The Hitchcock Poll

vertigo>psyco>rear window>north by nortwest>birds>shadow of a doubt>39 steps>strangers on a train> a man who knew too much(1956)>the rest.
or something.

It's hard, because he made so many different KINDS of movies. Rear Window is my favorite, because it seems in the middle, both production-wise and ideology-wise, of the big Hollywood movies and the clever-clever low art.

Psycho is easily the best "b-movie" of all time.

Dun think I seen anything b'fore Rope.

Film Threat to thread, tho.

vertigo is not his "perfect" movie, it's too long, but it's his deepest,richest, and timeless, imo.

39 Steps, but it could have been Rear Window, The Wrong Man, Strangers on a Train or Vertigo.

Rear Window > Vertigo > Notorious > 39 Steps > Psycho > Rope > Strangers on a Train > I don't care to rank much else

xpost

Voted pragmatically and went with Rear Window, though it kills me to not vote for Vertigo, The Wrong Man, The Lady Vanishes, the two Tippi Hedren ones, et al.

I have never seen The Wrong Man. I will.

It's great, dour and with surprising gravitas. That and I Confess.

ok, about The Birds... dumb monster movie or great monster movie?

dumb in the mute sense, yeah

great in every other sense

The Birds is great!

xpost

no, I thin kit's great, too, II guess I'm wondering if it's dumb just because it is, essentially, a monster movie. And Hitch does not reforn the genre, he adheres to it nicely.

i once did a work during my studies about the story-board as used in "shadow of doubt": hitch new how to get into details i tell you.

hitch shot from his storyboards and nothing else, if you believe the stories.

Strangers On A Train, which has his least ridiculous plot, a couple of good supporting performances (by Ms. Hitchcock and Ruth Roman), homo overtones, and a crackling script.

and he knew perfectly how the scene would go before the actual shooting, all was in his head, if you believe the stories

OH GOD I MISSED Notorious! Can I retract??

Also: can anyone tell me if the seventies films are worth the trouble?

frenzy is great,one of his best really, family plot havent seen though heard not such good thing

x2 yes

Yeah, Family Plot is totally fun. I haven't forced myself to watch Topaz yet, tho.

... which isn't in this poll, unsurprisingly

I feel like waiting until Redacted comes out to to my inevitable Brian De Palma poll.

Strangers On A Train, which has his least ridiculous plot

That's not true. All his plots are "ridiculous."

But "crackling" is a good word for the dialogue, for sure.

'Strangers...'

god it rocks so hard.

All plots are ridiculous.

The thing about Strangers is that it might be his MOST ridiculous movie... the end scene of the merry go round? Come on, that's just silliness. But it's great.

But Strangers... does the wrong-man anxiety with greater ease than North By Northwest and, er, The Wrong Man (or earlier films like Foreign Correspondent and The 39 Steps). By tapping into the horror of the most banal circumstance -- how talking to a creepy stranger who buys you an expensive lunch and won't leave you alone -- he comes closest to defining what life must be like in a police-state.

like douglas sirk, he worked in hollywood most of the the time, so he had to fit to the genres rules, but he liked it probably, and it made his films as great and popular as they are.

*talking to a creepy stranger who buys you an expensive lunch and won't leave you alone can lead to the most absurd mix-up.

*and is gay

i voted for notorious (=most perfect hollywood movie ever), but vertigo is the best.

too many defensible candidates to make a rational choice, so i went with most fun. (i.e. north by northwest)

(strangers on a train and vertigo are probably the MOST defensible, but really there's an embarrassment of options.)

i voted for notorious (=most perfect hollywood movie ever), but vertigo is the best.

this is correct!

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The Birds is actually ABOUT THE HUMAN CHARACTERS, shhhhhh

Too hard. My brain is exploding.

nbnw

I wonder if anyone alive has seen The Pleasure Garden.

It's great, dour and with surprising gravitas.

Hm. The Wrong Man I found pretty good, certainly dour, and with a disappointing ending title card. Not that I wish harm on the woman, but that card took the air out of the scene before it. But it was very pretty and had Henry Fonda.

The end card is the most obvious Studio Imposition ever, and so I just pretend it isn't there.

(oh - maybe 2d most-obv to the framing scenes of Siegel's Invasion of the Body Snatchers)

Strangers On A Train for me. The first Hitchcock film I ever saw and still my favourite.

I saw Torn Curtain one afternoon years ago, I think I was home from school "ill". I remember being surprised at how violent it was. For a film on at 2 in the afternoon, anyway.

Dr Morbius - what are your favorites?

birds foreva

rope and vertigo are my favorites

Too many to name, but I make a habit of Vertigo, Rear Window, Shadow of a Doubt, Notorious, Frenzy, Psycho, North by Northwest, the second Man Who Knew Too Much, Birds, Marnie, 39 Steps, Lady Vanishes, Sabotage, Foreign Correspondent. (Few duds aside from Topaz and Torn Curtain.)

and let's not forget "Lamb to the Slaughter."

Wow. I totally managed to block that card. Doesn't really change my view on Hitch's filmmaking control, but ... yeah.

and let's not forget "Lamb to the Slaughter."

Or "One More Mile To Go" (aka "Test Run For First Reel Of Psycho")

"39 Steps". I think. Far too difficult to choose tho.

(Few duds aside from Topaz and Torn Curtain.)

mr. and mrs. smith also

I liked Torn Curtain. The bus! Topaz was a bit of a flop. I don't think I've seen anything before 39 Steps.

Oooh watch Blackmail and the original The Man Who Knew Too Much. Both are quite qorthwhile.

Yeah, those seem to be the two that everyone mentions. I will when I can! What about all the others, though?

Oh, and The Lodger I hear talk about. The others, never.

the late sixties films are pretty grim.

Most underrated Hitch: Foreign Correspondent (I'll give you one guess as to why I love it).

the late sixties films are one film

Topaz (... and Torn Curtain)

Frenzy is great though. Pity Family Plot is such junk.

suspicion is the most underrated one.

ok that's very strange. I left out Topaz from the list. Totally my bad, sorry poll. If someone was actually going to vote for it, we can void the poll. :(

Because otherwise, you know, this poll would be official and go on our permanent record.

Family Plot is fun! if you like Barbara Harris.

I like Barbara Harris

I voted for Rope.

Family Plot is fun! if you like Barbara Harris.

Don't forget Bruce Dern!

For my money, it's Family Plot, not Frenzy, that is the best of his pretty awkward final stretch.

Perhaps this is the time to once again ask this question.

Years ago, I read/heard someone relate the following (paraphrased) anecdote:

"I was in the street with Hitchcock one day when a beautiful, well-dressed young woman walked by. After she passed, he turned to me and whispered: 'Wouldn't you just love to smear shit in her face?'"

I think it was told to illustrate something of Hitchcock's approach to his film's leading ladies.

I have never been able to find any subsequent confirmation of this story, though I have just remembered that it prompted a thread of mine on ILM.

"Actors should be treated like cattle. Women should be treated like toilets."

enough with the scurrilous hearsay, off to Cabin #1 with you

Rear Window.

But I agree Vertigo is probably his "best" movie.

really interested to see how this turns out.

It will get about 12 votes total, like every other ILX poll.

this is toooooooooooooooooooooo fucking hard, esp. since with a lot of the later stuff I've only got my middle school memories to rely on (the Criterion stuff is what I've seen more recently).

also, WOAH, I had no idea Strangers On A Train came after Rope.

I'm stuck between North By Northwest, Strangers On A Train, Rebecca and Shadow Of A Doubt.

[/i]It will get about 12 votes total, like every other ILX poll.[/i]

You get the idea.

The problem with Hitchcock: Joel McCrea wasn't in enough of the early American ones, and Thelma Ritter wasn't in enough of the later ones.

Leo G. Carroll was in about 7 though, right?

like douglas sirk, he worked in hollywood most of the the time, so he had to fit to the genres rules, but he liked it probably, and it made his films as great and popular as they are.

-- Zeno, Tuesday, September 4, 2007 3:48 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

'cept for the 20-odd films he made in england...

You mean Hollywood East?

Oooh watch Blackmail and the original The Man Who Knew Too Much. Both are quite qorthwhile.

-- Alex in SF, Thursday, September 6, 2007 4:21 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Yeah, those seem to be the two that everyone mentions. I will when I can! What about all the others, though?

-- Alba, Thursday, September 6, 2007 4:23 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Oh, and The Lodger I hear talk about. The others, never.

-- Alba, Thursday, September 6, 2007 4:24 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

'rich and strange' is the conoisseur's choice.

the other '30s thrillers are good too.

the pre-'man who knew too much' ones get slept on. but even in america, until the early '60s, everyone preferred the british ones to the flabby hollywood ones. the turn-around came when the publicity budget for 'the birds' was used to pay for a full MOMA retrospective and peter bogdanovich's book.

but even rohmer and chabrol liked the english ones -- they liked 'the ring' and 'the manxman' especially.

stunned to recently learn he never won a Best Director Oscar

I wonder if anyone alive has seen The Pleasure Garden.

-- Alba, Thursday, September 6, 2007 3:20 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

i'm fairly convinced it was never released, just trade-shown, in britain. though i have a feeling it was shown in germany. pretty unlikely all the same.

xp

why stunned? The thriller was not judged to be 'art' by Academy standards, at least not til Demme/Lecter, and Rebecca was considered Selznick's picture (esp since it was AH's first).

When they gave him an honorary Oscar he said "Thank you" and walked off.

Selznick's name on Rebecca's credits are bigger than Hitch's.

Sabotage, based on Conrad's Secret Agent (not to be confused with, er, Hitch's Secret Agent), is my favorite of the Brits.

"stunned" may be too strong, obviously the academy doesn't have a track record of rewarding quality or innovation or being massively influential ... I guess that given his prodigious output, mainstream success, and general omnipresence in the film world (altho maybe I only see this omnipresence in retrospect) I had just expected that he would've won at least once

The four nominated for Best Picture were Rebecca (the only one to win), Suspicion, Foreign Correspondent, and Spellbound.

And he did get four Best Director nods.

as i recall, orson welles was among those who said "early hitch yay, later (hollywood) hitch nay."

Welles also said, "Hitch has said he doesn't much like actors; watching his films you just don't think he likes people very muc."

As a sign of his cosmospolitan art-house cred, The Lady Vanishes won Best Director at the New York Film Critics Awards that year.

Welles also said, "Hitch has said he doesn't much like actors; watching his films you just don't think he likes people very much."

Which is a strength.

how so

Cold dead glare of camera eye aesthetically preferable to vaseline-smeared faux empathy or something.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

A one-two I can definately live with.

I'm really glad The Trouble With Harry got a vote. It's always been a bit unfairly maligned, I've felt, and it's probably Hitchcock's most "fun" movie. Well, North By Northwest is also a great deal of fun.

This is a false binary opposition. Can you accuse Jean Renoir or Satyajit Ray of vaseline-smeared empathy?

I didn't really mean it, I was just glibly responding to Shakey Mo's glib questioning of my glib response to Welles' glib criticism,

I mean, what I like most about lots of Hitchcock movies is the (allegedly atypical) warmth of his depiction of everyday life; Sabotage and the 2nd Man Who Knew Too Much especially.

I voted for Psycho, but I wish I had it to do over again. I would have voted for Rear Window.

as i recall, orson welles was among those who said "early hitch yay, later (hollywood) hitch nay."

I want to believe this is a direct quote.

wow i really must see NOTORIOUS then.

i'm surprised at the strong showing for STRANGERS... but *god* what a movie.

wow i really must see NOTORIOUS then.

Yep, pretty much.

The most surprising in the top 10 for me is Rope.

Notorious might be my favorite movie ever. Ingrid Bergman is so so so amazing in it.

It's one of the few Hollywood films of the period -- or ever -- to understand sex and what men expect from women who enjoy it as much as they do.

On the other hand, Rope is shit.

what men expect from women who enjoy it as much as they do

disavowal?

marriage or whoredom; it's all the same in Cary Grant's eyes.

what? rope is pretty overrated but it's a decent film, nothing at all wrong with it. xx-post

i like strangers on a train but the way hitch films that murder scene creeps me the fuck out.

We have to accept Hume Cronyn's approximation of New York cocktail party chatter and Jimmy Stewart as a philosophy professor, both of which are, admittedly, funny in lots of ways.

I think Rope is really good up until the final self-righteous Jimmy Stewart speech. but maybe that's a joke on his character?

yeah ROPE has aged badly i think but i loved it when i was a kid.

Top five are absolutely great (masterpieces, even)! Voted for the winner myself. Surprised that Psycho didn't do better.

Sadly, lots of great ones received zero votes.

I wish I'd voted for Rebecca now, don't think I got around to picking one.

Jimmy Stewart as a NIETZCHEAN philosophy professor takes the cake. Rope is overrated? Isn't it universally regarded as an interesting failure? I mean, Farley Granger is hot as hell, but he and John Dall are both quite terrible.

(Having to pick ONE film doesn't reflect rejection of all the others, for fuck's sake)

As for early vs late, Sabotage is the only British one that has the depth of the better Hollywood films (39 Steps and Lady Vanishes are 'just' near-perfect confections). He had it (relatively) right in telling Truffaut that he was "a talented amateur" in the '30s.

hitchcock said a *lot* of things, and was always conscious of his audience. he knew that truffaut preferred the american ones by the time of that interview (1962). at their earlier meetings he had said all of his american films were bad; that was what critics wanted to hear.

he was not a talented amateur in the '30s. he had been fussed over since his third movie, in '26; he was probably the highest paid director in europe when he made the (contentious but...) first british sound feature in 1929, in a studio that wasn't so far off hollywood levels of lavishness.

i don't think '39 steps' is any more or less shallow than the majority of his american output. none of the british films come up to 'rear window', but they do have other things to recommend them over technical accomplishment.

nrq OTM, and i'd rate "39 steps" in particular with hitch's v. best.

the '50s "man who knew too much" is better than the '30s one but there's something to be said for the earlier film's much stronger sense of vivid threat (and as i recall it's a much more violent film than the later one).

nrq OTM, and i'd rate "39 steps" in particular with hitch's v. best

Agreed. It would make my top ten Hitchcock (wonderful small performance by Peggy Ashcroft as lonely bitter wife is one of my favorites).

Is there a better thread in which to discuss Vertigo? Watched it last night (working my way through a box set) and was really disappointed. I guess, by the result above, that's about to earn me a pillorying.

I'm not a huge Vertigo fan either. I admire it, in a detached way, but would much rather watch at least four or five others from the list above--not to mention Citizen Kane, which Vertigo may finally overtake in 2012's Sight and Sound poll.

Ha, I was moaning about CK only a few weeks back in another thread.

It's not that I don't appreciate the classics (I think), because I've gone through Rear Window, Psycho, The Man Who Knew Too Much from Hitch alone in the past few weeks (lot of catching up to do, as you can see) and loved every one of them.

I'm not terribly fond of Vertigo either.

Citizen Kane, which Vertigo may finally overtake in 2012's Sight and Sound poll

Man, I am so popping a cork when that happens.

Here's how the gap's been closing since Kane's appearance on the '62 list (just the critics poll for the last two):

1962: Citizen Kane--1st (22 votes)/Vertigo--not listed
1972: Citizen Kane--1st (32 votes)/Vertigo--11th (8 votes)
1982: Citizen Kane--1st (45 votes)/Vertigo--7th (12 votes)
1992: Citizen Kane--1st (43 votes)/Vertigo--4th (18 votes)
2002: Citizen Kane--1st (46 votes)/Vertigo--2nd (41 votes)

It would seem inevitable that Vertigo takes over #1 next time, although there was such a dramatic spike last time, maybe that was something of an abberation and Kane's lead will stabilize. (The Godfather's coming up fast too.)

"aberration"...I cannot get through a single post on this board without a typo or a misspelling.

Any prospect of a left-field entrant, aside from those 3?

i'd have thought mis-spelling tbh btw

The Godfather's strong showing was a cheat. They combined the votes of the first two.

that's a bit...cheeky?

Starts @ 1:37. The Birds, you see, are actually the physical manifestation of Mitch's mother's jealousy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sFqfbrsZbw

I think he's definitely on to something.

I'm not a huge Vertigo fan either. I admire it, in a detached way

Did anyone else catch the irony of this?

I should have mentioned that about GF I/II...I'm an agnostic on that issue; I can see valid arguments for and against. I don't know if there's anything that might make an unexpected appearance in the Top 10 next time. Nothing that came out since the last poll, anyway--unlike the '72 poll, where 8-1/2, Persona, and L'avventura all appeared in the Top 10 within 15 years of release, it seems to take a while now. I think Raging Bull was the most recent film to show some movement last time.

i think 'rules of the game' absolutely deserves the top spot, but i suspect it's condemned to hover just under the contested top 2-3 forever and ever.

My dream would be for the order of the 2002 top 3 to be reversed.

(And for the Godfathers to be counted separately.)

wait why the hell don't people like Vertigo

I don't dislike Vertigo; I just find it a very cold film. I realize that those who love it find it very emotional.

Eric H.: Do you want the Godfathers separated because you think there's a significant difference in quality, or is that you just think counting them together is inherently unfair? For me, they're equally great--sometimes I prefer one, sometimes the other--and, largely because of Pacino, they come together in my mind as a single film. But I think the inherently-unfair argument is a valid one.

Any prospect of a left-field entrant, aside from those 3?

Ingl**rious B*st*rds, when Idiocracy comes true.

I don't dislike Vertigo; I just find it a very cold film.

You do realize that it's interpreted, biographically, as an intensely personal, passionate film by Hitchcock, and he was sufficiently hurt by the lukewarm commercial response that he never risked another of its type?

I understand totally how personal it was to Hitchcock; obviously he had an obsession with finding the perfect blonde, and I'm sure it was personal on many other levels I'm not aware of. I don't react to films through Hitchcock's (or any filmmaker's) eyes, though; I react to them through my own.

I actually think that evaluating Vertigo on how personal a film it was to Hitchcock is just about the weakest argument you can make for its greatness. I assume that the 41 people who named it as one of their 10 favourite films in 2002 had much more personal reasons than that.

but that doesn't make it cold, tho, even if it doesn't hit you on a gut level. xp

Among many things, I partic find Midge's last line moving: "I don't think Mozart's going to help."

I actually think that evaluating Vertigo on how personal a film it was to Hitchcock is just about the weakest argument you can make for its greatness

Exactly. I just don't find it as entertaining as Notorious, Strangers on a Train or Rear Window.

it hasn't got any lousy Ruth Roman like Strangers on a Train.

Soto, I thought you'd have gone for the groovy dressing-the-corpse necrophilia!

Well, it was really more that it was unplausible nonsense, which kept bringing me out of the movie. Performances were all great, it looked fantastic, the cahracters were all taking it very seriously, but... it was too silly, I guess? And, as I've said, that didn't bother me with Psycho or The Man Who Knew Too Much so it's not like I'm too easily thrown by a ropey plot.

Soto, I thought you'd have gone for the groovy dressing-the-corpse necrophilia!

I love the last half hour, but forty minutes of languorous shots of Stewart following Novak and anomic conversations and the corpse starts to stink.

Again (I think it's a distinction worth making), I didn't say it was cold; I said that I find it a cold film, and acknowledged that defenders feel very differently.

I'll give it credit for one thing: it's reputation grows as more and more people see it. When it was fairly high in the '72 and '82 polls, I think it was out of circulation at the time; I saw it for the first time in the early '80s, a pirate screening at a small rep, and I wondered if part of its stature was tied in with its inaccessibility. But since it was officially re-released sometime after the '82 poll, its standing has just grown and grown.

Wasn't RW also out of circulation?

Yeah--also The Trouble with Harry. I saw Rear Window at the same time (possibly even a double-bill); now that film I love, give or take a bit of stilted dialogue between Stewart and Kelly.

I watched RW with my mom this afternoon during my weekly visit -- I can watch it anytime.

RW is still probably one of my 3 favourite films ever - the thing's unstoppable.

One of my favorite shots ever: the close-up on Kelly wiggling the ring, followed by the camera gliding up to Raymond Burr, who shifts his gaze from the ring to Stewart.

Oops: spoiler alert.

or Wendell Corey, Kelly, and Stewart swirling brandy snifters in the evening light.

you know when a director reaches a zone where every single shot is immaculate? yeah that

midge is my favourite character in vertigo - dunno if that means I didn't get the film

it was really more that it was unplausible nonsense

ah, so you're one of 'The Plausibles' Hitchcock sniffed about! :)

forty minutes of languorous shots of Stewart following Novak and anomic conversations

love it all.

Those three '50s films you mentioned, plus Man Who Knew Too Much '56 and Rope, were held out of circulation by Hitchcock and his estate until they were re-released theatrically with great fanfare in '84. You can imagine how maddening how maddening it was coming of age as a Hitchcock fan in the late '70s not to have those films available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phmDP4LSz1Y

I wonder whether this accounts for Pauline Kael's silence. She had something to say on almost every Hitch film from the early thirties through The Wrong Man, then there's a gap between it and Psycho.

ah, so you're one of 'The Plausibles' Hitchcock sniffed about! :)

guilty, guilty. i'm certainly missing something, it seems.

any single frame of rear window would make a great poster.

I've definitely seen a Kael mini-review of North by Northwest

I was in the film program at the University of Toronto when I saw those pirate prints of Vertigo and Rear Window. (No idea how they got hold of them; it was a long-gone rep called the Nostalgic Cinema that seated about 50 people.) This was probably about '82. I have a clear memory of being really excited, and of raising my hand in one course to tell everyone that these two famous and impossible-to-see films would be showing at the Nostalgic. I expected to see virtually everyone from the class there--we were film students, right? Exactly one other guy showed up. Which may or may not say something about people who study film at universities.

I always assumed Kael's silence on Vertigo was disapproval; with only a small handful of exceptions, she didn't think much of Hitchcock's American films. (And even when she liked something, like North by Northwest, she could be very flippant.)

the Kael review of NxNwest was folded into her Cary Grant essay.

SPOILERS

In the long sequence in which Scottie trails "Madeleine," we are led to suspect some supernatural force — reincarnation, ghostly possession, perhaps — as motivating "Madeleine's" strange behavior. But the film disavows such forces by resolving the mystery with a rational explanation, grounding the story in the worldly realm where suspense more naturally results from the indeterminism of free will, as dramatized by Scottie's uncertain choices, rather than the possibility of some karmic comeuppance, irrelevant in its random nature. To fall back on fate after establishing the independence of freedom is a retreat.

is maybe a good explanation of how I felt the ending to be unsatisfactory- the nun popping up out of nowhere and Judy flinging herself out the window felt like an arbitrary cop-out right at the climactic resolution of both plotlines (Madeleine and Judy). Hitchcock all but promises us a reasonable explanation with his unveiling of the 'mystery' element midway through, only to pull the rug under us right at the death.

which might be fine next time i'm watching, but i sure as hell didn't appreciate it first time round. i'll get over it i'm sure.

Strangers On a Train is great, though it really shouldn't SPOILERS have a happy ending.

I wonder whether this accounts for Pauline Kael's silence.

Kael's North by Northwest blurb in 5001 Nights isn't flippant; I may have gotten it confused with her short Rio Bravo entry ("Silly, but with zest..."). I think the fact that there's no Psycho entry in 5001--no review by her in any collection, as I recall--supports the idea that Vertigo's omission is intentional. Obviously she saw Psycho, and I'm quite sure she would have seen Vertigo (and Rear Window) on initial release.

Eric H.: Do you want the Godfathers separated because you think there's a significant difference in quality, or is that you just think counting them together is inherently unfair? For me, they're equally great--sometimes I prefer one, sometimes the other--and, largely because of Pacino, they come together in my mind as a single film. But I think the inherently-unfair argument is a valid one.

If the two had been filmed simultaneously, it would maaaaybe be fair, but even then, not really. Say, for the sake of argument, I think the first one is one of the ten best movies of all time, but I am indifferent or worse to the second one, I sure as hell wouldn't want my vote helping the latter to ascend into the overall list of the top 10 (which it did -- I separated the votes back in '02 and the first one would've landed in slot #10 and the second was, I think, #12).

Strangers On a Train is great, though it really shouldn't SPOILERS have a happy ending.

It doesn't. Heterosexuality triumphs.

Does it? Granger's foxy enough for a lifetime of strangers on trains.

The haste with which he gets up with his woman suggests, if anything, he's forever locked that door and thrown away the key.

Anyway, can't believe anyone would call Vertigo cold after seeing Kim Novak finally acquiesce to pinning up her coif.

Novak acts like a man imitating a woman.

Never watched Rope til tonight. It's kind of boring.

The most curiously overrated Hitchcock movie.

Absolutely nobody in this film is subtle at all!

rope

Granger and Dall are fags, they hafta be over the top

Is Rope overrated? Most critics dismiss it as a curiosity at best.

don't think it's rated 'as such', but it's always going to be an interesting experiment -- so in other words, there's more to be said about it than, say a bunch of other hitchcocks

I'm a little surprised with Dial M garnering no votes...such a great little thriller. Maybe it suffered in a similar way to Psycho where it's someone's 2nd or 3rd favourite but not their first, so it slides in the final reckoning.

I also really need to see Notorious.

Dial M always seemed like a relative snooze after the scissors scene.

Yeah Eric, I only know of Robin Wood rating Rope highly, and that seems mostly bcz it made homosexuality clear to him.

I'm not talking critics, I'm talking casual watchers who get into Hitchcock. Most I've talked to invariably glom upon how much they loved Rope.

yeah the IMDB top 250, barometer of casual watchers/non-critic fans, has Rope on there.

had no idea. philistines are weird.

It was the first one I saw in high school, and I liked it because I believed then in auteurism. It's so obviously regarded as a directorial triumph that its merits are beside the point.

loved sabotage. only the kid on the bus should have been intercut w/ the guy being questioned at home watching the clock.

no-one's fave is The Lady Vanishes?! for shame.

I had never seen The Wrong Man before last night, not sure how that happened. Don't want to call it a dud, it's an interesting curio, but coming just before Vertigo it's certainly a minor film. I like the premise, but thought Henry Fonda's stoicism in the face of terrifying, Kafkaesque events was offputting and eventually kind of boring.

I think it's pretty major, but def not a very easy movie to love.

helps if you're Catholic imo (not that I love it)

Haven't seen it for years but I wdn't put it in the first rank of Hitch's work. It's no I Confess for example.

hmmm, I prefer it to I Confess. I could imagine Woody Allen loving it bcz despite the slapped-on epilogue card, it leaves you with that life-is-a-bitch-then-you-die feeling.

I like tangling with both Wrong Man and I Confess, even if they don't manage to negotiate Hitch's dark side with his showmanship as entertainingly as Vertigo.

Couple of good scenes in Dial M but yeah, not his best.

I like Fonda well enough but I like Monty Clift a lot more I guess

I Confess is as immobile as Clift's facial muscles.

It's meditative!

This has reminded me I've always wanted to see Le confessionnal, is it worth it?

I like the scene in the Fonda one where he takes the big escalator down to catch the subway back to Jackson Heights.

In retrospect, it was a little bit of a miscalculation to include I Confess in Slant's list of 100 essential movies.

really didn't love vertigo or rear window, i feel like i'm missing something? or maybe i'm just never going to be a hitchcock fan.

dial m for murder is prob the hitchcock i enjoyed the most. noticed that didn't get any votes here. i've seen about 1/3 of the ones in that list.

Dial M seems notable only for its relatively confining use of 3-D. In almost every other respect, it seems pretty stilted compared to Window or Train.

A contrarian, Crackle Box? Welcome to ILX!

I don't mind Dial M at all, very much enjoy it in fact. Not top Hitchcock, but mid-pack of the ones I've seen.

i don't care for 'wrong man' or 'dial m for murder' at all, really. though the first at least has a good opening and the second inspired troy mcclure's 'dial m for murderousness.'

'stage fright' is my favorite of that weird early '50s period.

Wasn't The Wrong Man one of Truffaut's favourites from the Hitchcock book? I watched it again about a year ago. It was credibly grim, but I doubt that I'll ever go back to it a third time.

Stagefright has some great Dietrich stuff, Such as when she is first fit in her widow's weeds and she says "don't you think you could make it ... plunge a little?"

This has reminded me I've always wanted to see Le confessionnal, is it worth it?

― aka best bum of the o_O's (Noodle Vague), Thursday, June 16, 2011 11:17 AM (11 hours ago) Bookmark

I liked it.

The first time I saw Marnie was when the podcast I co-host did a Mother's Day show wherein we got each of our moms to pick one of their favourite films, which we would then discuss. Marnie was my mom's choice. I was shocked at how strange and upsetting it was! (the other two picks: Badlands and Iris.)

A mom who'd pick Badlands is pretty unusual, to say the least.

total hipster family.

Shakey should have been on that show

The Wrong Man tonight, which I've never seen.

The Wrong Guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyXoM-62lX0

Dial M For Murder coming to Blu Ray *IN 3-D*!

http://www.dreadcentral.com/news/56709/hitchcocks-dial-m-murder-coming-blu-ray-3d-house-wax-next

Finally diving into this cheapo box set of British Hitchcock features... loved The Lady Vanishes.

rewatched Rope last week, i won't say it's underrated but i do think it's misunderstood, often.

I liked The Lady Vanishes a lot when I saw it three or four years ago for the first time. Struck me as superior to a few of his more acclaimed American films.

i think there was a cliche about his 30s Brit flicks being his best work but i think it's a reasonable case to make

Rope = dope.

I didn't know about the 15-movie Blu Ray set!

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/91tuY8UKEnL._AA1500_.jpg

a vote for the lodger! saw it today, pretty funny. killer had an oedipus map, then it turns out he's misunderstood and crucified on a fence. shots of murdered women, only their faces.... amazing to watch silent film do all of this. the father (arthur chesney) is amazing.

The Trouble With Harry is so good. Edmund Gwenn is so beautiful he makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time.

I saw it a few years back and it just didn't work for me. The sweet, idyllic setting and the dark comedy were such a jarring match that I don't think that the film ever found a proper tone. I dunno. One to revisit when I have the time, perhaps.

Showed Rear Window to a class last week, which was a lot of fun. I heard a bit of condescending laughter during the early parts of the film (at Wendell Corey's misogyny, for the most part) but a good number of the students had gotten pretty jumpy by the time Burr showed up to Stewart's apartment.

I just watched The Lady Vanishes and despite its many silly aspects, it somehow adds up to an entertaining movie. It's a script that is neither fish nor fowl, trying at once to be a political drama, slapstick comedy, romcom and thriller. How Hitchcock managed to make that heap of ill-assorted oddments into a watchable movie is a small miracle.

political drama? that's just Macguffin hooey.

most of Hitch's pre-WWII movies basically take place in Ruritania

quite a few of the post-WWII come to think of it

I'm not a huge Vertigo fan either. I admire it, in a detached way, but would much rather watch at least four or five others from the list above--not to mention Citizen Kane, which Vertigo may finally overtake in 2012's Sight and Sound poll.

― clemenza, Friday, July 16, 2010 9:19 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark

This may have been discussed in some other thread. But yeah, this did happen!

"Admire it in a detached way" is totally how I've always felt about Vertigo too, despite watching it once every 10 or so years since first seeing it as a Hitchcock-loving teen just to check and see if I've grown into it yet. Kane is way better, as are a ridiculous number of other Hitchcock films.

Okay, who was the joker who voted for The Mountain Eagle?

when did you guys have your hearts detached?

I only saw Citizen Kane and Vertigo for the first time within the past 6 weeks. I prefer Vertigo by a decent margin, enough that it whet my need for 5 or 6 more Hitchcock movies. Besides Vertigo, I probably enjoyed Frenzy and North By Northwest the most. I may give Notorious another shot, but I found it kinda boring.

xps

The old lady as a spy was Macguffin hooey, but portraying the philandering barrister as a coward who is killed by the nefarious central Europeans, even as he waves his white flag of surrender, was trying to put across a serious political message. And the character of the 'enemy' neurologist who is a smooth, calm, reassuring, sophisticated intellectual, a two-faced liar, and cold-blooded murderer, was also designedly nuanced propaganda.

why did i wait 3 decades plus to see Notorious?? amazing bit of work; such an insane balance of different moods, sorta feels like 3 different films are going on at once. incredible camera work. the Mum might give me nightmares.

Watched Rear Window with the kids, and it was neat to see a thriller operate the way it was designed to operate, as a nail-biter for a more innocent, less cynical audience, one that hides their eyes during the suspense scenes. Started NXNW with them, too, but I think it was just a little too fast and manic. They kept asking what was going on, and I was split between explaining it and telling them that none of it really matters.

It won't mean anything to anyone who hasn't seen the film, but one of my fave Criterion covers:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/criterion-production/release_boxshots/773-36fcbdf38c655b58c01d3f19ac34b16d/137_box_348x490_original.jpg

no better thriller scene than that one imo. few bigger oh shits than when you see she sees they see she sees.

No room, Sebastian.

also: Sebastian, the Hitch fink most deserving of pity?

and a nazi no less!

the way he often remarks on Devlin's looks makes me wonder if HE's got the hots for Dev and is worried Alicia will catch on.

IMO, subject to change at a moment's notice:

best of the best of the best
Notorious
Psycho
Rear Window
Shadow of a Doubt

next best of the best
North by Northwest
Rope
Vertigo

by anyone else, a masterpiece
The 39 Steps
Blackmail
Dial "M" for Murder
Family Plot
The Lady Vanishes
The Man Who Knew Too Much (1956)
Sabotage
Suspicion

flawed but great
The Birds
Frenzy
I Confess
Lifeboat
The Lodger
Rebecca
The Ring
Stage Fright
Strangers on a Train
The Trouble with Harry
To Catch a Thief
The Wrong Man
Young and Innocent

good
Foreign Correspondent
The Man Who Knew Too Much (1934)
Marnie (sorry, auteurists!)
Mr. & Mrs. Smith
Murder!
Rich and Strange
Secret Agent
Spellboard
Under Capricorn

hmmm...
Jamaica Inn
The Manxman
Saboteur
Torn Curtain

not good
Topaz (oof)

haven't seen… all the others

Rear Window really is the best of the best of the best. On that, everyone can agree.

Family Plot is a better film than Frenzy?

I have a creeping affection for the creepy Under Capricorn.

And I am about to rewatch The Secret Agent with Gielgud and Lorre. Ta!

now rank his directed TV episodes. "Lamb to the Slaughter" and "The Crystal Trench" come to mind.

those are good

i can't quite figure out why "breakdown" seems the hip hitchcock TV episode to cite these days. it's effectively disturbing but kind of crude.

speaking of crude, "bang! you're dead" is a fun one

"Lamb to the Slaughter" I read in high school sophomore English.

I forgot how garrulous and moldy Dial M For Murder is. It would have taken a stronger actor than Ray Milland and his terrible accent to redeem this stagebound material. Talk, talk, talk.

http://www.elviscostello.info/wiki/index.php/Talk_Talk

spatially it's quite nice

(dont think ive ever watched in 2D)

yes the negotiations of space among Milland, the police inspector and Cummings in that apartment is shrewd in its way.

also like the conceit that it's a sequel to Strangers on a Train

I kept thinking what would Preminger have done with this material and remembered Bunny Lake is Missing.

Just rewatced Dial M for Murder for the first time since high school. Not a great Hitch, but maybe a pretty good episode of Columbo. Why this was his foray into 3D is puzzling, though, given how this may be one of his least visually dazzling films.

the use of the 3D is kinda the point and i can't really name a 3D film i prefer.

I wonder if the final title card for The Wrong Man was forced upon Hitchcock (or if it was even possible to force something on Hitchcock in 1957). It's jarringly false, although the film is allegedly based on a true story, so maybe that's what actually happened. Anyway, take that title card away, and wow, what a depressing ending (admirably so). Reminded me in an odd way of Carrie's ending. Fascinating as a '50s film: one anonymous man in a gray flannel suit has his life turned upside down by another man in a gray flannel suit, wife understands the pointless of it all and sinks into clinical melancholy.

I recognized Werner Klemperer, but had no idea that was Tuesday Weld and Bonnie Franklin as the girls, and Harry Dean Stanton I completely missed.

Notorious really is his best.

I love any Hitchcock poll that doesn't put Vertigo on top.

who gives a fuck what's best? Vertigo is great, so is Notorious, Rear Window etc. Enjoy.

Ingrid is put through some p kinky stuff in the overly maligned Under Capricorn.

I have it in queue at the public library (it's been checked out for two weeks, funnily enough).

xp Counterpoint: Topaz is not great. But Frenzy is.

who gives a fuck what's best? Vertigo is great, so is Notorious, Rear Window etc. Enjoy.

This. Dude has at least six or seven hard-red masterpieces. I don't care if you prefer one over the other. Just prefer a few of them and we're good.

I wanted to like Stage Fright a lot (Jane Wyman is great) but man, what a mess. Or just confusing? I do have the urge to watch it again - at some point - unlike the bottom 5 or 6 of the 32 Hitchcock movies I've seen.

Some howlers in the subtitles for Murder!, such as NEWS CUP IN JAR for New Scotland Yard.

Forgot about Michael Powell working on Blackmail

so how's Stage Fright? Been too long.

Talking on twitter recently to the chap responsible for the great big 600-page Hitch Taschen book and he recommended Young and Innocent as a lesser-known classic. I've never heard of it! Can't wait to check it out now though.

Young and Innocent is grebt. Don’t won’t to say much more to avoid spoilers.

Now I want to buy this book Hitchcock’s Music.

Stage Fright is OK--Jane Wyman's attempt at an English accent is really rough, but Dietrich is great and Wyman is too otherwise, it's solid lower-middle tier Hitchcock imo.

I've warmed to Shadow of a Doubt, despite the script's overemphatic small town Americana and the way Teresa Wright gives every line the expected stresses.

the script's overemphatic small town Americana

Wasn't the script literally written by Thornton Wilder? Anyway, it's a great one, and a great (early-ish) Joseph Cotton role.

Yep.

Cotton is well-cast.

*Cotten

Feel like the relationship between the two Charlies is the apex/epitome of Hitchcock "doubling."

Did you ever watch Stage Fright, Alfred? flappy bird's assessment is pretty accurate.

a meh

Yeah. I remember exactly one line from it, when Dietrich wanted to tart up her widow's weeds.

Which I see I mentioned upthread ten years ago. Time flies.

The Hitchcock Poll

Teresa Wright the GOAT. I actually think she gave a better performance in the Hitchcock Presents episode she did, "Lonely Place" or something, Bruce Dern is in it. it's on streaming sites that are not youtube that are easy to find. Absolutely astonishing performance. Frankly last time I watched SOAD I thought she was a bit too gee-shucks for some of it, but it's necessary for the incest subtext

who gives a fuck what's best? Vertigo is great, so is Notorious, Rear Window etc. Enjoy.

Right as usual, Morbs.

You can enjoy the movies AND enjoy discussing what's best!

"no need to argue about movies when we can all enjoy our different favorites without conflict"

LOL who posted that and what did they do with morbs

Lol, exactly.

Although truth be told, that seems to be a classic flanking maneuver that I believe he employed upon more than one occasion.

It had been so long since I last saw "Rebecca" that I not only forgot so much of it *doesn't* take place at the house, but I forgot basically the last half hour deviates from the Gothic stuff entirely and becomes kind of the George Sanders show.

ha yeah, i always forget about that part too, and then when it comes its like a whole extra bonus movie!

watched marnie last night for the first time in a couple decades and man, is that movie such a bizarre misfire. i was enjoying the first two thirds or so just watching these two characters who initially seem super cool and sexy and together, and then the layers get peeled back until we eventually see that theyre both completely twisted walking disaster areas - almost reminded me of phantom thread, love story between two deeply warped people whose pathologies nevertheless complement each other. but as the freudian stuff takes over more and more it just gets so goofy. at the end my partner was like "oh so she bonked bruce dern on the head, big deal", which made me lol in agreement.

Forgot about Michael Powell working on Blackmail

This was just on, I'd never seen it before, it was good!

Yes

To-Night
'Golden Curls'

Saw Notorious for the first time today and as much as I fell for Bergmann, the character I can't stop thinking about is Claude Rains'. Only Hitchcock could/would make me feel sorry for an actual Nazi (notwithstanding John Boyne's efforts)?

What I came to ask: is there a definitive Hitchcock documentary?

Hitchcock/Truffaut maybe?

Watching Rebecca for the first time in a while, I'm struck by Laurence Olivier's proto-Method performance: mumbles, ear pulling, tossing lines away.