School me on SONOS and other home streaming systems

I can't find a specific thread about this other than some discussion buried in the Spotify thread. Most of my home listening nowadays is through to streaming audio (either digital files or Spotify) straight from my laptop to my living room stereo via an Airport Express. This is fine sound quality-wise but patchy in terms of reliability, and having to open up my laptop whenever I play music is a pain in the arse. I want to upgrade to something better, seemingly bewildering array of options out there, so help me ILM. Criteria are:

- I have an excellent separates system and really good speakers in my front room, I do want or not need something that comes with its own speakers.
- It might be a decent option for other rooms in the future though, so the option to add speakers later would be nice.
- Without wanting to be a tossy audiophile about it, sound quality is important, but without having to resort to a two grand Linn streamer. Good enough is good enough.
- I don't currently have a server and I don't really want to keep a computer on 24/7. The ability to just plug an external hard drive into the back of it would be ideal.
- Ability to stream Spotify in high quality is essential
- So is internet radio (primarily BBC)
- Ability to control via an Android phone would be nice

Does anything actually exist that fits the bill here?

The Marantz M-CR611 is the one I crave. It does everything you want, I think. as soon as I have the money...

Another not-inconsiderable concern is how long developers will continue to support the hardware, so I'd rather not drop a bomb on it unless it's relatively future-proof.

I like Sonos pretty well, sounds good, was relatively cheap, mostly works fine. But I don't like my internet connection so much. Mostly it all works fine but occasionally bad internet connection makes me wonder wtf was wrong with a stereo and physical product.

I went with Sonos (after also using Airport/Airplay for years) and am totally in love with it. The only downside to it for my purposes is the expense — the unit you would need for your existing setup is the Sonos Connect, which at $350 seems overpriced to me to attach your amp to the network. But the ease of use and rock solid reliability makes the cost worth it for me.

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive. If you don’t want to leave your computer on you’ll either need a NAS or do what I did — upload your library to the Google Play Music cloud (the first 50,000 songs are free, which has been plenty for me so far — and now I can also access my library from work or anywhere else, which is pretty neat). I believe it limits your local library to around 65,000 songs.

One thing I really like about it is that everything goes through the Sonos app, so playing music from multiple services is pretty seamless and you have a unified interface. Some people don’t like that aspect of it because certain features might not be ported over from a service’s native app and if the service isn’t supported within the Sonos app you can’t stream it — e.g. no YouTube which bugs a lot of people. But you’d want to be sure that any specific features you like about your current apps are supported.

I believe it's been around the longest and as far as I can tell is the current market leader, so it’s probably the safest bet as far as future-proof.

A much cheaper though much less slick option is the Google Chromecast Audio. You’d still need to upload your library to the cloud, and you’d need to use different apps to play your music — Google Play for your library, Spotify, whatever radio app you use, etc. It’s sort of a low budget cross between Sonos and Airplay.

Lots of info on Sonos and comparisons with competition both here and on the horizon: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/sonos-player/

I have a multi-zone Sonos setup at home. Have used it for the last two years and I love it. My only issue is the iTunes library limit is something weird like 80K tracks.

The limit is 65,000 tracks. There's ways to get around that - installing a Subsonic server is one of them. You can also connect to Sonos speakers via DLNA - I use BubbleUPNP on my Android phone for just such a purpose, connected to my JRMC Media server. Setting up all this stuff isn't all that hard, actually.

I've got one Sonos Play:1 speaker (a gift) and I quite like it, though it's technically mono. The newer, more expensive stereo Play:5 has a line-in port which opens up other possibilities. The primary appeal of Sonos is IT JUST WORKS. You don't have to buy anything other than a speaker or two and use them via their app or another that supports DLNA. And the word on the street is their customer service is second to none.

I've also got a Chromecast Audio and find it a terrific value ($35) and an easy way to connect to regular speakers that have a line-out. You could add one to a Sonos Play:5 for the best of both worlds.

My setup is so hodge-podge that I never bother with playing something in multiple rooms. That's now how my life and house is configured anyway.

Having said all that, there are new Sonos competitors on the market. Samsung has multi-room speakers as does Denon. You can set up multiple Chomecast Audio's and sync them together.

If were starting from scratch I very well might just go with Sonos, in part because I like how they sound, it's dead simple to set up, and their app is quite clever in the way it can easily combine tracks from various sources.

This may well be a dumb question but can you plug Audiocast into the back of an amp, or does it need to go straight into the speakers?

Here are the various ways you can connect Chromecast Audio to an amp, speakers, or whatever:
https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/6280276

Sonos looks good but is a little pricey for my budget. If I were setting up a new multi-room system on the cheap, using existing stereo systems, I'd probably go with Chromecast Audio. But those would not support Matt DC's requirement of being able to plug in an external hard drive rather than running a server.

Currently I use antique Squeezeboxes and the free Logitech Media Server software, which streams the contents of my iTunes library and (via a plug-in) Spotify. I love being able to synch audio throughout the house. Based on what I've read, I think I could get my server talking to Chromecast Audio devices without too much craziness ... I hope I won't have to test that for a while!

chromecast audio is frustrating in what you can use with it. on a pc, you can only stream browser tabs, not from stuff like itunes or spotify. you can basically only stream from paid mobile apps, etc. it's useful sometimes, but you can only do exactly what google wants you to do with their platform.

But on an Android phone you can stream all output, regardless of source, to a Chromecast Audio.

xp There are some ways to work around that, both in and outside the browser, but yes, it is frustrating.

In the browser, you could use the Spotify web player and stream that tab. There are some Chrome extensions that can play media files from your computer, and I guess those tabs could be streamed too, as a way to send things from your iTunes library to the Chromecast ... I doubt this would work with DRMed stuff.

So many devices now support streaming that it's hard to keep up with what they can do. The other day I replaced the Blu-Ray player on our home theater system and without my doing anything the new player discovered and connected to my local music server. It has a Spotify app too, so that is an option for streaming music that appeared in my living room more or less by accident.

okay, i knew you could stream from the regular android music player but didn't realize you could just do anything. lol obv i have an iphone.

Chromecast audio using the optical into a DAC is really great. CCA is the greatest value audio product in history

thanks for this thread, had been meaning to sort this shit out for ages and it made me think about properly - in a similar situation to Matt DC, but a little less worried about quality. On top of that, also need something the family can use - like I love thinking about clever cheap solutions, fiddling with connections, weird off-brand black boxes from tottenham court court road, but everyone else in the house will want something that just works, ie as-if-by-magic players that they can control, rather than me saying "it's quite simple. First, open terminal…"

Always dismissed Sonos before - expensive, a bit too single-company dependent, and multi-room was never a need… but shit it does look easy and clever, so… a Sonos 1 to start, get another down the line if it works & have stereo or second room, and maybe build from there. Get my library into Google Play, and down the line run a sonos connect into my old amp and speakers if it all seems to be working. In the meantime, a chromecast audio for them because it's cheap and interesting and why not.

Yeah both my wife and I have Android phones and will I think continue to for the foreseeable future, so the Chromecast Audio looks a pretty easy solution. Although getting my entire library into the cloud, while probably sensible in the long term, still feels like a massive ballache.

Are there really no options that involve just whacking a hard drive into the back of them? TV streaming boxes have been offering that functionality for years, with the ability to zip files round the network vi wifi.

Quality is an issue for me (this is a really good Linn system that we were amazingly lucky to get second-hand) so any option has to sound good on that kind of setup. Then again streaming any source to the Apple Express sounds good in that setup, and I doubt the Chromecast will be a big step down from that.

NAS + Sonos Connect might be the way to go, happy to pay a bit more for something robust in the longer-term. But that Marantz box in the first response does look tasty.

Really useful thread, thanks! I figured I was unlikely to be the only person wondering about this stuff.

I'm running a Chromecast Audio through optical to Musical Fidelity VDAC II into s Cambridge Audio amp and nice speakers. Even using Spotify it gets pretty close to vinyl and CD, there's still some harshness which I think midrange speakers that aren't so revealing might be better... But all said I spent $35 for the CCA and $150 off eBay for the DAC and it's great

One thing to point out, Chromecast Audio doesn't "stream" from your phone. It has its own broadband WiFi connection. Your phone just "points" the CCA towards what you want to play. That means it's not compressed like Bluetooth streaming and even better you can go to another app like YouTube or take a phone call and it won't affect the music. Even if you turn your phone off it will continue to play until the end of the current album or play list.

I'm sure Chromecast works best with Android devices, but I've had good luck using my iPhone and a regular, video-oriented Chromecast -- no problems using the iPhone to control Spotify or YouTube on the Chromecast.

also need something the family can use . . . everyone else in the house will want something that just works

This might actually be my favorite things about Sonos. My wife had just about given up on listening to music between her frustration with Airplay and the impracticality of CDs/vinyl on our main stereo with two kids under the age of 5 running about pressing any button within reach. Now she has music playing all day long and is rediscovering her love for forgotten bands, the kids are being exposed to so much more music, everyone is asking for more speakers throughout the house . . .

I got my parents into Sonos w/ Spotify. My mom is the kind of person who types GOOGLE.COM in the search bar on Google.com. She can work the Sonos from her phone.

Anyone here with experience replacing a Squeezebox 2/3/Touch with a Sonos Connect? I guess since it doesn't have a screen you need an iPad or something to control it?

I was also thinking about this recently. My hifi is very old and i haven't listened to any of my cds or vinyl in years. It's also difficult to find a space for it in my current living room.

How are the actually sonos speakers? I don't care sooo much about sound quality but I certainly don't want anything that sounds like a portable bluetooth speaker.

Or is it a better option to investigate a new standalone hifi and then get a sonos connect or similar?

Sonos app makes it unusable to me. True heads can't even listen to Youtube & my 64 gb itunes library never fully syncs. Currently use apple airplay thru vintage gear but it buffers so I'm interested in other options as well.

Thanks for the tips in this thread, I've been looking for a streaming device too. I have only one audio set in one room I would need to stream to, so I ended up ordering Chromecast Audio... However, upon looking at Google own streaming app, Google Play, it noticed that it transcodes all the FLAC into MP3s. And I know Plex does the same... Most of the music files on my computer are FLACs, and Chromecast itself supports that format, so are there any good music streaming apps that would stream FLACs to Chromecast without transcoding them?

I agree with ums that chromecast audio is THE best bargain on the market. But for multiroom purposes I think Sonos, HEOS or Bluesound are better (though more expensive) choices, in part because of the dedicated control app.

Sonos Connect is a great way to get started with streaming on your current stereo system, it's probably the most stable and developed system on the market. Heos Link and Bluesound Node 2 are good alternatives, they offer more connectivity (usb, optical input, bluetooth-adapter, subwoofer pre-out, triggers) and improved sound (24 bit support, better built-in DACs, better optical outputs).

If you're looking to replace you current amplifier, you'll need active speakers or streamer-amps. The stand alone speakers (like the Sonos Play 1) are impressive but can be a bit tiresome to listen to for very long - unless you're allergic to passive speakers I'd recommend the Sonos Connect Amp, Heos Amp or Bluesound Powernode 2 with a set of budget passive speakers for your main listening room. Price will be similar to a Play:5 or a stereo pair of Play:3s, sound is going to be a lot better.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

As a final note, I'll add that your streaming system is never going to function any better than your router - so if you're using the one supplied by your ISP, getting a proper router (~80$) can make all the difference.

No matter what system you choose, I think you'll experience improved functionality with a NAS - so if streaming your own collection of music files is important, I think that's a solid investment.

Sorry if I sound stupid, but what's a NAS and how do you acquire it?

and can i eat it?

NAS, Network Attached Server. dedicated file server running something like FreeNas or MediaVault.

NAS : network storage.
basically a big hard disc that you access via your home network.
they are not too pricey these days :

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/data-storage/data-storage/wd-my-cloud-personal-cloud-storage-4-tb-21817659-pdt.html

i use the NAS/Sonos Connect setup, and its brilliant.
not fussed re speakers round the house, just needed to get my digital archive into my stereo, and figured this was the best option for my needs.
and yeah, the desktop app is very easy to use, and i love the way you can flip from digital radio, various streaming services (i got 12 months free deezer when i bought the sonos connect), and your local digital library without any trouble whatsoever.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

So basically it's an external hard drive that also works as a cloud? The price is pretty steep, but I guess it'd eventually pay itself back since you don't have to pay a monthly/yearly like with net-based cloud services...

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

(xpost)

yes, to keep your network up and running, then you do need to leave the router on.
i dont think this is a fire hazard !
re router+ USB : no idea, i would suspect it is possible, just depends on how the router maps the USB drive.
if you can access the USB drive as a standard external network drive, then i see no reason why you cant point Sonos to that location and pick up the digital files.

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

people turn off their modem/router???

One thing that seems a bit worrying, in order for it work you have to keep it and your modem on all the time, right? That seems like a bit of fire hazard, or am I overtly cautious?

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

I don't think I've turned a router off except to reboot it in about 15 years.

Rather than full-blown NAS enclosure… can i kill 2 birds/1 stone: buy a new, stronger router with a USB port, plug a terabyte hard drive into that, then point Sonos and/or CCA towards that?

I think my BT Homehub might do this but I've never worked out how to actually set it up properly.

if you think about it there is also electricity CONSTANTLY running into the house. you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency, i.e. the electricity is storing up behind the walls in an active state.

haha that is not how electricity works

Like even if any of that post made sense, "you can prove this by flipping a light switch on, there is no latency" is cartoon funny - the idea you could see the delay between your fingers flipping a switch and a light turning on if it wasn't "storing up behind the walls".

You're being overly cautious. The equipment is designed to be on 24/7 and to just burst into flames would represent a major design flaw. Virtually every office building in the developed world has a server on constantly, if your concerns were realistic they'd be burning down all the time.

Yeah, I get this, but those servers have inbuilt cooling, unlike my modem, which gets fairly hot if I keep it on for two days in a row. I assume this NAS has its own cooling system, though?

i acquired a sonos player last year and the sound is really good but

It ticks every one of your requirements except being able to plug in an external hard drive.

this was just a bit of a deal-breaker - i play all my music off an external HD and the speaker seemed to be requiring that i never switch my laptop off? i don't really see how that's remotely desirable.

Yeah I think this is why people are talking about servers/moving everything to the cloud. Always-on laptop is the scenario I want to avoid.

what about an always-on raspberry pi?

it really confused me when i got it because it was like...how on earth did sonos not take that into account when designing their weird system?

xp

I have the older version of the Marantz mentioned near the top of the thread.

I went for this because, after selling all my high-end gear in 2012 and going with a basic separates system (10yo Sony DVD player into 30yo Cyrus amp), and then giving those up too, I wanted to start from scratch with something good but simple. The sound quality is great (basically just the Marantz into Q-Acoustics monitors and Sennheiser headphones), but there are a few niggles with it dropping off my network with some regularity - so it can't find Spotify, or my iPhone / tablet app can't find the Marantz. CD playback was essential for me (again, it would be nice here if, seeing as it's a networked device, it could do a Gracenote-style lookup and not just say "11 tracks 55:12" like a dumb CD player), but there is a cheaper model without.

It also has a useless Last.fm mode (support for that was withdrawn before I bought mine), good FM/DAB and NAS/USB/Bluetooth/AirPlay connections (the last of which I use a lot when I can't be bothered navigating Spotify via the clunky Marantz app).

As an amp, it's perfectly fine - I route the TV and MD deck in via S/PDIF, and the turntable pre-amp via analogue. I think that's about all the connections taken up, mind.

it's tempting to think there's a NAS out there that you can dump your music onto, and feed your Spotify Premium details, and it would provide a unified search/playlist interface to? with RCA out?

I'm looking to reconfigure my home audio system, hopefully in a way that also integrates with my TV. My main music source is Spotify and my main TV platform is Roku. The essential apps for me on Roku are Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Twitch, and Spotify. Unfortunately, the Roku Spotify app is pretty bad. It doesn't allow you to play from folders, only from individual playlists, and it doesn't support local files, only songs in Spotify's library. I've tried doing screen mirroring from my Android phone to Roku for Spotify, but Roku's screen mirroring is junk, it crashes a lot and pretty much disrupts my wi-fi.

I don't think SONOS is the answer to this, but I'm curious about Chromecast. My main reservations are the lack of Amazon and the concern that casting from my phone to my TV/stereo will cause similar wi-fi issues as the Roku.

I wonder if there are any players that would do the same as what the Marantz does, but also work as an bluray/net video player with an HDMI out and surround sound? I have 5.1 speaker set and I watch movies and play music through the same Yamaha A/V receiver... It feels pretty pointless to have separate systems for music and videos, but most audiophile players/receivers seem to be for audio only.

(xpost)

I have been looking at that Marantz thing for a while actually. If it had phono input I would have bought it already. But I've been in a state of indecision for a while now about whether to get that plus separate phono preamp OR vintage integrated amp plus bluetooth adapter (plus separate CD player I guess).

Oppo players might they are supposed to be great dacs

yeah it would be cool if Roku or Plex could just Handle It All, preferably through a unified search interface.

Again not to sound like I'm on the payroll but a Chromecast Audio & DAC would be preferrable to a DAC w Bluetooth adapter imo

I'm fairly clueless about these things... I have a Yamaha receiver with a supposedly good inbuilt DAC, if I plug the Chromecast Audio to the Yamaha via the optical S/PDIF (which it apparently has), would that be enough, or would I still need a separate DAC in between them?

Nope, no further DAC needed.

Thanks!

I've plugged my external hard drive into my BT router and it worked well enough to start with (basics: I was able to access my iTunes library) but every time my laptop went to sleep I had to reconnect/rediscover the drive. It was a pain in the tits. I get this with my airport express, too (in that it seems to drop off the network if not used for anything much longer than about a half hour and I have to turn it off and on again). I assume it's the low-quality of the router, unless it's something obvious I'm missing?

I'm rapidly talking/being talked into a Chromecast Audio here. Is it audibly better quality than an airport express or the same deal?

Sonos + Spotify is probably the easiest solution, but as someone who refuses to subscribe to music streaming services (it only works on Sonos if you're a paying Spotify user), I've been thinking about getting a network drive to store all my music.

I stayed at a house last summer where the owner had installed Sonos speakers all through the house, including the bathroom and on the patio outside. It was so great to be able to control the music in different rooms and to decide when we wanted to listen to the same thing throughout the house. Almost tempted me into subscribing to Spotify...

Google Music or Amazon Prime music allows you to stream and upload your purchased music and then you can stream it

Sonos is great. We collected bits and pieces second hand (including waterproof controller for bathroom) and I couldn't be without it now. The controllers all broke but they replaced them with wizzy new ones and you can control with your phone anyway. Used with one existing amplifier unit/speakers but their own don't seem that bad. Have refused to pay for Premium Spotify to use with it though, that's my main downside.

We have a sort of music server too, made life easier.

re: those people looking to integrate music and tv -- Sonos does have a soundbar (not cheap) that'll take audio from your TV and distribute it to other Sonos components, and you can set it up with a couple of the small Play:1 speakers and a sub if you want 5.1 surround. If your TV or set top box supports Spotify and something like Plex for local files you're all set (or just use your phone to control music if you don't care about a unified interface).

I look at how much it would cost to deck out our place with Sonos speakers and I look at my kids and think "I would like to feed and clothe these guys without dipping into their college fund"

I'm not sure it's necessary to deck out the place with speakers - an amp and a set of stereo speakers in the living room is great! Want sound ind more rooms? Turn it up!

Buy cheap active speakers for kids' computers - you don't need to be able to synchronize playback between rooms. It's more like a fun luxury.

well my kids aren't 2 yet so the closest they will be coming to getting computer speakers is if we buy some squeaky toy speakers

what i am really looking for is the following:
- no wires
- can stream music from spotify tablet or laptop
- sounds nice in my living room (~30m^2)

would 2x play:1's do the job?

having speakers in more rooms not really important to me. is sonos still the best fit?

If that's all you need then £30 Chromecast audio should do the job? Assuming you have speakers already, that is.

Cheap one-room solution: find a used Phillips Streamium player. They're around and they're pretty good, even if Phillips got out of the game a couple years ago.

I do have speakers & actually just bought the chromecast audio for the time being.

The reason I'm looking to replace them is that the amp+speakers are fairly large & the only place they fit in the room in an awkward position which doesn't lead to very nice sound. I can't move them to a better position without trailing wires all over the place.

xp - will check out the streamium, thx

Sonos would be the most elegant solution (assuming you have outlets near where you'd want the speakers), and two Play:1 would probably be fine in that room. If you're happy with Chromecast and don't mind a wire between your speakers, you could eliminate the amp (and the wires from the amp to the speakers) and maybe get a bump up in sound quality with a nice pair of powered speakers like Audioengine A5 for the same price as Sonos (note I haven't compared the Sonos sound w/ the Audioengine; just speculating).

there's tons of great 90s audio equipment on craiglist. people let go of totally good 90s and early 00s technics, yamaha, denon receivers for peanuts (just don't overpay for the now SUPER inflated "silver face" 70s and early 90s solid state stuff)

but i got a pair of awesome early 80s boston acoustics a30s for $80 and he had even refoamed them

I have a pair of Audioengine A5+ speakers in my living room that also handle the TV. I love the minimal aspect - the amp is built-in to the left speaker and it has plenty of input and output options. These speakers go for around $400 a pair and sound absolutely fantastic, been very happy with them and am only slightly tempted by the new HD6 ($700). I specifically chose active speakers over a soundbar because (3+ years ago) soundbars had a poor reputation for handling music.

I use a doohicky to wirelessly send the sound from my living room/TV over to another speaker (Mass Fidelity Core) in my dining room, been wondering if syncing two Chomecast Audio's would be a better option but it works now, so, meh. As I said, my setup has grown organically over the past few years so it's a mish-mash. My focus is being able to have my music follow me as opposed to having it play in multiple places at once, and I've achieved that with my BubbleUPNP/JRiver server setup - I can listen to something in the car, pause it, resume it on the Sonos, pause it, resume on the Chromecast Audio, etc.

Anyone use Chromecast Audio multi-room feature?

i got a canton dm55 soundbar for my tv recently. ideally i'd have gone all sonos but their soundbar is like 550 pounds or something, my tv is new and only cost 320 so i felt strange about spending way more on the sound. the canton was about 300- it's p great, big booming cinematic sound and seems good for music also.

this thread makes me realise how little unity i have in my setup, kitchen is two active monitors and chromecast, living room the canton dm55, bedroom a sonos, but i can control all p easily so i guess it doesn't matter.

you can create "groups" of CCAs for multiroom play but i haven't tried it

just as an example, here's craigslist today, solid Teac receiver for $30
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5417509609.html

some early 90s Polk S6 speakers $50

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5408860157.html

and a chromecast audio you've got a heck of a lot better sound than 90% of ppl do for a little over $100

i have a pretty similar set up but also threw in this Fiio dac that's the size of half a pack of smokes and costs $30

http://www.amazon.com/D03K-Digital-Analog-Audio-Converter/dp/B009346RSS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454432404&sr=8-2&keywords=fiio+dac

ug anyway I'm done shilling & Sonos is good but man I see what they charge for these little ass speakers and a I get kind of a Bose/Bang & Olafson vibe from that company

"multiroom play" indeed

I've got that DAC, too, great little thing.

I agree that with Sonos, you're paying a bit of a premium. But only a bit, and there's so much else you don't need to pay for or bother with.

Chromecast Audio + speakers you've already got is the best quick and dirty solution at this point. But we'll start to see many other affordable options on the market.

Good overview here.

So it's coming down to Sonos Connect vs Chromecast Audio for me (Mike's Last.fm issue is a dealbreaker for me). I'm assuming Sonos has proper Last.fm support, but what's its radio streaming like? Realistically I'm only going to listen to the BBC and occasionally Kiss or Rinse or something.

Dumb Chromecast audio question - if my entire library is up in the Google Play cloud, does is need to be accessed via my mobile? Is there any way I can allow my wife to search my library through her Android phone as well?

Sonos is starting to seem like the best all round option despite higher set-up costs.

Radio has worked fine for me on Sonos anytime I've used it, but I haven't done so often - others may have found problems through regular use.

I regularly use my Sonos players to listen to BBC radio 4, 5 & 6 (via TuneIn). There have been some issues with quality/reliability of the the BBC streams over the last year or so, but there was a fix at the end of last year and since then it's been perfect.

Sonos supports Last.fm, but it's not comprehensive -- it'll scrobble Spotify and your local library for instance, but not your Google Play cloud library. I've had a couple of other minor annoyances with Google Play via Sonos: when scrolling through my library it stops displaying artists midway through the "T" section (will still play them though), and alphabetizing is pretty primitive -- I haven't looked into it but I think Google Play isn't recognizing the "sort as" tag so it goes by artist's first name, and anything that starts with "The" falls under T. I tend to type the artist I'm looking for though rather than scrolling through the list so not a big deal.

I haven't had any issues with radio streaming through TuneIn.

If you want to save a few bucks on Sonos equipment I've had good luck with Best Buy open box deals. Look up the product on their website and then click "other buying options." I got my last Play:1 for $150 brand new other than the box having been opened.

If you go Chromecast your Google Play library will be accessible to your wife too; just need to enter the account info into the Play app on any phone you want to use.

OK buying a Sonos Connect this afternoon - is it generally advisable to have by NAS set up first?

Nope, you can always set up NAS later

Advisable to get some kind of streaming subscription (if you don't have already) maybe just a 30 day trial - it'll make it a lot more fun

but that takes like 5 seconds to set up anyway :)

That's fine, I have Spotify premium set up anyway (and maybe 1/3 of my library on Google Play but that's such a clusterfuck I'm probably going to delete it all).

my chromecast audio came! pretty neat thing & very easy to set-up. slightly annoying that i have to stream to it from the spotify web interface (rather than the standalone app) on my laptop. it also seems to skip sometimes when i'm doing something else on the laptop. for the price i'm happy & i just streamed the king album over it and it sounded gorgeous.

still thinking of getting a sonos for the living room, but will move the old hifi+chromecast to my study.

So I bought a play:1 and a chromecast audio.

CCA is good, but I'm not mad on the stream-from-browser as a model when I'm on my laptop.

The Sonos, otoh, is fantastic - does everything I'd hoped and sounds better than I'd imagined - surprised by how well a small speaker handles our main room (about 25x10). Family very happy with it, and find it entirely intuitive. The radio is cool - mostly BBC 3/4/6 so far but it is nice to have eg WFMU sitting alongside them.

CCA is good, but I'm not mad on the stream-from-browser as a model when I'm on my laptop.

I was just looking into Chromecast Audio as I would love to no longer have to hook up my laptop to the room stero, and not being able to stream directly from iTunes is a bummer. There seems to be a workaround though

you can use the desktop app to connect to your cca or other spotify connect devices

http://i.imgur.com/hXxHtSh.png

I got the Chromecast too, and so far I've been pretty happy with it. I find it a bit weird that there's no off switch though. Even when I'm not streaming anything it stays warm, there doesn't seem to be any "go to sleep after 30 minutes of inuse" setting or anything. I guess it's not that dangerous or anything, but it still feels stupid there's no timed sleep state, since even mp3 players have it these days.

I found that that if you don't want to spend too much money and you're okay with 320kb mp3 quality stream, the best option is Google Play + Chromecast Audio. Even with if you only opt for the free account, Google Play allows you to upload 50,000 songs from your own library to their server, which you can then stream to Chromecast. So this way you don't have to keep your computer on, and you can still listen to music you've ripped from CD or bought as files. But the downsize to this is that if you're an audiophile and want to stream FLACs to the Chromecast, you can't do that even with a paid Google Play account, the highest quality is always a 320kb mp3 stream.

I acquired the 30 day trial account for Google Play's music service, and so far it seems fine, can't really see that much difference to Spotify. It seems the amount of music available is roughly the same too. (Google Play claims they have a 35 million track catalogue, the latest info I could on Spotify says it has 30 million, but this is from last June. It's weird that Spotify don't mention their catalogue size on their own site?)

But since I'm somehat an audiophile, I like to have the option to stream my own music library as FLACs. It seems there are three options how to do this:

1) Get a paid account for Dropbox/Onedrive/Google Drive or some other cloud drive, upload your library there, then get an app for your mobile/pad that can stream music from cloud to Chromecast. This option means you don't have to have your computer on while streaming music, and of course you can listen to your library through the mobile outside home too. The downside is that this'll cost you at least 10 euros per month for the cloud drive.

2) Get one of those NAS things. This has the same benefits as solution 1, the only difference is that you don't have to pay a monthly fee for a cloud drive rather one payment for the NAS. But they are quite expensive still, the cheapest solution for me would still cost something like 250 euros. It's tempting, but I guess I'll wait to see whether their prices go down. Also, since the NAS has to be plugged in all the time, it'll raise your electricity bills, but so does keeping your computer on to stream music from there.

3) Stream FLACs from your computer with a music database software + an app that lets you control it from your mobile. This is what I'm doing for now, because it's much cheaper and more flexible than options 1 and 2. I'm using Subsonic, which is an open source database/streaming software that allows you tweak it quite a lot, which I like. It costs 1 dollar per month, but it also lets you to stream movies to your bluray player/smart TV and lossless music to your amplifier, if it has network connection. So basically I could play all the music through my amplifier without needing the Chromecast at all, but the amp's simplified interface allows me to browse folder only, which is quite a hassle when you have thousands and thousands of tunes on the computer. So I find using Chromecast + a mobile app that works with Subsonic (I used one called DSub, it cost 3 euros, but it's more versatile than Subsonic's official free app) to be much nicer, plus it can do stuff like playing a shuffled playlist of all the tracks tagged under one genre, which is nice if you feel like having a quiet ambient evening or whatever.

There are some free database/streaming softwares that do roughly the same as Subsonic, but I haven't liked as much. Plex only allows for mp3 streaming (like Google Play), so no lossless music through that. And while Logitech's free alternative does stream FLACs, it's user interface is very bad.

So yeah, those seem to be the options with Chromecast, as far as I can tell. If you some new info or tweaks to add to this, I'd love to hear about it.

If you don't mind keeping your computer on you could use it as a server with software like Serviio

Re uploading stuff to google play - what happens if you upload your pirated collection?

Re flac/cd-quality streaming, Tidal has a hifi subscription that will give you cd quality streaming (HD/24 bit is on the way) and should integrate with cca soon

Re uploading stuff to google play - what happens if you upload your pirated collection?

I don't know, I don't have any pirated files. :) But if I did, I guess I wouldn't upload them, though I can't seen how Google would differentiate those from legal files... It's not like they're gonna ask me to send receipts for everything I've uploaded.

Re flac/cd-quality streaming, Tidal has a hifi subscription that will give you cd quality streaming (HD/24 bit is on the way) and should integrate with cca soon

I checked into Tidal when I was looking into various Chromecast streaming options, and it looks they've been promising Chromecast support for over a year now, so I wouldn't cross my fingers. Of course, if you have an Android mobile/pad, you can mirror whatever you play on any app into Chromecast, but this method seems much more prone to freezing than using apps with official Chromecast streaming function.

If you don't mind keeping your computer on you could use it as a server with software like Serviio

Yeah, this is the same as what Subsonic does, but I chose it because its Android apps have Chromecast support, so you don't have use the mirroring trick I mentioned above. Don't know if Serviio apps have that function too?

I quite like the AppleTV, the 'hockey puck' ones (version 2 and 3) work great without a TV attached. You'll need an amp that has digital inputs (HDMI or optical) but then you're set. And they're hitting the second hand market in large numbers now that the new one is out, you can pick a perfectly good one up for 40-50 bucks.

what happens if you upload your pirated collection?
Nothing, except that it refuses to upload MP3's that were bought on Google Play and subsequently distributed.

Everything about setting up Sonos has been a dream, the app is amazing, sound quality is great, recognises my server and my shared music fine.

Except for some reason the simple act of trying to add a second phone controller is an absolute fucking nightmare. Anyone else had this problem?

part 1 : phew.
part 2 : no idea.

oh, and this morning i had an update of the app (windows pc as opposed to phone) : it now will connect to Apple Music.

Also the Soundcloud and Mixcloud integration is fantastic. Just started listening to random old Essential Mixes on my stereo just for the sake of doing so at the touch of a button.

damn, never even thought about connecting sonos to my mixcloud/soundcloud accounts!?

time for mouldy old dough on the stereo properly ...

basically, i have never looked into the services as i only ever use it to play my local archive ..

Assuming your second device is connected to your wifi network, what happens when you launch the Sonos app? I didn't have any issues adding a second controller.

Hmmm. There was no problem here with other devices - we've got three phones, and ipad and a laptop successfully controlling it.

It just couldn't find the Sonos, tried several times. Might have been a brief blackout or something but I'll try again tomorrow. My phone stopped seeing it at the same time.

Also right now I'm really regretting allowing 15 years' worth of shitty metadata build up.

Re uploading stuff to google play - what happens if you upload your pirated collection?

I don't know, I don't have any pirated files. :) But if I did, I guess I wouldn't upload them, though I can't seen how Google would differentiate those from legal files... It's not like they're gonna ask me to send receipts for everything I've uploaded.

i have tons of said mp3s on my google drive

re soundcloud : bloody hell, if you have not connected, then bill brewsters account is stuffed with brilliance !

hearing this stuff via my stereo as opposed to crappy laptop is a revelation.

right, makes sense - the one annoyance was moments of it not quite connecting, but I've fiddled with router positioning a bit and that helped.

re router chaos :
if the wi-fi is acting up, then turn your electrical power points into a direct ethernet connection to your router.
hello tp-link.
has transformed my house.
advert over.

Also, check the channel your router is set to. I think SONOS works best on 11. There's documentation about this on their support site.

Which TP Link do you have? Tell us more, I could use something like this.

Like Google remotely gives a shit about your pirated music, they know all about it anyway.

Everything about setting up Sonos has been a dream, the app is amazing, sound quality is great, recognises my server and my shared music fine.

i'm always fairly impressed by the sound quality. i have one sonos 1 and you can get huge volume and quality - i would say two of them would be a great setup - i keep intending to buy a second one.

Which TP Link do you have? Tell us more, I could use something like this.

i use this to extend my wi-fi, and hardwire my sonos connect into the router via an electricity power point :

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-18_TL-WPA4220.html

there are non wi-fi versions which i have a few. they are a bit cheaper :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-PA411KIT-Powerline-Adapter-Starter/dp/B0084Y9N3O

Yeah I plugged mine straight into my existing system and it seemed to take little bit of time to warm up, quality-wise, but now it sounds great. Will probably buy a second speaker for the kitchen though.

Forgive the dumm question but with a SONOS could I have a speaker in say a totally different room and decide I want to listen to music just on that speaker? And then theoretically someone in another room could listen simultaneously to something different?

yup

scanners_gif

I'll second the plug for powerline Ethernet adapters ... I use several to support my multi-room system, the bandwidth and reliability are much better than wifi

even though the spotify app nominally supports chromecast audio, for some reason i can never see the chromecast in the list of devices unless i first cast something to it from my phone. very annoying...

but i found a solution: https://github.com/andresgottlieb/soundcast

this application that allows you cast the native osx audio to the chromecast. it just puts a little button in the menu bar at the top (just like airplay) that you can press to turn casting on and off. i can now listen to music from itunes, spotify app, anything

So I went and bought an additional speaker for the kitchen at the weekend, so I guess you could call me a true believer now. Amazed at how powerful and detailed the sound is for quite a small unit (and that the whole house synced up so seamlessly).

Like, just being able to press one button on your phone and for an album to immediately play on your hifi and in another room in the house is beyond classic in a way that I hadn't really appreciated in theory.

Ha, I know the feeling. I make an effort to moderate my enthusiasm when people ask about wireless streaming options so I don't come across as a corporate shill, but it's hard to overstate the degree to which this system has enhanced the experience of listening to music in my home.

If you have access to an iOS device the Trueplay room tuning is pretty cool -- it really opened up the sound of the Play:1 in the kitchen (they haven't been able to implement it for Android because with so many manufacturers they don't have a standardized internal microphone).

I have that Marantz too, and it's frustratingly patchy on the network: AirPlay just dies/drops/refuses to connect quite a lot. It sounds great when it's working, mind.

been on an archiving groove of late.

current Sonos stats :

MAX 65000
COUNT 59123

at this rate it looks like i have another year before i have to figure out my options.

Why use a short to hold ids? It's 2016!

https://en.community.sonos.com/wireless-speakers-228992/future-the-65k-limit-6046321

limits aside, i love the sonos connect.

i think the way i will workaround this is to switch on media streaming on the NAS.

then tap into the NAS drive using the 'media servers' option as opposed to mapping the folder location as a drive.

pretty certain that will bypass the 65k limit.

i think the way i will workaround this is to switch on media streaming on the NAS.

as i approach the 65K limit i came to find out that sonos does not actually support DNLA, so switching on media streaming on my NAS makes no difference.

humph.

Wait so what's the 65k limit? If I have a laptop with a local iTunes library of say 80k, can a sonos play from that library?

its an inbuilt limit from way back when they started making the hardware (a mix of s/w and ha/w restrictions apparently!).
basically, if you have a local digital library of more than 65K individual tracks then sonos cannot index it all.
it's a massive issue for people like me with NAS based archives as opposed to the streaming options that sonos has focused on in recent times.
i am at 62K at the moment, but still have quite a lot of my cd archive to digitise, hence the eye on the horizon.
there are a multitude of options to get around it (set up a stripped back simple windows media server to index the archive, as sonos can 'see' windows media servers),
but all the alternatives are rather fiddly.
i will probably have two separate digital archives, and index then as and when i need.
not ideal, but an easy workaround.
however, if sonos enabled DNLA compatibility then all would be lovely, but i am not holding my breath.

Ugh. I was thinking of getting one but my library is like 85k do I guess it's a no-go. I don't want to do workarounds because the point of getting a sonos would be ease of use. I really just want a speaker that's good enough to fill my 30m2 room and that I can play to from iPhones and my MacBook. I don't currently have any plans for a streaming subscription.

that seems like too much music. how can you guys possibly like/consume that amount of music?

The rather similar denon alternative HEOS supports dlna

does that HEOS push a networked digital archive into a hi-fi amp ?
i don't do sonos wireless speakers stuff, just the 'sonos connect'.
as that seems to the be the best way to feed my archive into my amp easily via a desktop app.
(i used to have a set up whereby the amp could see the archive, but the album/track selection was all via an onboard 3 line display - f*cking impossible to use !)

Have you considered something like Amazon Music? They'll let you upload 250,000 tracks for $25/year and stream through Sonos. 256kbs I think though which I guess isn't enough for some people.

With me, Chromecast + Subsonic virtual server on the computer + Subsonic app on my pad allows me to cast anything as FLACs from my computer to the amp, browse music on the app, create playlists, etc. No upper limits on the library size, AFAIK. I doubt I'll need anything fancier soon.

Have you considered something like Amazon Music? They'll let you upload 250,000 tracks for $25/year and stream through Sonos. 256kbs I think though which I guess isn't enough for some people.

never seen that before.
could be an option.

ahh .. the small print seems to indicate that you have to be an amazon prime subscriber in the uk, which i have considered signing up for, but still.

found the option for £21.99 pa.
blimey ..
yeah, thats a solution.

actually,
it looks like you need to be an amazon prime subscriber to get sonos to connect in,
and then upgrade the amazon music option to get the 250k tracks option.
as they say on dragons den : 'i'm out .. '
(but a cracking idea !)

yeah it is a lot of music...
I don't have a hifi or speakers atm (sold everything prior to moving overseas) so I liked the idea of an integrated speaker/receiver. In principle I'd like a nice system but realistically something for 3-400€ that has a good enough speaker and can p seamlessly handle iPhone / MacBook libraries would be great. Only need it for one room, don't anticipate having a big flat ever again. I don't want to buy used speakers, don't want to spend time searching. And a one-stop solution rather than jigging together various components sounds better, want few /no hassles.

does this have anything to do with george soros?

Also rocking Subsonic as the solution for the 65k file limit.

Regarding DLNA, I guess I don't understand the context of your need. I connect to my Sonos speaker using DLNA from my J River Media server. Is it different when using a NAS?

i suspect J River uses "Rhapsody UPnP" as its streaming groove.
as currently there are only 2 options within sonos : windows media server, and "R UPnP" when it comes to localised media streaming systems.
DNLA = a standardised media streaming system that most NAS drives are capable of.

does that HEOS push a networked digital archive into a hi-fi amp ?

yup, analog and digital pre-outs on the heos link:
https://usa.denon.com/us/heos-link

Definitely not using Rhapsody UPnP - the Sonos speaker shows up as a DLNA renderer in my system.

Have you thought about hooking up a Sonos Connect directly to your NAS? That's supposed to work a charm.

Anyone here have a Sonos Playbar?

Have you thought about hooking up a Sonos Connect directly to your NAS? That's supposed to work a charm.

not sure how that is even possible, or why that would make any difference !?
i have sonos connect wired up via wired network/router as opposed to wi-fi, so as direct as it can be as far as i can tell.
checked that denon option.
looks good,but not sure its available in the uk.
also, after your post, i enabled DNLA on the NAS drive waited hours while it indexed the archive, but it made no difference as the Sonos app still could not 'see' the DNLA server.
i even enabled the 'itunes server' option on the NAS to see if that was an option.
nope.
guess i'll just have to stop buying crappy cd from local charity shops/poundland !

Subsonic looks interesting and seems like a nice fit with Chromecast. Is anyone using Subsonic with Chromecast's multi-room playback feature?

heos certainly available in UK
http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/heoslinkhs2

don't see what good connecting a NAS with ethernet cable to a Sonos Connect would do, but it's definitely a good idea to connect the Sonos to your router with a cable - this enables a Sonos mesh-network that improves stability for all your wireless Sonos devices

are you just putting words with other words now, to see what they sound like together?

haha no it's true, swear

clear advantage to Sonos imo (over Heos, Bluesound) that it has this mesh-network ability

when i went to the saturn store (market leader for tv hifi etc. in germany) and i wanted to get a sonos play 3 - we already had the play 1 which i had set up in 5 minutes - there was a guy from bose(!) who tried to sell me the heos! he said it was much better than the bose and his main argument was that it was an open system. then we tried to plug-in my ipod and ok it worked but the built-in amplifier somehow did not do his job, i hardly heard the music, it was extremely quiet. so in the end i bought the play 3 and as there was a discount i got it for 229 euros, i think. in the end i must say i am a little bit disappointed about the speaker as to me it does not sound a lot better than the play 1. and of course i only have one speaker and i am a stereo kid, so compared to my hifi this is a step back. but for the kitchen it is ok and the setup and the control with the smartphone is dead easy. and i can hear radio (via tunein), stuff from the smartphone, stuff from the music library from my computer and from the streaming service deezer to which i have subscribed to. it is not perfect but very practical.

yeah the Play:3 is a p old model, made somewhat redundant by the newer Play:1 imo

really good solution soundwise is a connect amp or heos amp w/ 2 passive speakers, you can use any passive speakers so price from ~650$ up

sorry, the bose guy said that the heos was much better than the sonos (not the bose)!

yes i was thinking of the connect amp.

I don't think there's much sense in suggesting the active Heos speakers are better than the Sonos - but the Heos Amp definitely packs more punch (and connectivity) than Connect Amp, and you'll hear that on slightly demanding speakers.

approaching 63,000 tracks in my sonos archive (as mentioned earlier max = 65,000)
so, looked deeper into the denon/heos link solution.
all looks lovely, and became very tempted.
however, the controller app is for ios/android only.
game over for me.
back to the playlist solution then.

Can anyone recommend a NAS that works well with Sonos?

Been meaning to move everything off my laptop hard drive, and I think I need a new laptop anyway, so it might be a good time to make the leap...

re NAS drive i use a basic WD MyCloud (4TB) device thats connected to the router ..
not had a problem yet.

re the 65K limit : there is now a solution.
Sonos now supports Plex (in Beta at the moment, so hidden in the Sonos Labs options).
so, set it up last night, and despite a few niggles, it seems to do the trick.
as i am less than 1500 tracks off the limit i am pleased i can now crack on with digitising the rest of my cd archive.

well, at 64,000 tracks i hit the limit a couple of days ago.
apparently its not a solid limit.
if you have tracknames/albums with very long names then they will take up 2 spots in the library.

also, turns out that the plex option is very unreliable.

however !

for anyone else who gets to this situation, here is the easy workaround : http://anderware.org/dev/M3U4U.htm

rather than pointing sonos at your mp3 archive, using that utility, you create a mirror directory structure of your archive that contains an m3u of each album.
that way your 5000 albums takes up only 5000 spots in the library.

the only downside : the sonos search funtion no longer works as the metadata is stored in the mp3,and m3u files have none.
meaning you have have your mp3 archive structured in a clean fashion to help you can find your albums easily.
that said, if you have a set group of albums/artists that you need to get instant access to then you can add to favourites.

upside : it has no reliance on external internet connections/indexing, making it very fast, and reliable.
using that utility its simple to create the mirror directory structure, and then tweak the files so they are easier to find via sonos (eg, group all the groups beginning with A into a sub-folder, same for B, etc etc.
massively larger capacity possible.

Subsonic is so much easier and you don't lose search functionality.

i considered subsonic.
is it a freebie, as i read somewhere you haveto have a paid subscription for sonos.
also, like plex, doesn't it require an external internet connection to function ?

I think there's a small one-time fee to register your domain. And, yes, you need an Internet connection.

Surely a used Mac Mini or iMac running to your existing Airplay would be both cheaper and more configurable. I run an old iMac (2005?) to a couple of Airport Expresses and a USB DAC. iTunes is managing 30 000 + ALAC tracks (I had about 2500 CDs plus downloads) and it's not a problem. An external 2TB drive is sufficient, and running the Jacket visualiser all I see is the album sleeve in the stereo cabinet. I can control it direct via mouse/keyboard, using an Apple IR remote, the Remote app on iPhone / iPad, or via Screen Sharing from my laptop. I think the total cost was maybe $250 for the iMac and two Airports.

(also the audio is lossless 44/16 fwiw)

I finally ditched the 30 pound giant old speakers for two play:5s. Have two play:1s in the apartment as well. I use the analog inputs on the play:5s for tv and records. It is great to be rid of long snaking cables and to be listening to records broadcast everywhere. Still I'm not sure that the sound is better than my giant old monitors.

there's a freshman year of college computer speakers quality to it all that may be entirely psychological. Could be the weird "loud" eq setting they use as defalt.

Also had to turn the bass down before I coud even hear any dialogue over the rumble in a movie/tv.

I'm now thinking of getting a Connect (sans amp) and hooking it up to my Audioengine A5+'s. The best of both worlds, although they're a bit overpriced ($350), I think I can get one off eBay for considerably less.

seems like a good idea. The best part of all of this is wifi (not bluetooth) and the software.

After years of babying along my ancient Squeezeboxes, I took the plunge and replaced them with Chromecast Audios ... so far these are delivering good synchronized sound to my upstairs and downstairs receivers.

really wish the sonos app had a way of listing albums in year of release order so i could see what i have bought from this year.

Yeah, I'd like more sorting options too. I've tried to get around it somewhat by creating smart playlists in iTunes for things like releases from specific years, but that's really only practical for shuffle mode since it shows tracks, not albums. And I prefer to stream my library from Google Play, not my computer, so end up almost never using the playlists away.

They're announcing new hardware on October 4; hoping for app updates as well.

i have no interaction with anything other than my local NAS archive/sonos connect/hi-fi amp.
would rather not have to replace the connect,
as they will probably make any new kit more about streaming as opposed to local archives as thats their declared future.
i am even old school in the new school.

got the sub with discount for christmas this year. also found a way to place 5s so that they can stand vertically, tweeters on the inside. now completely satisfied with this as replacement for my giant old monitors.

also tried using alexa with sonos and almost immediately went down a road that featured alexa trying to sell me amazon music unlimited :-/

amazon is maybe good at supply chain operations and some software stuff but then bad at hardware quality and many other software things. anyway, alexa is listed under a "voice services" menu in the sonos app settings. other voice services will presumably be available some day.

I've not had to change my setup in two years (Connect plugged into my big system in the front room, NAS, additional speaker in the kitchen). It's basically perfect and the idea of integrating Alexa or any other voice control options into it is extremely offputting.

I've not had to change my setup in two years (Connect plugged into my big system in the front room, NAS, additional speaker in the kitchen). It's basically perfect and the idea of integrating Alexa or any other voice control options into it is extremely offputting.

this.

I got the Connect for the Audioengine's in the living room and a Sonos One (with Alexa) for the dining room. It's great and once I've paired the rooms they always play together regardless of what app I use to stream to them.

Agreed that the Alexa function on the One is fun but not as full-functioned as Google Assistant. It's great for my wife to be able to say "Alexa, play WCRB on Tunein" to get her radio fix, or for the kids to ask Alexa to play something random from Spotify. Me, I don't listen to music that way - I've always got something playing or in the queue and control it from my phone.

I also picked up a few Google Home Mini's and they're terrific for the kids and for asking random questions that pop up, I look forward to Sonos adding the Assistant to the One.

what's the setup of your big system, MDC? I fancy the NAS/connect/big system approach

x-posts

xp yes, it is great for "alexa, play discover weekly". Our One is in the kitchen so we don't have to touch the app controls while cooking. I just wish it could all be so easy. I haven't tinkered with it too much. I made spotify my default music service to drop the "on spotify" part. It might be more useful to make a set of commands for more complex tasks, though.

you'd think that "Alexa, what is the containment of the Thomas Fire?" would work. google will at least point you toward an article with 'containment' in it. you could find that article and recite the bit containing 'containment'. alexa just recites the wikipedia entry.

what's the setup of your big system, MDC? I fancy the NAS/connect/big system approach

I bought a WD MyCloud which seems to do the storage job well enough. The system itself is an inherited Linn which I would never in a million years have bought for myself (I have audophile in-laws who upgraded a few years ago), so it's not an especially useful guide, but the Connect will plug into the back of pretty much anything.

Tim H has an eBay'd Linn which is one of the best-sounding things I've ever heard.

My bedside listening device is a venerable mid 90s Hitachi boom box. Tbh it's more than fine, plays tapes and CDs and has a real radio obvs.

I've been thinking about getting a small Bluetooth receiver for it so I can stream off phone / computer (and recommendations are welcome - doesn't have to be super hi-fi.) But for reasons I'm also wondering if a Play:1 (specifically) would be a significant step up (or otherwise) in audio quality. The Hitachi is stereo of course and has a third 'bass' driver.

Any 'pinions?

I would highly recommend the Harman Kardon Onyx. I have the Studio 2 version which is a couple years old now. Bought it for around $150 and it sounds fantastic.

I love play:1s. they sound good, are small, and have reliable wireless performance. any sonos player will come tied to using a sonos app on your phone or pad device, at least for setup and admin, though. so it helps to have good wireless in the location you put the player and a good phone or pad for reliably connecting to that same network. Since it isn't bluetooth, you need to also be sure that your chosen streaming methods (or suitable equivalents) can be used with sonos.

Sonos also has the benefit of being a system. if you find you have another $150 to spend at a later date, you can build upon your bedside purchase and sync a play:1 in the bedroom with a new one in the kitchen. given the popularity of the system, the community also produces other interesting things to play with, such as the soco (sonos controller) package for python, if that interests you.

downside to the wireless/system approach is that you will need to go through speaker setup/registration every time you switch wireless networks. so it is harder to bring a play:1 to your friend's party (though not too much trouble)

We have a Play 1 in our kitchen and a 3 in the living room. Small house, so that covers us pretty well downstairs. The upstairs is the kids' space, and we just got them one of the new Play 1's with Alexa, which they love. So far I have resisted the urge to remotely take over their speaker and blast them out of bed in the morning.

I'm thinking that a lot of what a Sonos system offers I don't especially need right now. It would hinge mainly on sound quality, although setting up a NAS starts to seem quite appealing.

The Onyx stuff seems like it probably wins on sound quality.

Then again I'm looking at a <£20 Bluetooth 4.1 receiver with APTX which would require almost zero faff. I do love that the Hitachi has been with me over twenty years and survived multiple festivals and house parties.

tbh I'd expect the Onyx to win on portability and ease of setup and lose on sound quality. you'd have to A/B to know for sure.

I love my Sonos system. I've got it connected to a HDMI splitter, so I can use it both as a wireless stereo and also for movies off my laptop and games off my Switch.

Lots of weird quirks-- if the Wifi is slow at any point in the day, sometimes the sound dips out pretty annoyingly.

by "HDMI splitter" do you mean an HDMI to ethernet adapter? I'm confused about how you are getting digital audio to sonos in this case. I've had good luck with the wifi on play:1s or Ones. play:5 wifi reliability is bad, though. Sonosnet is 2.4GHz, so reliability will depend on the number of other 2.4GHz routers near your system. can also try changing the channel sonos uses.

I'm not AV smart, I just bought a 4-to-1 HDMI funnel and then a "split stereo audio off the HDMI cable" connector. Maybe not the most elegant solution but I can switch between SNES mini, Switch, computer or Sonos app without touching any buttons

ah, I see. So you are plugging that analog audio into an analog input on a sonos player or some other device eventually on the network. I plug all hdmi stuff into the TV and convert the digital optical out to stereo audio. I didn't think of the HDMI splitter + converter way.

i just plugged my new alexa (!) straight into my stereo and it's great

"play 1xtra" and it does it. spotify is plumbed in so i say "play the new gas album" and it does it. wild

podcasts are shonky. it's via tunein and i can't tell if any sort of subscribing or "bookmarking" is possible i.e. all the things that make podcasts good.

however. i can just bluetooth to it from my phone. which is probably a better interface for podcasts anyway.

bye bye airport express, you always pretty much sucked

Hm, AE is lossless, and the most recent has a DAC which measures better than most audiophile gear. Works for me.
Also - https://www.wired.com/story/hackers-can-rickroll-sonos-bose-speakers-over-internet/

AE dropped out constantly for me, totally unreliable whether i was using phone or computer.

it also didn't tell me the weather

Can be chancy in a cluttered wifi environment, but I stream to mine literally dozens of hours a week and typically get maybe 2-3 dropouts in that playtime.

no weather, but

yeah i live in London, literally more than a dozen Wifi networks visible in my dropdown

almost just wrote "me dropdown" like some salty sailor tutting at his poor wifi reception on the open seas

We got a second-hand Linn Numerik DAC over Christmas and plugged the Sonos Connect into it, and it's improved the sound even on Spotify to an audible degree. Everything just sounds more three-dimensional now.

My old Airport Express used to drop out all the time, it was hugely annoying.

I connected my Airport Expresses to inexpensive powerline adapters via ethernet and it solved all of my dropout issues. I've mostly moved to Sonos but still use a couple of AEs and can't remember the last time I had a dropout. Don't know how well those adapters work in apartments though.

This might be outside the scope of this thread and better suited to computer questions in ILE, but -- I picked up a Chromecast Audio to use at work, not realizing that client isolation would prevent me from using it on the office wifi network. I think I can get around this by using one of those $20 wireless travel routers in bridge mode to create my own wifi network that piggybacks off the office wifi. Will that complicate my life in any ways I'm not anticipating?

Wouldn’t the travel wifi itself have to join the office network, encountering the same problem?

if you have access to an Ethernet port at work, you might be able to use the Ethernet Adaptor for Chromecast

It would have to join the network, but no other wireless devices would need to communicate with it on that network, so I think I would be ok. The reason I can't use the Chromecast now is that our office router isolates all of the wireless devices connected to it, so my phone can't communicate with the Chromecast over the network. But with the travel router they'd be communicating through the new wifi network that it creates, so I think I'd be ok. I think if I can set my phone to prioritize my new network over the office one it should work pretty seamlessly, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm overlooking something.

I hadn't seen that Ethernet Adapter for Chromecast -- will look into that too, though my stereo isn't very close to the available ethernet ports unfortunately. Might be worth running a cable though. Thanks.

the travel router needs to be a repeater, not a bridge, no?

Wouldn't a repeater mean that I'd be on the same network that is causing me problems now with AP/client isolation? (I'm no expert on this stuff.)

I am also not an expert. but when I set my second router to "repeater mode", it creates new wifi network for forwarding to the main router. if I connect to that new network, I believe the main router still only sees the repeater as a client. when I set the second router to "media bridge mode", I am connecting to the LAN of the main router and connecting to the bridge with ethernet. I don't think I am treated as a wireless client in this case? this is at least the convention used by my old asus router.

actually, I think the bridge is treated as a wireless client. so you'd need to do "repeater mode". I think we are in agreement here, and just using different terms.

These Controller updates can be slightly painful, especially when WiFi is a little dodgy. Wonder what the latest one is about

I have the feeling there is almost an update per day. It's dubious. The user interface has become worse after the last major update from a while ago. I will never understand why software is too stupid to find out my faves, here the radio stations. I have about 3 or 4 but sonos sytematically proposes those i just don't want to listen to. I also lose the wlan connection despite repeater very often.

This latest update seemed to require admin password on my Mac to do something

I'm researching because I want to get a Sonos system, the above's been of great use already. Just one quick (dumb) question: Sonos lists it works with different music streaming services (Spotify, iTunes etc), but will it also stream any sound coming from my mac/pc laptop? Like youtube?

Also: I'm thinking of getting two Play:5's for the living. Will an extra Play:1 suffice for a smaller working room/home office (25 m2)?

still no youtube support and doubt it will ever be added

you might consider Heos or Bluesound which basically do the same but add bluetooth functionality (for streaming direct sound from pc/phone)

Thanks for that, will investigate. Heos looks good but only has a smartphone/tablet app, no pc/mac

you're in the Netherlands? you can get a demo of all three systems at your local Hi-Hi Klubben https://www.hifiklubben.nl/

Actually some of the newer Sonos speakers (including the most recent Play:5) support AirPlay 2, so you can indeed stream all audio from your Mac — Sonos specifically mentioned YouTube as a use when they announced it a few months ago. The Play:1 you’re considering for the workroom doesn’t have AirPlay, but if you AirPlay audio to a Play:5 that speaker can send the audio to the Play:1. The slightly more expensive (and somewhat confusingly named) One does have AirPlay.

As for room size, I have a single Play:1 in a room probably about 35 m2 and it’s perfectly fine for casual listening.

I don't know what's up with my Sonos, to be honest.

It works perfectly for Tidal. When I play a game and run the audio through the line-in there's no problem. But as soon as I try and play a movie through it-- HDMI into audio-splitter, video goes to the projector, RCAs go to the line-ins on the Bridge-- it glitches and hiccups. I got a Boost, even, to see if that'd help, but it continues to stutter. (It's almost as if Sonos can sense when I'm doing something non-profitable with it)

youtube music is going to be added, i read. the app has been on various free trials for a while.

Thank you Early Rejecter, that is kind of the last piece of the puzzle I needed an answer to! (Play:5 Airplay 2 -> the Play:1) And pleased to hear a small Airplay:1 will suffice for a small(er) room. Thanks!

Niels, I won't bring my very best 'Brothers In Arms' mp3's to a store to test the different systems, but thanks ;)

* "a small Play:1", is what that should read

well, if you go to a store you get a good idea of how the speakers sound and you can try out the interface etc, I'd def try before buying

you can also bring some dope ass Knopfler recordings to hear how much better a Sonos Amp with a pair of real speakers will sound at the price of a Play:5, but I realize people are different (I would personally use a play 1 in the bathroom, tops, but I like stereo systems)

Heos has no native pc/mac app which is a dealbreaker for me, and Bluesound is priced way higher, so I'm settling for two Play:5's for the living and a Play:1 for the writing room.

that'll definitely do and Sonos is a hella cool system too

but if you have the time to pass by your local store and get a demo of two play 5s (around 1000eur?) vs a sonos amp + 2 dali zensor 3s (817 eur https://www.hifiklubben.nl/streaming/sonos/sonos-connectamp--dali-zensor-3-muziekinstallatie-met-streaming/) I think that might prove revelatory

I know you love music ;-)

how much better a Sonos Amp with a pair of real speakers will sound at the price of a Play:5

I would personally use a play 1 in the bathroom, tops

I'm not knocking Sonos (I've never used it) but as someone who already has a couple of stereo systems and pairs of powered speakers and not a whole lot of disposable cash, I've been getting excellent results with Chromecast Audios (on sale through February for $15 each) and the free version of Plex.

I find them perfect for the kitchen and small bedrooms. The big room also has a traditional stereo system that I use if I'm sitting in that room specifically to listen to music, but if I just want something playing while I'm taking care of things around the house the Play:1 is fine for me in there.

I'm not knocking Sonos (I've never used it) but as someone who already has a couple of stereo systems and pairs of powered speakers and not a whole lot of disposable cash, I've been getting excellent results with Chromecast Audios (on sale through February for $15 each) and the free version of Plex.

I have a Sonos Connect plugged into a big system in the living room, and a Play:1 in the kitchen. I had some issues with the stereo amp earlier this year so I moved the Play:1 into the front room temporarily and it was amazing how much worse it sounded, it just didn't fill the room unless you turned it up really loud. The Play:1 is fine in a small room though but it's never going to be better than a proper system.

I mean it has much better definition and bass than any similarly-sized speaker I'd usually put in the kitchen, so definitely worth it for that alone. Plus being able to have the same music playing as you move from room to room is beyond classic obviously.

sonos is great for adding sound to small rooms that wouldn't otherwise have it. you can make it work for your main listening/watching room but
1. you'll want to pair a sub with either two play:5s or the bar/base/etc. you'll need to use the line-ins on the play:5s for video. bar/base/etc have optical connects to your TV.
2. I don't recommend using a connect:amp for matching video/audio as I think you'll get the sort of trouble fgti mentioned. I'd use a connect to add streaming music capability to a separate amped stereo.

if you do #1, you might be spending a bit more than you thought. if you do #2, you'll be switching sources separately on an amp and your phone/tablet, which will make your overall experience a bit worse.

I'm sorry but I don't follow at all, doing #1 is imo throwing money out the window unless you are allergic to non-Sonos speakers

amp works fine with video ime and certainly the line in on a play 5 is no better than on the amp? in fact you'd be less susceptible to sync issues when you don't have to sync 2 play5s but only 1 amp powering 2 passive speakers with 0ms delay

reason I recommend the Sonos Amp + passive speakers (any quality brand) is it's the cheapest, simplest, best sounding solution (unless you want to get fancy with a better quality amp and the Sonos Connect, but that's not really relevant here)

also, just to chip in here despite my setup is not relevant.
the desktop/mac app has recently been updated with a clean new interface, but, now has reduced functionality.
you can no longer add new speakers via the desktop app, you have to add any new devices via an IOS/Android device.
there has been a big kickback in the Sonos community, but so far there are no indications that they will reverse this decision.

xxp my friend has latency issues with his connect:amp. it could be the tv, though.

doing #1 is not throwing money out the window. it is spending money to get 1.no speaker wires (without putting them in walls) 2. no external amp, and 3. a single interface to all sound sources in your home.

I can understand not wanting to spend money on those things or situations where they'd matter less. speaker wires matter less if you have a media console sort of setup. they matter more if you have a television mounted to the wall.

fair enough

they will need power cables though, and an audio cable from the tv

but I'm a bit old fashioned, I know

when you guys are saying "amp" you mean the connect:amp and not the new product just called amp, right?

kind of interested in getting the new one as a replacement for my current receiver to minimize/modernize but I'm curious how it is

oh wow hadn't seen that one looks practical and more powerful too, cool

https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/amp.html

I guess it was the oldest product in their lineup

I am kind of considering replacing my normal receiver with that, since I now run all my video stuff to the TV and then to the receiver. I have two floor standing speakers and a subwoofer, so I'm thinking I could buy that new sonos amp, plug my existing speakers in, and then add two sonos speakers in the back of the room and do 4.1?

I can no longer control my Sonos from my iPhone!! An update took that functionality away! WTF???

due to old OS that can't be updated? There are independent controllers like sonophone that might work.

welcome to the joys of SONOS.
those of us who use the Windows desktop controller have had to accept a huge degradation in functionality.

iPhone control working fine for me with the latest update -- have you tried rebooting your phone and/or speakers?

Has anyone tried out either of the new Ikea Sonos speakers? I was surprised to see that they support AirPlay.

the bookshelf one is good and is nearly identical, functionality and sound-wise, to the play:1

I haven’t used the kit to make it into a shelf yet, but it seems well thought-out

my iphone works if I'm streaming spotify, but now I can't play mp3s that are saved on my iphone. apparently i need airplay ... but none of my sonos speakers are compatible with that? seems lame.

but now I can't play mp3s that are saved on my iphone

there was discussion re this on the sonos boards. its not your phone at all, it is a designed reduction in functionality.

so i'm just out of luck?

seems like it's more a (common) case of "we're not going to update the software on our older devices to work with changes Apple made, so just buy one of our new devices".

blecch

YOU RANG?

need you to help stream my neil young bootleg mp3s through my sonos speakers

my iphone works if I'm streaming spotify, but now I can't play mp3s that are saved on my iphone. apparently i need airplay ... but none of my sonos speakers are compatible with that? seems lame.

― tylerw, Thursday, August 22, 2019 3:04 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

^^^ THIS!!!! This is exactly what’s happening with me!! This makes me so mad I really really really dislike everyone involved.

And to think ome of you people were trying to sell me on this ecosystem not so long ago.

For my own files on Sonos I signed up for the the free tier of Google Play Music which allows you to upload up to 50,000 songs. When Google introduced Youtube Music they said that Google Play Music would eventually be eliminated, and I don't know what happens to my cloud library then. If it disappears I supposed I'll stream directly from my computer, or maybe look into a NAS. At the moment Google Play is working beautifully though.

Aside from that I guess the next cheapest option for you would be that $100 Ikea Sonos speaker that supports AirPlay. I know with the standard Sonos speakers, as long as one of them supports AirPlay you can use that one to send audio to your non-AirPlay Sonos speakers; I assume the Ikea one lets you do that too but don't know for sure.

I never stream from my phone so I hadn't noticed that that option was eliminated.

Lol tyler

Use the BubbleUPNP app to stream media from your device to Sonos.

UPDATE! I downloaded the Sonos application on my PC. Then I was able to sync that with my iTunes library. And now the Sonos mobile app on my iPhone syncs with the app on my PC. I can control playing from the Sonos app on my iPhone, but now I need to re-import any new songs or playlists from iTunes to the Sonos Controller app. Which is A LOT more work, but at least I can use my Sonos speakers again.

well, that was an unexpected treat this morning.
the new Sonos update allows you to connect to a Spotify Free account.
limited access to the library, but still, quite chuffed about this.

here's hoping the spotify app starts to consistently "see" the sonos speakers in the device list

Mine always sees it but doesn't always choose it, if you switch tracks it often starts playing on the phone instead, or as well as. Sonos app is fine unless you have lots of playlists organised in folders, since folders don't come through. Or there's google voice support which is like speaking to a halfwit.

Sonos app is fine unless you have lots of playlists organised in folders, since folders don't come through.

i have over 4000 m3u files, and can access them as per their folder structure.

eg \\nas_drive\genre\artist\album, \\nas_drive\record_label\artist\album etc etc

i needed to do this to break down my digital archive into 2 parts to avoid to dreaded 65K limit, the standard library for Sonos to index, and then the M3U library which mirrors a different non-indexed directory according to my own digital filing system.

I use the M3U4U app to generate the M3U library off a non-indexed directory, and configure the Sonos app to index the standard library, and the M3U library.

You then add the M3U library folder to your 'Favourites', and boom, you can drill down the folder structure to get to what you need.
This way I have nearly 50,000 tracks not indexed by Sonos, by accessible via the M3U library.

The M34U app :

http://www.anderware.org/software.php?page=dev/M3U4U.htm

once you get it all configured and working its really easy, you just have to remember your digital filing rules for the non-indexed directort as Sonos does not provide searching on M3U files !

oh i meant spotify playlist folders! for better or worse i do all my listening & playlisting through there now.

ah ha ... fair enough.

xps Same issues here selecting Chromecast Audio via Spotify Connect. Eventually works, usually? Blurrg

Sometimes the Google Home app is helpful for selecting/controlling/rebooting Chromecasts ... if I can't get a Chromecast to connect to Spotify I'll resort to Home.

sonos is a pain in the ass. either it doesn't start at all or the databases of the external sources do not connect or the music (radio and/or streaming service) does not play. right now it is the latter. this has been going on for ages. these days i prefer bluetooth speakers, they work at least!

I've never had this problem but nine times out of ten if something goes wrong it's either a wifi interference issue or the streaming service itself going down.

"Hey Google, shuffle Cool Songs playlist"

"Ok, playing the Cool Songs playlist on Spotify"

*plays the playlist in order*

"Hey Google, shuffle"

"Sorry, that mode isn't available"

rassenfrassenrassen

these assistants have been around for a couple of years now, with the world’s best AI researchers doing them, and they really don’t feel like they’ve improved at all. They’re still incapable of the most basic shit. much less something like responding to a question like “what kind of music is this” or “how do i get to the bus from here”

just asked siri where the closest bus stop was and it got it

part of the problem is word choice, especially if it’s something built into an app and not something it’s cloud searching. like, does “kind of music” mean genre, and does it know that?

you can often get to things on the third or fourth try but it’s not good enough and hasn’t noticeably improved in this respect on any device i use.

“siri, read me my next meeting”

“here’s your next meeting” (displays the meeting on the screen)

Sonos states on their website that "sustainability is non-negotiable," and that they design products to minimize impact, but I work at an e-waste recycler and have demonstrable proof this is false.

Sonos's "recycle mode" intentionally bricks good devices so they can't be reused. pic.twitter.com/VJDNhYOxRy

— ralph waldo cybersyn (@atomicthumbs) December 27, 2019

well, that's crap.

and it gets better :

https://blog.sonos.com/en-gb/end-of-software-updates-for-legacy-products/

they really are pissing off a lot of their customer base with this.

i suspect i will be ok(ish), as i use my Connect mostly to push my NAS based digital archive into my amp, but if i had flipped over 100% to streaming only, then this really would be a poke in the eye.

That End of updates for legacy equipment is aggravating me

I'd be fine with it as long as the application still supports older hardware in a diminished capacity and as long as there aren't security holes they're not patching

the big issue that has yet to be properly addressed is for people with a set up of mixed legacy and modern, and from the vocal fallout, seems to be most people who have subscribed to the sonos ecosystem for last few years.
if you have any legacy kit in your set up, then none of the devices, modern or otherwise, will get software updates.
advised solution : remove legacy devices, upgrade legacy devices, or leave as is and end up with possible reduced functionality at some unknown time in the future (esp. if you use 100% streaming).
it really is quite a shitty choice for many folks.

as for the 30% discount.
i bought my Connect at the beginning of 2015 (the 6 year guarantee from the seller has lasted longer than its supported life) for £280.
a replacement Port with no added functionality, in fact there is less as they have removed one of the output options, costs £399, which with 30% off would be .. £280.

imo the main problem is they view their tech that allows synched streaming to a number of wireless devices as the crown jewels of their product line

the nice thing to do would be to unlock whatever DRM or lockout functionality exists in legacy products with a final update and then open source the firmware

re open source : that has been requested quite a few times, but i think we know the outcome.

fwiw I have the Sonos Amp (driving my classic stereo speakers), two of the small satellite speakers, and one of the Ikea bookshelf ones and I have absolutely no interest in any of the speakers with voice assistant support

anyone else have the Amp or any other product that has line in? I hooked my turntable up after it's been sitting idle and something was seriously off with the audio, but I suspect my stylus might need replacement

Connect has a line in.

I guess my question is whether anyone's running a turntable in, and does it sound fucked up?

I've logged into MySonos and my Connect is shown as 'Modern Product' with a tick next to it, so I assume that means it's still supported?

Buy a used Squeezebox; they still have a very active developer community - Logitech screwed them by buying the tech and then ceasing to manufacture it, but at least the firmware and server/player software were open-sourced.

(xpost - most Squeezebox models don't have a line in, except the Transporter which is going for around $500+ in the used market)

mh : ahh sorry, no, not done that.
just tried it out now, and sounded perfectly fine.

xp : yup, you clearly bought a post 2015 model.

Chromecast Audio was probably the greatest audio device based on value for money ever created. if you live in a small house or apartment and just have one set of speakers, it basically gave you Sonos for $30

tbh I just use Airplay to the speakers half the time and could easily just dump Sonos and either wire my satellite speakers or go back to stereo

Chromecast Audio was probably the greatest audio device based on value for money ever created. if you live in a small house or apartment and just have one set of speakers, it basically gave you Sonos for $30

hence why the fact its discontinued is a very weird situation.

a lot of suggestions for people who use Connect + Streaming services seems to be pointing to the Bluesound Node solution.
which even has a Windows based app as most of the other solutions only have IOS/Android apps.

the older Apple wifi devices still work really well with the older Airplay standard, if you have Apple junk. I have one around that I use for that purpose occasionally. single audio jack on the back, pretty good DAC

xpost Google gives up on so many useful things, really weird company

Used Chromecast Audios are selling on eBay now for twice their original retail price.

mh: If it doesn't have one built in, are you running your turntable through a phono preamp first?

good call re pre-amp.
i have one connected to my turntable and just swapped the turntable output from amp to the Connect, hence all worked ok.

given the chaos this is clearly causing, i have one simple very self preservation question.
in order to use Sonos, you now have to connect your device to an account that Sonos then get data/access from.
i care not for streaming/stats or anything, does anyone know if its possible to use a Sonos device without having to use your Sonos account ?
it never used to require you to login to Sonos in order to connect to your device - this need kicked in a couple of years ago, and at the time i was concerned, as i bought Connect purely to allow me to push my digital archive into my amp.

(xpost - most Squeezebox models don't have a line in, except the Transporter which is going for around $500+ in the used market)

Not true. My Squeezebox "Radio"s have 3.5mm line-in. And I Google'd about the Boom and it does too. Maybe you meant optical? I dunno about any fancier in's on any of the hardware.

I'd been using Logitech Media Server around 10 years with none of the dedicated hardware (using Raspberry Pi's, laptops, phones, whatever--hooked up to any set of speakers or headphones). Just recently got 2 Squeezebox Radio's on eBay for $50 apiece, they're alright. I joke that it's too much shagging around to really recommend... but compared to all of the more recent "smart speaker" nonsense, it's a great system that can't be shut down on you.

Logitech tried to go the service-dependent route with stuff like the "UE Radio"... which can now be turned into a Squeezebox Radio with a software update (so whichever you can find used is fine).

For what it's worth, there's a project going on to make LMS follow Alexa/Echo commands.

All I really want is a WiFi enabled hard drive for MP3s with a decent DAC and audio out. No one seems to make such a thing.

I am most definitely using a preamp

Oh, I don't have much experience with the standalone Squeezebox products with built-in speakers, since I want to use my fancy speakers... all mine are used with an integrated amp. I meant the Squeezebox 2/3/Classic/Touch/Transporter models. I love the interface on the Squeezebox Touch, it's just about perfect (and almost endlessly customizable).

Nate, I think there's things like that. Key terms to search... NAS (network attached storage) and uPNP or DLNA (protocols for basic media playing/discovery on networks)

though yeah the music playing thing will probably have to be separate

my NAS drive, as most are, is DNLA compliant,
the issue is getting the mp3s (or whatever) on the NAS into the amp via a delivery system thats not just about the individual file.
i.e. playing albums as a complete whole.

*DLNA

Chromecast Audio was probably the greatest audio device based on value for money ever created. if you live in a small house or apartment and just have one set of speakers, it basically gave you Sonos for $30

so true

I have two Chromecast Audios on stereos in different rooms, used Google Home to group them, and have zero problems playing synchronized output from Spotify or Plex

after I got that going I shut down my Squeezebox Classics and LMS

I've got all my music and a bunch of movies on a NAS machine with Plex installed. I can either stream direct from my phone running Plex to Sonos, or use the Sonos app to stream direct from the Plex share.

problem re plex : another external agent involved.
also, i am not able to install the plex server s/w on my NAS drive, and nor would i if i wanted to.
i tried out the whole external plex/sonos team up thing a while back to navigate around the 65K library sonos limit as it was the suggested solution, and really battled with it.
it worked briefly (albeit with a lot of TLC), then something went hiccup, and that was it.
in the end i found a much easier internal solution to the 65K limit that means i can now quite easily disconnect from any of the external services, and just use my Connect for my internal set up only.
but i dont think thats currently possible.

fair game

I didn't realise Google had discontinued the Chromecast audio. That's madness.

When mine breaks, or when I get around to it, I'm going to get an Arcam miniBlink: https://www.arcam.co.uk/range/accessories/miniblink.htm

MP3s with a decent DAC

this is a total n00b question but is there consensus on the best way to wirelessly stream from a Mac desktop to a stereo system? and i just mean from a strictly functional point of view i.e. audio out from computer -- > to an input on the stereo.

A few months ago I picked up a squeezebox duet from the street where it was being thrown out - hooking it up to my nice old 2ch amp it's actually really great for bringing Spotify and Bandcamp into my more attentive listening space - and being able to control via Ipeng app on iphone is nifty. really impressed with it for a decade-old bit of kit

(wasn't meant as an answer to your question Tracer Hand but this is, in fact, exactly what I'm doing)

I have a Raspberry Pi lying around that I’ve always been meaning to do something with. Maybe this will be the year I buy a DAC card for it and just build the exact thing I want.

Tracer, I use a bluetooth audio receiver hooked into my amp. the brand is "esinkin" and it was about £25. it's about the size of a box of matches. It's pretty reliable. Sometimes it doesn't pick up the stream but i just switch it off and on and it's good again.

Just FYI Bluetooth is lossy, but the now-defunct Airport Express does exactly what you are asking and it’s a lossless 44/16 stream. The last gen (looks like a white Apple TV) has incredibly flat and well behaved audio characteristics (up there with audiophile CD players) and also optical out.

xp I don't think there is a consensus on the best way, or even a cheap/easy way, to stream audio from a Mac to a stereo system.

Macs can stream to AirPlay devices, but as far as I can tell Apple no longer sells any simple AirPlay gadgets with audio out ports. There are third-party products, but some of those are sketchy and others are expensive (some recent stereo receivers have AirPlay built in).

One solution would be to put a Chromecast Audio on the stereo system (CCAs still seem to be available from NewEgg and other suppliers). Some OS X applications can connect to a Chromecast directly (like Spotify) but you might need AirFoil or something similar to stream audio from other programs. I've tinkered with AirFoil on an old iMac and iirc it works well.

A Raspberry Pi can be configured as an AirPlay receiver, so that would be an even cheaper way to do it, albeit one requiring some labor-intensive set-up.

Used Airport Expresses are about $50 in the classifieds, and they work with all Mac audio (iTunes / Music as well as system sounds). Can be flaky if they're used to extend a wifi network but pretty solidly reliable for dedicated streaming.
Me, I use an old Mac Mini running iTunes controlled from the Apple Remote on my phone, and VNC screen sharing to access from other computers. My lossless collection fits on a 2TB external drive and I connect to a nice Vincent DAC using USB (or could do so with optical out).

CCAs still seem to be available from NewEgg

NewEgg is selling it for... $109!!

Aren't more and more amps, big and small, coming with DLNA/wifi streaming capabilities built-in? Surely there's a small, inexpensive wifi-capable amp that you can hook up a pair of speakers to.

AirPlay is definitely the way to go in an Apple ecosystem. I might give the raspberry pi thing a go. The decks, mixer speakers setup in my house could do with a better than bluetooth input but it’s not exactly HiFi

Sonos has caved: they’ll continue to update old devices (but not with new features) and will allow old devices to interoperate with new. And they’ve very sorry.

hmm .. not so sure they have caved.
from what i have read, you still cant have a set up with a mix of legacy and modern devices which is the biggest issue for most folks.

They say you can have that but it’s not exactly clear how, the way it’s written makes it sound like it will become two systems or something?

https://blog.sonos.com/en/a-letter-from-our-ceo/

We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state.

exactly, you will probably have to seperate legacy and modern into 2 distinct set ups.
which is the same as the original advise.
this is why folks are pissed off.

i suspect that Sonos have yet to work out the exact details, so folks will just have to wait and see i guess.

I'm not seeing any mention of the "recycle" (bricking) feature in all the Sonos news now. Can't even run a line-in to them when that's done? Just vile. Like to see them go back on that one.

I didn't realise Google had discontinued the Chromecast audio. That's madness.

― Ngolo Cantwell (Chinaski)

idk, that's kind of google isn't it?

" MP3s with a decent DAC

one negates the other

― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK)"

look, i'm not an audio nerd, is this really true? i've always took lossy degradation (which i don't really notice given a decent encode) and diminished sound quality from a poor DAC (which i do tend to notice) as entirely separate sorts of quality issues.

not true

about mp3 that is

Surely there's a small, inexpensive wifi-capable amp that you can hook up a pair of speakers to

one would think, but I'm not finding many products like this (with or without amplification) ... there's all kinds of cheap Bluetooth gear, but not much that uses wifi

the August WR320 is cheaper than a marked-up Chromecast Audio and looks like it does many of the same things

Just FYI Bluetooth is lossy

https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-know-about-bluetooth-3134591

^ more than I wanted to know about Bluetooth audio codecs

tl;dr newer Bluetooth devices handle compression better, but the Bluetooth signal is still compressed

in many cases it might not be possible to tell exactly what's happening, anyway:

Most Bluetooth audio products are built not by the company whose employees wear their brand, but by an original design manufacturer you've never heard of. And the Bluetooth receiver used in an audio product probably wasn't made by the ODM, but by yet another manufacturer. The more complex a digital product is, and if there are more engineers working on it, the more likely it is that no one knows everything about what's really going on inside the device. One format could easily be transcoded into another, and you'd never know it because almost no Bluetooth receiving device will tell you what the incoming format is.

This is on top of other factors affecting sound quality like the resolution of audio sources, the quality of DACs, the quality of speakers, the position of speakers, competing environmental noise, etc., etc.

this kind of shit would drive me crazy if I really wanted to optimize sound quality, but fortunately limitations of budget and hearing obviate that tendency

fwiw upthread, I am not trying to claim golden ear status and I'm sure a well encoded mp3 would sound far better through a well engineered DAC (the comment was facetious). But re compression algorithms, given the choice between lossless and lossy, in this age of massive storage and high bandwidth I can't fathom why anyone would accept the aesthetic / perceptual decisions made by some software engineer or consultant about what can and can't be heard, for the sake of a few MB of storage. All formats are flawed but deliberately throwing away part of the signal is just nuts to me. Give me a non-proprietary audio waveform that the artist approved as the final master, not some carefully constructed facsimile. If nothing else you can then encode it as needed for devices that need particular formats or have storage limitations. Bluetooth is the worst example for precisely the reasons stated above, plus with proprietary systems the people providing data about the compression are the same people who want you to buy the devices, so of course you're going to have their best assurances.

I feel like a chump for buying an ex-demo Sonos Connect just a few months back. I already had a Chromecast Audio but I don't recall being able to use it with Bandcamp or the NTS app, which I use quite heavily. The NTS archives are available on Mixcloud (which is supported) but I want the live streaming too.

Just picked up a second-hand Airport Express last gen. Thanks chaps. I had one before but it didn’t work that well - this one does. I don’t need multiroom so it’s exactly what I need.

Glad to hear it - that last gen is far better at streaming than the earlier models. I was a bit amazed by its measured quality, too -
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm
You can also do multiroom with them - just check as many output devices in iTunes / Music as you wish to stream to.

Digging around on Alibaba I found this

https://a.aliexpress.com/_s86sQP

Claims to be exactly what I want, a cheapo airplay receiver. Can’t vouch for the sound quality but at less than 40 Australian delivered seems worth a punt.

I've seen things like that on Amazon and the sound quality is said to be problematic.

I’ve rolled my own airplay receiver with a raspberry pi and a nice usb dac before. Already had the pi in the room for other nerd reasons, worked seamlessly

The recent revive prompted me to finally get a Chromecast Audio. Didn't realize until recently that it could output digital audio! Found one for just over retail and bought a miniTOSlink cable to go to this old receiver -- it sounds amazing, thanks! Does the grouping thing where it plays to multiple Chromecasts in sync work well?

I've heard it does, but I never use it myself.

Even if it's going for slightly more than it used to it's a good buy, the optical out is a great feature....IT WAS SUCH A GOOD DEVICE GOOGLE YOU ARE SO DUMB

I bought a Hifiberry DAC for $20, so my Raspberry Pi project is definitely happening.

A fool asks: with the digital output for the Chromecast Audio, would it need to be TOSlink to 3.5mm (ie, into the back of my amp)?

Chromecast audio can do analog or digital out from the same port. If you are going to an analog in 3.5mm on your amp, then you can use the regular 3.5-to-3.5 cord they include in the box. Or if you have digital optical in on your amp/DAC, they you can get this miniTOSlink (which is in the same shape as a 3.5mm normal plug) to TOSlink cord which fits in the optical port on an amp or DAC.

If I’m doing Airplay > Raspberry Pi > receiver, or Chromecast Audio > receiver, will putting a DAC between the Pi/Chromecast and receiver improve the sound at all?

chromecast has a dac, so you’d be doing double conversion. if you use the optical digital out, in theory you could put a dac in if your receiver doesn’t have optical

with the raspberry pi the dac you’d want would be either a usb soundcard or dac like the hifiberry ones that integrate directly with the board

if the Chromecast puts out a digital stream going into a DAC, it's not double conversion - that would be if the CC put out audio which was resampled (i.e. CC -> ADC -> DAC). It's using different converters to whatever cheap ones are in the Chromecast. For example I had a setup with an Airport Express going into analogue inputs on my receiver, and then I switched it to put out optical digital which was then converted in a much better standalone DAC. It looks the same from the "sending" end but the signal path is different and the conversion is better.

Does the grouping thing where it plays to multiple Chromecasts in sync work well?

yes, it's easy to set up and the sync is accurate

I use the optical out on the CCA into a DAC, works great

V happy with my Airport Express. Rock solid so far even when streaming video & downloading torrentz. And YouTube is in sync! The old AEs were like 1 second out iirc.

my turntable-> sonos woes might have been related to a mediocre pressing of a recent recording. I was doing an A/B comparison between the vinyl and a digital copy streamed directly in and it sounded crappy

the needle also might not have been clipped firmly into the stylus, so I can also blame human error!

So is there any point to this Sonos Radio?

This is kinda cool (Philip Glass made them a jingle): https://blog.sonos.com/en/sonic-branding-by-philip-glass/

Anyway, I just turned it on, the Indie Gold station, and it's playing Joy Division. We'll see.

This is... not good.

I’m scared that they’re trying to expand their offerings rather than honing their speaker product and selling more units tbh

this is how companies either lose the plot or end up tanking completely!

This
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21228460/sonos-radio-announced-features-streaming-music-date-price
says

Listeners will enjoy a stream of new, well-known, or rediscovered music, behind-the-scenes stories, as well as guest artist radio hours from the likes of Angel Olsen, JPEGMAFIA, Phoebe Bridgers, Jeff Parker (Tortoise), Vagabon, and more. Artist hosted radio hours, released every Wednesday, will start the stream of Sonos Sound System for a 60-minute radio show with music and commentary about inspiring artists, releases, and the host’s latest work.

hrrm

Hm is right

🤔

Sorry:
hrrm is right

In any case, their radio algorithms seem obviously inferior to any of the other ones I have encountered in the current era.

Oh crap, Sonos One SLs have gone back up to $179 from the $119 sale price. I guess I'll be waiting a while before I buy a pair.

i really love the move. It is better than the one and portable. If you are looking at a One and might want to move a speaker around, just get a move.

i also don't hate the radio. One advantage of sonos is certainly the source side options. The option to listen to their own radio streaming just adds to that.

alba, i tried posting that a minute after your post and got the warning. It wasn't a response. Definitely hold out for sales.

I've been making slow progress on my amateur Sonos-replacement Raspberry Pi project. I got the Pi to play an mp3 file through the Hifiberry DAC, using VLC. I also wrote a little script to copy music files from my PC to the Pi through FTP. Next step is to build a bare-bones web app that will let me control playback from my phone.

I've been making slow progress on my amateur Sonos-replacement Raspberry Pi project. I got the Pi to play an mp3 file through the Hifiberry DAC, using VLC. I also wrote a little script to copy music files from my PC to the Pi through FTP. Next step is to build a bare-bones web app that will let me control playback from my phone.

Any reason you wouldnt use an off the shelf solution like Volumio? seem to do most things you might need for a PI based audio streamer.

Ended up buying two Sonos 1s on a warehouse deal for not much more than the discounted SLs. Excited to have some decent sound again after years of putting up with having a Canton soundbar as the best 'hifi' in my home and the rest covered with Echos. Interested how they will compare with the sound of my budget separates system of old.

Also wondering how easy it is to combine control via Alexa and the Sonos app. And whether I'll be able to listen the BBC in stereo! Anyway, all this to be discovered in a few days.

They're pretty punchy and bassy sound-wise but also really detailed, I don't use mine as the main speakers in my house but they work well in the kitchen. Are you planning on having two in the same room?

Yeah - in a largeish living room. I miss having stereo sound!

Good move - in my experience one doesn't quite fill a big living room.

It's weird that their only subwoofer is so expensive. Would be great if they released a budget one too.

Any reason you wouldnt use an off the shelf solution like Volumio? seem to do most things you might need for a PI based audio streamer.

Mainly just because I wanted to tinker. Also, it looks like Volumio takes over the whole device, and I wanted to keep the Raspberry Pi with a regular Linux OS so I can do additional hobbyist projects on it if I'm so inclined.

i really love the move. It is better than the one and portable. If you are looking at a One and might want to move a speaker around, just get a move.

Yeah, I'm thinking of picking one up, if only to add some dimension of sound to different rooms. Pity you can't set up L/R splits between different models.

Still not clear why I should care about Sonos Radio. Between Spotify playlists and TuneIn for local stations, I'm sorted.

So I built my Raspberry Pi fake Sonos thing. It actually works! My requirements were basically:

- ability to easily transfer music to it from my PC, music is stored on the device, so PC doesn't need to be on for it to work (I just drag and drop a music folder to an icon on my desktop, and it transfers to the Pi)
- ability to control playback from my phone, so again PC doesn't need to be on
- music organized by artist and album, if I start playing the album, it should continue playing the whole album, etc
- the music webservice starts up on boot, so I can just plug it in. Also, I can shut it down from my phone, to make it safe to unplug

Sound quality is pretty good, though I'm wondering if I should have sprung for the more expensive Hifiberry model, now that I know it's something I'm going to use fairly often.

lol i'm trying to set up my new SONOS BEAM (bday present)

— the app won't download to my iphone (4s = too old and doesn't support)
— it does download to my laptop but the set-up procedure can't be undertaken from a laptop (needs a phone or an iPad)
— w/o the start-up procedure i can't register it and hence find it for other apps that could e.g. control it from my phone (e.g. possibly sonophone)

my BiL (who part-gave me the present) suggests connecting it via ethernet to my router and doing the start-up via the laptop as if it's just speakers -- we shall see if this works shortly

<3 this brave new world of effortless connectivity.

In a fit of trackerphobia I recently went into my google account and disabled all personalisation including 'Web and App Activity' which is described thusly:

Saves your activity on Google sites and apps, including associated information like location, to give you faster searches, better recommendations and more personalised experiences in Maps, Search and other Google services.

However it turns out that if you turn it off, Google Home integration with Sonos stops working.

xp Dang. Curious to know how you get on. My parents are getting on good with the Chromecast Audios I got them... but a big wrinkle with those is you have to use the mobile Spotify app to start playing on them (and then you could, conceivably, queue up tracks on a laptop).

Still on Logitech Server ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

definitely not working -- i'm not even sure what's meant to work, i need to create a sonos system (i.e. register) before i can add this beam and it's not letting me do that yet (bcz my otger tec is too ancient or just not able to do it)

Not shocked they would straight up require a recent mobile device. Yuck. Maybe you could borrow one to get it to a usable state?

exactly what i'm thinking yes

or lol upgrade my phone :0

Like I think it's that over your network gear. I'm sure a lot of people run these on ancient ISP-provided router modems

my router's actually fairly recent, talktalk sent me an upgrade not long ago

the only thing I had an issue with when setting up some Sonos equipment was that my wireless access point at the time broadcast on both 2.4GHz and 5GHz and I had them separated because devices capable at connecting to the higher speed were stuck on the other when I only had one wireless name

I don’t think this is mark’s issue, sadly. But if you do run into this,if you can install the app but you can’t see the devices when they join to the network, it might be because you’ve actually got a separated network.

Maffew - the one way around having to use your mobile is to use the web player through Chrome and cast from there. You can control from the desktop app then. Still a fiddle arse, but takes the mobile out of the equation.

Anyone else using a free Google Play Music account for storing/streaming your personal library, and trying to figure out what to do now that it's shutting down over the next few months? I did the auto library transfer to YouTube Music, but only paid accounts can be added to Sonos at the moment. One Google rep said that free accounts are coming to Sonos, but if that's true I suspect it'll have ads based on my tryout of the YouTube Music app.

If I end up having to pay for a streaming service, YT Music probably wouldn't be my first choice -- but do any of the other ones offer easy storage of and access to your own library? I use a Mac and the Music app for local storage, but remember lots of horror stories about libraries getting badly messed up when Apple Music was first introduced. Are those issues a thing of that past? My library has been trouble-free and perfectly organized/tagged for years and I don't want to throw that all away.

I know I could just leave my computer on 24/7 or set up a NAS, but would prefer some sort of cloud solution. Mostly interested in my own library, but if I have to pay for something I suppose access to millions of other songs would be a nice bonus.

Ugh, just realized that I rely on a Chromecast Audio/Google Play Music for my outdoor speakers. Between library storage and Chromecast support, paid YT Music might end up being the best solution. Anyone using it?

I use / pay for / enjoy YT music (and did the transfer of all the stuff I had uploaded to GPM), though I don’t use Sonos or have your other considerations.

I feel like Tuomas has some thoughts on this

ok, i concede defeat.
the Sonos Pindrop/Electronica 'station' has become my default setting.
i suspect it's a simple case of randomly playing anything in the Sonos library with electronic as a metadata tag.
no dj chat, a couple of ads/idents here and there.
love it.

I got a Move for my birthday and have found it surprisingly useful. Of course it's great to take outside (where the wifi still reaches, surprisingly) and it's a stellar bluetooth speaker for places outside the home. Additionally, around the house it's useful to beef up the sound in the couple of rooms where I have only one Sonos speaker.

I agree. The Move is great.

If I wanted to buy just a single, good-sounding speaker to move around the house and stream YT Music, etc., would that be the one to get?

If you have or plan to have other sonos speakers, yes. I haven't used any other portable speakers with both wifi/bluetooth, so maybe there are other good options. But we use it as our kitchen sonos speaker for when we broadcast music in multiple spaces with sonos speakers, and grab it on our way out the door for outside listening. It's certainly the best in that context.

Thanks. I noticed Google has a new “Nest Audio”; I wonder how that sounds compared to Sonos (you can buy two for stereo, as with Sonos One, and it’s half the price).

...according to a few reviews I just checked out, I guess not as good.

For $100 the Sonos-compatible Ikea Symfonisk bookshelf speaker seems like a pretty great deal. They can be paired for stereo too.

In looking for a Google Play Music replacement over the past few weeks I've been seeing a lot of comments suggesting that YouTube Music integration with Sonos isn't ideal at the moment though, so if that's your primary music source you might want to check that the features you use are supported through the Sonos app before going that route.

Huh, thanks.

Am I right to be aggravated they have this whole second line of speakers that aren’t compatible with the older ones?

Yeah, they backed themselves into a corner with their hardware design. I was lucky enough not to get bit, how bad is it for you, just one or two speakers or more?

What is it about their design? I thought they were just being jerks. The bad press around them is enough to make me stay away from any sort of speaker(s) I can't fully control..... For that matter the powered speakers I got for my parents that had to be returned twice have me convinced to do all separates in whatever systems I set up.

I want the Five but it’s not one that they put on Black Friday sale :(

My (discontinued) Apple Express works extremely well - I believe it was this thread that convinced me to get it, so - thank you. It just connects straight to my stereo. I select it from the Airplay menu, or devices, in whatever I'm using. I like it so much I have another one in a box in the crawl space just in case this one dies.

looks like i will be sticking to my S1 generation Connect, as the replacement Port device offers absolutely nothing extra in functionality.
especially now that i have cracked the cause as to why when listening to certain 320 mp3s, the audio signal coming out of the Connect was distorted/clipping badly.
subsequently, my audio set up has never sounded so good and from the reports/feedback on the Sonos forums implies that the Port makes little difference in SQ.

anyone have an Arc and want to share their experience?

Sonos upgraded the chips inside their speakers to support new features, improve performance, etc. They designated these as 'S2' speakers that work with the S2 app. You can still use the S1 speakers and app, but if you want to use S1 and S2 speakers in the same system, you lose some functionality.

This is the downside of buying an active/all-in-one speaker - the hardware will only take you so far, and in fact you risk it becoming completely useless after some number of years. Like my 'smart' Samsung TV from 2012 - I had to add a Roku stick to replace the no-longer-supported streaming apps.

I have active Audioengine speakers in my living room and they've been rock solid, but if the internal amp goes, so goes the speaker. It's a risk I'm willing to take for a cleaner installation.

I got off topic a bit. There's stuff breaking down (that can probably be repaired) and then there's impenetrable black boxes that stop working when the company wants them to...

that's a bit unfair. they also come in white.

iirc S1 got shitcanned because they had a hardware vendor for chips that they couldn't grow past

I got a bunch of S1 speakers back in 2013 and a Connect once I moved into a house that had some built in speakers. I’d generally been really happy with the system as I thought Sonos had done a good job to that point.

First they nailed the wireless connectivity—who would want WiFi speakers that dropped out all the time?—and then they hired a bunch of engineers away from Bose (both in the Boston area) to improve their speaker design. I even did some bug testing for them for a bit.

It seems they’ve turned a corner however. The sense I get is that their new-ish CEO is trying to “grow” the business by trying to get existing customers to upgrade their existing speakers. So they made a new series of speakers that do just enough differently that they need new hardware to do it. I find that kind of obnoxious and disappointing as the company had a killer product.

I think the original ceo got burned, missing out on all the data monetization built into the google/amazon products. The slight upgrades are more a symptom of that "mistake" than a new desire for forced upgrades.

Also why they are offering a premium radio. I think they recognize the need to be more than hardware now (to have a stock price growth story).

This thread is highly relevant to my interests, seriously trying to decide between various wireless speaker options right now (or just not getting one at all and setting up a proper stereo). My sense is that Sonos has fallen victim to internet of everything bullshit and planned obsolescence. But I don't know what makes a good alternative, esp since I refuse to get anything with Alexa or Google built in.

I honestly think the planned obsolescence stuff is unfair in the sense that its fallout from the growth path they've taken. I don't think it's some planned printer ink shit. They want you to sign up for their radio and skim your data from other services?

i.e. the obsolescence came from playing catch up, and they hopefully are caught up now. The wireless, bluetooth (move), and sound design os very good.

I mean whether it's a deliberate dick move on their part or not, it just makes me hesitant to drop $1000 on a pair of sonos 5's that might no longer be supported in 5-8 years.

sure. I guess possible acquistion should be another worry.

setting up a proper stereo

I'm way more audiophile than the avg ilxor, so I would vote for this.

You can always add a wireless speaker to the "proper stereo" later on if you wanted that functionality.

I've used Logitech Media Server for years. You can use whatever you like as a wifi speaker. There's a tiny Raspberry Pi operating system dedicated to it (though my players mainly run off of old laptops and phones). I used to hesitate recommending it but this year i started using the "Material Skin" plugin which has done a lot to modernize the interface. There's still a good community working on it. Keeping Spotify and things working basically depends on those efforts.. but you run your own server (can be done on a Pi or computer) and it's not going to go away, or change without your input.

Basically Logitech was an early player in wifi speakers and got out of it (no more hardware is produced). The server was made open source so community development continues, with one engineer at Logitech.

Sorry for being dim but when you say use “whatever you like as a wifi speaker” how do you make the connection to a regular speaker? Some kind of dongle on the back?

Or if you’re you’re specifically talking about some class of non-Sonos speaker, can you give an example?

We have Sonos all over the house, purchased in pieces over the last 5 years or so. So far, they've all been good, give or take some bugginess now and then. I'm no audiophile, so the sound is good enough for me, though not perfect.

Alba: no no, please, i'm wondering if i am able to make this stuff sound practical! It is for me but I like tinkering and not throwing away electronics. There are many variants of the tiny "squeezelite" program for all sorts of computers, so anything from a phone to a desktop computer can be the hookup for your amp/speakers. Basically like a Roku for a non-"smart" TV.

Unfortunately the community wiki page is out of date, so it's not going to mention the Material Skin and stuff, but it should still be useful to get a picture of what I'm on about. https://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Beginners_Guide.html

I'd ignore any mention there of Logitech's cloud service as it's basically just some streaming radio links at this point. You will want one of your devices running the server software - it can also be a player. If starting from scratch, a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 is fine as a server. I'm using an 8 year old laptop hooked up to my living room system as the server. It stays on so that any player in the house can always access the music.

If I somehow haven't talked you out of having a go, I'd say grab the server software from https://www.mysqueezebox.com/download , optionally point it at a folder full of MP3s, and explore the plugin options for internet music once it's running.

The Squeezelite player software for computers is at https://sourceforge.net/projects/lmsclients/files/squeezelite/ (any other devices, have a Google or search the relevant app store).

For controlling, the Material Skin is great on computers and phones (no more need for installing certain Android or iOS apps).

Forums are at https://forums.slimdevices.com/ ... not much use before getting started, though there's photos of systems and projects and all that

I decided after several years of Sonos envy that I was not going to jump into that ecosystem because I didn't want to drop all the money on all the components for a distributed system in one go and the recent hardware swapout made me feel that that was the only viable path to join since there was no longer a guarantee or expectation that I could build out a system over 2-3 years and then my parents sent me a pair of One SL speakers for Christmas, so now I am looking at a subwoofer and TV soundbar because fuck it, you got me

For the regular stereo advocates: what sort of component do you recommend for translating from your iPhone/streaming devices to the stereo? Or do most receivers nowadays have that functionality built in?

Try a basic 3.5mm to RCA stereo adapter with the phone's volume on max. If it's a newer one with no headphone jack, you can use the lightning to 3.5mm dongle as an intermediary. Fancier receivers with USB audio input (as opposed to a USB socket for reading flash drives) may be able to take the raw data stream from the phone and then use the receiver's audio processing.

Or yknow, Bluetooth? :)

I mention this every time, but you can still find Chromecast Audios online it basically gives me sonos functionality for what I need

for like $80 for two

Where can you find them now? I got a couple for my parents, they were a great value. If you're just looking to play internet music to a system (or systems), yeah they can't be beat. The audio quality is good and if you ever want an upgrade in that regard, the port doubles as an optical audio out.

Isn't Bluetooth lossy in a way that Sonos isn't suppposed to be(?) And if you jack yr phone directly into a stereo, you need to keep walking over to the rig to make adjustments?

(I was a big stereo guy, but finally ditched it after barely having a chance to use it for years; and I'm leaning toward Sonos as a small step back in, for size/ease reasons -- but can be convinced otherwise)

yeah, though AptX or LDAC Bluetooth are really good. It's possible they can be better than a wire, depending on the audio processing of the data source vs the receiver.

Wiring in and controlling remotely, something like Spotify's Connect feature can be used to tell other devices to play the music to the phone.

Chromecast Audio or Sonos or the Logitech Server, your phone is telling those to go and get the music, so it doesn't matter then where your phone moves to.

I guess i like the Logitech thing so that Spotify is just another source... i can insert tracks from it among my own files, other services, whatever. All one interface. And when the playlist stops, it can turn on NTS or whatever. You know, endless tinkering

Would be happy to try and answer "i just wanna do x" scenarios

I just wanna have great sound with as minimal fuss and as few components / small a footprint as possible; for streaming from wherever, and ideally a way to plug in a CD player and turntable (when I own those again).

Yeah, that's exactly what I want. But I guess the fact that there will always be a ___ to RCA or ____ to 3.5mm adapter no matter what new devices come out helps.

xpost..
ebay though they might be a bit more expensive now

I run mine via optical to a DAC then stereo amp, does 192 Qobuz great

Curious about Bluesound Node multi room systems, Sonos gives me such Bose/Beats by Dre vibes it makes my teeth itch

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Google-Chromecast-Audio-Media-Streamer-Black/114089304887?epid=217053957&hash=item1a9040a337:g:dnYAAOSwx-9Wtzhe

It seems like I need to focus more on the stereo I want and then figure out the "how to connect x to stereo" as the last step.

i’ve said it here before but a second-hand Airport Express (second gen) connected to the AUX jack on my stereo works fantastically for me. i could put a second one upstairs, connected to some powered speakers, but i don’t think i’ve ever wanted or needed to send music to other floors of the house so eh

I've basically gone the all-separates route here (my speakers use an Amptastic Mini 1... RCA in, speaker out, the end - but it's tiny!) along with a basic 8 input RCA switcher (non-powered)...

But I'll have a look later on at what i might get if I went all in one. I know there's some super high end stuff that comes "Roon Ready" but that is some high priced Logitech Server type thing that I'm just not going near.

man alive just buy the chromecast, that does exactly what you want. you're not streaming from your phone either, the device does the streaming. it goes direct in to any stereo and you just connect and control via whatever music streaming service it's so simple

that was xps to morrisp

Nice source, thanks ums!

Back later :)

i wonder if Google will ever stop supporting this discontinued product though?

so far so good

thankfully they are still making chromecasts in general (that do video and audio) and it seems to use the same interface (CCA just doesn't do video) so hopefully that should continue

I don't think any of this streaming audio tech is exactly rocket science at this point

ooh also though I have an Android phone so I guess I should say idk how it works on iphone but I can steam to the Chromecast from my macbook just fine

thanks to both. yeah, I don't want to go all high-end, either (needs to be reasonably $$)

ums otm about Chromecast Audio; that product delivered far too much value for its price point to stay on the market long ... I have a couple of CCAs attached to stereo receivers in different rooms and enjoy being able to play music from Spotify or my Plex server on both simultaneously

I use my iPhone with the CCAs and that works fine ... maybe once a month or so I have to reboot a device; ordinarily I just turn on the stereo, tell Spotify or Plex to send audio there, and control it with my phone

if I didn't have an old-fashioned stereo system with a decent audio receiver and speakers but I did have a home theater system with a decent audio receiver and speakers, I might buy the current-model Chromecast for ~$30 and use that to play Spotify and other streaming audio services ... it might seem a little weird to turn on the TV to listen to music, but the audio quality would be fine, and seeing album cover art on the big screen is kind of fun

respect to maffew12 for making Logitech Media Server continue to serve; I loved my Squeezeboxes, which worked beautifully for years, but keeping LMS on good terms with Spotify got beyond my tinkering skills after a while

I'm still using my Chromecast Audio and it works perfectly. Side question: can I stream my television audio to it, or sou,d I need a soundbar/separate speaker?

I just did a test, playing a YouTube video on my Chromebook and casting sound to the Chromecast Audio on my receiver ... the audio played on my big speakers and the video played on the Chromebook

but I don't believe there's a way to send a video signal to your television and split off the audio portion of that signal to go to a Chromecast

lol thanks Brad. It was a hard thing to recommend when Spotify was half busted, the user interface looked like 1995, and phone control required its own app (all it was really good for was organizing of your own files), but these have really come along.

morrisp:
I was curious to look at some all-in-one receivers (you just add speakers and any physical media sources). Criteria:
-Stereo (not surround)
-Built-in preamp for a turntable
-Decent headphone output
-Some internet capability (basically, can it be a player in Spotify Connect)
-HDMI ports (easily hook up a TV and, say, a Raspberry Pi, this way you wouldn't have to buy a fancy audio processor for the Pi)
-Bluetooth
-a few analog audio inputs besides

Just getting all that done decently well...
What's coming up on a few sites is the Marantz NR1200. 600 US dollars. It's not the good Bluetooth but that's minor if you are doing internet streaming mainly. Can't turn up any info on running fancy headphones off of it, but probably is fine for anything that isn't very high power. I'm kinda surprised to see all those features at that price from one of the bigger hifi brands.

re “streaming from wherever”.. i tried using, gulp, plex to handle my music and plexamp on my phone and.... it’s pretty great?? no way to export my itunes playlists that i can see but it does give you some default playlists based on i.e. record label, recently added etc. it also remembers playback position!

wherever you are, for your files, yeah. I read morrisp as saying streaming from whatever sources, to a living room situation?

I've got Plex going (same old laptop as the Logitech stuff) but just for video. I'm not going to get into the unspeakable things I do for out of the house. I hope I've been some use today lol

yes i think you're right about that. once nice thing about the plex server is that it can run alongside whatever else you're using (if you want) - you just point it to your Big Folder Full Of All Your Music and it will deal with it

man alive, listen to ums.

also, maffew12 is right that a lot newer integrated amps have DAC's included (DAC = the thing that processes a digital signal like from Spotify to something your amp can send to your speakers). Another option is the NAD C 328. Not sure it has the HDMI, but its got optical out.

Same price as the Marantz; both respected budget companies.

I read morrisp as saying streaming from whatever sources, to a living room situation?

That is what I meant... thanks, guys.

xp
ooh sleek. No internet and no turntable preamp though. Sounds like it has the nicer headphone amp section.

Anything that is receiving and playing digital music for you by necessity has a DAC. This NAD amp is giving you just the DAC to play with, without any built-in source for it to play anything... which is really what an audiophile would want (if not a separate DAC device). Without HDMI there, your laptop or Pi or whatnot would need something added onto it to pass audio data as optical or coaxial digital to the NAD's DAC. Chromecast audio can do this, and some Macbooks... otherwise you're looking at another pricey piece to add on. I guess optical has its advantages over HDMI or USB but that's just a bridge too far for me...

Though these amps sound pretty impressive for their price (from what I remember last time I looked), you can get pretty killer speaker amps, headphone amps, and DACs for $100 US apiece these days.

reminder that a used Airport Express, while not much chop as an access point or network extender, can receive a lossless stream from any Apple gear including a phone / iPad and put it out as optical digital or 3.5 audio (of great fidelity, in the case of the last model: https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm )

Yeah, lack of an optical audio out was a huge surprise when I got my newer Apple TV a year ago. My older one had that.

almost all the new receivers do hdmi arc now, and they just don't decide to care about compatibility w/other stuff

I have zero Atmos-capable speakers but I'm still mildly irritated the weak link in my TV -> TV -> Sonos Amp scheme is the TV. I think the ARC stuff over HDMI has to support the specific passthrough type?

I wound up buying a Sonos Move because I wanted to be able to listen to music in multiple rooms as well as outside without spending thousands on a multi room speaker setup. It’s honestly pretty good. Obviously it’s not going to do what a great stereo system does but it has more of the depth of a real speaker than any portable I’ve heard and a lot of clarity. Way better than any Bose garbage

last sentence should be Sonos' tag

does anybody actually have Bluesound? it's made by the same people that make NAD which seems interesting. certainly looks slick and has most of the streaming services integrated.

No direct experience, but in the audiophile forums I follow (to some degree) they are frequently cited as very good products to use as a music server (as DAC/streamer for Spotify, etc. and as a file server/streamer for mp3s, flacs, and other files). At higher ends, most use an outboard DAC but continue to use the Bluesound as the streamer.

No idea if Sonos or Google is chiefly to blame but the Google Assistant integration is pretty bad. We have two speakers and a chromecast on our network and you when you ask one of the speakers to play music it says "I'm sorry I can't do that here" so you always have to say 'hey google play music ON SONOS'. If you ask it to play a song it often plays a cover or other weird version that is absolutely not in the top search results on Spotify. It doesn't do volume normalising, you can't ask it to shuffle. And the sensitivity is rubbish, sometimes you have to ask it three times, sometimes it makes the 'i'm listening' bleeps when you've said something that doesn't sound anything like 'hey google'.

I decided after several years of Sonos envy that I was not going to jump into that ecosystem because I didn't want to drop all the money on all the components for a distributed system in one go and the recent hardware swapout made me feel that that was the only viable path to join since there was no longer a guarantee or expectation that I could build out a system over 2-3 years and then my parents sent me a pair of One SL speakers for Christmas, so now I am looking at a subwoofer and TV soundbar because fuck it, you got me

Best Buy gave me a 10% discount for my birthday so I now have a Sonos surround system set up ^_^

My Squeezebox 2 stopped working when I dusted it, so I bought a new power supply and it's back up and running... I stockpiled a few remotes a couple years ago, but I probably need to look into buying a couple used Squeezebox Touches to preserve the viability of my ecosystem

Huzzah!

You can probably get sorted on https://forums.slimdevices.com

i got my first hardware players last year (two Radios) but having physical buttons for this whole fuss not really such a big deal... my use of this stuff will probably outlive the gadgets.

they pop up on eBay with some frequency for around $100 (generally missing the remote and power cord)... there are many options for building RasPi-based Touch clones, but the parts for those still cost more than a used Touch

There was a big lot on the forum recently. A lot of users seem to offer up there before resorting to eBay.

I spend a lot of time there messing with server plugins but I've never checked out the marketplace threads... thanks!

oh yeah what are your favorite plugins? I've pretty much stopped tinkering.

I'm continually trying to get my weather plugins to keep working, and I use Spotty to stream from Spotify of course, also some that let me customize the album lists more to my liking (studio albums by year, then compilations, then live albums by year)

my dream was a weather plugin that would play the song of my choice when the NWS issued a severe weather warning for my area

hahaha. You're probably on the right track.

In Newfoundland that would interrupt my tunes too much.

now, all the same, and in the absence of any kind of push alert to your serving system, you could have a script that asks the weather service for alerts on your area, every x minutes, and if there is one, have the script send terminal commands to LMS to play a certain file (on every player, top volume, if you're so inclined). LMS only needs to come at the end of this, is what I'm saying. All i do with terminal commands is do some basic stuff with keyboard shortcuts. it's handy

DJP which one did you go for, Beam or Arc?

Arc, to go with the 75” tv

I also have arc+sub+2 1s

I set the surrounds to 'full' mode instead of 'ambient' for music, destroying any remnant audiophile bonafides. I am free now.

If you’ve tried it, how is the Arc alone for music? Like, is it as least as good as a stereo pair of Ones? I’ve been trying to talk myself into one and could more easily justify it if it could double as my home office sound system.

My Sonos app on the iphone is sort of glitchy -- it often lags heavily and/or doesn't display what's actually being played. The way it integrates spotify is also a little awkward and navigation can be confusing.

Ultimately, I like the Move, but I don't see myself ever going to a house-wide Sonos system. Most likely I think I'll eventually get a Sonos receiver that I can connect to a regular stereo, and then we can use the Move as an auxiliary speaker for outside or other rooms of the house while music is playing on the main stereo, as well as using it as a stand-alone.

that sounds like a good plan.

xp I haven't listened to the arc alone for music. I can give it a try tomorrow. I think the two Ones likely give you a better stereo image. I replaced two play:5s, and this was the most obvious difference. For clarity, if you get the arc, you won't use the Ones as surrounds?

Our beam serves as our living room/kitchen streamer when tv is off, brilliant sound

I think I prefer two play:1s spaced further apart over the arc alone for stereo music. The arc w/ surrounds is great for music, though.

my living room setup is a sonos amp connected to my paradigm stereo speakers I have had for some time, a monoprice sub as well. I stuck two play:1 speakers on the built-in shelves behind me and it works well!

I guess for the classic arrangement I lack a center channel, but I sit off-center a lot of the time
so...

maybe I stick a soundbar under the tv for that?