Joss Whedon: Who Saw Firefly?

Actually, I watched a couple episodes of this, and tried to get into it, but I've realized that I just can't appreciate space shows, and the good parts of Star Trek: the Next Generation were the exception rather than some kind of standard-setter. I couldn't get into Babylon 5, either, despite all my friends raving about it, and despite like Staczynski's other stuff a lot.

But I might be curious enough to rent this through Netflix, cause sometimes things work better in large chunks.

But yeah, I used to watch the ABC soaps intermittently -- you can pretty much just watch on Fridays and catch everything, and between not particularly going to high school and then going to a college that didn't hold classes on Friday ... there you go.

(I'm just realizing how much of the sex in my teens was had with a television playing. No wonder I was a pop culture major.)

No sex.

(amazon.co.uk are selling the 4 dvd box set of the entire series for £13 btw)

am torn between wanting more and wanting it just to exist as it is - with lots of unanswered questions but something that never became a disappointment.

only the second thing i've really bothered with the commentaries on as well (the other being 'Spaced'), often watching them immediately after watching the episode sans commentary. Joss etc would point out little things as they went along, all the clever touches that went over my head on the first watch (reminded me of Watchmen in that way). His commentary for last episode (or the last on the DVD anyway, 'Objects In Space') was part memoir, part an essay in existentialism. Lots of snipey comments about being cancelled too...

unfortunately amazon.co.uk prices have gone back up to £29 btw.

and where was Book? (people on slashdot seemd to think he couldn't make all the filming)

will be interesting to see if it has life as a movie (series of movies) having been (cultishly) popular but cancelled quickly. maybe, like star trek, the movie will prompt more tv...

I would have much preferred another season with enough room for the other characters and plenty of jokes, but I hope this will be good anyway.

This looks great, the first sci-fi space movie I'm looking forward to (ever).

There's almost no plot. River, who feels like she belongs nowhere, is the quarry of an existentially troubled bounty hunter who both cannot stand being in his own skin, is distantly amused by his sins, and trying not to go insane.

The DVD commentary by Whedon is almost as good, an organized ramble about losing his faith in God, embracing Satre and using Summer Galu's feet as a signifier of, um, something.

Fox are idiots to cancel this, buy the DVD of the series and see the movie 3 times and then buy the DVD of that and maybe we'll get to see Joss Whedons plot arcs carried through.

"also: i can kill you with my BRANE"

all 14 episodes of this COOL show are up on hulu.com

jayne rules

hahaha wow was I wrong about this show

Yeah, so was I. I hated this show so much when it was on Fox.

They really didn't do themselves any favors by not showing the actual pilot as the first episode.

The Firefly episode, "Objects in Space" is one of the greatest things Whedon's done,

"what happened about me"

^ my gf has been saying this all month

I'm about midway through the series now. Didn't watch it when it was on and I was only vaguely aware of it to begin with (as I was with Buffy). Not bad. It wasn't going to save science fiction on television (only the destruction of the Sci-Fi channel can do that), but I can see why something with above-average writing (yeah, I know - SF writing on television is abysmal) would attract such a cult following.

Just don't listen to the DVD commentary!

what?! i thought it was a pretty fuckin' good episode, best of the run, convinced me if i still needed convincing that it was a worthwhile series... then i saw it again with the commentary and i was all OMG WTF WHEDON IS A GENIUS, MY HERO, WHAT A GUY, SO DEEP, DUDE, etc etc.

then again i have only just belatedly discovered that apparently i am a hardcore textbook existentialist so maybe i'm a sucker for that kinda thing.

that's always hard to hear from your doctor.

more of a self-diagnosis.

I thought the commentary made Whedon seem a bit half-baked and pretentious. Been years since I tried to listen to that commentary, though, so maybe I just wasn't in the mood then.

He made like three Sartre references before the credits were done and my eyes started rolling.

Weird, my roommate was watching that commentary just last week. Anyway, in his defense, Whedon does say several times that he knows virutally nothing about existentialism. He read Nausea when he was younger and he liked the perspective it gave him, so the episode is more about that.

also, wtf elvis telecom? BSG yo

also, wtf elvis telecom? BSG yo

One show doesn't make a network.

Anyway, I finished watching all of Firefly and the Serenity movie. Second half of series + movie is outstanding. I wonder if a second season would have taken away from some of that?

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

One show doesn't make a network.

But if that one show is easily the best science fiction being produced on television, surely that justifies its existence in regards to producing quality science fiction (even if everything else on it is shite, save doctor who and twilight zone reruns).

I wonder if a second season would have taken away from some of that?

I've wondered that myself. It is kind of amazing how much emotional resonance the show manages to pull off in such a brief span. The flashback episode where the origins of the acquisition of the ship and the collection of its crew works far too well. Perhaps it really is better as 13 episodes plus movie.

But if that one show is easily the best science fiction being produced on television, surely that justifies its existence in regards to producing quality science fiction (even if everything else on it is shite, save doctor who and twilight zone reruns).

It seems that there's some self-selecting going on though. The Sci-Fi Channel counts on whatever fraction of viewers will watch simply because it is The Sci-Fi Channel.

Perhaps it really is better as 13 episodes plus movie.

TV series are way too long anyway. BSG would be significantly improved if there were only two full seasons.

The movie was a nice bit of closure.

Buffy is absolute horseshit compared to Firefly. Buffy is absolute horseshit compared to most things, though. (challenging opinion.)
there is a firefly comic series now, currently in issue 2 i think?

Oh, right: I did eventually watch this on DVD, and it was pretty good, once it got going -- I wish it had gotten a chance to actually find its feet for a while. There's a bit of a Catch-22 with that, though: if it had been running in one of the usual low-pressure spots for hour-long sci-fi series, it probably would have gotten that chance, but of course it would never have run in such a place, because it's Whedon, and who knows if he could have gotten it made in that kind of context anyway, &c. &c. &c....

The Jane-the-hero episode is probably the one I remember best, just for getting at precisely the kind of core amusing Whedony qualities that run through more or less everything he's ever done.

I believe that by "challenging" Ian means "faulty"

yeah firefly is way better than buffy, which is damning with faint praise imo, but it's a really good show.

TV series are way too long anyway.

Book series as well. Then again a LOT of things are way too long, but that's my own personal take on the trend toward endless immersion and distraction.

Book series as well TOO. Then again a A LOT of things are way too long, but that's my own personal take on the trend toward endless immersion and distraction.

Life is too long. Longer human lifespans are BAD FOR THE PLANET. Do we want to be around for those last thirty years, using up precious natural resources?

x-post -- The red pen! (Actually maybe that should be a feature on here.)

There's some sort of meditation on 21st century timekilling, substitution of cultural industry product for religious practice and social construction through isolation that I am going to not create because someone's probably already done it several times. (Hopefully not Momus.)

Yes but there are plenty of equally valid-sounding meditations on 21st century pop-culture attention plans and constant attention to turnover and information/culture packaged into tinier and tinier chunks which we navigate among with precious little continuous narrative or memory of what has gone even very recently before

Put these things together, and it becomes clear that everything should be medium-length

I like the idea of attention plans!

Midrange in the middle. All TV shows to be two years, all pizzas to be neither hot or cold. (My analogy needs work.)

(Joking aside, I would agree that most TV series run longer than is good for aesthetics, though capital has other demands. What would improve damned near everything would be if series were conceptualized with a specific length and size in mind, and played out accordingly -- but apart from committing to really short runs, that seems virtually impossible, and totally irreconcilable with the "well we'll see if people respond to this" method of figuring out what's going to be on TV.)

Put these things together, and it becomes clear that everything should be medium-length

Maybe a little bit shorter than that, because most manufactured culture (films, television, books, whatever) currently comes in a dozen different secondary formats. It's not enough to just release a movie, there has to be a promotional web-site tie-in, an alternate reality game, enough unused scenes to go on the DVD, multiple commentaries, etc. etc.

I was reminded recently that Babylon 5 was conceived of as a specific five-season arc, so that could be the great ur-example in American TV contexts. But as you say, this seems rare at best (and of course B5 only just got to go through that cycle by the skin of its teeth).

Maybe a little bit shorter than that, because most manufactured culture (films, television, books, whatever) currently comes in a dozen different secondary formats.

Good point, and we've all seen music mutate this way as well. (It's actually funny you mention the movie example in particular since I noticed that the DVDs for There Will Be Blood -- at least at present -- hold a bare minimum of bonus material, even in the two disc edition, with no commentaries mentioned and so forth. Cynically I figure that in a few months a different edition with all that could emerge, but given I mentioned said film in this post that ended up tackling the sprawl versus singular narrative approach I am intrigued to see the DVD incarnation continue in this understated-by-comparison fashion to, I dunno, Cloverfield or something. Not expressing myself very well here, I need some food...

First part an x-post to Nabisco

I am intrigued to see the DVD incarnation continue in this understated-by-comparison fashion to, I dunno, Cloverfield or something.

Funny you should mention Cloverfield. I enjoyed it quite a bit precisely because I avoided all the secondary crap that was out there. Want to see monster eat city. Period. Don't care about Mr. Monster Chow's mix tape.

First episode of Joss Whedon's internet mini musical up now! It's pretty enjoyable. http://drhorrible.com/

My girlfriend can't get over this thing.

my gf showed me the entire series of firefly plus the serenity movie recently. liked the series a lot more than i would have expected to, the movie less so after seeing the series..

Waiiiiiiiiiiit a minute this is a Western, not an outer space show! What a lousy bait and switch.

Reeeeeaaaaaaallllly love this shit. Soz guys.

You know I have to say the 2-hour pilot for this show was a lot more watchable than the 2-hour Twin Peaks pilot. This cld be in part bcz w/Firefly one (watched last night) I had along a fun friend who, in addition to 'splaining it & dropping scene-by-scene trivia, was helping me knit something above my skill level. Whereas Twin Peaks I watched alone in a lonely house in a dark room by myself.

can't imagine more appropriate twin peaks pilot settings to be fair

Firefly always seems slow when you start watching it and then after about 3 eps you're like "hey this is great!"

I havent watched my dvd in *ages*.

(I'm not a Buffy/Angel fan fwiw)

just finished rewatching this. was amazed at how the quality of it was obvious from the first 3 minutes of the pilot. and then amazed at how little there was of it and why it was cancelled just as it was getting going. (years later and fox are about to kill dollhouse. the more things change...)

film next.

once a year I break out the box set

I watched it for the first time about a year ago. At first I thought it was cheesy/stupid, but it won me over in a big way about mid-way through the season. To me this show is like a great song that is too short - like Hybrid Moments by the Misfits - and naturally you want it to go on forever, but you know if it really did it would get pretty boring and annoying after a while. Because it was such a short show, I wish the first few episodes were as strong and memorable as the rest of them.

Just started watching this, only nine years late. Saw the pilot, liked it a lot, and now I'm watching it again with the commentary track on - having to put it on pause because of mad lols every now and then.

Still love this show and get my DVD out on occasion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24d4wDFDeqU

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/02/17/firefly-returns/

Joss Whedon: WHO SAW PAUL NEWMAN

nathan fillion has not aged well:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Nathan_Fillion_at_Paleyfest_2012.jpg/401px-Nathan_Fillion_at_Paleyfest_2012.jpg

i had the reaction flipping through channels and seeing a recent episode of Castle. those network TV royalties must be sweet!

just looks tired

still handsome though

/sorry

He looks like Mark E Smith.

He looks like Mark E Smith.

50000 firefly fans can't be wrong

The game is almost here

https://keepflying.com

Saw some talk on dark horse website about a comic book continuation of the series like they've done with buffy series 8, 9 and 10

Vote!

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a33794/tv-reboot-tournament-final/

omg how could pushing daisies be winning

how did bored to death beat deadwood i mean

deadwood beat carnivale first, btw

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a33456/tv-reboot-tournament/

i can live with that. carnivale ended up being all hat and no cowboy

pushing daisies beat chappelle's show and freaks and geeks? i don't think so.

weird. i loved PD, but I'm also kind of amazed anybody remembers it to the same degree as F&G, Firefly, Deadwood, etc. (also, I still would've picked The Critic over it.)

https://www.apnews.com/424a511f2c134b758d5a34deacfd4552

the "Kaylee's dead" prank still cracks me up in Ep 1

https://www.instagram.com/oncewewerespacemen/reel/DV6Js56jT3F/

https://deadline.com/2026/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-animated-series-development-1236754122/

NOT NOW FIREFLY

also literally no-one wants this. can we give it back or stop them or bomb them idk

Ron Glass is dead, ergo there’s no more canonical Firefly

amen

All these people have been hearing, for more than 20 years now, every time they went out in public or to some convention type deal, what a shame it is that the series got cancelled - for some of them it's still the only/biggest role they are known for. I understand they feel like they have to try something with that nostalgia - it might even be good, who knows?

I get that the actors enjoyed working on this but I think the number of people who actually care is a lot lower than they think? My own feelings aside, it doesn’t feel like something that has ever had an expanding fanbase and any project that has the Whedon association is going to be poison, regardless of whether he’s involved now.

Stan’s on the right track. I suspect that the people who are showing up for pictures/autographs on the fan convention circuit are the *only* people who want this outside of the actors.

I personally am stoked for this and not much of my life is v joyful atm so permission to be stoked for this GRANTED

Also Whedon isn't involved and it covers the between years that only the comics touched on so...it's a yes from me

also literally no-one wants this

I mean they might be about to find this out. The entirety of the story is “Fillion said at a convention that they have a pilot script to send out and see if anyone’s interested”

“oh and not to worry, the guy who got Gamergate going is DEFINITELY involved”

I mean did anyone give a shit about Battlestar Galactica when they brought that back 25 years later?

Cool guess I'll go to another thread to talk about this

Wait who’s the Gamergater? Jayne?

yep. Adam Baldwin.

(I do want this and will watch, positives still outweigh the negatives for me... if someone like Adam Baldwin being involved is a red line, then it's kinda silly for me to do stuff like watch major league baseball yet I do that)

i'm tentatively excited as well. animated is good, i think, since they've all gotten so much older
i'm guessing it will take place before the movie, ofc

It's hard to feel affection for anything Whedon-related these days (and Baldwin's very active role in GG makes him markedly worse than your garden-variety conservative), but I wonder if a live-action show set after Serenity might have appealed to me more. Maybe if they'd gotten an animator/studio that I liked, but based on that one image in the article it doesn't look very exciting on the style front.

The Deadwood movie was just okay, the Justified sequel was ass, aside from S1 of SNW Star Trek is non-stop disappointment. With this and the Buffy news I’m realizing how content I am to just leave my pop culture past in the past. The world doesn’t need Middle-Aged OC or a Dawson’s Creek reboot where Dawson idolizes Mr Beast instead of Spielberg.

i'm guessing it will take place before the movie, ofc

Nhextradamus

maybe this was your point, but from the Deadline article:

The proposed series is set in the timeline between the original 2002 television run and its 2005 feature film continuation, Serenity, expanding the universe while preserving continuity with the established lore.

With Tudyk returning it would basically have to be this way

Deadwood movie was great.

xp yeah, with Tudyk's involvement, I figured. I mean, if I were doing it, I would set it post-movie and just have him brought on as a new guest character/alien/creature every week, but that's why they don't pay me the big bucks

but yes, i missed that they did say that - my bad

that was exactly my joke rob but

i would set it post-movie and just have him brought on as a new guest character/alien/creature every week

this seems like a far more sensible approach to doing a new Firefly with everyone several decades older and no reason to stick to the original fucko’s plotline and the freedom of animation to not need standing sets. adventure-of-the-week it and let Tudyk play two dicks every week, one human and one robot or alium