"EVERY HUGE ARTIST HAS A BE HERE NOW" AKA the UK version

keep the faith was huge in the UK though. They actually started playing stadiums here at that time and still do.

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:04 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the almighty wikipedia says slippery when wet is 3x platinum in the uk, new jersey 2x platinum and keep the faith 1x platinum. it does seem their singles game was strong over there though

― da croupier, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:09 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they probably got a lot more airplay with keep the faith but those 2 albums were huge at school but keep the faith kept them in the big league here with huge singles.

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:12 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

totally endorse the brits starting an "EVERY HUGE ARTIST HAS A BE HERE NOW" thread

― da croupier, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:13 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a band like def leppard certainly lost momentum here Hysteria sold a lot and lets get rocked was a huge hit and I think Adrenalize sold OK but pretty sure that meets the croteria for this thread in the UK. no idea how it sold in the usa

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:15 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

adrenalize is on the poll thread we did

BEST/MOST "BON JOVI'S NEW JERSEY" ALBUM EVER

― da croupier, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:16 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

heard "let's get rocked" on a 90s flashback station a few months ago and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

― da croupier, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:17 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the video i think promoted that song. I remember it on the chart show and totps (as well as a live performance)

I can think of one HUGE hit album wonders in the UK like Lighthouse Family or David Gray but not a Be Here Now type album. Think that might be out on its own.

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:22 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To be a New Jersey:
- follow-up to a huge, (possibly) defining record
- has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal
- brings with it the feeling that the NEXT record (if there is one) will see the bottom fall out (relatively speaking)

with the multi-platinum bar added to keep solipsistic indie fucks from talking about whichever pavement or death cab album all their friends bought but now no one talks about, and those feelings about then next dropping replaced with the knowledge so prognosticators have to sit on their hands

― da croupier, Sunday, 11 January 2015

i cant even remember the name of the follow up to simply reds 'stars' so it might qualify haha

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:23 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

A lot of legit New Jerseys seem to have one big memorable hit equatable to the biggest of the previous album and several more hits that are lost to time - Bad Medicine, Whats The Frequency Kenneth, Lets Get Rocked

― Master of Treacle, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:41 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Simply Red's follow up to Stars qualifies imo - 'Fairground' and some other stuff

― Master of Treacle, Sunday, 11 January 2015 02:51 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

how about m people?

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 03:08 (13 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

elegant slumming was huge the next album had a big hit single and sold well initially but does anyone even remember it now? and the album after had a song used on a tv ad but thats about it

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 03:11 (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

manic street preachers - this is my truth tell me yours

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, 11 January 2015 03:12 (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

soon to be seen on no way sna

So along with
Def Leppard - Adrenalize
Simply Red - Life
M People - Northern Soul
Manic Street Preachers - This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours

how about Paul Weller - Heavy Soul?

Dire Straits - On Every Street (I had to look up the name of it but there was a huge fuss at the time as it was the long awaited follow up to Brothers In Arms and it did sell 3million in the UK and 10m worldwide.)
It was their last album though .

Da Croupier how big was Brothers In Arms in the us? Would they fit on that thread too?

Brothers in Arms was huge like Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Prince etc

This Is My Truth went triple platinum, gave the Manics their first number one, mad them much bigger internationally than Everything Must Go, set them up to headline Glastonbury and the Millennium Stadium, and contains two of their most well-known hits.

sadly it sucks mostly

maybe it was just me who felt it was the beginning of the end (tho i did like the album after)

Brothers in Arms certified nine times platinum, which means it has shipped nine million copies in the United States.

wow i had no idea they sold so many over there.
I assume Simply Red weren't a big deal in the states?

Try Wiki.

Simply Red scored two #1 singles in the States and two albums that did OK sales riding on their heels. I know Stars was massive in England, but here "Something Got Me Started" scraped into the top forty (it was a substantial club hit though, especially when remixed).

I do remember a dance remix now you mention it but i dont think that was the one played on daytime radio i must have heard it on pete tongs show

Brothers in arms was huge in the us but on every street wasn't huge enough to be a New Jersey

Stateside On Every Street would be a Fairweather Johnson

M People - Northern Soul

You mean Bizarre Fruit, right?

This Is My Truth went triple platinum, gave the Manics their first number one, mad them much bigger internationally than Everything Must Go, set them up to headline Glastonbury and the Millennium Stadium, and contains two of their most well-known hits.

― Minaj moron (Re-Make/Re-Model), Sunday, January 11, 2015 7:00 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah I think you get tweaks to this phenom like when a band is still on an upward trajectory in terms of popular impact but have already crested in terms of quality/importance: I'm sure there a lot of people for whom This Is My Truth... was their first MSP record but when they worked backwards they discovered that it was actually their worst album to date by some distance (though OTOH people who like "If You Tolerate This..." may only really have liked Everything Must Go of the past material in any event).

In this sense This Is My Truth... is as much as a What's The Story Morning Glory as it is a Be Here Now (though it fits neither camp cleanly).

tim maybe. I forget the names . I know you are more likely to be right though.

xps

tim tbh I dont think there is any album that fits a new jersey - slippery when wet exactly anyway

I honestly, genuinely thought the game was up for the Manics around the time of This Is My Truth..., even though the album was successful and 'If You Tolerate This...' went to #1, and the two albums after it (Know Your Enemy and especially Lifeblood) did nothing to convince me that they weren't sliding further still.

That they managed to somehow claw things back a little with Send Away The Tigers and Journal For Plague Lovers was amazing to me, but then they put out Postcards From A Young Man that wasn't the massive commercial smash they hoped it would be, and they've drifted back into being a cult band but with a large following.

I do get bored of the "Richey obsessive" angle of Manic Street Preachers fandom, though, and the relentless worship of The Holy Bible as if its the only worthwhile thing the band has ever done, which is nonsense.

Life by Simply Red definitely applies here. 'Fairground' and 'Remembering The First Time' were the two big hits off the album if I recall, and I guess plenty of people were waiting for it on the back of Stars (I wouldn't know, I certainly wasn't one of them), but it came out in the year that Oasis got ridiculously massive in the UK, and Parklife had already happened in the interim, leaving Mick Hucknall looking a bit old hat really. You gotta remember that at the time whenever Noel Gallagher opened his mouth to criticise or praise something in '95-'96, a lot of people actually hung on to every single one of his coke-tinged words, not having reached that point (like now) where he whines about the state of music and people are like "oh give it a rest, you backwards-looking rockist fuck". Noel could big himself up and get away with it at that time, whereas Mick Hucknall used to do the same thing and people thought he was a deluded, arrogant, womanising prick.

'We're In This Together', the "official" England song for Euro '96 was a track on Life, but was anyone singing it? Were they fuck. They were singing 'Three Lions' instead.

I can certainly think of a few britpop era bands that sorta fit the bill (OCS) but i wanted to avoid making yet another britpop thread lol

Im hoping marcello or someone will give us older examples

Elvis Costello - Spike

the Manics don't fit this sort of treatment, creatively speaking. Their last few records are at least interesting and frequently great, though yes at this point they are a diehards-only proposition commercially

I think This Is My Truth is the correct album for this thread, I actually can't think of a better example. It was obvious from Know Your Enemy's release that was already in motion.

*the slide

haha we're gonna be arguing over the manics for the rest of this thread arent we?

It is so completely their Be Here Now, it sold tonnes but no one was truly satisfied with it. Know Your Enemy was their 'Shoulder', when they were now something of a bit of a joke.

I liked KYE though

The 2nd Cast album I suppose fits too on that it sold loads and had big singles but...

but again there must be non britpop-era examples like dire straits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_Kingdom

I can certainly think of a few britpop era bands that sorta fit the bill (OCS) but i wanted to avoid making yet another britpop thread lol

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:06 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree, it would be way too easy to list a whole bunch of Britpop albums. Way too easy.

but im sure Dido must fit the bill all the same

(she has 2 of the biggest selling albums ever in the uk)

Oh shit, that list had just reminded me that The Corrs used to be a thing.

Talk On Corners I remember was quite big here and yielded several hit singles, but the follow-up In Blue was probably their Be Here Now. I'm looking at the tracklisting for it now and the only hit I recall on it is the lead single, 'Breathless'.

Also, maybe The Hush by Texas.

Scissor Sisters' Ta-Dah? Sold loads initially and spawned one giant single and then ran out of steam very quickly

if you compare
looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_Kingdom

with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_in_the_United_States

you really notice how much more gigantic Led Zep were in the US than the UK (not to mention ac/dc and most rawk bands)

I bet any americans looking at it will be stunned at the lack of led zep in the list

Also how on earth are so many 90s albums in the list?

Look at the US sales figures for Pearl Jam's Ten compared to the UK sales figures.

I think the Psychedelic Furs album that followed Talk Talk Talk was sort of an event to anyone who loved Talk Talk Talk--which I did, more than I'd care to admit today. "Love My Way" was their first American hit. I talked-talked-talked myself into liking the album for a few weeks, quickly moved on. (And was surprised when they were even bigger when the John Hughes film came out.)

Turrican - VS outsold In Utero here though

I think the Psychedelic Furs album that followed Talk Talk Talk was sort of an event to anyone who loved Talk Talk Talk--which I did, more than I'd care to admit today. "Love My Way" was their first American hit. I talked-talked-talked myself into liking the album for a few weeks, quickly moved on. (And was surprised when they were even bigger when the John Hughes film came out.

I still love it -- played it New Year's Eve, actually. Just a notch below TTT.

Also how on earth are so many 90s albums in the list?

― Cosmic Slop

CDs, the collapse of the single, the economy, more accurate calculations of sales/shipments.

It came out September 25, 1982; I think Halloween of that year may have been the last major holiday the Psychedelic Furs and I spent together.

but the single sales ROSE in the UK then. the few years of the britpop era were the best singles sales in the past 20 odd years apparently

Jeff Wayne went 5x Platinum in the UK? Never heard of him....

Turrican - VS outsold In Utero here though

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:53 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It did!?

If "here" means America, yes.

UK too, i had a mate who worked in our price and he showed me the official industry stats.
Possible in the last 20 years it's sold more now of course.

but the single sales ROSE in the UK then. the few years of the britpop era were the best singles sales in the past 20 odd years apparently

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The fact that almost everyone was releasing 2CD versions of their singles no doubt helped!

Lee626 maybe americans were still shitting themselves after this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_%28radio_drama%29

"The War of the Worlds" is an episode of the American radio drama anthology series The Mercury Theatre on the Air. It was performed as a Halloween episode of the series on October 30, 1938, and aired over the Columbia Broadcasting System radio network. Directed and narrated by actor and future filmmaker Orson Welles, the episode was an adaptation of H. G. Wells's novel The War of the Worlds (1898). It became famous for causing mass panic, although the extent of this panic is debated.[4]

UK too, i had a mate who worked in our price and he showed me the official industry stats.
Possible in the last 20 years it's sold more now of course.

― Cosmic Slop, Monday, January 12, 2015 12:08 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's interesting, I always had Nirvana down as a much bigger band in the UK than Pearl Jam ever were.

you would have thought so. After Kurts death and the fact PJ never toured here after their tiny venues tour when ten came out til late 90s didnt help their cause

Yeah, that Jeff Wayne album was incredibly popular here. Even now I still seem to find copies of it nestling in the record collections of people of a certain age. Not too long back I saw a local band play and the bassist kept playing licks from that album in between songs.

when they did tour tix sold so fast i missed out. was raging. (and of course i never saw nirvana as the gig was postponed after his od and rescheduled date never took place..)

turrican there was a big tour of war of the worlds a few years ago then got a dodgy remake

check out who is on it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeff-Waynes-Musical-Version-Worlds/dp/B009CAAGCG/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1421021800&sr=1-2&keywords=war+of+the+worlds

In 2012, an all New Generation of artists guest on a fresh recording of one of the most iconic albums of all time. Originally released in 1978, Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of The Worlds remains an award-winning landmark masterpiece that has continually won new fans. For 2012, Jeff embarked on a new interpretation with guest stars every bit as talented as their illustrious predecessors. He has once again brought HG Wells’ classic novel to life on a new double album.
Two of the modern era's most respected artists, Oscar-nominated actor Liam Neeson and celebrated singer/songwriter/producer and Take That’s main man Gary Barlow play the two key roles of The Journalist and The Sung Thoughts of The Journalist. Gary is the new voice of the singles "The Eve of The War" and "Forever Autumn". A life-long fan of the original album, he was most excited at the chance to appear on the new one. He says: "I've been a huge fan of The War of The Worlds score since I was a kid, so to be asked to work with the legend that is Jeff Wayne was a real privilege."
Thirty-four years on, Liam Neeson inherits his role from Richard Burton, whose voice is an abiding memory for a generation haunted by his album narration. While a hard act to follow, he makes the role his own. Liam says: "I knew and loved the book from when I was a teenager and it was an easy persuasion. And I bought the album in 1979 when I was working in Ireland. I still have that little cassette.”
Ricky, from the Kaiser Chiefs, takes over from David Essex’s classic rendition as The Artilleryman. Ricky commented: “Jeff Wayne’s The War of The Worlds is part of the musical landscape and I have always been a fan. It is daunting to do because people love it so much. I got the email from Jeff Wayne inviting me to be part of it and that is not something you can say ‘No’ to.”
Bringing a fresh sound to the role of Parson Nathaniel is acclaimed new singer Maverick Sabre. Originally performed by Thin Lizzy’s Phil Lynott, Maverick performs with Joss Stone, the stunning choice to play Parson Nathaniel’s wife; their performances on "The Spirit Of Man" are truly mesmerising. Hot new talent, Alex Clare, following his breakout hit "Too Close", takes over as The Voice of Humanity, originally recorded by Chris Thompson.
This is a limited edition hardback digipack format.

Oh yeah, I was aware of the tour (one or two folks I know went to see it), but had no idea about that remake. Gary Barlow? Fuck off, he has no place on this record.

tim tbh I dont think there is any album that fits a new jersey - slippery when wet exactly anyway

― Cosmic Slop, Sunday, January 11, 2015 10:38 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I agree with this - I wasn't saying that the This Is My Truth was a bad choice for the thread, more that you get these variations around the idea which combine a whole bunch of different factors pointing in multiple directions.

If anything what you see with Manics is the effect of a series of interrelated and rebounding New Jersey moments: Everything Must Go came out while Britpop still appeared to be on top, but itself was probably the first post-Britpop / "Britrock" record (see also OK Computer obv), and TIMTTMY was basically MSP cashing in on the momentum generated by this new widescreen seriousness.

It was over-embraced at the outset as much due to the British press's belated reaction to Be Here Now as due to credit that had been generated by Everything Must Go. Which is both ironic and understandable: TIMTTMY and BHN arguably suffer from many of the same flaws but offer alternative models of rock-identity.

So I think it was as much the New Jersey for an entire notion of what British rock was supposed to do post-Britpop as it was for MSP in particular. You can read the floundering of NME-approved rock in 1999-2000 as a sign that while it was now a truth universally acknowledged that Britpop was over, with TIMTTMY the Manics had failed to establish a viable replacement movement to rally around.

Another album I would say partly fits this thread but with a few key caveats is The Chemical Bros' Surrender.

I thought about that one but Come with Us and Push the Button held their own, no?

Surrender was actually the biggest.

Exit Planet Dust and Dig Your Own Hole both went platinum in the UK, Surrender went 2x platinum, then the next three albums only went gold (though all of them hit number 1).

So this is another example (like with the Manics) where I feel like the New Jersey album is one that still pulls in a lot of new fans and objectively looks like the artist's pinnacle, but it's like they've gone off a ski-jump ramp and the ascent necessarily will be followed by a descent.

I wonder if a Wings album counts. Pretty sure a macca album in the 70s would count as an event and after all "Wings were only the band The Beatles could have been"

can't suss out the Coldplay example of this phenomenon but there must be one.

Muse - The Resistance

I hear what you're saying Tim but I don't think either the Manics or the Chems fit the Be Here Now paradigm at all, ie bloated & self-parodic. Be Here Now was deemed a disappontment within months if not weeks and it contains none of Oasis's best-loved songs. If you see the Manics live now, Tolerate and You Stole the Sun From My Heart are still two of their most popular songs. And Know Your Enemy was an act of deliberate self-sabotage, a rejection of success, rather than diminishing returns. Also, TIMT has a strange sense of depression and defeat (cf The Everlasting) rather than hubris.

Coldplay had two - X&Y and Mylo Xyloto, bouncing back inbetween with Viva La Vida.

This Is My Truth was my first Manics album and I really liked it at the time, in a similar way to something like the Bends. Listening to it in more recent years, the songs suffer from being overlong and not really doing very much within their timespans, but as far as the songs are concerned, there are few bad moments. I prefer it to Everything Must Go and I'd put it up with the Holy Bible as my favourite album by them.

Surely 13 is Blur's New Jersey, if not their Be Here Now? A few popular singles, but if Tender wasn't the most tedious, overripe slog of an opening track and lead single... As if it had been intelligently designed to blow up on Jools Holland. By comparison, the rest of the album was fairly experimental, but lazily so (unlike the preceding self-titled album which hit a great balance between acceptance and rejection of their superstatus). It marks the beginning of Albarn's decline as a writer of strong songs and a turn towards the stuff on Gorillaz, Think Tank, TGTBATQ which barring a few exceptions feels like B-side music to me. Sloppy grooves, uninspired vocals, insipid lyrics...

Doesn't this have to mean more than "an album I liked less than the ones before"? The defining quality of New Jersey and Be Here Now is that they're not experimental, lazily or otherwise, but bombastic reiterations and amplifications of a successful formula. I don't think much of 13 but it's not remotely that.

I know Bowie's a different thing in the sense he found a way to retain some degree of relevance but..."Tonight"? Its success can be mostly attributed to the residual goodwill from "Let's dance", and the next record really was the end of an era for him.

The Great Escape is so obviously the relevant Blur album here - the moment when the music fails to match up to the cultural wave it's cresting, and everyone secretly knows it, even though it's sold truckloads. This Is My Truth... counts here as well, as does Surrender (it was the first of many Chems albums that were all basically following the same formula).

If I'd ever bothered to listen to that fifth Dizzee album I might be tempted to lump it in here as well, but that's an even more abrupt commercial crash than most of the records being discussed here.

Oh and obviously "How to dismantle an atomic bomb" was really carried by the success of "All that you can't leave behind" and all those Apple keynotes but couldn't land a worthwile single other than the shitty "Vertigo".

I'm wondering if Escapology also qualifies.

TGE could be a better example MDC. I like the album quite a lot (shades of TIMTTMY, a kind of post-success depression all over it), but even 15 y/o me had the suspicion that Blur were tipping from charming into noxious by this point.

I stand by what I said somewhere in the other thread that Welcome To The Pleasuredome was Frankie Goes To Hollywood's NJ / BHN, albeit predating both of them. Double album, huge expectations, massive media rollout, straight in at #1, yielded a Xmas #1 hit single but everyone knew it just wasn't that great. 6 months later the second-hand shops were drowning in it, and they followed it up with the game-is-upper of Liverpool.

I got it - Catatonia Equally Cursed & Blessed:

1. Followed a 3X platinum crossover success

2. Went to number 1 but only went platinum

3. No big successful singles (some of the album is not bad though if my 16 years old memory serves correct)

4. Next album only went silver.

Also was totally a repeat of the previous album only with shinier production.

The Fat Of The Land?

not quite old enough to remember the reception, maybe Paul Young's The Secret of Association?

Catatonia is a good call and by this token we can maybe have Pulp and Suede too - pretty much exactly the same trajectory for This Is Hardcore and Head Music.

(the legitimate charm of TiH is perhaps that it is so cavernous and hollowed-out and the 'charm' of HM that it is so overworked and shiny and patchy as hell)

"Change" by Sugababes. Came after their second or third successful reinvention, was terribly stagnant, and put them into the fast track to irrelevance.

All this while being pretty successful.

Dead From the Waist Down is my favourite Catatonia single (competition not stiff tbh) but I remember nothing else about that album.

As with the New Jersey thread, I've already lost any sense of what the criteria are. Surrender? Fat of the Land? idgi From upthread: "has less and/or smaller hits than prev album - or - hits based more on momentum than appeal". Wouldn't say that about Firestarter or Hey Boy Hey Girl. And TIMT was so genuinely big that in Jan 2000 the Manics could get a number one single from momentum alone. Crucially, Be Here Now was deemed a dud within six months of release. I think that, rather than the performance of a follow-up album three years later, has to be key.

It doesn't have to be directly analogous to Be Here Now, few bands drop such an outright clunker at the height of their cultural moment, but most big bands have a moment when people are straining a bit to pretend they aren't just past their peak. Surrender is definitely one of those, even if it has its moments, and it definitely precipitated a career decline.

The Fat of the Land is maybe more of a Welcome to the Pleasuredome in that it clearly didn't match up to the colossally high expectations arising from its massive, zeitgeisty singles.

Hmmm... Okay, maybe I don't quite get the criteria.
The reason I proposed FOTL is because of the relatively big time that elapsed between the two lead singles - Firestarter and Breathe - that preceded FOTL, both of which promised so much: a fresh new approach, a bigger sound, a step towards being, commercially, quite a bit more than just a rave/dance act but still retaining the darkness and the aggro of Jilted.
But those singles were released months before the album proper. By the time the album did come out the Prodigy, and especially Keith Flint, had become a sort-of Sex Pistols parody, stripping away all the underlying narcotic evil of their second album in favour of comedy-punk exhibitionism. They courted unnecessary controversy in the media with Smack My Bitch Up. Then there was the ill-advised collaboration with Crispin from Kula Shaker. All in all, it was an album made up of variations on the first two singles.
Didn't stop it selling a shit-ton though, much like Be Here Now, but I don't believe many fans still enjoy this record much beyond those first two singles.

xp

*big time difference between the singles and the album.

(And of course Relax/Two Tribes and Firestarter/Breathe are two of the most larger-than-life pairings of hit singles in this history of British pop.)

xp That's not how I think about those albums at all. You might prefer DYOH to Surrender, as do I, but I didn't have to strain to like the latter. Or indeed most of Fat of the Land. smh at the idea that Smack My Bitch Up controversy was "unnecessary". It was the point.

Here today, tomorrow, next week

Fat of the Land was shit though - totally bouyed up by the lead singles and a massive disappointment when it came out. SMBU was media-baiting pure and simple. Coming from out the rave scene, the Prodigy had never needed to advertise themselves as merchants of shock-value before. This was felt inherently. At their peak, I was way too young to attend a club or rave (despite being the target audience), but Music For A Jilted Generation felt like a genuinely illicit record, dripping with all the disturbing, exciting things I'd heard about drug and dance culture through the news and radio. It didn't need to try and be scary - the choking, spluttering noises on the Narcotic Suite were enough. But FOTL? SMBU? People getting het up about a Kool Keith sample, a deliberately provocative video and a cartoon man with spiky hair.

I think you might be mistaking your opinion for the consensus. The qualities you dislike are the ones that made that record so successful. It left them in a great position with a massive new audience and they only fucked it up by taking too long to follow it up.

I don't really see how this weak-sauce, self-parodic record was that much different to the trajectory signified by Be Here Now, save for two strong lead singles which came out several months before. Be Here Now was bought by, and enjoyed, by countless new fans. Lots of people bought it and convinced themselves it was worthwhile, but which of those three first Prodigy albums has aged the worst? It's got to be FOTL by quite a margin.

Spiceworld?

As for Be Here Now - surely Oasis didn't die a death straight after that record? They were still appearing on the covers of newspapers and magazines on a regular basis for years after IRL. It got glowing reviews at the time and fans loved it too. Likely, this was part of some wide-scale collective enthusiasm for an already huge huge band, but I don't think the nation woke up to its terribleness as quickly as is being made out.

Gonna bluff here and say Travis's 12 Memories. I know fuck all about Travis, but it was shortly after this they got flushed from the collective conscience right?

Re-Make/Re-Model OTM. The Fat Of The Land, regardless of anyone's feelings towards its content, actually left The Prodigy in a better position than they ever had been, with a massive audience very much waiting to see where they would go next. The Prodigy are a bit of an anomaly here, really, because the tipping point for them wasn't any particular album, but a standalone single: 'Baby's Got A Temper'. When that single came out after a long wait post-The Fat Of The Land, I remember quite a lot of people being incredibly disappointed with it (I think Liam Howlett himself has even disowned the track). By the time the next album came out, after yet more waiting, their momentum had vanished.

Incidentally, I listened to The Fat Of The Land recently and enjoyed it a great deal; much more than I ever remember doing at the time.

Gonna bluff here and say Travis's 12 Memories. I know fuck all about Travis, but it was shortly after this they got flushed from the collective conscience right?

― Ottbot jr (NickB)

I think their previous album The Invisible Band would work better for this. The lead single was their biggest hit but none of the other singles are that well remembered. It was a big seller but sold probably half what the previous album did. 12 Memories was the album where no one really cared anymore.

Scissor Sisters' Ta-Dah? Sold loads initially and spawned one giant single and then ran out of steam very quickly.

― technopolis

This is a good example. The hype for that album was crazy and the lead single was indeed huge but I'm sure most people couldn't remember any of the follow up singles. It sold really well at first but sold half what the debut did overall. Similar story with the second Kaiser Chiefs album. Ruby was their biggest hit but none of the other singles stuck. The pattern is so similar even down to their third albums both missing number one and only having one single that made the top 75.

I think their previous album The Invisible Band would work better for this. The lead single was their biggest hit but none of the other singles are that well remembered. It was a big seller but sold probably half what the previous album did. 12 Memories was the album where no one really cared anymore.

― Kitchen Person, Monday, January 12, 2015 4:23 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, The Invisible Band definitely, although I don't know about the singles not being that well remembered, I can certainly recall 'Sing', 'Flowers In The Window' and 'Side' off the top of my head ('Side' probably being the one that won't ring many bells for most people). Travis' problem was that the album that made them "big", The Man Who, wasn't that good to begin with, even if it yielded hits. See also: International Velvet.

Scissor Sisters' Ta-Dah? Sold loads initially and spawned one giant single and then ran out of steam very quickly.

― technopolis

This is a good example. The hype for that album was crazy and the lead single was indeed huge but I'm sure most people couldn't remember any of the follow up singles.

― Kitchen Person, Monday, January 12, 2015 4:28 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I certainly can't!

Also Coldplay turning up and completely stealing their audience while making a much bigger one in the process. When The Man Who came out they were the only band making serious hay out of that sound, fast forward a few years and there were loads of the bastards.

Robbie Williams' Escapology definitely fits here, it sold only slightly less than his previous ones but its right on the precipice between enormous record deal and complete collapse in sales.

I heard Ocean Color Scene they didn't seem that terrible, they were Brit Pop but kinda chuggy 70s vibe right? like 90s equivelent of a band that would open for Humble Pie in the 70s?

So is this a more recent phenomenon then or are we just all too young to remember before the mid 80s?

M@att they were the worst of the worst and they had the worst "real music" fans

this thread is packed full of the worst bands in the world ever both before and after these so-called shark-jumping albums you are all arguing about

what is it about a thread like this that a very large proportion of British music that gets discussed is from approx 1989-2001?

lex, please enlighten us by naming a huge UK act who had their equivalent of a 'Be Here Now'.

I'm surprised the lex considers M People one of the worst bands in the world

No one said the bands had to be any good!

what is it about a thread like this that a very large proportion of British music that gets discussed is from approx 1989-2001?

― this is just a saginaw (dog latin),

our age groups and the fact a lot of shite music got made then that we all heard?

xp "I don't think the nation woke up to its terribleness as quickly as is being made out." I don't know old you are, dog latin, but I assure you they did. Within weeks there were jokes about second-hand shops being deluged with copies and the video for All Around the World was a laughing-stock. You're imagining things if you think it's comparable to Fat of the Land, which found the Prodigy a colossal international audience that wasn't there before. Jilted Generation: double platinum, one silver single. TFOTL: quadruple platinum, two platinum singles and one silver. And that's just the UK. Be Here Now, otoh, sold less than half of What's the Story. I think these albums have disproportionately huge first-week sales and have flatlined by the third single.

Kaiser Chiefs and Scissor Sisters examples OTM.

Am enjoying how trivial the stakes in this argument are, after all the Charlie Hebdo debate.

tho yeah ive mentioned bands i liked so its not just for bands you like/dont like

Be Here Now came out on the thursday, I've never heard it since the saturday, the next week everyone I knew seemed underwhelmed with it.
Princess Diana died and the big ballad single stalled as the verve i think got to #1 with the drugs dont work and momentum just died for be here now.

That is how I remember it.

Yeah, The Invisible Band definitely, although I don't know about the singles not being that well remembered, I can certainly recall 'Sing', 'Flowers In The Window' and 'Side' off the top of my head ('Side' probably being the one that won't ring many bells for most people). Travis' problem was that the album that made them "big", The Man Who, wasn't that good to begin with, even if it yielded hits. See also: International Velvet.

― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican),

I was referring to the follow up singles to Sing really. Think Sing is quite well remembered now. I remember by Side it was a bit of a joke that they'd already had two hits with one word titles that kept getting repeated in the chorus and this was the third attempt. Don't remember anything about Flowers In The Window or any of the singles they did after that really.

As for Scissor Sisters I was there for that second album. Rushed out to buy it the of release and even bought it in a stupid over giant box. I liked it for a few weeks but quickly started skipping more and more songs. Jake has since said he finds most of the album unlistenable. The actual follow up single was called Land of a Thousand Words (Had to look that up) that I remember at the time was just the worst choice they could pick from the album, such a boring song. The third single was She's My Man which was only memorable for being a complete rip off of I'm Still Standing. Shame they lost most of their audience as the third album was great.

if diana hadnt died "stand by me" i think it was could have been another wonderwall.

xp

i still hear sing on the radio occasionally and its still used in tv ads

The "Diana's death killed Britpop" connection is as spurious as suggesting that everything in the charts in 1981 sounded like Ghost Town. Pop doesn't respond to the zeitgeist in such a neat way. Britpop becoming irredeemably shit killed Britpop.

xposts to RM/RM

I'm 34, so I was about 16/17 when Be Here Now and FOTL came out. Maybe we're disagreeing cos we're looking at things from a qualitative vs commercial POV here, but I honestly don't remember interest in Oasis waning at all after Be Here Now, shit album or not. The scales may have fallen from the eyes of a few high-ranking musos at the time, but many reviews were positive and they continued to be a huge saturating force in the UK and abroad even up to about 2000 in my recollection.
I honestly remember the same thing with the Prodigy. Yeah they took ages to release anything after FOTL, but what did appear was cobblers and I don't remember that many people anticipating their return half as much as in the lead up to FOTL. This was based largely on the lameness of that record and the shark-jumping tactics it employed.

not what i said. I said it stalled Be Here Now

xp

xp "many reviews were positive" That is exactly the point. It was the greatest failure of critical judgement in the history of the UK music press. Everyone hailed it as a masterpiece and then felt nauseous with regret, hence the ferocity of the backlash. Even Noel grew to hate it. It's hard to argue with someone else's memory but I was writing about this stuff at the time and I've revisited it in detail since so, er, u r rong.

Whats The Story got bad reviews and the press got it wrong so they overcompensated with Be Here Now (BHN is still better than every Oasis album after but that is not saying much)

has anyone got any older examples of this kind of thing?

i was thinking tears for fears but there was such a long gap between albums so i doubt it counts

Stand By Me was still a massive hit, it was stopped from getting to number one by Elton but The Drugs Don't Work would have done if it had come out a week later. Around the World flew to number one in the new year. Commercially it did just fine at first. It did stop selling after about eight months unlike the first two albums which were still in the charts way after it. It did extremely well critically too. Sure, OK Computer, Ladies & Gentlemen We Are Floating In Space and Urban Hymns did a lot better but it still appeared in just about every list. Not sure exactly when the press started turning on it so much. The first sign I saw of it being slagged off was when Chris Evans did a sketch about it in a hospital on TFI Friday. It was something along the lines of him trying to bring it back to life and ending with "There's nothing we can do to save it" as he help up a copy of the album. Who knew he could be such a trend setter.

It was never going to hang around in the charts so long purely cuz it sold about 2million in the 1st month

True but hadn't Morning Glory sold double that by that point and people were still buying that way after.

Ironic diss from the epitome of late-Britpop malaise

My folks (as a surprise after seeing in advertised in the newspaper) bought me the Be Here Vinyl box for that xmas. Ive never played it. Used to see loads in second hand shops.

They were always going to be a major commercial force because they had a critical mass of fans who would go out and buy every record no matter how shit they became, they just weren't going to go away, but if you think they were the same force pre- and post-Be Here Now then you don't remember quite how culturally ubiquitous they were in 95-96.

Channel four did one of those best albums of all time countdowns in October the following year and Be Here Now made the top 30. The public were on its side at first. I remember the people on the show (Bob Geldof, Paul Gambaccini and Justine Frischmann) were all very disappointed to see it place so high. I think the biggest proof of what they lost with that album is the muted reaction Standing on the Shoulder of Giants got. Can't remember the exact sales but it was so low compared to Be Here Now.

RM/RM I'm not denying what you say about BHN's commerciality necessarily but I don't see how what you say negates FOTL following a similar qualitative path. Both records were hugely anticipated, both turned out to be a lot less exciting than had been anticipated. Neither is particularly fondly remembered by fans, even though either album did little to dent their respective bands' overall popularity for at least a couple of years.

Anyway this is a longer argument than I'd expected so..

Right enough J

Album Of The Millennium

Autumn 1997 Channel 4 and HMV, in association with The Guardian newspaper, joined forces to find out what the British public considers to be the best music of this millennium. Every type of music was eligible: from the Beatles to Beethoven; from country to classical; from pop to hip hop. It was the most ambitious survey ever undertaken.

Sgt Pepper

1. The Beatles - Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band
2. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
3. The Beatles - Revolver
4. Radiohead - The Bends
5. Oasis - What's The Story? (Morning Glory)
6. Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon
7. Radiohead - OK Computer
8. Nirvana - Nevermind
9. Van Morrison - Astral Weeks
10. The Beatles - The White Album
11. Bob Dylan - Blood On The Tracks
12. The Beatles - Abbey Road
13. Miles Davis - A Kind Of Blue
14. Oasis - Definitely Maybe
15. The Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
16. Bob Dylan - Blonde On Blonde
17. Marvin Gaye - What's Going On?
18. R.E.M. - Automatic For The People
19. U2 - The Joshua Tree
20. David Bowie - The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust
21. Massive Attack - Blue Lines
22. Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground And Nico
23. Fleetwood - Mac Rumours
24. The Sex Pistols Never - Mind The Bollocks
25. Prodigy - The Fat Of The Land
26. The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
27. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited
28. Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill
29. Portishead - Dummy
30. Oasis - Be Here Now
31. Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland
32. Primal Scream - Screamadelica
33. Paul Simon - Graceland
34. Pulp - Different Class
35. Joni Mitchell - Blue
36. The Clash - London Calling
37. Simon & Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water
38. The Rolling Stones - Exile On Main Street
39. The Beatles - Rubber Soul
40. Manic Street Preachers - Everything Must Go
41. Captain Beefheart And The Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica
42. Love - Forever Changes
43. David Bowie - Hunky Dory
44. Lou Reed - Transformer
45. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
46. Bruce Springsteen - Born To Run
47. Meatloaf - Bat Out Of Hell
48. Blur - Parklife
49. Pink Floyd - The Wall
50. Joy Division - Closer
51. The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed
52. Stevie Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life
53. U2 - Achtung Baby
54. The Verve - Urban Hymns
55. George Michael - Older
56. The Clash - The Clash
57. Pixies - Doolittle
58. Bob Marley & The Wailers - Legend
59. Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
60. Prodigy - Music For The Jilted Generation
61. The Band - The Band
62. Spice Girls - Spice
63. Leftfield - Leftism
64. Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
65. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV
66. Manic Street Preachers - The Holy Bible
67. Michael Jackson - Thriller
68. Neil Young After - The Gold Rush
69. Queen - A Night At The Opera
70. The Doors - The Doors
71. Carole King - Tapestry
72. Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells
73. Prince - Sign Of The Times
74. Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti
75. Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home
76. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
77. Frank Sinatra - Songs For Swinging Lovers
78. Kate Bush - Hounds Of Love
79. Patti Smith - Horses
80. The Smiths - Hatful Of Hollow
81. John Lennon - Imagine
82. Suede - Dog Man Star
83. Beck - Odelay
84. Ocean Colour Scene - Moseley Shoals
85. The Smiths - The Smiths
86. Jeff Buckley - Grace
87. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II
88. Tricky - Maxinquaye
89. Van Morrison - Moondance
90. John Coltrane - Love Supreme
91. Bjork - Debut
92. Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions….
93. R.E.M. - Out Of Time
94. Television - Marquee Moon
95. Tori Amos - Little Earthquakes
96. Michael Jackson - HIStory
97. DJ Shadow - Endtroducing
98. The Verve - A Northern Soul
99. The Eagles - Hotel California
100. Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road

Worth it for bob geldofs indignation about the stone roses. he thought only albums of his generation were worthy

Goes without saying but good god that list

Only British acts in the top 7. Would that happen today?

Yeah I remember that too. Bob and Paul were so disgusted The Stone Roses could be ahead of any Beatles (Even though they were number one anyway)

Sidestepping competing memories and opinions about musical quality for a minute, isn't it crucially significant that Be Here Now and New Jersey both sold roughly half as much as their predecessors? Ditto the Kaiser Chiefs, Scissor Sisters, Catatonia and Travis albums, whereas the Prodigy or Chems records sold twice as much. Bigger first-week sales but a 40-60% drop-off in the long run seems like as close to an objective working definition as you can get.

i know lots on here hate the roses but i was chuffed one of my fave albums got so high AND annoyed sir bob. Why should the canon stop after the 60s/70s .

Bigger first-week sales but a 40-60% drop-off in the long run seems like as close to an objective working definition as you can get.

good point

right, lets work through these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_of_the_1980s_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_of_the_1970s_in_the_United_Kingdom

http://www.pure80spop.co.uk/bestsellersalbums.htm

http://www.popjustice.com/forum/threads/25287-Top-100-Best-Selling-Albums-Of-The-80s

must be a level 42 album thats appropriate

Think I mentioned this on the og New Jersey thread, but surely Favourite Worst Nightmare by Arctic Monkeys fits here?

But their last album was a comeback in every market, especially here.

is there a Genesis album that would fit?

But their last album was a comeback in every market, especially here.

Oh sure, not disputing that.

Not sure. Their last Collins album was We Can't Dance which was a huge hit. And with "Calling all stations", it's almost like it's a different band.

xpost genesis

We Can't Dance made the last New Jersey thread.

it def qualifies

we also put but seriously on the poll and man i gotta give it up for someone who plausibly released two new jerseys back to back

i mean talk about proof of omnipresence

i was going to say '13' by blur but i see i was beaten to it. i think Matt DC's suggestion of 'the great escape' kinda fits in a way, but it's more like the 'rattle and hum', in which the blur self-titled album is their 'achtung baby.'

if we're talking britpop, i might suggest supergrass 'in it for the money', which was more successful than the first album but i think it almost felt like they'd exhausted a lot of their energy already and the excitement was gone. like i think part of a NJ is that feeling that as happy or content you are to own the album in question, or at least you don't regret it, you as a fan no longer have a vested interest in getting the followup.

*speaking of U2, i'm a fan and i think in a sense 'how to dismantle an atomic' bomb fits here (also already mentioned!) funny thing is it seems to me obviously U2's weakest album, but also obviously that they thought they were being a bit experimental when it comes off as by-the-numbers. some of those songs are pretty great live, though, and vertigo is the better of their two 'highly compressed guitar hero singles' ('get on your boots' being the other.)

'no line on the horizon' is better than HTDAAB and 'songs of innocence' would probably be more highly regarded if it wasn't for the way it was delivered, which was something akin to how foie gras is made. i dunno, i like both their last two.

From the og thread:

so instead of studying for a test i'm trying to come up with TIERS
the New Jersey: a huge event album that's massive by all reasonable standards but is shadowed by the album(s) that ironically are the only reason it was massive, since it was pretty damn shallow on its own merits (i.e. New Jersey, Spellbound, For Those About To Rock, Spirits Having Flown, Afterburner, Fore!, Be Here Now in the UK)

the Fairweather Johnson: a huge event album that still sells better than it should've thanks to the band's previous success, but one could almost immediately sense fortunes going considerably southward even if one was a fan (i.e. Fairweather Johnson, Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie, Nine Lives, Be Here Now in the US)

― da croupier, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 23:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

Prepared to be shouted down on this one, but by this criteria is Pulp - This Is Hardcore sort of a UK Fairweather Johnson?

Replace 'still sells better than it should've' with 'still sells better than it might have otherwise', perhaps.

I let This Is Hardcore off the hook because it's a self-loathing rejection of pop success rather than a craven attempt to hold onto it. It was less Different Class Part 2 than Fuck Different Class, Fuck All of You.

it did come across more of an in utero self sabotage tbf

pulp was even higher profile with promotion etc in the us with this is hardcore, between that, singles like "party hard" (and in the us, "like a friend") and the fact that they submitted a fuckin bond theme i find the idea they were rejecting success kind of dubious

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

"if it wasn't for the way it was delivered, which was something akin to how foie gras is made."

I appreciate this line v much

dog latin there's a new prodigy track

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

Christmas single in between the two albums was a big hit, but the second album went silver to the debut's 4x platinum.

did the 2nd Darkness album have a big single/#1 album placing or was it just an almighty flop?

― Cosmic Slop, Monday, January 12, 2015 6:53 PM (4 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It did really startlingly poor business right off the bat. In at number 11 with a bullet. Two singles scraped the top 10 but left no trace. Only two years earlier they were inescapable.

I do recall being surprised at the time that This Is Hardcore got to number 1; despite the massiveness of Different Class (and the fact that TiH is pretty great) it didn't seem like a given at all. But it sold around 50,000 in the first week? which was not to be sniffed at, in early 98.

2nd Darkness more analogous to 2nd Duffy - confident late-November release for the follow up to the hugest thing imaginable; zero impact; no way back.

(Adele was playing catch up to Duffy for all of 2008 but her timing was rather better 2nd time around)

I forgot all about Duffy

I know that Be Here Now is often held up as being the album that "killed Britpop", and in some ways I agree with this thinking. In hindsight, it's fucking insane how much was expected of that album for a whole lot of people, and it's easy to forget how much was expected of that album at the time. Thinking about it now, from a 2015 perspective, there was absolutely no way that Oasis could possibly have delivered what Be Here Now was supposed to be in the minds of many, and when people heard it back then and were disappointed by it, I think there was this sense of people trying to convince themselves that it was a good record. Goodness knows why. Possibly they thought that Be Here Now was meant to be the Britpop record to end all records and they were gutted that's not what they got.

On the other hand, it's tempting to say that the death of Britpop actually began with not just the Oasis vs. Blur chart war, but the Oasis vs. Blur thing in general. While on one hand, the media attention from this created a huge surge in popularity, it was also a change from Britpop as musical statement (as Blur intended it to be on Modern Life Is Rubbish), to Britpop as a "cultural moment". Record companies started capitalising on the surge in popularity by signing a whole slew of bands, a lot of which weren't actually very good. The popularity of Oasis led to the popularity of retro-rock (dubbed by the NME as Noelrock) in general. Britpop stopped being about albums like Suede and Modern Life Is Rubbish and became more about (What's The Story) Morning Glory? and Moseley Shoals and "mad fer it" and "let's have it" and all that stuff.

So what happened as a result of all of that is that the likes of Blur moved on while retaining an audience, yet the retro-rockers (Oasis, Ocean Colour Scene etc.) stayed the same to diminishing returns, and people eventually got bored shitless and moved on.

HOWEVER!

I do seem to recall post-Be Here Now that there was this sense of "okay, what now? Oasis have blown it, who is going to be the next Oasis-level success?" in the press. The press latched onto the Manic Street Preachers (great things were expected from This Is My Truth Tell Me Yours), The Verve (Urban Hymns) and Radiohead (OK Computer). Of course, the Manics delivered their worst record to date, so it wasn't going to be them. The Verve split up, so it wasn't going to be them either. Radiohead had released what many were already deeming to be an absolute classic with OK Computer, so things started to go down that route: first Travis, then Coldplay and Muse.

In hindsight, Kid A could have easily been a Be Here Now if they'd chosen to just re-do OK Computer but bigger, but instead of going the Be Here Now route they went the Blur route and played the "get out" card.

if we're talking britpop, i might suggest supergrass 'in it for the money', which was more successful than the first album but i think it almost felt like they'd exhausted a lot of their energy already and the excitement was gone. like i think part of a NJ is that feeling that as happy or content you are to own the album in question, or at least you don't regret it, you as a fan no longer have a vested interest in getting the followup.

― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Monday, January 12, 2015 5:59 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I totally disagree. I considered In It For The Money their best record in 1997 and still consider it to be one of their two strongest records. It made me more excited for a follow-up than I Should Coco did. I continued to buy Supergrass albums up until they split, but if there is any record of theirs that I could point to and say "yeah, that's the turning point", then it's the self-titled record. 'Pumping On Your Stereo' and 'Moving' were the hits, but after that record they were definitely playing for the fanbase.

xp otm until "absolute classic" obv, best just to say be here now killed it and leave Radiohead out of britpop discussion- theyd exited the conversation at that stage anyway

pulp was even higher profile with promotion etc in the us with this is hardcore, between that, singles like "party hard" (and in the us, "like a friend") and the fact that they submitted a fuckin bond theme i find the idea they were rejecting success kind of dubious

― da croupier, Monday, January 12, 2015 6:52 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's from a US perspective, though. From a UK perspective, the single choices from This Is Hardcore were almost like an extremely sobering slap to the face for anyone who had ever got caught up in the "spirit" of the Britpop times of '95-'96. I mean, they came back from Different Class with 'Help The Aged', of all things! Not to mention they then followed it up with the very uncommercial title track, and then 'A Little Soul' after that. 'Disco 2000' and 'Common People' these tracks certainly weren't.

As for 'Party Hard', which was the final single, the entire lyric was the complete opposite to the "I'm feeling supersonic/give me gin and tonic" let's-be-havin'-it spirit that Britpop developed into at its commercial peak. I love the track, but it did very explicitly spell out that as far as Pulp were concerned, the party was over... and in '98, for those still clinging onto the idea that the spirit of the times of '95-'96 could be replicated, that eventually the right band were going to come along and it was all going to blow up again like it did in the mid '90s, that was the very last thing they wanted to hear.

I remember '98 being a really strange year... Britpop was obviously dying on its arse post-Be Here Now, but there was still this sense that people were trying to resuscitate it any way they possibly could, because they wanted the moment to last just that little bit longer. I can think of no other explanation for the likes of Embrace and Catatonia.

won't hear a word against In It For The Money i'm sorry, an ILX fave iirc.

I get that This

(Whoops, phone)

I get that this is hardcore was against the grain, and not pandering to britpop, but I don't see that as a rejection of "success" - they were still doing big shows, big videos, prospective bond themes. If anything THEY got rejected. No one says ok computer rejected success because it was successful but that too was a step from britpop

Radiohead were never really a Britpop band, though. Even though they were around at the same time, played guitars, were British, and (some) people who also bought Suede/Blur/Oasis etc. records also bought Radiohead records. Because they were around at the same time, and The Bends was a successful record, it was very easy for some to lump Radiohead in with the Britpop thing. In actual fact, they weren't really part of it: they did not write about British life in the same way that Suede, Blur or Pulp did, and nor were they part of the "mad fer it"/"let's be havin' it" Noelrock side of things. They seemed very much apart from it all, like the Manic Street Preachers did circa The Holy Bible. I personally saw Radiohead as being more in keeping with R.E.M. than Suede, Blur or Pulp, and I remember Thom Yorke being extremely scathing of Oasis in the mid '90s circa The Bends, actually. Pulp, on the other hand, were very much considered a Britpop band, and therefore the expectations people had for those two bands were different. That's not to say that Radiohead weren't accused of "rejecting success", though, because they were, except with Kid A rather than OK Computer.

So many bands were "Not Britpop" in retrospect, but were at the time.. St Etienne, Auteurs, Radiohead and so on, Punk was like that too, look back to UK Subs, Sham 69 and so on, whereas what you don't get from looking back is a sense of what the future might hold.

I didn't have St. Etienne down as a Britpop band at the time, either. I definitely had Super Furry Animals down as a Britpop band, even though they detested the term, but they were allowed to quietly develop and grow into their own skin because the weight of expectation placed on them to deliver commercial successes was next to nothing compared to Blur and Oasis. As much as I used to love that band back in the '90s, if you'd told me around the time of Fuzzy Logic that they'd end up releasing 9 albums and become one of the more acclaimed bands of the era, I would have laughed my tits off.

Dunno, I'd have placed a bet on them, maybe for the very reasons you say.

e.g. When punk first happened, there was such a shortage of bands that a lot of the pub rock groups got included (Dr Feelgood, Sean Tyla, Roogalator) most of which looks daft even 6 months later.

I remember '98 being a really strange year... Britpop was obviously dying on its arse post-Be Here Now, but there was still this sense that people were trying to resuscitate it any way they possibly could, because they wanted the moment to last just that little bit longer. I can think of no other explanation for the likes of Embrace and Catatonia.

Yeah I remember this, even starting as early as '96 with bands like Space, Kula Shaker and stuff. '98 really did feel like a nadir for all that though. Britpop grows up and buys a car. But coverage was starting to move in a slightly different direction IIRC.
I remember an article in Select in '98, coming off the back of 'Hello Nasty', no doubt (which felt like a very significant release for me and my friends at that point), about how the eighties were due for a come-back. As a teenager who'd rejected the majority of 80s music until then, the concept of reviving styles and fashion from that decade felt very alien to me. A Q poll of the 100 best albums ever only featured a tiny clutch of albums from the eighties, which goes to show how much the 90s had felt like a rejection of that decade.
Somehow though, being sold the eighties as a revival of graffiti and old school hip-hop culture seemed enough though. And then a few years later of course, the world rediscovered electro and post-punk and it was like the eighties had never gone away.
But this all made for a general shift away from UK guitar music as a going concern for quite a while. Select closed down and the NME lost customers. Teen-oriented Britpop begat adult-oriented Travis/Coldplay/Texas. Pitchfork became the go-to place for alternative music news. Electroclash, garage and mashup culture opened up the realms of dance music for a lot of former indiekids. As for indie-rock, the US Amerindie scene seemed a lot more inspired and leftfield in the 2000s than much of the UK landfill set. Overall, there was a noticeable shift in interest away from Manchester and London, over to Europe and the US.
The rise and fall of Britpop is something I don't think UK music has ever really recovered from, even with the mid-2000s Arctic Monkeys/Libertines axis, it wasn't really enough to make something significant out of. Britpop was, as is well-documented, a shallow media-led construct with a torrent of terrible bands involved. While I'm happy that it gave us Modern Life Is Rubbish, Wake Up! and Different Class, there's not a lot to mourn about this scene. I do kind of miss feeling that the UK is a significant 'world-power' when it comes to music though (he says while ignoring the huge swathes of dance music influencing global dancefloors).
Just looking at my EOY albums list and I'm surprised to find there are as much as 7 UK acts out of 25 on my list - one of whom is based in Berlin, another a comeback from the 90s. I have a feeling that at one point the UK would have dominated my list though.

Once the media channels opened up, the Americas came in and took over, thanks to having all the money to start with.

Oasis hit the top, and when they got there they kicked back with a bottle of champagne and went Wahayyy. Whereas when Coldplay and U2 hit the top, they kept working as much as they had before. What Holly Johnson called the Shooting Stars principle.

away from britpop : how about goldie and his "saturnz return" release ?

big hopes after the success of the debut, dashed by a fucking dreadful hour long dirge that opens the sonic marathon.

seems to have killed his solo career dead (other than compilations/mixes/tv etc .. ).

I'd forgotten just how big The Verve were during that 97/98 peak - Urban Hymns the 17th best-selling album of all time in the UK.

The gig that was televised on prime time saturday night BBC1

Turrican otm re: In It For The Money. I thought I Should Coco was tremendous (especially the drumming), and IIFTM almost as good, with a similar nearly-off-the-rails band dynamic happening. But after that, every Supergrass record I heard was markedly blander than the previous one. Coincidentally or not, the drumming suddenly lost the character that had thrillingly propelled their early records.

Loved I Should Coco but never heard any other SG albums until, strangely, Road to Rouen which was... okay I guess. I do have a huge soft spot for the singles on the s/t album though and things like Moving and Pumping On Your Stereo are songs as big as any by Supergrass in my mind.

away from britpop : how about goldie and his "saturnz return" release ?

big hopes after the success of the debut, dashed by a fucking dreadful hour long dirge that opens the sonic marathon.

doesn't sound like an album that sold as much as its predecessor but in retrospect looked like diminishing returns

there must be some 70s and 80s candidates!

Seven and the Ragged Tiger?

that was one I was thinking of I must admit

Carole Kings follow up to "Tapestry" (10XPlatinum), "Music" (1XPlat)

Saturnz Return is rubbish but in an admirable way - a demented, self-important, coke-inflamed Major Statement that nobody asked for. I seem to remember Marcello believing it was a misunderstood masterpiece. It fell off a cliff though and he never made another studio album so it's a Neither Fish Nor Flesh rather than a Be Here Now.

I remember an article in Select in '98, coming off the back of 'Hello Nasty', no doubt (which felt like a very significant release for me and my friends at that point), about how the eighties were due for a come-back. As a teenager who'd rejected the majority of 80s music until then, the concept of reviving styles and fashion from that decade felt very alien to me. A Q poll of the 100 best albums ever only featured a tiny clutch of albums from the eighties, which goes to show how much the 90s had felt like a rejection of that decade.

Yeah! It's easy to forget in this day and age where music from the '80s is being embraced without prejudice, but in the '90s there was nothing less cool than the '80s. Bands were quite content to look back at the '60s and '70s, but if I recall, the '80s always seemed to be written off as a huge mistake. There were exceptions of course, but the bands from the '80s getting praised in the '90s were naturally the ones that seemed to have a direct influence on '90s indie music: The Smiths, The Stone Roses etc. Synthpop? Forget it. Totally uncool.

When is Ed Sheerans turn gonna come?

http://www.nme.com/news/noel-gallagher/82202

i think i was maybe thinking of the supergrass s/t instead of IIFTM? idk. nothing quite ever lived up to 'i should coco' either way.

If anything the bombast of the 80s, esp mid to late of Live Aid and career resurgences of 40 something acts seemed like the most alien thing ever by about 1997. Anything cool from the 80s in 97 had to start small, not get much bigger, and dominated by distorted or jangly guitars - and definitely not processed

Was thinking about that odd stretch when The Beautiful South sold millions upon millions of their greatest hits. Looked at its numbers, surprised to see it was actually number 2 biggest of its year (1994). Number 1 = Cross Road, Bon Jovi.

Synth pop, 80s in 90s - ummmm I am sure we were all 'there' but this sounds like a v iffy generalisation - there was a brand of synthpop that even corny indie fux0rs (eg me) always accepted - soft cell, human league.

nothing quite ever lived up to 'i should coco' either way.

― LIKE If you are against racism (omar little), Tuesday, January 13, 2015 5:51 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again, I disagree.

Dunno man, this is possibly a generational thing but the eighties signified to us (16 y/o, grungey britpop kids) little more than ridiculous shoulder pads, far too much make up, mullets, slap bass, fretless bass, Stock Aitken and Waterman, and not much else. The Human League were doing 'One Man In My Heart'. And really you didn't really hear all that much about the Smiths (but certainly the Roses) when reading the mainstream indie press. The only eighties music I remember kids at school being into was stuff like Metallica. Other than that the 80s were largely considered as a bit of a joke - the decade fashion forgot etc... I think a lot of bands may have played a part in that - Nirvana's nihilism and rejection of excess/flamboyance, Oasis's Beatles and mod worship etc...
Blur had a couple of secret new wave excursions but it was only in retrospect that I became aware of them as such. And then there was talk of a few bands channelling this really obscure act called Wire who no one's ever heard.
what I'm saying is that it's incredible how the bulk of what the eighties really were about was kept under wraps to those who didn't know any better. I remember falling in love with a seventies King Crimson album and then hearing one of their 80s records and remarking about how much the latter one had aged compared to the 70s one. These days I think I would feel the opposite.

That was x post to woof

adult-oriented Travis/Coldplay/Texas

o rly

Dog latin's thesis there is kind of impaired by the fact that Texas's own New Jersey (i.e. The Hush) was actually released 2 weeks before The Man Who.

At the time that Texas were conquering the world in 1997, Travis were releasing songs with titles like "All I Want To Do Is Rock", "U16 Girls", "I Love You Anyways" and (lol) "Tied to the 90s".

So not really adult-oriented.

It fell off a cliff though and he never made another studio album so it's a Neither Fish Nor Flesh rather than a Be Here Now.

TTD kept making albums (and still is, tbf) - the next one went top ten both here and in the UK

it's true that the BritPop mob preferred the 60s and 70s, although there were a few 80s albums/artists that were faves of Britpop bands. Kate Bush (Suede mentioned her every chance they got), New Order, Prince, Smiths, Stone Roses, Mary Chain maybe.. but yeah the 80s pop canon barely got a look in.

Yeah Travis's first album was very different from their commercial peak.

was it any good though?I would think not.

i never knew before today that stereophonics had FIVE number one albums on the trot. i'm not sure i could even name five stereophonics songs tbh

xpost no it was really bad IIRC, save for one Lennon-esque song that seemed to pre-empt their later ballady work.

(xp to dog latin's previous)
ah right - I'm 7-odd years older than you, which makes the difference - more or clearer experience of the decade, more solid memories.

yeah it's that - i'm sure if you were there at the time you'd remember the eighties as they were. for us '90s kids it did feel like pop-culture's sinkhole

i quite liked all i wanna do is rock at the time but hated everything else with a passion so never actually heard the album

xp

wow 5? I didnt know that either. How did they get so big?

I grew up in the 80s and hated it im like that guy in the clickhole article who preferred the 90s lol

If the music of ten years previously ISN'T hugely unfashionable and lame to the kids then something's gone wrong somewhere along the line. Even after over a decade of 80s revival it still feels like the albums of the 80s are under-canonized relative to the 60s, 70s and 90s. But then the late 80s is also viewed as one of the most explosively creative periods ever in pop, so six of one...

If we're talking 80s albums though then both the Human League's Hysteria and Kate Bush's The Sensual World both feel like they qualify.

I still find I have a huge knowledge gap of music from circa 86-90 compared to other areas and I attribute this deficit in many ways to what I said upthread. Late 80s production and style makes me very wary on the whole. In my mind I see it as a transitional no man's land between 'old music I enjoy' and 'music from my time that I enjoy'

There's a few years at the end of the nineties that I kinda feel the same about. All nu-metal and plastic-pop, until The Strokes came and saved the day. Even though I don't really like The Strokes anymore, hard to get beyond that thinking.

i know i'm biased cos i was of a certain age during the period, but 86-89 is golden years stuff for me.

I hated it compared to 80-85

UK-specific 80s hugeness: maybe Erasure? but they BeHereNow-ed in the 90s, so, not really.

could make a case for Chorus (anticipated follow-up to two colossal number 1 albums; massive right from the outset but 'only' went 1x platinum),

except they followed this with Abbaesque and the Pop! singles collection which represent their single/album commercial pinnacles,

so it's probably I Say I Say I Say - Always was luxurious and this return treated as A Big Deal at the time but it didn't quite go all the way; album topped the charts but did not linger and now the casual fans were all buying Parklife instead. 18 months later they returned again and didn't have any casual fans left.

I'm the same about 98-00 Frederik. That's an indefinable inter-period in my mind where things were breaking down but not really building up. I found solace in older records, IDM and post-rock but I just couldn't get behind any popular styles (nu-metal, Ibiza trance, fratboy hip-hop, ska-punk, post-Britpop, 'cheese' i.e. Steps, S Club 7 (do university campuses still have 'cheesy tunes' nights? it's all i remember being advertised at our SU), chillout music etc) I'm sure there must have been some great music that I totally slept on, but I just remember being appalled by the vast majority of what was happening at the time. To me it all seemed so vapid and egregious. Being young suddenly seemed to be about shiny shirts and hairgel, expensive drinks, expensive superclubs with overpaid DJs, snotty brats telling their moms to fuck off, getting wrecked in Ibiza etc.. None of it made sense to me, politically, socially... I never got into the Strokes or the Hives or the Libertines either but still see 2001 as a good pivotal year for new music of all kinds.

When we're talking about 'Be Here Nows', are we actually framing these in terms of commercial success? I'm confused. So many artists' worst music happens to be their most successful.

Would the Boo Radleys' 'Wake Up!' count? It was the album that followed the indie smash 'Giant Steps' which broke them into top ten territory with a huge single that got played ad nauseum on breakfast radio. I like the record, but it comes nowhere close in terms of vision and ambition as GS and it kind of spoilt the band. They released two more albums but on the back of Wake Up Boo, they started being labelled as cheery one-hit wonders and commercially never recovered.

ah, remember when "Wake up boo" got played as much as "Bang bang into the room" does now?

If we're talking 80s albums though then both the Human League's Hysteria and Kate Bush's The Sensual World both feel like they qualify.

I've been looking up the career trajectories of some of the other new pop-era types. Maybe Simple Minds' Good News From the Next World fits the bill - first single went top 10 but only one other charted, a gold album following a run five platinum/multi-platinum ones (although the previous couple had both sold less than the one before).

xposts as far as 2014 is concerned, and looking at this year's P&J list, I'm worried about entering another musical 'depression' right now. After at least two amazing years of music, I couldn't help but feel like 2014 was a bit of a hump. I didn't have any trouble compiling an EOY list, but I'm feeling a noticeable qualitative dip, or a bit of an exhaustion of 'new ideas' compared to what i was hearing in 2012/2013. On a more positive slant, this most likely means that new exciting things are round the corner.

I just remembered Finley Quaye's 'Vanguard' exists, though I think that's the 2nd Darkness album bag of flops

Placebo's 'Without You I'm Nothing'?

All nu-metal and plastic-pop, until The Strokes came and saved the day. Even though I don't really like The Strokes anymore, hard to get beyond that thinking.

wait so you still buy this PR?

I tend to think that if I didn't like music one given year that it's my fault for pursuing certain sounds and genres past diminishing returns; it's a signal to try something else, not a sign of general decline (of which there's no such thing).

this thread really is a repository for some of the worst and most senile opinions to marinate in misremembered nostalgia

yeah I'm a bit appalled by what I've read in excerpts

uk-hours ilx is p much just 90s reminiscences at this point, i barely come on til the americans have woken up

All nu-metal and plastic-pop, until The Strokes came and saved the day. Even though I don't really like The Strokes anymore, hard to get beyond that thinking.

wait so you still buy this PR?

― guess that bundt gettin eaten (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), 14. januar 2015 15:52 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

2001 is the year I turned 15. We're talking the difference between buying PR and not knowing PR existed. I KNOW that it isn't true, but everything before Strokes - or Kid A, or stuff like that - still feel alien and old.

Alfred, I do agree here - you make what you will of what there is - but in most cases, I've found myself generally repulsed or disappointed by the overall arena - not just what I'm listening to privately, but what I hear when I get out and about or look at critical / fan favourites of the time.
In the case of '98-00 I was young enough to figure I just wasn't the kind of person who liked what other people liked, and retreated into older and more leftfield music, but by 2001 I found my interest in the mainstream revived by stuff like electroclash and certain other strains of music which weren't really big features on the landscape a couple of years beforehand.
Same with 2014 - my mission to find great new music hasn't subsided - if anything it's only increased - but I'm not as inspired by critical or popular consensus as I was just 12 months ago. And yeah, that could just be me, or it could also be down to trends, opinion, where the money is going in the industry, who and what is being touted, technological factors, socio-political factors, what came before, what is to come...

Like, you're discussing Fat of the Land, and that's archaic, that's soooo old. I used to laugh at kids who listened to Prodigy, when all that electroclash and dancepunk happened. And there's a five year difference. I still love music from five years ago now, but back then, it was the difference between mattering and being worthless. And having felt that for a long time, even though I know it's not true, I still know comparatively little about that period, and I still have invested less in it.

uk-hours ilx is p much just 90s reminiscences at this point, i barely come on til the americans have woken up

― lex pretend, Wednesday, January 14, 2015 3:01 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a big part of this thread is discussing exactly why this is.

also, i mean, why do you bother posting on a thread called 'EVERY HUGE ARTIST HAS A BE HERE NOW' if you know you're gonna hate it before clicking?

Anyway, Alfred, I am ready to accept that human lifecycles most probably swing from enthusiasm to cynicism quite naturally and that all my VERY PERSONAL examples are testament to where my headspace is at at whatever time. Still think that save for a few examples (I agree wholeheartedly with the number one single and album) that the P&J list is comparatively lacklustre.

For what it's worth, I was listening to plenty '80s music in the '90s (courtesy of my dad's record collection), but there was no way at the time that I'd admit to it.

Placebo's 'Without You I'm Nothing'?

― PaulTMA, Wednesday, January 14, 2015 2:51 PM (44 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Black Market Music probably fits the bill more than Without You I'm Nothing, I reckon.

Is Between The Gutter and The Stars another one was was a UK New Jersey and a US Fairweather Johnson?

i never knew before today that stereophonics had FIVE number one albums on the trot. i'm not sure i could even name five stereophonics songs tbh

― Ottbot jr (NickB), Wednesday, January 14, 2015 12:59 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow 5? I didnt know that either. How did they get so big?

― Cosmic Slop, Wednesday, January 14, 2015 1:16 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

At first I think people were taken by the more "storytelling" aspects of Word Gets Around, but by the time Performance and Cocktails had come out a lot of Britpop's first wave had either moved on, split up, or released their worst album to date, so people were (I guess) looking for another band to latch onto. I think Stereophonics actually nicked a lot of the casual Oasis fans.

As for their post-Performance and Cocktails "success", christ knows. I'm sure 'Dakota' brought in one or two fans and added a few more years to the life of the band, but...

this was their fifth number one album - i'm sure i'd remember such an atrocious cover but i have no recollection of it at all:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41HpaP6sfrL.jpg

goes without saying but the stereophonics were the epitome of late 90s shit UK music.

Critical response
Professional ratings
Aggregate scores
Source Rating
Metacritic 46/100[18]
Review scores
Source Rating
Allmusic 2.5/5 stars [19]
BBC (unfavourable}[11]
Drowned in Sound (4/10)[10]
The Guardian 2/5 stars[20]
Hot Press 1.5/5 stars[21]
The Independent 2/5 stars[22]
NME (7/10) [23]
The Observer (unfavourable)[24]
Pitchfork Media (3.4/10) [9]
The Skinny 2/5 stars[25]

Pull the Pin received generally mixed to negative reviews. At Metacritic, which assigns a normalized rating out of 100 to reviews from mainstream critics, the album has received an average score of 46, based on 12 reviews.[18] Contrasting with the negative reviews however, NME - who have been critical of the band's past albums - contributor Paul McNamee praised the album, stating it lives up as a successor album to Language. Sex. Violence. Other? and summarised it as "an unapologetic rock’n’roll record by a band who are hard to like but impossible to ignore."[23]

In the negative, Sonja D'Cruze from the BBC summarised the album as having "no real depth, imagination or anything to connect with."[11] Dorian Lynskey of The Guardian criticised the album, saying "the only things worse than Kelly Jones's aggrieved bellow and flatpack songwriting are his lyrics" and compared them to someone "performing brain surgery in boxing gloves: the patient always dies."[20]

Yeah, the thing is, not everything the Stereophonics did was awful, they'd pull out a good one to give people hope every so often. I used to cry Help me! I like the new Stereophonics single! but in retrospect, I'm not that bothered about that paperback book song anymore.

The point of this thread is really not 'reminisce about shit landfill bands pt. 245' or 'bang on about when you were feeling alienated from music'... like the 'Be Here Now'/'New Jersey' thing really should not be this difficult to grasp.

Still not sure why the original New Jersey thread needed a British spin-off though.

ah, remember when "Wake up boo" got played as much as "Bang bang into the room" does now?

― Mark G, Wednesday, 14 January 2015 14:13 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was true, but I was not reallly being nostalgic, yeah?

This thread is dreadful.

Still not sure why the original New Jersey thread needed a British spin-off though.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, January 14, 2015 4:11 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

For derails?

this was their fifth number one album - i'm sure i'd remember such an atrocious cover but i have no recollection of it at all

I remember the sleeve, but I couldn't tell you what's on it!

that album cover screams 'terrible flop'

Not familiar with Bon Jovi's back catalogue, but I'd understood 'New Jersey' to mean 'The big hyped album that sold really well but which you could tell just by listening to it that it was the beginning of the end'. Still kind of unclear how this applies to Be Here Now and not Fat Of The Land, but I don't want to harp on about it any more.

because da croupier made a suggestion that he would like to see one and i ran with it matt dc

Fatboy Slim with Palookaville? Or was it the album before?

thread is dead but: I only ever lived in the UK for a couple of years, but got the impression that the album as thing was just always significantly less important to Brit musical culture in general--like, in the US, you have AOR; in the UK, whenever I looked at the album charts some complication "Now That's Wot I Call Meat & Two Veg!" was always at #1......it just seemed like it was more of a pop culture, and therefore more about singles than LPs. Am I completely off base?

for "complication", read "compilation"

Radio has always bee singles chart orientated.
In the 80s, because of compilation albums topping the album charts , they gave them their own compilations chart and were, quite rightly, ineligible for the album chart.

Wonder if there's a Queen album that fits? Turrican?

Hot Space.

obv.

Yeah, I'd say Hot Space too.

was it an event album that sold shitloads at the time?

The opposite of that.

Then it doesn't fit.

Queen recovered just fine after Hot Space anyway. Except for in the US, where the damage was done during The Works campaign

What about James' 'Millionaires'? I have no idea how well it sold, but it came out on the back of their hugely successful greatest hits and was supposed to be the album that propelled them to superstardom, or something. I actually don't think I've heard a note of it, though it seems like it was ultimately the beginning of the end for them.

'albums that came after a greatest hits' is a whole weird make/break kettle of fish though, right?

yeah , tho the huge selling beautiful south greatest hits surprised everybody

I've been wondering what Simple Minds album would fit this. I'd say Street Fighting Years - seemed to be them at their height in the UK, but the exact point where they became despicable in the eyes of everyone who didn't buy it. The album is so overblown and borderline worthless as well.

that's probably the correct choice but 'once upon a time' was definitely a major dry heave before they coughed their guts up

Street Fighting Years is a good one.

yeah on the back of their only UK #1 Belfast Child wasn't it? Definitely a big anticipated album by everyone my age bar me at my school.

It's like a really sanctimonious proto-Be Here Now - the three times I forced myself to listen to it, I was reminded of This Is My Truth as well. No fun.

You never see pro-Street Fighting Years pieces, eh?

http://nobilliards.blogspot.com/2015/07/simple-minds-street-fighting-years.html

heh it seems i ask that question a lot about bon jovi