Sean Penn in Gus Van Sant's Harvey "Milk" pic

this film is gonna rock.

meh. I hate Sean Penn.

whatevs, BALLwasher

gus van sand - classic.
late sean penn - dud.

"milk" - who knows

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

zeno otm

isn't all sean penn other than 'fast times' essentially 'late' sean penn?

for stoners, sure

A process loooooong in germination. Robin Williams was discussed in '92.

My wife is still wrangling to get a role as either lesbian protester #43 or Harvey's fag hag #11. She's got her outfit all picked out and everything.

so van sant has abondond the abstract form in favour of an obv. political drama?

thank fucking god.

'the abstract form' whuuuut? u mean boring alan clarke/bela tarr knock-offs.

Ten years from now he will do a shot-by-shot remake starring Zac Efron.

i disagree, xpost

anyway, he didnt do anything good except "will hunting" and "idaho" before that period imo.
so i hope it's a "new",surprising phase and not a "returning back" phase,which might be a failure.
but who knows.

btw,van sant is also a part of this movie "8", which feature 8 directors, with 8 segmants.
(another director on the project is,guuess who,sean penn!)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493101/fullcredits#directors

Zeno, u high. Drugstore Cowboy, Mala Noche and To Die For are all great. Cowgirls and the Psycho reshoot are his only real fuckups.

drugstore is just ok, the other 2 i didnt see.
cowgirls and psycho are fuckups indeed

"elephant" and "last days" on the otehr hand, are outstanding.
i wanna see "paranoid park"

Yeah, I haven't seen Paranoid Park, either. Am curious.

But you really oughtta check out Mala Noche. At least as good as anything else he's done. Criterion just put out a nice version.

i'll check it

"drugstore is just ok"

Crazy. He's never done anything half as good since.

Elephant is garbage. Didn't even bother with the Cobain nonsense.

to die for

there's nothing 'abstract' about his boring guilt-driven post-'finding forester' work.

way to predictably regurgitate the general Van Sant thread, guys

way to predictably regurgitate on it, Morbs

hold your lunch, fellas. sheesh!

in every fucking film thread ever...

lol

there isn't much else to discuss yet to be fair.

let's discuss milk.

I'm more curious what this film will have to say about Dan White than Harvey Milk actually.

well, Harris Savides is lensing it, so it should look good.

oh, and Victor Garber is playing Moscone.

geez I'd forgotten HS was also the DP on Zodiac

has anyone seen that harvey milk documentary from the 80s? that's supposed to be good.

savides loves his SF

I've seen it about a million times. It is good.

It also mostly avoids the mistake of making White out to be some sort of monster which it deserves credit for.

http://www.sfweekly.com/2008-01-30/news/white-in-milk/

Yeah I saw that. Welcome to Munich II (aka I'm not going to let facts get in the way of the moral I want to superimpose on these events.)

Precisely.

Man, reading that I just had a flashback to being a little kid in the Sierras when the news came through about the murders, which was only about a week after Jonestown, and being seriously intimidated by SF.

sean penn so crazy

I've never seen the (entire) Milk docufilm nor have I read any book-length bios, so I'll have to get back to you re Dan White.

If Jean-Pierre Melville had lived to make Munich, we'd all have gotten a good nap out of it.

I suppose the good laugh we got is better then.

I seem to recall accusations that Fincher's DV cop show deviated from some agreed-upon facts.

Yeah, apparently the bus lane on Geary St didn't exist in 1970. I was shocked too.

Anyway I let's stay away from the Munich topic. We disagree. I think everyone gets it.

The only point I would make about choosing to demonize or fictionalize White in the way that it seems like they might be choosing to do is that this is a real person who has a real family and real living children who are still trying to ya know live their lives despite this totally horrific event that happened and I can't imagine appreciate having White's mental illness and stresses fudged to make for high drama or whatever and frankly the REAL White is actually a lot more interesting than the repressed homo bullshit storyline that seems to be getting played with in the linked article. But hey that's just my take.

"...frankly the REAL White is actually a lot more interesting than the..."

The guy's scum who murdered two people in cold blood.

Murderers are people too (hence the rhapsodies over the nutso conclusion of the PT Anderson film).

c'mon, plenty of Zodiac-caseheads said they gamed that script to make Whatshisname the likely culprit (I admit, I don't give a shit).

"c'mon, plenty of Zodiac-caseheads said they gamed that script to make Whatshisname the likely culprit (I admit, I don't give a shit)."

I said they did that on the Zodiac thread!

"The guy's scum who because he murdered two people in cold blood."

Anyway this POV is still more defensible than making believe that the reason he killed make because of some psychosexual drama.

make, ahem, Milk

Jones, a veteran San Francisco gay activist, says the project is not a documentary and shouldn't be considered as one. "If we tried to explain exactly the politics of this city, the movie would be long, dull, and confusing," he says.

this is some seriously stupid shit. a "veteran activist" thinks city politics is boring and incomprehensible to the stupid masses - kill me now.

i mean yeah some politics is boring but the story as told in that article is totally straightforward and as alex says way more interesting than that stupid american beauty ripoff "twist."

Wait a sec -- how much detail of the politics of '70s SF do you think can be stuffed into a 2-1/4-hour film? OF COURSE gay politics is going to get primacy from GVS. Now, how much distortion occurs, we'll have to see.

The details in political strategy IS usually boring (to everyone but gabbneb & co). (xp)

Um. That is not a stupid thing to say, particularly when you are talking about turning real-life events into fictionalized entertainment. Do you think a movie about the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal should be a real-time cinema verite piece that exactly follows the transcripts of the hearings surrounding the Starr Report?

No no no I think that we should learn that the real reason Ken Starr was so obsessed with Clinton is because Starr has a tiny penis and feels a uncontrollable need to punish womanizers.

Cue lots of shots of Starr's naked buttocks staring down at his tiny member and cackling gleefully.

I intend to have that carved onto your tombstone.

I intend to make sure it's in at least one of the drafts of the Clinton Impeachment movie!

I'm just marvelling at the assertion that buttocks can stare.

I missed a pronoun there obv. I'm more amazed they can cackle gleefully!

Can anyone (or thing) cackle dolefully?

I'm just marvelling at the assertion that buttocks can stare.

You're not going to the right bars.

Probably Ken Starr's buttocks.

Can anyone (or thing) cackle dolefully?

Giuliani did it pretty well the last month or so.

Bob Dole.

a pineapple witch

I ran into an old friend working locations on this movie (they're shooting night for day interiors around the block from my house) last night and was glad I was not, like him stuck working in the rain on a cold evening.

there are few hollywood tropes I hate more than the "repressed homo murderer"

"We have to stop the madman killing all of these repressed homosexuals!"

lolol

http://www.flickr.com/photos/troublepup/2233690456/

James Franco: "After our kiss Sean texted Madonna and said, 'I just popped my cherry kissing a guy. I thought of you. I don't know why.' "

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/09/james-franco-is.html

I'm basically prepared for this one to merge everything bad about Brokeback Mountain with everything bad about Good Will Hunting.

but neither of those are biopics!

If it keeps any of the qualities of Last Days and Elephant, I'll be happy. I want a three-minute shot of Dan White eating a Twinkie while reading a Herb Caen column.

also, given E Hirsch's look, i'm not sure GVS will be ogling him with the camera quite as much as he did Matt Damon:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/hupersyphy/stuff/lucas-grabeel-emile-hirsch-11.jpg

also plz God, nothing like Last Days.

v short clip of the white night riots on youtube:

some of nbc news the night of murders:

a Van Sant movie with vulgarity like dialogue, jokes, and actorly flourishes would be most welcome.

man all those police cars on fire is kind of beautiful

as always...

but neither of those are biopics!

You're right. Now I expect this one to be far worse.

this made me cry the first time i heard it:

I have a feeling this is going to be amazing.

i am very excited about this movie. i saw a preview & it looked good !?

of course it was played right after a preview for the chihuahua movie, so whatevz.

i'm looking forward to this!

I'm still a skeptic, but I'm going to go see it.

http://www.towleroad.com/2008/10/first-look-new.html

I'm about 100 pgs into The Mayor of Castro Street, and am curious how much (if any) of the early stages of the film show Milk's change from Wall St financial analyst/Goldwaterite to SF hippie activist.

also never realized that gays in military getting dishonorable discharges processed thru SF helped turn it into a gay mecca.

the preview for this looked great. I R excited

also lol at one of Milk's key financial backers being the Castro's #1 pot dealer.

also never realized that gays in military getting dishonorable discharges processed thru SF helped turn it into a gay mecca.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:00 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

really? that's kinda fascinating

also, the way the 'gay invasion' was feared by the working-class Irish in the nabe in ways somewhat like racial integration elsewhere. (so Milk made his first political deals with Teamsters, firemen, etc)

You mean he compromised and dealt with other groups in order to ensure greater visibility and political possibilities? Who knew!

that IS fascinating about the gayz and the military! huh.

not here, Ned. I'm not Ralph Nader, you know.

a Van Sant movie with vulgarity like dialogue, jokes, and actorly flourishes would be most welcome.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, September 30, 2008 4:25 PM (3 weeks ago) Bookmark

what's with alf and the phrase 'actorly flourishes,' dude whips it out all the time

One of my Alfredian flourishes.

I wiould explain that there are all kinds of "compromises" to Ned if I could speak Elvish.

"dude whips it out all the time"

Preview does look promising.

Art direction looks brilliant, btw.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i28df3fc9f6707d147e35ae1e0e39ecb0

The political football will be kicked off when the movie premieres tonight in San Francisco and then put in play after the election. And when that happens, the studio will face a marketing dilemma: how to accommodate the gay-rights angle the core audience expects while appealing to mainstream filmgoers who might not be immediately moved to see a movie about the subject.

One example of those filmgoers: At a recent Vegas test-screening for a middle-class, straight audience, several senior citizens tried to leave after a gay love scene in the early moments but couldn't because they were trapped in the middle of a row (near Focus production chief John Lyons, in fact). The seniors eventually said they were happy that they stayed, but, like independent voters in an election contest, these are the viewers Focus must woo.

lol... trapped but happy

Is Penn wearing a prosthetic nose in this movie? Harvey had his fixed.

Curious to see extent the film will downplay some aspects of HM's personality that made him a successful pol, i.e., egomaniacal asshole.
(I do love that "asshole" was Milk's evaluation of Dianne Feinstein even 30 years ago.)

Nathan Lee: "No Béla Tarr abstractions here, no Leslie Shatz soundscapes - and no major improvement over The Times of Harvey Milk except insofar as talented movie stars enacting a colorful historical drama command attention, and this movie deserves it. It's the straightest thing in Van Sant's career, not unlike Ang Lee's Brokeback Mountain."

http://www.filmlinc.com/fcm/nd08/milk.htm

i was a little worried abt the obv oscar baiting potential of this movie but it does look pretty fn awesome

lol @ everyone having contemporary hipster steez - classic van sant flourish

? looks purty '70s to me.

ive def seen this guy skulking around williamsburg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee148/hupersyphy/stuff/lucas-grabeel-emile-hirsch-11.jpg

do not blame the Past for the Present

Isn't the Emil Hirsh character the AIDS quilt guy?

Pretty sure he actually looked like that.

o rly

Yeah you can see photos of him here:

http://clevejones.com/mainmenu.htm

UH

http://i38.tinypic.com/15hbb0h.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/33wtvmu.jpg

only one of these guys looks like hes in a shitty band

http://i38.tinypic.com/2jak9s0.jpg
hay lets go ta brunch

http://i37.tinypic.com/14sibrr.jpg
brunch sounds great

http://i34.tinypic.com/2569vsk.jpg
i will wear my new hoodie!

plz to post more James Franco pics, thks

http://www.towleroad.com/images/2008/10/13/milk2.jpg

this is a sweet shirt btw - lol harvey milk puts the super in supervisor

from Out:

Lance: Culturally, I thought it was interesting that no one seemed to be cringing or wiping their mouth or getting terrifically freaked out about playing a gay role.

James: Um, we did a little bit. I think Sean and I had the first kiss of the film, and there were like 200 people watching on Castro Street. I was a little nervous. And it was a long kiss.

Lance: That was the three-minute kiss out in front of the entire population of Castro Street, not shut down. Everyone in the Castro came out to watch James Franco and Sean Penn make out.

James: Armistead Maupin came down to watch! So that was weird. It’d be weird kissing a girl in front of all those people. After the first kiss, it broke the ice. And then after our kiss Sean texted Madonna -- his ex-wife, Madonna -- and said, “I just broke my cherry kissing a guy. I thought of you. I don’t know why.” And then she wrote back and said, “Congratulations.”

Lance: You broke Sean Penn’s gay cherry.

James: I did. I did. Now, wait, Lance. Let me think of something to ask you.

Lance: To ask me? They’re not taking my picture for the cover of Out magazine.

Everyone in the Castro came out to watch James Franco and Sean Penn make out.

lol

Denby likes.

I don't know whether it's funnier that Penn texts Madonna at all, or that he texted her THAT, or that it rhymes like a little Madonna rap.

Yeah I wonder how often he texts her, that doesn't seem real. "Robin is asleep and I'm bored. What r u wearing?"

Variety & THR have both given this glowing reviews... oscar buzz starting

it's going to be hard for reviewers to avoid noting the prescient nature of the "gay civil rights movement, just like now!" line. so i'm assuming it might be overrated a little. but it's difficult not to get excited if this is entertaining van sant is back

entertaining van sant

Good Will Hunting is less entertaining than Gerry.

paranoid park is teh best

no wai, elephant is

i should have put "entertaining" in quotes as regarded by the press as being less abstract - my own personal fav film of him is Elephant and I hate Good Will Hunting. But maybe it's the wrong word period, because how is Milk more "mainstream" From THR: Van Sant moves beyond his experimental filmmaking of the last half-decade for a restrained, unembellished approach. The style is classic filmmaking of the '70s, a film that watches and observes everything and everybody.

wai!

better storytelling / equal aesthetic-directorial action

that's our third go-round for the texting anecdote...

did anyone hear Franco do a full hour w/ Terry Gross last night? I can't stand her neurasthenic 'probing.'

Expecting a Gay History Lesson film to be as 'formally' interesting as Pvt Idaho or Gerry wouldn't make sense. Tho I remember maybe 15 years ago Penn was trying to develop a film where he'd play the '60s folksinger Phil Ochs and his attitude was "We may just do a day in his life. Why do ppl try to reduce entire lives into movies?"

"Why do ppl try to reduce entire lives into movies?"

excellent question

The benign answer, I guess, is it's the only way most people learn about them.

biopics are almost always terrible - so reductive

no more than "Cliff Notes adaptations of novels."

and of course there are cases of superior filmmakers defying the limits in both cases, as with Andrei Rublev or Great Expectations.

generally the less famous/exalted the subject the better

is Milk the first fiction feature made on the life of someone who was first the subject of an Oscar-winning documentary? There was The Eleanor Roosevelt Story, but ER has never had a solo theatrical gussyup, just TV dramas like that spate of Jane Alexander miniseries in the '70s.

Andrei Rubelev is so, so long though - hardly a typical film! Maybe The Last Emperor is another example. I can't think of too many more - does something like Queen Christina or even Elizabeth count? - but generally they do suck, or maybe I'm having a hard time getting past the recent Ray/ Walk the Line horridness

I guess my point about Andrei is that it approaches an artist's life the way the many Hollywood bios of artists never would. Same with US gangster bios (Bonnie & Clyde is something else entirely) compared with Salvatore Guiliano, where the guy isn't even hardly onscreen!

I'm encouraged that men seducing each other is a major background element in this film. Accounts of the ACT-UP heyday regularly mention the getting-laid element as a given; politics turns activist queers on.

The better to probe them neurasthenically.

If Prop 8 had not passed I just wonder if this would've been received slightly differently, but now it an aura of significance to it and there's even supposed to be someone midnight vigil/protest related to the screening here December 4th (early morning of the 5th) - which is also when that protest-coordinator/blogger wants all teh gheys to see the film:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/movies/22milk.html?_r=1

Proposition 8-related vigils have already occurred outside prerelease screenings in San Francisco and Los Angeles. Amy Balliett, a founder of jointheimpact.com, a clearing house for gay rights information, said on Friday that her site would urge its network of supporters to see the film on Dec. 5 at one of a list of “gay-friendly” theaters.

“Our goal is to make this movie one of the top three-grossing movies of the weekend,” Ms. Balliett said in an e-mail message.
Yet the unforeseen alignment between “Milk” and the gay-marriage ban — there was no Proposition 8 on any ballot when the director Gus Van Sant began shooting the film in January — also creates a conundrum for those Focus executives. How do they honor their movie hero’s feisty brand of confrontational politics without being consumed by them?

lol in other words "omg how do we make any money on this?" ... “The way movies work is not by pushing toward or appealing to a specific electoral position, but by changing the climate of opinion,” Mr. Schamus said.

And to push too hard, he cautioned, risks losing sight of what he sees as the main point of “Milk”: “There is actually ARE YOU LISTENING ACADEMY MEMBERS a great, old-fashioned American narrative movie here.”

all sorts of political footsie is being played around what the film is or isn't -- ie, its ending before the White trial and the SF riots the night he got convicted only of manslaughter. (which wd get in the way of uplift, but also likely wdn't fit the Life of the Martyr structure)

so is this opening in as many theaters as Transporter 3?

"If Prop 8 had not passed I just wonder if this would've been received slightly differently"

Differently maybe, but I think the aura of significance was always going to be there (admittedly my perception may be somewhat skewed.)

Gay activist David Mixner is worried that a Letterman-Franco interview typifies a "Brokeback joke" trivialization:

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2008/11/homoquotable-david-mixner.html

Letterman in unfunny gay joeks shockah.

And to push too hard, he cautioned, risks losing sight of what he sees as the main point of “Milk”: “There is actually a great, old-fashioned American narrative movie here.”

What will Mendhelson say? Presumably his NYRB piece was discussed on the Brokeback thread?

Of course, the obvious response is, maybe Brokeback didn't deserve to win the Academy Award. My boredom with gay jokes notwithstanding, I like dicta from the homo powers-that-be even less.

It deserved it more than Crash. I'm white, btw.

Sorry if this is being discussed elsewhere. I'm not really following the politics threads. But for some reason this is getting lumped in with Harvey Milk in the press:

http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/2008/11/prop-8-debate-c.html

As the Oscar buzz for Milk continues to grow, there is continued fallout over California's passing of the gay marriage ban known as Prop 8.

Like there's a causal relationship.

Yeah, Ann3 Th0mps0n can go fuck herself - I read that earlier blog of hers, wherein she posted:

I appreciate your outrage, Kim. I am not advocating sitting back or being well-behaved in any way. But winning the next phase in the same-sex marriage campaign--all over the country, where it's not getting very far at this stage--is about finding the right strategy, politics and PR. Call it marketing. Express your anger, protest, do what you have to do to make a difference. But be aware of other people's civil rights. Is targeting individuals who might lose their jobs as a result of their religious beliefs or political differences getting the movement where it needs to go? Perhaps a more benign approach to raising consciousness and revealing bigotry might work better. Building consensus about gay marriage seems more positive than alienating and punishing people. Do employees of arts organizations have to pass a politically-correct litmus test in order to keep their jobs? Must they agree politically with everyone on their board in order to do their jobs well? What if their religion opposes gay marriage? Should they go against their religion? We can object, argue, try to change their minds. But don't they have the right to disagree? This is starting to smack of "are you or have you ever been a communist?"

and dramatically undermines whatever point she was making (that she sort of had) with that last sentence. Right, the evil Gay Cabal is the new McCarthy! industry outrage at LAFF's Raddon = HUAC blacklist of thousands, they can't marry but Y R gettin they so MAD?!!

just grin and bear it, fags. be aware of other people's civil rights! frame those civil unions

What bothers me is the same people writing mock-concerned, news-less articles about the Milk distributor worrying about getting caught up in political crossfire are the same people who write sentences like "As the Oscar buzz for Milk continues to grow, there is continued fallout over California's passing of the gay marriage ban known as Prop 8".

this is opening in 36 theaters, don't know why I thought otherwise.

From the Salon review, blech I hate this shit:

"Black's screenplay leans pretty hard on the peculiar idea that White, a married ex-cop and ex-fireman from what was then an old-line, white Catholic neighborhood, was damaged and confused in a particular way -- that he was a closet case who was obsessed with Harvey Milk."

Yeah, the clips of Brolin's performance I saw in trailers hinted at this unfortunate Freudianism.

fwiw, Milk remarked to a friend "That guy's a closet case."

maybe he was irl

I thought this article about Di-Fi was pretty interesting:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/26/MNM514C75R.DTL&tsp=1

I didn't know Milk and White had a weekly coffee session in the Castro!

the full series - http://www.sfgate.com/harveymilk/

"fwiw, Milk remarked to a friend "That guy's a closet case.""

Yes and including that anecdote alone would be fine. Going further with it is pretty lame though.

Esp. since I think that remark says as much about Milk as it does about White.

gvs sees gays everywhere

JPEG of eye of Van Sant staring at the world, plz.

Your search - "eye of van sant" - did not match any documents. :(

I looked into Putin's eyes and all I saw was a G, a V and an S.

lol Armond:

He has the right to assume new political positions; to choose or refuse his alliances, or come into new awareness. But orthodoxy is the last inclination one feels in Van Sant’s other work—such lascivious, nihilistic, proudly degenerate art projects as Gerry, Elephant, Last Days and Paranoid Park. Van Sant’s tireless boosters have acclaimed the latter three films a “Death Trilogy” and the assassination climax in Milk, based in historical fact, seems an addendum to that macabre series. He counts down to mortality, with famous liberal-actor Sean Penn safely assuming the role of a now non-threatening historical figure. (What’s next? Denzel Washington scurrying about for Bayard Rustin scripts?) It’s strange when a film that finds apotheosis in death also poses as a memorial to social activism. There’s some dangerous slip into macabre commercialism. It recalls Spike Lee’s domestication of Malcolm X, inevitably weakening the subject’s subversiveness. No wonder the media—mainstream, gay, alternative—has already bowed down to Milk’s sentimental vision. Freaky Van Sant puts gay activism in the ultimate closet: the grave.

Ridiculous. Gee, how was the film supposed to end, then?

Sean Penn walking away from Dan White with the Twin Towers in the background.

"lascivious" is a pretty strange word for Gerry, even if that is the best Matt Damon's ever looked.

how was the film supposed to end, then?

well, as discussed above, with the post-verdict riots.

Or the candlelight march.

I didn't even realize Van Sant had tireless boosters.

yeah ending in the riots = terrific "memorial to social activism"

Last Days made me a fatigued booster.

it DOES end with the candlelight march, no? (i guess AW considers that gay activism's funeral)

xp: well, I was kinda startled to learn after reading The Mayor of Castro Street that Cleve Jones went on to initiate the AIDS quilt. cuz he comes off as a really strident NHB rabblerouser in the book, and I remember a common sentiment among AIDS activists in the early '90s was expressed in one homo paper opinion piece: "I hate the fucking quilt."

wow this movie was powerful - v touching this group of refugees just trying at first to scratch out a life for themselves in this one tiny neighborhood - i loved how all the main dudes were so genuine - they werent professional people - cleve jones was adorable and difficult harvey milk was intense and vulnerable - but they didnt try to reform or hide their eccentricities - they held a lot of conviction in the potency of being themselves

"fwiw, Milk remarked to a friend "That guy's a closet case.""

Yes and including that anecdote alone would be fine. Going further with it is pretty lame though.

Fortunately, the film didn't go any further with it.

not to mention the friends reaction was all oh whatever harvey

"Fortunately, the film didn't go any further with it."

This is what I've heard. I will see it this week most likely.

Sean Penn walking away from Dan White with the Twin Towers in the background.

lolomgwtf.

One thing I appreciated about the film was how unshy it was about depicting passionate kissing between two men. Interviews with J. Franco had led me to believe that there was one lip-locking scene between him and Penn, but there are at least four or five.

I finally saw The Times of Harvey Milk doc this weekend, and that indeed is what it's about, not HM's life per se -- the entire last half covers November '78, the White trial and the riots.

i just dled it - came w/like 3 hours of bonus update stuff too

yah, I dled it too. Any reason not to watch it before Milk?

I probably seeded you, jhosh (no homo).

lool

i really enjoyed milk w/o knowing much abt him - havent watched the doc yet tho so who knows

Yeah, before the film, I sort of assumed that Milk became a martyr simply because he was an openly gay politician who was slain because of that fact; I didn't know anything about his outspoken support of gay rights and his involvement in the movement both inside and outside of SF.

maybe best GVS since "Pvt Idaho," Penn since "Dead Man Walking."

last 2 gvs are best gvs imo

"maybe best GVS since "Pvt Idaho," Penn since "Dead Man Walking.""

Since Sweet and Lowdown is best Penn since Carlito's Way, we may have to agree to disagree on this one.

best penn since carlitos way

what, for the first time, Alex?
I like him in S&L fine -- he makes the movie.

Carlito's Way is one of his amusing tic-ridden performances. This goes way deeper.

Anyone read about what the basis of the scene where White comes up, drunk (?), to Milk at his birthday party? or is there any? Brolin has really been on a roll with No Country, W and this.

I thought the first scene btwn Penn and Hirsch was paricularly brilliantly staged, written and acted.

agreed milk is deeper but <3 carlitos way yoga flame forever all time and thats just the way it is

yoga flame? dnw

yoga flame is an expression some ilxors use to denote awesomeness

yoga flame vs. yoga fire

this is another reminder of why i loathe the AV Club's precious ironic contrariness:

The Onion (A.V. Club) Scott Tobias
It's a little disappointing to see Van Sant dial back into mainstream respectability. Had he evoked Harvey Milk's life with the poetry that he did Kurt Cobain's, Milk might have been something special.

lol

I thought the first scene btwn Penn and Hirsch was paricularly brilliantly staged, written and acted.

I liked it a lot, too -- I just wish the flirtatiousness Hirsch brought to this scene carried over into the rest of his time on-screen.

dude wtf no homo but srsly emil hirsch was the cutest lil person in that movie

this is another reminder of why i loathe the AV Club's precious ironic contrariness:

The Onion (A.V. Club) Scott Tobias
It's a little disappointing to see Van Sant dial back into mainstream respectability. Had he evoked Harvey Milk's life with the poetry that he did Kurt Cobain's, Milk might have been something special.

lol

― Vichitravirya_XI, Saturday, December 6, 2008 5:30 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

hahah yes wtf lol indeed thats one club i hav no interest in being a member of

sarcasm jhoshea?

no srsly that cobain movie was not v good

if this movie WAS told in a more lyrical stylee or whatever it would dilute any impact. if anything i just felt anger that Focus didnt release this before the election, as others have also said

Do you really think it would've had enough impact to swing votes in CA? (Were the people who voted yes on Prop 8 going to see this movie anyway?)

No.

i'VE SEEN LAST dAYS TWICE AND REMEMBER PRECISELY NOTHING

curt digs around in the woods for buried heroin - a salesman comes to the house (best scene) - various hangers on behave poorly - kim gordon attempts an intervention - courtney finds body (exterior shot)

you know i pretty much enjoyed the hell out of that movie tbh - it had some srsly lame aspects to it tho

I'm trying to imagine how the Harvey Milk story done Last Days-style would be anything other than the most ridiculous film ever.

I really liked Last Days, but yeah, that's kinda fucking stupid.

i'D PROB LOVE IT IF i SAW IT SOBER, BUT A MOVIE ABOUT A JUNKIE SHOOTING HIMSELF SEEMS LIKE A DUMB THNG TO WATCH SOBER

> (Were the people who voted yes on Prop 8 going to see this movie anyway?)

Um, you can't presume that only weirdo Black Mormons Who Don't Watch Movies voted yes or etc. I know "regular Californians" who voted yes that are likely to see this film (in SoCal, everyone sees the Oscar-buzz movies since they're promoted so much) and you never know, perhaps it would have persuaded a few. If anything, it would have really motivated the No on 8 foot soldiers to get out there and do more (make more fone calls, done more campaigning) in a way that still might've made a difference

Of course, it's futile to speculate now

rest of film, Hirsch reminded me too much of Bruce McCulloch!

so a few things...

1) Emile Hirsch is great in this film, and I felt like his character was the most flirty and fun throughout, but also the most 'contemporary'-- into queerness all around, not just a silly old faggots' club. ("Silly Old Faggots Club" should be the next ilx gays thread). Also, he has some of the best one-liners in the movie, like when he talks about getting hammered at The Stud and the line about the Tenderloin smelling like piss, as the latter is true to this day.

Also, I am thoroughly in love with him, and have been ever since 'Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys.' So my bias is clear.

2) I believe the film was released when it was for historical reasons-- they couldn't release it on Thanksgiving (which would have been the 30th anniversary of Milk's assassination), so they released it the day before, which makes perfect sense. As far as whether it would have made a difference in terms of Prop 8, I don't really think so. It is very telling that when Milk's strategists and friends are filling out the county map of California for the Prop 6 vote, most of the counties that voted "No" on 6 in '78 voted "No" on 8 in '08, and most that voted against "Yes" on the gay marriage ban in '08 voted "Yes" on the discriminatory Briggs Initiative in 1978.

3) My main complaint with 'Milk' is that it was too tame, and could have pushed the issues in a much more palpable way. I also tend to question the complacency of certain audiences in watching the film, or the unthinking element...for example, hardly anyone talks about how a shop like Milk's could never exist in the Castro nowadays, or that Milk would probably be slightly disgusted at what the Castro has become-- a veritable Gay Disneyland that is more about BUYING TONS AND TONS OF SHIT ALL THE TIME than giving a flying fuck about your fellow fag. The films' references to hustling on Polk Street, as well as references to gay life in SoMa and the TL, are much more immediately palpable to anyone familiar with gay life in San Francisco, so why not have a scene or two in those locations?

That said, great movie overall. Want to take my parents to see it.

("Silly Old Faggots Club" should be the next ilx gays thread).

co-sign

i'm very excited to see this movie

>most of the counties that voted "No" on 6 in '78 voted "No" on 8 in '08, and most that voted against "Yes" on the gay marriage ban in '08 voted "Yes" on the discriminatory Briggs Initiative in 1978.

The clear difference being LA county, which was not expected to go no in the film but did, and was not expected to go yes this november but did by less than half a percentage point

My main complaint with 'Milk' is that it was too tame

See, I thought it was surprisingly non-tame for the Great Man Bio formula. ie, showing the SF cops beating the shit outta gay bar patrons bcz they can (something we only hear about from the straight labor activist in Times of Harvey Milk), showing Milk reading the political riot act to Mayor Moscone, implying that the SFPD blackmailed White into taking back his Supervisor resignation, etc.

Nathan Lee points out in his Film Comment article that we don't see any of Milk's "bathhouses and pot" recreation til he gives 'em up to be a politico. Well, the film didn't have time for that; it had other things to do, all it needed was to mention it.

the movie is too clean,"right" and well acted to be considered a bad one.on the other hand theres nothing too remarkable about it either, and Van Sants doesnt take almost any risks with the direction.
and thats kinda surprising (and disappointing to a point), comparing it to Van Sunt's latest works.
in a way, this could be a relatively good oliver stone political film.but only relatively.

I liked that he dropped in a few Van Santisms, esp the Elephant 360-shot and the assassin walk tracking-shot.

If Last Days was "risk," I'm fine w/ this staidness (for this subject).

those should probably be referred to as Tarr-isms, no?

he steal from Tarr technicaly of course, but the impressions (and the narrative effects while using them)are all his own

Paranoid Park by far the best of his Inertia Trilogy.

..and his best movie

Last Days is the only one I don't like.

is it really called the Inertia Trilogy? that's cool

when we met for drinks last week, I suggested the moniker.

I prefer Elephant of his Gerry thru Paranoid Park run. That film sunk into my bones.

This movie was pretty gay.

Oh?

I mean yeah,it was kinda faggy.Nothing like The Fast and the Furious.

heath ledger is in this right?

The Advocate decries Penn's deplorable politics.

I was gonna post the Nation thing elsewhere -- sure he's a little starstruck by Chavy and Raul, but he admits he couldn't write his article in Cuba. Plus there's some actual news in the Raul chat.

Getting blasted by The Advocate is no discredit, I hope HRC is next.

While Penn nary has a word of criticism about genuine tyrants and terrorists, last year he delivered a speech naming senior American government officials as “villainously and criminally obscene people”

Now who's being naive, Kay?

That part sounded very Corner-esque.

haha

fuckin' "professional" post-Clinton homojournalism

'inertia trilogy' is great.
last days doesn't work because the ambiguity and aimlessness of stuff like gerry jars if it has to be pitched against your existing schema and perceptions, as is the case with already knowing who kurt cobain is, what's going to happen, that slumping around his garden is a digression from the dayjob etc. it works perfectly in the other stuff because you're getting that kieslowski-esque ambiguity of seeing some of a situation without the expectation of context or resolution, instead just snapshots. i think this aesthetic was deliberately shelved to make milk accessible and effective politically. his last film was christopher doyle - whoever said upthread that he hadn't taken risks is correct, but it's so that he could make a popular film that would actually engage beyond preaching to the choir etc.

"he hadn't taken risks is correct, but it's so that he could make a popular film that would actually engage beyond preaching to the choir "

also,he did it before (will hunting..) so he knows how to do it well,
the peculiar thing is that the range between his experimental films to his very very mainstream one's is very big.maybe too big?! - i think he could make Milk better if he did take some risks -
it would improve the movie and it wont hurt it's popularity, if it was done in moderation .but maybe Van Sunt was too afraid?!

I really wdn't put this in the "very very" mainstream category w/ a mundane fairy tale like GWH, or that Sean Connery thing I never saw. This is a pretty politically sophisticated film compared to dross like Frost/Nixon.

You're the man now, dog.

btw, I think tactics like keeping Moscone's murder offscreen constitutes "risk" by H'wood standards, to say nothing of having your hero infatuated with floundering sad cases like the guy Diego Luna plays.

is this movie too mainstream for yr avant garde sensibilities zeno - im not sure what youre trying to say

Milk was a mainstream figure! He won an election and staged media events around dogshit cleanup!

and the movie is v good

it's my point of view.
and i don't watch too much mainstream,yes.
but the "risks" the movie does take remain small anecdotes,not sure about their signicance to the final product.

i didn't say it was bad

Loved this movie. If I ran an arthouse, I would screen it as a double feature with Zodiac.

Maybe this has been discussed elsewhere, but the scene where Milk is handed the anti-Prop 6 flyer and calls it "shit and masturbation" and says "This is a coward's response to a dangerous threat" for not including the word "gay" or including any gay people is a pretty great critique of the anti-Prop 8 campaign.

....before the fact.

Just watched this and liked it a lot. Thought the performances, direction and look of the film across the board were excellent. Diego Luna's Freddie Prinze-doppelganger-look was pretty hilarious when he first appeared.

Freddie Prinze as an imbecilic Mexican houseboy

also surprised this been posted here yet:

This was a great movie!

Sean Penn has not been this likeable in a role since Jeff Spicoli.

I might have to stop hating him, which I have done ever since he defended Jude Law at the Oscars. I mean really, who defends Jude Law?

a jude lawyer?

You are a treat.

God, that Advocate article pissed the living daylights out of me. CAPITALIST GAYS UNITE AROUND HRC AND BUYING HAIRCARE PRODUCT.

really, fuck mainstream gay culture. it disgusts me-- i think that was possibly the worst aspect of watching this film. the audience made me want to vom in their orgiastic self-congratulation.

That is like one main reason I would not want to be gay. The other is the public is a bunch of backwoods mong lunkheads. But, like, yeah, what table said.

I got on the phone with my mom afterward and was like, "Mom, gay people need civil rights so bad! Our country is so bigoted! In the future, this will all be a shameful embarrassment, but I want that future to be now!" And she was kind of like, "...?"

my fear about the film was that it would fall into the overly sentimental and press the syrupy "hope" thing too much, but it did it just enough to be completely effective and moving. there wasn't anything corny about this and the performances were so incredibly good throughout. I hardly ever see new films in the theater but I'm glad I did go see this.

I had a guy come over into my apartment to see if they wanted to film in it, but he said our kitchen was too modern. They also filmed outside on my block but I never saw anything cool or any famous people. Faggots!

http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/2008/12/harvey-milk-doc.html

The doc is required viewing.

watched the doc last nite - kinda meh too much talking head time w/not enough variety of heads - didnt have a lot of the important players - not really that informational either - didnt learn that much that wasnt in milk - there was some nice old footage tho - funny to see penn played milk way more effeminate than he was

They made a conscious decision not to include 'important' talking heads, which is fine w/ me.

Granted I saw this at a theater in one of the more liberal Chicago suburbs, but this was sold out all day yesterday. Went to see a matinee around 3, but found out all showings were sold out until the 7:10 one which we grabbed 2 of the last 4 seats for.

Anyway, I really liked this. Whoever said Penn hasn't been this likable in ages is OTM.

ctrl+f wayne coyne wtf?!

"Quite an actor Sean Penn, quite an actor. [Pause] Amazing. [Pause] And now I'm an asshole. Like Russell Crowe. Because I'm not as smart as Sean. [Pause] Quite an actor. [Pause] Amazing actor. I've loved you in Milk, I thought what you did with that role was incredible. We've known you as an actor who doesn't smile very much. And the fact that you smiled as much as you did in this film is amazing. Truly incredible. You are an amazing actor. You are going to get the Oscar. Because you smiled so much."

http://www.riskybusinessblog.com/2009/01/at-new-york-film-critics-circle-brolin-being-brolin.html

ha. was brolin still in character?

finally saw this last night, enjoyed it a lot. penn's great, obviously. and i liked how much fun van sant had recreating the birth of the castro. (seems to me it's really as much a biopic of the movement, although obviously milk gives it a natural focus.) for something you know is going to end badly, it's all really lively and breezy, even with its sad digressions (diego luna). i love how you don't need to do anything at all to those anita bryant clips to make her totally loathsome. no re-enactment could have captured her awfulness as well as just showing the real thing.

also was i imagining it, or were a lot of the real people they showed in the concluding snapshots better-looking than the people who played them?

Diego Luna def better looking than his real world counterpart.

true. but he's better looking than most people.

I watched this yesterday mid-afternoon at a screening attended primarily by about 20 old ladies, but as soon as the ugly mug of Anita Bryant popped on screen, everyone hissed like a bunch of queens ... it was fantastic.

Anyway, terrific film. We were all sobbing at the end ... many tissues breached.

pretty good movie. penn great. brolin good. franco decent esp. after he dropped the franco-isms. hirsch unfortunately tripped the hell out of my sensitive anachronism-meter along with a lot of costumes. tosca kinda gimmicky, but hey, tosca.

who and where is this tosca?

here's a bit of a story for you:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1013753/board/nest/125897382

*Spoilers Below*

This was a pretty dang good movie, but the audience I saw it with made it less enjoyable. Now this isnt the normal, talking/texting durring a movie, but just rude and offensive behavior. Like when Franco and Penn kissed more than one group would yell "eww" or "f*gs". But the end is what really drove me crazy. Parts of the audience cheered and clapped when Milk was murdered, and booed when the movie was over.

Now this isnt only rude to the movie, but the culture the movie is based off of. There are just some movies certain people shouldnt see.

he clarified that with It was at an AMC in Denver. Not my favorite choice, but it wasnt playing anywhere else at that time

ain't that Ameica, you and me?

I was pretty disappointed. It might make a difference which you see first, but as a fan of the doc, I found the biopic a lot less about making common cause with people who might otherwise be homophobic, and more about flexing political muscle; less about the elation that comes from common victories in a movement and more about Harvey getting high on being a big shot. And then there was all the love-life stuff, which seemed to be there as a way of saying "we're not glossing his sexuality," which would be fine if all the scenes were as compelling as the best ones with Franco, but mostly it just edged out political details like the dog poop being planted at that photo op, or Jimmy Carter having to be persuaded and reminded to say something against that anti-gay ballot measure. I would have liked to see less standard biopic montage, more representative dramatic scenes with some spark. But I don't think Van Sant is interested in or excited by politics.

Mainly, I just didn't find Sean Penn convincing as either a compelling political leader and speaker or a charismatic lover. It's something about his darting voice and eyes. The real-life Harvey Milk could focus and soothe--he had a great voice. I felt like I was trapped with Penn's lawyer in Carlito's Way for two hours. Penn was really good in the phone scenes, oddly enough, and in all the moments involving Dan White, which turned out to be the emotional heart of the film (Josh B was fantastic), where the doc's emotional pull really lies in those interviews with not-well-known people affected by Harvey, and in the candlelight march.

That Milk/White scene outside the birthday party is the best in the movie.

Ebert predicts that this one is taking Best Picture.

Not likely, unless Ernest Borgnine and Tony Curtis are really sick.

I'm going to try predicting the winners entirely on the basis of my feelings.

Mainly, I just didn't find Sean Penn convincing as either a compelling political leader and speaker or a charismatic lover.

He isn't a charismatic lover, as it turns out. Almost all of his lovers either wanted to or successfully killed themselves.

I found the biopic a lot less about making common cause with people who might otherwise be homophobic, and more about flexing political muscle

Agreed. Maybe I'm still optimistic enough, but I think the interview footage with the police union guy in the doc (the one who said he used to think it was fair and just to abuse gay people in the street) is alone worth the cumulative moments of GVS's version.

The documentary was just OK, but the police union rep footage was unforgettable.

totally waht a cool old school no bullshit guy

If you think the doc was only just OK, Alf, I fully expect you to join me as one of the (relative) Milk skeptics.

but as the doc's director stated, it's about The Times, not Milk.

I like it fine, it's the best of the Best Pic nominees, etc etc.

Oh, well then I'm so disappointed, etc etc.

i thought the doc was pretty bad - luvd milk tho

It's a relief to discover that Van Sant can be didactic, yet is still smart enough to leaven it with his usual imagistic filigrees. I do like Franco as man-toy more than Jake Gyllenhaal though, and the mustachio is a much better fit.

Really enjoyed this. I thought Sean Penn was awesome.

What was wrong with the doc? No really. What did the movie do better than the doc? Seriously. No, really.

If I were closeted, the doc would make me want to come out. The movie would just make me feel cold and alienated.

Most of my gay friends IRL hated the GVS version, btw.

but they probably like, uh, that music you like too, right?

i said this up thread but the doc was basically like 6 mostly not that interesting people talking w/o even giving that much insight in to the situation - couldve interviewed more people been more informational had more archival footage been make in a more dynamic style etc

Could not disagree more, but I've accepted that you and I will never see eye to eye.

Mildly embarrassed to say that I've never seen the doc.

The doc makers chose those six very carefully to demonstrate his effect on "rank and file" activists.

also, it was pretty damn low-budget; that's why so much of the archival stuff was from one TV station.

yah i guess the problem might be that im not really that interested in the activist angle - wouldve liked to have seen a more detailed approach to his story - i didnt get the impression they put much effort in to researching the movie - i went in wanting to know more abt harvey milk and came out not much the wiser - and basically all i knew was from seeing milk and reading wikipedia

Yeah, but the doc is not really intended as a huge expose of Milk. It's about a very specific period of his public life and I think it explores that pretty well.

I mean I'm not really interested in Milk as a person, his bio or whatever. There doesn't seem to be much to him. But as a very public figure at the center of a larger movement, I think his story and how it affected that movement is pretty involving.

i dont think it even does that tho - its certainly told less abt the important players and social/political milieu of that era than milk did - there was a lot of people talking abt how important he was but not in a v cohesive manner

So you were looking for his overarching lasting effect or something? Dude was a city supe in SF not Gandhi.

no i was just lookin for more facts and story really

Facts about what? Him? The inside politics of SF?

Guy was only a factor in elected politics for about a year so it's not like there is much story to story there.

hirsch was the best actor in this

Agreed! I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought that.

how is Milk's journey from closeted Goldwaterite financial analyst to nation's most hated and loved gay activist (in about a decade) not interesting?

but icey, for more facts you'll have to read the Shilts book.

see that just seems a bit excessive

Hirsch was great in it (i mentioned this upthread, too).

Hirsch was unquestionably the best actor in this.

penn was best / hirsch was cute

Dare I say Penn seemed too weirdly "conceptual"? I dare.

what was his concept? (I think the accus of "swishier than Milk" is a little offbase)

(btw Eric, the funny thing about what you found to be Milk's bareknuck politics in the film is that the tape-recorded 'will' is turned into an autobiography, instead of 'If I get killed, don't let any of THESE fuckers take my place...')

I don't know what Penn's concept is, but his character feels jarringly less lived in than any of the supporting cast. (Although maybe that's the point; H.M. was born too early to ever be fully comfortable in his skin, et al.)

exquisite

gorgeous, technically virtuoso, all that good stuff but much much more

^i agree

I saw it last night again. It's not a great film, and I wish Van Sant had spent more time on Milk working with the other supervisors: I wanted to know just what kind of a politician he was, and how his peers regarded him as such.

But I left, again, most impressed by Emile Hirsch. It's a starmaking performance.I forget who said upthread that Van Sant's blocking of his first scene with Penn is masterful.

lol just post lil guy to ws and move along

yeah dunno wht you like alfred but gotta say this is a great film and I'm no santstan

xxp: nah, Hirsch is already a star, and played more fully drawn characters in Lords of Dogtown and Into the Wild.

Eh, I dunno. The 'starpower' was of a much lower wattage in those other pics (I liked him fine in ITW), whereas "Milk" has been seen by more people and he's playing to them.

in this film
sean penn > josh brolin > emile hirsch/james franco

ughnto the wild

then again I like actors who are known for underplaying suddenly taking a histrionic part and showing how years of subtlety pay off.

sounds more like "it's all downhill after this"

(really idiosyncratic film crix puttin Speed Racer on their top 10 lists)

i didn't really believe hirsch's character, but that was probably a problem with the writing rather than hirsch's performance.

The writer may have written himself into Hirsch's character a tad, but I've definitely settled on his performance being the best in the lot. Of the four getting most touted for Oscar nods (Penn/Brolin/Hirsch/Franco), I'm most perplexed by the love for Franco (unless it's residual lust).

Loved Into the Wild and him in it, but that's because I think he got across the spoiled preciousness and self-absorption of the character without making him entirely unsympathetic. I found him painful to watch in Milk, but maybe that's what the film was going for there too.

the best performance in this was Alison Pill as Anne Kronenberg, i wish she had more screen time. Penn and (especially) Brolin are both very good. i wasn't convinced by Hircsh's performance really but Diego Luna was definitely the worst thing here. i thought his preformance was horrible. I mean obviously he's quite a warped character but isn't he supposed to be likeable to an extent at first?

having said that i did like the movie a lot.

Scholtes otm

Kind of dawning on me how weird it is that almost all the chatter I've heard about this movie is which supporting actor is the best.

perhaps that Castro block is the best supporting actor. Restoring it from its Gay Disneyland facade was no small task.

"I’ve come here tonight to speak not only for myself but on behalf of the thousands of gay men and women, many nameless, faceless and forgotten, who were, over the course of the last fifteen years, hired to write a screenplay about the life of Harvey Milk...."

http://www.filminfocus.com/article/tony_kushner_on_milk

I liked it.

Don't understand the Salon guy's point above about the screenplay leaning heavily White repressed homo stuff either. Didn't see much of that at all (outside of Milk's comment which as pointed out above is laughed at by those around him.)

I haven't read anything about GVS and Black's thoughts on the closet theory, but the general consensus seems to be there's no understanding what exactly triggered White beyond thwarted ambition.

I know quite a few people who knew White personally from an early age and general consensus was that he was always had an temper bordering on the insane. Also I don't think it was so much thwarted ambition as much as just utter frustration. Being a city supe was a thankless job in 1978 (also payless as well).

after reading Mayor of Castro Street I was wondering during the inauguration if Feinstein still has a gun in her purse.

(oh not post-9/11, poor thing)

The worst(best?) thing about Milk was the constant reminder that this horror set her career in motion.

Milk's career also set the horror that is her hair in motion too.

Are you implying they used the same hairdresser?

Duh, that Milk was her hairdresser.

I thought so.

but who's been buffing that helmet the last 30 years?

As Oscar voting is taking place right now, won't Milk be further hurt by the dampened post-election Savior vibe?

loved loved loved this film.

none of the criticisms here really make any sense to me -- i thought there was just the right balance of politics and personal life, and penn was great. i can't remember the last best picture nominee i thought was this good.

Hilton Als' mixed review in the NY Review of Books.

good movie!!!!!

ehh its ok, pretty watchable, stirring at times, everyone in it is good but such a biopic in some ways (the kid who calls him, the last poignant phone calls that resolve all the relationships the night before he dies... pretty lame script imo)

ya but the screenwriter was pretty cute so

I saw this the other day. I dunno if it was because the two movies I saw before it were Notorious (urgh but at least lol) and Watchmen (urgh i want to kill myself and there is still like 4 hours left) but I just fell in love with this movie; even cried at the end.

I liked Denis O'Hare.

i never understood this automatic "groan biopic" reaction a lot of ppl have, really.

Yeah -- nobody said "groan, Western" in 1959.

people were making better westerns in 1959 than they are biopics now

and actually, im sure there were a lot of people who didn't like westerns back then. to me this is not a genre i enjoy. i find they are almost always way too on the nose and the stories, by fact of being based on real events, are rarely satisfying.

Right -- the point is they are exceptions in genres we don't care about, and this is one.

ya and i liked it except for the hamhanded stuff it had to do to make its plot work - which all biopics kind of have to do

i find a lot of biopics enjoyable but since they tend to bounce around from highlight to lowlight and back it's not especially interesting as a genre. stories based on real events or a real period without a singular strong focus or "biopic" style thing are stories that work better for me. (goodfellas, for one!)

also: the right stuff

my problem with biopics is usually structure and pacing. most of them just feel kind of even, and "and then what happened was..." for two hours.

The Right Stuff isn't remotely a biopic, it's the history of a mythology.

except for the hamhanded stuff it had to do to make its plot work

Regular folks call this "entertainment." Did you see the grosses of I'm Not There?

s1ocki, I believe the Shilts book had all those phone calls (incl from kid in wheelchair), they were factual.

i never said it was a biopic, doc

ya i know

Regular folks call this "entertainment." Did you see the grosses of I'm Not There?

s1ocki, I believe the Shilts book had all those phone calls (incl from kid in wheelchair), they were factual.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, April 1, 2009 2:46 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

since when do you rep for the masses morbs?

i know the calls were real but those scenes felt like a lifetime movie

i'm just saying the structure of a big-studio film (that isn't a poptasia by Todd Haynes) about a man's life is going to adhere to a certain template; Van Sant's was fresher than I expected.

ya it's just the tension when the shapelessness of a real life is bent to fit a traditional hollywood dramatic structure that often feels kinda strained to me.

at least they didnt add a dead brother

it was so pretty tho! and everyone dressed so well!

1) San Francisco + Harris Savides
2) gays

s1ocki, Milk's life was kinda dramatic in a three-act way.

whoops
http://www.thesword.com/index.php/celebritynipple/2798-hardcore-gay-fuck-shots-of-oscar-winner-dustin-lance-black.html

nsfw obv

hardcore gay fuck shots

he's already issued an apology for having unprotected sex I guess

kind of attractive in a gay clone way, which is to say, doesn't do it for me

lol hardcore gay fuck shots

saw these the other day. co-sign with elmo.

the statement DLB released doesn't make clear whether the unprotected sex pictured was actually truly unsafe -- he just says that the message the images send is "misleading." i mean, it could be the case that they were taken in the context of a monogamous long-term relationship which later went south, in which case i wouldn't want to be party to some ex-lover's campaign of defamation of dude.

Gus Van Sant's Fuckshot

i think he's pretty cute tbh

moreso w/out clothes

can i just say that i wld wear all fames francos clothes in this pretty much

uh james franco

Watched this last night and thought it was pretty good. Penn was excellent and I love Franco in pretty much anything. I cried at the end too a hoy a hoy.

am pretty selective abt when i love franco, this n f&g really just

im trying to clear up my harddrive so im watching all the movies that have been clogging it up to delete them. I re-watched this tonight.

Didn't remember it being so teal and orange but i guess that's what the teal and orange thing is, its only annoying once you notice it. I remember this movie being more attractive than it seemed. Weird that the crazy trite elements of the screenplay werent dumped a bit more, i mean the it gets better kid in the wheelchair was like a very special episode of boy meets world or something. But yeah theres this weird collision of van sant the populist and van sant the experimentalist in a way that doesnt really happen in his other movies. Little gimmicks like the shutter-pausing archive footage and the hockney ref seems a bit playful for such an obvious white elephant canon style movie.

Idk tho, im not normally a sucker for big formula-driven biopic things but I liked how they didnt separate out the nobleness of *the cause* from like bathhouses and tight jeans. it stays kindof attractive and sexy despite the "historical weight" partic at the moment of its prop eight issue pic. release date. idk moreso it made me feel connected to larger narratives which is a nice thing. james franco is majorly hot in it and more and more i gen think of him as a bit of a ratface.

it is kindof baffling how all these dudes wanna bang sean penn in it tho, they should have explained that

power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, i hear

ask me about this movie, and one of the first things i picture is alison pill's hair

jaymc how many movies are you watching this evening

also yes for sure

this movie was impossible to hate but also... not very good or memorable? the opening newsreel footage was the best thing in it.

xp
Saw this quite a while ago and the residue of the movie in my memory is that it was good, but unexceptional, follows the biopic conventions pretty faithfully, and made Milk seem very likeable. The ending, of course, I knew going in, so it was not a major impression.