ts: bad service at restaurants vs people who often complain about bad service at restaurants

i know a few people who apparently have the worst luck at restaurants because they always have terrible service. i feel like i've had one, possibly two experiences in my life with service that was so bad that i might complain about it later, so sometimes i think bad service stories are just examples of people having a sense of entitlement about how they should be served (possible challop maybe).

personally i don't mind or notice weak service too much, let alone get pissed off about it, because people working tables often get overwhelmed or maybe they're new on the job, i dunno. "our service was so bad at this restaurants, i must go on about it at length" is becoming one of my new pet peeves. maybe i'm alone in this one.

yea it's def annoying. i've had a few service experiences that made me really mad, but that's about it.

I'll take bad service at restaurants, I think, cuz listening to people bitch about bad service at restaurants is incredibly annoying.

yeah service complainers are worse and more common than bad service

BUT it's different when they actually complain at the restaurant. i don't know if it's better or worse.

http://sf.eater.com/archives/2008/08/06/bartender_throws_pint_glass_at_nontipping_yelpers_fulfills_dark_fantasies_of_restaurant_owners_every.php

i think sending something back because it's undercooked or noting dirty dishes is cool but if you get bitchy about it you can fuck off imo

yah i mean i'd rather send it back than whine about it later

at a good restaurant where you have high expectations, bad service can be a real downer. But I guess when I think of bad service in that context, I mean a lack of knowledge of the establishment's food/menu/chef and/or a lack of familiarity with food in general.

A slow pace, forgetfulness or brusqueness don't usually bother me too bad unless extreme.

"i think sending something back because it's undercooked or noting dirty dishes is cool but if you get bitchy about it you can fuck off imo"

Technically these aren't service complaints.

the customer is usually wrong i think

well, i think the way you cook something/clean something constitutes service

yeah technically but it sort of falls under the same category b/c people overreact in the same way

this thread's category that is

once we were at a place where they gave my boyfriend a dirty water glass, so we asked for another. and then that one had lipstick all over it. we just left

The friends of mine who complain the most are the former restaurant workers.

But now I'm complaining about people who complain too much.

xxxpost Yeah except your server isn't doing either of those things.

I actually hate the chain restaurant's conception of "good service." ie at Chili's once when the freaking waitress SAT DOWN at our table when we were ordering. To be friendly? To creep me out, really.

I like a place with not especially fastidious service so long as the leave me a pitcher of water when I request it.

I mean is complaining about bad food the same as complaining about bad service?

omg no she didn't

xp

Sitting down at a table is a serious serving no no.

The thread title is "service," not "servers," and bad service certainly includes responding badly to lipstick-smeared glasses.

i don't think it's the same, alex, but it's similar, obviously. and the server gets the brunt of it all, poor thing

right xp

I'd reckon not, Alex. I always try to separate the two as the server ≠ cook. And thank god. Line cooks are about as dreggy as truckers IMO.

there is a price point at which the "you guys" thing will turn me off

My advice for everyone in the world, especially women, is "stay away from line cooks!"

i still think about this one time i ordered a steak. when i order a steak i want like a hot sizzling steak. well it was cold, and buried under greens, and i didn't say anything :(

Are "Yelpers" really some kind-of identifiable subculture?

I love servers (seemingly all of them) who have cultivated this magic ability to ask about your meal when you have a giant mouthful of food. "Thumbs up, I guess."

YES abbott otm

I hate these people. "I was not treated like royalty, and the servers were not pleasurebots. This is an outrage!"

people that YELP are scumbags.

i always do the nod/half-smile xp

Friends in the biz have told me that some restaurants train their servers to ask about the food when the customer's chowin' down it; they're less likely to complain right then, which is the best time.

i've never complained at a restaurant. really as long as the food meets expectations, the staff can be as surly or slow as they like. it's irksome when your table seems to be forgotten but 100% that's happened to me, the staff have been profusely apologetic when they realised.

Dirty glasses (depending on the restaurant) and dishes (rarely) can be a server's responsibility. Responding to requests for clean items/cooked food = definitely service. Under-cooked food? No.

Friends in the biz have told me that some restaurants train their servers to ask about the food when the customer's chowin' down it; they're less likely to complain right then, which is the best time.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:26 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i don't really get how this would benefit the restaurant? if people are mad about something, they'll still be mad about it even if they don't voice it. and if the restaurant doesn't care, why don't they just tell their staff not to ask?

Stay away from line cooks!

"I am subservient to the power of others at my job, at every job I've ever had, so bitching about service and possibly denying the servers tip money is the only way I'll ever get a taste of power in the workplace." or "I hold power at my job, am use to having people kowtow to me, and so bitching about perceive poor service is like breathing to me"

Dirty glasses (depending on the restaurant) and dishes (rarely) can be a server's responsibility. Responding to requests for clean items/cooked food = definitely service. Under-cooked food? No.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:28 PM (16 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it doesn't really matter -- i think the issue is if and when you make a big stink about it

If I get really bad service in a restaurant then I don't complain, but I don't go back either. If I get middling bad service in a restaurant that I like in other ways then I just think "oh well, nobody's perfect" and put up with it.

A real gripe is people who go to cheapass restaurants and then complain about getting cheapass service.

I'm not crazy about when the server sits down in the booth or takes a knee next to the table. They say that if the server gets on eye-level with the patrons, tips will increase, but it certainly doesn't influence me like that.

well, i think if it's a place you like, and you feel they overlooked something, i think they would appreciate knowing it.

Former and current restaurant workers are the biggest sticklers for proper service; my sister the waitress can become extremely annoyed if:

1. People get ignored for more than a few minutes when it's time to order.
2. Cutlery, glassware and plates are dirty - she always checks that her orders go out clean and doesn't like waitrons who don't do this.
3. In a busy restaurant, when it takes a load of time to get the check/attract the attention of her server to do so. She would probably murder half of British waiters as a result, if ever in the UK.

Waitstaff are instantly 10000x friendlier in busy times if the customer says something like 'hey, you guys are slammed' to communicate even a shred of sympathy or shared experience of serving.

Your sister is annoying.

Unless someone is deliberately ignoring me, I just assume that a waitperson is busy and they'll get to me as soon as they have a chance.

there's this one server at the deli down the block -- she's SO BRUSQUE, like i've witnessed people walk in there specifically to complain about her. and i used to be sensitive to that kind of thing but for some reason i just love it. i don't need much when i'm getting my coffee and stuff, i just need some efficiency.

My sister is annoying, but not about waitressing. If a place is busy it makes sense to turn tables when your diners are ready to go, not 10 minutes later.

I don't conflate 'server' with 'servant' and I tip on the high side.

hey guys, the thread is not "complain about bad service in restaurants"

My favorite rude server story actually involves ILX0rs!

In a busy restaurant, when it takes a load of time to get the check/attract the attention of her server to do so. She would probably murder half of British waiters as a result, if ever in the UK.

this actually really bugs me. when i'm done with my meal, i like to go. i generally try and ask for the check early.

"my cheese fry"

"If a place is busy it makes sense to turn tables when your diners are ready to go, not 10 minutes later."

You are annoying too.

uh no, you're not annoying, suzy

someone i know works in a restaurant at a gaming club which offers an indifferent hot buffet in bain-maries and she recently had a customer of about eight plate whose plate was loaded with soggy potato gems and glistening roast beef and greasy fried rice and khaki-coloured broccoli who sat up straight-backed in his booth and said grandly, 'my compliments to the chef'.

You think that servers are deliberately holding you check or some shit?

"I'll just pretend to be busy now so I don't have to bring that check to table four. Hah that'll show them!"

I don't understand at all how so many people can go to restaurants for pleasure? Seriously! It is a terrible experience that you have to pay for.

I kind of don't enjoy the experience of being at a restaurant, more often than not. But I like the food part of it.

I tend to tip around 20% for anything north of "acceptable" service. If it's crappy (hostile, dangerously inept, etc.), I'll take it down to 10%. Only on very rare occasionals have I gone lower or simply not tipped at all -- criminally bad service almost never happens, IME. And I've never complained. I figure most people know when they're fucking up.

I wouldn't let food quality influence my tip, so long as the service is decent. I've rarely complained about bad food, and then only when asked sincerely (usually at restaurants that have only recently been opened, in response to questions from the chef/owner/manager).

That said, people who routinely complain about bad service/unacceptable food are THEE WORST.

"you guys" price point is otm! seems like you get more "you guys" per dollar the farther you get from a major city. i've never had a waitress actually SIT DOWN AT THE BOOTH WTF where does this happen?

complaining about service after the fact is a lot more annoying than bad service of course, unless the bad service story is funny and/or involves idiocy/drunkenness on the servee's part.

"our service was so bad at this restaurants, i must go on about it at length" is becoming one of my new pet peeves. maybe i'm alone in this one.

― my fingers is a jellyfish (omar little), Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:07 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

NO YOU'RE NOT ALONE I FUCKING HATE THOSE PEOPLE

srsly I think it says a lot about someone's character

so may memories returning...

The fine-dining restaurants I have worked at have specifically trained waiters not to bring the check until it is asked for. After all, if someone is paying $20-100+ per person, they should not be told at what time they are finished enjoying their meal. Some waiters trained in this way do find their way to more casual restaurants, and may continue to follow this rule even if the restaurant is more lenient about bringing the check. Many are also trained not to bring the check before all food, plates and utensils have been cleared. If someone asked me for the check at the exact moment they finished eating, I would print the check, grab someone else to help me clear the table if I couldn't do it myself, clear the table, and then present the check. Even when I was serving burgers. In many of the cases of complaint in terms of waiting for the check, the person complaining does not understand these rules ("Why isn't he/she bringing the check?"), is unable or unwilling to simply collaborate in the process with the waiter by simply asking for the check ("I shouldn't have to ask for the check!"), or both ("Check Please!" he screamed, and then, quietly to his friends, said "I am going to fuck this guy on the tip.") Most waiters, will, once the table has been bussed down to napkins and unfinished drinks, ask "IS there anything else I can get for you this afternoon/evening". If you want the check, now is the time. If you say no, don't be surprised to be taken literally.

Anyways, people who complain after the fact are the worst, people who complain multiple times during a meal are slightly better, and people who complain only once are fine. You see, the rule is, at least for me, the customer is always right... THE FIRST TIME! the only reason to complain is to do it towards some end. the only end that can be served if you have left the restaurant without complaining is shitting on other people and making yourself feel better about yourelf. also, if you didnt speak up, how are you to know if the mistake that occured is a common one or just a one-off. not going back to a place simply for one mistake is silly, unless the mistake obviously revealed deeper, structural issues. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Handy breakdown:
Bad service: Malice or incompetence or busy?
If malice, is it because of something you have done or the waiter's predisposition. If the former, you have no right to undertip. If the latter, speak to the manager. It is your responsibility, and if you don't take it, you are just as much a part of the problem as the waiter. Undertipping the server and badmouthing the restaurant after the fact are just as classless as your waiter. Waiters only get paid $2 an hour, all of which is eaten up by taxes (my most common checks said "THIS IS NOT A CHECK". Anyways, by not complaining, you are avoiding free food and or drinks. IDIOT.

If incompetence, I guess it boils down to sympathy. Was your night actually ruined?

If it is busy, it is just that. Either you came at exactly the same time as everyone else or they are understaffed. It is YOUR fault if the former is the case (seriously, if only because the times are so damn predictable. if you are used to going out at 8pm and getting shitty service, try 7:15 or 8:45. you will be surprised!). If it is the latter, it is either because someone is sick and could not be replaced, or the manager didnt put enough people on the schedule. In none of the above cases is undertipping valid.

Lastly, the more you are spending on your meal, the more responsible the server is for the correctness of the preparation of the food. If a waiter at a $50 a plate steakhouse cannot tell the doneness of a steak without cutting it open, they should not be working there. Also, at the better steakhouses such as this, your steak might be warm instead of hot because high-quality steaks benefit from a period of settling. Don't ask me why, but, after a full two weeks of steak training at my last house, I could tell the difference.

A for bartenders, if you order 5 drinks, say a gin and tonic, a martini, a manhattan, and two beers, and the bartender proceeds to use one hand while making each drink individually, they suck, and should be canned and replaced by me immediately. If they ice all the glassware necessary, grab the beers, and then proceed to build each drink, taking advantage of like ingredients (ie if it is the same gin in both the G+T and martini, the bottle should be used for both drinks before being put down), and uses both hands, then they are a rockstar and your slow service is due to not enough bartenders behind the bar or due to physics. It takes time to pour liquid out of a bottle. In either case, tip the bartender correctly.

Sorry to rant but I had 4 years of being alternately treated like shit or venerated hundreds of times per night. And I might be doing it again soon.

If incompetence, I guess it boils down to sympathy. Was your night actually ruined?

Needs:
Was it an obvious issue? Did the waiter apologize when you brought the issue up? Did you even bring it up?

Great post, except malice of server does not obligate me to talk to anyone. Maybe if I want to, I will, but my responsibility ends at paying the bill.

well... if you plan on making a stink about it, you should do it at the right time. if the waiter tells you to go fuck yourself, and you just leave without tipping and dont return, that is different. i am really more reacting to people who are looking to hold a grudge or be shitty to other people.

i don't really get how this would benefit the restaurant? if people are mad about something, they'll still be mad about it even if they don't voice it. and if the restaurant doesn't care, why don't they just tell their staff not to ask?

*shrugs* I don't get it either. Maybe they figure that with a full mouth the customer is distracted..."

there's a particular restaurant downtown at which i have had consistently mediocre to awful service -- ranging from being kept waiting for unreasonable amount of time before ordering or while waiting for the check, to the server rushing off before i could complete my order, to just receiving the wrong food. i've given the place a couple chances because, hey, one or two shitty waiters or a mixed-up order does not a bad restaurant make.

however, when it comes to receiving poor service from different servers over a period of months, it becomes a question of management. at that point (and usually not before) i will make a point of telling other people to avoid the place because the service is bad.

and no, i don't stiff on tips.

you have it exactly right.

at least, that is the correct practice if you choose not to complain. i think really the rule is no tip should be justified by mentioning something to someone, and if you choose not to talk and to tip, but are still unhappy, elsewhere is the best choice.

You can always pay, leave and never return to a restaurant with bad service whereas people who take pleasure in whinging about service or whatever it is, one cannot avoid.

TS: Avoiding bad restaurants vs avoiding annoying friends

Opening post pretty much OTM.

p.s. it was a cuban restaurant and the last time i was there the server did not supply, or ask if we wanted, hot sauce. it was the final straw, but i didn't exactly get upset about it.

i think the moral of the story is just that choosing whether or not to say something about bad service is a choice independent of the bad service itself and one must take responsibility for that action independently as well.

Anyways, unless someone wants to discuss procedural issues of multi-cocktail executions, I need to leave for a while. (and after all this BS i still think bartending was the most fun i ever had, at least once it was just us employees chain-smoking, drinking whiskey and flashing each other after you lot were gone ;-) )

xpost did you ask for the hot sauce? i have never been to a cuban restaurant. is it assumed it will come out?

lol that sounds fun

Cuban food doesn't get hot sauce!!

if you need hot sauce, that's some weak-ass Cuban food.

i've never had cuban

I love going out to eat, am rarely served badly, and thus do not need to complain much.

OTOH the worst recent experience I had was accompanying restaurant-critic friend to an establishment for review. We had a 90 minute slot (argh) which turned into a 75 minute slot because the waiter disappeared for 15 minutes before taking our order and still insisted on turning our table by 9 in a half-empty restaurant. We saw this as a management problem because of the table-turning issue and the critic in question parlayed the experience into a London-wide campaign against table-turning in the newspaper he worked for.

dude, it's providence. of course it's weak.

to be honest, though, it's more of a theme restaurant than actual cuban cuisine.

xpost

these themed cuban/tex mex places are not my bag

P.S. on the plane last weekend, it was refreshment time, and i asked for a coke. so she's like ok, but then she just walks off with the cart! like to the other end of the plane! i never got my coke.

With the check being brought automatically vs having to ask issue, there's alos cultural differences, no? Like in some (all?) Asian countries it's viewed as rude for a restaurant to bring it w/o being asked. I think most Japanese and Chinese places here have adapted to the American way of auto check bringing, but almost every, say, Vietnamese place I've been to you can sit there for hours and a check will never be brought.

Surm, see 'Waitress In The Sky' by The Replacements.

The only check-getting thing that bugs me is when you try and try to get your server's attention to ask for the bill and it seems like they're in a forcefield of not looking at you.

Haha yes it took me a while to figure that out at this one Vietnamese place, to the point where I got a reputation as the weird girl who would sit not eating for 45 minutes (I had nothing better to do).

xp

i review restaurants and i have VERY few memories of really bad service... and i don't think it's ever made it into my column. the only one i can remember, which was not on the job, was a sommelier at a fancy NYC restaurant who argued with us about whether the bottle was corky or not (it clearly was. and that is a big no-no.)

Ha ha, slock, what an ass!

seriously

Thirded.

My friend didn't fully review the restaurant in question, he just said they did a 90 minute flip at a destination restaurant on a Saturday night two weeks into the credit crunch.

"(it clearly was. and that is a big no-no.)"

Arguing about it, is crazy! Just give you a new bottle of wine and dude and the servers can drink the corky one if they think it's actually good!

again, customer is always right the first time. "sommelier" should be taking out trash instead.

prolly is by now

yup... you can always give a corky bottle back to the distributor no questions asked (at least in my experience)

my mom is still mad about that night

Last night I was in a Japanese place and all the tables were taken and there was this one extremely depressed looking woman, overweight and slovenly (and reading "Wake Up, I'm Fat!") who was sitting by herself and had obviously long finished her meal. The waitress kept apologizing to us and said something like "There is one lady sitting by herself," but she wouldn't disturb the woman. In a way I appreciated that even though I had to wait longer.

Whereas I know of a well-respected (if not exactly well-beloved) sommelier who recommended a bottle of wine to a couple who asked. He didn't, however, serve the wine, and later when he checked, he noticed that they hadn't had more than a third of the bottle. He checked it and sure enough it was corked. It was an expensive white Burgundy and he ended up calling them to offer them a refund or a credit.

wow xp

that's incredibly depressing/outrageously funny

cool move.

http://www.gamerange.com/images/diner-dash/diner-dash-2.jpg

despite a job that im sure most people associated with major snobbiness, all the sommeliers i know are totally awesome passionate people

As a side note, after she left my dinner companions realized that we could not figure out what the title "Wake Up, I'm Fat!" is supposed to mean. Is it "Hey, you judgmental people, wake up and accept me!" or "Hey you, fat person, wake up and realize that you're fat [and accept yourself? and lose weight?]" or is it "Hey you, reader, wake up to the fact that I, the author, am fat!"

I was at a steakhouse a few months ago a table sent back a very expensive bottle of wine they thought was corked. It wasn't, but the restaurant took it back anyway. I got to have some of it with a sommelier friend at the bar. Thanks!

And it was @nn C0ulter5's table!

Wake Up, I'm Fat, Make Me a Twinkie Sandwich

lol i bet she LIKES corky wine and cant stand good stuff xp

all the sommeliers i know are totally awesome passionate people

It's about 10% snob - 90% awesome, imo, and the ones I know whom I don't care for, I wouldn't care for regardless of what they did.

All the sommeliers I know are awesome. All the restaurant managers I know who are clearly trying to play sommelier are insufferable.

The couple of times I had corked wine, the act of the sending it back seemed like the most embarrassing thing ever (that said I've still done it.) Which is totally my hang up, but still I understand the white Burgundy couple.

I met 3ric b34um4rd the last time I was in Paris and then had dinner with him here in SF. Truly awesome guy.

Wake Up, I'm Fat

bad service happens to undeserving people at restaurants. yet other people -- including some of my relatives-by-marriage -- summon bad service by being overly demanding.

With the check being brought automatically vs having to ask issue, there's alos cultural differences, no? Like in some (all?) Asian countries it's viewed as rude for a restaurant to bring it w/o being asked. I think most Japanese and Chinese places here have adapted to the American way of auto check bringing, but almost every, say, Vietnamese place I've been to you can sit there for hours and a check will never be brought.

― expletive for lady parts (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:23 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

By the way this is the same in Ireland. It's kinda seen as a really cheeky way to get people out of the restaurant at the end of the night, bringing the bill without being asked.

A handful of times when I've been out with my family, the service will not meet their expectations for whatever reasons, and so my parents or grandparents or whoever will sit there for the last ten or fifteen minutes and try and reason out the exact degree to which they should undertip the server. It is basically the most agonizing way to spend ten or fifteen minutes. Sometimes, because of this, if I feel that the service was vaguely bad but I didn't say anything about it or have it really like, ruin the meal, I will slightly overtip.

If it is busy, it is just that. Either you came at exactly the same time as everyone else or they are understaffed. It is YOUR fault if the former is the case (seriously, if only because the times are so damn predictable. if you are used to going out at 8pm and getting shitty service, try 7:15 or 8:45. you will be surprised!).

I am surprised and glad nobody took offense to this one. So many places I have worked, everyone would show up at EXACTLY 8pm. "Busy" has little to do with how many people are sitting down for dinner, and a lot to do with what order they sat down in. If I was able to at least provide menus, provide water, discuss specials and take drink orders before my next table, I could continue to take tables ad infinitum (so actually 7:52 is enough of a window to ensure a better experience, never mind the 45 minute differences listed above). Whereas if two tables arrive at almost the exact time, I will be at the beginning of the above process right while someone is tapping their toes and wondering whether 10% is too much. If a server were ever to kill a host, "double-sat" are the last words that host will have heard.

I went to a wine bar in a hotel that my best friends go to every year for their anniversary. We got there before everyone else so I moseyed up to the bar and ordered the house chardonnay and asked for soda water in it.

The snooty Ukranian bar dude eyed me like a leper and said "WHYYYY? it is good wine, why do you want to RUIN IT?". I couldn't tell if he had a very dry sense of humour or was being an asshole, so I tried to be polite and chuckle it off, but jesum crow, ok, I'm not appreciative of your fucking posh wine but I can't stomach strong chardonnays straight!

I didn't complain mind you. I tried to be nice and play off his odd ... humour. Everyone else said they thought he was cool/funny so maybe I'm bad at reading ppl.

I dont complain about anything, I can get the wrong dish and I'll just eat it. I hate being That Person.

btw this thread was partly inspired by checking out yelp reviews of places i've been to and reading all about how a bunch of people with entitlement issues think that bad service is anything short of, i dunno, being constantly complimented on how hot you are by the wait staff or something. i guess bad service also includes any time your server seems to be in a bad mood.

I seem to hear a lot of complaining about customer service everywhere in DC and it's really unpleasant, and I can't think of anywhere I've had a problem actually, it doesn't seem worth getting bent out of shape over things.

one former colleague of mine was always going on about bad customer service in this city, but she is in fact a yelper

I wouldn't be me if I didnt try and tie everything in a tenuous manner to larger social forces...
I always wonder what percentage of serial complainers grew up in the 'burbs only going to chain restaurants while they were growing up? Because a lot of these complaints seem to come form people who don't seem to be able to socialize with people they don't already know, and who expect obsequious and entertaining service. Most of the customers I can remember who were unhappy were weirdly passive about it. Like "I'm sure the waiter knows there are fruit flies in my beer and is trying to get away with it.". These tables, when I would go up and check on them, would always give me this weird look like I was somehow being dishonest, like I was violating their personal space or something. I can only help someone once they express their desires. I am not a TV, I can't tell them what they want all the time. That is why I really do advocate communication. You only come of as a jerk when you complain about something unreasonable, and the only way to figure out what is reasonable or not is to talk to your waiter. "Does X come with Y?" It is a socialization process, and a collaborative one. If you are polite and your expectations are reasonable, they will be taken care of. So speak up.

You can't go to china and Yelp about people talking to you in Mandarin instead of English. You can't go to the hospital and tell them everything is fine and then bitch to St. Peter that the doctor didn't save you from your heart attack.

(btw the whole suburb thing is not some class-based snobbery. I didn't have my bris at Le Cirque)

DC is one of the town I have worked in years ago. it is the weirdest combination of one of the most professional service staffs in the country and the customer base with the biggest sense of entitlement. congratulations you are interning for a corrupt Rep from bumfuck, you asshole. I did the same thing once and I know all you do is open the mail and gain all of your self-importance living vicariously through the actual policymakers in your office, the ranks of which you will probably never join.

Yeah, I think there are certain people -- especially in Yelp-style reviews -- who complain about service almost as a way of making themselves sound really refined and knowledgeable, like there are secret restaurant standards about how long a water glass can be empty that they're very attuned to, or something like that.

But personally, the only thing I ever really consider "bad" about service is when stuff takes forever and ever, and I am STILL constantly winding up places where the service annoys me, so ... I dunno. At least once a month I wind up sitting there for 30 minutes trying to catch a server's attention to get a check. (Once, at a somewhat "nice" place, I waited about 15 minutes, asked the guy for a check, and didn't get one for another 30 minutes, and then the people next to me asked him for a check and he brought it straight out -- the only way I even managed to pay him was by showily walking out of the restaurant and then waiting on the sidewalk for him to come running after me! That is shit I will happily complain about, especially if it happens routinely at the same place.)

Oh, the other whiner problem with Yelp-type reviews is that you get people writing about some mid-priced practically-a-diner place but trying to do it in these high-flown terms, as if they're judging everything by the refined standards of folks with lots of fine-dining experience, and so their complaining is just pointing out the obvious: yeah, the "service" is not really exacting at the $15-a-plate bistro, how clever you are for noticing.

Can't believe that Hurting totally left out the part about the WUIF book being written by Camryn Manheim.

I just looked up my sister's workplace on Yelp and, surprise surprise, nobody can fault the service.

complain about service almost as a way of making themselves sound really refined and knowledgeable

absolutely. i mean obviously if you're at a fine dining establishment you pay a premium for service, and there are plenty of standards and protocols to ensure consistency at such places. that said, you got no right to bitch if the theme-rastaurant waiter didn't clear your plate from the right.

rastaurant

hmmm....

I'm guessing it'd be hard to serve Ital in large quantities

the only way I even managed to pay him was by showily walking out of the restaurant and then waiting on the sidewalk for him to come running after me!

Ha ha! Excellent.

lol

I have done that twice in my life, and by the time you've seriously decided to do it, you're usually fuming enough that it's not even much fun. (Okay, it's still a little fun.) But my big fear is that one day no one will come after me, and I'll have to decide whether or not to just go home.

That reminds me: when you see people seated after you get 'better' service for no discernible reason, as above, how can you not feel somehow slighted?

If I'm eating alone and there's a larger party getting better service -- like a clearly out-for-dinner, well-dressed, bottle-of-wine party -- I don't really sweat it . . . but yeah, if I fucking ask for a check and don't get it for thirty minutes, and it takes you thirty seconds to get one for the people next to me, then I just flat-out hate you.

I had an ongoing fight with a waiter in my old neighborhood, because ... okay, he once gave me really lazy and obviously non-fuck-giving service, then took forever with the check, and then when he did bring the check he just kept the change, the coins, which pissed me off, so I was kinda like "fine, that's your tip, then." (This was a dick move, I know.) The next time I ate there, he served me, brought me some soup, and then kept coming back and saying "how's that soup taste? does that soup taste good?" in this really creepy way that makes me pretty sure I've consumed one or more of his bodily fluids.

I was also once the only person eating in a restaurant, and my waiter started having his own dinner during the downtime, and when I asked him for a check he was like "hold on a second, I'm eating."

I'm complaining about bad service now: is reading this as bad as having it happen to you?

i tend to not complain about bad service though once at an old-school italian joint in downtown manhattan my wife and I felt slighted by our waitress all evening and we were annoyed but resigned to it and kinda laughing cause she was fawning all over the other customers. everybody else in the place was visibly a long island type so we figured she thought we were yuppies or whatever. fine we won't come back. still the food wasn't too bad and it was a birthday or anniversary, some occasion, so we lingered and I ordered an after-dinner cognac. very specifically and clearly requested the basic corvousier. when the bill came the charge was for a $75 vintage brandy and I called the waitress over.

"there seems to be some mistake here. I didn't order this cognac."

"yes you did."

"no way. I don't even know how to pronounce it!"

"well you drank it! you have to pay for it."

I subtracted $75 from the bill and left no tip. we left under intense glares from the staff.

f1ll1 pont1 -- don't go there

nabisco's story so gross

I'm complaining about bad service now: is reading this as bad as having it happen to you?

No, 'cause you've taken care to inject some humor into your anecdotes.

I never have 'ongoing fight'-s with anybody in food service. I have enough choices not to have to and I do not want to be the unwitting recipient of anybody's bodily fluids.

xpost Your complaints are pretty legit, not the sort of ad nauseam bitching about a waitress not switching a pot of coffee the second you empty it. That waiter was a dick, not really what's been crucified here. I think.

when you see people seated after you get 'better' service for no discernible reason, as above, how can you not feel somehow slighted?

― wake up LIDL (suzy)

^^ this. Shh! has said a lot of OTM stuff in this thread, but (no offense) servers almost always take the side of servers in this debate. No surprise. Me, I eat out a lot -- or, at least, I used to when I had money to throw away. And I like nice, interesting, even challenging food. And I like super-capable, super-attentive service. And I like good contemporary design, etc. But I don't dress particularly well. And I don't look like the people who dine in the restaurants that intrigue me. As a result, I often feel conspicuously "different" in nice restaurants. I don't look homeless or smell bad (I think), but the culture gap is apparent.

All that might be no more than the imaginary crap in my head, but it does sometimes seem to have a real impact on service quality. I've occasionally (rarely) been very aggressively snubbed, sneered at, condescended to, and that in turn can leave me feeling pissed-off, less inclined to tip properly. Just saying.

nabisco story: YUCK! But dude, if you're gonna totally stiff a server, you have to write the joint off, at least for a year or two, maybe forever.

ya otherwise you're pretty much asking for splooge soup.

Haha yeah, I suppose "horrible extraordinary restaurant stories" is a much better category than "let me explain why I found the service lacking."

And Michael, yes, the saddest thing about the "ongoing fight" was that I spent a long time just avoiding the restaurant, but eventually some point would come where ... well, there were only so many places nearby, and eventually when it was cold and I was sick of other places and wanted duck, I'd have to go back with my tail between my legs. I hate being beaten by a restaurant like that, having to admit that I'm dependent on them, but there are always places I have long-term love-hate relationships with just because they're close or convenient.

'well you drank it...' deserves one loud, to-the-gallery 'if I throw up, do I get a refund?'

xpost - yeah, exactly, I tried to just swear off but couldn't

I have to admit, though, I kinda hate this! I want to live in some Utopia where you stiff a server and then next time you're back you talk through what went wrong and they do a better job, having gotten the message that you're not satisfied with their work. I mean, if I tip okay on the logic that I'm going to be back soon, I am just enabling the crappy soup-spitting waiter's laziness. (I ordered, like, steak with broccoli, and then he later brought out just the steak and went "oh, I forgot to tell you, we're out of broccoli.")

OK, that's where you call the manager and get the dude's ass fired. No excuse for vendettas with any paying customer.

There's a restaurant in the Marina not far from my gf's mom's place that we go to fairly frequently 'cause it's close and the food/value ratio isn't bad (it's the kind of mid-level Japanese place that Steve Shasta would avoid like the plague). For those who don't know, the Marina district is yuppyish and inordinately blonde and one evening we all went in for an early dinner (with a reservation) and the buxom and vacant-eyed hostess tried to seat us upstairs even though the ground floor was practically empty. I haven't been able to determine whether she was badly following orders to move people upstairs or was just a little viper who felt we weren't chic enough to merit sitting with the usual customers. We were firm about wanting to sit downstairs and we still continue to go there but every time, I steel myself for a polite but steely resistence to be shoved around by the b1^(&35 who they hire as hostesses.

for some reason the steak and broccoli reminds me of a recent coffee shop exchange. i order a lunch combo (soup and sandwich), go to the end of the counter to pick it up. dude hands me the basket, which also contains a cookie and pickle (included). i say, oh no pickle thanks, and he gets v serious and informs me that my refusal of the pickle has foretold its demise, and it will be thrown, and *wasted*. dude i hate pickles, and will throw it away myself if you give it to me, what the hell. 'you should've said no pickle when you ordered' and he petulantly threw it in the bin.

there are starving children in africa and here i am throwing away pickles god

lollll

well, there were only so many places nearby

I know I'm being simple-minded in this, but dude. Don't you live in NEW YORK CITY?

I mean, I can come up with a list of ten restaurants to eat lunch at to sustain me during a two-week period along with two or three "bonus" restaurants to rotate in there, and I work in DOWNTOWN LITTLE ROCK.

"there seems to be some mistake here. I didn't order this cognac."

Something like this happened to me, once, at a newly opened restaurant. I ordered a Calvados and ended up getting charged for the highest end they had, which was distinctly not what I had ordered. I paid but told the waiter that if this was going to be the kind of place that treated their clientele like rubes and stiffed them I wouldn't be coming back. The manager came over as we were leaving and gave me his card and said dessert was on the house should we change our minds - which I thought fair.

Oh, the steak/broccoli thing was the first time, the time I wound up stiffing him on the tip. Which was kinda dicky, but (a) broccoli, plus (b) he stole my change! He just pocketed like 80 cents!

PP - my old neighborhood didn't have a ton of great restaurants, and I was eating out a lot back then, and it was the middle of winter, and ... you get into a habit of cycling through all the restaurants in the immediate vicinity, you know? Especially when you get home from work late and just want something easy.

this thread was partly inspired by checking out yelp reviews of places i've been to and reading all about how a bunch of people with entitlement issues think that bad service is anything short of, i dunno, being constantly complimented on how hot you are by the wait staff or something. i guess bad service also includes any time your server seems to be in a bad mood.

I can't stand most online reviews of restaurants for this reason. Most of the bad reviews are self-involved rants that bear very little relation to the quality of the food.

the other half seem to be

We went into this place looking for a quick bite, and maybe a beer (or two LOL), and I'd have to say that I was pleasantly surprised! The food was pretty good (to us, anyway, I've never had ~INSERT ETHNIC~ before!) and the decor was pleasant and cheerful. Our waitress was nice, too! Overall, it was satisfying, and I'd definitely try it again if I'm in the neighborhood! :D

FIVE STARS

PERFECT RESTAURANT EXPERIENCE

Yeah, they are almost all useless.

xpost
in the case of nabisco's story it is hard not to feel slighted. i hate that sort of thing as a customer, especially as a former restaurant worker. My average tip is on the high side out of sympathy, and my etiquette is pretty well developed for dealing with servers and bartenders, so when I get bad service, I still may give 15-20% but that still means somebody lost out on an extra $20 or more depending on the size of the tab. I find I get my worst service when I am alone, especially at lunch if I am drinking water. It is a rookie server mistake to avoid this sort of person, but, as a veteran, and as someone who eats lunch alone a lot, I found it not only nice but also, easier and, honestly, more lucrative, to treat my solo guests well, even better than larger tables (after 3 or 4 people, serving larger tables becomes and exponentially more difficult, instead of arithmetically more difficult).

from the other side, what I remember is the numerous times I have been pulled away from serious requests (check, food and drink orders) for stupid stuff (more mustard for chocolate cake), or to hear some stupid joke. a lot of times what looks to be a table getting more attention is a server suffering through some lengthy anecdote a customer is dying to tell ("remember that time I was leaving the house and I couldn't find my hat and it was ON MY HEAD HAHHAHAHAHA"). this is another reason why engaging your server is worthwhile. if you notice your server suffering through a tough table, a wink and a joke about it will score you some big points towards your overall experience. at least that is how it was with me and everyone I worked with...

xpost x1000
yeah maybe i do seem to be taking the side of servers but really i am just taking the side of human beings. in most of the bad stories mentioned here, the servers were doing really stupid stuff. i cant support that.

I am also, though, trying to clue people in to ways they can have an awesome experience. At one of the places I worked, the whole house was like a big family. We would go out to special events together, and also hold huge private events at our bar every so often. Besides other service industry people, we would invite nice customers too. Unless you are in a situation in life where you don't need any more friends, or believe yourself to be too old to enjoy yourself, why not be open to this kind of opportunity? I am not saying it is ensured that if you tip 30% one night, the next you will be having sex with the hottest waiter or waitress on the staff. But I think, and did even before I waited tables, that it is really worthwhile to be nice and make a few acquaintances in the industry. Any bar or restaurant can be "Cheers" for you if you want, and you don't have to go every day or even write a cloying piece of theme music to go with it.

it is a bad idea to judge people by how they are dressed. i dont even think about it. i talk and i listen. the listening tells me all i need to know.

i think i am just mostly wary of gamesmanship. that whole "let's see how long this takes for this to happen" when something has not been asked for. I am sure i have forgotten to place a bottle of ketchup on table with a hamburger before. usually one of three things happens. either i walk back past the table and see the lack of ketchup and correct my mistake, or i am called over and told my mistake, at which point i will correct it immediately, or i never notice, and the issue is not brought up, at which point i can infer from the tip that either the customer didnt need ketchup (regular tip) or that the customer was just trying to play games and see if i would notice (low tip). how is the latter behavior appropriate in any way? it is the same pattern of behavior that breaks up relationships! i used to run a 30-40 person section with myself and one food runner and no host. the kitchen was down two flights of stairs. we were always packed. i didnt use pen or paper unless 6+ were seated at the same table. i stand by the fact that i delivered the correct drinks and correct food every single day, and i am not one of the better servers i know. BUT did i forget condiments? Sure. Shit happens.

xpost again
it is professional for a server or bartender to ask exactly what brand is being ordered with alcohol. 90% of the time this works as an up-sell. better to do that then overcharge and lose a tip or sell Zelko instead of Grey Goose.

maybe we're diverging into the yelp thread here, but my favorite reviews are the ones that fall into the non-experience category:

I heard great things about this place from friends and planned to go last friday, but it was crowded and there was an HOUR wait! I was hungry so I went somewhere else but the menu looked good.

THREE STARS

i guess bad service also includes any time your server seems to be in a bad mood.

^^^
I hate when I'm with someone who doesn't like something about the server's gait, or the look on his/her face, or read way too deeply into some comment, and then perceiving this as some kind of malice get all "I'm not tipping!" as soon as the waiter's gone and UGH I hate that so much. The only thing worse is when one of your drinking buddies has become convinced the Perkins overnight waitress is "into" him, no matter how many times you assure him that no, dude, she works for tips.

People like this should not be allowed to leave their houses. xp

xp

i like that one!

I went to a popular restaurant on the most popular night and it was busy! no we didnt have reservations!

In terms of getting a good experience at fine dining restaurants when you may be much younger (or older!) than the typical patrons, not be dressed as well, not spending as much money on wine, etc. the main thing is to engage the server a bit at the beginning to show that you're really interested in the food/place. The people who only go the restaurant as part of a special occasion and won't be coming back and are visibly nervous about being in a fine dining environment just aren't going to have a great time. Most servers in high end establishments are really proud of the place and what they serve, so they're happy to have patrons who give a damn about the food even if they're not spending as much as the jaded group at the expense account table.

Especially when you get home from work late and just want something easy.

"Hmmm. Don't feel like anything special tonight. Maybe I'll just go around the corner and have the soup de sperm from that waiter who hates me."

thread seems reasonable but i have a much harder time than y'all excusing demeanor issues, especially i-don't-like-your-face brusqueness that comes out of nowhere sets me off, maybe from being in cushy california, maybe cause i can be uncle leo-ish about possible racial/class slights sometimes. not talking about bartenders, i know they need to put on their game face or whatever. i didn't know all the bar etiquette upthread, it's useful for me but service people would do well to consider that the customers aren't necessarily being dicks when they violate arcane bar/restaurant protocol, we're not all jetsetters.

long-term love-hate relationships with just because they're close or convenient.

yeah there's a little cafe i go to near work with bad coffee, slow service and botched orders at least every other time i go there but they're friendly and the food is good, the management are always apologetic (and apathetic obv) and it doesn't put me out too much so i deal. they do seem to reserve their worst service for when i invite friends and coworkers, not making that mistake again.
oh and i'm not a complainer. i will send back the wrong order though trayce wtf! i ordered THAT cause i want THAT.

my gf works for menupages and those "perfect restaurant experience" reviews are frequently just PR bullshit. If the reviewer hits every. single. detail. of the dining experience with nothing but effusive, bland language you can assume it's a shill.

Excellent Eats!!

After a long stroll through the javits center car show, I decided to have some tasty italian dinner. The closest and most appealing place was La Bella Stella. I walked in and was greeted with kind and courteuos staff waiting to serve me. I sat down in the relaxed environment and enjoyed my meal to the fullest. The pasta had a different kick to it, like my grandmother used to make. I would gladly recommend it to my friends and family for some good classic italian food.

"Should I go with 'different' or 'like my grandmother used to make'? Ah, fuck it, I'll use both, that's not a contradiction, is it?"

In terms of getting a good experience at fine dining restaurants when you may be much younger (or older!) than the typical patrons, not be dressed as well, not spending as much money on wine, etc. the main thing is to engage the server a bit at the beginning to show that you're really interested in the food/place.

-- I DIED

Yeah, I no. I understand the situation, so no big deal. But every once in a while, folks seem to make it more uncomfortable than necessary:

Hostess reacts awkwardly, but recovers. Seated at weird twilight-zone table. Wait forever for service, which is initially either brusque (bad) or charmingly baffled (good). Go through some friendly chit-chat to establish existence rights, but only if things seem to be trending well. Otherwise just order and hope to see server at least once between the rushed food drop-off and the pay-me-money-now part. Smiles appear somewhere in the vicinity of the check. That kind of thing...

It bugs me that I should have to work to win over the people I'm paying money to make me happy. Then again, the cold reality of the situation isn't lost on me. Shabbily dressed people probably don't tend to order as much or to tip as well. And a fish out of water in any situation is likely to be treated like one. *shrug*

Ah, fuck it, I'll use both, that's not a contradiction, is it?

Not if nonna mistook the grappa for olive oil.

i respect the fact he couldn't bring himself to lie about his grandmothers's nationality

exactly

Yeah, I no. I understand the situation, so no big deal. But every once in a while, folks seem to make it more uncomfortable than necessary:

There are plenty of places like this, too - they are the bad ones! It's their job to try make sure you're comfortable and enjoying yourself, some places get really stuffy about it and forget that entirely.

i can only think of a few times i've ever had really bad restaurant service. once i was with my friend, who ordered crab legs. they were really spongy (which i guess is bad; i don't know since i don't eat seafood), and he asked the waiter if he could send them back and order something else instead... the waiter looked flustered and got the manager, who grabbed the crab legs off my friends plate, bent them back and forth, declared that they were fine, and put them back. i was shocked. he said he wouldn't pay for them, and they did end up taking them off the bill, although he had to argue about it before they conceded. the only other time that was really egregious was when i went out for lunch with my grandfather (who had alzheimer's disease following a stroke)... he always ate at the same place for lunch every day for the last 5 years of his life, and this time, these girls stood around arguing about who was going to wait on our table, since he was kind of hard to understand and had various old-person issues. they were clearly within earshot, and he looked so sad and hurt that i wanted to kill them all. my mom got really mad and talked to the manager, although i don't know if they got fired or whatever.

aside from those two times, even when i get bad service, i tip 20% or more, since i figure the person is probably just having a bad day. i mean, it just seems so awful to be having a terrible day and then to have to go play nice with a bunch of dickweeds ordering food.

it seems like my role these days to pipe up about how france is different so my apols if i'm like a broken record, but i find it fascinating how restaurants in france are (generally) a complete 180 from american restaurants in terms of who is "king".

in france, the staff is king. you are merely a guest in their house of (presumptive) deliciousness. the waiters don't smile, they barely seem acknowledge your existence - though they ARE generally very fast and actually quite attentive. i've always been amazed by how one can sit down at a sidewalk terrace of perhaps sixty chairs, with eighty more inside, and within a minute, three minutes tops, you've got a guy in a white shirt and black trousers coming out to ask you what you want.

another amazing thing is how you can actually snap your fingers and/or shout "garcon!!" and it's not considered rude

one lubricating factor in this arrangement is a guaranteed built-in service charge of 12.5%

no no no no you can't say "garçon" that is not done!

I can't tell if Tracer is joking or not.

i'm not! tone of voice counts, of course

i mean i dunno, i'm just speaking from my own experience with native parisians which to me = SCIENCE

Oh well, you have more than me. It's just that all I ever hear is people saying "Don't believe your French GCSE text books - French waiters do not appreciate being summoned with "Garcon!". Raising a finger and saying "S'il vous plait monsieur" seems to be the general advice, which corresponds with what I've seen done (though often without the s'il vous plait").

yeah sorry - "garcon" is just for cafes!! there's a vast world of status difference between the waiters in a restaurant and the dudes who scoot around cafe tables

oh, I didn't say that in Parisian cafés, I would say 'monsieur, s'il vous plaî'

plaît

^^ forgetting html for the accents..

yeah "garcon" is pretty old skool but i think the old guys kind of secretly dig it

garcon means boy

yep

and uh an important caveat, if you're not french you should not say it - ca ne marche pas

I think maybe they should make clones of my sister to be a hostess at every restaurant. She is really, really good, but when she fucks up, she is so adorably ditzy (for lack of a better word) that it's hard to be like, "wtf was her problem?" She rectifies the problem, naturally, but in an endearingly goofy way. I guess it helps that she's really attractive and fancy.

i'm beginning to think bad service that is actually worthy of bashing or the phrase "i will never go there again" is fictional.

well it's more like "I will never go there again (until you win and I have to)"

and that's just in areas you're in a lot anyway -- if the service is horrible anyplace that involves significant walking, hardly anyone will go out of their way to have it again!

i have uttered the phrase because the service was really that bad

only re: one particular place, i don't make a habit of writing off dining establishments

generally i have a really high tolerance for "bad" service, but there was one place in town that i said "i will never go there again" about. i never went there again, then they closed, because they had bad service.

Never going to one place again because they got something wrong literally every time they came over (told us the wrong specials, no spoon for soup, wrong cutlery for main course too, wrong drinks twice, my drink to wrong table twice, epic waits). But the thing stopping us going back is not really any of the above but that they also got the bill wrong, in our favour - quit while you're ahead

(also it is within a few minutes' walk of tens of other restaurants)

bad service that is actually worthy of bashing or the phrase "i will never go there again" is fictional.

suggest ban permalink

i never went back to that $75 cognac place.

there are a couple places here in the neighborhood I boycott because of jerky service

sometimes i will give it a pass and try again, esp if the food was good...but if the service was shitty and the food was just mediocre at best why even go back?

tbqf i have also never lived in nyc other than for 9 months in the mid 90s

anyway i exaggerate but i was just at a french place in l.a. where i had the same server and the same level of service as a couple sitting next to me and the service was really nice, but they complained to the hostess and manager about the server and complained their way into a free dessert and free wine, neither of which they bothered touching, left while vocally expressing that they wouldn't be leaving a tip so i doubled mine.

Some people are just sniffy.

To be honest I don't think I've ever had a service problem at a place nice enough that service is a major expectation -- my main experience of service issues is regular old casual-dining places where it takes an hour and a half to get in and out because nobody ever bothers serving you.

(Also, servers who make the bizarre assumption that if you are reading a book, that means you don't need a check)

yeah i mean that shit bugs me out too but i can't really get too mad about it, i feel like it's almost built-in to the DNA of those kinds of joints

ha i was gonna add that i live in nyc

omar my la relatives (in-laws) sometimes act like those people you sat next to. maybe it's regional

i always feel bad about servers in those situations too, because they have to basically take it on the chin and smile

Sometimes I think that tipping / bar and restaurant service threads are ilx / nyc equivalents of weather / traffic conversations in other (suburban) places. We all sort of agree, but act as if our own anecdotes and minor observational differences do something other than pass time...

(Also, servers who make the bizarre assumption that if you are reading a book, that means you don't need a check)

― nabisco, Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah, this happens! i think they are trying to be nice? it's weird, though.

i've said this before, but in Ireland at least, it is really rude for the waiter to give you your check unless you ask for it. At restaurants where I have worked you only do it with the lingering tables to try and make them leave.

eh, yeah, you always have to ask for the cheque. In my experience.

If you're a good customer, you ask for your cheque when a server asks if there's anything else, or collects your dessert plates. What I'm irked by is the disappearing server who is suddenly nowheresville and your whole table does Meerkats United looking for someone, anyone because you need to leave. If you're a good server, you scan your section every few minutes to make sure your customers aren't going swivelhead because they need something.

Worse: so you've got your check, and it takes them 20 minutes to collect the payment in a lunch service, while you sit there white-rabbiting on your general lateness in the real world outside.

Last week, waiting for the check to drop:

http://www.boingboing.net/images/meercats.jpg

i'm actually quite fond of the brusque, no-nonsense waitstaff that many people consider "rude" -- i totally get that sometimes eating a meal is just a transaction, and i'm fine with that. i'm also not into vapid socializing that's obviously tip-baiting. if the server wants to have a deep conversation about the sourcing of the prosciutto, i'm all ears, but if he or she is just yapping, not good.

i'm appreciative of great service, but i don't expect it as a baseline. it's more like a nice surprise.

I've worked as a waiter and I once explained my entire BA thesis to a table for some reason.

They said they were Modernists

so there are some places that are for me just "transaction" places. on a different tack, there are also a couple of restaurants in town where the owner goes out of his way to build a strong rapport with his customers (bringing over little extras on the house of things he's proud of, taking a REAL interest in how we're enjoying the food, etc). i like going to those places because it ends up being about more than good food or service, it's about wanting to support a cool local business that's trying to be part of the community.

there's a sushi place near me where my friend and i both received the wrong orders. we mentioned it, they said "sorry," we ate what we were given, paid and tipped normally...but it's in an area where there are enough food options that we probably won't go back. it wasn't horrifying, we're not holding grudges, but we don't really have much incentive to return.

(xpost) i think it's a universal rule that you get far superior service when your server happens to be the person that owns the place (or is a high-level manager). they genuinely want your business, unlike the usual young & indifferent FOH snotheads.

If you're a good customer, you ask for your cheque when a server asks if there's anything else, or collects your dessert plates. What I'm irked by is the disappearing server who is suddenly nowheresville

Yes, if it's not clear, this is what I mean by the check not arriving -- servers who retire to the other end of the restaurant or just wander blithely around but do not even look in your direction so you can do the standard check-needing charades moves. I do not expect to just be presented with a check without asking for it unless I'm at a cheap diner, but I do feel like if the meal is done being eaten, it's good form for the server to come check if you'd maybe like to (a) order more food or (b) pay and leave.

And yeah, horseshoe, I think the book thing is definitely some kind of attempt to be cool and let you sit and read as long as you want -- the problem is that I'm probably reading because the check is taking so long (and then having your eyes on the page actually make things worse in terms of being able to catch the server's attention next time he/she walks by)

yes i have been stuck in that vicious circle more than once.

there should be some sort of charity or benefit for it

like that Yeast Infection Telethon in the old SNL sketch

life is very difficult

do i keep reading, or do i walk across the room and ask for the check

decisions

lyfe

ask for the check

but i'm reading this paragraph

when in doubt, choose the more passive aggressive approach.

it really depends how into the book you are (haha perfect xpost)

don't wanna lose my place

choose the approach that is a no-win situation for the server

maybe you could just keep reading so as not to bother them

i mean could i ask another waiter who is not my waiter for the check. . . could i do that? do i dare disturb their universe?

maybe i could ask another waiter to read my book for me, while i go and look for my waiter

haha fuck you guys

"hey! waiter? sorry! - i just - i'm reading this book about a guy and hes stuck in this... this restaurant? waiting on a check? and he cant leave. i think its a metaphor for something but i dont know what. what do u think?"

^^^^ hope someone uses this. please report back.

"i don't understand figurative language, i was a science major, sorry. let me get your check for you."

Lamp wins the ILX Passive Aggression Award for 2009. Mostly because I MYSELF DID NOT CONSIDER HIS GENIUS META APPROACH.

wait, am I seriously allowed to walk across the room, corner the server by another table, and ask for a check? I would never dream of doing this, honestly

(I know I told stories upthread about having walked out of restaurants so they'd force me to pay -- this has only happened when I've repeatedly requested a check and gotten nothing)

wait, am I seriously allowed to walk across the room, corner the server by another table, and ask for a check? I would never dream of doing this, honestly

nabisco. yes. you are allowed to ask for a check. for the love of God. you're the CUSTOMER.

tear pages out of your book (the ones you've already read, of course), wad them up and throw them at the waiters

and then quiz them on the pages

listen, guys, it's pretty easy. get up and find the server and be vv pleasant and just ask for the check, they always bring it right away when you do that.

or you could pretend to run away and make them chase you down, i sort of want to try that once

haha so is it rude to do that while they're taking another customer's order?

(how about if they're in the bathroom?)

naw bisco just sidle up to the urinal and tell 'em u r looking to settle up

see if you can pay your check with urine

can I just bypass them entirely and get my food from the kitchen directly?

this is why i like places where you pay at the counter

lyfe skills

or nabisco maybe to save time u should just make it yourself. at home. have them come by after when ur relaxing unwinding maybe reading book - get the money then

I am half-joking here but seriously, I'm not sure I've ever seen a customer walk down a server to get service -- I would feel seriously rude and be pretty sure they wanted to kill me

I might try to catch the eye of another server, but I wouldn't actually walk over to them. Unless it was a casual place where you could also pay at the register if you're in a rush, then I'd...do that.

oh, they'll want to kill you alright, but it's still okay

i do it all the time if i need to, if you do it w/a smile they will never forget your kindness in this situation

if you've finished your meal and like ten minutes pass and you don't see your waiter then it's not unreasonable to go look for them or to ask, as i already suggested, another waiter about your check

these people know the drill: they've taken your order, brought you your food, taken the plates away, they know that you have a reasonable expectation of the check sometime in the near future, unless you go to restaurants that are staffed by 3 year olds

No, honestly it's fine you can do it. Trust me - I know these things!

Also in regarding to reading - put down the book. He honestly is probably taking it as a cue that you're hanging out.

On a somewhat similar note, if you're at a restaurant and ready to order then close your menu. Leaving it open just makes it look like you haven't decided yet and your server will likely think the same.

I will get up and ask for a check. I feel resentful at having to run around after someone who's theoretically there to do the running, but if it's busytime I'm pretty forgiving.

On a somewhat similar note, if you're at a restaurant and ready to order then close your menu. Leaving it open just makes it look like you haven't decided yet and your server will likely think the same.

lyfe skills, people. this is how it's done

Erica now that you're here i can liken myself as a diner to Otis in Kicking and Screaming in the scene where he won't return his beer with s piece of chicken in it because the server "seems like she's having a really bad day" and "i like it better this way."

xpost okay i know to close my menu, people

Yeah, i don't get the book thing really. If you're paying attention to your book, how can you be sure the server hasn't been trying to catch your eye so that he or she can begin his or her approach to your table to inquire as to your needs? xpxp

these people know the drill: they've taken your order, brought you your food, taken the plates away, they know that you have a reasonable expectation of the check sometime in the near future, unless you go to restaurants that are staffed by 3 year olds

haha Que if that were reliably true we would not be having this conversation

I am well aware that books are taken as a cue that you are "hanging out" and servers are trying to be nice but this is such a bizarre assumption, was my point

oh GEEZ people you are not talking to 3-year-olds with the menu-closing here for god's sake

on the real if im in a rush or will need to leave quickish then i just ask for the bill when i get my food dk on the etiquette of this but it works okay

haha i wouldve gotten a kicking and screaming reference

in face i read sort of uneasily when i dine alone, it's true.

xpost <3 Lamp

in FACT, not in face, though probably that, too.

i'm a big fan of just spilling my water glass on the floor, hopefully breaking it, if the waitress is inattentive. she always comes over then so i can ask for my check.

LOL HS - I was looking for a video of that scene recently and couldn't find it. :-( "I don't want to set her over the edge" (or something like that).

Not everyone knows about the menu closing!!! I was out with some ppl (not 3 yr olds) recently who were getting frantic that our order hadn't been taken yet and I kept telling them to close their menus but noooooooooooo of course when they finally did the waiter came over almost immediately.

haha Que if that were reliably true we would not be having this conversation

or you could just be too shy/bashful/unassertive to go ask for a check

ok, I didn't actually tell them to close their menus out loud but I did so inside my head.

i would like to say in my defense that i think of myself as more lazy than passive-aggressive.

"close your menus now, kiddies! it's time to order. see, the nice lady will take our order to the kitchen, where some men will cook our lunch for us. later, we will drop a glass of water on the floor, in order to signal to our waitress that we are prepared to pay for this transaction."

in terms of getting checks, in my experience there's also a big difference in how restaurants run by americans and immigrants handle it (to be specific, i eat at a lot of indian, greek, and turkish-owned places) - in the first case, waiters usually bring the check when they see you're done, and in the second, i have to wave them over and ask almost every time. i think it's a difference of etiquette thing.

xpost - erica i would totally be passive aggressive about it and be like "so what are you guys deciding between? oh, you know already? sorry, i thought you were still looking at the menu." but i'm kind of annoying sometimes.

on the real if im in a rush or will need to leave quickish then i just ask for the bill when i get my food dk on the etiquette of this but it works okay

i did this today! my waitress was a total doll, too.

ian thanks for a tip thats much easier than lighting a small fire with the candles and my napkin! altho if u want attentive service~~~

on the real if im in a rush or will need to leave quickish then i just ask for the bill when i get my food dk on the etiquette of this but it works okay

haha i wouldve gotten a kicking and screaming reference

― Lamp, Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

realness

I'm trying to sort out if check-lag happens more or less often when someone besides the server was the one who cleared your table.

on the real if im in a rush or will need to leave quickish then i just ask for the bill when i get my food dk on the etiquette of this but it works okay

^^ I do this pretty much anyplace I know to be uniformly unsatisfactory with post-food service, and yeah, it works fine -- I think it's actually kinda appreciated by servers, since it gives them a clear itinerary.

Oh man the OTHER thing here is like places where it takes forever to bring you your bill and THEN it's an equally long process to get back change or your credit slip

good thing you brought a book

what i hate most then is if whoever i'm eating with gets all impatient about it. like "i can't wait until i'm out of this place and don't have to hang out with you anymore." thanks dudes!

do you guys never eat out alone? what on earth would i do without a book?

my solution to all these dilemmas is to never eat at restaurants, and also to eliminate all real world interaction

x-posts If I think that's in danger of happening I just give them my CC right away and don't even give them the chance of leaving the check at the table for too long.

acchhhhh Nabisco I did mention that. After about 10 minutes separation from my card it's easy to become paranoid they're cloning it in the back.

do you hold your book open with one hand and use a fork with the other?
dining out alone, also, is a generally foreign concept. that's why god invented take-out and delivery. books are for trains & bed & beaches imho. xp

do you hold your book open with one hand and use a fork with the other?

sometimes, i think :-/. mostly when the food comes i put the book aside, though. i like eating out with a book a lot; feels more decadent than take-out/delivery.

ha this is reminding me that last week i had dinner w/ an old friend at a decently fancy and kind of $$$ place and we were being pretty leisurely hadnt seen her in awhile so we were talking and i guess taking a long time and ended up being the last ones in there. it was weird because it was still early like just after 9 but it was midweek and i figured no one was coming in so we ended up just kind of awkwardly getting the bill real quick like uh how long has it just been us sry peace u can still cut out early okay

god this thread has made me paranoid: just so you know i tip extra if i'm eating out alone + taking up a whole table.

i was not just raised by wolves.

Yeah Lamp, whomever was waiting on you that night hated yr guts.

pretty soon kids will be dining out with their portable dvd players, their kindles. whole world's coming to an end. there was a time and i remember it well as a youngster where i learned a lesson that was NO READING AT THE DINNER TABLE after it became obvious to my parents that my sister & i were using books to avoid conversation.

in terms of getting checks, in my experience there's also a big difference in how restaurants run by americans and immigrants handle it (to be specific, i eat at a lot of indian, greek, and turkish-owned places) - in the first case, waiters usually bring the check when they see you're done, and in the second, i have to wave them over and ask almost every time. i think it's a difference of etiquette thing.

I was amazed and horrified in Mexico when I learned that get the waiter to bring you the check, you get their attention and then do to this little scribbling-on-a-notepad pantomime using your left palm as the pad and your right hand holding your invisible pencil. To me, it seemed like the most pretentious snobby thing to do to a server, but there, it was accepted.

Also, the thank-you wave, like when a car slows down to let you walk in front of them, is to do this half-bouncy thing with your palm facing up, like you're the Queen of England acknowledging applause. Again, don't ever do it around here, but when in other places, you never know.

I can't even tell you how many nights I waited at my parents' place for some table to stop talking and just pay their check when they were the last ones there. Ugh. They didn't have to leave - there was a nice bar with tables and everything. They could have stayed sitting there but just settled the damn bill.

regarding eating with books - i ate out with a book a lot when i was traveling alone, it was indeed difficult to keep the book standing! but i liked keeping it open while eating because without it there to distract me, i'd imagine everyone was staring and wondering why i was by myself. self-consciousness is basically the reason i don't eat out alone (along with barely being able to afford eating out with friends when i'm invited), but more power to you if you can get out of your head enough to enjoy it.

i always tip extra if i'm eating alone, especially if the restaurant is busy or if i'm ordering something really cheap.

after it became obvious to my parents that my sister & i were using books to avoid conversation.

this is probably the root of my taste for dining out + reading tbh

PP my Dad will occasionally do the scribbling pantomime and he's German so maybe it's a foreign thing? IDK.

As in maybe it happens everywhere else not just Mexico etc.

yah enbb we were just absorbed in our conversation - lol gossip - or i wouldve grabbed the cheque as soon as i saw we were the last ones in there. i know thats annoying :(

my dad would always just flag ~any~ waiter and ask when he decided the meal was over

I have always thought of the various "check, please" pantomimes as being totally universal -- just not used much here because we have this idea of friendly face-to-face service, where if you've caught their eye they must come to the table and actually interact with you and wish you well and stuff. (This is more walking for them, really, but tbh I wouldn't want to be pantomimed at either.)

x-post - No, I know you didn't mean it Lamp! I don't think anyone means to do it. It's just something I'm really conscious (maybe to a fault) as a result being a teenage waitress.

btw I would so love to hear what some of you would think of the not-uncommon habit around here of people actively working in restaurants, like with multiple piles of paper and highlighters on the table

fwiw, former waiters are in general really conscious to a fault when it comes to restaurant etiquette

ppl do that everywhere, nabs, c'mon

sounds fine and normal to me, re: working. also, i am not anti-reading at restaurants, i do it if i'm eating alone sometimes

also gbx otm re: etiquette

friend of mine used to work at a restaurant in chi, and going there with him was the wooooooooooooooooorst. this was a restaurant kinda famed for its surly service, and he would get so uncomfortable if you got even remotely assertive with your server. like, waving them down for basically anything was enough to make him blush and look around like omg who are these a-holes i'm sitting with

this was a place where ~all~ of the servers would tell a party of greater than say three that under no circumstances would they countenance splitting the check. EVER.

i hate it when people work in crowded coffee & sandwich shops. ordering one coffee = table occupied for 2 hours on a saturday, so other people have to do takeout or go elsewhere.

ha my sister preemptively collects + stacks the plates + silverware for the server.

xposts

ha, i actually do that sometimes. some things are courtesies, others are weird tribal taboos

Oh I totally do the stacking thing.

I once had a party of six ladies come in and all order the same meal that let's pretend was $22.50 each. Not one of them had anything to drink or anything extra etc. and they demanded six separate checks. It was slow so I obliged but pretty much wanted to murder them all.

you should have played hide and seek with their checks

ok that is annoying, but still, preemptively telling customers that they aren't even allowed to ask is some bullshit imo

oh yeah not, it totally is

I hate dining in big groups. Nobody ever has it together, and people forget tax so they never put in enough on tip.

my solution to all these dilemmas is to never eat at restaurants, and also to eliminate all real world interaction

max, you are my kind of guy.

wait gbx did they want ppl to all get separate checks? because i tht servers h8 that? xpost to enbb

im basically lazy so im cool w/ covering and settling l8r but...

even though i am a grad student, of sorts, i am getting to the point in my life where haggling over the tiniest details of the bill is fucking annoying. unless someone ordered significantly less than everyone else, i'm like what the fuck ppl let's just split it, jesus

seriously^^^

no no lamp, they were telling ppl upfront that any requests for bill-splitting will not be honored, f u if u disagree

if they are ppl you are likely to dine with again, it'll probably be a wash in the long run

x-post YES to just splitting the bill if it's relatively even.

if the difference between $25 and $20 for dinner is important, you probably shouldn't have gone out in the first place

yes exactly haha like theres a couple of ppl i know where ill try to avoid drinking/dining out with them because they are the worst cheapskates about separate bills or like if u get a combined bill then who ordered what and tip calculations and its just like bro fuck this

i mean the old ill get this one u get next time was worked since at least the 1970s why stress u no

i am a big fan of the rotating bill payment. 'i'll get this one, you get the next one' stylee. xpxp

(xpost) haha yes...usually i'm like "i can't afford to go out ANYWAY, so what's $5 more?" if i'm going to make a bad financial decision to hang out with friends, i'm not going to be that picky about it.

yeah for sure. a friend of mine dropped that on me the first time we got dinner (he actually was like "you get this one"), which was o_O initially, but he as held up his end of the bargain since, and it's been very refreshing

esp because i got him a bike wheel and received in return jars of w____

whey?

I NEED WHEY

homemade Worcestershire sauce?

ugh, separate checks. you know what you ordered, just throw in some money, and if it's not enough, throw in some more.

IS TODAY NATIONAL "DAIRY PRODUCER DON'T ANSWER YOUR PHONE DAY"

MAYBE THE COWS GOT BUSTED

The writing in the air signal is definitely euro in origin, but has spread. As non-verbal communication it's not at all hostile.

I can't remember the last time I was in a restaurant where the server didn't offer to split up the check.

I always used the writing-on-air motion at my local in Oxford to let the bartender know it was time to tally me up and roll me out. Never seemed to be taken badly.

I can't remember the last time I was in a restaurant where the server didn't offer to split up the check.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:50 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

jalapeno poppers are the BEST

i only ate two of them... you guys each had three.

Hahaha, I mean, stfu gbx.

those with an interest in check-splitting may find this amusing

http://www.slate.com/id/2202646/

The only way to order is with abandon. If I'm going to be subsidizing the sybaritic corporate lawyer at the end of the table (who, I happen to know, wouldn't think of ordering a beer unless it was brewed by a Trappist monk), you'd better believe he's going to be paying for a tract of my baked Alaska.

btw, this --

you know what you ordered, just throw in some money, and if it's not enough, throw in some more

-- I have never seen this not result in general happiness and actual money left over that needs to be returned to people who threw in extra just in case ... and yet there are always things like the birthday dinners described in that article where the meal goes on forever and various things are ordered for the table and nobody knows what's going on, and in the end it will be split, and if you are a poor person with some rich friends it will be like a scene from a French novel where a penniless student is trying to get in with the aristocrats

I was totally with that guy until he got to the actual total being $168 split 10 ways. Um, as a person on the low end of the salary lineup, I've never had a dinner that cheap that included an appetizer, wine, and dessert. Unless I'm misreading and it was $168 per person, but that seems equally unrealistic to me...in which case I am grateful for my innocence and wish I had more money.

(actually, the more i think about it, the more i think that must've been per person. wow. will keep this danger in mind as a poor grad student for the rest of my 20s.)

Oh, it's definitely $168 per person -- actually not that hard if someone keeps bringing on nice bottles of wine and seafood appetizers (leave alone desserts, after-dinner drinks, etc.).

I would say enjoy your innocence but also look forward to the day when you and someone you like can go spend that much on a dinner because you want to, planned to, and are actually super-psyched about it.

I dunno if the menu-closing thing is less of a deal UK-side but my parents never do it and we have not been left sitting noticeably more often than when I'm out with the other half, who is so determined in his menu-closing that he gets kind of antsy if I so much as glance briefly inside it after closing it (e.g. if kept waiting until I start to think "wait, what was that other thing? what drinks do they have? how much is this going to cost?").

No matter which you do there always seems to be someone trying to take your order about five seconds after you get the menu, and then someone else a minute later, and then everyone disappears once you've actually decided.

Re: bill splitting, virtually everyone i know pays with cards these days, so you get say six people chucking their cards in and the waiter has to bill each of 'em separately. With the portable card machine things it's not toooo much of a hassle but I still wince silently a little inside each time, out of sympathy.

uk people, do you tip in uk restaurants? the only time i eat in fancy places is with the boss who will pay on his card, and i've never noticed him tip.

or would the waiters be all "LOL THIS ISN'T FUCKING USA YOU TWIT" and throw the tip back at you?

Yes you definitely do tip. Some places let you add a gratuity on when you pay by card.

this girl I know ate in a restaurant and the waitress added the tip to her card payment automatically, so she demanded it be refunded to her card on principle because she hadn't agreed to it, and then gave her the tip in cash when she left

you definitely tip in the uk dude

probably a good strategy, tips put on cards don't always go to the servers. (xp)

Loadsa places add a tip to the bill automatically, 10 or 12.5%. If not then we generally just about manage to scrape together 10%, or round it up to the nearest whole number if that's good enough.

i never complain about bad service but i can understand why people do.

i grew up going to chinese restaurants where you would complain if the service isn't bad as that is quite clearly a major part of the whole dining experience.

and if you are a poor person with some rich friends it will be like a scene from a French novel where a penniless student is trying to get in with the aristocrats that one episode of Friends

a friend of mine and his girlfriend were the worst to go out to eat with... they would take the check up to the front counter, pay an undisclosed amount, and return a new check to the table for everyone else to split. problem was, they never included tax and tip, and would refuse to pay up more when asked. even worse was when we'd be out with people who hadn't met them before, and they would explain it like it was totally normal behavior.

which i guess is more relevant to the check splitting issue than the thread title, but there you go.

that's very odd behavior.

i was just thinking of this thread. i had a situation with bacon at a restaurant today. it was inedible, so the waitress offered to take it off the bill, which was sweet. then right as we were getting ready to go, the manager brought over a second order of the bacon saying "this is how it should have looked. if you don't want to eat it we can certainly take it off the bill." i was like, "yeah, i don't think i do." so then he said they could wrap it up if i wanted...

it wasn't really bad, just weird. it's like, why would i want to eat bacon after everyone's finished... or take it home? odd!

There are only three things I've ever complained about in a restuarant:

1. The waiter walks over with a big pitcher of Coke, asks me if I'd like some more Coke, I say sure, he walks away, repeat process three more times, and then when I get my bill I see I'm charged an extra $5 for every single refill.
2. In a big party of fifteen and the waiter refuses to split or itemize the check up because it's "our policy." So we spent the next TWENTY FUCKING MINUTES gathering everybody's cash and credit cards and telling the guy how much to put on each card.
3. When I'm ordering a steak and I ask the waitress what medium rare is and she says that medium rare is "pink, while rare is red, and medium is cooked all the way through." So I order a steak medium rare and it's red and the waitress offers to cook it a little longer, but instead of cooking that particular steak she comes back with a completely different steak, which of course was every bit as red as the last one.

Amazingly, #s 1 and 2 happened at the exact same time.

surmounter i don't see why you would NOT want to take some bacon home to eat later...?

you could just put it in your pocket and have something to nibble on during the day.

i have been known to take sausages from the bbq place in williamsburg and wrap them up in wax paper for snacks on the go.

the fried chicken/soul food joint i've been eating at lately is pretty slow when it's busy cuz each portion of chicken is fried as it's ordered. so i don't mind the wait, cuz they will bring me my lemonade and i can sit and read the paper, or a book, or whatever, and when i get teh chicken it's so hot i can barely eat it. so i don't complains.

exactly - if i'm gonna eat something fried, i prefer to eat it right after it's been fried.

we went to bub's bbq tonight for the first time. pretty good. though i liked their chicken more than their ribs. ribs too dry and fatty for me. great sides though! great french fries! best french fries i've had in a zillion years. good dirty rice. good potato salad.

http://www.bubsbbq.com/ordereze/default.aspx

lucky

good french fries are a gift from god.

if people put half the care into their french fries that they do into their designer sorbet, life would be a whole lot better for living.

speaking the truth

my dad makes really good french fries

my grandmother used to

yelpers/whiners about bad service are gross but bad service exists tho rare ime

ya theres a lot of difft types of bad service tho--like waiter is new and clueless to waiter is having a bad day to waiter is just a straight up dickhole--the first two are forgiveable depending on how nice the restaurant is and how good a mood im in but the being a jerk thing is pretty annoying. still rarely if ever meet waiters who are actually straight up jerks like that.

(xpost) i'll take my fries shoestring-style with garlic and parsley and lots of salt

wow, parsley and salt sooo otm

my point is that if you voluntarily take a job where your pay is directly linked to the subjective judgment of the patrons, you gotta expect a little blowback when you fuck up. ie some hipster douche who completely did not take down my (pregnant) wife's order and so she had to wait an extra 15-20 minutes while everyone else chowed down. i don't think dude was being malicious, but also dude can't expect anything but the bare minimum tip in that case. i just notice a kinda weird to me attitude on these threads where servers are some kind of saintly figures who always deserve 20-25% no matter what. the system allows for reward and punishment, within reason

waiters who are clearly high as a kite: amusing or annoying?

i was the worst waiter ever when i did it, i had no training, i wasn't rude but i would put an order in my pocket and forget it for 45 minutes and then sneak it into the kitchen without letting on and then desperately smile as fetchingly as i could at the customers when they got agitated, also i was a lap cutlery dropper and an inefficient plate stacker, so now i feel obliged to be extremely gentle with other duffers for the rest of my life.

someone as charming as estela would still get a good tip from me ; )

:D

i didn't wait tables for very long but i think i was decent at it. i fucking despised some of the customers though, esp. the crepey males who knew they could egg me on and i couldn't do anything about it.

c'mon, toots, don't you have a sense of humor?

C-I-L-L

"if people put half the care into their french fries that they do into their designer sorbet, life would be a whole lot better for living."

amen. bub's fries were light and long and perfectly salted. and they tasted like potatoes! and strangely, for a barbecue joint, they weren't even greasy. (not that i have a problem with grease) they were perfectly oiled fries! i'm going back for more. (plus, i really want to try their pulled pork sandwich)

too many road food/diner/burger places these days are selling some horrible sysco "seasoned" french fries that taste like they are coated in old newspapers. i think they are actually half corn dust or something.

i got some fries last week that had bits of dried herb stalks stuck all over them, it was a travesty.

what was the herb

Fuckup of pregger wife's order - tip depends on how he handles it. Owns up and sincerely apologizes? Still gets his 20, IMO, but I could understand someone bumping him to 15%. If he starts blaming other people when it's clearly his fault (I never saw the kitchen miss an ENTIRE meal - maybe it wasn't plated with the rest or something, but a total disappearance is hard to comprehend), I'd give him 10-15%.

it was mixed indeterminate xp

but it ruined everything.

yeah, he didn't really apologize that much, sorta shrugged. my wife was sooooooo mad, never went back there. we were in a party of 7-8 people, he just didn't relay the order to the kitchen as far as i could tell.

i had a recent experience where the server completely missed an entire table's order

was at a wedding at this cute resort-y place in washington, that cabins and a hostel (just to give you a sense of the vibe...it wasn't a fancy place at all), and a cafe with local-y organic stuff

my friends were up before i was, and had apparently ordered breakfast about fifteen to twenty minutes before i got there. i went up to the counter and placed my order directly, because the waitress was totally absent. another fifteen minutes later, my food comes out and my friends are confused and enraged, kinda. one of them (who had actually ~not~ ordered food, but was just hanging out) went to tell the kitchen (politely). dude in charge comes out and kinda snottily informs us that they're totally slammed (there was one or two other tables), and that if we're going to show up with such a large group we should call ahead (there were maybe 8-9 people sitting on the patio, but only five had ordered anything, the other people were just wandering in and out because it was that kind of a place). anyway, the stuff comes out pretty quickly, and the guy comes out with some complimentary mimosas and yay everything was fine in the end

everyone thought this guy was a dick for taking us to task for having the temerity to show up and order breakfast when there were two other tables, but i think he was just covering for his waitress. it was the sort of place where i'm guessing most of the people that worked there also lived together, and him getting tough on the customer was his way of circling the wagons around the lady that apparently totally forgot to give the order to the kitchen. hence the talking to AND the mimosas

I dont mind the dried herbs on Grill'd chips.

<3 those are the exact ones i'm complaining about.

Hahah I thought they might be! ;)

love this thread.

quick thoughts:
1) easy way for guiltless and pleasant dining-alone pleasure: go to a restaurant with a bar. Either you read your book just like you were going to, only without taking up a whole table, or talk to the bartender if he/she is friendly, or watch TV. Simple. Obviously it is ok to have a non-alcoholic beverage at a bar if you are eating. I know sometimes this isn't an option, but don't forget that it is, either.

2) splitting the check is no problem now that most restaurants have some sort of POS machine. the easiest way to do it is to mention to the server at the beginning of the meal that you will be splitting the check, and then he or she can create virtual checks for each member of the party while the kitchen still sees the one check and therefore makes the food accordingly.

My mom used to wait tables at an Applebee's, and a man with mental problems sat at the bar to unwind most nights with fired cheese & beers and talk to his "invisible friend," as my mom liked to say, in the next stool. If anyone tried to sit in the stool, he would complain and get cranky. Si if you are blurring the line between dining alone and dining with someone else, I recommend a booth or table.

Woah Abbott, maybe the dude had a ghost dad or something - no need to suggest the guy had mental problems!

The ghost dad was helping him in his fatherly duties of enabling the descent into alcoholism.

I sent you a gchat message you silly, nota bene

i say, unless the service is really profoundly terrible, dud. people get really worked up about this -- often it seems they are getting off on the complaining (for examples, see lots of yelp reviews). i don't pay a restaurant so the waiters can kiss my ass and refill my water glass every three minutes. on the other hand, i'm oversensitive to lighting in restaurants, so maybe it's a to-each-her-own deal.

i forgive bad service the first time as long as the staff aren't rude or anything. if the service sucks more than once, i probably wouldn't go there again. i usually try to change the subject when people complain about bad service, because there are like thousands of things in the universe more worthy of complaint.

i'm sympathetic being a former waiter. I think there are some people out there who enter with the mindset that they're going to get bad service and overreact to minor things.

an example - i was waiting tables on a busy friday once, and I got pretty much triple sat, which is the norm. it didn't faze me, i went to the first two tables in order, got their drink orders, dropped chips, then I go over to the third, who I know had to have seen that the place was full, and that the two tables I went to were there before him.

I ask how he and the family are doing tonight and the first words out of his mouth were "starting to get a little upset". It had been no more than 5 minutes, and I'd even dropped chips for them to munch on due to the fact that I had two other tables to get first.

Have to tell you, the moment you do that, you ensure that the waiter is not gonna feel too enthused to help you cuz A. now he thinks you're not gonna tip him well anyway, and B. you're being a dick.

of the countless times i've eaten out i feel like i've encountered straight up bad service on like maybe 10 occasions

OK while I'd never say something like that after 5 mins (and if I was getting concerned about the wait I'd be polite about it), I dislike the idea that from then on you're going to get sub-standard service because the server is second-guessing what you're going to tip at the end?
That said (B) is a valid reason, I guess.

as a server tho it's impossible not to. i mean when someone gives you attitude right off without any real trigger for it is a big downer. i don't think most servers consciously go 'i'm gonna treat em like crap now', but subconsciously it's easier to not go the extra mile simply because you just don't think it will do anything.

That said, i hated working in restaurants, and i was not a model waiter. i frequently threw ramekins of salsa at walls, almost got in fistfights with the cook, and once doctored a customer's dipping sauce .......(with other ingredients, not bodily fluids). and I got out. but there were a lot of people there who were moms and struggling to make ends meet and i felt real bad when people treated em like crap

i frequently threw ramekins of salsa at walls

This is making me chuckle so much, would kind of like to see this. Think of the smart-ass Yelp reviews.

it usually preceded my bearded manager going "you know you're just gonna have to clean that up, right", and me throwing a Yngwie Malmsteen-esque temper tantrum.

I miss having a big-ass walk-in cooler in which to vent and punch things.

Also wicked awesome for hangovers.

HHAHAHAHAA I did that too - so glad I'm not the only one. altho usually that involved me clutching my knuckles immediately afterwards....

the week we got laid off I stole a lot of silverware. had I known they were gonna be like 2 years late on my only severance check I'd have taken a lot more...

I do not doubt that George Orwell, were he here to comment, would have any number of pertinent well-expressed observations that would sum up the relationship between servers and patrons so keenly that the next post could only be:

george otm lock thread

one time we had a drunkish customer pretend to be our GM and walk to various tables telling people to fuck off and stuff after asking them how their meal was.

Asymmetrical relationships are bearable only so long as the oppressed party is permitted to spit into the chowder now and then. Better that than planes into buildings.

...Yngwie Malmsteen-esque temper tantrum.

― Ballistic, Monday, March 1, 2010 9:22 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

please tell me this involved whipping out a fender stratocaster with a silkscreened lightning bolt and just shredding for like ten minutes.

...in front of a wall of marshalls, only two of which are actually plugged in.

My in-laws fall into that subset of people who just really shouldn't ever dine out to eat. The establishment almost always inevitably fails their little 'tests', and short of the waitstaff making out with them upon them entering the restaurant, they will swear they're NEVER going back there EVER again. I just think certain people, like my in-laws, lack the basic humanity to do anything other than order fastfood or takeout, or eat at home.

Plus I just generally hate the idea of wielding the tip like some prized carrot at the end of a stick..."if you kiss my ass I'll give you a shiny nickel." Tightwads in particular will look for any excuse NOT to give the tip. I'm pretty easygoing myself...the server would probably have to punch me in face to force me to complain, I'm such a wimp about stuff like that anyway.

agreed.

Unless, I'm really starving to the point of death or get boiling hot coffee spilled on my lap, I will always take bad service over complainers. I enjoy delayed service (unless I have to catch a film afterwards), as it gives me more time to chat with friends in a nice atmosphere!

Burgerfuel isn't that nice of an atmosphere.

When I have to eat out with people who are dicks about this it usually seems likes it's 50% desperation for an excuse to not tip (like landlords rooting out any bullshit excuse to keep yr deposit) and 50% retarded aspirational desire to prove you have high standards because you're well-travelled and have eaten at a lot of good restaurants

Yeah, you totally learn unpalatable truths about certain friends: how they'd behave if they were a landlord or how they'd behave as a (micro)manager. When I'm out with my friends I don't want to spend time I could be catching up w/them on fretting over what the waiter should be doing or why one of our group has no main course. If they're doing a decent job, everything is seamless. If a place is so busy the plates are flying, it's worth commiserating with the arriving waiter about being slammed and it's courteous to lay stuff out for them eg. 'thanks, we'll be ready to order when you come back with the drinks' regardless of how busy their section might be.

otoh, and not that i act like a dick about it, but service can be pretty poor in this country. slow, inattentive, forgetful. it's often hard to get in and out within in an hour, at lunchtime, which doesn't strike me as that unusual a desire.

If you go somewhere half decent that's likely to be busy at lunchtime I think you take your chances with how long the service will take. You really have no right to get pissed off if it takes longer than you've got - there are other options if you're pressed for time.

When you sit down, you tell them you have an hour, tops, to eat. Most waiters are glad to turn tables as quickly as service allows.

OTOH, if you're a restaurant that tries to impose 90-minute bookings on diners, and you adhere to that in the face of erratic or inattentive service, DIE IN FLAMES.

the places we go to usually aren't that busy, there's a wealth of options around here and we tend to be pretty early. the american idea of taking orders promptly and frequently checking that things are ok just doesn't seem to exist over here.

When you sit down, you tell them you have an hour, tops, to eat

yeah that would make sense, but otoh waiting over half an hour for your mains to be served should be the exception not the norm.

in other weird waiter stories, the early birds who showed up right after opening one day decided that in addition to a taco platter being a great start to their morning, a handjob would go nice too. once it was revealed that le penis was outside the perimeter of the trousers, several servers did random 'walk-bys'.

finally, the two realized we were on to them - it was obvious, they were both sitting in one seat, in a two top table. ie, the seat was intended for one. dude had a napkin over his crotch that i suspect was meant to do more than clean up the mess from food crumbs...

that's a nice subversion of the standard waiter-gets-revenge story

this is the weirdest piece of food writing ive read in a while

http://www.gq.com/food-travel/alan-richman/201109/alan-richman-m-wells-restaurant-scandal-review?currentPage=all

yeah that was just linked on another thread. so weird!

which thread?

http://www.planters.com/cornnuts/flavor.aspx?flavor=default

just stay home and have...

xpost the molecular gastronomy one

i mean i dont think richman slapped anyone on the ass, and it sounds like his service was shitty, but it would be really hard for him to come across any less sympathetically there

i ate at m wells last week and the service was kind of sloppy for the price but charmingly so

i didnt slap anyone on the ass nor was i accused of doing so

the owner seemed to handle the situation in a weird way, but he seems p insufferable so

wonder if it was one of richmans friends who did the ass slapping

richman is kind of a notorious asshole at any rate

the owner is canadian, maybe she doesnt understand how it works down ehre

wonder if it was one of richmans friends who did the ass slapping

I wondered that, too.

First, I thought one of the men in my group was totally out of line with his mouth and his comments. I just couldn't get him to shut up.

betting this guy did the ass-grab. also richman is being pretty disengenuous, casually mentioning his friend's loutish behavior in passing

in the heyday of big record companies, i knew a few music writers w/attitude like richman - sense of entitlement a mile wide

for all his disclaimers and grudging praise of some dishes this review just screams 'why isn't everybody kissing my ass'

I wonder if they're trying to "perform" Montreal-style service? Chaotic and disinterested in the manner of someone who smoked a joint 45 minutes before work, but also genuinely uninterested in those bullshit "do you know who I am?!?!?" games that people are always playing in the parts of the world that aren't Montreal.

I'm going to side with Hugue on this one, who has always seemed a patient understudy and more balanced chef than his former boss. Maybe his wife IS genuinely batshit and, on the balance of it, I'd say that getting into any type of mudslinging match like that was her fight to lose. But maybe printing those emails was pretty slimy.

This whole piece is full of ellipses.

it kinda sounds like he got better service than he deserved but w/e

fwiw the place is also really small & crowded (like, literally, it is a railcar diner and the kitchen is behind the counter) and my guess is that one reason service gets sloppy is that theyre just not set up to handle the kinds of crowds they get. (hugue sat us at our table and took our drink orders when we were there, so i dont think they have a dedicated hostess even.)

Jonathan Gold oon Richman's piece:

Is it just me, or is this basically the world's longest Yelp post?

haha, richman is such a hack.

Weird piece for sure. But if that is Richman's job, and he takes his job seriously, and he tries to be fair and honest, and the restaurant inexplicably counters that and makes things not just harder for him but also potentially litigious, then he has every right to be a punk about it. Shouldn't have written the piece, though, since it achieves nothing more than an airing of grievances, legit or not.

He is right, however, that diners put up with bad service too often. Of course, he is also right that there are countless reasons service can be bad, but outright schizo antagonism on the part of the proprietor is not usually one of them.

The weirdest part of all is his modesty topos mea culpa for bad service.

in years and years of eating out, i've only had outright BAD service two times

i mean how often does it actually happen?

Shouldn't have written the piece, though, since it achieves nothing more than an airing of grievances, legit or not.

It comes across at first as a personal grievance but it does kind of morph into a cultural rant about modern restaurant culture. I kind of feel for the whole 'get off my lawn' ethos though, since, while I don't necessarily want my restaurants to be too formal, I loathe overly loud and insufficiently attentive places.

It reads like a Custer's Last Stand of a dying medium tbqh.

well its also retarded to complain about the waiting too long for someone to take your order at a new-ish v busy, v popular restaurant. i mean reading that all i could think was that the first server forgot to transfer their table to the new server cuz he was just finishing his shift but regardless of the reason they forgot about him its p retarded to a) not just assume they made a mistake and flag down a server earlier b) get all passive-aggressively 'jokey' about it and look like a tedious asshole to the staff and c) not realize that in a really busy restaurant mistakes will totally happen, even to supercool critics, and thats it not a personal thing so mb just be chill about it

Well, food writing is entertainment. It's not really about recommendation, I mean how many go to resturants after a good review, compared to the quantity of readers?

eh the whole scene sounded p shitty all around imho

richman "takes his job seriously" insofar as he "takes himself seriously," i guess but, i dunno, hes also the guy who gave les halles a shitty review because anthony bourdain made fun of him

j gold otm

btw im in halifax atm and every restaurant when you pay w/a cc brings a lil swipe device to the table and has you walk through the whole thing on yr own pressing buttons and whatnot - so nagl - i dont want to fuck w/this lil computer isnt that your job the person im tipping ffs god

btw rereading richmans piece--that $42 burger hes so intent on making fun of is for four people

restaurant critics are the art of pretend forgetfulness

guy who gave les halles a shitty review

I would totally make fun of him, too. I was underwhelmed by Les Halles, tho.

yeah les halles is not great really

^^^Bourdain is much better at TV than in the kitchen. To his credit, his menu vision was a bit ahead of his time.

Does he cook anymore?

not professionally I don’t think

At least his fries were okay. I haven't been in a while and I found an excellent Frenchy place in the upper East Side but man, the last time I was in NYC, I got dragged to a lot of mediocre but pricey French bistro-ey places. Balthazzar, for example, can suck my dick.

working yr ass off in a sweltering kitchen all day v traveling around the world eating food n shooting the breeze

i dont have an opinion on les halles, ive never eaten there, but this is not something that someone who "takes his job seriously as a critic" says:

I wrote the piece with the intention of getting even with Bourdain. I admit that. But I had no ill-will towards Les Halles. To be honest, Bourdain is such an untalented cook that I expected it to be better than it was when he worked there. Instead, I found an appalling restaurant, one of the worst in New York.

haha the worst it is not. i can say that

i mean as far as french goes i'd take it over Patis or some shit like that

there is maybe--maybe--an interesting piece to be written abt the way standards of service are changing. and there is definitely an interesting piece that should be written about m wells! this is not either of those pieces.

I liked Pastis well enough, certainly better than Les Halles, though the scene was annoying.

it sucked well enough the one time i went and yes the scene is nagl

sometimes bad service happens at good restaurants. last week we were in LA, visiting my wife's family, celebrated my father-in-law's 83rd bd at his favorite italian restaurant. been to this place many times, food and service have always been superb. they are regulars and know the chef/owner, but from what I've seen everybody gets the "special" treatment here. It's a small place. anyway the bd visit was a flat out disaster, service wise. we had 12 people in a separate room and right from the start it was like the waiters had never served customers before. drinks forgotten, wrong drinks brought, half the table given bread half not, waiters disappearing for long stretches, dishes brought out at various times. etc etc i can't remember everything that went wrong. truth be told my in-laws can be a bit demanding - they're old - but this was restaurant armageddon. the food *tasted* great as always, i had flawless heirloom tomato/burrata starter & pasta w/rabbit ragu. i pride myself on patience (martinis help), still i underatand why my hosts bummed out.

hope i don't sound like some show-me foodie prick with this. it was weird, idk what happened, the place was basically empty except for us! a confluence of bummers in the kitchen? imagine my in-laws will continue to frequent this place, guess it goes to show how tricky it is to run a restaurant and how important service is to the fine dining experience.

btw im in halifax atm

!!!

Having been a waiter before, bad service like that usually is one thing that goes wrong and snowballs.

If you had multiple waiters, my guess is you had a grouping of waiters who either did not communicate, or did not do it well, which would explain why things were inconsitent (ie, waiter doesn't bring bread cos he thinks someone else is doing it, etc).

truth be told my in-laws can be a bit demanding - they're old

think we all know by now that this is restaurant service review code for slapping asses

I'm a loyal paying customer and demand a lucious ass to slap

Tastebuds are half-gone and they need some reason to go out.

btw im in halifax atm

!!!

― Monstrous TumTum (Lamp), Wednesday, August 17, 2011 2:25 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

waht!

Same thing happened to me on my bday once, went to a restaurant I love going to and had enthused about to everyone and suddenly they were bringing wrong dishes, wrong drinks, etc.
Bringing the swipe device to your table to pay by CC is a common security thing in the UK. If you're handing over your CC to someone and they take it away then they could be copying all the details down. In theory you're not meant to let it leave your sight but no-one seems to give a shit in the US. (I've always thought the same about ordering stuff by phone, which is why I find it weird that some ppl I know are scared of entering CC details over an encrypted website but happily read them out to an unseen stranger on the phone). Not that I think it's a problem, although we have seen random amounts 'pending' in our accounts after paying with debit card at a restaurant, which later get cleared, and seem to be a standard thing.

i am going to be in halifax this wknd!

o dude im leaving on friday, but then i will be back in two weeks!

Just about the only occasions I've heard people complain about bad service (maybe 3-4 times total) have been the ones where I was present to witness the service itself, the better to confirm that the service was indeed bad, and it's not merely a case of the complainer being a whiny, self-important douchebag. In such cases, after the annoyance of the actual meal is over, the complaints take on the form of entertaining anecdotes that make for good conversational nuggets. So based on limited personal experience, I'll take the complaints, even though I've rarely never experienced one without the other. (The exception being the time my cousin and his parents had an overwhelmed server who threw down her tray and quit her job mid-meal, which sounded kinda awesome.)

i've got friends that are p. terrible with any kind of frontline staff, it's unpleasant to be out with them at times. I rarely find service so bad that i'd feel the need to complain tbh.

And then there's

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/eating/2011/08/restaurants_and_twitter_dont_a.php

The person tweeting from the restaurant sounds like a disgusting savage.

If you had multiple waiters, my guess is you had a grouping of waiters who either did not communicate, or did not do it well, which would explain why things were inconsitent (ie, waiter doesn't bring bread cos he thinks someone else is doing it, etc).

I only worked in one restaurant that got this right (part of the Pappas Bros umbrella) - management was distinct from floor/bar staff, you were told on day one of training that any issue gets taken to a manager immediately, managers were constantly moving around the restaurant looking at tables that needed refills/bread/etc. when they didn't have bigger issues to deal with.

re: question in thread title, I just refuse to go out to eat with people who make dining out feel like an effort (unless I'm absolutely obligated). If figuring the check is going to be a pain in the ass or you're going to loudly complain that the bread basket has been empty for two whole minutes, it's not worth it to me. Eating out should be a pleasure.

Training at the above place also emphasized teamwork among servers. If you've got your tables in order, check on sections around you, etc.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/woman-tweets-restaurant-employee-gets-thrown-162908258.html

haha

i thought the worst part of the richman piece was his attempt to tie what sounded like a uniquely weird/bad experience (no matter who was at fault) to some larger point about the decline of service. i eat out all the damn time at all kinds of places! service hasn't declined!

the second paragraph in that "woman gets thrown out for tweeting" thing is confusingly written.

This is not a complaint about service.

But why sell gift cards when you know you're only going to hate seeing them again in the future?

A customer buys a $20 card on May 1. That money goes into that day's till. Customer comes back on June 1 to redeem the card, taking inventory without contributing anything to that day's books.

I get that it's messed up, so why bother? Because 10% of the gift card sales get lost in a box somewhere and expire?

Yeah, I always feel vaguely guilty when paying with a gift card, even though they sold it to me (although we're still coming in and tipping well).

Of course, we only bought the gift cards because once a year this particular pizza place offers a deal where you buy $50 in gift cards and get $25 free (or something similar), so we stock up. But we'd be dumb not to, it's free pizza!

It felt particularly weird when restaurants first started opening up...many of them had sold gift cards during the pandemic to help keep afloat, but then it felt weird to use them right away.

The look I get when I present one, even with the extra and the tipping...

And I understand the look! Using a gift card at Best Buy or wherever is different because the only labor involved is stocking the shelf and ringing you up. It's not like a restaurant where someone makes the product for you, right there on the spot.

That's why you tip at restaurants and not at Best Buy, but it still doesn't sit right with the staff or even the customers.

The issuing biz is making points on that banking those GC funds. That interest adds to their margins without having to touch inventory nor depleting working capital. It's like an interest-free loan.