http://gnupg.orghttps://gpgtools.orghttps://www.hushmail.comhttp://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4403328/leaked-verizon-nsa-surveillance-court-orderhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/intelligence-leaders-push-back-on-leakers-media/2013/06/09/fff80160-d122-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html?tid=pm_politics_pophttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20full-width-1%20bento-box:Bento%20box:Position1
etcetcetc
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Monday, 10 June 2013 01:02 (ten years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/eec506bf20351884e637c951ddf10c42/tumblr_mo57g68m1k1s4m9g6o1_500.jpg
― lego maniac cop (latebloomer), Monday, 10 June 2013 01:12 (ten years ago) link
^^Goes well with the mixtape photo at the top of the Wikileaks thread.
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 10 June 2013 01:28 (ten years ago) link
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― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 10 June 2013 01:29 (ten years ago) link
I'm D6FEE5BC
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Monday, 10 June 2013 01:33 (ten years ago) link
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/assets_c/2013/06/Screen%20Shot%202013-06-09%20at%205.34.46%20PM-thumb-570x170-123958.png
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 01:40 (ten years ago) link
lol
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Monday, 10 June 2013 02:14 (ten years ago) link
geeks always have nu stuff to geek out about
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 02:17 (ten years ago) link
Hilariously dumb link bait from Farhad Manjoo:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/09/edward_snowden_why_did_the_nsa_whistleblower_have_access_to_prism_and_other.html
― Allen (etaeoe), Monday, 10 June 2013 02:33 (ten years ago) link
i was shocked to discover that the government has access to phone records and other electronic transmissions made by citizens of the united states. this time they have really gone to far and they must be stoppezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 03:13 (ten years ago) link
hahahahahahahaha!
manjoo otm in that the existence of a snowden type is symptomatic of an intel infrastructure that's gotten ridiculously bloated, to the extent that it (in a manner different than other fed bureaucracies) it hampers its ability to perform its duty.
― balls, Monday, 10 June 2013 03:26 (ten years ago) link
theres something like a million americans w some form of security clearance
― lag∞n, Monday, 10 June 2013 03:42 (ten years ago) link
well security clearance isn't very hard to get - i have it (had it?), tombot obv, would guess xhuxk at some point, there was another ilxor who had it thru a job i think. the weird thing now is that there's just a ridiculous amount of ppl actively dealing w/ sensitive material plus the usual ridiculous amount of material that's classified just pro forma.
― balls, Monday, 10 June 2013 04:01 (ten years ago) link
In 2003, Snowden enlisted in the United States Army with the hope of eventually joining the Special Forces. He was discharged after breaking both of his legs in a training accident. He then went to work as a security guard for a covert NSA facility at the University of Maryland. After that he went to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), where he worked on IT security. In 2007 the CIA stationed him with diplomatic cover in Geneva, Switzerland, where he was responsible for maintaining computer network security. Leaving the CIA in 2009, he worked for a private contractor inside an NSA facility on a United States military base in Japan.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 04:14 (ten years ago) link
dude's a spook.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 04:15 (ten years ago) link
he conveniently "broke his legs" and then went to work for the CIA. how "convenient".
god only knows what he's up to in hong kong. could be biological warfare. could be anything. you never can tell with triple crisscross spooks like this guy.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 04:17 (ten years ago) link
and he wants to defect to iceland? the plot thickens...
http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/bjork-surgery-successful-gi.jpg
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 04:18 (ten years ago) link
Designer of PRISM Powerpoint slides:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ted3xIhCYCA/ToYLO_RrqWI/AAAAAAAACpU/E9LLSxUptKc/s1600/Philip+Seymour+Hoffman+Charlie+Wilson%2527s+war.PNG
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 10 June 2013 04:43 (ten years ago) link
"I believe that the Hong Kong government is actually independent in relation to a lot of other leading Western governments," he said from his hotel in the territory.
:)
― dylannn, Monday, 10 June 2013 06:32 (ten years ago) link
National Security Letters contain a built-in gag order that blocks you from even acknowledging that you have received an order. All the companies have been in on this whether they like it or not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter - http://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters
what would happen if you got such a letter and just posted it to the internet or something?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 10:05 (ten years ago) link
a rumpled Chris Hayes tickled by Snowden's not being an Ivy Leaguer.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 11:30 (ten years ago) link
let's look on the bright side of his Ron Paul contributions:
not a Bamtard
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
Gmail is already encrypted fwiw (if you think they give keys to nsa this is w very little)
also: https://www.torproject.org/
― oxygenating our wombspace (abanana), Monday, 10 June 2013 12:33 (ten years ago) link
I heard lawyers on the radio expressing surprise he went to Hong Kong rather than Venezuela or Cuba or other countries that would be less likely to extradite him
― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:05 (ten years ago) link
I was thinking about that; one reason that popped into my head is if he did that it'd be easy to paint him as an Enemy of America and dismiss the work that he did. creates a different narrative than going to somewhere like Iceland or Hong Kong. who knows if that's what his thinking was, though.
― Spectrum, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:08 (ten years ago) link
theres nothing to stop him leaving hk now, assuming he hasnt already done so
― ghosts of erith spectral crackhouse slain rudeboy (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 10 June 2013 14:08 (ten years ago) link
now i've just got my favorite subhumans song from 1983 stuck in my head:
They'll promise you absolution from the murders you'll commitIn the name of god and country they can get away with itThey fill you full of orders and promise you rewardsLike busting up your family by sending you abroadA holiday in Germany or Iceland or Hong Kong
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:18 (ten years ago) link
he went to hong kong because libertarians love hong kong and its freedom and free markets
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
who doesn't love hong kong?
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
only an 11 hour flight from hawaii. did he go from hawaii?
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqh0zXSd4vc
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:29 (ten years ago) link
my guess is that hong kong won't let him stay after his 90 day visa expires and i think he'll be moving on very shortly, before hong kong immigration status is an issue--if he's even still there.
― dylannn, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:32 (ten years ago) link
Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/james-clapper-and-iraqi-wmd.html
The head of the NSA in a previous military position just knew that Saddam had illicit weapons.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:37 (ten years ago) link
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/06/10/edward-snowden-the-washington-post-whistleblowers/
Snowden went to the Washington Post first, but they wouldn't publish the info in the manner he wanted
― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 June 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
Greenwald cackles.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
two statements to consider (a minute apart, as it happens)
https://twitter.com/glennbeck/status/343816286234632192https://twitter.com/laurenist/status/343816735339708416
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
bizarro dan alter @bizarodanalter 19h@glennbeck "the man for whom I was waiting" is proper grammar. You should have gone to college/finished high school. #uneduca
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
owned
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
i haven't really figured all this out yet but my opinion is that these scandals are awesome!
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
certainly more beneficial for the public to be thinking about than the benghazi/IRS stuff
― Z S, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link
think the guardian has updated to confirm that he did receive his GED
― max, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link
it's possible that this one counts and the effect hasn't been seen yet but fwiw scandalmania is completely invisible in obama's approval rating
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
BREAKING
xp
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
would not be shocked if the general public dgaf about this
― Spectrum, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
yep
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
unless it comes out that the white house was spying on kim kardashian or something
Edward Snowden: saving us from the United Stasi of America
Comment is free
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
completely invisible in obama's approval rating
and fuck the general public, they are morons u know
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:40 (ten years ago) link
I know you've gone hoarse explaining these subtleties to the great moronic public.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
Perhaps, it is because I never really lived in an internet free-world (the web arrived when I was 7) but am I the only one who doesn't really care about it? or at least isn't surprised?
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
if Joe/Jane Average actually found fault with O for this, let's all say their #1 solution together: "Let's 'lect a 'Publican." xp
This is not about SURPRISE; abuses become more concrete when one knows the details.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
My reaction has been: after "Breaking Bad" and "The Wire" and Tony Scott movies, the federal government considers this spymaster horseshit worth keeping top secret? Only in a land where a million people boast top secret clearance.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
high quality tv shows like breaking bad and the wire keep the american public up to date on important issues but also keep them blissfully content
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
if we want an angry and activist public we need worse tv shows
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
worse cable TV shows
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
This is really no big deal until the first person gets wrongfully accused by the NSA and thrown in the hoosegow. When that happens, call me. 1-800-WATERFACE
― waterface, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
mad men is possibly the biggest threat to democracy since seinfeld
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
bcz they lack the imagination to understand how this info could be used against them. the average american thinks they are of no interest to the government, but when you combine this program with a few of the overly broad federal laws already on the books and you have the makings of a turnkey police state.
― Aimless, Monday, 10 June 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
https://chronicle.com/article/Why-Privacy-Matters-Even-if/127461/
TLDR article re why privacy matters even if you have nothing to hide
― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
What a perv
One can usually think of something that even the most open person would want to hide. As a commenter to my blog post noted, "If you have nothing to hide, then that quite literally means you are willing to let me photograph you naked? And I get full rights to that photograph—so I can show it to your neighbors?"
― waterface, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
"quite literally"
there are lots of alternatives to "the general public dgaf about this"- they don't know about it yet- they don't understand it yet- as was noted, the polling numbers don't reflect a reaction yetthis stuff came out, what, a week ago? it takes time for responses/reactions to build. but it is easier to feel superior to strawmen i guess
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
xposts
I think a lot of people understand how this info could be used against them, it is news after all. The thing is, I have no idea how to escape this, I am facebook and google user so I've pretty much accepted that my data is somewhere I don't really know and could be used against me at any times, since what? 7 years? more? People I know who really care about this stuff uses terms like sheeple and dabble in the dark arts of facebook macros. So I guess it's more about feeling specifically powerless, especially when you live outside of the US, cause we didn't even elect those administrations.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
we can't invite Muslim friends over to watch Breaking Bad episodes anymore
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
right, i guess another option is - they give a fuck about it but don't know what they can do about itwhich includes me
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
the general public already kinda figures that the governement does whatever the fuck it wants. they're good with it.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
for some reason wasn't the case in 1974
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link
ie the peak of this country
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:13 (ten years ago) link
Watergate was the peak of this country? Interesting.
― waterface, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:13 (ten years ago) link
no sending Shitface off in the copter was
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
that wd be a good name for u btw, free advice
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
it took more than two years after the watergate arrests for nixon to resign
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
Watergate waterface shitface I can't tell the difference anymore
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:15 (ten years ago) link
Cool
― copter (waterface), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:16 (ten years ago) link
U a Billy Joel fan bro?
― copter (waterface), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:17 (ten years ago) link
in january 1973, which was seven months after the watergate arrests, nixon had a 67 percent approval rating
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
now if the government were secretly delaying the arrival of the new Xbox system we might see some angry mobs.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
trenchant
― posters who have figured how to priv (darraghmac), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
ppl do figure this stuff isn't likely to ever affect them, which is correct
or PS 4. which i think we may go for. it plays blu-ray, right? i might consider getting all the president's men on blu-ray.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
yes, this has to be a story (ooooh NARRATIVE) for months to come.
Unfortunately, both parties in lockstep supporting this and national attention span is 83 seconds so u know.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
i'm always shocked by the amount of people who fall off of turnip trucks on a daily basis. the whole CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? outrage junkie response. can we believe it? you betcha. kinda figured it was happening all along for decades. is there any reason to believe that any part of the world wide web is off limits to the u.s. govt? or any cell phone. or anything? they can snatch you out of your bed at night, what's a cell phone call? #crustpunx4truth
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
goddamn lazy average american unwilling to grumble on a music forum
― da croupier, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
ah yes such an insightful point it needed to be made for a thousandth time
― k3vin k., Monday, 10 June 2013 16:31 (ten years ago) link
http://d.wapday.com/animation/ccontennt/13165-f/coach_blowing_whistle.gif
― joe bogus (am0n), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
my main reaction is "nothing like a privacy scandal to show how thoroughly entitled white Americans are"
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
this does actually remind me of when people on my facebook post stories from the news that are like OMG can you believe the cops harrassed this guy because he was BLACK! no way! that is NOT what the police are supposed to do. and i honestly don't know what fucking planet they have come from.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
maybe outrage is just a commodity now. you can buy and sell it on the open market. the perfect capitalist trick.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:42 (ten years ago) link
the entitlement of internet users is also baffling.
― Van Horn Street, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Monday, June 10, 2013 12:38 PM (3 minutes ago)
http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/Oh+I+see+you+have+a+repost+there+_922e03588f1f114a55bfd4c3bda95086.jpg
― k3vin k., Monday, 10 June 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
"maybe" its a commodity. sorry, strike that maybe. and the "now" too.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:45 (ten years ago) link
Fox the US government turned into a porn channel police state so gradually I didn't even notice.
― Aimless, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:50 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
even in that guy's video interview he's like they'll be able to use your past phone conversations against you and make a case even if you did nothing wrong. law enforcement does that every damn day! they don't need your damn cellphone calls! #edangerlives
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:57 (ten years ago) link
even THAT guy lives in la la land and he's the whistler. well, he is 29. what does he know about anything...
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
yes, really, let's feel "entitled" to what the Constitution guarantees us. Jesus Christ you ppl
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:02 (ten years ago) link
I do have a renewed appreciation of middle-class cynics being an essential Democratic-voter set after deluded liberals, so thx Snowden.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
It's sad. It was a Bill of Rights.
― Aimless, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
this is for you morbz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mCC1wktIZ0
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
also it's funny to be 'confronted' about issues like this by a Brzezinski
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/glenn-greenwald-spars-on-morning-joe-92479.html
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:13 (ten years ago) link
lol like guns, amirite
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
also slaves
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/rightofprivacy.htmlhttp://www.usconstitution.net/constfaq_q113.htmlhttp://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.htmlhttp://www.justia.com/constitutional-law/docs/privacy-rights.html
Of the various things that have been found to be covered by the Constitution by the Supreme Court, "who you've been talking to" isn't listed.
However, there is a rebuttal: http://harrybrowne.org/articles/PrivacyRight.htm
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
I think there was an amendment I saw in some movie last Christmas....xp
"a well-regulated militia" xxp
I can't watch that clip right now, Comrade Scott, but I'll boot it up at the cell metting tnite.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
Gen Keith Alexander, head of the NSA: “The great irony is we’re the only ones not spying on the American people.”
Disregarding the blatant untruth of this statement he made to Congress a couple of weeks ago, this idiot seems to think that this would, if it hadn't been a bald lie, be a merely ironic happenstance, rather than a fundamental distinction. The Chinese don't make or enforce the laws that govern us. The Germans don't. The Russians don't. The Brits don't. Google doesn't. Apple doesn't.
Combining indiscriminate and near-universal survelliance with the power to imprison or execute creates an entirely different entity from those other ones he was referring to. That's no irony. That's a vital safeguard.
― Aimless, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
i think i get where you are coming from DJP but honestly i think the task at hand is to link the NSA story to, say, this one:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/06/lawsuit-mississippi-prison-mentally-ill
...which is that in the name of public safety, the appointed "guards" can do whatever they want
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
fyi that link needs whatever trigger warning nsfsanity ruinyourday tags you can throw on it
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
the constitution does not actually guarantee guns fyi
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:29 (ten years ago) link
p. sure it guarantees one (1) per customer, please show up at city hall between 11am - 3pm for yours
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:30 (ten years ago) link
that is my fave law enforcement trick, by the way. tell people with outstanding warrants that they have money waiting for them and then they come and get it and blammo! into the pokey. that's just good old-fashioned trickery. i think i saw that in a movie...
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
It's the one where the gangsters all get free tickets to the Yankees game and blammo!
― ... (Eazy), Monday, 10 June 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
i love that trick!
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
hey i'm here for my free motor boat...hey forgeddaboutit!!!! wait was it the simpsons where it was a free motor boat? best trick.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
i have offered that deal
― goole, Monday, 10 June 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
xp yes, which leads to the police manhandling Homer, who shouts, "Hey! My boating arm!"
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
a guy who works for Booz Allen probably doesn't have much first hand experience of the criminal justice system
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Monday, 10 June 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
this is a weird opinion piece by jeffrey toobin
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-leaker-is-no-hero.html
it's not wrong but it seems to be totally missing the point
― congratulations (n/a), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:29 (ten years ago) link
toobin is a disgusting jerk imo
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:40 (ten years ago) link
that toobin piece is such bullshit
first of all, he apparently finds the idea that snowden might have had complex motives for releasing the NSA documents shocking! utterly shocking!
then, he makes out like this has any bearing on anything.
finally, there's this helpful suggestion to future snowdens:
they can take advantage of federal whistle-blower laws; they can bring their complaints to Congress; they can try to protest within the institutions where they work.
b/c that's worked out so well under the obama administration
fuck this guy
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:42 (ten years ago) link
He is, rather, a grandiose narcissist who deserves to be in prison.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:45 (ten years ago) link
Toobin was on CNN last week saying the same nonsense last week before Snowden revealed himself
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
i love how the implication here is that his supposed "grandiose narcissism" is what should land him in prison
if that were true, 2/3 of political bloggers would be in guantanamo
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
^^^ tempting
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgN6xkfgvls
― am0n, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
http://bit.ly/16XNszo
― balls, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
http://www.people-press.org/files/2013/06/6-10-13-7.png
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
Roughly a quarter (27%) of Americans say they are following news about the government collecting Verizon phone records very closely. This is a relatively modest level of public interest. Only another 21% say they are following this fairly closely, while about half say they are following not too (17%) or not at all (35%) closely
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
WHY ? • 12 hours ago −
Edward Snowden, great American hero and true patriot. Thank you Mr. Snowden....stay safe & God Bless.
4448 up 244 down
― the late great, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
i guess that shows how far "the internet" skews off IRL?
so only 1/3 of americans even follow any news whatsoever basically
says a lot
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:56 (ten years ago) link
The question, of course, is whether the government can function when all of its employees (and contractors) can take it upon themselves to sabotage the programs they don’t like. That’s what Snowden has done.
i'd quote catch-22 here re "what if everyone thought that way" but then i'd have to think of a joke about "snowden"
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
I mean it's not even 'the internet' it's people who follow politics as a hobby vs normal people
― iatee, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
the question of course
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
xp it's cnn.com
― the late great, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:58 (ten years ago) link
it's not a bad question but that's what a social contract is duh
― the late great, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:59 (ten years ago) link
right before this story came out i was reading something that said over 130 million american cell phones end up in landfills every year. and i though huh wow that's a lot of cell phones. to end up in the ground. then i forgot about it. then this story came out and i remembered again.
― scott seward, Monday, 10 June 2013 20:59 (ten years ago) link
I'm worried about the goatee. Tomorrow Greenwald will get him into a pair of cargo shorts.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 10 June 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
A January 2006 Washington Post/ABC poll—which was released in the wake of President George W. Bush’s “terrorist surveillance program”—found that 51 percent of Americans believed it was appropriate for the NSA to investigate suspected terrorists by “secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails between some people in the United States and other countries, without first getting court approval to do so.”
Pew highlights partisan shifts on the issue between 2006 and 2013, which may be attributed to a change of party in the White House. In 2006, 75 percent of Republicans and 37 percent of Democrats thought it was acceptable to monitor phone records in the name of national security. Today, 52 percent of Republicans and 64 percent of Democrats find it acceptable.
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:09 (ten years ago) link
ha -- Chris Hayes just mentioned this.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:12 (ten years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, June 10, 2013 3:56 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
presumably this is about the same 1/3 of americans who vote; i wonder if it matters
― goole, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:13 (ten years ago) link
not too much of a shock i guess that most democrats deep down loved the patriot act
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:55 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/06/10/how-to-get-that-balance-right-on-nsa-spying/
but this particular case is not yet settled law, what is my entitled white brain supposed to think
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:57 (ten years ago) link
the1/3 of Americans who vote also tend to take cues from their favorite political party, neither of which is gonna tell them to be outraged right now xp
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 00:59 (ten years ago) link
dems were pretty much ok with clinton's post-oklahoma city anti-terror act, can't imagine they wouldn't have been openly enthusiastic about patriot act if it'd happened under a dem pres.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:00 (ten years ago) link
http://trollthensa.com/
― Fetchboy, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 01:11 (ten years ago) link
snowden checks out
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 02:37 (ten years ago) link
Can anyone provide good links to in-depth explanations and analyses of what exactly the NSA is doing with Prism and similar programs? Seems like all the news is just about where Snowded is and what his girlfriend does for a living and whether or not he likes normal american flavors of ice cream as opposed to this faggy blood orange and cardamom stuff.
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:15 (ten years ago) link
the hong kong thing is very very odd
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 03:25 (ten years ago) link
yeah I mean scott said upthread his history made him seem like a spook; maybe he's a Chinese asset.
xp to analyze what exactly the NSA is doing with Prism there'd have to be some reliable information about what Prism actually is and does. If you want an idea of what the NSA might be doing with Big Data in general, check out http://www.palantir.com and infer from there I guess?
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 04:33 (ten years ago) link
Palantir Gotham's precision data control, maintenance of data provenance, and robust accountability mechanisms can form the backbone of a rigorous privacy- and civil liberties-protective data handling regime.
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 04:39 (ten years ago) link
co-founded by ron paul's #1 campaign contributor
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 04:41 (ten years ago) link
haha for real? maybe I shouldn't apply for a job there.
(the greatest threat to our civil liberties is amoral engineers looking for exciting projects)
― Operation Gypsy Dildo (silby), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 04:42 (ten years ago) link
nah it's peter thiel, there is nothing actually libertarian about palantir
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 04:44 (ten years ago) link
holy shit david brooks is the worst http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/11/opinion/brooks-the-solitary-leaker.html?hp&_r=2&
― From the home of the underground railway and stuff (symsymsym), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 05:43 (ten years ago) link
He betrayed the cause of open government. Every time there is a leak like this, the powers that be close the circle of trust a little tighter. They limit debate a little more.He betrayed the privacy of us all. If federal security agencies can’t do vast data sweeps, they will inevitably revert to the older, more intrusive eavesdropping methods.He betrayed the Constitution. The founders did not create the United States so that some solitary 29-year-old could make unilateral decisions about what should be exposed.
He betrayed the privacy of us all. If federal security agencies can’t do vast data sweeps, they will inevitably revert to the older, more intrusive eavesdropping methods.
He betrayed the Constitution. The founders did not create the United States so that some solitary 29-year-old could make unilateral decisions about what should be exposed.
fuck this fucking moron
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 05:49 (ten years ago) link
oh you missed the best part
He betrayed his employers. Booz Allen and the C.I.A. took a high-school dropout and offered him positions with lavish salaries. He is violating the honor codes of all those who enabled him to rise.
srsly brooks?!?
― the late great, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 05:55 (ten years ago) link
If only he had the gentle gradation of ILX nestled between neighborhood and religion
― a very generous Cordoban (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 06:22 (ten years ago) link
a david brooks new york times column stomping on a human face forever
― From the home of the underground railway and stuff (symsymsym), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 07:03 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/06/was-cheney-right-about-obama.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 10:49 (ten years ago) link
For those of you that know me without my super hero cape, you can probably understand why I’ll be refraining from blog posts for awhile. My world has opened and closed all at once. Leaving me lost at sea without a compass. Surely there will be villainous pirates, distracting mermaids, and tides of change in this new open water chapter of my journey. But at the moment all I can feel is alone. And for the first time in my life I feel strong enough to be on my own. Though I never imagined my hand would be so forced. As I type this on my tear-streaked keyboard I’m reflecting on all the faces that have graced my path. The ones I laughed with. The ones I’ve held. The one I’ve grown to love the most. And the ones I never got to bid adieu. But sometimes life doesn’t afford proper goodbyes. In those unsure endings I find my strength, my true friends, and my heart’s song. A song that I thought had all but died away, when really it was softly singing all along. I don’t know what will happen from here. I don’t know how to feel normal. But I do know that I am loved, by myself and those around me. And no matter where my compass-less vessel will take me, that love will keep me buoyant.
The Adventures of a world-traveling, pole-dancing super hero (Snowden's girlfriend)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:07 (ten years ago) link
Cheney wasn't "right" about Obama, but he understood his character better than most Democrats did.
Laura Poitras on how they got that story:
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/10/qa_with_laura_poitras_the_woman_behind_the_nsa_scoops/
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:15 (ten years ago) link
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18qg6vi272tccjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg
― how's life, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:15 (ten years ago) link
Whenever I see mention of Edward Snowden I just assume it's about "Game of Thrones" and skip the story for fear of spoilers.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:32 (ten years ago) link
"According to The Washington Post, he has not been a regular presence around his mother’s house for years."
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:35 (ten years ago) link
hang him!
Good on Wonkette for being the only place I've seen to make the "Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?" connection because I was gonna make that joke here but decided to Google first.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 12:44 (ten years ago) link
From what we know so far, Edward Snowden appears to be the ultimate unmediated man. Though obviously terrifically bright, he could not successfully work his way through the institution of high school. Then he failed to navigate his way through community college.
According to The Washington Post, he has not been a regular presence around his mother’s house for years. When a neighbor in Hawaii tried to introduce himself, Snowden cut him off and made it clear he wanted no neighborly relationships. He went to work for Booz Allen Hamilton and the C.I.A., but he has separated himself from them, too.
Though thoughtful, morally engaged and deeply committed to his beliefs, he appears to be a product of one of the more unfortunate trends of the age: the atomization of society, the loosening of social bonds, the apparently growing share of young men in their 20s who are living technological existences in the fuzzy land between their childhood institutions and adult family commitments.
How exciting! Snowden happens to be one of David's bobos in paradise.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:38 (ten years ago) link
all this and roxy music has a new album out too
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:41 (ten years ago) link
xp that is beyond stupid. is suffering some kind-of brain damage a requirement to be a columnist?
― Spectrum, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:43 (ten years ago) link
I can think of TONS of people with GED/aborted college who then become extremely capable programmers/sysadmins/etc - one of the few sectors where the ability to do the job outweighs the need for academic qualifications.
― on the sidelines dishing out sass (suzy), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:43 (ten years ago) link
you mean they weren't atomized citizens?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:45 (ten years ago) link
that one's a real chin stratcher, huh.
― Spectrum, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:47 (ten years ago) link
Meanwhile Florida's senior senator has some things to say
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:48 (ten years ago) link
Pareene:
he debate became whether or not Snowden is a hero because that is easier to talk about. Pick a side! Argue! The same thing happened before Snowden was revealed as the leaker, as hundreds of people felt it necessary to announce that they had Important Opinions about the work of Glenn Greenwald. (Once the Post got in on the fun, the ad hominem Greenwald attacks suddenly seemed even less relevant.) Some people hated Greenwald, for various reasons, and that was easier to talk about than the substance of the stories he was reporting.
If you’re a straight-up dolt like Richard Cohen, you probably don’t understand the complicated tech stuff involved in the NSA’s data-mining, so you just call Snowden “a cross-dressing Little Red Riding Hood” and endorse your check. (Meanwhile your actually informed colleagues file informative reports like this one co-authored by Dana Priest.)
If you’re Politico, where the meta-story is always more relevant than the story-story, you write a few hundred words about how the White House is grateful that everyone is arguing about Snowden instead of about surveillance. You quote Paul Begala asking if James Franco will play him in the movie. That’s fun! Plus you don’t need to think seriously about difficult questions to get and print that quote. Politico, as an institution, is incapable of criticizing or seriously analyzing the national security state (some of their best advertisers are defense contractors!), so it is quite fortuitous for them that they can treat this story as another issue of personalities and ineffable “scandal.”
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/11/is_edward_snowden_a_hero_or_a_traitor_who_cares/
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
Some people hated Greenwald, for various reasons, and that was easier to talk about than the substance of the stories he was reporting.
This seems awfully familiar...
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 14:46 (ten years ago) link
http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/nsa-post-office-checks-in-danziger.gif
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
this whole thing has been a conspiracy by the post office to destroy email once and for all
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO_6Y4oT7UQ
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:38 (ten years ago) link
that danzinger ed cartoon is very onionesque
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/06/11/john_boehner_says_edward_snowden_is_a_traitor.html
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
david brooks is the most hateful bootlicker ever to see print in the nytimes
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
the usps cartoon is mostly wrong, anyway
http://gawker.com/the-fbi-is-spying-on-you-too-snail-mailers-so-maybe-do-512201927
― max, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Bill_Kristol_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg/220px-Bill_Kristol_by_Gage_Skidmore.jpg
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
richard cohen should come post to ilx, good column, a few ilxors were making some similar points minus the trans-slurring
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
i liked when he said "nothing has been searched or seized. it has merely been noted."
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
or, you know. liked ironically.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
I think Americans who feel "entitled" to a certain amount of free speech and/or privacy are starting to feel like Warren Beatty in the last 20 minutes of McCabe & Mrs Miller.
(or The Parallax View)
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/conversation/harrys%20privacy.jpg
I fear most Americans who care will end up like Gene Hackman playing the sad sax in the last 3 mins of The Conversation
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:21 (ten years ago) link
nah like woody allen in the last minute of manhattan
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:23 (ten years ago) link
mariel hemingway is the fourth amendment here
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
http://www.maximumpc.com/files/u46173/snowden.jpg
"You have to have more faith in people"
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/06/the_big_money.php?ref=fpblg
The consulting scandal doesn’t scratch the surface. Snowden was reputedly taking home $200K which is considerably more than a system admin would normally make $100K is a good salary for a UNIX admin.Like many people he is described as a consultant but he really wasn’t. He was an NSA employee who was being paid through a contract with Booze Allen. He was what we used to call a ‘Temp’. But in many government offices they can’t pay a commercial salary for a position so they pay twice to three times as much to hire them as a ‘consultant’.
So the government won’t pay a commercial rate for employing technical staff and they pay double to hire them through an agency.
i don't even know where to begin w/this
― scream blahula scream (govern yourself accordingly), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
i do think it's important that we keep in mind what a dangerous millennial he is though
― scream blahula scream (govern yourself accordingly), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:33 (ten years ago) link
lol at a company called "Booze Allen"
what's next: "Crank James"?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
i saw somewhere that BA is denying that he made 200k
― goole, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/11/news/companies/snowden-booz-allen/?hpt=hp_t2
"Booz Allen, in a statement Monday, also confirmed reports that Snowden was an employee of the firm for less than three months, working in Hawaii. The firm said he was paid an annual salary of $122,000, a figure substantially less than the $200,000 that has been previously reported. "
― Oh maintenance (doo dah), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
oh fucking duh, "spilled his guts." i spent probably a whole two minutes of concentration on this when he first revealed himself and i still couldn't think of a joke that worked; i'm so dumb.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:36 (ten years ago) link
good work
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:40 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li6ssFbej64
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:52 (ten years ago) link
DNC Chair: Snowden ‘Violated America’s Trust’
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
lol, lou ferrigno is a sherrif's deputy?
― wk, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:05 (ten years ago) link
i work in a s/w house that releases data analysis products so i guess i'm in the minority here when i say that these revelations did not come as a shock.
in fact, given the sheer volume of data that is available with supposed consent, i would be more shocked if the various govt agencies weren't doing this.
― mark e, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:12 (ten years ago) link
^^^ my opinion as well
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
I am ten times as worried that Amazon pretty much knows before I do what I want to buy next week, because I am powerless in the face of the Amazon Prime juggernaut.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:22 (ten years ago) link
Amazon just notified me of a sale on cargo shorts.
― lipitor retriever (brownie), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:29 (ten years ago) link
no one is necessarily shocked but cool story
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:30 (ten years ago) link
this is not about "shock," it's about confirmation of a suspicion
you can operate based on the assumption that the gov't is tracking data but that puts you about a half-step away from people who operate based on the assumption that the gov't is using satellites to control the weather
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
people are tracking their own movements via their phones. they are doing all the work for the govt. never before have people left such huge easily trackable/traceable data trails.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:39 (ten years ago) link
i don't understand the second part of that post but i think i agree with the first part? (xp n/a)
no one is really shocked that the government would want free access to all sorts of data about people's lives, it's clearly in their self-interest to have it. the question is whether it should be legal
xp scott, thanks
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:41 (ten years ago) link
somebody remind me who the DNC chair is, I don't follow furniture.
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwaldGo read 2001/2002 debate over the Patriot Act - NOBODY thought it enabled mass, indiscriminate, bulk collection of all Americans' records.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
i mean it must be kind of an exciting time to be a security/govt/cia type. so much info! they love info.
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
well tbf nobody cared about their fb accounts being monitored in 2001 because fb didn't exist in 2001
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
so it's the platform that counts, not the principle
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
ok, use of the word shock may have overstated things.
however, this is not a new expose either :
i mean ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acxiom
― mark e, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
when it comes to how we store personal data online the platform does count. nobody could have conceived of the arguments we're having today because back in 2001 the idea that 1 billion people would put all of their personal info on one website wasn't really conceivable.
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
it's almost like there was a slope that became slippery
― Z S, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
except of course for all of the order history info in Amazon and Travelocity
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
fuck being a spook in 2013, the real action's in being a historian in 2200
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
ya this had been happening w/ consumer data for much longer, but I think people don't take that as seriously as their fb photos etc? or maybe just cause stuff like acxiom so far under the radar that many people just only have a vague idea.
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
also amazon / the internet back then was still not used as widely as it is today. fewer people had amazon purchasing histories to worry about.
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
Plus they only had seven books for sale, and two of them were Who Moved My Cheese? and What Color Is My Parachute?
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
Grateful to Amazon for offering pristine copies of used Eno albums in '98.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 17:58 (ten years ago) link
The idea that no one could have known that all of this information would be out there when there were concerted technical initiatives to make it easier to put all of this info out there, not only through third-party websites but also through ISP recruitment (remember the age of the ever-present AOL installation CD) is pretty asinine. Data repositories for successful, long-lasting endeavors don't shrink.
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
I don't think the rise of social networks and the fact that people would voluntarily be putting up as much personal info as they do today was seen as inevitable by the public at large - those were the 'nobody knows you're a dog' years
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
I mean if it's not your job or your hobby you don't spend that much time thinking about what technology is going to look like in 12 years and adjusting your political beliefs accordingly
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:04 (ten years ago) link
http://www.aclu.org/stop-government-plan-mine-our-privacy-total-information-awareness-system
― copter (waterface), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
just as long as people keep sharing yummy rum raisin cake recipes i'm happy. kudos to marge p. in sheboygan! :)
― scott seward, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
I don't think anyone here is "shocked." What bothers me are the billions spent on private contractors on data accumulation and the fetishizing of secrecy. But with a million people boasting top secret clearance you gotta keep the secrecy industry afloat, you know?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
from 2993
― copter (waterface), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
Imean 2003
lols at marge p in sheboygan
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying on this server.
THANKS ACLU
― the late great, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:12 (ten years ago) link
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, June 11, 2013 1:07 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
why, it's almost like.. the military!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 18:57 (ten years ago) link
also http://gawker.com/the-vain-media-cynics-of-the-nsa-story-512575457
Al Franken.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
but also...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-spy-access-20130611,0,171405.story
Analyst overstated claims on NSA leaks, experts say
Amid questions over how Edward Snowden gained access to critical data, experts cite the technical limits and far-reaching oversight within the agency.
― goole, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:02 (ten years ago) link
i don't think the US should be engaged in warrantless (meaning=without a warrant from a non-secret court) "data mining" to begin with, so there's not much that "officials" and "experts" can do to convince me all is OK
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
shhh but Sully will explain it to you.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
"oh, that can't be true. when we warrantlessly tap your phone, that can only be initiated by a supervisor." thanks bro.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
Any NSA analyst "at any time can target anyone, any selector, anywhere," Snowden told the Guardian. "I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president if I had a personal email."
Robert Deitz, a former top lawyer at the NSA and CIA, called the claim a "complete and utter" falsehood.
"First of all it's illegal," he said. "There is enormous oversight. They have keystroke auditing. There are, from time to time, cases in which some analyst is [angry] at his ex-wife and looks at the wrong thing and he is caught and fired," he said.
NSA analysts who have the authority to query databases of metadata such as phone records — or Internet content, such as emails, videos or chat logs — are subject to stringent internal supervision and also the external oversight of the foreign surveillance court, former NSA officials said.
"It's actually very difficult to do your job," said a former senior NSA operator, who also declined be quoted by name because of the sensitive nature of the case. "There are all these checks that don't allow you to move agilely enough."
― goole, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:09 (ten years ago) link
[angry]
"I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone from you or your accountant to a federal judge to even the president if I had a personal email."
hmmmmmmm
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:11 (ten years ago) link
"It's actually very difficult to do your job," said a former senior NSA operator, who also declined be quoted by name because she was about to leave for a four-week vacation in Bali, paid for thanks to a $250,000 salary.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:11 (ten years ago) link
tried to make this my dn but no brackets allowed :(
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
lol @ the idea of a senior NSA operator making $250K
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:16 (ten years ago) link
$150K, sure; lol @ $250K tho
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:17 (ten years ago) link
Snowman's salary somewhere in the middle though!
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:19 (ten years ago) link
the lowball on his salary (from "booze allen") is $122k; highball (from him i guess?) is $200k; i don't think he was a "senior analyst"
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
sorry, "operator"
(i think we got "disconnected")
if he left a $200k job for this, he is a true american hero but if he only left a $122k job, he is scum
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
and he didn't spend a dime on eyeglass frames
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:25 (ten years ago) link
lol at sullivan praising obama for, among other things, 'no more completely unchecked executive power.'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
Lol at Sullivan forever
― copter (waterface), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
this will probably seem paranoid to some but i think it hits the nail on the head.
http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18018-when-the-surveillance-state-is-used-to-investigate-and-prosecute-whistleblowers-the-occupy-movement-and-environmental-activists
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:15 (ten years ago) link
Normally annoying inside the beltway centrist Washington Post columnist Dana Millbank suddenly decided to spell out the efforts some folks had gone to trying to get some information in the recent past and the roadblocks they ran into:
lawmakers quashed efforts to allow even modest public disclosure of the broad contours of the program. Steven Aftergood, who runs the Federation of American Scientists’ Project on Government Secrecy, lists the various ways in which the administration, Congress and the courts denied the public any right to know:
The Justice Department and the DNI promised a new effort to declassify opinions issued by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court; Justice official Lisa Monaco, now Obama’s counterterrorism director, said all significant FISA rulings would be reviewed for declassification. But no new opinions were declassified under the initiative.
The House last year turned back attempts to require public reports on the general outlines of the government’s surveillance programs. The various disclosure proposals, offered by Democratic Reps. Bobby Scott (Va.), Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.) and Sheila Jackson Lee (Tex.), were defeated by the Judiciary Committee.
In the Senate, amendments to provide modest disclosures and declassifications, offered by Wyden and fellow Democratic Sens. Jeff Merkley (Ore.) and Mark Udall (Colo.) during the FISA renewal in December, were all defeated.
The FISA court itself colluded in the secrecy. After senators asked the court to provide declassified summaries of its decisions, the chief FISA judge, Reggie B. Walton, responded with a letter on March 27 citing “serious obstacles” to the request.
“It was a shoddy performance all around,” Aftergood said Monday. “The pervasive secrecy on this topic created an information vacuum. If congressional oversight was not going to fill it in, it turned out leaks would. That’s not the optimal solution.”
Not optimal, but probably inevitable. Officials who denied the public a responsible debate on surveillance will now have a debate on Snowden’s terms — and there’s no use in bellyaching about it.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
Has this been discussed? http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/06/obama-verizon-cell-phone
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:24 (ten years ago) link
Re Eichenwald's piece, defenders of the program always say that such data has been useful (but then they say that national security prevents them from telling one how). There was also a New Rebublic article saying that NSA andothers are so bogged down in huge data scooping that they are missing out on following up on real, hard data.
I heard constitutional law scholar Floyd Abrams on a radio show saying that the NSA's legal authority to look at written phone data (but requiring a warrant to listen to a call) without a warrant comes from a 5 to 3 Supreme Court decision that he disagrees with.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:34 (ten years ago) link
that article amateurist posted is mostly OTM. in a way it's kind of sad that so many progressives (me included) seem to expect more from obama just because he was once a 'constitutional lawyer.' i held out hope for the guy as long as i could but even when i read 'the audacity of hope' back in 2007 it was sadly obvious that obama was way more enthusiastic about some mostly imaginary ideal of truman-era 'centrism,' an era when all the politicians were mostly sensible guys who played poker and cut deals, than he ever was about restoring civil liberties or reversing the bad trends of the bush era. i can't say i ever expected him to become basically the worst civil liberties president of the modern era but i'm sure he's justified it all to himself. when he writes his memoirs he'll probably come up with some eloquent gloss on why he let it all happen and everyone will be praising his wise moderation or whatever.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:43 (ten years ago) link
Or a decent haircut!
― kate78, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:45 (ten years ago) link
josh marshall has been particularly boneheaded on all of this.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/06/like_the_oj_simpson_trial.php?ref=fpblg
you know something is awry when your rambling defense starts out with OJ and includes about 10-15 strawmen arguments.
But it’s more than that. Snowden is doing more than triggering a debate. I think it’s clear he’s trying to upend, damage - choose your verb - the US intelligence apparatus and policieis he opposes. The fact that what he’s doing is against the law speaks for itself. I don’t think anyone doubts that narrow point. But he’s not just opening the thing up for debate. He’s taking it upon himself to make certain things no longer possible, or much harder to do. To me that’s a betrayal.
― Z S, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
well he only made 122k, barely enough to live on after taxes and ron paul donations
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
In what way are these things no longer possible or harder to do? I mean, the NSA is still doing this, right?
― Panaïs Pnin (The Yellow Kid), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:50 (ten years ago) link
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/11/david_brooks_the_last_stalinist/
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:52 (ten years ago) link
Re Eichenwald's piece, defenders of the program always say that such data has been useful (but then they say that national security prevents them from telling one how).
Directly from Eichenwald's article:
What was the purpose of bringing in so much information? As a moment’s thought would make clear, this wasn’t about inspecting random people’s individual activities. Instead, the National Security Agency puts the information through a larger process known as “knowledge discovery in database”—or K.D.D.—which cleans, selects, integrates, and analyzes the data. It is also run against a large set of what are known as “dirty numbers”—telephones linked to terrorists either through American signals intelligence or information provided by foreign services. Even the Libyans under Qaddafi turned over huge stacks of dirty numbers to us.
So, on its simplest level, the program—part of a broader enterprise codenamed Stellar Wind, which includes the now infamous warrantless-wiretapping initiative—allows the government to detect when someone in the United States calls a dirty number. (For those who love irony, one of the first phones found to have placed a call to a dirty number was located in the West Wing of the Bush White House; investigators determined it was a fluke, although it did raise questions about the integrity of such inquiries.)
In addition, as part of K.D.D., an algorithm was applied to the broader data set in efforts to detect patterns of behavior fitting models that had been previously established as being indicative of the activities of a terrorist cell. In regards to protecting individual privacy, the standards are strict. As I described it in the book:
The NSA would have no authority to pull up, say, some American’s email account out of curiosity. Anyone violating this ban could potentially be committing a crime, just as an unauthorized IRS employee sneaking a peek at an individual tax return could be cited for wrongdoing. But the stricture was largely theoretical; sifting through the metadata to isolate an (arbitrary) individual’s records would be an almost impossible—and pointless—undertaking.
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
Obviously the merits of this approach are debatable but it's kind of silly to respond to an article that provides a concrete example of how the data is being used with "but of course no one will tell us how the data is being used"
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
held out hope for the guy as long as i could but even when i read 'the audacity of hope' back in 2007 it was sadly obvious that obama was way more enthusiastic about some mostly imaginary ideal of truman-era 'centrism,' an era when all the politicians were mostly sensible guys who played poker and cut deals
He's also enamored of elites. So is most of Washington but Obama more so cuz he's one too.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:04 (ten years ago) link
Coming from this perspective, it’s hard to see any justification for what Manning did, which is basically downloading everything he could find and giving it to a foreign national (Assange) with the expectation that he’d just dump it into the public.
my god Marshall's being dense! This is not what Manning did!
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
x-post to DJP-I was referring to specific comments by Diane Feinstein and a Republican senator. They both played games when it came to success specifics, and I read a Digby blogpost noting that Feinstein had referred to things that actually were not successful. The "Stellar Wind" program I think was largely kept secret and has been criticized for all the data it has gathered. As for its alleged success in Libya, hopefully someone will make that more public. The New Republic had this re the lack of success with enormous data collection:
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113416/nsa-spying-scandal-data-mining-isnt-good-keeping-us-safe
x-post David Brooks and Jeffrey Toobin are also arguing that Snowden has made it harder for others to open things up; when the facts have made clear that Obama and the NSA and Congress and the majority on the courts,etc. are all perfectly fine with how things are, and they think this way works. That's why they wanted and still want it all to be secret.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
Another take on "Stellar Wind"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/17/1075217/-Wired-s-Mind-Blowing-Scoop-On-Stellar-Wind-And-The-Enormity-of-U-S-Domestic-Spying
Binney left the NSA in late 2001, shortly after the agency launched its warrantless-wiretapping program. “They violated the Constitution setting it up,” he says bluntly. “But they didn’t care. They were going to do it anyway, and they were going to crucify anyone who stood in the way. When they started violating the Constitution, I couldn’t stay.” Binney says Stellar Wind was far larger than has been publicly disclosed and included not just eavesdropping on domestic phone calls but the inspection of domestic email.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:18 (ten years ago) link
all the pro-snowden takes that include something like 'unlike that reckless traitor manning, who just dumped everything he found and endangered american lives, etc etc' are pretty maddening.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
There are also anti-Snowden people saying that Snowden was nearly as reckless as Manning because Snowden wanted to post even more NSA powerpoint slides than the Guardian decided to post. Plus Snowden went to the Washington Post first, and they would not agree to post everything the way he wanted.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
the big problem with that eichenwald article is exactly what the "truth out" article i linked above confronts directly. you shouldn't worry b/c they're only looking for metadata patterns that point to terrorist activity... but what if "terrorist activity" were expanded to nearly any form of dissent.... i mean, this is hardly a fantasy as we know that some occupy and other activists have been tracked by police depts and the FBI. in fact rather than a fantasy it seems an inevitability.
why is this so hard for people pundits to understand????
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:31 (ten years ago) link
I agree that is a serious problem/concern.
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:32 (ten years ago) link
ya i wouldn't wanna be Z S or a hoos rn
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:33 (ten years ago) link
well, i would but yanno
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:34 (ten years ago) link
coursera helpfully reminds me today that the crypto class i signed up for starts in a few days
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:32 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i'd say it's the central concern, at least for american citizens.
for foreigners it's being hit by a drone strike
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:37 (ten years ago) link
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/
"Top Secret America" is a project nearly two years in the making that describes the huge national security buildup in the United States after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.When it comes to national security, all too often no expense is spared and few questions are asked - with the result an enterprise so massive that nobody in government has a full understanding of it. It is, as Dana Priest and William M. Arkin have found, ubiquitous, often inefficient and mostly invisible to the people it is meant to protect and who fund it.The articles in this series and an online database at topsecretamerica.com depict the scope and complexity of the government's national security program through interactive maps and other graphics. Every data point on the Web site is substantiated by at least two public records.
When it comes to national security, all too often no expense is spared and few questions are asked - with the result an enterprise so massive that nobody in government has a full understanding of it. It is, as Dana Priest and William M. Arkin have found, ubiquitous, often inefficient and mostly invisible to the people it is meant to protect and who fund it.
The articles in this series and an online database at topsecretamerica.com depict the scope and complexity of the government's national security program through interactive maps and other graphics. Every data point on the Web site is substantiated by at least two public records.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:39 (ten years ago) link
xp: The flipside is that the resources necessary to hunt down every protester in the United States makes doing so an untenable project unless you have a large target like the original scale of the Occupy movements, which to my understanding were monitored and dicked around by municipal governments but not by state/federal? (This is a very limited understanding; I freely admit that I am giving impressions and not facts here.) I don't think you can reasonably participate in civil disobedience and not expect some form of institutional attention; the real issue is if this institutional attention manifests itself as punitive retribution for assembling to criticize the government. I know people have been arrested and hurt; I think anyone participating in a protest is aware that could be a possibility. My question is more along the lines of, "Are the people participating in these protests suddenly finding that they can't get work anywhere or that police/government agents are confronting them in contexts unrelated to their actual protests?" That is the type of action this type of analysis would pop up (actually IIRC there are people who have found themselves running into issues flying places, contradicting my first statement here? I could also see this info being used to corral and deport people who are not in the country legally).
I don't really know where I stand on this issue; there is a certain level where I feel like I've already been under this scrutiny my entire life due to being a minority in America, so from a personal standpoint (and particularly coming from a professional background that works on applications designed to manipulate large amounts of data using similar algorithms for a completely different context) I don't feel like my privacy is any more compromised than it has been. There are no concrete facts to back up that personal impression, however, and I also don't believe it is in the federal government's interest or intent to use this information to confront 99.9999999% of the population living here right now. There's no guarantee that won't change in the future, possibly even in my lifetime, but it seems much more likely to me that the country's attitude towards guns are going to have more of a direct impact on the average American's life, particularly when you look at all of the information reported into government agencies jut by virtue of paying taxes, responding to the census, voting and traveling into/out of the country.
Does anyone know if credit card information is also being pulled into this net? Because that means the government basically knows whenever you rent a car or check into a hotel.
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:55 (ten years ago) link
would imagine that the credit card companies don't take much persuading
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
The flipside is that the resources necessary to hunt down every protester in the United States makes doing so an untenable project unless you have a large target like the original scale of the Occupy movements, which to my understanding were monitored and dicked around by municipal governments but not by state/federal?
this wasn't even a large target really
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:00 (ten years ago) link
Sure, but a concentrated number of people protesting in a public/semi-public space is more of a target than two people bitching about banks in an AOL chat.
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:03 (ten years ago) link
DJP it's well known that police dept's in numerous cities w/ occupy movements were helped/coordinated by dep't of homeland security--both in terms of military-style tactics+equipment but also "profiling" of dissenters, etc. there were a bunch of articles about this in mainstream newspapers that i'm too lazy to look for right now.
just to posit a recent example of the federal security apparatus being used to help local govt's keep tabs on/detain/etc. protestors as opposed to "terrorists"
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:18 (ten years ago) link
"The 41 percent of Americans who disapprove of secret NSA phone-record collection included 34 percent of Democrats -- about half the proportion who disapproved of surveillance tactics in the Bush Administration."
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/06/the-obama-surveillance-revelations-are-pushing-liberals-over-the-edge/276755/
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:41 (ten years ago) link
it's not that they were principled then but are hypocrites now. they were partisans then and remain so. maybe some of the democrats who disapproved then but approve now are finally following the mandate of their heart which thirsts for authoritarian repression but they disliked bush too much to express it earlier.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:44 (ten years ago) link
eh that's all true but that pew poll is all like "court orders" "everyone's gonna die waddaya think" & then is reported like everyone's fine with what's been going on
court orders for "millions of americans" still doesn't mean "me"
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
they asked two different questions. the 2006 question says "without court approval." i thought it was very bad then, and think it is bad now, but the fact that there was no fisa authorization under bush was significant then, and is significant now.
― Let's Talk Tech with Curr3n$y (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 23:13 (ten years ago) link
it's not that they were principled then but are hypocrites now. they were partisans then and remain so. maybe some of the democrats who disapproved then but approve now are finally following the mandate of their heart which thirsts for authoritarian repression but they disliked bush too much to express it earlier.― Mordy , Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:44 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy , Tuesday, June 11, 2013 5:44 PM (56 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes, this is why i posted it.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 23:40 (ten years ago) link
right the survey questions still assume a "trade off" b/t civil liberties and safety, replicating obama's own discourse
but i've yet to see any real evidence that this sort of wholesale disregard for constitutionally-protected liberties is actually preventing terrorism
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 June 2013 23:42 (ten years ago) link
ACLU sues
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/06/aclu-sues-four-top-obama-administration-officials-over-verizon-metadata-sharing/
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 00:13 (ten years ago) link
glad I still write checks to them
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 00:16 (ten years ago) link
my membership lapsed a while back - i should get back on that
― Z S, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 00:26 (ten years ago) link
yeah big up aclu
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 00:57 (ten years ago) link
https://www.aclu.org/secure/setup-monthly-pledge?s_src=UNV130001C00&ms=web_menu_monthly
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 01:49 (ten years ago) link
not "loyalty oath but a contract, & a less important one than the social contract a democracy has with its citizenry"http://t.co/A7k13Egg11
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 02:13 (ten years ago) link
yes
― the late great, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 03:51 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/surveillance-a-threat-to-democracy.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/surveillance-snowden-doesnt-rise-to-traitor.html
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 03:54 (ten years ago) link
Dirty Bomb Blows Liberty (from WSJ)
Last week, the Guardian newspaper reported that the National Security Agency collected phone records on millions of Verizon customers, and the Obama administration defended the move. The Guardian and Washington Post also reported that the NSA has a top-secret operation, dubbed Prism, which taps directly into the servers of nine leading Internet companies. Does President Obama know something that Senator Obama did not? Or did the corrosion of our civil liberties take on a life of its own, independent of any elected leader?It's as if a terrorist set off a dirty bomb that is slowly spreading tyranny instead of radiation.Access to phone data allows government officials to track individuals. It reveals who is calling whom, from where and with what frequency. Thanks to data-crunching technology, it can discover networking patterns in seconds—ferreting out suspected terrorist cells, criminal organizations or maybe just some people the government doesn't like.This is an administration with a taxing authority that has harassed politically opposed groups. It is an administration that wiretaps Associated Press and Fox News. Even the New York Times editorial board says President Obama "has lost all credibility."Maybe you still trust the current president, but will you trust the next one? Maybe you believe phone data will catch a terrorist today, but do you know how it will be used tomorrow?"No one set of data ever stays by itself," Ian Glazer, a security and privacy expert for global technology adviser Gartner, said in a telephone interview. "This Verizon data will be combined with other data. And when you start combing…it becomes more tantalizing, and potentially more privacy invasive."Some people aren't alarmed, noting they've got nothing to hide. But they're wrong to think it's normal for the government to monitor law-abiding citizens. "There's a reason why our toilets are not in our living rooms," Mr. Glazer said. "You're not doing anything wrong when you go to the bathroom, but it's still something you want to keep private.
It's as if a terrorist set off a dirty bomb that is slowly spreading tyranny instead of radiation.
Access to phone data allows government officials to track individuals. It reveals who is calling whom, from where and with what frequency. Thanks to data-crunching technology, it can discover networking patterns in seconds—ferreting out suspected terrorist cells, criminal organizations or maybe just some people the government doesn't like.
This is an administration with a taxing authority that has harassed politically opposed groups. It is an administration that wiretaps Associated Press and Fox News. Even the New York Times editorial board says President Obama "has lost all credibility."
Maybe you still trust the current president, but will you trust the next one? Maybe you believe phone data will catch a terrorist today, but do you know how it will be used tomorrow?
"No one set of data ever stays by itself," Ian Glazer, a security and privacy expert for global technology adviser Gartner, said in a telephone interview. "This Verizon data will be combined with other data. And when you start combing…it becomes more tantalizing, and potentially more privacy invasive."
Some people aren't alarmed, noting they've got nothing to hide. But they're wrong to think it's normal for the government to monitor law-abiding citizens. "There's a reason why our toilets are not in our living rooms," Mr. Glazer said. "You're not doing anything wrong when you go to the bathroom, but it's still something you want to keep private.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 06:42 (ten years ago) link
that's a crappy analogy (see what I did there?) but otherwise otm
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 07:18 (ten years ago) link
reminded me of public shitting in 1984
― the late great, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 07:21 (ten years ago) link
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, June 11, 2013 4:24 PM (Yesterday)
so...i think maybe all this talk of "privacy" is a red herring. i don't care that the government knows i called waterface's mom for ten minutes, or that they know i have a certain medical condition. i guess i'd rather they didn't, but ultimately it doesn't matter - i care that the government can use this information, where i was when i made the call, etc, against me in court without having to prove to a judge that there was probable cause for obtaining that information. that's what the 4th amendment is about; it's not about "privacy" in like, the personal everyday sense
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 09:28 (ten years ago) link
nytimes editorial completely otm
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 09:57 (ten years ago) link
This morning I caught a TV tuned to FOX news, and the chyron on the screen, over a shot of Google HQ, read: CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS/GOOGLE CEO MADE MORE THAN $70K IN DONATIONS. Turn to page 23 in the Outrage Handbook, FOX viewers -- corporations are no longer people and corporate money in politics is bad. Pages 14-18 are no longer operative.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:02 (ten years ago) link
the hypocrisy is really thick on "both sides."
all the obama-stan "liberals" are really showing their true colors over this. my partner briefly tuned into air america and she said it was all mocking and attacking snowden.
disgusted by the lack of independent thought on display.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:32 (ten years ago) link
out of curiosity how are they spinning this at MSNBC? (i don't have cable, and right now I am _very_ grateful for that)
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:34 (ten years ago) link
curious to see what all of the ex-bush/obama officials have to say on the subject?
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 11:41 (ten years ago) link
For real. Pleased to some degree to see rookie I would have expected to line up in support are instead raising hell, but the number of liberals defending this shit is nauseating.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:21 (ten years ago) link
out of curiosity how are they spinning this at MSNBC?
Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow support him, dunno about Mr. Thrill Going Up His Leg.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
Check this out: http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/06/11/the-nsa-and-insurrectionists-vs-institutionalists/
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:26 (ten years ago) link
I thought air America was defunct.
― Let's Talk Tech with Curr3n$y (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:28 (ten years ago) link
@DennisThePerrin Obama liberals and Tea Party reactionaries are kissing cousins. The next generation is secured. #progress #USA
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:34 (ten years ago) link
weird timing for that comment being that this is probably the best example yet of the far left and tea party being on the same side
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:43 (ten years ago) link
Otm
― Let's Talk Tech with Curr3n$y (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:45 (ten years ago) link
tea partiers are the largest block in congress angry about this. i'm decidedly more, uh, hamiltonian about this than almost all of you but am still a little disgusted (and maybe shocked but i just got cable again so grain of salt) at how quickly this turned into 'what's yr take on edward snowden', so much for an honest debate on the security state. weigel had a thing today about the history of (generally failed) efforts at reducing overclassification: www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/06/edward_snowden_nsa_leaks_can_congress_get_the_executive_branch_to_declassify.html .
― balls, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:47 (ten years ago) link
Monday was closer to "Edward Snowden: Hero or Traitor?" day on cable news, yesterday a lot better, can't wait for matters to deteriorate today.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 12:53 (ten years ago) link
― Let's Talk Tech with Curr3n$y (Hunt3r), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:28 AM (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh well whatever it's the local "progressive" talk radio station w/ a lot of syndicated shows
my partner listens to it sometimes, i can't take more than 30 seconds
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:12 (ten years ago) link
Finally, Alex and Chris Hayes discussed the public’s confusion over the surveillance issue as evidenced by a new Pew Research poll that shows Democrats and Republicans have essentially switched positions on the issue since Barack Obama replaced George W. Bush in the White House. In essence, members of the public appear more inclined to believe government surveillance was okay if it took place under the party to which they felt most closely aligned.
this point kind of contradicts the articles larger argument about insurrectionists (!!) vs. institutionalists
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:16 (ten years ago) link
We are fine, no need to panic, this isn't 1984 yet
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:16 (ten years ago) link
i think it's the more germane point, though
xpost
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:17 (ten years ago) link
my partner briefly tuned into air america and she said it was all mocking and attacking snowden.
It would be interesting to know who these hosts are, since a lot of real ex-Air America hosts (Maddow, Sam Seder, Cenk) are praising this guy. But then there's Franken.
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:20 (ten years ago) link
richard clarke - http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/worry-nsa-article-1.1369705
― balls, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:21 (ten years ago) link
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 7:25 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
support snowden or obama?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:27 (ten years ago) link
snowman
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:29 (ten years ago) link
i feel like maybe kanye should postpone the release of his album just to drink this all in, you know
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
Snowden is actually Iceman in In The Loop.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:31 (ten years ago) link
who's the jackass now?
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:34 (ten years ago) link
?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:37 (ten years ago) link
that's kanye responding to obama
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 13:54 (ten years ago) link
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 12:26 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
reading digby calling herself an insurrectionist sort of made me lol
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:01 (ten years ago) link
what the fuck is this shit
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/us/nsa-snowden-girlfriend
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:20 (ten years ago) link
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130611165225-linsay-mills-story-body.jpg
In a post on her blog, Lindsay Mills -- who described herself as a "pole-dancing superhero" -- said she was typing on a "tear-streaked keyboard."
"For those of you that know me without my super hero cape, you can probably understand why I'll be refraining from blog posts for awhile. My world has opened and closed all at once. Leaving me lost at sea without a compass," she wrote Monday, a day after American and British newspapers published Snowden's identity as the source behind their reports on the U.S. surveillance programs.
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
Sounds like CNN taking the "lost at sea" stuff on the blog seriously
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:24 (ten years ago) link
he gave up a $400k job and a stripper girlfriend just to protect our freedoms
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:24 (ten years ago) link
Wolf Blitzer reporting live from Lindsay Mills' window
― da croupier, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:25 (ten years ago) link
becoming an enemy of the state and fleeing to hong kong's always been on my list of ways to avoid the breakup conversation too
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
fyi anyone checking out her flickr account has been flagged by the nsa
― da croupier, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:27 (ten years ago) link
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/assets_c/2013/06/snowden-girlfriend-cropped-proto-custom_28.jpg
rescuing her from the grasp of the security state
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 2:27 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
haha max tweeted something abt "Edward Snowden in The World's Most Elaborate Way To Break Up With Your Girlfriend" that made me lol
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:37 (ten years ago) link
members of the public appear more inclined to believe government surveillance was okay if it took place under the party to which they felt most closely aligned
basically Seinfeld's "rooting for laundry" assessment of sports fandom works for the National Infotainment State.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:42 (ten years ago) link
unlimited fixin's at the baked potato bar though. you gotta give credit where credit is due.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
Supposedly he's still in HK, HK paper SCMP alledgedly spoke to him
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
I don't think it's necessarily hypocritical actually. the idea that some democrats are willing to give the federal gov't the benefit of the doubt when obama is in charge but didn't trust the federal gov't when george w. bush was in charge (and vice versa) shouldn't be shocking. it reflects a short-term view of things but it's not irrational.
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
it is irrational since Dick Cheney is sorta proud of O at this point
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
it's incredibly fucking nearsighted, bordering on absolute stupidity tho
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
most people don't have fleshed out views on these things
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
In a post on her blog, Lindsay Mills -- who described herself as a "pole-dancing superhero" -- said she was typing on a "Dr. Pepper-streaked keyboard."
― ttyih boi (crüt), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:55 (ten years ago) link
I posted that gf stuff yesterday already tbh, I must be killfiled iirc
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
I was surprised nobody posted that gf stuff yet, the news came out yesterday
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
:-)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
don't mean to be glib, coz this is important stuff, and i was actually involved in campaigning against the uk RIP act back in 1999/2000, but seriously, something about the way this guy snowden looks on the guardian website makes my skin crawl, and he's been there at the top of the front page for like 5 days.
― caek, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:19 (ten years ago) link
It's as if a terrorist set off a dirty bomb that is slowly spreading snowden's face instead of radiation.
― more tequila-fueled pants-shitting revue from (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
am i the only one here who has roughly zero faith that all of these "protections" in the form of indiscriminate data mining and algorithm-driven identifications of communications "patterns" will actually result in a thwarted terrorist attack? i can't be alone, right?
unless the NSA can prove to us that their methods actually get results (nobody in the administration has pointed to any examples, and we have a pretty flagrant counterexample in the form of the boston bombings), it's hard to take the very notion of a "trade off" between liberty and safety seriously. my sense is that they don't know what else to do, and the security apparatus interprets its remit broadly and by its nature develops more and more intrusive and expansive powers.
so to my mind this whole "debate"--at least as it's been framed in the MSM-- is happening on terms I can't recognize as legit.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:47 (ten years ago) link
the fbi has successfully thwrted plenty of its own terrorist plots in the last decade or so!
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
which ones? and did ubiquitous electronic surveillance play a role?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
I believe KK means the entrapment kind they set up
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
"its own" was supposed to signal my sarcasm, lol
xp yep
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
btw David O Russell has an Abscam (google it) movie coming out this fall, so the '70s are BACK BABY!
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
except for the Democratic Party now being what we called rightwing Republicans back then
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
ARGO, ABSCAM, when do we get to the B's?
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130611191623-lindsay-mills-02-story-body.jpg
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
I posted that gf stuff yesterday already tbh, I must be killfiled iirc― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, June 12, 2013 10:59 AMi don't read threads before posting :B
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113416/nsa-spying-scandal-data-mining-isnt-good-keeping-us-safe― curmudgeon, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This article explains why using big data to automate statistical prediction of terrorist threats is unlikely to work well - there's minimal data to learn from.
― high inerja (seandalai), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
right--there aren't enough precedents for them to know what to look for. add that to the mountains of data they have to sift through....
disturbingly i feel like such a system would be better at tracing domestic dissenters, predicting rallies, etc. i'm not paranoid enough to think that it's what PRISM was designed for, but it will surely come in handy some day soon.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 11:47 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
having just finished Lawrence Wright's excellent The Looming Tower a few days ago, and suffering through instance after instance after instance of the CIA holding critical shit back from the FBI because oh no what if the FBI actually arrests these guys then our spy game will be ruined!1!1! I have to be curious how much that kind of divisional hatred might still be hindering anti-terrorism measures today...
― folsom country prism (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
this is not enough of a problem for it to be a problem that needs to be solved
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, June 12, 2013 9:04 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
For the sake of clarity, data mining solves the "mountains of data" problem. The lack of precedents makes data mining ineffective.
― more tequila-fueled pants-shitting revue from (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
Maybe I'm dense, but wtf does his girlfriend have to do with this? This story isn't about Snowden, who is just some 29 year old geek, f'r chissake. It's about the information Snowden released to the public and what that information means. He's just the gap through which this info emerged. The details of his life mean nothing.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
stripper girlfriend and snowden's income are more interesting news stories to a lot of people than anything with the word 'metadata'
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
i'm more concerned about snowden not visiting his mother on a regular basis.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:13 (ten years ago) link
fkin atomized millenials
― folsom country prism (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
he can still snapchat her, snapchat isn't working w/ the NSA yet
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
no more gentle gradation in society. I have a brother --> I have a neighbor --> I have an omnipotent/omniscient lord and savior divided but also unified through 3 persons --> I have an overlord.
― more tequila-fueled pants-shitting revue from (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
nothing abrupt or confusing about that
― more tequila-fueled pants-shitting revue from (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 17:21 (ten years ago) link
the idea of a 'trade-off' is just nice-sounding bullshit anyway, nothing in this program is going to be modified in the name of protecting civil liberties unless there's an overwhelming and sustained watergate-style public outcry.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
This guy is keeping us safe
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/06/fire_dni_james_clapper_he_lied_to_congress_about_nsa_surveillance.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper
He's been wrong about a few things in the past I see. attempted to explain the absence of WMDs in Iraq by asserting that the weapons materials were "unquestionably" shipped out of Iraq Syria and other countries just before the American invasion,
commented on the 2011 Libyan civil war saying that "over the longer term" Gaddafi "will prevail"
The Prez nominated him for his current position and the Senate approved him unanimously
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013
she was a stripper? poledancer isn't synonymous with stripper in 2013
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
I'm glad Tom Friedman knows how to keep us safe.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
when he's sunk to cribbing from TV producers, tsk
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
Longtime NSA-observer James Bamford on building the national security state (Chicago Tribune)
In a much-cited story, the influential Republican statesman, Henry L. Stimson, was described as deeply offended by the very notion of snooping into people's private communications. As the new secretary of state in 1929, Stimson shut down the Black Chamber with the now immortal phrase, "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail."But when President Franklin D. Roosevelt later appointed Stimson secretary of war during World War Two, Stimson changed his mind. He wanted to eavesdrop on every possible communication, especially on the Germans and Japanese.Once the guns of World War Two began falling silent, however, the communications privacy laws again took effect. Thus, Brigadier General W. Preston Corderman, the chief of the Signals Intelligence Service - another pre-NSA iteration — faced the same dilemma Yardley confronted after World War One: a lack of access to the cables flowing into, out of and through the country.So, once again, deals were made with the major telegraph companies - the Internet providers of the day - to grant the SIS (and later the NSA) secret access to their communications.Codenamed "Operation Shamrock," agents would arrive at the back door at each telecom headquarters in New York around midnight; pick up all that days telegraph traffic, and bring it to an office masquerading as a television tape processing company. There they would use a machine to duplicate all the computer tapes containing the telegrams, and, hours later, return the original tapes to the company.The secret agreement lasted for 30 years. It only ended in 1975, when the nation was shocked by a series of stunning intelligence revelations uncovered by a congressional investigation led by Senator Frank Church.
But when President Franklin D. Roosevelt later appointed Stimson secretary of war during World War Two, Stimson changed his mind. He wanted to eavesdrop on every possible communication, especially on the Germans and Japanese.
Once the guns of World War Two began falling silent, however, the communications privacy laws again took effect. Thus, Brigadier General W. Preston Corderman, the chief of the Signals Intelligence Service - another pre-NSA iteration — faced the same dilemma Yardley confronted after World War One: a lack of access to the cables flowing into, out of and through the country.
So, once again, deals were made with the major telegraph companies - the Internet providers of the day - to grant the SIS (and later the NSA) secret access to their communications.
Codenamed "Operation Shamrock," agents would arrive at the back door at each telecom headquarters in New York around midnight; pick up all that days telegraph traffic, and bring it to an office masquerading as a television tape processing company. There they would use a machine to duplicate all the computer tapes containing the telegrams, and, hours later, return the original tapes to the company.
The secret agreement lasted for 30 years. It only ended in 1975, when the nation was shocked by a series of stunning intelligence revelations uncovered by a congressional investigation led by Senator Frank Church.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:05 (ten years ago) link
If the revelations are so stunning, how come I've never heard of Operation Shamrock Shake?????
― copter (waterface), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:10 (ten years ago) link
Why did Michael Morell go, or why was he sent away?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
New Yorker profile on Bamford
“The Shadow Factory,” Bamford’s rageful 2008 book about the N.S.A.’s current troubles, is probably the most relevant of Bamford’s books today. In it, he describes an agency that has become increasingly cavalier about what data it will collect, and from whom. As one official told Bamford, “It’s what the N.S.A.’s been doing since 9/11. They’re just sweeping the stuff up.” Hayden, by this time, has been made into “a three-star sycophant unwilling to protect the agency from the destructive forces of Cheney and David Addington,” Cheney’s chief of staff. Whereas “Body of Secrets” referenced Borges, “The Shadow Factory” alludes to Orwell.Particularly irksome is the suspicion that, as far as spy agencies are concerned, the N.S.A. just isn’t very good: Bamford said it has “failed badly” in preventing attacks since the Cold War, missing everything from the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 to the recent Boston Marathon bombing. That’s partly because, as the agency has been inundated with so much data, it has perhaps lost the ability to evaluate information in a timely manner. You need people to point out patterns, to say what is relevant and what is not. Or, as Bamford puts it in “A Pretext for War,” the “N.S.A. needs human intelligence sources to help tell it where, and to whom, to listen.” In the past, a rivalry with the C.I.A.—which is largely responsible for human intelligence, in contrast to the N.S.A.’s general focus on data—had prevented that sort of symbiosis.At the root of Bamford’s fixation on the N.S.A. is a fascination with Americans’ willingness to “buy the company line” of spymasters, who assure us that the letter of the law is being followed, that civil liberties are respected, even as evidence accumulates suggesting the opposite. It seems we want to believe that those charged with protecting us may occasionally break the law, but will only do it to keep us safe, the way the roguish patriot Carrie Mathison, played by Claire Danes, routinely does on the TV show “Homeland.”All this has made Bamford increasingly outraged. Though he refused to gloat during our conversation, it was clear that he felt vindicated for all his years of dogged pursuit. And he is still angry, as angry as he was back in 1982, when few Americans had ever heard of Crypto City. Surprisingly apolitical, Bamford simply wants the spies to account for what they do before they do it: “You want to do this?” he says of the N.S.A.’s Prism program. “Put a bill through Congress. Have a public debate.”
Particularly irksome is the suspicion that, as far as spy agencies are concerned, the N.S.A. just isn’t very good: Bamford said it has “failed badly” in preventing attacks since the Cold War, missing everything from the first World Trade Center attack in 1993 to the recent Boston Marathon bombing. That’s partly because, as the agency has been inundated with so much data, it has perhaps lost the ability to evaluate information in a timely manner. You need people to point out patterns, to say what is relevant and what is not. Or, as Bamford puts it in “A Pretext for War,” the “N.S.A. needs human intelligence sources to help tell it where, and to whom, to listen.” In the past, a rivalry with the C.I.A.—which is largely responsible for human intelligence, in contrast to the N.S.A.’s general focus on data—had prevented that sort of symbiosis.
At the root of Bamford’s fixation on the N.S.A. is a fascination with Americans’ willingness to “buy the company line” of spymasters, who assure us that the letter of the law is being followed, that civil liberties are respected, even as evidence accumulates suggesting the opposite. It seems we want to believe that those charged with protecting us may occasionally break the law, but will only do it to keep us safe, the way the roguish patriot Carrie Mathison, played by Claire Danes, routinely does on the TV show “Homeland.”
All this has made Bamford increasingly outraged. Though he refused to gloat during our conversation, it was clear that he felt vindicated for all his years of dogged pursuit. And he is still angry, as angry as he was back in 1982, when few Americans had ever heard of Crypto City. Surprisingly apolitical, Bamford simply wants the spies to account for what they do before they do it: “You want to do this?” he says of the N.S.A.’s Prism program. “Put a bill through Congress. Have a public debate.”
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), who questioned Alexander about the section, wanted specific figures about what attacks had been averted.
Not yet, responded Alexander. But he vowed to have them soon.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/06/12/live-updates-cybersecurity-hearing/?hpid=z1#liveblog-entry-46364
Soon
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:13 (ten years ago) link
exaflop is a word that makes me laugh
but otherwise :/
Bamford's book 'The Puzzle Palace' is a great read, of course dated now but a good history of the NSA. I still need to read Shadow Factory.
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:16 (ten years ago) link
Shadow Factory is outstanding. Definitely check it out.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
I will!
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/snowden-wants-people-of-hong-kong-to-decide-my-fate/2013/06/12/a69e94ee-d370-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html
He added, “I have had many opportunities to flee HK, but I would rather stay and fight the United States government in the courts, because I have faith in Hong Kong’s rule of law.”
suchhhh a paulite
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:26 (ten years ago) link
for $200,000 he can eat a lot of dim sum
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:32 (ten years ago) link
i don't think i can even bring myself to read that friedman piece. is it as bad as i expect?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:35 (ten years ago) link
aw hell be a man!
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:36 (ten years ago) link
Don't read it. You can still be a man J.D. without reading Lil' Tommy Friedman. Go read something good. Something else. You should never read anything by Tommy F.
― copter (waterface), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:37 (ten years ago) link
oh god he just quoted fuckin' david simon
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:43 (ten years ago) link
Someone else is having a ball quoting Simon
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
ppl keep saying they want more 'nuanced' takes on this -- and i agree! -- but i'm afraid that what they mean is stuff like:
So I don’t believe that Edward Snowden, the leaker of all this secret material, is some heroic whistle-blower. No, I believe Snowden is someone who needed a whistle-blower.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:52 (ten years ago) link
The Three Stooges-- Sully, Friedman, and D. Simon
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
It sounds like his girlfriend Sally Stripper blew his whistle plenty, am I right, guys? ;)
― copter (waterface), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
do we know for sure that it was tears on her keyboard
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:55 (ten years ago) link
A few weeks ago, at a Reuters summit on cybersecurity, Gen. Keith Alexander said, “The great irony is we’re the only ones not spying on the American people.”
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 20:58 (ten years ago) link
guam is spying on us??
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:09 (ten years ago) link
read that as: gwar is spying on us??
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:12 (ten years ago) link
This is in the first row of results for GISing "gwar spying":
http://184.173.194.236/~worm64/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/gwar_santorum.jpg
I do not know why.
― high inerja (seandalai), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:16 (ten years ago) link
I'm getting to the point where I wish Orwell had never written '1984'. The Right referencing it whenever 'political correctness' was mentioned was bad enough, but now I can't read anything without it being invoked.
― the so-called socialista (dowd), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:29 (ten years ago) link
we should force everyone to call it 'nineteen eighty-four.'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
the gwar on terrorism
― am0n, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
the clapper in that link from above:
Clapper’s deceptions don’t stop there. Rambling on in his rationalization to Mitchell, he focused on Wyden’s use of the word “collect,” as in “Did the NSA collect any type of data ... on millions of Americans?” Clapper told Mitchell that he envisioned a vast library of books containing vast amounts of data on every American. “To me,” he said, “collection of U.S. persons’ data would mean taking the book off the shelf and opening it up and reading it.”
that is either insanely idiotic or a total lie
― Z S, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 22:59 (ten years ago) link
clappertrap
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:01 (ten years ago) link
if you're going to obfuscate, fucking obfuscate
to repeat my favorite and most oft-used phrase: don't piss on me and tell me it's raining
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:03 (ten years ago) link
"either"
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:17 (ten years ago) link
this is any selfrespecting tabloid's headline tho
Clapper told Mitchell that he envisioned a vast library of books containing vast amounts of data on every American.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:18 (ten years ago) link
i meant pullquote
how borgesian!
― Z S, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
iknorite can't get over vision of him wandering blissfully but officiously through the stacks
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:34 (ten years ago) link
"collecting" a book here and there
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:35 (ten years ago) link
where IS that copy of Fanny Hill, it's never on the shelves
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:39 (ten years ago) link
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/Terrorist_300.jpg/200px-Terrorist_300.jpg
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:40 (ten years ago) link
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmwrz0BwsT1qd9gmo.jpg
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:44 (ten years ago) link
http://image.lyricspond.com/image/d/artist-david-byrne/album-look-into-the-eyeball/cd-cover.jpg
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:45 (ten years ago) link
iatee is it tru u went down your local poledancing class & called them all strippers, later telling police, "it's ok i'm a liberal! hilary 2016!!!"?
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:56 (ten years ago) link
its tru
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 June 2013 23:57 (ten years ago) link
remember romney said binders full of women and everyone acted like it was somehow funny or notable for some reason, idk it was so long ago they were strange times
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Thursday, 13 June 2013 00:02 (ten years ago) link
Obama has metadata full of women
― iatee, Thursday, 13 June 2013 00:03 (ten years ago) link
Clapper told Mitchell that he envisioned a vast library of books containing vast amounts of women.
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 13 June 2013 00:05 (ten years ago) link
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/snowden-says-nsa-hacked-china/
“We hack network backbones – like huge internet routers, basically – that give us access to the communications of hundreds of thousands of computers without having to hack every single one,” he said.Snowden said he wanted to expose the government’s hacking activity to show “the hypocrisy of the U.S. government when it claims that it does not target civilian infrastructure, unlike its adversaries….Not only does it do so, but it is so afraid of this being known that it is willing to use any means, such as diplomatic intimidation, to prevent this information from becoming public.”
Snowden said he wanted to expose the government’s hacking activity to show “the hypocrisy of the U.S. government when it claims that it does not target civilian infrastructure, unlike its adversaries….Not only does it do so, but it is so afraid of this being known that it is willing to use any means, such as diplomatic intimidation, to prevent this information from becoming public.”
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 13 June 2013 00:53 (ten years ago) link
pollin pollin pollin
http://www.gallup.com/poll/163043/americans-disapprove-government-surveillance-programs.aspxhttp://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588748/most-disapprove-of-govt-phone-snooping-of-ordinary-americans/
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 June 2013
abscam plays a big if backgrounded part in the popular motion picture Donnie Brasco
― time considered as a helix of semi-precious owns (zvookster), Thursday, 13 June 2013 00:54 (ten years ago) link
"Edward Snowden's online past revealed"
For all you potential whistleblowers here on ilx: this is what will happen if you come forward. I fear for Garu G the whistleblower tbh
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 13 June 2013 01:10 (ten years ago) link
If the President can kill any citizen with a flying death robot without a trial and people are fine with that....
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 13 June 2013 01:13 (ten years ago) link
just wait til they find his reddit account
― iatee, Thursday, 13 June 2013 01:22 (ten years ago) link
THERE IT IS -
http://ath-cdn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/slideshows-wide/061313Cartoon1_3.jpg
― balls, Thursday, 13 June 2013 03:57 (ten years ago) link
Snowden's online past looks super fucking mild
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 June 2013 04:20 (ten years ago) link
Totally. Plus that cartoon has the worst drawn t-shirt I've ever seen - thought he was holding a billboard at first.
― the so-called socialista (dowd), Thursday, 13 June 2013 05:28 (ten years ago) link
“We hack network backbones – like huge internet routers, basically – that give us access to the communications of hundreds of thousands of computers without having to hack every single one,” he said.
Relevant book on the early history of this type of wiretapping
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c5/BMBcover.jpg
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 13 June 2013 05:31 (ten years ago) link
Sadly paw at my man totem is kinda lolzy
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 13 June 2013 05:52 (ten years ago) link
the hazing/vilifying of snowden by the media is kind of shocking to me. shocking and hateful. it's like a host of putatively reasonable just become schoolyard bullies at the first opportunity.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 13 June 2013 08:04 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/us/nsa-chief-says-phone-record-logs-halted-terror-threats.html?hp&_r=1&
In a robust defense of the phone program, General Alexander said that it had been critical in helping to prevent “dozens of terrorist attacks” both in the United States and abroad and that the intelligence community was considering declassifying examples to better explain the program. He did not clarify whether the records used in such investigations would have been available through individual subpoenas without the database. He also later walked back the assertion slightly, saying the phone log database was used in conjunction with other programs.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 13 June 2013 08:20 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, I think if I was in power, my next move would be to make a programme on TV taking a hypothetical risk and go through step by step to demonstrate how the information is used, leading to the neutralisation of the hypothetical risk. Maybe even have Obama present it, lead you through it. It would be fairly easy to present an innocuous and effective process (no matter what the realities), and most people, when faced with the abstraction of all this data, will probably not be all that alarmed by it. Obviously this would just be propaganda, but it's what I would do if I believed in such a structure. The downside would perhaps be the revelation of techniques that have previously been secret, but that might be something the State will have to accept.
― the so-called socialista (dowd), Thursday, 13 June 2013 09:52 (ten years ago) link
At this point they are probably already working on a new similar and secret project. Spies will be spies.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 13 June 2013 12:18 (ten years ago) link
He said the surveillance programs were critical to unraveling terrorist plots at home and abroad. In particular, he cited the cases of Najibullah Zazi
That's from today's Washington Post quoting the head of NSA yesterday. But days before this testimony various sites have asserted that these programs were NOT what was key in Zazi. Alas, the senators did not do follow-up questions and the Post reporter didn't even use google
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/06/07/mike-rogers-as-confused-about-telecom-surveillance-as-he-is-about-drone-strikes/
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 13 June 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
more references to the debunking of n.s.a.'s Zazi story
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/06/11/18902828-did-the-nsa-stop-najibullah-zazi
The Associated Press' Adam Goldman explained that the NSA program was very likely irrelevant -- British intelligence had already identified an al Qaeda email address, and shared that information with U.S. officials. Zazi did, in fact, send an urgent message to that address, which ultimately led to his arrest before he could successfully murder a lot of people.
So, what does this have to do with NSA surveillance, metadata, and PRISM? Given what we know, nothing.
But maybe, the argument goes, British intelligence learned of the al Qaeda email address in the first place thanks NSA programs. Right? No, as it turns out, the address was found on a laptop when a different terrorist was captured in 2009.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 13 June 2013 15:15 (ten years ago) link
is Kathryn Bigelow at work on the NSA spin yet?
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 June 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
one time (and now again?) far-right blogger goes there:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/42124_Images-_Edward_Snowden_Modeling_Shoot_Found
― goole, Thursday, 13 June 2013 15:50 (ten years ago) link
Rick Perlstein suggests Greenwald made a mistake.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 13 June 2013 21:42 (ten years ago) link
man i hate that fawkes mask but that photo is a sight
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 00:02 (ten years ago) link
For all you potential whistleblowers here on ilx: this is what will happen if you come forward.
We are currently seeking a person of interest named Excelsior from the secret online collective known as 77 borad
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, 14 June 2013 00:32 (ten years ago) link
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/946661_496948723709933_306826955_n.jpg
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 02:26 (ten years ago) link
Jack Shafer:
Secrets are sacrosanct in Washington until officials find political expediency in either declassifying them or leaking them selectively. It doesn’t really matter which modern presidential administration you decide to scrutinize for this behavior, as all of them are guilty. For instance, President George W. Bush’s administration declassified or leaked whole barrels of intelligence, raw and otherwise, to convince the public and Congress making war on Iraq was a good idea. Bush himself ordered the release of classified prewar intelligence about Iraq through Vice President Dick Cheney and Chief of Staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby to New York Times reporter Judith Miller in July 2003.
Sometimes the index finger of government has no idea of what the thumb is up to. In 2007, Vice President Cheney went directly to Bush with his complaint about what he considered to be a damaging national security leak in a column by the Washington Post’s David Ignatius. “Whoever is leaking information like this to the press is doing a real disservice, Mr. President,” Cheney said. Later, Bush’s national security adviser paid a visit to Cheney to explain that Bush, um, had authorized him to make the leak to Ignatius.
In 2010, NBC News reporter Michael Isikoff detailed similar secrecy machinations by the Obama administration, which leaked to Bob Woodward “a wealth of eye-popping details from a highly classified briefing” to President-elect Barack Obama two days after the November 2008 election. Among the disclosures to appear in Woodward’s book “Obama’s Wars” were, Isikoff wrote, “the code names of previously unknown NSA programs, the existence of a clandestine paramilitary army run by the CIA in Afghanistan, and details of a secret Chinese cyberpenetration of Obama and John McCain campaign computers.”
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
holy shit the nsa knows our phone numbers now?
― balls, Friday, 14 June 2013 02:34 (ten years ago) link
yeah the white house leaking intel to political or policy advantage is as old as the hills, clinton managed to raise the game to an absurdly trivial level leaking things that would normally be rightly ignored - where they intended to take their summer vacation for example - and turning them into 'exclusives' (hilariously they would often poll this kind of data beforehand, in a weird way for the time it was a pretty sophisticated operation). occasionally there will be grumbling about investigating the leaks by the out of power party and occasionally the leak will be genuinely obv serious enough to provoke outrage and an actual investigation (hello again scooter libby) but by and large it's treated as another example of the kind of bullshit that works in politics. it's also obv an example of to what absurd degree overclassification has taken place, that the entire case for a war is made via leaks or that the existence of a massive program everybody (including the ppl it targeted) effectively knew existed can only be confirmed after many years via leak. and it's very effectiveness points to why the need for greater transparency, that it is such an effective tool w/ the press but that so much of what is classified can be de facto declassified and leaked to press not on the basis of national security but political expediency distorts and corrupts public debate. at the same time to not acknowledge that there is a gulf of differences between the white house leaking something and some independant contractor is to not get the difference between averill harriman and anna chennault.
― balls, Friday, 14 June 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/06/encrypted-e-mail-how-much-annoyance-will-you-tolerate-to-keep-the-nsa-away/
― caek, Friday, 14 June 2013 13:48 (ten years ago) link
otm
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 13:49 (ten years ago) link
http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/snowden-and-greenwald-beginning-to-self-destruct-the-nation-and-mother-jones-raise-questions/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 14 June 2013 14:11 (ten years ago) link
that kinda smacks of counter-narrative work, right down to the headline, though the small Kevin Drum piece it links seems good and avoids the pitfalls of narrative-building/unbuidling
― Oral Sex in Sharp’s Ridge Park (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 14 June 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
I also think more attention should be given to the misleading testimony of the head of the NSA and the Director of National Intelligence, and their histories
― curmudgeon, Friday, 14 June 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
some of the counter-narrative stuff strikes as akin to "if the glove don't fit, you must acquit" -- meaning if snowden and greenwald's claims aren't completely accurate, there's no longer any show. which seems far from the case.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 June 2013 14:32 (ten years ago) link
Should note that The Daily Banter, which I've never heard of, has been at this stuff all.week.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 14 June 2013 14:35 (ten years ago) link
I haven't heard of it either; just stumbled across it.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 14 June 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
false flag
― goole, Friday, 14 June 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
false blog
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
I'm just glad Beetbort didn't live to see any of this.
― hashtag sizzler (Phil D.), Friday, 14 June 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Friday, 14 June 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters this week that Obama “certainly believes that Director Clapper has been straight and direct in the answers that he’s given.”
― curmudgeon, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
maybe his heart and his best intentions tell him that's true, but the evidence, oh shit
― fill up at the ilx quipnjibe (Hunt3r), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
straight and direct has nothing to do with the truth, of course
― Z S, Friday, 14 June 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
Prism will help maintain order and vanquish pesky anti-Waterworld activists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/14/climate-change-energy-shocks-nsa-prism
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
"Climate Change Energy Shocks NSA Prism"
― high inerja (seandalai), Friday, 14 June 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
cool. gov't analysts and scenario planners foresee potential disaster. government's response is not to actually do anything to prevent disaster, but to let it roll on and control us instead. great.
― Spectrum, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
reminds me of that gov't memo that said we could all adapt and live in underground caves in case of climate change.
― Spectrum, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
Strangelove 2019
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
with shit like this I honestly wonder if we're nearing the end of the current order of things. wtf is going on.
― Spectrum, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
in fairness, Spectrum, they know it's too late to prevent it.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
xxpost giant bell jar or gtfo.
― folsom country prism (Jon Lewis), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
that whole article is so poorly argued
― iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
like the crux is linking this:
"Just last month, unilateral changes to US military laws formally granted the Pentagon extraordinary powers to intervene in a domestic "emergency" or "civil disturbance"
to random quotes from random reports
― iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
like its that dude's job to churn out blog posts about the environment so it's easy to see why he'd be tempted to try to link it to the subject du jour that is a nonsense article
― iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
but that*
but the pieces, they all fit. i hope the impression i'm getting from this is wrong.
― Spectrum, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
some of us don't give a shit about brilliantly argued articles, this ain't moot court
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
yes, the pieces being quotes from a bunch of different studies done by places that do thousands of nonsense studies
― iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
do you guys think obama subscribes to the DoD's "Quadrennial Defense Review"
I think he borrows Biden's copy
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
i'm on board with The World Is On Fire thesis, but iatee otm that the article is kinda hand-wavey
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
building a conspiracy on random quotes from the PR document the DoD releases seems like a bad plan
― iatee, Friday, 14 June 2013 18:48 (ten years ago) link
certainly the government is forecasting a variety of strategic scenarios for the future, climate-driven unrest among them, and the ongoing surveillance of/application of anti-terror laws & techniques against environmental activists is very real as well. the convergence of these two things does worry me quite a bit. reading that snippet of that forecast in that way, though, strikes me as a little Alex Jones-y.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:49 (ten years ago) link
yah
depends on what your definition of 'wittingly' is, man
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fdChg4P1wWY/0.jpg
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:50 (ten years ago) link
man why do still from 1999 look like 1980
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 14 June 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
Two writers from that site have a podcast "The Bubble Genius Bob & Chaz Show" that seems to be 100% devoted to attacking Greenwald and Sirota.
― mimicking regular benevloent (sic) users' names (President Keyes), Friday, 14 June 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
So we learn more about the confrontation in Ashcroft's hospital room in 2004.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 16 June 2013 12:09 (ten years ago) link
Yep.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/us-surveillance-architecture-includes-collection-of-revealing-internet-phone-metadata/2013/06/15/e9bf004a-d511-11e2-b05f-3ea3f0e7bb5a_story.html?hpid=z1
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 16 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
Oops, same linked article. Nucleon!
When the NSA aims for foreign targets whose communications cross U.S. infrastructure, it expects to sweep in some American content “incidentally” or “inadvertently,” which are terms of art in regulations governing the NSA. Contact chaining, because it extends to the contacts of contacts of targets, inevitably collects even more American data.
Current NSA director Keith B. Alexander and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. have resolutely refused to offer an estimate of the number of Americans whose calls or e-mails have thus made their way into content databases such as NUCLEON.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 16 June 2013 15:45 (ten years ago) link
The Post has learned that similar orders have been renewed every three months for other large U.S. phone companies, including Bell South and AT&T, since May 24, 2006. On that day, the surveillance court made a fundamental shift in its approach to Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which permits the FBI to compel production of “business records” that are relevant to a particular terrorism investigation and to share those in some circumstances with the NSA. Henceforth, the court ruled, it would define the relevant business records as the entirety of a telephone company’s call database.The Bush administration, by then, had been taking “bulk metadata” from the phone companies under voluntary agreements for more than four years. The volume of information overwhelmed the MAINWAY database, according to a classified report from the NSA inspector general in 2009. The agency spent $146 million in supplemental counterterrorism funds to buy new hardware and contract support — and to make unspecified payments to the phone companies for “collaborative partnerships.”When the New York Times revealed the warrantless surveillance of voice calls, in December 2005, the telephone companies got nervous. One of them, unnamed in the report, approached the NSA with a request. Rather than volunteer the data, at a price, the “provider preferred to be compelled to do so by a court order,” the report said. Other companies followed suit. The surveillance court order that recast the meaning of business records “essentially gave NSA the same authority to collect bulk telephony metadata from business records that it had” under Bush’s asserted authority alone.
The Bush administration, by then, had been taking “bulk metadata” from the phone companies under voluntary agreements for more than four years. The volume of information overwhelmed the MAINWAY database, according to a classified report from the NSA inspector general in 2009. The agency spent $146 million in supplemental counterterrorism funds to buy new hardware and contract support — and to make unspecified payments to the phone companies for “collaborative partnerships.”
When the New York Times revealed the warrantless surveillance of voice calls, in December 2005, the telephone companies got nervous. One of them, unnamed in the report, approached the NSA with a request. Rather than volunteer the data, at a price, the “provider preferred to be compelled to do so by a court order,” the report said. Other companies followed suit. The surveillance court order that recast the meaning of business records “essentially gave NSA the same authority to collect bulk telephony metadata from business records that it had” under Bush’s asserted authority alone.
you know it's bad when cold-blooded corps would rather be forced to do the thing rather than being paid off to do the thing
― Z S, Sunday, 16 June 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 June 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
the name of the game is managing liability
― Aimless, Sunday, 16 June 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/16/gchq-intercepted-communications-g20-summits
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 00:48 (ten years ago) link
wow. am i just naive or is that a massive story?
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Monday, 17 June 2013 02:43 (ten years ago) link
seems like a big deal to me
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 02:46 (ten years ago) link
I'm more amused that they still had documentation about it than the fact that they actually did it, tbh
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 17 June 2013 02:50 (ten years ago) link
Their powerpoint slides appear to be just as self-congratulatory as those of any other UK govt dept.
Some comments are saying this is commonplace behaviour by governments at this kind of high-level meeting. I have no clue whether that's true, and if so, how much of an idea the delegates themselves would have about it.
― ljubljana, Monday, 17 June 2013 04:14 (ten years ago) link
iirc Peter Wright's Spycatcher book outlined MI-5 domestic spying on foreign dignitaries, I have no doubt it's as true now as then
"yknow spies, buncha bitchy little girls"
― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 17 June 2013 04:34 (ten years ago) link
wikileaks revealed that hillary clinton had approved spying on u.n. leaders so it's not exactly surprising
― oxygenating our wombspace (abanana), Monday, 17 June 2013 11:32 (ten years ago) link
good post, and not just for the david simon stuff
https://blog.pinboard.in/2013/06/persuading_david_simon/
― caek, Monday, 17 June 2013 11:54 (ten years ago) link
i've gotta admit i'm dyyyin to know what else is in that docu archive
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 17 June 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/turkey-russia-g20-spying-gchq
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
it's hard to know if they're actually mad or just drumming up nationalist rah rah mad
― iatee, Monday, 17 June 2013 14:52 (ten years ago) link
or they feel compelled to do something so that they don't seem like weak pushovers
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
Turkey probably legit angry. Would be surprised if Russia didn't know about it months ago but you have to keep up appearances.
― О боже, какой мужчина (ShariVari), Monday, 17 June 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
two terrible countries to piss off if you plan to do something about syria
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 15:02 (ten years ago) link
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/is-james-risen-real-journalist-or.html
NY Times reporter James Risen versus the inside the beltway folks on NBC's Meet the Press
― curmudgeon, Monday, 17 June 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
Bob Medici Schiffer yesterday devoted a segment to showing how Snowden is NOT Rosa Parks and MLK Jr.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
Schieffer was an asshole even before he lost his marbles, lotta that around CBS News the last 30 years or so.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 17 June 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
any yall following this live q&a w/dude btw
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 17 June 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
is he even considered a real journalist?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 17 June 2013 15:58 (ten years ago) link
he co-wrote a good early Reagan bio depicting how the man was out to lunch. Reagan too.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
One of his frequent guests:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120109224754/muppet/images/4/4a/Bob_SchiefferAndKermit.jpg
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
Lots out there on the internet re his friendships with Cheney and with W Bush:
http://mediabloodhound.typepad.com/weblog/2008/05/story-of-the-da.html
During the ’90s, Schieffer also struck up a friendship with George W. Bush when his brother Tom—now the U.S. ambassador to Australia—became partners with the future president in the Texas Rangers. Bob and W. went to ball games together, played golf, attended spring training. “He’s a great guy—that doesn’t mean I agree with him,” says Schieffer, adding that the situation became “a little awkward” when Bush ran for the White House but that he’s never gotten favorable treatment.
What's worse, Bush not only rewarded Bob's brother Tom with the ambassadorship to Australia from 2001-2005, but later made him US ambassador to Japan,
― curmudgeon, Monday, 17 June 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
do you even report, bro
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Monday, 17 June 2013 18:26 (ten years ago) link
dave weigel of slate thinks snowden is a 'useful idiot' for red china:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/06/17/snowden_veers_into_useful_idiocy.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 17 June 2013 19:18 (ten years ago) link
man can someone retire that fucking phrase already
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 17 June 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
yeah, fuck this 'useful idiot' idiom. if you think he's a traitor, don't dance around it.
― Mordy , Monday, 17 June 2013 19:57 (ten years ago) link
https://medium.com/state-of-play/bb27db32ae38
Two weeks ago, when the Guardian first leaked a Verizon court order to hand over its call metadata, a national debate began about privacy and security. Since then those leaks have continued, and they still drive the conversation. But much of that initial reporting turned out to be wrong — so much, in fact, that I’m starting to wonder if it’s approaching journalistic malfeasance.
― goole, Monday, 17 June 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
so this turned out not to be true?http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57589495-38/nsa-spying-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 02:16 (ten years ago) link
They told Nadler he heard it wrong.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 04:21 (ten years ago) link
― caek, Monday, June 17, 2013 7:54 AM (Yesterday)
^^ booming post
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 10:33 (ten years ago) link
Can we retire the use of "traitor," too? I mean, are we at war with China? Pretty sure we're not.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 12:18 (ten years ago) link
i think you mean "red china"
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 12:48 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGv2wqJJmbc
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 13:05 (ten years ago) link
you don't have to be at war w/ a country for someone to commit treason on their behalf
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:02 (ten years ago) link
i don't think it's a particularly broad reading to say that snowden violated the espionage act
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:05 (ten years ago) link
P. sure there's a constitutional and legal definition of "treason" to which "violating the espionage act" doesn't even come close.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:11 (ten years ago) link
For everyone's edification though just in case.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:12 (ten years ago) link
Also: John Marshall and treason.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:16 (ten years ago) link
If only Charlie Rose had done research and then asked Obama good follow-up questions.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
Charlie Rose is basically Bob Schieffer, right?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:19 (ten years ago) link
Here is a Wikipedia list of all persons (all four of them!) convicted of spying on the US for China. None were charged with or convicted of treason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Americans_convicted_of_spying_for_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China
Treason is, like, an actual *thing*, not a word to be thrown about lightly. We haven't convicted anyone of treason in the US for more than half a century. We didn't even charge the Rosenbergs or Alger Hiss with treason, let alone convict them.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:20 (ten years ago) link
well it's easier to convict people for other things so they don't get charged w/ treason in the first place
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
treason isn't an actual 'thing' anymore than manslaughter is
It has a degree of specificity regarding what your actions are intended to accomplish that "espionage" does not.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:31 (ten years ago) link
actually, treason is both a law and a common term
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:35 (ten years ago) link
anyone is within their right to judge an act as treasonous even if it isn't strictly legally so by united states standards
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:36 (ten years ago) link
So is "rape" but I advise against its usage in casual conversation. xp
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:37 (ten years ago) link
that's a good example. plenty of rapists are not convicted as such by the united states legal system.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
and I advise you telling someone they weren't raped if the dude wasn't charged legally xp
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
against
u guys think there'll be Snowden Halloween costumes?
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
Was Jonathan Pollard a traitor?
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
I'm going as his gf xp
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
yes, duh xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:41 (ten years ago) link
xxp I also advise against describing people convicted of or charged with sex offenses that don't rise to the level of rape as "rapists." If a dude whips his dick out on the subway and waves it at you, he may be guilty of sexual battery or another charge, but he's not a rapist.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:42 (ten years ago) link
xp he was? So Israel is an enemy of ours now, is it?
lotsa hardcore patriots on ILX all of a sudden, whippin' out treason charges left and right
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:43 (ten years ago) link
obviously my position is that supplying classified state secrets to anyone is treasonous, not just countries we are at war with.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:44 (ten years ago) link
except when they are legit whistleblowing. i'd say the NSA disclosure wasn't treasonous. the G-20 leak was.
blowing the whistle...of treason
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
I think even questioning whether it was treason is sorta treasonous
To anyone? Even to, say, a US journalist?
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:46 (ten years ago) link
hardcore patriots? dude told russia + turkey that we were spying on them. there was no reason to disclose that information except to undermine the US espionage program. i don't think you have to be a hardcore patriot to find that treasonous.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:46 (ten years ago) link
If Russia's and Turkey's real, not-for-PR-purposes reaction to this news was anything but a sarcastic "No shit," I'll eat my hat.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
oh okay bc they weren't surprised then it's totes cool
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:50 (ten years ago) link
i guess i'm just not enough of an free information radical. but to answer your other question - if someone leaked the names of undercover agents to a US newspaper, I'd consider that treasonous. whether that rises to the level where the government would (or should) prosecute them under a treason statute is an entirely other thing.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
― Mordy , Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:36 AM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
can't hear you, you're backtracking too fast
i mean come on dude
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
it's not treason unless they were working on behalf of a foreign power
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:55 (ten years ago) link
not that it really matters, i guess. though treason proper is a capital crime and i don't think violating the espionage statue(s) is
it's a loose term. lots of countries define it differently. we happen to have a very strict definition of the term in the united states (plus an espionage act that covers a lot of what other countries might call treason). i don't think i need to not use the term bc of this legal coincidence.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:55 (ten years ago) link
ethel + julius were charged under violating espionage act no?
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:56 (ten years ago) link
uhh well w/o checking wiki i think they were found guilty of DUN DUN DUN treason
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:56 (ten years ago) link
for instance in canada: (2) Every one commits treason who, in Canada... (b) without lawful authority, communicates or makes available to an agent of a state other than Canada, military or scientific information or any sketch, plan, model, article, note or document of a military or scientific character that he knows or ought to know may be used by that state for a purpose prejudicial to the safety or defence of Canada;
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
i don't think so, checking wiki DUN DUN DUN "Charge(s) Conspiracy to commit espionage"
just like why 'Murrican ADULTS know that the guvmint can watch and hear everything we do and it's childish to object, duh
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
the Supreme Court has spoken on this iirc - merely providing aid and comfort to the enemy isn't treasonous unless you're actually working for them. but it's mordy-treasonous, fair enough. when you use a word that has a specific legal meaning any way you want, not everyone is gonna roll with that
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
you're speaking as though once a word has a particular legal definition in a particular country that's the end of the conversation about it. do i need to make up a new word that describes someone betraying their country's trust by leaking confidential information that undermines its security -- but that isn't treason as defined by the supreme court? fine. i guess mordy-treasonous will have to do.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
The question now to be decided has been argued in a manner worthy of its importance, and with an earnestness evincing the strong conviction felt by the counsel on each side that the law is with them. A degree of eloquence seldom displayed on any occasion has embellished a solidity of argument and a depth of research by which the court has been greatly aided in forming the opinion it is about to deliver. The testimony adduced on the part of the United States to prove the overt act laid in the indictment having shown, and the attorney for the United States having admitted, that the prisoner was not present when that act, whatever may be its character, was committed, and there being no reason to doubt but that he was at a great distance, and in a different state, it is objected to the testimony offered on the part of the United States to connect him with those who committed the overt act, that such testimony is totally irrelevant, and must, therefore, be rejected. The arguments in support of this motion respect in part the merits of the case as it may be supposed to stand independent of the pleadings, and in part as exhibited by the pleadings.
On the first division of the subject two points are made:
1st. That, conformably to the constitution of the United States, no man can be convicted of treason who was not present when the war was levied.
2d. That if this construction be erroneous, no testimony can be received to charge one man with the overt acts of others until those overt acts as laid in the indictment be proved to the satisfaction of the court.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:02 (ten years ago) link
"When I use a word,' Humpty Mordy said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.""The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things.""The question is," said Humpty Mordy, "which is to be master— that's all."
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:02 (ten years ago) link
I just don't get what the purpose is of running around calling people "traitor?" Like, let's discuss the pros/cons/effects of what an individual did and what it means in terms of international relations and security and our relationship to the Constitution and whatever. What does adding "treason" to the discussion constantly actually accomplish? Aside from getting to say "I'm a good American unlike that TRAITOR."
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:03 (ten years ago) link
sure! i'm just saying that when conservatives call it treason, they're sort of calling for the govt to charge the person with that
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 2:45 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
loll
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
the NSA FISA disclosures were technically legal but that doesn't mean that they weren't a violation against the american public. since when did the exact legality of actions determine the moral force of them? or is it only when it's convenient to arguing a point?
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
i should say, not the disclosures, but the actions about which were disclosed
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
i haven't made a moral judgment during this argument!
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
that's my point. if i defended wiretapping on the basis of its legality you'd say the legality is irrelevant. i'm saying that the exact definition by the constitution of the term 'treason' is irrelevant to determining is snowden betrayed his country.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
if*
you don't even have to grant snowden's libertarian premises too much to see that being on the run from the USG and betraying the nation in toto are different things
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
I think there are TREMENDOUS implied moral differences among, say, "unauthorized disclosure," "espionage" and "treason."
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:08 (ten years ago) link
i consider the G-20 leak a betrayal of his nation. obviously reasonable people can disagree.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:08 (ten years ago) link
yes, i agree. that's why i used the term 'treason.' bc of the moral force of the term. xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:09 (ten years ago) link
why are there tremendous implied moral differences among 'espionage' and 'treason'
what if the country that you are treasoning with is actually of a higher moral character
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:09 (ten years ago) link
i'm ready to admit that he or the G20 leaker broke laws (though maybe i'd want to see some laws changed), but that none of his offenses constituted treason
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link
the g-20 spying was done by the british, how does that follow?
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
oh right i forgot he was the g20 leaker too
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
what if you betray your family business to another business that is more ethical? humans have long recognized that betraying your family/community/nation has inherent ethical problems, not just problems of inherent moral judgement.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
xxp British + NSA both afaict
maybe i'm just less of a nationalist than confused-Marxist mordy
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
can we talk about how hilarious it is that one of the examples they are using to show that this program is working is that it averted an attack on the NYSE
― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
why am i a confused-marxist? i don't feel confused.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:12 (ten years ago) link
about hyphen use?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
yeah i should say complicated marxist, your understanding of marxism is def superior to mine tbf it just confuses me at times (tho i generally like it)
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
NYSE, the Sacred Seat of the American state
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:14 (ten years ago) link
alfred otm ban me
i'm not even sure it's relevant here. i don't know about any radical free information principle in traditional marxism.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:15 (ten years ago) link
what 'enemy' is comforted by talking about the g-20 spying?
funny enough acc to the guardian the spying was kind of old-timey: fake internet cafes!
The same document also refers to GCHQ, MI6 and others setting up internet cafes which "were able to extract key logging info, providing creds for delegates, meaning we have sustained intelligence options against them even after conference has finished". This appears to be a reference to acquiring delegates' online login details.
i'm sure the british are pissed but it's not treason to talk about this.
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:16 (ten years ago) link
sorry, I don't consider "telling countries that already know we are spying on them about a specific spying incident" to occupy the same moral plane as "taking up arms against the United States government."
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
i don't know why you're so hung up on 'enemy.' i consider pollard's actions treasonous and he was supplying information to an 'ally.' xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
i'm hung up on it because it's the language of the law
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:18 (ten years ago) link
i think mordechai vanunu was definitely a traitor to his country (and he was even convicted of treason iirc!), and he just leaked to the UK press. not to a specific enemy of israel.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:18 (ten years ago) link
ok, but i'm not making strict arguments about the US legal code. i don't think the US can or should prosecute snowden under the treason act. i still think his actions may be treasonous.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:19 (ten years ago) link
just in a vaguely traitory hates his mother nation and wants his countrymen to die kind of a way
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:21 (ten years ago) link
well i can't speak to his motivations. i'm sure he's very idealistic and thinks he is doing the right thing.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:22 (ten years ago) link
But he's really a filthy traitor.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:24 (ten years ago) link
Anyway, all hail the Rodinia!
i'm sure the rosenbergs had idealistic motivations as well
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
Sure. They wanted Meryl Streep to play Ethel.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
He was subsequently lured to Italy by a Mossad agent, where he was drugged and abducted by Israeli intelligence agents.[4] He was transported to Israel and ultimately convicted in a trial that was held behind closed doors.[4]
cool country
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
what if we compromised and decided this was a little bit treason and a little bit espionage
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
vanunu is lucky he wasn't executed xp
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
L-R: Treason, espionage
http://www.bionicdisco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/DonnyMarie_Show_Jan_1978.jpg
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:29 (ten years ago) link
he committed treason against the dystopian 2013 america by aiding the imaginary future america he wants to create
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:33 (ten years ago) link
anyone who tries to change america is kinda committing treason when you look at it like that
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:36 (ten years ago) link
― Mordy , Tuesday, June 18, 2013 10:25 AM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yes it was marxism
― goole, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:37 (ten years ago) link
Proverbs 16:2 "All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
"We had quite a bit of trouble deciphering the phone calls at first."
http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/dark-knight-rises-stock-exchange.jpg
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
they see me snowdenthey hatinpatrollin they tryna catch me speakin treason
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:00 (ten years ago) link
i assume the G-20 leak is one of the things that barton gillman refused to publish. i wonder what other information he has (he might literally have lists of names).
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
FedSmith.com Users Say Snowden is a TraitorIs Edward Snowden a hero or a traitor for leaking the information about the NSA? FedSmith.com users say he is a traitor in our recent survey.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
He is a hero in that he has exposed the inappropriateness of having contractors do the work that federal employees should do. He is a traitor because he handled it inappropriately.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
I guess if we are at war with Terror, and Terror is fear of the the unknown, and this guy made is so that there is less that is unknown to us, then yes in some way he is threatening our ability to be Terrorized. So he's the opposite of a traitor.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
the NSA FISA disclosures were technically legal but that doesn't mean that they weren't a violation against the american public.
informing the american public about secret policies they have a clear interest in knowing about is a 'violation against them'?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
always hilarious to see liberals eagerly standing up for the espionage act, passed by notable racist warmonger woodrow wilson largely as an excuse to silence domestic opposition and lock up antiwar radicals.
Have there been photos of these fake G20 internet cafes?
― lols lane (Eazy), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:41 (ten years ago) link
http://www.ronsaari.com/stockImages/diners/tomsRestaurant1.jpg
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:48 (ten years ago) link
the fake restaurants thing is like something baudrillard would have made up blows my mind
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:53 (ten years ago) link
little did they know that they were spying on fake diplomats
― iatee, Tuesday, 18 June 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
read my post immediately after the one you quoted. i clarified.
― Mordy , Tuesday, 18 June 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
oops! sorry, missed that.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 18 June 2013 20:47 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/06/why-monopolies-make-spying-easier.html
― iatee, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 02:52 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-congress-has-become-a-rubber-stamp-for-the-nsa/2013/06/18/eb9ef4ee-d861-11e2-a9f2-42ee3912ae0e_story.html?hpid=z2
The only non-love-fest questions at the hearing:
Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), (D-Ill.), who said the officials would have been better off providing information about the program “up front,” asked whether their newfound transparency would include the public release, with redactions, of secret court opinions related to the surveillance programs.
“It’s been a very difficult task,” was Litt’s noncommittal response.
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) asked how soon Litt would have an answer on declassifying the opinions.
“I’m hesitant to answer any question that begins ‘how soon,’ ” Litt said.
Schiff, in the minority of lawmakers challenging the witnesses, suggested that the NSA might want to get the phone “metadata” from the telecommunications providers on a case-by-case basis rather than amass all the data for all Americans.
“The concern is speed in crisis,” Alexander told him.
Schiff wasn’t persuaded. “I think that the American people may be much more comfortable with the telecommunications companies retaining those business records,” he said. As for the intelligence officials’ boasts about self-supervision, Schiff added, “all those internal checks are valuable, but they’re still internal checks.”
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 15:44 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-charges-snowden-with-espionage/2013/06/21/507497d8-dab1-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story.html
― Mordy , Friday, 21 June 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link
what can one say, but, welp
― goole, Saturday, 22 June 2013 02:26 (ten years ago) link
http://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpghttp://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpghttp://i.guim.co.uk/n/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/21/1371831337646/Edward-Snowden-composite--009.jpg
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Saturday, 22 June 2013 03:39 (ten years ago) link
yo dawg we heard you like espionage so we charged you with espionage after hiring you to perform espionage
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 22 June 2013 08:07 (ten years ago) link
if you knew this is Bam's SEVENTH Espionage Act prosecution, raise yr hand. (Wilson through Dubya: 3.)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/22/snowden-espionage-charges
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 12:48 (ten years ago) link
I don't think Snowden should be charged, but either you or Greenwald are trying to be misleading here, because he says something very specific:
Prior to Barack Obama's inauguration, there were a grand total of three prosecutions of leakers under the Espionage Act
Note he's confining that statement to "leakers," however he's defining that, but either he -- or, I think, you -- are trying to imply that only three PEOPLE have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act, since 1917, which is . . . not true.
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:33 (ten years ago) link
nope, just my mistranscription, my fault
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
no access to Wiki now, but wasn't Eugene Debs convicted under the EA?
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 June 2013 13:50 (ten years ago) link
yes -- the sedition act of 1918 was actually an amendment to the espionage act, so initially it was used almost entirely against antiwar activists (AFAIK no actual german spies were ever caught and convicted under the act.)
no one was successfully prosecuted for leaking to the press until this guy, in 1985: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Loring_Morison
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 22 June 2013 19:21 (ten years ago) link
Not sure if this is the thread for it, but uhm... uh oh...
In an email sent hours before his death in a single-car L.A. crash, journalist Michael Hastings wrote that his “close friends and associates” were being interviewed by the FBI and he was going to “go off the radar for a bit.”According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 22 June 2013 20:07 (ten years ago) link
remember this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNdW2V5V8W4
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 June 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
Danny Casolaro, yes defo. Not seem the dramatic re-enacted video though.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 22 June 2013 21:15 (ten years ago) link
god BCCI is one of the great forgotten scandals of the last twenty years.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 22 June 2013 21:31 (ten years ago) link
Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
max to thread
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 22:04 (ten years ago) link
Speculative article stoking more fears: Pentagon bracing for public dissent over climate and energy shocks
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 22 June 2013 23:28 (ten years ago) link
yeah. iatee doesnt like that article.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 June 2013 23:29 (ten years ago) link
Roseanne Barr @TheRealRoseanne here's what happened: the 2 (or 3) factions in r government set up the tech2 spy on each other-& each invented their own opposition, 4 gov$
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 June 2013 01:36 (ten years ago) link
snowden out
― look at my watch/I'm in the club and everyone's looking at me/fuck th (k3vin k.), Sunday, 23 June 2013 10:45 (ten years ago) link
wikileaks twitter is saying they're helping him
― oxygenating our wombspace (abanana), Sunday, 23 June 2013 11:56 (ten years ago) link
out of what
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 23 June 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
frying pan and into fire
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
N.S.A. Leaker Leaves Hong Kong on Flight to Moscow
I guess he's attracted to Putin's strong commitment to killing journalists.
― Mordy , Sunday, 23 June 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
It's not his last stop. I think his main interest is in not being arrested by the fascist dick.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 June 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
ok now i have a mental picture of a penis with a hitler mustache, thanks
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Sunday, 23 June 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
here we go:
Even before a former U.S. intelligence contractor exposed the secret collection of Americans’ phone records, the Obama administration was pressing a government-wide crackdown on security threats that requires federal employees to keep closer tabs on their co-workers and exhorts managers to punish those who fail to report their suspicions.
President Barack Obama’s unprecedented initiative, known as the Insider Threat Program, is sweeping in its reach. It has received scant public attention even though it extends beyond the U.S. national security bureaucracies to most federal departments and agencies nationwide, including the Peace Corps, the Social Security Administration and the Education and Agriculture departments. It emphasizes leaks of classified material, but catchall definitions of “insider threat” give agencies latitude to pursue and penalize a range of other conduct.
Government documents reviewed by McClatchy illustrate how some agencies are using that latitude to pursue unauthorized disclosures of any information, not just classified material. They also show how millions of federal employees and contractors must watch for “high-risk persons or behaviors” among co-workers and could face penalties, including criminal charges, for failing to report them. Leaks to the media are equated with espionage.
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/20/194513/obamas-crackdown-views-leaks-as.html#.Ucb6zZymU0M#storylink=cpy
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 June 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
“Hammer this fact home . . . leaking is tantamount to aiding the enemies of the United States,” says a June 1, 2012, Defense Department strategy for the program that was obtained by McClatchy.
The FISA Court that Obama and some of Congress is proud of:
All 11 of the current members were tapped by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Ten were originally appointed to the federal bench by Republican presidents. Six are former prosecutors.
“The judges that are assigned to this court are judges that are not likely to rock the boat,” said Nancy Gertner, a former federal judge from Massachusetts who teaches at Harvard Law School. Gertner, a former defense and civil rights lawyer named to the bench by Democrat Bill Clinton, added: “All of the structural pressures that keep a judge independent are missing there. It’s one-sided, secret, and the judges are chosen in a selection process by one man.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/for-secretive-surveillance-court-rare-scrutiny-in-wake-of-nsa-leaks/2013/06/22/df9eaae6-d9fa-11e2-a016-92547bf094cc_story_1.html
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:32 (ten years ago) link
Ugh, getting so sick of people on twitter saying "So Snowden wants to go to Russia/Cuba/Ecuador, yeah?! Not exactly free havens, free speech paradises, good human rights countries amirite?!"... It is totally beside the point.
Afaict only thing Snowden wants now is to stay out the blood thirsty hands of USA justice. The enemy of the enemy is his friend. In this particular case, free journalism has little to do with it. Snowden just wants to reside somewhere where he can stay out of USA's hands. And with reason.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNcBma5CAAEt0Jf.gif:large
Dutch cartoon figures Fokke & Sukke (yeah the names are a pun):
Fokke & Sukke have a tip for Snowden
Fokke: If you never want to appear in front of an American judge, there is only one place you can go...Sukke: Guantánamo Bay
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
Damnit, cartoon's gone
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
The joke works without an image thought tbh
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:47 (ten years ago) link
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu216/le_bateau_ivre/BNcBma5CAAEt0Jf.png
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:48 (ten years ago) link
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:49 (ten years ago) link
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23/david-gregory-glenn-greenwald-crime_n_3486654.html
― Iago Galdston, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
Nilmar
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
tho i agree with lbi and the notion that he is being 'hypocritical' is retarded.....it seems doubtful that he can remain safely in russia
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
whether he gets leaned on to make pro-putin statements or present a death to amerikka show on russia tv or whatever
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
Otm.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
is there any precedent for someone disclosing government secrets in a western nation being given asylum elsewhere?
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:02 (ten years ago) link
Ugh, getting so sick of people on twitter saying "So Snowden wants to go to Russia/Cuba/Ecuador, yeah?! Not exactly free havens, free speech paradises, good human rights countries amirite?!"
OTM. Dude leaked this stuff to the press, he didn't mail a Flash drive of it to the Tabliban, he gave it to the supposedly free press that is supposedly protected by our so-effing-awesome freedoms that sets us apart from those horrible savages in the rest of the world. Why is Russa and China so much worse than the US? Cos they relentlessly spy on their own people? Cos they threaten whistle-blowers in the almighty name of State Security?
The fact that this guy has been working in national surveillance and probably knows the secret workings of most gov'ts of the world and chooses NOT to remain in "Freedom Lovin' 'Merica" just really underlines how far we've gone, how much like the dreaded horrors of the Soviet State or the Red Menace we have become. If any moment deserves a "Wake up, sheeple", this is it.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
Philip Agee comes to mind.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:09 (ten years ago) link
xp Exactly Adam! That's the thing. I see a lot of Obama supporters still clinging to the idea of 'Obama is the leader of the FREE world, of the greatest FREE nation", when in fact he's no better than his predecessors. As an outside I can truly say, if America had a republican president now the world would go all "oh yeah, BIG surprise". But not it is actually a BIG surprise, and people squirm their way into apologetics. This is way more of a 'wake up sheeple' moment than there ever has been.
There was an interesting interview with former NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake on Dutch telly yesterday. Asked if Obama is better or worse than Bush/Cheney, he said "worse, definitely. At least Bush/Cheney didn't hide the fact they wanted to spy on people more. It's like Obama wants it both ways: a) pretend he's a liberal president that holds privacy in high regard, and b) be seen as a tough president fighting trrrrism.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
*But noW it is actually a BIG surprise etc
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
yeah i think it's possible to absolve snowden for finding sanctuary where he can whilst being cognizant that russia and china are rather worse than the united states
― GET INVULVED (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:22 (ten years ago) link
Oh I agree. It's just such a lame tu quoque to pull: "but but but look at China and Russia! They ain't sweethearts either!" While true, it is completely beside the point.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
so people get that Moscow is likely a layover, right?
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
chuck schumer is angry
"The fact that [Russian officials] allowed him to land, indicates that we are not in a place of cooperation," Schumer said on CNN's State of The Union. He added that this could have "serious consequences" for Russian-U.S. relations.Schumer also said he is "very disappointed" in Hong Kong's decision to let him leave, adding that he believes the "hand of Beijing" was involved here.
Schumer also said he is "very disappointed" in Hong Kong's decision to let him leave, adding that he believes the "hand of Beijing" was involved here.
― Z S, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:39 (ten years ago) link
Russia & China not being evil enough for the US
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:45 (ten years ago) link
"He added that this could have "serious consequences" for Russian-U.S. rleations"
Russia/Poetin: http://files.myopera.com/drlaunch/albums/37656/o-rly001.jpg
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:46 (ten years ago) link
Schumer is still under the illusion that the US has as much power in the world as it had in the Sixties. He's living in the past, mahnnn.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:47 (ten years ago) link
i don't know where he got the crazy idea that beijing might have been involved in hong kong's decision to let snowden leave, though. he must have some sort of top secret nsa intelligence that the rest of us have no idea about
― Z S, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:51 (ten years ago) link
True, but it's people like Schumer who just do not understand what this is about. This is not about "oooohhh China's no picknick either!", this effectively is about how the US deals with dissidents; exactly the same way like China or Russia do. Capture them, try them, lock 'em up. The US isn't any holier than "the hand of Beijing" when it concerns this. As is proven by himself. Manning, Agee, Drake, Assange to thread.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Sunday, 23 June 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
I believe the hand of Schumer is involved in lotsa Wall St jagoffs
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
Can we send David Gregory and Schumer to Russia
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
and send Dianne Feinstein too, please
― Iago Galdston, Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:33 (ten years ago) link
I'd actually keep the current Supreme Court and trade the other two branches
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
Reading anti-Snowden comment threads is a hugely demoralizing experience. People just bending over backwards in the name of authoritarianism. And if Cheney's outing of CIA informant or Clapper's recent perjury is brought up, they get a free pass cos apparently the law only counts if it's in favor of State power.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:51 (ten years ago) link
And the argument that PRISM disclosures simultaneously
1) something everyone already knew about anyways and does nothing to damage our global position
and
2) puts the US at a huge disadvantage and is equivalent to TREASON
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 23 June 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
scooter libby got a free pass?
― balls, Sunday, 23 June 2013 21:00 (ten years ago) link
Wikipedia:
"On June 5, 2007, the presiding trial judge, Reggie B. Walton, sentenced Libby to 30 months in federal prison, a fine of $250,000, and two years of supervised release, including 400 hours of community service,[14][15][16][17] and then ordered Libby to begin his sentence immediately.[18] On July 2, 2007, when Libby's appeal of Walton's order failed, President Bush commuted Libby's 30-month prison sentence, leaving the other parts of his sentence intact."
The money for the fine could probably have been raised from wealthy Bush/Cheney backers, so the 400 hours of community service were his only tangible forfeit. Not quite a free pass, but much worse than what Snowden would get.
― Aimless, Sunday, 23 June 2013 21:09 (ten years ago) link
much worse better than
― Aimless, Sunday, 23 June 2013 21:10 (ten years ago) link
"we've changed our passwords"
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/23/sunday_shows_what_you_missed/
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 June 2013 21:16 (ten years ago) link
Booz Allen Hamilton still needs to get a return-on-investment: After Profits, Defense Contractor Faces the Pitfalls of Cybersecurity
WASHINGTON — When the United Arab Emirates wanted to create its own version of the National Security Agency, it turned to Booz Allen Hamilton to replicate the world’s largest and most powerful spy agency in the sands of Abu Dhabi.It was a natural choice: The chief architect of Booz Allen’s cyberstrategy is Mike McConnell, who once led the N.S.A. and pushed the United States into a new era of big data espionage. It was Mr. McConnell who won the blessing of the American intelligence agencies to bolster the Persian Gulf sheikdom, which helps track the Iranians.“They are teaching everything,” one Arab official familiar with the effort said. “Data mining, Web surveillance, all sorts of digital intelligence collection.”Yet as Booz Allen profits handsomely from its worldwide expansion, Mr. McConnell and other executives of the government contractor — which sells itself as the gold standard in protecting classified computer systems and boasts that half its 25,000 employees have Top Secret clearances — have a lot of questions to answer.
It was a natural choice: The chief architect of Booz Allen’s cyberstrategy is Mike McConnell, who once led the N.S.A. and pushed the United States into a new era of big data espionage. It was Mr. McConnell who won the blessing of the American intelligence agencies to bolster the Persian Gulf sheikdom, which helps track the Iranians.
“They are teaching everything,” one Arab official familiar with the effort said. “Data mining, Web surveillance, all sorts of digital intelligence collection.”
Yet as Booz Allen profits handsomely from its worldwide expansion, Mr. McConnell and other executives of the government contractor — which sells itself as the gold standard in protecting classified computer systems and boasts that half its 25,000 employees have Top Secret clearances — have a lot of questions to answer.
The blowback from this is going to suck.
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 24 June 2013 00:55 (ten years ago) link
@russian_market 20mBOARDING IS OVER. SNOWDEN DIDN'T SHOW UP. POOR CNN & BCC JOURNALISTS WHO ARE FLYING TO CUBA NOW....HASTA LA VISTA!
BOARDING IS OVER. SNOWDEN DIDN'T SHOW UP. POOR CNN & BCC JOURNALISTS WHO ARE FLYING TO CUBA NOW....HASTA LA VISTA!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 24 June 2013 10:37 (ten years ago) link
Twitter is hilarious now. Reporters ON THE PLANE tweeting Snowden ISN'T on the plane. Plane already on its way to Havana...
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 24 June 2013 10:42 (ten years ago) link
awesome
https://twitter.com/maxseddon/statuses/349106511257161729
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2013 10:47 (ten years ago) link
and Aeroflot isn't even serving drinks!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/24/edward-snowden-booked-on-plane-from-moscow-to-havana-live-coverage
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2013 10:50 (ten years ago) link
Maybe Rihanna took his place?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 24 June 2013 10:50 (ten years ago) link
xp Lol
I enjoy seeing the entire state-media complex being turned into Dean Wormer by one guy.
― ballin' from Maine to Mexico (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2013 11:00 (ten years ago) link
Snowdenplane is really fucking funny
― DJP, Monday, 24 June 2013 13:39 (ten years ago) link
Now it's REALLY becoming a "Catch-22" reference.
"Tweet him! Tweet him! Tweet the bombardier!"
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Monday, 24 June 2013 13:44 (ten years ago) link
http://www.diena.lv/uploads/thumbnails/705x457/article/1402/14013333/5225298_ORIGINAL_1371888009.jpg.jpg
like something out of blade runner
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 24 June 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
@Conor FriedersdorfHow could Snowden go to Cuba, a country where untried prisoners on hunger strikes are force fed with -- oh, wait, it's us doing that.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 24 June 2013 14:47 (ten years ago) link
The intermediary told Mr. Snowden Friday night that the government could not predict what Hong Kong’s independent judiciary would do, but that serving jail time while awaiting trial was a possibility. The intermediary also said that the Hong Kong government would welcome Mr. Snowden’s departure, Mr. Ho and the person who insisted on anonymity said. Both declined to identify the intermediary.
The Hong Kong government said that it would not interfere with Mr. Snowden’s departure and even provided unobtrusive police protection for him as he went through the airport, both of them said.
But, Mr. Ho said, Mr. Snowden went through the same security and immigration channels as most passengers at the airport, rather than a special channel usually used for people involved in highly political cases — a sign that the Hong Kong government wanted to minimize its involvement in Mr. Snowden’s departure.
At the same time, the Hong Kong government’s encouragement for Mr. Snowden to leave, instead of a suggestion that he stay and fight any return to the United States, had persuaded him that staying was risky because the Hong Kong government might not be on his side. “He would not like to fight with the Hong Kong government, with the Chinese government and the U.S. government” against him, Mr. Ho said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/world/asia/snowden-departure-from-hong-kong.html?_r=0
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
So of course Snowden wasn’t on that plane. He couldn’t have been. If he’d disappeared into Cuba the Snowden story would be over and all that would be left is the NSA story. And that’s not the plan.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/24/wonkbook-does-edward-snowden-even-exist/?hpid=z3
Ezra Klein and Evan Soltas
― curmudgeon, Monday, 24 June 2013 16:37 (ten years ago) link
Doesn't really make me feel great about either Snowden or Booz Allen's hiring practices:
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/snowden-says-he-took-job-with-contractor-to?ref=fpblg
― Moodles, Monday, 24 June 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
i mean afaic if dude was capable of using his skills and experience to get into a position to expose these programs, and if he set out to do so deliberately from the start, that's another notch for his temperate subversion in my book.
that said, i think this collective desire to lionize leakers as Great Heroes of The People is completely misguided. i'm glad he did what he did, and i'm glad he had the foresight to figure out how to do it more effectively than manning's indiscriminate document dump.
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 24 June 2013 16:58 (ten years ago) link
Leakers are necessary in a security state. I'm glad someone is willing to push some of these secrets out into the light.
― Aimless, Monday, 24 June 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
ends/means etc
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:01 (ten years ago) link
MLK said there are just laws and unjust laws. i think the info snowden made avaiable had little reason to be classified and that the public is better off than it was 2 weeks ago
― k3vin k., Monday, 24 June 2013 17:02 (ten years ago) link
Sure, which is why I value the info more than Snowden
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
the sheer number of documents that get classified every year is kind of stunning.
for me the issue isn't every leaker being a hero so much as the obama admin's reaction to leakers being horrifyingly over-the-top and frankly kind of tyrannical.
i do pretty much regard snowden as a hero, though.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:08 (ten years ago) link
snowden's a cool dude but i'm probably a bit more defensive of him than i would be ideally, given the mud-slinging attempts against him etc. i mean ideally the guy wouldn't be chraged w/ espionage
― k3vin k., Monday, 24 June 2013 17:09 (ten years ago) link
yeah agreeing w/ JD as per yoosh
― k3vin k., Monday, 24 June 2013 17:10 (ten years ago) link
You guys are in my cabinet iirc
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:35 (ten years ago) link
can i be seward?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:36 (ten years ago) link
I call dibs on Salmon P. Chase.
― Aimless, Monday, 24 June 2013 17:38 (ten years ago) link
I want to be Secrtareies of Fart
― copter (waterface), Monday, 24 June 2013 17:49 (ten years ago) link
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/784386973.jpg
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 24 June 2013 21:49 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2013/06/demonizing-edward-snowden-which-side-are-you-on.html#entry-more
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 25 June 2013 11:25 (ten years ago) link
way more in favor of demonizing Assange tbh
― El tres de 乒乓 de 1808 (silby), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 04:22 (ten years ago) link
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/pages/poll-edward-snowden
― balls, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 05:25 (ten years ago) link
speaking of balls
“Those people should be shot in the balls,” Snowden said of leakers in a January 2009 chat. Snowden had logged into an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) server associated with Ars Technica, a popular tech news site. While Ars itself didn’t log the conversations, multiple participants in the discussions kept logs of the chats and provided them to the technology site.At this point, Snowden’s evolution into a fierce critic of the national security establishment was in its early stages. Snowden was incensed at the New York Times, which had described secret negotiations between the United States and Israel over how best to deal with Iran’s suspected nuclear program.“Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ. They’re like wikileaks.” Snowden wrote. “You don’t put that s— in the NEWSPAPER.”“They have a HISTORY of this s—,” he continued, making liberal use of capital letters and profanity. “These are the same people who blew the whole ‘we could listen to osama’s cell phone’ thing. The same people who screwed us on wiretapping. Over and over and over again.”He said he enjoyed “ethical reporting.” But “VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no. That s— is classified for a reason. It’s not because ‘oh we hope our citizens don’t find out.’ It’s because ‘this s— won’t work if iran knows what we’re doing.’”“I am so angry right now. This is completely unbelievable.”
At this point, Snowden’s evolution into a fierce critic of the national security establishment was in its early stages. Snowden was incensed at the New York Times, which had described secret negotiations between the United States and Israel over how best to deal with Iran’s suspected nuclear program.“Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ. They’re like wikileaks.” Snowden wrote. “You don’t put that s— in the NEWSPAPER.”
“They have a HISTORY of this s—,” he continued, making liberal use of capital letters and profanity. “These are the same people who blew the whole ‘we could listen to osama’s cell phone’ thing. The same people who screwed us on wiretapping. Over and over and over again.”He said he enjoyed “ethical reporting.” But “VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no. That s— is classified for a reason. It’s not because ‘oh we hope our citizens don’t find out.’ It’s because ‘this s— won’t work if iran knows what we’re doing.’”
“I am so angry right now. This is completely unbelievable.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/26/four-years-ago-ed-snowden-thought-leakers-should-be-shot/
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
snowden... otm?
― Mordy , Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
disappointed the post didn't include "-in-the-balls" at the end of the URL there
― Z S, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
he evolved
you might someday xp
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
@chrislhayes Quite an ideological journey for Ed Snowden … This seems to make the act of conscience motivation *more* credible
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
agree tbh
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
I see a significant difference between the leaks Snowden was describing in 2009 and this one
― i don't even have an internet (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
well and as has been discussed doc dump vs. targeted release are v diff imo
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
it's been mentioned over and over, but i'm not sure what the "terrorists" learned from the nsa leak. that they're trying to monitor their phone calls and internet usage? that doesn't strike me as a huge blow to national security.
― Z S, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
whereas leaking "secret negotiations between the United States and Israel over how best to deal with Iran’s suspected nuclear program" seems a bit more consequential.
in other words hurting otm
― Z S, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
Im confused as to why nobody has talked to him in the last couple days.. if hes just chillin in an airport how come nobody has seen him?
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
other day one of the reporters who was stuck on the flight to cuba landed back in moscow and chatted with a customs guy who said he sees him all the time
probably bs, but lol
― steening in your HOOSless carriage (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
used to think they should be shot in the balls, now he thinks they will be shot in the balls
― goole, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
BREAKING: Snowden found crying in Sheremetyevo Airport, shot in balls
― Z S, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 19:30 (ten years ago) link
are we really surprised that a guy who worked at the cia and then the nsa once felt that way?
what snowden leaked poses zero threat to national security; it poses a threat to the obama admin's ability to keep a lid on policies they know the public would be creeped out by.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
In 2009 Snowden prob thought the gold standard was for pussies, too. But Snowden isn't the story, or he shouldn't be. Who cares what some 29 year old chatted about when he was 24? Either we care about NSA's harvesting data on billions of daily phone calls or we don't care. Snowden's faded opinions are irrelevant.
As Sen. Wyden keeps saying, no one has made a case that we couldn't achieve the same ends through less intrusive means. And yes, slippery slopes do apply here.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 20:09 (ten years ago) link
right
― Šite New Answers (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
the plurality of american/english journalists with any national security remit are complaisant dicksucks who will personalize/psychologize this ephemera like it has any consequence to the material disclosed
― Šite New Answers (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Wednesday, 26 June 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
The ACLU lawsuit, which establishes standing to sue bcz ACLU is a Verizon customer, seems like the most promising avenue being followed atm. The 'national conversation on security and privacy issues' Obama said he wanted really sucks ass so far. But "national conversations on X issue" usually suck ass.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 26 June 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
http://nsa.motherboard.tv/
― Just Elevate... And Decide In The Air -- Above the Rim (dan m), Thursday, 27 June 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
ACLU will lose but am so glad they are fighting. I should give them more money.
― the Spanish Porky's (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 27 June 2013 19:35 (ten years ago) link
yeah i give them 10 bucks a month but i r poor
― k3vin k., Friday, 28 June 2013 06:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-chief-says-surveillance-programs-helped-thwart-dozens-of-plots/2013/06/27/e97ab0a2-df70-11e2-963a-72d740e88c12_story.html?hpid=z1
NSA head vs 2 Senate Dems
Two Democratic senators, Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado, have questioned whether the collection of tens of millions of domestic calling records has helped thwart plots.
“It appears that the bulk phone records collection program under section 215 of the USA Patriot Act played little or no role in most of these disruptions,” the senators said in a statement. They did note that targeting foreign communications under Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was useful but that conflating these programs as one effort was misleading.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 28 June 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
President Obama on Thursday defended the handling of the international chase for the former government contractor, calling it a legal matter and saying he was “not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker.” Asked whether he had personally called Chinese President Xi Jinping or Russian President Vladimir Putin about Snowden, Obama said he had not.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-snowden-playbook-obama-administration-prioritized-legal-channels-over-diplomacy/2013/06/27/17523a0a-de7b-11e2-b797-cbd4cb13f9c6_story.html?hpid=z1
― curmudgeon, Friday, 28 June 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
how old would a hacker have to be to make scrambling jets worthwhile?
― nagl dude dude dude (ledge), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
17, like Broderick in WarGames
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Friday, 28 June 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7b6lfHFPz1qzx3igo1_500.jpg
Would scramble jets for.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
there it is
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
Nina Khruscheva rants, goes in on Cheney
commenters are largely unimpressed
― DJP, Friday, 28 June 2013 16:09 (ten years ago) link
In 1982, for example, when I was in high school in Moscow, I was on the phone with one of my closest friends, talking about how relieved we were that Leonid Brezhnev had finally died, after 18 years of stifling power. Suddenly, there was a metallic click on the line and we heard a dour man’s voice. A KGB functionary, no doubt. “Hang up the phone,” he demanded, “immediately.” We did.I dare anyone to tell me that this has happened to you in the United States.
I dare anyone to tell me that this has happened to you in the United States.
yeah we have a fuckin budget here
― the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Friday, 28 June 2013 16:43 (ten years ago) link
hah
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 28 June 2013 18:04 (ten years ago) link
is julian assange gonna turn ecuador into reddit island
― daft on the causes of punk (schlump), Friday, 28 June 2013 18:58 (ten years ago) link
a dreamland where the bitcoins flow like water and nobody has to worry about broads calling it rape when they wanted it
― iatee, Friday, 28 June 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
Can you take me higher ruh. To a place with bitcoin streams ruh.
― Sufjan Grafton, Saturday, 29 June 2013 08:07 (ten years ago) link
Memories of Stasi color Germans’ view of U.S. surveillance programs
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/26/195045/memories-of-stasi-color-germans.html
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 30 June 2013 08:31 (ten years ago) link
free Edward Snowden tutorials
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Sunday, 30 June 2013 17:58 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?src=recg
― k3vin k., Monday, 1 July 2013 10:53 (ten years ago) link
Be hilarious if dude ended up like the guy trapped in the Paris airport. It'd be like the end of "The Shield." Yeah, he got away with it ... but at what cost!?!?
Remind me what Snowden flew to China first, rather than someplace he actually needed to be? Why didn't he fly straight to Ecuador, or Mexico to Cuba or whatever?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 1 July 2013 12:14 (ten years ago) link
reading the times account of his time in HK it sounds like he was kind of misled or overly optimistic about his chances of avoiding extradition
― max, Monday, 1 July 2013 12:25 (ten years ago) link
RT @Reuters: Putin says if Snowden wants to stay in Russia, he must "stop his work aimed at harming our American partners"
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 1 July 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
oh putin-paws
― Mordy , Monday, 1 July 2013 15:03 (ten years ago) link
giving him up seems like a good move for putin. earns some political capital in the us/russia relationship at basically no real cost?
― iatee, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
like it's pretty hard to imagine that mr. kgb has an ounce of sympathy for for snowden
― iatee, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:11 (ten years ago) link
But he doesn't seem to care too much about political capital with the US either
― curmudgeon, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
putin is just having fun out there, playing like a young kid
― goole, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:23 (ten years ago) link
goole otm
― max, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:25 (ten years ago) link
he should send snowden back wearing the super bowl ring
― iatee, Monday, 1 July 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
he should make Snowden arm wrestle for it first
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Monday, 1 July 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Monday, July 1, 2013 3:35 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
god i hope this happens
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 1 July 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
In just four days, J. Shot—in association with Fallout Media and Immortal Peach (which is a great name for anything)—put together a five-minute film depicting Edward Snowden's first days in Hong Kong, culminating in his unveiling in his interview with The Guardian. The film, called Verax, is in its entirety below
http://www.nationaljournal.com/nationalsecurity/the-edward-snowden-movie-already-exists-20130701
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 1 July 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
needs more guys staring up into a camera howling "snoooowwwdDDEEEEEEEEEEN!!!!!"also batman
― i didn't even give much of a fuck that you were mod (forksclovetofu), Monday, 1 July 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/edward-snowden-applies-for-asylum-in-russia-news-reports-say/2013/07/01/cc3daf20-e26e-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html
― Mordy , Monday, 1 July 2013 19:39 (ten years ago) link
idealist hacker steals secrets about the panopticon, flees to hong kong, runs into arms of "anti-secrets" organization known to ally itself with leakers, issues statement through organization
can we please stop living in a fucking william gibson novel
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 00:51 (ten years ago) link
Can't. It's been 30 years since Neuromancer so most of the people that live and work in the Marketing/Intelligence/Surveillance state are already living a post-reality Gibson world anyway. It will only get even more surreal.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 02:17 (ten years ago) link
dammit.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 02:23 (ten years ago) link
post-cyberpunk can be kinda uplifting i think so let's hope that's the direction
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 02:27 (ten years ago) link
the snowden archives
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:00 (ten years ago) link
Neuromancer?
Putin says he can get asylum in Russia if he stops leaking information.SNOWden must be QUIET: WINTER MUTE.
― StanM, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:24 (ten years ago) link
Watching the Greenwald speech from the Socialism 2013 conference--surprisingly full of jokes. Also:
I really do love this conference. There's no conference quite like it in terms of the vibrancy and energy, I genuinely leave inspired each time I've attended. These last 4 weeks have been the most exhausting and intense four weeks of my life, but I knew that agreeing to speak here would compel me to reflect on this time, and I wanted that. But the real reason I wanted to speak at this conference is that unlike a lot of conferences I attend & speak at, this conference is focused not only on identifying political grievances, but also on creating activism that will address those political grievances, which is crucial. The reason I say that is because at every political speech I give, one of the first questions is always "well what can we do about these things?" And I think that question is very much the predominant theme of this conference. The idea that there's really no point in talking about political problems and systemic injustices if you're not also simultaneously grappling with the question of what I as an individual can do about it.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 03:27 (ten years ago) link
whassup
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 04:02 (ten years ago) link
this been done by a somebody
http://conference.first.org/program/index.aspx
ask a random anonymous private individual some questions
seriously hit it up babies
worst outcome is a little less cowbell than you dreamt
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 04:07 (ten years ago) link
of
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 04:08 (ten years ago) link
Ecuador has washed its hands of him and said he's Russia's problem now. Sheremetyevo's transit lounge isn't somewhere i'd particularly want to be stuck for weeks on end.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 09:06 (ten years ago) link
Can you get me a pass to that? I'm a well-travelled out-of-work drone rock database programmer who's looking to join the inside track.
Welcome back Tomboto
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:19 (ten years ago) link
dang it, the conference already happened. Still looking for work though...
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:26 (ten years ago) link
The requests were made to a number of countries including the Republic of Austria, the Plurinational State of Bolivia, the Federative Republic of Brazil, the People’s Republic of China, the Republic of Cuba, the Republic of Finland, the French Republic, the Federal Republic of Germany, the Republic of India, the Italian Republic, the Republic of Ireland, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, the Republic of Nicaragua, the Kingdom of Norway, the Republic of Poland, the Russian Federation, the Kingdom of Spain, the Swiss Confederation and the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela.
so... which of these states is going to take him? i think it's interesting that he put the prc and cuba on his list.
― dylannn, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 10:58 (ten years ago) link
Boliva, probably.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 11:01 (ten years ago) link
Bolivia, even.
Cuba is nice for old school spy scenery.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 11:08 (ten years ago) link
Still confused: couldn't this clown have just driven to Mexico then flown to Cuba? Shouldn't he have maybe lined up asylum first, done a little googlin', before he started leaking stuff?
Also, how does a computer programmer/analyst geek for the gov get an exotic dancer girlfriend in Hawaii?
These are all important questions.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:10 (ten years ago) link
I would assume that Cuba isn't his favoured destination. "Defecting" to a communist country, rather than, idk Finland, is nagl if you want people in the US to take you seriously. Obv couldn't have lined up asylum first as the NSA is reading the Finnish embassy's e-mails.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:12 (ten years ago) link
Regardless, why did he start in Hong Kong? And why did he not work this shit out first? He's not ending up in Finland. One way or another, he's going to end up in a warm place with a horrible human rights record.
Also, sorry, but leaking state secrets before seeking asylum in some other country is "nagl" no matter where he ends up. It's not like his detractors will be all, oh, he's in Finland, that's cool. The people who want him hung for treason likely don't distinguish between Europe and Soviet Russia.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:39 (ten years ago) link
I can think of some other reasons why a Ron Paul fan wouldn't want to spend the rest of his life in Cuba
― iatee, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:43 (ten years ago) link
thanks for apologizing
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:44 (ten years ago) link
I doubt the people who want him hung for treason will care either way but anyone who is conflicted about the morality of the US spying on its citizens and allies might. It's a lot easier to question his motives if he jumps on the first plane to Havana.
And yes, he seems more of a libertarian than a socialist so Cuba wouldn't exactly be ideal either way.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 12:51 (ten years ago) link
he should move to Somalia then badoom-tish
― 10zing blogay (seandalai), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:22 (ten years ago) link
No internet access iirc.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:24 (ten years ago) link
To do list:
1) Find country that would give me asylum2) Go close to - or even to - that country3) Leak state secrets4) Invoke asylum.
I seem to recall Snowden explaining why originally Hong Kong, but I can't remember why. Clearly it didn't work out for him, or at least hasn't yet.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:29 (ten years ago) link
hong kong is the libertarian dreamland
― iatee, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
^^^
― balls, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
they got seat belts?
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:33 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k68VJnpqJb8
― iatee, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:34 (ten years ago) link
HK also has some of the fatest internet infrastructure in the world, and is the "home" of shady web companies like megaupload
snowden was a big poster on ars technica forums:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/04/1gbps-symmetric-fiber-us26-in-hong-kong/http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/01/fiber-fail-hong-kong-booms-as-verizon-retrenches/
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=177549
― max, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:45 (ten years ago) link
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/peter-king-suspicious-of-snowdens-china-connections-he
― dylannn, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 13:54 (ten years ago) link
lol check the anti-democracy comments up top on that HK youtube
― goole, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:01 (ten years ago) link
He's the man without a country. Maybe he can get a job in that Russian airport?
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
If someone like Snowden were in China, say, would he have free and unfettered access to the fast internet? Or would his internet access be censored/monitored/limited?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
from what ive read the reason he left HK is because he learned he could be jailed during his asylum/extradition process and would lose access to the internet
― max, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
https://02varvara.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/sergei-yolkin-internet-addiction-2011.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
idk if everybody already read the interviews greenwald gave abt the initial encounters with snowden but in the socialism talk he says "from the moment he made contact with me he was clear in his understanding that he was relinquishing control of his life, that from here forward he would be pursued, imprisoned, or worse by the most powerful government in the world. i expected to meet a high ranking official at tne end of his career and prepared to live out his final years in defiance. i did not expect to meet such a courageous young man with his whole life still ahead of him, called by conscience to reveal the truth."
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
prob some hagiography happening there but this is a guy who seems to have gone into this clear eyed, if not entirely accurate in his predictions of outcomes.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
"prob"
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
His poor father...
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
He's been so clear eyed and realistic that's it's a wonder he didn't work things out better before he sealed his fate.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:10 (ten years ago) link
What You Can Learn from Six Months of Phone Metadata
― This amigurumi Jamaican octopus is ready to chill with you (Phil D.), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
Wow
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 15:55 (ten years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:10 PM (2 hours ago)
He should have contacted you and then he would be sitting pretty with your pal Josh in Caracas
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
really though, next time around call ahead first ed, no one likes the drop-in
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:10 (ten years ago) link
dad wrote open letter, can't find full post
The father of NSA leaker Edward Snowden, frustrated by his inability to reach out directly to his son, has written an open letter to him extolling him for "summoning the American people to confront the growing danger of tyranny."The letter was written jointly Tuesday by Lonnie Snowden and his lawyer, Bruce Fein.It comes a day after Edward Snowden issued a statement through WikiLeaks ripping the Obama administration for leaving him "stateless" and revoking his passport.Snowden is in Russia and has been seeking asylum in multiple countries.Snowden's father has expressed concern that WikiLeaks supporters who have been helping his son seek asylum may not have his best interests at heart. The father has said he'd like his son to return to the U.S. under the right circumstances.
The letter was written jointly Tuesday by Lonnie Snowden and his lawyer, Bruce Fein.
It comes a day after Edward Snowden issued a statement through WikiLeaks ripping the Obama administration for leaving him "stateless" and revoking his passport.
Snowden is in Russia and has been seeking asylum in multiple countries.
Snowden's father has expressed concern that WikiLeaks supporters who have been helping his son seek asylum may not have his best interests at heart. The father has said he'd like his son to return to the U.S. under the right circumstances.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:11 (ten years ago) link
prob some hagiography happening there
I don't think yer allowed to call anything hagiography unless it rises to the level of giving the Nobel Peace Prize to a guy about to embark on an 8-year killing spree, but meh, semantics.
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
I swear, someone could be talking about croissants and you'd pop up drily wondering how many people Bam the War Criminal had executed by drone strike to get those croissants extra buttery
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:24 (ten years ago) link
i go with my strengths, dude
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:25 (ten years ago) link
"strengths"
― copter (waterface), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
http://images.politico.com/global/2012/12/04/121204_barack_obama_ap_605.jpg
"HURRY UP WITH MY DAMN CROISSANTS!"
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
you see, when Kanye says it it's funny, when Obama says it it's chilling because he has his finger on the drone trigger if those croissants don't show up pronto.
― Moodles, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
morbs the kanye they're speaking of is kanye west, he's a rapper (it's when you talk in rhymes over a 'beat'), he's got an album about croissants out right now, lou reed loves it, says it reminds him of farts.
― balls, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 18:59 (ten years ago) link
lol alfred
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
hey balls, i was goin to rap shows long b4 yr pubes came in, just sayin
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgflip.com/13lz5.gif
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:01 (ten years ago) link
Moving on (gif hell on bookmarks).
― aldi young dudes (suzy), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 21:16 (ten years ago) link
Plane carrying Bolivian president, Eva Morales, rerouted to Austria on suspicion US whistleblower Edward Snowden is on board. More soon …
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:20 (ten years ago) link
idiot! so many embassies and he had to take a plane
― reet pish (imago), Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:22 (ten years ago) link
fuck you if you dont have #teamsnowden stickers on yr laptop right now
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:23 (ten years ago) link
idk if snowden was naive about the ruthless american war machine hunting him down, but i think maybe he was naive about the stability of the current world order - i think he's surprised to find out that the united states has the pull that it does
― Mordy , Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
that 'eva' morales was of course from the fine subs at the guardian
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 2 July 2013 23:30 (ten years ago) link
i think he's surprised to find out that the united states has the pull that it does
Massive irony in dude leaking proof of US omniscience taken by surprise by scope and reach of US power.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:17 (ten years ago) link
"Yeah, I knew they were recording and spying on countless phone calls and stuff, but who would have guessed they'd have so much away with their treaty-bound diplomatic allies?"
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:19 (ten years ago) link
― Le Bateau Ivre
― balls, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 00:21 (ten years ago) link
josh i look forward to your guide on evading us hegemony after leaking top secret documents
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:10 (ten years ago) link
whenever you make the time
when the dn changes to Josh in Bolivia, you will know he made the time
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:20 (ten years ago) link
Snowden reminds me a lot of guys you would see at hacker conventions in the early 90s - the corporate cyberpunks who talked a big game about how one day they were going take on the system and defeat Big Brother like it was a James Bond story. I think Snowden thought that the reveal itself would give him don't-kill-the-messenger immunity but he badly underestimated just how ruthless this type of Power operates - you would think the house in Hawaii, the high-paying job, and the dancing exhibitionist girlfriend would be a tip off. It works in organized crime.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 05:52 (ten years ago) link
i mean i cant read the guys mind who knows but i think yeah there's a decent chance he thought this would be like the end of a movie where he spills the beans and the corrupt gov't can no longer touch him because all its avatars are being prosecuted or hounded from office or whatever. and therefore underestimated not just US ruthlessness but the extent to which people care, or want to know, the revelations. (or OTOH the extent to which people *already knew* what his documents revealed
― max, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 10:39 (ten years ago) link
)
Awful lot of mind reading here!
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:03 (ten years ago) link
yeah I'm thinking he anticipated some of this could happen
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:34 (ten years ago) link
"We cannot offer you asylum because we just found out that the Americans have bugged our entire government. Your case means nothing to us."
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:37 (ten years ago) link
neway i found this about as infuriating as any of the stuff that snowden revealed, the pathetic way euro countries treated evo morales and his plane http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/04/world/snowden.html?hp
― max, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:42 (ten years ago) link
certainly Obama's remark – not sending fighter jets after a hacker – makes sense. He had other means of persuasion.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 11:56 (ten years ago) link
Like I said, the first step, retroactively, was to evade US hegemony before leaking docs.
I suppose the catch is finding asylum without it looking like some quid pro quo secrets-for-safe-haven trade. There's asylum, and then there's ... defection? But wtf does this guy care? He's not coming back here on his own. I don't know if that makes him brave or a coward that he's not willing to go full-martyr, but he's burned his bridges already.
Anyway, watch this: fly to Mexico on a vacation, fly to Cuba. Stay there. US hegemony: evaded! But at this point, post-leak, hornet nest -shaking, he's pretty screwed if he wants to live out the rest of his life in anything close to comfort. But he claims to have thought of that, per his initial comments, so who cares.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 13:42 (ten years ago) link
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5917093
― Allen (etaeoe), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 13:56 (ten years ago) link
huh that's interesting
― goole, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
I'm not a big fan of Big Brother government, but if there's anything a gov seems to be justified in going to the ends of the earth to achieve, it's catching a former employee who not only has leaked ample state secrets, threatened to leak more, fled the country in search of sanctuary and thumbed his nose at the US the whole time. Is it it any wonder no one wants this particular hot potato?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
justified in their eyes, yeah.
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
That's just silly. You can disagree with it, but there's really no way to defend it as unjustified. It'd be like if a guy robs a bank and flees the country and boasts about it and you being all, that's cool, well played. It's not like the US is sending out the drones to blow up Snowden family weddings.
Yet.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
but dude robbed a bank to treat his sick aunt...who is president of that very bank!
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:48 (ten years ago) link
the USG is a morally unjustifiable entity, but i'm not saying more with them watching, y'know
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:49 (ten years ago) link
saying more would be a bit like pissing into the ocean at this point, no?
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
prism consists of google, facebook, apple, twitter and ilx
― iatee, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
Obama has access to ALL your posts even the ones in 77
― iatee, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
Aybe-May ecan-may alk-tay in ode-cay?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
but dude robbed a bank to treat his sick aunt...who is president of that very bank!― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Is that a movie?
― how's life, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
it's a mountain dew commercial. his aunt is 'sick' in the sense that she does indy nosebones
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
― how's life, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
It'd be like if a guy robs a bank and flees the country and boasts about it and you being all, that's cool, well played
i mean i get what you're saying, even if i disagree, but this is sort of a poor analogy
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
I'll concede that.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
― iatee, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:52 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
aw hell
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:07 (ten years ago) link
lol we couldn't even keep 77 posts from leaking to BCO, of course the government has them
― big black nemesis, Puya chilensis (DJP), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
haha that was a joke ftr?
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
they've had access to 77 from the start, el tomboto was like the first person invited
― Romantic style in da world (crüt), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
crut how could you do this to us
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
Evo Morales is, with a stopover in Gran Canaria, now on the way home. But the involuntary stopover in Vienna Bolivian President leaves considerable repercussions. And questions, the answers are hidden in the false bottoms possibly that are standard in the diplomatic interiors.
i really enjoy google translate sometimes
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 17:20 (ten years ago) link
@MartinxHodgson Obama "not scrambling jets" to find #Snowden. Merely closing down European airspace and detaining a president!
Morales said Bolivia had not received a formal application for asylum from Snowden yet, but hinted it would consider any request favourably.
"If there were a request, of course we would be willing to debate and consider the idea," Morales told RT Actualidad, the Spanish-language service of Russian broadcaster RT.
"I know that the empires have an espionage network and are against the so-called developing countries. And in particular, against those which are rich in natural resources," he added.
His comments were echoed by favourable noises from Venezuela, another possible exit route for the former NSA contractor. President Nicolás Maduro said Caracas was also ready to consider Snowden's asylum should he ask for it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:15 (ten years ago) link
Not scrambling jets, just searching the jet of another country's president
Amid a growing diplomatic storm, the Bolivian president, Evo Morales, has been allowed to fly out of Vienna, but only after a 12-hour interruption during which his plane was stopped and searched for the whistleblower Edward Snowden.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:35 (ten years ago) link
tho obv i'm in the free eddie camp there's a part of me that's coming around to the notion that turning himself in would be the fastest way to make this story about spying again instead of about the spy
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
wondering how many liberals in '71 were rushing to compare dan ellsberg to a bank robber
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
get him away from the people who want to use him at WL to keep gasping at relevance, away from the politicians that want to make him an accidental anti-imperialist mascot...but then, the alternative is how many years of solitary before a trial that would see him dismantled xp
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:43 (ten years ago) link
It's not like the US is sending out the drones to blow up Snowden family weddings.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:43 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah they'd never kill an american who said some treasonous shit that aided the enemy and maybe his family for being in the wrong place at the wrong time amirite
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:44 (ten years ago) link
idk if this matters but my understanding of the pentagon papers was that, while classified, they didn't contain anything the public didn't already know from various news sources about what had happened in vietnam -- what the PP showed was that the pentagon itself knew how useless and hopeless the situation was, and had known for years (right?)
also when ellsberg leaked them he didn't have a bradley manning figure being put in solitary w/o charge for months previously...
― goole, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:52 (ten years ago) link
oddly, i remember my journalism professor in college saying basically the same thing -- that the PP were no big deal and nixon (being nixon) just went beserk for no reason. but according to wiki:
The Papers revealed that the U.S. had expanded its war with bombing of Cambodia and Laos, coastal raids on North Vietnam, and Marine Corps attacks, none of which had been reported by media in the US. The most damaging revelations in the papers revealed that four administrations, from Truman to Johnson, had misled the public regarding their intentions. For example, the John F. Kennedy administration had planned to overthrow South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem before his death in a November 1963 coup. President Johnson had decided to expand the war while promising "we seek no wider war" during his 1964 presidential campaign, including plans to bomb North Vietnam well before the 1964 Election. President Johnson had been outspoken against doing so during the election and claimed that his opponent Barry Goldwater was the one that wanted to bomb North Vietnam.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
mind you i don't think snowden = ellsberg or that the situations are exactly the same but all the same it's good to keep in mind that there was a time when ellsberg was not a beloved elder statesman of free speech et al, and that his actions were being denounced as treasonous. (also IIRC the PP were even more highly classified than what manning leaked, if not what snowden leaked.)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
how many liberals in '71 were rushing to compare dan ellsberg to a bank robber
well, back then Obama Democrats woulda been right of Rockefeller Republicans
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:07 (ten years ago) link
I think it's important to keep in mind this guy has spent the past 5+ years working with high level US secret intelligence across the world. Keep that in mind next time you read someone saying "This guy is stupid why didn't he do _this_ instead?" Clearly dude was privy to info the vast majority of us don't have, and undoubtedly that has informed his globe-trotting post-leak actions.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
The truth prob lies somewhere between 'what a dolt' and 'he's super-informed and playing n-dimensional chess'.
― Aimless, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:11 (ten years ago) link
bush jr was privy to all kinds of information but still thought invading iraq was a good idea, which i think indicates that access to intelligence doesn't necessarily replace personal intelligence.
― Mordy , Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:13 (ten years ago) link
yeah i saw a friend on twitter today suggesting 'what if all this asylum circus is just snowden's way of revealing the degree to which the us controls world affairs' and i was like um
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
There was just a piece in ... Wired? On NPR? Wherever. That went into about how much of the stuff Snowden leaked has been known, or at least highly suspected, for at least a decade. Will try to find.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
Is the big Snowden revelation the extent to which the US has been spying on/in other countries? Because that seems to be more diplomatically damaging than domestic eavesdropping.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
Like, here's an NPR interview with James Risin from 2003:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5127932
INSKEEP: Can I get you to explain your best understanding of the nuts and bolts of what the National Security Agency has been doing? Who's calling from where, who's listening and how are they doing that, as best you've been able to determine?Mr. RISEN: Well, what the government says they've been doing is eavesdropping on telephone and e-mail communications into and out of the United States without search warrants.
Mr. RISEN: Well, what the government says they've been doing is eavesdropping on telephone and e-mail communications into and out of the United States without search warrants.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:07 (ten years ago) link
Sorry, that was 2006
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
the big Snowden revelation to me is the extent to which Russia and Bolivia still give a shit about keeping in Amerikay's good graces.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
Yeah, that part is surprising!
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
The new Wired has a big NSA piece:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/general-keith-alexander-cyberwar/all/
But just six months later, Alexander and the rest of the American intelligence community suffered a devastating defeat when they were surprised by the attacks on 9/11. Following the assault, he ordered his Army intercept operators to begin illegally monitoring the phone calls and email of American citizens who had nothing to do with terrorism, including intimate calls between journalists and their spouses. Congress later gave retroactive immunity to the telecoms that assisted the government.
Anyway, this all might explain why Americans don't seem to care too much about this stuff. We've been sort of primed for these sorts of revelations, which I suppose is another sign of how bad it's gotten. So is the fact that Snowden, hero or loser or whatever he is, is afraid to return home to America to "face justice," given he knows absolutely well what a sham that would be.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:16 (ten years ago) link
yeah i was working my way through that on the train this morning, need to finish it
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/hacker-jester-targets-assange-snowden-ecuador
The Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy Museum, is famous for launching cyberattacks against WikiLeaks and Al Qaeda-linked web sites. According to a May story in Newsweek, he's also sought to reveal the identities of jihadists recruiting online and affiliates of the hacktivist group Anonymous. The Jester told the magazine that he views his hacking as an extension of his former military service (he claims that he was affiliated with a "rather famous" unit in Afghanistan), but he said that he has "no official relationship with law enforcement agencies." On his website he describes himself as "pro OUR Military, LEA [law enforcement agencies], & Intel Communities who do the same job no matter who is sitting in the big seat."In a June 26 blog post, the Jester writes that Snowden "is not a goddam hero, here to save Americans from 'the government' because of privacy infringements and breaches of the 4th amendment, he is a traitor and has jeopardized all our lives." He launched a similar tirade against Assange, who has been living in London's Ecuadorean Embassy for more than a year to dodge extradition, writing, "Let's not forget Assange isn't seeking asylum because he's some heroic whistleblower or do-gooder. He's wanted for questioning on a rape charge."On July 1, the Jester tweeted this:http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20shot%202013-07-02%20at%202.48.47%20PM.pngIn a subsequent series of tweets, the Jester alluded to hacking into the embassy's fire alarm system to force Assange out of the building. If Assange were to leave the embassy compound, he would face extradition to Sweden—where he's under investigation for sexual assault—or potentially to the United States, where Assange fears he could be prosecuted in connection with the publication of classified information allegedly leaked by Bradley Manning.Yesterday the Jester tweeted photos of what he believed to be fire alarms on the exterior of the Ecuadorean Embassy, asking locals to crowd-source the name and logo of the alarms. The Jester also tweeted the following map, isolating what he says are the wifi networks that Assange may be using within the embassy.http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20shot%202013-07-02%20at%202.45.45%20PM_1.png In addition to targeting Assange and Ecuador, the Jester circulated a list of 52 servers used by the Venezuelan government, which Snowden has reportedly also petitioned for asylum. The hacker told FoxNews.com on Tuesday that he would treat countries that consider housing Snowden as "enemies" (Snowden is requesting asylum in at least 21 countries). The Jester did not respond to an interview request from Mother Jones.
In a June 26 blog post, the Jester writes that Snowden "is not a goddam hero, here to save Americans from 'the government' because of privacy infringements and breaches of the 4th amendment, he is a traitor and has jeopardized all our lives." He launched a similar tirade against Assange, who has been living in London's Ecuadorean Embassy for more than a year to dodge extradition, writing, "Let's not forget Assange isn't seeking asylum because he's some heroic whistleblower or do-gooder. He's wanted for questioning on a rape charge."
On July 1, the Jester tweeted this:
http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20shot%202013-07-02%20at%202.48.47%20PM.png
In a subsequent series of tweets, the Jester alluded to hacking into the embassy's fire alarm system to force Assange out of the building. If Assange were to leave the embassy compound, he would face extradition to Sweden—where he's under investigation for sexual assault—or potentially to the United States, where Assange fears he could be prosecuted in connection with the publication of classified information allegedly leaked by Bradley Manning.
Yesterday the Jester tweeted photos of what he believed to be fire alarms on the exterior of the Ecuadorean Embassy, asking locals to crowd-source the name and logo of the alarms. The Jester also tweeted the following map, isolating what he says are the wifi networks that Assange may be using within the embassy.
http://www.motherjones.com/files/Screen%20shot%202013-07-02%20at%202.45.45%20PM_1.png In addition to targeting Assange and Ecuador, the Jester circulated a list of 52 servers used by the Venezuelan government, which Snowden has reportedly also petitioned for asylum. The hacker told FoxNews.com on Tuesday that he would treat countries that consider housing Snowden as "enemies" (Snowden is requesting asylum in at least 21 countries). The Jester did not respond to an interview request from Mother Jones.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:26 (ten years ago) link
The Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy MuseumThe Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy MuseumThe Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy MuseumThe Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy MuseumThe Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy MuseumThe Jester, who has one of his computers on display in the International Spy Museum
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:27 (ten years ago) link
this two-part piece on the history of the NSA and whistleblowers is a must-read:
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies/412c6c31f2a8081c10456a2f2c1087f345176369/
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/nsa-whistleblowers-for-dummies-ii/81bc80840972053356854f3ac8c87cc4834afb97/
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:30 (ten years ago) link
Chris Hayes made a point of reminding people of Admiral Poindexter's efforts in 2002.
― A deeper shade of lol (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:34 (ten years ago) link
Slate:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2013/07/edward_snowden_and_asylum_he_is_a_terrible_candidate.html
Snowden has few options left. Any country with an extradition treaty with the United States would probably extradite him—so his efforts to get into Germany or France are pretty pointless. Perhaps, if he reached Cuba or Bolivia, he could stay in one of those countries, in the process giving up the civil liberties that he holds so dear.Even Snowden’s supporters realize that he must face the music. The Guardian, having wrung him dry of secrets, has solemnly declared that he should be tried albeit as a “whistleblower,” whatever that means. If he returns to the United States, prosecutors can and will charge him under whatever law he broke, and that includes the Espionage Act. He is likely to be convicted, but he has an outside chance of an embarrassing mistrial, a nullifying jury, even a sympathetic judge who goes easy on him in sentencing. Americans have a soft spot for people like Snowden. This country has a long history of unsuccessful prosecutions of dissenters, from the alleged Nazi sympathizer Elizabeth Dilling, to the Chicago Eight, to Daniel Ellsberg. Thoreau, abettors of fugitive slaves, civil rights protesters, and Vietnam-era draft dodgers are honored in historical memory. The founders themselves were traitors who made good. Today, secure but stifling in the embrace of a government that protects us from crime, terrorism, old age, and ill health by keeping track of our every move, we play Patrick Henry and enact harmless mini-rebellions by cheering on people like Snowden and Julian Assange. They defy the system without threatening it.
Even Snowden’s supporters realize that he must face the music. The Guardian, having wrung him dry of secrets, has solemnly declared that he should be tried albeit as a “whistleblower,” whatever that means. If he returns to the United States, prosecutors can and will charge him under whatever law he broke, and that includes the Espionage Act. He is likely to be convicted, but he has an outside chance of an embarrassing mistrial, a nullifying jury, even a sympathetic judge who goes easy on him in sentencing. Americans have a soft spot for people like Snowden. This country has a long history of unsuccessful prosecutions of dissenters, from the alleged Nazi sympathizer Elizabeth Dilling, to the Chicago Eight, to Daniel Ellsberg. Thoreau, abettors of fugitive slaves, civil rights protesters, and Vietnam-era draft dodgers are honored in historical memory. The founders themselves were traitors who made good. Today, secure but stifling in the embrace of a government that protects us from crime, terrorism, old age, and ill health by keeping track of our every move, we play Patrick Henry and enact harmless mini-rebellions by cheering on people like Snowden and Julian Assange. They defy the system without threatening it.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
eric posner doesn't know what a 'whistleblower' is, huh?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:52 (ten years ago) link
I think he meant that he doesn't know what "being tried as a 'whistleblower'" means. Glad I could help.
― Sufjan Grafton, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:54 (ten years ago) link
Does contemporary Bolivia have a notably poor record on civil liberties?
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:55 (ten years ago) link
lol did the guardian actually say he should be tried???
― balls, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:57 (ten years ago) link
thank you us government for protecting me from ill health with cellphone metadata what a country
― discreet, Wednesday, 3 July 2013 21:58 (ten years ago) link
Protecting us from old age wtf?
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 3 July 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
Indeed. Morales seems to be even worse on this than his hero Chavez.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 4 July 2013 00:00 (ten years ago) link
As a total aside, here's a site that streamlines the entire process of filing a FOIA request to pull FBI files: http://www.getgrandpasfbifile.com
It's fun! Getting an envelope in the mail addressed from the FBI (logo and all!) is such a cheap thrill.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 4 July 2013 00:16 (ten years ago) link
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, July 3, 2013 5:30 PM (Yesterday)
thanks for this!
― k3vin k., Thursday, 4 July 2013 10:41 (ten years ago) link
i'd never heard of this mag/blog before, but that was a really well-written piece. makes me want to finally pick up takeover and finish it for good. interesting thesis that it was the shift from economics to reacting against the expanding security state that led to the sorry democratic party we've got today (though the author doesn't go into how the democrats managed to reverse themselves on the former). teaser for morbs:
That turn against government and towards market solutions eventually led to where we are today under Obama, the worst of both the national security state and austerity politics, a smoldering toxic dump of all the worst that the Democratic Party has offered.
― k3vin k., Thursday, 4 July 2013 11:21 (ten years ago) link
It's run by Mark Ames who used to do The Exile with Matt Taibbi - quite a few of the writers (Yasha Levine, etc) are the same. I've been meaning to get a subscription for a while.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Thursday, 4 July 2013 11:25 (ten years ago) link
ftr, that sentence i quoted isn't representative of the article itself at all; it's an excellent history
― k3vin k., Thursday, 4 July 2013 11:29 (ten years ago) link
also the article does address the left's slide away from protecting leakers (with the ACLU as the vanguard!) - i hadn't finished the last section
― k3vin k., Thursday, 4 July 2013 11:37 (ten years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/07/05/french_surveillance_program_european_nation_has_similar_spying_program_as.html
― Mordy , Saturday, 6 July 2013 22:10 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/us/in-secret-court-vastly-broadens-powers-of-nsa.html
NY Times sums up how FISA Court gave NSA more power; and how FISA Court is selected by Justice Roberts and is largely a rubberstamp despite its claims of being more than that
― curmudgeon, Monday, 8 July 2013 14:41 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html?hpid=z2
Ellsberg editorial re Snowden being correct in fleeing
― curmudgeon, Monday, 8 July 2013 15:34 (ten years ago) link
Part 2 of Snowden interview.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jul/08/edward-snowden-video-interview
― oscar, Tuesday, 9 July 2013 01:31 (ten years ago) link
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/07/10/196362/trapped-an-air-escape-from-moscow.html
Snowden’s best hope for breaking out of the transit area most likely hinges on whether he could sneak onto one of five weekly, direct flights to Havana, Cuba. One such flight landed Tuesday evening, another leaves Thursday afternoon. The main drawback? The path takes the plane directly over the United States, which could flout a standing treaty and force a regularly scheduled commercial flight to land.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 12 July 2013 15:02 (ten years ago) link
Has everyone else amassed hundreds of links related to surveillance states due to Snowden's leaks? At one point I was reading about 5 articles about or related to it a day for a couple of weeks. Then I realised I wasn't reading anything else and couldn't really continue. But I keep all those links and many more to read for later.
I'm surprised no one has made a repository for links related to the surveillance state.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
The NSA has done so.
So Snowden may just stay in Russia because its too difficult for him to fly anywhere
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/snowden-wants-meeting-with-human-rights-activists-lawyers/2013/07/12/237d5254-eac6-11e2-a301-ea5a8116d211_story.html?hpid=z1
― curmudgeon, Friday, 12 July 2013 16:31 (ten years ago) link
Curmudgeon, link?
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 16:41 (ten years ago) link
Here is Snowden's actual statement (far better to post the original, I feel):
http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 16:51 (ten years ago) link
i think that's a joke about how the nsa has made a repository of links
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 12 July 2013 16:55 (ten years ago) link
I can't imagine the NSA being objective. They would need some way to brainwash most of the people who work for them, so their links/info on surveillance states would be pretty bias and would not include one of the most dangerous organisations, in my opinion.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
ts: waterface vs crimsonhexagon
― k3vin k., Friday, 12 July 2013 17:23 (ten years ago) link
Joking about NSA link list...
― curmudgeon, Friday, 12 July 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
this belongs here:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/matmos-covers-bow-wow-wow,100019/
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Friday, 12 July 2013 17:37 (ten years ago) link
Olaf Koens @obk
Lukin adds: 'He doesn't look very well fed, a skinny guy. But he has a great haircut'
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 12 July 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
ts: waterface vs crimsonhexagon― k3vin k., Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― k3vin k., Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 18:58 (ten years ago) link
taking sides
― ⚓ (elmo argonaut), Friday, 12 July 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
eliot argonaut
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 12 July 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
ok, so let me get this right: the reason he's stuck in russia is that there's literally no flight plan that doesn't go over a country that would force it to land so they could detain snowden?
― the late great, Friday, 12 July 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
ok, so let me get this right: the reason he's stuck in russia is that there's literally no flight plan that doesn't go over a country that would force it to land so they could detain snowden?― the late great, Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― the late great, Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 12 July 2013 19:45 (ten years ago) link
As we have seen, however, some governments in Western European and North American states have demonstrated a willingness to act outside the law, and this behavior persists today. This unlawful threat makes it impossible for me to travel to Latin America and enjoy the asylum granted there in accordance with our shared rights.
Man, what does the US have against this guy??
― Mordy , Friday, 12 July 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
seems like the solution is a non-commercial flight (like morales's) where there might be some flexibility with the flight plan? i'm not sure how that works.
― wmlynch, Friday, 12 July 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
With Napolitano leaving, there are now 15 open top positions in DHS
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 12 July 2013 23:02 (ten years ago) link
_ok, so let me get this right: the reason he's stuck in russia is that there's literally no flight plan that doesn't go over a country that would force it to land so they could detain snowden?― the late great, Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink_I am trying to interpret your tone. If what you say is taken at face value, yes. But I sense you're trying to convey some type of befuddlement, shock or surprise. Am I wrong? I had written a rant in response, in case I wasn't, but I don't fully understand ILXor dynamics, so I've chosen to censor myself. --c21m50nh3x460n
― the late great, Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink_
I am trying to interpret your tone. If what you say is taken at face value, yes. But I sense you're trying to convey some type of befuddlement, shock or surprise. Am I wrong? I had written a rant in response, in case I wasn't, but I don't fully understand ILXor dynamics, so I've chosen to censor myself. --c21m50nh3x460n
I'm not sure why any reading of this post would merit a rant
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 12 July 2013 23:33 (ten years ago) link
eh no offense intended, it was an honest question
― the late great, Friday, 12 July 2013 23:36 (ten years ago) link
from what i can gather russia hasn't cleared him to leave yet?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 12 July 2013 23:41 (ten years ago) link
_ok, so let me get this right: the reason he's stuck in russia is that there's literally no flight plan that doesn't go over a country that would force it to land so they could detain snowden?― the late great, Friday, July 12, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink_I am trying to interpret your tone. If what you say is taken at face value, yes. But I sense you're trying to convey some type of befuddlement, shock or surprise. Am I wrong? I had written a rant in response, in case I wasn't, but I don't fully understand ILXor dynamics, so I've chosen to censor myself.--c21m50nh3x460nI'm not sure why any reading of this post would merit a rant
I am trying to interpret your tone. If what you say is taken at face value, yes. But I sense you're trying to convey some type of befuddlement, shock or surprise. Am I wrong? I had written a rant in response, in case I wasn't, but I don't fully understand ILXor dynamics, so I've chosen to censor myself.--c21m50nh3x460n
Didn't mean to come off accusatory, so my apologies to the late great if I did.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Saturday, 13 July 2013 16:34 (ten years ago) link
Anyway, here is a video of Snowden's speech, from a Russian newspaper:
http://lifenews.ru/news/116311
― c21m50nh3x460n, Saturday, 13 July 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
How surreal is watching this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXXshWGrDEQ
I'm waiting for all the nouveau NSA/PRISM fiction and movies to come out already.
Just look at that lady's eyes.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Sunday, 14 July 2013 15:51 (ten years ago) link
Had to rewrite the first third of a story I'm working on.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 July 2013 22:39 (ten years ago) link
Actually, I'm working on one, as well.
Hope yours turns out better than mine.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Sunday, 14 July 2013 22:44 (ten years ago) link
Basically, we have to encrypt EVERYTHING
Travellers' mobile phone data seized by police at border - TelegraphOfficers use counter-terrorism laws to remove a mobile phone from any passenger they wish coming through UK air, sea and international rail ports and then scour their data.It echoes concerns surrounding an almost identical power police can use on the streets of the UK, which is being reviewed by the Information Commissioner.However, in those circumstances police must have grounds for suspicion and the phone can only be seized if the individual is arrested.Mr Anderson said: “Information downloaded from mobile phones seized at ports has been very useful in disrupting terrorists and bringing them to justice.“But ordinary travellers need to know that their private information will not be taken without good reason, or retained by the police for any longer than is necessary.”Up to 60,000 people a year are “stopped and examined” as they enter or return to the UK under powers contained in the Terrorism Act 2000.
Officers use counter-terrorism laws to remove a mobile phone from any passenger they wish coming through UK air, sea and international rail ports and then scour their data.
It echoes concerns surrounding an almost identical power police can use on the streets of the UK, which is being reviewed by the Information Commissioner.
However, in those circumstances police must have grounds for suspicion and the phone can only be seized if the individual is arrested.
Mr Anderson said: “Information downloaded from mobile phones seized at ports has been very useful in disrupting terrorists and bringing them to justice.
“But ordinary travellers need to know that their private information will not be taken without good reason, or retained by the police for any longer than is necessary.”
Up to 60,000 people a year are “stopped and examined” as they enter or return to the UK under powers contained in the Terrorism Act 2000.
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 July 2013 23:05 (ten years ago) link
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57593688/greenwald-snowden-documents-detail-nsa-blueprint/
I don't think this Greenwald statement will help Snowden get a flight that can find a place to refuel (or make it past the US) and make it South, but who knows.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 15 July 2013 13:51 (ten years ago) link
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-snowden-dubious-present-174832824.html
In comments reported by Russian news agencies during a meeting with students, Putin noted that Snowden flew to Moscow on June 23 "without invitation," intending only to transit to another country.But Putin says the United States intimidated other countries against accepting Snowden, effectively blocking him from flying further."Such a present to us. Merry Christmas," he was quoted as telling the students on the Gulf of Finland island of Gogland.
But Putin says the United States intimidated other countries against accepting Snowden, effectively blocking him from flying further.
"Such a present to us. Merry Christmas," he was quoted as telling the students on the Gulf of Finland island of Gogland.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 15 July 2013 19:15 (ten years ago) link
The NSA article of the day:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23328074
"Fugitive Edward Snowden applies for asylum in Russia"
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 17:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-committee-holds-hearing-on-nsa-surveillance-programs/2013/07/17/ffc3056c-eee3-11e2-9008-61e94a7ea20d_story.html?hpid=z1
Dem lawmakers claim they will change the Patriot Act. Will see.
FBI cites same old Zazi case to defend NSA, when numerous folks have suggested that Zazi was caught with a flashdrive from which evidence was obtained--not via NSA data collection.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 17 July 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
Dem lawmakers claim they will change the Patriot Act.
That trick never works!
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 July 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
these people have ruined the internet as we know it, perhaps forever.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-surveillance-house-hearing
John C Inglis, the deputy director of the surveillance agency, told a member of the House judiciary committee that NSA analysts can perform "a second or third hop query" through its collections of telephone data and internet records in order to find connections to terrorist organizations."Hops" refers to a technical term indicating connections between people. A three-hop query means that the NSA can look at data not only from a suspected terrorist, but from everyone that suspect communicated with, and then from everyone those people communicated with, and then from everyone all of those people communicated with.
"Hops" refers to a technical term indicating connections between people. A three-hop query means that the NSA can look at data not only from a suspected terrorist, but from everyone that suspect communicated with, and then from everyone those people communicated with, and then from everyone all of those people communicated with.
thanks Government of the world.
― man. pero man. man man man (wolves lacan), Thursday, 18 July 2013 18:38 (ten years ago) link
rip kevin bacon
― Z S, Thursday, 18 July 2013 18:41 (ten years ago) link
Wasn't going to clutter this thread with so many links, but what the hay.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/nsa-admits-it-analyzes-more-peoples-data-previously-revealed/67287/
Basically, trails of phone calls are being monitored. so if A phones B, when B phones C is also tracked, and also when C phones D. You know, just in case. *George Dubya laugh*
http://rt.com/usa/obama-ndaa-appeal-suit-229/
"Congress granted the president the authority to arrest and hold individuals accused of terrorism without due process under the NDAA". But Obama said he won't abuse of his power, and all of us should believe him because he has kept all his promises since the start of his reign (whoops.).
http://rt.com/usa/carter-comment-nsa-snowden-261/
Jimmy Carter sayin' it like he sees it. I want to see a face off of Nobel Prize winners: Obama vs Carter. My, how times have changed.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:06 (ten years ago) link
And a bonus, TSA searches valet-parked cars without warning/permission: http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S3101080.shtml?cat=566
(Slightly off-topic, I know.)
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:08 (ten years ago) link
war criminal henry kissinger received the nobel peace prize in 1973.
― man. pero man. man man man (wolves lacan), Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
carter otm
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:24 (ten years ago) link
(insert usual chomsky diatribe about how all presidents are war criminals, especially jimmy carter)
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
Was just thinking of that. It's like politics at the core involves a corrupt soul/ideology. You can't win 'em all.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:36 (ten years ago) link
"You see, Mr. Gittes, most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything."
― Plasmon, Thursday, 18 July 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/snowden-unplugged/dab0de95e248669103f78ad090b63fc75edad001/
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 18 July 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
Former U.S. president Jimmy Carter is so concerned about the NSA spying scandal that he thinks it has essentially resulted in a suspension of American democracy.
“America does not at the moment have a functioning democracy,” he said at an event in Atlanta on Tuesday sponsored by the Atlantik Bruecke, a private nonprofit association working to further the German-U.S. relationship. The association’s name is German for “Atlantic bridge.”
― Mordy , Thursday, 18 July 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
omg are they gonna invade france again
― zvookster, Friday, 19 July 2013 00:37 (ten years ago) link
This is just going to make the anti-German conspiracy crowd nuts again.
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 19 July 2013 10:56 (ten years ago) link
Piece on the radio this morning on how this doofus may have already compromised all his secrets, whether he wanted to or not, because, go figure, Russia ad China spy on people and steal secrets, too.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 19 July 2013 12:12 (ten years ago) link
nice adjective josh. if you startpage "english dictionary" the first result is dictionary.reference.comand and they say
doo·fus:[doo-fuhs]noun, plural doo·fus·es.Slang. a foolish or inept person.
doofus (?du?f?s):informal chiefly (US) a slow-witted or stupid person
that is the last thing that comes to mind when someone says Edward Snowden. I guess since I'm not one of the 300+ million lucky people allowed by birth? divine right? to intercept the entire communications of planet earth, to decide the meaning of words and vote for those who later arbitrarily decide who gets killed by economic sanctions / bombs / flying robots based on aristocratic interests I will just keep quiet and try my best to avoid this spectacle of horror.
― man. pero man. man man man (wolves lacan), Friday, 19 July 2013 17:33 (ten years ago) link
Wolves, I actually thought along similar lines, but I didn't want to shake the boat.
Then I thought, well, he did create a dead man's switch, which might be an indication that there is information he doesn't want to necessarily release, but which I think is now out of his hands, in a roundabout way.
So, yes, I agree. To call Snowden a 'doofus' sounds silly, but he might've made a mistake if the above is correct.
But we've not got a clue, as his purpose for all of this might be to ultimately release everything and ruin US relationships with just about every single Latin American country and various important trade partners.
Personally, his decision to go with Russia makes sense to me, even though there are drawbacks/trade-offs.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 19 July 2013 17:50 (ten years ago) link
Wolves, I don't understand your post. Personally, I don't care where he ends up or what he leaks, if that's your issue. I just meant that he's been trying to land asylum in Russia, and Russia said it would only grant him asylum on condition he stop leaking. But if his stuff has been stolen or compromised, then he obviously has no power to stop it from leaking. Which may screw him out of Russian asylum. Hence, doofus, since his sloppiness (maybe) will prevent him from getting what he wants. He's not slow-witted or stupid, but he certainly may have been foolish or, ultimately, inept.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 19 July 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
Here's a good one from yesterday:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/18/white-house-silent-renewal-nsa-court-order
At Wednesday's hearing, Litt was asked by Bob Goodlatte, the chairman of the House judiciary committee, if the administration thought if a surveillance program "of this magnitude … could be indefinitely kept secret from the American people?"
"Well," Litt replied, "we tried."
I want to see these people (officials and senators) faces on huge posters with what they did and plan to do with the NSA.
Freeway billboards in California!
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 19 July 2013 18:00 (ten years ago) link
"I'm Keith B. Alexander, and I lost 50 pounds with the Lap-Band™! I read your email."
― kaiju rolling stone cover (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 19 July 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
Wolves, I don't understand your post. Personally, I don't care where he ends up or what he leaks, if that's your issue. I just meant that he's been trying to land asylum in Russia, and Russia said it would only grant him asylum on condition he stop leaking. But if his stuff has been stolen or compromised, then he obviously has no power to stop it from leaking. Which may screw him out of Russian asylum. Hence, doofus, since his sloppiness (maybe) will prevent him from getting what he wants. He's not slow-witted or stupid, but he certainly may have been foolish or, ultimately, inept.― Josh in Chicago, Friday, July 19, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, July 19, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
My interpretation of the situation is this: now that Snowden has leaked everything, he can happily agree to Russia's orders, since he has nothing else to leak. The question is whether Snowden purposely leaked everything in order to make it public or if he wants some of it unreleased or used kind of like 'blackmail'. Personally, I believe he wants all of it released, so it is just how it will be released, whether it is by someone killing him or a third-party releasing it. I think it's kind of an all-or-nothing thing. The release of information is also being carefully planned, so it is spread out in various intervals, because if everything was released from the get-go, people would forget about it. The way it is being released now, bit by bit in intervals, it's a constant reminder to society of the monster that is the NSA. Also, it serves as a game where the US gov't tries to rationalise, defend, and justify its actions, and then more info is leaked that shows that the US gov't is constantly lying.
I think it is mind game for him and a way to release himself morally, at least partially, from whatever harm the US gov't now may suffer due to his leaks. Russia knows this. Russia still does not play well with the US and if anything atrocious is released about the US, Russia can say Snowden agreed to no longer release info which he had control of henceforth. It is a very sneaky strategy, but it works.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 19 July 2013 18:16 (ten years ago) link
I think he must be aware that the "russians" are just as bad as the "americans and partners" or the "chinese" and the switch is insurance against them all.
this is not about the people, you or me wherever we are, problem is what appear to be national governments, and who they represent. "they" have the same interests against "us". tectonic movements. thanks to this poor man, we know for certain that the structure is already in place, it works. on the other side, notice the ever increasing number of spontaneous mass insurrections from such disparate places? europe, middle east, latin america. it is not coincidence IMHO.
― man. pero man. man man man (wolves lacan), Friday, 19 July 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
Does anyone really believe that Putin cares if he leaks more information or not? I assumed he just said that to mollify Obama and he'll either give Snowden asylum or not based on whatever practical political calculations are important to him.
― Mordy , Friday, 19 July 2013 18:31 (ten years ago) link
Earlier in this thread Josh was busy carrying on regarding how Snowden should have foreseen in advance everything that has happened. I am now waiting to read "Snowden awaits a meeting in Russian airport with ilxor Josh in Chicago. Josh is the world's foremost expert on how and what one should leak and whistleblow, where one should announce that from, and how to seek asylum, and how to secure all the remaining information one has on their person."
― curmudgeon, Friday, 19 July 2013 18:34 (ten years ago) link
Eh, who gives a fuck. I know because I am Snowden. There, I said it. Encrypt this, dorks.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 19 July 2013 18:39 (ten years ago) link
what is the prerequisite to making a determination on what one should leak and whistleblow? surely this is an issue of personal morality
― Mordy , Friday, 19 July 2013 18:40 (ten years ago) link
what is the prerequisite to making a determination on what one should leak and whistleblow? surely this is an issue of personal morality― Mordy , Friday, July 19, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy , Friday, July 19, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
If a reporter, such as Greenwald, is the one publicising the leaks, then I agree with you, it is personal morality or lack thereof.
What's funny is that there's a 'rumour' of the leaks ruining US-Latin America relations. Most Latin Americans know all the fucked up things the US has done to Latin America and how the US treats that part of the world like their backyard.
A bit tangential, but for Latin Americans, there is already proof of the crimes the US has committed. The leaks would only serve to reinforce this and finally out the English-speaking governments crimes in a way that is in no way refutable.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 19 July 2013 19:17 (ten years ago) link
https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/5/26/1369583426757/Iraqi-children-take-cover-008.jpg
back: US governmentfront: rest of the world
― man. pero man. man man man (wolves lacan), Friday, 19 July 2013 19:28 (ten years ago) link
wolves lacan otfm
could it be any other way
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 20 July 2013 04:41 (ten years ago) link
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:26 PM (2 days ago)
really might have to just subscribe to this thing. thanks again
― k3vin k., Saturday, 20 July 2013 12:09 (ten years ago) link
News from the James Risen front: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/20/us/in-major-ruling-court-orders-times-reporter-to-testify.html?src=un&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjson8.nytimes.com%2Fpages%2Fpolitics%2Findex.jsonp
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 20 July 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
mega-ughhhh at that
― k3vin k., Saturday, 20 July 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us/politics/math-behind-leak-crackdown-153-cases-4-years-0-indictments.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
on the reasons behind obama's decision to more aggressively prosecute leakers, and where we're at now
― k3vin k., Sunday, 21 July 2013 13:17 (ten years ago) link
“My background is in the Navy, and it is good to hang an admiral once in a while as an example to the others,” said Mr. Blair, who left the administration in 2010. “We were hoping to get somebody and make people realize that there are consequences to this and it needed to stop.”
need to send a foia request to see how many admirals the navy has hung in the last 50 years
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Sunday, 21 July 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
Last month, a federal court granted Chevron access to nine years of email metadata—which includes names, time stamps, and detailed location data and login info, but not content—belonging to activists, lawyers, and journalists who criticized the company for drilling in Ecuador and leaving behind a trail of toxic sludge and leaky pipelines. Since 1993, when the litigation began, Chevron has lost multiple appeals and has been ordered to pay plaintiffs from native communities about $19 billion to cover the cost of environmental damage. Chevron alleges that it is the victim of a mass extortion conspiracy, which is why the company is asking Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft, which owns Hotmail, to cough up the email data. When Lewis Kaplan, a federal judge in New York, granted the Microsoft subpoena last month, he ruled it didn't violate the First Amendment because Americans weren't among the people targeted.Now Mother Jones has learned that the targeted accounts do include Americans—a revelation that calls the validity of the subpoena into question.
Now Mother Jones has learned that the targeted accounts do include Americans—a revelation that calls the validity of the subpoena into question.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/chevron-ecuador-american-email-legal-activists-journalists
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Monday, 22 July 2013 21:11 (ten years ago) link
WTF?
― Z S, Monday, 22 July 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
Wow, I had been following that case. Fuckin chevron.
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Monday, 22 July 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link
You didn't expect this to happen?
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 22 July 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
I didn't expect them to get caught so quick!
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Monday, 22 July 2013 22:48 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/07/former-cia-chief-snowdens-leak-is-a-little-like-the-boston-bombers/278066/
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 24 July 2013 19:31 (ten years ago) link
that fuck
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 24 July 2013 20:35 (ten years ago) link
The End of National Security Reporting
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 24 July 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
The issue is at what point does Islamic fundamentalism flip-over and become a genuine national security threat? Likewise, at what point does a cultural tendency towards transparency flip-over to become a deep threat inside your system?
lol idk the answer to the first question but the answer to the second one is "immediately", asshole
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 25 July 2013 00:30 (ten years ago) link
So, er, this was closer than the administration wanted: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/us/politics/house-defeats-effort-to-rein-in-nsa-data-gathering.html?ref=politics
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 July 2013 00:31 (ten years ago) link
I don't know - on NPR this morning they were already saying that it was going to be a tight vote and I'm sure the WH is just happy the President won't have to veto it.
― Mordy , Thursday, 25 July 2013 00:32 (ten years ago) link
I'm sorry he wasn't put in that position
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 25 July 2013 00:37 (ten years ago) link
After spending weeks ardently defending the surveillance efforts, the intelligence committee leaders promised reforms when they begin drafting the intelligence authorization act.
oh thank goodness
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 25 July 2013 00:38 (ten years ago) link
my congressman voted for it
― Mordy , Thursday, 25 July 2013 01:17 (ten years ago) link
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml
so Democrats were 111-83 for Amash, i.e. Warren could run against Rodham for president if she wanted to.
Greenwald on how Bachmann, Pelosi, Obama are natural allies on this issue:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/25/democratic-establishment-nsa
― playwright Greg Marlowe, secretly in love with Mary (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 July 2013 14:20 (ten years ago) link
U.S. Tells Russia It Won’t Torture or Kill Snowden
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/world/europe/edward-snowden.html?_r=0
I hope I don't have to read about the loophole the US gov't will use around this.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 26 July 2013 17:27 (ten years ago) link
http://rt.com/news/snowden-russia-extradite-us-634/
“Russia has never extradited anyone, and will not extradite,” said Vladimir Putin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov.
Syria. This. Now we just need another article reminding us of Russia continuing their petroleum exploration in the Arctic.
Let the Games begin.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 26 July 2013 17:38 (ten years ago) link
http://antonyloewenstein.com/2013/07/29/chomsky-praises-snowden-and-condemns-us-hypocrisy/
― k3vin k., Sunday, 28 July 2013 16:32 (ten years ago) link
If you're interested
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 29 July 2013 22:50 (ten years ago) link
There's no cryptography thread and I don't think that link merits an entire thread on it...yet.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 29 July 2013 22:52 (ten years ago) link
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130727/02332323967/keith-alexanders-lobbying-calls-to-congress-kicked-off-with-joke-about-how-he-already-had-their-number.shtml
Last week we had a story about how Nancy Pelosi helped kill the Amash Amendment to defund the controversial practice of having the NSA collect tons of info on every phone call made, in part by dragging along a bunch of Democratic representatives. Now, the National Review has some of the story from the other side of the aisle, about how the GOP leadership tried very very hard to keep the amendment from even coming to the floor, trying all sorts of procedural tricks. Eventually, it appears that John Boehner allowed the amendment to be voted on after a brief chat with Amash -- though no one seems exactly sure why. Boehner supports the surveillance program and voted against the amendment (which they note is rare, since he normally abstains from such votes). However, there is one tidbit in the article that struck me as interesting. We'd already mentioned how Keith Alexander of the NSA went on an emergency lobbying campaign with Congressional reps after learning that the amendment would actually come to a vote, but there's this little tidbit to add some color:Alexander, the NSA chief, was forced to personally lobby members, calling their cell phones and opening with a joke that, yes, he already had their number.
However, there is one tidbit in the article that struck me as interesting. We'd already mentioned how Keith Alexander of the NSA went on an emergency lobbying campaign with Congressional reps after learning that the amendment would actually come to a vote, but there's this little tidbit to add some color:
Alexander, the NSA chief, was forced to personally lobby members, calling their cell phones and opening with a joke that, yes, he already had their number.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 30 July 2013 00:05 (ten years ago) link
wow, the NSA headquarters sure is a scary-looking monolith. They couldn't have made it look more like an Orwellian Ministry of Freedom if they tried.http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/reuters/2013-07-24t192830z_1_cbre96n1i4v00_rtroptp_3_usa.grid-6x2.jpg
― Random .mdb Memories (NotEnough), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 09:32 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
So, it's official. The NSA have every single data from chat conversations, what sites you visit, what you look at, etc., which it said it did not have access to nor did it track. Whoops!
Big Brother has a name. And it's called XKeyscore. Hehe!
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
hey no ackerman byline, aw
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 17:46 (ten years ago) link
man oh man
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 17:53 (ten years ago) link
wow
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 31 July 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
yeah, that xkeyscore ppt graphic is atrocious.
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 31 July 2013 23:41 (ten years ago) link
the crappy powerpoint is what gives it credibility
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 1 August 2013 02:24 (ten years ago) link
welp.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 02:28 (ten years ago) link
the banality of ppt
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Thursday, 1 August 2013 03:29 (ten years ago) link
that ppt is positively David Reesian
― rip van wanko, Thursday, 1 August 2013 04:30 (ten years ago) link
proud of greenwald/snowden/whoever for timing the release so well, so that the nsa had time to lie between each phase. idk maybe that's leaking 101 but i never took that.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 04:53 (ten years ago) link
in the comments of the story somebody's like 'hey why the hell are you giving them a chance to do damage control over and over you should have released this weeks ago' and greenwald said something very journalisty about 'it takes time to confirm and vet each of these documents yada yada,' but i do think its at least in part driven by what you're talking abt dlh
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 1 August 2013 04:58 (ten years ago) link
also, in theory, the public would be having a "conversation" about each stage of this as it unfolds.
― Z S, Thursday, 1 August 2013 05:03 (ten years ago) link
this is seriously nuts. i'd assumed all the big revelations were out of the way. i wonder wtf's next.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 1 August 2013 05:40 (ten years ago) link
let's just say the xbox one's pr problems aren't over
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 05:48 (ten years ago) link
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah, this is kind of beautiful. it just means the credibility of the "intelligence community" is damaged over and over again.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 1 August 2013 06:18 (ten years ago) link
what's even "funnier" is the senators and congressmen who, without any real knowledge of this stuff, back up whatever the intelligence leaders are saying at the moment. i would not hitch my wagon to these folks if i were a politician right now.
it does seem like with each round another politician gets off the bus, but maybe that's just me projecting.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 1 August 2013 06:20 (ten years ago) link
E-Snow granted asylum by PuttyPut
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 August 2013 13:07 (ten years ago) link
are Dianne Fienstein's aides resigning in protest?
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 August 2013 13:10 (ten years ago) link
Some media can handle only 1 item at a time. Washington Post covers NSA head Alexander at Black Hat cyber conference but I don't see a mention of the Xkeyscore item that the Guardian ran.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 August 2013 14:22 (ten years ago) link
So if an American family was vacationing overseas and called their friends back home, spying in on them wouldn't be spying on Americans? Great logic NSA, that'll go down well.
― wombspace (abanana), Thursday, 1 August 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
NSA survived that vote in the House, they're not too worried.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 August 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
survived by the skin of their teeth
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Thursday, 1 August 2013 16:23 (ten years ago) link
writer for maura magazine googles pressure cookers, gets a visit from the jttf
They mentioned that they do this about 100 times a week. And that 99 of those visits turn out to be nothing.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 16:38 (ten years ago) link
You'd think that if one team found 52 potential terror bomber plots per year, you'd hear about it.
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Thursday, 1 August 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/01/nsa-paid-gchq-spying-edward-snowden
NSA is giving lots of money to GCHQ, the UK spy agency
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 1 August 2013 17:00 (ten years ago) link
(A workaround for NSA to spy on Americans via a third-party, of course)
And here is a nice little gem:
Another pitch to keep the US happy involves reminding Washington that the UK is less regulated than the US. The British agency described this as one of its key "selling points". This was made explicit two years ago when GCHQ set out its priorities for the coming years."We both accept and accommodate NSA's different way of working," the document said. "We are less constrained by NSA's concerns about compliance".
"We both accept and accommodate NSA's different way of working," the document said. "We are less constrained by NSA's concerns about compliance".
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 1 August 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
this is enjoyable reading when contrasted against william hague's statements
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Thursday, 1 August 2013 17:22 (ten years ago) link
im looking at earthtools and its 6500 miles direct from petropavlovsk to managua, (the nearest international airport in a country that has given him permanent asylum) and it wouldn't involve crossing any us-friendly airspace
that is well within the limits of long-haul airliners even allowing for a slightly indirect flightpath so he just needs to crowdsource the cash to charter a plane
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Thursday, 1 August 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
In case it's not obvious to some what Nilmar is talking about: http://rt.com/news/snowden-entry-papers-russia-902/
And I'll add to that a quote from the article:
A statement by the WikiLeaks has revealed the words Snowden said after he was handed the Russian asylum certificate. "Over the past eight weeks we have seen the Obama administration show no respect for international or domestic law, but in the end the law is winning,” the NSA leaker stressed. “I thank the Russian Federation for granting me asylum in accordance with its laws and international obligations."
"Over the past eight weeks we have seen the Obama administration show no respect for international or domestic law, but in the end the law is winning,” the NSA leaker stressed. “I thank the Russian Federation for granting me asylum in accordance with its laws and international obligations."
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 1 August 2013 18:01 (ten years ago) link
saw sullivan making a lot of noise about how accepting russian assistance damages snowden's position in public opinion, because he looks like he's "defecting" to russia...do people younger than 35 perceive it that way at all? it seems like a holdover of cold war framing by old people to me. i don't mean that younger people don't understand the current situation with civil rights in russia, obviously.
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Thursday, 1 August 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
it's a lol irony because of civil rights in russia and is obviously putin tweaking obama's nose but no i can't imagine, like, being mad at snowden or thinking it says something dark about snowden that he's going to someone's apartment for some borscht after sitting in a goddam airport for a month.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 18:36 (ten years ago) link
i think it delegitimizes some of the moral force of his case, however a) i can't imagine much more than the hong kong trip did, b) i think even if you aren't a snowden fan it's easy to see that he doesn't have a lot of good options at the moment, and c) probably his case should matter more than the person delivering it
― Mordy , Thursday, 1 August 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
eh I dunno can you get good borscht in Russia these days?
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 August 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
you couldn't for a while, but then putin came
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:01 (ten years ago) link
it's spelled "poutine"
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:04 (ten years ago) link
the google / visit from the jttf story is astonishing. this needs to be front page news. maybe it will help people get it.
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
saw sullivan making a lot of noise about how accepting russian assistance damages snowden's position in public opinion, because he looks like he's "defecting" to russia
does sully realize that russia is not at war with the u.s.?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:38 (ten years ago) link
google/jttf story is really, really fishy
― max, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:40 (ten years ago) link
yeah, without some independent confirmation I'm not inclined to assume that really happened
― Brad C., Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:43 (ten years ago) link
i watch c-span of theswe hearings quite often, twice now, and I get the impression of a certain type of universal incompetance of a kind of unsure future..
def makes u wnt2gt n2 cryptography
i can't remember much of what i was watching..
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
how is monitoring the internet/phone not a necessity for technological puriy if driving forcew of culture (such as psychedelia, questionably) are not in a harmony with it.. this is a general question.
i am for prison planet, as i would commit myself as a drug addict, but i respect psychonautical life whether religiousitily based or in the government programmes or //..
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:46 (ten years ago) link
right now drug culture seems to be defeating itself in uyearning for technological innovation in a n untenable syhstem of pseudopsychedelic mind-based facets of a multiverse that may not exist if it's behaviour is as such... but then again i can see the myopic workism of a corpocracy being too... unloving, or not free. but then again i would call that a projection of the mind itself. the concreteness of the universe is probably quite spelled out in theory of the mind, pshychaitry, etc, so i do not mean to be too... naive.
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:49 (ten years ago) link
dude
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
or even the poison of a negated voice based in symbol and abscontion, might ber the tru iissu
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:50 (ten years ago) link
dude :P :-) :-b
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 19:51 (ten years ago) link
suppositionally speaking
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
my favorite new poster ^
― Mordy , Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:08 (ten years ago) link
nonblog version of pressure cooker story. another one. weird passing-the-buck thing where everyone contacted denies their organization's role in the visit without denying the visit itself, which yes could mean the visit never happened, and no we still don't have any evidence for it besides that blog post:
A spokesman for the FBI told to Guardian on Thursday that its investigators were not involved in the visit, but that "she was visited by Nassau County police department … They were working in conjunction with Suffolk County police department."A Nassau County police spokesman later said the department's officers were not involved. The Guardian has contacted the Suffolk County police department for comment.
A Nassau County police spokesman later said the department's officers were not involved. The Guardian has contacted the Suffolk County police department for comment.
In a conversation with The Atlantic Wire, FBI spokesperson Peter Donald confirmed The Guardian's report that the FBI was not involved in the visit itself. Asked if the FBI was involved in providing information that led to the visit, Donald replied that he could not answer the question at this point, as he didn't know.We asked if the Suffolk and Nassau police, which The Guardian reported were the authorities that effected the visit, are part of the government's regional Joint Terrorism Task Force. They are, he replied, representing two of the 52 agencies that participate. He said that local police are often deputized federal marshals for that purpose — but that the JTTF "did not visit the residence." He later clarified: "Any officers, agents, or other representatives of the JTTF did not visit that location."We are awaiting a response from Suffolk County police and the Department of Homeland Security which operates an investigatory fusion center in the region. A representative of the Nassau County police denied the department's involvement in the visit.
We asked if the Suffolk and Nassau police, which The Guardian reported were the authorities that effected the visit, are part of the government's regional Joint Terrorism Task Force. They are, he replied, representing two of the 52 agencies that participate. He said that local police are often deputized federal marshals for that purpose — but that the JTTF "did not visit the residence." He later clarified: "Any officers, agents, or other representatives of the JTTF did not visit that location."
We are awaiting a response from Suffolk County police and the Department of Homeland Security which operates an investigatory fusion center in the region. A representative of the Nassau County police denied the department's involvement in the visit.
the whole point of the jttf post-9/11 tho is blurring lines between federal/homesec police and local police, "improving cooperation" etc, so feds saying "it was just local police" doesn't mean much to me unless suffolk county denies it too in which case huh.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:09 (ten years ago) link
im more interested in arab psychiatric torture anywhoo.
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:11 (ten years ago) link
sorry, that's rather inappropriate, or apropos
:/
or off topic
― color definition point of "beyond "color, eg a transient that, Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:12 (ten years ago) link
note that the atlantic piece very responsibly uses a photo from the boston manhunt to illustrate the article
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:17 (ten years ago) link
doesn't seem like a journo who would make things up plus they repurposed the post for the guardian, so seem to be standing by it?
way outlandish tho
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:27 (ten years ago) link
Him seeking help from Russia certainly doesn't damage his standing in my eyes. I think the whole thing is largely a question of generational lines. For me the Soviet Union was a historical villain, it just doesn't have the scaring power that it would were I a baby boomer who grew up in the age of Cold War propaganda.
Regardless of what happens to him or how he is portrayed by the media or anything else, he should be content in knowing that what he has done is set an example, and that maybe the generation that grows up with Edward Snowdens already in the world will expect a higher level of transparency, legitimately delivered or not.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:28 (ten years ago) link
don't know about "regardless of what happens to him." i mean, if he disappears or spends the rest of his days in the clink i guess the next generations will have an example.
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Thursday, 1 August 2013 20:36 (ten years ago) link
considering how powerful the US is and how many countries would be eager to execute its every whim, Snowden's options of places that would help him basically limits him to countries that are on the US' bad side
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 1 August 2013 21:02 (ten years ago) link
Does anyone want a job as an XKEYSCORE Systems Engineer?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/01/is-xkeyscore-still-active-defense-contractor-posted-a-job-listing-for-it-2-weeks-ago/
Have a look at the spy tools' codenames for other Xkeyscore jobs Cryptome dug up: http://cryptome.org/2013/08/nsa-xkeyscore-saic.htm
Haha. Love it.
Also, with regard to someone mentioning getting into crypto, lots of it is infosec which is a lot of Fed/defence/gov't stuff. so it's difficult to have any...um...let's say "impact". Of course, if you are looking to be the next Snowden, all bets are off. And good luck with that. Dunno. Very political and nutty/surreal.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 1 August 2013 23:11 (ten years ago) link
http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/01/employer-tipped-off-police-in-pressure-cookerbackpack-gate-not-google/
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 1 August 2013 23:48 (ten years ago) link
ah ok, thanks lbi. my other theory was disgruntled neighbor.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Friday, 2 August 2013 01:41 (ten years ago) link
It's not less amazing to learn she was turned in by her employer tbh. Didn't half the world google those words after the Boston bombings?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 August 2013 01:51 (ten years ago) link
To be honest, I thought her story was a little fishy. Not that it counts for anything, but I had a hunch something didn't add up. I'm glad and surprised the story unfolded as quickly as it did, though. Kind of makes me wonder....
I mean, with this whole surveillance state thing, it can be used to explain various scenarios, which may be (partially) true, but it is a little disingenuous and misleading.
For me, it's more important to find out that XKeyscore is still going on and they are still recruiting engineers for it.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 2 August 2013 02:06 (ten years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/nsas-internet-taps-can-find-systems-to-hack-track-vpns-and-word-docs/
Bringing up Iran is a good one.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 2 August 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
Roy Edroso has some things to say about Pressurecookergate as well.
― Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Friday, 2 August 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
cheers me that this is what reverb motherfuckers grow up to be
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Friday, 2 August 2013 15:13 (ten years ago) link
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/02/the_whistleblower_may_have_to_hold_his_tongue
― Mordy , Saturday, 3 August 2013 00:47 (ten years ago) link
not gonna sign up to read that tbh
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:05 (ten years ago) link
protip click the reader button in safari and the annoying signup box goes away
― i too went to college (silby), Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:06 (ten years ago) link
or disable javascript, or whatever
not lying: i read all mordy's foreign policy links through the greyed-out gap between the signup box and the bottom of the screen
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:13 (ten years ago) link
Snowden's choice of Russia as the place to hide out from the U.S. justice system is "more than weird," says Vladimir Varfolomeyev, an editor at Echo of Moscow radio station. "He might as well be whistleblowing about America from North Korea, Iran, or Uzbekistan." Besides, if Snowden had heard of Pussy Riot or Magnitsky, he wouldn't have praised the rule of law in Russia, the journalist added.
'choice''had heard of'
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:15 (ten years ago) link
what can we do to end the tedious meta-dialogue about whether his choice of asylum country is some kind of reflection of his aims as a leaker, that working to live somewhere else as an avoidance of decades in prison in his own country that felt the need to assure the world it would't torture or kill him doesn't hollow out the morality of his stance, i'm so fucking sick of this
/bruneau
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:18 (ten years ago) link
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:27 (ten years ago) link
there is a discontuinity in that snowden being in russia is conditional on putin's glee in fucking over obama, which is a legacy of cold war tu quoque arguments, except that world no longer exists
so he is in a vestigial space between philby & sakharov and a more diffuse world order where dissidents seek sanctuary in whichever nation has relative political indemity or a demagogic interest in upsetting their country of origin
his eventual home will probably be one of those latin american nations that were humiliated by the treatment of evo morales in austria, in addition to the usual litany of complaints against america
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Saturday, 3 August 2013 01:31 (ten years ago) link
Hey guys,
Just a quick note on getting around pay-wall articles: copy the URL, then go to www.google.com and paste it on there and search for it. Click on link. That should get rid of it.
Also, you can try Googling the headline/title of the article, but sometimes the article headline changes.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:02 (ten years ago) link
tbh is there much clucking among "lib" bloggers? Only Sully has tut-tutted.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:02 (ten years ago) link
paste it on there = paste it on Google's search field (in case it isn't obvious :S)
lolol
so an edit was made to snowden's wiki page to read "edward snowden is an american traitor"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_Snowden&diff=566904988&oldid=566903734
Revision as of 20:53, 2 August 2013 (edit) (undo)156.33.241.5 (talk)(changed dissident to traitor)
dig a bit:
156.33.241.5 looks to be located in Stafford, Virginia in United States based on our research.Host: 156.33.241.5IP: 156.33.241.5Hostname: ISP: United States SenateOrganization: US SenateCity: StaffordRegion: Virginia
Host: 156.33.241.5IP: 156.33.241.5Hostname: ISP: United States SenateOrganization: US SenateCity: StaffordRegion: Virginia
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:16 (ten years ago) link
drunk intern strikes again
― balls, Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:18 (ten years ago) link
fuckin guy
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:21 (ten years ago) link
User contributionsFor 156.33.241.5 (talk | block log | uploads | logs | filter log)
20:53, 2 August 2013 (diff | hist) . . (-2) . . Edward Snowden (changed dissident to traitor)
20:45, 2 August 2013 (diff | hist) . . (-4) . . The Five People You Meet in Heaven (deleted redundant 'was' in first paragraph) (current)
15:36, 29 July 2013 (diff | hist) . . (0) . . Donald E. Graham (current)
18:50, 17 July 2013 (diff | hist) . . (+74) . . Tonga Room (Added credits for 1967 redesign) (current)
21:14, 2 July 2013 (diff | hist) . . (+1) . . Pork (→Disease in pork: the FSIS is part of the USDA and not a part of the FDA)
14:11, 7 June 2013 (diff | hist) . . (+15) . . Samanids (→Domination)
14:07, 7 June 2013 (diff | hist) . . (+171) . . Samarkand (→The pre-Mongol period)
18:30, 28 February 2013 (diff | hist) . . (+3) . . Ruger Super Redhawk (→The introduction: Minor edit to reflect original Redhawk still remaining in production and 4" availability)
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:29 (ten years ago) link
22:14, 2 August 2013 (diff | hist) . . (-2) . . my dick (changed my dick to my giant dick)
― Z S, Saturday, 3 August 2013 02:31 (ten years ago) link
In today's news: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/04/congress-nsa-denied-access
*The House was asked to vote on whether to defund the NSA programme or not*Congressmen are not allowed to know even basic info on it, yet still vote on it*Some people seem to be more in favour of the NSA--these include Feinstein and Rogers, and the latter got a nice little perk (more $s)*A quote:
Whatever else is true, members of Congress in general clearly know next to nothing about the NSA and the FISA court beyond what they read in the media, and those who try to rectify that are being actively blocked from finding out.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Sunday, 4 August 2013 15:24 (ten years ago) link
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805
So many things to quote from that article. I just can't decide.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 5 August 2013 16:49 (ten years ago) link
dlh that is fukkin hilarious
― R'LIAH (goole), Monday, 5 August 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
also now on tpm -
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/did-someone-in-senate-edit-snowdens-wikipedia-page
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 5 August 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
the gentlemanly institution
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 5 August 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, August 5, 2013 11:49 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
jesus
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Monday, 5 August 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
So it's just going to be this way from here on out. Good luck to us all.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 00:21 (ten years ago) link
Article of the day: Under civil forfeiture, Americans who haven’t been charged with wrongdoing can be stripped of their cash, cars, and even homes. Is that all we’re losing?
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 01:08 (ten years ago) link
If all this stuff was so secret, none of us would be discussing it. The system works!
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 01:20 (ten years ago) link
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:16 (ten years ago) link
so it seems to me either
- al qaeda is not as decimated as we have been led to believe, and still capable of launching a fearsome attack- the 'intercept' aspect of this is being played up, likely with leaks to republicans who can safely gin up 'just like 9/11' nonsense, as surveillance damage control
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:36 (ten years ago) link
yeah i haven't come into this thread like SUSPICIOUS cuz it makes me feel like a stoner but um it's p fuckin suspicious
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:39 (ten years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:40 (ten years ago) link
Two brain dead Republicans, notably lobotomy victim Peter King, made the rounds of the talk shows yesterday saying the Obama administration was right to summon John Ashcroft from the dead to ask Admiral "Buster" Poindexter to reactivate color-coded warnings.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:45 (ten years ago) link
boo hiss:
The county’s district attorney, a fifty-seven-year-old woman with feathered Charlie’s Angels hair named Lynda K. Russell, arrived an hour later. Russell, who moonlighted locally as a country singer,
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 02:48 (ten years ago) link
between that horrifying 'civil forfeiture' article and the newspaper shit and the NSA shit and the eminent attack/convenient distraction i...kinda want to go back to bed
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 6 August 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
You probably need a bunker, not a bed.
Or better yet: a bed in a bunker.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 6 August 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
Make sure to put your bed bunker inside another bunker.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 00:39 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/06/us/tsa-expands-duties-beyond-airport-security.html?pagewanted=all
― Fetchboy, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 05:48 (ten years ago) link
given their public-pleasing work, this is simply natural
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 06:25 (ten years ago) link
soon we'll be employed by the NSA, spying on each other
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 09:11 (ten years ago) link
although i was kind of shocked that the TSA's entire budget is 100 million dollars. that's less than one x-men: first class!
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 09:13 (ten years ago) link
One potential endgame is that Total Information Awareness gets shutdown because it's unaffordable to run.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 09:29 (ten years ago) link
"If and when our government grabs Edward Snowden, and brings him back here to the United States for trial, what does this group do?" said retired air force general Michael Hayden, who from 1999 to 2009 ran the NSA and then the CIA, referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years"."They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said, using a shorthand for US military networks. "So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida."http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/06/nsa-director-cyber-terrorism-snowden
"They may want to come after the US government, but frankly, you know, the dot-mil stuff is about the hardest target in the United States," Hayden said, using a shorthand for US military networks. "So if they can't create great harm to dot-mil, who are they going after? Who for them are the World Trade Centers? The World Trade Centers, as they were for al-Qaida."
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/06/nsa-director-cyber-terrorism-snowden
Eff this guy.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:18 (ten years ago) link
"in which he confessed to being deliberately provocative"
― on fire after blowout in gulf (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
i would imagine, after his conduct of late, that the WTC of the snowden set might be michael hayden
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
"honey when did we order 4000 pizzas"
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:41 (ten years ago) link
etired air force general Michael Hayden, who from 1999 to 2009 ran the NSA and then the CIA, referring to "nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years".
"nihilists, anarchists, activists, Lulzsec, Anonymous, twentysomethings who haven't talked to the opposite sex in five or six years" sounds like a description of CIA membership.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:47 (ten years ago) link
yeah, it's the Brit spies who are all queer, right?
Under civil forfeiture, Americans who haven’t been charged with wrongdoing can be stripped of their cash, cars, and even homes.
Cars and homes are for herberts, baby; I fly low.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:49 (ten years ago) link
nihilists
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 14:59 (ten years ago) link
although i was kind of shocked that the TSA's entire budget is 100 million dollars. that's less than one x-men: first class!― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm sure they get paid very little.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 15:57 (ten years ago) link
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering
Drug cases, on the other hand, made up 20 percent of all federal criminal cases filed in 2012, the second most prosecuted type of crime after immigration cases. If the government acknowledges it has to disclose when FAA evidence has been used to make a drug case—even if it's a tip leading to a pretextual traffic stop—the number of challenges to FAA evidence will increase dramatically.
And:
Taken together, the Fifth and Sixth Amendments guarantee a criminal defendant a meaningful opportunity to present a defense and challenge the government's case. But this intelligence laundering deprives defendants of these important constitutional protections. It makes it harder for prosecutors to comply with their ethical obligation under Brady v. Maryland to disclose any exculpatory or favorable evidence to the defense—an obligation that extends to disclosing evidence bearing on the reliability of a government witness. Hiding the source of information used by the government to initiate an investigation or make an arrest means defendants are deprived of the opportunity to challenge the accuracy or veracity of the government's investigation, let alone seek out favorable evidence in the government's possession.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:01 (ten years ago) link
those are unionized federal jobs
http://tsa.afge.org/represent.cfm
http://www.tsa.gov/careers/pay-bands
while it's true the lower pay bands are not great, this site claims the avg is around $15/hr
http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/TSA-Transportation-Security-Administration-Hourly-Pay-E41347.htm
― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
so yeah you sound really classist
Wait, you think $15/hr is not low pay?
For the most part, living in a major US city, $15/hr does not go a very long way.
The minimum wage for a decent quality of life in Los Angeles is way over $15/hr. More like $20/hr, and even that falls short.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:16 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/obama-putin-talks-canceled-snowden
Cold War talk has commenced!
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:17 (ten years ago) link
$15 is below median for just about every market, yes
but then again "but have you seen the type of people who are hired to do that work at the airport?"
― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:20 (ten years ago) link
when are the dudes who wrote the article about the al qaeda conference call gonna get arrested
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:22 (ten years ago) link
so yeah you sound really classist― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:23 (ten years ago) link
but then again "but have you seen the type of people who are hired to do that work at the airport?"― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Come on, dude. I am all in favour of a large(r) middle class. But the TSA is a joke.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
paying ppl crap wages is a pretty good way to increase abuse/corruption
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
Exactly, Dr.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:27 (ten years ago) link
i have more than once been struck by the dull-witted, almost thuggish obstinacy of TSA workers, so i can only object so much
― IIIrd Datekeeper (contenderizer), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:30 (ten years ago) link
thank you for going on the record about the meritocracy
― max, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
"Meritocracy" is a word I really only ever hear classists use.
― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:44 (ten years ago) link
as a meritocrat i can confirm your belief
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:46 (ten years ago) link
"Meritocracy" is a word I really only ever hear classists use.― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:44 (10 minutes ago) Permalink
― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:44 (10 minutes ago) Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 16:56 (ten years ago) link
"open your ears" is an argument I really only ever hear p-funk use
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 17:33 (ten years ago) link
Haven't heard that one. I'm more familiar with Motor Booty Affair.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 17:54 (ten years ago) link
everyone should start calling Benghazi "the motor booty affair"
― sassy, fun, and RELATABLE (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 18:30 (ten years ago) link
That sounds dictatorial.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
mister president the american people deserve to know the truth about the motor booty affair
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/Images/2013/8/2/20138222246288734_20.jpg
edvard dzhozef snouden
― Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
an intelligence official said the controversial NSA programs that gather data on American phone calls or track Internet communications with suspected terrorists played no part in detecting the initial tip. That official spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to discuss the spying publicly.A U.S. official familiar with the threat information said the decision to close the embassies was based on a broad swath of information, not just the intercept
A U.S. official familiar with the threat information said the decision to close the embassies was based on a broad swath of information, not just the intercept
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/state-dept-posts-19-countries-remain-closed
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 20:14 (ten years ago) link
Not to sound classist, but have you seen the type of people who are hired to do that work at the airport?I'm sure they get paid very little.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 10:57 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
TBH this sounds more racist than classist
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 20:44 (ten years ago) link
most TSA officers just look uncomfortable and bored, which is what I'd be in about 30 seconds if I had their job
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 20:48 (ten years ago) link
you'd think security theater could at least be entertaining
on my flight to Chicago a few weeks ago the TSA guy reminding us to follow the rules smiled a lot. Maybe he got head in the garage before work?
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
Not to sound classist, but have you seen the type of people who are hired to do that work at the airport?I'm sure they get paid very little.― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 10:57 AM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post PermalinkTBH this sounds more racist than classist― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 20:44 (1 hour ago) Permalink
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 20:44 (1 hour ago) Permalink
Now you're just putting words in my mouth.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 22:11 (ten years ago) link
(As in, I can't imagine in what dimension what I said could be interpreted as a reference to race.)
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 22:12 (ten years ago) link
"type of people" -- what can you learn about the backgrounds of TSA employees from seeing them for a minute or two at a time?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:01 (ten years ago) link
they just look like normal people. in chicago they seem to be about 80% black/hispanic.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:02 (ten years ago) link
Of course, this is all from my experience. I like to think I've done my fair share of travelling. So, that plus the articles on them, I think this is a different case than a simple generalisation after a few minutes of the TSA accosting me. But then I also don't think very highly of the US border patrol, and I've definitely never seen a black person working there.
Here is a random article, for starters: http://www.infowars.com/government-report-tsa-corruption-misconduct-soaring/
Any other time, I'd probably agree with you, though.
I've been to Chicago, but never through the TSA there. But just to clarify, I'm not singling out a race or races.
In Los Angeles, I don't recall there being enough black people for them to stand out in my memory.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:14 (ten years ago) link
(Actually, I wouldn't be able to tell you the race of the last TSA screener who checked my stuff.)
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:19 (ten years ago) link
lol you got caught being a straight republican instead of just a libertarian, just own up and move on already
― balls, Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:46 (ten years ago) link
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:14 PM
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 August 2013 23:49 (ten years ago) link
it's one thing to link to a bunch of articles about TSA employees being corrupt/whatever
it's another to say you can guess what "type" of people they are just by looking at them. i mean what do you glean by looking at them other than gender/race/weight and the fact that they are working a shitty, low-paying job? i mean, yeah, you can probably surmise that they weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths b/c they are, after all, working a shitty job. but beyond that...?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 00:26 (ten years ago) link
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:19 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh wow you don't see color how enlightened
― stefon taylor swiftboat (s.clover), Thursday, 8 August 2013 01:34 (ten years ago) link
i think we've piled on enough... time to move on to the next article detailing the newest revelation about which government agency is trampling on the constitution...
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 01:35 (ten years ago) link
NASA trying to get to mars just bc there's no constitution there, and they would sure enjoy that
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 8 August 2013 05:39 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114234/lawrence-odonnell-yells-julia-ioffe-about-putin-and-snowden
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:24 (ten years ago) link
there's a weird thing afoot of ppl wanting to boycott olympics over their truly horrifying ott homophobic policies, ppl wanting to boycott olympics over snowden/syria/'romney was right', and ppl decidedly opposed to any boycott of olympics cuz hey russia is right to bash gays/harbor snowden/arm assad. very skeptical a boycott is possible or likely (by and large history hasn't looked favorably at carter's boycott as far as i can tell), it's really not obama's style (though i could see him wanting to fuck over the olympics for personal reasons), and i'm not even sure the using russia's anti-gay policies as cover for a boycott actually motivated by realpolitik motivations would work (doubt the concerns over russia's anti-gay policies has registered at all for putin tbh, certainly not to any degree he remotely takes seriously, esp since the activism so far has taken the form of boycotting a vodka bottled in latvia by a company hq'ed in luxembourg. dan savage, genius, strikes again.), if americans were mixed over boycotting olympics over russia invading another country when russia was the proverbial boogeyman and an actual existential threat i kinda doubt they're gonna be more on board w/ an issue they know little about (and hence would definitely see as cover for snowden motivated boycott)(syria so far off the radar for average american no way would that occur as actual reason) and would probably only read as 'o so they're like chik-fil-a' if they did find out about it.
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:41 (ten years ago) link
We should poll these bullet points:
Vladimir Putin is not omnipotent. He does not control everything that happens in the Russian Federation, a vast and often inhospitable landmass that spans 10 time zones.
Similarly, Barack Obama does not have total control over the minutiae of the United States of America.
Putin does not orchestrate, he reacts. Putin is no chess player. He is a knee-jerk, short-sighted little tyrant. Don't give him credit where credit isn't due.
Americans, especially Americans who have never been to Russia, overestimate the abilities of both Putin and the Russians. Because, I mean, come on. Tank!
The Russians did not create the Snowden situation; Julian Assange and the U.S. government did. Assange insinuated himself into the situation and sent Snowden to Ecuador (the country granting him asylum) through Russia (his great friend).
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:44 (ten years ago) link
would be so pissed if we boycoted the olympics, i love the olympics
― max, Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:46 (ten years ago) link
Tank!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:48 (ten years ago) link
max otm
― k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 12:55 (ten years ago) link
― max, Thursday, August 8, 2013 7:46 AM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
at least you could watch it online w/o all those constant "let's take a look this american athlete's life story" interludes
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:02 (ten years ago) link
The genuine calls for a boycott are definitely being capitalised on by those wanting to isolate Russia over Snowdon.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:04 (ten years ago) link
haha my commie ass is all 'as long as we don't boycott the world cup', the fuck has happened to me
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:17 (ten years ago) link
It's a tough one for people to square, i think. People (often legitimately) want to send a message to Russia, a country where homosexuality is legal for anyone over the age of 16, but wouldn't dream of doing the same for Qatar or Texas where it's prohibited by law.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:22 (ten years ago) link
obama on leno - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5ARGYMxmaY
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 13:33 (ten years ago) link
balls otm up there.
would be so orgasmic if we boycotted the Olympics, I hate the Olympics.
(But no TV too, plz)
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 14:16 (ten years ago) link
what do you have against spectacles of human accomplishment?
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 14:47 (ten years ago) link
oh wait, you hate everything. except some spielberg movies IIRC.
national anthems + curious standard of "accomplishment." xp
I love lots of things where people in unitards don't get point scores from judges.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 14:49 (ten years ago) link
if only there were sports in the olympics that werent gymnastics
― max, Thursday, 8 August 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
the olympics are the worst but the winter olympics are fine
― The concept of making the Zuiderzee docile (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Thursday, 8 August 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
We're good at curling
― Tommy McTommy (Tom D.), Thursday, 8 August 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
k max, I consider frilly dresses and other skating outfits to be in the unitard "family"
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
national anthems + curious standard of "accomplishment."
same standard humanity's had since the dawn of civilization: tests of endurance, strength, flexibility, strategy...
i mean the olympics are a lot of BS in many ways but when you break it down to the essentials it's hard not to be fascinated, unless you are completely numbed/deadened i guess
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 15:46 (ten years ago) link
the winter olympics is preferable to summer because its less of the 'lets just show butts' festival that nbc puts on in the summer
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 8 August 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
humans have enjoyed butts since even before the dawn of civilization, tho
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 15:56 (ten years ago) link
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1178116/stupid-sexy-flanders-o.gif
― Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:02 (ten years ago) link
it's easy not to be fascinated by a quadrennial tarted-up clusterfuck that has room for ppl jumping over things on horses, but not baseball.
"deadened," man, better than being wished dead i guess
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:04 (ten years ago) link
i thought baseball was in?
if it's not, i can see why not tho. not enough countries! cricket ain't in there either.
― R'LIAH (goole), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
They voted it out in 2005.
― Here's the storify, of a lovely ladify (Phil D.), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
people jumping over things on horses is pretty cool, wish they would speed it up a bit tho
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
TANK!
― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 8 August 2013 16:37 (ten years ago) link
lol you got caught being a straight republican instead of just a libertarian, just own up and move on already― balls, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― balls, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
In Los Angeles, I don't recall there being enough black people for them to stand out in my memory.― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, August 7, 2013 7:14 PM― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's one thing to link to a bunch of articles about TSA employees being corrupt/whateverit's another to say you can guess what "type" of people they are just by looking at them. i mean what do you glean by looking at them other than gender/race/weight and the fact that they are working a shitty, low-paying job? i mean, yeah, you can probably surmise that they weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths b/c they are, after all, working a shitty job. but beyond that...?― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, August 7, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
First, let me make sure I understand what you're saying. You're criticising me for making an assumption about these people, but by doing so, you yourself are making an assumption about me with just a couple of lines over an Internet forum. Um...is this some type of joke? Let's put that aside for now, though.
I am not judging the TSA by "looking at them". I am judging them by how they treat me, their approach, their tone, demeanour, mannerisms. Do I really have to say that this is a human element all of us do? And when I say "type", I mean "poor work ethic". I'm in the strange position of being able to offer negative anecdotal experience but cannot because it is too personal. But suffice it to say that I know people who have been treated poorly by the TSA, including myself, on various occasions, including some who were involved in getting banned from the US, and another who flies twice a week for two years. All of us have experience flying into or through the US. And actually, I wouldn't even be able to surmise that these people weren't born with silver spoons. You seem determined to make this about race, which I'll get to in a minute. My comment was a reference to their attitude and professional work ethic. You can have poor work ethic regardless of the colour of your skin. I would never make a comment like the one I did were it not for strong evidence of the TSA's corruption. But with first-hand and anecdotal experience plus the numbers, I feel I can do so.
With regard to US race issues, I can only view it from the perspective of a foreigner who has travelled in and through the US. Notice this isn't the race thread. I do not pretend to understand the nuances of race in American life. In fact, a lot of it leaves me perplexed, to be honest with you. I am not American and do not think I have the acuteness or sensitivity to speak to racism in America, because I have not lived here all my life.
I feel like we're talking across from each other. Or we're having separate arguments.
I love your country and multiculturalism. It is one of many things I love about living in Los Angeles. Each city/country has its pros and cons, though, and I was simply highlighting something that had already been proven to be the case. I was not trying to make a controversial commentary on race in doublespeak. Again, I don't think I understand enough of race dynamics in the US to do so, so if I ever do talk about it, I'd probably tread carefully and approach it from a "learner's/beginner's" point of view, if that makes sense.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:01 (ten years ago) link
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/9287652/images/gifs/getout.gif
― max, Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
But anyway, the reason I came in looking for this thread, was because of this little gem:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/05/technology/social/snowden-vkontakte/
So, Snowden has been offered a job at VKontakte, the Russian social networking site.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:09 (ten years ago) link
i will say i scanned past all those paragraphs and then my eyes fell on "I love your country" and I lol'd irl
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
^
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:39 (ten years ago) link
Sorry, it sounds trite, but it is true :)
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
"mansplain"
― k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:40 (ten years ago) link
http://iusbvision.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/yakov-smirnoff.jpg
― R'LIAH (goole), Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:42 (ten years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 8 August 2013 17:55 (ten years ago) link
the olympics are incredible, good grief
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 8 August 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
and i don't even like sports
EXACTLY
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 August 2013 18:06 (ten years ago) link
haha
― k3vin k., Thursday, 8 August 2013 18:13 (ten years ago) link
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 August 2013 18:32 (ten years ago) link
hahaha love the olympics (though yeah fuck american coverage and not just cuz dumb time delays and bio sketches) but if we boycott one definitely let it be a winter olympics, some real sketchy symbolism w/ the winter olympics period.
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:18 (ten years ago) link
here we go
― balls, Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:32 (ten years ago) link
lol this georgia shit again
― R'LIAH (goole), Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:46 (ten years ago) link
(not you balls)
dudes sure do miss the good old cold war days huh
― waterface down (jjjusten), Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:51 (ten years ago) link
who will direct the cold war reboot
― maven with rockabilly glasses (Matt P), Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:54 (ten years ago) link
michael bay duh
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 August 2013 20:58 (ten years ago) link
im guessing that fred thompson has a lot of free time on his hands these days, time to expand his role in the entertainment industry
― waterface down (jjjusten), Thursday, 8 August 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/8/4602966/email-service-used-by-edward-snowden-abruptly-shuts-down-to-avoid
― i too went to college (silby), Thursday, 8 August 2013 21:20 (ten years ago) link
if we boycott one definitely let it be a winter olympics, some real sketchy symbolism w/ the winter olympics period.
yeah
― max, Thursday, 8 August 2013 22:00 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/8/4602966/email-service-used-by-edward-snowden-abruptly-shuts-down-to-avoid― i too went to college (silby), Thursday, August 8, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― i too went to college (silby), Thursday, August 8, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 8 August 2013 22:10 (ten years ago) link
looks like a 4602966 to me
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 8 August 2013 22:35 (ten years ago) link
hmmmm.....
http://www.josepvinaixa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Katy-Perry-Prism-Promotional-2013-1200x1200.png
― breastcrawl, Thursday, 8 August 2013 23:09 (ten years ago) link
I kissed NSA and I liked it
― breastcrawl, Thursday, 8 August 2013 23:10 (ten years ago) link
http://preview.reuters.com/2013/8/9/nsa-to-cut-system-administrators-by-90-percent-to
― It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Friday, 9 August 2013 02:43 (ten years ago) link
Nothing can backfire with this plan, right.
can we plz install a lockbox outside the door there
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 9 August 2013 19:59 (ten years ago) link
he's on it
http://media.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/photo/al-gore-social-securityjpg-16139c5b64004bc8_large.jpg
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 9 August 2013 20:06 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-to-announce-proposals-to-reform-nsa-surveillance/2013/08/09/ee3d6762-011a-11e3-9711-3708310f6f4d_story.html?hpid=z1
Obama at press conference expressing support for some changes while still claiming Snowden could have contested procedures here as a whistleblower
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 August 2013 20:21 (ten years ago) link
http://preview.reuters.com/2013/8/9/nsa-to-cut-system-administrators-by-90-percent-to― It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Thursday, August 8, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― It is like ganging up on Enya (Trayce), Thursday, August 8, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Still, I'm not sure letting go of 90% of their sysadmins is anywhere close to the right solution. Like I said, it'll be interesting to see what these people will do with their knowledge when they look for work elsewhere.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 9 August 2013 20:24 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/09/lavabit-shutdown-snowden-silicon-valley
One of the most remarkable, and I think enduring, aspects of the NSA stories is how much open defiance there has been of the US government. Numerous countries around the world have waved away threats, from Hong Kong and Russia to multiple Latin American nations. Populations around the world are expressing serious indignation at the NSA and at their own government to the extent they have collaborated. And now Lavabit has shut itself down rather than participate in what it calls "crimes against the American people", and in doing so, has gone to the legal limits in order to tell us all what has happened. There will undoubtedly be more acts inspired by Snowden's initial choice to unravel his own life to make the world aware of what the US government has been doing in the dark.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 9 August 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
the automization of a lot of grunt work was probably happening anyway
― The concept of making the Zuiderzee docile (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Friday, 9 August 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
*automatization*
Very true.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 9 August 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
Obama said he intends to work with Congress on proposals that would add an adversarial voice — effectively one advocating privacy rights — to the secret proceedings before the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Several Democratic senators have proposed such a measure.
I believe there have been documented instances where the White House has said they will "work" with Congress, and that work consists of trying to water down the Congressional proposals.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 9 August 2013 21:08 (ten years ago) link
So, in summary:
- Snowden is not a patriot, yet we will look at changing the law- the US is a free country that welcomes open debate, yet we will charge Snowden and want him behind bars- we will come up with some new bureaucratic level to monitor the NSA
I wish I could come up with some snide remark or cynicism, but I am too damn disappointed in Obama's shenanigans.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 9 August 2013 21:11 (ten years ago) link
it's funny that he even feels the need to do this, it's not like he's going to appease anybody or win any more elections
― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 August 2013 21:15 (ten years ago) link
Must be ego or vanity, I can't think of any other reason.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 9 August 2013 21:46 (ten years ago) link
there's the remote possibility that he is genuinely morally conflicted about his own power. but who knows really.
― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 August 2013 21:47 (ten years ago) link
That's true, but just like other things he is morally conflicted about (wants Gitmo closed, but can't; wanted to radically change the US role and image in the world yet has drone attacks costing innocent lives every week etc etc), he never seems to surpass the helpless posture of someone morally conflicted. It always ends with Obama being morally conflicted, there is never the next step of showing people "I am morally conflicted but I will do something about it".
'Old Europe' (Germany, France, and because I live there, Holland) has been dormant for so long on so many issues. Obama was welcomed as if he was Christ that returned. I, for a big part, applauded his election with equal euphoria. But it is a bitter disappointment. He doesn't seem to 'get' how important all this is in this day and age.
The only thing I wish for is that 'Old Europe', turning its back on Obama right now and being bitterly disappointed in him, will pick this issue up and make it a priority. It's long overdue.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 9 August 2013 21:57 (ten years ago) link
Obama's key line aimed at other countries tonight was this:
"And to others around the world, I want to make clear, once again, that America is not interested in spying on ordinary people."
O RLY? That's it?! That's supposed to make me feel you understand the gravity of this thing?
Could go on and on here, as it really angers me. It is not up to America to determine who is 'ordinary' or not. The problem is not "spying on ordinary people". The problem is the US just being unable to keep their filthy paws out of the candy jar of data. If you are not interested in "ordinary people", then don't hoard their data.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 9 August 2013 22:06 (ten years ago) link
lol 'old europe' sat on its hands and twiddled when genocide was happening on its doorstep within the past twenty years, i wouldn't hold my breath on 'old europe' manning up anytime soon. it's little more than a bank that has a gift shop selling cheeses and assorted post cards of old masters at this point.
― balls, Friday, 9 August 2013 22:25 (ten years ago) link
i wouldn't hold my breath on 'old europe' manning up anytime soon. it's little more than a bank that has a gift shop selling cheeses and assorted post cards of old masters at this point.― balls, Friday, August 9, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― balls, Friday, August 9, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
An indication of part of Europe's disappointment, is this, of course: http://www.telekom.com/media/company/192834
That was just released today. Yes, there is a lot of marketing spin on that, but the very little substance it does have, indicates that Europe will be making it harder for NSA to gain access to other countries's citizens's personal data. Does Germany allow surveillance? Absolutely. But that's not the point.
In the end, American IT jobs will be affected negatively and the whole cloud concept, which originally was a term people in IT wouldn't use because of its connotations, has now gone back some 15 years.
This entire situation aggravates the IT sector in the US and non-American companies will definitely be looking into selling the "NSA-free" model, regardless of how much their respective countries snoop around their personal data.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 9 August 2013 22:44 (ten years ago) link
i think you're overselling some anecdotes. all state power wants is to monopolize power, in "old europe" or elsewhere
― Mordy , Friday, 9 August 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
it's little more than a bank that has a gift shop selling cheeses and assorted post cards of old masters at this point.
oh snaps
― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 9 August 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
i think you're overselling some anecdotes. all state power wants is to monopolize power, in "old europe" or elsewhere― Mordy , Friday, August 9, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Mordy , Friday, August 9, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 9 August 2013 22:57 (ten years ago) link
i don't disagree but tbh i think on this and other civil liberties issues obama's basically got very little to gain from taking a stand on this. most democrats seem closer to the 'this is troubling' side than the 'this is an inexcusable outrage' side, and most conservatives -- even the ones attacking the NSA stuff now -- would be blasting him for being 'weak' et al if he tried to put the brakes on these programs. this isn't to excuse obama but the fault for this state of affairs goes way way way beyond him.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 9 August 2013 23:11 (ten years ago) link
― balls, Saturday, August 10, 2013 12:25 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nice comment and all but how is this any different from what I already said, apart from tone, ffiling it under 'dormant'?
JD otm. But if you are the POTUS, taking a stand once or twice helps. Because he can. Because he's the president. Regardless of gain, at least show some intention. Show good will. This definitely goes beyond Obama, I don't see nor intend to make him the scapegoat here. But he could do a hell of a lot more than he is doing now. And he isn't.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Saturday, 10 August 2013 00:47 (ten years ago) link
ppl imagining he's morally conflicted is already a gain
― zvookster, Saturday, 10 August 2013 01:19 (ten years ago) link
i don't disagree but tbh i think on this and other civil liberties issues obama's basically got very little to gain from taking a stand on this. most democrats seem closer to the 'this is troubling' side than the 'this is an inexcusable outrage' side,
Depends! Dianne Feinstein's defenses align with what we would have called the Dem national security side of the Senate (i.e. Biden, and every other Senate Democrat [like Byrd and Sam Nunn in the ninetieswho would have defended the president]).
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 10 August 2013 01:29 (ten years ago) link
But the truth is that European countries will make it harder for the US to collect data on their users.
Correct. Because those same European countries are rushing to build their own Total Information Awareness systems.
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 10 August 2013 08:23 (ten years ago) link
"I welcome this debate, we just need to put the guy who started it in solitary confinement forever."
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 10 August 2013 17:19 (ten years ago) link
But the truth is that European countries will make it harder for the US to collect data on their users.Correct. Because those same European countries are rushing to build their own Total Information Awareness systems.― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, August 10, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, August 10, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Anyway, today's news: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/08/the-nsa-is-commandeering-the-internet/278572/
I want to hear more about this:
Already companies are taking their data and communications out of the US.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 12 August 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
there's the remote strong possibility that he is ACTUALLY THIS GUY
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 August 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:05 (ten years ago) link
surely the more vain/egotistical option would just be to go "trust me, I got this" and not publically make appeals for limiting his own power...?
― joe schmoladoo from 7-11 (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
that was the last guy's brand
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
before history as much as before the voters which is why he still does this thinkyface stuff
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Monday, 12 August 2013 18:21 (ten years ago) link
http://www.eddysrun.com
― Mordy , Tuesday, 13 August 2013 01:00 (ten years ago) link
via the Fandor film blog:
“How Laura Poitras Helped Snowden Spill His Secrets” is the straight-forward title of Peter Maass‘s cover story for this Sunday’s New York Times Magazine. It is, of course, an utterly riveting read, supplemented by Maass’s encrypted question-and-answer session with Snowden himself. Snowden: “We came to a point in the verification and vetting process where I discovered Laura was more suspicious of me than I was of her, and I’m famously paranoid.” And Guardian reporter Glenn Greenwald recalls that when he met Poitras, “She insisted that I not take my cellphone, because of this ability the government has to remotely listen to cellphones even when they are turned off.”
You’ve likely heard that Laura Poitras has her reasons for being cautious. With each successive film—My Country, My Country, nominated for an Oscar in 2006, The Oath (2010), winner of several awards (Sundance, Peabody, MacArthur), and now the one on surveillance which she began in 2011—Poitras has been detained at airports with increasing frequency. One “security guy” told her, “You have a threat score that is off the Richter scale. You are at 400 out of 400.” In short, she’s come a long way from the San Francisco Art Institute and those classes with Ernie Gehr.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/laura-poitras-snowden.html
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 14:28 (ten years ago) link
One “security guy” told her, “You have a threat score that is off the Richter scale. You are at 400 out of 400.”
this strikes me as kind of
something
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 14:31 (ten years ago) link
being an Oscar nominee who's making a feature doc abt surveillance racks up pts i guess
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 14:43 (ten years ago) link
Once she began working on her surveillance film in 2011, she raised her digital security to an even higher level. She cut down her use of a cellphone, which betrays not only who you are calling and when, but your location at any given point in time. She was careful about e-mailing sensitive documents or having sensitive conversations on the phone. She began using software that masked the Web sites she visited. After she was contacted by Snowden in 2013, she tightened her security yet another notch. In addition to encrypting any sensitive e-mails, she began using different computers for editing film, for communicating and for reading sensitive documents (the one for sensitive documents is air-gapped, meaning it has never been connected to the Internet).
These precautions might seem paranoid — Poitras describes them as “pretty extreme” — but the people she has interviewed for her film were targets of the sort of surveillance and seizure that she fears. William Binney, a former top N.S.A. official who publicly accused the agency of illegal surveillance, was at home one morning in 2007 when F.B.I. agents burst in and aimed their weapons at his wife, his son and himself. Binney was, at the moment the agent entered his bathroom and pointed a gun at his head, naked in the shower. His computers, disks and personal records were confiscated and have not yet been returned. Binney has not been charged with any crime.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 15:04 (ten years ago) link
“I’m not stopping what I’m doing, but I have left the country. I literally didn’t feel like I could protect my material in the United States, and this was before I was contacted by Snowden. If you promise someone you’re going to protect them as a source and you know the government is monitoring you or seizing your laptop, you can’t actually physically do it.”
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 15:27 (ten years ago) link
lol @ http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/12/irony_alert_pentagon_now_fears_a_big_data_national_security_threat
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 16:48 (ten years ago) link
Have any of you actually read the entire Poitras piece? I'm not done with it yet, but here is a Q&A with Snowden conducted by Peter Maass: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/snowden-maass-transcript.html
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
i did. slow day at the office.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
For Americans who want to speak out against the NSA: http://nowaynsa.com
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
NSA copying emails directed to or originating from the US and Fourth Amendment stuff: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/11/nsa-internet-surveillance-email
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 17:16 (ten years ago) link
http://news.yahoo.com/-dni-clapper-won%E2%80%99t-control-spying-review--white-house--194607489.html
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/obamas-reform-panel-to-be-led-by-clapper-who-denied-spying-to-congress/
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 13 August 2013 21:21 (ten years ago) link
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:04 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I did too, though it was a fast day at the office (I was procrastinating). An amazing piece tbh.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 21:32 (ten years ago) link
clapper panel finds clapper guilty of loving america too much
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 13 August 2013 23:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/encryption-is-less-secure-than-we-thought-0814.html
In this case, rather than prior knowledge about the statistical frequency of the symbols used in a password, the attacker has prior knowledge about the probable noise characteristics of the environment: Phase noise with one set of parameters is more probable than phase noise with another set of parameters, which in turn is more probable than Brownian noise, and so on. Armed with these statistics, an attacker could infer the password stored on the card much more rapidly than was previously thought.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 16:39 (ten years ago) link
That is cool
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 20:43 (ten years ago) link
Worrying presentation at Black Hat this year: http://breachattack.com
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 21:36 (ten years ago) link
https://twitter.com/WikileaksTruck/status/367760668117565440/photo/1
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 21:45 (ten years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRqMYRICAAAr2gj.jpg
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 21:46 (ten years ago) link
^^^ manning, just now
manningsplain
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Wednesday, 14 August 2013 22:08 (ten years ago) link
sad, moving, hard to fully trust
― R'LIAH (goole), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 22:11 (ten years ago) link
the outpouring of grief from supporters on twitter when he said "i am sorry my actions hurt the united states" was overwhelming
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 23:55 (ten years ago) link
the people who've called him hero didn't expect remorse, i guess
but, shit
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 14 August 2013 23:57 (ten years ago) link
poor kid
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 15 August 2013 01:06 (ten years ago) link
well, torture works sometimes
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 15 August 2013 01:10 (ten years ago) link
yeah, friend was just saying 'what, you don't think they would have broken you too?'
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 15 August 2013 01:20 (ten years ago) link
Morbs most likely otm. And if not, given the situation and what he is facing I can't blame him for saying sorry. If it takes 10-20 years off the sentence, what the hell does any of it matter anyway?
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 15 August 2013 01:23 (ten years ago) link
galileo did the same iirc
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 15 August 2013 04:20 (ten years ago) link
http://www.chronicle.su/news/dog-the-bounty-hunter-to-pursue-snowden-bounty/
― blinded by aggro (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 15 August 2013 07:10 (ten years ago) link
And if it isn't obvious now... Gmail promises “no reasonable expectation” of privacy
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 15 August 2013 08:04 (ten years ago) link
this is going around this morning
Unfortunately for outrage junkies, there's just nothing here. First of all, Google's argument isn't even about Gmail users, who are covered by Google's unified privacy policy. Google's argument is about non-Gmail users who haven't signed Google's terms of service. It's right there in black and white — the heading for the section literally starts with the words "The Non-Gmail Plaintiffs."From there, Google's argument starts broadly and moves towards the specific — that's where the "a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties" line comes in. That's a quote from the 1979 Supreme Court case Smith v. Maryland, in which the court upheld what's called the "third-party doctrine," saying that once you involve a third party in communication, you lose legally enforceable privacy rights. (This is an extremely controversial notion, but for right now, it's the law.) Google's argument is that people who email Gmail users are necessarily involving Gmail's servers in the mix, kicking the third-party doctrine into effect. This is pretty basic stuff.Then, in the very next paragraph, Google points out that email processing is a basic part of email itself, with citations to several state court decisions. As numerous courts have held, the automated processing of email is so widely understood and accepted that the act of sending an email constitutes implied consent to automated processing as a matter of law.And then, two paragraphs after the Smith v. Maryland quote, Google's lawyers spell out their exact argument in utterly simple terms: Non-Gmail users who send emails to Gmail recipients must expect that their emails will be subjected to Google's normal processes as the email provider for their intended recipients.Non-Gmail users. These words appear roughly 300 words after the Smith v. Maryland quote that's causing all the fuss, but it appears no one read that far.
From there, Google's argument starts broadly and moves towards the specific — that's where the "a person has no legitimate expectation of privacy in information he voluntarily turns over to third parties" line comes in. That's a quote from the 1979 Supreme Court case Smith v. Maryland, in which the court upheld what's called the "third-party doctrine," saying that once you involve a third party in communication, you lose legally enforceable privacy rights. (This is an extremely controversial notion, but for right now, it's the law.) Google's argument is that people who email Gmail users are necessarily involving Gmail's servers in the mix, kicking the third-party doctrine into effect. This is pretty basic stuff.
Then, in the very next paragraph, Google points out that email processing is a basic part of email itself, with citations to several state court decisions.
As numerous courts have held, the automated processing of email is so widely understood and accepted that the act of sending an email constitutes implied consent to automated processing as a matter of law.
And then, two paragraphs after the Smith v. Maryland quote, Google's lawyers spell out their exact argument in utterly simple terms:
Non-Gmail users who send emails to Gmail recipients must expect that their emails will be subjected to Google's normal processes as the email provider for their intended recipients.
Non-Gmail users. These words appear roughly 300 words after the Smith v. Maryland quote that's causing all the fuss, but it appears no one read that far.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/14/4621474/yes-gmail-users-have-an-expectation-of-privacy
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 15 August 2013 13:25 (ten years ago) link
The White House ✔ @whitehouse
Bo, stop trying to make fetch happen. pic.twitter.com/Ez6hWGFpFc
Milo P @milo_price
.@whitehouse ha ha ha so cute!! i feel bad about getting so wound up about the whole nsa thing now 3:42 PM - 13 Aug 2013
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 15 August 2013 13:30 (ten years ago) link
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 15 August 2013 13:38 (ten years ago) link
young manning
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRt6wK2CYAAVqNh.jpg
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 15 August 2013 15:00 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-broke-privacy-rules-thousands-of-times-per-year-audit-finds/2013/08/15/3310e554-05ca-11e3-a07f-49ddc7417125_story.html?hpid=z1
Nothing to worry about here, that White House & NSA approved panel will fix everything
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 August 2013 13:46 (ten years ago) link
In one instance, the NSA decided that it need not report the unintended surveillance of Americans. A notable example in 2008 was the interception of a “large number” of calls placed from Washington when a programming error confused the U.S. area code 202 for 20, the international dialing code for Egypt, according to a “quality assurance” review that was not distributed to the NSA’s oversight staff.
Oops.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 August 2013 13:57 (ten years ago) link
that part blows my mind
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 16 August 2013 14:06 (ten years ago) link
in their defense, that is super dumb and embarrassing and i wouldn't want to tell anyone about it either
― 1staethyr, Friday, 16 August 2013 14:30 (ten years ago) link
http://arching.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/abnormal.png
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 August 2013 14:45 (ten years ago) link
Revealed: Photo of WikiLeaks source Pfc. Bradley Manning dressed as a woman released — as he claims gender ID disorder put pressure on him
The army released this photo after the court ruling. Disgusting. I mean.. why?
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 16 August 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
x-post re NSA:
So, if we're talking largely about mistakes, what's the basis for the controversy? A few things, actually.
First, the public was told that these violations weren't occurring. The incidents may have been mostly inadvertent, but they were more common than we thought.
Second, the sheer number of the occurrences is striking. The NSA audit obtained by Gellman counted 2,776 incidents, most of which were unintended, over a one-year period, of "unauthorized collection, storage, access to or distribution of legally protected communications." The ACLU's Jameel Jaffer said the raw total was "jaw-dropping."
http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/16/20050583-every-now-and-then-there-may-be-a-mistake
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 August 2013 15:06 (ten years ago) link
Very nice piece by Charlie Stross: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2013/08/snowden-leaks-the-real-take-ho.html
We human beings are primates. We have a deeply ingrained set of cultural and interpersonal behavioural rules which we violate only at social cost. One of these rules, essential for a tribal organism, is bilaterality: loyalty is a two-way street. (Another is hierarchicality: yield to the boss.) Such rules are not iron-bound or immutable — we're not robots — but our new hive superorganism employers don't obey them instinctively, and apes and monkeys and hominids tend to revert to tit for tat quite easily when unsure of their relative status. Perceived slights result in retaliation, and blundering, human-blind organizations can slight or bruise an employee's ego without even noticing. And slighted or bruised employees who lack instinctive loyalty because the culture they come from has spent generations systematically destroying social hierarchies and undermining their sense of belonging are much more likely to start thinking the unthinkable.Edward Snowden is 30: he was born in 1983. Generation Y started in 1980-82. I think he's a sign of things to come.PS: Bradley Manning is 25.
Edward Snowden is 30: he was born in 1983. Generation Y started in 1980-82. I think he's a sign of things to come.
PS: Bradley Manning is 25.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 16 August 2013 17:03 (ten years ago) link
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/13/20008036-lavabitcom-owner-i-could-be-arrested-for-resisting-surveillance-order
"Because the government has barred Lavabit from disclosing the nature of its demands, we still don't know what information the government is seeking, or why it's seeking it," said Ben Wizner, a national security lawyer for the ACLU. "It's hard to have a debate about the reasonableness of the government's actions — or Lavabit's response, for that matter — when we don't know what we're debating."[...]Levison said he has been "threatened with arrest multiple times over the past six weeks," but that he was making a stand on principle: "I think it's important to point out that what prompted me to shut down my service wasn't access to one person's data. It was about protecting the privacy of all my users."
[...]
Levison said he has been "threatened with arrest multiple times over the past six weeks," but that he was making a stand on principle: "I think it's important to point out that what prompted me to shut down my service wasn't access to one person's data. It was about protecting the privacy of all my users."
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 16 August 2013 17:14 (ten years ago) link
that is some early branding for generation y.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Friday, 16 August 2013 17:45 (ten years ago) link
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130815/17545424195/aclu-coordinating-ed-snowdens-defense.shtml
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 August 2013 18:03 (ten years ago) link
What did the Prez and Feinstein know about the privacy audit and when did they know it? Maybe nothing till today...
He might not have known about the extent of the NSA’s privacy problems until this week.
It’s not as far-fetched as it sounds. We know that Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.), the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, only learned about the NSA privacy audit when The Washington Post asked her staff about it. And the chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has admitted that the court has limited ability to police NSA misconduct.
Moreover, an internal NSA document Edward Snowden provided to The Washington Post advises NSA analysts that “while we do want to provide our FAA overseers with the information they need, we DO NOT want to give them any extraneous information.” The “overseers” are the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Justice. The NSA may not have been giving the full story to the attorney general and the director of national intelligence. And they, in turn, might have had reasons to keep some details about the extent of NSA abuses to themselves.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/16/did-president-obama-know-about-the-nsas-privacy-problems/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 16 August 2013 21:35 (ten years ago) link
http://archive.is/KtnuJ
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, 18 August 2013 16:59 (ten years ago) link
That demands a firing
― YOU FOOLS PAY OVER $2.50 for a comic book (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:49 (ten years ago) link
nice ominous end to that one.
― wmlynch, Sunday, 18 August 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
to that post, not the detention.
How crazy is it though? Is this a prime example of the UK being a lapdog of the US? It's inexcusable.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:20 (ten years ago) link
I thought it was already obvious. The US does the same thing in Canada. Shame on our governments.
Everyone should be outraged by this. That ominous tone is obviously necessary.
Speaking in terms of 'mafia', 'fascism' and 'police state'/'Staatspolizei' are obviously what it is going to take.
I am reminded of what John Stuart Mill said about the unfortunate fact of taking on a radical viewpoint in order to have even a small or noticeable effect in society.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Sunday, 18 August 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
Wiki on the 5iv3 3y35: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 01:29 (ten years ago) link
You in cryptography c21m5on?
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 19 August 2013 02:08 (ten years ago) link
It took Greenwald's partner's arrest for Sully to awaken:
In this respect, I can say this to David Cameron. Thank you for clearing the air on these matters of surveillance. You have now demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that these anti-terror provisions are capable of rank abuse. Unless some other facts emerge, there is really no difference in kind between you and Vladimir Putin. You have used police powers granted for anti-terrorism and deployed them to target and intimidate journalists deemed enemies of the state.
You have proven that these laws can be hideously abused. Which means they must be repealed. You have broken the trust that enables any such legislation to survive in a democracy. By so doing, you have attacked British democracy itself. What on earth do you have to say for yourself? And were you, in any way, encouraged by the US administration to do such a thing?
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 19 August 2013 02:37 (ten years ago) link
You in cryptography c21m5on?― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, August 18, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, August 18, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
You?
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 03:49 (ten years ago) link
No. In photonics so don't know anything much about crypto but have sat through some interesting talks, particularly on rng stuff. So I guess I have an interest as well.
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 19 August 2013 03:57 (ten years ago) link
The combo of your dn and presence on this thread made me suspect it was your field.
― touch. zing touch. you've almost convinced me I'm real (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 19 August 2013 03:59 (ten years ago) link
I'm in web development and self-taught myself CS concepts.
I'm actually planning on getting another degree, but this time in CS.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 04:31 (ten years ago) link
Photonics looks so interesting. What type of work do you do on that? Like fiber optics stuff?
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 04:34 (ten years ago) link
I half expected the article at the BBC to be all "man loses couple of hours and some of his stuff at airport, acts like it's a big deal or something" about this, but it isn't - http://bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23750289 - it's on the mobile news front page, even.
― StanM, Monday, 19 August 2013 04:53 (ten years ago) link
I believe it is the second time the UK does something like this to a Brazilian citizen.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 05:33 (ten years ago) link
Greenwald says he’s going “to write much more aggressively than before, I’m going to publish many more documents than before.”
He added: “I’m going to publish many more things about England, as well. I have many documents about the system of espionage of England, and now my focus will be there, too. “
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/partner-of-journalist-at-center-of-nsa-leak-detained-for-about-9-hours-at-heathrow-airport/2013/08/18/b1d81ea4-086b-11e3-89fe-abb4a5067014_story.html
― curmudgeon, Monday, 19 August 2013 14:11 (ten years ago) link
the terrorism act has been used to intimidate evident nonterrorists for years, maybe that bampot sullivan has been out of the country too long to notice
― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:15 (ten years ago) link
anyway it's nice that some mnstrm people give a shit about this latest disgrace, but it's still only epiphenomenal to the enduring national disgrace that is the uk's fealty to the american security state, which isn't going to change anytime soon
― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:17 (ten years ago) link
UK backchannels to US: "Damn it, you said there weren't any hornets in that nest!"
― cops on horse (WilliamC), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:21 (ten years ago) link
The current UK Home Secretary is not just an oxygen thief, she's a toadying, sack-of-shit oxygen thief.
― aldi young dudes (suzy), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:24 (ten years ago) link
current
― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:25 (ten years ago) link
may is a worthless piece of shit but so were blunkett, reid etc
― No results found for "churl sweatshirt" (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Monday, 19 August 2013 14:26 (ten years ago) link
Juan Cole on how to turn a democracy into a STASI authoritarian state in 10 easy steps:
http://www.juancole.com/2013/08/greenwald-terrorist-dictatorship.html
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 August 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-interview-detention-heathrow
"It is clear why those took me. It's because I'm Glenn's partner. Because I went to Berlin. Because Laura lives there. So they think I have a big connection," he said. "But I don't have a role. I don't look at documents. I don't even know if it was documents that I was carrying. It could have been for the movie that Laura is working on."
The White House on Monday insisted that it was not involved in the decision to detain Miranda, though a spokesman said US officials had been given a "heads up" by British officials beforehand.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 21:59 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters
The mood toughened just over a month ago, when I received a phone call from the centre of government telling me: "You've had your fun. Now we want the stuff back." There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more."
― c21m50nh3x460n, Monday, 19 August 2013 23:37 (ten years ago) link
so we can credit Miranda now for not being used, perhaps, in the absence of evidence that he's a stooge
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 05:48 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/19/obama-administration-asks-supreme-court-to-allow-warrantless-cellphone-searches/?tid=pm_business_pop
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 12:49 (ten years ago) link
In which Jeffrey Toobin loses his mind.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:33 (ten years ago) link
an embedded maroon
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
seriously, that fuckin guy
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:46 (ten years ago) link
And it is simply grotesque that Snowden compares these thousands of government workers—all doing their jobs to protect the United States—to the Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg.
It took an extra 12 years after it was announced, but irony is finally really dead.
― Domo Arigato, Demi Lovato (Phil D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:54 (ten years ago) link
dzhozef tsnowaev
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:56 (ten years ago) link
srsly i
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
does it seem likely that russia and china didn't know any of this stuff? given the scale of the program and the number of people involved, that they have been taken aback by what he has released?
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
or that the rest of the information he has would be some incredible treasure trove
― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:02 (ten years ago) link
groklaw dude freaks out, leaves Internet http://goo.gl/HGCvf9
Hilarious that he goes on and on about privacy and then endorses trusting your email encryption to a third party. GPG exists, dude.
― eris bueller (lukas), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:29 (ten years ago) link
*she, sorry
― eris bueller (lukas), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 15:35 (ten years ago) link
PJ's heart is in the right place, but she really needs to explore her options. It's understandable that GPG is, from a practical standpoint, too 'complex' for the regular Joe, but she could do her part in helping spread the word about it.
Because, unfortunately, if only PJ uses GPG it won't make enough of a difference. Her users/those who email her need to use GPG and at the moment the average user would not take the time to learn how to set it up.
Kolab is also a bad option. Switzerland's gov't logs emails, as well, and is probably worse than the US.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:28 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/nsa-snowden-files-drives-destroyed-london?CMP=twt_gu
slightly less febrile than yesterday's rusbidger piece
― caek, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:43 (ten years ago) link
It’s true, too, that while the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court is largely toothless, it has, on occasion, rejected some N.S.A. procedures, and the agency has made adjustments in response. That is not the act of an entirely lawless agency.
"not entirely lawless": the NSA's new motto
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:56 (ten years ago) link
However, in a subsequent meeting, an intelligence agency expert argued that the material was still vulnerable. He said by way of example that if there was a plastic cup in the room where the work was being carried out, foreign agents could train a laser on it to pick up the vibrations of what was being said. Vibrations on windows could similarly be monitored remotely by laser.
man spy shit is cool
― I tweeted too much and I am in jail. (crüt), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 17:58 (ten years ago) link
OMG! Ban windows!
― StanM, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:01 (ten years ago) link
Mac only
― dmr, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:07 (ten years ago) link
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/
When we all heard he had been arrested, we all thought “That’s a disgrace, why should someone be arrested simply because his partner works for The Guardian?” But that goes the other way as well. Why should David Miranda be allowed to happily saunter around carrying Britain’s most sensitive secrets simply because Glenn Greenwald is his spouse? Are we seriously saying the phrase “I’m with Greenwald” should now act as an international get-out-of-jail-free card?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:14 (ten years ago) link
seriously fuck toobin. what is his problem?
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:14 (ten years ago) link
Should we tolerate a dipshit Telegraph blogger who's only notable because Glenda Jackson is his mum? xp
― aldi young dudes (suzy), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
― k3vin k., Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:14 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
his "morality is built on the letter of law" logic is p common among lawyers i've known that don't think that hard.
i thought toobin was a guy that thought hard. now i'm not so sure.
― BIG HOOS aka the denigrated boogeyman (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
<I> if there was a plastic cup in the room where the work was being carried out, foreign agents could train a laser on it to pick up the vibrations of what was being said. Vibrations on windows could similarly be monitored remotely by laser.</i>
Most incredibly, this technology is almost 100 years old: Lev Sergeyvich Termen was doing it for Russia circa 1930, using microwaves.
― sean gramophone, Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:33 (ten years ago) link
yeah i've liked toobin's reporting but have always kept my distance from him - i remember a profile he wrote on clarence thomas a few years ago, which was fine in its analysis of its subject's style and influence, but was strangely averse to picking a side. now that he's picking sides...
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:42 (ten years ago) link
As part of his SCOTUS book, it's clear from the Slobbo chapter what side Toobin's on.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 18:47 (ten years ago) link
i read toobin's book on the 2000 election a long time ago, remember it being pretty good. i've usually enjoyed his NY stuff, so it's sad to see him decline so drastically.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 19:32 (ten years ago) link
I lol'ed
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7749458432/hE1B9A136/
― Domo Arigato, Demi Lovato (Phil D.), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 19:52 (ten years ago) link
yeah i've liked toobin's reporting but have always kept my distance from him - i remember a profile he wrote on clarence thomas a few years ago, which was fine in its analysis of its subject's style and influence, but was strangely averse to picking a side. now that he's picking sides...― k3vin k., Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― k3vin k., Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:42 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and he has chosen the side all his friends are on and that pays him a shitload of money. dude is totally gonna back the status quo.
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Tuesday, 20 August 2013 20:24 (ten years ago) link
Was PJ also saying that it's all well saying "use PGP" but the NSA are keeping things for as long as they need in the hopes of one day breaking them, so that's still no reassurance to her?
I was surprised at her reaction, but I can see her point, and I don't think it's just over-reaction.
― stet, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 00:13 (ten years ago) link
technically-minded folks who are looking for alternatives to cloud services right now may be interested in this: https://github.com/al3x/sovereign
― i too went to college (silby), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:04 (ten years ago) link
I would like that, but that is indeed very "technically minded"..
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:09 (ten years ago) link
Was PJ also saying that it's all well saying "use PGP" but the NSA are keeping things for as long as they need in the hopes of one day breaking them, so that's still no reassurance to her?I was surprised at her reaction, but I can see her point, and I don't think it's just over-reaction.― stet, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― stet, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:25 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/nsa-david-miranda-guardian-hard-drives
Alan Rusbridger, the Guardian editor, said that two GCHQ security experts oversaw the destruction of hard drives on 20 July in what he described as a "peculiarly pointless piece of symbolism". Rusbridger had told the authorities that the action would not prevent the Guardian reporting on the leaked US documents because Glenn Greenwald, the reporter who first broke the story, had a copy in Brazil, and a further copy was held in the US.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 01:53 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/21/us/roberts-varies-pattern-in-choice-for-spy-court.html?_r=0
sounds like a good democrat
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 21 August 2013 03:37 (ten years ago) link
"centrist"
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 12:24 (ten years ago) link
Jeffrey Toobin gives us some more:
CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin on Tuesday strongly defended the British government's nearly nine-hour detention of David Miranda, the partner of The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald.
Toobin argued on CNN's "AC360" that British authorities were "justified" in the detention.
"Let's be clear about what Mr. Miranda's role was here. I don't want to be unkind, but he was a mule. He was given something, he didn't know what it was, from one person to pass to another at the other end of the airport. Our prisons are full of drug mules. Glenn's view is, as long as one of the two people at either end of that transaction was a journalist he can take anything he wants."
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 13:32 (ten years ago) link
Pretty sure detaining suspected drug mules under anti-terrorist legislation would struggle to pass muster with most 'legal analysts'.
― Inte Regina Lund eller nån, mitt namn är (ShariVari), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 13:39 (ten years ago) link
maybe not this one
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/08/20/jeffrey-toobin-preaches-on-sanctity-of-government-secrets-despite-once-stealing-classified-documents/
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 21 August 2013 13:40 (ten years ago) link
Damn. I didn't know Toobin had worked with Lawrence Walsh.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 13:43 (ten years ago) link
from the comments. Note the commenter:
Jane Hamsher August 21st, 2013 at 12:19 am7In response to DSWright @ 4He has done a weird about-face. The last time I was in NY Glenn and I had lunch with him. He seemed very interested at the time about HB Gary and nefarious things the government was doing against Wikileaks. Maybe he was being disingenuous, or his position was nuanced in a way I didn’t understand. But his tone and perspective about government surveillance seemed radically different than they are now.
35 years in jail for Manning
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:19 (ten years ago) link
optimistic speculation he could get paroled after serving 1/3rd of that
to be honest it's much better than i expected, even if the idea of spending longer in jail than i have literally been on earth is totally unfathomable to me
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
Yes, it's 'better', but I'm already sick of hearing everyone on twitter saying WOW it's ONLY 35 years! LUCKY BRAD! It's still criminaly long, an atrocity.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:42 (ten years ago) link
it's just also worth keeping in mind that half an hour ago i was expecting them to say something like 75 years
Oh definitely, I'm glad it's 35 instead of 75. I still have trouble fathoming what it must be like to be in his shoes right now.
― In the airplane over the .CSS (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 14:44 (ten years ago) link
Obviously this below is tiny compared to Manning, but worth reading to see how even whistleblowers who follow the rules re issues without such national security importance get treated. The article is even written by inside the beltway centrist elist Milbank
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-the-price-gina-gray-paid-for-whistleblowing/2013/08/20/9fe80c98-09cb-11e3-8974-f97ab3b3c677_story.html
She was the Army civilian worker who, before and after her employment, exposed much of the wrongdoing at Arlington National Cemetery — misplaced graves, mishandled remains and financial mismanagement — and she attempted to do it through the proper internal channels. Pentagon sources have confirmed to me her crucial role in bringing the scandal to light.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:07 (ten years ago) link
Gray, who worked in Iraq as an Army contractor and Army public affairs specialist, is now unemployed and living in North Carolina.
....Snowden’s case is quite a bit different, and murkier; his dalliances with China and now Russia raise questions about his motives. But Gray’s case shows that Snowden was correct about one thing: Trying to pursue the proper internal channels doesn’t work.
If the Obama administration wants whistleblowers to take the “proper” route, it needs to protect them when they do.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
Obviously this below is tiny compared to Manning, but worth reading to see how even whistleblowers who follow the rules re issues without such national security importance get treated.
Untrue. Jeffrey Toobin said it isn't so.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:30 (ten years ago) link
Sadly, the Toobin view is shared by many, I think. Most are unaware of how the Obama administration treats whistleblowers, and some even when aware are still not sympathetic. Most people don't know about whistleblower Thomas Drake who had all the charges but 1 dropped against him, but could not get his security clearance back and is now working in a mall Apple store.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
But you know that.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:42 (ten years ago) link
― stet, Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:13 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah fair enough. It's tempting to go all spy games with encryption and Tor, but even if it's hypothetically possible for someone really savvy to hide their trail, it doesn't change the fact that we increasingly live in a police state.
― eris bueller (lukas), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:53 (ten years ago) link
via Greenwald, the WSJ shows how the NSA lurks on ILX:
http://graphicsweb.wsj.com/documents/PhotoAnnotations0113/index.php?slugName=NSA0820
http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/317971-nsa-surveillance-said-to-be-broader-than-initially-believed#ixzz2cZNG7EAZ
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 15:54 (ten years ago) link
ACLU: "When a soldier who shared information with the press and public is punished far more harshly than others who tortured prisoners and killed civilians, something is seriously wrong with our justice system."
Amnesty International: President O should commute Manning's sentence to time already served.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
waterface is a spy imo
― Coming Out Of Elton John's Mouth (crüt), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2013/08/mannings-sentence-mirandas-detention.html
at least the NYer has davidson
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 21 August 2013 17:35 (ten years ago) link
http://getprsm.com/
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 18:11 (ten years ago) link
@ggreenwald It's strange that a media outlet would employ someone who sees investigative journalism as the equivalent of drug trafficking #DrugMule
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
The National Security Agency unlawfully gathered as many as tens of thousands of e-mails and other electronic communications between Americans as part of a now-discontinued collection program, according to a 2011 secret court opinion.
The 86-page opinion, which was declassified by U.S. intelligence officials Wednesday, explains why the chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court ruled the collection method unconstitutional. The judge, John D. Bates, found that the government had “advised the court that the volume and nature of the information it has been collecting is fundamentally different from what the court had been led to believe.”
...In addition to the October 2011 court ruling, which was heavily redacted, U.S. intelligence officials on Wednesday released other documents, including a follow-up order about the NSA’s revised collection methods.
The documents were released in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-gathered-thousands-of-americans-e-mails-before-court-struck-down-program/2013/08/21/146ba4b6-0a90-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html
(btw my targeted banner ad at the top of that page is BE PROUD -- JOIN THE NYPD)
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
tens of thousands of emails = one person's spam folder?
― crüt, Wednesday, 21 August 2013 20:25 (ten years ago) link
― k3vin k., Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:35 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm: And against thirty-five years, a hundred and twelve days seems like a paltry penalty for Manning’s extreme solitary confinement and his abuse. Where is the deterrent for that?
― szarkasm (schlump), Wednesday, 21 August 2013 20:27 (ten years ago) link
Man I'm shocked Charlie Savage isn't dead yet for reporting this shit:
A federal judge sharply rebuked the National Security Agency in 2011 for gathering and storing tens of thousands of Americans’ e-mails each year as it hunted for terrorists and other legitimate foreign targets, according to the top secret court ruling, which was made public on Wednesday.
The 85-page ruling by Judge John D. Bates, then serving on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, involved an N.S.A. program that searches Americans’ international Internet communications for discussion of foreigners under surveillance. Judge Bates found that the agency had violated the Constitution for several years and declared the problems part of a pattern of “misrepresentation” by agency officials in submissions to the secret court.
The release of the ruling, under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, was the latest effort by the Obama administration to contain revelations about N.S.A. surveillance prompted by leaks by the former agency contractor Edward J. Snowden.
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 August 2013 01:32 (ten years ago) link
Free Chelsea
Bradley Manning is now Chelsea Manning“As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me,” Manning said in a statement read during an exclusive TODAY show interview with lawyer David Coombs. “I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way I have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible.”While Fort Leavenworth, the prison where Manning will serve her sentence, does not offer hormone therapy, Coombs told host Savannah Guthrie he would fight to ensure his client received the medical treatment she needed. He also said he and Manning had not discussed sex reassignment surgery, and that getting her access to the needed hormones is his priority at this time.Asked why Chelsea Manning had not made a statement about her gender before the trial was over, Coombs said, “She didn’t want this to be something that overshadowed the case.”
“As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me,” Manning said in a statement read during an exclusive TODAY show interview with lawyer David Coombs. “I am Chelsea Manning. I am a female. Given the way I have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible.”
While Fort Leavenworth, the prison where Manning will serve her sentence, does not offer hormone therapy, Coombs told host Savannah Guthrie he would fight to ensure his client received the medical treatment she needed. He also said he and Manning had not discussed sex reassignment surgery, and that getting her access to the needed hormones is his priority at this time.
Asked why Chelsea Manning had not made a statement about her gender before the trial was over, Coombs said, “She didn’t want this to be something that overshadowed the case.”
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/22/i-am-chelsea-manning-to-live-as-a-woman/
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 22 August 2013 13:37 (ten years ago) link
coombs switches pronouns after reading the announcement, which got me kind of emotional
― there are more than 3.5 HOOS per steen (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 22 August 2013 13:39 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/federal-court-curbs-appeal-rights-for-sensitive-defense-jobs/2013/08/21/8a4e518c-0a78-11e3-b87c-476db8ac34cd_story.html
The 7-3 decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit prohibits the Merit Systems Protection Board (MSPB) from hearing cases involving “non-critical sensitive” workers, a ruling that alarms labor groups and whistleblower advocates who say it strips away civil due process for employees.
...
In the dissent, Judge Timothy Dyk wrote that the ruling would “effectively deny MSPB review for hundreds of thousands of federal employees — a number that is likely to increase as more positions are designated as non-critical sensitive.”
Special Counsel Carolyn Lerner, head of the agency that handles federal whistleblower claims, concurred.
“This decision poses a significant threat to whistleblower protections for hundreds of thousands of federal employees in sensitive positions and may chill civil servants from blowing the whistle,” she said.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 August 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
hey while we're calling out music writers for saying dumb shit on twitter
https://twitter.com/burn_amb/status/370530640049238016
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 15:21 (ten years ago) link
i'd burn my copies of burning ambulance if i'd ever boughtone
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 August 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBj_uN7j1MQ
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Thursday, 22 August 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
http://holdenweb.blogspot.com/2013/08/bradley-mannings-post-sentencing.html
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 22 August 2013 16:25 (ten years ago) link
@DennisThePerrin "Ewww! Mom! Dad! Now I have a terrorist name!" -- Chelsea Clinton
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 August 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
chelsea clinton is 33 years old
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link
same age as Jesus
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 August 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
woke up it was a chelsea manning
― Mordy , Thursday, 22 August 2013 18:23 (ten years ago) link
I christen thee n/p for 'no point'
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
the point is it's a terrible joke, bc why would a 33-year-old woman say "Ewww! Mom! Dad!"? also why would chelsea clinton care if she has a terrorist name? it's one of those things that looks like a joke but there's not really a joke other than that there are two people named chelsea
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 19:42 (ten years ago) link
btw i still have no idea who dennis perrin is or why you think people should care what he says about stuff
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 19:44 (ten years ago) link
"Ewww! Mom! Dad! Now my band has a terrorist name!" -- Thurston Moore of Chelsea Light Moving
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 19:56 (ten years ago) link
The joke is her dad was a fucking terrorist, and she'll be a legacy politician like Mom.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:00 (ten years ago) link
you know what's fucking stupid? that. on every level. come on, you're capable of much better.
― maven maven (Matt P), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:02 (ten years ago) link
honestly not sure who you're talking to there
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:03 (ten years ago) link
dr morbius
― maven maven (Matt P), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:03 (ten years ago) link
cool. i am not capable of much better than this.
― congratulations (n/a), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:04 (ten years ago) link
it's funny cuz the Clintons are all cunts. Get it now?
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:10 (ten years ago) link
charming
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:19 (ten years ago) link
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:00 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink is it?
― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
oh I get it
― crüt, Thursday, 22 August 2013 20:31 (ten years ago) link
Thing is, with added encryption, I don't think the NSA can crack RSA yet. *knock on wood*
Lots of talk at the BlackHat conference this year about how RSA is going to fall sooner rather than later. Also, you should be using at least 2048 bit keys for everything.
The encryption systems used to secure online bank accounts and keep critical communications private could be undone in just a few years, security researchers warned at the Black Hat conference in Las Vegas yesterday. Breakthroughs in math research made in the past six months could underpin practical, fast ways to decode encrypted data that’s considered unbreakable today.Alex Stamos, chief technology officer of the online security company Artemis, led a presentation describing how he and three other security researchers studied recent publications from the insular world of academic cryptopgraphy research, which covers trends in attacking common encryption schemes.“Our conclusion is there is a small but definite chance that RSA and classic Diffie-Hellman will not be usable for encryption purposes in four to five years,” said Stamos, referring to the two most commonly used encryption methods.Any hints that those methods could be undermined must be taken seriously, said Stamos. They are used to protect banking, online commerce, and e-mail, as well as the mechanisms that ensure that updates downloaded by operating systems such as Windows and OSX are genuine. The result of the two encryption methods being broken would be, said Stamos, “a total failure of trust on the Internet.”RSA and Diffie-Hellman encryption are both underpinned by a mathematical challenge known as the discrete logarithm problem. That problem is computationally difficult to solve, ensuring that encrypted data can only be decoded quickly with knowledge of the secret key used to encode it in the first place. Breaking RSA or Diffie-Hellman encryption today requires using vast computing resources for significant periods of time.However, it is possible that algorithms able to solve the discrete logarithm problem quickly could exist. “We rely on that efficient algorithm not being found,” said Jarved Samuel, a cryptographer who works for security consultancy ISEC Partners and presented alongside Stamos. “If it is found the cryptosystem is broken.”Earlier this year, French academic Antoine Joux published two papers that suggest such an algorithm could be found before long. “This is a big deal, since there was marginal progress for 25 years,” said Samuel. “This will spur researchers into looking more closely at the problem and most likely result in more progress.”
Alex Stamos, chief technology officer of the online security company Artemis, led a presentation describing how he and three other security researchers studied recent publications from the insular world of academic cryptopgraphy research, which covers trends in attacking common encryption schemes.
“Our conclusion is there is a small but definite chance that RSA and classic Diffie-Hellman will not be usable for encryption purposes in four to five years,” said Stamos, referring to the two most commonly used encryption methods.
Any hints that those methods could be undermined must be taken seriously, said Stamos. They are used to protect banking, online commerce, and e-mail, as well as the mechanisms that ensure that updates downloaded by operating systems such as Windows and OSX are genuine. The result of the two encryption methods being broken would be, said Stamos, “a total failure of trust on the Internet.”
RSA and Diffie-Hellman encryption are both underpinned by a mathematical challenge known as the discrete logarithm problem. That problem is computationally difficult to solve, ensuring that encrypted data can only be decoded quickly with knowledge of the secret key used to encode it in the first place. Breaking RSA or Diffie-Hellman encryption today requires using vast computing resources for significant periods of time.
However, it is possible that algorithms able to solve the discrete logarithm problem quickly could exist. “We rely on that efficient algorithm not being found,” said Jarved Samuel, a cryptographer who works for security consultancy ISEC Partners and presented alongside Stamos. “If it is found the cryptosystem is broken.”
Earlier this year, French academic Antoine Joux published two papers that suggest such an algorithm could be found before long. “This is a big deal, since there was marginal progress for 25 years,” said Samuel. “This will spur researchers into looking more closely at the problem and most likely result in more progress.”
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 03:09 (ten years ago) link
wait waht. Diffie-Hellman is about discrete log. RSA is integer factorization. Later on the article acknowledges that RSA "relies less directly on the discrete log problem". Another article I read states more honestly "history as has shown that advances in the discrete log problem are followed by advances in factorization."
if yr interested in cryptosystems that could be resilient to large advances in the problems we now rely on, this is a good place to start: http://pqcrypto.org/
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Friday, 23 August 2013 03:23 (ten years ago) link
Goddamnit, this is where I curse I didn't take any of the higher pay-grade/non-physics-related math classes in college...
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 03:29 (ten years ago) link
yeah I think I'll go ahead and try to learn something about elliptic curves before I start worrying about scalable quantum computing being achieved
― i too went to college (silby), Friday, 23 August 2013 05:26 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/1983/03/27/magazine/the-silent-power-of-the-nsa.html?smid=fb-share
― balls, Friday, 23 August 2013 05:37 (ten years ago) link
feel like the endgame here is the NSA's eventual symbolic dismantlement and transplantation into the other agencies, all of which presumably want some of the treasure.
― i too went to college (silby), Friday, 23 August 2013 05:42 (ten years ago) link
(talking out my ass of c.)
― i too went to college (silby), Friday, 23 August 2013 05:43 (ten years ago) link
ssa will be dismantled before nsa
http://theweek.com/article/index/248653/nsa-where-the-debate-breaks-down
― balls, Friday, 23 August 2013 05:50 (ten years ago) link
NZ police affidavits show use of PRISM for surveillance - apparently PRISM was used prior to the Kim Dotcom raid
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 08:33 (ten years ago) link
Groklaw shuts down too
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 08:42 (ten years ago) link
Massive public dislike/outcry abt recent passing of bill increasing/cementing those powers here (New Zealand) btw, to no avail
― albvivertine, Friday, 23 August 2013 09:07 (ten years ago) link
Looks like the UK Govt or the Independent are pulling some shenanigans.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/23/uk-government-independent-military-base
― oscar, Friday, 23 August 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
Didn't somebody have dinner with somebody else and Stephen Fry earlier in the week, ostensibly to talk about Russian homophobia?
― aldi young dudes (suzy), Friday, 23 August 2013 14:13 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2013/08/21/fbi-suspected-william-vollmann-was-the-unabomber/
The celebrated writer William Vollmann has revealed that the FBI once thought he might be the Unabomber, the anthrax mailer and a terrorist training with the Afghan mujahideen.
In the September issue of Harper’s magazine, Vollmann describes the alarming and ludicrous contents of his 785-page secret government file, 294 pages of which he obtained after suing the FBI and CIA under the Freedom of Information Act. Spiked with sarcasm directed at what he sees as the agencies’ arrogance, presumptuousness and ineptitude, his Harper’s essay, “Life As a Terrorist,” is inflamed with moral outrage at the systemic violation of his privacy. “I begin to see how government haters are made,” he writes.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 23 August 2013 15:36 (ten years ago) link
Ya, lots of news lately. Been reading the articles but had not had time to post on here.
Here is another one fresh off the press: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/23/nsa-prism-costs-tech-companies-paid
Not sure if it's been posted yet. If so, my apologies.
Seems like my WWW use has become increasingly narrow. Has anyone else's? Thinking it might change/go back to the way it was over time, though.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 23 August 2013 17:06 (ten years ago) link
anybody following the whole independent vs. snowden/greenwald thing
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 23 August 2013 17:07 (ten years ago) link
confusing
independent thing smells like a set-up. release 'damming' information that has shades of benghazi, make false claims about the guardian's journalism, report 'controversy' over leaks being dangerous to the public, and on top of that, retail this weird story about how the information miranda was carrying could be injurious to public safety.
so its all a one-sided story _plus_ it has "new" information.
it sources that to "the leaked documents obtained from the NSA by Edward Snowden". But the fact that this information was _in_ the leaked documents probably came to the independent via a government source, which mainly wanted to provide background on how 'dangerous' the leak was overall.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Friday, 23 August 2013 17:22 (ten years ago) link
well and snowden has denied ever giving anything to them which uh
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 23 August 2013 17:24 (ten years ago) link
oh sorry didn't read you very carefully there duh
There is currently a room full of very smart individuals working 24/7 figuring out ways to erode or topple Snowden/Greenwald's effect on the public consciousness. The Independent thing is just the tip of the iceberg.
― oscar, Friday, 23 August 2013 18:29 (ten years ago) link
Still hoping for some opinions on this thread: VPN providers S/D
(obv. VPN isn't NSA-proof, but am interested in slowing things down at least)
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 19:12 (ten years ago) link
Anonymity on the Web is really hard. I have my own thoughts on it, but nothing you can't find out with a simple Google search. Sorry for the non-answer. It's Friday and I'm feeling a bit burnt out.
In the meantime, have you seen this? https://panopticlick.eff.org/
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 23 August 2013 19:54 (ten years ago) link
Your browser fingerprint appears to be unique among the 3,308,511 tested so far.
Interesting. And this is with JS, Java, Flash all off and w/ad blocking on.
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:07 (ten years ago) link
The fonts you have installed also are a big unique-factor.
There are so many things, which I guess can be like meta info, which is used to ID you.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:14 (ten years ago) link
their FAQ says 85% of visitors are unique (altho the rate is falling as more data is collected). i'd read abt that font list trick for identifying a user before; i guess graphic designers must be more trackable than the average person
― 1staethyr, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:17 (ten years ago) link
+ apparently it's not just the fonts u have installed but the order in which the list is returned, which reflects node order
― 1staethyr, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
ugh
― Z S, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:40 (ten years ago) link
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/cass-sunstein-nsa-appointment-082213
Eeks
― curmudgeon, Friday, 23 August 2013 20:49 (ten years ago) link
Charles Pierce allows Jeffrey Toobin space on his blog to respond (and, yes, buy Toobin's book on the 2000 election).
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 August 2013 15:01 (ten years ago) link
toobin's nuremberg outrage really was the most revealingly bonkers shit. basically: suggesting that the international law adopted after ww2 was intended to apply to america = calling americans nazis. that stuff's for people who need it! meanwhile, this opening graf where i actually do directly compare edward snowden to JAMES EARL FUCKING RAY is just a thought-provoking historical analogy; we are all adults here.
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 24 August 2013 15:52 (ten years ago) link
I say that China and Russia probably copied Snowden's data and probably will make nefarious use of it. You write, "If Toobin wants to accuse Snowden of espionage, he should man-up and do it. Otherwise, this is just incoherent." It's true that I don't have proof that the Chinese and Russian took advantage of the intelligence windfall that fell into their laps. I don't say that I do have proof. Nor do I have proof that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow.
i c wut u did
― one yankee sympathizer masquerading as a historian (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 24 August 2013 16:05 (ten years ago) link
i
what
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 August 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
Nixon: "I am not suggesting Johnson is anything other than a patriot..."
― first I think it's time I kick a little verse! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 24 August 2013 16:12 (ten years ago) link
The U.S. National Security Agency has bugged the United Nations' New York headquarters, Germany's Der Spiegel weekly said on Sunday in a report on U.S. spying that could further strain relations between Washington and its allies. 'The data traffic gives us internal video teleconferences of the United Nations (yay!)', Der Spiegel quoted one document as saying, adding that within three weeks the number of decoded communications rose to 458 from 12.
― Z S, Sunday, 25 August 2013 15:43 (ten years ago) link
naive question: who "orders" this kind of thing at NSA? "Hack into the UN and spy on other countries!" - who tells someone to do that? is it some evil guy in shades in the upper echelons at the NSA who is somehow never forced to disclose this kind of thing except in confidential briefings to members of the senate committee on the path to dystopia or something?
― Z S, Sunday, 25 August 2013 15:45 (ten years ago) link
not the NSA per se, but this was a 2010 WikiLeaks revelation : http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/28/clinton-ordered-diplomats-spy-un/
― StanM, Sunday, 25 August 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
The politics of bugging the UN (and potential fallout from discovery of this) would make this a very high level decision. My guess would be that the idea could have originated at almost any level, but the decision to go ahead was approved by the national security council and particularly with the approval of whoever was president at the time.
― Aimless, Sunday, 25 August 2013 16:08 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/08/obama-surveillance-and-the-legacy-of-the-march-on-washington.html
haven't been the biggest fan of cobb at the NYer but this was good
― k3vin k., Monday, 26 August 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
Was waiting for someone to address that.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 26 August 2013 19:05 (ten years ago) link
That figures whose dissent consisted of a demand that the United States abide by its own Constitution could be vacuumed into a system meant to trace foreign threats raises the question of what other democratic demand, what present moral inconvenience, is being similarly thwarted.
it's a poignant irony but that's a weak article imo, it starts by ironically framing obama's own words to distance him from the civil rights movement, then lands on the above sudden and unsupported quote for its conclusion. there are many, MANY people with closer ties to the civil rights movement (if that's our standard) who are opposing these invasions than a solitary dude atop the pyramid.
― awake the snorting citizens (discreet), Monday, 26 August 2013 23:37 (ten years ago) link
mural altered
http://i.imgur.com/DVGxjhy.jpg
― HOOS it because...of steen???? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 29 August 2013 02:35 (ten years ago) link
Barack Obama is, as he pointed out in Selma, an heir to the civil-rights movement. What he decides to do with that legacy is another matter
oh, he's decided.
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 August 2013 05:47 (ten years ago) link
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nsa-spied-on-al-jazeera-communications-snowden-document-a-919681.html
― YOU FOOLS PAY OVER $2.50 for a comic book (forksclovetofu), Monday, 2 September 2013 05:34 (ten years ago) link
I watched Sneakers last night (don't ask) and it was kind of a hoot. Love the parts discussing how the NSA doesn't have the authority to spy domestically. Oh the 90s
― Z S, Monday, 2 September 2013 13:42 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/black-budget-summary-details-us-spy-networks-successes-failures-and-objectives/2013/08/29/7e57bb78-10ab-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html
So Snowden gave Gellman of the W. Post the Spy agencies budgets
― curmudgeon, Monday, 2 September 2013 14:32 (ten years ago) link
sneakers is great. Lawrence Lasker is like one of the only h-wood guys capable of not being excruciatingly dumb about computers onscreen. that 'can you guarantee my safety' bit is still loads of fun, along with a few other moments.
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Monday, 2 September 2013 16:11 (ten years ago) link
I always have a hard time remembering which one is Sneakers and which one is Hackers.
― the vineyards where the grapes of corporate rock are stored (cryptosicko), Monday, 2 September 2013 16:14 (ten years ago) link
When spies are denied authority to eavesdrop, then only unauthorized eavesdroppers will spy on us.
― Aimless, Monday, 2 September 2013 16:24 (ten years ago) link
the DEA: underrated!
AT&T, in return for payment by the government, has employees sit with government drug units and sift through company (not government) stored data reaching as far back as 1987....
Unlike controversial NSA programs like PRISM, Hemisphere does not see the DEA itself hoarding communications data; AT&T stores the data. Nonetheless, with only an administrative subpoena (not a warrant) drug agents can hone in on an individual’s communications data within an hour. As such Hempisphere is yet another example of how government agencies and corporations work in tandem to create and uphold the surveillance dragnets from which almost no communications within or going out of the U.S. escape....
“I’d speculate that one reason for the secrecy of the program is that it would be very hard to justify it to the public or the courts,” said the ACLU’s Jamil Jaffer.
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/03/dea_can_access_all_att_records/
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 3 September 2013 14:32 (ten years ago) link
Small lol at 'hempisphere'
― you may not like it now but you will (Zora), Tuesday, 3 September 2013 15:59 (ten years ago) link
Some good news today
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/09/hundreds-pages-nsa-spying-documents-be-released-result-eff-lawsuit
― c21m50nh3x460n, Thursday, 5 September 2013 17:34 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-gchq-encryption-codes-security
As long as they haven't cracked rot13 I'm still nfsr.
― StanM, Friday, 6 September 2013 04:19 (ten years ago) link
fnsr! Duh. :-(
― StanM, Friday, 6 September 2013 04:21 (ten years ago) link
Dubious headline, there. The article makes clear that the NSA hasn't broken RSA or anything.
― i too went to college (silby), Friday, 6 September 2013 05:18 (ten years ago) link
Independent security experts have long suspected that the NSA has been introducing weaknesses into security standards, a fact confirmed for the first time by another secret document. It shows the agency worked covertly to get its own version of a draft security standard issued by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology approved for worldwide use in 2006.
SSH 2.0?
― wombspace (abanana), Friday, 6 September 2013 09:08 (ten years ago) link
The NSA has worked closely with its British counterpart, the GCHQ, in the effort to break or get around the codes that protect the data that billions of people send across the Internet each day — including e-mails, bank transactions, Web searches, phone calls and chats, the newspapers reported on their Web sites Thursday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-has-made-strides-in-thwarting-encryption-used-to-protect-internet-communication/2013/09/05/0ec08efc-1669-11e3-a2ec-b47e45e6f8ef_story.html
― curmudgeon, Friday, 6 September 2013 17:15 (ten years ago) link
Phil Zimmermann is founder of Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) encryption and battled the U.S. government in the 1990s over his effort to establish strong Internet encryption for consumers. He said he is confident that the NSA has not cracked PGP encryption, which is now owned by Symantec. “The fact that they use PGP for government users indicates that they haven’t broken it,” he said. “Otherwise they’d have stopped using it.”
― curmudgeon, Friday, 6 September 2013 17:17 (ten years ago) link
Still hoping for some opinions on this thread: VPN providers S/D(obv. VPN isn't NSA-proof, but am interested in slowing things down at least)― Elvis Telecom, Friday, August 23, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, August 23, 2013 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I guess it's still in the works and they'll be publishing the source code soon.
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 6 September 2013 17:29 (ten years ago) link
http://www.popehat.com/2013/09/06/nsa-codebreaking-i-am-the-other/
― c21m50nh3x460n, Friday, 6 September 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
The is the one thing i recall related to potential NSA backdoors in encryption standards: http://www.schneier.com/essay-198.html
I'm sure there's other stuff too that we don't even know about.
this article is vaguely relevant to the thread too: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/barrett-brown-faces-105-years-in-jail-20130905?print=true
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Friday, 6 September 2013 18:20 (ten years ago) link
― Z S, Monday, September 2, 2013 8:42 AM (5 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
watched an episode of bored to death made in 2008 or 2009 that was all about surveillance and how stuff on email could never been found etc. and it was really disorienting.
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Saturday, 7 September 2013 05:44 (ten years ago) link
excellent article on what likely is and isn't secure: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Saturday, 7 September 2013 13:19 (ten years ago) link
The crazy thing is that this program's budget is about 800 million, while the PRISM budget was a mere 40 million.
― what_have_you, Saturday, 7 September 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
Bruce Schneier is the security expert and his recommendations are likely right on. I'm personally not interested in Tor, since I worry it'll leak stuff to people even less scrupulous than the NSA, but I could revisit that issue. I wish PGP were actually easy to use so I could start rejecting unencrypted email, but that's not gonna work out.
― i too went to college (silby), Saturday, 7 September 2013 18:54 (ten years ago) link
everybody should revert back to one-time pads for the next few months
― idembanana (abanana), Saturday, 7 September 2013 22:19 (ten years ago) link
We need to start encrypting ILX.
― going (to) hell for pleather (seandalai), Saturday, 7 September 2013 22:36 (ten years ago) link
Who knows who can read what we write here!!!
I'm gonna use the freedom of information act to get all the 77 info I can. Finally I will know what you monsters are up to back there!
― Øystein, Saturday, 7 September 2013 22:53 (ten years ago) link
Request Access to 77 Borad
― 2 ℜ 4 u (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Saturday, 7 September 2013 23:04 (ten years ago) link
another good article on the crypto topic: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1517
― "Dave Barlow" is the name Lou uses on sabermetrics baseball sites (s.clover), Sunday, 8 September 2013 20:07 (ten years ago) link
p=1517, okay. Then what?
― StanM, Sunday, 8 September 2013 20:23 (ten years ago) link
into BlackBerrys
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-smartphones-including-the-blackberry-a-921161.html
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 September 2013 20:13 (ten years ago) link
The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals.
Details of the intelligence-sharing agreement are laid out in a memorandum of understanding between the NSA and its Israeli counterpart that shows the US government handed over intercepted communications likely to contain phone calls and emails of American citizens. The agreement places no legally binding limits on the use of the data by the Israelis.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/11/nsa-americans-personal-data-israel-documents
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 16:28 (ten years ago) link
whoa
― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 September 2013 20:53 (ten years ago) link
i love how this neverending series of revelations is prompting swift and robust action on the part of legislators
...they're pretty much just going to avoid talking about it and hope it goes away, right? what's sad is that that's probably a pretty good strategy for them, it'll probably work.
― Z S, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 20:57 (ten years ago) link
The National Security Agency for almost three years searched a massive database of Americans’ phone call records attempting to identify potential terrorists in violation of court-approved privacy rules, and the problem went unfixed because no one at the agency had a full technical understanding of how its system worked, according to new documents and senior government officials.
Moreover, it was Justice Department officials who discovered the problem and reported it to the court that oversees surveillance programs, the documents show, undermining assertions by the NSA that self-reporting is part of its culture.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/declassified-court-documents-highlight-nsa-violations/2013/09/10/60b5822c-1a4b-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 11 September 2013 21:06 (ten years ago) link
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/09/fisa-judge-reggie-walton-skeptical-nsa-phone-record
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 12 September 2013 14:37 (ten years ago) link
NSA chief may be an insane Trekkie!
"When he was running the Army's Intelligence and Security Command, Alexander brought many of his future allies down to Fort Belvoir for a tour of his base of operations, a facility known as the Information Dominance Center. It had been designed by a Hollywood set designer to mimic the bridge of the starship Enterprise from Star Trek, complete with chrome panels, computer stations, a huge TV monitor on the forward wall, and doors that made a 'whoosh' sound when they slid open and closed. Lawmakers and other important officials took turns sitting in a leather 'captain's chair' in the center of the room and watched as Alexander, a lover of science-fiction movies, showed off his data tools on the big screen.
'Everybody wanted to sit in the chair at least once to pretend he was Jean-Luc Picard,' says a retired officer in charge of VIP visits."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2013/09/nsa-director-modeled-war-room-after-star-treks-enterprise.html
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/15/nsa-mind-keith-alexander-star-trek
― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 September 2013 21:02 (ten years ago) link
Wow.
In more mundane news:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/09/13/the-fisa-court-will-release-more-opinions-because-of-snowden/
― curmudgeon, Monday, 16 September 2013 21:29 (ten years ago) link
How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 20 September 2013 06:40 (ten years ago) link
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/09/27/the-other-questions-senator-ron-wyden-wants-answered-on-nsa-surveillance/
Dianne Feinstein had other ideas though
― curmudgeon, Friday, 27 September 2013 19:58 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/nsa-examines-social-networks-of-us-citizens.html?_r=0
By JAMES RISEN and LAURA POITRASPublished: September 28, 2013 WASHINGTON — Since 2010, the National Security Agency has been exploiting its huge collections of data to create sophisticated graphs of some Americans’ social connections that can identify their associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information, according to newly disclosed documents and interviews with officials.
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 28 September 2013 18:55 (ten years ago) link
shit -- they know I downloaded the Holy Ghost! album :/
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 28 September 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
And Drake's latest too
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 28 September 2013 19:29 (ten years ago) link
create sophisticated graphs of some Americans’ social connections
If this were approved under the ordinary safeguards against unreasonable search and seizure, with warrants obtained specific to a particular criminal investigation for which probable cause has been established linking the American to the crime, then it would be a good tool. Chances of that being true for NSA data collecting on Americans atm seem close to nil.
― Aimless, Saturday, 28 September 2013 20:14 (ten years ago) link
The policy shift was intended to help the agency “discover and track” connections between intelligence targets overseas and people in the United States…The agency was authorized to conduct “large-scale graph analysis on very large sets of communications metadata without having to check foreignness” of every e-mail address, phone number or other identifier.
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 28 September 2013 20:40 (ten years ago) link
kind of like the idea of Clusterfuck Summary Corner being a crucial NSA task
― goole, Monday, 30 September 2013 16:16 (ten years ago) link
don't know where else to put this
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news%2Finvestigators&id=9270668
I got into an argument with a friend about a year ago, him claiming that I was insane to worry about camera footage from a small drone because those small planes simply weren't capable of coherent, steadicam imaging. here's some fascinating footage from a smartcard reclaimed from a drone that crashlanded a few feet from him on the streets of manhattan and nearly took him out.
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 18:08 (ten years ago) link
(reclaimed from a different guy, not the friend who was complaining - sorry for unclear pronouns)
also not implying that's a government drone by putting it on this thread -- footage seems to start with the drone taking off from a nondescript civilian patio. still interesting.
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 2 October 2013 18:18 (ten years ago) link
the ol' tiny font trick
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/10/03/228878659/how-snowdens-email-provider-tried-to-foil-the-fbi-using-tiny-font
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 October 2013 14:57 (ten years ago) link
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/edward-snowden-receives-the-sam-adams-associates-for-news-photo/183943715
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 October 2013 18:19 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/2/nsa-chief-figures-foiled-terror-plots-misleading/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 October 2013 18:27 (ten years ago) link
lol @ the times
― HOOS it because...of steen???? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 11 October 2013 18:49 (ten years ago) link
I thought it was interesting how even with right-wing spin, the NSA looked foolish.
Here's Salon's take
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/02/nsa_director_admits_to_misleading
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 October 2013 18:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/leaks-by-edward-snowden-suggest-nsa-collects-millions-of-americans-address-books/2013/10/15/ce043b56-359f-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html
According to documents provided by former intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, the National Security Agency is gathering hundreds of millions of address books and contact lists from people around the world, including some Americans. Because the collection occurs in foreign countries, such as when data crosses international borders, the activities are not restricted by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, report Barton Gellman and Ashkan Soltani:
....
The NSA has not been authorized by Congress or the special intelligence court that oversees foreign surveillance to collect contact lists in bulk, and senior intelligence officials said it would be illegal to do so from facilities in the United States. The agency avoids the restrictions in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act by intercepting contact lists from access points “all over the world,” one official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the classified program. “None of those are on U.S. territory.”
Because of the method employed, the agency is not legally required or technically able to restrict its intake to contact lists belonging to specified foreign intelligence targets, he said.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 16:18 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/secret-court-says-it-is-no-rubber-stamp-led-to-changes-in-us-spying-requests/2013/10/15/d52936b0-35a5-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html?hpid=z4
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 15 October 2013 19:26 (ten years ago) link
Snowden talks to the NYT
"Mr. Snowden said he finally decided to act when he discovered a copy of a classified 2009 inspector general's report on the N.S.A.'s warrantless wiretapping program during the Bush administration. He said he found the document through a "dirty word search," which he described as an effort by a systems administrator to check a computer system for things that should not be there in order to delete them and sanitize the system.
"'It was too highly classified to be where it was,' he said of the report. He opened the document to make certain that it did not belong there, and after seeing what it revealed, 'curiosity prevailed,' he said.
"After reading about the program, which skirted the existing surveillance laws, he concluded that it had been illegal, he said. 'If the highest officials in government can break the law without fearing punishment or even any repercussions at all,' he said, 'secret powers become tremendously dangerous.'"
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took-no-secret-files-to-russia.html
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 October 2013 04:37 (ten years ago) link
Saturday in DC
https://rally.stopwatching.us/
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 22 October 2013 16:35 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/richard-cohen-edward-snowden-is-no-traitor/2013/10/21/f9d2ae5a-3a74-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html?tid=pm_pop
Well, clown Richard Cohen changes his mind
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 October 2013 17:57 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nsahaiku.net/
― snoop dogey doge (seandalai), Saturday, 26 October 2013 01:27 (ten years ago) link
Lawmaker Offers Strong Defense of U.S. Surveillance Efforts in Europe By BRIAN KNOWLTON Representative Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said the National Security Agency's surveillance program was designed to protect the countries from the threat of terror.
Merkel's phone monitored since 2002 to protect her!
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 October 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/10/28/snowden_spain_glenn_greenwald_reports_that_the_nsa_monitored_more_than_60.html
― curmudgeon, Monday, 28 October 2013 14:39 (ten years ago) link
Good times GOOD JOB USA
― Beatrix Kiddo (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 29 October 2013 02:10 (ten years ago) link
From a NY Times editorial:
The White House spokesman, Jay Carney, kept repeating that Mr. Obama ordered a review of surveillance policy a few months ago, but he would not confirm whether that includes the tapping of the cellphone of Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, or the collection of data on tens of millions of calls in France, Spain and elsewhere. It’s unlikely that Mr. Obama would have ordered any review if Edward Snowden’s leaks had not revealed the vacuum-cleaner approach to electronic spying. Mr. Carney left no expectation that the internal reviews will produce any significant public accounting — only that the White House might have “a little more detail” when they are completed.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 October 2013 14:25 (ten years ago) link
Dianne Feinstein irked at surveilling foreign leaders, apparently just fine for the unwashed of the US. Thanks DF, you waste.
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 October 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 October 2013 15:19 (ten years ago) link
morbs otm.
― everything on layaway (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 29 October 2013 15:39 (ten years ago) link
"We're really screwed now," one NSA official told The Cable. "You know things are bad when the few friends you've got disappear without a trace in the dead of night and leave no forwarding address."A former intelligence agency liaison to Congress said Feinstein's sudden outrage over spying on foreign leaders raised questions about how well informed she was about NSA programs and whether she'd been fully briefed by her staff. "The first question I'd ask is, what have you been doing for oversight? Second, if you've been reviewing this all along what has changed your mind?"The former official said the intelligence committees receive lengthy and detailed descriptions every year about all NSA programs, including surveillance. "They're not small books. They're about the size of those old family photo albums that were several inches thick. They're hundreds of pages long."A senior congressional aide said, "It's an absolute joke to think she hasn't been reading the signals intelligence intercepts as Chairman of Senate Intelligence for years."
A former intelligence agency liaison to Congress said Feinstein's sudden outrage over spying on foreign leaders raised questions about how well informed she was about NSA programs and whether she'd been fully briefed by her staff. "The first question I'd ask is, what have you been doing for oversight? Second, if you've been reviewing this all along what has changed your mind?"
The former official said the intelligence committees receive lengthy and detailed descriptions every year about all NSA programs, including surveillance. "They're not small books. They're about the size of those old family photo albums that were several inches thick. They're hundreds of pages long."
A senior congressional aide said, "It's an absolute joke to think she hasn't been reading the signals intelligence intercepts as Chairman of Senate Intelligence for years."
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/10/28/were_really_screwed_now_nsas_best_friend_just_shivved_the_spies
― HOOS it because...of steen???? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 29 October 2013 16:26 (ten years ago) link
It marks a significant reversal for a lawmaker who not only defended agency surveillance programs -- but is about to introduce a bill expected to protect some of its most controversial activities.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 October 2013 17:04 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/top-intelligence-officials-called-to-testify-on-nsa-surveillance-programs/2013/10/29/e9e9c250-40b7-11e3-a751-f032898f2dbc_story.html?hpid=z1
Alexander and Clapper say they worked with intelligence agencies of foreign countries
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 30 October 2013 12:09 (ten years ago) link
“The agency has been rebuked repeatedly by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for misrepresenting the nature of its spy programs and for violating the court’s confidential orders. In its defense, NSA officials have said the agency didn’t understand its own programs well enough to describe them accurately to the court.”
From the Wall Street Journal
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 30 October 2013 14:51 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html?hpid=z1
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 30 October 2013 18:17 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/28/4560792/how-i-delt-arms-on-the-internet-and-learned-to-love-it
― Lamp, Wednesday, 30 October 2013 18:37 (ten years ago) link
When Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, sat down with President Obama at the White House in April to discuss Syrian chemical weapons, Israeli-Palestinian peace talks and climate change, it was a cordial, routine exchange. The National Security Agency nonetheless went to work in advance and intercepted Mr. Ban’s talking points for the meeting, a feat the agency later reported as an “operational highlight” in a weekly internal brag sheet. It is hard to imagine what edge this could have given Mr. Obama in a friendly chat, if he even saw the N.S.A.’s modest scoop. (The White House won’t say.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/world/no-morsel-too-minuscule-for-all-consuming-nsa.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20131103&_r=0
― curmudgeon, Monday, 4 November 2013 14:55 (ten years ago) link
Blanket N.S.A. eavesdropping in Afghanistan, described in the documents as covering government offices and the hide-outs of second-tier Taliban militants alike, has failed to produce a clear victory against a low-tech enemy. The agency kept track as Syria amassed its arsenal of chemical weapons — but that knowledge did nothing to prevent the gruesome slaughter outside Damascus in August.
― curmudgeon, Monday, 4 November 2013 16:29 (ten years ago) link
But the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee said if Snowden had been a true whistle-blower, he could have reported his concerns to her committee privately.
"That didn't happen, and now he's done this enormous disservice to our country," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. "I think the answer is no clemency."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NSA_SURVEILLANCE_SNOWDEN_CLEMENCY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
― curmudgeon, Monday, 4 November 2013 19:43 (ten years ago) link
<i>But the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee said if Snowden had been a true whistle-blower, he could have reported his concerns to her committee privately.</i>
facepalm
― zanana rebozo (abanana), Tuesday, 5 November 2013 09:51 (ten years ago) link
Oh, Diane Feinstein
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 14:36 (ten years ago) link
Remember that dialogue the President promised, it must have happened and now its done and there will be no changes (unless Congress forces them)
As U.S. Weighs Spying Changes, Officials Say Data Sweeps Must Continue By DAVID E. SANGER The Obama administration is considering reining in many N.S.A. practices overseas, but for now, officials have concluded that there is no workable alternative to the collection of huge quantities of "metadata."
NY Times
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
it amazes me that somehow this sea of headlines about snowden 'requesting clemency' emerged
― HOOS it because...of steen???? (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 5 November 2013 16:06 (ten years ago) link
Emerged and then disappeared
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 16:10 (ten years ago) link
UK files terrorism charge vs David Miranda
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/04/americas_anti_greenwald_hypocrisy_is_the_new_york_times_a_terrorist_too/
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 5 November 2013 17:44 (ten years ago) link
Miranda was not charged with any offense, although British authorities said in August they had opened a criminal investigation after initially examining materials they seized from him.
― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 5 November 2013 17:51 (ten years ago) link
y'all caught this in that NYT feature?
In a long piece on the NSA in the New York Times a couple of days ago, the correspondent pauses midway and puts in parentheses: “(At the agency’s request, the Times is withholding some details that officials said could compromise intelligence operations.)”
There is a critical breach here. It is not new—the first time I saw this kind of confession of collusion in the Times was in 2008—but it no longer shocks as it did then. Snowden has escalated matters. We have questions to put before moving calmly on to the next paragraph....
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/09/middling_logic_middling_newspaper_new_york_times_bows_to_government_again_on_nsa/
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 10 November 2013 13:03 (ten years ago) link
any if you read the sagar book?
― balls, Sunday, 10 November 2013 15:33 (ten years ago) link
No, should we, or are you curious too?
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 10 November 2013 19:34 (ten years ago) link
curious i guess. i ain't got near the time right now and when i get a break coming up i will admit i am not likely to spend it reading a university press examination of the catch 22 of govt secrecy. though it is only a few hundred pages so maybe. or maybe i'll finally play some gta v. plus what i've seen of him he seems a bit pundity (dude retweeted friedman which tbh might be enough of a veto in itself). would like to read an academic (as in 'dry, serious, involved', not 'completely glibly unconcerned and unaware of the real world consequences and contexts of what it is examining') take on this, something that's skeptical (but not reveling in it's skepticism) of greenwald anonymous internet guy fawkes poses and also feinstein incompetent lapdog lil' brothers.
― balls, Sunday, 10 November 2013 20:20 (ten years ago) link
Top-Secret Document Reveals NSA Spied On Porn Habits As Part Of Plan To Discredit 'Radicalizers'
WASHINGTON -- The National Security Agency has been gathering records of online sexual activity and evidence of visits to pornographic websites as part of a proposed plan to harm the reputations of those whom the agency believes are radicalizing others through incendiary speeches, according to a top-secret NSA document. The document, provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, identifies six targets, all Muslims, as “exemplars” of how “personal vulnerabilities” can be learned through electronic surveillance, and then exploited to undermine a target's credibility, reputation and authority.The NSA document, dated Oct. 3, 2012, repeatedly refers to the power of charges of hypocrisy to undermine such a messenger. “A previous SIGINT" -- or signals intelligence, the interception of communications -- "assessment report on radicalization indicated that radicalizers appear to be particularly vulnerable in the area of authority when their private and public behaviors are not consistent,” the document argues.Among the vulnerabilities listed by the NSA that can be effectively exploited are “viewing sexually explicit material online” and “using sexually explicit persuasive language when communicating with inexperienced young girls.”
The NSA document, dated Oct. 3, 2012, repeatedly refers to the power of charges of hypocrisy to undermine such a messenger. “A previous SIGINT" -- or signals intelligence, the interception of communications -- "assessment report on radicalization indicated that radicalizers appear to be particularly vulnerable in the area of authority when their private and public behaviors are not consistent,” the document argues.
Among the vulnerabilities listed by the NSA that can be effectively exploited are “viewing sexually explicit material online” and “using sexually explicit persuasive language when communicating with inexperienced young girls.”
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 30 November 2013 08:25 (ten years ago) link
how times have stayed the same since MLK
― zanarkand bozo (abanana), Saturday, 30 November 2013 08:30 (ten years ago) link
wao
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/52a3bb30eab8ea8a2d3aff04-480-/bawj5tcceaaq6an.jpg
(http://www.businessinsider.com/nrol-39-logo-nothing-beyond-our-reach-2013-12)
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 03:53 (ten years ago) link
try and stop us
― zanarkand bozo (abanana), Tuesday, 10 December 2013 03:55 (ten years ago) link
one day you wake up and you realise that you're a real life supervillain and you decide to just run with it.
― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 04:03 (ten years ago) link
NSA Satellite patch from a couple years ago
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ba5raTGCEAASRNz.png
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 04:11 (ten years ago) link
lol nerds
― gbx, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 04:38 (ten years ago) link
the guy who drew iron maiden covers on his jean jacket now rules the world
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 10 December 2013 07:12 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-morale-down-after-edward-snowden-revelations-former-us-officials-say/2013/12/07/24975c14-5c65-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost
awww, how sad
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 December 2013 13:53 (ten years ago) link
Judge Questions Legality of N.S.A. Phone Records By CHARLIE SAVAGE A decision finds that keeping records of Americans' phone calls probably violates the Constitution and orders the government to stop collecting data on two plaintiffs. Document: Federal Judge's Ruling on N.S.A. Lawsuit
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 14:56 (ten years ago) link
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/16/nsa-surveillance-60-minutes-cbs-facts
Didn't see the 60 Minutes piece but Ackerman did, and debunks some of it
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 17 December 2013 15:17 (ten years ago) link
May as well release this bombshell late Friday during the holiday season:
Exclusive: Secret contract tied NSA and security industry pioneerhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 21 December 2013 00:58 (ten years ago) link
May as well release this bombshell late Friday during the holiday season:Exclusive: Secret contract tied NSA and security industry pioneerhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220
Uh, shit. The moment you think it can’t get worse …
― Allen (etaeoe), Saturday, 21 December 2013 03:32 (ten years ago) link
But several said that RSA also was misled by government officials, who portrayed the formula as a secure technological advance."They did not show their true hand," one person briefed on the deal said of the NSA, asserting that government officials did not let on that they knew how to break the encryption ...Martin Hellman, a former Stanford researcher who led the team that first invented [public key cryptography], said NSA experts tried to talk him and others into believing that the keys did not have to be as large as they planned ...New RSA Chief Executive Art Coviello and his team still wanted to be seen as part of the technological vanguard, former employees say, and the NSA had just the right pitch.
"They did not show their true hand," one person briefed on the deal said of the NSA, asserting that government officials did not let on that they knew how to break the encryption ...
Martin Hellman, a former Stanford researcher who led the team that first invented [public key cryptography], said NSA experts tried to talk him and others into believing that the keys did not have to be as large as they planned ...
New RSA Chief Executive Art Coviello and his team still wanted to be seen as part of the technological vanguard, former employees say, and the NSA had just the right pitch.
...so yr story is, you were a security firm with decades of experience in cryptography, and the national security agency came to you with a powerpoint about how your encryption methods were overkill and you should use their cool in-house formula, and you were like, this seems legit? how do you expect me to--
No alarms were raised, former employees said, because the deal was handled by business leaders rather than pure technologists.
o
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 21 December 2013 11:54 (ten years ago) link
I expect RSA will get sued out of existence.
― zanarkand bozo (abanana), Saturday, 21 December 2013 11:55 (ten years ago) link
rsa should sue nsa for misleading them about the purpose of the $10 million they left on the elmo
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 21 December 2013 12:01 (ten years ago) link
http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/2151000/ngbbs408c81d08f1b2.jpg
― Strangers look on with a discernible, barely contained ‘wow’. (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 21 December 2013 19:00 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-after-months-of-nsa-revelations-says-his-missions-accomplished/2013/12/23/49fc36de-6c1c-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html?hpid=z1
http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/updates/
Washington Post newsprint headline for their top of page A1 interview: Edward Snowden: 'I already won'
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:33 PM (0
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 24 December 2013 16:37 (ten years ago) link
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/catalog-reveals-nsa-has-back-doors-for-numerous-devices-a-940994.html
― StanM, Sunday, 29 December 2013 15:05 (ten years ago) link
Got a nice Android tablet for xmas, first thing i did was tape over the inside camera.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 29 December 2013 19:03 (ten years ago) link
I don't think you have to be afraid of those NSA infidels unless you attract their attention by mentioning words like Waihopai, INFOSEC, Information Security, Information Warfare, IW, IS, Priavacy, Information Terrorism, Terrorism Defensive Information, Defense Information Warfare, Offensive Information, Offensive Information Warfare, National Information Infrastructure, InfoSec, Reno, Compsec, Computer Terrorism, Firewalls, Secure Internet Connections, ISS, Passwords, DefCon V, Hackers, Encryption, Espionage, USDOJ, NSA, CIA, S/Key, SSL, FBI, Secert Service, USSS, Defcon, Military, White House, Undercover, NCCS, Mayfly, PGP, PEM, RSA, Perl-RSA, MSNBC, bet, AOL, AOL TOS, CIS, CBOT, AIMSX, STARLAN, 3B2, BITNET, COSMOS, DATTA, E911, FCIC, HTCIA, IACIS, UT/RUS, JANET, JICC, ReMOB, LEETAC, UTU, VNET, BRLO, BZ, CANSLO, CBNRC, CIDA, JAVA, Active X, Compsec 97, LLC, DERA, Mavricks, Meta-hackers, ^?, Steve Case, Tools, Telex, Military Intelligence, Scully, Flame, Infowar, Bubba, Freeh, Archives, Sundevil, jack, Investigation, ISACA, NCSA, spook words, Verisign, Secure, ASIO, Lebed, ICE, NRO, Lexis-Nexis, NSCT, SCIF, FLiR, Lacrosse, Flashbangs, HRT, DIA, USCOI, CID, BOP, FINCEN, FLETC, NIJ, ACC, AFSPC, BMDO, NAVWAN, NRL, RL, NAVWCWPNS, NSWC, USAFA, AHPCRC, ARPA, LABLINK, USACIL, USCG, NRC, ~, CDC, DOE, FMS, HPCC, NTIS, SEL, USCODE, CISE, SIRC, CIM, ISN, DJC, SGC, UNCPCJ, CFC, DREO, CDA, DRA, SHAPE, SACLANT, BECCA, DCJFTF, HALO, HAHO, FKS, 868, GCHQ, DITSA, SORT, AMEMB, NSG, HIC, EDI, SAS, SBS, UDT, GOE, DOE, GEO, Masuda, Forte, AT, GIGN, Exon Shell, CQB, CONUS, CTU, RCMP, GRU, SASR, GSG-9, 22nd SAS, GEOS, EADA, BBE, STEP, Echelon, Dictionary, MD2, MD4, MDA, MYK, 747,777, 767, MI5, 737, MI6, 757, Kh-11, Shayet-13, SADMS, Spetznaz, Recce, 707, CIO, NOCS, Halcon, Duress, RAID, Psyops, grom, D-11, SERT, VIP, ARC, S.E.T. Team, MP5k, DREC, DEVGRP, DF, DSD, FDM, GRU, LRTS, SIGDEV, NACSI, PSAC, PTT, RFI, SIGDASYS, TDM. SUKLO, SUSLO, TELINT, TEXTA. ELF, LF, MF, VHF, UHF, SHF, SASP, WANK, Colonel, domestic disruption, smuggle, 15kg, nitrate, Pretoria, M-14, enigma, Bletchley Park, Clandestine, nkvd, argus, afsatcom, CQB, NVD, Counter Terrorism Security, Rapid Reaction, Corporate Security, Police, sniper, PPS, ASIS, ASLET, TSCM, Security Consulting, High Security, Security Evaluation, Electronic Surveillance, MI-17, Counterterrorism, spies, eavesdropping, debugging, interception, COCOT, rhost, rhosts, SETA, Amherst, Broadside, Capricorn, Gamma, Gorizont, Guppy, Ionosphere, Mole, Keyhole, Kilderkin, Artichoke, Badger, Cornflower, Daisy, Egret, Iris, Hollyhock, Jasmine, Juile, Vinnell, B.D.M.,Sphinx, Stephanie, Reflection, Spoke, Talent, Trump, FX, FXR, IMF, POCSAG, Covert Video, Intiso, r00t, lock picking, Beyond Hope, csystems, passwd, 2600 Magazine, Competitor, EO, Chan, Alouette,executive, Event Security, Mace, Cap-Stun, stakeout, ninja, ASIS, ISA, EOD, Oscor, Merlin, NTT, SL-1, Rolm, TIE, Tie-fighter, PBX, SLI, NTT, MSCJ, MIT, 69, RIT, Time, MSEE, Cable & Wireless, CSE, Embassy, ETA, Porno, Fax, finks, Fax encryption, white noise, pink noise, CRA, M.P.R.I., top secret, Mossberg, 50BMG, Macintosh Security, Macintosh Internet Security, Macintosh Firewalls, Unix Security, VIP Protection, SIG, sweep, Medco, TRD, TDR, sweeping, TELINT, Audiotel, Harvard, 1080H, SWS, Asset, Satellite imagery, force, Cypherpunks, Coderpunks, TRW, remailers, replay, redheads, RX-7, explicit, FLAME, Pornstars, AVN, Playboy, Anonymous, Sex, chaining, codes, Nuclear, 20, subversives, SLIP, toad, fish, data havens, unix, c, a, b, d, the, Elvis, quiche, DES, 1*, NATIA, NATOA, sneakers, counterintelligence, industrial espionage, PI, TSCI, industrial intelligence, H.N.P., Juiliett Class Submarine, Locks, loch, Ingram Mac-10, sigvoice, ssa, E.O.D., SEMTEX, penrep, racal, OTP, OSS, Blowpipe, CCS, GSA, Kilo Class, squib, primacord, RSP, Becker, Nerd, fangs, Austin, Comirex, GPMG, Speakeasy, humint, GEODSS, SORO, M5, ANC, zone, SBI, DSS, S.A.I.C., Minox, Keyhole, SAR, Rand Corporation, Wackenhutt, EO, Wackendude, mol, Hillal, GGL, CTU, botux, Virii, CCC, Blacklisted 411, Internet Underground, XS4ALL, Retinal Fetish, Fetish, Yobie, CTP, CATO, Phon-e, Chicago Posse, l0ck, spook keywords, PLA, TDYC, W3, CUD, CdC, Weekly World News, Zen, World Domination, Dead, GRU, M72750, Salsa, 7, Blowfish, Gorelick, Glock, Ft. Meade, press-release, Indigo, wire transfer, e-cash, Bubba the Love Sponge, Digicash, zip, SWAT, Ortega, PPP, crypto-anarchy, AT&T, SGI, SUN, MCI, Blacknet, Middleman, KLM, Blackbird, plutonium, Texas, jihad, SDI, Uzi, Fort Meade, supercomputer, bullion, 3, Blackmednet, Propaganda, ABC, Satellite phones, Planet-1, cryptanalysis, nuclear, FBI, Panama, fissionable, Sears Tower, NORAD, Delta Force, SEAL, virtual, Dolch, secure shell, screws, Black-Ops, Area51, SABC, basement, data-haven, black-bag, TEMPSET, Goodwin, rebels, ID, MD5, IDEA, garbage, market, beef, Stego, unclassified, utopia, orthodox, Alica, SHA, Global, gorilla, Bob, Pseudonyms, MITM, Gray Data, VLSI, mega, Leitrim, Yakima, Sugar Grove, Cowboy, Gist, 8182, Gatt, Platform, 1911, Geraldton, UKUSA, veggie, 3848, Morwenstow, Consul, Oratory, Pine Gap, Menwith, Mantis, DSD, BVD, 1984, Flintlock, cybercash, government, hate, speedbump, illuminati, president, freedom, cocaine, $, Roswell, ESN, COS, E.T., credit card, b9, fraud, assasinate, virus, anarchy, rogue, mailbomb, 888, Chelsea, 1997, Whitewater, MOD, York, plutonium, William Gates, clone, BATF, SGDN, Nike, Atlas, Delta, TWA, Kiwi, PGP 2.6.2., PGP 5.0i, PGP 5.1, siliconpimp, Lynch, 414, Face, Pixar, IRIDF, eternity server, Skytel, Yukon, Templeton, LUK, Cohiba, Soros, Standford, niche, 51, H&K, USP, ^, sardine, bank, EUB, USP, PCS, NRO, Red Cell, Glock 26, snuffle, Patel, package, ISI, INR, INS, IRS, GRU, RUOP, GSS, NSP, SRI, Ronco, Armani, BOSS, Chobetsu, FBIS, BND, SISDE, FSB, BfV, IB, froglegs, JITEM, SADF, advise, TUSA, HoHoCon, SISMI, FIS, MSW, Spyderco, UOP, SSCI, NIMA, MOIS, SVR, SIN, advisors, SAP, OAU, PFS, Aladdin, chameleon man, Hutsul, CESID, Bess, rail gun, Peering, 17, 312, NB, CBM, CTP, Sardine, SBIRS, SGDN, ADIU, DEADBEEF, IDP, IDF, Halibut, SONANGOL, Flu, &, Loin, PGP 5.53, EG&G, AIEWS, AMW, WORM, MP5K-SD, 1071, WINGS, cdi, DynCorp, UXO, Ti, THAAD, package, chosen, PRIME, SURVIAC, comrade Adam.
(list is from www.attrition.org - but "sardine" really? are they known for their terrorist tendencies?)
― StanM, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 10:27 (ten years ago) link
( http://attrition.org/misc/keywords.html is the link )
― StanM, Wednesday, 1 January 2014 10:28 (ten years ago) link
This is probably a huge coincidence but that tablet died last night and now it won't come back on.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 15:04 (ten years ago) link
Completely serious.
D'oh. Nevermind it works again.
But still.....makes you think.
― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 1 January 2014 15:26 (ten years ago) link
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/opinion/edward-snowden-whistle-blower.html
― k3vin k., Thursday, 2 January 2014 03:52 (ten years ago) link
OPINION | EDITORIALEdward Snowden, Whistle-BlowerBy THE EDITORIAL BOARDConsidering the value of his leaks and the N.S.A. abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden should be offered clemency or a plea bargain.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 January 2014 16:22 (ten years ago) link
nyt otm
― creating an ilHOOSion usic sight and sound (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 2 January 2014 16:48 (ten years ago) link
Good on the NYT.
Digby linked to this excellent speech given by Barton Gellman on responsible journalism in the age of terror.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2014/01/priorities.html
― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 January 2014 20:11 (ten years ago) link
Well, this is just precious:
That violent hostility lies just beneath the surface of the domestic debate over NSA spying is still ongoing. Some members of Congress have hailed Snowden as a whistle-blower, the New York Times has called for clemency, and pundits regularly defend his actions on Sunday talk shows. In intelligence community circles, Snowden is considered a nothing short of a traitor in wartime.
“His name is cursed every day over here,” a defense contractor told BuzzFeed, speaking from an overseas intelligence collections base. “Most everyone I talk to says he needs to be tried and hung, forget the trial and just hang him.”
One Army intelligence officer even offered BuzzFeed a chillingly detailed fantasy.
“I think if we had the chance, we would end it very quickly,” he said. “Just casually walking on the streets of Moscow, coming back from buying his groceries. Going back to his flat and he is casually poked by a passerby. He thinks nothing of it at the time starts to feel a little woozy and thinks it’s a parasite from the local water. He goes home very innocently and next thing you know he dies in the shower.”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bennyjohnson/americas-spies-want-edward-snowden-dead
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:30 (ten years ago) link
no news there rlly
― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
“I would love to put a bullet in his head,” one Pentagon official, a former special forces officer, said bluntly. “I do not take pleasure in taking another human beings life, having to do it in uniform, but he is single-handedly the greatest traitor in American history.”
guess the civil war never happened, huh?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 17 January 2014 17:44 (ten years ago) link
Charles Pierce:
Balls. COINTELPRO. CISPES. The McCarran Act. The Plumbers. Mossadegh. Arbenz. The "U.S. intelligence agencies" were anchored in nothing but their own arrogance. The president should be ashamed to base his arguments in such plainly ahistorical balderdash.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/obama-nsa-speech-011714
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 17 January 2014 19:03 (ten years ago) link
It is a helpful story because it makes very explicit the degree to which our intelligence agencies imagine themselves to be sovereign states, answerable to no law but their own interests. They throw a thin disguise over this attitude by speaking as if their own interests were always absolutely identical to US interests, when in reality they are the tail that thinks it ought to wag the dog.
― Aimless, Friday, 17 January 2014 19:23 (ten years ago) link
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116253/edward-snowden-glenn-greenwald-julian-assange-what-they-believe
― Mordy , Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:14 (ten years ago) link
the fuck is up with that guy
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:26 (ten years ago) link
Willentz sounds Deeply Saddened that these two men don't believe in Democratic states.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:31 (ten years ago) link
Snowden, it seems, mostly engaged in postadolescent banter about sex and Internet gaming—and occasionally mused about firearms. “I have a Walther P22,” he wrote. “It’s my only gun, but I love it to death.” The Walther P22, a fairly standard handgun, is not especially fearsome, but Snowden’s affection for it hinted at some of his developing affinities.
― this harmless group of nerds and the women that love them (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:32 (ten years ago) link
A response:
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:38 (ten years ago) link
That New Republic article is just crazy. I don't give two flips what sort of ideological mess of pottage Snowden or Assange might carry around in their brains or what self-contradictory views they may hold about various leftist sacred cows. Exposing government corruption and overreach are non-ideological good deeds, unconnected to whatever beliefs motivated them.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 01:41 (ten years ago) link
yeah i would love to read a good greenwald takedown but man that thing is nowhere near it.
― balls, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 02:58 (ten years ago) link
wilentz is pretty useless when he's not writing about 19th century history.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 21 January 2014 03:57 (ten years ago) link
I saw Obama on Jay Leno and Obama noted in response to Leno mentioning how Daniel Ellsberg didn't flee, that yes we have whistleblower protection here in the US. Of course there was no discussion of how Obama's Justice Department has gone after whistleblowers more than any administration in history, and how Ellsberg supports what Snowden has done.
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 21 January 2014 16:19 (ten years ago) link
http://motherboard.vice.com/en_ca/blog/maybe-the-most-orwellian-text-message-ever-sent
― Mordy , Wednesday, 22 January 2014 16:11 (ten years ago) link
Wow. Must admit I have not been following the recent Ukraine govt vs protestors events
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 22 January 2014 16:13 (ten years ago) link
amazing
― just (Matt P), Wednesday, 22 January 2014 16:15 (ten years ago) link
not amazing actually, just yikes
yurp
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 22 January 2014 18:29 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/independent-review-board-says-nsa-phone-data-program-is-illegal-and-should-end/2014/01/22/4cebd470-83dd-11e3-bbe5-6a2a3141e3a9_story.html?hpid=z4
But Prez and many others don't care what this board majority thinks, alas
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 23 January 2014 15:30 (ten years ago) link
At risk of dog piling even more info into this thread, the sessions from from the recent Chaos Communication Congress are of exceedingly high quality:http://www.youtube.com/user/CCCen
If you only watch one, watch Paglen's "Seeing The Secret State" presentation. HFS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j56s46e97Lo
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 24 January 2014 11:07 (ten years ago) link
I spent a fruitless half day getting the friend of a certain Rolling Stone writer to recant her addled definition of "traitor" as it applied to Snowden.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2014 11:50 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/snowden-denies-stealing-passwords-to-access-secret-files/2014/01/23/d1f7d9e4-8472-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-disagrees-with-watchdog-groups-conclusion-that-nsa-phone-program-is-illegal/2014/01/23/7a945564-8464-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html
― curmudgeon, Friday, 24 January 2014 16:12 (ten years ago) link
One more thing to read that I haven't read yet http://www.salon.com/2014/01/23/glenn_greenwalds_heroism_standing_up_to_our_new_orwellian_police_state/
― curmudgeon, Friday, 24 January 2014 16:42 (ten years ago) link
got into it on twitter with cathy fitzpatrick today as she insisted that snowden, greenwald, the EFF, and anyone who wants useful encryption are secret anarchists plotting "anarchy, where anarchists are in charge"
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 24 January 2014 17:31 (ten years ago) link
that was fun
Uh, who is she?
― curmudgeon, Friday, 24 January 2014 18:09 (ten years ago) link
kinda thinking someone who thinks anarchy is 'where anarchists are in charge' is prob terminally confused about what words mean in general
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 24 January 2014 18:22 (ten years ago) link
― curmudgeon, Friday, January 24, 2014 6:09 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
historian/"human rights activist"/weirdo loved on the right for her writing about the USSR's large body count, with apparently a sideline in the technical details of encryption.
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:21 (ten years ago) link
lol, looked her up and immediately found a horrified tweet from her about how 'there really is a magazine called JACOBIN!'
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:37 (ten years ago) link
lmao
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:37 (ten years ago) link
Just read a good NYROB piece on Snowden-Manning-Assange. Not up yet, unfortunately.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:42 (ten years ago) link
love "where anarchists are in charge"
dreamt last night i was at a party w all my high school friends + snowden; we went out for beer but he convinced me to help raid some vague government facility on our way back and i got beaten up by a russian(?) soldier, then it turned into some weird body horror thing w parasites on my wounds, glad to be awake
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:46 (ten years ago) link
Following President Barack Obama's reelection in November, 2012, Fitzpatrick penned an entry on her own blog in which she alleged that Republican challenger Mitt Romney's campaign's "ORCA" digital operation had failed because Targeted Victory, the company responsible for much of its online and digital strategy had employed African-American developers who she alleged to have favored the Obama campaign and whose politics was somehow deliberately reflected as bugs left in their work.
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:55 (ten years ago) link
black people bug like this
― just (Matt P), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:57 (ten years ago) link
first mistake was calling it ORCA not MOBY
― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Friday, 24 January 2014 19:58 (ten years ago) link
was going to write something else making light fun of her but christ what a vile person, fuck her
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 24 January 2014 20:04 (ten years ago) link
yeah i hadn't wiki'd her prior to politely engaging on twitter and being met with derision, she's so deep in the black hole of dumb i didn't even want to follow her down to potshots
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Friday, 24 January 2014 20:12 (ten years ago) link
U.S. Willing to Hold Talks if Snowden Pleads Guilty By STEVE KENNY NY TimesAttorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. did not specify the guilty pleas the Justice Department would expect before it would open talks with Mr. Snowden's lawyers.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 24 January 2014 21:43 (ten years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/25/us/on-childrens-website-nsa-puts-a-furry-smiley-face-on-its-mission.html
― Mordy , Saturday, 25 January 2014 05:03 (ten years ago) link
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090819011825/lossimpson/es/images/9/9c/Poochie.png
― StanM, Saturday, 25 January 2014 09:19 (ten years ago) link
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM4ODYwNDY3NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjYxNjEzMQ@@._V1_SY317_CR6,0,214,317_.jpg
― lollercoaster of rove (s.clover), Saturday, 25 January 2014 23:50 (ten years ago) link
Talking about that for years over here:
Kids section of websites by professionally paranoid or otherwise creepy organizations
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 26 January 2014 03:44 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-intelligence-director-calls-on-snowden-to-return-nsa-documents/2014/01/29/7bd9c9ee-88f7-11e3-833c-33098f9e5267_story.html?hpid=z1
Clapper focused his opening remarks on Snowden, delivering a blistering stream of criticism in which he described the former contractor for the National Security Agency as a hypocrite who has severely undermined U.S. security.
Clapper said the documents exposed by Snowden have bolstered adversaries, caused allies to curtail cooperation with the United States, enabled terrorist groups to alter the ways they communicate, and put lives of U.S. intelligence operatives at risk.
versus Senator Wyden
At one point, Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) decried what he described as a “culture of misinformation” among U.S. intelligence officials, cataloguing misstatements and falsehoods that had been exposed by Snowden.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 January 2014 20:55 (ten years ago) link
http://pando.com/2014/02/04/the-first-congressman-to-battle-the-nsa-is-dead-no-one-noticed-no-one-cares/
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, 5 February 2014 02:22 (ten years ago) link
Meanwhile Mike Rogers reminds us why we need a Bill of Rights in the first place.
― Bryan Fairy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 5 February 2014 02:34 (ten years ago) link
He and Clapper have deleted the first and 4th amendments now
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 16:22 (ten years ago) link
he's gonna force the issue- on principle
― ad music for ad people (Hunt3r), Friday, 7 February 2014 19:18 (ten years ago) link
Surely the Bill of Rights was never intended to tie the government's hands.
― Aimless, Friday, 7 February 2014 19:20 (ten years ago) link
it's not a suicide pact, u kno
― ad music for ad people (Hunt3r), Friday, 7 February 2014 19:23 (ten years ago) link
it would genuinely shock me if GG actually got arrested.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 7 February 2014 19:29 (ten years ago) link
we track 'em, you whack 'em
― ad music for ad people (Hunt3r), Monday, 10 February 2014 17:34 (ten years ago) link
Should there be a thread for the intercept
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 10 February 2014 18:27 (ten years ago) link
That article's great
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 10 February 2014 18:28 (ten years ago) link
so Snowden 'web crawled' the data away from the NSA
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/02/09
I'm sure that Sunday Times article wd be even funnier if i understood it.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 20:55 (ten years ago) link
wget the planet
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 21:00 (ten years ago) link
When inserted with Mr. Snowden’s passwords, the web crawler became especially powerful.
'when he spoke his incantation the crawler grew 3 sizes from computer magic'
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 11 February 2014 21:02 (ten years ago) link
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/the-day-the-internet-didnt-fight-back-482493?site=classic
All was not lost. By late Tuesday, some 70,000 calls had been placed to legislators and roughly 150,000 people had sent their representatives an email. But on privacy forums and Reddit, significant discussions failed to materialize.
bcz even if a quarter of a million people contact their representatives, it doesn't really matter if no one on reddit is into it
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:05 (ten years ago) link
protest will always be pooh-poohed henceforth unless we throw our bodies in the gears of the machine
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:09 (ten years ago) link
Sites like Tumblr, Mozilla and DuckDuckGo, which were listed as organizers, did nothing to their homepages
The eight major technology companies — Google, Microsoft, Facebook, AOL, Apple, Twitter, Yahoo and LinkedIn — that joined forces in December in a public campaign to “reform government surveillance” only participated Tuesday insofar as having a joint website flash the protest banner.
No DuckDuckGo, and no AOL=no credibility with lawmakers
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:18 (ten years ago) link
it's exceedingly well stage managed by one side or the other these days. xp
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 12 February 2014 20:18 (ten years ago) link
Snowden elected rector of University of Glasgow...
― bizarro gazzara, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 17:08 (ten years ago) link
fresh at the intercept
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/02/18/snowden-docs-reveal-covert-surveillance-and-pressure-tactics-aimed-at-wikileaks-and-its-supporters/
Illustrating how far afield the NSA deviates from its self-proclaimed focus on terrorism and national security, these documents reveal that the agency considered using its sweeping surveillance system against Pirate Bay, which has been accused of facilitating copyright violations. The agency also approved surveillance of the foreign “branches” of hacktivist groups, mentioning Anonymous by name.The documents call into question the Obama administration’s repeated insistence that U.S. citizens are not being caught up in the sweeping surveillance dragnet being cast by the NSA. Under the broad rationale considered by the agency, for example, any communication with a group designated as a “malicious foreign actor,” such as WikiLeaks and Anonymous, would be considered fair game for surveillance.Julian Sanchez, a research fellow at the Cato Institute who specializes in surveillance issues, says the revelations shed a disturbing light on the NSA’s willingness to sweep up American citizens in its surveillance net.“All the reassurances Americans heard that the broad authorities of the FISA Amendments Act could only be used to ‘target’ foreigners seem a bit more hollow,” Sanchez says, “when you realize that the ‘foreign target’ can be an entire Web site or online forum used by thousands if not millions of Americans.”
The documents call into question the Obama administration’s repeated insistence that U.S. citizens are not being caught up in the sweeping surveillance dragnet being cast by the NSA. Under the broad rationale considered by the agency, for example, any communication with a group designated as a “malicious foreign actor,” such as WikiLeaks and Anonymous, would be considered fair game for surveillance.
Julian Sanchez, a research fellow at the Cato Institute who specializes in surveillance issues, says the revelations shed a disturbing light on the NSA’s willingness to sweep up American citizens in its surveillance net.
“All the reassurances Americans heard that the broad authorities of the FISA Amendments Act could only be used to ‘target’ foreigners seem a bit more hollow,” Sanchez says, “when you realize that the ‘foreign target’ can be an entire Web site or online forum used by thousands if not millions of Americans.”
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 17:26 (ten years ago) link
can't believe glenn hasn't been running with 'the snowden files' as a term its gold jerry
― i have the new brutal HOOS if you want it (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 19:35 (ten years ago) link
After having read The Puzzle Palace years ago, before Snowden's leaks, I'm convinced that the NSA as an institution feels entitled to sweep up every electronic signal on earth, regardless of its origins and minor distinctions like US citizenship seem totally irrelevant to the job. And if no one ever punishes them for breaking the law, they are obviously correct in that belief.
― Aimless, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 19:48 (ten years ago) link
skypes into SXSW via 7 proxy servers
https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/coming-soon-virtual-conversation-edward-snowden
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 10 March 2014 18:06 (ten years ago) link
they are prepared for ~1 million connections
― sleeve, Monday, 10 March 2014 18:19 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/03/10/edward-snowden-theyre-setting-fire-to-the-future-of-the-internet/?hpid=z3
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/03/07/snowden-i-raised-nsa-concerns-internally-over-10-times-before-going-rogue/
― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 March 2014 19:05 (ten years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-surveillance-program-reaches-into-the-past-to-retrieve-replay-phone-calls/2014/03/18/226d2646-ade9-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html
By Barton Gellman and Ashkan Soltani, Published: March 18 The National Security Agency has built a surveillance system capable of recording “100 percent” of a foreign country’s telephone calls, enabling the agency to rewind and review conversations as long as a month after they take place, according to people with direct knowledge of the effort and documents supplied by former contractor Edward Snowden.
A senior manager for the program compares it to a time machine — one that can replay the voices from any call without requiring that a person be identified in advance for surveillance.
The voice interception program, called MYSTIC, began in 2009. Its RETRO tool, short for “retrospective retrieval,” and related projects reached full capacity against the first target nation in 2011. Planning documents two years later anticipated similar operations elsewhere.
In the initial deployment, collection systems are recording “every single” conversation nationwide, storing billions of them in a 30-day rolling buffer that clears the oldest calls as new ones arrive, according to a classified summary.
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 11:16 (ten years ago) link
At the request of U.S. officials, The Washington Post is withholding details that could be used to identify the country where the system is being employed or other countries where its use was envisioned.
Hmmmmmm. I wonder where?
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 19 March 2014 11:18 (ten years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/BHWjc1x.jpg
― 龜, Monday, 31 March 2014 00:38 (ten years ago) link
― purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Monday, 31 March 2014 14:33 (ten years ago) link
SORRY MORDY
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/business/media/coverage-of-snowden-and-boston-attack-win-pulitzer-prizes.html
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Monday, 14 April 2014 19:17 (ten years ago) link
lol @ this guy
(CNN) -- Months after accepting asylum in Russia, fugitive U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden on Thursday asked Russian President Vladimir Putin about Moscow's own surveillance practices.
"Does Russia intercept, store or analyze in any way the communications of millions of individuals?" Snowden asked in English via a video link during Putin's annual question-and-answer program, which was broadcast on state television. "And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than their subjects, under surveillance?"
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/17/world/europe/russia-snowden-putin/
― Mordy , Thursday, 17 April 2014 18:13 (ten years ago) link
Putin, a former intelligence agent, noted that his questioner, a former National Security Agency contractor, shares that background. "So, we can speak in professional language," he said.
― purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 17 April 2014 18:22 (ten years ago) link
This is a song my band just wrote about the NSA.
http://thedustbunnies.bandcamp.com/track/honey-demo
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 22 April 2014 02:38 (ten years ago) link
Brian Williams of NBC got to interview Snowden. Interview next week.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 May 2014 22:32 (nine years ago) link
This is disturbing.
― schwantz, Tuesday, 27 May 2014 17:24 (nine years ago) link
is it just me or does this make it worse?http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/us/politics/snowden-says-he-was-a-spy-not-just-an-analyst.html
like it's not that he was an employee who saw things that upset him and he blew a whistle. acc to his account he was actually a part of the US security/espionage infrastructure and betrayed that confidence.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:41 (nine years ago) link
"make it worse"
"a part of the US security/espionage infrastructure and betrayed that confidence"
Make what worse? You still think his actions were worse than the NSA's? One can be a whistleblower against unconstitutional behavior in any government job
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:48 (nine years ago) link
no, not worse than the NSA's. worse in that it makes my opinion of him lower.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:49 (nine years ago) link
The House even voted last week to curb some of the NSA's domestic bulk-data collection spying program.
Like with Greenwald one does not have like a person, to recognize that they have done some good things
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 16:52 (nine years ago) link
he was actually a part of the US security/espionage infrastructure and betrayed that confidence.
― Mordy, Wednesday, May 28, 2014 4:41 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
he's always said he put the constitution above the loyalty oath.
― purposely lend impetus to my HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 18:23 (nine years ago) link
"he was actually a part of the US security/espionage infrastructure and betrayed that confidence."
you mean like the way the US security apparatus has betrayed the confidence of its own citizens?
― wmlynch, Wednesday, 28 May 2014 19:22 (nine years ago) link
dnftt
― KrafTwerk (sleeve), Wednesday, 28 May 2014 19:42 (nine years ago) link
Brian Williams interview about to start.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:00 (nine years ago) link
betraying the criminal American state is about the most awesome thing anyone can do.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:10 (nine years ago) link
it's always really hard to hear politicians speak out against snowden. it's like, obviously i don't give a fuck what you think about the guy who made your job / lying to me more difficult.
― building a desert (art), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:13 (nine years ago) link
boy he is rticulate
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:18 (nine years ago) link
articulate teoo
gah is this gonna be rebroadcast
yeah he's also had a LOT of time to think things over
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:48 (nine years ago) link
like how guys in prison for a long time often have an uncanny ability to explain their own thought processes, b/c they have a lot of practice
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:50 (nine years ago) link
Manson
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 May 2014 02:55 (nine years ago) link
this after-the-interview stuff on NBC's website is pretty bad.
i find it so weird that there are people who basically think "i mean it's fine if he wants to commit civil disobedience, but does he have to break the law to do it?"
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 03:16 (nine years ago) link
and chuck todd still looks like he takes a shit and wipes it on his face
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 03:17 (nine years ago) link
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101712444
In the wide-ranging and provocative interview, Snowden suggested that a deal could be reached with the U.S. government for him to come home, said he had tried to go through channels before leaking documents to journalists, and described his transition from enthusiastic supporter of American foreign policy, who enlisted for U.S. Army special operations training during the Iraq War, to a disillusioned intelligence worker who said he came to believe that the government took advantage of the September 11 terror attack to overreach into the private lives of all Americans.
When Williams asked, "Do you see yourself as a patriot?" Snowden answered immediately, "I do."
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 May 2014 14:10 (nine years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/05/in-nbc-interview-snowden-says-nsa-watches-our-digital-thoughts-develop/
Responding to Snowden’s comments on his reasons for staying in Russia (which was aired as an excerpt on NBC TODAY on Wednesday morning), Secretary of State John Kerry fired back: "For a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer, frankly... Edward Snowden is a coward,” Kerry told Chuck Todd on MSNBC. “He is a traitor. And he has betrayed his country… and should face the music.” Kerry continued to challenge Snowden to "man up and come back to the United States."What's more, Kerry made the case that Snowden’s leaks of classified documents revealing the extent of NSA spying programs has given valuable information to terrorists and has thrown a wrench in US counter-terrorism efforts. “If this man is a patriot, he should stay in the United States and make his case,” Kerry said. “Patriots don't go to Russia, they don't seek asylum in Cuba, they don't seek asylum in Venezuela, they fight their cause here.”
What's more, Kerry made the case that Snowden’s leaks of classified documents revealing the extent of NSA spying programs has given valuable information to terrorists and has thrown a wrench in US counter-terrorism efforts. “If this man is a patriot, he should stay in the United States and make his case,” Kerry said. “Patriots don't go to Russia, they don't seek asylum in Cuba, they don't seek asylum in Venezuela, they fight their cause here.”
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:32 (nine years ago) link
John Kerry, Frenchman, parasailor, and flipflopper.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:33 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2014/05/29/traitor-or-patriot-what-a-silly-question-after-inside-snowden/?hpid=z3
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:35 (nine years ago) link
hey guys, turns out the Dems ran Dick Cheney for prez the last THREE times. xp
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:35 (nine years ago) link
eh, that's obvious just a hook for viewers, but the interview itself is not terrible.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:37 (nine years ago) link
no, not bad at all considering the interlocutor
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:38 (nine years ago) link
hey guys, turns out the Dems ran Dick Cheney for prez the last THREE times. xp― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:35 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
omg, really? keep up with these revelatory nuggets, because there's no one else on this board as fearless in speaking truth to power. i raise a gloved fist in salute.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:38 (nine years ago) link
every time i read an ap-style article about a snowden update it contains a single-sentence paragraph along the lines of "Some think Snowden is a patriot, while others consider him a traitor."
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:38 (nine years ago) link
it's weird, i cannot even fathom anyone outside of gov't thinking he's a traitor pure and simple, but then again i don't get out much
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:39 (nine years ago) link
on MSNBC this morning Carson Daly (did you know he works for "The Today Show"? I didn't) crowed that opinions had flipped after last night's broadcast: now 61 percent or something Americans who watched think Snowden is a "hero."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:41 (nine years ago) link
a traitorous hero tho
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:42 (nine years ago) link
hero... or zero?
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:42 (nine years ago) link
are there any conspiracy theorists who think that snowden is a false-flag dude put up to it by the bushobama admin to obscure the even more terrifying truth about the world security state?
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:43 (nine years ago) link
61 percent or something Americans aren't sure which of those two guys was brian williams so
― Look at this joke I've recognised, do you recognise it as well? (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:50 (nine years ago) link
yep:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/naomi-wolf-edward-snowden-false-flag-conspiracy.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 29 May 2014 21:55 (nine years ago) link
that reminds me, in the interview he didn't say he misses his girlfriend. he kind of fucked her over IMO, although we have no idea what their relationship was about of course.
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 22:01 (nine years ago) link
Why is NBC’s framing of this issue coming down to the blindingly simple question of “traitor” or “patriot”? (“Do you view former NSA contractor Edward Snowden as a #Patriot or a #Traitor? Post your message on Twitter using the appropriate hashtag and check back here to see what others are saying,” the website urges.)
Washington Post writer expected more complexity from NBC's marketing folks. Although Chuck Todd might have framed it that way also
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 29 May 2014 22:05 (nine years ago) link
Cara_C Jun 14, 2013
It's possible. The Obama administration seems to be trying to provoke civil unrest at every turn with its outrageous unConstitutional behavior and non-stop scandals. But apparently, the sleeping giant isn't biting, probably theorizing that we still have a chance to avert the destruction of America in the next midterms.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 May 2014 22:06 (nine years ago) link
Why is NBC’s framing of this issue coming down to the blindingly simple question of “traitor” or “patriot”? (“Do you view former NSA contractor Edward Snowden as a #Patriot or a #Traitor? Post your message on Twitter using the appropriate hashtag and check back here to see what others are saying,” the website urges.)Washington Post writer expected more complexity from NBC's marketing folks. Although Chuck Todd might have framed it that way also― curmudgeon, Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― curmudgeon, Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
“Do you like NBC's framing of Brian Williams's interview with former NSA contractor Edward Snowden as a choice between #Patriot or a #Traitor? #Yes or #No. Post your message on Twitter using the appropriate hashtag and check back here to see what others are saying."
― display name changed. (amateurist), Thursday, 29 May 2014 22:08 (nine years ago) link
americans are also retarded
#sliced bread or #super satan covered in shit
― panettone for the painfully alone (mayor jingleberries), Thursday, 29 May 2014 22:39 (nine years ago) link
Important to remember it has to be one or the other, no grey areas allowed.
― ▴▲ ▴TH3CR()$BY$H()W▴▲ ▴ (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 30 May 2014 00:02 (nine years ago) link
No -- American pundits are retarded.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 May 2014 02:30 (nine years ago) link
am, shove it; i tried.
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 May 2014 02:36 (nine years ago) link
that Garry Wills book title about the press attitude toward Reagan applies exponentially now" On Bended Knee
(no one wants to be closed down, yeah? that's coming)
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 May 2014 02:53 (nine years ago) link
Mark Hertsgaard wrote it, and, yes, it's essential reading and available cheap.
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 May 2014 02:57 (nine years ago) link
mea culpa
― images of war violence and historical smoking (Dr Morbius), Friday, 30 May 2014 03:01 (nine years ago) link
There is so much info to be dug out of the lower reaches of the executive branch, where the work actually happens, that being shut out by the political parts of an administration should not be a major impediment to investigative reporting. You'd have to cultivate sources who work in the bureaucracy below the assistant secretaries.
― put 'er right in the old breadbasket (Aimless), Friday, 30 May 2014 03:02 (nine years ago) link
yeah but you don't get to be interviewed by Joe and "Mika."
― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 30 May 2014 03:11 (nine years ago) link
I keep being amazed how 99.9% of everything is about the messenger and not the message. Is it really that easy to divert everyone's attention?
― StanM, Friday, 30 May 2014 08:25 (nine years ago) link
There is so much info to be dug out of the lower reaches of the executive branch, where the work actually happens, that being shut out by the political parts of an administration should not be a major impediment to investigative reporting. You'd have to cultivate sources who work in the bureaucracy below the assistant secretaries.― put 'er right in the old breadbasket (Aimless), Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― put 'er right in the old breadbasket (Aimless), Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
feel like there are fewer and fewer journalists (with less and less time) to do this sort of reporting, and as you say fewer and fewer dollars to support their work. this seems like a top-ten impediment to improving our democracy IMO.
judging by the student newspaper here in 20 years there won't be any
― display name changed. (amateurist), Friday, 30 May 2014 08:45 (nine years ago) link
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/governments-collecting-personal-data-without-limit-says-vodafone/2014/06/06/ff0cfc1a-edb4-11e3-9b2d-114aded544be_story.html?hpid=z1
Britain’s Vodafone revealed Friday that several governments are collecting surveillance data directly from its networks without any legal review and publicly urged more safeguards against such unfettered access to the private communications of its customers.
The declarations, made by the world’s second-largest cellular carrier, show that the type of access to telecommunications networks enjoyed by the U.S. National Security Agency also occurs in other countries where legal protections almost certainly are lower. Vodafone’s networks span much of Europe and parts of Africa and Asia.
.The company said that voice, Internet and other data could be collected without any court review in “a small number” of nations
― curmudgeon, Saturday, 7 June 2014 17:18 (nine years ago) link
A
― dsb, Friday, 20 June 2014 04:17 (nine years ago) link
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-20/ex-nsa-chief-pitches-advice-on-cyber-threats-to-the-banks.html
Former NSA head Keith Alexander making big bucks now
― curmudgeon, Monday, 23 June 2014 14:32 (nine years ago) link
who could have seen this coming
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 23 June 2014 14:40 (nine years ago) link
http://pando.com/2014/07/16/tor-spooks/
― everybody loves lana del raymond (s.clover), Monday, 21 July 2014 13:19 (nine years ago) link
yeah i've always been befuddled by the detail about snowden's crypto party when his own documents seemed to suggest the NSA dgaf about the use of tor
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 21 July 2014 14:15 (nine years ago) link
Russia has granted fugitive National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden permission to remain in the country for three more years, Snowden's lawyer said Thursday, a measure that promised to further strain U.S.-Russian relations.
from Washington Post
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:28 (nine years ago) link
i wonder what snowden thinks about crimea
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:32 (nine years ago) link
Don't think he's in Russia because he thinks Russia is a better country.
― Peeking at Peak Petty (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:38 (nine years ago) link
that's not why he's there but i don't know what he does or doesn't think about russia
― Mordy, Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:40 (nine years ago) link
He probably thinks Russian behavior in Crimea is wrong, but since he can't go anywhere else and believes he can't get a fair trial here (since he was charged under the espionage act which bars certain defenses from being raised), he is there.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 7 August 2014 16:52 (nine years ago) link
when he asked putin that question about surveillance and then wrote a whole opinion piece about it afterward he seemed to be telegraphing pretty clearly 'so yeah russia is doing this too obv and by extension it sucks'
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 7 August 2014 17:06 (nine years ago) link
this is a good read:http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/
― global tetrahedron, Thursday, 14 August 2014 00:31 (nine years ago) link
It's obvious to me that Snowden is only in bed with Russia for the most practical of reasons, which is to avoid a long, harsh prison term. I don't imagine he is there to express any ideological sympathy with the Putin government. If he had better choices, he'd exercise them.
― Aimless, Thursday, 14 August 2014 02:14 (nine years ago) link
Schneier confirms something that I've always feared. The companies that built all this surveillance/hacking stuff for the NSA wanted a better return-on-investment so now everybody has this stuff.https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2014/08/quantum_technol.html
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 19 August 2014 08:42 (nine years ago) link
Laura Poitras' film on Snowden to debut at the NY Film Festival
http://www.filmlinc.com/nyff2014/blog/laura-poitras-citizenfour-edward-snowden-nsa-nyff-world-premiere
― son of a lewd monk (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 16 September 2014 22:56 (nine years ago) link
memorialized in Union Square NYC
http://www.buzzfeed.com/hayesbrown/there-is-a-nine-foot-tall-statue-of-edward-snowden-in-new-yo#1buf434
http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-10/10/13/enhanced/webdr04/enhanced-20284-1412960464-6.jpg
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 October 2014 04:54 (nine years ago) link
smarmy update from the Daily News; statue "forced to defect"
Edward Snowden, while still welcome in Red Square, got the boot Friday from Union Square.
A towering 9-foot-tall sculpture of the bespectacled Snowden was evicted from the Manhattan park Friday over its creator’s lack of a proper permit.
Artist Jim Dessicino kept the all-white statue, fashioned from gypsum, polystyrene and steel, in the park for about two hours before police chased him out.
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 October 2014 04:59 (nine years ago) link
@EdSnowdenStatue · 9h The #Snowden Statue has moved! For the rest of the weekend you can see it at Campos Community Center, 611 E. 13th St. New York, NY 10009
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 11 October 2014 05:01 (nine years ago) link
New Yorker's profile of Laura Poitras, and hourlong video interview of Snowden
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/20/holder-secrets
http://www.newyorker.com/new-yorker-festival/live-stream-edward-snowden
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 12 October 2014 14:25 (nine years ago) link
new interview of ES by The Nation:
The Nation: Say there was a national Gallup poll formulating the question like this: “Mr. Snowden has revealed gross violations of your personal liberties and rights through surveillance by the American government. The American government argues it does so to keep you safe from terrorists.” Do you think there would be a majority opinion in your favor? You’ve raised perhaps the most vital issue of our time, but for most Americans, who really are having a harder economic time than they should be having, your issue probably is not high on their list of concerns.
Snowden: OK, let me clarify. When I talk about the polling, I’m talking about the principles. It shows these officials are knowingly attempting to shift public opinion, even though they know what they say is not factual. It’s clear it’s public opinion, because elite opinion… I mean, The New York Times and The Guardian came out and said, “Hey, clemency for Snowden.” But for me, the key—and I’ve said this from the beginning: it’s not about me. I don’t care if I get clemency. I don’t care what happens to me. I don’t care if I end up in jail or Guantánamo or whatever, kicked out of a plane with two gunshots in the face. I did what I did because I believe it is the right thing to do, and I will continue to do that. However, when it comes to political engagement, I’m not a politician—I’m an engineer. I read these polls because civil-liberties organizations tell me I need to be aware of public opinion. The only reason I do these interviews—I hate talking about myself, I hate doing this stuff—is because incredibly well-meaning people, whom I respect and trust, tell me that this will help bring about positive changes. It’s not going to cause a sea change, but it will benefit the public.
From the very beginning, I said there are two tracks of reform: there’s the political and the technical. I don’t believe the political will be successful, for exactly the reasons you underlined. The issue is too abstract for average people, who have too many things going on in their lives. And we do not live in a revolutionary time. People are not prepared to contest power. We have a system of education that is really a sort of euphemism for indoctrination. It’s not designed to create critical thinkers. We have a media that goes along with the government by parroting phrases intended to provoke a certain emotional response—for example, “national security.” Everyone says “national security” to the point that we now must use the term “national security.” But it is not national security that they’re concerned with; it is state security. And that’s a key distinction. We don’t like to use the phrase “state security” in the United States because it reminds us of all the bad regimes. But it’s a key concept, because when these officials are out on TV, they’re not talking about what’s good for you. They’re not talking about what’s good for business. They’re not talking about what’s good for society. They’re talking about the protection and perpetuation of a national state system.
I’m not an anarchist. I’m not saying, “Burn it to the ground.” But I’m saying we need to be aware of it, and we need to be able to distinguish when political developments are occurring that are contrary to the public interest. And that cannot happen if we do not question the premises on which they’re founded. And that’s why I don’t think political reform is likely to succeed. [Senators] Udall and Wyden, on the intelligence committee, have been sounding the alarm, but they are a minority.
http://www.thenation.com/article/186129/snowden-exile-exclusive-interview#
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 October 2014 20:31 (nine years ago) link
i suspect he cares maybe a little about being dropped from an airplane. but even if he's playing the martyr more than a little bit, i have unending respect and admiration for this dude.
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2014 20:33 (nine years ago) link
is that katrina vanden huevos in the photo on the right?
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2014 20:34 (nine years ago) link
it is
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 October 2014 20:37 (nine years ago) link
And we do not live in a revolutionary time. People are not prepared to contest power.
I think this is a really important bit bc i don't buy his explanation that ppl aren't prepared to contest power bc of state indoctrination. states w/ a far larger totalitarian grasp on media /communication (ie actual state-owned media, internet censorship) still seem to be living in a more 'revolutionary time' than we are in the US, cf egypt, iran, ukraine, hong kong?, idk i'm sure there are lots of examples of this. nb that i do accept the kind of zizekian logic that the US is even more totalitarian bc our democracy allows the illusion of change and the free press allow the illusion of free speech while dictatorships are self-evidently fascist. on the other hand tho - he admitted recently in the guardian that the form is important bc you can only express the longing for full freedom if you have the empty shell available to show you what you're missing. also nb it could be Ferguson and Occupy and other things are examples of a revolutionary spirit that exists in the US (tho they seem limited / this could just be a consequence of a compliant media). idk tho. it seems to me like in areas like speech and media the US is very free and i suspect revolutionary spirits aren't so high here bc even w/ dire economic circumstances for many ppl, standard of living has remained historically high? like maybe things aren't bad enough and really it is material conditions that inspire revolutions - not knowledge/education/ideology. if this is true - it really doesn't matter how many drones the US drops on other countries, or how many phone conversations they monitor, or even how much political dissent they suppress. as long as they deliver a certain level of quality of life the majority of ppl will support the government.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 October 2014 20:39 (nine years ago) link
M, he has praise for OWS's effect on the polity earlier in this interview.
At this time, I would agree that you'd only get revolutionary fervor from Americans if you took away their smartphones. Your last two sentences seem accurate to me.
You really are gonna be thrilled at the movie-star turn of your hero Greenwald in Citizenfour.
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 October 2014 20:44 (nine years ago) link
i'll watch it when it comes to hbo
― Mordy, Monday, 27 October 2014 20:50 (nine years ago) link
Revolution does not always have to be weapons and warfare; it’s also about revolutionary ideas. It’s about the principles that we hold to be representative of the kind of world we want to live in. A given order may at any given time fail to represent those values, even work against those values. I think that’s the dynamic we’re seeing today. We have these traditional political parties that are less and less responsive to the needs of ordinary people, so people are in search of their own values. If the government or the parties won’t address our needs, we will. It’s about direct action, even civil disobedience. But then the state says: “Well, in order for it to be legitimate civil disobedience, you have to follow these rules.” They put us in “free-speech zones”; they say you can only do it at this time, and in this way, and you can’t interrupt the functioning of the government. They limit the impact that civil disobedience can achieve. We have to remember that civil disobedience must be disobedience if it’s to be effective. If we simply follow the rules that a state imposes upon us when that state is acting contrary to the public interest, we’re not actually improving anything. We’re not changing anything.
― this horrible, rotten slog to rigor mortis (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 October 2014 21:08 (nine years ago) link
yeah, that's key. i don't think most people in america get that. it reminds me of the U of California administrators who were like "civil disobedience is fine as long as nobody breaks the law"
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2014 21:17 (nine years ago) link
"you're allowed to have your voices heard as long as nobody in a position of power actually has to listen to them"
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2014 21:18 (nine years ago) link
tho that's bc if ppl privilege the rule of law then they're less willing to see it undermined for the sake of change. if things are bad enough, or the law is worthless enough, then violating it becomes easier.
― Mordy, Monday, 27 October 2014 21:18 (nine years ago) link
sure but the cognitive dissonance of people supporting "civil disobedience" but only if it obeys the law is notable
― I dunno. (amateurist), Monday, 27 October 2014 22:18 (nine years ago) link
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/fbis-suicide-letter-dr-martin-luther-king-jr-and-dangers-unchecked-surveillance
― I dunno. (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 November 2014 21:42 (nine years ago) link
so there's something called the USA Freedom Act (uh oh), a "surveillance fix" that's gonna get a lame-duck vote, and this guy says it's crap.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2014/11/12/why-i-dont-support-usa-freedom-act/
― things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 November 2014 22:23 (nine years ago) link
When black people do stuff, when they have a complaint, after all this time, all of this history, it still does not qualify as "civil disobedience". It's disorder, violence - plain disobedience. This attitude toward poor blacks is very real and the powers that be still justify this regard based on crime rates.
I don't think comfortable folks realize how easy it is to abuse and disrespect poor black people, I don't think they know how these communities function. I am shocked at what I have read online about Ferguson.
Then again, who ever said people respected civil rights activists? When did that happen? I think we comfortable people get too much magical thinking from television.
― Threat Assessment Division (I M Losted), Friday, 14 November 2014 00:20 (nine years ago) link
Amnesty International has released a program that can spot spying software used by governments to monitor activists and political opponents
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-30115679
― things lose meaning over time (Dr Morbius), Friday, 21 November 2014 21:24 (nine years ago) link
nice
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 26 November 2014 16:12 (nine years ago) link
http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/23/7272157/regin-malware-has-secretly-spied-on-computers-for-years
― celfie tucker 48 (s.clover), Wednesday, 26 November 2014 22:09 (nine years ago) link
this is cool
https://www.iab.org/2014/11/14/iab-statement-on-internet-confidentiality/
The IAB urges protocol designers to design for confidential operation by default. We strongly encourage developers to include encryption in their implementations, and to make them encrypted by default. We similarly encourage network and service operators to deploy encryption where it is not yet deployed, and we urge firewall policy administrators to permit encrypted traffic.We believe that each of these changes will help restore the trust users must have in the Internet, and foster development of new approaches which allow us to move to an Internet where traffic is confidential by default.
We believe that each of these changes will help restore the trust users must have in the Internet, and foster development of new approaches which allow us to move to an Internet where traffic is confidential by default.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 4 December 2014 06:44 (nine years ago) link
backdoor men
The NSA's collection programs are ostensibly targeted at foreigners, but in August the Guardian revealed a secret rule change allowing NSA analysts to search for Americans' details within the databases.
Now, in a letter to Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat on the intelligence committee, the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, has confirmed the use of this legal authority to search for data related to “US persons”.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/01/nsa-surveillance-loophole-americans-data
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 4 February 2015 20:00 (nine years ago) link
Great story from Ars: http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/02/how-omnipotent-hackers-tied-to-the-nsa-hid-for-14-years-and-were-found-at-last/
― schwantz, Tuesday, 17 February 2015 16:24 (nine years ago) link
Jesus
― schwantz, Thursday, 19 February 2015 21:22 (nine years ago) link
feel like i am getting closer and closer to that shotgun canned food bunker
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 20 February 2015 00:03 (nine years ago) link
i thought stuxnet was fascinating and cool even if it was unnerving--this 'equation group' stuff is legit petrifying though
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 20 February 2015 17:42 (nine years ago) link
Man, I remember when talking about Echelon and NSA/GCHQ super teamups 20 years ago was such a blank stare contest in the para-political/conspiracy theory crowd. Who cares, the Cold War is over. Let's all go camp out at Area 51. We're the good guys, right?
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 23 February 2015 19:39 (nine years ago) link
It was all an elaborate plot to win an oscar
― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Monday, 23 February 2015 23:24 (nine years ago) link
just
literally intercepting hardware in the mail, adding uneraseable invisible malware, and putting it back in the mail without evidence of tampering
that stuxnet and flame were just forks of what these people can do
fucking mind boggling
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 14:20 (nine years ago) link
John Carlin, the assistant attorney general for national security, told a cybersecurity conference in Washington on Monday that officials could try to blunt ISIS’s violent PR operation by essentially trying propagandists as terrorists. He suggested the Justice Department could bring prosecutions under the law against providing material support to a terrorist organization. His remarks were believed to be the first time a U.S. official has ever said that people who assist ISIS with online media could face criminal prosecution.
Carlin was asked at the conference whether he would “consider criminal charges” against people who are “proliferating ISIS social media.” His answer: “Yes. You need to look at the particular facts and evidence.” But Carlin noted that the United States could use the material support law to prosecute “technical expertise” to a designated terrorist organization. And spreading the word for ISIS online could count as such expertise....
NSA Director Adm. Michael Rogers said he agreed with public statements by FBI Director James Comey that the use of encryption, particularly on popular products like the iPhone 6, put the government at risk of not being able to monitor terrorists and spies. Rogers said lawmakers should come up with a solution for ensuring government access to encrypted communications, a plan that many technologists and civil libertarians have decried as a “backdoor” to spy on people around the world.
In a tense exchange, Alex Stamos, the chief information security officer for Yahoo, asked Rogers whether what he was really advocating was “building defects” into encryption technology.
“That would be your characterization,” Rogers replied, to nervous laughter from the audience....
Stamos asked, “If we’re going to build defects, backdoors, or golden master keys for the U.S. government, do you believe we should do so—we have about 1.3 billion users around the world—should we do so for the Chinese government, the Russian government, the Saudi Arabian government, the Israeli government, the French government? Which of those countries should we give backdoors to?”
“The way you framed the question isn’t designed to elicit a response,” Rogers said.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/23/justice-department-we-ll-go-after-isis-twitter-army.html
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 February 2015 20:12 (nine years ago) link
friend of mine does a/v at ^^ this place and says there was audible uncomfortable-shifting-in-chairs during this exchange
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 20:27 (nine years ago) link
btw this was in the snowden/greenwald/poitras Reddit AMA after the oscars
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-ovezEUAAAK9mm.png
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 24 February 2015 20:36 (nine years ago) link
that + the password scene in Citizenfour suggests that Oliver Stone should've cast Steve Carell as GG.
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 24 February 2015 20:39 (nine years ago) link
Was thinking Jeremy Piven for GG myself.
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 25 February 2015 06:26 (nine years ago) link
"Why is your agency above the law, sir?…Why can you lie to the Senate about mass surveillance presuming the entire globe to be subject to pervasive collection, twisting the meaning of the terms in violations of the statutes in the Constitution restraining your agency?
Why are you above the law for perjury and why is the NSA above the law for mass surveillance, even violating the contours that the authors of the Patriot Act intended to authorize in 2001?…[A]nd Senators, why won’t you do your job? You’re charged with oversight of these officials."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN2973g0QUw#t=19
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2015/02/26/after-hearing-capitol-police-arrest-lawyer-for-shouting-question-at-clapper-about-nsa-surveillance/
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 February 2015 05:11 (nine years ago) link
buttar fuckin rules
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 27 February 2015 05:53 (nine years ago) link
― the plight of y0landa (forksclovetofu), Friday, 27 February 2015 06:54 (nine years ago) link
Researchers working with the Central Intelligence Agency have conducted a multi-year, sustained effort to break the security of Apple’s iPhones and iPads, according to top-secret documents obtained by The Intercept.
The security researchers presented their latest tactics and achievements at a secret annual gathering, called the “Jamboree,” where attendees discussed strategies for exploiting security flaws in household and commercial electronics. The conferences have spanned nearly a decade, with the first CIA-sponsored meeting taking place a year before the first iPhone was released.
By targeting essential security keys used to encrypt data stored on Apple’s devices, the researchers have sought to thwart the company’s attempts to provide mobile security to hundreds of millions of Apple customers across the globe. Studying both “physical” and “non-invasive” techniques, U.S. government-sponsored research has been aimed at discovering ways to decrypt and ultimately penetrate Apple’s encrypted firmware. This could enable spies to plant malicious code on Apple devices and seek out potential vulnerabilities in other parts of the iPhone and iPad currently masked by encryption.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/10/ispy-cia-campaign-steal-apples-secrets/
― touch of a love-starved cobra (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 10 March 2015 14:00 (nine years ago) link
Wikimedia files suit against NSA
http://time.com/3738697/wikimedia-nsa-upstream-surveillance/
― franklin, Tuesday, 10 March 2015 15:06 (nine years ago) link
The Obama administration set a record again for censoring government files or outright denying access to them last year under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act, according to a new analysis of federal data by The Associated Press.
The government took longer to turn over files when it provided any, said more regularly that it couldn't find documents and refused a record number of times to turn over files quickly that might be especially newsworthy.
It also acknowledged in nearly 1 in 3 cases that its initial decisions to withhold or censor records were improper under the law — but only when it was challenged.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ab029d7c625149348143a51ff61175c6/us-sets-new-record-denying-censoring-government-files
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 19 March 2015 11:04 (nine years ago) link
as usual, "most transparent"
― drash, Thursday, 19 March 2015 11:50 (nine years ago) link
what the ████ is this ████████
― Infostealer.Steamfishi (am0n), Thursday, 19 March 2015 17:27 (nine years ago) link
█ █ █ █ █ █ █
― Maybe in 100 years someone will say damn Dawn was dope. (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 19 March 2015 18:35 (nine years ago) link
our corporate and spook overlords: Working Together
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/01/nsa-corporate-america-push-broad-cyber-surveillance-legislation/
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 April 2015 18:31 (nine years ago) link
... except for any actual software / internet companies. Silicon Valley spends a fair bit on lobbying now, will be interesting/terrifying to see who wins.
― the most painstaking, humorless people in the world (lukas), Thursday, 2 April 2015 19:40 (nine years ago) link
fun in Fort Greene Park
http://mashable.com/2015/04/07/edward-snowden-hologram-statue-brooklyn/
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 April 2015 17:36 (nine years ago) link
oh, Clapper!
http://thehill.com/policy/technology/241508-spy-head-had-absolutely-forgotten-about-nsa-program
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 10 May 2015 13:37 (eight years ago) link
i guess for a few hours at least, the government isn't collecting our metadata
― Nhex, Monday, 1 June 2015 13:53 (eight years ago) link
let's plot something
― Is It Any Wonder I'm Not the (President Keyes), Monday, 1 June 2015 14:07 (eight years ago) link
oh, naivete; the Zombie Patriot Act goes on.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/31/zombie-patriot-act-will-keep-u-s-spying-even-if-the-original-dies.html
I'm still irked that people don't remember that USA PATRIOT Act is an acronym.
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 June 2015 14:14 (eight years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym#Contrived_acronyms
― Mordy, Monday, 1 June 2015 15:31 (eight years ago) link
Pierce:
Let me say for the record that, because I am not five-years-old, I do not believe for a moment that the NSA has stopped collecting that data while Mitch McConnell tries to tease a vote out of his unruly caucus, nor do I believe for a moment that it will cease to do so if and when the compromise passes. The NSA's messianic delusions about its role in the world, which is something it has in common with the rest of the heroes of our intelligence community, will sustain it through these minor eruptions of actual democracy.
The one ray of hope to come out of the windbaggery yesterday is the fact that, for the first time since the attacks of 9/11, the national legislature came out from under the bed and confronted, however meekly, the idea that in the freedom-vs.-security debate, the sides ought to be at equal strength. For this, we have to thank Senator Aqua Buddha, who forced the issue. His performance was choppy and, occasionally, incoherent. The blog's Five Minute Rule was in effect throughout his presentation. For example, he found himself consistently incapable of pronouncing "Tsarnaev," and he botched (for his own rhetorical purposes) James Madison's famous quote from Federalist 51...
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a35380/rand-paul-patriot-act/
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 1 June 2015 15:34 (eight years ago) link
As Washington weighs new cybersecurity steps amid a public backlash over mass surveillance, U.S. tech companies warned President Barack Obama not to weaken increasingly sophisticated encryption systems designed to protect consumers' privacy.
In a strongly worded letter to Obama on Monday, two industry associations for major software and hardware companies said, "We are opposed to any policy actions or measures that would undermine encryption as an available and effective tool."
The Information Technology Industry Council and the Software and Information Industry Association, representing tech giants, including Apple Inc, Google Inc, Facebook Inc, IBM and Microsoft Corp, fired the latest salvo in what is shaping up to be a long fight over government access into smart phones and other digital devices.
Obama administration officials, led by the FBI, have pushed the companies to find ways to let law enforcement bypass encryption to investigate illegal activities, including terrorism threats, but not weaken it so that criminals and computer hackers could penetrate the defenses.
So far, however, the White House has not spelled out specific regulatory or legislative steps it might seek.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/09/us-cybersecurity-usa-encryption-idUSKBN0OP09R20150609
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 June 2015 03:28 (eight years ago) link
find ways to let law enforcement bypass encryption to investigate illegal activities, including terrorism threats, but not weaken it so that criminals and computer hackers could penetrate the defenses
as anyone with any knowledge of information security will tell you, this is literally impossible
― jennifer islam (silby), Thursday, 11 June 2015 03:55 (eight years ago) link
A digital network that would only allow the pure of heart to access its records, employing safeguards to restrict potential security breaches by Hacktivists and Vagabonds.
― tender is the late-night daypart (schlump), Thursday, 11 June 2015 04:29 (eight years ago) link
Obama has built quite a base by promising the literally impossible and doing what he wants
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 June 2015 11:11 (eight years ago) link
Meanwhile: British spies removed from operations after Russia and China crack codes to leaked Snowden files
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 June 2015 03:15 (eight years ago) link
(whether or not that story is even valid is entirely up to you)
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 June 2015 06:06 (eight years ago) link
seems it isn't, on evidence beyond "Murdoch-owned"
http://blog.erratasec.com/2015/06/how-we-really-know-sunday-times-story.html#.VX4WqtVVhBc
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/06/14/sunday-times-report-snowden-files-journalism-worst-also-filled-falsehoods/
― the increasing costive borborygmi (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 June 2015 07:09 (eight years ago) link
Summary of XKEYSCORE so far: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/01/nsas-google-worlds-private-communications/
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 2 July 2015 01:21 (eight years ago) link
Not only does the document-leaker in Fort Leavenworth prison face limits on what she can read, but the banned books are often literary classics.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/08/21/chelsea-mannings-banned-book-list-shockingly-long-dimanno.html
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 22 August 2015 16:56 (eight years ago) link
hey Brits
The mass surveillance operation — code-named KARMA POLICE — was launched by British spies about seven years ago without any public debate or scrutiny. It was just one part of a giant global Internet spying apparatus built by the United Kingdom’s electronic eavesdropping agency, Government Communications Headquarters, or GCHQ.
The revelations about the scope of the British agency’s surveillance are contained in documents obtained by The Intercept from National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden. Previous reports based on the leaked files have exposed how GCHQ taps into Internet cables to monitor communications on a vast scale, but many details about what happens to the data after it has been vacuumed up have remained unclear.
Amid a renewed push from the U.K. government for more surveillance powers, more than two dozen documents being disclosed today by The Intercept reveal for the first time several major strands of GCHQ’s existing electronic eavesdropping capabilities.
One system builds profiles showing people’s web browsing histories. Another analyzes instant messenger communications, emails, Skype calls, text messages, cell phone locations, and social media interactions. Separate programs were built to keep tabs on “suspicious” Google searches and usage of Google Maps.
https://theintercept.com/2015/09/25/gchq-radio-porn-spies-track-web-users-online-identities/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 25 September 2015 15:32 (eight years ago) link
"According to Snowden's lawyer, Ben Wizner of the ACLU, @Snowden himself will be controlling the account."
https://theintercept.com/2015/09/29/edward-snowden-twitter-snowden/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 September 2015 17:28 (eight years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3r51QI4Ctw
― where the sterls have no name (s.clover), Thursday, 1 October 2015 01:27 (eight years ago) link
this is the best thing which has ever occurred
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 1 October 2015 13:45 (eight years ago) link
All morning I've been singing "and there won't be Snowden in Africa this Christmas ..."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 October 2015 14:29 (eight years ago) link
So i rewatched Citizenfour, and i think it's Greenwald in either the David Carr interview or the outtakes on the DVD who points out that we now prefer to say PRIVACY for what we invariably used to refer to as LIBERTY.
So if we no longer "should have any expectation of privacy/liberty," as DJP has often suggested, what is the putative organizing principle of the country? I know we've been lying to ourselves about all kinds of shit for 239 years, but one needs a good cover story for a national credo. What is the Latin for "Retweeting Taylor Swift"?
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:01 (eight years ago) link
"pecuniam tuam semper habe"
― i made a scope for my laser musket out of some (forksclovetofu), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:04 (eight years ago) link
What's another word for pirate treasure ?
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:05 (eight years ago) link
revenueoftheClintonFoundation
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:07 (eight years ago) link
A constitution of "With privacy and justice for all" sure would make things different.
Also, turns out Snowden likes Harvey Danger.
― my harp and me (Eazy), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:21 (eight years ago) link
"Paranoia, paranoia / Everybody's coming to get me"
― my harp and me (Eazy), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:41 (eight years ago) link
i'm going underground with the moles digging holes
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Friday, 13 November 2015 20:55 (eight years ago) link
wow I'm glad I wasn't around for this thread.
I don't think we no longer "should have any expectation of privacy/liberty," FWIW my colleagues and I spend a LOT of time on privacy (liberty) protections and we serve as a counterweight in a lot of policy discussions about what cops/spies want vs. what citizens are entitled to. I think that after 9/11 when Cheney told DIRNSA and DNI "whatever it takes" we swung the pendulum back out towards Alien and Sedition Act territory, on bogus and shortsighted executive statutory flim flam, and now we're swinging back.
I think that the administration backed down from the "golden key" stuff that DHS and FBI and NSA leadership were publicly asking for from silicon valley types is a pretty good indicator that we're moving in a direction to restore a lot of what was lost in the fire.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 November 2015 01:25 (eight years ago) link
(And maybe then some. And maybe even past the point where it's a good idea and where it really does make some legitimate (...to taste) law enforcement and intelligence activities impossible)
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 November 2015 01:27 (eight years ago) link
Tombot, you kinda gotta speak to what it is you and your colleagues do; it's been a while.
― i made a scope for my laser musket out of some (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 14 November 2015 01:52 (eight years ago) link
www.us-cert.gov
the "about us" page needs an update
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 November 2015 02:21 (eight years ago) link
I am pretty sensitive to having my ramblings here tied back to my professional self. but everything is going to bite all of us in the pants one day, so
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 November 2015 02:23 (eight years ago) link
one concrete example - I get CC'd on email notices every time one of our network signatures for catching malware, etc. unintentionally captures personal data, and the analysts have to go clean it up. I can also say that having spent time inside multiple "3 letter agencies" that this place has more required training on handling sensitive information than anywhere else, and that's not the classified stuff - everybody gets trained on handling that - it's about protected private citizen and company information, which we are, as above, incredibly concerned with. the whole business is about trust.
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 14 November 2015 02:34 (eight years ago) link
it's Metadon't Day
https://theintercept.com/2015/11/28/snowden-effect-in-action-nsa-authority-to-collect-bulk-phone-metadata-expires/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 November 2015 17:09 (eight years ago) link
Some Senate Republicans, led by Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas and 2016 presidential candidate Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida, tried to delay the program’s official end this month in the wake of the Paris terrorist attacks. But despite support from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), the effort got no traction in Congress.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2015/11/nsa-bulk-phone-snooping-program-shuts-down-216228#ixzz3t0Ek8s14
― curmudgeon, Monday, 30 November 2015 18:59 (eight years ago) link
Clinton, the Democratic presidential frontrunner, gave a talk at the Brookings Institution where she urged tech companies to deny ISIS “online space,” and waved away concerns about First Amendment issues.
“We’re going to have to have more support from our friends in the technology world to deny online space. Just as we have to destroy [ISIS’s] would-be caliphate, we have to deny them online space,” she said.
“And this is complicated. You’re going to hear all of the usual complaints, you know, freedom of speech, et cetera. But if we truly are in a war against terrorism and we are truly looking for ways to shut off their funding, shut off the flow of foreign fighters, then we’ve got to shut off their means of communicating. It’s more complicated with some of what they do on encrypted apps, and I’m well aware of that, and that requires even more thinking about how to do it.”
A “senior administration official” told Reuters that the White House intends to talk to tech companies in the coming days about developing a “clearer understanding of when we believe social media is being used actively and operationally to promote terrorism.” Major social media sites are already deeply engaged in combating online propaganda and recruitment by Islamic militants.
https://theintercept.com/2015/12/07/obama-hints-at-renewed-pressure-on-encryption-clinton-waves-off-first-amendment/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Monday, 7 December 2015 19:50 (eight years ago) link
you know, freedom of speech, et cetera
― Eugene Goostman (forksclovetofu), Monday, 7 December 2015 19:59 (eight years ago) link
Ugh.
― schwantz, Monday, 7 December 2015 21:33 (eight years ago) link
https://alexcabal.com/creating-the-perfect-gpg-keypair/
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 13 December 2015 20:24 (eight years ago) link
please encrypt your emails to me
If you're new to PGP, please don't follow that advice, stick with the defaults.
― chihuahuau, Sunday, 13 December 2015 21:14 (eight years ago) link
Everyone always thinks I'm joking about $10,000-a-night hookers,incidentally. I'm not. If someone were to give me a $100,000 budget toacquire a secret worth $1,000,000, hiring a high-class call girl for twoweeks would be a *damned* tempting attack vector. People spend so muchtime obsessing over technical minutiae of crypto, and so little timerealizing the weakest part of the system is always the human being... sowhy not hire an expert in manipulating human beings?
love these guys
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Sunday, 13 December 2015 22:41 (eight years ago) link
Cyberhawk, Yellowstone, Blackfin, Maximus, Cyclone, and Spartacus!
In the catalogue, each device is listed with guidelines about how its use must be approved; the answer is usually via the “Ground Force Commander” or under one of two titles in the U.S. code governing military and intelligence operations, including covert action.
But domestically the devices have been used in a way that violates the constitutional rights of citizens, including the Fourth Amendment prohibition on illegal search and seizure, critics like Lynch say. They have regularly been used without warrants, or with warrants that critics call overly broad. Judges and civil liberties groups alike have complained that the devices are used without full disclosure of how they work, even within court proceedings.
“Every time police drive the streets with a Stingray, these dragnet devices can identify and locate dozens or hundreds of innocent bystanders’ phones,” said Nathan Wessler, a staff attorney with the Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project of the American Civil Liberties Union.
https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/a-secret-catalogue-of-government-gear-for-spying-on-your-cellphone/
― skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 December 2015 20:44 (eight years ago) link
Pretty sure those are all members of MASKhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/MASK_Logo.JPG
― Does that make you mutter, under your breath, “Damn”? (forksclovetofu), Friday, 18 December 2015 03:20 (eight years ago) link
Chris Christie accused Cruz of opposing the NSA’s bulk collection of metadata for political, not philosophical, reasons. “He went for the easy political vote at a time when it looked like it was a popular thing to do,” the New Jersey governor said on Morning Joe. “With all those dead Parisians, it doesn’t look so popular!”
oy veh
― curmudgeon, Friday, 18 December 2015 15:47 (eight years ago) link
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/12/consorting-with-foreign-government-a-scandal-too.html
There's a lot we don't know beneath The Wall Street Journal's report today that the National Security Agency picked up intelligence on meetings with U.S. members of Congress and domestic political groups while spying on the Israeli government after credible reports (subsequently validated by the surveillance) that the Israelis were collecting and leaking intelligence on the sensitive U.S.-Iran nuclear talks.
The story has many dimensions. But, so far, virtually all of the reaction involves two questions: (1) Should the U.S. be spying on our ally Israel? (This was raised immediately if cautiously by Marco Rubio, who's in a bit of a quandary because he's normally a fan of surveillance.) And (2) should the Executive branch be spying, even incidentally, on the Legislative branch? (Former House Intelligence Committee chairman Peter Hoekstra called for an investigation of this possibility and for indictments if it turned out to be true.) These are both important and complex issues. But there should be a third question raised as well: Should members of Congress be consorting with agents of a foreign government to thwart U.S. diplomacy?
who's zoomin' who?
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 31 December 2015 14:54 (eight years ago) link
eh. obv i am a biased commentator here but ultimately isn't he arguing that congress should not meet w/ foreign leaders when they disagree w/ the president's policy? that means that, eg, mccain should not have had a relationship w/ saakashvili's gov during the time that he was advising a US military response to Russia encroachment on Georgia while Bush's policy was not military? like do we really believe that there's no place for members of congress to a) 'consort' with foreign leaders and b) disagree w/ the POTUS at the same time? seems both impossible + undesirable and really only an issue here bc a) omg israel and b) don't look but the WH just spied on congress.
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 December 2015 15:03 (eight years ago) link
like do we really believe that there's no place for members of congress to a) 'consort' with foreign leaders
Dems have gotten grief for this too, from Pelosi on back through the Reagan years, on issues from Central America to Iran...
Here the Republicans were arguably trying to undermine ongoing treaty negotiations and not just disagreeing with the President, Commander in Chief...I think Kilgore is arguing that there's no place for members of Congress to do that.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 31 December 2015 15:28 (eight years ago) link
i agree that both parties have done this over the years - it seems like a consequence of how we've split foreign affairs power between the executive and legislative branches and probably a bit silly to bemoan. until it's illegal for congress to try to undermine the executive branch's diplomacy this kind of thing will continue to happen - esp when the branches are split by party.
― Mordy, Thursday, 31 December 2015 15:33 (eight years ago) link
http://articles.philly.com/1987-11-13/news/26175480_1_house-speaker-jim-wright-wright-and-ortega-wright-ortega
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 31 December 2015 15:36 (eight years ago) link
http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/drafts/nistir-8105/nistir_8105_draft.pdf
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:10 (eight years ago) link
which one is you
― petulant dick master (silby), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:12 (eight years ago) link
This certainly confirms the hunches many people had about the NSA's announcement that it was abandoning ECC.
That's got to be a historically short lifespan for a technique - has anything else in the history of secret codes been brought into wide application and then rendered essentially useless within a little over a decade? I mean this is a projection, not a guarantee that quantum computing has been advanced enough to consistently and affordably crack everything, but one assumes NIST and their colleagues across the way have a pretty good handle on where stuff is going to be in the next few years.
I guess there were several systems introduced just prior to or during WW2 that became completely obsolete shortly thereafter.
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:26 (eight years ago) link
Recently, some experiments using ion traps and superconducting circuits have demonstrated universal sets of quantum gates that are nominally below the highest theoretical fault-tolerance thresholds (around 1%) [9, 10]. This is a significant milestone, which has spurred increased investment from both government and industry. However, it is clear that substantial long-term efforts are needed to move from present day laboratory demonstrations involving one to ten qubits up to large-scale quantum computers involving thousands of logical qubits encoded in perhaps hundreds of thousands of physical qubits.
Note lack of even a ballpark guess as to how many years "substantial long-term efforts" will actually take. Yeesh.
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:30 (eight years ago) link
When standards for quantum-resistant public key cryptography become available, NIST will reassess the imminence of the threat of quantum computers to existing standards, and may decide to deprecate or withdraw the affected standards thereafter as a result. Agencies should therefore be prepared to transition away from these algorithms as early as 10 years from now. As the replacements for currently standardized public-key algorithms are not yet ready, a focus on maintaining crypto agility is imperative.
Please be prepared to completely ditch all implementations of ECC and RSA in a hot minute. Lol, mobile.
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:35 (eight years ago) link
I think a cancer therapy based on Crispr will be approved by the FDA before a high-scale quantum computer breaks an RSA key. Like that's the side of that bet I would take.
― petulant dick master (silby), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:54 (eight years ago) link
Apparently most of the world agrees with you because I haven't heard of any VC cash being thrown around at quantum-resistant crypto startups, like, at all
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 01:57 (eight years ago) link
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2702948-Problem-Book-Redacted.html#document/p1
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 5 February 2016 04:27 (eight years ago) link
AUSCANNZUKUS is still my favorite all-caps word ever. I love that my phone knows it.
― i was hoping the shitlords would not take this quietly (El Tomboto), Friday, 5 February 2016 13:51 (eight years ago) link
so there's this:
Robert Cattanach, a cybersecurity attorney and former Department of Justice special counsel to the secretary of the Navy, said the government's request leaves Apple in a difficult position as the company is now thrust into the center of the battle to balance privacy needs against counterterrorism efforts.
"The FBI's request to a U.S. Magistrate for an order requiring Apple to disable the auto-wipe feature after 10 unsuccessful attempts represents the next step in the journey to find the holy grail of back door unencryption, and the next salvo in the ever-escalating battle between law enforcement and tech companies," Cattanach said.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-apple-san-bernardino-security-20160217-story.html
@Snowden 6h6 hours agoThis is the most important tech case in a decade. Silence means @google picked a side, but it's not the public's.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 February 2016 22:29 (eight years ago) link
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 18 February 2016 17:31 (eight years ago) link
@ggreenwald Claim Apple is doing this "only" for PR benefit is bizarre: PR in refusing FBI's demand to open phone of Muslim who mass-murdered Americans?
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 February 2016 15:44 (eight years ago) link
i wonder how awkward the pro-Apple chants will be here
Rally in New York, NY! Apple is right. No government backdoor in our iPhones!Tuesday February 23 2016 • 5:30 pmApple Store • 767 5th Avenue @60th Street
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 February 2016 01:58 (eight years ago) link
well, dayum, some guvmint lies don't last very long, now do they?
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/24/467943526/apple-has-gotten-federal-orders-to-unlock-at-least-13-devices
And in Noo Yawk, Cy Vance and Bill Bratton called a press conference to mention that they have 175 devices they want to unlock!
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 25 February 2016 06:05 (eight years ago) link
http://www.wired.com/2016/03/government-error-just-revealed-snowden-target-lavabit-case/
― StanM, Sunday, 20 March 2016 12:54 (eight years ago) link
I'm surprised nobody on this thread ever brought up Signal. https://whispersystems.org/
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 20 March 2016 14:45 (eight years ago) link
Jonathan Ździarski@JZdziarskiIt took just over a month after FBI testified under oath that they couldn’t access a locked iPhone… to access a locked iPhone.
Edward Snowden@SnowdenRemember when government officials used to lose their jobs for false testimony? First Clapper, now Comey.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 29 March 2016 11:48 (eight years ago) link
@markknollerOn @HillaryClinton handling of e-mail, "there's classified and there's classified," says Pres Obama.
@Snowden If only I had known.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, 11 April 2016 12:50 (eight years ago) link
well well
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/30/politics/axe-files-axelrod-eric-holder/index.html
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 May 2016 14:15 (seven years ago) link
yeah that's a pretty reasonable middle-of-the-road stance that pretty much any of us would take
― El Tomboto, Monday, 30 May 2016 14:28 (seven years ago) link
once we're out of the Cabinet.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 May 2016 16:33 (seven years ago) link
There is a certain degree of self-censorship that takes place when you're working in the organs of the institution, just like any job.
― El Tomboto, Monday, 30 May 2016 16:42 (seven years ago) link
Yep, that's why I hate all these people. And the employed.
― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 31 May 2016 02:09 (seven years ago) link
http://i.imgur.com/R8FyeTU.jpg
― 龜, Tuesday, 19 July 2016 13:18 (seven years ago) link
Edward Snowden @Snowden
How Washington works: The day before a movie premieres about them violating everyone's rights, they meet in secret.
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/12/house-intelligence-committee-to-discuss-classified-report-on-snowden-ahead-of-movie-launch/
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 September 2016 03:36 (seven years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/op-ed-why-president-obama-wont-and-shouldnt-pardon-snowden/
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Saturday, 17 September 2016 17:58 (seven years ago) link
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/18/washpost-makes-history-first-paper-to-call-for-prosecution-of-its-own-source-after-accepting-pulitzer/
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 18 September 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
x-post- Jack Goldsmith, who wrote the arstechnica.com opinion piece, is at the right-wing Hoover Institute and was an assistant AG in the Bush admin.
― curmudgeon, Sunday, 18 September 2016 17:25 (seven years ago) link
yes, hence E.S. shouldn't "expect a pardon" from the executive opposition in a war.
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 18 September 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
gah fuck the post
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 18 September 2016 17:34 (seven years ago) link
The mismatch between Fred Hiatt's ed board stances and the tenor of WaPo's reporting has always been and continues to be baffling and infuriating.
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Sunday, 18 September 2016 17:37 (seven years ago) link
Anything on the arguments in the Ars op-ed, or just "fuck that guy?"
None of you actually see the problems with the "pardon Snowden" idea, do you.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Sunday, 18 September 2016 18:19 (seven years ago) link
no, i do, encouraging similar thefts?
burn baby burn
also, fuck that guy
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 18 September 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
in any case, there won't be a pardon
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 18 September 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
not really. feel free to make a case for there being the problems rather than just saying they are there.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 18 September 2016 20:04 (seven years ago) link
This is IMHO the important part of the op-ed that I linked to:
Another reason why Snowden won’t and shouldn’t be pardoned for his actions is that doing so would have a demoralizing effect on the thousands of intelligence community personnel who devote (and in some cases risk) their lives to US national security, who follow the rules laid down by Congress and the president, whose work was diminished, and whose jobs were made much harder as a result of Snowden’s non-US related disclosures. I disagree with Tim that “a pardon sets no precedent and so creates no incentives.”Pardoning the perpetrator of the most damaging leak by far in American history would send a clear signal of approval for what Snowden did and a clear signal about a lack of seriousness on the part of the government about its truly most important secrets. Those signals would affect the attitude of everyone in the intelligence community about the value of our most important secrets and would have a terrible impact on the government’s already-difficult ability to keep such secrets. In saying this, I do not detract from the importance of the greater transparency that Snowden brought to the intelligence community. That community was self-defeatingly secretive and insular and terrible at explaining what it was doing and why. But to say that it needed to open up a great deal, especially about the extent of and legal bases of its domestic operations, is not to say the government should countenance disclosure of details about its lawful electronic intelligence operations abroad against non-US citizens, which is what the pardon Snowden seeks would do.
Pardoning the perpetrator of the most damaging leak by far in American history would send a clear signal of approval for what Snowden did and a clear signal about a lack of seriousness on the part of the government about its truly most important secrets. Those signals would affect the attitude of everyone in the intelligence community about the value of our most important secrets and would have a terrible impact on the government’s already-difficult ability to keep such secrets. In saying this, I do not detract from the importance of the greater transparency that Snowden brought to the intelligence community. That community was self-defeatingly secretive and insular and terrible at explaining what it was doing and why. But to say that it needed to open up a great deal, especially about the extent of and legal bases of its domestic operations, is not to say the government should countenance disclosure of details about its lawful electronic intelligence operations abroad against non-US citizens, which is what the pardon Snowden seeks would do.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Sunday, 18 September 2016 20:11 (seven years ago) link
And I don't really care much about "demoralizing" people in the IC, but the pardon sends a ludicrous message that all your NDAs are null and void immediately, which is a simultaneously silly and horrible stance for any state to take.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Sunday, 18 September 2016 20:13 (seven years ago) link
seems like it boils down to it makes the intelligence community look bad cos they failed to do their job and they are too big to fail
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Sunday, 18 September 2016 20:15 (seven years ago) link
uh okay sure
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Sunday, 18 September 2016 21:13 (seven years ago) link
the pardon sends a ludicrous message that all your NDAs are null and void immediately, which is a simultaneously silly and horrible stance for any state to take
Seriously? Wouldn't there be some way around this sort of thing, administratively, legally?
― augh (Control Z), Monday, 19 September 2016 10:46 (seven years ago) link
But to say that it needed to open up a great deal, especially about the extent of and legal bases of its domestic operations, is not to say the government should countenance disclosure of details about its lawful electronic intelligence operations abroad against non-US citizens, which is what the pardon Snowden seeks would do.
I thought that the cost-benefit ratio of that whole "loss of civil liberties / invasion of privacy / absence of public accountability / operating in secrecy / violating the Constitution" thing vs. "actual effectiveness in prosecuting the War on Terror and preventing terrist attacks and so on" was rather lopsided, myself.
― augh (Control Z), Monday, 19 September 2016 10:54 (seven years ago) link
From the comments on the Ars article, this seems more persuasive to me:
Pardon is the wrong debate. Pardoning someone without a trial is hot bullshit. That is a way to cover up the truth, not to render justice. It was true of Richard Nixon, and it would be true of Edward Snowden. There is a reason why Justice Department guidelines oppose granting pardons this way.
Snowden's trial should be public, before a jury of his peers. The US government just wants to do a Chelsea Manning on Snowden, and that is some even hotter bullshit.
― augh (Control Z), Monday, 19 September 2016 11:18 (seven years ago) link
Persuasive how? "Everything is bullshit" oh good to know
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Monday, 19 September 2016 12:12 (seven years ago) link
good to remember
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Monday, 19 September 2016 12:23 (seven years ago) link
Here's the argument that Goldsmith was countering: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/op-ed-why-obama-should-pardon-edward-snowden/
Key part:
If Snowden returned to the United States today, of course, he would have to stand trial for disclosing classification communications intelligence, among other serious crimes. This will never happen. Snowden’s lawyers know he would likely be convicted and would face a lengthy prison term. Under federal sentencing guidelines, an offender with no criminal history who is convicted of disclosing “Top Secret” communications information under 18 U.S.C. § 793(d) faces a prison term in the range of 168-210 months, or 14 to 17.5 years. See U.S.S.G.M. § 2M3.2. Snowden might face a considerably longer sentence if convicted of additional charges, or as a result of sentencing enhancements. Naturally, Snowden prefers to stay abroad.The law does not allow the public interest defense that Snowden says he wants, nor should it. Permitting such a defense would encourage copycats. A Snowden wannabe might hope his lawyer could convince a credulous jury that his leaks also had some positive outcome, even if the benefits were scant. The Snowden disclosures were a unique watershed event, resulting in historic reforms. It is highly unlikely a future leak of classified surveillance information would produce such positive change.While Snowden might be enticed to return if offered a favorable plea agreement, negotiating such a deal would create poor incentives. One idea, favored by the top lawyer for the intelligence community, was for Snowden to plead guilty to a single felony charge and serve three to five years in exchange for his help undoing the damage he caused. Through his lawyer, Snowden has said he would never plead guilty to a felony. If a plea deal was ever really on the table, Snowden has less to offer every day, as the information he leaked becomes stale and the intelligence community moves on. In any event, the Justice Department rightly objects to negotiating plea agreements with fugitives, to avoid giving those who flee prosecution an advantage over those that do not.
The law does not allow the public interest defense that Snowden says he wants, nor should it. Permitting such a defense would encourage copycats. A Snowden wannabe might hope his lawyer could convince a credulous jury that his leaks also had some positive outcome, even if the benefits were scant. The Snowden disclosures were a unique watershed event, resulting in historic reforms. It is highly unlikely a future leak of classified surveillance information would produce such positive change.
While Snowden might be enticed to return if offered a favorable plea agreement, negotiating such a deal would create poor incentives. One idea, favored by the top lawyer for the intelligence community, was for Snowden to plead guilty to a single felony charge and serve three to five years in exchange for his help undoing the damage he caused. Through his lawyer, Snowden has said he would never plead guilty to a felony. If a plea deal was ever really on the table, Snowden has less to offer every day, as the information he leaked becomes stale and the intelligence community moves on. In any event, the Justice Department rightly objects to negotiating plea agreements with fugitives, to avoid giving those who flee prosecution an advantage over those that do not.
In short, the argument for giving Snowden a pardon rests solidly on a foundation of "he's special, none of the rules apply."
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Monday, 19 September 2016 20:51 (seven years ago) link
I just realized I have no idea why I'm reposting this stuff here. People done made up their minds and so have I
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Monday, 19 September 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link
"Does the Post believe that reporting on the government is important, and that leaks are a necessary evil in order to do so? Or does it believe that leakers should be prosecuted? It appears to believe both simultaneously."
http://fortune.com/2016/09/19/washington-post-snowden/
― augh (Control Z), Tuesday, 20 September 2016 06:04 (seven years ago) link
That's the crux of most arguments for extrajudicial pardon, isn't it? There's an awareness that there are no legal avenues to pursue but the circumstances of the case dictate that there are moral arguments for the law to not be applied. There would be no legal precedent and making the case against a general public-interest-disclosure exemption is a separate issue.
Snowden's supporters aren't just arguing that he disclosed information in a vaguely defined 'public interest', they argue that he exposed rampant illegal behaviour at the NSA and didn't see an alternative route to bringing it to light. Whether that's true or not, idk, but it's a stronger justification than 'the public right to know'.
― On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 20 September 2016 07:11 (seven years ago) link
But the unfortunate truth of our times is that Obama is not going to pardon Snowden and Manning. His administration has invested too much capital in demonizing them to turn back now. However, there are other leakers and whistleblowers for whom the arguments in favor of pardons are not only compelling but politically palatable, too. Their names are Stephen Kim, Jeffrey Sterling, John Kiriakou, and Thomas Drake. All of them were government officials who talked with journalists and were charged under the Espionage Act for disclosures of information that were far less consequential than the classified emails that Hillary Clinton stored on her server at home or the top-secret war diaries that David Petraeus shared with his biographer and girlfriend....
https://theintercept.com/2016/09/19/why-obama-should-pardon-all-leakers-and-whistleblowers-not-just-edward-snowden/
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 September 2016 17:17 (seven years ago) link
good link morbz
― Nhex, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 19:06 (seven years ago) link
That author's disinterest in the facts or the rule of law is really, uh, fascinating
How do you pardon somebody after all the charges against them were dropped? I'm not saying that Thomas Drake didn't get screwed but he also didn't get convicted of anything.
Jeff Sterling's lawyers specifically called out Petraeus' wrist slap and got his sentence significantly reduced by the judge, who also pointed out the pertinent differences between both respective breaches in her ruling.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 20 September 2016 20:08 (seven years ago) link
I could be pissing in the wind here, but haven't pardons been issued to people who weren't convicted before? "symbolic" et al
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 September 2016 20:29 (seven years ago) link
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_or_granted_clemency_by_the_President_of_the_United_States
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 20 September 2016 20:58 (seven years ago) link
You're almost as good at Wikipedia as I am
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 00:00 (seven years ago) link
Kiriakou compared to Petraeus is a much more interesting case although the former did make some of his own bed by lying repeatedly and then pleading guilty to same. Petraeus should have done time, for sure.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 21 September 2016 01:20 (seven years ago) link
Any discussion of the Stone movie anywhere? I can't seem to find it.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 10:26 (seven years ago) link
but the pardon sends a ludicrous message that all your NDAs are null and void immediately, which is a simultaneously silly and horrible stance for any state to take
So you think that if you have a non-disclosure agreement, you have to do anything your employer asks and keep it quiet, be it unconstitutional or illegal?
― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 21 September 2016 13:09 (seven years ago) link
I feel like I'm speaking a different language over here. No. That's not at all what I meant. I mean that a pardon would signal, in varying degrees to people depending on their inclination, something along the lines of "these TOP SECRET stickers? That's just a serving suggestion. Go ahead and talk about stuff whenever and wherever to whomever, we might act tough at first but you know, whatever." And it would also signal to every informant that we only kind of care about protecting their identity, which is the same as not caring at all.
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Thursday, 22 September 2016 02:28 (seven years ago) link
So you think this guy should be locked up too:
Daniel Ellsberg (born April 7, 1931) is an activist and former United States military analyst who, while employed by the RAND Corporation, precipitated a national political controversy in 1971 when he released the Pentagon Papers, a top-secret Pentagon study of U.S. government decision-making in relation to the Vietnam War, to The New York Times and other newspapers.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 September 2016 14:20 (seven years ago) link
I get that there are legitimate reasons for top secret classification sometimes, but there are also times when it is not legit.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 September 2016 14:46 (seven years ago) link
seems like people that are in the field of espionage and stealing top secret documents don't really need a reason to keep doing what they are already doing
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 22 September 2016 14:55 (seven years ago) link
it would also signal to every informant that we only kind of care about protecting their identity
VP Cheney's staffer was the one who did this
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 22 September 2016 14:59 (seven years ago) link
OK, there's no defense of the intelligence business that you won't counter by arguing (badly) against a position that I haven't actually taken at any point
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Thursday, 22 September 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link
what does tombot think about harold thomas martin the third
― Mordy, Thursday, 6 October 2016 01:28 (seven years ago) link
personnel security at the fort needs to probably abandon the insipid theatrics of polygraphs and piss cups and get better at spying on its own people
― Anacostia Aerodrome (El Tomboto), Thursday, 6 October 2016 01:32 (seven years ago) link
paul berman, camus-loving liberal champion of the iraq war (and a pretty good writer, sadly), has written one of the dumbest takes on snowden i've ever read:
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/214286/edward-snowden-very-little-brother
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:22 (seven years ago) link
funny how that combines contempt for snowden w misplaced holy awe at his "hacking"
Here is a man who, like everyone else, has opinions. Only, in his case, his technical skills allow him to act on his opinions.
his position and the information it gave him allowed him to act on his opinions, just like any other whistleblower (or traitor, if you like) of any other era
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:37 (seven years ago) link
His technical skill was dumping shit onto a USB drive and exfiltrating it
― slathered in cream and covered with stickers (silby), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:40 (seven years ago) link
well once he'd gotten past the ice, sure
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:42 (seven years ago) link
touch and go for a while tho, he almost had to jack out
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:44 (seven years ago) link
then where would he have been? on his back in the lee kuan yew pods with $3k of illegal grafts in his brainstem and a trace flashing like the ass end of an ambulance, that's where
― florence foster wallace (difficult listening hour), Thursday, 6 October 2016 04:50 (seven years ago) link
So Martin worked for Booz Allen Hamilton and has not been charged with espionage
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:27 (seven years ago) link
lol USG
― The Hon. J. Piedmont Mumblethunder (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 6 October 2016 15:31 (seven years ago) link
The battle over encryption, which dates to the 1990s, could heat up quickly with Trump's win and the reelection of Republican Senator Richard Burr, the chairman of the Senate intelligence committee.
Burr spearheaded a failed effort last year to pass legislation requiring that companies build 'back doors' into their products that would allow government agents to bypass encryption and other forms of data protection.
Such requirements are fiercely opposed by the tech industry, which argues that back doors weaken security for everyone and that the government has no business mandating tech product design.
"I imagine (Trump) is going to be a guy who is probably going to mandate back doors," said Hank Thomas, chief operating officer at Strategic Cyber Ventures and a veteran of the National Security Agency. "I don't think he's ultimately going to be a friend to privacy, and the fearful side of me says he will get intelligence agencies more involved in domestic law enforcement."
http://news.trust.org/item/20161110005059-q7znd
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 November 2016 21:25 (seven years ago) link
Saw somebody tweet yesterday about how many new Signal check-ins they were getting on their phone.You can't put back doors in everything.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 November 2016 22:45 (seven years ago) link
Verge has a handy update on what does what
http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/10/13585712/secure-encrypted-messaging-services-signal-imessage-president-trump
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 10 November 2016 23:26 (seven years ago) link
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-york-hidden-in-plain-sight/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 17 November 2016 05:06 (seven years ago) link
Intelligence experts urge Obama to end Edward Snowden's 'untenable exile
Fifteen former staff members of the Church committee, the 1970s congressional investigation into illegal activity by the CIA and other intelligence agencies, have written jointly to Obama calling on him to end Snowden’s “untenable exile in Russia, which benefits nobody”. Over eight pages of tightly worded argument, they remind the president of the positive debate that Snowden’s disclosures sparked – prompting one of the few examples of truly bipartisan legislative change in recent years.
The lead signatories of the Obama letter are Frederick Schwarz, who was chief counsel to the Church committee and is now at the Brennan Center for Justice, and William Green Miller, the committee’s staff director who went on to become US ambassador to Ukraine in the 1990s.
In their letter, which they have also sent to the US attorney general, Loretta Lynch, the 15 cite the former CIA director David Petraeus as an example of the kind of official leniency that has so far eluded Snowden. Petraeus violated both the law and national security by leaking confidential information to his biographer and lover, then lied about it to the FBI.
“Yet he was allowed to plead guilty to just one misdemeanor for which he received no jail time,” the letter says. The reference to Petraeus is pointed at a time when the former military commander is being actively considered by President-elect Donald Trump to become US secretary of state.
― augh (Control Z), Wednesday, 30 November 2016 06:43 (seven years ago) link
Dutch newspaper announcing that at 20.00 gmt "shocking news' will be revealed, researched by 60 papers and journalists worldwide from 1.7tb of data.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 18:08 (seven years ago) link
(Posting it in this particular thread is my own personal guess, don't know if it's from Snowden stuff)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
no anglo papers have the story?
― Mordy, Friday, 2 December 2016 19:36 (seven years ago) link
Appears that that isn't the case. Der Spiegel naming papers from Denmark, Holland, Romania, Serbia, France, Spain, Austria, Belgium
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 19:49 (seven years ago) link
Is the case
EU data dump?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
brexit vote fixed by putin, i knew it
― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 2 December 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
#fml it's about Cristiano Ronaldo tax-evading for a gazillion dollars... Bitterly disappointed.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 20:07 (seven years ago) link
Twitter in #wellthatsdisappointing meltdown
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 2 December 2016 20:12 (seven years ago) link
"SIDtoday is the internal newsletter for the NSA’s most important division, the Signals Intelligence Directorate. After editorial review, The Intercept is releasing nine years’ worth of newsletters in batches, starting with 2003. The agency’s spies explain a surprising amount about what they were doing, how they were doing it, and why."
https://theintercept.com/snowden-sidtoday/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 December 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/12/this-low-cost-device-may-be-the-worlds-best-hope-against-account-takeovers/
― a Warren Beatty film about Earth (El Tomboto), Friday, 23 December 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
deeeeeeelightful (eff Obama)
@charlie_savageBREAKING: Obama admin permits NSA to give raw (unminimized to protect privacy)12333 surveillance to FBI/CIA/DEA/etc
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/nsa-gets-more-latitude-to-share-intercepted-communications.html
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 January 2017 18:18 (seven years ago) link
Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch signed the new rules, permitting the N.S.A. to disseminate “raw signals intelligence information,” on Jan. 3, after the director of national intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr., signed them on Dec. 15, according to a 23-page, largely declassified copy of the procedures.
Previously, the N.S.A. filtered information before sharing intercepted communications with another agency, like the C.I.A. or the intelligence branches of the F.B.I. and the Drug Enforcement Administration. The N.S.A.’s analysts passed on only information they deemed pertinent, screening out the identities of innocent people and irrelevant personal information.
Now, other intelligence agencies will be able to search directly through raw repositories of communications intercepted by the N.S.A. and then apply such rules for “minimizing” privacy intrusions.
nope no chance of abuse here
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 January 2017 18:53 (seven years ago) link
I'M GLAD LYNCH THOUGHT ABOUT IT OVER HER HOLIDAZE
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 January 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
@SnowdenDays ago, I criticized the Russian government's oppressive new "Big Brother" law. Now, threatening rumors. But I won't stop.
I don't know if the rumors are true. But I can tell you this: I am not afraid. There are things that must be said no matter the consequence.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 February 2017 21:57 (seven years ago) link
if putin does kick out snowden presumably everybody who thinks he's a russian spy will finally stfu
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 13 February 2017 21:58 (seven years ago) link
rly, do they ever stfu?
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Monday, 13 February 2017 22:12 (seven years ago) link
nobody with snowden opinions is ever going to stfu about snowden
― El Tomboto, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:22 (seven years ago) link
i liked it so much better when "snowden's secret" was that people are sausage containers
― El Tomboto, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:23 (seven years ago) link
what if putin kicks out snowden so he can take a job w/ the trump administration
― Mordy, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:32 (seven years ago) link
employing a guy you've suggested should be executed is uncharted waters even for Yam*
*you dipshit
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 February 2017 22:34 (seven years ago) link
that particular example is maybe uncharted but he has flipped on very dramatic policy decisions already and appears to have no coherent perspective at all. also it was a joke.
― Mordy, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:36 (seven years ago) link
lol yeah I thought that was just a variation on the "Trump appoints blatantly unqualified/antagonistic people to head x agency" joeks
― Οὖτις, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:39 (seven years ago) link
my opinion about the snowden offer is that it's a poisoned chalice - another issue that will split the american public and create an upsetting national controversy that trump is ill-equipped to navigate. but maybe i'm overestimating the national public and americans would just be impressed that trump was able to procure snowden from putin to punish when obama couldn't.
― Mordy, Monday, 13 February 2017 22:40 (seven years ago) link
2-year throwback:
@NSAGovEvery move they make, every step they take. We’ll be watching our foreign adversaries. #HappyValentinesDay from the #NSA #vday2015
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 February 2017 15:41 (seven years ago) link
nice job keepin' the Story of the Day about yr fave agency quiet so far, guys!
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 21:28 (seven years ago) link
anyhoo
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/839168025517522944
Fuck wikileaks and Assange, that Trump-supporting rapist.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 21:31 (seven years ago) link
That tweet seems really misleading. It sounds like the NSA bought the exploit from the company that discovered it. It's not new information that the intelligence community/law enforcement do this. They didn't pay Apple to put the vulnerability or backdoor in iOS. I haven't found or heard of any intentional backdoors in the leak so far, just exploits.
― o_o, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 21:59 (seven years ago) link
The leak sheds some limited light on the CIA’s sources of those exploits, too. While some of the attacks are attributed to public releases by iOS researchers, and the Chinese hacker Pangu, who’s developed techniques to “jailbreak” the iPhone to allow the installation of unauthorized apps, others are attributed to partner agencies or contractors under codenames. The remote iOS exploit is listed as “Purchased by NSA” and “Shared with CIA.” The CIA apparently purchased two other iOS tools from a contractor listed as “Baitshop,” while the Android tools are attributed to sellers codenamed Fangtooth and Anglerfish.
In a tweet, NSA leaker Edward Snowden pointed to those references as “the first public evidence [the US government] is paying to keep US software unsafe.”
https://www.wired.com/2017/03/cia-can-hack-phone-pc-tv-says-wikileaks/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:09 (seven years ago) link
He worked in both agencies, at some point you'd think he would understand what their mission is
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:11 (seven years ago) link
that seems pretty disingenuous to me. the only way that argument works is if you believe that the knowledge of exploits makes software unsafe as opposed to the existence of vulnerabilities. but the vulnerabilities exist whether or not the CIA is paying for the information. and the CIA paying for the information doesn't create the vulnerabilities since they're error on the part of the companies designing the hardware/software.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:13 (seven years ago) link
snowden's argument that is. disingenuous, sacre bleu, i know
― Mordy, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:14 (seven years ago) link
If you assume "USG" is one big monolith, where all the FEMA folks and park rangers and yours truly get CC'd on the email where Agent Hax0rZ agrees to move 72/89ths of a bitcoin for the remote admin 0day in iOS, then his argument almost makes sense: Government, instead of keeping us safe, is keeping us UNSAFE, by not disclosing or fixing the problems in iOS etc. that it spends our taxes to find out about.
But different agencies do different things to keep us safe. We argue amongst ourselves about how to do that. It's not a monolith.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:31 (seven years ago) link
where all the FEMA folks and park rangers and yours truly get CC'd on the email where Agent Hax0rZ agrees to move 72/89ths of a bitcoin
yes i'm sure this is EXACTLY what Snowden means.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:40 (seven years ago) link
"USG" is shorthand for 'them who works for us'
This concerns me, though: https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_17760284.html
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:40 (seven years ago) link
CIA emoji stashhttps://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_17760284.html
― o_o, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:42 (seven years ago) link
Lol, didn't see you posted that, sorry
― o_o, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:44 (seven years ago) link
¬_¬
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:47 (seven years ago) link
Hey Morbs do you care to explain what YOU think Ed means in more than a dozen words?
Do you believe in foreign policy and "statecraft?" Is espionage a thing in your world? I guess not, since the Russian stuff really seems to turn you off on the US politics threads.
There are no spies! Only Obamafactured excuses for jacking phones and sending drones. Is that it?
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 23:20 (seven years ago) link
Does it ever feel a tad pompous, presumptuous, or maybe even nationalistic, (!) to assume our own intelligence services are so ruthless, rich and competent that they're the REAL threat to peace and democracy, while other countries with similar designs on geopolitical power have these spy agencies that don't deserve respect unless they get caught red-handed stealing an election?
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 7 March 2017 23:33 (seven years ago) link
morbs you don't even have a portable telephone
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 7 March 2017 23:49 (seven years ago) link
i try to be as much of a nonperson as I can. Gotten harder when i have to pay for even my cancer drips with a credit card.
From history I have learned that our intel services are pretty much Murder Inc, only sometimes more competent. (lol good job on that Fidel assassination)
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 01:23 (seven years ago) link
There are nothin BUT spies and suckers, buddy
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 01:24 (seven years ago) link
anyway Michael Hayden showed up on Colbert last night to propagandize the "trust us" angle, so all's well.
Karl Sharro@KarlreMarks.@CIA hey guys, I want to buy a smart TV, do you recommend a particular brand?
I thought it's polite to ask them because we will both be watching it together.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 8 March 2017 12:40 (seven years ago) link
Hurr hurr hurr
― El Tomboto, Wednesday, 8 March 2017 12:49 (seven years ago) link
Edward Snowden’s Hong Kong barrister authenticates hotel records, debunking mystery gap claim
http://www.charliesavage.com/?p=1543
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:51 (seven years ago) link
if you're in the US, given today's news (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/for-sale-your-private-browsing-history/)
- if you're on macos/ios use https://www.getcloak.com/ - if you need windows/android support use https://www.tunnelbear.com/ - if you're a collosal nerd use https://github.com/trailofbits/algo
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 02:56 (seven years ago) link
i'm just not gonna use the internet
― example (crüt), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 03:01 (seven years ago) link
That's what I've been doing for years
― Not the real Tombot (El Tomboto), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 03:05 (seven years ago) link
i'm on my second internet-free day it's going great
― example (crüt), Wednesday, 29 March 2017 03:09 (seven years ago) link
It should be stressed that many, many VPN services are awful and/or scams. Your VPN provider has the same ability to see or modify your traffic as your ISP would otherwise have, so it's easy to make it worse for yourself by picking a bad service. Caek's recommendations are all good, and Freedome has a 50% off sale going on and should also be fine (coupon is MARCH50). Using a free service will probably end badly, unfortunately.
― o_o, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 04:26 (seven years ago) link
Oh, and if you decide to roll your own with Algo or something, Amazon AWS has a free tier that will get you a server to run it on for a year. That's what I've been doing.
― o_o, Wednesday, 29 March 2017 04:32 (seven years ago) link
those nsa hackers have given up on their bitcoin ransom and put out the password for the rest of the equation group exploits
https://medium.com/@shadowbrokerss/dont-forget-your-base-867d304a94b1
obv this coming right in the aftermatch of the syria strikes is totally coincidental
― sktsh, Saturday, 8 April 2017 12:21 (seven years ago) link
probably should take a look at my work email
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 8 April 2017 12:57 (seven years ago) link
it sounds from twitter like it's all like exploits for sendmail in redhat 7 or whatever rather than partic up to date stuff
[not the angle you're looking at i realise tombot]
― sktsh, Saturday, 8 April 2017 13:20 (seven years ago) link
well I assume that the stuff that can be readily identified and analyzed within a couple of hours is going to be stuff people are already familiar withwouldn't be surprised if it adheres to sturgeon's law, but it's going to be the 2-3 things that aren't immediately obvious that we should be worried about
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 8 April 2017 13:36 (seven years ago) link
what's not totally coincidental is this coming at the same moment that mark s lost his temper with frederik b
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 8 April 2017 13:51 (seven years ago) link
deeper state from before the dawn of time
― mark s, Saturday, 8 April 2017 14:00 (seven years ago) link
Oh right, Deep State Magic.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 8 April 2017 14:36 (seven years ago) link
the auction was never really about bitcoins
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 8 April 2017 15:02 (seven years ago) link
The ShadowBrokers, an entity previously confirmed by The Intercept to have leaked authentic malware used by the NSA to attack computers around the world, today released another cache of what appears to be extremely potent (and previously unknown) software capable of breaking into systems running Windows. The software could give nearly anyone with sufficient technical knowledge the ability to wreak havoc on millions of Microsoft users....
According to security researcher and hacker Matthew Hickey, co-founder of Hacker House, the significance of what’s now publicly available, including “zero day” attacks on previously undisclosed vulnerabilities, cannot be overstated: “I don’t think I have ever seen so much exploits and 0day [exploits] released at one time in my entire life,” he told The Intercept via Twitter DM, “and I have been involved in computer hacking and security for 20 years.” Affected computers will remain vulnerable until Microsoft releases patches for the zero-day vulnerabilities and, more crucially, until their owners then apply those patches.
“This is as big as it gets,” Hickey said. “Nation-state attack tools are now in the hands of anyone who cares to download them…it’s literally a cyberweapon for hacking into computers…people will be using these attacks for years to come.”
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/14/leaked-nsa-malware-threatens-windows-users-around-the-world/
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 14 April 2017 21:23 (seven years ago) link
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/msrc/2017/04/14/protecting-customers-and-evaluating-risk/
Most of the exploits that were disclosed fall into vulnerabilities that are already patched in our supported products. Below is a list of exploits that are confirmed as already addressed by an update. We encourage customers to ensure their computers are up-to-date.
Code Name Solution“EternalBlue” Addressed by MS17-010“EmeraldThread” Addressed by MS10-061“EternalChampion” Addressed by CVE-2017-0146 & CVE-2017-0147“ErraticGopher” Addressed prior to the release of Windows Vista“EsikmoRoll” Addressed by MS14-068“EternalRomance” Addressed by MS17-010“EducatedScholar” Addressed by MS09-050“EternalSynergy” Addressed by MS17-010“EclipsedWing” Addressed by MS08-067
Of the three remaining exploits, “EnglishmanDentist”, “EsteemAudit”, and “ExplodingCan”, none reproduces on supported platforms, which means that customers running Windows 7 and more recent versions of Windows or Exchange 2010 and newer versions of Exchange are not at risk. Customers still running prior versions of these products are encouraged to upgrade to a supported offering.
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 15 April 2017 15:56 (seven years ago) link
EnglishmanDentist
― The Jams Manager (1992, Brickster) (El Tomboto), Saturday, 15 April 2017 15:57 (seven years ago) link
U.S. intelligence agencies conducted illegal surveillance on American citizens over a five-year period, a practice that earned them a sharp rebuke from a secret court that called the matter a “very serious” constitutional issue.
The criticism is in a lengthy secret ruling that lays bare some of the frictions between the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and U.S. intelligence agencies obligated to obtain the court’s approval for surveillance activities.
The ruling, dated April 26 and bearing the label “top secret,” was obtained and published Thursday by the news site Circa....
The document, signed by Judge Rosemary M. Collyer, said the court had learned in a notice filed Oct. 26, 2016, that National Security Agency analysts had been conducting prohibited queries of databases “with much greater frequency than had previously been disclosed to the court.”
It said a judge chastised the NSA’s inspector general and Office of Compliance for Operations for an “institutional ‘lack of candor’ ” for failing to inform the court. It described the matter as “a very serious Fourth Amendment issue.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/national-security/article152947909.html
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 31 May 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-nominates-backdoor-search-defender-to-lead-privacy-board/article/2633026
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 31 August 2017 21:54 (six years ago) link
so someone explain to me how catastrophic of a disaster this wifi protocol being cracked is
― officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 16 October 2017 18:01 (six years ago) link
Ehh, patch all your stuff, especially your android phone. Always be patching. If you have auto updates for Mac or Windows you’re already protected, I believe. Microsoft’s release last Tuesday definitely had the fix. If you run a big corporate network that allows guest WiFi access you’ll be testing and protecting against this for probably years, though.Here’s a decent blog on ithttp://blog.erratasec.com/2017/10/some-notes-on-krack-attack.html?m=1
― El Tomboto, Monday, 16 October 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
this is a good backgrounder on the institutional missed opportunities that lead to this problem
https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2017/10/16/falling-through-the-kracks/
(that whole blog, on the mathsy/theory/CS side of infosec, is all around great btw)
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 02:58 (six years ago) link
Pelosi and Ryan, champions of FISA 702
https://theintercept.com/2018/01/11/nsa-pelosi-democrats-spy-american-section-702/
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 January 2018 22:33 (six years ago) link
not nsa but surveillance/close enough
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/14/is-your-boss-secretly-or-not-so-secretly-watching-you
James Bloodworth spent a month working as a “picker” – the person who locates the products ordered – for Amazon in March 2016 for his book Hired: Six Months Undercover in Low-Wage Britain. “We carried this handheld device at all times and it tracks your productivity,” he says. It would direct workers to the items they need to find on the shelves in one of Amazon’s vast warehouses. “Each time you picked up an item, there would be this countdown timer [to get to the next item] which would measure your productivity.” Bloodworth says supervisors would tell people how productive they were being; he was warned he was in the bottom 10%. “You were also sent admonishments through the device saying you need to get your productivity up. You’re constantly tracked and rated. I found you couldn’t keep up with the productivity targets without running – yet you were also told you weren’t allowed to run, and if you did, you’d get a disciplinary. But if you fell behind in productivity, you’d get a disciplinary for that as well.” It didn’t feel, he says, “that you were really treated as a human being”. Workers had to go through airport-style security scanners at the beginning and end of their shifts, or to get to the break areas. He says going to the loo was described as “idle time” and once found a bottle of urine on one of the shelves.Amazon says its scanning devices “are common across the warehouse and logistics sector as well as in supermarkets, department stores and other businesses, and are designed to assist our people in performing their roles”, while the company “ensures all of its associates have easy access to toilet facilities, which are just a short walk from where they are working”. It adds: “Associates are allowed to use the toilet whenever needed. We do not monitor toilet breaks.”...Surveillance can have positive applications. It’s necessary (and legally required) in the financial industry to prevent insider trading. It could be used to prevent harassment and bullying, and to root out bias and discrimination. One interesting study last year monitored emails and productivity, and used sensors to track behaviour and interaction with management, and found that men and women behaved almost identically at work. The findings challenged the belief that the reason women are not promoted to senior levels is that they are less proactive or have fewer interactions with leaders, and simply need to “lean in”.Still, says, Woodcock, “we need to have a conversation in society about whether work should be somewhere that you’re surveilled”. That need is perhaps most urgent where low-paid, insecure jobs are concerned. “If you work in the gig economy, you have a smartphone,” Woodcock points out, and that smartphone can be used to track you. “I think because many of these workplaces don’t have traditional forms of organisation or trade unions, management are able to introduce these things with relatively little collective resistance.”The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain is well aware of the issues of monitoring and data collection. James Farrar is the chair of its United Private Hire Drivers branch, and the Uber driver who won a legal battle against the company last year for drivers’ rights. “They do collect an awful lot of information,” he says. “One of the things they will report to you on a daily basis is how good your acceleration and braking has been. You get a rating. The question is: why are they collecting that information?” Uber also monitors “unusual movements” of the phone when someone is driving (implying it knows if someone is using their phone while at the wheel) and, of course, tracks cars and drivers by GPS.“My concern with it is this information is being fed into a dispatch algorithm,” he says. “We should have access to the data and understand how it’s being used. If some kind of quality score on my driving capability [is put into an algorithm], I may be offered less valuable work, kept away from the most valuable clients – who knows?” It’s not an unreasonable fear – the food delivery company Deliveroo already does something similar, monitoring its riders’ and drivers’ performance, and has started offering “priority access” when booking shifts to those who “provide the most consistent, quality service”. Uber, however, says its monitoring is intended only to deliver “a smoother, safer ride … This data is used to inform drivers of their driving habits and is not used to affect future trip requests.”Not all surveillance is bad, says Farrar. In some ways, he would like more. He was assaulted by a passenger and is calling for CCTV in all vehicles, partly for the safety of drivers. “There is a role for surveillance technology,” he says. Ironically, when Farrar went for a meeting with Uber to discuss the assault, the company made him turn his phone off to prove he wasn’t recording it.
Amazon says its scanning devices “are common across the warehouse and logistics sector as well as in supermarkets, department stores and other businesses, and are designed to assist our people in performing their roles”, while the company “ensures all of its associates have easy access to toilet facilities, which are just a short walk from where they are working”. It adds: “Associates are allowed to use the toilet whenever needed. We do not monitor toilet breaks.”
Surveillance can have positive applications. It’s necessary (and legally required) in the financial industry to prevent insider trading. It could be used to prevent harassment and bullying, and to root out bias and discrimination. One interesting study last year monitored emails and productivity, and used sensors to track behaviour and interaction with management, and found that men and women behaved almost identically at work. The findings challenged the belief that the reason women are not promoted to senior levels is that they are less proactive or have fewer interactions with leaders, and simply need to “lean in”.
Still, says, Woodcock, “we need to have a conversation in society about whether work should be somewhere that you’re surveilled”. That need is perhaps most urgent where low-paid, insecure jobs are concerned. “If you work in the gig economy, you have a smartphone,” Woodcock points out, and that smartphone can be used to track you. “I think because many of these workplaces don’t have traditional forms of organisation or trade unions, management are able to introduce these things with relatively little collective resistance.”
The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain is well aware of the issues of monitoring and data collection. James Farrar is the chair of its United Private Hire Drivers branch, and the Uber driver who won a legal battle against the company last year for drivers’ rights. “They do collect an awful lot of information,” he says. “One of the things they will report to you on a daily basis is how good your acceleration and braking has been. You get a rating. The question is: why are they collecting that information?” Uber also monitors “unusual movements” of the phone when someone is driving (implying it knows if someone is using their phone while at the wheel) and, of course, tracks cars and drivers by GPS.
“My concern with it is this information is being fed into a dispatch algorithm,” he says. “We should have access to the data and understand how it’s being used. If some kind of quality score on my driving capability [is put into an algorithm], I may be offered less valuable work, kept away from the most valuable clients – who knows?” It’s not an unreasonable fear – the food delivery company Deliveroo already does something similar, monitoring its riders’ and drivers’ performance, and has started offering “priority access” when booking shifts to those who “provide the most consistent, quality service”. Uber, however, says its monitoring is intended only to deliver “a smoother, safer ride … This data is used to inform drivers of their driving habits and is not used to affect future trip requests.”
Not all surveillance is bad, says Farrar. In some ways, he would like more. He was assaulted by a passenger and is calling for CCTV in all vehicles, partly for the safety of drivers. “There is a role for surveillance technology,” he says. Ironically, when Farrar went for a meeting with Uber to discuss the assault, the company made him turn his phone off to prove he wasn’t recording it.
also lots two people with interesting surnames
bloodworth and woodcock
― F# A# (∞), Monday, 14 May 2018 18:09 (five years ago) link
Snowden memoir is out, getting some good reviews
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 13 September 2019 18:41 (four years ago) link
The United States today filed a lawsuit against Edward Snowden, a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA), who published a book entitled Permanent Record in violation of the non-disclosure agreements he signed with both CIA and NSA.
The lawsuit alleges that Snowden published his book without submitting it to the agencies for pre-publication review, in violation of his express obligations under the agreements he signed. Additionally, the lawsuit alleges that Snowden has given public speeches on intelligence-related matters, also in violation of his non-disclosure agreements.
The United States’ lawsuit does not seek to stop or restrict the publication or distribution of Permanent Record. Rather, under well-established Supreme Court precedent, Snepp v. United States, the government seeks to recover all proceeds earned by Snowden because of his failure to submit his publication for pre-publication review in violation of his alleged contractual and fiduciary obligations.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/united-states-files-civil-lawsuit-against-edward-snowden-publishing-book-violation-cia-and
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 September 2019 19:14 (four years ago) link
Some of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s warrantless searches through the National Security Agency’s enormous troves of communications data violated the law and the Constitution, according to secret surveillance court rulings partially declassified on Tuesday.
The bureau’s so-called backdoor searches, long regarded by civil libertarians as a government end-run around warrant requirements, were overly broad, the court found. They appear to have affected what a judge on the court called “a large number of individuals, including U.S. persons.” On one day in December 2017 alone, the court found, the FBI conducted 6,800 queries of the NSA databases using Social Security numbers. The government, in secret, conceded that there were “fundamental misunderstandings” among some FBI personnel over the standards necessary for the searches....
As early as March 2018, the FISA Court identified to the government that the FBI was not sufficiently documenting which of its queries were tied to people inside the United States, despite a statutory obligation to do so. Nor were the searches “reasonably designed” to find evidence of crimes or foreign spying.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/secret-court-fbi-warrantless-searches-were-illegal
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 October 2019 17:59 (four years ago) link
I'm shocked! Shocked!
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 10 October 2019 19:13 (four years ago) link
anyone read his book yet?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 10 October 2019 20:14 (four years ago) link
I went control-f'ing for my name to see if I had participated in this thread much. Landed on this post and didn't know what to make of it: omnibus PRISM/NSA/free Edward Snowden/encryption tutorial thread
So I reverse image searched it and here was what Google was able to come up with.
https://i.imgur.com/LWrsVC9.png
Fun indeed, Google.
― ☮ (peace, man), Friday, 11 October 2019 11:30 (four years ago) link
President Trump said on Saturday that he would consider pardoning Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who faced criminal charges after leaking classified documents about vast government surveillance.“There are many, many people — it seems to be a split decision — many people think that he should be somehow be treated differently and other people think he did very bad things,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. “I’m going to take a very good look at it.”
“There are many, many people — it seems to be a split decision — many people think that he should be somehow be treated differently and other people think he did very bad things,” Mr. Trump said during a news conference at his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. “I’m going to take a very good look at it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/politics/trump-snowden-esper.html
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 17 August 2020 21:52 (three years ago) link
I. Just. Can’t. Congratulations GOP. This is who you are now. https://t.co/CAE98A7qjV— Susan Rice (@AmbassadorRice) August 16, 2020
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 17 August 2020 23:08 (three years ago) link
Who?
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 06:19 (three years ago) link
https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3g8wb/hacker-got-my-texts-16-dollars-sakari-netnumber
It costs around $16 to steal anyone's SMS account, which can then be used to hijack their other accounts.
― wasdnuos (abanana), Tuesday, 16 March 2021 02:41 (three years ago) link
In utterly non-shocking news:
Edward Snowden swears allegiance to Russia and receives passport, lawyer says
Edward Snowden, a former National Security Agency contractor who leaked information about U.S. surveillance programs, swore an oath of allegiance to Russia and has collected his Russian passport, his lawyer told state media on Friday.“Edward received a Russian passport yesterday and took the oath in accordance with the law,” lawyer Anatoly Kucherena said, according to Russia’s Interfax news agency. “He is, of course, happy, thanking the Russian Federation for the fact that he received citizenship,” he continued. “And most importantly, under the Constitution of Russia, he can no longer be extradited to a foreign state.”
“Edward received a Russian passport yesterday and took the oath in accordance with the law,” lawyer Anatoly Kucherena said, according to Russia’s Interfax news agency. “He is, of course, happy, thanking the Russian Federation for the fact that he received citizenship,” he continued. “And most importantly, under the Constitution of Russia, he can no longer be extradited to a foreign state.”
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 3 December 2022 03:30 (one year ago) link