ILX accent/homophone survey

For me:
a)no, b)yes, c)no, d)no, e)no, f)no, g)yes, h)yes, i)yes, j)yes, k)no, l)no, m)no, n)no, o)no, p)yes, q)no, r)yes, s)yes, t)yes, u)no, v)yes, w)no
Lived most of my life in or around London (but definitely don't have a cockney accent).

a) j) k) q) central belt scottish

Pretty much the same for me:

b) aren't - aunt
g) sure - shore
h) pour - poor
i) saw - sore
j) won - one
k) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
s) tuna - tuner
v) earn - urn

RP-ish but with a southeast England twinge

Same as N,B&S's then, except I wouldn't say "call" and "cool" the same (that's proper London to me), nor "dew" and "Jew". And I'm interested as to how his pronunciation of "wholly" and "holy" differs.

I think this is going to provide evidence for RJG's pride in the precision of Scottish accents. Though my RP dad would differentiate a lot more of the pairs than I do.

Which of these sound the same when you say them?

a) massed - mast, b) aren't - aunt, c) Pam - palm, d) have - halve, e) putt - put, f) would - wooed, g) sure - shore, h) pour - poor, i) saw - sore, j) won - one, k) cot - caught, l) balm - bomb, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, o) marry - Mary, p) call - cool, q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, s) tuna - tuner, t) dew - Jew, u) undue - undo, v) earn - urn, w) fur - fair

YES: a, b, h, i, j, r, s, v

NO: c, d, e, f, g, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, , t, u, w

And where do you come from / how would you describe your accent?

Pretty generic south-east. At my school, some kids spoke with a generic south-east accent and some sounded a little Cockney, as there was a wide demographic mix owing to the school's location (Enfield, north London) and its selection policy at that time. When I left school and went to Bristol Uni, my voice became posher owing to that university's large proportion of public school educated students. My mother noticed this change when I spoke to her on the phone after *three quarters of a term*. Since graduating, my accent has drifted back again to generic south east. Whether this has to do with the people I have mixed with in the 13 years I have lived in Oxford or the development of "estuary English" affecting speech patterns of the country as a whole, I am not quite sure (possibly a mixture of the two). I occasionally say 't's with the glottal stop, although this is not my default pronunciation. I suspect I am more inclined to do this when drunk.

same - a, h, i, j, q, r, s, v and sometimes g. a bit fucked up, ppl tend to think i'm scandinavian (not that scandinavians have fucked up accents, but sounding like one when i'm not is a bit ???)

Same as N,B&S's then, except I wouldn't say "call" and "cool" the same (that's proper London to me), nor "dew" and "Jew". And I'm interested as to how his pronunciation of "wholly" and "holy" differs.

I think of my accent as more or less RP, but reading this entry on Estuary English, I'd say I do nearly all those things (except I'd never drop the 't' in 'water') and none of the cockney things. So the dew/jew thing is covered by the 'yod coalescence' bit, and the call/cool thing is some kind of side effect of the 'dark l' sounding more like a 'w'.

It's difficult to explain the wholly/holy thing. The first one starts with the sound in 'hog' (minus the 'g') then has that weird 'l' becomes 'w' thing going on. The second one starts with 'hoe' and then has a 'clear l'.

bghiqrs - pretty much the same as Alba, but excluding j and v. Accent is posher end of south east middle-class twunt - go me.

I'm the same as Nasty, Brutish & Short except swap P & Q round.

I'm from the West Midlands but I've lived in the south since I was 18 and my accent wasn't that strong anyway so I think I'm sort of RP + glottal stops + occasional lapsing into Worcester-isms like saying Twalve instead of Twelve.

Grandpoint Genie - if you say "massed" and "mast" the same it doesn't make you sound very southeast to me? Have you got northern roots or something?

No: a, c, d, e, f, k, l, m, n, o, p, t, u, w
Yes: b, g, h, i, j, r, s, v,

austraalien.

a) massed - mast - NO
b) aren't - aunt - YES
c) Pam - palm - NO
d) have - halve - NO
e) putt - put - NO
f) would - wooed - NO
g) sure - shore - YES
h) pour - poor - YES
i) saw - sore - YES
j) won - one - YES
k) cot - caught - NO
l) balm - bomb - NO
m) vary - very - NO
n) marry - merry - NO
o) marry - Mary - NO
p) call - cool - NO
q) wholly - holy - YES
r) witch - which - YES
s) tuna - tuner - YES
t) dew - Jew - NO
u) undue - undo - NO
v) earn - urn - YES
w) fur - fair - NO

My accent is horrible. I was born in east London, all my relatives are north London, then we moved to Essex, then the midlands where my best friend was a Liverpudlian who I used to copy all the time. After a bit nobody could understand a word I said. Back then girl = gull for instance. I had speech training for a couple of years, which helped a bit but it's still a nasty mix.

Born and raised in the north of England, lived in London half of my life.

So, putt and put used to be more similar than they are now.

But....

Arent and aunt are different.

shore and sure are the same.

Massed and mast are the same.

And so forth.

By the way, does anyone pronounce witch and which differently? Surely that can't be a regional accent indicator...

xp
Of course as soon as I go south past Watford it's back to cock-er-nee.

By the way, does anyone pronounce witch and which differently? Surely that can't be a regional accent indicator...

I think some Scots and Americans might do.

I think a/h/i/w are definitely the same out of my gob - e/g/r/s are also probably indistinguishable until I'm r e a l l y e n u c i a t i n g.

I'm from the northeastern corner of the Wirral, so I have a soft (as shite) Scouse accent which I've systematically buried under layers of fudged RP over the years, but the flat vowels always poke through.

(Daniel: I don't know what the linguistic term for it is, but the "h" in "which" can be sounded if you're reet posh, like).

Ah I see - you mean like white being pronounced /hwait/ etc? Got you.

By the way, I do love the bit in Leave Me Alone by New Order, when Sumner rhymes book with luck.

unless, not until

reet posh = also, if you're trilling and burring like mad

By the way, does anyone pronounce witch and which differently?

'Which' is sometimes pronounced with a whistle if you know what I mean - 'hoowich'. I had a slightly upper-class English teacher that always did that.

Am I the only brit who says "shewer" for "sure"?

The 'wh' in which and the 'w' in witch are distinct sounds in quite a few scottish (and other) accents. In linguistic terms the 'w' in witch is voiced (uses the voice box) and the 'wh' is unvoiced (doesn't use voice box).
It's a similar thing with the 'ch' in loch which is not pronounced the same as the 'ck' in lock.

I'm from Fife and the only ones I say the same are J and K.

YES: b, g, h, i, j, r, t, v

I am from New Zealand.

Lived in Australia for a year and a half now, and my mum is Australian (though had lived in NZ for about 5 years by my birth and not very strong accent).
Australians mock me for not being able to pronounce 'bear''beer' and 'bare' differently. I actually would like to be able to.
With vowels, an example of difference for me here is that Australians usually can't understand me when I saw 'ten'.
I notice my vowels tending toward a more Australian pronunciation sometimes (at least the i...noticed it when I exclaimed 'shit!'the other day) but my Australian boyfriend doesn't pick up on it.

Alba, here's my vague attempt to demonstrate 'wholly' v 'holy':
http://media.putfile.com/wholly-v-holy

a) massed - mast, - no
b) aren't - aunt, - no
c) Pam - palm, - no
d) have - halve, - no
e) putt - put, - no
f) would - wooed, - no
g) sure - shore, - no
h) pour - poor, - SAME
i) saw - sore, - SAME
j) won - one, - SAME
k) cot - caught, - no
l) balm - bomb, - no
m) vary - very, - SAME
n) marry - merry, - no
o) marry - Mary, - no
p) call - cool, - no
q) wholly - holy, - SAME
r) witch - which, - SAME
s) tuna - tuner, - SAME
t) dew - Jew, - VERY CLOSE
u) undue - undo, - no
v) earn - urn, - SAME
w) fur - fair - no

A mish-mash of Hertfordshire/New England with a bit of NYC

Yes to a,b,e,g,h,i,q,r,v.

I've lived in the North of England all my life (Manchester and Sheffield to be precise) and whilst I don't have the stereotypical Northern accent - as evinced by the fair = fur thing (much closer to RP than most up here) I do still have a bit of a twang.

b) aren't - aunt,
g) sure - shore,
h) pour - poor,
i) saw - sore,
j) won - one,
r) witch - which,
v) earn - urn,

All of the above, I pronounce the two the same. The rest, not. I was born in London and brought up in various Home Conuties, with brief detours to the East Midlands, Hamburg and Sydney. I now live in London and any residue of Midlandsish or Sydneysider have long subsided.

The sames:

a) massed - mast, b) aren't - aunt, i) saw - sore, j) won - one, o) marry - Mary ,q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, s) tuna - tuner, u) undue - undo, v) earn - urn,

The differents:

c) Pam - palm, d) have - halve, e) putt - put, f) would - wooed, g) sure - shore, h) pour - poor, k) cot - caught, l) balm - bomb, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, p) call - cool, t) dew - Jew, w) fur - fair

Accent = Sort of South England/lapsed Geordie/variation of a vague northern / whoever I'm talking to wandering minstrel I....

These ones are the same:

h) pour - poor
i) saw - sore
j) won - one
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
s) tuna - tuner
v) earn - urn

I'm from just outside Southampton but have lost any faint Hampshire Hogisms (apart from saying somewhen) and never had the london overspill accent that a lot of people in Southampton do. Parents grew up in Ruislip/Uxbridge, so although working class backgrounds speak v RP. As a result I have weird poshisms like saying /tisju/ instead of /tishju/ for tissue.

I can vouch for nbs's dark /l/s. They are like /w/s.

Just listened to nbs's wholly holy thing. Very interesting.

My question is: isn't the dark l -> /w/ thing negated by the fact that it's followed by ly?

I speak like an eighteenth century Tilbury costermonger.

h) pour - poor

Let's not forget paw. I pronounce all three the same (this has been known to cause the roffles).

these are the same to my mouth

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor
j) won - one
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

i was born in california and raised in boston. i have a generic american accent.

a) massed - mast: SAME
b) aren't - aunt: NOPE
c) Pam - palm: NOPE
d) have - halve: PRETTY MUCH THE SAME (sometimes I pronounce "halve" weirdly if it's unclear that I don't mean "have")
e) putt - put: NOPE
f) would - wooed: NOPE
g) sure - shore: NOPE
h) pour - poor: SOMETIMES THE SAME (my pronunciation of "poor" is inconsistent, I just realized)
i) saw - sore: NOPE
j) won - one: SAME
k) cot - caught: NOPE
l) balm - bomb: NOPE
m) vary - very: SAME
n) marry - merry: SAME
o) marry - Mary: SAME
p) call - cool: NOPE
q) wholly - holy: SAME
r) witch - which: SAME
s) tuna - tuner: NOPE
t) dew - Jew: NOPE
u) undue - undo: SAME
v) earn - urn: SAME
w) fur - fair: NOPE

I've lived in the Midwest (mostly Chicago area) pretty much my whole life.

a) massed - mast - Yes
b) aren't - aunt - No
c) Pam - palm - No
d) have - halve - Yes
e) putt - put - No
f) would - wooed - No
g) sure - shore - No
h) pour - poor - Yes
i) saw - sore - No
j) won - one - No
k) cot - caught - Yes
l) balm - bomb - Yes
m) vary - very - Yes
n) marry - merry - Yes
o) marry - Mary - Yes
p) call - cool - No
q) wholly - holy - Yes
r) witch - which - Yes
s) tuna - tuner - No
t) dew - Jew - No
u) undue - undo - Yes
v) earn - urn - Yes
w) fur - fair - No

I think I have a fairly typical California accent.

The same, or near as dammit: a) massed - mast, d) have - halve, j) won - one, q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, v) earn - urn

u) undue - undo have different stresses but the /u/ at the end is the same.

There might be a slight difference in d) but how often do I even say "halve"?

Grew up outside of Philadelphia and then in NYC.

j) won - one - No
-- Michael White

How are they different for you? Which (if either) rhymes with 'gun'?

They aren't. It's a typo. In my diction, they're perfect homophones and they both rhyme with gun.

It's not the rhyming that it hangs upon, it's the aspiration at the start.

It's blowing my mind a bit that people pronounce cot/caught and merry/marry/Mary the same; I need to pay more attention to US accents. I'll test this on Pam when I get home!

Really? I know in Manchester they don't rhyme, but I can never remember which way round it is: one of them rhymes with 'gone' and the other with 'gun' (but a northern, not a southern 'gun'). (xpost to Alba)

I say 'one' like gone and won like 'gun', not that I'm from Manchester though.

Rather randomly inserted inverted commas there.

N,B&S, maybe you're right. I really meant to point out the aspiration issue, not deny that they couldn't rhyme. I'm interested who thinks they don't rhyme, though.

It's blowing my mind a bit that people pronounce cot/caught and merry/marry/Mary the same differently.

Or at least it would if I hadn't already known that these were commonly tested words in linguistic surveys.

The one that does blow my mind, though is aunt/aren't. These are pretty clearly differently pronounced words to me: for one, one has an R and the other doesn't.

What about ant/aunt, jaymc?

SAME:A,D,H,J,M,N,O,R,U,V
DIFF:REST

xpost

"won" rhymes with "gun"

"one" with "gone"

Although, to be fair, I think that's RP.

Re ant/aunt: I pronounce them the same, but I've at least heard other people in the U.S. pronounce them differently ("ant" vs. "awnt").

Stone Monkey: no way - in RP they *both* rhyme with 'gun' (a southern gun!)

Jaymc: most people in England don't do Rs

d) have - halve, h) pour - poor, j) won - one, k) cot - caught, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, o) marry - Mary,q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, v) earn - urn

I grew up in upper midwest US (MN) and currently live in New England (MA).

Living in MA makes s) completely hilarious to me.

I know they aren't completely vocalized all the time (and actually sometimes they're added! -- posh BBC announcers saying "idee-er" for "idea"), but I guess I didn't realize that British speakers would consider their pronunciation to be as if the R wasn't even there at all.

yes for: a, g, h, j, q, r, v
no for: b, c, d, e, f, i, k, l, m, n, o, p, s, t, u, w

i grew up in central new jersey (in between philadelphia & NYC); currently live in hoboken, NJ (just across the hudson river from manhattan).

Really? Not the way I was taught it. Admittedly that was by my (quite)posh Jamaican mother (well, she was when she was back in Jamaica...)and a bunch of Catholic Nuns...

Doesn't the southern version of "gun" have that odd, indeterminate, relaxed vowel, shwa sound in it? Which has always sounded vaguely freaky to my ears - even though I still find myself using it sometimes. I can't recall ever having it battered into me to rhyme "one" with "gun" during the English Speaking Board assignments I endured as a child.

also, g (shore & sure) sounding alike is pretty much a hallmark of a new jersey accent for at least half the state.

Doesn't the southern version of "gun" have that odd, indeterminate, relaxed vowel, shwa sound in it?

No, the schwa is the vowel sound in 'a' or 'the', the first vowel in 'about' and the second vowel in 'doctor' (unless you pronounce the Rs). The southern English sound in 'gun' is more open (i.e. the mouth is wider open). I think some Americans use the schwa for this, though.

There are people up here who rhyme the two words, but they do it in a completely different way.

viz. won sounds like gun sound like ton.

a) massed - mast, b) aren't - aunt, c) Pam - palm, d) have - halve, e) putt - put, f) would - wooed, g) sure - shore, h) pour - poor, i) saw - sore, j) won - one, k) cot - caught, l) balm - bomb, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, o) marry - Mary, p) call - cool, q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, s) tuna - tuner, t) dew - Jew, u) undue - undo, v) earn - urn, w) fur - fair

no, yesish, no, no, no, no, yes, no, yes, yesish, no, no,yesish, no, no, no, yes, yes, yes, no, no, yesish, no

i'm from hongkong now london via nottingham and milton keynes

All you British non-rhotic speakers crack me up at times when you're writing out sounds, though I am aware as an American that eventually we will do away with every vowel sound but schwa.

with the notable exception of Philadelphia, practically the entire Northeast Corridor (DC to Boston) is non-rhotic.

These threads always founder on our lack of facility with the International Phonetic Alphabet.

C) k) q), working-class Glasgwegian.

I think my time at Uni actually made me more northern sounding. Although that being the case I probably went there sounding like Little Lord Fauntleroy. Which is a thought too horrifying to contemplate for any length of time.

according to this graphic from wikipedia, the areas in pink are non-rhotic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Non_rhotic-whites-usa.png

a) massed - mast, NO
b) aren't - aunt, NO
c) Pam - palm, NO
d) have - halve, YES but only when the word is 'halvesies'
e) putt - put, NO
f) would - wooed, NO
g) sure - shore, NO
h) pour - poor, sometimes
i) saw - sore, NO
j) won - one, YES
k) cot - caught, NO
l) balm - bomb, NO
m) vary - very, NO, but it's close
n) marry - merry, NO, but close again
o) marry - Mary, NO, my Mary is like merry. Go figure
p) call - cool, NO
q) wholly - holy, YES
r) witch - which, NO
s) tuna - tuner, NO
t) dew - Jew, NO
u) undue - undo, NO
v) earn - urn, YES
w) fur - fair, NO

Minnesota> New York> London.

I think that's a controversial assessment.

Mine?

My homophones: a) massed - mast; d) have - halve; h) pour - poor; o) marry - Mary; r) witch - which; u) undue - undo; v) earn - urn.

I also pronounce 'rum' and 'room' the same (both as the rest of the world says 'rum'). See also 'roof' and 'broom'.

I grew up in New England, far enough away from the coast to be rhotic, but close enough to feel compelled to add extra 'r' sounds where they don't belong. I don't have good ideas, I have good 'idears'. My father has the same accent only stronger; he has visited the city of "Chicargo, Illinois". After a years of orthodontic work as a teenager, I learned to overenuciate certain constanants to avoid slurring things badly, and I think my accent is a lot closer to a generic American accent because of it.

I also pronounce 'rum' and 'room' the same

Haha, I make fun of my girlfriend all the time because she pronounces "room" with the same vowel sound as in "good" rather than with the long U sound I use.

(She makes fun of me because I actually pronounce all four syllables of "comfortable.")

a) massed - mast, same
b) aren't - aunt, diff
c) Pam - palm, diff
d) have - halve, same
e) putt - put, diff
f) would - wooed, diff
g) sure - shore, diff
h) pour - poor, same
i) saw - sore, diff
j) won - one, same
k) cot - caught, pretty sure the same
l) balm - bomb, diff
m) vary - very, same
n) marry - merry, same
o) marry - Mary, same
p) call - cool, diff
q) wholly - holy, same
r) witch - which, usually the same (i think my mom says them differently)
s) tuna - tuner, diff
t) dew - Jew, diff
u) undue - undo, same
v) earn - urn, same
w) fur - fair, diff

almost always lived in kansas city, very standard midwestern accent.

though i've been questioning what "midwestern accent" means after being on a flight with a crew from milwaukee this week and wfting at a few of the things they said.

Everything I say is a mutter of schwas, like all the hicks in Idaho.

An American friend once told me that you could definitely hear that I wasn't an English speaker as I pronounced THE the wrong way. :-(

I did as a kid! I thought it was Theeeee for proper nouns and the usual thuh for regular nouns.

my homophones - a, d, j, l (basically), q, r, u, v (but depending on how fast i'm talking some of these might get slightly different emphases)

nyc (with a little seattle thrown in)

a) massed - mast, Yes
b) aren't - aunt, No
c) Pam - palm, No
d) have - halve, Yes
e) putt - put, No
f) would - wooed, No
g) sure - shore, No
h) pour - poor, Yes
i) saw - sore, No
j) won - one, Yes
k) cot - caught, No
l) balm - bomb, No but close
m) vary - very, Yes
n) marry - merry, Yes
o) marry - Mary, Yes
p) call - cool, No
q) wholly - holy, Yes
r) witch - which, Yes
s) tuna - tuner, No
t) dew - Jew, No
u) undue - undo, No
v) earn - urn, Yes
w) fur - fair, No

I'm like 8 generations deep in North Carolina, northern piedmont.

I've been in Oregon all year and I think some of that West Coast Duder accent is trying to creep in, but I'm fighting it.

I seem to in on a Friday night recording myself say all these things for some people on the internet.

Here you go.

same for me: a,d,h,j,k,m,n,o,q,r,u,v
diff for me: the other ones

first 6 years spent touring across N. America w/my dad, once school started urban/suburban/small town MN.

a) massed - mast, same
b) aren't - aunt, diff
c) Pam - palm, diff
d) have - halve, diff
e) putt - put, almost same
f) would - wooed, diff
g) sure - shore, same
h) pour - poor, same
i) saw - sore, same
j) won - one, same
k) cot - caught, diff
l) balm - bomb, diff
m) vary - very, diff
n) marry - merry, diff
o) marry - Mary, diff
p) call - cool, diff
q) wholly - holy, subtly diff
r) witch - which, almost the same
s) tuna - tuner, same
t) dew - Jew, same
u) undue - undo, diff (undue sounds line "unJEW"
v) earn - urn, same
w) fur - fair, diff

base of something resembling RP with random loans from Hull, Manchester, Lincoln & Gloucester accents.

Raised in Northern New Jersey, about 18 miles from Manhattan. Regardless of what Joe Piscipo or the Sopranos say, the accent here is pretty mild. It has that flat sound and sometimes that horrible nasal A that I've heard some other English-speaking accents stricken with.

a) massed - mast, a little different ... the double S in 'massed' makes the consonant sound longer than in 'mast'
b) aren't - aunt, different
c) Pam - palm, different
d) have - halve, different
e) putt - put, different
f) would - wooed, diff
g) sure - shore, different
h) pour - poor, same
i) saw - sore, different
j) won - one, same
k) cot - caught, different
l) balm - bomb, different
m) vary - very, different
n) marry - merry, different
o) marry - Mary, different
p) call - cool, different
q) wholly - holy, different - the 2 "l"s in 'wholly' make a longer sound than the single l in "holy"
r) witch - which, same
s) tuna - tuner, different
t) dew - Jew, same
u) undue - undo same
v) earn - urn, same
w) fur - fair, different

o) marry - Mary, different

serosuiyl??

oh, I copy and pasted from some other dudes because I was too lazy to do it myself. Marry and mary is the same deal as the other double consonants ... the two Rs make it slightly longer, but otherwise the same.

a) massed - mast
k) cot - caught
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

Los Angeles

sorry, those are the pairs that are homonyms to me. The other pairs aren't.

i'm deeming something a homonym if it has the same vowel sound, whether or not there are minor differences in the consonants.

a) massed - mast, Y
b) aren't - aunt, HELL NO
c) Pam - palm, N
d) have - halve, Y
e) putt - put, N
f) would - wooed, N
g) sure - shore, GOD NO
h) pour - poor, N
i) saw - sore, N
j) won - one, Y
k) cot - caught, THERE'S A VERY SUBTLE DIFFERENCE THAT COULD SLIP SOMETIMES
l) balm - bomb, AS FOR K
m) vary - very, Y
n) marry - merry, Y
o) marry - Mary, Y
p) call - cool, N, HOW IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?
q) wholly - holy, Y
r) witch - which, Y (MIGHT DO A MILD "HW" THING SOMETIMES BUT NOT CONSISTENTLY)
s) tuna - tuner, N
t) dew - Jew, N
u) undue - undo, SOMETIMES I'LL USE A YOD IN "DUE" (AND "NEW" ETC), SOMETIMES I WON'T. PROBABLY Y MORE OFTEN THAN N.
v) earn - urn, Y
w) fur - fair SEE P

Do urban English Canadian accents vary that much west of New Brunswick? Ottawa/Mtl/Toronto, trying hard to resist upstate New York-isms but they're creeping in.

o) marry - Mary, different

Uh, yes. I mean, the a in marry is shorter and more eh (longer) in Mary. Can't explain it though.

I did as a kid! I thought it was Theeeee for proper nouns and the usual thuh for regular nouns.

Well, no, she said I just said pronounced the the wrong (too short or sth, not with the right tongue movement or something).

Fuck, I r schtoopeed, I ken not explain.

pronouncing marry, merry or mary the same way is totally bizarre to me

East coasters will often

- say "Mary" with an A like month of May
- say "marry" with an A like in the word "massive"

(at the extremes it would be MAY-ree versus MAH-ree)

(wait no: that MAH is meant to be like in "massive," not like an O or like in "mama")

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
j) won - one
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

Though I'd have to say that there are probably slight differences in m and u. I'm from the UP of Michigan, land of a strong odd accent that I grew up avoiding.

Also, how do "dew" and "Jew" ever pronounced the same?

a) massed - mast,
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor
j) won - one
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy (maybe, seems like there's a difference but it's subtle)
r) witch - which
v) earn - urn

I R from Texas.

I am an East coaster!

say "marry" with an A like in the word "massive"

yes, this is how I say it. this is the only true and correct way.

say "Mary" with an A like month of May

i don't even understand that. i say it like mare-ee. this is also the only true and correct way.

merry = meh-ree

a) massed - mast, Same (tho mast would be shorter)
b) aren't - aunt, Different.
c) Pam - palm, Diff
d) have - halve, Diff
e) putt - put, Uh same?
f) would - wooed, Diff
g) sure - shore, Diff
h) pour - poor, Almost the same
i) saw - sore, Diff
j) won - one, Diff
k) cot - caught, Diff
l) balm - bomb, Diff
m) vary - very, Diff
n) marry - merry, Diff
o) marry - Mary, Diff
p) call - cool, Diff
q) wholly - holy, Almost same I think
r) witch - which, Same
s) tuna - tuner, Diff
t) dew - Jew, Diff
u) undue - undo, Diff
v) earn - urn, Same?
w) fur - fair Diff

I'm probably a freak Belgian twit who thinks too highly of herself when it comes to the English pronounciation. :-(

I'm also surprised that so many Americans pronounce "cot" and "caught" the same way. To my ears, the vowel sound in "cot" is like "father" and the vowel sound in "caught" is like "law."

Also, how do "dew" and "Jew" ever pronounced the same?

suspect this "soft d" is an english thing, my "dew" definitely starts with a "j" sound.

"during", "due", "undue" become ""juring", "jue"/"jew", "unjew".

"duel" and "jewel" are pretty much indistinguishable for me

Actually now I'm a little unsure, saying "cot/caught" and "bomb/balm" over and over to myself, which probably means there isn't a great difference.

That East Coast merry/Mary/marry thing is cute! Like a couple other East Coast pronunciations, it reminds me of my parents' Indian accent. (Do you say "fah-rest" too?)

I've noticed that many of people in upstate NY say "doc-u-men-terry" or "el-e-men-terry" instead of "doc-u-men-tree" and "el-e-men-tree," (maybe with a schwa before the "ree") which I'm more used to.

Um, jaymc, what is the exact difference between the vowels in "father" and "law?"

"many people"

Gab -- Mary like mare or la mer is exactly what I mean by "month of May."

You know, there are a bunch of things here that I said differently right up until this one textbook around second or third grade convinced me that I was doing it wrong. I don't know if it has to do with my parents being non-native speakers or what, but there were all these homophone quizzes that I would get so angry with, because they were clearly asking for things I rejected:

- I pronounced "won" like "Juan" until this book suggested it should sound like "one"
- I pronounced "milk" to rhyme with "whelk" until this book said it should rhyme with "silk"
- I pronounced the second B in bomb until I was college and got made fun of for saying "UnabomBER," but then again that was only slightly after I learned that "haphazardly" was not pronounced "haffazardly"

Jaymc is confusing me: I don't think there's a difference in how I pronounce the vowels in "father" versus "law."

the original list misses "blur" / "blow" - for my daughter's Hull accent, they are exactly the same

<i>I don't think there's a difference in how I pronounce the vowels in "father" versus "law."</i>

for me there definitely is.
"father" is same as "farther"
"law" is same as "lore"

Um, jaymc, what is the exact difference between the vowels in "father" and "law?"

AHHH vs. AWWW.

yep thats it

Do you say "fah-rest" too?)

yes. and AH-ruh-ginn.

(Also HOCK vs. HAWK, TOCK vs. TALK, etc.)

sometimes even AH-ruh-gone

Re: "father" vs. "law" (not to speak for jaymc) - I think it's the diff between "ah" and "awe" the way I say them.

xposts: yep. For me, I think it's might actually be more of a pitch/tonal difference.

the original list misses "blur" / "blow" - for my daughter's Hull accent, they are exactly the same

I am imagining her trying to buy Parklife in a shady record store and getting fascinating results.

"law" is same as "lore"

Surely that would involve pronouncing it "low" -- I'm assuming you mean you're one of those weirdos who says it practically like LWAH.

I pronounced "milk" to rhyme with "whelk" until this book said it should rhyme with "silk"

I've heard "melk" quite a bit, actually. Dunno if it's a Midwestern thing or what.

AHHH vs. AWWW.

This doesn't help me any. (I mean, I know how some Brits and East Coast Americans pronounce them differently but I'm guessing that's not what you're getting at.)

xposts Well, my "tock" is slightly more of a rounded "o" sound than the broader "ah" in "talk". (Americans sometimes comment on this, e.g. when I pronounce the name "Colin.") That's it? And "law" is more of an "o?"

more xposts Yeah my friend from Chicago says "melk" (and rhymes "root" with "put").

The LWAH of the LYAND

We might have to do a section on ORANGE in here! I'm still into the east coast thing where it's kind of an "aurange" or an "awha-range"

xpost I think lots of people say "melk," but I got that in the southwest, not the midwest -- I think it's just easier than saying "milk." I feel kind of fussy when I make myself say "milk" actually, and I'm sure 90% of the time I just casually do "melk."

ah-ringe

I seem to in on a Friday night recording myself say all these things for some people on the internet

Well, I think my voice is a lot like Alba's but less assertive - for which I am frequently ridiculed as being 'oh - very posh'. It' amazing how much antipathy people can have towards an accent - as if you are somehoew trying to assume a status you're not entitled to.

What's really irritating is I spent my first few years in an international school in Africa, surrounded mostly by American kids - so I'm really pissed off to be lumbered with my accent.

melk is Dutch for milk. hah.

Do you guys have Pronounciation classes? Here it's more or less... not required but definitely recommended if you want to end up in broadcasting.

melk (from what i've been told by angry east coasters trying to teach me acting diction in college) is largely midwestern, as is "sorry" pronounced as sohry vs. sahrry

I grew up with a girl who not only say "melk" but also "pellow." And she pronounced "museum" as "mu-ZAM." I think her parents were from the mid-Atlantic (Pennsylvania or Delaware).

xpost

no not "low", more "l - awe" to rhyme with score and door

don't know if that helps!

I thought "sohry" was exclusively Canadian!

I don't know how to denote the dipthong I mean: you have to imagine a stereotypical NYC-area accent saying things like AWH-range and AWH-dience and AWH-full. There's a "waah" to it. Evelyn WAUGH-full.

Wisconsin sorry = SWA-RY. Wiconsin tomorrow = to-MWAH-row

In fact I thought that "orr" (cf "tomorrow") might be the only uniquely Canadian pronunciation. That's really disappointing.

I think most Canadianisms have some bleedover into Upper Michigan, northern Wisconsin, and northern Minnesota.

xp Well, John is from Minnesota. I've never heard it pronounced that way in Illinois.

TTTTT, I know the English (from England) pronunciation you're referring to. I was curious how someone from the Midwest differentiated the two.

Btw, I say "orange" like the woman's voice in Boards of Canada's "Aquarius." (Same initial vowel sound as the dude's voice, but he turns the word into two syllables: "or-inge.")

how many nycers actually have a stereotypically nyc (bk?) accent?

I recognize the differences jaymc is pointing out but they're not part of my natural (lazy) California speech pattern. I never realized how lazy it was until I started learning French where they elide consonants a lot but not vowels as much. I had to learn to entirely retrain my mouth to make them frog sounds.

BTW, that MN accent in Fargo is actually North Dakota/upper northwest MN. The NE and central North MN accent (outside of duluth) is too bizarre to describe.

Whenever I hang out with CHILXors, many of whom are originally from the East Coast, someone inevitably says "hah-rible" and it makes me all o_O.

(The "sorry" I'm thinking of doesn't have that Long Island-ish "aw" thing to it though. Same vowel as "corridor" or the first vowel in "corduroy." Or "orange." haha)

xposts Well, a *lot* of the people who come here from Brooklyn or Long Island (and there are a lot of them) sound to me like they have thick accents.

I hope someone is organizing and analyzing these results.

hagar the whore-able

Well it's not a really native city, Gabb! Especially in young-professional circles, obviously (though I think you get plenty of Long Island and New Jersey accents there). And then a large portion of actual native New Yorkers are black, Puerto Rican, Dominican, etc., so the accent has big other elements to it. Still, you go out to the more family sections of Queens, or whatever, you get plenty of the accents going!

I think the midwest and Canadian "sorry"s are slightly different. But in my Canadian travels I was never quite clear on how to place the panoply of slightly different Canadian accents I heard (and delighted in).

Same vowel as "corridor" or the first vowel in "corduroy." Or "orange."

i don't use the corduroy vowel for either corridor or orange (which have the same ah vowel)

my several-generations native nyc (bk+bx=mannahatta) accent, such as it is, can be pegged as east coast, but is nothing like the stereotypical nyc accent, and neither are the accents of my parents or grandparents.

This thread makes me wish Tavis Smiley posted to ILX

most native nyers i know don't sound like stereotypical nyers either

tavis smiley is my favorite person in the world

The NPR radio show host?

where is that accent from, rite

A California accent is just more or less that neutral Hollywood accent, right? Sometimes with a slight Sean-Penn-in-Fast-Times drag to it?

AFAICT California accents are closer to Torontonian ones than Buffalo/Rochester accents are.

xposts haha but all the pronunciations you've posted fit my idea of the stereotypical NYC accent, gabbneb!

I've noticed that you can tell with my dad's siblings which ones have by and large stayed in the Chicago neighborhood they grew up in and which have moved out. Part of the stereotypical Chicago accent, interestingly enough, is eliding the ah/aw distinction I made earlier, so that people talk about going for an "Italian sahhh-sage."

(My dad was one of the ones who moved out.)

the thing that fascinates me is the mary-marry-merry confluence. I can't place how this would sound. is the vowel

like "air"
like in "cat"
like in "peg" ?

Tavis is from Indiana, so far as I know, but his accent comes off more Missouri, sometimes! And then it's just so clipped and idiosyncratic that I suspect part of it is just ... Tavis.

SASSIDGES. CHIKAGUH. DRINKIN BEERSE.

xposts haha but all the pronunciations you've posted fit my idea of the stereotypical NYC accent, gabbneb!

isn't quawfee tawk the biggest stereotype?

Tavis is from Indiana, so far as I know, but his accent comes off more Missouri, sometimes!

oh boy!

xpost They are all mare-ee. Like a mare. Like la mer in French.

like I'd say "mary" .cool, thanks for clearing that up.

Sometimes I think that the clipped quality of Tavis's speech sounds like that of G.W. Bush!

I want to marry Mary. It'd make me merry, to marry Mary

From Wiki_

"One of ten children, Smiley was born in Gulfport, Mississippi. He and his family moved to Indiana when his father, an Air Force non-commissioned officer, was transferred to Grissom Air Force Base in Bunker Hill, Indiana. Upon arriving in Indiana, the Smiley family took up residence in a crowded mobile home in nearby Kokomo.[citation needed]

Upon graduation from Maconaquah High School, Smiley attended Indiana University, where he was involved in student government, was accepted into the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity, and participated in the first of many political and social advocacy campaigns in which he would engage in the course of his career when his friend was killed by Indiana police officers who claimed to have acted in self-defense.[1] Smiley helped lead protests to defend his friend, whom he believed had been wrongfully killed. After reconsidering a decision to drop out of college at the end of his junior year, he interned as an aide to Tom Bradley, the first African-American mayor of Los Angeles. He returned to Indiana University after the internship, receiving his bachelor's degree in law and public policy in 1986. Upon graduation, he served as an aide to Mayor Bradley until 1990."

I can't even think of how to start on Tavis's awesome speech patterns, except for the following two examples:

obviously = ob-vyush-leh
Tavis Smiley = Tevvis SchMYleh

Actually he sounds a lot like the voice my cousins in Indiana would put on as a comedy serious-guy voice!

Like a mare. Like la mer in French.

Ha ha! To me the vowel in mer is closer to TITTT's 'merry'.

TTTTT: "air"

This is probably pretty close to what I sound like or what a typical 'Ottawa accent' is like (if there's such a thing and I've been told there is.) Although I'm actually slightly Americanized compared to this. My "all" sounds are a little closer to "ahl" and my "bag" is even more "bayg"-ish.

xposts Michael White OTM. nabisco=anglo!

tavis smiley is like gus grissom!

so, what, do these marry-merry-mary people sing "have yourself a mary little christmas"?!

Oh no, not Stella and her bloody snow peas again.

Anyway to the extent that "cot" and "caught" are different, "cot" would be slightly closer to the vowel sound in his "frog" or "Bob" (which is more exaggerated than mine.) Is this the difference jaymc was getting at?

(xposts)

We also need a small plastic snake and a big toy frog for the kids

(Yes, of course, gabbneb! But I recognize yours from TV.)

(Well, that "coffee talk" thing is a comic exaggeration but doesn't even sound that gross of one to me! I gather that the South Park "aboot" thing doesn't sound as ridiculous of an exaggeration to Americans as it does to me.)

Was that your American accent, Nick? Pam is well impressed (but she wants to know why you insisted on "wanna"?). I quizzed her over the fruit & veg in Sainsbury's tonight about the merry/marry/Mary thing and, yep, they're homophones in her Arkansas via Mary(!)land twang. Oh, how I larfed.

xxxpost

I wasn't sure how to do "want" so I settled for "wanna". I don't think all Americans say "wanna" or anything. It wasn't really supposed to be a good accent. Just to illustrate how Mary, Marry and Merry could sound the same.

Well, it gets the seal of approval from the Linthicum-Ferndale jury. It kicks Hugh Laurie's sorry* ass/arse anyhow/anyhoo.

would love to know what the North Americans make of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3FXG5cElws

have a bit of in in my accent but not much as I'm not native. however as mentioned above my daughter (age 6) is fluent...

Guy #1 in black sounds like my semiology prof. Guy #2 (Paul from the Hullblokes?) definitely has a thicker accent but one that doesn't sound totally unfamiliar. Scottish influence?? The two actors sound like a cartoon. That's an exaggeration, surely?

Guy #2 is Scottish!

The actors, yes of course it's played for laughs, but nowhere near as exaggerated as you might expect.

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor ("poor me, poor me, pour me a drink!")
j) won - one
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

I'm from the Baltimore suburbs (pronounced, variously: Balnuhmer, Balmer, Ballmore).

Guy #2 is Scottish!

haha well there you go. Didn't want to say for sure.

if anyone cares, wikipedia's entries on new york city accents and philadelphia accents, which it contends is a variant on a wider Mid Atlantic dialect (i.e., including Baltimore). note that, at least in the case of philadelphian accents, the distinguishing signs aren't really in the homophones listed above (e.g., tendencies to pronounce long e's before the letter "g" like short i's ["iggle" instead of "eagle," "liggle" instead of "legal"] and to pronounce short i's in words like "attitude" and "beautiful" as long e's ["att-EE-tude" and "beau-TEE-ful" for "attitude" and "beautiful," respectively) as well as "dark l's" (which, i guess, may come from the original welsh settlers in the area [as evidenced by towns in the philadelphia suburbs with names like bala cynwyd, merion, haverford, etc.]).

FWIW, while i definitely DON'T talk like either a stereotypical new yorker (e.g., archie bunker or tony soprano [truthfully, i don't think that i've EVER met anyone from NYC who talks like archie bunker]) and i don't THINK that i sound like an actual new yorker -- after working/living around NYC for almost 10 years now some NYCisms probably have crept into my speech.

my father has a bit of a philly accent (since that was where he was born); my mother's accent at times sounds like a strange mix b/w standard new jersey and yorkshire/british (since that was were she was born). i don't think that my speech falls into either extreme, though.

I don't trust Wikipedia for any kind-of academic information... I think all those accent pages were edited by an unemployed massage therapist using college linguistics textbooks from 1982.

Tony Soprano is supposed to be stereotypical New Jersey... some older Italians from Bayonne and other urban areas sound almost 100% like that, but most people, no.

Do NYC people really not see any connection between their accents and the TV stereotypes? I don't know anyone who says "aboot" but I understand what it's based on.

(On the other hand, I will go to my grave convinced that "hoser" was something made up by SCTV. I don't care if someone shows up from Saskatchewan or somewhere to dispute this.)

a) massed - mast, yes
b) aren't - aunt, yes
c) Pam - palm, no
d) have - halve, yes
e) putt - put, no
f) would - wooed, no
g) sure - shore, no
h) pour - poor, yes
i) saw - sore, no but surprisingly close.
j) won - one, yes
k) cot - caught, yes
l) balm - bomb, no
m) vary - very, no
n) marry - merry, no
o) marry - Mary, no
p) call - cool, no
q) wholly - holy, yes
r) witch - which, yes
s) tuna - tuner, yes
t) dew - Jew, no
u) undue - undo, yes
v) earn - urn, yes
w) fur - fair no

i grew up in new england and moved to the midwest a while ago. my boston accent is pretty much gone but it still slips out after i've had a couple of pops in me. i went back east to see family last autumn, i saw my younger sister for the first time since the '90s, the first words out of her mouth were "i hate your fucking accent." didn't realize i had one, it's not like i say "i wanna SAHsidge pizza" or whatever. i think i was just putting r's in correct places. my ex used to tease me about the way i said "saw him" which apparently comes out as "sawr rim". whatever, it's just words.

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor
j) won - one
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

Seattle area, born and raised/I perceive myself as accentless, it's the rest of you who are fucked up in the speech.

Apparently I have a Baltimorese accent, even though I've never been east of Denver.

Sundar, I mean, did you think I had much of a NYC accent?

Btw, I say "orange" like the woman's voice in Boards of Canada's "Aquarius." (Same initial vowel sound as the dude's voice, but he turns the word into two syllables: "or-inge.")

If that's the song with all the counting on it, to my (English) ears it sounds like "ornge" (just one syllable).

Yes:

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
f) would - wooed
h) pour - poor
j) won - one
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

Mid-west America, but have spent big chunks of my life in New York, Texas, and San Francisco as well. My accent is about as flat as it gets.

actually, scratch f) would - wooed. i read it wrong.

I can't believe people are saying One and Won so they sound the same.
One = 'Won'.
Won = 'Wun'.

David, do you never watch the telly or anything?

a)no b)yes c)no d)no e)no f)no g)yes h)yesish i)yes j)yes k)no l)no m)no n)no o)no p)no q)yes r)yes s)yes t)noish u)no v)yes w)no

David, if it makes you feel any better, I have no idea what the difference between "won" and "wun" is supposed to be.

I'm not sure I do either. And, no, I don't remember noticing you having any strong regional accent. But many co-workers or neighbours I've had from NYC/LI do.

I find it interesting that Canadian accents delight you. Can you identify one right away? (A number of people here have said they could do so as soon as I opened my mouth.) I can't always tell a Cdn accent from a neutral American accent. (Even the "ou" sounds aren't always a surefire way.) Like, that clip I posted doesn't sound that far removed from this (though it is different). It's markedly different (in almost every vowel sound) from this though.

the thing is there really are NYers (mostly BK/LIers) who speak the full stereotypical way. but most nyers don't. and most don't have the heavy accent that is still sub- the stereotype.

Well, a certain type of Cdn accent -- I don't necessarily remember you having one, but Bryan does. A prairie accent, I guess.

Same:
a) massed - mast, d) have - halve, j) won - one, k) cot - caught, l) balm - bomb, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, o) marry - Mary, q) wholly - holy, r) witch - which, v) earn - urn

Different:
b) aren't - aunt, c) Pam - palm, e) putt - put, f) would - wooed, g) sure - shore, h) pour - poor, i) saw - sore, p) call - cool, s) tuna - tuner, t) dew - Jew, u) undue - undo, w) fur - fair

My accent is a prety weird one... midwestern Ontario, form around lake huron. To hear the true weirdness of my accent, here are some other words that are homophones to me:

ask/ass, guest/guess, and to a lesser degree, cutting/cotton

You hate terminal consonant clusters.

same:

a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor
j) won - one
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
r) witch - which
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

diff:
b) aren't - aunt
c) Pam - palm
e) putt - put
f) would - wooed
i) saw - sore
g) sure - shore
l) balm - bomb
p) call - cool
s) tuna - tuner
t) dew - Jew
w) fur - fair

born & raised in Georgia, used to have an accent but now I don't so much

Same:
a) massed - mast
d) have - halve
h) pour - poor
j) won - one*
k) cot - caught
m) vary - very
n) marry - merry
o) marry - Mary
q) wholly - holy
u) undue - undo
v) earn - urn

* = it's very close but maybe slightly different?

Born in California, raised around Portland, Oregon. Parents both had heavy southern accents when I was growing up that have since mostly faded. Though I could never really even hear it, my friends were like DUDE YOUR PARENTS SPEAK LIKE HICKS etc. So that might have some influence?

Does no one in the US differentiate "poor" from "pour?"

(Apparently Cdn accents do vary west of NB. I'm trying to imagine how that "cutting"/"cotton" thing would work. Thought you were Ottawan, Will?)

I do.

poor = pour = pore

potentially catastrophic

poor = pour = pore /= potentially catastrophic, that is pronounced differently.

a, j, k and q.
Guttural scots

I can't believe people are saying One and Won so they sound the same ... One = 'Won'.
roffle

Same:

a) massed - mast, d) have - halve, h) pour - poor, j) won - one, r) witch - which, u) undue - undo, v) earn - urn

Different:

b) aren't - aunt, c) Pam - palm, e) putt - put, f) would - wooed, g) sure - shore, i) saw - sore, k) cot - caught, l) balm - bomb, m) vary - very, n) marry - merry, o) marry - Mary, p) call - cool, q) wholly - holy, s) tuna - tuner, t) dew - Jew, w) fur - fair

Non-regional American with a touch of New Jersey/New York.