Pesach is upon us. Who up in this bitch is keeping Kosher for Passover?
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Nope. My excuse is that my wife wouldn't tolerate it, but really it's me, not her.
― otm in new york (G00blar), Monday, 6 April 2009 14:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Yep. With family for Passover and they're huge kosher-keepers, so we're also kosher-keepers by default.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm all for eating some matzah, but no way I'm koshering my kitchen.
Also: not actually Jewish, so technically not obligated to do shit.
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link
i'm invited to a house for passover where they'll be drinking and smoking lots of trees
― Surmounter, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Haha, ditto. Possibly the same one.
What does koshering actually involve, anyway? I'm vaguely aware of boiling water and possibly some earth or dirt or something? I know you can kosher stainless steel sinks and dishwashers etc but not ceramic or enamel ones. It must be enough of a pain that people cover their counters for Passover rather than deal with it.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link
strut around with a candle looking for leavened shit
― s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Okay so I read this thread title to the tone/pace of the sample starting Front 242's 'Welcome to Paradise.'
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 6 April 2009 14:58 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp
My parents fill their sinks with boiling water, then drop a burning hot brick into the water in the sink until it overflows on the counter. I think that's how they kasher their sinks. I know one guy who uses a blowtorch.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link
whoa
― s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh yeah. You can't really blow-torch the Corian, can you. I guess I assumed you'd have to get a rabbi in for the ritual re-purification. Is that actually a DIY project? Cool!
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:07 (fourteen years ago) link
We got offered a couple of really cheap apartments in a Lubavitch nabe, until they found out my roomie has a dog. But I specified that we wouldn't be a religious household, or keep kosher, and they were like, whatever, we can take care of that. So...really? The oven, too?
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:09 (fourteen years ago) link
Self-cleaning oven.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:12 (fourteen years ago) link
And yeah, this stuff can all be done DIY style. As long as you know the laws, there's nothing you need a Rabbi for.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link
Awesome. I do love the endless ingenuity, practical AND theological.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm celebrating Passover by saying something about it on the internet.
― Zero Transfats Waller (Oilyrags), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link
we have some matzah in the house and will probably be going to a seder. I don't bother with the kosherness, I ain't wandering in any stupid desert.
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 15:52 (fourteen years ago) link
i really like passover, am i crazy?
― cutty, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:04 (fourteen years ago) link
no its usually my fave
― s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link
i bought kosher for passover coke yesterday. it's delicious.
― right thread, Ned (mizzell), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link
ooh nice
― s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link
it's like thanksgiving, in april, without bread
― cutty, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link
OH SHIT PASSOVER COKE. Need.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
I am going to a seder (my first), but because the hostess can't do it on the usual night(s), we're doing it on the 18th. Pseudo-seder. But I'm still psyched. Might try to sort of keep kosher-ish just to see what it's like.
Ooooh and I'm in charge of making charoset for the pseudo-seder, so recipes pls!
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link
lol i read that coke thing really wrong.xposts
― tehresa, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link
Also: how much hebrew vs. english at your seder?
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link
I never understood why anything other than unleavened bread is necessary though? I mean no bread as a symbol/reminder of events passed makes sense, keeping kosher out of respect for the period I can see, but, like not being allowed to eat corn? What's up with that?
― mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:32 (fourteen years ago) link
um are you unfamiliar with the passover story or what
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:33 (fourteen years ago) link
oh snap
― s1ocki, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link
During Passover, Jews refrain from eating chometz: anything that contains barley, wheat, rye, oats, and spelt, and is not cooked within 18 minutes after coming in contact with water. No leavening is allowed. This signifies the fact that the Hebrews had no time to let their bread rise as they made a hurried escape from Egypt. Jews of different backgrounds do not observe all of the same rules. Ashkenazi Jews, who come from Europe (most Jews in America), also avoid corn, rice, peanuts, and legumes as they are also used to make bread and may have other grains mixed in. These items are known as kitniyot.
― mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link
I thought it was anything that swells in contact with water? Or something like that. No corn syrup, in any case, which gives us delicious REAL SUGAR COKE.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:38 (fourteen years ago) link
The Torah instructs a Jew not to eat (or even possess) chometz all seven days of Passover (Exodus 13:3). "Chometz" is defined as any of the five grains (wheat, spelt, barley, oats, and rye) that came into contact with water for more than 18 minutes. This is a serious Torah prohibition, and for that reason we take extra protective measures on Passover to prevent any mistakes.
Which brings us to another category of food called "kitniyot" (sometimes referred to generically as "legumes"). This includes rice, corn, soy beans, string beans, peas, lentils, peanuts, mustard, sesame seeds and poppy seeds. Even though kitniyot cannot technically become chometz, Ashkenazi Jews do not eat them on Passover. Why?
The Smak (Rabbi Moshe of Kouchi, 13th century, France) explains that products of kitniyot appear like chometz products. For example, it can be hard to distinguish between rice flour (kitniyot) and wheat flour (chometz). Therefore, to prevent confusion, all kitniyot was prohibited.
― mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm throwing myself in with the Sephardic camp this year.
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:42 (fourteen years ago) link
Take a Hot Dogand make it Kosher
― the drummer from the hilarious 1990's Britpop act Gay Dad (wanko ergo sum), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:45 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh makes more sense, and yes, I know the story, but I'm wondering why go so much further than just bread, I mean, Matzah is just unleavened bread, still has wheat in it and all, it's not like they didn't have enough time to cook pasta when escaping Egypt.
― mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Keep hearing the spoken intro to "One Step Beyond" when I see this thread title.
― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Which is to say, eating corn is a long ways away from letting bread rise.
― mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:48 (fourteen years ago) link
Don't eat that - EAT THIS
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 16:51 (fourteen years ago) link
passover is a great holiday.G R E A T
BUT, the Haggadahs have not arrived in the mail from my grandfather yet and I'm also getting a bit nervous about seating... also, anyone have a good veggie matzoh ball soup recipe? vegetarians certainly won't eat teh brisket.
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link
good god how do vegetarians ever survive during Passover without the grains?
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:58 (fourteen years ago) link
apparently quinoa is ok.
― mizzell, Monday, 6 April 2009 16:59 (fourteen years ago) link
good to qui-know-a
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link
Seven days of quinoa and matzah sounds . . . constipating.
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:00 (fourteen years ago) link
Can we turn this thread also into a list of all of the awesome things about being jewish in general?
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:01 (fourteen years ago) link
1. Chosen people.2. Latkes
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:02 (fourteen years ago) link
3. Talmud
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
4. hot sabbath sex
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:03 (fourteen years ago) link
5. Neuroses
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link
6. control of the media/money
― quincie, Monday, April 6, 2009 11:58 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
This may explain my increased secularism that started around the time I became vegetarian.
― mehlt, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:04 (fourteen years ago) link
6. Noodle kugel
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:05 (fourteen years ago) link
7. Tikkun olam as commandment
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:07 (fourteen years ago) link
7. anything heimische...
― suggest bánh mi (suzy), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link
8. Lady rabbis (in non-Orthodox movements)
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link
9. All our base
― the drummer from the hilarious 1990's Britpop act Gay Dad (wanko ergo sum), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Tikkun olam is my favorite part of Judaism ever. Concept and metaphor equally awesome.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link
The Golders Green and St. Louis Park eruvs.
― suggest bánh mi (suzy), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:09 (fourteen years ago) link
10. sense of humor
― cutty, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:11 (fourteen years ago) link
what's the deal with "rabbi jose" btw
― CNTFACE (omar little), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:29 (fourteen years ago) link
11. Woody Allen movies
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:31 (fourteen years ago) link
vicky cristina barcelona?
― Blackout Crew are the Beatles of donk (jim), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link
12. Tongue (not explicitly Jewish I know)
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link
no thxhttp://www.bangitout.com/uploads/32genesimmons.jpg
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link
13. Philip Roth14. Having an entire holiday dedicated to alcohol (Purim)15. Klezmer
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:35 (fourteen years ago) link
14. Having an entire holiday dedicated to alcohol (Purim)
^^^this
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:37 (fourteen years ago) link
13. Philip David Lee Roth
fixed
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Today there's a blessing you can make on the sun that can only be made like once every 25 years. That's pretty cool.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, klezmer wildly OTM but I find Roth totally 100% repellent.
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:39 (fourteen years ago) link
according to the brooklyn paper this is only the 3rd time in history that the sun is in the same position during passover that it was when it was first created
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:39 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^^ awesome
― ian, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link
going to an orthodox seder as a favor to moms, not looking forward to it (mostly because it goes well past midnight, is an hour and a half away, and i have to work in the morning)
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link
One sucky thing about being Jewish: Often (like this Passover), the two days of Chag run into Shabbat, which means that observant Jews (including my family) will be keeping three days straight of no electricity and such. Almost everyone always secretly cheats around the second day to take showers.
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:46 (fourteen years ago) link
You can take a shower, I thought, you just can't dry off? What if you stood with your arms out until you air dried?
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:48 (fourteen years ago) link
Or put on a big fluffy bathrobe?
my dad is currently trying to make me feel guilty for not going to a sedar
― iatee, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:53 (fourteen years ago) link
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Monday, April 6, 2009
you and i both know that there is no significance whatsoever to this, though. i read it in the paper.
― he sounded italian enough to give me something (the schef (adam schefter ha ha)), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:54 (fourteen years ago) link
what did the paper say?
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 6 April 2009 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link
14. Tallits look comfy. Not so different from a snuggy.
― quincie, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:56 (fourteen years ago) link
xxpost the significance is awesomeness
― iatee, Monday, 6 April 2009 17:57 (fourteen years ago) link
So kosher for pesach is stricter than regular kosher, right? That would explain why the jewish bagel store down the shops had a big sign saying "NONE OF OUR PRODUCTS ARE KOSHER FOR PASSOVER PLEASE NOTE" which I didn't quite understand til now.
I've said this before, but I'm fascinated by all these traditions and rituals in Judaism. It is very odd, now I think on it, but I grew up knowing absolute zero about Jewish culture. There just werent any orthodox jews in the city I grew up in. Where I live now OTOH is an area concentrated with mainly Hassids and Lubavicts (I think thats right?).
― one art, please (Trayce), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:06 (fourteen years ago) link
having just finished six months of judaism class i'm ready to drop science at my gf's family's passover
― CNTFACE (omar little), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:08 (fourteen years ago) link
hahaha... make sure you explain the whole "all the days of our lives" thing
― s1ocki, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:12 (fourteen years ago) link
HEY JEWS just wanted to say "sup"
― ice cr?m, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:24 (fourteen years ago) link
hey ice cr?m how about changing your name to c?rvel for passover
― s1ocki, Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:27 (fourteen years ago) link
done and done - hav a nice holiday!
― c?rvel (ice cr?m), Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Haha. I won't keep kosher this year, but we'll have some sort of seder meal. So it's time to break-out the He'Brew Beer, from the Shmaltz Brewing Company.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 7 April 2009 00:55 (fourteen years ago) link
HEY JEWS tell me your favorite things to do with matzah, also CHAROSET RECIPES PLEASE PLEASE
― quincie, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:12 (fourteen years ago) link
wife is making some kind of matzah brickle this year
― This Board is a Prison on Planet Bullshit (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:15 (fourteen years ago) link
fellow traveller was telling me about some sort of matzah and egg fry-up, topped with maple syrup--might try it.
― quincie, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:15 (fourteen years ago) link
hey jews im goin to seder tonite
― c?rvel (ice cr?m), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:17 (fourteen years ago) link
tell em sup
― Lamp, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link
happy Pesach, jews. I would be rocking this if my ancestors hadn't been forced to convert to Catholicism by damn Spaniards.
― "Hey, We're Clubbing!" (Police Squad) (jim), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link
hey jews lamp says "sup"
― c?rvel (ice cr?m), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Once every 28 years, and it was today! (was in the news since the Antwerp Jewish community assembled in a park to bless teh Sun)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkat_Hachama
― StanM, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:23 (fourteen years ago) link
quincie, that would matzoh brei
I saw a matzoh toffee recipe in Martha Stewart!
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:28 (fourteen years ago) link
Gonna take off from work and go see the Orioles play the Yankees Thursday afternoon in Baltimore w/ my boy and then go to the second night seder at my folks. A quiet one at home tonight
mmmmm, matzoh brei
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:29 (fourteen years ago) link
I need better matzoh brei instructions.
― quincie, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:53 (fourteen years ago) link
My Trademark, Most Requested, Absolutely Magnificent Caramel Matzoh Crunch*
*Note: I've never made this.
― otm in new york (G00blar), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 16:55 (fourteen years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, April 8, 2009 11:29 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark
ots(hekel)
― bnw, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 17:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Take the matzo and break into small pieces into a bowl. Cover with hot water for a minute. Then squeeze out the water. In a small bowl, beat one egg with salt and pepper to taste and add to matzo. Mix well. Heat frying pan with a little oil. Pour mixture into the pan. Brown one side and turn over.
I don't soak the matza as much as this recipe for matzah brei
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 18:30 (fourteen years ago) link
I think Ruth Reichl put her recipe in the book about her childhood -- is that Tender at the Bone? I think so.
― guys i need to eliminate this business associate and im really nervous (Laurel), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 18:32 (fourteen years ago) link
that recipe needs + milk + powdered sugar
― iatee, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 18:41 (fourteen years ago) link
- salt - pepper
See I can't really picture this squeezing out the water business? Do you, like, wad it up and squeeze it in a ball? Press it between parallel palms to keep it flat? Isn't it going to fall apart?
― quincie, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 19:30 (fourteen years ago) link
I've made that crunch and am never making it again because is far too delicious, and far too rich for its own good.
― mehlt, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:28 (fourteen years ago) link
what up jews its ya boy
― HOOS talking about magic & spells & steen dude! (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:29 (fourteen years ago) link
ive been instructed to bring the traditional extra large force flex trash bags to the seder
― c?rvel (ice cr?m), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:38 (fourteen years ago) link
that's for the bodies
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Dammit Ned, now I'm reading this thread's title just like that Front 242 track as well (but it gets funnier as it goes on: "... you don't have to be jews anymore: jesus is here!" :-)
― StanM, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:58 (fourteen years ago) link
Dammit Ned, now I'm reading this thread's title just like that Front 242 track as well (but it gets funnier as it goes on: "... you don't have to be jews anymore: jesus is here!" :-) )
Oops.
― StanM, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 22:59 (fourteen years ago) link
hey jews
― i like to fart and i am crazy (gbx), Wednesday, 8 April 2009 23:09 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.theppk.com/recipes/dbrecipes/index.php?RecipeID=147
^^^ for ian
pesach was fun - i accidentally said "i like oral..." when i was trying to say "i like oil cured olives" - and of course stopped in befuddlement before saying "olives" perfectly framing my gaff - those who heard me myself included went on a minutes long laughing jag while everyone else was all wha happened - then we watched lost
― c?rvel (ice cr?m), Thursday, 9 April 2009 23:50 (fourteen years ago) link
hey jews missed u
― HOOS talking about magic & spells & steen dude! (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 9 April 2009 23:50 (fourteen years ago) link
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 9 April 2009 23:51 (fourteen years ago) link
― quincie, Wednesday, April 8, 2009 7:30 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark
You're just getting the matzah wet, putting on paper towels to dry a bit and then putting it into the eggs. Following that recipe above too closely you will have disintegrating matzah that will fall apart completely before ever making it to the eggs
― curmudgeon, Friday, 10 April 2009 12:45 (fourteen years ago) link
Obama hosts 1st ever White House seder
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/obama-to-host-seder-dinner/
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 11 April 2009 23:47 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey Jews I wrote a little passover ditty, sung to the chorus of "Eye of the Tiger":
It's theBread of affliction It's the bread of the JewsRisen bread--it's not kosher during Pe-sachAnd my boss--says "be careful! It is con-sti-pa-ting"I-don't-care-I-just-ate-sev-en sheeeeeeeeeetsOf the mat-zah
― quincie, Sunday, 12 April 2009 21:44 (fourteen years ago) link
XD
― I think no pants is sexy. (Matt P), Sunday, 12 April 2009 21:48 (fourteen years ago) link
so this "That Jew!" thing with Chuck Schumer (which totally just makes me think of "That Girl!") reminded me of something I wanted to ask my fellow Jews... my wife (Hungarian, raised as a Catholic but now she's pretty much buddhist-pagan-whatever) was talking with me the other day about how, for the longest time, she thought it was derogatory to refer to Jewish people as "Jews". I said no, of course not, people who are Jewish are Jews. As a proper noun, there's nothing wrong with it. Used as a VERB ("he jewed me out of my college fund!") or an ADJECTIVE ("Jew lawyer") then that's anti-semitic, a slur, etc. But then there's this thing with Schumer.... I mean, obviously referring to him as "that Jew" is rude at best... but is it just the "that" in front of it that makes it so? I mean, Schumer IS a Jew, its not like he called him a kike or anything. Is this like when McCain referred to Obama as "that one"?
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:32 (fourteen years ago) link
also just wanted to say A+ for this
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:34 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/busey_clapping.gif
xp
― "the whale saw her" (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:35 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah that song is even better in person
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:36 (fourteen years ago) link
and yeah Shakey I think it's the that here that makes it so weird.
she thought it was derogatory to refer to Jewish people as "Jews".
lol, i was raised Catholic and I thought the same thing for awhile
― Mr. Que, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:32 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
it's the "that" but also calling someone "a" jew seems like it has a bit of a pejorative connotation, just because it makes the jewishness the sole defining quality. like calling someone "a" black.
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Yeah, the nasty part wasn't "Jew," it was "that." Like "that woman." Or when McCain called Obama "that guy."
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:46 (fourteen years ago) link
I work with a girl who called South Williamsburg "the Jew section" and called Andy Samberg "the young Jew on SNL".
― tokyo rosemary, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link
hmmm.... yeah I guess the pejorative thing is key here. This all came up because my wife was asking if one of our friends was Jewish and I think I said "oh yeah, he's a Jew" and she was all "how come you can say that and I can't?" and I said "what the hell are you talking about? He's Jewish! He's a Jew!" etc. you can guess the rest
x-post
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:49 (fourteen years ago) link
as a response to "is he jewish" it's ok, but if you're like just generally calling him "a jew" it would be weird
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:52 (fourteen years ago) link
like, "you know that jew i work with? he's really into lost."
b/c of the whole desert thing?
― bnw, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link
i think the main thing is that it just seems irrelevant to the context here?
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:54 (fourteen years ago) link
lol bnw
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:55 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^ditto
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:55 (fourteen years ago) link
which is basically what slocki said. there's nothing inherently wrong with the phrase "a jew" or even "that jew", but it's reductive and weird in this context.
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link
What about bringing back "Jewess"?
― But not someone who should be dead anyway (Laurel), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:56 (fourteen years ago) link
Also see "Mexican".
― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
what about the month of "Jew-n"
― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Jack: It's not because you're a... I'm sorry. What... do you call... yourself ?Elisa: A Puerto Rican.Jack: No, I know you can say that but what do I call you?Elisa: Puerto Rican.Jack: Wow. That does not sound right.
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
when i make hamantashen and give them to friends i sometimes refer to them as "jew treats", is that bad
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:58 (fourteen years ago) link
I would make it clear tho that even if you can call someone Jewish or a Jew, I'd still stay away from calling them a kike.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 May 2009 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^lolz yeah not really a lot of grey area there
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:02 (fourteen years ago) link
sheeny mo collier
― velko, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:03 (fourteen years ago) link
too bad cankles can't add to this discussion
― velko, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:06 (fourteen years ago) link
My gf's mom was telling us about her hairdresser's trip to Moscow or whatever, and I was like, "Oh, is she Russian?" and my gf's mom said "Yes" and then, apropos of nothing, blurted out "She's also Jewish" -- which made it seem like it's all she can think about when she's getting her hair done and she just had to tell someone.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:07 (fourteen years ago) link
heheh
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:08 (fourteen years ago) link
it's the "that" but also calling someone "a" jew seems like it has a bit of a pejorative connotation, just because it makes the jewishness the sole defining quality
the "that" doesn't actually do this - "jew" does alone - but it provides an assist to the othering
― "the whale saw her" (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:10 (fourteen years ago) link
ya, that's why i said also - the that just emphasizes it.
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:13 (fourteen years ago) link
I imagine some of this depends on tone/motivation. If you're a Jew, or a Jewophile, and you're like, "AND HE'S JEWISH," that might just mean that you love Jews and you love mentioning it. (My family does this all the time with celebrities. In fact, there are some celebrities that we can't mention in any context without also mentioning they're Jewish.)
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:24 (fourteen years ago) link
see also canadian
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:33 (fourteen years ago) link
i mean, i think all jews do that, but canadians do too, and when it's a canadian jew, you better watch out.
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link
SHATNER!
― High in Openness (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:37 (fourteen years ago) link
trifecta for me - montreal jew
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link
Gay Canadian Jew David Rakoff had a funny bit about this on This American Life years ago:http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=793
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:41 (fourteen years ago) link
all canadians know that episode
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:42 (fourteen years ago) link
I would imagine.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:43 (fourteen years ago) link
weirdly enough, i am going to a book launch for a jewish montreal TAL contributor in an hour.
― s1ocki, Thursday, 14 May 2009 22:45 (fourteen years ago) link
You can just say Jonathan Goldstein, it's OK.
― Bianca Jagger (jaymc), Thursday, 14 May 2009 23:05 (fourteen years ago) link
jew.xls
― Nasty British and Short (hmmmm), Friday, 15 May 2009 00:28 (fourteen years ago) link
Great article calling out N0rm4n P0dh0r3tz:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/books/review/Wieseltier-t.html?_r=2&ref=books&pagewanted=all
― Mordy, Monday, 14 September 2009 05:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Shana Tova to the tribe!
― quincie, Friday, 18 September 2009 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link
haa great revive
― goole, Friday, 18 September 2009 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
my best friend just texted me this. Shana Tova. And the year we're living in.
― Nathalie (stevienixed), Friday, 18 September 2009 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link
I am going to services tonight and tomorrow. I am like the best not-Jew ever.
― quincie, Friday, 18 September 2009 21:19 (fourteen years ago) link
shana tova!
I ain't doin jackshit for Rosh Hashanah this year! well my wife might make some farfel and I will eat it but that's not really significant.
― Hat Trick Swayze (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 September 2009 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link
Podhoretz seems to be living the Vilna Gaon’s adage — maybe he can find it in some encyclopedia — that the best way for a man to preserve his purity is never to leave his house.
damn dude!
― goole, Friday, 18 September 2009 21:27 (fourteen years ago) link
Shana Tova, dudes!
― Mordy, Friday, 18 September 2009 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
quincie why aren't you Jewish
― holosystolic murmur and the thrill (gbx), Friday, 18 September 2009 22:35 (fourteen years ago) link
tryin to find a shul in this town where you don't need season tickets
― collardio gelatinous, Saturday, 19 September 2009 03:05 (fourteen years ago) link
apples + honey = A+
― bnw, Saturday, 19 September 2009 05:00 (fourteen years ago) link
my jewish friend called me up and said: "did you understand my textmessage?" i replied i did. "I wish you a happy new year too! Isn't it fantastic that a goy knows it's new year?" she replied I was turning Jewish. "But of course, I sell JEWELLERY!"
― Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 20 September 2009 21:14 (fourteen years ago) link
After more than two years of living in this neighborhood, my neighbors have finally discovered I might make a good Shabbos goyim. A neighbor knocked on my door at 9am today, asking if I could help her out, as she had forgotten to unscrew a lightbulb in a freezer, and needed to get in there.
― Pancakes Batman (Pancakes Hackman), Sunday, 20 September 2009 22:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Shana Tova after the fact. Mmmmm leftover brisket and chicken soup
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 20 September 2009 23:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Haha Pancakes that's happened to my ex a couple of times - he was strolling by the rabinnical college across the street one evening after dark and a guy came out and asked him to turn his bedroom light off o_0
― Dearth Disco (Trayce), Sunday, 20 September 2009 23:22 (fourteen years ago) link
kinky
― yo gotti gotti! (Curt1s Stephens), Sunday, 20 September 2009 23:22 (fourteen years ago) link
wanna flick my switch?
― velko, Sunday, 20 September 2009 23:56 (fourteen years ago) link
have i told you guys that my girlfriends all tell me i would make a very good jew? i'm very proud of it
― surm, Sunday, 20 September 2009 23:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Well, I am in Jew School so it may happen some day, or not. Would be hard to be the only Jew in the entire family. One of my books for class is a "How to Keep Kosher" book; Mr. Que saw it and was like "UH PLEASE TELL ME WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE KEEPING KOSHER" 'cause y'know we're both pretty into bacon and lobster and cheeseburgers.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 00:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyway kugel is like soooooooo good; I ate a ton yesterday. Also threw some crumbs into the creek because I am emo like that.
Also: singing "A Wonderful World" at RH day 1 services classic or mega dud?
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 00:32 (fourteen years ago) link
Crut - its lucky that wasnt also the time N had his fly down on his pants, lol.
― Dearth Disco (Trayce), Monday, 21 September 2009 00:33 (fourteen years ago) link
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to ILX for my wrongs. Please forgive me. You have three chances.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 01:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Like I'm sorry I was mean to surmounter that one time. And to gabbneb many times. Oh geez please tell me I don't have to track down gabbneb to apologize to him in person?
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 01:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Anyone else I was mean to on ILX? Speak now or, er, in the next nine days pls.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 01:03 (fourteen years ago) link
it's all good quincie. let's keep it in the past. it sucked but it's LONG GONE
― surm, Monday, 21 September 2009 01:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Thanks surm! You are a peach and a true asset to ILX. Much <3 to you sorry I was hatin'.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 01:12 (fourteen years ago) link
waht is Jew School?!
― holosystolic murmur and the thrill (gbx), Monday, 21 September 2009 02:00 (fourteen years ago) link
and come you want to be jewish? (serious question)
― DAN P3RRY MAD AT GRANDMA (just1n3), Monday, 21 September 2009 02:14 (fourteen years ago) link
favorite fictional jew will always be sid dithers
"San Franciscy? So how did you came, did you drove or did you flew?"
― velko, Monday, 21 September 2009 03:07 (fourteen years ago) link
am i the only one who is thinking about Hey Jude while reading this thread?
― Zeno, Monday, 21 September 2009 03:32 (fourteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey,_Slavs
― 31g, Monday, 21 September 2009 03:45 (fourteen years ago) link
i don't think that's very funny zeno
― surm, Monday, 21 September 2009 04:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey Juden
― Pancakes Batman (Pancakes Hackman), Monday, 21 September 2009 12:25 (fourteen years ago) link
Pancakes, goyim is plural, you would be a Shabbos goy.
Elvis was a Shabbos goy!
― tokyo rosemary, Monday, 21 September 2009 12:39 (fourteen years ago) link
One of my teachers told me Colin Powell was also a Shabbos goy!
Not sure I will take the plunge (those familiar with the mikveh will get the pun) and become an actual Jew, but in the meantime I am attending a two-semester conversion course co-sponsored by three Conservative congregations in the area.
Believe me, if you'd have told me I'd be doing this even like five years ago, I'd have told you you were nuts given that I considered myself an atheist! But having stumbled into to Judaic studies I've found a lot that resonates. We'll see how it goes. At the very least I am filling in a gaping hole in my education--I have never taken so much as a comparative religion course in college. And nothing from my Episcopal upbringing stuck.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 13:22 (fourteen years ago) link
I went to see Inglorious Basterds on Sat night
― Hat Trick Swayze (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 September 2009 15:35 (fourteen years ago) link
What is a 'shabbos goy' exactly? It sounds quite cool. Is it demanding?
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 21 September 2009 15:45 (fourteen years ago) link
During Shabbot, many/most traditional (i.e. Orthodox) Jews observe prohibitions against things like turning lights off and on, mowing the lawn, etc.; some hire (ahead of time, as conducting business/using money is also prohibited during Shabbot) other people (i.e. non-Jews) to do these things for them on that day. I don't know if this is commonly practiced any more?
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 15:50 (fourteen years ago) link
It is! My dad's wife had a job as the accounts manager for a bagel factory run by Orthodox Israelis in St Paul and found herself shabbos goying for them whenever they needed help on dark Friday afternoons etc.
― lacoste intolerant (suzy), Monday, 21 September 2009 16:02 (fourteen years ago) link
I've been a shabbos goy on two occasions! Turning stove burners off/down/up once, fixing a fridge light the other time.
― that stupid-ass cannibal pen-pal of yours (Laurel), Monday, 21 September 2009 16:09 (fourteen years ago) link
it sounds like an unanswerable argument for diaspora living
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 21 September 2009 16:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Any of you Jews fasting today?
― Mordy, Monday, 21 September 2009 17:41 (fourteen years ago) link
Why would a Jew do that? Next Monday, yes (Yom Kippur). But if there is a day-after-second-day-of-Rosh-Hashana fast, I have yet to learn about it.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 18:43 (fourteen years ago) link
I thought you were supposed to fast between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur (fwiw, I am not. I even ate crab last night oooh)
― Hat Trick Swayze (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 September 2009 18:47 (fourteen years ago) link
apparently it is a fast day, although i can't imagine non-orthodox jews observe it:Tishrei 3rd is a fast day mourning the assassination of the Jewish royal Gedaliah ben Achikam, governor of the Land of Israel for a short period following the destruction of the First Temple. Gedaliah's killing spelled the end of the small remnant of a Jewish community that remained in the Holy Land after the destruction, which fled to Egypt. (According to many opinions, the assassination of Gedaliah actually occurred on Rosh Hashanah, but the commemoration of the event is postponed to the day after the festival).
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 21 September 2009 18:49 (fourteen years ago) link
OH yeah now I do remember reading something about that! Yeah I don't know anyone who fasts for that.
Yom Kippur fasting tips would be appreciated, though.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 18:52 (fourteen years ago) link
Tip #1: Don't accidentally eat anything.
― that stupid-ass cannibal pen-pal of yours (Laurel), Monday, 21 September 2009 18:54 (fourteen years ago) link
are "energy gels" considered food?
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 21 September 2009 18:56 (fourteen years ago) link
well given that water is a no-no, I'm gonna go with energy gel=food.
― quincie, Monday, 21 September 2009 19:01 (fourteen years ago) link
Eat kreplach before the fast starts.
― Mordy, Monday, 21 September 2009 19:03 (fourteen years ago) link
what would be a nice thing to say to a Jew today?
― holosystolic murmur and the thrill (gbx), Monday, 21 September 2009 19:04 (fourteen years ago) link
shana tova
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 21 September 2009 19:18 (fourteen years ago) link
or anything except "hey jew"
― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 21 September 2009 19:19 (fourteen years ago) link
"what would be a nice thing to say to a Jew today?
― holosystolic murmur and the thrill (gbx), 19:04 יום שני 21 ספטמבר 2009 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalinkshana tova"
also: gmar hatima tova
― Zeno, Monday, 21 September 2009 21:18 (fourteen years ago) link
also: you have a nice tuchas
― bnw, Monday, 21 September 2009 22:51 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^always good to hear
― Hat Trick Swayze (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 21 September 2009 22:52 (fourteen years ago) link
HEY! (HEY!)JEWS! (JEWS!)I DON'T LIKE YOUR GIRLFRIEND
― merked, Monday, 21 September 2009 23:45 (fourteen years ago) link
So at the reform Rosh Hashanah service I went to they blew the shofar (actually they had 4 people blowing them) even though it was Shabbat/the Sabbath (they do not blow the shofar on Shabbat in Conservative and Orthodox synagogues), and the Rabbi had his sermon on his Mac (not handwritten notes). Wow.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 September 2009 03:42 (fourteen years ago) link
OK and I thought "What a Wonderful World" sing-along was bad.
Hey Jews FYI last night in Jew School I learned that according to the Talmud, pickle liquor does not count as food/drink on Yom Kippur. So I will be taking a flask of pickle juice to services.
― quincie, Tuesday, 22 September 2009 12:56 (fourteen years ago) link
yall i had the most amazing jewish-hungarian food in budapest last week, thank you so much for existing for 5000 years and undergoing countless acts of persecution so you could bring me stuffed goose neck and cabbage noodles
― fleetwood (max), Sunday, 27 September 2009 09:27 (fourteen years ago) link
You could say we invented comfort food.
― moley, Sunday, 27 September 2009 21:34 (fourteen years ago) link
i didnt know stuffed goose is an hungarian dish?!more like goulash and stuffed cabbage...
― Zeno, Sunday, 27 September 2009 21:43 (fourteen years ago) link
easy fast, jews!
― Mordy, Sunday, 27 September 2009 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link
more like an easy 24 hours stay at home for me.i'm not fasting, but i gotta finish this book..
― Zeno, Sunday, 27 September 2009 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link
g'mar hativah tova!
― quincie, Sunday, 27 September 2009 22:02 (fourteen years ago) link
oy gevalt
― one less mouth to feed is one less mouth to feed (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 October 2009 17:22 (fourteen years ago) link
Tattoo jew. I could do.
― cough syrup in coke cans (Eric H.), Friday, 30 October 2009 17:24 (fourteen years ago) link
some of those tats are pretty sweet
― (oh PORRIDGE) (HI DERE), Friday, 30 October 2009 17:25 (fourteen years ago) link
Jorgen101
Why should I care about this? Christians adopted a "fresher" take on their religion and gave the world Stryper, Evanescence, and Creed. Screw religion.13 minutes ago | Reply | Like | Report abuse
ronen
A "fresher" take Jorgen101? Yes, how could we forget "Christian freshness" spawned Hitler, the KKK, Southern Baptist lynchings, African American Slave trade, and an entirely beautiful re-versioning that Jesus himself wasn't really Jewish but somehow a blonde-haired, blue eyed Aryan. Thank you for "freshening" up Religion Jorgen101, I'm sure everyone's money donations in the collection bins on Sunday would be greatly appreciated and everyone needs to convert to the "fresher" religion, because we all know through history what happens to those who choose not to convert ;) you're quite the intellect here on this CNN discussion. less5 minutes ago | Like | Report abuse
ronen has some very challenging opinions, should post here
― velko, Friday, 30 October 2009 17:53 (fourteen years ago) link
"When I'm on stage screaming, hitting my face with a microphone and pouring beer on my head, at least I'm singing about the Torah," said the 26-year-old founder of PunkTorah, an outreach effort to inspire Jewish spirituality.
UH
― quincie, Friday, 30 October 2009 18:22 (fourteen years ago) link
tbh I thought that was awesome
― (oh PORRIDGE) (HI DERE), Friday, 30 October 2009 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link
These Internet and media savvy Jews are behind what Ari Wallach, a 34-year-old social entrepreneur and consultant in New York, likes to call "Judaism 2.0."
OY VEY
― quincie, Friday, 30 October 2009 18:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Maybe we should change thread title.
― quincie, Friday, 30 October 2009 18:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Oy. I know some of the people involved with this, but I wasn't sure what it was till now.
― Mordy, Friday, 30 October 2009 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Why should I care about this? Christians adopted a "fresher" take on their religion and gave the world Stryper, Evanescence, and Creed. Screw religion.
OTM
― amateurist, Friday, 30 October 2009 23:19 (fourteen years ago) link
"judaism 2.0"
somehow i feel like we've been though more than just one version in the last several thousand years. more like judaism 1,769.0.
― amateurist, Friday, 30 October 2009 23:21 (fourteen years ago) link
I wish there was some kind of reasonable middle ground between being a hidebound traditionalist and a tattooed idiot blogger
― one less mouth to feed is one less mouth to feed (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 30 October 2009 23:23 (fourteen years ago) link
it's called indifference. been working for me.
― amateurist, Friday, 30 October 2009 23:24 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.jewcy.com/files/imagecache/img-carousel/files/camploljewz.jpg
loljews
― quincie, Monday, 16 November 2009 21:06 (fourteen years ago) link
http://images.magnetmail.net/images/clients/SIXTHANDI/hamentaschennewsletter.jpg
Purim, bitchez!
― quincie, Tuesday, 2 February 2010 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link
drunkenness!
― The Tommy Westphall Universe Hypothesis (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 2 February 2010 16:41 (fourteen years ago) link
And, according to the above image, vaginas!
― quincie, Tuesday, 2 February 2010 16:43 (fourteen years ago) link
Ha. Not till February 28th, right?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 2 February 2010 19:46 (fourteen years ago) link
Correct. But it never to early for hamantachen (sp?) vaginas, really.
― quincie, Tuesday, 2 February 2010 19:47 (fourteen years ago) link
I have hamantaschen earrings.
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 3 February 2010 00:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Awesome.
So rapper/singer/tv actor Drake's Mom is Jewish and he had a Bar Mitzvah though he didn't go to Hebrew School. He is interviewed here by an annoying interviewer (some ugly Youtube comments included)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJJrvgYPXSo
― curmudgeon, Monday, 15 February 2010 21:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Or do we have a separate "Wow, He's Jewish" thread where us Jews express joy or shame!
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 17:12 (fourteen years ago) link
how do you have a bar mitzvah without going to Hebrew school...? did he just "wing it" through the torah portion or what?
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 16 February 2010 17:18 (fourteen years ago) link
Might've had a party but didn't read from the Torah.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 17:22 (fourteen years ago) link
My son says he just skipped class alot but that he worked with a tutor so as to read from the Torah.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Oh, yeah. I didn't learn to lein from school. I learnt from one of the torah readers from my shul
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:05 (fourteen years ago) link
I cried in Hebrew class the other week. Felt like a real Jew!
― quincie, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link
Crying made you feel like a real Jew?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:09 (fourteen years ago) link
I watched A Serious Man and man did that make me feel like a real jew
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:19 (fourteen years ago) link
Jew even
Having a Hebrew school meltdown seemed like a Jewish rite of passage, is all.
― quincie, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:33 (fourteen years ago) link
WHY U SO HARD TO LEARN, HEBREW?
― quincie, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 18:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Wait till you try to read it without the vowels. You might need a straight jacket then.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 19:35 (fourteen years ago) link
God... 6 years of hebrew school and all I got was an ability to kind of read - but not understand - hebrew, which I'll never have a use for*
*Actually, when I worked at a library archive last year, I was able to match transliterated titles to the original ones instead of checking the book's call number, but that's it.
― EDB, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 21:38 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah it is weird that I was basically taught how to read (ie pronounce) a written language but have absolutely no clue what any given words mean or how the language is even structured
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 16 February 2010 21:40 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey Jews! I'm going to the Kosher Mart later today--what sorts of Pesach-y stuff should I get?
Also, I would like to repost this:
― quincie, Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:44 PM (11 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― quincie, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:16 (fourteen years ago) link
haven't we suffered enough
― for me to chilt on (bnw), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:30 (fourteen years ago) link
gluttons for suffering
― quincie, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:33 (fourteen years ago) link
i love quincie's jew fetish
― shite new answers (cutty), Tuesday, 23 March 2010 14:39 (fourteen years ago) link
srsly I am like 110% more into jews than I am into anything else, including bacon
― quincie, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:16 (fourteen years ago) link
omg I just learned from the WS thread that rashida jones is jewish! This is exciting news!
― quincie, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:20 (fourteen years ago) link
get into the jewsgirl you got to proveyou're a first rate heeeeeeeb, yeah
― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^^^ <3 this man, even though he isn't jewish.
― quincie, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 15:24 (fourteen years ago) link
Awwww, how sweet. Is he gonna make matzaball soup for you?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 20:55 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey, quincie, I heard on the radio this morning that some lipsticks might not be kosher for Passover.
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:51 (fourteen years ago) link
For Passover candy, I like the Joyva Marshmallow Twists. Or the fruit slices.
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 23 March 2010 23:55 (fourteen years ago) link
I am going to make matzah ball soup next week, though in a kitchen full of chametz.
I have THREE types of matzah at the ready. Need ideas for what to eat it with.
― quincie, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:44 (fourteen years ago) link
Not gonna worry about the lipstick given that not even my matzah ball soup is gonna be kosher (planning to use real butter instead of margarine/schmaltz/oil).
― quincie, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:45 (fourteen years ago) link
"haven't we suffered enough"
not to mention constipation
― Zeno, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 13:50 (fourteen years ago) link
Look at these pyramid-shaped matzah-balls that some architect cooked (in today's Washington Post Food section)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/23/AR2010032300722.html
I second the marshmallow twists and the fruit slices.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 24 March 2010 14:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Vegetarian seder at historic 6th & I synagogue in DC sold out.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 26 March 2010 14:03 (fourteen years ago) link
Passover time Monday
― curmudgeon, Monday, 29 March 2010 03:50 (fourteen years ago) link
i wish i had a seder to attend. no way am i going to the fucking hillel. always HATED those places.
― by another name (amateurist), Monday, 29 March 2010 03:51 (fourteen years ago) link
hillel zombies: hey, what USY chapter did you go to? when did you go to israel? isn't it amazing?me: fuck off.
― by another name (amateurist), Monday, 29 March 2010 03:52 (fourteen years ago) link
I never went to the Hillel ones (was close enough to go home). I am guessing the White House seder that was the subject of a NY Times article yesterday does not resemble the Hillel ones:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/us/politics/28seder.html?scp=1&sq=seder&st=cse
― curmudgeon, Monday, 29 March 2010 12:13 (fourteen years ago) link
Am going to a conservadox seder tonight! Excited! But then I am switching teams to Reform and not doing a second night seder. I'm ready with the matzoh, though.
― quincie, Monday, 29 March 2010 15:00 (fourteen years ago) link
Chag sameach jewbros! I'm going to my parents charedi seder
― Mordy, Monday, 29 March 2010 15:03 (fourteen years ago) link
so psyched for SEDER!
― shite new answers (cutty), Monday, 29 March 2010 15:27 (fourteen years ago) link
just finished my crazy wonderful seder at which i was somehow one of the only two jews present.
my mom's family didn't host a seder this yr, so i hosted one at my apartment for 15 or so friends for the second yr running. cooked a pot roast and matzoh ball soup from scratch and many other delicious things and they all turned out pretty well (although the soup itself could have been a bit stronger).
i now have mad respect for my bubbes and anyone who does yearly seders because this shit is DIFFICULT - especially when limited to 72 hours of prep time or less.
chag sameach, MoTs
― Alex in Montreal, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 05:29 (thirteen years ago) link
reallly missing the seder this year :( last year was fun at my old apartment, and i think this might be the first year i didn't celebrate at all. meant to grab some matzoh ball soup @ the jewish deli on 1st ave but didn't.
― ian, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 05:42 (thirteen years ago) link
these egg matzos taste exactly like the plain ones wtf
― quincie, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 15:50 (thirteen years ago) link
The 12 Plagues in peeps form: http://www.flickr.com/photos/17025280@N00/sets/72157600038845249/detail/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/441046093_2437c1534a_m.jpg
― Obama, Wellstone and Darwinfish, Attorneys (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 15:53 (thirteen years ago) link
for a holiday without bread there is sure a shit ton of carbs involved
― shite new answers (cutty), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 17:28 (thirteen years ago) link
Weird, cuz usually they don't. What's the brand?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Manischewitz passover egg "crackers" (i.e., mini matzo)
― quincie, Tuesday, 30 March 2010 20:41 (thirteen years ago) link
tam tams?!
― shite new answers (cutty), Tuesday, 30 March 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
This thread could use some of this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-v-Pv6KuTg
― ●●●●●●●● (EDB), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 02:51 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^not actually Jews, but inspiring nonetheless.
― quincie, Wednesday, 31 March 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Y'all eating "matzah bri" (scrambled eggs with matzah) and gefilte fish and left-over chicken soup still...I am
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 April 2010 13:59 (thirteen years ago) link
I've finished the egg matzah crackers (lol at "according to ashkenazic practice, all egg matzo may be eaten only by the young, infirm or aged. If you are of sephardic ancestry, consult your rabbi.") and am moving on to the Rakusen's Tea Matzos and the Yehuda regular matzah. Have not yet attempted matzah brei, but intend to this weekend.
And I'm having pizza tonight. Not matzah pizza, real pizza. Sorry to let you down, Jews.
― quincie, Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Obama and oil drilling and now this.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:23 (thirteen years ago) link
To what extent can you justify a tortilla as not-fully- of semi-leavened bread?
― ●●●●●●●● (EDB), Thursday, 1 April 2010 16:23 (thirteen years ago) link
hmmm if you are Sephardic and it is a corn tortilla, I think maybe you can get away with it? But no way if you are Askenazic.
― quincie, Thursday, 1 April 2010 17:07 (thirteen years ago) link
Ring jells are addictive. I need to moisten the matzah less on my matzah brei.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 2 April 2010 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
my matzo balls came out. . . too light and fluffy? Like they actually could do with being heavier? I suppose I could have followed a recipe, but what's the fun in that?
― quincie, Friday, 2 April 2010 16:20 (thirteen years ago) link
Each year, the Forward names the Forward 50, recognizing the most influential American Jews today. Join us for a panel discussion with recent Forward 50 honorees, including: Ruth Messinger, president of the American Jewish World Service; Dmitriy Salita, a world championship contender in boxing's junior welterweight division; and Bill Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard
I should go to this 6th & I DC synagogue panel event and harass Bill Kristol. Ugh. Ask him about both his mistakes small (his well-know factual errors in columns) and big (his role in pushing imaginary weapons of mass destruction as an argument for the Iraq war)
― curmudgeon, Monday, 5 April 2010 15:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Or maybe I can get the boxer to take care of him!
Corn and corn products are not kosher for Passover b/c corn swells when it absorbs moisture and that's considered too similar to "rising" even though it has no relation to yeast action or leavening or anything remotely addressed by the proscription against not waiting for your bread to rise.
On the other hand, the total ridiculousness of it all gives us Passover coke with real sugar.
― Ask foreigners and they will tell you the gospel comes from America. (Laurel), Monday, 5 April 2010 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
Question: is Heeb magazine always so terrible? Flipped through the Heep 100 issue and was all wtf hipsters.
― quincie, Monday, 5 April 2010 15:43 (thirteen years ago) link
why would a magazine called Heeb never be terrible?
― ●●●●●●●● (EDB), Monday, 5 April 2010 16:25 (thirteen years ago) link
Can't remember the name right now but I always liked way back when a NY fanzine about Jewish stuff and Jews in rock, penned by a gal into Unrest and Teenbeat Records and stuff. Much better than Heeb.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 5 April 2010 16:55 (thirteen years ago) link
Heeb is an abomination - Sarah Silverman's cover shot for it was funny tho
― kulinary gangsta (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 5 April 2010 17:34 (thirteen years ago) link
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Ng0R1uJ98uc2QM:http://truthpraiseandhelp.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/heeb.jpg
― kulinary gangsta (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 5 April 2010 17:35 (thirteen years ago) link
curmudgeon - Plotz?
― tokyo rosemary, Monday, 5 April 2010 23:41 (thirteen years ago) link
whole wheat matza: indistinguishable from carpet sample
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 5 April 2010 23:55 (thirteen years ago) link
x-post, yes I think it was Plotz
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 April 2010 15:07 (thirteen years ago) link
happy obscure yet still historically important holiday fellow jews!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:36 (thirteen years ago) link
Here, have some cheesecake!
― wasting time and money trying to change the weather (Laurel), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:37 (thirteen years ago) link
here's hoping cheese wins in the cheese vs. chocolate poll
― Tonight I Dine on Turtle Soup (EDB), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:50 (thirteen years ago) link
someone just reminded me its Shavuot.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
were they shaking a palm leaf at you
― Here is a tasty coconut. Sorry for my earlier harshness. (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:54 (thirteen years ago) link
no! much worse, in fact.
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:55 (thirteen years ago) link
everytime i see this thread title, i want to shout "HEY GOYS"
were they shaking a sefer torah at you?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 May 2010 20:59 (thirteen years ago) link
actually they were pressuring me to attend a bowling tournament on friday.
as they well-know:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-11870311283124/shabbos-rblue.gif
― Daniel, Esq., Tuesday, 18 May 2010 21:06 (thirteen years ago) link
On Thursday May 27th, Sire / Warner Bros. Recording artist Regina Spektor will perform at The White House for the first ever White House reception in honor of Jewish American Heritage Month.
Spektor is thrilled to join President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama to celebrate the range and depth of the Jewish American heritage and contributions to American culture.
"Having moved to America from Soviet Russia as a child with my family, we dreamed of reconnecting with our religious traditions and of making America our home" says Spektor. "Having lived here for over twenty years, it is an unimaginable honor to be invited to the White House by President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama, to an event celebrating Jewish Americans, and to be counted among them. Nothing in the world could make us feel more accepted and at home!"
The celebration will take place in The White House with guests representing the many walks of life that have helped weave the fabric of American history. Invitees include a range of community leaders and prominent Jewish Americans from Olympians and professional athletes to members of Congress, business leaders, authors and military veterans.
Jewish American Heritage Month? Never heard of it. I'm kind of meh re Regina Spektor.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:23 (thirteen years ago) link
me meh too but she is pretty cute
― |8 l) u_u (bnw), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link
jewish?
― NUDE. MAYNE. (s1ocki), Wednesday, 26 May 2010 14:48 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/nyregion/25about.html :(
― Mordy, Thursday, 26 August 2010 01:45 (thirteen years ago) link
I saw! Do you think anyone has contacted the guy who started a Yiddish library? It's in Amherst, allied with one of the colleges. He wrote that book, I think it was called Words on Fire, about trying to rescue Yiddish books all over the East Coast and have a place to put them, it was an awesome read.
It wouldn't take the place of a living bookstore but maybe their publishing program wouldn't go to waste or whatever??
― Jesus doesn't want me for a thundercloud (Laurel), Thursday, 26 August 2010 02:58 (thirteen years ago) link
There's a few Yiddish libraries in NY (at least one associated with YIVO and a famous archive in Crown Heights), so there are def places it could go. But it's a shame for the last store to close.
― Mordy, Thursday, 26 August 2010 02:59 (thirteen years ago) link
I wonder what exhibit programs the Jewish Museum has done on Yiddish works. I don't keep up w their schedule, just went to a couple of particular exhibits (the history of comics one and the Maurice Sendak one, both a few years ago).
― Jesus doesn't want me for a thundercloud (Laurel), Thursday, 26 August 2010 03:11 (thirteen years ago) link
From a press release sent to me:
On Monday, August 30th, bandleader Arturo O'Farrill will bring Mazeltov, Mis Amigos back to life at Yoshi's- an album of "Yiddish Favorites in Latin Tempo". The incredible line-up includes Larry Harlow, Wil-Dog of Ozomatli, and the Burton Sisters, performing together for the first time in 55 years. This show is ONE NIGHT ONLY!
Yoshi's in San Francisco. Harlow is Jewish
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 26 August 2010 04:51 (thirteen years ago) link
SarahPalinUSAHappy Hanukkah! Rebelling against oppressors, enduring great threats=Jewish community encourages perseverance &belief in miracles;we honor uabout 7 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
― BIG MUFFIN (gbx), Friday, 3 December 2010 20:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Awesome
― curmudgeon, Friday, 3 December 2010 20:53 (thirteen years ago) link
SarahPalinUSAU guys are alright 4 a bunch of jesus killersabout 6 hours ago via Twitter for BlackBerry®
― http://www.ilxor.com/glyloop.mp3 (Aerosol), Friday, 3 December 2010 21:02 (thirteen years ago) link
happy lebronukkah, sarahpalin
― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 3 December 2010 21:14 (thirteen years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJCSR4MuhU
― mookieproof, Saturday, 4 December 2010 15:49 (thirteen years ago) link
lol, i went to school with these guys
― Mordy, Saturday, 4 December 2010 16:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Happy Purim, Yiddin!
― Mordy, Sunday, 20 March 2011 03:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm going to wear my hamantaschen earrings tomorrow.
― tokyo rosemary, Sunday, 20 March 2011 03:40 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm suprised I havent noticed much hullaballoo around here today, usually there's some dude driving rounnd playing hip hop and rapping in hebrew.
― bad voise, it sucked, pick a seat (Trayce), Sunday, 20 March 2011 03:44 (thirteen years ago) link
I had this idea recently that we should turn Purim into a grotesque caricature of itself and make it a general American drinking holiday like St. Paddy's day. Hooligans roaming the streets with groggers, haman masks, eating hamentashen and drinking maneschevitz. Whaddya say?
― for real molars who ain't got no fillings (Hurting 2), Sunday, 20 March 2011 06:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Maybe the makers of He-brew would sponsor.
― for real molars who ain't got no fillings (Hurting 2), Sunday, 20 March 2011 06:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Am I the only one who thought this (POO- REM)thread revive was about Purim? Indeed, I was confused about the opening post.
― EDB, Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:08 (thirteen years ago) link
This is brilliant -- the Irish have St. Patrick's Day, the Italians have Columbus Day, where's ours? Then again there are lots more Irish and Italians than Jews. The Germans are a much bigger ethnic group and we should probably let them try to ramp up Oktoberfest before it's our turn.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:14 (thirteen years ago) link
I think that's what Purim is like in Israel, actually.
And no, the less holidays there are like St Patrick's day the better.
― EDB, Sunday, 27 March 2011 04:25 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.newyorkshitty.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/moses.jpg
chosen ppl are in a hurry
― mookieproof, Thursday, 7 April 2011 21:22 (twelve years ago) link
I don't know if I'd go to a seder held by "a community of artists."
― EDB, Thursday, 7 April 2011 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
Heh the hasid community round my suburb always put up humourous things like that, usually posters for plays and things with loljew joke titles. I wish I could remember one now.
― Concubine Tree (Trayce), Thursday, 7 April 2011 23:44 (twelve years ago) link
Hey Jews, time to start singing my Passover song:
― quincie, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 20:10 (twelve years ago) link
^^^all-time classic
― in my world of ugly tribadists (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 20:39 (twelve years ago) link
gonna get major play in my family seder for sure
― dblake (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 April 2011 01:32 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.aish.com/h/pes/mm/Passover_Google_Exodus.html
Telling the Passover story with Google and other computer methods...
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 14 April 2011 14:51 (twelve years ago) link
Ate two and a half sheets of matzah last night. Hard to stop once you get started.
― quincie, Thursday, 14 April 2011 15:24 (twelve years ago) link
my family doesn't start eating matzah until the holiday begins (there's a halachic restriction) but that suits me fine. the less pressure on my digestive system the better.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 April 2011 15:56 (twelve years ago) link
curmudgeon that was p corny but i laughed
'egypt.gov' and pharoah having an iphone = lol
― goole, Thursday, 14 April 2011 16:56 (twelve years ago) link
I didn't know there was a halachic restriction! Do tell!!!
― quincie, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:12 (twelve years ago) link
That's pretty much it. Some ppl don't eat shmura matzah in the month preceding Passover (prob to make sure it stays special) tho they'll still eat egg matzah
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:25 (twelve years ago) link
Well I figured I was one of the few people who would choose to eat matzah outside of passover, anyway. Shmura is the special kind where the wheat was guarded from harvest to oven, yes?
― quincie, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:35 (twelve years ago) link
My sister, who is celebrating her birthday next week, will be in town. I'm so reluctant to cook a nasty passover-friendly cake, but struggling for an edible, credible alternative.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:41 (twelve years ago) link
I had a wonderful flourless chocolate torte made with ground hazelnuts a while ago--it was delicious and the total opposite of the usual nasty passover sponge cake. I will see if I can track down the recipe!
― quincie, Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:45 (twelve years ago) link
my wife makes this matzah toffee desert, let me see if I can find the recipe. it is, how you say, "like crack"
― in my world of ugly tribadists (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 14 April 2011 18:55 (twelve years ago) link
http://noblepig.com/2009/04/03/whats-a-matzo-you.aspx
Oh, we're all about the matzoh toffee! Basically the one Passover item I must insist we make only at Passover, for positive reasons!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 April 2011 19:09 (twelve years ago) link
That stuff is sooooooooo good and impossible to stop eating until one is ILL.
― quincie, Thursday, 14 April 2011 19:21 (twelve years ago) link
Starts tonight
― curmudgeon, Monday, 18 April 2011 14:11 (twelve years ago) link
I'm not even pretending I'm going to keep kosher. Maybe I'll just avoid shrimp for a week.
I did not score a seder invite this year! Of course, I did not try very hard. I'm just back from Israel; I think that should fulfill my good fake jew requirement for the year.
― quincie, Monday, 18 April 2011 16:59 (twelve years ago) link
had our (abbreviated, heavily toddler-centric) seder yesterday. quincie yr song went over well lol
― All this information makes America phat (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 18 April 2011 17:02 (twelve years ago) link
toddlers love songs that involve constipation! Glad it was a hit.
― quincie, Monday, 18 April 2011 17:23 (twelve years ago) link
Holocaust Rememberance Day started last night. In Israel the timing of that and the killing of Bin Laden certainly got attention.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 2 May 2011 21:59 (twelve years ago) link
I'm proud of my religion - I don't go to temple much but at my cousin's bat mitzvah I definitely took pride in the fact that we actually have women rabbis
― frogbs, Monday, 2 May 2011 22:02 (twelve years ago) link
hey jews: HAPPY SHVUOT.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 20:46 (twelve years ago) link
http://media.1001.com/postcards/pix/0608/060800a.gif
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 20:47 (twelve years ago) link
woot
― S'cool bro, I only cried a little (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 20:50 (twelve years ago) link
I forgot the meaning of this holiday and did not remember that it is celebrated by some with eating certain food using dairy
So the Torah was revealed on Mt Sinai and we celebrate 50 days after Passover by eating (if Wiki is to be believed):
Dairy foods such as cheesecake, cheese blintzes,[8] and cheese kreplach among Ashkenazi Jews;[9] cheese sambusak,[10] kelsonnes (cheese ravioli),[11] and atayef (a cheese-filled pancake)[12] among Syrian Jews; kahee (a dough that is buttered and sugared) among Iraqi Jews;[12] and a seven-layer cake called siete cielos (seven heavens) among Tunisian and Moroccan Jews[12][13] are traditionally served on Shavuot. Yemenite Jews do not eat dairy foods on Shavuot.[12]
In keeping with the observance of other Yom Tovs, there is both a night meal and a day meal on Shavuot. Meat is usually served at night and dairy is served either for the day meal[9] or for a morning kiddush.[14]
Among the explanations given in rabbinic literature for the consumption of dairy foods on this holiday are:[15][16]
Before they received the Torah, the Israelites were not obligated to follow its laws, which include shechita (ritual slaughter of animals) and kashrut. Since all their meat pots and dishes now had to be made kosher before use, they opted to eat dairy foods. The Torah is compared to milk by King Solomon, who wrote: "Like honey and milk, it lies under your tongue" (Song of Songs 4:11).
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:04 (twelve years ago) link
cheesecake! i plan to eat a lot.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:39 (twelve years ago) link
also, observant jews stay up all night learning. i will not be observing that particular custom.
lol mordy i didn't actually know it was shavuot when i asked u about it
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:45 (twelve years ago) link
this was in response to iphone translating a random string into 'cushitic shavuot' fwiw
― http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WhiteAmericanFolks.jpg (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:48 (twelve years ago) link
lol
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
In honor of this Yom Tov, I'm a gonna go eat some cheesy pizza. May or may not include pepperoni/sausage to defile the Yom Tov.
― quincie, Tuesday, 7 June 2011 23:50 (twelve years ago) link
hey jews, easy fast (if you're fasting)!
― Mordy, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 01:35 (twelve years ago) link
Fast of Tishah B'Av Mourning the destruction of the Temple and the exile of Israel,
I've never fasted on this day. Is this more an orthodox thing or do some conservative and reconstructionist and reform Jews follow this as well?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 15:22 (twelve years ago) link
Oh shit I never remember the "minor" fast days.
Mordy, you always give great jew commentary--hope you will post some Tishah B'Av info for the undereducated and jew-wannabes.
Hey jews I'm gonna take yet another class in the fall, this time with a chick Reconstructionist rabbi!
― quincie, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 15:26 (twelve years ago) link
it's not just an orthodox thing and is the second biggest fast of the year -- tho of course it's still no Yom Kippur which is considered midoraisa (having the weight of a biblical law) and tisha b'av is midirabbanin (having the weight of a rabbinic dictum). it commemorates the destruction of the second temple (done by the Romans) and consequently the end of the Kingdom of Judea and beginning of the galut (exile).
interesting factoid: the myth narrative about how the destruction started is that there were these two dudes named kamtza and bar kamtza. this guy was throwing a party and loved kamtza but hated bar kamtza, so he told his servant to invite kamtza but wouldn't you know it, he invited bar kamtza. when the host saw bar kamtza he was like, "wtf? go," and bk was like, "no dude, don't embarrass me. i thought you invited me to make peace." host: "i don't care go" bk: "i'll pay for my meal." host: "no way." bk: "i'll pay for half the cost of the whole party!" host: "no way." bk: "i'll pay for the entire party!" host: "gtfo." so he leaves and is all butthurt about the whole thing and is like, "the rabbis watched the whole thing and didn't stop him from throwing me out so fuck them." so he went to Caesar and said, "the Israelites have rebelled against you. send them a sacrifice for the Temple and see what they do." so Caesar sent a ram and when no one was looking bar kamtza mutilated the ram's eye (which would make it unfit for sacrifice) and so the Jews refused to sacrifice it and the Caesar decided they were rebelling and needed to be put down and then the Romans invaded Israel which led to the events of tisha b'av.
other interesting factoid: jewish tradition has it that tons of bad stuff happened on tisha b'av, not just the destruction of the temple. such as: the spies coming back from israel in the bible and saying it'll be impossible to conquer, destruction of the first temple by the babylonians, bar kochba's revolution being put down, the first crusade being declared, expulsion of jews from england, expulsion of jews from iberian peninsula during inquisition, deportations from warsaw ghetto, the bombing of jewish community center in buenos aires
― Mordy, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 15:38 (twelve years ago) link
Thanks, Mordy! I had heard the bad party host story (midrash?) before, but outside the context of Tishah B'Av. The story is even better with "gtfo" included!
I have slacked off on my studies and am realizing that I feel better (in multiple areas) when I'm actively engaged faux/minimally observant of some stuff like Shabbat. Really need to do Yom Kippur services this year--I skipped last year and regretted it.
― quincie, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 15:47 (twelve years ago) link
Trying to explain The Three Weeks and Tisha B'av to my coworkers always makes me a little cranky.
It comes up every year because there are a few customers who mention they can't buy anything for three weeks, and everyone at work thinks that's the weirdest thing ever.
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 9 August 2011 23:21 (twelve years ago) link
jewish tradition has it that tons of bad stuff happened on tisha b'av
what's the modern, liberalized, historically skeptical take on it as 'the saddest day in jewish history'? it's kind of weird that there would be one day like that—especially the destructions of the first and second temples so far apart—but i wonder how easy it would be to find significant date-recurrences throughout history that are associated with various groups. (like, i dunno, recurring terrorist bombings? recurring catholic miracles?)
― j., Wednesday, 10 August 2011 00:53 (twelve years ago) link
i guess the caveat would be confirmation bias
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 00:55 (twelve years ago) link
well that's disappointing. can't it be, like, more than that, but less than… something else?
― j., Wednesday, 10 August 2011 00:59 (twelve years ago) link
lol- I think those are the only two options
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 01:20 (twelve years ago) link
i had no idea that we fasted today
― J0rdan S., Wednesday, 10 August 2011 01:22 (twelve years ago) link
good luck with fasting, those of you that are. I don't do it anymore
― Patrice Leclerc Delacroix Poussin (admrl), Wednesday, 10 August 2011 01:29 (twelve years ago) link
well, it's all over now
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 August 2011 01:52 (twelve years ago) link
MORDY, YOU ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED ON THE Waaaait, whut? Slowly reading and liveblogging the Bible! THREAD
Also, Hey Jews! What's shaking for the High Holy Days?
― quincie, Thursday, 22 September 2011 21:51 (twelve years ago) link
what's poppin'
shana tovah yo
― I saw Mike Love walk by a computer once (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 22 September 2011 22:40 (twelve years ago) link
Damn, those look excellent! I could eat about a dozen after fasting for Yom Kippur :(
― quincie, Thursday, 22 September 2011 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/rosh-hashanah-foods-beyond-apples-and-honey/2011/09/15/gIQANyajiK_story.html
― curmudgeon, Friday, 23 September 2011 18:01 (twelve years ago) link
u know what's delicious? my wife makes this challah full of apple bits around rosh hashana time that is incredibly good.
― Mordy, Friday, 23 September 2011 18:02 (twelve years ago) link
I would eat all these rosh hashana foods, except maybe the gefilte fish.
― quincie, Friday, 23 September 2011 19:29 (twelve years ago) link
oh man i love gefilte fish esp w/ this slathered all on top
http://www.alescifoods.com/images/prod/co206L.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 23 September 2011 19:30 (twelve years ago) link
gross. why people would let stinky fish in their bath tubs to make the worst food in the world is beyond me.
― very public (bnw), Friday, 23 September 2011 20:42 (twelve years ago) link
Cause it's freaking delicious.
First high holiday away from home...
I'm not religious enough to want to seek out an ersatz rosh hashana dinner, and my meals are taken care of for me, so there's no incentive to squeeze a free meal out of strangers. I'd join the family table over skype, but I'd have to do it at, like, 1 AM. What do I do!?!?
― Pee Wee Hermeneutician (EDB), Friday, 23 September 2011 21:08 (twelve years ago) link
What can a secular "cultural" Jew do to have fun on Rosh Hashanah? In los angeles
― no more racist than the Duke boys driving around in the General Lee (admrl), Friday, 23 September 2011 21:11 (twelve years ago) link
maybe go to Canter's
where are u, EDB? maybe hit up a chabad house -- sometimes cool ppl hang out at them
― Mordy, Friday, 23 September 2011 21:12 (twelve years ago) link
I have tickets for services, though I'm not planning on doing the Day 2s. No one has invited me dinner/break fast though, MAYBE BECAUSE I'M NOT EVEN JEWISH OMG.
― quincie, Saturday, 24 September 2011 14:29 (twelve years ago) link
Along the lines of "uh I'm not even Jewish," I'd really like to go to the mikveh before my upcoming marriage, but I wouldn't want to defile the thing with my goyness. Do they ask for some sort of proof of Jewishness, I wonder?
― quincie, Saturday, 24 September 2011 14:31 (twelve years ago) link
afaik you can't defile a mikvah. have fun!
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 September 2011 14:35 (twelve years ago) link
I will Ask A Rabbi but I'm afraid she will tell me to gtfo. Also the mikveh at the Ask A Rabbi's 'gogue has, like, zero atmosphere; it feels like you should be doing some sort of physical therapy in it.
― quincie, Saturday, 24 September 2011 14:39 (twelve years ago) link
Maybe I should start reviewing area mikvehs on Yelp.
why don't u try http://www.askmoses.com/ which has the benefit of being anonymous when u ask
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 September 2011 14:40 (twelve years ago) link
Why don't you just convert? I sort of assumed you already had!
― Octavia Butler's gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiised (Laurel), Saturday, 24 September 2011 15:04 (twelve years ago) link
Nah, I'm not there yet. May never get there, I dunno. I mean I *tried* to marry a Jew, at least! Not my fault that the goyim have taken over J Date!
― quincie, Saturday, 24 September 2011 15:06 (twelve years ago) link
i don't know how serious u are about converting, but if you want to discuss it w/ me i'm happy to give u some insight into your options
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 September 2011 15:12 (twelve years ago) link
I would like that, Mordy! You are an A+ jew and I value your opinion and your jew learnin'!
― quincie, Saturday, 24 September 2011 15:13 (twelve years ago) link
Hey Jews, Are we warming up for the big one?
― uhhhhhh (admrl), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:34 (twelve years ago) link
I meant Hey Janitors, sorry
― uhhhhhh (admrl), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:36 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah this may be a good time to start goin to the gym again
― frogbs, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:37 (twelve years ago) link
I scored a break fast invite, but still no Rosh Hashana invite :(
Gonna eat apples and honey with just my (non-Jew) honey, I guess.
― quincie, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:39 (twelve years ago) link
yeah most of my Jew family is in Ohio so I'm pretty much gonna be aloneYom Kippur also comin up isnt it?
― frogbs, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:41 (twelve years ago) link
come to me for meals in philly! xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:41 (twelve years ago) link
rosh hashana fap
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
I had an apple
― iatee, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
I would love to celebrate the high holy days in Philly, I never been there
― uhhhhhh (admrl), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
So it starts...tomorrow?
― uhhhhhh (admrl), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
any yehudilxors that ever need a place to stay / place for meals for jewish holidays in philly can always come to me. open door policy
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
tmmrw nite xp
oh shit I thought today was Wednesday
now I have to buy another apple
― iatee, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
it starts at night anyway
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:45 (twelve years ago) link
Mordy that is a very awesome offer for which many mitzvot points shall be scored! I hope to take you up on it some time.
Yom Kippur on Shabbat this year means extra extra extra long service, huh.
― quincie, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:51 (twelve years ago) link
Probably not exceptionally longer than the normal service. When I was in Yeshiva Yom Kippur service lasted from 9 in the morning until the fast ended that night so it didn't matter whether it was a Yom Kippur Shabbos or weekend Yom Kippur, cause there was no more space to fill. (It was horrific.) Very cool tho, cause generally fasts on Shabbos get pushed off until later since it's not right to fast on Shabbos -- but Yom Kippur is the one that takes precedence. One of the rare opportunities where it's okay not to eat on Shabbos.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 16:54 (twelve years ago) link
This is the start of what is doubtless the most significant year of my life, so here's hoping for a good 5772 all around, for everyone.
― Hills Like White Broncos (EDB), Tuesday, 27 September 2011 18:21 (twelve years ago) link
EDB I am intrigued! Shana tova, everyone.
All of my jew study books are still packed or else I'd give myself a little RH refresher. Instead I'll use this thread to solicit interesting RH tidbits! (ahem MORDY TO THREAD again)
― quincie, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:00 (twelve years ago) link
RH tidbit: My parents bought these two giant fish heads (bc fish traditionally symbolize Torah and prolificacy in Judaism & heads symbolize the head of the New Year) and then emptied them out and stuffed them with gefilte fish.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:05 (twelve years ago) link
I have decided that I am neutral on gefilte fish. I'm OK with eating some, but I don't actively seek it out or anything.
Do your parents have cats? Fish heads sound like kitty crack.
― quincie, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:10 (twelve years ago) link
There are three cats currently living in the house.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:18 (twelve years ago) link
Hey, Mordy, speaking of house pets, can you explain to me the tendency toward a dislike of dogs? A few years back, a friend & I were trying to get an apartment in a heavily u-O neighborhood and since I was referred by a religious person all the families were very supportive, until they heard that my roommate-to-be had a small dog, at which point all of them hastily backed out of the phone calls and practically hung up on me.
I asked my reference and she kind of glossed over it, so I know she doesn't hold with that idea, but obv enough people do that it's a thing?
― Octavia Butler's gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiised (Laurel), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:26 (twelve years ago) link
It's generally a very religious thing (like more modern orthodox families will own dogs). I've heard a number of reasons for it.1. The Talmud has serious problems with dogs. There are a number of mitzvot and things (like prayer) that you're not allowed to perform if a dog is in the room bc they're considered dirty.2. I think dogs are historically considered as security/attack animals and there isn't really a tradition of owning them as pets which also leads to...3. There's a kind of communal memory of dogs being used to attack Jews "in the old country" or during the Shoah. I've heard this third answer a bunch.
Two more dog things I can think of that may or may not shed light on the question:
A. During the Exodus narrative the Torah says that there was a miracle and while the Jews were leaving Egypt none of the dogs barked.B. When talking about unkosher food the Talmud says that treifas (unkosher meat) should be fed to the dogs. (There's actually a Jewish joke based on this premise.)
So I don't know for sure, but this is what I've got.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:35 (twelve years ago) link
a lot of religious muslims dislike dogs--iirc muhammad is said to have hated dogs, and i think mostly theyre thought to be unclean--so i wonder if theres a general semitic thing about them
― max, Wednesday, 28 September 2011 14:44 (twelve years ago) link
tonight we're gonna party like it's 5999
― ice cr?mde (symsymsym), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 16:11 (twelve years ago) link
(is what I say to my family every rosh hashanah)
― ice cr?mde (symsymsym), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 16:12 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_M5-qthA8w
― ice cr?mde (symsymsym), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 16:16 (twelve years ago) link
Watching that is making me so embarrassed for those people that my skin is burning and prickling like pins.
― Octavia Butler's gonna be piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiised (Laurel), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 16:20 (twelve years ago) link
I'm sort of thinking about going a checking out a synagogue or something tonight/tomorrow, just because. It would be my first time in 10 years+
― uhhhhhh (admrl), Wednesday, 28 September 2011 19:49 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZLq_JB8H44
― tokyo rosemary, Thursday, 29 September 2011 03:12 (twelve years ago) link
^^^highlight of the holiday thus far!
Happy 5772, Jews!
― quincie, Thursday, 29 September 2011 18:56 (twelve years ago) link
EDB I am intrigued!
Essentially I moved overseas to start grad school in London.
Tonight I did have something that resembled a festive meal, and even marked the start of a new year. It was totally secular though.
― Hills Like White Broncos (EDB), Thursday, 29 September 2011 22:21 (twelve years ago) link
Was just reading about the origin of the Jewish epoch, that is, the starting point - year zero, creation or whatever - of the 5772. I guess in the middle ages a bunch of rabbis simply added up the collective ages of each generational patriarch or whatever in a book of the Torah until they got back to Adam, or some such totally sound scientific method. The common rabbinical line is that years back then were longer than we know them now, which is convenient.
I did get looking at the origins of various other epochs. The Chinese calendar goes back 4700 years or something, and was started more or less arbitrarily by some emperor or something. The Muslim calendar only goes back 1400 years or so, obviously well after the advent of Islam but I believe linked to a famous speech by Muhammed or something like that. But then I got to thinking: why does the Christian calendar start with the birth of Jesus, when obviously time extends back beyond his birth?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 22:39 (twelve years ago) link
It … doesn't?
― Woolen Scjarfs (Phil D.), Thursday, 29 September 2011 22:45 (twelve years ago) link
But even religious Christians don't believe the world began with Jesus.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
muslim calendar starts with the hejira, which is joni mitchells last great album. marking the calendar by the hejira represents muslims belief that joni will return and drop something even more bitching than court & spark.
― max, Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
I mean, there's that whole BC/AD thing for a reason. It acknowledges explicitly that time existed before Jesus.
― Woolen Scjarfs (Phil D.), Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:14 (twelve years ago) link
I guess in the middle ages a bunch of rabbis simply added up the collective ages of each generational patriarch or whatever in a book of the Torah until they got back to Adam, or some such totally sound scientific method.
this is ref'd on the "a ho hoy liveblogs the Bible" thread and is also the reason creationists insist the earth is 6000 years old btw
― unorthodox economic revenge (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
otm
xxp about joni + muslims
― horseshoe, Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:17 (twelve years ago) link
i made some fried chicken for tonights rosh hashana potluck
― max, Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
The usage of BC apparently does not show up until somewhere between 1400 and 1600 or so.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 September 2011 23:32 (twelve years ago) link
My Hebrew School teachers used to say: BCE, Before the Common Era
have an easy fast folks
― curmudgeon, Friday, 7 October 2011 18:34 (twelve years ago) link
All mankind will pass before You like a flock of sheep. Like a shepherd pasturing his flock, making sheep pass under his staff, so shall You cause to pass, count, calculate, and consider the soul of all the living; and You shall apportion the destinies of all Your creatures and inscribe their verdict.
On Rosh Hashanah will be inscribed and on Yom Kippur will be sealed how many will pass from the earth and how many will be created; who will live and who will die; who will die at his predestined time and who before his time; who by water and who by fire, who by sword, who by beast, who by famine, who by thirst, who by upheaval, who by plague, who by strangling, and who by stoning. Who will rest and who will wander, who will live in harmony and who will be harried, who will enjoy tranquility and who will suffer, who will be impoverished and who will be enriched, who will be degraded and who will be exalted. But Repentance, Prayer, and Charity avert the severe Decree!
― Mordy, Friday, 7 October 2011 18:57 (twelve years ago) link
easy fast, all!
― quincie, Friday, 7 October 2011 19:50 (twelve years ago) link
I've long been curious/suspicious of wishing people an "easy fast." Isn't it not supposed to be easy? Isn't that besides the point, insofar as it being easy is contra the notion of/reason for fasting in the first place, as if atonement could ever come from things being easy? (which I've always understood to be a form of ascesis that promotes self reflection) I think wishing people a meaningful fast makes much more sense.
― Hills Like White Broncos (EDB), Saturday, 8 October 2011 07:54 (twelve years ago) link
NY Times
But the protests have also, on occasion, had a distinctly Jewish flavor: The encampment has coincided with the busy Jewish holiday season and has witnessed, in its midst or on its edges, a crowded Kol Nidre service on Yom Kippur, festive dancing with a scroll on Simchat Torah on Thursday night, and the sukkah.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:16 (twelve years ago) link
Yeah, I wrote about Yom Kippur + Sukkot at Occupy Philly for the Jewish Exponent - it has really pissed off rabid rightwingers who are committed to proving that the protests are actually anti-Semitic. puts a crimp in your style when your anti-semitic protests include traditional Jewish rituals + services.
― Mordy, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:19 (twelve years ago) link
why do some people think that the protests are anti-semitic?
― The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:47 (twelve years ago) link
Capitalism is a Jewish stronghold, whilst banking throughout the world and throughout history has always had a high Jewish involvement.
The world of high finance is a Jewish world. War and revolution is interwoven with International Jewish Finance. These purveyors of disturbance have no political affiliations. National loyalty (if it exists for them ) is subordinated to the business of international finance.
Some of the main Jewish Banking Houses are :
Rothschilds
August Belmont & Co.
J. & W. Seligman & Co.
Kuhn Loeb & Co. (Warburg)
Lehman Brothers
Goldman, Sachs & Co.
― conrad, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:49 (twelve years ago) link
The neon-cons and others saw a few signs and decided to pounce on the issue in an effort to discredit the movement.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:55 (twelve years ago) link
^ this pretty much
― Mordy, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:55 (twelve years ago) link
bright fellows those neon-cons
― Once Were Moderators (DG), Monday, 24 October 2011 14:56 (twelve years ago) link
neo-cons and bloggers including rightwing W. Post columnist Rubin, plus they got Rush and others to sign up on this meme
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 October 2011 14:57 (twelve years ago) link
I'm trying to work out whether Conrad is outlining the opinions of anti-semites or BEING ONE HIMSELF.
But yeah, since the financial crisis started I have been wondering whether there was any prospect of rumblings against fat cat bankers turning into crypto racist rumblings against rootless cosmopolitans.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 24 October 2011 15:18 (twelve years ago) link
I'll never tell
― conrad, Monday, 24 October 2011 15:24 (twelve years ago) link
copied and pasted from the internet
plenty on the internet too about money changers
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 October 2011 15:27 (twelve years ago) link
I am sometimes amazed that there is still anti-semitism in the first world... not out of a feeling that people have become more sensible, more that it now seems so old fashioned, when there are so many other minority groups for racist nutters to obsess about.
― The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 24 October 2011 16:40 (twelve years ago) link
ime there's some truth in that (in the uk at least) except amongst the 'anti-zionist' crowd of course who are generally a terrible bunch of cunts
― Once Were Moderators (DG), Monday, 24 October 2011 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
http://joshreads.com/images/11/11/i111117dt.gif
― Mordy, Thursday, 17 November 2011 17:00 (twelve years ago) link
happy purim!
― Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 02:51 (twelve years ago) link
I wore my hamantaschen earrings today.
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, 9 March 2012 04:25 (twelve years ago) link
i dressed my daughter as a ladybug!
― Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 04:28 (twelve years ago) link
Cute!
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, 9 March 2012 04:33 (twelve years ago) link
some serious costume action on my street today. hasidic kids are so awesome. adorbs.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 9 March 2012 05:00 (twelve years ago) link
there was like a bunch of 13-something boys on a stoop wearing cowboy hats and smoking cigars and talking traaaaash
guy in my (like 60% Jewish) office brought in some meh hamentashen today. Non-Jewish secretary got really excited about them and I felt like sort of a douche for telling her that they weren't that good and that there are much better hamentashen out there. They were the kind made out of that really mealy fake cookie shit!
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 March 2012 06:44 (twelve years ago) link
I mean you know, it's not actually fake cookie, it's just very mealy and dry cookie
Just looked at the newspaper's photo gallery of the kids in costume in the local Hasidic village.
I think there's an Easter Bunny.
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, 9 March 2012 13:15 (twelve years ago) link
My Giant grocery store was sold out of hamentashen. Ended up getting some from Trader Joe's. Not as good as my Mom's home-made ones
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 March 2012 13:56 (twelve years ago) link
my wife makes the best hamentashen but i'm trying to be less of a stuff-my-mouth with unhealthy food slob these days so i only ate two over the entire chag. :( generally i'd eat 30-40 of them...
― Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 13:57 (twelve years ago) link
I ate a bunch of hamantaschen earlier in the week, and tonight I guess I should drink a lot!
Happy Purim, ilxjewsors!
― quincie, Friday, 9 March 2012 15:03 (twelve years ago) link
Poppy seed, yay or nay? As a kid getting one of these always felt like being pranked with a "fake" hamentashen.
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 March 2012 15:06 (twelve years ago) link
Mordy is your daughter's name Esther?
― You're welcome child. It was just another day being your God (crüt), Friday, 9 March 2012 15:07 (twelve years ago) link
That's actually her middle name!
― Mordy, Friday, 9 March 2012 15:09 (twelve years ago) link
esther was our second choice middle name for our daughter
― simulation and similac (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 March 2012 15:17 (twelve years ago) link
Poppy seed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prune.
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, 9 March 2012 16:14 (twelve years ago) link
Once in college we made one with a marshmallow Peep filling.
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, 9 March 2012 16:15 (twelve years ago) link
Awww I like prune! Peep filling is a great jew-christian combo.
― quincie, Friday, 9 March 2012 18:18 (twelve years ago) link
― tokyo rosemary, Friday, March 9, 2012 11:15 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Wow, that's traif on so many levels
― the prurient pinterest (Hurting 2), Friday, 9 March 2012 19:53 (twelve years ago) link
from fb just now
http://i39.tinypic.com/zskdv.png
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 March 2012 19:47 (twelve years ago) link
HEY JEWS
It is almost time. . .
― quincie, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 22:29 (eleven years ago) link
Only a non-Jew could plan this for a Seder, but hey . . .
One of our favorite traditions at Dino is serving our traditional Passover meal in honor of my mother: Ella Gold. For many years, a huge seder was a part of growing up and helping my mom prepare it was one of my best memories.
Our Passover Dinner served Friday April 6 thru Friday April 13, 2012We will open at 5:00pm Friday April 6 and Saturday April 7 in order that you can finish your meal by sunset {7:37pm} for those going to services. If you would like to conduct your own Seder, please bring your own Haggaddah. In any case, please plan on enjoying your meal in 2-1/4 hours in order that others can celebrate theirs holiday.
The Menu
Antipasti Per Pesachserved family style...
A Seder Plate is available the first two nights by request
Haroset, matzo & horseradish
Dean's "Better than Ella’s" chopped chicken liver
"Jack’s Fish Market" gefilte fish
Spring Saladsan assortment of local greens & spring veggies
Primo Piatto...
Dean’s “Better than Ella’s” matzo ball chicken soup
Secondo Piatto...entrees served family style...
Agnello con Aglio Verdelamb cooked in red wine with green garlic
Petto di Pollochicken breast with lemon, mushrooms & marsala
Today's Fish al Mosaicaa sauce of tomato, garlic, parsley, spices in the Jewish tradition of Livorno
Entrees served with...
matzoh farfelspring green veggiestzimmes
Dolce: Passover Cake, Chocolate Walnut Torta or Sorbetti {or another selection from our dolce menu ~ we won't tell!}
― quincie, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:05 (eleven years ago) link
I did, in fact, request a Seder Plate, though wtf I will do with it is ???
All of my Jew Study Books (including Haggaddah) is still packed from our July 2011 move :(
― quincie, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
i was thinking about buying the new jonathan safron foer haggadah but then i was like, "eh."
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:08 (eleven years ago) link
He was just here (in DC) on a haggaddah book tour, but I did not go out of my way to attend. His mom is a director at an uber-outreach 'gogue in town (6th and I). That's where I took my first Jew class!
Mordy, I was just reading over this thread and thinking you'd be the best rabbi ever.
― quincie, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:14 (eleven years ago) link
invited to a seder this friday with a family of Israeli jewelry dealers
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
Good opportunity to sell some gold?
― quincie, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
xxp thanks, that's really sweet to hear :) (and much nicer to hear from you than from my parents)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:38 (eleven years ago) link
we're gonna go cuz their daughter is buddies with my daughter but honestly have no idea what kind of situation I'm walking into
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 3 April 2012 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
I have had this thread bookmarked since it started and secretly lurking for 2 years, finally worked up the courage to say:
Hi Jews I love you all <3
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:07 (eleven years ago) link
Jews rule.
― quincie, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:08 (eleven years ago) link
Oh wait should be on is this antisemitism thread
― quincie, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:09 (eleven years ago) link
also quincie I will cosign yr Mordy Would Make the Best Rabbi statement.
how do we make this happen?
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:10 (eleven years ago) link
since it's passover, and i don't think i've ever told this story on ilx, this is the craziest passover chumra (aka stringency) i've ever heard. i had a rabbi in yeshiva whose custom it was to draw water into all his bathtubs and storage containers before the holiday and only use water to cook + drink from that supply. why didn't he use a sink during passover? because there's a (somewhat obscure) law about kashrut. what do you do if you drop something trief into something kosher? it depends on the item, but there's a concept called batul (nullification). most items are nullified if they're less than 1 in 60 (and some if they make up less than the majority). but bread on passover is not nullified no matter what the ratio. so he draws all the water before passover, when bread is still nullified by being 1 in 60, because if he drew water on passover, and there was even a microscopic crumb in it, it wouldn't be nullified and he would be eating bread on passover.
nb, this is totally crazy and even very religious ppl like my parents + my rabbi, etc, all think it's OTT
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
Interesting, Mordy. Your post led me to this Q&A on the "Mystic Sixty": http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/195/Q3/
The Talmud and Midrash state: "Fire is 1/60 of hell, honey is 1/60 of the manna, Shabbat is 1/60 of the World to Come, sleep is 1/60 of death, and dreams are 1/60 of prophecy. Dreams are the buds of prophecy."
On another note, I'm a little stressed b/c I haven't done my Seder food shopping (never mind cooking) yet!
Argh last minute Seder meal planning.
― collardio gelatinous, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:48 (eleven years ago) link
lol, so funny you posted that. i was inspired by the comedy poll thread to tell a friend tnite that watching movies is 1/60 of death (referencing that quote)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
haha so many applications come to mind.
― collardio gelatinous, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
― You big bully, why are you hitting that little bully? (Shakey Mo Collier),
Hopefully just a nice seder
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 4 April 2012 13:50 (eleven years ago) link
mordy that story is so crazy but also kind of awesome
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
I love Jews. prob said so before but if i wasn't a bulletproof atheist and armchair Buddhist I would convert. also lazy and it takes a long time
― catbus otm (gbx), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
I love us too. I love the way we know how to hold a grudge
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZzZu8nLUNI
― We Need To Talk About Trayvon (admrl), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ this.
Per usual, I forgot how soon it was until it was nearly upon me. And I'm still holding myself to my four-year tradition of hosting a seder chez moi instead of just spending one night with each side of the family.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Wednesday, 4 April 2012 17:16 (eleven years ago) link
All that and finals and term papers.
Good luck with that Alex! It's okay to get some of them store-bought macaroons, really.
Well I've got my shopping list ready at least now.
I've decided that the real miracle of Passover is how many freaking matzo balls you can make out of like a thimbleful of matzo meal. It's insane and downright spooky. Probably has something to do with that whole 1/60 ratio thing Mordy brought up ...
― collardio gelatinous, Thursday, 5 April 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
I was just reading about the chametz thing. I wonder if walking round my neighbourhood tonight ppl will try and offload free bread on me, ha.
― fix it with like some music glue (Trayce), Thursday, 5 April 2012 06:13 (eleven years ago) link
See gbx I also considered myself a bulletproof atheist until I learned that I could embrace Spinoza/Kaplan/Reconstructionist Judaism with nary a change to my non-embrace of what my ex-Catholic husband refers to as "sky faries" and my hairdresser calls "Space God." These guys basically re-defined divinity in way that makes sense to me.
― quincie, Thursday, 5 April 2012 11:40 (eleven years ago) link
Actually I would like Rabbi Mordy's thoughts on Spinoza/Kaplan/Reconstructionism. Very much.
― quincie, Thursday, 5 April 2012 11:42 (eleven years ago) link
I suppose I should at least familiarize myself with Spinoza, he seems to come up all the time
― catbus otm (gbx), Thursday, 5 April 2012 12:48 (eleven years ago) link
― quincie, Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:16 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― quincie, Friday, 6 April 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^
― Disco Bob & MC Criminal (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
― quincie, Thursday, April 5, 2012 7:40 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Well, except that I started off with parents raised orthodox-ish who then went secular, went back to an orthodox shul when they had kids and then left for a reform one because they couldn't answer the 'why can't i sit with mum' question i posed at 5. And then I proceeded to keep going to an orthodox-ish after-school hebrew school, be more religious than most of my immediate family, seriously considered going to (reform) rabbinical school for a good six years and then realized that calling or no calling, no matter how well my personal theology makes sense in my head, being a queer rabbi who thinks the human search for/concept of the divine is more important that the question/fact of G-d's existence and (at least compared to institutional Judaism in North America) is pretty outside the norm on Israel issues probably wouldn't really work out too well. But a lot Jewish ritual and theology are too meaningful to me personally to be to just abandon - and not in a cultural Jew Woody Allen and bagels way - like in a....tallis and fasting and prayer way...
'religious Jewish not-quite-atheist' doesn't really make sense, so i tend to go with under-constructionist.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
But yeah - Spinoza/Kaplan/Reconstructionism are intriguing to me a lot of the time.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
Overheard from a haggard mom shopping for last-minute Passover supplies at the local supermarket: "This would be soooo much easier if we were in New York."
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 6 April 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
I hear her! By the time I went down to my neighbour kosher supermarket to get some maror the only ones left were smaller then my forearm.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
I can't find shitty Manischewitz!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 6 April 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
Me neither. :(
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
At the second Giant I went I found stuff. Heard a story on PRI radio about how Israeli matzah, supposedly made by employees getting paid at a lower rate, is being marketed heavily in the US. But at the Giant grocery store I went to, the Streit's US made matzah was cheaper. Now they have whole wheat and organic.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
Matzah ball mix refridgerating for an hour, soup cooling so I can skim the schmaltz, chicken strained from soup to remove bones, etc., roast on hour 3 of slow-cooking. Might actually pull off the Pesach-in-one-day adventure.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:20 (eleven years ago) link
Oh shit I have no matzah. Will pick some up on the booze run en route home.
WaPo had an article about Passover retreats today; apparently they are gaining in popularity for folks who want all of the kosher-for-pesach and none of the work.
― quincie, Friday, 6 April 2012 18:34 (eleven years ago) link
We're taking Hiltons full of orthodox jews here.
Wow. That's intense.
Am I a failure if, unlike my mother, I am incapable of cutting maror into immaculate sticks of white horseradish of identical length and width?
They just don't look *pretty*.
― Somewhere between Fergie and Jesus (Alex in Montreal), Friday, 6 April 2012 18:56 (eleven years ago) link
love that ditty quincie
― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, 6 April 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/passover-retreats-are-designed-to-tempt-the-busy-modern-jewish-family/2012/04/05/gIQA5OMTyS_story.html
here's an excerpt:
Dozens of hotels, from the French Riviera to the Florida coast to Pennsylvania’s Amish Country, are being temporarily transformed into Passover getaways by armies of kosher experts.
Cruise ship nightclubs and hotel conference rooms have been converted into seder spaces. Rabbis have blessed special boundary markers, usually meant for Orthodox neighborhoods, around resorts.
The retreats, most of which have appeared over the past 15 years or so, lure people with golf, religious singers and mentalists, along with lectures on Israel and parenting. One retreat in Connecticut is staffed by five matchmakers for parents seeking a nice Orthodox mate for their child. At the same time, Passover retreats are also cropping up among less observant Jews who are motivated not by kosher rules — which they likely don’t follow — but by a desire to kick-start their faith and rituals.
For Lehman, 66, the decision to ditch the conventional for hotels (in Florida, the Poconos and the New Jersey coast) has made Passover a richer time for her siblings, in-laws, children and grandchildren, who are spread around the world. They hike and visit. What they don’t do is cook or clean.
“Last year, the place in Orlando was across the street from Sea World,” said her husband, Phil. “The kids loved it.”
On Friday, the Lehmans will drive to the Lancaster Host Resort & Conference Center in the Amish countryside in Pennsylvania. For 10 days, the resort will be filled with 1,000 mostly Orthodox Jews marking Passover. Promotional materials mention tennis, swimming (men and women separately), video games and nearby outlet malls. The Lancaster retreat, which began four years ago, is thought to be the closest large Passover resort to the District.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:11 (eleven years ago) link
TBH that article also described a passover hiking retreat in the desert outside Moab, which sounded pretty cool.
― quincie, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:36 (eleven years ago) link
Hey Jews I just dled "The Hasty Haggadah" on my kindle. That plus non-kosher restaurant seder should have me pretty well covered for a non-jew.
― quincie, Friday, 6 April 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
whole wheat matzah in matza bri is not as good as regular matzah
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 7 April 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
hey quincie - i keep wanting to talk about spinoza but i'm put off by the amount i want to write and the time it'll take to do justice to it. very short version is that i love spinoza, and am really only a believer bc of a mixture of him, gnosticism (as distilled by 17th century kaballah + the altar rebbe's chassidut), and abraham joshua heschel's torah min ha'shamayim. i'm not quite as enamored with kaplan + the reconstructionist movement, tho i once attended a reconstructionist yom kippur service. just a little too flighty and not theologically (or intellectually) rigorous enough to really appeal to me (at one point they asked everyone to turn to their neighbors and bless them to have the "serenity to accept the things you cannot change, / Courage to change the things you can, / And wisdom to know the difference." blargh, And it was at that point my darlings, that marks the first place in The Service at which Tonstant Weader fwowed up.
anyway, tho i would love to talk about spinoza (particularly panantheism - the idea that G-d is both the entirety of nature and above it*), the altar + esp mittler rebbe who have these wild narratives about hishtadlus (the progression + mechanics of reality) and heshel who basically gave me my get out of jail free card for belief** despite the fact that the torah is full of crazy stuff that i can't sign off on (like stoning homosexuals). but this'll have to wait until after passover when i've got a lot more time i think
* i was just noticing/reaffirming in the haggadah last night when G-d says, "me and not an angel, me and not a messenger" how important it is that spinoza advanced pantheism to panantheism so that you can have an active creator who is simultaneously filling all of creation and also above it, acting in it day to day. religion without a creator that i can actually ask to do things doesn't work for me at all.
** very short version bc i realize i can't just say that and not explain it - he says there's a heavenly torah and an earthly torah and that the second one is a translation of the first. he locates in the revelation narrative this moment where a suprahuman document is put into human words - particularly the words of desert-dwelling israelites. so we can simultaneously accept the torah as the closest thing we have to this heavenly document of perfection, while still being wary at any translation that would've made sense to the times + ethics of ancient Judea, but that seems ethically problematic to us today. it kinda gives us the space to radically change + alter things that bother us, but without harming the essential platonic form. (modifying this can also help deal with all kinds of historical evidence that traditional apologetics can't deal with - aka documentary hypothesis, etc.) this is already getting lengthy tho and i realize there's like a thousand more things i want to say about it, so this is pretty much why i didn't want to start discussing until after chag. but anyway, happy passover all! :)
― Mordy, Saturday, 7 April 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
overheard at my family's seder last night "google the 10 commandments, somebody."
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 7 April 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
^^^lol
Mordy, thanks for the quick hit, looking forward to more.
I managed to secure the last box of normal (well, "thin, unsalted") matzah at the local grocery last night; have managed to hold myself to two sheets so far. More to come at tonight's non-kosher restaurant seder conducted by two non-Jews.
― quincie, Saturday, 7 April 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
can i just say, i will never understand why people buy whole wheat matzo, or egg matzo for that reason.
there was a minor revolt last night when all the "good" matzo got eaten about 15 minutes in
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 7 April 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
egg matzo isn't that bad
― iatee, Saturday, 7 April 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
just not my thing
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 7 April 2012 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
you know what's good? matzo slathered in butter. gimme some of that.
Looking for breakfast ideas as I don't want to eat matza bri too much. I guess I will have yogurt and fruit or:
Israeli breakfast--tomato, cucumber, and a yogurt. Not mixed, just each one eaten plain. forget where I just saw this online
http://www.culinate.com/articles/culinate8/passover_breakfast
cottage cheese
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 7 April 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
For breakfast today, we made this: http://www.marthastewart.com/312978/skillet-matzo-brei-with-cinnamon-apple-a
You know what's insanely good for a treat? This: http://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-chocolate-caramel-matzo-47589
But damned if I'm not already tired of matzoh and all matzoh products/byproducts.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 7 April 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
Also, keep this in mind: http://www.distillery209.com/gin/our-kosher-cousin/
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 7 April 2012 20:01 (eleven years ago) link
One of my two new-ish cats just moments ago took a bite of the far side of my matzoh sheet and kept on going after. I tried to find a Jewish partner on JDate and failed, yet I found a Jewish cat at Tails High Rescue Org.
― quincie, Sunday, 8 April 2012 04:36 (eleven years ago) link
Epic day in the kitchen on Friday. No time for breakfast or lunch. Made haroset, matzo ball soup, brisket, kugel, and asparagus. Sister-in-law joined me in the afternoon to bake the macaroons and an orangey cake w/ berry sauce. Cleaned up, showered, set the table and drrring, the first guests showed up. Everything turned out great, but esp. the brisket.
I heartily recommend "A Children's Haggadah" for those celebrating along with little 'uns. It's really well done.
BTW "Dayenu" should have its own thread on ILM, if it doesn't already. That song rocks.
― collardio gelatinous, Monday, 9 April 2012 03:01 (eleven years ago) link
I still have fond memories of my late uncle doing his speedy version of "Chad Gadya"
― curmudgeon, Monday, 9 April 2012 14:12 (eleven years ago) link
http://gothamist.com/2012/04/08/the_real_ex-hasidim_of_new_york_get.php
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Monday, 9 April 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
today is yom hashoah
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:32 (eleven years ago) link
Was I supposed to have lit my Yom Hashoah candle last night?
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:50 (eleven years ago) link
you can light it now if you want. it's a custom, not a law. (my family doesn't light them.)
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 17:55 (eleven years ago) link
just saw a suv of smoking, laughing, hasidic teenagers whip by me.
(i see suvs full of hasids every day, but this was an especially vivid moment)
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 19 April 2012 20:32 (eleven years ago) link
hasidim don't really hold by yom hashoah
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
i only really remember observing it in hebrew school.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 19 April 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
I was sent a special Yom Hashoah candle in the mail.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:06 (eleven years ago) link
what was the last summer blockbuster based on little-known material that succeeded
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
you can strike "summer" from that entirely if you like
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
wait waht
calling yom hashoah "little-known material" is pretty cold
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
xposts, yeah yom hashoah is not a religious holy day, it's a secular rememberance day
― i don't believe in zimmerman (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:12 (eleven years ago) link
calm down guys - wrong thread/cross-posting
― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
Why is it that remembrance of so many ancient experiences of the Jews are holidays but yom hashoah is 'secular'. It reminds me of the Protestant tendency to call Paul 'Saint Paul' but then deny there are any ppl worthy of being saints since, like, the 2nd century.
― L'ennui, cette maladie de tous les (Michael White), Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
well what was the last blockbuster holiday based on little-known material that succeeded
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 19 April 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
crisis of authority since the dissolution of the Sanhedrin xp
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 April 2012 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
moving on from serious to this:
Are these guys any good?
The 13th annual Washington Jewish Music Festival brings Hadag Nahash, the best-selling hip hop band in Israel, to the Fillmore Silver Spring for a live show featuring their high-energy dance mix of funk, rock, reggae and Middle Eastern beats. With six hit albums released since 2000, they've also won awards for their social activism, with political songs that rail against racism, corruption and the rising internal violence in Israel. Lead singer Sha'anan Streett pens much of Hadag Nahash's music, and the band has shared the stage with artists like the Black Eyed Peas, Matisyahu and others, as well as landing a song on the soundtrack of the Adam Sandler movie Don't Mess With the Zohan.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 20 April 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
yes, they are!
― Mordy, Friday, 20 April 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
much better than the artists they've shared the stage with, or the films they've contributed songs to
Hadag Nahash are great, yes, go see them.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 20 April 2012 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
zohan is good! it's adam sandler's MUNICH.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 20 April 2012 14:54 (eleven years ago) link
thought about posting this on the fake jews thread but anyway this book looks really coolhttp://www.jewishreviewofbooks.com/publications/detail/what-a-friend-we-have-in-jesus
― Mordy, Friday, 27 April 2012 22:09 (eleven years ago) link
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50E11FC3F5C11738DDDAE0994D1405B8885F0D3
In the Temple Israel of Harlem Dr. M. H. Harris delivered a lecture last night on "The Influence of Good Wishes." The sermon to-day will be on "The Jewish Question." This morning's topics at some of the other principal places of worship will be: Temple Beth-El. Fifth Avenue and Seventy-sixth Street, "The Larger Life and Larger Visions," (in English;) West End. "Sunshine and Shade": Atereth Israel, in East Eighty-second Street. "Individual Contributions for a Prosperous Year"; Temple Emanu-El. Fifth Avenue and Forty-fourth Street. "The New Era."
― Mordy, Sunday, 29 April 2012 01:56 (eleven years ago) link
HEY JEWS I JUST JOINED THE JCC WHAT MORE DO I GOTTA DO C'MON
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:17 (eleven years ago) link
I mean xpost to Mordy but hey I'm gettin' real now; they had to adjust the membership camera for a 5'11 person I mean I'm sorry I'm tall but let me be one of you.
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:19 (eleven years ago) link
For real I should post the pick because aside from the tall I promise I could pass! I've been told so by REAL JEWS.
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:20 (eleven years ago) link
pick=pic, also it has been decided by some real jew friends that I can't pass not b/c of the tall but b/c my nose has not been "fixed" true story yo
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:21 (eleven years ago) link
Why do suburban reform/conservative jew girls take nose jobs as a thing idgi. Does this happen in orthodox communities (Mordy? Help me out here)?
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:23 (eleven years ago) link
Also I am on prednisone in an attempt to get my back problems in order so please ignore me I am wired. No don't b/c I really would like thought on jewish body image stuff.
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 06:25 (eleven years ago) link
nose jobs not such a big thing in ortho communities. have u read pynchon's V? big chapter on jewish nose jobs.
"Have I told you, fellaShe's got the sweetest columellaAnd a septum that's swept 'em all on their ass;Each casual chondrectomyMeant only a big fat check to meTill I sawed this osteoclastible lass
not sure how common it is in any jewish community in 2012 tbh.
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 May 2012 07:51 (eleven years ago) link
Oh damn, I have not read V, but it is now on my short list.
I can reel off so many nose jobs that I figured they were a widespread cultural thing idunno. But yeah, noses are a thing at the JCC in DCMetroarea.
― quincie, Thursday, 3 May 2012 08:29 (eleven years ago) link
i just realized that you might've been literally asking why jewish women would get nose jobs (i had initially read your question as more like: 'i can't believe ppl are willing to do this to themselves!'). there's a lot of racial baggage about jews and noses - particularly assertions that they are genetically predisposed to having large noses. i remember reading this in school:
All the children raise their hands. The teacher calls on Karl Scholz, a small lad in the front row. “We have talked about how to recognize the Jews.”“Good. Say more!”Little Karl reaches for the pointer, steps up to the board and points at the drawings.“One can most easily tell a Jew by his nose. The Jewish nose is bent at its point. It looks like the number six. We call it the Jewish six. Many non-Jews also have bent noses. But their noses bend upwards, not downwards. Such a nose is a hook nose or an eagle nose. It is not at all like a Jewish nose.”
“Good. Say more!”
Little Karl reaches for the pointer, steps up to the board and points at the drawings.
“One can most easily tell a Jew by his nose. The Jewish nose is bent at its point. It looks like the number six. We call it the Jewish six. Many non-Jews also have bent noses. But their noses bend upwards, not downwards. Such a nose is a hook nose or an eagle nose. It is not at all like a Jewish nose.”
there's tons of anti-Semitic cartoons that prominently feature a caricature with a large hooked nose. i'm not sure how common jewish nose jobs still are, but at one point in america they were very common. i think they generally indicate someone who feels they look too Jewish and wants to pass - which is why they're afaik virtually non-existent in the orthodox community (who aren't trying to pass).
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 May 2012 12:43 (eleven years ago) link
would it be unkind to say that anyone seeking a rhinoplasty to dissimulate their ethnicity in america in 2012 is a pusillanimous fool
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:30 (eleven years ago) link
unkind but fair. u should go to war with the nose you have, not the nose you wish you had
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:31 (eleven years ago) link
this is my favourite nose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nose_%28Gogol%29
i don't remember it having any antisemitic elements
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:37 (eleven years ago) link
ironically the one time gogol wasn't a raving anti-semite
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:41 (eleven years ago) link
probably all the c19th russian greats were at least somewhat antisemitic
gogol at least had the excuse of being completely insane
― nakhchivan, Thursday, 3 May 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
has anyone heard anything about this? http://www.amazon.com/The-Genealogical-Science-Epistemology-Practices/dp/0226201406
i kinda really want to read it, but i'm nervous about it...
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
I vaguely recall reading something about that, somewhere.
In other jew news: I bought some challah today.
― quincie, Friday, 11 May 2012 17:21 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy, I remember reading about some genetic study of Kohens (Cohen, Cohn, Kohn, etc...) worldwide and how many of them could actually trace themselves back to a single ancestor, presumably Aaron.
― Love Max Ophüls of us all (Michael White), Friday, 11 May 2012 17:25 (eleven years ago) link
pretty sure they all go back to the coen brothers
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 11 May 2012 18:06 (eleven years ago) link
the coen fathers
― max, Friday, 11 May 2012 18:07 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah- I read a decent book about Jewish genetics a couple years ago called something like Abraham's Children. This book seems more about interrogating the discursive elements of genetics rather than the scientific corpus. I think Jewish discussions of hereditary inheritance are kinda ripe targets for criticism, so maybe unfairly I worry that this book will be polemical. I really hate that shalom sand book, tangentially.
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:24 (eleven years ago) link
I would almost guarantee that book will be at least subtly polemical.
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:26 (eleven years ago) link
That's what worries me, especially bc often what is being covertly discussed when you talk about Jewish genetics is political (particularly wrt Israel). I find it really offensive when someone explains to me that my ancestors were importers (cf sand).
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
yeah even reading that synopsis i was 'waiting for it'
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:29 (eleven years ago) link
who says our ancestors were importers???
On an unrelated note my copy of Herschel's 'on prophets' just came in. I'm really excited to read it
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
I mean her other major book is about Jewish claims to Israeli land.
Which is not to say that her work is not legitimate, I just think it's an example of how "exposing" the political motives behind something can also a political move.
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry zing typo meant "imposters" xp
Like you know, the subtext sort of strikes me as "Judaism is a CONSTRUCTED identity," and then there's no accompanying caveat on how maybe so is Palestinian, Arab, White, African-American, British, Italian, etc.
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
Don't get me wrong, I think Jewish claims to Israel based on ancient ties are about as silly as anything.
― Scott, bass player for Tenth Avenue North (Hurting 2), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:33 (eleven years ago) link
Part of the tension here is that genetics are incredibly important to Ashkenazi Jewishness beyond just inheritance wrt genetic disorders, testing, etc. Forward for instance has a yearly Genetics supplement so it's not like this is all bullshit eugenics constructed identity stuff. It's also life and death stuff ppl deal w daily
― Mordy, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
All identity is constructed! Do we really think that any king's lineage is 100% reliable?!
― Love Max Ophüls of us all (Michael White), Friday, 11 May 2012 19:55 (eleven years ago) link
It's all about street cred in the ghetto.
― bnw, Friday, 11 May 2012 19:57 (eleven years ago) link
Ok taking this thread in another direction appropriate for SHABBAT . . .
I'd love to hear experiences/thoughts on shabbat observance/non-observance. Did you grow up with any Shabbat observance? Do you do anything special for Shabbat now? Or is it just another day/no biggie?
― quincie, Friday, 11 May 2012 22:51 (eleven years ago) link
used to grow up with candles/family dinner.
as with all jewish observance, i dont do nothin now
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 11 May 2012 23:12 (eleven years ago) link
Did you like the candles/dinner thing, or did you resent it? Do you find yourself drawn to that idea now, or not at all?
― quincie, Friday, 11 May 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
Did you grow up with any Shabbat observance?
My family is observant, so full blown Shabbos observance.
Do you do anything special for Shabbat now? Or is it just another day/no biggie?
Obviously I'm not totally observant, but we go out for Shabbos meals about once a week and host them ourselves. We also go to shul every few weeks or so. We like the social aspects a lot, but not the restrictions so much. I would never work on Shabbos.
― Mordy, Saturday, 12 May 2012 02:46 (eleven years ago) link
― quincie, Friday, May 11, 2012 7:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i was fine with it, and i still am, but its not my thing
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Saturday, 12 May 2012 14:46 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.out.com/entertainment/music/2012/05/15/y-love-yitz-jordan-hip-hop-jewish-gay
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 13:45 (eleven years ago) link
i've interviewed yitz for profiles / traveling in overlapping social circles with him over the years so it's nice to hear the news
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
x-post-
I grew up with the candles/dinner thing then got away from it. Then I did again while my son was young until he was Bar Mitzvahed, then I got away from it again. I have worked some Saturday mornings, and my son frequently has had ballgames on Shabbat.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 15 May 2012 15:07 (eleven years ago) link
every time i see the title of this thread now i think of the louis ck schindler's list "GOODBYE JEWS" bit anyone know what im talking about
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:28 (eleven years ago) link
haha yes
― horseshoe, Monday, 21 May 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
yes, def!
― catbus otm (gbx), Monday, 21 May 2012 14:57 (eleven years ago) link
OMG googled it, in tears
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Monday, 21 May 2012 15:17 (eleven years ago) link
On Thursday, May 24th, Sixth & I celebrates Shavuot like nowhere else. Don't miss this high-energy, entertainment-rich, and thought-provoking evening in anticipation of the festival holiday. Taste blintzes, beer, and dairy delights. Hear Matisyahu unplugged. Understand the thoughts behind the music. Ask questions. Study late into the night with Rabbi Shira Stutman.
Does any of this relate to the Torah being revealed, harvesting of wheat, bring fruit to the temple or not working?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 19:59 (eleven years ago) link
bringing
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:00 (eleven years ago) link
Well, eating blintzes + dairy delights are historical customs that have to do with the state of kashrut laws before the giving of the Torah (and I think with the Holofernes narrative?). Matisyahu is Jewish, idk. Studying late into the night is also a historical custom, also with roots in the actual Mt Sinai story (ppl slept the night before the Torah was given which was a no-no, so now we do a tikkun by staying up all night and learning).
When I was in Yeshiva, they spent the entire night of Shvuot teaching Gemara. One particular year they went through the fourth + fifth chapters of Baba Metziah which are basically all tort law and very difficult and at 3:00 in the morning I probably retained 10% of what I heard.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
this year i've been roped into giving a lecture about the midrash where the angels protest to G-d that He shouldn't give the Torah to the Jewish ppl but should keep it up in heaven. Moshe responds to them by saying, "do u have a desire to worship idols? do you have parents you need to respect? do you have to follow laws of fair business when you buy and sell?" etc and so he gets to bring it down. i'm talking about this story in the context of the agricultural law that states that if you're going to sell a piece of land, your neighbors have right of first refusal (the angels in this case being the neighbors, and moshe's answers actually being legalese to disavow their claim.)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:26 (eleven years ago) link
while i'm here... this link is blowing up my fb feed today:http://www.xojane.com/relationships/hasidic-women-sex
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:28 (eleven years ago) link
I think we can safely consider the point missed.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
That article makes some reasonable points, but I wonder what the author's take is on, for example, the yiddish flyers I have seen mere blocks from my apartment that say that women should step aside whenever men are coming down the sidewalk, or the delis that require women to sit separately with the kids while men sit together (tbf, I find this as offensive to the men as it is to the women -- I want to eat with my wife).
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
OTOH, we ate dinner in the home of a chabbadnick family not too long ago (my wife's co-worker) and one interesting thing we learned was that chassidic women are often more educated in a worldly sense than men, since the men spend all their time studying talmud and the women are forbidden to do so.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
I knew that! In fact the message I got was that women are pretty likely to work outside the home, even to be the "professional" member of the househole bc the families need their income and the men are called to study instead of work.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah.
Chabbad Lubavitch is also a group with sort of an "outreach" philosophy so they may be even moreso. But I was sort of surprised to see, e.g., that they shopped at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's on occasion and served belgian beer with dinner. Probably not even the best details, just the ones that stuck out in my mind.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 22:07 (eleven years ago) link
I think of the Lubavitch as the happy Jews--and Trader Joe's has TONS of kosher stuff that's not easy to find (I'm told), so that's a big favorite.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 22:14 (eleven years ago) link
that article appears to commend an ancient religious codex for how successfully anticipates the mores and proclivities of liberal new york in 2012, which is of course the greatest cultural paradigm yet seen
― Serov devochka s persikami (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 22 May 2012 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
just one B, btw in Chabad (incidentally, my family's ortho tradition)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 22:42 (eleven years ago) link
hey jews I have questions about much of the above but it will have to wait till the morrow why because going to bed now
― quincie, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
oh but before I go I now have a jewish personal trainer and kvetch with naked jew ladies in the whirlpool at the JCC. Pretty sure I'm passing, no one has called me out!
― quincie, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 01:47 (eleven years ago) link
Ha
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 14:03 (eleven years ago) link
both really worth reading:schafer on boyarin - http://www.tnr.com/article/103373/books-and-arts/magazine/jewish-gospels-christ-boyarinbrill on schafer - http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/peter-schafer-responds-to-daniel-boyarin/
the second link kinda gives institutional/intellectual context for the first
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 May 2012 03:21 (eleven years ago) link
cool, love this stuff
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Thursday, 31 May 2012 04:40 (eleven years ago) link
smdh this morning @ http://finkorswim.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Ami-Mag-Student-Loans.pdf
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 13:57 (eleven years ago) link
It sounds like a cliché, but I was the "top bochur" in my yeshiva.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 14:36 (eleven years ago) link
lol, srsly
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 14:38 (eleven years ago) link
omg that article
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
i cant even
ye gods
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:22 (eleven years ago) link
American orthodox culture is so far from my experience and appreciation of Jewishness (they wouldn't consider me halachically jewish for one thing). Super disquieting.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:25 (eleven years ago) link
Ha. Hahahahaha. That guy. His wife is like 300% better off now, surely?
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:34 (eleven years ago) link
For sure. Poor kids tho. I know this isn't a phenomenon unique to the American charedi community but deciding your marriage is shit, and then having a bunch more kids, is srsly wtf to me. Btw, I am the big exception from my graduating high school class wrt kollel. Probably 90% of my class did at least some kollel after marriage and a sizable proportion is likely still there.
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
its really kind of crazy to me that he not only expects his wife to support him for the rest of his life, and his kids, but he resents that she works long hours, and resents that she has student debt, and somehow he's the victim of a great lie. for fuck's sake
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:45 (eleven years ago) link
i keep thinking that some kind of clerks-esque slacker torah scholar movie would be hilarious (maybe only to me)
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
What did he say, again? "I was looking forward to the day when she would admit defeat"? I can imagine the anguish she'd be feeling by that time, having to admit to her scholar husband that as much as she tried to protect his lifestyle with her own labor, she was going to need some kind of grudging help from the father of her 4 children.
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:48 (eleven years ago) link
he's clearly a terrible human being
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
"I can't say that I wasn't at fault, too. I should have made more of an effort to repress my resentment."
kinda says it all, really.
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
whats the weirdest is that he actually wrote the article himself, portraying him as the victim in this situation
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, June 1, 2012 11:59 AM (23 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lollll so true
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
it's kinda the charedi version of an article by a young person who got a degree in liberal arts and is heartbroken that they can't write poetry for a living. of course ilx sympathizes much more w/ the lib arts person...
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:04 (eleven years ago) link
i doubt ilx does, but it's not really the same thing involved as in that hypothetical liberal arts article they're not expecting someone else to shoulder the burden
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i realized that's obv a big difference the moment i posted. he has kids and an ex-wife that he's failing to take care of.
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
haha are you kidding, no way ilx sympathizes with the lib arts poet
― max, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
i really don't understand how learning torah can seem more important than taking care of your family. maybe this is why that world didn't work for me.
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:08 (eleven years ago) link
torah is diaper-free iirc
― Peppermint Patty Hearst (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
i do think there have been occasions where ppl express sympathy on ilx for the lib arts grad, but that's way afield and i didn't mean to turn this into a discussion about that.
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:09 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think it's really worth comparing. tbh.
― A Little Princess btw (s1ocki), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure where to start with that article. . . these are not the nice jewish boys I know!
― quincie, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
he probably went to a shitty second-rate yeshiva anyway
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:32 (eleven years ago) link
I don't care who that guy is, really, but who PUBLISHED his bullshit whining, anyway?
― how did I get here? why am I in the whiskey aisle? this is all so (Laurel), Friday, 1 June 2012 16:51 (eleven years ago) link
these guys: http://amimagazine.org/
it's a frummie magazine
― Mordy, Friday, 1 June 2012 16:59 (eleven years ago) link
wow. this isn't the standard dynamic of employment in haredi communities, is it? on reflection, i definitely see more women than men working in the communities near my neighbourhood but i can't imagine that this situation is the norm...
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Saturday, 2 June 2012 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
definitely not the standard, and not the standard (afaik) in most chassidic communities. i could be wrong about this, but i think it's a uniquely non-chassidic right-wing charedi phenomenon (and really probably only among certain students attending probably 2-3 dozen schools throughout the country).
― Mordy, Saturday, 2 June 2012 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
From this Tablet Mag interview with Sam Harris:
Well, that’s the kind of uniquely distorting lens of Judaism, because only a Jew could say I am an Orthodox Jew but I don’t believe in God. That is not an oxymoron in the same way as it would be to say I’m a devout Catholic who doesn’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God, or I’m a devout Muslim who doesn’t believe the Quran is the word of God. Judaism is, in every form, the least committed to a clear otherworldly vision of what happens after death. You can be a Jew for whom all of the trappings of Judaism, the religion, are very important, and yet there’s absolutely no content to your religious beliefs. You like the food. You like the music. You like the clothes. You like the ethical strictures and the weird rituals, and the limitations on your freedom that can only make sense based on some kind of theology that you now no longer endorse.
Uh oh!
― Mordy, Sunday, 3 June 2012 01:24 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, so what? It's fun to do those things! That's basically the mission statement of Reconstructionist Judaism right there.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
I would sort of like to see the rest of the context of that statement.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:24 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think he's entirely wrong, but I think you'd find a lot fewer atheist jews in an orthodox synagogue than in a reform one, and I also find the statement about afterlife kind of a non-sequitur -- I don't understand why believing in god is necessarily linked with an afterlife.
― this guy's a gangsta? his real name's mittens. (Hurting 2), Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:25 (eleven years ago) link
there's some story that i don't remember clearly at the moment about someone smoking a cigar on shabbos while learning talmud, and when they ask him why, he says, "because it's geshmak!" also, i guess there was a rumor that some students at Slobodka yeshiva used to smoke on Shabbat:
"Their studies were not limited to mathematics. Often before class they would engage in deep Talmudic disputation, "…often without yarmulkes, on Shabbos, smoking cigarettes. They just loved to learn Talmud. It is hard for us to understand that frame of mind. We only associate ‘learning’ with the religious experience, while they learned purely for intellectual motives," Rabbi Wein observed in one of his taped "Biography" lectures."
nb i have no idea how true this is (i don't even know if rabbi wein said it was true in that 'lecture')
― Mordy, Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:26 (eleven years ago) link
oh, forgot to post the link above, it's here:http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/100757/qa-sam-harris/
other interesting stuff in the interview too
― Mordy, Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
Harris makes this point again in a debate alongside Christopher Hitchens with two Jewish scholars: Youtube (go to 1:25:00). Hitchens quips that Jews have a "gene for atheism."
I have no educated opinion one way or another.
― Träumerei, Sunday, 3 June 2012 03:33 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/when-you-re-on-the-path-of-truth-you-don-t-care-what-others-say-1.419078
― Mordy, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
what path is this guy on:
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/06/kosher-sex-celebrity-rabbi-shmuley-boteach-wins-nj-9-gop-primary.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 6 June 2012 20:11 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.1-800-dreidel.com/images/products/detail/ShalomanHanukkahCollection.jpg
― Mordy, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:32 (eleven years ago) link
cool
― curmudgeon, Monday, 11 June 2012 03:33 (eleven years ago) link
can we talk about how insanely fucked up bar mitzvah parties have become?
i went to my cousin's kids bar mitzvah last week. the service is at a conservative temple, long and boring obv. at one point my yarmulke falls off for the 3rd time so i just give up on it, until some lady pokes me in the back and says "cover your head". And then the party part was insane! 1) 13 yr old girls wearing the shortest skirts i have ever seen, like beyond prostitutes on street corners. 2) there are people paid to lead the kids in dancing and playing games. 3) WTF at 13 year olds passing around a mic talking about how great the bar mitvah'd kid is like he has just come back from iraq or something. the ego stroking is insane. 4) the dance games consist of a musical chairs type thing except when the music stops the girls and boys have to hug each other(!) and if you don't have a boy/girl to hug, you are out. 5) they are serving bacon at brunch -.-
― bnw, Monday, 11 June 2012 05:27 (eleven years ago) link
Most of that sounds roughly like when I was on the bar/bat mitzvah circuit a decade ago. Never had bacon at a bar mitzvah function though.
I'm pretty sure that when you get up into quid/ag territory the parties get a lot scarier.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:00 (eleven years ago) link
By the way the one time I kissed/made out with my middle school girlfriend was in the coat closet at the synagogue during her bat mitzvah party.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:02 (eleven years ago) link
A couple years ago I was at a cousin's bat mitzvah and they were handing around lamb chops as hors d'ouerves, that was an amazing innovation imo. Had like twelve.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Monday, 11 June 2012 06:03 (eleven years ago) link
one for each tribe
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 11 June 2012 13:08 (eleven years ago) link
tell me what u guys think: http://chakira.org/2012/06/14/jewish-gothic-horror-stories-from-lakewood/
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 June 2012 04:37 (eleven years ago) link
wow, what a fascinating and bizarre story.
i feel like i am missing a lot here.
but i'm intrigued, gonna read your urban legend piece.
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 05:00 (eleven years ago) link
cat in the cholent, eh?
― High powered Texas lawyer (symsymsym), Thursday, 14 June 2012 07:31 (eleven years ago) link
Awesome I'm so glad you picked up on the old-west ghost-story feel of that particular legend!
― There are many tribes in the Juggalo nation (Viceroy), Thursday, 14 June 2012 09:07 (eleven years ago) link
hey s1ocki -- it was kinda written for a maybe more insider audience. what kind of stuff did you feel like you were missing? i'll clean it up in the original
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 June 2012 12:26 (eleven years ago) link
oh i don't think it's really missing anything, it just sort of takes place in a context way more "deep-jewish" than i'm used to!
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:26 (eleven years ago) link
oh yeah, lakewood is hardcore
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
also the whole idea of invoking hell and eternal punishment is so alien to me in a jewish context
― brony ver (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 June 2012 14:33 (eleven years ago) link
after many years of searching, i finally got a digital copy of this album:
http://static.mostlymusic.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/250x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/9/197_3.jpg
sorry image quality is terrible. it's by a group called Black Hattitude and the album is called R.E.L.I.G.I.O.N.
it borrowed a bunch of Tribe Called Quest among other 'classic' hip-hop beats and then rapped about Jewish themes on top of it.
for example "The Infamous Date Rape" became "Shidduch Date"
anyway, i listened to this all throughout Yeshiva high school. it was kinda popular for the more moderate/open-minded students to listen to and a lot of the album deals with trying to reach troubled religious kids ("the pshat ain't glatt so your ears don't rot" aka the message isn't totally 100% kosher so that you can enjoy it too). from what i understand the two guys who made the album later became more religious and repudiated the whole thing - one moved to Lakewood IIRC and the other to Israel. which is why it's basically impossible to find but a good friend of mine found an mp3 copy on an old computer and graciously sent it to me.
i'm thinking that if anyone is interested in hearing it (and i'm willing to accept that this is only super interesting to me), maybe i'll grab an outloud room one evening and play the whole thing. let me know.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
whoa. i'd be more interested in just hearing your comments about it tbh!
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
on their way, tbh. once i've got a free moment i'm going to do a loose history/article about it (i want to do a larger piece about American Charedi Pop Music, still working out the kinks + placement)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:41 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy do you have a thing you wrote somewhere on ILX or elsewhere abt your current relationship w/ charedi Judaism? Like I'm curious abt what I sort of assume to be yr movement away from it but I'm sure you've talked about it before.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:49 (eleven years ago) link
i would be interested in knowing more myself
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 17:53 (eleven years ago) link
i kinda talk a little bit about it on this thread in bits and pieces: Ask a Rabbi
after work (which will be really late tnite bc after daytime work i have a lot of editing to do) i'll write a little bit more about my current relationship w/ charedi Judaism.
atm, tho, i'll mention that i sat in a super super religious lecture last night given by R' Adin Steinsaltz, who was the first Rabbi to translate the Talmud into English. It was in honor of Gimmel Tamuz, which is the day of the lunar/Hebrew calendar that the Lubavitcher Rebbe (R' Menachem Mendel Schneersohn who u might know as the Rabbi that Chabad ~believes is the Messiah), passed away. anyway, he was talking a lot about how Judaism is at root an intellectual religion.
he was really funny. he kept saying that Americans are stupid and that even Americans pursuing intellectual careers aren't real intellectuals, and that the Rebbe was bummed while he was alive bc none of his chassidim would talk intellectually with him (but that R' Steinsaltz would). he's super old and wrinkly, but hilarious, he kept saying, "i do not want to offend anyone here, but Americans are not intellectual. they are even anti-intellectual," and then he was like, "maybe you will go home and open a book and start to learn to show that i am wrong. look at how wrong he was! look at how i am learning. that is fine. if you go home and learn to prove me wrong, that will be a result that i am happy with. you should all go home and learn to prove that i am wrong." it was lol. the lecture was ostensibly about why it is important to study the Rambam (Maimonidies).
anyway, i mention all of this bc in the middle of his lecture i was thinking about my relationship to charedi judaism -- like this was a crowd dense w/ black hats, jackets, beards. i went with my father who is still totally charedi in every way. anyway, i scribbled this note on my iPhone which i thought summed up a lot about my faith, tho it's more complex and i could probably shed a million words discussing it (nb i should mention i was inebriated during the lecture and penned this in that state):
My observance is not a function of my level of belief, but a function of the level of compromise within my mind and body that I think I can sustain. Faith is unlimited by behavior is biological.
By which I think I mean that I'm at a level of engagement and observance (and I could detail exactly what that entails) that is comfortable for me. This is not generally okay within charedi orthodoxy, you're always supposed to be trying to become more religious. but it works for me, and obv i'm very invested in Judaism as practice/idea/intellectual movement (Steinsaltz would be proud! Maybe), but i mention this story bc a) i think it's entertaining + tells u something about american right-wing community and b) bc i think maybe it's telling about me too? like, i'm willing to go to an extremely religious lecture event for a very specific memorial, but like, i feel a part from most of the people there, and what i end up thinking + writing about is my own distance/nearness to charedism.
tldr version: it's complicated, more to come later?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:18 (eleven years ago) link
that's a good story and thanks for the link to the Ask a Rabbi thread.
I should talk about what the Reconstructionist shul I grew up going to was like sometime. Nobody really knows what Reconstructionism is outside of the movement.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:23 (eleven years ago) link
i went to a reconstructionist synagogue once! i was 12 and it was during Yom Kippur. a bunch of us kids played dungeons and dragons in the other room while the adults wore white and gave each other blessings.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:24 (eleven years ago) link
thanks mordz
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:26 (eleven years ago) link
I never played Dungeons & Dragons at shul though I did play one session with a friend from there.
In fifth grade I wrote an awesome original song about the ten commandments and sang it into my tiger talkboy for torah school.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
your thoughts actually brush up against something i've been thinking about lately, which is... as a totally agnostic jew, is it possible to retain any of my jewish identity in any kind of good faith at all?
i almost have this all-or-nothing feeling, that is, if i were to believe any of it, then wouldn't it only make sense to believe/practice all of it? in any religious continuum, aren't the most devout/fundamentalist thinkers always going to, ultimately, win the argument?
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:28 (eleven years ago) link
it's the 21st century, identity is your playground and tribalism is getting redefined.
I'm a non-kosher, goyish-mother, non-synagogue-attending, non-god-believing, bacon-cheeseburger-eating Jew, but I'm a Jew dammit, and I defy anyone to take that away from me or deny me that part of myself and my cultural history.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
sure but doesn't that make being jewish no different than being like, 'i'm a goth!'
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:32 (eleven years ago) link
i mean i'm actually totally like you... completely secular, and yet jewishness is always ~there~. im just trying to figure out what it means.
i used to feel that way, but there are so many agnostics + moderates in jewish history stretching all the way back to the beginning (practically) that there's a whole jewish tradition you can latch onto and feel rooted in authentic practice. i look a lot to ppl like shalom aleichem, spinoza, isaac bashevis singer, moses mendelssohn (bff's with Kant), even the lubavitcher rebbe who (this is controversial + maybe apocryphal) attended the Sorbon w/ Rav Solevetchik (iirc). so there's room to mediate + modulate + stuff, it's just that things for historical reasons (the massive immigration of chassidim from europe to the US following the Shoah) seem particularly dogmatic + strict atm. like either all or nothing. i think that Chabad's current form tho, where ppl at varying levels of practice can participate and do what feels comfortable without being ostracized, is going to be dominant mode in next 100 years, and i think it was dominant mode pre-1940, even in Europe. lots of those really religious looking Jews in the shtetl had various levels of observance, and 'Orthodoxy' as a term didn't exist until Reform + the haskalah began. before that you did what you did and you were a part of the greater community.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:35 (eleven years ago) link
like, why can't u be a radical intellectual jew? or whatever kind of jew you want to be? it's not like wearing a big fur hat is more legitimate. it just feels more legitimate in 2012 bc they have developed a monopoly on 'authentic' religious practice. but it's not a historically or even intellectually valid monopoly.
good answer!
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:37 (eleven years ago) link
and yes the truth is i am way more comfortable identifying as jewish than i think i would be if i was from a different background (as hard as that is to imagine) because of the culture's history of dissent, debate, intellectual engagement.
sometimes i feel that a lot of that has been completely thrown out the window in the mainstream not-so-orthodox community, especially as pertains to israel, but what the hell.
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:38 (eleven years ago) link
this is a primary source anthology I read stuff from in one of my two Jewish studies classes in my first year of college; really fun and recommended
http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-1960s-American-Sourcebook/dp/1584654171
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
Nobody really knows what Reconstructionism is outside of the movement.
i was bar mitzvah'ed at a reconstructionist synagogue and neither i nor my mom have any idea what distinguishes it from conservative judaism aside from a vague commitment to "social justice" and thus a generally more lefty/crunchy congregation.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:41 (eleven years ago) link
also i remember there being a few parody jew-rap albums in the late 80s. even back then i was too sophisticated to bother with them.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
2 live jews
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
s1ocki, i'm also secular--i'm an athiest actually--but somehow i still feel very "jewish." i suppose it's because it feels good to imagine yourself part of a group.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:43 (eleven years ago) link
i feel like i mentioned this on ilx recently, but there's a famous rumor about a particular pre-War Yeshiva where the students were all brilliant, but didn't have a lot of faith, and they'd hang out on Shabbos smoking cigars and learning Talmud.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:44 (eleven years ago) link
search inside the amazon link above for "mashiah" and read one of the most wonderful things about the relevance of Jewish practice I've ever read.
― "Holy crap," I mutter, as he gently taps my area (silby), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
ah yes 2 live jews. i guess that was early 90s rather than late 80s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8hZpXyykM
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:45 (eleven years ago) link
that Waskow piece is really beautiful, silby!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy, I would definitely read anything you wrote about Charedi pop music.
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:47 (eleven years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:43 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i guess so? or maybe more like... a tradition? i dunno
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 18:50 (eleven years ago) link
an imagined tradition, for the most part. in my case. the elements of jewish tradition that were consciously passed down to me in ritualized fashion are useless to me.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:00 (eleven years ago) link
in that case then you might as well say an imagined group as well, i don't think i really share more in common with your average jew than your average other person in my city/class/constellation of interests
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Wednesday, 20 June 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
I'm at a level of engagement and observance (and I could detail exactly what that entails) that is comfortable for me
I am interested in the details of what that entails!
― quincie, Friday, 22 June 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
i used to feel that way, but there are so many agnostics + moderates in jewish history stretching all the way back to the beginning (practically) that there's a whole jewish tradition you can latch onto and feel rooted in authentic practice.
^^^
totally agree with this, and reflects my own engagement with my cultural heritage as a Jew. I haven't been to synagogue since my rabbi died (altho I would probably go to one if I could find a decent one to join in SF). I go to seders and light the candles on Hannukah and um get drunk on Purim ... otherwise I feel like a lot of my "Jewishness" is bound up in the things I read (recently read an abridged version of Maimonides "Guide for the Perplexed, for ex.) and, to a certain extent, the way I think about cosmology and the structure of reality and other sort of high-falutin abstractions. I get very testy about the argument that all grounds of authenticity must be ceded to the most fundamentalist branches of a tradition, it's just not borne out historically, and that goes for other traditions besides Judaism as well.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno
i think if you have a science-informed, reason-based view of the world, i'm not sure what the difference is in believing in some religious practice/theology and not others
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
science can't address everything
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
anything made-up can address anything, it doesnt mean its right or reasonable to believe in it
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
well I'm not really gonna argue that Jewish theology/cosmology is somehow superior or more accurate or more believable than others - I just find it helpful in framing my own ideas. there's stuff in there that makes sense to me, it's a point of view I'm comfortable with.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
I guess to some extent a fair amount of it comes down to simple tribalism - I can find value in and have been fascinated by stuff in Buddhism, sufiism, the tarot/magick whatever, but I wasn't raised in those traditions, they don't feel like they're *mine* in the sense that I grew up learning about them and thinking about them with my family and peers.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
i'll argue that Jewish theology/cosmology is much more appealing to me aesthetically, emotively and intellectually than other theological practices i've investigated. particularly kabbalistic/gnostic/chassidic theologies are incredibly dense + satisfying to study + meditate upon. i could probably talk about this for hours and hours tbh to get into why i find it so satisfying. i think it's just very well developed philosophically, as a kinda of parallel intellectual practice to trad continental or medieval phil or whatever.
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 16:14 (eleven years ago) link
i don't think it's so controversial to say that parts of jewish intellectual tradition are probably the most cerebrally developed theologies in world? not that it makes them better or anything, but it might make them more compelling for certain kinds of ppl...
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 16:15 (eleven years ago) link
def the case for me
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
I remember getting into an debate with a christian kid in elementary school where I was basically arguing, in less sophisticated terms, that Judaism didn't assert a truth claim in the same sense that Christianity did, that it wasn't presenting its answers as *the* answers, and also that Jewish traditions were just What We Do as opposed to the "right" way of doing things. I think I benefitted a lot from being raise with that frame of mind, as opposed to one in which a religion is exclusive of all others (we're right, they're wrong).
― eggleston or instagram? (Hurting 2), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
think that goes back to s1ocki's point about Judaism's "history of dissent, debate, intellectual engagement" - that's a real thing, and it isn't necessarily present in other traditions where you are just supposed to shut up and accept things on faith or because an authority figure told you so.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
re jewish theological texts, this is one of my favorites of all time:http://www.chabad.org/library/tanya/tanya_cdo/aid/6237/jewish/Lessons-in-Tanya.htm
it is generally considered to be one of the more accessible + broad treatments of chassidic philosophy. some parts are still incredibly complex systemic treatments of divinity, creation, revelation, progression of worlds, development of human consciousness, etc, that require a lot of time and background to fully tease out. and it's supposed to be a text written for lay people! once you get into more complex + esoteric works you could spend your entire life trying to understand them (and some scholars, like wolfson at nyu, moshe idel at hebrew u, boyarin sometimes do just that)
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 16:26 (eleven years ago) link
esoteric judaism - the math rock of theologies
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
― Mordy, Friday, June 22, 2012 12:15 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
is this true though? more than the catholic church's centuries of scholarship and theology? more than hinduism?
there's definitely a skeptical, questioning element to jewish theology that i appreciate—although i don't know if that, in practice, leads to any greater freedom of thought than any other religion.
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:36 (eleven years ago) link
I dunno if freedom of the thought is the end-goal. intellectual rigor is its own reward.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
i would say that depends on what you apply it towards
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:38 (eleven years ago) link
like honestly i think the world be better served if great minds had been focused for centuries on stuff like how people get sick than transubstantiation and biblical property laws
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:39 (eleven years ago) link
re: the catholic church - frankly a lot of their theological/intellectual tradition reads like bending-over-backwards to invent arguments to justify dogma (not all, by any means, but a fair amount). Like, a lot of it strikes me as really tortured logic in the service of justifying something demonstrably ridiculous like a literal virgin birth or resurrection.
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
you mean like keeping kosher to avoid trichinosis lol
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, June 22, 2012 12:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i agree—but there were plenty of great catholic thinkers.
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:42 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, i think this is true. afaik there is not a comparable collection of scholarship, liturgy + theology in any other religion, tho i'd be interested to hear about other possibilities.
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
i could be wrong about this
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_theology
seems like these dudes thought about this stuff a lot
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:56 (eleven years ago) link
yeah not sure where you're goin with this Mordy
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
I mean Hinduism's been around longer, all those vedas...
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
it's kinda silly comparing different textual canons. i was really just trying to demonstrate that there is a huge disciplinary history that can be fulfilling to study regardless of questions of veracity. i feel like one of the major critiques of religion in the contemporary secular community is that it is intellectually vapid, and certainly tons of religious practice is vapid. but esp in judaism there is a large intellectual component undergirding it. just the legal + talmudic corpuses alone span thousands and thousands of volumes without even getting into theology or esoteric works.
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that's true, but I'm not sure the same can't be said for Hinduism and (especially) Islam
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
esp w/Islam's intellectual traditions being so wrapped up in legal & scientific issues
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 17:04 (eleven years ago) link
could be true. tbh, i'm not an expert in islamic scholarship. it's hard for me to imagine similarly large collections just bc i know how huge the jewish library is. like your average lay person could have a home library of collected talmud, mishna, tanach w/ commentaries, shulchon aruch, various other legal editions, tons of commentaries on all the aforementioned, mussar or chassidic/esoteric works, etc. it's normal in the orthodox community for even uneducated to have home libraries of hundreds of jewish books. then you walk thru like JTS or YU libraries and they're just overwhelming.
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 17:06 (eleven years ago) link
there are i suppose two complexities superimposed here, the one being a sort of highly intricate 'rigorous' logical procedure derived from certain immutable (godly) precepts and other the a sort of complexity that might come from ambiguity, overdetermination, the contemplation of the unknowable &c
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 June 2012 17:07 (eleven years ago) link
also, the words are really small in the talmud, and there's a lot of text on every page. u kno, if we decided it actually mattered which religion's text could beat up which other religion's text
https://people.cnm.edu/personal/jersherm/DrSherman/Talmud.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 17:11 (eleven years ago) link
i suppose the difference is that catholic theology (tending to the former) does not have secondary literatures, it has the word of god and various (sometimes maddeningly complicated) refinements that define what the will of god will already have been even though god in his more voluble phases neglected to describe this exactly
― dis civilization and its contents (nakhchivan), Friday, 22 June 2012 17:14 (eleven years ago) link
i don't really know what it is in the mass of jewish (or any other religious) texts that is going to help you with--what? coming to terms with your own death or something?
to me, if you can really believe in an afterlife, i suppose that eases some of the pain of existence. otherwise, it's like they said in ecclesiastes: all is vanity.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:12 (eleven years ago) link
I figure when I die I go back to where I was before I was born
problem solved
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:13 (eleven years ago) link
which is to say that basically any religious text is like any other, full of a lot of bullshit and occasional practical advice. rooting for the home team as being more 'intellectual' or whatever is just chauvinism coming out sideways.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:14 (eleven years ago) link
xpost
i mean i'd like to think i treasure the traditions yadda yadda yadda but whenever i do manage to get myself invited to a seder or something it's about fifteen minutes before i start fidgeting and looking at the door.
i like some of the stories about animals in the torah.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
which is to say that basically any religious text is like any other, full of a lot of bullshit and occasional practical advice
I don't think this is really true fwiw. there are vastly different approaches, to say nothing of actual content, between, say, the Rig Veda and Maimonides
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:16 (eleven years ago) link
whenever i do manage to get myself invited to a seder or something it's about fifteen minutes before i start fidgeting and looking at the door
can't wait to greet Elijah eh
― a dense custard of infinity (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:17 (eleven years ago) link
we usually pass one another as i'm leaving and he's just showing up.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
amateurist, with all due respect, it doesn't sound like you maybe have a lot of experience with the texts you're discussing? like, "full of a lot of bullshit and occasional practical advice" doesn't describe the Talmud at all which is pretty skimpy on practical advice but rich with deliberations into the nature of obscure tort laws punctuated by surreal and strange stories.
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 21:19 (eleven years ago) link
yeah i know, i'm being contrarian. i just get irked by secular jews who make claims for the supposed intellectual superiority of their religious texts which they aren't even that invested in.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 22 June 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
also most of what i have learnt in my life has made me more discomforted by morality, more anxious about my place and role in life, not relieved and certainly not anesthesticized, which is how i imagine u imagine the intended effect
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
fair enough, tho i take these texts very seriously and am pretty invested
― Mordy, Friday, 22 June 2012 21:22 (eleven years ago) link
p sure Buddhism has a place at the table of Spiritual Traditions That Think Baout Thangs
― catbus otm (gbx), Saturday, 23 June 2012 18:05 (eleven years ago) link
super interesting interview w/ a guy becoming a kabbalist (a for "real" kabbalist, not a kabbalah center one):http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2012/06/23/an-aspiring-mekubal-an-interview-part-i/
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 June 2012 03:40 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/106729/responding-to-readers
tbh i think that just writing an article that mentions breaking bad + the holocaust is trivializing and offensive from the get go. what a paucity of feeling to think that an amc drama is relevant at all.
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:06 (eleven years ago) link
here's the original article: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/105853/breaking-bad-karma
Since I was 12 I’ve had an unappealing, didactic distrust of people with the extreme will to live. My father’s parents were Holocaust survivors, and in grade school I received the de rigueur exposure to the horror—visiting geriatric men and women with numbers tattooed on their arms, completing assigned reading like The Diary of Anne Frank and Night. But the more information I received, the less sympathy the survivors elicited from me. Each time we clapped for the old Hungarian lady who spoke about Dachau, each time Elie Wiesel threw another anonymous anecdote of betrayal onto a page, I eyed it askance, thinking What did you do that you’re not talking about? I had the gut instinct that these were villains masquerading as victims who, solely by virtue of surviving (very likely by any means necessary), felt that they had earned the right to be heroes, their basic, animal self-interest dressed up with glorified phrases like “triumph of the human spirit.”I wondered if anyone had alerted Hitler that in the event that the final solution didn’t pan out, only the handful of Jews who actually fulfilled the stereotype of the Judenscheisse (because every group has a few) would remain to carry on the Jewish race—conniving, indestructible, taking and taking. My grandparents were not excluded from this suspicion. The same year, during a family dinner conversation about Terri Schiavo, my father made the serious request that should he fall into a vegetative state, he would like for us to keep him on life support indefinitely. Today he and I are estranged for a number of other reasons that are all somehow the same reason.
I wondered if anyone had alerted Hitler that in the event that the final solution didn’t pan out, only the handful of Jews who actually fulfilled the stereotype of the Judenscheisse (because every group has a few) would remain to carry on the Jewish race—conniving, indestructible, taking and taking. My grandparents were not excluded from this suspicion. The same year, during a family dinner conversation about Terri Schiavo, my father made the serious request that should he fall into a vegetative state, he would like for us to keep him on life support indefinitely. Today he and I are estranged for a number of other reasons that are all somehow the same reason.
tbh, might belong on the anti-semitism thread instead.
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:13 (eleven years ago) link
yikes. that piece is so...weirdly glib? about all of it. I expect something longer, some kind of conclusion but it really just kind of '"holocaust survivors and Walter White...hand-wave, et cetera...and fin."
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I don't know what to make of the tone of that
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:23 (eleven years ago) link
the article is almost so offensive to all basic human sentiments as to be inoffensive because it's clearly the rantings of an unsettled mind. like maybe the only offense is that Tablet thought that a clearly unwell human being was just a courageous idiosyncratic writer.
― Mordy, Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:24 (eleven years ago) link
dunno why the Holocaust is mentioned at all tbh
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:25 (eleven years ago) link
Right! Like...the line she thinks she's drawing between Breaking Bad and the holocaust is really unclear, to the point of not even being existent.
And the things she's saying about the Holocaust in general, I just... I don't know why you'd try to express that without being a good enough writer to explain yourself afterwards.
And the Tablet explanation of it is like..."okay so that happened. Anyway.."
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:28 (eleven years ago) link
she does not seem to understand the difference between doing things to survive (ie, Holocaust survivors) and doing things that are wrong because you know you're going to die (breaking bad). these are not the same thing.
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
yeah. I think that's exactly it
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:30 (eleven years ago) link
like, Walt is not doing evil shit to survive (at least, not as far as I've watched in the show lol)
and that intro. This is really bad: I had the gut instinct that these were villains masquerading as victims who, solely by virtue of surviving (very likely by any means necessary), felt that they had earned the right to be heroes, their basic, animal self-interest dressed up with glorified phrases like “triumph of the human spirit
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
...
surely she meant to say "triumph of the will" there lol
― the alternate vision continues his vision quest! (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:32 (eleven years ago) link
this is an interesting documentary that, among other things, addresses the popular myth that there had to have been something remarkable about the people who survived (more cunning, smarter, more self-interested, more vicious, or w/e):
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1479963/
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:56 (eleven years ago) link
That's a demented article. Commenters, for once, OTM.
― Get wolves (DL), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:57 (eleven years ago) link
I mean that's kind of a secondary point as far as the doc, but it's addressed in an interesting way vis a vis the myth that there were significant numbers of jewish "comfort women" (i.e. the fantasy women who survived the holocaust must have offered themselves to the nazis)
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Thursday, 19 July 2012 23:59 (eleven years ago) link
i remember reading a great piece about that in the voice (i don't know if it came out with the movie - i think hoberman wrote it?) but never saw the documentary. i'm really interested in seeing it
― Mordy, Friday, 20 July 2012 00:00 (eleven years ago) link
any idea where it can be seen?
― Mordy, Friday, 20 July 2012 00:01 (eleven years ago) link
I saw it at film forum. It must be on DVD somewhere but I don't know how easy it is to find.
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:06 (eleven years ago) link
Guess what Anne Breslaw went as for halloween:
http://heebmagazine.com/i-was-anne-frank-for-halloween/20467
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:15 (eleven years ago) link
Ooh, sorry! Spoiler in the url!
ugh, heeb magazine
― Mordy, Friday, 20 July 2012 00:30 (eleven years ago) link
Even I have laughed at the occasional tasteless Anne Frank joke. But there's a big difference between whispering these things among close friends and reifying them in public. That goes for her article as well. Ok, so she had paranoid thoughts about her holocaust survivor grandfather. She's probably not the first Jewish person to have such thoughts. She could forget about them. Or talk to a therapist or someone close to her. But instead she decides that they make a great foundational premise for an article. I mean that kind of defines the difference between a person who is mentally healthy and one who isn't in my book.
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Friday, 20 July 2012 00:42 (eleven years ago) link
A great foundational premise for an article... about BREAKING BAD.
― Mordy, Friday, 20 July 2012 00:53 (eleven years ago) link
It's classic holocaust survivor guilt, there's nothing really to see here. She can't deal with the notion that her family somehow survived, and those conflicted feelings get expressed as guilt and self-loathing.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Friday, 20 July 2012 07:35 (eleven years ago) link
what tablet editor let that get through!
― max, Friday, 20 July 2012 11:01 (eleven years ago) link
Since I was 12 I’ve had an unappealing, didactic distrust of people with the extreme will to live.
for god's sake, what did she think she was doing with the word "didactic" here
― funny-skrillex-bee_132455836669.gif (s1ocki), Monday, 23 July 2012 05:05 (eleven years ago) link
http://mindymeyer4senate.com/
― Mordy, Friday, 3 August 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
what
― "Pffft" --buddha (silby), Friday, 3 August 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
http://mindymeyer4senate.com/issues.html
"Diva of the District"
― Will Chave (Hurting 2), Friday, 3 August 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
"We endorsed her," said Jerry Kassar, chairman of Brooklyn's Conservative party.
― joaquin haus-partizan (s1ocki), Friday, 3 August 2012 17:03 (eleven years ago) link
Pink elephants, huh.
― tokyo rosemary, Saturday, 4 August 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not even Jewish but I am fighting my knee-jerk response that she is Making Jews Look Bad so she should Knock It the Fuck Off.
― quincie, Saturday, 4 August 2012 22:32 (eleven years ago) link
^^^which response itself may be antisemetic, yes? I srsly struggle with that.
See also my feelings about David Brooks.
― quincie, Saturday, 4 August 2012 22:33 (eleven years ago) link
quincie, I am fighting my "girl, lay off the heavy makeup/self tanner" response because I don't really want the discussion about a female politician to be primarily about her looks. But on the other hand, oh honey, no.
― tokyo rosemary, Sunday, 5 August 2012 00:04 (eleven years ago) link
It isn't her looks that are getting me defensive; it is the Web site as a whole! Her picture could be totally absent; it would have me cringing at the same level. You could even obliterate the pink and replace her with a dude and blue--I will still be all "please do not bring the Jews into this."
― quincie, Sunday, 5 August 2012 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
it has been my experience that kids who move away from frum (esp chassidic brooklyn) world to secular world tend to gravitate towards low culture stuff - popular radio, reality shows, kinda tacky clothing, etc. i'm sure there's some way to unpack this re performance of class + accessibility (gateway to classier stuff requires education, acculturation, etc that frum community doesn't provide). i'm making big generalizations obv, but i remember frum kids getting into hard drugs, serious drinking problems, etc while "bad" modern orthodox kids idk go to business school or show up to class stoned.
― Mordy, Sunday, 5 August 2012 00:23 (eleven years ago) link
how do these kids reconcile "I are Orthodox" vs. their electoral Web sites?
― quincie, Sunday, 5 August 2012 05:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.kveller.com/blog/parenting/aly-raisman-our-golden-jewish-gymnast/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:16 (eleven years ago) link
awww, nice.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
idk if this interests anyone here but my review of Stromberg's new Jewish Images in Comics:http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/160558/how-anti-semitic-comics-got-replaced/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 15:56 (eleven years ago) link
nice article
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
have you ever been accused of arty-semitism
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
this is getting posted by a bunch of my fb friendshttp://www.yiddishcursesforrepublicanjews.com
― Mordy, Friday, 24 August 2012 02:47 (eleven years ago) link
^^^^ LOL, just came here to post that!
"May you be reunited in the world to come with your ancestors, who were all socialist garment workers."
― see inlaycard for details (suzy), Friday, 24 August 2012 12:20 (eleven years ago) link
is thread supposed to be sung to the tune of Hey Jude?
― Sweet Yin Yang ☯ (Latham Green), Friday, 24 August 2012 13:47 (eleven years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_response_to_The_Forty_Days_of_Musa_Dagh
unrelated: i made a shiva call tnite
― Mordy, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 03:22 (eleven years ago) link
Did not know of the book.
Sorry you had to make a shiva call
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 03:27 (eleven years ago) link
crazy book, right? i had never heard of it
― Mordy, Wednesday, 29 August 2012 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
we took a long car trip today and ended up playing a bunch of debbie friedman for the baby off of spotify. i decided to make a playlist of jewish music tonight (mostly friedman, carlebach, maybe brandwein, and some other stuff like yidcore, dylan, zorn) that would be good stuff + children friendly. then i discovered all of the super frum music that is now available on spotify from like avraham fried and mordechai ben david. so i made a playlist of a bunch of song that i remember from being in yeshiva. i wouldn't listen to the thing all the way through, but if you're curious about what some (mostly lakewood/litvak) super religious jewish ppl listen to: http://open.spotify.com/user/mordys/playlist/3ZpWfyOgKpYrjHElizIcOD
most (but not all) of this stuff has a primary life being played at religious weddings (and actually one heuristic for how good a new single is is how good it is to dance to it at a wedding -- eg Avraham Fried albums The Greatest Wedding Album Vols. 1 + 2). "Just One Shabbos," "Shabbos in Gilo," "The One" and "Not For Sale" are all in English. ("Not For Sale" is MBD's protest song about protecting Israel from iirc Mormon missionaries!) The "Shiru Lamelech" song is a copella bc Lev Tahor is one of a dozen bands that make music for religious Jews to listen to during the sefirah - a period of the year when they refrain from listening to instrumental music bc they are mourning the destruction of the temple.
only other notable song is Oif Simches "dor mitzuyan" ("an excellent generation") that is taken from lyrics by aviv geffen on the really gorgeous "Achshav Me'oonan" when he sings "anachnu dor mezzuyan" ("we're a fucked up generation"). even tho the new lyrics are positive, the song still had a stigma from the original lyrics and it was kinda "bad boy" music (by yeshiva standards). anyway, i included aviv geffen version at the end of the playlist even tho it does not fit theme for comparison.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 00:35 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/139247/Rosh-Yeshiva-Pasuls-Witness-at-Chupah-Because-of-iPhone.html
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
google tells me about Israeli "kosher phones" and UK Orthodox Jewish ones(you can make calls but not text...because. Oy veh. read the link, not sure I agree, not that I expect logic)
http://www.theworld.org/2012/01/kosher-phones-orthodox-jews/
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/154153
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 21:21 (eleven years ago) link
x-post re zorn) that would be good stuff + children friendly.
I thought John Zorn just made noisy free-jazz that I did not think of as child-friendly (although I know he embraces and emphasizes his Jewishness at times).
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 21:23 (eleven years ago) link
some of his more klezmer compositions are not so noisy jazz and more kid friendly- I can't think of good examples off hand but Masada stuff has some tracks I wanted to choose from
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 21:33 (eleven years ago) link
I played kid-friendly Jonathan Richman songs for my kid when he was young. Jonathan's Jewish although the songs might not be reflective of Askenazi or Sephardic Jewish musical elements
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:00 (eleven years ago) link
I kinda liked this book re Jewish culture:
The Heebie-Jeebies at CBGB's: A Secret History of Jewish PunkSteven Lee Beeber
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:02 (eleven years ago) link
The ‘kosher phone,’ however, can be dialed without technically connecting thus avoiding Shabbat prohibitions.
wt eff does this even mean
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:13 (eleven years ago) link
i've heard that the circuit is always open iirc so that you just pick up the phone and it connects in case of emergencies? i don't really know or understand the technical details. those 'kosher' phones tho are not the same as the ones in the other links
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:15 (eleven years ago) link
i dunno where i was reading about kosher phone but i think in principle it is always doing the active part of the dialing process by itself without human intervention, and the way you dial a number is more of an interruption in activity than being actively active?
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:18 (eleven years ago) link
i'm not sure how it would work on a cell phone though. the image in my head was of a dude taking a rubber plunger and inserting it in an array of blinking lights in a timed sequence in order to key in the number.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
i think you just lift the receiver. you don't press any buttons.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:22 (eleven years ago) link
maybe it's oldtimey operators: "operator get me KLONDIKE 555"
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 4 September 2012 22:25 (eleven years ago) link
curmudgeon, I read that book. I think the author was going for a verrrry broad definition of Jewish ("Italian-American girls from NY! They're practically Jewish!!")
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 4 September 2012 23:40 (eleven years ago) link
He was, and I still enjoyed it and liked hearing him talk about it at a panel discussion.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 5 September 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
my friend wrote this + it's really goodhttp://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/162190/mayan-apocalypse-good-for-the-jews/
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 September 2012 22:21 (eleven years ago) link
thats rad
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Friday, 7 September 2012 12:31 (eleven years ago) link
yeah that is a nice piece
― catbus otm (gbx), Friday, 7 September 2012 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
wasn't sure whether this would be a better fit for israel thread, but i think butler talking about her jewish education is much more interesting than her opinions about the matzif:
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/08/judith-butler-responds-to-attack-i-affirm-a-judaism-that-is-not-associated-with-state-violence.html
― Mordy, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 15:55 (eleven years ago) link
i got this email today:
http://www.chabad.org/mychabad/email/article_cdo/aid/1957247
As America finds itself in the throes of a highly contentious election season, Jews worldwide are gearing up for an "election" of a different sort: the Rosh Hashanah "Coronation" of the Almighty as King of the Universe (September 16-18).By attending synagogue, offering up prayers, hearing the sounds of the Shofar and partaking of the holiday festivities, we will not only be "casting our votes" in favor of G‑d's renewed Sovereignty over the world and Providence over our lives, we will also be submitting our "petitions" that He inscribe us and our loved ones for a happy, healthy and sweet New Year.
By attending synagogue, offering up prayers, hearing the sounds of the Shofar and partaking of the holiday festivities, we will not only be "casting our votes" in favor of G‑d's renewed Sovereignty over the world and Providence over our lives, we will also be submitting our "petitions" that He inscribe us and our loved ones for a happy, healthy and sweet New Year.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 14:45 (eleven years ago) link
― ask morbs if he is better off than he was 4 days ago (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 14:48 (eleven years ago) link
who is the opposition
― max, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/beliefs/Theology/Suffering_and_Evil/satan.shtml maybe?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 21:11 (eleven years ago) link
im voting nader
― max, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
In the months leading up to the filter’s implementation, student publications revealed that YU Arevim, an anonymous student group of self-proclaimed pornography addicts, had been heavily invested in the issue. In an article published in The Commentator on December 9, 2011, Benjamin Abramowitz wrote that the YU Arevim approached the administration with the idea of a network-wide installation of Covenant Eyes – an effort to sidestep the idea of a filter while still allowing for some level of accountability online. The suggestion was shot down by RIETS faculty as being too “big brother.” Indeed, Rabbi Reiss insisted that under no circumstances would the new filtration system store information about individual users’ Internet viewing history.
http://www.yucommentator.org/2012/09/new-internet-filters-block-pornographic-content-in-dorms/
― Mordy, Thursday, 13 September 2012 00:58 (eleven years ago) link
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/260188_10151149030049114_44017926_n.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 14 September 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
i like this one too
http://blog.magnes.org/opensourceblog/wp-content/gallery/postcards/92-34-40_1.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 14 September 2012 14:32 (eleven years ago) link
That is nice
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 15 September 2012 14:22 (eleven years ago) link
are hey jews fasting yom kippur or probably not?
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/561815_341610702600005_418624447_n.jpg
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 03:34 (eleven years ago) link
dunno maybe. Probably going to go to Kol Nidre tomorrow night though because our cantor chanting it in her gorgeous soprano provides me with pretty much all the spiritual sustenance I need for a year.
― the physical impossibility of sb in the mind of someone fping (silby), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 03:38 (eleven years ago) link
I am being a bad non-Jew this year. Didn't get my act together to get tickets; probably not going to fast but what the hell, maybe I will? Seems dumb to fast without doing anything else to observe.
I would like to do the crumbs in the river thing. Name is escaping me at the moment. . . last year, when I took down my crumbs, someone had already been there with crumbs! This made me so happy. I felt, like, at one with a community, somehow.
― quincie, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 13:27 (eleven years ago) link
tashlikh
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
Yes! I remembered that it started with a "t"
― quincie, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 13:28 (eleven years ago) link
you can do tashlikh up until hoshana rabba (7th day of sukkot) - i haven't done it yet either
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 13:46 (eleven years ago) link
I fast in sympathy with my wife, but when she gives in - and she always does - I give it up.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 14:11 (eleven years ago) link
Did not know that. I knew of the organized tashlikh that many synagogues do at Rosh Hashanah time. I'm gonna fast and go to a reform service (that does a surprisingly large amount of prayers in Hebrew)
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 14:14 (eleven years ago) link
that's a x-post
"So to greet a Jew on Yom Kippur say, “G’mar chatimah tovah” – “May you end up with a good inscription.” If that’s too much of a mouthful, “G’mar tov,” – “Finish well,” works just fine. "
I have never said "G'mar tov"
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 21:29 (eleven years ago) link
Or recall it being said to me
hey jews - easy fasts to those fasting and g'mar chasimah tovah
― Mordy, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 21:49 (eleven years ago) link
^^^ditto from me!
― quincie, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 23:41 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.etsy.com/listing/105423148/menorah-lodge-jewish-frat-picture
― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Monday, 1 October 2012 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
Anyone have any suggestions on good histories of the Jews? I'm looking for something that isn't overly mythic/heroic -- it doesn't have to be lefty revisionism, but I don't want a story of a magical people who are destined to rebuild the temple either. I'm also open to multiple books covering different periods, as long as they're not too micro (single century, specific ghetto, etc.). I guess I'm mainly in something that addresses (1) the migration of Jews and (2) the evolution of the body of religious and cultural traditions we have come to think of as "Judaism"
― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:36 (eleven years ago) link
this is what you're looking for; enjoy:http://www.amazon.com/History-Jewish-People-Hayim-Ben-Sasson/dp/0674397312
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:38 (eleven years ago) link
after that, figure out exactly what time period you want to learn about bc jewish history is really long and closer readings of particular eras are more valuable than broad survey imho
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:39 (eleven years ago) link
also maybehttp://www.amazon.com/Social-Religious-History-Wittmayer-Baron/dp/0231088566/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349901606&sr=8-1&keywords=salo+baron
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
Is this any good?
http://www.amazon.com/Jews-History-50th-Anniversary-Edition/dp/0451529405/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1349901418&sr=8-4&keywords=history+of+the+jews#_
― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:40 (eleven years ago) link
this is new and historiographic: http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Past-Interpreters-Jewish-History/dp/0691139288/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349901677&sr=1-1&keywords=prophets+of+the+past
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:41 (eleven years ago) link
i don't know it. probably not? i mean, it might be interesting to read but it's not known in the field afaik
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
what you're asking for is kinda gargantuan - like asking for a good history of western civ
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 20:44 (eleven years ago) link
i have that ben sasson book!
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Wednesday, 10 October 2012 23:39 (eleven years ago) link
but I don't want a story of a magical people who are destined to rebuild the temple either.
what's funny is that i can recommend a book if you're looking for a story of magical people who are destined to rebuild the temple, too.
http://www.amazon.com/Berel-Wein/e/B001JSFBTC <-- the king of jewish hagiography, he also has an audio history series
― Mordy, Wednesday, 10 October 2012 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
damn i wanna see this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT-wLYeeSRE
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
mordy did you ever see an israeli movie called LATE MARRIAGE
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 16 October 2012 19:34 (eleven years ago) link
no - should i?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
yeah, it's great. not relevant to anything in particular being talked about here, but a really really strong and overlooked film. it's on netflix streaming if you have that.
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Tuesday, 16 October 2012 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
i'll def check it out
― Mordy, Tuesday, 16 October 2012 19:41 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2012/10/jewish_jocks_franklin_foer_on_his_new_book_about_the_greatest_jewish_athletes.html
― Mordy, Tuesday, 23 October 2012 21:10 (eleven years ago) link
Renee Richards, Bobby Fishcer and Howard Cosell? Oy vey
― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Tuesday, 23 October 2012 21:15 (eleven years ago) link
i'll probably get it tho. i liked foer's soccer book.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 23 October 2012 21:18 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/10/mitt_romney_and_the_gop_s_plans_to_woo_florida_jews_from_barack_obama_appear.html
― Mordy, Thursday, 25 October 2012 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
http://blog.lareviewofbooks.org/post/34232799613/from-james-deen-vs-the-nebbishes-men-in-porn
― pretty even gender split (Eazy), Thursday, 25 October 2012 01:19 (eleven years ago) link
There's something strange about the syntax of calling someone a "pornographic performer." It makes it sound as if his performances are pornographic, whether or not they're in the context of porn.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 October 2012 02:49 (eleven years ago) link
another scene ends with Deen ejaculating onto a sheet of matzah clenched in two women’s teeth.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 October 2012 02:53 (eleven years ago) link
Wait, what thread is this? Is this I Love Jewish Fetish Porn?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 October 2012 02:54 (eleven years ago) link
I grew up in a jewish neighborhood (hassidim) and my parents are stick in the mud atheists from christian descendance, however, for some reasons I've been drawn to judaism/jewish culture all my life. I was 7, somebody asked my religion and I answered judaism, because well, I don't know, back then it made sense, I visited synagoges and thought they were beautiful places and eated jewish food and found it delicious. I've made short films about the hassidim community around me and I read a lot on jewish culture. Recently I visited the Ghriba synagoge in Tunisia, and it made very emotional. Yet, I'll never be jewish really, which lead to a lot of confusion, guilt and grief. There. I needed to confess that.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 October 2012 19:13 (eleven years ago) link
whoa.
which van horn street does your name refer to?
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Thursday, 25 October 2012 20:53 (eleven years ago) link
the one that goes from CDN to the Mile-End. I'm a Outremont kid.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 October 2012 20:58 (eleven years ago) link
xpost Reminds me of the hilarious Maurice Sendak anecdote:
I mean, we lived next to the Sicilians and I had a real - it sounds like coy conceit, but it's a fact. I had a real confusion because right across the hall from us was my best friend at one place we lived, Carmine, and his sisters and brothers and his huge mother and huge father. And I used to run across the hall because they had un-Kosher food, which was much better, much better than Kosher food because it was - it was pasta. It was great Italian cooking. And they laughed, and they drank wine, and they grabbed me, and I sat on their laps, and they had a hell of a good time. And then you come back to my house and you have this sober cuisine and not so rambunctious family life. And I really did have a confusion that Italians were happy Jews, that they were a sect.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 October 2012 21:04 (eleven years ago) link
nice
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Friday, 26 October 2012 05:37 (eleven years ago) link
http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/files/ap_racial_attitudes_topline_09182012.pdf
The survey was conducted during the first week of September. It asked 1,071 random adults, “Do you happen to know the religion of each of the following people? If you don’t know, you can mark that too.”The results for President Barack Obama are as follows:Protestant — 28%Catholic — 5%Mormon — 0%Jewish — 18%Muslim — 10%Other religion — 2%No religion — 35%Don’t know — 2%Refused/Not Answered — 28%
The results for President Barack Obama are as follows:
Protestant — 28%Catholic — 5%Mormon — 0%Jewish — 18%Muslim — 10%Other religion — 2%No religion — 35%Don’t know — 2%Refused/Not Answered — 28%
― Mordy, Monday, 29 October 2012 16:16 (eleven years ago) link
wait, people thought he was those religions or people of those religions knew his religion?
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, 29 October 2012 16:52 (eleven years ago) link
people thought he was those religions
― Mordy, Monday, 29 October 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
some people think barack obama is jewish?
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, 29 October 2012 16:54 (eleven years ago) link
ehh not really buying that
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Monday, 29 October 2012 16:55 (eleven years ago) link
unless there been some ZOG cable show recently that completely overwhelms all the plausible accounts of obama's submission to allah
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Monday, 29 October 2012 16:57 (eleven years ago) link
you're watching ZOGTV
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, 29 October 2012 16:58 (eleven years ago) link
zomg
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Monday, 29 October 2012 17:00 (eleven years ago) link
MyZog
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Monday, 29 October 2012 17:02 (eleven years ago) link
http://forward.com/articles/165637/how-big-was-obamas-jewish-win/
― Mordy, Thursday, 8 November 2012 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
Still higher than "white people" #s
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 8 November 2012 19:44 (eleven years ago) link
Jewish Federation of Greater Washington has partnered with the NY Federation and the Jewish Federations of North America (JFNA) in partnership with Jewish Voluntary Organizations Active in Disaster (JVOAD). JFNA's Emergency Committee authorized $500,000 for immediate humanitarian needs of Hurricane Sandy victims in the New York metropolitan area and New Jersey. The funds will be used for cash disbursements, food, shelter, clean-up kits and other basic necessities.
Wonder if this is a good and efficient way to help
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 8 November 2012 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
Significantly higher!
― Mordy, Thursday, 8 November 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
JudaismFrom The Onion Book Of Known KnowledgeJudaism, world religion whose central tenet implores believers to stick together because someone is currently trying to kill them. Jewish theology is rooted in the covenant between God and the children of Israel, who are commanded by the Torah never to get too comfortable, as there are already plans in motion for their murder and the murder of their families. Since Jews never know exactly who is out to assassinate them, when it will happen, or how, Jewish tradition includes the constant retelling of previous atrocities as a means of maintaining group preparedness and of terrifying the younger generation into internalizing the very real possibility of having to grab their siblings at a moment’s notice and hide out in the woods until it’s safe to escape on foot. Although Judaism consists of several denominations with different conceptions of spirituality and culture, all Jews affirm the core doctrine of always sleeping lightly because someone who wants to shoot them in the head is closing in.
Judaism, world religion whose central tenet implores believers to stick together because someone is currently trying to kill them. Jewish theology is rooted in the covenant between God and the children of Israel, who are commanded by the Torah never to get too comfortable, as there are already plans in motion for their murder and the murder of their families. Since Jews never know exactly who is out to assassinate them, when it will happen, or how, Jewish tradition includes the constant retelling of previous atrocities as a means of maintaining group preparedness and of terrifying the younger generation into internalizing the very real possibility of having to grab their siblings at a moment’s notice and hide out in the woods until it’s safe to escape on foot. Although Judaism consists of several denominations with different conceptions of spirituality and culture, all Jews affirm the core doctrine of always sleeping lightly because someone who wants to shoot them in the head is closing in.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 01:22 (eleven years ago) link
damn
― paula boradwell (crüt), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 01:25 (eleven years ago) link
Pretty much not a joke!
― Fieri-brand sausages into my and your ready holes (silby), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 03:23 (eleven years ago) link
O_O whoa
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 03:28 (eleven years ago) link
oof
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 04:06 (eleven years ago) link
that actually depressed me a lot more than it made me laugh
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 04:07 (eleven years ago) link
Just don't let your guard down, dude. They're going to get you.
Serious note, but I have heard more than a few philosophical debates in Jewish circles that the religion was fundamentally broken when it shifted post-Holocaust into "I will survive" mode (complicated in no small part by the relate founding of Israel). That is, there are many great tenets of Judaism, and the focus on survival in the face of adversity has obscured some of them. Me, I'm not terribly religious, but I like the surviver aspect. As I've always told people, it doesn't matter how serious I am or am not about Judaism. When they come again, they're going to come for me, no matter how hard I protest. If I likely pass the standard for persecution no matter what I do, then I might as well tenaciously, righteously ready myself. /paranoia.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:09 (eleven years ago) link
The Holocaust didn't invent this survival trope. The Haggadah (~300 CE) says:
This is what has stood by our fathers and us! For not just one alonehas risen against us to destroy us, but in every generation they riseagainst us to destroy us; and the Holy One, blessed be He, saves usfrom their hand!Go forth and learn what Laban the Aramean wanted to do to our fatherJacob. Pharaoh had issued a decree against the male children only,but Laban wanted to uproot everyone - as it is said: "The Arameanwished to destroy my father; and he went down to Egypt and sojournedthere, few in number; and he became there a nation - great and mightyand numerous."
Go forth and learn what Laban the Aramean wanted to do to our fatherJacob. Pharaoh had issued a decree against the male children only,but Laban wanted to uproot everyone - as it is said: "The Arameanwished to destroy my father; and he went down to Egypt and sojournedthere, few in number; and he became there a nation - great and mightyand numerous."
I remember reading a version of the Haggadah when I was a child that gave a long list of times 'they' have risen to destroy the Jewish people. If you really want to feel depressed... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:23 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, the Holocaust didn't invent it - people have been killing Jews for millennia. Even happy ol' Purim is about that. But the Holocaust made Jewish survival a global precept, cemented by Israel, whose existence then and now barely has anything to do with any "promised land" stuff and everything to do with "we're sorry, here's a country for you."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:37 (eleven years ago) link
Or, you know, not "everything" to do with that, but a lot, for sure.
or as the joke goes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGS0bE1abQ
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:39 (eleven years ago) link
(I thought it would show the name of the song in the embed - for those who don't want to clickthru to the Yidcore song, it's "They Tried to Kill Us, They Failed, Let's Eat.")
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 14:40 (eleven years ago) link
I actually have a feeling the "they always try to kill us" narrative is slightly exaggerated for the purposes of having a narrative. I would bet that actually we've made out pretty well considering we were a stateless minority for thousands of years. I almost want to write a revisionist history about this, except such things just play into the hands of the people who always want to kill us.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:26 (eleven years ago) link
Which reminds me: did somebody here read The Invention of the Jewish People?
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:29 (eleven years ago) link
by Shlomo Sand.
Yes, I found it incredibly offensive.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:37 (eleven years ago) link
Care to explain why? A lot of my friends are suggesting it to me and I find the premise iffy.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:40 (eleven years ago) link
xxp: great real name!
― how's life, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
And his brother, Kovick Sand
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:46 (eleven years ago) link
lol, my humor gets so much jewier in the jew thread. Glad we have this safe space.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:47 (eleven years ago) link
There are a lot of book reviews that deal with the problems of the book (this is a good one: http://www.tnr.com/article/books-and-arts/indecent-proposal). Specifically I was troubled by his attempt to describe Jewish peoplehood as rising out of Zionism, thus suppressing/denying a long history of Jewish identity that stretches way back before Zionism (and that continued unrelated to Zionism in contemporary times).
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
thank you!
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
It's also very historically problematic. He writes about a lot of fields that he has no expertise (or language skills) in. It's really a political book, not a historical one, and politically it's about deemphasizing a Jewish connection to Israel.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:57 (eleven years ago) link
you mean emphasizing?
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:58 (eleven years ago) link
Also, the Khazar thing is total bullshit: http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 15:59 (eleven years ago) link
No, I mean that Sand is arguing that the historical Jewish community of Israel is a different peoplehood from the contemporary Jewish community because they aren't 'real' Jews but Khazar converts.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:00 (eleven years ago) link
I always thought that whole line of reasoning was bullshit on both sides. The Khazar theory has been debunked, but it's also irrelevant. I don't find an ancient genetic connection to Israel to be a valid justification for zionism.
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, you don't really need genetic connection in order to create a country or any other type of organization. I really don't get the argument.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:19 (eleven years ago) link
I think the genetic justification is less important than other historical relationships to Israel; I was just pointing out that the Khazar theory is explicitly an attempt to erase a Jewish connection to Israel. Much more important in my eyes is that my ancestors have been praying three times a day for over a thousand years:
Return in mercy to Jerusalem Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem. Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day. Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.
The Jewish connection to Israel is emphasized throughout almost every major Jewish religious text - the liturgy, the Torah, the Talmud, the Haggadah ("next year in Jerusalem") -- Zionism arose out of this already existing context. The innovation of Zionism was that the Jewish people should take the initiative to build a Jewish State in Israel (as opposed to waiting for the Messiah), and up until the foundation of Israel in '48 numerous Jewish groups (including Chabad) were against founding a Jewish State. But there a long history of Jews yearning for Israel ("If I forget thee Jerusalem, let my right hand forget its cunning."), not to mention an unbroken Jewish presence in Israel from the Second Temple era until today.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
you also don't need Jewish genes to be Jewish!
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
In other words, I don't think anyone has seriously made a genetic argument for Zionism. But Sand is trying to make a [false + offensive] genetic argument against it.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:21 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy that's reasonable except that (1) other religions can make equally or similarly strong claims to Israel and (2) there's no modern (or any?) historical precedent for transplanting people to another continent and forming a new nation based on that sort of thing
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
I agree that there is no historical precedent for the Jewish return to Israel. It was an ahistorical event.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:25 (eleven years ago) link
American countries perhaps?
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:28 (eleven years ago) link
actually I guess you could make an imperfect analogy to liberia
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:29 (eleven years ago) link
The almost two thousand year gap between the destruction of the Second Temple and the founding of the modern state of Israel probably means that there are no real analogues in history.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:30 (eleven years ago) link
'there was historical precedence' isn't really a moral argument
― iatee, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:31 (eleven years ago) link
not saying it is
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 16:34 (eleven years ago) link
I would bet that actually we've made out pretty well considering we were a stateless minority for thousands of years.
I'd say "despite being" vs. "considering we are". A lot of the traits and professions people affiliate with Judaism - from an emphasis on education to becoming bankers, doctors and lawyers or whatever - I believe stems historically from all those centuries Jews were denied things like land rights. With no land, Jews went to the cities, where they were forced to pursue professions other than, say, farming.
This could all be BS, of course.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 19:30 (eleven years ago) link
recent relevant slate article says:
By combining a very thorough look at the historical record with new economic and demographic analyses, the authors summarily dismiss a great many of the underlying assumptions that have produced theories around Jewish literacy in the past. Where many tied the Jewish move into professional trades to the European era when Jews were persecuted, Botticini and Eckstein bring forward evidence that the move away from the unlettered world of premodern agriculture actually happened a thousand years earlier, when Jews were largely free to pursue the profession of their choice. And where so many have simply taken as a given universal literacy among Jews, the economists find that a majority of Jews actually weren't willing to invest in Jewish education, with the shocking result that more than two-thirds of the Jewish community disappeared toward the end of the first millennium.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 19:47 (eleven years ago) link
yeah I thought that was a pretty inneresting theory
― iatee, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 19:50 (eleven years ago) link
It's hinted at in that article (which seems to emphasize Jewish education, rather than educated Jews), but it didn't hurt that Europe and much of the rest of the world persecuted the bulk of its Jewish population either onto the trains or over to the United States, a country lacking the ingrained anti-semitism (Judaism as a capital offense) of the Old Country that was also conveniently at the apex of its reputation as an anyone-can-make-it meritocracy, heightened by the post-war boom. Certainly Hollywood made room, too. Maybe education wasn't unique to Jews, but educated Jews seemed uniquely positioned to take their skills to the new world. But who knows. Half of my 1st generation family back when were professionals, the others worked in laundromats and bars.
I wonder - and have no idea what the answer is -if American Jews and Jews elsewhere are driven toward the same stereotypical professions.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 20:07 (eleven years ago) link
In France and Canada, yes. In Tunisia, less so.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 20:08 (eleven years ago) link
Be funny if all 10 Tunisian Jews were doctors or lawyers. Or Hollywood moguls.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 20:12 (eleven years ago) link
i think it was something like 5 lawyers and and their mothers.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
the stereotype of moroccan jews is that they're all hairdressers
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 21:40 (eleven years ago) link
I'd watch that sitcom
― Fieri-brand sausages into my and your ready holes (silby), Wednesday, 21 November 2012 21:43 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/23/world/europe/spain-citizenship-process-eased-for-sephardic-jews.html
A Sephardi friend on fb asked, "our family was expelled in 1492, and has since lived in and assimilated to other countries, how do we 'prove' it?"
― Mordy, Friday, 23 November 2012 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
Is there a strong incentive to go back to Spain?
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 23 November 2012 15:41 (eleven years ago) link
maybe if you really want an EU passport?
― Mordy, Friday, 23 November 2012 15:43 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.asianescapes.com/gallery2/d/41785-1/Tapas+Logo.jpg
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Saturday, 24 November 2012 22:53 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/dec/06/is-there-a-jewish-gene/
― Mordy, Sunday, 25 November 2012 18:40 (eleven years ago) link
happy channukah!
― Mordy, Sunday, 9 December 2012 00:44 (eleven years ago) link
You too! My folks mailed me candles and one of those Chabad menoras stamped from a piece of aluminum that we have had forever.
― wongo hulkington's jade palace late night buffet (silby), Sunday, 9 December 2012 00:56 (eleven years ago) link
making latkes right now
― iatee, Sunday, 9 December 2012 01:11 (eleven years ago) link
Latkes last night, and again for breakfast this morning with lox. Happy Channukah!
― quincie, Sunday, 9 December 2012 16:20 (eleven years ago) link
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577750_306051092828154_316822184_n.jpg
― Mordy, Sunday, 9 December 2012 19:05 (eleven years ago) link
<3
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 9 December 2012 20:14 (eleven years ago) link
happy Channukah everyone!
omg this new lipa schmeltzer music video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjgtapxOT6g&feature=player_embedded
― Mordy, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:25 (eleven years ago) link
Highly recommend the Bittersweet Lenny's RIPA from He'Brew (second one in that lineup).
― nickn, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
i picked a RIPA up on thursday! haven't tried it yet but i've heard good things
― Mordy, Monday, 10 December 2012 02:56 (eleven years ago) link
Oh my at the Lipa video.
Cool Piamenta cameo.
― tokyo rosemary, Monday, 10 December 2012 05:22 (eleven years ago) link
my brother is making a channukah party tnite and i agreed to make a seasonal playlist for him. it's not done yet but it's here:http://open.spotify.com/user/mordys/playlist/60DiQXAOU3TCiK3gSsqem9
― Mordy, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 19:15 (eleven years ago) link
The overwhelming smell of latke grease made my daughter throw up a couple of nights ago. Latkes have been banned from the house for the remainder of Chanukah.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
You'll have to go Israeli style and buy jelly donuts
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 20:42 (eleven years ago) link
no channukah playlist is complete without this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNNVl7TTfxs
(doesn't appear to be on spotify sadly)
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 20:59 (eleven years ago) link
preparing a mega latke-fest for friday.
picking up 6-lb brisket and cooking it tomorrow night for the next day's festivities.
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 21:08 (eleven years ago) link
journalist/photographer I know did this:
http://narrative.ly/2012/12/heretic-hasidim/
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 December 2012 02:36 (eleven years ago) link
the brisket is amazing so far but i somehow sliced it WITH the grain what was i THINKING
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Friday, 14 December 2012 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
D: D: D:
― wongo hulkington's jade palace late night buffet (silby), Friday, 14 December 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
mandatory 30-day suspension of tribal privileges imo
― wongo hulkington's jade palace late night buffet (silby), Friday, 14 December 2012 03:00 (eleven years ago) link
you really dropped the torah on that one huh
― drunk 'n' white's elements of style (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 December 2012 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
to be fair, the way it was shaped, it would be pretty hard to slice it against (it was long and narrow-ish, with the grain running width-wise
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Friday, 14 December 2012 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
NO
EXCUSE
immediate penalty box, recuse yrself from carving duties for one (1) year
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 14 December 2012 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.scribd.com/doc/116827947/Jewish-War-Heroes-1
― Mordy, Friday, 14 December 2012 15:42 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20764559
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 December 2012 02:59 (eleven years ago) link
http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/mnemosyne/astrolabes_poster.pdf
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 December 2012 05:25 (eleven years ago) link
i have to read this http://www.amazon.com/dp/0812244664/ref=tsm_1_fb_lk
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago) link
Who knew? I never saw that highly touted French film Last year at Marienbad either.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 January 2013 19:32 (eleven years ago) link
Holy shit I have to read that too. I've actually spent quite a bit of time in Carlsbad aka Karloy Vary
― Author ~ Coach ~ Goddess (s1ocki), Sunday, 6 January 2013 00:48 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWtsC8uYtew
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 14:06 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy if I come up to Philly can we meet and do super jewish things?
― quincie, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:28 (eleven years ago) link
definitely! come during the weekend and i'll introduce you to the most delicious lamb cholent w/ kishka and pastrami that you ever tasted
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:31 (eleven years ago) link
Let's make a list of all the things to do in addition to cholent (I am fascinated by cholent tbh):
1) eat at all the delis2) visit Important Jewish Places (tbh I don't know what these are outside of Israel)3) mahjong?4) light some candles, eat some challah5) show up an hour late to services6) I am dying to go to a bris and a bar/bat mitzvah; why don't I know any Jewish babies/pre-teens?
― quincie, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
7) watch Jewish films8) listen to awesome Jewish music9) argue a lot?
― quincie, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
my family is going to have a bris here in the next few weeks :)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:35 (eleven years ago) link
Whoa wait did you form another babby???? A boy babby?
― quincie, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:36 (eleven years ago) link
not mine - my brother's and not here yet so b'sha'a tova!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 17:38 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.tmz.com/2013/01/16/chabad-russian-government-federaltion-books-manuscripts-sanctions/
― Mordy, Thursday, 17 January 2013 01:46 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/breaking-news/latest-jewish-population-data-show-gains-manhattan-loss-suffolk-0
The survey, based on interviews with 6,000 self-identified Jews in 2011, found that the Jewish population in the Bronx, which had plummeted 45 percent from 1991 to 2002, increased 20 percent in the last nine years. It found also that Brooklyn has enjoyed a steady increase of Jews over the years, increasing from 371,000 in 1991 to 561,000 in 2011.Although Chasidic Orthodox Jews are concentrated in a few neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Modern Orthodox Jews are spread out across the metropolitan area. Nassau County has the most Conservative Jews, but their numbers are continuing to slip throughout the area, as are those of Reform Jews.
Although Chasidic Orthodox Jews are concentrated in a few neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Modern Orthodox Jews are spread out across the metropolitan area. Nassau County has the most Conservative Jews, but their numbers are continuing to slip throughout the area, as are those of Reform Jews.
― Mordy, Friday, 18 January 2013 17:33 (eleven years ago) link
The Bronx, huh. Does that basically mean Riverdale?
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Friday, 18 January 2013 18:02 (eleven years ago) link
I think so.
― Mordy, Friday, 18 January 2013 18:08 (eleven years ago) link
having just read my daughter the story of Purim, sheesh that Onion bit about persecution being central to Judaism is really true isn't it, it's the thread behind so many of our holidays
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 18 January 2013 18:09 (eleven years ago) link
this book is pretty much ground zero for jewish persecution porn:
http://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/9/2085/large-A%20Time%20to%20Weep_pu.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 18 January 2013 18:42 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZUjvjP3fVc
― Mordy, Saturday, 26 January 2013 14:49 (eleven years ago) link
So that's DbG next to Ray right?
― (panda) (gun) (wrapped gift) (silby), Saturday, 26 January 2013 19:01 (eleven years ago) link
yeah
― Mordy, Saturday, 26 January 2013 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
ils ont chanté ensemble
― zero dark (s1ocki), Sunday, 27 January 2013 07:19 (eleven years ago) link
UK singer Jessie Ware is Jewish
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 January 2013 17:27 (eleven years ago) link
hey jews, a friend asked me to put together a wedding playlist for their upcoming intimate jewish wedding. i'm making a playlist atm that i'm going to clear with her, but i wanted to include some variety. anyone have ideas for songs - either explicitly jewish, or appropriate for a jewish wedding (ie: good to dance to) that might be worth including? extra points is they're easily locatable on spotify
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 18:55 (eleven years ago) link
how deep is your two live jew collection?
― zero dark (s1ocki), Monday, 28 January 2013 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
as deep as the spotify collection (i think they have all of their albums)
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 19:08 (eleven years ago) link
I guess Black-Eyed Peas are just popular for 13 year-old Jews at Bar and Bat Mitzvah parties.
Seriously, isn't Etta James doing "At Last" an appropriate slow dance song for any type of wedding reception.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 January 2013 19:35 (eleven years ago) link
I can't think of any pop songs that are explicitly jewish
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 28 January 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago) link
Slow dance songs less useful if men and women are not allowed to mix at the event--though Mordy doesn't say whether this is the case, it would def shoot down a lot of music if it was!
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 28 January 2013 19:38 (eleven years ago) link
yes, no mixed dancing
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
Oh, intimate ORTHODOX Jewish wedding. Is klezmer allowed?
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 January 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago) link
yes, i'm including some klezmer
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 19:42 (eleven years ago) link
i haven't yet determined if kol isha is okay or not
play the bit from the Fiddler wedding where someone invents feminism
― Instagram Llewyn Davis (silby), Monday, 28 January 2013 19:45 (eleven years ago) link
x-post--Sounds like you better ask whether they oppose having women voices. I don't want to see an article (or do I) "DJ Mordy thrown of out Wedding reception for playing woman singer"
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 January 2013 20:03 (eleven years ago) link
lol i already asked. just waiting to hear back.
― Mordy, Monday, 28 January 2013 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
Or play all women singers because fuck it. Probably not good for the reception tho.
― lets just remember to blame the patriarchy for (in orbit), Monday, 28 January 2013 20:04 (eleven years ago) link
hey has anyone here seen Sylberberg's "Our Hitler" and if so is it worth sitting through?
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 28 January 2013 23:20 (eleven years ago) link
a friend of mine wrote this about his experiences converting to orthodox judaism and being gay - i thought it was pretty moving: http://hiphopactivist.com/politics/an-open-letter-to-yeshiva-world-news/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 30 January 2013 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
i don't care what this rabbi says, you can't keep kosher by eating pork:http://portland.thephoenix.com/food/151086-jews-wrestle-with-pork
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:45 (eleven years ago) link
lol. I mean okay you made some dietary laws for yourself, but they aren't the old laws.
(I don't keep kosher personally, always struck me as silly)
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 31 January 2013 17:48 (eleven years ago) link
Unlike just about every other aspect of any religion and its rules?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 31 January 2013 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
~whoa~
― zero dark (s1ocki), Thursday, 31 January 2013 19:06 (eleven years ago) link
Don't know what to make of your whoa, just saying that once you/I/anyone starts cherry-picking religious rules, or especially dismissing any particular one as silly - and I agree that keeping kosher is an extreme example of a rule with no basis beyond "because I said so" - there's no good demarcation as to where you should stop. Don't keep kosher - do you keep the Sabbath? Don't keep the Sabbath - do you keep the High Holy Days? Etc. I identify as Jewish, but it's honestly something I've struggled with over the years, the fact that I can barely make it through any service or ceremony without questioning the contradictions, things I disagree with, the inconsistencies and the horrors ("God said to Abraham, kill me a son...."). Every religion is rife with prima facia silliness, things that don't make sense or don't bear scrutiny/logic, but that doesn't mean they lack value. Fortunately, a lot of Judaism seems to encourage this sort of stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 31 January 2013 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
hey yiddish speaking jews, is this wrong?
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2013/02/02/news/web_photos/koch_mensch042410--480x180.jpg
its usually spelled 'mensch' but is 'mench' an acceptable alternate spelling
― max, Saturday, 2 February 2013 13:32 (eleven years ago) link
I don't think I've ever seen it spelled "mench." Not sure if even has anything to do with proper transliterated Yiddish or no, it's part of the common vernacular. Like putz, which would never be spelled putts, or chutzpah, which would never be spelled xootspaw.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 2 February 2013 14:41 (eleven years ago) link
seems wrong
― zero dark (s1ocki), Saturday, 2 February 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago) link
generally i'm pretty relaxed about transliteration but mensch has been used enough in english that it doesn't set off my browser spell check and mensh does
― Mordy, Saturday, 2 February 2013 16:05 (eleven years ago) link
mench* does too
― Mordy, Saturday, 2 February 2013 16:06 (eleven years ago) link
Plus Morbs and others would say that he was not one, no matter how you spell it
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 2 February 2013 16:07 (eleven years ago) link
morbsh
― zero dark (s1ocki), Saturday, 2 February 2013 16:13 (eleven years ago) link
so i just found out action bronson is an mot???
― Mordy, Sunday, 10 February 2013 02:06 (eleven years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:48 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah this is a pretty classic Jewish thing, but it bothers me nonetheless. I think it's very hard in the modern world to stay committed to a "way" (if you will) that doesn't proclaim itself as the one true way, and we partly remain connected to it out of guilt and fear. There have been times when I've genuinely asked myself "why have this identity at all?" In the end I think it just boils down to having some familiarity and sense of security in a chaotic world, maintaining a connection to what I grew up with, etc.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:01 (eleven years ago) link
Which is why I don't care that much about proclamations about what is or isn't "real" judaism. Although I still can't stomach a guitar-playing rabbi. That's just wrong.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:03 (eleven years ago) link
yeah guitar-playing is the cantor's purview
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:19 (eleven years ago) link
as a cantor's son I take offense to that
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
you shouldn't! I don't know if I've been to a shul service where the cantor didn't play guitar
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:33 (eleven years ago) link
well maybe a couple. But the cantor I grew up with plays guitar. And is a really talented soprano.
daddy don't play guitar
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:36 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZPRVmsA3hs
― Mordy, Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:39 (eleven years ago) link
Have you been to the Nat'l Yiddish Book Center, Mordy? It's on the campus of my erstwhile college and is very cool.
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Sunday, 10 February 2013 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
I haven't been, but when I was in grad school I borrowed a bunch of their materials through the mail. They've got an amazing collection.
― Mordy, Sunday, 10 February 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
The genius of Judaism is that it transfers via mom. The reason 99.9% of anybody is the religion they are is because when they were born their parents decided to raise them that way, but in Judaism you're Jewish at birth whether you want to be or not. Is that true for many/any other religions? Certainly accounts for its cultural (rather than strictly religious) traits.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 February 2013 16:12 (eleven years ago) link
Doesn't account for cantorial guitar heroics
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 10 February 2013 17:19 (eleven years ago) link
Our cantor plays guitar. Though the best family service night was backed by this awesome almost accidentally surf-rock quartet.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 10 February 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago) link
So like does yr guy make a power grab now or what
― the right to beef at (darraghmac), Monday, 11 February 2013 11:44 (eleven years ago) link
what the
― Welcome to my world of proses (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 February 2013 18:30 (eleven years ago) link
i know, i saw that!
― Mordy, Monday, 11 February 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago) link
See, that's yet another reason why I say fuck an Israel. My wife wondered out loud if this would be a good year to take the kids to Israel, and I told her there were a million places I'd want to go to a first time before I ever went back there.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2013 19:02 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/156760/Analysis:-Why-the-Frum-Community-Lost-A-Seat-in-the-New-York-City-Council.html
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 February 2013 01:18 (eleven years ago) link
Charles Katz is an attorney practicing criminal law in New York, and above all a “god-fearing Jew”.
― zero dark (s1ocki), Thursday, 14 February 2013 01:30 (eleven years ago) link
woo http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/after-delay-yiddish-writers-papers-will-be-made-available-to-public/
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 February 2013 16:03 (eleven years ago) link
Lew, who was White House chief of staff while Obama’s campaign was pummeling Romney over his pay and taxes, received a $945,000 bonus in January 2009 after a brief tenure at Citigroup — just as the bank announced huge losses and took a taxpayer bailout. Lew also invested $56,000 in a Citigroup venture-capital fund registered in the Cayman Islands — registered in the very building, in fact, that Obama labeled “the largest tax scam in the world.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-senators-turn-the-tables-on-caymans-investor-jack-lew/2013/02/13/d01cac80-7631-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_story.html?hpid=z2
An orthodox Jew, and likely next US Treasury secretary, whom I think is not a mensch
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 14 February 2013 16:22 (eleven years ago) link
i think obama just called registering in the cayman islands "the largest tax scam in the world" not the particular investment lew was involved in. that paragraph makes it ambiguous.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 February 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago) link
Sounds like there was something special about the building.
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Thursday, 14 February 2013 16:43 (eleven years ago) link
Oh gotcha. I had heard about it on NPR and thought it was referring specifically to Cayman Island investments.
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 February 2013 16:47 (eleven years ago) link
Grassley also asked Lew to justify investing his money in one of the 12,000 businesses based in Ugland House, a five-floor building in Grand Cayman.
Obama frequently mentioned Ugland House on the campaign trail in 2008. Baucus held a hearing on it that year, saying that the place had “a lot to do with tax evasion” and the $345 billion gap “between the taxes legally owed and the taxes timely paid.”
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 14 February 2013 17:01 (eleven years ago) link
"This is the most Jewish thing I've ever seen in_my_life."
And later
"So this director's not Jewish but he obviously wishes he was. Everyone else who made this must be Jewish." - my friend's 60-something year old mother, about four minutes into "Moonrise Kingdom"
― Cunga, Sunday, 17 February 2013 06:59 (eleven years ago) link
I saw Clueless tonight and was enjoying the not-that-crypto-Jewishness of it all.
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Sunday, 17 February 2013 07:31 (eleven years ago) link
I've been meaning to revisit that movie. Haven't seen it since it was in theaters.
― Cunga, Sunday, 17 February 2013 09:21 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.davidstuff.com/opinion/taxes-ugland-big.jpg
lest you think it a five-story building that's just really, really long
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Sunday, 17 February 2013 13:16 (eleven years ago) link
profile of my childhood synagogue!http://www.jewishreviewofbooks.com/publications/detail/a-tale-of-two-synagogues
― Mordy, Monday, 18 February 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago) link
Mordy will you tell this thread sometime how you went from a childhood in an egalitarian Conservative congregation to almost becoming a charedi Rabbi to being on the top of the Super Hexagon leaderboards? It sounds like quite the journey.
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 02:52 (eleven years ago) link
i'm too busy trying to find out what comes next!!!
btw i am very excited to be celebrating purim this year from friday night to sunday night. i intend to drink prolifically. hopefully not as prolifically as when i was 14 and got so drunk at a synagogue purim party (that inasense were playing at!) that i threw up in my parent's car and had to clean it up in the morning.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 02:55 (eleven years ago) link
serious answer: my parents became baal teshuva when i was a kid which is also why i started out in a schechter school and wound up in r' moshe feinstein's yeshiva.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 02:57 (eleven years ago) link
not even MusicBrainz has heard of that band xp
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
they later renamed themselves as soul farm
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 03:00 (eleven years ago) link
this seems like the more extensive bt wiki page:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_teshuva_movement
still playing purims http://www.soulfarm.net/pages.php?title=events
― Women, Fire, and Dangerous Zings (silby), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 03:04 (eleven years ago) link
i'm sure there are still 14 year old kids throwing up at their purim parties
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 03:08 (eleven years ago) link
i went to solomon schecter day school grades 1-3
― zero dark (s1ocki), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 14:28 (eleven years ago) link
um wat
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/17614_502148296498359_7419293_n.jpg
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 22:28 (eleven years ago) link
I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the hamantaschen with Peeps filling we made in college.
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 19 February 2013 22:30 (eleven years ago) link
recently realized that all of the schools in The Instructions are real (incl. one by this name).
― queeple qua queeple (Jordan), Tuesday, 19 February 2013 23:03 (eleven years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LM_wsV2F5YA/USSIVnSXU0I/AAAAAAAAWDk/uXn6WPg_ma8/s1600/hamantash2.png JEWS I AM TOTALLY PSYCHED FOR BIG WEEKEND DRINKING
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 19:18 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sWoZJGCTQ
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 20:15 (eleven years ago) link
was that really necessary
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 20:34 (eleven years ago) link
Der Pilsberger Tyygboychik
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 20 February 2013 20:54 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wfzdxPNIxY
― Mordy, Friday, 22 February 2013 16:40 (eleven years ago) link
that's about how I remember it yeah, but it's too bad that they left out the part about Vashti's sexy naked dancing
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Saturday, 23 February 2013 02:02 (eleven years ago) link
or rather refusal to do sexy naked dancing
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Saturday, 23 February 2013 02:03 (eleven years ago) link
freilichen purim!!!!!!
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 February 2013 01:06 (eleven years ago) link
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/cleanplatecharlie/L
― Mordy, Monday, 25 February 2013 02:58 (eleven years ago) link
What are you doing on this thread? It's the Oscars! Jews be in LA.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 25 February 2013 03:07 (eleven years ago) link
Ah it was purim this past weekend? That explains the 2 very tipsy hasid boys in the pub bottle shop wearin foamdome beer hats and buying cans of VB.
― a kissed out red popemobile (Trayce), Monday, 25 February 2013 08:50 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/nyregion/moshiach-oi-merges-orthodox-judaism-and-punk-rock.html?ref=music
― curmudgeon, Monday, 11 March 2013 15:06 (eleven years ago) link
debating whether to attempt seder at our own home this year. never done it before...
― Donkamole Marvin (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 11 March 2013 15:49 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21847517
would eat
― Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 01:35 (eleven years ago) link
http://forward.com/workspace/assets/images/articles/seder-12131.jpg
http://forward.com/articles/173508/how-is-the-white-house-seder-different-from-all-ot/
― Mordy, Friday, 22 March 2013 03:18 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21848736
Israel's first Ethiopian Jewish Miss Israel winner
― curmudgeon, Friday, 22 March 2013 16:18 (eleven years ago) link
we making a combination of my zeida's and nach waxman's brisket for seder 2.0 this year
― zero dark (s1ocki), Saturday, 23 March 2013 01:15 (eleven years ago) link
I have eaten so much Texas brisket in the past week that I'm not sure I can do brisket ever again. . .
― quincie, Saturday, 23 March 2013 01:16 (eleven years ago) link
Man I should make brisket
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Saturday, 23 March 2013 02:02 (eleven years ago) link
On the topic of Texas and brisket: spouse really wants me to write to Kinky Friedman to pitch a Texas Haggadah + recipe book, feature smoked brisket and Texified traditional fixins, plus a spin on the seder plate (and the Haggadah, obv).
― quincie, Saturday, 23 March 2013 02:08 (eleven years ago) link
quincie says I should share this with you:
matzah nails
― tokyo rosemary, Saturday, 23 March 2013 03:05 (eleven years ago) link
mmm brisket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wpzLKo3diWk
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 March 2013 13:33 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2139164,00.html
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 March 2013 15:38 (eleven years ago) link
oops, i meant to post that to the anti-semitism thread.
― Mordy, Sunday, 24 March 2013 15:39 (eleven years ago) link
the video is great tho. shalom sesame ftw!
http://i.imgur.com/QvVLQ1C.jpg
What manner of deliciousness be this???
― Leeena Dunham (Leee), Monday, 25 March 2013 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
chametz
― Mordy, Monday, 25 March 2013 01:27 (eleven years ago) link
jewish vaginas
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 01:39 (eleven years ago) link
Well, then, I'm a fan of Jewish vaginas.
― Leeena Dunham (Leee), Monday, 25 March 2013 01:48 (eleven years ago) link
aren't we all?
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 01:53 (eleven years ago) link
wallotaschen
― tokyo rosemary, Monday, 25 March 2013 02:48 (eleven years ago) link
next level ^
― Mordy, Monday, 25 March 2013 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
There were mad queues at all the local continental deli's yesterday in prep for pesach. I'd not realised it was coming up, the local shops were insanity!
― a kissed out red popemobile (Trayce), Monday, 25 March 2013 03:02 (eleven years ago) link
who's ready for the annual posting of my Passover ditty?
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
me me me
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 25 March 2013 03:38 (eleven years ago) link
HERE IT COMES!!!
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 03:41 (eleven years ago) link
sung to the chorus of "Eye of the Tiger":
!!!!
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 03:42 (eleven years ago) link
Gotta get some tomorrow. My Catholic in-laws (with whom we are staying for another week and a half) will be very confused.
― quincie, Monday, 25 March 2013 03:43 (eleven years ago) link
x-post--left-over hamentashen
― curmudgeon, Monday, 25 March 2013 04:05 (eleven years ago) link
There was a shop selling matza-patterned ties and boxer shorts down the road. I wanted to buy a tie but wasnt sure if it was cool.
― a kissed out red popemobile (Trayce), Monday, 25 March 2013 04:17 (eleven years ago) link
― quincie, Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:43 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
wait till they hear what it's made with
― zero dark (s1ocki), Monday, 25 March 2013 05:35 (eleven years ago) link
omg lol
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Monday, 25 March 2013 06:24 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bppafE_BuY
― Mordy, Monday, 25 March 2013 15:09 (eleven years ago) link
super cool article about different old haggadahs:http://seforim.blogspot.com/2012_04_01_archive.html
― Mordy, Monday, 25 March 2013 23:51 (eleven years ago) link
Russian Social Democratic Worker’s Party Pesakh Haggadah According to a New Mode
― my god i only have 2 useless beyblade (silby), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 01:34 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jr4LSdALxpI
happy pesach
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 02:50 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jr4LSdALxpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jr4LSdALxpI
gah, I don't know why that won't embed. anyway, enjoy.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 02:51 (eleven years ago) link
DId someone already post this?http://mobile.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/low_concept/2006/04/the_twominute_haggadah.b.html
― a kissed out red popemobile (Trayce), Tuesday, 26 March 2013 10:53 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/03/31/berlin_jew_in_the_box_ehibit_stirs_controversy.html
step one. put a jew in a box.
― Mordy, Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
better than tilda swinton if you ask me
― i've a cozy little flat in what is known as old man hat (Hurting 2), Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:28 (ten years ago) link
i wish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimouna celebrations were more common
― Mordy, Sunday, 31 March 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
from fb:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/479881_571694366182740_1908504065_n.jpg
a friend translated the hebrew text below the pic:
What is the Mimuna about?My grandmother told me that in Morocco, Passover was the one week that Muslims and Jews were apart. All year, they would sit together, eat drink, drink, talk, laugh, and raise their children together. However, on Passover, because it was forbidden for Jews to eat chametz at their neighbors' they would separate a bit. Therefore, they came up with the custom of Mimuna, so that their neighbors would understand that the reason they didn't get together over the course of the week was because of the holiday - and not because they didn't want to be friends. It was important for them to demonstrate their love and closeness, and therefore they made a large feast that all of the neighbors were invited to. It is a celebration of hospitality, of neighborliness, and of coexistence.
My grandmother told me that in Morocco, Passover was the one week that Muslims and Jews were apart. All year, they would sit together, eat drink, drink, talk, laugh, and raise their children together. However, on Passover, because it was forbidden for Jews to eat chametz at their neighbors' they would separate a bit. Therefore, they came up with the custom of Mimuna, so that their neighbors would understand that the reason they didn't get together over the course of the week was because of the holiday - and not because they didn't want to be friends. It was important for them to demonstrate their love and closeness, and therefore they made a large feast that all of the neighbors were invited to. It is a celebration of hospitality, of neighborliness, and of coexistence.
― Mordy, Sunday, 31 March 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
i think this is pretty good at speaking to an issue that isn't always represented accurately: http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-outreach-revolution/
In off-the-record interviews with outreach workers associated with Chabad, Aish HaTorah, Modern Orthodox organizations, and community kollelim, I received the same response, sometimes offered with a shrug, sometimes with strong conviction: If the Jews whom I have taught and mentored become more active in their Reform or Conservative synagogues, they say, or in their federations or Israel-oriented organizations, or in their willingness to marry another Jew and raise a Jewish family of any kind, I consider that to be a success.A good many non-Orthodox leaders probably would respond to this flat assertion with incredulity, for it has become an article of faith that Orthodox outreach is cult-like and intentionally designed to raid the non-Orthodox sectors of the Jewish community. With a few exceptions, this is simply false. In fact, what is actually happening is far more interesting: Kiruv has become a powerful vehicle for re-engaging Jews with the non-Orthodox sectors of the community. Leading members of Conservative and Reform synagogues attend Chabad educational programs or community kollel study sessions and then return to their home congregations, probably as better-informed Jews. Individuals who have had little contact with organized Jewish life are turned on to Judaism by kiruv workers and in many cases find their way into non-Orthodox synagogues or secular organizations.Their numbers are not negligible. Though no one has collected definitive figures, a quick back-of-the-envelope estimate yields eye-opening results: Assuming that there are between 5,000 and 7,000 kiruv workers today and each interacts annually with an average of no more than 100 non-Orthodox Jews (a conservative figure given the size of most Chabad centers and the popularity of kiruv events sponsored by other organizations), the collective impact of Orthodox outreach may touch between a half million and 700,000 Jews each year, rivaling the impact of the Conservative and Reform movements, and in the majority of cases complementing and enhancing the work of those important movements.
A good many non-Orthodox leaders probably would respond to this flat assertion with incredulity, for it has become an article of faith that Orthodox outreach is cult-like and intentionally designed to raid the non-Orthodox sectors of the Jewish community. With a few exceptions, this is simply false. In fact, what is actually happening is far more interesting: Kiruv has become a powerful vehicle for re-engaging Jews with the non-Orthodox sectors of the community. Leading members of Conservative and Reform synagogues attend Chabad educational programs or community kollel study sessions and then return to their home congregations, probably as better-informed Jews. Individuals who have had little contact with organized Jewish life are turned on to Judaism by kiruv workers and in many cases find their way into non-Orthodox synagogues or secular organizations.
Their numbers are not negligible. Though no one has collected definitive figures, a quick back-of-the-envelope estimate yields eye-opening results: Assuming that there are between 5,000 and 7,000 kiruv workers today and each interacts annually with an average of no more than 100 non-Orthodox Jews (a conservative figure given the size of most Chabad centers and the popularity of kiruv events sponsored by other organizations), the collective impact of Orthodox outreach may touch between a half million and 700,000 Jews each year, rivaling the impact of the Conservative and Reform movements, and in the majority of cases complementing and enhancing the work of those important movements.
― Mordy, Monday, 8 April 2013 21:54 (ten years ago) link
The history of song & dance Hava Nagila movie doc is at the West End Theatre in W. DC
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/44219/hava-nagila-reviewed-the-story-of-americas-favorite-nigun-told/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 26 April 2013 14:13 (ten years ago) link
my jew b-day is tnite/tmmrw :)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 02:54 (ten years ago) link
chag sameach mordy
― resulting paste of mashed cheez poops (silby), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 06:36 (ten years ago) link
wait no
yom huledet sameach
as we would sing in a linguistically suspect fashion to the happy birthday song at shul when I was small
http://jewishmorocco.blogspot.com/
blog for fans of Jewish Moroccan music
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 7 May 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
happy jewish bday!
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:16 (ten years ago) link
http://www.israelhebrew.com/wp-content/uploads/happy-birthday-in-hebrew1.jpg
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
mazels on your "j-date"
― we're up all night to get (s1ocki), Tuesday, 7 May 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/hashtagjewbrag
― THIS IS NOT A BENGHAZI T-SHIRT (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 May 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
http://forward.com/articles/176823/reform-rabbi-urges-hebrew-union-college-to-reconsi/
― Mordy , Friday, 17 May 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
:/
man some of those comments are whoa
― quincie, Friday, 17 May 2013 20:52 (ten years ago) link
I am still not a jew, but I felt this thread may enjoy that a local group was able to register jewishfoodfair.com for their event this weekend. Why would this domain not be in high demand?
― tweeship journey to 51 (mh), Friday, 17 May 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
― quincie, Friday, May 17, 2013 3:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah. but i guess i embrace a third position: the sooner we all assimilate and become secular the better.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 17 May 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
i just mean assimilate to secularism, not give up all traces of jewish cultural practice & tradition btw
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 17 May 2013 22:45 (ten years ago) link
last I checked even Reconstructionist Rabbinical College had a quiet policy of not admitting people partnered with non-Jews, though it's possible that that's been revisited since they merged with JRF.
― resulting paste of mashed cheez poops (silby), Saturday, 18 May 2013 00:31 (ten years ago) link
hm, still extant in the catalog, "An applicant who is married to or in a committed relationship with a non-Jewish partner will not be admitted to the rabbinical program."
― resulting paste of mashed cheez poops (silby), Saturday, 18 May 2013 00:35 (ten years ago) link
I had no idea about these policies, and they make me really sad. Also pissed, and embarrassed.
― quincie, Saturday, 18 May 2013 00:48 (ten years ago) link
2 questions for hey jews:
1. should i attend this event?
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/960125_10151614880369795_36079337_n.jpg?oh=fd4259584e298c1c530f31ed7e759966&oe=519EFEE8&__gda__=1369385540_406c143860cdd4f5210ffa12c12c300e
2. should i liveblog it???
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 May 2013 23:50 (ten years ago) link
just made myself some matzah brei with maple syrup. <3
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Sunday, 9 June 2013 01:10 (ten years ago) link
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/birthright-alumni-marry-later-and-are-more-likely-to-marry-jewish.premium-1.529422
His latest findings show that among Birthright participants involved in interfaith marriages, 13 percent had spouses who underwent formal conversions. Among members of the non-participant group, formal conversions were almost non-existent. In general, Birthright participants are far more likely to marry within the faith than are non-participants. The latest research shows that 73 percent of participants in the program ultimately marry other Jews, as compared with just 50 percent among non-participants.
― Mordy , Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:00 (ten years ago) link
correlation vs. causation
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:15 (ten years ago) link
dramatic either way
― Mordy , Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
over-the-top bar mitzvahs, discuss:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=g-ByhUDUllM
― HOOS next aka won't get steened again (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ByhUDUllM&list=TLMyknLhRCbP8
― HOOS next aka won't get steened again (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
My Bar Mitzvah was 30 kids and a DJ on the upper floor of a family friend's Italian restaurant. No one danced.
substituting tackiness for tradition
― Mordy , Wednesday, 14 August 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
tackiness has now become the tradition for some
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
tacky bar/bat mitzvah parties are the jewish community's own personal quid/ag.
― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
At my bar mitzvah, I specifically asked the DJ to play the single edit of "Pump of the Volume," and the jerk played the 12".
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 18:46 (ten years ago) link
Has there been any notable late converts to Judaism? I mean, apart from, say, Sammy Davis, Jr.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
Catherine Zeta-Jones! Kate Capshaw!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
so whose kid is this kid anyway
― HOOS next aka won't get steened again (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
Isla Fischer
― Mordy , Wednesday, 14 August 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
Ivanka Trump who apparently covers her hair.
if u want to read something really really good:http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/08/19/interview-with-prof-jacob-wright-of-emory-university/
― Mordy , Monday, 19 August 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
Why would the basic features of the Torah have assumed literary shape from the late 8th century and thereafter? It is because this is when the states of Israel and Judah faced momentous political challenges.The Assyrian armies conquered the kingdom of Israel in 722 BCE. The earliest biblical authors realized that if Israel were to survive this political catastrophe, it would be in a new form: as a people without a king. Now the kings of Israel may have the ones who originally promulgated accounts of Yhwh’s great deeds, such as the Exodus story. After all, Israel’s kings would have seen themselves as the representatives of the state’s chief deity, as was the case in directly neighboring lands. Yet what sets the pace for the formation of the biblical tradition is a demotion of the king and a shift of attention to the people as a whole (“all Israel”) under the aegis of its God. Judahite authors, already before their subjugation to Babylon in 587 BCE, inherit this “demotic” project from Israel.The Torah is the beginning of a longer history (stretching from Breishit to Melakhim) that tells how Israel emerged and existed for a long time as a people before its kings established centralized states. The history ends with the demise of these states, affirming the central message: All Israel is in direct covenant with its God. Its kings are, accordingly, not essential to its identity and its survival. What’s determinative is the nation’s corporate adherence to the conditions of the covenant (the mitzvot).This message, which pervades the Torah and the rest of the history, is the reason why the Torah owes its penultimate form to the 8th-6th centuries, the time when Israel and Judah ceased to be ruled by native kings.
The Assyrian armies conquered the kingdom of Israel in 722 BCE. The earliest biblical authors realized that if Israel were to survive this political catastrophe, it would be in a new form: as a people without a king. Now the kings of Israel may have the ones who originally promulgated accounts of Yhwh’s great deeds, such as the Exodus story. After all, Israel’s kings would have seen themselves as the representatives of the state’s chief deity, as was the case in directly neighboring lands. Yet what sets the pace for the formation of the biblical tradition is a demotion of the king and a shift of attention to the people as a whole (“all Israel”) under the aegis of its God. Judahite authors, already before their subjugation to Babylon in 587 BCE, inherit this “demotic” project from Israel.
The Torah is the beginning of a longer history (stretching from Breishit to Melakhim) that tells how Israel emerged and existed for a long time as a people before its kings established centralized states. The history ends with the demise of these states, affirming the central message: All Israel is in direct covenant with its God. Its kings are, accordingly, not essential to its identity and its survival. What’s determinative is the nation’s corporate adherence to the conditions of the covenant (the mitzvot).
This message, which pervades the Torah and the rest of the history, is the reason why the Torah owes its penultimate form to the 8th-6th centuries, the time when Israel and Judah ceased to be ruled by native kings.
― Mordy , Monday, 19 August 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
cool. i find this stuff fascinating
― socki (s1ocki), Monday, 19 August 2013 21:50 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00vFNzlXmNU
― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 27 August 2013 17:26 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theonion.com/articles/jews-to-celebrate-rosh-hashasha-or-something,4532/
― Mordy , Tuesday, 3 September 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/143410/rosenzweig-yom-kippur-conversion
― Mordy , Wednesday, 11 September 2013 04:24 (ten years ago) link
presented essentially w/out comment except that even the highest intermarriage percentages were smaller than i would've guessed:http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/will-your-grandchild-be-jewish-chart-graph.htm
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
idgi
what are they using to denote Jewish identity - strictly genetics?
fwiw I married a non-Jew, we're raising our children in I guess what falls under the "Secular" grouping there (ie we don't belong to a temple but we celebrate the holidays and identify as Jewish, when they're old enough for Hebrew school I will probably look around for options etc.)
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
i don't know what they're using for that particular study by the two metrics i've seen commonly used are self-identification or halachic judaism (matrilineal descent)
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
It's obvious that that "study" is using "intermarriage = non-Jewish children" as an assumption which is blatantly false.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link
That's just clear from the numbers.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
Or at least it's assuming a pretty low rate of "Jewish" children to intermarried couples.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
yeah I don't really understand it, it looks like an intermarried couple that has one kid actually only has "one half" of Jewish child and then if they intermarry their kids are automatically not Jewish... I dunno this runs counter to my experience with intermarried couples, there isn't this strict algorithm involved.
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
it's also worth noting, at least, that the authors of the study are not demographic researchers by trade, although I'm sure they're bright people, and that if you read their actual article it's pretty clearly agenda-driven and thus requires a grain of salt. Also, their assumptions that birthrates will remain constant are belied by their own statements that birthrates have recently shifted.
Antony (Chanan) Gordon is a Sir Abe Bailey Fellow (1988) and Fulbright Scholar(1989) who graduated with a Masters in Law from Harvard Law School (1990). Mr. Gordon was a SeniorVice President at Morgan Stanley until the beginning of 2001 when he left to launch his own firm and hedge fund.
Richard M. Horowitz received his MBA from Pepperdine University in California. Mr. is the President of Management Brokers Insurance Agency, and Chairman of Dial 800 L.P. Mr. Horowitz also serves on the Board of Triotech (OTC) as well as numerous non-profit organizations. (Copyright 2007)
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
what the hell is a masters in law anyway
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
ah ok he was a foreign lawyer who got an LLM, he is apparently from south africa
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:47 (ten years ago) link
I think a more interesting question, and a really hard one to answer about whether you will have Jewish grandkids is "why do we care?" I'm not asking that sarcastically or smugly, I just feel like it's the question no rabbi ever addresses in the annual haranguing high holiday sermons. Like why do we care if there are Jews in 300 years? Why do we care if there are reform, conservative, or "secular" Jews in 300 years? I mean even I will admit that I do in a certain sense care about this, but I'm not entirely sure why.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
I worry more about the species as a whole than my particular tribe
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
plus I figure there will always be a few of us around just out of sheer orneriness
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
can you imagine how insufferable The Last Jew would be
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
I care a lot about having Jewish grandchildren. It's near the top of the list of things I care about.
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
A rabbi with whom I have studied told me that it is her policy NOT to convert a person in the case where it would create an intermarriage (i.e. someone like me, married to a non-Jew). I'm like WTF, you net one for the Jews!
Another rabbi with whom I have studied (and who currently leads a LGBT-oriented congregartion) has zero problem performing same-sex marriages, but only if both spouses-to-be are Jewish. No same-sex intermarriage!
― quincie, Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
Discuss.
― quincie, Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
Any explanation for why it matters for the Jews to continue to exist requires discussing the Torah, mitzvot and religion. If you don't believe in any of those things than you're right to be skeptical about tribal continuity for its own sake.
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
Well I'm not sure I am skeptical, because somehow I do care about it. I mean not to the point that it's more important to me than having happy, healthy, well-adjusted, successful grandchildren, or that I'd rend my clothes if I had non-Jewish grandchildren or anything, but somehow it still seems to matter. So I feel like there is some kind of tribal continuity instinct at work there.
An argument for continuity based in the Torah, mitzvot and religion seems kind of circular.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
well - the origin story of tikkun olam is that the first world that g-d created was the world of tohu - which was kind of a perfect complete world. but it was unable to hold the presence of g-d in it and so it shattered and the sparks fell into the second world that he created -the world of tikkun (repair) aka our world. he gave the jews the torah bc by fulfilling the will of g-d by doing the mitzvot they can elevate the sparks and repair the world, and it's only through repairing an imperfect world that g-d's presence can finally dwell below (dirah b'tachtonim) -- more here if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohu_and_Tikun -- so acc to this (kabbalistic/chassidic/gnostic) interpretation jews have a special role to fulfill in the world by doing the mitzvot and their continuity is required for g-d's plan to make the world a dwelling place for his presence.
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
also tho i love being jewish and it's one of the most important things to me in my life and i love teaching my children about jewish holidays. d came home from chabad preschool today jabbering about the sukkah and when we got to her bubbe + zeide's house she ran out to their already built sukkah to play. it's such a joy to see and i would be so sad if one day that was all gone.
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
― Mordy , Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:00 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i remember seeing this a couple of years ago and reading a whole load of analysis on it. it's rather misleading because it looks like the ultra orthodox ends up swamping reform and conservative in the long term but it fails to take into account the huge interdominational switching rate from orthodox. i think something like less than half of ppl raised orthodox stay orthodox and instead become conservative/reform/secular, while reform actually has a higher percentage of ppl staying within that denomination of judaism (tho more end up marrying out).
― prolego, Thursday, 12 September 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
the origin story of tikkun olam is that the first world that g-d created was the world of tohu - which was kind of a perfect complete world. but it was unable to hold the presence of g-d in it and so it shattered and the sparks fell into the second world that he created -the world of tikkun (repair) aka our world.
huh I don't think I've ever heard this. v gnostic
― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 12 September 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
oh i found the link
http://www.threejews.net/2008/09/will-your-grandchildren-be-reform.html
loved this blog so much when it was running
― prolego, Thursday, 12 September 2013 20:01 (ten years ago) link
i've personally been raised central orthodox but i'm not going to stay that way, being gay just makes it too problematic and difficult for me. my parents were always obsessed with ensuring my siblings & i marry in (like thx for casually mentioning nice jewish girls 2 me weekly), but they've gone quiet since i came out. tho they've become vocal in supporting reform as ~real judaism~ all of a sudden so i'm taking the hint they'll just be glad i stay observant on some level. would love to eventually settle down with a jewish guy, but that feels pretty needle in a haystack ;_; will have to see where life takes me i guess.
― prolego, Thursday, 12 September 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
oh man yom kippur is Saturday? I was going to figure out someplace to go at the last minute so I could get off work but now I dunno if I'll bother.
Maybe I'll just see if I can sneak in to kol nidre at the reform shul up the street.
― i too went to college (silby), Friday, 13 September 2013 06:30 (ten years ago) link
suck at fasting, tbh
Well, I think this is absolutely going to be the last year I don't go to services on YK -- wife and I decided we're going to join a temple. For me it feels like a betrayal of what I know from growing up not to do it, and for my wife, who was raised atheist in Israel, it's about wanting our kids to learn all the stuff that she learned anyway in regular school.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Sunday, 15 September 2013 00:50 (ten years ago) link
sukkot is definitely one of the best holidays, esp when the weather is nice.
chag sameach!
― Mordy , Wednesday, 18 September 2013 21:50 (ten years ago) link
Looking forward to this being the first holiday that I think K will really "experience" on some level.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 18 September 2013 21:52 (ten years ago) link
next pesach I will actually have a table and therefore I intend to have a kickass seder.
― i too went to college (silby), Thursday, 19 September 2013 04:42 (ten years ago) link
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_O0F5AaJmk4/UkMHXDs59lI/AAAAAAAAZwo/0vZmdMAhWFo/s1600/st4.jpg
― Mordy , Wednesday, 25 September 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
now i sing the title of thread in my head to the tune of the theme song of "the new girl"
― socki (s1ocki), Wednesday, 25 September 2013 20:26 (ten years ago) link
http://forward.com/articles/184795/jews-bound-by-shared-beliefs-even-as-markers-of-fa/
― Mordy , Tuesday, 1 October 2013 04:48 (ten years ago) link
This might not really be specific to Judaism, but I don't know where else to put this.
What do people think of this post? http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/time/
I started thinking of what that post is about with relation to irony and sarcasm. Can what this rabbi says be reconciled with living 'ironically' or being sarcastic? It's one of those things which should be obvious, but I'm kind of in a weird mood today.
Is the post Judaic reductionism or does there seem to be some substance to it?
I just want to get people's perspectives, if they have any on it.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 1 October 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
http://www.buzzfeed.com/christinebyrne/thanksgivukkah
― Mordy , Wednesday, 2 October 2013 23:31 (ten years ago) link
I was just about to post that! Some recipes worth checking out, and wow, t-shirts and stuff too.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 3 October 2013 20:15 (ten years ago) link
Torn between forwarding that along and fuck a Buzzfeed.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 3 October 2013 22:52 (ten years ago) link
Feel a bit bad for sukkotees (is that a word? heh) in my city. cos we have had an awful blast of nasty, gale force wintery weather lately. Cantve been nice sitting out in it.
― taxi tomato or bag tomato (Trayce), Friday, 4 October 2013 00:59 (ten years ago) link
Wait am I to believe that Jews roll their eyes at noodle kugel? Because that is one of my favorite (and one of my first) Jewish foods!
― quincie, Friday, 4 October 2013 02:03 (ten years ago) link
no way. lokshen kugel is delicious.
― Mordy , Friday, 4 October 2013 02:06 (ten years ago) link
Ha! Googled "lokshen kugel" and the first result is from the Shiksa Blog. So appropriate.
― quincie, Friday, 4 October 2013 02:45 (ten years ago) link
one more jew for noodle kugel
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 4 October 2013 04:46 (ten years ago) link
i haven't read this review of the pew survey yet but dr brill always has something brilliant to say so i assume must-read:http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/reflections-on-the-pew-survey/
― Mordy , Monday, 7 October 2013 03:58 (ten years ago) link
just finished reading it. tbph it's gorgeous and everyone here should read until the end bc i think the conclusion is very very beautiful + moving.
― Mordy , Monday, 7 October 2013 04:13 (ten years ago) link
Mordy can u link to the Pew survey referenced?
Always pleased by an M. Kaplan namedrop, as a Reconstructionist from birth.
― i too went to college (silby), Monday, 7 October 2013 19:22 (ten years ago) link
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/chapter-1-population-estimates/
― Mordy , Monday, 7 October 2013 19:37 (ten years ago) link
mordechai kaplan used to learn w/ shlomo carlebach when they were both students in chabad << fun facts
― Mordy , Monday, 7 October 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
^ not true i was confused when i wrote that carlebach learnt w/ zalman shachter who later said:
"I first took acid with [Timothy] Leary," recalled Zalman in his characteristically deep, warm voice. At 81, his demeanor and energy are those of a much younger man. "That was several years before I knew [Richard] Alpert [a.k.a., Ram Das]. And the Lubavitcher Rebbe gave me a bracha (blessing) before I did it".
― Mordy , Monday, 7 October 2013 21:53 (ten years ago) link
ivanka bris pic :)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1399313_10151980035897682_1314361200_o.jpg
― Mordy , Wednesday, 23 October 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
OH NOES THEY CIRCUMCISED IVANKA!
― quincie, Friday, 25 October 2013 02:12 (ten years ago) link
In other news, I was doing that mind-totally-wandering-thing-while-driving-through-the-desert and out of nowhere wondered if you (Mordy) would be upset if your daughters married non-Jews? Personal question and of course tell me to piss off rather than answer, of course.
― quincie, Friday, 25 October 2013 02:14 (ten years ago) link
I care a lot about having Jewish grandchildren. It's near the top of the list of things I care about.― Mordy , Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:04 PM (1 month ago)
― Mordy , Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:04 PM (1 month ago)
according to matrilineal descent any children my daughters had would be jewish; still i'd almost definitely be upset if they married non-jews. nb i feel like jews should be much more lenient about accepting non-jews into the fold and if their spouses wanted to convert and raise the grandchildren jewish that would alleviate any upset i'd have (even a non-orthodox conversion would probably help -esp combined w/ the matrilineal thing). nbx2 obv i wouldn't sit shiva for a child who married a non-jewish spouse (daughter or son), or denounce them or whatever. i'd just be 'upset.'
on a related note, have u seen this? http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/science/ashkenazi-origins-may-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html --
A new genetic analysis has now filled in another piece of the origins puzzle, pointing to European women as the principal female founders, and to the Jewish community of the early Roman empire as the possible source of the Ashkenazi ancestors.The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed, and reinforces the idea that many Jewish communities outside Israel were founded by single men who married and converted local women.
The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed, and reinforces the idea that many Jewish communities outside Israel were founded by single men who married and converted local women.
i try to keep an open mind about how communities, and particularly the jewish community, evolves + persists over time. in 2013 the orthodox (especially in israel, but also in europe, russia, etc) have gotten a kind of monopoly over ritual judaism*, but that hasn't always been the case, and i can't predict the future. i'd want my children-in-law to be jews bc i think that would create a better chance for an affiliation w/ + practice of jewish ritual/tradition for future generations, but i'm not even really stuck on what kind of jews they'd be. i consider myself very ashkenazi (down to my genetic structure) but i don't really care about the survival of ashkenazi jewry as distinct cultural practice. there used to be a time when ashkenazi families didn't want their children to marry into sephardic families - which i obv think is ridiculous.
did u read that kavannah blog post about the pew survey thing i posted above? it had a piece i thought was really lovely:
Rav Soloveitchik distinguished between the Sinai covenant that teaches what a Jew should do and the Patriarchal covenant (Brit Avot) – the “I’ awareness of the Jew. 94% of the Jews in the entire study had that awareness. Rabbi Soloveitchik clearly stated that precedence goes to the Patriarchal covenant. How do we learn about this covenant? Rabbi Soloveitchik answered that we learn through exemplarity; Abraham was kind to strangers and argued for justice.
so some performance of the mitzvot + some self-identification as cohesive group -- i don't want to be dogmatic about how that looks, tho.
* eg if you want to get married in israel and you're a convert, you need a 'reputable' orthodox conversion
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 03:05 (ten years ago) link
Thanks, Mordy! I have a halakha question about matrilineal descent. Lise Meitner, one of my women-in-science heroes, was a Jew who converted to Christianity later in life. She did not have children, but if she did, could they claim Jewish status even though she converted? Does the timing of the birth/conversion matter? What happens to one's Jewishness (halakhally speaking) when one starts believing in the Trinity or gets baptized or publicly renounces his/her Judaism?
Shabbat Shalom!
― quincie, Friday, 25 October 2013 15:09 (ten years ago) link
Halakhically you cannot convert away from Judaism, so her children would still be 100% Jewish.
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
And I'm glad you responded bc I was starting to worry that I tl;dr'd above.
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
On a different note - my wife's cousin's synagogue got tagged by Banksy!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/964181_456811174431156_624066635_o.jpg
The Hebrew says Rambam - aka Maimonidies - whose popular image the sketch is drawn to depict
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
nb maybe a photoshop
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
hahahahaha shop or no, that is nuts
― quincie, Friday, 25 October 2013 15:16 (ten years ago) link
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/366364/Screenshots/ku1z.png
― socki (s1ocki), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:33 (ten years ago) link
i consider myself very ashkenazi (down to my genetic structure)
there's an easy way to figure this out definitively you know
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
nbx2 obv i wouldn't sit shiva for a child who married a non-jewish spouse (daughter or son), or denounce them or whatever. i'd just be 'upset.'
I am confused by this part
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:44 (ten years ago) link
What is confusing you?
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
http://blogs.forward.com/the-shmooze/186192/sex-shop-with-a-mezuzah-on-the-door
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
why wouldn't you sit shiva?
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
I mean, they are still your Jewish son/daughter - you wouldn't sit shiva for one of your dead progeny, just because they married a non-Jew? that seems kind of harsh.
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
Oh, I see. That was a reference to a tradition (now mostly fallen out of practice) among certain Orthodox jews to sit shiva when their children marry gentiles - as if to say that the child is now dead to them. I was saying that I wouldn't sit shiva for them for the marriage.
― Mordy , Friday, 25 October 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
ah! okay gotcha.
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 25 October 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
Were I to convert, I know exactly what I want the mezuzah at my front door to look like. I asked a Jewish friend if this was weird (that I had a strong aesthetic preference for a hypothetical mezuzah) and she said no, "ask any Jewish woman how she would decorate her Christmas tree and she will tell you *exactly* what it would look like."
― quincie, Friday, 25 October 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
So hey I am thinking that I will try to read each week's parsha and then blog it here in under 140 characters or something. Anyone with me? By all means do more insightful parsha commentary; I'm just gonna set the bar reallllllly low for myself.
In other news, I hung out with a tiny Jewish posse tonight (3.5 plus me) talking 'bout Jewish stuff and it was v. fun and gratifying.
― quincie, Saturday, 26 October 2013 06:32 (ten years ago) link
This week is uuuuuugh *googles* Genesis 23:1-25:18.
GO!
― quincie, Saturday, 26 October 2013 06:34 (ten years ago) link
brother gave me a copy of this to read. pretty interesting so far.
― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 29 October 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
aryeh kaplan has a bunch of cool stuff. if you're into it, check out these two volumes too -http://www.amazon.com/The-Aryeh-Kaplan-Anthology-Illuminating/dp/0899068669http://www.amazon.com/The-Aryeh-Kaplan-Anthology-ll/dp/0899068685/
― Mordy , Tuesday, 29 October 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
http://transjews.com
― Mordy , Friday, 1 November 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
pretty much most exciting news of the year to me is that eric andre is jewish + on his next show is making kiddish over wine
― Mordy , Tuesday, 5 November 2013 03:19 (ten years ago) link
"ask any Jewish woman how she would decorate her Christmas tree and she will tell you *exactly* what it would look like."
there is just.... nothing true about this in my experience
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 5 November 2013 03:53 (ten years ago) link
well of course it was hyperbole, but in context it was like "oh, so I am not alone in knowing exactly what tallit I would purchase from that place in Safed were I Jewish"
― quincie, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 04:07 (ten years ago) link
A Yiddishe Momme of Music, Chana Mlotek, Dies at 91 By JOSEPH BERGER Mrs. Mlotek was a sleuth and archivist of Yiddish music whose song collections allowed thousands to imbibe the mirthful and mournful melodies of the shtetl, ghetto and Yiddish theater.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
^RIP Chana. What a curator.
It so happens I came to post on a music-related query, namely: does anyone here have any favorite versions of the song "Erev Shel Shoshanim" that you could recommend? It's a song that my mother cherishes, in part because she strongly associates with my father (who passed away a couple of years ago).
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 16 November 2013 03:00 (ten years ago) link
associates it with my father, that is
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 16 November 2013 03:01 (ten years ago) link
http://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2013/11/27/rabbi-yitzchak-ginsburgh-on-chanukah-and-israelis-in-india/
― Mordy , Wednesday, 27 November 2013 18:50 (ten years ago) link
really liked this piece:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/04/opinion/sunday/german-jewish-and-neither.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 January 2014 04:48 (ten years ago) link
particularly related to the end:
Both the ignorance I had encountered in Laupheim and the philo-Semitism I experienced in Munich had made me feel like an outsider — but each also made me more determined to help in the creation of a German-Jewish identity. Now that my very presence was enough to make some people resentful, however, I grew impatient with the endless complications of being a German Jew. I wanted nothing more than to be seen, finally, as an individual. And so, despite everything I loved about Germany, and unlike so many other German Jews, I decided to leave.
When I first moved to New York, as a graduate student, I hoped that living here would make it possible for me to choose who I wanted to be. In Germany, I always thought twice before mentioning that my ancestors were Jewish: I knew that, once I’d pronounced that fateful word, I would, in the minds of many, be reduced to it. In New York, a city of more than a million Jews, I found that this hardly changed how others saw me.
Being free to construct my own identity has had an unexpected effect: I’ve come to realize that being Jewish is not particularly important to me after all. Sure, I enjoy “Seinfeld” and a whitefish bagel. But is that enough to make me “culturally” a Jew? I’m not convinced. I can see why many other secular, nonobservant Jews — who speak Hebrew, or grew up following Jewish ritual — feel that being Jewish defines them. But defining myself strongly as a Jew when I know so little about religion or ritual would, I believe, cheapen the tradition I would be claiming to invoke.
New York has given me the same liberty it has afforded generations of immigrants: the freedom to be true to myself. In an age of identity politics, we assume that this must mean the freedom to proclaim one’s identity. But, for me, it has just as much to do with the liberty to shed an identity to which I’d long been reduced.
A true New Yorker, E.B. White suggested, is one who has come to the city “in quest of something.” It is because New York is defined as much by its newcomers as by its natives that I hope to spend my life here. My identity is no longer that of a Jew or a German. It is that of a seeker who has found; that of a stranger who has come to be at home; that of, simply and immeasurably, a New Yorker.
I mean, I don't think I'm as otherwise detached from Jewish identity as this guy is, considering how I grew up, but I relate to the idea of wanting more than anything for being Jewish not to be an "issue" all time, even in benign circumstances. In NYC that's genuinely true -- few people here pester you with constant questions about Jews or needle you with just-over-the-line "jokes."
Maybe it's sort of a luxury and even an impossibility to enjoy the benefits of being both fully "assimilated" and having a separate identity at the same time, but NYC is the place where you can come close to that. In a way the piece made realize that the whole idea of having an "identity" is largely a product of living as a minority -- I doubt that native-born Israelis, for example, conceive of a Jewish "identity" in the same way diaspora jews do.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 January 2014 17:29 (ten years ago) link
of note tho is that among all the places where jews live, NYC + Israel probably have the highest rate of self-identification w/ Jewish culture + practices (even non-observant Israelis keep holidays + Shabbat at higher levels than diaspora Jews). but you're right too, i think, that intolerance + anti-semitism can create a Jewish identity, esp where one didn't necessarily exist before. i prefer living among a lot of jews just bc of the comfort + convenience (lots of jewish community services can only exist when you have a certain # of ppl making use of them) plus i'd rather avoid discrimination if possible. but i don't think this reduces my level of identification, but maybe puts a different spin on it?
― Mordy , Monday, 6 January 2014 17:33 (ten years ago) link
I think I'm trying to get at something slightly different though - it's not necessarily about "intolerance" or "anti-semitism." It's just that there's a certain comfort in being part of the default group, or at least one of them -- of existing in large enough numbers that you DON'T have to be constantly reminded of your "identity."
Like, people who celebrate Christmas in America probably mostly wouldn't talk about it being part of their "Christian identity." Celebrating Christmas is just What You Do.
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 January 2014 17:36 (ten years ago) link
I am also reminded of a story (maybe from Metropolitan Diary in the Times?) of the post-9/11 era where a conversation between a passenger and a muslim cab driver was described, something like:
Passenger: "Do you find it hard to be a muslim in New York today, with all of the prejudice?"Cabbie: "Well, it's not always so bad, but I get tired of people interrogating me."Passenger: "How do people interrogate you?"Cabbie: "Like you are doing, right now."
― signed, J.P. Morgan CEO (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 January 2014 17:38 (ten years ago) link
a nice takedown of that lazy surname piece making some rounds:http://mosaicmagazine.com/tesserae/2014/01/jewish-surnames-supposedly-explained/
― bnw, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 21:29 (ten years ago) link
some of you might get a kick out of this: my dad's voice at age 11 can be heard on this recording at around 3:50.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx1c7TUWHVo
― Burt Stuntin (Hurting 2), Saturday, 25 January 2014 04:11 (ten years ago) link
very cool, thx for sharing
― Mordy , Saturday, 25 January 2014 05:37 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5jyYD2WEw
― maralin mansion (color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that), Saturday, 25 January 2014 06:02 (ten years ago) link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nGSNEhXEu_s
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 February 2014 15:45 (ten years ago) link
let me try that again…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGSNEhXEu_s
― Mordy , Wednesday, 5 February 2014 15:46 (ten years ago) link
I've been idly speculating about joining a temple/congregation here in SF but have never found one I really liked. My wife was chatting with a co-op friend of ours whose also Jewish and she said they found one they liked and sent me the link:
http://www.orshalom.org/web/guest/home
My wife asked me what Reconstructionist meant, which I had a little difficult explaining (I've never attended Reconstructionist anything; I was raised in a Reform household though, so I have some educated guesses). Website is a bit lol. Feel like my options are so limited - on the one hand there's the super-rich and super-conservative temples on the other side of town and then on my side of town all we have is the LGBT temple, and I'm not into either of those. My daughter was telling me yesterday how she wants to go to Hebrew school, feel like I better come up with something and maybe this isn't too bad/ridiculous? I dunno.
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 14 March 2014 20:43 (ten years ago) link
so i was thinking i might wear a costume today but the only one i have on hand is a dashiki + like rasta hat from college. question: from a scale from 1 to blackface, how racist is a rasta costume on purim?
― Mordy , Sunday, 16 March 2014 17:46 (ten years ago) link
our bit of london is very close to the *very orthodox stamford hill, and there were some AMAZING costumes being worn today
― you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Sunday, 16 March 2014 18:55 (ten years ago) link
i have to leave for this chaggiga in about an hour so speak now or forever hold ur peace xp
― Mordy , Sunday, 16 March 2014 18:55 (ten years ago) link
dont do it
― gbx, Sunday, 16 March 2014 18:56 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, don't do it. Where a crown or something.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 16 March 2014 19:43 (ten years ago) link
Wear.
Dont do it
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Sunday, 16 March 2014 20:30 (ten years ago) link
dont
― socki (s1ocki), Monday, 17 March 2014 15:00 (ten years ago) link
did you do it
― coops all on coops tbh (crüt), Monday, 17 March 2014 15:02 (ten years ago) link
i just wore the dashiki, which is really a nice piece of clothing that's very colorful. i didn't wear the hat or anything which felt a little over the top and maybe tipped the scale into minstrelsy.
― Mordy , Monday, 17 March 2014 15:06 (ten years ago) link
http://www.complex.com/style/2013/08/clothes-white-people-shouldnt-wear/dashiki
obv wearing any outfit of another culture as a costume is complex (punz, lol) tho hopefully this wasn't too offensive to anyone :/
― Mordy , Monday, 17 March 2014 15:07 (ten years ago) link
fwiw, I saw a (non-blackface) rasta dude at the purim party I went to, fake dreads, some kind of colorful shirt, etc. It didn't really register as minstrelsy to me since there are already so many white reggae dudes with dreads, but IDK.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Monday, 17 March 2014 15:08 (ten years ago) link
yeah, i wouldn't have done fake dreads and like i said i thought the hat was too much, but idk, u know i love western african culture and music and so i hope my wearing the dashiki was more respectful than just drunken college student going lol?
― Mordy , Monday, 17 March 2014 15:09 (ten years ago) link
don't worry, i'll make sure to pick up a keffiyah for next year
(jk, next year we plan to do a family costume as adventure time characters)
― Mordy , Monday, 17 March 2014 15:21 (ten years ago) link
shakey mo, my DC shul shopping (which is rather lol for a non-Jew) led me to a Reconstructionist synagogue, where I will/would totally go if/when I were to actually convert. I go to High Holy Day services there and it is awesome and reconstructionism is a good fit for a not-feeling-the-personal-god-thing person such as myself.
― quincie, Thursday, 20 March 2014 11:27 (ten years ago) link
and the music is so much better than at Reform temples. Sorry, Reformers!
― quincie, Thursday, 20 March 2014 11:28 (ten years ago) link
not sure how i feel about this but seeing jay leno on their front page puts me further into the "fuck off" ledger though.http://nicejewishguys.net/
― bnw, Thursday, 20 March 2014 13:16 (ten years ago) link
If I join a synagogue I want it to have a really good cantor, which is hardest to find in reform temples for whatever reason.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 March 2014 14:01 (ten years ago) link
xp, yeah, generally a little sick of that kind of easy, corny, self-deprecating jewish humor schtick at this point in my life, but it's such a part of the culture, whaddyagonnado? As for whether it's actually offensive, I don't think so.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 March 2014 14:05 (ten years ago) link
the twin sons of the cantor at the synagogue i went to when i was growing up became a briefly famous canadian boy band
― socki (s1ocki), Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:03 (ten years ago) link
Excellent!
Reform synagogues I have been to have had cantors who don't have the vocal power and passion of cantors in conservative synagogues; plus the reform ones have had Rabbis who strum acoustic guitars in a very insipid folk music kind of way. But alas, some of the conservative ones I have been to include participants who want to make the temple nearly Orthodox, which is not for me.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:08 (ten years ago) link
I guess I was lucky, the cantor I had at my reform temple growing up seemed (to me anyway) totally old school - sonorous, booming voice, all organ+vocal arrangements/no acoustic gtr.
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:17 (ten years ago) link
I saw a kid dressed for Purim in my neighborhood on Sunday wearing sweatpants, basketball shorts, a hoodie, an Obama mask and a gigantic afro wig. :-\
― bi-polar uncle (its OK-he's dead) (Phil D.), Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:21 (ten years ago) link
Speaking of which: http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Israelis-who-dressed-up-as-Ku-Klux-Klan-members-on-Purim-make-waves-on-Facebook-345846
The JPost's coverage is pretty weaksauce too -- "A tasteless brand of humor, or a clever display of satire?" No, it's fuck you.
― james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:27 (ten years ago) link
secretly always resented the cantors b/c they would just sing x 5 everything the rabbi just said thereby lengthening the boring service.
― bnw, Thursday, 20 March 2014 15:32 (ten years ago) link
http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201403191756-0023572
― ∞, Saturday, 22 March 2014 03:36 (ten years ago) link
oh jesus
― socki (s1ocki), Saturday, 22 March 2014 18:41 (ten years ago) link
NAGL for the jews
― quincie, Sunday, 23 March 2014 00:33 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWzK5mVuGzM
― Mordy , Thursday, 27 March 2014 20:27 (ten years ago) link
xpost My first reaction is that no way were Israelis stupid enough to dress as the KKK for Purim, but then I thought, yeah, pretty much everyone is stupid enough to do something that stupid.
Back in school we had to read transcripts of the original Klan meetings, and it's kind of amazing how many people showed up to join. Iirc, it's basically like:
"blah blah early Klan stuff"
(guy raises hand) "Can Jews join?"
"No. Blhal blah more Klan ..."
(another hand goes up)
"Can Catholics join?"
"No" And so on.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 27 March 2014 20:49 (ten years ago) link
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/mitt-romney-corners-matzo-market
Bain Capitol buying Manischewitz
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 14:47 (nine years ago) link
They should go heritage brand with it
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 14:50 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/passover-with-a-strictly-biblical-flavor/2014/04/07/f6893c04-b531-11e3-b899-20667de76985_story.html
How Karaite Jews celebrate Passover (I've never heard of them before)excerpt:
The Torah’s Book of Exodus, Chapter 12, offers one description of the instructions for Passover fare: “The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: [Each household] shall eat [lamb] roasted over the fire, with unleavened bread and with bitter herbs” (Jewish Publication Society translation).
Remy Pessah of Mountain View, Calif., follows those words and long-standing family traditions each year at Passover time. Born in Egypt, the 66-year-old chemical engineer turned fiber artist was raised with Karaite Judaism. (“Karaite” is a form of the Hebrew word “karaim,” or “followers of Scripture.”) She joined the Karaite community in the San Francisco Bay area, which by some estimates includes more than 200 families. Pessah’s Seder table reflects this Jewish movement that takes its cues directly from the Tanach: the Torah, Prophets and additional texts known as Writings.
“Our Seder is pretty much different from the rabbinical Seders,” Pessah says. “The way we read the Haggadah, the preparation of the Haggadah, the whole atmosphere.”
It indeed differs, both in terms of the Haggadah, the book of readings that tells the Passover story and guides the Seder, and the meal. There are no Four Questions at a Karaite Seder. There is no fruity charoset and no wine — the latter is a fermented product. Instead, Pessah serves homemade grape juice.
The rabbinic Seders that Pessah referred to are what most observant American Jews know as the standard. Those Seders are based largely on the ancient rabbis’ redaction of the Tanach. That redaction is called the Oral Torah. The Karaites see the Oral Torah an interpretation rather than hard-and-fast rules. Some of the several thousand Karaites in the United States, especially those far from the Bay Area enclave, practice a mixture of Karaite and rabbinical traditions. The biggest Karaite community resides in Israel, and another pocket lives in Turkey.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 April 2014 19:42 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/passover-seders-move-to-nights-that-work-for-busy-lives/2014/04/13/3eca9316-c106-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.html
No Karaite Jews quoted here. This is about how Passover's 8 nights, and you may as well do the seder on a night that works for everyone to get together (according to some).
― curmudgeon, Monday, 14 April 2014 14:47 (nine years ago) link
We actually had a seder last night which is kind of ridiculous but that was what worked for my very secular in-laws.
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Monday, 14 April 2014 14:48 (nine years ago) link
It's that time again!!!!
It's theBread of afflictionIt's the bread of the JewsRisen bread--it's not kosher during Pe-sachAnd my boss--says "be careful! It is con-sti-pa-ting"I-don't-care-I-just-ate-sev-en sheeeeeeeeeetsOf the mat-zah
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 14 April 2014 16:07 (nine years ago) link
loool
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Monday, 14 April 2014 16:08 (nine years ago) link
ooooh I need matzah crack recipe--the stuff with toffee and chocolate and nuts. Anyone?
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 14 April 2014 16:09 (nine years ago) link
i love that song
― gbx, Monday, 14 April 2014 19:41 (nine years ago) link
I need matzah crack recipe
hold on a sec let me ask my wife
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 April 2014 19:46 (nine years ago) link
http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2008/01/chocolatecovere/
Via google, but have never made it.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 14 April 2014 19:51 (nine years ago) link
here's the one we usehttp://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-chocolate-caramel-matzo-brittle-recipes-from-the-kitchn-47589
― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 14 April 2014 20:01 (nine years ago) link
Awesome, thanks!
I am seder-less this year, but I'm still gonna eat seven sheets of matzah, dammit!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 14 April 2014 22:16 (nine years ago) link
happy passover, jews!
I am so going to make that matzah crack omg
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 15 April 2014 00:02 (nine years ago) link
Happy pesach y'all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4LSdALxpI
― ביטקוין (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 02:11 (nine years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/sportingscene/2014/05/americas-only-ballpark-synagogue.html
― Mordy, Friday, 16 May 2014 04:01 (nine years ago) link
everyone agreed that a gift-shop synagogue was better than no synagogue at all.
I guess so
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 May 2014 17:53 (nine years ago) link
http://www.drf.com/news/oy-gevalt-derby-winning-trainer-nice-jewish-boy
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 May 2014 17:58 (nine years ago) link
my bro just tweeted this:http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2014/05/29/an-open-letter-from-the-shondes/
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 3 June 2014 21:38 (nine years ago) link
They being dropped from the festival because of their support for the Boycott Israel BDS thing has gotten lots of media attention in DC, and they got a non-fest gig opening for DC punk band Priests instead.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 16:15 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/for-jewish-groups-a-stand-off-between-open-debate-and-support-of-israel/2014/05/28/409c397e-dab5-11e3-b745-87d39690c5c0_story.html
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 4 June 2014 16:30 (nine years ago) link
Caught this on a plane and it was frequently hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCNw8gNCtng
― 龜, Thursday, 5 June 2014 12:27 (nine years ago) link
kinda take umbrage at the suggestion that 20th c humor is Jewish humor
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 20:52 (nine years ago) link
idk who that guy is that made that claim tbh
It reminds me of those "Salt Explains World History" type books, you know, a grain of truth but take with a grain of, er, salt?
― ₴HABΔZZ ¶IZZΔ (Hurting 2), Thursday, 5 June 2014 20:55 (nine years ago) link
yeah I mean it's obvious that Jewish humor is HUGE in the culture of American comedy but... maybe it would be more accurate to delineate pre-60s and post-60s, cuz once Pryor is on the scene I mean gtfo
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 June 2014 20:58 (nine years ago) link
The guy who made it seems like kind of a dweeb (my favorite part of the doc is when Bob Einstein lays into him) but he gets a lot of interviews with a lot of funny comedians
― 龜, Thursday, 5 June 2014 21:04 (nine years ago) link
― quincie, Thursday, March 20, 2014 4:27 AM (2 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh dang hold on which synagogue? are you going to Adat Shalom? b/c my parents were founding members and I was born into that congregation. I miss it a lot!
― What Is It Like To Be A HOOS? (silby), Friday, 6 June 2014 19:24 (nine years ago) link
^^^yes! Adat Shalom!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 6 June 2014 23:08 (nine years ago) link
wooo that's awesome
― What Is It Like To Be A HOOS? (silby), Saturday, 7 June 2014 01:22 (nine years ago) link
IDGI, why would you convert? save yourself time and money and get a nicer desk chair.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Saturday, 7 June 2014 01:27 (nine years ago) link
or some noise-cancelling headphones, those are good.
have I mentioned in this thread that I met my husband on JDate? HE IS NOT JEWISH BTW I mean I tried to marry in but was foiled.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 8 June 2014 16:32 (nine years ago) link
wait, you're not jewish and you married a non-jew but you're looking for a shul? and you were both on jdate?!
― socki (s1ocki), Tuesday, 10 June 2014 17:09 (nine years ago) link
quincie contains multitudes
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 10 June 2014 17:22 (nine years ago) link
I failed at keeping kosher, if that helps.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Tuesday, 10 June 2014 17:45 (nine years ago) link
well looks like we'll be enrolling little V in the Sunday "Judaism School" offered by the Reconstructionist Temple I mentioned somewhere upthread (Or Shalom). I only know one other family there but their girls know V from our preschool co-op and I like them a lot so we'll see how it goes.
One odd thing that came up was that my wife was surprised that we have to pay membership fees to join the Temple. My wife grew up in a Catholic family (although she never attended church, catechism, etc.) and thought this stuff was free. I kinda assumed the Catholic Church is probably about the only religious institution that can afford to offer services for free, but I don't really know how it works with other churches. I figured everybody's gotta tithe/pay dues (how else would anything get paid for), this can't just be a Jewish thing right?
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 June 2014 20:06 (nine years ago) link
That had never occurred to me, but it makes sense. Synagogues are only loosely affiliated with central organizations (e.g. United Synagogue) and I don't think they are funded by them. I assume catholic churches get money from the big church.
― Hier Komme Die Warum Jetzt (Hurting 2), Monday, 16 June 2014 20:22 (nine years ago) link
the Catholic Church just owns so much shit, real estate, etc. but the vast majority of religious institutions aren't like that. most aren't even centralized the way the Church is.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 June 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
I'm more surprised to hear that catholic churches provide free sunday school
― Hier Komme Die Warum Jetzt (Hurting 2), Monday, 16 June 2014 20:37 (nine years ago) link
I'm not sure they do tbh. I don't know any Catholic parents sending their kids, and asking people who grew up going to Catholic School isn't really helpful since when does a kid ever know what costs money.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 16 June 2014 20:45 (nine years ago) link
baruch dayan emes, r' zalman schachter-shalomi passed away
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 July 2014 18:33 (nine years ago) link
i always heard that he used to study w/ shlomo carlebach when both were students of the Lubavitcher Rebbe at 770
― Mordy, Thursday, 3 July 2014 18:35 (nine years ago) link
temple we're considering joining hosted a talk from this guy, which I consider a positive sign: http://images.cdn.bigcartel.com/bigcartel/product_images/138731086/max_h-1000+max_w-1000/JEWS!.jpg
now I gotta figure out how much $$$ we can actually afford to join oy
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 16 July 2014 16:59 (nine years ago) link
I knew he was old but I had no idea
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 16 July 2014 18:29 (nine years ago) link
never realized scheduling a wedding was so difficult. Shabbat + Daylight Savings Time = good luck
― bnw, Wednesday, 30 July 2014 16:36 (nine years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQ1C5RJ2Vk#t=1655
If you've spent most of your time lately thinking about Israel/Palestine, this is a good thing to watch
― 'arry Goldman (Hurting 2), Thursday, 7 August 2014 04:37 (nine years ago) link
happy jewish valentine's day!
― Mordy, Monday, 11 August 2014 22:47 (nine years ago) link
great clip Hurting thx for posting
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 12 August 2014 20:42 (nine years ago) link
well I took Veronica to her first day of hebrew school at the reconstructionist temple ("don't let your child go shul-less!" lol). before class all the parents and kids and teachers sang some songs I probably haven't heard in 25 years, that was a trip.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 8 September 2014 16:52 (nine years ago) link
yay
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Wednesday, 10 September 2014 03:49 (nine years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/us/rabbis-find-talk-of-israel-and-gaza-a-sure-way-to-draw-congregants-wrath.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=LargeMediaHeadlineSum&module=photo-spot-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 18:03 (nine years ago) link
only read the first two paragraphs but afaik they're not accurate - rabbi sharon's fight w/ her congregants goes beyond mentioning the names of dead civilians in prayer alongside israeli soldiers: http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/182756/cbst
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 18:09 (nine years ago) link
I don't see what's innacurate...? I guess some previous issues are glossed over, but the general sequence of events seems the same in both articles
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 18:31 (nine years ago) link
w/out the background is makes the resignation seem incredibly petty
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 18:37 (nine years ago) link
it*
wtf is this:http://www.thekitchensf.org/mission/
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 19:12 (nine years ago) link
Welp, just booked a getaway for Rosh Hashanah because I couldn't get two days over the weekend, and now I feel guilty about it. Every year I go through some variation on this pain.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 September 2014 19:15 (nine years ago) link
would like to try out the family service at this temple we just joined but I uh already had a recording date booked so that is happening instead
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 19:18 (nine years ago) link
ty, making me feel a little better
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 September 2014 19:56 (nine years ago) link
In another quandry, some are worrying about whether to get tickets for baseball postseason games that might happen (time tba) on Kol Nidre (friday oct. 3) and Yom Kippur Saturday October 4th and/or whether to check the scores or watch on tv etc (and will any Jewish players sit out such games)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whats-a-faithful-jew-to-do-the-yom-kippur-baseball-dilemma/2014/09/18/c3319b7a-3f5c-11e4-b03f-de718edeb92f_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/09/18/choosing-shul-over-nats-park-on-yom-kippur/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/09/18/choosing-nats-park-over-shul-on-yom-kippur/
― curmudgeon, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:17 (nine years ago) link
lol i feel like they run those articles every year
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:20 (nine years ago) link
here's a local philly interest version from a few years ago:http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-07/news/30253608_1_yom-kippur-sundown-kol-nidre
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:21 (nine years ago) link
at least since Sandy Koufax's day
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:22 (nine years ago) link
it's a perennial, alongside article, 'can you believe jews live in Y?'
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:26 (nine years ago) link
and 'yiddish is dying' which i just saw an article about this week and i lol'dhttp://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/09/yiddish-has-a-problem/379658/
Yeah, seems like one of those "What do vegetarians eat on Thanksgiving?" type stories.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:29 (nine years ago) link
I'm not sure why or how mainstream religious or secular Jews in America would somehow also maintain a vital Yiddish-language culture; Yiddish was the Jewish vernacular of a time and place where Jews lived largely in isolated communities and its linguistic heyday in America was during a period of immigration. It's no surprise that it's now only a native language in insular Haredi communities.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:34 (nine years ago) link
haha I remember reading one of those stories over the course of a Jewish lit class I was taking in college. I remember it specifically because there was a quote from an old guy pointing out the Yiddish word for condom (shmekldekker) as evidence of the language continuing to grow/maintain relevance.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
i like the bashavis singer quote that hung at the yiddish newspaper i worked at in crown heights - (paraphrasing:) "people say yiddish is dying. may it continue to die for many more years to come." the truth is that for a language that most communities don't need, it's still remarkably vibrant w/ institutions, camps, newspapers, etc. not even talking about kiryas yoel or wherever they don't additionally speak english.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:38 (nine years ago) link
did we discuss this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/23/us/rabbis-find-talk-of-israel-and-gaza-a-sure-way-to-draw-congregants-wrath.html
they kind of bury the lede... the article tries to be even-handed, discussing how rabbis are worried of both criticizing and defending israel in fear of alienating parts of their congregations. but then 3/4 into the article they say that a study showed that rabbis are much more fearful of criticizing israel than defending it. honestly this is one of the major reasons i'm pretty alienated from organized judaism. although my old congregation is mentioned at the end, as the one whose soon-to-step-down rabbi is actually a supporter of BDS (!).
btw the article suggests that the (modern?) orthodox account for about 10% of american jewry. i wonder what % are haredi/ultrareligious. i imagine it's a growing number.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:40 (nine years ago) link
i like that quote about yiddish
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:41 (nine years ago) link
not to mention ongoing interest in preservation of the cultural work and ephemera that the Yiddish heyday in the US and in Europe produced, the importance to secular scholarship of studying literature in the original rather than in translation, translation projects, etc. Might as well lament the decline in Aramaic speakers in the Jewish community.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:41 (nine years ago) link
kol nidre is happening the same day as my birthday this year.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:42 (nine years ago) link
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, September 22, 2014 3:41 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
there's a brand-new archive of yiddish music and culture at the university where i study. it's pretty neat; they sponsor a klez-camp every summer. i haven't yet made an appointment to go listen to some of their 78s.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:43 (nine years ago) link
re: Israel, let's be real, the most liberal of Reconstructionist shuls, whose rabbis happily conduct gay interfaith marriages, are still gonna have congregants divided on Israel right now. That a pro-Israel stance among Jews is seen as "right wing" by leftist commentators is sort of garbage.
re: Yiddish, the National Yiddish Book Center was on my college campus! It was really cool, and you can buy any of the books they have out and take them home with you. It was an incredible project. Much nicer building than any of the actual school buildings too, what with that Jewish philanthropy strike force.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:45 (nine years ago) link
honestly this is one of the major reasons i'm pretty alienated from organized judaism. although my old congregation is mentioned at the end, as the one whose soon-to-step-down rabbi is actually a supporter of BDS (!).
i kinda wonder if this dynamic is the issue though? are ppl who are more likely to resonate w/ issues like BDS also ppl who feel alienated from the jewish community in the first place? tho judaism as a theology+philosophy has a lot of space for outsiders to the community (both culturally - spinoza types - and even within the religion there are traditions of hermits and theological anarchists like the kotzker rav), the jewish community isn't separable from tribalism really.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:46 (nine years ago) link
are ppl who are more likely to resonate w/ issues like BDS also ppl who feel alienated from the jewish community in the first place?
I don't think this is so.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:47 (nine years ago) link
well, maybe more likely, but I think you'll find tribally-engaged Jews floating around campus BDS groups as often as not.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:48 (nine years ago) link
ok, maybe not. that's just my impression reading jews who are active in BDS. i guess jewish voices for peace would be an exception - as a jewish community organization forming exclusively around the issue.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:48 (nine years ago) link
i think it's always going to be controversial suggesting boycotting coreligionists for political (as opposed to theological) rifts. that'll never be mainstream jewish community.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:49 (nine years ago) link
are ppl who are more likely to resonate w/ issues like BDS also ppl who feel alienated from the jewish community in the first place
I would say yes probably to some limited extent
tho judaism as a theology+philosophy has a lot of space for outsiders to the community (both culturally - spinoza types - and even within the religion there are traditions of hermits and theological anarchists like the kotzker rav)
this is one of the best things about the tribe imo
― Οὖτις, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:50 (nine years ago) link
yes for sure, and i've benefited tremendously from it. i think there's actually been a breakthrough in a some traditional jewish communities around recognizing this. i think it's why i can participate in an orthodox community without fully committing to a 100% orthodox lifestyle, and i'm accepted in the community and invited for meals and my kids go to the school, etc. i see this in chabad and in modern/open orthodoxy and in traditional/conservative too. actually the conservative synagogue near my house is the supplier for free-range kosher chicken, as well as hosting the hazon sustainable food convention this year, which is being orthodox catered. there's a lot of commingling among millennial jews i find in this community from a kinda broad spectrum of practices.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:52 (nine years ago) link
like for sure the historically traditional model of halachic performance was that everyone lived in the same community and you did what you did and some ppl were probably very stringent and some ppl weren't -- i think the worldwide jewish community kinda lose the thread on this post-WW2 (maybe for good reasons) but it seems to be making a comeback.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 20:54 (nine years ago) link
That a pro-Israel stance among Jews is seen as "right wing" by leftist commentators is sort of garbage.
i have a hard time parsing this comment. surely many of those jews who are critical of israel's recent attacks in gaza and their policy of expanding settlements are very pro-israel in a more meaningful, existential sense?
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 20:58 (nine years ago) link
Well, yes.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 21:00 (nine years ago) link
so what is your point?
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 22 September 2014 21:00 (nine years ago) link
and which part of the article are you referencing?
I'm not sure what I was reacting to with my comment, just built up ambiguous anguish.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 22 September 2014 21:01 (nine years ago) link
This is one of those extra-long Yom Kippur+shabbat years, huh.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 22 September 2014 22:05 (nine years ago) link
I mean the service is extra long. I assume the year is the usual number of days, although iirc that kinda varies with the Hebrew calendar?
it's a 3-day yom tov aka two day yom tov + shabbos for the third day.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 September 2014 22:20 (nine years ago) link
so many lolzhttp://www.shabbosapp.com
― Mordy, Monday, 29 September 2014 20:36 (nine years ago) link
Seattle's Reconstructionist chavurah doesn't ticket their HHD services so I might actually go to Kol Nidre on Friday.
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Monday, 29 September 2014 21:30 (nine years ago) link
http://finkorswim.com/2014/10/01/the-shabbos-app-yes-it-is-real/ < this is crazy and worth reading. if any of the language or references in it are confusing ask me but it's, imo, a game changer (probably over time tho - but ppl in my frum world on fb are already asking how long it'll be before mainstream orthodox opinion is that electricity is okay on shabbat).
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:49 (nine years ago) link
Many know about the psak of the Chazon Ish who prohibited electricity based on the melacha (Biblically forbidden creative activity) of boneh (building) because activating an electric device involves completing a circuit which is a form of building. Many people also know that this is not considered an accurate description of electricity or boneh by Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach.
hard for me to take this stuff seriously/worry about it for precisely these kinds of reasons
altho yeah that app is nuts for seeming to be expressly designed to violate shomer shabbos
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 21:08 (nine years ago) link
I did lol at this tho:
When I asked the Shabbos App developer what Shabbat would look like if everyone would be using their smartphones, his answer reflected this sensibility. He said “Shabbat will look the way Hashem wants it to look!”
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 October 2014 21:11 (nine years ago) link
Interesting post and interesting site thx. I really need to hit you up more for jewish reading recs.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 October 2014 00:47 (nine years ago) link
Xp to mordy sorry
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 October 2014 00:49 (nine years ago) link
I think there's quite a lot in orthodox practice that revolves around the tension btw the spirit and the letter of law and what constitutes breaking vs navigating it. I find a lot of it silly roost times but I'm also fascinated by what motivates people to live that life, especially intelligent people who I doubt fear a literal angry God punishing them for disobedience.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Thursday, 2 October 2014 00:55 (nine years ago) link
fwiw, I attended my first Yom Kippur service in years through an unaffiliated org that provides free services, and I even fasted (all the way until 4:30pm at which point we were at PS1 and my wife insisted on M.Wells Dinette -- could not pass up, sorry G_d).
The night before, although I did not attend a service, I did read through some of a rabbinical assembly mahzor and listen to the Richard Tucker recording of Kol Nidrei. I think it's probably my favorite piece of Jewish music, and although I feel weird listening to it outside its purpose, it is available on Spotify.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 01:36 (nine years ago) link
We went to the family yom kippur service on friday. It was nice, lots of singing.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 02:27 (nine years ago) link
I decided I mostly like Yom Kippur and I'm just going to shrug at the parts I don't like (the "who by fire" stuff etc.)
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 8 October 2014 02:32 (nine years ago) link
Yeah it was a relief that they go pretty light on the guilt stuff for the kids
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 October 2014 02:49 (nine years ago) link
Shlomo Sand doesn't want to be a jew anymore: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/shlomo-sand-i-wish-to-cease-considering-myself-a-jew
thoughts?
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 10 October 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
why doesn't he just stop being an Israeli
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 17:04 (nine years ago) link
considering his vile slandering of Jewish ppl I doubt he will be missed
― Mordy, Friday, 10 October 2014 19:02 (nine years ago) link
generally confused by the piece myself
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 October 2014 19:14 (nine years ago) link
http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/32/64/27/7030263/5/920x680.jpg
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:32 (nine years ago) link
Let's not forget Christian zionism was just as committed as Jewish. Isreal is the last stand and forefront of European colonialism.
― Raccoon Tanuki, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:34 (nine years ago) link
totally, well said
― the final twilight of all evaluative standpoints (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:36 (nine years ago) link
are you jewish RT?
Lots of Jews have "assimilated" over the centuries and given up identification with Jewish culture and religion, so that in itself is not particularly interesting. Sand seems like he's just crying out that reality is too much pain for him, and while I can sometimes relate to the sentiment I don't think his essay is very coherent.
― my jaw left (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:44 (nine years ago) link
ok but guys the photo
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:51 (nine years ago) link
related: http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.621899
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:52 (nine years ago) link
if it isn't clear what's going on, that's one of the Women of the Wall trying to hug an ultra-orthodox protestor
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 21 October 2014 21:53 (nine years ago) link
women of the wall ftw
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 21 October 2014 22:47 (nine years ago) link
http://www.shalomlife.com/news/26753/volunteer-finds-rare-jewish-war-heroes-comic-published-in-1944/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 18:28 (nine years ago) link
awesome and scannedhttp://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27391http://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=21569http://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=39239
― Steve 'n' Seagulls and Flock of Van Dammes (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 4 November 2014 19:09 (nine years ago) link
I've been wanting to read something about capes comics and crypto-Judaism, anyone know an academic/crossover book about this or should I just get around to reading Kavalier and Clay?
― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Tuesday, 4 November 2014 19:11 (nine years ago) link
I hated that book so no
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 19:11 (nine years ago) link
there have been a lot of non-fiction on the topic published recently but i can't give a good recommendation bc i haven't read any of it. maybe look at:
http://www.amazon.com/From-Krakow-Krypton-Comic-Books/dp/0827608438/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=09WDS1ANGH5C0GMWSX27
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 November 2014 19:14 (nine years ago) link
heading out to the hazon food festival now. v cool program imo:
Session 1 workshops include:Quick Seasonal Pickling with Marisa McClellanBati LeGani: Planting Sacred Space to Connect Family, G-d, and Creation with Zohar Asbel (Children’s Programming)Vegetable Gardening with Sally McCabeVegan Turkey Demo with Jasmin IlkayFood Insecurity in Israel with LeketShmita 101 with Rabbi Kevin KleinmanFood Access Advocacy Work with Robin RifkinRaising Children with Shmita Consciousness – A Creative Laboratory with Rabbis Martin & KelinBaking a Difference with Challah for Hunger (Elana Silberstein)Antibiotics in Agriculture with Sam BernhardtSnapshot of Moshe: The coming of Shabbat & Manna with Rabbi Arthur WaskowChildren’s Crafts & Storytelling with JKidPhilly (Lori Rubin) Session 2 workshops include:Small Batch Preserving with Honey with Marisa McClellanDIY Pickling with Phickle (Amanda Feifer)Turkey Butchering Session with Grow & BeholdIntergenerational Cooking Program with Tina WassermanSustainability Through Eradicating Animal Farming with Dara LovitzOlive Oil: The essence of Hanukkah with Ronit TreatmanFaith-based Partnerships to Improve Food Justice in Philadelphia with The Food Trust and Rabbi Kevin KleinmanPartnerships for Sustainable Community Food Systems with Ryan KuckShmita Cycles in the Kabbalah: Different Torahs for Different Worlds with Joel HeckerShmita and Pre-agricultural Food Systems with Nati Passow and Bob PiersonThe Eco-Kosher Dollar with Rabbi Arthur WaskowChildren’s Crafts & Storytelling with JKidPhilly (Lori Rubin)
Quick Seasonal Pickling with Marisa McClellanBati LeGani: Planting Sacred Space to Connect Family, G-d, and Creation with Zohar Asbel (Children’s Programming)Vegetable Gardening with Sally McCabeVegan Turkey Demo with Jasmin IlkayFood Insecurity in Israel with LeketShmita 101 with Rabbi Kevin KleinmanFood Access Advocacy Work with Robin RifkinRaising Children with Shmita Consciousness – A Creative Laboratory with Rabbis Martin & KelinBaking a Difference with Challah for Hunger (Elana Silberstein)Antibiotics in Agriculture with Sam BernhardtSnapshot of Moshe: The coming of Shabbat & Manna with Rabbi Arthur WaskowChildren’s Crafts & Storytelling with JKidPhilly (Lori Rubin)
Session 2 workshops include:
Small Batch Preserving with Honey with Marisa McClellanDIY Pickling with Phickle (Amanda Feifer)Turkey Butchering Session with Grow & BeholdIntergenerational Cooking Program with Tina WassermanSustainability Through Eradicating Animal Farming with Dara LovitzOlive Oil: The essence of Hanukkah with Ronit TreatmanFaith-based Partnerships to Improve Food Justice in Philadelphia with The Food Trust and Rabbi Kevin KleinmanPartnerships for Sustainable Community Food Systems with Ryan KuckShmita Cycles in the Kabbalah: Different Torahs for Different Worlds with Joel HeckerShmita and Pre-agricultural Food Systems with Nati Passow and Bob PiersonThe Eco-Kosher Dollar with Rabbi Arthur WaskowChildren’s Crafts & Storytelling with JKidPhilly (Lori Rubin)
― Mordy, Sunday, 16 November 2014 16:58 (nine years ago) link
hazon festival was great
i've never heard about this chag before:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigd
but since cheshvon doesn't have any other holidays i think i'm going to start observing it
― Mordy, Thursday, 20 November 2014 04:19 (nine years ago) link
every time this pops up in my bookmarks i hear rita moreno yellinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C797vkyV5hc
― So beautiful cow (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 20 November 2014 05:17 (nine years ago) link
http://tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/153792/brodner-thanksgiving
http://cdn1.tabletmag.com/wp-content/files_mf/JT-Final-1.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 28 November 2014 21:21 (nine years ago) link
Occurred to me for the first time ever to ask my dad if we're eligible for German citizenship through his dad, he didn't think so but we looked it up and we are. Now I really want to do it. Having an EU passport seems potentially useful, and I can't deny the emotional power of being somehow made whole in this way.
― ambergris shmambergris (silby), Saturday, 29 November 2014 00:20 (nine years ago) link
i think i've mentioned my ladino speaking friend before who really wanted to take advantage of spain's offer recently idk if she succeeded
― Mordy, Saturday, 29 November 2014 00:22 (nine years ago) link
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey/
― Mordy, Friday, 5 December 2014 18:56 (nine years ago) link
Anyone here have ancestors from the Bessarabia/Moldova area?
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Saturday, 6 December 2014 07:09 (nine years ago) link
http://elitedaily.com/music/shake-it-off-hanukkah-best-parody/879262/
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 13 December 2014 22:22 (nine years ago) link
there's also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wi1H3UnKhk
― Mordy, Saturday, 13 December 2014 22:28 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/theater_dance/artistic-director-fired-from-theater-j/2014/12/18/b6404b48-8712-11e4-abcf-5a3d7b3b20b8_story.html
Longtime theatre director at DC Jcc fired for controversial play choices
― curmudgeon, Friday, 19 December 2014 04:03 (nine years ago) link
Sorry to say I didn't have to read it to guess what you meant by "controversial." Disappointing that the "big donors" or whatever still can't handle this kind of thing.
― man alive, Friday, 19 December 2014 04:14 (nine years ago) link
Yep. Ari Roth has a great rep in the theatre world.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 19 December 2014 14:23 (nine years ago) link
Interstingly, the webpage for Citizens Opposed to Propaganda Masquerading as Art redirects to an Air Jordan store.
― how's life, Friday, 19 December 2014 14:46 (nine years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Friday, 19 December 2014 15:35 (nine years ago) link
my daughter learns about the parsha + stuff at school and she has recently been coming home w/ questions about hashem. like she asked me if hashem has a mouth and i tried to explain anthropomorphism to her, but she's 3 so it was tough. (well, hashem doesn't actually have a mouth, bc hashem isn't like us at all, but he kinda has a mouth like that's how we understand it -- D's expression slowly glazing over as i explain.) she also wanted to know when hashem sleeps and we explained that hashem is always awake but does rest on Shabbos but i think that confused her as well. i chap a ton of nachus when she comes home singing something she learned at school - like "hashem is here hashem is there hashem is truly everywhere" or "hashem gave us a present, do you know what it was, he gave us the torah, so we could do its laws," but i do wonder what the concept of "hashem" could possibly mean to a 3 year old.
― Mordy, Monday, 16 February 2015 15:13 (nine years ago) link
"mommy" probably
― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Monday, 16 February 2015 15:36 (nine years ago) link
i guess like adults aren't any better at apprehending the existence of god
― Mordy, Monday, 16 February 2015 15:40 (nine years ago) link
Thursday night screening and concert as part of DC Jewish Film Fest
East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem
In 2013, Israeli-born folk singer David Broza crossed into the mainly Arab portion of the city of Jerusalem to record in 8 days an album with Israeli, Palestinian, and American musicians, including guitarist/producer Steve Earle. The process was filmed in and out of the studio and is the subject of the 80-minute movie East Jerusalem, West Jerusalem. The focus of the movie is on Broza’s enthusiastic effort to get Israelis and Palestinians together via song, but despite the nobility of his struggle, his well-meaning spoken and sung platitudes are less interesting here than the other musicians and the fascinating cityscape shots. In the studio, Palestinian singer Mira Awad’s vocal intonation and range is striking, and her description of how her beliefs and duet partner choices aggravate both Palestinians and Israelis conveys some of the impossibility of the situation there. Rapper Muhammad Mugrabi also shines. His wearied tales and the footage of his barbed-wire-topped, walled-in Shuafat Refugee Camp home region are heart-breaking. The film acknowledges extremists on both sides, but with the aid of Palestinian and Israeli youth singers who note the naivety of it, nevertheless figure singing in English the Elvis Costello-popularized song “What’s So Funny ‘Bout Peace, Love & Understanding,” is a step in the right direction. Broza, Awad, and Earle will do a 45-minute musical set and Q&A after the screening. Feb. 26 at Sidney Harman Hall.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 21:12 (nine years ago) link
http://aeon.co/magazine/culture/the-double-life-of-hasidic-atheists
― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 February 2015 03:41 (nine years ago) link
x-post-- the q and a with Broza and Awad provided some additional insight re the movie. Plus, I didn't know they really haven't gotten the movie out there--NY, DC, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and a few other screenings. I'm still not a fan of Broza's music, and his uh hammy folk song delivery (but there were many folks in DC singing along in Hebrew with him), but I do respect that he did this project (despite boycott bds threats that kept some musicians from collaborating with him) and that he keeps bringing music to the Shuafat Refugee Camp
― curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 14:58 (nine years ago) link
Although I'm not generally a fan of Broza, he was involved in creating Hakeves Hashisha Asar, which I believe is possibly *the* greatest children's record ever made in any language.
― walid foster dulles (man alive), Friday, 27 February 2015 15:37 (nine years ago) link
fwiw I find a lot of israeli rock/folk/pop singers to be hammy/overly earnest in that particular way. It's odd to me because it seems like the opposite of Israeli cultural attitudes otherwise.
― walid foster dulles (man alive), Friday, 27 February 2015 15:41 (nine years ago) link
Interesting. Broza sang a kids song last night. I just wanted more Mira Awad, and she mostly sat and only did a few songs. In the movie and in the q and a they kept saying that Israeli Hebrew is very direct, while Palestinian Arabic tends not to be direct and to instead maneuver in a circular yet strategic way, and how both of these aspects get interpreted in political and almost racist ways. I thought some of Broza's hammy ways were just kinda stereotypical folk singer ones-- "Hey audience, sing along with this one..."
Israeli singer/musician Idan Rachel does not seem hammy, but I think he's less of a star. I only saw him in a special collaboration with Malian Vieux Farka Toure
― curmudgeon, Friday, 27 February 2015 16:02 (nine years ago) link
Idan Raichel is good. Arik Einstein (RIP) is also not hammy at all. But there seems to be a big contingent of vaguely spiritual, vaguely "world music", very sincere Israeli singer-songwriters who are prominent.
― walid foster dulles (man alive), Friday, 27 February 2015 16:04 (nine years ago) link
― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 February 2015 03:41 (4 days ago)
the hidden fedora beneath the shtreimel
― poc het ino (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 3 March 2015 00:59 (nine years ago) link
https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11021402_737693419837_6749085109262047544_o.jpg
― Mordy, Wednesday, 4 March 2015 16:02 (nine years ago) link
too much time on ilx
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 4 March 2015 16:02 (nine years ago) link
http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/only-some-people-are-jewish-2150
― Mordy, Thursday, 26 March 2015 01:12 (nine years ago) link
Hosting our first seder this year
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 March 2015 01:47 (nine years ago) link
I am going to a Seder at an Episcopal church.
I keep trying to be Jewish, and failing . See also: met husband on Jdate. Dude turns out not to be Jewish.
Now Seder at a church.
Oy.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 26 March 2015 02:07 (nine years ago) link
http://www.wsj.com/articles/man-seders-flow-with-steak-and-scotch-1427320586
― 龜, Thursday, 26 March 2015 14:42 (nine years ago) link
Oy veh, Mad Men seders.
Meanwhile the working class folks making matza at the Streit factory on the lower east side in NYC will be be moving their place of business to a new locale soon.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/century-old-nyc-matzo-factory-faces-a-high-tech-future/2015/03/30/84ced4a2-d69b-11e4-bf0b-f648b95a6488_story.html?tid=ptv_rellink
― curmudgeon, Monday, 30 March 2015 18:51 (eight years ago) link
http://www.amazon.com/Everymans-Talmud-Major-Teachings-Rabbinic/dp/9562914356
This book just arrived in the mail. I am not Jewish but I have always wanted to read about the Talmud and a search on Amazon led me to this book. Has anyone read it?
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 31 March 2015 15:27 (eight years ago) link
like the new testament, the talmud is the thing we use to cover up the despotic iron age horrors of the hebrew bible, even though we go along with it just the same when push comes to shove.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Tuesday, 31 March 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
a good read though. if you can stomach it.
^ someone who has never learnt any talmud
― Mordy, Tuesday, 31 March 2015 17:49 (eight years ago) link
drek is about to get real in here
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 07:06 (eight years ago) link
anyone ever had "spelt matza". kosher for Passover but a different grain
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:19 (eight years ago) link
― Mordy,
secular people learn life from life, mistakes etc. not an advice book on how and when to do things. sorry.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:30 (eight years ago) link
I can tell from yr posts that you literally know nothing about the Talmud
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:44 (eight years ago) link
maybe stop embarrassing yourself and keep to things you actually know about
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:45 (eight years ago) link
is that a special power it gives you?
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:56 (eight years ago) link
No I can tell bc you think a) that it has something to do with looking better than the OT and b) that it's an advice book. Neither are remotely accurate
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 13:58 (eight years ago) link
A thing we use to cover up iron age horrors- please say more bc afaic you pulled out of yr ass
have you not read the torah?
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:01 (eight years ago) link
I'm not suggesting you know nothing about the OT. I'm asserting that you know nothing about the Talmud.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:03 (eight years ago) link
My question to you is give me some examples of how the Talmud covers up the "horrors" of the OT.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:04 (eight years ago) link
I already stated I haven't read the talmud. I was talking about the old test/torah in my other post.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:05 (eight years ago) link
Just for clarity you did write: "like the new testament, the talmud is the thing we use to cover up the despotic iron age horrors of the hebrew bible" my pt is that this is an embarrassing misrepresentation of the talmud
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:06 (eight years ago) link
I said that because the torah is full of horrors, and like the xtians, it is preferred to study the gospels, or the jews, the talmud, because it is largely more moral by todays standards. Sorry if this wasn't clear.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:06 (eight years ago) link
You are continuing to misrepresent. The OT is read in synagogue every Saturday and is studied by many many Jews. The Talmud is a compendium of legal arguments (w some aggadatah- weird stories) studied mostly by yeshiva students and scholars. It has nothing to do w being a substitute for the OT (unlike the NT which yr right was theologically intended to supersede the OT)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:10 (eight years ago) link
If you've studied the Talmud you are intimately familiar w the Torah, no less bc the authority for almost every argument in the Talmud comes directly from Torah scripture
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:11 (eight years ago) link
ftr I cannot think of a single "horror" in the Torah that isn't discussed in the Talmud- making it a very poor document for avoiding those narratives
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:16 (eight years ago) link
As it is in church and by millions of xtians. Still, plenty of more, er, conscientious modern types like to try to pretend OT doesn't exist as best they can, because they have read it. Much better to focus on the largely more positive gospels.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:17 (eight years ago) link
No one who studies the Talmud is pretending the OT doesn't exist. That would be insane.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:18 (eight years ago) link
And I am fully aware of the importance of the torah in judaism, as everyone should be, when one looks at the mentalities of settlers in the west bank, it is of course fueled by the stories in the tanakh.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:21 (eight years ago) link
― Mordy
Yes, but that is the same as the gospels. The gospels were probably an attempt by later writers to "soften" and expand and improve on the morals the stories in the OT somewhat.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:22 (eight years ago) link
I'm not going to get into what percentage of settlers are theologically motivated and what % are secular but yr statement is a little reductive. My entire point is that you shouldn't misrepresent things you don't know about particularly vis-a-vis the Talmud. If nothing else hopefully this conversation will give you more accurate things to say the next time you feign knowledge on the topic
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:24 (eight years ago) link
Also I'll let someone with a stake in the NT educate you about that but the gospels are not an attempt to soften expand or improve the OT law but specifically to replace it and replace its laws w faith in christ
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:29 (eight years ago) link
I have re-visited the OT since briefly reading the first two books when I was a kid, and was kind of surprised at how bare and plain the writing was. It will be good to read commentary on what those stories mean or have to say, particularly from a non-Protestant perspective.
As for horrors in the Bible, I can take it. It's not like the past has a monopoly on horror.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:32 (eight years ago) link
If your primary interest is in the OT I wouldn't recommend the Talmud. Look into a series of texts called Me'om Lo'ez that has a wonderful super readable translation by iirc Aryeh Kaplan
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:35 (eight years ago) link
Basically a compendium of midrash and Jewish folklore and wisdom centered directly on the week by week Torah portion
My primary interest isn't the OT exactly just brought that up due to conversation. But thanks for the recommendation!
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:37 (eight years ago) link
drash if you're reading this thread I think that might be a good option for what you were looking for too
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:39 (eight years ago) link
"I'm not going to get into what percentage of settlers are theologically motivated and what % are secular but yr statement is a little reductive."
OK let's put it this way, 100% are either religiously or nationalistically motivated. Bibi himself is probably not even that religious, his father was an atheist I believe. In fact the whole Zionist movement has largely, at governement level at least, already moved past religious motives privately. But most of the settlers obviously haven't. It doesn't matter anyway to this debate. I stated that the OT and H.B are full of horrors and rampant sexism.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:40 (eight years ago) link
thanks, i will
― drash, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:41 (eight years ago) link
― Mordy, Wednesday, April 1, 2015 2:29 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Sure but this was probably because the OT despot God totally sucked, and there were all these mystery religions catching on with themes of rebirth and transformation within an earthly lifetime, and promising a personal religious experience/relationship w the divine. The early Christians were just getting with the ancient world program.
― Orson Wellies (in orbit), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:41 (eight years ago) link
Deuteronomy 22:2323 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
What does the Talmud comment on this passage, Mordy?
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:45 (eight years ago) link
I think you're an exceptionally dishonest debater since we are debating whether your characterization of the Talmud has anything to do w reality and not whether there are passages in the OT that we find disturbing from the perspective of modern ethics
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:47 (eight years ago) link
I'd say more based on modern morality, not ethics, but ok.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
Maybe try comprehending the time/conditions in which that was written.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 14:52 (eight years ago) link
man yr arguing with a raccoon.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:01 (eight years ago) link
actually tho has been entertaining watching Mordy trounce him itt
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:02 (eight years ago) link
Yes, you should. It was a time when woman and children were considered mere man's property, no more than cattle really. As things, not people.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:02 (eight years ago) link
― Hammer Smashed Bagels
Nice try.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:03 (eight years ago) link
Ah I see, I've seen this a thousand times before. So when it comes down to it, you're not actually willing to debate the issues and the content of these books, because your fully aware it's impossible to defend them.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:04 (eight years ago) link
xpost try would imply "effort", y'know, like you actually reading the Talmud prior to commenting on what it is.
I have not read the Talmud so I do not post about it. Novel thought, right? you should try it.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:05 (eight years ago) link
Mordy is this it?
http://www.amazon.com/Torah-Anthology-Beginnings-Meam-Series/dp/0940118017
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:08 (eight years ago) link
Yes- there are a lot of volumes so I'd recommend starting w areas that yr particularly interested in.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:10 (eight years ago) link
― Hammer Smashed Bagels,
Not sure why you and Mordy are implying you need to have read Talmud front to back to "know what it is". Any brief summary can tell you what it is. Mordy took issue with me saying it was in some ways reflective of the xtians use of the gospels, which it does seem to be to me.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:11 (eight years ago) link
good point. a brief summary of your ILX posts tells me yr a piss poor troll with shit tastes in hip-hop.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:12 (eight years ago) link
mordy do you have any recs for books on jewish ethics that aren't by Joseph Telushkin
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:12 (eight years ago) link
I just recommended Heschels Prophets to drash- it's excellent. Also you might dig some soloveitchik like lonely man of faith
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 15:15 (eight years ago) link
who is trolling who
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:04 (eight years ago) link
you're not actually willing to debate the issues and the content of these books
As a society we have already debated the issues you are bringing up. It is illegal to murder, retributive violence is not tolerated, and women now have autonomy. It sounds like you want to debate the person who wrote Deuteronomy, which is going to be difficult to do.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:06 (eight years ago) link
ok so you've come in for a flame war because you don't like what's being said about the torah, yet im a piss poor troll. Either way I think you're wasting my time. bye!
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:10 (eight years ago) link
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau),
I would argue this as a clearly disingenous point as it's already been stated that millions of people are still following the words of the torah, as Mordy has already mentioned. So let's talk about it.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:12 (eight years ago) link
okay now i know who's trolling who
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:13 (eight years ago) link
"Women now have autonomy"
Have you been to a xtian wedding recently? Most xtian women still consider themselves property of the husband, if you push them on it. And the vows and attitudes reflect that. How many female rabbis are in Israel?
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:14 (eight years ago) link
When Israel was formed in '48, the Orthodox Rabbinate were handed control over many society and family issues. Of course Orthodox Rabbis went on to be the dominate power in Israel (you can't get married in Israel under a non-Orthodox rabbi).
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:18 (eight years ago) link
I'm not sure who you're arguing with or about what but I think that's ok bc I'm not sure you know either
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:18 (eight years ago) link
The other poster was intimating the horrors of the Torah are looked over, which in a way was my original point - but in another way, wasn't to the post of they qouted.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:22 (eight years ago) link
Sorry I'm still not grokking. Can you the exact words that you are arguing with atm and tell me what the argument is?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:23 (eight years ago) link
Who let this guy back in?
― Bees and the Law (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:30 (eight years ago) link
Ok man look, I thought you were interested in a debate about the Talmud, but when it comes down to it, you just want to avoid the actual contents part, or the bad parts. Which is exactly what I was saying people do in the first place. I know this is not an easy thing to talk about when it comes to your culture so w/e.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:33 (eight years ago) link
The Talmud is a different book to the Torah. I was interested in explaining what the Talmud actually is. You are arguing that there are horrible quotes in the Torah. So who is dodging the topic here me or you?
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:34 (eight years ago) link
I think he wants you to admit that murder is bad.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:35 (eight years ago) link
No offence, but you're still doing it. This is the same avoidance tactic I've seen millions of times. Your twisting your own words now. Earlier you were saying the Talmud and Torah are intimately linked and cannot be separated, but now, you are saying the horrible qoutes are only part of the Torah.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:38 (eight years ago) link
(xp) as bad as Charli XCX
― Bees and the Law (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:38 (eight years ago) link
Not only do I not feel obligated to defend the morality of anything written in the Torah I also don't feel obligated to debate the morality of the Talmud. Here are the full parameters of my pov here: you mischaracterized what kind of book the Talmud is.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:38 (eight years ago) link
If you think I'm defending anything either of those texts say as morally correct you are having a conversation with yourself
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:39 (eight years ago) link
Not exactly, but that murder committed by or in the name of God is bad, because if he does he is going against the teachings of the Torah. My question would be how anyone can base any sort of moral teachings from a book as shocking and murderous page after page like the Torah. It's the central problem.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:41 (eight years ago) link
had no idea that pages of a book could murder. is it the Necronomicon?
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link
Good point. Nothing to do with whether the Talmud is a book of advice however. Xp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:42 (eight years ago) link
Dear Talmud....
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 16:43 (eight years ago) link
So is the Talmud a book of advice?
I took a semester on Hindu Traditions and after covering the foundational texts we spent a lot of time covering the various philosophical schools and commentaries, which tended to really open up the possibilities for interpretation and debate on everything from practical/moral application to abstract/theoretical philosophy. Is that kind of what the Gemara is?
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
Not exactly, but that murder committed by or in the name of God is bad, because if he does he is going against the teachings of the Torah.
I can only say that no rabbi or religious teacher I've ever had has told me I'm supposed to go around stoning adulterers or destroying the cities of the Gentiles. You are welcome to go around thinking that all of modern Judaism is a big lie and we're all "going against the teachings of the Torah" if you want; but just know that by doing so you're on the same team as the clowns who insist that the 99.999% of Muslims who are uninterested in terrorism are "going against the teachings of Koran" because they're not out there killing unbelievers.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 17:41 (eight years ago) link
Yes of course, you pick and choose which parts of the word of God you like. Same as xtians.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 17:44 (eight years ago) link
Why are u guys arguing w this anti-semite moron troll
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 17:59 (eight years ago) link
I had a long commute to Long Island this morning
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:04 (eight years ago) link
Good thing picking and choosing which laws to follow isn't a thing in secular modern society OH WAIT YOU ARE RICH YOU DON'T GO TO JAIL HERE IS YOUR FEE BTW THANK YOU FOR BEING A LEADER AND EXAMPLE FOR ALL SOCIETY
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:08 (eight years ago) link
and it goes on and on and onandonandonandgiggitygiggityGIGGITYGIGGITY!
― Albanic Kanun Autark (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:20 (eight years ago) link
I'm eating at a kosher Mexican restaurant now w my chassidic father but I'm thinking since the OT says we should stone adulterers maybe I should just go next door and eat some trief.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:30 (eight years ago) link
^yes, this is how i live my life actually.
― lil urbane (Jordan), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:35 (eight years ago) link
The details of any book, including the Torah, the Bible, the Talmud, and the Grimms's Fairy Tales, can be analysed through deductive reasoning.
1. God created everything
2. Evil is something
∴ God created evil
Every book about God tries to reason with the external world about how and why evil exists, which comes down to essentially meaningless, mental gymnastics. Thus, religion created a priori knowledge. Theists, therefore, retreat to 'knowing' God a priori--another meaningless thought. What theists do not admit is how or why two opposite 'evils' exist. That is to say, how can, for example, one act be considered rape, and therefore evil, to some, while the same act is considered non-rape to others. More importantly, this gets at a nagging issue in the entire premise of theistic belief: things are neither intrinsically evil nor intrinsically good. What the theist says, therefore, is those whose standards of evil and good do not match up with his must be wrong, based on absolutely nothing.
― Thought Police, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:51 (eight years ago) link
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1rgvwrU1yFE/maxresdefault.jpg
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:55 (eight years ago) link
Omg is this for real can't we move this nonsense conversation to one of the many worthless atheist threads
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:56 (eight years ago) link
Like it was sorta relevant when we were talking about the Talmud but once it became clear that we were just talking about raccoons hang ups on religion (btw Adam when I get off the road I'll write a better summary of what the Talmud is)
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 18:58 (eight years ago) link
"HEY JEWS, why do bad things happen to good people?"
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:07 (eight years ago) link
Thanks! Sorry to adding to the confusion, I agree let's take it to the atheist thread. I am genuinely interested in a Jewish take on the Bible partly because Protestant doctrine has long been very dogmatic and church-controlled and there are not many Protestant commentaries on the Bible that are not subsumed in that viewpoint.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:09 (eight years ago) link
The issue is not with evil, in fact evil is easily argued for theologically, I see it's place in the OT as not confusing at all. Again though, you are simply avoiding the issue.
The issue is not with "evil in the world", no one said it was, the issue presented was God of the Torah doing and encouraging the evil.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:25 (eight years ago) link
L-R: Raccoon, Mordy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DORN50y8Cbw
― I might like you better if we Yelped together (Phil D.), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:30 (eight years ago) link
You've convinced me, raccoon. Congratulations on yr victory.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:34 (eight years ago) link
Just please at least engage with the debate on how you square your modern personal morality with the horrific teachings in the Torah? If you don't want to do that, I'll drop it.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:40 (eight years ago) link
how do you square your horrible posts with your continuing to make posts
― the fuckin catalina wine mixer (sleepingbag), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:45 (eight years ago) link
Yeah I'm just not interested in having that conversation with you. If you're interested in learning about it, I developed many of my theological beliefs, particularly re the infallibility/divinity of the Torah, from Abraham Joshua Heschel's masterwork Torah Min Shamayim. It is available in translation and will also teach you about the Talmud. If you are motivated enough to read it, I will be motivated enough to discuss it with you. xp
― Mordy, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:46 (eight years ago) link
I respect another man's beliefs, and have no interest in convincing you. It is a shame we could not have this debate. I am not an atheist, incidentally.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 19:52 (eight years ago) link
Arctic you must realize personal morality is not dictated by text referral it is through actions.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 20:29 (eight years ago) link
Hm, strange comment as of course most religious people do profess to derive their morality from holy scripture, hence their common refrains towards atheists on the subject of morality.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Wednesday, 1 April 2015 21:14 (eight years ago) link
guys I'm a Jew and an ethical anti-realist, what does the old testament say about me
― stately, plump buck angel (silby), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 22:29 (eight years ago) link
yer going in a whale
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 22:51 (eight years ago) link
veering dangerously close to #notyourgoogle here but obv its understandable
― post you had fecund thoughts about (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 April 2015 23:04 (eight years ago) link
Ok, so here's the deal with the Talmud. While the Torah (by which I mean the Chumash - the 5 books of Moses, the Old Testament, etc) was being developed in Ancient Judea there was an Oral tradition that was in development alongside it. The oral tradition had a similar kind of authority to the written, it was also considered to be "handed down at Sinai." This is understandable bc a lot of the Old Testament is literally incomprehensible w/out an oral tradition of interpretation to accompany it. For example, in the Torah it says that you should wear tefillin every day. It doesn't say anything about how the tefillin should be constructed, designed, what should be in them, how many bayitim, etc. For that you need the accompanying oral tradition. The oral tradition was also a legal coda - very frequently involving complex interpretative rules to divine particular traditional laws from texts that were often very hard to translate. To give you a sense of how this oral tradition relates to the Torah, the Torah is called the Torah sh'bichsav (the written Torah) and the oral tradition is called the Torah sh'ba'al peh (the oral Torah).
Anyway, this eventually turned into the MIshnah. Reb Yehudah HaNasi redacted a bunch of mostly legal opinions that ran the gamut from how to celebrate Rosh Hashana to how to bring an olah offering in the Temple to tort + contract law. Acc to the Talmud this was bc there was persecution of the Jews and there was a concern that the oral tradition would be broken so it needed to be written down in order to preserve it. This is like around 200 CE. These are essentially the legal perspectives and opinions of the Pharisees of the Second Temple w/ the weight of a traditional system that could supposedly be traced back to Sinai.
Around 500 CE after basically 3 centuries of trading legal opinions between the diaspora and Israel and collating this extreme repository of legal sources, the Talmudic Academies in the diaspora developed the Talmud Bavli - the Babylonian Talmud - which is a compendium of mostly legal thought about a huge range of topics - the ones mentioned above plus esoteric ones like nazirite vows, laws of marriage, divorce, kesubah, laws for damages, laws of festivals, etc, etc. (As the name suggests, there is another Talmud besides the Talmud Bavil and that's the Talmud Yerushalmi which was created a little earlier in Israel.) The authors of the Talmud (known as Amoraim, to be contrasted w/ the authors of Mishnah era texts known as Tannaim) basically spend all their time trying to reconcile differing Tannaic passages. One Rabbi says X, another Rabbi says Y, what are the ramifications for A, B, C, who argues w/ who, which texts are legitimate, whose opinions can withstand scrutiny, etc. Also exegetic work demonstrating how various laws are derived from the written Torah. The exegetic laws are sometimes logical (for example there's something called a hekesh which means that if two concepts are mentioned together then we're supposed to learn similar laws from one to the other) and sometimes unique (a gezarah shava finds two words that are the same in two totally different parts of the Old Testament and uses that to learn a principle from one to the other).
For a vast amount of this corpus these are purely theoretical questions. This year I'm learning the tractate dealing with Yoma offerings (aka Yom Kippur Temple offerings) with my father -- these very difficult, elaborate arguments about how the blood must be sprinkled, how the sacrifice must be brought. One sugya (that's the name for a particular thematic passage) that we just completed deals with the question of whether the Kohan Gadol (the high priest) must be tahor (pure), or only should be when he brings the sacrifices on Yom Kippur. If he must be pure then if he becomes impure (like touching a dead thing), we absolutely must locate a replacement. If it's only should be, then we would ideally prefer that we use someone pure but if the impure kohan brings the sacrifice it still counts. this in turn has ramifications for whether he needs to dip in the mikvah every day that he's in seclusion before yom kippur or only twice.
Also there are a number of other pieces of Jewish folklore, stories, historical anecdotes and just weird stories that make no sense unless you understand them as elaborate metaphors for esoteric concepts. These are called aggadah. Legal discussions make up about 90% of the Talmud, the aggadah are the last 10%. All these aggadah passages were all collected in a book called Ein Yaakov which has a few different translations.
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 00:07 (eight years ago) link
tldr it's mostly legal arguments in Aramaic about a few centuries of oral law that needed to be codified. also i should mention no one derives Jewish law from the Talmud at this time. Maimonidies, or the Shulchan Aruch (r yosef karo), or a variety of other compendiums are more recent and much easier to read since it isn't a bunch of rabbis arguing with each other but just a list of canonical laws.
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 00:09 (eight years ago) link
deems, it's not like I brought it up tho! i should have the right to participate in the conversation i wanted to - about what the talmud is - and not the conversation raccoon wanted to - about how to reconcile passages in the OT w/ contemporary standards of morality. he did a bait + switch.
but i will say that he asks a good question. it's such a good question that it has been asked many times before and has many, many answers + apologetics. maybe the OT text is metaphorical (some parts obv are), or maybe theoretical (many ppl don't believe a person was ever executed for adultery in the Jewish legal system - that the laws were essentially made to be subverted), or that there is a historical revelation that occurs over time and changes, or whatever I mean there are a billion explanations. the Heschel book I recommended gives one that resonates strongly for me (he writes about the lacuna between the heavenly Torah that exists beyond human language - there's a famous medrash that in the Torah b'Shamayim there are no spaces between the words - and the actual Torah the desert-dwelling tribe "received"). or maybe you think the Torah is just a transmission of Jewish mythologies and you can take what works for you and ignore what doesn't like any other historical text. for most ppl none of this is an issue bc ppl don't generally worry too much about reconciling various beliefs and we all probably hold paradoxical ideas. but in the enormous jewish corpus you can trust that ppl have grappled w/ raccoon's important question. find one that works for you, or find none and do what you want. wtf do i care about what a raccoon believes.
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 00:15 (eight years ago) link
Michalmacdonald.gif
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 April 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link
very interesting, thank you mordy
agree that behind apparent trollishness/ cluelessness there’s a not well articulated good question, but imo (speaking with very superficial knowledge of judaism) the “problems” are deeply and productively grappled with by jewish tradition & hermeneutics
i.e. some of what he sees as scriptural defects or outrages may well be part key, perhaps essential, to that scripture’s sacred, creative, philosophical, hermeneutic, ethical, even psychoanalytical depth & potential, over centuries of human history
thinking in terms of another tradition and perhaps relevant analogies, procyon lotor might consider distinction between mythos and logos (where “myth” does NOT mean “untrue” but different relation to truth) and e.g. work of ancient Greek myth and tragedy
but this topic prob more relevant to another thread
― drash, Thursday, 2 April 2015 02:01 (eight years ago) link
well let me ask, then, a diff question (of course you don't have to answer if you don't want). I've read (largely from Bart Ehrman, but also some experts in the Torah) that the reason that the Jewish faith largely rejects Christ as the Messiah is because the Messiah in the Old Testament largely described the Messiah as a great military leader that restored Israel to its chosen people, one that would not die prior to his mission being completed, and one that would be human and not a God or supernatural being. Also that he was to be descended from David. And Jesus largely met, well, none of this criteria.
What are your thoughts on this? I've always felt that Christians claiming the prophecies put forth in the OT was a case of post facto goalpost moving and fudging of details, but I've also heard that modern scholars also indicate that some of these prophecies came about in later Judaism and wasn't there from the beginning. Just find it an interesting concept.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Thursday, 2 April 2015 02:25 (eight years ago) link
i think that's pretty accurate. the only things i'd add is that the messiah also has to build the third temple, bring peace to the world, and teach the entire world about monotheism. jesus comes closest to the last of the three considering the vast numbers of ppl worldwide christianity taught some form of monotheism too. i've mentioned this elsewhere but maimonidies in the mishnah torah says that you can visit a mosque but not a church bc the former is a /true/ monotheistic religion and the latter is not. (nb some of this stuff i haven't seen in a long time so i'm not 100% sure it's in mishnah torah-- however I did find this really interesting bit:
A Muslim historian, Ibn al-Qifti (1172-1248) reports nothing less than that the Rambam himself, on numerous occasions, voluntarily went to mosques to pray [1], under no compulsion and seeing no contradiction with his Judaism. Ibn al-Qifti notes that this was towards the end of Maimonides’ life and was not an event of his youth, under fear of the Al-Mohades who had invaded Al-Andalus in his youth.[1] Kenneth Seeskin writes, in The Cambridge Companion to Maimonides, “although Ibn al-Qifti’s book has come down to us in a later recension, and contains some errors, we have no reason to doubt the information on Maimonides.”[2]Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef witnessed prominent rabbis who prayed in the Mosque at the Cave of Machpelah. He then determines decisively that in Mosques it is permitted to pray and learn there. [3][1] Tarikh al-Hukama, p. 318, trans. Kraemer in Fine, 2001. 424.[2] Kenneth Seeskin, The Cambridge Companion to Maimonides, (Cambridge University Press: 2005)[3] Responsa Yabiah Omer 7, Yoreh De'ah 12, paragraph 4.
Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef witnessed prominent rabbis who prayed in the Mosque at the Cave of Machpelah. He then determines decisively that in Mosques it is permitted to pray and learn there. [3]
[1] Tarikh al-Hukama, p. 318, trans. Kraemer in Fine, 2001. 424.[2] Kenneth Seeskin, The Cambridge Companion to Maimonides, (Cambridge University Press: 2005)[3] Responsa Yabiah Omer 7, Yoreh De'ah 12, paragraph 4.
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 03:43 (eight years ago) link
I would like to interrupt this program to remind you all that I will soon perform my annual posting of the matzoh song. You are welcome.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:04 (eight years ago) link
― quincie, Sunday, April 12, 2009 9:44 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:08 (eight years ago) link
KUDOS
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:13 (eight years ago) link
Next year I'll make some modifications. Current boss is Episcopalian. Thus far I have only had two sheets of matzah but that will change, especially after I make matzah crack.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:19 (eight years ago) link
A shame you have repeatedly decided not to be civil with me as I have with you, frequently resorting to insults simply b/c someone has a different view to your own. Is that part of your teachings?
Anyway, it is clear you have avoided the question again on morality in the Torah.
As you don't want to talk about morality, you should know of course that the Torah and OT is a book of well-worn Sumerian mythologies. The story of Moses is a retelling of Sargon of Akkad, for example. This retelling of Sumerian myths continued right through to the Gospels and Jesus. So your claim in the divinity of the words of the Torah is equally questionable. Your claim the hebrew bible is the inerrent "word of god" is simply outdated belief in modern historical theology, we know now the bible is a huge amalgamation of previous stories and legends.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:40 (eight years ago) link
Oh no.
― Bees and the Law (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 April 2015 12:50 (eight years ago) link
Aw look, he's eating garbage
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 2 April 2015 13:19 (eight years ago) link
damn raccoon you gotta learn how to read
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 13:26 (eight years ago) link
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/873/260/a5b.png
― I might like you better if we Yelped together (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 April 2015 13:30 (eight years ago) link
Thank you for that crash-course Mordy!
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 2 April 2015 14:41 (eight years ago) link
i do sincerely think raccoon's questions have merit and are worth discussing, i just don't think he's sincere about asking them. anyway, this is an interesting article from last week in Tablet about outdated morality in the Torah + Talmud. i quoted the most relevant bit but the context of the article is about the requirement to stone at the door of her father's house a woman who was discovered not to be a virgin on her wedding night. i think the author (adam kirsch) does a good job of explaining how remediation of Torah morality was already in process during the Talmudic era. i hadn't heard that bit from the Rambam before about many laws not being inherently moral but that seems relevant to me, esp since Maimonides is probably the most canonical legal scholar in the Jewish world:
Second, however, is that it seems to me the tendency of the Talmud is usually in the direction of more gender equality and more fairness, rather than less. It’s crucial to remember that the rabbis of the Talmud are not legislators; they are interpreters, bound to a legal code that in their time was more than a thousand years old. And the iron-age morality of Deuteronomy was already, for the late-Roman rabbis, something of an embarrassment. That is why, for instance, they define a na’arah very narrowly, so that the biblical restrictions and punishments applying to a “maiden” are in force for only six months out of a woman’s life. It is why they loosen the requirements for declaring an absent spouse dead, so that a widow won’t be left in a legal limbo. It is why they turn the custom of levirate marriage on its head, so that chalitza, the refusal to wed a dead brother’s wife, becomes more meritorious than going through with the marriage. It is why, finally, the death penalties that the Bible speaks of—such as stoning a licentious young woman—were actually null and void in Talmudic times, their enforcement left up to God and fate.What this suggests is that Jewish law, far from being a dead hand, is an ongoing process of negotiation between the needs of the present and the authority of the past. And of course, this negotiation continued long after the Talmud was completed. The Talmud, for instance, takes plural marriage for granted. But around the year 1000, Rabbi Gershom, the “Light of the Exile,” made monogamy binding on Ashkenazi Jews, motivated perhaps by a desire to fit in with the Christian culture surrounding them.Still, there is a difference between negotiating with the past and simply disagreeing with it—which is, perhaps, the difference between Orthodox and Conservative or Reform Jews. The problem of the agunah, the “chained” woman unable to get a divorce from her husband, arises in Orthodoxy because it is unwilling to abrogate the basic patriarchal law that only a man can grant a divorce. Other Jews abandon it happily, along with other unjust and obnoxious laws such as the prohibition of homosexuality in Leviticus.The idea that Jewish law can be unjust, that we have evolved a moral sense more complex and advanced than biblical codes can contain, is not at all a modern invention. Two thousand years ago, Philo of Alexandria was already reading the Exodus story as a philosophical allegory of individual spiritual liberation. Eight hundred years ago, Maimonides theorized that many Jewish laws were instituted solely to distinguish Judaism from paganism, not because they were inherently moral. Yet Philo and Maimonides were equally quick to insist that their revisionist explanations of Jewish law did not compromise the authority of that law: Whatever the reasons for the law, it had to be obeyed to the letter. What is modern is the idea that we have the right to legislate for ourselves. Secure in that freedom, I think it is possible to read the Talmud with the necessary combination of respect and distance.
What this suggests is that Jewish law, far from being a dead hand, is an ongoing process of negotiation between the needs of the present and the authority of the past. And of course, this negotiation continued long after the Talmud was completed. The Talmud, for instance, takes plural marriage for granted. But around the year 1000, Rabbi Gershom, the “Light of the Exile,” made monogamy binding on Ashkenazi Jews, motivated perhaps by a desire to fit in with the Christian culture surrounding them.
Still, there is a difference between negotiating with the past and simply disagreeing with it—which is, perhaps, the difference between Orthodox and Conservative or Reform Jews. The problem of the agunah, the “chained” woman unable to get a divorce from her husband, arises in Orthodoxy because it is unwilling to abrogate the basic patriarchal law that only a man can grant a divorce. Other Jews abandon it happily, along with other unjust and obnoxious laws such as the prohibition of homosexuality in Leviticus.
The idea that Jewish law can be unjust, that we have evolved a moral sense more complex and advanced than biblical codes can contain, is not at all a modern invention. Two thousand years ago, Philo of Alexandria was already reading the Exodus story as a philosophical allegory of individual spiritual liberation. Eight hundred years ago, Maimonides theorized that many Jewish laws were instituted solely to distinguish Judaism from paganism, not because they were inherently moral. Yet Philo and Maimonides were equally quick to insist that their revisionist explanations of Jewish law did not compromise the authority of that law: Whatever the reasons for the law, it had to be obeyed to the letter. What is modern is the idea that we have the right to legislate for ourselves. Secure in that freedom, I think it is possible to read the Talmud with the necessary combination of respect and distance.
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 14:42 (eight years ago) link
i was wondering when the sea lion strip was gonna show up
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 April 2015 19:52 (eight years ago) link
interesting summaries Mordy, thx. much better than your interlocutor deserved.
― goole, Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:26 (eight years ago) link
Otm I now know more about the Talmud than I ever did before probably.
― stately, plump buck angel (silby), Thursday, 2 April 2015 20:31 (eight years ago) link
Morty I read the article, and it seems the author merely acknowledged the morality question, but did not answer it. The fact is, this is the end of the religion, it simply has no place in today's modern people, and you will see that it will fade. In fact you can see that it has faded, in the government and politicans of Israel itself, it's simply just morphed into nationalism. Which is perhaps more dangerous.
― Arctic Noon Auk, Thursday, 2 April 2015 22:10 (eight years ago) link
ok
― Mordy, Thursday, 2 April 2015 22:11 (eight years ago) link
Merry pesach, Jews! All matzah, no trolls.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 2 April 2015 22:22 (eight years ago) link
Moshe Oysher singing Chad Gadya:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4LSdALxpI
― Mordy, Friday, 3 April 2015 17:47 (eight years ago) link
Morty I read the article, and it seems the author merely acknowledged the morality question, but did not answer it.
If it was anyone else I'd assume 'Morty' was a mistake...
― Bees and the Law (Tom D.), Friday, 3 April 2015 17:59 (eight years ago) link
The divine compassion is evidenced by extreme eagerness to save man from condemnation. "Though nine hundred and ninety-nine angels attest for a man's conviction and only one angel attests for his defence, the Holy One, blessed be He, inclines the scales in his favour". When, however, He is compelled by justice to exact punishment from evil-doers, He does so with regret and pain. Noble expression is given to this thought in the legend that at the overthrow of the Egyptians by the Red Sea, the ministering angels wished to offer a song of triumph to God; but He checked them, saying: "The work of My hands is drowned in the sea, and you would offer Me a song!"Everyman's Talmud, Abraham Cohen, p. 19
Love the Talmud so far! Thought this was a great passage. Happy Pesach!
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 3 April 2015 23:10 (eight years ago) link
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2015/04/03/397255528/bitter-herbs-and-collard-greens-an-african-american-seder-plate-for-passover
― 龜, Friday, 3 April 2015 23:30 (eight years ago) link
this is pretty fantastic:http://rokhl.blogspot.com/2015/04/why-isn-thing.html
― Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 01:19 (eight years ago) link
v interesting piece; was completely ignorant re complicated ashkenazi/ sephardic dynamic cool how her critique of the ashkenormativity article in a way takes the form of a derridean move (though not deconstructive but historical): opposition between two terms (one privileged)--> opposition within one (the ostensibly privileged) term---> which constructs its privilege upon identification with the original ostensibly 'other' term
or something like that
― drash, Friday, 17 April 2015 15:38 (eight years ago) link
she gets at something that bugs me a lot which is that a lot of these political discursive moves require a tremendous flattening of historical/cultural context to make them work. i'm not a big fan of any construct that reduces complexity/nuance.
― Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 15:45 (eight years ago) link
i completely agree
coincidentally (before reading yr post) was considering adding a ps noting that my schematic was simplistically "flattening" her argument
was going to try to write something in this post re how postpoststructuralist critique (or whatever we're getting now) often seems ironically in its way as formulaic, simplistic, illusionary as the politico-metaphysica schemas that postructuralism worked to unravel/ complicate
but it turned to mush
anyway key here is not structure but history (with its complexities, contingencies, particularities, shades, etc)
― drash, Friday, 17 April 2015 16:09 (eight years ago) link
btw just starting the heschel book (will be slow going because catching up with old testament too); will let you know thoughts/ questions (in some corner of ilx)
― drash, Friday, 17 April 2015 16:24 (eight years ago) link
last night at dinner my daughter asked me "what the story is with hell" - that led to an interesting discussion (mostly predicated along the lines of Catholicism is weird and crazy and Judaism doesn't concern itself much with the afterlife, when we die Jews go to hang out with God)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:41 (eight years ago) link
I may have oversold that last bit given how little it's actually addressed in the tanakh
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:44 (eight years ago) link
i like the idea of "what is the story with hell" being something a kid ad-libs at a seder to freak out gramma
― Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 17 April 2015 19:44 (eight years ago) link
it was a funny conversation. my daughter has a penchant for doing this, asking me to explain some big conceptual thing towards the end of dinner. I guess she's come across enough references to the devil (classmates, books, comics, cartoons etc.) to start wondering where the character comes from and how it relates to conceptions of the afterlife. and it is all pretty fascinating but I made it clear I thought it was also all 100% Christian nonsense, not to be taken literally/seriously.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:48 (eight years ago) link
mishnaic literature does talk about gehenna as a place where ur sins are purified before you can enter olam haba, but ur right it's barely touched upon in the tanakh - the famous allusion to the afterlife in the tanakh is Genesis 25:8 by yitzchak who the verse says was "gathered unto his people," which seems euphemistic but also particularly suggests to me some kind of ancestral afterlife. the reason i always heard for the lack of afterlife talk in the bible is bc judaism's focus is on repairing this world and turning it into a home for god - whereas christianity + islam are focused on the world to come. i do think this is a major theological break + the sorta subtext for original sin in christianity which can never be solved, so the best you can do is believe + enjoy god in the afterlife. by contrast the major focus in judaism is the age of the messiah when all the earth has been repaired + made divine.
― Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:51 (eight years ago) link
is it really cool to raise your kid with that kind of mocking contempt for other religions?
― circa1916, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:53 (eight years ago) link
like tellingly in the 13 principles of faith maimonidies mentions, "the belief in divine reward and retribution," which could refer to heaven/hell or could just refer to this world, and then "The belief in the arrival of the Messiah and the messianic era," followed by "The belief in the resurrection of the dead," the last two of which are completely concerned w/ this world. none of the principles say anything about having to believe in heaven or hell.
― Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 19:53 (eight years ago) link
when I'm answering questions from a 7yo about whether the devil is literally, physically real, then it's not so much mocking contempt as being honest. the devil is not a literal person that is going to punish her and take her to hell for being a bad person (no matter what Antonin Scalia says). I consider it my responsibility to educate her in the traditions of her culture (Judaism) and to give her my honest views. The devil is definitely a Christian construct, and as such I felt it was my job to point out to her that it's not an idea I or our family or Jews give any credence to. I did discuss some of the more interesting stories that center around the devil (Faust, Dante's Inferno, to a lesser extent the Book of Job, etc.) She gets a lot of second-hand Catholic stuff from kids at school so I do my best to provide some context to what she hears, deferring to my (primarily lapsed) Catholic in-laws on the finer points.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 20:01 (eight years ago) link
good point about Maimonides Mordy. Yeah I haven't gotten into any non-Tanakh stuff with her - she's only 7 and just in her first year of sunday school so this has been her first exposure to a lot of non-holiday-specific biblical stories and theological ideas
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 20:04 (eight years ago) link
outis, so cool that conversations with your daughter are intellectually fascinating/ challenging for the both of you, you're lucky to have each other as interlocutors
mordy, sorry for referring to tanakh as old testament, that was faux pas (more dumb of me than offensive i guess?)
― drash, Friday, 17 April 2015 20:50 (eight years ago) link
tanakh = acronym for torah, neviim (prophets) and ksuvim (writings)OT generally refers I think only to Torah portion but OT isn't a Jewish idiom (obv bc you can only have an OT if u have a NT) so idk it could maybe include all of tanakh
― Mordy, Friday, 17 April 2015 20:53 (eight years ago) link
huh wiki on the OT is p interesting - actually the OT includes a bunch of stuff (to varying degrees depending on the denomination) *not* in the Tanakh
― Οὖτις, Friday, 17 April 2015 21:01 (eight years ago) link
― circa1916, Friday, April 17, 2015 8:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he said he made clear his thoughts on the matter, not that he made it a matter of doctrine or stated it as fact to his child. plus, well, he's not wrong.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Saturday, 18 April 2015 01:13 (eight years ago) link
Christianity should be mocked and ridiculed more IMHO but then again it just plays into the martyr complex that some of that sect already has so...
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Saturday, 18 April 2015 01:14 (eight years ago) link
might be more balanced to clarify that nothing in any jewish holy book is actually physically true either
― een, Saturday, 18 April 2015 13:34 (eight years ago) link
We werent discussing any jewish texts. If she had asked me if moses was a real person i'd be inclinex to say yes. If she'd asked me if jacob really wrestled an angel i would've explained it as a metaphor.
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 18 April 2015 14:27 (eight years ago) link
i was about to joke that while i'm sure shakey won't mislead his kid re the veracity of the torah, i intend to, and to dismiss the teachings of christianity so yell at me. but then i started thinking about 'truth' as it pertains to holy scripture + divinity and how 'this is what i believe' differs from 'this is what our ppl believe,' the latter inaugurating a person into a larger community that contains various nuances for what meaning is, what truth is, etc, but that uses particular texts as the foundation for these discourses. like is there a huge difference between 'the revelation at mount sinai definitely happened and it was the event that formally established the ppl of israel' and 'for the last 2 thousand years jews have lived + died as part of a people who trace their constitution to the revelation at mount sinai'? i suppose the former matters more if you're a certain kind of historian or an atheist but the latter is really what 'belief' means in a faith community: 'this is what we're about.' and re christianity, it isn't just as absurd as judaism bc it has been the largest antagonistic body to judaism, a theology that claimed to supersede the beliefs of judaism, that contradicted the fundamental tenants of idol worship w/ its innovation re the son of god, and who has been responsible for the deaths of many jews over the last 2k years. it's 'more false,' not bc it's less historically accurate, but bc it is (or for the most part was) a direct threat to 'what our ppl believe.' nb this gets into a certain kind of tribalism that is probably even more problematic for modern secularism/liberalism than believing patently absurd stories, but i think it does explain why story absurdity doesn't really bother most religious ppl. it's less important what i believe and more what i believe the people around me believe (or more what i believe my parents believe).
― Mordy, Saturday, 18 April 2015 14:51 (eight years ago) link
^that's why i felt referring to tanakh as old testament was faux pas on my part: not just re accuracy of denotation, but referring to sacred jewish text(s) with terminology of Christianity, i.e. as inscribed within Christian framework which presumed both to appropriate & supersede those texts
(faux pas for me especially because i’m not a Christian)
― drash, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:16 (eight years ago) link
btw drash, i meant to mention to you that the chapter in heschel's prophets "prophecy and psychosis" is exceptionally good and even worth jumping ahead too (esp if you find the early prophet-specific chapters slow going)
― Mordy, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:29 (eight years ago) link
Yes the "this is what our people believe" is the framework i'm trying to provide. It's def tribal but that's the way the world is.
Xp
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:30 (eight years ago) link
even for a non-believer like me it is easy to tell how fucked with the original prophecies were by butthurt Johannine folk who couldn't rectify that the "Messiah" had been killed. But it's still fascinating, from a historical perspective, to read about the evolution of Christianity over time, particularly Bart Ehrman's books. I just ordered "When Jesus Became God", but I find that "Jesus, Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millenium" was my favorite.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:33 (eight years ago) link
but, if I ever *have* kids (looking lesser and lesser likely by the day) it's not like I'd disown them for being religious. But if any one of my damn Black Sabbath albums went missing on account of that they'd be sent to Siberia.
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:34 (eight years ago) link
(thanks for chapter rec; might read it in advance of getting there; but enjoying early chapters v much so far)
― drash, Saturday, 18 April 2015 15:46 (eight years ago) link
x-post--Ha ha. "Dad, you are a heathen and I had to smash your Black Sabbath albums"
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:02 (eight years ago) link
― Mordy, Saturday, April 18, 2015 9:51 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i think all this is repulsive, guess that's my tribe
― een, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:09 (eight years ago) link
fwiw i don't think christians or atheists are repulsive. i just don't think that their beliefs are my beliefs. if we're really going to talk tribalism, i guess we need to talk about being pro intertribal relations and being pro abolishing the tribes.
― Mordy, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:12 (eight years ago) link
bc i'm not embarrassed to say that i prefer the former to the latter
― Mordy, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:13 (eight years ago) link
no i do too, just physical empirical verifiable truth is not something i can compromise
― een, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:15 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCR-yOoWJjI
l,r een, mordy
― nakhchivan, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:18 (eight years ago) link
― drash, Saturday, 18 April 2015 16:43 (eight years ago) link
no i do too, just physical empirical verifiable truth is not something i can compromise― een, Saturday, April 18, 2015 12:15 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― een, Saturday, April 18, 2015 12:15 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Who is asking you to compromise physical empirical verifiable truth? The 'repulsive' thing is to ignore history. How can you be for physical empirical verifiable truth and also be for throwing out evidence?
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 18 April 2015 21:02 (eight years ago) link
thread needs more tanuki
― Premise ridiculous. Who have two potato? (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 18 April 2015 23:29 (eight years ago) link
you would totally feel Gizmo after midnight, wouldn't you
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Sunday, 19 April 2015 05:13 (eight years ago) link
ew
― Οὖτις, Monday, 20 April 2015 16:37 (eight years ago) link
omg *feed* not feel. *smh*
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Tuesday, 21 April 2015 02:16 (eight years ago) link
http://www.npr.org/2015/05/16/406967291/1-000-songs-from-holocaust-survivors-archived
― Mordy, Saturday, 16 May 2015 22:20 (eight years ago) link
http://blog.sefaria.org/2015/05/18/how-much-of-tanach-is-in-the-talmud/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 19 May 2015 19:48 (eight years ago) link
neat. wonder if one could (or i assume one might) derive some hermeneutic significance from variation in percentage...?
― drash, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 03:07 (eight years ago) link
absolutely. leviticus is the most cited + also the part of tanach most concerned w/ ritual + legal practice. esther is really high (56.89% cited) but i bet most of that is in tractate megillah - the one that deals w/ all the laws of purim (and all the associated stories). probably lots of connections to make, esp if you could better map which parts are cited in which tractates.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 20 May 2015 03:44 (eight years ago) link
my local federation paper just laid off its entire editorial staff :(http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150604_Philadelphia_s_Jewish_Exponent_lays_off_its_local_editorial_team.html
― Mordy, Thursday, 4 June 2015 13:26 (eight years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/how-the-talmud-became-a-best-seller-in-south-korea?intcid=mod-yml
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 00:40 (eight years ago) link
like tellingly in the 13 principles of faith maimonidies mentions, "the belief in divine reward and retribution,"
I've been teaching my kids that in Judaism we do good things because they're good and we're commanded to do them, not because we'll be rewarded for doing them or punished for not doing them. But maybe I'm just wrong about this? I feel like I'm constantly revealing the spottiness of my Jewish education in this thread.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 03:15 (eight years ago) link
nah that's a valid angle
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 15:33 (eight years ago) link
belief in divine reward and retribution does not necessarily imply that there's a clear-cut commodity-exchange type of relationship between God and people. God is ultimately unfathomable, after all
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 15:35 (eight years ago) link
different groups emphasize different things. When I went to a Litvish yeshiva they definitely emphasized the idea of schar v'onesh (punishment + reward) and that's a well-known trope in non-chassidic ultra orthodoxy. my family's particular chassidic sect downplays it in favor of tikkun olam type ideas (dirah b'tachtonim - making the world here a fit dwelling place for g-d) so it doesn't have a huge amount of currency in my community but it's obv still one of the articles of faith so you can't dismiss it entirely.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 17:37 (eight years ago) link
Yeah I like that idea, do good things not anticipating a reward, but because they are good in themselves.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 24 June 2015 17:54 (eight years ago) link
Kant ennit
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 24 June 2015 17:57 (eight years ago) link
wow I totally missed this whole "shellfish in the NY water supply" controversy
wonder what the rabbinical reasoning was in allowing it
― Οὖτις, Friday, 26 June 2015 18:06 (eight years ago) link
http://forward.com/news/breaking-news/310997/global-jewish-population-nears-pre-holocaust-level/
― Mordy, Friday, 26 June 2015 22:46 (eight years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/how-the-talmud-became-a-best-seller-in-south-korea?intcid=mod-yml― Mordy, Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:40 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy, Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:40 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's kind of sad, but my heart gets lighter every time i read a news story about jews in a foreign country and it's /not/ about anti-semitism
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 26 June 2015 23:46 (eight years ago) link
although....
Other Jews I spoke to were concerned that Tokayer’s Talmud was helping popularize Jewish stereotypes in South Korea. Even positive stereotypes, some said, can be dangerous. As Dan Sneider, the associate director for research at the Walter H. Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center at Stanford, and a former congregant of Tokayer’s synagogue in Japan, put it, “The line between ‘Jews, aren’t they incredible’ and ‘Jews, aren’t they somehow dangerous and sinister’ can be pretty thin,” particularly in countries like South Korea and Japan, where the dearth of Jews means they are essentially “an abstraction.”
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 26 June 2015 23:52 (eight years ago) link
i had no idea julia wertz was in the new yorker!
― like a giraffe of nah (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 27 June 2015 02:44 (eight years ago) link
http://www.timesofisrael.com/ashkenazi-jews-descend-from-350-people-study-finds/
― Mordy, Monday, 13 July 2015 17:23 (eight years ago) link
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/study-finds-close-genetic-connection-between-jews-kurds-1.75273
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 September 2015 13:51 (eight years ago) link
Shana tova, Jews!
I went to services today. How do Abraham and Sarah and God get off being such jerks to Hagar and Ishmael? I mean I have only dabbled in reading the Hebrew Bible but WTF, Abraham and Sarah seem like kind of awful ppl but God's all like "it's cool you are my chosen ppl*"
Anyhow, tonight's Rosh Hoshanna meal chez quincie is bratwurst with mustard and sauerkraut on challah. Yeah yeah yeah I know I'm not doing it right.
*to be fair I go to services at a Reconstructionist synagogue, and the Reconstructionists have written the "chosen ppl" bit out of their siddur.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 14 September 2015 22:56 (eight years ago) link
also the sermon was 100% about Black Lives Matter.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Monday, 14 September 2015 22:57 (eight years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Monday, 14 September 2015 23:01 (eight years ago) link
We had a great sermon from the rabbi emeritus re: the binding of Isaac and an interpretation that Abraham heard two voices, each reasonably purporting to be the voice of God, one saying to sacrifice Isaac, the other commanding him to free him, forcing him to choose the kind of God he wanted to serve. Sermon perhaps peaked when he declared he'd rather spend an eternity in hell with Gandhi than in heaven with Fred Phelps.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 14 September 2015 23:20 (eight years ago) link
Shanah tovah! I kinda wanted to go to services, but didn't, b/c I still haven't yet out here.
― go hang a salami I'm a canal, adam (silby), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 00:40 (eight years ago) link
I've come to the conclusion that trying to read the OT as a set of modern moral lessons is a fool's errand. Fascinating bunch of stories though.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 01:08 (eight years ago) link
I'm actually a huge fan of scholars using the OT as a sort of jumping off point, chiseling modern moral lessons out of big blocks of wtf. Certainly literal interpretations are dead ends, so I'm not even sure what application the OT even has beyond setting the stage for fruitful further discussion.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 13:34 (eight years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, September 14, 2015 6:20 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha I was at services with you! That rabbi was pretty good. The shofar player was pretty weak though. Also was not expecting 3 hours o_o
― bnw, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 13:47 (eight years ago) link
shofar was weak like clock radio speakers
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Tuesday, 15 September 2015 14:22 (eight years ago) link
lets just say his "tekiah gedolah" made me think he needs help blowing out birthday candles (ohsnap)
― bnw, Tuesday, 15 September 2015 14:27 (eight years ago) link
Hey Mordy, in particular, but also others -- is there a Jewish theological basis for the idea of a "holy site"? I've been thinking about that a lot in light of the temple mount, and I've been wondering whether placing too much emphasis on a specific site is akin to idolatry. Of course this assumes that religion has any internal consistency at all.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2015 20:20 (eight years ago) link
the simple answer is yes. the temple mount is the best example of a holy site in judaism - supposedly the closest place to G-d on earth - and even today jews are not supposed to enter the place where the holy of holies was located. also during prayer you're supposed to face in the direction of the temple mount. beth-el also a holy spot where jacob supposedly slept on the stone. tombs of the righteous also traditionally considered holy (tho iirc there is some dispute about exactly what that means) so that would be hamaras hamachpalah in hebron, kever rachel, joseph's tomb, etc. there's definitely a 'holy sites' basis in judaism - though what that exactly means for sites other than the temple mount is probably subject of some dispute? even rabbis today who say jews should not go up to the temple mount don't say it's bc it's idolatry or the wrong emphasis but bc it's too holy. and of course "israel" is the ultimate holy site in that there are a host of mitzvot that you can't even perform unless you're in the holy land.
― Mordy, Thursday, 29 October 2015 20:31 (eight years ago) link
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/195668/in-or-out-the-spinoza-case
like pete rose here
― j., Wednesday, 9 December 2015 19:36 (eight years ago) link
interesting, thanks for the link.
― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Thursday, 10 December 2015 07:46 (eight years ago) link
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/195697/the-tag-of-her-earlobe-that-died-from-lord-and-taylor
Tag Tanuchah Shemet everyone!
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Thursday, 10 December 2015 18:59 (eight years ago) link
i ate way too many sufganiyot this year. i won't even say how many bc it's humiliating. at shul last night they had a donut making bar and i went nuts.
― Mordy, Thursday, 10 December 2015 19:04 (eight years ago) link
We found out that our favorite local Israeli/Eastern-Euro grocery carries REEEEALLLY good sufganiyot.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Thursday, 10 December 2015 19:06 (eight years ago) link
my daughter made sufganiyot at the temple's Hannukah thing this year, which I think briefly made my wife regret not coming lol
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 December 2015 19:09 (eight years ago) link
good news jews!http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-vatican-document-says-church-doesn-t-seek-conversion-of-the-jews-1449784616
― Mordy, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:28 (eight years ago) link
Excellent
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 December 2015 16:49 (eight years ago) link
weirdest thing about the document:
Jews are saved through Christ but in a mysterious way that we dont see. Conclusion of document is that Christian should relate to Jews as "people of God of Jews and Gentiles, united in Christ."
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:37 (eight years ago) link
The "Church understands God's eternal covenant with Jews as being part of God's eternal covenant with the Church."
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:38 (eight years ago) link
why is that weird? provided that your point isn't simply your belief that theological declarations are weird. I mean I'm not gonna take the time to spell out Catholic theology here but the view is readily sensible within the Catholic tradition of thinking of the Church as a collective body ("body" in a organic sense, not just an extensional "set of people").
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:46 (eight years ago) link
it's definitely weird, even from the Church's POV. that you can be saved through Christ and a part of the covenant with the Church through your rejection of Christ and the Church? that's why they call it a mystery.
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:48 (eight years ago) link
ok yes if that's all you mean then fine, it is a mystery.gif. but Catholics talk about mystery every week.
since vatican 2 the Church does not take Jews to have rejected Christ. this is just spelling that out a little further. not up to "scientific precision" I guess but if that's the standard
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:53 (eight years ago) link
how do they understand this in light of inerrancy of the NT and passages that seem to totally contradict the idea that the Jews did not reject Christ? it that part of the mystery?
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 16:57 (eight years ago) link
fwiw i asked a professor friend in the field and he says: There is a huge literature of new readings of the NT that downplay the dualism of Jew vs Christian. Much of it relies of rhetorical criticism saying that the verse was based on a fight with a specific group of Jews and does not include Jews as a whole. Some of it is based on reconceptualization as to what a verse like that could mean to a Jewish speaker which the apostles were. There are many other strategies used to explain the texts. Texts like Revelation are the easy ones via rhetroical criticism, the lines in the Pauline texts are harder. But all of this is part and parcel of a broader modern reading of the Bible. The same was Hirsch or Hertz dealt with a score of issues including science with the net result is a modern reading of the Jewish Bible, the Catholic Church is dealing with a broad number of issues in their 21st century reading.
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:10 (eight years ago) link
that seems otm. I would say that those readings go back to vatican 2 so aren't specifically 21st century but the point still stands.
think "inerrancy" is too strong an attribution to a historical text. Catholics aren't Muslims (or Protestants): the texts were written by human authors and they must be interpreted.
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:27 (eight years ago) link
also re. "rejection": it is one thing to say something, and another to do something. the acts of the Jews are to be seen as in line with the NT, if not their words. putting a lot of emphasis on "belief", attitudes toward propositions, etc., is again a rather Protestant take on Christianity.
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
what is the status of the catholic canon? is it divinely inspired? do the pauline texts have more force than the later ones in terms of necessary fidelity?
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:29 (eight years ago) link
what do you mean by "the catholic canon"? Augustine? Aquinas? Newman? papal declarations? there's not really anything equivalent to the Midrash or to hadiths.
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:31 (eight years ago) link
i really meant the canonical NT
― Mordy, Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:35 (eight years ago) link
as seen by the catholic church
hmm then still confused, what do you mean by the texts later than Paul's?
I mean yeah the idea is that the texts are divinely inspired but that doesn't mean they're so clear that anyone who reads them will understand them right away. the latter view is what fundamentalists (by definition in fact) believe, and Catholics aren't fundamentalist.
― droit au butt (Euler), Sunday, 13 December 2015 17:46 (eight years ago) link
more on the topic:https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2015/12/15/the-gifts-and-calling-of-god-are-irrevocable-another-jewish-perspective/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 15 December 2015 19:13 (eight years ago) link
my daughter's mixed media har sinai for parshat yisro
http://i.imgur.com/hoFNmqU.jpg?1
― Mordy, Friday, 29 January 2016 18:48 (eight years ago) link
Sheep ❤️
― petulant dick master (silby), Friday, 29 January 2016 19:23 (eight years ago) link
Oh wait those are clouds nm
― petulant dick master (silby), Friday, 29 January 2016 19:24 (eight years ago) link
Mordy maybe you have thoughts on this: my daughter's gan is in a conservative synagogue, but her teacher is orthodox. I feel like sometimes the teacher is crossing the line into orthodox territory, for example telling them that boys wear tzitzit (or at least that's what K came home and told me -- maybe it was just because there's a boy in her class who wears them).
Also she talks to them a lot about "davening to Hashem" and I just feel like a threes class is a little early for that.
(1) Do you think it's appropriate? (2) Do you think it's pointless to say something to the director about it?
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 29 January 2016 19:36 (eight years ago) link
My girls go to a Chabad school so they're being exposed to all that and more and I've definitely had conversations with my 4yo about things we believe and how they might differ from what her morah said. I suspect my tolerance (and total acceptability) threshold for Orthodox hashkafa is much higher than yours in general, but we are not fully observant so she knows that we do some things differently than what they do at school. I feel like that some level of critical interaction about what they're getting at school is probably going to be necessary whether they continue in Jewish schools or go to the public schools (about which we are undecided). I should probably mention also that not all the Chabad teachers are Orthodox (my 2yo's is non-observant) so it's not even like they are only be exposed to one context for Jewishness at school either. Maybe they've taken pains to have it that way because they are trying to attract a broader student body, ie they don't see their target audience as homogenous even though they are definitely privileging certain Orthonorms.
― Mordy, Friday, 29 January 2016 19:49 (eight years ago) link
So I guess my answer is: I think it's probably fine but if it bothers you I imagine the conservative director will be sympathetic to your concern.
― Mordy, Friday, 29 January 2016 19:51 (eight years ago) link
http://forward.com/news/333986/uganda-rabbi-wins-opposition-seat-in-parliament-as-authoritarian-leader-cli/
On February 19, Rabbi Gershom Sizomu, the spiritual leader of the century-old Abayudaya Jewish community, was named the winner in a heated race among eight candidates, including two main rivals from Uganda’s ruling National Resistance Movement party. Sizomu, who ran with the main opposition party, will represent Bungokho North, a rural district outside the town of Mbale, about an hour’s drive from the Kenyan border.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 24 February 2016 22:02 (eight years ago) link
Wow, interesting.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 24 February 2016 23:49 (eight years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/27/world/middleeast/woman-81-to-sue-israeli-airline-over-seat-switch.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&module=MostPopularFB&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article
Ms. Rabinowitz has since had time to ponder. She said her son told her that “this whole idea that you cannot sit next to a woman is bogus.” She cited an eminent Orthodox scholar, Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, who counseled that it was acceptable for a Jewish man to sit next to a woman on a subway or a bus so long as there was no intention to seek sexual pleasure from any incidental contact.
“When did modesty become the sum and end all of being a Jewish woman?” Ms. Rabinowitz asked. Citing examples like the biblical warrior Deborah, the matriarch Sarah and Queen Esther, she noted: “Our heroes in history were not modest little women.”
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 27 February 2016 00:41 (eight years ago) link
very otm. charedi obsession w/ modesty/gender separation is so unappealing. and all just ad hoc bullshit w/ little to no traditional-textual validity
― Mordy, Saturday, 27 February 2016 00:46 (eight years ago) link
i strongly remember a time when a haredi guy was selling his paintings on the street in NYC and my mom and i approached him with interest. when she spoke to him, he looked right past her and didn't respond in the slightest. when i said something he smiled and started talking to me. i don't know how common that sort of thing is -- how many haredi forbid even the slightest social contact between a man and a woman who is not a relation?
― wizzz! (amateurist), Saturday, 27 February 2016 02:59 (eight years ago) link
btw ms. rabinowitz sounds like a really awesome person.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Saturday, 27 February 2016 03:10 (eight years ago) link
i don't know exact numbers but there's a spectrum. the charedi communities i participated in skewed much more to the permissive side (though unmarried singles were still actively discouraged from fraternizing outside of shidduch dating). but there are more fundamentalist communities in the united states - satmar seems like the most obvious one. from what i understand there's a spectrum in israel too but that extends much more to the right than the one in the US (like the haredi burqa sect is exclusively found in israel).
― Mordy, Saturday, 27 February 2016 04:06 (eight years ago) link
eg the litvish (ie non-chassidic) yeshiva i went to for high school was moshe feinstein's (mentioned in the article u posted) yeshiva. so even though boys and girls were educationally and socially segregated, and pretty much men only fraternize with men and women with women and the gender roles are very formal, he still was lenient on issues of like professional and formal association between genders. iirc though touching someone of the opposite gender at all (that's not a marriage or a family member) is disallowed but he ruled that you could shake a woman's hand in a business setting (especially if she would be offended if you begged off), or that sitting next to a woman on public transportation is not an issue. i mean obviously this is still hardcore gender segregation.
― Mordy, Saturday, 27 February 2016 04:10 (eight years ago) link
i watched this and found it very moving
http://www.timesofisrael.com/dustin-hoffman-finally-meets-his-jewish-roots/
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 11 March 2016 06:18 (eight years ago) link
hey jews anyone seen a play called bad jews?
― conrad, Friday, 11 March 2016 09:42 (eight years ago) link
Yes, and I hated it. Over-rated, clichéd, ugh
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 March 2016 20:24 (eight years ago) link
I can kind of tell from the title what it will be like and why I won't like it.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 11 March 2016 20:35 (eight years ago) link
Irreverent Jew humor gets tiresome after a while because the stakes of irreverence are so low in all but the most Orthodox Jewish circles.
Harmon’s portrait of Daphna, the lone Jewish woman on stage, and by extension all Jewish women, relies on retrogade anti–Jewish woman tropes — nagging voice, excessive hairiness. That “Bad Jews” was written by a young Jewish playwright makes this feel like even more of a betrayal. Jewish leaders ruing the Pew study might want more Jews to be like Daphna, who decries intermarriage, values her Jewishness and doesn’t want it to be watered down in future generations. But Harmon has made her so unlikable — rigid, self-righteous, whiny. Even her womanliness is questioned: She is depicted as so undesirable that Jonah agrees that her Israel boyfriend must be a figment of her imagination.
sounds gross
― Mordy, Friday, 11 March 2016 20:40 (eight years ago) link
Yeah actually sounds worse than I imagined, although that's definitely a common cliché to the kind of bad Jewish comedy I'm thinking of.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 11 March 2016 21:03 (eight years ago) link
I've always liked Jewish women though, to the extent you can generalizingly "like" any entire group of women, and a lot of the negative stereotypes read as positive traits to me - strength, concern, lack of pretense, etc.
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Friday, 11 March 2016 21:05 (eight years ago) link
Sadly this got good reviews in Washington DC papers last year, so the run got extended, and then they brought it back again this year.
The airhead Christian blonde girlfriend of another character in the play is formulaic as well
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 March 2016 21:23 (eight years ago) link
it sounds like the playwright ends up shipping Daphna out to Israel in the end. if that's his hope for getting rid of all the annoying hung-up on being jewish jews, i think he's setting himself up for disappointment
― Mordy, Friday, 11 March 2016 21:34 (eight years ago) link
I've always liked Jewish women though, to the extent you can generalizingly "like" any entire group of wome
i'd say that this extent is... no extent.
i have a lot of awful overentitled jewish girls in my classes, and lots of smart, sharp jewish girls too. there are definitely "types" within the overall group, but to characterize it beyond that, i dunno. weird.
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 11 March 2016 23:14 (eight years ago) link
saw it earlier this week I thought it was a very very bad play like an average episode of a bad sitcom actually left about a little after halfway through which I don't think I've ever done before
― conrad, Friday, 11 March 2016 23:21 (eight years ago) link
disappointed there have not been any '"Bad Jews", Bad!' headlines about this tbh
― Οὖτις, Friday, 11 March 2016 23:23 (eight years ago) link
I kinda enjoyed Bad Jews but more as a light Saturday matinee entertainment and not some tour de force of theater
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 12 March 2016 01:11 (eight years ago) link
Somehow it only dawned on me for the first time this year that Achashverosh was a real fucking imbecile of a king.
― human life won't become a cat (man alive), Thursday, 24 March 2016 04:24 (eight years ago) link
Just a complete putz basically.
― petulant dick master (silby), Thursday, 24 March 2016 04:59 (eight years ago) link
Drunken, fickle, easy to manipulate, no discernible policies or values other than partying, and misogynist too
― human life won't become a cat (man alive), Thursday, 24 March 2016 12:17 (eight years ago) link
Hamentashen are tasty
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:11 (eight years ago) link
in addition to executing his wife for refusing to appear naked in front of his friends there's a midrash that the entire party the opens the megillah was really just an excuse to use the temple vessels that had been looted from jerusalem
― Mordy, Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:14 (eight years ago) link
Wow.
___________________________________
Some grocery stores around here have been displaying Passover food now, because they just assume that since Easter is Sunday, Passover must be right now too. Wonder if they will realize they have to leave it up through the end of April? Or will they remove it Monday?
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:15 (eight years ago) link
I find that grocery stores that bother carrying any Passover stuff around here carry it year-round, as if someone is going to buy matzo in July.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:26 (eight years ago) link
The thing is, there are totally non-Jews out there who eat matzo when they don't have to. IDGI but go explain the goyim
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:29 (eight years ago) link
Matzah available year round is nice for when I find myself with the urge to make matzah brei
― petulant dick master (silby), Thursday, 24 March 2016 15:46 (eight years ago) link
Sometimes I have seen "Not Kosher for Passover Matzah" year-round and yes I guess there are Goyim who go for that
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 24 March 2016 17:25 (eight years ago) link
Some grocery stores around here have been displaying Passover food now, because they just assume that since Easter is Sunday, Passover must be right now too. Wonder if they will realize they have to leave it up through the end of April? Or will they remove it Monday?― curmudgeon, Thursday, March 24, 2016 10:15 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― curmudgeon, Thursday, March 24, 2016 10:15 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i was wondering about that, too. local grocer put the passover food out two weeks ago! I did a double take and thought perhaps i had forgotten the date. (didn't stop me from bringing some macaroons home, though.)
― wizzz! (amateurist), Thursday, 24 March 2016 18:34 (eight years ago) link
guys i find the ivanka phenomenon so confusing + i have so many conflicting thoughts on it and what it means about america and about the jews (and what it means that trump is using classical fascist imagery about birth + fertility when speaking about jewish grandchildren) but atm i just want to say that she has some v cute kids:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDUW0QhikCD/?taken-by=ivankatrump&hl=en
― Mordy, Friday, 25 March 2016 15:53 (eight years ago) link
tell us more about the classic fascist imagery, think I missed this
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 25 March 2016 15:55 (eight years ago) link
well, just in his speech to aipac he made some comment about how ivanka is going to have her jewish baby very soon and this kind of political elision between the personal birth/fertility as a stand-in for political national health has a tradition. this is in addition to the many times that trump has used his own health + fertility as a stand-in for a kind of nationalist power (i saw a lot of speculation that this was the dog whistle behind him talking about the size of his genitalia). maybe i'm reading too much into it but talking about babies + birth in political speech reminds me a lot of hitlerian propaganda such as
http://www.crestock.com/uploads/blog/2008/propagandaposters_de/20.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 25 March 2016 15:58 (eight years ago) link
this is a big genre btw i'm not just picking + choosing one poster
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b7/83/f7/b783f79bd5b14685510ed21cdb4092d4.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/13/a0/17/13a017609f1de94c6d4d2845da397d21.jpg
http://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/womensmagazine.jpg
― Mordy, Friday, 25 March 2016 16:00 (eight years ago) link
I doubt Trump's even aware of that but his AIPAC audience probably was and it was definitely a gross moment
― Οὖτις, Friday, 25 March 2016 16:03 (eight years ago) link
i don't think trump needs to be aware of it to basically embody much the same ideology
in fact being aware of it would be a hindrance
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 25 March 2016 16:59 (eight years ago) link
I like the idea of Trump independently stumbling upon Nazi imagery and theories and conspiracies. Allows him plausible denial while at the same time allowing him to take advantage of it. Kind of like when Billy Joel was claiming to have composed something that turned out to be identical to some Mozart piece. " I don't know anything about Mozart, and I have never heard that piece, but how about that, aren't I good?"
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 March 2016 18:32 (eight years ago) link
isn't that standard operating procedure for Trump (cf David Duke etc.)?
― Οὖτις, Friday, 25 March 2016 18:34 (eight years ago) link
Pretty much. What I'm saying is that maybe he really has no idea! Maybe all authoritarian neo fascists eventually find their way to the same (er) solutions.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 25 March 2016 18:40 (eight years ago) link
i was surprised to learn this:
"Consider this question: how does the relationship between Israel and the Australian, Canadian, or British Jewish community differ from that of Israel and the American Jewish community? If one seeks an answer that can be quantified, note that, even taking into account the effect of the Birthright program—which to date has sent 400,000 young American Jews on trips to Israel—it is still the case that only about 40 percent of American Jews have bothered to visit the country at all. Without Birthright, that proportion would shrink to a third. By contrast, approximately 70 percent of Canadian Jews have made the trip at least once, as have 80 percent of Australian Jews and an estimated 95 percent of British Jews. Beyond the Anglosphere, 70 percent of French Jews have visited Israel, as have 70 percent of Mexican Jews and more than half of Argentinian Jews."
― Mordy, Monday, 4 April 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
could this be perhaps partly due to americans just not being big foreign travelers in general? i.e. the average American has only been to three countries outside the u.s. and almost a third have never left the states?
― trickle-down ergonomics (jim in glasgow), Monday, 4 April 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
maybe there's something to that - it's very surprising to see mexico + canada at 70% and the US at 30% less.
― Mordy, Monday, 4 April 2016 18:02 (seven years ago) link
big lolz @ http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/kasich-meets-talmudic-scholars-explains-bible.html
― Mordy, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 22:12 (seven years ago) link
i liked this lil riff on it
https://twitter.com/dwdavison9318/status/720271473198428160
― goole, Thursday, 14 April 2016 18:00 (seven years ago) link
oh hey that reminds me - anyone got a decent recipe for matzo ball soup? I've tried a couple but each time the matzo balls turned out way heavier/harder than they should be. (My familial elders is no help in this regard, as they are all terrible at cooking)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 14 April 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
ygm i sent u a recipe
― Mordy, Thursday, 14 April 2016 18:27 (seven years ago) link
Seltzer is an essential ingredient if you want to avoid golf balls.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 14 April 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link
aha!
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 14 April 2016 18:42 (seven years ago) link
this probably belongs on a few different threads but why not here?:
http://patijinich.com/recipe/post_1/
good stuff IMO
― wizzz! (amateurist), Friday, 15 April 2016 05:56 (seven years ago) link
This is probably a question best for Mordy, but has anyone written a good theological defense/explanation etc. of strict observance of all of the mitzvoth without belief in God? And conversely, what are the best defenses of Reform-type Judaism from a theological perspective (i.e. not merely justifying it using secular terms).
― JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Thursday, 21 April 2016 20:01 (seven years ago) link
What you probably want is an argument from historical revelation (that as our understanding of morality develops so should our practice). This is a better answer for justifying Reform-type Judaism (which makes most sense in a sociohistorical context imo) but not for strict observance without belief in G-d. Essentially though if you accept this historical based revelation than you can believe in the Torah even while believing that it was a changing document. Can also be a nice way to square parts of the Torah you don't like with the divinity of the Torah as a whole -- that our current level of revelation demonstrates that we can't understand, say, Leviticus, the same way it was understood in 1000BC. That it wouldn't even be an appropriate way of practicing the Torah. You can also fold in development of the oral Torah into this. Every since taking Brill's Revelation course at YU (looks like the syllabus is here: http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/713482/rabbi-alan-brill/revelation-materials-unit-i-five-models-of-dulles-and-some-21st-century-questions-/) I can't help but think of these models in terms of their use - what questions they're coming to answer, or problems they're coming to address. That's why I think ultimately Reform is best understood as a response to acculturation into German Protestant culture and less as a stable theological theory. nb that Heschel's Torah from Heaven revelation model answers a lot of these same questions but keeps more of the divine revelation at Mount Sinai (which historical revelation only just barely preserves).
Re the other question I don't have a good answer (tho possibly you could make one from cultural preservation, or communal fidelity) but I did hear stories about Yeshiva students who were leaving their schools en masse during the high point of the Haskalah movement and there's a story I've heard that in Slabotke Yeshiva bochurim would smoke on Shabbos while learning gemara bc learning gemara was just too geshmak. This isn't really the same thing but it kinda gets to the same idea that maybe there are reasons to participate in these traditions despite not signing on to much of the theological underpinning it.
― Mordy, Thursday, 21 April 2016 20:26 (seven years ago) link
I'm not Jewish. This is the Jewish-related thread I always see--maybe there's a better one...Flipping through DVDs at the flea market this morning, the guy beside me, in his 60s, holds up the old musical Till the Clouds Roll By.
"Isn't 'till' misspelled there?""No, that's right--you can spell it 'till' or ''til.'""Doesn't that 'till' mean moneybox?""It means both.""Okay...It's Hollywood, it's Jews, and they're well educated."
And then I'm almost positive he said "Thanks, Ben"--maybe it was "Thanks, then," but I don't think so. Not my name, and, well, our evolving friendship hadn't really gotten to the exchanging-names stage yet.
― clemenza, Saturday, 23 April 2016 17:15 (seven years ago) link
Reminds me of a group trip I took as part of a tour group to a Casablanca, Morocco market where one bargains for the price and someone saying to me later--"I hate that Jewing down stuff"
― curmudgeon, Monday, 25 April 2016 21:50 (seven years ago) link
in case anyone was wondering the magic key to fluffy matzah balls is seltzer water and whipped egg whites
― Οὖτις, Monday, 25 April 2016 21:55 (seven years ago) link
Someone wrote a letter to the editor complaining about a picture printed in the newspaper a few days ago of local Hasidic Jews burning chametz. "The bread should have been composted."
― tokyo rosemary, Wednesday, 27 April 2016 14:24 (seven years ago) link
That reminds me a little of the people who clucked at the Hassidic Jews whose home burned down because of a Shabbos hot plate malfunction. Any excuse to vent your discomfort with the other.
― JWoww Gilberto (man alive), Wednesday, 27 April 2016 14:26 (seven years ago) link
some very interesting stuff in here about the intersection between halacha and labor:https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2016/05/24/benjamin-brown-on-halakhic-labor-law-statist-or-democratic/
― Mordy, Wednesday, 25 May 2016 00:49 (seven years ago) link
lipa watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hsG8TYdtg0
― Mordy, Tuesday, 21 June 2016 21:06 (seven years ago) link
it's unbeLIPAble
― tokyo rosemary, Thursday, 23 June 2016 14:41 (seven years ago) link
Hey Jews! I have a new job with my local Jewish Social Services!!! I'm super happy, it is a fantastic org with about a 50/50 mix of Jews/non-Jews both on the staff and client side.
Double bonus: I get both the usual federal holidays AND the Jewish holidays off! 20 paid holidays, holy shit.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:21 (seven years ago) link
Yay quincie! Mazel tov.
― Sean, let me be clear (silby), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:23 (seven years ago) link
Thank you. The folks who interviewed me liked that I talked about tzedakah and tikkun olam in my cover letter, ha!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:44 (seven years ago) link
I hadn't really ever articulated it before my interview, but I found myself noting that my Jewish studies greatly influenced my decision to become a mid-life social worker. They really did.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 21 August 2016 18:46 (seven years ago) link
Tikkun olam is a powerful organizing principle and I want to learn more systematically about it.
― Sean, let me be clear (silby), Sunday, 21 August 2016 19:19 (seven years ago) link
the way tikkun olam is used by renewal (and how it has entered popular humanist judaism imagination) is somewhat distinct from its original context (in kabbalah). there's an association between the meanings but i think something is lost in the contemporary usage. acc to kabbalistic account of creation G-d first created a perfect world. but the world was too perfect - too rigid in its completeness - that it shattered. that was the world of tohu (the void). the second world G-d created, our world, was the world of tikkun. and in that world sparks from the shattered vessels of tohu were scattered. when you do a mitzvah you elevate those sparks birur nitzitzut (essentially doing a mitzvah brings the will of G-d into the physical world and so that's a way of perfecting the world, by bringing G-d's presence, in a way that doesn't shatter reality). so that's the original tikkun, but you can see how it transmuted to become a softer concept of just doing good things to make the world better - minus the esoterica.
wiki says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tohu_and_Tikun
The implications of Tohu-Tikun underlie the origin of free will and the realm of Kelipah (evil), caused by Shevirat HaKelim/Shevirah (Hebrew: שבירת הכלים "Shattering of the Vessels" of Tohu), the processes of spiritual and physical exile and redemption, the meaning of the 613 mitzvot (Jewish observances), and the messianic rectification of existence. Through this Tikun/Tikkun (תיקון) also has an active meaning, the esoteric Birur/Beirur/Birurim (Hebrew: בירור "Sifting/Clarification") of concealed Nitzotz/Nitzutzei Kodesh/Nitzutzot (Hebrew: ניצוצות "Sparks" of Holiness) exiled in physical creation. This new paradigm in Kabbalah replaced the previous linear description of descent with a dynamic process of spiritual enclothement, where higher "souls" invest inwardly in lower "vessels". Related to the primordial cosmic realms of Tohu-Tikun are two associated spiritual states for interpreting existence, psychological temperaments, or stages in the spiritual development of the individual.The cosmic drama of Tikun in Lurianic Kabbalah inspired the 16th-18th century popular Jewish imagination, explaining contemporary oppression and supporting messiah claimants but the most important Tikun is to have peace and order in Creation. The revivalist Hasidic movement, from the 18th century onwards, internalised esoteric Lurianism through its own concern with experiencing Divine Omnipresence amidst daily material life. The terminology of the modern Jewish ideal of Tikkun Olam ("Fixing the World"), popularised by Reform Judaism, is taken from the Lurianic concept, but applied more widely to ethical activism in contemporary society.
The cosmic drama of Tikun in Lurianic Kabbalah inspired the 16th-18th century popular Jewish imagination, explaining contemporary oppression and supporting messiah claimants but the most important Tikun is to have peace and order in Creation. The revivalist Hasidic movement, from the 18th century onwards, internalised esoteric Lurianism through its own concern with experiencing Divine Omnipresence amidst daily material life. The terminology of the modern Jewish ideal of Tikkun Olam ("Fixing the World"), popularised by Reform Judaism, is taken from the Lurianic concept, but applied more widely to ethical activism in contemporary society.
― Mordy, Sunday, 21 August 2016 20:09 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I remember reading some version of the kabbalistic account at some point in my rather mystical teenage years and finding it rather inspiring
― Sean, let me be clear (silby), Sunday, 21 August 2016 20:12 (seven years ago) link
I rather hope that there's a progressive case to be made that Jews engage in tikkun olam not (only) because it's our word for the ethical dictates of secular social justice efforts but because it is a mitzvah (in the fullest possible theological sense available to atheist Reconstructionists such as me)
― Sean, let me be clear (silby), Sunday, 21 August 2016 20:15 (seven years ago) link
for future reference
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrEpDQUXEAAAe1B.jpg
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 18:49 (seven years ago) link
kinda wanna poll
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 31 August 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
http://www.theestablishment.co/2016/09/12/author-miriam-libicki-thinks-jewish-identity-is-complicated/http://jewishartsalon.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/miriam-libicki-towards-a-hot-jew02jpg.jpg
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 02:39 (seven years ago) link
Great link forks thanks
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 02:58 (seven years ago) link
Hey Jews! What's everyone doing for the holidays?
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:28 (seven years ago) link
goin to family services for yom kippur
temple had a challah-making thing we went to last weekend
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:32 (seven years ago) link
I have never attempted challah. I'm not much of a baker, and good challah is pretty easy to find. How was yours?
I am working the Jewish holidays because I need the comp time for a vacation later in the year. Also: not actually Jewish.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:34 (seven years ago) link
Yesterday I hung out with two rabbis on separate occasions and they were both really cool and I want to hang out with them again.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:35 (seven years ago) link
Also yesterday at a meeting my colleague leaned over and asked if it were really possible that Trump contained shards of light from the shattered vessel. She thought not.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:37 (seven years ago) link
my wife (who is Hungarian and not Jewish) is nonetheless a master (mistress?) baker so she's p much got it down. but given that this was a family event (ie involving little kids) the recipe everyone was following was different/simpler and was "not how she would have done it" lol. still tasted great/came out fine.
I'm gonna be working cuz um I'm not that observant really
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:38 (seven years ago) link
I made rounds with a rabbi to visit (hospice) patients this week; he brought along two shofars (um I suspect that is not how to make a plural of shofar?) to play. They were both pretty small and sounded. . . not so nice as big shofars I have heard.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
lol why haven't you converted yet already
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 22:40 (seven years ago) link
A reasonable question, for sure! Ger toshav is a place that has seemed right for me. Maybe this will change, maybe not. MOving to a day-to-day Jewish environment (employment-wise) is a shift, for sure.
No idea how it will shake out. A huge--HUGE--factor is the issue of (potentially) being the only Jew in an extended family. . . what does that even mean? My family is very Jew-positive, but that is different from being all-in, y'know? So, fellow traveler. All of the values, all of the guilt, all of the pork.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 29 September 2016 02:13 (seven years ago) link
i did a local BK thing with Holocaust survivors; mostly just prepping food and then talking and dancing with them. Really intense, especially given my grandmother's recent passing. I will likely try it again; they meet more or less biweekly.
― thrusted pelvis-first back (ulysses), Thursday, 29 September 2016 07:34 (seven years ago) link
Hey Jews,
G'mar hatima tova
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Tuesday, 11 October 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
i heard a really nice lecture tnite about keeping two days of chag that looked at responsa + halachic literature from orthodox, conservative and reform. v interesting material but i thought these two excerpts from the end were particularly lovely + wanted to share them. the first (continued from the previous page) is from R' Norman Lamm:
http://i.imgur.com/RuoMgWT.jpg
― Mordy, Sunday, 23 October 2016 04:02 (seven years ago) link
http://forward.com/opinion/357517/dramatic-orthodox-growth-is-transforming-the-american-jewish-community/?attribution=author-article-listing-1-headline
https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.forward.com/images/675x/cohen-graph-1-1482172765.jpg
― Mordy, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
Anecdotal, but it's interesting to me that a number of orthodox families send their kids to my daughter's conservative preschool. That never would have happened at the conservative preschool I went to. Anecdotal, but I wonder if it's a symptom of demand in the neighborhood outstripping orthodox school availability.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Tuesday, 20 December 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
is this a study showing me religiously conservative people have more kids?
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:42 (seven years ago) link
the reason why the share of orthodox jews is growing is indeed bc religiously conservative people have more kids however that fact alone tells u nothing since religiously conservative people had more kids in 1920 and 1950 too. the important takeaway is that the having more kids is starting to become a major demographic trend that will likely shift/complicate the meaning of being jewish in america in the future.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:44 (seven years ago) link
minor snark aside...
my friends were unaware of that ridiculous mensch on a bench toy, which I find inexplicably hilarious, and I am totally buying them one
― mh 😏, Tuesday, 20 December 2016 21:56 (seven years ago) link
Everyone have enough candles? I forgot that you're not supposed to put let them burn out every night, thus going through more than 9.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 15:03 (seven years ago) link
got one of the last 3 oil packs in town it seems like. everyone was sold out - called the judaica store on thursday and she was like "i just got a shipment in" - i ran over and by the time i got there they were almost all out of the brand new shipment!
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 December 2016 15:04 (seven years ago) link
You're not supposed to put them out, is what I meant to say.
For the second or third Christmas in a row I will be chilling at a data center while husband works in the cage. The data center is out in the exurbs of NoVa, the only redeeming feature of which is a truly excellent Taiwanese restaurant, so I will be doing the Jews-going-out-for-Chinese on Christmas thing.
Post your Hannukah plans here thusly, pls.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 15:06 (seven years ago) link
luckily not spending christmas at the data center we're working in - the contractor we're subbing for shuts down for all the holidays and won't let us work w/out them on site. will instead be watching the nfl games today and hoping i win my fantasy football superbowl. maybe i'll order chinese takeout tonight?
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 December 2016 15:17 (seven years ago) link
You'd think Jews would not be that novel in a big city in 2016, but it's been amusing today, listening to the kids of our awesome and generous neighbors as they stop by to deliver homemade treats, struggling with what to wish us. They're so wary, so compelled to wish us "Merry Christmas" but so careful (and considerate!) to avoid the phrase, like it would be the worst social blunder. A brother and sister just came by to deliver us a homemade dreidel pendant, which was so thoughtful. The brother made sure to say Happy Hanukkah, and then the older sister wished me a Merry Christmas, making the younger brother freak out. "No, you're not supposed to say that!!!" But jeez, if us Jews took it all that seriously we'd all be jumping off red and green lit bridges this time of year.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 24 December 2016 20:32 (seven years ago) link
^^^this. I work at a large Jewish social services agency where the staff is about 50/50 Jewish/non-Jewish; without some context (pictures of a Torah scroll at a colleague's desk, for example), it's not always easy to hazard a guess as to who is what. There was a surprising amount of bet-hedging "Happy Holidays!" going around this week, which only really works when Christmas and Hanukkah actually coincide.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 20:53 (seven years ago) link
Which is, like, once every 45 years or something.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 24 December 2016 21:35 (seven years ago) link
I happily accept all merry xmas wishes and have never met any jews who seriously feel otherwise
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:11 (seven years ago) link
i would never be so churlish as to be literally offended when somebody tells me "merry christmas" but all the same i feel it as a small good thing when someone says "happy holidays," not a big deal, just a microgenerosity like holding a door open
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:37 (seven years ago) link
i say "merry christmas" to people who i know to be christian and "happy hanukkah" to known jews and "happy holidays" or "have a good holiday" or "happy new year" to strangers
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:38 (seven years ago) link
I want a new non-denominational thing to say to people. Happy Holidays is such weak sauce
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:43 (seven years ago) link
"Congratulations!"
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:47 (seven years ago) link
"You're Welcome!"
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Saturday, 24 December 2016 22:49 (seven years ago) link
"Mary Poppins!"
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:07 (seven years ago) link
Tomboto how much Jewish stuff is going down in casa de Tomboto these days
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:32 (seven years ago) link
Like maybe you should come over next week for latkes and hot sauce, which is how we roll here
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
I dunno if I mentioned this already but I am back in Jew School. I love the rabbi, he is a really engaging teacher! Anyway I'm pretty sure that at some point itt Mordy or others recommended I give the shulchan aruch a go. I mentioned this to my Jew School rabbi his eyebrows knitted in a concerned manner and he said, haltingly, "I... don't actually suggest you embark on that. It's only laws!"
Anyway Jewish ethics is a main area of interest for me so I dunno what I should read.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:54 (seven years ago) link
i'm like 99% sure i never recommended you read the shulchan aruch! unless you were looking for a book of codified laws
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:57 (seven years ago) link
like generally shulchan aruch is what students becoming rabbis study to become proficient in laws related to kashrut and family purity - ie very technical material mostly. when you got to an orthodox rabbi with your discolored chicken (or... underwear?) and expect an expert opinion, rabbi is likely using shulchan aruch as source for their ruling. even if you did want to just learn laws there are better works for laypeople including the kitzur shulchan aruch which is an abridged shulchan aruch and probably more relevant the chofetz chaim's work the mishna berura.
― Mordy, Saturday, 24 December 2016 23:59 (seven years ago) link
Yeah I went back and searched the thread and I have no idea where I got the shulchan aruch idea from!
I just gave myself a small coronary at the thought of going to this (or any other) rabbi with my underwear.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 25 December 2016 00:04 (seven years ago) link
I wonder if the shulchan aruch addresses family purity for women like me who have evicted their uteruses (uteri?) from the premises.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 25 December 2016 00:35 (seven years ago) link
not to be crude but afaik if you're menstruating it needs to be practiced and if you're not it's not (acc to the shulchan aruch making no normative judgements about what ritual practices people should or shouldn't incorporate into their personal lives)
― Mordy, Sunday, 25 December 2016 00:40 (seven years ago) link
Nah nothing crude about it, but women who have have hysterectomies but kept ovaries and are pre-menopausal obv still have "periods" i.e. menstrual cycles, but no "period" in the "show undies to rabbi" sense. Saves trips to the mikveh I guess?
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 25 December 2016 01:00 (seven years ago) link
afaik yes - it's all about the blood [or lack therefore]
― Mordy, Sunday, 25 December 2016 01:13 (seven years ago) link
I've taken to telling people Hail Yule
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 25 December 2016 16:11 (seven years ago) link
Anyway happy Chanukah!
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 25 December 2016 16:12 (seven years ago) link
was listening to a podcast and someone told the story of Hershel and the Goblins. it was very cool!
Happy Hanukkah!
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 26 December 2016 02:49 (seven years ago) link
this looks very cool:https://shabb.es/product/ethics/
if you've never read pirkei avos before i highly recommend it (i've quoted it a number of times on ilx, it's where the quote "were it not for the fear government, man would swallow his fellow alive" comes from) and tho i haven't read this version it looks great.
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:01 (seven years ago) link
more famously it's where "if i am not for myself, who will be for me?" comes from, as well as "who is wise? he who learns from everyone."
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:02 (seven years ago) link
huh yeah that does look good
― Οὖτις, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:05 (seven years ago) link
does look cool. Mordy do you know the ppl behind it?
― softie (silby), Friday, 10 February 2017 21:27 (seven years ago) link
i do not - i only know that friends on fb were sharing it. i've ordered a copy.
― Mordy, Friday, 10 February 2017 21:29 (seven years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4ty8T7XAAMBSy-.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4tyaxiWcAEYsUN.jpg
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:10 (seven years ago) link
a nice little lol there is that the highest rating is 91 - approval that Jews have for Jews. we love ourselves.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:12 (seven years ago) link
another fun graph that suggests that the older you get the more you like jews
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4vf-BWWMAEs5wE.jpg
― Mordy, Wednesday, 15 February 2017 23:26 (seven years ago) link
https://qz.com/915527/in-photos-bene-israelis-the-ancient-jewish-community-of-india/
― Mordy, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:34 (seven years ago) link
whoah nice
― Οὖτις, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:38 (seven years ago) link
yeah cool stuff - i'd love to see the exhibit but i do not plan to be in the new dehli area any time soon
― Mordy, Friday, 24 February 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link
delhi*
would love to see some of my jews (looking at you mordy) out at this downtown NYC show that I'm working with:http://www.greenwichhouse.org/announcements/uncharted-innov
In addition to being the name of this trance-inducing musical style, the term gnawa also refers to the people originally from kingdoms spanning Mali to Ghana who were enslaved by the Moorish rulers and brought North to present-day Morocco. The Jewish presence in Morocco dates back to over 2,500 years ago and upon interaction with the gnawa community, a bond formed over appreciation for gnawa music and its healing powers. Gnawa music pre-dates Islam and originally centered around animistic, spiritual, mystical concepts sung in sub-Saharan languages such as Bambara, Fulani and Sudani. Upon embracing Islam, gnawa songs began to incorporate Arabic language and themes around the Muslim prophets. Sebitiyin, meaning The Saturdays in Moroccan Arabic, is the collection of songs that grew out of the gatherings hosted by the Jewish community for the revered gnawa maalems whom they deeply respected. Themes of these songs still include the original elements of spirits and the natural world, and later came to incorporate shared saints from their Abrahamic traditions. Today, it is still rare to find a maalem that knows this full repertoire so we are especially lucky to have Maalem (Master) Hassan Ben Jaafer, son of the late Abdallah Ben Jaafer, lead us through a powerful moment of unity in music.
― removed from the rain drops and drop tops of experience (ulysses), Friday, 24 February 2017 20:21 (seven years ago) link
wow that sounds fantastic - and on 4/20 no less. it'll be an ask for sure (late night show in the city) but maybe we can make a long weekend of it or something. i'll def see what i can swing.
― Mordy, Friday, 24 February 2017 20:40 (seven years ago) link
please do, it should be rad. fifteen buck ticket! affordable! free beer and wine at the show!
― removed from the rain drops and drop tops of experience (ulysses), Friday, 24 February 2017 22:30 (seven years ago) link
the price is def not the problem. the two hour drive is the bigger obstacle. but we'll see. might be nice to get out of philly for a weekend. are hamilton tickets still impossible to get?
― Mordy, Friday, 24 February 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
i'm gonna guess yes. and in any case, the price is def the problem there.
― removed from the rain drops and drop tops of experience (ulysses), Friday, 24 February 2017 22:44 (seven years ago) link
That show sounds fkin coolSigned a goy
― his eye is on despair-o (Jon not Jon), Friday, 24 February 2017 23:08 (seven years ago) link
Goys welcome
― i believe that (s)he is sincere (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 25 February 2017 05:36 (seven years ago) link
this speech was given by one of my yeshiva rabbis last week. it's v much addressed to the orthodox community and some of the challenges facing it (particularly what is known as the "off the derech" or "off the road" aka "leaving Judaism" crisis and a related drug addiction and overdose crisis). because of that i'm not sure if the language will be a huge barrier to ilx posters (and some of the ways of speaking are not at the level of sophistication, particularly about non-orthodox communities, or sophistication of secular humanism, that ilxors might expect) but i thought it was beautiful and i cried multiple times watching it. the ideas being floated in it are not something that are super prevalent within the orthodox community yet but that's why i went to learn w/ him many years ago - bc i thought he was onto something new about the value and meaning of judaism to people's actual lived lives and relationships. at one pt during the speech there's a gasp bc some of the things he's saying are shocking to hegemonic orthodoxy and someone asks if they can record the lecture. from an anthro-social value alone i think it's worth checking out even if u get nothing else out of it: https://www.theyeshiva.net/item/4151
― Mordy, Wednesday, 3 May 2017 04:08 (six years ago) link
ive been reading Moses Maimonides "The Guide for the Perplexed" and 45 pages in i am quite enjoying it. how prevalent is the idea that God is incorporeal? it is a point he keeps returning to, indeed it is a major theme of the work, which so far has been tasked with introducing the concept of homonyms and words having multiple, contextual, meanings that tend to be reduced to a literalization.
lol and he keeps making fun of people who think the world is flat. this is in the 12th century!
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 00:32 (six years ago) link
God being incorporeal is broadly accepted in Judaism I can't think of any serious denomination that contradicts that tenet. Maimonides (aka the Rambam) is probably the most canonical figure in the Jewish world (particularly the Orthodox world) and penned the 13 principles of faith that essentially delineate the borders of traditional Judaism. Guide to the Perplexed is fantastic. You'd probably dig this as well - a letter he wrote about Jewish belief in the resurrection of the dead: http://rambam.merkaz.com/Class%2013%20-%20Letter%20on%20Resurrection.pdf
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 00:35 (six years ago) link
he was also a physician (and some say advisor) to Sultan Saladin. he lived in Cairo and signed all his letters as (paraphrasing), "The one who is sinning by living in Egypt."
― Mordy, Wednesday, 17 May 2017 00:39 (six years ago) link
yeah i am loving this book! he is really a brilliant thinker, he seems quite hip to the current scientific theories for so long ago. i really like how he talks about the anthropomorphize-ing that usually takes place wrt God. the idea being that we say "God sees" but it is not the same as saying a person sees. he goes on about the different bodily organs involved in perception and the senses, how this is related to sin, how this must be regulated for the goal of worldly moral perfection. he doesn't go deeply into addiction but at one point he notes often people have a peculiar appetite for a particular sense. on the contrary God needs no bodily organs because creation requires nothing that is outside of him. he is incorporeal where we need an ear to hear and an eye to see. his "sight" is a completely different thing than, humans or animals, who are both material and organ-based.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 02:05 (six years ago) link
https://www.wdl.org/en/item/3962/#q=maimonides
incredibly ornate illuminated manuscript version of his "Mishneh Torah". really neat psychedelic doodles all over the place. that site is so cool. they have also an original of the "Guide for the Perlexed".
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 17 May 2017 15:08 (six years ago) link
https://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/features/it-s-an-all-jewish-town-but-no-it-s-not-in-israel-1.25044
my brother went to yeshiva with a kid from azerbaijan
― Mordy, Friday, 2 June 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
https://kavvanah.wordpress.com/2017/06/04/interview-with-yuval-harari-jewish-magic-before-the-rise-of-kabbalah/
- maybe of interest to some here (adam b?)
― Mordy, Monday, 5 June 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
that is very cool! i had heard of the Sword of Moses. so neat to see a new translation!
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 5 June 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
6) Why are you personally interested in magic?Some ten years ago, when I was sitting in an Oxford coffeehouse and pondering about the book I was about to complete, the following sentence came to my mind: magic is a rather boring matter. I knew immediately that these were going to be its opening words. And indeed, in itself, “magic is a rather boring matter: practical action, supernatural technology. In its simple version, a few words are uttered, some of them meaningless. In more developed versions, some acts are performed and then the words are uttered.”I’ve studied philosophy, Jewish thought, Early Christianity, Gnosticism, Kabbalah and comparative religion. I encountered profound thinking, ideological systems, myths, ethics and sophisticated means of expression. Magic technology is very far from that. It was like turning to the study of Ritual Engineering. Nevertheless, as I also wrote there, something in it captures the imagination. But there is much more than that.First, there are people behind the praxis. Magic recipe literature is a broad map of human fears and anxieties, distresses and needs, aspirations and desires. It is a practical literature that, focusing on daily needs of the individual, slips beneath the radar of social supervision and reflects life itself in a fascinating way.Second, magic is highly democratic. It focuses of the individual and, indifferent to religion, race or gender, takes personal needs of all kinds very seriously. It supports the individual at times of crises and assists him or her in fulfilling personal wishes. Bronislaw Malinowski viewed magic as ritualization of human optimism and I totally agree with him. Belief in magic is an expression of human optimistic decision to act rather than to despair and give up.Unfortunately, power always involves potential aggression and the promise of magical power also has a destructive facet. Books of magic recipes reflect that facet with instructions of how to harm and abuse the other. Painful as it is, here too magic literature mirrors life itself.Finally, because of the vague borderline between magic and the power of “true religion,” magic discourse is political by its very nature. It concerns knowledge and power, ideology and hegemony, exclusion and reproduction of social structures. That is true concerning all times – past and present.
Some ten years ago, when I was sitting in an Oxford coffeehouse and pondering about the book I was about to complete, the following sentence came to my mind: magic is a rather boring matter. I knew immediately that these were going to be its opening words. And indeed, in itself, “magic is a rather boring matter: practical action, supernatural technology. In its simple version, a few words are uttered, some of them meaningless. In more developed versions, some acts are performed and then the words are uttered.”
I’ve studied philosophy, Jewish thought, Early Christianity, Gnosticism, Kabbalah and comparative religion. I encountered profound thinking, ideological systems, myths, ethics and sophisticated means of expression. Magic technology is very far from that. It was like turning to the study of Ritual Engineering. Nevertheless, as I also wrote there, something in it captures the imagination. But there is much more than that.
First, there are people behind the praxis. Magic recipe literature is a broad map of human fears and anxieties, distresses and needs, aspirations and desires. It is a practical literature that, focusing on daily needs of the individual, slips beneath the radar of social supervision and reflects life itself in a fascinating way.
Second, magic is highly democratic. It focuses of the individual and, indifferent to religion, race or gender, takes personal needs of all kinds very seriously. It supports the individual at times of crises and assists him or her in fulfilling personal wishes. Bronislaw Malinowski viewed magic as ritualization of human optimism and I totally agree with him. Belief in magic is an expression of human optimistic decision to act rather than to despair and give up.
Unfortunately, power always involves potential aggression and the promise of magical power also has a destructive facet. Books of magic recipes reflect that facet with instructions of how to harm and abuse the other. Painful as it is, here too magic literature mirrors life itself.
Finally, because of the vague borderline between magic and the power of “true religion,” magic discourse is political by its very nature. It concerns knowledge and power, ideology and hegemony, exclusion and reproduction of social structures. That is true concerning all times – past and present.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 5 June 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
this has always bugged me a little. what is he talking about wrt "magic technology"? he says he has studied all of these fields of knowledge that are all about rituals and magic and the secret sophisticated meaning of these perhaps superficially silly myths and yet says magic is "very far" from sophistication. i wonder if it has to do with the writer. he also admits to being an atheist and sort of condescending towards the mystical aspects of those spiritual fields. it is my understanding that "magic technology" in its time was a sort of practical folk craft/conceptual art form/role-playing game that was canonically (through the mystical/esoteric post-Xtian Talmudic commentary) integrated into the theological and philosophical sophistication he praises in the Abrahamic religions.
mostly i don't understand why he can say he has studied the Kabbalah and found it "profound... and sophisticated" and then say that magic, the speaking of magical worlds, is not. it seems like he is holding two conflicting opinions at once. i thought the Kabbalah was all about magical words, didn't he just do a translation of The Sword of Moses? maybe he is talking strictly pagan (folk practices w no references to Abrahamic whatsoever) but he does not specify as such.
i am reading Maimonides right now and he is talking about prophets, how prophecy is closely tied to imagination, that the imagination is an important force that can be hampered during times of depression or emotional turmoil (or helped, as some claim). he talks about there being different levels of prophets, from the miracles-producing saint to the streetside fortune teller, and how Moses is sort of the pinacle of the human prophet, above all others, simply due to his superior nearness to God. my understanding is that classical magic is a holy thing, that everyone from the post-Xtian mystics to medieval cosplay theorists to Golden Dawn hipsters treated it as such, with respect to prior ideological/theological systems, myths, ethics, and sophistication.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 9 June 2017 16:51 (six years ago) link
magic technology = things like amulets, spells, etc. things meant to accomplish real world tasks (heal illness, help fertility, vex an enemy, etc). by contrast kabbalah and other ideological systems generally do not have any practical element.
― Mordy, Friday, 9 June 2017 16:58 (six years ago) link
well, there's the golem
― Οὖτις, Friday, 9 June 2017 17:02 (six years ago) link
supposedly created with sefer yetzirah but it's unclear to me to what extent they were extrapolating from mystical concepts to practical magic and to what extent it actually has guidelines for creating a golem. my impression is it's more the former.
― Mordy, Friday, 9 June 2017 17:05 (six years ago) link
by contrast kabbalah and other ideological systems generally do not have any practical element.
this would make sense as the act of Creation occurred through speech alone and required no external elements technology or tools. lol its hard to keep your head wrapped around where the line is wrt what is to be taken literally vs as a framework for theoretical/spiritual/philosophical inquiry. a debate as old as time i suppose. probably best to assume the latter as a baseline though all of these traditions incorporate elements and themes from others so yes it can get messy. if so he's talking more about the daily "get lucky in love and money" potions than the mystical concepts then sure. i think the line can get pretty blurry tho.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 9 June 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
yeah well that's what the babylonian bowls were - getting healthy, luck, fertility, removing curses, etc
― Mordy, Friday, 9 June 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
I'm still upset about how bad the shofar blasting was at the kids' service.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 23 September 2017 20:50 (six years ago) link
Shana Tova to the Jews if ilx!
Trying to figure out what distinguishes good vs. bad shofaring.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Saturday, 23 September 2017 20:59 (six years ago) link
Lol wtf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS-3CQjm_wM
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 23 September 2017 21:10 (six years ago) link
J4J?
― Mordy, Saturday, 23 September 2017 21:27 (six years ago) link
Looks like it :/
― Mordy, Saturday, 23 September 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
Has to be. Guy seems like complete ass hat
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 23 September 2017 21:32 (six years ago) link
That's all definitely bad shofarery
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 23 September 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
dear strangers on the street: stop asking me if i'm jewish plz
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
When I was a kid, the shofarist was a jazz trumpet player who would circular breathe for the last blast
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 25 September 2017 14:53 (six years ago) link
lots of interesting numbers in here:http://www.pewforum.org/essay/american-and-israeli-jews-twin-portraits-from-pew-research-center-surveys/
― Mordy, Saturday, 30 December 2017 16:34 (six years ago) link
Yes. Israel as red state and US as blue does sorta explain Netenyahu , although it seems a bit simplistic.
In unrelated US news, I feel like ugly Chanukah sweaters, jammies, etc. seem to have taken off as a big deal this year. Saw a pic of a DC rabbi wearing a “challah” sweater, and several college age relatives in Chanukah fashions
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 30 December 2017 21:01 (six years ago) link
One of my favorite things our Rabbi does at services every year is to remind us that "this is your time," and encourage us to let our minds wander, to read and follow along if we want to but not to feel terrible if we take some of these few hours to think about stuff, any stuff, related to the holiday or not. I really like that, it's a nice sentiment. My kids are both well into the age where they're stuck with us, not in any junior congregation, but I'm going to make sure to remind them what a gift it is to spend time in such a solid community, with so many friends, free from distraction.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 01:44 (five years ago) link
gmar chasimah tovah!
― Mordy, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 01:46 (five years ago) link
Hey jews!
I took my daughter to the adult erev rosh hashanah services this year (rather than the shorter family service). The rabbi gave a sermon about recognizing when it was appropriate to embrace anger ... we are a v lefty political congregation :)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 01:50 (five years ago) link
Hey Jews!
― faculty w1fe (silby), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 01:58 (five years ago) link
Hi. They’re asleep. What?
― Paleo Weltschmerz (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 04:37 (five years ago) link
_ One of my favorite things our Rabbi does at services every year is to remind us that "this is your time," and encourage us to let our minds wander, to read and follow along if we want to but not to feel terrible if we take some of these few hours to think about stuff, any stuff, related to the holiday or not_This is great !
― calstars, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 23:18 (five years ago) link
https://www.jweekly.com/2000/05/12/interrupters-linguist-says-it-s-jewish-way/
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 17:56 (five years ago) link
ok lol
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 18:33 (five years ago) link
my wife is always getting on me for interrupting and I'm like what
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 18:34 (five years ago) link
Clash of interrupting vs waiting cultures is a pretty useful paradigm to be conscientious of
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:08 (five years ago) link
so here's a fun thing my fellow ILX Jews will appreciate - at the company xmas dinner/party this year somehow I ended up having to "explain" Judaism to the table I was seated at, ppl were asking me about what you do for Hannukah, what does it commemorate, oh it's not such a big holiday? well what are the major holidays? Yom Kippur? What's that? Passover? how does that work? what do you mean the Last Supper was a seder, I thought that was a Christian thing? Wait, Jesus was a JEW?
*sigh*
my wife got very visibly irritated and was like "let me google this for you"
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:13 (five years ago) link
…adults?
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:16 (five years ago) link
Though that puts me in mind of Twain, “properly speaking the Jew ought never to have been heard of” or whatever
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
yes. in their 60s.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:18 (five years ago) link
If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one per cent. of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star-dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of.
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
can't entirely disagree with his stats there, but surely our longevity counts for something
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:20 (five years ago) link
That’s where he ends up
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
He has made a marvellous fight in this world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished.The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?
The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link
brisket iirc
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:25 (five years ago) link
Just made some Sunday actually, had been too long. Still no idea if I’m taking it out at the right moment tbh
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 18 December 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
Any thoughts about the Women’s March and the 2 National Board members that are Farrakhan supporters?
Not a fan of The Tablet website, but I see an article from there circulating.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 14:13 (five years ago) link
I have lots of thoughts but I'm wondering what in particular you're wondering about? There are a lot of uncomfortable fault lines here but the quick takeaway for me is that it seems legit, confirmed and gross.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 14:47 (five years ago) link
My thought is I (liberal Jewish Zionist) care about as much about it as about the politics of ANSWER, which organized a lot of protests against the Iraq War. Women's March took place in tons of cities, including my own; the one here was an organic expression of solidarity that was fundamentally local and had nothing to do with Farrakhan, Israel, or Jews.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 19 December 2018 14:54 (five years ago) link
well I don't consider myself a Zionist but otm to the rest of it
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:46 (five years ago) link
While I would like those particular National Board members to be removed, thankfully their personal views have not overly influenced the tenor of the Women’s Marches. I was not and am not a fan of Answer as well.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 December 2018 16:50 (five years ago) link
It was either here or the anti-semitism thread, but this thread seems better. Remarkable story about an invisible hero:
https://www.omaha.com/columnists/hansen/hansen-an-omahan-saved-countless-jews-during-the-holocaust-then/article_357296fc-cd60-563a-a221-8c18456c5c9a.html
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
one thing i'll say about Jumaane Williams, who just won the public advocate special election, is that nobody consistently shouts out obscure Jewish holidays like he does https://t.co/UHaM8IYObj— Sam Raskin (@samraskinz) February 27, 2019
― Mordy, Wednesday, 27 February 2019 22:06 (five years ago) link
If you represent Midwood and East Flatbush, you better know the Hebrew calendar like the back of your hand lol
― we're far from the challops now (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 22:15 (five years ago) link
tru
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:23 (five years ago) link
(tru is on april 14 btw, stock up on eggnog now)
tru bishvat
― voodoo chili, Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:25 (five years ago) link
What are the best nuanced portrayals of reform or conservative judaism in film and literature? I feel like the standard schtick is either "look at this overly lavish bar mitzvah" or some other kind of cynical and simplistic take. A Serious Man might be an exception even though it is arguably a negative portrayal.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 17:58 (five years ago) link
transparent does a pretty good job of incorporating a realistic view of reform/conservative judaism into its larger story.
― Neus Anneus (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:03 (five years ago) link
related: can anyone confirm/deny the quality of Shtisel? some of the ol' ladies from queens in my ceramics studio seem to like it a lot.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/arts/television/shtisel-netflix-orthodox-judaism-hasidim.html
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:05 (five years ago) link
my wife loved it
― Mordy, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:18 (five years ago) link
― Neus Anneus (voodoo chili), Tuesday, March 26, 2019 1:03 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah actually that's a fair point. Rabbi Raquel is probably the most likeable character on the show.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:19 (five years ago) link
I guess as someone who actually found conservative judaism meaningful when I was younger, I never see anyone in fiction find it meaningful. I also never really see the sort of serious, reserved, inward quality of it captured. I guess reform is more commonly portrayed than conservative though, in part because it's the most common form in hollywood and media circles.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 18:26 (five years ago) link
A Serious Man is like the most Jewish movie ever made.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
People in my community are so over the moon for Shtisel that I've been resisting watching it because I don't want to be a cliche.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 20:25 (five years ago) link
watch shababnikim instead. i actually have links to see the first four eps with subs. it's so good. (and v true to my experiences from yeshiva.)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 20:27 (five years ago) link
if u want i can webmail u them
― Mordy, Tuesday, 26 March 2019 20:28 (five years ago) link
if it's not a hassle, would be curious
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 21:51 (five years ago) link
well the opening of that first episode didn't disappoint mordy!
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 26 March 2019 22:09 (five years ago) link
Chag sameach, yehudim
― don't mock my smock or i'll clean your clock (silby), Saturday, 20 April 2019 05:34 (four years ago) link
so the temple I belong to recently lost our cantor/music director and the rabbi drafted me into the music ensemble (since they now needed a guitar player) for the high holy days and omg what have I gotten myself into
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 16:49 (four years ago) link
Hopefully a face-melting solo during the Kol Nidrei.
― I don't get wet because I am tall and thin and I am afraid of people (Eliza D.), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 16:56 (four years ago) link
Minor keys!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 17:23 (four years ago) link
lol yeah almost everything is in fuckin D minor
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 17:25 (four years ago) link
How many niggunim are in diatonic keys at all
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 17:39 (four years ago) link
I'm way outside my comfort zone and learning a lot. none of the stuff is particularly complicated but since I don't read music I'm having to pick my way through things by ear in a lot of cases. there's a "swinging" version of the barechu in 3/4 time that's kinda cool. and at some point apparently I am going to back someone singing "Wade in the Water" (a song I actually already knew!)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 11 September 2019 17:56 (four years ago) link
Kol Nidrei music is dope, probably the best Jewish music there is.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 21:51 (four years ago) link
otm, my synagogue growing up the cantor was (and remains) a truly wonderful soprano, and hearing her chant it is like the profoundest depths of my religion
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Wednesday, 11 September 2019 23:18 (four years ago) link
Avinu malkeinu was my jam as a kid, haunting
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 12 September 2019 04:10 (four years ago) link
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 12 September 2019 10:59 (four years ago) link
avinu malkeinu is still haunting! especially when it switches up the melody at the end
― normal fucking rockman (voodoo chili), Thursday, 12 September 2019 11:22 (four years ago) link
I’ve head two versions though and I prefer what seems to be the less common one?
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:27 (four years ago) link
hinei yom ha D minor
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:31 (four years ago) link
Some years when I can't actually attend a kol nidrei service I just put on the Richard Tucker record. I can't really listen to it any other time, it does sort of feel too holy to just listen to anytime.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:36 (four years ago) link
Same, I don't like the other one, this is the one for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvX-dCaAVcg
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:41 (four years ago) link
that's the one my shul does
― Mordy, Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:44 (four years ago) link
My dad was our cantor for many years, and a really good one if I may say so, not sure if I've ever mentioned that
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:47 (four years ago) link
Jordan that’s the one I know
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:49 (four years ago) link
Although I remember the last note of the first phrase being the same as the first note (in the first two phrases), I wonder if this is how the cantor sung it when I was a kid?
(also does the melody start on the minor third of the scale? I am a music theory idiot)
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 12 September 2019 14:55 (four years ago) link
We have a few guitarists at our temple, most in simple folk singer mode, but one dude with real chops that is fun to watch. Also, there's the son of the former temple pres who fought cancer and was given barely any time to live, but did, and, confined to a wheelchair and with near-blind with an eye patch, has gotten really good at guitar and sometimes plays at services.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:12 (four years ago) link
my temple starts with one version, switches to the version upthread for the last minute or two. it's pretty cool.
― Mommy...can I go out and VAPE tonight? (voodoo chili), Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:15 (four years ago) link
that's the only avinu malkenu melody I know, not sure what the other one is
tbc I'm playing as part of an ensemble - cellos, clarinet, hand drum, and a chorus - so thankfully there will be no folk singer turns from me.
there was some chatter at the last rehearsal about the composer of a lot of the melodies we do (Carlsberg? something like that) being #metoo'd and whether or not we should do any of his compositions as a result, but I couldn't quite follow the discussion. does this ring a bell with anybody?
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:16 (four years ago) link
here's a melodramatic version of the melody i was thinking of by the most famous jewish singer in the world (or at least the most-famously jewish singer in the world):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YONAP39jVE
― Mommy...can I go out and VAPE tonight? (voodoo chili), Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:19 (four years ago) link
Idk anything about it but it must be this guyhttps://www.jta.org/2018/01/30/united-states/in-the-metoo-era-these-synagogues-are-banning-shlomo-carlebach-songs
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:32 (four years ago) link
ahyup that's him
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 September 2019 15:36 (four years ago) link
Carlebach is/was a major player in the Jewish music world. If you've been to a Friday night service in the past decade or two that was traditional enough to do most of the full Hebrew songs/prayers but not ultra-orthodox, chances are good at least a melody or two of his was used. His #metoo transgressions were extensive and well known for a long time but surprise surprise most looked the other way. From what I gather he also had a cult leader-like persona -- center of gravity for hippy Jews in the Bay Area in the 60s, then started a moshav in Israel and a whole community of acolytes made aliyah with him and raised their families there. I used to be friendly with a bunch of their kids.
Definitely an interesting twist on the question of cancelling ppl's art, given that the venue is religious... shul is a place where ppl might feel that moral ambivalence/hypocrisy more acutely. otoh worldless melodies don't evoke the skeeviness of their creator the way the characters and plotlines of a Woody Allen movie do.
Also Hey Jews! I'm mostly a lurker on ilx but never saw this thread before.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 12 September 2019 17:27 (four years ago) link
I belong to a Jewish liturgical music group on fb whose only rule is no Carlebach
― Mordy, Thursday, 12 September 2019 17:30 (four years ago) link
Mordy I think my wife signed me up for that group too but I don't really go on facebook anymore. It's a good rule to diversify things even without the metoo stuff
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 12 September 2019 17:47 (four years ago) link
easy fast all
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 8 October 2019 23:06 (four years ago) link
I was kinda weak this year and ended my fast in the late afternoon. My staking the kids to the shul in the afternoon plans were thwarted and just sitting around the house dealing with two small kids on an empty stomach for three more hours didn't seem tenable anymore. It's so much easier to fast when you're in services all day.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 October 2019 02:26 (four years ago) link
Tried a Reconstructionist Service for Kol Nidre. They did Adon Olam to the tune of "This Little Light of Mine". Interesting
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 10 October 2019 03:31 (four years ago) link
x-post -- but yeah fasting in afternoon at home is harder.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 10 October 2019 03:36 (four years ago) link
“Adon Olam” can be sung to essentially any tune, I fondly recall singing it to the final Jeopardy tune
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 10 October 2019 04:49 (four years ago) link
Hola judíos!
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Thursday, 10 October 2019 05:15 (four years ago) link
Hi Jews. I've been felled by a nasty virus and have not made it out of the house, much less to services, in days.
(also: Not Actually Jewish, but Yom Kippur is my favorite)
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 10 October 2019 12:15 (four years ago) link
hope you get well soon. chag sameach
― one charm and one antiup quark (outdoor_miner), Thursday, 10 October 2019 14:21 (four years ago) link
well that was exhausting!
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 October 2019 14:53 (four years ago) link
by far the most intense part (for me, anyway) was a side-ceremony, a "healing circle", where people shared their personal struggles. Mostly health related, but just a lot of personal stories about sickness, fear of death etc
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 October 2019 14:56 (four years ago) link
followed by a communal rendition of the least-Jewish thing in the whole service (but which I really dig playing), "Wade in the Water"
omg what kind of hippie shul are you attending?
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 10 October 2019 17:10 (four years ago) link
A Reconstructionist one that's focused a lot on social justice/tikkun olam sorta stuff. The healing circle thing was an informal side-thing held in between the main Yom Kippur service and the Ne'ila (it was preceded by a yoga/meditation thing). Normally I wouldn't have gone, but the Rabbi needed a guitarist/accompanist.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 October 2019 17:14 (four years ago) link
Yeah my local Reconstructionist congregation is somehow both more and less hippy than the average Reform congregation. It is big on environmental activism but low on acoustic guitars. I like Reconstructionism a lot, am a Kaplan fan, etc., but I admit to eye-rolliness on some of the birkenstock aspects.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:28 (four years ago) link
quincie convert already! you've done the work
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:42 (four years ago) link
take the magic bath
I def prefer our instrumental and audience-participatory set-up to the organ + cantor routine I grew up with. the cellos bring a bit of classical chamber music to it, the clarinet and guitar bring the klezmer/folk side, and then we have a choir. Plus the Rabbi + percussionist hand drumming which adds a sort of Israeli/north african feel to things. idk I guess that's pretty hippy but I like it.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:43 (four years ago) link
There's also a couple classically trained vocal soloists, one handled Kol Nidre etc
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:44 (four years ago) link
A friend had a great facebook debate going on his wall about some nu-YK prayer where you congratulate yourself for your good deeds in addition to confessing your sins. It turned out it was created by the founder of "open orthodox" judaism, which was weird because it seemed at least as hippy-dippy and revisionist as anything you find in the reconstructionist movement.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:49 (four years ago) link
Jewish pluralism is a beautiful and nonlinear thing
― president of deluded fruitcakes anonymous (silby), Thursday, 10 October 2019 18:55 (four years ago) link
...take a sad song, and make it bubbe.
― Sassy Boutonnière (ledriver), Friday, 11 October 2019 23:54 (four years ago) link
We didn't even have an organ, just a solo acapella cantor (which could be very haunting)
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 12 October 2019 00:16 (four years ago) link
Our Reform temple is pretty reform, with choir, piano, guitar at times, social justice issues at the fore, etc. But last year I went to a bar mitzvah at a Reconstructionist synagogue in Oakland and boy, did it make our temple look stodgy.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 October 2019 01:56 (four years ago) link
There is a lot of singing and dancing
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 12 October 2019 02:00 (four years ago) link
I was in Costco today and waiting in line I heard the (really friendly!) person working the register ask each customer if they were interested in buying any "holiday stamps." Being a smartass, when she asked me I just very dryly asked her "which holiday?" And she kind of paused and said, "well, they've got Santa on them, so ..." And then she realized I was just teasing, because of course it was just Santa. I do think it's kind of lame to bother calling them "holiday stamps" if it's only one holiday represented and how it's represented isn't fooling anyone.
Anyway: hey Jews! Do any of you have a good comparative Judeo-Christian religion book recommendation? I realized only recently that I know next to nothing about Christianity, and not much more about Islam, but they all share so much with Judaism there's got to be a good book about their relationships, textual, historical, etc.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 26 November 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
might xpost this to outernational later but figure despite this not being an ilm thread it might be a good place to share this:https://daily.bandcamp.com/lists/the-hidden-world-of-psychedelic-jewish-folk
― Mordy, Thursday, 9 January 2020 22:07 (four years ago) link
what the hell?
that Shmulik Kraus track sounds like a post-Tropicalia Caetano Veloso outtake
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 9 January 2020 22:13 (four years ago) link
To offer a disrespectful I Love Comics answer to Josh’s question from November, I found Larry Gonick’s Cartoon History of the Universe books to be (in)decent on that front.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 9 January 2020 22:45 (four years ago) link
You could also go crazy and try the MacCulloch route: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126226424
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 9 January 2020 22:48 (four years ago) link
Josh - I asked a friend who teaches Judaism, Christianity, Islam and she recommended this text:
https://www.amazon.com/Jews-Christians-Muslims-Introduction-Monotheistic/dp/0205018254
― Mordy, Thursday, 9 January 2020 23:49 (four years ago) link
lol at textbook pricing tho
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 10 January 2020 00:09 (four years ago) link
true, might be able to grab a copy through the library? tho $40 for a used textbook isn't a terrible price.
― Mordy, Friday, 10 January 2020 00:12 (four years ago) link
it's on the grimly tolerable end certainly.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 10 January 2020 00:27 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkQATH3O1H8
― Mordy, Tuesday, 18 February 2020 19:37 (four years ago) link
p sure Jews and their cultural/media outlets aren't the source of anti-semitism but ok
New York is combatting anti-Semitism with a new ad campaign featured in Orthodox and Hasidic Jewish print and digital outlets, in addition to social media.
The New York City Commission on Human Rights launched a campaign to fight religious harassment and discrimination and to emphasize the city’s support for its Jewish population. The commission said in a release that the campaign was in response to rising anti-Semitic incidents in the city, the surrounding area and the country.
One of the new ads reads, “Jewish New Yorkers belong here. Anti-Semitism does not.”
The advertisements will be featured in Orthodox and Hasidic Jewish print outlets such as Hamodia, Jewish Press and Mishpacha, as well as online at The Jewish Week and in the NYC Human Rights Commission’s social media.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:20 (four years ago) link
¿?
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:26 (four years ago) link
Kinda like someone wants to be seen doing something more than they want to do something
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:27 (four years ago) link
run those ads in the Stormfront newsletter, I hear they need the money
― Pierre Delecto, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:27 (four years ago) link
maybe the ads are more to make the jewish community feel safe and supported rather than convince antisemites to stop hating jews?
― Mordy, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:34 (four years ago) link
that was the only rationale I could come up with
idk how comforting a bunch of dumb ads are when people are getting randomly murderedq
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 20 February 2020 20:36 (four years ago) link
A friend just had to cancel their daughter's bat mitzvah, which is in less than a month. Rescheduled date tbh. So ... will she have to learn an entirely new torah portion? I assume so!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 March 2020 17:32 (four years ago) link
our community's largest synagogue is not holding services this shabbat for the first time ever
― Mordy, Friday, 13 March 2020 17:33 (four years ago) link
we're still having small gathering stuff but I expect the kids' shul activities to shut down shortly. They were bummed about the purim megillah getting cancelled, and a shabbat thing we were gonna do next week is also not happening now.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 March 2020 17:37 (four years ago) link
(lol not rescheduled date tbh, tbd)
We got a generic warning for those at risk to take extra precautions, but also assurances that our synagogue will absolute abide by any recommendations and will be changing things as needed, either moving them to where there is more space or cancelling them outright.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 March 2020 17:43 (four years ago) link
My wife is the executive director of a synagogue. They're suspending all programs and operations as of today, including Shabbat services. We're in Western Mass. I know some places are going to be livestreaming services to an empty sanctuary.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 13 March 2020 17:45 (four years ago) link
Services are still going on here with distancing measures & no kiddush lunch, who knows for how long. We are organizing to shop for older congregants and leave groceries outside their doors.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 13 March 2020 17:50 (four years ago) link
A lot of older parents gonna be having seder alone this year. Ours are. I just see no way of traveling to their house and staying with them that doesn't involve a real risk of us bringing them virus.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 13 March 2020 18:46 (four years ago) link
So, um, what's the plan, everybody? A friend of mine joked that we're going to see more articles about Zoom seders than actual Zoom seders. The paltry Passover supplies around here get picked over pretty quickly in the best of times, so I hope no one is hoarding the matzoh.
On a slightly different note, current events will certainly lend an awkward vibe to tales of plague, first born and inviting in strangers. Keep your distance, Elijah.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 6 April 2020 03:39 (three years ago) link
Don’t have the heart to lead a zoom seder but I’m gonna make the dang brisket.
― silby, Monday, 6 April 2020 03:41 (three years ago) link
making my first seder without my parents :/ feels sad man
― Mordy, Monday, 6 April 2020 04:26 (three years ago) link
Zoom seder with mother-in-law, brisket
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 6 April 2020 04:41 (three years ago) link
I was out walking the dog this week and noticed for the first time that, a few houses down from, they have a minivan with the license plate KOL TOOV.
― Bougy! Bougie! Bougé! (Eliza D.), Monday, 6 April 2020 12:44 (three years ago) link
we will have our regular family seder with my mom on Zoom, most likely. I bought all the necessary supplies over the weekend.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 6 April 2020 14:55 (three years ago) link
Free Passover crossword puzzle incoming:
This week's crossword is a meta by @AimeeLucido + avcx forever-friend @metabymatt.It comes with an original drawing by New Yorker cartoonist Robert Leighton, which figures into the meta. If your family can't be together on Passover, try solving this together remotely!— American Values Club (@AVCXWord) April 6, 2020
― change display name (Jordan), Monday, 6 April 2020 15:48 (three years ago) link
Huh, so I guess it turns out we *are* doing a Zoom seder with our temple. Let's see how that turns out, but it could be worth it for the novelty alone.
Speaking of how things turn out, my younger daughter's bat mitzvah is (still, at least for now) scheduled for September. A lot of her friends had been teasing her for being on the young end, and the last of the bunch to be a bat mitzvah, but in an ironic twist all of their April and May and June services have been rescheduled for October, November, December. So she may end up being among the first!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 April 2020 22:21 (three years ago) link
lovely thought about korach that i just saw from Yeshayahu Leibowitz
"The Judaism of Moses is arduous. It means knowing that we are NOT a holy people. The Judaism of Korah is very comforting. It allows every Jew to be proud and boast that he is a member of the holy people, which is holy by its very nature. This obligates him to nothing. There is no greater opposition than between the conception of Am Segulah (a chosen people) as implying subjection to an obligation and Am Segulah as purely a privilege. He who empties the concept of the Jewish people of its religious content ... and still describes it as Am Segulah turns this concept into an expression of racist chauvinism.The uniqueness of the Jewish people is not a fact; it is an endeavor. The holiness of Israel is not a reality but a task. "Holy" is an attribute that applies exclusively to God. It is therefore inapplicable to anything in the natural or historical domain. He who does so apply it is guilty of idolatry. He exalts something natural or human to the level of the divine."
The uniqueness of the Jewish people is not a fact; it is an endeavor. The holiness of Israel is not a reality but a task. "Holy" is an attribute that applies exclusively to God. It is therefore inapplicable to anything in the natural or historical domain. He who does so apply it is guilty of idolatry. He exalts something natural or human to the level of the divine."
― Mordy, Tuesday, 23 June 2020 15:17 (three years ago) link
remarkable
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 20:26 (three years ago) link
Interesting. Maybe related (my theology is half-assed and rusty at best), my younger daughter has been working on her torah portion, which is right when Moses finally reaches the promised land and God more or less reiterates the key tenets of nascent Judaism while threatening those who deviate or fall off. And my daughter was a little annoyed, reading it as more or less extortion: you better do this, or else. And even though this is nothing I really think about, it did make me try to find a way to describe to her what could be going on there, namely that God is giving his followers his blessing but also a choice, but that choice requires work, and in return for doing that work God promises to be forgiving and let you try again, even if that work is not done right, or quickly, or consistently. It's less extortion and more God imparting the wise notion that putting in the effort, even failing, is better than just getting the holy imprimatur and coasting on his support. At least that's how I read it. Yes, you are chosen, but it is kind of a two way street, so don't get complacent.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 June 2020 20:39 (three years ago) link
god is all about continual improvement per ISO 9000
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 21:44 (three years ago) link
It makes a lot of sense that moses judaism would be sisyphean tbf
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 21:45 (three years ago) link
My daughter was all, wait a minute, if Moses did all this stuff for God, and brought the Jews to the promised land, then ... why doesn't he get to go into the promised land? (The reason given is clearly total BS.) Or poor Abraham, who is prepared to murder his son until a last minute reprieve, ha ha, all is good, except he and Isaac never see each other again, whoops. The pious can't win for losing.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 June 2020 21:52 (three years ago) link
here is my stance on God and the Jews:
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 21:58 (three years ago) link
you do what God tells you not for prudential reasons but because God tells you to
I usually try to read the torah with the understanding that the most extreme punishments are likely reserved for the things about wish the drafters intended to send the strongest message/the ideas that were held most sacred. Of course, this is circular to an extent, but I prefer to try to read the Torah by its own internal logic--to the extent that such logic is consistent--rather than according to my own independent moral values.
IIRC, Moses loses his privilege to enter the promised land because he not only disobeys God, but does so in a way that makes him, rather than God, appear to be the one with the power to bring forth water. By punishing Moses so severely, God sends a message that is directly related to the "crime," i.e. even Moses, the great leader, is not exempt from obedience to God.
An episode that always bothered me more was the smiting of Aaron's sons. I mean, obviously the fact that they die for not following the proper ritual practice emphasizes that said ritual practice must be really, really important, but it's hard for me to accept.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
or, more succinctly, xpost
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
if it were merely prudent to observe the laws and customs of the Torah it wouldn't be holy
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
Which is actually just a terrifying way of teaching the real moral lesson: doing the right thing because it is right, not because it is expedient or, as you say, prudent
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:09 (three years ago) link
Which is why it's always been more instructive to me to read "the right thing" as beyond the most literal interpretations. Like, what is the right thing here, why is this right thing "the right thing" and how is following these instructions getting me there? Vs. "do this or else," where "the right thing" is inseparable from god's will. *Why* does god instruct such and such is "the right thing?" What is the bigger picture?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
Yeah, I think that, in a roundabout sort of way, this concept helps to lay groundwork for universal moral or ethical principles -- you follow them out of "obedience" to a moral system rather than because of what is prudent or expedient in the moment. But I don't think that is the "why" of the Torah, the why of the Torah is God, period.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:25 (three years ago) link
Leibovitz, the subject of Mordy's revive, says that the Torah is not a system of morals or ethics, that a person can and should learn those independently of the Torah.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
Of course, that's probably a bit of an outlier view -- some of the Torah's laws (though not all), clearly have moral and ethical content. There are laws about kindness, stealing, murder. There are laws about hospitality. There are laws about putting up a railing to prevent injuries. There are laws that may have some connection to public health. There are laws that have no discernibly independent reason other than maybe superstition (don't mix wool and linen), there are laws that seem to have come from a place of rejecting the barbaric practices of the other.
I think it's more likely that at the time(s) it was written, the idea of having entirely separate categories of morals, ethics, civil laws, criminal laws, ritual laws, etc. that might be found in entirely separate texts was not so widespread, and weaving all of these together in one book made a kind of cultural sense.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:30 (three years ago) link
None of that really answers the question "So what am I supposed to do with all this as a Jew living in 2020?"
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:32 (three years ago) link
Which I think is what Josh is getting at
Yeah, that's the bigger picture I was talking about. The "why" of the Torah is always "because God," but I've always found interpretation outside of strict dogma more rewarding, personally.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:32 (three years ago) link
I think the confusion partly comes from a sort of pre-modern, pre-literate unity of physical, material, cultural and spiritual life. That's why it feels like such a mish-mash of different things at times -- there was no compartmentalization of "this book tells you how to be good to your fellow man" "this book tells you how to prepare a sacrifice" "this book tells you how to dress" "this book tells you how to celebrate a holiday" etc. And I think that's also why the laws can sometimes be confusing to modern people. But that's all still a historic sort of reading that, again, doesn't speak to what to do with all of it in 2020.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 22:38 (three years ago) link
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:32 PM (one hour ago)
one of the catchphrases of the reconstructionist movement is "tradition has a voice but not a veto" and one of the things that means for me is that as Moderns there's no getting around the fact that our values come from more than one place
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 23 June 2020 23:56 (three years ago) link
We've got the Deuteronomy we have and not the one we might want but as Jews who continue to study Torah and much else besides to this very day we have other resources than shrugging or rejection to take us out of the fundamentalist mindset Christian hegemony steers us into when we read it. Like, my understanding of the rabbinic treatment of the death penalty in the Torah was to patiently render it void through argument. One doesn't know if the Torah's death penalties were ever applied in any polity anywhere. One might suspect the rabbis of having started with their desired conclusion (make it impossible to render a death penalty) and finding the arguments to get them there. One might suspect similar things of (e.g.) the Conservative movement's rulings on homosexual behavior. It's not so much that we pick and choose our scriptures but that to us, they don't actually work like that, they work in a different way I can't adequately explain to myself.
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Wednesday, 24 June 2020 00:18 (three years ago) link
But like rabbinic cunning also isn't the only way to make sense of Torah. We know people wrote, redacted, and compiled the Tanakh, Jews like us, and wrote down their own practices and values and stories and lo, the received text. We make sense of it that way, sometimes. Some words in the Torah scarcely make sense to scholars, readings are disputed. And then in the liturgy we chant "v'ahavta et adonai elohecha", we try to love god with all our hearts, because after all god told us to, commands it, and maybe we make sense of some Torah that way. Most Torah, most of us don't know, we can't make sense of it because the time to study is short. The sweetest thing of all for Tevye was the idea of being rich enough to study, and he didn't even have Sefaria.
Maybe one might say, adopting an academic register, making sense of Torah is productive of Judaism.
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Wednesday, 24 June 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/29/in-search-of-king-davids-lost-empire
In search of David. Was he real and what did he do. Archeologists and more quoted
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 25 June 2020 14:24 (three years ago) link
We've been planning a bat mitzvah for September, which is going to happen in some way shape or form with the same or more or fewer restrictions than are in place right now. Currently the guidance is max 50 people, masked, socially distanced, though I doubt we'll come close to 50. We had a virtual meeting with the rabbi today about all the moving parts. Anyway, apparently rather than souvenir yarmulkes people are starting to print up souvenir face masks!
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 29 June 2020 18:41 (three years ago) link
And the younger daughter's bat mitzvah is now in the books! It was an interesting experience. About 25 guests, grouped by family and spread out in the community hall, everyone masked, other guests "attending" via Zoom on screen. Obviously it was not ideal, but we talked a bit after about how the imposed intimacy sort of gave the experience new meaning/significance. No party, no distractions (other than technology). Just people gathered together, orderly, doing the best the can with what they have to work with. Felt very ... fitting, in some ways, though it was also sad to see all these people who couldn't be there. Like our Aussie family that woke at 2am Sydney time to share the experience with us, or old friends stuck in their respective spaces. Both very weird but very fortunate to have the two grandparents in town, our first guests in months and the first we've seen of them in almost a year, it feels like. But there was no way they were going to stay home.
And my daughter did beautifully, of course.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 12 September 2020 22:44 (three years ago) link
mazel tov
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 13 September 2020 02:28 (three years ago) link
Rosh Hashanah online I guess
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 13 September 2020 02:29 (three years ago) link
Yeah, they're broadcasting out services on Vimeo, so that we can all stream it on our TVs.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 September 2020 02:46 (three years ago) link
mazel tov Josh!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 13 September 2020 13:41 (three years ago) link
https://youtu.be/PrS3H0Li7yo
Johnny Mathis doing Kol Nidre
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 September 2020 01:50 (three years ago) link
was watching our livestream. I had been reading up on the nebulous origins of kol nidre, about how it may have become traditional as an act of defiance in the face of forced conversation. Watching our temple (as I imagine many congregations are doing) work so hard to pull the service together against all odds might have been a less dire challenge but in its own way an act of inspiring tenacity in keeping with the roots of kol nidre.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 28 September 2020 02:10 (three years ago) link
Yom Kippur is such a beautiful holiday. I almost wish I'd have committed a transgression in the last year so I could make amends and ask someone forgiveness just to get in the spirit of things.
― the burrito that defined a generation, Monday, 28 September 2020 02:36 (three years ago) link
The local Rabbi I liked moved to Brooklyn and we were able to watch him doing a service from NY via zoom
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 September 2020 03:30 (three years ago) link
last couple hours of the fast are always the hardest, but I'm gonna make it
Tried with the online services but it's kind of depressing. We also just moved and were never even members of our prior neighborhood synagogue so I don't really have a congregation I feel a connection to right now, but being in person among strangers is still way better than watching on a screen. Next year I really hope to do the whole day at synagogue.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 28 September 2020 20:34 (three years ago) link
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/xmas.html
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 26 October 2020 21:06 (three years ago) link
Minor but funny gaffe:
When Abrams lost by just shy of 55,000 votes, she told Vogue: “I sat shiva for 10 days. Then I started plotting.”
https://external-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQApKBEDdV1spkdR&w=500&h=261&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.vogue.com%2Fphotos%2F5d41b1a2b9a8370008fb2566%2F16%3A9%2Fw_1280%2Cc_limit%2Fvogue-september-battle-royale-01.jpg&cfs=1&sx=0&sy=17&sw=1280&sh=668&ext=jpg&_nc_cb=1&_nc_hash=AQCB3HpSjPGhw0-w
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 6 November 2020 02:37 (three years ago) link
My wife asked me to get the materials from the mailboxes. "What are you talking about?" I asked. "Oh," she said, "I agreed to help the block make luminaries."
"Wait, luminaries?" I said. "Like, for Christmas!?"
"No," she said. "For the winter solstice."
And I said, get the fuck out of here. That's like people claiming there is no religious component to Christmas trees (true!) so they have nothing to do with Christmas (false!). Anyway, I tried to find any indication of people in America lighting luminaries for the solstice, or anything other than Christmas, and nada. As my daughter said, "even the word 'luminaries' sounds Christian," and my wife came close to shooting wine out her nose.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 01:22 (three years ago) link
I don’t even know what that is but it sounds goyish for sure
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 19 December 2020 01:52 (three years ago) link
Same
― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 19 December 2020 01:59 (three years ago) link
Is that like putting candles in paper bags?
― Andy the Grasshopper, Saturday, 19 December 2020 02:02 (three years ago) link
Sounds like an American Catholic thing, primarily Hispanic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminaria
― pomenitul, Saturday, 19 December 2020 02:04 (three years ago) link
Candles in paper bags is pretty universal, just saying
― mildew and sanctimony (soda), Saturday, 19 December 2020 02:59 (three years ago) link
It's convoluted. By the same token snickerdoodles might be considered Christian, because they get made for Christmas.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Saturday, 19 December 2020 03:04 (three years ago) link
If candles in paper bags were pretty universal I would have seen them over the past few decades any time other than just Christmastime. Now flaming brown bags with poop left on the front porch? That's universal.
We eat snickerdoodles all the time, so dunno. But egg not? More controversial.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 03:12 (three years ago) link
I had a gingerbread cookie my kids teacher made and it was good but I was thinking about how it tastes about equally foreign to me as Indian sweets.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Saturday, 19 December 2020 03:25 (three years ago) link
lol egg not. "Egg nog? More like egg *not*!"
Tonight we googled to see if there were other kinds of nog, and the answer is apparently ... not.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 03:52 (three years ago) link
flaming dogshit in paper bags is pretty universal
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 19 December 2020 06:21 (three years ago) link
I recall seeing streets with luminaries growing up in SE Pennsylvania, just as I have throughout my couple of decades here, so it's definitely more than a southwest thing, or a Latino thing. The catch is that neighborhoods often agree to it together, so that the whole street is lined, which means if you say no then you're the stinker. And yeah, they are pretty (which makes rejecting them even more obnoxious), and yeah, there have been lots of different reasons to put candles in bags on the sidewalk/street to light the way, historically/traditionally (with the southwest being one place that has a few reasons). But the notion that they're there to celebrate the winter solstice and not to light the way to for baby Jesus ... come on. It's always Christians that think their traditions are totally secular and have nothing to do with Christmas. Per one site:
Luminarias are used in many communities across the United States and in other countries. Each community has their own emphasis on why they carry out the tradition. Not all are for Christmas either. Some are to light the way to church. Some light the way for the Christ child. Some light the way for Pa Pa Noel, or Santa Claus.
So yeah, it's not always about Christmas, sometimes it's just about church, or Jesus, or Santa. You know, lots of reasons.
Anyway, it's extra odd that the neighbors (who are all great, don't get me wrong) are apparently dong this tonight ... which is neither the winter solstice (Monday) nor Christmas (Thursday).
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 13:51 (three years ago) link
It's always Christians that think their traditions are totally secular and have nothing to do with Christmas.
I said it's convoluted because Christmas is massively loaded down with traditions which occupy the gray area between secular and sacred, mainly because it long ago got mashed up with solstice-related festivities and a general desire to party down when it's dark, cold, and you're stuck inside.
There are hardcore carols like 'O, Holy Night' or 'Come, All Ye Faithful' that hard sell Christian beliefs. But you could also consider Jingle Bells to be 'Christian', because it is strongly attached to the Christmas holiday by tradition, in spite of the fact that it doesn't mention God, Jesus, prayer, church or the Christmas holiday at all, though it does mention some woman named Fanny Bride. Christian, or not? I'd rate it as slightly less religious than the dreidel song.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Saturday, 19 December 2020 17:32 (three years ago) link
Ironically, Jingle Bells is one of the few now Christmas songs *not* written for Christmas! In fact, some theorize it may have officially been one of the rare Thanksgiving songs ... before The Man got a hold of it and converted it to a Christmas song.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 18:09 (three years ago) link
Regardless, I pretty much consider anything done exclusively around the Christmas holiday for the Christmas holiday to be innately Christian, relatively innocuous or not.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 19 December 2020 18:12 (three years ago) link
Yeah “secular Christmas” is still a manifestation of Christian hegemony.
― is right unfortunately (silby), Saturday, 19 December 2020 19:44 (three years ago) link
But Christian hegemony happens all year around.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Saturday, 19 December 2020 19:49 (three years ago) link
Yes, it does.
― is right unfortunately (silby), Saturday, 19 December 2020 19:59 (three years ago) link
Hey Jews! I am making latkes tonight.
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 20 December 2020 02:04 (three years ago) link
Happy 10th night of Chanukah.
― is right unfortunately (silby), Sunday, 20 December 2020 02:17 (three years ago) link
It is a miracle, there is still oil for frying latkes on the 10th day
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 20 December 2020 02:18 (three years ago) link
I happened to put a tree for Pagan Winter Solstice. Planning on cooking some matzoh ball soup too
― octobeard, Sunday, 20 December 2020 03:40 (three years ago) link
My wife is Jewish and I’m a devout atheist with a fondness for Christmas stuff. We did the xmas thing together and when we had kids we started doing Hanukkah as wife started to get back into the faith. Now we’re stuck doing both holidays with my birthday, my wife’s and my dad’s birthdays all n December. It is TOO MUCH and I regret not getting off the Christmas train when I had the chance. UGH.
― Cow_Art, Sunday, 20 December 2020 04:16 (three years ago) link
Just a note that it is not "Miss Fanny Bride" in Jingle Bells, but "Miss Fanny Bright." Which makes it a little more naughty seeming.
― "Bi" Dong A Ban He Try (the table is the table), Sunday, 20 December 2020 12:59 (three years ago) link
The luminaries looked lovely last night, btw. I didn't realize it wasn't just our block but I guess 150+ blocks around here that banded together to do it. It was nice strolling around, looking at the solstice lights, listening to the solstice carols, checking out all the solstice decorations, lit-up solstice trees in the windows ...
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 December 2020 15:57 (three years ago) link
My solstice latkes were delicious
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Sunday, 20 December 2020 16:21 (three years ago) link
We cleaned the wax off and put away our solstice menorahs last night.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 December 2020 16:25 (three years ago) link
it is not "Miss Fanny Bride" in Jingle Bells, but "Miss Fanny Bright."
this version rhymes "bright" with "side", which is just a shitty rhyme. which prompts the question, what was wrong with those people?
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Sunday, 20 December 2020 19:11 (three years ago) link
Drunk.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 December 2020 19:38 (three years ago) link
Today I learned, just now, from wikipedia:
Music historian James Fuld notes that "the word jingle in the title and opening phrase is apparently an imperative verb." In the winter in New England in pre-automobile days, it was common to adorn horses' harnesses with straps bearing bells as a way to avoid collisions at blind intersections, since a horse-drawn sleigh in snow makes almost no noise.
So it was more like, Jingle, bells, jingle! Jingle all the way!!"
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 20 December 2020 19:41 (three years ago) link
Got take out dim sum last night (where the restaurant wished me a merry Christmas), the kids built these gingerbread house kits we bought from a local bakery (they've never built them before; one got so frustrated at her broken house that she literally resorted to a hot glue gun, the other's was so top heavy it collapsed on itself), prepared breakfast for 30 for a homeless shelter, watched Wonder Woman stink it up, listened to a half-assed lecture about Jews on Christmas (which offered so many reasons for the Chinese restaurant tradition but somehow missed *because they're open*), picked through cookies and other stuff gifted from all the neighbors. A fine not-Christmas was had by all.
The night before we went to a friend's backyard for a modified Feast of the Seven Fishes thing. It was 17 degrees The oysters and shrimp cocktails literally froze, but I got to put to good use one of my hanukah presents, a heated vest with a light that pulses and glows like a tiny little Iron Man generator.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 December 2020 15:32 (three years ago) link
I didn't realize that the member of the New York Dolls band who just died from cancer, Syl Sylvain (not his full birth name) was an Egyptian Jew who ended up in the US with his family. I think they left Egypt when it started to be a little uncomfortable there for Jews shortly after the formation of the country of Israel in 1948
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 17 January 2021 22:09 (three years ago) link
Hey Jews who observe the not-quite-minor-but-still-not-totally-mainstream-holidays. Happy Purim!
Topical elements of our synagogue's Purim Shpiel last night (all on Zoom):
- Vashti refused to show up in-person and maskless for the king's party, choosing instead to participate remotely via Zoom, prompting him to find a new queen- Vashti + Fauci = Faucti, played by congregant & chief infectious disease specialist at local hospital- Q Haman
Forced and awkward puns and lots of corniness, as is the tradition, but got a few chuckles out of me
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 26 February 2021 18:21 (three years ago) link
Our temple did a cool cross cultural exchange:
"Beyond the Hamantaschen - The Scroll of Esther begins with an account of Ahasuerus’s kingdom and tells us his kingdom stretched mei Hodu ad Kush, from India to Ethiopia. So… for Purim this year we are offering take-out food delivered to the parking lot from Mantra by Indian Garden and Addis Café."
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 26 February 2021 18:28 (three years ago) link
wow, nice! 2 of my favorite cuisines. and this is definitely one of the holidays that could use some gastronomic updating. will push for similar here next year (though i live in a total, um, food desert for Ethiopian)
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 26 February 2021 18:41 (three years ago) link
AITA: My husband (35m) made a huge party with his friends and got super drunk and asked me (32f) to come by wearing just a crown and I said I don’t want to go. His evil advisor (49m) is suggesting he kill me but like idk his party seemed stupid. AITA?— Dr. Hannah Lebovits (@HannahLebovits) February 21, 2021
― Wayne Grotski (symsymsym), Friday, 26 February 2021 18:47 (three years ago) link
Q Haman is great
My housemates and I finally got around to making hamantaschen yesterday. We really upped our game this year; one housemate made the poppyseed filling herself instead of buying it in a can, we had some savory ones with caramelized onions, and I wanted a really sour filling for some of them so I cooked down sour cherries with sugar and thickened them with flour, so that basically they were little sour cherry hand pies.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 1 March 2021 18:06 (three years ago) link
nice! sour cherry sound fantastic. in my house we're making them with an 8-year-old and a 6-year-old so it's strawberry and apricot jelly right out of the jar at the moment lol. I look forward to branching into more refined tastes in coming years!
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Monday, 1 March 2021 18:35 (three years ago) link
They were really good, I was very happy with them. We did some apricot jelly out of the jar as well, for tradition's sake. And some fig jam and goat cheese, which I haven't tried yet but have high hopes for.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 1 March 2021 18:38 (three years ago) link
all those hamentaschen sound incredible lily
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 1 March 2021 19:05 (three years ago) link
My sister (in England) really wanted to make them with prune and poppy seed fillings, but says she has never seen either for sale there. I guess it never occurred to her to ... make it.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 1 March 2021 19:28 (three years ago) link
L'shana Tovah! Zoomed a service today; and then had dinner with Mom , my son and his gf. Was a little different without my Dad who passed away last November. My wife and I did the cooking.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 02:58 (two years ago) link
Services were nice today, a nice return. I did have a chilling thought, though, when I looked around the maybe half-full sanctuary (many were at home, streaming, no doubt wary of return) and thought, imagine if all those missing people had been taken by the pandemic? I feel very fortunate that so many were absent by choice.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:04 (two years ago) link
Virtual services for us. Kids service in the morning with our 6 & 11 year daughters. Grown folks service was a little later and we made the older kid sit through it. At times she was twitchy and desperately looking for a distraction but occasionally I could see the words were hitting her hard. She was teary-eyed when the rabbi spoke of the hardships of the past year. It meant a lot that something said during a service registered with her.
― Cow_Art, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:31 (two years ago) link
Our synagogue is, uh, blessed to have a lot of outdoor space and set up a huge tent on a grassy field and did in-person outdoors. Masks required, vax and reservation required for first day of the holiday but honor system the second day b/c no reservations. It was really nice. Humorously, the COVID Task Force implemented a "no shmoozing" rule to avoid close contact - you could socialize once you were out of the physical vicinity of the service but they didn't want people congregating. There was absolutely beautiful weather here in western Mass, which really made the experience.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 9 September 2021 14:08 (two years ago) link
fwiw, ours had masks required, and while I assume most if not all were vaxxed, there was not a vaccine requirement. The sanctuary was divided in half, more or less, with the front half marked as not/less socially distanced and the back half spread out and more explicitly socially distanced, but because it was nowhere near capacity those is the front could spread out and/or pod up with friends if they wanted. The kids and their services were all outside. The rabbis acknowledged that everyone has their own degree of comfort, and that no one should put themselves in a position that made them feel unsafe, but I think everyone was OK with how things went.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 9 September 2021 14:20 (two years ago) link
Outdoor under a tent, masked, really nice to do it not on the screen and I'm not even that religious
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 9 September 2021 15:41 (two years ago) link
Great service today, felt weirdly special. We had temple member Tavi Gevinson's mom (who is a Norwegian convert who moonlights as a Hebrew tutor) chant the Haftorah, we had temple member blues singer Joanna Connor perform (contextualized by a great sermon about how it's sometimes OK to feel bad), we got the great news that since the pandemic broke out there has not been a single outbreak among the kids in the preschool, and that after planning for the financial worst the temple not only didn't have to cut its budget but actually received *more* donations. And then to top it all off we had the junior rabbi forget to turn his wireless mic off when he went to lead the kids service outside so, just like in "The Naked Gun," we heard his disembodied upbeat voice reverberating through the hall. The main rabbi even joked we were lucky he didn't use the bathroom.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 16 September 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
From a Smithsonian Folklife article “The modern potato latke was not inevitable “
While the incorporation of the potato in European diets introduced Jewish home cooks to a new potential ingredient for their latkes, the invention of Crisco in 1911 spurred further cooking options. In Eastern Europe, latkes were historically fried in schmaltz, rendered poultry fat. Observant Jews following the laws of kashrut do not eat meat and dairy products in the same meal, so latkes cooked in schmaltz could only be eaten alongside meat or non-dairy dishes. Crisco is made from vegetable oils and seeds, and thus is parve (neither meat nor dairy). Thanks to this technological change, Jewish cooks had the option of frying and eating latkes in a new way
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 17:04 (two years ago) link
https://folklife.si.edu/magazine/foodways-holidays-hanukkah-latkes?fbclid=IwAR0qg6QMc25A1tJEBcMmaWMsH7lqwuNVWYNYjFqSnkouV2mwlH7Zf2YDdI0
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 17:05 (two years ago) link
I am now thinking about how delicious a schmaltz-fried latke must be
― 《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 1 December 2021 17:58 (two years ago) link
Yesterday my daughter told me a teacher of hers wished her and another Jewish student a "Happy Seventh Night!" My daughter told the teacher it wasn't the seventh night, it was the third. The teacher furrowed her brow, said oh, then asked, well, doesn't Hanukkah last seven nights? And my daughter said ... no.
Another Jewish student in a different class was asked by a classmate if she was from Israel. The girl said no. The other kid then followed up with "but aren't you Jewish?" And the first said yeah. And the other kid asked "but how could you be Jewish if you're not from Israel?" (This is 9th grade, btw, not 1st grade). The first girl said you don't have to be from Israel to be Jewish, her family was mostly from Poland, and the second kid, shocked, said "Poland? But Poland isn't a Jewish country!"
Then there was an online discussion my kid saw, so buyer beware, but the gist was someone was convinced Hanukkah had something to do with Hitler, and a person righteously corrected them and explained that, no, Hanukkah had nothing to do with Hitler. Hanukkah was about something that happened thousands of years ago, whereas Hitler had to do with the Holocaust ... "in the '90s."
Last was my same daughter's objection to people that say "Happy Hanukkah, to all that celebrate." And she was super annoyed, because no one ever says "Merry Christmas, to all that celebrate." It's always for non-Christian holidays, and it comes off sooooo patronizing.
Anyway. Happy Hanukkah.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 December 2021 18:06 (two years ago) link
no one ever says "Merry Christmas, to all that celebrate.
I do!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 1 December 2021 18:18 (two years ago) link
happy samhain, to all who slaughter livestock
― When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 1 December 2021 18:57 (two years ago) link
hag sameach to all, even the losers and the haters
― symsymsym, Thursday, 2 December 2021 02:14 (two years ago) link
more latke history:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/12/the-great-latke-lie/420018/
― symsymsym, Thursday, 2 December 2021 02:15 (two years ago) link
I always assumed it was different in other parts of North America but after growing up in BC I am never shocked by gentile ignorance of even the most basic facts about Judaism
― symsymsym, Thursday, 2 December 2021 02:19 (two years ago) link
gotta whole latke love
― When Young Sheldon began to rap (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 2 December 2021 22:38 (two years ago) link
Huh:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/dec/25/bambi-cute-lovable-vulnerable-or-a-dark-parable-of-antisemitic-terror?fbclid=IwAR3rte1amicW2qK0nkL54vbMpPxmoRuP9Z3s8c9Ap2PPlSImEiPxrCzA6Kc
It’s a saccharine sweet story about a young deer who finds love and friendship in a forest. But the original tale of Bambi, adapted by Disney in 1942, has much darker beginnings as an existential novel about persecution and antisemitism in 1920s Austria.Now, a new translation seeks to reassert the rightful place of Felix Salten’s 1923 masterpiece in adult literature and shine a light on how Salten was trying to warn the world that Jews would be terrorised, dehumanised and murdered in the years to come. Far from being a children’s story, Bambi was actually a parable about the inhumane treatment and dangerous precariousness of Jews and other minorities in what was then an increasingly fascist world, the new translation will show.In 1935, the book was banned by the Nazis, who saw it as a political allegory on the treatment of Jews in Europe and burned it as Jewish propaganda. “The darker side of Bambi has always been there,” said Jack Zipes, professor emeritus of German and comparative literature at the University of Minnesota and translator of the forthcoming book.
Now, a new translation seeks to reassert the rightful place of Felix Salten’s 1923 masterpiece in adult literature and shine a light on how Salten was trying to warn the world that Jews would be terrorised, dehumanised and murdered in the years to come. Far from being a children’s story, Bambi was actually a parable about the inhumane treatment and dangerous precariousness of Jews and other minorities in what was then an increasingly fascist world, the new translation will show.
In 1935, the book was banned by the Nazis, who saw it as a political allegory on the treatment of Jews in Europe and burned it as Jewish propaganda. “The darker side of Bambi has always been there,” said Jack Zipes, professor emeritus of German and comparative literature at the University of Minnesota and translator of the forthcoming book.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 December 2021 19:23 (two years ago) link
Shana Tova.
Zooming Romemu Brooklyn service as I like the Rabbi who used to be near me at 6th & I in Washington DC
― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 September 2022 15:20 (one year ago) link
Rabbinical lol this morning: "Today we are celebrating the creation of the world 5783 years ago. Of course, some of those years were much longer than others. Like the last two."
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 26 September 2022 18:16 (one year ago) link
Ha.
The rabbi in the service I viewed addressed that joke's concept in a more serious way and noted that someone said he was very negative. He asserted that is just how things are, and that despite all the painful negativity around us, we have to work on changing ourselves for the better and that the atmosphere around us would eventually change but we need to be patient. He quoted a Fugees lyric as part of this sermon (while acknowledging that might date him)
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 27 September 2022 17:25 (one year ago) link
which lyric?
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 28 September 2022 01:26 (one year ago) link
there's a latke cart near my house so i thought i'd go out there to celebrate the high holy days. i asked them to give me the most popular thing on their menu. they gave me a bacon latke.
not really a big jewish population around these parts, i don't think.
― Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 21:07 (one year ago) link
"The latkes here are treyf... and the portions, oy, so small!"
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 28 September 2022 21:49 (one year ago) link
whoopsie
KFC’s German branch has apologized for seeming to encourage its customers to mark the anniversary of Kristallnacht — the notorious Nazi pogrom against Jews — by eating chicken, saying that a promotional message was sent in error as a result of an automated push notification.The pogrom that began on Nov. 9, 1938, is known as the night of broken glass, and is widely commemorated as the start of the Holocaust. It was a coordinated assault on German Jews and their homes, businesses and synagogues. On Wednesday, KFC Germany sent a message to users of its app with the title “Anniversary of the Reich’s pogrom night,” according to reports in the German news media and screen shots of the promotion that circulated widely on Twitter. The message invited customers to enjoy “tender cheese with crispy chicken.”
The pogrom that began on Nov. 9, 1938, is known as the night of broken glass, and is widely commemorated as the start of the Holocaust. It was a coordinated assault on German Jews and their homes, businesses and synagogues. On Wednesday, KFC Germany sent a message to users of its app with the title “Anniversary of the Reich’s pogrom night,” according to reports in the German news media and screen shots of the promotion that circulated widely on Twitter. The message invited customers to enjoy “tender cheese with crispy chicken.”
― “Cheeky cheeky!” she trills, nearly demolishing a roadside post (forksclovetofu), Friday, 11 November 2022 19:15 (one year ago) link
Someone just plugged holidays.xml in there without checking and fired some marketing interns
― G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Friday, 11 November 2022 19:16 (one year ago) link
Hey Jews. How y'all doin'? I most assuredly am not looking to turn this into yet another political thread discussing you-know-what, but thought it might be a good space to share a bit about where I'm holding these days.
I think I'm on the very extreme end of Jewishly-engaged ilxors - my kids go to a Jewish school, the vast majority of people we see socially are Jewish, and my partner is, uh, the director of our synagogue. We live in about as progressive a community as you can find outside of the most urban of areas (we're not urban) and shit has been pretty crazy here. Our rabbi stepped down about 4 months ago to take a different job, and the search for a new one is nascent, so there is a decidedly inconvenient vacuum of leadership at the synagogue. A sizeable portion of our community not only proudly identifies as anti-Zionist, but would probably say that this is a central pillar of their Jewish identity, driven by values like human rights and moral courage. This faction -- which, while it skews quite a bit younger than I, includes a number of our friends -- has been protesting for a ceasefire, getting arrested doing so, and drafting language about the occupation for our community leaders to consider incorporating into their own statements. Simultaneously, like probably any synagogue, we have plenty of folks demanding public declarations of unconditional support for Israel, questioning where our Israeli flag is (it, alongside our US flag, came down during some minor renovation a few years ago and sneakily hasn't gone back up), and generally finding bogeymen in any criticism of Israel. Oh yes and also there are quite a few Israeli expats in the congregation, including a guy who grew up in Kfar Aza and had several cousins and close childhood family friends murdered and other cousins currently being held hostage. Along with a few other people at the synagogue, my wife has been thrust into the position of making statements, trying to hold the community together, and being consulted by any number of local civic leaders. Let's just say she's been working a lot of late nights, and absorbing a lot of abuse.
I haven't been engaging in the political discussion here on ilx, and have been trying my damnedest to stay out of it in other forums as well, both online and irl. I've just had way too many experiences where both parties come into an interaction looking for and taking for granted that they will find support and solidarity, and instead come out feeling more alone and alienated after someone says the ever so slightly wrong thing that makes it clear you don't see 100% eye-to-eye. Instead, I've been working really hard to (a) stay humble, (b) put the value of human life above all else when compelled to figure out how I feel, and (c) recognize that whatever self-righteous, vitriolic, cocksure arguments people make are actually driven by the roiling emotions this situation is dredging up. Pain, sadness, confusion, anger, trauma. I am a therapist so it is pretty on brand for me to "focus on the feelings" rather than the content of what people say, but I do believe that that's where solidarity is to be found, and it doesn't seem like division and bitterness are doing us any favors getting towards any positive outcomes.
Not sure if I'm even looking for anything by posting this, other than getting it out of my head and articulated. But it has felt impossible to find spaces that aren't going to politicize whatever someone says and try to shift you left or right to fill a role. If others are finding it as daunting to hold and articulate a nuanced perspective that doesn't fit into the prescribed boxes, in social spaces, I welcome your solidarity! Bonus if said experience is informed by being a Jew. ilx has very slowly over the past few years turned me from an exclusive internet lurker into an occasional poster, and I have a lot of respect for the level of discourse here, self-deprecating "new board description"-type comments notwithstanding. So I have a little spark of hope that I can say this stuff here and get responses without it degenerating. But if this goes unnoticed, that's ok too, feels good just to get it out.
tl;dr: it's hard out here for a Jew in October 2023.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 05:34 (five months ago) link
Thank you for posting. Sincere and heartfelt, I wish the best things for you and your community
― #1 García Fan (H.P), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 05:52 (five months ago) link
lovely post.
I also really appreciate the quality of discussion on this board at times like this. And I'm glad I'm not responsible for crafting any sort of public-facing statement - leading a synagogue in Oct 2023 must be a thankless task.
― symsymsym, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 05:53 (five months ago) link
Thank you both <3
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 06:05 (five months ago) link
Wonderful, sustaining post Laurel. I would say “thank you” but only if it were multiplied a thousand times
― Preach The Crapen (flamboyant goon tie included), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 06:29 (five months ago) link
I've just had way too many experiences where both parties come into an interaction looking for and taking for granted that they will find support and solidarity, and instead come out feeling more alone and alienated after someone says the ever so slightly wrong thing that makes it clear you don't see 100% eye-to-eye.
I feel this very, very hard. You are not alone.
Bonus if said experience is informed by being a Jew.
Omg, I feel this so hard. You have no idea.
I will just add that I think people may underrate how difficult it is to be receptive to information that conflicts with your previously held notions when emotions are high. Also, having a lot of people yelling at you because you did not word things in exactly the right way or you did not pick up on someone's sarcastic quip just multiplies the difficulty.
― felicity, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 06:55 (five months ago) link
I'm not Jewish but I am constantly mistaken for being Jewish, which is close enough right? jk
What you say about your synagogue reminds me of family, in that you're sort of stuck with each other, and love each other, and political events can expose faultlines that seem unbridgeable, yet you have to find a way of living with them.. Perhaps this is a model for the world??
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 08:56 (five months ago) link
What a lovely and thoughtful post, I would love for you say more down the line, if you feel like it.
I think defensiveness, unprocessed anger and getting things wrong are a natural part human relating, and we shouldn't be ashamed of messing things up, but it takes a lot of practice (or a lucky good temperament) to get past those things -- and "having time to get past things" can feel like a luxury or an impossibility when you're stressed or it feels like you're under siege.
I love that therapist phrase "rupture and repair" (I'm a Jewish trainee therapist, it turns out) and I wish it was a bigger part of the current therapy-speak-vogue (as opposed to overvaluing narcissistic self-belief).
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 09:44 (five months ago) link
Yes, very good post. Sometimes Judaism and being Jewish is complicated. I'm not even sure all four of us in my immediate family are on the same page about a lot of things. This past Yom Kippur (for non-Jews, or anyone, this was back at the end of September), our Rabbi's sermon was almost entirely focused on the dangerous rightward swing of Israel, and those at the other end of the political spectrum (including many of his fellow activist friends in Israel) pushing back. And yet, he has many friends there now, many in danger, some of whom may be dead. How do you process that conflict, that duality? It's hard. Many of us are, in his words, "fine but not really OK."
I'm bringing all this up not to be political, but just to affirm, yeah, sometimes, even often, Judaism and being Jewish is complicated, and when I encounter debates (on ILX, in real life, anywhere) that start from a position of absolute certainty and conviction, I sometimes find it alienating, at best. And yeah, said experience is informed by being a Jew.
Per Tracer, my synagogue honestly does feel like a second family to me, with my membership/association predicated almost entirely on those feelings rather than the pull of religion, specifically. When we hear certain jokes or references, we understand. When they have to remind everyone at services where the emergency exits are, or where the children in babysitting will be lead to safety, or which doors to the building to use because of heightened security concerns, we all understand. When a Temple member tells the story of why she swims every day - because her mother escaped from the Nazis in Hungary by diving into a river in the dead of winter and somehow making it to freedom with a bullet in her back - we understand that, too.
When my older daughter was applying to colleges, a significant Jewish population was important to her, because of the comfort that community provides. She may not agree with everyone, she may not like everyone, but she knows they (we) share many similar experiences and stories, and given the anxieties of life (let alone anxiety in times of acute crisis) that provides her a sense of security she does not always find elsewhere.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:35 (five months ago) link
I admittedly feel a bit alone lately, although at least my wife sees things similarly to me. I got briefly roped into this chat group of local Jews, which I was hoping was going to be positive because my town tends to be very liberal to left and I figured there would be more complexity to the discussion, but it's just a lot of "Look at what this professor said!" Eventually it devolved into a kind of campaign against our village's mayor for not making a statement in support of the 10/7 victims. I suspect her sympathies are more pro-Palestinian and I honestly do not care. This is a village of 8,000 people with a commuter train station and a small downtown. I do not need our mayor to take any overt stance on Israel-Palestine and I kind of am glad she doesn't. Several people in the group kept asking that anyone seeking to campaign against the mayor (who, fwiw, I don't even like that much for more localized reasons) keep it in a separate group that they had created since not everyone was interested in joining that fight. They kept doing it over and over again and they were dominating the conversation and I finally just left.
I am sympathetic to but can't really align myself with the Free Palestine movement for reasons I don't want to get into in order to avoid a political debate in this thread. I feel a lot of pain watching what is happening in Gaza but also feel that pain over what happened in Israel is being denied under various academic-sounding justifications. I suppose Palestinians would say the same has always been done to them.
My personality has always been allergic to being a joiner and going along with any party line, which leaves me as sort of an island. I grew up conservative Jewish and I'm the son of a cantor. Jewishness and synagoguge were a huge part of my life growing up, and I don't actually have any ill feeling toward that, in fact I have felt the urge to reconnect with it in recent years. The prominence of zionism in synagogues has complicated that for me, as has my allergy to stuff that feels "clubby" like youth groups when I was younger, Hillel in college, and today any sort of Jewish group putting on officious vigils and rallies. I find Jewish Voice for Peace simplistic and weird tbh. I saw them wearing talit and blowing shofars in the capital, like a cartoon of Judaism with no context.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 13:50 (five months ago) link
thanks everyone, the responses means a lot.
Part of what's so exhaustingly intense is that people engaged on all sides/perspectives seem to believe that their cause is infinitely important and righteous, and this belief is reinforced in a completely unmitigated way by their respective media bubbles. Aside from how incompatible with humility and fallibility that is on principle, it makes the expression of any other opinion look beyond the pale, and needless to say shuts down any sort of dialogue or connection.
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 15:40 (five months ago) link
Love you, Jews! I got your back! Stay strong!
Sincerely, the dopey goy with Jewish friends and family
― scott seward, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:34 (five months ago) link
I have zero useful info to convey here but just want to recognize that the posts above have really struck a chord (with this non jew who found her spouse on JDate and iirc started this thread ages ago lol).
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:36 (five months ago) link
And ditto what Scott said!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 16:37 (five months ago) link
Part of what's so exhaustingly intense is that people engaged on all sides/perspectives seem to believe that their cause is infinitely important and righteous, and this belief is reinforced in a completely unmitigated way by their respective media bubbles. Aside from how incompatible with humility and fallibility that is on principle, it makes the expression of any other opinion look beyond the pale, and needless to say shuts down any sort of dialogue or connection.― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, October 24, 2023 8:40 AM bookmarkflaglink
― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Tuesday, October 24, 2023 8:40 AM bookmarkflaglink
This is a very good point. When I was more naïve I used to think of "righteousness" as a good thing. Then I saw how righteousness turns to justified. And how justified turns to intolerant.
So I have developed kind of a fear of extremely self-righteous or self-justified people, and I try very hard not to become what I despise- intolerant.
Anyway I think this revive came at an extremely good time and I appreciate all the positivity within it.
― felicity, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:02 (five months ago) link
good posts, all. a lot of my feelings are echoed here. i have typed up and deleted many social media posts in response to the discourse, and ultimately have declined to say anything at all, in support of israel or palestine. it just isn't worth it. i feel what i feel, and that is gonna have to be enough.
here's what i've been very close to posting: the first was a message about the bloodthirstiness and dehumanization of palestinians i've been seeing on the feeds of nominally liberal jewish folks, the second was a message asking american jews to take a step back and think about who is really in the most danger right now. hint: they don't live in the new york metropolitan area.
but ultimately, i didn't want to add to the noise, or start a hostile conversation that might cause some real life blowback for me, my wife, my mom & dad, etc.
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 17:45 (five months ago) link
I mentioned Jonathan Katz's substack posts in the other thread, but today he posted a personal essay on how his views on Israel and Palestine evolved since childhood through his years in school (encompassing a residency in Israel) and his current profession and newfound fatherhood, growing more complicated and despondent.
FWIW, I've always been an observer on the outside - I grew up with many Jewish friends, so much that I was really green in terms of how much anti-semitism there was in the world and how very few actually identify as being Jewish (as a child, I just presumed there was any many Jewish Americans as Christians). I didn't know anyone who Muslim until college, and over the course of those four years, I became close friends with many from different countries, and in most cases they were the first people I knew from their homelands. (When 90% of what you "knew" about Iran came from idiotic comedies and action films, it really is an eye opener when you engage in the real world.) Given the world events of the past 20 years and grieving over one of my own friends killed in the Middle East has turned me into a likely pacifist. I can't say for sure - I never thought of identifying myself as one and keep thinking there may be a scenario where I would stray from that philosophy - but it's come to the point that whenever I process these things they seem very present rather than distant, and I find an unshakeable disbelief in both violence and revenge. I feel more and more alone in this for a lot of reasons, but I relate to a lot of Katz's expressed feelings - for whatever reason, that brings some measure of hope even if it's cloaked in a lack of faith that the winds will shift towards peace.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 19:00 (five months ago) link
*there was as many
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 19:02 (five months ago) link
*who was Muslim*engage with*World events of the past 23 years
sorry, too many typos
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 19:04 (five months ago) link
very sorry for your friend.
― felicity, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 19:26 (five months ago) link
That Katz piece was very good, thanks.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 19:50 (five months ago) link
yes, I have been looking for exactly that, thank you.
― felicity, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 20:49 (five months ago) link
Agreed, can identify with being raised with unquestioning Zionism and a very antiseptic story of Israel, and the mounting degrees of disillusionment over the years (I never went on the trip though).
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 20:51 (five months ago) link
another goy checking in. it's just... so hard watching this unfold. the... i don't say anything because i don't know what to say, who i'm talking to and why. i don't... like, my personal opinions about a war half the world over, what does it matter? who cares, you know, what i think? it's the people i know, and i don't think i personally know any jewish people who think that what israel's leaders are doing is right, or _justified_. or at least, nobody who's willing to speak up to justify what the israeli leadership is doing.
muslims get called "terrorists", jewish people get called... i don't even know, i don't pay that much attention. people say things about the people i know, things that aren't true.
i grew up in northern new jersey, and anti-semitism seemed so... stupid. there was anti-semitism. i heard once that an entire boy scout troop quit when they found out that someone in their troop was jewish. it seemed so profoundly ignorant and self-defeating. like, what the fuck did they think? where did they think they were living? i didn't understand why _anybody_ would hate jews. jewish people were just an ordinary, everday part of my life.
i've moved a lot and i'm still surprised that it's not like that most places. a lot of places, everything people know about judaism is filtered through the lens of israeli politics. when i lived in indianapolis, i heard that some people called the part of town where most of the jewish people lived, around 71st and meridian, the "gaza strip". i was still trying to wrap my head around the idea that there was a _part of town_ where most of the jewish people lived.
i still knew a couple jewish people in indianapolis, visited the synagogue near 71st and meridian. they stood out, unlike in new jersey, but they were still part of my everyday life. i moved out here to pdx and just... nothing. the absolute ignorance people have here about jewish people is pretty amazing. there used to be a latke food cart near where i live. i went there on rosh hashanah last year and asked them what their most popular latke was. "the bacon latke", they said. that's how much most people around here understand about judaism.
these days i know a fair few jewish people. it comes up sometimes. when people are multiply marginalized, there tends to be overlap. i saw this one lady give a class at she bop, she had this rad tattoo that's a combination of the star of david and the trans symbol. she's studying to be a rabbi, i hear. i think that's cool. why shouldn't she be? kalonymus ben kalonymus was a rabbi. there are probably jewish people in pdx who aren't queer, but i don't think i've ever met any of them. i get the impression that all of the jewish people out here are also queer.
i don't know. i think jewish people are awesome. i think judaism, this sounds weird, i think judaism is awesome. because it's complicated. because there's so much to it. i don't understand why so many people act like it isn't.
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 21:08 (five months ago) link
There are about 50,000 Jews in Portland! Roughly 3 times as many as in Indianapolis.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 21:26 (five months ago) link
There are about 50,000 Jews in Portland! Roughly 3 times as many as in Indianapolis.― Guayaquil (eephus!)
― Guayaquil (eephus!)
yeah, but how many of them are straight? :)
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 22:13 (five months ago) link
What I've noticed in recent times is this tendency on the part of certain people to consistently be, "this isn't anti semitic and here's why" anytime anything is professed that might actually really be a bit anti-semitic.
a kid at my son's school told some Israeli kids he was in conflict with that he supported Hamas. It didn't go over well. My son knows him pretty well and it's tough for him, considering his mom's family and their history. He carries my Irish last name and I've told him he'll likely unfortunately hear things from people in the future who wouldn't know he's Jewish, and it might hurt. He understands it. He loves everyone though, amazing how well he sees both sides at age 12.
As an Irish Catholic dude I don't have the same perspective but I'll admit some anger and hurt over a few callous-seeming posts on the Israel threads in the wake of the Hamas attack and the Israeli response. A couple things felt a bit coded to me.
― omar little, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 22:30 (five months ago) link
Yeah. I'm not wasting my time arguing about it anymore, but definitely felt that way. I liked the Katz piece and related to some of it but don't fully buy into the settler colonialist framework/analysis. I think that any side in a war has its apologetics, and that's understandable. I don't have to adopt them though.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 22:35 (five months ago) link
The way I see it, everything that's happening is bigger than me, including the narrative shifts. Some of those narrative shifts are understandable. I don't have the energy to play whack-a-mole with every piece of rhetoric that rubs me the wrong way. In extreme cases I'll call it out.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 24 October 2023 22:36 (five months ago) link
Never a good sign when we get an email from the high school emphasizing that "derogatory or hateful speech has no place in our school and will not be tolerated. Every student deserves a safe, welcoming place in which to learn, and we condemn antisemitic and Islamophobic speech and acts."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 October 2023 22:38 (five months ago) link
I am just frustrated with the sheer number of articles, posts, etc. that purport to say what it's like to be Jewish or how "your Jewish friends" are feeling or "Why Jews are *xxxxx* right now" -- there are lots of Jews, and lots of ways Jewish people can feel, and something deep in me rises up in revolt when I see a bulletin that asserts ANYTHING collectively on our behalf
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:10 (five months ago) link
And these articles are always written by Jews! How can any Jewish person who lives in a Jewish community, and who knows the variety even within one Jewish family, think they have the right to speak for all of us?
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:12 (five months ago) link
"Here's what your Jewish friend is going through, but only if your Jewish friend is me, eephus, otherwise you're on your own, maybe ask them," that's the article I would write
What's the saying, "two Jews, three opinions"?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:15 (five months ago) link
eephus deeply deeply OTM
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:30 (five months ago) link
my siblings and I have been discussing getting the check-in message from invariably well-intentioned friends and acquaintances, and being unsure about how to respond.
"how do you feel about everything that's been happening?" well, how much time do you have
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:36 (five months ago) link
I asked my daughter if she knew why we got that email from the school about antisemitism and other derogatory language. Needless to say, imagine some of the extreme self-righteousness that Felicity has observed, only further amplified to heightened high school adolescent levels. My own kid was pretty pissed off and frustrated, because she is one of just a relative few Jews in the school, and she knows if she speaks up about things that make her upset she will be (in her words) "hate-crimed." A lot of people, myself included, have learned as adults when it's best to just say nothing, not for fear of bullying but usually for the sake of comity (or, you know, just because we want to avoid the headache, since we've got other things to deal with). My kid, though ... I feel terrible that she's been put into situations where her *only* option is silence, since to raise her voice from the margins makes her a target for the malicious or ignorant. I really don't know what the answer is.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 25 October 2023 03:08 (five months ago) link
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 02:10 (one hour ago) link
Oh man, I was just ranting about these lol.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 03:28 (five months ago) link
And they keep coming!!!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 03:36 (five months ago) link
I feel terrible that she's been put into situations where her *only* option is silence, since to raise her voice from the margins makes her a target for the malicious or ignorant. I really don't know what the answer is.― Josh in Chicago
― Josh in Chicago
i don't know that there _is_ an answer, at least not an easy one, in situations like that.
i haven't ever experienced anti-semitism and i don't know what it's like to experience it. the situation as you describe in the quoted section though... is one i am familiar with.
for a little while a couple years ago i volunteered talking to people questioning their gender identity. a lot of them were in high school and talked about experiences like the one you describe... they didn't feel safe speaking up and felt bad about it. it's _not their responsibility_ to speak up, though. people's first responsibility is to themselves, is to take care of themselves. it feels shitty to want to speak up and not be able to, but when it's _you_ they're coming for, when you're at risk, remaining silent is not wrong.
and it's a situational thing. silence isn't absolute, speaking up isn't absolute. there are lots of ways to be _visible_, and just being _visible_... i've found that makes a lot of difference. but it is a risk. it's nobody's obligation to take those risks, it's a choice, people who are comfortable doing that, it can be good to do that.
anyway. i don't know how much if any of that can apply to your daughter's situation. hopefully at least a little!
― Kate (rushomancy), Wednesday, 25 October 2023 14:54 (five months ago) link
Not sure where else to put this.
I've refrained from posting for the most part regarding the current situation in Israel/Palestine because nothing I can type seems adequate. Technically I am not Jewish - a long story I've mentioned here before - short version is my Dad was culturally Jewish who became an evangelical christian and I was raised that way, but also we kept kosher on Passover and went to synagogue on some high holidays. This would tend to confuse a kid. I also look Ashkenazi Jew I guess because when I moved to PA in high school, some kids there asked if I was Jewish right away and I said, "Yes," and later they threw pennies at me. I don't believe in shit now.
Anyway, long intro to a dream I had last night in which my wife and I were in upstate NY, let's say like Rockland County, where a Jewish homeland of sorts was located right next to a homeland for Palestinians, where we wanted to go in order to deliver some supplies to help out. To do so, we had to enter through a lot of security in the Jewish area, then we entered a sort of supermarket area where we were buying supplies. The Jews had a bunch of rules about what supplies could be in the shopping cart with other supplies, so when we were trying to pay for them, we were pulled aside into a little room while a rabbi went through our cart and sorted everything.
After we left the supermarket, we were trying to find the entrance to the Palestinian area. I wandered away from my wife up a short hill where there were Jews sitting in a circle, playing acoustic guitars, and singing. I walked past them up the hill to the top and looked down the other side and saw nothing but a forest of trees of the most brilliant gold color - a promised land basically. I was overwhelmed by a powerful feeling of safety and belonging.
I wandered back down the hill to my wife and we tried to find the entrance to the Palestinian area as the dream ended.
I really, really wish the government of Israel weren't doing what they are doing. That's about all I can say.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 15:43 (four months ago) link
Interesting dream. But one thing about it is totally unrealistic - Rockland County is NOT "upstate"!
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 17:18 (four months ago) link
Fair.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 17:22 (four months ago) link
I think it's the southernmost county in NY except for the boroughs.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 20:46 (four months ago) link
that's westchester
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 21:34 (four months ago) link
for ppl like me -- didn't grow up in new york, have only lived in nyc -- anything north of yonkers counts as upstate...
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 21:43 (four months ago) link
yonkers is part of westchester
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 21:48 (four months ago) link
xp actually you're right, the southernmost part of Rockland is slightly north of the southernmost part of Westchester, my bad.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 21:50 (four months ago) link
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, October 31, 2023 4:43 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
My dad grew up in Brooklyn and considered Pennsylvania "the west"
I grew up in West Chester, Pennsylvania, and I constantly had to tell people, no, not Westchester New York, West Chester, Pennsylvania.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:07 (four months ago) link
what about eastchester, you say? well, east chester is a neighborhood in the bronx, while eastchester is a town in westchester county
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:12 (four months ago) link
actually, they're both spelled without the space. good work, everyone
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:14 (four months ago) link
Similarly, Bronxville is NOT in the Bronx.
― steely flan (suzy), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:14 (four months ago) link
West New York, New Jersey
― buzza, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:18 (four months ago) link
Also note that many of the youngest fighters in Hamas grew up as orphans….
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:23 (four months ago) link
I was about to complain about pedantry but then I remembered where I was
― #1 García Fan (H.P), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:30 (four months ago) link
Geez I read that again and realised it might not look too good. TO CLARIFY: ILX, not the Hey Jews thread 😬
― #1 García Fan (H.P), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 22:34 (four months ago) link
I'm from Long Island and have lived there, in NYC, and in the Finger Lakes region. In my head anything north of Westchester is definitely upstate. That said, the Broxville not being in the Bronx (tho it's p damn close) and Eastchester and Eastchester being both places in the bronx and Westchester is confusing as hell. I have been to both because a friend is from the Westchester Eastchester and I love The Bronx.
PKBR I don't know if you know about or have ever been to Moncey but it's in Rockland country and that is kind of a Jewish homeland of sorts.
― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 11:10 (four months ago) link
Eastchester also not even in the east of westchester, it's right in the middle
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 12:38 (four months ago) link
Yeah, I am aware of the heavy Orthodox presence in Rockland. I think my dreaming brain must have used that.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 13:19 (four months ago) link
Not to shift focus away from geo and back to politics, but I've been pretty bummed by the anti Jewish stuff being stirred up all over the place. Anger at Israel always seems to potentiate hatred of Jews. To be fair, it's my fault for clicking on the bait, but ignoring it doesn't mean it's not there. I guess it's always there. My own opinions don't matter one way or another if my synagogue still needs to up security, or my kids don't feel safe at school, or if I'm ever confronted in the street somewhere. Not that I expect that (last thing) to happen, but the fact that I have to even consider it makes me queasy, just as Trump's election made me ponder several "what if?" scenarios.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 13:54 (four months ago) link
It's real, and it's a bummer.
― felicity, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 16:33 (four months ago) link
i recognize that israel isn't supposed to be representative of all judaism, but when i see sentiments expressed here along the lines of wishing israel would cease to exist, it feels a bit more than the usual anger at the Israeli gov't and military. maybe i'm just overly sensitive.
i'm planning the kid's bar mitzvah(!) now and i'll be real, deep in my mind there are thoughts i have about security and safety, even though it's not at a temple, and it's not like it's going to be advertised online or anything. i just want him to be safe thru life with all this bullshit. i don't even want him to hear anything. he's got an irish last name, his mom is jewish, so i suspect he'll hear some bullshit in passing from others in the future who don't know his background.
― omar little, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:19 (four months ago) link
i'm not going to lie, i've been struggling w/ the reconciliation of the following two thoughts
1. anti-semitism is real. fear of mass murder in america is real. fear of being mass murdered for a specific reason in america is real. 2. so far, retribution in america regarding this conflict has been entirely flowing in one direction. thankfully no one has died yet on american soil but the people in our country who are being harassed, driven underground, fired, expelled -- in some cases through the will of extremely powerful people -- are those expressing empathy, sympathy, support etc for palestine
the fear of plausible violence is real, the fear of "what if" is real, and yet i'm also looking at a number of incidents of actualized material damage against people's lives in america, and i'm not seeing many (any?) cases of the person in question being pro-israel. i know a kid at cornell got arrested for threatening to shoot up a hillel there.
is the answer simply that, in the parlance of the day, i need to "hold two thoughts in my head at once"? feelings of danger aren't a competition. i repeat this to myself. and yet i have trouble reconciling all of this w/ the fact that i look at what's happening in america and i see, actually, that the punishment is being handed out swiftly and harshly to, in blunt and crude language, not jews
the thing i've read on this topic that sticks with me is this quote from nan goldin about the arforum editor who was fired because the guy who runs bed bath and beyond made it happen (i think the fact of powerful people leveraging their power is an important distinction here as well):
“I have never lived through a more chilling period,” said Goldin, who is one of the most celebrated living photographers and signed the open letter that called for Palestinian liberation and a cease-fire. “People are being blacklisted. People are losing their jobs.”
honestly, i worry about this a lot more than i worry about my family or my friends being shot or attacked for being jewish. but the fear of being shot or attacked is stressful. so again i guess i return to whether the answer is simply to accept both of these facts, or whether my discomfort w/ the imbalance is real/justified etc
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 19:56 (four months ago) link
so far, retribution in america regarding this conflict has been entirely flowing in one direction
incorrect, my friend
https://missionlocal.org/2023/10/jewish-owned-ice-creamery-smitten-to-reopen-after-being-vandalized-with-pro-palestinian-graffiti/
https://www.politico.com/video/2023/10/31/fbi-director-anti-semitic-threat-reaching-historic-levels-1123918
― Pierre Delecto, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:06 (four months ago) link
I'm sure he'll correct me if I am wrong, but by 'retribution' I think Jordan was thinking of institutional punishments meted out for political positions, as opposed to sporadic and mostly anonymous incidents of threats or vandalism.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:21 (four months ago) link
that is correct, yes. i think it's an important distinction. though it obviously does not make instances of i.e. vandalism less real or that store owner's fears of violence less legitimate. but yes.
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:27 (four months ago) link
am i nervous about the possibility of rising anti-semitic (and islamophobic) tensions in the wake of this crisis? yes. am i annoyed, nay infuriated, by the main character syndrome that influences people in my community to post something like, "would you hide me in your attic?" in the midst of tens of thousands of people being killed by israeli airstrikes? also yes.
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 20:40 (four months ago) link
I haven't posted anything about any of this anywhere because I just really don't know how I feel about so many different aspects of this and find it hard to process, but one thing that has been bugging me, regarding things like that Nan Goldin quote above and cancelling...I mean, generally I've been totally pro cancel culture. Somebody does something really offensive or wrong, I'm fine not hearing from them again. I know that's a huge simplification, but I haven't complained about the "chilling" effect of cancel culture over the last few years, in regards to things like metoo. What I worry about now is what seems like a quick knee-jerk "cancelation" of institutional punishment for people who, in my limited awareness, didn't seem to do anything more extreme than voice criticism of Israeli govt policies and actions.
As a Jew, or jew-ish, person, I've thought a lot about the classic stereotypes of Jewish control of media, of industry, of hollywood etc. The idea that any professor or artist who signs a letter calling for a cease-fire should immediately be fired, and that it is happening, seems crazy to me. I just looked at the letter now and it seems like they made the unforced error of not first stating how horrific Oct 7th was and have amended the letter to include such a statement.
Is it ridiculous to think anti-semites can just gleefully use all of this cancellation as further proof that Jews control everything?
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 21:39 (four months ago) link
I think the refusal of certain anti-semitic tropes to disappear has less to do with anything that may seemingly validate them and more to do with the fact that they are constantly circulated as anti-semitic tropes no matter what anybody says or does.I have seen a handful of people canceled or fired or whatever for statements that went past anti-Israel and creeped awfully close if not right up against anti-Semitic, but fortunately they have been a minority, as far as I can tell. I think there have been a lot more people canceled or fired or shamed or whatever for statements whose supposed failures hinge largely on the difference between the use of "and" and "but," though at the same time, if I was going to voluntarily, publicly wade into such a minefield, I would be careful with my words. I've seen a few very deft but still moving statements that show the difference a little extra care and effort can make, whatever the intent.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:07 (four months ago) link
if I was going to voluntarily, publicly wade into such a minefield, I would be careful with my words. I've seen a few very deft but still moving statements that show the difference a little extra care and effort can make, whatever the intent.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, November 1, 2023 6:07 PM (seventeen minutes ago)
"be intentional and careful with what you say regarding controversial subjects" is good general life advice but tbh... you are spelling out the concept of a chilling effect in this post
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:42 (four months ago) link
at the very least, it shouldn't be in dispute that the punishments so far for a lack of "a little extra care and effort" have been far outsized in relation to the mistakes
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 1 November 2023 22:45 (four months ago) link
I don't mean "be careful" like a threat or anything, just, like, take care to make sure you're not misunderstood, if that's a concern.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:30 (four months ago) link
But yeah, some responses have been pretty disproportionate, I agree.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 2 November 2023 00:55 (four months ago) link
Hey Jews, anti-Semitism, Israel ... it's all one thread, really. I'm not a praying man, but I do think - too much, not enough - and the more I think about the current situation(s), the more I think we're reaching the end of Judaism. It's certainly been creeping in that direction for centuries, like the doomsday clock that's always one minute to midnight. Anyway, just how I'm feeling these days. Just another apocalypse to compartmentalize.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 13:53 (four months ago) link
Nah
― curmudgeon, Friday, 3 November 2023 14:43 (four months ago) link
yeah definitely don't feel that way, idk what would make this crisis, of all the thousands of years worth of crisis, be the final crisis to shut it down.
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 November 2023 14:52 (four months ago) link
why is this moment more likely to "end judaism" than the holocaust or the spanish inquisition?
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 November 2023 14:53 (four months ago) link
I guess I would say because in a sense they did what they set out to do: decimate the global Jewish population. Jews and Judaism exist not despite events like those, but *because* of events like those. The Jewish population is a fraction of what it once was and certainly what it might have been because of the success of those events, one of which happened really not that long ago, in the modern era, in my mother's lifetime. That leaves Jews a minority of a minority, without the voice and certainly without the numbers to reliably stand up against oppression. Which brings us, unfortunately, to Israel.
Israel only exists because of the aforementioned, because Jews were expelled, killed or otherwise ethnically cleansed throughout Europe, Russia, the Middle East, parts of Africa. So to Israel many went, and now Israel is home to a huge percentage of the Jewish population, the fallout being whatever fate befalls Israel befalls a huge number of Jews. I hate what's going on there. It makes me sick to my stomach. But I've not heard many people offer a solution that bodes well for the Jews. (What else is new, right?) A single state solution? I don't see that happening, and it would almost certainly be as bad for the Jewish population there as it has been in the surrounding region, not least after so many years of conflict. A two-state solution? Better, but what does that look like? Would Palestine be allowed all the rights of a sovereign nation? A standing army? Free trade with whomever it wants? The unfettered ability to wage war, as Israel has enjoyed? Anything less would negate the point of being a country.
All that almost preordains further conflict with Israel, as does, needless to say, the status quo, whose opposition is louder and angrier than I have ever seen it. Which leaves the option of the Jews scattering once again, but to where? To all the places that killed or expelled them? En masse to the United States? I don't see that happening, and I don't see any of these things alleviating anti-Semitism at all. In fact, I think it would embolden it, with the Jewish population weakened even more. With history as guide, that path inevitably leads only in one direction.
Now, I'm writing this from the comfort of my home, where I feel safe and surrounded by friends and family. But I don't feel surrounded by Jews, not here, not really anywhere. And when any of us gather in relatively large numbers, I mostly feel surrounded by an overwhelmingly not-Jewish world, some of which wish us dead, but most of whom wouldn't notice if we were gone. We talk about chilling effects? I think that's what we're going to see. Judaism getting quieter and quieter, smaller and smaller, until it might as well be gone entirely. And functionally will be.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:06 (four months ago) link
Bummer, right? I'm not curled up in a ball or anything like that, but the weight of things has been getting to me.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:08 (four months ago) link
my friend there are roughly the same number of Jews in the world now as there were in 1942 (~16M), if not more (upper estimates over 20M)
― Pierre Delecto, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:19 (four months ago) link
I appreciate the reassurance but in the same time span the world population grew by, what, almost six billion?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 November 2023 16:29 (four months ago) link
I'm not really concerned about the survival of Judaism right now, but the situation in Israel/Palestine feels awful and intractable to me and that is definitely causing me a lot of distress.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 3 November 2023 23:23 (four months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buQ1C5RJ2Vk
I rewatch this from time to time when I feel despair
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 12 November 2023 02:28 (four months ago) link
I just saw this Guardian article: 'A new documentary argues some young Jewish Americans – including the directors themselves – have been raised in a system that demands pro-Israel activism'
This is the first I've heard of this film, but they're screening it at various locations (including some virtual screenings they're trying to set up).
― birdistheword, Sunday, 12 November 2023 22:20 (four months ago) link
FWIW, that wasn't my experience, or at least it would be an exaggeration or caricature of it. I did get a fair amount of zionist propaganda, but we also had hebrew school teachers (conservative synagogue) who would question the situation and ask us to consider things like whether it was really possible for Israel to be both a Jewish state and a democracy. This was in the early 90s fwiw, so basically the Rabin years.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 13 November 2023 15:59 (four months ago) link
I watched a stream from 6th and I Synagogue in Dc tonight with a rabbi talking to a Palestinian Israeli member and a Jewish Israeli member of the Israeli based organization Standing Together that is trying to work together to create peace and more. The Palestinian Israeli member had spent time in the US during the Occupy Wall Street era and was inspired a bit by that. The group is on Instagram and Facebook (not to be confused with the newer organization 24/7IDF that's on Facebook, really)
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 02:46 (four months ago) link
(not to be confused with the newer organization Standing Together 24/7 IDF I mean that's on Facebook, really
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 02:47 (four months ago) link
https://www.thecut.com/2023/11/get-me-out-of-the-group-chat.html
― symsymsym, Sunday, 19 November 2023 02:32 (four months ago) link
Yeah I’ve had some uncomfortable interactions with local parents. Not overt, but I was pressured to go to an Israel rally (made an excuse), have had friend requests from parents I’m not really friends with that feel a little aimed at checking what I’m posting (nothing at all on FB), and I got pressed into a WhatsApp group that I wound up leaving because it was just a bunch of look what this professor said and why didn’t our mayor make a pro Israel statement. I know there are probably parents closer to my views in town too, including Jews, I’m just not sure the best way to find them.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 03:36 (four months ago) link
Sorry to hear that man. Navigating social media at this time is tricky enough, but it kind of sucks when you have to deal with peer pressure like that.
FWIW, I switched my profile to a photo of John Lennon's hand flashing a peace sign - no flags or "stand with" or "pro-____" verbiage anywhere, I just wanted something that would pre-emptively show I wasn't for violence but in a way that couldn't be misinterpreted as being pro-Hamas. I may have gotten one "de-friend" after that, but otherwise since then no one's tried to tag me or do any kind of social media stuff with me related to the conflict.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 19 November 2023 04:37 (four months ago) link
A relative who was coming to DC for that Israel rally tagged me and a whole bunch more relatives in his Facebook post, and I just removed the tag.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 19 November 2023 17:21 (four months ago) link
I heard some speculation that a heavy % of the attendees were Christian zionists. IDK if that's based on anything or not.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:12 (four months ago) link
The people I know who went are my fellow Jews fwiw
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:26 (four months ago) link
well, I don't think I know any Christian Zionists personally, so if they went I wouldn't know
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:28 (four months ago) link
My daughter went. She told me there were definitely people like that there, including a couple of speakers with some dubious backgrounds/baggage that made her uncomfortable. But she also apparently met a lot chill, reasonable people, with diverse viewpoints. Mostly Jews, as far as she could tell, though it's not like they were carrying signs. Well, I mean, a lot of them were, lol.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:29 (four months ago) link
FWIW she considered it a march against anti-Semitism, though I did explain to her that was not the specific driver.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 19 November 2023 23:34 (four months ago) link
My co-worker's mom attended as part of a group from her Jewish retirement community in Montgomery County.
― peace, man, Monday, 20 November 2023 12:23 (four months ago) link
This kinda seems more to be a story far more about how algorithmic social media and phone-based text communication seems to be singularly damaging to all human interaction, I’d posit
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Monday, 20 November 2023 17:52 (four months ago) link
I'm just wrestling with the fact that tons of my fellow Jews are talking quite openly about how they feel unsafe, don't feel like they can wear things that display their Jewishness, are discussing taking their mezuzot down, etc. -- and I just can't relate. Sure, there have been demonstrations against the war in Gaza in my city; that doesn't make me feel like somebody's going to beat me up coming out of shul or trash my house because there's a mezuzah on the door. There's a police officer outside our shul for services, which I do not think there should be, and I feel like the presence of the officer is reinforcing for the fear -- "things have gotten so bad we had to have security stationed outside the synagogue" -- but *did* we? Yes, I get that there have been incidents. But they are really rare! Even if less rare than before! I don't worry about my synagogue getting attacked any more than I worry about a student shooting up my kid's school.
So some part of me wants to say this publicly, because I don't think it's great for people to think all American Jews are feeling this sense of direct personal peril. But I also *don't* want to do this, because the people who are scared are people I value, respect, and like, members of my community. I just can't see myself publicly saying anything like this, when it would amount to telling thoe friends, in public, "your authentically held feelings are wrong." I mean, yes, technically, I would only be saying "I don't share those feelings." But there's no way to do that without dismissing them.
Not sure what I'm going for here, just wanted to have a place to say this.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:07 (four months ago) link
I feel you
― symsymsym, Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:12 (four months ago) link
And, like... people ARE feeling free to spout all kinds of antisemitic shit, from Elon Musk on down, and I don't want to act like I think that's OK or not a problem -- it's just that the *kind* of problem it is isn't "I'm worried about my family's physical safety in the middle of the United States of America."
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:16 (four months ago) link
Haven't heard this much from Jews I know, besides my mom deciding to get worried that the so-called Day of Jihad would somehow pose a danger to her on BC Ferries. I wonder if people are getting any abuse for wearing a yarmulke in public, haven't heard any stories but I could imagine it happening.
I went to a work conference last week and kept getting sympathy when I talked about my background or my extremely Jewish name. It felt undeserved - there are a lot of people in the world under a lot more danger and suffering than I am.
― symsymsym, Sunday, 26 November 2023 21:30 (four months ago) link
That's for sure. At the same time, I think a lot of Jews have internalized (like a lot of minorities) a sort of latent threat can feel more or less prominent, depending on the context/trigger. I think the half-life of Trump hasn't helped.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 November 2023 00:59 (four months ago) link
Just went down a super dark rabbit hole of translating comments on an Instagram video of some hassidic Jews dancing (mostly in Russian - maybe from Chechnya, Dagestan, etc?). Definitely no distinction whatsoever made between Judaism and Zionism and some really horrific shit being said. I guess the likelihood of that impacting me is extremely minimal and best just to not go down the rabbit hole.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 27 November 2023 01:05 (four months ago) link
Big moment for the whole religion:
Argentina's President-Elect Javier Milei is converting to Judaism https://t.co/gMddyBbluS pic.twitter.com/yuH7Y0uZD5— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) November 28, 2023
― symsymsym, Tuesday, 28 November 2023 17:07 (four months ago) link
Is it me or does he seem actually mentally unstable?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 18:43 (four months ago) link
mentally unstable like a fox.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 28 November 2023 18:53 (four months ago) link
BF Skinner taught pigeons to walk in figure-8s after an hour or so of simple positive reinforcements. It's not hard to understand that the more Milei is rewarded for his bizarre behavior the more bizarrely he'll behave. Much of Trump's behavior can be explained the same way; he's been rewarded so lavishly it's no wonder he now acts like he's a god on earth.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 19:19 (four months ago) link
Haven't there been at least two GOP congresspeople falsely claiming Judaism or Jewish descent recently (Santos and I don't remember the name of the other one)? Is this some new trend on the right?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 November 2023 19:25 (four months ago) link
this lady? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/02/anna-paulina-luna-jewish-grandfather-nazi
I think Julia Salazar pulled a similar stunt on the left (but can't remember the details)
― symsymsym, Wednesday, 29 November 2023 03:34 (four months ago) link
Much of Trump's behavior can be explained the same way
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 29 November 2023 14:41 (four months ago) link
I just can't bring myself to post on that toxic Israel thread, but I was inspired to post here by something that sarahell posted there:
It is unfortunate imo that a lot of younger American leftists don’t have the most solid grasp of history and I feel like they are actually ignorant of how others interpret some of their terms and slogans.
This morning I saw this WSJ (ugh) opinion piece called "From Which River to Which Sea? College students don’t know, yet they agree with the slogan."
https://archive.ph/1tn2C
Not saying it's some be-all definitive statement, or that the author isn't worse than Hitler, or that the methodology has genocidal blood on its hands, just underscores sarahell's observation.
Anyway, Happy Hannukah!!!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 December 2023 21:50 (three months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQPXGJIN8yQ
― omar little, Thursday, 7 December 2023 22:09 (three months ago) link
unfortunate yes, as there is a lot of things about our society that are unfortunate. but it's a far worse look for adults to read malice into ignorance than it is for kids to be ignorant. if there is widespread ignorance regarding middle east politics and geography isn't that actually most unflattering for those tasked w/ education, rather than those who have failed to be educated? what have older american leftists been up to if young american leftists don't have "the most solid grasp of history" ... perhaps this is illustrative of why the american left is not generally considered a hugely successful contemporary political movement...
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Thursday, 7 December 2023 22:24 (three months ago) link
I think in this case maybe it has something to do with how/where they are taught and who is doing the teaching. I doubt most young people are learning about the Israel/Palestine conflict in school, because I doubt it is taught outside of specialized classes, which means most people are probably learning about it via the internet/social media, and we all know how that often works out.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 December 2023 22:40 (three months ago) link
There's a line from a Robert Christgau Big Country review that's always stuck with me: "Regaled with martial rhythms, I always feel safer knowing exactly what the war's about."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 7 December 2023 22:49 (three months ago) link
but it's a far worse look for adults to read malice into ignorance than it is for kids to be ignorant.
this nicely sums up something I've struggled with putting into words. I was making an argument to a friend where I suggested the intent matters and words and phrases are ever-changing and if "from the river to the sea" means Palestinians and Israeli jews live together in equality and not, you know, "push all Jews into the sea" then I'm willing to take them at their word and further accept that that is the meaning of the phrase. That neatly ignores the fact that sure, there are people for whom it does mean get rid of Jews, and also doesn't wrestle with the full history of the term and the intent from when it was coined (of which I am no expert despite reading at least 2 articles and/or watching youtube videos on the subject). His response was that it if you do accept the history/have the memory that the phrase means Jews out of Palestine, it's a bit much to let progressive leftists get away with ignoring that history of the phrase, especially when that is a group who is usually pretty particular about language.
And I do think he has a point. But I also think that's a different battle? For a different time? I don't know.
― dan selzer, Friday, 8 December 2023 00:22 (three months ago) link
― omar little, Thursday, December 7, 2023 2:09 PM bookmarkflaglink
lol. Happy Cha-noo-ka to all.
― felicity, Friday, 8 December 2023 00:49 (three months ago) link
Chag sameach yall
― symsymsym, Friday, 8 December 2023 00:57 (three months ago) link
(I want to hear how Smokey pronounces that one)
― symsymsym, Friday, 8 December 2023 00:58 (three months ago) link
Latke times is good times in bad times amitite
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 8 December 2023 03:21 (three months ago) link
I mean I believe all of humanity can get behind fried potatoes except maybe paleo ppl and honestly I can’t be bothered with them anyway
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 8 December 2023 03:22 (three months ago) link
Wife made a batch with kosher dill pickle sandwich stackers mixed in.
― dan selzer, Friday, 8 December 2023 03:57 (three months ago) link
Oh that’s a delicious sounding hack!
― mom tossed in kimchee (quincie), Friday, 8 December 2023 05:49 (three months ago) link
Just took a family trip to a couple of cities in Europe, with plenty of illuminating Jew stuff. Of course Amsterdam has the Anne Frank house, and Berlin is like a living history museum (despite being mostly long-razed sites of atrocities), but Prague was the most eye-opening. We took a tour of the Jewish neighborhood, which has one of the (or maybe the?) oldest intact (and still used) synagogues in Europe, from the 13th century, whose survival may have simply been a matter of good timing/fortune. If I understood our guide correctly, the Jews in Prague were modestly religious and very assimilated, and while anti-Semitism existed, it wasn't quite as full throated as it was elsewhere, so when the Nazis took over (and took away the Jews, who were of course Jewish enough) the locals sort of just held onto all the homes, synagogues, and possessions. To what purpose, I don't really know, but everything from 300 torahs to tons of religious items were catalogued and stored, discovered after the war, left untouched by the Soviets and then in many cases restored over time despite the near absence of Jews (only some 1500 remain in Prague). Pretty remarkable.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 January 2024 19:37 (two months ago) link
That synagogue is the one with the Golem of Prague in the attic.
― Hello I'm shitty gatsworth (aldo), Thursday, 4 January 2024 22:05 (two months ago) link
would you call the experience of visiting Prague "good"? Not that I've been to Europe yet in my life but I'm pretty sure I would be too disquieted by the knowledge of how many Jews aren't there anymore to have a good time. Not sure why I assume that about Prague more so than Berlin, possibly just racist against Bohemians.
― G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Thursday, 4 January 2024 23:15 (two months ago) link
Resting place of Rabbi Loew, creator of said golem. Iirc his grave was covered with slips of papers featuring requests for the golem. In the same trip I also visited krakow and saw its Jewish quarter. It didn’t have as much luck I think.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 4 January 2024 23:17 (two months ago) link
xpost Prague was great. It's a beautiful city, left intact after WWII, and felt very welcoming. For example, I believe Czechia has accepted more Ukrainian refugees than any other country, some 200,000+, and has been very considerate of them; they tried to limit people from lighting off too many fireworks on NYE with them in mind (plus in light of the mass shooting a couple of weeks ago). Also, as far as Jew-stuff goes, our guide made a point of noting that Prague might be the only place in the EU, if not the whole of Europe, where you occasionally still see an Israeli flag being flown in solidarity. Our guide also said that some of the few Jews left there have been rediscovering their faith; being secular/non-religious has been I guess a tradition in Czechia going back to the 1800s, nominal Jew and nominal Christian alike, but younger generations of Jews have been embracing old traditions.
The most disquieting moment of the entire trip was back in Berlin, when we gathered at the meeting point for our walking tour of the former east (where we were staying) in time to hear one of the guides shouting "anyone here for the concentration camps stand over there, people for the concentration camps, over there!!"
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 January 2024 23:54 (two months ago) link
My most disquieting moment of this old family trip? After Krakow and a visit to Auschwitz taking a sleeper train to Prague only to be woken up on the middle of the night by people banging on doors and shouting in polish. I think. We were at the border.
― dan selzer, Friday, 5 January 2024 00:44 (two months ago) link
For example, I believe Czechia has accepted more Ukrainian refugees than any other country, some 200,000+, and has been very considerate of them
Well yes because invasion by Russia is something within living memory for them and a sense of solidarity with its fellow victims is strong. Sadly though otoh current govt got to power partly over fearmongering related to the syrian refugee crisis. So the welcoming part is selective, as in most places.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 5 January 2024 10:41 (two months ago) link
Well yes because invasion by Russia is something within living memory for them and a sense of solidarity with its fellow victims is strong.
Slight digression here, but this hasn't really been apparent in Slovakia in the same way (and maybe a more mixed picture in Bulgaria, Hungary, and parts of East Germany)
― anvil, Friday, 5 January 2024 11:09 (two months ago) link
Which is kind of a topic all to itself but attitudes to Russia (and to Ukraine) in formerly occupied or invaded states can be fairly varied
― anvil, Friday, 5 January 2024 11:13 (two months ago) link
Our guide also said that some of the few Jews left there have been rediscovering their faith; being secular/non-religious has been I guess a tradition in Czechia going back to the 1800s, nominal Jew and nominal Christian alike, but younger generations of Jews have been embracing old traditions.
I think I read somewhere it's the least religious country in Europe? The beer is ludicrously cheap in Prague, if you're at all a boozehound.
― Little Billy Love (Tom D.), Friday, 5 January 2024 11:29 (two months ago) link
Yeah, it's pretty cheap. I think the country also drinks more beer than any other country in Europe. Per a quick google:
The Czech Republic remains the leader in per capita beer drinking for the 29th year. In 2021, the average Czech drank more than 184 liters of beer.
I think that stems in part not just because it's cheap, but also because it's pretty basic. Low-alcohol pilsners and lagers and the like. But for sure refreshing and ubiquitous!
Re: religion, yeah, I think our guide told us that over 90% of young people there (under 30) don't identify with any religion, and the country as a whole might be hovering around 70% athiest. I should note, per my anecdotes, that our guide pointed out how that nonreligious tradition hasn't negated anti-Semitism through the ages, but that it was nonetheless one of many mitigating factors in the treatment and tolerance of Jews over the centuries. Some interesting deets here (including the fact that the Jews in Bohemia had a historically high rate of intermarriage, near 50%):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust_in_Bohemia_and_Moravia
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 January 2024 12:03 (two months ago) link
think that stems in part not just because it's cheap, but also because it's pretty basic. Low-alcohol pilsners and lagers and the like. But for sure refreshing and ubiquitous!
These are some of the greatest beers on the planet and far superior to the pastry stout monstrosities being whipped up in the states.
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Friday, 5 January 2024 12:17 (two months ago) link
Let alone the default lagers people drink here.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 January 2024 12:23 (two months ago) link
― G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Thursday, 4 January 2024 23:15 (yesterday) link
I found visiting Berlin oddly therapeutic, even though my German family left way way before the holocaust. We also only did one Jewish-related thing (I don't even remember exactly what it was but some kind of old synagogue that had been turned into a museum). I was way more interested in the East Berlin cold war stuff tbh.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 5 January 2024 16:37 (two months ago) link
My wife lived in Berlin for part of the 80s, as a preteen, and this was the first time she had been back since the wall fell. We didn't have much time, so spent it all in the east side, which was less familiar/more interesting to her. She and her mom used to cross at Checkpoint Charlie to go shopping in the East.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 January 2024 17:02 (two months ago) link
okay what's this tunnel thing in Brooklyn? I'm not understanding
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 18:02 (two months ago) link
from my understanding...chabad was crowded, some dudes decided to tear down a wall to connect to other building. Rival chabad dudes argue about filling the holes. Somebody left a dirty mattress somewhere. The internet assumes jews are killing christian babies. whats new.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 18:08 (two months ago) link
https://gothamist.com/news/discovery-of-secret-tunnel-beneath-chabad-hq-in-crown-heights-leads-to-brawl-12-arrests
seems like it's a more fundamentalist dingdongs wanting access to holy places by any means necessary (these are the MESSIAH IS COMING sticker people) and the folks people who control and manage the building and lead the chabad not wanting dangerous alterations made to the * checks notes * literal foundation of their holy buildings
― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 10 January 2024 18:18 (two months ago) link
"HEY ASIANS - WTF IS UP WITH THESE WEIRD ASIAN THINGS THE OTHER ASIANS ARE DOING...I can't figure it out"
Jewish ILXORs are not animals in a zoo and we don't keep tabs on each other.
smdh
― felicity, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 21:48 (two months ago) link
I'm sorry, I didn't intend to come off like that! I came here to see if it was already being discussed, and when it wasn't, I made my query
The Guardian article said something like 'No motive for the tunnel was revealed' so I was just curious if anyone knew anything, that's all
― Andy the Grasshopper, Wednesday, 10 January 2024 22:49 (two months ago) link
k
I am very honored to be giving the State of World Jewry address February 25th @92ndStreetY. More information and tickets here:https://t.co/UY19QKj96O— Bari Weiss (@bariweiss) January 9, 2024
― mookieproof, Thursday, 11 January 2024 02:57 (two months ago) link
A shanda for the goyim
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 11 January 2024 04:54 (two months ago) link
I just want to push back on this. Yes, I am not a Lubavitcher, but being Jewish I am more equipped than the average American to make sense of what's going on at 770 Eastern Parkway, and so I don't mind being asked in this space.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 11 January 2024 04:56 (two months ago) link
Yes I can understand being defensive in these particularly hot times, but it did seem like an innocent question (that I was interested in too). Thank you for your generosity eephus
― H.P, Thursday, 11 January 2024 05:31 (two months ago) link
Well I do. We can disagree. It's extremely obnoxious to address this topic to a thread called this.
I am also Asian and it's a common microaggression to get questions like "Where are you from? No really, like originally?" that white looking Americans don't get.
I look forward to this thread beung revived since it's usually a place to celebrate Jewishness or share empathy.
It's ok to be curious. But I also want to ask people to think before they try to start these kinds of "discussions."
― felicity, Thursday, 11 January 2024 05:35 (two months ago) link
Felt innocent enough to me. This is a topic to discuss things about “Jews” and this event is a major news. I didn’t see it as somebody expecting only Jews would have some insight. Despite being a secular Jew in queens I don’t have any special insight into Chabad Jews in Brooklyn but I felt comfortable answering from what I read in the news. Wasn’t clear to me that the writer wasn’t Jewish, didn’t think about it.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 11 January 2024 12:54 (two months ago) link
As I said we can disagree. It was more of a NYC question than anything.
You're going to have a different perspective and context than me and that's fine.
― felicity, Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:17 (two months ago) link
And thank you for saying sorry, Andy the Grasshopper.
― felicity, Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:26 (two months ago) link
I saw you saying we can disagree. I just wanted to do so. Considering this is nation-wide news and involves insane anti-semitic conspiracy theorying, I don't think it's a NYC question.
― dan selzer, Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:48 (two months ago) link
... worldwide.
― Little Billy Love (Tom D.), Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:49 (two months ago) link
The bigots are having a field day with this tunnel story. I am glad you answered the way you did.
― felicity, Thursday, 11 January 2024 14:59 (two months ago) link
https://podcasts.apple.com/ro/podcast/marilynne-robinson-on-biblical-beauty-human-evil-and/id1548604447?i=1000648054080
I thought some of you guys might appreciate this right now (despite the headline, most of it isn't directly about Israel). Very much Christian author argues that the Old Testament is much more full of mercy, forgiveness and grace than it is given credit for, and made kind of a lightbulb go on for me about it that my views of Judaism have sometimes been colored by self-serving Christian spin on Judaism (wherein Christianity sets it self up as the merciful new religion and Jesus as the merciful new version of God in contrast to the more vengeful and primitive old one)
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Sunday, 24 March 2024 18:02 (five days ago) link
Purim Sameach!!
― X-Prince Protégé (sonnyboy), Sunday, 24 March 2024 18:05 (five days ago) link
Thanks for recommending that episode. I think my friend who is an Anglican minister (and whose kids are Jewish) might have sent me that as well.
And yes, Chag Sameach!
― felicity, Sunday, 24 March 2024 22:53 (five days ago) link
Honestly never under-estimate what Christians don't understand about Judaism. Christians think it's mostly Christianity minus believing that Jesus was the Messiah. They don't know that there's no Jewish hell or that it's not evangelical (and in fact discourages conversion) and lots of other things. I can speak for Christians, I feel comfortable with that. :D
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 24 March 2024 23:37 (five days ago) link
So apparently what I'm describing was once (like 1800 years ago) called Marcionism, but at least officially has been mostly rejected by various Christian sects. I swear I have heard that sort of view expressed before though. Not really thinking of the average Christian so much though.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 25 March 2024 00:29 (four days ago) link
I mean I was always drawn to the stories of mercy in the Torah - the angel sparing Isaac from sacrifice, Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gommorah, the covenant after the flood. It's not like I grew up thinking God in the Torah was not merciful, but I feel like I have heard it described that way in popular culture, literary analysis, and probably theological arguments as well.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 25 March 2024 00:31 (four days ago) link