Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

Now the Finns.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7082795.stm

:/

global epidemic spreads unchecked using news media as vector

High school shooting in Finland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7246003.stm

i mean come on this shit is old now

ffs not again

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7936817.stm

*placeholder for insensitive comment*

I can't get the story to load. Probably for the better. (Sigh)

this one too, alabama

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/10/shooting.alabama/

In summary: At least ten people are believed to have been killed in a shooting spree at a German school. Shooter believed to be a former pupil (oh wait that bit has now been removed). Shooter thought to be in custody.

xpost

10 dead at both shootings on the same day wtf.

15 dead in germany now.
wasnt someone shot at a church in the USA over the weekend too?

http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_gadget.phtml#rt2ig1_1236782715

wait a minute, meant to indicate it's a full moon atm.

wasnt someone shot at a church in the USA over the weekend too?

― Pfunkboy in blood drenched rabbit suit jamming in the woods (Herman G. Neuname)

yep

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting

Also, the economy. Not meant to be flip, btw, but isn't there usually an upswing in this type of crap when the economy tanks? I seem to remember a bunch of workplace shooting lined up with the 90s recession.

i don't think 17-year old Rammstein fans are motivated by the mortgage bubble bursting, jon

17-year old Rammstein fans

classy

It was a general comment, hadn't really delved in the details of any of the stories. I was just wondering about how trends like this tie in with the global economy turning to shit.

There was that one dude who killed his wife and kids and self because he couldn't afford to take care of them all with two jobs and it was mega-sad.

The idea that a man's worth is in his productivity/success and that if HE can't be "successful" then everyone who was his responsibility must cease to exist, is just..........beyond. I can hardly form sentences when I think about this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/nursing_home_shooting

A NURSING HOME. What do you have to do to be even worse than your average spree shooter? Murder a bunch of helpless fogeys, apparently.

I'm sure this has been said before, but It's kind of disheartening how these mass murders have become an accepted fact of life. This was the 4th story on NPR's hourly news report today. Yeah, there is a lot of stuff going on in the world and maybe this is the forth most important story of the day, but holy shit we've become accustomed to this kind of violence. It barely registers anymore.

There was also a story today about some 17 year old guy who has stabbed one sister and then cut the other (5 years old!) one's head off, in front of a 3rd sister... he was still hacking at the 5 year olds head when the cops got there.

Just... what.

Perhaps, but then again I believe these things have always happened all the time, everywhere, they're just far more publicized now due to 24-hour-news cycles. It's still a sad thing, but people "randomly going nuts" and doing these horrible things is inevitable in every society.

but holy shit we've become accustomed to this kind of violence. It barely registers anymore.

― Super Cub, Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:36 PM

ya some people even think its great (see thread title)

It's still a sad thing, but people "randomly going nuts" and doing these horrible things is inevitable in every society.

Actually, I think there have been societies where murder is
virtually non-existent. Usually these sort of societies have had a very strong social cohesion and a strict set of shared moralities though, with little room for nonconformism. I would assume there's a lot of variation between different countries of the world in the frequency of murder sprees though. It's inevitable in any society that people will go nuts, but the choices of what you do when you go nuts seem to be at least partially influenced by your surrounding culture. And in most Western societies a shooting spree seems to have become one of the "viable" alternatives for action, sadly. In the first school shooting spree in Finland, for example, it was later found out that the killer had some strong fascist/social Darwinist ideas and that he idolized the Columbine shooters.

Actually, I think there have been societies where murder is virtually non-existent

wanna come up with some examples, cause I don't buy this at all / have never heard of such societies outside of the lyrics to 'cortez the killer'. "strong social cohesion" isn't gonna overpower certain mental/psychological disorders that some people are simply born with.

(sorry)

wanna come up with some examples, cause I don't buy this at all / have never heard of such societies outside of the lyrics to 'cortez the killer'. "strong social cohesion" isn't gonna overpower certain mental/psychological disorders that some people are simply born with.

I remember reading in some sociology textbook that certain Buddhist communities in Asia have had virtually no violent crime at all, but I can't find any information on that online right now. I probably shoudln't have used the word "society", since what I was talking about was small, geographically limited communities. Anyway, I don't really think there are any psychological disorders that people are born with, certainly not ones that automatically lead to a murder spree. Or can you name any?

There was also a story today about some 17 year old guy who has stabbed one sister and then cut the other (5 years old!) one's head off, in front of a 3rd sister... he was still hacking at the 5 year olds head when the cops got there.

Just... what.

― one art, please (Trayce), Monday, 30 March 2009 03:46 (8 hours ago) Bookmark

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090330/twl-man-murders-his-sisters-at-birthday-3fd0ae9.html

The policeman broke into the house and witnessed Revelus decapitating five-year-old Bianca, whose birthday cake was on the kitchen table.

Thanks for highlighting that.

really belongs on one of those "what the fuck is wrong with people/nuclear holocaust in 3 seconds" threads :-/

doesn't get much more fucked-up than that

Why do I even look at these threads?

I still can't believe that story. (Sadly, I can believe it happened in the Boston area.)

I really wish I hadn't even looked at this thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/04/nyregion/04hostage.html?hp

now with extra xenophobia. Yay, America.

^^ Huge conclusion-jump in that post -- see other thread for context

P.S. Re: the above thing about mental illness and society, I'm pretty sure most everything we know indicates that lots of deep mental illness has a big biological component, but the behavior that illness actually results in is heavily shaped by culture and environment.* But a lot of this is environment/culture in the kind of deep-down way that you can't exactly just decide to change one day.

* E.g., there are minor neuroses (like weird phobias) that are common and specific to certain cultures

Countries with stricter gun control like Britain and Japan (I think) have fewer shooting sprees and drive bys than we do in America. I think there are countries where cops don't even regularly carry guns.

and yet Japan has highest suicide rate in the world

also they grope womens on the train

and work way too hard and enjoy rape porn

also cartoons with school girls with penises.

Americans don't enjoy rape porn AT ALL.

Well, yes, limited access to guns is a pretty obvious physical way of keeping people from behaving certain ways with them

I was using that as an obvious example of behavior being shaped by culture and environment. Maybe if the Japanese had as easy access to guns as Americans do, they'd be less into rape porn and shoot each other more.

The fact that a country has a social problem doesn't imply anything about the success/failure of its gun control policies, does it?

"Country X places a high prices on tobacco products and as a result few of their citizens smoke nowadays."
"Yeah, but Country X's students score poorly on Science and Reading Comprehension."

??

Maybe we should be arming Japanese when they come to US just to see.

this is where i'm from. trying to get in touch with my mother, but she's a hospital administrator right down the road from the shooting and likely is very busy atm. she left me a voicemail earlier saying everything was ok, so im hoping for the best, but i'm really freaking out right now

Here's hoping she and staff are working well and helping people

Best wishes to you and yr ma, k3vin.

Japan has had several mass killings in recent years, but thankfully the death tolls have been smaller. The attackers have used knives. Gun violence is very unusual in Japan and usually involves organized crime hits.

xpost

Aum Shuriya bitchez

Shinrikyo even

god I can't type today

yeah when i first saw the headline all it said was new york state (i.e., not nyc) so i kind of gasped but i am not from that part, glad yr mom is ok k3vin

talked to my mom, everyone we know is ok. my stepfather performed surgery on one of the '5 taken to a hospital' and he is going to live. it's a pretty small city with shitty internal communication, so my mom said they thought there were going to be around 40 deaths earlier, but now it appears there will be under 20.

i have a feeling we'll be seeing more and more of these.

> ^^ Huge conclusion-jump in that post -- see other thread for context

It's my specialty. I'm not just going to give it up.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/04/03/state/n092921D51.DTL&tsp=1

Killer Santa used coke before rampage.

i have a feeling we'll be seeing more and more of these.

― Beatrix Kiddo, den 3 april 2009 20:10 (3 hours ago) Bookmark

feels like we are already?

3 police officers killed in Pittsburgh. The carnage continues.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/us/05pittsburgh.html?hp

now with extra xenophobia. Yay, America.

― Zero Transfats Waller (Oilyrags

or not, since the shooter was an immigrant. small relief, for some reason.

strange as it sounds, it is possible for immigrants to be xenophobic.

rolling 2008 disgruntled shootings thread

dr phil in behind the times shocker

And so it continues :(

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/04/5-children-father-found-d_n_183207.html

guh guys killing their entire family and then themselves is like a fucked up category all its own. and in everyone of these stories there's a neighbor or someone saying "eh, he seemed like a nice guy"

yep, bottling up all that depression and rage away from the neighbors is key to the formula

i am calm in the knowledge that every neighbour i've had thinks i'm a surly asshole

Actually, I think there have been societies where murder is virtually non-existent

wanna come up with some examples, cause I don't buy this at all / have never heard of such societies outside of the lyrics to 'cortez the killer'. "strong social cohesion" isn't gonna overpower certain mental/psychological disorders that some people are simply born with.

― iatee, Monday, March 30, 2009 3:13 AM (1 week ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

bambuti pygmies

guh guys killing their entire family and then themselves is like a fucked up category all its own.

This is about ownership -- or, even more creepily, a deep-seated belief that your wife and kids are really just extensions of you, and your failure is their failure. Cannot emphasize this enough.

Sure it's a tragedy for all parties but forgive me if I can't find any sympathy for men who emotionally, deep down, believe that kind of thing. "Since I can't care for this thing I created, it is mine to take out of the world when I go."

or, indeed, women.

Sure. But that's a different phenomenon.

i think it's the same dynamic, whether it's fuelled by power (in the cases by father) or despair (as the few high profiles cases involving mothers in ireland have maybe been), though- "you can't go on without me".

now with extra xenophobia. Yay, America.

lol

Hmm. Maybe you've had more cases in the news involving mothers -- I don't feel like that's very high-profile here. Seems like...we think mothers kill from post-partum depression or anger/frustration (shaken baby syndrome), but we don't have the ownership thing so much.

Maybe you've had more cases in the news involving mothers

yeah, definitely (ireland). whether that's a reporting thing or otherwise, it's hard to say, but i don't think it would account for all of it (a guy killing his family would still be front page news in a country this size, but i suppose a mother even more so).

It's an interesting question whether it's in the reporting, or in the different societal conceptions of mothers that apply different pressures to people.

The gunman in the Pittshurgh police shooting was apparently one of the Alex Jones/tin hat crowd.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09095/960750-53.stm

Even more charming stuff.

yeah, definitely (ireland)

Is Ireland the only place that has a folk history of songs about infanticide? (OK, I know - a whole different thread but it immediately struck me when I read that.

i dunno, name another? it's definitely a valid subgenre that exists.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/world/middleeast/12iraq.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

Active military gets in on the act.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345713.stm

http://www.kxxv.com/global/story.asp?s=11451553

i just hope they kill some cops

sort of deflated that (obviously retarded) argument that if everyone had guns shootings wouldn't be a problem in amurica.

can't be a man without guns, world's a better place with guns ~crosses arms~

*shoots omar in the arms*

it'll take a lot more than that

http://images.publicradio.org/content/2008/06/06/20080606_steroiduser2.jpg

america went a relatively long time without this happening

*deflates omar's arms with a safety pin**

cankles, thats a really shitty thing to say.

sssssssss

Fort Hood, near the town of Killeen, is the largest US base in the world.

killeen incidentally the location of the 2nd deadliest shooting spree in US history

killeen spree

I bet, from now on, there will be media races to grab tags like FtHoodShootings.

maybe 3 gunmen now being reported

yeah it's sad that there are people here won't ever accept the proposition that maybe, just maybe there are too many guns in this country

it was on a military base! the argt that there are too many or too few guns in civilian hands is kind of moot. (unless i'm missing some crucial detail to the whole thing) no matter what kind of gun-ownership situation we have, there are going to be some guns at fort hood.

For the most part, no one has guns on a military base outside of MPs and people using them on-duty. Soldiers can register private weapons on base, but they have to be locked up and transported to and from hunting/range without deviation.

surely it doesn't matter where it was- if people have access to guns, eventually someone is going to use them to shoot a bunch of people.

Update 3:36 Fort Hood officials say they cannot confirm whether the shooters were military or civilians.

^^ yeah maybe i spoke too soon.

surely it doesn't matter where it was- if people have access to guns, eventually someone is going to use them to shoot a bunch of people.

... Really? Isn't that like saying "if people have access to knives, eventually someone is going to use them to stab a bunch of people"?

I mean, I am not an advocate of widespread gun access but I am also not an advocate of making up bullshit premises so you can scare people into doing what you want them to do.

yeah i've got fam at ft hood right now

waiting on word

(I would likely support the argument that guns have been desensitized into playthings and we, as a society, have become too irresponsible to be trusted with them as a reason for gun control)

Dan: Yes but at least knives have other uses? Guns can't prepare food, they just kill.

Um... what?

i dunno. i'm all tv-ed out.

are you saying that the military shouldnt have guns

U.S. Rep. McCaul, maybe unaware soldiers are suspects, calls shooting "coordinated attack against our military" and "an act of terror."

shhhh prez is on..

There you go, Cankles:
General says dead include a civilian police officer from the Ft. Hood police force.

brb, gonna go shoot up some fried turkey

I hear it's hell on the veins

(Hoos, I hope yr family is okay)

ditto

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html

In June, Fort Hood's commander, Lt. Gen. Rick Lynch, told CNN that he was trying to ease the kind of stresses soldiers face. He has pushed for soldiers working a day schedule to return home for dinner by 6 p.m., and required his personal authorization for anyone working weekends. At the time, two soldiers stationed there had committed suicide in 2009 -- a rate well below those of other posts.

tbh this is much better than my job, minus today's shootings and the suicide stats

Hmmm...

Update 4:08 ABC News reports shooter's identity is Malique Hassan.

oh, that's just great...

Apparently all three gunmen were soldiers.

Have they released the names of the two surviving suspects?

please let their names be buck utah and deke america : /

Nothing as yet

i guess that makes my point completely moot. doh! still bad tho

There was a foiled terrist plot here last year that involved somali muslim idiots planning to shoot up an army base :/ I hope the US media don't leap on that as some kind of link :/

He was a Major. 39-40 years old.

Naleek Nahal Assan

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572350,00.html

Major Malik Nadal Hasan

I admit I wasn't expecting this to be a middle aged officer.

I was just reading the Rolling Stone article about the murders at Fort Carson earlier today and I couldn't help but wonder at first if this was another case of a returning vet snapping after a complete lack of support.

OK, the local right wing host is shouting to the skies, demanding to know why the FBI won't call this an act of "jihadist terrorism." "Why are they being so politically correct?" he's saying. Gee, maybe because the FBI doesn't have all the information yet?

Wouldn't want to be a Muslim in the armed forces right now.

Seems like while there are two other soldiers held as suspects at present only Hasan was the shooter.

Actually, wouldn't want to be anyone in the armed forces right now.

xpost

please let their names be buck utah and deke america : /

― jØrdån (omar little), Thursday, November 5, 2009 10:26 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^^

xpost Maybe he went postal because everyone assumed he was Muslim?

recent convert to Islam
originally from Virginia

“US Army Major Malik Nadal Hasan” sounds as ridiculous as “President Barack Hussein Ubama”.
God help America.

45 posted on Thu Nov 5 14:49:55 2009 by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Fuck this country.

let the xenophobia commence!

amurrica

lol malik hasan was a doctor

A psychiatrist even. Okay every further new detail about this case makes my head spin.

Holy hell.

Good luck USA :/

wow

weird detail: "At the time, two soldiers stationed there had committed suicide in 2009 -- a rate well below those of other posts."

Interesting how this will be spun as terrorism, but the beltway snipers were just... uh... serial killers who talked about jihad.

how did I go all day without knowing about this

lol, CNN's reporting consists of a shot of them googling hasan and showing the browser results

lol, CNN's reporting consists of a shot of them googling hasan and showing the browser results

― spergliacci (cankles), Thursday, November 5, 2009 11:42 PM (1 second ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it'd be great if they had some adware on the comp. and got redirected to persianpoontang.com.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/78425.html

WASHINGTON — The Army major suspected of opening fire on soldiers as they were preparing to deploy overseas at the massive Fort Hood military base in central Texas Thursday may have been an Army psychiatrist who recently completed training in disaster and preventive psychiatry at Walter Reed Medical Center in the nation's capital.

A military official who asked not to be identified said the gunman was Army Major Malik Nidal Hasan, 39. Hasan was killed after he opened fire at Fort Hood's Soldiers Readiness Processing Center.

The official provided no other information on Hasan. But Virginia state medical licensing records list a Nidal Malik Hasan as a psychiatrist for the Army Medical Corps, with his primary practice at Darnall Army Medical Center at Fort Hood. The phone number listed for him in the Virginia records, which carried a Maryland area code, was unanswered.

According to the records, Hasan completed a residency in psychiatry at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C. in 2007 and additional training in disaster and preventive psychiatry at Uniformed Services University Of the Health Sciences F. Edward Herbert School of Medicine, in Bethesda, Md.. At least 12 people were killed and 31 wounded in a shooting at Fort Hood Army Base near Killeen, Texas, when at least one gunmen opened fire on soldiers who were making their final deployment preparations.

so a dude with the wrong kind of ethnic name went crazy huh

Shooter's Facebook page, apparently.

that guy doesn't even have the same name

Xenophobic racist cuntflap Debbie Schlussel tweets: "Ft. Hood Killer Nidal Malik Hasan MD, Warned U bout Muslim Doctors"

god fuck this gay earth imo

http://5.media.tumblr.com/uy3vPf1XrnxrtvwkcsQRmUtso1_500.jpg

it would be so easy

god isn't gay tho xp

guys, its just murder

god is gay as hell

It'll be the Scientologists having the field day with this one. "We TOLD you psychiatrists are evil!"

your butthole is too small to fuck with god

Wasn't that a Modest Mouse album?

no, you're thinking of Muslims Are Too Gay For Buttholes

glad this thread finally got back on topic

on fn right now dude that worked with suspect saying he was "increasingly agitated about the conflicts in iraq and afghanistan" and was expressing a desire for "muslims to rise up against the aggressor"

i'm real curious to hear what these other 2 dudes are about

13th person now dead.

cousin saying he was not a convert, born & raised a muslim in america. "we're shocked, trying to make sense of this. i want people watching to understand that he was a good american, and we're just as shocked and saddened at the loss of americans as the rest of the country right now. he was not a violent guy. this was a guy that didn't even like going to the firing range."

two dudes taken into custody earlier have now been released!!?

pretty good aim for a guy that didn't like the firing range

Figured they would be.

Xpost to Hoos rather than cankles ffs

muslim angle so far not even being mentioned in news here, thank god.

john carter on fn saying those two men have been released and someone new has been taken into custody. "dozens of reports" from soldiers on site that there were rifle shots fired in addition to the psychiatrist's handgun fire.

sen kb hutch just said that dude was targeting specific people he knew

so, he's a virginia tech alum...

that's just fucking weird. A coincidence, obv, but still.

god fuck this gay earth imo

― how rad bandit (gbx), Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:59 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

when we get our pink uzis, i'll make sure to find you and kill your first, fuckin homophobic shitbag.

btw the shooter is apparently not dead

so crazy

xx-post

woah, what O_O?

when we get our pink uzis, i'll make sure to find you and kill your first, fuckin homophobic shitbag.

― my bach penises and their contrapuntal technique (the table is the table), Thursday, November 5, 2009 8:26 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

"fuck this gay earth" is a little known ilx meme started by cankles

well if cankles said it, it must not be homophobic

also, hope all is well with the fam, hoos. this is terrible.

still isn't funny. sorry.

did he really go to VT?

that's what his cousin said when talking to shep

jeez

assume that's right, it seems impossible that the VT shooting didn't influence him at some level, be it subconsciously or consciously...

fam is ok guys

thx

this is so fuckin nuts we were all panicking a lil at the beginning when they were like "there is a suspect still at large"

CBS news says shooter is alive and in stable condition, being guarded. Friend of mine is a correspondent for Stars & Stripes, went and talked to the guy's neighbors at his apartment in Maryland. They all described him a quiet and polite, wore traditional Muslim garb when off-duty. Stories are suggesting that dude might have been being harassed by other soldiers for being Muslim, called a "raghead," had "Allah" scratched into his car, etc.

So we're back down to one shooter in custody as opposed to one dead, one captured? Bizarre.

Bizarre... and also, I cannot....begin...to....fathom....being a Muslim in the US military. fuckin hell.

it would be interesting to see how this plays out if when he recovers he says "this has nothing to do with jihad and everything to do with me being harrassed like crazy for my beliefs".

especially if he was at least initially specifically targeting certain soldiers

What would Fox news types say if a devout christian wound up in this position I cant help wondering.

It's already happened. they'd ignore it, or brush it off as a lone wacko, same as all the other mass gun shootings by angry white reactionaries in the last year

damn this fucking sucks that he was muslim

I think the degree to which the muslim component gets played up in the news will largely depend on how he answers for what he's done. If he comes out screaming jihad then, well, that is just the last thing this already terrible situation needs. But if his reasoning is more personal, I doubt the media will run w/ the muslim thing. Obv what people say behind closed doors is another matter entirely.

I'm sorta trying to figure out the course of events -- apparently all casualties were in the location of the first reports, but there was a second burst of shooting a half hour later. I suppose it may be that that reflects when Hasan was caught or brought down.

At this point it sounds more like that this guy was exhibiting plenty of bad signals in advance, so (a bit like the Va. Tech shooter) I'd like to know what if anything was done/noted about that. He obviously has a superior officer, so what happened there?

Well, he was a psychiatrist, so he was the one in charge of giving others psychiatric evaluations, not the reverse. A superior officer would probably have to clear all kinds of red tape to get a psych to undergo some sort of third-party evaluation. Just a guess, really.

He or she is still the superior officer nonetheless, though. Not saying said person is somehow answerable for all this horror, just that from the sound of it I would have assumed some action was already taken prior to this. I don't envy that person at all right now.

If the guy were to be made to undergo an evaluation, if he had his wits about him at all he most likely would have known just the right answers to give to stave off suspicion. Not saying that the military doesn't need to keep strict tabs on the goings-on of its fellows, but if anyone were to be in any position to remain under the radar w/ such tendencies, it would be someone in his position.

True but if you have coworkers saying that he was known to be a loose cannon on some matters then it's not like something wasn't known. Well, we'll all have to wait to see what formal details emerge more. The hearsay doesn't sound particularly helpful to his cause, then again hearsay had this initially as a team of three shooters rather than one, so.

Didn't know about the "loose cannon" thing but, obv, yeah, you'd think something like that would have raised some red flags.

There were reports earlier that he'd recently received a negative Officer Evaluation Report, right? Which is rare for an officer, in my limited experience. Maybe even rarer for a doctor. (I assume his superior was also a doctor -- probably a colonel.) Also reports that he'd argued a lot with other soldiers about whether we should continue in Iraq and Afghanistan. But his Evaluation woluldn't be part of the public record, and I'm not sure we'll ever find out why that report was negative -- or why, if he wasn't adequately doing his job, he may still have been counseling or treating soldiers. (Actually, though, do we even know he was treating soldiers? Have any reports thus far on what his military job entailed? Occurs to me that plenty of soldiers he might have been working with may well have been just as apprehensive about deploying as he apparently was. And obviously, he was internalizing their apprehension all along. But I'm also guessing that, as a military shrink, part of his job may have been to reassure them that their fears were unfounded; at very least, he'd be required to be committed to the larger mission, like any other officer. So he was clearly conflicted in multiple ways, and quite possibly in ways that affected his day to day duties as a soldier.)

Actually, though, do we even know he was treating soldiers? - that was just an assumption on my part & it seems you know a fair amount more about such things than myself.

xp..."Have there been any reports thus far on what...," I meant.

Btw, the Virgina Tech connection seems like a red herring to me; the shooting there happened, what, a decade or so after he'd graduated? (Think I'd read 1997 somewhere, unless I misinterpreted something.)

NYT:

“He was doing everything he could to avoid that,” Mr. Hasan said. “He wanted to do whatever he could within the rules to make sure he wouldn’t go over.”

Several years ago, that included retaining a lawyer and making inquiries about whether he could get out of the Army before his contract was up, because of the harassment he had received as a Muslim. But Nader Hasan said the lawyer had told his cousin that even if he paid the Army back for his education, it would not allow him to leave before his commitment was up.

“I think he gave up that fight and was just doing his time,” Mr. Hasan said.

I didnt think it was *that* hard to get out of the forces was it? :/

In wartime, it's apparently pretty tough. (Not all that easy in peacetime, either.)

So he did something not within the rules, to avoid going over.

Fwiw, I don't think being opposed to involvement in the Middle East, maybe even vocally, would be that rare for a soldier these days; there's at least one coffee shop outside of Fort Hood that serves as a sort of off-duty refuge for soldiers questioning just that. (Local Austin papers have reported on it.) Might be rarer, though, for an officer -- especially one who's not supposed to fraternize with enlisteds on a social level (and maybe doubly so for a psychiatrist, who can't ethically socialize with his patients, right?) Still, these days, and this many years into the war, I'd guess that political opinions might be fairly diverse across the ranks. On the other hand, clearly the guy was scared shitless about deploying -- morally and politically opposed maybe, but also personally scared. (I haven't read how soon he was supposed to move, but apparently it was soon.)

I don't know how hard it is to get out, but having the government pay for a very expensive education that provided specialized training in a much-needed area probably makes it harder.

Agreed that VT connection is most likely a red herring.

xposts

He was recently relocated to Ft. Hood from the Mid-Atlantic.

Also, can this get it's own thread (deadlier than Columbine, etc.)?

deadlier than Columbine, etc. - tallies aside, the real clincher here is that we have someone who will have to answer for such a godawful thing. If I'm not a mistaken, this is a first for the new era of mass shootings, young children aside?

there prob should be a thread

That Times piece actually answers some of the questions I raised:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/06/us/06suspect.html?_r=1&hp

Having counseled scores of returning soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder, first at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington and more recently at Fort Hood, he knew all too well the terrifying realities of war, said a cousin, Nader Hasan.

“He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy,” Mr. Hasan said. “He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there.”

Also mentions questionable Internet posts by somebody who may or may not have been Hasan, though the FBI had been taking note of them.

Curious about this, too: The Times piece claims "he joined the Army right out of high school" -- which, if he's 39, probably means over 20 years ago. If didn't graduate from Virgina Tech until 2007, that means he would have been 27 when he finished his undergrad -- apparently on a full-tuition ROTC scholarship. I'm not sure whether that suggests he was an enlisted soldier before college, or whether the NYT is confusing signing a ROTC contract with "joining the Army," when in fact he wouldn't actually be in the Army until college ended. (The Times piece goes on to say that the Army also paid for him to go to med school.)

dedicated thread:
Fort Hood Shootings Nov 05, 2009 (suspect Major Malik Nadal Hasan)

“He was mortified by the idea of having to deploy,” Mr. Hasan said. “He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there.”

Srsly, why the heck do people join the defence forces if this is how they feel about war, wtf.

I've known a couple people who got in (and back out) of the service to help them get their act together, go to college, or to pay for medical school - they accept that they might have to deploy but are hoping that they'll miss out. If this guy joined up 20 years ago he probably thought he was going to be fine as there weren't actual combat situations happening.

Oh whatever. If you don't want to fight, don't volunteer for the armed forces. The armed forces fight. That's what they do. That's why they exist.

Let's assume that war is crazy. Let's assume that a military psychiatrist is burdened with an impossible task of convincing American Service men and women that war is in their best interest as a people.

I have plenty of sympathy for people who join and realize some time later that they can't do it anymore. That's different than joining with the calculation that fighting can somehow be avoided.

I agree, don't gamble on not having to go to war if you aren't ready to do it. I'm just saying there are people who do this and hope that they won't ever have to. My uncle had his medical school paid for by serving in the air force in the 80s and paid it back by working at a rural US base as an OB/GYN for four years. There's no way in hell he could have become a doctor otherwise and he lucked out.

This guy had been in the military for over 20 years, tho, & had only recently acquired an islamofascist worldview. Yes, in theory he probably should have promptly retired from his position when he made up his mind to adopt such beliefs, but dude was obviously not playing with a full deck at that point.

Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

my point with virginia tech is that if someone from the school you went to goes and has a massacre you are going to be thinking about massacres more than people who didn't go to that school. any virginia tech alum is going to have taken that situation a lot more personally than people who have never been there, so at the very least it was in his headdd. somewhereeee.

sorta like how suicide is more common in places where there's lots of suicide in the news.

I can see how people join the military but don't actually want to fight. The military's use of incentives as a recruiting tactic have basically turned it into a social welfare organ. Still, anyone who joins ought to realize that they could be called on to kill and die.

xxpost

This guy was career physician though, so it's not like he was being called up to "fight." It just happened that there was a perfect storm that he had actually been called upon to serve the very cause that his recently-adopted beliefs so thoroughly negated. Add to that the factor of mental illness/instability & it was just the tipping point in his house of cards. You can only go so far to rationalize a situation that is, itself, completely irrational.

full o typos - sry.

the real clincher here is that we have someone who will have to answer for such a godawful thing

yeah, i really hope he stays alive. the mass murder-suicide always feels like a cheat. you want to sit the (pardon the language but, you know) motherfucker down in a courtroom and make him listen to the victims and the survivors. it may or may not have any effect on him, but who cares about him. it's good for everyone else.

Yeah, I just hope he comes to the point of, if not actual atonement, at least taking some sort of personal responsibility. If he comes out all "praise be to Allah!" fuck - I think we can all agree that the last thing we need to come of this is a whole new cycle of sociopolitical xenophobia. I mean, that is inevitable at this point anyway, probably, but the less amplified it is the better, obv.

This should all probably be moved to Steve's thread, anyway.

when we get our pink uzis, i'll make sure to find you and kill your first, fuckin homophobic shitbag.

jesus christ.

you realize how tasteless that is on a spree shooting thread? like way more tasteless than "god fuck this gay earth" which is tasteless but certainly nowhere near warranting a death threat?

safety tip: don't join the homicidal international gangster US military, one of the most evil forces on earth. Sorry, but truth.

does Fort Hood have a cute little logo that people can put on their facebook profiles to show how sensitive and caring they are? Preferably with a ribbon on it.

or is that just for college victims.

Morbs: let's see if you're still singin' that tune when a United Planets cruiser has to rescue your beautiful daughter from the destrucltive power of your own artificially augmented id.

crut, table had every right to be upset w/me: it was tasteless (in general), and esp on a thread like this. sorry, tables

you realize how tasteless that is on a spree shooting thread? like way more tasteless than "god fuck this gay earth" which is tasteless but certainly nowhere near warranting a death threat?

― the passos of unbanned sock (Curt1s Stephens), Friday, November 6, 2009 2:28 AM (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Tbh I agree with Curtis. I didn't say anything last night but I'm glad that he did. I really don't think anything warrants a fucking death threat even if it wasn't serious and certainly not on a thread about a shooting spree. To be totally honest, I'm surprised tables wasn't temp banned for that. I thought it was pretty horrifying.

I didn't see it until this morning. However, I would likely have tempbanned both of them because:

a) death threats on a spree-shooting thread are incredibly stupid;
b) quoting seemingly homophobic subboard memes to a mainstream audience on a touchy thread where emotions are running high is also stupid

The basic moral of the story is "think about who you're talking to before you post". Let's move on.

dan is otm---it was pretty thoughtless of me, sorry!

can we tempban people for uncritically using the phrase "islamofascist worldview"

ha i wanted to point that out too :(

I just used that phrase to indicate that the guy had been indoctrinated to, or at least sympathetic with, some degree of radical Islam. I'm sorry if that is not the proper terminology, but I was using it to state what, in this case, has already been revealed as fact & not making some reactionary assumption.

Tempban away tho, if you like.

I just looked it up & yeah, bad phrasing. Sorry about that. I was typing pretty fast when I was posting on this thread last night. Normally, I would cross-check a term I had any doubts about, but it is what it is.

Has it been revealed as fact? All I've seen is the 7-11 vid of him wearing trad garb, and an AP bit where some witnesses said he was shouting @ll@hu @kb@r as he started shooting.

His superior officer, in a clip I watched last night, stated in an interview that he had become sympathetic w/ suicide bombers & other anti-American insurgents. If there have been any new developments which negate this, all the better. I really hope it is something else actually.

His superior officer, in a clip I watched last night, stated in an interview that he had become sympathetic w/ suicide bombers & other anti-American insurgents

And the response was...?

Given the scope of these murders and potential media vulturing, I created a dedicated thread here:

Fort Hood Shootings Nov 05, 2009 (suspect Major Malik Nadal Hasan)

First I've heard of his superior officer saying that, and it doesn't strike me as something an officer would say publicly -- and yeah, I'm skeptical that, if he had become sympathetic in that way, something wouldn't have been done. Those message board posts, though, if they are indeed his, seem to suggest a sympathy with suicide bombers. (But the people I've heard interviewed in his hometown, mainly in the Times -- the imam from his mosque, I believe, and his cousin -- don't seem to have thought that his view of Islam was particularly radical at all.)

Btw, the negative "Officer Evaluation Report" I mention above may not have been an OER after all; apparently it was some kind of performance report when he was working at Walter Reed. Which I guess may have been more a hospital thing than a military thing; I'm not sure. (Actually, come to think of it, there are officers in certain military specialties whose superiors aren't military at all, but civilians. Whether they would file an OER the same way as a superior officer, I'm not sure.)

And the response was...? - I just re-watched the interview, the clip Steve S posted last night at the top of the other thread. There wasn't much of a response, as the commanding officer is essentially being given an open platform to describe his relationship with the suspect (tho the "suicide bomber" comment I was referring to is something that the guy admits was hearsay - I missed that the first time around). It comes to light that the guy likely had some degree of sympathy w/ Islamic extremists. Lest I be misunderstood, I find that greatly upsetting & I hope it gets downplayed, which it obviously won't.

First I've heard of his superior officer saying that, and it doesn't strike me as something an officer would say publicly

I know, very strange, but again, that guy's going to be under a LOT of pressure right now to explain what if anything was done/could be done (per xhuxk's comments). Is pretty weird, though.

But the people I've heard interviewed in his hometown, mainly in the Times -- the imam from his mosque, I believe, and his cousin -- don't seem to have thought that his view of Islam was particularly radical at all.)

"he was such a nice boy... kept to himself mostly..."

From the looks of things now, perhaps he was harboring such sympathies privately or, alternately, his commanding officer is trumping it up as a convenient explanation.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/wesh--up-to-8-people-killed-at-orlando-office-building/1

better link: http://cbs4.com/national/orlando.office.shootings.2.1296477.html

christ alive

outlier events seem to not be lying very far out atm

what in the hell

guys, we're not men or red-blooded americans if we don't have our guns.

i think one mass shooting a week should really be enough.

I had a feeling the miserable zeitgeist would produce a copycat or two.

My military cousin was stationed at Fort Hood until just six weeks ago and worked in the very building the shootings took place yesterday. Today, I live about 1 hour away from this downtown Orlando shooting and know exactly where it's all taking place. Too close for comfort, really.

A strangely casual detail in this Orlando report:

Steve Olson, spokesman for the Florida Department of Transportation, said one of the DOTs employees, a male, was in the building on official business and was shot.

He is alive and undergoing treatment. Olson would not elaborate on the injury or release the guy's name.

"Yeah, the one dude."

Anyway this shooter's been pretty quickly identified as a former employee of a business in the building, so there's your disgruntled stereotype for the day.

Okay, the guy only worked at this place for a year, and was fired in July 2007. Can't figure out why he'd retaliate after so much time.

The only good thing about these two shooting sprees is that they captured the shitbags alive. I can't help but feel that these spree shooters are just about as reprehensible as people get, and I'm glad as hell these two are going to have to face the consequences of what they've done. Anything to upend the notion of a romantic quick exit for anyone considering this in the future.

xp it takes time for true desperation to build

Is the Corner going to call him a terrorist?

i don't see facing the consequences as a great deterrent for future disgruntled shooters tbh

Okay, the guy only worked at this place for a year, and was fired in July 2007. Can't figure out why he'd retaliate after so much time.

Maybe he got fired for being lazy.

yeah honestly... it won't deter people who are generally planning to kill themselves anyway

Maybe not, harbl, but the fewer instances of the shooter taking a bullet and getting off the hook, the better. Just instilling the notion that they might get out of it alive is a good thing.

Thinking that logic, reason, and weighing consequences plays a part in the decision process behind these events is exactly why we are so bad at preventing them from happening.

Is the Corner going to call him a terrorist?

he's hispanic, so it falls more in lou dobbs' court.

sometimes i think some of these rightwingers secretly enjoy baiting people into being racist and xenophobic dbags because naturally that will result in some blowback from the more unstable members of the maligned groups, which will then allow the rightwingers to crow about how correct they are.

hey ya, sorry gbx for the threat. obviously wasn't serious, i just get touchy about stuff like that.

and to the rest, sorry about being so incredibly tasteless. yallz is right to rebuke me...but plz don't tempban...i'll be more careful with my words in the future. i'm always trying to do this irl and on the internet.

really, this is just an awful two days.

As they brought the suspect out in handcuffs, Higgins said, "he was calm."

After the arrest, the suspect was greeted by reporters just outside the police department's doors.

"Why did you do it?" one television reporter asked.

"Because they left me to rot," Rodriguez said.

He was asked if he was angry at his employer.

"No. I'm angry," he said.

Thinking that logic, reason, and weighing consequences plays a part in the decision process behind these events is exactly why we are so bad at preventing them from happening.

I don't think that's quite what I'm suggesting. If we assume that, even if only on occasion, part of the motive behind incidents like this is to leave a mark or make a statement or acquire some level of notoriety...that doesn't exactly seem like a rational goal if the ultimate step is suicide on top of all of the other lives that have been ruined and wasted. I think there is probably a level of irrational romanticism to the act in the minds of some of these creeps, and (all questions of consequence as a deterrant aside) seeing more instances where other creeps don't get that romantic ending might cause at least a few potential creeps to pause for a bit of reflection. One would hope.

People who do things like this are sociopathic. Sociopaths do not think that rules or consequences that apply to other people apply to themselves. You are making a fundamentally flawed argument.

people like this get shit in their heads that they can't get out. they'll take a minor slight or perceived injustice (perceived because it's actually quite likely not injustice) from YEARS ago and hold a grudge against the person, or the company/school where it occurred. it builds and builds and one day, after shit still hasn't gone right, they'll snap and take it out on people who they feel have wronged them. it's pretty rare i think that people like this get slighted and then go home, get a gun, and come back shooting. when shit like that latter example occurs, i think they typically just kill the single person who they're pissed at. people who kill tons of folks without caring who they're killing (like this ft hood douchebag who killed a pregnant soldier, ffs) spend months, years wallowing in their own sociopathic tendencies.

people like this are always creeps who are totally incapable of realizing they can or have made mistakes, because everything is always everyone else's fault and not due to their own lack of effort, shortcomings, whatever.

I don't quite see it, deric... you've made the decision to kill yourself and bring a bunch of other people down with you in a romantic blaze of glory. (I don't think it's for notoriety, less than anger and revenge or mental instability) Knowing that if you are caught in the middle and survive you'll spend the rest of your life assraped in prison would probably mean more suicides by cop, or dead cops. It won't deter you from pulling off what will almost certainly be a successful mission. But I see what you're saying, this kind of thing might give some pause.

That said, I'm surprised that the two shooters were actually caught alive this time -- can't remember the last time this happened.

I haven't had time to read this thread or weigh in but earlier today two women came running down the corrider here asking in panicked tones whether I had seen "that guy dressed in all black with the backpack" who had just walked by. It turned out to be nothing but with yesterday's events and a security threat here a couple weeks ago (disgruntled employee) that necessitated police presence in the lobby, everyone is really on edge. It was pretty fucking scary until we figured out who the guy was. :(

people like this are always creeps who are totally incapable of realizing they can or have made mistakes, because everything is always everyone else's fault and not due to their own lack of effort, shortcomings, whatever.

^^^ this

2 dead, 2 injured in Tualatin, Oregon

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gjwAYKQegp2KyuNhAp0nzsoxHyQA

Dan OTM re: motive and "deterrence"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8385421.stm
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/78088192.html

4 Lakewood, WA cops (3 male, one female) gunned down and killed in a targetted attack in a Parkland WA coffee shop this morning

...

I called the Lakewood Police Department.

Nothing online has been set up yet for donations, but will be soon.

They do have an address one can send donation checks to:

L.P.I.G. Benevolent Fund
P.O. Box 99579
Lakewood WA, 98499

Make checks to: L.P.I.G. Benevolent Fund

(L.P.I.G. = Lakewood Police Independent Guild)

Jesus, that acronym.

And it turns out the current suspect had a sentence commuted by then Gov Huckabee. (in fairness, the suspect had been arrested then released in Tacoma since)

But...uh, I believe that Huckabee commuted his sentence for RAPING A CHILD? at least that's what i can make out of these news articles.

Huckabee '12

naw it was just robbery huck pardoned him for - suspect is currently free on bail pending his child rape trial in washington xp

WE HAVE TO START THIS MEME PLS SHUT UP WITH THE FACTS

another fucking spree shooting. greeeeeat. *rolls eyes*

Jimmy, no meme needed. Huck 2012 is killed dead. Especially when Mittens is taking notes

Btw, the suspect is now surrounded in south Seattle in Leschi neighborhood.

oh americapaws :(

http://www.komonews.com/news/content/scanner

this is the Seattle Police scanner link... not everything is regarding Maurice Clemmons the suspect but much of it is. Not sure if this will work for you. This thing will go all night PST, so those of you in Europeland or even Eastcoastland may hear of resolution before us west coasters do.

Clemmons was not found at Leschi home. He might be hiding in the U District area, last reported.

Clemmons was shot at the scene of the crime, so he's been bleeding since, and he might be dead.

No ones for sure yet.

http://www.jamiedole.com/gifs/EyeRoll.gif

wonder whats on his ipod

end of a joke there

surprised this wasn't posted yet. some cop totally blew him away last night/this morning.

I think everyone is too busy worrying about Tiger Woods to follow the details of this incident.

Admittedly, I was xtra relieved to read Detective Troyer's little slam on Huckabee in his statement about Clemmon's death (apparently Huckabee commuted a 95-year sentence because Clemmons "found Jesus"(?).. not from Troyer, I should note... also now I know to use my Huckabee Jesus lifeline should I become criminally insane)

(should be noted that Clemmons claimed to BE Jesus Christ once, so really he "found himself")

"I'd like to use a lifeline; call a friend"
"Great! Who will you be calling?"
"HUCKABEE JESUS"

so this happened while i was visiting knoxville this week in advance of a move:

An Inskip Elementary School teacher was charged this afternoon with two counts of attempted first-degree murder in the shootings of the school's principal and assistant principal.

and yesterday a little farther south:

Three faculty members at the University of Alabama in Huntsville were shot to death, and three other people were seriously wounded at a biology faculty meeting on Friday afternoon, university officials said. The Associated Press reported that a biology professor, identified as Amy Bishop, was charged with murder.

similar cases: the teacher found out his contract wasn't being renewed, the professor found out she was denied tenure.

i'm sure the normal gun-nut chorus will start up: just goes to show, you need everybody to be armed...

rolling disgruntled shootings thread 2010

Olson would not elaborate on the injury or release the guy's name.

Can't believe a professional journalist would use the word "guy", and that the editorial staff didn't catch it and substitute, oh I dunno, "man". Can't wait till 10 years from now when words like "wtf" and "lol" begin to appear in the headline.

Not a shooting spree yet but the BBC are hovering over the village where Moat is (allegedly).

Police are handling this in a pretty melodramatic manner wrt their 'direct messages' to Moat- would be very interested thoughts on that Ned?

They got a split screen with one showing the news conference where they are asking the media not to fly over the village and in the other screen live pictures from over the village.

jesus

Reading Moat's letter...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/06/extracts-raoul-moat-letter-police
...I don't think he's in any mood to give up.

xp

Great advert for the overuse of steroids this guy

Bizarre thing - this morning the police said he had 2 hostages and now those 'hostages' have been arrested for 'conspiracy to commit murder'.

Beeb now talking to man in shop in village. They are so determined to get some action on this after missing out on the Cumbrian one.

Last night I called 999 and declared war on Northumbria police before shooting an officer on the West End A69 roundabout in his T5. Sitting there waiting to bully someone. Probably a single mum who couldn't afford her car tax.

Rang again and told them they're gonna pay for what they've done to me and Sam. I went straight but they couldn't let it go.

The public need not fear me but the police should as I won't stop till I'm dead.

On the night 3/7/10 I shot Chris Brown and Samantha Stobbart, after an argument earlier that evening, and here I will make all the facts clear so there is no misunderstanding.

They took it all from me, kids, freedom, house, then Sam and Chanel. Where could I go from there? Obviously I have issues but I was pushed. I never beat my kids. I could simply admit to anything now cos it doesn't matter.

I'm a killer and a maniac but I ain't no coward.

I was terrified of losing Sam, as I knew I'd lose the plot and that, and not wanted to do so stopped me from ever beating her and anyone saying otherwise can go on a lie detector.
Now I've realised Sam is really hurt I am gutted. I never meant that.

Moat then threatens to target hospital staff if they fail to save his ex-girlfriend.

Those doctors better save her or I'll hit that hospital. I still love her despite everything but my head is a mess right now and I know I'm too far gone to make much sense of it.

I guess I've finally lost it. I'm not on the run, I will keep killing police until I am dead.

They've hunted me for years, now it's my turn.

I am very sorry about Sam and wish I hadn't shot at her. Just make sure she stays alive.

I never cheated on her, I wish she hadn't on me. She pulled the trigger by doing so just as much as me.

Bloke in shop just said "normally you only see this on tv or news programme".

Probably a single mum who couldn't afford her car tax.

Desperate attempt to get Littlejohn's job.

when the cumbria killings happened one news meme was "sleepy cumbrian countryside where this sort of thing never happens", as if elsewhere gunmen shooting at people at random was par for the course.

It is in Hackney, according to another news meme

xp
That is EXACTLY the line on the beeb right now. That and "...the net is closing".

They are now explaining what "the net is closing" means...

...but what if he slips through the net?

Mesh issues, what you need there isn't police it's trawlermen, maybe a cross-organisational alliance?

i know i shouldn't really laugh, but ned's net gag just made me giggle somewhat.

His Facebook messages:

Friday 11.21am Just got out the slammer to a totally fucked life.

11.32am Lost my business. Kids to s services. Gonna lose my home and lost my mrs of nearly 6 years to a copper. Like they havent fucked my life enough over the years.

11.37am Well she aint the lassy I thought she was. Cant win the kids, as police have fucked me over there too.

11.44am Mate this ones a hard knock. Its that whole rebuilding life from scratch thing. Iaint 21 anymore.

11.54am Fucking strange how someone youve spent so long and treasured can turn on you like a pitbull. If Id fucked of with someone else id feel pretty shitty and definately twist the knife etc this ones a double hard knock.

12.22pm yea when its over its all a pile of chaos. How did a guy who had it all end up in this situation.

12.30pm Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, so if a lass can really love you and treat you right, then they can also swing the complete oppposite way eventually.

I ain't no coward.

http://auer83.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/o_rly1.jpg

^ he'll be writing a 49 page letter about how I ruined his life next

I ain't noel coward

http://halfhearteddude.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/noel_coward.jpg
"o rly"

Mad Dogs and Englishmen

so this guy shows up at a mate's house, police question the mate for hours the next day... then the guy shows up at mate's house AGAIN and no policeman is keeping an eye out????? christ

Not exactly covering themselves in glory here, the Northumbrian police

Odd, because usually when one of their own is involved, police efficiency rates miraculously improve exponentially

well yes let's not lose sight of the real villains here, the police.

^daraoulmoat

Oh blah blah blah but those inefficient fuckers are supposed to be protecting us (xp)

yeah but protecting ye from psycho gunmen on the run, it's not exactly sheepherding either.

altho as i said the melodrama of the public statements is a bit 'it's my chance to shine, ma'

Suddenly realised I've been to Rothbury very recently when I went to Cragside. If he can get there, mingle with the NT visitors, have a nice cream tea, that'll probably calm him down no end.

not blaming the police for anything.. and i guess it is easy to be all 20/20 hindsight and pile on any mistakes but seriously.. i'd imagine posting a set of eyes at the mate's house would be standard practice. no doubt it's a fucking weird feeling to be a policeman up there right now though, knowing you're this guy's explicit target!

well yeah that's not great stuff from the lads, they won't be happy when they see that later, as mick mccarthy would probably put it

Details emerged yesterday of a 49-page letter, dated 4 July, that Moat had written to police.

pretty sure 49 pages is a record for this kind of work, good going Newcastle

And they say the art of writing letters is dead

Dear Fascist bully boy...

Love the way Sky keep calling him a "quiet family man".

I never cheated on her, I wish she hadn't on me. She pulled the trigger by doing so just as much as me.

aaaaaagh, I wish serious harm on this fuck and a long, long life in prison.

oh, cosigned and i'm pretty sure that goes without saying WmC, but i'm also sure that any number of psycho profiles could claim this guy as a poster boy too.

49 pages in the same rambling incoherent waahburger style thrown together above is pretty managable imo, btw

Should send Douglas Hogg up there to clean him up.

Gonna lose my home and lost my mrs of nearly 6 years to a copper.

i know this is a mostly irrelevant detail to get hung up on, but isn't she 22 years old?

i lost my mrs of nearly 6 yrs to a biker, must shoot me a few on the way home iirc.

i know this is a mostly irrelevant detail to get hung up on, but isn't she 22 years old?

― c sharp major, Tuesday, July 6, 2010 3:54 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

you can marry at 16 iirc

TOTALLY LEGIT

Indeed, how dare you impugn the morality of this Quiet Family Man

they're not even married n e way, but yeah they hooked up when she was 16, he was 31. kind of shit that bouncers do imo.

Guy in our basement flat was a bouncer. At 18. Took steroids. Reinvented as tarmac dude / builder. Now reinvented as web guru. Mother is knight of the realm. Married at 22. 1 kid and another on the way. Incident pre-marriage in which now-wife assualted him in the street, spitting, swearing, speaking in tongues, scratching face etc etc. I called police, she ended up being taken away in ambulance, escaping, street fight, more police, 2am, fun fun fun.

is that why you moved to the country?

I live in the city. The city of Exeter. Actually they've moved (5 miles) to the country now, and are renting their flat out.

New basement neighbour rental woman is airline accountant. Minor beard. Overweight. Leaves house little.

What was this Moat fellow banged up for in the first place?

hitting his 9mo old kid

"Quiet family man"

Kept his kid quiet.

Neighbours in Fenham, Newcastle, where he lived in a large, semi-detached house said they knew him as "bully boy" because of his menacing appearance. One said she once found one of his daughters by a bus stop wearing a nightdress in the pouring winter rain. She was crying and wearing a bib upon which were written the words: "I've been cheeky to my Daddy."

"It was a nasty incident," the neighbour said. "She must have been only three or four and was absolutely frozen."

Still he's no coward, a three-year old girl holds no fear for him

Mother is knight of the realm.

is this some bizarre code? Am hugely intrigued.

hitting his 9mo old kid

ok wtf hang this dude srsly

she once found one of his daughters by a bus stop wearing a nightdress in the pouring winter rain. She was crying and wearing a bib upon which were written the words: "I've been cheeky to my Daddy."

"It was a nasty incident," the neighbour said. "She must have been only three or four and was absolutely frozen."

fuck. i can't think of anything horrible enough to do to this guy. fuck.

let he who is without sin cast the first stone &c

hitting his 9mo old kid

ok wtf hang this dude srsly

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, 6 July 2010 16:27 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry should have been 9-year-old, not that it makes him much better when we're already talking about a murderer

wtf

hitting his 9 yo kid to the extent where he served jail time must have been pretty fuckin grim, you'd assume?

let he who is without sin cast the first stone &c

I know, I know, the mob mentality and all that, but I'm quite happy to lie about being without sin in order to allow everyone else to stone this dude to death.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100706060943AAyXQA5

mob mentality and all that

Uh, well you said it

i know it sounds sanctimonious, and this guy has whatever coming to him, but, well, you know.

LOL (xxp)

where is info about his conviction? guardian says 'short sentence for what police describe as a "low-level assault" on a relative'.

Darraghmac passim on ILX- yeah, some people have got mobs coming to them. I'm not completely reformed/brainwashed by youse soft lefty walkovers yet you know.

It's Maggie Thatcher For Me!!

lawl epic username

xpost

google raoul moat "nine-year-old" etc

guess it's prejudicial to report it?

police describe as a "low-level assault" on a relative'.

9 year olds are quite short

have to laugh else etc etc

guardian says 'short sentence for what police describe as a "low-level assault" on a relative'

classic guardian. it's not that easy to get put away y'know! for like five months. people have done worse things to younger kids and not had so much as a caution amirite.

info on the assault is from the daily mail. bleeding heart liberals at the graun probably squeamish about identitifying the kid as the victim of crime but the stobbart family are talking to papers so i assume it's reliable.

In the police letter, a copy of which was sent to the Sun newspaper, Moat made it clear that he blamed the force for his spell in prison for beating his nine-year-old daughter. While he was in Durham Jail, Miss Stobbart announced their relationship was over.

Guessing this guy might have, in the vernacular, "previous"

probably only a slipper in the arse, this man is a hero

'links to newcastle underworld' or so they say tom

xxp good instincts: "Police said today this was his only conviction but revealed he had been arrested 12 times and charged with seven separate offences."

probably only a slipper in the arse, this man is a hero

I don't know, I'd assume fitting an entire slipper into a child's ass would be very uncomfortable for the child

This whole thing is awful btw

'links to newcastle underworld' or so they say tom

― ,,,,,,eeeeleon (darraghmac), Tuesday, July 6, 2010 4:47 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

xxp good instincts: "Police said today this was his only conviction but revealed he had been arrested 12 times and charged with seven separate offences."

― joe, Tuesday, July 6, 2010 4:48 PM (21 seconds ago) Bookmark

he was a bouncer! both of these are p much par for the course even if you're not a roided-out hitter-of-children

They should send Ross Kemp in to interview him, no possible negative outcome imo.

She's 22 years old with a 9 year old kid?

Send for Danny Dyer. Come to think of it, maybe Danny Dyer gave this guy some relationship advice.

I doubt the 9 yr old is hers, but not impossible

She's 22 years old with a 9 year old kid?

― James Mitchell, Tuesday, July 6, 2010 4:50 PM (59 seconds ago) Bookmark

i think the kid must be from another lady. he only met the 22-y-o when she was 16, i.e. six years ago.

might have been 5 years ago, if she's had a recent birthday

we may never know

It's the North; it's possible.

Of course, in the West Country it'd be his 16yo cousin

In the West Country they wouldn't know how old she was or quite how they were related.

"Ah done seen her round for quite a time."

Raoul Moat.

Funny name.

Don't be ridiculous. He'd never have been able to get hold of a gun in the West Country.

Hahahahahahaha

Funny true or funny the west country is full of weaponry?

You've seen Farmer Palmer?

Is that from the makers of Postman Pat?

Fucking full of guns, kid.

Farmers, inbreds, German IT works; all loaded with rifles.

I believe they have a few farmers in Ireland

Now I know

Our farmers don't have guns, they have accountants.

They still haven't found this guy... and he's a right big bugger too

Raoul Moat.

Funny name.

crazy name, crazy guy???!!!???!

If you've seen pics of this dude, Tracer, I doubt you'd have any notions of him having being bullied over having a soft name as a child or anything.

it's not a soft name

it's just that he doesn't look like a raoul is all

fuck now i'm on the internet calling his name soft

RIP darraghmac

I don't think he's going to make it to Ireland.

Ryanair staff not going to turn down 20 quid of a fare under any circumstances- they're more afraid of o'leary

Am I a Very Bad Person for laughing at all y'all's posts today?

xp Dermot O'Leary?

No, David O'Leary. Never went easy with the halftime hairdryer.

A terrible man

oh, football...

Taking no chances.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/06/article-1292320-0A579319000005DC-137_634x376.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/06/article-1292320-0A579319000005DC-137_634x376.jpg

Broken Britain - now even fisherman need armed guards.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/06/article-1292320-0A572F90000005DC-435_634x383.jpg

in my day we just clubbed the fish over the head to kill them.

jesus christ. does that guy really have his gun pointed at those women? that's what it looks like.

he really does, action leg stance and everything. wt? unless they've gone through a checkpoint without stopping that's ridiculous

think he is actually aiming at the boot that his pal has just opened hoping raoul moat is inside hiding

think he's using his scope to check out the cougars in the front

Give the guy a break, he won't get much chance to do all this Action Man stuff, stuck up in Northumberland

Oh dear. Proof that spoof news sites are getting increasingly unfunny, if nothing else.

how embarassing

He's been in a tent!

"The tent was recovered in a very secluded, rural area which is difficult to describe."

"The shattering namelessness of the unknown, the horrible, faceless void of rural Northumberland"

^ Northumberland Tourist Board really has to up its game there

LOL

I've booked a holiday in Northumberland in August. Do you think I can get a discount if he's still at large?

ha ha ha.
if they already have your money, good luck.

Beeb now talking to man in shop in village. They are so determined to get some action on this after missing out on the Cumbrian one.

Oh man, just watched about an hour of Skynews on this - or rather it was playing in the background - and it's beyond parody. They are not reporting on any other news in anything other than passing comments, and there are more Sky staff up there than Northumbrian police, and you know they are all desperate for this Moat character to go out, all guns blazing, in a spectacular bloodbath. But there's actually next to no news to report, so Kay Burley is walking around looking for locals to put the willies up - at one point she actually said, with her usual tact and understatement, "We're here to see how the locals are coping with having a madman on the loose". Various other reporters meanwhile, are wandering aimlessly around various disused farm buildings and outhouses and there are so many helicopters in the air it's like 'Nam. Ideal scenario is for Moat to turn up 500 miles away from any Sky News reporter and hand himself meekly in - perhaps to the commissionaires at BBC Television Centre.

Yep, media coverage has been amazing. "Dog there, not sure if it's a police dog or one of the locals, probably one of the park managers' in fact.'

'We can see two anglers there - walking along almost as if nothing was happening. Maybe they'll help the police with their enquiries"

Tom D correct - more Sky news staff up there than in the studio. Fuck it, this is their X-Factor.

Handy cut out and keep guide to "pyscho commando".
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01081/SNN0804GX3-280_1081387a.jpg

Nice bit of photoshop there, though.

Scary fucker as a baby, too:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/07/07/article-1292867-0A5AFE94000005DC-277_233x423.jpg

All he really needs to do to evade the police is sit about, watch Sky News, and go wherever they aren't.

haaa

Can't help feeling that growing up in the North East with a name like Raoul and having ginger hair at the same time must be contributory factors

Mr Stobbart said: "Raoul, son, please this has to stop. We don't want anyone else hurt, nee more son."

Given that he hasn't actually shot anyone for several days despite threatening to, or indeed been seen anywhere, I suspect he will be found somewhere remote having killed himself.

... rather than face Kay Burley

xp Would guess this is why the helicopters fitted with heat-sensing cameras aren't finding him.

Sky have helicopters fitted with heat-sensing cameras?

Maybe he got eaten by urban foxes

Given that he hasn't actually shot anyone for several days despite threatening to, or indeed been seen anywhere, I suspect he will be found somewhere remote having killed himself.

Yeah this thought suddenly occurred to me last night.

He's gone to a lot of effort just to kill himself. I guess it depends on what happens when the 'roids wear off (if and when they do, I have no idea how these things work). More likely drink some dodgy water and get sick. This talk of him being a survival expert seems like macho bs. He's already had a larg-ish fire (luckily for him not spotted by the police but still seen by a farmer "billowing" smoke) and lost his tent. I am confident this will all be over by the end of the w/end one way or another (and I'm not just sayin that because I've paid a not inconsiderable amount for a holiday in the area obviously).

xps - ha! heat seeking helicoptors and they still didn't see the fire?

http://www.midfielddynamo.com/images/people/england/viz_bacondad_100x120.png

Mr Stobbart said: "Raoul, son, please this has to stop. We don't want anyone else hurt, nee more son."

on the bbc site now, stating that police say that Moat is now a danger to the public. i can't decide whether this statement is a good or bad idea.

meanwhile..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10552410.stm

xp

The best thing about that police statement was the way they refused to elaborate. Just left it at that.

"...and on that bombshell."

They've closed Cragside now, shit just got real.

I was looking at an article about Mr Moat just now where it said he was suspected of scrumping for tomatoes. As an American, the verb was unknown to me so I went to dictionary.com to look it up.

Slang Dictionary

scrump definition
(skrəmp)

tv. & in.
to copulate (with) someone. (Usually objectionable.) : The movie showed a scene of some woman scrumping her lover.

I thought, I've heard of bobbing for apples but scrumping for tomatoes?! I love tomatoes as much as the next guy but those had better be some really amazing tomatoes. Also, 'usually objectionable'??!!

Then I googled it...

which bbc radio station is the best for listening to local coverage?

Seems like BBC Cumbria is covering it now.

theyve found him, he is holding a gun to his head, police are negotiating with him.

"PLEASE...GO AHEAD...AND...SHOOT"

Sky really need a copy of drudgesiren.gif to put up on screen at times like these.

for people not in the UK, this link is live bbc news coverage

http://atdhe.net/watch-bbc-news.php

unbelievable. 24 rolling news cycles have hit their lowest ebb.

Sky News current source for this info: some lassie talking on the phone to her mum who's watching it happen. Presumably mum would rather be using her phone to film it to whack up on YouTube.

BBC not quite so OMG DRAMA. Yet.

BBC stomping all over Sky; Sopel swiped our Paula's phone and started quizzing her mam, live from Auntie Dot's.

Paula live on sky: "Those guys have got my mobile!"

Awes. I need two tellies for this.

this is the most retarded shit ever

You just have to Raoul w/it

I loved the BBC reporter just now:
(excitedly) "Oh there's a police van coming through!!!"
<van passes, it has "DOG SECTION" on the back>
(disappointedly) "Oh..."

holy fuck. twittards have been asking where the sky copter is at.

so the news anchor says, well, there's an air exclusion zone: if he had a tv [OR A PHONE] he would be able to work out where the police were.

but they've been showing umpteen shots of the police's positions and giving all kinds of potentially information out.

anchor, more like wanker.

Surely he knows where the police are because they're ALL AROUND HIM POINTING GUNS AT HIM.

isn't he holding a gun to his own head? what's the point of aiming a gun at someone doing such a thing?!

In case they point the gun at someone else?

They're ready to kill him if he doesn't surrender, Thermo. They're trying to negotiate his surrender.