TWAIN Acquire - the ORPHAN BLACK thread

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Also: Orphan Black - twisty-turny thing about a woman who discovers she's one of many clones. I'm now three episodes in, and it's okay, will prob stick with it.

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― DavidM, Saturday, May 4, 2013 1:03 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm only one episode in. Catching up when time permits. I like it so far, and it's good to know that it's already been given a second season.

― Johnny Fever, Saturday, May 4, 2013 6:28 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm all caught up with Orphan Black now. HOLY SHIT.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, May 6, 2013 7:08 AM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ORPHAN BLACK. dodgy accents and all. SO GOOD.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 12:24 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"vick's a dick"

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 12:24 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I spent most of Saturday watching Orphan Black. It's the best thing I've seen in ages.

― treefell, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 12:43 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I know the first thing people usually talk about when they talk about Orphan Black is the greatness of Tatiana Maslany, but it amazes me the way she makes each character she plays on the show totally a separate person that might as well be another actor altogether. And then the time she played Alison pretending to be Sarah? And NAILED IT? Fuck, I don't even know how you do that.

Love that show. Love it!

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:22 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

she is fucking unreal

still haven't seen the final two episodes of the season

― they are either militarists (ugh) or kangaroos (?) (DJP), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:24 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's also incredibly novel to see Canadians playing Brits.

― Simon H., Tuesday, June 18, 2013 3:39 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

okay okay fiiiiiiiine I'll check it out jeez

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:39 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do or don't.

But seriously, do.

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:42 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

eh someday, someday. i'm surprised because the commercials made it look kind of doofy

― Nhex, Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:48 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I was kinda giving it the side-eye, i'll admit

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:54 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It IS kind of doofy! But also completely awesome! I'm totally biased though. Uncanny shit like this is just sooo in my wheelhouse

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:57 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yet you willingly watched Defiance.

d'okay

xp

― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Tuesday, June 18, 2013 5:58 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Only one ep left of Orphan Black for me to watch :(

The only thing that lets this show down sometimes is the casting. The guy who plays Beth's police partner is a one-note cliche. Every time he's on screen it feels like a video-game cut scene. The guy who plays Paul is terrible, straight from the JAG school of simmering glances and husky whisperings. SPEAK UP, SON. SPEAK THE FUCK UP.

Everybody else is pretty great though. MAX HEADROOM! Good god the man can act!

the time she played Alison pretending to be Sarah? And NAILED IT?
So good.

I love the moment when you realize that 1) the murder victim 2) the murderer and 3) the detective investigating the case.... are all clones of each other.

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, June 21, 2013 3:08 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I actually like Art, but yes, Paul is very boring. Jordan Gavaris is great as Felix, though.

― Simon H., Friday, June 21, 2013 3:27 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I really REALLY like Angela, Art's new partner

― DJP, Friday, June 21, 2013 3:28 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Do we not have a dedicated OB thread yet? We should.

― Simon H., Friday, June 21, 2013 3:36 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Malsany is just ridiculously good in this

i've only seen 4 or so episodes so far but this show is dope.

http://www.vulture.com/2013/06/your-orphan-black-questions-answered.html

I kind of want to watch the whole of S1 over again, but it's only been three weeks since it ended. Too soon?

i watched it really casually, to the point that my wife who watched less than half the episodes with me understood what was going on more than me. but i liked it.

How can three clones all live in the same town and never have run into each other before this? (Alison, Sarah, Beth). We see Vic run into Alison in a parking lot. How has this never happened before??

Also did we ever get an explanation of why Sarah vamoosed for 10 months? I always sort of assumed it was cause she owed drug money but is it ever spelled out?

I really REALLY like Angela, Art's new partner

Cosine

Although Felix is the moral center of the show imo

How can three clones all live in the same town and never have run into each other before this? (Alison, Sarah, Beth).

Most people agree that you wouldn't recognize yourself if you saw yourself (or a clone of you) walking down the street.

We see Vic run into Alison in a parking lot. How has this never happened before??

This is totally a valid question. Even thought all three seem to have traveled in very different circles, someone somewhere before now would've seen one of them and recognized another.

We never found out what the deal was with Maggie Chen, did we?

I'm thinking Maggie had some sort of meds that could help the sick clones live, possibly even reverse the sickness. And some turn of events saw Beth shoot her, possibly mistakenly. And that's why she ran in front of the train, because she felt she had let her sisters down.

We also never found out why Sarah just vamoosed for 10 months, did we?

Another thought - This is possibly the most casually gay TV drama I've ever seen. Felix is as gay as the day is long and is also some kind of part-time rent boy? Isn't there a scene with a naked dude on his bed giving him money? Cross-dressing primary school kids. Women kissing women. The general queer vibe of body-modding. Good shit!

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/6/26/20/enhanced-buzz-wide-17793-1372294132-2.jpg

lol

putting off the finale until both my wife and I can watch it... I am so so so so excited for it too (btw don't worry about spoilers for me, I have been reading AV Club reviews before watching the episodes and none of them have ruined the experience for me)

Can we talk about how Maslany won a Critic's Choice award for this? Maybe an Emmy isn't entirely far-fetched...

it was adorable how TOTALLY overwhelmed and flustered she was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWqDe1vhu08&feature=player_embedded

I need to watch this, don't I?

You do.

watched ep 6 the other night, omg the golf club moment. that felt like some breaking bad-level unexpected shit.

also for anyone who's played Far Cry 3, it's crazy to see how much Vaas in the game looks like his voice actor, i.e. the dude who plays Vic in OB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL5GTxuuckk

the guy who plays Vic is AMAZING.

http://www.google.com/url%3Fsa%3Di%26rct%3Dj%26q%3D%26esrc%3Ds%26source%3Dimages%26cd%3D%26cad%3Drja%26docid%3D0f1xgbX6Tlpa3M%26tbnid%3DRpNda0rk9kumVM%3A%26ved%3D0CAUQjRw%26url%3Dhttp%3A//orphanblack.tumblr.com/post/49511392916/q-shout-out-for-a-gif-of-vic-saying-stay-in-school%26ei%3DTZDMUcSCEuiFywG9k4DYAw%26bvm%3Dbv.48572450%2Cd.aWc%26psig%3DAFQjCNEEYkItTgNi-Ape3pUCSMU36abQ5w%26ust%3D1372447169560291
http://flashyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/YOTG-2012-Vaas-Mentenegro.jpg

aw, animated gif of vic's "stay in school, kid" didn't work.

this show

ikr

Okay the finale

Damn

this is a weird show for me because it started out very unsettling and could go _anywhere_ and the idea of being dropped into someone else's life and you have no idea what to do is great nightmare territory. but then it sort of settled out into a more conventional sci-fi narrative, and i had to readjust quite a bit. at first i was relieved to know what was going on, but then i felt cheated by knowing what was going on, and finally they started to open out the clone characters a bit more, make them all sufficiently weird in their own ways, etc.

I thought Maggie was an ex clone-creator who turned against them, and so Beth shot her, and that's really it? I think we do have no idea why Beth killed herself yet though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX_VKjVaW3M

i have watched the first five episodes of this today

think i might go for broke

It's addicitve, but maybe save the rest for tomorrow?

that would probably be a good idea

we'll see

watched 5 eps and I'm done with it. main actress is great obv but its too cheesy and more frustratingly is way too slow and boring

it gets much less slow the more eps you go in.

Yeah, if anything, the final two episodes go by too fast.

this morning i reread neuromancer in one sitting

it's been a weird day

lol @ me

just finished the first season, adored it. i care more about alison and cosima than anyone else, i think. i especially love felix begrudgingly becoming alison's friend, and the suburban plotline generally. holy shit @ alison in the finale: no direct spoilers, but out of a whole season of shocking things, that shocked me the most.

also delphine is like transcendentally gorgeous imo, i don't blame cosima one bit for wanting to get closer to her.

OMG http://tvline.com/2013/08/21/parks-and-recreation-season-6-cast-tatiana-maslany-tom-love-interest/

http://scontent-a-mia.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1234932_560530900649106_1804609504_n.jpg

Maggie Chen was part of the religious nutters who raised Helena and who managed to infiltrate DYAD (cf. the fish knife and the brand or tattoo on Maggie's neck). Don't think we know for sure exactly why Beth shot her.

IMO finale ruined by the unrealistically simplistic encoding techniques and the stuff about ASCII. Yes, I know this is a show about clones.

Ooh ooh ooh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfUxpTSnq4o

this was so good. such an amazing job of tone, vibes, whatever you want to call it. never too wacky or too bleak, despite many moments that seriously swing in one of those directions.

Didn't think the final ep of season 1 augured well but Season 2 opened pretty strongly - all the accents still slightly off, still corny as all hell, still redeemed by indefatigable scene stealing (and clone zone assless chaps) from Felix - plus this season: shameless Guffman rip-off + Show Tunes! But still incredibly watchable!

This is what i am talking about, best series on tv right now.

Allison is still my favorite clone. Nothing about last night's episode tempted me to change my mind.

Kinda disappointed that they pulled the "Helena is still alive" card. That storyline was enjoyable and all, but still.

I had that same thought, but then there is that whole thing where she and Sarah and Kira all heal very quickly (not necessarily shared by the other clones?). Which might explain why Rachel et al are so fixated on them in particular. Anyway, Helena is awesome, so I won't begrudge it.

Also, my shark-jump test for this show will be if/when they decide to give Felix some kind of backstory where he's involved in the whole thing. Because I could imagine that as a season 3 surprise or something when they run out of other twists, but nothing that's happened so far would make that make sense. You're on notice, Orphan Black writers!

There's already a theory that Felix is Sarah's monitor, which the show's creators won't confirm or deny.

That would be the type of weak shit that doesn't befit this show :(

Yeah that's seemed like a possibility, but it doesn't make sense. They made it pretty clear that Sarah had been off-radar ever since Miss S brought her and Felix to Canada. And Miss S obviously has her own secret history, but that does make sense. Giving Felix some deeper story would betray pretty much everything they've shown us about him -- not just when Sarah's around, but all the rest of the time too. Anyway, if they go that route I hope they find a way to make it coherent. The show has done a good job so far of rolling out revelations within a fairly well-organized framework. But incongruities and shocks for their own sake are a built-in risk of these kinds of mystery series.

(otoh maybe they could reveal that Felix is from a separate, yet-to-be-unveiled clone line. multiple Felixes could be fun.)

I think at the beginning, Sarah had only been away for a year, right? Not completely off-radar since the move to Canada.

Away from Felix and Kira, but it seems like the Dyad people were basically unaware of both her and Helena's whereabouts until they started popping up messing with things. Which gives credence to the birth-mother's story.

"what the dickens?"

love the look on ramon's face when he delivers the flowers and sees cosima and sarah.. and how they just let him dangle like that with no explanation, and then close the door

Didn't they tease the notion at the end of last season that Mrs. S is Sarah's monitor? I don't think that would be inconsistent with what we know so far.

I wasn't the least bit surprised to see Helena back. When I watched last season's finale, I thought there was no way that she'd stay dead, since they'd previously gone to great lengths to demonstrate her near-indestructibility. I like having her around since she's definitely one of the least predictable characters.

Amused at how Art & his partner are in their own little police-procedural world. It'll be interesting to see what kind of role Art will play once he knows what's up. Which is basically from now on, I guess.

i'm kind of hazy on who these anti-gene-mod religious extremists are. they raised helena from birth somehow, right? how did they get ahold of her in the first place? (same way they've got kira, i guess?)

i'm also super-hazy on who maggie chung was and why beth shot her. and indeed, why beth committed suicide at all.

one thing i'm not hazy on is how awesome alison's hubby's tight black undies were. who knew??

lol sorry, maggie CHEN

here is a wiki thing about her:
http://orphanblack.wikia.com/wiki/Maggie_Chen

so.. basically.. maggie USED to be a scientist in Dyad(/Neolution), but then got caught up in this Prolethean cult that sees the clones as an abomination that must be kilt? and Beth, through circumstances not quite fleshed out, kilt her instead, to protect herself and/or the other clones?

but i still don't remember/know why Beth kit herself by stepping in front of that train.

Sarah's explanation for Beth's suicide was that she discovered Paul was her monitor and not the love of her life. Plus she was overmedicated by her doc.

man the opening diner scene was great, love the new creepy religious dudes. and the local theater production, haha.

also someone please explain "twain acquire"?

It's something computery.

I didn't feel this, tbh; the characters are acting more stupidly. Like, how many times is Paul going to get away with letting Sarah "slip" out of his fingers?

paul is the weakest link in the show imo

Jordan, back in the day scanners and the like were known as TWAIN devices. A bunch of applications had the terminology "TWAIN Acquire" as shorthand for "get an image from a scanning device"

clones are like photocopies amirite

aha, thanks!

I sort of love how they spent the whole episode giving Mrs. S some clarity and they cloud it all up again at the end.

i half slept through the season 1 closer so these were super confusing to me. I feel like introducing a weird cult might be a mis-step also but we'll see.

The cult goes way back into S1. We're just seeing them now, though.

Outside of S going HAM, not feeling this season so far. Maybe because it feels like we're not getting any new revelations and that the narrative arcs are spinning in place? I'm even kind of bored with Alison!

I'm looking ahead 5 episodes after Art's hardass partner befriends Alison and gives Alison a chance to finally REALLY kill someone.

Art's partner is a monitor, I'm guessing -- a backup to Paul?

That's possible, but she just seems more like a gung ho character who'll eventually meet a grisly ending much to the delight of the audience. Shows need those people.

In that case, she could be both!

i'm not reading anything itt after season 1 stuff but i just managed to binge watch this in like three days which is a considerable feat (and very poor for my health)

I liked this last episode a lot better. Good tease between Prolethean vs. Dyad showdown, and realized that Angie with her hair pulled up is the spitting image of someone I know.

Thought that the scene with Helena was going to be a baptism because everyone was dressed in white, but then it became more of a marriage scene and made me wonder if head cowboy dad is a polygamist as well.

cosima imitating dr. leekie was like the highlight of the entire series to me. "great scott!"

http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/bnudfs7iaaaw48e-e1399777286800.jpg

Especially in scenes like this one, which can't have been easy to patch together in post, I continue to be amazed that this is all the work of a single woman playing these roles. FUCKING HELL THIS SHOW IS GOOD.

i can't wait to watch last night's. i sort of feel like watching eps 2 & 3 again as prep because it's kind of hard keeping everything straight in my head.

anybody have a favorite recapper/reviewer for this show?

Every time somebody thinks they've killed kill Helena, I'm all pssssssssshh, just you wait.

I like the direction Alison's story is going. I'm kind of lukewarm on Kira's dad/Nu-Daario. He's okay I guess.

xpost -- to be fair, props also go to Maslany's double, Kathryn Alexandre, who plays every single clone against Maslany each take. Weird that we never actually see her performance.

ok this show

This show rules so hard

zero sight or mention of paul for the last three eps hasn't hurt

i love how art, as mentioned upthread, has become imprisoned in some other show, a police procedural whose edges only rarely touch the show we're actually watching, so that he's always on the outside looking in

I don't remember now; did Helena ever see Art last season? Part of me thought it was weird that she sprinted past without even a double-take but that was quickly subsumed by the whole "running for her life from creepy religious eugenics cult" thing

I was reading a review in which they mentioned In The Flesh as another BBC America production that is similar to Orphan Black. It is on it's 2nd series and I had never even heard of it, not seen it mentioned on any of the tv threads either.

I watched the opening of the second season; it was okay. I feel like many of the SHOCKING events require seeing the first season and knowing the backstory in order for them to be shocking, because most of it was just "eh okay, zombies are whiny JUST LIKE US". (There were two cool moments, one with the supermarket flashback and one with the confrontation in the vicar's backyard, but neither was really enough for me to be terribly invested in the show.)

I asked my sister about the helena/art thing, and she seemed to think helena knew about him via beth. in S1 when she calls sarah-as-beth she mentions "your partner." she also shoots at him and sarah while they're trying to track her down, but that was sniper-style so idk.

Didn't Helena go to the police station pretending to be Sarah pretending to be Beth at one point?
Can't remember if Art was there or not.

maybe i'm just spacing it but who/what was the billowy presence in mrs. s's house that revealed itself when felix and sarah had just left?

Wasn't that Helena? (I was feeding children at the time and missed specifics but that was my assumption)

Yeah, that was Helena. She followed Sarah directly to Rachel's hotel.

I'm kind of lukewarm on Kira's dad/Nu-Daario.

Oh god it really is the same actor!!!

I feel kind of weird watching this show, as I'm not bothered either way about acting.

What's up with Art now? Is he on active duty?

I don't know who Nu-Daario is, but he also played Liam on Nashville.

Yeah, that was Helena. She followed Sarah directly to Rachel's hotel.

right but how did she get to Mrs. S's house from the nutter barn? did she TomTom it? not that it really matters because she is basically a ghost at this point whose peregrinations of vengeance need obey no earthly law, but i was a little bit "wha"

She'd been there before. She met Amelia (her and Sarah's birth mother) while tied up in Mrs. S' basement before escaping.

I'm assuming Helena has enough nous to get back to the city and make it to a place she'd been before. A place she knew that Sarah was likely to go back to.

rewatched s1 and caught up on s2 all in the past week. too much

diggin it, but not as much as s1. little too much of ppl switching back and forth from good/trustworthy to not for no good reason + ppl randomly showing up places they should have no knowledge of

eg at the motel where sarah gets nabbed and taken to s, why does the cylon show up? and when sarah disappears, art just . . . goes home?

paul sux. joaquin phoenix religious nut is a+ creepy tho

Some of the character switching is good. I love Helena's new status as a goodie/Sarah's unpredictable attack dog type character, it rules!

Who farted?

Shit. I keep forgetting to record this.

there's a "first world problem" for you

Mr Veg and I just started S1 on Saturday - we're 2 episodes away from being done as of last night :D
I have a crush on Paul i can't help it he's not even exactly always hot even I just liiiike him

Mr Veg keeps yelling about how it's the stupidest show, she just keeps running into warehouses and buildings and situations without the faintest idea of what she's doing or how to get out of it and can barely shoot a gun to protect herself. I pointed out the Blacklist woman is basically the same just uncloned but he got annoyed with me for saying that

I will rejoin thread when I've caught up

VG out

i think it's kinda spiraling out of control and mr veg isn't really wrong, but

she's so good, and i like her various characters. actress-playing-sarah-playing-alison was a+++

yeah i loved that!

love alison the most, so perfectly type-A

Alison is my favorite clone.

Veg, I think you'll like S2 a lot. It's moderately less stupid with a lot more peeling of the onion.

alison's response to a "namaste" bow thrown her way is immaculate

i have to admit i'm starting to get a little overwhelmed with the backstory at this point

There's definitely a lot to process, but the brief conversation Sarah has with Swan Man cleared up a lot of it really quickly.

Did it? I came out of that more confused than ever.

But then I am a moron.

Project Leda was military cloning research but was secretly used to create a daughter for that scientist and his scientist wife, Dyad took over the project and then the neolutionists inside Dyad (Leekie and others) went wild with the technology until the lab caught on fire and all the original dna recipes were lost. Also, Leekie presumably killed the lady scientist and ran her husband into hiding at some point.

Rachel is the prototype, though. It's still not clear who she's a clone of, though.

though

The Prometheans are the more confusing half of the saga.

Thanks, JF. A few too many shadowy conspirators within cabals for me to track.

Anyone else bothered by how Metrosexual Cowboy is so outwardly Draperesque?

hey JF did you catch what Nerd Lackey was saying to Frenchie in the lab? i rewound it twice but still didn't grok the import

Basically that the stem cell donor was Kira.

I don't remember the exact wording, but I think the medicine Cosima is getting was created by harvesting stems from not one of the clones, but either Sarah's daughter or....dunh dunh dunh!...another clone's offspring.

I could be totally wrong.

and then Frenchie was like *gasp* NEVER MENTION THIS TO COSIMA and i was like, er, what is going on here :(

Leee i've never seen mad men but by metrosexual cowboy are you talking about Paul? i first thought of Felix (chaps, anyone?) but he doesn't bear any resemblance to how i've heard people describe don draper. Paul, on the other hand... well he's an asshole, basically. i'm glad that he's seemingly becoming a full-fledged baddie. more of that, please, so that we can have some delicious comeuppance. hopefully at the hands of Vic.

and then Frenchie was like *gasp* NEVER MENTION THIS TO COSIMA and i was like, er, what is going on here :(

I read that as "Don't tell Cosima that we have Kira's genetic material," though re-thinking things I'm not sure how Dyad would've gotten it in the first place.

Tracer, not Paul! I meant the Prolethean guy -- is his name Mark? For a farmhand, he sure has a lot of product styling his hair, was the gist of my remark.

As for Vic, I'm actually looking forward to the Vic/Alison coupling that's surely in the works.

Weren't the stem cells from skin on baby teeth? Maybe when they raided S's house they found some of Kira's baby teeth saved on a shelf or something.

!!!

Is all I have to say about that.

lol that donnie

no but seriously holy shit

Jeeeeesus! I love this show.

I love the way characters like Donnie and Vic linger around the edges and get pushed into the spotlight when you don't expect it.

Don't eff with Donnie!!!!

go now. don't get in your car. don't go home. and you might survive.

^^^

or then again, you might not! whoopsie

aaaahhhh i got into this recently and it's the best thing ever, finally caught up so i can click on this thread

tatiana maslany's acting acrobatics are extraordinary

the writing is so well-paced, like it throws ten times as much plot at you as most shows do in any given episode and thematically and plotwise throws so many balls in the air, but revelations seem to happen at just the right time, and it has so much left to give - it's secretly so stingy about letting characters interact with each other, so each new pairing seems so fresh. helps that the characters could so easily be cardboard clichés but most are fleshed out so fully. i NEED several alison/helena scenes in my life soon.

"i can't believe you let a cop into clone club" #acab

"i don't have the temperament for jail. if anyone touches me in the shower, i will cut them" <= alison, you have exactly the right temperament for jail

Helena singing in the car and not knowing all the words brought so much joy into my life.

also loved how, esp in serason 1, the show's genre seemed to shift depending on which clone was being focused on. police procedural with sarah/beth, suburban black comedy with alison, sci-fi with cosima, horror with helena.

you know what i really loved in the last episode, which was excellent imo, and a welcome present-tense antidote to the mountains of backstory, was vic unexpectedly pleading with sarah to give him another chance. he had been thinking about this moment for DAYS and he was so sincere and pathetic but he has zero inkling of the craziness he's just touching the edges of. it's so earnestly off-base in exactly the way that people so often are.

xpost yes! i feel like that's definitely continued. this season we had our horror ep, replete with psycho shower scene. and the last episode but one was a kind of spooky japanese searching the dusty archives of an abandoned lunatic asylum type ting, mixed with a road movie i guess?

uh yikes i hope i haven't gone one episode too far here.. i think us/torrents are one ep ahead of the UK? eek

lol at alison 'i will cut them'

i think my favorite line is still helena in s1, while pinning sarah to the ground: '. . . a copy cop'

I was already having trouble keeping the titles of Orphan Black and Orange is the New Black sorted in my head, when Alison said that my brain imploded a little.

So that happened. I imagine the introduction of a new clone will play into the story later, but right now it seemed pointless?

i'm all caught up wee

yeah idg the point of tony except oh hey here's a boy

that 'beard' was the worst. it looked like double sided tape along her jawline

like i'm into them playing with gender but it all felt very hamhanded & clumsy

Right? A definite low point in the series.

Mr Veg & I were all

"..."

yeah this didn't work for me either. i mostly fault the hair/makeup design for not selling us on the new character: the beard was awful, but it also got visually "lost" in the hair around his shoulders, so there were a lot of scenes where it didn't look like a new bearded character, it just looked like sarah with bedhead.

i did like that tatiana's dude voice had distinct canadian inflections, though

The one bright spot this week? Alison and Donnie are primed to team up as a killer power couple.

yeah at first i thought it was she was sweaty & her hair was stuck to her face

well. kinda horribly startling for a show that was juggling so many balls so well with so many engrossing storylines on the go to suddenly, for no reason, get everything so horrendously and needlessly wrong all of a sudden. missed opportunity to do a trans clone well, too. they gave tony an out to disappear again and as much as that would imply a backtracking, i wouldn't be sad if that happened

most of the season has been spent with sarah/keira/s on the run. then they returned, but only with the safeguard of having rachel's dad as a hostage. which they now have given up.

i dunno, feels like we're just wandering around even apart from the tony stuff. helena needs to start killing ppl again just so everyone's minds are appropriately focused

otm

Show needed to press the reset button and slow down the hundred layers of narrative, but Tony wasn't the way to go about it.

i don't really get why they seemed to go to huge lengths to make helena both a sympathetic character and a hugely enjoyable screen presence, give her a cliffhanger ending, and then...completely excise her for two episodes

latest one would've been much better if all tony's scenes had been replaced by helena's adventures with the religious freaks (hopefully culminating in her gutting them)

http://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/04790310e06a28c1848e71ab8ecca75d/tumblr_n6lozmeZfE1qazp9mo2_500.png

I get the sense of "RIP Cosima, long live Tony."

I don't hate the Tony character. I DO hate the Tony makeup. I have no doubt this is the kind of show that would kill off a beloved character at the drop of a hat, so Cosima very well could be toast.

bf and i are divided on how they killed off dr leekie - he hates it, feels leekie's storyline wasn't resolved; i loved it, felt like such an extra twist of contempt that someone who we'd so recently thought as the big bad villain should meet his fate at the hands of DONNIE HENDRIX by ACCIDENT. how (or if?) rachel knows about this seems an unresolved plot point though. and they did bring in marion as a new potential dyad villain but like helena's storyline seem to have dropped her temporarily to bring in tony.

i feel like the other clones should be more worried about cosima - i know she kept her sickness hidden from them for ages but surely they must know they could all get it too (as, for all sarah knows, could kira).

i kinda feel both of those things: it was fucking hilarious that donnie whacked him, so ignoble, but at the same time dr. leekie seemed to get lost in the s2 shuffle with all the focus on the proleathiens and project LEDA people. i was waiting for the show to bring him back to the forefront but nope, whacked by donnie hendrix. what are his glowy-eyed rave cultists going to do without their leader?

how (or if?) rachel knows about this seems an unresolved plot point though.

I think she assumes that he took her advice and went into hiding and that he's smart enough to not resurface. The heart attack story is just a cover for that, but I guess it wouldn't hold up to much scrutiny if anyone, for instance, asked to see the body.

is it bad that I don't really care if cosima kicks the bucket?

I never really took to her

they did bring in marion as a new potential dyad villain

Nearly forgot about her! <3 Michelle Forbes, Ro Laren 4everz.

feel like leekie's death will only be worthwhile if it galvanizes donnie into some kind of badass, but i don't really see that happening

it doesn't resolve anything, it just adds yet another layer with ensign ro. also i thought leekie was a good character -- smarmy as fuc, willing to have ppl killed, but also maaaaaaybe not totally evil

also i don't get why leekie took the fall? why was it his fault sarah's running amok? rachel couldn't get her to sign, paul was actively helping her before he wasn't, the cylon who failed was rachel's, etc

lol i think that's the most i have ever written about a tv show

he was gotten rid of because he had rachel's mother killed

I would be so much more amenable to Tony if he wasn't shipped off on a bus at the end of the episode.

his hair was the worst. really bad.

I feel like the show is getting unweildy right now, they didn't need to add more characters at this point.

It's not as bad as Lost, which had threads just wandering off into nowhere. It's just that all the threads of this story are so information-crowded that they need to tie some of them off soon or else I'm not going to be able to keep up.

i'm already confused about mrs s

also hope they never show that lady cop again, she was the worst actress ever

They did exactly that, but in a scene that was AWESOME.

I didn't realize the season was so close to completion, but I really like where it's going I think. Also, HELENA HELENA HELENA!

PREDICTION: In the preview for next week's finale, it's actually Helena that's saying "this is Sarah Manning, and this is my unconditional surrender."

when sarah was thrashing around in the promo, i thought it seemed more like something helena would do...but otoh i don't think we've ever heard helena manage a different accent when she's impersonated other clones in the past.

speaking of accents, i felt like a right fool when rachel showed up to take kira and i thought "hmm, tatiana must be slipping, her sarah accent sounded like rachel just then." i will never doubt you again tatiana!

all caught up

1) tony was amazing, fuck the haterz. i can go on about this at length if required. yes it was jarring and strange and not-quite-convincing, and yes tony was foregrounding his masculinity at the expense of much else; to me it was totally in keeping with the idea of a woman attempting to be a man and failing at it a bit. by the end i was just like yeah, this is tony. he's kind of a weird randy dude with a weird goatee and looks exactly like sarah, beth, rachel etc.

2) not sure what was up with donnie and the liquor bottles

3) that said... DONNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4) helena and david koresh dude.... omg this fuckin show

5) i LOVE how helena and grace each tried to kill each other a few days ago and are now like best buds

6) slightly concerned that a houseful of children has just been murdered by helena

7) still kinda confused about the actual plot, and what rachel wants with kira

like, at a fundamental level i just don't get why anyone wants to kidnap kira, for any sort of experiment or whatever. i sort of get that her bone marrow might save cosima's life, and thus possibly the lives of other clones, but why does rachel/dyad care about her?

and while i'm laying my ignorance out on the table, why do the proletheans care about helena? she's just another "brood-mare" *shudder* to them..... why does it matter if she's a clone or not?

like, i feel like these are the big motivational drivers for the show's plot and i'm totally in the dark about them, which generally doesn't matter because i'm just along for the ride and everything else is so good

i'm not sure why they care so much about clone offspring either. when rachel's dad said they were intentionally designed not to reproduce, and that sarah's fertility was a mistake, i kind of thought "oh, okay, so kira's a fluke, nothing so important." but then again, kira basically has superpowers, so there's got to be more to it. i do wonder what dyad will do now that the proletheans are handing out helena's fertilized eggs like candy.

also one of the showrunners posted on twitter that the kids made it out of the fire, they just weren't able to shoot the scene showing it.

i loled at rachel's super-pink fluffy bedroom for kira

also... like.... sorry to be dim but... the proletheans think that clones are evil and must be exterminated and that genetic engineering is against god's will.... and then... they decide that implanting fetuses into a clone's uterus is a really awesome idea?? not saying that lunatic cultists have to be logical, but i'm not really getting even the looking-glass rationale behind any of that

Isn't it that we're looking at two different factions of Proletheans?
One is (eastern) european and rabidly anti-science and find the clones to be abominations. The other is (north) american and uses science to "go forth and be fruitful".
The latter faction finds a clone designed to be barren that can reproduce to be a miracle and miracles are to be encouraged.
At least that's what it seems like to me.

helena also has like magic healing powers and a heart in the wrong place and stuff.

and i thought rachel took the kid because she can't have her own and kira is the closest she'll come.

I think Dyad wants Kira for observation and science purpose. I think Rachel wants Kira because she thinks she deserves a child.

so she thinks she can just.... steal one from sarah??

she has some issues

Isn't it that we're looking at two different factions of Proletheans?

i guess that's it, yeah

i think the proletheans (N.A.), the proletheans (EU) and the neolutionists should have a dance-off in that body-mod club

Seems like maybe the Proletheans have been dispatched with? There can't be that many of them left, and obviously Grace and her bf are out of the club. It's interesting how the villains keep getting pared away -- dude with the tail, Leekie, Prolethean baddies 1 and 2. But every time it happens, there's another level up.

the (north) american group seemed less a prolethean thing than that dude's cult

seemed a bit out of character for grace + bf to leave dude to helena's devices, but whatever

yeah that felt like a real 180

I think the groundwork for their disillusionment was laid pretty well.

yeah, they had snapped out of his spell

I think Dyad wants Kira for observation and science purpose. I think Rachel wants Kira because she thinks she deserves a child.

Dyad probably think that Kira is their IP, too.

the (north) american group seemed less a prolethean thing than that dude's cult

Still Proles in name at least, cos they were rocking the logo everywhere.

WELL DAMN

My wife notes that next season Rachel will have a badass eyepatch.

I hope Rachel is dead because they already pulled the "clone is supposedly dead but comes back" card in last season's finale.

Did that pencil go in deep enough to pierce her brain? If so, maybe.

I still kind of view Rachel as a sympathetic character, so I really hope she isn't dead.

Siobhan selling out Helena was fucking rotten.

yeah i doubt rachel's dead, when she fell to the floor her expression was less "i'm dying" and more "jesus fuck what has my life become."

i couldn't fully enjoy the clone dance party because they kept showing kira dancing all by herself, and i was super-paranoid that someone was going to bust through the window behind her and grab her. but my sister pointed out that it was already a herculean feat to get four clones and felix in the same shot, let alone a child actor with limited work-time, so it makes sense that they'd keep her to one side.

if they were going to make the dude clones someone we had already met, i guess creepy mark was a good choice. i wonder if mark knows he's a clone? i hope not, i don't want him to be pulling one over on poor gracie.

it felt like kind of a meh reveal though it being mark

kinda hoped for more Pauls :D
but that's just me

kinda feels like show is either going to balloon out into even more ridic storylines now or (hopefully) tighten up into one or two good ones

kinda hoped for more Pauls :D
but that's just me

Yes I think it's just you.

Unless you have "sisters."

So giving up Helena to the military is, what, Mrs. S's way of getting protection for Sarah and Kira?

I think Helena knew something like this was going down -- that's why she was about to skip town while leaving what I presume are her eggs in Felix's loft.

It's been a season of disgusting violence to the head for the show's I'm watching this year, gah.

i thought the boy clones might be paul too. i feel bad because the actor who plays paul seems really cute in interviews/on twitter, but i think he's a snooze on the show.

also paul's sidekicks were the fattest army guys I've ever seen

Was the MacGyvered pencil gun even necessary? Since Michelle Forbes basically sprang Sarah anyway.

But Cosima had no way of knowing that, right?

Anyway, I loved the set-up to that whole thing, teaching Kira about velocity and having her draw the picture. It didn't make any sense -- surely Dyad has security cameras in Cosima's lab, even if they've told her they don't? But it was a hell of a payoff.

the pencil gun was dumb

whoa

well i feared the worst after the tony episode but this show just pulled itself back from the brink, even aside from the narrative bombshells, there were so many brilliant scenes - clone club dance-off obv (love how long they spun it out, they deserve to be proud of it!) but cosima/kira interacting, the rachel/ethan death scene, helena's coyness about burning down the ranch.

boy clones have been a bubbling under possibility for a while now and i think most people would've assumed felix, and i love how the script nodded to that with felix saying he was allowed into the clones-only night. did not want paul clones! i mean the more we see of that actor's body the better but no way could he pull off the acting required.

every explanation to date has less been an explanation and more a reveal of something else that requires explanation

why did helena leave secretly and how did the military know to wait for her to come out of the apartment first?

i'd really like them to wrap up cosima's deathbed storyline asap next season (preferably with her living), it's been a good narrative but she's been wheezing and coughing for a good half season now

yeah it's getting a bit too les mis

every explanation to date has less been an explanation and more a reveal of something else that requires explanation

otm. kinda worried that this will keep happening until at the end everyone just goes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ tho

btw back toward the end of season 1 when kira was in the hospital after being hit by the car, a shocked nurse looked at her scan and said, 'doctor, you better take a look at this.' did we ever find out anything about that? like was it something strange or just kira magically healing herself?

why did helena leave secretly

I think she was going to look for the guy in the bar. He's the only man who's ever shown her affection and she thinks that half hour of flirting was true love. That's just a guess based on the way the camera kept focusing on the trucker cap.

the more we see of that actor's body the better

this is the primary appeal of Paul clones tbh

Though I don't think he's that bad an actor, but then again, I was fond of Jamie Bamber in BSG so ...

one thing that should probably have happened a bit more is more concern over this respiratory disease among the clones - it's been presented v much as a cosima plotline, cosima's problem, but surely the minute the others got wind of it, aside from their concern for cosima there should have been self-interested panic? at this point it's not just possible but probably that they'll contract it as well. even sarah - we know she's different in that she can have kids, but nothing indicates that she's immune to this. certainly alison and especially rachel should be fearful that it's coming for them too.

I think the show suggests that the respiratory ailment is tied to the auto-immune disorder that was engineered to make the clones infertile.

It was stated pretty explicity, IIRC. Cosima's ailment spread from her ovaries into her lungs.

I wish the season would've been 13 episodes instead of 10. Not so they could tell any more story for the season, but to let the story they did tell breathe a little bit. Also, it would mean I could get to watch it for another three weeks.

otm

otm

this was fuckin crazy

bigstyle cronenberg move when rachel stamps all over the broken vials of stem-cell blood with her impeccable high heels

disagree about fire extinguisher, i thought it was rad and the build-up with kira was thrilling

opening sequence thrilling too, but disorienting. maybe i'm just lol old but i think this show could do with just a touch more explanation. not saying every show needs to have one character explaining the plot up to that point to another, but just a touch of that would help me enjoy the spills n frights and double-switch backs a bit more without anxiously fumbling for the remote control to hear back half a word that i missed

my bf is ALWAYS confused about something or other after orphan black's best (most fast-paced, densely-packed) episodes but i find i rarely am? i think packing incredible amounts of plot into a time that shouldn't be able to hold it all is one of its biggest strengths.

i have to say i kiiiinda miss the Old Sarah. you don't realise how much she's changed since the start until you rewatch an early clip, and while her narrative arc is sort of the point, it's a pity being a Heroic Selfless Mother seems to increasingly preclude her being surly or sarky or just plain rude

and i def hope they bring alison and donnie into the main fold rather than continuing to give them suburbia-confined drama

yes. alison has the steeliest backbone out of all of them.

can i just say how much i fucking love helena? i honestly came close to crying, watching her mischievous replies to art, and then when kira ran into her arms, my god

i honestly didn't follow the whole cal reverse hacking thing, and what role paul was playing, or how he got involved, or what he even helped with :(

(or why mrs. s gave up helena for that matter. was it quid pro quo? paul, who's involved with project castor, agreed to help spring kira and sarah in exchange for bringing helena into the project castor fold? and even though it's a male program they're interested in her because... she's such an effective killing machine? or something?)

presumably we will find out next season why they want her? maybe because she is potentially fertile and they want to breed the girl clones with the boy clones or something?

maybe, maybe - i like THAT kind of mystery. i don't so much like it when one character says "remind me what we're doing here?" and i'm like "awesome, bringin' it down to earth" and the other person says something like "finding out just whose side we're really on....." HOWEVER i fully admit that i have trouble understanding all kinds of shows these days which is probably a function of poor speakers on my old television, through-the-roof earwax buildup, a modern tendency to cloak the plot in all kinds of portentous hints as well as sound designers getting a little too fancy with the mix

peak helena was clearly her revenge on henrik. "horse babies...or cow babies?" "do i look like i'm trying to be funny?"

just thinking about her saying those lines brings me so much joy

hahaha

lex otm, I miss the old Sarah too!

we STILL don't know why she left Kira with Ms. S for an entire year, right? i guess she was just being a "bad mom" and dealing drugs and sleeping with dudes like vic?

iirc she ran off with money Vic was supposed to have for some bad(der) guys and that's why he's now missing a couple fingers.

she ran off with the coke that he needed to sell for the badder guys

it's cool, he's a dick

ahhh so she absconded with the coke and laid low for an entire year? without seeing her kid? i see.. that makes sense. that is fuckin rough though. kind of understandable that she's being a bit overprotective now (and maybe trying to turn a new leaf)

nah i think she and vic went off grifting (iirc he once reminisced about 'that time in myrtle beach' which seemed like a strange reference), leaving kira (and felix!) behind, then a year later she got fed up with vic, clobbered him with an ashtray, absconded with the coke and went back to toronto.

either way, tho, it's a remarkable/implausible transition from that to our current heroine. also i miss when she ended all her sentences with 'yah?'

ok gotcha. well whatever the explanation for the missing year i don't think it's implausible that she's come to her senses and is trying to make up for lost time on the mommy front

did we ever find out the mystery set up in the very first episode, i.e. why beth childs killed herself?

omg there's an Orphan Black wiki: http://orphanblack.wikia.com/wiki/Orphan_Black_Wiki

She found out her boyfriend was actually there to watch her and she'd shot a woman and was incredibly depressed by both, iirc xp

As of Season 2, 13 female clones have been introduced, namely (in order of appearance):

Sarah Manning
Elizabeth Childs (deceased)
Katja Obinger (deceased)
Janika Zingler (deceased)
Aryanna Giordano (deceased)
Danielle Fournier (deceased)
Alison Hendrix
Cosima Niehaus
Helena
Rachel Duncan
Jennifer Fitzsimmons (deceased)
Tony Sawicki
Charlotte Bowles

^Charlotte was created 20 years after the other clones from Project Leda, due to a repeated (and succeeded) attempt at making more clones from the same batch. She is the sole survivor of 800 attempts to recreate a clone from this batch.

Think about if none of the clones had died and Tatiana Maslany had to juggle 12 roles on the reg.

Out of curiosity, I looked up to see who played young Charlotte on the suspicion that she was the same actress that plays Kira. She's not, though the actress whom see as Charlotte also plays young Rachel Duncan in those home videos.

Yeah, they definitely cast the same kid from Rachel's home videos. That's why Sarah freaked out a little bit when she was introduced to Charlotte, because it was like looking at herself 20 years ago.

this is a total aside but did anyone else half-expect Tony to start calling Felix "Khalisi"?

lol

http://www.nerdist.com/pepisode/nerdist-writers-panel-146-orphan-black/

http://31.media.tumblr.com/9caf17e63b7cddbdddb60a4d1496eaf4/tumblr_n7qbds45D31qhyhwto1_500.jpg http://38.media.tumblr.com/ed9ac822acf838fc0a618f6230847015/tumblr_n7s52gqQMa1qhyhwto1_500.jpg

Phil Noto has painted Sarah and Helena. I suspect more are coming. http://philnoto.tumblr.com/

i started that podcast episode, salivating over hearing from THE CREATORS of this amazing show and had to turn it off after 15 minutes or so. the interviewer's sycophantic jockeying is incredibly off-putting, he just can't help dropping in his own little two cents to show that he knows the lingo of The Craft or whatever. and, maybe, i dunno, it's all just so inside baseball, so deadly dull. ask better questions!! why did you want to tell this story? how important is the science? how would you describe the show's political stance? do you talk about these questions with your writers? etc

i started to watch that 'cloneversation' season preview back in april and lasted maybe 90 seconds. it was like the creepiest fkn infomercial ever

It wasn't creepy as much as it was incredibly boring

It seemed like it was trying to gin up cult status for a show that already seems like a cult hit anyway

wil wheaton was creepily game-show-host as the interviewer, they should've gotten tatiana to portray wil wheaton as the interviewer instead.

however i appreciated it because they used my little sister's fan art in one of their montages! she was so stoked, she had to sign a release and everything.

I was confused about the shot of the nitrogen can Helena left in the Loft. I thought for a few minutes that she was going to blow the rest of them up. But presumably it was what she used to...ignite the fire at the ranch? something? dunno. It was a weird thing to focus on.

Disappointed they showed Angela D'Angelis again, hope she's gone for good.

i think it had something to do with her... eggs? rudimentary fetii?

Disappointed they showed Angela D'Angelis again, hope she's gone for good.

she's an awesome heel though! love to hate her

xp that's what I'm thinking. There's clonespawn in there!

I binged watched both seasons in the space of about 2 1/2 weeks. I love all the clones, but felt the story in S2 got a little muddled up into a byzantine web of "I can't trust anyone". And I'm less than thrilled of the prospect of the male clones, partly because I have no interest in seeing that actor try and pull the same routine as TM. That said, I'd probably keep watching the show primarily to see Helena fight her way out of whatever hellhole they've got waiting for her (and ultimately choke Mrs S to death presumably) and of course Alison, who is the show's most consistently entertaining character.

"make better use of alison" is top of my wishlist for the next season, as much as i appreciate her desperate housewives subplots they've grown a little too far outside everyone else

the nitrogen does contain helena's eggs - they actually focused on it in an earlier scene at henrik's farm, i didn't notice at the time but they do flag these things up...

wil wheaton was creepily game-show-host as the interviewer, they should've gotten tatiana to portray wil wheaton as the interviewer instead.

She would've have to use her Tony beard, FYI.

I was confused about the shot of the nitrogen can Helena left in the Loft

i think it had something to do with her... eggs? rudimentary fetii?

Ugh you guys, un-killfile me! TWAIN Acquire - the ORPHAN BLACK thread

PS I had an ultra-violent dream about season 3, with boy clones doing lots of killing trying to impress girl clones, oops, spoilers.

I've just finished season 1 (loads of fun) and I'm still none the wiser as to what 'Twain acquire' means.

This is how good Maslany's acting is: There was an episode which didn't feature Alison, and I caught myself thinking a few times 'Oh, the actress who plays her must've been on holiday when they filmed this'.

Haha!

Her London accent's a bit rubbish though. She does better as the posh English one that's just popped up.

how is felix's

Not too bad, I thought he might be English IRL.

A little over-mannered maybe.

"twain acquire" was an old command in photoshop when you wanted to scan an image. "twain" means two, or twin. the origin of the term in computing is interesting:

http://foldoc.org/twain

The word "twain" is an archaic form meaning "two". It appears in Kipling's "The Ballad of East and West" - "...and never the twain shall meet...", reflecting the difficulty, at the time, of connecting scanners and personal computers. It was up-cased to TWAIN to make it more distinctive. This led people to believe it was an acronym, and then to a contest to come up with an expansion. None were selected, but the entry "Technology Without An Interesting Name" continues to haunt the standard.

it's a good thread title

i think the minneapolis bio grad student clone was in my program at the u of m, all they'd have to do to make her more realistic is give her a co-op membership

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/18/cosima-herter-orphan-black-science-interview_n_5508722.html

i find it hard to get a bead on the relations to power in this show or in ones with similar setups. they seem exemplified by the total mystery about why why the powerful corporations who seem like they could act with impunity do not, but then sometimes do. like, given the way that dyad acts, its focus on acquiring sarah and kira without kidnapping them often seems totally arbitrary, since they're willing to kill and kidnap and perform procedures without consent and surveil and whatever else they like. sometimes they prefer other means because of the convenience of not having to deal with the law or the government, i guess, and because they profit from anything they can do to establish the legitimacy of what they do through legal means (thus the A+ bummer horror of reading the code at the end of s01), but in-show, it is often unclear why any of these choices is made. that seemed especially the case when matt frewer was coming around in s01 to offer contracts, which aside from the vague promised benefit of receiving medical attention (only obviously pressing for cosima), seemed to be premised on the absurd bargain of not being fucked with in exchange for subjecting the signees to data-collection, medical tests, etc. - which the clones are then thinking about seriously, as if 'sign this and we won't fuck with you' was the start of a reasonable bargain!

in a similar way, shows like this really like to imagine the people at the top (or seemingly at the top) as sort of having mastered the affect of command, so they become all classy and chilly and impersonal (w/ opportunity for breakdowns or secret forms of release), but somehow all the interactions seem too small-scale to really permit the right extent of distribution of power. the real proportion between that level of personal ability to command obedience and compliance, and the kinds of effects that it has on the people who suffer under it, seems like it calls for layers and layers and layers of bureaucracy and society between. but the fantasy/fear in this mode of storytelling is that you get a chance to walk right up to these people and choke them or stab them and then it doesn't even get you what you want - which a show like this recognizes but kind of perpetually loses sight of as someone habors yet another urge to kill one of those powerful people.

there's something about golden-child plots, and especially about golden-child plots combined with fertility-based thematics (something similar could happen with male characters i think, as all kinds of spy and military fiction shows - no surprise that the s03 reveal was what it was), that makes a show have an over-fondness for kidnap plotlines. and something about those makes me bored fast. like, after the second or third time a kid has been lost, or a lead has been absconded with, there's no narrative tension in it.

obviously a big ultimate target of plots with themes like these is that the protagonists or the viewers confront the horrific idea that they bring these things on themselves, they choose the lie rather than the truth (somewhat allison's situation), their hearts lead them into danger (cosima), they throw in with their enemies to protect the ones they love despite knowing their hands are forced and they will be betrayed… just the kind of feelings power loves.

Arrrgh season 2 is frustratingly muddled. The pacing is shot to hell. Pity. Two episodes left and it's become a bit of a slog.

Yeah I've given up on the plot at this point.

Still love the characters/acting though.

Maslany is obviously superb, love Felix too. Lots of the peripheral performances are pretty shoddy though.

feel kinda bad for art -- it's a half-assed, cliche-ridden role

next season should just be sarah + helena road trippin

Helena may be my favourite clone.

it all comes good in the last two eps imo

Helena is the best

all four of the main clones rule IMO; I can make a case for each of them

(some cases are easier than others, I admit)

Alison/Cosima/Felix still my favourite characters

Caught Diary of the Dead the other day. Enjoyed seeing Maslany in the cast. Going down her IMDB credits, sure I've seen "Alphas" and "Stir of Echoes: The Homecoming", but she doesn't pop to mind. Longer list than I expected.

t all comes good in the last two eps imo

― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand

The last ep was decent yeah, they slowed down and took stock a bit. Overall I still feel they dropped the ball with season 2, too much narrative circling and dead ends, motives and allegiances shifting so quickly that it was a headache keeping track. It would've benefited from putting on the brakes a bit pace-wise (thought the rapid pace worked very well in S1, OTOH).

We've been chaining this completely over the last couple of weeks, I'm now about halfway through S2 (the original scientist has just turned up hanging with Mrs S). Pretty much loving it, although the series is kind of hampered by the lack of a decent villain - I don't really care about the people leading these rivals camps. Plus points for finally turning Helena from marauding monster into a recognisable human being though.

Alison is totally the best clone, a much needed dose of Walter White surburban dorkiness amidst all the madness, which I guess is why they've kept her anchored to her home up til now.

The Meredith Brooks fight scene was just perfect TV.

Still wondering what happened to the $1500 worth of cocaine that's been sitting in Felix's drawer since episode one despite the characters having multiple financial problems.

I thought he sold it by somewhere around ep 3 or so.

i wouldn't be surprised if he blew it all on a particularly fun john

he said he sold it to pay for sarah's fake wake, but yeah it seems like there should be a bit left over

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/magazine/the-many-faces-of-tatiana-maslany.html

h/t the lex

When's season three of this? Undecided as to whether I'll bother.

talk to the hamd

Starts in about two weeks iirc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Vhk6rb-Gc

Paul's finally got a character trait: stubble!

you can watch the first season of this free on Amazon today, apparently

I have to say: you are not who I would've expected to revive this thread.

i didnt know what the show was til that NYT Mag piece above ran.

i'm not watching or anything

This show is too fucking thick with plots and subplots and subsubsubplots now. Give me some air, jeezus.

yeah it's not even a web anymore it's just a huge ball of threads

i still like it but i have no idea what is even happening anymore

would it be a good idea to rewatch last ep of S2 before going in on this?

my only recollection is "we haz male clone now, and somehow he is also a prolethean"

Given the endless expansion of the overlapping conspiracies, I think the show does a good job keeping things more or less coherent. When they add a new thread or layer, it doesn't contradict what we already know, it just shifts it. I enjoyed this episode, but I feel bad that Helena keeps ending up imprisoned. She's been locked up by like 4 or 5 different groups at this point.

would it be a good idea to rewatch last ep of S2 before going in on this?

It wouldn't be a bad idea. I wish I would have done it.

Ooookay: "All season 3 episode titles are quotes from the farewell address of Dwight Eisenhower.[5]"

Someone refresh my memory on what "Topside" is and whether or not I've heard of it/them before. And who is Ferdinand?

I like badass Delphine at least.

Delphine is so boring to me :/

This show is too fucking thick with plots and subplots and subsubsubplots now. Give me some air, jeezus.

― Johnny Fever

This sums up my issues with s2. Very little forward narrative momentum, lots of swimming round in circles.

topside is a.... military cloning program or something, right?

For all that it's still stupendously enjoyable and they've created a number of highly watchable characters (even if most of them are played by Maslany).

The show is mostly terrible at giving us villains, especially non-clone ones. Would give anything for a Littelfinger or a Gus Fring or a Governor rather than an interchangeable parade of sinister dudes who get taken out every other episode.

re: topside, in s2e10 sarah asks marian bowles "what is topside?"

bowles says it's a consortium of private companies that steers the dyad group and sarah says "so, you're a cabal?" and bowles is like yes duh

Oh right! Still vague tho.

i think all along i've watched this for the immediate threats and individual subplots each clone is facing rather than...whatever the overarching conspiracy is meant to be. it's the kind of show where you have to just swallow the info you're given and run with it, and it does a superb job of feeding you enough character moments and understandable subplots to ward off the confusion actually affecting my enjoyment

this premiere took a few bumpy scenes to settle down (opening kooky dream sequence had me fearing the worst) but once ferdinand came in and we settled into some good old clone-imitating-clone action it was right back to the show i loved last time

Alison making Donnie ride the schoolbus was lol

gf is screaming at the television with this rn

Definitely felt like the opening episode was just throwing too much at the viewer. It felt even faster than the previous season, but also felt rushed with the sense that everything felt lower stakes than it actually was. The scenes with Mrs S were particularly poor.

On the other hand the scenes with Alison and Donny were terrific and I hope they keep them anchored in suburbia. I like that the idea of bumping off her electoral rival and burying her in the garage is clearly already beginning to form in Alison's mind, even if she won't actually follow through with it.

I made my peace with the fact this this is an exceptional B-list show rather than a good A-list show some time back (which I think is a bit like what lex is saying above) and that has helped me handle the ridiculous wordiness of it. Like fuckin a, can you guys stop talking about what's happening, and just have the things happen?

I think they forgot that this was the season premiere of a show that has been off the air for almost a year and that many people probably haven't revisited since then.

yeah watching s2e10 helped out A LOT.

I made my peace with the fact this this is an exceptional B-list show rather than a good A-list show some time back

One of the things I love best about it -- it isn't trying to be prestige TV, it's happy to be very entertaining pulp TV. (Which makes it a lot more fun than a lot of prestige TV, and better too, imo.)

second ep of the new season has leaked btw.

Eh, if I watched it now, I would have nothing to do on Saturday night.

(because I am old and currently unemployed and have no money to do otherwise fun things on Saturday nights)

The Blade Runner aspects of the show have peeked out before, but this episode was like wall-to-wall Blade Runner tribute: the retina exams, the origami, the whole "we must find the secrets of our creator before we die."

Also, in re: Castor, I just got around to Googling and realized he is (mythologically) Leda's son. So either that means ur-Sarah is the mother of ur-Mark ... or they're just messing with us.

i feel like i have settled back in, liked this ep!!

yeah i've given up on expecting it to make sense overall, just going with the flow. this one was okay!

hope helena gets to kick some ass soon

otm

tipsy otm re bladerunnerpalooza. sadly no cartwheels or clear plastic trenchcoat...yet

i'm enjoying this as much as ever have but it really is remarkable how i can have so little idea what's going on in a show with so many conversations that are nothing but exposition

lol otm

enjoying alison & donnie

one day, i kill you all

feel like it really helps that we see so much through sarah's perspective, which is of course also not knowing what the hell is going on. why do they suddenly think henrik had the original genome? (but it's in the dr moreau book, right? does only cosima know this?) too bad mark and gracie didn't think of reading the papers in that box.

interesting to see them start killing off the male clones just as soon as they introduce them...not that i think mark is necessarily dead (was totally surprised NOT to see sarah save him though). the threesome scene was so creepy and so very in character for this show.

happy that kira and cal have been exiled, long may they stay that way.

this season does feel a bit more...patched-together than it has previously - some of their jokes are pure fandom-bait, not that they don't work anyway; and to an extent it feels like the clones are all reprising past storylines right now (helena gets tortured, alison's in desperate housewives, cosima's doing science, sarah's running around getting into scrapes) - and i hope to GOD the writers have something actually mapped out bc it doesn't feel like that yet. but still highly enjoyable, i def want the alison subplot to join up to the rest and the helena subplot to go somewhere more interesting (where is that base meant to be btw - surely not canada!), but they still get great one-liners where they are...

Helena's scorpion spirit guide is fun

i love that helena's first instinct to put the clone out of its misery was STAB IN BRANE

I know, right? I figured she'd cut his jugular or something but, hey, brain is wide open, there

Helena's scorpion spirit guide is fun

― ultimate american sock (mh), Monday, May 11, 2015 12:03 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah i thought it was a dodgy gimmick for no reason at first but i love it now

loved the entire helena plot this week, i think this season's definitely got into its groove w/r/t dividing its time between the plots, though i hope there's some sort of long game to bring them together - alison is almost wholly in a different show right now. lol @ the meta breaking bad reference to stave off the criticism that this plot has been already done a lot

i also like how it never gives sarah action heroine powers - twice this episode she'd disappeared from her hiding place but she didn't magically drop down out of nowhere and win the fight; she's clever and resourceful and tough but she's still in over her head.

the whole topside/marion bowles stuff that i never fully understood seems to have been put on a back burner - odd given how they built it up as the New Big Bad last season but i can't say i mind

There definitely seem to have been budget cuts this season - have we seen any of the clones in the same room as one another at all? I'm not sure we've even seen two Marks appear onscreen at once but I miss the female clones (ie the ones we actually care about) interacting in ways that aren't by phone or Skype.

I've only seen the first episode of the new season but there are multiple scenes with more than one clone in that one alone.

Can't quite remember, they are mostly in entirely different places from one another during the subsequent episodes, and the whole thing feels a bit disjointed.

I need a scorpion spirit guide.

last episode ended with prob the most emotionally intense scene between two male clones yet

the separation of the female clones seems as much to do with the plots leading them apart as anything else

we also had the two male clones hanging out being #lads before one of them had his brain break.

i'm not sure how locks work but helena making a perfectly fitting key using her teeth seems somewhat implausible. but okay. i hope she manages to do something besides suffer soon, but it doesn't look too likely.

imo her making a bump key with a bone was one of the most ridiculously Helena things we've been given recently

i was running down the male clones (i call them all Mark)

crazy bladerunner Mark (dead)
scar Mark
cult Mark - formerly mustache Mark
good soldier Mark
are there any others?

also was the Mark that got stabbed in the brain the same crazy bladerunner dead one? or was that a different one

cosima removed crazy bladerunner dead mark's brain in felix's bath, right? and presumably still has that brain. or am i confused

They all look the same to me.

xpost ohhh thats right. so brain-stab is different again

brain-stab is called parsons and we hadn't seen him before

erm would that actually be...medically possible? to keep someone alive with their brain exposed like that? surely not?

idk. surely not?

lol didnt mean to repeat you there sorry

Not long-term, but yeah, you can live just fine with your brain exposed

the brain itself can't sense pain, either, so stabbing him in the exposed brain wouldn't have hurt

orphan black is really like a scifo melrose place when you get right down to it

sciFI

i feel more disturbed for knowing the brain thing is medically possible than when actually seeing it

lol

caught up; i'm into it. the only bad thing was art suddenly admitting he loved beth (and presumably sarah), but i guess they need some rationale for him continuing to appear

i still find the frenchy girlfriend suuuuper annoying

I find her "annoying" in the ilx meaning

She's at least half-evil, so I think she's supposed to be kind of annoying. But all the Leda clones have pretty dubious taste in significant others.

I still don't get why they're invoking the Leda-Castor mythology without someone going "Wait, Castor was her son ..." Cosima doesn't have time to Google?

And I could be wrong that that will be the eventual reveal, but it seems like something someone would at least mention. (In which case, the original Leda I guess would be a former wife of Johanssen's? It's obviously not Bonnie.)

someone (probably cosima) actually did mention the mother-son thing a couple episodes ago

if I could be a clone, I would be Cosima

Simone doesn't strike me as evil so much as, like, that thing when someone who clearly isn't cut out for it and knows they aren't cut out for it gets promoted to a management position and their ill-preparedness for the position manifests as high-strung assholishness in the office but you know they go home at night and sob copiously about their poor life decisions over multiple bottles of wine.

someone (probably cosima) actually did mention the mother-son thing a couple episodes ago

Oh ok -- I thought she was leaping to them being siblings (hence Sarah calling Mark her "brother"), on the basis of them sharing half their genetic material or whatever. When presumably a mother-child set would also share half their DNA. I guess I'm thinking there's a reveal yet to come there, but maybe not.

kinda prefer when ('our') clones have separate storylines -- when they're all together it feels a little stunt-y. when allison, especially, is out on her own she seems so different that i kind of forget maslany is playing them all

sarah's newfound loyalty to her 'brothers' is pretty contrived, but whatevs

and yeah, whacking dude once with a shovel and then running into a building isn't a genius plan

that was so dumb

plus she had a handgun!

when allison, especially, is out on her own she seems so different that i kind of forget maslany is playing them all

I'm realizing how easily I can lose sight of this fact now that the initial hubbub over her chops has died down some. It just dawned on me again this week during Helena's scenes: all of these women are the same actress! I really hope she has a long and distinguished career beyond this show.

Her scorpion voice acting might be one of my favorite characters yet

Yes. Reminds me a bit of Marcel the Shell.

i kind of hate the scorpion

sry

imagine it saying "Helena! redrum!"

i still sometimes catch myself thinking i've forgotten who the actress playing one of the clones is and then it's like, oh, right

caught up; i'm into it. the only bad thing was art suddenly admitting he loved beth (and presumably sarah), but i guess they need some rationale for him continuing to appear

― mookieproof, Friday, May 15, 2015 2:19 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this annoyed me too, and also, isn't the fact that beth was his partner enough? it would have been if she'd been a man

very effective way to lead up to the STD bombshell this week

If these Mark clones have been running around bonking so many women, as the little black books suggest, there must be some kind of mini-epidemic of weird bloodshot-eye stuff right? (Plus whatever else it does.) And why the locks of hair? In general I have enjoyed the show's layers-upon-layers, but at a certain point it starts to feel like "Random weird thing to throw in the mix."

I assumed the locks of hair were genetic material for future experiments. I honestly don't care about the whole plotline with the male clones, would be quite happy to see the entire base blown up with all the Marks in it.

Nonetheless, Helena had all the best lines this week.

caught up; i'm into it. the only bad thing was art suddenly admitting he loved beth (and presumably sarah), but i guess they need some rationale for him continuing to appear

He's the only cop who knows all about the clones, there are countless potential valid plot reasons for his continued involvement.

loved that we got a helena-heavy ep

The whole time she was shimmying through that opening in the door I was wincing and hoping she didn't have to dislocate any bones. Ick eew. I hate that. Was relieved when she made it.

Simone = Delphine, Old Lunch?

Was enjoying that it took Gracie about 3 hours to decide not living in a religious cult anymore was cool and was ready to PAR-TAY!

did not miss Alison at all

that was the first ep of the season I found at all exciting

gracie's "going out" outfit was 100% lol

Mrs S not worried about calling 911 after getting a minor shitfaced...

maybe in this obscure anywhere, north america city (it's canada? but this dude has a confederate flag in his barn??) 18 is the legal age

xxxsxpost Where the eff did I get Simone? Yes, Delphine is what I meant.

(it's canada? but this dude has a confederate flag in his barn??)

They like to pretend it's a nameless city, but it's clearly Toronto. And, from what I've learned on the internets, the US confederate flag has been adopted as a symbol all over the world as either a symbol of generic rebellion or as a non-contextual American trinket.

growing up i always thought it was a dukes of hazzard/cool thing :/

The Dukes of Hazzard movie wasn't particularly good (it was, in fact, specifically bad!), but I did like the joke addressing the stars 'n bars on top of the car.

has anyone ever made a Che Guevera t-shirt where his beret is a confederate flag pattern?

GIS didn't turn one up, but I'd imagine it could be made in no time by someone who wants to do it (I don't).

I take back all my complaints from the beginning of S3. This is developing so well.

yeah that was a great ep

I sort of feel like they're treating Alison and Donnie like total goofballs now, though the episode next week looks like it focuses on them a little more and it's dark.

Figuring the Allison/Donnie thing will tie back in to the main storyline at some point. For now it's good comic relief. I agree this was a great episode. Brought a lot of things into more focus. And the final scene where Helena shows up to rescue Sarah was a total fist-pump moment.

Also -- the scene with Beth was great.

this was OK - mostly I'm super glad Paul is finally dead. the Alison/Donnie dance-off was such a transparent play for gifs.

i will miss handsome paul. it is sad he was handsome

It's too bad he only blew up the research data. I am hopeful he got Mom and the craziest Castor too, but that's unlikely.

ugh if only

if they dont die on screen they're not dead imo

not that sad about paul, he was hot but his character was probably the least coherent throughout and bless him but dylan bruce didn't have the acting chops to sell it beyond that. good way to go out, too.

great episode, dream sequences aside. felix/rachel scene was v powerful, the way it spun from glee at felix giving rachel much-deserved shit into real sympathy for the broken shell she'd become. and of course helena would eat her own psyche, of course.

as the new rachel, delphine is getting very rachel-like, huh? that scene of her cyberstalking cosima with pursed lips and a glass of wine...

what was delphine's rationale for breaking up with cosima anyway? 'too busy'? quel whatevs

it is lol how excited the theme music makes me

but also otm

Paul dying and the boring Castor base being destroyed forever would be such a result for one episode.

Hoping the drug dealer plotline will mean that Vic the Dick comes back sometime soon.

god what an anxiety inducing episode

The revolving-door Cosima/Alison stuff at the school had excellent screwball timing. This show is so much fun to watch. Also: preview suggests another clone next week?

And Alison's mom was perfect. "But that girl is a mulatto!"

omg i died

imaslany was so convincing as cosima pretending to be alison. body movements, gestures, it's crazy. like you forget it's the same actress

Even when I force myself to think about it, it doesn't change anything. The characters are all so different, they're who I see, not her.

totally!

Oh god, that was so stressful!!! Also, this show doesn't shy away from much, does it? see: the bathtub scene

great fun, tying alison's story to the others' thematically via that speech was corny but effective

poor cosima on so many levels ;_;

also i like the ambiguity about how delphine is becoming creepy and bad w/r/t turning up at shay's, but is also doing it out of genuine concern for cosima

Loved the reveal of Donnie's original last name.

Yeah, that was great.

what does "TWAIN" mean in the title of this thread? It's been bothering me for a few years.

also someone please explain "twain acquire"?

― festival culture (Jordan), Tuesday, April 22, 2014 1:29 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jordan, back in the day scanners and the like were known as TWAIN devices. A bunch of applications had the terminology "TWAIN Acquire" as shorthand for "get an image from a scanning device"

clones are like photocopies amirite

― a strange man (mh), Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:30 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes, and in addition twain = twin = two etc

back on board with this after e04 and e05 was as full on as anything they've ever done

basically any episode with lots of felix and helena and i'm in

otm

So glad they didn't actually kill Helena when they originally killed Helena. She's vital.

i've got from not giving a shit about this show to being totally unable to wait for the next episode, i keep checking my computer to see if somehow i've overlooked the most recent one

That was such a fantastic episode, it's so much better when it moves away from hyperactive sci-fi conspiracy stuff and focuses on the interplay between the characters.

also hijinks, uncanny hijinks

are u&k

"can you go any faster?"

"this is top. speed."

preview for next week looks insane

helena and donnie 4evr

do we know how castor knew about the book? i figure there could be a few dozen crucial plot points i've forgotten along the way

There's a Castor mole in the group somewhere, it was fairly heavily implied that it's Cosima's new girlfriend.

Been waiting for a new clone for ages and this episode didn't disappoint.

I feel like one new clone per season is a good rate to grow at.

Looking forward to seeing how they manage to find one Castor dude in a city of 8 million people btw. And idly wondering if the Mark dude will be able to do a better cockney accent than Tatiana Maslany.

I justify any accent weirdness in Felix and Sarah's accents by the fact they moved from UK to Canada as kids. Does Rachel's accent sound convincingly English?

too many accents in that first sentence, you all know what I mean

preview for next week looks insane

Was that Alison or Helena with the bloody hand walking towards Donnie? I'm gonna be haunted by that image all week. Well, not haunted, but trying to predict it.

Felix's impersonation of a successful, straight north american man was pretty fun

I hope Shay is not the mole -- not because I like her character (she's a blank so far) but because I don't want Cosima to keep getting sold out by her girlfriends.

Who else could it be, though? They flashed a photo of her military file and she's the only one who isn't in the know who's even caught wind that there's something up with the Moreau book.

Felix's impersonation of a successful, straight north american man was pretty fun

You've heard him out of character before, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1bLQIv79QA

The whole Q&A whence that clip comes is worth watching: https://youtu.be/QxqePPaSO_I

Who else could it be, though? They flashed a photo of her military file and she's the only one who isn't in the know who's even caught wind that there's something up with the Moreau book.

I know. I just feel bad for Cosima. (And otoh, everybody's allegiances in this show keep shifting and are hard to predict, who knows where Shay will end up ultimately.)

imo the accent was only one piece of it and the bluetooth clip, gestures, and creepy wink were pretty excellent

one of my favorite moments of the whole series was felix getting back in the car after that and reapplying his lipstick in the sun visor like a total boss

yes!

krystal is like atonement for tony

the way they fleshed her out from archetype to something deeper to someone we felt for, in so little time, was v well done. people talk about tatiana maslany for obvious reasons but the way jordan gavaris nails a totally different sort of chemistry with each clone is just as brilliant imo. did anyone think she looked a bit mariahesque?

their plan isn't to take out her eye is it? just keep her in a medically induced coma indefinitely? bet there'll be a scene where someone removes her eyepatch and OMG SHE HAS TWO EYES.

if it wasn't for reading a few recaps i would definitely not have been able to make sense of everyone double-crossing everyone by the end; what doesn't help is that a lot of the senior figures in these shadowy organisations appear so little that when, say, dr nealon plays a pivotal role in a plot, you're a bit like "huh who is that?"

"like baby ox" HELENA <333333 those small-town drug dealers have no idea what's in store for them

delphine had a file on shay...dunno whether that's proof of anything? the cosima/delphine emotional drama is infuriating (and in that sense, very plausible)

"what kind of monster threatens a man's cat?"

I justify any accent weirdness in Felix and Sarah's accents by the fact they moved from UK to Canada as kids. Does Rachel's accent sound convincingly English?

― salsa shark, Sunday, June 7, 2015 8:43 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

rachel does, felix does, sarah sounds plausibly cockney-gone-transatlantic

the way jordan gavaris nails a totally different sort of chemistry with each clone is just as brilliant imo

They talk about this a little in the Q&A I linked above. Felix's (and everyone else's) reactions to each of the different clones is as key to them being believably different as Tatayana Maslany's portrayals are.

Agree that they did a wonderful job with Krystal in a very short amount of time. I think they mentioned that Rachel was getting a prosthetic eye, so Krystal will likely keep both of hers. I do hope she's eventually integrated into clone club, because it's too late now for her to keep living with unanswered questions.

Nagging question: If they were going to kidnap Rachel anyway, why have Sarah and Felix go to all the trouble of sneaking in and stealing her ID? Creates extra layer of risk and complication for no obvious gain.

Oh, huh...you're right. Plot integrity isn't this show's strong suit, though.

Delphine isn't in concert with that guy in the cabbie hat, though. Rachel is.

lol I got that wrong. It actually was Rachel who sent them to get Krystal's ID tho. So you're right...it's really dumb.

Right sorry, I meant why steal Krystal's ID. But, yeah. Made for a good scene with Felix, but doesn't make sense unless I'm missing something.

Rachel is legally dead

Yeah, I get why Rachel needs that id. Just that her friend in the cabbie hat could've gotten when he went there to kidnap her without having to send Felix and Sarah to do it a couple hours earlier.

the answer is obv that the conspirators are not perfectly efficient master planners

Well, there is a degree of institutional incompetence running through pretty much every organization on the show. Except possibly the drug kingpin, he seems to run a tight ship.

Haha, true.

That tight ship bout to get helenaed

i'm also confused by rachel's machinations--did they get sarah/felix involved because they knew they could nab the second copy of the book?

Well, there is a degree of institutional incompetence running through pretty much every organization on the show.

this is like last season when michelle forbes showed up to easily rescue sarah and kira from dyad, right after everyone went to insane lengths to murder rachel with a pencil gun.

unrelated sidebar

i ordered a used office chair from an amazon seller, but it was taking ages to ship. seller contacted me to say she was on vacation & she would have her husband ship it out.
next day I get an apologetic email saying that she would have to refund the order bc her husband broke the chair when he was getting ready to ship it.

i told mr veg & he said "Uuugh. Way to go, DONNIE."

long story for the punchline but i lol'ed

Donnie Chubbs strikes again!

that is so Donnie

lol VG

i'm also confused by rachel's machinations--did they get sarah/felix involved because they knew they could nab the second copy of the book?

yeah i think so - rachel banked on both cosima having made a copy and lying about it to delphine, and worked with delphine to "get the photocopy" (while working with nealon to escape) (and this points to rachel not being the castor mole, as if she'd been working with them she'd have got the original copy anyway)

Have fallen down a youtube rabbit hole with cast interviews and Maslany has done a lot of promo for S3. Her profile is definitely the highest its been since the show started, so surely she'd have to at least get an Emmy nomination this year.

Also, I gleaned that Evelyne Brochu (Delphine) is the lead in another Canadian series called X Company set in WWII. Anyone watched that? All the episodes are on cbc.ca with region restrictions, but I think I can get around that.

I interrogated some friends who are from her hometown but none of them know her. Since it's relatively small it's one of those "oh yeah, I have a friend who knows her" things though :)

<3<3 HELENA <3<3

Who else could it be, though? They flashed a photo of her military file and she's the only one who isn't in the know who's even caught wind that there's something up with the Moreau book.

Welp, who has two thumbs and was totally wrong? THIS GUY.

I totally thought Delphine was gonna kill Shay regardless of what Cosima told her but that would be a level of dark that this show has never even tried to pull off.

i was thinking that too, strengthened by the fact i don't remember the show ever going quite as dark as it did a few times in this episode. bludgeoned to death with an electrical plug D:

i have spent an inordinate amount of time down wikipedia rabbit holes reading about chimerism so i am VERY INTO this latest reveal

also, helena remains the greatest character on tv

"it's one of those really bad colds that messes with your...syntax."

as soon as Helena said something about behbehs I knew everyone in the room was going to die

"i uh, i was at work and ran into, uh, a post"

"a post made of fists, maybe"

lol i loved that

15 yo me was hoping that S might give us a little Commitments flava after her punked-up number <3 Was pretty rad seeing her sing again, I must say

https://38.media.tumblr.com/6b32e26d202dc0c1dde0fe9f87ed79d0/tumblr_mx34astuCM1sy17tpo5_250.gif

love love love

The elder Mrs S was very poorly cast, especially given that the Castor guy is extremely distinctive looking and, even allowing for 40+ years of ageing, she looked nothing like him (or Sarah for that matter).

Incredible Helena episode by the way.

how did I not notice Helena's tow truck-driving "boyfriend" is the guy from the tv show Suits?

lol

I had been wondering why the Neolution plot just kind of died out. Looking forward to some batshit insanity next season.

It was amazing how all they had to do was flip a switch on Ferdinand to make him awesome. R.I.P. Delphine, though. ;_;

Helena 4EVA <3<3<3

Also, Allison saying "seestrahs" was awesome!!

worms

WORMS U GUYS

what the eff

Seriously! Not that the show really needed to up the weird factor, but now that it needs something to replace the Castor plot I fully endorse this development.

totally

also possible Ferdy alliance is gonna be interesting

By the time Helena has her baby, Kira's going to be in college.

wow ferdinand went from awful & slimy to awesome just like that huh!

helena/rudy scene was so good, and kendall is a terrific character overall

new direction feels like the show getting back to its weird body modification/evolution/crazy science roots, which is a good thing

WHO SHOT DELPHINE??? it looked like she knew them, was expecting that person, but if it was anyone in cosima's inner circle (shay? scott?) she would surely have tried to warn her

knew all along that there'd a be a krystal-still-has-her-eye-it's-not-rachel-omg scene but i did not see that it'd be the manicure that tipped delphine off...of course it would, of course they'd overlook that.

L.A. Times has a good interview with one of the co-creators, including some talk of where Season 4 will go.

Kendall is just a stock fecking eejit Irish mother cliche with a bit of chimeric nonsense thrown in to make her interesting. Felt like a real wasted opportunity.

The rest of this episode was great. I get the sense that Ferdinand is going to be a lot of fun next season.

If Delphine is dead - does anyone other than Rachel actually know about Krystal?

Also Helena facing off with the Castor clone was awesome. S3 in general a big step up on S2, good to see them all in the same room again as well.

If Delphine is dead - does anyone other than Rachel actually know about Krystal?

Was wondering this too. Obviously she'll have to reconnect with the sestras somehow.

The interview linked a couple posts above indicates that Delphine is assumed to be dead unless they think of a really good reason to bring her back.

I want more Krystal, so I hope she told someone.

might've just let her run off, since that one doctor dude seemed to the be only person clearly on the inside.

i had just been thinking that i missed the weird body modification stuff so i'm v pleased it's back and seemingly weirder than ever.

No way Krystal would be running off after that. She had her own suspicions that something about her/her life was weird to begin with, so now that her fears have been confirmed she'll be sticking around.

yeah, i just mean run off out of the lab, hopefully to somehow find her сёстры

They're moving the night, and it starts in just over three weeks. ^_^

http://i.imgur.com/QZFnbm3.jpg

omg

hope they get it together a little more - last season there were approx 2 really outstanding episodes (prison break!) but the rest was sort of regrettable

guess i should finally watch the second half of last year's now

Actually I can't count. TWO weeks!

:D

last season there were approx 2 really outstanding episodes (prison break!) but the rest was sort of regrettable

There was a lot of stuff that was coming from all directions really quickly that I was lost during the first 2 or 3 episodes of last season, but once it settled into itself a little more it seemed really, really great imo. ymmv I suppose.

no you're right i'm being unkind to the back half of the season

back tonight!!

gah I still have to watch like the entirety of last season

same

There is some real good shit from last season, worth getting through the uneven first episodes

Ok good I bailed after the first ep of Season 3

http://christiantimes.com/article/orphan-black-season-4-news-spoilers-show-to-introduce-new-clones-relationship-of-main-characters-on-the-rocks/54331.htm

Actor Jordan Gavaris, who plays the role of Felix in the popular drama series, had an interview with Variety and gave some insights on how his character will build or destroy the connections with other people . Felix's known love interest in "Orphan Black" is Sarah, played by Tatiana Maslany.

I don't get the return of Beth. Am I missing something from the last season or something?
I was wondering if the series had gone back and done a prequel but everybody else seems to be at the point they were at later don't they? Can't quite think exactly what everybody was up to at the end of the last season, but I thought they weren't aware of each other before the first one. Is that right or do I need to go back and rewatch the first season.
Anyway the protagonist of the first episode of season 4 seems to be the same person who died in episode 1 of season 1 and I don't see how. The one person who I thought might be taking her place appears to be elsewhere anyway, certainly after the end of the last season.
Somewhat confusing, but maybe it will be explained later. It isn't in the beginning recap cos I had the vide3ofile restart and saw that bit.
Had me wondering if there was timetravel involved but I don't remember them using a trope like tat.

Felix's known love interest in "Orphan Black" is Sarah, played by Tatiana Maslany.

erm?

Also noticing a scene where 2x Tatiana are in the same small space playing against each other and thinking that technology has moved on a great way since the days of Star trek. I'm assuming that this kind of thing must have happened in earlier scenes in earlier series but not really thought about it in the same way. Does seem absolutely seamless now, no noticeable difference in image across the screen in terms of showing bluescreen or anything. Not that I'm that up on the technology involved but i did think it was impressive.
Did wonder how it was filmed, does each Tatiana have a stand in actress they're playing off or some other kind of placeholder?

Yeah, there's a dedicated stand-in on Orphan Black (who has also made it on camera as well).

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwieselman/meet-the-woman-beisdes-tatiana-maslany-who-plays-every-singl#.kgbw6GVmZ

Oh, I didn't realize they'd made an Orphan Black line of Pops...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/67/c3/06/67c306b395481830617a315b7b75617e.jpg

omg that second Rachel

lol at that quote from the article Matt DC linked

and DJP otm, those Pop figures are good

Just watched.

Stevolende, everything about the episode was a flashback up to the point where Art called Sarah in the cabin. Beth is really dead. Paul is really dead. They were just filling in some mysterious backstory. MK is clearly still alive in the present day, which is cool because I like her.

Also, there's apparently an "after show" show for Orphan Black now. The irony of it being hosted by a bad Chris Hardwick clone is not lost on me.

I'm into mk, liking the flashbacks, so far yay to all of this

Yeah I thought opening with an entire ep devoted to a flashback was pretty bold but good bc it also brings back a few details the viewer might have forgotten, aswell as clueing us in on some unanswered questions from that first season.

Right, maybe I just wasn't aware that the clones inter-related and it was just the cockney one that was meeting everybody for the first time. Maybe I do need to rewatch first season.

& am making more sense of this after having watched the debut episode. But may need to look at more of that series, seeing people popping up in this significantly that i'm n ot really remembering.
The creepy bearded detective from upstairs, the lady detective from the same branch as Beth and the oriental assistant to the guru/scientist guy. Am assuming if they appear significant in the current episode they must loom large in earlier series.

'oriental'?

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand)
Posted: 21 April 2014 at 11:55:03
lol sorry, maggie CHEN

here is a wiki thing about her:
http://orphanblack.wikia.com/wiki/Maggie_Chen

so.. basically.. maggie USED to be a scientist in Dyad(/Neolution), but then got caught up in this Prolethean cult that sees the clones as an abomination that must be kilt? and Beth, through circumstances not quite fleshed out, kilt her instead, to protect herself and/or the other clones?

but i still don't remember/know why Beth kit herself by stepping in front of that train.

So was the person that Beth shot, and apparently ruined her career over, who seemed to be shorter and older than the chic woman who was the personal assistant to the guru/scientist guy actually the same person. I thought she looked different and a lot more shabbily dressed.
Also looked like the black cop partner was looking at the photo of the shooting victim in a book of what I thought was criminal profiles before the shooting.

I thought the personal assistant seemed quite young and good looking. maybe I'm being thrown by the photo which I would have thought was somebody in their 40s.

dude they are 2 different people

or maybe i'm misunderstanding u

No I think you're probably right. I was just going to rewatch to make sure she hadn't cleaned up very nicely. But I thought they were different.
But presumably the PA or whatever she is isn't a totally new character. & I was thinking character rather than bit part for some reason.

Is oriental non PC these days or something? I just thought it described an asian looking person I wasn't aware of the nationality of but got an odd response earlier.
Is it archaic now? Or like calling somebody a darky. Hope not.

i'm afraid so!

descriptor for inanimate objects (art/rugs) - definitely, definitely not people

a quick google will answer your questions.

The person Beth shot this week was Maggie Chen, but I guess they had to recast the actor.

2 pretty obviously different people as I had initially thought. Just looked back at the sections and they look nothing alike.
Is the person I'm thinking of as a PA called Amy Cho or something? I couldn't quite make that out.
Is that somebody who features elsewhere?

Character i was asking about appears to be called Evie Cho ad is played by Jessalyn Wamlin. IMDB has her appearing in 7 episodes in this series which is odd if the series returns to the present day or whenever the the last series was set if she is somebody who is introduced as being around before the story starts for the audience as this week's flashback does, or at least if she is somebody who is supposed to have been around but somehow not around for the story. Unless the story keeps flashing back to then, or of course has another explanation we've yet to hear.

THis is her IMDB entry
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1801838/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t16

Evie Cho very likely will be around in the present as they've moved to the story back towards Neolutionists.

(And most of the Neolutionists we already knew are dead now.)

love these biopunk neolutionist followers, the worm in the cheek reminded me of Upstream Color

Right, maybe I just wasn't aware that the clones inter-related and it was just the cockney one that was meeting everybody for the first time. Maybe I do need to rewatch first season.

i was initially a bit confused by this as well but iirc (and maybe i don't) sarah came into contact with the other clones because she had started living beth's life.

i thought this episode was great and has me really anticipating what's to come and it also reminded me of how little i understand anything that happens in this show

otm lol

When sarah takes over Beth's life, she discovers Beth has two phones - the black one for work etc and the pink one (Alison's choice obviously), which is the one only the clones use to communicate with each other. And that's how she meets the others.

alison's flower delivery scene was great

This was fucking excellent.

Yeah really enjoyed this. I can't remember most of the plot from last season but that's okay as it's all basically bollocks anyway. Crazy caravan clone has potential.

I was thinking on first watch that MK was Russian blonde cos of accent. Thought bleach might be later. But more clearly not 2nd time around. Seems to be more ordered.
Have they gone through a finite limit to how many female clones there are? Or are there still an unknown amount of others potentially to come?
Looking back at debut there was a comment about a German one's treatment being postponed in current episode she dies in debut shortly after first appearance. I didn't get or possibly hear what was said in the reference in the 'lesbian with a U-haul' scene til I rewatched both.

There are a few clones who died of genetic defects or were killed by Helena before the start of the season (plus the one we see her shoot). This appears to be one that no one other than Beth knew about until now.

When I say seems to be more ordered in comment above, it looks like MK is more of a person following a set of rules and pre-planned structure whereas Helena seems to be heavily disturbed most of the time. MK just seems to be a bit paranoid which looks like it might just be a good idea really.
I really need to learn the individual clones names again.

Keep forgetting Cosima for one

great opening episode! brave and safe at the same time - on the one hand an entire episode of prequel stuff like that is unexpected, on the other it's a bit of a hard reset, getting back to the show's roots, especially when it seems some people (not me) found the S3 stuff less compelling. helps that we were plunged into the middle of the mystery and action in S1 and learned about it as sarah did, so there's a whole lot of stuff to potentially cover. and beth has cast such a long shadow over the show that to actually let us see her (dream sequence didn't count) felt necessary on some level. i thought it was going to take us right up to beth's suicide but that's some weeks after maggie chen's shooting iirc?

loved all the little gratuitous fan-pleasing things like felix so nearly coming into contact with beth so early. seeing so many long-dead characters felt like a bit of a greatest hits medley, too.

of course alison wanted an expense report from cosima!!!

i don't know the lesbians/u-haul joke?

what do lesbians bring to a second date? a u-haul.

i.e. the 'joke' is that the stereotype of lesbians is that they move straight into intensely committed relationships on the second date.

ohhhh. i didn't even know that was a stereotype, lol

i didn't know about it either till i watched the L-word.

Also a pretty good way of teasing 'Is Delphine dead?' out for another week.

i watched all of season 3 yesterday (sick day) and spent half of it like "do i even like this show anymore?" thankfully the second half really brought it home and i now have a more glowing impression of it than season 2

mika has a lot of potential, might be high on my list of favorite clones after a few more appearances

obviously cosima and helena are my clone posse

I haven't rewatched any episodes but I'm clearly at the point where I need to. During the 'previously on Orphan Black' montage, I was all like, "What? Who's that? Oh, yeah, I remember that, I think. Wait, that happened?". Rewatch or pay more attention on my first watch, one of the two.

it took me a few seconds to recognise / remember paul but i think that is because they got him from the dull tv hunk cloning programme

i like that they played to his strengths (few lines, few clothes)

lol

and as we were discussing today lex i loved how the emotional wasteland of their relationship threw sarah's sexual ploy in S1 into such sharp relief - like whoa

agreed, I kind of want to rewatch it to see if there's a greater context in how her boyfriend/handler was reacting, but I wonder if they even had that plot beat sketched out at that point

Sarah's druggy ex in the 1st series appears to be the young Latino gangster in Better Call Saul.

Wonder what's happened to MK in interim time. Have the clones just been totally unaware of her while she's kept doing the same thing and also kept tabs on them.
That was Sarah's phone she rang on, not one of Beth's? Though why Beth's would still be running I don't know.
But she has a direct mobile number for somebody she's apparently never met.

Art called Sarah. MK was at Art's apartment.

still enjoying that the progenitor of the clone lines is an old woman who's obnoxious and cranky

"That's different. Helena's a trained killer. We're manslaughterers!"

OK Jesus Christ that is nightmare material

This show once again feels completely assured

Oh boy that scene towards the end with Beth and Mika

yeah. Also I love how Felix is sick of being a sidekick. "Hey, Fee, can you do (x) for me?" "Actually you know what? I have my own life"

NOt even responding to her phone calls or was taht text messages since she got back, is he.

Last ep was great. So many characters tho!

And can somebody remind me what the deal is with the nitrogen tank? Henrik extracted Helena's eggs, did IVF and injected them back into Helena, back on the Prolethean farm, right? So what's in the tank? Other eggs? Leftovers?

I think so? There's so much I don't remember about this show. And I don't know if revisiting past episodes would really elucidate much.

I wouldn't usually advocate such a thing, but y'all should really watch the goofy post-show chat garbage thing after this past week's episode because the actor who plays Dizzy looks like he thoroughly despises having to indulge promo crap like that and it's really fun to watch. They eventually stop asking him questions altogether.

IRL lol at Alison and Donnie's phone sex.

Also at Donnie and Felix checking in at the fertility clinic. He's quickly and surprisingly becoming one of my favorite characters.

Can anyone refresh my memory as to what happened with Krystal? I remember Delphine taking a look at her nails and realising it wasn't Rachel in the coma, but I can't remember who's got her? And with Delphine maybe dead we won't find out for a while.

Which is the best non-coupled couple: Donnie and Felix, or Donnie and Helena?

Really hard to beat any couple involving Helena, though

I have secretly wanted Donnie and Helena to pair up but have also secretly cheered Donnie's unwavering fidelity to his family.

he'd be a good dad for her behbehs

no way!! gross. first of all they're totally not each other's types, second of all donnie is way in love with alison, but third of all no way helena betrays the sestrahood. that's one of the bedrock principles of the show! it would be interesting to see what happens when that principle is threatened but not that way for the love of god.

lol no way do I mean they'd be a good romantic match

the last two episodes have been great, lots of fun with a smattering of horrifying

gonna need one of those nice flow charts the sestras have been looking at lately to figure out how topside - neolution - the proletheans - etc all relate tho

I've gotten a little confused but I think it's due to the fact they spent so much time on the proletheans, who were really just a spinoff cult founded by the one guy who left neolution

It basically doesn't matter, they're just interchangeable threats to push the characters we actually care about into perilous/fun situations.

This last episode was outrageously fun. Donnie was KILLING me.

But like, Crystal is undercover too?? By coincidence? Because she's read some conspiracy theory tabloid shit (that accidentally happens to connect with a true conspiracy?) Do I have that right?

ha yeah i think krystal has managed to discern some of the facts but not been quite as sober and careful an investigator as beth and sarah and so on

I loved Donnie's trepidation at his improvised massage plan... OK here is a naked, blow-dried babe who happens to look exactly like my wife...

Donnie is hilarious when he's given enough slack to make really bad decisions

KRYSTAL <3333

krystal/helena has rocketed to the top of clone pairings i need to see this season

such a great choice to have cosima be the one to come face to face with her creator, really added to the emotional impact of their meeting, though imagining how that episode nearly happening with alison is fun

the birth scene was pretty horrific

could see adele's dna panning out from a mile off. i wonder if they're gonna bring her in? obv doesn't mean she's legit. sarah and felix have both been pretty dislikeable this season, which is a brave choice (and it's been understandable on both their parts too)

So we don't really know what happened to Krystal between the end of S3 and now, but I'm guessing it means Delphine is still alive. I kept expecting her to walk into the delivery room at the end.

Krystal/Alison would be such a great pairing.

Also oh my god that baby scene.

good ol' body horror

aural horror even more than visual, those gasping attempts to breathe...

There have been a few non-stop edge-of-your-seat episodes throughout this show's run, but THAT was among the best of them if not the best one.

It's gotten really good. It was edge-of-your-seat but also super high stakes, as we went from the heights of thinking that there may soon be a viable cure for Cosima's sickness to having basically every possible route to that cure destroyed in one fell swoop. Evie Cho is probably the best villain the show's had yet.

Side note: Not sure how they found and cast the actor who plays beard & glasses cop, but he is SUPREMELY hateable.

mr veg didn't even wait a beat for the massage before he was like "donnie is gonna get the shit kicked out of him"

the baby aaaaauuuggrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh

omg this show & body horror deformity so on point

Didn't really appreciate revisiting the baby during the "Previously on Orphan Black..." part, but I guess they spent a lot of money on that prop.

the baby should be a regular character

Next season's opening titles will just be a static close-up of the baby wheezing the theme song.

D:

these last few episodes have been a helluva run, maybe the best in the whole series

I don't know if the plan had always been to revisit Beth's story, but it's one of the best decisions the show's ever made.

Kinda seems like it must've been the plan, however broadly-sketched. We never found out why she killed herself but it was presumably something fairly devastating. It's certain been more impactful actually seeing that sequence of events play out as the characters are uncovering them in the present day.

that was a fuckin quadruple body-slam of an episode

maybe the most emotionally affecting orphan black episode to date. it felt more like a finale than most actual finales i've seen! sad that we didn't get more scenes between kendall and susan.

the tension around cosima's fate made me realise that if they're ever going to be awful and kill one of the sestras then they had better give me a few weeks warning so i can steel myself

Is this show the bleakest it's ever been right now? Jeezus, someone get me a drink.

(Trying to avoid spoilers for those who are a bit behind) I got a sense that we were seeing the clones' oft-hinted psychic rapport at play in this ep. I don't know whether it was specifically because of the trauma Cosima suffered in bearing witness to XXXXXX's death or because they all actually felt XXXXXX's death but I assume that played at least some part.

I genuinely thought that was the end for Cosima, but then I've been predicting her death for like three seasons now. But it really did feel like it then.

Glad they're finally moving her into a more central role rather than keeping her stuck in the lab half the time.

"No offense, Scotty."
"Some taken, actually."

omg this show just keeps levelling up, i love it

Yeah just unbelievable.. best episode yet???

Just sitting there thinking... Wait, is that Peaches?!?

YES!!!!

When the Hendrix house was getting raided and Donnie arrested, I thought "um, they typically wouldn't execute a drug arrest warrant this way..." but then you know who showed up. I can't wait for his death, and I hope Siobhan gets to do it.

sidebar: mr veg gis'd 'peaches' without qualifying it as "singer" or whatever -we were loling over the pages & pages of actual peaches interspersed with an occasional pic of semi naked singer peaches

after last week's ep it felt a bit like a finale, like they were resetting the story but they've left so many interesting tendrils, i am excited to see where the story goes

reached a point now where tatiana maslany is SO good that it hurts my brane to think of all the sistras as one actress, for the sake of sanity its easier pretending they are all diff ppl. i mean just the physical contrast between sarah/alison/cosima/crystal jfc

let alone the emotional characteristics & mannerisms etc

Right? I know everyone who likes the show always says "I forget they're all the same person!" but in this most recent episode that was particularly true.

All very true, but leave us not forget the chops of other cast members. We started watching this week's post show garbagefest which featured Jordan Gavarais, and the gf reacted to him being himself like it was Invasion of the Body Snatchers. "I know Felix and that's not Felix!"

(The post-show was a little bit worth watching this week if only to see Gavarais do a fantastic impression of Crystal.)

I was wondering how widespread this post show discussion thing is on watching the show yesterday since it was highlighted that that was following in a blurb at the bottom of the screen.
Getting to be that that's the way you start expecting to experience things, some distracting thing looming across the bottom of the screen. Or some advert for something completely irrelevant that happens to be on the same channel. Is the only way to watch these shows these days without that to buy the dvd or something?

it's on netflix uk

still haven't seen this week's yet but... dawg..

https://hrecht.github.io/orphanblack-update/

My brains just melted.

It's astounding how, even when seeing the still images of all of her characters side-by-side, the clones look like similar (perhaps related) but distinctly different people. I've only just recently started to notice some of the decisions she makes with her facial expressions and body language to differentiate between them.

the hair and makeup people deserve a shitload of credit too imo

Not really aware of what else I've seen her in.
Hope she can retain and maintain this versatility.
Would be sadly ironic if the market in 10 years time forced her into a role she got typecast in. So do hope she has a long career with great options.