Salvia Divinorum (C or D)?

shit my neighborhood liquor store just started selling this stuff. i guess i have to get some.

ha.

I tried this once and got lost in a painting for about an hour.

My friend calls it "the table drug" because we bought some in Amsterdam and the smart shop gave us an info sheet describing the effects and one of them was "you may feel yourself becoming an inanimate object, such as a table."
Definitely don't try it alone. Once I was alone and bored, smoked some and spent the next 8 minutes/eternity thinking it had turned me into a schizophrenic who was frozen and mute and all my friends would never know what had happened to me because I would never be able to speak again. Total bug out.
I'm saying: dud, unless you are a shaman or someone who believes that they are a shaman.
Believing you are a shaman is also kind of a dud in my book.

The last time I tried this (maximum dose, three years ago) I thought someone had replaced everything in my apt with an exact replica, then a live tiger walked in and I found myself in a cold, green prison cell for a reeaally long time. I escaped by remembering the nintendo patterns hidden in trees and I after I walked out of white fire the only thought in my head was: "Pink Floyd is kinda didactic." Harsh anti-human vegetable god stuff, but hey, it's there. I still have 2/3 of the bottle left if anyone wants it.

Believing you are a shaman is also kind of a dud in my book.

-- saudade, Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:34 AM (7 minutes ago)

See, at the time I did. My experience was totally cool.

wasn't there someone on ILX who had a story about a friend dreaming they were a background tile in NES Contra for 2 years?

"Pink Floyd is kinda didactic."

Hey, you came back from the other side with great insights!

also I want to try this stuff

I remember reading that somewhere xpost.

also I want to try this stuff

-- Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:43 AM

Be careful. Have a soothing friend with you.

Cause like, I'm one of a half dozen people I know that's tried it and I'm the only one that had anything approaching a positive experience.

i tried it, but i don't think i took enough cuz it just made my mouth feel funny. maria reverted to childhood though. for like three minutes. i mean she reverted to childhood more than usual. (she's such a baby.)

This sounds like the kind of shit that would break me permanently.

I've had bad trips on dirtweed, so this ain't happening.

I was talking to a friend of mine tonight who smoked this and felt that the universe was closing in on itself from the bottom right and top left of their field of vision, and they were going to die imminently. Fuuuucked up. At least it only lasts a few minutes.

aww god, i had fun with this stuff. i got caught in a time-loop, then ended up with a painfully raging erection.

this sounds like doing a whippet after smoking a bowl and drinking a bottle of Robitussin - aka some seriously Insane Clown Posse trailer shit

and i don't mean huffing a whip-it nitrous canister - i mean having sexual intercourse with a small dog

there are plenty of ugly burnout losers videotaping their trips on it and then putting them on youtube if you wish to live vicariously through these ugly burnout losers' totally awesome psychoactive experiences

i'm there!

by that i mean i'm loading up youtube as we speak

I have a bunch of this sitting on a shelf, its probably not any good anymore... I smoked a little bit once and it just made my head buzz irritatingly, maybe I didn't smoke enough or something.

some seriously Insane Clown Posse trailer shit

OTM

OH MY GOD there really are people on youtube doing this shit. fuck me. this si so funny.

crack open an ice cold Mountain Dew, sit back, relax, and take a ride on a dumb guy's astral plane

apparently they showed this on the 11 o clock news somewhere? grab your salvia before they ban it next week

I always assumed this would be some weakass shit, but people here make it sound great.

it reminds me of a combination of nightmares and nitrous, watching these videos

I tried this once and nothing happened. My boyfriend at the time, however, was convinced a stampede of elephants was coming and built a barrier out of all the chairs in his apartment.

LOL AT FIRST YOUTUBE VIDEO FOR "SALVIA"

"wasn't there someone on ILX who had a story about a friend dreaming they were a background tile in NES Contra for 2 years?

-- Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 26 July 2007 03:42 (14 hours ago) Link"

haha! where is this?

ok I don't really want to try this anymore but loool

which one did you see curtis? the sublime shirt kid?

he's like the least awesome of all

yeah that one

"wasn't there someone on ILX who had a story about a friend dreaming they were a background tile in NES Contra for 2 years?

-- Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 26 July 2007 03:42 (14 hours ago) Link"

haha! where is this?

-- creme1, Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:47 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

dunno about the friend but the contra tile was I!

oh ok! sorry, I forgot the exact story.

same here.

ooh ooh i wanna bark like a seal with cerebral palsy and roll around on the floor eating my boogers in the fetal position too

besides reverting to childhood, i thought i could chew the space in the room and suffered from terrible teeth-grinding in my sleep for months afterwards

Haha, Alex's Entire Salvia Trip - Part 1 is pretty entertaining.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WHVHqCQH0_U

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7v_qB8Oc-UA

will oldham likes this shit.

s'aight. it'll be bullshit when it gets scheduled, but no tremendous loss.

will oldham likes to do it with kin, so i'm not surprised

After watching a couple videos, it doesn't look very good. What if you had some strange thought about biting through your tongue? I have little doubt that in the next instant you'd be holding your tongue in your hand and mumbling "wow" over and over while laughing hysterically and bleeding to death.

i don't appreciate your suggestion that people other than rocket physicists do this stuff

After watching a couple videos, it doesn't look very good. What if you had some strange thought about biting through your tongue? I have little doubt that in the next instant you'd be holding your tongue in your hand and mumbling "wow" over and over while laughing hysterically and bleeding to death.

-- dean ge, Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:56 PM (3 hours ago)

This is why it's key to have a sober, intelligent person with you when you do it.

Though to be fair, I'm not sure what a sober intelligent person could do to prevent you from biting through your tongue.

Though to be fair, I'm not sure what a sober intelligent person could do to prevent you from biting through your tongue whether people that use Salvia have any "sober, intelligent" friends.

christ...this dissuades me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuoPDStmrU

it probably doesn't help to have a bunch of people staring at you, and some salvia kid nattering at you about "the salvia people" the whole time, but from this guy it seems like you'd be well out of reach of all that if you take a big enough hit.

LOL @ slocki's response to salva googler, upthread!

some of those youtube salva vids are dying to have the "where's waldo" shocksite treatment, where the guy who's hit some S.D. up is just about to start spouting off when the screen cuts to big horrible monster scary face and the audio cuts to AAAAAAAAAAARRHHH! Someone plz plz do this & upload to youtube it wd bring tons lolz.

OMG these videos this is my favorite crap I have ever found on youtube

Oddly, me too!

next to that New Order one where Bernard gets all pissed at the guy in the mixing booth

After watching a couple videos, it doesn't look very good. What if you had some strange thought about biting through your tongue? I have little doubt that in the next instant you'd be holding your tongue in your hand and mumbling "wow" over and over while laughing hysterically and bleeding to death.

-- dean ge, Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

considering the media scrutiny the drug is facing now, wouldn't you think we would constantly hear about this if it were actually happening? maybe even see some videos?

anyway. I just watched some of the salvia videos on youtube, and holy shit are they ever funny. A+++ would watch again, makes me want to do it (just waiting till it gets scheduled so that the illegality will make it more fun).

Probably nobody has ever thought about biting through their tongue yet. Maybe if you do it now, since I mentioned it, you'll think about it and you will be the first! :-P

nah I'm pretty sure that, with rare exceptions, the idea that hallucinogens --> self-mutilation is just a persistent and pernicious myth dating back to the guy in the '60s who made up the "cautionary tale" about teenage acid heads staring at the sun until they went blind

WHO IS BIG LURCH OF SALVIA PEOPLE?

also guy that thought he was an orange and peeled himself.
http://www.robandree.com/images/pictures/blog/seinfeld.jpg
who are these people?

xpost, ha! There was a news item a while back about a guy who cut his LEG off with a HACK SAW and he and his girlfriend thought it was a pretty good idea up until a few moments after his leg hit the ground. It's a rare exception, sure, but this is also just LSD. LSD never made me as retarded as salvia does to people. Early on, I remember reading the story of a guy who kept trying to put his head through a wall on that erowid site and they were strongly urging people to have babysitters.

xpost man PCP doesn't count, you basically have to be insane and/or retarded in the first place to even do that shit

was someone talking about pcp? I was talking about LSD and Salvia.

big lurch and the orange-peeling dude were both PCP

I couldn't find anything about yr leg-sawing bro, do you have a link? so much misinformation gets out there, I tend to be skeptical about this kind of stuff

Dude, from the look of it they could just leave this stuff legal, as a way of convincing kids that drugs really are as lame as adults always said.

yeah, but you're not seeing what they're seeing

No, I know how that effect goes -- I'm just saying this seriously seems like a bored kid two-minute mindfuck drug of the sort that would make lots of people want to stick to drinking.

I always thought mushrooms were one of the high points of that -- you know, stuff that's not inherently pleasurable, and just breaks your brain in a way that may or may not be awesome -- but legal drugs and pseudo-drugs like this or the bottle of Robo are definitely the kings of it.

it's a long two minutes.

Yeah, you know, there's a reason they don't put warnings on Dramamine or keep it behind the counter. After you've tried it once, you never want to touch anything like that ever again.

scary one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yXuoPDStmrU

I couldn't find anything about yr leg-sawing bro, do you have a link? so much misinformation gets out there, I tend to be skeptical about this kind of stuff

Nah, I just throw shit out there Ripley style. Believe it... or not!

at least when called pon it you are honest about the value of your words

I would've believed it if you had attributed it to PCP. or a deliriant, like the story about the dude who cut off his tongue and penis after drinking angel trumpet tea (idiots of the world: if you are going to take a drug which makes it impossible to distinguish reality from hallucination, please at least think about having a trip sitter).

"called pon it?" No charge for words here.

u suk how u like dem words?

talking old-man face discovered in furniture wood grain =/= legitimate trip sitter

it's more like these guys below =/= legitimate trip sitter:
http://users.fmg.uva.nl/rgrasman/uploaded_images/Alieneggs-colorreduced-701054.gif

xp: as long as you're not charging me for them, dem's fine.

allright let's talk about value . when you wrote "was someone talking about pcp? I was talking about LSD and Salvia." makes you sound indignant for someone getting your facts wrong but when you got pressed for a bit more information you were quick to say you got none of them facts. let it go now plz?

you can't fight in here! this is the war roomdrug thread!

^ lawlz

can HOOS or someone who's done it describe what it's like? is it similar to a lot of mushrooms or acid, but just more overwhelming? and maybe explain the orb effect?

you were quick to say you got none of them facts.

Nah, I was quick to say I don't give a shit about providing footnotes to everything I say.

let it go now plz?

you first, starting.... NOW!

more salvia talk here:
Kratom, the legal opiate alternative (and other legal highs discussion, I guess).

to reiterate, i've done damn near everything and salvia is more disorienting by a factor of about a million, a sitter is a must.

**(Of course, I understand why someone would not believe that a man on LSD sawed off his leg while his girlfriend watched and neither of them thought it was a bad idea until it was too late. Believe me, I understand the inability to accept this. However, what I'm telling you is simply that I read it in a non-fictitious news article only a few years ago and I don't give a shit if you believe it. If it was a popular urban myth, you'd probably find it all over the net. If it was a small news bite about a random jackass in Utah, it would probably have faded out of the news completely at this point. However, the dangerous shit people do on Salvia is readily viewable over at erowid.org... It has nothing to do with "who gots da facts." Facts aren't something a person got or don't got. They exist out there in space. What I don't got is a reference on that particular article.)

this thread revival reminded me I should try it again.
I did it once a few years ago when I was trying to think of a way to earn a living without compromising too much my happiness. I was pacing around my apartment for a few hours already, being all cerebral and restless, alternating sips of thick green tea and red wine, it was very hot outside but inside was fresh and shady. So I smoked some salvia; I was not expecting enlightenment, or a solution to all my problems , but consciousness being governed by physical causes and for what I knew about it I took a safe bet that instant consciousness alteration could provide a jolt of physical wisdom, a different sensual experience of matter ( the world and myself), that could be part of an ongoing critical perspective on my life (Take a step outside the planet Turn around and around Take a look at where you are) . I only remember a vague feeling of it, like walking through an underbrush, in my apartment, ferns felt transparent, the veins of leaves flowing. It seamlessly faded into my keeping on walking around the apartment for a few hours with stops at my computer, alternating sips of my beverages and thinking. So that's my little story, a materialist almost "ceremonial" usage, I think lots of people should invent such a thing for themselves.

BTW, has anyone here done PCP?? I remember Beastie Boys sang about it, didn't they? Isn't that what "dust" is? PCP sounds like my worst nightmare.

Sébastien, did you learn anything from it, like you'd hoped?

Does salvia seem to kill massive brain cells? These people look more cracked out during the experience than crackheads.

quick trip at wikipedia : "Salvinorin's potency should not be confused with toxicity. Rodents chronically exposed to dosages many times greater than those to which humans are exposed did not show signs of organ damage."

who wants to try this with me

also called Jimson Weed, Gypsum Weed, Loco Weed, Jamestown Weed, Thorn Apple, Angel's Trumpet, Devil's Trumpet, Mad Hatter, Crazy Tea, and Zombie's Cucumber

lolo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8J883zTavA

inside edition is on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12SZAyMp54

it's weird -- wikipedia mentions "phantom cigarettes." these^^^ guys smoke one. seems like a pretty particular side-effect..

damn goliath why u make sad?

I did salvia a few years ago. I didn't have a bad experience, but I felt kind of lucky for not having one. I didn't have any desire to do it again.

I was chatting on IM with a friend of mine, and took a toke. After a few minutes I was kind of stuck. I couldn't focus on the chat window, and the light from my monitor contrasting with the dark room did something weird to my head. I felt like I was a statue with vines and plants growing all over me and coming out from under my monitor. It felt like someone was in the room with me - something I can only describe as feminine and slightly sinister - but it didn't frighten me or anything. After a few minutes, my clothes felt very uncomfortable. My skin was really scratchy and sensitive. That's about it, really.

I read a bunch of stuff afterward on erowid and some other sites like that. I get a huge kick out of the stories, and these idiots on youtube crack me up, too. I learned that the feeling of a presence in the room is a pretty typical thing, and plants seem to figure into a lot of people's trips as well. I suppose it's possible I had read some of those stories before I took it, and they influenced what I experienced, but it's pretty weird that a drug can induce such similar "visions" in different people.

I can't really think of a drug it reminds me of. The closest would be nitrous or ketamine.

i never even heard of jimsom weed abuse. this stuff disintegrates your kidneys on contact.

xpost yeah plants were all over my one huge trip, first the corner in which my stereo sat (playing aki tsuyuko, under normal circumstances the most benign music in the world but twisted to evil ends) became a sentient, assholish celestial christmas tree, and after a while I was caught in like a multi-billion acre corn field except the corn stalks were sideways christmas trees and i was shoved through/under them (with the stalks scratching my body over and over) for what seemed like hours.

That sounds way fucked up.

this stuff disintegrates your kidneys on contact.

?

i did this with a friend in high school. it had no effect on me but my friend at one pt rolled towards the wall as if he was being pulled by something

Sébastien, did you learn anything from it, like you'd hoped?

experiencing a sensual Otherness like that got part of the process of my sensual maturity, that had repercussions on my critical thinking that eventually got me where I am today, accidents included and all that, fairly free happy internet man. .

can HOOS or someone who's done it describe what it's like? is it similar to a lot of mushrooms or acid, but just more overwhelming? and maybe explain the orb effect?

-- negotiable, Saturday, 28 July 2007 00:21

I see some others have already chimed in here. My fuzzily remembered experience is as follows:

As was recommended, I tried to burn the full dose with a single toke. I succeeded, though not without some protests from my chest. There was the attendant coughing, watering of the eyes, and disorientation; this is where it kicked in. As I leaned my head back to take in air and recover from my coughing, my eyes fell on a painting on the wall. It was an image of some brush lining a winding path that lead over the top of a hill. Further back in the painting one could see hills further away, and at the farthest hill there was a house with some sheep.

I was immediately struck by the fact that the brush had taken on a three dimensional quality. It looked like it was protruding from the frame just enough that I could walk up and touch it. It felt fuzzy and organic, like a Chia pet.

I suddenly remembered "hey, I'm under the influence, I can do whatever I want here."

So I grabbed hold of the brush on either side of the "path" in the painting and pulled hard, which brought the image rushing at me. Then I was in it. In front of and all around me were the contents of the painting, I was in this dollar store decorative work. I looked behind me and saw, like looking out a massive picture window, the contents of my loft: my sober & serenely smiling friend, furniture, computer, and all. I felt completely safe, secure in the knowledge that I could go back any time I wanted to.

So I ran around in this idyllic vaugely Irish-looking setting for what felt like hours. I was able to leap from hill to hill, so I got to the house at the back of the painting rather quickly. I talked with the sheperd and ran around with the sheep. He offered me some tea but I told him I had to go, I had company waiting for me. I bounded back over the hills and used the brush to slingshot myself back out again. Then I laid down on the floor of my loft and let it wear off. Then I took a nap.

My friend assured me later that I was standing in front of the painting staring at it for about 15 minutes.

experiencing a sensual Otherness like that got part of the process of my sensual maturity, that had repercussions on my critical thinking that eventually got me where I am today, accidents included and all that, fairly free happy internet man. .

I'm confused a little bit, not that it matters. But, are you saying you are now a fairly free happy internet man or you were just calling me "internet man?" Lack of comma suggests you are referring to yourself there, so I am just wondering if you're involved in web design/consultation/publishing, etc. Not that these are remotely the same industries, but they are all web-oriented careers.

HOOS, i would smoke all this salvia with you

Sébastien is webmans. we all webbers

i never even heard of jimsom weed abuse. this stuff disintegrates your kidneys on contact.

Heh.. Datura is to be avoided. I'm sure there are shamans around that dig the stuff, but I'm not one of them.

HOOS thanks & wow. it sounds like what i thought drugs were like before i actually did any drugs.

I've had some similar experiences when I would do multiple doses of "double dipped" or liquid LSD, but I remember when I would tell other people who'd used acid, nobody really seemed to believe me. So, it just became a relatively secret type of experience shared by one or two other "trip buddies." I remember once every single bit of everything I could see was just wiggling and I suddenly was transported into this cosmic sandstorm where I actually felt like it was so windy I could barely breathe and I was trying to shield my face from all the shit that was flying at me. It was notably different also in that everything was rust or greyish colored rather than obvious psychedelic bright colors. I was basically incapacitated and having a kind of panic attack for a while on the couch, just collapsing under the weight of these incredible visions. Once the peak experience passed, the rest of the trip was straight out of a science fiction movie, where everything in my apartment looked like portals or hallways of a spaceship or robotic and metallic in some way. There was almost no talking the entire time except when we were both frightened by the cat, which looked like an evil robot monster coming right for us. The entire thing was cold and alien rather than warm and organic.

Sébastien is webmans. we all webbers
^^^^^ that's right

Webmans + webbers! Thanks for the specifics! ;-)

Watching Syd Barret's documented acid trip sort of enlightened me how silly the use of psychedelics really are:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4fyxNPz9-ks

Not to bum anyone's trip or nuthin'...

Yeah I want to emphasize that I had a positive experience, but that I would *not* recommend the use of the thing given the preponderance of people that have had horrible experiences with it.

HOOS, that's amazing. It reminds me somewhat of the account I read of the person who took Salvinorin A, and then found himself in his grandmother's house, just as he remembered it from childhood. But, to emphasize, he reported being actually, physically there, like in the sense of a place that felt more concretely real than the room in which he had been before he had taken the drug...He could walk around the place, open up drawers, or whatever. That particular story is probably online somewheres; I will try to dig it up.

Also, have any of you read Dale Pendell's books? I highly, highly recommend them, if you have even the slightest interest in any psychoactive substance, from the most commonplace to most exotic. He's an amazing guy.

Found it. It's from Daniel Siebert, the guy who first isolated Salvinorin A.

...But then I saw that something was very wrong! This was not my living room. It was the living room of my deceased maternal grandparents. And it was furnished as it was when I was a child, not as it was later in their life. The most extraordinary thing about this was that this was the real world, not a memory or vision. I was really there, and it was all just as solid as the room I'm sitting in now. I had the sudden realization that although I had managed to pull myself back into my body I had somehow ended up back in the wrong spot in the timeline of my physical existence. I was convinced that I might be stuck in this situation and would have to continue my life from this point in my past. As I panicked and desperately tried to remember where it was that I was supposed to be, I lost awareness of the physical world again and found myself without a body—lost. Then it happened again. I found myself regaining consciousness in the real world. And again, as soon as I saw everything clearly, I realized that this was not my home, it was a friend of mine’s. Then again I panicked and lost consciousness. This cycle repeated at least seven or eight times. Always I would find myself in a familiar room. Some of these places were from my childhood and some were from my more recent past. In this state, all the points of time in my personal history coexisted. One did not precede the next. Apparently, had I so willed it, I could return to any point in my life and really be there, because it was actually happening right now.

link

Also, Dale Pendell on Salvia...

i had some wolf shaman friends who were really into this. they were all "safety first" so i said fuck y'all lightweights and dusted mine with a healthy serving of pcp. i passed out immediately and felt nothing, but now everytime i see a bowl of beernuts this happens:

http://filer.case.edu/~gjc2/donwave.gif

For real?

no, sorry

It seemed kinda plausible, you had me going there.

your trip sounds really amazing

Just for the sake of clarification, I didn't try it again and I haven't touched any psychoactive drugs in almost two years. "Put down the bong and get on with life" and all that.

Also the Buddha prob wouldn't be real happy with me trippin.

HOOS, have you ever read "Zig Zag Zen"? It's a really thoughtful and well-worth read about the intersection of Buddhism & psychedelics.

um, zigzagzen.com

Also the Buddha prob wouldn't be real happy with me trippin.

Yeah, the hippie mentality of psychedelics as "instant enlightenment" is silly. It's the opposite, pretty much. Certain Vajrayana sects use/d them once or twice to reintroduce a person to the nature of mind, but more than this is basically going the opposite way of what Buddhists are trying to achieve. Psychedelics blatantly show the endless arising of thoughts and allow one to experience the enormity and interconnectivity of existence with the fresh eyes of a baby and functioning brain of an adult. Other than that, from a Buddhist perspective, they're a rather dangerous waste of time and opportunity.

But, there's got to be a reason such a large percentage of American Buddhists used to be hippies or psychedelics users. It seems like enlightenment and it gets one off chasing even better "highs" and opens eyes to possibilities, right?

Certain Vajrayana sects use/d them once or twice to reintroduce a person to the nature of mind...

whaaaa? examples please! seriously.

I'd suggest that given psychedelics' tendency to disconnect us from present reality, they can be nothing but a road block to experience of "thus."

But, there's got to be a reason such a large percentage of American Buddhists used to be hippies or psychedelics users. It seems like enlightenment and it gets one off chasing even better "highs" and opens eyes to possibilities, right?

I think this is pretty much correct. Psychedelics, if they don't damage you permanently, certainly leave you open to alternative ways of looking at the world. Given Buddhism's surge in popularity in the early 70s, it's a pretty safe bet that lots of that surge was coming from ex-hippies who were looking for psychedelic-free ways to experience "reality." The same happened with Christianity: look at the language used to witness in the late 60s/early 70s! "Jesus is far out and really NOW, maaan," etc

xpost to el deano

There's a bunch of info online including an mp3 lecture, if you're really lazy (as I was at the time ;-)) But where I originally read about it was Blofeld's "Tibetan Buddhism." The author himself was a product of the 60s and this catapulted into the serious study of Tibetan Buddhism. All you have to do is look at the iconography and it seems pretty obvious there's some psychedelic origin. In Tibet, the form of Buddhism is an amalgamation of everything from the area thanks to that great king whatsisname who made enlightenment the #1 goal of Tibet, so it blends all the forms of Buddhism with the shamanic-like practices that were indigenous to the region, like Bonpo, etc. There's some great passages I could pull from books that show the certain similarities that might be addressed in Zig Zag Zen (I don't know, I haven't read it).

I'd like to comment on something I didn't even realize I hinted at in my post above about the cold and alien metallic science fiction trip. I don't know what caused this particular sort of "space" trip, but my tripping partner had the same experience. As I said, the entire trip was silent except for the time when we freaked because the cat was coming at us and we couldn't tell if it was a real robot alien monster or just a hallucination. I think the extent of our conversation at that point was, "Ah! What is it? Is it real?" or maybe even startled mumblings. I remember it was my roommate who said finally, "It's the cat!" (because I think he had balls enough to touch it and felt the fur?)

But, the question I'm getting at here is: what's with the psychic factor in psychedelics? The 2 guys sharing a phantom cigarette in the above video sort of hints at this, too. In my experience, my friends and I saw the same shit. Now, how is that possible without communication?

I'm gonna try to avoid the cognition trap from the meditation thread when I say this, BUUUUUT:

Did you and your friend actually see the same thing, or did you just think you did? Unless you were inside your trip partner's head (whoa), there's no way to be sure you guys actually had the same experience at the time, and memory tends to be easily bent (especially when drugs are involved).

Reading much more subtle body language maybe? xpost

Well, we were pretty serious "white boy drug professors" at the time and we'd compare notes and draw pictures to compare the next day, etc. Obviously, I don't know what he saw because I wasn't in his head. But, when the entire vision is skewed into a cosmic storm and the entire trip takes on a metallic spaceship appearance for no particular reason, that's weird. And this is only one particular trip. We were basically always seeing the same thing. As far as "body language" goes, in this particular case, we couldn't see SHIT and we were both lying on our backs staring at the ceiling and the opposite walls for about 4 hours. Typically, I remember we didn't look at each other too much at all because we always looked strange and it was just not very appealling.

There was some big psychedelic psychic experiment in Port Chester in the 60s which, of course, was a big "success" according to those involved and a big failure to the scientific community that later evaluated the whole thing. I think it's on wikipedia.

http://dozin.com/esp/thedream.html

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/169/the_grateful_deads_acid_test_for_esp.html

I accidentally smoked some dusted weed in college. Highlights included the lights going down and a spotlight coming up on anyone who was talking to me, stepping into a "closet" and walking in Narnia and being amazed by the showerheads singing to me. Friends told me I kinda blacked out; never had any intoxicant experience that intense since.

This does seem pretty interesting; the brevity of the experience makes it pretty appropriate for a short attention span culture.

Hmmm. Well, there's a book called "Shamanism and Tantra in the Himalayas" which has a great deal of information about various psychoactive plants used by shamans in Nepal who follow variations of the Bonpo and Vajrayana paths...I guess what I balked at was your assertion that "certain Vajrayana sects use/d them once or twice to reintroduce a person to the nature of mind". I have a hard time believing that this is true. There are shamans in the Himalayas who use plants having psychedelic properties, but they are used more for healing, divination, and other traditional shamanic purposes-- not for reintroducing folks to the nature of mind. The online sources that you linked to seem pretty speculative at best.

As for the origin of the iconography, it is possible to have all sorts of visionary experiences without ingesting psychedelics. We're talking about people who meditated in caves and/or in total darkness for long periods of time.

Regarding telepathy, I have no problem accepting that such experiences are common occurences while one is intoxicated. Ayahuasca, for one, has a strong reputation for fostering telepathic experiences.

Oh, I didn't even realize you were balking! I thought you were just interested. Why do you have a hard time believing this is true?

brains being similarly evolved tend to work similarly (we all know the color blue , the sweet taste etc) , it will tend to produce similar results @ stimulus : same things will tend to be produced under the influence of a substance of a given potency or a given sensorial deprivation etc

dell what do you think of that guy Randi who offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate psychic powers? don't you think you should have a go at it and bag that prize ?

Interest + skepticism. It's just, think of all that you've read, teachings that you've received, etc. When have you ever heard an account of a lama giving a student a plant in order to reacquaint the student with the nature of mind? Vajrayana is very practical, so I imagine that if such a thing were thought to be beneficial, then it would be employed. From what I understand, the teachers in these traditions would have sufficient realization to be able to do this for the student without recourse to plants.

Sebastien, I am merely saying that there are frequent anecdotal reports of telepathic experiences when people have ingested Ayahuasca and other substances.

Oh hey guys I forgot to mention:

I did try it without significant result on one occasion previous to the story mentioned above. I had On the Corner playing really loud, I hit, and proceeded to freak out. Apocalyptic doom-funk is a bad idea when you're trying new psychedelics, but I was young and stupid.

No hallucinations (I figure I did it all wrong). I fought the impulse to hyperventilate and was gripped by a sudden panic that everyone on earth was going to know I'd been smoking this stuff. I started to frantically clean my device to rid it of the smell and, in my panic, dropped and broke it.

but I was young and stupid younger and stupider.

Hm, I thought my comments were pretty clear about how common psychedelics in Buddhism are:

Yeah, the hippie mentality of psychedelics as "instant enlightenment" is silly. It's the opposite, pretty much. Certain Vajrayana sects use/d them once or twice to reintroduce a person to the nature of mind, but more than this is basically going the opposite way of what Buddhists are trying to achieve.

But, I guess it is a little vague. To be extremely clear, then, it's not common and I don't even know if it is still practiced anywhere (though possibly?) and the mp3 I had of it was actually called something like "use of psychedelics in secret vajrayana cults" but I am having a damn hard time trying to locate it again. You used to be able to just Google "psychedelic vajrayana" and it popped right up on the first page. Anyway, if you Google the same terms now, as I said, you will find plenty of information about it. Vajrayana practitioners also get drunk. That's pretty common knowledge. They're not simply trying to "get wasted," but some people end up doing that and fooling themselves about progressing. As an additional thought, meaning nothing whatsoever, have you ever noticed how psychedelic Tibetan art is?

dell what do you think of that guy Randi who offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can demonstrate psychic powers? don't you think you should have a go at it and bag that prize ?

I think dell was just providing links to the psyche experiment I had mentioned for anyone who was interested. As far as Randi goes, there are some funny YouTube videos that demonstrate his useful role in society. He saves us from people in kung fu suits who try to move pages of a phonebook with their "minds," but he also is a roadblock to serious scientific inquiry. James Randi is a "pseudo-skeptic" and, basically, full of shit in his own way. He's as much a carny as the people he tends to expose. But, if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it, as his pattern of behavior indicates. Anyone who raises the JREF publicity stunt $million prize as a serious response to discussion of the "paranormal" can't be very serious, either.

nothing less than a roadblock to serious scientific inquiry... can you be more dramatic?

can you be more rhetorical?

But, if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it, as his pattern of behavior indicates.

why is that?

Because he's an angry little man whose livelihood depends on it now that he's a failed magician?

go revive a paranormal thread or whatever I'm done with you

like I give a fuck?

Pseudo-skepticism at work: "I overstated my case... based on the small amount of data I obtained. It was rash and improper of me to do so." ... Randi stated: "Viewing the entire tape, we see..." This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape.

I'm done with you

hahahaha this fuckin guy

Yeah, :), I was trying to bait him back with that last post just so's I could say, "I thought you were done with me!"

dean ge = nude spock?

ya lost me

I always thought mushrooms were one of the high points of that -- you know, stuff that's not inherently pleasurable, and just breaks your brain in a way that may or may not be awesome -- but legal drugs and pseudo-drugs like this or the bottle of Robo are definitely the kings of it.

-- nabisco, Friday, July 27, 2007 10:10 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Link

i dont' get what nabisco is saying here. surely mushrooms are among the most gentle & pleasant drugs out there?

GAH not for mne. That's why, I realize now, if mushrooms have wrecked my mind for weeks after doing them, I probably shouldn't try something this potent. But I gots some mental problems too. That's always a recipe for disaster. I just watched "The Devil and Daniel Johnston" and it reminded me of how fucked up I was on mushrooms+no psych meds. Man, what a depressing afternoon ever since.

I was just a useless, conspiratorial, paranoid wreck who was not taking care of myself one whit.

yeah, I know a dude who had a totally awful shroom trip that left him depressed for months... but like with abbott, I think there were preexisting conditions.

mental problems notwithstanding, mushrooms are not gentle and are maybe pleasant despite themselves imo. they just don't agree with me, mostly cause I have a low low low tolerance for nausea(too low to put up with it while chasing a high/drunk); people talk about acid as the harsh, ugly synthetic(!) cousin but it's far more gentle in my experience.

hmmm. horses for courses i guess

I had an exp more like you slocki! I found them gentle, like weed is, I was expecting full on hallucinations but never had any, just extra active imagintion, and uncontrollable giggling (like, almost actually peeing myself giggling, it was awesome). Midwinter frosty icy canberra night full of mist and icy trees? AWESOME SHROOM FUN :)

I did have wonderful, ecstatic, beautiful trips on 2ci, which fucked with my head in a completely different way.

Later on, I mean. At least it wasn't so bad I couldn't leave my house for a month afterwards without being terrified of potentially seeing a picture/losing my mind over of Will Smith as fishman in Shark Tales, like after my first shroom binge.

have you foregone (non-prescription) psychoactives since you went back on your meds?

That was sanskrit who provided the links to those experiments...but at any rate, I tend to agree with dean in regards to Randi. I don't know if I'd call him a "pseudo-skeptic", though; rather, I'd say that he is a skeptic of the worst kind. I get the impression that he is more invested in defending a rigid scientific materialist worldview than he is in genuinely being open to the possibilities of phenomena which do not fit into said worldview...I do applaud some aspects of what he has done as far as calling bullshit on stuff that is patent nonsense, but dean's probably right in contending that "if someone really had a paranormal power, he certainly would not ever admit it". Plus I am put off by his (Randi's) seeming smugness and self-righteousness.

God forbid that there are things that we cannot see, or cannot yet explain, or that do not fit into our pet paradigms...

Well, the reason I used the term pseudo-skeptic is because skepticism implies some level of doubt. Randi's entire premise is a foregone conclusion about as believable as the intelligent design person who "doubts" evolution. The huckster flat-out lies to "disprove" things he never honestly tested. When called on his bullshit, he'll admit to being less than scientific and he'll even admit to lying occasionally, but it's all done with a dismissive attitude the way Bill O'Reilly might admit to some wrongdoing. "Hey, so maybe I was less than fair, but can you blame me? I don't have time for this sort of nonsense." He likes to sweep this sort of publicity under the rug with a brief kiss off note on his website (or not) and focus on the real "important" issues, like taking down famous tv psychics who are obviously full of shit and easy to suck into his circus. As if anything could be more of a waste of his time than challenging Sylvia Browne.

BTW, I revived the one Randi thread I could find so we could get back to talking about drugs here...

I found a new and interesting drug just now called Calea zacatechichi. Anyone ever tried it? It's a "dream herb" and what appeals to me about it is that it seems to have been used by native americans for dream exploration. This sounds similar to Tibetan dream yoga, which I'm rather fond of.

so, a friend of mine is getting some soon. should i try it?

i call it "die" cuz it makes me feel like im dead.

-- chaki, Sunday, April 7, 2002 12:00 AM

still funny

bloomer you should! give reports etcc..

I tried this once and got lost in a painting for about an hour.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, July 26, 2007

Dude you got Stendahl Syndrome.

Does the salvia stuff you can buy from 'legal high' websites and the like actually resemble the shit people are talking about here?

yup same shit

http://www.superdeluxeblog.com/2007/12/26/and-now-for-the-other-best-of-list/

that first video is still the greatest video ever

so is the asian kid in the grass

i kinda dig "zombie freakout".
Honestly, I would've been curious enough to try this, but after seeing these, I'll pass.

Funeral for a Wooden Effigy of Jack Nicholson

I'm alive! I'm not made of sticks!

sorry, try: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=67664

i worry that if mushrooms were ever legalized the world would be flooded with similar youtube videos and erowid firsthand accounts

actually im not "worried" about that, i would love to see more jocks speaking in tongues

so mainstream now

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/meme-alert-teen.html

LOL @ that one

http://my.telegraph.co.uk/VirtualContent/87365/20070717212329.jpg

Hoos, drugs is naughty

That said, Me + One small magic mushroom + one toke of spliff + no alcohol + Amsterdam = one night trapped inside a sleeping bag with visions of Amelie in the curtains.

If Salvia is anything like that, I'll kindly pass.

yeah i will def never fuck w/this shit again. total mistake in retrospect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hAY9ojJOA0

Holy hell. Yeah, looks like good times...

vid == voyeurism in the service of truth

why are there no youtubes of someone smoking salvia and eating the ghost pepper at the same time

apparently this drug causes vivid hallucinations of the PTA disbanding

hahaha

like how the chick is just kicking back as charlie sneakers jumps out the fuckin window.

i tried this once in college and it was totally fucking surreal

whatd u see

I admit I'm curious about this but I'm also past the age where incapacitating myself seems like a good/worthwhile thing to do

eyes went kaleidoscopic and i tripped balls for like an hour and then suddenly surfaced. thanked my friends for being so patient and they were like lol dude you just stared at the dresser for maybe two minutes

i thought i'd posted about this before, but: like you know when you were a kid and pressed your eye into your knee and saw weird geometric shapes? that's what happened

loll awz

I admit I'm curious about this but I'm also past the age where incapacitating myself seems like a good/worthwhile thing to do

― a man is only a guy (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:58 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im curious to try it but everyone says its a terrible experince

also i am old

yeah i guess i'm 'glad' for the experience because now i can brag on the internet but for real it was mostly just harrowing and not worth it

i worked with this face-tatted bike messenger who had done and was doing all of the drugs ever invented and he was like 'i will never do that shit ever again' *drops acid*

one of the few frissons of conservative moral outrage i've ever had was when i saw a head shop in twin falls idaho boastfully advertising salvia and i was like "that just isn't right, think of the children"

I'm old too, but there's a little part of me that says, "Fuckit, it's only for two goddam minutes…"

I mean, I could turn on Backyardigans for the kids and then go into the bathroom like I'm taking a shit or something.

lol

that's just making me think of louis ck's bit on pooping with the door open but i'm imagining what it'd be like on salvia and it's like staring into the hellmouth

the time distortion thing is really what seems the oddest to me

tbh id prob try it if someone offered, tho id like for there to be a couple strong people around to hold me down if i tried to go out the window like youtube guy

yeah like it only lasts 2 mins but in yr mind its hours so whats the diff

That was my first thought. Why are they BOTH smoking it?

"It's two minutes! Wait your own damn turn!"

my friend actually did a bunch of research before ordering it from the internet, so we were ~prepared~ and had a spotter and stuff. i've heard horror stories about people wandering into traffic and stuff

nb i have not watched that video

Video's pretty good, gbx!

http://tosic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/inception-van-fall-700x279.jpg

ok i just watched it, seems....accurate.

i have watched many salvia videos, excellent youtube genre

You can watch people turn into real people on those.

I don't think I'm too old to try a new drug, but I'm pretty sure I'm too old to ask any of my friends to be a drug-sitter.

thinking maybe this youtube trend augurs well for a specialty service dog. st bernard that lies on yr chest at the scent of salvia, little placard around his neck that says "DON'T WORRY, YOU WILL BE NORMAL IN JUST A MINUTE"

Saliva? Total Classic! Couldn't drool without it.

What? Oh. Never mind. I did smoke salvia several times while going through a little post-collegiate phase of "shit, I can't find any weed and I kinda miss the feeling." Obviously it seems to hit different people differently. But for me it was about like pot, only shorter-lasting.

The entry into the high was a little steeper than a usual pot high: that is, it came on much more swiftly - from inhaling to "whoa" in a few seconds. Same old giggles & munchies, same vague euphoria, same old mild paranoia (oh shit MY NEIGHBORS CAN SMELL THIS AND THEY ARE DEFINITELY UNDERCOVER COPS), a little dissociation. By dissociation, I mean I had an urgent feeling that I needed to send myself some kind of letter or message to inform Non-High-Me about what it was like to be High-Me.

I didn't encounter anything like the visuals described upthread. Several times, I had a strong physical sensation of loosenesss. My head and torso were moving in only vague connection to my hips and legs, as if I had a waist made out of a Slinky.

The whole thing was generally over in a few minutes. Not a life-changing experience, but not an everyday pastime either. The main attraction is the legality.

the stuff my buddy got off the internet was some quintuply-strong variety---i guess you can fortify it with its own resin or something? idk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BgbFMgF5nk

yeah like it only lasts 2 mins but in yr mind its hours

That sounds terrifying to me.

if u smoked salvia constantly tho itd be like living a million years think abt it

did salvia twice in high school. first time felt like i was in some kind of nightmarish carnival/junk yard. kinda a bummer. second time i felt as though i was experiencing the african savannah, in a tent, on a tiger hunt. there were elephants stomping around in the background--i mean, i thought i could HEAR the elephants, but i did not see them.

Oh, the tough choices of finding a sitter - you don't want to go alone in case you jump out a window, but dammit, a pack of hyenas with one holding a camcorder can't do much good to the psyche either.

if u smoked salvia constantly tho itd be like living a million years think bat it.

You could always move to Monroe, La.

i have watched many salvia videos, excellent youtube genre

co-sign, should have a category at golden globes

u guys should make some of yr own ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brEvQskNgjE

"Kathleen Harrison explains why it's better to use Salvia the way the Mexican Mazatec people use it."

on the hazard of getting mobile when under the influence : one time i jumped over my desk, perfectly rolled on the floor judoka style without hurting myself (!?) and started to rock on cue to a boris track with refreshing teenage enthusiasm fist pumping and all. i knew it was dangerous to let myself go mobile but that went better than i expected.

another time i wanted to make sure to have an enriching experience so i tried to prepare myself with meditation but i guess i rushed it so i had not the time to put the pipe down i went "lol, i think i made a big mistake": "space entities" were appearing in the air and serpentining their way to me sort of like in raiders of the lost ark when the open the ark. "space entities" finally free to torment me "forever". Now what came next is really weird, maybe fans of the horror genre will get a kick out of it: they froze my heart with terror @ making me feel a profound new dept to the feeling of shame: the shame that the dimension you are in is a fake, the shame of having to abdicate your dimension to take your true place in the proper one (the horror of the grotesque: a pixel on a rolling sidewalk decorated with giant bubbling smiling sunflowers) . To make it so i had to tumble head over heels on the spot in 2 a spiral at my core (i had not read or think about uzumaki in months but it could have belong in these pages) : i did so without breaking too much furniture. after i executed my tumble i was not in another dimension (i was decieved!) the "space entities" were still floating about but vacantly, as if they were just dumb chatbots that have nothing else to say after they have executed their routine. the trip was wearing out so it was sort of convenient for me to find a way to save face and shoo them away, whatevs.

"space entities"

~(*_*)~

man i just saw shapes and stuff, was i short-changed y/n

lol@ice , in the end they did look a lil like that.

gbx: you could try a higher potency.

yeah no

I'm kind of interested by all the drug experiences that seem derived from early video game things like pixels, 2D sidescrolling,, platforming, that sort of thing.

Imagine being a kid growing up never having even seen a NES, would you still turn into a pixel when you smoked this shit? What about if you smoked this shit in the 19th century. Would you turn into a brushstroke in a painting, or would you still just turn into a pixel in a video game.

80x

i think drug experiences can make things appear kind of granulated and people compare it to whatever comes to mind as being similar to that. i think in the past people might've compared it to being in a painting. there are some walter benjamin essays where he talks about his experience with weed and compares it to being in a painting by a specific painter, though i can't remember which one.

http://blogs.skokie68.org/abrooks/files/2011/03/seurat_sundayafternoonontheislandofgrandjatte1.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TxTSe7SJnPs/Srzv9mWqtcI/AAAAAAAANxE/vFkchCrAunQ/s400/5483861_std.jpg

i once got so high on mushrooms that i couldn't see, really, all i saw were oscillating dots. red and blue dots, dancing in patterns. when they first appeared, the red and blue dot patterns seemed like psychedelic distortions in regular things, like a trippy edge or texture. they eventually became the whole thing, which was difficult. i remember trying to communicate with flickering blobs of dots that emitted disconcerting noises (which i knew were people attempting to engage in conversation but), and trying to walk home in more or less total darkness, blind for the hurricane dots, along questionable forest paths for miles because the main roads were occupied by dot person matrix horror things. eventually i crawled through endless marble dot troughs of mud and leaves past midnight.

i saw them then as atoms, as in a 50s-style textbook illustration, electrons, protons and neurons. but i could see as how they might have been pixels, if i'd seen them that way. or seurat dots, or bosch demons maybe, or

let's not turn this thread into erowid guys

the shame that the dimension you are in is a fake

hah. yeah.

i've never done salvia, but anytime w/other stuff it's been like "you are silly monkeys, come back when you are ready to stop fooling around"

but i've never experienced resentment at encroaching into other dimmies or whatever, more just like affectionate older sibling ribbing at lack of solemnity or clearly defined purpose

I mean, I could turn on Backyardigans for the kids and then go into the bathroom like I'm taking a shit or something.

i read this as "then go into the back yard"

like that was a normal thing you'd do when you needed to take a shit. your kids would be like "dad? oh he's just in the back yard, takin a dump"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_d4HNy6W0QPE/Rv3HQCb0UBI/AAAAAAAABLg/vk-qQO8plhw/s400/physcodelic%2Bouthouse.jpg

I wouldn't mind spending five minutes as a table, tbh.

someone left a vial of this in my room and i figured that as i'd already popped my psychedelic cherry (with cautious and unspectacular doses tho) i wouldn't need a sitter, so this morning i sorta offhandedly took some. haha. like upworthy says, you won't believe what happened next.

Once I was alone and bored, smoked some and spent the next 8 minutes/eternity thinking it had turned me into a schizophrenic who was frozen and mute and all my friends would never know what had happened to me because I would never be able to speak again. Total bug out.

^^^ this. that real hal incandenza shit.

turns out one of my favorite videos is still on YouTube. what happens at 2:07 always makes me laugh uncontrollably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnwS5sPOzb0

I'm still in awe that this shit was legal. I knew some people who didn't feel much but everyone who tripped had a bad trip. I thought I was the letter F

Hippie friend claimed that the bad trip problem was highly concentrated extracts, you’re really supposed to just chew the leaves for a while.

its funny how this has permanently marred every other type of "legal weed", like some of my friends won't touch Delta 8 because they remember salvia

I'd be immediately wary of cannabis alternatives given how horrendous "Spice" turned out to be. Never heard of Delta 8 until now.

I liked Salvia (that was when it was legal) but never tried the extracts.

I was just listening to this guy on the Entheogenic Evolution podcast who has an interesting sounding book* about the nature of "visionary beings" and also had some pet ideas about affinity for salvia or otherwise.

* https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/They_Shimmer_Within_Cognitive_Evolutiona.html?id=DelHDwAAQBAJ&redir_esc=y

Delta 8 is a slightly altered THC, and it does occur naturally if sparingly in the plant. (Delta 9 is the THC we know.) It's very, very mild, and I wouldn't be using it if I could get the real thing.

yeah it's basically the Bud Lite of weed, similar effect but weaker and kinda different. I wouldn't use it either if I had weed available, but it's not a bad substitute. Particularly the edibles which get me pretty high but not in a full-on panic the way "real" edibles can. Still funny to bring it up like "no seriously, it's *almost* legal weed" and watch people freak out like "no, never again"

i had the saddest, emptiest ego-death experience on salvia. felt more like actual death really

god you guys make it sound real appealing 😱