonight"

― duff (duff), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

xxxpost
Rampant egotism, really? I thought it was a nice, slightly depressed man, awkwardly hosting a news team against his better judgment.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:21 (nineteen years ago)

I'm Australian and a little upset about us being bundled out of the World Cup, but fuck am I glad I'll never have to listen to Chris Waddle ever again.I'll have to rethink my opinion about Ian Chappell being the worst most negative moany whiny pain in the arse broken record I could have done better it wasn't like that in my day it's ridiculous and I can't believe it so I'll just bang on about it all fucking game moron commentator in world sports. Twat.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:22 (nineteen years ago)

"how does this game compare to Bulgaria v Mexico in '94 btw?"

I was at that game -- and it was pretty much a billion times more interesting/exciting than this, primarily b/c of getting to watch Hristo Stoichkov run like a madman, thwarted at every turn. This game just sucks.

― Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

people just angry with a team that shows a bit of patience.

they were so poor at Euro 2004, it's the memory of that still...but i don't see much evidence that they've really improved since then. i was quite shocked when they beat Turkey to qualify. generally they seem like a really dull team to watch. i'd rather watch Italy or indeed England if i want to see a team grind it out and then pounce opportunistically when the moment arises.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

ha ha, McCarthy agrees with me that neither team should be allowed through to the quarter-finals.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:27 (nineteen years ago)

(actually, Mowbray's not too bad, I suppose. He's just trying a bit too hard to be smart-arsed, and he's not very good at it, but he is calling the action fair enough. McCarthy's sort of like a kindly but very boring uncle)

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

apparently the Swiss youth team is shit hot tho.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:28 (nineteen years ago)

Eyes down for the first shootout of the tournament, then.

― William Bloody Swygart (mrswygart), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

PENALTIES OMG!!!

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

i feel like the Swiss are going to win the shootout just because i've been slagging them off so much.

i've been wanting Ukraine to win purely because i thought they looked more impressive in qualifying, and would perform better once here but they haven't at all.

Lawrowatch update: "for a game played in Cologine it stunk"

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:30 (nineteen years ago)

And to think the winner of this will face the well-organised Italian defence. Oh, the anticipation...

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

SHEVY CHASTE!!!

― zappi (joni), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

Neither team can score even with penalty kicks.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

hahahaha!!! this is just sooooooooooooooo shit

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

(I wasn't actually listening to Michael Owen's press conference, I was in the other room, but I just heard a lot of "letting the nation down" and "being sorry" and stuff, which struck me as the sort of thing you say if you think you're brilliant)

That was a great penalty!

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:34 (nineteen years ago)

BAR!

ha ha, come on then Ukraine

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:35 (nineteen years ago)

Has a team ever missed all 5 penalty kicks?

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:37 (nineteen years ago)

Dear God, Switzerland are rubbish at taking penalties...

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:37 (nineteen years ago)

Has a team ever missed all 5 penalty kicks?

no cos you can only miss 3 before it's over.

but I just heard a lot of "letting the nation down" and "being sorry" and stuff, which struck me as the sort of thing you say if you think you're brilliant

sort of thing you say if you know there's massive expectations placed on you that you're not quite able to fulfil due to various reasons more like

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:37 (nineteen years ago)

Well I meant both teams missing all 5, but carry on...

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

The Swiss are so patient they've chosen to wait another 50 years

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

"no cos you can only miss 3 before it's over."

Unless the other team miss all 3 too.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

no cos you can only miss 3 before it's over.

err not if the other team is missing too, steve.

― toby (tsg20), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

italy 1 - 0 ukraine (goal in 118th minute)

― duff (duff), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:40 (nineteen years ago)

I predict I will not be taking any time off on Friday to watch that game.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

THAT'S FOR TAKING MY NUMBER PLATES, SWISS BASTARDS!!!!!

Er, I mean, gosh, what a shame.

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

Well I meant both teams missing all 5, but carry on...

sorry, yes.

so is this officially the worst second round ever yet?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:44 (nineteen years ago)

Ukraine's greatest Yorkshireman! I knew he had it in him.

(Steve you're on crack - yesterday's game was brilliant)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:46 (nineteen years ago)

Italy are going to beat the Germans in the final, aren't they?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

That's not possible. They are in the same bracket.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:49 (nineteen years ago)

Actually, scratch that, they're going to beat Spain in the final.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:49 (nineteen years ago)

(Matt, I'm assuming you mean Holland v Portugal, because you are also on crack if you think England v Ecuador was brilliant)

People moaning about pundits are advised to watch the rest of the games on UKTV G2. OK the picture quality is pish, but today's punditry was supplied by Barry Fry and Brian Blessed, who have just been talking about trains in lieu of anything to say about the match. My man not-in-the-pub yesterday informs me that half-time punditry was being supplied by Harvey from So Solid Crew. Gotta be better than Andy sodding Townsend, eh?

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:50 (nineteen years ago)

"so is this officially the worst second round ever yet?"

Crazy. Argentina/Mexico was a great game and the Holland/Portugal was off the wall crazy entertaining.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:51 (nineteen years ago)

When Australia loses something big it's always because Australia's of form [or crap], or the other team is in excellent order. Not this time. That penalty was just lies.

― Hotman Paris Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:56 (nineteen years ago)

Well Australia didn't deserve to win anyway. They were up a man for forty minutes and didn't do squat.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:57 (nineteen years ago)

off not of

(xpost) Yeah, we wasted that one a bit didn't we.

― Hotman Paris Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:58 (nineteen years ago)

Even so, bit rough to invent a penalty five seconds out.

― Hotman Paris Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Monday, 26 June 2006 20:59 (nineteen years ago)

We've had action, adventure, drama and a couple of dullish games. And the promise of a big upset tomorrow as the whole world waits for Ghana to put Africa on the map.

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:01 (nineteen years ago)

Cor love us, what an endurance test. I even turned over to watch about 2/3 of Big Brother and then most of Saxondale. When I turned back to the match the first thing I heard was Mick McCarthy say "pulling teeth", and, behold and lo, they were still slugging it out 0-0 at the 999,9999999,99999999th minute.

― David Orton (scarlet), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:02 (nineteen years ago)

To hark back to Owen, wasn't everyone hating on him and wanting him dropped for being a bit crap before he got this injury and got elevated to hero/god status as a result? And now people are all "we'd have WON if he'd have not been injured", despite the fact that a quick shufty through the first thread would suggest that his retiral from international football for reasons of being crap wasn't too far away and England would have been playing without him anyway had Sven brought much else in the way of a choice.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:05 (nineteen years ago)

Are Switzerland the first team ever to go out of the World Cup without condeding a goal?

― caek (caek), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

Ukraine steals title of 'Most Boring Team In Teh Round of 16' from England. Can England get it back?

The world watches and waits...

― WeWant Nobby (Dough Boy), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:07 (nineteen years ago)

yes, Radio 5 just confirmed this

x-post

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

UKTV presenter bloke "well you'll all remember where you were when Switzerland played the Ukraine. In bed, asleep."

I'm hoping for some huge degree of entertainment to be provided by Ghana v Brazil tomorrow since I shall be nicking off work to go to the pub. Still, if it's dull, at least I'll be in the pub. I hope they have the sound on so I can get suitably rattled at people accusing Ronaldo of being fat and slow.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

Ailsa - I hadn't really noticed anyone mention Owen since he got injured. I don't believe anyone's under any illusions as to how he would've played had he remained 'fit'.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

Dom's been quiet today. I wanted to know what the odds were on Sven wearing a green hat on Saturday.

What better way for Ghana to celebrate fifty years of independence than twatting Brazil tomorrow. ANd I think France Spain could be a bit of a stunner (in as much as a multi-Spanish goal fest)

― Pete (Pete), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to Matt

Yeah, which is why the whole "top story on the ITV news is Michael Owen apologising for letting the nation down" was totally pointless.

(I realise that I'm conflating "the top story on the ITV news" with "what people might actually think", but people do actually take telly news reporting as meaningful and serious, even the tabloidesque guff peddled by ITV. I'm certainly not accusing anyone on here of thinking that Michael Owen would be winning the World Cup for you)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

Also Steve Mexico v Argentina you grouchy old man you.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

two great games (and one of those more for entertainment rather than good football) out of six so far. it's just that the other four have sucked that much.

i missed a lot of Argentina v Mexico as i was in the Reichstag dome when it started. BUT i could actually see the big screens below, one by the Brandenberg Tor and the other in the little stadium they'd erected outside the Reichstag. I missed the goals but I heard the roar from fans of both sides.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:29 (nineteen years ago)

i missed the winner as well despite seeing the final 20 mins or so of the second half back at the hotel. bah.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:34 (nineteen years ago)

Did anyone see that thing - I think it was half time of the Italy Australia match - where they showed what Michael Owen thought of England's win?

They made it look like he was just at home all on his own watching the game, and I just felt sorry for him. He had the meekest celebration of a goal ever.

After feeling sorry for him for a bit, I decided that surely this was recorded sometime after, and he merely cannot act.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Monday, 26 June 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think anyone was going "owen is shit, drop him" before he was injured and i haven't heard anyone bemoaning his loss that much since he's been injured. sadly he's been little more than a footnote.

― michael wells (michael w.), Monday, 26 June 2006 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

The SBS commentator, during the Ukraine v Switzerland yawnfest, canvassed the idea of teams being given the opportunity to proceed directly to the penalty shootout rather than go through the motions of the match for 120 mins...

― Skivvy (Dough Boy), Monday, 26 June 2006 22:37 (nineteen years ago)

Dom's been quiet today. I wanted to know what the odds were on Sven wearing a green hat on Saturday.

Dom's been watching the day's events with REAL LIVE ITALIANS surrounded by REAL LIVE PERONI AND PROSECCO AND GRAPPA.

And that was more of a penalty than it was a red card for Materazzi. So there. Sins of the fathers will be visited on the children, hey Guus?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 26 June 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

And that was more of a penalty than it was a red card for Materazzi.

You are kidding, right?

― Twistie (Dough Boy), Monday, 26 June 2006 23:09 (nineteen years ago)

Materazzi wasn't the last man and there wasn't a clear goalscoring opportunity even if he had been. At least Grosso was brought down with opposing contact in the area.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 26 June 2006 23:11 (nineteen years ago)

Returning to a couple of themes on these threads, last night Leonardo was saying something about how all the Brazil players and Brazil fans believe they are the best team (irrespective of whether they really are or not). One of the key things about England is that I don't think anyone really thinks we are the best team - we might win the World Cup (if our run of luck continues), but we're definitely not the best team. We don't have that mentality of assuming we can beat anyone, and we look at several other nations as being somehow 'naturally' better than us (I mean in general, not just this year): Brazil, Italy, Argentina and Germany for a start. They've all been far more successful than England over the years, and if we play them we're the underdogs. The attitude towards Argentina and Germany (due to crucial defeats, perceived injustices, the occasional war) is rivalry, the attitude to Brazil is admiration (in general), the attitude to Italy is difficult to define. I feel frustrated by them: I think of them as very technically gifted players who believe in playing negatively. Along with Brazilians, Italians are one of the few people who can genuinely believe their country plays the best football, but the two countries seem to have a totally different philosophy about what good football is: on one side showboating attacking flair, on the other supremely organised defences coupled with great patience waiting for one decisive attack. I just don't get the mentality of elevating a clean sheet above all other achievements: England have managed three out of four so far, but no one's been pleased with it. What frustrates me about Italy is that I feel they could be Brazil if they wanted to be, but they choose not to.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 06:42 (nineteen years ago)

"Are Switzerland the first team ever to go out of the World Cup without condeding a goal?"

Yes.

Anyway, about these whinging Aussies — none of them seemed to complain when Kewell hacked down a Japanese forward for THE MOST OBVIOUS PENALTY EVER right after he scored the equaliser for them in the opening game. Had that been given and scored, Australia would have been halfway home by now.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:05 (nineteen years ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong all you Italians in ILXland, but I do think Italian football fans see a real beauty in defence. As a United fan, I'm conditioned to love breathless attacking football (albeit sometimes more perceived than actual reality, as anyone who stood on the Stretty for certain games in the early 80s can attest), but even I can appreciate a Maldini or, these days, a Cannavaro. It's a different kind of beauty, admittedly, but it's what people allude to (I think) when they describe Rio Ferdinand as "elegant".

Incidentally, I agree that penalty was more justified than the red card to Materazzi, and I have no allegiances or axe to grind. I felt sorry for Australia, but Italy weren't the bad guys most neutrals wanted them to be here. In fact, in view of how they went out in Japan/Korea, you could say they were due a few decisions finally going for them this time around. Too bad it happened at the expense of the Aussies, but you could also justifiably say the latter didn't take their chances when they had them.

― David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:05 (nineteen years ago)

xxpost - I envy you. I understand what should be happening here, as it seems similar to Ireland in the glory days - over their heads, but some luck and some pluck and maybe they'll get to hold their heads high. It's a great way to be as a fan, but I'm surrounded by fuckers who think the World Cup is England's for the taking, and anything less will be a failure.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:08 (nineteen years ago)

"As a United fan, I'm conditioned to love breathless attacking football"

Carlisle don't have a reputation for breathless attacking football, do they? Or maybe you're talking about Leeds. Or Newcastle. Or Dundee. Or Sheffield. Or Rotherham. Or some other United?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:14 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think it was a penalty. The red card was also rubbish, and on at least one occasion, the ball went out of bounds without being noticed. Had the ref not been a moron, Italy might have got a goal with the man they shouldn't have lost, or would have otherwise won on a penalty shoot-out, and nobody would have felt aggrieved. When you've got the ball 60% of the time and barely make a dent in goal, especially one man up, well, the case that you don't deserve to win is makeable.

That said, the Italians DID bump up the acting as the game went on, and anyone who says they didn't is kidding themselves.

― edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:14 (nineteen years ago)

There were a couple of moments yesterday when that world class Italian defence was at sixes and sevens, and only poor Aussie finishing saved them.

I was happy with the penalty. It was Lucas Neill and he deserves it.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:15 (nineteen years ago)

Teh Hobb OTM. For starters, you get a sense with england that they don't believe. When they stepped onto the field against Brazil last time, they're immediately at a psychological disadvantage. The same was true in 1990 against Germany, where david Platt has said that the team didn't believe they would win, but thought they could.

As for Italy, Vialli's book is revealing here. He says Italians are pessimists, who expect things to be bad, so they anticipate this and keep ahead of it. That explains why they dive - not because they are taught it, but because they don't want to be the victims themselves. There's a curious joylessness and unloveableness to Italian football in general which I also find in Argentinian, perhaps understandably given the immigrant roots of Argentina.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:27 (nineteen years ago)

i also don't think it was a penalty. he trailed his leg and was smiling smugly before he even hit the ground.

should a player's reputation be taken into account when these things happen? can fifa prosecute divers after the fact like they can (but didn't) with headbutts? did anyone ever find out what that aussie banner said exactly?

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:32 (nineteen years ago)

Whatever the merits of the penalty call, the Italian player definitely did not dive. Anyway, I can sort of understand the antipathy toward Italian football, even though I don't share it. I find it weirdly compelling.

Carlisle don't have a reputation for breathless attacking football, do they? Or maybe you're talking about Leeds. Or Newcastle. Or Dundee. Or Sheffield. Or Rotherham. Or some other United?

Haha, you "overlooked" one very obvious one. (Two, if you include West Ham.)

― David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:47 (nineteen years ago)

whinging Aussies

Don't stick us all in that basket thanks.

― Hotman Paris Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, of course. How silly of me — Oxford...

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:05 (nineteen years ago)

This thing about England belief seems odd tho considering the hype surrounding England. But if the press and fans started goign round saying England WILL win the World Cup rather than England CAN win the World Cup...well I don't want to think about it really. We see it as tempting fate whereas perhaps the Brazilians etc. see it as encouraging fate (in their favour), positive mental attitude - but blurry confidence/arrogance border as ever.

At the German History museum in Berlin there was a little exhibition called Das Spiel featuring a selection of photographs from various World Cup matches. Great stuff but the highlight was really a shrot film clip of the French dressing room at half time during the 1998 final. Jacquet and the players were quite cool and resolute, very focussed on what was happening, clearly thrilled that they were already 2 up but not getting carried away. The talk of 'it's not over yet' seemed almost like token gestures, as if obeying a script. Best bit came at the end where Jacquet ushers Zidane out with the subtitle below "Come Zizou my friend, let us go back out there" or something charming and poetic but the real translation of which was probably more like "Oi Zizou mate, get your arse in gear".

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:09 (nineteen years ago)

DC united?

― duff (duff), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:17 (nineteen years ago)

Supposing that it was a dive, Fabio Grosso still did the right thing in my mind. Taking a tumble over a defender who's chosen to throw himself at your feet, right by the goal, in the 90th minute? Of course you're going to do it. What player wouldn't?
If I was an Italy fan and I had seen Grosso leap gazelle-like over Neill's flailing body just because it was 'proper', I would be cursing his name for not taking the clear opportunity offered on a plate to win the sodding match.

If I was an Aussie I'd be pissed off, sure, but the name I'd be cursing would be Lucas Neill for being such a twat.

― David Orton (scarlet), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

Or the other 10 for not using the last 40 minutes to their advantage. Twonks.

― Hotman Paris Almanac (Autumn Almanac), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

Or rather the referee who, er, fell for such a lame "stumble"?

― tiit (tiit), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

If David A is a Chessington United supporter (and I rather suspect he is, considering how he described their football) he should know they've been renamed Mole Valley Predators.

The one unequivocal certainty about the penalty was that Lucas Neill was incredibly dumb to throw himself on the ground in front of the feet of an oncoming attacker. Had it been the other way round, I'd be blaming the Italian defender, not for a moment the Australian attacker, because EVERYONE understands that looking for penalties is how football is played these days. That's the crux of it.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

-- Hello Sunshine (fiver_the_bunn...), June 27th, 2006.

That would be the incident just after the ref apologized to Mark Schwarzer for awarding a goal instead of a free kick when two Japanese players took him out whilst the ball trickled over the line? What a coincidence. (And you mean Cahill not Kewell?)

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

I think Joe Cole dives quite a bit, PF.

My brave Swiss boys are out. Now I have to find £32 from somewhere, unless I eliminate those still in the sweepstake with my specially sharpened chopsticks.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

oh i forgot i have Ukraine in work sweeps - another reason for my supporting of them then.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:26 (nineteen years ago)

The rules have been changed this year so that yellow cards cannot be appealed, does this automatically mean that if a man is sent off after been shown two yellows, then there is no chance of appeal for this too? i.e. is this why Portugal have been told to forget it when they asked Fifa about appealing against Deco's suspension?

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

I get the impression that they were told to forget it because the grounds for appeal consisted of "he shouldn't have been booked the first time because the nasty Dutch weren't playing nice so his clattering one of them was their fault really".

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

and this is why i've been shouting "ATTACK THE DROP BALL" all tournament...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 10:10 (nineteen years ago)

EVERYONE understands that looking for penalties is how football is played these days.

no doubt you would have taken the opportunity to dive, then chewed it up and spread the resultant paste between two other opportunities to dive.

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

that joke ain't getting any newer

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:13 (nineteen years ago)

The Italian penalty:

The Aussie defender was a dick for diving in like that in the last minute of a game they'd expect to have at their mercy in extra time. The Italian saw said dickishness and left his legs in so he had to get caught (90s Premiership aficionados sometimes call this The Zola) and then made sure he went down on contact. The ref fell for it.

As an Aussie I'd be fuming. As an Italian I'd be chuffed to be through. As a neutral I'm glad I had a tenner on Italy :)

The dismissal was a poor decision too. I sent a friend a text at the time something like "officials screw Italy again!" but this time they survived. Brave decision to stick Totti on at a man short when he's been as good as a man short so far, it sent out the message that they wanted to win the match in 90 minutes.

Last night's game was piss poor. I fell asleep and missed a good chunk of it. Even the penalties were boring!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

c'mon, the penalties were hardly boring! not with so many missed

― duff (duff), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

Ronaldo Madrid switch?

suspect timing of story ahead of Saturday's match of course.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

and also: if you've been shown three yellow cards before getting sent off, and assuming your team goes through, do you get suspended the next game AND have a yellow card carrying over??

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:44 (nineteen years ago)

I just remembered something else I meant to put in my earlier post (re: Italian v Brazilian mentality etc). England are similarly joyless to watch at the moment, but you get the feeling that is down to ineptitude rather than a fundamental belief in how to play football.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

Marca is very pro Real Madrid, FWIW. According to them, everybody wants to sign for Real Madrid, and should do so immediately.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

England are similarly joyless to watch at the moment, but you get the feeling that is down to ineptitude rather than a fundamental belief in how to play football.

strange tho, again looking back to Euro 2004. wasn't the consensus that England were quite entertaining to watch in Portugal? even when the were fucking up against France and Portugal in the second halves. Rooney and Lampard on fire, Terry emerging...lots of goals. rose-tinted view perhaps but i'm hoping for more of that sparkiness on Saturday when it really matters.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 11:56 (nineteen years ago)

Definitely a penalty. Silly Lucas Neill.

Don't think this tournament has been too bad for diving (bar the DIRTY DUTCH - Van Bommel by far the worst of the lot), even Joe 'close your mouth' Cole seems to be staying on his feet.

I resent the implication that Zola is some sort of clever post-Maradona diver. He was one of the least-likely-to-dive players I've ever seen, frequently stayed on his feet when clipped if he could lay off a pass or shot, partly because he had excellent balance so rarely went down at all unless thoroughly clumped (which didn't happen much cos he was very trixy). And I saw him play 100s of times so am right.

HoBB. Def recommend the Vialli book as mentioned by Boyle upthread. it's very good on English/Italian mentality. It's also excellent on the media in the two countries.

― Pete W (peterw), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:11 (nineteen years ago)

On the subject of cards, instead of having red and yellow, couldn't they have random suggestion cards instead? Play 10 minutes in the style of Toulouse-Lautrec or something? Or something along the lines of Eno's oblique strategies? I think this would greatly enhance this noble sport.

― NickB of Hesselink (NickB), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

Much of the excitement to be had from England performances in 2004 was down to Rooney though (and Ashley Cole to be fair). Hopefully he'll be better this weekend. But yes, they were playing much better in that tournament. We really could've won that.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:16 (nineteen years ago)

At no point did I use the word dive in my post about the Italy penalty. He left his leg in and waited on the contact, the defender was stupid to dive in. Zola may well have stayed on his feet for long periods in games but he was no stranger to slipping the ball by the keeper then forgetting to lift his left leg as he ran past.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

Acieeeeeed!

Spain's coach Luis Aragonés last night refused to apologise before this evening's second-round game against France in Hanover for racially abusing Thierry Henry in 2004, insisting rather bafflingly that he has "black, Gypsy and Japanese friends, including one whose job is to determine the sex of poultry".

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Hope he's not accusing him of fowl play.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:43 (nineteen years ago)

What a thierryble joke.

― StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

all right-thinking folks just quailed at that joke

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

re the Italian penalty...the Italian could have easily avoided Neill therefore no penalty, simple really. The argument that everyone else would have dived too just doesn't cut it. Of course a video ref might've sorted it out in about ten seconds, and I just cannot understand the reluctance to introduce them.

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

it seems to me like penalising Australia for a foul they COULD'VE committed what with Neill going to ground....which is just daft and reminds me of pre-cog crimebusters in Minority Report. which means we can now blame Phillip K Dick for the WOES.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 12:55 (nineteen years ago)

PKD needs to take the blame for a whole load of shit.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

Buñuel would be definitely proud of Spain´s participation in this World Cup: things cannot get more surreal than Aragones´ exploits about his Japanese friend teaching him how to sex poultry.

― olenska (olenska), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

i cannot for the life of me see how grosso, running at momentum and having already put himself off balance cutting the ball across the tackle, is supposed to have avoided falling over neill. (neill who blatantly leans back when on the ground to obstruct him, just to reiterate what too few sensible ppl have said here)

― rtccc (mwah), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

Anyone else think that France could muddle their way through to the final?I mean the coach is obviously hatstand but they hardly ever lose matches, draw a heck of a lot yeah, but lose...not so much.As long as they are prepared for penalties they might be alright.1998 revisted with the run to the final unsullied by such things as goals from the centre forwards.Laurent Blanc! vs Paraguay, pens vs Italy, Thuram!! twice vs Croatia.Although Bartez will no doubt do something moronic to scupper the teams chances.
So far I'd say Germany has been the most consistently impressive team, which kinda boggles my mind.

― caspardam (caspardam), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

xp So you're saying it was impossible for Grosso to lift his left foot off the ground, the only option was to leave it there and fall forward? Hmmm.....

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:34 (nineteen years ago)

I think France are playing like England only worse - lots of 'experience' but little forward enthusiasm. This may work, but I predict Spain will pull it off today. Once a defensive minded team is rattled by good attacking football, it only takes one small mistake to let a goal in and if the team loses heart, they may make more mistakes.

Cela dit, Allez les bleus, n'empêche.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:37 (nineteen years ago)

i see Spain last beat France in a friendly five years ago but they have never beaten them in a tournament game before.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

France beat them in 2001 in a friendly. That was the last encounter. A couple of months before we beat them during the Euro 2000.
Spain obviously favorite tonight, but playing without much pressure might help France take more risks. On a good night, we can take them.

― Baaderonixx immer wieder (baaderonixx), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

France is not what used to be. I just talk football-wise, bien sûr

― olenska (olenska), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

If Spain do beat France (and they're definitely better than France) that will probably lift a massive burden off them and make them feel like they can be winners for once, rather than underachievers.

HoBB. Def recommend the Vialli book as mentioned by Boyle upthread. it's very good on English/Italian mentality. It's also excellent on the media in the two countries.

Cheers - I remember it being mentioned, but not on this thread.

Acieeeeeed!

8-)

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

There must be a lot of Ghanian's in Mount Pleasant, cos we've got radio 5 blasting out through the emergency tannoy, much to the disgust of some of my colleagues....

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Oh dear, they might as well turn it off now

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

Ronaldo breaks the record!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

they have as well!

― Vicky (Vicky), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

For a second I though Ronaldo's goal might have been the fabled holy grail of "in off the arse" we are looking for all tournament.

Of course hoping for the sleeping defender vs the sleepwalking attacker later.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:09 (nineteen years ago)

Ronaldo - he's no Just Fontaine, is he?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

Three yellows already. Loverly.

That fair play trophy is OURS at this rate!

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

This is gonna be a cricket score, huh?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

yellow card for adriano's dive, a place in the quarters for grosso's
shurely shome mishtake

― dr lulu (dr lulu), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:17 (nineteen years ago)

"Ghana don't understand offside" according to FiveLive.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

want Brazil to win but only so they can get beaten by Spain (prob won't happen but hey ho)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:19 (nineteen years ago)

This is gonna be a cricket score, huh?

I'm hoping for a wicket.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:26 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, it seems that Graham Taylor has been warned off against the use of the word naive, and is therefore using the much more acceptible "lack of understanding".

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:29 (nineteen years ago)

Are these teams even playing defense?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:31 (nineteen years ago)

Ghana to equalise before half time, and/or get a sending off.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

Ah well, he can get away with "lack of understanding" as no two Ghanians are teammates at club level, fact fans.

Please bring on Robinho - my only hope of Fantasy points in this match.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

From memory he said "their holding a very high line and that's risky because they don't understand off side" - which is markedly different from a "lack of understanding" between players.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:40 (nineteen years ago)

*they're

(my memory can't spell)

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Italian world cup comedy moment part #3212: Juventus captain Gianluca Pessotto in possible suicide/murder attempt:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1807110,00.html

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

No, that's not really defensible. Ghana are bossing this.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

well, they were.

― NEUBROMANCER (haitch), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

The Ghana players protesting that (illegal) second goal seem to understand offside a bit better than the linesman.

"That's Brazil...in a nutshell." Drury on fire. (If only).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Arse! How unlucky can you get (Ghana)?
2-0 what a crock.

― David Orton (scarlet), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:51 (nineteen years ago)

Hello all. Some games happened I see.

I will be catching Spain/France at a bar around here somewhere, by hook or by crook.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

americans: drink a pint every time marcello balboa says "kick the ball around" or "punish"

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 14:58 (nineteen years ago)

Just seen the Pessotto incident on News24, another dive.

― MitchellStirling (MitchellStirling), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

Mookie, I have a fullish day ahead of me and I can't be incoherent by 12:30 pm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:27 (nineteen years ago)

fortunately for you, balboa is doing the first game rather than spain/france, where we shall no doubt be soothed by the dulcet tones of j.p. dellacamera's voice

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

My local football pub had the sense the other day to play the Argentina vs. Mexico game on Univision instead of ESPN. I'd just as soon see Spain vs. France that way as well.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

so when do brazilians get their singular football names? if you have one in the minor leagues and you come up to the majors (excuse my americanized league names - i don't know what they're called) at the same time as someone with the same name what happens? are there ever two guys with the same name? i can't imagine roberto is too obscure.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:47 (nineteen years ago)

He is ZE ROBERTO though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:52 (nineteen years ago)

How many more unspectacular performances by Brazil do there need to be before Brit commentators don't start every Brazil game with "sit back and prepare yourself for some magical footballing wizardry by the masters etc etc".
Yes, they're a good team, yes they get great results but displays of gob-smacking, scintillating footy are few and far between.

3-0 though. Unlucky for Ghana, but the best of their many shots on goal were straight to the keeper. And their defence was worse than even Brazil's.

― David Orton (scarlet), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

well green and taylor on five live have been saying how cr@p they are for the last 20 mins ;)

quote of the day though:

presenter man: so what about ronaldo, graham?
graham taylor (for it is he): well i'd like to see him wider

presenter man TOTALLY misses the chance to make a fat lad joke but i lolled.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

How many more unspectacular performances by Brazil do there need to be before Brit commentators don't start every Brazil game with "sit back and prepare yourself for some magical footballing wizardry by the masters etc etc".
Yes, they're a good team, yes they get great results but displays of gob-smacking, scintillating footy are few and far between.

otm - and the selfishness. they knew they could beat ghana easy so it was every man for himself. at least twice today they had gimme goals if the easy pass was made but chose to go one on one instead. they're thinking they can just turn it on any time they want. veeeery dangerous.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

I am paradoxically impressed with how unimpressive Brazil are in demolishing teams 3-0 (and if any of them could be bothered to square the ball when through on goal it would've been 6-0)
Second goal was offside but this World Cup has pissed me off mainly because of the lack of giving forwards benefit of any doubt re offside so very tough for Ghana but no complaints from me.

― caspardam (caspardam), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

i thought Ghana played very well and also thought the game was fairly heartbreaking :(

i also thought Ghana seem addicted to fannying about inside the penalty box rather than actually trying to boot it in :(

jhoshea maybe so but what i saw were some great moves on the transition and Ghana mainly dominating everything else

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

i got mad love for ghana but yay for brazil, sorry h8ers

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

who do the haikuchildren root for?

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

fortunately for you, balboa is doing the first game rather than spain/france, where we shall no doubt be soothed by the dulcet tones of j.p. dellacamera's voice

I have to hurt you now.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:19 (nineteen years ago)

Tonight will either be a festival of football with Spain and France banging them in for the hard fought final spot in the last eight, or a cagey, nasty negative affair. It all depends on the Spanish psychology I guess.

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

What a tragically daft way for Gyan to get himself sent off.

Jim Beglin is too sensible to be an ITV pundit.

Re: England lack of belief, it struck me how quickly the pre-tournament tabloid mood of "IT'S OUR YEAR/BEST POOL OF PLAYERS EVER/WE CAN TAKE ANYONE/ENGLAND EXPECTS" rapidly gave way to "THANK FUCK WE'RE NOT PLAYING THE GERMANS".

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:24 (nineteen years ago)

M. White, re Univision vs. ESPN, is this fair? http://worldcup.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=274 Is ESPN really that bad?

― caek (caek), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:27 (nineteen years ago)

Budweiser is running ads during Brit telecasts that feature two "American" sports TV hosts who are totally ignorant of every aspect of the game; that's the joke; then you see "Budweiser" against a black background

nice two-facing you weak-piss hussies

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:30 (nineteen years ago)

who do the haikuchildren root for?

Sammy so far has wanted Saudi Arabia ("they have the coolest flag"), Japan (he proudly wears their kit), and I think Ivory Coast (best country name although he does NOT approve of the ivory trade), but his #1 favorite team is still in thanks to Totti's 99th minute penalty (1/4 Italian on his mom's side, plus he likes pasta). Emma just likes good games and good goals, she roots for whoever the underdog is, but she also kind of likes Brazil I think. Actually I don't know about her, she's almost 11, she doesn't talk to me much anymore.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:35 (nineteen years ago)

it's remarkable and disappointing that so far only one of the second round games has seen both teams score in it (Argentina-Mexico).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 16:39 (nineteen years ago)

M. White, re Univision vs. ESPN, is this fair? http://worldcup.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=274 Is ESPN really that bad?

Interesting. I DO often find it annoying and distracting. The thing they point out about sports like baseball and American football being full of lapses that the commentators often fill with meandering chats is true as is the insane interest in stats and facts. I don't mind this when it's done well for baseball, 'cause there's little sense of urgency in baseball for long stretches. I don't mind when the commentators point out a few cogent facts but sometimes you should let the director's visual coverage (and consequently the game) speak for itself. The game isn't exciting because the announcers are clever, it's exciting because the stakes are high, the fans are passionate, and the teams are doing their utmost.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:12 (nineteen years ago)

The best commentators are found in pubs if my experience today at the Dogstar is representative.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:17 (nineteen years ago)

"the crisis in American sportscasting" is laying it on a little thick; sounds like the kind of overstatement for dramatic effect that the announcers are being criticized for

one thing I've learned on ILE's World Cup threads is that comedy announcing is very much a part of watching and enjoying any game

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:18 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, that ESPN analysis is actually perfectly fair until it gets to the part about the "crisis of American broadcasting" and trying to extrapolate it to all sports (as said previously, the reason why those bits exist in baseball and american football is because there are lags in the "action" and many pauses; rarely have I seen a network show human interest features or lame stats games over actual play--and blasting Madden of all commentators for doing this is actually absurd). But yeah, we've been utilizing Univision when we're not watching play in bars on weekends. The ESPN guys are really annoying because they're basically approaching this at some kind of soccer tutorial angle, despite what they claim in the Times article. And they do seem to be just plainly not watching the games. I was ready to ask the bartender to mute the tv and let me turn on the jukebox during the Mexico-Argentina match if I heard one more time about the "controversy" in Mexico about using naturalized players. They must've explained that a good 57 times.

― Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:29 (nineteen years ago)

Haikunym, I think the other thing is that American fans of foreign soccer listen to the FSC guys, who are competent, and the British Sky commentators, so we have certain expectations about what a game is 'supposed' to sound like that aren't being met by the ESPN or ABC guys. The one thing I really want to hear is the crowd, which is why I can happily watch Univision even though I understand only about a third of what I pay attention to.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:31 (nineteen years ago)

I agree with you both, but I still watch the games on ABC / ESPN so I can have the fun of laughing at the dumbass things being said by Marcelo Balboa. O'Brien's actually not so bad compared to MB, who must be the least knowledgeable former player in history. I also like how Michael Davies, in his entertaining ESPN blog, heaps praises on Eric Wynalda just for being contrarian and kind of pissy -- I haven't heard anything really smart from him yet, but I love how he HATES Alexi Lalas, and with great reason.

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

...if I heard one more time about the "controversy" in Mexico about using naturalized players.

It's like they're over-compensating for something with clever background info and good homework. Once is enough, maybe twice, but talk about the game, not the backstory.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:40 (nineteen years ago)

I've disliked Lalas for so long that now that he's shaved and cut his hair, I can almost tolerate him. He was almost funny on the Colbert Report the other night.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:41 (nineteen years ago)

The way the Univision guy was rolling his "R"s in yesterday's Ukraine match was definitely a highlight in World Cup broadcasting.

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:44 (nineteen years ago)

lalas is the isiah thomas of mls!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:45 (nineteen years ago)

It's funny 'cause I know a Spanish girl who's been watching games at the same bar I do and she likes the American coverage 'cause her English isn't great and she loaths one of the Univision commentators.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:46 (nineteen years ago)

(xposts) "Oh hey Brazil, where are your good players? Oh, right, they were EATEN by RONALDO!"

The over-compensation for...whatever can be extremely irritating. I don't need to know about every player on the field's mother, or something similar. Univision is terrific, especially the pregame show, because even when I do understand what they are saying, I have no idea what the hell is going on. And I sort of love how excited they get when anyone gets anywhere near the goal, getting all prepped to scream "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!" but being forced to say "GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooohhhhh..." instead, though I will admit that by the 45th minute I'm getting a little tired of it. Everyone here OTM about how it conveys excitement and tension far better than ESPN/ABC, even if you don't understand a lick of Spanish. The ESPN guys just tend to ignore everything going on, they never seem very excited at all for the play.

― Allyzay will never stop making pancakes (allyzay), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:48 (nineteen years ago)

re: lalas - it's funny how he's kept his hair a little messy - i'm still bad maaaan. not even this suit can hold me back.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

I don't understand any Spanish but at least I get a sense of urgency in the Univision broadcast. Also, once I knew the rules play-by-play isn't as important for me in soccer. I could just deal with crowd sounds and some dude shouting "Goal!!1!1" every once in a while.

xpost

― laurence kansas (lawrence kansas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:51 (nineteen years ago)

Allez les vieux!

― StanM (StanM), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

I like that Ronaldo has just broken the all-time WC scoring record but he's still fat and shiftless for the purposes of humor.

Stan, that just made me laugh.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

well he is hugely fat.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:04 (nineteen years ago)

lol france misses one great chance, twice!

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:24 (nineteen years ago)

PENALTY

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

wbhat a great kick

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:28 (nineteen years ago)

Haha, Tyldsley worked himself up into a state of agitation over how scandalous the penalty decision was then said "yeah, caught his standing foot, good decision" in the same breath without changing tone at all.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

Then said "soft penalty" immediately after it was scored.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

GAME ON

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

great goal from france

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

Spain are really pushing it with this offside trap.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:42 (nineteen years ago)

Ribery is wanted by Lyon and Man Utd - now you know why

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

Frankenstein!

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:43 (nineteen years ago)

i thought Ribery was shit against Korea so good to see him justifying the hype more now i guess.

otoh COME ON SPAIN

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:44 (nineteen years ago)

big half!

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:45 (nineteen years ago)

Clive Tyldesley right about one thing anyway – I didn't want to see that half end.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:46 (nineteen years ago)

I thought I'd be supporting Spain tonight, but as soon as I heard the French national anthem I changed my mind. This game's a lot closer than I thought it would be.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:47 (nineteen years ago)

fantastic last few minutes in that half.

viva espana

― gbx (skowly), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:47 (nineteen years ago)

I am hugely pro-France in this game, I've found.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

Clive Tyldesley is a massive twat isn't he? He managed to call the game a classic after 20 seconds of play.

God I love Spain so much. They've become my second team over the course of the tournament. Gutted when Ribery scored.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:48 (nineteen years ago)

both spain and france are two of my three fave teams in the tourney (portugal being the other) and all i can root for is another 45 (plus 30, pls) like the last. wonderful game so far.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:51 (nineteen years ago)

It's La Marseillaise that does it for me. Best national anthem evah. According to the internet:

Let's go children of the fatherland,
The day of glory has arrived!
Against us tyranny's
Bloody flag is raised! (repeat)
In the countryside, do you hear
The roaring of these fierce soldiers?
They come right to our arms
To slit the throats of our sons, our friends!

Grab your weapons, citizens!
Form your batallions!
Let us march! Let us march!
May impure blood
Water our fields!

Beats our "God save our gracious queen...." miserable grey dirge any day.

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:55 (nineteen years ago)

(I mean the tune, especially the 'oo-ah Cantona' bit at the end, I had no idea what the words were until 5 mins ago)

― Teh HoBBercraft (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:56 (nineteen years ago)

i don't understand, but i'm finding myself rooting for france. maybe this is the result of jpd mentioning 500 times how this could be zidane's last match.

i actually don't mind the yank broadcasters so much; what pisses me off more is how they cut away from the game to show crowds in la/columbus/times square watching the game. who the fuck cares? also, they should be showing all the goals at halftime/postgame, and they don't.

eric wynalda is a fussy bitch. he and chiniglia (sp?) are like XAVIER/MAGNETO.

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:57 (nineteen years ago)

grab your guillotines citizens!

that shit is pretty dire.

the angle ribery chose was dicey - had the whole side of the net wide open and his shot nearly got nicked by the sliding spanish defender. looked like if he had slid a moment earlier he could've gotten a piece of it.

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

viera woah oh oh oh

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:40 (nineteen years ago)

ffs Spain why u break heart every time??

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:41 (nineteen years ago)

Henry should be congratulated again for his vocal opposition to people what Dive Like A Woman.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:46 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, Spain....

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:48 (nineteen years ago)

zinedine

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

zidane

― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks to Los Yanquis for your thoughts on the commentary. I might be over for the final, so I'm curious to know what to expect. I was in San Francisco for the group stages of Euro 2004, but it was my first day on another continent, and I was massively drunk, so I can't really remember the commentary.

Re: UK commentary, the funniest with-them-not-at-them moment for me so far was Gary Lineker's introduction to the Ecuador game. He said "Ecuador have come to win, not to take photographs... which must be doubly upsetting for David Beckham".

― caek (caek), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:49 (nineteen years ago)

Well that's my favourite goal so far.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

absolutely gutted, and yes, fuck you Terry Henry, you big fucking woman.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

It's all over the Spaniards

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

that was masterful execution by Zidane

can't believe Spain blow it yet again. very interesting that France manage to turn it on when it mattered. they played the best they have in a very long time from what i can tell.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

That was really exciting right up to the end - I wanted Spain to win but can't argue with the beautiful way Zidane went round Puyol and carved out that goal. I'm glad we'll get to see more of him.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:52 (nineteen years ago)

Wooo! I am surprised how much I wanted France to win too! I do like Spain though, and was quite torn for a time, and certainly my fantasy football team would reflect the Spain love (and I was just starting to be NOT shit...)

But woo! I like Terry Henry and his quizzical looks, and also that it sounded like he made Clive Tyldesley cry inside.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

France looked excellent. They should def. give Brazil a serious challenge. All six possible former World Cup winners in the quarters again (poor Uruguay at home crying.) It's nothing if not consistent is it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

Oo-la-la! Apres le deluge, l'etat c'est moi!

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:54 (nineteen years ago)

ZIZU! hell yes.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:56 (nineteen years ago)

welj, in retrospect, that was totally bloody obvious wasn't it? still, fairytale stuff. let's hope they snot brazil now.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:57 (nineteen years ago)

haha, terry venables on henry:

"he's a very fair minded player and i think he will suffer himself, seeing that afterwards"

― rtccc (mwah), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

Who remember's Henry's outrage when Spurs "cheated" to score the opening goal against the Gooners at Highbury a couple of months back?

Tonight's performance from him was the worst dive I've seen so far this tournament, Jurgen himself would be proud.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 19:59 (nineteen years ago)

spain yo0u broek my hreart

that dive was disgraceful.

but, truth be told, france seemed to be outplaying spain for most of the game.

― gbx (skowly), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

Gyan's was possibly the worst in the sense that he did it about three feet away from a player that wasn't trying to touch him and got sent off as a result, but Terreh's gets extra points for hypocrisy.

― Fraggle O Rly (Ferg), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

maybe Puyol's hair was giving off electric shocks. or a fly leapt out of it into Henry's eye. he'll never tell.

England-France semi would be so sweet now.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.goalhanger.com/products/detail/?id=908

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:03 (nineteen years ago)

Dude, he was getting back Aragones because he's a massive racist! Obvs.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

Henry's contribution:
- badly timed run enabling someone else to spring the offside by accident to score the equaliser.
- running into Puyol and falling down "like a woman" to get free kick for second goal.
- Gallic shrugs

Zidane need not retire on that form, and Vieira doesn't look 46 any more.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:04 (nineteen years ago)

Who was the woman in the spangly jacket on the Spanish bench?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

She was there to show Henry how to fall down.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

real answer: 5th official, I think.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

Henry's contribution:

I also liked the amusing look he gave Puyol for falling over, after he ran in to him. "What are you falling over for?"

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:09 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, that was good.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

I was wondering about Ms. Spangles myself. Great match at its best, not a classic but even so. Good to finally see one after being in transit the last two days.

So now what do we do until Friday?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Beats our "God save our gracious queen...." miserable grey dirge any day.

The final verse of GOd Save The Queen, which would doubtlessly even rouse Gary Neville into voice:

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

― matthew james (matthew james), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

oops

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:20 (nineteen years ago)

Yup, Gary Neville is a big Marshal Wade enthusiast. I was just thinking - I don't think I've ever sung the national anthem. Not just because I hate it, so I would probably do a Neville, but I can't remember ever being in a situation where the national anthem was sung. Apart from England matches and the FA Cup final (neither of which I've been to) when is it sung?

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

You'd think the England fans would revive that verse after all the mindless thug anti English disgraceful etc RACIST VIOLENCE that's been exacted by the Scots in recent weeks.
Today I took a chocolate hobnob off a passing Englishman.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:23 (nineteen years ago)

lol @ Tyldesley T-shirt

i like this one too

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

also liked the wry smile that the france physio gave the fourth official when gallas got hit in the bollocks.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:33 (nineteen years ago)

Allez les vieux, indeed! France's geriatric strikeforce were good and showed that sometimes a little cran is worth no end of fresh legs.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

I managed to twat up finding the command center for Team Hopkin Stim and watched the last thirty or so minutes in a Peckham watering hole, where the bartender, French, noticed the lovely Emma B's accent and said, in English, "we will win!" before setting down her glass of house red. Nostradamus!

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:39 (nineteen years ago)

OMG PLAYERS DIVE!!

"It's La Marseillaise that does it for me. Best national anthem evah"

So true. It makes me want to be French. I love the German national anthem too.

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 20:42 (nineteen years ago)

Ahhh Zidane.I love the way he plays football.
Thought Viera was going to square up to Arogones at one point.

― caspardam (caspardam), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

Even in Berlin, I could here the sound of people ripping up betting slips with Spain on it, saying 'bollocks. I thought it really would be them this time...'

The Brazil cock-sucking has been irritating as hell since 1998, when the Ronnie and Nike combo branded them into another level. A pox on their corporate whore house. Allez les Bleus and all that. It's one of the reasons why most teams struggle against them (aside from being bobbins) in that they've had players who heard all their lives about how supernaturally brilliant they all are. Whenever people give them a game, they struggle (Belgium, Turkey and Costa Rica from the last world cup, for example).

I am delighted to see how well Germany are doing. Whenever I have gone on about how bloody fantastic german football is, the only riposte I get is 'well, ha, germany have got a shit team, so not all that good eh'. Ho, and indeed, ho. Berlin, Berlin, wir fahren nach Berlin!

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:18 (nineteen years ago)

Gary Neville is not alone in not singing. Other non Queen-savers are Jamie Carragher and Wayne Rooney. Two Liverpudlians with surnames of Irish extraction. I draw no inference at all, really.

Dave, the ITV commentator described Spain as being the kings of the ripped-up betting slips. Did someone say that on this thread already? (also the national anthem thing, someone might have mentioned that too, I am teh pissed)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:30 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, Spain.

One more chance at least to watch Zidane, though.

― Ally C (Ally C), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:34 (nineteen years ago)

That was a good game game from France, about time :). The people in Paris just went crazy, it's been a while since we'd seen this. When Zidane scored, all the people in the apartments next to the one I was in just went to their balconies and shouted like hell. Two minutes after the end of the game, you could hear cars honking and people shouting in the streets. That is a rather big change from previous games, it's almost like we cannot be bothered about celebration until the QF.

― Jibé (Jibé), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:38 (nineteen years ago)

If you overlook the absence of Holland, that last eight is OLD WORLD ORDER all over again. It's like Japan and Korea 02 never happened.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

This 'fairytale' will end with Ronaldo scoring a hattrick against France.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:40 (nineteen years ago)

As for Germany - weird how minor a role Ballack's played up to now. I'm not saying he hasn't been influential, but it's Schweinsteiger, Klose, Lahm and Podolski that have caught the eye.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:42 (nineteen years ago)

the only riposte I get is 'well, ha, germany have got a shit team, so not all that good eh'.

well you can only go by their results and performances and prior to the World Cup these seemed quite poor against decent opposition. i've been surprised by their rising to the occasion despite the massive home advantage. i like them a bit more now tho after enjoying the match against Sweden in a packed bar on Unter Den Linden, and witnessing the euphoria around Potsdamer Platz afterwards. again i was a bit surprised by the scale of the euphoria considering Germany ALWAYS progress to this stage in World Cups.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:43 (nineteen years ago)

i am watching alan ball now, on motd, in general disbelief. have we discussed him at all yet?

― rtccc (mwah), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

weird how minor a role Ballack's played up to now.

ditto Ronaldinho

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:44 (nineteen years ago)

If England can throw off the 'Scolari curse' and France manage to get by Brazil, I'm going to have a rough Independence Day.

Yeah, stevem, what happened to him this tournament?

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:45 (nineteen years ago)

I said that in the pub earlier, about Ronaldhino.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:48 (nineteen years ago)

(is there some kind of award for most superfluous and pointless post ever, because I think I just won it?)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:52 (nineteen years ago)

For whatever little it's worth, I just beat Brazil 3-2 in the final here with the French team.

I'm giving you a run for the money, ailsa.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:55 (nineteen years ago)

Ronaldinho didn't exactly set the Champions League final alight either, remember? Weird to think that Brazil could actually win the World Cup without any major moments from him.

Despite him having the game from hell today, I realised that Carlos Puyol is possibly my favourite player in the world right now. The way he throws himself into everything!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:57 (nineteen years ago)

"weird how minor a role Ballack's played up to now."

Um the guy has been coming back from an injury.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

No-one set the Champions League final alight until Henrik Larsson appeared. That was one game though, there have been several chances in this tournament for Ronaldhino to show his class, but he hasn't.

Has there even been an outstanding candidate for a "best player of the World Cup" so far? I can't think of one.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:04 (nineteen years ago)

because, you know, Ronaldo beating Gerd Muller's record doesn't count because he's fat and Brazil aren't that good and... *runs off to get a job for ITV*

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:07 (nineteen years ago)

The way he throws himself into everything!

i like him too but he kinda fucked things up by throwing himself into Henry when he had a strong chance of beating him to the ball anyway seeing as Henry was attempting to run around the left side of him with the ball on the right. i think this is 'worse' than what Neill did against Grosso yesterday and possibly even vindicates Henry's face-holding under the circumstances.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

xpost - the best player so far has probably been rafael marquez.

― michael wells (michael w.), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

I liked the Ecaudor national anthem - it was surprisingly dainty and jaunty; something you would prrrrance about to like a powdered, frisky fop.

Mind-blowing fact ahoy: there's a nice synchronicity in how the teams have been paired in the quarter finals, because, results fans, Brazil play France - both scored three times in their second round games; Germany play Argentina and both scored twice; and England and Portugal scored once each. It doesn't work for Italy v Ukraine cos though Italy scord one, the Ukraine players couldn't score if they walked around Kiev's red-light district with a 100 Hryven banknote tied round each of their cocks.
Otherwise it's brilliant.

I've had a bit to drink but I don't think it's had much of an effect on this post.

― David Orton (scarlet), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

Tonight rekindled my love for Les Bleus (whoever he is); well, OK, I was screaming for Espana to get it to the big lad in the box (whoever he is) in injury time so we could have an extra half-hour but ZZ's mazzy majesty was even better.

Didn't see Alan Ball on MOTD tonight but last night he was recalling the time he met Johann Cruyff on holiday and JC basically gave him a spare Barcelona player to take back with him for Southampton.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:25 (nineteen years ago)

"Has there even been an outstanding candidate for a "best player of the World Cup" so far? I can't think of one."

Klose's been pretty impressive.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:42 (nineteen years ago)

If you overlook the absence of Holland, that last eight is OLD WORLD ORDER all over again. It's like Japan and Korea 02 never happened.

It's like someone made sure it never happened.

Look at the round 3 games and see how many OLD WORLD ORDER teams should, in theory, have been playing out draws with each other or the other "big" team in their group. It said in one of the papers yesterday that only two groups didn't have top ranked teams playing each other in round 3. Ghana and Ecuador fucked things up a little by having the audacity to win games but mostly it's been replica tops & tv rights 'r' us since then.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:43 (nineteen years ago)

"because, you know, Ronaldo beating Gerd Muller's record doesn't count because he's fat and Brazil aren't that good and..."

Not saying it doesn't count, but didn't Muller set that record in two World Cup appearences vs. Ronaldo's four?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:44 (nineteen years ago)

Three really, cos he didn't play in 94.

― Cracks (Crackity), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

100 Hryven is only about £10. I don't know the going rate for a lady of the night in Kiev, but this could explain their difficulty scoring.

Just realised it's 2am. Off to bed now.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 00:07 (nineteen years ago)

Does anyone over in the UK know these commentators we're getting for our Canadian (Sportsnet and TSN) broadcasts? Gary Bloom, I think, and someone else, I forget (help me out here, Canadians!) Anyway, they're never paired up with a "colour" commentator, they're always alone and isolated in what I can't help imagining (for reasons that will come clear) as some kind of dingy partially rotted shed tacked onto an unfashionable part of the stadium with binder twine and a few strategic rusty nails, and anyway the one who presented the England-Ecuador game kept alluding in tones of barely restrained horror to the creepy-crawlies and large winged things that were filling the commentary booth, apparently attracted by the mad heat (or, alternately, by the sound of an English voice a hair's-breadth away from panic). I'm pretty sure the same dude did today's Spain-France affair, and kept alluding to the insane Spaniard next to him (who we could also just hear for ourselves) and how he, the Spanish announcer, was going to completely lose it if Spain scored as he'd "already gone mental when Spain merely won a throw-in". Ha, I laughed. These aren't BBC or ITV people, though. Anyone?

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 04:53 (nineteen years ago)

"alluding" being my current favourite word, obv.

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

100 Hryven is only about £10.

OK, but it's "a 100 Hryven banknote tied round each of their cocks" - you seem to be thinking they only have one each, but Chernobyl was in Ukraine...

http://www.dei.unipd.it/~bianco1/img/blinky.jpg

― StanM (StanM), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 05:05 (nineteen years ago)

Gary Bloom used to do commentating for Italian football when it was shown on Channel 4. I think he might be one of the guys doing UKTV G2 coverage as well.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 05:16 (nineteen years ago)

Thanks, ailsa, so he's a "real" commentator then (by that, I think I mean I half suspected the Canadian networks of faking British sports announcers in order to give their coverage some sort of legitimacy, which admittedly is very convoluted thinking). Whatever UKTV G2 is, my guess is the one whose name I forgot also belongs there. I wonder why we don't get the Motsons, Tyldesleys and Andy Grays, though.

― David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 05:39 (nineteen years ago)

Gary Bloom was a one-time colleague of Tyldesley's at Radio City in Liverpool - I have fond memories of him screaming himself hoarse as Derek Mountfield put Everton into the '85 Cup final.

While on Football Italia (or whatever it was called) Bloom was responsible for the Partridgean gem, "Oh, you'd have bet your last Italian ice-cream on him scoring from there...but you'd be left holding an empty cone." I mentioned this once before on ILX and the man himself emailed me to verify the quote!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 06:11 (nineteen years ago)

The only comfort I get from this is that Aragones's possibly racist comments have come back to whack him in the goolies.

Highlight - the thought of Cruyff and Ball bumping into each other, in their trunks, by the pool, long shot, 70mm, the sound of laughter and plongeures obscuring their conversation.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 06:23 (nineteen years ago)

Early start, Michael?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 06:23 (nineteen years ago)

"because, you know, Ronaldo beating Gerd Muller's record doesn't count because he's fat and Brazil aren't that good and..."

Gerd Muller was hardly sylph-ilke. I hate Brazil but I love Ronaldo, give me a fat Ronaldo over a thin Ronaldinho any day of the week.

I think (and hope) Germany will be beat Argentina and France will beat Brazil, thus ridding the competition of extraneous South Americans. England and Italy will win the other quarter finals.

― TS: Alan Stivell - A l'Olympia vs. Magma - Live/Hhaï (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 08:36 (nineteen years ago)

I have started to like Ronaldo again. Clutching at straws, I suppose.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 08:41 (nineteen years ago)

My abiding memory of Gary Bloom is that he used to be the man who knew too much - it was fairly clear he used to do the commentary after the matches had taken place. There'd be a corner and a crowded penalty area. the corner would come over, and he'd say, for example, Zambrotta is there in the area ... and Zambrotta scores!

― Daniel Giraffe (Daniel Giraffe), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

I'm hating how Tyldesley, 9 times out of 10, insists on saying a player's entire name (Fronnnnk Ribery) during commentary. Such a Barry Davies-like thing to do.

― TS: Alan Stivell - A l'Olympia vs. Magma - Live/Hhaï (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

I think Ballack has been pulling all the strings for Germany. Like Riquelme, but more direct. Ronaldinho ain't in the Maradona/Pele/Zidane class, that's for sure, though surprised how deep he's playing. Kaka seems to be their main man. Also, Vieira's getting better and better.

Was chuffed to see France through, for ZZ plus national anthem reasons which stirs my soul in a way that music should but national anthems rarely do.

Great quarter-finals now - three too close to call and one with potential for a shock.

Loving everything about this WC except the commentators, who have irritated me more than I thought possible. Like bloody kerbcrawler Pleat going on about how Spain are in complete control at the EXACT moment Ribery waltzed through their static defence to score. And then he blathered on for the next 20 minutes like it hadn't even happened, completely ignoring the fact that France were the better team from kick off. It's like they've decided what will happen at the start and then stick with it no matter what - prime example Italy-Ghana, going on about how negative Italy are even as they rip the Ghanaians to shreds. GAH.

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 09:01 (nineteen years ago)

Vieira and Zidane telling Aragones to sit down and shut the fuck up was the best moment of the tournament.

― Venga (Venga), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 09:10 (nineteen years ago)

"The only comfort I get from this is that Aragones's possibly racist comments have come back to whack him in the goolies."

Now he just thinks he's a plain old shit.

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 09:18 (nineteen years ago)

Haha.

I have suspected all along that England, like France, will only start to play when they come up against a good team. I suppose, we will see.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 09:59 (nineteen years ago)

hopefully they will come up against each other.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:00 (nineteen years ago)

That would be acceptable.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

An England v. Germany final would be a laugh but a France v. Germany final would be best I think

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

i want a Spain v Holland final one day

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:04 (nineteen years ago)

they never seem to play each other

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

When the stoppable force hits the movable object...

― Alba (Alba), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:14 (nineteen years ago)

Spain never play Brazil either, which is why I wanted them to win last night. But oh well.

― Ally C (Ally C), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:28 (nineteen years ago)

i want a Spain v Holland final one day

I incline more towards a Scotland v England final one day

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:30 (nineteen years ago)

All of the "big" teams in this World Cup are merely shadows of their former selves. So I now want Ukraine to win. That's impossible, isn't it?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:31 (nineteen years ago)

Argentina don't seem that shadowy.

They'll have to bring back the Home Nations tournament for that. (xpost)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

x-post It's surely possible with the balls of steel of that young bloke who dinked the penalty in after watching two misses.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:32 (nineteen years ago)

I don't agree, I think all of the big teams have played well at least once, except England (xxpost)

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

Most entertaining thing done by an Englishman (Joe Cole's goal aside):

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2006/06/25/Beckham-sick-Daniel-Maurer-.jpg

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 10:38 (nineteen years ago)

NSFW (at lunchtime)!

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

Last night was magnifique. I am surprised at the level of ... Hispaniophilia around here.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

I have just realized that Steady Mike should now expect an e-mail from Gary Bloom confirming that he did indeed e-mail him to confirm the veracity of the icea-cream-cone legend.

It's a tale to justify the internet.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

Conversely I am surprised by the extent of the France love.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

Early start, Michael?

Yes and no. Awake at 5am but didn't leave the house until 8:15 - message above was from the laptop.

Pinefox: if you owned a field telephone I could've sent you a text message after ZZ's goal. Now, think on.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

I'm sure that's true - though, could I have read it?

Another possibility is that you could have sent me a post card. Indeed, I would have liked to send you one.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

I am not sure you have fully taken the Stadiobot's advice on board, The Pinefox. Have you truly Thought On?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

I like the postcard idea. What would be the picture on the picture postcard? Gary Bloom?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 12:14 (nineteen years ago)

with an ice cream, natch.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 12:15 (nineteen years ago)

Surely with no ice cream, just an empty cone?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

I hope Gary, if he's reading this (and what else is there to do in the insect-infested portakabin he's been shoved in for UKTV?), doesn't think we're taking the piss. Keep it conical, Dr Bloom.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

cone but not forgotten, like cone-an the barbarian...

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 12:59 (nineteen years ago)

What links Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark, Ecuador and Spain?

They're the only countries England have beaten in knockout football in the last 40 years.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

and thoroughly deserved victories some of them were too.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

Errrrrrrrrr, no, apart from Denmark

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:05 (nineteen years ago)

Two were on penalties too!

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:07 (nineteen years ago)

Spain's knockout victory record in last 40 years:

Rep Of Ireland, Switzerland, Denmark

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

In the meantime -
CarsmileSteve on the tantalising possibilities of the Fair Play Trophy...

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

Well Spain and England are football's "perennial underachievers"

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

did England not deserve to win against Ecuador and Belgium? i can't remember Belgium but Ecuador were hardly robbed.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:12 (nineteen years ago)

The 1966 knockout stages were in the last 40 years. So ner.

How may teams have (West) Germany beaten in knockout football in that time, just out of interest?

I reckon if a European* side had won every knockout trophy in the last 40 years they'd probably not have had to beat more than about 30 teams.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

The 1966 knockout stages were in the last 40 years. So ner.

How may teams have (West) Germany beaten in knockout football in that time, just out of interest?

I reckon if a European* side had won every knockout trophy in the last 40 years they'd probably not have had to beat more than about 30 teams.

*I only say European because I don't know how other continents' equvalents of the Euro trophy are structured

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

also wouldn't last 40 years include Argentina and Portugal from '66? moot perhaps but still.

(xpost)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

Thoroughly deserved. And yes, Belgium were robbed, tho not as blatantly as Spain and Cameroon.

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

They also beat the USSR, in 68, for third place.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:20 (nineteen years ago)

That's not knockout tho is it?

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:21 (nineteen years ago)

Germany have knocked out the following countries in major tournaments:

Sweden
South Korea
U.S.A.
Paraguay
Mexico
Croatia
England
Czech Republic
Belgium
Netherlands
Argentina
Morocco
France
Uruguay
USSR
Yugoslavia

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:22 (nineteen years ago)

is thoroughly deserved an oxymoron? do you either deserve something or not? hmm.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

And they're about to knock out Argentina again! Hooray!

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:24 (nineteen years ago)

We played well against paraguay. Against Belgium, we were both shite until Gazza fell over and David platt did well.

Germany have beaten:

Czechoslovakia, Holland, Paraguay, Italy, Morocco, England (4 times), Holland, South Korea, USA, Mexico (2 times), France (2 times), Sweden, Belgium (3 times), USSR, Spain, Yugoslavia, Croatia.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:26 (nineteen years ago)

Ha ha, it's true. We're so lame!

― Pete W (peterw), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Hahahah.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

but not as lame as Spain (whew)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

Our German friends and cousins beat us in 1970, 1990 and 1996, I recall, but I can't recall the fourth time. Which episode of this painful litany am I forgetting?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

European Championships, 1972... perhaps?

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:42 (nineteen years ago)

In fact wasn't it the night Bobby Moore was transformed before our very eyes from "the greatest central defender in the world" to a fat, one-paced hasbeen?

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

thinking about the psychological effect in the '96 semi-final more...it's getting harder and harder to feel optimistic about Saturday. whole revenge motivation thing seems to have no real standing and if anything makes things worse.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

who is your favourite English player ever, out of interest, Dadaismus?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

*puts a tenner on Chris Sutton*

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

Ha ha. I was going to say Peter Latchford. Bobby Charlton probably, he's about the best isn't he?

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

It seems you're right, that would explain my not remembering it then.

xpost: I wouldn't know about the decline of the Bobby, in my head he was the 1966 / 1970 ace until he pops up in my actual* memory, playing not-especially-well for Fulham. Although he gets namechecked very positively in "Y Viva El Fulham", I noticed the other day.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

If it hadn't been for this accursed thread, I never would have found out that Bobby Moore's middle name was Chelsea. Well, one of his middle names. Who knew? (OK, probably everyone, but I didn't.)

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

I wasn't just having a pop at Moore for the sake of it, that 3-1 defeat at Wembley - which I think was only the second time England had ever been beaten at Wembley (outwith the UK teams) - is (in)famous because of Moore's performance. It was pretty much the end of his international career.

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

He was on the wane in 1972, when our German brothers beat us. He was bobbins against Poland in 1974, when his fuck up caused us to lose the away match in the group, which if memory serves was his last, or second last match.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

... I think he played a few more internationals after that but he had problems getting his boots on because his feet had turned to clay

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

Dave, do I get the impression that you are going to surpass yourself and make the ultimate in support switches?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

I nearly bought a 1972 German away replica strip yesterday, if that's what you mean. But I said on the pre-tournament thread I wanted them to win if we couldn't. It was, however, somewhat worrying to get all misty-eyed listening to Herbert Zimmermann's commentary of the 1954 final (Tor, Tor, Tor fur Deutschland!).

In my defence, I've been getting misty at several things in Germany.

Anyway, it wouldn't be the ultimate in sports switches. We're the narrowly separated neighbour, not the diametric opposite. Germany is our bigger and more talented younger brother, who's gone on an surpassed us.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

It was, however, somewhat worrying to get all misty-eyed listening to Herbert Zimmermann's commentary of the 1954 final (Tor, Tor, Tor fur Deutschland!).

As featured all the way through the closing 10 minutes or so of Rainer Werner Fassbinder's "The Marriage of Maria Braun"!

― ¡Vamos a matar, Dadaismus! (Dada), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:36 (nineteen years ago)

like Spurs to Arsenal if you ask me! (xpost)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Crosspost: So you've thought it through then?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Though what?

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

thought what, even...

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

I mean, you've thought through the implications of Germany becoming your favoured national team? Or does that remain unthinkable?

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:44 (nineteen years ago)

Yep, back when the European Championships had home/away qf and then sf/f in one host nation:

[Apr 29, London]
England 1-3 West Germany
[Lee 77; U.Hoeneß 26, Netzer 85pen, G.Müller 89]
(just look at his face!)

[May 13, Berlin]
West Germany 0-0 England

It was, however, somewhat worrying to get all misty-eyed listening to Herbert Zimmermann's commentary of the 1954 final (Tor, Tor, Tor fur Deutschland!).

It had the same effect on me! And I've be brought up to regard that as one of the greatest injustices in football by my Magyar-lovin' Dad. (With my brother, it was the '74 Dutch team and with me it was France '82/'86).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

kudos on the ß

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

Piece of piß.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

wait, when did Germany knock Spain out of a tournament?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

It's being phased out though :-(

In case anyone wonders what the hell we're on about, it's here, about 5m32s in.

Did you hear it at Das Spiel, Steve? And when did you leave Berlin?

xpost - Germany beat Spain in the 1/4s of the 1976 European Championship

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

wait, when did Germany knock Spain out of a tournament?

They've met at the (first) group stage in the '66 WC, '88 EC, '94 WC and at the second group stage at '82 WC. I guess WGer's 2-1 victory in that last match is the closest they've come to knocking Spain out of a tournament.

(xpost! That '76 3-1 agg win isn't mentioned in the FIFA head-to-head!)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, this explains it:

FIFA World Cup match data is available from 1930 and 'A' match data is available from 1985

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:17 (nineteen years ago)

i did hear it i think Dave, altho i didn't give it much attention regrettably. left Berlin on Monday morning.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

You (people) have lost me now.

I suppose this is the lull between the 2nd round and the QFs.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:24 (nineteen years ago)

Bah. Was there Sunday - should have arranged to watch the game together :-(

Where did you watch it? I watched it in the 11Freunde cinema in Kreuzberg, which was pretty cool. What

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:25 (nineteen years ago)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20060624/capt.sge.kcx54.240606170156.photo02.photo.default-457x512.jpg

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

Dave I watched it in the same bar on Unter Der Linden that I watched the Germany game in the day before, only this time it was dead. My rejoicing of Beckham's goal was pretty muted regardless. It would've been great to meet up :(

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

(many, many, many xposts): Dadaismus - England have beaten Paraguay twice since 66 in the knockouts, we thrashed them 3-0 in 86, so their name must be added to the lengthy list of those who thoroughly merited their status as losers.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 16:11 (nineteen years ago)

The same at the Lido - busy as hell for Czech Rep - Ghana and France - Spain, but dead for us. Funny that.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 28 June 2006 16:16 (nineteen years ago)

Beckham's a big Titchmarsh fan

Reminds me of Kelly Hoppen's revelations about her nights in with Sol watching The Weather Channel.

I love footballers.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 June 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

Victoria putting Becks right in it, again.

― David Orton (scarlet), Thursday, 29 June 2006 08:38 (nineteen years ago)

It is old news, but it hasn't been noted yet so ... back page of Monday's Metro: "Heats, shoots and heaves"

― Mädchen (Madchen), Thursday, 29 June 2006 08:39 (nineteen years ago)

This thread went through a definite purple patch, around about the time post cards started getting mentioned.

I think, deep down inside, we are all Germans.

I want Brazil to win now, based purely on the people left in the office sweepstake.

I want Germnany to hammer Argentina, and then get pulverised in the semi-final.

Is anyone watching Sven's Boys or indeed the Boys Form Brazil vs Les Bleurghs in a London venue of choice on Saturday? I will be at Heathrow Air Port (where I shall buy a post card) until I don't know what time, but then I could come in and try to raise everyone's spirits with some splendid japes.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

I want Brazil to win now, based purely on the people left in the office sweepstake.

In the words of Ian McCulloch (on the phone to Will Sergeant), "Like oo?"

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:04 (nineteen years ago)

What a shame those kerazy Spanish fans with their monkey chants will no longer be a part of the World Cup.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

(x-post)

Ger - Steve S
Arg- the increasingly detestable Yazzoo
Bra - Eleanor the slinky freelancer
Ukr and Fra - Nicol (this would be OK, except he doesn't want the money)
Por - Steve F (This would be OK too)
Ita - Itsuko (this would be OK too)
Eng - Angela the Colombian placement (this would be OK too, but I have discounted it as a serious possibility)

Come to think of it, there are only two that wouldn't be OK. One for being a cow, and one for being a tight-arsed git.

It only matters because I have to hand over the prize money.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:36 (nineteen years ago)

I am trying hard to remember what the answer to McCulloch's question was. It is somehow hilarious. But it is not coming to mind.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

YAZZOO MUST GO

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:41 (nineteen years ago)

That's what I'm hoping for, Konal.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

i almost hope that Portugal do play Brazil so that the score bug thing reads POR BRA

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

a bloke from work met Zidane a couple of months ago at a petrol station not far from the office..

Had I known this earlier and would have applied inmediately for a job as cashier or something there. I assume he has already sold the house and everything in madrid by now, bollocks.

― olenska (olenska), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

I am trying hard to remember what the answer to McCulloch's question was. It is somehow hilarious. But it is not coming to mind.

"He said, 'Pink Floyd. Genesis. And...Mud.'"

YAZZOO MUST GO

Yazzoo don't go, more like. She's obviously after my time, PJM. Ah, the lovely Itsuko. We have a new receptionist - her name is Al3x B3st, like former wife of El Beatle. I have no more news.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:53 (nineteen years ago)

(It really freaks me out when PJM and I banter about work and then someone called "rania" posts.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

That's enough the pair of you.

― Michael and PJ's Boss (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

(We work in separate places now. So "our" boss would be...Bruc3 Spr1ngst33n?)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 29 June 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

We never really had the same boss, did we, what with you being an integral part of the Girls' Department.

I mean Yazz Ming, who resigned, but is still here six months later, slagging everyone and everything off all the time.

What comes before "Like oo?"

I got that Paul Morley "curated" comp because it has a Will Sergeant single on it, and I thought it might be good.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 29 June 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

For the record: I MISS MIKE*.

*Even if he is a c*nt.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 29 June 2006 12:31 (nineteen years ago)

Rest day news:

Barcelona ace Ronaldinho has revealed he's Manchester United-mad while on international duty with Brazil. The Mirror says Ronaldinho has surprised his Brazil colleagues by repeatedly choosing to play as Manchester United in computer football games during the squad's spare time. Over several hours, during games with team-mate Emerson, he opted for the Reds over his own team, Barcelona.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, and Sepp Blatter says England are boring.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

boring > corrupt tosspot

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:41 (nineteen years ago)

I agree. Next time I see him I think I'll make monkey noises at him.

― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:45 (nineteen years ago)

http://msnsport.skysports.com/worldcup/homearticle.aspx?hlid=399390&CPID=4&clid=&lid=4161&title=POLL+ENDS+INTERNATIONAL+CAREER

Does anyone else find this absurd? I don't mean the decision, I mean the things he actually says.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:46 (nineteen years ago)

a bit overblown yes

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

maybe one day, you can say, with your grandson on your lap, maybe you could've refereed the World Cup final - and I haven't

― Baaderonixx immer wieder (baaderonixx), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

It's the only comment Graham Poll will be making on World Cup 2006.

... says Graham Poll. It seems dubious from that point on.

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:02 (nineteen years ago)

> I got that Paul Morley "curated" comp because it has a Will Sergeant single on it, and I thought it might be good.

(pricks up ears)*

will sergeant's done a bunch or non-bunnymen stuff. is this the grind stuff or the glide stuff? or the weird as fish stuff? ah, the latter. was out a few years ago now on Ochre (cheltenham based label, now defunct?). all pleasant enough and worth a listen. his club night looks great though. (and three mp3 downloads on there as well, under 'Sonic')

* um, that sounds a bit rude.

― koogy wonderland (koogs), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:20 (nineteen years ago)

I hope Blair's eventual resignation speech borrows heavily from Poll's...

I've had three terms in office. None have gone right or worked out for me for various reasons. You say in life, if one thing goes wrong, you're unlucky. Two, maybe you're really unlucky. If it's three, you have to look at yourself and say maybe something's not right there. I don't enjoy time away from home. It's a difficulty for me as I've got young children. I wouldn't be going to electorate again, that decision is taken. It's not a knee-jerk decision, I discussed it with the cabinet already and it's time for someone else from England to have a go.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

"it's purely for Sky Sports".

yes, you looked really bad on the telly the other night.

― michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 29 June 2006 17:23 (nineteen years ago)

I had to share this:

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 29 June 2006 23:27 (nineteen years ago)

I hope Germany and Argentina both somehow contrive to get kncoked out today. I suppose they will have to be very very naughty for this to happen.

I think referees need to stop thinking refereeing is a big deal.

Koogs, it is "Fuzztronics" or something.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 30 June 2006 06:38 (nineteen years ago)

Ronaldo's secret diet revealed:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/06/30/sports/30ronoldo190.1.jpg

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 30 June 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

PS: Should we have thread vier for the quarter finals?

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Friday, 30 June 2006 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

Yup.

― Earwig oh! (Mark C), Friday, 30 June 2006 09:25 (nineteen years ago)

I mean Yazz Ming, who resigned, but is still here six months later, slagging everyone and everything off all the time.

Oh, yes, I did think you might've meant her but I thought I better not say in case you two were best buddies. It was different, once. Her defining trait in the old days was chuckling at D0n't Wa1t Up; the incessant moaning came later. But in mid 2003-early 2004 it was a good place to work. Blame the Greek.

What comes before "Like oo?"

WS is explaining to IMcC that the Bunnymen are continuing without him. "Lots of good bands have carried on without their original singer," he says...

This all leads up to WS's doleful "Bunnymen without Mac? Nein danke." Which is my favourite moment of TV of all time. Better even than Fletcher falling through the bar in a bathtub in Last of the Robin's Nest.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 30 June 2006 12:05 (nineteen years ago)

Ah yes, now I remember. Why can't we subtitle that?

We are not best buddies, no. She probably thinks I think we are though.

Yes, I do blame the Greek.

It is time for thread vier - only 90 minutes to go!

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 30 June 2006 12:22 (nineteen years ago)

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World Cup Germany 2006 - Thread Drei