Girls without makeup vs girls with makeup

Its all part of the "game" though, man searches for woman. Men don't have to bother, they just have to talk the talk.

but, you know, sometime she's put some on for effect! -r-ROWR.

I went out Latin dancing with someone a few weeks back and she commented that it was kind of fun to smell the various perfumes that many people there were wearing. I have to admit, I kind of enjoy coming home from dancing, taking off my shirt, and noticing that it smells of perfume. Perhaps in the context of night club sensory overload it works. But as a general rule, none--or be very subtle. Also, since I have very sensitive sinuses, sometimes perfume actually irritates me. And some of the cheap stuff has some very unsavory ingredients, from what I've heard.

I used to think I was much more anti-makeup than pro-. These days I would say that it depends, but overall I think I still prefer either no makeup or minimal makeup. I have to admit that a touch of it can improve the appearance of some faces, but I really enjoy seeing a "naked" female face, generally speaking.

Perfume -- depends very very much on the perfume, particularly since I dislike floral scents which haven't been blended enough, patchouli, and ylang-ylang, which pretty much strikes most of women's fragrances right there. Not enough women seem to have any sense of what perfume works for them, as opposed to what was well-marketed, but they're still worlds better at it than men.

Because that was the 1980s, and now is now.

Still, the dumbfounding part of some people's feelings on this topic is the way it's always just assumed that putting it on is a chore and that there's no possible way a person might be doing it because they enjoy it. That's ridiculous. Might as well tell people that there's no possible way they could be enjoying choosing the clothes they wear or the way a good shower makes them feel.

anyway this thread reminds me of that particular strip -- this issue really ain't as black and white as the 'dud dud dud'ders might make out.

and also before you all call me on my feminist claims in other threads -- good lord, wearing makeup is FUN, especially if it's the glitter eye-stick that urban decay just put out or lip glass by MAC, which tastes like honey and is just as lip-sticky.

I used to be a makeup addict--one summer I spent around $2,000 at the Stila counter.

I mainly wear make-up for the same reason as Kim - without it people often think I'm unwell.

I've been theorising on the chastity-belt properties of lipstick lately though as I've never been tempted to kiss a girl with lipstick on. Eeuck - sticky and yuck.

it's a very strong urge but so far I have fought it.

i fukking hate the "natural" look. the "natural" look of makeup probbly involves more makeup than the "too much" makeup look. i wear no make-up, except for rare ocassions when i'm on stage and want to look ridiculous, so i slap on some blue lipstick and a wig. perfume smells gross, whether on men or women.

Di makes good points about class, but I don't think this version on its own allows for the insecurity end of the continuum.

Make-up as a part of dressing up = classic, then, but the idea of make-up as a basic part of hygene leans in the direction of dud.

Oh sweet jesus, shut the fuck up. you don't need to turn everything into how the man is oppressing you. i was merely wondering whether people prefered females when they wear makeup as opposed to when they do.
whether i like a girl or not has nothing to do with makeup, i don't know where you got that from. i just said i generally find people without makeup more attractive. sorta like saying i find girls with short hair more attractive than girls with long hair. HOLY SHIT BREAK OUT THE FEMINIST BRIGADE I'M TRYING TO OPPRESS ALL WOMYN INTO CUTTING THEIR HAIR. http://lollers.netfirms.com/rolleyes.jpg
it's just stating a preference, jackass.

the amount of people saying they need to wear makeup is kinda disturbing, but i guess that's just coming from an anti-makeup type of person. i enjoy eminem, so i'm not one to judge.

(& re : the O.M.C. - "We Are The O.M.C." was on the Mai FM 10th anniversary comp ("Rappers Delight", mixed by DJ Sir-Vere) & "How Bizarre" was voted something like 35th best NX song evah & is on the Nature's Best 2 comp. No idea what Pauly & co are doing these days - I imagine they're living in LA & feeling resentment for everyone viewing them as one-hit wonders.)

If it was someone who always wore make-up then I wouldn't say anything.

I'd be more likely to tell someone their breath stank or their body odour was offensive (two things I'm *very* unlikely to tell someone) than to criticise their make-up.

Part of the fun of going out is getting dressed up and putting on loads of make-up and producting the hair.

Lipstick is annoying. Lipliner is minging, although can be used to make satanic eyes on halloween

I knew that was going to be about Nick R. before I even saw the link.

I have said before that if I didn't live in a generally warm climate and have skin that would get even more oily and potentially acne-ridden with lotsa makeup that it already has done on its own over the years, my regular daily appearance would be full-on Daniel Ash circa 1982 or something. That would be more than fine by me.

As it stands, more than once make-up has been wielded in my direction by significant others for their own fancies. And who am I to deny them that? :-)

I think going so far as to claim it's oppressive to have preferences is out of order but is anyone on this thread really doing that?

Mine wouldn't. I'd either think - 'yeah they're right I really must get some contacts and stop looking like a dork' or else I'd be secure enough about my looks to just think 'ah well - horses for courses'. I mean there's a thread called 'Guys with glasses vs Guys without glasses' and it's clearly a place for knockabout discussion of personal preferences - why would I think 'fuck you'?

(And of course there's often a big 'HEY YOU'RE BEING MARKETED TO' undertone in a lot of people's anti-make-up comments (not on this thread particularly) which I'm sure is just as annoying applied to liking mascara as it is to liking Destiny's Child.)

Nick - 'like I give a fuck what you think' is a more aggressive version of 'horses for courses'.

Yeah, well I don't like it. The former seems to be implying that you shouldn't have expressed your opinion in the first place.

B-but when I wear it it looks so clumpy and *unnatural*. Is it just my imagination?

"the world would be a better place if more bys wore makeup"

B-but it is a bit disoncerting to wake up in the morning and see your "partner"'s mascara smudged all over his face...

... I'd have exactly enough nickels to give one apiece to each woman who bitched that men shouldn't assume women change a single bit of their appearance for them.

I see your point Tep. I can't speak with authority for any other woman but myself.

As I understand it, discourse on ile is definitionally a mixed bag - so that something as ostensibly trivial as makeup might turn out to be something worth pushing. And I don't think the notion that there are personal and wider politics bound up in the gendered presentation of self is entirely a shocking one, is it? If ppl really wanted responses like 'yay grat, a boi says make up doesn't matter' or 'ha ha makeup is funny and fun' we wouldn't bloody be here, would we? We'd be on mildlydivertingbutlimitedchat.com.

No one said anything about oppressing anyone except Webber in ?his dumb caricature of ducklingmonster's points.

To me it looks like this: boys initiate 'preferences about girls' thread, some women think there might be some interesting things to be said that aren't much directly to do with how boys feel about it, boys get disgruntled and say girls get 'defensive'.

I fogot to mention: I hate perfume. No one should wear perfume, unless they can perfectly calibrate the dose to a subtle innofensive, can only smell if your nose is pressed against their neck level.

It is so intrusive and rude that people feel carte blance to pollute the air with their putrifying scent, the ultimate in egotistical grandstanding, not *look at me* but *smell me*-- but I don't want to it is so disgusting. Dear readers: please take these comments to heart and realize that your colleagues have enough problems getting to work everday, struggling through the inane trials of office life, without smelling your Issay Miyake I think I'm hip and cool and wannabe Japanese and fashionable olfactory indiscretion....

Disclaimer: My mom is allowed to read perfume. And all the makeup she so desires. Especially lipstick.

hey graham did you consider that women sometimes wear "too much" on purpose? like, cos they want to offend yr sense of whats appropriate and ladylike for a woman to do? i have definitely played with the "toomuch" make-up look at times, and its not cos i'm "trying too hard", its cos i am obsessed with drag queens and wish i was one. and there are probably several other reasons why a woman would try to look flamboyant with their makeup. and anyway, even if said woman wasn't trying to offend yr senses, it would be downright rude to tell her she's wearing too much. it'd be like telling someone that they dress badly. and there is no subtle way to do it.

mary you are so right about perfume. it is incredibly invasive, and should be treated with the same disdain as smoking in public places.

I responded to Jess not on the grounds of his expressed preference, but to his implication that 'girls didn't believe' that men could prefer women without make-up. Just pointing out that this wasn't the point; that (individual) male preferences were emerging as not a relevant context.

to begin with i said "so many", not the "all" you imply in your misphrasing (and anyway, i said "women"; really, is this a belle and sebastian show or something?) if this is my experience (and it has been) that i have heard from quite a few women - from my mother and grandmother through ex-girlfriends - that they don't know "how a guy could like them before they put their makeup on", which is - i don't think anyone is going to dispute - a pretty fucked up notion of self-worth, then how is "not relevant"; even arguing it (or trying to explain an alternative viewpoint) lends it some creedence, doesn't it?

the rest of your reply is just a rant, which i think has been pretty well disproved by where the conversation has gone since then. if you don't feel its relevant to have men discussing this, that's fine too; but then don't turn around and hand me some high and mighty retort about differentiated discourse. (and before you start frothing again at how i'm "painting" anyone, i don't think this is how you feel.)

but at no point was i trying to lend my "approval" of women not wearing makeup: stop projecting. i merely made a comment. since i stayed around for the rest of it, your (rather empty) caricature of a the men of ile pouting and saying "screw you girls i'm going home" seems pretty far from the truth.

these all look HOTT

(I am SO kidding. Don't take me to task for this.)

so i'd say the real dud is only when women are wearing make-up because they feel that they have to, but aren't really comfortable in it. my mom is like this - she never wears much, so when she does (for dressy occasions, etc.) she looks a bit out of place.

(boys + eyeliner = classic)

I do not prefer boys with eyeliner unless they front angry digital hardcore bands from Berlin.

Geeta wishes she came of age in the swinging '80s!

that said, some days i wear makeup, some days i don't. it's not a need, but it DOES make me look a lot better. i'm pimply so if i want to look really unpimply for some reason i put on foundation and that pretty much covers everything; most days i put on pressed powder to at least make my pimples less shiny; some days i just don't care. other stuff i'm too lazy to put on frequently.

I don't bother myself, largely because I'm no good at it and I just make myself look worse. I regret this sometimes because I need all the help I can get, but mostly I'm too lazy anyway, plus I tend to think of myself as beyond help anyway. I have not dared wear any eye makeup except eyeshadow since I was 16 and was asked whether it was a hallowe'en mask or my real face. They had a point, all my attempts at mascara/eyeliner were hideous and I've never found a foundation or powder that matches my skin at all. I'm not too bothered these days but I did wish I was better at it as a teen.

If you had have stated your case in a less patronising and retarded I'M A FEMINIST AND YOU KNOW NOTHING BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST AN OPPRESSIVE MAN BLAH BLAH BLAH AREN'T I SO SMART manner, you would have come off looking much less like a moron, and I probably wouldn't have said anything.
However, if you post in my thread commenting on my post inaccurately and make yourself look like an idiot, I'm going to call you an idiot, every time.

This: "i wonder why so many women really find it hard to believe that guys really do like them sans makeup" just looked as if it came out of nowhere to me, reading the thread as it unfolded. Thank you for offering an appropriate context, which makes your concerns clear. I don't think it was projection to comment that in the thread and without this context it read like a misinterpretation of what people were actually saying. But I'll happily stand corrected if my intepretative skills turn out to be as poor as you've suggested.

The girls vs boys terminology - yeah, this came off pissy. Sorry.

I'm not going to keep insisting that I'm right, but I'm not having that I'm projecting.

But seriously, (non-animal tested) make-up is one of the things that separates us from the apes. Classic all the way, on boys, girls and children.

I just don't recognise the 'me' that looks back from the mirror with a fully made up face. I look like a complete stranger. Plus make-up is bad for your skin. I am anti-make-up.

and who sweats on their eyebrows?

Which is what happens when I wear foundation/powder anyhow, it looks great for about half an hour (nice and pale with bright red lips) and then I get hot at whatever club Im at and the nose and chin rubs clean and looks all read and I look disgusting.

So even though I like to wear it to neaten up(as my face is very ruddy) I dont wear makeup much, just when out clubbing.

Otherwise dud! I hate when my female friends make me wait for them to put on their faces. Could the fact that they have bad skin have anything to do with the globs of goo they put on EVERY DAY?

Also, girls who wear the wrong color foundation = MAJOR DUD!

but every morning i catch site of this girl who is pale and maybe has bad skin and she has smothered herself with something that makes her look like a corpse. and that is bad.

however I like to always wear liquid eyeliner, black mascara, and red lip color.

and i keep my eyebrows waxed/plucked but never use a pencil on them. (why in the hell would you thin the hair and then redraw it in? what a waste of time. . .)

Q: Why do women wear perfume and make up?
A: Because they stink and they're ugly

Don't shoot the messenger

Eventually people would never refer to me by name, they would call me 'the face'. I always hated this. The worst bit wasn't putting the stuff on every morning, but having to spend ages removing it at the end of the day. I used to spend lots of money on this make-up every month, and use quite expensive brands whenever possible. I was completely obsessed, I would never go out without my 'face' on. One day, I went out for a walk in the hot sunshine. It got so hot and sticky that my mascara and eyeliner started to melt, and I looked like a panda. Then unexpectedly, it rained very heavily and I was completely soaked to the skin. The heavy foundation and powder washed away, and the thick, dramatic eye make-up ran and smeared my face black. I looked like a chimney sweep. I ran through the rain to my boyfriend's house. When I got there he did not recognise me at first. When he did, he let me in out of the rain. I went straight to the sink and washed the whole lot off with a strong bar of soap.

Looking at my bare but sparkling-clean face, I realised that this was an improvement. I looked natural and healthy, not tarty and fake. My boyfriend, who was seeing my face for the first time without my slap, was astonished and told me I looked far more beautiful without it. From that day onwards, I have never worn any make-up at all. I realised that make-up is a mask, and my natural beauty is more appealing to men than my artificial face. Girls, wash-off your make-up and show the world your true beauty. It is far more appealing than a clown's face. There is so much more to envy in a natural face, than a chemical one.

I gathered together my entire make-up collection and distributed it among my friends. Now my friends are not embarrassed by me anymore, and men don't treat me like I'm an easy shag. I get the respect that I deserve. I can just wash my face in the morning and go! It's so easy and so much cheaper.

N., what does that grate comment mean?

By not wearing make-up I save myself money and time. Make-up is so expensive and overrated. It might improve an ugly girl marginally, but it's certainly not a miracle-worker. It can't turn Bette Midler into Julia Roberts. It's also smelly, gloopy and horrid. There are so many pretty girls, who wear the stuff thinking that it makes them look better. When it actually makes them look worse. Especially eyeliner, mascara and blue eyeshadow, it looks so cheap and nasty.

My grandmother never wore make-up and was still a beautiful woman at the age of 87. I believe in what she always told me about make-up: it's an invention of the devil.

People respond very favourably to a clean, stylish, classically groomed woman. Why do you think Bond Girls are so popular? Because they epitomise glamour and femininity, like all women should. No woman should be afraid of make-up, it is our ultimate weapon against men. Looking your best 100% of the time, gives you confidence and a feeling of being able to take on the world. It also makes you popular with men as well. No man wants to date a poorly groomed baglady with a plain face, they want sexiness, glamour, sophistication.

There are too many women who are lazy and won't make the effort. It's time they started to.

"ultimate weapon"?
what, do you wear poison lipstick?

If this is the case, then The Devil really needs to bring back his Bonne Bell lip pencil in "natural tawny", like poste haste.

That's supposed to be an argument against makeup?

But as I learned from growing up with copies of Allure
scattered around the house, if you apply makeup correctly it looks
like you're not wearing makup.

"WELL,"

the crowd roared,

"WHY NOT SKIP APPLYING MAKEUP IN THE FIRST PLACE?"

"Because," the little man replied, "I didn't say you can't
notice a difference. It makes you look healthier, happier,
glowing. More attractive. That's the point isn't it They
do it for the cinema stars, dear."

"YOU SIR, ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, AND NOT THE SOLUTION.
MAKEUP IS LIKE NYLONS AND LEG SHAVING: IT WAS INVENTED BY
MALES TO MAKE US THEIR HELPLESS PLAYTHINGS."

"But, but, men used to wear makeup too."

"SHUT UP."

i also know girls who are prettier with make up than other girls without makeup. some of those girls are even prettier without makeup, some aren't.

i know girls without makeup who are not as pretty as other girls with makeup. some of those girls are even less pretty with makeup, some aren't.

i also know girls who are not as pretty with make up as other girls without makeup. some of those girls are even less pretty without makeup, some aren't.

depends on the girl, i guess. and the makeup.

as shown on scattergraph above, there is no conclusive correlation between prettiness and the amount of makeup worn. (prettiness of the samples without makeup are included in the graph for reference)

I'm really pleased about that. When all the girls at school were using make-up for the first time, and making terrible mistakes with it, resulting in laughs from the boys, I was one of the few girls who wasn't called names. Boys appreciated my natural, healthy look. They always hated kissing the other girls and getting gooey lipgloss or lipstick over their lips. Some girls were so vain they would never let their guys kiss them, in case their lipstick got smudged and they would have to re-apply.

I thought the girls looked silly with their orange, foundation-caked faces. I also found the clumpy, spidery mascara look very scary. The girls would put loads of make-up on their faces before they came to school, then they would go into the toilets at lunchtimes and basically double-up on everything they had used that morning. They used cheap glittery eyeshadows, in horrid shades of green which they thought looked pretty, but really looked hideous. The eyeliner was always very thick and exaggerated. They put loads of the stuff on for school photographs. I saw a school photo the other day and really laughed.

The girls all made fun of me for not wearing make-up in the photos, a few even 'kindly' offered to put some make-up on for me. But I refused. I looked better in those mugshots than they did. Boys loved the fact that I didn't wear any slap, that I didn't spend hours getting ready to go out, or refuse to let them touch my face or kiss me. As an added bonus, my skin always looked clean and glowing. The other girls got spots and blackheads because they were wearing so much stuff on their faces. So, I never grew up with make-up and never used it. I have never relied on it for confidence, so I don't wear any now. I never wear any make-up at all.

I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing make-up as long as it's done tastefully. But, I don't wear the stuff myself-even though I'm perfectly capable of affording it now.

how does this work?

I work in a factory, and there is no point getting glammed up just to work there. I have to get up early to work, so I'm too tired and lazy to bother with make-up. Besides, my favourite actress Gwyneth Paltrow walks around New York without make-up on all the time, and she looks good. People have told me that I am naturally pretty without any cosmetic help, so I think I will follow in Gwyneth's footsteps.