The Beths

they're pretty new to me and just released their debut on carpark records, future me hates me, but i can't help but think they'll blow up at some point soon. they had the benefit of a pitchfork plug (that's where i first read about them). RIYL alvvays. the alvvays feel is always there because both bands are very skilled and concise in their playing with frontwomen that churn out hook after hook in their melodies. at other times the production and composition remind me a bit of the weezer blue album. i guess they're all jazz school friends in new zealand. on the alvvays thread i described them as "tightly composed hook-filled upbeat", and i still think that's right.

it makes me shake my fist to think that old turds like the foo fighters are STILL like the flagship main rock band or whatever (and U2?) when there are albums like this out there, which is kind of ironic because parts of the beths record remind me of the colour and the shape. but these songs are poppy as hell. almost half of the album (great no one, future me hates me, not running, little death, happy unhappy) could plausibly be a pop smash in any world containing justice. the chorus of the title track is always in my head. almost every song has a sequence that is just relentlessly catchy.

even with the songs that i don't like as much, i could imagine that the things that i don't like about them would really appeal to a lot of other people. for example, the enthusiastically positive backup vocals in "whatever" completely ruin the song for me. take them out, and it would sound like a really good posies song, i think. but that positivity would also make it a hit car commercial song or whatever. similarly, although i think the entire vocal approach (also backup heavy) on the closing "less than thou" is not good and doesn't really keep up with the more aggressive pace of the music, it also is reminiscent of fleetwood mac for some reason and i won't rule out coming around to it at some point.

i'm focusing too much on the songs i don't like as much, but the highlights of the album are constantly stuck in my head. i've shared their music with a few friends and they've had the same experience. only $14.99. buy now! (i don't know how much it costs)

it's hard to get my ass out of the house on most days but i would logroll my way to see them if they pass through here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQYhM48H5zs

Yeah, this album feels like an instant classic. There's a lot of things to love here, but I think it really comes down to the harmonies/backing vocals which are just incredible. I really hope people get behind them.

They remind me of Charli Bliss

Pfork compared them to the Courtneys (which is what brought me to the album), but that was a misdirect IMO.

I haven't bought it yet but, as I said on the Alvvays thread, I find it really enjoyable. The vocals are v pleasant.

They remind me of Charli Bliss

― nostormo

Yeah, I mentioned they could be this year's Charly Bliss on another thread. I also think there are moments that are a bit Courtney Barnett.

yeah this is great, one of those albums that isn't doing anything new but just has great songs and an infectious quality

I would like to defend the backing vox on "Whatever." I think they rule.

Also, "Not Running" is, despite its name, a fantastic song to run to.

Little Death is incredible

the EP preceding the album is excellent, too, in case anyone missed it

a little more jangle-y than charly bliss but the comparison definitely makes sense. this is about as good as this sort of music gets, i love it. every track is so densely packed with hooks

i see that they are playing at yah yahs this saturday night for $10!

when can we poll this album

this album is awesome btw, kitchen person otm about the harmonies

Little Death is incredible

― alpine static, Sunday, September 2, 2018 10:45 AM (three days ago)

addendum: Not Running -> Little Death -> Happy Unhappy is absolutely mind-melting.

this album is my new obsession

Great album!

addendum: Not Running -> Little Death -> Happy Unhappy is absolutely mind-melting.

― alpine static

Totally agree. The first few songs are great, but this run is when the album goes to the next level.

Album of the year for me now.

i love that sequence too

it's really only "you wouldn't like me" that interrupts the flow of the first 7 songs, but otherwise it's just one great song after another

Not totally similar but close enough that I would suggest that if you like this record you should check out the Luby Sparks record.

Reading this thread I had a feeling I'd love this band (probably because anything compared to Charly Bliss immediately catches my eye), and yup, I love it a ton. From front to back, great record. It's not as good as Guppy, but it does offer similar pop punk-styled thrills. Personally, it's all about the opening of Great No One for me. I just remember hearing that guitar riff and vocal melody and thinking to myself "shit, I'm doomed to listen to this record every day for the rest of the month, aren't i?"

The harmonies on Whatever are fine imo, but the "whoa-a-oh-a-oh" and "oo-OO-oo-OO-ooooo" harmonies on Happy Unhappy and Uptown Girl, respectively, don't sound very good? They're just way too cutesy and on-the-nose for me. Which is a shame because they're excellent songs otherwise.

but yeah, this is definitely making my top 10 in the ilx 77 poll

this is pretty nice but I don't hear the Charly Bliss comparison at all, the energy levels are totally different

Yeah, I can’t figure out what I think of the harmonies. On some songs I think they’re fine and on others I just want them to go away. I think I just get fatigued with them after a while, so my tolerance for them depends on whether or not I’m skipping around or listening to the album all the way through.

I woke up with the chorus of the title track in my head several days in a row last week. Very catchy song but kind of becoming a living nightmare. You’re killing me, Beths!

there's a dry boredom conveyed by liz stokes' singing that i think contrasts quite strongly with the singer of charly bliss, who i think doesn't sound that different to carly rae jepsen at her most saccharine.

this is pretty nice but I don't hear the Charly Bliss comparison at all, the energy levels are totally different

That's my impression too. I said something similar in another thread, but Charly Bliss is an uninhibited joy bomb while The Beths feel a bit more studied and controlled—not bad qualities, but very much not what Charly Bliss is doing.

closer cousins for me are the aforementioned Alvvays, Best Coast, or even Standard Fare. anyway this is a great record!

^ yep

they both have a power pop sound reminiscent of the blue album but better, though they go in different directions with it

What part of what Beths song sounds like Weezer??

while we're throwing out people we hear I mostly hear Tuscadero

What part of what Beths song sounds like Weezer??

― Johnny Fever

The chorus of River Run Lvl 1 is probably the closest they come to Weezer.

i didn't really get the Charly Bliss comparison either, other than they're both pop-rock bands. vocals are far too different.

i can't quite nail down who i think they sound like except it's hard to get away from Courtney Barnett because of the accents.

this is really so excellent

man this rules

wow, they're playing a *tiny* room near where some of my friends live in oct. i think i will go.

Little Death is perfect.
I wish the rest of the album was more edgy and little less power ppp like this track.

What part of what Beths song sounds like Weezer??

This album reminds me of a lot of 90's power-pop that I had forgotten about, but loved dearly at the time: Velocity Girl, Jason Faulkner, Brendan Benson.

Thanks, Karl, for the heads-up on this band (I saw your post about them on the alvvays thread). They're playing a tiny room in my town too... either they booked this tour before they had any sort of traction at all, or no one besides the people on this thread are listening to them.

Also, this is totally OTM:

The harmonies on Whatever are fine imo, but the "whoa-a-oh-a-oh" and "oo-OO-oo-OO-ooooo" harmonies on Happy Unhappy and Uptown Girl, respectively, don't sound very good? They're just way too cutesy and on-the-nose for me. Which is a shame because they're excellent songs otherwise.

― josh az (2011nostalgia), Wednesday, September 5, 2018 11:53 PM

(i still love the album though)

i thought of That Dog and went and reminded myself of Totally Crushed Out ... close-ish, not quite right, but my next step was going to be Velocity Girl

I'm not invested enough in this band to play a long game of spot the inspiration, but if you're listening to "Little Death" and the strongest comparison you can make is Weezer, then that's what you *want to* be hearing. It's not there.

The chorus of River Run Lvl 1 is probably the closest they come to Weezer.

This checks out.

is the inspection over

xposts enochroot

jealous of the small room opportunity! they played a relatively small venue here (empty bottle) but it was just before i started listening to them.

but if you're listening to "Little Death" and the strongest comparison you can make is Weezer, then that's what you *want to* be hearing. It's not there.

This always happens me when I try to point out to my wife people who look like other people: she never sees it, because I think she's expecting to see an exact clone, rather than a few shared characteristics.
A band's output is similarly complex, nuanced, and unique, so seeing the similarities really depends on how much you're willing to squint and ignore the details.

btw, i'm rapidly zero-ing in on "Not Running" as my favorite track on the album.

for what it's worth they do say they were going for weezer

https://www.undertheradar.co.nz/news/14777/Interview-The-Beths-Talk-About-Their-Debut-Album-Future-Me-Hates-Me.utr

that’s just what they *want* to be hearing

This was a weird thread detour. If other people hear it and the band says they intended it, fine. They're doing a Weezer thing.

I still barely hear it, but also I'm not deeply taken with this album anyway (it's fine). Enjoy!

They can be influenced by Weezer or by Justin Bieber for that matter. As long as they are good (and they are) who cares.

Just an aside: I just listened to two or three songs from the Charly Bliss album. This has nothing to do with it. What I heard did neither have the hooks nor the speed and variety of The Beths and I cannot get over the squeaky Minnie Mouse voice of the singer.

Idea/Intent from the E.P. is the best song they wrote

Listening to this album over and over

When I was about 20 I remember thinking that there were 3 things that gave me the same endorphin rush: crushes, drugs, and music.
Now that I'm in my 40's, the first 2 aren't happening any more, and music only gives me that buzz on increasingly rare occasions, but for whatever reason, this beths album does it for me.

They played live last night at a tiny place in Boston, and they definitely delivered the goods. It seems like the whole jazz-school background means that they're all solid musicians, so the live versions of the songs popped more than the studio versions. Also, there's something so primally pleasing about bands who can do 4-part harmonies.

Oh, and for whatever reason, they can't play River Run live.

This is like the least challenging album ever recorded but it's really addictive. I dunno, sometimes, more occasionally than is claimed, when you've got the tunes that's really all that matters.

Interesting to hear they've got a jazz background though, it does SOUND much tighter and more muscular than records like this usually do. Like usually you listen to a straightforward indie rock record and it feels like aesthetic decisions had been made because the band weren't capable of doing much more, or couldn't think of anything else to do. Here, it feels like they've arranged things this way because that's what the song NEEDS.

"Least challenging" might actually be the key here (i.e. has anyone ever experienced that endorphin rush feeling from listening to Stockhausen?)

Life is challenging enough sometimes, it's okay to just be a fun, well written and performed pop rock record

Absolutely what can you have against great music if your only critic is that it is unchallenging? What does that mean anyways? I find the whole concept that challenging music is good music which is somehow implied in the reasoning pretty dubious. There is so much crap challenging music out there. Let it challenge someone else, not me.

fwiw if you read matt dc's post he likes the album a lot, and he doesn't argue that music needs to be challenging.

(i.e. has anyone ever experienced that endorphin rush feeling from listening to Stockhausen?)

Yes.

Was just about to post the same thing! Kreuzspiel, Mikrophonie II, Kontakte - absolutely.

I love this album, though.

(i.e. has anyone ever experienced that endorphin rush feeling from listening to Stockhausen?)

Yes.

― Zach Same (Tom D.), Thursday, October 11, 2018 1:38 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I knew someone was going to post this, and ILM, you did not disappoint.

fwiw, 2 of the 4 people on the current tour were not part of the "all 4 have jazz-school backgrounds" group that made the record.

maybe those 2 went to jazz school, i don't know. just pointing it out.

yeah, good point. in that interview katherine posted upthread they mentioned that they used a different drummer on various parts of the tour (a good thing, i think, based off of their videos) and that the bass player was also not a permanent member.

i went to jazz school on the streets

These guys came on Spotify shuffle today at work and I was loving it. This thread bump has reminded me to get the album.

Decent enough rocking guitar pop

I’ve slowly come to realize that Whatever is the best thing here. It’s just one incredible hook after another

I think "You Wouldn't Like Me" is my favourite but that's up there.

At their show, they did play "Whatever" with an air of "well here's the one you've probably all been waiting for..."
Also, it's the only song from their EP that they decided to keep on the album. So I think they might agree with you.

i have grown to like the backup vox on much of the album, but i still can't stomach them on 'whatever'. i have tried many times, but at this point i just play the album through happy unhappy, then either switch to something else or play "less than thou" as the closer

i also skip "you wouldn't like me" most of the time

this band owns live

I'm seeing them Sunday. super excited!

oh hey they're playing here in February.

their version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" somehow redeems that old croaker, with the help of strings and a ripping solo

Elizabeth Stokes is a really good singer. the chorus of "Happy Unhappy" is so warm, it actually makes you physically feel better to listen to it.

I had to force myself to have a break from this album as I didn't want to get burned out on it. I've been going back to it over the last couple of weeks and it's still sounding so amazing. Still can't get over that run of Not Running, Little Death and Happy Unhappy.

cosign on ALL of that

The new video seems like the kind of thing that gets automatically created by Facebook based on all your 2018 posts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=166&v=BmCZ-NxESOc

this band owns live

OTM.

while we're throwing out people we hear I mostly hear Tuscadero

Belated OTM! Certainly in that vein.

I'm so sad I was out of town when they played here :( :(

I'm going to see them tonight! Just realized they are not actually the headliners, rather it's a band i've never heard of called Bad Bad Hats.

They recently opened a 3-week long tour I was part of and I'm delighted to report that they are the nicest, weirdest, coolest people on earth. I watched every bit of their set almost every night.

pulled out of their Smith Street Band national tour support slot (xpost with Weinstein thread)

Turns out they were actually headlining the show (the venue just posted the sets in the wrong order).

They really are a tight live band. I thought they were better this time than the first time I saw them. The sound was better (vocals higher in the mix), and whatever drummer they brought on this tour is a monster. He's an order of magnitude better than he needs to be for this material -- it was like the Cloud Nothings lent the band their drummer for the night. They played almost all the songs from the Warm Blood EP, which sound much better live... the live version of Idea/Intent was awesome.

saw them last night and they were awesome. im def gonna check em out again when they have more material. the drummer is so good--it's almost funny how chill and upright he seems when executing these ridiculous patterns and fills.

While it’s not math rock, the arrangements are intricate and there’s a lot of dynamics that warrant more than timekeeping

i am so excited to see them tomorrow

Grrr, I have missed them twice live now. Next time

Bought tickets for them a couple of months ago and missed the show. When will I finally learn I can't remember show dates.

Didn't blow me away or anything last night, but they were pretty tight and charmingly dorky. Non-stop flashbacks to various basement concerts c. 1997 or so.

Bought tickets for them a couple of months ago and missed the show.

I once had tickets to James Brown and confused a 2 for a 7 and showed up a week late.

This album is freakin glorious. Can't think of another rock record that has affected me like this recently. "not running" gives me goosebumps

After my latest listen to the album I decided I wished they’d slowed the tempo down for a song or 2 to provide more variety ( but the current all rockin approach works too)

There's 3 or 4 songs with good quiet stretches... i would not change a damn thing about this record!

I'm not going to go, but they're playing at my local barn/venue this summer.

why aren't you going to go

This kind of music just doesn't do it for me. But I heard a track on college radio (which still plays mostly indie rock apparently!) and it sounded good, especially in comparison to the songs around it.

yesss they're touring the US and Canada again this summer, bless them

and playing some new stuff, they say! here's hoping they don't Charly Bliss it up. (jk, jk)

Just picked up the Warm Blood EP which has been reissued on vinyl. I've never listened to it before so I'm really excited to have four new (to me) Beths songs in my life.

kinda hoping "Rush Hour 3" reappears on their setlists for the summer tour

I think "Rush Hour 3" was the only song from the Warm Blood EP which they didn't play when they came through town in February.

Girl Friday are opening for them on this next tour and goddamn do they sound great

https://youtu.be/q2j4jD2kDA0

Just saw them at the Independent with Girl Friday and Ariel View. Ariel View was incredibly tight and tried (with limited success) to get a San Francisco crowd to get a mosh pit going. Girl Friday was pretty good, but not really my cup of tea. The Beths were great. They played a couple new songs which sounded great, and all of their faves. I enjoyed the NZ-accented patter as well. Although I gotta say Ariel View has SO much energy that they kinda overshadowed the next two bands! Also, the level of normcore “fashion” happening on stage was out of control. My wife said it looked like the nineties threw up on the eighties.

I haven’t heard Ariel View! I will check them out

I caught this tour in TO and the crowd got so unexpectedly rowdy. I'm staying in Vancouver rn and might actually catch them again!

I saw this tour a few days ago ... Aerial View got an A for effort, but they were clearly a couple levels down from Girl Friday, who were a couple levels down from The Beths. Promising, though! Aerial View, I mean. They were fun, there was just a noticeable jump in quality/consistency/performance/everything from the first band to the second.

Girl Friday I was really impressed with. Cool sound, good presence.

The Beths, of course ... well, they're one of the best pop-rock bands going. They've got it all dialed in. The two new ones they played sounded awesome. (They must be so so so sick of playing those same dozen-ish songs they've been playing every night for the past 18 months.

My friend who went to that SF show also said Ariel View were great, but also made him feel old due to them looking pre-teen to him lol

Said they did a decent Strokes cover

yeah, one of 'em legit looks like she's in middle school

Ahhhh their Vancouver show tonight was amazing. The openers were good too.. give Arial Friday a few years and the right producer and I could picture them cranking out a good record

Understandably, the band just announced their upcoming tour has been postponed. In happier news, they also said the second album is finished and they'll be in touch soon. I really needed that small bit of good news today.

new album Jump Rope Gazer out July 10

there's also this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxQOyV7mji0

nice! love that they start with the theme from animal crossing

a great version of "whatever" - i much prefer it to the version on the album, i think because i don't think the production on the album suits it

don't LIKE the production on the album version

oh my god this is EXACTLY the news I needed to hear today

new single owns

I'm way past the age where I get stoked for new releases, but I'm giddy about this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkzI93Aqztk

oh my god "Dying to Believe" rules and is exactly what I needed this morning

Perfect new single. I love this band!

they did a little online thing from their house yesterday in case anyone cares that may've missed. it's of course charming af
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+beths&page=&utm_source=opensearch

god this is so good. their drummer is probably my favorite in the world.

i think he might be their 3rd (4th?) drummer since the debut! but yeah, i always like their drumming. also lol at the drumkit evolving through that video

i think it's the same guy who was in the band when i saw them last year--always so cool and deadpan in the upper body but such active hands.

like the song
video is perfect for the guitarist who had major "1980s guitar instructional VHS tape" video vibes

Yeah, that drummer is a live powerhouse in a way that the recordings don't convey.

great new power song! one of my fave 3 bands these days. together with low and girl ray.

yeah, this new song rules!and yeah, "power" is right. i don't know why i didn't think of the debut as a power pop album, but that describes most of my favorite moments from it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvYrJxNwW5I&

That room she's playing in looks like the same room where they recorded the quarantine livestream (i.e. her living room). I wonder if that means they did this video in the last 2 months, which is why all the band members are filmed separately.

Love the new song, btw.

xpost that's what it means ... somewhere she said they all filmed their own parts and sent them to whoever made the video (and those folks did the animations)

they rule hard.

the bethst!

More of the same. And it's great news.

Best Power Pop mysic since New Pornographers early years

I'd throw Exploding Hearts in there too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaoCF5cVj2g

new single is really special

they get the melancholy jangle/powerpop blend perfect and the breakdown is perfect

I don't know if they're the best rock band in te world but they're definitely among the very most adorable

i'll give them "best power-pop band in the world" at least

they've also done two more live streams since the first, another acoustic duo stream like the first and a full-band live in studio session

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmZidynMHE8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnInD287geo

Best power pop band working today for sure.

New stuff is basically the debut part 2 and i have no problem with that

tbh i'd be thrilled if they could keep cranking out that debut album for the next 10 years. evolution is overrated.

Agreed

bands like this tend to have a short shelf life, gotta treasure it while you can

listen you can't just stroll onto the beths thread and threaten the beths like that

well now they're obliged to call their next one THE DETHS

Megabeths

now i am become beth

I caught the second House show live and there was all this chatter about audience time zones. The half hour Newfoundland time zone might have really shaken them up. They mention it again in this week's show and then they start swearing and drinking. Shoot...

the new track isn't some bold re-invention but it's broadened their sound just a little in an absolutely perfect way

i think it's probably my favourite song they've done yet

NZ having concerts again huh. They announced one for July 11!

"Out of Sight" is really really good

it's funny I don't really think of them as a "New Zealand" band but the shimmery guitar at the beginning feels very classic NZ to me

just looked it up, NZ pop 4.8 million, their per capita good rock band production is off the fucking charts

Does anyone else hear the melodies of Sunburn era Blake Babies coming through in the music of The Beths?

...or is it just me?

So did they deliberately chose the ugliest album cover they could think about?

The pre-orders are shipping... my copy of Jump Rope Gazers just arrived in the mail!

(xp - yeah, this band definitely neglects the visual / graphic design side of things)

My pre-order was delayed because I'm getting a free poster as I was one of the first people to order it. That was a nice bit of good news to get the other day (the poster, not the delay).

I've actually had a download since the beginning of April. I don't usually get albums I ask to review that early, but my editor came through for me. At first I was a bit surprised (and maybe even disappointed) that it's a bit softer than Future Me Hates Me and wasn't as instant. Of course after a few plays I love it to bits and they really do feel like my favourite current band. It's kind of the same experience I had with the second Alvvays, Shura and Charly Bliss albums which took a while and I ended up loving as much or even more than their debuts.

a free poster

unfortunately this is a free poster from the band that definitely neglects the visual / graphic design side of things, haha

where did you all pre-order from? i never purchased the first one because i was still trying to make more than negative zero dollars a month at that point, but now i'm wealthy and ready to buy NZ indie pop

Haha, yes I don't what the poster looks like but I don't have high hopes for it being one I want to actually display anywhere. It's a nice thought though.

I ordered it directly through their store as they said it was the best way to support the band.

http://store.carparkrecords.com/products/664303-cak143-the-beths-jump-rope-gazers

Not sure how they decide which songs to pick as singles, but this feels like wall-to-wall solid songwriting. I think I'm actually gonna connect with some of these album cuts more than I did with the first 2 singles... a lot of them have the same rain-streaked melancholy as "Out of Sight".

Yes, definitely closer to Alvvays territory (which is aural catnip to me).

It's hard to get past You Are a Beam of Light as my favourite. Such a stunning vocal performance.

Hmm I don't find the album cover that offensive. It's a photo of a weird sculpture so not the typical graphic design crime, really. TBH though shit like this has way more personality than most indie album covers out there that look like sterile overly serious magazine ads. Not that it is the only other type of cover, but ultimately I appreciate DIY art weirdness much more than most other styles.

otm. And the poster at the link above is a fun illustration. Can't wait to hear the album!

I don't mind their artwork that much really. It did take me a while to find a t-shirt that I was happy to get though. I went with the blue rabbit design and I'm very pleased with it.

https://thebeths.merchtable.com/apparel/rabbit-baby-blue-t-shirt

they have a really uncanny grasp of the "90s used CD bin" aesthetic

That might explain it. I am the strange-guy-on-the-beach-with-the-metal-detector of bins full of used 90s CDs.

honestly i've barely glanced at their song/album art, i didn't mean to be overly judgmental. for me, i really don't care much at all about album artwork. i put it in the same level as track names - a particularly good or appropriate one might stand out to me, but a bad one doesn't make a difference either

i'm here for the *music* maaaan

also ordered their LPs from car park, thanks for the head's up kitchen person!

I've seen many worse album covers this year

a lot of them have the same rain-streaked melancholy as "Out of Sight".

i think that's the best song they've ever done by a fair way so i'm very excited

I didn't say it was bad it's just this and the last one look exactly like a band that got signed to EastWest in 97 and put out two unfairly overlooked power pop records

so basically exactly what would have happened to the Beths had they been around then

album rules and i think it's a bit better than the debut, adding some melancholy jangles to their sound goes a long way

I had tickets to a show they were supposed to play here in Cleveland back in April, and it got rescheduled for plague-related reasons to the end of September, so now it will be in support of all-new material. Which is nice!

"Jump Rope Gazers", the song, is more directly evocative of Sheryl Crow than anything on the Haim album!

This album fuckin rules. Best summer ever! (For music, I mean...)

did it leaked

I don't think so. People have been getting their vinyl copies shipped early.

it leaked

yeah it's out there

Oh right, cool. I'm excited to see more reactions in the next few days. Hopefully the reviews are positive too. I'm still so surprised at how much critics slept on the debut.

It's doing ok so far:

https://www.metacritic.com/music/jump-rope-gazers/the-beths

The energy, the tightness, the power pop..almost all gone:(
Disappointing on first listen.

I don't think that's true really, there's plenty of pep on about half the songs (the first two singles + "Acrid", "Don't Go Away", "Mars"), with the other half various shades of wistful

Yeah i liked the singles, that's why it's kind of a letdown for me.

Will give it more chances though, because she sure knows how to write melodies ao it might be a grower.

her vocals are really strong and polished now too, to the extent I could even see it turning off people who prefer the band scrappier

I really can see why people might be disappointed with the album initially as it is quite a change of pace for them with half the album being much gentler, but after a few listens it really hit me. Hoping that's the case for most people. The songwriting is still just crazy strong.

my only beef rn is the closer seems a little slight

is it just my files or is the mastering remarkably quiet?

it's noticeably quiet, yeah, but it doesn't appear to be any quieter than the previously released tracks or anything so i think that's just how it is, not any issue with the leak.

yeah, just an observation. it's neat! crank er up.

when are crying putting a new album out is what I want to know

Title track has the perfect sad ballad melody

i'm curious to hear these more sad/melancholy songs! i've only heard the singles so far

oh my god the title track

it is deliriously good

Should be a radio hit. Getting close to kitsch but not crossing the line thankfully.

In 1996, sure. I'm not sure I hear that song on the radio in 2020.

I do love the title track though... it's been stuck in my head today.

FINAL "home" youtube show in 49 minutes!

*"house"

*48

Entertaining fun - wish they did 'Out Of Sight.' Good on them for putting out a fine rekkid.

nz missive

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/the-side-eye/10-07-2020/the-side-eye-in-the-studio-with-the-beths/

the album art is so upsetting

God, for some reason that aaba aaab panel cracked me UP

oh damn, this is out today?

The release show at the Powerstation last night was p.fun, though a bit nerve-wracking to be in such a tightly-packed crowd for the first time since lockdown. Title track of the new album worked really well live, "I'm Not Getting Excited" was a great set-opener, and for "Dying To Believe" they dragged out Rose Matafeo and local Green MP Chlöe Swarbrick. Opener Phoebe Rings was a jazz-school-y take on Stereolab/Cocteau Twins, and had the Beths' bassist Ben guest on clarinet for a track.

They were on Radio New Zealand's mixtape yesterday; hour-long show w/some interesting digressions.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/nat-music/audio/2018754435/the-mixtape-the-beths

Che Fu - "Misty Frequencies"
Ella Fitzgerald / Oscar Peterson - "Lush Life"
Death Cab For Cutie - "The Sound of Settling"
Anthonie Tonnon - "Water Underground"
Chelsea Jade - "Lowbrow"
Lomelda - "Interstate Vision"

At long last i figured it out: Title track sounds like Camera Obscura

Something is missing :(

I'm sad to see a fairly muted reaction to the new album in general but I had a feeling it was coming. It hasn't hit me the same way Future Me Hates Me did but that album is absolutely perfect. I still have a lot of love for this.

I think I like 'em about the same in different ways. They have surprisingly distinct ~vibes~

yeah they're about equal for me with the new one having higher highs but is maybe a little less consistent

Future Me Hates Me is definitely the better record but I do love the new one a lot, even if it feels like it suffers from awkward-second-album-syndrome at times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_5uVLoiTVk

nice!

i've listened to the new one several times, and although i do think the debut was more consistent, there are still 4-5 songs on jump rope gazers that i like a bunch, and that's about on par with the debut as well. i think they're good at picking singles! but there are a couple others i also really like.

dying to believe
i'm not getting excited
mars, the god of war
out of sight
jump rope gazers

do you want me now
just shy of sure

you are a beam of light
acrid

don't go away

Played at least 10 times now. All of this hits for me. It's so sweet.

album is nice, doesn’t sing to me quite like the first one. there’s a little bit less muscle in these tunes, and the pre-release tracks are far and away the highlights.

that said, ‘dying to believe’ is one of the best songs ive ever heard in my life.

I've been connecting with the mellower tracks on this album: the title track is the clear standout, but also "just shy of sure", "you are a beam of light", and "out of sight".
That live version of "out of sight" posted this morning is better than the album version -- the musicianship really comes through, and it's got a lot more energy. That drummer is such an asset.

Same here. After initially thinking there were too many mellow songs on here, they've become my favourites. You Are A Beam Of Light is so beautiful.

Seeing these tonight. My first gig of the year

Wow. Outdoors? Or indoors?

jealous of you, but happy they're able to do a little touring. are you in Christchurch? xp

Album still on heavy rotation

this album has become my go-to sulking-during-the-pandemic soundtrack. I love it and that pitchfork review is objectively wrong

so, after considering Future Me Hates Me a top 10 album of the past decade and then being a bit underwhelmed by the new one, i have listened many more times and recognized the incredible genius and beauty of Jump Rope Gazers, and now consider this band to be arguably the best on the planet.

no one is writing melodies better than Liz. that title track, my god.

Welcome

Yeah, I saw that they placed on the tracks poll for 2020, but not for the title track!

(other favorites from the 2nd album: Just Shy of Sure, Out of Sight, You Are A Beam of Light)

so, after considering Future Me Hates Me a top 10 album of the past decade and then being a bit underwhelmed by the new one, i have listened many more times and recognized the incredible genius and beauty of Jump Rope Gazers, and now consider this band to be arguably the best on the planet.

no one is writing melodies better than Liz. that title track, my god.

― alpine static

I had that exact same experience earlier in the year. It definitely took me a few listens and yeah, they're pretty much my favourite band in the world right now. This band are special.

A friend just turned me on to Beach Bunny, who sound kinda Beths-y.

unfortunately i forgot to submit nominations for this year's track poll but i 100 per cent would have nominated the title track. it's fucking breathtaking.

Voted for the album but didn't vote on the tracks poll as wanted to vote for Out of Sight but it wasn't nominated.

Easily one of my favourite albums from last year.

A friend just turned me on to Beach Bunny, who sound kinda Beths-y.

― DJI

I mentioned them on the 2021 indie thread as the EP they just put out is fantastic. I picked up their album after seeing a few mentions of them in The Beths shoutbox on Rate Your Music.

title track on jump rope gazers is the best song ever written by anybody

"mars the god of war" is the point of the album where my brain can no longer handle how good this band is

"just shy of sure" ;_;

the beths!!!!!!

welcome :')

the truth is i didn't listen to future me hates me until it placed on the ilx year-end list.... and i did the SAME THING. AGAIN. LAST YEAR

BRAD

title track on jump rope gazers is the best song ever written by anybody

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, February 3, 2021 5:34 PM (fifty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i love these kinds of posts

I always thought this seemed like a very Brad friendly album. You Are A Beam Of Light makes me think of the ballads on After Laughter.

I should revisit the new one, often find if a record wasn't quite what I was expecting I can come back to it later and appreciate it better without all the expectations

yes you should because that's *exactly* what happened to me

listen with headphones, treasure the guitar tone, luxuriate in the background vocals, let the melodies carry you out of this world

the truth is i didn't listen to future me hates me until it placed on the ilx year-end list.... and i did the SAME THING. AGAIN. LAST YEAR

― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, February 3, 2021 6:17 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same.

This record is as great as FMHM, which I didn't think was possible.

the slowed down part in "don't go away".... pure rock power

I think I like 'em about the same in different ways. They have surprisingly distinct ~vibes~

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, July 17, 2020 10:07 PM (six months ago) bookmarkflaglink

I was right and I'm glad voters agreed

I love watching them play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lj6m0BXxRY

i'm listening again and maybe it really should have been on my ballot but this year was so stacked

This record is just 40 minutes of earworms.

It's stunning just how good they sound in that KEXP clip

I would like to read a very wonky interview about how Liz and Longhair handle songwriting, production, etc. Essentially, I would just like to know if she is a timeless, heart-stopping super-genius or if *together* they are a timeless, heart-stopping super-genius team. (No doubting or dismissing Liz implied here, to be clear.)

I would also like to know if Longhair writes his own songs and if so I would like to hear them.

was reminded by instagram that i saw them live at music hall of williamsburg two years ago today. hopefully again soon.

I remember seeing a beths interview (maybe it was their KEXP performance?) where longhair says that Liz basically runs the show.

https://www.13thfloor.co.nz/interview-elizabeth-stokes-of-the-beths/

Liz writes music and lyrics and then brings them to band who help some with arrangements.

just now listening to the new one... how is this album even possible?!

Even possible?

i can't even

'cause it's so good. sorry, I don't normally say things like that.

also I see the post above mine very clearly explains how it's possible

this is great if you want gear chatter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzJ6F1OqFDM

In other Beths news, they're apparently in middle of recording album #3, which they expect to take the rest of the year.

and they've got a new live album out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSq0KF7ZXFI

That chorus was so unexpected. Love everything about it.

These guys just don't miss.

Huh, "sitting" and "regretting" rhyme with a NZ accent.

the lyric is "setting and regretting" actually

just the defining feature of the nz accent (especially compared to aus) is the i/e swap which makes 'sitting' and 'setting' sound like the other

I just played this a bunch of times in a row. Wonder if this means an album is coming soon?

there's a new album confirmed for this year yeah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mFCNXnpnWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq9T1rJZG-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tODjXZNyId4

here's a bunch of new songs live

Silence is Golden (2nd link) - so good!

these guys are probably one of the few bands out there right now where if i hear a new album's coming soon i'm just absolutely filled with joy. this is exactly what i needed to hear

my most anticipated album of 2022, no question

"When You Know You Know" is scratching the same itch as "Out of Sight" from the last album.

+1 to this being my #1 anticipated 2022 release. Their show here got moved to a bigger venue, so the word is getting out maybe?

Had to miss their show last night to go to band practice (no regrets!). New stuff sounds great!

all heaters

squeeeee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5ZxW1r1Zc8

new reason to live/new beths album out 9/16

WHAAAAAAAAT

https://thebethsnz.bandcamp.com/album/expert-in-a-dying-field

only took one listen of "silence is golden" for me to proclaim them the greatest band of all time, guitar go brrr

omgo.gomglmgomgkmjngnn

woo

i liked the shot of the drummer "driving the car" (keeping the engines running, keeping the beat) during the solo of the guitar player (who has lost his glasses)

2022 is saved!

New album art is a marginal improvement over the last one:
Expert In A Dying Field
https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a1119979697_16.jpg

Now I just need to decide if the Spring Green vinyl is worth a dollar more than the Canary Yellow vinyl.

Looks like A Real Thing isn't on the album. Bit disappointed about that.

sign me up for this one, let's fucking go!

Long Hair cut his hair!

also: AOTY, obvs

i totally read the album title as 'expert at dying in a field' and was really feeling that sentiment tbh

wow that has to be one of their best songs

Top shelf stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KACt6YhOyY

Gorgeous

JFC this is so fucking good!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XriDeVHO8w

that was one of the most exciting narratives about bungee-jumping that i've ever seen

Liz's expression when she finally jumps is definitely something like primal panic.

*invests heavily in short-term bungee jumping stocks*

Earth's best rock band.

I was just going to write exactly that!

it's incredible what they're doing. and their relative profile ... and how big they could get if they get the right breaks. i am already worried about them getting huge and people not knowing i have loved them for years. :)

just realised they're playing here the day after the album's out, hooray

they're in North America right now and just announced they are going to tour it again in March.... and it looks like bigger venues?

siick

i don't know that I've given the last couple songs a real fair hearing yet because I'm obsessed with Silence is Golden

The title track has become a contender for my favorite song of the year. It kinda reminds me of a lyric Robert Pollard might have written at his peak.

So tickets went on sale this morning for a Beths gig in March 2023 at the 1,200 seat 930 Club in W DC @ 10 am this morning et. I signed ono to laptop early and was ready. Got a hold on sit tight message from Ticketmaster. Then tried to sign on from phone. First got same hold message but then got in on my phone, and got 2 tickets. Meanwhile at 10:04 Ticketmaster on my laptop said the show is sold out

You may want to check again, I’m seeing tickets available

I got them on my phone from Ticketmaster but for some weird reason, Ticketmaster on my laptop told me they were gone. Strange.

Album of the year

the real magic happens when they're in that middle gear: "Your Side", the title track, the last few minutes of
"2am".

Agreed. Those are my favourites. 2am is astonishing.

doesn't quite all live up to "silence is golden" but it's still very good

"2am" is really wonderful

The pitchfork review is the variety that focuses mainly on the lyrics (though not exclusively).
Which reminded me how much I wish they'd vary things a bit more, and not make every song a relationship metaphor.

"silence is golden"?

Whoa, Silence Is Golden is totally wonderful, can see why everyone was hyped if this was the first single

Ended up being easily my favourite thing on the album, mind

Well, that and the Head In The Clouds/Best Left centrepiece

i think i am too depressed to listen to the beths. i just gave the new one a good car listens and i feel like i'm 10000 planets away from where it takes place. i don't think it's them, i think i just don't want to hear this kind of music and can't relate to anything. it sounds like it should be the hit music playing in the background of a show about popular young adults

i think, in particular, the "some things are best left to rot" harmonies early on in the chorus of "best left" hit me in a really incompatible place this morning. it was very unwelcome, and felt very much like a late 90s christian band for that moment, which caused me to involuntarily shut the music off and roll down the windows. it smelled like hot tarpits outside, so i rolled the windows back up and drove home in silence after that.

i don't actually think the beths resemble a contemporary christian band, and i don't really know much about that kind of music other than what i heard from passing cars while i was doing laps in the hot tarpits back in the late 90s. this is a sweeping ignorant statement, but maybe the problem with christian music is that they can't let themselves be wrong

Agree that the "some things are best left to rot" shout-along feels like a forced crossover attempt to some other genre that I don't listen to.

But I'm finding a majority of the new songs getting stuck in my head just as much as the debut... when you know, you know.

the best stuff cuts its own swathe but there's slightly still too much of a reliance on cliched chord progressions at times imo

xps On Pitchfork lyrics/breakup focus. Hasn't Elizabeth and the tall fella been together a long while?

I'm pleased to see some less than glowing reactions. I just can't with this band... The grating harmonies, obvious chord progressions (bingo, imago) and dull lyrics rub me the wrong way. I feel like a bad Kiwi every time I hate on The Beths but seriously, I don't see the appeal.

And as for those suggesting AOTY for a catchy but soulless power pop group... in 2022? You've got to be kidding me. To be fair I've only listened to the singles, but not enough has changed to make me like them any better. They still sound like a high school rock band (albeit quite a good one) who just never moved on.

The Weezer comparisons up thread aren't entirely inapt, given Weezer just ripped off The Cars, who were huge in Aotearoa New Zealand, and surely must have influenced The Beths' songwriting. The Cars would have been everywhere on the radio when they were growing up, if their parents listened to one of the rock stations like Radio Hauraki. For some reason our tiny little colonised nation just really loves power pop, and I find it infuriating. (That said, The Cars' first record slays.)

Ok rant over. As you were...

they write good songs and play them very well

imo there’s no such thing as a cliche chord progression but ymmv

I mean, jingle writers write good songs and play them well. So if that's the bar...

is that a controversial opinion? idk, chord progressions are like sentences, they’re just building blocks, a “cliche” chord progression can be elevated by both craft and performance, which the beths have in spades

can jingle writers play their songs well? is a jingle writer as good of a drummer as the drummer for the beths? what a silly response sorry

xp Of course - I'm just saying, when they match those strengths to particularly ear-catching melodies the result is fantastic - my criticism is not meant to be a damming indictment. I enjoyed the album, but I *loved* Silence Is Golden. If I hadn't loved that song I wouldn't have bothered saying anything, just dismissed this as decently-written, technically excellent pop-rock

*damning

I agree in principle, but craft and performance isn't enough for me. There has to be a spark - a bolt of something indefinable (you know it when you hear it) - to elevate a song from competent to great. And I just don't hear that with The Beths. It's too pedestrian, safe, passionless. They're a paint by numbers pop group.

I have a theory that melodic preferences are hard-coded into us all and that they shape our musical opinions way more than anything else. I like my melodies baroque and twisty, and if not that then at least...tangy, y'know. So the main melody of say the title-track falls flat for me whereas for someone else it might be transcendent given the excellent pacing of the song (and there are a few interesting counterpoints in the second half, so I'm not ruling out it growing on me)

You may have a point imago. For me, it's harmonies. There are certain harmonies I find transcendent, and others that make me want to rip my ears off. I guess The Beths fall into the latter category for me with their vocal harmonies.

Well, as a Beths centrist, I'd say you could easily cobble together an album from their 3 records so far that I'd really like, but they're yet to quite do it in one. The musicianship alone, in a pop-rock context, will keep me trying

can jingle writers play their songs well? is a jingle writer as good of a drummer as the drummer for the beths? what a silly response sorry

― flamenco drop (BradNelson)

My point is that we expect more than just 'good songs played well' from the music we love. We want to be moved in some way. Good songs played well isn't enough. I can name so many songs that are catchy and well produced that either do nothing for me, or annoy the hell out of me. Technical competence in both songwriting and performance just isn't the bar for me.

Glad I brought some silliness to your day though ;)

I also don't feel the spark, and I find the lead vocals to be actively not-good/unpleasant (even in an "indie rock" context) - but that's obv a big YMMV.

That said, the above-discussed chorus harmonies on "Best Left" are one of the few aspects that DO connect w/me – so I'm clearly coming from a different place here

idk i’m v moved by the title track from the previous record, “jump rope gazers,” and i think this whole nebulous notion of “spark,” “being moved,” etc. is contained within my use of “craft”

i shouldn’t be surprised that there’s someone out there who thinks the beths are overrated but literally everything about your critique smacks of overstatement to me, like your problem is with power pop as a genre or something and not the band itself. they’re clearly better than a high school band

The chorus vocals in Best Left are very Trail Of Dead if anything, which I approve of

(obviously TOD are informed by religious upbringings so Christian rock is probably a mixed-feelings touchstone - whether it is here too I have no idea)

Those choruses remind me a little of one of my favorite early-2010s bands, which I think no one else here likes (but I wish they did!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpTaMrFEpBE

the title track and "2am" are wonderful. I was always meh on this band but those tracks are pretty undeniable imo

literally everything about your critique smacks of overstatement to me, like your problem is with power pop as a genre or something and not the band itself. they’re clearly better than a high school band

― flamenco drop (BradNelson)

I get that you don't like my rhetorical choices, and that's fine. I did say they sound like quite a good high school band, though! And I agree their musicianship and songwriting are very solid (perhaps not lyrically, but def musically). They just don't seem to have a broad range, like they're stuck listening to the same records they loved since they were 13.

I like me some power pop just fine. One of my favourite Kiwi acts is The Mint Chicks, who wrote some incredible power pop songs with a clear debt to The Buzzcocks (another band I enjoy, along with The Cars, Ramones and others). Is it my favourite genre? No, and mainly because it's fairly limited and thus hard to innovate in. I'm not saying innovation is the be all and end all, but little surprises certainly do help my enjoyment of music. There's not enough little surprises in The Beths to captivate me.

Silence is Golden is a pretty good tune, I'll admit.

the idea that a band that has put out tracks like "silence is golden" and "out of sight" is just making passionless paint-by-numbers power pop is ridiculous

of course they're not doing anything particularly new but the sheer craft is on another level compared to most in the genre, even contemporary indie rock more broadly

& do not at all understand where any of the complaints about the vocals are coming from

Good to see some dissenting opinions in a thread that had started to become a bit of an echo chamber for us stans.

I do agree with Brad that a lot of these critiques sound like complaints about the genre as much as complaints this specific band. Power pop isn't really a hotbed of innovation - it definitely places more value of good execution of ideas that have already been done to death. It's comfort food.

I have a hard time describing this band to ppl bcz on paper they DO seem sort of paint-by-numbers but there is a je ne sais quoi about them, the harmonies are so perfect, the melodies are so perfect, they make so many smart and efficient decisions in their songwriting and instrument playing. They’re kind of like The New Pornographers where they do something seemingly simple but they do it so fucking well that when you step back and go “wait, surely there are tons of other bands that sound like this but WHO?” you can’t come up with anything bcz no one is doing it nearly as well as they are.

otm damn

this band is the epitome of a bolt of something indefinable that elevates songs from competent to great

lol just the other day I described this band to a friend with the exact words “new zealand new pornographers”

I’m not necessarily the world’s biggest New Pornographers fan, but I’ve always thought of their songwriting as fairly sui generis.

“2am” really moved me. God damn.

I think what they do that’s hard to define (and maybe I’m still not defining it) is use the most intense sonic dynamics of punk and power pop to build drama. Not just a sense of drama; drama. And it elevates the lyrical content, like how some Motown lyrics might have looked simplistic on paper, but when that sound hits the emotion hits for your whole life (not saying they’re in Motown territory, just an example).

To me they're loosely kind of part of the continuum of everything old is new again. My brain immediately also says, hey, there are a million bands like this. And there may be, for all I know, but my brain goes there because I am old and there *did* used to be a million bands like this ... 30 years ago. A lot of the Teenbeat/Simple Machines stuff, some Sarah stuff (maybe like Heavenly), and so on, all the way through, I dunno, stuff like Dressy Bessy or whatever. Same with a band like Beach Bunny, who I also like. Of course, being from New Zealand, the Beths are part of a parallel continuum of all the great guitar pop bands from that country, too.

they are a phenomenal live band but i forgot my earplugs

opening act hans pucket, who pearce has produced for, were also excellent

Well "2am" just ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I'm going through a painful breakup right now, the "hard to let go" kind, and it hits pretty close to dead center. Pretty close.

Listened to the album 3 or 4 times yesterday, it's a really good album in the sense that almost every song is good and they work together musically and thematically. Stronger links and weaker links, sure, but they're operating at a high level of craft.

Stevie Deux otm

i have to say, as a mega-stan, i appreciate where Ghost Club is coming from with the paint-by-numbers, the lack of broad range, the "still listening to the records they loved when they were 13" comments. i don't agree w/ the conclusion, but i can at least see how those could be valid thoughts.

and i also think Stevie hit the nail on the head here: "this band is the epitome of a bolt of something indefinable that elevates songs from competent to great"

last thought: it is *highly* predictable that the backlash would begin now, with this third album coming out and getting significantly more attention. they were still a pretty small band/draw heading into the pandemic and the release of Jump Rope Gazers! they had a whole American tour booked in small rooms that got canceled, and now the venues have at least doubled in size, maybe more.

the only bad thing about the beths is that second album cover art

Is there a backlash in real life?

I woke up on a 26th side of the bed yesterday in an attempt to scientifically determine if my bed is a problem, and the album did sound better. I think it’s just really hard music to listen to when you don’t feel great, right now. I feel that way about most of their music and much of pop music in general. I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

If a bunch of people on earth feel that way and there’s a huge backlash against music with properly formed chord progressions, please send them my way. I’m that house that smells like garbage, over there

I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

Try this, KM: https://markmolnar.bandcamp.com/album/mark-molnar-saturns-son

Anyway, after a couple of listens, the album is very good! Good to see them branching out a little within the relatively narrow confines of the genre - more solos, more sonic variety, a little more harmonic complexity (thought I was hearing secondary dominants?).

I'm probably in the minority of really liking the second album cover, and not caring much for the cover of the new one. But that's mostly because I don't really like the choice of having big white text on top of a fairly bright and light looking image, and I don't like the out of focus flowers on top of fish. Whereas I as really like the shade of orange on the second cover.

Think this might be their best of the three? Chris L otm with his invocation of "drama": the band is super talented at assembling things in a way that feels exciting.

Looks like this show/tour film wasn't posted yet, it's a nice time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-JyAYfgC6c

do sund4r thanking you :D

somehow “xp” was autocorrected to “do”

I agree with Josh that there used to be more bands that give you this same feeling. I think over a long period of time, not just in music but in several of the arts, there's been a turn toward emphasizing self-expression more than craft. That is, people are more interested in getting their ideas out and creating idiosyncratic little objects rather than working in the continuum of a particular genre or tradition. This might just be a consequence of more voices being heard and seeking to break down "traditional" forms of art, or it might be something else. But The Beths seem like a group that's interested in refining the strengths of their particular genre to create an emotional impact, although I don't know whether or not they'd see it that way.

obvious chord progressions

There's not enough little surprises

thanks for proving to the board you don't have ears

There's definitely a type of listener that values innovation, and appreciates bands/albums that expand their horizons ("I don't hear anything I haven't heard before"). And for this type of listener, I can see where The Beths just aren't exciting.

It's a little harder for me to get in the headspace of someone who's repelled simply by a familiar chord progression, but I'm sure that they comprise like 50% of ILM.

I doubt there's a real life backlash. The backlash around here is pretty much me, and apparently I don't have ears.

I guess you're all wrong about Silence is Golden. I said it's a pretty good tune, so it must be rubbish.

i think it's fine to have preferences. but as Brad alluded to, you felt the need to do a patronizing bit about how this band would be a "good high school band". there's not really a need to present your criticisms as some extension of your superior, more sophisticated musical tastes. if anything, the fact that somebody might call this music "ordinary" speaks to the wizardry of the songwriting and arrangements. to me it also suggests that people who would say that wouldn't have really been listening

I woke up on a 26th side of the bed yesterday in an attempt to scientifically determine if my bed is a problem, and the album did sound better. I think it’s just really hard music to listen to when you don’t feel great, right now. I feel that way about most of their music and much of pop music in general. I only want to listen to gravel sifting through a long descending tunnel that leads to the bottom of the ocean

― Karl Malone

speaking as a fellow depressed person yeah music doesn't sound as good when i'm depressed

honestly this is the big reason i've only listened to _dots and loops_ all year, i don't _enjoy_ music, i don't enjoy _anything_, the best i can get out of a record is to hear it and say "yes! this is why life is terrible!"

which was why i liked crying when listening to "2am" and why i am listening to saturn's son right now. i am not crying but it is really painful to listen to and i don't think i deserve to listen to music that is any more melodic than this.

Xp lol budo, when did I ever claim to have "superior, more sophisticated musical tastes"?! I like some pretty basic, dumb pop music and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. This isn't a case of rockist v poptimist snobbery.

Look, I don't like The Beths; they don't move me; I don't think they're special; and I find some of their music actively irritating. That doesn't make me a snob, I just have a different take to you. If some of my rehetoric seems hyperbolic, so does some of the praise lavished on The Beths. But you don't see me getting upset at others having different opinions.

My rhetoric was aimed at the band's music. Yours is aimed at me. I find your "you're not really listening" argument insulting and condescending. I have listened, multiple times, because often music I don't get right away grows on me. Not so The Beths. Just because I hear dullness where you hear wizardry, doesn't make my opinions less valid. And it certainly shouldn't be cause for ad hominems.

I'm not judging anyone who loves The Beths, so why are you judging me so harshly for not loving then? And more importantly, why do you even care what I think?!

I'm in the not-getting-really-getting-it camp but it's more just to do with my expectations having read about jazz-schoolers-take-on-power-pop and not really getting that (at least in the way I wanted it). It's not really fair to them, the jazz school background is basically irrelevant (other than that's where they formed?) and to be honest it's probably more impressive that they're not trying to sneak in Coltrane changes or whatever.

I'm somewhat chaotic good, Imago-aligned in tastes but have a big soft spot for a certain type of early-mid-90 bands like That Dog, The Breeders, Apples in Stereo etc. so I'm definitely into the idea of someone Max Tundra-ing that style but I just don't think that's what they're going for and I don't they've ever really sold themselves that way as such.

But yeah, because it *is* quite close to something that would be my thing that the narcissism-of-small-differences gets amplified into full uncanny valley gag-reflex opining of wondering why I don't like them more. So maybe that's what's happening with other people? Otherwise, it's very easy just ignore them like 99% of all other music you're not into?

I do really like a couple of songs off the first album (Future Me Hates Me, Uptown Girl). A Passing Rain is kind of more in that specific niche and - despite it being probably the least-"clever" song - it's probably my favourite one on here.

Basically I'm more of a Whipsmart person rather than Whitechocolatespaceegg one and while they occasionally dip into the former, I think their interests are more in the latter.

What makes The Beths stand out to so many is probably a sophistication, subtlety and taste-level in dealing with the type of material they do - ie. what makes it *special* for fans - that just isn't going to be apparent to those who aren't into it in general.

i think people took issue with ghost club's critique because it was quite overstated - reading it you'd get the impression they're basically just capable of an ok weezer impression and nothing much more

Ufo, I find it interesting how my critique rubbed people the wrong way. I've read much more stinging criticism of bands on ILX, as well as mindless "band X is shit" posts, which have barely raised an eyebrow.

I don't think it was my rhetoric alone. There's something about this band that inspires a defensive loyalty - probably because they operate in a genre that appears essy to dismiss at face value, so any criticism must be met with vigorous defence.

I get it, people are taking the critique personally - as if criticism of The Beths' music amounts to criticism of their tastes, which I didn't intend. I certainly didn't anticipate my original post would cause this reaction. It's actually been pretty cool to see how fiercely protective The Beths' fans are. You have to really earn that kind of loyalty, so more power to them.

I can see where The Ghost Club is coming from and the way it was expressed was fine - frank criticism is better than treating everything cautiously and trying to preserve everyone's sensibilities (you can't).

So, I certainly like the sound and craft of the new album, at worst it's super pleasant. But I must admit their songs have a similar tone and go for similar crescendos and climaxes - and that involves some of the band's strong points (Elizabeth's voice, drums). Like going over a pleasure point over and over until it's unnerving, or like an excess of comfort. Maybe explaining some of the mood resistance to being Beths-uplifted. It does not mean they are ordinary, they're not, but that the effect they are going for is a little too narrowly perfected and can wear out through repetition ?

With that said, I'm fine with light uplifting hum-along punkish twee pop and I am not sure what else I would like them to do. It's a niche. You can always turn to another band that has coined a different tone. Like idk, Wet Leg.

I will fight and die for The Beths if there's a Wet Leg comparison on the table tbh

My main points of comparison to establish how good The Beths are would be Camera Obscura and Paramore, but maybe that only makes sense to me.

I'd say that negative criticism of any music that people are prepared to say they like on ILX has gone a little out of fashion, as people are ultra-keen to not seem like party-pooping dicks. What there is, however, is a disparity in attention paid. The Beths have crossed an unnamed Rubicon and they're now a Discoursed Band, so even if people are daring to criticise them, they're at least talking about them. I wish some of the obscure stuff I listen to gets even a slating on here, but it's tumbleweeds

Now Wet Leg I do really like! Their songs are good fun, and they don't take themselves too seriously. Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff was ballsy af. And most importantly, Angelica is a great song.

(The Beths are much better musicians though.)

So far there may be a dividing line here; Wet Leg do little for me and they have at least one song (“Oh No”) that I loathe.

'Shamelessly lifting a Bowie riff' is a great way to summarise the level of art Wet Leg are operating at, and also the panic at having to do a full album after the first single somehow went massive. At least The Beths make music.

I like the idea of "band that was not even making music somehow goes massive" and that it's imago firing shots at non-music :)

Preliminary dozen listens to this and it's "Passing Rain" lodged in my head.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that, but the Beths are the first "guitar band" to kick me square in the guts this hard since LWB (who i came to very late.. like 2015). The idea of having to think any harder on this band is honestly really intriguing to hear about.

It's not even one of my favourites on the record but who else could pull off "Knees Deep"? Honest question.

why do new bands want their drums to sound this way? it's a major league bummer for me on lots of new stuff, i still dig this but it really sucks. i guess the strokes are to blame?

god "silence is golden"...the groove is bracing enough to rival any post-hardcore act from a couple decades.

Found it interesting that the Pitchfork review compared "Silence is Golden" to Life Without Buildings. I don't hear that,

yeah i don't really hear it, maybe in the repetition in the vocals? the actual sound of the song is more like...refused?

https://butterthechildren.bandcamp.com/album/true-crime

might appeal to the beths fans, digging it

Finally saw the Beths live. Their best songs were great (strong vocals, harmonies, ) while some cuts were just ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt0J3IEYkIg

really great performance

glad they're playing "jump rope gazers" on this tour. thx for posting ufo!

New single! They left it off the album as it didn't fit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEO3vmxjoa0

Nice, I think that might be my favorite Tiny Desk since they had Koffee on.
I guess they had to skew towards mellower material given the setting, but those are their best songs anyway

Just got back from seeing them in Bristol. What a tight and thoroughly likeable band. Appalled that my compatriots couldn’t even bring themselves to pogo seeing as though it’s mainly 160bpm bangers but maybe that’s a generational thing. Definitely go catch them if you get the chance.

I was there too...loved it.

It was almost as amazing to think through what they didn't play - Not Running, Happy Unhappy, Whatever, Mars The God of War, Shy of Sure, 2AM - as to marvel at the quality of the set they actually performed. Such a strong catalogue already!

Ah Willl I didn't know they were playing. Would have been pogoing with you

They finally won a Silver Scroll (NZ's annual songwriting award) for 'Expert In A Dying Field' after being finalists for 'Future Me Hates Me' in 2018, 'Happy Unhappy' in 2019, and 'Jump Rope Gazers' in 2021 - I think if they hadn't won this year they'd equal the Phoenix Foundation's record for most nominations / zero wins.

Acceptance speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efMWxRN9H4k

Downbeat cover by Samara Alofa at the awards ceremony:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjCNyPs-ek4

(see also: jazz cover of 'Happy Unhappy' by Bella Kalolo from 2019, electro-pop cover of 'Future Me Hates Me' by French Concession from 2018, nothing from 2021 due to Covid)

Radio New Zealand interview about this song (drummer talks about listening to early 90s Kiwi pop-rock stuff like Crowded House and the Mutton Birds re: the drum sound):
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/music101/audio/2018908214/anatomy-of-a-scroll-the-beths-expert-in-a-dying-field