Young Money! Labour Leadership Contest 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTF6N7EWzOA

Likely to be funnier than the General Election but less fun if you know what I mean.

Your runners and riders:

Miliband, D 5/6
Johnson 8/1
Miliband, E 10/1
Balls 14/1
Burnham 16/1
Darling 18/1
Harperson amirite 20/1
Mandy 25/1
Cruddas 33/1
Sir Alan Sugar 200/1

The only UK top 40 with the word "Johnson" in, sadly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts-NtP-euKI

lol mandy

wouldn't put it past him.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/10/article-1276661-09841FA8000005DC-123_308x104.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_h7CJteTPowo/SqXBB89NbiI/AAAAAAAAMbk/vbFPhtXbjkk/s400/embarrasing+miliband+banana.jpg

Never gets old, imo.

Works very well with your screen name, onimo! Mierda defensa indeed, Mr Balls.

I'd vote for Balls for that pic.

What's Ken Livingstone doing these days? Are there any circumstances where he could wind up a contender?

these are crazy crazy crazy crazy nights, so in a way all bets are off. but i think not: he's backing ed balls.

doesn't the PM have to be a member of one of the houses of parliament?

lol o yeah

Edward Short's still alive and in the House of Lords, he could probably do a job.

David Miliband just "accidentally" referred to himself as a candidate.

Shepherd, Reyes, Ford, Miliband.

LOL.

http://www.beatlesource.com/bs/scans/odds/balls3.jpg

what the hell is miliband's "banana moment"?

like, he was pictured holding a banana and looking a bit of a div?

is that it?

Tory bloggers went hard on it though, it truly was Britain's Pastor Wright moment.

y. pretty damning.

this isn't even a thing, d-mil's the clear favourite

He's at least *recognized* in America as that nebbish that Hillary Clinton MILF-flirts with.

http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2010/05/why-david-miliband-would-want-brother-ed-to-stand-for-leader/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ft%2Fwestminster+%28Westminster+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Reader

I was thinking for ages that the most important thing was for Labour to reconnect with core supporters and while it's still hugely important it doesn't feel like they're as disconnected as I initially though, given the election result.

Working out AND ARTICULATING what the party stands for and how they're going to distance themself from the previous government still massively important, same as ideas and fresh policies given there isn't really any money to spend any more. David Miliband and Ed Balls both feel like variations on same-old-same-old, Blair's boy vs Brown's mate. But it doesn't really feel like there's much talent there. Suppose that's what happens when you only promote yes-men for a decade.

Dunno, D Miliband still feels the most statesmanlike though. Foreign Secretary is good for that, and distances yourself from the domestic fuckups of the government.

I think they're probably at least that disconnected, tbh, just not as disconnected as the alternatives

I mean, you wouldn't want any one of them in charge of your housing application tbh.

http://gawker.com/5535848/britains-next-prime-minister-maybe-johnson-vs-balls/gallery/

^^ important commentary

i agree w. matt re "reconnecting". they seem to be p well connected and i find the idea that alan johnson is more authentic/relevant because he used to be a postman a bit patronizing. if there was something exceptional about him, fine, but... there isn't. he's just some guy. unison is apparently backing ed balls, but that whole charlie whelan vibe has been damaging to labour imo, and ed balls is no closer in background to the average labour voter than the millis. at least they grew up in a marxist home.

it'd be funny to see harman going up against her cousin david cameron.

^^^another reason it would never work for Harman. Inherited privilege always seems to cut women down at the last hurdle, if up against a man with the same privileges.

The Postman Alan thing is only good for PMQ zings. I think Ed Balls would be a big, big mistake.

lol max breaking it down for the u.s. audience

(one of) ed milliband's problem is he wrote the current manifesto

"Ed, like his brother David, is the son of famous Marxist Ralph Miliband"

He's been cribbing off the Britishers/expats for long enough to communicate the system over here without doing that smug but wrong thing.

Well, we'll know James Murdoch is really rolling out the Fox model if the biggest bloviators on Sky start getting creeped out by SOCIALISM.

(one of) ed milliband's problem is he wrote the current manifesto

― caek, Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:19 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

i think the current feeling is that labour actually did ok in this election, "considering". i didn't read the manifesto, but ne way these things are surely guided by "other people" too aka mandy.

i just wrote that so i could use the headline 'johnson vs. balls'

Chancellor Alistair Campbell nicknamed him "brains," due to his "brains."

psst alaastair was never the chancellor (or indeed any sort of elected politician)

thinking about the candidates for the leadership does make me reassured that campbell and mandelson will be the éminences grises regardless, though

haha *alastair

would rather read max on this hung parliament than nick robinson

would rather hear more from adam boulton than either of them tho. max, boulton's crazy blow up yesterday seems gawker-friendly. go big on it, i say.

think the johnson vs balls jokes need to combine with the "hung parliament" gags for the next post

word x2

and the fact that they're all dicks

yeah i wanted to do boultons thing but i figured more people would click on a gallery, especially if "balls vs. johnson" was in the headline

you guys with your clicks

campbell deserves to be better known, internationally. he's our rahm-e? gawker readers will all have seen 'in the loop' right?

Boulton is like the anti-Chris Matthews, too.

btw my previous posts on british politics have been picked up by famous british news-paper "the telegraph"

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/melissawhitworth/100037449/how-the-yanks-view-the-british-election-campaign/

Boulton clearly angling himself as the O'Reilly/Beck of Sky's new Fox-ish lurch

max u shd do the boulton episode. convergence with various fox psychos to show common ground with americans.

haha i don't think it was nearly that deliberate xp. lack of sleep and fantasy of tory restoration dying in front of him....

here's nowhere near as good as the fox guys. the bottom lip looked very wobbly yesterday for a start.

(and not in a glen beck crocodile tears way)

He's also married to Anji Hunter, who was Tony Blair's fixer for quite some time.

not saying he's any good, but he's got that confidence in being unabashedly partisan.

maybe ongoing fox-slant of sky news - eg kay burley - a good angle?

posted this on the wrong thread, but just watch alan johnson do a live interview. i don't know much about his politics tbh, but he a likable mother fucker. e milliband is perhaps a little bit cerebral.

that's what i'd like to see xp....more broadly it wd dispel the notion that tv news has been a naturally impartial thing in the uk

BBC guy: "Your agent says you should run"
Alan Johnson: "Thank god someone likes me"

he's not quite boris johnson witty, but he's pretty good.

Alan Johnson possibly a better right-hand man than a leader. Still, people are crying out for politicians who are recognisable human beings so Labour should have made more of him.

e milliband is perhaps a little bit cerebral.

― caek, Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

i think both millis have senses of humour, tho i guess for some ppl (not on ilx obv) im "a little bit cerebral" myself

Cameron vs Miliband vs Clegg is a little

http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/8000/8598_pic00067_copy.jpg

imo

"Done nothing of worth with it" is a little harsh max!!

my readers deserve a heavily simplified hyperbolic version of the truth

Miliband can't be Prime Minister without telling the Great British Public exactly what it is on top of his lip.

Obv. the British electorate will never accept a leader who isn't a nice middle class boy with all his own (brown) hair, so that rules Johnson out (on the first count anyway)

"done nothing of worth with it" massively, tragically otm

they did some good stuff around 1997-1999 iirc.

they did some good stuff around 1997-1999 iirc.

um they stuck to tory spending plans around 197-1999!!ONE!!

brit electorate has accepted an woman and john majors so i disagree with tom there. surely the miliband household was "cosmopolitan declasse intellectual" rather than middle-class ne way.

thinking minimum wage and kosovo

also tuition fees, that was p sweet

fine by me

just another gift to the "lending people money" industry imo

well, possibly, but "nothing worthwhile" is ridic (i know max knows this, not having a go at that article)

said it before, but I can't much place for nuance and reasonableness in light of the massive betrayal of the last 13 years

brit electorate has accepted an woman and john majors so i disagree with tom there

Well tjat was a joke really but, whatever his background, John Major never exactly came across as working class, did he?

"betrayal" suggests you didn't look very closely at the 1997 manifesto.

stop having a go at my blog

not a betrayal of what was promised in the manifesto, I'm thinking of the destruction of the Labour party's history in a manner that hysterical Fabians would've called "entryist" in the 1980s.

your blog lacks nuance

I accept that there are people who believe this is the best of all possible Labour parties in the 21st century tho.

imo NV would be welcome in many countries where there are Labour parties, we need more well-directed spleen venting rage over here for a start, i'm getting kinda tired being the only one.

HH ruled herself out in a weird convoluted kind of way. basically like no-one dies in "lost" unless you see them actually die, unless they categorically deny it, they havent denied it, and she didn't.

― Greatest contributor: (history mayne), Monday, May 10, 2010 10:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

CAZALLED THAT SHIT

CAZALS FOR YOU

http://www.highsnobiety.com/uploads/pics/swagger_cazal_2-01.jpg

I like that Young Money song called "Roger That", it's a double entendre.

max, boulton's crazy blow up yesterday seems gawker-friendly. go big on it, i say.

― caek, Tuesday, May 11, 2010 12:29 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

apparently it made the daily show

Then maybe he can ask Gawker TV to run the footage.

Alan Johnson reminds me of an East End gangland boss who runs a boxing club, idk why

brit electorate has accepted an woman and john majors so i disagree with tom there

bit different in the pre-Blair days. you could be "cosmetically challenged" back then and it meant you were taken seriously.

blueski, he is channeling Phil Davis like an eternal mod, is why.

gawker.tv ran it last night bros

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gifjohnson rules himself out! http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

///

did any of the possible candidates for this oppose the iraq war?

Jon Cruddas: 'I made a mistake by voting for the war in Iraq'.

so that'd be no.

but tbh the "anti-war" "left" has been such a howlingly awful collection of twats that this isn't exercising me too much/as much as mebbe it should.

Nice to know how you feel about Robin Cook.

Sorry ignore me, I'm tired and irritated.

robin cook's beatification was bullshit though

oh i'd forgotten cook. yes, maybe he should stand, what was i thinking?

Um, why? Nice to have substance rather than cries of bullshit imo. xpost

a couple of reasons: the stop the war crowd who lionised him after his death were the same people outraged when he was foreign secretary authorising the bombing of kosovo. i think he called both wars right in the end, but his biggest fans don't agree and are being wilfully blind to his overall record. also, remember the ethical foreign policy and not selling weapons to countries using them for internal repression? the people of east timor don't. i'm not saying he's evil, just overrated.

I always forget that I need to run a translation filter on history mayne's posts, so that "howlingly awful collection of twats" mean "some of them were overrated and disappointed me on some issues".

Maybe username change to hyperbole mayne?

a superpower periodically displaying its capacity for violence is to be expected, a former superpower with delusions of grandeur conflating its interests with the same is endlessly disgraced

i'm not sure how the miliband generation are to be trusted when, even disgregarding ethics, ~none~ could foresee that it would be a fucking catastrophe and a chance to make a name for themselves

the antiwar left was full of chancers and cunts rly

still not as bad as the liberal interventionist nudniks

So far:

Not Standing

Hain
Harman
Johnson -> supporting D Milliband

Standing

Ed Milliband
David Milliband
Andy Burnham

Undecided

Cruddas

Who else?

Balls

anything prevent blair coming back in? apart from wards against evil, like?

Would be like working for min wage, wearing a nametag for him at this point.

that's where he should be, tbh

Blair is currently sitting on top of a big pile of money while lecturing Israel and Palestine on the merits of not killing each other. Why on earth would he go back?

Also he's not an MP any more. Is Brown staying on in his seat or are the people of Kirkaldy going to get the fastest by-election ever?

Staying AFAIK.

At this writing, still staying on. Does Brown strike anyone as the type who'd serve as the constituency MP on the principle of being elected to do it?

many xposts

re why didn't the younger generation didn't oppose the war:

"the grim reality of party politics in action" vs "they lacked the power of independent thought" vs "they were culpably naive"

tracer, the anti-war left i meant is really the extra-parliamentary StWC/SWP/respect brigade

the soundest argument against the war was a conservative one (as made by robin cook), and i don't think the war was just "a superpower periodically displaying its capacity for violence"; i.e. im less anti-war now than then, but still think we shouldn't have invaded

within the labour party there wasn't much intelligent opposition, and i don't think robin cook was an awful twat.

re why didn't the younger generation didn't oppose the war:

"the grim reality of party politics in action" vs "they lacked the power of independent thought" vs "they were culpably naive"

none of them believed it was justifiable?

lol labour, lol britain

i'd say that comes before "naive": it's not a matter of abstract justification, the iraq situation preceded them coming into power, etc. but it was naive to think that you could solve the problem with an invasion, naive not to ask the big "what next?" questions.

tracer, the anti-war left i meant is really the extra-parliamentary StWC/SWP/respect brigade

and therefore not rly relevant here, but yeah terrible people

i don't think the war was just "a superpower periodically displaying its capacity for violence"

no it's an extremely reductive ethology and i'm not sure anyone thinks it was ~just~ about that

the lack of sense to the whole enterprise is the most salient feature in retrospect, but great powers do this shit from time to time

the uk enabling it was the living end tho

the correct response to an invasion of iraq at the time wasn't 'what next' it was 'what?!!'

getting as far in your thinking as 'what next' was already a serious ethical/moral/'dickhead never again to be voted for' breakdown.

don't se why anyone would cry for new labour, even if the alternatives are shit. sometimes it's good enough to be any kind of alternative.

if this triggers some kind of Labour repositioning I agree. At the moment I think we're gonna get a remix of Blairism plus government by Nazgul so I'm not seeing many bright sides.

getting as far in your thinking as 'what next' was already a serious ethical/moral/'dickhead never again to be voted for' breakdown.

well, i wouldn't go that far at all, but i didn't vote for 'em afterwards

'Nazgul' is a p good description of the New Lab heads left imo

This is the moment where you always kinda hope they'll push left-ish and make some clear distinctions from the other 2 parties tho. Feeling shd last about 4 weeks.

the coalition negotiations will hopefully emerge in greater detail but this shit about not wanting to give up id cards is kinda depressing if the milibands/balls types are insistent on even the shittest and costliest dregs of the nulab program

srsly? jesus fucking bastard christ

Yeah, it makes me absolutely fucking furious with them.

was gonna do an ID card gag when I was moaning about the crucial non-differences between Labour and LD aspirations but this is the most disspiriting asinine wankery I can imagine. They deserve to be in opposition for fucking eternity

Is it more about not wanting to do an about-face, albeit one that would be popular, than anything else?

christ on a bike

i mean, it may in the end be better for the country that labour did not go into coalition with the lib dems. we'll see. but shit like ID cards is exactly what got leftish people to vote lib dem in the first place. jesus.

Every one of the Lib Dem negotiators gave an individual report back of their meeting with Harriet Harman, Lord Mandelson, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and Lord Adonis, and they each reached the same conclusion: that the Labour team were uninterested, with no movement on ID cards, the third runway at Heathrow, or increasing the proportion of renewable energy from 15% to 40%.

this would maybe have been acceptable if they forced the libdems into confidence & supply but now it's created this fucking abortion it looks kinda unforgiveable that they didn't even ~try~

i'm assuming that they thought a weak lib-lab govt would damage them in the long run and were just trying to make the lib dems appear to have chosen the tories and brand themselves as the only "progressive" party. pretty sure mandelson, balls etc aren't so wedded to principal that they wouldn't have given up id cards if they thought they could really carry on in power.

wrong thread but yeah otm

apparently harman is not running

wonder if it'll be a straight balls vs d-mil fight

i'm assuming that they thought a weak lib-lab govt would damage them in the long run and were just trying to make the lib dems appear to have chosen the tories and brand themselves as the only "progressive" party. pretty sure mandelson, balls etc aren't so wedded to principal that they wouldn't have given up id cards if they thought they could really carry on in power.

that wd be the most favourable light, then that it was reflexive (and unreflective) tribalism, then that they actually srsly give a fuck about id cards etc

hopefully it will become clearer

I'm going to stop stanning for the LDs at some point, but yeah, the deal Labour was offering was pretty much "so this is our manifesto, whaddya reckon?"

I think the most charitable interpretation is this may have been a deliberately poor offer just to be seen to be negotiating, which they hoped would help the LDs extract leftwards concessions from the conservatives (and make sure the labour didn't remain in govt. which, aside from G Brown there didn't seem to be much appetite for).

This is probably delusional though.

can't quite believe there was no appetite for clawing on to power

there evidently was, and if they somehow got AV through they could have renewed the coalition with a clear majority even allowing for a conservative backlash

all very fucking tenuous but the stuff from mandelson/campbell etc after brown's resignation shows there probably was some serious consideration, though they decided to give clegg and osborne the chance to kill each other

hopefully they will be proven right

there probably was some serious consideration, though they decided to give clegg and osborne the chance to kill each other

yeah, that's my impression, and given that decision + the maths + the content of the manifestos + the public statements of the party leaders before the election, i don't really see how the outcome could have been any different, or why people are so furious with the LDs.

Yeah I am still basically in "this better be good" mode about this situation.

Because they're in bed with the Tories?

xpost

I mean Clegg made his position fairly clear all along but I think people are having to actually look at Lib Dems actually make nice with Tories now and realising what a bad taste it leaves, and it's also kind of hit home just how easy it would be for the Lib Dems to fuck this up or properly sell out.

yeah, i get the visceral reaction. but other than the marginal issue of C&S vs. coalition, it's delusional to think anyone (from any of the parties) had an alternative (with the possible exception of both labour and the LDs committing electoral suicide, rather than just one of them).

i hate that whole "you are not cynical enough/you are not living in the real world" thing in general, but this time it's my attitude.

C&S had upsides for the LD: keep the tories at arms length, etc. But they'd still be responsible for Cameron getting in. May as well get something out of it for the lols while you forced to eat shit.

Think there are also a bunch of people who nervously voted Lib Dem for the first time who have this power fantasy of being sort of psyched up to retributively destroy the LDs in the next election if they fail to live up to their expectations

Yeah, they've lost the twitterverse.

caek is right in that clegg said during the campaign that the largest party had the chance to try to form a govt, so it isn't a betrayal in the sense of outright mendacity

however i'm not sure the difference between enabling tory minority govt and this is quite so marginal

i think in terms of (disastrous) electoral consequences for the LDs it makes no difference.

i guess the question then is, are the policies of the government improved (or do the tories fuck fewer things up because they're in power for less time) if the LDs are in the coalition or if there is just a con minority govt? not obvious to me.

the tories fuck fewer things up because they're in power for less time (and have less coercive power w/ lib dems whilst there)

i think in terms of (disastrous) electoral consequences for the LDs it makes no difference.

not at all sure about this, abstaining on a few key votes and holding hands w/ cameron in front of no 10 give very different impressions

Fixed term parliament is the worst thing about it.

Genuinely the behaviour of a party, that once in Number 10, shows just the sense of entitlement we all dreaded.

WRONG THREAD

yvette cooper rules self out

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/5/12/1273653373471/Gordon-Brown-and-family-l-001.jpg

sky news?

know thine enemy

Maybe they were running a sweepstake on when exactly Roger Boulton would get an aneurism.

Steve Richards, from the Independent newspaper, tells the BBC he understands that Alan Johnson would have run for the Labour leadership if a "rainbow coalition" between his party, the Lib Dems and other smaller parties like the nationalists could have been formed.

^^^ up to something

iiiiiinteresting...

needs a catchy name, what about the Social Democratic Party or something?

Someone should start a party called 'Old Labour' tbh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Labour_Party_(UK)

The Socialist Labour Party ran 24 candidates in the 2010 general election, who received a total of 7,196 votes, 0.0% of the UK national vote. All lost their deposits.

Imagine Alan Johnson as Labour leader, the right wing press would be all LOL Postman Pat

the right wing press

is there any other kind? for a while labour can stop giving all that much of a fuck about the press because they can't win.

Don't see much mileage in The Sun laughing at a dude for being working class tbh

is there any other kind?

it's called the internet

As opposed to "LOL Grocer's Daughter" or "LOL Garden Gnome Seller"? Didn't really hurt their careers much.

Don't see much mileage in The Sun laughing at a dude for being working class tbh

You reckon?

They'd go for him on union boss grounds

Ah, well spotted!

He doesn't really live up to the caricature though, so I don't think that would stick

Miliband's Dad Was Red

Alan Johnson's Rainbow Alliance was a minor 70s Prog band iirc

Jon Cruddas "actively considering standing" according to the BBC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JckEDzH9igc

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif david miliband is standing http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

Who are Compass expected to support (if anyone?)

Someone that gives them direction.

A magnetic perso...oh, let's ot start this.

1.02pm: The Labour blog LabourList has polled its readers on who they want to see as the party's next leader. The results were as follows:

David Miliband: 27.7%

Ed Miliband: 16%

Jon Cruddas: 11.1%

Ed Balls polled: 7.2%

John McDonnell: 6.7%*

Harriet Harman: 4.6%

*McDonnell didn't feature on the original list of options but received a significant number of write-in votes

McDonnell would be great, also total suicide.

Corbyn may as well run if McDonnell's running!

No Andy Burnham? Anyone who can piss David Gower off's ok by me.

It's depressing looking at the bios of all the candidates, and it chimes quite nicely with the job interviews I conducting for interns at the moment. Not a scientist or engineer among them, PPE, Economics or English. Not a proper day's work among them, all started in media, MPs offices or as Union wonks. Depressing, I know it is the way of the world but it does really seem that those that can't, go into politics; like dullard third sons of the aristocracy and the clergy.

Or, more likely, those that can stick the day-to-day filthiness of politics, tbf.

PPE and a lifelong interest in politics is of course useless training for someone who has to run an economy/lead a society compared to, say, physics.

Not useless training for politics but maybe not the best training for running a government department.

on engineers vs english grads, im p sure who i'd rather bro down with

i dont meet many left-wing/personable/possessing-social-skills science types, and at uni they were no fun at all, but on ilx some of yall seem to be ok

i don't like the PPE production line at all btw...

basically we need more modern history dudes running things

Not useless training for politics but maybe not the best training for running a government department.

― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, May 13, 2010 3:13 PM (33 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

we have technocrat civil servants to run govt. departments.

the regard people give scientists in areas outside their expertise, just because they apparently understand "evidence" and can do back of the envelope calculations, is pretty much laughable.

all started in media, MPs offices or as Union wonks

but gosborne "briefly worked at selfridges"!

(i mean, he actually DID go into politics b/c he couldn't do anything else, even journalism)

Stan for Andrew Adonis then. (I quite Like him, at least in his transport secretary roll, he seemed to be one of the few people in that job to actually roll his sleeves up and try and understand the problems rather than see it as a waiting room for a better Job).

xposts

I think it takes a balance. I want different styles of critical thinking, different intellectual nimbleness around the cabinet table, different perspectives and life experiences.

Maybe the new Lords should be 1000 randomly chosen British individuals to counterbalance those who actually want to be there.

ha ha, make serving in the House of Lords the new Jury Duty? Oh my, what a concept.

Stan for Andrew Adonis then. (I quite Like him, at least in his transport secretary roll, he seemed to be one of the few people in that job to actually roll his sleeves up and try and understand the problems rather than see it as a waiting room for a better Job).

this is probably going to drive NV barmy, and i'm not saying i understand his policies, but i get the impression the same is true of Gove.

WRONG THREAD

Ermine robes can be the new mark of Caine. The chains of 5 years of public servitude. Maybe they can entitle you to a free bus pass and half price nuts in the pub.

You can apply to join the Lords anyway, can't you?

id like adonis more if he were elected

h8 gove massively

Tried that, never offered me a coronet.

OK, so you never got any ice cream out of it, but that's no reason to give up trying

What did Andy Burnham do to piss off David Gower xps?

h8 gove massively

oh sure. just saying he actually seems like he thinks his new job is important and wants to be in it, and has done some preparation. dread to think what he's going to do tho.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/7632470/Andy-Burnham-is-on-a-sticky-wicket-with-David-Gower.html

Surely Michael Gove is only in the cabinet to lend Osbourne an air of c comparative gravitas?

Ed perhaps you could vote for that William Hague chap, he had a directorship of an engineering firm last time I looked.

I'm more of a Ken Clarke man; like Europe, Fags and Jazz, studies law but i'll led that pass.

DC likes Europe, Fags and Radiohead. Is that close enough?

Uhhhhhh, when you say "Fags"? Europe? You mean Joey Tempest's boys?

can't front, professional cricketers are almost universally hard-right in their political/moral beliefs

Michael Gove at Education is a crock because he sends his kids to a state primary in Kensington that's massively oversubscribed, and C of E. So Mr and Mrs Atheist had a bit of a finding Jesus down the back of the sofa moment and Mrs Gove now teaches Sunday school there.

I'm just amazed he found a woman to marry him

Apologies, dind't want the facts to get in the way of my lame joke. xxxp

Haha poor David Gower, he surely must've been mistaken for Gatting there

There's a first

did any of the possible candidates for this oppose the iraq war?

― nakhchivan, Wednesday, 12 May 2010 11:12 (Yesterday) Bookmark

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/13/labour-fairness-denham-election

feels like denham is setting out his stall here but there's no rumour mill around him. resigned ministerial post over iraq. kind of a "safe pair of hands" guy. maybe too low key though.

Wasn't Denham the guy who used the phrase "ideologically neutral" about NuLab? Fuck him if that's the case.

google says that was prob purnell

thanks joe, denham seems nice enough and a good sort to have around but not rly quite enough? if there's to be a labour leader of consequence, intelligence ~and~ integrity (haha) they'll probably have to come from the post-2005 cohort, for whom it's likely come too soon

purnell fucked up his resignation rite? but yeah i'm not sure he's all that anyway

purnell a bit far over to the right imo

don't think he can articulate what a labour party is for. lots of shit about "choice" in schools blah blah blah.

^pretty OTM, hope Labour doesn't have to go through it's own versions of Billy Bollocks, The Quiet man and the Creature of the Night to get to the new blood, though.

xpost

Purnell's not an MP any more - he gave up totally after resigning

Billy Bollocks, The Quiet man and the Creature of the Night

i honestly completely forgot michael howard had been tory leader until the other day. regarding the other two, it has been really unpleasant seeing them re-emerge. i thought we were long rid of them.

you cannot kill them they are already undead

Thatcher was a scientist, Ed. Rather have more 'union wonks' in labour ranks in future.

Every time someone brings up the whole Ken Clarke is a jazz fan...

I guess it would be lovely if politicians had a varied range of interests and a passion or two outside politics: anything to perhaps broaden minds, a willingness to understand, but also the capacity to read into different civil servant's agendas seems to be more important than whether you have specialized in a quantitative discipline! A degree in Economics may not help a Chancellor of the Exchequer. He still needs to cross that with many opinions on people who have more of an expertise, as well as to keep in mind the manifesto pledges that got him there in the first place.

Really wish Alan Johnson stood. I think that would have initiated far more of a debate than a contest between the David and Ed Miliband.

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif cruddas has decided not to run http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

wonder who he'll back. weren't there rumours of him backing DM? reckon he's more of an ed guy.

what?! he was the best potential candidate. damn shame.

kinda feel like this is becoming too much of a coronation

there are like four probable candidates now

Yes, it's disappointing, especially after watching DM's lacklustre performance to-day.

Livingstone on the radio this afternoon says that Kinnock changed the rules back in the 80s so in order to stand you have to have the backing of 20 percent of the MPs? So there can only be 5 candidates tops. May have misheard and can't be arsed to Google the rulebook right now.

More than 5 would be confusing. At the moment though it just seems like different shades of one.

I don't get it with this lot, they'll do anything to avoid a meaningful contest they might lose. Who was the last to take on such a fight, Bryan Gould?

Robin Cook over Iraq I guess

dont think he challenged blair

then again brown didnt challenge blair, did he?

More than 5 would be confusing.

Right now I think it's more important for the Party to try and get this right rather than to rush to put whoever they guess will be most telegenic into opposition. This whole process needs to get deep into putting right the mistakes or mis-steps of the last 15 years. And even bearing in mind my quaint 20th century leftiedom I think most Party members/supporters must now recognise there's plenty of shit to put right. "The public didn't understand the message" is not gonna cut it now.

^^^

they have to win seats in the south

but believe it or not, most people in the south are not wealthy/"aspirational" and don't benefit from conservative/crypto-conservative rule

they don't benefit from (e.g.) making buy-to-let property deals a big "thing"

Cook didn't challenge Blair, I just meant he took a stand/risk on something where he might've been proved wrong and lost out bigtime. Can't think of many others who did that (I guess Blair himself over Iraq, actually) - everything else has been resolved internally.

Livingstone on the radio this afternoon says that Kinnock changed the rules back in the 80s so in order to stand you have to have the backing of 20 percent of the MPs? So there can only be 5 candidates tops. May have misheard and can't be arsed to Google the rulebook right now.

You need the support of 34 MPs to declare candidacy according to the Graun.

I think - okay it's also wishful thinking, but I honestly believe - that if the current government can stay in power for a couple of years there could well be an appetite amongst the public for a genuinely social democratic alternative. We'll still be living with the consequences of the financial meltdown plus some old-school Thatcherite butchery and a Labour Party with the balls to campaign for economic democracy - the notion that business is accountable to the people and can't just do whatever it wants - could get back into power with a properly progressive manifesto. We need to lose the civil libs hardman shit as well.

Which of the three plausible candidates (Miliband x2 plus Balls) do you think is best placed or most likely to do that? I really have no idea.

Kind of why Cruddas was necessary to have in the race, he might have opened the debate up.

perhaps cruddas has gone into coalition with one of the other candidates to moderate their agenda. i hear it's all the rage.

Since Cruddas was never gonna win it's fine if he can exert some influence on one of the likely candidates. This is probably gonna come down to Balls vs E. Milliband in which case Milliband all the way. Surely even the rightest wing of the Party has gotta recognise that without some clear blue water and a set of policies that inspire people, Labour might as well cease to exist? At the moment I am very, very guardedly optimistic. God knows why tbh, it's a character flaw I thought I'd lost.

it's the new politics

i just don't get why he didn't stand - he had nothing to lose and would have really opened the debate up. Now we've just got Miliband I & II and fucking Balls. Ugh, Labour's going to be in the wilderness for at least a decade at this rate.

i think there's hope

kinda agree w. this guy i heard on the radio who said it was more important they debate where they're headed w.out leadership being the key issue. which i guess is another way of saying it ought to be less "presidential" than under blair. and blair had way more power in the labour party than any american president has in the democratic party. picking the telegenic guy, or the presentation guy, is less of a problem if he isn't also deciding everything with a small clique of advisers.

"I am determined to play a full role in the reinvigoration of a party that stands as the best hope for the people of this country. But to put it simply, that role of rebuilding and energising the party is a job that doesn't have a vacancy. I would like to be involved in the debate about the future direction of the party and how we reconnect with our lost voters.

"But I cannot enter a leadership election just to contribute to a debate; to go into this must be on the basis of running to win and hand on heart I do not want to be leader of the Labour Party or subsequently Prime Minister. These require certain qualities I do not possess."

Have never been a full on Cruddas stan but that's a good speech imo

Think at least one Miliband will be quite heavily burned by their experiences over the last couple of years - they know there's something wrong and something to react against, just a question of how they do so. If Ed Balls is seriously considering standing for the leadership with that tiny majority then he's an idiot, he should surely know how little public enthusiasm there is for him. You can't have an opposition leader who could lose his seat at the next election.

they could bounce him into a different seat but yeah the "optics" on that are bad, as i believe the pros say.

I just think his own ego plus enough people egging him on means he'll run in the end.

If Ed Balls is seriously considering standing for the leadership with that tiny majority then he's an idiot, he should surely know how little public enthusiasm there is for him. You can't have an opposition leader who could lose his seat at the next election.

While I don't want Ed Balls to become the leader, I don't completely agree with that analysis. The narrowness of his majority reflects the make up of his constituency, rather than a lack of wider public enthusiasm. If David Cameron had stood in Bow & Poplar he would have been thrashed, but that doesn't mean he is hated by 95% of the electorate. The fact that Ed Balls kept his seat when he was widely predicted to lose it means he's probably a little bit more popular than we think. Also, if he was leader his aim would be to win the next election. To do that he'd need a reasonable swing to Labour. If that happened, it's highly unlikely he would lose his own seat. If he did lose his seat, it would presumably be because there had been a swing away from Labour. If that happened, then Labour would lose the election badly and they would be looking for a new leader anyway.

http://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpghttp://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpg

This:

picking the telegenic guy, or the presentation guy, is less of a problem if he isn't also deciding everything with a small clique of advisers.

― all i wanna do is poll poll poll poll and zing and discuss mia (history mayne), Monday, May 17, 2010 9:42 PM

is right, I think.

John McDonnel -> In

Have you got any idea of who you'll choose, Ed?

Holding fire on that one till i get a full list and until they convince me. Best I can do so far is i share two names with one milliband and the only reason I have for voting for him is that he isn't the other one.

Very keen for it not to be David Milliband, though.

Is it cos he is Blairite? I like Ed Mili best but David Mili seemed to be OK in his last cabinet post. I simply cannot imagine Hague doing that or any other job without brane breakage.

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif ed 'light touch' balls will run http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

nuf with t

-he sirens

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/speech_est_111006.htm

Are we gonna get the drudgesiren.gif every time one of these guys announces? xposthivemind

yes

only one or two more to go, i should think tho

The overuse of Drudge sirens is the very spirit of Drudge sirens.

I think - okay it's also wishful thinking, but I honestly believe - that if the current government can stay in power for a couple of years there could well be an appetite amongst the public for a genuinely social democratic alternative. We'll still be living with the consequences of the financial meltdown plus some old-school Thatcherite butchery and a Labour Party with the balls to campaign for economic democracy - the notion that business is accountable to the people and can't just do whatever it wants - could get back into power with a properly progressive manifesto. We need to lose the civil libs hardman shit as well.

― Are We Hardman or Are We Lapdancer? (Noodle Vague), Monday, 17 May 2010 22:21 (Yesterday) Bookmark

srs question, what would your hoped-for social democratic govt look like now, in terms of their core policies and disposition wrt foreign affairs? it's difficult to pick up where the last lot left off when ed miliband probably wasn't even born that far back

David Miliband has already proven he hasn't got what it takes. He messed up God knows how many attempts to get rid of Brown when it was patently obvious Labour would do better with someone else. Labour only needed a dozen or so more seats to make a Lib-Lab coalition a likelihood.

^^^I agree with this even though I really despise all the intra-Labour SPAD plots (I think voters hated this too). D.Mili is fine as a member of Cabinet but the whole show? Naaaaah.

OMFG Diane Abbott's just announced she's standing on Radio 4.

Signal Passed At Danger? xp

Well, Abbott is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group, so that's good. On the other hand, she's Diane Abbott.

There was an article suggesting she should run on the Guardian yesterday and I pretty much agreed with the tory trolls that inhabit that site that this would be a bonus for them. Still at least they'll be some debate now. Heard Ball on radio yesterday and he seemed hopelessly inarticulate. Had no coherent argument for running other than he could.

srs question, what would your hoped-for social democratic govt look like now, in terms of their core policies and disposition wrt foreign affairs?

I don't have details or a five year plan. I would like to see: the tax burden shifted away from the poorest and towards the wealthiest and business, reduction of VAT and replacement with fairer Income Taxes, power devolved to local authorities to make them genuinely responsible and accountable for most local services, phased withdrawal from nuclear deterrent, huge improvements in public transport infrastructure, tax credit system dropped or severely streamlined, minimum wage kept in line with inflation, increase in public accountability for all businesses including maybe public representatives on boards of larger companies.

I'm frustratingly not gonna get time to talk about this today much, and it's v. general and off the top of my head but fuck it I'm not writing a manifesto over breakfast. I don't think most of it need be presented as loony Leftism and I think with will and hard thought a lot of it could be sold to the electorate.

Well, Abbott is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group, so that's good. On the other hand, she's Diane Abbott.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking. Fuck a personality tho, I am genuinely a little stoked that some home truths might get brought to the leadership battle now, before getting snuffed out and stamped under the jackboot of "we need to listen to the electorate more so same manifesto as 97 plus let's not be beastly to the students".

I've had enough of her on that weekly politics show with Michael Portillo and Andrew Neil.

Oh...SPecial ADvisors? xps (still don't geddit)

The 57-year-old Cambridge graduate, who became the UK's first black woman MP in 1987, said she was getting support from both MPs on the left and women MPs.

Because all women MPs are oh I can't be bothered.

She's probably the candidate I prefer so far, at least with Cruddas gone. Can't imagine wanting Ed Balls or the Chuckle Bros. The trouble, I guess, with doing a weekly TV show for so long is that there is bound to be lots of ammunition to use against you, seeming contradictions in policy.

McDonnell is good, but his failure to get enough support in 2007 is worrying.

I fully get the grating aspects of her personality but yeah I'm pleased she's running and it would be glorious, tho unlikely, if she can compete.

McDonnell is too austere to win votes and probably a bit of an old Stalinist on the quiet.

The left should be sure to settle on one candidate, anyway, rather than split the vote - leave that to the brown/blairites, who are all too ambitious to step down for the greater good.

got no strong impression of mcdonnell. all the more strange that cruddas did not run. wonder if he has a deal with one of the frontrunners.

abbott... not so much.

McDonnell isn't a stalinist of course - he's just a bennite who can't keep his mouth shut, hence all his baggage. Too many enemies, left and right, and too many ill-advised statements make him a non-runner, really.

just don't think state ownership of industry and a planned economy is going to win the day in those key marginals

:(

When chatting about this in my local yesterday (I live in a small village attached to a RAF base, so mostly servicemen/ex-servicemen) and I mentioned McDonnell most of them (who knew who he was) just thought of his alleged pro-IRA stance, which would probably be a big enough vote-killer before we get to the Red Flag stage.

yeah i read about that on wiki. can't say it made me warm to him.

Whatever you think about Ireland, it's a pretty damn stupid thing to say in public.

I don't have details or a five year plan. I would like to see: the tax burden shifted away from the poorest and towards the wealthiest and business, reduction of VAT and replacement with fairer Income Taxes, power devolved to local authorities to make them genuinely responsible and accountable for most local services, phased withdrawal from nuclear deterrent, huge improvements in public transport infrastructure, tax credit system dropped or severely streamlined, minimum wage kept in line with inflation, increase in public accountability for all businesses including maybe public representatives on boards of larger companies.

This is kind of a precis of the Geen Party manifesto afaict.

Um, that's the Green Party obv.

It's not easy being Geen.

It's not easy being Ed Gein.

Or Ed Balls either, to get us back on topic.

There were a lot of Green policies I agreed with, but I wd like those policies to have the possibility of being carried out. Plus I'm not sure about other Green Party stuff or their members in general.

McDonnell back in January. Nicely prescient.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/12/new-labour-rootless-pretenders

Yeah we have a Green Party in govt, they're just another upper-middle-class elite when in power.

NV's policy packet should be a fairly straight bat Labour backbone, but it's pretty far away from where the party's been for a long time.

Room for a new party?

Well, Abbott is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group, so that's good. On the other hand, she's Diane Abbott.

LOL. Ludicrous, she's a complete airhead who allows herself to be humiliated every week by those two right-wing wankers, Portillo and Neil

yay let's debate the issues

The fact that she's an idiot is an issue, surely?

liking the sound of yr own voice on TV /= being an idiot. I'm more interested in what policies she's proposing and what support she can get for those policies.

There's more to it than "liking the sound of yr own voice on tv", like, uh, what you actually say with that voice. Anyway, way to go Diane, gives the Tories even more to snigger and look smug about.

That footage of her making sucking sounds in the House will soon put her back in her place.

Think the Tories have a bit too much on their minds to bother too much about Diane Abbott right now. It's not like she's going to win or anything, but if she opens the debate up then it's a good thing.

Well there's laughs to be had from it, I grant you.

I thought McDonnell was running anyway?

Fuck a September leadership election though. We're going to go through the first Osborne budget without there being any authoritative voice on the opposition benches to call him out. Good work there Labour, way to seize the initiative while in opposition.

I do recognise that I am an "airhead" and an "idiot" when it comes to politics, but would one of you be so kind to link to an example of her "idiocy" so that I can understand what exactly it is you object to? thanks.

I don't know about that, shit's not gonna his the fan for a while yet, perhaps let them have their honeymoon period and then hit them in the solar plexus on the way down (xp)

I do recognise that I am an "airhead" and an "idiot" when it comes to politics, but would one of you be so kind to link to an example of her "idiocy" so that I can understand what exactly it is you object to? thanks.

The entire recorded output of "This Week" perhaps?

(Actually do we even have a Shadow Cabinet right now? Presumably the ex-Cabinet ministers just continue with their focus in opposition? So it'll be Alistair Darling responding to the Budget?)

I don't know! I thought Darling was returning to the back benches?

yup

xp

No, I'd like you to find a specific example, please, and link to it in an internet readable format. I do recognise if that's too much work.

kate have you ever seen 'the week'?

No, I haven't. I don't own a televition. That is why I'm asking for an example. I would have thought that was obvious.

can't really get behind any member of the 'socialist campaign group' who sends their son to a fee paying school (after slagging off blair and harman for sending their kids to selective schools)

Well, I'd go as far as: (xpost to Kate)

Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo are not top bench politico's (any more)...

So, they can afford to be 'pally' and chortle, and 'give and take' perspectives on the prog, whereas Diane Abbott can't really do this if she's an eye on higher office. Of course, she'd be unable to carry on with the prog but all her previous 'indiscretions' would be brought out as if they were skeletons.

Apart from that, um, nothing really.

xpost
Sending her son to a £10,000 per year school, which she herself described as "indefensible" and "intellectually incoherent"?

can't really get behind any member of the 'socialist campaign group' who sends their son to a fee paying school (after slagging off blair and harman for sending their kids to selective schools)

I'd forgotten that!

On This Week she sometimes gives the alarming impression of not really knowing what she's talking about but Diane Abbott is consistently on the right side of most of the issues (look it up) and consistently sticks up for the poor, which is probably why she doubled her majority in Hackney.

Getting abck to the issues - she chose a Buju Banton on Desert Island Discs.

Often the best judges of the activities of a backbench MP are her constituents.

This Week is not the worst thing on TV but I would be massively entertained by the smackdown Abbott will deliver to anyone who complains about it as part of the debate. I am really not concerned about the whole private-school thing - she is hardly unique amongst her constituents in failing to get a child's first (or even third) choice at a state school, and at least hasn't pretended to be religious to get a place somewhere (which I think is a bigger crime HELLO MR AND MRS GOVE).

Yvette Cooper could hardly run because of expenses claims issues, and I am surprised her meaty old hubby is running for the same reasons because they will rate a mention. I would like Ed Balls to be creamed in this TBH. Harman isn't as clever as people think, plus is as posh as the people we have been criticizing for being posh (although granted, if you're a posh Lab person you're concerned about the less fortunate without being all Victorian about them).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3229453.stm

"this is indefensible but fuck it I can afford it"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/dianeabbott

^ Maybe someone wants to stick a pin in here somewhere? Have to say that I do quite like her but whatevers.

Diane Abbott is consistently on the right side of most of the issues (look it up) and consistently sticks up for the poor

I wouldn't deny that

xp

A Buju Banton track...she didn't take him as her luxury or anything...

but Diane Abbott is consistently on the right side of most of the issues (look it up) and consistently sticks up for the poor, which is probably why she doubled her majority in Hackney.

^^^^^ this was my general impression based on my limited exposure and my tweetosphere's discussion of her voting record. Which, to me, is slightly more important than whether she comes off as knowledgeable on TV chat shows.

x-posts

Sounds like an argument for George W. Bush

consistently sticks up for the poor

MORRIS: Sport now, with Alan Partridge. Alan, you're a keen fan of the law, aren't you?

PARTRIDGE: I certainly am, I support the law fully. Not too keen on those that break it, though.

MORRIS: How do you support it, then?

PARTRIDGE: Just generally... support it.

MORRIS: What, just generally turn up on a Saturday afternoon and wave at it from the touchline?

I don't think your heart being in the right place (about everything but the education of your son) is really enough

Are you two saying Abbott's actions as an MP don't actually help disadvantaged people in her constituency??

No, Tom, it sounds like an argument for issues-based political decisions, rather than personality based voting. Which is rather the opposite.

I mean granted, she's no Steve Coogan

xpost

I think the issue is the massive gulf between "being a good constituency MP" and "being a good leader of the opposition". She comes across as well meaning and personable but naive to say the least. I'm sure she's an excellent MP for Hackney but if she somehow won this election she would be slaughtered and hung out to dry in a way that would make older Labour MPs nostalgic for the good old days of Michael Foot.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/diane-abbott-you-ask-the-questions-1892291.html
Monday, 8 February 2010

Do you want to be Prime Minister? Harriet Bloar, St Ives

No. But I wouldn't mind being Mayor of London.

flip flopper!

No, Tom, it sounds like an argument for issues-based political decisions, rather than personality based voting. Which is rather the opposite.

On the contrary, Diane Abbott is a celebrity politician, a TV personality: John McDonnell, whose voting record is far more impressive than Abbott's, is not and he's running from the Left.

I'd much rather a politician who actually voted to improve education (while sending their own child to a fee paying school) than a politician who gave lip service to education while actually gutting it (while still sending their own child to a fee paying school.)

In this case, there is actually a bigger sin than hypocrisy, though I do understand that in Britain it's viewed as the worst form.

But you know, I'll go back to sucking my teeth at the back of the room and not knowing what I'm talking about while the men discuss the real issues here or something. Whatevs.

Are you two saying Abbott's actions as an MP don't actually help disadvantaged people in her constituency??

what's she done in hackney? genuine qn

if you're talking about the record of new labour generally, then... not great, reducing the gap between haves and have-nots, really

evidently she doesn't think much of its education policy

She did increase her maj. in Hackney, so I suppose she's doing something right - tho I've none of the people in the constituency that I know seem to have a good word to say about her.

But you know, I'll go back to sucking my teeth at the back of the room and not knowing what I'm talking about while the men discuss the real issues here or something

Kate, what's that got to do with it? Obv. I'd rather have Cruddas than either Abbott or McDonnell, but we're outta luck there.

Oh yeah absolutely Matt! I don't think she plans to win though. I just want to rebut this weird idea that Abbott is all style and no substance. It's not true at all.

Would be pretty funny if House-of-Cards style calamities befell all the other candidates and she ended up as leader. Somebody should write that as a TV show.

history mayne you can start here - http://www.blackeducation.info/

i hate diane abbott cos she's a woman, tbh. don't know anything about her.

Fuck a September leadership election though. We're going to go through the first Osborne budget without there being any authoritative voice on the opposition benches to call him out. Good work there Labour, way to seize the initiative while in opposition.

― Matt DC, Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:36 AM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark

nah i think the longer the better, really. too much momentum behind d. miliband right now. i think they'll all be piling on when the budget hits.

don't think anyone is calling out d. abbott for being "all style"

My caretaker's son is a student at the Oratory; it is a selective school but it is still 'state'. Also, the destruction of the ILEA by Tories is a factor in the choice of all parents in Abbott's area - the schools there were fairly decent before this - and once something like that gets wrecked by one party in power, it's about 10 times harder for the next party to fix.

I'll go back to sucking my teeth at the back of the room and not knowing what I'm talking about while the men discuss the real issues here or something. Whatevs.

Yes this is all about her gender. Ed Balls is probably a woman too.

I'm all for Abbott standing, though I don't think she'll get near a final ballot. I like that she decided a long time ago to stop toeing the nuLab line on a number of issues. I do think she has a mostly socialist agenda and has lots of intelligent things to say about multiculturalism & diversity. I think she can force other candidates to talk about issues they aren't comfortable about. I think her decision to use a private school, particularly after criticising other Labour MPs for hypocrisy, is indefensible. I don't like the idea of celebrity politicians. I can't believe she's 57.

I just want to rebut this weird idea that Abbott is all style and no substance

Well, I didn't say that, I said her heart is in the right place but, too often, her brain isn't quite there yet

I think she can force other candidates to talk about issues they aren't comfortable about.

This is why she should be in the race.

I think her decision to use a private school, particularly after criticising other Labour MPs for hypocrisy, is indefensible.

This is why she shouldn't win.

I can't believe she's 57

As Naomi Campbell has been known to say, 'black don't crack'.

There was also her comment from the 90s about how the NHS shouldn't be employing Finnish nurses because they've never met a black person before, but hey Ken Livingstone managed to run London for years having said loads of equally stupid things.

Tom D I guess when you called her a celebrity politician and history mayne suggested that Abbott's support for the poor is just lip-service I should have realized that what you were actually saying is that she isn't quite there yet!

I'm not quite so harsh about the private school thing. What politicians do with their kids' education is a black box that no one else can understand and shouldn't try. Yes Abbott should have realized this when she was slamming other people, but she does like to run her mouth it must be said.

I think she can force other candidates to talk about issues they aren't comfortable about.

I suppose, but there's already a Left candidate I don't know why we need a comedy Left candidate too

What is the worse kind of hypocrisy?

Saying one thing and doing another in your personal life when that decision affects you & your family?

Saying one thing and doing another in your voting when that decision affects the choices of thousands or millions of people?

I just think there are different grades of indefensible. And that the British in specific get very het up about the former while completely disregarding the latter, and much more important issue.

Anyway, I'm sure that Labour will make the right choice and pick a perfectly non-hypocritical white, middle class male whose facial cracks are indicative of the right sort of character.

Other than the fact that she's famous and a "personality" (xp)

Kate you are so infuriating when you resort to this ridiculously passive-aggressive style of argument. No one here is going "she's a black woman, therefore she must be rubbish", stop pretending they are, it's undermining everything else you're saying.

i said it, tbf

history mayne suggested that Abbott's support for the poor is just lip-service

not exactly -- did genuinely wonder what you meant by 'standing up for the poor', partly in context of her being part of a party that did very little for the poor, partly because of the private school thing. which, given that i went to one (though nothing like as expensive as her son's), i can't exactly jump on but... its just that she attacked others for doing the same. and my parents are not labour mps.

i have no idea why faking religion to get into a good school is seen as a problem by anyone other than the actually religious.

kate you are bit off-base re the milibands. why is diane abbott less middle-class than them exactly?

(and yes, they are white, but also the offspring of not really that legal jewish marxist immigrants, so not that establishment really.)

Any road up, I have a sneaking suspicion Young Ed's gonna win it

me too

That's where I'd bet. What's important is how the Party deals with policy, I've got no prob with Ed Milli as a figurehead.

Plus they don't come much younger and fresher and bushy-tailed than Wee Eddie

Matt, my "passive aggression" is down to the fact that when asked for specific examples, people cannot provide them. It's just this general vague sense that she's "not up to the job."

In stating the conclusion and putting that prejudice out there, I hope that perhaps when infuriated, people might actually incite people to articulate what, exactly, it is they disagree with about her rather than this lazy vague talk.

I think it's more a case that people can't/won't spend time researching information to back up everything they want to say in a ILX thread and this is fair enough.

It'd be a bit time-consuming for a start.

In that case people should STFU.

would be more interested in hearing anyone pitch for positive reasons why their candidate should get in, tbh

i love diane abbott - she won't win, but i suspect even she's motivated more by the opportunity to ensure a wider debate - with her in the running, lots of issues will be brought to the fore which otherwise wouldn't have been, not least that of representation. i honestly have no idea why anyone gives a shit where she sends her kids to school - putting ideology over your child's education if it entails consigning them to a shitty state school would be more fucked-up imo. have no idea why she'd be the "comedy" candidate, that's rather belittling to her and her achievements.

her speech against 42 days detention was great -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VtW0uDJbUg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDw-ej-o86Q

Matt, my "passive aggression" is down to the fact that when asked for specific examples, people cannot provide them.

I'm not looking for a fight here but we did say the entirety of her appearances on "This Week", where she continually has rings run round her by Portillo and Andrew Neil - admittedly two pretty intelligent geezers - and sits there and smiles and mugs and then comes back again the next week to make a further fool of herself, and not do proper justice to the issues she undoubtedly believes in

when asked for specific examples, people cannot provide them

People have provided them. Anyway, she probably isn't up to the job, but in the way that Michael Foot wasn't despite being a nice and principled politican of the left. No one seems to think Ed Balls is up to the job either, and he's been dismissed as snottily as Abbott.

But really, even Diane Abbott knows she isn't going to win, so it almost doesn't matter whether she's up to the job, the question is what is she trying to accomplish? She wants to open the debate up, provide an alternative perspective, and I think everyone except Tom thinks that's broadly a good thing.

I think John Cruddas has pulled out of the race to give himself a position of influence at the top table whoever wins. Could be interesting in terms of a link to the grass routes, and hopefully in more than a totemic John Prescott way.

putting ideology over your child's education if it entails consigning them to a shitty state school would be more fucked-up imo

agree with this

In that case people should STFU.

I'm not driving any further up this sidetrack but SRSLY? Every statement you make's gonna have 2 quotes and some footnotes attached?

Ed Milliband looks like one of those really drunk guys who'll talk to you uninvited at a club, and you can't quite figure out if they are being friendly and aggressive. Better than his bro though - I think Ed has Unite's support, which is something.

AT LEAST

xpost

in abbott's own words, anyway - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/diane-abbott-you-ask-the-questions-1892291.html

Why did you send your boy to a private school, when you boast of being a socialist and private schools are single biggest source of injustice in this country?

In 2001, when my son was facing secondary transfer, the average numbers of boys nationally getting five GCSE A-Cs was 42 per cent. In Hackney the average number of black boys getting the same result was 9 per cent. And the school in Hackney that we were actually offered was so poor that it closed shortly afterwards. But since then: a Labour Government has poured money into Hackney schools; a series of excellent academies has opened in the borough; attainment levels overall in Hackney have gone up. So if he was transferring to secondary school now, I would not face the same dilemma.

No, not two quotes and some footnotes, but something beyond "she's an airhead" (not even getting into what kind of loaded terminology that is)

And since making my snotty passive aggressive remarks, people have started talking in a way that opens the debate up, provides an alternative perspective, and I think everyone except Tom thinks that's broadly a good thing.

i honestly have no idea why anyone gives a shit where she sends her kids to school - putting ideology over your child's education if it entails consigning them to a shitty state school would be more fucked-up imo.

Thing is, she apparently gave a shit about it on an ideological level and criticised her colleagues' parenting and morality before she decided to put her child first - that's the indefensible bit.

Politicians being hypocrites is nothing new, neither are socialists miraculously shifting right once they have a bit of money in the bank - but if you're going to call out other people for it then do it yourself then you deserve to be slammed for it.

These 'specific examples' don't really exist in this sort of thing, do they?

When someone doesn't do too much wrong, but nothing spectacularly right, does this make them a 'safe pair of hands' or 'not exactly exciting'?

I think everyone except Tom thinks that's broadly a good thing.

Oh right, it's my turn to be the bad guy today? OK, fair enough, I'm not bothered.

I'm glad she's in the race, not least because she's an inner London MP. She can't win but this may well be a first move in trying to get selected as London Mayoral candidate, something I can definitely get behind.

Abbott and Portillo have known each other since school, when they appeared in a joint school production of Romeo and Juliet (although not in the title roles), and Macbeth as Lady Macduff and Macduff respectively

ah bless, so wonder they're so cosy on the This Week couch

E-Mili seems cannier regarding the media than his brother, who seems to combine the worst bits of Blair and Brown. D-Mili is much more tainted by association with the previous government, his brother is virtually unknown, which will stand in his favour. Also D-Mili made himself look an absolute idiot with all that will-he-won't-he stuff over the past couple of years.

I am very, very dubious about the "series of excellent academies" in Hackney. My friend teaches at one that's essentially been farmed out to a religious group and the first thing they were told was "no more promotion of homosexuality". That's more the fault of a succession of Education Secretaries than Abbott obviously.]

I would have guessed, given she is an MP, that Diane Abbott would have been able to get her child into any state school in her constituency, but I accept I'm coming from a position of near total ignorance here.

i'd rather have... someone else open up the debate. ftr i think the lack of women at the top of all three parties is a problem and actually im surprised harman is not running. i don't think she has much of a 'vision for britain', really.

not sure why being an inner london mp is an advantage!

xposts

I would have guessed, given she is an MP, that Diane Abbott would have been able to get her child into any state school in her constituency, but I accept I'm coming from a position of near total ignorance here.

Hmmmmmmm, yes, I'm find it hard to buy that "I'm in the same position as any other black single mother in Hackney" argument

"given she is an MP, that Diane Abbott would have been able to get her child into any state school in her constituency"

This is the kind of droit de signeur special favour that I just can't see Abbott participating in, which is one of the reasons I do like her.

Abbott and Portillo have known each other since school, when they appeared in a joint school production of Romeo and Juliet (although not in the title roles), and Macbeth as Lady Macduff and Macduff respectively

ah bless, so wonder they're so cosy on the This Week couch

― this skit is ba-na-nas (onimo), Thursday, 20 May 2010 11:38 Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Wait, Macduff & Lady Macduff don't actually have any scenes together, do they?

yeah they do!

I would have guessed, given she is an MP, that Diane Abbott would have been able to get her child into any state school in her constituency, but I accept I'm coming from a position of near total ignorance here.

perhaps she chose not to abuse her power?

I'm not sure that being an inner London MP is an advantage but rarely do they get into leadership roles. Pure tribalism on my part but I'd like it if the Labour Leader was coloured by the experience of representing an inner-city, London constituency.

HM, I am an atheist and if I ever need help from a charity, I would not accept it from a religious organization, because I do not have religious beliefs and I would feel like a hypocrite if I took alms from any of them. I don't understand how this is in any way inconsistent with having beliefs in non-belief.

I did not go to private school because my state school was excellent, but 13-year-old me was allergic to stupid in no uncertain terms and I would have jumped at the chance not to have any contact whatsoever with the bottom 25 per cent of my school's intake, because those people were VILE. Maybe that was Diane Abbott's son's problem, too. Blair's daughter was bullied nearly to death over Iraq at her selective state school in Hammersmith, so Tracer is right about the pressures of having to deal with your parents' actions every day in ways non-pols' kids won't experience.

perhaps she chose not to abuse her power?

She chose to send her son to private school instead, gold star for Ms Abbott

ftr i think the lack of women at the top of all three parties is a problem

Yeah, this is obviously the giant elephant in the room, and why I might get so uppity when there's only one woman who even throws her cap in the ring and she instantly gets dismissed as an "airhead".

I mean, sure, individually, you can all quite happily say "I'm not sexist, but..." but when looking at the numbers there is definitely something inherently sex-biased in the entire selection process. Maybe it'd be better to try and address that problem rather than get "passive aggressively" defensive about the only woman in the ring.

Anyway. Enough out of me. I'm not even a member of the Labour party.

Is "airhead" a term specifically aimed at women? I should avoid Americanisms I suppose.

http://www.arxvaldex.com/shop/images/airheads.jpg

They have long hair, they must be women.

I'll stick to dunderheid in future

ayrheid

13-year-old me was allergic to stupid in no uncertain terms and I would have jumped at the chance not to have any contact whatsoever with the bottom 25 per cent of my school's intake, because those people were VILE.

*cough*

Blair privately referred to Gerhardt Schroder as an airhead but yeah it's generally loaded towards women.

when looking at the numbers there is definitely something inherently sex-biased in the entire selection process

This is the crux of it really. There actually were quite a lot of female Cabinet ministers under Labour, probably more than any other government ever. Labour tended to promote people through a combination of blind loyalty and media-friendliness which I'm sure hampered the selection of really talented people right the way down, but was always going to be more damaging to female candidates.

xp you don't understand, stupid people as a group deserve everything they get.

Dude, at least I'm honest - do you expect a smart, bullied kid to have a high opinion of her torturers? Having been that person, I certainly don't.

Hey, the Labour Party will be lead by a woman till September at least! Then Diane takes over, innit.

I would have jumped at the chance not to have any contact whatsoever with the bottom 25 per cent of my school's intake, because those people were VILE

Fair enough, but this is not a great attitude to take if you are Diane Abbott and your job is to improve social inclusion.

So is that the reason Harriet Harman is being discounted?

(which reason? Pick one, so many xposts...)

Wait a minute, is suzy Diane Abbott now? So confused.

this sock epidemic is getting out of hand

Has suzy sat on Portillo's knee?

velkro is dick cheney

darraghmac is Boris Johnson, or at least is pretending to be

i haven't his subtlety or brains, to be honest

Matt, I was talking about the feelings of a child, not the feelings of an adult. A child with a massive vocabulary, testing at the top of her school in all subjects, is still a child.

Not to get too involved with what happened to me in junior high, but let's just say you could get into more disciplinary hot water for contradicting/interrupting the assistant principal in the meeting about bullying, than the the people doing the criminal-level stalking, harassment (both sexual and social), vandalism and theft that caused the meeting in the first place. Which ended in me asking the guy if we were going to have to involve a lawyer or the police, because I had written down every single incident contemporaneously, including his lack of ability to solve the problem without also engaging in an abuse of his power.

that's exactly the sort of thing Boris would say, Boris

xp

this isn't about me- move on, or i'll set the biggest metropolitan enforcer i can find on you

dflkjlk rgidfgodfj dfsgpodfpjgpfg dfpigigjdfxpgfd

Sorry I was trying to reply to suzy's post there but my 41" cock got wedged against the keyboard

LOL (honestly, I am used to people using socks to attack my posts, it's chickenshittery of the highest order that says enough about the content of that poster's character for me not to allow the criticism to matter that much).

MPx4A isn't a 'sock', in fairness

although with a 41" cock you'd have to speculate about the size of his feet

41" sock, you mean?

Freudian boast

dammit i know what i said

MPx4A isn't a 'sock', in fairness

so annoyed that the small 'p' got lost in the truncation of the original username

(the 41" large P trunKation amirite gags write themselves)

"Make my trunK the P-trunK"

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/oldschoolblues/blog/pfunk.jpg

great now we're actually talking about cock size, way to legitimise Masonic Boom's complaints guys.

Haven't seen a 41" cock since Ronnie Corbett was last on telly.

I don't give a shit about people talking about cock size.

I just care about politics not being made into a total sausage party.

Could Hazel Blears qualify as a 41" cock?

MPxAA was caught in an xpost scenario. My guess is more toward 41 mm.

The larger point is that I've made pretty substantive comments about what happens to kids of politicians in school, the specific nature of the school supply issues in the borough Diane Abbott represents and lives in, and all some of our more charmless correspondents can manage is to wonder for the fifty-millionth time whether I'm stuck-up for being aggressive and demanding *in adolescence* about something that could seriously have ruined my life had I not been.

xp the correct term is sausage fest, i think.

Dianne Abbott used three-word alliterative phrases (e.g. "she sells seashells") 464 times in debates — above average amongst MPs.

Abbott has said "modernise" only ten times in parliamentary speeches to November 2009.

^good to know.

From "what women say about men when they are not present": Sausage Party is the preferred feminist term IMO.

truncheon luncheon

wang fandango

erective collective

Sausage Fest is a preferred Bavarian term. Where does the Sausage Party fit in with the Rainbow Alliance?

{I have taught the children of 1 (1) opus-dei ex-education minister and 1 (1) current mayor of London - former was an A+ parent, as I imagine Abbott is to have done something similar? Latter not so much, although mum is good}

Dong Ding-Dong

This is the thing that I consistently find most offputting and exclusive about ILX politics discussions.

These endless digressions into LOL terminology discussion (usually at the expense of someone who has brought up a point they do not feel like discussing) which totally disregard the actual point that was brought up. It really reads like diversionary tactics to me.

And it's incredibly unpleasant to be the focus of.

x-posts

It's a way of dismissing what a person is actually saying, and making them feel incredibly small about saying those things, without ever actually discussing the (perhaps valid?) points that they have raised.

Not just applicable to poltics threads I would have thought

People already agreed about the problem with the lack of women at the top of any of the main parties. Diversions into crap wordplay about knobs are merely diversions and are not really directed at or away from anyone.

Masonic the last point I can see you raising is when looking at the numbers there is definitely something inherently sex-biased in the entire selection process which Matt DC immediately responded to...? I don't think you're wrong in general though.

yeah it was the lol dickjoke crew hijacked this thread alright.

It's so hard

...to resist

ur vote is ur power, remember that

People already agreed about the problem with the lack of women at the top of any of the main parties. Diversions into crap wordplay about knobs are merely diversions and are not really directed at or away from anyone.

This is completely illustrative of the homosocial qualities of political participation, whether in discussion or in service. That it is indirect and directionless and off-putting is grist for mine and Kate's mill TBH.

I apologise if my weak cock party effort has disenfranchised contributors to the thread.

Backbench MP Diane Abbott has joined the race for the Labour leadership.
The Londoner told the BBC her bid was "serious", saying there was little between the other candidates, who "all look the same".

To be fair two of them are brothers and three of them don't look like this
http://i44.tinypic.com/28k1nxi.jpg
but I see her point.

The prospect of a PM debate between Dave C, Nick C and Dave M = meh.

The prospect of a PM debate between Dave C, Nick C and Dave M = meh.

How about Dave C, Vince C (or Charlie K) and Ed M?

^LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL screen name

Vince C (or Charlie K) = sonotgonnahappen.jpg

You don't think Clegg and Laws et al will join the Conservative Party?

I'm not saying it's going to happen, I don't think it's sonotgonnahappen.jpg though

I think it's more likely Vince will join the Labour Party and Charlie will get pished.

I think it's more likely Vince will join the Labour Party

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/19/royal-mail-privatisation-plan

(not that Labour wouldn't do it, but I expect a more leftist Labour come 2015)

My biggest regret in British politics in 2010 is that the photo of Charles Kennedy in a pub with a fox has disappeared from the internet

foxy
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_01/ckennfagDM0607_228x316.jpg

Guy I know from the Heilans was telling me recently that, when quizzed about his drinking, Kennedy once said, "I don't drink any more than any other guy from Lochaber"

sorry to interrupt, can i ask an ignant question?

is there someone that the ukilxor cru is pulling for? are there names worth keeping track of?

there's only six people in it, and they haven't said n e thing substantial on policy yet

think ppl are a surprised/disappointed that jon cruddas, a likeable left-winger, isn't running

there is a less likeable/electable left-winger who is running though, john mcdonnell

i love the 'sorry to interrupt' after an hour of no posts, ur quality of manners & upbringing shines through imo.

i haven't been able to discern any favourites from ukilx, but it's very often hard to tell just what's going on in here tbh

why isn't cruddas running again? and who are we pulling for?

Not really, Cruddas isn't running, McDonnell is a boring Old Labourite, Abbott a "glaikit dunderheid", Balls unthinkable, Burnham who he? Which leaves the Miliband boys. So, not great really.

o yeah we're also saying grown up things like "imo they should figure out what the party's direction should be before getting into personality politics"

Stop bashing the Abbott, Tom.

hiyooooo

I keep thinking Burnham is Phil Woolas and vice versa

"boring Old Labourite" quite possibly exactly the person for the job though eh? i.e. the kind of person everyone was hoping Gordon Brown was going to be.

I'm a boring Old Labourite, but I wouldn't vote for me either

"boring Old Labourite" quite possibly exactly the person for the job though eh? i.e. the kind of person everyone was hoping Gordon Brown was going to be.

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Thursday, May 20, 2010 3:37 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

they need to win a majority of seats in the house of commons

"WE" aren't pulling for anyone. ILX is a collection of individuals with disparate views and their own opinions.

they need to win a majority of seats in the house of commons

How's that working out then?

also cos we're a message board

p.sure we have no sway in the labour leadership elections

Ed's in the Labour Party, so he has some sway

suggest miliband

That we have no-one repping very strongly for anyone, despite being what seems to me to be a fairly leftist bunch of posters, speaks volumes about the options available.

We'll end up being underwhelmed by one of the blokes Diane Abbott can't tell apart.

That we have no-one repping very strongly for anyone, despite being what seems to me to be a fairly leftist bunch of posters, speaks volumes about the options available.

they haven't begun to campaign yet!

Think Andy Burnham is courting the Kraftwerk-loving ILM consituency with his campaign website: http://www.andy4leader.com/

I have no vote but I suspect when all is said and done the winner will be Mili minor.

Diane Abbott won't win but like Ed said above, she'd be a great Mayoral candidate and I too suspect that this is what it might be about for her. I could also see Alan Johnson running for Mayor.

ooh, shapes

jfc Andy Burnham is wearing some serious mascara there!

Are there enough non-blarite Labour MPs left for 34 sitting MPs to nominate both McD and Abbott? That has to happen, right?

Well a pal of mine knows Burnham slightly and says he's a good guy, relaxed company, happy to chat to anyone about nothing in particular, and genuinely loves his footy, so I'm rooting for him.

a good guy, relaxed company, happy to chat to anyone about nothing in particular, and genuinely loves his footy

This probably describes 80% of MPs, though right??

I guess, but he is up against Ed Balls

can't believe abbott's even standing

http://www.andy4leader.com/images/background.jpg

triangles, rectangles, hexagons, yet no pentagons

they haven't begun to campaign yet!

most of them have been in or around the public eye for a few years, certainly enough time for us to form an opinion such as "oh I really like him/her, remember when..." or w/e.
Dave M was the new hot shit not so long ago but reaction here has been fairly mute towards him and his brother
Ed Balls has provoked some hostility
Abbott generated a bit of discussion but no outright enthusiasm for her as a leader/potential PM
Burnham and McDonnell have barely registered a comment

Gay? Triangle sends a particular message he may not want to impart about himself, if not. xpost

McDonnell is currently longer odds than a whole bunch of people not even standing.

triangles are gay?

only thing i know abt burnham is this stoopid story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7654473.stm

A couple of visual artists I know were invited to Number 11 last year for a reception and Burnham was there; my correspondent and his wife said he was nice but kind of clueless about his portfolio compared to others who held the post in Labour's government - but dude seems like an inoffensive ex-Peel listener. Basically, most of my pals on the British art scene though Chris Smith was God.

napalm death / ruff sqwad peel or lancastrian sentimentalist peel? the latter i fear

Gay? Triangle sends a particular message he may not want to impart about himself, if not. xpost

― cleggaeton (suzy),

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/05/19/andy-burnham-expected-to-enter-labour-leadership-contest/

He has the worst voting record for LGBT rights of the five Labour leadership candidates.

In 2008 he twice voted in favour of amendments that sought to discriminate against lesbian couple's rights to access IVF treatment. He abstained on three votes relating to the rights of gay couples jointing adopting children.

Mr McDonnell, who may not be able to gather sufficient support for his bid, has voted in favour of every gay equality measure, including gay couples adopting and civil partnerships, since becoming an MP in 1997.

He has the worst voting record for LGBT rights of the five Labour leadership candidates

Bloody Catholic, innit

Burnham is a Roman Catholic.[11]

looool

ha xp

can someone photoshop some baphomet inna his poster already

pentangles and goathead plz

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McDonnell_(politician)

"See also

Ken Livingstone
Tony Benn
Socialism"

nae luck big man

He abstained on three votes relating to the rights of gay couples jointing adopting children

EVIL GAY CHILD BUTCHERS MUST BE STOPPED

http://mishkanyc.verbsite.com.lg1x8zmax.simplecdn.net/bloglin/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/baphomet.jpg

Also an Evertonian, which also fits with the pic above.

What, vaguely Masonic?

Right, at least we know who Kate's supporting

Anichebe is a freemason and a devotee of Laveyan Satanism [12].

Hey, I'm a registered member of the Green party now, we've got our leader sorted already thanks.

The last time we had an Everton sympathiser as Labour leader he almost led the party to electoral extinction - let's not do it again.

would prob support any candidate with no interest whatsoever in football

Heard that an extension has been granted for candidates to try and get nominations in. Which will hopefully allow for a couple more candidates from the 'left'.

Would that split the vote, or do they whittle it down two for the final vote or something?

why 'left' in quotation marks?

"Would that split the vote, or do they whittle it down two for the final vote or something?"

Not sure - can't two candidates get a nomination each from one MP? Having never had the chance to watch this process closely before I don't know.

(Obviously when you're voting as to the best you go for one once you see the candidate under campaign performance.)

"why 'left' in quotation marks?"

Hard to know who is er, left in the 'left' of the party to make me wonder if there is one really. Not hearing a lot of noises against New Labour after the defeat (early days I know)

well, mcdonnell is standing

Right. No group as such, so far.

McDonnell couldn't get enough nominations when it was just him and Gordon Brown in the race and a load more Labour MPs in Parliament, not sure why he thinks he's going to get them now.

No-one will pay attention to him either, at least Diane Abbott will get the media interested. Neither are going to win, but might as well open up the debate.

x-post Well, that was a deliberate attempt at party unity - things are different this time. Still don't think he'll get them this time either, but it's a different situation now.

McDonnell couldn't get enough nominations when it was just him and Gordon Brown in the race and a load more Labour MPs in Parliament, not sure why he thinks he's going to get them now.

It certainly doesn't look like it at the moment.

David M 44, Ed M 39, Ed B 21, Andy B 12, Diane A 1, John McD 1
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tDrt0aKJrOLozGV8RQ-pukw&output=html

"Parties in the PLP May Appear More Right-Wing and Shite Than They Really Are"

Ah, so its one-on-one, ok.

No one who can unite any leftie block, if it exists and is just dormant.

No-one will pay attention to him either, at least Diane Abbott will get the media interested. Neither are going to win, but might as well open up the debate.

Can't get on with this either - if you're not going to get someone who has the potential to win then their points of view aren't be going to be taken seriously. No core on the ground to back it up...and I wouldn't be that bothered about media interest.

But if the nominations process wasn't solely in the hands of MPs then the leadership contest might look very different.

Basically those guys are the last people the Labour Party shd be letting decide anything at the moment.

You are right as long as if there was a core of talent on the left of the party that is somehow being stopped from holding positions on the shadow cabinet by the right-wing of the party. Doesn't look it.

I'm right anyway on a point of democratic principle, but I don't really know about what "talent" on the Left wd look like, the Party needs to reassert some key differences between itself and the other main parties, it needs to offer the huge tranche of disaffected voters a program that will inspire them, and it needs to get back to being a party run by its members, not some lol think tanks. Everything else is just presentation.

Is there a huge tranche of talent on the Left, regardless of party allegiance?

I think Talent is a v. dubious word to use in connection with politics but I'm a naive grumpy idealist.

that's why i didn't use the capital T tbh

I did stop when using the word talent but I don't have a better word to use this morning.

I agree that the party needs to be run by its members.

except when in govt, when it needs to be run by the people, ALL of the people, all the time.

*toke*

mayyyyynnne

I'm not having a go, you're right in one way, that the mediation of Parliamentary politics dictates that a frontline politician needs to have a set of performance skills. The problem is that those skills are becoming the sole arbiter of whether a politician has influence within their party. Obviously no party is gonna walk away from this state of affairs altogether but I do think that a party that tries to be less image-driven cd still gain political ground. This "think" is v. tenuous and subject to being disproven but the alternative is a dystopian nightmare imo.

This "think" is v. tenuous and subject to being disproven

well, point is that nobody's even trying it for it to be tested, which is the frustrating thing.

that said, our chief isn't exactly the image guru's dream, and he's still a gobshite.

Assume this is because we have the largest ever percentage of MPs whose careers have only ever been in politics and so are more concerned with playing the game than remembering what the point of it is.

Specialisation of elected officials always strikes me as a strange idea. What's the point of one profession running parliament? Isn't that what yerman in Yes Minister was for.

Not many proper jobs for Arts grads iirc

political talent isn't just performative though is it - it's the behind-the-scenes negotiating, the ability to navigate your way upwards, both in the +ve and -eve senses (people skills/machiavellian chess moves). that's why mandelson is so often described as talented, despite his own massive foot-shooting tendencies.

Yeah but when there's no/very little balance between those talents and actual public service ability/desire, then you get NV radge and voter apathy.

xpost

that's fair enough. There's a fine line between politician as representative of public/party opinion and former of that opinion. I feel like most of Labour's big hitters since the mid-90s have paid too much lip service to "give the people want they want", which can make you look like a policy-less headless chicken, whilst at the same time angling to remove more and more democratic process from the Party itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/26/labour-john-mcdonnell-diane-abbott

if at the end of this fortnight my standing down would mean securing any woman on this ballot paper, or any black person, of course I will do so. Throughout my political life, principles have always come before career.

is that a principle?

So far the Milbros are the only candidates with enough backers to be formally nominated. Balls is one short, Abott has one in total - maybe she should give it to him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jck_UGElBY

Balls is one short, Abott has one in total - maybe she should give it to him.

Diane has only got one, Balls

No joeks tho, it's really heartening to see the PLP so keen to have a varied and meaningful leadership contest.

you need to stop thinking of them as 'your' party, let it go man.

chriscoleman.jpg

No matter how bad they beat me, I can't quite let go or give up hope

don't they know it.

This ought to be the year where pretty much every Britisher who's ever voted has to stop thinking of "their" party as "their" party, but look like things are going to keep on rolling same as ever

Nah, pretty sure the Tories will still be looking after "their" voters.

^^^^main thing keeping the red flag flying for most of my friends TBH.

I'd have thought so too but I do get a little kick of schadenlols out of going to e.g. the Telegraph comments page and seeing their readership splenetic with betrayal that some woolly yellow-ties have been allowed into positions of absolutely fuck all power in the cabinet

(imagine the comedy "wah wah waaaah" noise echoing round my voted-for-LD-on-localish-issues head when Cuddly Vince Cable actually got into a government and said "hey guyz, let's privatise the Post Office", but also echoing round every British voter's head currently: the words "who the fuck else am I gonna vote for?")

pretty sure the Tories will still be looking after "their" voters.

politics 101 tho

Why neither of these men will ever be Prime Minister

uh
http://www.threespeech.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/cameron1.1.jpg

Good attempt but am looking forward to better headlines...

http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/national/balls_moves_within_touching_distance_of_ballot_paper_1_64218

Ha, they've changed the article. Bastards.

Ed Balls now has the required number of nominations.

Balls Seeks Election?

SUPPORT FOR BALLS

IT'S MILIBAND VS. MILIBAND BUT LABOUR HAS ONLY GOT ONE BALLS

Can't wait for BALLS OUT

... THE OTHER IS IN THE ALBERT HALLS (xp)

ED BALLS LOSES LEADERSHIP CONTEST BECAUSE HIS SURNAME SOUNDS LIKE A SLANG TERM FOR TESTICLES

NEW LABOUR, NEW BALLS PLEASE

L-R: MILLIBAND BALLS ABBOT

nice

you want two "t"s there, though - otherwise we're talking a very different news story

I ummed about the Ts and couldn't be bothered to Google

THIS WEEK IN THE NEW STATESMAN: BALLS

DIANE: TWO T'S PLEASE

BALLS UNFIT FOR JOB CLAIMS PM

BALLS SWINGS RIGHT

BALLS UP FOR LABOUR LEADERSHIP

THE BALLS I KNOW - by Yvette Cooper

CLOSER INSPECTION OF BALLS THRUSTS PARTY INTO TURMOIL

BALLS TO APPEAR ON TV DEBATE

BALLS PRESSES THE FLESH

Ed Reveals Working Class Roots: COALMAN BALLS

Ed Reveals Maritime Roots: SALTY BALLS

BALLS PRESSING MILI

MILI LASHES OUT AT BALLS

BALLS BAGS TOP JOB

TOUGH CAMPAIGN LEAVES BALLS DRAINED

MILIBAND ADDS TO BALLS TORTURE

BALLS SWEATING ON CLOSE POLL

BALLS: THINGS COULD GET HAIRY

He really can't win no matter what he says, can he? Tony Blair was one smooth convincing guy but he'd never have got near #10 if his name was Tony Balls.

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif John McDonnell has just told a Labour leadership hustings that if he had a time machine and could do one thing he would go back in time and 'assassinate Thatcher'. http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

OMG.

Yeah, because she only seemed like evil 20 years after the fact, right?

his website slogan is also "another world is possible" which makes me wonder if he realises he's standing for labour leader, not next dr who.

dr who wouldn't murder people though

He'd go back further in time, and get Amy to hug her.

Balls being a cock about EU free movement yesterday. I dislike him more and more everyday, populist twunt.

That was horrible, and he has a very punchable face.

PUNCHABLE BALLS

What we want is well hung Balls.

i am going to this 2nite!

http://images.newstatesman.com/leaderad2.jpg

lol @ all those photos, should've gone for it and chosen the ed balls rock hyrax one too

is Electoral Reform Society a poll?

http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif mcdonnell is audi 5 http://i.imgur.com/TDXaX.gif

Cracking work from the PLP there, ensuring the party doesn't even have the option of voting for a genuine socialist.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/6/9/1276072928412/Andy-Burnham-Ed-Balls-Ed--005.jpg

Check that variety out. Inspiring choice, eh Labour dudes?

Well, you'd expect two brothers to look somewhat alike

Abbott has made it onto the ballot according to the New Statesman website. David Miliband nominated her, interestingly.

are you coming tonight, matt?

McDonnell withdrew to help her (xp)

No - meetings at 8am tomorrow have put the breaks on that. Also the possibility that it would put me into a spiral of rage and despair.

i'm putting the potential rage out of my mind by focusing on the possibility that alastair might be there

and of course diane will be there now

We really need a hearts/flowers Blingee for whenever you mention the great lost love of your life, Lex.

Cameron has just really annoyed Ed Balls by comparing him to Alf Garnett. You know you're in shit when Tories are mocking you for being too right wing.

Kinda looks more like Cherry Blair's dad tbf

So yeah, looks like McDonnell had more nominations than Abbott at all stages of the process and was reportedly told by David Miliband that he'd won the hustings the other day, despite the Thatcher joke. And yet it's McDonnell that had to stand down to help Abbott get on the ballot? That's totally arse backwards.

Given that Miliband and several of his followers subsequently nominated Abbott, this strikes me as a case of "we should have a left-wing candidate on the ballot, lets make sure it's the one who's less likely to beat us". Dodgy as fuck.

Woman in the ballot, innit. McDonnell unlikely to beat anyone I would have thought, unless he gets his time machine and goes back and gives Maggie a kicking

Think it's also likely that he knew the Thatcher joke would be thrown at him time and time again and used as an indicator of failure of judgement.

I'm still amazed that there was only one woman in the running. But McDonnell must have known from the start that he and Abbott would never both get on the ballot, so his timing is odd.

Don't really see why they can't put all six on the ballot tbh, especially when neither McDonnell or Abbott has a serious chance of actually winning but might actually steer debate towards some of what those not in thrall to the nu-Lab project might want to hear.

Weird politicking from Dave M to nominate Abbott after hoovering up twice as many noms as he needed himself. Like it might look a nice move to help get a black woman on the ballot but only after making sure she struggles for a month to reach double figures.

Everyone expedted Harriet Harman to run, I expect

a few people have pointed out that abbott voters were likely to vote e-mil if she wasn't nominated, so d-mil's decision is a bit less weird in that light.

Also PLP just wants to keep out undesirables innit. Bent as fuck. Let any MP go on the ballot and let the party decide. It's not a million miles away from the system that allowed Frank Dobson onto the Labour ticket in 2000, despite Ken Livingstone getting the majority of the vote.

can't let just anybody stand in case they turn out to be some kind of leftie

D Milliband wants to do it with all of us:

It’s a privilege and an honour to be nominated as a candidate for the leadership of the Party I love.

Yes I’d like your vote. But I’m not writing about that today - this is about something bigger.

I’m writing to ask you to join me on a journey to examine, redefine and rebuild our Party. Because to be frank – I need you.

Robin Cook was exactly right when he said that “Political parties do not achieve renewal by shuffling staff in their Leader’s office, but by changing the culture, priorities and direction of the organisation.”

And I believe that the change we need can only happen if each of us come together to rebuild our Party from the grassroots up.

So I come to you with a single and simple request. To ask you to join me in our campaign to rebuild our Party:

http://www.davidmiliband.net/RebuildOurParty/

For too long Labour has failed its members. We’ve hidden you away in the shadows – when you should’ve been the heart and soul of our movement.

This cannot and should not go on. By coming together I believe we can unite every part of our Party.

Together we’ll guarantee that members have a central role in Labour - and the first step towards that is an elected Party Chair.

We’ll fight the Tories tooth and nail as they try to gerrymander the political system including our link to the Unions. We’ll rebuild, with 1000 future leaders across the length and breadth of Britain trained in community organising, and we’ll double our membership.

We’ll reinforce the vital role that local elected representatives play by welcoming the Leader of Labour’s Councillors to the Shadow Cabinet. And we’ll make sure that Scotland and Wales have an active role in the NEC.

But I don’t want our Party to just be a reflection of my ideas - I want it to be a reflection of yours.

The first step in that conversation is joining me in our campaign to rebuild our Party:

http://www.davidmiliband.net/RebuildOurParty/

I know that the road ahead is difficult. But we need to change politics not just policy. Dialogue not deals is the key to our future.

Throughout my adult life, Labour has given me so much. It is truly humbling to be considered as Leader. But this campaign means more to me than that.

Win or lose I want this campaign to leave a lasting legacy that defines where our Party goes in the next few years – and that means putting you at the heart of our movement.

We cannot wait for someone else, somewhere else to fix our Party – it’s up to me and you. And we don’t have a moment to waste.

Please join our campaign to rebuild our Party now:

http://www.davidmiliband.net/RebuildOurParty/

I believe I have the values and vision to inspire our movement to dream of a better future. I believe that I have the character and judgement to turn those dreams into reality. I want Labour to win again. I believe we can.

And I want to do it, with you, together.