the most important election of your lifetime: 2012 american general election thread

who are YOU gonna vote for??

Morbz duh

splendid thread title

Only 6.5 months of shopping days away!

my vote is pretty important cause I live in a big state (new york) so I don't want to just give it to just anybody, gonna be thinking this over for a long time

gonna have some long talks w/ my rabbi, family members, message board people

I live in California so zzz

def Nieuwenhuis for National League centerfielder

Dianne Feinstein's running again for Senate, will win, zzz.

ugh wish Feinstein's career was over already

congratulation to willard mitt romney!!

writing in Yosemite Sam as I do every 4 years

well he does have a decent chance of winning your state

Tea Party hates rabbits and evolution.

btw I think the number of ppl susceptible to "the most important election of your lifetime" has decreased a tad this cycle, haven't seen it anywhere. Maybe just reserved for use by cable idiots now.

Duck season!

surprised at aero's vote. why legitimize Yosemite Sam's continuing reign of terror?

so should I try to retain my VA registration until November despite probably living the whole year in MA so my vote will matter more for the presidency or should I register in MA so I can vote for Elizabeth Warren?

ma, virginia prob won't turn the election

Trying to think of how this scenario compares to '08. Romney seems more hardened in his beliefs than McCain. Not sure how that plays out.

I'm not sure how/if/when beliefs enter into any of this

lol, isn't the n*rr*tive for Mittens that he has no beliefs? as it would be for Bam if his followers were sentient.

If he's actually properly got the nomination now, I wouldn't be surprised to see him down in Zuccotti Park the evening talking to the plain folks.

there is pretty good evidence for the statement 'romney has no real beliefs' outside of possibly mormonism

Well, maybe I could say instead that he presents a more hardened stance in his rhetoric.

btw I think the number of ppl susceptible to "the most important election of your lifetime" has decreased a tad this cycle, haven't seen it anywhere.

Its importance has increased to "most important election since 1860."

Each candidate believes in his own will to power as the will of the universe.

let me guess, Dan: Maddow?

santorum, actually

Romney has a pretty constant core belief, but it's not the kind that will endear you to voters because it's so narrow.

is it the "I should be president" thing?

not really, but that's an offshoot of his "free market i am a business man and basically a little god" mentality.

Also the victimization issue that people were talking about on the other thread. McCain didn't embody this as much. This campaign seems like it will be more paranoid.

romney def believes in the power of business consulting but he's actually kinda bad at being cocky

awesome, i can be first to say

Good Luck, USA

"I am the only person who sees clearly that America's hair is on fire! That is why I feel such urgency to be your president."

"we're sorry senator, you're not allowed to abort your candidacy -- you'll need to carry it to full term"

(xpost) Gingrich may have started the 1860 phrase and Santorum picked up on it, I dunno.

And so now we have Newt Gingrich insisting that 2012 "is the most important election since 1860." And some in the punditocracy go even further; according to columnist E. J. Dionne, "Everyone agrees that the 2012 election will be a turning point involving one of the most momentous choices in American history."

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php?option=com_flexicontent&view=items&id=33338:the-greatest-post-in-all-our-lifetimes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/the-27-point-gender-gap-that-could-decide-the-election/2012/04/10/gIQAlm5E8S_blog.html?wprss=rss_ezra-klein

A wide gender gap underlies the current state of the race. Romney is up eight percentage points among male voters but trails by 19 among women.

2008 gap wuz 13 points

This year has made it pretty clear that the republican party views women as second class citizens, I'm surprised it is not more than 19 points.

the Democratic Party only views non-millionaire women as second-class citizens

Ashley Judd 4 Prez imo

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/04/cain-women-gender-gap-romney-obama.html

men vs. other people

Well, hell _is_ other people, ya know, as the many other people in Cain's life have no doubt proven to him thru litigation of harmless actions and jokes

Romney behind the scenes at Fox

btw I think the number of ppl susceptible to "the most important election of your lifetime" has decreased a tad this cycle, haven't seen it anywhere. Maybe just reserved for use by cable idiots now.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:44 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a putative historian on the internet-talk-show annex of NRO, the hoover institution presents uncommon knowledge with peter robinson, pulled this one a few months ago, cuz this election is america's great choice between Administration & Liberty. i am leaning liberty but idk what if i got sick.

i dunno, the election of 1864 was p. important too

http://i42.tinypic.com/2h890kn.jpg

campaign's not over until someone cries holding a doll iirc

doll is in the hospital iirc

what's going on over there on the right

Five Republicans have filed the necessary papers and $500 fee to qualify for the June 26 Utah presidential primary election, but with Rick Santorum dropping out of the race Tuesday, only four will be on the ballot.

Or possibly three.

Newt Gingrich’s check bounced.

Bah, here's the URL: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/53886982-90/utah-romney-gingrich-campaign.html.csp

well he does have a decent chance of winning your state

latest Elon poll on our anti-gay marriage prop shows 61% opposed - if we don't pass the bill California did I will mail the crow directly to you

The Elon poll doesn't screen out non-voters though - the most recent PPP poll that is a voter poll is a bit more pessimistic:

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/north-carolinians-support-but-dont-understand-marriage-amendment.html

(though there's still room for a little optimism there if the anti-Amendment One can get the message across before May, and the end of the contested GOP primary season will also help, perhaps)

yeah full gay marriage is nowhere close to being legalized in any southern state, but looking at those results 40% of 18-29 y/os in north carolina are for it + 16% for civil unions, which highlights the 'we just gotta wait for old people to die' solution

alternatively we could take away peoples votes after age 50 maybe

Here's to hoping. Meanwhile, in this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/magazine/republicans-who-supported-gay-marriage.html?_r=1&hp

Some (sad) roffles:

I’ve had a few conversations with Long, trying to understand what harm they think they are defending marriage from. In one conversation I recounted my own classic wedding at the Holy Name of Jesus church, and wondered how somebody else’s less conventional marriage could diminish the joy of it.

“Well, I don’t think it hurts anybody,” Long replied, “but I think a society has to have certain standards, and since the beginning of time, marriage has been between a man and a woman.” Marriage, he elaborated, is about children. “You’re not going to procreate children with same-sex couples.”

I told him that would be news to my daughters’ school classmates, the ones with two moms or two dads. And by the way, we don’t prohibit elderly, infertile or just plain procreation-averse couples from marrying.

“I know plenty of gay couples, O.K.?” he snapped back.

Pobrecito.

good morning!

gawker's "fox mole" has been found and fired w/in 24 hours damn

Shit, that was quick. I'm disappointed.

uh surely that was expected

perhaps even desired

ie, you're more likely to get a job somewhere else for being FIRED FROM FOX rather than just being an employee of Fox

http://gawker.com/5901100/i-am-the-fox-mole-and-im-still-here

Just about to post that link. Yeah, as of 13:54 Eastern, dude's still at their desk.

;-)

MAX IS THE MOLE

He joined Fox News years ago on a suicide mission...

that's a long suicide

I suspected when he voted for all those Randite trojan horses in the action-film poll

alternatively we could take away peoples votes after age 50 maybe

lol I would support this

full disclosure, I'd be unable to vote under that rule pretty fucking soon here but if I gotta take one for the team, well, shit, the team looks good to me

If that happened, we old people would take to the streets and engage in a vicious campaign of pie-flinging and gurning until our civil rights were restored.

btw aero I webmailed you about something, dunno if you check that email

you'd still get a senior's discount at Shoney's iirc

We'd jape at every infant in a pram until it cried in terror.

Allan West says some things.

The conservative tea party icon also got in shots at Democrats and President Obama, who spoke Tuesday at Florida Atlantic University. West said Obama was "scared" to have a discussion with him. He later said "he's heard" up to 80 U.S. House Democrats are Communist Party members, but wouldn't name names.

At the first of two campaign town-hall events in Martin County on Tuesday, the Plantation Republican told a New Hope Fellowship Church crowd it'd be disingenuous to pretend he knows everything about the area, but said he supports local projects like inlet dredging. But he contended that big national issues, such as gas prices, turn out to be the most important locally.

"I understand everything about the (St. Lucie) Inlet. I already represent 70 to 75 miles of coastline. Plenty of inlets, plenty of ports. I got it," West said. "I understand about the (St. Lucie) river situation. I understand about (Lake) Okeechobee. But it won't mean a hill of beans if the United States of America goes from $15.6 trillion in debt to $26 trillion in debt."

Translation: "I don't know shit about your district but I can't wait to be your FOX News commentator."

"Plantation Republican"

can I just

Current headline at latimes.com:

"Romney says he and Santorum will come together"

He later said "he's heard" up to 80 U.S. House Democrats are Communist Party members, but wouldn't name names.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaTbErVDQ40

btw aero I webmailed you about something, dunno if you check that email

I don't remember getting it - if you used the ilx link, that goes to a box I don't use. I'll send you something through here -

which may not have worked either, let me know we'll figure it out

hmm not seeing it. uh it's quick I'll fb msg you.

lol are we friends there, I'm sick & drugged up and have zero idea what your government name is tbh

no we aren't you have to accept the req i just sent. uh it's...related to my username.

sdrawkcab

I am too doped up on cold meds to make the "iatee is _______?" joke I wanna make

George Soros?

Sidney Crosby?

man that would be so cool if I were secretly george soros

I have always been hoping to find out that I'm george soros, like I just forgot about it or something

I, Atee

"fuck wow I have a fucking lotta money it seems like, go me"

"weirdly it turns out that i am the satanic enemy of right-wing christian america."

well I am they just don't know who I am and I don't have any money

*head spins around, vomits money*

romneys no its obama whos waging the real war on women attack is hilarious and sad

"I like the way this [redacted] thinks!!"

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l04aqjMzlY1qb7hn5o1_400.jpg

uhhhhh

Ooops, if I did, it was by complete accident.

haha okay that's kinda funny then

I had always thought your name was some sort of vowel joke I didn't get, like "seven ate nine!" but with letters.

lol

my name is a vowel joke I don't even get

: D

Ha, yeah, I thought the same thing as beachville. Didn't realize that sdrawkcab would actually be sdrawrof.

u broke the code

not general election, but i just got an email from the e. warren campaign that she walloped scott brown in Q1 fundraising (though his bankroll is obv bigger) and she's currently leading him by about a point past margin of error

are you sure it was past the margin of error?

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/poll-elizabeth-warren-takes-one-point-lead-over

Isn't that part of the "general" election? The presidential election is the name of the big bore.

xp

In the past we have had a separate thread for all the House and Senate races

I don't care either way if someone wants to start one

i really like the campaign she's running - she's putting the screws to brown w/o coming off as especially petty. the grassroots fundraising and organization are really top notch, taking a page from bama '08 but w/ (actually sincere) populist messages at the core. although i could have done without the 'trip to the aqaurium' email w/ her grandkids' email.

she's the only candidate i've ever given $$ who doesn't rep me directly

it's a weird election for me inasmuch as i've known brown (personally) for a long, long time and respect him as a person but hate him as a politician. warren drives me bonkers as a person, but i couldn't have a higher esteem for her politically, so...

interesting, how do you know him remy?

boy scouts
selectman in my childhood hometown
we share a mechanic
met him a million times growing up
my dad and he hung out in the early '80s

do you think your mechanic is the type of person who can 'make mistakes' for the right amount of money?

i probably don't have the right amount of money, unless it's fallen under the driver's seat. plus, i really like him! he gave me a banana split one time (not a sex joke) and i think he drove me home from soccer practice. elizabeth warren came into a store i worked in ca. .09 and ordered very complicated business cards at two minutes past closing time.

is that the sum total of "drives me bonkers as a person"?

Not all of it. Her affect is sometimes haughty Cambridgey-Fancy-Scarf-Lady, and some other times a little transparently calculated. But, as I said earlier, I've got immense respect for her work, her intellect, her campaign, and I do like her brand of populism.

he gave me a banana split one time (not a sex joke) and i think he drove me home from soccer practice.

Somehow I imagine this docudrama minifilm starring Will Ferrell.

"Plantation Republican"

can I just

― i love the large auns pictures! (Phil D.), Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah. people who insist on calling Allen West a "Plantation Republican" are just as bad as old politicians who throw around the word "niggardly" and then go "what? what? it doesn't have anything to do with the n-word!" imo

(I don't expect everyone on ILX to agree with me abt this)

No but see he's actually FROM Plantation, FL. It just results in crazy awkwardness.

I know that. and niggardly doesn't actually have anything to do with the n-word. you can say "Republican from Plantation." don't say "Plantation Republican."

"Florida republican" should be pejorative enough

no more pejorative than "Florida Democrat"

can we all just agree that the word 'florida' taints any noun that follows it

"The state with the prettiest name" – Elizabeth Bishop

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTAzMzc0NTQ3ODBeQTJeQWpwZ15BbWU2MDQwNDEzNg@@._V1._SY314_CR15,0,214,314_.jpg

like hell will I agree with that

when can we finally make Puerto Rico and Cuba states?

when they learn to speak american

Flo Rida Republican

Wait wait wait, somebody besides me is from Plantation, Florida?? I've seriously spent my whole life undoing people's confusion when they see my place of birth written as PLANTATION on a form. It's like when I lived on a street that was just named BOULEVARD.

Plantation is only thirty miles away from me. Whole lotta nuthin'.

up to 80 U.S. House Democrats are Communist Party members

Communists are only scary to old people.

might wanna check the hubbub outside the Miami baseball stadium to verify

The only hubbub is seniors trying to find a parking space before they give up and park illegally again.

there are a limited number of early bird specials available, i'll have you know

http://www.gonomad.com/lodgings/0906/kapama-images/vulture.jpg

I can't emebed any of the photos of everyone in the parking lot screaming about Ozzie Guillen and Hitler, so...

http://latinorebels.com/2012/04/11/video-from-ozzie-guillen-protest-in-miami/

Guillen protesters are either 60 or Miami Herald columnists.

(housekeeping note: i'm kinda in favor of just having this be a big free-for-all rest-of-2012 politics thread. separate threads for congress and general stuff seems like a recipe for duplication. "election season" tends to warp everything else around it. the presidential race promises to be only not-boring in how annoying it is anyway)

oh I think we're in a for a very lolz-y prez campaign

(...but also maintain a politics thread that's actual about the important shit that goes on instead of the duopoly horse race.)

xp

yeah, who cares

is that what i said? no, it isn't

yeah we still have the gen politics thread

I thought you were asking if we should split up the horseraces

I dunno, goole – it looks like a snooze.

that's what i said!

(l-r: obama, romney)

http://files.myopera.com/edwardpiercy/blog/Duck-Soup-Mirror-Scene-2.JPG

oh ok I reread it

or l-r: gore, bush amirite lol

meh, it will get way more fun when the economy re-tanks in the fall

We will then rely on you to prop it up. Don't ask me how.

Rabbit season

Now this is good--we have a Silly Controversy to distract from Presidential Evil that everyone can Weigh In On:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRjdNKsdR58

She seems sincere--she looked right into the camera.

The B____ Who Used to Run the Music Industry

Wow, I didn't know any of that RIAA stuff. I watched a lot of her in '08. I have something of a crush on her. I don't know if she's ready to switch teams, though.

just a teeny taste for Shakey on how Team Bam can lose the election

haha waht

this is nothing, a 24-hr newscycle blip of no consequence

many more nothings to come

also totally unrelated to "Team Bam". why anybody cares what Hilary Rosen thinks about Romney is a bit of a mystery, beyond the most cynical explanation that this has all just been a trumped-up non-controversy for a slow news day

More! I'm dying of boredom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sIeIcOo4rg

haha yes this thing 99% of our country is not paying attention to will surely be Obama's undoing!

I always suspected Morbz was the 1%

I mean STUFF LIKE THIS. You know, rich Hollywood dyke opens her mouth, inserts condescending foot.

I knew it was a mistake to come back.

you were gone?

you were gone?

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:11 PM (49 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think he's referring to his Lenten fast

pretty sure nothing like this will come out of the Obama campaign. Much less the endless stream of similar nothings that would be required to reverse Romney and the GOP's deep structural problems.

Romney's been fucked from the start. I should've started taking cash bets from all you fools over a year ago.

nobody except music and/or politics nerds knows or cares who Hillary Rosen is. and this won't change.

ha morbs gimme a break. your ODS is getting as bad as the rightwingers i read for fun. "rich hollywood dyke" eh?

speaking of taking a beating tho:

matt stoller on two primaries lost big by progressives

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/04/internet-democrats-take-a-beating-in-illinois.html

he draws on two other reports, grim/terkel on illinois:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/ilya-sheyman-illinois-congress-progressives_n_1372454.html?ref=politics

...and the rothenberg report on maryland

http://rothenbergpoliticalreport.com/news/article/maryland-primary-boosts-democratic-prospects

p interesting in both cases

I have to assume Morbius isn't versed in the details of this, else he'd (surprise) be all over Obama.

1) What Rosen initially said was rational and fair, if politically clumsy;
2) Obama's side has rushed in to denounce (or renounce, or condemn--I forget the exact protocol) her, for reasons that are probably 10% honorable (wives and family should be off-limits, stay-at-home wives do no "not work") and 90% running for cover.

And yes, it'll probably all be forgotten by Monday.

ABC News reporter, wiping slobber from chin, said, "Ann Romney, Governor Romney's secret weapon, is a secret no more."

Lol yeah this is less than nothing. A personal attack that will be rather weakly blown up to fill otherwise dead air.

I've been pretending that I think this whole thing is nothing, because I don't want everyone jumping on me for thinking it's something. But, as always, I think some of the substance is pretty interesting (not any impact on the election, which of course is non-existent).

1) Does Ann Romney being rich preclude her from speaking out about (or understanding) economic anxiety?
2) Once she does, is it okay for Rosen to ridicule her?

It's also spilled over into Rosen's sexuality and the Catholic League and adoption: http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/is-this-all-there-is-war-on-moms-adoptive-parents-define-campaign-news-day-1.php. Those of you who hate all this will applaud Alec MacGillis's piece:

Apparently, we’re supposed to shrug at all this, roll with it. Deny or complain about the reality of the modern news cycle, and you’re a nostalgic prude. But I’m willing to suffer that label. This stuff is ridiculous, and I’ve been through enough of these campaigns to know that it’s getting worse. When the possible future First Lady, a woman who by most reports is as dignified as they come, is dragooned into setting up a Twitter account late on a weekday night so she can tweet her outrage over a line spoken on a news network no one watches, and her grown sons then chime in with their own go-mom tweets, and the rest of us get breathless ("game on!")—well, it’s time to pause for at least a millisecond and recognize that while this is how it is, it doesn’t have to be this way. We do still have personal agency. We can shut it off, put it down, and get the nail clipper.

1) Does Ann Romney being rich preclude her from speaking out about (or understanding) economic anxiety?

It didn't prevent Eleanor Roosevelt. But Ann Romney lacks Mrs. Roosevelt's curiosity (evident even in the twenties and early thirties). As for Rosen, she proved she's an amateur by making a remark that thousands of bloggers left and right would turn into front page news. When you're working for the frontrunner that's not what you do.

she is not working for the frontrunner

1) Does Ann Romney being rich preclude her from speaking out about (or understanding) economic anxiety?

no. it does, however, give others due cause to doubt her ability to really understand the economic concerns of the poor and middle class.

2) Once she does, is it okay for Rosen to ridicule her?

sure. but it's also okay for others to take offense at that ridicule.

I loved this:

Barbara Bush joined in the chorus of those defending Ann Romney today, saying on Fox News that “five boys is a handful, trust me. Raising George Walker was not easy.”

Mom and Obama united as to who's really to blame.

wasn't Ann Romney in Throw Momma from the Train?

btw the #AskRomney hashtag on twitter is full of cheap, obvious lulz, but lulz nonetheless.

#AskRomney when you saw the Trayvon Martin story on the news, how surprised were you that black people still exist

#askromney how many people say ritt momney on accident?

#AskRomney Why didn't you become Batman? You have enough money to be Batman. Are you afraid to be Batman?

#AskRomney a/s/l?

#AskRomney Which days in her life did Ann Romney work? Please specify

#AskRomney If I put on the sunglasses Rowdy Roddy Piper gave me, will you look like an alien?

btw how many Pavlovian base bonus pts for both "Hilary" and "Rosen"?

Show us on your abacus.

http://www.catsafterme.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/vincent2.jpg

every story/tweet ive seen abt this is the press complaining abt the presses frivolousness in reporting it, like guys you dont have to talk abt it you know

let's get back to the dog on Mittens' car roof

thats least funny, the dog pooped all over the car

btw morbs i think you should agree to do some sort of penance if obama wins and the economy doesnt implode, like eat a keyboard key or something, think abt it

wait, so did Hillary Rosen tell Ann Romney to go home and get her fucking shinebox or something?!?

mitt said he consults anne re economy and this lady on the tv who doesnt work for obama but maybe has some ties to the dnc said basically wtf does anne romney know abt the economy shes never had a job

btw morbs i think you should agree to do some sort of penance if obama wins and the economy doesnt implode, like eat a keyboard key or something, think abt it

― lag∞n, Thursday, April 12, 2012

now what shall you eat I wonder

are you taking sides here al you think obamas gonna lose

prob. has a lot of experience hiring and firing interior designers and whatnot

are you taking sides here al you think obamas gonna lose

― lag∞n, Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:02 PM

He'll likely win but the economy's going under again in the next five years at most. Europe is at best unsettled, we've imposed no meaningful regulation on Wall Street, the JOBS Act is a joke, and income inequality is worse than it was under Bush ten years ago.

lol five years ill mark that prediction on my calendar

here hold my marker

you should maybe go for like 8 youre p much guaranteed to get a recession during that period

lagoon: i know what Hillary Rosen said. i was making a joke b/c Phil D posted a pic of Billy Batts from goodfellas.

ah lol that makes sense

i think you should agree to do some sort of penance if obama wins and the economy doesnt implode

I've never predicted either will/won't happen. In the first case, I don't care.

When she was prez of RIAA, the station mgr of WFMU reg called Rosen 'The Worst Woman in the World.'

I was riffing on Alfred's "show us on your abacus." Went with the wiseguy joke instead of the lol old joke. What a disaster.

lol five years ill mark that prediction on my calendar

That prediction was actually rather restrained and conservative. I would endorse it without much trepidation.

seeing as rescissions happen like every 6 years its not any sort of meaningful prediction was my point

I am willing to bet against a recession this year, I'll bet you a beer morbs

seeing as rescissions happen like every 6 years its not any sort of meaningful prediction was my point

― lag∞n, Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:52 PM

I hope you're right but you're not, as Cliff said to Clair Huxtable.

what am i not right abt here alfred

Distinctions between "recession" and "downturn" or b/w "slower recovery than expected" and "it will remain shitty" are meaningless when we've done little to prevent the spiral from starting again.

your argument is extremely vague!

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Aug/Jobs-Loss-Recovery-1.png

"recession" is the least of our worries when predatory lending continues and regulation of the financial sector is nominal at best

the gray parts are recessions

thats all fine and good al but then what are you predicting will happen in the next five years exactly

recession has a very strict definition alfred, and it's not 'the least of our worries'

"exactly"? We're not economists. Like I said, I'll take a recession over another crash.

what in particular are you predicting

that the economy is no longer in a "recession" means bloody little to the long-term un(der)employed.

I'm heartened that companies are hiring again but I remain depressed about a banking system that was neither disciplined by DC nor learned nothing about what happened in 2008, which makes another meltdown inevitable.

you mean a melt down on par w/the one we just had, another 'great recession'

no it means plenty to the un and underemployed, because there is a big difference between 8% unemployment and 13% unemployment eisber, even if you are currently unemployed

and anyone who believes that Obama's "populism" is anything but crude electioneering intended to keep the dirty hippies quiet is a fool.

Pundits say "recession" because they're afraid of the implications of "depression" or, my favorite 19th century word, "panic."

no pundits say recession because it is a word with a precise and useful definition

I don't know what we're arguing about! You don't agree that circumstances are in place for a crash at least as bad as 2008's?

no it means plenty to the un and underemployed, because there is a big difference between 8% unemployment and 13% unemployment eisber, even if you are currently unemployed

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/015/orly.jpg

yes -- pundits, whom we should praise for their precise and useful definitions, especially when they're on cable television!

that's why we are hearing all of these stories about "unemployed need not apply" and rampant age discrimination in hiring ...

yall can free associate w/the best of em, YOU should be on cable news

but hey, silly me, i'm old enough to remember a day when Democratic politicians actually gave a shit about the long-term unemployed (or at least went through the motions of doing so) -- that was before "change we can believe in," though.

sure but thats not what we were talking abt at all

yeah also that was before republicans took control of congress

that is still the best looking owl ever. i wish he was a ice cream because i would eat him.

that's why we are hearing all of these stories about "unemployed need not apply" and rampant age discrimination in hiring ...

― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Thursday, April 12, 2012 9:07 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you can create whatever law you want but if people are gonna discriminate in hiring there's no way you can 'know they did it'

This started because you picked on Morbs about Obama and the economy as if the implication was that either our economic health depended on Obama's reelection or that we should reward Obama because we're not losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month like in 2009. If voters decided on the latter, that's fine, but it's no reason to be sanguine. If I'm wrong, please correct me -- no snark.

i picked on morbs be cause he predicted the economy would bottom out before the election and obama would lose!

I don't think this has anything to do with obama? it's just not likely that the economy is gonna crash this year.

this is a classic liberal argument

Liberal #1: Things are shitty!

Liberal #2: Things have always been shitty. People are shitty. What can you do?

(walk silently to voting booth)

i think that prediction was like republicans who say obama is a muslim. it's more about expressing his annoyance than actually predicting anything

you can create whatever law you want but if people are gonna discriminate in hiring there's no way you can 'know they did it'

um, i've had fellow lawyer friends who are making a good living going after companies who discriminate in hiring, firing and other employment practices.

(exit PAUL KRUGMAN, scarf blowing in the wind)

i just thought its was a really silly prediction is all, there was NO value judgement attached

well maybe more lawyers is the solution to our economic problems then

for the record, i don't expect an economic crash ... or even a downturn ... by Election Day. but who the fuck knows, esp given what's happening in Europe.

they know how to throw parties!

xpost

and even if things don't turn to shit by November 2012 that doesn't mean they won't turn to shit sometime thereafter since (as Alfred noted) we've done precious little to stop the financial industry from engaging in the types of shenanigans that caused the 2008 financial crash in the first place.

he predicted the economy would bottom out before the election and obama would lose!

didn't!

But yes we are going to have an apocalyptic crash in the next decade, and you can blame all the cocksuckers in both partee.

and to repeat myself: anyone who expects anyone in the Obama Administration to do so is deluded. stating that "Romney will be worse" is not much of a counterargument.

for the record, i don't expect an economic crash ... or even a downturn ... by Election Day. but who the fuck knows, esp given what's happening in Europe.

― kurwa mać (Polish for "long life") (Eisbaer), Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:15 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

europe is not gonna let greece et al default on their debt, they know it would be catastrophic, theyre just gonna do other less dumb things instead

Europe should force Greek men to work and let the women hang out in cafes and smoke.

didn't!

But yes we are going to have an apocalyptic crash in the next decade, and you can blame all the cocksuckers in both partee.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:18 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

meh, it will get way more fun when the economy re-tanks in the fall

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 12, 2012 12:57 PM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

just a teeny taste for Shakey on how Team Bam can lose the election

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:54 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is nothing, a 24-hr newscycle blip of no consequence

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:58 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

many more nothings to come

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 12, 2012 5:59 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

unless of course Spain and Italy collapse and then I'm not sure they can really do anything at all xposts

man those responses are like samples in a Steinski track

the prediction of economic collapse in the fall is there for all to see, the prediction of obamas loss is i admit only implied but if there one example of how obama can lose the election that will be followed by many more of them its stands to reason that they will add up to a loss CASE CLOSED

unless of course Spain and Italy collapse and then I'm not sure they can really do anything at all xposts

― stay in school if you want to kiw (Gukbe), Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:23 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

obvs this stuff is v complex and i dont have a super good handle on it but its my understanding that its generally thought to be within the eu's power to prevent a total meltdown

going back to the Anne Romney thing

1) Does Ann Romney being rich preclude her from speaking out about (or understanding) economic anxiety?

The "she's never worked a day in her life" thing is terrible and stupid, BUT Anne Romney also reminds me of that scene in Sex and the City 2 where Charlotte is bitching about how her kid ruining her fancy dress and wondering how people raise children without full time help.

I'm not saying that raising five kids isn't tough, but it's a hell of lot easier if you have an incredible amount of money and resources and presumably hired help to clean the mansion. She doesn't know what its like to raise five kids on a median income, or share a car with the husband or wonder how you're going to stretch your shopping budget to feed growing children.

I don't like the comments and obviously they were politically stupid, but somebody should raise the point much more loudly that her husband is talking about defunding Planned Parenthood from the federal level, there have been hearings about women's health coverage, and on a state level a slew of these personhood and ultrasound laws as well as repealing certain rights for women to get Equal Pay. The media finds Anne to be likeable and 'sympathetic' (for whatever reason she deserves sympathy other than being married to Mitt), but somebody should call her out on distorting the reality of what's going on with women right now by saying the "real war" is by Obama by not giving them jobs. It's utterly reprehensible.

i'm no expert either, but from my understanding it's not as simple as "we'll bail them out" because at some point it can get so bad that there's just not enough money for the EU to do that. keep in mind that by "the EU" we generally mean Germany right now. Greece is having trouble getting the austerity measures through that the bailout requires, and Italy's political troubles and economic issues have just last week created a lot more tensions. If the Greece bailout once again fails, its not out of the question that there'll be a domino effect. The EU never had contingencies for if someone left the Euro, and if that happens you're looking at not only a panic but a hell of a rough transition. I'm not saying "Weimar Germany" or anything but that result is not totally out of the question.

xpost

lag∞n, i mean everything i post just as much as you do. Christ on the cross, I save my sincerity for important shit like the comedy canon, not the unavoidable fall of the American empire.

it was all fun and games until Apatow came along

also Obama is running against a zillionaire Fred Willard imitator who makes John Kerry look like FDR

SCREEN DOOR CLOSED

why does it matter whether ann romney ever held a real job or not? most employed ppl don't know anything about how the economy works.

most successful businessmen don't either tbf

SHHHHHHHH

next you'll be telling me Bloomberg's wealthperience didn't pull NYC out of the shitter

if anything, not working and having someone take care of your domestic stuff probably frees up enough time to survey economic theory

"rosa, can you take the kids to the park? Martin Wolf just published a book..."

enough time to survey economic theory

...especially when taking up heavy drinking is not allowed by your religion.

lag∞n, i mean everything i post just as much as you do. Christ on the cross, I save my sincerity for important shit like the comedy canon, not the unavoidable fall of the American empire.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Thursday, April 12, 2012 10:43 PM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i was just messin w/you morbs, dont worry im not gonna hold you to that prediction

i do think you should eat yr keyboard tho, just because

doc forbade qwerty

lol

gubke yaeh things can obvs spiral out of control but my reading of the situation is that a messy divorce is unlikely, tho in the long term imho itd be good to get rid of the euro in some orderly fashion that doesnt ruin the world economy if at all possible, either that or make the e.u. more like an irl country, cause what they got now dont make no sense, also i feel like its fundamentally wrong how even tho spains economy is weak i still cant go there eat their hams for cheap, worst of both worlds really

the great jamon crisis is deserving of its own thread

otm

i can't believe a pundit on tv said something controversial. this changes everything.

the allan west thing was obviously a lame "dad" joke. actually the timing was pretty good.

I dunno, it took a looongg time. I think he was pausing for effect and then was surprised by how long the crowd murmured. When he finally said it he didn't even say it very loudly.

The media finds Anne to be likeable and 'sympathetic' (for whatever reason she deserves sympathy other than being married to Mitt), but somebody should call her out on distorting the reality of what's going on with women right now by saying the "real war" is by Obama by not giving them jobs. It's utterly reprehensible.

Romney's (i.e., Anne's) health issues obviously figure into the media's treatment of her, and just in general (as long as their "wifely," and don't speak out too much) wives get treated well by the media. Rosen wasn't very artful, but I think calling Romney out was exactly what she was trying to do.

Or not. As someone who of course has 100% faith in Obama's genius at the political long-game, I think the whole episode was engineered so he'd have a chance to rush in and magnanimously defend stay-at-home moms.

"They're," not "their." Teacher.

Why can't this just be a personal attack? Why does it have to turn in to a serious discussion on the role of women as perceived by The Mets vs. The Yankees?

Plus, yeah, Anne raising 5 kids is a full time job. FOR YOUR NANNY

nannies

i did a lot of research on this yesterday and as far as i can tell the romneys never hired a nanny

gdamn it

au pairs?

satellite bigamy wives?

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/26495387/Au+Pairs+the.jpg

nanny or no, the crucial distinction is between a single working mother trying to raise kids on her own and a married woman whose husband is so wealthy that she never even had to consider working outside the home. it's not unreasonable to suggest that the latter might lack insight into the concerns of and issues facing the former.

yeah well she is not gonna be president and this is just a game

John Dickerson tries to quantify controversies on a four-point scale:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/04/ann_romney_and_umbrage_the_four_kinds_of_campaign_controversies_and_which_ones_actually_matter_.html

Yesterday's Rosen/Romney whatever, which most people here dismissed, is a level 2 ("frivolous and noteworthy"); Obama's Russian live mic from last week, which even more people here dismissed, is awarded a level 4 ("serious and noteworthy"). My point: no one's going to agree on which of these things mean anything.

thanks!

They are all little points of light that dot the void.

i heard mitt romney was cuaght masterbating on a hotel balcony in connecticut.

That's a level 3: "serious but unimportant."

the whole dumbass megillah: hopeless but not serious

Connecticut's solidly blue these days. If it had been an Ohio balcony, level 4.

So sad when the only place you can masturbate in peace is a hotel balcony. And even then you don't get any privacy!

pictures plz

Reasons given in News Hour piece for the Republican primary challenge to Dick Lugar's senate seat in Indiana: he voted for the debt ceiling increase, the auto bailout, and the two Obama Supreme Court nominees.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/hist151/French%20Revolution%20II/album/slides/execution%20Robespierre.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/MatsterMitt.png

I've been checking all over this morning, and I have to say that I find the conspiracy of silence surrounding the Romney masturbation story very troubling--especially in light of the documentation above.

obvs this kind of post modern approach has been employed before but im not sure its a tactic you really want to lean on, strange times http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/republicans-recite-dem-attack-lines----with-little-hope-of-success.php

Yeah I don't think so:

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio's push for a Republican version of immigration legislation looks like the answer to the GOP's — namely Mitt Romney's — election-year prayers.

Rubio is the telegenic son of Cuban exiles and a potential vice presidential pick. He is pulling together a bill that would allow young illegal immigrants to remain in the United States but denies them citizenship.

... why do we need a bill for that

legalized apartheid/american Gastarbeiter = NAGL

sign of our times that a "moderate/thoughtful" Republican thinks that our immigration policies should resemble those of Dubai.

what a bizarrely written article

every paragraph has something about the what this bill will do for the political fortunes of the GOP, a) that's totally fucked up and b) they're all wrong anyway

there is nothing at all about what is even in this bill. the 2nd page is how furious the anti-immigrant part of the GOP is already. jesus the AP is garbage

haa oh it's a "work-in-progress"?

Opponents of Rubio's work-in-progress already have appealed to their rank-and-file members to contact the senator and express their opposition.

Numbers USA, which wants to reduce the number of legal and illegal immigrants, provided talking points to their nearly 1 million members.

"It is downright appalling that you are working on a DREAM Act amnesty. There is no difference between giving illegal aliens citizenship and giving them an amnesty. They would still be able to compete against unemployed Americans for jobs! You need to drop this plan presto!" the group said.

imagine the temptation they had to say "pronto" right there

hahaha I thought you were exaggerating

goole OTM. This is written by an apparatchik with a boner for Rubio.

lol here's all they say about the bill:

Rubio, who notably called on his party to tone down the anti-immigrant talk earlier this year, is working on a plan that would allow young illegal immigrants who came to the United States with their parents to apply for non-immigrant visas. They would be permitted to stay in the country to study or work, could obtain a driver's license but would not be able to vote. They later could apply for residency, but they would not have a special path to citizenship.

"Mommy and daddy have to go back home, but you can stay here and sweep floors."

uh so his plan is to basically call off the ICE dogs and tell "young" people to call a consulate? man who could have a problem with that.

Rubio — telegenic son

he's a chubby fuck

Maybe they all just need to read this. Or maybe 'Job Creating' isn't as big a priority as Immigrant Hating.

Immigrants Founded Half Of Top U.S. Start-Up Companies: Study
First Posted: 12/21/11 08:51 AM ET Updated: 12/21/11 10:17 PM ET

Immigrants founded or cofounded almost half of 50 top venture-backed companies in the United States, a new study shows, underscoring some of the high stakes in potential immigration reform.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/21/immigrants-startups_n_1162590.html

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/04/down-the-memory-hole-romney-calls-kris-kobach-just-a-supporter.php

ha maybe this is paving the way for rubio after all

what none of these articles ever mention is that anti-immigrant sentiment cuts up dems as much as it does the republicans.

"both candidates have a good bit of upside potential"

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/17/150815242/the-obama-romney-poll-a-palooza-whats-it-mean

"upside potential" – dear god in heaven I'm happy for Orwell's sake that he's dead.

"potential upside" wouldn't upset you, would it? Possibly redundant but a common sports term, so cozily at home in politocs.

http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2012/04/four-recent-national-polls-inc.php

Ron Brownstein:

Even with their modest variations, these four surveys paint a similar picture. Obama is largely holding the minority and college-educated white women who comprise two pillars of the modern Democratic base (along with young people.) But he is facing erosion among blue-collar white men and struggling to maintain even his modest 2008 support among the two swing quadrants in the white electorate: the college-plus white men and non-college white women.

For the moment, that division of allegiances is enough to provide Obama an overall advantage (he would lead slightly even in the Gallup track if the minority share of the vote was adjusted to its level in 2008). But it's not enough of an edge for him to breathe easy-and the fact that most of the white electorate is resisting him at least as much as it did in 2008 suggests he may never entirely get to such a comfortable place before November, even if he remains ahead overall

that's a pretty reasonable and informative article

xp

Brownstein's? He's one of the better political journalists.

him too but i meant the npr one

I skimmed the NPR and its basic point is exactly right, I thought: this is inevitably going to be close, and the idea that Obama is up by 9 (like in the CNN poll) is silly.

of course it's going to be close

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin

pop vote margin doesn't mean anything much, of course

e.g. Nixon barely won it in '68 but took the electoral college rather handily

yup and the gop has a pretty basic advantage w/ the math, it usually doesn't matter but when it did, it did

national polls aren't measuring the electoral college, so what are we talking about

we're talking about an article summarizing the polls and what pollsters think about them which is: they mean not very much right now

right the polls that are way to early to be very meaningful are about the popular vote and the popular vote is almost always v close

"potential upside" wouldn't upset you, would it? Possibly redundant but a common sports term, so cozily at home in politocs.

― World Congress of Itch (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:06 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yup

if the popular vote is always close then it's not always close u know

woah

I feel like I just took the red pill

When I said it's bound to be close, I meant electorally, not the popular vote--as in, this is going to be a close election period. I really do believe that. I know Romney has a ton of weaknesses, but Obama's approval has been bouncing around between 45-50 for months now; that seems fixed in place, and I can't see it producing anything but a close electoral election.

hell prob win by roughly how much he beat mccian, which is only close if you're basing it on some random idea of what close means

nooo way he'll win w/ that margin

more like bush 2004 I think

He could win by that much, but I don't see it as probable given that he's Reality Obama instead of Changemaker '08. His youthful acolytes, deep down, know he's an asshole.

It depends how deeply Team Mittens puts their hands in the woodchipper.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html

every 4 years I start paying attention to stuff like this^ and it feels about the same as unlocking a new media experience for a JJ Abrams movie

"Deep Down, You Know He's an Asshole"

I look at that electoral map linked to above, and I think it would only take a mediocre jobs report or two to send most of those toss-up states Romney's way. But then you have to balance that with how weak/unliked Romney is at present.

there are not very many unemployed, undecided voters in ohio closely following month to month macroeconomic data

It depends how deeply Team Mittens puts their hands in the woodchipper.

I'm gonna guess up to at least the elbows

after which they will just attach a new pair of bajillion dollars Robomormon hands

there are not very many unemployed, undecided voters in ohio closely following month to month macroeconomic data

That's hardly what I meant. Mediocre jobs report = more people without jobs = what used to be a toss-up no longer a toss-up.

well I think the bigger thing is that they're just in a permanent state of 'toss-up' because we're concerned w/ what will happen in nov not what would happen if every state voted today. there is good reason to believe that peoples opinion of romney will sour after half a year of him on tv every day and there is some reason to believe that the economy will be a bit better in nov. those two trends are more important than any swing state poll can be today.

it's important to highlight how few people follow politics to the extent we do, even today the 'average american' knows very little about romney

they know he's a bajillionaire and a mormon

that's probably about it

there is good reason to believe that peoples opinion of romney will sour after half a year of him on tv every day and there is some reason to believe that the economy will be a bit better in nov

You can also say the opposite, and about Obama - and I'm not being contrarian. If you're unemployed in Akron and voted for Obama in '08 it's possible that you're sick of seeing him on the teevee.

yeah but that's something that's already true for a lot of people and is 'in the numbers' in a way that peoples future dislike of romney is not

Not that I have too much faith in this kind of forecasting this far out, but the RCP method strikes me as pretty goofy and susceptible... like, Georgia for example, their average puts Romney +12, but that's because they're averaging the two polls where Romney is the furthest ahead, one of which is from December and presumably not very useful at all. The one that gives Romney the smallest advantage (+3) they don't include in the average, for reasons that escape me - maybe it's explained somewhere. Anyway, basically it's an average of only two polls. Not to say Obama has any prospect of winning Georgia (it went McCain 52-47 in Obama's surge election) but you know what I'm getting at.

One thing I often hear on TV (from all of Alfred's favourite people) is that impressions of the economy tend to be frozen in place five or six months out from the election--i.e., that some improvement in the late summer/early fall won't mean much. Example: Bush in '92. I don't claim to know whether this is true in general.

Also weird is how all of their grey "toss up states," if you actually click on them, turn out to be Obama states using their math, except for Arizona, Missouri and North Carolina. Presumably there's some other metric involved but it's just odd to me - it's like they think they have this all figured out with the numbers, but they sort of know those results MUST be out of whack because they would turn the whole map blue and it's pretty clear that's not going to happen IRL - - so they turn a bunch of them grey but then it's just like, hey guys, maybe it's too soon to be doing this kind of super-electoral-predicto-map.

the safe bet is to never take anything said about politics on tv to have any value, ever

"frozen in place" probably FAIRLY true? I mean it makes sense to me instinctively, since the actual effect on people's lives of new bad or good news may take a while to really sink in. But it doesn't take long to turn it into an ad ("Well, the latest news is out - let the facts speak for themselves...") so if it fits a larger theme it'll stick.

2008 might be an interesting test case of this, really.

Pundits conflate "the economy" with "my finances." I've been doing better financially the last two years despite the condition of Florida (chaos and disorder, thanks to the most conservative governor in our history) and the uneven national recovery but doing worse during the Bush boom years. That's why Reagan's question in '80 ("Are YOU better off now than you were four years ago?") was sharper than Mark Halperin asking voters "Do you think the economy's improving or getting worse?")

*doing worse = did worse

Probably just as likely that in 6 months everybody will be used to what they dislike about Romney and it won't be as big an issue. And I do think a lot of people vote for "change" when they don't like where they are now, without thinking too much about whether the change will be for the better or for the worse.

massive x-post

the state of conservative coalescence

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/18/the_gop%E2%80%99s_very_peculiar_unity/singleton/

Ehhh - I wouldn't be SO sure? Like, Kerry was the presumptive nominee quite early, didn't mean Bush and Rove weren't able to load up his negatives (by completely making shit up) for the rest of the campaign.

But frankly, in the land of dirty tricks and ratfuckery, what would help Obama most would be to have a shadow operation somehow within the GOP, launching continued volleys at Romney from the right and trying to get them vote for a third-party candidate to "send a message to Washington" about "real conservative values." Forget the independents and keep eroding that soft support he has within his party. My dream is that Newt Gingrich actually will play this role without realizing it, but I realize that people have third-party Republican split fantasies every four years and it never goes anywhere.

Ehhh - I wouldn't be SO sure? Like, Kerry was the presumptive nominee quite early, didn't mean Bush and Rove weren't able to load up his negatives (by completely making shit up) for the rest of the campaign.

well all things considered kerry was probably a 'stronger candidate' than romney is and actually had fewer negatives to exploit...the effect of the swiftboat type stuff was really marginal

but his opponent didn't have to run w/ 8% unemployment

lol @ the mere thought of Change We Can Believe In having a dirty tricks operation at all, much less one in the GOP.

(Iatee,)

Growing up, I'd get pretty excited about NASCAR races. And I still love them. That's why I want to be the one to tell you that the folks planning the 2012 Democratic National Convention have figured out a way for you to show your support -- on a NASCAR stock car.

The convention's host committee is going to debut an official "Powered by the American People" car. And they want to put your name on it.

When you become a sponsor by donating just $5 or more, your name will appear on the car.

For me, this is a no-brainer. All you have to do is tell them how to spell your name, and you're off.

Sponsor the "Powered by the American People" stock car.

Grassroots support is the only way this convention is going to be a success. The 2012 convention will be funded by supporters like you, not special interests, lobbyists or political action committees -- and that's why we're not putting any corporate logos on the car. Just the names of folks like you who step up to make this happen.

The convention is going to kick off with a free Labor Day celebration at the Charlotte Motor Speedway, where everyone who comes out will see the official stock car.

Is your name going to be on it?

https//:charlottein2012.com/Powered_By_the_American_People

Let us know soon.

Messina

Jim Messina
Campaign Manager
Obama for America

"absolutely! my name is 'Liqmi Balszak'"

i'm opting for Heywood Jablome

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/296373/why-romney-has-real-chance-victor-davis-hanson

wow, that was a lot of bullshit piled on top of a couple salient observations about unemployment & voter enthusiasm

I don't mean to hate on Charlotte but fuckin A of all the places in NC to go. Hold the fucking convention at Kill Devil Hills or something. Asheville, try Asheville, plenty of weed in Asheville. Raleigh. Wrightsville Beach. Build a convention hall in Henderson, play a lotta Coltrane at the convention, late spacey shit, it'll be cool. No no underrated A. We gotta go to fucking Charlotte. Things'll be super-cool in Charhttp://www.johnnyblazed.com/Tim%20and%20Me%20pre-fight%20party%20Charlotte%20NC%2012-8-01.jpg

Sort of blows my mind that it's going to be this close between Obama and Romney, solely because Romney is the least human and least empathetic person I have ever seen in my life. It makes sense if you factor in how much Obama threw the Left under a truck.

It makes sense if you factor in how much Obama threw the Left under a truck.

that's really not the issue, the people who're disgusted enough to stay home are extremely low in number. right-wing propaganda machine + few signature accomplishments that can't be framed under multiple narratives + jobs/economy not zipping upwards fast enough for public to feel that Reagan-y sky's-the-limit good feeling = problems for the incumbent imo

Obama will still waste this clown, there will literally be an ad that's just the "corporations are people, my friend" exhange with no other voiceover

aero otm

yeah, it takes a couple hundred words to illustrate Obama's respect for corporate peoplehood.

maybe I will do an Occupy Charlotte trek paired w/ sidetrip to Raleigh! seems like a good week for it.

there will literally be an ad that's just the "corporations are people, my friend" exhange

I would hope so, but I've seen these sorts of golden opportunities overlooked or refused in the past, by candidates I thought would have smarter advisors. At the upper reaches of national campaigns you can't count on anyone knowing what ordinary people care about, except as abstractions based on polling. Obama is too deep in his cocoon by now to be in charge of these decisions. Maybe Howard Dean will be smart enough to do it, but idk.

Howard Dean?? isn't he two chairmen ago?

who keeps track of DNC chairmen?

not me, but he's yesterday's Scream.

yeah, it takes a couple hundred words to illustrate Obama's respect for corporate peoplehood.

this isn't nothing btw.

like, u don't need to be zizek to realize that the subtlety of the case you need to make is correlated to the volume of the crime.

I know, I'm just lamenting

look you guys I agree with you. it's just that Obama is presently in the "to make the case against me, you have to have a few minutes and not be crazy" position. that eliminates most of the people who want to unseat him, since they are of the distracted-by-light-on-a-bumper strain

"8% unemployment"

That's all Romney is gonna say, and that will be enough for some to vote for him.

x-post
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Florida Dem is the current DNC chair.

What makes this a horse race is that a huge proportion of the voting population do not need to hear a reasonable case made against Obama. They will simply rely on their visceral dislike to guide their vote and Romney needs only to feed that dislike by telling them they are right to feel that way.

the distracted-by-light-on-a-bumper strain

are they related to the distracted-by-awesome-hair strain?

yeah, I caught a Bill Maher clip of Debbie Wasserman Schultz doing the Obama-doesn't-REALLY-support-indefinite-detention dance. Vile.

A significant minority are simply not going to vote for a muslim - nothing racist about that.

Wasserman-Schultz is beloved by her constituency. I can't tell her apart from Ros-Lehtinen tbh.

i think when the stakes seem so high ('the most important election of your lifetime!' but also, more seriously, this is the most public, possibly most powerful position in the world) you kinda psychologically want to hedge your bets about what is possible as much as you can. it's tempting to gird yourself for the possibility that romney wins so that you're not in a state of shock and horror if he does. there are probably other good reasons for wanting to see this as a horserace (to make it more exciting? to not make a prediction that makes you look like a fool? out of hope? out of the realization that the world is full of uncertainty and anything could happen). logically, tho, it's hard for me to accept that it's going to be a close election. everything i've learnt about american politics, and observed in my life, suggests that obama is going to win easily such that it'll be hard to believe that anyone thought he might not.

"Against stupidity even the gods contend in vain."

-- Fredrich Schiller --

pretty interesting unemployment post here from a Republican dude who I got googling around about the unemployment trends. I agree that "8%" is going to sound pretty bad, I assume the Obama campaign is going to hijack a little 99% rhetoric & that'll probably be where it happens. OWS ppl will be v. angry about this, there will be much rage in their self-contained circles.

kinda a truth about history is that ahistorical unpredictable events occur all the time, so any kind of prognostication always comes with the caveat, 'assuming a seismic shift in history doesn't change the facts about everything-'

Reagan won with 7% unemployment

(not to be interpreted as an endorsement of Obbie)

yeah because heaven forbid

1983-07-01 9.4
1983-08-01 9.5
1983-09-01 9.2
1983-10-01 8.8
1983-11-01 8.5
1983-12-01 8.3
1984-01-01 8.0
1984-02-01 7.8
1984-03-01 7.8
1984-04-01 7.7
1984-05-01 7.4
1984-06-01 7.2
1984-07-01 7.5
1984-08-01 7.5
1984-09-01 7.3
1984-10-01 7.4
1984-11-01 7.2

vs

2010-08-01 9.6
2010-09-01 9.5
2010-10-01 9.5
2010-11-01 9.8
2010-12-01 9.4
2011-01-01 9.1
2011-02-01 9.0
2011-03-01 8.9
2011-04-01 9.0
2011-05-01 9.0
2011-06-01 9.1
2011-07-01 9.1
2011-08-01 9.1
2011-09-01 9.0
2011-10-01 8.9
2011-11-01 8.7
2011-12-01 8.5
2012-01-01 8.3
2012-02-01 8.3
2012-03-01 8.2

so taking into account where each recession started, obama's recovery is only lagging 0.2 points behind reagan's?

The most shocking thing is there's no "Corporations Are People" auto-tune video on youtube.

nah I didn't even include the peak of the recession in that

afaics, it's a damn miracle we didn't have the Great Depression II when the worldwide housing bubble collapsed. As it stands Europe's still in deep shit, which Obama (and Bernanke) can do nothing about. But a majority of Americans either don't notice or don't care that there is world beyond our borders.

Is there like a "Most Robotic Things Romney Has Said" Top 10 anywhere I can look at for source material?

xxp anyway, still very comparable and we all know how reagan did that election

marking Bam down for 49 states then!

C-3P0 is more convincing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDAZ1dMoxA

i'd guess no just bc i can't imagine that kind of victory for any candidate in 2012, but i think he's got the election locked up. if it turns out i'm wrong, i'll probably be more upset about president romney than about my failure accurately predict the election xp

xxp anyway, still very comparable and we all know how reagan did that election

nah they're not comparable tho!

gdp growth by quarter:
1983:2 10.90
1983:3 6.50
1983:4 7.00
1984:1 7.40
1984:2 5.00
1984:3 2.30

^ this is not happening

ftr 'I think obama will win' and 'I think unemployment will be around 8%'...but if last year looked like 1983, obama would win this by double digits

i think people are underestimating the "hey this isn't exactly how i think it should be i'm voting for the other guy" mentality among the electorate.

paying $4 at the pump, houses still worth less than the mortgages (if they haven't walked away yet), and an employer's market squeezing advancement opportunities/raises/etc.

i think people are underestimating the "hey this isn't exactly how i think it should be i'm voting for the other guy" mentality among the electorate.

look how well it worked for Kerry

A friend just lost his 3rd job in 3 years and is trying to figure out if at-home freelancing is going to pay more than UI ... he's not gonna vote for Mitt, but maybe not O either.

but that was a dissatisfied "anyone but Bush" portion because they paid attention to the war and the politics. I'm talking about people who don't generally give a shit but they just see that they're still in a not-great position financially. xpost

they just see that they're still in a not-great position financially

so they vote for the robot billionaire? makes sense.

after it became apparent that neither Gingrich nor Santorum were going to be the GOP nominee, i resolved that unless it's obvious that it's going to be too close for comfort, then i am not voting for President at all.

so lol disgruntled liberal at me all you like.

well if obama can't win nj he can't win the general election anyway so don't overthink it

what i mean is, i would've voted for Obama again if either Santorum or Gingrich were nominated only in the spirit of "Hindenburg v. Hitler" or a "Chirac v. Le Pen" b/c Gingrich or Santorum were exactly that bad. but since it's Obama and Romney, i really don't give a fuck which of those two corporate suck-ups wins.

if you're hungry and the choice is between more gruel, less gruel, or nothing at all, then you should ask for more gruel, even if you find the gruel itself difficult to get down.

unless you're in new jersey

the gruelest state

except that neither Obama nor Romney are "more gruel" candidates.

I don't think you actually understood Aimless's post

so they vote for the robot billionaire? makes sense.

that's my point. there's no logic to it, other than "this guy isn't working for me i'll try the other guy."

also if it were santorum or gingrich i might not have bothered voting but Romney is pretty much everything I really can't stand in the world all wrapped up in one person. no matter how much they both grovel to the corporations, Obama isn't Romney.

oh, i understood it well enough. i'm just not eager to do the "lesser of two evils" thing (of which Aimless's post is a variant) any more unless it's absolutely necessary. gruel is still gruel.

i'm going to proudly vote for obama just to give the middle finger to holier-than-thou ilxors

in fact, for each ilxor who posts here that they're sitting out this election, i'm going to make another campaign call in PA on election day

a vote for Romney would be more effective if that is yer true desire.

holier-than-thou white male ilxors

they need a thread

they've got a board though

excelsior!

bring back Gabbneb if you want "balance," then. as it is, as long as deej is around there are still doe-eyed Obama groupies around so worry not about me being a grouch.

holier-than-thou white male ilxors

It's precisely when white male voters abstain or vote Romney in sufficient numbers that he could overcome the gender and race gaps and win the election.

once again the fate of the free world rests in the hands of white males!

holier-than-thou ilxors

hey hey my my, liberal bullshit will never die

my my hey hey
it's better to lie down than to post away

out of the Hope and into the bray

hey hey my my, liberal bullshit will never die

wow, a glimmer of self-awareness

Ain't been a liberal since I used the Evil Lessers argument to vote for that pathetic hack Mondale.

i believe you meant haven't, not ain't.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Well, we natter on about whether this or that is racist here all the time, but perhaps keeping one's political hands lilywhite might even end up having an adverse effect on minorities.

right -- if we don't vote the terrorists win.

heard that at least 80 members of congress are communists so I don't know why you guys are so bummed about the state of US politics

let's be real here - of all the people saying they are likely to abstain, Alfred's Floridian vote is ostensibly the only one that could possibly matter

i hope we remember this when if a newly-reelected Obama conveniently forgets about the Buffett Rule and other nice liberal-sounding campaign utterances or decides it's time to slash Social Security and Medicaid. none of that would have an adverse effect on minorities, you know.

i just assumed that secret public republican alfred was going to vote for reaganomney

(sorry to single you out Alfred, but it really doesn't matter who Morbz or I vote for)

xp

dude obama is going to go hardcore socialist if he gets a second term because he doesn't have a re-election to worry about duh

once again the fate of the free world rests in the hands of white males!

― Mordy, Wednesday, April 18, 2012 3:40 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're welcome, guys

*lights pipe* *strokes smug boho beard*

the Buffett Rule and other nice liberal-sounding campaign utterances or decides it's time to slash Social Security and Medicaid

are we pretending that Romney would somehow be better/different in these departments

considering that i'm in a semi-flip state, and that i promised to make campaign calls for every ilxor that abstains from voting for obama, morbz should go vote since he'll be giving more votes to obama by not voting.

Alfred's Floridian vote is ostensibly the only one that could possibly matter

I live in one of the state's bluest counties. Despite the loudness of septuagenarian Cubans, I'll be okay should I do the nasty.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Florida_Presidential_Election_Results_by_County,_2008.svg/250px-Florida_Presidential_Election_Results_by_County,_2008.svg.png

2008

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Florida2004bycounty.PNG/250px-Florida2004bycounty.PNG

2004

the Buffett Rule and other nice liberal-sounding campaign utterances or decides it's time to slash Social Security and Medicaid

are we pretending that Romney would somehow be better/different in these departments

― Jilly Boel and the Eltones (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, April 18, 2012 5:05 PM (53 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

no, but that's exactly my point.

oh i forgot that state's electoral votes are distributed based on county results and not on state-wide popular vote

Despite the loudness of septuagenarian Cubans, I'll be okay should I do the nasty.

lol

if Obama wins re-election Ted Nugent will be either dead or in prison by this time next year so if that's not motivation...

is that you reminding yourself, Mordy?

as the only person on this thread who belongs to an ethnic group that actually had federal legislation in this country describing its members as subhuman property and state legislation within the past century specifically aimed at preventing people like me voting, you can all fuck off with this "oh it doesn't matter, I'm not voting" bullshit

I don't even care from the "Obama must win" standpoint; the blind privilege inherent in being politically connected and refusing to vote is enraging.

I never said I wouldn't vote -- I said I may not vote for Obama.

fine, then i'll vote for Mickey Mouse.

I vote in every election and will do so until I die.

it's just that the "President" portion of my ballot may be occupied by a write-in vote for Morbz.

and whatever i do wr2 the Presidential ballot, i still plan to show up & vote for the Congressional candidates. even if i think that the entire Democratic Party is a stinking pile of poo too.

I'm voting for Carl Sagan

In theory, DJP, I agree with you. Just give me someone to vote for. "Refusing to vote" for one of 2 people who will make things worse at different speeds is defensible, especially when by the Democratic voters' standars, no one who will actually stop the slide to oblivion can ever get elected.

and not voting accomplishes what?

well might get some chores done around the house instead, I guess

xp

I dislike the lesser of two evils argument as much as the next guy. I have been spending much of my adult life trying to escape it, even to the point of registering with my local Green party so as not to be a registered Democrat, and Ialways try to work actively for candidates who actually seem attractive, as opposed to less evil.

But there comes a point in most elections where the choices are narrowed down and petulance over this fact doesn't get you anywhere. The choice of failing to vote might seem attractive compared to voting for the lesser of two evils, but in reality it merely ensures your complete irrelevance. Shit, I've even given $$ and done phone banking for the lesser of two evil candidates, because I'd rather be a tiny bit relevant, however infintesimally small that relevance may be, than just pout about things.

well, november 6th is already a scheduled laundry day.

also d4n, you recently posted re Obama/Holder on civil liberties/strip searches that the Administration seems to want to make the entire country know what it feels like to be black. So who is this theoretical damage-control helping in the long run? and how?

in reality it merely ensures your complete irrelevance.

No. The corporate-owned "democratic process" does that.

also, i didn't say that under no circumstances would i vote for Obama again -- i stated that i hold my nose and vote for him if come Election Day the election is too close to call. (i'll also add that i may do so if the Supreme Court rules that the ACA is unconstitutional.)

Aimless, has anyone said he's staying home on Election Day? I will go on voting in county and congressional elections; and in Florida we have at least four other candidates for prez.

i think it makes sense to keep the slightly better party in power just in case somebody comes up with the magical game-changer that will overthrow our corporate overlords. would rather have a slightly sympathetic ear in government.

and before any goes "lol you live in New Jersey you're just posturing!" my home state's blue-statedness is only a recent phenomenon and not etched in stone. look at who our current governor is, after all.

Kathryn Jean Lopez ‏ @kathrynlopez

is barack obama losing catholics?

Louis XVI and Kerensky weren't entirely unsympathetic to the howling masses, either. just sayin'.

in terms of stuff like starting wars, detonating weapons, unbalancing the fragile state of world politics, there's def a better + worse candidate here (even if romney is probably better on this stuff than psychotic mccain). it's not even lesser of two evils. try to keep the guy who wants to drop a nuke on iran out of office.

Alf, that was in response to Eisbaer.

I don't expect anything but the lesser of two evils in a democracy. My sense of white privilege is so high that frankly, anything less than being King-Emperor would likely disaapoint me but if you think that encouraging the obscurantist, often racist wing of the right w/a win this year, however much Mittens wasn't really the girl they were really in love with, then I disagree with your take on the long-term narrative of American polical party history and with all the wignnut damage that they're doing in the States, I'd like a Pres who only enrages me a couple times a fortnight and not every single morning.

Voting only for perfect candidates, classic or dud.

I am sure McCain would have appointed Sotomayor, and she is exactly the same as Scalia.

anyway, in the scheme of human history almost no decisions the president makes matter. will anyone know obama or romney's name in 4012?

answer: no, because our descendants will be living like molepeople testing the irradiation in the soil above them and telling stories about the days humans walked topside and felt the heat of the sun

I am sure McCain would have appointed Sotomayor, and she is exactly the same as Scalia.

successfully resisted a joek

also d4n, you recently posted re Obama/Holder on civil liberties/strip searches that the Administration seems to want to make the entire country know what it feels like to be black. So who is this theoretical damage-control helping in the long run? and how?

Is this a serious question? And, do you realize you have essentially phrased it as "why are these dark fascists inflicting their race war on us?"

jesus fucking christ

anyway, i think that this entire debate is going to be academic b/c i think that Obama will win reelection (even if it's too close for comfort).

relevant: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/17/is_obama_no_better_than_the_gop/

Yes, both Obama and McCain will be interventionist. But if one would invade Iran and the other wouldn’t … well, that’s a massive difference, even if both would embark on Libya-type adventures. There’s a good chance that Guantanamo stays open regardless of who is elected, but Romney’s supporters include many who support reinstituting torture; that’s extremely unlikely to be U.S. policy if Obama is reelected. Again, I’d call that a massive difference. On taxes, too, one candidate supports modest increases in tax rates for upper-level taxpayers, while the other favors large tax cuts from current levels; if either party wins a landslide, it’s likely that those positions would be enacted.

in terms of stuff like starting wars, detonating weapons, unbalancing the fragile state of world politics, there's def a better + worse candidate here

See you're going by what pols SAY here, and Obama is just the most prominent, latest example that such shit means nothing. Rombot would govern as closely to Obot as O has to Bushbot. Too close.

That "perfect candidate" shit is another eternal strawman. Yep, PERFECT is the ONLY standard by which Bam falls short!

i hope the mole overlord refuses to sanction massive reeducation torture, my back is still hurting from last week's celebratory beatings

do you realize you have essentially phrased it as "why are these dark fascists inflicting their race war on us?"

oh c'mon man, how is that possible?

they say that both candidates will be exactly the same, but the one promoting the destruction of our mushroom field food silos bc the great mole god will provide scares me. i'm going to vote for the with the eye-gauging platform. i can't see down here anyway and i need food to live.

well, we all know how Obama well has honored his 2008 campaign pledges. perfect ain't even in it, he hasn't even lived up to his own words.

Morbs, I think you have successfully convinced us all that Obama is not perfect. We are in your debt for this. So, if you think we are backsliding on this question, plz, sir, can we have another?

it's kinda nice that obama + romney are even letting us vote instead of just telling us who is the new overseer. i know that it doesn't matter which one i vote for, but it makes me feel like a participant when i pull the poll lever and get an 'i voted' sticker.

Rombot would govern as closely to Obot as O has to Bushbot. Too close.

yeah see this just isn't remotely true. If you think, for example, that Dubya would have handled the Gulf oil spill the way Obama did, you are wrong. Obama also did not initiate a war of convenience that crippled the economy. Obama did not appoint Scalia or Roberts etc etc