Bang Bang You're Dead... POLL In Your Head - ILM Artist Poll #87 - SMASHING PUMPKINS - Results

https://i.imgur.com/hp3igr2.jpg

40 Ballots Received
129 Songs Received Votes
34 Album Ballots Received
14 Albums Received Votes

What you chose was your choice, and I'll soon be rolling out the core, the heart music - the top 9 releases today followed by top 66 tracks starting tomorrow.

Yes!

(to the title specifically)

Album ballots were weighted 10-8-6-4-2

https://i.imgur.com/seTaj1H.jpg
9. 1979 EP
10 points, 2 votes

https://media.giphy.com/media/kmoqyJci0zRNC/source.gif

1979 is the first thing i ever owned by them and i used to listen to the EP over and over and over

hell yes

tbh my suggestion did not deserve to win out over "ballot with butterfly wings"

^^^ OTM.

Again, thanks for taking over and doing this post for me. Very excited to see this rollout.

https://i.imgur.com/VEwrjsa.jpg
8. The Aeroplane Flies High
12 Points, 3 Votes

I'm listening to Siamese Dream in anticipation. My least favourite of their classic era for some reason (bit stuck in a grunge-rock gear for me) but still great

I thought The Aeroplane Flies High might do a little better than that but this is about where I'd put it. There's a few gems throughout it but most of the tracks feel like they were B-Sides for a reason

I wanted TAFH so much when I was a teenager but also it was way more expensive than i could afford

Post should have read Poll above,stupid auto correct.

tbh my suggestion did not deserve to win out over "ballot with butterfly wings"

― Simon H., Wednesday, 4 April 2018 13:50 (thirty-two minutes ago) Permalink

yours is better because it's sincerely a great moment imo. stoked for this.

OTM. "Silverfuck" missed my ballot but it deserves to be memorialized.

sames. i'd completely forgotten about it tbh

how much did TAFH cost? I want to guess $70. Was it more than buying the singles on their own?

It was something like that iirc. I remember already having bought BWBW and 1979 ep's. It was only after that they announced the box, damnit.

I voted for the 1979 EP rather than Aeroplane as a whole because it's such a great collection of songs that fit together well - that said I've never actually owned a copy of either (and also looking at Discogs the original UK CD single only had four tracks - 1979/Ugly/Believe/Cherry)

yeah, were there more on the US one then? In the UK Zero had something like 8 or 9 tracks plus a medley IIRC

https://i.imgur.com/hN36d17.jpg
7. Machina II/The Friends & Enemies Of Modern Music
16 points, 7 votes

The US 'maxi-single' looks to be the one with all six songs (xpost).

MII still among the very weirdest "final" acts for a major band

It doesn't really work as an album at all but there's a lot of stuff I really like on it, especially Real Love, Home, and In My Body.

The production is very weird but I like it much more than Machina I's, especially the softer tracks which have a beautiful dream-goth-noise feeling.

I've only listened to Machina II in full twice, via crappy YouTube rip... I can do without the stuff on the EPs (apart from 'Vanity') but the album itself is OK.

https://i.imgur.com/9jxeIF8.jpg
6. Machina/The Machines of God
38 points, 9 votes

i voted for machina real high so i'm glad it got this far and beat machina ii

also i love that the 1979 ep technically placed twice

it's got "cherry" and "jerry" on it so it deserves it

Machina made my ballot at the last minute, it's definitely flawed but so much of it is great.

definitely grew to appreciate Machina I more with this poll. there's easily a great album between the best of the two Machinas though it could really use a redone mix

https://i.imgur.com/shNXrn1.jpg
5. Gish
126 points, 24 votes, 2 #1 votes

I should listen more to Gish. I never completely clicked with it as such, although I never disliked it and like a couple of songs a lot. It sometimes feels like Jane's Addiction worship to me. This version of "Bury Me" is pretty great, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW3f2k6zb7Y

That was minutes after D'arcy and James broke up.

cumulative effect of gish is so great and captures them in a really interesting protean state (between their post-punky beginnings and the less psychedelic more candied sound of sd) where they were extremely focused on floral patterns and guitar solos and which they basically never revisited again except in brief flashes like "hummer" and "rocket"

it confused me a lot when i first heard it when i was 13. billy with long hair almost felt like a different band to me (and kinda still does)

I forgot that Wretzky and Iha ever dated.

My favourite songs on it are Rhinoceros and Snail which are the closest to where they went on Siamese Dream. The rest feels very different in sensibility to anything else they did pretty much.

lmao the intro to that video sund4r posted

Long haired Jimmy is the weirdest

i like james' taste in dresses

If Adore is above Gish then it's too high.

it is not

Billy making do with a broken low E string like a minute into the song

it....clearly is! xps

this isn't the first time i'll say this itt but jimmy's a fucking monster

since i started learning drums a year ago i've begun to understand exactly what he's doing on each track and it's incomprehensible and humbling

he's also an extremely busy player but few of his parts ever feel busy which is remarkable

so breezy and musical yet so dense

Jimmy is probably my favourite rock drummer ever

Bury Me is so good. That wound up placing high on my ballot, even beating a certain other great Jimmy track. I never owned this on CD so I was less familiar with it before now. Bury Me, Snail, Rhinoceros, and Crush are the ones I love most.

it was so frustrating seeing them in 94 & watching Billy keep getting ahead of Jimmy, trying to speed up the songs midway through. of course Jimmy was up to it but it felt like a dick move & it didn't make the songs better because they kept changing awkwardly.

https://i.imgur.com/RLZ4J0N.jpg
4. Pisces Iscariot
140 points, 25 votes, 3 #1 votes

well i wasn't expecting adore to beat pisces with this crowd so i concede that my first favorite album of all time is prob too high for most

I rarely pull PI out but it really is the most cohesive outtakes record ever

i more readily listen to pisces than sd these days. also i almost made "whir" no. 1 on my ballot

Same for me, and I've 'Whir' up there too.

Pisces is very solid for an outtakes comp but most of it does feel like outtakes for a reason to me. The few tracks that don't though are incredible - Blew Away is James' best, Starla is great obviously, no idea how Obscured didn't make Gish. Whir is nice too but I wouldn't really trade anything on Siamese Dream for it.

fwiw I rated Adore really high on albums but only picked 1 song for my ballot. maybe a lot of others did the same? it works the best as a regular album out of all of them imo

xp Obscured was recorded for SD

I did the same, flappy

fwiw I rated Adore really high on albums but only picked 1 song for my ballot. maybe a lot of others did the same? it works the best as a regular album out of all of them imo

oh good i'm glad someone else thinks this

https://i.imgur.com/Ic8dhTa.jpg
3. Adore
156 points, 22 votes, 6 #1 votes

SD is so cohesive, even monochromatic in its sound, and even though the songs on Adore can be pretty different in style or production (like Appels + Oranjes vs. Dusty + Pistol Pete vs. Ava Adore vs. To Sheila), the feeling of wandering and being lost runs through Adore in a really compelling way. and the way it begins so hopefully with To Sheila and ends on such a down note with Blank Page.

I think SD would just edge out Adore as best to listen to as a whole for me these days. Adore is a little too long but I suppose that does add to the feeling of getting lost in it. Shame through to Blank Page is probably my favourite sequence on any of their albums.

just realized I still have my original CD copies of PI and MCIS, o happy day

they're similar in the sense that they're both really desperate and reaching, big gamble records, where on SD they were determined not to make a dog of an album and go back to working in record stores and serving coffee, and on Adore they're searching like I said and trying to come to terms with losing Jimmy.

and that's not even getting into the lyrics

I don't really know how to reconcile 'Adore is too long' with 'Eye should probably have been put on it somewhere' and the only thing I'd definitely cut is Annie-Dog

Shame through to Blank Page is probably my favourite sequence on any of their albums

otm. hit after hit. the atmosphere they get out of a song as simple as "shame" is remarkable

Gish is sounding pretty nice now. "Snail" is really good. Maybe it just sounded too much like other things of the time in the 90s, idk? P sure Adore will never really be my thing but it was def a daring move for them.

XP

That makes three of us!

whoever said Snail is like the MCIS epics condensed into 4 minutes is so so so OTM

every guitar line in "snail" is fucking amazing

it was painful to not be able to vote for it

my #10

3:24 this octave progression omg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS-ThN4aEDU

When you wake up you're all weak / POLLING your life away

https://i.imgur.com/UcjcOSp.jpg
2. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
218 points, 29 votes, 10 #1 votes

https://i.imgur.com/ZL2EDRT.jpg
1. Siamese Dream
252 points, 32 votes, 13 #1 votes

fair

Justice

Siamese Dream
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Gish
Pisces Iscariot
Adore

I voted for more Mellon Collie tracks, but SD is the albumest album

hard to argue with these results

sd is really beautifully paced for a record that's an hour long

close enough

re: results

I can't believe gish is only no.5. By far their most fascinating album if you ask me. So full of psychedelic goodness. The drumming always totally kills me. A monster of an album. The only album after that i liked was mellon collie as it was so varied.

first album i ever bought on CD. zero regrets.

xpost to SD pacing comment

also alex otm – had i voted, i woulda had Gish as #2.

I had Gish #2. I ignored it for a long time and was blown away when I finally looked backward from SD.

everyone feels so locked in for 45 minutes.

sd is really beautifully paced for a record that's an hour long

really all of their pre-Machina albums are perfectly paced, Billy's deep listening habits paid off when it came time to arrange his own records

Full album results:

1 Siamese Dream 252 32 13
2 Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness 218 29 10
3 Adore 156 22 6
4 Pisces Iscariot 140 25 3
5 Gish 126 24 2
6 MACHINA/the machines of God 38 9 0
7 Machina II/The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music 16 7 0
8 The Aeroplane Flies High 12 3 0
9 1979 EP 10 2 0
10 Lull EP 6 2 0
10 Ogilala 6 1 0
12 Rarities and B-Sides 4 1 0
14 Earphoria 2 1 0
14 Zero EP 2 1 0

Billy's deep listening habits paid off when it came time to arrange his own records

I will choose to interpret this as meaning that Corgan was a seasoned participant in Pauline Oliveros's sonic meditation exercises.

lol

http://www.crestfallen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/bc_bv.jpg

lol at no one voting for oceania

yeah i was a little surprised that ogilala (not even a pumpkins album!) was the only post-machinas album to get a vote

No real surprises yet - I fully expected Adore to be up there, as much as I disagree with it, particularly not over Gish but I think Corgan was on form during the MACHINA period, it just wasn't presented in the best way.

Someone had Ogilala at number 3.

I would have voted for Mary Star of the Sea if I'd allowed it though. my ranking:

MCIS
SD
Adore
(Mary Star of the Sea)
(hypothetical Machinas best of)
Gish
Machina II

No votes for Oceania because I didn't submit a ballot.

couldn't decide which 25 pumpkins songs were actually worth talking about eh

xp nice

anyway I'm sure there will be surprises for some of you in the tracks rollout

No, I couldn't be arsed - putting together a ballot wasn't a priority and I would have found it impossible anyway. I'm sure almost every song that places will be at the least very good, as long as people haven't got stupid and filled their ballots full of lower tier b-sides.

what's your favorite b-side turrican

Policing what people should talk about in the voting thread was a priority

xpost:

'Starla'! Looking at the tracklisting for Pisces Iscariot, I could have easily voted for stuff like 'Whir' and 'Frail+Bedazzled' but not all of their B-sides/outtakes are of the same quality.

Mellon Collie
Siamese Dream
1979 EP
Pisces Iscariot
MACHINA

Gish was in the #5 spot until late on - the softer psychedelic moments really make that album for me. I can definitely get behind Siamese Dream as #1, it was my favourite for years but I've just come to love the unwieldy sprawl of MCIS even more.

my albums ballot:

Mellon Collie
Adore
Pisces Iscariot
Siamese Dream
Gish

Albums:

Adore
MACHINA/the machines of god
Siamese Dream
Pisces Iscariot
Machina II: Friends and Enemies of Modern Music

huh, forgot i even voted for machina ii

My album ballot:
Siamese Dream
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Pisces Iscariot

1. Siamese Dream
2. Gish
3. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness

Siamese Dream
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Pisces Iscariot
Adore
Gish

Siamese Dream
Gish
Ogilala
Pisces Iscariot
MCIS

Ogilala at 3 is probably a challop, but I can listen to those first three albums the whole way through and enjoy every second. There are tracks on PI, MCIS, and Adore that I rate very high above anything on Ogilala. I'm sure Ogilala benefits from being fresh at the moment as well.

Pisces Iscariot
Adore
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness

mine was

Adore
Siamese Dream
Mellon Collie
Gish
Machina II

Pisces Iscariot
Siamese Dream
Gish
Mellon Collie
Adore

I shoulda voted for the Zero EP! I played the hell out of that back in the day.

Adore
Gish
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Machina I/The Machines of God
Machina II/Friends and Enemies of Modern Music

I can live with where Adore placed.

I should’ve voted for the Pastichio Medley

Flappy, I did! :)

champagne for my five real friends who also had adore at no. 1

I've got my glass ready, Brad

Flappy, I did! :)

Listening to SD (again) now. I didn't really think about the timeline before: so Loveless was released six months after Gish, which might go some way towards explaining the change in their sound between these two albums.

Yea that’s why Billy got Alan Moulder to mix it

Ah, interesting. I didn't know he explicitly sought Moulder out for that reason.

I've got my glass ready, Brad

― The Harsh Tutelage of Michael McDonald (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, April 4, 2018 2:31 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wish i had a good picture of me drinking with my tattoo visible but all i have is this single chocolate

https://i.imgur.com/zbnFptb.png

*bows down*

oh hell yes

Perfect. Lock thread.

anticipating tomorrow. or the next few days. i'm sure this song will place high. i never liked it, never understood why it was so beloved, i don't dislike it, i'm not sure... but this is an amazing performance. the sound of the distortion kicking in is so amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu3jh91rCiY

gonna have to crack open a thesaurus for more superlatives tonight

It's kind of smashing pumpkins' purple rain

yeap, will be in the Top 3.

holy shit Purple Rain comparison is OTM. they actually begin with the same chord (Bsus2)

i think it could potentially be no. 1

which, i'd be down

xp

and both feature Eb. but yeah. in mood and feeling it's totally their Purple Rain

flappy you've never liked "mayonaise" :O

:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

it also features a toy guitar feedback track that adds loveless style studio intrigue. it won a rolling stone readership poll lol.

yeah it's either 1979 or Mayo at #1. i can't think of anything else that has more broad appeal among hardcore & casual pumpkins fans

xp yeah i don't know... it feels so on the nose, so much of a trad "power ballad," i mean that Purple Rain comparison is so so otm... the feedback squeals are great obv, i don't like the lyrics, but that hasn't stopped with me plenty of pumpkins songs lol... it feels stock somehow, whereas idk, Hummer is utterly of another world and impossible to categorize. Soma is maybe the other SD track most similar to Mayo, and I've never liked that one either that much, it just feels less obvious... like Mayo sounds like a song that was always written, but in a bad way... if that makes sense. it probably doesn't

no sentence with bad and mayonaise will make sense to me

but I can certainly understand preferring hummer and soma

i like to imagine that billy saw jimmy put a dollop of mayo in his chili at lunch. billy scooted his chair back, making a screeching sound that silenced the room. he exited the cafeteria and went straight to the tour bus where he wrote mayonaise. the feedback is a reference to the room-silencing sound of that chair.

all things relative with SP, honestly by anyone else a masterpiece imo. it feels out of place coming from them, being so obvious and... almost like an attempt by another band at writing a great smashing pumpkins song (and not a parody)

i ran this poll:

Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream poll

Option Votes
9. Mayonaise 24
1. Cherub Rock 14
7. Soma 11
8. Geek U.S.A. 10
3. Today 7
5. Rocket 6
4. Hummer 4
11. Silverfuck 4
6. Disarm 3
12. Sweet Sweet 1
10. Spaceboy 1
2. Quiet 1
13. Luna 0

Luna getting shut out... I don't even know what to say

It's no "Hummer" or "Soma" but it... really doesn't sound like a generic ca. 1993 power ballad to me. I like how it takes its time. I don't think vocals even enter until about a minute and a half in? 2xp

the problem with ranking Siamese Dream songs is that something has to be last.

Disarm has to be last, not Luna.

I hope Disarm places. So easy to make fun of the lyrics, but unlike a few of the MCIS singles, the song is great

it will make the Top 66

Mayonaise just has a perfect chord progression (written by James!). I'd never thought about Purple Rain as a comparison point before but that's really otm. it's Purple Rain meets Loveless

"Today" is probably my least favorite from SD tbh

v likely Billy's most effortless-seeming set of lyrics, too xp

the guitar solo in the intro is so subtle and expressive

the pinch harmonics take me out of it a bit tbh

nice work on the thread title

you're welcome

intro to mayo made me love this tho

https://media.musiciansfriend.com/is/image/MMGS7/M-107-Phase-100-Effects-Pedal/151106000000000-00-500x500.jpg

The intro to Mayo (intro de Mayo?) is always what comes to mind when I think "what does a Strat sound like?"

my albums poll:

Adore
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
MACHINA/the machines of God
Siamese Dream
Pisces Iscariot

I've never quite gelled with Siamese Dream. Like someone said upthread, it's concise and monochromatic. I have difficulty discerning between all the songs, especially on the first side. And while I love certain tracks (Soma especially) it's just not as exciting as what else is on offer in the rest of their catalogue.

And I've always felt like Disarm is a massive drag.

if were doing a "Worst Smashing Pumpkins Songs" Poll, I'd strongly have to consider "Disarm" as my number one - and that's even though I either dislike/haven't heard/don't care about most Pumpkins songs after 2001.

had no idea Disarm was so bad and hated. Always assumed I was on my own in that one.

I don't know if it's universally hated? I've just always recoiled from it - when I was a teenager who listened to Siamese Dream too much, it was that song I always rushed to skip. Why? Not the music so much, but the lyric and the vocal, maybe because - as I think about it now - it was too direct, too personal, too naked, or something. And it's not the only early Pumpkins song that was extra intimate, but this took that to an uncomfortable level, with a drama (?) that turned me off and still does.

Disarm is the first one I heard and I have massive affection for it. Siamese Dream in general is the one where they just nail and perfect their aesthetic, they never quite get it right after that so I suspect Butch Vig was a masssive influence.

I can sometimes get into it if I'm really in a mood for it but I usually skip it (and "Spaceboy" *ducks*). U mad otherwise though, dog latin.

I really like "Tonight Tonight" and "Thirty-three" so it's not just ballad hate.

Knowing that Disarm lurks inside of Siamese Dream is probably the primary reason I don't go on Smashing Pumpkins kicks more often. Goddamn overplayed black-and-white old man Unforgiven video was a plague on MTV.

To echo something a few people have said above: I find it hard to return to SD at all now, for the same reason that it's hard to listen to a lot of albums I listened to too often in high school. See also Nevermind and early Pearl Jam.

Maybe I'll learn to like it in this poll, but it was pretty traumatic for me at the time.

'Disarm' was also the first song I heard by them (a Now compilation I think). It wasn't until I heard a student band do a cover of 'Today' in a school assembly that I figured the Pumpkins might be worth checking out. Then I got '1979' and thought 'huh this is nothing like I was expecting'

I loved this strange wonderful album of washed-out guitar epics. It was kind of a letdown when the song the world loved from it was this one atypical over-emoting ballad with a ridiculous tautology in its chorus.

Same with Mellon Collie I guess. For an album that indulges in its diversity, the favourite and big single (1979) sounds absolutely alone in terms of style (and lyrics)

Lol, now I want to listen to "Disarm". I'll admit that when I first listened to the album, even "Disarm" seemed like a weird song to be 'the ballad' in a world where Aerosmith was still making the most popular rock ballads.

Play bass like you're barely alive!
https://media.giphy.com/media/9Y5ddKxG7nULYJUZhT/giphy.gif

Breathe through your mouth, James (don't breathe too much).
https://media.giphy.com/media/1XhrmivUUrrxtCPRrH/giphy.gif

Drink of this cup, for it is...oh, maybe better not.
https://media.giphy.com/media/fiwkwEt2SpwNhwrU7L/giphy.gif

Yeah, I mostly remembered why I usually skip it.

I can sometimes get into it if I'm really in a mood for it but I usually skip it (and "Spaceboy" *ducks*).

I don't like Spaceboy either, it just kind of drags. Disarm isn't a terrible song but the strings and bells are too much for me.

I like "Spaceboy" a lot

Currently trying to reconfigure the MCIS era tracks as one long single-dsc album + one "outtakes" album a la SD + PI. For some reason I never tire of resequencing these songs.

my albums ballot:

Siamese Dream
Pisces Iscariot
Adore
Gish
Mellon Collie

except for 1979 I could exchange Mellon Collie & the first Machina. Mellon Collie has a few other good singles but as an album experience I'd rather avoid it (oh & Galapogos is good too).

I kinda feel about Siamese Dream vs Mellon Collie the way I do about Monster vs New Adventures In Hi-Fi : I strongly prefer the earlier of each pair but ILM seems to lean the other way, & I wonder if it's related to which one you got into first.

ILM voted Siamese Dream #1!

haha that's true! I didn't notice lol @ me. I was responding to the latest line of discussion against Siamese Dream, I guess.

https://i.imgur.com/tuAhTCG.jpg
66. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
110 points, 3 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

who voted this #1?! absolute madman (in a good way)

Ha, this is the brief instrumental that opens the album?

yes

Not my number one, but I can kinda understand. Gets stuck in my head a hell of a lot.

This has me wondering how much of MCIS is gonna place. I'm gonna say 20 out of 28.

this placing where it did is a big part of why I decided to go with 66 tracks for the rollout (as well as the 33 connection), it was too fitting. it's a nice intro and I like the reprises at the end of the album and in Thru the Eyes of Ruby

for reference track ballots were scored 50-48-46-44-...-8-6-4-2

It wouldn't have made my ballot, but if I had to condense Mellon Collie down to Siamese Dream, I'd still retain it as I love it.

*Siamese Dream length.

I agree with that. Whenever I try removing it, it just sounds wrong.

https://i.imgur.com/7thm3Ic.jpg
65. Stumbleine
112 points, 6 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

I prefer 'Mellon Collie' to 'Tonight Tonight'. It's a sweet little intro to what's to come and then Tonight Tonight comes in with its mid-tempo bluster and I hit the skip button. Didn't vote for it but hah at the number 1

I must have been listening to the White Album at the same time as Mellon Collie cos Stumbleine sounds like an answer to Cry Baby Cry whenever I hear it

the mellon collie title track is such a good way of opening this. kudos ufo. can’t believe it made no. 66 exactly

I usually skip straight to "Tonight Tonight", honestly. I'm a huge fan of instrumental music but "Mellon Collie" seems pretty uninteresting to me. I do like "Stumbleine" a lot, although it didn't make my ballot.

I'm the opposite -- I don't like listening to "Tonight Tonight" without "Mellon Collie" before it. Or at least it lessens the effect of the *pow* of "Tonight Tonight"'s strings if I skip it.

I don't have much to say about 'Stumbleine' other than that I like it.

Sam Weller OTM. I heard 'Tonight, Tonight' as a single first before hearing it in the context of the album, but after living with the album for 23 years it doesn't feel right without 'Mellon Collie' preceding it.

I like the reprises at the end of the album and in Thru the Eyes of Ruby

I somehow never clued in that that was a reprise in TtEoR.

I didn't vote for it but the Mellon Collie intro is a perfect opener for both album and rundown.

Stumbleine didn't make my final ballot either but the live version posted on the voting thread really made me appreciate it more. It also feels like a precursor to Adore.

https://i.imgur.com/yz6vz9D.jpg
64. The Boy
116 points, 4 votes
From: 1979 EP/The Aeroplane Flies High, 1996

Nice! In terms of James songs I was torn between this and "...Said Sadly", but voted "The Boy."

I'm intrigued by how many votes it takes to make the top 66 (and how many points!)

My #1 may just show up!!!!

Never heard (of) that one before. It's a nice breezy little tune.

Hearing this for the first time and I like it.

The boy the boy
's in love

Nice! In terms of James songs I was torn between this and "...Said Sadly", but voted "The Boy."

I voted for both in the end but had this one higher, it was an immediate favourite when I finally started listening through the Aeroplane stuff.

“the boy” showed up without needing my vote for it! hooray!

imo it’s james’ best song and should’ve been on mellon collie between oh say “arms of sleep” and “1979,” that would’ve been cool

“said sadly” is so good too

https://i.imgur.com/HsEBtTh.jpg
63. Glass and the Ghost Children
118 points, 4 votes
From: Machina/The Machines of God, 2000

mercifully low

So it's all very obtuse, because it's all, like, I don't know.

so all my past demagoguery

I only really like the first part, but the monologue is pretty funny.

I quickly became sick of Disarm at the time, but twenty years of perspective had mellowed me a lot. I found it never fit within the maximalism of the rest of SD, now I find myself moved by its honesty and simplicity.

I find "Disarm" really moving, lyrically.

I had no memory of "Glass etc". As with other Machina songs, I'm able to get something out of it now that I'm listening to a live version.

https://i.imgur.com/5GqOj17.jpg
62. Farewell and Goodnight
120 points, 4 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

I love the first section of Glass and the Ghost Children but the rest really drags, if the outro was cut down so the total length was 6 minutes at most it'd be great

OK wtf @ this piano break in "Glass" xp! (Right at the 6m mark of a live clip, ha)

that's mike garson!

doin' his mike garson thing

drumming in the first part of glass is so good

There are so many parallels on this album with The White Album. This song included. A sleepy closer by a non-frontman wishing the audience goodnight. Both of them do their job fine, kind of sweet but kind of boring in equal measure

it's nice to hear them all harmonize especially bc of the way the band fractured afterward

yeah I wouldn't have voted for it but it's a very sweet closer. (my single-disc edit ends with "Tonight, Tonight", incidentally)

bold

I think it's wonderful. The piano leading into the second verse is my favourite part.

i never try to reduce mellon collie to a single disc, i just try to make a better double album out of it. it's improbably difficult

I couldn't pick between the last five songs on Mellon Collie and wound up voting for three of them. I wouldn't want to break up that section.

here's the attempt i made a few years ago. first disc: title track -> thirty-three. second disc: medellia -> infinite sadness https://open.spotify.com/user/unbornwhiskey/playlist/4MWIKGgMknTs6PsiCCGCSd?si=DuaxTKTZRXSuX-rJT9O2Vg

the most aggro tracks on my version are "jellybelly" and "bodies" so it's a considerably gentler vision of mellon collie than the real one

https://i.imgur.com/xtEV5ha.jpg
61. X.Y.U.
122 points, 5 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

and in the eyes of the jackal i say kaaaaaaaaaaaboom

def did a lot of very sill thrashing around to this when I was a wee lad

This is the Helter Skelter, I guess?

this is one of my least favourites on Mellon Collie, way too aggro for my tastes

oh this is their most aggro track I think

yeah totally Helter Skelter

i like it more than "fuck you" or "tales" bc it's more fun than either

the 'waka waka ka-BOOM BOOM' bit is fantastic

which btw if we're gonna extend the white album analogy it kinda falls apart when there are three helter skelters on the record

conceding that both albums have a "each individual song will cover a different sonic territory" approach though

my "single-CD-capacity version" plus "odds and sods record" edit (the second part starts at "Medelia"). I reserve the right to keep fiddling with it lol

https://open.spotify.com/user/suckerblues/playlist/1KLJKzcVFnkfgTSXLzKZz6?si=0f5pSSQ8T8qEmQxSni_-5w

xxp it is half an hour longer than TWA. of course there isn't going to be a direct parallel but it's funny how the connection works at times

lol i just changed mine three times xp

my edit is kinda specifically arranged so the mood of the album gradually goes from dark -> light so it's like a sunrise

my current single disc MCIS:
Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
Tonight, Tonight
Thirty-Three
1979
Here is No Why
Jellybelly
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
To Forgive
Thru The Eyes of Ruby
Stumbleine
Beautiful
Galapogos
Muzzle
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
By Starlight
Farewell and Goodnight

re: White Album comparisons Corgan's said that his goal with MCIS was more The Wall rather than The White Album

another record that seems to jump between styles between songs

they're my favourite kinds of albums

https://i.imgur.com/DoU0nBH.jpg
60. Disarm
124 points, 6 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

Good placement.

The Wall for Generation X xps

"We're the best band in the world and we can do anything" albums

I still really like Disarm, it's nice as a change in sound on SD and the strings are lovely, especially in the climax "the killer in me is the killer in youuuuuuu"

burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrn

Mellon Collie was my #1 song

the transition between "rocket" and "disarm" is so good as someone pointed out on the voting thread

lol flappy!!!!!

On some days it’s my favorite piece of music. Says more than anything else on the record without any words.

MCIS was one of the first things I ever learned on piano.

I guess we should be grateful "Disarm" avoided getting the Johnny Cash American Records treatment

Would have been pretty great in fairness.

MCIS was one of the first things I ever learned on piano.

X.Y.U. - that bit where he sings 'BWABEEEH GOODBYYYE (bye bye)' is pure lol. That song is just lol-a-minute but also kind of scary.

https://i.imgur.com/3UdrHqL.jpg
59. Suffer
128 points, 5 votes
From: Gish, 1991

ah good some Gish action. I don't remember how this one goes, so this bodes well for the rest of the poll

great song, it still pops into my head all the time

the "too late to discover" secret chorus buried in that song is kinda the peak of psychedelic pumpkins for me (well after all of "snail" and "rhinoceros")

the only pumpkins song to feature a psychedelic slide whistle solo?

oh it's this one. it's great. makes me think of sea merchants in top down RPGs

Disarm at 60 is kind of wild. It's their 6th most popular song on Spotify and, like it or not, one of the iconic Pumpkins songs.

bead curtains and hookah pipes in aural form

xp ILM has always been contrary. Like when we voted 'Good Vibrations' as the worst song on Smiley Smile

"disarm" is also one of their best videos imo

for a band whose fame coincided with the peak of '90s mtv most of their music videos are kinda weird fiascos though

Disarm was the first song I learned on guitar (MCIS was the second) so I'll always have a soft spot for it.

'Glass and the Ghost Children' is a stunner - one of the tracks on MACHINA that works, although I have a preference for the first part. 'Farewell and Goodnight' is pretty, but I never find myself listening to it as a standalone track, always in context. 'x.y.u.' was a grower for me back when I first heard the album, but fucking love it now.

Mellon Collie and The Beatles both have this "every song given its own distinct sonic treatment" feel, as Brad says, but I think Mellon Collie is more excessive and a better record. There's a lot of stuff on The Beatles which is tossed off fluff, but Corgan for the most part just can't leave things alone, and that's why Mellon Collie works for me. Quantity, diversity and quality.

I sometimes get the one-word song titles on Gish mixed up but yeah I like this one a lot (although I heard the Tricky song that samples it first so it took a bit of getting used to).

'Suffer' is great - love the drumming and the way everything generally sounds on the track. I rate the two songs after it on Gish higher, though!

although I heard the Tricky song that samples it first

i COMPLETELY forgot about this

re: White Album comparisons Corgan's said that his goal with MCIS was more The Wall rather than The White Album

https://i.imgur.com/59BeivE.jpg
58. Tear
134 points, 4 votes
From: Adore, 1998

https://i.imgur.com/M4Xrzvi.jpg
58. Real Love
134 points, 7 votes
From: Machina II/The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music, 2000

He should have lied and told everyone it was a concept album, just to see what crazy meanings the hardcore would read into it while trying to figure out what the non-existent concept was.

Ah, not a huge fan of either of these, although the riff on 'Tear' is quite nice.

He should have lied and told everyone it was a concept album, just to see what crazy meanings the hardcore would read into it while trying to figure out what the non-existent concept was.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:00 AM (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean it's not like machina's concept is meaningful or interesting so he essentially did this later for a different album

overdriven machina-style production really works on "real love," which is prob somewhat due to how much sunnier it is than anything that actually made the album

With Every Light isn't sunny enough for you?

At least MACHINA has a concept, though!

Hard to break through the Machina production on first listen. I think there's a nice synth in there.

Yeah, wtf, 'With Every Light' is one of their sunniest ever tracks.

This is all for the meantime, though there will be more some time later today.

I love Real Love, the best of the noisy Machina II production and reminiscent of YMMR-era MBV in its swirling rush. On the other hand, Tear is one of the weaker tracks on Adore and definitely two minutes too long - it'd be fine if that synth interlude was the outro.

With Every Light isn't sunny enough for you?

― Fetchboy, Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:04 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sunnier with a ton of distorted guitars, fine ("with every light" is a v sad song imo)

"Real Love" made my ballot. One of their most shoegaze-like tracks. It glistens.

like it or not, one of the iconic Pumpkins songs

I'm guessing enough of us were in the "not" camp.

"tear" was the first album track i enjoyed on adore before the rest of the record started making sense me, so i'll always love it even if i think it's the most obvious and obnoxious six minutes on the record

Originally written for Lost Highway but rejected by Lynch

the synth interlude is one of my favorite moments in the whole discography though. a lot of adore tracks feel like they become different songs in their bridges ("daphne," "behold the nightmare," "blank page" and this one)

ha, I'm just now seeing the pissy electric Disarm from the 1994 VMAs, which was apparently a 'fuck you' to MTV for forcing them to play that song

They did the same version on that English show The Word in early 94. They could’ve played anything they wanted (Green Day played Armatage Shanks the same night, a song that wouldn’t be released for another year). I look at that Disarm performance as the climax of the band/Billy’s attitude during Lollapalooza, which yes, is m/l “FUCK YOU”

they've always been a v antagonistic live band

i think it sucks for the most part (billy's live voice is intolerable between 94-... zwan?)

Also, it was banned from Top of the Pops for lyrical content advocating the cutting of little children?

but i love the arrangements on the adore tour so much that i suffer through it xp

a 'fuck you' to MTV for forcing them to play that song

Haha wtf

enjoying brad's alt.collie. good b-side inclusion, and the album really does benefit from fewer startling transitions. there are mid-track startling transitions anyway.

happy that disarm placed anywhere. was a necessary struggle to keep it on my ballot. lol @ flappy's #1, though I suppose he would choose the aperture to his favorite album which he can flap through.

and I love MCIS the song, too. not trying to criticize the choice.

'Real Love' is a really nice proto-Zwan track; 'Tear' I'm really not so keen on, too plodding, definitely one I'd cut from Adore.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" is so mournful, I once read something someone said about how it sounds like the end of a long, sad play- but it's the beginning of a two hour double album. the end is built into the beginning. as an overture, a thesis statement for the album's concept - that life is happy, life is sad, life is glorious, life is terrible, and everything in between - Billy somehow managed to convey all of that in less than 3 minutes on an instrument he wasn't even proficient in. it's so evocative on its own but also in the context of where the band was at in late 94/95 - they sensed the alt rock/grunge boom coming to an end, and MCIS was going to be their final rock statement before they moved on. and knowing everything horrible and amazing that happened in 1996, the song gains even more resonance. but above all, nothing else has spoken to me like this song as a summation of what life is like. wonderful, horrible, blessed, cursed, and won. nowhere and forever. without a care in this whole world. the beautiful, the tragic. mellon collie and the infinite sadness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4UML8qJNc

did he write it in a higher key or is the pitch off bc of the tape speed on that demo

good post, flappy. alt.collie increased my appreciation for Cherry, Set the Ray to Jerry, and Tonight, Tonight Reprise. But to my ears, The Boy doesn't really hold its own when placed in the album.

i don't blame you for feeling that way sufjan but i gotta live my truth

perhaps 3 others out there on ilm living it with you

thanks sufjan

brad - it's a mystery ha! because there's this video of him playing it for the MTV Rockumentary where it's in D minor instead of C#. maybe they sped the tape up or down a half step on the album? don't know why though. anyway this performance features a really beautiful intro to the song that doesn't appear anywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKo4eT38XS4

but yeah the tape speed on that first demo is probably running fast. given his limited piano playing abilities, it makes sense that he'd write it in a whole note scale (not that it's difficult to play in C# - though from what i remember of the Ravinia show recordings, he played it in D minor there too).

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" is so mournful, I once read something someone said about how it sounds like the end of a long, sad play

It doesn't sound like this to me at all - I think it's a pretty, scene setting piece of music that sets up the thundering intro of 'Tonight, Tonight' amazingly, but when I think "mournful", I think of some of the more downbeat tracks of The Cure circa 1980-1982 or some of the selections from Adore rather than this. It's also nice to have a musical theme to riff on to help cohere an all-over-the-map LP.

the mournful quality of the song comes from how innocent and naively pretty it is in the beginning, before moving suddenly to E and G#. it's a jolt, a sobering reminder, acknowledging that nothing lasts forever, that life can be turned upside down or obliterated at any moment. the movement from C# to E and G# shows that clash. i hear all of life within those 3 minutes: optimism, purity, cynicism, sorrow, resignation, determination, love lost and won. Billy goes on to work through his existential issues for the next two hours, but before Tonight, Tonight even begins, he's said it all without words. it's just a remarkable piece of music, an ersatz Debussy ditty that distills so much into so little. it's a monumental achievement and functions perfectly as the title track, because it contains everything that will follow, the spectrum bookended by the romance of Cupid or Lily or Beautiful to the fury of X.Y.U. or Bullet or Fuck You.

Hmm. E to G# isn't a change I'd normally describe as jarring, but still I'm glad you get all of that out of it. For me, the stuff that truly moves me comes much later on.

it's the movement from C# to E that's jarring. E and G# are the basis of the second part of the song.

flappy these are lovely words but there's no point in discussing this with Turrican. He's right about everything, even your own subjective POV

also wait lol who voted for X.Y.U. as their #1?? props. I think it was #15 or #16 on my ballot. So brutal and messy, one of the very few songs they recorded completely live, vocals and all. such a thrilling performance. a fitting apotheosis of rage followed by the gentle comedown of the final suite.

y'all it is dangerous to talk about chords

bang bang you're dead...chords in your thread

hahahaha

LOL

heh

lmao

also wait lol who voted for X.Y.U. as their #1?? props. I think it was #15 or #16 on my ballot. So brutal and messy, one of the very few songs they recorded completely live, vocals and all. such a thrilling performance. a fitting apotheosis of rage followed by the gentle comedown of the final suite.

― flappy bird, Thursday, April 5, 2018 6:22 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

YES! Absolutely OTM, 'x.y.u.' (as I've said before) was one of those tracks that grew on me over time, and sequencing-wise it really is the last gasp of the more angry stuff on the record. Talking of moments that are jarring, the transition from the intensity of 'x.y.u.' to 'We Only Come Out At Night' is a real sudden jolt in mood.

while we're waiting for the next batch of songs i've been watching this and enjoying it a lot (i never bought the sd deluxe edition so i didn't know it existed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHrabsv1JSg

All of these shifts in style and mood are part of the beauty of the record, of course, I just don't hear the title track the way flappy does. I'm not going to tell him he's wrong, though!

Are we done for the day? It has been a very good one for songs that *almost* made my ballot.

show i just posted might also be ground zero for billy trying out stupid irritating shit vocally

show i just posted might also be ground zero for billy trying out stupid irritating shit vocally

ooh thank you

Super relieved and stoked that Tear made it; late cut for me, one of my favorites from Adire. I remember one review comparing it to the Waterboys. It has a real nightpunk vibe

*Adore

the way he sings “I love you” in Hummer from that 3/15/93 has that Gish yodel

I am very much enjoying reading this thread. One of those threads where the discussion of the music is more interesting than the music itself. Except Gish of course but that album and the amazing songs on it have hardly been posted about. One thing I don't like about the albums after Gish is Corgan's vocal delivery which I have difficulties to digest as it seems so theatrical. On Gish I somehow buy his kind of angsty vocals.

I've often thought the vocal lines on Gish were almost additional guitar melodies, they kind of sit in to the tracks along with the other instruments. SD / wider exposure needed a "front man" type approach and the vocals were foregrounded. Probably why I think of Gish as a goth album and the others as rock.

Glad to see "Glass and the Ghost Children" place - the first of my votes to do so.

XYU - if we'd had a 50 track ballot limit I might have voted for it.

Missed today's roll-out, but off to a flying start! So happy to see 'Farewell and Goodnight' place <3

going to do a few more now:

https://i.imgur.com/W0CmQ9W.jpg
56. Ava Adore
142 points, 6 votes
From: Adore, 1998

https://i.imgur.com/mbFgYxT.jpg
56. Spaceboy
142 points, 6 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

https://i.imgur.com/KyFhTho.jpg
56. Wound
142 points, 7 votes
From: Machina/The Machines of God, 2000

WOUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cool seeing "Wound" place. late cut on my ballot.

https://i.imgur.com/GA5kP5y.jpg
53. Pug
150 points, 6 votes
From: Adore, 1998

oh cool, i'm not at work and can follow this live right now.

haven't said this yet but great job ufo!

"Spaceboy" for the Mellotron love

Ava Adore is SO LOW

Wound was a Machina track that I'd previously overlooked but it's one of the best from it now I think.

Ava Adore is a weird one, I sort of wish the drums were a little more forceful or something? do love the solo onwards though

and another three-way tie

https://i.imgur.com/SvPQIrK.jpg
52. Age of Innocence
154 points, 5 votes
From: Machina/The Machines of God, 2000

https://i.imgur.com/GYaTCOE.jpg
52. I of the Mourning
154 points, 5 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Machina/The Machines of God, 2000

https://i.imgur.com/LgySnqZ.jpg
52. Crush
154 points, 6 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Gish, 1991

is there a Spotify playlist? i don't see one, i will make one and post it in a few minutes.

I haven't made one, but that's much appreciated, thanks

Crush just made the bottom of my ballot. Gorgeous song.

The top 20 is gonna be a humdinger

I don't really like Age of Innocence much and think it's a weird closer (With Every Light would have been perfect) but I of the Mourning was another great discovery from this. It builds to a great climax, I just wish it wasn't swallowed by the Machina blur so much.

"I of the Mourning" made my ballot. Good catchy tune.

this is a collaborated list, so people who are able to update this list during the day please do.

ILM The Smashing Pumpkins

^^^Spotify

"Age of Innocence" always felt like a bonus track to me. Ends the album on a weird note. Agree that "With Every Light" or even "Blue Skies Bring Tears" would've ended the album much better.

14 songs deep and we've got almost 1/3 of Machina I!

And you KNOW "Try Try Try" (at the least) is up ahead.

“i of the mourning” was my no. 1!

Radio/Raaaadiooooooooooooo

Surprised that Age of Innocence placed. Happy that Ava Adore placed low. Very happy to see Wound make it, it was my #25, would be higher but I haaaaaate the mix on the album. Great song though, one of the best of the era. and I of the Mourning was in my top 10, an amazing song that has grown on me more than any other in recent years. I couldn't care less about it 5 years ago, now it's easily one of my favorite Pumpkins songs, if only for the second verse:

I blow the dust off my guitar
In the attic with the star
I read your letter to feel better
My tears upon the fading ink

this is a fantastic, straightforward performance and might be what turned me on this song (also the delivery of that second verse is perfect):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKZLXemEKhQ

again, emotionally resonant on its own, and doubly so when looked at in the context of where Billy and the band were at in 2000.

Pug rules so hard

Only got to know and love Pug when I heard the Arising tour version from early 1999. I wish Billy sang it higher on the record, besides being heavy as fuck, his vocal delivery is so much better here imo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDGkIk8A0Pw

i voted for “age of innocence” btw. i love it as a closing track bc it’s sorta got a “one last midtempo rocker before we hang it up” vibe, and billy’s lyrics in the bridge feel like his idea of an epitaph for the band

btw, ufo, nice work with the text on the images. It's very seamless.

the font match the records, very nice!

yes very nice work ufo

OTM

i had age of innocence very high.

just finished listening to what we have so far. the Spotify is already about an hour and twenty minutes and really, really mellow so far.

can't wait until tomorrow.

Crush is my first to place, what a great song

Also love Pug, and am happy Ava Adore beat Disarm (though I've come to like that one more and more in the passing years)

Got to admit I've always really disliked Ava Adore, a large part of that is down to the opening lines (really not helped by the goofy "Behold this tableau of grotesquery!" gesturing BC does in the video as he delivers them) but also I think the melody is kind of weak. I like Pug though, that was one that stood out on my last run through the album.

I of the Mourning and Age of Innocence are two of my favourites off Machina although I only voted for the latter in the end, I guess it is kind of an odd closer but I like the shifts between the different sections, it's like the whole album in miniature.

Crush was one of only two tracks from Gish on my ballot, I'm wondering how much of it will place - think the results have been nicely unpredictable so far!

'Wound', 'Age of Innocence' and 'I of the Mourning' all too low - three of the big highlights of MACHINA right there. 'Ava Adore' is pretty much in the right place, I think. 'Pug' too high.

I Of The Mourning is great, one of only two songs on Machina I have any desire to hear again. (The other one will probably be top 10).

I was sure that "I of the Mourning" was the one that I always heard on the radio in Canada but, oddly, I can't find any evidence that it was even a major single release. I have no memory of hearing "Everlasting Gaze" or "Try, Try, Try" on radio.

'Pug' too high.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 6 April 2018 10:30 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Pug too low, obv.

One of my top choices, and probably the pinnacle for me of the electro-goth sound that started with "Eye" and ran through "Ava Adore", "Tear" etc. I love the contrast between the crunchiness of the verses and the velvety smoothness of what I suppose is meant to be the chorus. Only flaw is the bridge which I feel doesn't quite gel with the rest of the song, but then they more than make it up for it with the new tearing synth sound that comes in afterwards.

The production reminds me weirdly of Tori Amos' 'From The Choirgirl Hotel' from the same year.

"I of the Mourning" is a great song that just missed my ballot because of the muddy production - you can hear the amazing Catherine Wheel tune struggling to rise out of the murk.

Yeah, it was listening to the live MusiquePlus performances of "I of the Mourning" and "Stand Inside Your Love" that really decided their spots on my ballot.

Both songs are among the least egregious on that album in terms of poor production, in truth, but their quality as songs almost makes It more upsetting.

I mean at least "Raindrops + Sunshowers" is just a dumb song so there's no lasting harm done there.

We're probably never going to agree on this but electro-goth production is particularly unforgiving to Corgan's voice in a way that noisy guitars (or even gentle guitars) aren't. It's a bit like how Kele Okerere's strangulated yelp worked OK with post-punk revivalism but dear god not with piano house.

I feel like all of billy's vocals post-SD are borderline awful with maybe 10 exceptions, so then it just comes down to how much I like the music / tune / production.

https://i.imgur.com/Oov9FUq.jpg
49. Cupid de Locke
156 points, 9 votes
From: Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

We're probably never going to agree on this but electro-goth production is particularly unforgiving to Corgan's voice in a way that noisy guitars (or even gentle guitars) aren't.

I think a lot of us were agreeing with this on the voting thread?

idk i think corgan’s voice is particularly suited toward stuff like “eye”

then again it is impossible for me to hear his voice as bad on the first five records (it is certainly v bad now)

i think the convo on the voting thread was about the shift in his voice between sd and mellon collie which isn’t so dramatic to me (but it made a ton of sense to me that he recorded his vocals in single takes without monitors on mellon collie bc he’s often a mess on that record). his singing on adore is really solid and unobnoxious for the most part

tim otm about “pug” btw which i didn’t vote for

yeah I agree with Brad he sounds fine on Adore. another thing about SD is his voice seems a little lower in the mix than on later albums

Cupid de Locke is pretty but not really something I was expecting to place at all.

Cupid de Locke is so good and weird. I'm not sure it would fit on any other SP album.

i love “cupid de locke” it’s so silly

Didn't vote for Cupid de Locke but it's lovely - it was definitely a favourite when I first got the album.

I can hear what Tim means about From the Choirgirl Hotel re: Pug, good shout.

https://i.imgur.com/3GLrQXe.jpg
48. By Starlight
162 points, 9 votes
From: Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

part of the nature of mellon collie being so long: i bought the album when i was eight but i don't think i got around to this song until i was nine or ten

it's one of the best though

“Cupid de Locke” is delightfully ridiculous. The first thing from my ballot to place, too!

lol i love the outro of pug, sounds like the song's malfunctioning

i love the kinda last blast of full on romanticism that "by starlight" represents on the album, such a lovely, warm song. the sudden appearance of the "does she really know who i really am" bridge is my favorite part

I love the repeating guitar line in By Starlight that slowly increases in intensity throughout the song

https://i.imgur.com/txNiliK.jpg
47. Where Boys Fear to Tread
170 points, 8 votes
From: Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

I agree with most of what was said about Ava Adore, it's all style with very little substance, as if we were supposed to be impressed that SP were hip to goth and electronica so it didn't really matter if they forgot to write a decent melody or chorus.

But on other parts of Adore (the album) they totally nailed the goth rock/electronica hybrid which is why that album is so fascinating but also so frustrating.

I sort of wish the drums were a little more forceful or something?

the hi-hat in the second verse, though

^^^ re: "ava adore"

All the last three are way too high with the exception on 'By Starlight' which is roughly in the right place. In no way are these better than the MACHINA tracks that place lower. I guess I'm just fortunate that I'm able to spot a good song even if the production is a barrier to some.

'Pug' has some neat ideas in the arrangement, but the vocal melody isn't all that strong.

Starting to think that every single thing on Mellon Collie is going to place but otoh there's no chance of enough people voting for We Only Come Out At Night.

By Starlight is one of his best ballads though.

It is, but the version they played at Glastonbury was fucking awful, if I recall.

https://i.imgur.com/LArDV2t.jpg
46. Eye
172 points, 9 votes
From: Lost Highway Soundtrack, 1997

YEAH

this song sounds so cool

it's really those thick daubs of bass throughout

most of the recent Machina tracks were higher than those MCIS tracks for most of the voting period, none of the recent MCIS tracks had many votes at all until the last day or so

I love the repeating guitar line in By Starlight that slowly builds in intensity, one of my favourites.

I don't care at all for Where Boys Fear to Tread though, just feels like an aimless riff to me.

Eye rules and I wish there were more harder-hitting songs like it on Adore, which mostly went for a murkier sound in its percussion & bass.

https://i.imgur.com/kfl7mJ1.jpg
45. Blank Page
180 points, 9 votes
From: Adore, 1998

yesss beautiful song

https://open.spotify.com/user/beeok/playlist/4IrfPuY4059KGXCZoMftEl?si=3HXmKcGNSei8NLSHIU2ouw

Please keep updated.

Eye is great and probably too low. I thought it'd get a Lynch bump around here.

there's an adore demo/outtake called "my mistake" which it sounds like they dissolved that song in water and "blank page" was the result

also:

take a day
plant some trees
may they shade you from me
may your children play beneath

https://i.imgur.com/8MZRYur.jpg
44. Glynis
184 points, 8 votes
From: No Alternative, 1993

this is the only one I don't have a good image for unfortunately, couldn't find an easy way to replicate the font on the No Alternative cover...

yayyyyy!!!

dang Glynis now that's a song, my #5

i voted for "glynis," two spots above "blank page" oddly. everything i love about gish/sd era sp is kinda embodied by that song, especially the contrast between its two halves. i can't explain why but it feels related to "hummer," like an even more chilled-out paisley mirror of it

love those yelps at the end, there's an alt version on the deluxe Pisces that replaces the yelps with a bunch of "crayzeeee" vocals & it sucks so bad, but the original is total blissed out sadness, my Pumpkins

never heard Eye before! almost sounds more like a God Lives Underwater or Jesus Jones track or something.

this is prob the fourth time this video has been posted between the voting thread and the results thread but this is a really stunning performance imo and billy actually sounds great for most of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohGwSHQ7Vdc

I totally forgot about Glynis. Great tune, it wouldn't have jelled on SD but it's an album worthy song for sure.

All of my least favorite Adore songs are placing thus far ...

love those yelps at the end, there's an alt version on the deluxe Pisces that replaces the yelps with a bunch of "crayzeeee" vocals & it sucks so bad, but the original is total blissed out sadness, my Pumpkins

OK this is embarrassing, that's the only version of Glynis I've ever heard, didn't realise it was an alternative take!

https://i.imgur.com/DSUynbC.jpg
43. Behold! The Night Mare
188 points, 8 votes
From: Adore, 1998

this is my favourite from Adore, I had it very high. it has a lovely shimmery sound in the guitars and drums, the Adore production at its best. the acoustic bridge followed by that beautiful guitar noise then the ascending second part of the bridge, then the way it ends with a second verse, it sounds like it could drift on forever.

re. Glynis, it's more just another mix, but a much worse mix I think, not least because it forefronts Corgan's vocals at the end. in the original mix you get the "one love" parts but not much of the rest of Corgan's ad libs, and it's much much much better for it.

"behold!" is so good, it just missed my ballot. somehow lives up to its ridiculous title without ever seeming like a ridiculous song

https://i.imgur.com/u5kYUYs.jpg
42. To Sheila
196 points, 10 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Adore, 1998

This is one of a few Adore tracks I love.

the little middle eight break thing in Behold is one of the best things Billy ever wrote

it was such a shock to hear this after mellon collie

i mean i know the end of mellon collie sets you up for it but still

whose #1? Good choice

yeah for real

"to sheila" was originally supposed to play behind the scene in cruel intentions soundtracked by counting crows "colorblind"

I always thought "autobahn" was kinda incongruous to the corgan lyrical universe

excellent trivia brad

Ah yes!!! I voted for Glynis and Blank Page! By Starlight another near miss; Brad otm about it being creeper

This is embarrassing but I hadn't heard Glynis before. It's amazing.

Of all the "Corgan with acoustic guitar accompaniment" tracks, I'd say that 'To Sheila' was the first of these where Corgan hit the mark dead on. Not to take away from 'Soothe' or 'Stumbleine', but this is a far superior song. One of my favourites on Adore and a great and unobvious way to open the LP.

https://i.imgur.com/Gt8y4lf.jpg
41. Luna
208 points, 10 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

I love the psychedelic guitar in the background of this, really beautiful tune and their best album closer.

Wow. Way too low. My #2. One of the most sublime love songs I’ve ever heard, and some of Billy’s best & most effortless lyrics.

“To shiela” was my #1

I just woke up and can’t explain but that song has helped carry me through it all

awesome choice karl

Thanks! This poll rules so far, really enjoying the rollout

Yeah, not sure Billy's voice has ever sounded better than on To Sheila

Luna really is one of the best lyrics BC ever wrote. Really touching and a perfect delivery. Five years later and he was all about twisted mysticism like "twilight fades through blistered Avalon". What?

(both songs made my ballot ... obviously I love them for totally different reasons)

https://i.imgur.com/uab8wnM.jpg
40. Bury Me
214 points, 10 votes
From: Gish, 1991

last one for now

damn that's low, one of their very best codas

it is, that loping outro riff is like the precursor to the end of Hummer

'Luna' too low, I've heard that song hundreds of times by now and it still moves me in the same way it did the first time. A beautiful song - whenever Corgan is coming across as a jackass for the zillionth time, it's tracks like 'Luna' that help me separate the art from the artists.

*artist.

otm. it's the perfect closer to that album. emotionally similar to porcelina. that bent A note that runs thru the song is so perfect, the music captures the feeling of falling in love and the naivete and innocence that comes with it.

I think the outro on 'Bury Me' is used differently to the one on 'Hummer' ... 'Hummer's outro is a very distinct change in mood, almost like a different song entirely even if the transition is smooth, whereas 'Bury Me' doesn't feel like that.

*lol C# sorry

gonna get in trouble in here discussing notes and CHORDS xp

xp yeah totally, bury me doesn't have that dynamic shift, the circular/swirling riffs always reminded me of each other though, where hummer is the more mature/developed take

xpost:

I completely agree. I found putting a ballot together for this far too impossible, but 'Luna' would have been a no-brainer to include.

we should do a poll of songs written about Courtney Love. can't think of a single one that comes close to Luna

good luck with your westworld cover of heart shaped box thread

Bury Me and I Am One were the next *legit* Pumpkins songs to show up in sets after Rhinoceros. I was never a fan of the former but I've been coming around, just as I've really gotten sick of the latter

Siva too. that was the song that bridged the gap between the Cure cosplay of the late 80s material and what Gish would become.

trouble with doing a "songs about Courtney Love" poll would be figuring out which ones were legit

Siva seems more structurally ambitious though, all those rollercoaster dips into and out of quietness xp to flappy

there's at least a dozen songs about courtney by billy

luna
silverfuck
fuck you
love
bodies
where boys fear to tread
x.y.u.
i of the mourning (second verse)
soothe
hello kitty kat
blank
rotten apples

xp - right, that's what i meant- according to BC it was the song that opened the floodgates for what the Pumpkins could be

fuck you
love

must be real fun to be romantically involved with billy corgan

where boys fear to tread is about trent reznor and how billy was jealous of him dating courtney in '95 lol

"Love is suicide" still perplexes me. Such a loaded phrase only a year after Cobain's death.

courtney love also responsible for this l👀k

https://i.imgur.com/O5MSP8e.png

courtney love too learn truth behind billy's lyrics

1994

https://78.media.tumblr.com/1a83933de3ab2f7cb13b97c7a4df6b0f/tumblr_inline_ni8wo3wTPY1qaotc0.png

1997

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b9/02/68/b902684cb8f40e4b24a189f729b20a1a.jpg

Lol I've spent almost the entire morning listening to 1989 shows trying to pinpoint the exact nature of the break from the goth-pop mode that Rhinoceros represents

With Bury Me and I Am One, it's easier because of the Jane's Addiction influence; I used to think Bury Me came first because imo it bites Nothing's Shocking harder*, but Bury Me is a lot more sophisticated than I am One (which meh tbh East>>>> ) but Bury Me defines itself not in the cycling riff but in the breaks, most notably how the chords that lead tino 'that outro' basically reprise the "bury me in love" melody

I think I grew to like BM mostly just from trying to figure out how Billy made that outro work

courtney love conversation is mainly reminding me of how good all of the songs he’s written with her are

Speaking of Courtney Love, I saw the Pumpkins play in Biloxi, MS the day they found Kurt's body. He didn't mention it. Their openers Red Red Meat did. It always seemed weird to me. At the time I didn't know he and Courtney had ever had a thing. It was still weird that he didn't bring it up. It seemed like an important thing that was obviously on everyone's mind.

The show was incredible. "Starla" tore the roof off the place.

Wow you were there? I've listened to tapes of that show just to see if he said anything about Kurt. I still maintain that "Malibu" was the best song about Kurt written in the wake of the suicide. Pretty crazy that it was co-written (written?) by Billy Corgan, the guy whose rumored meeting with Courtney in London led to Kurt's Rome suicide attempt. Or do I have that wrong?...

Man, "Glynis" only made 20% of ballots at all?

What's the weighting again for the song poll (i.e. #1 = 50 points, #2 = 48 points, #25 = 2 points)?

Speaking of Courtney Love, I saw the Pumpkins play in Biloxi, MS the day they found Kurt's body. He didn't mention it. Their openers Red Red Meat did. It always seemed weird to me. At the time I didn't know he and Courtney had ever had a thing. It was still weird that he didn't bring it up. It seemed like an important thing that was obviously on everyone's mind.

The show was incredible. "Starla" tore the roof off the place.

he wrote about that day & how he heard the news in his “confessions of billy corgan” livejournal circa 2005. here it is:

As is often the case after a show, we board the bus and hit the road, watching movies and eating bad food to pass the time…this drive is about 5+ hours, so the sun is just about to come up when the bus hisses to a stop…the damp breeze of the ocean rolls up onto me in my half-sleep, and I can spy the water just over the road, so I make a small mental note to come back around during the day and check out the beach…turning, I am a bit stunned to see that we are staying in some sort of motel nightmare, splashed down here on a whim in the 60’s as a heady mix of Jetson’s futurism mixed with hurricane reality…I ask no one in particular, “what the fuck is this place?”, but no one listens cause they have heard it all before and all they really want is a closed door with a bed behind it…my room stinks of mildew and is just big enough for that same sought after bed, but out goes the light, and I am fast asleep…

The phone rings way too early, jarring me out of a sweet, humid sleep…the window is open and the sun pours in as the ocean air sweeps through the room…it looks like a beautiful day…”Did you hear the news? He’s gone and killed himself”…my first twilight thought is that it can’t be true, because even I have been reported dead two separate times in the last year (driving down the road, my father had recently heard a report that I was dead, so it must be a rumor or a bad joke)…the t.v. in the room is one of those standard pieces of shit where you need a remote to turn it on, cause they hardwire the front controls off so you can’t jack the channels around to get the movies for free…I flip on CNN with the sound off, figuring if there’s any truth to it that they would have it…there is nothing on at this moment except a general news report, so it must just be a mistake…then I start to think that maybe they won’t care at all and that this might not be the source for information…about 20 seconds in they flash his picture…the talking head is talking away, and my stomach drops about 1,000 feet…I mumble to whoever is on the line for a minute or so, but I don’t remember what I said…they remind me that they are very glad I am still here…I put down the phone, and all is really quiet now…his picture is still up on the screen, frozen…it is one of those rare moments in life where the entire world seems to be stopped, waiting for the next breath…my mind races around to “where is she? I hope she is alright”…I sit on the edge of the bed and just stare at the screen…I cannot believe my eyes, it is just all so sad…I don’t pray, but I do now…I pull myself down to the floor, my back pressed up against the bed, the t.v. screen just a foot away from my eyes…I say a prayer for his soul, thanking him for all the good he has done…I pray a lot for his child, who is now without a father…and I start to cry and I don’t stop until there are no more tears to cry…

Admission: I totally forgot about "Glynis"

Oh wow! thanks for the recording and all the context for that Biloxi show. I am listening to it now.

https://i.imgur.com/SbYZsBA.jpg
39. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
218 points, 11 votes
From: No Alternative, 1995