TS: Billy Corgan vs. Stephen Malkmus

billy, duh

Malkmus: as singer, songwriter, guitarist. I don't care now, but laconic >>> vomiting on sleeve

I expect no one to agree

how is this even a thing? malkmus.

pavement suck

now

Malkmus by a million miles

don't care about his post-Pavement career at all but his catalog of Pavement songs is just more interesting than the album-and-a-half of decent material that Corgan mustered. Alfred otm about the laconic >>>>vomit-on-sleeve thing lol

I don't like Pavement as much now as I did 20 years ago, but I still think they're okay. Outside of Gish, I give no fucks about Smashing Pumpkins now and have long found Billy Corgan insufferable.

Malkmus by technicality.

stepping away from this thread forever because it's already making me mad and you people suck

I shouldn't have used this binary because stuff like "Appels and Oranjes" is as laconic as Pavement, and Malkmus could write solo "I had a cra gin and tonic/It wounded me," which as florid as an Corganerie.

* "I had a crap"

vomiting >>>>> laconic

malkmus is way dreamier. corgan is anti-dreamy.

the messiness and openness of Corgan's writing is much more moving and engaging to me than the coy, cold sarcasm and stoned wordplay of Malkmus. I love Crooked Rain and most of Wowee Zowee, and a handful of songs here and there, but stylistically and philosophically, Corgan takes it, because he makes music to believe in.

"corgan is anti-dreamy" whaaaa!!!!!!

instinctively I'm all for dying of repression than telling people shit. Plus, Malkmus is sexier playing guitar and looking the part.

Corgan is ugly.

i don't want to cause crut to burst into flames but smashing pumpkins lyrics are so dumb they make me want to die

xp Alfred 100% otm

Well this thread took a weird turn almost immediately.

ugly >>>> looking the part

Malkmus and Corgan have won and claimed their respective bases, so it's a draw.

damn alfred even in this pic?

http://plannedbanter.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/billy110.jpg

y'all don't understand. this is the core, the heart music

guys

the lyrics to "disarm"

what i choose is my choice
...
the killer in me is the killer in you

i realize typing out lyrics on a website is unfair but
yuck

"obscured" is way dreamy

nothing made me feel more alienated from my social cohort than the popularity of smashing pumpkins when i was in high school

both are shallow songwriters, although Corgan less willingly so (I doubt Malkmus would blanche at being told he was), but Corgan gets a pass for helping songwriters who understand shallowness-is-depth (e.g. Courtney Love) better than he.

I'm not making sense, so I'll just claim Malkmus' 'flash' had no chance of mainstream acceptance, while Corgan's eventually expired its half life.

Corgan looks like he suffered from halitosis to accompany his neurosis.

y'all don't understand. this is the core, the heart music

― bun b bag (crüt),

no idea what cores and hearts are

(asking for posts very much in character attention but hey)

Malkmus was always so mean to Spiral Stairs. But he never went on Alex Jones spouting paranoid bullshit, so him.

During the Pavement days, I always wished for more Spiral Stairs songs. Then Pavement broke up and we got Preston School of Industry and I was forced to eat my words. Malkmus knew the truth.

This is going to be one of those "the fight is so vicious because the stakes are so small" situations, isn't it.

i think this poll could literally change the world

Corgan takes it, because he makes music to believe in.

lol

I mean maybe if Billy had written a decent gospel song or something but c'mon now let's be serious

i feel like it is just obvious! i would vote for a day-old sandwich i left in my purse overnight over billy corgan! let alone malkmus, whom i love.

narcissism is not really a viable belief system unless your church only has one member: you

xp

"believe in me as i believe in you"

separate the artist from the art

i feel like it is just obvious! i would vote for a day-old sandwich i left in my purse overnight over billy corgan! let alone malkmus, whom i love.

― horseshoe,

Corgan:

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/62/d0/f9/62d0f9216a0097ff148d03c1c1b7f79e.jpg

Billy Corgan vs. Dave Mustaine

his narcissism is all over his art, is the problem

well one of the problems anyway

Alfred, you sure that spread isn't from another Billy- Crystal- in This Is Spinal Tap?

i feel like it is just obvious! i would vote for a day-old sandwich i left in my purse overnight over billy corgan!

― horseshoe, Monday, October 13, 2014 6:51 PM (

his narcissism is a feature not a bug

his narcissism is all over his art, is the problem

well one of the problems anyway

― Οὖτις, Monday, October 13, 2014 7:00 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anymore than John Lennon or Kurt Cobain? probably less

I did like that one one-off of his that da croupier had a screen name after- Zwan.

Loved and still love both. Ranged Life's ~shots fired~ lyrics were traumatic at the time. For a minute or so, but still. Corgan quite literally grew up to be an insufferable dumbass, Malkmus became the awkward, quiet uncle who drinks a bit too much and you feel kind of sorry for at family reunions. Both shot to fame only to completely bomb after that. Corgan went all out berserk religion and wrestling style, Malkmus resigned to some "ok" noodling on his guitar being nothing better than a very poor man's Ted Leo-imitation.

Corgan sunk deeper, but at least he jumped the shark grotesquely and in an enjoyable/insufferable way. Malkmus just seems to try to disappear more and more, trying to be "witty" in the process, releasing mediocre albums every three years.

Voting Corgan. He tanked it but he tanked it good.

otm

"Range Life" *shots fired* wasn't The Statement critics said it was. Flash guy, meet fellow flash guy. Plus, writers will die for a witty stanza.

i.e. false binary

as opposed to the very substantial binaries you've been filling this thread with

What was it then? Teenage me heard Malkmus flaming Corgan. Difficult to hear it otherwise tbh

Xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTjolEUj00g

as opposed to the very substantial binaries you've been filling this thread with

― some dude,

ugly vs not ugly guitarist -- what else counts?

This thread inspired me to listen to Wig Out at Jagbags and, like with every Malkmus solo album, I find myself thinking "Hey, this isn't as bad as I was expecting" knowing full well I'll never play it again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wymViayJyG4

Otm. Malkmus became so dreadfully "ok" yet utterly, completely boring it is just as much insufferable as Corgan's all out madness. Xp

i've got a bald head / my name is yul brynner / and i am a famous movie star

would rather hear Corgan sing "Embassy Row" these days

picturing corgan singing "fight this generation"

Hey people, sisters and brothers, brothers and sisters, come on now. That means everybody just cool out.

the Range Life lyric is pretty mild, but then again he does lump the pumpkins in with stone temple pilots, which really is a shot in the back. either way, it had real consequences because Corgan forced Pavement off of Lollapalooza in 1994 by threatening not to play, after they had replaced Nirvana as the headliners.

Malkmus was always so mean to Spiral Stairs.

malkmus was not at all mean to spiral stairs during the reunion shows, but i felt kinda bad because the former was basically a rock god and the latter basically looked like paul simon

run them both through a wood chipper and use them as chum.

voted Corgan.

Spiral Stairs basically sucks

I just want to remind everyone that this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3tV8n-CVnA#t=22263

...and then again, this also happened:

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10537192_10102666232156215_742803194163461979_o.jpg

what -- those jeans?

Can't see the image, is he wearing Bob Weir Daisy Duke jorts?

malkmus but i'm having a hard time coming up with strong feelings about this. i guess my main argument would be that most of the stuff corgan has done is completely embarassing but i'll always have time for cherub rock and rhinoceros.

is Weir Daisy Duke Jorts the follow-up to Wigwam Jagoff At Jackie Jormp-Jomp's?

smashing pumpkins are that rare band where I really can't understand why anyone likes their music at all, it's just so horrible

there isn't a band on the planet I wouldn't vote for ahead of smashing pumpkins

Afraid I'm not familiar with that particular opus.
(Xp)

tbh i think it's kind of cool when someone with a piercingly unpleasant voice, ridiculous pretensions and a toxic personality muscles their way to multi-million sales with a good ear for hooks. Malkmus got pretty much exactly where he was likely to land with his influences and skill set, Corgan's ascent was so unlikely as to be almost illogical.

Take both these guys over Grohl's nice guy ubiquituous torchbearer of rock bullshit

^this actually

is grohl a secret asshole? hadn't heard

well obviously. courntey love's "He’s just a sub-mediocre kind of guy who does this ‘nice guy’ nonsense” is just searing, but otm.

xp

malkmus was not at all mean to spiral stairs during the reunion shows, but i felt kinda bad because the former was basically a rock god and the latter basically looked like paul simon.

Man, imagine being the Garfunkel, but looking like the Simon.

I was always on SS' side until I finally heard the full version of Nothing Ever Happens.

I mean, more like Wounded Cat, amirite?

kannberg looked completely miserable by the end of the pavement reunion show i saw but oh well

Corgan. Pavement are/were fucking wank.

I just feel it's easier to tell Malkmus to shut up.

There is something really nasty and insecure about Corgan's extroverts ways and I can't stand that, despite the fact that I've always enjoyed his desire to create a broad landscape as music and many other ideas behind the Smashing Pumpkins. So yeah sure Pavement didn't shoot for the moon the same way, but they hit the right notes with me.

Malkmus was always so mean to Spiral Stairs.

malkmus was not at all mean to spiral stairs during the reunion shows, but i felt kinda bad because the former was basically a rock god and the latter basically looked like paul simon

― mookieproof, Monday, 13 October 2014 23:41 (Yesterday) Permalink

thought at the reunion show I caught malkmus played half-heartedly whenever a SS number was up

these reunion shows sound pretty much like exactly the ones I saw in the 90s.

Well, minus the

http://i.imgur.com/3lZIgTF.jpg

feel uncomfortable even having to cast a vote for one of these straight white male pieces of human trash, but malkmus

well obviously. courntey love's "He’s just a sub-mediocre kind of guy who does this ‘nice guy’ nonsense” is just searing

I'm far more pro-Courtney than most but I wouldn't take her opinions on people in Kurt's inner circle as gospel. I think people are just loath to admit that people who are famous at least partially for being "nice" might genuinely be nice because they don't like their output.

i think we can all agree that kurt would've hated the foo fighters (as they were after he wasn't, at least)

A few of Grohl's ideas about rock purism are dumb as shit, but I have a friend who knows him and I believe her when she says he's genuinely nice and a pretty dope friend.

always thought he was a good guy, never dug his music and sort of resent him for being as popular as he is, but hey. great guy

http://www.nme.com/news/courtney-love/80347

i believe every word

paul simon is cute!

feel like this is comparing neil young and don henley

malkmus is definitely a henley, spot on

TS: Malkmus vs. Madona

corgy vs. malky

could corgy pull off 'ege bamyasi' with such swag though?

prob not - but the cars?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqJG-FEnzMY

Rhinoceros, Mayonnaise, Soma, and Drown vs. sideman on American Water and Tanglewood Numbers.

Don't know which way I'll lean, honestly.

ugh you had me goin there for a second dude

i think we can all agree that kurt would've hated the foo fighters (as they were after he wasn't, at least)

This is the Kurt Cobain who can be heard covering Led Zeppelin in the early Nirvana tapes, right? Just checking!

A few of Grohl's ideas about rock purism are dumb as shit, but I have a friend who knows him and I believe her when she says he's genuinely nice and a pretty dope friend.

I have a friend in Alexandria, VA who has a professional relationship with Grohl and says the same.

Dave Grohl is rich and satisfied.

i think we can all agree that kurt would've hated the foo fighters (as they were after he wasn't, at least)

This is the Kurt Cobain who can be heard covering Led Zeppelin in the early Nirvana tapes, right? Just checking!

the foo fighters do not sound like zeppelin, they're alt MOR crap

At this stage Dave Grohl's phonebook is more interesting than Dave Grohl

xp I'm just skeptical that anyone here can channel the thoughts of a 20-years-dead guy who like things as disparate as Zeppelin, Tad, the Vaselines, Bowie and the Beatles and claim that we can "all agree" on what he would and wouldn't like.

he would be playing noise sets and making tape collages

he would've attended the superbowl last year

he would've attended played halftime at the superbowl last year

Phil D otm

he would've attended played halftime wide receiver for the Ravens at the superbowl last year

he would be as beloved as eddie vedder right now

xp The Ravens weren't in the last superbowl.

They would have been with Kurt at wide-out.

somehow appropriate that this has devolved into sportstalk Malk and Corgy both being secret jocks

Most of Malkmus's solo albums, even Mirror Traffic, feel pleasant but unnecessary, and I spent much of my adolescence blasting Siamese Dream and making excuses for Mellon Collie and most of Adore, but I like American Water more than anything the Pumpkins ever did, and as far as I know Malkmus never bragged in his livejournal about having threatened to break a trans woman's arms and legs if she sullied his hetero good name, so the point goes to Malkmus.

I didn't know about the trans woman :/

I mean, there are already plenty of reasons to find Corgan insufferable, but that kind of clenched it for me.

I just feel it's easier to tell Malkmus to shut up.

well he likes to seem intellectual
and to be a musician he went to school
the way he acts is so uncool
you know i can't stand him

you better tell that steve to shut up
you better tell that steve i'm gonna beat him up

The photographer Naomi Petersen (RIP) was my dear, dear friend. She was a good friend of Grohl's and we all went to see Metallica together in DC in 92. This was at the height of Nevermind frenzy. He's just a really nice, really upbeat guy.

I've heard nothing but how genuine DG is, dude's really like that.

But that said, I've never been able to get into Foo Fighters. It's like blue static, where every song is either "Everlong" or not "Everlong".

I have no problem believing Grohl is the nicest Bob Lesfetz fan on the planet

voting malkmus even if i understand why people prefer someone who tries too hard over someone who sometimes doesn't try hard enough

i am disappointed that this is the question that really gets ilx talking

what is the question you would like us to talk about

i don't care about this!!!!

i didn't say i had a better idea
i just said it was disappointing

how about: which is more disgusting, mice or rats?

rats

ok how about which is more disgusting, rats or jell-o salad with meat floating in it?

ugh they are both so gross

rats. rats can bite you.

it's relatively easy to get jell-o salad with meat floating in it out of your apartment

nothing is grosser than greasy fat rats.

except Billy Corgan

rat in a cage

despite all his rage he is still just a rat in a jello meat moat

xp :-(

Emptiness is loneliness, and loneliness is cleanliness
And cleanliness is godliness, and i'm in jell-o
just like meat

you know who has meat-studded jell-o salad in their apartment? elegant bachelors

stone temple pilots also enjoy meat-float jell-o salads

what if the meat is rat meat in the jell-o

mice and rats are both lovely creatures what is wrong w/yall

i wanna run thru your rat-meat jell-o
heard that's the place to find you

ok how about which is more disgusting, rats or jell-o salad with meat floating in it?

― cross over the mushroom circle (La Lechera

Completely disgusting foods our parents ate

I have no problem believing Grohl is the nicest Bob Lesfetz fan on the planet

― da croupier, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 12:25 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

people say a lot of nasty things about Grohl for reasons i don't fully understand but this is probably the coldest

despite all my rage I am still just a mouse in a cage

Malkmus over Corgan by a hair or two, and I have a lot of affection for both of them. Corgan's lows have been just so DIRE.

can't find the the video in which Corgan uses the first verse of Bullets for a mixed martial arts intro.

that is definitely his nadir

Voted Corgan. Adolescent love for Siamese Dream clinched it.

Never heard about this threat to a trans woman, though.

Malkmus over Corgan by a hair or two,

http://media1.giphy.com/media/10dJBypgfsmxfG/200.gif

lol

http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/paws_chicago_2014-1.jpg

what

February 17, 2004 was a momentous day for Smashing Pumpkins fans. For the first time in the four years since the original band’s last show, frontman and songwriter Billy Corgan broke the silence surrounding the band’s breakup in a stream-of-consciousness styled blog post. A post that began with personal news:

You know that Beatles song ‘I’m so tired, I haven’t slept a wink….’? I’m having one of those weeks…I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sammi and mister thom cat…they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn’t know you could get into…mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello…

http://www.pawschicago.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/corgan-cats-610x3791-282x175.png

Ok, s.d. nice find.

it was def on one of the other Pumpkins threads when it happened a few months ago. but never a bad excuse to bring it up again.

indie ege bamyasi turned out to be way cooler/better than modular siddartha. otoh, kittens.

http://blog.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/wp-content/stephen-malkmus-mit-katze.jpg

"You know that Beatles song 'Pool of sorrow, waves of joy....'? I'm having one of those weeks..."

ugh barf

Corgan's highs are higher but his lows are way lower. Understandable since Corgan 'speaks from his heart' while Malkmus' work seems to be centered around the mediocre mindset that if you don't try, you don't fail. Not saying Pavement are a mediocre band but imho Malkmus' indifference is real while Corgan's is just a defense mechanism. I'm sure Corgan has lost more sleep over a bad review than Malkmus.

So, I guess I like Malkmus better as a person and I can actually picture him as a friend that I could see frequently and talk stupid shit while drinking but music-wise I think Corgan has the better songs. I'm also sure he would be insufferable as a drinking partner.

Which actually doesn't really incline my vote anywhere. What are we voting here for, precisely?

I prefer corgan's wide dynamic range. 5 awesome albums I still spin.

i like all the pavement albums and think the jicks have about two great albums in them if you put all their best songs together (and one of those albums is pig lib).

i haven't listened to a pumpkins-related lp in a long time but they had a couple good singles.

oh yeah, and the silver jews stuff malk plays on is excellent, which is another point in malk's favor.

You guys are kinda weird

pig lib / american water > smashing pumpkins/zwan

^ higher highs

lots of people on this thread are higher high

i relate to the violence, bitterness, and hatred in corgan's music. as well as the love and all

the "Malkmus isn't trying" canard is so received-wisdom. what is he not trying to do, or trying not to do? which bands are unlazily doing the thing that he's doing lazily? there's a sprawl to what he does but the idea that this reflects "not trying" is very "I heard somebody say 'slacker' about this music once." lyrically his stuff is so much more fine-tuned than Corgan, it's a pretty hard-won ease imo

malkmus isn't a bad lyricist, but his songs/his 'message' is so opaque to only appeal to a pretty slim set of people. corgan's universal and easily translated tropes like "believe in me as i believe in you," "i'm in love with you, so in love" "love is suicide" "i lie just to be real," "today is the greatest day" connect with millions more people and have an actual philanthropic effect. think about it this way- how many smashing pumpkins songs have saved people from suicide, from grief, etc?

we all have a little Corgan in us and thats hard to come to terms with for a lot of people

i take the hardline position that every pavement and every silver jews album is better than every smashing pumpkins album. siamese dream might be better than a couple jicks albums tho so i see you corgan backers

'Hey, do you have a little Corgan in you?'

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/dc9/billycorgan.jpg

'Would you like some?'

don't have a problem with the hyperemotional platonic corgan, strongly object to the shitty song writing shitty voice having shitty person being actual corgan

GIS'ing doesnt deliver, they've never actually been in the same room together?

Makes u think.

we all have a little Corgan in us and thats hard to come to terms with for a lot of people

― ET sippin the wig (spazzmatazz), W

the killer in me is the killer in you eh

corgan's universal and easily translated tropes like "believe in me as i believe in you," "i'm in love with you, so in love" "love is suicide" "i lie just to be real," "today is the greatest day" connect with millions more people and have an actual philanthropic effect.

Either you are trolling or you also believe the Dave Matthews Band is better than both of these jokers.

think about it this way- how many smashing pumpkins songs have saved people from suicide, from grief, etc?

I'd bet Smashing Pumpkins has caused a lot more grief than Pavement. Won't even go down the suicide route except to say I eye my wrists whenever "Disarm" comes on the radio.

lol yeah this is dangerous rabbit hole stuff tbf

'the world is a vampire'

just one of the many sins washed away by 'cherub rock', 'drown', etc.

'Graaaaaaave architecture'? stfu get Berman in here for a rewrite

malkmus's lou reedy vocals appeal to me more than corgan's high pitched screech. malkmus's guitar style and tone appeal to me more than corgan's fussy feedback riffs. malkmus's melodies hit me harder than corgan's. malkmus's lyrical abstractions, wordplay, and jokes appeal to me more than corgan's complaints. corgan's everybro bio's a little more easy to relate to though -- not privileged, no college _versus_ university of virginia, no student loans?

Never heard about this threat to a trans woman, though.

― EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, October 14, 2014 7:05 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Just so I'm not leaving floating allegations, that livejournal passage is quoted near the bottom of this:
http://www.queerty.com/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-calls-transwoman-a-heshe-and-an-ugly-pig-20110901p
I think Corgan took down his transphobic tweets about Devi Ever, but the original lj entry (about the other incident) is still up here: http://billycorgan.livejournal.com/11224.html
(NB I do not blame anyone for not keeping up with Corgan's livejournal.)

Sorry, that url should be: http://www.queerty.com/smashing-pumpkins-billy-corgan-calls-transwoman-a-heshe-and-an-ugly-pig-20110901

Fuck, I forgot about the dustup with Devi Ever.

yeah...actually that's definitely his nadir

i think there's even a song on one of the new SP albums coming out soon called "Nadir"

ok I'm not watching this but fuck the Foo Fighters for real now

http://youtu.be/Fv5ekzTubwU

oh man we should a Foo Fighters vs. Nirvana poll :D

I think it's SM who might be the insufferable drinking partner. It seems like a shallow reading to declare him a detached, terminally ironic superficial hipster type, but I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. I watched this interview with Ian Svenonious (think it's on youtube) that was just UGH.

Billy seems like kinda like a bro??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=624HfkMty_8

who plays better lead guitar – Macca, Corg, or Malk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WleSh2SY304

i rest my case

that actually shows his virtuosity as a rhythm player - this is more lead-heavy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzeyLkvn9E

this one too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzBVvD1vUvM

much prefer malkmus's music as a whole, though he never had a '1979' moment, where the entire ethos is distilled into a single song of immense power ('gold soundz' probably closest but still so far)

don't care what either of them are like off-record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR9aRK2HdNc

the "Malkmus isn't trying" canard is so received-wisdom. what is he not trying to do, or trying not to do? which bands are unlazily doing the thing that he's doing lazily? there's a sprawl to what he does but the idea that this reflects "not trying" is very "I heard somebody say 'slacker' about this music once."

A fundamental part of Pavement's aesthetic, at least on the first couple of albums, seems to be that they were playing pop/rock music but were deliberately not trying to be tight or polished in their musical execution. (The Pumpkins mostly certainly were trying to sound like a polished, super-layered arena rock machine.) They came up with a distinctive sound by doing so but it doesn't seem like too much of a leap to say that they were 'not trying' in this way.

yeah, otm

I think it's SM who might be the insufferable drinking partner. It seems like a shallow reading to declare him a detached, terminally ironic superficial hipster type, but I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. I watched this interview with Ian Svenonious (think it's on youtube) that was just UGH.

Billy seems like kinda like a bro??

― rip van wanko

There's a thread somewhere about things Billy Corgan said to a member of some other band at a bar... Stone Temple Pilots or Soundgarden - don't remember - and he sounds like the worst drinking partner.

the core. the heart music. echo & the bunnymen.

things Billy Corgan said to Kim Thayil in Australia in 1994 poll

seems to be that they were playing pop/rock music but were deliberately not trying to be tight or polished in their musical execution

you think it's easy but you're wrong

Malkmus' process is refined, but the results are not on purpose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4JGSxMzms

i hope you don't have to be branford marsalis to grasp how this could be seen as "not trying"

or rather, "sure could try harder"

selling luxury homes now. shameful.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1484956/pavement%20driveway%20for%20your%20luxury%20home.png

corgan would never

*devil eyes*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhvrvVGh2hY

I don't want to be anywhere near billy Corgan and alcohol.

would you close your door when you play that please xp

recent pro-corgi posts in this thread making me wish i had never been a sp fan

paws cover makes me believe though

I LIE JUST TO BE REAL
AND I'D DIE JUST TO FEEL
WHY DO THE SAME OLD THINGS KEEP ON HAPPENING?
BEYOND MY HOPES, THERE ARE NO FEELINGS THERE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFVRYbtQ_A

"Stop Breathin" is Malkmus' masterpiece imo. incredible song

lyrics of "tales of scorched earth" make a real case for malkmus

"scorched earth" is an apt description for Corgan's vocals

I'd maybe go for "Wicked Wanda" as the finest Malkmus.

some real Brazilian nuts in Malkmus' lyrics

I never got into Pavement until after they broke up but I did see them live twice and was shocked that they weren't awful because everyone always said they were uncaring slackers who couldn't actually play anything. I loved Smashing Pumpkins when they were around but never saw them live which is kind of a major regret.

Nowadays I'll listen to any Pavement record or b-side or lost track but as far as I'm concerned there are only 2 Smashing Pumpkins records (three if you count Pieces Iscariot).

U Beefin My Grimes?

murder burnout hipsters! unite! come align for the big fight . . . to rock . . . for you! beware!

can't find the the video in which Corgan uses the first verse of Bullets for a mixed martial arts intro.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, October 14, 2014 6:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was pro wrestling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYcyt8FPlg

lmao

another signature Corgan song - distills a lot of his essence in three minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkgML3AJZ28

I fear that I am ordinary, just like everyone
To lie here and die among the sorrows
Adrift among the days
For everything I ever said
And everything I've ever done is gone and dead
As all things must surely have to end
And great loves will one day have to part
I know that I am meant for this world

My life has been extraordinary
Blessed and cursed and won
Time heals but I'm forever broken
By and by the way...
Have you ever heard the words
I'm singing in these songs?
It's for the girl I've loved all along
Can a taste of love be so wrong?
As all things must surely have to end
And great loves will one day have to part
I know that I am meant for this world

And in my mind as I was floating
Far above the clouds
Some children laughed I'd fall for certain
For thinking that I'd live
Forever

But I knew exactly where I was
And I knew the meaning of it all
And I knew the distance to the sun
And I knew the echo that is love
And I knew the secrets in your spires
And I knew the emptiness of youth
And I knew the solitude of hearts
And I knew the murmurs of the soul

And the world is drawn into your hands
And the world is etched upon your heart
And the world so hard to understand
Is the world your can't live without

And I knew the silence of the world

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-c-5LXYRj87U/UzERyao4xgI/AAAAAAAAA5w/g-hygRVTdq0/s1600/malk2.gif

xxxp oh yes!! thanks!!

Malkmus shrug at high school poetry class nonsense = otm

Muzzle remains one of the best songs he's ever written imho.

he's making fun of his nonsense in that song, while having this weight- the feeling is close to "well, everything's gonna be alright in the end, ashes to ashes, dust to dust"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ

he's making fun of his nonsense in that song

so he's shit at making jokes too then eh

You can't really scream to Pavement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0rTCGQ8pY

lol there are a bunch of Pavement songs with screaming in them

Unfair, Conduit for Sale etc.

yeah but it's ironic falsetto screaming, not the core/heart scream

the bunnymen scream

What the hell are you talking about. Nothing more core/heart scream than I'M TRYIN' I'M TRYIN' I'M TRYIN

While my kids pull off that nasal "I-really-mean-it-so-I'm-gonna-repeat-the-line-like-NAAAAAAAAA" thing Corgan does much better.

I like Pavement a fair amount, but not so much those moments. His comical high screech.

Anyway, my point was more that there's something earnest and emotional in Smashing Pumpkins that I don't get from Pavement and this is where my sympathies these days tend to lie.

(Alternate post: Malkmus couldn't really scream to Pavement either.)

There's a song on his solo debut where he does a crazy high scream.

oh man that Lockdown promo is something else

my point was more that there's something earnest and emotional in Smashing Pumpkins that I don't get from Pavement

I'm not trying to dogpile on you all or be obtuse about this, but I feel like this argument is going toward "Greeting cards that say 'I love you, I miss you, I am alone' are more earnest than Raymond Carver stories which never even say those things."

greeting cards written by free association

haha pplains otm

what we talk about when we talk about smashing pumpkins lyrics

I cry whenever I see Brazilian nuts

http://i.imgur.com/wmsOirK.jpg

"happy birthday, mom"

(lol pplains)

lol

i wonder if any of y'all would fuck with Adore

http://bit.ly/1vlpJ6e

corgan = america's only credible answer to shoegaze?

voted malkmus anyway because pavement

Adore is fantastic, and the closest Corgan has ever come to making music that sounds like it was written by a fully-formed human. (I say this as a pretty massive SP fan.)

"What's amazing about James and D'arcy," he notes with bona fide pride, "is that they almost never question what I want to do."

adore era interview by david fricke: http://www.starla.org/articles/ado.htm

Whoa at that Lockdown Wrestling promo. I wish I hadn't seen that, couldn't stop cringing. That settles it, then, my vote goes to Malkmus.

These two, though. They're a strong case for why aging sucks.

Btw, I just bumped into this. What the fuck Billy?

<iframe src="http://www.collegehumor.com/e/6872872"; width="600" height="369" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen allowFullScreen></iframe><div style="padding:5px 0; text-align:center; width:600px;"><p><a href="//www.collegehumor.com/videos/most-viewed/this-year">CollegeHumor's Favorite Funny Videos</a></p></div>

http://www.collegehumor.com/embed/6872872/billy-corgans-wrestling-ad-for-chicago-furniture-store

Here's the youtube embed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESMCx0KNVkw

hes just having a bit of a laugh

That one is actually not that bad, but the cage one is a bad idea wherever you look at it. It butchers the song, he looks and sounds like a tool and it's a bad ad. I don't see which audience would look at it and go: that's awesome dude!

the core audience, the heart audience

These two, though. They're a strong case for why aging sucks.

― Moka, Friday, October 17, 2014 3:43 PM (Yesterday)

i don't understand this.. Malkmus' music is consistently decent to good and the guy seems pretty healthy.. well-mosturized, at least.

last couple Jicks records are up there w/face the truth, their music is better than anything Thurston, Beck, or Lee Ranaldo have put out for years. And sure, rating Jicks albums is a subjective endeavor. But, shit, Malk's post-pavement output is as consistent as Starbucks. Can't say much for Billy Corgan, but yeah, Siamese Dream is awesome.

Billy Corgan > Beck > Milkymoose

TS: Pavement / Smashing Pumpkins

Ray Rogers: You've said that [your last album] Siamese Dream was born out of a lot of personal and band-related crises. What was the impetus for Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness?

Billy Corgan:It was basically a big "fuck-off" to anyone who has doubted us as a band. In a positive way, I wanted to really embrace the notions of creativity, to just go as far out as we wanted to go and not get too hung up about the commercial aspects.

RR:What kinds of doubts are you talking about?

BC: Doubts about the band actually coming together to make a record. I wanted to squash all that like a bug.

James Iha: It's a double record-that just doesn't happen if people aren't together on every level.

RR:Billy, you got a lot a lot of criticism last time around for playing some of the guitar and bass parts [on Siamese Dream]. How did you react to that with this record?

BC: We worked out systems by which those things wouldn't happen this time. Nobody understands the scenario: We were under different pressures, different economic constraints. Not everybody moves as quickly as I do. James comes up with great ideas; it just takes him twice as long as it takes me. So I try not to penalize anybody for the speed at which they move.

JI: It doesn't really take me twice as long.

BC:It's a general comment.

DH: Well, yeah.

These two, though. They're a strong case for why aging sucks.

― Moka, Friday, October 17, 2014 3:43 PM (Yesterday)

i don't understand this.. Malkmus' music is consistently decent to good and the guy seems pretty healthy.. well-mosturized, at least.

last couple Jicks records are up there w/face the truth, their music is better than anything Thurston, Beck, or Lee Ranaldo have put out for years. And sure, rating Jicks albums is a subjective endeavor. But, shit, Malk's post-pavement output is as consistent as Starbucks. Can't say much for Billy Corgan, but yeah, Siamese Dream is awesome.

― braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:08 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Oh man, that new Pumpkins single. As a song it's whatever, but the production is so late-model CVS Bangers. It's on some Edwin McCain shit.

malkmus = boring uncle good at crossword
corgan = crazy cat lady

struck by a surface thought that it seems so incongruous pavement came out of suburban california, how do teenagers get into the fall or the replacements or w/e in stockton in the late 80s? record stores? hippie burnouts like gary young?

outic probably knows

college

yeah

or did SM & Spiral have a hs band (lakespeed?) doing that sort of stuff?

College radio, NME/MelodyMaker, bay area weirdos

The myth is that Pavement came out of central California. Malkmus only lived there sporadically during summer/holiday breaks from 1983 on (boarding school in Carpenteria before getting expelled, then Charlottesville, VA). He had been living in New York (with future Pavement member Bob Nasty and then-bandmate DC Berman) by the time the first single Slay Tracks was released.

the next Pumpkins record is called Monuments to an Elegy. feel like I am being personally trolled with this title

http://www.netphoria.org/wp-content/gallery/billy-corgan/bc20.jpg

Easy choice, this.

new smashing pumpkins single almost makes me wish i could switch my vote to malkmus

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Voted Corgan. Weirdo freakshow over Portland hipster in a rock band. Also, Zero will never not be amazing to sing along to in a car. As much as I think Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain album is as close to a perfect album as a rock band should hope for, singing "Emptiness is loneliness/ and loneliness is cleanliness/and cleanliness and godliness/ and God is Empty, just like Me" will be a joy that will amuse me well into my 70s.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Lol lotta votes!

a lot of incorrect votes

32 to be exact

The right guy won.

This is one of the biggest votecounts I've ever seen in an ILM poll. Not sure how I feel about that.

perfect.

oh wait, i was thinking of Billy Ocean. my bad.

malky got exactly 3 times more votes than corgy :(

plus 2

Do we even have 130 active users on this forum?

Malkmus had it way to easy. Corgan would even lose in a favorite member of the SP poll.

Too easy*

"Destroy the mind, destroy the body, but you cannot destroy the heart."

FWIW, I think this is the best lyric BC ever wrote. it'd be cool to see what y'all think is SM's best line.

probably my fave Malkmus lyric is from "I owned Corgan in that ILX poll / I'm not from Portland I'm from Charlottes-vee-ole"

while yes, corgan got less than a quarter of the votes, i think he should be very flattered 38 people here love him more than malkmus

woops, 32.

every one of those votes was from the heart. all the pro-malkmus votes were ironic.

i'm on a pisces, we pick up on those things

now let's do james iha vs spiral stairs

*i'm a pisces

there is not a person that doesn't have an opinion about this, is the point.

We should have a favorite member of the Smashing Pumpkins poll. I honestly don't think Corgan could even win that.

Moka: DO IT!

Ok. But there are three options for the poll:

Original members which would be - Iha, Corgan, D'Arcy and Chamberlin only.
All album members: Billy Corgan, Jeff Schroeder. James Iha, D'arcy Wretzky, Jimmy Chamberlin, Melissa Auf der Maur, Mike Byrne, Nicole Fiorentino.
All album members + touring members.

I think I'll go for the second option.

don't forget Tommy Lee lol

which one's the teenager that won that contest I vote for them

Yeah, agreed on the second option. Jonathan Melvoin rip :-/

Shit I forgot Tommy Lee.

Who is your favorite member of the Smashing Pumpkins?