Bodak Yellow is:

Also a thread to discuss Cardi B and attendant cultural issues as they appear to be metastasizing boardwide just lately

can i use this thread to instead rage against “meh”

rage against the mehchine

oh cool

what are the attendant cultural issues?

I just voted Not a Good Song because it's not a good song, but I care very little about the larger cultural implications people are arguing about. I just hate trap.

what are the attendant cultural issues?

― crüt, Monday, December 25, 2017 11:15 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

+1

"I'm rich, fuck you" songs in the age of Trump.

I've heard it a few times, all in the context of year-end playlists, and it has never left any impression on me. So, meh.

Bodak Yellow wil be #2

In our poll or in P&J?

"I'm rich, fuck you" songs in the age of Trump.

― Johnny Fever, Monday, December 25, 2017 11:19 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's the argument? saying that i'm rich fuck you songs are any different while trump is around affords him way too much respect.

well this is rather charmless

It's a great song, not song of the year. Then again, I have no idea what other song could be song of the year. (As a parenthetical, I might vote for It Ain't Me for sentimental reasons). The force of the song is just undeniable. Who she is helps but it's also incredibly muscular and ruthless in its movement from A to B. But who she is is the point.

Just the sheer chutzpah of a Top 1 song talking about bank tellers asking who tf you are.

It feels like an outsider song and it feels like an explosion and her "rich" doesn't sound rich, it sounds like affording to live.

I wanna hear what other people have as their song of the year in this thread to be honest

I might spring for "Disco Tits" by Tove Lo, it didn't make any numbers but goddamn did it give those boys some fun on the dance floor

First time hearing and, holy hell, that was about the most boring thing I've heard in quite some time.

It's pretty much a textbook example of why I stopped listening to hiphop a decade and a half ago. And, considering that so little evolution -indeed, seemingly none at all- has taken place, I miss nothing.

Thanks for your input, Austin

Voted "Terrible Song" by the way.

My pick for my favorite song of the year would either be something off the King Krule or the Nick Hakim albums from this year.

lol

what are the attendant cultural issues?

― crüt, Monday, December 25, 2017 11:15 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

+1

― call all destroyer, Monday, December 25, 2017 8:18 PM (one hour ago)

i was having trouble grasping some of the issues others were bringing up but i'm starting to understand and am now trying to avoid defaulting to obtuse defensiveness whenever people criticize or otherwise bemoan the song. here are bits of some posts in another thread that got me thinking a bit more, not just about the song itself but about other developments in pop...:

They took a beloved celeb & had her do the 30th no flocking freestyle over Asap ferg “work” beat & gave it a million dollar rollout which is more than they’d invest in any female artist famous for u know creativity or style or innovation or anything beyond charisma & the masses of lames who get their rap marching orders from rap caviar decided it was the best female rap record ever made or something. Boring

...

She’s been hugely famous before she had a recording career. Was the obvious breakout star on love & hip hop & iirc appeared on fader before she’d even recorded a mixtape. She was a significant instagram celeb before reality tv. ... She got a million dollar deal at Atlantic when no other female rappers are getting deals at that level, because she was a proven star. ... it’s unquestionable that labels thought she was a better bet than literally any other rapper bc she was already a proven public personality
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40)

labels are even more into signing people with already existing celebrity these days even if it’s more “notoriety” than anything else. the whole “let the police reports act as the one sheets” wave, bhad bhabie, etc. i know i know pia zadora put out albums too but there’s something much more craven about this edition of it

― maura

I voted for Okay, and I meant #2 on ILX, but it was a joking ref to fkappy bird on another thread + my own baseless hunch that traxx wd come down to this & DNA

(Though I believe lex had it as his #2 single of the year)

A lot of criticisms in this thread feel really weird imo

fyi there are no attendant cultural issues u can just decide whether you like the song or not

i voted great and my feelings on it roughly align with map's even if i know deep down it's not ~really~ an outsider song or w/e

and yes part of its appeal is that "she" (aka she + the label machinery) managed a meteoric rise from a position that it's safe to say most don't particularly respect (stripper/'instathot')

Meh. Nice to see a female rapper hit #1, but I don't find the song particularly compelling and I'm not otherwise invested in her as a personality.

(I don't find it compelling as a piece of music, I should say.)

i am not really bothered by the perhaps-excessive attention this song has commanded in the recent year-end lists, but it does bug me that the majority of accompanying writeups, even from outlets that ordinarily pretend not to care about such things, make sure to mention its most distinctive chart feat, i.e. that it's the first solo female rapper #1 since 1998 when lauryn hill did it. (and i wonder if they would even bother mentioning it if someone less respected than lauryn had been the last.)

i'm a charts nut myself but really, when you wanna write about how great you supposedly think a song is, you should really write about the song!

Annoying

i only ever remember the first 2 lines of this song... i think it's pretty good but otherwise overrated. as far as new york hits the last several years i like it less than "hot n*gga," "ooouuu," "milly rock," a boogie "my shit" etc

c'mon 'bodak yellow' is better than 'my shit'

'ooouu' seems like a good comparison; loved it last year but couldn't remember how it sounded until i put it on just now, mayyy not recall bodak a year from now lol

As someone who doesn’t live in the US the only exposure I can get to Bodak Yellow must be self inflicted. I’ve listened to it 5 times since October and I don’t have the faintest clue why it’s so popular in the US. I still don’t remember a single thing about it nor am I inclined to listen to it another time.

A year from now you’ll all be joinining me as noone will remember this forgettable piece of trap.

lol @ 'self inflicted'

i don't really listen to this type of music, but i feel like it doesn't stand out from what little i've heard. and while i found it pretty catchy (and occasionally striking, like when she rapped about her vagina) it also seemed kind of flat. i would rather just listen to gangsta boo, trina, remy ma, etc etc etc instead. maybe i'm just old. actually i know i'm old, and that's the ultimate old person stance to take a new music. whatever, i voted ok song.

also flopson and call all destroyer otm i think.

i know the artists i named have different styles from cardi b (and each other) so i don't mean to draw too strong a comparison. just naming some artists that appeal to me more. it sounds like from what people are saying here she has this huge personality but it doesn't really come through for me in this song.

i am curious

She’s been hugely famous before she had a recording career. Was the obvious breakout star on love & hip hop & iirc appeared on fader before she’d even recorded a mixtape. She was a significant instagram celeb before reality tv. ... She got a million dollar deal at Atlantic when no other female rappers are getting deals at that level, because she was a proven star. ... it’s unquestionable that labels thought she was a better bet than literally any other rapper bc she was already a proven public personality
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40)

how does this work? is she like super-good at social media or something?

She was a pro stripper & Instagram girl who was hugely popular & conveyed tons of personality thru online video before getting picked up for love & hip hop, which propelled her even higher cuz she was such an obvious star & also kind of outspoken

This thing went viral, where she tells off Peter gunz (yes that Peter gunz)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4023vn

fwiw I find her pretty likeable, the notion that she’s somehow the best female rapper out & should be deified as an artist ultimately sells short hip hop as an art form imo, in order to prop her up

She was a pro stripper & Instagram girl who was hugely popular & conveyed tons of personality thru online video before getting picked up for love & hip hop, which propelled her even higher cuz she was such an obvious star & also kind of outspoken

This thing went viral, where she tells off Peter gunz (yes that Peter gunz)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4023vn

fwiw I find her pretty likeable, the notion that she’s somehow the best female rapper out & should be deified as an artist ultimately sells short hip hop as an art form imo, in order to prop her up

Damn double post

haha lol he got roasted

As someone who doesn’t live in the US the only exposure I can get to Bodak Yellow must be self inflicted. I’ve listened to it 5 times since October and I don’t have the faintest clue why it’s so popular in the US. I still don’t remember a single thing about it nor am I inclined to listen to it another time.

haha, this is v otm - it takes some effort to follow the US scene in this regard

a song as forgettable as Black Beatles for me

black beatles >>>>> bodak yellow

yeah I hear a lot of rap out (not in usa) & haven't heard this song until now, when I'm streaming it chez moi. looks like it hit #70 on the chart here. usa rap does fine here, "black beatles" hit #2.

im not at all surprised its popular, its built on the gulf between rap smashes & pop smashes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE_-obgiWm0

and the fact that a massive portion of the population has no idea what this song is, and another smaller portion (though still huge... 123 million views huge) treated it as one of the most important songs of the last 5 years

not putting myself through reading the shitty opinions on this thread, this song is great

back in march 2016 a basically-unknown female rapper from Texas named Asian Doll flipped her own freestyle version of that song & it went viral among hip hop / soundcloud / youtube teens, setting off a bunch of female rap imitators & launching her mainly underground career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU2-XKlKoEw

im not saying this to delegitimize cardi b or this song or whatever, ppl can like it all they want, just think this context puts the hyperbole in perspective ... ppl can of course love pop songs by charismatic stars which lift from less well known auteurs (sometimes i do in spite of this) to me its hard to take it out of the dispiriting sense of nyc trend hopping & claiming the crown for it

based on a comprehensive listen to the EOY traxnoms, ppl should be listening to rico nasty over cardi b

I prefer her bit in "Motor Sport"

A little catchy, and I like her slow “cuttaaaaa...niggaaaaaaa...” delivery. It’s okay.

I see it’s one of those “the title has fuckall to do with the song” kinda songs.

she's def got personality especially compared to 21 Savage who is a black hole of charisma

I voted "great" because I liked it the first time I heard it and I haven't gotten tired of it yet. I actually like it better than "No Flockin," but I also like that she named it in tribute (and also made a ton of money for Kodak Black). I like her new one too.

Fwiw in re its popularity my wife, at best a casual hip-hop fan, loves it. Maybe Cardi's voice and persona help put across trap fundamentals to people they would otherwise bounce off -- which means trap fundamentalists roll their eyes, along with people who don't like trap at all.

the first solo female rapper #1 since 1998 when lauryn hill did it

This factoid surprised me mainly because I would've figured Missy had a couple. But "Work It" only got to #2. Robbed.

Kinda reminds me of the Cash Me Outside girl. Does she rap yet? Is she part of this discourse?

Answering own question:

labels are even more into signing people with already existing celebrity these days even if it’s more “notoriety” than anything else. the whole “let the police reports act as the one sheets” wave, bhad bhabie, etc. i know i know pia zadora put out albums too but there’s something much more craven about this edition of it

― maura

lol

Eh, I think that kind of reading is selling her short. Cardi may or may not have staying power, but she's gotten where she is on her own chutzpah.

Good song, with several memorable lines, and it's awesome to see the videos of crowds shouting the words, but I still feel like the year-end dominance is more a reaction to her inspiring-as-hell overarching arc, not so much to the actual song.

I think it's fair to wonder if Bodak would've topped year-end lists if the song didn't reach #1 on the charts (unseating Taylor Swift, no less)

at the very least this is a fun song and she's an engaging personality and has a good way of rapping imo and if i started a list of "what's wrong w. popular music and/or hip hop in 2017" she'd be about 10,000th on the list

I think the reason it’s twken off with fans of female rappers is obvious: there aren’t too many female rappers actively making good songs engaged with the culture who’ve been invested in to the extent that is true of male rappers

I can complain all day (and do) that Post Malone (worse than cardi) is topping the charts instead of artists i think are better and more original creative etc but to some extent you have to think, this is what America wants

W cardi I feel like the disparity between female rappers being taken seriously and the one who gets the biggest platform for crossover artists is almost certainly not accidental but by design... and that her rarity (to people who don’t pay attention to the genre closely ie most people) means she ends up on the receiving end of the audience’s enthusiasm bc there’s no one else there

(But of course there are artists there; people just don’t know about them)

This thing went viral, where she tells off Peter gunz (yes that Peter gunz)

oh, THAT Peter gunz

It's funny how some people get annoyed by reading things like that referring to people they don't know... I'm always intrigued and just use google..

This thing went viral, where she tells off Peter gunz (yes that Peter gunz)

haha amazing...what ever happened to Cory Gunz? i suppose his closest brush with fame was when Shaq did his "Kobe, tell me how my ass taste" freestyle at one of his shows

btw was not familiar w/Asian Doll and she's probably a "better" rapper in ways than Cardi but at the same time let's not pretend there's not an energy and catchiness to "Bodak Yellow" that that No Flocking freestyle does not have...I mean there's a lot of good freestyles on the internet I could go find 10 as good as that right now

I wasn't annoyed

Since it’s only truly big in the US (and UK I think?) I’m assuming it’s driven by cult of personality and her media presence over there rather than by the actual quality of the song.

bodak yellow is one of those sassy cartoons starring an anthropomorphic animal i haven't gotten around to seeing yet

I thought "(yes that Peter gunz)" was amusing. Like "oh, not some other Peter Gunz that you might not have heard of! This is definitely your father's Peter gunz, and make SURE you don't initialise his surname!"

Voted "good song"

Since it’s only truly big in the US (and UK I think?) I’m assuming it’s driven by cult of personality and her media presence over there rather than by the actual quality of the song.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:15 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if this was all it took why hasn't it happened for a dozen other washed up or never were rappers on Love & Hip Hop?

I mean, like it's not exactly my bag but when I finally looked up Bodak Yellow after hearing about it you could just hear that it was a hit

btw was not familiar w/Asian Doll and she's probably a "better" rapper in ways than Cardi but at the same time let's not pretend there's not an energy and catchiness to "Bodak Yellow" that that No Flocking freestyle does not have...I mean there's a lot of good freestyles on the internet I could go find 10 as good as that right now

― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:10 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I guess but i think the success & months of forced sing a long bs has made ppl more reverting to cardi’s version than they otherwise would be

*reverent

the cash me outside girl does in fact now rap

Danielle Bregoli Peskowitz (born March 26, 2003), also known by her stage name Bhad Bhabie (pronounced "bad baby"), is an American rapper and social media personality.

The most important rappers with the best songs are cardi b, bhad bhabie, and post malone

corey gunz is on the new lil wayne tape (dedication 6)

xp nobody says that

I'll say this: Kesha's "Praying" is more inexplicably overrated.

ok no

although it's certainly not the best track on rainbow

I'll say this: Kesha's "Praying" is more inexplicably overrated.

cosign

anyway i'm sure if you like this it'll merely strengthen your convictions but this is boring af and completely bereft of any musical or lyrical interest for me and if it wins it'll follow in a delightful lineage of nonsense that the illexinati (rip) pushed to the eoy #1 (212, wut etc)

you a worker

lol ... imago ... otm?? *looks at hands, they're covered in blood*

xp nobody says that

― porg and bess (voodoo chili), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:59 PM (twenty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sure but plenty of ppl who wouldn't give bhad bhabie the time of day dont seem to realize its essentially the same formula but w lil pump in place of kodak black

this is not the last time u and i will be in agreement this poll cycle

*mysteriously vanishes in puff of smoke*

Song of the year. Y’all tripping.

lol @ "bhad bhabie"

how is bhabie formed?

If this is the song of the year then this was truly a sad year.

anyway i'm sure if you like this it'll merely strengthen your convictions but this is boring af and completely bereft of any musical or lyrical interest for me and if it wins it'll follow in a delightful lineage of nonsense that the illexinati (rip) pushed to the eoy #1 (212, wut etc)

― Cardi Acs (imago), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 2:17 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark

!! BOOMING POST !!

btw was not familiar w/Asian Doll and she's probably a "better" rapper in ways than Cardi but at the same time let's not pretend there's not an energy and catchiness to "Bodak Yellow" that that No Flocking freestyle does not have...I mean there's a lot of good freestyles on the internet I could go find 10 as good as that right now

― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:10 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I guess but i think the success & months of forced sing a long bs has made ppl more reverting to cardi’s version than they otherwise would be

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 12:24 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

More to the point, Asian Doll did this on her own whereas cardi was professionally a&r’d & bankrolled.. which is to say, yes it’s a maximally “enjoyable” version of the formula

in Britain and wondering why Cardi B has crossed over yet K Michelle hasn't despite very similar angles (stripper turned celebrity via reality TV and undeniable charisma)?

FYI I sing along to Bodak Yellow without Anyone forming me. I also think all these theories about outward forces conspiring to make people like it sound... strained.

voted great song. the drawl (the *many* drawled words), the measured tempo, the threat of violence and easy authority. wtf, this is great. bit pissed but come on, what's not to like. It's like someone walking with cockeyed grace.

Wish I could change my vote from good to great. Music resonates or it doesn't based on how you feel when it hits your ear, and yeah there's an authenticity to her vibe and attitude that works for me

It's not even the best Cardi B song of the year (Pop Off ftw).

illexinati lol

i don't remember "212" feeling particularly boosted by lex or any particular person here, just seemed like the natural song for ilm to aggregate around that year. "wut" is for sure the most obviously lex-anointed #1 tho. but tbf there have been similarly bizarre #1s that had nothing to do with lex's influence.

did ppl really get subjected to 'forced singalongs' via this song? it's not like middle management was telling ppl to come to work with goofy clothes + props so they could film a tryhard viral video a la "harlem shake" or smth

What!? That’s not how marketing works. The money is poured before it gets to the audience not after.

iM gonna put this number 1 just to f w the haters

FYI I sing along to Bodak Yellow without Anyone forming me. I also think all these theories about outward forces conspiring to make people like it sound... strained.

― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 3:10 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

No one is saying ppl don’t authentically like it or that it’s not a real hit. It’s obviously both of those things. When this board talks about non rap genres though these concerns would never enter the conversation

I also think she’s a v authentic personality & get why she’s famous. It’s the idea that she’s exceptionally deserving vs the entire genre of rap that is dumb

which was a weirder recent critics consensus pick, bodak yellow or seasons (waiting on you)

No one is saying ppl don’t authentically like it or that it’s not a real hit. It’s obviously both of those things. When this board talks about non rap genres though these concerns would never enter the conversation

This is next-level. You realize that YOU YOURSELF are often the person voicing these concerns???

The only zine that was hyping Seasons that year was Pitchfork though?

it won pazz & jop

Ah that’s true! That one was a weirder consensus pick imo. At least Bodak Yellow is following on recent trends and feels more Zeitgeist-y.

this song rules + “these is bloody shoes” is an amazing lyric

^basically my take

God Imago I know it's the season of goodwill and everything but you really do write the most ignorant shit with such smug superiority.

song obviously slaps. was a nice surprise coming back to the song a few months later to find out it had made number 1. rap caviar poty 2017 I guess

I don't even like Bodak Yellow that much but it's a massive international hit rather than a niche underground interest like 'Wut'. And it's a massive hit for reasons that are largely down to playlists and streaming and all the attendant promotion rather than any Lex boosterism at all.

I'm not sure its even going to crack the ILM Top 10 at all (it might do as well as Bad and Boujie or maybe Hotline Bling) but even referring to it in terms of irrelevant message board dynamics only highlights how little you understand about current pop music and what drives success. And God knows there's plenty to criticise in that right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZKEaQww0g

I saw BBK at the O2 earlier this year and when Westwood dropped Bodak Yellow beforehand the place went apeshit, just thousands and thousands of people knowing every word. I mean that entire section of his set was just him playing back to back Rap Caviar mainstays but you could see the impact.

The reaction was way way bigger than when he played DNA or Humble or Big For Your Boots or anything else you would expect to be a banker. The only other things I saw get that kind of reaction were T-Shirt and Abra Cadabra's Robbery.

i guess my error (every year) is assuming ilx to be somehow critically independent of the volk. i mean should it even be? perhaps a little

Oh god shut up.

even though bodak yellow is p much lex bullseye i guess in that sense it doesn't follow on from wut at all (although 212 is a diff matter) but, as stated above, from stuff like seasons (waiting on you)* that blew up so huge that ilx just couldn't step out of the way, it was inexorable

*my least favourite traxpoll winner ever, fact fans

Yes you're right, ILM is impelled to follow the bovine hordes and I look forward to congratulating Ed Sheeran when he sweeps the board in next month's countdown.

that would be p hilarious in fact

it's kind of a pity there's no consensus SZA song is all i will say, she is the One To Unite Us All this year

I'll get behind a block vote for yxng bane's shape of you

seasons didn't win here though, 2 on did (deservingly)

i hope the relative lack of consensus here this year means something interesting sneaks through and bodak yellow places in the 10s to 20s

ok that is a seriously bad misremembering, sorry :/

Yeah I just don't think Bodak Yellow has that much of a following on here so maybe save the handwringing until later.

classic ILM tropes itt:

a) why is popular song popular?
b) why is ILM people all like exactly the same trend?
c) nobody should be that into a record because there is another record
d) i am concerned that the arbitrary values this board assigns to records will be factually inaccurate
e) everybody's taste is inauthentic except the people who share my taste

f) NV gets grouchy about people having the same empty metaphysical debates every fucking month altho clearly they enjoy it and NV should just leave them alone

anyway any fule knos that black beatles by ras sramard feat gacci mone will take it this year

I get why people like this song now but I still don’t.

I just find it so edifying when imago takes a break from listening to his allotted one Kendrick Lamar album per year to descended from the top of Mount Cardiacs to weigh in on the popular jass and ragtime sheet music of the day and finds it, well, terribly distressing in it's lack of sophistication

I've listened to every single track nominated for the EOY poll? Plenty of pop and rap to like, just seems weird how this one took off.

This is next-level. You realize that YOU YOURSELF are often the person voicing these concerns???

― the man from P.O.R.L.O.C.K. (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, December 26, 2017 8:46 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There’s a preliminary conversation that we all see the same objective reality about the shape of things that is essential in order to relate it to our subjective tastes & preferences ... Imo when it comes to rap ilx confuses the former and the latter

I don’t really care / already know imago doesn’t have any idea what’s going on in the former world as relates to rap, that he’s accidently agreed with me in the latter is a delightful bonus

e) everybody's taste is inauthentic except the people who share my taste

― a Rambo in curved air (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, December 27, 2017 5:07 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You’re projecting. I’m explaining why this is unexciting to me, not why it’s “authentically” unexciting. I hope that my rhetorical might persuade ppl to recognize some truth in their own experience of the music but ime a lot of the talk around bodak yellow, links to ppl singing it on a subway platform etc are themselves arguments abt its authenticity. (Horseshoes pt about the bloody shoes lyric is compelling, that’s a stark vivid line that immediately comes to mind)

These is bloody horseshoes

like one of these guys?

http://www.scaryforkids.com/pics/new-horse.jpg

that subway video, is that one of the 'forced sing alongs' that was mentioned upthread?

I didn't have you in mind for (e) D-40, maybe (c) a little bit ;-)

I'm divorced from a lot of the contextual stuff like internet/YouTube hype, it doesn't make my take on a tune any purer, just different

I'm definitely interested in the material and cultural context of production and reception, those kind of conversations are worth having. I skip off the bus laughing when they get tangled up with the subjective experience of listening because there are too many subjectivities for that to be a sensible intersection

Personally I don’t hate the song I am an outsider and I am genuinely interested in the context of why this song in particular became so big. Songs like “Mask Off” or “XO tour” have very recognizable hooks for a non-native english speaker (who pays attention to lyrics only half of the time and has no clue of slang and metaphors and references and whatnot used in rap) and someone who was raised on pop rather than rap, Bodak Yellow is not as immediate for me. That said I am fascinated by rap culture and this thread is somewhat enlightening to me (and yet half of it is invalidating sides and I am partially guilty for it, so sorry bout that)

i think in 10 years people will remember liking this and feel a pang of embarrassment

I feel like as the rest of the genre is retroactively canonized (as inevitably happens) it will start to feel less exceptional. The sense that it’s the only song of its kind (particularly w a female lead artist rapping over a modern rap song as opposed to whatever it is Nicki is doing) is directly tied to why ppl feel so strongly imo

yes I'm sure in 10 years I will be wracked with guilt for thinking this was a pretty fun rap song

yes I'm sure in 10 years I will be wracked with guilt for thinking this was a pretty fun rap song

in fairness upper miss ten years from today you will probably still be getting held to account on ilxor dot com for how you felt about bodak yellow, it's the nature of the game

imagine a bloody shoe
kicking a human butt forever

That subway video just kinda shows the futility of chin-stroking about the why/how of this song. It's a big ol banger and ppl like songs that bang. You can argue about what percentage of the bang factor to attribute to No Flockin' or to Cardi herself, and sure she had promotional muscle her, but the net result is still big ol banger.

promotional muscle to help her

lots of shitty songs are bangers though! why are we blind to this

are you guys still banging 'panda'? what about 'trap queen'?

Trap queen still bangs

But it wasn't a mystery why those songs were hits either, right? I guess there are two strands here, "why is this song a hit" and "is it a good song." The second one is obv way more subjective, the first one just doesn't seem that hard to figure.

People have stopped thinking about Fetty Wap entirely, but when TQ comes on at parties, people lose their shit.

So this is a thread about whether people like or dislike a song, and people seem to have very strong views one way or the other, but nobody seems to be saying why they like or dislike it, have I got this right?

if y'all wanna relitigate rockism more power to you I guess but it seems like a weird choice in 2017

if y'all wanna relitigate rockism has this ever been in question on www.ilxor.com?

whiny decided Desiigner was the Scott Walker of Migos he still cares

"Panda" and "Trap Queen" are lit.

when TQ comes on at parties, people lose their shit

It doesn't happen as often in the '10s as it did in other decades, but on occasion a song's popularity exceeds the artist. I don't see this happening with "Bodak Yellow."

i am still listening to fetty wap btw
but then i am still listening to t pain so maybe i just never learn

her voice sounds like a thumb rubbing against a balloon

how about that

also my critique about its money-moving glorification was a specific response to the over the top “MOST WOKE SONG OF 2017, WHAT A REBUKE TO TRUMPISM” reactions i saw from some pubs and writers that consider themselves politically on the “right” side. the economics don’t add up to me on that particular level for a bunch of reasons. if other songs with similar sentiments were (over)praised in similar ways i would feel similarly uncomfortable.

post malone is way worse, OBVIOUSLY. (and to tie this whole thread together i saw him open for fetty wap. he opened and closed his 30 minute set with “white iverson”). as are g-eazy and all the other mumblcore white rappers out there.

It’s a song about going to the dentist.

There's no "MOST WOKE SONG EVER" in this thread so arguing against it here seems a bit like a waste of time.

the song is fine, the thread is a lot of frustration about the music industry and music journalism, some of it unexamined (when you could splice salty reddit posts from the pitchfork AMA into a thread and have them fit right in, there's a problem) let to seep into a song that is fine.

wait how is this song supposed to be"woke"??

the "promotional muscle" argument is also a bit dubious because it tends to be deployed selectively, a convenient scapegoat for not liking a song for other reasons.

(see: the Charli XCX album, which I liked! but every single guest on that album has tons of promotional muscle behind their presence -- one of them is a Dr. Luke protegee, even! -- yet the consensus seems to be "these guests are great and defy The Algorithms telling us what to listen to." I like the guest spots a lot, but they were brought to you by major-label PR.)
(also see: the pushback to social media stars and the like making records. not to say that there isn't PR muscle there as well [although sometimes via different companies] but generally when the labels get involved it's trying to scramble to get out in front of a pre-existing fanbase.)

decent song from a decent stripper

camaraderie at arms length, i know, i’m just trying to recontextualize my comment that was floated as a dissent earlier because i’ve been getting “why don’t you say the same thing about other songs” pushback. (i do often think it! but whatever.)

the "most woke song ever" stuff I'd guess is about its accompanying blurbs on year-end lists

it is.

the most woke song of any given year is released by macklemore

lol

Things I never want to read again:

1. How “woke” a piece of music is
2. How Cardi B used to be a stripper and what that “means”

Bodak Yellow is a good song

To mention what D-40 mentioned, it's a "good" song in the same way that "This Is Why I'm Hot" or "Hot N*gga" or "All Gold Everything" or whatever is a good song, where there's nothing particularly original or life-changing or radical about it musically, but it obviously hits the right feeling of the times and is fun and everyone likes it enough. It doesn't take some "actually starland vocal band is bae" poptimism wizard magic to accept and embrace the **scorpions voice** winds of change and the Trendz of Culture that made this song hot. She's a good rapper, she has right amount of sliced dej loaf swagu, a flow that was already established by Kodak, it's fine. If Ego Trip was still putting out lists, it would get the, like, 30th-to-40th best song of the year spot reserved for shit like "Getto Jam" or "Regulate" or "Da Dip" or "Baby Got Back" or w/e. I cannot imagine the backbends you would have to do to actively DISLIKE this song

That being said, more to Katherine's point, yes, the way we write about these songs is incredibly broken. I mean, was there really a "great" song released this year? Maybe Margo Price's "Pay Gap" or Kendrick's "Humble"? But those also seemed very formalist in their approach to rebellion?

It feels like we're in that post-Sopranos/Wire era of TV where everyone just wants to believe something is the new Thriller or the new "Hey Ya" ("Migos is better than the Beatles") even though internet exploding the monoculture makes that almost a statistical improbability.

my concern about promotional muscle is not that the song is succeeding because of it, but that other artists i like more dont get the same opportunity a social media celeb will, and this tempers my 'excitement' for the success of a record by an artist conservative labels saw as a sure bet while acts which could easily be in a position of equal or greater success dont have that leg up

this is not a criticism of the song, or of the artist, but of the industry, and then by critics whose approach to music is to assume the status quo is the way it is bc the 'cream rises to the top' in some kind of poptimist natural selection

personally for me, this makes it hard to be extra super excited about this record

i mean, she says right in the the song she's making money moves

chris' post is good also although the last line i'd have to think abt how much i agree with

I mean, also, regarding the industry machine, it is really ... interesting... that the same culture of "no filter social media celebrity" spawned both this critically acclaimed number one song and the least popular president of all time

which also makes Pitchfork framing it as "an unignorable antithesis to a political landscape built around xenophobia, racism, and sexism" not exactly scan to me.

Like Ivanka doesn't rock Loubotins?

imagine the think pieces if "my neck my back" by khia came out now

I'm somewhat amazed by "Was there really a 'great' song released this year?" and don't understand the quotes around great.

Can we not post tweets anymore?

I want to respond to upper mississippi sh@kedown with the goop on ya grinch tweet

I think editors and designers look for great songs more than writers do. Proclaiming "Bodak Yellow" as great as "Hey Ya" or whatever works for SEO. Me, I'm happy to listen to just good songs.

Weird discussion! I would think that people would, generally speaking, be somewhat happy to listen to just good songs, happier to listen to great ones.

imagine the think pieces if "my neck my back" by khia came out now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_RfFrkkD6U

wish I read a good thinkpiece on this when it was released yesteryear

precisely xpost to Tim

but it's also the post-Xmas/pre-NYE interzone, we need something to do w/our time

the goop on ya grinch that stole post-xmas

the thing about promotional muscle -- I'm pretty sure I've mentioned this before, so apologies -- is that it isn't foolproof. this, for instance, is a list of a lot of tracks Clear Channel has thrust promotional muscle behind. if promotional muscle alone was enough then all of these people would be megastars, or at least stars. (from another poster: "It's been over a year since an OTV song cracked the Top 10 at pop.") http://pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/149246/iheartradio-on-verge-artists

"other artists I like more" is also selective. we all like SZA, right? she's one of the current benefactors.

pressed enter too soon; where I was going with that was "Bodak Yellow" reached No. 1 where other equally PR'd songs did not because a lot of people genuinely like it a lot. and the argument that aforementioned fans (particularly women of color) latched onto the song because the big bad PR machine told them to and they're just virtue signaling is very dubious to me, especially since I've read about 10 versions of it from reddit

Again though I don’t think anyone is arguing there’s a conspiracy to make this song a hit just that it’s such a low stakes “win”

lol i hadn't seen goop on ya grinch that's hilarious

Like, Katherine, did you actually read my post or is someone else saying this is only popular bc of the industry? I know lots of people genuinely like the song. I also know lots of artists never get the opportunity to be heard, because I do the work to hear them myself, and it’s hard for me to hear her “good” song out of this context; for the casual listener unaware of this, she seems special, but I’ve written about and covered lots of rappers who are women of color never given these opportunities. I’m not saying her song didn’t earn it’s place, and social media celeb is as legitimate a path as any other. But I’m a MUSIC critic not a “who games the industry best” critic and her music is pretty mid

Like, how many ppl I heard crowing about bodak yellow spent even a minute listening to or writing about rico nasty / Asian Doll / Cupcakke / queen key /Molly Brazy / saweetie etc?

We can make fun of the lexian nature of this song going number one but at least you can’t say that about him

yeah whiney that’s what sat oddly with me too.

also david otm about celebrity breeding celebrity and pushing less synergized types further to the margins. “brands” are all around good for business - music and media alike.

off the top of my head, very, very, VERY many people have written about cupcakke

(I mentioned the Charli XCX record upthread; she's on it. on the last one too)

also, "listening to" sure, but a) for all you know, people have listened to those artists, and just don't like them as much as you do; and b) I don't think it's fair to criticize a writer for writing about the artists they were commissioned to write about, especially when that commission came as part of a consensus list. these are editorial decisions. there are plenty of artists I love that I will probably never be able to write about for anything but my own blog.

katherine i’m saying that oftentimes the situation that media is in results in editors being somewhat blinkered / more laser focused than in previous years, which is why you are so much groupthink, which is especially off putting in a year that was filled with music. i know how the media works. i’m not indicting you personally.

also, "listening to" sure, but a) for all you know, people have listened to those artists, and just don't like them as much as you do; and

And this is exactly the kind of argument you’d probably call bullsht on if it was used to rationalize post Malone’s place at the top of the billboard hierarchy

And yes Cupcakke has gained a degree of traction in the press but only bc of a small enthusiastic minority who pushed for her against a fair amount of resistance. I don’t think Cupcakke has a song as broadly appealing as bodak yellow, and I don’t think Asian doll’s bodak yellow freestyle is as broadly appealing as cardi’s either. But that’s a product of Industry investment and a&r those artists haven’t received

Cupcakke is literally a self-managed, self-a&r’d unsigned phenomenon. It’s a lot harder to manufacture a top 40 hit for yourself in 2017 given those circumstances. Look at how playlisting works at Spotify & Apple.

I'm not sure how that argument is applicable to Post Malone, given that he's neither obscure nor a critical favorite

Ugh that logic frustrates me so so much

“Maybe they have heard all the female rappers but the only good one is the one with the million dollar Atlantic deal who was already famous before she recorded a note of music”

not as frustrating as "I love this relatively obscure artist, so anyone who doesn't mirror my infallible taste is a deluded corporate shill." I mean, I've done it too -- probably anyone who writes about music has -- but it isn't a defensible position

you *see so much groupthink. not are

If you don’t think critical views of rap are mainly shaped by industry forces which reward scalability at its most extreme you’re not paying attention

Rap is a living breathing art form where a multiplicity of voices are in conversation with each other, where innovation is a product of culture. but that doesn’t matter because if cardi just does a really easy to understand version we can bypass all that and just say yasss bodak yellow

i don’t think david is arguing that at all. i do think that when you see outliers on the pop chart it’s worth interrogating how they “happened.” we could also do the same with portugal. the man, who went top ten in a year largely allergic to rock. or khalid. or etc

not as frustrating as "I love this relatively obscure artist, so anyone who doesn't mirror my infallible taste is a deluded corporate shill." I mean, I've done it too -- probably anyone who writes about music has -- but it isn't a defensible position

― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:36 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The idea that these artists are “obscure” comes from such an insane myopic vantage point. We’re talking about the artists who literally informed the sound of the music she makes, who are major names within a musical tradition that you mainly ignore

xp - I'm aware of how playlisting works (can't say *how* aware because of NDAs) but the thing about metrics-based playlisting is that the metrics come from actual people*. the result of adding your obscure, or at least not widely beloved, faves to those playlists is generally large amounts of skips and dislikes -- i.e. forcing people to work around listening to artists they don't want to listen to. with Cupcakke in particular there's also a respectability politics component, which sucks but exists. it's going to be difficult to get a song called "Vagina" onto most playlists, let alone convince people not to skip it immediately when it comes on at work or whatever, and given that that's largely her thing, there is going to be a barrier there. (I can't talk about the other artists because I haven't heard them, nor do they particularly seem like my thing.)

TBC not saying your insane but that the vantage point is insanely myopic (sorry if that came across as personal)

the key word here is "relatively"

Katherine what the people want isn’t some biological imperative it’s informed by discourse / marketing

And I agree “vagina” wouldn’t make sense on rap caviar (ahh corporations) but the whole point is if a label invests in her career they ideally help protect her vision while giving her the tools to make it onto rap caviar which is exactly what happened with cardi b, who literally was not a recording artist two years ago

Or I should say it’s not *wholly* a biological imperative e

also, I'm not sure how "you don't listen to rap" is relevant here given that a) "scalability at its most extreme" is how the entire music industry works, and b) I'm not the one writing about "Bodak Yellow" for Pitchfork or anywhere else. I don't even think I voted for it.

portugal. the man, who went top ten in a year largely allergic to rock.

tbf their hit was barely a rock song; it was like a Bruno Mars or Taylor Swift song from 5 years ago but with weaker vocals

tho i do love "feel it still" i would still have to acknowledge that the thing that sounds most like (postman aside) is indie meghan trainor

i'm gonna call "good song" as the likely winner here btw

I voted Okay

I also voted Okay

anyway, I seem to be doing a poor job of getting my argument across (what else is new) so I give up

anyway, I seem to be doing a poor job of getting my argument across (what else is new) so I give up

Take the old Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" and swap "sense of self" for "salary," and voila! Pop-cultural discourse in 2017!

My sense of self?

I feel like everyone is always projecting selfish motivations on others which conflicts w their clear eyed view of the world

Or self interested, anyway

if my motivations were self-interested I wouldn't have posted in the first place

that's not how posting works

other. i dont need 250-3000 words. just one will do

                              ÛÛÛÛÛ                                
                             °°ÛÛÛ                                 
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°°ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ°°ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ ÛÛÛÛÛ     ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ °°ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ°°ÛÛÛÛÛÛÛ°°ÛÛÛÛÛÛ 
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 ÛÛÛ °ÛÛÛ                                         ÛÛÛ °ÛÛÛ         
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can tell how out of touch music critics/popular newspapers/magazines are these days

°Û mad

https://www.theshirtlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Were-all-mad-here.jpg

ascii art, a true sign one is in touch with today

touched a critics nerve i c

critics don't have nerves

tangent, but pop radio's allergy to rock is no worse than its allergy to basically everything that isn't homogenized ac-(/white-)friendly soft rock balladry or edm midtempos. the number of pop radio top 10s crossing from rock radio is essentially equal to the number crossing from urban radio, even tho the latter are far more voraciously consumed (and can thus chart well even when pop ignores them).

of 2016's pop radio top 10s: 4 crossed from rock radio, 3 from urban, with the remaining 42 being straightforward pop/ac/edm-lite
of 2017's pop radio top 10s: 4 rock (3 not counting "castle on the hill" which broke first at aaa which one might argue is too adult to really be 'rock'), 4 urban (3 not counting "too good at goodbyes" which broke first at adult urban aka the format sam smith would have had to start his career at if he weren't white), 1 latin ("despacito"), 37 straightforward pop/ac/edm-lite

the distinctive thing about this year's 'rock' crossovers is that all of them crossed via hot ac radio and tv ad placements, which might explain why many of them don't even sound much like rock.

Side note: portugal the man is sampling “please mr postman” by the marvelettes so it’s not rooted in rock at all.

a poem, a stink, a grating noise, a quality of light, a tone, a habit, a nostalgia, a dream

moka, i imagine this is a question of translation but i would suggest that most anyone who thinks about music much would consider "please mr postman" a rock n roll song. the beatles did.

the argument that the success of the song is all due to promo push and behind-the-scenes music biz stuff is belied by the fact that it's the first #1 solo female rap hit in 20 years; if it were so easy for labels to engineer a hit like this don't you think they would have done it more than once this millenium

i just think this song is corny. my feeling is that down the road people will reflect on the production and vocal delivery and it will seem lame and forced and kind of awkwardly sincere (like john wayne westerns, or latter-day boogie down) rather than "wow this is still so fresh and badass" (like clint E circa "fistful" or wu tang). still fun, tho, yeah! just corny.

Xpost: isn’t it doowop/r&b? I suppose it can be rock too. Portugal the man is not a rocking song at any rate, it’s more of a groovy pop number rather than a rocking one.

Budo jeru otm

the argument that the success of the song is all due to promo push and behind-the-scenes music biz stuff is belied by the fact that it's the first #1 solo female rap hit in 20 years; if it were so easy for labels to engineer a hit like this don't you think they would have done it more than once this millenium

― flopson, Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:46 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Imo this is more abt music industry not investing in women than it is about cardi b being some legendary anomaly

Rap Caviar won't play a song called "Vagina" but they have a woman beater talking about fucking throats, a paedo talking about putting dick in backbones and a murderer talking about nutting on a face.

All those things are "Caviar" btw

Not even on a Tipper tip, just like how kath and deej agree Cupcakke would be out of place there

All the BDP albums are good and the last one Sex & Violence is underrated Duck Down was an awesome single

yeah i agree but if you think "love's gonna get ya" isn't corny then like ummm idk

new CupcakKe has plenty of songs not titled "Vagina", no reason "Biggie Smalls" or "Scraps" couldn't be on Rap Caviar (apart ofc from it being a lame playlist w the lamest name)

Niels otm

chris I don’t think me or Katherine would say it’s *rigt* but yeah w/in rap raunchy women are somehow more over the line than gangster pedophiles

haha don’t let portugal the man hear you say they’re not a rock band. they might go after you on instagram

This is a totally side topic but it's also so great when the state of rock music is determined by a handful of bum ass soft serve major label bands
Btw Maura I really like Pile from your year end list, really great band

actually kind of curious now whether streaming makes it easier or harder for (sigh, phrasing) raunchier women. I can think of arguments for both

ah yeah pile are the freaking best! they’re even better live

i just think this song is corny. my feeling is that down the road people will reflect on the production and vocal delivery and it will seem lame and forced and kind of awkwardly sincere (like john wayne westerns, or latter-day boogie down) rather than "wow this is still so fresh and badass" (like clint E circa "fistful" or wu tang). still fun, tho, yeah! just corny.

― budo jeru, Thursday, December 28, 2017 8:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Otm. Just strikes me as a "my 1st rap song I liked" for preteens. Full disclosure, I've never listened to the whole song.

Preteens Love Louboutins

Loubou-preteens

yeah i agree but if you think "love's gonna get ya" isn't corny then like ummm idk

― budo jeru, Friday, December 29, 2017

"Love's Gonna Get You" sounds way less corny in 2017 than a song that references Freak Nasty, BAPE and a reality TV show

"I think this meme jpeg of Spongebob acting like a chicken will prove corny, much like the film Chinatown"

Personally I don’t hate the song I am an outsider and I am genuinely interested in the context of why this song in particular became so big. Songs like “Mask Off” or “XO tour” have very recognizable hooks for a non-native english speaker (who pays attention to lyrics only half of the time and has no clue of slang and metaphors and references and whatnot used in rap) and someone who was raised on pop rather than rap, Bodak Yellow is not as immediate for me

I am a native English speaker, but this post otherwise rings true for me.

yeah love's gonna get ya is great

I think Stagecoach holds up as well as any of Eastwood's spaghetti westerns which always seem like they last 7 hours to me when i try to watch them

Listened to “mask off” yesterday in San Miguel de Allende which is a popular spot in mexico for US tourists and they went a bit crazy for it. If that was the song all critics we’re flocking around as the best I’d get it.

That song is boring as shit

i read the lyrics

honestly i consider myself a bit of an authority on strippers and i can tell u there are strippers working way harder and better than cardi b

not sure how many of you have had strippers sing in your ears, and how many strippers at that, but i can attest to their being quality singing strippers, plus quality performing strippers, as i recounted in one of the i think strippers threads on ilx. the one abt the woman literally playing w fire

shit was fire.

yo.

cardi b a liar.

peace out

an adult human being everyone! how about a round of applause?

I find Bodak Yellow more boring :/

i mean bodak yellow sounds like shes phoning it in

got tired of the stripper life (its rougher than the rapper lyfe for sure) and fair enough but dont flaunt/brag abt it

my 2 cents

According to spotify the real winner was rockstar by post malone and 21savage though... also the biggest Cardi B song was Bartier Cardi?

Another notch against this song being the anthesis to Trump's campaign of sexism is the fact that one of the four men with a writing credit on "Bodak Yellow" has been indicted for sexual assault

The authenticity chase aspect of this convo is always interesting whether it’s “I saw Americans get excited about this” “look at these people at a subway stop” or on the other side “let me tell you about Real Strippers”

I’m not saying I’ve never shared a video of kids dancing to faneto or whatever but that’s for songs that aren’t already number one on the pop charts and absolutely saturating a conversation, & is a starting pt for arguments about subjective quality not the final word

loads of fake strippers btw lol man lots of fake jugz fo sho!

We need a 'pretty decent song, fucking awful lyrics' option.

But 'Mask Off' is way better.

well, damn, we've got the stripper expert here, all other people talking about strippers including actual strippers are now irrelevant

wld be chill if we had actual ex strippers on ilx

definitely wld make the board less boring

youre stupid

anyway the problem here is non-critics thinking posts directed at critics are directed at them

I'm just here to police against ppl insulting old Boogie Down Productions albums

take the wackest song and make it better

ulysses the jack of spades was inside u all along

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qp-ERdjJ1Vc/hqdefault.jpg

can’t tell if infinity’s posts are real

i am v corny tbh so this song may, indeed, be corny

I’m not saying I’ve never shared a video of kids dancing to faneto or whatever but that’s for songs that aren’t already number one on the pop charts and absolutely saturating a conversation, & is a starting pt for arguments about subjective quality not the final word

most of the videos i saw of people going crazy for bodak yellow came out well before the song topped the charts

reading ∞ posts

http://reactiongifs.com/?p=7857

reading ∞ posts
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/YesMinisterReaction61.gif

most of the videos i saw of people going crazy for bodak yellow came out well before the song topped the charts

― porg and bess (voodoo chili), Friday, December 29, 2017 3:46 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this was not true of the train video posted upthread iirc

i mean the song came out & was instantly on rap caviar

but regardless my point was that no one is arguing that this song is 'authentically' popular but ppl keep hammering home that authenticity issue like it proves their taste right

*no one is arguing the song is *not* authentically popular i mean

arguing that people writing blurbs about how much they like the song don't actually mean it/are deluded/etc is close enough

where is anyone saying that?

the whole thread seems to be about this

You are projecting so much that I want to warn you about the 10 seconds of silence in The Last Jedi

if its coming across that i think other people "shouldn't" like this song thats not at all my intent

if anything its sort of felt like the dominant tone is that not liking it is ~problematic~

im ok w/ anyone feeling any way about it, just explaining why i have trouble getting excited about it! personally! if what i say resonates w/ someone bc they hadn't thought about it before or deepens their relationship to it bc they think i might have a point, thats good too. but no one is saying there's some mass delusion bc people like a song

and fwiw i think the song is 'fine' & 'fun' just ... not as good as lots of other ppl think it is. this kind of difference is ... in every thread about music on this board ever

I wanna hear what other people have as their song of the year in this thread to be honest

probably "Dot in the Sky" by Drab Majesty

"First Day Out"

"Atom Heart Motherfuckers Never Learn" by Hawkeyes

I love "First Day Out."

I'm all "I know you don't mean the Insane Clown Posse song and yet that's all I can think of"

probably "Dot in the Sky" by Drab Majesty

― Embalming is a flirty business (DJP), Friday, 29 December 2017 23:11 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is indeed amazing

The question is not if it’s popular, it definitely is. it’s why. The answer is ‘because it’s fun’ and the counterargument is’no it’s not’.

I think my fave single is gonna end up being Akanamali by Sun-EL Musician and Samthing Soweto
Dua Lipa's New Rules is a close second
I may have totally different picks tomorrow

I love those songs.

👍

Song of the year is chocolate furniture’s upholster me with pleather

"I think this meme jpeg of Spongebob acting like a chicken will prove corny, much like the film Chinatown"

― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 29 December 2017 16:53 (yesterday) Permalink

lol dude yeah okay okay

http://www.mobo.com/sites/default/files/images/news/krs-one-slideshow.jpg

The question is not if it’s popular, it definitely is. it’s why. The answer is ‘because it’s fun’ and the counterargument is’no it’s not’.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, December 29, 2017 6:16 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk about anyone else but i was arguing about the artists not getting the opportunities to be this popular which is a slightly difft argument than what you're talking about

rap caviar sucks ass

fwiw this song broke on apple music (and whatever their rap caviar equivalent is) significantly earlier than spotify

iirc

I know I can google it but what is this rap caviar everyone is talking about?

a spotify playlist

http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/spotify-rapcaviar-most-influential-playlist-in-music.html

The dozen sales and streaming executives gathered in Atlantic’s midtown headquarters, or conferenced in from L.A., have in front of them spreadsheets, sorted alphabetically, filled with streaming data on Atlantic’s urban artists. Most of today’s conversation centers around Atlantic’s two big summer breakouts, Cardi B and Lil Uzi Vert. Apple’s Carl Chery jumped on Cardi early, giving her prime exposure on the A-List: Hip-Hop playlist, and the numbers reflect that: For the week ending August 17, over half of “Bodak Yellow”’s 15 million streams came from Apple Music users.

ProgCaviar anyone?

Prog Rock Monsters is ok

i guess there's a Spotify playlist for everything

one thing I'm liking about Tidal is the playlists and what they feature seems a little more human driven

like they did some cool stuff with ECM records in the jazz section recently

Wow! Thought it was a radio station or something in the US! Very impressed to see it’s a spotify playlist and how huge it is.

Payola in the Spotify era sounds interesting... you can get real numbers and instant results and they’re pretty much open for everyone to see. Not being cynical this is kind of exciting for me... seeing the actual followers and play numbers behind a hit.

EH it’s deceptive.. Apple doesn’t post play #s and apparently they broke it before rap caviar

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG0QwuTXgAA-AbZ?format=jpg

tempted to start a thread w the title

list degenerates liked by ilxors who would be banned into oblivion if they posted on ilxor.com

big man

Lesser men have started

Threads

Hard to believe i kno

I wiww twy

if only the lumpenproletariat would adhere to the strict ethical demands of the leftist bourgeoisie and stop stymieing the attempt to ride the multicultural rainbow into post-patriarchal utopia

xxxpost

rac∞n tan∞ki

Oh man if this guy was raccoon tanuki, it would confirm my long held belief that raccoon tanuki was the kind of guy who hung out at strip clubs; what a Christmas miracle that would be

for some reason i thought ∞ was an old school ilxor, but i also thought ∞ was not the type of poster to go around posting in the most patronizing tone possible about how much firsthand experience they have with strippers

you were thinking of lagoon perhaps

i've longed proclaimed ∞ is the worst poster on this board, good to see that is still holding up

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/8085800/cardi-b-the-beatles-ashanti-hot-100-top-10

my favorite line in bodak yellow is 'got a bag and fixed my teeth'

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

What makes this song resonate for me above a million other similar bits of luxury braggardry is the line "These expensive/these is red bottoms/these is bloody shoes," which is not only catchy but lays bare the violence of capitalism in a way I haven't heard in other songs. The louboutins are literally "bloody" -- she acknowledge that she has stepped on and crushed others to get where she is. This line works not only on that sort of personal ruthless, status climber level but also describes the "blood" of the sweatshop labor that went into making her luxury item:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jun/17/revealed-the-romanian-site-where-louis-vuitton-makes-its-italian-shoes
"Red" is even more appropriate here being not only associated with blood but with labor. At the end of the day she openly admits to identifying with being a "boss" and that "worker(s)" are contemptible. And being a boss means she makes "bloody moves," i.e. she acknowledges that being a capitalist inherently requires violence. Moreover, she doesn't have to *dance* (sell her labor) because she "makes money move" (freely moves capital across borders).

i cant tell if you're taking the piss or not, but i like it anyway

agreed.
excited to find out what bodak yellow is FINALLY

You needn't wait: it is.

lmao that post

that shit is like what you guys imagine im saying any time i bring up chief keef

if i see you and i don't hemiola, that means i don't fuck with you

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

'not a good song' outnumbers 'great song'!

if i see you and i don't hemiola, that means i don't fuck with you

― (the blues version in his Broadway show) (crüt), Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:58 PM (twenty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

my whole point about him doing something 'rhythmically unique' that ppl would pick up on was absolutely validated by how rap music played out over the next 5 years fwiw

^true

I mean, if you can boil the insane and hilarious small opinions of deej into one larger big picture opinion, then yes

no way. show me even one time that Migos have used a hemiola, D-40.

I think Migos doing their entire career on an offbeat flow is somewhat validating for D-40

song of the year + great song + good song = 55
okay song + meh song = 45
not a good song + terrible song + worst song of the year = 30
(other 3)

i do think of the migos as kind of a keef mumblerap counterpoint fwiw, their typewriter style coded as kinda 'lyrical' to ppl who didn't like slurred mumbling which ended up defining so many other rappers of this era (uzi yachty playboi carti 21 et al)

i do think famous dex & post-dex music (lil pump) was a kind of uniting of the keef style blueprint w/ the migos rat-tat-tat style hooky pop sound; meanwhile rappers like dudes in detroit chicago LA pushed further w/ the rhythmically loose narrative style that retained some connection to the basic beat but kept things unpredictable. all these guys retain a more keef-like swing w/ the groove than lil b (who obv fathered keef to some degree)

here's noted anti-keef partisan bdot three years after keef identifying the 'offbeat' rap trend:

is rhyming off beat the new on beat?

— brian b.dot™ miller (@bdotTM) January 16, 2015

anyway i dont mean to distract from the cardi b results which are not bad imo

Gonna be interesting to see where this places on ilx's top 77 poll

Number one obviously

i'm gonna call "good song" as the likely winner here btw
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses)

d40 being right about chief keef's influence and d40 being insane about chief keef aren't mutually exclusive

What exactly is insane abt what I’m saying ?

i'm just winding u up
this was hilarious

that shit is like what you guys imagine im saying any time i bring up chief keef

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:22 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hemiolaphiliac
hemiola and the masters of the universe
hemioohla la la

Get Up 10 is fire

Get Up 10 is FIIIIYAAHHHHHHH

it's dreams & nightmares

No shit Sherlock

I listened to the first 3/4 of it on the way into work this morning and I'm pretty sure I like every track on it more than Bodak Yellow.

Caity Weaver GQ profile

https://www.gq.com/story/cardi-b-invasion-of-privacy-profile

this album is so so good. I listened to it probably five times this weekend. such a great mix of guests and styles. I get that Cardi's not as dexterous on the mic as somebody like Nicki but she turns that into a strength. her technical limitations just help her come across as more real and relatable and more convincing. her words really mean something too, like I love puns and punchlines and references and insider slang and she does have some of that but something like "Be Careful" is just so beautifully direct.

Jesus you don't argue with The Barbz or the Cardi hardcore.

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/cardi-b-nicki-minaj-rivalry

I mean, pitting the only two current black female rap superstars against each other and defending it by saying "this is freedom of speech as its most fundamental level" is hugely NAGL, but this does not deserve death threats.

album is really good. that it appeals even to Joan Crawford herself, an aging shut-in, means it will probably irritate a lot of people who spend/have the time to be up on all the hot new stuff that hasn't bubbled up yet but as so much music listening is pretty much pure hedonism/healing for me right now...these beats are fucking righteous, the "all right all right" loop in "Bickenhead" is great, this is like a perfect spring record imo

the "all right all right" loop in "Bickenhead" is great,

ftr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XaUiMcDFZs

noted

"be careful" is fuckin good

#Actually

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ovQSaYGTvsI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqbu8hH25TI

surprise i looooooove the kehlani track

Half of this is a terrific album.

the kehlani collab is definitely among the highlights for me

it's a solid collection! def wanna spend more time w/ it

Whenever Bartier Cardi comes on I get so blown away at first and I think "wow why didn't I love this when it first came out?" and then 21 Savage comes on and I realize "oh wait that's why"

Great album tho

cardi's so cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX5_o-mumvE

Damn her records good. Thru your phone is dope. She deserves a new thread tbf

probably still my AOTY right now, though Tracey Thorn and US Girls aren't far behind.

ppl still intimidated by azealia banks in 2018
http://www.vulture.com/2018/05/cardi-b-deletes-instagram-following-azealia-banks-fight.html

Why would she even respond? Let alone delete her IG acct. afterward? So weird

Huge amount of pressure for someone pregnant to be under. Probably good she is stepping away.

"Hey Cardi, do you sign?"

https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/Cardi-B-and-Offset-Sued-by-Autograph-Seeker-for-12919914.php

It's May 2018. I've never heard this song, and at this point prob won't. Seeya

Records perfect other than the chance collab - it sucks

still fairly stunned at how *solid* this whole album is

i'm living inside Money Bag rn

Awesome record

Cardi has infinite amounts of personality

Bump. Somehow I missed most of the initial promo cycle, but the album is terrific.

Still think cardi needs her own thread

Yeah, I didn't particularly like "Bodak Yellow" but the album is good, especially the slow jams "Ring" and "Thru Your Phone".

yeah i was really surprised by how much i liked the album after not really caring about bodak yellow

i haven't listened to the album front-to-back in quite some time but it's been fun to realize over the course of the year just how many really strong, memorable tracks there are as i hear them out-and-about, on radio mixshows and the like

Otm

I like it sounds great blasting from cars

we should really have a cardi thread

until then, interesting quote from GQ profile:

For listeners, Cardi's distinct vocal patterns are part of the appeal of her rap style. She makes English sound way more fun than it is. "Do you want to know something?" Cardi asks. "That's my biggest problem, that takes me a long time in the booth. I be trying to pronounce words properly and without an accent. Each and every song from my album, I most likely did it over five times, because I'm really insecure about my accent when it comes to music. In person, I don't care."

new song w/ bruno mars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FitbJ3oqww

Dearie me:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47718477

Cosby B

it's kinda...insane to me that this doesn't seem to really be hurting her in any way

it's super fucked up

ten "Selectivity of Cancel Culture" dissertations by the end of the year imo

it's insane to me that people are comparing this to rape

yeah, she drugged johns and stole their money. shady behaviour, of course, but comparisons to cosby are o_0

nobody cares about johns basically (i know i don't)

It's not going to affect her because the only people equating the two either still idolize famous men who are sexual predators or because they need to believe that women are generally as trash as men. And she owned up to it; I am still waiting for multitudes of famous trash men to own up to any degree of fucked up behaviour.

ten "Selectivity of Cancel Culture" dissertations by the end of the year imo

― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, April 1, 2019 10:24 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

will read, share

you can't be pro sex work and excuse this behavior imo

i don't seen anyone excusing it

people not being particularly exercised by it is a different thing

jim and yerac thoroughly otm.

i was not equating the two
things can be fucked up and be way less fucked up than say bill cosby

going to be trenchant here but would be weird to cancel cardi b over this when there are male rappers we lionize who probably have killed people

we're through the looking glass here people

nice engagement, paul. thanks for playing

clarification, my post wasn't addressing anyone specifically here, but rather the general push and push and push that this should even be a thing besides her narrative of what she had to do to survive. Feel free to have complicated feelings about any men vlogging about needing to rape to survive.

lmao

@ this thread

Seems pretty straightforward to me. What she did was not cool but seeing as johns can and should go fuck themselves it's really not that big a deal. No, it's not the same thing as a prominent dude drugging and raping a woman (do we really need to remind people of this?) - at worst, it's aggravated theft. And rapper dudes brag about way less acceptable shit than aggravated theft all the time. Should she get away with it? I personally don't give the ghost of a fuck but if you start asking these kinds of moral questions, apply your inquisitorial logic beyond Cardi B.

wtf is a john?

hahahaha

correct me if i'm wrong? but i think it's a fan of gorillaz

Slang word for a user of prostitution.

Bringing other rappers and Bill Cosby into it is total whataboutery, it's like saying Cosby isn't as bad as R Kelly because at least he didn't enslave loads of women.

"What she did was not cool but seeing as johns can and should go fuck themselves it's really not that big a deal."

What is worse:
1. paying for sex
2. drugging and robbing multiple people

I'm pro sex workers and anti sex work so there's your answer.

Not sure how that works, practically.

That's an interesting take. Just sounds like slut-shaming to me.

Nah. That's bad faith and you know it.

Um, why?

Because my position doesn't imply shaming or blaming sex workers for anything? On the contrary? I mean, plenty of countries have legislations that allow the sale of sex but not its purchase (Canada, France, Sweden, Norway, Ireland).

No, but you're shaming the other partner in the relationship.

Oh, so there's the plot twist. Yeah, sure, I'm cool that.

But why?

Because there’s a reason economically privileged women tend not to become sex workers, just as there’s a reason more than 2/3 of Germany’s brothels are filled with foreign sex workers. There are exceptions, of course, but as a general rule most women, when given the choice, opt for other ways to make a living. I wonder why?

knowing she really did that makes me like the music more

Otm

Cardi: not a studio thug

love this

Woke #UP to a new @iamcardib song today so had to cover it!
Watch on https://t.co/bFFr7nleNw pic.twitter.com/GKSKDRpF3x

— Chloe Flower (@ChloeFlower) February 5, 2021

These options are very mild.

not feeling the new song much yet

gonna be a hit anyway

haven't heard the new one either but if it has piano in it that's anything like what's in that video i'm sold

funny to think that back in 2017 people were wondering if Bodak Yellow would be just a flash in the pan and now it only feels like a small part of her career

Up sounds good on first listen!

Bodak Yellow is: Diamond
https://www.vulture.com/2021/03/cardi-b-bodak-yellow-certified-diamond-history.html

I'm sorry not to know anything, did she do other tracks with a hard staccato flow like Bartier Cardi?

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/9544280/cardi-b-up-number-one-hot-100
First female rapper to chart 5 #1 tracks on Billboard Hot 100 with an amazingly bizarre selection of crossover and noncrossover hits

so...is she ever putting out another album? seems like something weird is going on at this point

gotta think something's coming early next year

she's indicated in interviews that becoming a parent really got in the road, but i don't think that's the only thing

She just won a $3.8mm verdict in a defamation suit against a YouTuber (Cardi took the stand and everything), but not sure how much something like that would slow the wheels.

so...is she ever putting out another album? seems like something weird is going on at this point

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, October 31, 2022 5:03 PM (seven months ago) bookmarkflaglink

i wonder if it's ever coming out

....seven months pass

great verse here tho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WtNCR3EDS4

I think she kind of retired to be a mother.

wtf is a john?

― Mr. Snrub, Monday, April 1, 2019 6:48 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

hahahaha

― cheese canopy (map), Monday, April 1, 2019 6:53 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

correct me if i'm wrong? but i think it's a fan of gorillaz

― cheese canopy (map), Monday, April 1, 2019 6:56 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Can't remember if this has been discussed upthread, but what would be the benefit of her putting out another album at this point? Why not just drops songs/features every few months for the rest of time?

I guess an album rollout would be a bigger publicity bump, but she seems to be doing just fine.

Album is usually linked to a tour, which she may not be ready for yet.

i think she pretty quickly reached the level of celebrity where, in terms of income, music becomes a secondary concern. at this point she has definitely done a number of endorsement deals that brought or bring her more money than she makes off even a big hit. and i don't think it's an insult to cardi to say that music was prob a means to an end for her as opposed to an insatiable burning artistic desire. and those ends have been reached

haha yeah i guess i think of musicians as wanting to make albums because they like making albums but i guess this is definitely more of an overall entertainment brand thing.

i suppose in a way, an album is risky, if it's perceived as a dud it would damage things.

i don't mean to imply that she's never gonna put an album out again or anything. i'm positive she's recorded more than enough music in the last few years to put another full length out. but given that she's raising kids, makes more money off non music endeavors and is still collecting off huge hits... i don't think there's an onus on her to do much more than highly selective features. i think president keyes is right that it will prob be tied to when she's ready to go out on the road

all aligned with what i was thinking ... i can't remember if she has *ever* toured extensively, but yeah ... she doesn't need touring or an album at this point.

we'll probably get a new album and tour in 10 years or w/e when other revenues decline.

i guess i asked my question because i don't think there's necessarily something weird going on.

also, Cardi seems like she'd be a fun mom!

yeah that all makes a lot of sense

still tru, btw:

Get Up 10 is fire

― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown)

just reiterating that her verse on this is really good, even better than "tomorrow 2" imo